Military Review

Combat ships. Cruisers. Red "Svetlana" who were unlucky

76

Yes, fans of cruisers will forgive me for a slightly minor tone, but it just so happened. It is impossible not to write about Soviet cruisers, but there is nothing special to write about, how about warships. And it is not the fault of the ships that there were no sensible commanders and naval commanders for them. That is why the fate of "Svetlana" turned out - God forbid anyone else.


These ships were conceived as the next generation of squadron cruisers, taking into account the experience of the Russian-Japanese war. These were supposed to be universal ships: for reconnaissance, patrol service as part of a squadron, countering enemy destroyers, independent raiding operations, and disrupting enemy sea communications.

The ships were planned to be built as part of the 1912-1916 program, they were very necessary in order to compensate for the losses of the Russian fleet in the Russian-Japanese war (only 9 cruisers remained in a combat state), however, the outbreak of the First World War and the subsequent February and October revolutions and the Civil War, sentenced all the terms of the project.

In 1913, Svetlana and Admiral Greig were laid down in Revel, and Admiral Butakov and Admiral Spiridov in St. Petersburg.

Combat ships. Cruisers. Red "Svetlana" who were unlucky


"Admiral Nakhimov", "Admiral Lazarev", "Admiral Istomin", "Admiral Kornilov" were laid down in Nikolaev. The first four ships were intended for the Baltic, the second series, logically, for the Black Sea.

As a result, only three cruisers were built and two were converted into tankers. But the completion of the ships took a very long time. After the February events of 1917, all work on the ships was suspended by the Provisional Government. An exception was made only for "Svetlana", but in March 1918 all work was stopped. The readiness of the Svetlana was 80%, for the rest of the ships - from 30 to 50%.

The cruisers stayed at the outfitting berths until the end of 1924, when the USSR Labor and Defense Council allocated funds for the repair and modernization of a number of ships. Hands reached the cruisers. But very little money was allocated, so there was no talk of a full-fledged completion of the cruisers, especially since by the time work began, they were already completely outdated.

As a result, "Svetlana" was renamed into "Profintern" (from my point of view, the name quite claims to be one of the poorest in the world) and completed by the middle of 1927.


The second ship of the project, Admiral Butakov / Voroshilov, was unlucky. The decision to complete the construction was made twice and was canceled twice. As a result, the ship was dismantled for metal.

The last two cruisers were not half lucky: the cruisers were rebuilt into tankers. Admiral Greig was completed as Azneft, and Admiral Spiridov became Grozneft. The tankers turned out quite well, because the armored hulls made it possible to safely sail in ice conditions.


Tanker "Grozneft"

So out of the four laid down cruisers, in fact, only one turned out. Subsequently, the ship received a more euphonious name "Red Crimea", under which we will continue to consider it.

In general, it turned out to be a very controversial ship. Yes, it took more than 10 years to build it, so it was definitely outdated and was nothing special. But the country, which had forgotten how to build ships, did not have much choice, so they tried to get the most out of Svetlana.

Reservation


Armor protection of the cruiser consisted of two belts. The first belt of armor protection was located between the sides and the upper and lower decks, and the second - between the sides and the lower deck. The armor of the first belt was 25 mm thick. The belt was 2,25 m wide and ran along the entire hull between the decks.

The main armor belt was 75 mm thick, 2,1 m high and also went along the entire length of the hull. The traverses were 50 mm thick. The lower and upper decks were 20 mm thick and the aft was 25 mm thick.

The chimney casings were 20 mm thick, the elevators were armored with casings 25 mm thick.

The conning tower had a wall thickness of 125 mm, a roof of 75 mm and a floor of 50 mm. The communication pipe, through which cables and wires from artillery and ship control devices were laid, had a thickness of 75 mm.

The main guns on the deck had box-shaped shields 25 mm thick, and the casemate main guns had shields 20 mm thick.

Power plant


All ships had a power plant of 13 boilers, which supplied 4 turbines with steam. Svetlana had Yarrow boilers and Curtiss-AEG turbines. The power of the power plant reached 107 hp.

The boilers were housed in seven boiler rooms, in the first one there was one boiler in the others - two each. In two aft compartments there were universal boilers, in the rest they were pure oil. Coal pits were located along the sides in the area of ​​the feed boiler rooms. The oil was stored in the double bottom space and in the side compartments of the engine rooms. The normal fuel supply was 500 tons (370 tons of oil and 130 tons of coal), full 1167 tons.

During tests, the cruiser showed a speed of 29,5 knots. On normal fuel, the cruiser could travel 470 miles at 29,5 knots, or 575 miles at 24 knots, or 1230 miles at 16 knots.

To some, these numbers may seem too small. Yes, British cruisers of the time could easily go up to 10 miles at 000 knots. But let me remind you that Svetlana was built for the Baltic and Black Seas, where such distances simply did not exist in principle.

Crew and habitability


The living quarters of the lower ranks (sailors and non-commissioned officers) were located in the lower deck. There, in the quarters, hanging bunks with mattresses stuffed with crushed cork were attached to the ceiling at night. In the daytime, these mattresses were rolled up along with bed linen and taken out on the deck, where they were placed in special bed nets. In case of emergencies, the bunks could serve as life-saving appliances.

The crew ate in the same cabin, where food was delivered from the galley. They ate on hanging tables covered with linoleum.

The officers were housed in cabins, which were located aft of the lower deck. The officers ate in the wardroom, which was located in the stern itself. An officer's buffet and household premises were also equipped there.

The cruiser had refrigerators for storing food, three galleys (for officers, non-commissioned officers and sailors) in the middle superstructure, a bakery, laundries with steam dryers and washing machines, a sauna with a steam room on the lower deck and a separate sauna for stokers.

On the lower deck, a medical compartment was equipped with a reception area, an operating unit, a pharmacy and two infirmaries.

The rooms were well ventilated through windows, there was steam heating.

In general, the living conditions on the ships were at the level of world standards. The crew initially consisted of 630 people, but during the Great Patriotic War it increased significantly, to almost 800. The seal affected the living conditions, but initially they were very comfortable ships.

weaponry


The main caliber of the "Svetlana" consisted of fifteen 130-mm B-7 guns of the 1913 model.


Six guns were casemate, nine were deck-mounted.


The guns on the deck were located as follows: one gun in front of the conning tower, the rest four on the side from the tank to the stern superstructure. Casemate guns were located in two groups: four in the bow in the tank superstructure, two in the aft superstructure. That is, the cruiser could fire a salvo of eight guns on the side. In principle, not bad, unless you look at the spread of shells with such a volley.


The rate of fire of the manually loaded B-7 guns was about 6 rounds per minute. The guns were also guided manually.

Auxiliary and anti-aircraft weapons


As anti-aircraft (anti-aircraft according to the project) armament, anti-aircraft guns of the Lender system with a caliber of 63,3 mm were to be used. Two guns were to be mounted on the forecastle and two on the stern superstructure.

