Military Review

Flight to combat service

104

Prepare



The crew was planned for "combat service" by a slave crew as part of a pair of Tu-16s, for aerial reconnaissance of ships at sea, in the North-Western part of the Pacific Ocean, beyond Japan, abeam Tokyo, with refueling in flight. The task is to reveal the surface situation in the route strip, the detected targets (ships, ships) were allowed to fly around with a descent.

I was the second navigator, I was accidentally scheduled to join this alien crew, I did not fly with them, I did not know the specifics. The navigator of the crew flew a graduate of the naval school, who served without enthusiasm, but with aplomb. Later, fate will bring me together with him. But that will be later, and now we are preparing for the flight.

The flight in navigational terms is not the most difficult, after leaving the Kuril Islands, the crews must take turns refueling from one tanker that will support us, then the tanker rolls home, and we go south along Japan to the Tokyo beam, descending for each detected radar target.


Route scheme

The commander refueling and flies after the leader or according to the instructions of the navigator, the second navigator - the operator of the radar station detects the targets, the navigator determines the locations of the targets and, together with the commander, builds a fly-over maneuver. The right pilot is helping the commander. These are the main tasks of the crew members.

Such flights were not something out of the ordinary, they were performed not often, but they were carried out, and preparation for the flight did not cause any problems.

The flight was planned for a duration of about six hours, in total for the remaining fuel, depending on the number of drops on the target. We were monitored by the leader of the group, all issues were discussed, and the squadron leader made a decision about our readiness for flight.

In general, nothing special.

Sortie


On the day of departure, we acted according to the worked out scheme and taxied to the preliminary start according to the plan, after the tanker and the leader. We took off in the usual order, gathered in a group and took a course to the exit point on the Kuril Islands - Cape Breskens.

An hour later, we came to Breskens and went to the point of exit into international airspace, this is about 15 minutes more.

We went to the set point, here the zone of refueling in the air began. The tanker took a position (altitude, course, speed), gave the go-ahead for the approach.

Our host was the first to go to refuel. The experienced leader refueled without any problems and rolled to the side, making room for our crew at the tanker.

Our commander led the plane to refueling. From the abrupt commands and the jerking of the plane, I realized that the commander was nervous, and he was not doing everything.

The commander walked away from the tanker, rested a little, and went to the second approach. Everything seemed to be done as it should, but ...

In general, the commander tore off the refueling hose from the tanker, we could not refuel.

They reported to the leader, stood up for him in line. The leader sent the tanker home and started thinking. Now everything depended on the decision that the leader had to make. It is impossible to disrupt the "combat service"; the fulfillment of the "combat service" is a combat mission.

Our crew cannot fly along the assigned route due to insufficient fuel supply. We can only enter "our territory" as a couple, these are the conditions for using the airspace.

A competent decision is the key to the successful completion of a combat mission. This is where the commanding qualities are manifested.

The presenter made a decision and communicated it to us on the radio:

- 324! Move 100 kilometers away from the entry point along the exit course, take the maximum duration mode with a gradual climb "over the ceilings" and wait for me. I went the route myself. Do not leave the connection.

- 324th understood, 100 kilometers in the exit course, maximum duration, flight "over the ceilings", wait, do not leave the connection.

- Understood correctly, 324!

Well, everything fell into place, the solution is ripe, brought to the fore, now we will carry out the task. Nothing difficult, we are walking in the region of the exit-entry point at the maximum duration mode, gradually gaining altitude due to the decrease in flight weight due to the use of fuel.

The area of ​​work we were "told" is large, the heights are from zero to maximum, so we leave the international routes, gain the maximum height for our weight and wait for the leader, controlling the remaining fuel. We need about 7 tons to get to the house, and another 9 tons for the spare one nearest to the house. In general, let the navigator and the commander consider and think.

How long will we wait for the host?

Yes, no one knows, but not less than two hours, based on the fuel supply. And maybe more, if the presenter decides not to leave the fuel to go to the alternate airfield. Anything can happen…

Now he will inspect the area in the radar station, determine the locations of targets, decide which ones he will descend to, and begin to work.

Time passes slowly, and fuel is produced quickly, about 5,5 tons per hour. We walk in the ocean near the Kuril Islands at a minimum speed, gradually gaining altitude, controlling the remaining fuel and periodically reporting it to the leader.

The moderator works according to the plan, accepts our reports and himself reports to us that he is continuing his work, and his place in relation to turning points.

Our EH-D radar station sees very far, at a distance of up to 400-450 kilometers, its only drawback is that it sees only in the forward sector, and at long distances the “picture” on the screen is distorted. But this is not critical, during a flight in the holding area, we sometimes turn our nose towards the Kuril Islands, and I can clarify our place. Not only I can, but I am obliged, which I do.

Something is going wrong


But the place, which I define by the islands, I do not like, something is going wrong.

In this plane, my cockpit is in the “stomach” of the plane, I sit alone and communicate with the crew only via an airplane intercom (SPU). I report my doubts to the navigator of the ship.

I have already said that this is my first time in this crew, I don't know the navigator very well, but I'm just doing my duties and nothing more:

- Navigator! According to my information, we have strongly deviated to the north ...

- What are you talking about? What data do you have there?

- I can see the islands perfectly, I understand our place, we are located much farther north than we need, and we will spend excess fuel on the flight to the meeting point.

- Stop talking nonsense! You fly here without a year for a week, so you confused the islands.

- I have not confused anything, we have deviated greatly, we must turn our nose to the Kuril Islands, determine our place and go to the given area.

- What are you teaching me? I am the navigator here, and I decide where to fly.

