Military Review

Pacific Fleet: A Stick That Must Become a Cudgel

265

Photo: mil.ru


Let's start from afar. Unfortunately, Russia has four fleet... Four sticks, which are almost impossible to turn into one club.

The Baltic Fleet


Locked in the eastern part of the Baltic Sea and representing nothing like a combat formation. The point is not in the quantitative or qualitative composition of the fleet, but in the fact that the region has very strong fleets of NATO countries. And since we are not talking about the destruction of the whole world, then in a local conflict, the combined fleets of Germany, Denmark and Norway will not leave the Baltic Fleet any chance. He, as well as in the First and Second World Wars, is doomed to be locked in the Gulf of Finland and represent a target. But the KBF is capable of snapping back. And plus the Baltica is quite normally shot from coast to coast with modern cruise missiles. So it's a suicide club for everyone involved.

Black Sea Fleet

Not as sad as in the Baltic, of course there is more room for maneuver. However, NATO's forces here, too, far exceed anything that the Black Sea Fleet can oppose to the enemy. The Turkish fleet is strong enough, and if colleagues in the block from the Mediterranean catch up ... But the Black Sea is a unique formation. And while all the enemy ships will overcome the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles, our missilemen will have a very excellent opportunity to build a dam in the straits.

Northern Fleet


Quite an impressive striking fist, but little use for it. Apart from US submarines, which from time to time hang out under the ice, we have no enemy in the North. Simply because potential ships do not have ships capable of operating in ice. On the other hand, the transfer of ships from the North to any region of the world takes so much time that it is worth remembering the "combat" campaign of "Admiral Kuznetsov" to the shores of Syria. And to estimate whether the ships of the Northern Fleet will have a chance to come to the aid of someone. In fact, no, there will simply not be a chance to make the transition in wartime. NATO is everywhere with all the ensuing consequences.

Pacific Fleet



Source: voennoedelo.com

And here there are very interesting options for the development of events of a non-apocalyptic nature. And now we will turn our eyes to the Far East.

It is there that we have serious territorial claims in the form of the Kuriles. The Japanese consider these islands to be their own, with all the ensuing consequences.

It is generally worth making a small digression here. The fact is that shortly before sitting down for these reflections, I had plenty of food on Japanese naval sites. The Japanese have been obsessed with their navy since the days of rowing ships, and I just keep quiet about battleships and cruisers.

So, the Japanese view of the events of 1945 is very different from ours. And this is logical, they have a different mentality. It would seem that the USSR joined the war at the final stage, did not burn Tokyo and other cities, did not drop atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But no. Everything looks a little different from the Japanese point of view.

Japan arranged Pearl Harbor for the Americans without declaring war. The Americans staged a war on them and Hiroshima in return. The Japanese here do not look very good in their eyes, because no one there expresses any special claims for the bombing today. It seems like they got what they deserved and are to blame.

And with regard to Russia, which is the successor of the Soviet Union, the view is somewhat different. We had a non-aggression pact, which the Japanese (oddly enough) adhered to. It's hard to say why this happened, I think, they wanted to act for sure, plus Khalkhin-Gol and Khasan did their job. But that winter of 1941, they could have hit. And how everything would turn then is very difficult to say. But in December 1941, Japan knocked the Americans off their feet, and история developed like this.

But in 1945, the Soviet Union denounced the treaty and immediately went on the offensive, scattering the Kwantung Army and liberating Mongolia and part of China. Well, taking back his own in the form of Sakhalin and the Kuriles. The winners, you know, always take their toll, what claims can there be?

But the Japanese have their own opinion. For the most part, they believe that the denunciation of the treaty and the attack of the Soviet Union on Japan is about the same thing as Japan's attack on the United States without a declaration of war.

That is why in Japan they seriously dream of the moment when historical justice regarding the Kuriles will be corrected. There are specialized media such as the "Shukan Gendai" magazine, which constantly stir up interest in the topic, although what can I say, it has not cooled down for the last 30 years.

It is clear that in Japan, which was recovered for US dollars, the attitude towards the United States is quite respectful. Let's just say that the country is entirely focused on America. This is fine. This is, in principle, an internal affair of the Japanese. Forgiven Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tokyo, Kyoto and dozens of other cities burned by phosphorus bombs - their own business, isn't it?

Bad views to the north, towards Russia - are experienced.

But - the Kuriles.


Of course, there is nothing of value in these patches of land. Yes, no matter what they say there, about the extraction of fish, minerals and other legends - the Kuril Islands have such backyards of the empire that it is difficult for a normal person to imagine. The real economic value of the islands is zero, because there is nothing there. No tourism cluster, no mining. And there are fewer and fewer people.

The talks about the allocation of funds, support, implementation of programs are ongoing. For now, the islands have cellular communications and the Internet.

But for Japan, these islands are a very important territory. For Russia too. This is already a boring political game for everyone: some cannot take, others cannot give. Russia really cannot give up the Kuril Islands. If you give up the islands, those who wish will come running to other territories. This is the main reason, but it is valid. Let diplomats and lawyers dig for another 500 years into what was signed in 1956. It plays into our hands.

But the Japanese are not very good. Almost every politician starts their career with the Kuril issue. And all that is typical, they could not solve it. But this does not diminish the cravings at all.

What could happen here? There are options.

Of course, the Kuril Islands are not a reason to unleash the Third World War. Well, these plots of land are not being pulled so that the world could be demolished for their sake. So - another scenario would be appropriate here.

This scenario was first played out in Kosovo. After that it was successfully repeated in several places. Our Crimean scenario is actually a bloodless variation on the same theme.

So what can the Japanese do in this regard? Just organize the settlement of the islands within the framework of any program. What they actually dream about. Joint economic projects. Japan has already built a hotel on the islands, donated two pontoons, significantly improving communication between the islands.

Cultural centers, some kind of economic ones, are being created ... And there is a small but confident influx of people from those who want to work for the good of the "northern territories". There are people like that in Japan, they have complete order with that.

The presence is gradually increasing. Until a certain moment, when problems begin on both sides. We already know how this happens and why. There are more than enough examples around Russia.

And that's when the warships come onto the scene. Because only with their help it will be possible to protect the interests of the "oppressed" peoples. It does not matter what nationality, in any case, the ships will leave the bases for "defense".


Photo by wikipedia.org

And here "suddenly" an unpleasant thing can become clear. The Japanese fleet, without the help of the American allies, is capable of neutralizing the entire Pacific Fleet without straining itself too much. The number of attack ships in the Japanese navy exceeds the number of Russian ships capable of delivering serious strikes.

40 destroyers with anti-ship missiles is a very serious number of salvoes. Plus two dozen submarines. In general, it is enough to induce democracy on the islands.

You can talk a lot about numbers and compare the capabilities of the two fleets. But alas, the Japanese navy is much younger than ours. It is a fact. And its capabilities (with the exception of destroying the world) are higher than those of the Pacific Fleet.

Is it all that sad? No, not all of them.

Practice has shown that the Pacific Fleet is today able to provide an amphibious operation. The fleet has landing ships and boats at its disposal. They do not shine with novelty, but they do exist and will be able to perform tasks to carry out support operations on the islands or, for example, to transfer an air defense brigade. To the Kuril Islands.

I have already said that the economic value of the islands today is near zero. This must be admitted calmly and said that tomorrow the North and South Kuril ridges will be able to become excellent outposts of defense. For example, Iskanders (or even better - Caliber) on Kunashir will be able to kindle a fire very well in the hearts of Japanese revanchists, and then extinguish it. Because even if the Japanese had placed elements of the Aegis system on their islands, in this situation it would be very difficult for the system to reflect a shot at point-blank range. That is, from 150-200 kilometers.

So, rockets. Winged, anti-ship, anti-aircraft. It is useful, it cools the hottest heads.

Aircraft. They are very much needed. Intelligence, guidance, admonition. There are airfields on the islands, but more is needed. Let it be jump airfields, it is not so important. The main thing is that from them it was possible to work on targets both on the coast (Japanese) and at sea.

Ships. Landing, so that you can support the coastal troops on the islands and combat, to discourage everyone who wants to make holes in the landing ships.

The experience gained when supplying a group of Russian troops in Syria has shown how necessary a fleet is in conducting such operations. Today we can say that the Black Sea Fleet was completely unprepared for the task of supplying a rather small group of troops in Syria, and they had to buy old steamers everywhere to transport military cargo to Syria.

In the Far East, this is unlikely to work out, if only because, unlike terrorists, the Japanese have warships and planes that can try to interfere with the delivery of goods.

Some might say that the script is fantastic enough. Maybe. Anyone who has not read what is written on forums such as our "Review" in Japan. The audience there is no different from ours in terms of the intensity of the expressed passions, nothing. For some reason, all these stories about cultured, educated and restrained Japanese themselves become fiction on the theme of the Kuril Islands.

Yes, this is just the "voice of the people", and letting off steam in discussions, the Japanese again become quiet and well-mannered. But, as they say, what's on the mind of a sober ...

The problem of the Kuriles is and will remain for the Japanese a problem cleaner than Fukushima. It is a fact. And it's very good to consider this problem from the islands themselves, when there is a fleet behind you, and not a bunch of old ships on the way to recycling.

Today the Russian shipbuilding program for fleets is ridiculous. Yes, we are not able to take and solve all the problems with the ships. Therefore, forty-year-old ships have to be patched up and their service life extended.

But isn't it better than throwing 3-4 ships on each of the fleets, taking and modernizing the fleet that will cover the most explosive area? That is, the Pacific Fleet, which today (and tomorrow) is sorely lacking either small patrol ships or serious strike ships. And the Pacific Fleet has an enemy. And the enemy is not only strong, but also equipped with modern ships.

It is very difficult to say why Japan needs such a fleet. It seems to be like defending against possible Chinese aggression, but here's the problem: China has never been the first to get into a fight historically. It is clear that this is not an argument, and Taiwan may become the first, but ... We can also get into the history of Japan. There are more beautiful cases.

If you want peace, prepare for war. " That's what smart people said. And if we want peace in the region that was discussed, then we just need to be ready to stop the possible inclinations of Japan.

That is, the Pacific Fleet needs surface ships. New and in sufficient quantities. Tomorrow, because no one today will be able to say how much longer the Japanese will restrain their revanchism and militarism.
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  1. Dante Alighieri
    Dante Alighieri 23 November 2021 05: 35
    +23
    How I love those grandiloquent words "must", "must" and all that and all that kind of stuff. Meanwhile, in the dock of a 30-ship repair ship, a ship is being cut, which alone could significantly change the balance of forces in this theater of operations. I already wrote about the erroneousness of this decision in the article "To Save" Admiral Lazarev "https://topwar.ru/184525-spasti-admirala-lazareva.html
    There is also a video by Konstantin Semin about this situation.

    Ps I do not beg for the conclusions of Roman, but they are far from reality as much as the onset of communism in 1980.
    1. SergKam
      SergKam 23 November 2021 06: 33
      +33
      which alone could significantly alter the balance of power in a given theater of operations.

      With all due respect, not a single prodigy has changed the balance of power in history.
      Even if you make a super-ship, it needs reconnaissance, and this is AWACS aviation, and guard fighters are needed for AWACS aircraft, and they need jump airfields, etc.
      1. Dante Alighieri
        Dante Alighieri 23 November 2021 06: 50
        +19
        in history, not a single wunderwaffle has changed the balance of power.

        I do not argue. On the contrary, the experience of Bismarck and Tirpitz clearly confirms the truth of your words. However, to scatter what you already have, on which human and material resources have already been spent, time is at least blasphemous, but for the most part - criminal. In addition, technological progress does not stand still. The same Admiral Lazarev carried not only a shock, but also a defensive function, providing air defense cover for ships that did not have their own air defense. So, in an amicable way, it would be worth building a ship grouping in the Far East around it, and not equipping ship groups with white elephants in the form of a UDC or TARK.
        1. SergKam
          SergKam 23 November 2021 07: 22
          +12
          Of course, I am not campaigning for recycling.
          To break is not to build, I completely agree with you.
          I was just surprised by the phrase about "single-handedly change the balance"
          1. Dante Alighieri
            Dante Alighieri 23 November 2021 09: 32
            +13
            Yes, I realized that you perceived me a little differently: when I wrote about "SIGNIFICANTLY change the balance", I meant that if today we are losing dry, then with Lazarev we would still lose, but we would do it dearly , with honor and beautifully, which in itself could cool further encroachments on our territory. Now the reality is that any external expansion, whether we like it or not, will have to be stopped by a nuclear strike on our own territory, because to strike a hostile one means putting the world on the brink of an atomic war. Let's not delude ourselves with the fact that the Japs officially do not have nuclear weapons. if they decide to dot the Kuril issue, purely for peace of mind, they will provide themselves with a bomb, and the United States will not remain on the sidelines - they will throw in everything they need.

            In addition, let's not forget that such a solution also has its drawbacks. First of all, a nuclear strike on a disputed territory significantly reduces the value of this territory itself. True, it is worth admitting that in the conditions of a total deficit of everything and everyone in the army and navy, the position of a "dog in the manger" does not seem so senseless to me personally. In addition, one should not discount how such a step will be perceived in the international political arena. It is clear that the winners are not judged, but it may well surrender that the international community, incited by all sorts of fighters for all the good against all the bad, will regard even the defensive use of nuclear weapons on our part and on its own territory as a response "disproportionate" to aggression, unworthy for the state , which is a permanent member of the UN Security Council. Everything in a compartment can lead to a serious change in our positions in international relations, which will inevitably affect all other spheres of life of our society, which is still sharply dependent on the export of resources and the import of finished products.

            Therefore, the only open question that really worries me is whether the country's leadership will have enough political will to make such a difficult but necessary decision or not. Personally, I have bad suspicions on this score, but somehow I don’t want to check their truth. This is what we live. But I would still prefer to rely on a fleet capable of independently suppressing any threat, rather than blindly relying on the "last argument of the kings."

            This is so ... Thoughts aloud
            1. Stepan S
              Stepan S 23 November 2021 15: 35
              0
              Now the reality is that any external expansion, whether we like it or not, will have to be stopped by a nuclear strike on our own territory, because to strike a hostile one means putting the world on the brink of an atomic war.

              What are you talking about? It’s even funny to me. Maybe then we will immediately bomb Voronezh? Why not bang around Hiroshima and Nagasaki? The Japanese will understand the hint. And the world will understand and calm down.
            2. bayard
              bayard 23 November 2021 18: 29
              +9
              With "Lazarev" there was a desire and plans, but ... the course of modernization of "Nakhimov" showed how difficult, long and expensive it is for the modern Russian Federation. Here, help Ahura-Mazda, to drive "Petra" into repairs and at least to modernize according to the shortest program ...
              Have forgotten how.
              And quite a few "prospectors" took the trouble to make the entire shipbuilding program and the modernization program go down the drain ... And it went off.
              There is no Leader in the country ... there are only "hired managers" and locum tenens.
              Only the development of the budget is going according to plan.

              "Lazarev" could not be repaired in Primorye - "Zvezda" delayed the commissioning of its capacities, and was loaded with civil orders to the eyeballs. To drag by tug to Severodvinsk is still a pleasure. And there is no free capacity there either. His reactor has been dismantled, so a large amount of work is needed ... and although the ship did not serve, it is already quite old ...
              To build on our own ... it doesn't work out (and there was nothing to click with its beak in 2014) ... To organize cooperation with the same China ... either the mind, or the will, or the conscience ... or Chinese desires ... NO.
              All explanations of the officialdom are from the evil one. There is a deliberate sabotage, high-tech industries are being destroyed, incl. defense. Without the evil will of the internal enemy, it could not be done here.
              And the main "hired manager" is quite satisfied with this.
              Alas.
              1. Osipov9391
                Osipov9391 23 November 2021 18: 59
                +3
                The atomic scout "Ural" is also a new ship. Almost never went anywhere and was not used properly.
                And it was abandoned long ago and sent for scrap. Someone's hands on green capacitors and gold connectors will heat up very well.
                But what about such a ship with air defense? Does it make sense to use MANPADS on such a ship?
                Or could the girls on the Hornets attack him without any difficulty?
                "Lazarev" is a different topic, there are many different air defense systems.
                And the "Ural" is essentially unarmed against the threat from the air.

                Or does he not need weapons? When does he act in conjunction with the "Lazarev" or an aircraft carrier?
                1. bayard
                  bayard 23 November 2021 19: 45
                  +2
                  Quote: Osipov9391
                  Or does he not need weapons? When he acts in conjunction

                  He no longer needs anything - he is gone.
        2. Doccor18
          Doccor18 23 November 2021 08: 44
          +7
          Quote: Dante
          However, to scatter what you already have, on which human and material resources have already been spent, time is at least blasphemous, but for the most part - criminal. In addition, technological progress does not stand still. The same Admiral Lazarev carried not only a shock, but also a defensive function, providing air defense cover for ships that did not have their own air defense. So, in an amicable way, it would be worth building a ship grouping in the Far East around it, and not equipping ship groups with white elephants in the form of a UDC or TARK.

          I absolutely agree with you hi

          To Article:
          Apart from US submarines, which from time to time hang out under the ice, we have no enemy in the North.

          We have an adversary in the North, a hardened adversary - NATO.

          Of course, there is nothing of value in these patches of land. Yes, whatever they say ...

          Well, well ... A glance that does not know anything about those places.

          The Kuril Islands have such outskirts of the empire that it is difficult for a normal person to imagine.

          Oh yes, we have this to almost half of the country's territories. Everything outside the capital's ring road is "backyard" ... What is the attitude to the regions, so is their development ...

          Practice has shown that the Pacific Fleet is today able to provide an amphibious operation. The fleet has landing ships at its disposal ...

          Is it those four 40-year-old BDKs or what? Yes, given the complete superiority of the Japanese in the air ...

          It's very difficult to say why Japan needs such a fleet ... 

          laughing Well, yes, why should they ... wassat

          That is - the Pacific Fleet needs surface ships

          And not only the Pacific Fleet, and not only the surface ...
          1. Civil
            Civil 23 November 2021 09: 40
            +5
            Nervous Japanese. Over there, the Chinese silently and calmly watch as the Russians are leaving the Far East and Siberia en masse.
            1. Doccor18
              Doccor18 23 November 2021 09: 42
              +12
              The Chinese just know how to wait like no one else ...
          2. Serge-667
            Serge-667 23 November 2021 22: 27
            +4
            Oh yes, we have this to almost half of the country's territories. Everything outside the capital's ring road is "backyard" ... What is the attitude to the regions, so is their development ...


