Military Review

Genocide and occupation

185

Since 1941, a regime of genocide of the population was established in the occupied territories of the USSR, both on the basis of nationality and others. In principle, the entire population of the USSR was perceived by the Nazis as inferior and deprived of basic human rights. And the policy of its destruction was carried out firmly and steadily, often with the use of accomplices from among other nations.


Prisoners of war


A word to an eyewitness:

“For the first two weeks the Germans did not feed the prisoners. Then, for about a week, they were fed like this: an officer on a cart loaded with rotten meat drove into the camp and threw pieces of meat. A hungry crowd of prisoners of war pounced on the meat soiled in the mud, and the officers and soldiers accompanying the cart opened fire on the crowd from machine guns and submachine guns. After that, they began to feed the prisoners with unrefined buckwheat, as a result of which diseases of rectal gangrene spread massively in the camp. "

Dulag 142 held up to 80 people, the daily death rate reached 000 people a day, at least 200 people were shot in the camp, a significant number during transportation and outside the camp. So, 1500 cadets were shot on the territory of the city prison, and other prisoners were also executed there. It is believed that up to 50 thousand people died in the camp. In principle, the scale is quite similar to other camps, like the infamous Uman pit. What to do with the prisoners, the Germans planned initially - as part of the Ost plan:

“All sentimental objections should be dropped. We need to rule these people with iron determination ... In military terms, we must kill three to four million Russians a year. "

And they did it without deviating one iota. They did not forget to rob beforehand - among other things, shoes were confiscated from all the prisoners. Torture was actively practiced:

“Among them is the corpse of a man in military uniform, the right hand was severed with some sharp object, the chest was shot in several places. The second corpse of a young woman is barefoot, with the severed phalanges of her left hand, with signs of military uniform (military uniform buttons). Another corpse of a man, stripped naked, with a severed left leg and right arm. In another pit, the corpse of a man in a gray khaki cap was found. Above the brow arch there was a bullet hole protruding to the back of the head, the chest was bloodied. "

Everything was done so that no one survived the captivity, the atrocities slightly decreased only in 1942, when it became clear that the war was dragging on, and the prisoners could work. But even then, the death rate in the camp was from one hundred people a day.

Civilians


The civilian population was exterminated less planned, and no less brutally:

“They put them facing the pit and shot them with machine guns or machine guns. About 3500 people are buried in this pit. In another branch of the Verkhniy Sudok ravine in the upper part of the plateau, 370 people were buried in three pits. Nearby, at the bottom of the ravine, 830 people were buried in one large pit. To the right of this place, at the edge of the ravine opposite the alley leading to Sovetskaya Street, three more pits with the remains of 568 people were discovered. "

In addition to planned executions aimed at destroying those who could participate in the Resistance, there were also gratuitous atrocities to intimidate the civilian population:

“… In August 1942, along Lesnye Sarayev Street, near Matryona Mikhalkina's house, at 16 o'clock, from a car painted black, without windows, groans and screams of male voices were heard. Three armed Germans were standing near the car, after a while these Germans released a huge dog from the car, all covered in blood - chest, neck, muzzle and paws, which tore its victim to pieces. Mikhalkina confirmed that such incidents were frequent, especially in relation to the partisans. "

In one relatively small town of the RSFSR alone, about 15 civilians were killed. This figure was established by the Government Commission, the real number of victims may be large, the Germans themselves did not keep accurate records, and some of the graves of the dead were destroyed, including by blowing up mass graves. At the same time, the reasons for the execution could be completely different - from working in the Soviet authorities and to unwillingness to go to work in Germany, or even poorly cleaned boots of the occupier. To this should be added the forced removal of the population and post-war migration, which led to the physical impossibility of any accounting.

Jews


In addition to the genocide of the Russian, the Jewish genocide was carried out, and its goal was the complete destruction of the Jews without any exceptions. Another people subject to complete destruction were the Gypsies:

“Since December 26, 1941 in Bryansk and Ordzhonikidzegrad, a special team 76 has settled. counted 2 corpses of slain old men, women and children. "

The last executions were carried out literally on the eve of the liberation of the city. Even in the fall of 1943, amid the growing military catastrophe of the Reich, extermination and genocide remained the most important task for the Germans. The launched conveyor of death will not be stopped until the very end of the war. In total, in a small region of Russia alone, about 19 Jews and Gypsies were exterminated. An accurate count is again impossible, people from other regions were also moved to the ghetto, although it was Jewish organizations that did a tremendous job to establish the names of their victims. The work is much deeper than the names of the victims of the genocide of other nations.

Performers


That war in the people's memory is strongly associated with the Germans, but this is not entirely true - in addition to the Germans, there were also punitive forces of other nationalities. The Hungarians left a bad memory:

“When they arrived in Khvoshchevka on March 21, they immediately began to set fire to the huts. And the winter of 1942 was harsh. There was so much snow that some of the huts were completely covered, only one chimney was visible, from which smoke came out if the stove was heated. On the same day, the Magyars gathered all the old men and tall boys and drove them out of the village in the direction of Khinel. There, in the field, they were all shot. First, they stripped naked, then they shot from a machine gun. Then they stabbed and cut them with bayonets. "

Noted, including the use of BOV:

“The German fascists, who sent the 6th Hungarian str. Division to the Suzemsky region to fight the partisans, during a raid on May 16 of this year. in the village of Ustar, Suzemsky district, Oryol region, the entire village was burned to ashes, 170 houses and buildings, including 2 schools and one mill, brutally tortured 70 people of the elderly, women and children, including 20 people burned in the fire and gassed 19 people. "

Finns:

“They didn’t believe one woman who gave them two eggs and, having searched her house, they found another egg. For hiding one egg, her house was burned down, where all her property was burnt. "

Ukrainian nationalists and even ... immigrant landowners:

"Sonderführer Voldemar Bischler appeared in the USSR in February 1942 near Vitebsk as commandant of the Abwehr command 210."

Bishler Vladimir Avgustovich, a German father, a Russian mother, left Russia in 1918 after the loss of the estate, and returned as one of the most fierce punishers, gathering the same rabble around him, and the Bryansk and Smolensk regions were filled with blood:

“As a result, Bishler's detachment committed the following atrocities: 37 settlements of the Kletnyansky district and 4 Dengubovsky s / s [council] of the Dubrovsky district were burned; kolkhoz farms' yards were burned in 1591; 127 civilians were shot; 3233 Soviet citizens were taken to hard labor in Germany [...]. On the territory of 41 settlements, not a single living soul was left, no buildings and livestock. Everything was destroyed [...] "

The Germans trusted his "hunters" with something that even the hardened executioners did not want to get dirty in.

We know a lot about war as a confrontation between armies, a lot is written about battles and technology, but that war was also like that. In a dimension where there is not a drop of humanity, and what the Germans and their allies did has nothing to do with anything human. And all this is mentioned much less often, which ultimately leads to the emergence of “Bavarian lovers”. And we must remember: those who came then were not human.

The article uses materials from the collection “No statute of limitations. Crimes of the Nazis and their accomplices against the civilian population during the Second World War: documents and materials ”. Bryansk region.
Author:
Photos used:
https://www.bragazeta.ru/
185 comments
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  1. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 10 November 2021 05: 12
    +17
    At one time I delved into all these cases to understand the purpose and scale of the crimes of the Nazis and their accomplices ... I can say that for many executioners it became an everyday job.
    During the day, they enthusiastically destroyed people, in the evening they had fun filling their throats with schnapps ... some executioners turned into natural sadists for whom the very act of murder and unlimited power over helpless people brought them pleasure.
    A special category is the leaders of the Einsatz groups ... almost all of them were with higher education ... doctors of science and part-time executioners of hundreds of thousands of people ... each had a family, had their own children, probably loved cats and dogs ... in their minds does not fit how such an educated person behaves like an insatiable bloodthirsty.
    What is the reason for this split personality?
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 10 November 2021 06: 07
      +15
      Power over the lives of the absolutely powerless corrupts. And if this is still pumped by the flawed ideology of one's own national superiority, then it turns out to be a complete chaos, and the more educated you are, the more you believe in it.
    2. evgen1221
      evgen1221 10 November 2021 12: 46
      +6
      The reason is propaganda. It still works flawlessly. The main thing here is the intensity and quantity of all possible irons, and voila, the ideological sadist is ready.
  2. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 10 November 2021 05: 32
    +14
    The German occupiers and their accomplices are simply not people.
    But they came themselves and did it by force of arms, and the Soviet government and the people of the USSR fought with them and won, but what about the creeping occupation of "labor" migrants? invitation the current government?
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 10 November 2021 06: 41
      +4
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      how to deal with the creeping occupation of "labor" migrants

      Well, probably something like this:
      Come on guys violently and roughly
      We are inspired by the swastika in the night
      We will also see how your corpses
      They dance tango in a gas oven.
      How good, how fresh the roses would be,
      How cheerful, how wonderful the Russian forest,
      The last journey along Via Dolorosa
      The SS division goes into the distance

      This is the "creativity" of our contemporaries. Do you approve?
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 10 November 2021 06: 58
        -2
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        The German occupiers and their accomplices are simply not people.
        If you had bare your eyes and read these words of mine, you would not have written such nonsense:
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        This is the "creativity" of our contemporaries. Do you approve?

        No, I don't approve. Do you approve of the current policy of mass "labor" migration in Russia?
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 10 November 2021 07: 57
          +9
          Yes, the Germans just started with the same questions that you asked. And those whose "creativity" I here allowed myself to quote, also ask them. You are at the very beginning of the path, and I showed you its end. Glad you didn't like it.
          As for the politics you asked about, it is not politics at all. This is the market. And it is completely controlled and regulated by the state in the interests of the ruling class. You do not like? You just belong to the wrong class.
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U 10 November 2021 08: 15
            +8
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            Yes, the Germans just started with the same questions that you asked.

            What the hell are you talking about? Do you have the same thing as inviting migrants in Russia to replace the population of Russia with humiliating indemnities combined with the economic depression in Germany? Do you think it is the same thing?
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            You are at the very beginning of the path, and I showed you its end.
            What you can show by substituting practically opposite phenomena is already clear.

            Quote: Trilobite Master
            As for the politics you asked about, it is not politics at all. This is the market.
            Oh, yes, and whoever did not fit in is not needed, and therefore you propose to die out in silence, otherwise Nazism and all that.

            Quote: Trilobite Master
            And it is completely controlled and regulated by the state in the interests of the ruling class. You do not like?
            However, you like it.
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 10 November 2021 09: 11
              +7
              I already realized that the history of the Third Reich is not your strong point. But even you should, in theory, know that all their troubles began with nationalism. First, they cleared out their territory, then they set about their neighbors.
              Well, as for the market ... And then you, as in 91, are mistaken, life has not taught you anything. "You" means all of you, not just you personally. You don't see your own nose farther.
              Ask yourself why and who needs these migrants in Russia and questions to the migrants themselves will disappear.
              Well, about
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              However, you like it.

              They made fun. I have never hidden that I am a supporter of socialist ideas, so I cannot like "this" by definition. laughing
              Apparently, I just know a little more about capitalism and socialism than you do, hence the reaction - very smart, that means bourgeois. laughing
              1. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U 10 November 2021 09: 30
                +3
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                I already realized that the history of the Third Reich is not your strong point. But even you should, in theory, know that all their troubles began with nationalism. First, they cleared out their territory, then they set about their neighbors.

                Certainly not a strong point, as well as not yours. Because Nazism, not nationalism, won in Germany not because of the migrants invited by the German government.

                Quote: Trilobite Master
                Well, as for the market ... And then you, as in 91, are mistaken, life has not taught you anything. "You" means all of you, not just you personally. You don't see your own nose farther.
                What did you teach that? You then issue an answer to this claim clearly:
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                Oh, yes, and whoever did not fit in is not needed, and therefore you propose to die out in silence, otherwise Nazism and all that.


