New - old: from the crooked Hamilton pistol to the KRISS-VECTOR

64

Hamilton pistol with "curved breech". Left view. The lever above the trigger guard is a safety catch. Army Museum, Stockholm

What has been will be;
and what has been done will be done,
and there is nothing new under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 1: 9

History firearms weapons. Let's digress for a while from Luger-type pistols, and look at some of the original samples of pistols that appeared, were tested, but, as they say, did not come to the court, or, rather, did not have to go anywhere at all.

However ... is it worth saying that they disappeared, leaving no memory behind?



No, of course, in the history of firearms there are, or rather - there were, many interesting projects that differed from others either in their unusual technical solutions or extravagant appearance. And at first they were looked at as "one of", then - as a technical curiosity, and only many years later - they used their own technical solutions at a different level. A similar story, for example, took place with regard to the "crooked pistol" by Gustav Hamilton.


The same pistol, right side view. On the surface of the magazine, holes are visible to control the presence of cartridges through which the feeder spring is visible

And it so happened that when the creation of automatic pistols was in full swing in the world, a certain Swedish Count Gustav Hamilton applied for a patent for a very unusual pistol design on December 11, 1900. Actually, outwardly, he did not particularly stand out among others: a store with a batch loading in front of the trigger guard made him look like many models of the then automatic pistols.

The curved shutter made it unusual.

New - old: from the crooked Hamilton pistol to the KRISS-VECTOR
Bernard Müller's pistol. The magazine lid is open. It is clearly seen that the pistol had a separate trigger, but also a protrusion on the bolt, with which it was retracted. In this regard, Hamilton's pistol is simpler and more perfect. His trigger was hidden and was under the bolt. Rockyland Auction Photos

Again, even he was not the first on this path.

The first was the Swiss gunsmith Bernard Müller of Zurich, who in 1895 received a patent for a semi-automatic pistol most like a revolver ... without a drum. It had a caliber of 7,63 mm and a barrel length of 107 mm. It was charged from above, using a clip. Outwardly, both pistols of both Muller and Hamilton are similar, but apparently their design was still not so similar that Hamilton did not receive a patent.


Bernard Müller pistol assembled. Rockyland Auction Photos

Interestingly, the first Hamilton pistols were assembled at the Torssen and Son sewing machine factory, but they were made in few, no more than ten units.

But this amount was enough both to shoot them, and in 1903 to apply for a pistol competition for the army. I must say that his pistol had to compete with very perfect samples. For example, two Browning were presented at the competition - the M1900 and the M1903, the Colt M1900, which the same Browning created, as well as the Luger, Frommer, Mannlicher pistols and even the 1895 Nagant revolver.

The pistol submitted by Hamilton to the competition was slightly improved. Now it was loaded with a seven-round magazine, but otherwise it retained all its features.

The competition showed that Hamilton's pistol had no advantages over other pistols, and the Browning M1903 became the winner.

Nevertheless, from a technical point of view, this pistol was very, very interesting. So, its curved bolt along the arc sector by the recoil force did not go straight back, but along an arc inside the frame with the corresponding profile, and rested against the spring inside the handle.


Hamilton pistol diagram from a 1900 patent.

A feature of the very first sample of Hamilton's pistol were two clock springs. The trigger spring under the bolt and the cartridge feeder spring in the store. The breech spring in the handle was flat. The striker was in the bolt. The bolt was retracted back by two corrugated washers protruding in the slots of the frame, and at the same time the trigger was set on a combat platoon.

The protrusion, which in the photo is visible above one such washer, served for aiming. It had a cutout for the front sight on the barrel. That is, on the one hand, the pistol was simple and perfect enough for those years. In any case, it is much simpler than the same Luger or Colt. But ... he had a significant weight: 1,2 kg, length - 270 mm, but he shot a bullet weighing only 4,1 grams, the speed of which at a distance of 10 m from the muzzle was 228 m / s and was clearly compared to other competitors insufficient.

