Operation "Karabakh box": Azerbaijan revealed details of actions to destroy Armenian air defense in Nagorno-Karabakh

In the early days of the military conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh, the Azerbaijani army managed to suppress up to 60% of the anti-aircraft complexes included in the Armenian air defense system. This was achieved during a special operation called "Karabakh casket".

Before the outbreak of hostilities in Nagorno-Karabakh, the Azerbaijani Ministry of Defense developed an operation codenamed "Karabakh Box". As the Deputy Minister of Defense, Commander of the Air Force of Azerbaijan, Lieutenant General Ramiz Tairov, explained, within the framework of this operation, several diversionary maneuvers were carried out, which made it possible to open the air defense of Armenia.

According to the general, the Air Force of Azerbaijan at the initial stage of hostilities conducted several imitation aviation attacks, the purpose of which was to force the Armenian anti-aircraft gunners to spend missiles of the Tor-M2KM air defense system and reveal the positions of anti-aircraft systems. This was achieved by launching An-2 aircraft filled with explosives, the pilots of which jumped out with a parachute, as well as reconnaissance Drones.

After opening the positions of the Armenian air defense, a blow was struck with the use of the entire available arsenal of weapons, which made it possible to destroy up to 60% of the anti-aircraft systems.

In the future, the Azerbaijani army, using various drones, including drones-kamikaze, managed to inflict significant damage on the defending army of Armenia. The absence of air defense systems did not allow the army of Nagorno-Karabakh to "close" the sky, while the enemy got the opportunity to strike at positions even in the depths of defense.

According to data from open sources, at the time of the start of hostilities, the air defense system in Nagorno-Karabakh included 24 Osa-AK (M) air defense systems, 6 Tor-M2KM air defense systems, one S-300PS division, 2 Krug air defense battalions, 3 divisions of the "Kub" air defense missile system and one division of the C-125 air defense missile system.

Despite the destruction of most of the air defense, Armenian anti-aircraft gunners managed to shoot down 260 different enemy drones, including over 10 Turkish Bayraktar TB2s. Such data were presented by the Ministry of Defense of Armenia.

Comments

[Bat]

Despite the destruction of most of the air defense, the Armenian anti-aircraft gunners managed to shoot down 260 different enemy drones, including over 10 Turkish Bayraktar TB2s. Such data were presented by the Ministry of Defense of Armenia.

well, how can it be without the Armenian radio ?! along the way, they took the kamikaze into account. 260 drones))) tin. Along the way, there is zero extra.

[alavrin]

Yes, these figures are most likely clearly overestimated. There was a figure of 117 on the Web.
https://diana-mihailova.livejournal.com/5998978.html

[Bat]

Quote: alavrin

Yes, these figures are most likely clearly overestimated. There was a figure of 117 on the Web.
https://diana-mihailova.livejournal.com/5998978.html

117 can already be believed, provided that there are Horops who, having completed the task, self-destructed.

[alavrin]

Yes, of all types, including crafts from aliexpress.

[Bat]

Quote: alavrin

Yes, of all types, including crafts from aliexpress.

Yes, exactly))))))))) Azerbaijan uses drones with Ali-express. As I did not think about it) Keep it up Alex) I love sofa conclusions)

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Yarasa

Keep it up Alex) I love couch conclusions)

Than his couch conclusions are worse than your couch conclusions, "expert" then you are ours?

[Bat]

Quote: Lara Croft

Than his couch conclusions are worse than your couch conclusions, "expert" then you are ours?

I refer exclusively to your authoritative sites. I do not look at the Azerbaijani data at all, so that there are no unnecessary questions.

[Shurik70]

Quote: Yarasa

well, how can it be without the Armenian radio ?! along the way, they took the kamikaze into account. 260 drones))) tin. Along the way, there is zero extra.

Yes, at least overpriced, at least not.
The destruction of UAVs is in advance laid down in the very tactics of their use - "Let the part be destroyed, the rest will complete the task."
In addition, reconnaissance UAVs, unlike heavy drums, can be very cheap. A kamikaze UAV is only slightly more expensive than reconnaissance ones. Terrorists rivet them on their knees and launch dozens and hundreds.
Here are just a Russian base in Syria, and Israel can easily shoot down all these cheap things, unlike unguided missiles. The drone moves slower than the rocket, the fonit on the radar is better than the rocket, and even more vulnerable to electronic warfare.

Conclusion - anti-aircraft gunners screwed up. And about the means of Armenian electronic warfare in this war, nothing was heard at all (except for one single "Krasukha"). That is, the fact that the anti-aircraft gunners screwed up is to blame for the management, not having brought there electronic warfare systems, for example, Avtobaza.

[Yujanin]

Yes, these figures are most likely clearly overestimated. There was a figure of 117 on the Web.

It's like with the number of victims of genocide in the OI. Over time, the numbers will only grow.

[Bat]

Quote: Yujanin

It's like with the number of victims of genocide in the OI.

oh and they will shower you with minus tomatoes now)))))

[Yujanin]

oh and they will shower you with minus tomatoes now)))))

It does not matter. Everyone remembers how during the war the Armenian leadership deceived its citizens. Including the Armenians themselves.

[Bat]

Quote: Yujanin

Everyone remembers how during the war the Armenian leadership deceived its citizens. Including the Armenians themselves.

So this storyteller Asrun has a new position in min. they gave the defense. Looks like the circus continues to tour)

[Yujanin]

So this storyteller Asrun has a new position in min. they gave the defense. Looks like the circus continues to tour)

It is logical. After the defeat, the Armenians re-elected Pashinyan again. Why not return Arsrun back to MO.

[Suleiman]

And most importantly, with such an effort they minus, as if we re-elected Pashinyan

[Bat]

Quote: Yujanin

It is logical. After the defeat, the Armenians re-elected Pashinyan again. Why not return Arsrun back to MO.

I thought Asrun from the Serzhikov school

[aslan balaev]

Quote: Yarasa

Quote: Yujanin

Everyone remembers how during the war the Armenian leadership deceived its citizens. Including the Armenians themselves.

So this storyteller Asrun has a new position in min. they gave the defense. Looks like the circus continues to tour)

Arsrun will be in the parliamentary commission to study the results of the sad events for 44 days. Earlier, Arsrun "destroyed" 666 enemy tanks. Now commissions cannot be dug deep. It may turn out that Armenia did not have so many ATGMs. Well, you don't have to worry about Arsrun. Arsrun is an old liar.

[alavrin]

you are so anxious about the minuses that from now on I will put only pluses to you, and you are calmer and the title of a virtual general is getting closer. And about drones with Ali - they were used there, but there won't be a photo for your favorite Lostarmur, so minus your health ...)

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Yarasa

oh and they will shower you with minus tomatoes now)))))

He gets paid for such comments, unlike you ...

[Suleiman]

Come on)) We are already used to it. We are growing by leaps and bounds.
By the way, I advise forum users from Russia to look))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfkO4z9MAE0

[DominickS]

It's still a funny figure, if you remember the confusion with air defense. Only if we add here the kamikaze drones, which heroically killed themselves against the Armenian boxes.

[tralflot1832]

The loss of 13 pieces of Bayroktar is confirmed by the Swedish Institute for Peace Problems. It monitors losses. A total of 47 pieces were lost in different points. Only in Karabakh they could do something. In other points, Bayroktar could not change the course of the battles. You filled the Karabakh with your own and Armenian blood, thousands died. on both sides. You have not mastered modern non-contact combat tactics.

[Bat]

Quote: tralflot1832

The loss of 13 pieces of Bayroktar is confirmed by the Swedish Peace Institute.

Where are the facts? In reality, everything can be viewed on the Lostarmor website. With facts and pictures. And according to their data, Azerbaijan lost 41 drones (which were shot down, which fell, in a word, did not complete the task) where does everyone get 260 drones ????

[tralflot1832]

The Swedes do not consider trifles.

[g1v2]

Easily. Here are the AN2, which the Azeri used to open the Armenian air defense systems and various reconnaissance drones and drones. Well, plus - kamikaze UAVs, which were also consumables. I think that the Armenians also recorded those kamikaze drones that hit the target in the destroyed ones. In any case, both sides give out propaganda information and you can understand the real numbers only by seeing the layout by type and brand of destroyed uavs.

[t00r]

Yes, let it be 260, whatever the child is amused ... the main thing is not to tell them that the cost of the UAV complex includes a ground control station, which is usually much more expensive than the aircraft itself, if they find out about it then there will be a full genosid.

PS and so the figure is taken out of thin air it is immediately obvious 260 and why on 263 or 267 the propagandists have a love for multiples of 10 numbers.

[Suleiman]

Quote: tralflot1832

The loss of 13 pieces of Bayroktar is confirmed by the Swedish Institute for Peace Problems. It monitors losses. A total of 47 pieces were lost in different points. Only in Karabakh they could do something. In other points, Bayroktar could not change the course of the battles. You filled the Karabakh with your own and Armenian blood, thousands died. on both sides. You have not mastered modern non-contact combat tactics.

Firstly, I wonder where the Swedes got such data and which of them sat here in Hadrut with Pegov and counted the downed Bayraktars. Secondly, you kept something silent when in the early 90s 30 thousand Azerbaijanis were exterminated, most of them civilians, that is, peaceful people, and you mentioned Karabakh drenched in blood just now. And thirdly, we did not master the modern tactics of contactless combat (all air defense was undermined by suicide bombers, who, tied with TNT, lay under the Wasps ), we are just mastering it, and imagine what will happen when we master it.

[tralflot1832]

And how many Armenians were slaughtered, killed in the most brutal way in Azerbaijan. And calm down, your President Heydar Aliyev is the second along with Lukashenko A.G. But he is smarter than you, in summer he gives Gazprom 10 billion cubic meters of gas, and in winter he receives 10 billion cubic meters of gas. to keep you warm and to fill Tanap, according to the contracts for Europe. You can calm down against Russia and Armenia too.

[Suleiman]

Quote: tralflot1832

And how many Armenians were slaughtered, killed in the most cruel way in Azerbaijan.

And how much? Let's take the facts. Provide your facts, then I will answer them. For that matter, I advise you not to delve into this topic. There are too many counterarguments about Chechnya, Circassia, Crimean Tatars, etc., etc.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Suleyman

Let's take the facts.

Dear, I personally know many wonderful people. who lived in baku in the USSR, and who were lucky enough to survive the horror. arranged by Azerbaijanis to Armenians. Jews, Iranians, Greeks and the remaining nationalities who lived in Baku since pre-revolutionary times ... My friends were lucky - they were simply thrown out into the street from their own homes (because they were Jews and Russians), and then the newly-minted Azerbaijani border guards robbed. But the Armenians were killed at least several thousand ... We know very well what the Armenians were doing in Armenia and in Karabakh.
Therefore, I say without a twinge of conscience that Azerbaijanis and Armenians are 100% worth each other in this conflict. And the atrocities they commit against each other are absolutely identical ...
And there is no need to drag Chechnya and the Crimean Tatars here. because against the background of the Azerbaijani-Armenian conflict, all repressions against these peoples look like just a childish prank ...

[ab111]

You are broadcasting someone else's opinion.
I am Russian and I lived there and was in those very years. There was a completely different attitude towards Russians and Jews than you write here. We lived in Baku until 98. I served in the Azerbaijani army, my relatives worked at Azerbaijani enterprises. Nobody tried to kick us out. In 1994, they gave me an apartment from the housing stock of the Azerbaijani army, as an officer.

[Albert1988]

Quote: ab111

You are broadcasting someone else's opinion.
I am Russian and I lived there and was in those very years. There was a completely different attitude towards Russians and Jews than you write here. We lived in Baku until 98. I served in the Azerbaijani army, my relatives worked at Azerbaijani enterprises. Nobody tried to kick us out. In 1994, they gave me an apartment from the housing stock of the Azerbaijani army, as an officer.

This is the opinion of people who were there in the early 90s, who were not lucky enough to be in the thick of it. For example, a family of our acquaintances was simply thrown out of their own homes! Just like that, the "title" came and said. that they are occupiers and all that, and now "locals" will live here. Well at least they were allowed to pick up the essentials. But the ethnic Armenians' neighbors were killed, and brutally ...
What kind of pogroms were there, when crowds of "titular" (a characteristic feature - everyone in brand new leather jackets) pounded through the streets and beat to death everyone who came across who "was of the wrong nationality" ...
People did not invent this, people witnessed this situation. The fact that you were so arranged there is very lucky for you ...

[bobwings]

You're lying.
I am a Baku Jew, I live in Israel.
I know dozens of other Jews. Nobody drove or robbed us.
Azerbaijanis have always treated us friendly and respectful, which is absolutely mutual.
And we left Baku not because of the Azerbaijanis.
By the way, if there was anti-Semitism in Baku, it was exclusively on the part of the Armenians. And I tell you this as a witness and also an expert in family history.

[Albert1988]

Quote: bobwings

You're lying.
I am a Baku Jew, I live in Israel.
I know dozens of other Jews. Nobody drove or robbed us.
Azerbaijanis have always treated us friendly and respectful, which is absolutely mutual.
And we left Baku not because of the Azerbaijanis.
By the way, if there was anti-Semitism in Baku, it was exclusively on the part of the Armenians. And I tell you this as a witness and also an expert in family history.

Well, yes, well, yes, in 91 -93 they fled from Baku, abandoning their property, when the brutalized "titular" in leather jackets with fittings, cold and, sometimes, firearms, cleaned out all "not like that", including Jews ... And now they say that there was nothing, only there is much more evidence to the contrary ... And by the way, an important point about "anti-Semitism of Armenians" - there was no anti-Semitism in Baku, it was a multinational city where mutual respect for different cultures was a fundamental principle ...

[bobwings]

Yes, there was no such thing as in Russia.
But it happened occasionally, in my memory only from the Armenian side. And my father in his area was persecuted by the Armenians in general along the national line in the 60s.
And none of the "titular" nor Russian, not Jews did not "purge". Armenians, yes, many have suffered.

[Albert1988]

Quote: bobwings

Yes, there was no such thing as in Russia.

And what happened in Russia? To overshadow the blood and bitterness that were in the Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict, unless only the height of Chechnya can ...

[bobwings]

Such as anti-Semitism in Russia ...

[Albert1988]

Quote: bobwings

Such as anti-Semitism in Russia ...

Let's clarify then - such anti-Semitism as Moscow. That's right - Brezhnev's legacy ...

[Denis812]

Baku. The capital of Azerbaijan.
You say that you, a Jew, had to flee from Baku because of anti-Semitism.
And in your words ... anti-Semitism in Baku, the capital of Azerbaijan, was EXCLUSIVELY on the part of .... Armenians.
Don't you think that this scheme is, to put it mildly, strange?
This is the same as someone will say that he had to leave Grozny, because the Chukchi got him there.

[bobwings]

I don't know what you understood, apparently you have problems with understanding what you read ... Where did I write that we, Jews, left Baku because of anti-Semitism?
There was practically no anti-Semitism in Baku, but its complete denial is a romantic fantasy. The LITTLE that was, came mainly from the Armenians.
We left for our historical homeland ...

[Denis812]

that is, there was no anti-Semitism, no one bothered you, but you decided to leave.
Well, OK.
Many left because they simply decided to leave.

[SSR]

Quote: Albert1988

Therefore, I say without a twinge of conscience that Azerbaijanis and Armenians are 100% worth each other in this conflict. And the atrocities they commit against each other are absolutely identical ...

