Ancient cultures of our country: tribes of the Bronze Age

128
Ancient cultures of our country: tribes of the Bronze Age
Petroglyphs of the Kalbak-Tash tract. It is interesting because here you can also see images of the Neolithic era (VI-IV thousand years BC) - figures of deer and goats; the Eneolithic and Bronze Age (III-I millennia BC) - this is the most numerous group of petroglyphs, among them there are female and male figures, as well as chariots, pack bulls and drivers. There are scenes of war, people with weapons in the hands, in particular with bows, fantastic predators and deer. There are also more recent images, that is, people have used this place for thousands of years! (http://www.liveroads.ru)

Third parent Kronid generation of people speaking
Copper created, nothing with the generation is not similar to the former.
With spears. There were those people mighty and terrible. Loved
Terrible affair Ares, violence. Bread did not eat.
Stronger than iron was their mighty spirit. No one approach
He did not dare to them: they had great power,
And neoborny hands grew on the shoulders of powerful.
They had copper armor and copper dwellings,
Copper work done: no one knew about the iron.
Hesiod. "Works and Days". Hellenic poets of the 1999th-1963rd centuries BC. Epic. Elegy. Yambas. Melika / Resp. ed. M.L. Gasparov. - M .: Ladomir, XNUMX. Verified with the XNUMX edition. Translated by V.V. Veresaev.


And this is how they may have been created ... Ill. Pierre Joubert (1910-2002)

Material story our homeland. Having visited the ancient caves, today we again go to the wide expanses of our Motherland to get acquainted with the archaeological finds of the Bronze Age discovered there. And let's start again with the tribes of the Volga region, where the first needles, punctures, awls and small knives made of copper appeared in the III millennium BC. NS. But the metallurgy of bronze was mastered by its inhabitants only by the middle of the XNUMXnd millennium BC. NS. And what are we seeing? Small tribes that had been scattered until then and isolated from each other immediately began to closely communicate, and with communication came the merger and the formation of the first cultures, such as Srubnaya, Andronovskaya, Abashevskaya and a number of others. And already on their basis, the formation of modern peoples began - the Kazan Tatars, Chuvash, Mordovians, Mari, Udmurts and others.


This is how the ancient people moved from place to place in search of still not frightened animals, and then ... more and more often they began to settle permanently. Fig. Pierre Joubert (1910-2002)

Forest cultures and steppe cultures ...


The studies of the Bronze Age in this area were started again by the same Kuibyshev expedition, which we have already talked about. She managed to find out that in the northern, forest part of the Volga region, and on the Lower Kama at that time, there were tribes engaged in hunting and fishing, who had Neolithic people as their ancestors. In the south, tribes of pastoralists roamed, while the interpenetration of these cultures took place, which complicated the work of archaeologists.




In the Bronze Age, people who lived in the forests already knew how to make dugout boats. Fig. Pierre Joubert (1910-2002)

North of the Kama: log houses


Here, near the numerous tributaries of the Kama and Volga, the expedition found several dozen settlements of the Bronze Age. These settlements had no fortifications. If there were any clashes between their inhabitants, then, according to A.I. Soloviev, strictly regulated, in the form of single combats and until the first blood or the first killed. There were few people and people were valuable! It is interesting that large houses were discovered here (or rather, what was left of them, of course!), With an area of ​​50 to 200 square meters, moreover, a complex log structure, with many hearths and a number of auxiliary outbuildings. In the center of the so-called Balym site, an altar was found - an elevated platform: with a campfire at the foot, more than 10 square meters, and a dozen smaller bonfires that surrounded this elevation on all sides. Six human burials with things were also found here. Obviously, this place was very honorable and not everyone was buried here. It is interesting that these tribes did not pile mounds over the burials, so no other burials were found here. But they found: various decorated vessels, copper slag, fragments of crucibles, tools made of flint and bronze, as well as many bones of domesticated animals.


They caught fish in different ways. Fig. Pierre Joubert (1910-2002)

Log burials in the south of the Volga region


Having gone to the South, to the Saratov steppes, we will meet there with the burials of the Timber culture. They buried their dead under the mounds, and turned the graves themselves into a kind of log cabins. These tribes were engaged in pastoral cattle breeding, but they also knew fire-slash farming. In the middle of the II millennium BC. NS. individual tribes of the Srubna culture separated from the expanded Lower Volga group of tribes and went to the Azov, Donets, Northern Donets regions, and further to the Dnieper, while others left to the north in the Samara and Ulyanovsk regions. Later, already at the turn of the II and I millennia BC. e., the tribes of the Andronov culture, which formed in southern Siberia, also came close to this territory.


The burial of people in that era was of exceptional importance. Finding an ancient burial place for an archaeologist is always a gift of fate. Fig. Pierre Joubert (1910-2002)

A very interesting settlement on the Suskan River


Back in 1951-1952. on both banks of the Suskap River - one of the Volga tributaries, an ancient settlement was found, the excavations of which gave a lot of interesting information. It was located on a cape, but from the side of the coast it already had a low rampart and a moat. That is, the inhabitants of the village, and on both banks, had to be afraid of enemies, which is why they fortified it and chose a place washed by the river.


Arrowheads in the Bronze Age were still made of stone, especially if they were used for hunting. For example, there were some among them who inflicted deep chopped wounds. National Museum of Denmark, Copenhagen


Bow from Holmegard. It was about 170 cm long and 6 cm wide. Belongs to the Mesolithic era. National Museum of Denmark, Copenhagen

Only two houses were found on both banks, but what kind! During the excavations, a black rectangular spot 22 meters long and 12 meters wide was found, and at first a pit was dug here 1,2 meters deep, and clay was laid on the floor. Many bones of domestic animals and shards of broken pottery were found in it. Here, more than 30 pits were found for supporting pillars, which ran in two rows along the length of the house, as well as along the walls and in the center of the building. That is, the basis of the roof was a gable log structure supported by these pillars.