Melee anti-aircraft armament consisted of four Maxim machine guns mounted on the wings of the bridge.

Mine torpedo armament


Initially, it was planned to equip the ships with 457-mm underwater torpedo tubes. The devices were installed 2,8 meters below the waterline and were rigidly attached to the hull. The aiming of torpedoes at the target was carried out by the entire hull of the ship using special sights placed in the conning tower.

The ammunition load was three torpedoes per vehicle. The shooting was carried out using compressed air.

During the completion of the construction, the Svetlana received three three-tube deck torpedo tubes with a caliber of 450-mm model 1913.


In addition to torpedoes, the cruiser could take on board up to 100 sea barrage mines, which could be installed both from the mine raft and from the ship's side along the rail guides.

Upgrades and combat service


Since the ships were commissioned at different times and in different configurations, the modernization work deserves a separate consideration.

"Svetlana" / "Profintern" / "Red Crimea"


At the time of commissioning, the cruiser lost machine guns and Lender's cannons and instead received eight anti-aircraft guns of the 75-mm Möller system.


It was a rework of Kane's guns for shooting at aerial targets.

The cruiser received its air group from two MU-1 seaplanes, which were located on the site between the second and third chimneys. Seaplanes took off from the water, where they were lowered with a special crane.


In 1938, the 75 mm guns were removed and the 21 mm K-45 semi-automatic cannons were installed instead. In 1941 aviation the equipment was removed, and the ship received seven 12,7 mm DShK machine guns.

In 1942, four single-barreled 20-mm Oerlikon anti-aircraft machine guns and two four-barreled 12,7 mm Vickers machine guns were installed.


In 1943, 20 mm anti-aircraft guns and three 12,7 mm DShK machine guns were dismantled. Instead, ten 37-mm 70-K anti-aircraft guns were installed.


In 1944, the 45-mm guns were removed, and the ship received a British-built Type 291 radar.

Combat service "Red Crimea" (the terrible chase "Profintern" was replaced in 1939) began not like all ships of the Black Sea Fleet, but on August 1, 1941, after leaving the scheduled repair.


The cruiser participated in the landing near Odessa (Grigorievka), fired at areas occupied by the enemy.


I took out the employees of the State Bank and money from Odessa. Until the end of 1941, the cruiser went with cargo to Sevastopol, once participated in the destruction of an artillery battery and shot down an enemy aircraft.


In total, by the beginning of February 1942, the "Red Crimea" made 98 flights to Sevastopol with cargo and replenishment.

Further, the cruiser participated in the evacuation from Novorossiysk, transferred troops to Tuapse as part of the defense of the Caucasus. Until the end of 1942, "Red Crimea" transported about 60 people and more than 000 tons of various cargo.


Loading on board the cruiser

In October 1943, the cruiser was put under repair in Batumi, which lasted until the end of the summer of 1944.

On November 5, 1944, the cruiser Krasny Krym was given the high honor to lead a squadron of warships of the Black Sea Fleet returning to Sevastopol.


During the Great Patriotic War, the "Red Crimea" took part in almost all the operations of the Black Sea Fleet and for all the time did not receive a single serious damage.

It is worth noting that the functions assigned to the battle cruiser would be more suitable for an amphibious assault ship.

"Admiral Nakhimov" / "Chervona Ukraine"


Laid down in 1913, the cruiser was completed only in 1926. Completed in fact according to the original project.

Historical fact: Stalin rarely honored ships of the fleet with his visit, but in 1929 he visited Chervona Ukraina together with Sergo Ordzhonikidze.


Before the war itself, it underwent a major overhaul that lasted two years. During the repair, the ship's air defense was strengthened by installing three twin 100-mm Minisini installations.


With the beginning of the war, the cruiser was busy with mine laying in the Sevastopol region. The mines were installed, but played into the hands of the enemy, making it difficult for the evacuation of Soviet troops from Sevastopol.

The cruiser provided artillery support to the troops defending Odessa and removed the army personnel from the city.

After the surrender of Odessa, "Chervona Ukraine" on November 8, 1941 moved to Sevastopol, where it also supported the defense of the city with artillery fire.


On November 12, 1941, a cruiser at the Grafskaya pier in Sevastopol was attacked by German bombers. 28 planes dropped bombs on Chervona Ukraina. The cruiser, stationary at the Grafskaya pier, was in a deliberately disadvantageous position. The crew fired from all available types weaponsbut two bombs hit the ship in the waist area. Three more bombs exploded in the immediate vicinity of the sides.

The cruiser received about 500 tons of water, but kept afloat and continued to fire at the aircraft. The battle went on until nightfall, and at night the cruiser, which at that time had received more than 4 tons of water, banked critically. The commander ordered the crew to leave the ship. The last longboat managed to move away from the sinking ship when Chervona Ukraina sank to the bottom with a roll of 000 degrees.


The shallow depth of the bay made it possible to remove 130-mm guns and use them in the defense of the city, forming two batteries. Two 100-mm universal mounts were raised and installed on the Krasny Kavkaz cruiser.

"Admiral Lazarev" / "Red Caucasus"


The cruiser was laid down in 1913, and the ship entered the ranks of the Red Army Navy only in 1926. The ship was being completed according to a more modern project and lost its casemate guns. The absence of side sponsons significantly changed the appearance of the ship.


The cruiser was immediately converted to oil power, the coal pits were abolished. The power plant of the cruiser consisted of 10 Yarrow oil boilers and 4 Parsons steam turbines, which directly, without turbo-gear units, turned 4 three-blade propellers. The power plant produced 55000 hp.

On tests, the ship developed a speed of 29 knots, the cruising range at full speed was 457 miles, and at an economical speed of 12 knots - 1490 miles.

Upgrades


As part of the completion with simultaneous modernization, the deck was significantly rearranged, since it was necessary to place the main caliber turrets. To accommodate the two bow towers with turret compartments, one of the three chimneys was removed and the entire bow superstructure was shifted back. The stern superstructure had to be completely removed, and a pneumatic catapult for a seaplane was installed in the vacant space. The design of the masts was changed, on which the command and rangefinder posts were placed.

Important changes have taken place in artillery armament. Instead of 15 130-mm guns stuck all over the hull, 4 B-1-K 180-mm guns were installed in single-gun turrets.


The weight of the side salvo increased due to the heavier projectile (97,5 kg versus 33,5 for the 130-mm projectile), the new guns fired further (39 km versus 22,3 km), and mechanical loading almost did not change the rate of fire, the same 5 -6 rounds per minute versus 6-8 for 130mm guns.

The B-1-K were more than controversial weapons. They had excellent ballistic data, for which they had to pay with the resource of the barrels. It was no more than 55 shots per barrel with a full charge of gunpowder. The figure is completely frivolous, the cruisers in the battles of the Second World War in the Pacific Ocean fired more shells in one battle easily and naturally.