+ I said during the conflict that they resemble two distraught neighbors of old women who send their sons to kill each other and rejoice at every death, and brag about it.
Instead of agreeing peacefully, living peacefully, trading for the benefit of their citizens, these two hags did nothing but build plans for a new war.
Now the hag, who won this conflict, stands in front of his fence and yells all over the street, what kind of "clever" she is, but about her dead sons, why grieve? The main thing is that a lock of hair has been ripped from the other hag.

[Albert1988]

Quote from S.S.R.

+ I said during the conflict that they resemble two distraught neighbors of old women who send their sons to kill each other and rejoice at every death, and brag about it.
Instead of agreeing peacefully, living peacefully, trading for the benefit of their citizens, these two hags did nothing but build plans for a new war.
Now the hag, who won this conflict, stands in front of his fence and yells all over the street, what kind of "clever" she is, but about her dead sons, why grieve? The main thing is that a lock of hair has been ripped from the other hag.

You have a very good allegory. But the reason is understandable - the complete internal inconsistency must be covered up with something. The best way is a war with neighbors, who are "swearing" and "are to blame for everything," a good half is engaged in this in the post-Soviet space ...

[Vlad1]

You liars steeper than Pegov ... What are 30 thousand ??? And don't forget to count Sumgait from Baku, where you slaughtered Armenians before the war

[FrankyStein]

Yes, it was not the tractors that played the main role there, but the Moishavian harupas.

[Cowbra]

Picture from Kassad:

And most importantly:

1. The potential of Armenia's air defense in Karabakh was estimated at 1 S-300, 6 Thors and 30 Os.

... spread all over the region. And 30 Wasps - dafiga, yes ... And Carapace - zero ...

[Albay]

Smeared all over the region?
Look at the size of the area.
This is a picture not from the cassad, but from a docfilm gla, the commander of the Azerbaijani Air Force talks about how they broke through the air defense of Armenia and what methods were used.
https://youtu.be/3yIR-fKpgaM

[loki565]

According to data from open sources, at the time of the start of hostilities, the air defense system in Nagorno-Karabakh included 24 Osa-AK (M) air defense systems, 6 Tor-M2KM air defense systems, one S-300PS division, 2 Krug air defense battalions, 3 divisions of the "Kub" air defense missile system and one division of the C-125 air defense missile system.

I wonder what these open sources are and who they belong to)))

[Bat]

Quote: loki565

I wonder what these open sources are and who they belong to

did you want to "not be there"? Armenian troops do not fight, but only some Karabakh troops without air defense fighting against Azerbaijan?

Here are the coordinates of those whom you think they are not there.
https://lostarmour.info/karabakh/

[loki565]

I wonder what these open sources are and who they belong to

did you want to "not be there"? Armenian troops do not fight, but only some Karabakh troops without air defense fighting against Azerbaijan?
Here are the coordinates of those whom you think they are not there.

A very logical answer, although they could have written even better, like

a brick floats down the river, wooden like glass

)))

[Bat]

Quote: loki565

A very logical answer, although they could have written even better, like

You plus

[Cowbra]

Quote: Yarasa

Here are the coordinates of those whom you think they are not there.
https://lostarmour.info/karabakh/

3 wasps - and that's it ... Well, well. Have you thought for a long time?

[Bat]

Quote: Cowbra

3 wasps - and that's it ... Well, well. Have you thought for a long time?

the Armenians or Azerbaijan?

[Cowbra]

On that link - Armenian. There is generally some kind of garbage - there is less Armenian equipment than Azerbaijani ... I say - no source in this case.

[Bat]

Quote: Cowbra

On that link - Armenian. There is generally some kind of garbage - there is less Armenian equipment than Azerbaijani ... I say - no source in this case.

Tell me what and I will tell you in detail. This site is very truthful. Many people refer to them.

[Cowbra]

You were asked about the sources, and you threw it to the site, where they post exactly the killed armor. They are not lying, but there is how. There is time - they took a picture. In the Donbass, all the equipment has been photographed for a long time - there are a lot of people, there is plenty of time. And then - do you think it was time for the Armenians to take a picture? And the Azerbaijanis only drive propaganda, on this site - geolocation data is needed so that you can check it with GoogleMaps. and not a beautiful photo, it is not known where the canned food is

[Vissarion Golubov]

If you remove the Torah, you would get a good Museum of Soviet Air Defense Weapons.

[Two]

Forgot to mention two brigades with slingshots and a company with blowpipes for lethal spitting on drone optics.

[Albay]

I wonder what these open sources are and who they belong to)))

This is a map and data from the commander of the Air Defense Forces of Azerbaijan, he showed and talked about what happened before the war and how the air defense of Armenia broke through in this documentary.
https://youtu.be/3yIR-fKpgaM
And the author of the news faked a completely different video and gave only one quote from the commander and that one was distorted))

[Boa kaa]

It is sad, of course ... And the air defense fighter aircraft of the Armenians, that ... was absent as a class? And the stations of the Far Air Situation ... too? Why did it all come down to firing radars of air defense systems?
What the hell is this system, if everything is thrown off on object air defense?
(Therefore, they lost that they ate deliciously, slept sweetly ... (c))

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

And what about the Armenian air defense fighter aircraft that ... was absent as a class? And the station for the Far Air Situation ... too?

So Armenia did not officially fight ... the NRK army fought ... where did they get their fighters ?!

[Bat]

Quote: Stirbjorn

So Armenia did not officially fight ... the NRK army fought ... where did they get their fighters ?!

and whose su25 was shot down?) and whose Elbrus? What kind of NCR?) Oh where do you come from sofa experts?)

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: Yarasa

and whose su25 was shot down?)

Armenian Air Force ?! Are you out of your mind ?! Armenia did not officially fight with Azerbaijan, otherwise not only Karabakh would have been bombed

[Bat]

Quote: Stirbjorn

Armenian Air Force ?! Are you out of your mind ?! Armenia did not officially fight with Azerbaijan, otherwise not only Karabakh would have been bombed

oooh how everything started. The Armenian regular army had 10 deserters. Armenians recognize and the user does not recognize the top-boss)))))))))))))))))

[Two]

I agree with desertion, all flights from there were full of guys, in Sochi the number of "relatives from the Motherland" increased sharply. In what numbers - I can not judge. To the question - "why aren't you fighting?"

[Jager]

Not only in Sochi. After those events, the number of cars with Armenian numbers and the number of Armenian stalls increased dramatically even hundreds of kilometers from Armenia, in my city)
Those who are smarter and more dodgy immediately reeled up their fishing rods from their "great ancient homeland."

[Karos]

Officially, yes, Armenia could not declare war, since in this case, Azerbaijan had the right to enter Yerevan and the CSTO would not have had nothing to do. Azerbaijan did not announce it because then it would have to fight the CSTO army.
But in fact, about 4 Armenian soldiers were buried near Yerevan.
In fact, more than 300 units of military equipment were destroyed, the question is where did the separatists get them, who didn’t sell the equipment to them, as it contradicts world laws. Even not every country has the S-300, but the 1st division was destroyed ... the question is where did it come from .... Where did the separatists get Iskander whom they shot at? .... Where did Elbrus and Tochka U come from?
And of course, if Armenia did not take part, why then was the capitulation signed by the Prime Minister of Armenia Pashinyan? And he himself said if he had not signed, then 25 soldiers of the Armed Forces of Armenia ended up in the cauldron?

[Vissarion Golubov]

Yes, unofficially, too, did not really fight. I remember how on the square in Yerevan, a woman yelled at the correspondent of our TV that Russia “threw them” (did not get involved in the war). Dozens of men of military age stood tightly next to her.

[Albay]

So Armenia did not officially fight ... the NRK army fought ... where did they get their fighters ?!

And where did they get the S-300, Tor m-2 and other complexes then?))
All of you here are trying to deceive yourself and pretend that you do not understand that the units in Karabakh were part of the Armenian army. 75 percent of the personnel were recruited from Armenia, equipment, weapons were all the nomenclature of the armed forces of Armenia.

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: Albay

All of you here are trying to deceive yourself and pretend that you do not understand that the units in Karabakh were part of the Armenian army.

Listen, dear, like the others - I wrote that the Armenian army did not officially participate in the conflict. Modern fighters of the Su-30 type could not be used in any way (the answer to the very first post of Udav), because this is, in fact, a declaration of war. It was possible to use only Soviet weapons, or modern cheap samples, of the level of partisan warfare. You don’t need to attribute to me what I didn’t say. Just read the posts carefully

[Albay]

Listen, dear, like the rest - I wrote that the Armenian army did not officially participate in the conflict

Listen to this dear. Armenia was officially involved or not. It doesn’t matter at all. It didn’t matter. All reports were given by the mines of defense of Armenia, military units from Armenia participated, shelling of the cities of Azerbaijan came from the territory of Armenia and they were destroyed on the spot.
Everything that was in the nomenclature of the Armenian army was used in Karabakh. The aircraft you indicated were not used due to the name of the representatives of the Armenian army.
1.the pilots did not fully master the plane
2. rockets were not purchased for it.

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: Albay

Everything that was in the nomenclature of the Armenian army was used in Karabakh. The aircraft you indicated were not used due to the name of the representatives of the Armenian army.
1.the pilots did not fully master the plane
2. rockets were not purchased for it.

First of all, some kind of nonsense. For the year they did not master it and they forgot to buy the missiles. Although there are still bombs, a cannon and electronic warfare equipment. And, of course, the Azerbaijani command was aware of this, therefore, contrary to all military science, they did not bomb the Armenian Air Force bases, de facto, so to speak. There, by the way, in addition to the Su-30, there were a dozen Su-25s.

[Albay]

By the way, in addition to the Su-30, there were a dozen and a half Su-25

So 5 units were knocked down

[rocket757]

What and how was it really there, the question?
And so, common truths are just passive defense, with not the right organization and tactics, this is a direct path to the loss of control over the airspace !!! Especially when the enemy is better prepared, the tactics of using the means of attack are more thoughtful, and even the means of attack are in abundance!
Which was demonstrated, in general ... judging by the results.

[VyacheSeymour]

And so, common truths are just passive defense, with not the right organization and tactics, this is a direct path to the loss of control over the airspace !!! Especially when the enemy is better prepared, the tactics of using the means of attack are more thoughtful, and even the means of attack are in abundance!
Which was demonstrated, in general ... judging by the results.

In Baku, Von Clausewitz was apparently wiped out.
By memory :
"Make your opponent believe that you are weaker" ...

That is what has been done for 26 years ... - that the Armenians, the world centers of strategic research, believed.

"Do not fight the same enemy for a very long time, otherwise he will get used to your tactics."

All the aggravations on the line of contact taught the Armenians that the day is different, and after the victorious reports about the return of 10 hectares, everything will be over.
Azerbaijan adjusted itself to the fact that each exacerbation was accompanied by problems with communication, provision, equipment, control, camouflage, etc. among the Armenians. Vehicles from the same locations, during the same
time, the same routes occupied the same positions ... and everything in reverse order after the end of the exacerbation.

"The defense is stronger than the offensive, but its weakness is in attempts to prevent the enemy from acting instead of acting on his own."

Azerbaijan shouted loudest about the fact that the Armenians, dragging out the negotiations, use the gained time to build the most powerful new lines of defense ... and the Armenians believed that in 26 years they had built the impregnable "Ohanyan Line" ...
The Mongols walked around the Chinese wall along the coast ...
The Germans bypassed the forts of Mozhino and stirred them up one by one ...
Union, waiting for the frost to shackle lakes and swamps
Karelia, bypassing the fortified regions, reset the Mannerheim line ...
The natural, most fortified Nagorno-Karabakh part was banally bypassed from the south ...

"Most of the intelligence is false."

All and sundry in Azerbaijan (with the exception of officials) talked about the blitzkrieg for two weeks ... The Armenians proudly boasted that they had thwarted it, and waited for the last dying throw of the exhausted Azerbaijani units ... , Air defense, suitable reserves, fortified areas, rear infrastructures, management, etc. The Armenians waited (and did not wait) for a blow to the center, with the dissection of Karabakh and the capture of Stepanakert, because only in this direction the blitzkrieg doctrine could work ... But the losses would have been outrageous.

"Disperse the forces of opponents and strike in the heart"

Simulating finding a place for the decisive
strike, pinned down the main forces of the defenders, destroyed on the march the reserves rushing around the positional areas ... And with the fresh forces of the 3rd Corps that entered the hostilities, he organized a breakthrough along the border with Iran, turning a two hundred kilometer, well-fortified defense line into more than four hundred kilometers, it is not clear what. .. By spetsnaz forces inflicting incoherent
himself, scattered strikes on Kubatly, then on Lachin, then on the Red Bazaar, then Hadrut, then on the Lachin road, then on Dzhabrail carried a blow tens of kilometers deep into the defense - on Shusha, in the heart of Karabakh.
In a word, Baku has a comprehensive approach to the war:
A strong economy, a clean internal political space, military construction, the purchase of equipment, a media front, guaranteed non-interference of hegemons, support of allies, a new patriotic generation ... This is all that Armenia did not do.
Ps.
If the Armenians had no Armor, it would have been echeloned air defense or not ... the result would have been the same.
A stronger enemy will sooner or later endure any air defense.

"Strategic miscalculations cannot be corrected by any tactical victories" ... - Von Clausewitz.

[rocket757]

What's the difference now, why and how .... there are the same self-appointed people, who are waiting for everything ahead and it is unlikely that it will be funny. Their affairs, now on their own, on their own.
About Karabakh itself and its inhabitants ... even if our people made a decision, it was too late and unreasonable.

[VyacheSeymour]

Ukraine is in a more advantageous position - at least they have decided who to be with.
Armenia still does not know what dress to wear and to whom to sell its innocence, despite the fact that there is no choice ... - many want, but not on her, Armenia's terms.
Although there is always a choice - to try to get along with your neighbors, for example.

[rocket757]

Everyone should have their own head on their shoulders ...
They themselves chose the title one, so they got it, what they chose and, apparently, are not going to change.

[VyacheSeymour]

Delusional ideas do not help to live well, but they help individual societies to survive ...

[rocket757]

Regularity, delusional ideas, as a rule, are given out by some, but to feel the consequences, they leave it to others, to everyone else who followed them or were forced to settle in the tail.
What, elite, distributor activists suffered a lot ??? Schaz z z, they pile up their "earned" greens where necessary and over time will despair, forcing them to swarm about creating guano, all the rest, not from the smart ones.

[VyacheSeymour]

No need to say - to the point ... Only the rogue after the revolutions are waiting for the manna from heaven even now ...

[Rome]

The army of NK, in principle, could not develop on parity terms with the army of Azerbaijan, since this is not a state!
Therefore, the chances of success were based on the stupidity and cowardice of the Azerbaijani army, and they turned out to be smart and courageous. Either the intervention of the Armenian army could have brought victory, but a full-fledged intervention, and not as it was.
Plans for active actions were to be made in Yerevan, and Yerevan, in fact, merged from the protection of NK.
A detour from the south was supposed to turn into an oncoming tank battle. The command post for the control of the UAV was to be attacked by the OTR, or aviation.
If the position of Yerevan clearly showed that the war with NK is a guaranteed war with Armenia and the Armenian army fulfills its plans to defend NK, then perhaps there would not have been a war.

[Albay]

If the Armenians had no Armor, it would have been echeloned air defense or not ... the result would have been the same.
A stronger enemy will sooner or later endure any air defense.

"Strategic miscalculations cannot be corrected by any tactical victories" ... - Von Clausewitz.

For the entire time of my presence at this forum, and this is about 11 years, for the first time I see a competent analysis and conclusions of a person coming from aspects of a war case, drawing conclusions not because of political views, not because I like these or like these, but specifically in the case .I am ready to subscribe to every sentence of your analysis.
I have not met your comments before.

