Military Review

The first company of the BMPT "Terminator" will reinforce the tank regiment of the 90th Guards Tank Division of the Central Military District

207

The Ministry of Defense has decided to adopt the first batch of support combat vehicles tanks (BMPT) Terminator. The decision was made based on the results of the tests that took place this year.


A BMPT company in the amount of 9 vehicles will strengthen one of the tank regiments of the 90th Guards Tank Division of the Central Military District, stationed in the Urals. Putting into service will take place until December 1 of this year.

All nine BMPTs entered the division at the end of November last year for trial operation and testing together with tank units. The testing task was to determine the place of the tank support vehicle in battle formations and the tasks that it can perform in combat conditions. The tests were carried out during this year, they were recognized as successful.

However, the final decision on BMPT has not yet been made. Next year, on the basis of the division, BMPT tests will continue. According to the commander of the Central Military District, Colonel-General Alexander Lapin, in 2022, the Terminator BMPT battalion will begin testing. Tests will begin in June, which means that before that time the division will receive another batch of tank support combat vehicles.

According to Lapin's statement, larger-scale tests of the BMPT will be carried out both as part of tank units and motorized rifle units.

BMPT "Terminator" is made on the chassis of the T-72. The vehicle is armed with two 30mm 2A42 automatic cannons, a 7,62mm PKT machine gun, and four launch containers for the 9M120 guided missiles (Attack complex).
207 comments
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  1. Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 09: 33
    -5
    Oh really? belay
    They dragged on for a long time, then they could not decide on the concept of application, then there were questions with weapons.
    Now I would also like to decide on the Armata family.
    1. SKVichyakow
      SKVichyakow 9 November 2021 09: 51
      +11
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      Oh really? belay
      They dragged on for a long time, then they could not decide on the concept of application, then there were questions with weapons.
      Now I would also like to decide on the Armata family.

      They have not yet decided on anything, neither with the quantity, nor with the use, nor in any units, I even think about its armament.
      1. YOUR
        YOUR 9 November 2021 09: 58
        -12
        The only advantage of BMPT over BMP-3, BMP-4 is its reservation. For all other parameters, even one BMP wins. Plus the landing.
      2. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 10 November 2021 12: 12
        +1
        Quote: SKVichyakow
        They have not yet decided on anything, neither with the quantity, nor with the use, nor in any units, I even think about its armament.

        The concept was: to cover the tank from tank-hazardous threats. They mainly started talking about it after the use of tanks in the city, where the danger could be from both basements and upper floors of buildings. Based on this, we set the task: the equipment should be well protected, very big-eyed and with the ability to work on several objects at once. Of all the BMPT objects presented, the military liked the Chelyabinsk "object 781" more.
        Ordered (but not them). And those made the car to the best of their understanding. As they said, it turned out to be a large sniper rifle. It is, perhaps, good for covering some objects, checkpoints, but not for covering tanks. Hence the delay in adopting it into service.
  2. Flooding
    Flooding 9 November 2021 09: 36
    0
    BMPT "Terminator" is made on the chassis of the T-72. The vehicle is armed with two 30mm 2A42 automatic cannons, a 7,62mm PKT machine gun, and four launch containers for the 9M120 guided missiles (Attack complex).

    IMHO
    the idea of ​​a tank support vehicle is relevant
    but its implementation will undergo a change in the near future
    this has been discussed for a long time and is already becoming obvious and inevitable
    one barrel of a larger caliber instead of two 30mm
    and hopefully supplement AG
    1. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 9 November 2021 09: 41
      +8
      Quote: Flood
      one barrel of a larger caliber
      and hopefully supplement AG

      Well, yes, a 57 mm barrel and an AG of the "Balkan" type, plus the function of combating "loitering ammunition" ...
      1. Flooding
        Flooding 9 November 2021 09: 43
        +1
        Quote: Mountain Shooter
        Well yes, 57mm barrel

        45mm was mentioned today for a reason on VO wink
        this is a sign from above
        1. Mountain shooter
          Mountain shooter 9 November 2021 09: 44
          +5
          Quote: Flood
          45mm was mentioned today for a reason on VO

          So there are no such barrels yet, but 57 already exist. laughing
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 9 November 2021 09: 51
            +2
            Quote: Mountain Shooter
            So there are no such barrels yet, but 57 already exist

            I agree, if I was in a hurry
            and 45mm as a sample has already been demonstrated


        2. Hagen
          Hagen 9 November 2021 12: 26
          +1
          Quote: Flood
          45mm was mentioned today for a reason on VO

          I think a 45mm assault rifle can only be used to replace the 2A42 / 2A72 when upgrading the existing fleet of BMP / BTR. (with armored personnel carriers, difficulties may arise in the installation site of the combat module). The cartridge 30x165 is clearly outdated ...
    2. Popandos
      Popandos 9 November 2021 09: 45
      +2
      its implementation will undergo a change in the near future
      it is already becoming obvious

      It's almost certain
      one barrel of a larger caliber

      but about one barrel, I doubt, now the tank needs to be protected from attacks from above, and here the rate of fire is important. The increase in caliber will most likely be, it is not for nothing that they talked about the 45mm caliber.
      1. Flooding
        Flooding 9 November 2021 09: 54
        +1
        Quote: Popandos
        but about one barrel, I doubt, now the tank needs to be protected from an attack from above, but here the rate of fire is important

        the need to cover the tank from air attacks did not arise today
        but to assign air defense tasks to BMPT is frank voluntarizi
        1. ProkletyiPirat
          ProkletyiPirat 9 November 2021 12: 11
          +2
          Quote: Flood
          to assign air defense tasks to BMPT - frank voluntarizi

          you just do not understand what exactly is meant by "anti-aircraft functions", here we are talking about shooting down "infantry-portable guided weapons with VVPZ (VTOL)" for example multicopters armed with PTABs and NARs or conventional mortar mines, or RPG-7 shots or hand grenades. That is, we are talking about those areas that are not overlapped by either Tunguska or Shilka or derivations.

          But my personal opinion is that it is better to arm the MBT with an additional one paired with the main weapon and use this additional weapon consistently, depending on the current target.
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 9 November 2021 14: 17
            +3
            Quote: ProkletyiPirat
            you just do not understand what exactly is meant by "anti-aircraft functions"

            you just write in detail what new meaning you put into the old terminology

            Quote: ProkletyiPirat
            here we are talking about shooting down "infantry-portable guided weapons with VVPZ (VTOL)" for example multicopters armed with PTABs and NARs or conventional mortar mines, or RPG-7 shots or hand grenades

            how will BMPT detect these threats?
            stop fantasizing
      2. Hagen
        Hagen 9 November 2021 12: 33
        +2
        Quote: Popandos
        the tank needs to be protected from an attack from above, and here the rate of fire is important.

        And what kind of attack from above do you plan to repel with the 45-koy? Its height reach will be no more than 3500 meters. Predators already in 2010 could comfortably work from 3000-4000 meters. Today, the quality of means of observation, guidance and target tracking has stepped forward. Perhaps today and with 6000 UAVs can attack a ground object with sufficient accuracy. I think the 45 will become obsolete even before it is put into service as a combat module on the BMPT, especially for air defense missions.
        1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
          Sergey Aleksandrovich 9 November 2021 21: 14
          0
          Each echelon has its own type of air defense.
    3. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 10: 01
      +1
      Quote: Flood
      one barrel of a larger caliber instead of two 30mm

      But what about the density of fire? After all, a larger caliber cannot provide the same density of fire as 2 * 30mm.
      But the vehicle is designed to be used against tank-hazardous infantry, which is why Shilka is still used for this purpose.
      1. Flooding
        Flooding 9 November 2021 10: 06
        -1
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        But what about the density of fire? After all, a larger caliber cannot provide the same density of fire as 2 * 30mm.

        But what about the limitation of the bookmaker?
        of course, a larger caliber will not give that rate of fire
        but she is not needed
        shooting from the AP is advisable in short bursts
        if we are not talking about firing from a shipborne gun at KR or air defense at air targets
        you can't do without density there
        but not in our case
        and with an increased high-explosive action of the projectile, the effect can be predicted
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 11: 20
          0
          Quote: Flood
          and with an increased high-explosive action of the projectile, the effect can be predicted

          You will not replace the density of fire with a high-explosive action. The tank has an even higher high-explosive effect of the projectile, but for some reason Shilka rules in the mountains and cities.
          BMPT just so that the density of fire does not give the tank-hazardous infantry head to raise.
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 9 November 2021 11: 28
            0
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            The tank has an even higher high-explosive effect of the projectile, but for some reason Shilka rules in the mountains and cities.

            so do you suggest 4x23?
            but why then invent BMPT if Shilka "rules"?
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            You will not replace the density of fire with a high-explosive action

            replace? no, not about that
            the density of fire in one ap is quite decent
            but supplementing with a higher high-explosive impact does not really hurt

            haven't you read that BMPT cannot fire simultaneously from two barrels?

            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 12: 07
              -2
              Quote: Flood
              but why then invent BMPT if Shilka "rules"?

              Shilka was originally an air defense tank. The idea is to complement Shilka's effectiveness in the city with other weapons and thick armor. I'm surprised that I have to explain basic things.
              Quote: Flood
              haven't you read that BMPT cannot fire simultaneously from two barrels?

              Didn't you know that Gatling guns cannot fire from all barrels at once, but only in turn? wink
              I think the hint is clear?
              1. Flooding
                Flooding 9 November 2021 14: 15
                -1
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Didn't you know that Gatling guns cannot fire from all barrels at once, but only in turn?

                what does the Gatling system have to do with it?
                if the BMPT has two guns with separate power supply
                when the Gatling system is one weapon
                and the density of fire when firing from two identical guns can be increased only when they are used simultaneously
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                I think the hint is clear?

                to write off on old age?
                don’t worry, there are enough reasonable commentators of a more mature age on the forum

                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Shilka was originally an air defense tank. The idea is to complement Shilka's effectiveness in the city with other weapons and thick armor.