In general, it was not possible to achieve mutual understanding with the navigator.

I pressed the "circular" call button on the SPU and reported my opinion to the commander, with a tape recorder.

The commander's reaction was quite expected:

- We have a navigator of the crew, so let him understand, and you help him.

I didn't like all this.

I was used to the fact that in my crew they listened to the opinion of all crew members, but here there were rules, and it was not for me to alter them.

The navigator did not listen to my opinion, we continued to dodge and dodged for more than a hundred kilometers.

The presenter finished work on our remaining fuel and gave us his time of arrival at the exit point. Our task is to arrive at a given point at the same time, meet with the leader, enter through the "border" and go home.

Before setting the course to the desired point, the navigator decided to clarify our place, and then he understood everything:

- Commander, we were blown north of 150 kilometers, at the given time we will not be able to reach the point and will use up more fuel.

- The second navigator told you, why didn't you listen to him?

- Yes, I confused the islands ...

The commander asked the leader to wait for us at the entry point, and we went to the rendezvous point. They found the leader, took their place, crossed the "border", and headed home. We flew very hard, on nerves, and sat down with almost empty fuel tanks.

In general, I did not like this flight.

And I did not like this navigator, not only did he not shine with intelligence, but also turned out to be with great conceit. I didn’t fly with him anymore, but in the service I had to face it when I became the navigator of the detachment.

But with this commander I had to fly a little, already the navigator of the ship, and about one difficult flight with him, I will try to tell you later.
Author:
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  1. Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk 24 November 2021 18: 15
    +12
    Yes, Mikhail, everything is like ours, everything is like everywhere else. The human factor is called.
    Thank you for another interesting story.
    A strange way to refuel. Is modern much simpler? No?
    1. Bez 310
      24 November 2021 18: 25
      +15
      Quote: Krasnoyarsk
      Is modern much simpler?

      Yes, modern is much simpler.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 24 November 2021 19: 25
        +4
        Mikhail, thanks for the good story! In life, unfortunately, and maybe fortunately, different people come across. smile
      2. ved_med12
        ved_med12 24 November 2021 19: 32
        +4
        Wasn't there a second hose then? and now?
        1. Bez 310
          24 November 2021 19: 38
          +10
          Quote: ved_med12
          the second hose was not provided then? and now?

          Then there was no second hose.
          And now, if I am not mistaken, the Il-78 refueling station has three refueling points.
  2. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 24 November 2021 18: 22
    +10
    Thank you, Mikhail. Interesting as always. We are waiting for the continuation.
  3. bober1982
    bober1982 24 November 2021 19: 17
    0
    Good for you!
    For the first time without mentioning vodka and, for the first time, he did not call the right pilot a pravak.
    And, completely different reading.
  4. Andrey Moskvin
    Andrey Moskvin 24 November 2021 19: 17
    +4
    Mikhail, but how did they "unsubscribe" for the torn off hose, and what was the commander for that?
    1. Bez 310
      24 November 2021 19: 28
      +20
      Quote: Andrey Moskvin
      How did you "unsubscribe" for the torn off hose, and what was it to the commander?

      There was nothing.
      The refueling scheme is very complicated, anything can happen here ... Or maybe a strong gust of wind, or turbulence?
      On ordinary flights, the tanker leaves for the DZT zone near the airfield, and hangs there for 4 hours, and missile carriers approach it in turn for training couplings. Then another tanker takes off, and this is how the training goes on for the entire flight shift. As the regiment commander tore off the hose. It happens...
      When he came to the training building for debriefing, there was a wall newspaper with a caricature - an airplane with his photographic face in the commander's place, and a Zaporozhets falling into the Tatar Strait, tied with a refueling hose. It was a hint at the cost of the hose.
      1. Andrey Moskvin
        Andrey Moskvin 24 November 2021 19: 40
        +2
        That's it, I just thought about losses, thanks. hi
  5. Stepan S
    Stepan S 24 November 2021 19: 18
    +1
    Interestingly, and there are opposite cases, so that navigators from aviation would serve in the navy? I have never met such.
    1. Bez 310
      24 November 2021 19: 21
      +5
      Quote: Stepan S
      do the opposite cases happen, so that navigators from aviation would serve in the navy?

      I was told that the navigator from my school (VVVAUSH) became the chief officer of the atamokhod. True or not, I don't know ...
      1. Stepan S
        Stepan S 24 November 2021 19: 24
        +3
        But if the islands were out of the radar reach, what about navigation? Was there really no other way to double-check the place if doubts and disagreements arose?
        1. Bez 310
          24 November 2021 19: 32
          +14
          Quote: Stepan S
          if the islands were out of the radar range, what about navigation?

          It was very difficult to fly the Tu-16 at sea without a radar, but we flew and completed the tasks. It makes no sense to describe the methods of navigation without radar, they are all on the Internet, I can only say one thing - this is a very painstaking work.
          1. Stepan S
            Stepan S 24 November 2021 19: 43
            +11
            It makes no sense to describe methods of navigation without radar.

            OK, thanks. I myself am a navigator by profession, but a naval one. It's easier at sea, the speed is different. We could have missed by 10-12 miles, walking only by dead reckoning for three days, which was not at all critical. Even in the presence of receivers from three different RNS, they were used extremely rarely.
            1. Bez 310
              24 November 2021 19: 46
              +12
              Quote: Stepan S
              by number only

              So it is with us. At sea - only dead reckoning, occasionally according to RNT, but very rarely. And in the numbering, everything plays a role, even the thickness of the pencil lead.
              And now everything is simple - inertial systems, satellite navigation.
              1. Stepan S
                Stepan S 24 November 2021 19: 48
                +9
                And now everything is simple

                Now yes, freebie. I watch and envy young people. They did not even hold paper cards in their hands.
                1. Andrey VOV
                  Andrey VOV 24 November 2021 20: 19
                  +8
                  And all this garbage will fly to hell, will modern people be able to determine everything in the old fashioned way?
                  1. Bez 310
                    24 November 2021 20: 52
                    +11
                    Quote: Andrey VOV
                    Will modern people be able to define everything in the old fashioned way?

