Military Review

Higher education reforms are destroying Russia's national security

179

Source: 1spbgmu.ru


Situation analysis


How can higher education reform harm the state?

In most cases it is very simple - it is enough to graduate ignoramuses from universities. But in modern Russia there is a different path. And it's much sleeker.

But first a little stories.

In the Soviet Union, fundamental and applied science was engaged in specialized research institutes (Research Institute). It was here that routine scientific work was carried out with varying degrees of efficiency. Institutions that were utopian in their essence (for example, the Research Institute of Marxism-Leninism) and world-class institutions existed in the Union. Among the latter, for example, the Institute of Chemical Physics, in which the only Russian Nobel laureate in chemistry Nikolai Semenov worked.

Higher educational institutions for the most part were separated from research institutes and were mainly engaged in education. Of course, quite serious research was carried out at departments in universities, but they could not be compared with the scale of specialized institutes.

At the same time, there were exceptions - for example, the Novosibirsk Academgorodok. This cluster of the Siberian Academy of Sciences brought together many specialized scientific institutions and universities. Senior and junior researchers worked with students at lectures, and future specialists were sent to local research institutes for practices and seminars.

With the collapse of the USSR, the new leaders took care of the transfer of domestic science and education to foreign standards. And in the West, they practically do not know what a research institute is.

The lion's share of breakthrough research there is carried out at universities - from the first year students are taught to engage in applied and fundamental science. Taking into account the considerable technological lag of our country from the leading countries, we decided to introduce exactly this know-how. Not multiply to increase funding for science, following the example of the West, namely, to plant a real scientific life in universities.

This is how national research universities appeared, for example, NUST MISIS National Research Technological University Moscow Institute of Steel and Alloys. From the point of view of natural and technical sciences, such innovations can only be welcomed.

Firstly, students are determined earlier with a future profile.

Secondly, the qualifications of teachers are much higher - in their free time from lectures, they are engaged in world-class research and do not lose their qualifications, bringing science to the young people from the forefront. It remains only to measure the whole thing correctly.

How to tell if a university is doing well or badly?

That's right, include universities in the world rankings and see how the conventional NSU is better or worse than Cambridge and Oxford. This is how the notorious project "5 - 100" was born, aimed at "increasing the competitiveness of leading Russian universities among the world's leading research and educational centers." At once, 21 Russian universities received generous budgetary funding in the hope of becoming one of the world's top hundred scientific institutions in the world.

As a result, a failure - none of the selected universities by the reporting year 2020 was included in any of the ratings - British QS, THE and Chinese ARWU. Among those included in the top 5 was Moscow State University, but it was not initially enrolled in the "100 - XNUMX" project.

The specialists of the Accounts Chamber argue that 80 billion of budget money for the project was wasted. However, this is a topic for another conversation, and now we will concentrate on the western orientation of Russian higher education.

Preformed


Now, to be successful (read - access to budget funding), a Russian university needs prominent scientists on its staff.

How to become a prominent scientist?

Of course, to be published in peer-reviewed foreign journals, thus proving their scientific worth. It is important that the article is cited as many times as possible - this is how the citation index grows, perhaps the most controversial artifact of the modern world.

In the field of natural and technical sciences, everything is simple - no one can fundamentally deceive anyone. By and large, one cannot argue against the laws of physics and mathematics.

But with the humanities, everything is more complicated.

For example, to become a professor at any leading Russian university, you need to get into the British SCOPUS database. Once again, a private office SCOPUS from a "friendly" UK determines (albeit indirectly) whether a scientist from Moscow State University will work as the head of the department or not.

In scientific Russia now it is like this - if the articles of a researcher are included in databases such as SCOPUS, then you are respected and with career prospects. In general, it is better to publish in English in foreign journals with a good impact factor, that is, with high citation in the scientific community.

Such are the realities of the large-scale reform of the higher education system, which started in the late 2000s.

Tricks with Hirsch indices together with impact factors have been a dubious idea before. For example, how to achieve recognition if you specialize in a narrow topic for which you don't get much grants, and you can't send an article to a reputable magazine? And now it has become even more difficult.

An illustrative example is with historians, which was very vividly characterized during the round table of the Public Chamber "Publication activity of universities in the humanities", which took place on October 28 at MGIMO. Dean of the Faculty of Governance and Politics Henry Sardaryan spoke about the requirements of British journals to authors from Russia to choose topics for articles exclusively on topical issues for Europe.

That is, to openly criticize the foreign policy of the Kremlin, to consider the results of the Second World War through the prism of European politics and to look for reasons for another repentance of Russia for its past.

According to Sardaryan:

"Among the priority topics for the British in the humanities, one of the first lines is occupied by issues that run counter even to the Constitution of the Russian Federation in its latest edition."

He echoes the dean of MGIMO Alexander Vasilievich Okorokov, Doctor of Historical Sciences, Deputy Director for Research of the Russian Research Institute of Cultural and Natural Heritage. D. S. Likhachev ":

“Research by Russian scientists, in particular in the socio-humanitarian sphere, is often associated with the history of the state development of our country and the goals of preserving traditional national values, which sometimes arouses rejection among Western colleagues. Especially in recent years, there has been a period of active anti-Russian rhetoric and sanctions policy of some foreign countries. However, the currently obligatory assessment of the effectiveness of the work of Russian scientists, in particular, humanitarians in publications in foreign publications, forces domestic researchers to "adjust" to Western concepts, sometimes to "tick" to sacrifice the traditions that have developed for decades in Russian scientific schools, which causes a tangible a blow to the prestige and authority of Russian researchers. However, the opinion of Russian scientists was not taken into account by the Ministry of Science and Higher Education of the Russian Federation, which causes, in the light of modern state policy aimed at strengthening the national interests of Russia, at least bewilderment. "

There is only one way out in this situation - to create our own independent system of scientometrics with home-grown impact factors and Russian analogues SCOPUS.

In this case, there is no need to talk about the scientific recognition of foreign researchers, but at least there is a chance to preserve the Russian identity. If it does not work out, then people who have a subtle sense of the mood of the British and other NATO public will infiltrate the faculty of the humanities departments of Russian universities.

At the lectures of such associate professors and professors, personalities will be formed who will create the Russia of the future. Hands will also reach pedagogical universities, where overly liberal scientists with big "Hirschs and Scopuses" will show future teachers how to bring up children and what to teach. With this approach, we will not need any notorious foreign agents for the collapse of the country, enough of our own.
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  1. bairat
    bairat 5 November 2021 05: 53
    +14
    The other day I watched the speech of one professor, he complained that the study of the English language is poorly organized, after graduation, students leave to work "there" and hardly fit into work collectives there. Everything is turned upside down in our education. Already probably not a potential, but a real enemy, he does not hesitate to skim the cream, takes the best minds. There are no barriers. In the United States, for example, a student after graduation owes the state for his studies, and he has no options to wave his pen and go to work for the enemies of his state, at least for the first ten years. We also cannot keep them with a salary, a young nuclear physicist is offered 25 tr., There 3-4 th. €.
    1. military_cat
      military_cat 5 November 2021 06: 11
      +13
      "Among the priority topics for the British in the humanities, one of the first lines is occupied by issues that run counter even to the Constitution of the Russian Federation in its latest edition."
      Is it possible to adopt an amendment to the Constitution of the Russian Federation that π = 3? So many problems will be solved at once. I would vote. And then 3.14159265358979 - well, some kind of madhouse.
      1. Tatyana
        Tatyana 5 November 2021 07: 08
        +9
        There is only one way out in this situation - to create our own independent system of scientometrics with home-grown impact factors and Russian analogues SCOPUS.

        In this case, there is no need to talk about the scientific recognition of foreign researchers, but at least there is a chance to preserve the Russian identity. If it does not work out, then people who have a subtle sense of the mood of the British and other NATO public will infiltrate the faculty of the humanities departments of Russian universities.

        At the lectures of such associate professors and professors, personalities will be formed who will create the Russia of the future. Hands will also reach pedagogical universities, where overly liberal scientists with big "Hirschs and Scopuses" will show future teachers how to bring up children and what to teach. With this approach, we will not need any notorious foreign agents for the collapse of the country, enough of our own.

        That's right! The problem was raised by the author absolutely correctly and it is more than a dozen years old!

        You listen to the speeches of Russian participants in scientific and practical international conferences on humanitarian disciplines - professors, students and graduate students - and you understand that in front of you are pro-Western "scoundrels" scientists - foreign grant-eaters and traitors to the Motherland-Russia.
        And everyone is smiling, everyone is happy! And foreigners and Western intelligence officers at the conference glow with happiness, as much as in seventh heaven!

        Some people just want to hit something deliciously on the face, but it's impossible, and it's pointless - they'll just kick you out of the hall!
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 5 November 2021 07: 59
          +28
          There is only one way out in this situation - to create its independent system

          The USSR had its own independent education system. If not the best, then definitely one of the best. Which they looked up to, which they adopted.

          And the Kremlin boys have only their own loot. The rest are copied by the natives.
          1. Real Pilot
            Real Pilot 5 November 2021 16: 26
            +18
            I have a rhetorical question:
            And what was Korolyov's "citation index" in foreign scientific tomes? And what about Kurchatov? And Antonov, Mil, Kamov, Sukhoi, Kalashnikov, Dollezhal ... Any name can be given - and these are only famous scientists.

            Everyone knows the answer about this rating ...

            The lack of citation did not at all prevent the creation of advanced science in the USSR. And their works were worth an order of magnitude more than those published in "scientific journals"! The works of Soviet scientists were literally hunted for. And now, in order to prove your right to scientific life, you need to put everything "on the net" yourself.

            For the humanities it is tolerable, but for a number of areas such an approach is a form of crime!
            1. Dartik
              Dartik 6 November 2021 19: 08
              0
              And what was Korolyov's "citation index" in foreign scientific tomes? And what about Kurchatov? And Antonov, Mil, Kamov, Sukhoi, Kalashnikov, Dollezhal ... Any name can be given - and these are only famous scientists.
              Not everyone in the world of the Queen, now loners decide little, the team of scientists decides. Therefore, such journals are important, because without them there will be no development of science.
        2. Lara Croft
          Lara Croft 5 November 2021 15: 34
          0
          Quote: Tatiana
          The problem was raised by the author absolutely correctly and it is more than a dozen years old!

          There is a problem, but it does not coincide, as is often the case here, with the topic of the article ...
          The article indicates the problems of scientific activity in the field of higher education in the Russian Federation, and it is assumed only starting from the master's level (according to the Federal State Educational Standard), and this is 40% of former bachelors ...
          Postgraduate studies, after the introduction of the magistracy under the Bologna Agreement, became an extra link and was downgraded, becoming part of higher education ...
          By the way, in the Republic of Belarus and the Republic of Kazakhstan it has long been gone ...
          There is only one way out in this situation - to create our own independent system of scientometrics with home-grown impact factors and Russian analogues SCOPUS.

          It will be as inaccessible to state students as yours.
          scientific and practical international conferences

          Undergraduate / postgraduate students-state employees do not have money for publications (especially in VAK publications) and participation in any conferences, even in absentia, and even more so for the translation of their scientific articles for publication in foreign publications ...
          It is easier for a working student to publish, but there is no time to participate in any scientific and practical conferences, otherwise he will simply be fired ...
          There are only wealthy students / graduate students who can afford all of the above, and since the parents of such offspring are not noticed for their inhuman love for the Russian Federation, then "anti-Soviet" and "anti-Putin" articles, which you hear at conferences, come out on the "mountain". ..
          Why go far, even here on VO, some evil members of the forum (healthy guys) are ready to write "anti-Soviet" and "anti-Putin" comments for ++++ that you want to take from students and graduate students ...
          The teaching staff is also far from being on its own, they follow the flow of "universal approval", they have a career and children, many write scientific articles for their thugs students ... whom you then see at your conferences ...
          It’s delicious to drop in, but it’s impossible, and it’s pointless - they’ll just kick you out of the hall!

          have a little time laughing , will be deprived of degrees and titles .... so it's better to write here "anti-Soviet" and "anti-Putin" comments and you will get ++++ (not from me) from other members of the forum ...
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 5 November 2021 16: 27
            +8
            Quote: Lara Croft
            The teaching staff is also far from being on its own, they follow the flow of "universal approval", they have a career and children, many write scientific articles for their thieves students ... whom you then see at your conferences ..