            So, I wanted to say that an article, not an article, but the opinion of a metropolitan man in the street .. Outstripped)
            "There is no life beyond the Moscow Ring Road" ©

            Although, judging by the enthusiasm with which the metropolitan ghouls climb to the Far East for crabs and other marine life, it seems that they are not indifferent to fishing grounds.
        3. Lannan Shi
          Lannan Shi 23 November 2021 09: 41
          +5
          Quote: Dante
          The same Admiral Lazarev carried not only a shock, but also a defensive function, providing air defense cover for ships that did not have their own air defense. So, in an amicable way, it would be worth building a ship grouping in the Far East around it, and not equipping ship groups with white elephants in the form of a UDC or TARK.

          Honestly. I tried to comprehend and could not. In the first half of the aircraft carrier Admiral Lazarev is a useful ship, around which it is necessary to build a ship group, in the second ... The aircraft carrier Admiral Lazarev is a white elephant. How complicated it all is.
          1. Doccor18
            Doccor18 23 November 2021 10: 07
            +4
            Quote: Lannan Shi
            I tried to comprehend and could not.

            Apparently a typo. 1144 after all TARK is a heavy nuclear missile cruiser.
            A TAKR is a heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser, such as Kiev or Kuznetsov ...
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Lannan Shi
              Lannan Shi 23 November 2021 10: 14
              0
              Ugums, it's okay. Itself, too, the letters are not so arranged. sad
          2. Dante Alighieri
            Dante Alighieri 23 November 2021 10: 17
            +3
            In this case, the "white elephant" is not a curse, it's just that Lazarev is alone and he is big))))
        4. Barberry25
          Barberry25 23 November 2021 12: 34
          +4
          here you need to understand that the wunderwaffle may not change, but when it does, it is already called a "technical breakthrough that allowed you to win." in this war, and the Kremlin will not want to lose .. Which will lead to huge losses of the Japanese army and navy, huge fin. costs and, as a result, loss in the war, which puts an end to the party that started this adventure. Therefore, apart from "I will return the northern territories" there will be no fuss, Well, unless the Liberahs bring another Yeltsin to power ..
          1. Serge-667
            Serge-667 23 November 2021 22: 34
            +1
            They will gradually settle in for joint projects and that's it. And then they will hold a referendum.
            1. Barberry25
              Barberry25 24 November 2021 09: 17
              -2
              and why haven't they settled it yet? why have all joint projects been screwed up? not to mention the fact that Crimea became Russian not because of the "referendum", but because the Ukrainians actually passed it. There is also a story with the islands - Putin is not, history teaches, so in the event of a military conflict, the war will be all the way, and not until "oh, they took the islands, well, okay" .. these islands will become a very heavy suitcase without handles for the Japanese, because they will have to enter the fleet into the Japanese sea for the creation of an air defense / missile defense zone, which automatically makes them targets for our anti-ship missiles ... Russia can afford to fight for at least a year, at least two, but the Japanese do not
              1. Serge-667
                Serge-667 24 November 2021 09: 42
                0
                And where is the guarantee that in five to seven years the same will not happen to the Russian Federation? Will take and hand over in fact the island. Without any military conflict? As a sign of friendship with the great Japanese people?
                Gifts are given to the great Chinese people. Great Norwegian too. Are the Japanese worse? We have more in common with them than with the Norwegians and Chinese.
                1. Barberry25
                  Barberry25 24 November 2021 09: 55
                  -1
                  laughing and if the grandmother had a member, then she would be a grandfather .. If the central government in the form of libers brought to power by the crowd decides to give the Japanese islands, then what? the presence of a fleet will not play at all)
                  1. Serge-667
                    Serge-667 24 November 2021 10: 03
                    0
                    Those. Norwegians and Chinese have a member? It was not the "Liberahs" who gave them gifts.
                    The surrender of the islands by the current government is a matter of time. And money.
                    1. Barberry25
                      Barberry25 24 November 2021 10: 07
                      -2
                      1) with the Chinese, we demarcated the borders, which for some reason the USSR did not carry out, but with the Norwegians it is still easier - the disputed area was divided in half and received the rights to the Lomonosov Ridge ...
                      1. Serge-667
                        Serge-667 24 November 2021 12: 02
                        0
                        I understood. #this is another ...
                      2. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 24 November 2021 12: 53
                        -3
                        Well, yes) to the evil and terrible Chinese, they gave as much as one and a half islands, who were walking, what were driving, they made a distinction with the Norwegians and under this brand they brought the entire Lomonosov Ridge under themselves ... to share the sea + the Japanese have nothing to offer in return ..
                    2. Barberry25
                      Barberry25 24 November 2021 10: 09
                      -2
                      I supplement with an approximate calculation of the exclusive economic zones acquired by Russia in square kilometers: 52000 (Okhotsk) + 1191000 (Lomonosov ridge) + 700000 (the area of ​​the Gakkel, Alpha and Lomonosov ridges, the Mendeleev Rise, as well as the Nansen, Amundsen and Makarov basins) + about 13000 (part Sea of ​​Azov after receiving Crimea) + about 67000 (part of the Black Sea after receiving Crimea) + about 25676 (area near Novaya Zemlya) + about 61667 (part of the Caspian Sea) = 52000 + 1191000 + 700000 + 13000 + 67000 + 25676 + 61667 = 2 110 343 km²
      2. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 23 November 2021 09: 06
        0
        Moreover, a long-range RLO and not only AWACS but also Poseidon analogs ...
      3. Serge-667
        Serge-667 23 November 2021 22: 48
        +1
        in history, not a single wunderwaffle has changed the balance of power.

        Project 949 and Project 941 could throw a 941-megaton wagon of heat and light in a salvo, and Antey could fire an anti-ship missile salvo equal to a full-fledged air division. That is why we lost them so quickly under the strict guidance of the Washington regional committee. Almost themselves with a grinder came to saw.
    2. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 23 November 2021 07: 59
      +2
      Quote: Dante
      Meanwhile, at the dock of a 30-ship repair ship, a ship is being cut, which alone could significantly change the balance of forces in this theater of operations.

      there will be a ship for you - "Nakhimov", after modernization it will go to the Pacific Fleet. The truth of your conclusions and his superpower, I do not share hi
      1. Dante Alighieri
        Dante Alighieri 23 November 2021 09: 36
        +7
        there will be a ship for you - "Nakhimov", after modernization it will go to the Pacific Fleet

        Do not go, he will simply replace Peter, who is waiting for planned repairs and limited modernization.
    3. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 23 November 2021 08: 04
      +1
      The novel is right that the policy of distributing ships and submarines to all sisters by earrings (and in reality to each admiral by a feeding trough) is criminal, there are two very important fleets - Kamchatka and Northern, they need to be expanded in every possible way, including completely taking all ships of the first second-rank from closed seas, where their potential cannot be realized. And on the BF and submarines, the sea is narrow and shallow. There will be enough ships of the third rank in the closed seas (Baltic Black Caspian and Japanese), including in the Sea of ​​Japan where the depth of the Tatar Strait is 7 meters ...
      1. Stepan S
        Stepan S 23 November 2021 15: 45
        +1
        And on the BF and the submarines, the sea is narrow and shallow.

        A submarine in the Baltic, consider that there is no such thing. One boat does not make the weather. The second is being renovated.
        including in the Sea of ​​Japan where the depth of the Tatar Strait is 7 meters ...

        Do you think that the Tatar Strait is the entire Sea of ​​Japan? Who will stick in the strait there? Any missile system shoots through the strait from any side.
        1. Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 23 November 2021 21: 19
          0
          Quote: Stepan S
          Is the Tatar Strait all the Sea of ​​Japan?

          the Tatar Strait is the only strait through which, in case of war, Russian ships will be able to sail from the Sea of ​​Japan to the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, all ships with a draft of more than 7 meters (cruiser and 1155) will be locked in Vladik and useless
        2. Serge-667
          Serge-667 23 November 2021 22: 50
          0
          It's just that Vladimir is everywhere bending the line of the mosquito fleet.
          1. Vladimir1155
            Vladimir1155 24 November 2021 07: 40
            0
            Quote: Serge-667
            bending the line of the mosquito fleet

            if you do not agree, please dig a channel in the Tatar Strait and further deepen the Volga Don Neva and Svir
            1. Serge-667
              Serge-667 24 November 2021 08: 53
              -1
              You are a strategist, like a ballerina of me.
              1. Vladimir1155
                Vladimir1155 24 November 2021 08: 55
                -1
                Quote: Serge-667
                I'm a ballerina

                well, it is clear that the ballerina .... cannot just calculate the draft of the vessel and the depth of the fairway and draw a conclusion .... or do you want a new tsushima?
                1. Serge-667
                  Serge-667 24 November 2021 09: 07
                  0
                  Vladimir, answer me one question - the purpose of your mosquito fleet in the Sea of ​​Japan. You need him there to do what?
                  1. Vladimir1155
                    Vladimir1155 24 November 2021 10: 31
                    0
                    Quote: Serge-667
                    answer me one question - the purpose of your mosquito fleet in the Sea of ​​Japan

                    I do not see the purpose for the surface fleet outside Kamchatka and the North, where they have to provide ASW around nuclear submarine bases ... therefore, the presence of a mosquito fleet in the Sea of ​​Japan is more likely for peacetime, ensuring freedom of navigation, fishing, suppression of provocations ... in wartime maybe there is benefit from it, or maybe not, but this fleet is there and it can be kept there or brought to the more needed water area by the Tatar Strait, but frigates 1155, corvettes and cruisers in the Japanese sea are definitely not needed, but they would be useful in Kamchatka
                    1. Serge-667
                      Serge-667 24 November 2021 12: 39
                      0
                      I do not see the designated purpose for the surface fleet outside Kamchatka and the Northern


                      Thank God that you are not the one who makes decisions of this level.
          2. Vladimir1155
            Vladimir1155 24 November 2021 08: 58
            0
            Quote: Serge-667
            mosquito fleet line

            you are not attentive yet, I am not bending the line of the mosquito, but of the submarine fleet
    4. slm976
      slm976 23 November 2021 08: 33
      +16
      Good afternoon, unfortunately, it was necessary to save "Admiral Lazarev" 20 years ago, the ship has been mothballed for 30 years, and initially no one was going to repair it ... there was no money, it was simply kept afloat. And the state of the ship is appropriate. Now its repair and modernization is pointless. It's easier to build several new ships for the same money, and easier and faster!
      Look at the modernization of Nakhimov, how much time and money was spent on it, and the end of the work is not yet in sight, and "Lazarev" can be put on modernization only after "Nakhimov" and it will take much more time and money, since his state is miserably deplorable ....
      But next in line for modernization there is also "Peter 1", the prospect of which is clearly better than that of "Lazarev" .... And Sevmash is not rubber ((.
      Now we need to save what is really saved, for example, to repair and modernize the BOD of pr.1155, modeled on the "Marshal Shaposhnikov", these ships, after repair and modernization, can really enhance the combat potential of our fleet.
      Well, we need to build, build corvettes of project 20380/20385 and frigates of project 22350, as much as we can pull ...
      1. Dante Alighieri
        Dante Alighieri 23 November 2021 09: 52
        +4
        Hello, read the article. There is about the state, and about the prospects, and about the cost, as well as about possible alternatives. I will say briefly: if desired, the ship's hull could be stored for a very long time, as, for example, eloquently testify to the photos posted on the airbase forum by the respected Bashkirhan. They clearly show that the hull is in good condition, the paintwork applied in 2015 during drydocking and repair at the same shipyard 30 is still holding, and corrosion is minimal.
        1. slm976
          slm976 23 November 2021 10: 39
          +4
          I read your article "To Save Admiral Lazarev".
          I will say briefly:
          1. To judge the condition of the ship's hull from photographs, and even after docking and painting, in my opinion it is quite naive.
          2. The main cost overruns in the repair and modernization of BNK arises after the revision and replacement of cable routes, here we have no information, except the official one - the game is not worth the candle.
          3. Anything valuable that can be removed from the ship has been removed long ago, you yourself write about it in your article.

          In fact, in your article, you yourself confirm the thesis that "Admiral Lazarev" is currently an empty hull, in an unknown state (you think that it is in good condition based on the photographs given), which is not cost-effective to repair and modernize and suggest converting it into a training vessel ...
          I will not evaluate the possibility of such a conversion, especially if it will be a conversion into a functioning ship, and not into a museum-hotel for cadets of maritime universities, I will ask one thing, what does your thought have to do with the topic of an article about a possible war for the Kuril Islands?

          You write above:
          How I love those grandiloquent words "must", "must" and all that and all that kind of stuff. Meanwhile, at the dock of a 30-ship repair ship, a ship is being cut, which alone could significantly change the balance of forces in this theater of operations.


          In what capacity could he change the balance of power? As a training vessel you suggested converting it to? In my opinion, you are contradicting yourself, in your article).
          1. Serge-667
            Serge-667 23 November 2021 22: 55
            +1
            The main cost overruns during the repair and modernization of BNK arises after the revision and replacement of cable routes


            Strictly speaking, their service life is about 20 years. In any case, they must be changed with such frequency.
            Otherwise I agree. Either a complete modernization, or, if there is no money and desire, and, most importantly, the country's naval doctrine is blurred, so why should you regret it.
          2. Dante Alighieri
            Dante Alighieri 24 November 2021 07: 12
            0
            Hello. I apologize - I didn't get an answer yesterday.

            So let's go in order.

            Firstly, whether we like it or not, we will have to judge the state of the ship solely by photographs, since now we have the opportunity to contemplate the state of the ship not only immediately after docking, but also after 6 years of being at the quay wall, which does not at all guarantee protection from adverse climatic factors. My co-author Yuri even interviewed his acquaintances and comrades, one of whom is just working in the field of naval construction, and the other is an acting engineer-sailor of the merchant fleet, in order to assess the external state of the ship. Both of them described the condition of the hull as very decent. I heard about the same position from the officers who served on this ship, who assure that this corps is difficult to "kill", and provided timely repairs (which the cruiser passed regularly), there is no need to doubt the quality of the structures. True, they believe that recycling has as its goal not just a banal cutting of the ship into metal, but involves the further use of the hull for the construction of an aircraft carrier on its basis (in no way Klimov's ideas went to the people), but I did not try to convince them of this.

            As for the cable routes, I’m already tired of hearing the mantra about them as something incredibly difficult and impossible, despite the fact that no one has ever demonstrated how their wear is manifested: there were no photographs of worn-out cables, no results of measuring the difference reference (output by the unit) voltage and rated voltage of the network, no measurements of current ripple or electromagnetic radiation from a deteriorated shielding (braid). Nothing at all was demonstrated to indicate wiring defects in one way or another. That said, I am not denying that there is a problem, I am simply saying that it is overrated. For example, on the cruiser Marshal Ustinov, pr. 1164, during the modernization, all cable routes were generally replaced, and although the process did not go quickly, it was worth it. With Admiral Lazarev, everything is even easier - the new power plant a priori will require new trunk cable routes, which means that the issue of their replacement entirely depends on the solution of the problem with the reactors.

            Here you need to understand that the option of saving the ship that I proposed was not invented from a good life and pursues one single task as its goal - to save the ship from the fate of being cut on pins and needles. Ideally, of course, to carry out a complete modernization like Admiral Nakhimov. But I am a realist and I see that this is impossible in the short term. Therefore, Yuri and I worked out a compromise solution, on the one hand, capable of satisfying the appetites of the industry, planning to earn extra money on the disposal of a unique ship, and on the other hand, designed to endow the Admiral Lazarev TARK with an important social and educational goal so that its stay in the fleet is no longer justified by the phrase "hi bude", but had a very specific utilitarian function. All this, in the end, would allow the ship to be kept in a relatively decent condition until the time when money and the opportunity for a full modernization appear (and here the cost of repairing living quarters would go minus the total amount of all repairs and renovations), or until the moment when the cruiser will finally cease to be of value even as a potential combat unit. Therefore, there are no contradictions in my position. Moreover, we are discussing a hypothetical situation with you, when tomorrow there is a war and smoke over our Motherland, when we need one victory, one for all, and we will not stand the price. In this case, the presence of such a ship, even as a floating platform for weapons, is still capable of leveling the discrepancy in our forces and the forces of a potential enemy, and this one way or another will have to be reckoned with. hi
      2. Nemchinov Vl
        Nemchinov Vl 23 November 2021 15: 54
        0
        Quote: slm976
        Now it is necessary to save what is really saved, for example, to repair and modernize the BOD pr.1155, modeled on "Marshal Shaposhnikov"

        it is of course "YES" (!), but no one cared about the manufacture of GTE analogues, for the restoration of the power plant of these ships ... at least since 2014 ?!... As a result, this question is now at an impasse ...
        Quote: slm976
        ... and we need to build, build corvettes pr. 20380/20385
        let's just not 20380 .. ? !! they are without PLUR (!)... implementation of PLO / OVR functions (anyway effective) - UNREALISTIC !!!
        and 20385 certainly has the right to life, but (!) ... very desirable on new diesels family "D-500" (8000 hp), which need to help Kolomna to mass-produce in the near future.
        Well, as a third option, it is to strain the efforts of "Saturn", on the release, testing and the earliest launch into serial production of a power plant, out of four gas turbine engines (M-70FRU) by analogy with the power plant "Smetlivoy", and on its basis consider the issue of releasing a series small escort frigates of the project "Thunder" (project 12441), for the composition of modern weapons systems (UKSK for anti-ship missiles / PLUR "Answer", etc.) ...
        It won't get in the way (!) the construction program of the 22350 series, since more powerful M-90FR gas turbine engines are used there ...
        1. slm976
          slm976 23 November 2021 15: 59
          -1
          it is certainly "YES" (!), but no one cared about the manufacture of GTE analogues, to restore the power plant of these ships ... at least since 2014? !!!. As a result, this question is now at an impasse ...

          Well, we have not forgotten how to repair the engines yet!

          let's just not 20380 ..? !! they are without PLUR (!) ... implementation of PLO / OVR functions (at least effective) - NOT REALIZED !!!
          and 20385, of course, has the right to life, but (!) ... it is very desirable on new diesel engines of the D-500 family (8000 hp each), which Kolomna should be helped to mass-produce in the near future.
          Well, as a third option, it is to strain the efforts of "Saturn", on the release, testing and the earliest launch into serial production of a power plant, out of four gas turbine engines (M-70FRU) by analogy with the power plant "Smetlivoy", and on its basis consider the issue of releasing a series small escort frigates of the project "Thunder" (project 12441), for the composition of modern weapons systems (UKSK for anti-ship missiles / PLUR "Answer", etc.) ...


          And let's build what we can already build, and leave the projects for later! Ships are needed here and now, there is no time for new projects.
          1. Nemchinov Vl
            Nemchinov Vl 23 November 2021 18: 13
            +2
            Quote: slm976
            And let's build what we can already build, and leave the projects for later! Ships are needed here and now, there is no time for new projects.
            and what is the point of building a ship that is obviously not capable of working (20380), if it cannot effectively perform its functions, neither in terms of the composition of weapons nor in terms of speed ... ?!
            suddenly your son will serve on it, and will be in the sight of a potential enemy's nuclear submarine, and his crewmates will not even have anything to snap back (!)... Why would such a crew be put in a knowingly losing / hopeless position ... ? !!