                    I doubt very much.
                    1. Product8
                      Product8 25 November 2021 00: 53
                      +3
                      Quote: Bez 310
                      I doubt very much.

                      Interestingly, the terms have changed?
                      If less young people work with IP, then it is not erased much, the terms need to be increased)))
                    2. true_rover
                      true_rover 26 November 2021 16: 26
                      +1
                      Interestingly, if you give modern officers, not only navigators, a curvimeter, they will probably be guided across the tablet screen
                      1. Akuzenka
                        Akuzenka 1 December 2021 11: 46
                        0
                        Interestingly, if you give modern officers, not only navigators, a curvimeter, they will probably be guided across the tablet screen
                        I'm afraid the words don't know it.
              2. Aag
                Aag 24 November 2021 21: 58
                +1
                Quote: Bez 310
                Quote: Stepan S
                by number only

                So it is with us. At sea - only dead reckoning, occasionally according to RNT, but very rarely. And in the numbering, everything plays a role, even the thickness of the pencil lead.
                And now everything is simple - inertial systems, satellite navigation.

                Didn't the strategists and those close to them (you) use inertial ones? hi
                1. Bez 310
                  24 November 2021 22: 08
                  +7
                  Quote: AAG
                  inertial

                  The Tu-22m2 already had an inertial and navigation complex with an on-board computer. So what? It's the same dead reckoning ...
                  1. Aag
                    Aag 24 November 2021 22: 41
                    +10
                    Quote: Bez 310
                    Quote: AAG
                    inertial

                    The Tu-22m2 already had an inertial and navigation complex with an on-board computer. So what? It's the same dead reckoning ...

                    Guys! I respect your flying community. But, I think, your work, like any other, must be ... "popularized" is not the right word ...
                    .. Everyone has their own abbreviations ... You have an on-board computer (apparently, ... a machine), we have a BTsVK (... complex) .... In ICBMs (intercontinental ballistic missiles).
                    And ... KVO (quadratic probabilistic deviation) with us, ... somehow much less (did not check)))).
                    Yes, I mean - so that interesting texts touch more people, do not frighten off with specific terms (at least - they had references to available sources).
                    Good luck on an unplowed field with such a "plow"!))) hi
                    1. Bez 310
                      24 November 2021 22: 44
                      +7
                      Quote: AAG
                      so that interesting texts are not frightened off by specific terms

                      Yes.
                      Onboard Digital Computing Machine - Onboard Digital Computing Machine.
                      1. Aag
                        Aag 24 November 2021 23: 04
                        +2
                        Quote: Bez 310
                        Quote: AAG
                        so that interesting texts are not frightened off by specific terms

                        Yes.
                        Onboard Digital Computing Machine - Onboard Digital Computing Machine.

                        So where do such errors come from?
                        How many ICBMs were there in the Soviet Union? And air strategists? MA missile carriers? ../
                        Not a claim (!) ... - a question for you; your opinion, was there not enough space for an adequate gyroscope?
                        ... Really tried to use slide rule (and the skill of navigators to promote the topic?) ...
                        I do not presume to judge the cost of the gyroscope .... But, if it was damaged, we were threatened with an amount of 220 sput (approximately, 1990-1995 .... without taking into account the multiplicity ...))). hi
                      2. Product8
                        Product8 24 November 2021 23: 15
                        +4
                        Accelerometer.
                        Probably because everything is too fast. Until I realized this accuracy, I slipped a couple of kilometers.
                        Kamchatka Tu-16Rs were returning back with a residual of hundreds of kilometers. Wind, but how to define it over the sea?
                        Although there were curiosities in the literature.
                      3. Aag
                        Aag 24 November 2021 23: 30
                        0
                        Well, accelerometers are installed in three planes, duplicated (at least) ...
                        "... quickly ..." what? Tu-16 faster than "Pioneer"? (about the same times in service) ...
                      4. Bez 310
                        25 November 2021 07: 45
                        +4
                        Quote: AAG
                        So where do such errors come from?

                        I’m telling you about the flight on the Tu-16, there is only a gyrocompass GPK. But the navigation complex on the Tu-22m2 also needed correction, because the inertial system is one of the first, and errors also accumulated.
                        And the most important thing is the influence of the wind.
                      5. Vale2000
                        Vale2000 25 November 2021 08: 53
                        -2
                        Quote: Bez 310
                        And the most important thing is the influence of the wind.

                        Well, yes, the same Ni-50 without DISS is nothing ...
            2. Product8
              Product8 24 November 2021 20: 19
              +3
              Quote: Stepan S
              I myself am a navigator by profession, but a naval one. It's easier at sea, the speed is different.