            Again, the wrong people are caught? wink
            1. akulych
              akulych 5 November 2021 17: 34
              +3
              Esessno, not even though scientists are bloody to work for gruel, bastards. All in sharashki and on a chain.
          2. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 7 November 2021 22: 02
            0
            State students / postgraduates do not have money for publications (especially in VAK publications) and participation in any conferences, even correspondence and even more so for translation their scientific articles for publication in foreign journals ...

            It looks like you do not own the topic. Publications in VAK publications (peer-reviewed) do not require money at all, examples of such journals are "Uchenye Zapiski TsAGI", "Mechanics of Liquid and Gas", "Thermophysics of High Temperatures", etc. Well, knowledge of English is a necessary (but not sufficient) condition for modern scientific activity. It is clear that a trip to an international conference requires money, but a scientist does not work at home, but in a specific organization that pays for this trip. The registration fee for an international conference is very decent, up to 1000 Euros, and you have to spend money on a hotel with tickets, on average, 150-180 thousand rubles go to a European conference. But serious organizations agree to this, especially when it comes to applied research. The conference on the Russian Federation comes out 3-4 times cheaper. Something like this.
            1. Lara Croft
              Lara Croft 7 November 2021 22: 37
              -1
              Quote: Aviator_
              It looks like you do not own the topic. Publications in VAK publications (peer-reviewed) do not require money at all, examples of such journals are "Uchenye zapiski TsAGI", "Mechanics of liquid and gas", "Thermophysics of high temperatures", etc.

              I can also write that you do not own the topic, you don't need a lot of mind. In 2013, the publication of the VAK scientific article in one well-known university cost me 9 tr. Two others are free, but on an acquaintance, you can still publish in your university, most often also for free, but not all universities have accreditation from the Higher Attestation Commission ...
              It is clear that a trip to an international conference requires money, but a scientist does not work at home, but in a specific organization that pays for this trip.

              I'm mostly talking about masters / graduate students. full-time students wrote (since they are the majority), what kind of organization they can have and who will pay for what?
              The registration fee for an international conference is very decent, up to 1000 Euros, and you have to spend money on a hotel with tickets, on average, 150-180 thousand rubles go to a European conference.

              Did you definitely read my comment or are you just showing off?
              But serious organizations agree to this, especially when it comes to applied research.

              What organizations and for whom are they going, if I wrote about
              about masters / postgraduates full-time students

              The conference on the Russian Federation comes out 3-4 times cheaper. Something like this.

              How much they cost I know without you, invitations come in a week ...
              Although I think for correspondence scientific conferences and for the entrance to the "round table" in the House of Scientists, they should have enough money ...
              I think the future belongs to online conferences, but scientific articles will still be written by yourself, the old fashioned way ... although now there is no time ...
              1. Aviator_
                Aviator_ 7 November 2021 22: 44
                +1
                In 2013, the publication of the VAK scientific article in one well-known university cost me 9 tr. Two others are free, but on an acquaintance, you can still publish in your university, most often also for free, but not all universities have accreditation from the Higher Attestation Commission ...

                The "Scientific Notes of TsAGI", "TVT" and "MZHG" listed by me do not require payment either from masters, or from full-time graduate students, or from anyone. Also, the university "Bulletin of SSAU" does not require payment. So there is no need to talk about spending. Was there any point in being published in a particular magazine for money? Full-time graduate students usually sit on grants from the RFBR (so to speak, the children of Captain Grant, as we call them).
                I think the future belongs to online conferences,
                ,
                Online conferencing is like a non-alcoholic beer or a rubber woman.
                How much they cost I know without you, invitations come in a week ...
                There are many people here who do not know the scale of prices, this is for them too.
                By the way, in what field do you work, I hope, not in the humanitarian field?
              2. Aviator_
                Aviator_ 8 November 2021 19: 12
                -1
                Once again - what kind of "Izvestny VUZ" publishes VAK articles for money? Or is it a state secret?
                And what field do you work in - technical or humanitarian?
                1. Lara Croft
                  Lara Croft 8 November 2021 23: 43
                  0
                  Quote: Aviator_
                  Once again - what kind of "Izvestny VUZ" publishes VAK articles for money? Or is it a state secret?

                  I'll write simply, you don't need to know.
                  And what field do you work in - technical or humanitarian?

                  In the humanitarian. Education and technical and humanitarian.
                  There are many people here who do not know the scale of prices, this is for them too.

                  And why should everyone know if everyone is not interested and does not need your
                  "Scientific notes of TsAGI", "Mechanics of liquid and gas", "Thermophysics of high temperatures", etc.

                  Do not impose your opinion, it is not interesting to anyone with your unnecessary persistence (especially if the topic of discussion is not interesting to people), they can send ...

                  P.S. If my PC is turned on, this does not mean that I am sitting on VO .... ...
                  1. Aviator_
                    Aviator_ 9 November 2021 07: 58
                    0
                    I'll write simply, you don't need to know.

                    It's clear. It is not indicated in the manual. I will give you specific magazines, and you will be anonymous to me.
                    In the humanitarian.

                    Based on the results of the conversation, this was to be expected.
                    Do not impose your opinion

                    And where did I impose it? He only gave a reasoned answer to the "suffering" of masters and graduate students.
                    Further successes to you in humanitarian publications hi
              3. Aviator_
                Aviator_ 8 November 2021 21: 08
                0
                I understand that there is nothing to answer except for a minus, or is it not your minus?
        3. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 5 November 2021 21: 13
          0
          which causes, in the light of modern state policy aimed at strengthening the national interests of Russia, at least, bewilderment. "

          why, when we touch on the interests of Russia, we express our indignation as bewilderment? and at least? why not to the maximum? at the highest? which was canceled, the measure of punishment?
        4. Pete mitchell
          Pete mitchell 7 November 2021 19: 10
          +1
          Quote: Tatiana
          And foreigners and Western intelligence officers at the conference glow with happiness, as much as in seventh heaven!

          Quote: There is a reminder at Stellenbosch University in South Africa
          Destroying any nation does not require atomic bombs or long-range missiles. All that is required is a reduction in the quality of education and permission to cheat students in exams. Patients die at the hands of such doctors. Buildings are destroyed at the hands of such engineers. Money is lost at the hands of such economists and accountants. Justice is lost in the hands of such lawyers and judges. The collapse of education is the collapse of the nation
      2. soul
        soul 5 November 2021 08: 18
        +14
        Quote: military_cat
        Is it possible to adopt an amendment to the Constitution of the Russian Federation that π = 3?

        Everything that needed to be changed in the Constitution has already been changed laughing
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 5 November 2021 12: 32
          +7
          Quote: alma
          Everything that needed to be changed in the Constitution has already been changed

          All that is needed for a certain circle of people.
      3. lis-ik
        lis-ik 5 November 2021 13: 20
        +3
        Quote: military_cat
        "Among the priority topics for the British in the humanities, one of the first lines is occupied by issues that run counter even to the Constitution of the Russian Federation in its latest edition."
        Is it possible to adopt an amendment to the Constitution of the Russian Federation that π = 3? So many problems will be solved at once. I would vote. And then 3.14159265358979 - well, some kind of madhouse.

        The problem is that enemies will immediately appear in the entire universe, because they will not agree to change the constants.
        1. Lara Croft
          Lara Croft 5 November 2021 15: 38
          +2
          Quote: lis-ik
          The problem is that enemies will immediately appear in the entire universe, because they will not agree to change the constants.

          Glowing in vain. Those who will change do not know about
          permanent
          1. lis-ik
            lis-ik 5 November 2021 15: 42
            +1
            Quote: Lara Croft

            Glowing in vain. Those who will change do not know about
            permanent

            This is their problem, and most importantly those who appoint them.
      4. bk0010
        bk0010 5 November 2021 18: 10
        0
        Quote: military_cat
        Is it possible to adopt an amendment to the Constitution of the Russian Federation that π = 3? So many problems will be solved at once. I would vote. And then 3.14159265358979 - well, some kind of madhouse.
        Do you think this is humor? In one of the states this was done.
      5. Harry.km
        Harry.km 7 November 2021 13: 13
        +1
        Quote: military_cat
        pi = 3

        I will add: and also recognize that the earth is flat and abolish trigonometry ... following astronomy.
    2. Dimy4
      Dimy4 5 November 2021 06: 17
      +8
      We also cannot keep them with a salary, a young nuclear physicist is offered 25 tr., There 3-4 th. €.

      Therefore, everything is based on almost naked enthusiasm. on fans of their craft, and on people who truly love their country.
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 5 November 2021 07: 28
        +6
        Quote: Dimy4
        Therefore, everything is based on almost naked enthusiasm.

        And what actually holds? There is nothing ... the developments of the times of the USSR are over, now there will be no more breakthroughs.
        1. Clear
          Clear 5 November 2021 12: 03
          -13
          Quote: Svarog
          now there will be no more breakouts.

          Vladimir, to your eternal suffering "Help! Everything is lost! ... Never before has the Motherland perished so badly! ..." belay already the "ambulance" does not leave.
          1. novel66
            novel66 5 November 2021 12: 09
            +15
            Lady love , I will say more - soon the ambulance (unintentionally) will not leave without QR codes ... not vaccinated - die of a heart attack. something is wrong in the Danish kingdom ...
            1. Clear
              Clear 5 November 2021 12: 22
              -13
              Quote: novel xnumx
              Lady love , I will say more - soon the ambulance (unintentionally) will not leave without QR codes ... not vaccinated - die of a heart attack. something is wrong in the Danish kingdom ...

              Hi Roma love
              The Danish kingdom is rather small compared to the Russian one.
              Let those who have made a problem for themselves out of this and have powdered the rest of the brain should worry about QR codes.
              Vaccination, three to five seconds ... and "walk Vasya, eat sawdust, I am the director of the sawmill ..."
              I have a revaccination in a month.
              1. novel66
                novel66 5 November 2021 12: 22
                +1
                risking, however ...
                1. Clear
                  Clear 5 November 2021 12: 29
                  -1
                  Quote: novel xnumx
                  risking, however ...

                  Do they want to encode? wink
                  1. novel66
                    novel66 5 November 2021 12: 36
                    +10
                    already, probably go to the 5G tower to install updates ... lol
                    1. Clear
                      Clear 5 November 2021 12: 40
                      -1
                      Quote: novel xnumx
                      already, probably go to the 5G tower to install updates ... lol

                      On the contrary, after vaccination I go to the 5G tower and from her, from me, all the programs are updated. lol
                      1. novel66
                        novel66 5 November 2021 12: 48
                        +3
                        cool. very cool, install something useful there
                      2. lis-ik
                        lis-ik 5 November 2021 13: 24
                        0
                        Quote: Clear
                        Quote: novel xnumx
                        already, probably go to the 5G tower to install updates ... lol

                        On the contrary, after vaccination I go to the 5G tower and from her, from me, all the programs are updated. lol

                        The main thing is to beware of the flu, and the towers are bullshit.
                      3. The comment was deleted.
              2. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 5 November 2021 12: 47
                +3
                Quote: Clear
                Vaccination, three to five seconds ... and "walk Vasya, eat sawdust, I am the director of the sawmill ..."

                How does this fit into the canons of the Nuremberg Protocols, the Constitution of the Russian Federation and the UN Convention?
                1. Shahno
                  Shahno 5 November 2021 13: 05
                  +1
                  Should it fit? You voluntarily carry out medical procedures on yourself (someone does not want to lose their job, someone is simply afraid).
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 5 November 2021 13: 21
                    +2
                    Quote: Shahno
                    You voluntarily perform medical procedures on yourself.

