Military Review

Thirty years after the Revolutions: 1917 and 1991

280

Konstantin Yuon "New Planet". 1921 GTR. Moscow


The term "revolution" was adopted in the 1642th century. from astronomy, and initially it did not carry the meaning that it has in our time. In astronomy, "revolution" meant the return of a star to its starting point. The term was applied to the events in England, when, after the tumultuous events of 1658-XNUMX, including the execution of the king and the creation of the republic, the throne was restored and the son of the executed, Charles II Stuart, was invited to it. The external attributes of the republic were destroyed, the figures who participated in the struggle against the king were executed. Here is such a "movement stories"And was called a revolution. We observed similar events, the restoration and return of the monarchy, after the Great Bourgeois French Revolution.

As for the Russian Revolution, in essence, it was the Great Peasant Revolution, which resolved the irreconcilable class issue between the noble feudal lords and their former serfs, the peasants. In a country, I emphasize, where the bourgeoisie was a small stratum. And all the horrors and excesses of this struggle, terror, no matter by whose hands it is carried out, is connected precisely with the struggle to destroy the "class": "liquidate as a class».

The liquidation of tsarism "at the root" is in the same row. "Collective unconscious“The popular masses, destroying the enemy class, or, let's be honest, or those who were counted among them, also destroyed the form of noble, feudal rule, the monarchy.

In this regard, the collapse of the Russian Empire into parts, all sorts of republics and countries that had already clearly formed by the October Revolution, meant what was in all European feudal countries 4-5 centuries before that, namely feudal fragmentation. But all this happened not in the XNUMXth century, but in the XNUMXth century, when the conceptual scientific approach to the management of society was completely different.

The Bolsheviks, who led, and then saddled and calmed the elements of popular anarchy, through a painful and difficult search, saved the Russian statehood, eliminated "feudal-ethnic fragmentation”, By the way, not everywhere only by force, and they were able to offer an image of the future, which the Russian peasant, who lived in 1914, could not even imagine.

And as A. Toynbee wrote, the Western Bolsheviks carried out the Second Russian modernization, which led the USSR to victory in World War II.

Without the social revolution of 1917, such a scenario would have been completely impossible: without the expropriation of the means of production, land and subsoil from individuals in the ownership of the entire people, no Second Russian modernization would have happened, as well as the victory of the USSR-Russia in the clash of two civilizations.

And the victory of the whites would lead to the establishment of a fascist regime in the style of Mussolini or Horthy, financially and politically dependent on Western creditors, in which one would not even dream of any "single and indivisible", and the collapse of a single Russian state was very similar to what we observe today, but in the 20s. XX century

In this work, there is no purpose to list all the milestones in the history of the USSR, but the Revolution, which, in the opinion of the last self-liquidated General Secretary of the CPSU Central Committee M.S. Gorbachev, "continued" back in 1987, ended in 1991 with restoration and counter-revolution, like most other revolutions.

Thirty years later


This year marks exactly thirty years after the quiet death of the USSR, with the support of the "masses" who hoped for a happier life than in the "scoop", about which I wrote on VO.

Let's just look at some, but key aspects of what happened by the XNUMXth anniversary of the existence of the USSR and the Russian Federation.

Geopolitics


The first aspect is the geopolitical component. By 1947, the USSR was a military superpower, controlling the territory from the borders of Western Europe to the Pacific coast, the USA and Great Britain were formally allies of the USSR, while the USSR actively helped the Chinese communists.

The European part of the USSR, destroyed by the invaders, was actively rebuilding, in 1947 such industrial giants as Zaporizhstal were launched and the Dnieper hydroelectric power station was restored. In 1947 food ration cards were canceled. In this work, the USSR could rely only on its own resources, and in fact it was necessary to establish life not only in the USSR, but also to feed the countries of Europe, the countries of "future people's democracy."

But these efforts made sense, since for the first time in the history of the Russian people, the USSR, after several devastating invasions by states belonging to Western Civilization, was able to move the threat of a first strike to a significant distance from the Russian borders.

What can not be said about the current state of the country after 30 years. In the west, the country returned to the borders of the Time of Troubles of the 30th century, when Smolensk, Pskov and Novgorod were border fortresses. There is no need to talk about any geopolitical influence that the Bolsheviks achieved by the XNUMXth anniversary of Soviet power. The Russian Federation has absolutely no allies, and this, of course, is in no way compensated for by the mantra of Alexander III about the army and navy as the country's only allies.

For thirty years, besides the return of Crimea, this is more of a path of losses: the deployment of foreign bases on the territory of the former USSR, the loss of their largest foreign military bases, the entry of former Soviet republics into NATO, the loss of fraternal Ukraine, where our geopoliticians and diplomats believed that everything was captured and everything is for us, etc. etc.

The work of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the USSR and the Russian Federation for thirty years cannot be compared in any way. Soviet diplomats since the 1921 Genoa Conference and “pajama agreement»In Rapallo in 1922, pursued a consistent and offensive policy, using the contradictions of the leading capitalist countries, concluding treaties necessary for the country's economy and defense. They had to fight for the very recognition of the Soviet republic, while proving the legality of the refusal to pay off the onerous tsarist debts. It was thanks to their efforts that it was possible to keep countries such as Turkey and Sweden in neutrality, to bring Finland out of the war in 1944. country conditions, which existed almost until the end of the twentieth century.

Moreover, the policy of the Soviet Union was supported, however pathetic it may sound, by huge masses of people in the world who saw the USSR as a bulwark in the struggle against injustice and inequality: political, economic and ethnic.

Thirty years later, the Russian Federation has absolutely nothing, from the point of view of ideas, to offer the world, and what a country that has become a part of the global capitalist system and is organized like any capitalist country, with peripheral capitalism, as in 1916, can offer. That is why we are witnessing the thirty years of shuffling from some "dear partners" to other, no less "dear partners". Representatives of the Foreign Ministry, instead of working on the international field, convince the television audience of unprecedented success. And foreign policy action consists of “expressions of concern” and press conferences.

However, the international policy of any country is only a reflection of its economic potential.

Economy


What achievements do we see on the economic front after 30 years in the two republics?

By 1941, the USSR had become the number two economic power, overtaking even Germany.

How did it all start in 1917?

After the civil war, the RSFSR had a devastated economy, the overwhelming number of citizens were semi-literate, which did not imply their use in modern industries without serious training, starting with literacy, there was no schooling system, there was no healthcare system, and there were no doctors and hospitals either.

All this was aggravated by the fact that the country "missed" two industrial revolutions and did not have colonies that could be plundered, as England and France did, to raise wealth in the metropolis. A new world war loomed on the horizon, in the course of which the leading capitalist powers planned, some to keep, and others to get a "place in the sun." Russia, as a source of resources, was to become a battlefield.

For thirty years, a world economic miracle has been accomplished, but this path was not easy, and sometimes extremely harsh, but the price of the issue was not "the crunch of a fresh roll".

Over the years, the USSR has carried out a cultural revolution, a huge number of transformations in the field of medicine and pedagogy. Only in 1918, in the midst of the “extermination of everyone and everything by the Bolsheviks,” a huge number of research institutes were opened, which became the “drivers of development”. Today you can see how many of the remaining research institutes and universities are celebrating their 100th anniversary in 2018–2021.

As we already wrote, by the beginning of World War II, the USSR had become the second economic power in the world in terms of basic indicators, but during the Great Patriotic War, the economic losses of the USSR amounted to five Soviet five-year plans. But even the USSR, lying in ruins by its thirtieth anniversary, although several times inferior to America in terms of production, was the second world economic power.

How did it all start in 1991?

The RF "inherited" a highly educated population and a highly developed economy. The most extensive network of railways, developed machine tool industry, developed mining and processing of minerals, the world's first fishing fleet, a full cycle of farming. production from raw materials to tablets, the world's second largest aircraft industry. Powerful social infrastructure: an extensive system of preschool and school, and medical institutions: hospitals and clinics. A huge number of sanatoriums, dispensaries, boarding houses, health centers and pioneer recreation camps. Children's sports schools and complexes, sports palaces and swimming pools, some of the best stadiums in the world. Huge progress in the scientific field.

Contrary to popular opinion, agriculture in the country, located in the zone of risky farming, occupied the leading positions in the world in many areas, Soviet people consumed more milk and eggs per capita than US citizens.

In terms of the use of robotics in industry, the Union was in third place in the world after the United States and Japan.

The USSR was the number one space power. On top of that, given the constant external threat, the country had a powerful military potential. After the collapse of the USSR, the Russian Federation got, for example, four aircraft carriers.

In 1989, the USSR had, according to various estimates from the IMF to the CIA, and according to research by economists (IG Kalabekov and others), from 12 to 16% of world GDP. By comparison, China's GDP was 2,1%. In 2018, the GDP of all former countries of the USSR amounted to 2,5%, and China came out in the same year by 15,91%.

But the RSFSR in 1989 had 7,9% of world GDP; by the thirtieth anniversary of the Russian Federation came up with a figure of less than 2% of world GDP.

In passing, we note that the USSR, which had the same share of world GDP as the PRC today, had a population 6 times less than the PRC, which removes any questions about the effectiveness of the Soviet economy and labor productivity.

Concluding this review, we note that by 1947 the USSR was the undisputed leader in advanced technologies, of course, yielding, but actively competing with the powerful US economy. In 1947, the first ballistic missile was launched, and two years later the atomic bomb was tested. There is no need to talk about the modern Russian Federation in such a way.

Demographic development


Before the start of World War I, the number of the population that lived on the lands that had entered the USSR by 1924 was ≈ 145 thousand people. In the whole empire, including Finland, there were 826 thousand people.

After losses during the world war, a bloody civil war and many disasters caused by the consequences of these wars, already according to the 1926 census, the population was twenty years after the Revolution - 162 million people. From September 1939 to 1940, after the return of a number of lands, the population of the USSR increased by another ≈ 21 people. Even after colossal losses in the Second World War, already in 000, according to the census, the population amounted to 000 people. In 1959 it was estimated at 208 million, that is, even with colossal losses caused by the wars from 826 to 923, and especially the Second World War, the population increased over thirty years, within the boundaries of 1947, by ≈ 178-1914 million.

After the collapse of the USSR, the population of the Russian Federation, the growth rate of which from 1979 to 1989. accounted for ≈ 1 people per year, there were 064 people. After 777 years, the population of the Russian Federation has become ≈ 148 people.

Instead of conclusions


This article examined only a part of the indicators of Russia's development thirty years after the events of 1917 and 1991. It should be understood that we were talking about key, comparable indicators and did not take into account minor, “point” achievements and failures during these periods. Thus, in the Russian Federation there are world-class companies in the digital sector, but, unlike the United States, they occupy a modest place in the structure of the economy, they are not even included in the top five, while in the United States there are four high-tech companies in the top five.

Taking these moments into account, it is necessary to draw comprehensive conclusions about the development of countries over thirty years.
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  1. Korsar4
    Korsar4 9 November 2021 05: 44
    +16
    You stepped on thin ice, Edward, with this article. I would be surprised if the discussion is not too emotional.

    As far as comparisons are concerned, I think it's possible. It can be compared with the rest of the world in terms of population and where the country's borders run.

    And about the creation of universities in 1918 - 1921. And further - until the 30s - you can not argue.
    On the other hand, resources used in some years accumulated in previous ones.

    Another question is how they are used.
    1. Doccor18
      Doccor18 9 November 2021 06: 53
      +33
      Quote: Korsar4
      You stepped on thin ice, Edward, with this article.

      And what is "thin" there? Everything is clear, but who needs it now? Previously, all indicators were compared with the RI of the early 20th century in order to statistically show the success of the national economy, from five to five years. And now these comparisons are useless, neither for the authorities, nor for the people. Zero reasons for pride ...
      1. Civil
        Civil 9 November 2021 07: 29
        +24
        Success in 30 years: They returned Crimea, won the 2013 Olympics, built pipelines somewhere ...
        I do not advise you to attach a list of failures - they will be prosecuted for extremism.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 9 November 2021 07: 47
          +28
          The 2014 Olympic Story is still ongoing. And more and more negative. It's a pity for boxwood in a yew-and-boxwood grove.
          1. pilot306
            pilot306 9 November 2021 14: 58
            +8
            The epic with the boxwood is not over yet: in the Krasnodar Territory it is practically gone, about five years ago this crap got to Stavropol, I personally observe how the boxwood disappears from the face of the city, there are ten to fifteen percent left. Considering that it grows by a centimeter per year, we can say that our country said goodbye to this plant thanks to ...
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 9 November 2021 15: 27
              +6
              It is already typical for the whole Caucasus. Boxwood, in general, has big problems. It can still be renewed. But who will have time to wait 500 years when he grows up.
            2. tralflot1832
              tralflot1832 9 November 2021 17: 15
              +2
              And I have a boxwood rolling pin, my grandfather also sharpened it.
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 9 November 2021 18: 44
                +3
                The Genoese in the XIV exchanged a pound of salt for a pound of boxwood.
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 9 November 2021 08: 07
          -44
          Quote: Civil
          Success in 30 years: They returned Crimea, won the 2013 Olympics, built pipelines somewhere ...

          well why: if the USSR was a confident world leader on alcohol / tobacco / alcoholics consumption, suicide, abortion, rapethen Russia today is confident went down for these positions from the first places.

          Life expectancy has increased, infant mortality has fallen THREE times in 1990, the number of m2 per person has increased on 70% , cars, moto, technology, electronics and other goods-sea, etc.
          1. Civil
            Civil 9 November 2021 08: 26
            +16
            Well, why: if the USSR was a confident world leader in alcohol / tobacco / alcoholics consumption, suicide, abortion, rape, then Russia today confidently went down in these positions from the first places

            About tobacco, yes, there is a positive. But I disagree with alcohol, you do not have a record of 5 liters of illegal vodka, which are sold everywhere, and of good quality, since quite decent but greedy people also buy.
            There is a war of numbers on suicide between WHO and Rosstat. WHO claims to be the third largest in the world, Rosstat receives figures from regions where there is a clear correlation between a decrease in suicide and an increase in "death from injuries with undetermined intent (UNI)".
            Fell off the roof - by accident. I drank the poison - also by accident.
            And so on.
            And here is the official Rosstat table for the number of hospitals.
            1. Doccor18
              Doccor18 9 November 2021 08: 35
              +14
              Quote: Civil
              About tobacco, yes, there is a positive

              Something I do not notice him on the streets. They smoke like pigs ... There is a dark darkness among young people of all kinds of "electronic smoke discharges" ...
              1. tralflot1832
                tralflot1832 9 November 2021 17: 17
                +1
                There is some positive, but I do not fit into this positive.
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 9 November 2021 10: 29
              -34
              Quote: Civil
              But I disagree with alcohol, yours is not adjusted

              and where is it taken into account?
              Quote: Civil
              Suicide war of numbers between WHO

              Does WHO have branches all over Russia?
              Quote: Civil
              And here is the official Rosstat table for the number of hospitals

              and here are the official figures of WHAT was going on before 1991:
              For the period 1959-1979 (only 20 years old!) years the number of rural settlements in the RSFSR decreased to 177,1 thousand - by 60,2%, .
              Great Russian Encyclopedia. Volume 22. - P. 470-471..
              These are the "little things" that have been inhabited for centuries, HALF of Russia's NP - like a cow licked its tongue - with "successful" managers. It's a success, yes!

              Together with them, the schools GONE (FORTY thousand, more than half), the same hospitals and recreation centers.
              1. vitaly rusanov
                vitaly rusanov 9 November 2021 14: 52
                +17
                Have you ever thought about the fact that these villages disappeared not because of, as you put it, successful co-managers, but because the country grew from an agrarian to an industrial one? education, etc.? that with the development of technology and technology in the countryside, a lot of people were no longer required?
                1. Doccor18
                  Doccor18 9 November 2021 21: 05
                  +5
                  Quote: Vitaly Rusanov
                  these villages disappeared not because of, as you put it, successful owls to managers, but because the country grew from an agrarian to an industrial ...

                  Of course, young people left for promising cities, for huge construction sites, but also the "corn activist" greatly contributed to this merger: when he shut down the MTS, and hundreds of thousands of the best technical specialists left the village forever, and when they began to enlarge collective farms and liquidate "unpromising villages ". For this he will never be forgiven, for with his experiments he did more harm than all the party leaders of the USSR put together ...
                  1. vitaly rusanov
                    vitaly rusanov 13 November 2021 19: 28
                    +3
                    about the harm that the corn genius brought, I agree with you entirely
                  2. Siberian54
                    Siberian54 18 November 2021 03: 41
                    +2
                    doccor18 \ Kukuruznik carried out the second largest nationalization in the country after 1918-22, nationalizing collective farms and artels and small handicraft enterprises or creating unbearable conditions for the development of small-scale livestock raising (for example, banning the rest of the collective farms from harvesting hay until the end of haymaking), which was the main supplier products in small and medium-sized cities. From the Stalinist mixed economy there was nothing left and the country confidently walked to the gaping heights of the nineties
                2. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 10 November 2021 06: 46
                  -12
                  Quote: Vitaly Rusanov
                  Have you ever thought about the fact that these villages disappeared not because of, as you put it, successful co-managers, but because the country grew from an agrarian to an industrial one? education, etc.? that with the development of technology and technology in the countryside, a lot of people were no longer required?

                  It does not come to mind that villages were supposed to become cities: is this how the country and industry develop, and not the disappearance of existing villages for centuries, and huge ABANDONED territories and infrastructures? and the WILDERNESS of huge edges?
                  1. zenion
                    zenion 10 November 2021 16: 25
                    +7
                    Don't you think that people are dying out? What an industry, if about 60 percent of factories and plants are destroyed. A huge number of unemployed. There is no frame that can work with metal. No turners, no milling cutters, no grinders, no gear cutters, no welders. All became managers.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 11 November 2021 09: 39
                      -12
                      Quote: zenion
                      Don't you think that people are dying out?

                      we talked about the SOVIET time, when 170 thousand Russian NPs (more than half) ALREADY died, then, in 1990, already THIRD regions of Russia lived in conditions of extinction (Russian regions), MILLIONS of agricultural lands were abandoned.

                      The extinction flywheel was launched in the 1930s.
                  2. vitaly rusanov
                    vitaly rusanov 13 November 2021 19: 32
                    +1
                    all villages cannot become cities by definition. excuse me. look at how historically cities were formed in the world. and what factors were needed for this. why in any country in the world there are cities and villages. and show me on the map where there were abandoned and wild lands
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 14 November 2021 08: 14
                      -13
                      Quote: Vitaly Rusanov
                      show me on the map where the abandoned and feral lands were under the USSR

                      Lists of those killed by comics 170 thousand! settlements of Russia you will find in the 1989 census.

                      With them, roads, schools, hospitals, recreation centers died, arable lands and other agricultural lands were overgrown with them.

                      And how countries are built-see. Russia, all of America: first, small settlements, land development in the district, then in their place cities surrounded by villages and towns.

                      Or show you where in the world for ..20 years died 60% IR? Please
                      1. zenion
                        zenion 17 November 2021 17: 02
                        +2
                        They began to kill the population in 1985, when Labeled came to power. At the bases, they destroyed food and sold goods to the left. Tagged bragged that he had wanted this all his life.
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 18 November 2021 10: 13
                        -7
                        Quote: zenion
                        They began to kill the population in 1985, when Labeled came to power.

                        do not make people laugh and learn the history of your country, the elimination of "promising" villages.

                        You did not live in the USSR, so it must be understood because this topic was KEY both in literature and in the so-called. parties and in society.
                      3. Siberian54
                        Siberian54 18 November 2021 03: 52
                        +1
                        Olgovich / Yes, there were no abandoned lands under the USSR, villages and villages ceased to exist objectively, the appearance of powerful swing tractors made some of the villages unnecessary either socially or economically, at the same time new ones arose in the field of field camps ... And the exodus of peasants to cities is standard migration of people, as well as a fall in the birth rate with an increase in social security, the more confidence in a prosperous old age, the fewer children (the USA does not count, there is a link between the birth rate and the mortgage)
                      4. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 18 November 2021 10: 33
                        -6
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        Olgovich / Yes, there were no abandoned lands under the USSR, villages and villages ceased to exist objectively, the appearance of powerful swing tractors made some of the villages unnecessary, either socially or economically, at the same time new field camps arose in the field.