              This sometimes let down the naval commanders.
              There is no reason to doubt, but .....
              After reading, I thought, eprst .... This admiral has been in command of the fleet for 5 years (from 1974 to 1983) and does not know the capabilities of his main intelligence, aviation. What then to talk about? They were going to destroy the aircraft carriers.
              "I have already told here how once (1979) Khovrin raised an alarm for our regiment, which had just relocated due to the repair of our Saki runway to Oktyabrskoye ... And when Admiral Khovrin, after rather miserable indicators of the regiment's actions on alarm aircraft have not arrived yet), began to raise our crews with the question, - "Your actions to carry out reconnaissance according to the combat packages on board" ..? .., then I saw how very nervous Voronov was (after all, he was the Commander of the Black Sea Fleet Air Force and directly obeyed Khovrin, who was blaming us) ... And Khovrin raised two crews (commanders with navigators) and cut off the reports of both with indignation incomprehensible to us ... Then he lifted me and the navigator and also cut off my report with an appeal to Voronov, - “Are they with you, are they all drunk or what?” His claims and indignation were not clear and this made it somehow alarming ... but even I was not so much afraid of Khovrin and was not so worried and did not curry favor with him, how Voronov did it ... and thank God that there was a kind of relaxation, when I decided to once again (and louder) report to Khovrin the simplest calculation - "The distance along the main orthodrome to the Adriatic Sea is 2000 km, the flight speed is 1000 km. hour., the time of arrival in the area is 2 hours. "... Khovrin began to whisper with his escorts and was surprised ... that we (aviation) could arrive so quickly in the area where they (sailors) arrive only a few days later ... And then I saw - how relieved at Voronov's ... He was completely lit up with joy that everything was so easy and fun, and no one was punished ... "
              1. bober1982
                bober1982 24 November 2021 21: 12
                -5
                Quote: Product8
                And then I saw - how relieved Voronov ...

                Confused somehow, plainly and it is not clear what's what.
                This is all because you had such things in the naval aviation that you were commanded by the naval ones - this is not worse, there were a lot of fools from them.
                1. Aag
                  Aag 24 November 2021 22: 07
                  +2
                  Quote: bober1982
                  Quote: Product8
                  And then I saw - how relieved Voronov ...

                  Confused somehow, plainly and it is not clear what's what.
                  This is all because you had such things in the naval aviation that you were commanded by the naval ones - this is not worse, there were a lot of fools from them.

                  Not being attached to MA, PLO, air defense, (figuratively, - to other types, genera of the Armed Forces), the phenomenon seemed to be (I hope), systemic ... tyrants, careerists - were present ... (((
                  ... If anything, the Strategic Missile Forces. hi
                  1. Product8
                    Product8 24 November 2021 22: 44
                    +3
                    Quote: AAG
                    Tyrant, careerists - were present ..

                    About political workers)))
                    The dej was sitting at the headquarters of the flotilla.
                    Arrived cap three with his family in Bechevinka, a submariner, to replace.
                    The Alonka went there twice a week.
                    He has to wait a couple of days, wife, children, suitcases.
                    I turned to the PMC to / a Arinochkin.
                    He can be seen on a date, evening, on the phone to him, "The Lord God will help you."
                    He is in shock .... I begged the operational UAZ, took him to the MIS hotel on Ryabikovka ... somehow they settled.
                    1. Very kind
                      Very kind 2 December 2021 10: 53
                      +1
                      Quote: Product8
                      The dej was sitting at the headquarters of the flotilla.

                      by the way, tell GBshny snitch how did you end up there
                  2. 76SSSR
                    76SSSR 24 November 2021 23: 16
                    +6
                    Quote: AAG
                    Tyrant, careerists - were present ... (((

                    Yes, there are enough tyrants everywhere, even among the sappers. I knew one such person, however, he was lucky - he was born in a Kevlar shirt, not otherwise. He refuted at least three times the unwritten law that the sapper was wrong once.
                    1. Aag
                      Aag 24 November 2021 23: 36
                      +7
                      Quote: 76SSSR
                      Quote: AAG
                      Tyrant, careerists - were present ... (((

                      Yes, there are enough tyrants everywhere, even among the sappers. I knew one such person, however, he was lucky - he was born in a Kevlar shirt, not otherwise. He refuted at least three times the unwritten law that the sapper was wrong once.

                      And, the most offensive thing (although, not in our years to be offended, or even, seek justice ...), for some it has punctured all their life (service), and for others, I have never forgiven. (((
          2. Pentakl
            Pentakl 24 November 2021 21: 21
            +1
            And radio beacons don't help? I do not know at what range they are accepted, but also an option.
            1. Product8
              Product8 24 November 2021 22: 54
              +1
              Quote: Pentakl
              And radio beacons don't help? I do not know at what range they are accepted, but also an option.

              Were. It is unclear who stole from whom, but first there was "Omega", then "Silicon". I did not use it, the maps are interesting there, there is nothing for a color blind person to do)))
            2. Bez 310
              25 November 2021 07: 50
              +4
              Quote: Pentakl
              And radio beacons don't help?

              There were radio beacons, but they are very difficult to use and the accuracy is extremely low.
              1. Pentakl
                Pentakl 25 November 2021 22: 20
                0
                I have long wanted to ask, did you have a gyrocompass? They were on merchant ships, but weighed hundreds of kilograms. Maybe something has changed now.
                1. Bez 310
                  25 November 2021 22: 23
                  +4
                  Quote: Pentakl
                  Did you have a gyrocompass?

                  Gyro-compass GPK-52 is the main heading device on the Tu-16.

                  The magnetic heading was determined by the GIK-1 (gyro-induction compass), then the desired course was set on the GPC, usually a conditional one, and so the flight was carried out.
                  1. Pentakl
                    Pentakl 25 November 2021 22: 38
                    +1
                    Thanks for the answer! I looked at the pictures, the device is not for hundreds of kg, up to a maximum of 10.
                    It is unclear why such hefty things are put on ships. And why is it a "half-compass", does it show a course in all 360 degrees?
                    1. Vale2000
                      Vale2000 25 November 2021 23: 13
                      +1
                      Quote: Pentakl
                      And why is it a "half-compass", does it show a course in all 360 degrees?