            Quote: slm976
            Well, we have not forgotten how to repair the engines yet!

            but in fact ? ... The timing of the repair of "Chabanenko", "Levchenko" and "Severomorsk", and the write-off of "Kharlamov", do not lead you to think that with the repair (recovery) of these GEMs, everything is far from smooth ... ?!
            1. slm976
              slm976 23 November 2021 19: 25
              -1
              And what is the point of building a ship that is obviously not capable of working (20380), if it cannot effectively perform its functions, neither in terms of the composition of weapons nor in terms of speed ...? !!!


              This ship is able to find submarines and carries a helicopter, which these submarines can destroy, why did it become incapacitated? In general, if you proceed from your logic, the lion's share of the anti-submarine ships of the USSR was incapacitated, they did not only without a PLUR, but also without a helicopter ..
              In general, to ensure an ASW connection, not a single BNK is needed, but the interaction of several anti-submarine ships with anti-submarine aircraft ...

              The timing of the repairs of Chabanenko, Levchenko and Severomorsk, and the write-off of Kharlamov, do not make you think that with the repair (restoration) of these power plants, everything is far from smooth ...? !!!

              No, they make me think that the Ministry of Defense again squeezed money to finance repairs and modernization and we run the risk of profiting the modernization of the BOD, just as we have already profited the modernization of the nuclear submarine ...
              1. Nemchinov Vl
                Nemchinov Vl 23 November 2021 20: 04
                +1
                Quote: slm976
                This ship knows how to find submarines and carries a helicopter that can destroy these submarines,
                This ship is a small VI and the use of a helicopter from it will not always be possible (this is the first). the helicopter carries only one small torpedo (!), which can go to the SGPD or the simulator (!), the possibility of reloading a helicopter at sea, with a torpedo again, as I understand it, on such a ship, is not possible (this is the second)
                Quote: slm976
                .. if we proceed from your logic, the lion's share of the anti-submarine ships of the USSR was incompetent,
                nonsense (!), they either had the Metel or Rastrub-B complexes (if we take Ave 1135 or BOD 1134B, or 1155), capable of inflicting damage on enemy submarines for 40-50 km. !!! (this is the first), or at least 533 mm TA (even on MPK 1124 "Albatross", who is 35 years older than the project 20380) capable of using torpedoes. The range of even old Soviet torpedoes is 25-40 km, and not 14-18 as in modern 324 mm torpedoes of the "Packet-NK" complex ... (this is the second) !!!.
                The BOD was carried by two helicopters at once (!), and their use from ships, taking into account the VI BOD, under 8000 tons, was more painless in any excitement of peace !!!
                hi
                1. slm976
                  slm976 23 November 2021 22: 03
                  -1
                  nonsense (!), they either had the Metel or Rastrub-B complexes (if we take Project 1135 or BOD 1134B, or 1155), capable of inflicting damage on enemy submarines at 40-50 km. !!! (this is the first),


                  After all, I wrote "the lion's share of the anti-submarine ships of the USSR", and the most massive PLO ship was the IPC project 1124, and not at all the BOD and TFR.


                  ... or at least 533 mm TA (even on the MPK 1124 "Albatross", which is 35 years older than the project 20380), capable of using torpedoes.


                  Now we just started talking about the massive OVR ships, for which the corvette of pr. 20380 was conceived to replace. Neither PLUR, nor a helicopter, OGAS, a bomb launcher and 4 torpedoes, and OGAS, if I am not mistaken, works only on the stop ... ...
                  As for age, for some reason, when you gave an example of BOD pr. 1134B, this age difference did not bother you at all ...

                  So, why am I all this, the presence of PLUR on anti-submarine ships is desirable, but not at all necessary. And IPC pr. 1124M is a living example of this. In general, a single ship, in principle, cannot in PLO, be it with or without PLUR ...
                  PLO is a system in which a group of anti-submarine ships and naval aviation - anti-submarine helicopters and aircraft - must be simultaneously involved, and together they can find and destroy enemy submarines.

                  As for the beginning of our conversation, let it not be 20380, since you do not like it so much, but 20385 with UKSK, the main thing is that this ship should be worked out by industry and built at a normal pace, otherwise we will soon be left without PLO at all, in principle. !
              2. Vladimir1155
                Vladimir1155 24 November 2021 09: 04
                -1
                Quote: slm976
                The Ministry of Defense again squeezed money to finance repairs and modernization, and we run the risk of profiting the modernization of the BOD, just as we have already profited the modernization of the nuclear submarine ...

                Kuzya ate all the money = AB
                1. slm976
                  slm976 24 November 2021 09: 10
                  0
                  Vladimir, your hatred for our only aircraft-carrying ship is well known, so at least once you would change the record and say something new, you would surprise the people)
                  1. Vladimir1155
                    Vladimir1155 24 November 2021 10: 24
                    0
                    Quote: slm976
                    the only aircraft carrier

                    but in fact there is nothing to argue? how much does Kuzya cost, taking into account the repair and rebuilding of the dock, announce the amount ... and then announce how much it costs to repair a very necessary BOD1155 1135 1164 or nuclear submarine (and Kuzya will send all of them to the scrap) ... and you will understand my obvious correctness
                    1. slm976
                      slm976 24 November 2021 10: 26
                      0
                      What is the essence of your comment? There is no essence, your usual stuffing ... But there is no essence and the answer is appropriate!
                      1. Vladimir1155
                        Vladimir1155 24 November 2021 10: 40
                        0
                        Quote: slm976
                        But there is no essence and the answer is appropriate!
                        Well, in my opinion, in my position, the essence is obvious, if you sell India's Kuzya to China, then money will be freed up for the modernization of 1155 and nuclear submarines, and there will also be money for new submarines, frigates and minesweepers that the fleet desperately needs ... and thanks for the frank confession that that your previous answer does not make sense to me!
                      2. slm976
                        slm976 24 November 2021 10: 56
                        -1
                        Well, in my opinion, the essence of my position is obvious, if you sell India's Kuzya to China, then money will be freed up for the modernization of 1155 and nuclear submarines, and there will also be money for new submarines, frigates and minesweepers, badly needed by the fleet ...!

                        Yeah, and with the free money we will buy a Mercedes for every pensioner in the country !!!
                        and thank you for your frank admission that your previous answer has no essence and meaning to me


                        I read this nonsense about the sale of "Kuznetsov" on VO under every article on the topic of the fleet ... for me, you just troll thickly on this site!
                      3. Vladimir1155
                        Vladimir1155 24 November 2021 11: 11
                        0
                        Quote: slm976
                        rave,

                        I studied your opus for a long time ..... found nothing but kindergarten accusations and hysterical sobbing
                      4. slm976
                        slm976 24 November 2021 11: 13
                        0
                        Keep exploring!
        2. Barberry25
          Barberry25 24 November 2021 10: 48
          -2
          Well, Kolomna promises to launch serially medium-speed diesel engines in the near future, now on testing ... I do not agree about Gromy, this is a dispersal of forces ... It is more optimal to start either building corvettes 20385 with a simplified air defense a la SAM Resource, but with the allocation of funds for intensification, or start building small patrol boats on the Karakurt base with Kolome engines, but the construction needs to be intensified again ... another option is to strain Yantar, Almaz and Vostochnaya Verf by building patrol boats for the Pacific Fleet ..
    5. Non-fighter
      Non-fighter 23 November 2021 10: 36
      0
      Excuse me, but when was the last time he went to sea on his own, without a tug? How old is he?
      Without getting up from the couch I will say that there are ALL cable routes for replacement. If it is modernized, then only the hull and reactors with the first circuit will remain from the old ship. But first you need to take it all apart: (In short, what is the cost of repairs? Isn't it easier to build 2-3 or even 4 frigates with the same money?
      1. Barberry25
        Barberry25 24 November 2021 12: 58
        -1
        We seem to have a problem not in money, but in sites and personnel. If we want to write off a cruiser, then the question is ... do we need to transfer Sevmash to frigates?
    6. URAL72
      URAL72 23 November 2021 15: 29
      +1
      "a ship that alone could significantly alter the balance of power in a given theater of operations. "

      That is unlikely. Moreover, the ship is probably not difficult. For maintenance, repair, management. It is very expensive. Today, on the basis of the modernized Gorshkov, it is possible to create a ship that will not be inferior to the Eagles in anything, except for the cruising range. At the same time, it will be much cheaper in construction, in repair, and in operation.
      According to the article, - thanks to the author, I finally found out that the water is wet. In addition, he managed to surprise me extremely, claiming that we do not need the Black Sea Fleet and the Northern Fleet for nothing. But these are ticks with which we hold Europe by the testicles. Zero economic value of the Kuriles, it is generally beyond the bounds. Roman, are you aware that the Sea of ​​Okhotsk was officially recognized as internal to Russia, its exclusive economic zone, including all the fossils under it? It is not possible without the Kuriles !!!
      1. maratkoRuEkb
        maratkoRuEkb 23 November 2021 20: 19
        0
        I agree with you completely.
  2. Grandfather
    Grandfather 23 November 2021 05: 36
    +2
    That is, the Pacific Fleet needs surface ships.
    no options ... I agree with Roman in the "debriefing", in general, it is strange that with the length of the sea borders of the Russian Federation 38000 km, the fleet remains a "stepson" ...
    1. Crowe
      Crowe 23 November 2021 05: 56
      +17
      it is strange that with the length of the sea borders of the Russian Federation 38000 km, the fleet remains a "stepson"
      With all this, many are sincerely convinced that we are a land power - why do we need this fleet ...
      "All our affairs will be ruined if the fleet is wasted."
      Peter I.
  3. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 23 November 2021 06: 06
    +11
    The Kuril Islands are the gateway to our inland sea ... of course we must close them tightly and seal them from any attempts to discuss their ownership.
    I can’t agree with Roman that these islands have no economic value ... they still have ... if we give them to the Japanese and the biological resources of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk will rip apart all and sundry ...
    All poachers will have access to them.
    1. 2 Level Advisor
      2 Level Advisor 23 November 2021 07: 41
      +3
      You are inaccurate - the Japanese have access to the sea and without islands from the north of Hokaido and the right to fish there, which they use all the time .. and precisely from the point of view of the extraction of biological resources, for this reason, nothing will change much in the existing situation, go to some then the image of the island of the Yapam ... but in general in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk (on a large part in the center) and now it is not forbidden for the Yapam to fish .. it is forbidden to climb to the bottom (crabs, etc.) and fish, etc. no ... but the control of incoming from the ocean is yes ..
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 23 November 2021 09: 08
        +7
        I will say more, we still need to put things in order with our fishing fleet, their quotas and ships and taxes ...
      2. Lynx2000
        Lynx2000 23 November 2021 11: 16
        +4
        Quote: 2 level advisor
        You are inaccurate - the Japanese have access to the sea and without islands from the north of Hokaido and the right to fish there, which they use all the time .. and precisely from the point of view of the extraction of biological resources, for this reason, nothing will change much in the existing situation, go to some then the image of the island of the Yapam ... but in general in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk (on a large part in the center) and now it is not forbidden for the Yapam to fish .. it is forbidden to climb to the bottom (crabs, etc.) and fish, etc. no ... but the control of incoming from the ocean is yes ..

        That's right, there is, according to the 1982 UN Convention.

        According to the Order of the Federal Fisheries Agency dated April 30, 2021 No. 261 "On measures to implement the Protocol of the 37th session of the Russian-Japanese Mixed Commission on Fisheries and the Protocol of Russian-Japanese intergovernmental consultations on the fishing of salmon of Russian origin by Japanese fishing vessels in 200 -mile zone of the Russian Federation in 2021 "dated May 27, 2021. It is determined:

        2. Distribute for the Japanese Party in the exclusive economic zone of the Russian Federation (hereinafter - the EEZ of Russia) in the North Kuril zone in the area bounded from the south by the parallel of 46 ° 35 ′ N, from the east - by the meridian 156 ° 00 ′ E ., from the north and west - by the border of the territorial sea of ​​the Russian Federation, as well as in the area bounded by a line connecting points with coordinates 49 ° 00 ′ north latitude. - 156 ° 00 ′ E, 49 ° 00 ′ N - 157 ° 00 ′ E, 46 ° 35 ′ N - 157 ° 00 ′ E, 46 ° 35 N - 156 ° 00 ′ E, in 2021 the quotas for the production (catch) of salmon of Russian origin in the amount of 125 tons, including sockeye - 15 tons, chum salmon - 24 tons, pink salmon - 81 tons, coho salmon - 3 tons, chinook salmon - 2 tons.

        3. The representative of the Federal Agency for Fishery in Japan (Ushakov E.Yu.), the Department of the Fleet, Ports and International Cooperation (Simakov S.V.) and the Department of Budgetary Policy and Organization of Revenue Administration (Suslov D.M.) ensure control over the timely and complete receipt to the federal budget of funds from the Japanese Party for the quota for the catch (catch) of salmon of Russian origin allocated to the Japanese Party in the EEZ of Russia in 2021 in accordance with paragraph 7 of the Protocol of intergovernmental consultations.

        If I am not mistaken, the above Convention defines what a "National Enclave" is. In the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, the enclave is surrounded by the exclusive economic zone of the Russian Federation only. From this it follows that only Russia can claim the seabed and its subsoil beyond the 200-mile border, also in the industrial fishing areas of the FBG.

        Appendix No. 1 to the Fishing Rules for the Far Eastern Fisheries Basin.
        Areas of harvest (catch), fishing zones (subzones) of the Russian Federation in the Far Eastern fishery basin:
  4. malyvalv
    malyvalv 23 November 2021 06: 15
    +1
    The northern fleet has a much more serious task. Blocking the Atlantic for the movement of troops from the United States to Europe. At the same time, given the presence of icebreakers, the Northern Fleet can quickly and safely relocate and provide assistance to the Pacific Fleet through the Northern Sea Route.
    1. Bez 310
      Bez 310 23 November 2021 08: 26
      0
      Quote: malyvalv
      The northern fleet has a much more serious task. Blocking the Atlantic for the movement of troops from the United States to Europe.

      I doubt it ...
      Remember the actions of the Federation Council during the Second World War.
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 23 November 2021 08: 52
        -2
        So it's not those times, and even more so the technique is completely different. You know this better than most.
        1. Bez 310
          Bez 310 23 November 2021 09: 25
          -1
          Quote: Ros 56
          the technique is completely different

          What is the other?
          We have no "other" equipment, the same handful of ships, but now also without aviation.
          Where will we "block" the Atlantic?
          1. Ros 56
            Ros 56 23 November 2021 09: 31
            +1
            Why block it, this Atlantic? Yes, and with the technique you are obviously excited, do we really use the technique of the Second World War? Well, the Germans had battleships in the north and .......?
            1. Bez 310
              Bez 310 23 November 2021 09: 42
              -1
              Quote: Ros 56
              block this Atlantic?

              It was this super task that I commented on.
              Quote: Ros 56
              Yes, and with the technique you are obviously excited.

              In which place? How many modern ships do we have in the Northern Fleet?
              What is the main task of the Federation Council?
          2. Stepan S
            Stepan S 23 November 2021 15: 54
            0
            Where will we "block" the Atlantic?

            I propose to draw a red line on the contour maps without leaving the base.
      2. Doccor18
        Doccor18 23 November 2021 08: 52
        +4
        Quote: Bez 310
        Remember the actions of the Federation Council during the Second World War.

        And what was he like during WWII?
        Admiral Scheer walked with impunity in the Arctic ...
        If the Fleet does not have ships, then how can it complete the tasks ...
        1. Bez 310
          Bez 310 23 November 2021 09: 26
          -1
          Quote: Doccor18
          how can he complete tasks ...

          What tasks?
          1. Doccor18
            Doccor18 23 November 2021 09: 30
            +2
            Yes, even the most elementary ones - the protection of their own borders and shipping in territorial waters.
            1. Bez 310
              Bez 310 23 November 2021 09: 39
              -1
              Quote: Doccor18
              in territorial waters.

              Do you even understand what you wrote yourself?
              Where is the territorial waters?
              1. Doccor18
                Doccor18 23 November 2021 09: 59
                +3
                Quote: Bez 310
                Do you even understand what you yourself wrote

                Are you smart?
                When an enemy cruiser from the main battery hits the port, where is it? When are transports drowned in the roadstead? What's the difference, in the territorial 12 miles, adjacent or exclusive economic waters, merchant and warships are sunk. The fleet must ensure the protection of national borders and shipping, first and foremost. But he can do this only when the presence of forces allows ...
                1. Bez 310
                  Bez 310 23 November 2021 10: 06
                  -2
                  Quote: Doccor18
                  The fleet must ensure the protection of national borders and shipping,

                  I'm simplifying, of course, but BRAV is quite enough for this.
                  1. Doccor18
                    Doccor18 23 November 2021 10: 13
                    +3
                    That in the days of Admiral Ushakov, that in WWII ships were able to "plug" coastal batteries ...
                    With the advent of anti-ship missiles, the process has more or less improved, but it is almost impossible to reliably cover all ports, and the naval aviation is on the wane. The ship is more versatile, although the roads are unbearable ...
                    1. Bez 310
                      Bez 310 23 November 2021 10: 21
                      0
                      Quote: Doccor18
                      The ship is more versatile, although the roads are unbearable ...

                      I agree with the second part, but I will not discuss the first. And the main task of our fleet is not to protect borders and transport, but to ensure the combat stability of SSBNs. Honestly, now and with this it is bad, as far as I understand the current situation.
                      1. Doccor18
                        Doccor18 23 November 2021 10: 26
                        +2
                        Quote: Bez 310
                        And the main task of our fleet ... is to ensure the combat stability of the SSBN.

                        Certainly.
                        But there are still many tasks that cannot be solved by nuclear deterrence. After all, the Fleet is versatile, perhaps even more versatile than aviation ...
                      2. Bez 310
                        Bez 310 23 November 2021 10: 44
                        +1
                        Quote: Doccor18
                        But there are many more tasks

                        It seems to me that the main task of the fleet, after the SSBNs, is the maintenance of a huge number of admirals who come up with various "tasks" so that they are not dispersed.
                        All this is funny and sad, and I don't see any movement to correct the situation.
                      3. Doccor18
                        Doccor18 23 November 2021 11: 30
                        +3
                        Quote: Bez 310
                        All this is funny and sad

                        Rather tragic ...
                      4. Stepan S
                        Stepan S 23 November 2021 15: 59
                        0
                        It seems to me that the main task of the fleet, after the SSBN OBU, is the maintenance of a huge number of admirals

                        In all exercises, after the withdrawal of the nuclear submarine from Krasheninnikov Bay, the "war" was considered over for the entire surface fleet. Well, the admirals, they are concentrated in Moscow, what to do in the north and the Far East.
                      5. Bez 310
                        Bez 310 23 November 2021 16: 04
                        +1
                        Quote: Stepan S
                        what to do in the north and the Far East.