                        Sergei, tens of millions of hectares of agricultural land have been abandoned in the RSFSR along with villages: it simply became impossible to reach some of the fields and meadows for any tractor or man, there are no roads and the distances are huge
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        .And the exodus of peasants to the cities is a standard migration

                        peasant exodus the regime itself considered a disaster and beat the alarm since 1939 about the constant lack of manpower in the village - up to 40%

                        From 1959 to 1979, the rural population of the Non-Black Earth Region decreased by ... FORTY FOUR percent! For 20 years! This is a real disaster for Russia

                        Moreover, in the city they were also not particularly needed - the load on social services, housing, excess resources, etc.
                      5. Siberian54
                        Siberian54 18 November 2021 20: 13
                        +2
                        Well, in my nickname it is clear where I live and what distances we have ... At least those collective farms (state farms) where I participated in the harvestalways had in places remote from villages "field camps" a group of premises a canteen, hostels and warehouses, a gas station, a temporary house, for a cultivated Kirov and a wheeled T-150 (well, I have already forgotten its brand) Belarusians, to come and work 40-60 km away as for a mad dog is not a hook ... And the first abandoned fields I saw appeared already under RFI
                      6. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 19 November 2021 07: 32
                        -5
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        Well, in my nickname it is clear where I live and what distances we have ... At least those collective farms (state farms) where I took part in harvesting always had "field camps" in places far from villages, a group of dining rooms, hostels and warehouses , refueling a temporary hut, for a cultivated Kirov and a wheeled T-150 (well, I forgot its brand) Belarusians, come and work 40-60 km away as for a mad dog is not a hook ... And the first abandoned fields I saw appeared already at RFii

                        This is, first of all, about the Non-Black Earth Region, the heart of Russia, where, with the disappearance tens of thousands settlements and the disappearance of the rural population in rsfsria, arable land was transformed into pastures for livestock or overgrown with shrubs and forests, like previously existing pastures and meadows. There is no one to handle - the youth fled, the old people cannot.

                        These only old people and left the so-called. sov power of Russia after itself. And why be surprised today ...

                        rsfsria by the end is A MILLION abandoned residential buildings and MILLIONS of abandoned hectares of agricultural land, and the current situation is a consequence of the "successes" of that government, which deprived the country of the rural population
                      7. Siberian54
                        Siberian54 20 November 2021 04: 49
                        0
                        olgovich \ And the point is to develop land where nothing but apple trees really grows? It was these places that created the "low average temperature in the hospital" - low productivity and subsidized agriculture in the USSR .. I wrote about abandoned black and red soil up to half a meter thick .Grain state farms in the western part of the region, approximately within a radius of 400-500 km. an ellipse to the south gave from 60 in unsuccessful years to 100 centers in harvest, now 35-40 percent of the former arable land is used, the population has fallen by half
                      8. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 20 November 2021 08: 26
                        -4
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        And the point is to develop land where nothing but apple trees really grows? It was these places that created the "low average temperature in the hospital" - low productivity and subsidized agriculture in the USSR.

                        saw no reason to develop land (the main value of any country) - away from the government of the country, ignoramuses.

                        And before these thieves there, people fought for every piece of this "unnecessary" only after the thieves "ruled" the land, lived and multiplied there. ... And today it is possible to extract gold from it - flax, buckwheat, rye, meat, milk

                        Subsidies were given by the lack of brains in the so-called so-called. "guides
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        Grain state farms in the western part of the region, approximately within a radius of 400-500 km. an ellipse to the south gave from 60 in unsuccessful years to 100 centers in harvest, now 35-40 percent of the former arable land is used, the population has fallen by half

                        for 20 years so-called sov power s / the population of Russia fell TWICE by 1979, they remained in the village of STARIKI even under the Russian Federation. You OLD MANS have to give birth to a population?

                        And they could not even dream of the yield of the Russian Federation in the RSFSR, no one then needed it for a fic ...
                      9. Siberian54
                        Siberian54 20 November 2021 20: 07
                        0
                        olgovich \ Yes, the yield is now higher, the seeds are still from France, Belgium, and then there was an embargo on such a product ... small agricultural cities were age-balanced taking into account the demographic pits of the war
                      10. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 21 November 2021 07: 43
                        -5
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        Yes, the yield is now higher, the seeds are still from France, Belgium, and then the embargo on such a product.

                        your shameful "yield" has ALWAYS been much less than the yield of the West, although your tractors and combines are several times larger and no one bothered to create any seeds you want .. .you have caught up with the yield of 1913 and the wartime of 1915 only by 1956. What a shame ...

                        And yes, the productivity of labor in your farm was five times less than in the West.
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        And the old people in the village, you do not repeat perestroika nonsense here.

                        you are not lying to me Soviet nonsense, but refute the FACTS that you are given: from 1959 to 1979 s / the population of the Non-Black Earth Region decreased by 44% at the expense of YOUNG, fleeing from owls colchus. "paradise", leaving only old people in the villages. During this time in rsfsriya your "successful people" was destroyed more than 170 thousand settlements in Russia-more than 60% of all NP in Russia, with abandoned fields, arable land and pastures, what kind of mother passed through Russia? And where will people come from old people?
                        Where life was before the thief, after your "owners" and "achievements" - wasteland, desertedness, bush, desolation and depleted polluted land no longer needed by anyone.
                      11. Siberian54
                        Siberian54 22 November 2021 05: 32
                        0
                        Little by little! The numbers seem to be correct, but with a catch. A young man in the USSR is up to 23 years old (in a catastrophe up to 29) and now a young 45-year-old man will believe you about some "old people. And secondly, you diligently did not notice the military demographic pit, the age of 21-27 years of birth. , knocked out by the war, they would just be "thirty-forty-five." part of the land for restoration by nature
                      12. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 22 November 2021 10: 26
                        -4
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        Little by little! The numbers seem to be correct, but with a catch. Young in the USSR is up to 23 years old (in disaster until 29) and now a young 45-year-old man will believe you about some "old people."

                        not like, but the correct numbers, and this disasterarranged by the would-be leaders of the country specifically for Russia.

                        And the young, without exception, RUNNED from the village, from stupid wild manual unpaid work and their parents pushed them out of there with all their might: "Let the children LIVE at least!" Whoever remained was considered a loser and a Turak.
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        And the second, you diligently did not notice the military demographic pit - the age of 21-27 years of birth, knocked out by the war, they would just be "thirty-forty-five." turn into some kind disaster

                        what, in, "capacity"?

                        Read your own idols-from the late 1930s-a wild lack of workers in the agricultural to the early 1980s-generally blatant

                        And the disaster is ALL the rule of the ignorant for 70 years. 70 years

                        demographic devastation of Russia
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        Wasteland-according to my version, people at the level of incstincts left part of the land to be restored by nature

                        wasteland and ruin is what the "successful people" left behind.

                        And do not forget that the country with the largest arable land in the world She could not be able to feed herself and bought wild quantities of grain, meat, etc., for CURRENCY.

                        Here is the news of the tale ..
                      13. Siberian54
                        Siberian54 22 November 2021 12: 10
                        0
                        With a man whose eyes are blinkered with propagandons and who did not live then I will not argue, I will just raise my hand and let it go abruptly ...! unable to feed, this time was called catastrophe and the power was a combine operator with a mark
                      14. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 23 November 2021 08: 44
                        -4
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        With a man whose eyes are blinkered with propagandons

                        propanadones are those who have been driving a stupid LIE for 70 years without the right to tell someone the TRUTH yet.

                        And today - FREEDOM - you can find out the TRUTH and compare with
                        the wretched and ridiculous lies of your idols: they did not know that other times would come and all their "secrets" and stupidity would come out
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        unable to feed, this time was called catastrophe and the power was a combine operator with a mark

                        do not carry nonsense: in PEACEFUL 1930 MILLIONS died with mass corpse eating and cannibalism - without war and elements, and since the beginning of the 1960s, a huge growth
                        purchases of GRAIN, MEAT abroad - they themselves were NOT IN CONDITION, we had
                      15. Siberian54
                        Siberian54 23 November 2021 13: 31
                        +1
                        olgovich \ You are a bad (not yet) person! if you don’t understand that the country freed itself from "famines after plowing the south of the Kurgan, Omsk, Novosibirsk regions and Altai, which, even with those low-yielding varieties, were able to compensate for regular crop failures in the Caspian-Black Sea region, thousands of Stalin's DT-54 tractors finally solved the problem of the" famine " ..And second, you do not know exactly why the United States recognized the "Holodomor" only after the authorities of the half-Bandera outskirts?
                      16. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 23 November 2021 14: 51
                        -4
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        olgovich \ You are a bad (not yet) person! if you don’t understand that the country freed itself from "famines after plowing the south of the Kurgan, Omsk, Novosibirsk regions and Altai, which, even with those low-yielding varieties, were able to compensate for regular crop failures in the Caspian-Black Sea region, thousands of Stalin's DT-54 tractors finally solved the problem of the" famine " ..

                        only non-humans do not know that mass cannibalism, corpse-eating, eating patali and deaths of MILLIONS of people from hunger, as happened in the PEACEFUL years 1932-33, in Russia earlier and did not exist in modern history for centuries.
                        This is ... the "achievements" are great. successful people.

                        In Russia, Khrushchev plowed 16 million ha as part of the development of virgin lands, and ABANDONED in the same Russia during the same time 13 million ha (no people, money, cars).

                        The problem with bread -Not solved-from the beginning of 1960 already BOUGHT zkerno abroad-more and more, and on the virgin soil began black storms and crop failures.

                        They threw out huge funds, devastated the Non-Black Earth Region and -PShIK.

                        And it was enough to spend a tenth to improve the yield on the already EXISTING arable land and the result would be much better
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        .And second, you do not know exactly why the United States recognized the "Holodomor" only after the authorities of the half-Bandera outskirts?

                        In Russia, a massive pestilence from hunger was NOT LESS than in Little Russia, and it was officially recognized by the state.

                        And why yours were silent about the millions of those who died - it is also understandable - a disgrace and the crime of the authorities is simply unimaginable, like the fact that it did NOT ask the world for help for the dying
                      17. Siberian54
                        Siberian54 23 November 2021 18: 32
                        0
                        And you do not know how the peasants stopped feeding their younger children "under the crunch of French buns" (by the way, this is why we have few "Tatar genes" - the fruits of rape were the first to die))? And you don’t know or pretend you don’t know about the embargo on food supplies to my country of European states (they still have a forgivable crop failure) and the USA? for the conditions of local anti-Soviet customs laws, then because of the well-established technological chains), no one sold the seed and the purchased was allowed for sowing (now also seeds from France, etc.) nothing has changed except the level of consumption, which has fallen so much that there is an opportunity for export
                      18. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 24 November 2021 10: 40
                        -4
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        the peasants stopped feeding their younger children (by the way, that's why we have few "Tatar genes" - the fruits of rape were the first to die))?

                        Do you know WHAT you are comparing? 13th and ... 20th century !!!

                        Quite already ku.

                        Quote: Siberian54
                        And you don’t know or pretend not to know about the embargo on food supplies to my country from European states (they’re still forgiven for a crop failure) and the USA?

                        YOU would like to know that the USSR was the largest EXPORTER of grain.

                        What, in, u, "embargo", dunno? Bvlo embargo on IMPORT of grain and others from the USSR from England - for the arrests of English engineers
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        Well, about oil purchases, all the baldness was eaten away, they bought hard grain and flour (first because of the conditions of local anti-Soviet customs laws and then because of the well-established technological chains), no one sold the seed and the purchased was allowed for sowing (now also seeds from France, etc. .)

                        they bought ANY grain and in huge quantities, because their farm was NOT able to grow either grain or meat.

                        YIELD increased in comparison with the poor Soviet and, accordingly, COLLECTION.

                        Your "consumption" is blue chickens in a fight after many hours of crush at the so-called. "store and then on coupons
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        About cannibalism - in 1924-1927 they ate in the USA

                        dumb lie
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        , in 1890 they ate in the Russian Empire

                        also
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        the population was so small that there were no statistics, but about the Polish lands that Stalin gave you on our head, they kept you for talking cattle and fed accordingly ..

                        he tore off 4 million km2 from Russia and gave tens of millions of Russians to the nat. slavery to the nationalists, together with the Russian lands.

                        Those zemmli, which Russia later conquered with blood, built up and populated during the 17-19 centuries. Those. the labor of the three centuries of labor of the Russian people-down the drain
                      19. Konnick
                        Konnick 24 November 2021 10: 50
                        0
                        they bought ANY grain and in huge quantities, because their farm was NOT able to grow either grain or meat.

                        No, not just any, but selected durum wheat, which was used to bake bread. Our climate is not right for good wheat.
                        The quality of the bread is now far from that of the bread of my childhood and youth.
                      20. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 24 November 2021 11: 15
                        -2
                        Quote: Konnick
                        No, not just any, but selected durum wheat, which was used for baking bread.

                        yes no, there was also ordinary wheat, and corn, etc. -https: //bash-m-ak.livejournal.com/3521.html
                      21. Konnick
                        Konnick 24 November 2021 11: 44
                        +1
                        yes no, there was also ordinary wheat, and corn, etc. -https: //bash-m-ak.livejournal.com/3521.html

                        According to your link, the output is:
                        Conclusion: If you count in money or tons of grain, the USSR mainly imported grain for food. It is not excluded, however, that in real deliveries part of the corn was included in the statistics in terms of grain, and was supplied in the form of silage. In this case, food could be superior to food. Making such a statement, it is necessary to accordingly change the amount of corn in the statistics, which I have never seen in any apologist of the USSR.

                        For food
                        And now we are eating feed grains with improvers.
                      22. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 24 November 2021 14: 23
                        -2
                        Quote: Konnick
                        For food

                        and for food (they themselves could not grow enough) for people and livestock (they could not grow fodder either, despite the fact that millions of tons of the most valuable meadow grasses were spent every year under the snow - there is no one to work)
                        Quote: Konnick
                        And now we are eating feed grains with improvers.

                        bread is baked from FLOUR.

                        And flour "premium" grade today is produced 70%, in contrast to the RSFSR with its 35%.

                        Under Stalin in the 1950s, bread was generally produced with an admixture of potatoes, etc.

                        secret. Krasnodar Regional Committee N. G. Ignatov:
                        the Kuban people, who have eaten wheat, white bread since ancient times, complain that it does not exist on sale, but are fed with a surrogate made of rye flour and sawdust
                        .
                        Now they bake black bread, and that is of poor quality, it is impossible to eat such bread, especially for sick people, except for this there is not enough in stores, and there is no white bread at all.

                        There is no bread for children. We eat potatoes. There is no talk about meat.

                        A. M. Puzanov, pre. Council of Ministers of the RSFSR:
                        “Apart from meat, milk and butter, there was a lack of bread even in the largest cities and industrial centers. Who does not remember until now those thousandths of queues, which very often formed in the evening! ". He also reported that even in Moscow - "an exemplary communist city" - bread was sold with about 40% potatoes
                      23. Siberian54
                        Siberian54 24 November 2021 19: 27
                        -1
                        Is 1897 the thirteenth century? Well, my friend ... You should either wear panties or remove the Catholic cross, otherwise, as the "Holodomor", so all the wheat was sold to the west, as about the embargo, so it turns out it was forbidden to buy it ... Oh crazy, when about 3,000,000 died out a man from hunger there, as well as on the outskirts, there was everything ... By the way, neither in the Kuban nor in the Volga region nor in Belarus facts of cannibalism were recorded only you distinguished yourself ... About a huge number -one grain terminal in Novorossiysk per 240,000,000 country do not tell my slippers, walking is ticklish ..
                      24. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 25 November 2021 08: 54
                        -2
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        897 is the thirteenth century?

                        go to school, boy, and find out - when was the t-Mongol yoke that you referred to.
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        You either put on your panties or remove the Catholic cross, otherwise, as the "Holodomor", they sold all the wheat to the west, as about the embargo, so it turns out it was forbidden to buy it

                        ENGLAND only throughout the year.

                        And the Bolsheviks drove grain to the West, taking off both panties and crosses, even during the years of mass plague 1932-33
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        Oh crazy when about 3,000,000 people died out

                        They "died" only in the sick head of the second-hand communist Borisov and only in 2007.

                        The United States itself, as well as Soviet leaders, contemporaries and propagandists, did not know about it in bed.

                        And if you open the report of the Central Statistical Administration of the USSR in 1955, you will see that "the Americans ate meat, milk, etc. in the 1930s - there are more" fat "owls of peasants in RZY
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        By the way, no facts of cannibalism were recorded either in the Kuban, or in the Volga region, or in Belarus

                        no shame, no conscience, no second-hand knowledge of the Bolsheviks: Kuban:
                        7 March 1933 city
                        TSA FSB of the Russian Federation. F. 2. Op. 11. D. 42. L. 62, 63, 64.

                        YEY DISTRICT... Cossack village Dolzhanskaya - 22 / II group G **** consumed the corpse of her deceased sister.

                        In the same village it was established that group D ***, remaining after the death of his father and mother with young sisters and brothers, ate the meat of brothers and sisters who died of starvation.

                        Station Novo-Shcherbinovskaya. In the 3rd brigade of the collective farm, E *** hacked and ate her 3-year-old child, E ***'s family consists of 8 people who eat various substitutes (rape, silage, etc.) and meat from cats and dogs.


                        In the 3rd brigade, the wife of the convict S *** drags the corpses of children from the cemetery and eats them

                        Volga region, Saratov: May 19, 1933. A resident of the village of Khmelevka with two daughters, 12 and 17 years old, stabbed her sick daughter, 19 years old. The body of the murdered woman was eaten by them. The detained mother and daughters died the next day after being detained from exhaustion. F. R-461. Op. 4.D. 39.L. 69.
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        About a huge amount - one grain terminal in Novorossiysk in 240,000,000 country, do not tell my slippers, walking is ticklish ..

                        It's funny and disgusting when a country with the MOST big rush in the world stupidly imports GRAIN, meat, sugar, etc. in large quantities.

                        Moreover, in this country, a THIRD of the harvest goes under the snow every year, and the experience of MILLIONS engineers and they stick out to the sky when harvesting potatoes ..

                        Shame ...
                      25. Siberian54
                        Siberian54 23 November 2021 19: 02
                        -1
                        About cannibalism - in 1924-1927 they ate in the USA and Soviet Russia, in 1890 they ate in the Russian Empire, in 1860, they were outraged for the first time, further in history it was a routine that was not noticed on your present territory (wild field) of the population was like this there is little statistics, but about the Polish lands that Stalin gave you on our head, they kept you for talking cattle and fed accordingly ..
            3. Vadim237
              Vadim237 10 November 2021 17: 50
              -2
              Now give a table of the disappeared settlements for the same period - since the decrease in hospitals as well as kindergartens and schools is directly related to this indicator.
            4. Nik Petrov
              Nik Petrov 6 January 2022 13: 40
              0
              What's the difference how many hospitals, if ONE equipped one can easily replace a couple of dozen of the USSR?
          2. Illanatol
            Illanatol 9 November 2021 08: 48
            +24
            Well, why not: if the USSR was a confident world leader in alcohol / tobacco / alcoholics consumption, suicide, abortion, rape, then Russia today has confidently gone down in these positions from the first places.


            The USSR has never been a world leader in these indicators, there is no need to make noise.
            There were very few suicides in Sweden and Japan, of course.

            Yeah. Is the Russian Federation also an outsider in terms of consumption of "fool"?
            In the USSR, few people knew what heroin looked like, but now?
            Of course, it's the same in Limpopo that they use "hawthorn tincture".
            And it is not in the USSR, but in the Russian Federation that it was officially allowed to drive moonshine.
            А
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
              Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 10 November 2021 17: 08
              -2
              Sorry, what's wrong with moonshine? Since the times of Kievan Rus, he was persecuted and nothing, did not drink! And why is moonshine worse than whiskey ???
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 10 November 2021 17: 14
                +3
                Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
                Sorry, what's wrong with moonshine? Since the times of Kievan Rus, he was persecuted

                There is nothing wrong with moonshine if driven correctly. But in the days of Kievan Rus, they did not drive him, in Russia they drank low-alcohol drinks, honey, mash, beer and wine. Strong alcohol came to us from the West, and became widespread only under Peter the Great. hi
                1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
                  Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 11 November 2021 09: 01
                  -1
                  To be more precise, under Ivan IV. But I will not firmly assure you, tk. not a historian or an expert on alcohol.
                  1. Illanatol
                    Illanatol 12 November 2021 09: 30
                    0
                    Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
                    To be more precise, under Ivan IV. But I will not firmly assure you, tk. not a historian or an expert on alcohol.