                Shilka has bulletproof / splinterproof armor up to 15 mm
                "tank" with "thick armor"

                air defense missions are in no way tied to "efficiency in the city"

                rather, on the contrary, in urban conditions, air defense tasks are more difficult to accomplish
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 14: 49
                  -1
                  Quote: Flood
                  what does the Gatling system have to do with it?
                  if the BMPT has two guns with separate power supply

                  They shoot in a checkerboard pattern, in turn. You can even see it in your video.
                  Quote: Flood
                  Shilka armor bulletproof / splinterproof up to 15 mm
                  "tank" with "thick armor"

                  BMPT with thicker armor. And with an expanded arsenal.
                  Quote: Flood
                  rather, on the contrary, in urban conditions, air defense tasks are more difficult to accomplish

                  Not only BMPTs have thicker armor! wassat I mean that Shilka in the city is ideal against the infantry.
                  1. Flooding
                    Flooding 9 November 2021 14: 52
                    -2
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    They shoot in a checkerboard pattern, in turn. You can even see it in your video.

                    how does this affect the density of the fire?
                  2. Flooding
                    Flooding 9 November 2021 16: 12
                    -1
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    They shoot in a checkerboard pattern, in line. You can even see it in your video.

                    by "checkerboard order" you probably mean alternate shooting

                    when two cannons are installed, and they do not have the ability to fire at the same time, then it is ABSOLUTELY OBVIOUS that they shoot alternately

                    but this in no way increases the density of fire that you wrote about above

                    but it has a certain reason, because the cannons are powered separately. and can be loaded with various types of ammunition.
                    1. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 16: 45
                      0
                      Quote: Flood
                      by "checkerboard order" you probably mean alternate shooting

                      Exactly. Just why did you decide that alternate shooting does not increase the density of fire, because 2 guns are not one.
                      The rate of fire is in any case higher, again this can be understood by comparing it with the rate of fire of a conventional BMP.
                      But I agree on separate nutrition.
                      1. Flooding
                        Flooding 9 November 2021 16: 48
                        -1
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Just why did you decide that alternate shooting does not increase the density of fire, because 2 guns are not one.

                        what should Aunt Vika tell us?
                        "Density of fire is one of the main characteristics of the intensity of fire impact on a target, which is expressed in the total number of shells (bullets, mines, etc.) per unit area of ​​the target (sometimes - per the length of its front) per unit of time."
                      2. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 17: 13
                        0
                        Quote: Flood
                        which is expressed in the total number of shells

                        And what do you disagree with? I’m talking about the same, two guns in any case create a denser fire, a higher fire impact on the target.
                      3. Flooding
                        Flooding 9 November 2021 17: 18
                        -1
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        I’m talking about the same, two guns in any case create a denser fire, a higher fire effect on the target.

                        but only for a period of time longer than that which is necessary to empty your ammunition with one cannon.
                        therefore not at all "anyway"
                        but only under certain conditions
                        and since the cannons do not fire continuously until the bk is completely exhausted, this is a purely theoretical speculative calculation
                        unpractical
                      4. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 17: 46
                        0
                        Quote: Flood
                        and since the cannons do not fire continuously until the bk is completely depleted

                        In the sense of not leading? belay There is such an opportunity, both to fire one, and both at the same time.
                      5. Flooding
                        Flooding 9 November 2021 18: 07
                        -1
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        There is such an opportunity, both to fire one, and both at the same time.

                        do you state this with evidence of it?
                        or do you just think so?
                        the network has repeatedly written that shooting is possible only one by one
                        and all published videos with shooting confirm this

                        https://tvzvezda.ru/news/2020913956-b4Na8.html

                        if you find a video with simultaneous firing of two guns, I admit I'm wrong
                      6. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 18: 29
                        0
                        Quote: Flood
                        that shooting is possible only one by one

                        Link please?
                      7. Flooding
                        Flooding 9 November 2021 18: 56
                        -1
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Link please?

                        video is not enough for you?
                        I can add a couple more to these two
                      8. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 19: 17
                        0
                        Video is a visual perception that everyone has their own. The reference to the TTX is different, you must understand this.
                      9. Flooding
                        Flooding 9 November 2021 19: 22
                        -1
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Video is a visual perception that everyone has their own

                        do you perceive shooting from one gun as from two?
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        The reference to the TTX is different, you must understand this.

                        reference to low vision and poor perception is something new, you must understand this

                        https://www.vesti.ru/article/2521503

                        shooting from one barrel is clearly visible
                      10. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 19: 30
                        0
                        Quote: Flood
                        do you perceive shooting from one gun as from two?

                        Let me answer you, and that's it. Each of the two BMPT cannons has a certain rate of fire, and this is a fact. As you said, they have separate loading, and therefore have separate triggers. This is also a fact.
                        Accordingly, there is no reason to constructively restrict firing with two barrels at the same time. There are not many videos with shooting, and the staggered fire can only be explained by the different times of pressing the trigger.
                        And that's all. All the rest of the discussion is only with reference to the performance characteristics.
                        Goodbye. hi
                      11. Flooding
                        Flooding 9 November 2021 19: 41
                        -1
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        And that's all. All the rest of the discussion is only with reference to the performance characteristics.
                        Bye

                        I understand that bmpd is not an authority for you
                        but still I will try to get through

                        "In its current form, the BMPT" Object 199 "is rather a tank with a weakened main armament (a 30-mm cannon with an ATGM instead of a 125-mm cannon with an ATGM. firing, so in terms of fire, there is actually one gun), due to which it accommodates two additional crew members with anti-personnel grenade launchers. "

                        https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4200849.html
                      12. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 22: 00
                        0
                        Quote: Flood
                        I understand that bmpd is not an authority for you

                        I have not heard of this. This is a commentary by a specialist like you and me.
                        Quote: Flood
                        not intended for simultaneous firing, so in terms of fire, there is actually one gun)

                        Two guns with separate loading, and the possibility of simultaneous firing of only one - some kind of nonsense. If the loading mechanism is separate, respectively, separate and release, otherwise the meaning is lost. And how can that save space for two additional crew members? Think logically yourself?
                        But even if a system of alternate firing of barrels is somehow introduced there, it turns out that in the end the rate of fire is still higher, since two guns are two shells, not one. Although from the point of view of logic, such a system is appropriate to implement only with combined loading, so as not to overheat one barrel during prolonged shooting. But the charging systems are separate there, tk. BMPT can fire with one barrel and two. Even if there is no doublet in the video. By the way, one more assumption - a checkerboard pattern can be introduced to eliminate excessive recoil (whoever shot a doublet will understand). But again we have the density of fire of 2 guns.
                      13. Flooding
                        Flooding 9 November 2021 22: 45
                        -1
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        I have not heard of this. This is a commentary by a specialist like you and me.

                        but you could have asked
                        this is not a comment, but an excerpt from a publication on bmpd.livejournal - a fairly authoritative and well-known military-themed blog


                        I also brought the link
                        but you are not interested if it does not fit into a mosaic convenient for you personally

                        "I understand that bmpd is not an authority for you" was written with irony
                        but it turned out that I accidentally hit the top ten

                        now there is certainly no point in further discussion
                        build on your conclusions based on ... your own assumptions
                      14. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 10 November 2021 08: 26
                        0
                        Quote: Flood
                        build on your conclusions based on ... your own assumptions

                        Unlike you, I build them on the basis of logic, which I wrote about. You hid behind the comment of a very authoritative, but for some reason little-known sharashka. laughing
                      15. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 08: 31
                        0
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        You hid behind the comment of a very authoritative, but for some reason little-known sharashka

                        are you joking?
                        is bmpd blog little known?
                        under each publication of which there are from 100 to 300 comments?
                        This is something new
                        you have just dropped the rating of the Military Review
                        it clearly does not get it in comparison with this "little-known sharazh"
                        but your comment is a good illustration of your level of awareness and objectivity

                        and did not try to read instead of ranting?
                        you didn't even read my link to bmpd
                        which was so requested before
                        but talk about logic
                        what kind of logic do you have if it sweeps aside video facts? and is based solely on its own assumptions
                      16. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 10 November 2021 08: 42
                        0
                        Quote: Flood
                        but did not try to read instead of ranting

                        You are ranting, dear. Instead of performance characteristics, they brought an opinion. You'd better ask what kind of gun is on the BMPT. And there is 2A42, and its characteristics are publicly available. And there are two of them! And even if they strike in a checkerboard pattern in order to neutralize the effect of the doublet, the rate of fire is somehow twice as high. This gun does not need intermediate cooling for up to 500 rounds. Ammunition BMPT 900 rounds for two barrels?
                        Can you give at least one reason why the rate of fire could be reduced?
                      17. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 08: 46
                        0
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        You rant, dear

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        You hid behind the comment of a very authoritative, but for some reason little-known sharashka




                        so which of us is not responsible for words?
                        the answer is obvious.
                        but I do not expect you to admit that you are wrong.
                        you belong to the category of people who are not capable of this.
                      18. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 10 November 2021 09: 18
                        0
                        Again, you are hiding behind a comment instead of answering my questions. I don’t see any sense to continue.
                        Goodbye.
                      19. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 09: 22
                        0
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        I don’t see any sense to continue.