Reconstruction of a dwelling from a Bronze Age settlement on the Suskan River. Reconstruction by architect G.B. Shchukin. Illustration from the publication "In the footsteps of ancient cultures", M., 1954

In the center it was also supported by pillars connected by longitudinal beams. Then the logs were covered with brushwood, and the brushwood was covered with earth. It was necessary to cover 270 square meters in this way, that is, the people who lived in this house were good builders, and in addition, they had bronze axes, teslas, chisels, and knives.


Bronze arrowheads. VIII-VII centuries. BC NS. State Historical Museum. (Photo by Anton Bazhin)

Inside the house, they found one large hearth and many small ones, apparently belonging to separate families. About 150 people could live in such a house, so they needed a lot of food. But where did they store the perishable food then?

"Refrigerator of the Bronze Age"


It turns out that its inhabitants had their own refrigerator! And right in the house. On the clay floor near the exit, archaeologists found a black spot about 1 meter in diameter. They began to excavate it, although it was very difficult. And only at a depth of 5 meters the secret of the "pit" was revealed. There were found walls, braided with rods, a log bottom and earthen vessels with the bones of domestic animals. Moreover, at the very bottom, even a whole skeleton of a piglet was found. That is, it was a cold storage pit for food! And these pots were lifted with the help of ropes passed through special holes made at their edges! In the second settlement opposite, they also found exactly the same pit, even deeper.


Manufacturing of bronze tools. Fig. Pierre Joubert (1910-2002)

Ancient sedentary horse breeders of the Volga region


At the same time, the people who lived here already knew how to ride a horse. This is evidenced by the bone cheekpieces found here - the details of the bit. But they were not only horse breeders, but also farmers, as evidenced by the finds of stone grain bearers. It is interesting that the development of steppe lands due to dense turf was beyond the power of the inhabitants of these houses. But they thought of burning forest plots for fields, the land on which was cultivated with stone hoes, but they already used bronze sickles for the harvest.


Bronze ax. First third of the 1st millennium BC NS. State Hermitage. It is one of the museum objects displaced as a result of the Second World War. Until 1945 he exhibited at the Museum of Prehistory and History in Berlin. (Photo by Anton Bazhin)

However, they also ate by hunting (bones of wild animals and birds were found) and, of course, fishing, as evidenced by the found fish bones, including the bones of large pikes. They beat them with bone harpoons, and the small one was already caught with nets with clay weights. Well, the nets themselves were woven, most likely, from strong horsehair.


And this is how our ancestors caught big fish! Fig. Pierre Joubert (1910-2002)

And, of course, the inhabitants of the village were engaged in various crafts. Earthen vessels are very skillfully fashioned and covered with whimsical ornamentation, there are many items made of stone, since their metal was obviously imported and therefore was expensive. As before, axes, arrowheads and even knives were made of stone. Although, most likely, all these tools were viewed as a relic.

Where have you gone and why?


The most interesting thing is that the results of the excavations unambiguously indicate that the inhabitants of both villages left them quite peacefully. There were no traces of fires, whole and valuable things trampled into the mud while fleeing or fighting, and most of the finds are blanks or defective and broken tools. All valuable things, and first of all metal, they took with them. But that's why they left these habitable places and where they went later, alas, is unknown.

Excavation today ...


Excavations of the Volga region continue today. For example, in July-August 2015 archaeological research was carried out by an expedition of the Penza State Pedagogical Institute named after V.I. V.G. Belinsky, who studied the Razhkinsky burial ground of the 1956rd-1957th centuries. n. NS. Work here began back in XNUMX-XNUMX, but continues to this day - this is the "slow science" of archeology.


Objects and archaeological diaries from the excavation site of the Razhkinsky burial ground 1956-1957. Penza Regional Museum of Local Lore. Photo by the author


But these are the skulls and bones ... Photo by the author

First, 19 burials were found there, then, already in 2012 - 10 more. In 2015, the excavation area was 645 square meters. m., and 32 burials were found. Moreover, the men do not have funeral equipment, but the women - with a large number of jewelry: beads, beads, breast plates and bracelets. It is believed that these burials belong to the initial period of the history of the Mordovians-Moksha.

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  1. +5
    15 November 2021 18: 19
    Good evening. Vyacheslav Olegovich, a plus for you: a variety of materials and we have to choose: who likes which material.
    Hope you remember your regular reader?
    1. +8
      15 November 2021 18: 29
      This is true in V. O. Various publications. In the Armament section, he has an unambiguous Plus, but in history ... Sometimes I want something more significant than a minus.
      1. +4
        15 November 2021 18: 50
        Quote: vladcub
        Sometimes I want something more significant than a minus.

        Who likes what: who is the priest, who is the priest, who is the priest's daughter, the devil said, took off his panties and sat in the nettles!
        1. +5
          15 November 2021 19: 00
          Vyacheslav Olegovich, I think that Vladkub is interested in the priest, who is in the second place and least of all the priest himself.
          And I wonder what the devil said after he sat in the nettles?
          1. +7
            15 November 2021 19: 08
            It’s quite natural. I am of normal orientation
          2. +9
            15 November 2021 19: 38
            Quote: Astra wild2
            ... I wonder what the devil said after he sat in the nettles?


            Nizya, prohibited by site rules! am
            1. +4
              15 November 2021 19: 40
              I thought about it.
          3. +2
            15 November 2021 20: 55
            Quote: Astra wild2
            And I wonder what the devil said after he sat in the nettles?