                    Under Ivan the Terrible, only a few, the elite and the guardsmen, had access to strong alcohol.
                    Being drunk was considered a privilege.
                    There was even a proverb: "drunk and smart - two virtues in him."
              2. Illanatol
                Illanatol 12 November 2021 09: 26
                +1
                Since the times of Kievan Rus he was persecuted


                They didn't drive. Our ancestors then drank only low-alcohol drinks, such as mead or beer.
                Even "vodka" was then called not what we call now.
                Why is moonshine bad? Too many impurities, fusel oils and other non-useful organics.
                1. Siberian54
                  Siberian54 18 November 2021 03: 56
                  0
                  bread wine - 20% alcohol solution with water ...
              3. zenion
                zenion 17 November 2021 17: 04
                0
                At the time of Kievan Rus they drank mead, they did not know about strong drinks until the accession of Peter the Great.
          3. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
            Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 10 November 2021 17: 06
            +1
            No need to throw mud at the USSR! At that time we had a lot of good things that the West only dreamed of.
            And one more thing: we had patriotism! Many peoples of the planet have no trace of this. In Russia, patriotism and love for the Motherland saved the country in the 1812th century during the Mongol invasion, later in the Time of Troubles, then in 1941 and XNUMX.
            Note: Civil War 1918-20 I do not take into account, tk. the victory of the whites or the reds was, by and large, the same for Russia - after the war, it would still be necessary to rebuild the country; and both needed "Great Russia". The statements of some politicians about the fragmentation of Russia after the victory of the whites is nonsense. What bantustans are we talking about? Here, gentlemen, Russia, not Africa!
            1. grak33
              grak33 10 November 2021 17: 57
              -12
              Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
              No need to throw mud at the USSR!

              Why douse it with something? He's already up to his ears in shit.
              Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
              At that time we had a lot of good things that the West only dreamed of.

              For example?
              Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
              And one more thing: we had patriotism!

              That's for sure. This good in underdeveloped countries, even a dime a dozen.
              Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
              Many peoples of the planet have no trace of this.

              They are just advanced.
              We have gone far ahead along the evolutionary ladder.
              Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
              In Russia, patriotism and love for the Motherland saved the country in the 1812th century during the Mongol invasion, later in the Time of Troubles, then in 1941 and in XNUMX.

              Russia appeared on the world map in 1654 as a union of the Muscovy and Rus (the capital in Kiev). This union was originally called the Russian kingdom or Russia. And then, from the 18th century, RI.
              In January 1918, historical Russia died (it was dissolved by a decree of the Council of People's Commissars), but on part of its territory (on the territory of the former Great Russia) "Soviet Russia" (RFSFR) was established. The legal successor of which is the Russian Federation.
              But in 1922 the RSFSR lost its independence, joining the USSR. And after 1922 there was no subject of international law, Russia.
              That is, from your list it is appropriate to remember only about 1812, and nothing more.
              But there was no "Mongol invasion" either.
              Moscow Tartary conquered Russia (the capital in Kiev), as a result of which the Great Tartary appeared. Or Mughal Tartary in Greek.
              So, the mythical "Mongols" are Moscow tartars. They are Muslim Russians. In contrast to the Russian Orthodox Rus.
              Muslim Rus (Tartars), then Muscovites, then Great Russians, then Russians (Soviet), these are the ancestors of the current Russian RF.
              Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
              since white victory

              The Bolsheviks called the Russians of the Russian Empire "white". Not Soviet Russians, converted Great Russians. Namely, the Russians of historical Russia. Disbanded by them in January 1918
              Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
              Statements of some politicians about the fragmentation of Russia after the victory of the whites is nonsense

              Of course.
              The Bolsheviks were the separatists. And the Russians ("whites") were for a united and indivisible Russia.
              1. Illanatol
                Illanatol 12 November 2021 09: 38
                +2
                White "the Bolsheviks called the Russians of the Russian Empire. Not Soviet Russians, converted Great Russians. Namely, the Russians of historical Russia.


                The Bolsheviks called the noble elite and its minions "white". And the pre-revolutionary "elite" climbed out of their skin in order to squeeze out "Russianness" from themselves and become like Europeans.
                They even changed the language, everything began to be gutted in German, French or English.
                In fact, our then elite ceased to be Russian, turned into a separate "small people" who treated the majority of the Russian people, like the British colonialists - to the Negroes.
                And the Bolsheviks are representatives of the working "black" Russia, Russia, not of aristocratic nobles, but of the common people.
                Whites are the heirs of Peter, Catherine and Nikolaev, and the Bolsheviks are the heirs of Pugachev.
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 11 November 2021 09: 43
              -7
              Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
              No need to throw mud at the USSR!

              facts are not dirt.
              Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
              And one more thing: we had patriotism! Many peoples of the planet have no trace of this. In Russia, patriotism and love for the Motherland saved the country in the 1812th century during the Mongol invasion, later in the Time of Troubles, then in 1941 and XNUMX.
              Note: Civil War 1918-20 I do not take into account, tk. the victory of the whites or the reds was, by and large, the same for Russia - after the war, it would still be necessary to rebuild the country; and both needed "Great Russia". The statements of some politicians about the fragmentation of Russia after the victory of the whites is nonsense. What bantustans are we talking about? Here, gentlemen, Russia, not Africa!

              agree
            3. zenion
              zenion 17 November 2021 17: 14
              0
              Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko. You know little about modern history. The USSR won the war against Europe not with tanks and patriotism, but as the chief helmsman of the galley with galoshes said. They were of a very lousy quality and when European tanks hit their galoshes they slipped and hit one another and exploded. One galoshes could destroy up to three or four tanks, and the galoshes were different and of different sizes, but they were paired. Small tanks were children's sizes, and tigers were fitted with galoshes starting from size 45. A dozen pair galoshes at the Battle of the Kursk Bulge destroyed almost all the tigers and chased after trifles. When the Germans saw how these galoshes were attacking, they shouted galoshes for Russishe, Hitler kaput. After the war, galoshes were sold to Africa due to their redundancy. They were eagerly bought there because of their high cross-country ability and because the Africans noticed the crocodiles were terribly afraid of Russian galoshes. If you don't believe me, ask him.
          4. Motorhead
            Motorhead 15 November 2021 21: 15
            0
            Waking brehat, ukrotrol. For the victims of the exam, add another first place in the world for unemployment.
        3. lucul
          lucul 9 November 2021 11: 10
          -41
          Success in 30 years: They returned Crimea, won the 2013 Olympics, built pipelines somewhere ...

          Putin has already managed to do what Stalin could not even dream of at the time - to split the monolithic early West. And to inflict defeat precisely in ideology, without offering anything in return (!!!!!). And as we remember from history, ideology / religion has always won only a new ideology / religion.
          The process of degradation of the United States has already started, as one well-known character in the recent past said - "The process has begun." The apple is ripe, it remains to wait for it to fall.
          And then - united Europe, from Lisbon to Vladivostok.
          1. Civil
            Civil 9 November 2021 11: 24
            +28
            Quote: lucul
            Success in 30 years: They returned Crimea, won the 2013 Olympics, built pipelines somewhere ...

            Putin has already managed to do what Stalin could not even dream of at the time - to split the monolithic early West. And to inflict defeat precisely in ideology, without offering anything in return (!!!!!). And as we remember from history, ideology / religion has always won only a new ideology / religion.
            The process of degradation of the United States has already started, as one well-known character in the recent past said - "The process has begun." The apple is ripe, it remains to wait for it to fall.
            And then - united Europe, from Lisbon to Vladivostok.

            1. lucul
              lucul 9 November 2021 11: 29
              -32
              Pfff .....
              You just have to relax and contemplate the story that will be happening before your eyes.
              If I described to you the current situation in the world, say, in 2000, you would have summoned the orderlies for me.)))
              Reality is always the same, the question is that everyone, by virtue of their mind and senses, perceives it in their own way, and 99% of people need explanations (propaganda), since they themselves cannot figure it out in reality.
          2. Flank
            Flank 9 November 2021 13: 34
            +1
            You are damn right, I will only correct that, without belittling his contribution to history, it is not thanks to Putin that the West was struck, but he (the West) corrupted itself. We are just living at the end of capitalism, in short.
          3. tralflot1832
            tralflot1832 9 November 2021 17: 20
            -13
            How many minuses have been crammed into you by the "pseudo-patriots."
          4. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
            Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 11 November 2021 09: 07
            +1
            Yes, you do not minus - it is not enough to beat you ...
          5. karabas86
            karabas86 14 November 2021 18: 14
            +1
            What are we smoking? Or have the orderlies lost their keys?
            1. lucul
              lucul 14 November 2021 18: 16
              -3
              What are we smoking? Or have the orderlies lost their keys?

              If you are not able to analyze what you have written, then why should I waste my time on you? )))
              1. karabas86
                karabas86 14 November 2021 22: 19
                +1
                Well, spend it. We smoke what?
          6. zenion
            zenion 17 November 2021 17: 19
            +1
            But money is kept in the monolithic West. Then the last blow will be dealt to the West. The Russians who keep their money in the West will one day give it up and the West will burn out, what will they do with trillions of money? They don't even know what to do with them, and Russia will not prompt. But they may say that what we could have done with the USSR, do it at home, or we and Russia will ruin, they will surrender in horror.
        4. Looking for
          Looking for 9 November 2021 17: 50
          -10
          I watch-return Kima you do not like ????
        5. vlad106
          vlad106 6 February 2022 23: 01
          0
          So yes! She needed this olympiad, and pipelines to nowhere ...
      2. Korsar4
        Korsar4 9 November 2021 07: 30
        +22
        The thought has already sounded at the forum that the Civil War is not over yet. And it is not so difficult to arrange a quarrel between the supporters of the Russian Empire, the USSR and the Russian Federation after the 90s.

        There is a book by Artyom Vesely "Russia Washed in Blood".
        If we take the majority of industries, then since the 90s there would have been a chronicle of falls and concessions everywhere.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 10 November 2021 17: 17
          +2
          Quote: Korsar4
          There is a book by Artyom Vesely "Russia Washed in Blood".

          By the way, banned in the Union. But the situation at that time is well described.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 10 November 2021 20: 41
            0
            Published in the 30s. And then they didn’t reprint for fifty years. A canvas, and a wide canvas, where a person is a grain of sand. And the language is very interesting.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 10 November 2021 20: 45
              +1
              Quote: Korsar4
              And the language is very interesting

              A little did not go that there are jumps from one hero to another. And so yes, the story of the Russian rebellion, senseless and merciless. Where is a person really a grain of sand, no matter how strong and strong he is.
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 10 November 2021 20: 49
                +2
                Not "Quiet Don", but what can be compared with "Quiet Don". And here it looks like a chronicle. And in this routine is strength. And you believe it.
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 11 November 2021 13: 14
                  +1
                  Hello, Sergey!
                  "She-Wolf's Milk" by Andrey Gubin about the Terek Cossacks. It may not be so detailed, but very energetically written. It is read simply magnificently.
      3. Boris55
        Boris55 9 November 2021 09: 46
        +6
        Quote: Doccor18
        now these comparisons are useless, neither for the authorities, nor for the people. Zero reasons for pride ...

        The USSR and Russia are two different states, two different control systems.
        It makes no sense to compare them - these are two different vectors of goals:
        in the USSR - an increase in welfare for all, Russia - an increase in welfare for individuals. In the 90s, in terms of the growth rate of the well-being of individuals, we were ahead of the rest of the planet ...

        And yet there is reason for pride. Is it possible to compare what was at the end of the last century (21 years ago) with what is now?

        Photo documents show:


        There are plenty of such photos and similar ones on the internet. How can this be compared with today?
        To refresh the memory, a song about what happened:



        It is necessary to compare the era of the rule of one leader with another. With which country he accepted and which country he left behind or what it is today compared to what he accepted. The only way. Everything else is a manipulation of consciousness in the interests of individual clans.
        1. lucul
          lucul 9 November 2021 11: 18
          -31
          in the USSR - an increase in well-being for all

          Seriously ???
          How did it happen then that the tsar left behind a bunch of non-poor people who fought for their acquired property for 4 whole years in the civil war, and the USSR left its citizens in 1991 with a bare bottom and without everything? That is, the state generated some temporary (public) benefits, which, when the state disappeared, also disappeared with it, leaving the ordinary man in the street alone with reality and a bare bottom (without means of accumulation).
          It's like renting an apartment and things and living, and then, when they take it back from you, you will be left with nothing. Also, a citizen of the USSR was left with nothing after 1991.
          1. Boris55
            Boris55 9 November 2021 11: 22
            +12
            Quote: lucul
            Seriously ???

            I hope you've heard about the surplus product. So, you can print money for this surplus product, or you can reduce prices. When prices are cut, the poor (most) get richer. When money is printed (wages are raised, etc.), the poor become poorer - inflation is always higher than declared.

            Stalin took the path of lowering prices. For this he is hated by all the bourgeoisie of the World. Subsequent Soviet policies abandoned this, after which perestroika began ...
            1. lucul
              lucul 9 November 2021 11: 24
              -19
              Stalin took the path of lowering prices. For this he is hated by all the bourgeoisie of the World

              Nonsense - Stalin closed the Zionist project (Trotskyism) because of this he is hated in the West, everything else is just a consequence.
              1. Boris55
                Boris55 9 November 2021 11: 25
                +4
                And for this and for much more.
            2. Vadim237
              Vadim237 12 November 2021 01: 01
              -2
              What is this surplus product? Stalin took the path of lowering prices. Yes, only now, together with them, the amount of products began to decrease and producing goods below their cost is a direct road to bankruptcy - no one will work for free and a bottomless bucket does not exist from which you can constantly draw water and distribute it to the right and to the left without replenishing water bucket. And under Stalin, the same miracle did not happen.
              1. Boris55
                Boris55 12 November 2021 08: 14
                +2
                Quote: Vadim237
                What is this surplus product?

                Read "Capital" by Karl Marx. Everything is written there.
          2. Flank
            Flank 9 November 2021 13: 38
            +7
            Citizens of the USSR were left with their apartments and plots, which is still not in Western Europe.
          3. Kayala
            Kayala 9 November 2021 15: 05
            +15
            What are you talking about? How many not poor people did the king leave? One, two, five percent of the population of the Republic of Ingushetia? And how many poor peasants were there, 80 percent ?!
            I had 15000 Soviet rubles in my savings bank under the USSR, my sister had the same, and my younger brother had 5000, but at the time of the collapse of the USSR he was only two years old, his parents did not have time to save up. And then the marked and drunk came with the company and everything was reset. In the USSR, I would have been assured of a comfortable future with quite clear prospects, and in the modern Russian Federation I have only one prospect, not to live up to a beggarly pension.
        2. tralflot1832
          tralflot1832 9 November 2021 17: 28
          -1
          And no one says where this product came from, for the lotters? I wanted to become a billionaire, I know where this stuff came from. From the same bases under the Communists. And the Communists were in charge of this. The biggest profit, to be honest with the state, is to cut wages, but then they will start stealing and take out your whole business. It was necessary to look for a middle ground.
    2. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 9 November 2021 07: 50
      +14
      It is a rare case when an article of this nature is not a laudatory ode to the current "achievements".
      No, not all the words, voiced by the author, are bold and ... truthful.
    3. Bar1
      Bar1 9 November 2021 09: 40
      -21
      The term "revolution" was adopted in the XNUMXth century. from astronomy, and initially it did not carry the meaning that it has in our time. In astronomy, "revolution" meant the return of a star to its starting point.


      Etymology
      Comes from lat. revolūtiō “rolling back, overturning”, then from revolvere “to roll back; turn ", then from re-" back; again, again; against ", further from an unidentified form + volvere" to roll, roll; to bring down ”, goes back to the Praindoevr. wel (w) e- "twist, play". Russian. revolution - already from Shafirov (1710), borrowing. via Polish. rewolucja. The data of M. Vasmer's dictionary were used. See References


      so revolution is a re-rotation / transformation. What is it? The devil knows. That is, the country was walking and here on you, there was a "re-transformation" or "re-rollback". Can the development of the country be called progressive forward if there was a second rollback? I don’t understand what it is.
      You can probably say that all these
      -Revolution-re-transformation
      -Religions-reunification
      these are terms not for ordinary people, but for those dedicated to what EVERYONE does not know.
      I think here you just need to stick to the meaning
      -revolution-coup

      As for the Russian Revolution, in essence, it was the Great Peasant Revolution, which resolved the irreconcilable class issue between the noble feudal lords and their former serfs, peasants


      Well, this is a lie from Vaschenko, as usual.
      The author tries to fit those events into a certain template within the framework of "historical science".
      What other "peasant" revolution?
      The February revolution is a bourgeois revolution. Several ministers, generals and grand dukes showed discontent and distrust to the tsar, and the tsar, offended by this circumstance, took and abdicated power.
      And the so-called "socialist" revolution is the seizure of power from the bourgeois / capitalist government of the capitalists, who still doubted how to behave with the country, some kind of dark forces that did not come from the peasant class / environment.
      Lenin, Trotsky, Sverdlov, Dzerzhinsky or Stalin, Bukharin, Kamenev, who were the peasants or what, or the working class?
      -Lenin / Ulyanin / Ulyanov is a second-generation family nobleman, but historically a philistine.
      -Bronshtein / Trotsky - from the rich land tenants - the estate - the local people.
      -Sverdlov-tradesman
      All these three are Jews by nationality.

      -Stalin-Dzhugashvili, lived with his parents in the city of Gori, therefore the estate is a tradesman.
      This trinity made up the Small Council of People's Commissars, which made all decisions on all these false decrees and the suppression of peasant uprisings.
      So this is nonsense. What other "peasant revolution"?
      This entire secret organization of the Bolsheviks was called upon to DESTROY the Russian peasant society, which they, with complete success, created with their surplus appropriations, famines and collectivizations.
    4. parma
      parma 9 November 2021 10: 05
      -4
      Quote: Korsar4
      You stepped on thin ice, Edward, with this article. I would be surprised if the discussion is not too emotional.

      Thin, very thin ... simply because the situation in the world is different at the time of these metamorphoses and it is stupid to compare them ...
      Quote: Korsar4
      As far as comparisons are concerned, I think it's possible. It can be compared with the rest of the world in terms of population and where the country's borders run.

      The maximum with which can be compared is with other ATS countries and those close to them, because they were the ones who felt all the "charms" of the collapse of the bloc, namely, the bloc, and not the separate USSR ... TP, and not just one country (Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia also died)
      Quote: Korsar4
      And about the creation of universities in 1918 - 1921. And further - until the 30s - you can not argue.
      On the other hand, resources used in some years accumulated in previous ones.
      Another question is how they are used.

      And this is a difficult question ... it is relatively easy to provide a boom when there is nothing, but it is difficult to keep what you have ... how many in an alliance with 30 different design bureaus have disappeared? Almost every plant had its own design bureau, and on hearing (all the more, they survived to the collapse), a few ... what the USSR left behind - a powerful economy, army, science, but in the new realities unable to survive ... without subsidies and in an open market, this is the most powerful the economy could not survive, due to its clumsy, uneconomical and uncompetitive ... science was sharpened to provide this very clumsy industry, one sphere began to sink, dragged away the second ... and the army ... the army that was preparing for a failed war ... when everyone realized that you won't have to fight for your ideals, the army has fallen into decay (now it pretends to get out of it, but in fact this is just a form in many ways) ...
      What the tsarist government left behind - huge territories (primarily natural resources, not the territories themselves), works of art and other material values ​​- everything that the new government was not going to preserve ... and if for the first time developed countries were ready to share technology , means of production and influence in exchange for the heritage of the past of our country, then the second time they took into account the experience (and there was nothing special to offer besides resources, with rare exceptions)
      Ps: as a result - all this for 30 years we have been “tasting” the results of the activities of all leaders, starting perhaps with the end of WWII ... Some have created a giant whose goal was primarily to compete with the opposite side and maintain the existence of such a situation, and not their own development, others they did not have and do not have the ability (or desire) to preserve and increase the legacy ...
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 9 November 2021 11: 15
        +4
        Businesses and organizations also have a lifespan. It's good when it turns out to be in line with the time.

        And here, inevitably, you start to think - who leads, and to what goals.
    5. Bar1
      Bar1 9 November 2021 10: 56
      -14
      The Bolsheviks, who led, and then saddled and calmed the element of popular anarchy, through a painful and difficult search, saved the Russian statehood, eliminated the "feudal-ethnic fragmentation", by the way, not everywhere only by force, and were able to offer an image of the future, which could not even be thought of could a Russian peasant who lived in 1914
      [Quote] [/ quote]

      again not true.
      "the elements of the people / anarchy, that is, a synonym for disorder was not disorder at all. Bourgeois power came to replace the tsarist government, that is, the government changed, but the government remained.
      Dual power, when, to legitimize the Bolshevik party, the Mensheviks gave power to the Bolsheviks in the Petrosovet-Trotsky and the ARMED detachments subordinate to the Bolsheviks began to be created - these are parts of the Petrograd garrison, workers' self-defense detachments and the Latvian national battalions, which joined the Bolsheviks after the thief.

      All these forces - the garrison of Petrograd, the Finnish regiment and other parts of the garrison - formed the backbone of the uprising in the city against the VP Kerensky.
      The situation of the interception of power on October 17 repeats the picture that happened in February 17.
      The power of the VP acted indecisively, like the tsarist. Although it could easily have resisted the power of the Soviets, there was enough strength. And even the populist Bolshevik slogans "against the war for peace", land for the peasants "," factories for workers "could not so rally the forces of the Bolsheviks, consisting of garrison soldiers, who are the peasants and workers of the city.
      What did Lenin mean when he called to speak on October 25? October 25 was the day of the congress for the election of the new State Duma or the Duma Committee, i.e. it was a TRANSITIONAL time and Lenin decided to strike precisely at the moment of formal anarchy.
      So, all these political clichés that the author uses, in the reality of those years, it was a completely ILLEGAL uprising of the Bolsheviks and the forces of the Petrogarnison against the legitimate government.
      1. Flank
        Flank 9 November 2021 13: 43
        +1
        Quote: Bar1
        ILLEGAL uprising of the Bolsheviks and the forces of the Petrogarrison against the legitimate government.