Anti-aircraft armament also changed. Lender's cannons were replaced with 100-mm B-2 mounts, in addition to which 4 semi-automatic 21-K 45-mm cannons were installed. In 1934, twin 100-mm Minisini installations were purchased in Italy. Such installations have replaced the outdated B-2 at the Krasny Kavkaz.

During the war, all 45-mm cannons were removed, instead of them, 70-K anti-aircraft guns with a caliber of 37 mm were installed. The catapult was dismantled, instead of which four more 37-mm machine guns were installed.


In 1942, during the repair, two more 100-mm twin Minisini installations were installed, removed from the Chervona Ukrainy, and on the roofs of the elevated towers of the main caliber, quad 12,7-mm Vickers anti-aircraft machine guns received from the British under Lend-Lease were mounted. At the stern, behind the main battery turrets, two 76,2 mm 34-K anti-aircraft guns were installed side by side.


In general, the anti-aircraft armament of the "Krasny Kavkaz" could be considered decent, which was very uncharacteristic for a Soviet ship.

The torpedo armament was increased. It consisted of four 450 mm three-tube torpedo tubes. A very controversial decision and at the same time completely useless. Torpedoes on Soviet cruisers were never used during the war, since there were simply no targets for them.

Combat application



The war for the "Red Caucasus" began with mine laying on June 23, 1941. The cruiser took part in mine missions in the regions of Sevastopol, Odessa, the Kerch Strait, Novorossiysk, Tuapse and Batumi. It is very controversial, because even today it is not entirely clear from whom these mines were protected.

On September 11-12, 1941, it fired at the enemy ground forces near Odessa, 85 shells of the main caliber were expended.


On September 22, 1941, he landed an assault force at the head of a group of ships near Odessa. Moreover, the landing of the main part of the landing was carried out on the rescue equipment of the group of ships, because the detachment of landing ships did not arrive in time to the place of disembarkation.

In October, the cruiser evacuated troops from the abandoned Odessa, participated in the transfer of troops and cargo to Sevastopol, in November evacuated people and equipment from Sevastopol to Novorossiysk.


The day of November 12, 1941 is indicative. The cruiser was moored for loading equipment and personnel, that is, it did not have the ability to evade, and repelled 12 enemy air raids. For the less armed in terms of air defense "Chervony Ukrainy" it ended in sinking. The anti-aircraft artillery of the "Red Caucasus" coped with the task and the ship survived.




Further service of the cruiser was as follows: delivery of reinforcements to Sevastopol, shelling of enemy positions, repelling air raids. In December 1941 he took part in the landing in Feodosia.


For the landing, the cruiser brazenly burst into the harbor and moored. The Germans opened fire, achieved 12 hits with shells of different calibers and 5 mines, fires broke out on the ship, but the landing force was landed and the "Red Caucasus" left for the base. Crew losses were 27 killed and 66 wounded.

In the future, the ship was engaged in the delivery of reinforcements and cargo to Feodosia. On January 4, the picture of Sevastopol was repeated: it was day, the ship was moored at the pier under unloading, German planes were arriving.

Two bombs explode at a shallow depth near the side of the ship. From the water hammer in the aft area, two underwater holes with a total area of ​​about 3 square meters were formed. m, the deck was deformed, the steering was out of order, the large and small rudders were damaged, the sternpost was broken, the propeller shaft of the right aft turbine was torn off along with the propeller and bracket, the bracket of the propeller shaft of the left aft turbine was broken, the aft spire device was disabled.

The ship took in about 1700 tons of water, and the stern sank along the upper deck. The artillery cellars of the aft towers, cabins and rooms with diesel power plants were flooded. The rudders, gyrocompass, telephone communication did not work.

The crew, with superhuman efforts, brought the ship out of the port trap, repaired the leak, pumped out the water and set in motion with two turbines. The speed did not exceed 7,5 knots, 220 miles from Feodosia to Tuapse "Krasny Kavkaz" traveled for about a day, and it was a great happiness that the Germans could not find the ship and finish it off.

The repairs were carried out in Poti, without even having a dock of the required capacity.

Quite naturally, by order of the People's Commissar of the Navy on April 3, 1942, the "Red Caucasus", the first of all the ships of the Soviet fleet, was awarded the rank of Guards.

After completing the repair (rather, patching by the crew), the cruiser made five flights to Tuapse from Poti, delivering replenishment (about 16 people were deployed), a large amount of equipment, including Tanks, more than 1000 tons of ammunition and food.


From September 1944 to May 1945 the Krasny Kavkaz was under repair.

In total, during the period 1941-1943, the "Red Caucasus" made 64 military campaigns, the ship's fire destroyed and suppressed 13 enemy batteries, shot down 3 aircraft. The ship transported more than 60 troops and population, more than 000 tons of ammunition, military equipment and food, repelled over 3 attacks of enemy aircraft, which dropped more than 000 bombs on the cruiser.


After the war, a thorough examination of the cruiser showed its complete deterioration and the inexpediency of major repairs to continue further service. In May 1947, the Krasny Kavkaz was reclassified as a training ship, and five years later the cruiser was decommissioned and used as a target ship.


What can you say about the Svetlana-class cruisers in general? Indeed, the ships were completely unlucky to get into the change of eras. They were completed completely out of date and did not meet the requirements of the time in terms of combat capabilities.

The absence of enemy ships in the Black Sea was, of course, a positive factor. It is difficult to predict the outcome of a duel between cruisers and the same Italian light cruisers, which had a higher speed and more powerful artillery. Condottieri would not have left Svetlana a chance.

But precisely because there were no enemy ships at sea, the cruisers were used as landing barges and high-speed armed transports.

Separately, it should be said about the shelling of territories occupied by the enemy. This was also practiced in the Pacific Ocean, where the Americans supported the landing of their troops. Of course, what happened during the landings on Iwo Jima or Okinawa, when several battleships and a dozen cruisers hammered the island for days, is not comparable to the fact that one cruiser fired 30-40 shells across the areas.

It is difficult to say who counted the destroyed battalions of German infantry and tanks, especially after the entire Crimea was in the hands of the Germans, but the results of the shelling performed by the Americans were more than modest. And there were not 180-mm shells flying.

In general, the “red Svetlans” confidently played exactly the role that they were assigned. The cruiser was inherently more durable than the destroyer leader and destroyer, which is why more was expected from them. And the "old women" did not let them down, regularly delivering reinforcements, ammunition and equipment to the fighting units.

In general, of course, such use of warships of this class is somewhat unjustified; the ships originally intended for such operations would be more suitable for this role. But for this, at the beginning of the war, it was necessary to somehow neutralize the work of the Luftwaffe, which until 1943 did not work.

Therefore, the cruisers got the role of transports. For lack of a better one. However, it should be admitted that the "Red Caucasus" and "Red Crimea" coped with this role more than adequately.
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  1. DrRey
    DrRey 15 November 2021 18: 14
    +8
    Something ships with the name Admiral Butakov cannot be completed with us, they may not use the name right away, but simply lay them under the number.
    1. Crowe
      Crowe 15 November 2021 19: 34
      +44
      By the way, Andrey, about the names - thank you for reminding me ... Roman -
      (the terrible chase "Profintern" was replaced in 1939)
      It’s impossible to talk about the name of the ship. Regardless of whether someone likes it or not. It was very unpleasant (to put it mildly) cut when reading it. It’s impossible. It’s impossible.
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 16 November 2021 05: 17
        +6
        The article is interesting, the selection of photos is simply excellent!