                        There they receive this title, but the next stage is Moscow.
                      6. 76SSSR
                        76SSSR 23 November 2021 14: 18
                        +1
                        Quote: Bez 310
                        ensuring the combat stability of the SSBN. Honestly, now and with this it is bad, as far as I understand the current situation.

                        The main threat to our SSBNs is created by enemy nuclear submarines, and therefore anti-submarine forces should be the basis for the defense of combat patrol areas. The necessary build-up and strengthening of the ship composition of our fleets requires time and money, but measures are being taken. In general, the future belongs to the nuclear submarine, we need "plarks" and as much as possible, I'm tired of repeating this already.
                        By the way, about SSBNs ... There is an opinion that it is impossible to solve the problem of ensuring the combat stability of SSBNs by military-technical measures alone. They propose to resort to military-political measures - to amend the "Fundamentals of State Policy in the Field of Nuclear Deterrence", stating in them that "the destruction of even one of our SSBNs is regarded as an unacceptable strike against our strategic nuclear forces, as a result of which we are moving on to the full-scale use of nuclear weapons ". How do you like this "paper" SSBN cover?)
                      7. Vladimir1155
                        Vladimir1155 24 November 2021 09: 22
                        0
                        Quote: 76SSSR
                        even one of our SSBNs is viewed as an unacceptable strike against our strategic nuclear forces, as a result of which we are moving on to the full-scale use of nuclear weapons. "How do you like this" paper "SSBN cover?)

                        support
                    2. Alexey RA
                      Alexey RA 23 November 2021 15: 06
                      +1
                      Quote: Doccor18
                      That in the days of Admiral Ushakov, that in WWII ships were able to "plug" coastal batteries ...

                      In the case you mentioned in the North, "Scheer" could not do this.
                      Although he was opposed by two field guns from the last war in positions that were urgently equipped right in the port.
                      1. Doccor18
                        Doccor18 23 November 2021 15: 25
                        +1
                        I absolutely agree with you, but ... He walked almost "like at home." And if he had gotten something along the way, it would have been a tragedy. And, with all the desire, the KSF could not oppose anything to this campaign.
                        And the suppression of coastal batteries, after all, is a purely group matter. For lone raiders, such tasks are completely atypical.
      3. Sandor Clegane
        Sandor Clegane 23 November 2021 15: 34
        0
        Quote: Bez 310
        Remember the actions of the SF during the Second World War

        remembered, and what did the Northern Fleet represent in WWII? in the main submarines of the surface combat fleet there was practically no
        1. svp67
          svp67 27 November 2021 19: 32
          -1
          Quote: Sandor Clegane
          remembered, and what did the Northern Fleet represent in WWII? in the main submarines of the surface combat fleet there was practically no

          And who then ensured the acceptance of convoys in the Soviet zone and their escort to Murmansk, who ensured the protection of navigation on the NSR and the actions of amphibious assault forces?
          You judge the numerical strength of the Northern Fleet at the beginning of the war, and during the war years it has changed both quantitatively and qualitatively ...
          As of June 22, 1941, the Northern Fleet included 8 destroyers, 15 submarines (they were brought together to a submarine brigade of the Northern Fleet), 7 patrol ships, 1 minelayer, 2 minesweepers, 14 patrol boats, auxiliary ships.
          During the war years, the fleet was replenished:
          - 130 civil ships were transferred for mobilization, which were converted into 28 minesweepers, 21 patrol ships, 4 minelayers, 8 armed icebreakers, 70 boats for various purposes.
          - in the second half of 1941, 8 submarines, 6 torpedo boats, 4 patrol boats were transferred to the fleet along the White Sea-Baltic waterway
          - In 1942, a special expedition EON-18 arrived at the fleet from the Pacific Ocean along the Northern Sea Route: the leader "Baku", the destroyers "Razumny" and "Razyarenny". At the beginning of 1943, 17 submarines [000] also arrived from the Pacific Ocean, having traveled over 5 miles on their own through the Panama Canal, [6] (the sixth, L-16, was sunk by the Japanese in the Pacific Ocean.
          - In 1943, the shipbuilding industry of the USSR transferred 4 submarines to the fleet.
          - In 1944 - 3 submarines, 8 large and 2 small submarine hunters.
          But the main thing ... Also in 1942-1943 under Lend-Lease, 9 large hunters of the BO-1 type and 12 minesweepers transferred to the US and Great Britain arrived at the fleet.
          In 1944, the battleship Arkhangelsk arrived at the fleet.
          , cruiser "Murmansk"
          and 9 destroyers, which were supplied by the Allies at the expense of the division of the Italian fleet after Italy's withdrawal from the war, were later returned to the USA and Great Britain). In addition, 1944 minesweepers, 3 large hunters, 15 small hunters and 31 torpedo boats were transferred from the Allies in 44. In 1945, the fleet received from the allies 3 minesweepers, 16 large hunters, 22 torpedo boats, 4 landing craft.
          The composition of the fleet on May 9, 1945
          A battleship, a cruiser, 17 destroyers, 51 patrol boats (part supplied under Lend-Lease), 45 submarine hunters (Lend-Lease), 45 minesweepers (20 British-built minesweepers of the MMS type), 56 torpedo boats (G-5 , D-3, Higgis, Vosper (torpedo tubes replaced), 42 submarines (three were transferred to the account of the division of the Italian fleet, one was lost on the transition).
          1. Sandor Clegane
            Sandor Clegane 28 November 2021 13: 36
            +1
            and? ..... why did I post this? my great-uncle served from 40 years in the SF and up to 42 then transferred, as if I know all this, but what kind of SF represented you, you never wrote, only empty statistics on the composition and that is not accurate and rather large inaccuracy
            1. svp67
              svp67 28 November 2021 15: 42
              0
              Quote: Sandor Clegane
              but what the SF was, you never wrote, only empty statistics on the composition and then not accurate and rather large inaccuracy

              But even this statistic completely breaks your argument:
              ... in the main submarine, there was practically no surface combat fleet ...

              There was a surface fleet there, so moreover, it increased from year to year and apparently was the most active and active of all the fleets of the USSR, in any case, it did not hide in the bases ...
              1. Sandor Clegane
                Sandor Clegane 28 November 2021 16: 38
                +1
                Quote: svp67
                But even this statistic completely breaks your argument:
                ... in the main submarine, there was practically no surface combat fleet ...

                this is the biggest inaccuracy - the main combat activity until 42 was carried out by submarines
                Well, you also did not indicate correctly on the destroyers, and just describe these destroyers and what kind of battlefield did they perform?
                1. svp67
                  svp67 28 November 2021 16: 50
                  0
                  Quote: Sandor Clegane
                  Well, you also did not indicate correctly on the destroyers, and just describe these destroyers and what kind of battlefield did they perform?

                  It's not interesting with you, you jump from statement to statement, not caring at all about what you said earlier ... you want to know something, so read more, start with this
                  "Destroyers of the Northern Fleet in operations to protect polar convoys in the Great Patriotic War"
                  https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/eskadrennye-minonostsy-severnogo-flota-v-operatsiyah-po-zaschite-polyarnyh-konvoev-v-velikoy-otechestvennoy-voyne/viewer
                  1. Sandor Clegane
                    Sandor Clegane 29 November 2021 13: 28
                    +1
                    Quote: svp67
                    It's not interesting with you, you jump from statement to statement, not caring at all about what you said earlier ... you want to know something, so read more, start with this

                    like
                    Quote: svp67
                    "Destroyers of the Northern Fleet in operations to protect polar convoys in the Great Patriotic War"

                    compare the work of the PL and EM and you will see a huge difference
                    Quote: svp67
                    Funny you ...

                    either children, or fools, or provocateurs become personalities ... choose
        2. svp67
          svp67 28 November 2021 10: 45
          0
          Quote: Sandor Clegane
          remembered

          Funny you ...
    2. Flank
      Flank 23 November 2021 11: 23
      +1
      Everything is fine, but the Bering Strait.
  5. Lair
    Lair 23 November 2021 06: 50
    +12
    About the economic significance of the Kuriles, read here:
    http://rareearth.ru/ru/pub/20161206/02745.html
    The strategic importance of the Kurils is enormous, it is the Kurils that allow us to completely control the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, the Kuriles are a pistol at the head of Japan, one of the key points of the Far East.
    It is necessary to strengthen the Pacific Fleet, and this can be done quickly only by transferring the corvettes and the TFR project 11540 from the Baltic Fleet. And most importantly - the air defense of the islands, including aviation, infantry and coastal missile systems with anti-ship missiles BAL - this must be done right now.
    1. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 23 November 2021 08: 09
      -1
      Quote: Lair
      It is necessary to strengthen the Pacific Fleet, and this can be done quickly only by transferring the corvettes and the TFR project 11540 from the Baltic Fleet. And most importantly - the air defense of the islands, including aviation, infantry and coastal missile systems with anti-ship missiles BAL - this must be done right now.

      everything is correct, so it should be done
    2. slm976
      slm976 23 November 2021 09: 27
      +5
      It is necessary to strengthen the Pacific Fleet, and this can be done quickly only by transferring the corvettes and the TFR project 11540 from the Baltic Fleet.

      And 20380 and 11540 are mainly anti-submarine ships ... of course they will also come in handy in the Pacific Fleet, for escorting convoys and ASW ship groups, or in Kamchatka, to ensure the deployment of submarine missile carriers, but in the defense of the Kuriles, their usefulness is questionable ...

      Moreover, even if we transfer the entire SF and BF to the Far East, the Japanese will still have an advantage in the quantity and quality of the BNKs available.

      And most importantly - the air defense of the islands, including aviation, infantry and coastal missile systems with anti-ship missiles BAL - this must be done right now.


      The Kuril Islands are located at such a small distance from Japan that it is stupid to concentrate air defense systems and coastal complexes there, there is no penetrable air defense, the Japanese, if they wish, can always form the necessary outfit of forces and destroy our troops concentrated on the islands, and without leaving their airspace and territorial waters.
      Moreover, since the initiative is on their side and we ourselves are not going to attack them, our position (the position of the defender) will be deliberately losing in this situation.
      The concentration of troops on the Kuril Islands is a deliberate loss of equipment and soldiers, without any result.

      It is necessary to create such a situation when our retaliatory strike against the attack will be deliberately unacceptable for the enemy. After all, the Japanese need to capture the Kuril Islands, that is, to carry out an amphibious operation .. in my opinion, to prevent such an operation, we have certain capabilities, including tactical nuclear weapons and their delivery vehicles. And I very much doubt that someone will harness for Japan, in the event of the destruction of their landing forces with nuclear weapons, without striking the Japanese territory itself.
      1. Alexander Petrov
        Alexander Petrov 23 November 2021 14: 27
        0
        But how can the Japs do it? Let me remind you that their IA is focused on air defense, the F-15J is still very much nothing, but they do not carry shock weapons. And their drummers are F-2 (creatively rethought F-16 with UAB). There is nothing like Caliber / Iskander or Dagger and not close. Maximum sawn anti-ballistic missile.
        1. slm976
          slm976 23 November 2021 15: 01
          0
          But how can the Japs do it? Let me remind you that their IA is focused on air defense, the F-15J is still very much nothing, but they do not carry shock weapons. And their drummers are F-2 (creatively rethought F-16 with UAB). There is nothing like Caliber / Iskander or Dagger and not close. Maximum sawn anti-ballistic missile.


          At such a distance, they have enough artillery (((.
          But seriously, you can send guided air missiles to the surface on any plane of the self-defense forces, there would be a desire and money, besides, you forgot about the Japanese F-35, there are not many of them yet, but they are and there will be more of them ...
          As for the Calibers, everything is also not so simple, the Japanese destroyers carry the Mk-41 UVL, which religion will not allow the United States to sell them the required number of Tomahawks?
          1. Alexander Petrov
            Alexander Petrov 23 November 2021 15: 17
            0
            Attention is a question. And the Japanese BIUS on destroyers is able to play Tomahawks?
            F-35 yes - I agree, but how is their operational readiness now ...
            The artel does not get it, except from the sea ... 5 ", but these are the risks of getting an anti-ship missile system (corvette Hanit confirms), only MLRS and coastal anti-ship missile complexes sawn in the Kyrgyz Republic.

            I'm not going to throw hats at the Japs, but the island defense is a very, very difficult goal, where time is the key factor. It plays against the Japanese.
            1. slm976
              slm976 23 November 2021 15: 30
              0
              Attention is a question. And the Japanese BIUS on destroyers is able to play Tomahawks?


              I don’t know, but I suppose that even if he doesn’t know how, this is a question that can be easily resolved ... especially with regard to the Tomagavks, who fly according to coordinates entered in advance into the rocket ...
              1. Alexander Petrov
                Alexander Petrov 23 November 2021 16: 32
                0
                Well, this game can be played together. We are also strengthening the group in the Far East. Shaposhnikov in the ranks. Thundering and Agile will soon be there.
                The S-400 is already in Sakhalin. Iskanders from the same Sakhalin shoot through Hokkaido. The caliber range in non-nuclear equipment is 1400 km. Onyxes from Bastion only officially fly 450 km.
                1. slm976
                  slm976 23 November 2021 19: 01
                  0
                  ... Well, this game can be played together.

                  So you can play this game, the problem is in the number of pennants in our country and in the Japanese, painfully unequal conditions will be in this game ...

                  .Caliber range in non-nuclear equipment is 1400 km. Onyxes from Bastion only officially fly 450 km.


                  At the Pacific Fleet, we will have 4 carriers of calibers (when the Gremyashchiy and 2 Varshavyankas reach Vladivostok), 40 calibers for the entire fleet, and that's all for now ..
                  Iskander, Bastion, S-400 ... this is all great, but it will not save anyone, because this is not enough ...
                  The initiative will be for the Japanese, and they know perfectly well what we have and where all this is located, they will simply overload the capabilities of our air defense and destroy it all ..
                  1. Alexander Petrov
                    Alexander Petrov 24 November 2021 00: 00
                    0
                    You did not understand. The range allows you to work from the Vladivostok raid. Who will drown with what then? Attack the Fleet base covered by the S-400 and MiG-31BM? Well, you can try ... especially 2 times they did it. But then let them not be offended by the heat and light on the land of Yamato. Calibers from Iskander on Sakhalin. And why is it suddenly not enough of them? X-101 from bombers YES You forgot to count?
                    The battle for the Kuril Islands is not about the sea. It's about air.
                    1. slm976
                      slm976 24 November 2021 09: 36
                      0
                      You did not understand.

                      Maybe....

                      The range allows you to work from the Vladivostok raid. Who will drown with what then? Attack the Navy base covered by the S-400 and MiG-31BM? Well, you can try ..


                      Range of what? Attack who? If you mean the ZM-14 cruise missile, then yes, its range will allow attacking ground targets in Japan ... but how will this help us in protecting the Kuriles? In addition, on a salvo of our 4 carriers of 40 missiles, the Japanese can pour 10 times more Tomahawks ... only money is all here limited)))

                      The battle for the Kuril Islands is not about the sea. It's about air


                      It's good that you reminded about this, and now estimate the distance to the disputed islands from our military airfields and from the Japanese ... dry!
                      1. Alexander Petrov
                        Alexander Petrov 24 November 2021 10: 05
                        0
                        Exactly! Military attack and double infra-ry. Airbases and ports are a priority target. We have airfields in Iturup, Sakhalin, Yelizovo in Kamchatka, and a few near Vladik and KnA. We can work on their AVB. They are not, according to ours, or extremely limited. For without the CD, only the Fu-35e remain. I believe that the AvB in Hokkaido will be "silenced" within a week

                        In addition, in the air we have a "trump card in the sleeve" - ​​the MiG-31BM with the R-37M airborne missile system. Well, the Su-57x squadron will hopefully be there by that time. And the Su-35S is a gorgeous plane. There are 2 such regiments in the Far East. Although the refusal of further purchases in anticipation of the Su-57, in my opinion, is a mistake
                      2. slm976
                        slm976 24 November 2021 10: 32
                        0
                        This song is good, start over ....
                        When attacking the territory of Japan proper, we will have to deal not only with their fleet, but with the American one. Hello, World War III, nuclear war.
                        You have a good plan !!!
                      3. Alexander Petrov
                        Alexander Petrov 24 November 2021 12: 49
                        0
                        If we studied those American papers that Timokhin voiced by the way, they would understand that the Americans really want to force us to some kind of "knightly duel" on favorable terms for them.

                        Those. not to use nuclear weapons, including tactical nuclear weapons, and deliberately limit the combat zone. Those. for example, the battle for KOR, no Suvali corridors and our liberation of the Baltic states. But the General Staff does not agree with this and will not play by their rules.

                        Those. they just understand and are very afraid of our adequate response to the actions of their gaskets. And your proposal not to hit the territory of Japan just plays into their hands.
                      4. Alexander Petrov
                        Alexander Petrov 24 November 2021 13: 12
                        +1
                        However, your idea, as I understand it, to hit the anti-ship missile system with the SBCH on DESO / AUG is also normal. It does not interfere
                      5. slm976
                        slm976 24 November 2021 13: 28
                        +1
                        However, your idea, as I understand it, to hit the anti-ship missile system with the SBCH on DESO / AUG is also normal. It does not interfere

                        It's a deal then)). Only I was planning an aircraft missile with an SBS, from a strategist) ...
                        2 potential criminals against humanity have agreed))). ..
      2. Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 24 November 2021 09: 26
        -1
        Quote: slm976
        It is necessary to create such a situation when our retaliatory strike against the attack will be deliberately unacceptable for the enemy. After all, the Japanese need to capture the Kuril Islands, that is, to carry out an amphibious operation .. in my opinion, to prevent such an operation, we have certain capabilities, including tactical nuclear weapons and their delivery vehicles. And I very much doubt that someone will harness for Japan, in the event of the destruction of their landing forces with nuclear weapons, without striking the Japanese territory itself.

        conclusion the security of the Kuril Islands is not in Vladivosotok and not on the Kuriles themselves (where enough ground forces are needed so that the Japanese cannot enter there peacefully), the security of the Far East is in Petropavlovsk (SSBN), and that is where the SSBN support fleet should be, and not in Vladik
    3. Barberry25
      Barberry25 23 November 2021 12: 44
      -1
      so that if they were drowned and burned too?
    4. Alexander Petrov
      Alexander Petrov 23 November 2021 14: 22
      0
      18th pool with tanks and artillery. And there it is precisely based on the Balov and Bastion division. On Kunashir it is kind of like a Ball, on Iturup Bastion. Hire Thors on each of the islands. It seems like there were Buki (but this is not accurate). The S-400 is deployed on Sakhalin.