                Quote: Trilobite Master
                Ask yourself why and who needs these migrants in Russia and questions to the migrants themselves will disappear.
                I will remind you:
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                what about the creeping occupation of "labor" migrants at the invitation of the current government?
                If you had bothered to read a little more carefully, you would have seen the question to the POWER.

                Quote: Trilobite Master
                Apparently, I just know a little more about capitalism and socialism than you do, hence the reaction - very smart, that means bourgeois.
                Well, if there is as much "more" as about Germany in the interwar period, then oh.


                Quote: Trilobite Master
                They made fun. I have never hidden that I am a supporter of socialist ideas, so I cannot like "this" by definition.
                Hats off out of solidarity hi , but this does not mean at all that I have to reread your comments in order to know and remember your political views.
          2. Hypertension
            Hypertension 10 November 2021 15: 09
            +11
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            Yes, the Germans just started with the same questions that you asked. And those whose "creativity" I here allowed myself to quote, also ask them.

            This is how the "Russian card" beats with the "trump card of Nazism / nationalism" ... As soon as the Russian expresses dissatisfaction with the replacement of him, the Russian, on his land, trilobites creep out and begin to poke fascism.
            And it is not taken into account that we are talking about the survival of the Russian ethnos in their native land, the land of their ancestors.
            How can you compare the ideology of the Third Reich about the "superiority of the German nation" with the desire of the Russians to preserve their ethnos, their culture? With a desire not to see crowds of Muslims praying and mass fights of migrants in your hometown? With a desire to protect your children, wives, mothers from a criminal element?

            You are confusing warm with soft. Do you do it on purpose or out of ignorance - a question ...
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 10 November 2021 15: 53
              -4
              To begin with, get used to the idea that while these people are needed here, they will be here, not alone, so different.
              And then think, if you know how, who needs these people and why.
              Well, if you managed to add two plus two, then congratulations. Now you can go and fight for the Russian people - work instead of them, take their jobs, pushing them out of the Russian land. Small salary? You do not want? Well, then you have two choices - either to accept and still work instead of them for a beggarly wage, or to make the employer pay more. There are no other options. Someone has to work.
              1. Hypertension
                Hypertension 10 November 2021 16: 23
                +8
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                First, get used to the idea that as long as these people are needed here, they will be here

                Have you already got used to it? Do you learn Central Asian languages? And then, you know, already at some metro stations in Moscow, signs are duplicated in Uzbek and Tajik. No matter how Russian inscriptions are removed, and you will not get lost.
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                Well, then you have two choices - either to accept and still work instead of them for a beggarly pay

                "Beggarly" wages were relevant 10 years ago. Migrants have awakened appetites and now they demand more and more. And the government is not against:
                In the Russian Federation, it is necessary to improve conditions for labor migrants. Sergei Katyrin, President of the Russian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, said this in an interview with Rossiyskaya Gazeta.

                Quote: Trilobite Master
                or force the employer to pay more.

                How? Trade unions are not the same these days. If you go on strike, you will be fired without pay. Or the same migrants will be hired. There are not many tools for influencing the employer today ... Capitalism ... Yes, and employers have recently become more and more non-Russian ...
                But you did not answer: why do you equate dissatisfaction with migrants with Nazism? This, by the way, is a favorite trick of Russophobes - just screaming about "Russian fascists".
                1. Trilobite Master
                  Trilobite Master 10 November 2021 17: 16
                  -2
                  Quote: Hyperion
                  Have you already got used to it?

                  As with the law of universal gravitation. In the labor market, migrants have a number of advantages over us, so the employer prefers them in many areas of work. Hiring them is beneficial to the ruling class, so the law is on their side. Everything is according to Lenin.
                  Quote: Hyperion
                  Migrants have awakened appetites and now they demand more and more.

                  Nonsense. They work as before for a pittance.
                  Quote: Hyperion
                  Trade unions are not the same these days.

                  So create those. Organize. The right to strike is provided for by the Labor Code. People don't go? It means we are satisfied.
                  Quote: Hyperion
                  Why do you equate dissatisfaction with migrants with Nazism?

                  Discontent is not yet Nazism, but a confident step in its direction. Think about what methods you can use in the fight against migrants (in the absence of state support) and you yourself will understand what they will lead to. Why the state will not support you - see above.
                  1. Hypertension
                    Hypertension 10 November 2021 17: 30
                    +4
                    Quote: Trilobite Master
                    Think about what methods you can use in the fight against migrants (in the absence of state support) and you yourself will understand what they will lead to.

                    Yes, at least not to buy anything from them, not to conclude deals with them, not to use their services. Where it leads? To the outflow of migrants to their homeland.
                    1. Trilobite Master
                      Trilobite Master 10 November 2021 18: 35
                      +1
                      Do not buy? laughing
                      A trade union, it seems to me, is easier to organize, people there, at least know each other. laughing
                      And what to do with tens, if not hundreds of thousands, employed at construction sites, in communal apartments and other similar places? How are they? Fire? laughing
                      Okay, you can live without vegetables, fruits, small shops and taverns. It is difficult, not long enough patience, but you can. And the construction sites will stop - what will you say to the equity holders? Who will take revenge in the courtyards?
                      You, apparently, are very young, since such ideas are wandering in your head. At the age of twenty I realized that such projects are a utopia ...
                      Any other options? wink
                      1. Hypertension
                        Hypertension 10 November 2021 19: 14
                        +5
                        But how did Russia live without migrants for a thousand years? How do the Japanese get along on their own?
                        You, apparently, are too old ... Therefore, in your comments everything is about humility, getting used to and reconciliation. Yeah ... "Grandpa is old - he doesn't care"(with)
                        Not buying if there is at least some alternative is at least.
                        Construction projects will stop ... Have you ever wondered why they are building so much in our country? Given that the population is declining significantly. Maybe migrant workers are already building for themselves? For your children and grandchildren?
                      2. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 10 November 2021 19: 23
                        -1
                        Better try to organize a union ... smile hi
                      3. Hypertension
                        Hypertension 10 November 2021 19: 28
                        +3
                        Carry at least a gas can with you in the evenings ... hi
        2. Flank
          Flank 10 November 2021 15: 51
          -8
          There can be no other migration policy. If you do not bring in migrants, everything will stop (and then collapse). It is better to lead this process, since we cannot win.
          1. Hypertension
            Hypertension 10 November 2021 16: 25
            +3
            Quote: Flanke
            If you don't bring in migrants, everything will stop (and then collapse).

            Something before the import of migrants, nothing collapsed.
            Quote: Flanke
            Better lead this process

            Tongue wagging - do not roll bags ...
            1. Flank
              Flank 11 November 2021 08: 18
              -2
              Before the import of migrants, the USSR collapsed.
              1. Hypertension
                Hypertension 11 November 2021 12: 23
                +1
                Because of the shortage of migrants or what?
                1. Flank
                  Flank 11 November 2021 13: 20
                  -5
                  Partly. Social programs and an eight-hour day were too costly for the collapsed economy. But that's not the point. The USSR collapsed and in the new economic model it is impossible to survive without Gaster.
                  1. Hypertension
                    Hypertension 11 November 2021 13: 24
                    +3
                    Quote: Flanke
                    Social programs and an eight-hour day were too costly for the collapsed economy.

                    But that was then - in the 90s. Now has Putin raised him from his knees?
                    It's not about the economy, but about the desire of some livestock to get the maximum profit at the lowest cost.
                    1. Flank
                      Flank 11 November 2021 15: 29
                      -3
                      These brutes are the world's banks, actually, not builders. It's about the economy. You will not be able to pay the interest and therefore have to cut costs. If they are not reduced, then gradually, of course, the price will rise to fantastic proportions, but there will be no construction projects because no one will buy. And krants. Under capitalism, you cannot exist without gaster, this is death. And the maximum profit has nothing to do with it.
                      1. Hypertension
                        Hypertension 11 November 2021 16: 47
                        +2
                        Quote: Flanke
                        Under capitalism, you cannot exist without gaster, this is death.

                        That's it ... But the Japanese don't know about it ...
                      2. Flank
                        Flank 12 November 2021 08: 34
                        -2
                        Don't they know for sure?
      2. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 10 November 2021 07: 18
        -4
        I approve for such modernists a piece of land a meter wide and three meters deep.
        Today Europe is once again consolidating for another march to the east ... the instigators, as always, are the United States and the Anglo-Saxons ... and this time the Poles, Ukrainians, Balts, etc. will become cannon fodder ... that is, where Russophobia is most developed.
        1. zenion
          zenion 10 November 2021 14: 53
          +8
          The father-in-law said that part of Ukraine along the Dniester and Bug rivers was given to the Romanians and it was Transnistria. And they began to drive the Jews into one locality not far from Odessa. There was the village of Pishchanka and the Pishchanka quarry next to the village. There were about a thousand people there. They were not fed or given water. The Romanians said - why, they will die anyway. Once, at dusk, a Romanian soldier came down to their quarry and said, get away from here, in the morning the Germans will be here and they will kill everyone. At first, everyone thought that they wanted to provoke them. But the soldier said that he was one of the workers and those who were guarding them Romanians would not shoot at them. About 200 people fled from the quarry and some went into the forest, some were sheltered by villagers. The next morning a German team arrived. They built Jews under the wall of a quarry and detonated explosives. All died under the sand that crumbled on them. Some survived, whom the Germans noticed, those were shot by the western Ukrainians. The residents of the neighboring village saw this. Then they told the special units of the Red Army what was there. Shovels dug up the dead there and there were more than 600 people. The inhabitants of Pyschanka said Western Ukrainians are worse than tower dogs. Bendera's people killed everyone and Ukrainians, including if they said that they worked on a collective farm, tried, taught children.
      3. Catfish
        Catfish 10 November 2021 07: 52
        +9
        Hi Mikhail hi Where did you find these verses?
        Ram's well-fed muzzle immediately came out of the monitor with the sound of forged boots:
        Free path for our battalions
        Free way for assault columns!
        Millions look at the swastika with hope,
        Day will break through the darkness, he will give bread and will.

        But the moneybags will bring the country to a new explosion with their policy.
        1. NDR-791
          NDR-791 10 November 2021 08: 11
          +3
          Quote: Sea Cat
          But the moneybags will bring the country to a new explosion with their policy.

          Do you think that yard patrols in cities are not the beginning? For me, it's already quite myself. The authorities behind the fence are calm, the people are slowly uniting themselves, without a command from above. And this is already an indicator.
          1. Vlad Baryatinsky
            Vlad Baryatinsky 10 November 2021 12: 05
            +3
            Quote: NDR-791
            The authorities behind the fence are calm

            Let me disagree with you.
            "POWER", bzdit, alarming to her. They smell "KROVASOSSY", PAYMENT, not far off!
            1. NDR-791
              NDR-791 10 November 2021 12: 09
              +5
              Quote: Vlad Baryatinsky
              Let me disagree with you.

              Why not, they were concerned, of course. Only in the other direction. Instead of bringing these Gaster to order, the police are checking the legality of creating such a "courtyard militia". And this was done in the first place. And with Gaster, only later, and then if the wave is raised by the media, but no, they sit quietly.
        2. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 10 November 2021 08: 16
          +3
          Quote: Sea Cat
          But the moneybags will bring the country to a new explosion with their policy.

          It's a pity Mikhail does not seem to understand this, or pretends that he does not understand.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 10 November 2021 08: 33
            +7
            He understands everything perfectly. The point is that one extreme is no better than the other. But the Kremlin does not understand this, and most likely they do not give a damn about everything.
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 10 November 2021 08: 37
              +4
              Quote: Sea Cat
              He understands everything perfectly.

              Perhaps, however, he considers even the question of this a manifestation of Nazism. Is not it?
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 10 November 2021 08: 59
                +6
                ... he considers a manifestation of Nazism


                You don't, I don't, and none of us can answer for the others.
              2. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 10 November 2021 09: 30
                +4
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                Is not it?

                Not this way. A step towards Nazism, which you will certainly reach if you walk in this direction.
                You are deliberately pushed there so that they don't think about anything else. Don't you understand?
                1. Vladimir_2U
                  Vladimir_2U 10 November 2021 09: 35
                  -1
                  Quote: Trilobite Master
                  Not this way. A step towards Nazism, which you will certainly reach if you walk in this direction.