                        I have provided you with video facts
                        I gave a link to an authoritative resource
                        what else to look for meaning to a person who is looking for calculations of the density of fire from BMPT cannons in the Gatling system?
                        and where does the "comment"?
                        this was the link to the article from which I cited an excerpt!
                        what the hell is the comment I'm hiding behind?
                      20. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 10 November 2021 09: 56
                        0
                        Quote: Flood
                        what the hell is the comment I'm hiding behind?

                        Open your link, and notice where (!) It is indicated that the gun is essentially one. The bmpd comment, not the article itself.
                      21. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 10: 10
                        0
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Open your link, and notice where (!) It is indicated that the gun is essentially one. The bmpd comment, not the article itself.

                        this is the author's article
                        first comes information from the source
                        under it is the author's opinion
                        all this is the author's article, under which readers leave comments



                        are you having trouble understanding what you have written?
                        "in terms of fire, the gun is one" since one of the two barrels at the time can fire
                        therefore, "in terms of fire" it is incorrect to talk about two guns
                      22. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 10 November 2021 11: 06
                        0
                        Will you answer at least one of my questions?
                      23. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 11: 08
                        0
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Will you answer at least one of my questions?

                        formulate it first
                        and if you want to get answers, then learn how to answer your opponent's questions and take responsibility for your words
                      24. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 10 November 2021 11: 26
                        0
                        Quote: Flood
                        then learn to answer your opponent's questions and take responsibility for your words

                        If you want to show off, then this is not for me. The only argument that you gave is the opinion of the bmpd LJ administration. And that's all. Although the video shows that the shooting is carried out in a checkerboard pattern. I have voiced my opinion on this matter to you. In response, I received repeated references to bmpd authority.
                        Then I take my leave, and I will not answer your comments, because I have no desire to conduct a dialogue with a person who cannot connect logical chains. hi
                      25. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 11: 30
                        0
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        The only argument that you gave is the opinion of the bmpd LJ administration.

                        well, almost so))
                        Quote: Flood
                        I have provided you with video facts
                        I gave a link to an authoritative resource

                        agree, this is more than your unfounded reasoning

                        and yes, about logic with a capital L
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Didn't you know that Gatling guns cannot fire from all barrels at once, but only in turn?
                        I think the hint is clear?

                        Explain your riddle. Don't try to explain yourself in hints. You can't do it.
                      26. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 9 November 2021 23: 15
                        0
                        I suspect that the matter is in the shooting modes - at the ranges we have a certain number of shells to kill ... that's why the gunners shoot in short bursts, and in order for the second gun to work, you need to squeeze the trigger
                      27. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 05: 52
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        I suspect that the matter is in the shooting modes - at the ranges we have a certain number of shells to kill ... that's why the gunners shoot in short bursts, and in order for the second gun to work, you need to squeeze the trigger

                        all modes are being worked out at the landfills
                      28. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 10 November 2021 09: 55
                        0
                        they work out everything, but for recording they usually take the beginning of the exercises so that journalists do not have an eyesore, not to mention the exercises
                      29. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 10: 04
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        they work out everything, but for recording they usually take the beginning of the exercises so that journalists do not have an eyesore, not to mention the exercises

                        is this the argument?
                        above I gave a link where fire was fired simultaneously from both grenade launchers
                        and there was a reporter nearby. in my opinion, from the Star
                      30. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 10 November 2021 10: 12
                        0
                        well, watch your own video from Zvezda, 2:20 .. as you can see that they shoot from both guns, just the second gun is activated at an increased rate of fire
                      31. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 10: 20
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        well, watch your own video from Zvezda, 2:20 .. as you can see that they shoot from both guns

                        you know, didn’t see
                        that the trunks are shaking I see
                        to both shoot - no, not visible
                      32. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 10 November 2021 10: 22
                        0
                        laughing but you now need them to twitch in sync?
                      33. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 10: 25
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        laughing but you now need them to twitch in sync?

                        I do not like empty correspondence
                        either facts and reasoning or goodbye
                        even when firing from one gun, the second barrel will twitch from its recoil
                        these are the laws of physics
                      34. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 10 November 2021 10: 27
                        0
                        laughing the facts are "look, they shoot together from separately installed AGS"?)
                      35. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 10: 34
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        the facts are "look, they shoot together from separately installed AGS"?)

                        I mentioned the simultaneous shooting of the AG only in response to your ridiculous comment
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        for recording, they usually take the beginning of the exercises so that journalists do not have an eyesore

                        facts I call a video with slow-motion shots and a link to a thematic resource
                        if you chat, then I'm not interested
                      36. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 10 November 2021 10: 36
                        0
                        for those who are in the tank, there is generally an answer from the developers from 2013 - the main rate of fire from 1 gun, the second gun starts to work in case of prolonged firing to reduce overheating, i.e. synchronous shots, which you require, no, BUT variable shooting from different barrels in one volley is, which allows us to speak about the use of both barrels for shooting
                      37. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 10: 44
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        for those who are in the tank, there is actually an answer from the developers from 2013

                        where is he? share a secret
                        and finally get out of the tank!
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        those. synchronous shots that you require, no, BUT variable shooting from different barrels in one salvo is

                        that is, the guns do not fire at the same time
                        then what have you been trying to prove to me all this time?
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        allows us to talk about the use of both barrels for shooting

                        of course allows. otherwise why do we need a second cannon?
                        but that was not the point.
                        you tried to prove that it is possible to fire both guns at the same time!
                        and here on you, change your shoes
                      38. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 10 November 2021 10: 51
                        0
                        laughing at the same time, even on ship installations, the cannons do not fire) but fire alternately)
                      39. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 11: 00
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        at the same time, even on ship installations, the cannons do not fire

                        1. what kind of ship auctions do you write about?
                        2.What thesis of mine did you argue with when you joined the correspondence?
                      40. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 10 November 2021 11: 02
                        0
                        laughing ooh, let's get excuses for 300
                      41. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 9 November 2021 23: 13
                        +1
                        And then what?
                      42. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 05: 50
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        And then what?

                        set the playback speed to slow and ask yourself why all the casings are thrown from the left
                      43. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 10 November 2021 09: 54
                        0
                        on the video from 1 minute it is clearly visible that both guns are firing, and the shells are poured on the left because there is an ejection on the left of both guns
                      44. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 10: 02
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        on the video from 1 minute it is clearly visible that both guns are firing

                        controversially
                        playback speed 0,25
                        starting from 0:58, a total of six shots were fired
                        of these six, the fifth seems to be from the right barrel (for the viewer of the left)
                        A question for connoisseurs: if a burst from both barrels is given, how does one barrel manage to fire 5 shots, and the second only one?
                      45. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 10 November 2021 10: 06
                        0
                        I wrote about this above, about connecting the second gun
                      46. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 10: 15
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        I wrote about this above, about connecting the second gun

                        did you write what?
                        your guess?
                        the second barrel fires one round while the first fires five - and this is what you call "gun connection"?
                        Where have you heard this?
                        this is 2A42. it has preset firing modes.
                        but you've just come up with something new.
                      47. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 10 November 2021 10: 19
                        0
                        I am aware of the modes, and you will review your video from the star)
                      48. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 10: 23
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        I am aware of the modes, and you will review your video from the star)

                        and it does not bother you at all
                        it turned out that the cannon shoots single
            2. Old tanker
              Old tanker 9 November 2021 17: 56
              +1
              but supplementing with a higher high-explosive impact does not really hurt

              The high-explosive action of the shell covered by the Terminator is quite enough. BMPT for this and was created to eliminate the threat from the infantry. Here the rate of fire, the density of fire and the total mass of the salvo are important. That is, to make sure that the infantry could not raise their head off. Did not take advantage of the pause in her shelling to fire a shot at the armor. Chechen fighters often launched ATGMs without escort, you just aim like a NUR. And they managed to hit, especially in standing or slowly moving vehicles. Although, of course, it was more often so smeared. And when a sheaf of thirty flies in your direction, then you have to be completely dumbfounded in order to try to aim the installation at the target or hit it out of the border.
              So in this case 30mm is enough.
              1. Flooding
                Flooding 9 November 2021 18: 19
                -1
                Quote: Old Tankman
                in this case, 30mm is sufficient.

                almost 3-fold difference in weight of cc
                accordingly, a very decent difference in high-explosive action
                is this difference necessary? I think yes
                I agree, if the infantry with anti-tank weapons is covered with a burst of 30mm - it will not seem a little
                and if the exact location in the greenery or the building is unknown?
                then the question arises how deadly an inaccurate turn will become for the enemy
                1. Old tanker
                  Old tanker 9 November 2021 18: 31
                  +1
                  Just a line of thirty will be more effective in green stuff. If you stray the OFZ, then due to the greater number of shells in the queue of fragments and and the affected area will be larger. Dade 12,7 MDZ perfectly makes green wool. And if you load with BTs, you can mow the green stuff. laughing
                  1. Flooding
                    Flooding 9 November 2021 19: 16
                    -1
                    Quote: Old Tankman
                    If you stray the OFZ, then due to the greater number of shells in the queue of fragments and and the affected area there will be more

                    the difference in rate of fire is 1,5-1,7 times in favor of 30 mm versus 45 mm
                    but what is the difference in the number of submunitions in these calibers? that the comparison is in favor of 45 mm, I think there is no point in proving
                    But in addition to the high-explosive action, it is the fragments that are the main factors in the defeat of manpower
                    Quote: Old Tankman
                    Dade 12,7 MDZ excellent wool green

                    but who can argue with that?
                    it's not about what gauge wool, and which one does not
                    it was about comparative effectiveness
                    1. Barberry25
                      Barberry25 9 November 2021 23: 27
                      0
                      the problem is that there is no 45 mm cannon as well as ammunition supplies ..
                      1. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 05: 53
                        -1
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        the problem is that there is no 45 mm cannon as well as ammunition supplies ..