Why didn't the creator of the pistol increase its power by using a stronger cartridge and a larger caliber?

Did the design really not allow it?

And then, how was this pistol doing with accuracy? After all, the recoil from him went into the handle and, in theory, toss the barrel up in the same way as it was thrown by others, the pistol seems to be not supposed to?

However, alas, there are no answers to all these questions.

But many years later, patents of S. N. Pavlov and A. G. Semenov for revolvers with ... curved barrels appeared in our country.

Moreover, this is not at all what people usually think when they hear about "curved" weapons. This was created, in particular, during the Second World War, and even earlier, too, for shooting from tank on the subject of self-defense from infantry and "shooting from around the corner."


Diagram of a revolver by S. N. Pavlov and A. G. Semenov with a tapered magazine in the handle and a curved barrel

In this case, the barrel is curved in the longitudinal vertical plane and is located inside the revolver.

In a traditional curved weapon, the bullet is accelerated inside the straight barrel and only then hits the “curved nozzle”. Here the barrel itself is "crooked", and the bullet flies out of its straight part. The drum is made conical, while the axes of the drum chamber are inclined to the axis of rotation of the drum and are located in the lower part of the handle.

The authors published their article devoted to their development of such unconventional pistols in the magazine "Kalashnikov, weapons, ammunition, equipment" No. 6 for 2007.


Revolvers S. N. Pavlov and A. G. Semenov with cylindrical drums

And the main idea of ​​such a curved revolver is precisely the redistribution of recoil forces, the energy of which is directed not backward, but downward, into the handle. In addition, the barrel itself of such a revolver acquires a considerable length, although the dimensions of the Pavlov and Semenov revolver themselves are relatively small. That is, its trunk is both long and ... short - that is, everything is according to TRIZ.


Scheme of recoil action on the TDI KRISS Super V submachine gun

And finally, who today is unfamiliar with the TDI KRISS Super V submachine gun, created in 2006 and produced by the "Transformational Defense Industries" company, which today is considered to be one of the best modern submachine guns in the entire set of both its combat and service performance characteristics?

But the main thing is that, even though it shoots powerful .45 ACP cartridges (although there are modifications for other cartridges), the bullets of which have a very large stopping effect, its mass and dimensions are relatively small. But the most interesting thing is that when firing a burst from this submachine gun, the barrel toss is very insignificant, that is, the features of its design significantly increase the accuracy of automatic fire, which gunsmiths from all countries of the world have long been trying to achieve.

The author of this more than super-original design, using a semi-breech shutter with a shifted recoil momentum, was Renault Kirbra.
Today there are two main variants of this unusual submachine gun: the "combat" - Vector SMG, which is intended for use in law enforcement agencies and for the military - with a short barrel only 140 mm long, and the civilian Vector CRB / SO, the barrel of which (according to the law USA on civilian weapons) is made with a length of 406 mm. For greater aesthetics, a muffler simulator is worn over it.

The second difference from military and police models is the impossibility of firing in automatic mode. That is, all civilian models are semiautomatic devices. Although for those states where this is allowed by law, a civilian version of the Vector SBR / SO is also produced, which has a short barrel.

And it is natural that today the Vector submachine guns are produced for different tastes, at any price, in a wide variety of configurations and even ... in different colors.

Used ammunition line: .22 LR, .357 SIG, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, 9x19mm Parabellum, 9x21mm, 10mm Auto.


Here, for example, is the KRISS-VECTOR-GEN-II-SMG model with a very short barrel and a simple folding stock. Photo by KRISS USA

TTX combat model "Vector": Vector SMG

Caliber: 9 × 19 mm Parabellum
Magazine capacity: 17 (uses a Glock-21 pistol magazine)
Barrel length: 140 mm
Total folded length: 469,9 mm
Unfolded total length: 708,6 mm
Weight: 3,4 kg



This model has a more complex stock, and the color is the most sandy ... Photo by KRISS USA


Well, this KVG2 SMG FX is clearly intended for people with peculiar inclinations ... although there is also a bright red version! Photo by KRISS USA


No one will say that this submachine gun is made of ... paper, but nevertheless it is so. Photo Paper-models.ru - free paper models and modeling magazines of any complexity ...