                  In principle, I answered this claim, but I repeat:
                  Quote: Vladimir_2U
                  how to deal with the creeping occupation of "labor" migrants at the invitation of the current government?
                  If you would have bothered to read a little more carefully then they would see the question to the POWER.
                  1. Trilobite Master
                    Trilobite Master 10 November 2021 09: 59
                    +6
                    If you asked what to do with the authorities, I would simply remain silent. But you asked what to do with migrants, and even in the context of this article. You don't have to do anything with them. With power - yes, but with them - no. They will leave themselves if they are no longer needed. Or they will dissolve among us, become like us, which is, in general, the same thing. But people like us do not need them for business, and therefore for the authorities. We need people as they are, that's all. And as a cheap labor force, and as a valve for releasing social tension. As one of the answers to the question "who is to blame" along with the Americans, and corruption.
        3. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 10 November 2021 08: 18
          +1
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Hi Mikhail hi Where did you find these verses?
          Ram's well-fed muzzle immediately came out of the monitor with the sound of forged boots:
          Free path for our battalions
          Free way for assault columns!
          Millions look at the swastika with hope,
          Day will break through the darkness, he will give bread and will.

          But the moneybags will bring the country to a new explosion with their policy.

          Greetings, Constantine! hi
          Fatbags to do with it? Poverty, like wealth, is a changeable state, and, to be honest, I've seen more shit from people who are not rich, but endowed with some kind of minimal power. Until the people themselves begin to relate normally to each other, no changes in the top will help anyone, the evil in this country is not from them. IMHO.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 10 November 2021 08: 31
            +8
            Hi Albert!

            "Who dines a girl, he dances her" (c)
            Who benefits from the invasion of guest workers in this country? After all, not me and not "Pasha from Uralmash".
            It's easy for you to say, your conversation with Muslims is generally short, but here the law protects this husk, but in theory it should have us.
            I may be wrong about something, but every year I like the situation in the country less and less.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 10 November 2021 09: 00
              +4
              Who benefits from the invasion of guest workers in this country? After all, not me and not "Pasha from Uralmash".

              It is clear that owners of small businesses
              It's easy for you to say, your conversation with Muslims is generally short, but here the law protects this husk, but in theory it should have us.

              If you are talking about Israel, then with the Arabs (Caucasian Muslims, namely the Adygs, Chechens and Kabardians, who moved to the BV after the Caucasian wars, are fighting for Israel) the conversation is very difficult - they also file complaints in courts and shoot them for "Terrible Look" does not work.
              If about Koasnodar - there is no such problem, tk. local Muslims behave culturally.
              I may be wrong about something, but every year I like the situation in the country less and less.

              Like everyone else, prices go up, incomes go down.
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 10 November 2021 09: 08
                +2
                If you are talking about Israel,


                And why suddenly on "you"?


                Like everyone else, prices go up, incomes go down.


                I'm not just talking about that.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 10 November 2021 09: 16
                  +6
                  And why suddenly on "you"?

                  Sorry, I'll be on you drinks
                  I'm not only talking about this

                  So the mentality of the population is "Mama Do not Cry" laughing Such a fitting in of those who are poorer, weaker, etc. I have not met you anywhere, even among the Palestinian Arabs. And the structures that govern the country are flesh of flesh and blood of the blood of this population. They were not imported from anywhere, they grew up here, left the Komsomol (not only the party wink), passed the crucible of the 90s and, in fact, the result fellow
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 10 November 2021 09: 19
                    +4
                    Yes, there are always problems with the population. I don’t want to get into this jungle, well, to hell with him, and it’s so nauseous and there’s no way to see it.
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 10 November 2021 09: 29
                      +7
                      Quote: Sea Cat
                      Yes, there are always problems with the population. I don’t want to get into this jungle, well, to hell with him, and it’s so nauseous and there’s no way to see it.

                      Come on, Konstantin, that's good in Russia - just go outside, look at local women and the mood immediately rises yes And everything becomes indifferent, I want to multiply and multiply, multiply and multiply fellow drinks
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 10 November 2021 10: 48
                        +3
                        It's a deal then. smile Only it is too late for me to reproduce, the age is not the same. laughing
                      2. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 10 November 2021 11: 05
                        +5
                        "But the process itself" (c) laughing
                      3. Catfish
                        Catfish 10 November 2021 11: 49
                        +5
                        Well, if in a dry corner, yes, lean against a warm wall ... then we still wow! laughing
              2. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 10 November 2021 11: 11
                +7
                Quote: Krasnodar
                It is clear that owners of small businesses

                Greetings Albert.
                Large ones too. Construction holdings, chain hypermarkets, and the same Russian Railways actively uses them. And what is cheap and angry. You can throw it on the sly, it's also fun.
                I remember when I asked Anton why not hire normal, literate people, he quite rightly remarked that “normal” people won't work for that kind of money. It all comes down to the question of price.
                Business needs them, in principle, anyone.
                And yes, with past us. smile
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 10 November 2021 11: 20
                  +6
                  Greetings, with the past! drinks hi
                  We were born on a significant date, on the anniversary of the Great October Revolution, which threw off the rotten hereditary elites and created new ones, but not so numerous and not so awesome laughing
                  I agree - to the whole business, but this is the case everywhere in the world. And the problem is not in the gaster - they need to be properly controlled and everything will be the way.
                  1. Trilobite Master
                    Trilobite Master 10 November 2021 12: 42
                    +1
                    Yes, the fact of the matter is that no one needs control over them. Rather, the absence of this control is needed, so it is not and will not be.
                    Well, who needs to introduce these Arkharovites into civilized space, why? These are expenses, they will be more expensive and obligations to them will have to be fulfilled, social sphere, again, this-and-so ... Nobody needs this.
                    And how can then "popular anger" be directed at them, if people suddenly see that "these", in fact, are the same people, and not just "kalya-malia" at a construction site or in a warehouse of some kind.
                    And so why: declare to them that they are livestock and treat them like livestock, so they will behave like livestock, which, in fact, is required. Everyone is happy.
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 10 November 2021 15: 13
                      +4
                      Quote: Trilobite Master
                      that
                      And so why: declare to them that they are livestock and treat them like livestock, so they will behave like livestock, which, in fact, is required. Everyone is happy.

                      The fact of the matter is that people must be treated humanly - work visas, social services (only compulsory medical insurance, this requires special legislation), etc.
                      But. As long as we in Russia treat each other in a bestial manner, as we do now, no government will help us. Not in this matter, not in others.
                      1. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 10 November 2021 16: 02
                        +2
                        Yes, alas. Unfortunately.
                    2. Hypertension
                      Hypertension 10 November 2021 16: 35
                      +3
                      Quote: Trilobite Master
                      And how then can the "people's anger" be directed at them, if people suddenly see that "these", in fact, the same people

                      The same people, only Muslims. For whom you are unfaithful, and all your property "rightfully" belongs to them. You, by God, either do not understand anything in this situation, or are deliberately misleading.
                      1. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 10 November 2021 17: 32
                        0
                        Do you have a personal grudge against Muslims? Are you weak? Can't protect yourself? Accept Islam - you will be yours for them.
                        Anticipating your question, I will answer: I don’t need it. I'm alright. The Tajik janitors greet me, the owner of the cafe, an Azerbaijani, meets me as a friend, they greet me at a Georgian bakery and make discounts.
                      2. Hypertension
                        Hypertension 10 November 2021 17: 46
                        +6
                        Quote: Trilobite Master
                        Do you have a personal grudge against Muslims? Are you weak? Can't protect yourself? Accept Islam - you will be yours for them.

                        While I can. But there are more and more of them, and less of us. And the Muslim culture is alien to me. I don't want to be one of them. It won't work. Those Russians who accept Islam - one fig - are outcasts for the "indigenous" Muslims. Which is fair.
                        Quote: Trilobite Master
                        Tajik janitors greet me

                        Today they say hello, but tomorrow ... they may not say hello ...
                        Quote: Trilobite Master
                        in a Georgian bakery

                        Have Georgians become Muslims long ago?
                      3. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 10 November 2021 18: 44
                        +2
                        Come on ... Muslims, Orthodox Christians, Buddhists ... My daughter-in-law goes to the datsan, so what?
                        Be a human, live like a human, respect the people around you and you will be respected and no one will touch you. And if you shout at the crossroads, nationalist slogans - you will receive a turnip regularly, but then do not be offended. smile
                      4. Hypertension
                        Hypertension 10 November 2021 19: 02
                        +4
                        Quote: Trilobite Master
                        Be a man, live like a man, respect the people around you and you will be respected and no one will touch you.

                        In Chechnya, Tajikistan, Azerbaijan, too, for the time being, everyone lived like people, respected each other and no one touched anyone ... And the slogans sounded good. International! Friendship of peoples ... And then for some reason the Russians from these republics partly fled from there, and partly were killed. And now elements of Chechnya and Tajikistan are already in Russian cities ...
                      5. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 10 November 2021 19: 21
                        +2
                        So the nationalists ruined it all. On your own head, by the way. Is it better for them to live without the USSR? Not a fig.
                        In Russia in those years, too, they shouted "enough to feed the republics", everyone wanted to go to the bright capitalist future on their own.
                        Okay, I'm tired of something today. Thanks for the discussion. Unfortunately, I saw nothing but fear on your part, and this is a pity. Fear is irrational and breeds stupidity and cruelty.
                        I am not delighted with the migration policy of our state, but I am aware that under the current system, regardless of who is in power, it simply cannot be different.
                      6. Hypertension
                        Hypertension 10 November 2021 19: 33
                        +2
                        Quote: Trilobite Master
                        So the nationalists ruined it all.

                        And what will prevent these nationalists from doing this already on the territory of Russia, as soon as they gain a critical mass?
                        Quote: Trilobite Master
                        Unfortunately, I saw nothing but fear on your part, and this is a pity.

                        Caution is not fear. The examples of the former republics clearly showed that those who were careful and foresaw the coming events were at least able to get away. Those "daredevils" who continued to play at friendship of peoples lost their heads.
                      7. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 10 November 2021 21: 35
                        +2
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        The same people, only Muslims. For whom you are unfaithful, and all your property "rightfully" belongs to them.

                        ??
                        There is no such thing in Islam.
                      8. Hypertension
                        Hypertension 11 November 2021 12: 53
                        -1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        ??
                        There is no such thing in Islam.

                        You should know that in the Sharia of Allah Almighty, the property of infidels is permissible only in two cases:
                        1. In jihad, during the battle with kafirs.
                        2. During the conquest of the land of infidels, when all their property passes into the possession of Muslims.

                        There is only one little thing left - to declare jihad ...
                        At one time, I had a chance to talk with young Muslims who, having refugee status and receiving assistance from the state, believed that by doing so they “collect jizya from the infidels”!
                      9. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 11 November 2021 14: 20
                        +1
                        Quote: Hyperion

                        There is only one little thing left - to declare jihad ...

                        Jihad is declared in two cases - the liberation of lands that were Muslim and a ban on freedom of religion (observe religion) in the enemy country. In any case, has someone announced Jihad to Russia?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        At one time, I had a chance to talk with young Muslims who, having refugee status and receiving assistance from the state, believed that by doing so they “collect jizya from the infidels”!

                        Well, on the forum there are people, Ukrainian or Russian by nationality, living in Israel, who tells how he makes a fool of Jews for money. So what? Deport him from Israel? laughing
                      10. Hypertension
                        Hypertension 11 November 2021 16: 57
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        In any case, has someone announced Jihad to Russia?

                        Nobody at the moment. But how long is it skillful? A "critical mass" of Muslim migrants will grow, and there a "sheikh" will be found and announced. How do they reason? Allah created the Earth for believers. And state borders, territories are nothing for them. Not for everyone, but such trends have been noticed.
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Well, on the forum there is a person, Ukrainian or Russian by nationality, living in Israel, who tells how he makes a fool of Jews for money.