      Corvettes 20380, Thank God, continued to be built at the ASZ. But they should be based on Kamchatka, not Vladik.
  6. KKND
    KKND 23 November 2021 06: 55
    .
    Quote: Roman Skomorokhov
    But in 1945, the Soviet Union denounced the treaty and immediately went on the offensive, scattering the Kwantung Army and liberating Mongolia and part of China. Well, taking back his own in the form of Sakhalin and the Kuriles. The winners, you know, always take their toll, what claims can there be?

    The novel did not tell the whole truth why the USSR denounced the treaty in 1945. After the defeat of Hitler's Germany, the USSR, as an ally of the United States, was supposed to enter the war with Japan under the treaties.
    But "Uncle Joe" was in no hurry to fulfill his obligations, not at all willing to help the United States. Then the Americans dropped atomic bombs and Stalin, fearing that he might be next, immediately attacked Japan. The Japanese were very offended, understanding everything. With the United States, they had an honest "hack", and then a knife in the back because of cowardice.
    1. lelik613
      lelik613 23 November 2021 07: 57
      +5
      After 1905, we don't owe them anything.
    2. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 23 November 2021 08: 16
      -9
      Quote: KKND
      But "Uncle Joe" was in no hurry to fulfill his obligations, not at all willing to help the United States. Then the Americans dropped atomic bombs and Stalin, fearing that he might be next, immediately attacked Japan.

      not true, the Americans dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in order not to give Stalin the promised northern part of Hokaido, the Americans deceived us! but justice will prevail if the Japanese are more treacherously attacked on the Russian Federation, then the northern part promised to Russia for its efforts to defeat the Kwantung army, Hokkaido will pass to Russia in justice!
      1. Sandor Clegane
        Sandor Clegane 23 November 2021 15: 36
        +1
        Quote: vladimir1155
        if the Japanese are more treacherously attacked on the Russian Federation, then the northern part promised to Russia for its efforts to defeat the Kwantung army, Hokkaido will pass to Russia in justice!

        exhale beaver !!!
    3. Stas157
      Stas157 23 November 2021 09: 35
      +1
      Quote: KKND
      "uncle joe" was in no hurry to fulfill his obligations, not wanting to help the United States at all. Then the Americans dropped atomic bombs and Stalin, fearing that he might be next, immediately attacked Japan.

      I mean, not in a hurry? Was he supposed to attack the Japanese the next day after the victory?
      But what about the strategic planning of the operation? And the concentration of forces thousands of kilometers from Germany! You, as a "commander", do not take this into account? Preparations for any major operation take months to complete. The Germans had been preparing Operation Citadel for about six months.
      I believe that Stalin attacked the Japanese with absolutely no delay.
      1. KKND
        KKND 23 November 2021 10: 50
        -7
        Quote: Stas157
        I believe that Stalin attacked the Japanese with absolutely no delay.

        Yeah, August 9th, right after the bombing. Coincidence? winked
        1. timokhin-aa
          timokhin-aa 23 November 2021 14: 13
          +3
          You are right, the USSR transferred several million soldiers to the Far East and deployed them into a well-coordinated grouping in a couple of days.
          1. KKND
            KKND 23 November 2021 14: 30
            -3
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            You are right, the USSR transferred several million soldiers to the Far East and deployed them into a well-coordinated grouping in a couple of days.

            Timokhin, I do not know why you are so hot. I basically had complaints about Mina and not as a person, but to his invented materials. My opinion you shouldn't have contacted him.
            Now to the heart of the matter. You can throw soldiers at any time. Soldiers can be deployed and can expect the order of the years.
            Yes, and deal with the topic of over-the-horizon radars on ships as a specialist, otherwise, according to your articles, it turned out that they do not exist in nature at all. Identification of enemy ships over the horizon is possible using the backscatter method if the enemy "loses". You can reconnoitre an approximate area from the air and launch an anti-ship missile, knowing that there are no civilian ships there.
            1. timokhin-aa
              timokhin-aa 23 November 2021 14: 35
              +2
              Yes, and deal with the topic of over-the-horizon radars on ships as a specialist, otherwise, according to your articles, it turned out that they do not exist in nature at all.


              Give an example of a ZGRLS on a ship.

              You can reconnoitre an approximate area from the air and launch an anti-ship missile, knowing that there are no civilian ships there.


              There are no civilian courts right here, of course.
              1. KKND
                KKND 23 November 2021 15: 04
                -1
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                Give an example of a ZGRLS on a ship.

                Our ships are full of them. For example, the Monolith on the Tarantula working in the C range. I worked on one jump, gave a very rough range in good conditions, 180+ km.
                Есть на Оводе Титанит до 120 км в хороших условиях. Тоже один скачок.https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%82_(%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%85%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B0)
                The humble Mosquito is also an over-the-horizon radar. Or do you think Komar would launch its 80 km rockets without flying radars in the early 60s? I did not find an article from Wiki about his radar (have you deleted chtoli?) But here's a link for you: http: //cmano-db.com/pdf/sensor/1556/
                You yourself understand that the radio horizon for the Mosquito pr 205 kilometers 30-40 should be even taking into account the diffraction. How should he launch rockets then?
                Here are examples of American ZGRLS on the ships AN \ SRS-1A Combat DFK blk 1 on DDG 104. Very powerful Radar for 500 nautical miles.
                There are really a lot of them.
                Edit, AN \ SRS-1A Combat DFK blk 1 is not a radar, but a passive system, but I can look for the Americans' ZGRLS, they are
            2. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 23 November 2021 15: 23
              +4
              Quote: KKND
              Soldiers can be deployed and can wait years for orders.

              The problem is that they were already deployed on the original ones - often in a bare field. The same tank army at the end of summer in a field camp in the middle of the Mongolian steppe can wait for an order for a very short time - a couple of months. Either advance, or go into the equipped PPD closer to the supply nodes.
              Leaving it longer is like leaving a weapon ready to fire on the breastwork of a trench for a week.
              1. KKND
                KKND 23 November 2021 15: 34
                -3
                Well, you need to know the details, but here's what Vika writes
                During May - early August, the Soviet command transferred to the Far East part of the troops that had been released in the west (over 400 thousand people, 7137 guns and mortars, 2119 tanks and self-propelled guns, etc.)

                On August 9, the day the American Air Force detonated the atomic bomb over Nagasaki, the advance and reconnaissance detachments of the three Soviet fronts launched an offensive.

                What is there to argue with? Of course, the Soviet command took care of the logistics from the beginning of May.
                It remains for the urapatriots to say that it was all a coincidence.
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 23 November 2021 16: 06
                  +2
                  Quote: KKND
                  What is there to argue with? Of course, the Soviet command took care of the logistics from the beginning of May.

                  The Soviet command was engaged in logistics until August. In the same 39th A, after a march to the waiting area in mid-July (320-360 km), the shortcomings were eliminated for two weeks after that.
                  By the way, the original army began to advance on a planned basis. 2 August (another 120 km of the march).
                  On August 1, we reported to the Military Council of the Trans-Baikal Front about the readiness of the army's troops to carry out a combat mission.
                  From that day on, the whole life of the army went on at an even more accelerated pace.
                  On the night of August 2, the front allowed the troops to be withdrawn to their starting position for the offensive. We made a new, most difficult 120-kilometer march to the southeastern end of the Tamsag-Bulak ledge for three nights.
                  © Boyko
                  Neither Hiroshima nor Nagasaki has yet been - and the army is already deploying for the offensive. By August 5, the march was completed, another three days to pull up the lagging behind and replenish the reserves spent on the march - and on August 9 the infantry went to Solun and Hailar.
                  1. KKND
                    KKND 23 November 2021 16: 16
                    -2
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    By the way, the army began to advance on the original on August 2 (another 120 km of the march).

                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    Neither Hiroshima nor Nagasaki has yet been - and the army is already deploying for the offensive. By August 5, the march was completed, another three days to pull up the lagging behind and replenish the reserves spent on the march - and on August 9 the infantry went to Solun and Hailar.

                    You know, I thought, and all the same, my dates do not agree. Even if we assume that Stalin was scared already on August 6, less than 3 days for everything about everything, is not enough.
                    So my version of events, the campaign is wrong. I don’t remember where I read all this, maybe I thought of it myself, but the dates do not agree.
                    So it looks like I was wrong. Thank you, Alexey for the constructive comments, unlike other members of the forum (we will not point the finger wassat ).
            3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Barberry25
      Barberry25 23 November 2021 12: 47
      +3
      oo, another expert..and Stalin apparently threw his troops to the East in 3 days? earlier on the cap and were afraid that they would again get rid of the group on the border)
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 23 November 2021 13: 25
        -3
        They are afraid that Japan can get away from our strategic aviation well - in the first raid, it can unleash 800 cruise missiles on it.
      2. KKND
        KKND 23 November 2021 14: 32
        -2
        Quote: Barberry25
        oo, another expert ... and Stalin apparently threw the troops to the East in 3 days? and about the "knife in the back"

        And where did you get the idea that Stalin threw the troops after the bombing. They had been there for a long time, but the order to advance was given on August 9.
        1. Barberry25
          Barberry25 23 November 2021 14: 37
          -1
          those. It turns out that Stalin did not want to fulfill his obligations, but for some reason he threw a large military grouping, conducted reconnaissance, made plans and carried out an offensive ... and yes, the "order to advance" was given on the 7th after the completion of the report on the readiness of the troops)
          1. KKND
            KKND 23 November 2021 15: 14
            -2
            Quote: Barberry25
            and yes, the "order to advance" was issued on the 7th after the completion of the report on the readiness of the troops)

            Quote: Wikipedia
            On August 9, the day the American Air Force detonated the atomic bomb over Nagasaki, the advance and reconnaissance detachments of the three Soviet fronts launched an offensive.

            https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%8C%D1%87%D0%B6%D1%83%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8F_(1945)
            Quote: Barberry25
            oo, another expert .. and Stalin apparently threw the troops to the East in 3 days?

            Quote: Wikipedia
            During May - early August, the Soviet command transferred to the Far East part of the troops that had been released in the west (over 400 thousand people, 7137 guns and mortars, 2119 tanks and self-propelled guns, etc.)

            Sorry, are you lying?
            1. Barberry25
              Barberry25 23 November 2021 17: 02
              -1
              no, you are lying) because what did you sing above? that Stalin did not want to fulfill his obligations? and then it turns out that within a few months a large group of troops was deployed at a distance of 5,5 thousand km ... Or, in your opinion, already on May 10 the offensive was supposed to begin? and yes ... you need to read not about the operation, but about the war:
              At 16:30 pm on August 7, J.V. Stalin and Chief of the General Staff A.I. August fighting against Japan [11122]. On August 1, at 2:9 Moscow time, People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs of the USSR V.M. Japan [27] [8] [17]. The declaration of war in Tokyo was learned at 00 o'clock on August 9 through an intercepted radio transmission [21]. Thus, the war was declared exactly 28 months after the victory of the countries of the anti-Hitler coalition in Europe [29].
              1. KKND
                KKND 23 November 2021 17: 10
                0
                Quote: Barberry25
                yes no, you are lying) because what did you sing above? that Stalin did not want to fulfill his obligations?

                I wasn’t lying, I was wrong. Next time I will double-check my versions before posting them on the forum.
                1. Barberry25
                  Barberry25 23 November 2021 18: 10
                  -1
                  hi well then all the best
            2. Barberry25
              Barberry25 23 November 2021 17: 04
              0
              By the way, it's funny to read about "the Americans hit to force Stalin" when the Americans admit that the nuclear bombing was carried out with the aim of demonstrating nuclear weapons.
    5. Alexander Petrov
      Alexander Petrov 23 November 2021 15: 08
      +1
      What are white and fluffy Japs drawing here?
      Remind Nanjing Massacre? Or Detachment 731?
      1. KKND
        KKND 23 November 2021 16: 05
        -1
        Quote: Alexander Petrov
        What are white and fluffy Japs drawing here?
        Remind Nanjing Massacre? Or Detachment 731?

        Draw white and fluffy Japs entirely in your imagination.
        Exhale.
    6. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 23 November 2021 15: 18
      +2
      Quote: KKND
      But "Uncle Joe" was in no hurry to fulfill his obligations, not at all willing to help the United States. Then the Americans dropped atomic bombs and Stalin, fearing that he might be next, immediately attacked Japan.

      Uncle Joe, if he was frightened, was only that Japan would suddenly surrender - and the USSR would not have time to mark in this war in order to claim later on a piece of the pie in the division of the Empire.
      In the Manchurian operation, the USSR first of all solved its own tasks - to remove an unfriendly state from the borders and return what was lost in the RYA and earlier.
  7. tone
    tone 23 November 2021 07: 09
    +16
    The economic value of the Kuril Islands is zero .... This is how the stuffing begins for the approval of the transfer of the islands to Japan.
    Does the author know anything about the term inland sea?
    That thanks to the "internal" crab and fish only belong to Russia in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk.
    And what about the oil shelf that has just begun to be developed?
    Sakhalin-1, Sakhalin-2 have you heard anything?
    And there is understanding about the free exit of KTOF into the ocean.
    The article is mediocre.
    Especially funny about SF.
    Despite the fact that he opposes the fleets of England, Norway.
    The author at least read about the US exercises this year in the area of ​​the Northern Fleet.
    Of course, KTOF needs to be developed, but the Russian Federation does not have shipbuilding forces for this.
    20350 years in 10 may appear.
    IMHO a way out to buy from the Chinese "brothers" their type 54 frigates for their anti-ship missiles and air defense systems.
    In a couple of years, they would quickly make 10 ships for us.
    1. Bez 310
      Bez 310 23 November 2021 08: 29
      -2
      Quote: tone
      Despite the fact that he opposes the fleets of England, Norway.

      And how?
      Does the Federation Council have the strength to "resist" someone?
      1. Stepan S
        Stepan S 23 November 2021 16: 04
        -2
        Do you think Britain has a navy?
        1. tone
          tone 24 November 2021 04: 15
          0
          Britain has a normal fleet, including SSBNs.
        2. Bez 310
          Bez 310 24 November 2021 08: 07
          +2
          Quote: Stepan S
          Does Britain have a navy?

          NATO has a fleet.
      2. tone
        tone 24 November 2021 04: 14
        0
        There are few forces, but the author -> the author -> the author claims that there is no one to resist the Fleet at all, there are no threats in the North.
    2. kig
      kig 23 November 2021 11: 56
      -4
      Quote: tone
      And there is understanding about the free exit of KTOF into the ocean

      for some reason, when they talk about the Kuril Islands, they always remember about the free exit of the Pacific Fleet into the ocean, which the islands allegedly provide. These are probably those who say who do not look at the map.
      1. kig
        kig 23 November 2021 15: 49
        +1
        Someone unhappy? Then tell us how our ships, in the event of a conflict, go out into the ocean through the La Perouse Strait, or Tsugaru, or Tsushima. Tatar not to offer.
        1. kig
          kig 24 November 2021 04: 59
          0
          Cons do not shake at all. Annoying is the silent stubbornness of the miners.
      2. Stepan S
        Stepan S 23 November 2021 16: 07
        -1
        These are probably those who say who do not look at the map.

        Geography is a pseudoscience, they say. They read it somewhere and repeat it, without bothering to look at the map.
    3. Vadim237
      Vadim237 23 November 2021 13: 27
      -4
      "IMHO a way out to buy from the Chinese" brothers "their type 54 frigates for their anti-ship missiles and air defense systems.
      In a couple of years, they would quickly make 10 ships for us. "And those that will start to break down and fall apart in 3 - 4 years, since the quality of these ships is appropriate.
      1. tone
        tone 24 November 2021 04: 22
        0
        Proofs for the quality of the ships will be or trawl. Pakistanis are happy to take more.
    4. Barberry25
      Barberry25 23 November 2021 17: 14
      -3
      will not be built in a couple of years, they will be building for at least 10 years, when the Pacific Fleet will receive, in addition to 4 available, 8 more corvettes, 3 frigates, 6 mrk ..
      1. tone
        tone 24 November 2021 04: 24
        0
        They are building themselves. KTOF will not receive any frigates of three frigates, and in 10 years four 1155, Varyag and Bystry frigates will be decommissioned. How are you going to change them? Three hypothetical frigates?
        1. Barberry25
          Barberry25 24 November 2021 09: 28
          -2
          1) another Nostradamus) ... but you can find out why the fleet does not receive 10 frigates in 3 years, provided that they are ALREADY under construction and should be commissioned by the 26th year? Even if the deadlines are shifted, then by 1-2 years, no more .. Further .. BOD 1155 are announced for modernization according to the improved Shaposhnikov .. This is the answer about "three hypothetical frigates", well, not to mention that the corvettes, of which there will be 12 units for a second, have more powerful weapons than the old BOD .. You are the main thing do not forget your words about "KTOF will not receive ships" .. it will be interesting to hear how you will excuse yourself)
          1. tone
            tone 25 November 2021 06: 24
            0
            1) I really hope that 3 frigates will be built, but not a single frigate with a domestic engine has been released yet and their construction period is more than 10 years.
            2) 1155 in 10 years will be more than 45 years, no modernization will save. And the deadline for writing off Shaposhnikov is just in 10 years. With modernization, everyone was criminally late. How many years have passed since Shaposhnikov left the plant, that a new BOD took its place?
            3) Corvettes at least have a non-working air defense system and one helicopter and do not have anti-submarine weapons, this is not enough, a power reserve, autonomy, etc.
            1. Barberry25
              Barberry25 25 November 2021 12: 20
              -2
              so we need Chinese ships that will be inferior in combat capabilities even to corvettes? Is this a corvettes do not have anti-submarine weapons?) By the way .. you decide whether you are at war with Japan, or you need a trip to America?
              1. tone
                tone 26 November 2021 04: 18
                0
                Chinese ships type 054, you would at least read about them the right word ashamed to communicate with you. Developed together with our Northern Design Bureau. Radar equipment or a clone of Russian licensed or generally Russian, Russian GAK, Russian air defense systems Shtil.
                1. Barberry25
                  Barberry25 26 November 2021 16: 53
                  -2
                  you are not the first who runs around here with the idea "let's buy their frigates from the Chinese." low-flying anti-ship missiles are better to have short-range missiles, but the Chinese do not have them ... well, and weaker PLO in the form of 8 anti-torpedoes against our 6, and the package is more powerful than the Yu-8 in terms of performance characteristics. And an important point is the timing of negotiations, approvals, production deployments and the production itself with additional equipment in our country is the same 7 years, and we will either have to curtail the production of corvettes, or put an end to the modernization of BODs, cruisers and submarines due to the lack of sites. Therefore, it is more optimal to intensify work on corvettes 10 and the launch of the MPK on the basis of Karakurt, preferably on Kolomna diesel engines.
                  1. tone
                    tone 28 November 2021 03: 44
                    -1
                    Corvettes will not be built faster. no 10 years. The ships are given back to Pakistan 2,5 years after the contract is signed. RCC we will put our calibers. Calm works in contrast to the redoubt on corvettes. I propose a real solution, and you believe in the Russian shipbuilding industry, which for 20 years has not issued anything and will not give out in the necessary quantities, because there are no prerequisites for improvement.
                    1. Barberry25
                      Barberry25 28 November 2021 14: 18
                      -2
                      yeah well .. will we buy corvettes with Chinese communication systems, navigation, weapons? Or will we send everything to the Chinese to the factory? you offer the excrement of a mammoth, not a way out ..
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 29 November 2021 09: 41
                        -3
                        I asked a specific question, where and how will the design, equipping and delivery of these frigates, which are equivalent to our corvettes in terms of performance characteristics, be carried out? Will there be an answer?
  8. UVB
    UVB 23 November 2021 07: 10
    +8
    Of course, there is nothing of value in these patches of land.
    Thanks to the Kuriles, the Sea of ​​Okhotsk is an internal sea of ​​Russia, with all the ensuing consequences. It's a shame not to know.
  9. kytx
    kytx 23 November 2021 07: 18
    +15
    "
    I have already said that the economic value of the islands today is near zero. This must be calmly admitted and said "

    The novel you are talking nonsense.
    You are completely unaware.
    But for the mass settlement of the Kuril Islands are not very suitable and it is not necessary. And the Japs will not populate them. For example, look at Hokkaido, how many people there are.
    1. Product8
      Product8 23 November 2021 08: 19
      -2
      Quote: kytx
      And the Japs will not populate them.