[Albert1988]

Quote: rocket757

And so, common truths are just passive defense, with not the right organization and tactics, this is a direct path to the loss of control over the airspace !!! Especially when the enemy is better prepared, the tactics of using the means of attack are more thoughtful, and even the means of attack are in abundance!
Which was demonstrated, in general ... judging by the results.

The most obvious thing is a) the complete unpreparedness of Armenia for the conflict against the background of very clear and alarming calls from Azerbaijan and Turkey, b) the "congenial" Pashinyan, licking the fifth point of the Franco-Amers, who do not care about him, and actively bringing his pan-heads out onto the streets under the code name "Rossiyaokkupantvonizarmeniya" ... And then it's just a matter of technology ...

[rocket757]

Likely to remind about the failed "work" of our contractors with various national elites from the former, too / once again do not want to ... it is, such as it is.
Only the completely brainless do not talk about it.
The people of Karabakh itself will not be remembered once again, but there was a clear vector for cooperation with Russia, as in other similar regions, BUT, there will be fewer, fewer, and ...
Politics is such a murky business, to see something there from the outside, from the couch, is not realistic.

[Denis812]

Excuse me, what kind of "ours"?
If you are talking about the Russian Federation, then you probably remember that the Russian Federation just proposed to transfer part of the regions to Azerbaijan.
And the Russian Federation has never recognized the occupation of Karabakh by Armenia.
Therefore, by the way, the Russian Federation did not fit in.
And that is why, by the way, Azerbaijan started the war.

[Albay]

Excuse me, what kind of "ours"?
If you are talking about the Russian Federation, then you probably remember that the Russian Federation just proposed to transfer part of the regions to Azerbaijan.
And the Russian Federation has never recognized the occupation of Karabakh by Armenia.
Therefore, by the way, the Russian Federation did not fit in.
And that is why, by the way, Azerbaijan started the war

Denis is a policy. The OSCE was in favor of the transfer of some regions, but in return essentially wanted to legitimize Nagorno-Karabakh as an independent state. The Russian Federation did not recognize but also held back Azerbaijan as best it could. During the war, it continuously helped Armenia with weapons and specialists, and the Armenians did it. was due to several factors in the complex, first of all, the firm position of Turkey.

[Denis812]

Politics, of course.
You talk as if politics is something extremely bad. Which is not true.
The Armenians were repeatedly told before this very war - GIVE Karabakh or part of its regions. After all, what they agreed to in the end was what the Russian Federation proposed to Armenia many years ago.
The Armenians resisted, but did not prepare for the war - so they got it in the teeth.
And rightly so.

The Russian Federation did not intervene in the situation until the war almost reached the territory of Armenia. And she did the right thing - because there was NO reason to interfere.
And then, if you explain to a fool 10 times what needs to be done, but he does not, and then rakes for it - well, great. Let the fool teach life.
If Armenia recognized Karabakh, and even the Russian Federation would recognize, then no Azerbaijan would have climbed into NK.
Because I would have known that the reaction of the Russian Federation would have been completely different.

The Armenian leadership has completely lost.

[Albay]

talk like politics is something extremely bad

I stated a fact and I do not understand why you decided that I meant that this is bad?

The Armenians were repeatedly told before this very war - GIVE Karabakh or part of its regions.

Not quite so. Armenians were all offered to give 5 out of 7 regions around Nagorno-Karabakh in exchange for the practical separation of Nagorno-Karabakh from Azerbaijan.

The Russian Federation did not intervene in the situation until the war almost reached the territory of Armenia.

You are wrong, the Russian Federation intervened when the fall of Khankendi (Stepanakert) and the final defeat of the Armenian forces remaining in Karabakh became inevitable.
Azerbaijan from the first day, represented by the President, declared that it was ready to stop at any time as soon as Armenia agreed to the withdrawal of troops from the occupied territories and presented the withdrawal schedule. Armenia did this on November 9, the day of the liberation of the city of Shusha. Earlier, they would agree, then the war would have ended earlier. ...

[Denis812]

The Russian Federation intervened when the war began to threaten to move to the territory of Armenia, which would have already fallen under the CSTO agreement.
They intervened in advance - they did it right.
And the Armenians pissed away the territory ineptly.
Share.

[Albay]

with the wrong organization and tactics, this is a direct path to the loss of control over the airspace

I agree, but the air defense of Armenia is united with the air defense of Russia, that is, the control is joint, whether there is a shortage of specialists, plus Iran helped.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

I agree, but the air defense of Armenia is united with the air defense of Russia, that is, the control is joint, whether there is a deficit in the specialists.

Do you want me to tell you what this association is? It consists of exactly one thing - if Russia detects a violation of the airspace, an air attack on the territory of Armenia - it transfers these data to the Armenian side. No specialists from Russia work in the Armenian air defense system and the Armenian air defense officers do not obey Russian officers ... As for the air defense of Karabakh, Russia has nothing to do with it, Russia officially considered Karabakh to be the territory of Azerbaijan for all 30 years. And against the background of the current Armenian government and its rhetoric, Russia deliberately did not fit in with Armenia, even diplomatically ...

[Albay]

It consists of exactly one thing - if Russia detects a violation of the airspace, an air attack on the territory of Armenia - it transfers these data to the Armenian side.

I do not agree.
1To train specialists in Russia.
2.Russian specialists helped organize air defense.
3. There were crews with Russian personnel.
4. Permanent joint air defense exercises
5. Complexes and weapons were transferred free of charge.
6.I didn’t say that Armenian pvoshniki
obey the Russian it is your guesses.
Best regards

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

1To train specialists in Russia.

So what? The Americans also trained Georgian "specialists", which in the end did not prevent them from scattering together 08.08.08 ...

Quote: Albay

Russian specialists helped organize air defense.

The air defense of Armenia, not the air defense of Karabakh, and the fact that they once helped is one thing, but what the Armenians did later is another, did it somehow turn out that 80% of BUKs corny need repair due to critical breakdowns?

Quote: Albay

.There were crews with Russian personnel.

Gle? In Kaarabach? In the Armenian army? Don’t lie, they weren’t there, there are only at the Gyumri base, but this is a Russian base with professional Russian military personnel.

Quote: Albay

Permanent joint air defense exercises

Permanent how often? once every 5 years? And what are they? If in working out the exchange of information, then this is a very specific area ...

Quote: Albay

I did not say that the Armenian pvoshniki obey the Russian ones, this is your guess.

It doesn't matter - here a very large part of the citizens are firmly convinced that the Armenian air defense is directly part of the Russian air defense. In reality, Russia is helping Armenia to establish air defense, but the curvature of the Armenians and their unwillingness to do anything does not cancel, alas.

[Albay]

The Karabakh air defense system does not exist and did not exist separately, as well as the army, this is a delusion.
Everything was subordinate to the general staff of Armenia.
2. I never lie or mine)) On the network, I personally saw a video from a perescope where an officer from the base in Gyumri talked about the participation of his battalion.
3. It is not important to you, but it is important to me because you are writing an answer to me and so it turns out that you object to what I have said.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

The Karabakh air defense system does not exist and did not exist separately, as well as the army, this is a delusion.
Everything was subordinate to the general staff of Armenia.

This is an open secret that an army like Karabakh was completely subordinated to the Armenian army, the question is in material and technical support. which the army of Karabakh was much worse.

Quote: Albay

I never lie or mine)) On the network, I personally saw a video from a perescope where an officer from the base in Gyumri talked about the participation of his battalion.

Where are the divisions involved? In battles with Azerbaijan? This is a lie of the highest standard! In the exercises, yes - they could participate. But they did not participate demonstratively in the current conflict, and in all the previous ones - because of the official position of Russia.

Quote: Albay

This is not important to you, but it is important to me because you are writing an answer to me and it turns out as if you object to what I have said.

I understood you, I apologize for the misunderstanding) It was just a clarification of the situation)

[Albay]

This is an open secret that an army like Karabakh was completely subordinated to the Armenian army, the question is in material and technical support. which the army of Karabakh was much worse.

Dear interlocutor, if this is an open secret, then why do you repeat the opposite over and over again, that is, about the fact that the Karabakh army did or didn’t? if something could not equip a unit in Armenia itself, then in Karabakh all units were equipped to the maximum.

Where are the divisions involved? In battles with Azerbaijan? This is a lie of the highest standard! In the exercises, yes - they could participate. But they did not participate demonstratively in the current conflict, and in all the previous ones - because of the official position of Russia.

No need to accuse me of lying. This is not me saying, but the Russian officer said. I ask you to address all the claims to the officers of the Russian army. I’ll find a video for you.

I understand you, I apologize for the misunderstanding) It was just a clarification of the situation)

Accepted)))

[Vlad1]

Complete nonsense .. Did the Russian officers tell you this personally? Nobody saw them in the Karabakh army

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

Dear interlocutor, if this is an open secret, then why do you repeat the opposite over and over again, that is, about the fact that the Karabakh army did or didn’t? if something could not equip a unit in Armenia itself, then in Karabakh all units were equipped to the maximum.

We call the army of Karabakh such - because it is, after all, a separate large structure, with its own command, even if it is subordinate to the Armenian General Staff.
As for their equipment - do not attribute what does not exist - the army of Armenia itself is often equipped with more modern systems, which it tried to urgently throw in the Kaarabs when it smelled of fried. In Karabakh, perhaps the fighters were more motivated and with no combat experience.

Quote: Albay

No need to accuse me of lying. This is not me saying, but the Russian officer said. I ask you to address all the claims to the officers of the Russian army. I’ll find a video for you.

I do not accuse you - I accuse those who said this, posing as an officer of the Russian army. I saw this "video" - forget about it, this is the purest fake. The sucker who is passed off as a "Russian officer" is just a shame, and how he behaves, and what formulations he gives ... To believe in this is not to respect yourself.

[Albay]

Where are the divisions involved? In battles with Azerbaijan? This is a lie of the highest standard

Here is a video confession
https://youtu.be/fl2BT9K2Kk4

[Jager]

I can remove the same "confession") Our specialists were not involved in the conflict.

About "equipping Armenia with Russian weapons" is generally ridiculous, most of Azerbaijan's weapons are also Russian / Soviet.

[Albay]

About "equipping Armenia with Russian weapons" is generally ridiculous, most of Azerbaijan's weapons are also Russian / Soviet

There is a big difference, Azerbaijan buys weapons at world prices, while Armenia was supplied and is being supplied mostly free of charge.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

Here is a video confession
https://youtu.be/fl2BT9K2Kk4

Complete bullshit, complete! Dear Alibek! Urgently work on your critical thinking, or such fakeodels, "kastusi", will put noodles on your ears ... There is also a person calling himself an "officer" carries such a blizzard ... You at least take a closer look at the "certificate" that he showed ... It's a Spanish shame! printed on a printer some piece of paper without any information ... This guy is not something that is not "starley" - he does not pull on a private ... Strategic Missile Forces, your cavalry

[Albay]

Complete bullshit, complete! Dear Alibek!

Dear I do not know for me pulls on the starley, and bullshit or not it is already on his conscience.

Practice critical thinking urgently

Dear Albert believe me with critical thinking more than good)

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

Dear I do not know for me pulls on the starley, and bullshit or not it is already on his conscience.

By age, he can and pulls a starley, but by that. what he says - absolutely not ...

Quote: Albay

, and bullshit or not it is already on his conscience.

But to believe the bullshit that this student mowing like a military man carries is our choice!

Quote: Albay

Dear Albert believe me with critical thinking more than good)

Then why don't you filter out such fake videos?

[Albay]

age he can and pulls on the starley, that's why. what he says - absolutely not

I have seen much dumber older ones, this one is a head compared to them))

to believe the bullshit that this student, mowing like a military man, carries - our choice!

Unlike you, I do not consider this a bullshit, if I didn’t think it would, at least out of respect for you and your time. Everyone has their own opinion.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

I have seen much dumber older ones, this one is a head compared to them))

It's not about stupidity, the more stupid to Iskander will not be allowed. the fact is that he speaks not as a military man, but as a simple civilian who does not even try to mow down under the military, except for a dull cap and a cheap T-shirt, which can be bought at every corner.

Quote: Albay

Unlike you, I do not consider this a bullshit, if I didn’t think it would, at least out of respect for you and your time. Everyone has their own opinion.

That's why I'm talking about the lack of critical thinking in this area. because if the officers want to make such a confession, they make it anonymously, because they understand perfectly well what they will do to them later. Second, the military speech and demeanor are very definite, well noticeable, but here it is clear that he is just an ordinary citizen.
An opinion is good, but if an opinion is built on the basis of "I like it so much, I see it this way," then there is not much to discuss.

[Albay]

so, commonplace truths are just passive defense, with the wrong organization and tactics, this is a direct path to the loss of control over the airspace

In principle, I agree, but this is interconnected.
Well, the enemy could not actively defend and make movements. Look at the map, there are two or three main roads and several roads. All movements were controlled by the Azerbaijani Air Force and were destroyed on the march. How did they need to actively defend themselves?

[rocket757]

I express the provisions, principles, general plan!
On the spot, at a specific theater of operations, general principles are used to develop specific plans, tactics, with reference to local conditions, the situation, and other things ...

[Albay]

On the spot, at a specific theater of operations, general principles are used to develop specific plans, tactics, with reference to local conditions, the situation, and other things ...

Again, the question arises, how would this be possible?
I gave you the initial, that there are only a few roads and everything that moves on them under fire. How will you actively defend yourself, manage the reserves of equipment? I will give an example, on October 7, when the Armenian side tried to cut off the advancing units of the Azerbaijani army in Jabrayil, the Stepanakert Tank Regiment was destroyed on the march, the entire column was raskherachen.After that, no one tried to maneuver such forces.

[rocket757]

Not an infantry and never was ...
What are the characteristics of the definition of the general plan? They are applicable to all types of troops ...
I could evaluate the actions of the air defense, but, after all, I was not there, but what everyone is talking about is very conditional, of doubtful reliability ...
One thing is clear, the Armenian side was unable to protect its troops from the enemy's air attack ...
Let specialists who know the details of that event draw specific conclusions ...
The rest give out their versions, guess, fantasize ... nothing more.

[Albay]

One thing is clear, the Armenian side was unable to protect its troops from the enemy's air attack.

Definitely, therefore, I think that it is meaningless to talk about active defense by the Armenian army. In the process, they did not have a chance to do so based on the operational situation. It can be concluded that they were forced to passively defend by the Azerbaijani army.

[rocket757]

Perhaps there are more than one reasons ...
And the way it is seen from the outside ... very bad!

[Stirbjorn]

This was achieved by launching An-2 planes filled with explosives into the affected area, the pilots of which jumped out with a parachute.

It is unclear why it was necessary to stuff the planes with explosives, if they were uncontrollable ... the pilots obviously ejected on their territory, and the Armenians shot down the planes in the air, opening their air defense

[tralflot1832]

If you didn't shoot down AN 2, you can drop it on a military object.

[Stirbjorn]

how, if the pilot is ejected in his territory?

[tralflot1832]

They were radio-controlled, the pilot only took off. The equipment was cheaper to control.

[Karos]

They were manageable but in a primitive form. They could not be lifted and planted on their own, but they could be directed to the target. If there were no explosives, the separatists could ignore them. But knowing that there were explosives and it would reach its goal, they had to shoot them down.