                      This is not a course system, the GPC cannot independently measure the course as an angular value. It does not have an induction sensor, that is, it has half the capabilities of the course system.
                      It seems so from memory.
      2. bobwings
        bobwings 24 November 2021 20: 34
        0
        Is VLEK easier for navigators than for pilots or is it the same?
        1. Bez 310
          24 November 2021 20: 42
          +4
          Quote: bobwings
          Is VLEK easier for navigators than for pilots or is it the same?

          I don't know what the difference is ...
          In principle, we always walked together.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. Andrey NM
        Andrey NM 28 November 2021 11: 02
        0
        I have acquaintances guys, graduates of the Higher Naval School of diving. They were sent to the orders of the headquarters of the fleet, and then to the regiment of Tu-16 missile carriers. Two by hook or by crook were able to escape to the boats, and one flew like that until the "carcasses" were written off. He retired to the reserve and flew as a navigator on the Tu-154, when they were also written off, retrained and now he is already flying a Boeing as a commander. In general, I have two such familiar retrained navigators, but the second is a civilian. They were retrained in St. Petersburg.
    2. RaDeVl
      RaDeVl 25 November 2021 05: 51
      +3
      Hello. All sorts of cases happen. In the helicopter regiments of MA there were a lot of navigators-operators, graduates of naval schools, and a familiar soldier served in Polyarny on a diesel engine, I think, in War Unit 2.
  6. Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 24 November 2021 19: 31
    +5
    Michael, you are probably the most widely read author today, keep it up! thanks
    1. Bez 310
      24 November 2021 19: 36
      +13
      Quote: Ryaruav
      most read author

      Nea ...
      Perhaps the most interesting for a certain circle of readers.
      1. Stepan S
        Stepan S 24 November 2021 19: 46
        +8
        Perhaps the most interesting for a certain circle of readers

        You have occupied a literary niche, there is no competition in it, and there is no need to argue to the point of hoarseness, and there is no politics for the minus. And the stories about the service without embellishment and not in the style of "Battle Leaf" are very interesting to read.
      2. Undecim
        Undecim 24 November 2021 20: 19
        +2
        Perhaps the most interesting for a certain circle of readers.

        Especially for Castoridae Hemprich.
        1. Bez 310
          24 November 2021 20: 33
          +3
          Quote: Undecim
          for Castoridae Hemprich

          For him, this is something dear ...
  7. 76SSSR
    76SSSR 24 November 2021 19: 37
    +3
    Quote: Bez 310
    if the presenter decides not to leave the fuel to go to the alternate airfield.

    What does it mean to decide not to leave? And what force majeure happens, to sit in an open field? And there was some directive com. av. Navy determining minimum emergency fuel residues?
    1. Bez 310
      24 November 2021 19: 41
      +5
      Quote: 76SSSR
      What does it mean to decide not to leave?

      What the commander decides, we will do. We are military ...
      You can leave fuel only for the nearest spare, it is possible for passing ones, or it is possible and only with landing on your own.
    2. bober1982
      bober1982 24 November 2021 19: 44
      -2
      Each type of aircraft had its own emergency fuel balance; for landing below this balance, they were severely punished.
      This remainder was not defined by directives.
      1. Bez 310
        24 November 2021 19: 52
        +7
        Quote: bober1982
        , for landing below this remainder - severely punished.

        There were cases on the Tu-22m2 when the engines were turned off during the run due to lack of fuel.
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 24 November 2021 19: 54
          +2
          Quote: Bez 310
          There were cases on

          Everyone had such cases and, for that there were reasons, either out of stupidity, or there was simply nowhere to go.
        2. Product8
          Product8 24 November 2021 20: 28
          +5
          Quote: Bez 310
          There were cases on the Tu-22m2 when the engines were turned off during the run due to lack of fuel.

          Bulo from co-twigs.
          The nose rose, they could not steer.
          This is me about the Saki boards.
          1. Bez 310
            24 November 2021 20: 34
            +6
            Quote: Product8
            This is me about the Saki boards.

            And we also had it when they fell in Pereyaslovka and Khabarovsk.
            And the hose was torn off by Ivan D.
            1. Product8
              Product8 24 November 2021 21: 04
              +6
              Quote: Bez 310
              And the hose was torn off by Ivan D.

              )))
              For some reason I’m not surprised.
              Although he then went along the headquarters line and transferred to the west of the NSh.
              "If you beat the hare for a long time, it will light matches" (c)
            2. 76SSSR
              76SSSR 24 November 2021 21: 15
              +5
              Quote: Bez 310
              And the hose was torn off by Ivan D.

              The last name can not be hidden, he is a fairly well-known person here.)
    3. Product8
      Product8 24 November 2021 21: 19
      +7
      Quote: 76SSSR
      What does it mean to decide not to leave? And what force majeure happens, to sit in an open field? And there was some directive com. av. Navy determining minimum emergency fuel residues?