                        I wrote above about the 45mm
                        but you have no time to read
                        but the minuses have already been born
                        minus - is this all your arguments?
                        then you don’t come to me
                      2. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 10 November 2021 09: 58
                        0
                        and how does this affect my words that there are NO guns, there is an exhibition sample without tests, as well as NO stocks of shells. And yes, I have nothing more to do, as every "topvar's expert" I come across has disadvantages, you didn’t give up to me for nothing
                      3. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 10: 13
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        how does this affect my words that there are NO guns, there is an exhibition sample without tests

                        there is no gun in the troops
                        state tests have not been carried out
                        but R&D and most likely factory tests have been carried out
                        the cannon exists as a sample
                        can we say that it is NOT?
                      4. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 10 November 2021 10: 18
                        0
                        yeah, the cannon has surfaced at the exhibition all the time and that's all ... and without a factory test guarantee ... so yes, it is NOT ... and most importantly, there are NO SHELLS for IT ..
                      5. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 10: 22
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        the main thing is that she has no shells ..

                        my dear, I did not claim that there are shells
                        in the comment above, I drew my opponent's attention to the fact that the 45mm cannon was already lit up at the exhibition
                        to which you decided to write that there is no cannon and no shells
                      6. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 10 November 2021 10: 23
                        0
                        remind what year it was?
                      7. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 07: 00
                        0
                        I'm sorry for the false accusation
                        Quote: Flood
                        but the minuses have already been born

                        already realized that it was not you
                    2. Old tanker
                      Old tanker 10 November 2021 06: 20
                      +1
                      In greenery, the efficiency of relatively light fragments is 30mm or 45mm, almost the same. Since the range of expansion is generally limited by the branches and branches. And the more ammunition per unit of time explodes in one and the same area, the higher their density is.
                      1. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 06: 33
                        -1
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        In greenery, the efficiency of relatively light fragments is 30mm or 45mm, almost the same. Since the range of expansion is generally limited by the branches and branches. And the more ammunition per unit of time explodes in one and the same area, the higher their density is.

                        yes
                        to listen to you, the laws of physics no longer work
                        only recently you wrote how a large-caliber machine gun mows green
                        and now you assure that the branches will be an obstacle for the fragments
                        and the fact that 45mm ofs gives a lot more striking elements is not at all a fact for you
                        I'm not talking about the greater damaging effect of fragments from 45mm compared to 30mm

                        but it seems that I was in vain talking about Barberry
                        I apologize to him if I was wrong
                      2. Old tanker
                        Old tanker 10 November 2021 06: 52
                        0
                        Give an approximate comparative number, weight, speed and energy of 45mm fragments (45mm shells under development only!) And 30mm. And then the laws of fijics will immediately tell whether 45mm is much more effective than 30mm. In the meantime, all your arguments are just words.
                      3. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 06: 58
                        0
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        Give an approximate comparative number, weight, speed and energy of 45mm fragments

                        there is logic and hard facts
                        an increase in the number (total mass) of fragments and their lethality take place with an increase in the caliber of projectiles
                        this is a fact that you cannot argue with

                        but you are like water off a duck's back
                      4. Old tanker
                        Old tanker 10 November 2021 07: 05
                        +1
                        Logic just dictates that the weight, energy and speed of the fragments in 30 and 45mm shells will be approximately the same. The difference is likely to be in their number. Naturally, 45mm has more, but obviously not 1,5 times. Accordingly, 30mm with a XNUMX times higher rate of fire will create more fragments in the same area in the same unit of time. So it will be more effective in greenery conditions.
                      5. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 07: 14
                        -1
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        Naturally, 45mm has more, but obviously not 1,5 times

                        are you new to geometry?
                        Do you know how the area and volume change in response to a change in linear dimensions?
                        with a seemingly small difference between 30 and 45 mm, the difference in the mass of the cc is almost threefold
                      6. Old tanker
                        Old tanker 10 November 2021 07: 44
                        +1
                        So far I have not seen any of the figures you quoted.
                        Do you take into account the increase in the mass of the explosive, and the thickness of the walls of the case and the energy for their rupture?
                        Here is a quote from the manual "Fragmentation Projectiles":
                        A lethal fragment is considered to be a splinter weighing at least 5 g. When a 76-mm grenade breaks, 200-250 pieces are obtained, 107-mm - 300-400, 122-mm - 400-500 and 152-mm - 500-700 PCS.
                        As you can see, the indicated ratios are clearly not in favor of your hypothesis.
                      7. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 08: 06
                        -1
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        When a 76-mm grenade breaks, 200-250 pieces are obtained, 107-mm - 300-400, 122-mm - 400-500 and 152-mm - 500-700 pieces.

                        you didn't even understand what you just quoted
                        explain
                        an increase in caliber by 30-40% gives an increase in the number of lethal fragments of at least 100 units
                        that is, each shell burst is plus 100-150 lethal fragments
                        Now think about how many lethal fragments a 30mm off-line gives, if a 76mm grenade gives them 200-250
                        at best, three times less, i.e. no more than 70
                        oops i'm sorry
                        weight of a 30mm projectile in the region of 380-390 grams
                        not sure if this figure includes cbm
                        if it does not even include, and even if we assume that exclusively all the fragments have a mass of more than 5 grams, then we get about 70 lethal fragments (absolute in vacuum)
                        but it is absolutely certain that most of the debris formed during the explosion has a lower mass
                        as a result, the number of lethal fragments from 30mm offs cannot exceed 50 pieces
                        rather less

                        add 100 pieces (according to the data you provided) to get the number of lethal fragments for 45mm
                        this is at least a 100% increase

                        I already wrote that you are out of tune with geometry? with math, apparently, too.
                      8. Old tanker
                        Old tanker 10 November 2021 09: 20
                        0
                        Many letters, but little sense.
                        So pure math.
                        We compare the effectiveness of 3 76mm rounds to 2 of a larger caliber - as much as 107mm. Their caliber ratio is about the same from 30mm to 45mm. 1,5 and 1,4, respectively. This assumption is needed to correspond to a 1,5 higher rate of fire.
                        3 × 200 = 600 shards.
                        2 × 300 = 600 shards.
                        Conclusion: their number is the same.
                        That is, replacing a 45mm cannon with a lower rate of fire will not give an advantage in the formation of fragments with a 1,5 times higher rate of fire of 30mm.
                        Although it is not clear to me where you got the figures from 1,5 to 1,7 times. Even if 2A72 and 2A42 differ from each other in rate of fire. A 2A42 has a different rate of fire.
                      9. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 09: 40
                        0
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        Although it is not clear to me where you got the figures from 1,5 to 1,7 times. Even if 2A72 and 2A42 differ from each other in rate of fire

                        if a 57mm assault rifle has a rate of fire of about 100 shots, then I think it's fair to focus on 150 for 45mm
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        So pure math

                        projectile weight 30mm of the order of 380-400 g
                        projectile weight 45mm about 1000 g
                        difference in weight 2,5 times

                        from here https://wwii.space/
                        it is fair to assume that the number of lethal fragments directly depends on the amount of metal in the projectile
                        and it is obvious that the capabilities of the 30mm caliber for the formation of lethal fragments are limited by its mass
                        and your comparison of larger calibers is, to put it mildly, incorrect
                        but also your comparison does not take into account the damaging factor of a larger caliber at a greater distance
                        higher high-explosive effect + more lethal fragments + greater distance at which these fragments have a damaging effect
                      10. Old tanker
                        Old tanker 10 November 2021 10: 49
                        0
                        Rate of fire 2A42 double 220 and 550.

                        There is no direct linear dependence of the number of fragments on the size of the projectile. Since the fragments are formed of different sizes and masses. It depends both on the mass of the explosive and on the thickness of the material of the walls of the projectile. And they will be different for different parameters. If you take with
                        outfits of larger caliber 122 and 152mm, for example, they have the same number of fragments.
                      11. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 10: 51
                        0
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        There is no direct linear dependence of the number of fragments on the size of the projectile

                        it even becomes uncomfortable for you
                        I did not call this dependence a straight line, but it is obvious even from the figures you quoted
                      12. Old tanker
                        Old tanker 10 November 2021 10: 57
                        0
                        You have not supported your obviousness with any formula, not a single mathematical calculation.
                        So far, it is obvious that the total salvo of one 2A42 in terms of the mass of fragments is not inferior, and at a high rate, significantly exceeds your hypothetical forty-five in the number of fragments formed.
                        Unfortunately, you have not been able to prove the opposite.
                      13. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 11: 02
                        0
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        You have not supported your obviousness with any formula, not a single mathematical calculation.
                        So far, it is obvious that the total salvo of one 2A42 in terms of the mass of fragments is not inferior to

                        excuse me, you "did not support this thesis with a single formula, not a single mathematical calculation"
                        Why don't you demand from yourself what you demand from others?
                      14. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 11: 05
                        0
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        You have not supported your obviousness with any formula, not a single mathematical calculation

                        but I am ready to refute your calculations and statements

                        are you sure you're ready to tackle the formulas?
                        https://studfile.net/preview/5082433/page:24/
                        i left it for dessert
                      15. Old tanker
                        Old tanker 10 November 2021 11: 13
                        0
                        I gave you the mathematical ratio of the number of fragments formed to the ratio of calibers with an equal coefficient. From you only your own guesses and reflections.
                        First, calculate the total mass of a salvo for 1 minute of the 2A42 cannon at low and high rates. Then compare with the total mass of the salvo during the same time your hypothetical forty-five with a 1,5 slower rate of fire than the 2A42 at a low rate.
                      16. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 11: 23
                        0
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        I gave you the mathematical ratio of the number of fragments formed to the ratio of calibers with an equal coefficient

                        which I have already denied
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        From you only your own guesses and reflections.