[Albay]

It is unclear why it was necessary to stuff the planes with explosives, if they were uncontrollable ... the pilots obviously ejected on their territory, and the Armenians shot down the planes in the air, opening their air defense

The fact is that apparently the author where he heard the ringing and does not know where he is))) He did not watch the video from the interview and probably does not know the Azerbaijani language, so he writes gag. The video displayed by him has nothing to do with the text, in the video about the actions of the ground forces. video where the commander talks in detail about the stages of the enemy's air defense breakthrough.
https://youtu.be/3yIR-fKpgaM
He reports that a plan was developed and a set of measures was taken to break through the enemy's echeloned defense.
1.To force the enemy to turn on all radars and identify them from the first minutes, the Air Force simulated massive air attacks without entering the affected area
2. Realizing that sooner or later the enemy will reveal the plan, at the same time AN-12 unmanned aircraft belonging to the Border Troops were sent to the enemy's engagement zone.
THEY WERE CONTROLLED, that is, the route was previously entered into the program.
3. Realizing that after the enemy shot down one or two of these planes, he would understand the idea, these planes were loaded with bombs and explosives in case the enemy did not shoot them down and aimed at the enemy's military targets and as a kamikaze drone would be used.
4. One of the goals was to force the enemy to use modern and expensive missiles from the tor m -2 complex.

[YOUR]

All are easy to operate with the amount of destroyed equipment. So

2 divisions of the Krug air defense missile system, 3 divisions of the Cube air defense missile system

The Cube division is at least three batteries, each battery consists of a self-propelled reconnaissance and targeting unit, four self-propelled launchers. It seems that the destruction of one launcher is issued for the destruction of an entire division.

[DmSol]

With the alleged s-300, the same nonsense. The 5P85S launcher and the old 36D6 radar were destroyed. And there was no guidance radar and illumination at this position at all. It seems that at the time of hostilities, this position was partially abandoned altogether. But a harop flew over it and the video was edited on the Internet and now they are shouting hurray.

[Albert1988]

Quote: DmSol

With the alleged s-300, the same nonsense. The 5P85S launcher and the old 36D6 radar were destroyed. And there was no guidance radar and illumination at this position at all. It seems that at the time of hostilities, this position was partially abandoned altogether. But a harop flew over it and the video was edited on the Internet and now they are shouting hurray.

The question is whether this S-300 was in working order at all, otherwise it could be like with their BUK - 80% are simply faulty and require repair ...

[VyacheSeymour]

It seems that at the time of hostilities, this position was partially abandoned altogether.

Curly, you see, they lived -C300 to scatter ...

And there was no guidance radar and illumination at this position at all

Did you manage to survey the entire position?

[Albert1988]

Quote: VyacheSeymour

Curly, you see, they lived -C300 to scatter ...

Why should they be scattered about? The old legacy of the USSR is used in Armenia according to the principle "what we have, we do not keep, having lost it on Russia, we dump it" ...

[ab111]

Under the USSR, there was no S-300 in Armenia and Azerbaijan

[Albert1988]

Quote: ab111

Under the USSR, there was no S-300 in Armenia and Azerbaijan

Where did you get this infa from? In any case, it did not appear there yesterday and clearly was not its last modification.

[ab111]

What do you mean "from where"?
From there! namely - from the 19 th Air Defense OA of the USSR

[YOUR]

There were, like in Azerbaijan, an over-the-horizon early warning radar type 5N79 "Daryal"

[VyacheSeymour]

All are easy to operate with the amount of destroyed equipment. So
2 divisions of the Krug air defense missile system, 3 divisions of the Cube air defense missile system

The Cube division is at least three batteries, each battery consists of a self-propelled reconnaissance and targeting unit, four self-propelled launchers. It seems that the destruction of one launcher is issued for the destruction of an entire division.

Not at all - in the videos published by Azerbaijan, the destruction of several 2P25 launchers at positions was shown and, in my memory, at least one 1S91 SURN (I hardly saw all the video clips), which definitely leads to the destruction of the entire battery.
In addition, by entering the query "War booty park in Baku" you will be able to see intact: Reconnaissance and Aiming Control Station 1S91 and launcher 2P25. They can also be seen at the parade in Baku after the end of hostilities. So, the Armenians lost two batteries unambiguously ...
In addition (and the "Cuban" theme is dear to me) I can say that the destruction of even a launcher with missiles is very often fatal for the SURN - three powder bombs under 200 kilos each, three main engines, three ballons under 300 atmospheres of compressed air, three warheads in 54 kg with a spread of striking
elements at 2000 m / s ... It will explode so that few will not seem to anyone, especially the SURN with its calon of 6 meters and a distance to the launch no more than 500 tons of meters, and this is in the field in line of sight ... - in the mountains it is still more difficult ... There is an angle at which the communication and orientation system of the SSVO is able to work, or it is necessary to use a cable connection, which leads to a loss of mobility ...
In addition, the complex is by today's standards an old man, although with proper care of blood he can drink to many, but its radiation in the dc-range is so powerful (in the dark, a glowing eagle can appear from and onionization of the air) that it is not a problem to detect it ... Add work here magnetrons
Mutual orientation, constant operation of at least 7 P123 radio stations ... The picture for this complex, and even more so for those like it, 2K11 Circle is sad. They are detected and tracked at a time. The Azerbaijani Kolchuga Passive Intelligence Stations are behind the eyes, but they are not the most advanced of those available in Baku.

After opening the positions of the Armenian air defense, a blow was struck with the use of the entire available arsenal of weapons, which made it possible to destroy up to 60% of the anti-aircraft systems.

I have always said and always repeat that the glossy cover of the magazine reflects only a small part of its contents - two destroyed-captured combat units are factored, why cannot one more battery be destroyed by massive strikes?
The same for the Circle and C125 - there is a video of the destruction of the Reconnaissance Station for reference. There is a video where the Launcher Circles are standing with artillery pieces with missiles raised to the zenith, and these videos were filmed after the end of hostilities and the withdrawal of Armenian army units from Karabakh ... - how did it happen that the missile launchers were not needed and were abandoned? There is only one answer - no one needs them without control stations.
So, I am personally inclined to believe the Azerbaijani version than the Armenian one - for it is more material.

[Albert1988]

Quote: VyacheSeymour

how did the missile launchers turn out to be unnecessary and abandoned? There is only one answer - no one needs them without control stations.

What do you think is an option - just not workable? And as an option - just thrown by the calculations draped with fear?

[VyacheSeymour]

What do you think is an option - just not workable? And as an option - just thrown by the calculations draped with fear?

Sorry, but the video from the Armenian part of Karabakh, the video also shows Russian peacekeepers and Armenian soldiers. If the videos were Azerbaijani, I could agree with you.

[Albert1988]

Quote: VyacheSeymour

Sorry, but the video from the Armenian part of Karabakh, the video also shows Russian peacekeepers and Armenian soldiers. If the videos were Azerbaijani, I could agree with you.

And what difference does that make? A huge number of Armenians from the army after the start of the DB simply deserted! I saw 10-15 times more Armenian license plates on the roads during the events in the Moscow region than on ordinary days! Can you imagine what happened in Sochi? The problem is that the proud mountain eagles (or rams), after the start of serious DBs, simply threw everything they could and whistled to hell ...

[VyacheSeymour]

The problem is that the proud mountain eagles (or rams), after the start of serious DBs, simply threw everything they could and whistled to hell ...

And it somehow doesn’t matter the loss of weapons - since it’s not counted in battle?

[Albert1988]

Quote: VyacheSeymour

And it somehow doesn’t matter the loss of weapons - since it’s not counted in battle?

From the point of view of a net account - of course not. but in my humble personal opinion - the loss of weapons outside of combat is much worse than the loss of them in combat, because this is a sure indicator of either the state of the materiel, or the morale of the fighters, or both ...

[VyacheSeymour]

The consistency of both.

[Albert1988]

Quote: VyacheSeymour

The consistency of both.

In this case, pardon the pun, there was a "systemic lack of system" - the Armenian army failed as a system, the Armenian weapons systems turned out to be systematically faulty ...

[VyacheSeymour]

The Armenian itself failed
system: - "We, the most invincible and we are important for everyone so much that we will not even have to fight - all will fall on the bones instead of us!"

[Albert1988]

Quote: VyacheSeymour

The Armenian itself failed
system: - "We, the most invincible and we are important for everyone so much that we will not even have to fight - all will fall on the bones instead of us!"

Here! Not in the eyebrow, but in the eye! Their whole point is that we are such navels of the Earth, America will fit in for us, Russia will fight for us ... It is worth noting that under Pashinyan, this position only strengthened ... But the collision with harsh reality naturally could not stand ...

[Jager]

Absolutely agree...

[Albert1988]

Quote: YOUR

The Cube division is at least three batteries, each battery consists of a self-propelled reconnaissance and targeting unit, four self-propelled launchers. It seems that the destruction of one launcher is issued for the destruction of an entire division.

In the performance of the Armenians, the "division" could well provide a very conditionally working reconnaissance-guidance vehicle and one or two launchers.
What do you want - according to the statements of some, now former, Armenian generals out of 6 BUK installations, 5 were in disrepair at the beginning of the conflict !!! And only after the start of the database, they began to coordinate the repair of this equipment by specialists from Russia, of course, no specialists came to them ... It is possible that the same situation was with the rest of their air defense systems.

[YOUR]

The representative of Azerbaijan reported.

[Albert1988]

Quote: YOUR

The representative of Azerbaijan reported.

Well, the Azerbaijanis will now "report", they will report so much - they are storytellers that are one, that others ...

[YOUR]

So what am I talking about?

[Tim werner]

Armenian anti-aircraft gunners managed to shoot down 260 different enemy drones, including over 10 Turkish Bayraktar TB2. Such data were presented by the Ministry of Defense of Armenia.

well, Armenians are notable storytellers ...)))

[Logic]

Such small victorious wars happen
when the big brother of one turned away, and the big
the brothers of the other are just helping.
This, by the way, is the solution to the phenomenal victory.
Israel over the Arabs in the 1970s.

[Krasnodar]

In the 70s, the big Soviet brother did not turn away from anyone and was even physically present there. In 73, the Americans organized the logistics of military supplies more efficiently, but in the diplomatic field they were able to give the Israelis only delay until the end of the war.
The situations are very different, the strengths of the parties too.

[Vissarion Golubov]

By the 73 war, there were not a single owl in Egypt. Anvar Sadat sent everyone out, giving each of them a medal ... There are no analogs to the American Voentorg, if we take such a time interval, at all. If you touch on a topic, write accurately, without distorting ...

[Krasnodar]

By the war of 73, there were not a single owl in Egypt. specialist

In 69-70 (War of Attrition) there was an air defense and air force grouping and not only. In 1972, Sadat asked to leave Egypt.
In 1973 - yes, the advisers were in Syria, in Egypt, sort of did not have.

If you touch on a topic, write accurately, without distorting ...

And to be very precise, the supply of Soviet weapons to Egypt began in the second week of the 1973 war, and to Syria on the third day

[Vissarion Golubov]

On account ,, was there physically ,,. Where was and where not. Please, describe the American Military of that period.

[alavrin]

If we talk about a "phenomenal victory", then this is 1967. And the Yom Kippur War is somewhat different. Although Israel eventually managed to turn the tide, the losses were significant. On the contrary, they rearmed. So no one there turned away. Before breaking up with Sadat.

[Vissarion Golubov]

Once again: Sadat expelled the owls. specialists before the war 73 years

[Vissarion Golubov]

So, of course, different. If Israel has already suspended nuclear weapons on carriers. In some areas, some reservists were already fighting, but they fought selflessly.

[Krasnodar]

So no one there turned away. Before breaking up with Sadat.

The complete break with Salat came a couple of years after the Yom Kippur War. In 1973 he was still helped

[stone]

At 67, the Americans have not yet collaborated with Israel. The French, who collaborated, after the outbreak of the war, curtailed their cooperation.

[voyaka uh]

Azerbaijan has competently prepared itself for modern warfare. And he spent it right.
He began by destroying air defense.
Then they destroyed the tanks from the air.
Thus, they secured themselves from enemy tank attacks.
Then they took up artillery, MLRS.
Having finished them off, they began to hollow the infantry.
At the same time, they did not forget about distracting operations.
Then the special forces broke through to Shusha.
And the war ended with a convincing victory.

[Vissarion Golubov]

In the first Karabakh affairs they did not go so well. To cheer ourselves up, they played the dock on TV. film ,, Ten Stalinist blows ,,. Interesting film. We prepared for the second and won ...

[Krasnodar]

During the first Karabakh conflict, they were more involved in the struggle for power in Azerbaijan itself.

[Albert1988]

Quote: voyaka uh

Azerbaijan has competently prepared itself for modern warfare. And he spent it right.

One small amendment - Turkey prepared Azerbaijan for modern warfare, provided it with drones and drone operators, provided it with cheap cannon fodder from Syria.

Quote: voyaka uh

He began by destroying air defense.
Then they destroyed the tanks from the air.
Thus, they secured themselves from enemy tank attacks.
Then they took up artillery, MLRS.
Having finished them off, they began to hollow the infantry.

Also a correction - MLRS and drones struck simultaneously and in a coordinated manner, from which the Armenians suffered such large losses.

Quote: voyaka uh

At the same time, they did not forget about distracting operations.
Then the special forces broke through to Shusha.
And the war ended with a convincing victory.

And one more important clarification - Azerbaijan and Turkey chose the right time for this operation, when, on the one hand, there was zero readiness for war in Armenia (for internal reasons), on the other, when Russia would not fit in with Armenia in any way (even diplomatically), since the pashinnian woman has specifically pissed off Russia ... Well, "from the third side" - the moment was chosen when just NOBODY from near or far could / did not want to support Armenia. This has already amounted to at least 50% of the victory ...

[VyacheSeymour]

Perfect war ...

[Albert1988]

Quote: VyacheSeymour

Perfect war ...

As the saying goes, "choosing the right battlefield is half the battle."

[VyacheSeymour]

As the saying goes, "choosing the right battlefield is half the battle."

It was a sin for Azerbaijan to continue to sit and wait for the weather by the sea, since all the stars converged ...
God willing, now controversial issues will be resolved at a peaceful chessboard - here the teams have old competitive graters for prizes ...

[Albert1988]

Quote: VyacheSeymour

It was a sin for Azerbaijan to continue to sit and wait for the weather by the sea, since all the stars converged ...
God willing, now controversial issues will be resolved at a peaceful chessboard - here the teams have old competitive graters for prizes ...

The problem is that now only the presence of Russian peacekeepers will keep both sides from active JUD, but sluggish firefights and provocations will continue anyway ... For the level of mutual hatred between the conflicting parties is incredible ...
The saddest thing is that now repressions and persecutions of the Armenian population of Karabakh will begin, and the Azerbaijanis will not return there - there will actually be a ghost land ...

[Albay]

Azerbaijanis will not return there - there will actually be a ghost land ...

Why not come back? Judge for yourself?
Earlier they said Azerbaijan will never win, will not start a war, Armenia is stronger. Well, what happened? They started a war and won.
Also, they will return and repopulate the land.
People want to return, the state creates conditions for them. Yes, not tomorrow everything will return, a descendant of the fact that the Armenians dismantled all the houses stone by stone. Well, this new challenge will be rebuilt and populated.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

Why not come back? Judge for yourself?

I judge by the example of many such conflicts in the world - you can search for information yourself. Such territories are very unattractive for immigrants, as they are constant tension. Even now, the parties manage to get overwhelmed so robustly!

Quote: Albay

Earlier they said Azerbaijan will never win, will not start a war, Armenia is stronger.

