Military Review

Why Russian aviation is losing planes so often: expert reasoning

100

On August 17, near the Kubinka airbase, aviation crash with a prototype of the Il-112V military transport aircraft. The aircraft engine caught fire, the pilots took measures to divert the board from residential buildings. The plane crashed, the crew did not survive.


In July, an An-26 plane crashed into a rock during landing approach. None of the 28 people on board survived.

On September 12, an L-410 plane crashed in the Irkutsk region. The plane did not reach the destination airport only about 4 km. Several people were killed, others were injured.

While extinguishing fires in Turkey, a Russian Be-200 amphibious aircraft, carrying a Russian crew, crashed into the mountain.

On September 22, an An-26 plane crashed in the Khabarovsk Territory, performing a technical flight. According to a special commission investigating the causes of the crash, the plane crashed into the mountain.

This is not a complete list of aviation accidents and accidents that happened in the domestic aviation this year. Somewhere the cause was the notorious human factor, somewhere technical problems, somewhere both, and weather and climatic conditions.

Unfortunately, in recent years, our country has not left the first lines of the world anti-rating in terms of the number of air crashes. On the one hand, this may be due to the growing number of flights, with the increased number of tests of new aircraft. But on the other hand, you need to understand that there is a specific reason behind any catastrophe and draw conclusions on the basis of this.

Experienced pilot (pilot) Vladimir Potapov talks about this problem on the SkyArtist channel. Why does Russian aviation lose planes so often?

100 comments
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  1. nickolai.maliugin
    nickolai.maliugin 10 November 2021 10: 16
    +1
    There is no place to put a like here. I fully approve of the position of the author.
  2. Grandfather
    Grandfather 10 November 2021 10: 19
    +26
    how the pilot swung .. frames, but where are they? find a turner, a milling cutter with a 6th grade ... the education system is destroyed at all levels, starting with vocational schools.
    1. NDR-791
      NDR-791 10 November 2021 10: 24
      +8
      Quote: Dead Day
      education system destroyed at all levels

      Yes, that pyramid lacks the most basic thing - the base. Starting with the exam and further down the list.
    2. Tiksi-3
      Tiksi-3 10 November 2021 10: 25
      +2
      Quote: Dead Day
      the education system has been destroyed at all levels, starting with vocational schools.

      no, not from vocational school, but from school, with her Unified State Exam angry
      1. Free wind
        Free wind 10 November 2021 11: 12
        +17
        And what does the USE have to do with it? And under the current system, whoever wants to learn learns. Who does not want that and from under the stick can not be forced. Look at our winners of international Olympiads in various subjects, the USE does not bother them. By the way, Pushkin in mathematics was an absolute layman, for which he was flogged, but.
        1. Tiksi-3
          Tiksi-3 10 November 2021 11: 27
          -7
          Quote: Free Wind
          And under the current system, who wants to study

          this is in the early 80s at school, three were put if only he came to school, so about now and then there are 2 big differences ... an exam is a test of knowledge, the exam is a guessing game
          Quote: Free Wind
          Take a look at our winners of international Olympiads in various subjects

          looked and what? in the USSR there were many times more of them, and there were many times more interschool Olympiads
          Quote: Free Wind
          By the way, Pushkin in mathematics was an absolute layman, for which he was flogged, but.

          what does Pushkin have to do with it ??? I don't like his work at all, there are a lot of ordinary people who wrote poetry and prose, but they do not pass them in schools and universities
          1. Free wind
            Free wind 10 November 2021 11: 49
            +1
            In a guessing game for a subject, only 50 points, for dunce usually no more than 30. To get over 50, an independent work is offered. Previously, frank almost Losers and Creepers went to enroll in institutes. Like agricultural or construction, there was an eternal shortage. Well, they came out with knowledge of the level of the parrot Kesha, how to increase the milk yield of rye after threshing the plow.
            1. Tiksi-3
              Tiksi-3 10 November 2021 11: 56
              +3
              Quote: Free Wind
              Previously, frank almost Losers and Creepers went to enroll in institutes.

              You are in Chechnya and Dagestan, tell us what ball all schoolchildren got two years ago, when they passed the exam wassat , under the USSR, this was not even close, but now they will either give an answer or they will write for you and you are a student, and even on the budget, so there is no need for fairy tales, I myself graduated from school in the USSR and entered the University and finished it when the USSR collapsed
          2. Ryazan87
            Ryazan87 10 November 2021 12: 07
            +8
            it was at the beginning of the 80s that they put three at school if only he came to school

            So what happened in the end? If a person does not want to study, you can stage anything, "draw" and dance around him as you please. There is zero sense.
            Unified State Exam - guessing