                        so your "mathematical relationship" turned out to be untenable
                        in other words untrue
                        but you didn't even notice it
                        I will repeat

                        and compare with your "mathematical ratio"
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        lethal fragments when breaking a 76-mm grenade turns out to be 200-250 pieces, 107-mm - 300-400, 122-mm - 400-500 and 152-mm - 500-700 pieces

                        have you noticed anything?
                      17. Old tanker
                        Old tanker 10 November 2021 11: 37
                        0
                        First, calculate the total mass of a salvo in 1 minute from a 2A42 cannon with a low and high rate of fire. And compare it with the total mass of a volley of a hypothetical forty-five with a rate of 150 rounds per minute.
                      18. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 11: 50
                        0
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        First, calculate the total mass of a salvo in 1 minute from a 2A42 cannon with a low and high rate of fire

                        something you give up your words too easily
                        So all your arguments now boil down to the fact that the total mass of a salvo from 30mm 2A42 is higher than the hypothetical of 45mm, but ONLY at 500 rds / minute?
                        yes, I agree
                        that when shooting in short bursts is not decisive
                        and when firing long, it will lead to an overexpenditure of ammunition and a large spread of shells
                      19. Old tanker
                        Old tanker 10 November 2021 11: 59
                        0
                        Well, I proved it to myself mathematically, and not you to me. And then only by the total mass of the salvo. But there is no direct dependence on the total mass of the salvo and the formation of fragments.
                        At the expense of dispersion at a high rate, I agree. But! We cover them with infantry, a group target, not a single one. So there will be no reduction in the effectiveness of defeat.
                        Taking into account the fact that the c / c 30mm is larger than 45, the ratio of ammunition consumption will be approximately the same. But we can’t count it, because we don’t know b / c hypothetical 45mm
                      20. Old tanker
                        Old tanker 10 November 2021 11: 54
                        0
                        I will answer for you myself.
                        220 400 × = 88000
                        1000 150 × = 15000
                        In total, the total mass of the magpie salvo is 1,7 times higher than that of the 30mm. And here she certainly kicks in.
                        But at a high pace
                        550 400 × = 22000
                        In total, at a high pace at 30mm, the total mass of the salvo is 1,4 higher than that of your 45mm.
                        Here is another argument for you that you could not prove to me that 45mm will be more effective.
                        By the way, the low rate on the BMP-2 is used for shooting at vehicles and shelters, and at the infantry, a high rate.
                      21. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 13: 05
                        0
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        I will answer for you myself.

                        captain obvious
                        Quote: Flood
                        the total mass of a salvo from 30mm 2A42 is higher than the hypothetical of 45mm, but ONLY at 500 rds / minute

                        what exactly did you answer for me?
                        Kindergarten
                      22. Old tanker
                        Old tanker 10 November 2021 16: 18
                        0
                        Kindergarten

                        Here it is! And I think that it is you in mathematics in any way.
                      23. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 16: 50
                        0
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        And I think that it’s you in mathematics in any way.

                        How to say
                        to make a mistake by an order of magnitude - no, I will not succeed even with a strong desire
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        1000 150 × = 15000

                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        550 400 × = 22000
                      24. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 13: 18
                        0
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        ... And here she certainly injects.
                        But at a high pace
                        550 400 × = 22000


                        Operating instructions 2А42

                        "Fire mode when shooting
                        The 2A42 product allows firing with single fire, at low and high rates, and firing with single fire and at a low rate is provided by the control panel.

                        Note. Shooting at a high rate is also possible without a remote control by pressing the trigger. The length of the queue is regulated by the pressing time.

                        The maximum permissible mode of fire is 100 shots at a high rate, with 50 shots allowed to be fired in a continuous burst, and the remaining 50 shots in short bursts. After this, complete cooling of the barrel is required.."
                      25. Old tanker
                        Old tanker 10 November 2021 16: 24
                        0
                        The maximum permissible mode of fire is 100 shots at a high rate, with 50 shots allowed to be fired in a continuous burst, and the remaining 50 shots in short bursts. After that, complete cooling of the barrel is required. "

                        Good. Since you do not understand the conventional units of measurement (and the rate of fire is considered to be shots per minute, like the total mass of the salvo), then calculate the mass of the salvo in 9 seconds. Just 50 rounds will fly out and during the same time your forty-five.
                        Oh, I forgot, kindergarten!
                      26. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 16: 51
                        0
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        forgot, kindergarten

                        exactly
                        this nullifies all your theoretical reasoning and returns to what I wrote to you earlier
                        Quote: Flood
                        So all your arguments now boil down to the fact that the total mass of a salvo from 30mm 2A42 is higher than the hypothetical of 45mm, but ONLY at 500 rds / minute?
                        yes, I agree
                        that when shooting in short bursts is not decisive
                        and when firing long, it will lead to an overexpenditure of ammunition and a large spread of shells

                        so we count 50 shots from 30mm in 6 seconds
                        50 x 400 = 20000
                        or 15 shots from 45 mm in 6 seconds
                        15 x 1000 = 15000
                        we get the difference in weight of one 6-second queue

                        despite the fact that 45 mm
                        Quote: Flood
                        higher high-explosive effect + greater distance at which fragments have a damaging effect

                        and the capabilities of the 45 mm cannon are not limited to 15 shots in one burst
                      27. Old tanker
                        Old tanker 10 November 2021 20: 41
                        0
                        Ida, the difference is not in favor of the forty-five. But I am glad that kindergarten is starting to doomatt!
                        and the capabilities of the 45 mm cannon are not limited to 15 shots in one burst

                        Bring the performance characteristics of this notorious 45mm cannon.
                      28. Flooding
                        Flooding 11 November 2021 01: 42
                        0
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        Ida, the difference is not in favor of the forty-five. But I am glad that kindergarten is starting to doomatt!

                        Does this person have memory gaps?
                        because I wrote much earlier
                        Quote: Flood
                        the total mass of a salvo from 30mm 2A42 is higher than the hypothetical of 45mm, but ONLY at 500 rds / minute?
                        yes, I agree

                        it was because of your inconsistency and illogicality that I remembered kindergarten
                        not at all because of your weak mathematical knowledge
                        after all, not everyone is given the ability
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        Bring the performance characteristics of this notorious 45mm cannon.

                        it's easy to figure it out
                        it is enough to raise information on Soviet 57mm assault rifles or foreign 40mm
                        but even without that, under this article I had to teach you a lot. it's time and honor to know.
                        you can think that for a 45mm machine gun the maximum burst is 15 shots
                      29. Flooding
                        Flooding 11 November 2021 09: 05
                        0
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        calculate the mass of the volley in 9 seconds.
                        Just 50 rounds will fly out and during the same time your forty-five.
                        Oh, I forgot, kindergarten!

                        nursery mathematician?
                        with a firing mode of 500 shots. it takes 50 seconds to shoot 6 shells

                        shells fly out of the barrel, not cartridges
                      30. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 10: 53
                        0
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        If you take with
                        outfits of larger caliber 122 and 152mm, for example, they have the same number of fragments.

                        I don't know who to believe anymore
                        you definitely can't be trusted
                        since you have safely forgotten what you wrote earlier
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        122 mm - 400-500 and 152 mm - 500-700 pcs.

                        400-500, arithmetic mean 450
                        500-700, arithmetic mean 600
                        well, exactly equal!
                      31. Old tanker
                        Old tanker 10 November 2021 11: 38
                        0
                        They did not refute it at all. They said that it was untenable without any calculations.
                        Since there is no data on the number of fragments of 30mm shells, and hypothetical 45mm shells do not exist yet, I took the calibers that are closest in terms of the ratio. This is called the casting method.
                        By the ratio of 122 to 152, I meant that both 122mm can form 500 fragments, and 152mm can form 500 fragments. Everything will depend on their size. So at different calibers, they can form ONE number of fragments. And it turns out that the caliber of these shells is not an overwhelming factor on the number of fragments.
                        And the arithmetic mean yes, different.
                      32. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 11: 55
                        0
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        They did not refute it at all. Wordlessly, without calculations, they scribbled that it is untenable

                        blah blah
                        I wrote about the numbers that were provided by you
                        they just turned out to be dubious
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        By the ratio of 122 to 152, I meant that both 122mm can form 500 fragments, and 152mm can form 500 fragments.

                        keep in mind - this is not about mathematics
                        mathematics is an exact science
                        keep this in mind))
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        So at different calibers, they can form ONE number of fragments.

                        Are you seriously?
                        want to remember the theory of probability and calculate the probability of such a coincidence?
                        it's not even funny
                      33. Old tanker
                        Old tanker 10 November 2021 12: 07
                        0
                        Whatever the probability, but it exists. That is, shells in different calibers, under certain circumstances, can produce the same number of fragments. It is a fact!
                        And yes, count. It will be curious.
                        Just for the sake of purity of calculation, find the data on the average amount of the formation of fragments in the maximum amount at 122mm and the average amount of the minimum amount at 152mm.

                        I was really curious about it.
                      34. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 13: 08
                        0
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        Whatever the probability, but it exists.

                        this probability is less likely that the projectile will not explode, and there will be no fragments in principle.
                        that is, it is less likely that 30mm and 152mm shells will give an equal number of fragments - zero
                        I already wrote that mathematics is not yours. Do what is easier for you.
                      35. Old tanker
                        Old tanker 10 November 2021 16: 27
                        0
                        And where are the calculations, after all, the theory of probability was mentioned in kindergarten?
                      36. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 17: 00
                        0
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        And where are the calculations, after all, the theory of probability was mentioned in kindergarten?