        Quote: Crowe
        So you can't talk about the name of the ship.

        I support! "Profintern" is quite euphonious and short, better than "General-Admiral".

        It is difficult to say who counted the destroyed battalions of German infantry and tanks, especially after the entire Crimea was in the hands of the Germans, but the results of the shelling performed by the Americans were more than modest.
        Well, all the same, the allies were hollowing at the deeply entrenched garrisons, and our ships at the advancing enemy, but yes - the effectiveness without adjustment was low.

        In general, the anti-aircraft armament of the "Krasny Kavkaz" could be considered decent, which was very uncharacteristic for a Soviet ship.
        I do not agree, Soviet self-built ships were equipped with quite adequate air defense.
    2. andrewkor
      andrewkor 17 November 2021 04: 59
      +1
      IF Tsvetkov "Guards cruiser" Krasny Kavkaz "- my desk, long-time book. A detailed history of the construction of" Svetlan ". The author has valuable additions. Thanks to him!
  2. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 15 November 2021 18: 27
    +7
    Thank you, Roman. Of course, I've read about ships before, but it's the first time I've heard about the two hulls being converted into tankers. Test.
    1. Oleg N.
      Oleg N. 16 November 2021 03: 14
      +6
      Really redone, deciding to save money on the construction of tankers. But not many tankers survived. The hulls of the cruisers were not designed for the load of the tanker, which at one time was said at once.
      1. mmaxx
        mmaxx 16 November 2021 06: 06
        +5
        They needed money. Oil could be sold abroad. And they could not finish building the cruiser. Most likely the components were gone.
  3. mark1
    mark1 15 November 2021 18: 27
    +16
    Indeed, the ships were completely unlucky
    They were just very lucky, in spite of what they turned out to be very valuable and demanded ships
  4. Crowe
    Crowe 15 November 2021 19: 22
    +16
    Quite naturally, by order of the People's Commissar of the Navy on April 3, 1942, the "Red Caucasus", the first of all the ships of the Soviet fleet, was awarded the rank of Guards.
    In fairness, in addition to units and formations of the fleet (5th mine-torpedo aviation regiment (converted from the 2nd mine-torpedo aviation regiment) - Black Sea Fleet, 6th Fighter Aviation Regiment (converted from the 8th Fighter Aviation Regiment) - Black Sea Fleet, 4- 4st separate guards mortar division of sailors, 3th separate guards mortar division of sailors - Western Front), as well as submarines of the Northern Fleet ("D-22", "K-171", "M-174", "M-3 ") The guards rank was also awarded to the surface ships of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet by an order dated April 42, XNUMX:
    Minesweeper "Gavel" ("T-205")
    1. Crowe
      Crowe 15 November 2021 19: 23
      +18
      Minelayer "Marty"
      1. Crowe
        Crowe 15 November 2021 19: 25
        +15
        Destroyer "Resistant"
        The commander of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet, Vice Admiral V.F. Tributs presents the flag of the Guards to the crew of the destroyer Stoyky.
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 15 November 2021 19: 34
        +15
        Imperial yacht "Standart".
        1. Crowe
          Crowe 15 November 2021 19: 39
          +15
          You must admit that it is difficult to recognize "Marty", but this is exactly what he is!
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 15 November 2021 19: 49
            +11
            Why is it difficult, the silhouette is quite consistent. By the way, he acted as an auxiliary cruiser "Elizabeth" in a very good, in my opinion, film "Warrant Officer Panin".
          2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 15 November 2021 19: 59
            +11
            Quote: Crowe
            You must admit that it is difficult to recognize "Marty", but this is exactly what he is!

            If I'm not mistaken, we managed to fit four 130mm cannons! Very worthy !!!
            1. Maxim G
              Maxim G 16 November 2021 11: 16
              +3
              Well, on "Almaz" (the one that managed to come to Vladivostok after the defeat in the Tsushima battle) in 1916, 7 120-mm were installed.
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 16 November 2021 15: 00
          +1
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Imperial yacht "Standart".

          One of two large imperial yachts. The second, by the way, also served in the KBF - a submarine floating base, under the old name "Polar Star".
      3. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 16 November 2021 14: 56
        +1
        Quote: Crowe
        Minelayer "Marty"

        Which at the beginning of the war was commanded by Kaperang Meshchersky.

        Former imperial yacht "Standart" under the command of the prince. smile
  5. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 15 November 2021 19: 31
    +18
    Indeed, the ships were completely unlucky to get into the change of eras. They were completed completely out of date and did not meet the requirements of the time in terms of combat capabilities.

    oh-oh-oh-oh ... belay
    By the way, in 17 there was a cycle on the site about "svetlana" well-known Andrey from Chelyabinsk. Tokmo there this ship was given in a parallel comparison with similar peers in a number of European countries.
    So it was for its time of construction (the beginning of WWI) that he was a completely modern cruiser in terms of armament, speed and armor. But the trouble is that they wanted to get such a versatile ship that it turned out to be more of the same age and more expensive. We had to pay for everything, well, with a very indecently short cruising range. Moreover, the archaic arrangement of part of the artillery in casemates with sharp contours led to the flooding of casemate guns in waves. For the Baltic and the Black Sea, it was quite okay, but ... But the luck of the ship in the characteristics is judged by the balance. In our case, we can say that the squadron qualities prevailed over the cruising ones. Almost completely armored side along the waterline, powerful long-range 130mm guns had the right to life during WWII. But only if there is a very high-quality SUAO. And if in speed and seaworthiness the ships were already well outperformed by the cruisers of the interwar era and on the eve of WWII, the progress in the development of artillery of Western "partners" led to the fact that the ships could no longer stand up to criticism. And only the isolation and secondary importance of the Baltic and the Black Sea led to the fact that there were no corny opponents there. Well, aviation has made everyone equal. Therefore, a kind of modernization of the ship in the form of the "Red Caucasus" showed, it seems, the correctness of the path. Yes, and "Chervona Ukraina" with "Red Crimea" could be upgraded more qualitatively - remove casemate guns, put in a high-quality SUAO, radically strengthen the air defense due to the vacated displacement. In the absence of worthy surface opponents, this would have been the right decision, but history does not know the subjunctive mood.
    As a result, these ships for their time and theater of intended actions were very powerful combat units, although not without chronic flaws. But in theory, they could well butt with classmates ...
    And what
    cruisers got the role of transports.