            Have you seen at least one modern version of the exam? Based on your statements, no.
            Here is the structure of the exam in Russian for 2019:
            The Unified State Exam in Russian consists of two parts, in which the student will find 27 assignments. The first part is 26 questions on theory and practice, and the second is an essay.
            Here are examples of assignments (based on the provided excerpt):
            "Define a sentence in which NOT with the highlighted word is written LITTLE. Expand the parentheses and write out this word."
            "In one of the words highlighted below, a mistake was made in the formation of the word form. Correct the mistake and spell the word correctly."
            "In one of the sentences below, the highlighted word is INCORRECT. Correct the lexical error by matching a paronym to the highlighted word. Write down the selected word."
            "Choose the demonstrative adverb yourself, which should be in place of the gap in the fifth sentence of the text. Write down this adverb."
            Yeah, "guessing" ...
            looked and what? there were many times more of them in the USSR

            Seriously? International Olympiads for schoolchildren?
            1. Tiksi-3
              Tiksi-3 10 November 2021 12: 34
              -5
              Quote: Ryazanets87
              Have you seen at least one modern version of the exam?

              belay there is no need to write heresy here, my children handed in and my nephews handed in and I have a direct relationship to school today
              1. Ryazan87
                Ryazan87 10 November 2021 13: 00
                0
                no need to write heresy here,

                The heresy, obviously, lies in the fact that you do not know the modern structure of the exam?
                Enlighten:
                https://fipi.ru/ege/demoversii-specifikacii-kodifikatory
                Rosobrnadzor, too, write down heretics?
                Since I'm not sure what to look at, please:
                1. Tiksi-3
                  Tiksi-3 10 November 2021 13: 13
                  -4
                  Quote: Ryazanets87
                  The heresy, obviously, lies in the fact that you do not know the modern structure of the exam?

                  heresy, this is what you can get the highest score without knowing the answers! and this was shown at least 2 times on national television, passing the exam for a university if you have money is not a problem at all, only a desire
                  1. Ryazan87
                    Ryazan87 10 November 2021 13: 22
                    +5
                    Yeah, so the USE is no longer a "guessing game"?
                    Is it a matter of corruption and nepotism that flourish in certain regions of the Russian Federation? Where do they spit on federal legislation?
                    After all, before there school exams were absolutely honest, medals were awarded only for success in education, and bribes for admission to a university, of course, were not paid. Only the exam ruined everything. BGGG.
                    1. Tiksi-3
                      Tiksi-3 10 November 2021 13: 31
                      -6
                      Quote: Ryazanets87
                      Yeah, so the USE is no longer a "guessing game"?

                      even some!!!!! 50 to 50 .... write in a personal, here it is impossible, off topic
                  2. mmaxx
                    mmaxx 11 November 2021 05: 47
                    0
                    Nah, you can't guess the highest score. Buy a collection of the exam. The stores have it.
                2. Gardener91
                  Gardener91 10 November 2021 21: 15
                  -3
                  Quote: Ryazanets87
                  The heresy, obviously, lies in the fact that you do not know the modern structure of the exam?

                  Well, yes, finishing school in a special class of Russian language and literature, 6 (!) Hours were allotted for an essay. And not 27, including tasks, but revealed all the knowledge gained. And yes, schoolchildren began to take exams from the fourth grade. It was IN Ukraine ((
              2. My doctor
                My doctor 11 November 2021 13: 08
                0
                Quote: Tiksi-3
                belay no need to write heresy here, my children handed in and my nephews handed in and I have a direct relationship to school today

                This is where the problem lies lol
          3. Aleksandre
            Aleksandre 10 November 2021 12: 09
            -4
            Quote: Tiksi-3
            what does Pushkin have to do with it ??? I don't like his work at all

            I, too, have always been amazed by the methodology of choosing an unremarkable poet for the post of "our all".
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 11 November 2021 11: 33
              +4
              Pushkin was the first. And a poet and a prose writer.
              He created the Russian literary language and discovered Russian literature.
              (Before him, the elite spoke and read French. And ordinary people were, for the most part, illiterate).