                        Maz or what? What a little hypocrite. Deporting is still godly. Give it to the Hasidim for re-education.
                      11. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 11 November 2021 17: 08
                        +1
                        For IS - yes, I agree, there are no state borders, the caliphate must embrace the whole world. But they are marginalized.
                        Maza Hasidim? laughing No, better gay community. They will teach him to love the country fellow
                      12. Hypertension
                        Hypertension 11 November 2021 17: 33
                        0
                        ISIS are marginalized, but their thoughts are infectious for today's youth. A la "take everything away and divide it up." They see that Western countries are rich and successful, while their countries are poor and warring. Do you need to somehow justify your worthlessness? There is a way out: "I may be poor and illiterate, but I am a true believer, and they are not."
                      13. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 11 November 2021 18: 14
                        +1
                        Not quite so - their basis is to overthrow the regimes of oil monarchies through the use of recruits from poor Arab countries, and then go to the rest, first to non-Arab Muslims, then to Israel and so on.
                      14. Hypertension
                        Hypertension 11 November 2021 18: 18
                        -1
                        Yes, I'm not talking about IS, but about Islamic youth from other countries. About their thinking, so to speak.
                      15. Ol willy
                        Ol willy 24 November 2021 18: 29
                        0
                        \\\\ liberation of the former Muslim lands \\\\
                        Something like the lands of the Crimean Khanate or the Golden Horde? Muslims remember history
              3. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 10 November 2021 18: 46
                +4
                It is clear that owners of small businesses
                For me personally, as this very owner, they didn’t fall. Neither from the southwest nor from the southeast. Fucked up in due time.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 10 November 2021 21: 39
                  +3
                  Quote: 3x3zsave
                  It is clear that owners of small businesses
                  For me personally, as this very owner, they didn’t fall. Neither from the southwest nor from the southeast. Fucked up in due time.

                  And who works for you? Petersburgers? Guys from the area? Belarusians? Moldovans?
                  From what you sent me, there were ... very southern guys))
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 11 November 2021 07: 30
                    +3
                    We work with my brother, we hire students to do ancillary work. If the number of qualified types of work exceeds our capabilities according to the time frame of the contract, we involve third-party specialists. Highly specialized work (windows, stretch ceilings, electrical installation) - always hired labor
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 11 November 2021 09: 29
                      +2
                      Anton, good morning!
                      All this is clear. The question is, what kind of students do you hire? Russian Petersburgers? laughing
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 12 November 2021 08: 24
                        +2
                        Hi Albert!
                        Yes, locals. That episode with the blacks is accidental.
                      2. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 12 November 2021 08: 44
                        +2
                        Oh well then ok
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 10 November 2021 18: 42
            +3
            I saw more shit from people who are not rich, but endowed with some kind of minimal power
            "Granny syndrome at the checkpoint"
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 10 November 2021 21: 43
              +3
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              I saw more shit from people who are not rich, but endowed with some kind of minimal power
              "Granny syndrome at the checkpoint"

              Oops ... the syndrome of a doctor in a district trauma center laughing
        4. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 10 November 2021 09: 25
          +4
          Hello Uncle Kostya smile
          Verse heard it performed by Veronika Krasheninnikova during a conversation with Yegor Yakovlev about modern fascism. Interesting, I recommend. The lines impressed me and made a memory.
          Quote: Sea Cat
          But the moneybags will bring the country to a new explosion with their policy.

          Not soon yet. In the meantime, the people are being led to such enticements as nationalism - and never at all. I was trying to explain something to Vladimir, I don't know if he will understand ...
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 10 November 2021 10: 41
            +5
            I don’t know if he will understand ...


            If he wants, he will understand. The whole question is that many do not want to understand, it's easier that way.
        5. Vlad Baryatinsky
          Vlad Baryatinsky 10 November 2021 12: 01
          +1
          Quote: Sea Cat

          But the moneybags will bring the country to a new explosion with their policy.

          ALREADY (!), Brought!
          It remains only to "bring the wick."
          At the same time, it may be any "trick" of the AUTHORITIES, or another "feat" of a neoquat migrant, or a stupid trick of an official.
          And like a "snowball", sweeping away EVERYONE in its path, a wave of PEOPLE'S RAGE will rush !!!
          1. The comment was deleted.
    2. ivan2022
      ivan2022 15 December 2021 12: 53
      +1
      An excellent headline that captures the essence of the matter!
      We see that genocide is always associated with occupation or any real loss of sovereignty. There can be no genocide in a country whose government does not rely on external forces. Such a government does not need genocide. Genocide always comes from outside, otherwise it is meaningless.
      If they start wise talk that: "We must be a part of Civilization and its economy" - then the question of the form or intensity of genocide is only a question of its financing and organization.
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 10 November 2021 06: 32
    +12
    In our area, before the occupation, there were about 100 thousand inhabitants. Until now, in terms of the number of inhabitants, the district cannot reach the pre-war level.
  4. Olgovich
    Olgovich 10 November 2021 06: 38
    +16
    The most affected by the atrocities of the Nazis were, along with Belarus, the Russian occupied regions, which lost a terrifying number of population - up to 55% (Smolensk region). Only in one district: 8054 people were hijacked from the Temkinsky district, thousands died at the front, thousands died during the occupation, the current population of the district is less than 6 thousand people. That is, only Was stolen one and a half times more than lives in the area now!

    And here is HOW they did it:
    "Consolidated act of the atrocities of the fascist invaders over Soviet civilians and prisoners of war in the territory of the Smolensk region. January 25 1945":

    - Everywhere there were mass and single shootings of civilians.

    - Application was ubiquitous gallows.

    -The facts of the mass burning of living people - in all districts of the region.

    -Buried people alive (Andreevsky, Kasplyansky, Sychevsky, Temkinsky, Usvyatsky and other areas).

    -Killed citizens poison (Dorogobuzhsky, Ponizovsky, Tumanovsky districts).

    -AT gas chambers (Smolensk, Roslavl).

    -Blew up in minefields (Velizhsky, Glinkovsky, Demidovsky, Slobodskoy, Sychevsky, Temkinsky and other areas).

    -Mass phenomenon was the violent death of civilians from cold and hunger (Sychevsky, Temkinsky, Usvyatsky and other areas).

    - The Germans also committed brutal violence against women in all districts and cities of the region.

    “Mass hijacking of the population to the German rear and to German penal servitude was carried out by invaders from all districts and cities of the region without exception.”

    "Drawing up acts of atrocities and lists of victims of atrocities for a large number of village councils or groups of village councils does not seem possible for the district commissions due to the complete devastation of these village councils and the absence of the population in them ”.


    It is regrettable that in Russia there is still no single list of burned and destroyed villages, in Belarus there is, but not in Russia.

    At the same time, about 8 million Russian civilians were killed, a real GENOCIDE, but only last year it was officially announced that it happened as genocide. Why not 1945, 65,85,95?

    Israel's Yad Vashem Memorial contains data on EVERY Holocaust death.

    In Russia, which has lost many more people, there is still NO monument (Memorial) in Moscow - to all those burned, hanged, shot, poisoned, blown up, buried alive, starved to death and cold, tortured by torture, lost in captivity and in concentration camps to Russian children, women and old people who have undergone the worst genocide in the history of mankind and their names have not been collected.

    And this is wrong ...
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 10 November 2021 07: 20
      +6
      I fully support you in this matter. hi
    2. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 10 November 2021 08: 20
      +4
      Quote: Olgovich
      At the same time, about 8 million Russian civilians were killed, a real GENOCIDE, but only last year it was officially announced that it happened as genocide. Why not 1945, 65,85,95?
      And this is written by a person who considers the First World War more terrible than the Great Patriotic War, and the Vlasovites as fighters for the freedom of Russia.

      Bishler Vladimir Avgustovich, father German, mother Russian, left Russia in 1918 after the loss of the estate, and returned as one of the most fierce punishers, gathering the same rabble around him, and the Bryansk and Smolensk regions were filled with blood
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 10 November 2021 13: 04
        -7
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        And this is written by a person who considers the First World War more terrible than the Great Patriotic War, and the Vlasovites as fighters for the freedom of Russia.

        fool shameless slanderer Lavrov answered exhaustively.
    3. NDR-791
      NDR-791 10 November 2021 08: 27
      +5
      Quote: Olgovich
      And this is wrong ...

      Yes, not right. There is simply a "cold civil war" going on. With the submission and approval of the authorities, monuments to the Vlasovites, whole memorials to General Krasnov, memorial plaques to Mannerheim and Heaven are erected. And after all, someone needs it. I would like to emphasize once again that such actions are impossible without a project approved by the authorities.
    4. bubalik
      bubalik 10 November 2021 15: 36
      +7
      And here is HOW they did it:
      ,,, trade.
    5. Kozak Waltzman
      Kozak Waltzman 10 November 2021 16: 21
      +4
      How can you collect such information? After all, even the approximate figure of human losses in the USSR has not yet been established, and the bones of many soldiers are still scattered throughout the forests and swamps and no one cares about them, except for individual enthusiasts.
      1. Ol willy
        Ol willy 24 November 2021 18: 34
        -1
        Because if you start collecting lists by name, it turns out that the numbers do not coincide a little. On the losses in the Armed Forces, everything is approximately clear, there are few disputes, and on the losses of the civilian population, read Zemskova
    6. Ol willy
      Ol willy 24 November 2021 18: 32
      -1
      Curiously, how did the Germans find time to fight during the intervals between executions and burnings?
  5. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 10 November 2021 08: 38
    +9
    Actually, there was a genocide of the Soviet people and then there was the Victory of the Soviet people.
  6. north 2
    north 2 10 November 2021 09: 29
    +10
    Khrushchev was an ardent supporter of hiding the obvious regime of genocide of the Soviet people carried out in the occupied territories of the USSR by the Germans. After the war, it became obvious that the Germans did not bring policemen from Germany with them. They found them on the territory of the USSR among those whom Stalin did not have time to figure out and send in time to the camps or to the wall before the war. And how many more secular citizens were there in all kinds of divisions of the Waffen SS, who, out of cowardice, were only fit to shoot prisoners and Jews. Yes, after the Second World War, Stalin shoved all these reptiles either into the camps or shot them. And then Khrushchev, those who were not shot, released those from the camps. And went a total oblivion that there were such bastards among the citizens of the USSR who staged the genocide of their own people. No films, no books, no performances about how and who of the Soviet citizens carried out the genocide of their own people. Khrushchev was guided by the philosophy that there can be so many reptiles among Soviet people. Maybe as much as you can!
    The same philosophy was guided, at the expense of their perpetrators of genocide, Russians and Jews, and in the social. countries. Could they have so many bastards there in Hungary, Poland or Romania? How can you!
    Then all this hiding was passed on to the Brezhnev time. It is time, even if belatedly, to correct these criminal hide-and-seek and silences.
    1. Ol willy
      Ol willy 24 November 2021 18: 16
      0
      If anything:
      Comrade Stalin in 1946 declared that the total losses of the population of the USSR in the war - including the civilian population - were only seven million people
      Nikita in the 1950s declared that this number was twenty million.

      And who underestimated?
  7. Ulrich
    Ulrich 10 November 2021 09: 45
    -14
    The Germans are certainly not humans, but purely for comparison - how many German prisoners of Stalingrad returned to their homeland after the war? Out of 90 taken in the boiler itself.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 10 November 2021 11: 03
      +15
      Quote: Ulrih
      The Germans are certainly not humans, but purely for comparison - how many German prisoners of Stalingrad returned to their homeland after the war? Out of 90 taken in the boiler itself.

      And should they have been strenuously fed at the expense of their own soldiers or a starving Soviet peacekeeper?
      1. Ulrich
        Ulrich 10 November 2021 11: 08
        -14
        Walk on thin ice with this answer ... Your answer can be transferred to the opposite side (of the Germans) and justify their actions in relation to Soviet prisoners of war. Especially considering that there were not 90 of them, but several million.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 10 November 2021 11: 13
          +10
          Heh. What were the Germans doing at Stalingrad? Who started the war? As a result of whose actions was there a food shortage?
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 10 November 2021 11: 41
          +9
          Quote: Ulrih
          Your answer can be transferred to the opposite side (the Germans) and justify their actions in relation to Soviet prisoners of war. Especially considering that there were not 90 of them, but several million.