                    It was necessary to say experiments, not procedures. For Sputnik V appeared in the list of tested drugs much later than the unvaccinated began to be removed from work.
                    And there is no voluntariness, people are forced. hi
                    1. Lara Croft
                      Lara Croft 5 November 2021 15: 44
                      -2
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      And there is no voluntariness, people are forced. hi

                      The beatings were removed laughing fool
                      1. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 5 November 2021 16: 24
                        +1
                        Quote: Lara Croft
                        The beatings were removed

                        When you use the word "force" in your head, do you think of associations related only to beatings and the use of physical force? belay
                        Were you often beaten as a child?
                    2. Alex_Bora
                      Alex_Bora 9 November 2021 13: 38
                      0
                      When a case of smallpox was brought to Moscow in the 70s, in a WEEK !!! vaccinated 7,5 million people. And no tantrums: "chips", "you are taking a big risk." Nobody even stuttered about "freedom of choice"!
                      Read about the life of microbiologists during the period of plague and other scourges, especially in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. People have experienced diseases, medicines, and vaccinations. And we whine all ...
                      1. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 13: 48
                        0
                        Quote: Alex_Bora
                        When a case of smallpox was brought to Moscow in the 70s, in a WEEK !!! vaccinated 7,5 million people. And no tantrums: "chips", "

                        Do not confuse the infectiousness and danger of smallpox with covid. And do not confuse the medicine of the USSR and the Russian Federation, with the annually cut budget for medicine.
                2. Clear
                  Clear 5 November 2021 15: 55
                  -5
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  Quote: Clear
                  Vaccination, three to five seconds ... and "walk Vasya, eat sawdust, I am the director of the sawmill ..."

                  How does this fit into the canons of the Nuremberg Protocols, the Constitution of the Russian Federation and the UN Convention?

                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  there is no voluntariness, people are forced.

                  Look not to fit into the minutes of the Investigative Committee for your anti-vaccine hysteria. And God forbid her as part of a group winked
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 5 November 2021 16: 18
                    +5
                    Quote: Clear
                    Look not to fit into the minutes of the Investigative Committee for your anti-vaccine hysteria.

                    You are confusing something, dear. I do not have hysteria, there are questions to which I get hysteria instead of answering.
                    PS You have not heard about the compulsion to vaccinate under pain of dismissal?
                    1. Clear
                      Clear 5 November 2021 17: 15
                      -8
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      You are confusing something, dear.
                      Save your progressive affection for your wife. Where were you brought up?


                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      I have no hysteria
                      Do not self-diagnose, it only aggravates mental illness.

                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      PS You have not heard about the compulsion to vaccinate under pain of dismissal?
                      It is high time. For how long it is possible to ask the heads of enterprises and organizations to protect us from these living "Petri dishes" in which the mutated strain breaks through the vaccinated.
                      In addition, you forgot, as always, to say about 30% of employees being transferred to a remote location.
                      And, you say that you will not be hysterical.
                      1. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 5 November 2021 21: 46
                        +1
                        Quote: Clear
                        Where were you brought up?

                        Unlike you, a girl (grandmother) with a beautiful avatar, I was brought up by Soviet education.
                        Quote: Clear
                        Do not self-diagnose,

                        I have long recognized my shortcomings, unlike you. wink
                        Quote: Clear
                        It's time.

                        It is high time to shoot the traitors to the Motherland and their henchmen.
                      2. Clear
                        Clear 6 November 2021 14: 15
                        0
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        It is high time to shoot the traitors to the Motherland and their henchmen.
                        A lover of executions without trial or investigation, usually a thief shouts "catch the thief!"

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Unlike you, a girl (grandmother) with a beautiful avatar, I was brought up by Soviet education.
                        Yes, my avatar is beautiful.
                        You, as always, have confused education with upbringing.
                        Ingvarchik, well, somehow work on yourself winked Through "I can not".
                      3. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 6 November 2021 18: 53
                        +1
                        Quote: Clear
                        A lover of executions without trial or investigation, usually a thief shouts "catch the thief!"

                        To understand that this is a thief and a corrupt official, you don't need a trial, you need brains. For it is not necessary to compare the discrepancy between expenditures and incomes of a great mind.
                        Quote: Clear
                        You, as always, have confused education with upbringing.

                        Don't you know that Soviet education was also involved in upbringing?
                        Well, this is the problem of your education, not my upbringing. laughing
                      4. Clear
                        Clear 7 November 2021 14: 09
                        0
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        To understand that this is a thief and a corrupt official, you don't need a trial, you need brains. For it is not necessary to compare the discrepancy between expenditures and incomes of a great mind.

                        Who would it be interesting to compare expenses, income and brains?
                        And if you are compared by those who believe that they have more brains than you?
                        Sorry to lose you crying could still walk free.

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Don't you know that Soviet education was also involved in upbringing?
                        Well, this is the problem of your education, not my upbringing.
                        Judging by your posts, Soviet education did not affect you No.
                      5. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 7 November 2021 15: 05
                        -1
                        Quote: Clear
                        Who would it be interesting to compare expenses, income and brains?

                        You need to compare with brains, dearie, and not put brains in a row with the objects of comparison! The brain is a computing tool, and the rest is raw data.
                        But what am I talking about, a person who does not have a computational function is not able to add two and two. Just one delusion with a hidden threat. Will not give a ride, dear, no one will come for me. For there is no corpus delicti, unlike you, I can control the text I print. And correlate the printed with the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. And you will not be able to bring me to emotions, people tried to be smarter than you.
                        Quote: Clear
                        Judging by your posts, Soviet education did not affect you

                        Judging by yours, no education even came close to you, let alone touches. wink
                      6. Clear
                        Clear 8 November 2021 14: 58
                        +2
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        You need to compare with brains, dearie, and not put brains in a row with the objects of comparison!
                        Here the "fellow" himself compared and translated the arrows himself.


                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Brains are a computing tool
                        That's why I see that when there is electricity, then the posts are normal, but basically your computer center works on "dead" batteries.


                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Just one delusion with a hidden threat.
                        So don't be afraid if you are confident. But.... winked


                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Will not give a ride, dear, no one will come for me. For there is no corpus delicti, unlike you, I can control the text I print. And correlate the printed with the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.
                        Who knows !? request Do not exclude yourself from the bag and from the prison.
                        And, the corpus delicti is determined not by the suspect, but by the investigator.


                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        And you will not be able to bring me to emotions, people tried to be smarter than you.
                        So you are not emotional about it yet? belay I represent you on emotions ...

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Judging by yours, no education even came close to you, let alone touches
                        By the way, for information, education is not the main thing for women.
                        Lord, to whom I say this, he is sure that
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        do not put brains in line with the objects of comparison!
                      7. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 8 November 2021 18: 22
                        +2
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Judging by yours, no education even came close to you, let alone touches.

                        in vain you are so with a woman, they think in analogies, so do not analyze and synthesize, but find a reason for a compliment laughing
                        "he d u r a k" they have it from kindergarten and you can’t argue yes
                      8. Shahno
                        Shahno 8 November 2021 18: 29
                        +3
                        It depends on what kind of women .. There is, for example, such a type that wow. Prudent and venerable analysts will give a head start.
                      9. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 8 November 2021 18: 31
                        +2
                        Quote: Shahno
                        Prudent and venerable analysts will give a head start.

                        they still have more analogies than analysis, they have a different brain structure, Savelyeva listen
                        Yes! and they do not give a head start, but immediately put it in place ... well, if there was no compliment lol
                      10. Clear
                        Clear 8 November 2021 20: 24
                        +2
                        Quote: Shahno
                        It depends on what kind of women .. There is, for example, such a type that wow. Prudent and venerable analysts will give a head start.

                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        they still have more analogies than analysis, they have a different brain structure, Savelyeva listen
                        Yes! and they do not give a head start, but immediately put it in place ... well, if there was no compliment

                        Plus you boys love
                      11. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 9 November 2021 10: 51
                        +2
                        Quote: Clear
                        Plus you boys

                        Mercy Madame! I'm touched!
                  2. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 5 November 2021 22: 01
                    +1
                    Quote: Clear
                    Look not to fit into the minutes of the Investigative Committee for your anti-vaccine hysteria. And God forbid her as part of a group

                    "The team of employees of the ambulance station in the city of Obluchye in the Jewish Autonomous Region, which consisted of 15 people, wrote letters of resignation due to refusal to be vaccinated."

                    Read more at RBC:
                    https://www.rbc.ru/society/04/11/2021/6183924a9a794708a564ae6b
                    1. Lara Croft
                      Lara Croft 6 November 2021 14: 56
                      -1
                      Quote: mordvin xnumx
                      "The team of employees of the ambulance station in the city of Obluchye in the Jewish Autonomous Region, which consisted of 15 people, wrote letters of resignation due to refusal to be vaccinated."

                      You have outdated information "kind" person ...
                      Employees of the ambulance station of the city of Obluchye of the Jewish Autonomous Region (EAO), who previously wrote letters of resignation due to refusal to be vaccinated against coronavirus, changed their minds to quit... This was reported by "Interfax" with reference to the representative of the press service of the regional government.

                      https://news.mail.ru/incident/48655682/?frommail=1&utm_partner_id=936
                      1. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 6 November 2021 16: 02
                        0
                        The state has many ways to make people change their minds, I would like to know the reasons.
                      2. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 6 November 2021 17: 24
                        -3
                        Quote: Lara Croft
                        You have outdated information "kind" person ...

                        Because they were left behind with compulsory vaccination.
                        A step has been taken to meet the team - this morning, all medical workers were offered to undergo the necessary tests for antibodies to coronavirus, so that everyone can make an informed decision about whether to vaccinate or not.

                        The authorities were really afraid of a chain reaction.
                      3. Lara Croft
                        Lara Croft 6 November 2021 20: 10
                        -1
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        The authorities were really afraid of a chain reaction.

                        This in your hospital may be a chain reaction, due to the TV in the ward turned off by the nurses ...
                        And then they explained to people that they work in a risk zone and with people, which means they must be vaccinated, at least so as not to infect others, according to the law, in each region the sanitary doctor himself determines the range of professions to be vaccinated, if you do not want to be vaccinated, then you will first suspended from work, then fired ... and all Courts will be against you ...
                        It's like a waiter working in a restaurant refuses to get vaccinated for ideological reasons ... he doesn't give a damn about visitors and the employer has to pay salary for it, and then fines for him ...
                      4. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 7 November 2021 04: 45
                        -2
                        Quote: Lara Croft
                        And then they explained to people that they work in a risk zone and with people

                        Yes, at least pee in your eyes, all the dew of God.
                3. aybolyt678
                  aybolyt678 8 November 2021 18: 28
                  0
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  How does this fit into the canons of the Nuremberg Protocols, the Constitution of the Russian Federation and the UN Convention?

                  I certainly understand that compulsory vaccination is a violation of individual freedom, but I believe that the habit of self-infringement of one's EGO for the good of society is a small step towards socialism. yes
            2. Lara Croft
              Lara Croft 5 November 2021 15: 41
              +2
              Quote: novel xnumx
              not vaccinated - die of a heart attack.

              Why do you insult Russian medicine? What they treat here is what they die from ...
              1. novel66
                novel66 5 November 2021 16: 02
                +1
                optimistic, inspiring !! good
        2. lis-ik
          lis-ik 5 November 2021 13: 23
          +3
          Quote: Svarog
          Quote: Dimy4
          Therefore, everything is based on almost naked enthusiasm.

          And what actually holds? There is nothing ... the developments of the times of the USSR are over, now there will be no more breakthroughs.

          But why? They still hope and modernize, squeezing out the last penny. They lie about unparalleled and new physical principles in a separate country. And they are sincerely offended when the others for some reason do not believe.
        3. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 5 November 2021 21: 35
          +1
          Quote: Svarog
          And what actually holds? There is nothing ... the developments of the times of the USSR are over, now there will be no more breakthroughs.

          here is a little bit different. There is a thermonuclear fusion unit in the city of Sarov. Twice the size of the American one. Not only is the installation almost assembled, in case of a successful launch, their full production cycle is conceived there. This could be a revolution in energy! and hence in the economy.
          The trouble is that Money is chosen as a criterion for the success of Science, personality, state .... And who rules money rules and success. Any success in any economy associated with world money will immediately move to their service. The development paradigm needs to be changed. We have extensive experience in socialist economic management. Therefore, I see a development option of how to create several branch-forming state enterprises of the socialist type in the form of a competitor to the current state of affairs. With a minimal difference in wages between a director and a worker, complete transparency and mandatory testing for the ability to take socially significant actions. Something like this. Like the Mondragore corporation in Spain, the island of socialism in the capitalist world.
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 5 November 2021 22: 40
            -1
            The development paradigm needs to be changed.