              Further, of course, poets and prose writers appeared stronger.
          4. Alexfly
            Alexfly 10 November 2021 14: 30
            +6
            I don’t know Dmitry, along which corridors you ran ... We had to provide knowledge for three years ... And if you needed a higher education, then you had to plow ...
            Those who were given triplets after the 8th left them.
          5. sleeve
            sleeve 11 November 2021 12: 42
            0
            it is felt that you yourself did not pass the exam. it seems that you also judge this tool by the artificially inflated "exam preparation system". in vain
        2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 10 November 2021 12: 01
          +4
          You are wrong, strongly.
          The exam is bad because it is a lottery. A unified exam can be introduced when there are unified teaching methods. And they are not. As a result, you can know by heart 2-3 different textbooks on the subject, but still fail the USE, because the questions will be from the fourth.
          My daughter showed me when she was preparing for biology. The USE question (from last year) "name 6 signs of something there" (I don't remember, not a biologist) She opens me one textbook - there are 4 signs of this "something" in the definition. Opens the second - there are 12 signs. And what to answer?
          This is not to mention the fact that different textbooks sometimes contradict each other ..
          So you can and will know the subject, but it won't save you from the minimum score.
          1. Free wind
            Free wind 10 November 2021 12: 50
            0
            In schools on the Unified State Exam, teachers conduct consultations starting from the new year, this is a must. over the past year, naturally.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 11 November 2021 06: 09
              +4
              Consultations do not help from the word "absolutely", since the teachers themselves have no idea what will please the next Unified State Exam. For example, our chemistry teachers (school of chemical-bio bias!) Gave inaccurate information (they claimed that there would be no certain type of assignment, but it was)
          2. Ryazan87
            Ryazan87 10 November 2021 13: 04
            +8
            apparently that is why unified federal educational standards are being introduced now. By the way)
            All I want to propose here on the site to post a fresh exam in history. And everyone who wants to honestly (without googling) decide in a set period of time. The results will be curious.
          3. Avior
            Avior 10 November 2021 14: 09
            +3
            These are mistakes in the organization of the exam. There should be an approved manual with all the necessary information required for delivery, or a bank of ready-made questions, and textbooks should differ not in the volume of material and its content, but in the teaching method. The volume of the studied material should be the same in all textbooks.
            1. Free wind
              Free wind 10 November 2021 17: 33
              +1
              Go to the bookstore and buy. There is no secret. In the past year alone
              1. Avior
                Avior 10 November 2021 17: 38
                +3
                There is no secret. In the past year alone

                The exam should be predictable before it starts, not after it ends.
                Otherwise, it is not an exam, but a profanation.
          4. sleeve
            sleeve 11 November 2021 12: 43
            +2
            you are right about the textbooks. however, there is a recommended set from the Ministry of Education. the rest is private-commercial initiatives.
        3. EvilLion
          EvilLion 11 November 2021 08: 03
          +1
          It was the same in the Union. The Soviet system ALREADY provided much more knowledge than an average person is capable of assimilating. And since, on average, a person is stupid, then in the 80s these "Soviet educated people" charged the water at the TV, and did nothing when their country was being thrown down.
        4. Letun
          Letun 11 November 2021 11: 20
          0
          Quote: Free Wind
          And under the current system, whoever wants to learn learns.

          Well, yes, if there is a desire and money for a repeater ...
          Quote: Free Wind
          By the way, Pushkin in mathematics was an absolute layman, for which he was flogged, but.

          And how many Pushkins have we had in history? And as for the present, I generally keep quiet.
      2. alstr
        alstr 11 November 2021 09: 18
        +1
        It should be noted that the Unified State Exam is taken at the end of vocational school (i.e. 10-11 grade of secondary school).
        And at the end of the 9th grade, they take the OGE. Although horseradish radish is not sweeter.
    3. your1970
      your1970 10 November 2021 11: 32
      +5
      Quote: Dead Day
      turner, milling cutter find with 6 digit ...

      And the young WANT stand at the bench or do they prefer to sit in the office?
      And if they are paid a high salary, then the products will cost like a cast-iron bridge ... And buyers will quickly find a cheap analogue.
      In the USSR, this relatively worked - because money was transferred from one pocket to another within a closed system ...
      And then - until a certain moment ...
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 10 November 2021 11: 50
        +4
        Quote: your1970
        In the USSR, it relatively worked

        A lot of things worked in the USSR. The video says everything right. You can force a professor and a scientist to become a merchant or a "shuttle". It is impossible to create a scientist or a professional specialist out of a merchant!
        1. your1970
          your1970 10 November 2021 12: 16
          +11
          Quote: ROSS 42
          Quote: your1970
          In the USSR, it relatively worked

          A lot of things worked in the USSR. The video says everything right. You can force a professor and a scientist to become a merchant or a "shuttle". It is impossible to create a scientist or a professional specialist out of a merchant!

          At one time in Moscow there was a cotton research institute. They developed equipment, harvesting technologies and the like ...
          Not in Tashkent or Ashgabat - in Moscow !!!!! Around the same fields with cotton, eprst ...

          There was "Kolkhida" and a factory design bureau ...
          WHY (!!!!) kolkhozes gladly changed 3 Colchis for 1 (!!!!!) ZIL ... And when the exchange did not work, they dragged them to the backyard of the mash-yard - out of sight ... and then into the ferrous metal ...

          There was a VAZ - on which the heater tap was flowing for 40 years.During its release, thousands of car models in the world have changed - but the heater tap of the 2101 variants confidently continued to flow

          This is to the question of scientists and professional specialists in the USSR.
          You yourself, if you think about it, remember the demonic cloud of "scientists and professionals" - who would work better as janitors. At least some benefit would be
          1. Ross xnumx
            Ross xnumx 10 November 2021 12: 21
            0
            Quote: your1970
            You yourself, if you think about it, remember the demonic cloud of "scientists and professionals" - who would work better as janitors. At least some benefit would be

            Of course it would. Maybe they created some kind of universal cart for removing garbage from a garbage disposal, or equipment for cleaning yards.
            Concerning:
            Quote: your1970
            There was a VAZ - on which the heater tap was flowing for 40 years.During its release, thousands of car models in the world have changed - but the heater tap of the 2101 variants confidently continued to flow

            The design of ball valves is not new and has been known for more than 100 years, but in early versions it did not provide a tight shutoff of the medium passage due to the difficulty of providing it with the metal surfaces of the ball plug and body seats. The emergence and introduction of such materials as fluoroplastic and synthetic rubbers for the manufacture of saddles in the valve industry led to the beginning of the widespread use of ball valves. New materials have made it possible to ensure tight closure and significantly reduce the effort required to operate the crane
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 10 November 2021 12: 35
              +1
              Quote: ROSS 42
              The design of ball valves is not new and has been known for over 100 years.