      There was a case. The senior navigator of the regiment, Bato Ochirovich, kept the crew at Lopatka, to transfer contact with the IPL.
      It seems that everyone calculated, but ...
      A colleague, now deceased, Borya Prusov told the story.
      "They gave the contact already when they left the area.
      On the way, red lights came on - 'Emergency residue'. The old and experienced pravak Vitya Malyutin insisted on a high approach, above the glide path, so that there was a reserve of altitude.
      Navigator Sanya Burshtein has clearly calculated everything according to fuel, let's sit down ...
      The first engine stopped at the approach to the DPRM (Far Driving Radio Beacon), four kilometers from the runway end. The second stood over the BPRM.
      There are a lot of people in the operational room, everyone is looking out. And the Head of the Political Department - Yes, he sits down without engines.
      And precisely, 'from behind the forest, from behind the mountains ..' a plane quietly emerges and rolls along the strip.
      , still a minute, and we would have collected the wreckage.
      The crew calculated everything clearly, they did not take into account one thing. Airplane fuel tanks were seldom run out to zero, and almost never. And here the bottom oily mucus clogged the filters. After the showdown, the technicians pumped out another 700 liters of fuel from the tanks, which takes 15-20 minutes for the flight. So the calculation was correct.
      During the investigation of the prerequisite, Bato played a little foolishly with rigging the documentation, for which he was removed from his post along with the deputy regiment commander for security.
      Borya, at first was torn out as a March cat by the aviation commander. Then, after the end of the investigation, he was treated kindly and sent on a business trip, to drive the plane to the plant in Yevpatoria. This was considered a reward.
      Political workers put their hands on the removal from office. The argument is now not a war and we cannot risk people. "
      1. Vale2000
        Vale2000 26 November 2021 17: 01
        -2
        Quote: Product8
        The senior navigator of the regiment, Bato Ochirovich, kept the crew at Lopatka, to transfer contact with the IPL.

        In general, Namoguruev was a phenomenon.
        I remember his story with the destruction of combat packages by a secretary. As he proved to the special officer Mokrushin (former navigator) where he took the tracing paper and the schedule of the deployment routes of the 2nd flotilla in the war.
        This is all I mean, which navigators are smart)))
        https://valcat-8.livejournal.com/7958.html
  8. Des
    Des 24 November 2021 20: 05
    +3
    Thanks for the story. Nice to read a normal syllable and sound reasoning. I did not expect it - the transfer of fuel through the hose "from wing to wing".
  9. Product8
    Product8 24 November 2021 20: 09
    +9
    Can then make a topic about rewards?
    It is also interesting who has pigs, who has geese, pikes.

    1. 76SSSR
      76SSSR 24 November 2021 20: 14
      +4
      Quote: Product8
      Can then make a topic about rewards?
      It is also interesting who has pigs, who has geese, pikes.

      By the way, somewhere I saw that in MA, too, piglets were brought to the side, if I don't drink something, of course. Have they taken over from the submariners? In the photo, too, a pig? Chet can't see well.
      1. Product8
        Product8 24 November 2021 20: 46
        +8
        Quote: 76SSSR
        By the way, somewhere I saw that in MA, too, piglets were brought to the side, if I don't drink something, of course. Have they taken over from the submariners? In the photo, too, a pig? Chet can't see well.

        I had one on this topic, there is a photo of the BEZovsky pig.
        "Piglet, piglet, piglet"
        http://samlib.ru/s/semenow_aleksandr_sergeewich333/porosionokru.shtml


        But it is better that the author himself tell.
        1. 76SSSR
          76SSSR 24 November 2021 20: 53
          +3
          Quote: Product8
          But it is better that the author himself tell.

          Yes, but at the same time he will tell you how Voroshilov got there.)
          1. Vale2000
            Vale2000 25 November 2021 17: 41
            -1
            Quote: 76SSSR
            Yes, but at the same time he will tell you how Voroshilov got there.)

            It's not with him, it's in the story.
            Well, like a tradition .... well, of course, Ovechkin is best described.
            Where can I (((
    2. Bez 310
      24 November 2021 20: 36
      +11
      Quote: Product8
      about incentives?

      Yes, there is nothing to tell ...
    3. Product8
      Product8 24 November 2021 20: 38
      +6
      Quote: Product8
      Interesting too

      Maybe then what changed?
      After the discovery of IPL, we have everything on kicks and on mats. Run to the operational, prepare a report, the OD of the Stem on the phone, everyone yells, then you will eat, etc.
  10. Product8
    Product8 24 November 2021 20: 12
    +2
    We walk in the ocean near the Kuril Islands at a minimum speed, gradually gaining altitude

    For non-aviation readers, why climb gradually? )))
    1. 76SSSR
      76SSSR 24 November 2021 20: 20
      +3
      Quote: Product8
      Why climb gradually? )))

      Fuel economy comes to mind.
      1. Product8
        Product8 24 November 2021 20: 25
        +5
        Quote: 76SSSR
        Fuel economy comes to mind.

        Well, this is understandable, I'm talking about the process itself ... well, it will be interesting.
    2. Undecim
      Undecim 24 November 2021 20: 21
      +7
      For non-aviation readers, why climb gradually? )))

      From readers not from aviation - probably, so that later there was something to lose gradually.
      1. Product8
        Product8 24 November 2021 20: 23
        +4
        Quote: Undecim
        From readers not from aviation - probably, so that later there was something to lose.

        Hmm ..... This is my recommendation.
        Let there be intrigue.)))
      2. Undecim
        Undecim 24 November 2021 20: 23
        +6
        Oh, some kind of aviator has already noted a minus. Free hunter?
    3. Bez 310
      24 November 2021 20: 39
      +9
      Quote: Product8
      Why climb gradually?