            Then he just shivered, gritted his teeth and scraped under his armpits.
        2. +5
          15 November 2021 19: 07
          Give him my sympathy. Although, fig knows him like the devil's ass and Faberge? Possibly bulletproof
          1. +1
            16 November 2021 05: 36
            Quote: vladcub
            Give him my sympathy. Although, fig knows him like the devil's ass and Faberge? Possibly bulletproof

            The devil never took off the Sabatons! laughing
        3. +12
          15 November 2021 19: 29
          The reasons why they left the settlements lie on the surface.
          Slash and burn agriculture.
          The average lifespan of any settlement, whether it be the Srubnaya, the Andronovo, the Sintashta, or the Abashevka cultures, is 50-70 years.
          During this period, all soils, more or less suitable for this type of farming, were planted within a day's radius of travel (adjusted for population growth), and it became economically more expedient to simply move the entire settlement to a new place, already explored.
          Therefore, they are often also two-layer with an interval between settlements in the same 50-100 years.
          Study the works on paleosoil science, there are many of them on the Bronze of the Volga region and southern Siberia, but the original burial does not come across, and palynologists can tell a lot from cores. And they say.
          1. 0
            16 November 2021 10: 27
            Quote: AllBiBek
            The reasons why they left the settlements lie on the surface.
            Slash and burn agriculture.
            The average lifespan of any settlement, whether it be the Srubnaya, the Andronovo, the Sintashta, or the Abashevka cultures, is 50-70 years.
            During this period, all soils, more or less suitable for this type of farming, were planted within a day's radius of travel (adjusted for population growth), and it became economically more expedient to simply move the entire settlement to a new place, already explored.
            Therefore, they are often also two-layer with an interval between settlements in the same 50-100 years.
            Study the works on paleosoil science, there are many of them on the Bronze of the Volga region and southern Siberia, but the original burial does not come across, and palynologists can tell a lot from cores. And they say.

            As for the Andronovites, the representatives of this culture were rather more cattle breeders. To a greater extent, settlement took place in the floodplains of rivers or along the shores of lakes. The south of Western Siberia (the territory of the Altai Territory), the landscape of the region is practically unchanged, the east is forest and mountainous, in the middle part of the forest-steppe (in the floodplains of the Ob rivers and tributaries, tape mixed forest), in the western part of the steppe. The climate was drier. In the floodplain of the Ob River, there are enough meadows for grazing and limited farming.


            Gryaznov, M.P. The history of the ancient tribes of the Upper Ob from excavations near the village of Bolshaya Rechka / M.P. Gryaznov // Materials and research on archeology of the USSR. - 1956. - No. 48.
            Gryaznov, MP "Stages of development of the economy of pastoralist tribes in Kazakhstan and Southern Siberia in the Bronze Age" Brief reports of the Institute of Ethnography. 1957

            Kiryushin, Yu. F. Migration processes in the Upper Ob region during the Eneolithic and in the Bronze Age / Paleodemography and migration processes in Western Siberia in antiquity and the Middle Ages: abstracts of reports. int. scientific. conf. / otv. ed. Yu. F. Kiryushin. - Barnaul: ASU Publishing House, 1994.
            Kiryushin, Yu. F. About the cultures of the Bronze Age in the forest-steppe Altai / Siberia in the past, present and future / Novosibirsk, 1981. Vol. 3.
        4. +2
          15 November 2021 19: 37
          "Who likes watermelon, and who likes pork cartilage." (S. Mr. Paratov) hi
    2. +5
      15 November 2021 18: 40
      Quote: Astra wild2
      constant reader?

      I remember, of course. I just finished and uploaded material on the history of the costume for moderation. It contains a lot of interesting things for women in general and you in particular.
      1. +6
        15 November 2021 19: 02
        Thank you very much for this. I will read with the girls
  2. +2
    15 November 2021 18: 24
    this is the "slow science" archeology

    But DNA geneology, on the contrary, is a "fast" science. With almost mathematical precision, it will determine any genus - where it came from and where it went ...
    1. +9
      15 November 2021 18: 37
      Quote: Xlor
      But DNA geneology, on the contrary, is a "fast" science.

      If we mean Klyosov's comrades, then this is not a science, but a profanation, designed for a completely unprepared consumer of information. Simply put, a deception, and a malicious one.
      If we are talking about population genetics, then there are difficulties. It's so simple to answer the question of who, where and where not to answer. Often, the data of linguistics and archeology come into conflict with the data of genetic analysis and it is not at all easy to link them.
      1. 0
        15 November 2021 19: 30
        If I mean Klyosov companions, then this is not science
        I do not mean Klesov, but DNA geneology, as a pure science. And this is a very exact science ...
        Often, the data of linguistics and archeology come into conflict with the data of genetic analysis and it is not at all easy to link them.
        The data of linguistics and archeology are secondary, you can even ignore them. Especially linguistics ...
        1. +6
          15 November 2021 21: 20
          Quote: Xlor
          Linguistic and archeological data are secondary,

          Klyosovsky nonsense. Historical linguistics is a mathematically exact science and is now striding forward with leaps and bounds. Archeology is also a completely objective science. Genetics is the same science and has no advantage over other sciences.
          Unlike real science, Klosovskaya husk is just an attempt to unambiguously determine the color of a variegated carpet by pulling just one thread out of it. What can a bookworm say about the contents of a book it has gnawed through?
          Klyosov's DNA hegeology is an abomination and nonsense. Study population genetics and do not listen to this jester and profanator.
          1. 0
            17 November 2021 08: 53
            Historical linguistics is a mathematically exact science and is now striding forward by leaps and bounds. Archeology is also a completely objective science. Genetics is the same science and has no advantage over other sciences.


            There are no mathematically exact sciences other than mathematics itself. The results of all these disciplines are probabilistic in nature (Gaussian curve) and sometimes it is not easy to determine the permissible limits of extrapolation.
            And as for archeology ... the field for interpretation is too wide. 10% facts and 90% speculation.
      2. +7
        15 November 2021 20: 37
        If I mean Klyosov companions

        The individual confuses Klesov's DNA genealogy with genetic genealogy, a section of population genetics. Which has nothing to do with the issue under consideration. Archeogenetics is engaged in it.
        1. +6
          15 November 2021 21: 33
          Klesovtsy minus, as much as DNA is wrapped up.
          1. +4
            16 November 2021 06: 17
            as much DNA is wrapped up.
            She is already a spiral, how much more ?!
    2. +7
      16 November 2021 05: 43
      Quote: Xlor
      this is the "slow science" archeology

      But DNA geneology, on the contrary, is a "fast" science. With almost mathematical precision, it will determine any genus - where it came from and where it went ...