              There is not a ball valve, but an analogue of a plug-gland valve, in the common people a samovar one.
              They always flowed.
              But your opponent would not hurt to ask how many years these faucets were used on VAZ cars, before being clever about 40 years. hi
              1. Free wind
                Free wind 10 November 2021 13: 11
                +3
                Duc until the end of the release on the vase of the classics and put. On others, when they began to produce, they began to put ball balls.
              2. your1970
                your1970 10 November 2021 15: 10
                +5
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                But your opponent would not hurt to ask how many years these faucets were used on VAZ cars, before being clever about 40 years.

                Okay .... 20 years will suit you? 30? If you just don't like 40 ...
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                They always flowed.
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 10 November 2021 16: 09
                  -2
                  Quote: your1970
                  Okay .... 20 years will suit you? 30? If you just don't like 40 ...

                  Is it because I like it? belay
                  And the taps flowed on Fiat. The problem has long been solved, and even on classic models. There was no leak on my 2000 six. And even more so for the next generations.
                  Knowing you, I'm not surprised by the nitpicking about everything Soviet, although Western cars have enough problems of a different kind, regularly moving to new models. And not only on cars there are reasons for nagging, but as usual you are in the GDP trend, such as only galoshes, and that's it.
                  Are they getting paid well these days for this position?
                  1. your1970
                    your1970 10 November 2021 17: 49
                    +8
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    There was no leak on my 2000 six
                    - lucky ...
                    my father-in-law for 2106,2005, the tap flowed for 3000 km I changed it for him first to a ball and then to a disk

                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    Knowing you, I am not surprised by nagging about everything Soviet,

                    you absolutely me a little bit you attribute too much ..
                    I am always against Thoughtlessly irresponsible praise USSR. - what a lot of people suffer from in the VO.
                    When people tore their shirt on, shouting - "Why, there was no such thing in the USSR !!!", and you dig - and it turns out. And how it was !!!
                    by your example
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    And the taps flowed on Fiat. The problem has been solved long ago and even on classic models. There was no leak on my 2000 six.
                    -
                    Faucets on the "classics" flowed throughout the existence of the USSR - but it was decided (relatively !!) in damned capitalism

                    And such a bad thing !! - There were simply mountains in the USSR.
                    Now, over the years, it seems to you that everything was great and wonderful.
                    Just if you remember properly - and you, too, remember the negative and a lot ...

                    In 1990, I broke imported equipment (for foreign currency !!!!) in St. ... Who was punished for indifference? Schaz ...

                    Fuel trucks poured gasoline into the ravines at the end of the quarter - so that funds are not cut

                    To buy me Chinese (!!) sneakers - I had to hand over 100 kg of butter. Mom collected receipts for delivery for 8 months. They came 43 - I need 45 "- You don't want to take it !!!" districts through friends - at 3, then at 41, then at 39, then at my 40 months to buy sneakers ...

                    Near my village in the 1970s, 10 tons of saltpeter were buried in ravines - the warehouses had to be emptied. If a plane falls, the northern fox will come to the village, clean it up ...

                    "Dead Road" - first needed - died - immediately not needed. Moreover, they abandoned at such an accelerated pace - that even steam locomotives and carriages were not taken out. Was it necessary or not? automatically, someone is a pest ...

                    "Damn bureaucrats! They have filled everything in the Russian Federation !!!" - and no one remembers that the party apparatus + sovlast + Komsomol + trade unions - there was still that bureaucratic apparatus much larger than the current one, that today the only government agency that was not in the USSR is the tax one. Everything else was ...

                    Sausage trains

                    Snowmobiles "Buran" in Kushka - simply because there is a limit for each region and it must be set - even if, in principle, no one needs it there ... And 2000 km to the north - people beat each other's muzzles for them in queues ...

                    The queue for the car - my grandfather (a war invalid, a preferential queue !!) wanted Moskvich, Niva's father. We arrived at the orange 2102 ... "- You don't want to, don't take it !!!" and wait another 2 years ...

                    Sellers are generally a separate song ...

                    "Quiet peaceful" 1970s, a precinct with a cucumber in a holster and statistics - that annually up to 30 attacks (on average) in the USSR on police officers in order to take possession of weapons.