The KRISS Vector 22 CRB is a dedicated civilian semi-automatic sporting rifle that fires rimfire cartridges and combines the iconic aesthetics and ergonomics of the KRISS Vector carbine with a modern modular design.

The Vector 22 is a one-of-a-kind firearm designed for use with .22LR cartridges for competition, training and small game hunting. The bolt of these rifles moves in a straight line. With such a small caliber, the complication of the kinematic scheme of the shutter was clearly useless.


KRISS Vector 22 CRB in Alpine paint. Photo by KRISS USA

TTX models: Vector 22 CRB

Caliber: 22LR
Store capacity: 10/30
Barrel length: 410 mm
Total folded length: 867,3 mm
Total length unfolded: 958,8mm
Weight: 3,3 kg.



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64 comments
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  1. +3
    11 November 2021 18: 10
    Gustav Hamilton was inspired by the boomerang shape?
  2. +1
    11 November 2021 18: 13
    Hmmm. Monsieur knows a lot about perversions)
  3. +5
    11 November 2021 18: 14
    clearly intended for people with peculiar inclinations
    Blue is inert, that is, a layout for training. So it cannot be confused with combat.
    1. +10
      11 November 2021 18: 30
      Quote: Bolt Cutter
      that is, a mock-up for training.

      Well, this is a joke, of course, a kind of "gift" to all our lovers in the West to see crowds of oiled and blue on almost every corner. We must also please them at least a little ...
      1. +7
        11 November 2021 18: 34
        in the West, crowds of oiled and blue
        In English, their color is pink (pink), not blue (this color-blue- denotes depression, blues).
        1. +6
          11 November 2021 18: 35
          Quote: Bolt Cutter
          In English, their color is pink (pink), not blue (this color-blue- denotes depression, blues).

          I'll keep it on mind!
        2. +4
          11 November 2021 20: 04
          In English, their color is pink (pink), not blue (this color-blue- denotes depression, blues).

          Uh-huh, and they are also called "gay" (funny), but we have "gay". Alexey, welcome! drinks
          1. +6
            11 November 2021 20: 09
            "gay" (funny)
            The word "gay" (English version is not allowed by the censorship of the site belay ) has ceased to be synonymous with "funny" back in the 70s. Good evening, Nikolai!
            1. +6
              11 November 2021 20: 13
              The word "gay" (the English version is not allowed by the censorship of the site) has ceased to be synonymous with "funny" back in the 70s.

              Well, we also have the word "blue", if they talk about "man", also for thirty years has an unambiguous assessment ... bully Thanks, enlightened! drinks
      2. +2
        12 November 2021 04: 43
        Vyacheslav, you have heaped a change in the recoil vector and an automatic on the free shutter with friction deceleration. The reason for choosing such a scheme is in the compactness and lightness of the shutter and probably in the simplicity of the design (however, there is no talk of manufacturability laughing ). So neither revolvers (by the way, I didn’t know about them) nor CRISS have anything to do with the Hamilton pistol scheme. But the ancient MAS38


        And more modern "YatiMatic" Jatimatic



        Well, why did you get the idea that KRISS "is considered to be one of the best modern submachine guns"? It would be accepted, this PP would be popular, but this is not even close.
        1. +2
          12 November 2021 17: 53
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          But the ancient MAS38

          I wrote about these submachine guns in great detail. I had a series of articles about submachine guns - and so there. "Parabellum" is also considered to be one of the best ... but it was not accepted in most of the armies of the world and even Europe. So all of these assessments are highly subjective, right?
          1. 0
            12 November 2021 18: 34
            Quote: kalibr
            I wrote about these submachine guns in great detail. I had a series of articles about submachine guns - and so there
            Possibly, but they were unlikely to have been linked to this pistol.