                        judging by your multiplications with the loss of zeros, this is an unbearable burden for you
                      37. Flooding
                        Flooding 10 November 2021 17: 09
                        0
                        Quote: Old Tankman
                        And where are the calculations, after all, the theory of probability was mentioned in kindergarten?

                        the probability that a 122mm projectile will give 500 1/100 fragments, for 152mm 1/200
                        the probability of a joint event is equal to the product of probabilities 1/20000

                        I hope you don’t need to explain that this probability is lower than the probability of failure?

                        of course this is very simplistic
                        since the probabilities of the formation of a particular number of fragments are not equivalent
                        these are random events
                2. fiv
                  fiv 11 November 2021 09: 00
                  0
                  Then, dear expert, Msta-S should be used as a BMPT.
              2. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 18: 31
                +1
                Quote: Old Tankman
                And when a sheaf of thirty flies in your direction, then you have to be completely stoned,

                I no longer know how to explain this to my opponent! request
                1. Flooding
                  Flooding 9 November 2021 19: 05
                  -1
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  I no longer know how to explain this to my opponent!

                  we had a dispute about the density of fire, dear opponent
                  and that the BMPT does not fire from two barrels at the same time
                  and even about the Gatling system
                  and that Shilka is not an "air defense tank"
              3. Sergey Aleksandrovich
                Sergey Aleksandrovich 9 November 2021 21: 26
                +1
                If that were the case? The 30mm cannon is effective at ranges up to 1,5 km, up to 2 km at the most. At long ranges, the projectile or projectiles fly anywhere, but not at the target. The insufficient effectiveness of the small-caliber cannon at a 2-kilometer distance was also noted by its creators. Therefore, they are striving to switch to a larger 57-mm caliber. The developed remote blasting for a 30-mm caliber may also be insufficiently effective.
                The absence of at least a weakly armored turret and a small angle of elevation of the trunks also do not add efficiency to the machine under discussion.
      2. Albert1988
        Albert1988 9 November 2021 19: 52
        0
        Quote: Ingvar 72

        But what about the density of fire? After all, a larger caliber cannot provide the same density of fire as 2 * 30mm.
        But the vehicle is designed to be used against tank-hazardous infantry, which is why Shilka is still used for this purpose.

        Better fire control (modern optoelectronic systems + radars) and programmable ammunition - that's compensation.
    4. valentine light
      valentine light 9 November 2021 10: 23
      +1
      I completely agree with you, there are few weapons to counter groups of "tank hunters" and the AG, or even two (one on each side) would add effectiveness.
      1. Flooding
        Flooding 9 November 2021 10: 33
        +1
        Quote: valentin light
        AG, or even two on each side would add efficiency

        they were, as it were, in the previous incarnation of the BMPT based on the T-90
        but not in tower version
        and almost coursework, with a scanty sector of shelling
        and even requiring an operator each
        on BMPT-72 from this location AG refused
        but apparently no place was found on the tower
        it is understandable. in addition to the AG itself, it is necessary to ensure the location / supply of grenades
        when they come to the single-barreled version of the tower, you look, and they will find a place for a grenade launcher
        1. valentine light
          valentine light 9 November 2021 11: 24
          0
          Ag can and should be installed directly on the pylons on the sides of the machine, left and right, power supply through a semi-rigid box from the box-store on board.
          But if I had planned, I would have solved the issue like this - on the sides there is a bracket with a servo drive, a console above it covering it and having an infrared search sensor, like that of hunters, as well as a sight camera. A disposable tube with a fragmentation RG and a second tube with a thermobaric action ("bumblebee") is attached to the bracket itself.
          In my opinion, according to data for 20 years, the tank is more threatened by groups of "tank hunters" and they are guaranteed to hit if they start hunting, as a rule, they are 3-4 detachments of 5 people each and in a timely manner.
          identifying manpower is to increase the liv honor of the tank.
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 9 November 2021 11: 30
            0
            it was this kind of separate placement of weapons that required an increase in the size of the crew
            1. valentine light
              valentine light 9 November 2021 13: 05
              0
              1) The driver of the car 2) The commander is the observer and the operator of the weapon, 3) the operator of the weapon.
              There is no need to increase the crew. Displaying information and controlling weapons on the console, just like in games, without holding your eye to the rubberized sight, see
              twisting the knobs and aiming wheels with the fingers. :))

              But there is one "BUT" - it is necessary to prepare the cockpit according to a different layout scheme.
              1. Flooding
                Flooding 9 November 2021 14: 20
                +1
                Quote: valentin light
                1) The driver of the car 2) The commander is the observer and the operator of the weapon, 3) the operator of the weapon.

                the operator will not physically have time to service different types of weapons, each of which has independent guidance and its own sector of fire
                separately - yes
                together - no
                1. valentine light
                  valentine light 9 November 2021 16: 06
                  0
                  Only the "Fedor" robot can do it at the same time :))
                  Look, there is no need "with all the trunks at once, fluently, furious - FIRE"

                  We are already living with 21st century digital control technologies that could not have been imagined 30 years ago.

                  You need a display / screen and a comfortable joystick designed for the army.
                  The choice of weapon upon receipt of information will be almost instantaneous. You can quickly mark the target with the cursor to set an algorithm, for example, for a cannon - "hit one by one" and do others.
                  And the conandir will still have access to the control of the weapon.
                  All real-microcircuits and programmable controllers will allow it, then it's up to the Weapon Servos ...
                  Find, choose, celebrate, ... it has already been proven that it is possible, in computer games and competitions.

                  The important thing is target search sensors, sighting systems and preparation of crew workstations and the car will be such that it is simply fantastic.
                  1. Flooding
                    Flooding 9 November 2021 16: 15
                    0
                    Quote: valentin light
                    Look, there is no need "with all the trunks at once, fluently, furious - FIRE"

                    just in the conditions of urban combat, it is very important to be able to control several targets
                    be able to choose the means of destruction of a particular target
                    and ideally - simultaneous shelling of more than one target
                    1. valentine light
                      valentine light 9 November 2021 16: 48
                      0
                      Your words - ".. just in the conditions of urban combat it is very important to be able to control several targets .."

                      But in the car, TWO crew members have access to weapon controls.
                      And then, there is important information - you cannot enter armored vehicles into the city, and even more so without infantry, and the purpose of armored vehicles is to support the infantry and suppress firing points, and for this, the range of the tank's guns and BMPT automatic cannons will be quite enough from the defended positions they occupy.
                      With the suppression of firing points and the development of the territory by their infantry, the positions change.

                      By the way, on the joystick I will change weapons faster than two operators.
      2. Hagen
        Hagen 9 November 2021 12: 40
        +3
        Quote: valentin light
        or even two (one on each side) would add efficiency.

        As a result, the T-35 will be born? wink
        1. valentine light
          valentine light 9 November 2021 12: 54
          0
          The T-35 is a multi-turret tank with a hull more like the cruiser Aurora than a tank.
          I suggest a compact bracket mount and you can
          even one-shot RGs, but with fragmentation grenades or thermobaric. It takes only 0.4 m / 2, approximately
        2. Flooding
          Flooding 9 November 2021 14: 21
          +1
          Quote: Hagen
          As a result, the T-35 will be born?

          Feel like a new idea of ​​100 years of freshness is in the air?
          1. valentine light
            valentine light 9 November 2021 16: 13
            0
            T 35 is a "childhood disease" of the beginning of the era of steel "elephant"
            They wanted to conduct an all-round shelling of the enemy without good ventilation and sights.
            But there is one single fact of successful use in June 1941 by an unknown major tanker and cadets of a tank school. They raided against the stream of German columns, where they were in the Belarusian city - they beat quite a few fascists.
            But the T 35 did not have more successes. The major was killed and one cadet only survived, when that one of the ammunition in the turret ran out, the major kicked him out of the car ...
            1. zadorin1974
              zadorin1974 9 November 2021 17: 11
              +1
              You are most likely confused with the raid on Minsk T 28 June 28, 1941 under the command of Major Vasyachkin.
              1. valentine light
                valentine light 9 November 2021 17: 22
                0
                Now I will not pretend to be accurate, because I don’t remember, but I remember that the tank was multi-turret.
                And for those fleeting events, it was a real feat.
                In principle, the T-28 has 3 towers - the main one and two along the course.

                I gave, an example, that especially multi-turret did not have the expected results, and if he believes the legend, then Stalin said, "... what is this ....?, Let there be one gun, but such that it will crush for sure." Legend.
                1. Old tanker
                  Old tanker 9 November 2021 18: 10
                  0

                  I gave an example that especially multi-turret did not have the expected results.

                  Just the same, the T-28 showed itself very well during the assault on the Manerheim line. Precisely because they could fire simultaneously in several directions, including from machine-gun turrets along the trenches. Well, they returned to one tower not to enhance the power of the tank gun, but to strengthen the armor.
                  And the legend says that Stalin removed one turret from the model of the two-turret KV, with the words that the weight of this turret would be better spent on enhancing the armor. But this is more of a legend, of course.
                  1. valentine light
                    valentine light 9 November 2021 19: 17
                    -1
                    The T-28, even according to the encyclopedia, has bulletproof armor and was considered then as support for the infantry, a kind of BMP, but without the landing.
                    In the "Winter War" of 1939-1940, the main tank was the T 26, aka "Vickers" and what does the Finns have
                    were the same "Vickers".
                    The Kv 1 tank was driven there as for combat trials and proved to be excellent.
                    He was on the Mannerheim Line in a one-turret performance.
                    We lost only one car, which was blown up by a powerful land mine, and the crew was intact.
                    1. Old tanker
                      Old tanker 10 November 2021 06: 34
                      -1
                      It's not about booking, but about the concept of multi-turret and its effectiveness in breaking through defensive areas.
                      Well, it is not correct to compare the losses of several experimental vehicles and the losses of combat units. Since both the number of machines and the intensity of combat use are significantly not in favor of the experimenters. Even incomparable! In total, there were three (!) KVs on the Finnish front at different times. The first took part in only one battle. The other two arrived at the front after breaking through the main line of defense of the Finns on February 22.
                      By the way, KVs were not lost at all. The SMK was blown up by a mine.
      3. Old tanker
        Old tanker 9 November 2021 18: 04
        0
        I completely agree with you, there are few weapons to counter groups of "tank hunters" and the AG, or even two (one on each side) would add effectiveness.