                    When it's from "... the trees are higher, the grass is greener ..." - that's okay, that's understandable, it's human.
                    Only here the trouble is that if there is a USSR v.2 and it will be at least a little like its people remember, the people will not like it very quickly


                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    Are they getting paid well these days for this position?
                    -just see my comments:
                    - I have never and nowhere praised the current
                    - I have never and anywhere found fault with the past - where it did not deserve it
                  2. Free wind
                    Free wind 10 November 2021 18: 08
                    +3
                    It was solved on the Izhevsk classic. Another example. In Latvia, a minibus RAF was manufactured and launched, an excellent machine for that time. And in Yerevan, they produced ERAZ, a delivery van that did not go without a horse. hi
                    1. Senior seaman
                      Senior seaman 10 November 2021 19: 32
                      +3
                      Quote: Free Wind
                      In Latvia, a minibus RAF was manufactured and launched, an excellent machine for that time. And in Yerevan, they produced ERAZ, a delivery van that did not go without a horse.

                      Despite the fact that ERAZ - 762 is nothing more than RAF -977 :)))
    4. ViacheslavS
      ViacheslavS 10 November 2021 11: 43
      +1
      turner, milling cutter find with 6 digit ...


      Offer normal money, turners and welders will quickly be found.

      the education system has been destroyed at all levels, starting with vocational schools.


      The system has become "market", whoever wants to study, acquires knowledge, who does not want to serve a number, is expelled.
      1. Pete mitchell
        Pete mitchell 10 November 2021 14: 19
        +3
        Quote: ViacheslavS
        turner, milling cutter find with 6 digit ...

        Offer normal money, turners and welders will quickly be found

        They will not be found quickly, there is not a sufficient number of highly qualified specialists. My brother builds installations from RB to Kirov, and for many years has been carrying his welder: once he ordered a local one and ... he rebuilt the installation at his own expense
        1. ViacheslavS
          ViacheslavS 10 November 2021 14: 23
          +2
          They will not be found quickly, there is not a sufficient number of highly qualified specialists.

          Well, look at the same question of price and market, offer a million rubles a month you will not have an end to qualified turners, offer 20 thousand rubles you will have to search long and hard with an unknown result.
          1. Pete mitchell
            Pete mitchell 10 November 2021 14: 29
            +2
            Quote: ViacheslavS
            Well, look this is a question of price and market ...

            High qualification it is also a matter of basic training and many years of experience, and now this is not easy. The Soviet system of vocational training yielded results, but the Russian Federation did not bother with preservation and development - unfortunately in my opinion. We'll see ...
          2. bairat
            bairat 10 November 2021 19: 32
            +2
            Technology has gone ahead. The program is written by a design engineer, in the workshop the CNC operator charges the cutters indicated in it, presses Start and rests. Highly qualified turners are no longer needed.
            1. EvilLion
              EvilLion 11 November 2021 08: 37
              +2
              Somewhere a computer completely kills the need for a mass of specialists, somewhere not. For example, a computer cannot control a crane, or fill a hole in a metal product.
            2. alstr
              alstr 11 November 2021 09: 24
              +1
              Since there are restrictions on the use of programs, highly qualified turners may be needed in the manufacture of unique products.
              In addition, a person can violate some safety precautions, but with a computer it is unlikely.

              PS There is an old story about a man at a tank factory who went on vacation for the first time after the war. And the production stopped. And during the parsing, they found out that from a defect in his hand he could easily tighten a couple of important nuts. And an ordinary person could not do this.
              This is of course a bike, but the analogy is clear.
        2. Free wind
          Free wind 10 November 2021 18: 48
          +4
          And technology is needed, even if you are a super specialist, nothing will come of it. the notorious product number 2, made of rubber from the 80s and 90s, in the cold just below 0., with inappropriate skill, stood apart from the owner. wassat
        3. The leader of the Redskins
          The leader of the Redskins 10 November 2021 21: 06
          +1
          Totally agree with you. Welder, back and forth. But a qualified machine operator and so that the hands grow from that place ...
          You can advertise with a gorgeous salary. and five or six people will come. But it is not a fact that among them there is at least one that fits the parameters.
          1. Pete mitchell
            Pete mitchell 10 November 2021 21: 23
            +4
            Quote: Leader of the Redskins
            Welder, back and forth. But a qualified machine operator and so that hands grow from that place ...
            Wake up laughing, my oldest brother is a high-class turner, and hand-to-hand and on CNC machines - for grabbing, was in great demand ... but the salary was always not childish in the wheelhouse ..
      2. EvilLion
        EvilLion 11 November 2021 08: 34
        +1
        The problem is that the money offered by itself will not solve the problem, firstly, there are few staff who are, and already have salaries. Secondly, there is no idea among young people that you can become a welder and receive millions. After all, this work is not the cleanest and easiest, and not prestigious. It is much better to target millions of somewhere in the IT thread.
    5. vfwfr
      vfwfr 11 November 2021 10: 04
      0
      Yes, at least with a 3-4th grade where to get it ... Although, now all the CNC machines, stop and press the buttons .. We hope for electronics and managers)
  3. Cottodraton
    Cottodraton 10 November 2021 10: 42
    +5
    I have not seen these "ratings", but I can say for sure that not much less often, or even the same planes fall in the preconditioned America and Europe ... another thing is that they do not make a disruptive news feed out of this. Often, in general, a message will flash in the creeping line and that's it. But with us - every dog ​​begins to savor the details, always turning it out so that "our technology is not like our people."
    Although, everything +/- is the same
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 11 November 2021 08: 38
      +1
      Generally, liners do not fall on the territory of the United States. But there, as it were, capitalism is much wilder than ours, and for some reason it is he who is being criticized. Although in the developed cap. countries, for some reason, there are no such problems, or they do not manifest themselves so strongly.
  4. Pavel57
    Pavel57 10 November 2021 10: 48
    +3
    Too emotional topic. The Il-112 stands alone, and the accident rate of production aircraft should be considered in the context of the raid.
    1. YOUR
      YOUR 10 November 2021 10: 59
      0
      anti-rating by the number of plane crashes. On the one hand, this may be due to the growing number of flights, with the increased number of tests of new aircraft.