Maybe in the 90s and early 2000s, they said so, but for the last 15 years there was such an active military construction in Azerbaijan, and in Armenia, accordingly, there was such a thrashing and sawing that only the blind could not understand that it would not end well for Armenia.

Quote: Albay

Also, they will return and repopulate the land.
People want to return, the state creates conditions for them. Yes, not tomorrow everything will return, a descendant of the fact that the Armenians dismantled all the houses stone by stone. Well, this new challenge will be rebuilt and populated.

If so, it will be good. But one thing will be bad in any case - all the Armenians, who are exactly the same indigenous there, will be expelled, just as in their time the Armenians expelled all the indigenous Azerbaijanis!

[Albay]

I judge by the example of many such conflicts in the world - you can search for information yourself. Such territories are very unattractive for immigrants, as they are constant tension.

It will never again be a zone of tension. After the first war, Armenia tried to swallow a larger chunk than it could digest. There are miles of land liberated far from the line of the present, say, front. Now roads, airports, train stations and territories are actively being cleared of mines, power stations, water and gas pipelines are being built. Construction of towns and villages begins. The state is launching an incentive program for those who want to return. Jobs are being created. There are a lot of people who wish.
The Azerbaijani army is now many times stronger than the Armenian and Armenian, and it will take many years to even reach the level of the pre-war state. Therefore, there will be no tension

Maybe in the 90s and early 2000s, they said so, but for the last 15 years there was such an active military construction in Azerbaijan, and in Armenia, accordingly, there was such a thrashing and sawing that only the blind could not understand that it would not end well for Armenia.

Well, no need to dissemble, I have been writing and reading on this forum since 2010 and have always met the same thing here among users, Armenia is stronger, Azerbaijan will never dare to go to war, that Aliyev, buying weapons and making threatening statements, works for an internal audience, Armenia will win So you don’t need to tell me the opposite, they say this was not

who are exactly the same indigenous there, will be expelled, just as the Armenians once expelled all the indigenous Azerbaijanis!

Only 25 thousand Armenians live there, at one time they expelled more than 700 thousand Azerbaijanis from these territories, I have never read any regrets about this among Russians.
I think, on the contrary, no one will expel the Armenians, but will try to create better conditions for them, but the majority will leave themselves because of the ideology that they have hammered into their heads that they cannot genetically exist alongside the Azerbaijanis.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

It will never again be a zone of tension.

When they stop shooting, then we will "take a look", but for now - the usual zone of a frozen conflict.

Quote: Albay

There are many kilometers of land liberated far from the line of the present, say, front. Now the roads, airports, train stations and territories are being cleared of mines, power stations are being built, water and gas pipelines. Construction of cities and villages is starting. The state is launching an incentive program for those who want to return. Jobs are being created. There are a lot of people willing.

That's when all this will be realized - then we'll talk ...

Quote: Albay

The Azerbaijani army is now many times stronger than the Armenian and Armenian, and it will take many years to even reach the level of the pre-war state. Therefore, there will be no tension

So it is already there - shooting at full speed from both sides.

Quote: Albay

Well, no need to dissemble, I have been writing and reading on this forum since 2010 and have always met the same thing here among users, Armenia is stronger, Azerbaijan will never dare to go to war, that Aliyev, buying weapons and making threatening statements, works for an internal audience, Armenia will win So you don’t need to tell me the opposite, they say this was not

One question - how can you write here since 2010, if you have been on the site for 1 year by the indicator? And then - who wrote this here and spoke about "invincible Armenia?" - the Armenians wrote)))) Now they, though in the daytime with fire, will not be found. But earlier, after each local exacerbation in Karabakh, which ended in nothing, they ran up and broadcast what kind of eagles they were. Likewise, during the events in Belarus, the "Belarusians" type came up and broadcast. as now the dad has been overthrown, but now they are silent - not to see them. Right now, after the events, there are many well-known Azerbaijanis, and before that, it was not really possible to see them ...

Quote: Albay

Only 25 thousand Armenians live there, at one time they expelled more than 700 thousand Azerbaijanis from these territories, I have never read any regrets about this among Russians.

25 thousand - that's left, and there were not 700 Azerbaijanis, but 000, but about 400 Armenians. 000 is the total population of Karabakh during the Soviet period.
What about not being sorry? For one simple reason - the Azerbaijanis and Armenians, after gaining a type of independence, immediately, first of all, with an insane frenzy, unleashed this conflict and began to gorgeously cut each other. As they say, the civilized times are over ... It was a common choice that the Armenians. that the Azerbaijanis, alas ...

Quote: Albay

I think, on the contrary, no one will expel the Armenians, but they will try to create better conditions.

Well, yes, yes, the recently leaked video of five young and healthy Azerbaijani soldiers mocking an old Armenian man is a clear sign that better conditions have been created ... The main thing is that Karabakh was annexed, Karabakh was not annexed - the life of an ordinary Azerbaijani in Azerbaijan will not change .. ...

[Albay]

One question - how can you write here since 2010, if you are on the site for 1 year by the indicator

I had another nickname yarbay. He was banned forever in a dispute with one "eternal" Armenian user)))

And then - who wrote this here and spoke about "invincible Armenia?" - the Armenians wrote)))) Now they, though in the daytime with fire, will not be found.

No dear, almost all users, with rare exceptions, wrote the same thing as Armenian users.

and there were not 700 Azerbaijanis, but 000, but about 400 Armenians.

"Will you show me the Kremlin"?))
Perhaps I know better than you how many lived there and how many were expelled from there?

The main thing is that they annexed Karabakh, did not annex Karabakh - the life of an ordinary Azerbaijani in Azerbaijan will not change ...

They did not annex Karabakh, but liberated their homeland and an ordinary Azerbaijani is more happy about this than anything else, and everything will change for an ordinary citizen.

Yes, the recently leaked video of five young and healthy Azerbaijani soldiers mocking an old Armenian man is a clear sign of better conditions.

I saw one such video and on the video an old man who participated in the massacre in Khojaly where unarmed women and children were killed. I am against any violence against prisoners or unarmed people, these are my principles. But neither can you teach us, there is a huge amount of videos and testimonies of how your soldiers mocked the Chechens, and they have inherited a lot from us.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

I had another nickname yarbay. He was banned forever in a dispute with one "eternal" Armenian user)))

It is regrettable ... True, it is worth noting - the "Armenian" users are now blown away by the wind, without any ban)))

Quote: Albay

No dear, almost all users, with rare exceptions, wrote the same thing as Armenian users.

Do you know how many Armenians were grazing here? What is from Armenia, what is "local", living in Moscow ...

Quote: Albay

"Will you show me the Kremlin"?))
Perhaps I know better than you how many lived there and how many were expelled from there?

You know, better than the State Statistics Service of the USSR? Then I have no questions ...

Quote: Albay

They did not annex Karabakh, but liberated their homeland and an ordinary Azerbaijani is more happy about this than anything else, and everything will change for an ordinary citizen.

Even if this is so, the essence will not change ... In Crimea, everything has changed a lot, no matter how you call it “annexation”, “reunification,” or even seizure-annexation-occupation ...

Quote: Albay

I saw one such video and on the video an old man who participated in the massacre in Khojaly where unarmed women and children were killed. I am against any violence against prisoners or unarmed people, these are my principles, but neither can you teach us, there is a huge amount of videos and testimonies of how your soldiers mocked Chechens

That is, in response to some bullying, instead of a court, they staged their bullying ...
What then can we talk about?
About Chechnya, no one here argues that this war was hell and a whirlwind of violence, in which many civilians died and many crimes were committed.

Quote: Albay

and they have inherited a lot with us.

Have Russian soldiers "inherited" you? When is this? This is something very interesting ...

[Albay]

About Chechnya - no one here argues that this war was hell and a whirlwind of violence, in which many civilians died and many crimes were committed

Then there is nothing to tell someone how to behave in a war with a criminal, if they themselves have a beam in their eye!
You don't have to pretend to be Mother Teresa.

Have Russian soldiers "inherited" you? When is this? This is something very interesting ...

Of course you don't know))
The 366th regiment directly participated in the massacre of civilians in Khojaly together with the Armenians.
At 90 m, they also saw what your soldier is capable of with civilians.
Yes, and I remember during the first war, drg with Russian soldiers were captured.
I can throw off the video.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

Then there is nothing to tell someone how to behave in a war with a criminal, if they themselves have a beam in their eye!
You don't have to pretend to be Mother Teresa.

That is, in your opinion, it is necessary to repeat other people's mistakes? If they say they behaved like that, then will we?

Quote: Albay

Of course you don't know))
The 366th regiment directly participated in the massacre of civilians in Khojaly together with the Armenians.

Of course, it was just this regiment, the Armenians were shown an example of how to "break" correctly. They believed ...

[Albay]

That is, in your opinion, it is necessary to repeat other people's mistakes? If they say they behaved like that, then will we?

No, I am an officer and I have principles that do not allow me to do what I consider unacceptable, but when people like you try to show us some kind of animals, being animals to the tip of your hair, I show you who you are.

Of course, it was just this regiment, the Armenians were shown an example of how to "break" correctly. They believed ...

Dear, the denial of what happened is impossible, because you don't know about it Or "don't lie", this does not mean that this was not the case. me and know how to use the Internet. I gave you the introductory google and there the material is above the roof. I will not find it for you tomorrow.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

No, I am an officer and I have principles that do not allow me to do what I consider unacceptable.

This is right! To you for this immense respect!

Quote: Albay

But when people like you try to show us some kind of animals, being themselves animals to the tip of their hair

We are not trying to expose, but we regret that in spite of everything, such sad facts come out in this war ...
This time. Two - if the Russians were really beasts to the tip of their hair, there would be no country and nation like Azerbaijan now, it would have ended under the tsars, like the Indians in America ...

Quote: Albay

I am showing you who you are.

You cannot show us this, because you yourself do not know, especially you do not know what happened in the same Chechnya, for example, you are especially unaware of that. that the greatest bitterness was precisely between the Chechens themselves.

Quote: Albay

Dear, the denial of what happened is impossible, because you don't know about it Or "don't lie", this does not mean that this was not the case. me and know how to use the Internet. I gave you the introductory google and there the material is above the roof. I will not find it for you tomorrow.

You know, in Google you can find a lot of such interesting and wonderful things ... Only you can't prove the reliability ...
But at one time I had a conversation with one old "KGB officer", he told a lot, including about the role of the KGB in the situation in Soviet Central Asia during the collapse of the USSR. Including a lot of hard-hitting things about the KGB itself, including how it was diligently fueled and exaggerated that Soviet troops were massacring the local population, especially in areas of ethnic enclaves, etc. Moreover, it was exaggerated and disseminated in many respects by the KGB officers themselves ... Why is a separate question, to which my interlocutor did not give an answer ...

[Albay]

his cheap cannon fodder from the same Syria.

Again old fairy tales.
Where is at least one fact of the participation of Syrian militants, where are the prisoners, where are the troupes?
The Armenians tried to pass off two Syrian Armenians as militants, they staged a circus with interrogations with tears and what?))) Where are they? Why are they not shown to the world community?)))
Shooting enthusiasts came from Armenia and Europe and from the Middle East from Lebanon from Syria, how did they help?
Why would a regular, trained army need a rabble of militants? There were enough fighters in the Azerbaijani army.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

Again old fairy tales.
Where is at least one fact of the participation of Syrian militants, where are the prisoners, where are the troupes?
The Armenians tried to pass off two Syrian Armenians as militants, they staged a circus with interrogations with tears and what?))) Where are they? Why are they not shown to the world community?)))
Shooting enthusiasts came from Armenia and Europe and from the Middle East from Lebanon from Syria, how did they help?
Why would a regular, trained army need a rabble of militants? There were enough fighters in the Azerbaijani army.

It is clear that the Armenians have no prisoners - they somehow defended themselves, sometimes they skidded - the situation does not favor the capture of prisoners. And why are the militants of the regular army? Throw on enemy positions like meat in order to bind in battle. It worked well in bad weather, when drones don't fly too much.
As for fairy tales - that the Armenians, that the Azerbaijanis are the same storytellers, completely stand with each other. First, one second, then the second first.

[Albay]

Throw on enemy positions like meat in order to bind in battle. It worked well in bad weather, when drones don't fly too much.

1. Almost from the first day until November, the weather was good and the drones flew as they wanted.
2.I will repeat to attack the enemy positions, there were enough of our own soldiers, trained and willing to fight. Many soldiers came from the places where they were expelled and even generals. The commander of the corps in the south, Major General Barkhudarov, was expelled from the city of Gubadly with his family as a teenager and so I entered a military school. The commander of the 1st corps, General Hikmet Hasanov, a refugee from the Fizuli region and there were thousands of them. The soldiers were already motivated above the roof and were ready to carry out any order. I repeat the question, why do you need meat? and rabble of militants if there are regular army soldiers trained and motivated. Yes, and the whole offensive was conducted very competently. Ahead of the marching units were divided into groups of 10-12 fighters, in almost each group there were 1-2 special forces fighters who led the groups.
Other special forces units also carried out operations in groups to penetrate into the rear and encircle positions.In general, the factor of special forces played a huge, if not decisive, role in this war.

It is clear that the Armenians have no prisoners - they somehow defended themselves, then

So they tried for three days for a long time to foist the clowns of the Syrian Armenians for the captured militants))))
Do you want to be quite frank, the Armenians intimidated themselves with these militants))
During the attack, the Azerbaijani army called Allahu akbar. As the Armenians heard this cry, they immediately ran, assuming that they were fabulous mercenaries))
And now they justify themselves by the fact that they fought with the Syrians and Martians, therefore they fled, and they would not have fled from the Azerbaijanis)))

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

1. Almost from the first day until November, the weather was good and the drones flew as they wanted.

Only all the time of the war it wasn’t good.

Quote: Albay

To repeat, there were enough of our own soldiers, trained and willing to fight, to attack the enemy's positions. Many soldiers came from the places where they were expelled, and even generals. The commander of the corps in the southern direction, Major General Barkhudarov, was expelled from the city of Gubadly with his family as a teenager, and therefore entered a military school. The commander of the 1st corps, General Hikmet Hasanov, a refugee from the Fizuli region and there were thousands of them. The soldiers were already motivated above the roof and were ready to carry out any order. I repeat the question, why do we need meat? and rabble of militants if there are regular army soldiers trained and motivated. Yes, and the whole offensive was conducted very competently. Ahead of the marching units were divided into groups of 10-12 fighters, in almost each group there were 1-2 special forces fighters who led the groups.
Other special forces units also carried out operations in groups to penetrate into the rear and encircle positions.In general, the factor of special forces played a huge, if not decisive, role in this war.

Special Forces are a very delicate tool, you cannot throw it at the embrasures, but while "meat" is thrown at the embrasures, the special forces are carrying out filigree operations, including behind enemy lines.

Quote: Albay

So they tried for three days for a long time to foist the clowns of the Syrian Armenians for the captured militants))))

And where did they get these "Syrian Armenians" there?

Quote: Albay

During the attack, the Azerbaijani army called Allahu akbar. As the Armenians heard this cry, they immediately ran, assuming that they were fabulous mercenaries))
And now they justify themselves by the fact that they fought with the Syrians and Martians, therefore they fled, and they would not have fled from the Azerbaijanis)))

So you will decide already - they scattered like rabbits in front of a boa constrictor, or did they show noticeable resistance.

[Albay]

Special Forces are a very delicate tool, you cannot throw it on the embrasures, but while "meat" is thrown on the embrasures - the special forces are carrying out filigree operations, including behind enemy lines

That's just the point in this war, no one was thrown into the embrasures. The fighting was carried out competently and everything was done to ensure that the losses were minimal. The operation was prepared taking into account modern battle tactics.