            Look at the root. I agree ... definitely. Now, under the slogan "the market itself regulates everything", lawlessness is happening, with all that it implies.
            But changing the paradigm is a revolution .. In a good sense of the word .. if you really fantasize, then I believe that the best that was in the USSR must be returned. And of course, so that there are funds for the implementation of the new paradigm, then natural resources, energy, the largest enterprises ... should be in the hands of the state. And small and medium-sized businesses should be ... although it is not dogmatic ... but practical ... Business should act as a generator of ideas and demonstrate their viability, all this is under the control and support of the state.
            The trouble is that Money is chosen as a criterion for the success of Science, personality, state.

            Money is just a tool ... and where it will be directed and by what rules it will be played should be determined by the state, but above all there should be an idea .. Now the pernicious ideology of consumerism .. and I don’t know how to change it .. there are no assumptions ... By the most cunning manipulation, people are deceived .. they are deceived by the fact that everyone has a chance to be rich, you just need to work hard, develop and so on .. and it works ..
            How do you think it is possible to change the paradigm?
            Therefore, I see a development option of how to create several branch-forming state enterprises of the socialist type in the form of a competitor to the current state of affairs

            They will not give it .. even if such an initiative had passed, it would have been exponentially destroyed .. yes, from all the irons they would pour mud on socialism .. they say, they gave the opportunity .. but no .. not viable.
            1. aybolyt678
              aybolyt678 6 November 2021 09: 57
              0
              Quote: Svarog
              they would pour mud on socialism out of all the irons.

              I mentioned the Mondragor corporation for a reason. It is formally a corporation of cooperatives on a contractual basis. Where every worker has a share in property and a salary. In our reality, it can be a joint-stock company with a share of the state capital. The fundamental difference from the existing system is that the top-level salary depends on the salary of everyone, there can be no big gap. That's all.
              Quote: Svarog
              But changing the paradigm is a revolution ..

              a revolution implies a change in the state system, a redistribution of power ... This is not the case. Just a variant of the development of state capitalism. Where state enterprises are created according to certain rules: a director, an elective position has a salary 10 times higher than that of a worker. The state is obliged to calculate the plan and give the state order, to control. You don't need to break anything. Just a few enterprises ... And it is necessary to talk about this, creating a public mood, to demand from the authorities. The idea captured the masses ... laughing
              1. Svarog
                Svarog 6 November 2021 10: 34
                -1
                I mentioned the Mondragor corporation for a reason. It is formally a corporation of cooperatives on a contractual basis. Where every worker has a share in property and a salary. In our reality, it can be a joint-stock company with a share of the state capital. The fundamental difference from the existing system is that the top-level salary depends on the salary of everyone, there can be no big gap. That's all.

                An interesting idea .. But it implies giving out most of the profits to employees .. And given today's realities, no one will do this .. After all, they don't even want to do the elementary things, how many ecological disasters we had just this year? They do not want to invest a penny, they use to the limit all the power remaining from the USSR .. and then we need to return to the paradigm shift .. but how can we change it without a revolution?
                The state is obliged to calculate the plan and give the state order, to control. No need to break anything

                Well ... there is a whole chain that needs to be broken .. After all, the state order is money, which means kickbacks, who will control? Everyone is tied, the system needs to be completely broken ..
                Control is the most important component .. and how will it be implemented, where to get people who are ready to control honestly?
                Well, the planned economy is unacceptable for the liberals ... which means breaking again ...
                Overall a very good idea based on a fair distribution of income. And justice should be at the head of everything .. But I think today is not realizable.
                1. aybolyt678
                  aybolyt678 6 November 2021 10: 43
                  0
                  Quote: Svarog
                  But I think it is not realizable today.

                  there is only one argument: why is it implemented in Spain but it is impossible in our country? I'm trying to figure it out myself. I agree with you too.
                  1. Svarog
                    Svarog 6 November 2021 10: 47
                    -1
                    Quote: aybolyt678
                    Quote: Svarog
                    But I think it is not realizable today.

                    there is only one argument: why is it implemented in Spain but it is impossible in our country?

                    Perhaps with us. But for this, there must at least be elections ... how in the conditions of uncontested elections you can change the paradigm .. People have been in power for twenty years, they can no longer change anything, it is not they who control the system, but the system once built by them .. also controls. I think for this reason nothing can be changed here. No revolutions ..
                    1. aybolyt678
                      aybolyt678 7 November 2021 23: 17
                      +1
                      Quote: Svarog
                      to change anything with us. No revolutions ..

                      In this case, a revolution in the interests of society is impossible in principle. The fact is that we do not have consolidated groups of the population. A hundred years ago, workers lived in dormitories, and now there are no workers in dormitories, the largest social group is consumers.
                      1. Svarog
                        Svarog 7 November 2021 23: 59
                        -1
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        Quote: Svarog
                        to change anything with us. No revolutions ..

                        In this case, a revolution in the interests of society is impossible in principle. The fact is that we do not have consolidated groups of the population. A hundred years ago, workers lived in dormitories, and now there are no workers in dormitories, the largest social group is consumers.

                        Again, I agree. The situation is such that I have an extremely pessimistic view of the future. hi
          2. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 7 November 2021 22: 10
            +1
            There is a thermonuclear fusion unit in the city of Sarov.

            As far as I remember, laser compression is practiced there? This is an alternative to TOKAMAK.
      2. Doccor18
        Doccor18 5 November 2021 09: 27
        +8
        Quote: Dimy4
        Therefore, everything is based on almost naked enthusiasm. on fans of their craft ...

        The key word is “naked”, because it is not paid for, therefore, the number of “naked” enthusiasts and fans of their business (true patriots of the Motherland) is decreasing from year to year.
    3. Gardamir
      Gardamir 5 November 2021 07: 25
      +16
      From the article, we can conclude. the country is ruled by traitors, they measure everything, and how they assess Russia in the West. By themselves, Russia's achievements are nothing, the main thing is to enter the Western ratings.
      1. Doccor18
        Doccor18 5 November 2021 09: 33
        +12
        The main task is to recognize the right of local princelings (to leave the loot) from foreign hardened thieves (with a powerful experience of shoeing the whole world, over the centuries). If they recognize for their own, recognize the right to eternal use of the loot, then there is nothing more to worry about, everything else in the country is being decided ...
    4. Clear
      Clear 5 November 2021 11: 57
      +2
      Once again, a private office SCOPUS from a "friendly" UK determines (albeit indirectly) whether a scientist from Moscow State University will work as the head of the department or not.

      The answer is in the article.
      There is only one way out in this situation - to create our own independent system of scientometrics with home-grown impact factors and Russian analogues SCOPUS.
      1. novel66
        novel66 5 November 2021 12: 10
        +7
        return to the Soviet system ... although this is hardly
        1. Clear
          Clear 5 November 2021 12: 24
          0
          Quote: novel xnumx
          return to the Soviet system ... although this is hardly

          Agree. But, you need to take some elements.
          1. novel66
            novel66 5 November 2021 12: 25
            +4
            there should be political will, and this is hardly
            1. Clear
              Clear 5 November 2021 12: 33
              +2
              Quote: novel xnumx
              there should be political will, and this is hardly

              Yes, we will think with risks in mind. But, and there "we'll have a look." The threat from inaction will be primarily the political power itself.
              1. novel66
                novel66 5 November 2021 12: 35
                +2
                the impression that they do not care
                1. Clear
                  Clear 5 November 2021 12: 38
                  +2
                  Quote: novel xnumx
                  the impression that they do not care

                  As long as A. Fursenko is an assistant to the President of the Russian Federation in this area (science and education), nothing can be changed.
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 5 November 2021 12: 49
                    +4
                    Quote: Clear
                    As long as A. Fursenko is an assistant to the President of the Russian Federation in this area (science and education), nothing can be changed.

                    Or maybe it's not the bobbin when the dolt sits in the cockpit? wink
                    1. Clear
                      Clear 5 November 2021 16: 00
                      +2
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      Quote: Clear
                      As long as A. Fursenko is an assistant to the President of the Russian Federation in this area (science and education), nothing can be changed.

                      Or maybe it's not the bobbin when the dolt sits in the cockpit? wink

                      And who are you planning to put behind the wheel? Specifically. Sobchak or what?
                      1. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 5 November 2021 16: 15
                        0
                        Quote: Clear
                        Specifically. Sobchak or what?

                        Damn, as the proponents of uncontested theories have zadolbali.
                        Do you seriously think that this person, slowly but surely pulling the country into the abyss, is better than the same Grudinin, Platoshkin, Navalny, Potapenko, Strelkov, etc.?
                        Are you tired of this position of no alternative? Can't you see that it was created artificially?
                      2. Clear
                        Clear 5 November 2021 17: 00
                        -1
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Damn, as the proponents of uncontested theories have zadolbali.
                        Although "zadolbanny" it sounds proud, but you need to be more tolerant, otherwise you will not be handed over for medical reasons. No.


                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Do you seriously think that this person, slowly but surely pulling the country into the abyss, is better than the same Grudinin, Platoshkin, Navalny, Potapenko, Strelkov, etc.?
                        It is better for you to shine in the "Yeltsin Center" on the immature young minds. Your company lacks Chubais. He will not forgive you for this. Moreover, many of them were in power in the 90s and 00s. In those days, even in the Yeltsin Administration there were at least 50 advisers from the US State Department. But that abyss of the collapse of Russia "this is different" but it was democratic.

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Are you tired of this position of no alternative? Can't you see that it was created artificially?
                        God forbid such alternatives whom you indicated.
                        The likes of them have already shaken the Russian Empire in 1917 and the Union in 1991.
                        Play too, for the time being in anti-vaccines.
                        And, there will be elections, and again the majority will multiply them by zero.
                      3. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 5 November 2021 17: 08
                        +1
                        Quote: Clear
                        otherwise, for medical reasons, power will not be handed over to you.

                        Judging by the presence in the power of people with a clearly impaired perception of reality, it is just such people who are taken there!
                        And you are right, that is why it does not shine for me there! laughing
                        By the way, you also have a gap in the perception of reality - you seem to identify the liberot with the Yeltsin Center, but how then does Putin fit into your paradigm of thinking, annually visiting this object and laying flowers on the grave of the EBN? And by the way, he was opening the memorial to Solzhenitsyn with pomp.
                        Quote: Clear
                        And, there will be elections, again the majority will multiply them by zero

                        You know perfectly well who multiplied them by zero, but for some reason you are shamelessly lying.
                        This is easy to check by walking with a survey on the street of any city, with a camera in non-stop mode.
                      4. Clear
                        Clear 5 November 2021 17: 30
                        0
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        And you are right, that is why it does not shine for me there!
                        Well, we found out where the phobia came from. The first step to recovery.


                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        How then does Putin fit into your paradigm of thinking, annually visiting this facility and laying flowers on the grave of EBN? And by the way, he was opening the memorial to Solzhenitsyn with pomp.
                        And where, my dear man, I wrote that Putin is in my paradigm? Canceled the first step to recovery request

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        You know perfectly well who multiplied them by zero, but for some reason you are shamelessly lying.
                        This is easy to check by walking with a survey on the street of any city, with a camera in non-stop mode.
                        Smiled, especially about the camera.
                      5. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 5 November 2021 19: 13
                        -1
                        Quote: Clear
                        Well, we found out where the phobia came from.

                        Do you know what a phobia is?
                        Quote: Clear
                        And where, my dear man, I wrote that Putin is in my paradigm?

                        Come on? wink
                        Quote: Clear
                        And who are you planning to put behind the wheel? Specifically. Sobchak or what?