    so this time was the same and the conditions of war in this theater. hi request
    1. FCSO
      FCSO 17 November 2021 20: 43
      +1
      And they were going to be modernized, replacing the casemate artillery of the main battery with three two-gun 130-mm B-2LM turrets. Instead of Italian paired "hundred parts" were to install domestic single-gun installations B-24 with higher ballistic characteristics, well, and 37-mm machine guns 70-K ...
  6. Martin
    Martin 15 November 2021 19: 43
    +22
    And why, in fact, is the tone "minor"?
    Judging by the battle path of the cruisers, they have done a lot. Not all foreign ships of more modern construction have made this contribution. Did you perform tasks not quite typical for this class of ships? That's good. Rather than standing and waiting for tasks specifically for you to appear, isn't it better to do what you can.
    Actually, this article once again showed that the ship is not hardware plus technology, but, first of all, the crew.
    For the landing, the cruiser brazenly burst into the harbor and moored.
    In my opinion, this is more abrupt than secretly heading into Scapa Flow and planting a torpedo in the belly of a battleship. Fortunately, no one sniffed there, but here everything is under fire.
    In my opinion, super-duper Tirpitz (with crew) did less for Germany.
  7. Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 15 November 2021 20: 04
    +18
    anti-aircraft guns of the Lender system with a caliber of 63,3 mm

    What is this?
    Cannon Lender, more precisely Lender-Tarnavsky, was 76mm


    And the 63.5mm caliber (if you do not remember the Baranovsky cannon) was at the anti-aircraft gun of the Obukhov plant.
    1. Region-25.rus
      Region-25.rus 15 November 2021 20: 37
      +12
      Cannon Lender, more precisely Lender-Tarnavsky, was 76mm
      now they are on Aurora

      and another angle -

      It also seems that I saw it in TsVMMF in a more complete state. But I didn't find something in my photos ((
    2. Region-25.rus
      Region-25.rus 15 November 2021 21: 18
      +10
      if you do not remember the Baranovsky cannon
      This one? -

      1. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 15 November 2021 21: 19
        +8
        This?

        She is the most.
        1. Region-25.rus
          Region-25.rus 15 November 2021 21: 24
          +8
          Next time I will shoot something else in the digital computer)) Will there be applications?))
    3. Region-25.rus
      Region-25.rus 15 November 2021 21: 33
      +7
      Lender's Cannon
      by the way, we did this for WarThunder .. It seems for the destroyer "Frunze"
  8. Region-25.rus
    Region-25.rus 15 November 2021 20: 24
    +16
    As a result, "Svetlana" was renamed into "Profintern" (from my point of view, the name quite claims to be one of the poorest in the world)
    without having to grunt at the Epoch .. well, not how huh? Conjuncture! She's so .. weak-a-adorable yes!
    1. lucul
      lucul 15 November 2021 21: 34
      +5
      without having to grunt at the Age

      Well, they like to refer to the Soviet legacy here - they say Russia uses only the Soviet legacy. So it is here - the USSR made full use of the tsarist heritage in the form of ships.
      And there is nothing wrong with that - the rulers (like the system) come and go, but Russia always remains.
      1. Region-25.rus
        Region-25.rus 15 November 2021 21: 36
        +9
        as here - the USSR used the tsarist heritage in the form of ships with might and main.
        fortunately, he was smart enough not to start building battleships. and use steel for the construction of factories, tanks and aircraft. And in the first five-year plans
        1. lucul
          lucul 15 November 2021 21: 38
          .
          fortunately, he was smart enough not to start building battleships. and use steel for the construction of factories, tanks and aircraft. And in the first five-year plans

          And the tsar threw all his strength into the fleet, that before Tsushima, that after, that is why he failed the development of the economy.
          1. Region-25.rus
            Region-25.rus 15 November 2021 21: 45
            +10
            And the king threw all his strength into the fleet, that before Tsushima, that after
            and how many grand dukes plundered on all sorts of ballerinas? As there they whistled from the hall to Kseshinskaya - "your diamonds are our lost fleet at Tsushima !!!"
        2. populist
          populist 15 November 2021 22: 24
          +5
          The lead battleship Sovetsky Soyuz, serial number C-299, was laid down in Leningrad at the Baltic Shipyard. This is evidenced by the official report:
          In 1938-1939, three more battleships were laid down at two other enterprises: Sovetskaya Ukraina (S-352) in Nikolaev, Sovetskaya Rossiya (S-101) and Sovetskaya Belorussia (S-102) in Molotovsk.
          In October 1940, an order was given to suspend the construction of the Sovetskaya Belorussia ship, which was 1% complete, and concentrate the main efforts on the Sovetsky Soyuz ship [3]. Due to the outbreak of World War II, the construction of battleships was stopped (the readiness of the "Soviet Union" was 19,44%, "Soviet Ukraine" - only 7%), and at the end of the war the unfinished ships were dismantled.
          1. Region-25.rus
            Region-25.rus 15 November 2021 22: 28
            +4
            metal turned out to be more important.
            1. Vladimir1155
              Vladimir1155 16 November 2021 11: 31
              -4
              the battleship program was absurd even before Tsushima, according to the results of the Second World War, a decision was made that it was erroneous in principle ... and its criminal lobbyists Kuznetsov Haller Alafuzov Stepanov suffered deserved punishment (prison), all these percentages of the construction of unnecessary battleships, this is a lack of aircraft tanks and life dead soldiers
              1. Region-25.rus
                Region-25.rus 16 November 2021 11: 58
                +1
                based on the results of the Second World War, a decision was made that it was erroneous in principle ..
                so already in the 41st it was clear that the aviation was sinking these dreadnoughts very wow!
                1. Vladimir1155
                  Vladimir1155 16 November 2021 12: 19
                  -1
                  Quote: Region-25.rus
                  so already in the 41st it was clear that the aviation was sinking these dreadnoughts very wow!

                  true, and the submarines also sunk surface ships with almost impunity
                  1. Region-25.rus
                    Region-25.rus 16 November 2021 12: 20
                    +2
                    and the submarines also sunk surface ships with almost impunity
                    Well, depending on where and when. Until 1942, about the "boys of the denitz" frolicked with might and main in the Atlantic, yes! Then the British took them up as an adult)))
              2. Potter
                Potter 16 November 2021 14: 17
                +5
                The main ideologist of the Big Fleet was I.V. Stalin personally. And the main criminals of 1941 were incompetent ground generals, who pissed off 25000 tanks and the same number of aircraft in six months. And if you gave them at least 125000, they would still be fucked up at the level of operational and strategic military art that they had.
          2. Macsen_wledig
            Macsen_wledig 16 November 2021 18: 36
            +1
            Quote: populist
            In October 1940, an order was given to suspend the construction of the Sovetskaya Belorussia ship, 1% ready, and concentrate the main efforts on the Sovetsky Soyuz ship [3]

            Platonov wrote that the problem was in the mass marriage of riveting of the compartments of the second bottom of the "Belorussia".
            1. Romka47
              Romka47 17 November 2021 17: 15
              0
              good afternoon hi
              Always after articles about ships I look for your comments as an addition, and there has always been some criticism, if I'm not mistaken now for the first time without it, what can you say about the article as a whole? And I will be grateful if you add something, because whatever our ships are, they are all exactly native and I want to know more about them. Thanks to
              1. Macsen_wledig
                Macsen_wledig 17 November 2021 18: 21
                +1
                Quote: Romka47
                Always after articles about ships I look for your comments as an addition, and there has always been some criticism, if I'm not mistaken now for the first time without it, what can you say about the article as a whole?