        The provisional government was not legal for a single day. And in general, power is always legal. Any.
        1. Ulrich
          Ulrich 9 November 2021 14: 44
          -2
          The first sentence contradicts the second ...
        2. Bar1
          Bar1 9 November 2021 21: 00
          -4
          Quote: Flanke
          The provisional government was not legal for a single day. And in general, power is always legal. Any.


          the interim government is not legal, but the power is legal. You have a vinaigrette in your head.


          On February 26, the tsar dissolved the 4th Duma.
          On February 27, Rodzianko established the Provisional Committee of the State Duma. At the same time, the first meeting of the Committee with the members of the Petrograd Soviet took place. At the meeting, the question of the Constituent Assembly was raised in the State Duma, presumably on November 12, 17.
          That is why Lenin was in such a hurry: "Today is early, tomorrow it may be late" - this is the October Revolution.
          On March 1, the First Provisional Government was established.
          On March 2, Nicholas abdicated the throne.
          - Until July 17, the Soviets work, and the Mensheviks transfer power in the Petrograd Soviet to Trotsky. At the same time, the VP curtails the dual power and prohibits the Soviets.
          Therefore, there was NOTHING non-democratic in the appointment of the Provisional Government.
          But the October coup, just the same was completely not legitimate and not legal.
          1. Flank
            Flank 10 November 2021 13: 43
            +1
            Quote: Bar1
            the interim government is not legal, but the power is legal. You have a vinaigrette in your head.

            The interim government did not have power. There was a government, but there was no power. You know this well.

            That is, you say that power was transferred to the interim government legitimately - from the king. And you call it democracy. You have a vinaigrette in your head.
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 10 November 2021 14: 38
              -2
              Quote: Flanke
              The interim government did not have power


              fuu
              How was it that the VP did not have power? By the example of only the prohibition of the Soviets, we can already say that the Interim Government had power.

              Quote: Flanke
              That is, you say that power was transferred to the interim government legitimately - from the king.


              no. Nicholas renounced the crown in favor of his brother Mikhail, and Rodzianko, the head of the 4th Duma, established the Provisional Committee of the Duma, which drew up the lists of ministers of the Interim Government.
              1. Flank
                Flank 10 November 2021 14: 44
                0
                What kind of power does the gang have, which the Bolsheviks dispersed almost without shots? Yes, the VP and at the front did not steer his army, Kerensky went and persuaded to go on the attack.

                Rodzianko is the power of the people? The interim committee too? Why then did the people vote in a popular referendum against the provisional committees with an overwhelming majority?
                1. Bar1
                  Bar1 10 November 2021 14: 49
                  -1
                  Quote: Flanke
                  What kind of power does the gang have, which the Bolsheviks dispersed almost without firing?


                  Yes, you don't know the history, the storming of the Winter Palace was, albeit without a big fight. So the power defended itself. After the prohibition of the Soviets, Lenin hid in Razliv, have they forgotten?

                  Quote: Flanke
                  Rodzianko is the power of the people?


                  what other folk? VP was BOURGEOIS.

                  Quote: Flanke
                  Why then did the people vote in a popular referendum against the provisional committees with an overwhelming majority?


                  what are you talking about?
                  1. Flank
                    Flank 10 November 2021 15: 15
                    +1
                    Try to navigate the Kremlin or the White House. By the way, White was recently seized, but power did not disappear from this. For some reason, the VP disappeared. Because he had no power.

                    Do you mean by democracy the power of the democrats? Then you are right, but I see no reason to bow to such a democracy. If we understand it directly - the power of the people, then it turns out that there was nothing democratic in the provisional government. And it is impossible to operate with the term "legality" because the laws are written by the one who has the power. That is, the law is an extremely unstable indefinite substance.

                    I'm talking about a civil war, the results of which cannot be faked. The people voted with their blood, not with ink on paper. Maybe he voted not for the Bolsheviks, but definitely against the provisional government or the constituent assembly.
                    1. Bar1
                      Bar1 10 November 2021 15: 43
                      -1
                      Quote: Flanke
                      For some reason, the VP disappeared. Because he had no power.


                      no, not for that.
                      The VP had power and I showed it to you. On the side of the VP there was the police and there were troops. VP had MONEY, it was RI's ENTIRE GOLD STOCK. Therefore, one could quite afford to buy the loyalty of the same Petrograd garrison and the sailors of the Baltic Fleet. But this was not done. Kerensky, like the tsar, preferred to REFUSE from power. Kerensky did this not explicitly, but with ostentatious resistance, which was called the thief.
                      Power was handed over to the Bolsheviks.
                      But why they did this is another matter.
                      1. Flank
                        Flank 10 November 2021 16: 02
                        -1
                        Maybe Kerensky chose to refuse for the same reason as the tsar did not see any constructive prospects?
                      2. Illanatol
                        Illanatol 12 November 2021 09: 45
                        +1
                        The VP had power and I showed it to you. On the side of the VP there was the police and there were troops. VP had MONEY, it was RI's ENTIRE GOLD STOCK. Therefore, one could quite buy the loyalty of the same Petrograd garrison and the sailors of the Baltic Fleet.


                        Oh really?

                        After fleeing from Zimny, Kerensky went to the troops. And the soldiers greeted him so that he had to, having abruptly change his image, merge with the horizon at an accelerated pace.
                        It looks like the troops were not on his side, however.
                        Well, I didn’t run away with empty pockets, I suppose.
                      3. Bar1
                        Bar1 12 November 2021 10: 49
                        0
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        After fleeing from Zimny, Kerensky went to the troops. And the soldiers greeted him so that he had to, having abruptly change his image, merge with the horizon at an accelerated pace.


                        and I'm not saying that by October 25 Kerensky was supported by all the troops, the Chairman of the Provisional Government LOST the power and authority of the soldiers and officers with his ill-considered and inept actions.
                        But the question is, did he deliberately do this - did he lose the authority of the government or the burden of the head of government was beyond his strength?
                        I think so that POWER with a capital letter is always greater than the forces of any conspirators, and even at the time of March 2 - the abdication of Nicholas or October 25, the October coup, no one is ever able to overthrow the SUPREME POWER.
                        As soon as the tsar or the chairman of the VP had given the appropriate orders to the troops or the police, then these orders would have been executed, and if the orders of the supreme power had been backed up with the power of money, and there was GOLD in RI, then the power of the tsar and the power of the VP would have resisted.
                        But if the power itself - the tsar / VP by their actions, dropped the authority of the government, for example, Gorbachev - brought the country to the point that everyone hated the CPSU, instead of defending itself, then such power must inevitably collapse and pass into the hands of the conspirators.
                        As for the mythical authority of the power of the Bolshevik Party, this is to a greater extent already an invention of Soviet historians. Recall that Bolshevik historians invented the "Great October Revolution" when "the armed people stormed the Winter Palace, when Aurora was beating the palace with guns, about the" universal jubilation "at the overthrow of the bourgeois government.
                        And then, in our time, the stories have already rolled back and declared that the scale of the performances was not the same as the Soviet history of the party told us about for 70 years.
                        Those. historians, as usual, lie, they always lie.
                      4. Illanatol
                        Illanatol 12 November 2021 14: 05
                        +2
                        I think so that POWER with a capital letter is always greater than the forces of any conspirators, and even at the time of March 2 - the abdication of Nicholas or October 25, the October coup, no one is ever able to overthrow the SUPREME POWER.
                        As soon as the tsar or the chairman of the VP had given the appropriate orders to the troops or the police, then these orders would have been executed, and if the orders of the supreme power had been backed up with the power of money, and there was GOLD in RI, then the power of the tsar and the power of the VP would have resisted.


                        Wrong think.
                        People are not pawns that can be moved freely.
                        There is no "supreme power", it is just an illusion that is diligently maintained by manipulation. But as soon as the illusion dissipates, any power can fall, and easily.
                        A naked king cannot rule.
                        An attempt to bribe their own subjects (citizens) with gold in this situation would only finally drop the authority, and the so-called. the "legitimacy" of the authorities is below the plinth.
                      5. Bar1
                        Bar1 12 November 2021 15: 58
                        0
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        People are not pawns that can be moved freely.


                        a specialist in social management was found.

                        The people were told to go to war and die for the king and the people go.
                        People are not fed for two days and people go to rebel against the authorities.
                        People were told that it was fashionable to wear jeans and people would wear jeans.
                        It's simple.


                        Quote: Illanatol
                        which is diligently supported by manipulation. But as soon as the silt


                        Are you one of those who deny the obvious?
                        power is
                        -Tsar
                        -secretary general
                        -arms
                        -money
                        Well, plus, of course, ideology, so that when you point your finger at a person / state, say: here is your enemy, kill. And they go and kill.

                        Quote: Illanatol
                        A naked king cannot rule.


                        what else is "naked"? RI was not a poor state and there were many things to fight for.

                        Quote: Illanatol
                        An attempt to bribe with gold their own subjects (citizens) in this

                        what other "attempt at bribery"?
                        This is called the timely payment of salaries and remuneration for work, service and valor.
    6. Fitter65
      Fitter65 9 November 2021 11: 06
      +7
      Quote: Korsar4
      You stepped on thin ice, Edward, with this article. I would be surprised if the discussion is not too emotional.

      Quote: Doccor18
      And what is there "thin"?
      Indeed, what is so subtle in that? Let's compare.
      In the early 80s, the USSR annually produced about 200-230 thousand metalworking machines - for its own needs and for export. In 1991, the number dropped to 50 thousand, but more than half of the manufactured machines acquired CNC. On the domestic element base, which is especially valuable .... And now let's take a look at the present. In 2011, the "Red Proletarian" ceased to exist, the unique equipment was destroyed, the staff was fired. The Moscow machine-tool plant named after Sergo Ordzhonikidze "was ditched four years earlier, also with ends. And so - all over the country. De jure, about two thousand metal-working machines are produced in the Russian Federation a year - less than 1% of the 1991 level. reduced to a ridiculous 100 thousand units, that is, 70 times! .... There are no measuring instruments either - calipers and micrometers in "erefia" are also practically not produced ... do not suspect - bearings ... "Samara Bearing Plant" is bankrupt (2020), "Tomsk Bearing", aka GPZ-5, was destroyed back in 2010. The sad list is long, few of the bearing plants built in the USSR survived And the process of finishing off "the last of the Mohicans" is underway.
      everything is very thick, nothing subtle. and everything is detailed here.
      https://svpressa.ru/economy/article/315400/?utm_source=finobzor.ru hi
    7. Sneaky Urus
      Sneaky Urus 9 November 2021 11: 59
      -1
      And what is there to discuss emotionally? The article is superficial and crude. If we compare the USSR and the modern Russian Federation, then the regression of the Russian Federation is obvious. First of all, the fact that there was a rollback one step back - from socialism to capitalism. But if we consider the USSR separately, then it collapsed quite naturally. 70 years of structural distortion of the economy.
  2. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 9 November 2021 05: 53
    +15
    conclusions about the development of countries over thirty years.
    The conclusions are very disappointing .... 30 years of the Soviet period are much more grandiose!
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 9 November 2021 06: 29
      +14
      Many thanks to the Author for the article, ha the work done good
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      .... The conclusions are very disappointing .... 30 years of the Soviet period are much more grandiose!
      hi Yes, Vladimir Vladimirovich! This is also correctly said ... recourse It happens that I leave early and read diagonally first ... I may miss something ...
      The USSR not only defeated fascism, but after a severe bloody war, it managed to create an alternative to world capitalism - a socialist system, also CMEA, the Warsaw Pact. Now, after 30 years of capitalism with a "human face", we can say that the socialist system-- - one of the greatest achievements of the USSR.
      1. Proxima
        Proxima 9 November 2021 06: 51
        +15
        The RF "inherited" a highly educated population and a highly developed economy. The most extensive railway network
        I want to correct the author, the United States was the undisputed leader in the length of railway tracks, but The USSR was the first in the world in terms of rail freight turnover, that is, the Soviet Union used railways very intensively, plus it held the first place in the world for the length of electrified railways. As for the general message in the article, compare the thirty years under Stalin (except for the period 1917-24, of course) and this thirty is heaven and earth. If only because 1918 -1920 was a terrible civil war and intervention and, naturally, 1941-1945. And what wars prevented Yeltsin and Putin? But the paradox: the collapse of the economy and population decline, as after the wars!
        1. dauria
          dauria 9 November 2021 10: 49
          +2
          But the paradox: the collapse of the economy and population decline, as after the wars!


          But this is no paradox. There was industrialization. People from villages moved to cities. And the city is a kind of demographic "black hole". Two people come to the city, raise an average of one and a half children for a family of two. Get old. We need a missing influx of people from outside. Where to get them? In the village. And it has already ended in that patriarchal form, where the norm is 3-5 children. There are also 1-2. Not because of poverty (it was worse before), but simply "what for it is necessary", especially since medicine will solve all the issues of unwanted pregnancy.
          Here is the result. And not only in Russia. It's no better in Europe.
          1. karabas86
            karabas86 14 November 2021 18: 25
            0
            Is the supermortality rate of the 90s also the norm? Reducing the average life expectancy of men to 56, how do you explain?
        2. your1970
          your1970 9 November 2021 11: 57
          -6
          Quote: Proxima
          If only because 1918 -1920 was a terrible civil war and intervention and, naturally, 1941-1945.

          It was PMV and GV that made it possible to do anything with human resources, since human life depreciated to zero. This made it possible to relocate masses of people anywhere and for anything - practically at no special cost. Wagons and rations ...
          And in the 1970s, the "Komsomol ticket to the BAM" already required a large salary - in contrast to the 1930s.
          It was because of this many-fold increase in the value of the human resource that the economy of the USSR began to slip.
        3. Flank
          Flank 9 November 2021 13: 47
          -7
          Quote: Proxima
          And what wars prevented Yeltsin and Putin?

          Capitalism hindered Putin. He could not bring back communism, if only because the people are strongly against it. So we have to work within the existing formation.
          1. Alf
            Alf 9 November 2021 17: 10
            +6
            Quote: Flanke
            Capitalism hindered Putin.

            Come on ? Do these words mean anything?
            Quote: Flanke
            He could not bring back communism, if only because the people are strongly against it.

            What "people"? This ?

            Quote: Flanke
            So we have to work within the existing formation.

            And what are the "successes"?
            1. Flank
              Flank 10 November 2021 13: 51
              0
              Of course, Putin could not say otherwise, and even now he cannot. And you would not be in the president's place. Vaughn Khrushchev staged a counter-revolution, and said that he was building communism. Who can tell the truth? The same Stalin rarely spoke the truth in public. He fought with the Leninists, but said that with the enemies of the people. You give up this quotation, it will not lead to good.

              The people do not want the simplest communism - with a salary of 20-30 thousand. I communicate every day and have lost all illusions about this. The people are not the same, it is a fact. He wants an apartment, a car and travel to Turkey. And they don't care that Turkey is our enemy and a NATO member. "I want and will be" - this is the slogan of the Russian people. Too many "I" for the builders of communism.

              There are successes. On the periphery of capitalism after the counter-revolution, the integrity of such a gigantic and contradictory country is a success in itself. And if you add the fact that Russia is one of the three world leaders, this is generally a masterpiece.
              1. Alf
                Alf 10 November 2021 17: 39
                +2
                Quote: Flanke
                And if you add the fact that Russia is one of the three world leaders, this is generally a masterpiece.

                What are the criteria?
                Quote: Flanke
                The people do not want the simplest communism - with a salary of 20-30 thousand.

                And where did you get the idea that under communism there will be only 20-30 thousand salaries?
                1. Flank
                  Flank 11 November 2021 08: 26
                  -1
                  By influence. Not for the salary. In terms of wages, China is confidently in last place, and the overthrow of the three.

                  You do not understand, people with the current salary of 20-30 do not want communism, although, according to the logic, it should.
                  1. Alf
                    Alf 11 November 2021 17: 29
                    +2
                    Quote: Flanke
                    people with the current salary of 20-30 do not want communism

                    Did the people themselves tell you?
                    1. Flank
                      Flank 12 November 2021 08: 37
                      -2
                      Quote: Alf
                      Did the people themselves tell you?

                      Yes. It was the people themselves who told me this. I'm not kidding. And he will tell you if you go to it from the Internet.

                      Russia's influence is strong in everything. The same vaccine - 10 years ago it was impossible to imagine that we would be able to export it. Now only three countries rule the world and of the European countries the only one is Russia.
                      1. Alf
                        Alf 12 November 2021 11: 02
                        +2
                        Quote: Flanke
                        It was the people themselves who told me this. I'm not kidding.

                        Kashchenko ...
                        Quote: Flanke
                        The same vaccine - 10 years ago it was impossible to imagine that we would be able to export it.

                        Of course we can, that's just the problem, nowhere is it officially recognized. And she burets all slugs like Argentina.
                        Quote: Flanke
                        Russia is the only European country.

                        And what exactly does she rule? Most powerful economy? Feeding all of Europe? First in space? Best Science? The best education in the world? The richest people? How do we say, so everyone does? The most stable currency?
                      2. Flank
                        Flank 12 November 2021 13: 03
                        0
                        Quote: Alf
                        Kashchenko

                        Justify.

                        As we say, so everyone does - this is more suitable. Although our economy in terms of gross product is at the level of Germany.
                      3. Alf
                        Alf 12 November 2021 16: 45
                        +3
                        Quote: Flanke
                        Justify

                        Have you spoken to all 140 million?
                        Quote: Flanke
                        Although our economy in terms of gross product is at the level of Germany.

                        And what about the calculation for one citizen?
                      4. Flank
                        Flank 15 November 2021 15: 28
                        0
                        Perhaps you spoke with 140 million, since you are proving that the people want communism.

                        No, the common people want communism, but only to be created by Putin personally, and the people continue to vegetate in petty-bourgeois pleasures. "How the steel was tempered" the people do not want. Hence the consequence: the people do not want communism. Well, for other reasons, relatively speaking, the people are not the same because. Well, at least the people no longer know why to do well to another. But communism is the primacy of the general over the particular, among other things. Anti-tackers have shown that for the sake of the common good the people will not lift a finger.

                        The Chinese are behind the United States and Russia per citizen, but you would not argue that China is not one of the three most influential countries.
                      5. karabas86
                        karabas86 14 November 2021 18: 31
                        +1
                        Do not argue that these are impenetrable tovarischi, like Olgovich and other crushers. What are they smoking there or what mushrooms are they consuming? We do not understand their wet fantasies. The passage of three amused me.
                      6. Alf
                        Alf 14 November 2021 22: 18
                        +1
                        Quote: karabas86
                        Do not argue that these are impenetrable tovarischi, like Olgovich and other crushers.

                        I'm just wondering what else you can think of.
                  2. Alf
                    Alf 11 November 2021 17: 29
                    +3
                    Quote: Flanke
                    By influence.

                    Haha ... What?
              2. Illanatol
                Illanatol 12 November 2021 09: 49
                +2
                The people are not the same, it is a fact. He wants an apartment, a car and travel to Turkey. And they don't care that Turkey is our enemy and a NATO member. "I want and will be" - this is the slogan of the Russian people.


                This is not the slogan of the people, but of the terry bourgeoisie. In part you are right, many have become so.
                But as you know, where the "gray" triumphs, sooner or later the "blacks" will come.
                Do you want socialism?
                It won't, okay.
                Get fascism, over time.
              3. karabas86
                karabas86 14 November 2021 18: 28
                +1
                What top three are you talking about? What do you accept? Something big.
            2. Dartik
              Dartik 11 November 2021 00: 22
              +1
              Quote: Alf
              Quote: Flanke
              Capitalism hindered Putin.

              Come on ? Do these words mean anything?
              Quote: Flanke
              He could not bring back communism, if only because the people are strongly against it.

              What "people"? This ?

              Quote: Flanke
              So we have to work within the existing formation.

              And what are the "successes"?

              What economic model will your communism have? If it's planned, then good luck!
              1. Alf
                Alf 11 November 2021 17: 32
                +2
                Quote: Dartik
                What economic model will your communism have? If it's planned, then good luck!

                And what was the model of socialism in the USSR before 1953? By the way, if you don't know, the first TV set in the USSR was created by such a production association Record. Here are just a "small" fact - it was a joint-stock company, not a state one. And 6% of the total GDP, up to 53% of the year, came from private cooperative enterprises.
                1. Dartik
                  Dartik 11 November 2021 19: 13
                  +1
                  Quote: Alf
                  Quote: Dartik
                  What economic model will your communism have? If it's planned, then good luck!