      The maximum height (ceiling) depends on the weight and the weight depends on the fuel output. Fuel depletes, weight decreases, ceiling increases. The higher the altitude, the lower the fuel consumption.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Bez 310
          24 November 2021 21: 16
          +5
          Quote: Product8
          with schedule

          Here is the instruction to the crew.
          1. Product8
            Product8 24 November 2021 21: 27
            +4
            Quote: Bez 310
            Here

            I wanted with a beautiful picture)))
        2. 76SSSR
          76SSSR 24 November 2021 21: 27
          0
          Quote: Product8
          I thought with ISHR

          Were any automated systems used during the ISHR? Now with this, I think it is easier.
          1. Bez 310
            24 November 2021 21: 34
            +5
            Quote: 76SSSR
            Any automated systems were used during the ISHR

            We all did it hand-to-hand, and now there are many specialized programs.
          2. bober1982
            bober1982 24 November 2021 21: 36
            +1
            Manually counted, on the ruler, what other systems.
          3. Product8
            Product8 24 November 2021 21: 45
            0
            Quote: 76SSSR
            Now with this, I think it is easier.

            The program is special.
            But I still had to write.
            At one time they were allowed to print, but then by hand, on a letterhead. In principle, correct, the matter is serious.
          4. Product8
            Product8 24 November 2021 21: 55
            +4
            Quote: 76SSSR
            when conducting IShR

            Execution.
            Collected at one time, as it was.
            In MA, YES, IA, SHA, etc.
            That's interesting.
  11. Product8
    Product8 24 November 2021 21: 41
    +7
    Did the incredible enemy help?
    Once "Orion" brought us to AVM ....
    Day off, they are raised and everyone is in "anguish and anxiety."
    The sooner we find them, the sooner their alarm will be removed.
  12. Vadim Zhivov
    Vadim Zhivov 25 November 2021 00: 06
    +2
    Thanks to all !!! Very interesting !!! hi
  13. konstantin77
    konstantin77 25 November 2021 00: 10
    0
    Quote: Bez 310
    Quote: Stepan S
    do the opposite cases happen, so that navigators from aviation would serve in the navy?

    I was told that the navigator from my school (VVVAUSH) became the chief officer of the atamokhod. True or not, I don't know ...

    With all due respect, a grain of doubt .... The nuance of service on ships (boats) is the following - any naval officer, primarily a naval officer of the corresponding profile - conditionally tactical and navigational (navigator, weapons specialists, including radio-electronic) or ship-mechanical (power engineers, electricians, ACS specialists), and only then he is a navigator, signalman, acoustician, mechanic, etc. At the same time, a navigator, in order to become a chief officer, must pass through the position of an assistant, who is an officer of the watch at sea, and in order to close the record for an officer of the watch, besides ship navigation, one must firmly know a very large heap of information - weapons, general ship systems, nuclear and radiation safety, and study and it is almost impossible to pass all this without being a graduate of the naval school. At least, I have never met a graduate of a non-naval school serving as a naval officer on a submarine (with the exception of doctors and political officers). Rather, I heard about one such case, a man by profession was a specialist in a land air defense system, somehow miraculously got on a boat, but did not stay long, went to the special department. And in general, I was very surprised when I read here that it turns out that graduates of naval schools are appointed navigators on airplanes ... it seemed that an aviation navigator should be able to control an airplane as a pilot, at least in the very first approximation, i.e. be primarily an aviator.
    1. Product8
      Product8 25 November 2021 00: 43
      -1
      Quote: konstantin77
      appropriate naval officer

      Naturally, there is a lot of specifics in the school.
      The same nodes, a boat, exits through the TA during rescue, etc., seem to be not very necessary, but this is what creates a naval officer.
      Each has its own specifics. Found in the papers.
      But each admission is the passing of tests. And how to pass them if there is no basic knowledge?
      1. konstantin77
        konstantin77 25 November 2021 20: 54
        +2
        In yes by the way, the construction of a boat and knitting of knots is the last thing a modern naval officer needs to know, at least a submariner ... it is much more important to be able to fluently read circuit diagrams and generally understand physics ... in a modern fleet, I think as in aviation, technology is EVERYTHING and the solution of all combat missions, it is, in fact, a set of solutions to technical problems
        1. Vale2000
          Vale2000 25 November 2021 21: 23
          -2
          Quote: konstantin77
          boat construction and knitting is the last thing a modern naval officer needs to know

          Don't tell me ... command a rescue party on a lifeboat, knit insurance and train personnel.
          Known cases, washed away by a wave when mooring.
          Sobolev had and taught the midshipmen dancing. Who bothered?
          And now you are reading some, I will not name, naval officers on the site ... it's just a shame.
          1. konstantin77
            konstantin77 25 November 2021 23: 47
            +2
            recourse and where do you think this emergency party should sail on the boat? the emergency party is introduced into the emergency compartment of its own ship. Delivery of an emergency consignment to an emergency ship from other ships is carried out, as a rule, in the event of an accident at the base. At sea, such a possibility is complicated, but in extreme cases it is still more convenient to deliver it by helicopter or a rescue tug, but not by a YAL-6 type boat, because when the sea is roughly 2-3 points, it is rather difficult to disembark an emergency party from a boat on an emergency ship. task. Boats in a modern fleet are needed to chill the cadets, and in the base, the side of the ship is also needed to touch up, or to change the burned-out navigation light.
            1. konstantin77
              konstantin77 25 November 2021 23: 53
              +2
              mooring is carried out by specially trained personnel - the stern and bow mooring parties and most of the officers and midshipmen of the ship have no special relation to their activities. And to avoid being washed overboard, the mooring crews are fastened to a special device with the help of rescue belts and special cables, absolutely without using any knots; it is prohibited to find unfastened personnel on the upper deck of a submarine at sea.
              1. Vale2000
                Vale2000 26 November 2021 00: 57
                -1
                Quote: konstantin77
                mooring is done by specially trained personnel