      And if in essence, what does it give?
      They picked up (albeit true Aryans) an orphan (albeit a black one) on a long hike, then DNA genology lovers found his remains or the remains of his descendants. What I will not describe further!
      DNA research is one of many keys, not a panacea of ​​truth! Life is usually an interesting thing.
  3. +10
    15 November 2021 18: 29
    Liked the fishing scene. It is believed that the author of the picture has absolutely no idea how this process is carried out with the help of a prison. smile
    The fisherman's task in this case is to press the fish to the bottom, and not to raise it over his head.
    However, if a fisherman was like me, at about twelve years old, then, probably, he could behave like that. I remember that with the help of an aluminum fork I managed to find a small burbot and also raised it above my head with the wild cry of a real hunter in the womb. laughing The burbot, of course, flew off the fork, flew well to the shore, and not back into the water, it would be a shame.
    And so, the fish nestles to the bottom and gently gets it by the gills.
    By the way, I wonder what kind of fish. I have not seen such in our rivers. Colleagues, who will tell you?
    1. +8
      15 November 2021 18: 44
      hi
      By the way, I wonder what kind of fish. I have not seen such in our rivers.
      More likely not a river, some kind of sea, something from the tuna species, judging by the tail ... And the place of fishing, more like the sea coast resembles the Bay of Biscay, perhaps. The author of the drawings comes from there.
      1. +8
        15 November 2021 18: 54
        Quote: parusnik
        The author of the drawings comes from there.

        Exactly!
      2. +3
        15 November 2021 19: 14
        Lyosh, greetings. Thank you for telling me where to look for this fish. And then Misha and I were perplexed: in which river did he find her?
    2. +5
      15 November 2021 18: 48
      Judging by the tail, black marlin. laughing
      1. +6
        15 November 2021 18: 58
        Unknown breed, tuna and marlin have no such mustache smile
        1. +3
          15 November 2021 19: 20
          At first I wanted to attribute this view to the work of Sapkowski, but I respect his work too much.
        2. +4
          15 November 2021 19: 22
          So I immediately thought about tuna, but gave up this thought. I'm not sure if it can be found in the surf. I came to the conclusion that the author of the picture, maybe, is an expert in the field of the material culture of the ancient world, but he is poorly versed in matters of fishing.
          1. +2
            15 November 2021 20: 17
            What kind of fishing can there be in the Bay of Biscay? Sardines, anchovies are some other little thing. laughing It looks like there is a flounder. laughing
        3. +2
          15 November 2021 20: 22
          In the same way, Montaigne judged the Indians by stories, what can we take from Joubert? laughing
      2. +8
        15 November 2021 19: 03
        laughing - This is Jazelle. Frenchwoman. I recognized her. On the leg.
        - No, this is not Jazelle. Jazelle was a brunet, and this one is all white. (C)
        laughing
        1. +6
          15 November 2021 19: 14
          "Takes, sniffs, Giselle? Not Giselle! Throws." (Libreto for the production of the ballet "Giselle" performed by the State Opera and Ballet Theater of Makhachkala)
        2. +3
          15 November 2021 19: 34
          Alexey, where does this quote come from?
          1. +5
            15 November 2021 20: 09
            where does this quote come from?
            hf "Formula of love"
        3. +7
          15 November 2021 19: 40
          No, this is not Jazelle. Jazelle was a brunet, and this one is all white. (C)
          laughing

          Now Praskovya Tulupova has taken refuge in front of the Indian Embassy drinks
      3. +3
        15 November 2021 19: 56
        Judging by the butt too. laughing Shpakovsky already wrote about this once.

        Faithful "Marlin" Mod.336.



        Someone about what, and someone about the bath, it's me about myself. wink
        1. +2
          16 November 2021 05: 56
          About the bath! laughing
          Izhevsk has released a "fish" line of pneumatics: Murena, Katran, Barracuda!
    3. +3
      15 November 2021 18: 51
      Misha, good evening. "What kind of fish" is my first first thought: this is a TS "collective" image of a fish and have nothing to do with our rivers.
      Although, maybe some of the comrades know better the fish species. What if there is an ichtheologist among us?
      1. +4
        15 November 2021 20: 12
        The grandmother of this fish has clearly "sinned with the diver"
        I really liked the illustrations, I discovered Joubert
      2. +1
        15 November 2021 20: 17
        "The collective image of a fish"!
        It smelled like pre-revolutionary Odessa Privoz! Thank you, Slava!
        1. +1
          15 November 2021 21: 12
          There is nothing to thank for
          1. 0
            15 November 2021 21: 15
            No, Slava, seriously! Cool phrase!
    4. +6
      15 November 2021 18: 54
      Liked the fishing scene.

      And I liked the photo of the ax. This is our Anton's work, isn't it? I mean a photo, not an ax wassat )))
      And the fish is very similar to a large sea bass.
      1. +4
        15 November 2021 20: 05
        Quote: depressant
        This is our Anton's work, isn't it?

        Of course!
      2. +2
        15 November 2021 21: 37
        In general, I like axes. And this one is no less than others. Moreover, with its own history of movements.
        1. +1
          15 November 2021 22: 07
          And what Russian man doesn't like an ax? Russia sometimes took up the axes in full force wassat )))
          1. +2
            15 November 2021 22: 10
            This "fast driving" became famous. And how many things have not yet been odes composed and hymns sung!
            1. +2
              15 November 2021 22: 16
              And how many things have not yet been odes composed and hymns sung!