                        Isn't this a lick of the incumbent power? Really little by little, with a twist? wink
                        Quote: Clear
                        Smiled, especially about the camera.

                        And what is the reason for the fun?
                    2. Alexga
                      Alexga 5 November 2021 21: 46
                      -5
                      No, do not gouge to blame, most likely the gasket.
                      1. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 5 November 2021 22: 27
                        -1
                        Quote: AlexGa
                        No, do not gouge to blame, most likely the gasket.

                        As always, the boyars are mowing! laughing drinks
                  2. novel66
                    novel66 5 November 2021 12: 49
                    +6
                    A. Fursenko
                    this is already a curse ...
                    1. Clear
                      Clear 5 November 2021 18: 46
                      +1
                      Quote: novel xnumx
                      A. Fursenko
                      this is already a curse ...

                      Here I have a personal dislike for him, to eat already ... request

          2. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 8 November 2021 11: 13
            +1
            Quote: Clear
            Agree. But, you need to take some elements.

            + exactly the elements ... And not to break the existing system, but simply to create a number of state-owned enterprises in critical areas with socialist principles - planning, government orders, a minimum wage gap between management and employees ... with the right approach, it will be obvious which is better!
            1. Clear
              Clear 8 November 2021 15: 23
              +2
              Quote: aybolyt678
              Quote: Clear
              Agree. But, you need to take some elements.

              + exactly the elements ... And not to break the existing system, but simply to create a number of state-owned enterprises in critical areas with socialist principles - planning, government orders, a minimum wage gap between management and employees ... with the right approach, it will be obvious which is better!

              Yes, this is what was adopted from the USSR and is now used by a number of countries. yes
        2. Dartik
          Dartik 6 November 2021 19: 11
          0
          Quote: novel xnumx
          return to the Soviet system ... although this is hardly

          Will there be a history of the CPSU too?
          1. novel66
            novel66 7 November 2021 10: 00
            +2
            and what. creepy?
            1. Dartik
              Dartik 7 November 2021 16: 19
              -2
              Quote: novel xnumx
              and what. creepy?

              No, but it must be thrown into the dustbin of history (although, it is already))
          2. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 8 November 2021 11: 14
            0
            Quote: Dartik
            Will there be a history of the CPSU too?

            and the Communist Party will also be, everything will be, just not to allow lies
    5. Lara Croft
      Lara Croft 5 November 2021 15: 04
      +2
      Quote: bairat
      the real enemy, without hesitation, skims the cream, takes the best minds. There are no barriers.

      And what barriers should there be, if I'm not studying for a contract, who will prevent me from working where I want after graduation?
      In the United States, for example, a student after graduation owes the state for his studies, and he has no options to wave his pen and go to work for the enemies of his state, at least for the first ten years.

      What kind of heresy? If you pay for yourself or receive a scholarship from a university for a good study, then no one will force you to work for the state?
      We also cannot keep them with a salary, a young nuclear physicist is offered 25 tr., There 3-4 th. €.

      Well, from your comment, I realized that
      young nuclear physicist
      you are not ready to pay more, but exit barriers must be put in place ....
      1. bairat
        bairat 5 November 2021 17: 12
        +2
        And what barriers should there be, if I'm not studying for a contract, who will prevent me from working where I want after graduation?

        If you study at your own expense, then there are no questions. If at the expense of the budget, then questions arise.
        What kind of heresy? If you pay for yourself or receive a scholarship from a university for a good study, then no one will force you to work for the state?

        And those who pay themselves, or are so gifted that they receive a scholarship (it does not cover the entire cost of education), well, within 10%. The rest study on credit.
        you are not ready to pay more, but exit barriers must be put in place ....

        To teach a person for 15 years, then to let him go to all 4 sides, which is unreasonable in this. By the way, I pay more, there is one nuclear physicist in the family.)
        1. Lara Croft
          Lara Croft 5 November 2021 17: 30
          -1
          Quote: bairat
          If at the expense of the budget, then questions arise.

          Well, for example, I worked and at the same time studied at the magistracy on a budget, what questions do you personally have for me because of this?
          And those who pay themselves, or are so gifted that they receive a scholarship (it does not cover the entire cost of education), well, within 10%. The rest study on credit.

          There, almost everyone pays on credit, i.e. money from the Bank goes to the university, and after graduating from the university, the students return this money to the Bank .... accordingly, the paying students are not bound by any (monetary) obligation, neither with the university, nor with the state ...
          Either admit the "Mexican villain" served his first contract in the US Armed Forces and the US Department of Defense pays for it ...
          Further, I have already said, there are those who study on a university scholarship because of their talent or because of membership in a university volleyball team ...
          The state-woo should be those who get into the university in the direction of any state body ... we also widely practice this, and we have these comrades in priority ...
          The same is true if the student is directed by some corporation ....
          I had an acquaintance, he was sent to Gubkin to study at the Ryazan Oil Refinery ...
          To teach a person for 15 years, then to let him go to all 4 sides, which is unreasonable in this.

          What is the unreasonableness? For example, I entered MEPhI, on the budget, which I owe to the state, they will force me to sign a contract where I owe everything, but nothing to me, I will send this MEPhI and go to study in MIRA or MAI ...
          I should be interested in the state, not me. The guarantee of my affordable education is Article 5 of the Federal Law "On Education". If the state needs a specialist in nuclear physics, let him interest me in the conditions, the times of serfs are over ...
          1. dauria
            dauria 6 November 2021 01: 25
            +6
            If the state needs a specialist in nuclear physics, let him interest me in the conditions, the times of serfs are over ...


            Yeah. The market will decide everything .... "A physicist is required to derive a formula that unites four fundamental interactions .. Payment only on performance ..."
            All this is nonsense. To have scientists, everyone must be taught. Then select the smart ones. Then some of them are very smart. Then from the very smart gifted. The gifted will probably give visible results. But this does not mean that the rest are unnecessary. They are also needed - they are the ones who will do 99% of the work so that someone "dawns".
            We need to take care of everyone. From plasterer to professor. Here is such a simple thing.
            You won't be able to buy ready-made, everything will flow between your fingers. Do you think Sakharov was valuable to ours or the Americans as a physicist? Don't give a damn about him. But he was admitted to the general development of everyone, to the general level - that is why he was not released.
            And money ? The country should provide a tolerable life for not scientists - for everyone. A library cleaner with a minibus driver will run away - no one will need a genius. Neither real nor fake.
            1. Lara Croft
              Lara Croft 6 November 2021 14: 10
              -1
              Quote: dauria
              Yeah. The market will decide everything .... "A physicist is required to derive a formula that unites four fundamental interactions .. Payment only on performance ..."

              Well, there is also an educational market ... if a child has not entered a prestigious university, it means he will go to study in a less prestigious one or go to work, and then a year later he will enter a prestigious one, everything depends on the person ...
              And stop here for me to agitate "for the Soviet power", I closed down vocational schools, vocational schools, vocational schools in the early 90s, at best (like mine) they united vocational schools with the College and called this "push-and-pull" college ... ...
              All this is nonsense. To have scientists, everyone must be taught. Then select the smart ones. Then some of them are very smart. Then from the very smart gifted. The gifted will probably give visible results.

              Who will teach? Those who did not enter MIRA / MEPhI went to the Pedagogical? It's not funny ourselves ...
              A student who enrolled in MAI or MADI, for example, should see his perspective, and what is his perspective, if the auto industry and aircraft construction "lies" ...
              The country should provide a tolerable life for not scientists - for everyone.

              A country or private trader will pay only to those scientists who are engaged in projects that are necessary for the country and private trader, so all over the world, there scientists are paid for certain projects, the scientist publishes his scientific work, if it becomes interesting to someone, then his idea is financed and he carries out his theory "into iron" ....
              Before providing a scientist with housing, they look at his scientific works, patents, his participation in scientific projects
              In general, the salary of the empirialists consists of successful completed projects and the participation of their specialists, the more often you are involved in various projects, the more the state department needs you for your company ...
              And so we have a whole RAS, the Duma thinks and cites others from others their statements ...
              Take, for example, the National Research Center for Epidemiology and Microbiology named after the honorary academician N.F. Gamaleya, it seems that they developed an anticoid vaccine within its walls, but only they "developed" it after the Government helped them with bio-chemists and virologists from the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation did not send, from the scientists from the RAMS, nothing was heard at all, how everyone died ...
              A library cleaner with a minibus driver will run away - no one will need a genius. Neither real nor fake.

              So they already run, so they did not pay them extra for harm in covid centers, so they ran ...
    6. SavranP
      SavranP 6 November 2021 20: 48
      0
      Anyone who studied in budgetary groups, probably should pay tuition when leaving the country for permanent residence? But in Russia, many study for a fee, of course not nuclear physicists. How to deal with them? Or are they not among the best minds? In general, in my opinion, the problem with leaving is exaggerated. Leaving their country, changing the usual way, people of a special warehouse, easy-going. Tumbleweed, otherwise. Should we regret their loss? It's hard to say, it's probably a matter of taste.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 7 November 2021 22: 15
        +1
        But in Russia, many study for a fee, of course not nuclear physicists. How to deal with them? Or are they not among the best minds?

        Since I teach in a higher school, I declare with responsibility that the payers are not needed at all. They do not study, considering that they have already paid for the diploma. And they do not belong to knowledgeable specialists at all.
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. Dimy4
    Dimy4 5 November 2021 06: 09
    +11
    Who determines our foreign and domestic policy? That's right, head of state. But the head of state cannot follow everything at once and keep the country under manual control, he does this with the help of top-level leaders of ministers and others equated to them, from them and the demand. And then two thoughts come to mind: either such "specialists" are forcibly imposed on our head, which is unlikely. Either this chapter does not care so much that it is going on inside the country that anyone gets to the post of ministers, most importantly - if only he is not an expert in this area. Formula "The king is good, but the boyars are bad." does not pass.
  4. Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 5 November 2021 06: 50
    -6
    my opinion is that everything is turned upside down in science, and the problem is much deeper than the author writes, in general, all these ratings are meaningless, meaningless and scientific degrees now they are all just bought, it is meaningless and to finance science in one form or another, there must be grants for real practical research, and that's it, ... you need to disperse all these parasites under the guise of science, rivet reports and articles in magazines that no one reads
  5. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 5 November 2021 06: 53
    +10
    Since the 90s, we have been systematically crippling both secondary and higher education. With the arrival of each new minister of education, "perestroika" begins. At the same time, each new minister wants to leave his mark in history, or, more correctly, to inherit.
    private office SCOPUS from "friendly" UK ...
    So the "reformers" of the 90s did not just go to this, they fled. Wanted like theirs and for them to recognize - get it. And the claims to those Messrs. Liberals who are still alive and do not live badly, and some abroad.
  6. nickolai.maliugin
    nickolai.maliugin 5 November 2021 07: 13
    +3
    I ran through the topics of the day. Astakhov laments in Constantinople that society has yielded to antihuman lobbyists in law and law. On VO I read about the wave of the bourgeois revolution. And finally, about the concessions of our science to the West. I just want to shout - "Duty officer! Turn on the light! Stop wandering in the dark. We rummage on the shelves, and we drop valuable things." You just need to determine the path and go in the right direction. ... The whole is created from the details. And the devil is in good intentions, with which the road to hell is paved. For such intentions are a thousand times greater than deeds.
  7. Svarog
    Svarog 5 November 2021 07: 23
    +5
    Among the latter, for example, the Institute of Chemical Physics, where the only Russian Nobel laureate in chemistry Nikolai Semenov worked.

    Why the only one? There were many Nobel laureates in the USSR ..
    Cherenkov, Frank, Tamm, Landau, Basov, Alferov .. Kapitsa ..
    With this approach, we will not need any notorious foreign agents for the collapse of the country, enough of our own
    .
    The author began to suspect something .. already good. Only the collapse is already and is rapidly gaining momentum.
    1. Evgeny Fedorov
      5 November 2021 08: 28
      +11
      Why the only one? There were many Nobel laureates in the USSR ..
      Cherenkov, Frank, Tamm, Landau, Basov, Alferov .. Kapitsa ..