        They are on the "Terminators", which are delivered to the 90th division. Which is clearly seen in the photos and videos of those cars. But this is not the first time that the authors of the VO have copied and pasted the BMPT-72 performance characteristics into articles. Looks like the first thing googled on Wikipedia.
        1. valentine light
          valentine light 9 November 2021 19: 22
          0
          Interesting. If there are AG, then what do we not know yet ....?
          After all, we are discussing the combat effectiveness of defending a tank platoon.
    5. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 9 November 2021 10: 32
      -1
      Quote: Flood

      this has been discussed for a long time and is already becoming obvious and inevitable
      one barrel of a larger caliber instead of two 30mm
      and hopefully supplement AG

      Are you suggesting to put 152mm? A cannon or a howitzer? laughing
      1. Flooding
        Flooding 9 November 2021 10: 36
        +1
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        Are you suggesting to put 152mm? A cannon or a howitzer?

        203mm
        why waste time on trifles
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 9 November 2021 10: 37
          0
          Quote: Flood
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk
          Are you suggesting to put 152mm? A cannon or a howitzer?

          203mm
          why waste time on trifles

          Persuaded. We put it. laughing
        2. valentine light
          valentine light 9 November 2021 14: 16
          +1
          Based on the results of US actions in Iraq, one can make sure that Abrams is hit by a 30 mm cannon in the rear projection of the tower, where the result of the defeat is not only the penetration of armor and the destruction of the crew, but the destruction of the external power plant.
          The task of the BMPT, I see the protection of one tank during a special mission or such a platoon, when attacking in an open area, and precisely from counter-tank teams, enemy infantry or disguised ATGMs.
          Countering the main enemy tanks, no matter how it should be, should be the main task, only help in the absence of threats from ATGMs or anti-tank teams with "javelins, RPGs and ATGM Tow-2
          This means that we need means of detecting and suppressing manpower, non-armor-piercing projectiles and shoot at groups of 3 or 5 people.
      2. Ramon Mercader
        Ramon Mercader 9 November 2021 11: 37
        0
        So what's so funny about it? The paths of development are inscrutable, who knows, perhaps we will return to the idea of ​​direct support of 152 mm over time. Well at least they returned to the idea of ​​the ShiSBr (albeit in the format of an experimental company).
    6. Sergey Valov
      Sergey Valov 9 November 2021 10: 44
      +2
      Increasing the caliber is not always beneficial, often requires a rate of fire. As an example, the BMP1 cannon was powerless against the tank and redundant in infantry, but the BMP2 cannon could well stop the tank and is excellent against the infantry.
      1. dnestr74
        dnestr74 9 November 2021 13: 15
        0
        Yah? BMP 1 has a cumulative shot, you can stop a tank at the side, but how can a 30 mm stop a tank? You are confused)
        1. Konnick
          Konnick 9 November 2021 13: 25
          0
          Yah? BMP 1 has a cumulative shot, you can stop a tank at the side, but how can a 30 mm stop a tank? You are confused)

          Here is the answer, comparison ... will simply stop

          https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=khL2nwkdP0M&feature=emb_logo
          Armata would still be fired like that with its huge birdhouses and the splinterproof outer casing of the tower.
        2. valentine light
          valentine light 9 November 2021 19: 26
          0
          In Iraq 30 mm
          stopped.
          But the task is to protect the tank from the ATGM operator Tow 2 and Javelin
    7. Normann
      Normann 9 November 2021 18: 22
      0
      And we will get another tank)
    8. Barberry25
      Barberry25 9 November 2021 23: 07
      0
      taking into account the tank turret, you can put the main barrel of 57 mm and another 30 mm on top ... although my personal opinion is that the best BMPT is object 782 ... they only needed to reduce the crew from 5 to 4 and increase the landing to 3 ...
  3. SKVichyakow
    SKVichyakow 9 November 2021 09: 40
    +2
    For how many years they have not been able to determine the place in the battle formation and the tasks they solve, the same number of tests and tests are carried out. And it seems that everyone has already understood everything that is needed, and adopted it. And again, every year, everything is the same. Yes, I forgot. Two course grenade launchers said that they would be removed, but they are present in all the pictures of the BMPT varieties.
    1. moreman78
      moreman78 9 November 2021 09: 47
      +4
      Quote: SKVichyakow
      For how many years they have not been able to determine the place in the battle formation and the tasks they solve, the same number have been testing and testing them. And it seems that everyone has already understood everything that is needed, and adopted it. And again, every year, everything is the same.

      Yes, the fact of the matter is that the Ministry of Defense does not need this machine, this industrial lobby is actively pushing it through. Therefore, they cannot decide on its place in the OshS troops and on weapons. The Ministry of Defense really needs a heavy infantry fighting vehicle for tank regiments, and not this miracle of technology!
      1. SKVichyakow
        SKVichyakow 9 November 2021 09: 57
        0
        Why, and in tank and motorized rifle, it will be perfectly in place. Especially in urban battles.
        1. moreman78
          moreman78 9 November 2021 10: 05
          +4
          There it will be great in place of TBMP. If everything were as fine as you think, the BMPT "Terminator" would have long ago fit into the organizational structure of the troops, but as you can see - something does not merge with the Ministry of Defense with this model of weapons - that's why they decided for the time being to stick the "short" company (in total 2 platoons of 4 vehicles and 1 vehicle each) in the tank regiment.
          1. SKVichyakow
            SKVichyakow 9 November 2021 10: 47
            0
            Do not be surprised, I want to ask, what did you finish, are you so confident in your conclusions?
            1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
              Sergey Aleksandrovich 9 November 2021 22: 34
              +1
              You don't need to finish anything to see the new "Epoch" combat module with much better characteristics than the "Terminator" weaponry.
              1. SKVichyakow
                SKVichyakow 10 November 2021 10: 22
                -1
                Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                You don't need to finish anything to see the new "Epoch" combat module with much better characteristics than the "Terminator" weaponry.

                BMPT is designed to support tanks from infantry weapons. A BMP-3 with a combat module "Epoch" to support motorized riflemen from arming enemy infantry. Therefore, it plays the role of booking.
    2. Flooding
      Flooding 9 November 2021 10: 37
      +2
      Quote: SKVichyakow
      Two course grenade launchers said that they would be removed, but they are present in all the pictures of the BMPT varieties.

      and removed
      there are none on BMPT-72
      and a crew of three instead of five
      but the photo is not clear where it was taken from
      PS
      apparently you are right
      reviewed the last photos
      grenade launchers in place
      1. SKVichyakow
        SKVichyakow 9 November 2021 10: 51
        +5
        I just noticed that most simply unsubscribe, without delving into the presented pictures. But do not forget to obhait. The courage to admit a mistake is generally found in a few. This is for you. +
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 9 November 2021 11: 00
          0
          Quote: SKVichyakow
          I just noticed that most simply unsubscribe, without delving into the presented pictures

          you may remember this grenadeless version of the BMPT

          1. SKVichyakow
            SKVichyakow 9 November 2021 11: 04
            0
            Of course I remember, but he seems to be on the T-90 platform.
            1. Flooding
              Flooding 9 November 2021 11: 09
              0
              Quote: SKVichyakow
              Of course I remember, but he seems to be on the T-90 platform

              just this version was positioned as a modernization on the basis of the T-72
              1. SKVichyakow
                SKVichyakow 9 November 2021 14: 50
                0
                Well, yes. Only, in my opinion, no one has seen them yet.
  4. Eugene-Eugene
    Eugene-Eugene 9 November 2021 09: 43
    -3
    Well, the office staff became clear. A separate BMPT company for a tank regiment. And then they shouted - how they will stick BMPT into a tank company. And no one even thought about it. Only an additional company will be screwed onto the regiment.
    1. moreman78
      moreman78 9 November 2021 10: 18
      +4
      Quote: Eugene-Eugene
      Well, the office staff became clear. A separate BMPT company for a tank regiment. And then they shouted - how they will stick BMPT into a tank company. And no one even thought about it. Only an additional company will be screwed onto the regiment.

      And what exactly is clear here, besides the fact that an additional company was created as part of the regiment for testing?
      Intelligent people shouted correctly. Because it was initially clear that BMPTs would not replace heavy BMPs. And the introduction of additional equipment into the regiments is an increase in personnel, and additional ammunition, and the supply of fuels and lubricants, etc. Therefore, these questions were asked initially, only the BMPT supporters did not have answers, as they do not now!
      1. Eugene-Eugene
        Eugene-Eugene 9 November 2021 15: 01
        0
        Quote: moreman78
        And the introduction of additional equipment into the regiments is an increase in personnel, and additional ammunition, and the supply of fuels and lubricants, etc.