      Well, they built more there than the USSR and Russia in 70 years.
      We ran around there sometimes. The sailors said that in the Kuril Islands most of the lighthouses were of Japanese construction.

      1. kytx
        kytx 23 November 2021 08: 23
        +2
        The Japs built military facilities there, fishing bases mined minerals. That's all.
        1. Product8
          Product8 23 November 2021 10: 57
          +1
          Quote: kytx
          That's all.

          Lighthouse on Aniva ... beauty.
          The runway on Leonidovo is heated, but this is Sakhalin already ..
          Ours never recovered after the Japanese.
          A network of underground communications and shelters in the Kuril Islands. Many have not been found.
          On Simushir, they tried to be on duty (((Storm, wind.

          1. Vale2000
            Vale2000 24 November 2021 22: 23
            -1
            Quote: Product8
            Lighthouse on Aniva ... beauty.

            Beautiful but abandoned.

      2. Vale2000
        Vale2000 24 November 2021 22: 25
        -1
        Quote: Product8
        We ran around there sometimes.

        In the sense of running around?
        1. Product8
          Product8 24 November 2021 23: 05
          -2
          Quote: Vale2000
          In the sense of running around?

          Sometimes according to the task of combat service, sometimes they planned their own radius.
          Look. Retirement will no longer work.

          1. Vale2000
            Vale2000 25 November 2021 08: 42
            -2
            Quote: Product8
            Sometimes on the mission of combat service

            Your shape is strange.
  10. Silhouette
    Silhouette 23 November 2021 07: 44
    +4
    What kind of baby talk? The impression that some teenager got into the wrong topic. What is this wretched material for? Nothing to publish at all?
    1. Doccor18
      Doccor18 23 November 2021 08: 57
      -1
      Quote: Silhouette
      What is this wretched material for? Nothing to publish at all?

      Perhaps. Or maybe in order for 100500 comments to arrive about his wretchedness ...
  11. Lynx2000
    Lynx2000 23 November 2021 07: 49
    +11
    Of course, there is nothing of value in these patches of land. Yes, no matter what they say there, about fishing, minerals and other legends - the Kuril Islands have such backyards of the empire

    I have already said that the economic value of the islands today is near zero. This must be admitted calmly and said that tomorrow the North and South Kuril ridges will be able to become excellent outposts of defense.

    Roman, fish - this is the gold of the Far Eastern region, a renewable resource, more or less work is being established to control the catch of FBG. Moreover, sockeye salmon (except for chinook salmon, coho salmon, chum salmon and pink salmon) are very hard currency commodities; they pass for spawning on the territory of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk past the Kuril straits from the Pacific.
    Regarding minerals such as rare earth metals (accompanying the volcanic activity of the region) and hydrocarbons, also thermal energy sources do not even want to repeat myself. Already a lot of discussions and disputes were on the topic of the Kuriles ...
    During the period of "domination" of Japan, there were no special civil settlements on the islands of the Kuril ridge.
    In the 90s, the Russian Federation proposed to Japan to develop and implement programs for the joint development and development of these islands.
    1. kytx
      kytx 23 November 2021 08: 25
      +2
      In general, I agree with you. Only here there will be more sockeye salmon on the eastern coast of Kamchatka :)
      1. Lynx2000
        Lynx2000 23 November 2021 09: 03
        +3
        It is less, Ozernovskaya is better appreciated by the bourgeoisie. However, any territory of the state, regardless of location (center or outskirts), is important primarily not only for defense purposes, but also for economic use ...
        1. kytx
          kytx 23 November 2021 09: 39
          +1
          I have acquaintances with fishmongers. The most valuable sockeye salmon on the SEA market from the vicinity of Tymlat. Correct sockeye salmon and should not be too large.

          In general, all fish and red and white fish from the east (the Bering Sea and the Pacific) are always better. This is not my opinion, but the opinion of people who professionally do this.
          The exception is the crab.
  12. Borz
    Borz 23 November 2021 08: 00
    +3
    [/ quote] With the USA they had an honest "hack", and then a knife in the back because of cowardice. [/ quote]

    What "honest hack", what cowardice ?! Stalin out of cowardice defeated the Kwantung Army, in your opinion?
  13. Stirbjorn
    Stirbjorn 23 November 2021 08: 03
    +1
    Apart from US submarines, which from time to time hang out under the ice, we have no enemy in the North. Simply because potential ships do not have ships capable of operating in ice.
    I apologize, but in the Second World War it was perhaps the hottest maritime theater for our Navy, in terms of the struggle of the fleets. And the British went here and the Germans held the main forces. And no ice got in the way. There is not everything so sad with this phenomenon. The Pacific Fleet has problems with access to the world's oceans, much more if you look at the map. So that the Northern Fleet is in charge, this is what Comrade Stalin understood before the war.
  14. KCA
    KCA 23 November 2021 08: 08
    +2
    "The Kuril Islands have such backyards of the empire that it is difficult for a normal person to imagine. In reality, the economic value of the islands is zero, because there is nothing there. No tourist cluster, no production. And the number of people is getting smaller and smaller."
    The Kuril Islands have the world's largest ruthenium deposit, there are also other rare earth elements, and this despite the fact that thorough geological exploration was not carried out, they just stumbled upon
    1. kytx
      kytx 23 November 2021 08: 28
      +3
      Geological exploration was carried out there. I personally know who and how it was.
  15. Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 23 November 2021 08: 10
    0
    Quote: Lair
    The strategic importance of the Kurils is enormous, it is the Kurils that allow us to completely control the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, the Kuriles are a pistol at the head of Japan, one of the key points of the Far East.

    It's right
  16. Eug
    Eug 23 November 2021 08: 51
    0
    The fleet, of course, is needed - but given the population density on the Japanese Islands and the presence of nuclear power plants, you can literally "throw" the islands with aviation CDs with a non-nuclear warhead. It will definitely not be sweet. I suspect that it is the awareness of this threat that is holding back the Japs ...
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 23 November 2021 09: 13
      +2
      There is a response factor here.

      For example, the US classifies the conflict as borderline friction. That is, they do not climb into them. However, if at least one bomb / missile falls on Japan = the United States activates the military alliance clause and gets involved in the conflict.

      Here the factor of restraint in the return will play wink .
      1. slm976
        slm976 23 November 2021 12: 32
        +1
        Good afternoon.
        However, if at least one bomb / missile falls on Japan = the United States activates the military alliance clause and gets involved in the conflict.


        And what if our retaliatory strike, up to a nuclear one, will not be directed at Japan, but at the landing forces and the Japanese fleet, which ensures the landing on the Kuril Islands? As I understand it, in this case, "Defense of Japan's territory from external aggression" is no longer playing?
        And then the Americans will no longer be exposed to a nuclear conflict ...
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 23 November 2021 13: 26
          +2
          Nuclear weapons are very unlikely to be used. For this is an immediate transfer of the country to the DPRK with the arrest of all available funds + an outcast country.
          1. slm976
            slm976 23 November 2021 13: 56
            +1
            It seems to me that in the event of a war and the likely loss of territories, this will be the least thought of, especially since now, in order to impose sanctions, seize finances, etc., real reasons are not needed, reasons are easily invented, but based on invented reasons they already carry out sanctions decisions.
            If you keep in mind the possible sanctions from the side of "our Western partners", then you can safely surrender immediately and not think about any defense at all, especially since we have too many enemies, without the threat of a nuclear baton we will not have enough of them all - they will be torn apart, as soon as they feel the slack.

            Well, and if you behave smartly, then you can probably not bring it to a real strike, it is enough to drain the enemy's plans to use nuclear weapons in an attempt to annex the Kuril Islands, sometimes the threat is enough for the enemy to come to his senses, especially since the Japanese are very know well.
            1. donavi49
              donavi49 23 November 2021 14: 54
              +3
              You are not called Nikolai 1 by chance? He also thought about the same. The Russian army, if necessary, will take Paris again. The Austrian emperor owes his life to the Russian, for it is only thanks to the Russian army that he lives and rules. We will quickly beat the Turks and Victoria. We will carry out maneuvers to the British, they will not stick. And if they turn up, then we will smash it even in the Baltic, even in the Black Sea in a defensive campaign. Even if it does not go out to sea, the Russian army will drop the landing party into the sea.
              1. slm976
                slm976 23 November 2021 15: 12
                0
                You are not called Nikolai 1 by chance? He also thought about the same. The Russian army, if necessary, will take Paris again. The Austrian emperor owes his life to the Russian, for it is only thanks to the Russian army that he lives and rules.


                No, my name is Sergei and without any numbers.))) And I don't see where I wrote that, similar to what you attribute to Nikolai 1st ...
                Maybe I didn’t express my thoughts clearly enough, but I don’t know how you came to such associations?
                1. donavi49
                  donavi49 23 November 2021 18: 45
                  +1
                  Well, Nicholas 1 also thought that the demonstrations of strength and determination are enough. Let's kick off Turkey, and England / France will kick it and that's it. In Europe, no one dares to speak, and the same emperor of Austria is generally indebted to Nicholas. In general, easy victorious. It turned out differently.

                  Also you - why are you sure that the threat is enough? Why are you sure that the United States will occupy hostile neutrality, and will not act as a side, especially if something arrives in Japan.
                  1. slm976
                    slm976 23 November 2021 20: 46
                    0
                    Likewise you - why are you sure, then a threat is enough

                    Where did I say that I am sure of this?
                    I said: "sometimes a threat is enough for the enemy to change his mind ..", is this the same - I'm sure?

                    Why are you sure that the United States will take hostile neutrality and not side, especially if something arrives in Japan


                    Let's go in order. Where did I suggest hitting Japan? I discussed with you the possibility of our strike against the Japanese landing force to prevent its landing on our Kuril Islands. In my opinion, this is not the same thing.
                    Further, about the United States, I am not at all sure that they will not intervene, but I think that if there is no immediate threat to the territory of Japan and the American bases on it, then the Americans will not start the third world war, this is my opinion, not confidence.
                    My main thought was that if we cannot defend the territorial integrity of our country without the use of nuclear weapons, then we will have to use nuclear weapons, regardless of what we are sure of ...
                    All the security of our country is now based on the fact that we have nuclear weapons and, if necessary, we are ready to use them ... It is worth giving weakness, retreating once and we will have to retreat further until we stop where there is nowhere to retreat, and the choice will remain the same, only the situation will be much worse.
      2. Barberry25
        Barberry25 23 November 2021 12: 50
        -1
        laughing yeah, and if ours drown a Japanese destroyer .. will they also answer?
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 23 November 2021 13: 28
          +4
          How limited conflicts work in the world. You decide there whatever you want (well, within the framework of the rules - without nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction) - in the disputed zone / region. But beyond the framework of this conflict, no, no, otherwise there will be ata-that.

          Therefore, if they drown, or rather they are guaranteed to drown / shoot down something, there is no war without losses - then this is a sacrifice in the name of victory.

          Now, if the calibers arrive at the nuclear power plant or the bridges between the Japanese islands begin to be destroyed, then the USA / allies will get in there.
          1. Barberry25
            Barberry25 23 November 2021 13: 34
            -4
            laughing will not fit if ours before this exponentially melt half of the Japanese flotilla and show the destroyed civilian objects in Vladik
  17. Ros 56
    Ros 56 23 November 2021 09: 00
    +3
    Roman, I’m bastard with you, then you write sensible things, when you can vote FOR with both hands, then you are engaged in everything, like this article, then you frighten those who disagree with your opinion by excommunication from VO (this is a shame for the moderator). Some kind of continuous confusion and vacillation. hi
  18. TovSaaakhov
    TovSaaakhov 23 November 2021 09: 02
    -2
    We need to bring more rockets to the Kuril Islands. And let the Japanese wonder how many of them have YABC.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 23 November 2021 09: 58
      +6
      And the meaning? If YABCH - then not necessarily on the Kuril Islands. Imagine something else, the samurai are taking the base, which Iskanders with nuclear warheads.

      The problem of the fortified islands is extremely simple, over the past 400 years not a single fortress has survived without supplies. All the more so today. Let's say you drove the S-400 + Buki battery to the island. Air defense cannot support them from a neighboring island, because the range and relief. Su-27/30/35 operate at the limit of range. Whereas the Japanese, on the other hand, rise from the airbases and after 3-6 minutes they are already launching HARMs / missiles at targets. As a result, your isolated outpost breaks through, the radars are burning (and without them the S-400 launchers are useless), some of the complexes are caught on reloading. Here you can also add a massive mixed raid of all sorts of artisanal UAVs from Phantoms and T2 / F1 to defuse the air defense. Well, as the air defense will score, they will score the ground. Further on to the next island. The Americans won the war in the Pacific if that.
      1. TovSaaakhov
        TovSaaakhov 23 November 2021 11: 58
        -1
        Over the past 400 or 4000 years, there have been no fortresses in the world that could destroy not only the direct attackers, but also turn the entire country of the attackers into a desert. Nuclear weapons have some peculiarities, and the best defense is, as you know, attack.
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 23 November 2021 13: 24
          +3
          Well, as I wrote above, the Americans can play bullish. They say, you yourself figure it out for the islands, and if you use nuclear weapons or start to strike at Japan, we will intervene in accordance with the current agreement. At the same time, Japan will also declare that it will not strike at the Russian Federation.
          1. Alexander Petrov
            Alexander Petrov 23 November 2021 18: 23
            -1
            Those. are Americans ready to play roulette and take us weak? For the ambition and phantom pain of the Japs? Hokkaido will definitely be calibrated, I don't know about the rest of Japan. If there are no strikes on the mainland and Sakhalin, they can be lucky ...
            1. donavi49
              donavi49 23 November 2021 18: 42
              +2
              Those. Russians, French and British are ready to play roulette because of Serbia which is difficult to find on the map? That's about the same thought in the summer of the 14th.

              And then the Japanese. The same as in the 14th Serbs? The accumulated problems spill out. If you endure, then they will overthrow them from the post of hegemon, and the allies will think, today they threw Japan, and tomorrow us, why such an alliance? Well, etc.
              1. Alexander Petrov
                Alexander Petrov 23 November 2021 19: 00
                0
                And what prevented the Americans from joining in the 14th year? Or 15m in Syria? Why are the Japs so unique for them that they fit in and be exposed to a nuclear strike? The Allies have already examined everything in detail about allied relations in Afghanistan and Syria.
      2. Barberry25
        Barberry25 23 November 2021 12: 51
        0
        Well, the islands will be able to take it .. and then what?
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 23 November 2021 13: 22
          +4
          Then raise the flags and be proud of the victory. That is, the goals of their war have been achieved.
          1. Barberry25
            Barberry25 23 November 2021 13: 33
            -1
            and who told you that the war will end from the moment the islands are captured during the landing operation? in fact, the war will just begin ..
  19. Devil13
    Devil13 23 November 2021 11: 03
    -1
    Only here is the caveat, to build something bigger than a corvette at the Pacific Fleet has not been built for 30 years.
    There is Lazarev, who did not wait for the repair on the star, and who will be sawn, and our military industry is not able to produce something more than 22350 in normal quantities.

    Now to the article. The Pacific Fleet, as in the days of the RYaV, is cut off from the central industrial regions of the country. Throwing something intelligible there quickly is unrealistic.
    Northern Fleet along the Northern Sea Route, plus boats, yes, it can pass, and aviation will be able to drop something, but nothing more.

    Now, in fact: that the SF, that the ToF, you need at least 8 PO, or better 16 ships of the 22350 class or better, or build super-karrakurt (at least), or an analogue of a Visby-type corvette.
    It is realistic to do this, if you do not squander on any ... dubious quality shipbuilding, like "Bykov", and everything else, and especially - 20380 with an antenna barrier, whose performance characteristics have not been confirmed, but from the strike weapons old x-35ue from the "Harpoon" cold war.