                How to say so, so that someone (not you) does not offend ... :)
                1. Not for the first time.
                2. I am sometimes too lazy to comment on mistakes, fantasies and other brain juice of the author, created by him on the basis of books, Wikipedia and any other Internet.
                If you are interested in "Svetlana", that is (including on the Internet):
                A. Chernyshev. Stalin's guards cruisers
                A. Skvortsov. Guards cruiser Krasny Kavkaz
                I. Tsvetkov. Guards cruiser Krasny Kavkaz
                1. Romka47
                  Romka47 17 November 2021 18: 48
                  0
                  Understand )
                  Thank you very much, the time has just appeared, I read it in the evenings hi
        3. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
          Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 16 November 2021 17: 21
          0
          Stalin is clever! And rightly so, he shot lousy advisers and opposition commissars. Tanks and planes later saved us in the summer of 1941.
    2. mmaxx
      mmaxx 16 November 2021 06: 09
      +1
      But the title is really awful.
    3. avg avg
      avg avg 17 November 2021 12: 18
      0
      This is the author's style, there is nothing to be done!
  9. lucul
    lucul 15 November 2021 21: 29
    0
    The cruiser had refrigerators for storing food, three galleys (for officers, non-commissioned officers and sailors) in the middle superstructure, a bakery, laundries with steam dryers and washing machines, a sauna with a steam room on the lower deck and a separate sauna for stokers.
    On the lower deck, a medical compartment was equipped with a reception area, an operating unit, a pharmacy and two infirmaries.
    The rooms were well ventilated through windows, there was steam heating.
    In general, the living conditions on the ships were at the level of world standards.

    "Oaths the king"))))
    1. Saxahorse
      Saxahorse 15 November 2021 21: 53
      +7
      Quote: lucul
      "Oaths the king"

      Yeah .. It is problematic to ventilate the rooms on the lower deck well through the windows. It is forbidden to open them, floods them. It seemed to me that Roman had this sarcasm, but as I looked, some believed it. laughing
      1. lucul
        lucul 16 November 2021 12: 15
        0
        It seemed to me that Roman had this sarcasm, but as I looked, some believed it.

        I just copied the segment, leaving nothing out of the text.
        But of course you preferred to see only this, and
        The cruiser had refrigerators for storing food, three galleys (for officers, non-commissioned officers and sailors) in the middle superstructure, a bakery, laundries with steam dryers and washing machines, a sauna with a steam room on the lower deck and a separate sauna for stokers.
        On the lower deck, a medical compartment was equipped with a reception area, an operating unit, a pharmacy and two infirmaries.

        Prefer not to notice, right?
        1. Region-25.rus
          Region-25.rus 16 November 2021 18: 29
          +3
          Prefer not to notice, right?
          a generally standard set of premises and services for a large warship of ANY country. With certain additions and conventions. Called upon to create as far as possible the living conditions for the crew. So what?
  10. Gookuni yeddey
    Gookuni yeddey 15 November 2021 22: 08
    +5
    Quote: Crowe
    By the way, Andrey, about the names - thank you for reminding me ... Roman -
    (the terrible chase "Profintern" was replaced in 1939)
    It’s impossible to talk about the name of the ship. Regardless of whether someone likes it or not. It was very unpleasant (to put it mildly) cut when reading it. It’s impossible. It’s impossible.

    Agree. Mryaks don't do that.
  11. Gookuni yeddey
    Gookuni yeddey 15 November 2021 22: 14
    +5
    Quote: DrRey
    Something ships with the name Admiral Butakov cannot be completed with us, they may not use the name right away, but simply lay them under the number.
    Believe it or not: then and then, until the end of Soviet times, ships / orders were only numbered. And when I took part in the posting of Varyag, no one called him Brezhnev or Tbilisi. 106th order is all.
  12. xomaNN
    xomaNN 15 November 2021 23: 53
    +2
    Yes, the situation is almost a tracing: after the Soviet Union went into oblivion, those unfinished ships, especially the nuclear submarines of Soviet projects like 971 in Sevmash, were rebuilt into the Borey nuclear submarine.
  13. mmaxx
    mmaxx 16 November 2021 06: 17
    +3
    The author did not highlight one point. By the 40s, Krasny Kavkaz had fully fired gun barrels. The issue of replacing the towers with twin tower installations of 130 mm was considered. Why not another 180 mm? After all, by that time they had already been brought to mind? This question always remains a question. Most likely the sailors were not in aostorg from 180 mm. All this suggests that the cruiser was incapable of combat according to the Main Committee.
    In any case, the use of the fleet in WWII is the opposite example of the Russian-Japanese war. It was necessary, the fleet did not defend itself, but acted. Not as expected, but fought.
    1. Macsen_wledig
      Macsen_wledig 16 November 2021 18: 40
      +2
      Quote: mmaxx
      The issue of replacing the towers with twin tower installations of 130 mm was considered. Why not another 180 mm? After all, by that time they had already been brought to mind?

      They brought it.
      By converting the gun from a separate-sleeve to a separate-cartridge loading (the wedge breech was changed to a piston one). To put the new trunks, it was necessary to slightly less than completely redo the towers, feeds and cellars.
  14. Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 16 November 2021 11: 27
    -2
    small ships (light cruisers) are at least some kind of benefit (aka transport for personnel), and the battleships turned out to be useless all battleships once Marat shot in 1919 at the destroyers pursuing our EM and all three battleships for 30 years and two wars ... turned out to be useless like all too bulky ships, in terms of displacement all the cruisers Svetlana and one battleship
  15. boris epstein
    boris epstein 16 November 2021 11: 58
    0
    lyb yen yen v yorts yb yokak, unart yuovs an ytidag onzhun N But the country, which had forgotten how to build ships, did not have much choice, so they tried to get the most out of Svetlana.
  16. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 16 November 2021 12: 27
    0
    Quote: mmaxx
    It was necessary, the fleet did not defend itself, but acted. Not as expected, but fought.

    The Soviet fleet (including the old battleships and cruisers) fought non-stop, at full load of ships, against the main enemy (German ground forces), on a decisive front and in the decisive period of the war. More efficient use of the fleet is difficult to imagine.
  17. boris epstein
    boris epstein 16 November 2021 12: 30
    +1
    "But the country, which has forgotten how to build ships, did not have much choice, so they tried to get the most out of Svetlana."
    This country (USSR) in the 30s built 6 quite successful light cruisers - Kirov, Kalinin, Maxim Gorky, Kaganovich, Molotov, Voroshilov. And a series of light cruisers such as Chapaev-Chapaev, Valery Chkalov, Zheleznyakov, Frunze, Kuibyshev. There were also Ordzhonikidze and Sverdlov, but they were not completed.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 16 November 2021 15: 20
      +1
      Quote: Boris Epstein
      This country (USSR) in the 30s built 6 quite successful light cruisers - Kirov, Kalinin, Maxim Gorky, Kaganovich, Molotov, Voroshilov. And a series of light cruisers such as Chapaev-Chapaev, Valery Chkalov, Zheleznyakov, Frunze, Kuibyshev. There were also Ordzhonikidze and Sverdlov, but they were not completed.