          Soviet prisoners of war were taken prisoner with various stages of dystrophy (70%), and even frostbitten (60%), lousy (almost 100%) and with typhus?
          The main problem of Stalingrad is that we got extremely substandard prisoners.
          Malnutrition was the biggest problem. Since November 26, the food ration in the "cauldron" has been reduced to 350 g of bread and 120 g of meat. On December 1, the bread dispensing rate had to be reduced to 300 g. On December 8, the bread dispensing rate was reduced to 200 g.

          By Christmas, for several days, the front line soldiers were given an additional 100 g. It is known that at the same time some soldiers in the "cauldron" received no more than 100 g of bread.

          In the period from January 1 to January 7, in the LI building, a daily ration of 281 g gross was given per person, while the norm was 800. But the situation in this building was relatively good. On average for the 6th Army, the distribution of bread was reduced to 50-100 g. The soldiers on the front line received 200. It is amazing, but with such a catastrophic shortage of food, some warehouses inside the "cauldron" literally burst with food and in this form fell into the hands of Red Army. This tragic curiosity is connected with the fact that by the end of December, due to an acute shortage of fuel, the freight transport completely stopped, and the riding horses died or were slaughtered for meat.
          © VO. Myths of the Great Patriotic War. Why did the Stalingrad prisoners die?
          1. Ol willy
            Ol willy 24 November 2021 18: 17
            0
            Curiously, were the Soviet prisoners from the boilers in the best condition? When he finished the last horse and began to chew the roots ...
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 24 November 2021 20: 31
              0
              Quote: Ol Willy
              Curiously, were the Soviet prisoners from the boilers in the best condition? When he finished the last horse and began to chew the roots ...

              Such boilers were in 1942 - the same Myasnoy Bor.
              The 1941 boilers were liquidated by the Germans much faster. But the death rate of prisoners was still high. For the Dulags and Stalags, instead of transit camps and prisoner-of-war camps, became extermination camps. One Uman pit is worth something.
  8. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 10 November 2021 10: 59
    +6
    Quote: Tagil1
    Which farm did you all get out of? Long ago, a hundred times already this Zionist craft was caught in lies and fraud. With the same success you can recommend the completely false TV series "Liquidation" - as historical material.

    And what is such a fake to the Zionists? laughing Germany pays reparations to Israelis because of the seized property of the Jews of Europe, not for the physical destruction of Jews
    1. Kozak Waltzman
      Kozak Waltzman 10 November 2021 15: 03
      0
      Who wrote that?
    2. Ol willy
      Ol willy 24 November 2021 18: 18
      0
      How much property did the Jews of Europe have if they are still being paid reparations?
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 24 November 2021 21: 25
        0
        Quote: Kozak Waltzman
        Who wrote that?

        Quote: Ol Willy
        How much property did the Jews of Europe have if they are still being paid reparations?

        About a quarter of German businesses. Well, there are many in France, Belgium, Holland, etc. Plus 40, approximately, Austrian and German medical professors. Plus a third of Berlin lawyers.
        1. Ol willy
          Ol willy 25 November 2021 12: 39
          0
          Why did two percent of the population control a quarter of German business?
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 25 November 2021 12: 54
            0
            Because for about a millennium, Jewish artisans were driven out of the cities by the locals due to competition. Therefore, the most popular professions were those that allowed them to take with them a minimum of equipment of maximum efficiency. Professions - jeweler, shoemaker, tailor. On the way, they could have been robbed - therefore, it is more profitable to take receipts, promissory notes, etc.
            With this approach, the Germans themselves brought up businessmen - mobile and independent. The funny thing is that when solving the problems of competition through outright banditry and ethnic cleansing, people ask themselves the question - why does a small diaspora suddenly take control of everything? At the same time, without asking the question - why 40% of professors in medicine are representatives of the same diaspora. lol
            1. Ol willy
              Ol willy 25 November 2021 13: 07
              0
              Yes, yes, purely competition and nothing more. Let's forget the fact that people used to be hefty religious, and after one Jewish envelope translated certain paragraphs from the Talmud, religious tolerance immediately disappeared.
              Forget about the fact that Jews have long been known for their practices, which incite any local population against them. What else can be said about a people to whom religion prohibits giving at a percentage of its own, but allows the same to the Gentiles?
              And the "success" of the Jews is, of course, the personal merit of each individual individual. "Diaspora", which is not a diaspora, but a parallel society, closed to outsiders, played absolutely no role in promoting its own.
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 25 November 2021 14: 02
                0
                Quote: Ol Willy
                Yes, yes, purely competition and nothing more. Let's forget the fact that people used to be hefty religious, and after one Jewish envelope translated certain paragraphs from the Talmud, religious tolerance immediately disappeared.

                laughing
                Firstly, he did not translate, but distorted, and even added on his own what was not there. yes
                Well, examples of Jewish xenophobia, and there is one, I will give you no problem:
                do not go on the way to the Gentiles, and do not enter the city of Samaritan; but go first and foremost to the lost sheep of the house of Israel;

                Don't give shrines to dogs and don't drop pearls
                yours in front of the pigs so that they do not trample him
                with their feet and turning, they did not tear you to pieces.
                Do you know who the words belong to? Did they raise questions from someone? And all the xenophobia in the Talmud is of this kind - do not get involved, because it is dangerous.
                Quote: Ol Willy
                Forget about the fact that Jews have long been known for their practices, which incite any local population against them. What else can be said about a people to whom religion prohibits giving at a percentage of its own, but allows the same to the Gentiles?

                And what is wrong here? Do you give money to your friends at interest? )) And if strangers ask, then why should we give them money that can work for you, say, after buying an Apartment on a zero cycle (growth in value, rent) just like that? What's the logic?
                Quote: Ol Willy
                And the "success" of the Jews is, of course, the personal merit of each individual individual.

                One hundred percent
                Only the number of businessmen always raises questions, the percentage of professors - no one. I wonder why )).
                Quote: Ol Willy
                "Diaspora", which is not a diaspora, but a parallel society, closed to outsiders, played absolutely no role in promoting its own.

                She played - mutual assistance, religion, which meant cramming sacred texts, commentaries on them and constant discussion from all sides. It develops the head and makes it possible for talented people to learn. An example is Khavkin's will.
                1. Ol willy
                  Ol willy 25 November 2021 14: 36
                  0
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  Firstly, he did not translate, but distorted, and even added on his own what was not there.

                  So on sefaria.org the Talmud is also wrong?
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  And all the xenophobia in the Talmud is of this kind - do not get involved, because it is dangerous.

                  All the "xenophobia" in the Talmud plays the role of preventing the confusion of the Jewish population with the non-Jewish population, which, of course, has borne fruit - the Jews still exist, despite the loss of an independent state almost two thousand years ago. And they assimilate extremely poorly. However, this also suggests that the attitude of Jews towards non-Jews will remain "peculiar" no matter what.
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  Do you know who the words belong to? Did they raise questions from someone?

                  Jesus extended the operation of God's law to all people, thereby expressing the egalitarian essence of Christianity - see paragraph to Galatians 3:28. Judaism remained a closed club for its
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  And what is wrong here? Do you give money to your friends at interest? )) And if strangers ask, then why should we give them money that can work for you, say, after buying an Apartment on a zero cycle (growth in value, rent) just like that? What's the logic?

                  Israel itself somehow exists and develops, despite the fact that there is no usury of Jews to Jews.
                  Moreover, again, it is interesting: the Torah does not speak of "relatives" or "friends", the Torah speaks only of Jews and non-Jews. That is, the Jews are all their own?
                  When ethnoreligion and egalitarian religion collide, it is quite obvious who has the advantage. Is it a coincidence that Jews thrive primarily in Christian countries?
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  Only the number of businessmen always raises questions, the percentage of professors - no one. I wonder why )).

                  There is a lot of talk about the disproportionate percentage of Jews in the humanities, in particular psychology, anthropology and sociology. And about what theories they put forward
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  religion, which meant cramming sacred texts, commentaries on them and constant discussion from all sides. It develops the head and makes it possible for talented people to learn.

                  Reading the Talmud, you understand why there are so many Jews among the lawyers. How religious cramming helps in physics is less clear
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  Played - mutual help

                  To put it mildly. A parallel society carries out not only mutual assistance, but also the promotion and protection of its fellow tribesmen and the protection of common interests in disregard of the interests of the state and the titular nation. I'm not saying that this is bad or unnatural - from the point of view of a Jew, this is the most healthy scheme of existence, but from the point of view of a local, when an enclave is formed in your country, growing at the expense of the local, ignoring the interests of the local and the state, this is not very good.
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 25 November 2021 15: 09
                    0
                    Quote: Ol Willy
                    So on sefaria.org the Talmud is also wrong?

                    After a cursory glance, it seems to be correct. And what didn't you like there?

                    Quote: Ol Willy
                    All the "xenophobia" in the Talmud plays the role of preventing the confusion of the Jewish population with the non-Jewish population, which, of course, has borne fruit - the Jews still exist, despite the loss of an independent state almost two thousand years ago. And they assimilate extremely poorly. However, this also suggests that the attitude of Jews towards non-Jews will remain "peculiar" no matter what.

                    To each other too laughing Moroccan Jews do not like Iraqi Jews, Moldovan Caucasian, Polish Romanian, etc. But this is all bullshit - if a Jew, a native of the USSR, is happy to return from Israel to the Russian Federation, if there is something to do, a Russian living among Jews, say, a Slav - fig. Because for respect in society, a decent standard of living, etc. you just have to study hard and work well - without any connections and hangouts with people from whom you feel sick. Here is such a paradox)).
                    Quote: Ol Willy
                    Israel itself somehow exists and develops, despite the fact that there is no usury of Jews to Jews.

                    How not? lol Banks give loans without interest, or what? )) I'm not talking about the gray financial market.
                    Quote: Ol Willy
                    Moreover, again, it is interesting: the Torah does not speak of "relatives" or "friends", the Torah speaks only of Jews and non-Jews. That is, the Jews are all their own?

                    Yes, the Torah wants all Jews to treat each other in a friendly and brotherly manner. One Jew once said - they gave it on the left cheek, turn the right one. To that extent.
                    Quote: Ol Willy
                    When ethnoreligion and egalitarian religion collide, it is quite obvious who has the advantage. Is it a coincidence that Jews thrive primarily in Christian countries?

                    In Christian countries, they began to flourish from about the 18th century, in Islamic - from the ninth to the 17th, approximately. Even before the creation of Israel, people lived there well. Then they were kicked out of most of them. Well, in Europe there were excesses like the Holocaust.
                    Quote: Ol Willy
                    There is a lot of talk about the disproportionate percentage of Jews in the humanities, in particular psychology, anthropology and sociology. And about what theories they put forward

                    And in the exact wrong? )))
                    Physics, for example.
                    Quote: Ol Willy
                    Reading the Talmud, you understand why there are so many Jews among the lawyers. How religious cramming helps in physics is less clear

                    Memory, thinking, gematria, analysis.
                    Quote: Ol Willy
                    To put it mildly. A parallel society carries out not only mutual assistance, but also the promotion and protection of its fellow tribesmen and the protection of common interests in disregard of the interests of the state and the titular nation.

                    Not quite so - the sense of self-preservation also plays a role, and how)). The Jewish bandits of New York in the 30s had their own synagogues, tk. from the rest they were kicked out by workers - for example. yes
                    Quote: Ol Willy
                    I'm not saying that this is bad or unnatural - from the point of view of a Jew, this is the most healthy scheme of existence, but from the point of view of a local, when an enclave is formed in your country, growing at the expense of the local, ignoring the interests of the local and the state, this is not very good.