                  And what was the model of socialism in the USSR before 1953? By the way, if you don't know, the first TV set in the USSR was created by such a production association Record. Here are just a "small" fact - it was a joint-stock company, not a state one. And 6% of the total GDP, up to 53% of the year, came from private cooperative enterprises.

                  I just asked the question, why do I need this water? Most of the GDP of the USSR was given by the military and related factories. Because with such production volumes, the USSR could quietly satisfy demand from the 70s, but alas, domestic demand could not. Because firing bullets was more important than firing toilet paper.
                  1. Alf
                    Alf 11 November 2021 19: 18
                    +3
                    Quote: Dartik
                    I just asked the question, why do I need this water?

                    I explain for those who do not understand or do not want to understand. Socialism in the USSR was different, until 53 it was one, after it was completely different. Until the 53rd, the entire sphere of consumption belonged to shareholders. It is precisely if this system is introduced, there will be no rioters.
                    1. Dartik
                      Dartik 11 November 2021 21: 43
                      0
                      Quote: Alf
                      Quote: Dartik
                      I just asked the question, why do I need this water?

                      I explain for those who do not understand or do not want to understand. Socialism in the USSR was different, until 53 it was one, after it was completely different. Until the 53rd, the entire sphere of consumption belonged to shareholders. It is precisely if this system is introduced, there will be no rioters.

                      The basics did not change, the state plan was, and remained, even before the collapse of the USSR. And everything else that was inside is insignificant. Sphere of consumption to shareholders? How is this different from today? When do large companies own the majority of stores?
                      1. Alf
                        Alf 12 November 2021 11: 04
                        +3
                        Quote: Dartik
                        How is this different from today?

                        The fact that the enterprises belonged to all those who work in them, and not as now, one owner, and the rest of the hired workers.
                      2. Dartik
                        Dartik 12 November 2021 14: 57
                        -2
                        Quote: Alf
                        Quote: Dartik
                        How is this different from today?

                        The fact that the enterprises belonged to all those who work in them, and not as now, one owner, and the rest of the hired workers.

                        How will all workers decide what is beneficial for the plant? Will everyone get together and decide? The average worker knows little about how to promote a product. Then in honor of what will he decide?
                      3. Alf
                        Alf 12 November 2021 16: 43
                        +4
                        Quote: Dartik
                        How will all workers decide what is beneficial for the plant?

                        Did you yourself work at least one day in production?
                        I will explain it with the most understandable example.
                        I will tell the master that if I use this cutter, and not the one according to the technology, then I will be able to make not 10 parts per shift, but 12.
                        And the technologist will write a paper that if the machines are arranged differently than now, but like this, the route of movement of parts will be reduced from 100 meters to 50, which means that you can make more parts with the same machines. The top management will consider these proposals, consider them necessary, apply and I will receive more money, the cost will decrease, the plant will produce more parts. And at the end of the year, I will also receive more dividends. And now an ordinary hard worker does not give a damn, because even if he moves his proposals up, the director considers them necessary, applies them, then only the owner of the shares will receive a profit, but not the hard worker.
                        But this can only be understood by someone who is engaged in productive work, and not wiping his pants in the office.
                        And the ordinary worker will no longer give a damn. Ask Vadim237, he will tell you the same thing.
                      4. Dartik
                        Dartik 12 November 2021 20: 53
                        -2
                        Quote: Alf
                        Quote: Dartik
                        How will all workers decide what is beneficial for the plant?

                        Did you yourself work at least one day in production?
                        I will explain it with the most understandable example.
                        I will tell the master that if I use this cutter, and not the one according to the technology, then I will be able to make not 10 parts per shift, but 12.
                        And the technologist will write a paper that if the machines are arranged differently than now, but like this, the route of movement of parts will be reduced from 100 meters to 50, which means that you can make more parts with the same machines. The top management will consider these proposals, consider them necessary, apply and I will receive more money, the cost will decrease, the plant will produce more parts. And at the end of the year, I will also receive more dividends. And now an ordinary hard worker does not give a damn, because even if he moves his proposals up, the director considers them necessary, applies them, then only the owner of the shares will receive a profit, but not the hard worker.
                        But this can only be understood by someone who is engaged in productive work, and not wiping his pants in the office.
                        And the ordinary worker will no longer give a damn. Ask Vadim237, he will tell you the same thing.

                        An ordinary person in an office can earn many times more than a hard worker at a factory. For example, the same progers. I asked you who will promote the products. An ordinary worker? I don't think he doesn't know how. Move on. Will everyone have the same salary + dividends at the end of the year? For example, Google has the same scheme, part of the promotion is given to the employee. Many large companies do this. Socialism has nothing to do with it.
                      5. Alf
                        Alf 12 November 2021 21: 58
                        +3
                        Quote: Dartik
                        I asked you who will promote the products.

                        Everyone will do their job and think how, better and faster on their site.
                        Quote: Dartik
                        Everyone will have the same salary

                        With what joy ?
                        Quote: Dartik
                        Many large companies do this. Socialism has nothing to do with it.

                        Just where. Are you not aware that the Japanese after the war, restoring industry, took a lot from the socialist model, and they themselves did not hide it?
                      6. Alf
                        Alf 12 November 2021 22: 10
                        +2
                        By the way, the state plan in the country of freedom and private property of the United States still exists and is the main document in the state that ensures its functioning.
                        Here is the edition, read, by the way, the edition not of Soviet times, but of 2016.
                      7. Dartik
                        Dartik 15 November 2021 02: 13
                        0
                        Quote: Alf
                        Quote: Dartik
                        I asked you who will promote the products.

                        Everyone will do their job and think how, better and faster on their site.
                        Quote: Dartik
                        Everyone will have the same salary

                        With what joy ?
                        Quote: Dartik
                        Many large companies do this. Socialism has nothing to do with it.

                        Just where. Are you not aware that the Japanese after the war, restoring industry, took a lot from the socialist model, and they themselves did not hide it?

                        So wait, for example, in the Scandinavian countries there is socialism, but there is pure capitalist economy.
              2. karabas86
                karabas86 14 November 2021 18: 33
                0
                Perhaps I will be surprised, but everyone will soon have a plan, read the textbooks.
                1. Alf
                  Alf 14 November 2021 22: 20
                  +2
                  Quote: karabas86
                  Perhaps I will be surprised, but everyone will soon have a plan, read the textbooks.

                  Everyone has a planned one, just some countries, apologists of capitalism, do not like to emphasize this fact.
                  1. karabas86
                    karabas86 14 November 2021 23: 15
                    +1
                    Actually, this is what I meant, but it is often called economic forecasting.
          2. karabas86
            karabas86 14 November 2021 18: 26
            +1
            And who conducted the research that the people are against is nonsense.
      2. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 9 November 2021 12: 38
        +5
        one of the greatest achievements of the USSR.
        Hello Dima ! hi And Deripasko and Abramovich read my comment and marked with minuses! sad
  3. 1536
    1536 9 November 2021 06: 01
    +1
    In the USSR, people were afraid of a repetition of a hot war, an attack by the United States and Western European countries, the destruction of their cities after the atomic bombings, etc. Behind all this, they simply missed, did not attach importance, turned a blind eye to the internal situation in the country. The management did not take into account the opinions of people belonging to different social groups, dogmatically assuming that everything will be decided first by the "dictatorship of the proletariat" and then by the "social community - the Soviet people." The party itself, with its own hands, created bridgeheads for the introduction of "Western standards", ideas, and a way of life for Soviet people. But at the same time it ruined and suppressed all independence, initiative, private entrepreneurship, and at the end of the existence of the USSR even honesty and decency. "Conscience" has become an extensible concept for many so-called leaders at literally all levels, up to the highest.
    By 1991, we got what they wanted to get or should have happened. Thank God that we came to our senses in time. Although they are still not immune from the repetition of certain destructive events. Perhaps, nevertheless, to study the invaluable experience of the post-war life of the country and the people, to study it without any pathos, but also anger. And finally develop mechanisms to prevent the next "historical upheavals"?
    1. NDR-791
      NDR-791 9 November 2021 06: 15
      +7
      Quote: 1536
      Perhaps, nevertheless, to study the invaluable experience of the post-war life of the country and the people, to study it without any pathos, but also anger. And finally develop mechanisms to prevent the next "historical upheavals"?

      I would like to, but it seems to me that it is useless. History never teaches anyone, unlike a rake in the forehead. And another moment - "historical upheavals" and similar genocides of their own people do not just happen, but only when someone needs it. There is, however, another point - the availability of opportunities for those interested in redistribution. And in all cases, the opinion of the people does not interest anyone. And the author's statement - "with the support of the" masses "hoping for a happier life than in the" scoop " let it remain on the conscience of the author. Normal, ordinary people have not supported this crap since perestroika (see the real results of at least a referendum). And the "heroic" fighters who received a medal in the 91st, which the whole country calls For .. SR .. Anka already in the mid-90s hesitated to wear one.
  4. ivan2022
    ivan2022 9 November 2021 06: 01
    -4
    "Bolsheviks" are commoners and noblemen of the late 19th century. When the descendants of the village kulaks came to their place, everything collapsed. There can be no socialism in a country where there is no labor movement.
    1. mmaxx
      mmaxx 9 November 2021 06: 15
      +6
      With a small stratum of workers, there was a labor movement. And what else.
      1. ivan2022
        ivan2022 9 November 2021 06: 38
        -2
        Quote: mmaxx
        With a small stratum of workers, there was a labor movement. And what else.

        That's exactly what "was". And then there was not just a "petty-bourgeois wave", but a flood that rushed from the villages.
        I remember perfectly the Russian army of the then "migrants - - limiters", who brought a mess, drunkenness, debauchery and indifference to the kondova village to the big cities.
        Workers of the old school drowned in this sea like flies in milk. Disappeared. Together with the village, by the way.
  5. parusnik
    parusnik 9 November 2021 06: 10
    +18
    In principle, if we compare the indicators for 30 years, 1917-1947 and from 1991-2021, they are far from in favor of modern Russia. Considering also that during this period Soviet Russia experienced a civil war, intervention, the creation of industry, its destruction as a result World War II, its restoration ...
  6. mmaxx
    mmaxx 9 November 2021 06: 14
    +11
    Now some will come here and explain that in fact the Bolleviks destroyed everything. And if not for them .... then ... wow ... And what about the Bolsheviks? Yes, they did nothing at all.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 9 November 2021 07: 30
      -15
      Quote: mmaxx
      And if not for them .... then ... wow ... And what about the Bolsheviks? Yes, they did nothing at all.

      The Bolsheviks were, for the most part, foreigners. And, given that any revolution is the elimination of age-old traditions and the structure of the state itself, the result of all these upheavals was and will be what we are now seeing. There are many shouts and cries for the good of the people, and as a result, the usual robbery of people ...
      This was the case both after 1917 and after 1991.
      1. tatra
        tatra 9 November 2021 08: 18
        +3
        Enough of your anti-Soviet forgeries. Both in 1917 and according to the party census of 1922, two-thirds of the Bolsheviks were Russians.
        It was you, the enemies of the Bolsheviks, after you seized the RSFSR, gave it to "foreigners", and made Russians people not even second, but third class, after Jews and Muslims.
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 9 November 2021 08: 24
          -14
          Quote: tatra
          Enough of your anti-Soviet fakes

          Any revolution is, first of all, a rebellion against God, the devil is like the first rebel and was the first revolutionary. I said nothing new.
          And, you, you are fond of slogans and chants.
          1. tatra
            tatra 9 November 2021 08: 32
            +4
            Please do not contact me with nonsense.
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 9 November 2021 08: 34
              -6
              We part and delve into each other - there is no more need.
          2. Illanatol
            Illanatol 9 November 2021 08: 55
            +6
            Any revolution is, first of all, a rebellion against God, the devil is like the first rebel and was the first revolutionary.


            So be it. But if it were not for the "revolutionary" Satan, who seduced Adam and Eve with an apple, the whole of humanity until now would have consisted of these two blissful idiots.
            And there was no one else, including you. Are you ready to accept this, come to terms with your non-existence, or say "thank you" to the First Revolutionary?
            "I believe because it is absurd." One should not appeal to religious texts written by illiterate shepherds, as they are too absurd.
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 9 November 2021 17: 46
              -3
              Quote: Illanatol
              "revolutionary" Сatana,

              Quote: Illanatol
              let's say Пthe first "Thank you" to the revolutionary?

              It's embarrassing, you get the idea ...
          3. mmaxx
            mmaxx 9 November 2021 16: 22
            +2
            wassat wassat
            So, my friend, there is a place in the monastery. To rest from the troubles of the world.
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 9 November 2021 17: 40
              -4
              Quote: mmaxx
              So, my friend, there is a place in the monastery

              People like me are not accepted into a monastery, for very old times - you had to be church-going from an early age, in order to be accepted as a monk, in modern times, you need to have at least some kind of working profession in order to bring benefits to the monastery.
            2. bober1982
              bober1982 9 November 2021 17: 48
              -5
              Quote: mmaxx
              To rest from the troubles of the world.

              Let us rest in the next world.
          4. Alf
            Alf 9 November 2021 17: 13
            +5
            Quote: bober1982
            rebellion against God, the devil - as the first rebel and was, the first revolutionary.

            Oh-oh-oh ... The smell of the church ... "All power from God" .. Somewhere I already heard this ...
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 9 November 2021 17: 51
              -5
              Quote: Alf
              .. I've already heard this somewhere ...

              And where exactly did you hear, if specifically.
              1. Alf
                Alf 9 November 2021 17: 58
                +5
                Quote: bober1982
                Quote: Alf
                .. I've already heard this somewhere ...

                And where exactly did you hear, if specifically.

                Just from the saints and heard. And he himself, and wrote. This is the basis - do not dare to rebel, submit and endure.
                Here is only one song of the Middle Ages says-When Adam plowed, and Eve was spinning who was a nobleman? If memory serves, the song of the German participants in the peasant uprisings.
                1. Alf
                  Alf 9 November 2021 18: 06
                  +4
                  Quote: Alf
                  Here is only one song of the Middle Ages says-When Adam plowed, and Eve was spinning who was a nobleman? If memory serves, the song of the German participants in the peasant uprisings.

                  And the classic text consists of 13 stanzas, a chorus after each ...

                  Wir sind des Geyers schwarzer Haufen, heia hoho,
                  Und wollen mit Tyrannen raufen, heia hoho.

                  Chorus:
                  Spieß voran, drauf und dran,
                  Setzt auf's Klosterdach den roten Hahn!

                  Wir wollens dem Herrn im Himmel klagen, kyrieleys,
                  daß wir den Pfaffen nicht dürfen totschlagen, kyrieleys.
                  Chorus

                  Uns führt der Florian Geyer an, trotz Acht und Bann,
                  den Bundschuh führt er in der Fahn ', hat Helm und Harnisch an.
                  Chorus

                  Als Adam grub und Eva spann, kyrieleys,
                  wo war denn da der Edelmann? kyrieleys.
                  Chorus

                  Des Edelmannes Kindelein, heia hoho,
                  das schicken wir in die Höll 'hinein, heia hoho.
                  Chorus

                  Des Edelmannes Töchterlein, heia hoho,
                  soll heute uns're Buhle sein, heia hoho.
                  Chorus

                  Nun gilt es Schloß, Abtei und Stift, heia hoho,
                  uns gilt nichts als die Heil'ge Schrift, heia hoho.
                  Chorus

                  Das Reich und der Kaiser hören uns nicht, heia hoho,
                  wir halten selber das Gericht, heia hoho.
                  Chorus

                  Ein gleich 'Gesetz das wollen wir han', heia hoho,
                  vom Fürsten bis zum Bauersmann, heia hoho.
                  Chorus

                  Wir woll'n nicht länger sein ein Knecht, heia hoho,
                  Leibeigen, frönig, ohne Recht, heia hoho.
                  Chorus

                  Bei Weinsberg setzt es Brand und Stank, heia hoho,
                  gar mancher über die Klinge sprang, heia hoho.
                  Chorus

                  Sie schlugen uns mit Prügeln platt, heia hoho,
                  und machten uns mit Hunger satt, heia hoho.
                  Chorus

                  Geschlagen ziehen wir nach Haus, heia hoho,
                  uns're Enkel fechten's besser aus, heia hoho.
                  Chorus We are Guyer's black squads, hey-ya, ho-ho,
                  And we want to fight tyrants, hey-ya, ho-ho.

                  Chorus:
                  Peaks forward, if without delay,
                  Let the red rooster on the monastery roof!

                  We want to tell God in Heaven, Lord have mercy,
                  That we don't want to kill priests, Lord have mercy.
                  Chorus

                  Florian Gayer leads us in spite of exile and ban
                  He put a peasant shoe on the banner, he has a helmet and armor.
                  Chorus

                  When Adam was plowing and Eve was spinning, Lord have mercy,
                  Where was the nobleman then? Lord have mercy.
                  Chorus

                  Little son of a nobleman, hey-ya, ho-ho,
                  Going to hell tonight, hey-ya, ho-ho.
                  Chorus

                  Nobleman's daughter, hey-ya, ho-ho,
                  Should be our mistress, hey-ya, ho-ho.
                  Chorus

                  Now it's a castle, an abbey and a monastery, hey-ya, ho-ho,
                  We don't need anything but the Holy Scriptures, hey-ya, ho-ho,
                  Chorus

                  The Empire and the Kaiser can't hear us, hey-ya, ho-ho,
                  And we consider ourselves a court, hey-ya, ho-ho.
                  Chorus

                  We want equality and law for ourselves, hey-i, ho-ho,
                  From the prince to the peasant, hey-ya, ho-ho.
                  Chorus

                  We don't want to serve the knights anymore, hey-i, ho-ho,
                  To be enslaved and disenfranchised, hey-ya, ho-ho.
                  Chorus

                  Fire and stench in Weinsberg, hey-ya, ho-ho,
                  Many got there with their fists, hey-ya, ho-ho.
                  Chorus

                  They beat and flogged us, hey-me, ho-ho,
                  But we satisfied our hunger, hey-ya, ho-ho.
                  Chorus

                  We come home broken, hey-ya, ho-ho,
                  But our grandchildren will fight better, hey-ya, ho-ho.
                  Chorus
                2. bober1982
                  bober1982 9 November 2021 18: 16
                  -4
                  Quote: Alf
                  Adam plowed and Eve spinned who was a nobleman?

                  The author of the lines is an English philosopher (?) - theologian (?), By the way, he called the Pope himself the viceroy of the devil on earth. Strange type, this author of the lines. Never mind.
                  1. Alf
                    Alf 9 November 2021 18: 28
                    +5
                    Quote: bober1982
                    Nevermind.

                    Understand. "If the fact does not fit into the system, so much the worse for the fact."
            2. mmaxx
              mmaxx 10 November 2021 06: 58
              +2
              In this regard, I do not understand the constant references to the "godless power" by our patriarch. What is he dissatisfied with?
              1. Alf
                Alf 10 November 2021 17: 41
                +3
                Quote: mmaxx
                What is he dissatisfied with?

                And who told you that Gundyay is dissatisfied with something?
                1. mmaxx
                  mmaxx 10 November 2021 19: 28
                  +1
                  Speech pushes. Remembers the revolution and the godless power. She shot everyone, and so on. I still respect him, but he is still a man. I could have thought with my head
                  1. Alf
                    Alf 10 November 2021 19: 32
                    +2
                    Quote: mmaxx
                    Speech pushes. Remembers the revolution and the godless power. She shot everyone, and so on. I still respect him, but he is still a man. I could have thought with my head

                    So that's how he thinks. The new power suits him, everything allows.
          5. karabas86
            karabas86 14 November 2021 18: 38
            0
            What are you there with the whole company of fly agarics overeating, carrying a blizzard, you don't know how to laugh or cry.
        2. Bar1
          Bar1 9 November 2021 11: 01
          -6
          Quote: tatra
          already your anti-Soviet forgeries. And in 1917, and according to the party census of 1922, two-thirds of the Bolsheviks were Russians.


          only decisions were made by non-Russians. Maly Sovnarkom, Lenin, Trotsky, Sverdlov - all Jews.
        3. your1970
          your1970 9 November 2021 12: 10
          -5
          Quote: tatra
          ... Both in 1917 and according to the party census of 1922, two-thirds of the Bolsheviks were Russians.

          Uh-huh ..... Sergei Borisovich Tursunkulov has just left me - according to the certificate of ownership of the land, and according to his passport he is Serik Berikkalievich (Kazakh) .....
          To my classic question "And what devil ??? !!!!" sad answer "And I was called so all my life, I thought so correctly ...."
          Now he will go to court to prove that he is him.
          Sergei Sergeevich Sergei, my classmate - who is by nationality? That's right - Kazakh ...
          moreover, in the passport of the USSR - he was Russian. Regardless of the fact that dad / mom / grandfathers / grandmothers are Kazakhs according to the documents, dad just wanted to write it down
    2. Serg65
      Serg65 9 November 2021 08: 43
      +2
      Quote: mmaxx
      And what about the Bolsheviks? Yes, they did nothing at all.