            Quote: kalibr
            "Parabellum" is also considered to be one of the best ... but it was not accepted in most of the armies of the world and even Europe. So all of these assessments are highly subjective, right?

            It is enough that he was accepted in the best army in Europe. Well, subjectivity is beating with numbers, and the numbers are not in favor of KRISS.
            1. 0
              12 November 2021 20: 32
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              Well, subjectivity beats with numbers, and the numbers are not very in favor of KRISS.

              Well, bring them, it will be very interesting. For that and comments!
              1. 0
                13 November 2021 16: 49
                Quote: kalibr
                Well, bring them, it will be very interesting. For that and comments!


                Regarding CRISS, there is only one specific figure, and even then it is dubious - this is the country where it was adopted for service: Thailand. So the CRIS is completely draining Parabellum, even in terms of the number of operating countries.

                However, subsequent experience showed that the resulting sample, at a significantly higher cost, does not provide any noticeable practical superiority over its predecessors, and this sample never received mass distribution.
                1. -2
                  13 November 2021 18: 30
                  Quote: Vladimir_2U
                  So the CRIS is completely draining Parabellum, even in terms of the number of operating countries.

                  The Saint-Etienne revolver of 1892 was also in service in addition to France only in Romania, but it is considered one of the best pre-war (1914) revolvers. So "one is old" does not prove anything.
                  1. 0
                    13 November 2021 18: 43
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Revolver Saint-Etienne of 1892, except for France, was in service only in Romania, but it is considered one of the best pre-war (1914) revolvers.

                    Well, what is the use of a revolver, it is not known from what, except from your words, "considered one of the best" to a submachine gun which is not considered the best? Already for cost - efficiency for sure. Well, even with this comparison, the number of samples released is incomparable. Even if you count the carbines and PP combined.
                    1. +1
                      13 November 2021 21: 22
                      I turn what I want! Your hand is the master!
                      1. 0
                        15 November 2021 03: 18
                        Quote: kalibr
                        I turn what I want! Your hand is the master!

                        On whom I want, but that and grumble! laughing
                        Thank you for the article! hi
                      2. +1
                        15 November 2021 06: 44
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        On whom I want, but that and grumble!

                        I totally agree with you! But do I shut your mouth? No, on the contrary, I always try to answer in the most comprehensive way. Good luck!
    2. +6
      11 November 2021 19: 14
      Good evening, Alex. hi
      Then how to regard a red typewriter?
      Although there is also a bright red version! Photo by KRISS USA

      For clients with an unstable psyche? wink laughing
      1. +3
        11 November 2021 19: 18
        Good evening. Reds - probably for a special kind of aesthetes wassat Although there seem to be red training dummies. (Standard-blue)
        https://www.asp-usa.com/collections/handguns
        1. +5
          11 November 2021 19: 23
          Found on the link, all the dummies are made of polymer.

          But the blue KVG2 SMG FX somehow does not look like a dummy at all.
          1. +5
            11 November 2021 19: 33
            The dummies are usually red, blue, orange and yellow.
            https://www.policemag.com/372943/how-to-mark-your-training-weapons
            That, in other words, does not exclude the coloring of real combat guns in these colors. In short, HZ, but it's not about the preferences of beer lovers wassat
            1. +5
              11 November 2021 19: 42
              Yes, beer here certainly rests on the sidelines, although the American States is a very peculiar country. smile
              1. +4
                11 November 2021 19: 49
                The American States are a very peculiar country.
                Everyone goes crazy in their own way Yes
                https://pinkgun.com/?v=7516fd43adaa
                1. +5
                  11 November 2021 19: 58
                  Yes, up to clinical cases. wassat
                  1. +5
                    11 November 2021 20: 05
                    before clinical cases.


                    They are still far from the Mexicans Yes
                    1. +5
                      11 November 2021 20: 10
                      They are still far from the Mexicans

                      This is how to look. laughing

      2. +6
        11 November 2021 19: 57
        Good evening. Live and learn. I have not even heard of these "Hamiltons"! Not what to imagine ...
      3. +3
        11 November 2021 20: 39
        Quote: Sea Cat
        For clients with an unstable psyche?