              Definitely the Bronze Age!
              I found it there! The jaw dropped! I am correcting it. And not some bronze tsatzki, but in the sphere of public relations. And tomorrow on the forum I will boredly state my enthusiasm to the displeasure of visitors wassat )))
              1. +2
                15 November 2021 22: 19
                Then you definitely need to gain strength.
                1. +3
                  15 November 2021 22: 40
                  Are you cheating?)))
                  The thing is that the Bronze Age has not gone anywhere, it is with us, it has only acquired more comfortable outlines, but ... in general, tomorrow! And today - my melancholy passed, for which Vyacheslav Olegovich is to blame, I got into a conversation, and I burst out. And everything bad is gone, as it was not.
                  1. +3
                    15 November 2021 22: 57
                    If you can laugh, I will always do it.
                    Remember how in the vaudeville "Lev Gurych Sinichkin" he was recognized as a favorite artist - the sale of pickled apples was going well.
                    1. +2
                      15 November 2021 23: 07
                      And what is the reincarnation of vaudeville? "On the Stage" in 1956, with Merkuriev, Yanshin? Or more recent ones? Who hasn't played it! In my opinion, everyone checked in. But the main thing is the victory of good over evil)))
                      That is why I love operetta.
                      1. +3
                        15 November 2021 23: 16
                        I also love operetta very much. And this vaudeville is most of all liked by the sample of 1956.
                      2. +1
                        15 November 2021 23: 27
                        Probably, the time was like that. Only 11 years after the war. People wanted joy. And there were artists who knew how to carry it. I remember that I already told how I turned on the New Year's concert - well, something like a light, after the chimes. Either Kirkorov, or someone else is the same and the corps de ballet. The artists were so twitching and tense that I was tired with them. I felt my muscles ache right away. Now having fun like this wassat )))
                        By the way, because of this, she did not watch the last episode of "Lucifer". Looked a little, and gave up. They "dance" there like that, that's it.
    5. AUL
      0
      16 November 2021 09: 54
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      By the way, I wonder what kind of fish. I have not seen such in our rivers. Colleagues, who will tell you?

      Very similar to baasa!
  4. +2
    15 November 2021 18: 32
    Q. Oh, and where is "FIRMENNOE": "but it was so"?
    You are an author with "branded" features
    1. +2
      15 November 2021 20: 52
      Quote: vladcub
      and where is "FIRM": "but it was so"?

      "You will have a pipe and a whistle." Nekrasov, it seems ...
      1. -1
        15 November 2021 21: 06
        Q. Oh, I'm not a great expert on Nekrasov, but in my opinion it's not him.
        Better ask Vic. Nika
      2. +1
        15 November 2021 21: 34
        "Here's to you, buddy," Prague "!
        And here's to you, my friend, and "Warsaw"! "(C)
  5. +2
    15 November 2021 18: 36
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, thanks for the illustrations: they are informative and bright.
    Р
    S
    К
    Who is Pierre Joubert?
    1. +1
      15 November 2021 18: 48
      Quote: Astra wild2
      Who is Pierre Joubert?

      A very interesting French artist. He was very fond of drawing scouts, created a lot of drawings with scouts for a magazine, illustrated books ...
    2. +2
      15 November 2021 18: 50
      Who is Pierre Joubert?
      Yes, one dude, like McBride.
      1. +1
        15 November 2021 18: 53
        I'm not familiar with such a "dude"
        1. +3
          15 November 2021 18: 56
          My Beautiful Stranger! Well, is it really that hard to look at the Internet?
          1. +3
            15 November 2021 19: 04
            This is not available, but what is the Internet? wink
            1. +1
              15 November 2021 19: 16
              Seryozha, don't demonize the situation
              1. +2
                19 November 2021 19: 43
                Affected by the transferred "pseudovirus" !!! Passion for everything terrible !!!!
                In a word, I miss you, vagabonds !!! wink
          2. +1
            15 November 2021 19: 20
            So be it. I will look
            1. +2
              15 November 2021 19: 32
              "Persuaded, devil tongued!" (WITH)
            2. +3
              15 November 2021 20: 08
              I will look

              For example: revelry in the ancient manner of Joubert. laughing

              1. +2
                19 November 2021 19: 44
                And without you, Morkot !!!! Especially !!!!!!!
                1. +1
                  19 November 2021 19: 52
                  Mercy is for komleman, but you are clearly following in the footsteps of Mikola-Pani Kokhanka. laughing
                  1. +2
                    19 November 2021 19: 56
                    I'll get better, but ... compare education, eh?
                    1. 0
                      19 November 2021 20: 13
                      "We sow ourselves everywhere,
                      So that lazy people, rotozeans,
                      There is dust in the fields "(c)
                      Haha !!!
            3. +1
              19 November 2021 19: 57
              Faith !!!! I will not just look, but I will study !!!!!!
          3. +3
            15 November 2021 19: 39
            Daniel McBride is an American actor, but what does Pierre Joubert have to do with it? If you remember, I asked about him
            1. +2
              15 November 2021 19: 53
              I'm actually talking about Angus McBride ...
          4. +2
            15 November 2021 21: 40
            It came to mind: what if knowledge is systematized for the general public? "Ancient world history". And your glossary. The History of Rus has its own vocabulary.
            1. +2
              15 November 2021 21: 52
              It has already been.
              "General history, processed by" Sariticon "".
              1. +2
                15 November 2021 22: 01
                Yes. But another hundred years have already passed. However, "If you overcook it - I'll blow it up" is still relevant.
              2. +2
                19 November 2021 20: 04
                Whose monipulation? In principle, I understand, but ... Anton! This is a miracle ?????
        2. +5
          15 November 2021 19: 01
          It is necessary. It is necessary to get acquainted. At least? In absentia.
      2. +2
        15 November 2021 19: 02
        My friend, who told me yesterday "for Faith"? laughing
        1. +1
          15 November 2021 19: 25
          I'll tell you now. In this case, you are the object of manipulation.
          1. +2
            19 November 2021 20: 00
            Anton! Classics are our everything! Especially ... "Smokey". I repeat, I repeat. I repeat. I miss you !!!!
  6. +2
    15 November 2021 18: 57
    Of course, you are a talented Mr. Shpakovsky publicist. But no one can explain to me why on the site of the battlefield - the main finds are arrow axes and other rarities - stone ones. And most of them
    1. +3
      15 November 2021 21: 10
      But no one can explain to me why on the site of the battlefield - the main finds are arrow axes and other rarities - stone. And most of them