      The Bolsheviks made the revolution and the NEP, the rest was done by the Stalinist communists!
  7. north 2
    north 2 9 November 2021 07: 05
    -1
    here it is not enough to state only that after 1991 the country in the west returned to the borders of the Time of Troubles of the XNUMXth century. It is also necessary to understand where the movement will be further. To the borders of Russia before the times of Ivan the Great or to the borders of Russia during the times of Peter the Great, Catherine the Great and Stalin. After all, it is clear that Russia with its borders until the time of Ivan the Third was oppressed by many, and from the time of Ivan the Great to the time of Stalin, Russia, having returned all its lands in the west, became and was an invincible Empire. Russia of the times of the USSR was certainly also an Empire. Red Empire.
    As for the time of History, which Russia could afford to dispose of from the times of Ivan the Great to the times of Peter the Great and Catherine the Great to create an Empire, history did not provide such a time for Stalin to create the Red Empire of the USSR. History allotted Stalin only thirty years, compared to the History allotted three hundred years from the time of Ivan to the time of Catherine. Seeing how history compresses time exponentially, one can state that Putin is already catastrophically late with the restoration of the Russian Empire. History will no longer provide such a broad time frame as the Kings. History can no longer provide even as much Time as Stalin, who created the Red Empire of the USSR. And Putin seems to have started in Crimea and ... stopped. .. But without the status of the Empire, Russia cannot exist. This is an axiom. So what's next?
    1. ivan2022
      ivan2022 9 November 2021 07: 22
      -4
      It was not Putin who stopped. The development of Russian society stopped.
      As in the 17th century - - any ruler, even the secretary general, even the president, is the Tsar. Any boss is a gentleman and a lawless man, there is no law and justice. There is no understanding that breaking the Law is a crime.
      Having remained at this stage of development, society has no historical perspective.
  8. archiroll
    archiroll 9 November 2021 07: 34
    +9
    Calm down already. The elite decided that it was quite capitalistically to use the rockets behind the cover of the subsoil. You don't need so many people for a service. Slowly, so that there is no explosion, reduce to 20 million (19 in Moscow) and the margin will be ...
  9. anatoly-tchaicka
    anatoly-tchaicka 9 November 2021 07: 47
    +2
    Comrades are on the right path! ? or a well-fed hungry one is not a friend? and not only in diplomacy, education, economics, demography, but also in the sense of life, confidence in the future, in the absence of a goal. But not everything is so bad, but you have a lot of money.
    1. Alf
      Alf 9 November 2021 17: 15
      +7
      Quote: anatoly-tchaicka
      but I have a lot of money.

      "We" is who?
  10. Van 16
    Van 16 9 November 2021 07: 51
    +13
    As they say - feel the difference. And if you also take into account that much was built from scratch ... for example, astronautics, after all, there was an absolutely unexplored area, then the conclusion is quite simple, the USSR was developing, modern Russia, unfortunately, is degrading in many respects.
  11. Per se.
    Per se. 9 November 2021 08: 09
    +2
    Many discussions about tsarist Russia, the USSR and the current state of our country, often leave out of brackets the very process of the development of capitalism and the formation of transnational monopolies. The struggle for world domination, for leadership in the world began long ago and never ended. The First and Second World Wars were a consequence of this process. The February revolution and the abdication of the tsar were not created by the Bolsheviks, but it was the Bolsheviks who created the Soviet Union and saved Russia from collapse, from the arrival of the pro-Western Gaidars, Chubais and Yeltsins already in 1917. If after 1991 the renegades got a space and nuclear superpower, then in 1917 there was an agrarian, semi-literate country, huge tsarist debts to Western creditors, aggravated by the war, and, the greatest human losses at the front.

    In World War I, Kaiser's Germany was the main contender for the world throne of capitalism; in World War II, the victorious Anglo-Saxons made anti-USSR from defeated Germany, anti-communism out of Nazism. The West did not need a strong Russia, especially an independent socialist one, therefore, the problem of a new, independent pole of power on the planet had to be solved by someone else's hands. Then the USSR withstood, moreover, became a nuclear and space superpower with a bloc of socialist countries.

    What now? There is no "multipolar world", there is one pole of power, ruled by transnational monopolies and behind-the-scenes multi-billionaire puppeteers. Our powers that be can puff their cheeks as much as they want and threaten the West with their fist, this will only increase their internal rating and no more. It is impossible to live in selected capitalism, with an already established world leader and owner, and to be free from its laws. Especially when our "elite" keeps everything acquired by "back-breaking labor" from the enemies of Russia, being soul and body with the West. If for Alexander III the army and the navy were allies, for the present times they were replaced by oil and gas. Optimization and reduction of health care, education and science with industry, this is the result of 30 years of bourgeois power. The Soviet margin of safety ends, after which the renegades can surrender to their Western masters, in the name of "the world of humanism and tolerance." I would like to believe that their time will end before the last "point of no return" is passed.

    Thanks to the author for the article that makes you think.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 10 November 2021 17: 47
      -1
      If after 1991 the renegades got a space and nuclear superpower, then in 1917 there was an agrarian, semi-literate country, huge tsarist debts to Western creditors, aggravated by the war, and, the greatest human losses at the front. If not the Revolution, all the problems would have been sorted out before 1930 with the help of the same Western support that the USSR used in the 30s during industrialization, since the country was not plundered and destroyed into a civilian and there would not have been any WWII since the Brest Peace had not happened to Germany would have overcome and divided as Zhofr suggested and all Western countries developed and recovered perfectly without any communists - the Bolsheviks with their fucking unnecessary experiments that ended in failure because they were originally designed to create a fictional utopian society if nothing of this had happened now Russia could well to live like the Netherlands, since there would be no reckless arms races of support for free and unequal barter of half the world of restructuring of privatization and numerous megaprojects on which huge funds and resources were used and everything else.
      1. karabas86
        karabas86 14 November 2021 18: 46
        0
        Shura, keep cutting, they are golden.
  12. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 9 November 2021 08: 12
    +5
    And a white victory would lead to the establishment of a fascist regime in the style of Mussolini or Horthy, financially and politically dependent on Western creditors.
    So in 1991 there was a victory for the whites-counterrevolution. Surprisingly, at the second congress of the RSDSRP, the Bolsheviks won, the opportunists were in the minority. At the last congress of the KPSS, the opportunists won, the communists remained in the minority.
  13. tatra
    tatra 9 November 2021 08: 23
    -7
    Both the supporters of the USSR and the enemies of the USSR, everything they did, spoke and wrote, proved everything about themselves, including the fact that the supporters of the USSR were always proud and proud of what they did, starting with the October Revolution, and there that they did with their country and people after it, then the enemies of the USSR for 30 years cowardly whine in chorus that they had nothing to do with their counter-revolution in their anti-Soviet Perestroika, and what they did with their country and people after it.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 9 November 2021 10: 17
      -5
      Quote: tatra
      enemies of the USSR 30 years in chorus cowardly whine that they "have nothing to do with it"

      The manipulation with the figure of 30 years is an attempt to put the Trotskyist Gorbayev-Yeltsin perestroika on a par with the present day, and thus to attribute all the consequences of perestroika to Putin. This is the purpose of the figure 30. More details - in my comment above.

      This is nothing new. All the atrocities committed by the Trotskyists from 1917 to 1924 and today are attributed to the Bolsheviks, who only began to seize control from the 24th year ...
  14. Olgovich
    Olgovich 9 November 2021 09: 33
    -15
    And the victory of the whites would lead to the establishment of a fascist regime in the style of Mussolini or Horthy, financially and politically dependent on Western creditors, in which one would not even dream of any "single and indivisible", and the collapse of a single Russian state was very similar to what we observe today, but in the 20s. XX century

    Russia never had any prerequisites for fascism, for the united and indivisible in the Civil War, the nationalists were a trifle and she coped with them easily, Novorossia, Slobozhanschina, northern Kazakhstan never intended to leave Russia, and today a single Russian state would have both Odessa and Nikolaev , and Verny and Uralsk.

    were able to offer an image of the future, which the Russian peasant, who lived in 1914, could not even imagine.

    This is true. In 1914, the peasant could not even imagine that he would work off the corvee (oblige the number of workdays) on, allegedly, "his" land (where he was deprived of rights), pay monetary and material (in the 20th century!) Dues, after which from HIS cow he was only left with ... MANAVO and did not have a state pension, sick leave and a passport until the 70s

    ... In 1947 food ration cards were canceled. In this work, the USSR could rely only on its own resources, and in fact it was necessary to establish life not only in the USSR, but also to feed the countries of Europe, the countries of "future people's democracy."

    the author does not notice that the peasants did not have any cards and survived on their own, and feeding in eastern Europe led to starvation deaths of 0,8-2,5 million people, when starving Romania survived on Soviet bread, and neighboring Moldova lost hundreds of thousands of people with cannibalism ...

    to Western Civilization, was able to move the threat of a first strike to a significant distance from the Russian borders.

    What can not be said about the current state of the country after 30 years. In the west, the country returned to the borders of the Time of Troubles of the XNUMXth century, when Smolensk, Pskov and Novgorod were border fortresses.
    The work of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the USSR and the Russian Federation for thirty years cannot be compared in any way.

    The author does not see that Russia's one hundred today's western borders near Belgorod were established precisely under the USSR, which gave Russian Kharkov and Yekterinoslav to Ukraine, who brought up the Ukrainian nation there, to which he gave the right to exit.

    The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation cannot return Novorossiya, it is foolish to reproach him for this, a reproach to those who forced it into the ruin and created the ruin itself.

    "Success" in Eastern Europe: success cannot be just an unhappy forty years of being there while at the same time humiliating and ruinous (and absolutely useless) feeding everyone at their own expense, success is 70 years of US bases and nuclear weapons in Germany. depending on the comm regime there is a mistake: our bases had to be fixed there forever in peace treaties with Hungary and Romania-Slvakia, for their crimes in the Second World War

    By 1941, the USSR had become the number two economic power, overtaking even Germany.



    The development trend before the VOR led to the same results by 1941, but without catastrophic losses in demography and freedom.

    By 1941, the USSR was catastrophically lagging behind Russia in 1913 in the consumption of food, clothing, and housing

    Only in 1918, in the midst of the "extermination of everyone and everything by the Bolsheviks" was opened a huge number of research institutes

    And physically destroyed many scientists of the staff-even more skillfully from hunger-from non-support. And the research institutes were created on the initiative of the SCIENTISTS themselves on the basis of the ALREADY EXISTING resources ALREADY working in these areas.

    President of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR Oldenburg:.
    it is necessary ... to save both scientific work and people for this work in constant debates, meetings, trips to Moscow, writing and defense of endless memoranda, having, on the one hand, rude and domineering people, on the other, nervous intelligentsia <...>. And this is from morning to evening, without a day of respite. And next to this, searches (we had 6), arrests, eternal troubles in the Cheka - tears and the suffering of those who remain often futile, sometimes successful attempts to save people from execution, who have relatives - experiences with the withdrawal to the execution of neighbors in their cells when I was in prison (I think that it is easier to die yourself).

    And the background for all this death, death without end, people near and far, leaving widows and orphans.

    Nothing to talk about tremendous number of dead scientists.

    Russian science with bitterness and pain I must say that if the position in which the new economic policy puts it lasts, it will give nothing to those who expect from it (and rightly) an indication of ways and means of getting rid of suffering. She will soon only be able to offer a stone instead of bread

    Such is the comment "concern for scientists, then they realized, but HOW MUCH is lost and WHAT could be science
    After the civil war, the RSFSR had a ruined economy,
    The Bolshevik GW and destroyed the economy: PMV Russia is the ONLY country with an increase in industrial production

    The RF "inherited" a highly educated population and a highly developed economy.

    population, yes (although we recall Chumak), but in economics, let the author find out that in the USSR material resources and energy were spent on a unit of production 2,5 times higherthan in the West, labor productivity was THREE-FIVE times lower than in the West, complete delivery to scientific and technological revolution, etc. Because of this, the restructuring performed, of course, is monstrous

    The demographic development today is a consequence of the CATASTROPHE laid down YESTERDAY, and it began in the blissful 1930s, this is how demography is arranged:
    not a single generation of Russiansborn after 1910 and entering an active reproductive age, starting from the era of the "great turning point", the late 1920s - early 1930s, did not reproduce itself.


    1. Illanatol
      Illanatol 9 November 2021 14: 12
      +5
      Russia never had any prerequisites for fascism, for the united and indivisible in the Civil War, the nationalists were a trifle and she coped with them easily, Novorossia, Slobozhanschina, northern Kazakhstan never intended to leave Russia, and today a single Russian state would have both Odessa and Nikolaev , and Verny and Uralsk.


      Where was it easy to deal with nationalists?
      The tsarist government could not cope with the uprising in Kazakhstan, as a result, over time, the Kazakh SSR appeared.
      Maybe "one and indivisible" coped with Pilsudski and Mannerheim?
      It would not have had anything and there would not have been any single "Russian state".
      In our North - the British. The question of including Arkhangelsk and Murmansk into their empire has already been seriously discussed. In the south - the French in the Crimea. In the Far East - the Japanese and the Yankees. The Turks and the same British set their sights on the Caucasus. Poles dream of "Greater Poland from sea to sea".
      White armies would not have coped with all of them, especially since the white armies themselves depended on "Western partners".
      Only the Red Army was able to sweep out the invaders.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 10 November 2021 06: 58
        -6
        Quote: Illanatol
        de it with the nationalists easily coped?

        with Georgians, ukronauionists, Kazakh nationalists, in the Caucasus.

        But the Nazinalists had a Russophobe Bolshevik ally.
        Quote: Illanatol
        as a result, over time, the Kazakh SSR appeared.

        fool
        How many TEN years will it take?
        Quote: Illanatol
        Maybe "one and indivisible" coped with Pilsudski and Mannerheim?

        yours prevented - the allies of the Pilsudskys, who together opposed Russia
        Quote: Illanatol
        It would have nothing and there would not be any single "Russian state"

        It was a THOUSAND years, but it disappeared only with you and as a result of you and would have lived without you
        Quote: Illanatol
        In our North - the British. The question of including Arkhangelsk and Murmansk into their empire has already been seriously discussed. In the south - the French in the Crimea. In the Far East - the Japanese and the Yankees. The Turks and the same British set their sights on the Caucasus. Poles dream of "Greater Poland from sea to sea".
        White armies would not have coped with all of them, especially since the white armies themselves depended on "Western partners".

        the allies of the German occupiers, the Bolsheviks, naturally became a target for the Entente's beating. How Iran was occupied by the USSR in 1941, which is logical.
        Quote: Illanatol
        Only the Red Army was able to sweep out the invaders.

        do not write this stupid nonsense: when they themselves wanted to leave, then they left, and the Japanese in the East of the United States were ordered to leave

        There were NO "fronts" and battles "with the USA, France, etc., there was not a trace, do not rave.
        1. Illanatol
          Illanatol 10 November 2021 13: 52
          +2
          with Georgians, ukronauionists, Kazakh nationalists, in the Caucasus.


          Oh really?
          What kind of victories did the "whites" have?
          Did you subjugate the Caucasus or did they defeat Petliura and Makhno?

          It was a THOUSAND years, but it disappeared only with you and as a result of you and would have lived without you


          There was no "Russian state" for 1000 years, it's good to rave. There were only separate principalities that cut each other there, that the Polovtsy and Pechenegs were nervously smoking on the sidelines. However, some Russian princes were not entirely Russian, there is a lot of Turkic blood in their veins.

          the allies of the German occupiers, the Bolsheviks, naturally became a target for the Entente's beating.


          So how did you manage to shorten it? Or did you have to get out, not eating salty?

          When they themselves wanted to leave, then they left,


          They left when they realized that they would not break off. Their henchmen, the White Guards, were beaten, there was nothing to catch.
          Some (the French in particular) were also afraid of the "plague of Bolshevism", which could infect them.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 10 November 2021 14: 57
            -3
            Quote: Illanatol
            Oh really?
            What kind of victories did the "whites" have?
            Did you subjugate the Caucasus or did they defeat Petliura and Makhno?

            just like that: beat them lightly when your bandits did not interfere.
            Quote: Illanatol
            There was no "Russian state" for 1000 years, it's good to rave. There were only separate principalities that cut each other there, that the Polovtsy and Pechenegs were nervously smoking on the sidelines. However, some Russian princes were not entirely Russian, there is a lot of Turkic blood in their veins.

            It was and is now, but yours, fleeting, for an hour, is not at all
            Quote: Illanatol
            So how did you manage to shorten it? Or did you have to get out, not eating salty?

            of course: the traitors and bandits were not allowed to side with their allies, the German occupiers, to hand over weapons to them and to hand over German / Austrian prisoners of war to them on the western front.

            Quote: Illanatol
            They left when they realized that they would not break off. Their henchmen, the White Guards, were beaten, there was nothing to catch.
            .

            completed their tasks and left, what else can I do? By the way, they refused the Bologuards and sided with the Bolsheviks.
            Quote: Illanatol
            Some (the French in particular) were also afraid of the "plague of Bolshevism", which could infect them.

            They were afraid of the onset of such a regime in which people dying of hunger arranged by inept people will begin to eat people, as was the case in a "nogodny" country in 1920-21,32, 34,46-47, XNUMX-XNUMX
          2. karabas86
            karabas86 14 November 2021 18: 53
            0
            If you clashed with this frame for the first time, then you know he is insane, he hears no one except himself, and does not answer uncomfortable questions, the demagogue is still the same. However, like all monarchists.
    2. alexvmar
      alexvmar 9 November 2021 16: 03
      -5
      It is clear that the author is either nostalgic for the communists and is there, or simply does not know much. The Russian Federation did not get anything from the USSR, except for a headache, how now to feed all those who remained, "thanks" to the actions of the CPSU, without work, since they destroyed all cooperation ties. The most interesting thing is that it was only under Putin that these missing elements of the industry began to be restored.
      1. karabas86
        karabas86 14 November 2021 18: 56
        0
        Can you tell us in more detail what is being restored, the production of machine tools? Bearings? Or civilian aircraft? As the Rosstat does not know about it.
    3. karabas86
      karabas86 14 November 2021 18: 50
      0
      Oh, here he is, the main consumer of fly agarics. I thought it would pass by.
  15. ee2100
    ee2100 9 November 2021 09: 45
    +9
    Everyone sees their own in the article. In some ways, the author's statements are controversial.
    Edward wrote this article as a concerned citizen. Who sees that over the past 30 years there has been a complete setback in almost all directions. And the fact that the Russian Federation has moved from the "zone of risky agriculture" to the main exporter of grain is mainly due to global warming.
    But he is still a historian, and how could he not know that nothing is eternal!
    This regime will also come to an end. How will the change of power take place - according to the light version or according to the "Russian merciless revolt"?
    In my opinion, this is the main message of this article.
  16. depressant
    depressant 9 November 2021 09: 55
    +7
    The second half of the 20th century was marked by the destruction of the workers' collectives of large industrial enterprises. For the first half of the 20th century showed that a work collective united in a trade union is equivalent to the owner of an enterprise. Agreeing with the form of ownership - in our country with the socialist, in the capitalist countries with the bourgeois, that is, individual, powerful workers' collectives through the trade unions unanimously put forward their demands and consistently achieved their fulfillment.
    From this point of view, the USSR in the first half of the 20th century became a state form and an exponent of these demands, which spurred trade union movements throughout the rest of the world with its example and by the 70s allowed workers to achieve great success in defending their rights.

    But it so happened that a technological revolution came to the aid of world capital. Microcircuits. The very ones that, being embodied in robotic products, are capable of replacing any huge work collective with a technological line with three workers. There is no working collective, and there is no powerful trade union that talks on equal terms with the owner of the enterprise.
    In the USSR, starting with Khrushchev, they took a different path. Large workers' collectives with their established habit of speaking on an equal footing with the authorities, as colleagues correctly noted here, really began to dilute and, if possible, replace people from the countryside with their narrow petty-bourgeois thinking, cultivating conciliatory sentiments. However, the "new workers" did not understand why the factory and factory gates were wide open in front of them. They thought that it was the authorities' concern for them and were terribly grateful to her for this. Yes, they are so grateful that they did not dare to contradict her in anything, they cursed the old workers with evil and could only assent to the authorities. And the authorities only looked with a grin at the children's behavior of such collectives and prepared for the seizure and appropriation of public property for personal use.