    Now the question. Maybe our fleet and industry, collect money, take their hands and heads out of their ass, attach them to their shoulders, and try to issue 2-4 frigates per year on an envelope, with a ship building period of 2-3 years and transferring to the fleet?
    Really, but nobody needs it. And no money, pence ... But they gave out to the Deputies, Rottenberg, Deripaska and all Belarusians, yes
    1. Barberry25
      Barberry25 23 November 2021 14: 20
      -1
      here are the claims to Uranus are not clear .. especially considering that the latest version of Uranus hits 500 km.
  20. kig
    kig 23 November 2021 11: 52
    0
    So what can the Japanese do in this regard? Just organize the settlement of the islands within the framework of any program
    - the moment is missed. If they had organized a referendum on the islands like the Crimean one in the 90s, the population remaining on Shikotan would almost certainly have happily voted for.
  21. Sahalinets
    Sahalinets 23 November 2021 11: 58
    0
    Roma, you would not write nonsense. The economic value of the Kuril Islands is by no means zero. Have you ever heard of the concept of an exclusive economic zone? So, in the Kuril zone, seafood worth billions of dollars is annually caught. And it's a renewable resource!
  22. realist
    realist 23 November 2021 12: 18
    +1
    the Japanese cannot be physically allowed on the islands - only investments.
    We will not build many ships soon, but can we still place more ground forces there? Well, base missile units?
    and the aviation there, of course, should be so and so that it would be able to prevent the Japanese fleet from approaching the coast.
    1. Barberry25
      Barberry25 23 November 2021 13: 02
      0
      how many troops do not shove, the Japanese will still have more opportunities, it makes no sense for them to disperse forces, But the moment is different ... suppose they can seize the islands ... then what will they do?
  23. gregor6549
    gregor6549 23 November 2021 12: 23
    0
    I will not comment on the writer's statements about the benefits of this or that fleet of the Russian Navy, but here are his statements that international treaties can be ignored when it becomes unprofitable for one of the signatories to the treaty and that the one who managed to grab something alien as a result of hostilities is always right cause great doubts. I will not argue that the territories that were Japanese before 1945 and that became Soviet after the end of the war with Japan in the same year should be returned to Japan, and the same Kaliningrad, which was nee Koenigsberg, should be given to Germany. All these lands were conquered as a result of bloody battles and the UN at one time made a decision on the inadmissibility of revising the results of the Second World War. But at the same time, one should not forget that due to the fact that Japan did not violate the Non-Aggression Pact signed by it and the USSR before the start of the Great Patriotic War, the Army was able to redeploy the Far Eastern divisions near Moscow on critical days for the capital and thereby save it from capture or blockade by the Germans. By the way, in 1939 Japan was not going to commit aggression against the USSR, but only wanted to crush Mongolia under itself. And then the main vector of Japan's aggression was aimed at gaining dominance in the Pacific region. The Far East, with its rich reserves, but not then exploited minerals, Japan did not need at all, and she did not need to risk getting involved in a war with the USSR from which she learned a subject lesson on Khalkhin Gol. It should be noted that Hitler and his comrades made great efforts to involve Japan in the war with the USSR, but Japan did not surrender and preferred to abide by the Non-Aggression Pact. For which the USSR should be at least grateful to her.
    Well, and a few more words about the right of the strong to prey, which Skomorokhov mentioned. It turns out that Israel, which occupied a number of territories belonging to Arab countries, before the wars of 1967 and 1973, is also quite within its own right. All wars with Israel were provoked by the Arab countries and their great friend the USSR, and having won those aoins, Israel received the right to the territories conquered in those wars. Moreover, the right paid for by a very significant blood for tiny Israel. Or do other criteria work in terms of rights?
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 23 November 2021 15: 48
      +1
      Quote: gregor6549
      But at the same time, one should not forget that due to the fact that Japan did not violate the Non-Aggression Pact signed by it and the USSR before the beginning of the Second World War, the Kyrgyz Army was able to redeploy the Far Eastern divisions near Moscow on critical days for the capital and thereby save it from capture or blockade by the Germans.

      Any agreement that is not backed up by force is not worth paper. Specifically, the Non-Aggression Pact with Japan cost the Red Army 600-900 thousand servicemen, 2-2,5 thousand tanks and the same number of aircraft that the USSR was forced from 1941 to 1945 to pickle in the ZabVO and the Far Eastern Fleet.
      The funny thing is that in 1941 the main supporter of the attack on the USSR was the head of the department that draws up and monitors the observance of all these international treaties. And the main opponents are the leadership of the IJA and IJN, who substantiated their position not with some kind of treaties, but with the might of the USSR and the Red Army.
      ... Foreign Minister Matsuoka, at the first news of Germany's attack on the Soviet Union, rushed to the emperor with a demand to immediately move troops to Siberia. The reaction of the monarch, with whom the influential Marquis of Kido had already talked, was cool.
      (...)
      However, already on the third day, Matsuoka was rebuffed by the command of the fleet, which believed that in the event of an attack on the USSR, a conflict with the United States was possible, and the Japanese fleet was not able to control communications in the south and north at the same time. Matsuoka went to the Chief of the General Staff of the Army, Sugiyama. “We are expecting how events will develop,” the general replied to him. At that moment, the General Staff of Japan had already decided to enter the war against the USSR if Moscow fell before the end of August.
      On June 30, a telegram came from Hitler demanding to immediately fulfill his allied obligations and strike at the USSR from the east. Having received a telegram from Ambassador Ott, Matsuoka read it out at a meeting of the Council of Ministers. But the telegram did not convince his colleagues, who did not want to rush. Minister of War Tojo and the generals behind him were not inclined to underestimate the power of the Soviet Union and the fighting qualities of its divisions. Until the Germans reached the Urals, they believed, there would be enough time to capture Siberia and the Soviet Far East. There was another important consideration that influenced the position of the leadership of the Japanese army: in the south, in Indonesia, there were large reserves of oil, without which it was impossible to wage a war. Only by putting Indonesia under control will it be possible to head north.

      The last word remained with Sugiyama, behind whom were Konoe and Tojo. “I am convinced,” he said, “that America will not stand up for Indochina. It is too early to discount the Soviet Union. We have to wait 50 or 60 days. And only if we are convinced that Germany is sure to win will it be our turn. "
      © Mozheiko
      Quote: gregor6549
      By the way, in 1939 Japan was not going to commit aggression against the USSR, but only wanted to crush Mongolia under itself.

      It is like attacking Egypt in 1940, without intending to commit aggression against Great Britain. smile
      The Mongolian leadership was appointed and filmed in Moscow. De facto it was a Soviet republic, on the territory of which, moreover, limited contingent.
  24. zloybond
    zloybond 23 November 2021 13: 13
    +2
    The Kuriles are primarily the gateway to the Sea of ​​Okhotsk. The Japanese may not be for themselves and the territories are trying to return them. This is the gate and the enemy needs it. And the fact that the Americans will enter this gate through Japan, embracing the Japanese, is already a fact. And the straits will control and also take bribes for the passage from us. So a vegetable garden can be fenced verbal as much as necessary about worthlessness. It's actually simpler.
  25. Terry18
    Terry18 23 November 2021 13: 29
    +1
    The author is a strategist, he decided everything correctly! There is no need for Russia to have fleets in the west and north. Send the entire fleet to the Pacific Ocean, and in the west, let the NATO fleet remain with strategic missiles on submarines in the Norwegian and Barents Seas. Let the European part of Russia be shelled - it's not a pity.
  26. Alexander Petrov
    Alexander Petrov 23 November 2021 14: 07
    -2
    I understand that the author stupidly takes and compares the boats. Which have been targets for aviation (and now also anti-ship missiles) for 80 years

    Regarding the economic value of the Kuriles - what are you doing? There is a huge amount of fish stocks and + you can organize the extraction of rare earths, in fact, they have already begun - the extraction of rhenium. In addition, without the Kuriles, the Sea of ​​Okhotsk ceases to be a de facto internal Russian one.
    Moreover, there is no creeping economic and cultural expansion of the Japanese in the Kuril Islands (they themselves abandoned it) and the local population has to some extent already calmed down about "Could eat sushi and drink sake"))))

    All this has already been sorted out on Courage with Mr. Timokhin. Yes, the Japanese navy is certainly strong. But no one is going to arrange another Tsushima.

    It is banal to capture 2 large islands, the Japanese will not be able to, there is not enough CCS. I on Courage, in a dispute with Timokhin, laid out the calculation for the landing of the 1st (!) Japanese landing battalion from helicopters with supplies for several days. With light weapons and mortars. The Japanese will not be able to bring anything more serious on the first day. Their maximum is the most favorable combination of circumstances (the reconnaissance slept,, WEATHER !!! there is a favorable landing, the New Year was celebrated, the special officers of the stsuki shoot in the back)))) - this is a combined landing at the airport and somewhere on the beach in the region of the lake. Sandy in Kunashir. Yes, Shikotan will be taken. Or directly to Yuzhno-Kurilsk with the massacre of the peaceful (this is no stranger to)
    Even taking into account the infliction of fire damage on the PPD and the positions of the subunits of the 18th Pulads (mainly by aviation, since the CD and MLRS, if they reach out), the remaining ones are quite capable of blocking the actions of the landing, and then time works for us, tk. The RF Armed Forces are assembling a group of Aerospace Forces, the Navy and MFA and begin to work on everything that is of some kind of military value in Hokkaido, and these are places of concentration of troops, ports, piers, air bases, BP and fuel and lubricants depots, ships at sea, airborne ferry facilities.
    After that, the surviving Japanese paratroopers will have nothing to eat and they will be caught on a can of stew.

    The NK of the Japanese Navy are drowning, this is only a matter of the SIS attire, mainly aviation and the number of anti-ship missiles salvoes. We can overwhelm them with so many RCCs that we just oversaturate AEGIS. Japanese submarines pose a great danger. But to combat them, it is more expedient to develop submarine forces at the Pacific Fleet. It is desirable to have a submarine brigade in Kamchatka (the same Ladas with VNEU).
    1. Glagol1
      Glagol1 23 November 2021 14: 20
      -1
      It's even redundant. Just an official warning about the use of tactical nuclear weapons when their fleet crosses a certain line. Everything.
    2. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa 23 November 2021 14: 26
      +2
      It is banal to capture 2 large islands, the Japanese will not be able to, there is not enough CCS. I on Courage, in a dispute with Timokhin, laid out the calculation for the landing of the 1st (!) Japanese landing battalion from helicopters with supplies for several days. With light weapons and mortars. The Japanese will not be able to bring anything more serious on the first day.


      The poor Japanese have no landing ships, no 1st Airborne Brigade, no VTA, yeah.

      These were not calculations, it was pure memory corruption on the server.

      The RF Armed Forces are assembling a group of Aerospace Forces, the Navy and MFA and begin to work on everything that is of some kind of military value in Hokkaido, and these are places of concentration of troops, ports, piers, air bases, BP and fuel and lubricants depots, ships at sea, airborne ferry facilities.


      And how long does it take to collect such a group? And what are we going to do with the remnants of the 18th pool that are being achieved? Shall we feed the Japanese?

      Kindergarten, pants on the straps.

      The NKs of the Japanese Navy are drowning, it is only a matter of the SIS attire. We can overwhelm them with so many RCCs that we just oversaturate AEGIS.


      And from what media?

      But to combat them, it is more expedient to develop submarine forces at the Pacific Fleet. It is desirable to have a submarine brigade in Kamchatka.


      Japanese anti-submarine aviation is conventionally not shown, yeah.
      1. Alexander Petrov
        Alexander Petrov 23 November 2021 15: 03
        +2
        O!!! Alexander, hello.

        So if you didn’t like my calculations, I still didn’t see your number of helicopters needed for the transfer of this landing brigade)))) Let me remind you that you need ~ 50 Iroquois and 2 dozen Chinooks to transport a battalion)))

        At the same time, I will remind you about the weather in the local area. Those. there is a high probability that 2-3 of his flight of turntables may not happen.

        The Japanese have landing ships, exactly 3 pieces. And some LCAC. I don’t remember 3 TDKs are they still alive? However, they can also land from fishing schooners. But with the delivery of heavy equipment questions.

        And a single airborne brigade with light weapons, even with the support from the sea by a conditional battalion of the MP from a few tanks and wheeled armored combat vehicles with cannon armament, will not take a single island (except for Shikotan). Each one has a reinforced PTGr with art, tanks and air defense. And good supplies. Unlike the Japanese, who have to carry everything with them.

        I'm not even saying that it is difficult to covertly concentrate such a number of landing forces. But let it be "intelligence slept"

        And from what media?

        Hello again. Su-34 and Su-35 are carriers of the Kh-35U and Kh-31AD, this is straight away, what is nearby at hand. We don’t forget about Varyag with Basalts and Shaposhnikov, Varshavyanka with Calibers. Oh yes, they will be drowned right away, right at the berths.
        And further on increasing.
        Yes, I am aware that the X-32 "does not exist"))) And the "Dagger" on NK "does not work"))).
        Well, the DBK are the same. On the islands, Kamchatka and Sakhalin.

        Japanese anti-submarine aviation is conventionally not shown, yeah.

        Where? in the coverage area of ​​the MiG-31BM with the R-37M airborne missile system? I'm not even talking about the naval Yelizovskys now. Although they also began to be converted into BM. And it is not necessary to say that they do not exist and that these are mock-ups. Photos have seen and there is nothing to argue.

        You see, Alexander, aviation is such a thing that very quickly turns out to be in another theater of operations)))
      2. Alexander Petrov
        Alexander Petrov 23 November 2021 16: 01
        0
        1st Airborne Brigade

        The only airborne brigade)))
      3. Alexander Petrov
        Alexander Petrov 24 November 2021 10: 26
        0
        And what are we going to do with the remnants of the 18th pool that are being achieved? Let's feed the Japanese
        ?

        This is the key point. Who said there would be leftovers? Even with a 30% loss, this is a serious gr. Sitting on the defensive in key areas. And the Japanese need it FAST! (Within a day) to create on the islands a group capable of crushing these forces of ours. Which is extremely difficult for them to accomplish (but I am not saying that it is impossible). Conclusion - do not slurp cabbage soup with bast shoes. If they hold out for a week or two, the Japanese have nothing to catch. In addition, they need to take 2 islands at the same time. Otherwise, the meaning of the war is lost.
  27. Glagol1
    Glagol1 23 November 2021 14: 17
    +2
    This topic has already been raised on VO, the author decided to chew it up. There is nothing special to comment on, but I will only note that the economic value of the islands is enormous. Maybe the author is not in the know, but it is thanks to these islands that the Sea of ​​Okhotsk is our internal, and this is real wealth.
  28. Glagol1
    Glagol1 23 November 2021 14: 22
    +1
    Pacific Fleet is not a stick. It would be necessary to express myself more correctly.
  29. Bekasov Artem Andreevich
    Bekasov Artem Andreevich 23 November 2021 14: 58
    +1
    Repeatedly expressed in discussions of articles on the Far East the need to build a second missile defense positioning area in Primorye (an analogue of the missile defense missile defense system of the Moscow region). In the light of the latest news on the arms race of the Southeast Asian countries, including South Korea and Japan, I also consider it absolutely necessary, before the appearance of anti-missile defense systems, to do the following:
    1) Saturate Primorye, Sakhalin Island and Kuriles with air defense, electronic warfare and electronic warfare systems, attack cruise missiles
    2) Accelerate the construction of diesel-electric submarines 636.3 for the Pacific Fleet and increase the series to 12 units, work out a scheme for dispersing new attack diesel-electric submarines and include two new temporary deployment points in it - Vanino-Sov. Gavan and Simushir Island (Broughton Bay)
    3) Accelerate work on the creation of a large military airfield on Sakhalin Island with two runways of 3 km and the ability to receive up to 120-150 aircraft. aircraft at a time, including the attack Tu-22M3M, Su-34, Su-30 and Su-35, the RER, EW and AWACS aircraft, as well as the TZ and the amphibious assault vehicle. Provide for the deployment of airborne personnel of the Airborne Forces division, technical personnel and flight personnel for a period of up to 6-12 months. on a rotational basis. With a frequency of 1 time in 2-4 years, arrange a demonstrative seizure of the islands of the Kuril ridge by the forces of the Airborne Forces, the Navy and the Marine Corps, practicing the capture of Fr. Hokkaido and blocking the Tsugaru and Tsushima straits together with the allies (China, India, Vietnam), the capture or destruction of naval base in Mitsu (Hokkaido island).
    4) Consider the project for the construction of a full-fledged naval base in Fokino, Danube and Putyatin Island, capable of receiving ships of rank 1 and 2 in the number of double-triple composition of the Pacific Fleet in NK and submarines.
    5) Conduct war games to repel a joint Japanese-American attack on Sakhalin, Kamchatka and Primorye with the development of effective measures to repel aggression, the complete destruction of the Japanese fleet and military infrastructure by massive non-nuclear missile strikes.
    5) Accelerate the saturation of the Pacific Fleet with rank 3-4 surface ships, including RTOs equipped with Kalibr strike missiles, etc.
    6) Accelerate work to complete the modernization of naval bases in Viluchinsk and Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky with the saturation of the staff with new submarines and NKs.
    7) Extend the series of universal DKVD project 23900, under construction in Kerch, to 4-6 units, 2-3 of which will be sent to the Far East.
    8) At Shipyard Zvezda, after launching the PD-50 floating dock, start the construction of a series of 6-9 ships of the 1st rank (Project 22350 frigates or destroyers of a new project).
    9) Together with China, work out interaction on blocking the Tsushima Strait and the East China Sea for Japanese and American forces, destroying the US military infrastructure in Japan and South Korea and delivering strikes on Guam!
    "And then the clouds will surely suddenly dance" and the Japanese militarists will have no time for the Northern Territories. The problem will fade into the background for many years.
    1. Alexander Petrov
      Alexander Petrov 23 November 2021 15: 34
      0
      Excessive in my opinion.

      Extra frets yes. Do I need to base them somewhere other than Vladik and Kamchatka? Not sure.
      It is better to ensure the normal OVR of our bases. Actually by themselves diesel-electric submarines (NAPL) is an excellent excellent PLO.

      Corvettes 22380 are being built at the ASZ. Hopefully soon they will be based in Kamchatka.

      22350 YES! but here the GEM factor keeps.

      12700 YES! GEM!

      22800 YES! GEM!

      Small corvette PLO based on 22800 YES! GEM?

      But the most important thing is aviation. Su-30SM regiment at Pacific Fleet! Min-m.
      DRLOW - YES! But here everything is very slow, there is only one hope to partially close this niche with "Kronstadt" with its Helios.
      Refuellers! YES!
      GZKR "Larva" on OTA carriers
      An airfield on Sakhalin? Yes! But I see no reason to base 120-150 aircraft there (and expose them to attack). Tu-22M3M, it will fly where it is necessary. He has refueling again.

      Airborne forces on a rotational basis? What for? 2 brigades of the MP, the Sakhalin brigade and the 18th pool. If all this is kept according to normal states, with modern weapons and reinforced materiel there is enough infantry for coastal defense.
  30. faterdom
    faterdom 23 November 2021 15: 07
    0
    And since we are not talking about the destruction of the whole world, then in a local conflict, the combined fleets of Germany, Denmark and Norway will not leave the Baltic Fleet any chance.