      In chemistry - the only one. Everyone you listed is physics laureates
      1. Lara Croft
        Lara Croft 5 November 2021 15: 50
        -1
        Quote: Yevgeny Fedorov
        Why the only one? There were many Nobel laureates in the USSR ..
        Cherenkov, Frank, Tamm, Landau, Basov, Alferov .. Kapitsa ..

        In chemistry - the only one. Everyone you listed is physics laureates

        The general knows better, observe the chain of command ...
  8. parusnik
    parusnik 5 November 2021 07: 38
    +11
    The bastards, the British and the Americans, have ruined science and education in Russia, planted, do you understand us your standards and how you overlooked? smile
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 5 November 2021 08: 14
      -1
      I would be interested to know how many years the author worked in the university education system ...
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 5 November 2021 08: 23
        +4
        When the author wrote about measures against covid, he indicated that he was a Ph.D. smile
      2. Evgeny Fedorov
        5 November 2021 11: 14
        +9
        In the university system for 5 years. Now I work closely with higher education. What I see, I don't like it at all. I'll take pedagogical education. graduate half-educated bachelors with 5 years of education. Specialists of a wide profile - according to the diploma they can teach Russian, foreign, history and society. Maybe something else can. Recently I was at the final exam of future teachers. Knowledge of chemistry at the level of grade 11 student! It is generally better to keep silent about the protection of the WRC.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 5 November 2021 13: 06
          0
          Dear Eugene! Thanks for the answer. I read your articles and was somewhat surprised by the choice of the topic. But it's good that you write about what you know firsthand. 5 years for an intelligent person is quite enough time to see all the vices of the system and even have time to gorge on them. But in the USSR in 1977 I had to teach in a rural school, in addition to history and English (profile), also geography, astronomy, labor and ... a technical circle, and then also drawing. The profile is nowhere wider. Now my granddaughter is getting higher education and I am aware of how they teach now. Every second teacher, alas, is a fool. But it was like this before, that's the trouble ...
        2. Dante Alighieri
          Dante Alighieri 5 November 2021 14: 32
          +9
          Eugene, well then you should know that in addition to Scorpus, from any applicant for the position of assistant professor or head. the department also requires the presence of articles in journals indexed in the RSCI and VAK systems, i.e. it is in the Russian databases of scientific publications, and the number of these should be several times greater than in Scorpus. And if publishing in the RSCI editions is not difficult even for an ordinary student (and for a master's student this is a prerequisite for approbation of the study), then in order to publish an article in a journal related to the VAK system, you need, in fact, go through the defense of research in miniature: with an assessment by a reviewer and discussion by an editorial committee. So this level is no less honorable than publishing in foreign magazines, although, I admit, it does not bring so many dividends. As for Scorpus, the personalities you cited as experts are a little cunning, since for their level of publication in it they hardly constitute a significant problem and most likely rest solely on the financial issue.

          In general, higher education has a lot of problems today. And what you described is the smallest of them, albeit also unpleasant. The key, in my opinion, the problem in many universities in the country today is that the administrative staff of higher educational organizations largely prevails over those who are directly involved in science and education. As a result, the number of reports and reviewers only grows every year, while the number of teaching staff is steadily declining.

          Another problem, also arising from the imperative of "managers" over "researchers", is the desire of the administration to prolong its powers as much as possible, allowing for as long as possible to engage in the development of budgetary funds and funds additionally attracted within the framework of the provision of paid educational services. For example, for former rectors, the positions of the President are introduced and even a staff is created that provides (or rather serves) their activities, and the graduating departments are included in the cumbersome and clumsy Institutes, the heads of which are appointed by the rector himself, without taking into account the opinions of the staff members of his departments. The latter is done primarily in order to deprive the head of the department of the right to vote on the academic council when choosing the next rector, when the current term of office comes to an end. Now, instead of them, only directors of institutes are vested with such a right, whose candidacies, let me remind you, are approved by the rector himself. All this creates a situation where a single character can hold the position of the head of a higher educational organization / institution for almost unlimited time. The only buffer that he has to go through is to agree on his candidacy with the Ministry of Science and Higher Education, which is easily resolved if there is patronage or regular tranches of money to interested parties. This situation does not remind you of anything, does it? I will warn you: all comparisons are accidental and are purely the fruit of your personal fevered imagination, for which I am not responsible.

          In general, it is necessary to understand: higher education is not a thing in itself, it is the same part of our society, like everything else, and it is influenced by exactly the same destructive tendencies as other spheres of our long-suffering state. So is it any wonder that instead of centers for the production of new knowledge, institutions have turned into tools for making money, that the best minds go abroad or simply stop doing science? The only thing that needs to be answered is: is there a fault in higher education itself, in the people who form it, or in this state of affairs are primarily those who consciously formed such conditions in which universities are forced to live and function today?

          I know one thing - there are no easy recipes, by the type: let us give up Scorpus and live, there cannot be. The problem needs to be addressed comprehensively. Otherwise, degradation is inevitable.
          1. Lara Croft
            Lara Croft 5 November 2021 16: 15
            0
            Quote: Dante
            And if publishing in the RSCI editions is not difficult even for an ordinary student (and for a master's student, this is a prerequisite for approbation of the study),

            I completely agree with you except for the above phrase, master Optional to have scientific articles, especially VAK, such a requirement exists only starting with a graduate student ...
            Defending my master's thesis (in 2013) I had 8 articles (3 of them VAK) 5 of them on the topic of the dissertation, but I was not obliged to write them, if I am wrong, refer to the rule of law that refutes my statement .. ...
            The work is ready. The next important question is where you can publish a scientific article for the master. It all depends on the goals. If you plan to enter postgraduate studies in the future, you should pay attention to publications from the list of the Higher Attestation Commission (Higher Attestation Commission) and the international databases Scopus and Web of Science.

            https://apni.ru/blog/nuzhny-li-nauchnye-stati-dlya-magisterskoj-dissert
            Thus, the presence of Scorpus itself does not interfere with the graduate student, etc. to be published in the VAK edition, removing Scorpus, we will make the VAK editions inaccessible (as it always happens with us) in the absence of a competitor ...
            So the author of the article, to some extent, advocates the absence of a choice where to publish to the same master / graduate student, speculating on the hatred of many members of the forum towards the Empireists ...
            1. Dante Alighieri
              Dante Alighieri 5 November 2021 19: 51
              +1
              Good day.
              I defended the magra in 2016 and we had a mandatory requirement for the presence of at least 2 RSCI articles on the subject of the study. What exactly this requirement was regulated by, I will not say for certain: they said it is necessary - it means it is necessary, I did not argue much. In addition, by that time I already had about 5 publications in the RSCI on the subject of FQP and about 4-5 more on "free reasoning" that this question did not bother me much.
              So the author of the article, to some extent, advocates the absence of a choice where to publish to the same master / graduate student, speculating on the hatred of many members of the forum towards the Empireists ...

              Personally, it seemed to me that the author is more concerned that the performance indicators, and therefore the job assignments, take into account the availability of international publications and give them priority. As a consequence, in his view, leading positions are occupied exclusively by Westerners, who are mainly engaged in planting seditious thoughts in the fragile brains of young Russians who have fallen into their training. So I assure you that the situation is much simpler and most often it is not the agents of the State Department that are at the top, but the bribes dear to the prosecutor's heart, exclusively of domestic spill. However, it is not known which is even worse.

              By the way, some food for thought to Eugene. Recently I came across an absolutely amazing book by A.V. Chudinov, dedicated to the French army in Egypt after Napoleon abandoned his troops and left to build his political career in France. A period completely unexplored by international historians, since the figure of Bonaparte drew all the attention of researchers who, to this day, are more interested in chewing on the events of the 18th Brumaire than remembering the fate of the 40 BC. armies left to fend for themselves in a foreign country and in a hostile environment. The only one who was interested in this topic and who resurrected it from oblivion was Alexander Viktorovich, Doctor of Historical Sciences, a specialist in the study of the history and historiography of the Great French Revolution and the Napoleonic Wars from Arkhangelsk. Many of the documents obtained by him in the archives of the Eastern Army under the Ministry of Defense of France, no one took in hands from the day they entered the archive, and after work they left traces of grains of sand - grains of Egyptian sand brought to France by the expedition participants in 1799-1801. along with papers. Do you understand? This is a real living story! However, to what extent can this topic be of interest to Russian historiography? I think that's interesting, but nothing more. And how interesting is this topic for foreign researchers? Considering that for this work A.V. Chudinov joined the team of authors of the "Cambridge History of the Napoleonic Wars", I think, even very much. And now a dilemma arises: should we hinder the work of such individuals, limiting the subject of their interest to the borders of Russia, or is knowledge (especially humanitarian knowledge, which is difficult to capitalize in some way) internationally and is intended, first of all, to replenish the general baggage of human experience and memory?
              1. Lara Croft
                Lara Croft 5 November 2021 20: 10
                +1
                Dante (Kirill)in his opinion, leading positions are occupied exclusively by Westerners, mainly engaged in planting seditious thoughts in the fragile brains of young Russians who have fallen into their training

                Probably. Here you have to be a teacher or a body that oversees higher education, from the "bell tower" of a former student it is not so striking, in the "MK" recently there was an article, like, now the "purge" of the administration is going on, "statesmen" are killing "liberoids" .... right up to the institution of criminal embezzlement .... maybe the state starts counting how much dough there is to "break" for someone ....
                And now a dilemma arises: should we hinder the work of such individuals by limiting the subject of their interest to the borders of Russia, or is knowledge (especially humanitarian knowledge, which is difficult to capitalize in some way) internationally and is intended, first of all, to replenish the general baggage of human experience and memory?

                There is no dilemma. Knowledge for a Russian student should be open from different sources ... and in full ... a student after leaving the university should be a human being, and the state should support him at different stages of education, and even more so in his work and work after that .. ...
      3. Clear
        Clear 5 November 2021 12: 35
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        I would be interested to know how many years the author worked in the university education system ...

        Although he raised the topic of the inevitability of reform, that's good.
  9. barin
    barin 5 November 2021 08: 25
    +4
    There is only one way out in this situation - to create our own independent system of scientometrics with home-grown impact factors and Russian analogues SCOPUS

    Not necessary. Soviet science somehow managed without it.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 5 November 2021 13: 07
      -6
      Quote: barin
      Soviet science somehow managed without it.

      But for some reason she could not prevent the system from crashing ...
      1. Gato
        Gato 6 November 2021 12: 34
        +2
        The best Soviet ballet in the world also failed to prevent the collapse of the system ...
  10. prior
    prior 5 November 2021 08: 46
    +1
    Again, our herbivorous "sheep" and "calves" are trying to become like the Western predators "hyenas" and "jackals".
    How much you can repeat - we are different.
  11. Doccor18
    Doccor18 5 November 2021 09: 37
    +9
    They existed in the Union as essentially utopian institutions (for example, the Research Institute of Marxism-Leninism) ...

    And who made them so?
    "Without a theory, we die, death .." JV Stalin.
    Lost the theory - lost the country ...
  12. Logic
    Logic 5 November 2021 09: 49
    +2
    The author correctly identified the national threat as the absence of Russian scientometrics.
    Without it, you have to compete with unscrupulous monopolists in their field - that is, to invest financial and spiritual in a losing venture in advance.
    That is, steps to equalize the situation only by increasing funding are not a reform, because they are not initially effective in any monopoly sphere, because ... the source of the problem is not there. The source of the problem is in a different place, and you can limit it by focusing on one thing - if you are interested in what, I will continue.
  13. Doctor
    Doctor 5 November 2021 10: 03
    +9
    The author presents the essence of the problem correctly. But does not indicate the main reason why it does not work. And it is simple. Bosses don't want to lose their seats.

    Try to combine the Research Institute of Gamaleya and the Moscow Medical University. wink

    The first question is whether the independent director of the Research Institute, Academician Ginzburg, will agree to become the de facto head of the Department of Microbiology?

    The second question is whether the head of the Department of Microbiology of the University, Academician Zverev, will actually agree to become the deputy of Ginzburg?

    The third question - will Gamaleya's employees agree to give lectures to stupid students in addition to purely scientific work?