      One plane out of a dozen IL-112 crashed this year, testing. The rest of the aircraft are of the age limit and there is no replacement for them
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 11 November 2021 08: 39
        +1
        The Su-35 is completely serviceable, definitely not the age limit.
        1. YOUR
          YOUR 11 November 2021 08: 43
          +1
          One tested the Il-112, one as you write a perfectly serviceable Su-35, where will we take the rest?
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 11 November 2021 08: 54
            0
            And I don’t know, I don’t belong to the commission of inquiry to establish for sure that the plane collapsed due to the age and fatigue of the structure. And you can drive a car of any age up the hill, and as the same loss of SSJ in 2009 in Indonesia showed, even a modern plane with a lot of warning systems.
            1. YOUR
              YOUR 11 November 2021 09: 32
              0
              So we will write down - it is our own fault.
  5. Bez 310
    Bez 310 10 November 2021 10: 49
    +4
    "Experienced pilot (pilot)" is right.
    Military aviation is closer to me, but there is nothing good there either.
    Here is the opinion of the commander of the PLA detachment about the graduates of the school, which he expressed in personal correspondence a couple of years ago: "I was assigned 3 leitekh. I flew with 2. You would have shot yourself with their training. They just took the conscripts-scoops. handed over for $ real .. ".
    But all this does not surprise me ...
    1. 2112vda
      2112vda 10 November 2021 11: 08
      +4
      Do you think factories are better? There, too, at least shoot yourself from the level of training of young specialists. It comes to the point that young chemists cannot correctly name the chemical elements in the periodic system.
      1. Bez 310
        Bez 310 10 November 2021 11: 09
        +1
        Quote: 2112vda
        Do you think factories are better?

        No, I don't think so, unfortunately ...
      2. your1970
        your1970 10 November 2021 11: 35
        +3
        Quote: 2112vda
        Do you think factories are better? There, too, at least shoot yourself from the level of training of young specialists. It comes to the point that young chemists cannot correctly name the chemical elements in the periodic system.

        Mmmm ......
        "And now forget everything that you were taught in your vocational school / techie and listen here !!!"
        A perfectly normal formula in the 1970s
    2. Pete mitchell
      Pete mitchell 10 November 2021 11: 17
      +5
      Quote: Bez 310
      You would have shot yourself with their preparation But all this does not surprise me ...

      I will allow myself to recall what was said just now and repeat
      Quote: Bez 310
      Why didn't you teach? There are many answers: from "apparently, the teachers are like this" to "such are the cadets today."
      Why did they not hesitate to "bring" science into our fragile minds, and now what - and in the higher educational institutions they train not co-pilots, but pilots who must make decisions and are ready for this
      1. Bez 310
        Bez 310 10 November 2021 11: 31
        -2
        Quote: Pete Mitchell
        , ... but now what ...

        But now it’s not so ...
        1. Pete mitchell
          Pete mitchell 10 November 2021 11: 54
          +2
          Quote: Bez 310
          But now it’s not so ...

          Quote: Pete Mitchell
          The army has always been a cross-section of the processes taking place in society.
          Is it time to adopt the training of Western civilians? But this is not an option for the military.
          1. Pete mitchell
            Pete mitchell 10 November 2021 14: 45
            +3
            Quote: Bez 310
            But now it’s not so ...