      As Arkady Isakovich said "Deficit".
      At the famous Ötzi found in the Alps, they found a bunch of stone products, arrowheads, a knife, etc., but only one copper ax.
      From wiki
      It can be assumed that the copper axes in 3000 BC. NS. could belong to people from the upper strata of society, they also served as weapons. This gives reason to think that the "ice man" was either a group leader or a warrior.
      .
      1. +1
        15 November 2021 22: 55
        You repeated, but Wikipedia described everything correctly
        1. 0
          15 November 2021 23: 05
          You repeated

          Excuse my curiosity, but what did I repeat?
  7. +3
    15 November 2021 19: 16
    Comrades, I've already seen these illustrations somewhere
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. +3
    15 November 2021 19: 32
    "why did they leave these habitable places" I think the answer is in the question itself: "habitable places". If there are no animals left in the area to hunt and. The answer is obvious: they left in search of food.
    1. +2
      15 November 2021 19: 50
      why did they leave these habitable places "I think that the answer is in the question itself:" habitable places. "If there are no animals left in the district to hunt and. The answer is obvious: they left in search of food

      Thanks to these travelers, Europe, Iran and India speak Indo-European languages. Actually, the exodus began earlier, with climate change and a decrease in pastures for large herbivores, in the form of the tundra steppe.
      And the domestication of the horse increased mobility, only at first the horse was harnessed to the chariot, and only then saddled. Now there is only one representative of those horses that have not been touched by the selection for breeding horse breeds, this is the Przewalski's horse.
      1. 0
        23 January 2022 13: 42
        The two Americas also speak Indo-European
  10. 0
    15 November 2021 19: 33
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Well, is it really that difficult to look at the Internet?

    A very accurate information resource. Like American films ...
    1. 0
      15 November 2021 20: 44
      If you have not yet established yourself as a person, let me explain: Wikipedia is a good tool for the task of a search vector.
      1. 0
        15 November 2021 20: 53
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        good tool for search vector task.

        Karasho said maladie! Dzhigit savsem!
      2. -1
        15 November 2021 20: 53
        Wikipedia is a good tool for the search vector problem

        If you get your knowledge from Wikipedia, then, judging by your answers, you have fun in your head. I can feel it even through the monitor ...
        1. +2
          15 November 2021 21: 10
          If you feel something through the monitor, then it's time for you to see a psychiatrist.
  11. +5
    15 November 2021 19: 57
    The most interesting thing is that the results of the excavations unambiguously indicate that the inhabitants of both villages left them quite peacefully.


    So where did you go and why?
    Bronze gave tremendous advantages in the cultivation of land, deforestation for plowing, in the protection of dwellings and the fruits of labor. There is much more food than before, when only stone tools were used. There was a population explosion. The dwelling became cramped. Settled. The old people remained in the former. Died out.
    This is one version.
    Second. The house is wooden, could be affected by a fungus. Or couldn't he? Well, it is, by the way.
    The third version, the main one, based on the first one. The demographic explosion due to significant population growth has led to closer contact between communities, the development of common traditions, norms, language of communication and, most importantly, the transfer of skills in the use of bronze from one community to all. And somehow it suddenly became clear that everyone began to depend on the deposits of copper and tin ores necessary for the production of bronze. Numerous communities began to pull together from vast territories of settlement to such nearby regions where deposits were located, in order to either participate in the extraction of the necessary ores themselves and smelt them, or to buy cheaper finished bronze products in places of their production from craftsmen.
    And the latest version.
    Depletion of natural resources. The land became scarce from continuous exploitation, the nearest forests were cut down over time to maintain fire in the hearths, the animals left, and hunting was still important. Yes, and there was no real agricultural technology yet.
    1. +3
      15 November 2021 20: 59
      And somehow it suddenly became clear that everyone began to depend on the deposits of copper and tin ores necessary for the production of bronze.

      It started with copper. And practically the only deposits of NATURAL copper were located in the South Urals. It all started with her. Later it turned out from ore. And the rest is there in bulk.
  12. +1
    15 November 2021 19: 58
    Good evening everyone!
    To survive, a person needs to move. The optimal tribe is 30-50 people. Most people find it difficult to feed.
    The tribe is developing one area, if it is hunters, fishermen or gatherers, this area will soon become scarce.
    The tribe is removed and goes to develop a new site.
    In the latitudes described by the authors, cattle breeding was quite possible for itself, but everything depended on the preparation of fodder for the winter.
    There is no point in talking about agriculture. the available instruments of labor cannot plow the steppe.
    Slash-and-burn farming is already a different level, and even in these latitudes it is risky farming!
    Agriculture implies a sedentary lifestyle. It will come later.
    So that people were fed by their feet.
    The tribe from the tribe settled at a distance of 3-4 day transitions.
    And we must also take into account that the border of the settlement of the tribes is -8 ° С as the average January temperature.
    1. +1
      16 November 2021 10: 38
      Quote: ee2100
      Good evening everyone!
      In the latitudes described by the authors, cattle breeding was quite possible for itself, but everything depended on the preparation of fodder for the winter.
      There is no point in talking about agriculture. the available instruments of labor cannot plow the steppe.
      Slash-and-burn farming is already a different level, and even in these latitudes it is risky farming!
      The tribe from the tribe settled at a distance of 3-4 day transitions.
      And we must also take into account that the border of the settlement of the tribes is -8 ° С as the average January temperature.

      There is a saying in Primorye: the latitude is Crimean, and the longitude is Kolyma. "
      Maybe the feed was not harvested. The Yakuts have horses on free grazing all year round. The thickness of the snow cover 50 cm is not critical. In the Altai Republic, many autotourists note that when approaching the Seminsky pass, conditionally from which the real Altai begins, in the autumn-winter-spring period there are no fewer livestock on the roads (large and small, including horses), grazing.
      If part of the steppe has burnt out, is it easier to plow? Areas for agriculture are not necessarily endless steppe, but also forest-steppe regions, river floodplains with flooded meadows.
      Cattle (cows, with young animals) are not capable of long transitions, unlike horses and sheep.
      1. 0
        16 November 2021 15: 22
        There is no desire to debate "what was and what has become"
        The author clearly defined his work - this is the Bronze Age, the European part of the former USSR.
        This is what I commented on.
        There was a desire to write more about natural intra-tribal selection and closely related relations, but I realized that this was enough.
        Agriculture is already a different, higher degree of development of society.
  13. +2
    15 November 2021 21: 01
    The Kuibyshev archaeological expedition worked in the Kama and Volga basins in 1952-53. According to the expedition's report, she was unable to determine the dates of the settlements discovered in the area. Mskum, what archaeologists were able to do is conditionally define the epochs - the Eneolithic, the Bronze Age, the Iron Age. The reason is simple as a nail - during the excavation there was no radiocarbon dating method for the artifacts.