    The fourth question - will the teachers of the University agree to engage in activities similar to real science instead of pseudoscientific work on sculpting a dissertation?

    And a bunch of legal, economic and organizational issues. love
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 5 November 2021 13: 08
      +1
      Excellent comment, Yuri!
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 5 November 2021 14: 04
        +3
        Quote: kalibr
        Excellent comment, Yuri!

        This comment only says that no one controls the system .. which is an absolute fact. The state was eliminated, in fact self-liquidated and turned into an LLC ..
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 5 November 2021 14: 41
          +6
          This comment only says that no one controls the system .. which is an absolute fact. The state was eliminated, in fact self-liquidated and turned into an LLC ..

          The system controls itself. And it is spreading like a coronavirus. laughing

          In 1989, there were 323 full members in the entire USSR, 586 corresponding members.

          Now there are 822 academicians and 1048 corresponding members per RF.

          This is only RAS, not counting medical and agricultural ones. wink
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 5 November 2021 14: 59
            +1
            Quote: Arzt
            This comment only says that no one controls the system .. which is an absolute fact. The state was eliminated, in fact self-liquidated and turned into an LLC ..

            The system controls itself. And it is spreading like a coronavirus. laughing

            In 1989, there were 323 full members in the entire USSR, 586 corresponding members.

            Now there are 822 academicians and 1048 corresponding members per RF.

            This is only RAS, not counting medical and agricultural ones. wink

            That's right .. no control, children, relatives are attached .. so it turns out a huge bunch of parasites, which we keep .. and this is only one area, and so in fact all around.
            Any ministry is already a private shop, which has stuck to the budget, and a dozen more feed on this shop .. In short, byada all around .. byada ..
          2. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 5 November 2021 20: 27
            +1
            The Academy of Medical Sciences and the Russian Academy of Agricultural Sciences were annexed to the Russian Academy of Sciences, they are not there now. Only the Russian Academy of Education remained.
          3. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 7 November 2021 22: 23
            0
            In 1989, there were 323 full members in the entire USSR, 586 corresponding members.

            Now there are 822 academicians and 1048 corresponding members per RF.

            This is only RAS, not counting medical and agricultural ones.

            Nowadays there are no medical and agricultural academics, they are all in the Russian Academy of Sciences. Alyoshin, the reformer of AVTOVAZ, is also an academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
        2. kalibr
          kalibr 5 November 2021 16: 04
          0
          Quote: Svarog
          nobody controls the system.

          If you saw those mountains of folders that the state demanded from our department for recertification, you would not say so! When no one controlled the system, and this was the 90s, we lived great at the university!
  14. Vdi73
    Vdi73 5 November 2021 10: 26
    +7
    We are already selling higher education rather than training.
  15. tank64rus
    tank64rus 5 November 2021 10: 30
    +3
    There is a deliberate destruction of higher education and science. What is the status of HSE and Sberbank in science and education. Officially, none, but all the "reforms" and cadres for the collapse are coming from there. And all these publications are in journals. It is very beneficial to take all the ideas from there. Moreover, for "their" there are some requirements for publications, and others for us. Don't make people laugh about quotations. We are dealing with an organized community, scientific or otherwise, this is for any opinion. If our scientist behaves "correctly" in relation to his country, they will organize everything that is necessary up to the Nobel Prize.
  16. froger
    froger 5 November 2021 11: 17
    +1
    In the humanities, especially in history and political science, the golden age of Russia will come like a flash. The era of Medin's the fact that Malyuta Skuratov not only was not involved in the murder of Metropolitan Philip - a fighter against the atrocities of Ivan the Terrible - but did not even visit the city where Metropolitan Philip, imprisoned there by Ivan the Terrible, languished in a monastery. The era will return when, as in 1948 at the meeting of the All-Union Agricultural Academy, when "real" patriotic scientists like T. D. Lysenko will stigmatize and accuse "despicable cosmopolitans" of betrayal, that is, Russophobes who dared to announce some a fact in history, which, in the opinion of the authorities and the Investigative Committee, is a slander against Russia and therefore could not have a place in history.
    As for the violation by Western historians and political scientists of articles of the Constitution of the Russian Federation, it should be borne in mind that only last year there was a defeat of the Constitution and the adoption of a new Constitution without a popular referendum for one good reason - the adoption of the Tereshkova amendment. And the criticism and rejection by the West of the violation by our authorities of the ancient legal principle "The law has no retroactive effect" is also the Russophobia of the West, which strongly puts pressure on the worldview of our scientists in the field of social sciences.
    So we need to be more careful about introducing “patriotism” into scientific activity.
  17. BAI
    BAI 5 November 2021 12: 08
    +2
    The author describes some difficult path to the chair of the head of a university (research institute). They buy 2 doctoral dissertations by the age of 35, a little cronyism - and voila: you are the rector. Everything. No Scopuses.
    1. Evgeny Fedorov
      5 November 2021 13: 02
      +4
      Why 2 doctoral theses? And the academics right away?
      1. BAI
        BAI 5 November 2021 19: 26
        0
        Well I do not know. The rector of RUDN University has 2 pieces.
    2. kalibr
      kalibr 5 November 2021 13: 10
      -3
      Quote: BAI
      The author describes some difficult path to the chair of the head of a university (research institute). They buy 2 doctoral dissertations by the age of 35, a little cronyism - and voila: you are the rector.

      This is not always the case, believe me. I have been brewing in this system for 32 years.
  18. sleeve
    sleeve 5 November 2021 13: 06
    +3
    It is interesting that a fairly effective concept of education, focused on the acquisition of competencies, takes on some super-perverse forms in the hands of implementers, up to, for example, denying the need for a basic knowledge platform (just tin with one's own psychological education) or what the relative freedom of combining the content of programs leads to. , especially for universities. That is, as always, there is an idea and a message, even the correct goals are sometimes given, but the execution and interpretation ... I'm not talking about the exam. The correct idea of ​​equalizing the performance options and the introduction of an educational rating degenerated into something indecent. Moreover, for the teachers themselves, building these few hours of the exam into something religious. For years, students have been busy with training, more suitable for specialists of a different profile and specifics. Moreover, it is typical for almost any "Soviet" student to slam the exam even after a 20-30 year break with a couple of months of preparation. However, the lobby of "commercial" admission to universities will soon "crash" the Unified State Exam to patriotic fanfare and we will again carry it in envelopes "for the entrance" ...
  19. svoit
    svoit 5 November 2021 14: 41
    0
    In this case, there is no need to talk about the scientific recognition of foreign researchers
    That is, the Russian assessment system will be inaccessible to foreign researchers? And British scientists cannot become professors at all, because they cannot be in the Russian database? We must give them a chance too
  20. Amur
    Amur 5 November 2021 15: 39
    +5
    What does RAS do in general? Obviously not a science. According to materials from foreign media in Denmark, a ship belonging to the wounds was detained. The vessel was leased to a travel agency through an offshore company and was engaged in the transportation of tourists.
    What can we talk about? What universities? Money! Mani, mani, mani ..
  21. Maks1995
    Maks1995 5 November 2021 16: 15
    +3
    There is a problem. Articles about this have been written for 20 years.
    Only the lazy one does not scold.
    But!!!!
    If no one is responsible for 80 lard rubles (and for lard in other places), then someone needs it.
    (summer cottages on the ruble, etc. will not interfere with anyone)

    If any societies under the President haven’t made such a rating, it means that someone should do it.

    And that's all. The elections have already passed. National security is optimized.
  22. p0pulivox
    p0pulivox 5 November 2021 17: 20
    0
    Quote: Dante
    ...
    In general, it is necessary to understand: higher education is not a thing in itself, it is the same part of our society, like everything else, and it is influenced by exactly the same destructive tendencies as other spheres of our long-suffering state. So is it any wonder that instead of centers for the production of new knowledge, institutions have turned into tools for making money, that the best minds go abroad or simply stop doing science? The only thing that needs to be answered is: is there a fault in higher education itself, in the people who form it, or in this state of affairs are primarily those who consciously formed such conditions in which universities are forced to live and function today?
    I know one thing - there are no easy recipes, by the type: let us give up Scorpus and live, there cannot be. The problem needs to be addressed comprehensively. Otherwise, degradation is inevitable.

    In any case, the article is useful, as are the comments to it (especially this one from Kirill).
    In higher education, regardless of departmental affiliation, as in science, there is a whole bunch of interrelated problems - organizational, financial, personnel, legal and corruption, which determine the low efficiency of education and science. All these problems are a special case of national problems, which are either not solved at all or are being solved slowly and poorly. Contradicting the interests of society and the state, resulting from clan interests, the system of negative selection of the so-called. management fundamentally worsened the shortcomings of the old management system. Moreover, this resulted, in particular, in a kind of cargo cult in the construction of educational levels, a regular insane change of useless FSES (private opinion) and an equally monstrous bureaucracy. The famous FANO appeared in science (no comment) ... The underfunding was accompanied by a sharp stratification of the level of payment for teaching staff / researchers and the "directorate" (as elsewhere, however). There is one more interesting thing in our universities - the classroom load of the Russian teaching staff significantly exceeds the load of foreign colleagues. The pursuit of publications leads to a shaft of works sucked out of the finger, of no value. By the way, to some extent, the general state of these matters was reflected in the vague history with scientific and practical articles about our vaccines against covid. Most universities and some (?) Research institutes have a weak material base for conducting modern scientific research. An oil painting would be incomplete without mentioning the not very good level of training of applicants and their low motivation to study (among many), and not all teachers are at their best, alas.
    1. Dante Alighieri
      Dante Alighieri 5 November 2021 20: 57
      +2
      Hello. Thank you for your kind words addressed to me. It's nice to see another person here who is directly familiar with the topic. I completely agree with your personal opinion about the Federal State Educational Standard. In my native Altai State University, bringing training programs in line with the newly changed requirements has literally become a fix idea bordering on manic disorder. Every six months, the department frantically puts all the documents in order in order to submit them upstairs for verification to a specially created unit solely so that the documents hang there for a few more months, returning a few days before the deadline with a resolution: "All the garbage, let's do it again." And so over and over again. I’m already silent, about that surre what happens before accreditation ... And there is nothing to argue about the rest of the points you voiced. This is exactly how it is. Fortunately, watching the process, through my classmates who remained to work at the university, I have the opportunity to regularly receive information about the state of affairs in my native alma mater, every time making sure that 5 years ago I made the right choice, deciding not to indulge my ego and stop on the achieved. Although I liked teaching and I still remember these moments with warmth, returning there would not be the most sensible idea, even as a graduate student.
      1. p0pulivox
        p0pulivox 7 November 2021 17: 22
        0
        Kirill, thank you! Indeed, I am familiar with the situation firsthand, and the worst thing from my point of view is that no serious improvement in education and science is expected. It would be all the more strange to hope for fundamental shifts for the better (the famous "breakthroughs" and "breakthroughs" are not counted, they are part of propaganda) ...
  23. V means B
    V means B 5 November 2021 18: 02
    +6
    This is all because few churches are being built in our country, more is needed.
    1. Lara Croft
      Lara Croft 5 November 2021 18: 11
      +2
      Quote: V is for B
      This is all because few churches are being built in our country, more is needed.

      We need to build more madhouses, but you are right and churches ...
  24. bk0010
    bk0010 5 November 2021 18: 14
    +2
    By and large, one cannot argue against the laws of physics and mathematics.
    Ha (as Tatra says)! Remember Petrik and company. "Facts are a stubborn thing," said the investigator, "but we are not bastard either!"
  25. Citizen simple (almost)
    Citizen simple (almost) 5 November 2021 18: 49
    +3
    The problem, of course, is raised very serious - such "splits" in the scientific world will definitely not lead to good. However, as far as I can remember ...

    First, practically all problems are only in the field of history (more precisely, in the field of various "historical views"). There are no problems in other humanities.
    Secondly, even in the field of history, the main "stumbling block" between our and Western historians is one - the Stalinist period (mainly the pre-war events).

    That is, a Russian historian can perfectly write scientific articles in Western journals on a host of other topics - from ancient history to the latest events.