            It became interesting what was wrong with future pilots: I asked ...
            - a discussion ensued about the fact that exams at the school are almost paid for money - this is generally similar to the truth.
            - In general, no, only with intelligence and work. There, for deuces in outfits at once, until you retake. As a result, teachers take to the last. They even came to us for poor students wink

            Something like this ... times have changed
            1. Bez 310
              Bez 310 11 November 2021 08: 49
              +2
              Quote: Pete Mitchell
              Something like this ... times have changed

              Maybe...
              But I want not only times to change, but also the quality of the training of lieutenants, and this was told not by the lieutenants themselves, but by those to whom they came to fly.
              1. Pete mitchell
                Pete mitchell 11 November 2021 12: 29
                +3
                Of course, I understand that they are not the same as a quarter of a century ago, but there is no need to scold them for everything - with a shovel you need to rest from school lol
              2. Pete mitchell
                Pete mitchell 11 November 2021 23: 06
                +2
                Quote: Bez 310
                not only times have changed, but also the quality of the training of lieutenants, and this was told not by the lieutenants themselves, but by those to whom they came to fly.

                Passions seem to have subsided: why are those who are supposed to cook / export not indignant? Is there any feedback? In our times there was ...
                Now we are taking out boys on jet liners with less than 200 hours of flight time on anything - today I released one orelek after 22 days with instructors: like a siskin and very disciplined. We will collect “feedback” from the linear ones and correct if necessary. If we coped well, then our intervention will not be required.
                Is it really impossible to organize the process normally with such strong traditions?
    3. EvilLion
      EvilLion 11 November 2021 08: 44
      +1
      Excuse me, but now how do you feel about military aviation, besides the publication of amusing stories, how was it there in the Soviet years? Do you hold any position there, or did you leave it forever 20 years ago, and in fact have no idea what is there now? What I like about the pilots is their honesty in matters to which they have nothing to do, and if they don’t understand tanks, they will say that ask a tankman, and that in the next regiment, I honestly don’t know, I can’t answer.
      1. Bez 310
        Bez 310 11 November 2021 08: 50
        +1
        Quote: EvilLion
        if they don't understand tanks, they'll say so,

        Yes, I don't understand tanks.
        And sometimes I keep in touch with active pilots, although I myself have long been retired.
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 11 November 2021 08: 56
          +1
          That is, the source of your information is their negativity and irritation, despite the fact that they do not notice properly organized things, because "it should be so." I don't think this can be taken for any reliable information about what is happening in the Air Force.
          1. Bez 310
            Bez 310 11 November 2021 09: 22
            +1
            Quote: EvilLion
            That is, the source of your information is their negativity and irritation.

            Not always.
            A professional, and I consider myself a professional in some matters, can draw conclusions from those details that the average person simply will not notice. And if I see an imported aviation navigator in the photo of the Tu-22m3 or Su-34 cockpit, then I can draw certain conclusions not in favor of our navigators and aviation equipment.
            1. mmaxx
              mmaxx 12 November 2021 03: 15
              0
              Yes, here, about 5 years ago, some old chiefs from the American Navy decided to check the training of navigators of ships. Large. We came to the wheelhouse and took away the GPS. It turned out that no one already knew anything.
  6. Pete mitchell
    Pete mitchell 10 November 2021 11: 11
    +3
    Respect to the author without a doubt and would like to wait for the continuation. This part is definitely nostalgia, for those spindles when the Union was among the legislators of aviation, and the author is absolutely right - no action will be taken - it will be like in China. The flight safety system in China was created by Boeing and American guys: when selling planes they planted everything: training, instructions ... literally everything - the market is large, but the reputation must be maintained.
    1. Pete mitchell
      Pete mitchell 10 November 2021 15: 19
      +2
      By the way, here's an interesting read in the topic The pilot is "bad", the aviation system is "good": who is responsible for the "bad" pilot? (or how to stop the crisis of the aviation system) https://aviasafety.ru/38585/ это конечно только мнение, но имеет место быть
  7. svoroponov
    svoroponov 10 November 2021 11: 14
    +7
    I have a friend from school, when he moved to the states and now flies there on domestic lines. So there are catastrophes, accidents and other things there, too, in excess, it's just that it's not interesting to the press and it doesn't get into major publications and then reprinted around the world, except for some where there are big victims, a lot of witnesses and it is impossible to hide it, well, or by the editor's assignment should emphasize the heroism of the American pilot.
    And here every bunch is amplified by our and not our press to the scale of something like a worldwide catastrophe.
    Much of the story is true. But the main problem is the human factor: excessive self-confidence, weak internal discipline and from this it is not obligatory to follow the rules, instructions and regulations (laws of flight activity), and some kind of indifference in some cases. This all outweighs even insufficient training of pilots.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 11 November 2021 08: 48
      0
      When was the last time a high-fatality disaster occurred in the United States? The fact that there are a lot of their own versions of the "corn workers", including those in private ownership, and they will fight, is really of no interest to anyone. When at least an analogue of the L-410 with a couple of dozen people on board fell there for the last time?
      1. alstr
        alstr 11 November 2021 09: 28
        +1
        Not so long ago. 19.10.2021/XNUMX/XNUMX
        https://ria.ru/20211019/samolet-1755284488.html
  8. alexey alexeyev_4
    alexey alexeyev_4 10 November 2021 12: 10
    +6
    Everything is learned in comparison. Well, for example, hehe ... staff. In 2019, 123 aircraft were lost. 270 people died.
    1. Avior
      Avior 10 November 2021 14: 15
      +4
      you need to compare not absolute numbers, but the accident rate per 1000 flight hours and the number of flying aircraft. There will be more absolute ones, where more technology flies.
    2. SergKam
      SergKam 11 November 2021 03: 41
      -1
      Can I proof?