                    An example from 1930s Germany. The Jew Ferdinand Blumenthal, publisher of a journal for oncological research and secretary of the Council of the German Central Committee for the Study and Control of Cancer Disease, who became the head physician of Charite at the age of 26, paid salaries to the staff of the Cancer Research Institute from his own pocket during the First World War, expanded and modernized this institution. He, along with other Jews, was expelled. Thus, the German medical society, which until the forties of the twentieth century received about half of the Nobel prizes and the lion's share of world patents, was simply destroyed by the Nazis for ideological or nationalistic reasons. The question is - where was the damage to the state / local? In the best cancer medicine in the world? ))
                    ---------------
                    Here the Jews were kicked out of universities / research institutes. They flooded, who are smarter, to the States. And they created a vigorous loaf there. But the Germans do not. The question is - how did they harm the States and what did Germany gain from their expulsion? request
                    1. Ol willy
                      Ol willy 25 November 2021 16: 48
                      0
                      Quote: Krasnodar

                      After a cursory glance, it seems to be correct. And what didn't you like there?

                      About the fact that Jesus was stoned and hung on a tree, or about the fact that he is boiling in hell in boiling shit. Considering the "sensitivity" of the people of the Middle Ages to such issues, the pogroms become understandable.
                      And if there is nothing so controversial in the Talmud, how did it happen that its existence was a mystery to the Catholic Church until that very incident?
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      To each other too

                      Yes, but in the case of common problems, conflicts fade into the background. Jews do not consider who suffered more from the Germans - Ashkenazim or Sephardim, no, they simply say - "Jews". In the same way as the pogroms of Jews in Ingushetia were condemned by Sephardim all over the world.
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      Yes, the Torah wants all Jews to treat each other in a friendly and brotherly manner. One Jew once said - they gave it on the left cheek, turn the right one. To that extent.

                      Bull's-eye. The Torah recommends brotherly relations between Jews. The New Testament recommends universal forgiveness. The principle of "eye for an eye" hasn't gone anywhere from Judaism, hasn't it?
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      in Islamic - from the ninth to the 17th, approximately. Even before the creation of Israel, people lived there well.

                      They lived well, but they never had such power and influence there, which appeared in the twentieth century in the USA and Europe.
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      The question is - where was the damage to the state / local? In the best cancer medicine in the world? ))

                      There is no damage as such, of course. But there is a catch in the fact that Jews predominated in the leadership of the institute - besides Blumenthal - Klemperer, Hirschfeld and others; it is logical to imagine that among the employees of the Jews it was more common. This is the monopolization of this sphere by Jews, followed by preferences to their own fellow tribesmen and, as a result, a lower level of training of German oncologists. And as already mentioned, the attitude of Jews towards the country and the locals is far from being the most supportive.
                      In any case, it is foolish to deny that the club of National Socialism hit everyone in a row, and it does not matter whether the Jew was an oncologist, physicist, shoemaker - or Magnus Hirschfeld.

                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      Here the Jews were kicked out of universities / research institutes. They flooded, who are smarter, to the States. And they created a vigorous loaf there. But the Germans do not.

                      The Germans had enough nuclear physicists. The problem of the nuclear bomb in Germany was purely administrative. The funding is ridiculous, and when nuclear scientists began to be drafted into the army, it was just a tragicomedy.
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 25 November 2021 18: 52
                        0
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        About the fact that Jesus was stoned and hung on a tree, or about the fact that he is boiling in hell in boiling shit.

                        Most Jews do not believe in heaven and hell, much less bodily torture in hell. ))
                        Perhaps this is the private opinion of some rabbi, not the cleverest one, who does not know, for example, how stoning is carried out according to Jewish law. for example. ))
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        Considering the "sensitivity" of the people of the Middle Ages to such issues, the pogroms become understandable.

                        If you tell them by the standards of their beliefs, then yes. Only usually they were told this in the financial interests of the church, the guild, the money of the princelings owed to the Jews, etc.
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        And if there is nothing so controversial in the Talmud, how did it happen that its existence was a mystery to the Catholic Church until that very incident?

                        The Jews never made this secret laughing
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        Yes, but in the case of common problems, conflicts fade into the background. Jews do not consider who suffered more from the Germans - Ashkenazim or Sephardim, no, they simply say - "Jews". In the same way as the pogroms of Jews in Ingushetia were condemned by Sephardim all over the world.

                        Naturally
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        Bull's-eye. The Torah recommends brotherly relations between Jews. The New Testament recommends universal forgiveness. The principle of "eye for an eye" hasn't gone anywhere from Judaism, hasn't it?

                        The New Testament and the teachings of Jesus, in my personal opinion, are two different things.
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        They lived well, but they never had such power and influence there, which appeared in the twentieth century in the USA and Europe.

                        It depends on where and at what time. In Turkey, the deputy. the sultan was a Jew - the Ashkenazi never dreamed of that.
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        There is no damage as such, of course. But there is a catch in the fact that Jews predominated in the leadership of the institute - besides Blumenthal - Klemperer, Hirschfeld and others; it is logical to imagine that among the Jewish employees it was more usual

                        Not a fact.
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        This is the monopolization of this sphere by Jews, followed by preferences to their own fellow tribesmen and, as a result, a lower level of training of German oncologists

                        When the team works together, the overall level grows. There were 80% Jews or 8% - it doesn't matter.
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        And as already mentioned, the attitude of Jews towards the country and the locals is far from being the most supportive.

                        Yes, only the life expectancy rates of cancer patients in Germany were higher than anywhere else in the world - or were they all Jews too? ))
                        And how many mixed marriages there were in Germany ...
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        In any case, it is foolish to deny that the club of National Socialism hit everyone in a row, and it does not matter whether the Jew was an oncologist, physicist, shoemaker - or Magnus Hirschfeld.

                        I agree - the problem is that Germany lost from this, did not win
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        The Germans had enough nuclear physicists. The problem of the nuclear bomb in Germany was purely administrative. The funding is ridiculous, and when nuclear scientists began to be drafted into the army, it was just a tragicomedy.

                        This is not the point - they stumbled into one problem and went the other way, the exiled physicists (not only Jews) with the Americans solved / bypassed this problem.
                      2. Ol willy
                        Ol willy 25 November 2021 20: 09
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Perhaps this is the private opinion of some rabbi, not the cleverest one, who does not know, for example, how stoning is carried out according to Jewish law. for example. ))

                        About boiling shit is a parable about Onkelos from gemara.
                        Quote from baraita about stoning.
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        It depends on where and at what time. In Turkey, the deputy. the sultan was a Jew - the Ashkenazi never dreamed of that.

                        Haham Bashi? So they were essentially the senior rabbis of the country, no more
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        And how many mixed marriages there were in Germany ...

                        Jews from mixed marriages were not touched. Remember even the Rosenstrasse protest ...
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        This is not the point - they stumbled into one problem and went the other way, the exiled physicists (not only Jews) with the Americans solved / bypassed this problem.

                        Doesn't this just do the Germans more honor? With scanty funding (hundreds of times less than the American one!), Decentralization of the scientific process, conscription and death of nuclear scientists at the front, lack of resources and shrinking fronts, the Germans were able to get quite close to creating a working nuclear reactor, albeit on heavy water. And they created a kind of bonba, albeit a "dirty" one in the form of the Ohrdruf device (noted in Kurchatov's report).
                        The USA, despite wonderful, including Jewish, minds from all over the world, extensive funding and state support, had mastered only two workers' bombs by the summer of 1945.
                      3. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 25 November 2021 20: 23
                        0
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        About boiling shit is a parable about Onkelos from gemara.
                        Quote from baraita about stoning.

                        Baraita, Onkelos - where do these names come from? laughing
                        There is a treatise in the Talmud called Toldot Yeshu (biography of Jesus). There is a cheto like the insanity you cited, only Elena of Byzantium is also intertwined, levitation competitions between Jesus and Judas and other insanity like that.
                        Quote: Ol Willy

                        Haham Bashi? So they were essentially the senior rabbis of the country, no more

                        No. There were Viziers, incl. one Grand Vizier.
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        Jews from mixed marriages were not touched. Remember even the Rosenstrasse protest ...

                        Not only touched but also deported to death camps. Jewish spouses were forced to divorce or restricted in rights.
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        Doesn't this just do the Germans more honor? With scanty funding (hundreds of times less than the American one!), Decentralization of the scientific process, conscription and death of nuclear scientists at the front, lack of resources and shrinking fronts, the Germans were able to get quite close to creating a working nuclear reactor

                        They approached, but took a fundamentally different path.
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        they created a kind of bonba, albeit a "dirty" one in the form of the Ohrdruf device (noted in Kurchatov's report).
                        The USA, despite wonderful, including Jewish, minds from all over the world, extensive funding and state support, had mastered only two workers' bombs by the summer of 1945.

                        Four bombs by 1945, because they solved a problem that the Germans thought of as a dead end.
                      4. Ol willy
                        Ol willy 26 November 2021 04: 41
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        There is a treatise in the Talmud called Toldot Yeshu (biography of Jesus). There is a cheto like the insanity you cited, only Elena of Byzantium is also intertwined, levitation competitions between Jesus and Judas and other insanity like that.

                        Ok, here are the direct quotes

                        § The Gemara relates: Onkelos bar Kalonikos, the son of Titus's sister, wanted to convert to Judaism. He went and raised Titus from the grave through necromancy, and said to him: Who is most important in that world where you are now? Titus said to him: The Jewish people. Onkelos asked him: Should I then attach myself to them here in this world? Titus said to him: Their commandments are numerous, and you will not be able to fulfill them. It is best that you do as follows: Go out and battle against them in that world, and you will become the chief, as it is written: “Her adversaries [tzareha] have become the chief” (Lamentations 1: 5), which means: Anyone who distresses [meitzer] Israel will become the chief.
                        Onkelos said to him: What is the punishment of that man, a euphemism for Titus himself, in the next world? Titus said to him: That which he decreed against himself, as he undergoes the following: Every day his ashes are gathered, and they judge him, and they burn him, and they scatter him over the seas seven.

                        Onkelos then went and raised Balaam from the grave through necromancy. He said to him: Who is most important in that world where you are now? Balaam said to him: The Jewish people. Onkelos asked him: Should I then attach myself to them here in this world? Balaam said to him: You shall not seek their peace or their welfare all the days (see Deuteronomy 23: 7).
                        Onkelos said to him: What is the punishment of that man, a euphemism for Balaam himself, in the next world? Balaam said to him: He is cooked in boiling semen, as he caused Israel to engage in licentious behavior with the daughters of Moab.

                        Onkelos then went and raised Jesus the Nazarene from the grave through necromancy. Onkelos said to him: Who is most important in that world where you are now? Jesus said to him: The Jewish people. Onkelos asked him: Should I then attach myself to them in this world? Jesus said to him: Their welfare you shall seek, their misfortune you shall not seek, for anyone who touches them is regarded as if he were touching the apple of his eye (see Zechariah 2:12).
                        Onkelos said to him: What is the punishment of that man, a euphemism for Jesus himself, in the next world? Jesus said to him: He is punished with boiling excrement.

                        As the Master said: Anyone who mocks the words of the Sages will be sentenced to boiling excrement. And this was his sin, as he mocked the words of the Sages. The Gemara comments: Come and see the difference between the sinners of Israel and the prophets of the nations of the world. As Balaam, who was a prophet, wished Israel harm, whereas Jesus the Nazarene, who was a Jewish sinner, sought their well-being.

                        Gittin 56b

                        --------------------------
                        But isn't it taught in a baraita: On Passover Eve they hung the corpse of Jesus the Nazarene after they killed him by way of stoning. And a crier went out before him for forty days, publicly proclaiming: Jesus the Nazarene is going out to be stoned because he practiced sorcery, incited people to idol worship, and led the Jewish people astray. Anyone who knows of a reason to acquit him should come forward and teach it on his behalf. And the court did not find a reason to acquit him, and so they stoned him and hung his corpse on Passover eve.