    Therefore, the accuracy of dating the settlements is still plus or minus one millennium, which is completely insufficient for their ethnic characteristics: until the middle of the second millennium BC. here lived the Slavs, later - the mestizo of the Slavs and the Ugric. In the middle of the first millennium AD, the first Türks - Bulgars appeared here, in the 13th century AD - Tatars.

    PS The first region of our country that entered the Bronze Age was the Balkan-Carpathian metallurgical province (in part of Transcarpathia) - 4 millennium BC, which speaks of its world superiority among all civilizations.
    1. +3
      15 November 2021 21: 47
      PS The first region of our country that entered the Bronze Age was the Balkan-Carpathian metallurgical province (in part of Transcarpathia) - 4 millennium BC, which speaks of its world superiority among all civilizations.

      You have outdated knowledge.
      1. +3
        15 November 2021 22: 08
        Can you distinguish copper from bronze, native copper from smelted and copper age from bronze age?
    2. +2
      15 November 2021 21: 55
      The second time culture of the Bronze Age on the territory of our country is the Kargalin Metallurgical Center (end of the 4th millennium BC), the third time culture of the Bronze Age is Maikop (3rd millennium BC), and only the fourth time is the culture of the Bronze Age. century - Srubnaya culture (2nd millennium BC).

      What is characteristic: the inhabitants of the Balkan-Carpathian metallurgical province were our ancestors the Balkan Aryans (R1a), the inhabitants of the Kargalinsky metallurgical center, the Maikop and Srubnaya cultures - our blood relatives the Black Sea Aryans (R1a-Z93).

      The Black Sea Aryans became the first progressors in the world - during their migrations across Asia, they taught the wild Hutts, Egyptians, Babylonians, Persians, Harappans and Chinese (who lived before that in the Stone Age) copper metallurgy, bronze smelting and its metalworking.
  14. +3
    15 November 2021 21: 12
    In fact, the first thing that interested me, namely: how did the ancestors learn to make bronze? You can forge copper nuggets. However, create a bronze alloy? Even if a piece of copper gets into a firewood fire, the maximum temperature of the environment is 700 degrees Celsius. And the melting temperature of bronze is from over 800 to over 1000 degrees. It means that some extremely flammable materials and something else got into the fire, what gave the alloy - additives, and after the fire died out, an ingot was found. It is not difficult to admit. The ancestors noticed something (they were forced to be so big-eyed), and when they noticed, they used it. Given that, for example, there was a Greek fire, and what it is, now no one can say for sure. This means that there was something similar with bronze. According to some reports, bronze production began as early as the 4th millennium BC. on the territory of Iran. Apparently, from there the ability to smelt it began to gradually spread throughout the Ecumene.
    But this is by no means the main thing that struck me in the Bronze Age)))
    1. +3
      15 November 2021 22: 49
      how did the ancestors learn to make bronze?

      Before that, ancestors learned how to get copper from ore.
      1. +3
        15 November 2021 23: 03
        Some kind of minus players - tihushniki began to clog up with their presence even those parts of the site where they had not appeared before. The process of degradation of the contingent is progressing.
        1. +1
          16 November 2021 08: 23
          Viktor Nikolaevich, what's wrong with you? Should I explain to you that stupidity, like mold, can grow everywhere, by itself and even among smart people. Because stupidity is loved and revered in all ages, it is worshiped, it is exalted. And do you know why? You don't know this! Because even the weakest can look like her protector. And I want to be a defender of at least something. At the same time, the "noble defender" does not take into account that stupidity does not need his protection, and, defending stupidity, he cultivates, becoming infected, his own. And then it comes to petty vindictiveness to everyone. Those who are pointed out to him by his not yet extinct intuition.
    2. +1
      16 November 2021 10: 30
      Quote: depressant
      how did the ancestors learn to make bronze?

      If you work with native copper on bronze, you automatically go out without even getting molten copper, the melting point of bronze is lower.
      Native copper is formed as a result of the reduction of oxidized ores, if you take a piece of such copper, not massive but a grid, dendrites, it will contain "copper green" ore and heat up for subsequent forging, then under certain conditions the ore with copper will melt at a temperature below the melting temperature of copper , while the ore will often contain the necessary additives to obtain bronze, due to which copper was reduced, usually it is arsenic, the first bronzes are arsenic, tin is rare and only then they learned to add it, perhaps somewhere it was in the ore, and arsenic is generally impossible add to copper, only to the ore before smelting, and it is often already there. They learned how to process sulphide ores already having vast experience in metallurgy.
  15. 0
    15 November 2021 23: 12
    There are a few things that I wanted to be specific, but not with this superficial pitch.
    Where did Homo sapiens come from? We are told about the Paleolithic and Neolithic, as some milestones in the development of mankind, so what?
    Does this clarify something? No!
    What is the difference between Neolithic man and modern man? Nothing at all.
    T.N. historians like shpakovsky will drive this blizzard!
    The fact that our society resembled through the so-called. "bottlenecks" and the lazy know. But about this in the office of silence!
    1. +1
      16 November 2021 06: 10
      Quote: ee2100
      But about this in the office of silence!

      "The neck effect in history and Russia". Petr Zolin - article from 2010. It contains tons of links to materials on this topic.
  16. +1
    16 November 2021 10: 31
    What have I discovered for myself, immersed in the study of the Bronze Age?
    There was a division of human activity into types:
    1. Industrial production based on the extraction of ore, the smelting of bronze from it, followed by the manufacture of products.
    2. Agricultural production.