        There are no established structures for centuries. For example, drone platoons are being created in reconnaissance units. This is also "an increase in personnel, and additional ammunition, and the supply of fuels and lubricants, etc."
  5. 2 Level Advisor
    2 Level Advisor 9 November 2021 09: 54
    +6
    Interestingly, and BMP with "Berezhok" with 30mm, ATGMs and AGS - what will be worse? not in the sense that support for tanks is unnecessary, this is just not discussed, support is needed .. in what way is it fundamentally better? the armament is the same .. the armor of the tower is the same .. the armor is more powerful, perhaps .. but without the remote control, the armor is not much more useful .. and the remote control and the BMP have already been developed .. it seems that this machine is already outdated, 25 years ago right on 5+ was needed, and now the technologies and BMPs are already up to these tasks like ...
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 9 November 2021 10: 38
      +2
      Quote: 2 level advisor
      this machine is already outdated, 25 years ago it was needed for 5+ years, and now the technologies and BMPs are already up to these tasks

      Absolutely right. Threats have changed, now it is the presence of a massive number of ATGMs of 2-3 generations, various UAVs of a tactical level. You need a car in the same order with tanks that will protect them.
      To do this, you need radar, OLS, BIUS, air-blasted projectiles, and corresponding missiles.
    2. URAL72
      URAL72 9 November 2021 10: 54
      +2
      In general, you are right, the functions of the Terminator can be performed by a heavy BMP T-15, but in some cases, for example, vanguard, reconnaissance, convoy escort, urban combat, the Terminator is better.
      1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
        Sergey Aleksandrovich 9 November 2021 21: 54
        0
        Without a turret, it will nowhere be better than the T-15.
    3. Flooding
      Flooding 9 November 2021 14: 55
      0
      Quote: Level 2 Advisor
      armor is more powerful, except perhaps .. but without DZ, the sense of armor is not much more

      tank armor with a machine gun in the lateral projection definitely cannot be flashed
      even 12,7 mm
      so what about "the sense of the armor is not much more" you are wrong
      I agree about the equivalence of weapons
  6. pogis
    pogis 9 November 2021 10: 06
    0
    Why 9? 4 platoons? Or 2?
  7. tank64rus
    tank64rus 9 November 2021 10: 14
    +1
    Less than 25 years have passed, in Algeria it has long been purchased and found application.
  8. st2st
    st2st 9 November 2021 10: 15
    0
    Comrades officers close to this topic, please answer, and why the BMP-3, BMP-4 do not suit the relatives of the RF Armed Forces? The power is the same, plus the troops in the compartments?
  9. Max PV
    Max PV 9 November 2021 10: 44
    +3
    With all my negative attitude to the 30mm caliber in modern conditions, first of all, due to the obviously insufficient armor penetration, I think that it is on the BMPT, precisely in a complex of two guns, that it is optimal. Since the only one allows you to effectively solve the problem of combating the calculation of ATGMs at a distance of over 2 km. What is the problem of the defeat of the ATGM calculation? - in the fact that when using high-impulse guns, the dispersion along the range at such a distance reaches tens and hundreds of meters, and the use of air explosion projectiles or mounted fire of 2A70 or LShO systems requires an accurate determination of the distance, which in practice is very, very difficult, even when using laser rangefinder (from which the beam was reflected from the grass a hundred meters in front of the trench, breastwork, or earth / grass behind the trench?), and, at the same time, machine guns and automatic grenade launchers simply will not reach. At the same time, a burst of two 30mm cannons, 30-40 shells (1,5-2 seconds in time), roughly govlrya, will go into a circle with a diameter of, for example, 4 meters, and the probability of hitting the parapet, ATGM or operator's head will be high enough.
    1. 2 Level Advisor
      2 Level Advisor 9 November 2021 13: 36
      0
      I'll correct you a little ..
      Quote: Max PV
      At the same time, a burst of two 30mm cannons, 30-40 rounds (1,5-2 seconds in time)

      cannon BMPT - 2A42 - Rate of fire 550 rounds / min .. 30-40 rounds - 3-4,5 seconds
    2. alexmach
      alexmach 9 November 2021 13: 56
      0
      it is in a complex of two guns that it is optimal

      Of those two guns that don't fire at the same time? Are they standing there just because they could not suddenly realize selective nutrition?
      1. Max PV
        Max PV 9 November 2021 16: 52
        0
        So, after all, no one bothers to equip both HE tapes. And armor piercing is useless for BMPT. There are simply no targets for them on the battlefield right now. BMPT, this is precisely a tank support vehicle, that is, a) there are fewer of them than tanks, and it is tanks that should work in the technique, and the BMPT should work on infantry, ATGM crews, artillery and pillboxes / bunkers, b) so that the BMPT can do that - to hit something from the equipment on the battlefield, you need a foolish enemy who, either will find something in the warehouses that will pierce with 30mm armor-piercing, and drive it out against the advancing tanks, or substitute the BMPT to the stern of the BMP or armored personnel carrier. Despite the fact that 30mm OFS is enough for all trucks and Hummers.
        1. alexmach
          alexmach 9 November 2021 17: 40
          0
          that is a) there are fewer of them than tanks,

          This is not an obvious conclusion. Before that, infantry was used to cover tanks, and there were more infantrymen in general than tanks. Why BMPT should be less and not at least as much?
          1. Michael HORNET
            Michael HORNET 9 November 2021 21: 13
            0
            And where to get them in such quantity? There are only 9 pieces
            1. alexmach
              alexmach 9 November 2021 23: 25
              0
              And where to get them in such quantity? There are only 9 pieces

              You are putting the question a little upside down. We are here trying to figure out in principle whether such a machine is needed. If you need something for what and in what quantity ...

              Well, if there is nowhere to take them and 1: 1 with tanks it is impossible to produce them, then we go back - are they needed at all and are they needed in large quantities?

              No, of course, you can always equip some special battalion for experimental purposes, maybe it will come in handy. But whether it is necessary to produce them in large quantities and whether it is necessary to shed tears over the fact that they are still not in the troops, it does not seem at all obvious to me. In my opinion, it is better to bring to mind modern infantry fighting vehicles, including the heavy one, and the same Derevatsiya-air defense.
    3. Sergey Aleksandrovich
      Sergey Aleksandrovich 9 November 2021 21: 47
      +1
      And where did you suddenly get the idea that the 30-mm caliber is effective at ranges of more than 2 kilometers? This caliber loses its effectiveness already from 1,5 kilometers. Moreover, I have met in the literature with statements about the complete uselessness of a 30-mm cannon at a distance of about 2 kilometers.
  10. valentine light
    valentine light 9 November 2021 10: 52
    +4
    In my opinion, the main threat to a tank is a group of "tank hunters" (this has already happened in conflicts for 20 years), especially in mountainous and wooded areas or in settlements.
    In practice, we remember the stories and descriptions of the participants that up to 3 groups of 5 people can work on one tank.
    The task is their timely detection and defeat.
    I, from the performance characteristics "Terminator", did not understand whether there are infrared cameras for searching manpower, at least 170 degrees. Now even hunters use heat sensors to search for prey, especially wounded animals, but here "support and protection" of a multi-million tank and personnel from the crew.

    4 containers of missiles intended for armored personnel carriers and tanks, well, or enemy pillboxes, how will they help to resist grenade launchers or ATGM operators hiding in the bushes on both sides?
    We need an automatic grenade launcher or, according to the experience of Israel on armored vehicles, a mortar, which gives sufficient damage with shrapnel.
    Again, in the presence of modern promising sensors for determining and identifying targets along a radius of 360 degrees.
    Yes, even sound, even an echo sounder, even a radar, a cltorv and a "bellgo noise" generator for blocking enemy overheads and blocking radio mines, that is, any innovations that allow you to determine the presence of an enemy in a semi-automatic search and scan with blocking enemy radio signals .. Then it will really be TERMINATOR without quotes. ...
  11. anatoly-tchaicka
    anatoly-tchaicka 9 November 2021 15: 32
    +1
    the ground terminator is a mistake, it must be airborne. advantage: speed, view of the battlefield, accuracy, cost, energy consumption, prospects ... disadvantage: the amount of ammunition ...
  12. Skipper
    Skipper 9 November 2021 18: 55
    -1
    Terminator -3 will be equipped with a 57 mm cannon ... as the T-15 began to be equipped
    1. Michael HORNET
      Michael HORNET 9 November 2021 21: 15
      0
      And you can also use "Cornflower"
      1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
        Sergey Aleksandrovich 9 November 2021 22: 27
        0
        It is not possible, too often you will have to get out on the armor and slip the loaded cassettes.
        1. Michael HORNET
          Michael HORNET 14 November 2021 08: 30
          0
          So change the design, leaving the idea of ​​a self-loading 82 mm mortar
    2. valentine light
      valentine light 9 November 2021 22: 11
      -3
      The Terminator does not need a gun larger than 30 mm.
      Its task is to protect one or three tanks (platoon), not to become a light tank.
      It should protect it from "tank hunters" and from hidden ambushes outside the field of vision of the tank crew.
      You need a weapon that hits the area and has a high rate, if possible, to hit with shrapnel or by breaking through bunkers and bunkers.
      Just against armored personnel carriers and pillboxes there are "Attack" missiles.
  13. Lontus
    Lontus 10 November 2021 05: 42
    +5
    For all the sympathy for the BMPT concept, its current implementation with 30 mm cannons is very clumsy and unsuccessful.
    Need 57mm high ballistics.
  14. Pavel57
    Pavel57 10 November 2021 23: 28
    +1
    And in what division do BMPTs fall on the staffing table?
  15. Lyman1982
    Lyman1982 11 November 2021 02: 19
    -4
    Where are the armats ??? Again, they snatch nonsense on the basis of the old t64
  16. S. Nikolaev
    S. Nikolaev 11 November 2021 18: 35
    +1

    BMPT mod. 1941 g.
    History, of course, does not tolerate the subjunctive mood, but if there were enough of them instead of the T-26 bunches, how would it all turn out?