        Ha! Ask psychologists!
  4. +5
    11 November 2021 18: 16
    Vyacheslav Olegovich surprised again! Thanks for the hard work hi
    1. +8
      11 November 2021 18: 28
      Quote: Alien From
      surprised again!

      I know, while working on materials for VO, I am often surprised no less than yours. Since 2014, I've learned so much that ... better than any university. And all the time you find something new, unknown, and interesting. Just write!
      1. +5
        11 November 2021 18: 40
        Write! I always study your materials with pleasure. I think many colleagues agree with me.
      2. +7
        11 November 2021 19: 45
        Just write!


        Exactly! That's what I'm talking about. Thank you, Vyacheslav! Without you here, in our wilderness, it is completely depressing.

        So write! smile drinks
        1. +5
          11 November 2021 20: 31
          Quote: Sea Cat
          So write!

          I am writing that I have just started a new cycle about one very important historical event. Finally, I figured out who was a relative to whom and because of what and why there was a quarrel ...
  5. +2
    11 November 2021 18: 50
    Hamilton ... Hamilton ... There is nothing to frighten with your Hamilton! We have our own Hamilton!
    1. +6
      11 November 2021 19: 26
      ... we have our own Hamilton!


      And they also have their own Hamilton in stock. wink

      1. +3
        11 November 2021 20: 11
        And they also have their own Hamilton in stock.

        You know, Uncle Kostya, I read about the Pre-Raphaelites the other day. Interesting topic. 19th century, and they took "painting before Raphael" as their model. Those. Early Renaissance. drinks
        For example, Awakened Shame, W. H. Hunt, 1853, Tate Gallery, London.
        The client touches the available odalisk for the fifth point, and she suddenly remembered about religion and morality! request Apparently, nothing happened ... what
        1. +2
          11 November 2021 20: 13
          The client touches the available odalisk for the fifth point, and she suddenly remembered about religion and morality!

          Means badly touching, or paid little. A woman must be respected! laughing
          1. +4
            11 November 2021 20: 17
            Means badly touching, or paid little. A woman must be respected!

            No, voluptuous Cat, this fallen woman in the picture suddenly began to respect herself! lol Like, "with other previous ones - a full package of services is inexpensive, and you, my new friend - break off, go to the forest!" stop Can you imagine what a powerful frustration a man has? belay and he, for sure, has already paid denyuzhka ... crying
            1. +4
              11 November 2021 20: 36
              It's hard for me to judge the intricacies of selling love, because I've never paid money for it. Somehow I got everything I needed. request smile

              1. +4
                11 November 2021 21: 39
                Quote: Sea Cat
                It's hard for me to judge the intricacies of selling love, because I've never paid money for it. Somehow I got everything I needed.

                !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! +++++++++++++++++++++ +++++
        2. +4
          11 November 2021 20: 36
          But what a cozy cat below on the left ?!
      2. +4
        11 November 2021 20: 58
        “How she waited, how she called,
        How she drank whiskey!
        Lady Hamilton, Lady Hamilton,
        You were in my life ”(c).
        1. +3
          11 November 2021 21: 11
          What can you say, they are always there ... and Trafalgar, who separated them.
    2. +4
      11 November 2021 20: 37
      There were a lot of them - designs of pistols for one hand.
  6. +4
    11 November 2021 19: 02
    And finally, who is not familiar with the TDI KRISS Super V submachine gun today?

    ... wrinkle crying
    1. +5
      11 November 2021 19: 14
      Yes, it was the author who "dramatized the situation", I think you are familiar with such a literary device. In reality, the resulting wunderwaffe, at a significantly higher cost, does not provide any noticeable practical superiority over "conventional weapons" and did not receive mass distribution either from the military or on the civilian market.
    2. +3
      11 November 2021 19: 38
      Quote: Senior Sailor
      And finally, who is not familiar with the TDI KRISS Super V submachine gun today?