      Because a quick search says there were ONLY 2019 plane crashes in the world in 20. And 280 people died in the world.
      The numbers don't add up at all.

      https://rg.ru/2020/01/25/sostavlen-chernyj-spisok-aviakatastrof-2019-goda.html
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 11 November 2021 08: 49
        0
        And in the world they record the fall of single-seater cars when pollinating something somewhere in Africa? What did you think? Accidents not lower than objectified level?
        1. SergKam
          SergKam 11 November 2021 09: 16
          -1
          We seemed to be talking about America, but in civilized countries the MAC considers all disasters, even with single ones, even if he just flew and admired the surroundings.

          Here is an example from Russia (it is taken into account even without casualties).
          Will there be proof in America?

          https://mak-iac.org/rassledovaniya/
  9. tank64rus
    tank64rus 10 November 2021 16: 26
    +1
    There is no closed cycle from an idea to a specific aircraft, its production, operation and decommissioning on time. There is no production or personnel. Everything that was in the USSR was profiled and sold by "effective managers." So what we want, and if only aviation.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 11 November 2021 08: 51
      +3
      It was 2021, new "drying" routinely and trouble-free bombed that year barmaley, in VO they continued to fight in hysterics about something that was in the USSR, and that allegedly wasted.
  10. SergKam
    SergKam 11 November 2021 03: 35
    -1
    IL-112V. The aircraft engine caught fire, the pilots took measures to divert the board from residential buildings.

    Without challenging the professionalism and heroism of the pilots, why lie?
    The video clearly shows that he walked straight without changing course.
    The plane went strictly along the approach path at the Kubinka airfield.
    https://iz.ru/1209010/2021-08-18/istochnik-nazval-prichinu-ukhoda-il-112v-v-shtopor-pered-krusheniem
    1. mmaxx
      mmaxx 11 November 2021 06: 00
      +1
      It is always customary in our country to present pilots as heroes at the end. What kind of profession is so holy? Their memories are nothing but drunkenness and disgrace.
      Although, more often than not, it is precisely because of their "professionalism" that catastrophes occur. But: "until the very last moment I took the plane away from the domoff" ...
      1. Pete mitchell
        Pete mitchell 11 November 2021 21: 46
        +1
        Quote: mmaxx
        What kind of profession is so holy ?.

        Are you seriously going to discuss the 112th disaster? You can say a lot about the pilots, but do not touch the crew of the 112th - they flew away ... Leave the voiced by the journalists on their conscience, if you believe that they have it
        Quote: mmaxx
        Their memories are nothing but drunkenness and disgrace ...

        And you read the memoirs of Ilyushin, Menetsky ..., and do not forgive God
        1. mmaxx
          mmaxx 12 November 2021 03: 09
          0
          The pilots are not to blame for the Il-112 crash. I am not generalizing. But I'm not going to compose and support legends either.
          But life says that the majority are not Ilyushins and Menetsky at all. And the same people are like all of us.
          1. Pete mitchell
            Pete mitchell 12 November 2021 09: 25
            +1
            And there are so many legends about drunkenness and disgrace? But there are “marvelous” stories like being put straight from the cockpit into the jail; when kicked out with a "wolf ticket" in discipline. Everything is like people have ...
  11. anclevalico
    anclevalico 11 November 2021 07: 37
    0
    And what is there to discuss? If a general mess begins in the country, it penetrates into all areas. And hiding from them in a bunker for life is not a good idea.
  12. EvilLion
    EvilLion 11 November 2021 08: 01
    +1
    Potapov was wrong from the very moment the question was raised. The accident rate in Russian aviation is lower than in Soviet aviation simply because of those. progress.
  13. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 11 November 2021 12: 39
    0
    It's simple. Soviet standard sets have long run out. It is absolutely impossible to organize the production of normal spare parts, and even more so for new aircraft, with a modern production arrangement in Russia. Due to the fact that the socialist organization of high-tech industries in our country was ditched with joyful cries (it is unrealistic to revive it under capitalism, it held out for a long time in the United States, but still died), and our elite gang is organically unable to switch to the capitalist one. Easier to strangle yourself.
    All the "perspectives" that are enchanting in the heads of our government are absolutely impossible. To the extent that (despite the receding of the retirement age) Soviet engineers go into circulation and retire, our high-tech industry is irreversibly collapsing.
    Will be worse. A hundred times worse.
  14. Berg berg
    Berg berg 12 November 2021 15: 22
    0
    Russia loses exactly as much as in other countries, it is just wear and tear of foreign air junk.