    And when these naive "new workers" in the 90s and in the first twenty years of the 21st century were bulged out and thrown out into the street through these same factory gates, and the gates were slammed in front of their noses and everything that was inside the fence was destroyed (according to some data, from 80 to 90 thousand enterprises) with the help of artificial bankruptcies, these discouraged naive people who did not want to inherit from the old working collectives the skills of a joint struggle for their rights, all this petty-bourgeois mass suddenly realized that they had been deceived, and how resist deception, did not know and does not know until now. No skills, no struggle!
    And now cybernetization is coming, the same when a work collective of 1000 people is replaced by a technological line with three service workers. And the descendants of the "new workers" by origin from collective farmers will be digitized in full. So as not to rock the boat.
    We need to think about this.
    We know who is to blame. What to do?

    I am deliberately not yet touching on the role of the intelligentsia in the destruction of the USSR and other aspects of the tragedy that took place. I do not deliberately touch upon the new "migration of peoples" in the form of migrant invasions.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 9 November 2021 11: 19
      +6
      And every day is a new step towards a new digital world. In what swamp and who will be able to sit out?
    2. BAI
      BAI 9 November 2021 11: 25
      -4
      The second half of the 20th century was marked by the destruction of the workers' collectives of large industrial enterprises.

      Well, perhaps we should start with the fact that this is not someone's malicious intent, but an inevitable consequence of scientific and technological progress, when automation and robotization leads to a reduction in the number of employees.
      After all, no one is surprised by the reduction in the number of villages, because the development of agricultural machinery made the previous number of peasants unnecessary - 1 tractor will plow as much as 1000 horses. + outflow of surplus workers in the countryside to cities, to factories where there were not enough workers. Now a new stage of progress is a reduction in the number of workers employed in unskilled, non-creative labor. Everything is logical and natural. If a country wants to develop, this is inevitable.
      In Moscow - a separate song. There, factories were closed for 2 reasons:
      1. That there was no human material for protests in the capital.
      2. The land is not just expensive, but very expensive. For speculation, it must be cleared of industrial enterprises.
      1. Alf
        Alf 9 November 2021 17: 21
        +4
        Quote: BAI
        After all, no one is surprised by the decrease in the number of villages, because the development of agricultural machinery made the previous number of peasants unnecessary - 1 tractor will plow as much as 1000 horses. + outflow of surplus workers in the countryside to cities, to factories where there were not enough workers.

        I agree.
        Quote: BAI
        Now a new stage of progress is a reduction in the number of workers employed in unskilled, non-creative labor.

        I partially agree.
        Is the reduction in the number of factories also a new stage of progress? Moreover, if two factories were demolished, and instead of them one was built, but with the same productivity, this is normal. But this isn’t ..
    3. Illanatol
      Illanatol 16 November 2021 09: 12
      0
      who once did not want to inherit from the old workers' collectives the skills of a joint struggle for their rights, so all this petty-bourgeois mass suddenly realized that they had been deceived,


      Since when did the lumpen become a petty bourgeois mass?
      The petty-bourgeois masses in our conditions are hucksters and black-market people, they were quite happy with the "wind of change", joined the slender ranks of "cooperators", some even became quite large entrepreneurs.

      And now cybernetization is coming, the same when a work collective of 1000 people is replaced by a technological line with three service workers. And the descendants of the "new workers" by origin from collective farmers will be digitized in full. So as not to rock the boat.


      It has long been coming, coming ... but ... in fact, there are more workers in the world today than half a century ago.
      They are just in other countries. Ordinary robots are not always profitable, biorobots created by nature are still quite competitive, since sometimes they are simply cheaper.
      Yes, technical progress sometimes reduces jobs in some industries, but at the same time creates new and even new industries in others.
      Technological lines also have to be developed, produced, maintained and repaired by someone as needed.
  17. BAI
    BAI 9 November 2021 11: 08
    -7
    Powerful social infrastructure: an extensive system of preschool and school, and medical institutions: hospitals and clinics. A huge number of sanatoriums, dispensaries, boarding houses, health centers and pioneer recreation camps. Children's sports schools and complexes, sports palaces and swimming pools, some of the best stadiums in the world.

    The developed social sphere, inherited by Russia from the USSR, played the role of the ancient Indian white elephant. That was given for ruin to the unwanted, and social services - you can not refuse, and the costs are huge.
    1. Illanatol
      Illanatol 9 November 2021 14: 04
      +5
      social - you can't refuse, and the costs are huge.


      Nonsense. Investments in a person, in the long term, are the most necessary.
      Abolish the "social system" and soon there will be no one to create surplus value.
      Let's roll back to the level of the 19th century and they will stupidly devour us.
    2. Alf
      Alf 9 November 2021 17: 24
      +7
      Quote: BAI
      The developed social sphere, inherited by Russia from the USSR, played the role of the ancient Indian white elephant. That was given for ruin to the unwanted, and social services - you can not refuse, and the costs are huge.

      Compare life expectancy before and after the Revolution.

      So much for the "unnecessary" social network.
      1. grak33
        grak33 9 November 2021 17: 41
        -6
        Quote: Alf
        Compare life expectancy before and after the Revolution.

        Have you ever tried to compare such indicators in the world?
        In vain.
        Be very surprised, but in the world, life expectancy has also increased. And they did without any Bolshevik communists. And even more than in the USSR.
        1. Alf
          Alf 9 November 2021 17: 44
          +6
          Quote: grak33
          Have you ever tried to compare such indicators in the world?

          So give the data.
          And tell me, please, when in developed countries they began to introduce social services, and on a massive scale? After what Event?
          1. grak33
            grak33 9 November 2021 18: 39
            -5
            Quote: Alf
            And tell me, please, when in developed countries they began to introduce social services, and on a massive scale? After what Event?

            After Bismarck's reforms in Germany.
            1. Alf
              Alf 9 November 2021 18: 51
              +6
              Quote: grak33
              Quote: Alf
              And tell me, please, when in developed countries they began to introduce social services, and on a massive scale? After what Event?

              After Bismarck's reforms in Germany.

              All segments of the population? And paid vacations? And paid sick leave? And a paid pension?
              1. grak33
                grak33 9 November 2021 19: 02
                -5
                Quote: Alf
                All segments of the population? And paid vacations? And paid sick leave? And a paid pension?

                Take an interest in the meaning of Bismarck's reforms on the Internet yourself.
                As for the Soviet regime and the socialism that replaced it, people lived worse under the Soviet regime than under the autocracy.
                And under socialism it is worse than under a conscientious power.
                And now people in the post-Soviet space live rather poorly precisely because of the consequences of socialism. Which almost completely DE-industrialized the country. By making it a raw material appendage of the West.
                1. Alf
                  Alf 9 November 2021 19: 20
                  +4
                  Quote: grak33
                  And under socialism it is worse than under a conscientious power.
                  And now people in the post-Soviet space live rather poorly precisely because of the consequences of socialism.

                  This is flattening !!!
                  1. grak33
                    grak33 9 November 2021 19: 37
                    -5
                    Quote: Alf
                    This is flattening !!!

                    Not at all.
                    Any sane person understands this common truth.
                    But alas, not all people are sane.
                    1. Alf
                      Alf 9 November 2021 19: 41
                      +3
                      Quote: grak33
                      But alas, not all people are sane.

                      You are right, to share the Soviet era and socialism it smacks of Zeus-Carbine, do not be remembered by nightfall. That one has both the Soviet-German war and the DP-heavy rifle on the bipod and the T-34 and IS-2 anti-tank self-propelled guns ...
                      1. grak33
                        grak33 9 November 2021 20: 19
                        -6
                        Quote: Alf
                        You are right, to share the Soviet era and socialism it smacks of Zeus-Carbine

                        I don’t know what you have and what smells like, but the Soviet power in the USSR was quite officially collapsed and replaced by socialism (the beginning of its “construction”) in December 1927. And in December 1934, the “construction of socialism” in the USSR was announced completed.
                        It was not bad for you to know the main milestones in the history of the country.

                        Quote: Alf
                        That and the Soviet-German war

                        I'm even afraid to ask, why, there was no such war.
                        And on June 22.06.1941, XNUMX, did it not start at one hour?
                        It was also called the Second World War, if you don't know.

                        Quote: Alf
                        DP-heavy rifle

                        DP was analogous to the American BAR.
                        BAR translates to Browning Automatic Rifle. AR-automatic rifle.
                        Yes, both BAR and DP were automatic rifles. These are not machine guns, machine guns have different performance characteristics.
                      2. Alf
                        Alf 9 November 2021 20: 21
                        +4
                        Quote: grak33
                        DP was analogous to the American BAR.
                        BAR translates to Browning Automatic Rifle. AR-automatic rifle.
                        Yes, both BAR and DP were automatic rifles. These are not machine guns, machine guns have different performance characteristics.

                        Hi Carbine ... Have you been released again?
                      3. grak33
                        grak33 9 November 2021 20: 32
                        -5
                        Quote: Alf
                        Hi Carbine ... Have you been released again?

                        Who are you talking to?
                        Browing Aautomatic Rifle or abbreviation BAR (from English - "Browning automatic rifle") - automatic rifle designed by John Moses Browning.
                        If anything, "light machine gun" in English is called light machine gun(LMG).
                        Difference between AR и LMG can you understand?
                      4. Alf
                        Alf 9 November 2021 20: 34
                        +5
                        Quote: grak33
                        Who are you talking to?

                        To the one who considers the DP as a rifle.
                      5. grak33
                        grak33 9 November 2021 20: 49
                        -5
                        Quote: Alf
                        who the DP considers a rifle

                        So DP is an automatic rifle.
                        DP TTX have such.
                      6. Alf
                        Alf 9 November 2021 20: 51
                        +3
                        Quote: grak33
                        Quote: Alf
                        who the DP considers a rifle

                        So DP is an automatic rifle.
                        DP TTX have such.

                        Hello Carbine ...
                      7. grak33
                        grak33 10 November 2021 10: 22
                        -5
                        Quote: Alf
                        Hello Carbine ...

                        Well, if the performance characteristics of weapons are not an argument for you, then I wash my hands.
                  2. karabas86
                    karabas86 14 November 2021 19: 00
                    +1
                    There it no longer flattens, there it flies into parallel worlds. laughing
                2. mmaxx
                  mmaxx 10 November 2021 07: 50
                  +2
                  What the hell is this !? I'm living worse right now than my ancestors under the king? We will not forget, we will not forgive!
                  If there are no brains, can you at least have eyes?
                  And where do people find such grass?
        2. Illanatol
          Illanatol 10 November 2021 13: 59
          +3
          Be very surprised, but in the world, life expectancy has also increased. And they did without any Bolshevik communists. And even more than in the USSR.


          Increased. The bourgeois gentlemen were forced to make concessions, fortunately before our eyes there was an example of what an excessively tough class policy towards the working people leads to on the example of Russia. So I had to start sharing, so as not to lose everything.
          So it was not without the communists. If the USSR had not existed, capitalism would have had a less "human face".
          And after the collapse of the socialist camp and the USSR, the bourgeois are trying to play back and carry out liberal reforms, so that the situation of the working people again began to deteriorate. And the "social world" has become less peaceful in Western countries. Again strikes, strikes, all sorts of "yellow vests" and so on in the same spirit.
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 10 November 2021 17: 24
        -1
        For 30 years, everyone's period of life has grown and this not only concerned the USSR.
    3. grak33
      grak33 9 November 2021 17: 43
      -8
      Quote: BAI
      The developed social sphere, inherited by Russia from the USSR,

      Was there a developed social sphere in the USSR?
      Amazing next door.
      It looks like you have no idea what "developed social" is.
      1. Alf
        Alf 9 November 2021 18: 19
        +5
        Quote: grak33
        Amazing next door.

        For you, yes! When did the capital countries introduce compulsory paid holidays?
        At the same time, almost all Western countries, without any revolutions, introduced paid vacations for their citizens. True, it took some time to overcome the greed of employers. It was first installed in France, where, in 1922, Jean-Jacques Durand, a humble technical editor of the Parisian magazine Información, managed to solicit a paid leave from work for rest. Other countries followed France.

        Do you know after what event in November 1917 this happened?
        And when was the paid sick leave introduced there?
        1. grak33
          grak33 9 November 2021 18: 32
          -5
          Quote: Alf
          When did the capital countries introduce compulsory paid holidays?

          Quote: Alf
          And when was the paid sick leave introduced there?

          Do you want to surprise me with the message that in the capitalist countries someone once lived worse than fellow citizens in the USSR?
          It will not work, I myself have lived that "Paradise" for a long time. And I perfectly remember his "charms".

          Quote: Alf
          Do you know after what event in November 1917 this happened?

          I know that after the February-March 1917 revolution
          That revolution could not defend itself and was destroyed by the reactionary (counter-revolutionary) Bolshevik coup of October 1917, January 1918.
          By the way, the main "events" took place in early January 1918, and not at all in October 1917.
          1. Alf
            Alf 9 November 2021 18: 34
            +4
            Quote: grak33
            Do you want to surprise me with the message that in the capitalist countries someone once lived worse than fellow citizens in the USSR?
            It will not work, I myself have lived that "Paradise" for a long time. And I perfectly remember his "charms".

            Ie, you have nothing to argue in fact. Which should have been proven.
            1. grak33
              grak33 10 November 2021 10: 24
              -5
              Quote: Alf
              Ie, you have nothing to argue in fact.

              You cannot prove to the blind that the sun rises in the east.
        2. karabas86
          karabas86 14 November 2021 19: 04
          0
          You do not understand - this is different.
      2. karabas86
        karabas86 14 November 2021 19: 03
        0
        What do you all smoke? Share your secret?
  18. alexvmar
    alexvmar 9 November 2021 15: 56
    -3
    I do not agree that the Russian Federation received the above. The entire economy in the USSR was interconnected. An example with the Ukrainians in aviation. There were huge chains of unified cooperation in all technological sectors. And in one fell swoop, these chains collapsed, i.e. the industry simply ceased to exist as a whole. And only now, when more or less people were fed, the country was filled with everything necessary, they were able to replace those very destroyed chains.
    1. Alf
      Alf 9 November 2021 17: 25
      +4
      Quote: alexvmar
      were able to replace those very broken chains.

      Where do the microcircuits come from? And from whose parts are the machines assembled?
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 10 November 2021 17: 21
        -2
        It doesn't matter, the main thing is that the machines are no worse than Western ones and there is a choice of computers and other equipment and equipment - customers themselves decide what and from whom and, most importantly, how much to buy.
        1. Alf
          Alf 10 November 2021 17: 44
          +3
          Quote: Vadim237
          the main thing is that the machines are no longer produced worse than Western ones

          Collected from imported parts, but this is completely different. How many completely Russian machines do you have?
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 12 November 2021 01: 10
            -2
            20 STANOVskoye 80% of parts of domestic production.
            1. Alf
              Alf 12 November 2021 11: 08
              +4
              Quote: Vadim237
              20 STANOVskoye 80% of parts of domestic production.

              Only now, without these 20%, the machine is a pile of spare parts.

              It is the same as if the VAZ produced the car completely, but the batteries were brought from there. There is only one detail, but the car does not go without it.
    2. karabas86
      karabas86 14 November 2021 19: 06
      +1
      And who destroyed these economic ties, under the slogan "enough to feed the outskirts."
  19. grak33
    grak33 9 November 2021 16: 53
    -6
    As for the Russian Revolution, in essence, it was the Great Peasant Revolution, which resolved the irreconcilable class issue between the noble feudal lords and their former serfs, the peasants.

    Such a revolution in Russia took place in 1861.

    The Bolsheviks, who led, and then saddled and calmed the elements of popular anarchy, through a painful and difficult search, saved the Russian statehood,

    In fact, the RFDR, the last reincarnation of the Republic of Ingushetia, was dismissed on 06.01.1918/XNUMX/XNUMX by the Bolsheviks by decree of the Council of People's Commissars.
    That is, the Bolsheviks were simply separatists. Which on the site of Great Russia founded the RSFSR. The legal successor of which is the Russian Federation.

    And as A. Toynbee wrote, the Western Bolsheviks carried out the Second Russian modernization, which led the USSR to victory in World War II.

    You shouldn't be referring to this Toynba. Judging by the nonsense he wrote, he is as stupid as a felt boot.

    Without the social revolution of 1917, such a scenario would have been completely impossible: without the expropriation of the means of production, land and subsoil from individuals in the ownership of the entire people, no Second Russian modernization would have happened, as well as the victory of the USSR-Russia in the clash of two civilizations.

    This is generally nonsense that does not require comment.
    And any sane person understands this.

    And the victory of the whites would lead to the establishment of a fascist regime in the style of Mussolini or Horthy, financially and politically dependent on Western creditors, in which there would be no dream of any "single and indivisible",

    You have everything turned upside down.
    It was the Bolsheviks who dissolved the RFDR / RI on 06.01.1918/XNUMX/XNUMX and created the RSFSR on a part of its territory, on the territory of Great Russia, which they headed. That is, they were separatists.
    And the Russians (the Bolsheviks called them "whites") were unionists. And against such a collapse of Russia, they fought with the Bolsheviks and other separatists.

    I did not read further.
  20. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 9 November 2021 17: 19
    +5
    but in economics, let the author find out that in the USSR, material resources and energy were spent on a unit of production 2,5 times higher than in the West,

    This is a typical "fake nuis". If there was some kind of product for which more energy was spent in the USSR than in the West, then in the worst case by 10-20%, and if you make corrections for the climate, then in most cases it is better. I am engaged in this (the energy intensity of the industry and the economy in general for more than 30 years).
    labor productivity was THREE-FIVE times lower than the western one, complete delivery to scientific and technological revolution, etc. Because of this, the restructuring performed, of course, is monstrous

    Another "fake". Labor productivity per person of the population, per unit of domestic product at purchasing power parity, per person employed in all sectors in the USSR is fully comparable with developed capital countries. There is no need to comment on the "lag" in the scientific and technological revolution.
    1. Alf
      Alf 9 November 2021 18: 32
      +7
      Quote: Kostadinov
      Another "fake". Labor productivity per person of the population, per unit of domestic product at purchasing power parity, per person employed in all sectors in the USSR is fully comparable with developed capital countries. There is no need to comment on the "lag" in the scientific and technological revolution.

      Mr. Major! hi
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 10 November 2021 17: 18
      -1
      He then caught up but continued to produce outdated products of civilian and not only sectors that lagged behind the western ones by 10-15 years, and it doesn't matter how much of this obsolete trash and buckets with bolts according to the state plan you release and how it will affect the GDP - this is a direct road to bankruptcy countries that happened in the 80s when the budget for all obligations became deficit and in 1986 there was a catastrophe, it went into an even greater deficit due to well-known events.
    3. karabas86
      karabas86 14 November 2021 19: 10
      +1
      You can't prove it to them. What do they smoke there, what kind of mushrooms do they eat?
  21. Maks1995
    Maks1995 9 November 2021 18: 47
    +5
    Well.
    The comparison is clear.

    But still nothing can be done. The elite firmly holds power, and jokingly plays up all sorts of "enthusiasts"
    The 5th column, the Chubais there, Sobchaks and the Family are still on horseback and covered in chocolate.

    And the role of the USSR was taken by China
    1. grak33
      grak33 9 November 2021 19: 03
      -3
      Quote: Max1995
      And the role of the USSR was taken by China

      At least don't make people laugh.
      The place of the USSR was taken not even by the DPRK, but by Cuba.
      And China and the USSR finally parted ways back in 1979.
      1. Maks1995
        Maks1995 10 November 2021 09: 50
        +1
        I'm glad you're funny.

        In the article, and the present, the emphasis is on economics.

        And the cube is somewhere far away
        1. grak33
          grak33 10 November 2021 10: 20
          -6
          Quote: Max1995
          In the article, and the present, the emphasis is on economics.

          All clear.
          But what does today's China have to do with the USSR?
          There is nothing in common between them, they finally parted ways in life back in 1979.

          Quote: Max1995
          And the cube is somewhere far away

          Cuba now, it is like the USSR during Perestroika. That is, 1987-91.
          Socialism will end there very soon.
          1. Maks1995
            Maks1995 10 November 2021 13: 40
            +2
            It can be seen that you are not impressed by the article.
            Cuba, like Nicaragua with Mongolia and Korea, on the side, because there is not even the chapter "ideology" ...

            Maybe you just like the approach of Chubais in the 90s? ruin the economy, ruin the country to annoy the left?
            1. grak33
              grak33 10 November 2021 13: 56
              -4
              Quote: Max1995
              Cuba, like Nicaragua with Mongolia and Korea, on the side, because there is not even a chapter on "ideology" there ..

              This is not in the DPRK?
              Well, well.
              And Juche, what's this?
              But in China there is no ideology (socialism), there is only rhetoric.
              1. Maks1995
                Maks1995 10 November 2021 16: 11
                +1
                Read inattentively
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 10 November 2021 17: 09
      +2
      And the role of the USSR was taken by China - China took the role of a huge factory working for the West and the whole world, and it has nothing to do with the USSR except for the name of the party.
  22. p0pulivox
    p0pulivox 9 November 2021 18: 56
    +4
    Quote: Illanatol
    Well, why not: if the USSR was a confident world leader in alcohol / tobacco / alcoholics consumption, suicide, abortion, rape, then Russia today has confidently gone down in these positions from the first places.