    The use of bronze tools led to the emergence and accelerated development of the so-called "surplus product". People began to produce more than they consumed. In rural production, food products, products from the skin and bones of animals, wood, and in industrial production - ore reserves, bronze ingots, and bronze products became a surplus product.
    And since the deposits were initially less than agricultural. lands, the families of industrialists immediately became richer than the families of villagers, food producers. As a result, the concept of "prestigious wealth" emerged.
    However, in different regions, "prestigious wealth", defined as a prestigious economy, evoked different attitudes towards itself. Central Europe initially respected people who produced more than they consumed. In Scandinavia, there was a so-called gift economy, valuable items were donated, regardless of their value.
  17. 0
    16 November 2021 11: 05
    The origin and development of cities, as I understand it, took place precisely in the Bronze Age. Wealthy families felt an overwhelming desire to separate themselves from the poor. Suppose one such family in a convenient place built a house, luxurious for those times, and immediately others of the same kind were added to them, a prosperous area of ​​the owners of mines, mines, enterprises for smelting bronze and the manufacture of products from bronze and copper arose. And, as usual, less wealthy settlements arose around the rich region - plowmen, livestock breeders, small artisans. This is how cities arose and developed as settlement structures that were most in line with the interests of trade. The purchase and sale of ore and metal products - tools of labor, hunting, protection from enemies, as well as jewelry - received a huge scale. And along with trade within cities, trade between cities immediately appeared.
    The need for accounting and control at high turnover of trading activities led to the appearance of writing, no one hoped for their memory anymore! )))
  18. +1
    16 November 2021 12: 47
    About the Stone Age and now the Bronze Age - it became clearer, but what about the copper one? The most underestimated of the ages, all the time it skips, as if it never happened. Meanwhile, the copper one is the last century of progressive development, then the damned Indo-Europeans burst in and trampled the entire nascent civilization to dust, giving rise to the first dark ages in history. True, no one talks about this, now a more pop catastrophe of the Bronze Age is in vogue.
    1. +1
      17 November 2021 12: 55
      Could you explain what the catastrophe of the Bronze Age consisted of? What are its signs?
      For me, for example, the Bronze Age was a revelation. This is the century when the "prestigious economy" emerged, cities and trade in surplus products emerged. This is an age when a measure of the value of a commodity in the form of a bronze ingot smelted in the shape of a human rib arose, and craftsmen who could weigh an ingot by hand arose - the idea of ​​the weight of what is the general equivalent of the value of different goods arose. This is the first money! I even asked if there were cans in the Bronze Age. But there is no information. But I learned that the first "banks" are known as Greek refectories. They issued a loan at wild interest rates, imposed fines on defaulters, and this was in those days that were discussed here not so long ago, but none of the "experts" about the refectory even mentioned, and this despite the fact that the Greeks always had external debts - through borrowing!
      It remains to be asked whether slavery was in the Bronze Age.
      1. 0
        17 November 2021 13: 06
        Here, I asked and found:

        The phenomenon of slave labor appeared in ancient societies as soon as they moved to a sedentary form of life - there is simply no place for slaves in the economy of gatherers or nomads. But as soon as the tribes had territories and armed conflicts began between them, captive enemies appeared who could be turned into slavery, forcing them to do dirty work while the master was busy with war, mining or taking a break from these labors. At that stage, slavery was in a certain sense progressive: if the prisoners were not turned into slaves, they would simply be killed. Slave labor became a powerful engine of progress for the totalitarian societies of antiquity.


        That is, there was slavery in the Bronze Age.
      2. 0
        13 February 2022 11: 37
        The famous invasion of the peoples of the sea, which ruined the first globalization in history, when 4 superpowers divided industries and concluded an eternal peace that had not been violated for centuries. I assume you are aware. About the same constantly crackle in tyrnyta and on TV. But the catastrophe of the copper age is forgotten.
  19. +1
    16 November 2021 17: 15
    Look at how the man Yezi was dressed and then put pictures of people in the article. In Arkaim .... And this is another song not for realists.
  20. AML
    0
    20 December 2021 22: 10
    Quote: Konnick
    And somehow it suddenly became clear that everyone began to depend on the deposits of copper and tin ores necessary for the production of bronze.

    It started with copper. And practically the only deposits of NATURAL copper were located in the South Urals. It all started with her. Later it turned out from ore. And the rest is there in bulk.

    And nothing that there is much more bronze underfoot than one deposit of native copper? Bronze is copper with impurities and not necessarily tin. And it melts easier and easier to mine. But no, the ancestors were looking for pure copper, which is still not clear how to melt, because the melting point of pure copper is higher than the melting point of bronze.
  21. AML
    0
    20 December 2021 22: 12
    Quote: depressant
    Here, I asked and found:

    The phenomenon of slave labor appeared in ancient societies as soon as they moved to a sedentary form of life - there is simply no place for slaves in the economy of gatherers or nomads. But as soon as the tribes had territories and armed conflicts began between them, captive enemies appeared who could be turned into slavery, forcing them to do dirty work while the master was busy with war, mining or taking a break from these labors. At that stage, slavery was in a certain sense progressive: if the prisoners were not turned into slaves, they would simply be killed. Slave labor became a powerful engine of progress for the totalitarian societies of antiquity.


    That is, there was slavery in the Bronze Age.


    According to official statistics, today there are more people in slavery than at any other time in history.
  22. 0
    1 November 2022 07: 21
    Good evening, explain to me, please, on the basis of which chem. elements was bronze smelted? Where in Russia are these ores located? What is the smelting process? I just know bronze is fragile. And how can you chop with a bronze ax?
    The photo in the article shows not a bronze ax, but a knife for skinning (removing the skin of an animal in the process of cutting). A similar knife, but made of steel, was in our family in the 60s. It had an eye for a finger for ease of use. Such knives were also used by furriers.

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