Only all the time of the war it wasn’t good.

Was respected as I was personally a witness to this.

And where did they get these "Syrian Armenians" there?

From Syria, of course))

So you will already decide - they scattered like rabbits in front of a boa constrictor, or did they still put up noticeable resistance

Why do you read all the time not what I write or go troll me?
I wrote that in some places in certain areas where there were powerful defensive lines, the enemy offered fierce resistance.
The most intense resistance was shown near the village of Garakhanbeyli near the city of Fizuli. Using advantageous positions and a network of tunnels and bunkers, they held out there for almost two weeks, but the special forces from the Hadrut side, having taken all the heights, did not completely surround the enemy. This does not mean that they resisted so much everywhere. That fortified area held out, others had long been abandoned, the city of Jebrail had already been taken, many villages, the urban-type settlement of Hadrut, The troops were at Zangilan and advanced to Khojavend and Shusha.
After the capture of that fortified area, only at the Red Bazaar there were fierce battles in Shusha. Shusha was taken in two days, only the corpses of Armenian soldiers in the city were counted more than 500 when they were handed over to the Armenian side.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

That's just the point in this war, no one was thrown into the embrasures. The fighting was carried out competently and everything was done to ensure that the losses were minimal. The operation was prepared taking into account modern battle tactics.

Throwing "mercenaries" who do not belong to the army and whose losses are completely to the side is also a very good tactic, it works well. And the fact that everything was competently planned and carried out - no one doubts it ...

Quote: Albay

Was respected as I was personally a witness to this.

Did you take part in the database? On all sectors of the front?

Quote: Albay

From Syria, of course))

You can get out of Syria in different ways, and for different reasons.

Quote: Albay

I wrote that in some places in certain areas where there were powerful defensive lines, the enemy offered fierce resistance.
The most intense resistance was shown near the village of Garakhanbeyli near the city of Fizuli. Using advantageous positions and a network of tunnels and bunkers, they held out there for almost two weeks, but the special forces from the Hadrut side, having taken all the heights, did not completely surround the enemy. This does not mean that they resisted so much everywhere. That fortified area held out, others had long been abandoned, the city of Jebrail had already been taken, many villages, the urban-type settlement of Hadrut, The troops were at Zangilan and advanced to Khojavend and Shusha.
After the capture of that fortified area, only at the Red Bazaar there were fierce battles in Shusha. Shusha was taken in two days, only the corpses of Armenian soldiers in the city were counted more than 500 when they were handed over to the Armenian side.

This is where we had to start. as you can see, everything is very complicated. By the way, we can talk about the significant heterogeneity of the Armenian army.

[Albay]

This is where we had to start. as you can see, everything is very complicated. By the way, we can talk about the significant heterogeneity of the Armenian army.

I started with this, but I had to clarify)
I think, in addition to the material and technical equipment, there was a problem of controllability in the Armenian army and in the training of personnel. From the first war I learned a lesson for myself that volunteers and all kinds of militia units are evil for centralized control and they do not help solving problems, how much more These units are usually unstable so as not to be spoken about.
In addition, I believe that the general staff of the Azerbaijani army carried out operations not only exemplarily, but also creatively. Having won the sky, they constantly changed the direction of attacks and forced enemy units to move along few roads until they knocked out all the equipment. Special forces carried out unique operations. in hard-to-reach places, they went to the enemy's positions where they were not expected. There was a case when one special forces soldier on the radio in the Hadrut area on behalf of the command gave an order to step off the enemy battalion, which indicates that the enemy's communications were poorly protected.
All these factors and especially the presence of irigular units led to panic among the Armenian soldiers.

Throwing "mercenaries" who do not belong to the army and whose losses are completely to the side is also a very good tactic, it works well.

There was no need for this.
This would destroy the stability of the army.
All these tales about the "Syrians" were thrown in by the Armenian side so that the world community put pressure on Azerbaijan and forced it to stop. Not one fact is not present. This is nonsense!

[Albay]

Having finished them off, they began to hollow the infantry.

I absolutely agree with you.
https://youtu.be/3yIR-fKpgaM
In this video, the operator of the drone "Bayraktar", frames 43:18, says that at the end of October, they could not find equipment for destruction throughout the territory. After a certain time, he says when we hit a cluster of enemy soldiers, the enemy then began to crumble and to bring them together we threw a rocket somewhere nearby, the enemy fled and then had to get together to discuss what to do and then we hit with a second rocket.

[Denis812]

and ended everything with causing 75% of losses to Armenians with ARTILLERY.
And so yes. Bayraktars, death star and so on.
In reality, the Armenians simply did not want to fight.
Unlike the previous conflict.
Stupidly did not want to. Burnt out. Not their land.

[Konnick]

In reality, the Armenians simply did not want to fight.

Good excuse ... and if we wanted to, we would have won. The main desire

[Denis812]

Yes, I do not justify them at all.
They think this is their land. They talked - it means their fault.
And what is the reason ... But what I see for sure is that they had no motivation.
Here someone at the top has already said that Armenia would like to preserve NK - it would recognize it.
That is, the leadership of Armenia did not have the desire and will. This resulted in non-recognition and subsequent formal non-involvement of the army.
And second, the Armenian people were also happy with it. That is, perhaps the divisions of the "defenders" were lying on the sofas. But I didn’t see the queues at the military registration and enlistment offices in Yerevan.
Therefore, Armenia in general on the drum on NK.
As a citizen of the Russian Federation, I would like to say, well, thank God.
But as a citizen, even if of another state, I want to say - well, you creatures, gentlemen, who kept NK under Armenia all this time. The creatures that turned out to be cowards in the end.

[Albay]

But as a citizen, even if of another state, I want to say - well, you creatures, gentlemen, who kept NK under Armenia all this time. The creatures that turned out to be cowards in the end.

Moreover, they turned the captured territories into deserts, once blossoming gardens and houses that were intact tore over stones and destroyed. And what is their act when, at the request of Russia, they were given 10 more days to leave the Kalbejar region. They burned all the houses and cut down the gardens and trees in the forests. The main thing is that Armenians never lived in this area before the conflict.

[Denis812]

You probably know better.
I'm just sorry that people died.

[Albay]

In reality, the Armenians simply did not want to fight.

They wanted, but could not. They had no chance and they began to understand this already by the end of the first week. Seeing how much the Azerbaijani army was superior to their army, they did not want it. And this process was going on every day!
It's not just the bayraktars, the kharops in general terrified with their sound, spayki, Kasyrga, Linox, artillery
aviation, special operations forces, they all participated in a comprehensive manner in inflicting defeat on the enemy.

[MauZerR]

"We were taken by surprise, but we were on our guard." How stereotyped. He laughed heartily about the situation with "revealing the air defense positions", yeah of the tracked TOP ... Looks like moving to another position - the Armenians do not know.

[Albert1988]

Quote: MauZerR

"We were taken by surprise, but we were on our guard." How stereotyped. He laughed heartily about the situation with "revealing the air defense positions", yeah of the tracked TOP ... Looks like moving to another position - the Armenians do not know.

Knowing the Armenians, I would not be surprised that their mobile air defense systems could not change their positions for months ...

[Denis812]

you cannot change the location of the complex.
Tomatoes and tangerines were already on the tracks. Already dug up the beds nearby. And buyers are used to it. We need to keep the complexes in the right place.

[Krasnoyarsk]

= ... to force Armenian anti-aircraft gunners to waste Tor-M2KM air defense missile systems and to reveal the positions of anti-aircraft systems. This was achieved by launching An-2 planes filled with explosives into the affected area, the pilots of which jumped out with a parachute, as well as reconnaissance drones. =
Can anyone explain to me where the AN-2 pilots who jumped out with a parachute landed? And, where did the AN-2 stuffed with explosives fly next?

[Albert1988]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Can anyone explain to me where the AN-2 pilots who jumped out with a parachute landed? And, where did the AN-2 stuffed with explosives fly next?

An-2 underwent a slight modification - it was equipped with equipment. which made it possible to control it remotely, but only in flight, it was necessary to take off in manual mode, the pilot took off and immediately after climbing he jumped, then the car went on remote control. And it could be dropped like a huge kamikaze drone on something (a full load of the An-2 with explosives is still not sour). The Armenians were actively buying these baits, activated all the air defense systems available in the area, which successfully unmasked themselves, and since the Armenian air defense systems stuck in one place as if rooted to the spot, and also due to the terrible technical condition, they became good targets ...

[Albay]

the pilot took off and immediately after climb jumped,

Bullshit. The Air Force commander clearly said the planes were unmanned and no one controlled them during takeoff.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

Bullshit. The Air Force commander clearly said the planes were unmanned and no one controlled them during takeoff.

Maybe you are right. Personally, I believe even more in this version - taking off with a pilot who then jumps - is somehow too difficult and risky, now it's easier to fully automate everything.

[Albay]

pilots who jumped out with a parachute, as well as reconnaissance drones. =

Э
This is the fiction of the author and his fantasies.
In fact, in the video, the commander says that the AN-2s were unmanned.
2. In case the command's intention was unraveled, these aircraft were loaded with explosives and bombs and were sent to the enemy military targets predetermined.

[lopuhan2006]

Quote: Yujanin

Yes, these figures are most likely clearly overestimated. There was a figure of 117 on the Web.

It's like with the number of victims of genocide in the OI. Over time, the numbers will only grow.

Ha! Well, about 6 million is already a parable .... At the time of the beginning of the 000nd world census in Germany showed less than 000 million. And they asked for compensation for 2 million. Precisely the Germanic chosen by God ....

[Albert1988]

Quote: lopuhan2006

At the beginning of the 2nd world census in Germany showed less than 3 million. And they asked for compensation for 6 million. Precisely the Germanic chosen by God ....

: millions - this is also counting French, Polish, Danish and so on. And they asked for compensation not for those who lived in Germany, but for everyone. whom the Germans destroyed in one way or another. This is so, in fairness ...

[Suleiman]

Quote: tralflot1832

The loss of 13 pieces of Bayroktar is confirmed by the Swedish Institute for Peace Problems. It monitors losses. A total of 47 pieces were lost in different points. Only in Karabakh they could do something. In other points, Bayroktar could not change the course of the battles. You filled the Karabakh with your own and Armenian blood, thousands died. on both sides. You have not mastered modern non-contact combat tactics.

By the way, according to the National Academy of Sciences of Azerbaijan (ANAS) In 1283, the Swedes entered Lake Ladoga on the Neva, killed Novgorodians - Obonezh merchants and shot down 45 S-70 Okhotnik UAVs.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Suleyman

By the way, according to the National Academy of Sciences of Azerbaijan (ANAS) In 1283, the Swedes entered Lake Ladoga on the Neva, killed Novgorodians - Obonezh merchants and shot down 45 S-70 Okhotnik UAVs.

"Sometimes chewing is better than talking" (old gum ad)

[Block_Byte]

Was it possible to keep Shusha and other cities?
Can. If we had prepared in advance for UAV strikes.
After all, before that, the Armenians saw how in Syria the UAVs of the Turks were destroying Syrian tanks, artillery, and air defense missile systems. They knew that the Turks had brought in UAVs and Israeli kamikaze drones. They knew it all. But why didn't you prepare well?
Why didn't the S-300 shoot down the Turkish aircraft? Why were there no multilevel air defense systems? Why didn't Pantsir protect the S-300? Why weren't front-line early warning radars turned on at the border? Where were the Armenian satellites?
Why didn't Armenian militias come from all over the world? Who were they hoping for?

[Albert1988]

Quote: Block_Byte

Was it possible to keep Shusha and other cities?
Can. If we had prepared in advance for UAV strikes.

The whole of Karabakh could also be retained. if you prepare ... Just prepare for conflict! Instead, the Armenian sorosets from the newly-minted Pashinyanchik government were engaged in sawing everything on the one hand. what is possible, with another barking at his only ally, in the person of Russia, and a demonstrative licking of the butt of his opponents, in the person of the West. So everything is very natural ...

[VyacheSeymour]

Where were the Armenian satellites?

Satellites or companions?

[Suleiman]

Quote: Yarasa

Armenian troops do not fight, but only some Karabakh troops without air defense fighting against Azerbaijan?

How do they not fight? So after all, the article begins with that)))

[/ quote] The Azerbaijani army in the first days of the military conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh managed to suppress up to 60% of anti-aircraft systems, included in the air defense system of Armenia. [Quote]

[Suleiman]

Quote: Block_Byte

Was it possible to keep Shusha and other cities?
Can. If we had prepared in advance for UAV strikes.

What other UAVs? What does the UAV have to do with the capture of the city? Shusha was taken by the Mountain Special Forces of the General Staff. Drones were generally passive in the last week of the war due to weather conditions. Yes, and only SSO-shniki took the city from three directions, about 400-500 people.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Suleyman

What other UAVs? What does the UAV have to do with the capture of the city? Shusha was taken by the Mountain Special Forces of the General Staff. Drones were generally passive in the last week of the war due to weather conditions. Yes, and only SSO-shniki took the city from three directions, about 400-500 people.

Can you answer a simple question for yourself - could you have taken Shusha / Stepanakert with the same special forces WITHOUT a preliminary operation, including with the use of drones? Everything will immediately become clear ...

[VyacheSeymour]

Half after the Armenians fell and collapsed everything that was possible - why not. Did you take the passes and impregnable fortresses before the advent of drones?

[Albert1988]

Quote: VyacheSeymour

Half after the Armenians fell and collapsed everything that was possible - why not.

So I just mean that without the total collapse of the Armenians "everything", this would not have happened, but about what was taken before the drones - before the drones (in modern DB) there was aviation. Actually, drones are the same aviation, which is not a pity to lose ... That's why they are dangerous.

[Albay]

Answer yourself to a simple question - could you have taken Shusha / Stepanakert with the same special forces WITHOUT a preliminary operation, including with the use of drones? Everything will immediately become clear ...

The UAV was not used there because of the weather, at this time of the year there the weather conditions do not allow them to be used. The city is at a high altitude and there are constantly fogs and rains.

[Davtyan Robert]

What an abomination. The Turks completely removed the Azerbaijanis from the command of the troops.
All drones were operated by Turkish operators from Turkey, Turkish pilots, as well as Israeli operators from Azerbaijan. Now Azerbaijanis are bragging about their victory.
Disgusting.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Davtyan Robert

What an abomination. The Turks completely removed the Azerbaijanis from the command of the troops.
All drones were operated by Turkish operators from Turkey, Turkish pilots, as well as Israeli operators from Azerbaijan. Now Azerbaijanis are bragging about their victory.
Disgusting.

It is highly doubtful. that from Turkey and Israel, but the fact that the Turkish operators "taxied" bayraktar and other drones (which the Azerbaijanis did not manage to master) from Azerbaijan itself is a fact that is almost not hidden.

[Vlad Baryatinsky]

Quote: Albert1988

me, but the fact that the Turkish operators "drove" bayraktars and other drones (which the Azerbaijanis did not manage to master) from Azerbaijan itself

A small note: UAV Operators Schools, has been operating since 2009, in Azerbaijan!

[Albert1988]

Quote: Vlad Baryatinsky

A small note: UAV Operators Schools, has been operating since 2009, in Azerbaijan!

Therefore, in my comment it is written:

Quote: Albert1988

(which Azerbaijanis did not manage to master)

I strongly doubt that the bayraktars that Azerbaijan acquired a few months before the conflict, and which were actively and clearly professionally used during the conflict itself, were operated by operators who had just learned ...