                        Sanhedrin 43a: 20

                        ------------------------------------
                        One day, Rabbi Yehoshua ben Peraḥya was reciting Shema when Jesus came before him. He intended to accept him on this occasion, so he signaled to him with his hand to wait. Jesus thought he was rejecting him entirely. He therefore went and stood up a brick and worshiped it as an idol. Rabbi Yehoshua ben Peraḥya said to him: Return from your sins. Jesus said to him: This is the tradition that I received from you: Anyone who sins and causes the masses to sin is not given the opportunity to repent. The Gemara explains how he caused the masses to sin: For the Master said: Jesus the Nazarene performed sorcery, and he incited the masses, and subverted the masses, and caused the Jewish people to sin.

                        Sotah 47a: 14

                        ---------------------------
                        It was these quotes that became the basis of Nicolas Donin's thesis and the subsequent Paris dispute.
                      5. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 26 November 2021 08: 56
                        0
                        And there was a massive burning of the Talmud)).
                        Jesus was credited with the words about boiling shit.
                        Onkelos said to him: What is the punishment of that man, a euphemism for Jesus himself, in the next world? Jesus said to him: He is punished with boiling excrement.
                        And not in hell, but in the next world.
                        The man approached Titus, Balaam and Jesus.
                        ------------
                        When in Christian Europe interest in the Talmud greatly increased due to the controversy between the humanist Reuchlin, who gave a favorable opinion about it, and the Dominicans, who sought his condemnation, and when the Emperor Maximilian himself, who almost condemned the Talmud according to the report of the Dominicans, wished to see it in Latin translation ( his life physician, a baptized Jew Ricius translated for the first time three treatises of the Mishnah and several passages of the Babylonian hemara), then Pope Leo X lifted the prohibition from the Talmud, and from 1520 to 1548, four editions of the Babylonian Talmud and one of the Palestinian
                      6. Ol willy
                        Ol willy 26 November 2021 12: 52
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Jesus was credited with the words about boiling shit.

                        Only there is a commentary given:

                        As the Master said: Anyone who mocks the words of the Sages will be sentenced to boiling excrement. And this was his sin, as he mocked the words of the Sages.

                        Therefore, this type of punishment was not something exclusive. And let's not forget that the first excuse of the rabbis was that Jesus from the Talmud is not Jesus from the New Testament

                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Pope Leo X lifted the prohibition from the Talmud, and from 1520 to 1548, four editions of the Babylonian Talmud and one of the Palestinian

                        In a censored form, after all. These same quotes from there were cut and they began to appear again only much later, including the quote that Jesus had only five disciples
                      7. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 26 November 2021 13: 22
                        0
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        As the Master said: Anyone who mocks the words of the Sages will be sentenced to boiling excrement. And this was his sin, as he mocked the words of the Sages.

                        Early medieval insanity request
                        Quote: OlWilly
                        Therefore, this type of punishment was not something exclusive. And let's not forget that the first excuse of the rabbis was that Jesus from the Talmud is not Jesus from the New Testament

                        I agree, but in the passage you quoted, Jesus of Nazareth is clearly spelled out. Excuses were about Toldot Yeshu, manipulated by Yeshua ben Pantira

                        Later, in the presence of the king, a dispute took place between Rabbi Ichiel of Paris and Nikolai Donin. The rabbi sought to prove that Jesus ben Pantira, who is abused in the Talmud, is a different Jesus than the one revered by Christians, and that all the laws and insults in relation to the Gentiles cited in the Talmud do not apply to Christians.

                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        In a censored form, after all. These same quotes from there were cut and they began to appear again only much later, including the quote that Jesus had only five disciples

                        In uncensored.
                        from 1520 to 1548, four editions of the Babylonian Talmud and one of the Palestinian ones appear one after the other. All these editions were printed in Venice by Christian typographers Daniel Bomberg (1st edition of Babylonian T. 1520-22, 2nd edition 1528-31, 4th edition 1548 and 1st edition of Palestinian T. , 1523-24) and Giustiniani (3rd ed. Vavil. T., 1546); they were all free from censorship changes and blots, which can be said about only one more Amsterdam edition of 1752-65.
                        I don’t know about the number of Jiusus’s disciples; I know that in Jewish historiography data about him are very scarce.
                      8. Ol willy
                        Ol willy 26 November 2021 16: 57
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        all laws and insults in relation to gentiles cited in the Talmud do not apply to Christians.

                        Here is a curious moment. There are some interesting moments in the Mishna Torah, for example, in the laws on idolatry, to which the rabbis replied that these laws do not apply to Christians, because they are not idolaters.

                        But in the Talmud Jesus is called "an idolater" and "incited people to idol worship". And in Birkat HaMinim, the formulations are very interesting
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        I don’t know about the number of Jiusus’s disciples; I know that in Jewish historiography data about him are very scarce.

                        Apropos the trial of Jesus, the Gemara cites another baraita, where the Sages taught: Jesus the Nazarene had five disciples: Mattai, Nakai, Netzer, Buni, and Toda. They brought Mattai in to stand trial. Mattai said to the judges: Shall Mattai be executed? But isn't it written: “When [matai] shall I come and appear before God?” (Psalms 42: 3). Mattai claimed that this verse alludes to the fact he is righteous. They said to him: Yes, Mattai shall be executed, as it is written: “When [matai] shall he die, and his name perish?” (Psalms 41: 6).

                        Then they brought Nakai in to stand trial. Nakai said to the judges: Shall Nakai be executed? But isn't it written: “And the innocent [naki] and righteous you shall not slay” (Exodus 23: 7)? They said to him: Yes, Nakai shall be executed, as it is written: “In secret places he kills the innocent [naki]” (Psalms 10: 8).

                        Then they brought Netzer in to stand trial. He said to the judges: Shall Netzer be executed? But isn't it written: “And a branch [netzer] shall grow out of his roots” (Isaiah 11: 1)? They said to him: Yes, Netzer shall be executed, as it is written: “But you are cast out of your grave like an abhorred branch [netzer]” (Isaiah 14:19).

                        Then they brought Buni in to stand trial. Buni said to the judges: Shall Buni be executed? But isn't it written: “My firstborn son [beni] is Israel” (Exodus 4:22)? They said to him: Yes, Buni shall be executed, as it is written: “Behold, I shall kill your firstborn son [binkha]” (Exodus 4:23).

                        Then they brought Toda in to stand trial. Toda said to the judges: Shall Toda be executed? But isn't it written: “A psalm of thanksgiving [toda]” (Psalms 100: 1)? They said to him: Yes, Toda shall be executed, as it is written: “Whoever slaughters a thanks-offering [toda] honors Me” (Psalms 50:23).

                        Sanhedrin 43a



                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        from 1520 to 1548, four editions of the Babylonian Talmud and one of the Palestinian ones appear one after the other. All these editions were printed in Venice by Christian typographers Daniel Bomberg (1st edition of Babylonian T. 1520-22, 2nd edition 1528-31, 4th edition 1548 and 1st edition of Palestinian T. , 1523-24) and Giustiniani (3rd ed. Vavil. T., 1546); they were all free from censorship changes and blots, which can be said about only one more Amsterdam edition of 1752-65.

                        Venetians, what to take from them. I remember one Venetian doge who played a significant role in the plundering of the Christian city of Zadar, and then Constantinople
                      9. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 26 November 2021 17: 49
                        +1
                        Quote: Ol Willy

                        Here is a curious moment. There are some interesting moments in the Mishna Torah, for example, in the laws on idolatry, to which the rabbis replied that these laws do not apply to Christians, because they are not idolaters.

                        They lied. If a person believes that Jesus is Gd, then according to Jewish tradition, he is a pagan.
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        But in the Talmud Jesus is called "an idolater" and "incited people to idol worship". And in Birkat HaMinim, the formulations are very interesting

                        They did not read the New Testament - Jesus preached Judaism, a non-Jew in his eyes was worthy of attention only if he was a monotheist (Samaritan, Canaanite, Roman centurion).
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        Apropos the trial of Jesus, the Gemara cites another baraita, where the Sages taught: Jesus the Nazarene had five disciples: Mattai, Nakai, Netzer, Buni, and Toda

                        And here vague doubts torment me cheto lol Mattai, okay (Matvey), Nakai, maybe there was such a name, Netzer is the keeper (I don’t know such a name), Buni is the devil, short for Binyamin (?), And Toda is thanks in Hebrew. )))
                        Venetians, what to take from them. I remember one Venetian doge who played a significant role in the plundering of the Christian city of Zadar, and then Constantinople

                        But they published it))
                        As for the plundering of Constantinople, the brother of the reigning Caesar called on the crusaders, promised them babosiki for overthrowing his own blood, but he managed to escape from the treasury. Therefore, the liberators of the Holy Sepulcher plundered Orthodox Constantinople yes
                      10. Ol willy
                        Ol willy 26 November 2021 19: 42
                        0
                        Thanks for the info, but back to my original thesis.

                        The "exclusivity" of the Jewish people is expressed in the fact that they were one of the first (and perhaps even the first) to realize the full power of unification on the basis of national identity. Throughout the history of the Jewish people, the history of preserving this very identity - and surviving thanks to it - has been written like a red thread.
                        Kinship grouping is strong - but it doesn't yield numbers. Grouping by religion gives numbers - but does not give durability. And national identity is the golden mean, and is indestructible if supplemented by the above two.

                        And there is nothing wrong with that, on the contrary, a worthy example to follow. But one problem arises here: national identity is good when you live on your own land. And when to someone else's? When a group of people lives in a country that does not lend itself to assimilation, actively defends their interests and promotes their fellow tribesmen, builds a parallel society, then this cannot be called an invasion other than.

                        And unlike some other nations, Jews have an intelligence that allows them to reach significant heights in the countries in which they live, and, accordingly, to promote the interests of their group more effectively.

                        And what about the fact when people have so much influence in the country, as you said "mobile and independent" (and not only in Germany, the Sephardic people achieved success much earlier, although they lived less in Germany)? People who consider the locals to be pagans and have extensive rules in order not to get close to them?

                        Yes, you can always give examples of how Jews positively influenced the country and society. But each Blumenthal has its own Magnus Hirschfeld, and each Alferov has its own Soros.

                        And from the actions of such personalities of the Jewish elite, ordinary Jews primarily suffer. Who, for example, Bezos, by nationality? Klaus Schwab? Attention is not focused on this. When, in the impoverished Weimar Republic, which lived on American loans, with its unemployment, inflation and cultural decadence, a quarter of all business and a third of the land were owned by Jews, people had questions. And the support of the one who gave a simple answer was not long in coming. Despite the fact that those who owned this business and land managed to leave the country, and far from millionaires and landowners were taken to the camps and ghettos.
                      11. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 26 November 2021 20: 10
                        0
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        And national identity is the golden mean, and is indestructible if supplemented by the above two.

                        I don’t know - today Jews are a group of very diverse ethnic groups that are united by Judaism. Plus proselytes.
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        one problem arises: national identity is good when you live on your own land. And when to someone else's? When a group of people lives in a country that does not lend itself to assimilation, actively defends their interests and promotes their fellow tribesmen, builds a parallel society, then this cannot be called an invasion other than.

                        About promoting its own - very controversial. This is a long-standing and well-known accusation against the Jews, therefore, many representatives of nationality who took serious positions preferred to take their fellow tribesmen in exceptional cases - so as not to lose their position / not to spoil their resume.
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        And what about the fact when people have so much influence in the country, as you said "mobile and independent" (and not only in Germany, the Sephardic people achieved success much earlier, although they lived less in Germany)?

                        Ashkenazim lived in Germany))
                        Sephardim are the descendants of those expelled from Spain in the 15th century. AD Jews lived in Turkey, Maghreb, Yugoslavia, Greece, Bulgaria.
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        People who consider the locals to be pagans and have extensive rules in order not to get close to them?

                        I agree with this.
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        Yes, you can always give examples of how Jews positively influenced the country and society. But each Blumenthal has its own Magnus Hirschfeld, and each Alferov has its own Soros.