  7. +5
    11 November 2021 19: 06
    The author of this more than super-original design, using a semi-breech shutter with a shifted recoil momentum, was Renault Kirbra.

    Understood nothing. It should have been written "with a semi-free shutter and redirecting the rollback pulse of the moving parts down", since the TDI Kriss Super V is made exactly according to this scheme and not according to the scheme with the accumulation of the recoil pulse.
    1. +4
      11 November 2021 20: 35
      Someone did not press the button "fix the corrected" ... it happens ...
      1. +4
        11 November 2021 20: 53
        The fact of the matter is that I clicked and checked using the "Preview" button.
        1. +3
          11 November 2021 21: 38
          Quote: Undecim
          The fact of the matter is that I clicked and checked using the "Preview" button.

          Here I am about the same. It happens! I pressed it, looked it up, and ... then you yourself wonder - where is the fix? It was already a couple of times for sure!
  8. 0
    11 November 2021 19: 26
    according to TRIZ


    You can successfully combine one curiosity with another - I mean a rocket gun and rocket bullets.
    A jet bullet can be accelerated in a spirally rolled (and therefore very long) barrel, and only the final section will be straight and rifled and already without thrust, which creates errors. Even for hunters, it will be quite convenient - the accelerating spiral barrel can be held on the suspension to the shoulder or torso, and not in the hands.
  9. +1
    12 November 2021 02: 27
    what Interesting design. However, for me personally, when firing with the pistol in one hand, visually along the line of sight from the rear sight to the front sight, the curvature from the bolt bend line to the rear sight and behind it would create the effect of the barrel raised up, and the recoil when fired into the grip at the bottom would give load on the shoulder muscles and joint. It is easier to hold with a two-handed grip.
  10. 0
    12 November 2021 14: 00
    "Today there are two main variants of this unusual submachine gun: the" combat "- Vector SMG, which is intended for use in law enforcement agencies and for the military - with a short barrel only 140 mm long, and the civilian Vector CRB / SO, the barrel of which (according to US Civilian Weapons Act) is 406 mm long.
    It seems to me that the author confused something, why the civilian barrel is 406 mm longer than the military model, maybe the author meant 46 mm - a short barrel?
    1. +3
      12 November 2021 17: 56
      Quote: restless
      It seems to me that the author confused something, why the civilian barrel is 406 mm longer than the military model, maybe the author meant 46 mm - a short barrel?

      It seems. Military - short, civilian - long! This is the law of the United States!
  11. +1
    12 November 2021 18: 33
    Good evening. Yesterday I did not visit the site, but today I accidentally climbed in.
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, if I understood correctly: the software "Vektor" is based on the ideas of Hamilton. Was he ahead of his time, then?
    1. +1
      12 November 2021 20: 33
      Quote: Astra wild2
      PP "Vektor" is based on the ideas of Hamilton.

      Ideas are in the air! But in principle, yes!
    2. 0
      12 November 2021 20: 35
      Quote: Astra wild2
      Good evening. Yesterday I did not visit the site, but today I accidentally climbed in.
      Vyacheslav Olegovich, if I understood correctly: the software "Vektor" is based on the ideas of Hamilton. Was he ahead of his time, then?

      I wrote an article, or rather a cycle, which I think will interest you. Don't forget BO. Already three articles on moderation ...
      1. +1
        13 November 2021 09: 09
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, I have a phone number, I often began to remove something: History, Armament.
        Even today there is Armament, but there is no History. I'll start to cheat so
        find
  12. 0
    9 January 2022 19: 31
    Khaidurov talked about Yuriev's experienced sports free (match) pistol, in which the chamber was in the grip, and the barrel bent smoothly, and the last third was completely straight. The drummer's cocking device was at the bottom of the handle. But Yuriev died in an accident while on vacation in the mountains of Georgia, and the pistol remained in one copy. Whether he survived "Luzhkov's write-offs" in the shooting galleries of Moscow - I don't know.