[Vlad Baryatinsky]

Quote: Albert1988

I strongly doubt

Here, I-pass!
In no way did I set myself the goal of changing your worldview, this is a conflict!

[Albert1988]

Quote: Vlad Baryatinsky

In no way did I set myself the goal of changing your worldview, this is a conflict!

This is not a matter of worldview, dear, this is a matter of technology ...

[OgnennyiKotik]

Bayraktarmi was unambiguously ruled by the Turks, the handwriting is the same in Syria, Libya, and Karabakh. The operators were experienced and had already fought. By contrast, the use of bayraktar in Donbas.
However, the main role was played by Israeli weapons. Their UAVs (Hermes, Kharops), electronic warfare systems, missiles are head and shoulders above the Turkish ones, and it was they who opened the defense of the Armenians. Without them, Azerbaijan still fought border battles, the Armenians built a powerful defensive line and fought bravely. But this "line" was relevant in the 20th century, but not in the 21st.

[Albert1988]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

However, the main role was played by Israeli weapons. Their UAVs (Hermes, Kharops), electronic warfare systems, missiles are head and shoulders above the Turkish ones, and it was they who opened the defense of the Armenians. Without them, Azerbaijan has still fought border battles

Plus a well-planned operation with total unpreparedness and disorganization of the enemy.

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Armenians built a powerful defensive line and fought bravely.

The Karabakh Armenians fought bravely, the Armenian Armenians at that time actively went to visit their relatives in Russia, which "threw" them (according to their heart-rending cries), on "urgent matters" ...

[Albay]

The Karabakh Armenians fought bravely, the Armenian Armenians actively visited their relatives at that time

In fact, on the borders of the first line of defense, the Armenians showed fierce resistance. In this they were helped by the echeloned lines, minefields, bunkers, ditches built over 30 years. Even after the breakthrough of the defense line in the south, near the city of Fizuli, they had a very seriously equipped fortified area. which was captured after two weeks of heavy fighting. Everything was concreted there, and only the exit of special forces to the rear of that group and the capture of the dominant heights in the rear made the enemy flee, but with this they destroyed themselves. In the open area they were ambushed and almost completely were destroyed.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

In fact, on the borders of the first line of defense, the Armenians showed fierce resistance. In this they were helped by the echeloned lines, minefields, bunkers, ditches built over 30 years. Even after the breakthrough of the defense line in the south, near the city of Fizuli, they had a very seriously equipped fortified area. which was captured after two weeks of heavy fighting. Everything was concreted there, and only the exit of special forces to the rear of that group and the capture of the dominant heights in the rear made the enemy flee, but with this they destroyed themselves. In the open area they were ambushed and almost completely were destroyed.

But you are talking about the Armenians from the "Karabakh army", who in a very significant proportion are local. But the Armenians from sunny Armenia just rushed to Russia - to sit out, or suddenly the "favorite prime minister" will send to fight for "native land"! How so - they can kill such brave and fearless!

[Albay]

But you are talking about the Armenians from the "army of Karabakh", who in a very significant proportion are local

Again, you are mistaken, because you have stereotypes in your head. Most of the army of the so-called Karabakh was conscripts from Armenia, 70 percent.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

Again, you are mistaken, because you have stereotypes in your head. Most of the army of the so-called Karabakh was conscripts from Armenia, 70 percent.

How did you define this? They approached everyone and asked for documents? We saw how Armenian conscripts are fighting in Russia - in our markets, the number of these conscripts increased tenfold during the days of the conflict)))

[Albay]

How did you define this? They approached everyone and asked for documents?

This is well known and the Armenian side did not hide it. Basically, all the bodies from this sector of the front were sent to Armenia. Logic is enough. In total, according to the most optimistic estimates, a little more than 60 thousand people lived before the war. How many recruits could give?
I ask you not to argue for the sake of an argument or try to troll me)
I always take a very responsible attitude to what I say.
Best regards

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

This is well known and the Armenian side did not hide it.

The Armenian side just actively stated that there are only locals in the army of Karabakh.

Quote: Albay

Basically, all the bodies from this sector of the front were sent to Armenia.

And where else to send them? do not leave in place.

Quote: Albay

Just before the war, according to the most optimistic estimates, a little more than 60 thousand people lived. How many recruits could they give? Minor.

Depends on the structure of this very population. if there is under arms (for payment) all the suitable male population, then it is possible to assemble a very good army. Of course, she cannot defend all of Karabakh, but to strengthen it, you can transfer troops from Armenia itself.

Quote: Albay

I ask you not to argue for the sake of an argument or try to troll me)
I always take a very responsible attitude to what I say.
Best regards

I'm not trying to troll you in any way, I just ask questions, if I see contradictions, I apologize if there is any misunderstanding.

[VyacheSeymour]

Do not consider it impolite to interfere with your polemics with Albay, but your opponent is much closer to the truth ...

The Armenian side just actively stated that there are only locals in the army of Karabakh.

The son of the Armenian prime minister went to military service in Karabakh
Moscow.
July 9. INTERFAX.RU - The son of the Prime Minister of Armenia Ashot Pashinyan went to serve in the army on Monday.

"I wrote a statement that I intend to serve in Artsakh (the Armenian name of the unrecognized Nagorno-Karabakh - IF). I will serve on the front line. This is my decision, and it was made many years ago," Pashinyan told reporters at the assembly point ...
He also expressed confidence that there will be no differences between him and the rest of the military during the service.

In turn, his father Nikol Pashinyan, who also arrived at the assembly point, said that he was calm about his son's decision to serve in the unrecognized Nagorno-Karabakh Republic (NKR).
"My concern is no more and no less than concern about other servicemen. I have no right to take care of my son more than others," Pashinyan said.

[Albay]

Greetings to you Vyacheseymur!
The fact is that this was not considered something extraordinary in Armenia. Most of the conscripts were sent to Karabakh to ensure the equipping of the divisions located there, and that was not enough. We knew that they could not provide some posts with personnel. And on the border with Azerbaijan they were forced to to attract local violence to watch the posts for money, since there was no work in the villages anyway, then many agreed to earn money or to supplement their earnings, and employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs were also involved on duty.
Sincerely.

[VyacheSeymour]

And good health to you Albay!

The fact is that it was not considered something extraordinary in Armenia.

If a person is doing well with logic, then the talk about Armenia's non-participation in the war simply causes laughter ...
Armed Forces of Armenia about 45000,
Armed Forces of Karabakh 20000 ...
Total xnumx

At the initial stage of the war in Armenia, the figure in 10000 deserters ..., were naturally continued as the situation deteriorated.
Killed ~ 4000
Injured ~11000
Could get surrounded in Agdam, Martuni, Red Bazaar, Askeran, Stepanokert, Madagiz 25-30000
10000 were defeated and driven to Armenia in the southern sector along the border with Iran.
Order 10000continued resistance in Lachin and Kelbajar ...
Naturally, there was something in Armenia itself.
We add:
10000 + 4000 + 11000 + 25000 +
+ 10000 + 10000 ~ =70000
SEVENTY THOUSAND !!!!
WITH COMPARABLE with the one-thousandth (after mobilization) army of ten-million Azerbaijan in the amount of equipment and weapons ...
Yes, the hundred thousandth Karabakh fought,
well, Armenia did not come to the war!))))

[Albay]

Yes, the hundred thousandth Karabakh fought,
well, Armenia did not come to the war!))

Totally agree!
Each time I promise myself not to enter into polemics here with people who stubbornly deny the obvious, but cannot restrain themselves)))
I would not join, but I see that many of the users are trying to deceive themselves, as before the war, persistently wrote that the fighting spirit of the Armenians is very high and their Azerbaijanis will never win, and after the defeat they write about the inability of Armenians to learn or master technology.

[VyacheSeymour]

... as before the war, they persistently wrote that the fighting spirit of the Armenians is very high and their Azerbaijanis will never win, also after the defeat they write about the inability of the Armenians to learn or master technology.

People tend to pass off as their opinion imposed on them ... Solovyov and Co.
know their stuff ...

[Albay]

The Armenian side just actively stated that there are only locals in the army of Karabakh.

What do you think they should have said?
That 70 percent of the recruits are provided by Armenia and thereby show the failure of the pseudo-state? They naturally always tried to show the world that this is an independent and successful formation, but due to the fact that unrecognized Armenia represents its interests in the world. For those who live in this region, it is clear that it is not , the Armenians of Nagorno-Karabakh did not and could not have any resources to create a little bit of an army to resist.

[Albay]

I strongly doubt that the bayraktars that Azerbaijan acquired a few months before the conflict, and which were actively and clearly professionally used during the conflict itself, were operated by operators who had just learned ...

You should not doubt it, although I understand you, since you do not have complete information about the level of cooperation in the military industry of Azerbaijan and Turkey. In fact, for example, all Azerbaijani pilots were trained and trained to control, for example, Turkish f-16s, and the Turks also flew on su and flashes. hours of flight for Azerbaijani pilots on F-16 and this is a compulsory training program. For sure, for a long time, operators have been preparing for the management of bayraktar. specialist in this area of ​​the two-week course as a last resort!

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

You should not doubt it, although I understand you, since you do not have complete information about the level of cooperation in the military industry of Azerbaijan and Turkey. In fact, for example, all Azerbaijani pilots were trained and trained to control, for example, Turkish f-16s, and the Turks also flew on su and flashes. flight hours for Azerbaijani pilots on F-16 and this is a mandatory program

This has been known for a long time. There were many articles on this topic on VO.

Quote: Albay

How huge can the management of a bayraktar for a professional differ from, say, the same Kheron, which has been in service with the Azerbaijani army for a long time or any other?

The control of the tractors differs radically from the control of the herop. But I agree that in Turkey the operators of the bayraktars could have been prepared in advance. But it is still doubtful that all the operators were Azerbaijanis - judging by the personnel, the operators were already operating with combat experience, which means they were Turks.

[Albay]

The control of the tractors from the control of the herop is fundamentally different.

Are you a specialist?
I tell you that it is not fundamentally different.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Boxer

It is always pleasant to read the truthful reviews of Armenian eyewitnesses who saw everything with their own eyes.

You, dear, have obviously confused something - I am not an iota Armenian, I am half Jewish, half Russian)))) I do not sympathize with Armenia or Azerbaijan in this conflict - both sides are equally disgusting to me ... And I draw conclusions based on publicly available information - you can find it yourself.

[Albay]

Now Azerbaijanis are bragging about their victory.
Disgusting.

My condolences!)))

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

My condolences!)))

I am afraid that I will have to condole with the Armenian population of Karabakh ...

[Albay]

I am afraid that I will have to condole with the Armenian population of Karabakh ...

Do not be afraid))
Time will judge us)
You think in templates, we think for the future. I assure you that we will cope with this task even better.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

Do not be afraid))
Time will judge us)
You think in templates, we think for the future. I assure you that we will cope with this task even better.

If you manage, then everything is fine, let's hope that it will be so, and this conflict will eventually come to naught ...

[t00r]

come on more ... in general, the Azerbaijanis did not participate in the war, they generally removed everyone ... from how it will not pride itself on its racial exclusivity)))

[Konnick]

Now Azerbaijanis are bragging about their victory.
Disgusting.

The Armenians boasted about the first days.
I specially keep a video from an Armenian friend of mine posing against the background of the corpses of Azerbaijani soldiers.

[yaglon]

According to the video recordings, which were posted on YouTube and which were processed in the public domain, the losses of Armenia's air defense were (at least):
4 units PU 9P85S ZRS S-300PS, 1 unit PU 9P85D ZRS S-300PS, 3 units. SAM 2K12 "Cube", 3 units. SAM 2K11 "Circle", 5 units. SAM 9K332 "Tor-M2KM", 21 units. SAM 9K33 "Wasp", 3 units. SAM 9K35 "Strela-10", 11 units. ZSU-23-4 "Shilka", 4 units. ZSU-23-2, 5 units MANPADS 9K338 "Igla-S", 1 unit. MANPADS 9K310 "Igla-1";
1 unit BMP-1 with 23 mm ZU-23, 8 units. MT-LB with 57-mm charger S-60, 5 units. MT-LB with ZU-23, 35 units. MT-LB with a 20 mm charger;
1 unit Radar P-15, 2 units Radar P-18, 1 unit Radar P-19, 4 units Radar 36D6 from S-300PS, 1 unit Radar 19Zh6 from S-300PS,
2 units KP 5N63S from S-300PS, 1 unit. Radar SNR-125, 1 unit Radar 1S32 SAM 2K11, 2 units. 1S91 SAM 2K12;
2 units Electronic warfare and suppression of UAV "Repellent-1", 1 unit. jamming station R-330P "Pyramid-1".
Azerbaijan paid for this defeat of the air defense of Armenia (according to video recording on YouTube and finds of wreckage):
11 units An-2 aircraft (used in an unmanned version to break through air defense), 2 units. heavy drones Bayraktar TB2 UCAV, 24 units. light drones, incl. 1 unit reconnaissance UAV aircraft type ADS Aerostar, 1 unit loitering ammunition ADS Orbiter 1K, 11 units. loitering ammunition IAI Harop, 3 units. loitering ammunition Elbit SkyStriker, 8 pcs. light UAVs and other types of loitering ammunition.
Everything is in the public domain. Here it is necessary to draw conclusions. The Azerbaijanis had an excellent operation to overcome the air defense system, one can only envy.
And then - with a free sky, well, all the same we saw this rout.

[Albert1988]

Quote: yaglon

Everything is in the public domain. Here it is necessary to draw conclusions. The Azerbaijanis had an excellent operation to overcome the air defense system, one can only envy.

The question is - to envy what? Total unpreparedness of Armenia with active preparation of Azerbaijan by Turkey?

[yaglon]

The unpreparedness of the Soviet-style air defense, with which our ground and air defense systems are armed by 90 percent, to resist a sophisticated and skillful attack using UAVs.

[Albert1988]

Quote: yaglon

The unavailability of the Soviet-style air defense, with which our air defense and air defense systems are armed by 90 percent

Perhaps you wanted to say about the unavailability of "Soviet-style air defense, which in our country is already 90% in museums"? Do you even know what systems now form the basis of Russian air defense? If you think you are exactly the same. as in Armenia, then you are at least 20 years behind life
And most importantly, when out of 6 installations, 5 air defense systems do not corny work due to breakdowns, then there is not a big difference what kind of installations they are ...

Quote: yaglon

sophisticated and skillful UAV attack.

That is, an ordinary modern operation, competently planned and carried out by you is called "especially sophisticated" ... In this case, I recommend that you carefully familiarize yourself with the tactics of modern combat ...

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Albert1988

Do you even know what systems now form the basis of Russia's air defense?

What kind of air defense? From the Ministry of Defense agitation?
In the military air defense, as was the base of the Soviet technology, it remains. Beeches, wasps, arrows, tunguska. Torahs in the bulk of their old modifications, the Armenians had practically the last modification.

At least the S-400 base is in the VKS, but this is the same modernized S-300. There are too few shells.

Ground Forces:
long-range
185 S-300V S-300V4 (SA-23)

Medium range 350:
ε200 9K37M1-2 Buk-M1-2 (SA-11 Gadfly);
ε90 9K317 Buk-M2 (SA-17 Grizzly);
ε60 9K317M Buk-M3 (SA-27)

short-range
120+ 9K331 / 9K331M / 9K331MU Tor-M1 / M2 / M2U (SA-15 Gauntlet) (9M338 msl entering service)

Point-defense 1,050+:
250+ 2K22M Tunguska (SA-19 ​​Grison);
400 9K33M3 Osa-AKM (SA-8B Gecko);
400 9K35M3 Strela-10 (SA-13 Gopher);

Videoconferencing:
AIR DEFENCE SAM 222
Long range 186:
90 S-300PM1 / PM2 (SA-20 Gargoyle);
96 S-400 (SA-21 Growler)

Short-range 36 96K6 Pantsir-S1 (SA-22 Greyhound)

[Albert1988]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

In the military air defense, as was the base of the Soviet technology, it remains. Beeches, wasps, arrows, tunguska. Torahs in the bulk of their old modifications, the Armenians had practically the last modification.