                        Like all peoples request
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        When in the impoverished Weimar Republic, which lived on American loans, with its unemployment, inflation and cultural decadence, a quarter of all business and a third of the land were owned by Jews

                        A third of the land is unlikely. But, in principle, you are right.
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        And the support of the one who gave a simple answer was not long in coming. Despite the fact that those who owned this business and land managed to leave the country, and far from millionaires and landowners were taken to the camps and ghettos.

                        Just a bunch of rich people fell under the distribution, and in the first place. From selfish, from the side of the Nazis who came to power, considerations.
                      12. Ol willy
                        Ol willy 27 November 2021 11: 37
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        I don’t know - today Jews are a group of very diverse ethnic groups that are united by Judaism. Plus proselytes.

                        As already noted, Jews are distinguished by the ability to forget about internal strife and achieve common interests in case of need. Moreover, even genetic tests show minimal differences between Sephardamim, Ashkenazim and even Mizrahim.

                        Citing autosomal DNA studies, Nicholas Wade estimates that "Ashkenazic and Sephardic Jews have roughly 30 percent European ancestry, with most of the rest from the Middle East." He further noticed that "The two communities seem very similar to each other genetically, which is unexpected because they have been separated for so long."

                        I wonder how many of them are there in general? Do they have any weight?
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Ashkenazim lived in Germany))
                        Sephardim are the descendants of those expelled from Spain in the 15th century. AD Jews lived in Turkey, Maghreb, Yugoslavia, Greece, Bulgaria.

                        Thank you, I know how the Sephardim differ from the Ashkenazim; this does not mean, however, that there were no Sephardim in Germany. The Sephardim expelled from Spain in significant numbers went to Holland (considering there is already a significant number of them there since the time of Spanish rule), and from there it is a stone's throw to Germany, especially if you take into account the Sephardic trading settlements in coastal German cities.
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        About promoting its own - very controversial. This is a long-standing and well-known accusation against the Jews, therefore, many representatives of nationality who took serious positions preferred to take their fellow tribesmen in exceptional cases - so as not to lose their position / not to spoil their resume.

                        I would not say that it is controversial: everyone does it. The Russians will pull the Russians, and the Spaniards will pull the Spaniards. But the bottom line is that Russians or Spaniards do not have such a presence around the world, do not advance so much upward, or even assimilate over time. Russians abroad already in the second or third generation do not know the Russian language.
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Like all peoples

                        Yes, but not all peoples have such representation around the world. Russians even in Russia do not decide anything wink , what can we say about the rest of the world.

                        The only similar argument was that the CEOs of most banks in the world today are Irish. laughing
                      13. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 27 November 2021 13: 35
                        +1
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        As already noted, Jews are distinguished by the ability to forget about internal strife and achieve common interests in case of need. Moreover, even genetic tests show minimal differences between Sephardamim, Ashkenazim and even Mizrahim.

                        There are many more groups. The Ashkenazim are the largest, the Sephardi are smaller, among them are ethnic ... South American Indians, but there are also Indians (divided into Kuchin, etc.), Slavs (descendants of Judaizers who previously lived in the villages of the Voronezh region, not mixed with Ashkenazi), mizrahim are divided into a bunch of groups, some of which genetically have more in common (genetically) with Berbers and Kurds, plus Ethiopians (three groups - tigers, Amharians, Falashmura). In case of danger - yes, all for each other.
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        I wonder how many of them are there in general? Do they have any weight?

                        I am not familiar with statistics - at the end of the 90s tens of thousands of young men and women from the former USSR passed through the army conversion programs. The weight? There were reputable rabbis, such as Rabbi Akiva, Herod the Great, it seems, also underwent conversion (or his mother passed), Ivanka Trump is one of the last laughing Biden's daughter - most likely, too, before the wedding)).
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        Thank you, I know how the Sephardim differ from the Ashkenazim; this does not mean, however, that there were no Sephardim in Germany. The Sephardim expelled from Spain in significant numbers went to Holland (considering there is already a significant number of them there since the time of Spanish rule), and from there it is a stone's throw to Germany, especially if you take into account the Sephardic trading settlements in coastal German cities.

                        Not only to Holland, but also to Foggy Albion))
                        Mixed with the Ashkenazi eventually. They practically did not retain their Ladino (analogue of Yiddish), families were created with Ashkenazi, etc. Unlike the Bulgarian / Yugoslav Jews, by the way.
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        I would not say that it is controversial: everyone does it. The Russians will pull the Russians, and the Spaniards will pull the Spaniards.

                        As for the Spaniards, I don’t know, the Russians are definitely not. They assimilate very quickly, incl. in Israel. Continental people.
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        But the bottom line is that Russians or Spaniards do not have such a presence all over the world, do not advance so much upward, or even assimilate over time. Russians abroad already in the second or third generation do not know the Russian language.

                        That's right - the mentality of a sedentary people. And the Jews, no matter how they look, remain black - all blacks are poorly assimilated.
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        Yes, but not all peoples have such representation around the world. Russians even in Russia do not decide anything, what can we say about the rest of the m

                        Well, in some regions of the Russian Federation - yes, but otherwise - very debatable. Find non-Russians in the FSB, for example. And in the city administrations there are mostly Russians.
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        The only similar argument was that the CEOs of most banks in the world today are Irish.

                        laughing By the way, I didn’t know. ))
                        Smart people, as it turned out - HDI 2019 - the second or third place in the world, along with the Swiss.
                      14. Ol willy
                        Ol willy 28 November 2021 02: 44
                        +1
                        Interesting ... Anyway, thanks for the good discussion.
                      15. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 28 November 2021 13: 31
                        +1
                        Mutually hi
                        If you are interested in something about Israel / Jews, write. I have some first-hand information. ))
  9. Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 10 November 2021 15: 41
    +10
    “First we walked in the field, then in the forest. In the middle of it, not far from the road, they saw a fire on which the German executioners burned children. They grabbed the children and, like wood, threw them into the fire. Cries were heard:
    - Mom, save me!
    From these screams it became creepy. I shivered as if in a fever. And the Germans paid no attention to them.
    At the edge of the forest, we saw crematoria - large, factory-like buildings with tall, round pipes. Puffs of gray smoke, sometimes tinged with flames, escaped from the chimneys. There was a terrible stench. It smelled like burning. We guessed that we were in a camp where people were burned.
    When I first saw the flame burst out of the pipe, I shouted:
    - Mom, fire!
    My friend, Milya Yanushkovskaya, who was walking beside me, said:
    - Katya, apparently, they will also burn us at the stake….
    It became clear that we were being led to our death. Thoughts in my head were confused, I don't even remember what I said to my mother then.
    The crematorium was surrounded by barbed wire. We were ordered to stop. We stood still for three hours. At this time, Jewish men were taken to the crematorium. When the flames flared up, we guessed that they were throwing people into the furnace.
    A man approached us and asked in Russian:
    - Who are you, Russians?
    - Russians, - we answered in chorus.
    He didn't believe:
    - Speak the truth, do not deceive.
    We again said that they were Russians.
    - What are people doing here? The women asked.
    “Don't worry, they won't do anything bad to you,” he replied.
    Then Mila came up to him and quietly asked:
    - Tell me, uncle, will they burn us or not?
    - Don't be afraid, baby. You will all be alive, ”he said and hurried off somewhere.
    A few minutes later a fat elderly German SS man came up to us and ordered everyone to undress. People didn't want to. The German repeated the order. With screams and crying, women and children began to take off their clothes. Those who delayed were beaten by the German with a stick. Many, still not believing that they were being driven to death, tied their clothes in bundles and laid them on the side, choosing a drier place.
    When everyone had undressed, we were lined up in a column one by one and ordered to go. We entered a damp and dark, windowless room. The walls and floor were made of cement. The cold burned my feet, it became even worse. I thought with horror: "Now is the end, and I will not see anything else in the world."
    After passing one room, we entered another. Here women began to cut their hair and throw it in a heap. There were several such heaps.
    In the third room, two German women in black coats were smearing their heads with some kind of stinking liquid. Then, one at a time, we began to enter the room where the crematorium oven was. In front of the entrance there was a large trough filled with some kind of thick mucus. Each of us had to wet our feet up to the knees with it.
    One tiny light was on in the room. When Miley and I entered, my mother took our hands. She came in earlier and was waiting for us at the door. I hugged my mother tightly. When the room was packed with people, the doors closed behind us. A terrible cry arose. "Hurry, the end," - said my mother.
    Suddenly, I felt the floor move under us and began to tilt. Below, from the side, we saw a fire - this was the oven of the crematorium. People standing on the edge fell down with a cry. We, too, could not resist on slippery feet and began to slide towards the stove.
    But at that moment something happened that no one expected. The floor began to rise. When he leveled off, the doors opened and the commandant and the same German who forced us to undress entered.
    From their conversation, we understood what had happened: the Germans mixed up the trains and mistakenly took us for Jews. "
    In our time, this book was part of the extracurricular reading program. And now, how many people even know about her?
    1. Ol willy
      Ol willy 24 November 2021 18: 23
      -1
      Wonderful fairy tales.

      If anything, official historians of the Holocaust (believe them or not, it's a personal matter) tell about the following genocide process: Jews were taken into special chambers - showers or disinfectants, as they were called - they closed the doors and poisoned them with hydrocyanic acid. After that, the corpses were removed by members of the Sonderkommand (mainly from other Jews) and burned in ovens.

      No one was burned alive. The gas chambers themselves were invented in order to make the murder process as impersonal as possible - we read about how Himmler saw the shootings and vomited, after which he thought about the mental health of the TCF members.
  10. Pushkar
    Pushkar 10 November 2021 23: 32
    +3
    Look. no one is interested in how the invaders destroyed the people of the USSR. Most immediately turn the conversation to the dominance of migrants. So resist! Go to work as janitors, builders, vendors, loaders. And all this for a pittance. You say migrants are now working for a penny? All the more so - push them out! Are entrepreneurs to blame, they love cheap labor? Become honest entrepreneurs, drive them out! Just get familiar with the tax system first. Our taxes are among the highest in the world, 50-60 percent. From there, and illegal immigrants, for whom the bourgeoisie do not pay taxes. They just want to survive. And palaces in Nice are only for officials and deputies.
    1. Ol willy
      Ol willy 24 November 2021 18: 24
      0
      Migrants have long ceased to work for a pittance. Our Tajik tractor driver saw a salary of 50 thousand and said - not enough.
  11. Ol willy
    Ol willy 24 November 2021 18: 58
    0
    The figure of 27 million dead - minus military losses, which turns into 15 million civilian casualties - is a ridiculous propaganda artifact of the Perestroika times, when the next cycle of debriefing of the Stalinist regime began with the aim of making Stalin the culprit of such colossal losses. It is ironic when ardent Stalinists refer to data from "research" commissioned by Marked and his team.

    And the Germans did not have the goal of destroying everyone and everything. What did Hitler want? Autarchy. Resources. And someone has to extract these resources, and preferably at a cheaper price. And here you have a workforce that will plow fields, dig coal, and mine ore for a pittance. It is difficult to imagine a German colonist who will go to the Ryazan region to dig potatoes.

    The Germans did not even have the strength for such a genocide. There was a war, if anything, and not with anyone - with the Red Army; and the front was not three hundred kilometers, but from the Baltic itself to the Black Sea. It is enough to read how the Germans tried to plug holes in the lack of manpower, but here we are asked to believe that perfectly healthy and combat-ready Germans spent time and effort destroying civilians on an industrial scale.

    Not to mention the fact that such stories are a slap in the face of the Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian and other peoples of the USSR. People who survived the lawlessness of 1904-05, the deprivation of WWI, the lawlessness of the Civil War, collectivization, hunger, suddenly lost all will to live and went to death like calves for slaughter.

    No one argues that the Germans were clearly not going with good intentions, no one argues that atrocities took place (including with the participation of formations of not entirely German origin, remember Khatyn), but it is also not necessary to go into the extremes of agitprop. Germany's goal was to turn the USSR into a raw material appendage of the Reich and a colony similar to British India, in which the locals would have the status of second-class people. What they were not allowed to do.