                Yes. And who trains the personnel?
                School graduates. And if a lieutenant came to the ship without studying it at the school, what can he teach the subordinate personnel?
                Emergency assistance is provided everywhere. There is no helicopter, for example.
                Why does a graduate of the school have a certificate for the right to independently manage a rowing and sailing boat? Girls to roll?
                Marine knots can be used in a variety of ways. If a boat is not needed, nodes are not needed ... then why draw a map in aviation? There is a navigator.
                Once posted, a classmate sent, the fight against pirates. P. Veliky in 2008.
                Who operates the landing craft? Almost the same emergency batch.
                Only on board seconded MPs.

                https://valcat-8.livejournal.com/33531.html
                1. konstantin77
                  konstantin77 26 November 2021 01: 51
                  0
                  Dear Valais, everyone. what you say is fair enough. And a naval officer, just like an aviation or land officer, should ideally know and be able to do a lot - to be controlled by a boat, to shoot from an anti-tank grenade launcher, and to knit all kinds of knots. soldier , and to know foreign languages, and to waltz, and to pack a parachute to be able to then use it ..... This is all so, only ideally ..... From my own experience, and I served in the Navy for 14 years, incl. 9 officer, XNUMX years automation engineer. and three years as the commander of the electrical division of a nuclear submarine, and the most "running", I would say the "red" crew, I never had to control the boat or knot knots, and in my hands I was holding not a grenade launcher with a parachute, but a portable megohmmeter , a tester, an electronic voltmeter and a key for removing electronic modules from the racks .... and so the vast majority of naval officers, taking into account their specifics, of course. The same navigator, in addition to the instruments I have indicated, holds in his luxury hands, perhaps, that a parallel and officer's ruler, as well as a mechanical pencil with a thin lead, and has a very indirect idea of ​​boats.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. konstantin77
                    konstantin77 26 November 2021 02: 08
                    0
                    and, by the way, somewhere between 2006-2008, young officers who knew what an "officer's ball" was, went to school on long hikes and so on, but in real practice they had no idea how to measure electrical insulation resistance and how to carry out an elementary test control, i.e. that for which EXACTLY they are intended on the ship, and their peers, young navigators, confused the concept of "bearing" with "course angle". The modern army, aviation, navy, too high-tech structures, in which only narrow specialists with deep knowledge can work effectively ... and boats, sea nodes, salt spray of the ocean, volleys of guns sparkling in the sun and other romance unfortunately remained behind the era of the early 20th century.
                  3. Vale2000
                    Vale2000 26 November 2021 08: 02
                    -1
                    Quote: konstantin77
                    should ideally know a lot

                    Who is the doctor to whom?
                    At the school I liked working with the BTs-63 (Astroorientator), on night flights at the workplace where it was installed, I was constantly sitting.
                    Nobody from the department liked him. A lot of additional knowledge was required.
                    But on release did not get on the planes where it is installed.
                    He disliked resistance to materials, theoretical mechanics, although he was fond of bomb-sight devices, from "Norden" to OPB-15.
                    It didn't work for me.
                    In retirement, some pilots master yachts and go on them, some sailors are fond of hang gliders.
                    The craving for learning new things and development is a natural striving.
                    And useful, not useful, it's like in life. Like Konetsky, about a midshipman who, on a dare, ate a tarpaulin and gnawed a shkert when he was drowning. )))
  14. Stas157
    Stas157 25 November 2021 05: 11
    0
    ... The commander's reaction was quite expected:

    - We have a navigator of the crew, so let him figure it out

    And why is there a second navigator in the crew at all, if no one is listening to him? Two times the second navigator signals an error. And no one perceives it!
    Strange reaction. It turns out that the commander has absolutely no control over the situation. Having received a signal about an error, instead of rechecking, shifts all responsibility to the inadequate navigator. And on this he calms down.
    This does not lead to good.
    1. Bez 310
      25 November 2021 07: 54
      +4
      Quote: Stas157
      Why is there a second navigator in the crew at all,

      Why is there a second navigator in the crew, I have already told in a separate article.
      Quote: Stas157
      the commander has absolutely no control over the situation

      Here the commander can be understood, he is worried about the breakage of the hose, is engaged in "self-criticism".
      And I must say frankly - the commander of the crew does not know the place of the plane, well, only roughly.
      1. Vale2000
        Vale2000 25 November 2021 09: 07
        -1
        Quote: Bez 310
        And I must say frankly - the commander of the crew does not know the place of the plane, well, only roughly.

        There are different types.
        He knew one of them and conducted a production planner for himself, so as not to get confused with tactical numbers.
        Photo from video. And the one I'm talking about on the Be-12 flew. Valera Biryukov.
      2. 76SSSR
        76SSSR 25 November 2021 10: 11
        +1
        Quote: Bez 310
        And I must say frankly - the commander of the crew does not know the place of the plane, well, only roughly.

        That is why the commander had to listen to the second navigator and give the navigator the order to double-check your position. The commander of any crew must listen to the opinion of all its members. If the commander himself can evaluate the opinion, then he evaluates himself, if not, he gives the appropriate order according to the "profile".
        1. Bez 310
          25 November 2021 10: 29
          +3
          Quote: 76SSSR
          the commander should have

          All commanders are different, and guessing what's on his mind is a thankless task. Here the commander sits, worries that he has torn off the hose, now he is dangling like ... ballast, and then he gets into trouble with his troubles ... There is a navigator, so let him figure it out, there is nothing to stop the commander from recalling the refueling process for the hundredth time, and come up with a normal excuse.