      Rather, it was not built, but laid in the 30s. Because only four RCs were completed and commissioned before the war - a pair of pr. 26 ("Kirov" KBF and "Voroshilov" Black Sea Fleet) and a couple of pr. 26-bis ("Maxim Gorky" KBF and "Molotov" Black Sea Fleet). Moreover, "Kirov" was traditionally adopted by the Navy in an unprepared state and was completed for another year.
      September 25, the commission signed an act on acceptance of the ship in the KBF. The next day, a naval flag was hoisted on a cruiser. In the act, the commission noted "a large number of unfinished work." In particular, the rate of fire of the main caliber guns turned out to be low, the armor protection of the torpedo tubes was not installed, the aircraft equipment and the MPUAZO system were not handed over, the paired device, the main turbine gearboxes, the fittings of the main and auxiliary steam pipelines of superheated and saturated steam were not replaced. The acceptance certificate was approved by the Deputy People's Commissar of the Navy, 1st rank flagship I.S. Isakov on October 16, 1938.
      By April 1939, most of these imperfections and defects could not be eliminated, which disrupted the planned trip of "Kirov" to the opening of the International New York Exhibition.
      © A.A. Chernyshev. Cruisers of the "Kirov" class.

      The Far Eastern pair of pr. 26-bis was completed already in wartime and according to the principle "from what was available." Because of the war, the supply chains have disintegrated.

      And of the seven planted KRL pr. 68 ("Chapaev") by the beginning of the war, not even all were launched. The corps of the Ordzhonikidze and Sverdlov KRLs went to the Germans along with Nikolaev's stocks. As a result, five survivors of the war KRL pr. 68 were completed at the end of the 40s according to the revised project 68-K.
      1. boris epstein
        boris epstein 16 November 2021 17: 45
        +1
        So all the same, not only the pre-revolutionary Svetlans were in the USSR Navy, and the Chapaevs, although they were commissioned in the fleet in 1950, were still in the ranks! They knew how to build! In addition to cruisers, destroyers of the 7th and 7th projects were built, leaders of destroyers of the Leningrad type, minesweepers of the Polukhin type, submarines of the C, Sh, K, D, M types. Before the war, they developed and laid down Ognevoy-type destroyers. Completed after the war. And then all mom and mom.
  18. Victor Leningradets
    Victor Leningradets 16 November 2021 13: 49
    0
    Thank you, Roman, for an interesting story about the firstborn of the Soviet Navy.
    By the way, please correct the error:
    The power of the power plant reached 107 hp.

    "Svetlana" - 50 hp, "Admiral Nakhimov" - 000 hp.
    In general, there was no point in completing these ships as cruisers from the word "at all". They did not correspond to the concept of "light cruiser" neither in armament, nor in travel speed, nor in survivability (even "Krasny Kavkaz"). It was necessary to finish building "Emperor Nicholas I" (renamed "Democracy" - that's a name!) Due to the armor of weapons and mechanisms of "Empress Mary" and Empress Catherine the Great "(" Free Russia "). It would be desirable to buy the cruisers in Italy, on the Black Sea - the very thing, but the completion as tankers - why not?
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 16 November 2021 15: 49
      +3
      Quote: Victor Leningradets
      In general, there was no point in completing these ships as cruisers from the word "at all". They did not correspond to the concept of "light cruiser" neither in armament, nor in travel speed, nor in survivability (even "Krasny Kavkaz"). It was necessary to finish building "Emperor Nicholas I" (renamed "Democracy" - that's a name!) Due to the armor of weapons and mechanisms of "Empress Mary" and Empress Catherine the Great "(" Free Russia ").

      The problem is that it’s the mid-20s. No money left. There is no industry. The maximum possible is the completion of ships with a high degree of readiness using the backlog of tsarist times.
      Just to understand the state of affairs: in the late 20s, the Navy did not have enough money even for the average modernization of the Marat.
      The hearing in NTKM of the battleship modernization project, developed by the Design Bureau of the Baltic Shipyard according to the instructions of the Technical Directorate, took place only on April 28, 1929. The project provided for the transfer of boilers from mixed to pure oil heating, and of two possible options - replacing the previous 25 boilers with 12 more efficient ones (from battle cruisers of the Izmail type) or re-equipping old boilers with a decrease in their number to 22 - the second, less technically rational, but cheaper (costs 3,2 and 2,7 million rubles, respectively)
      © A.M. Vasiliev. Line ships of the "Marat" type.

      On the other hand, the industry was unable to restore the combat readiness of the Frunze LK after the fire (moreover, the LK was used as a source of spare parts for the remaining three Sowings). And until the end of the 30s, with an increase in the firing range of 12 "three-gun" towers - "technically impossible."

      The Svetlans were just lucky that they were able to assemble three cruisers from the reserve for eight cruisers.

      According to Nikolay, the first question is - where is the vertical armor? The ship is unique, there are no analogues. The industry cannot make thick armor of any type.
      In addition, due to the lack of technical conditions and mastered technology, the factories, and with them the NKOP, even in 1938, refused to manufacture slabs with a thickness of more than 200 mm.
      © Vasiliev. Battleships of the "Soviet Union" type.
      The second question is what about the towers and accessories for them? The problem is the same. It was not a good life that I had to abandon the completion of the Izmailov, and later cannibalize the Frunze for the 981st battery.
      1. Victor Leningradets
        Victor Leningradets 16 November 2021 20: 35
        -1
        Oh, Alexey, you outlined the VERSION of the saboteurs "Well, I didn’t shmogla ..."
        In fact, the point is not at all about money, but about the fact that the foreign puppeteers of the Comintern in every possible way finished off the Russian Empire to an irreparable state.
        It was this that gave rise to the pogrom of the remnants of the fleet with the hasty dispatch of all valuable unfinished construction for cutting in 1921 - 1922. Hence the dictum of the Trotskyist Tukhachevsky that the RSFSR fleet is not needed, but only light forces of the Red Army are needed for coastal operations (and after all, he achieved his goal!). This became the reason for the personnel pogrom in shipbuilding and naval science. And most importantly, the desire to save has led only to the fact that the country had to be rebuilt in an empty space after spending six years (1922 - 1927) with incredible efforts and at enormous costs. If this had not happened, it would not have been necessary in the mid-30s to start the fleet building program practically from scratch.
        And the battleship on the Black Sea still appeared due to the transfer of the "Paris Commune" from the Baltic.
        Here's about the completion of "Nicholas I":
        - mechanisms and cauldrons from "Empress Mary" were in quite good condition;
        - the same for the main battery towers and secondary battery artillery;
        - vertical armor from the "Empress Mary", and later from the "Empress Catherine the Great" - a replenishment, only the edges of some must be pierced under the changed contours, and the step of the frames is the same;
        - if you do not set deliberately idiotic tasks to create a battle cruiser from a slow-moving dreadnought, by 1930 it is quite possible to commission a Black Sea battleship in the Marat 1931 format.
        I am not talking about the enormous modernization potential of Izmailov, they could only be raised by establishing mutually beneficial cooperation with one highly developed European power, which the Trotskyists, of course, could not allow.
        1. Oleg N.
          Oleg N. 17 November 2021 12: 07
          +2
          I definitely support it. When I tried to quickly sort out that mess with the fleet, I realized that the fun 90s, when everything was sold and disappeared, was just a playground for a nursery group. Maybe someday I will be able to put together a clear picture of those years.
        2. Andy
          Andy 18 November 2021 10: 31
          0
          I am not talking about the huge modernization potential of Izmailov