    The USSR has never been a world leader in these indicators, there is no need to make noise.
    There were very few suicides in Sweden and Japan, of course.
    Yeah. Is the Russian Federation also an outsider in terms of consumption of "fool"?
    In the USSR, few people knew what heroin looked like, but now?
    Of course, it's the same in Limpopo that they use "hawthorn tincture".
    And it is not in the USSR, but in the Russian Federation that it was officially allowed to drive moonshine.
    А

    I already answered this "Olgovich" approximately in the same way, but his record seems to have stuck (and this is clearly a clinical case, as if a person was damaged on the basis of propaganda) ...
    1. Alf
      Alf 9 November 2021 19: 22
      +8
      Quote: p0pulivox
      but his record seems to have stuck (and this is clearly a clinical case, as if a person was damaged on the basis of propaganda) ...

      For a long time and firmly. He has two tags - When the tsar was everything was great and everything was terrible in the USSR. His thinking does not go beyond this framework.
  23. DAC396
    DAC396 10 November 2021 00: 45
    +3
    I will supplement the description with a reference to "MK", ​​which studied revolutions in the heads of children. “Not revolution, but evolution, pronounce it correctly!” Tema, 6, a great admirer of paleontology and Darwin’s theory, said edifyingly. “This is when microbes turn first into insects, then into birds, then into dogs, then into elephants, then into monkeys and finally, to people. ”Oleg, who is already attending the first grade, shook his head condemningly:“ This is a battle of robots, don't you know ?! "And it is celebrated on November 6, because it was in November that the October war ended. And 7-year-old Zhenya answered without hesitation:" Of course, I know about the revolution! This is a metro station! "..." and so on. to graduates of schools preparing for the Unified State Exam
  24. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 10 November 2021 15: 23
    +1
    Do you want to surprise me with the message that in the capitalist countries someone once lived worse than fellow citizens in the USSR?

    Of course I want to surprise that in India, for example, several hundred million lived worse than in the USSR.
    Or do you have no information that India is a capital country with a parliamentary democracy and a larger population than the United States and the European Union to take them together.
    I want to surprise you and that in the kapmir, about 85% of the population lived worse than in the USSR.
    1. grak33
      grak33 10 November 2021 15: 59
      -3
      Quote: Kostadinov
      Of course I want to surprise that in India, for example, several hundred million lived worse than in the USSR.

      Well, my condolences to the Indians. What's next?

      Quote: Kostadinov
      India is a capital country with parliamentary democracy

      Who told you such nonsense?
      Why is India a capital country?
      The USSR also had the Supreme Council, and the Russian Federation has the State Duma. But from this they did not become capitalist countries.

      Quote: Kostadinov
      I want to surprise you and that in the kapmir, about 85% of the population lived worse than in the USSR.

      But this is utter nonsense.
      Because in the USSR, people lived much worse than Russians in the Russian Federation now. And the middle (median) Russian in terms of wealth is now 91st in the world, despite the fact that 168 countries of the world have been studied.
      Median wealth per adult (end 2020)
      86 Tunisia 81.8%
      87 Jamaica 79.1%
      88 Fiji 76.3%
      89 Peru 72.1%
      90 Ecuador 72.1%
      91 Russia 71.9%
      92 Brunei 67.8%
      93 Azerbaijan 66.5%
      94 Micronesia 64.6%
      95 Colombia 64.3%
      96 Indonesia 62.1%
      World 100.0%
  25. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 10 November 2021 16: 31
    +2
    Who told you such nonsense?
    Why is India a capital country?

    India without fear is a country in which the capitalist social system is and it is an inseparable part of the world capitalist system. And this applies to all countries of Europe, Asia, Africa and America in which there is no socialist society system. Of course, you can have incredible opinions about what capitalism is and where capitalism is in the world.
    But this is utter nonsense.
    Because in the USSR, people lived much worse than Russians in the Russian Federation now. And the middle (median) Russian in terms of wealth is now 91st in the world, despite the fact that 168 countries of the world have been studied.

    I don't know where they got it from. According to the IMF, Russia is now in 70th place out of 225 countries in terms of GDP per capita (purchasing power parity). 1,5 times higher than the world average, better than 80% of the world's population (as among those ahead of Russia - Lichtenstein, Luxembourg, Andora, Monaco, Macau, Man Island, Cayman Islands, Falkland Islands, Aruba , Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Guam, etc. If all of them together can be a bit the population of Moscow), only 1,5 times worse than the EU average.
    The place of the USSR in the world after the war always beat much better than the place of the Russian Federation today.
    1. grak33
      grak33 10 November 2021 18: 17
      -4
      Quote: Kostadinov
      India without fear is a country in which a capitalist social system and it is an inseparable part of the world capitalist system.

      Funny.
      A country with a caste system of society and suddenly, capitalist.
      It looks like you have no idea what capitalism is.

      Quote: Kostadinov
      And this applies to all countries of Europe, Asia, Africa and America in which there is no socialist society system.

      Oh.
      Well, with Soviet socialism it is clear that this is one of the varieties of slave society.
      But what about feudalism (including neo-feudalism)?
      Thus, which lies between the slave society (including Soviet socialism) and capitalism?
      Did the moth eat him?
      Have you ever studied political economy?
      Looks like no.

      Quote: Kostadinov
      GDP per capita (purchasing power parity)

      In principle, such an economic indicator does not exist in wildlife.
      This is a purely propaganda indicator. Specially invented to hang noodles on the ears of suckers.

      Quote: Kostadinov
      The place of the USSR in the world after the war always beat much better than the place of the Russian Federation today.

      It's ridiculous to hear this from a person who did not live in a Soviet garbage can. And I lived there. And long enough.
      The Soviet citizen was a beggar like a church rat. He had literally nothing for his soul.
      +
      I gave you the indicator of Median wealth per adult, so study it as carefully as possible. This is an economic indicator. If you are interested in the figures for Bulgaria (the poorest non-population in the EU), here they are:
      53 Bulgaria 230.4%
  26. Vadim237
    Vadim237 10 November 2021 17: 04
    -2
    “But the RSFSR in 1989 had 7,9% of the world GDP, by the thirtieth anniversary of the Russian Federation came up with a figure of less than 2% of world GDP.

    In passing, we note that the USSR, which had the same share of world GDP as the PRC today, had a population 6 times less than the PRC, which removes any questions about the effectiveness of the Soviet economy and labor productivity. " the same business planning based on real demand - and a planned distribution economy operating according to the calculations of the State Planning Commission where the production system for the sake of production and distribution is needed, it is not needed in such produced quantities, it does not matter the main thing is to produce the world economy for 30 years did not tread on the spot but was actively developing, which is why the share in GDP The USSR, if it had remained, would have decreased in relation to world GDP. "Which removes all questions about the efficiency of the Soviet economy and labor productivity." on the third USSR like this.
    1. grak33
      grak33 10 November 2021 18: 18
      -4
      Quote: Vadim237
      But the RSFSR in 1989 had 7,9% of world GDP

      This is nothing more than Soviet postscripts and manipulations with the exchange rate.
  27. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 10 November 2021 18: 51
    +1
    Ouch. Well, with Soviet socialism it is clear that this is one of the varieties of a slave society.
    But what about feudalism (including neo-feudalism)?
    Thus, which lies between the slave society (including Soviet socialism) and capitalism?
    Did the moth eat him?
    Have you ever studied political economy?
    Looks like no.

    Now I have already understood you. The slave-owners were the conquerors of space and created a nuclear superpower. Feudalism is flourishing in India. If the majority have studied political economy as well as you, this explains a lot about the state of society today.
    In principle, such an economic indicator does not exist in wildlife.
    This is a purely propaganda indicator. Specially invented to hang noodles on the ears of suckers.

    Of course, it is not in nature and it is only propaganda specially invented by the IMF and the World Bank for advertising Russia and the USSR.
    I gave you the indicator of Median wealth per adult, so study it as carefully as possible. This is an economic indicator. If you are interested in the figures for Bulgaria (the poorest non-population in the EU), here they are:
    53 Bulgaria 230.4%

    Here is this indicator from nature itself. Thank you for opening my eyes how good it is in Bulgaria, but only in median, but not so good in mean. The comrades from Credit Suisse didn't figure out something right.
    1. grak33
      grak33 10 November 2021 19: 15
      -4
      Quote: Kostadinov
      Slave owners conquerors of space

      Yes, the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee. they are the conquerors of space, they were slave owners.
      And the conqueror of space in the DPRK, Kim, he is also a slave owner.
      And the conquerors of space from India and China, neo-feudal lords.
      And what from this?
      And what surprises you in this?
      Quote: Kostadinov
      created a nuclear superpower.

      Who is the "nuclear superpower"?
      THE USSR?
      Do not make me laugh.
      In this case, the eternally hungry DPRK is also a "nuclear superpower".
      Quote: Kostadinov
      Feudalism is flourishing in India.

      Neo-feudalism.
      As in the Russian Federation.
      Quote: Kostadinov
      If the majority have studied polyteconomy as well as you

      Unfortunately, most have not studied it at all.
      That's how you are.
      Therefore, you do not understand how the world around you works.
      Quote: Kostadinov
      Of course, it is not in nature and it is only propaganda specially invented by the IMF and the World Bank for advertising Russia and the USSR.

      No, for divorce suckers.
      So that the suckers are not so offended that they are suckers.
      Advocacy at work.
      Quote: Kostadinov
      Thank you for opening my eyes how good it is in Bulgaria, but only in median, but not so good in mean. The comrades from Credit Suisse didn't figure out something right.

      These gentlemen (no need to call worthy people comrades) calculated, both by median and by mean.
      Mean wealth per adult (end 2020)
      65 Bulgaria 45.58%
      World 100.0%

      Median wealth per adult (end 2020)
      48 Uruguay 292.5%
      49 United Arab Emirates 286.2%
      50 Barbados 279.0%
      51 Lebanon 240.5%
      52 Chile 235.0% - hello to "bloody dictator Pinochet"
      53 Bulgaria 230.4%
      54 Dutch Caribbean 222.6%
      55 Trinidad and Tobago 207.2%
      56 Saudi Arabia 205.2%
      57 Albania 203.4%
      58 Bosnia and Herzegovina 202.4%
      World 100.0%
      Since mean is not a fundamental value, I gave it just for information. And the median gave it wider, so that it was clear at the level of whom the Bulgarians live.
  28. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 11 November 2021 12: 14
    +2
    These gentlemen (no need to call worthy people comrades) calculated, both by median and by mean.
    Mean wealth per adult (end 2020)
    65 Bulgaria 45.58%
    World 100.0%

    Don't make people laugh with these gentlemen from the credit agency and their ratings. They have "median wealth" per person (includes natural resources, attracting technology, etc.) not only in Bulgaria but also in Armenia and Turkmenistan much higher than in Russia. They have all the calculations on the exchange rate of currencies, which no one does to compare countries with very different purchasing power of currencies.
    There is no desire to deal with credit agencies and how they figured out how much natural gas, spaceships and Russian nuclear technologies cost in dollars. I just remind you that no one takes them seriously, and when the UN calculates the development index of different countries, it never uses the ratings of credit agencies. The same is true when the IMF, the World Bank and the CIA calculate the economic development and power of states.
    Who is the "nuclear superpower"?
    THE USSR? Do not make me laugh.
    In this case, the eternally hungry DPRK is also a "nuclear superpower". And the space explorers from India and China are neo-feudal lords. And what of it?
    And what surprises you in this?

    No, not surprising. Apparently, capitalism is giving way to feudalism and slavery in the world mashaba. Here India beat the British colony, but feudalism there eventually defeated British capitalism. China also followed the path of rapid development under feudalism, and slaveholding is not entirely clear. And slavery in the USSR and the DPRK led to the development of industry and specifically nuclear missile technologies. Progress through a return to slavery is a very interesting theory.
    Unfortunately, most have not studied it at all.
    That's how you are.
    Therefore, you do not understand how the world around you works.

    And how did you study polyteconomy in the USSR like a slave? Or maybe the Soviet slave owner beat them? In Bulgaria, slave owners from the Politburo forced us slaves to study polyteconomy.
  29. Vladimir
    Vladimir 13 November 2021 14: 37
    -4
    The revolution did not fulfill any of its main tasks.

    First, it did not provide conditions for raising labor productivity to the level of advanced countries.

    Secondly, not only did it fail to improve the welfare of the working people, but also led to lagging behind its level in 1913.

    Both of these reasons led the country to collapse in 1991.

    The average pre-revolutionary salary of 37 rubles 50 kopecks in gold was never surpassed by the pig iron and steel troubadours per capita. So they didn’t defend sovstroy.

    From 1917 to 1991, the country, with enormous sacrifices and difficulties, was steadily moving into a dead end.

    We had a dollar before PMA 1-92. 1913 dollar = current $ 27,63. $ 27,63: 1,92 = $ 14,39. $ 14,39 x 71,35 = 1 Russian rubles. This is the cost of the tsarist ruble today.

    Specifically, earnings under the tsar looked like this:

    - a skilled worker - 75-120 rubles,

    - chauffeur - 80 rubles,

    - typist on a typewriter - 65–90 rubles,

    - secretary - 125 rubles,

    - locomotive driver - 140 rubles,

    - gymnasium teacher - 230 rubles,

    - engineer - 300-350 rubles,

    - editor - 200-225 rubles,

    - Colonel - 325 rubles,

    - senior editor - 350-400 rubles ...

    A lot or a little, look at prices in Little Russia and the Kiev district for 1913 according to the Kiev Historical Museum:

    1 kg of flour - 5 kopecks.

    1 kg of potatoes - 2 kopecks.

    A pound of granulated sugar - 11 kopecks.

    Pound of salt - 1 cop.

    Chicken - 45-75 kopecks.

    10 eggs - 19-30 kopecks.

    A pound of butter - 30-45 kopecks.

    A pound of beef - 10-18 kopecks.

    A pound of pork - 11-15 kopecks.

    Boots - 4-10 rubles.

    Canvas trousers - 1 RUB

    Shirt - 1 rub.

    10 kg of coal - 15 kopecks.

    1 liter of kerosene - 25 kopecks

    10 candles - about 2 rubles.

    Demi-season coat (tailoring) - 19 rubles. 50 kopecks.

    Suit (tailoring) - 16 rubles. 75 kopecks
    The second world economy had 1940-ruble average wages in 339, which was enough to buy 665 kg of potatoes, while in 1913 it was possible to buy 37 kg at 50-1875 - 2,82 times more.

    As revealed in 1965 by the TsNIEI of the State Planning Commission of the RSFSR, almost 40% of the country's population had incomes below the subsistence level. The level of prosperity was considered to be 65 rubles. per person per month. But a total of 73,51% of citizens did not reach it. This poverty was caused by the exorbitant appetites of the Soviet state.

    In a note dated December 1965 to the Planning and Finance Department of the Central Committee of the CPSU, Deputy Chairman of the State Committee for the Commission of the Soviet Union A. Kuznetsov also pointed out the high cost of living in the USSR in comparison with the Republic of Ingushetia in 1913.

    The pre-revolutionary average earnings of 37-50 should be multiplied by 3,3 for the 60s, 5 for the 70s and 7,45 for the 80s, and forget that you are comparing full-fledged gold rubles with wooden ones.

    Part of Russia (Finland) did not follow Lenin and Stalin in 1918. And for her, this turned out to be a tenfold advantage in salaries and pensions ..
    1. ivan2022
      ivan2022 15 November 2021 18: 09
      0
      Finland and Poland were not particularly poor under the tsars. Just like now, Chechnya. The Poles did not pay taxes to the treasury of the Empire ..
      The point is not in the "bad red master", but in the fact that under all the authorities, a society with greater cohesion and common sense lives richer. And with less - how do you interpret that "the stranger's master is kinder."
      Now in France the monthly salary is about 3000 bucks and we have officially less than 600. So it's like Marx and Engels are to blame?
  30. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 15 November 2021 11: 34
    +2
    The average pre-revolutionary salary of 37 rubles 50 kopecks in gold was never surpassed by the pig iron and steel troubadours per capita. So they didn’t defend sovstroy.

    Who got this average salary? 80% of the peasants did not receive any wages. Among the workers, one person in the family received a salary, and unemployment, students, etc. got nothing. Work has never been constant. An apartment took 20-25% of earnings. Treatment and education were out of reach for the majority of the population.
    In the USSR, everyone received a salary closer to the average; people without salaries did not beat them. In addition to salaries, there were premiums. Free treatment, education, vouchers to the resort. Symbolic expenses for apartments for electricity and gas, for transport, for movies, books, sports. Back in the 30s, the average living level in the USSR exceeded the tsarist level several times.

    From 1917 to 1991, the country, with enormous sacrifices and difficulties, was steadily moving into a dead end.

    By 1917, the country experienced another economic and military disaster in the 20th century and fell to a semi-colony of developed countries, and by 1991, one of the two superpowers in the world was "moving to a dead end". Then "coming out of the Soviet impasse" came to what it is today. If the "exit from the impasse" continues for another 20-25 years, perhaps the year will come again to 1917.
    1. Iskazi
      Iskazi 21 November 2021 23: 44
      +1
      The USSR was not a dump ..., the USSR is a missed opportunity. Yes, not everything was smooth, but there was dynamics and development. The main problem of the USSR lay not in the economy, but in politics and ideology ... but the communists had bad brains ...
  31. SHAH
    SHAH 18 December 2021 19: 20
    0
    [i] [/ i] At that time, the country was headed by patriots, sovereigns, since 1991, agents of Western influence have been in power, something like that. It is stupid to compare economies, today Russia is being led to division, and the Russian people to destruction ..
  32. seacap
    seacap 19 December 2021 11: 24
    0
    For a start, in 91 it was counter-revolution, treason and a coup d'etat, and after the shooting of parliament with tanks, there was also an armed seizure of power, usurpation of power, i.e. state crime, whatever you call it later. And the revolution is the 17th, i.e. progress and change of formations of society, 91st step back, simpler - degradation, which is confirmed by the results of 30 years of plunder and destruction of the once great power.
  33. DrRey
    DrRey 25 December 2021 10: 52
    0
    There is one nuance here - the USSR closed itself off from the rest of the world ideologically and did everything by itself. Yes, equipment had to be purchased, samples were purchased, etc., but there were enemies around whom we had to fight. And the Russian Federation, on the contrary, opened up to the world in an attempt to become a part of it, and "friends" immediately came to the rescue, who did not need a competitor, but needed a sales market. In this regard, only a repetition of the path of the USSR is possible and is one of the paths that is considered by the authorities and a certain part of the people as a path to the return of its former greatness. However, today the communist project seems to be more difficult to implement than at the beginning of the 20th century - the structure of society has changed and society itself, too, although correct PR and anything is possible.
  34. Escobar
    Escobar 28 December 2021 10: 52
    0
    Conclusions on the effectiveness of government officials. When a manager in a private firm messes up, he is fired. When a state official, instead of developing the space industry, exercises in chants https://youtu.be/5q3OVxVy5L and destroys the industry for which he is responsible, at the end of the year he declares income of 80 million rubles in salaries and bonuses https://rbc-ru.turbopages .org / turbo / rbc.ru / s / politics / 27/05/2021 / 60aff6619a79477ec4446d55
  35. Riaz1966
    Riaz1966 16 January 2022 22: 27
    +1
    No, everything is said in this material - after all, the economic miracle that happened in thirty years in the USSR was based on slave labor, in the monstrous Gulag system, on terrible famine (with cannibalism) and the deaths of 12,5 million Soviet peasants (in two waves ). The third wave of famine in the USSR began just after the end of Lend Lisa, and this, as far as I remember, was just 1947. The horror of the deportations of a number of peoples is also the "achievement" of those thirty years, well, the destruction of the people during terrors of various sizes, from that very memorable 1917 ... In general, that Soviet thirty-year-old - when creating that greatness of the Soviet quasi-state, laid the foundation " Russian cross" - Mendeleev's forecast about 500 million people in Russia did not come true - by the 21st century ... And as for what would happen if the Whites won (some kind of regimes like Horthy or something else) - these are all fantasies , since the author has forgotten the main thing - history does not know the subjunctive mood.
  36. Illanatol
    Illanatol 4 February 2022 08: 52
    0
    Quote: Olgovich
    It doesn’t occur to me that the villages were supposed to become cities: this is how the country and industry develop, and not the disappearance of existing villages for centuries, and huge ABANDONED territories and infrastructure?


    Not every village is destined to be a city. Why didn’t the villages that existed for centuries under the tsars become cities until 1917?
    Quite a few new cities arose after 1917.
    As well as industrial enterprises and entire industries, which were not in tsarist Russia by definition.