    I cannot imagine a local conflict with any of these countries. Well, if only we again voluntarily do not leopold and give away everything we have acquired.
    But this has little to do with the fleet, you can squander everything even with the strongest fleet in caraman.
    For example, the expansion of the exit from the Baltic at the expense of Denmark is not the destruction of the whole world, is it?
    This will simply debunk the fiction about Article 5 of the NATO Charter: when it comes to destroying the United States, they will not really fight for their vassals. Well, really. Even for cousins ​​(Great Britain)
    Stoptyberg can go to Valhalla in any way - we will not interfere, if he hesitates - we will help.
    You can imagine how you go out to fight with a bare bottom with an elephant, and agree: "Let's not die!" Can an elephant? Does he need it?
  31. Usher
    Usher 23 November 2021 16: 26
    -1
    But the Japanese have their own opinion. For the most part, they believe that the denunciation of the treaty and the attack of the Soviet Union on Japan is about the same thing as Japan's attack on the United States without a declaration of war.
    Keep your opinion to yourself. Then, judging by it, they treacherously attacked the Varyag without declaring war. And they brazenly captured Sakhalin and the Kuriles. We just got ours back.
    Thanks to the Kuriles, the Sea of ​​Okhotsk is ours.
  32. Scharnhorst
    Scharnhorst 23 November 2021 16: 58
    +1
    -The most serious issue of the security of the country's Far East in the article is reduced to a banal requirement of an uninitiated man in the street
    The Pacific Fleet needs surface ships. New and in sufficient quantities.
    "No, we don't need such an analysis!"
    1. For economic and financial reasons, the Russian Federation cannot build a Pacific Fleet similar to the Chinese, or American, or Japanese. Let's take this statement as an axiom.
    2. The comments mention the "wunderwaffe" and express regrets about the loss of the heavy nuclear missile cruisers. In our time, the "wunderwaffe" for the Pacific Fleet is an SSBN. One such boat, in terms of predicted damage to the enemy, will surpass the entire Japanese fleet with its naval aviation. This is also an axiom!
    3. But the theorem of savings, correct use and political will for the use of SSBNs in possible scenarios of conflicts in the Far East raises serious doubts in the evidence base.
    The problem of stability, supply and development of the SSBN base can only be solved with its transfer into the interior of the country (Eirineyskaya Bay of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk). In parallel, the Kuril and Sakhalin region should be integrated as closely as possible into the country's common body (railway and road bridge to Sakhalin). An air base on the island of Matua with the ability to receive strategic bombers and long-range patrol aircraft on a rotational basis should be equipped as an outpost. And only to ensure the fulfillment of these tasks will a surface fleet of ships be needed as an auxiliary tool.
    1. Alexander Petrov
      Alexander Petrov 23 November 2021 17: 34
      0
      The problem of stability, supply and development of the SSBN base can only be solved with its transfer into the interior of the country (Eirineyskaya Bay of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk).

      Scythian?!? Not?

      Bombers? On Matua?) ??

      On the whole, I agree with the idea. Connecting the mainland with Sakhalin = the next huge infrastructure project.
  33. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 23 November 2021 17: 13
    +3
    From the point of view of a beautifully-ugly act with the Japanese in 1945 - probably ugly. The Japanese had the opportunity to spoil a lot of blood for us at an important moment of the Second World War, they did not spoil it. Well, we piled on the Japanese to a heap, and even squeezed the territory. And everything would be quite unambiguous here, if not for history. And history says that for Japan to pile on someone suddenly, if there was such an opportunity, is a normal practice. As they have in the Bushido code - a samurai must always be ready for an attack on the sly. That for yourself, that for yourself. And our yellow-faced partners did not disdain this line either in relation to our neighbors, or in relation to us during the intervention. So the question is whether they deserve to be almond-shaped with them and play with white gloves - no, they don't. For "squad 731", for Nanjing, for the competition on who has time to cut more heads off for a while - and for all the other delights of the anime country. Japan behaved like an out-of-bounds - and shook off like a out-of-bounds.

    From the point of view of security and the proximity of borders to the metropolis, Japan can also be understood in principle. At one time, we also did not really like how close the Finnish border was to Leningrad, with all that it implies. Despite the fact that Finland is Finland, and here Japan and the Russian Federation, these are two big differences. Every large, rich state is interested in a fat belt and is extremely uncomfortable with the absence of such at the junction between other large and rich countries. Especially if these points are not turned into deeply echeloned defensive bridgeheads - and in fact are stupidly underutilized and sparsely populated territories. It hurt the Japanese and will hurt the eye - because there is a full bouquet of prerequisites for this.

    In fact, now the Pacific Fleet is our most important and responsible fleet - because of the peculiarities of our relations with Japan and its strengthening, and because of the impending bad events in the Asia-Pacific region. In other regions, we can rely more effectively on missile weapons and / or aviation, but not there. Accordingly, we must have a certain quantitative and qualitative line that meets the task of preventing the Japanese fleet from domination over us tactically in this region. And domination over the aggregate Japanese forces in the region - our aggregate forces. Ideally, it should be a confident dominance, because history teaches us how sophisticated combinations the Japanese can dump on the board in case their formation shows them the possibility of an effective blitzkrieg. In this case, we should also have a completely intelligible plan, even in general terms, daring the hunt of our yellow-faced partners from aggression.
    1. Alexander Petrov
      Alexander Petrov 23 November 2021 17: 41
      +1
      From the point of view of a beautifully-ugly act with the Japanese in 1945 - probably ugly. The Japanese had the opportunity to spoil a lot of blood for us at an important moment of the Second World War, they did not spoil it. Well, we piled on the Japanese to a heap, and even squeezed the territory.


      It should be noted that they did not climb only because at one time they were piled at Khasan and Khalkhin-gol. After that, their military decided to expand expansion to the south, where it naturally climbed into the zone of interests of the Americans and they did not tolerate this and actually forced the Japs to get involved in the war.
  34. Bekasov Artem Andreevich
    Bekasov Artem Andreevich 23 November 2021 17: 34
    0
    Quote: Scharnhorst
    An air base on the island of Matua with the ability to receive strategic bombers and long-range patrol aircraft on a rotational basis should be equipped as an outpost.

    On Matua, a 2,5-3 km airfield cannot be created, from the word at all! Nothing more will fit 1,7-2 km Nearby, in Kamchatka, 700 km away, there is an excellent air base in Yelizovo. And how will you protect it and the strategists on it from the side of the ocean?
    1. Alexander Petrov
      Alexander Petrov 23 November 2021 17: 45
      0
      There were shots from the press service of the Ministry of Defense, as they planted An-26 on Matua. Straight on thin ...
      There it looks quite a heliport for PLO turntables.
      1. Bekasov Artem Andreevich
        Bekasov Artem Andreevich 23 November 2021 18: 02
        0
        Mi-14 PLO, and it can be quite inexpensive. And the strategists are from another opera.
  35. YES UZH
    YES UZH 23 November 2021 19: 30
    -2
    On a very black day, there is "Poseidon"
  36. AAK
    AAK 23 November 2021 21: 00
    0
    Colleagues, you are focusing on particulars, but the situation with the Pacific Fleet should be considered as a whole.
    Japan not only has a strong fleet, it has an updated, balanced (with a developed strike, anti-aircraft and anti-submarine components of the surface fleet, as well as a strong submarine fleet and basic anti-submarine aviation), but also a well-equipped fleet (shipbuilding and other machine-building capacities, electronics, weapons , rear services and personnel (with a developed merchant and fishing fleet, as well as a serious coast guard service, there are hundreds of thousands of reserve seamen in basic specialties).
    Like Britain in Europe, Japan is an island, compact, densely populated and industrialized state. Plus a large number of naturally determined natural ice-free harbors on both coasts.
    And now the comparison is not in favor of Russia and the Pacific Fleet.
    1. The general state of the economy and finances of Japan and Russia (especially the budget of its Far Eastern part).
    2. The number of shipbuilding enterprises in Japan and in the Russian Far East, as well as their level: general technical, personnel, total tonnage and the range of built ships and ships;
    3. Production of components for the fleet (sheet, profile and tubular products for hulls, turbines and diesel engines, electric generators and batteries, electronics, chemical products, etc.), as well as, especially, the logistics of their delivery from manufacturers to shipyards.
    And what do we see in the end?
    In Japan, there are dozens of ice-free harbors (naval base and basing points), i.e. there are all possibilities for basing and dispersal (in the threatened period before the start of possible hostilities). There is a railway entrance to almost all ports. Also in Japan there is a dense airfield network in a compact area.
    Far East - 1 basing area (Vladivostok-Nakhodka), partially freezing (non-freezing Posyet does not have the proper infrastructure), as well as the harbor of Petropavlovsk Kamchatsky, non-freezing, but geographically remote and does not have a railway connection with the mainland (as well as absolutely most of the Far East) ... Vanino - freezes in winter, the Soviet Harbor too, and the latter is practically not used now for the needs of the fleet. Sakhalin and the Kuriles do not have any significant infrastructure for basing the forces of the fleet either. That is, two bases against at least two dozen from the enemy.
    Military shipbuilding is ridiculous to compare. Komsomolsk-on-Amur - in the paddock, and they built nuclear submarines there before, now they are trying to corvettes, but little and slowly and it is necessary to transport all the components and metal for several thousand kilometers. Vladivostok is only about the repair and cutting of ships, the new shipyard is exclusively under gas carriers. That is, there are no serious shipbuilding capacities, with personnel, too, seams. Petropavlovsk does not have capacities for shipbuilding and even high-quality ship repair.
    We are not discussing turbines, diesel engines, electronics for the fleet, everything is clear to everyone.
    And now - what about the war with Japan over the Kuril Islands (this is under the hypothetical condition that the showdown is only between us and Japan).
    Surface fleet - there are some opportunities, but the Pacific Fleet will not withstand a preemptive strike. Delivery of supplies to the fleet is possible only for Vladivostok. Kamchatka, the Kuriles and Sakhalin are in a naval blockade, there will be no supply by sea, by air - it's like to besieged Sevastopol in the Great Patriotic War, for 10 dead and wounded - 2 reinforcements, about resources - even worse.
    Submarine fleet - we can wash Japan into the ocean with the first preemptive salvo, but then we remain completely defenseless against the United States ...
    Basic anti-submarine aircraft - no options in favor of Japan.
    And now colleagues, answer objectively and impartially to the question - when will we have the population and production capacity in the Far East at least one third of that of Japan?
    1. Alexander Petrov
      Alexander Petrov 24 November 2021 00: 09
      -1
      Do the Japanese have long-range aviation?))) And what does the population and production facilities have to do with it. We give them hundreds of CR in the first salvo. Even taking into account good air defense, a lot will come. Infrared strikes.
    2. Product8
      Product8 24 November 2021 01: 37
      0
      Quote: AAK
      as well as the harbor of Petropavlovsk Kamchatsky, non-freezing

      ))) Freezes.
      Forgot the most important thing about the military alliance between Japan and the United States.
      In 1982, US carrier-based aircraft operated in the southern Kuriles.
      http://samlib.ru/s/semenow_aleksandr_sergeewich333
      /vseldot.shtml

      I corrected Karev a little.
      The web has weather data for this period. The aircraft flew normally from the deck, but not near the island? And why 'obsolete' ?. Normally MiG-21s in Vietnam were shot down by Phantoms. Or is the Su-15 only good enough to shoot down a passenger Boeing next year? Yes, because they knew the territory of the DISPUTE islands and it was more expensive for Moscow to fight for them, so there was no command to intercept the carrier-based aircraft.
      By the way, Nothing prevented the lost passenger Douglas from being planted on Iturup in 1968. The same 'outdated' Mig-17s (Karev should know, there was no Mig-19, there were Mig-17s, and since the 70s Mig-21s. And no one had to be shot down. Although this board was used to transport American soldiers to Vietnam ...
  37. zwlad
    zwlad 23 November 2021 21: 20
    -1
    Interesting article.
  38. Fisherman
    Fisherman 23 November 2021 21: 27
    -1
    The Navy cannot be considered in isolation from all the Armed Forces. The missiles are on duty so that the enemy's navy cannot leave, and even more so - return to bases in case of war. A fleet without bases is now a disposable firecracker. The war will not be just destroyers and aircraft carriers. If they start, we have the right to dash around the islands, to spread the ports and airbases to the shaitan and -... ... they are familiar. Therefore, a reasonable sufficiency for us is to strengthen air defense / missile defense and missile potential. We cannot invest in "toys" now.
  39. Fisherman
    Fisherman 23 November 2021 21: 30
    -2
    Quote: AAK
    ...
    And now colleagues, answer objectively and impartially to the question - when will we have the population and production capacity in the Far East at least one third of that of Japan?

    What for? For us, these are the backyards of our vast territory. For Japan, it is the only place of residence (after they were warmed up and thrown from the mainland). So let them sit in .... this place ... and do not shine .... develop further industry from imported raw materials ... if anything, they will catch macaques for soup.
  40. ramzay21
    ramzay21 23 November 2021 22: 42
    +1
    The Kuril Islands, which Japan claims, are not needed only by our thieves and brainless authorities.
    If you take a smart look at this area, which contains 80% of all fish resources in the region, then the income from catching, processing and selling this fish can amount to billions of dollars a year. If you correctly plan and build a modern infrastructure, then people will go to this region and it will flourish. This requires money and competent actions, but our government prefers to invest money in itself, in a show or distribute it to other countries, and even with brains everything is bad there.
  41. Bogatyrev
    Bogatyrev 24 November 2021 00: 42
    0
    And in 1904, when the Japanese attacked Port Arthur at night, they declared war?
    1. Alexander Petrov
      Alexander Petrov 24 November 2021 01: 17
      +1
      The Japanese need to carry out a lightning landing operation, and not just attack and sink a few steamers. Preparing for it and providing it is a very difficult undertaking. Cash SIS (airborne brigades and brigades), DK and airborne assault vehicles are clearly not enough for this against 1 PTGr on any of the large islands.
      1. Bogatyrev
        Bogatyrev 24 November 2021 01: 19
        0
        This is understandable.
        But I'm talking about their insult that the USSR allegedly dishonestly denounced the treaty in 1945.
        And they themselves acted honestly in 1904?
  42. musorg
    musorg 24 November 2021 07: 08
    0
    The year is almost over and there is no way out of repairs for either ships or submarines. A lot of words and not deeds at all, and this is constant. The Navy has a weak command and needs to be changed. And Shoigu thinks that the Army is not strong with single missiles. So Khrushchev thought when he cut airplanes and closed flight schools.
  43. Shaman
    Shaman 24 November 2021 14: 56
    0
    Well, nobody canceled nuclear weapons. Something in the dashing 90s when, at the mention of the Russian army, I wanted to close my eyes in horror and put it on like a nightmare, no one tried to openly squeeze our territory away. Therefore, proud samurai will sit straight, assenting to their master from Washington.
  44. Brancodd
    Brancodd 24 November 2021 15: 24
    0
    40 destroyers with anti-ship missiles

    Not all of Japan's 40 destroyers are armed with strike missiles.
    Some of them are armed only with anti-aircraft and anti-submarine weapons.
    But that's not the point. The landing operation itself or blocking our fleet is impossible without full control of the airspace. It won't be easy to do. Sufficient air defense forces are deployed in Primorye, Sakhalin and the Kuriles. S-400. The 1724th anti-aircraft missile regiment was transferred to the Kuriles from Birobidzhan, on its basis a new air defense brigade was formed. It is equipped with S-300V4 systems. On the Kuriles and Sakhalin, divisions of the anti-ship complexes Bal and Bastion are also deployed.
    The "Sky-M" and "Podlet" radars are located on Sakhalin. The aviation of the Far Eastern Military District should not be underestimated either. Even before the deployment of additional forces from other districts, it can seriously resist the Japanese Air Force. Approximately 150 MIG-31, SU-35BSU-30. An access restriction zone has been practically created.
    The Japanese intend to break through this dome with all their might, i.e. forces of 300 fighters?
    But the main thing is that Japan is a unique target; even tactical nuclear weapons will not be required to cool their heads. For some reason, it is believed that in the event of an armed confrontation, military infrastructure facilities will be the main targets. This is not true. Japan has unique cruise missile targets - 7 large terminals of liquefied natural gas. And 3 large gas storage facilities. Protecting them is extremely difficult. Almost impossible. Well, we are waiting for the first two Ash trees to appear at the Pacific Fleet.

    https://iz.ru/1135187/anton-lavrov-aleksei-ramm/ostrov-navedeniia-oboronu-sakhalina-obespechat-noveishie-s-400
    1. Barberry25
      Barberry25 24 November 2021 23: 34
      -2
      Well, if they do drown the Pacific Fleet, then diesel-electric submarines and aviation ... the fleet with their 150 km of missiles will be drowned on the way ..
  45. Brancodd
    Brancodd 24 November 2021 15: 56
    0
    Quote: Fisherman
    Therefore, a reasonable sufficiency for us is to strengthen air defense / missile defense and missile potential. We cannot invest in "toys" now.

    Well, we do it
    https://iz.ru/1135187/anton-lavrov-aleksei-ramm/ostrov-navedeniia-oboronu-sakhalina-obespechat-noveishie-s-400
  46. Canis aureus
    Canis aureus 24 November 2021 16: 22
    -2
    To prevent the Crimean scenario in the Kuril Islands, it is enough to station a battalion of the Russian Guard there. In which case it will "ensure the safety" of the narrow-eyed. Consider there are ready-made hostages. And at whom will the Japanese ships shoot missiles then? On your own?
  47. Victor Masyuk
    Victor Masyuk 24 November 2021 16: 51
    +1
    Dear author. Before you say that "there is nothing of value in these plots of land," study the issue of rare earth metals and their implications for the modern high-tech economy. Specifically for a hint, Re is rhenium ....
  48. Just a Traveler
    Just a Traveler 26 November 2021 13: 45
    0
    I personally don’t fucking need the Kuril Islands.
    And if I had my way, I would not give a penny to their maintenance and other wishlist of the military.
  49. Just a Traveler
    Just a Traveler 26 November 2021 13: 49
    0
    Quote: Victor Masyuk
    Dear author. Before you say that "there is nothing of value in these plots of land," study the issue of rare earth metals and their implications for the modern high-tech economy. Specifically for a hint, Re is rhenium ....


    Well, can you go there first with a shovel and go dear? ))))
    What time is there to waste? Work hard for the state, you will earn money for ships for the military.
    And then these poor fellows have nothing to shoot with, but there is no one to protect from ... they are bored.
  50. link
    link 26 November 2021 14: 09
    0
    The author has read a lot of Japanese sites, but did not bother to read about the Kuril Islands, so he writes: "There is nothing of value in these pieces of land. No tourist cluster, no mining." I'll start with the mining. Rhenium is mined on Iturup Island (South Kuriles) - a very rare metal, without which the manufacture of aircraft and missile engines is unthinkable. There are practically no rhenium reserves in Russia. Only Chile (1st place), as well as Kazakhstan, Poland and Germany can boast of this in the world. Traveling for tourist purposes to the Kuril Islands is probably very expensive, although it is interesting and beautiful there, but the strategic importance of the Kuriles is more important - there are non-freezing straits for our fleet to enter the operational space in the Pacific Ocean. After all, the Pacific Fleet ships cannot cross the Tsugaru Strait between Hokkaido and mainland Japan, as they did recently together with Chinese ships? They will sink there at once. As with the passage of another (Korea Strait) next to the notorious Fr. Tsushima. So the Kurils are important to Russia as an outlet to the ocean. Therefore, they are not given away.