          it was not. the project is extremely unsuccessful - the armor is weak. artillery of the main company is smeared all over the ship. finish building, yes, it is possible. but the innate cannot be corrected. exclusively as a floating battery.
          1. Victor Leningradets
            Victor Leningradets 24 November 2021 14: 26
            0
            Sorry, but under the conditions I indicated of the closest cooperation with the most technically advanced power, it was possible to rebuild these ships into:
            1. Battleships armed with 12x380-mm guns, with a speed of 25 knots and protection against Japanese armor-piercing shells 41 cm / 45 (16.1 ") 3rd Year Type.
            2. Battlecruisers armed with 9x380-mm guns with a speed of 30 knots and protection against British armor-piercing shells 15-inch (38.1 cm) Mark I.
            1. Andy
              Andy 24 November 2021 17: 46
              0
              the position of the guns cannot be changed. easier to design and build from scratch. Sevastopol 2,0 is not needed at all. this scheme was outdated at the beginning of the century, by the middle of the 20th century it was generally unusable
    2. hohol95
      hohol95 16 November 2021 20: 52
      +1
      Will you give money to buy cruisers in Italy?
      Then order the shells for the artillery from Italy?
      1. Victor Leningradets
        Victor Leningradets 17 November 2021 09: 46
        0
        There is a lot of money in the country (remember the solid gold pieces of 1922 and 1924), but the "bourgeois international" did not accept settlements with the USSR in gold or currency, only for payments for raw materials and bread. But Italy (the fascists - they will be kinder than the Anglo-French imperialists) - accepted in lira through fictitious purchases. So by 1932 they could have bought the "A" or "B" Condottieri brigade. The ships, of course, are rubbish, but for the Black Sea they will do.
      2. Victor Leningradets
        Victor Leningradets 17 November 2021 10: 50
        0
        About shells:
        Sparky Minisini - shells were purchased in Italy, then they were produced from us. Ours from the Br-2 are also suitable for six-inches, only sharpen the belts, the same with the sleeves.
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 17 November 2021 12: 01
          0
          How easy it is for you. Just a "dashing cavalry charge"!
          One and two and the "box is full" of cruisers!
          Smartly good , but alas, not for that time.
          1. Victor Leningradets
            Victor Leningradets 17 November 2021 13: 28
            0
            Who can argue, Alexey!
            What was - what was. But not the fact that it was impossible to act in the proper way.
            After the pogrom of the 90s (when the work for the fleet ended) I was engaged in the old thermal power plants, or rather, their reanimation. So there I saw enough (and learned) how from complete ruin, with minimal funding, people saved their heat supply sources. Look for such ingenuity!
            As my boss used to say then: "There is no desire - a thousand reasons, there is a desire - a thousand possibilities."
            So both "Nicholas I" and Italian cruisers are alternative, BUT REALITY!
            1. hohol95
              hohol95 17 November 2021 17: 13
              0
              Victor! And the number of specialists in the late 90s and early 30s was the same ???
              I strongly doubt it. And the toolbox was very different!
              As now - some have a chaser for working on brick or gas silicate, while others have a hammer for chasing plaster during the reconstruction of an old Soviet building.
              And with the help of "GiP (feces and twigs)" a good mechanism cannot be restored!
              1. Victor Leningradets
                Victor Leningradets 17 November 2021 18: 13
                0
                Oddly enough, there is a sufficient analogy here!
                In the 20s, there were still enough specialists from the former who could not escape abroad and did not die of typhus in Civil. But they were forced to look for food and, not being academicians, scattered among the shops and factories. And who at all - to relatives in the village.
                My grandfather got a job at the "Russian Diesel" (relatives helped), so half of the equipment was looted, and the second was mostly idle. Only a year from 1926 revival began.
                But at Putilovskoye - there was no devastation, but they were also mostly idle.
                Politics, like ours in the nineties, assumed an "inflow of investments", which turned out to be directed exclusively to the raw materials sector. As a result, we bought steam locomotives, cars and other hi-tech of that time, and paid with grain, raw materials, and timber, and due to the drop in agricultural productivity and transport problems, the indicators did not reach the level of 1913.
                Only after making sure of the dead end of the corps taken, the leadership of the USSR at the end of the 20s embarked on a forced industrialization.
                And the difference in the level of specialists can be compared in the projects for completing the Izmail-class battlecruisers (1921) and the preliminary design of the Mikhail Frunze battlecruiser (1931).
  19. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 16 November 2021 14: 40
    +2
    Lender's cannons were replaced with 100-mm B-2 mounts, in addition to which 4 semi-automatic 21-K 45-mm cannons were installed.

    Installations B-2 had a caliber of 102 mm. More precisely, 101,6 mm - 4 inches. In fact, it was a shortened version of the famous 102/60 NEO on a machine with large HVD.

    The "round" 100-mm caliber is already the next approach to the projectile: the B-24 and B-34 mounts.
    The repairs were carried out in Poti, without even having a dock of the required capacity.

    The dock was a composite floating dock for 10 tons. The problem was that the backlashes worked practically in all ports of the Caucasian coast - and the Black Sea Fleet was afraid of losing this dock in a raid. Therefore, the dock was not docked, and the dock repair of the Black Sea Fleet was carried out in its parts - "half-boats" - with hanging ends and with a trim.

    Separately, it should be said about the shelling of territories occupied by the enemy. This was also practiced in the Pacific Ocean, where the Americans supported the landing of their troops. Of course, what happened during the landings on Iwo Jima or Okinawa, when several battleships and a dozen cruisers hammered the island for days, is not comparable to the fact that one cruiser fired 30-40 shells across the areas.

    Here it is better to take as an example not 1945, but 1942 - the Solomon Islands. In those parts, both sides entertained themselves with such fire raids - either the Japanese along the airfield and the landing force, then the Americans along the Japanese landing zone.