    Therefore, here the author's "alarmism" (as well as a number of scientists cited in the article) is completely incomprehensible to me, to be honest. Historians who specialize in any other epoch and who want to build a world name for themselves can perfectly continue to do this, right?

    the requirements of British journals for authors from Russia to choose topics for articles exclusively on topical issues for Europe

    But this really sounds like nonsense and deliberate politicization of the issue, in my opinion.
    Nobody "indicates the topic" of a scientific work to a historian. The historian FIRST writes his scientific work (on any the topic chosen by him in his specialization !!!) - and only AFTER writing it sends it to a scientific journal.

    But comrades Sardaryan and Okorokov are trying to assure us that, they say, if they write brilliant works on the history of Ancient Russia (for example), then their works are supposedly "the vile British will not let it in, because the Kremlin's foreign policy is not criticized there"... Agree, it all sounds like bullshit ???
    So, maybe it’s not about the British at all, but about the very absence of such brilliant works by the abovementioned comrades, worthy of major scientific journals?

    Therefore...
    to create its own independent system of scientometrics with homegrown impact factors and Russian analogues SCOPUS ...

    ... This will turn out to be just a longed-for "sinecure" for those representatives of Russian historical science who are simply not able to break through anywhere higher.
    And in the first place they will not have history, but a desire to please their "patrons" - they will write absolutely anything at their "order" to work out their homegrown "indexes" (even though the leader's pedigree will be traced back to any heroic personality of the past).

    It seems to me alone that this venture will not lead to anything good at all - except for just generating another "pseudo-patriotic" structure in the hands of the current government?

    PS.
    Historical science always gives rise to a lot of disputes, a lot of sometimes even diametrically opposed views on the same events. And you need to be right there prove, smashing opponents with real evidence and facts - instead of another game of "offended" and cuckolding in your own cozy little world.
    You are proposing a "sovereign history" ... Let's say for a second ... Well, then what? "Sovereign physics" or "sovereign mathematics"? But this will no longer be science, dear Eugene, but her profanation - I hope you understand that too ...
    1. unaha
      unaha 8 November 2021 16: 00
      +1
      "It seems to me alone that this undertaking will not lead absolutely to anything good" - no, not for you alone.
      That's right, a very sane comment.
  26. Ingvar K
    Ingvar K 6 November 2021 05: 03
    -1
    The author of the article is some kind of idiot. His idea - let's copy the British crap, which is geared to manipulate the natives. Who is he going to equalize, the Belarusians or what?
    Any state is built on a management system. The basis of the management system is middle managers who have been trained for years. And the training of future bosses is based on the education system, starting from school. The Western system of education and science is based on grants - if you want to make money in science, look for a grant and convince the sponsor that you are useful to him. That is, the number of publications is just a pass for an interview. We have budget funding and there is no Stalin, when for hack or not completing the assignment, they took a Sabbath without ceremony.
  27. indy424
    indy424 6 November 2021 08: 28
    +3
    "Dean of the Faculty of Governance and Politics Henry Sardaryan spoke about the demands of British journals to authors from Russia to choose topics for articles exclusively on topical issues for Europe." does he think that no one who reads this has ever submitted articles to magazines?
    1. Lara Croft
      Lara Croft 6 November 2021 14: 22
      +1
      Quote: indy424
      "Dean of the Faculty of Governance and Politics Henry Sardaryan spoke about the demands of British journals to authors from Russia to choose topics for articles exclusively on topical issues for Europe." does he think that no one who reads this has ever submitted articles to magazines?

      Yes, there are often ordered articles to excite the jingoistic patriots with their nonsense ...
  28. Hindu
    Hindu 6 November 2021 08: 49
    0
    There is no need to fight the country, it is enough to destroy education and health care (reform them endlessly): the dead and stupid will destroy themselves. It seems that this strategy has been applied to our country and is working ...
    1. Dartik
      Dartik 8 November 2021 01: 17
      +1
      Quote: Hindu
      There is no need to fight the country, it is enough to destroy education and health care (reform them endlessly): the dead and stupid will destroy themselves. It seems that this strategy has been applied to our country and is working ...

      Why Japan, which lost World War 2, is the leader in scientific achievements in the world, if the United States was literally engaged in them? I am already silent about South Korea, Taiwan.
      1. Citizen simple (almost)
        Citizen simple (almost) 8 November 2021 23: 26
        +2
        Quote: Dartik
        Why Japan, which lost World War 2, is the leader in scientific achievements in the world, if the United States was literally engaged in them? I am already silent about South Korea, Taiwan.

        It is useless to ask, alas.

        For these people, mythical "sovereignty" (in fact, just a skillful manipulation of a gang known to all) is above the well-being of their own country. They do not even understand that this only leads to collapse, they simply do not know how to think beyond one move (or "they are not ordered to think"). There is either stupid stupidity, or "work on assignment" - there is simply no third option, in my opinion ...
  29. billybones
    billybones 6 November 2021 10: 08
    0
    Domestic education (like science) has reached its highest level in the USSR.
    So is it necessary to fence a garden, calling for speculative schemes for the development of this sphere, when a sufficiently successful development option is still remembered?
    This system did not disappear by itself. It was purposefully destroyed. At the same time with the country, of course.
    Today we are witnessing the next stage of breaking down the remnants of Soviet science and education.
    It is clear that today it is impossible to fully recreate this system.
    I do not think that the development of scientometrics (albeit our own, independent) is a step in the right direction.
    Scientometrics is the formalization of what, by definition, is difficult to formalize. The more sophisticated the reporting, the less chances for a normal person to achieve good formal indicators.
    In the mountains of accountability, the hooker and the rascal are always more successful. A creative person will lose in reporting, he is not focused on it.
    The criterion of truth is practice. Banality, but true.
    What to do? At least not to forget the Soviet experience. Which, in turn, took into account the traditions of classical education. With the development of a broad outlook, humanitarian training.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 6 November 2021 13: 07
      +1
      Quote: billybones
      A creative person will lose in reporting, he is not focused on it.

      !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!
    2. Citizen simple (almost)
      Citizen simple (almost) 8 November 2021 23: 37
      -1
      Quote: billybones
      This system did not disappear by itself. It was purposefully destroyed.

      By itself, alas.
      When the country does not have money to finance science - in science and there are only all sorts of mediocrity. And almost all of them are really talented - at least they go to private traders, at most they go abroad, in both cases they pay much more.

      Here's a harsh but simple truth.

      Well, as for "scientometrics" - here you are definitely wrong, it seems to me. If many foreign scientists have read the work of our scientist and found it really convincing, this is actually an indicator of talent (even if it is a formal indicator, but nevertheless).
  30. Eroma
    Eroma 6 November 2021 12: 51
    +2
    In general, a strange situation with the assessment of the work of scientists! what
    In the Soviet Union, science solved the tasks set by the Soviet government, and it was the government that evaluated the achievements of scientists, and today the authorities have no tasks for science? therefore, they are not capable of evaluating scientific works themselves! The humanities are mainly about the development of society, it turns out that we are stupidly floating with the flow, and the flow is not created by us at all! negative unfortunately this is not a path to a bright future
  31. iouris
    iouris 6 November 2021 17: 09
    -1
    Where have you all been for the past 30 years? Have you done careers?
  32. Dartik
    Dartik 6 November 2021 19: 04
    +2
    There is only one way out in this situation - to create our own independent system of scientometrics with home-grown impact factors and Russian analogues SCOPUS.
    And what will it give? Will other countries publish there in Russian? No. Here you need to choose either to close and develop yourself (which is already impossible) or to be embedded in the global world scientific world. The problems of universities are simple - look at the budgets of the top 100 universities in the world and compare not even with Moscow State University, but with HSE, St. Petersburg State University, MIPT and you will understand everything.
  33. SavranP
    SavranP 6 November 2021 21: 25
    -1
    The author is right in the essence of assessing the work of scientists in Russia according to Western ratings. But it seems to me that the author is missing out on the very organization of the work of students and teachers. Apparently due to their age, VO visitors probably do not represent the situation in modern production, design, research, etc. In the Union, project teams, for example, consisted of one or two designers and support: document designers, coordinators, testers, etc. Now the designer has support for virtual cybernetic systems: search, modeling, design, calculation, technological, etc. Coordination of CA, ORD, ED ... can be performed remotely. That is, a large number of employees who are employed in auxiliary jobs are released. The labor productivity of the same designers is sharply increasing. A different system of training specialists is required.
    1. SavranP
      SavranP 6 November 2021 22: 01
      -3
      Students need to be taught not only to work with a specific CAD, CAD, search engine, statistics, accounting, etc., but also the practice of organizing joint work of virtual assistants (VP). Those who have dealt with the organization of the work of human collectives will understand what it is about. Determination of profiles and quality of assistants; splitting the overall work into blocks based on the presence and profiles of the VP; determination of deadlines, intermediate and final; determination of the type, volume, format of the final product ... Everything is the same as with people. And just as complex, diverse and changeable.
      1. SavranP
        SavranP 7 November 2021 10: 05
        -3
        Development continues. In the Soviet Union, in (70-80), there were automatic production lines, there were automatic workshops, automatic factories were designed ... The enterprises opened departments and laboratories of NOT, as well as laboratories for the maintenance and implementation of CNC control systems and "robots" (automatic manipulators, quite brainless). But it seems that the Union did not guess (did not determine) the vector of progress. There was a lag instead of a jerk.
        The modern RF, represented by Rosatom, Roskosmos, Rostec, etc., is quite confidently moving in line with modern trends of progress, sometimes even defining them. New technologies are being introduced: volumetric printing printers; structural honeycomb panels. withstanding heavy loads, with their processing according to the program of the technologist on the CNC; planar automatic assembly of ERIs from cassettes on a machine on the platforms of a multilayer printed circuit board with their fixing by a "heat wave" ... And much more.
        Therefore, the student needs to learn and work with "iron" assistants (ZLP). Such an ensemble of VP and ZhLP will surround each person. Therefore, it is too late to teach the basics of working with this environment of students, it is necessary to start from school. Need MOTIVATION for learning!
    2. Citizen simple (almost)
      Citizen simple (almost) 8 November 2021 23: 52
      +1
      Whoever dealt with the organization of the work of human collectives will understand what it is about.

      Quote: SavranP
      A different system of training specialists is required.

      First of all, students need to be taught think, and not "stupidly memorize". But for this, teachers-"associates" are needed, who are really "sick" with their work. This is where we have the most important problem in universities.

      Who will become a teacher today? Basically, only those who could not break into a higher-paid position in commercial companies. That is, the former "C grade" students. And they "teach" accordingly. This is the main problem.
      1. SavranP
        SavranP 11 November 2021 16: 40
        +2
        I agree with you almost completely, but I wrote above about another problem. I will not describe the advantages of KAD systems, for example. They allow you to create a three-dimensional structure (model) of a product consisting of nodes, blocks, parts, supplied with attributes. In the future, with this model, you can make any sections, types, issue a full set of documentation (automatically!), Carry out strength calculations, simulate loads, dynamic heating of parts and assemblies in operation, etc. Young people easily master the ring road. From childhood, they have a formalized approach to working with a tablet, smartphone, and so on. They need to be taught how to select a "tool according to the hand", organize the joint work of virtual and real "assistants", change their composition and functions if the direction of the specialist's activity changes. Perhaps, here it is necessary to involve in cooperation people who had experience in organizing the work of human collectives.
  34. Skipper
    Skipper 9 November 2021 06: 43
    -1
    I'm shaking with anger. It is necessary to introduce the death penalty and the perpetrators as enemies of the people .... this is not just a crime, but treason to put such a face on the country. I mean the procedure and criteria for evaluating research workers and educational institutions and, in general, the educational system. Are they still so stupid and clumsy ... to fix everything immediately.
  35. Basarev
    Basarev 11 November 2021 21: 29
    +1
    Not only the evil West, the Kremlin also harms science with might and main. The department of theology alone is worth something. Although it would seem that science and religion are antonyms, in the university - the citadel of science - religion has no place. One can also recall commercialization, which cuts off talented but poor people from higher education.