Stupidity is rare - our wasps are almost removed from service, those that remain are deeply modernized, there is little left of the original wasp.
BUKs, TOPs, S-300 are deeply modernized, new versions are regularly purchased by the troops.

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Torahs in the bulk of their old modifications, the Armenians had practically the last modification.

These "old" ones underwent modernization a long time ago, several new TOPs were sold to the Armenians, what is the problem, that they did not know how to use them?

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

At least the S-400 base is in the VKS, but this is the same modernized S-300.

Calling the S-400 "modernization" of the S-300 is like calling the "Abrams" the modernization of the M-60 ...

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

long-range
185 S-300V S-300V4 (SA-23)

Medium range 350:
ε200 9K37M1-2 Buk-M1-2 (SA-11 Gadfly);
ε90 9K317 Buk-M2 (SA-17 Grizzly);
ε60 9K317M Buk-M3 (SA-27)

short-range
120+ 9K331 / 9K331M / 9K331MU Tor-M1 / M2 / M2U (SA-15 Gauntlet) (9M338 msl entering service)

Point-defense 1,050+:
250+ 2K22M Tunguska (SA-19 ​​Grison);
400 9K33M3 Osa-AKM (SA-8B Gecko);
400 9K35M3 Strela-10 (SA-13 Gopher);

Videoconferencing:
AIR DEFENCE SAM 222
Long range 186:
90 S-300PM1 / PM2 (SA-20 Gargoyle);
96 S-400 (SA-21 Growler)

Short-range 36 96K6 Pantsir-S1 (SA-22 Greyhound)

The data is more than dubious, what is the source?

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Albert1988

The data is more than dubious, what is the source?

Military Balance 2021. The most respected reference on the subject.

Quote: Albert1988

wasps are almost removed from service

They + Arrow 10, as they were, and remain the main means of the near zone of the air defense. Look for information, not just read propaganda campaigns.

Quote: Albert1988

These "old" ones have been modernized a long time ago

Life extension basically.

Quote: Albert1988

Calling the S-400 an "upgrade" of the S-300 is the same as calling the Abrams an upgrade of the M-60

Calling the S-400 an upgrade to the S-300 is like calling the M1A2 SEP v.3 an upgrade to the M1. The same fundamental differences, but this does not turn the S-400 into a completely new development. In the S-300V army, they did not change the digital index to 400, but simply added a four to the existing one (S-300V4). Although the changes are not less, if not more.

[Albert1988]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Military Balance 2021. The most respected reference on the subject.

And who dubbed him "the most respected"? And then somehow in the middle of the 90s I was looking for information about the number of the same T-2,5s, the "most authoritative" named one figure, only then it turned out that there were XNUMX times more of them ...

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

They + Arrow 10, as they were, and remain the main means of the near zone of the air defense. Look for information, not just read propaganda campaigns.

This information is strictly confidential, and if you consider the decision of the Ministry of Defense - "propaganda agitation" - the flag is in your hands, keep counting)))

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Life extension basically.

Oga, as well as a complete replacement of the electronic filling + new ammunition with a new electronic filling.

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Calling the S-400 an upgrade to the S-300 is like calling the M1A2 SEP v.3 an upgrade to the M1. The same fundamental differences, but this does not turn the S-400 into a completely new development. In the S-300V army, they did not change the digital index to 400, but simply added a four to the existing one (S-300V4). Although the changes are not less, if not more.

It is immediately evident that in this topic you, how to say it mildly, are not very much ...
Therefore, my advice to you - it is better not to argue on these topics.
Although after that "old man" that you wrote to me in another article for the political alignment, why am I surprised?

[OgnennyiKotik]

By the way, yes, there is an error, not everything was copied:

Ground Forces:
long-range
185 S-300V S-300V4 (SA-23)

Medium range 350:
ε200 9K37M1-2 Buk-M1-2 (SA-11 Gadfly);
ε90 9K317 Buk-M2 (SA-17 Grizzly);
ε60 9K317M Buk-M3 (SA-27)

short-range
120+ 9K331 / 9K331M / 9K331MU Tor-M1 / M2 / M2U (SA-15 Gauntlet) (9M338 msl entering service)

Point-defense 1,050+:
250+ 2K22M Tunguska (SA-19 ​​Grison);
400 9K33M3 Osa-AKM (SA-8B Gecko);
400 9K35M3 Strela-10 (SA-13 Gopher);

Strategic Missile Forces:
AIR DEFENCE SAM 222
Long range 186:
90 S-300PM1 / PM2 (SA-20 Gargoyle);
96 S-400 (SA-21 Growler)

Short-range 36 96K6 Pantsir-S1 (SA-22 Greyhound)

Videoconferencing:
AIR DEFENSE SAM 714:
Long range 584:
160 S-300PS (SA-10B Grumble); 150 S-300PM1 / PM2 (SA-20 Gargoyle); 20 S-300V (SA-12 Gladiator / Giant);
6 S-350 Vityaz (SA-28);
248 S-400 (SA-21 Growler)
medium-range
80 9K37M1-2 Buk-M1-2 / 9K317 Buk-M2 (SA-11 Gadfly / SA-17 Grizzly)
Short-range 50 96K6 Pantsir-S1 / S2 (SA-22 Greyhound)

Navy
Long-range 136: 56 S-300PM1 (SA-20 Gargoyle); 40 S-300PS (SA-10B Grumble); 40 S-400 (SA-21 Growler)
Short-range 12 96K6 Pantsir-S1 (SA-22 Greyhound)

Long-range 64 S-400 (SA-21 Growler)
Short-range 30: 18 96K6 Pantsir-S1 (SA-22 Greyhound); 12+ Tor-M2DT
Point-defense 70+: 20 9K33 Osa (SA-8 Gecko); 50 9K31 Strela-1 / 9K35 Strela-10 (SA-9 Gaskin / SA-13 Gopher);

[Albert1988]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

By the way, yes, there is an error, not everything was copied:

What does it change? If the data was taken from some unknown source, and even compiled on the basis of data for the rye years ...
And what do the two separate pieces of information about the fleet mean? Are they like different fleets? In general, porridge ...

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Albert1988

information on the fleet?

One for the Navy, the other for the Marine Corps. So download the guide and take a look. Located in 5 minutes.
Yes, and read about him, do not disgrace yourself.

[Albert1988]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

One for the Navy, the other for the Marine Corps. So download the guide and take a look. Located in 5 minutes.
Yes, and read about him, do not disgrace yourself.

If you are throwing information - please, throw it in a readable form!
And while here you are the only dishonor, dear, with such "profound" statements about the S-400, for example))))

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Albert1988

And while here you are the only dishonor, dear, with such "profound" statements about the S-400, for example))))

It amazes me that you do not know this and that you are exaggerating your ignorance.

Well, OK. Let's compare the complexes. S-400 and S-300PM2 (like the last one with the letter 300)

The S-400 complex (in brackets S-300PM2) includes:

Controls 30K6E (83M6E2) include:
* Radar detection 91N6E (64N6E2)
* control point 55K6E (54K6E2)
Anti-aircraft missile systems 98ZH6E (90ZH6E2), consisting of (up to 6 pcs.):
* Radar control 92N2E (30N6E2);
* Anti-aircraft missiles 48N6E3, 48N6E2, 48N6E of the existing S-300 air defense systems, including 9M96E2 and 9M96E missiles and 40N6E ultra-long-range missile;
* Launchers 5P85SE2 and / or 5P85TE2 (5P85SE, 5P85TE)


What we see. 100% identical architecture, the same launchers and missiles (with just the addition of 40N6E to the S-400, nothing prevents from doing this for the S-300). The controls and the radar have been modernized, but the letters show that they are a continuation of the existing ones.
In fact, the S-400 is the S-300PM2 with upgraded "electronics" and the addition of a new missile to the existing ones. The name S-300PM3 is more than suitable.

The S-300V, after the same deep modernization of "electronics" and missiles, was called the S-300V4.

[Albert1988]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

What we see. 100% identical architecture, the same launchers and missiles (with just the addition of 40N6E to the S-400, nothing prevents from doing this for the S-300). The controls and the radar have been modernized, but the letters show that they are a continuation of the existing ones.
In fact, the S-400 is the S-300PM2 with upgraded "electronics" and the addition of a new missile to the existing ones. The name S-300PM3 is more than suitable.

Dear, you again brought the data, but again you did not understand their meaning - The complex is only in the tenth place the external architecture, first of all it is the filling. The modernized S-300 is de facto the S-400 in the old building. The electronics there are already completely different, and the possibilities are also completely different, starting from the capabilities and range of the radar, and ending with the missiles used. And the fact that there is unification - so you say something about "the same chassis" as a proof of identity. Unification of PU is naturally there, why refuse it? The same "coalition" may well use old ammunition from "acacia".

[yaglon]

I used the adjective "sophisticated" for a reason. Where else have you seen in military history that the air defense system with the S-300 and the Torahs was rammed by maize men with explosives, from which the pilots were thrown out with parachutes? By the way, Russia has a lot of old and rusty maize growers that can take off once enough. Why not take this tactical technique into service? Then you will not have to lose the Tu-1M22, as it was on 3/09.08.2008/XNUMX in the area of ​​the village of Karbauli, when a much weaker Georgian air defense was broken through.

[Albert1988]

Quote: yaglon

I used the adjective "sophisticated" for a reason. Where else have you seen in military history that the air defense system with the S-300 and the Torahs was rammed with explosives maize, from which the pilots were thrown out with parachutes?

Because the theory of the use of false targets and various variations on the theme of "firefighters" has been known for a very long time.

Quote: yaglon

By the way, Russia has a lot of old and rusty maize growers that can take off once enough. Why not take this tactical technique into service?

It cannot be 100% asserted that something like this has not been worked out and is not being worked out in our country.

Quote: yaglon

Then you will not have to lose the Tu-22M3 as it was on 09.08.2008/XNUMX/XNUMX in the area of ​​the village of Karbauli during the breakthrough of a much weaker Georgian PV

Firstly, the operation in Karabakh was carefully and for a long time preparing. Secondly, in Georgia at 08.08, ours acted without preparation. Secondly, the weak Georgian air defense was significantly strengthened by BUKs from Ukraine, which were controlled by Ukrainian specialists, and the NATO radar in Turkey transmitted radar data to them, that is, these BUKs could not turn on their radar to the end, remaining invisible. By the way, the lack of such support from the Armenian air defense in Karabakh is one of the reasons for its complete defeat.

[Vlad Baryatinsky]

Quote: Albert1988

The question is - to envy what? Total unpreparedness of Armenia

Nobody forbade the Armenians with CRAZY money that their diaspora sent for 30 (THIRTY YEARS, KARL!), To master these sums for the benefit of "NKR".

Quote: Albert1988

With active preparation of Azerbaijan by Turkey?

And not only. There "lit up", Brits, Israelis, Paki.

[yaglon]

What does the Armenians have to do with the money? We are talking about the unavailability of air defense to reflect combined strikes. The Azerbaijanis cleverly used the An-2 to overload the Armenian air defense, purely military aspect. What packs? An-2 with explosives and with a pilot with a parachute as the main weapon for opening air defense. Then, according to the identified points, work with UAVs (with heavy - bombs, with light - control units or hitting the target by the UAVs themselves in Loitering Munition mode). Everything is so simple that the student understands. Outplayed.

[Albert1988]

Quote: yaglon

What does the Armenians have to do with the money?

Despite the fact that they did not pour this money into the army, which Azerbaijan did ...

Quote: yaglon

We are talking about the unavailability of air defense to reflect combined strikes. The Azerbaijanis cleverly used the An-2 to overload the Armenian air defense, purely military aspect.

And the Armenians for 20 years clapped their ears and rested on their laurels and were not ready for anything at all. Do you remember at least one adequate exercise of the Armenian army over the past 10-15 years?

Quote: yaglon

An-2 with explosives and with a pilot with a parachute as the main weapon for opening air defense.

You did not understand anything - this is a purely auxiliary tool, which served as a bait. And then the inept treatment of the Armenians with the air defense systems came into play.

Quote: yaglon

Then, according to the identified points, work with UAVs (with heavy - bombs, with light - control units or hitting the target by the UAVs themselves in Loitering Munition mode). Everything is so simple that the student understands. Outplayed.

Do you know why it is simple? Because the air defense is stuck somehow, the calculations are not trained (there are almost no exercises), the air defense installations do not change their deployment, half of the material part is corny faulty and the missiles just fall at the start without flying even a few meters ...
It's always easy with such an opponent ...

[yaglon]

That is, you blame everything on the fact that the conventional regular "Papuans" (Arabs, Iraqis, Syrians, Libyans, Armenians, and so on) are just bad warriors? Is it not a bad Soviet technique, which, like a Soviet car, constantly breaks down, just someone does not know how to keep it in working order by permanent repairs? But this is not the problem of the Arabs, but of the Soviet and Russian industry in general. Here you contradict yourself ... By the way, the Armenians are very good warriors, and in this war they showed themselves to be fearless fighters (there are almost no prisoners), who did not scatter under a hail of blows from Bayraktar, but retreated in an organized manner. And they had enough new technology, but the problem of the Armenians is not in MTO, but in tactics. They were preparing to fight in the 20th century, but the 21st century has come, in which there are already new tactics. The Roman legionnaire was also technically not superior to his opponents, but thanks to tactics he conquered half of the world. The analogy is obvious.

[Albert1988]

Quote: yaglon

Not a bad Soviet technique, which, like a Soviet car, constantly breaks down

Soviet technology breaks down only if you pull the color-meth off of it, as some citizens do very actively)))

Quote: yaglon

That is, you blame everything on the fact that the conventional regular "Papuans" (Arabs, Iraqis, Syrians, Libyans, Armenians, and so on) are just bad warriors?

Of course, otherwise how can you explain what the Saudis, armed with the best Western models, snatched from the bare-assed Houthis, armed with simply antediluvian Soviet weapons? Are American, German and French technology bad? How do you explain that while the "patriots" were controlled by the Saudi crews, they could not intercept the ancient "Elbrus" normally, but how the Americans sent their own - so everything worked fine, is this magic?

Quote: yaglon

knows how to keep it in working order by permanent repairs? But this is not the problem of the Arabs, but of the Soviet and Russian industry in general.

Dear, buy a good Japanese car, and put it in the rain, snow, outside, for many days. months, years, for some more citizens to pull out wiring on the color of meth. You will be very surprised - you will not start it. Is this car bad?
And yes - the industry has nothing to do with these problems! Operation of equipment always includes regular inspection, purchase of spare parts, and preventive maintenance. If the "Papuans" do not do this, it is NOT a manufacturer's problem. that's their problem. You can see for yourself on the Internet the stories of how the brave Egyptian pilots tried to fly on Soviet planes in factory lubricant with the flaps and rudders latches not removed ...

Quote: yaglon

By the way, the Armenians are very good warriors, and in this war they showed themselves to be fearless fighters (there are almost no prisoners), who, under a hail of blows from Bayraktar, did not scatter, but retreated in an organized manner.

You will decide what was there - and then some say that the Armenians fled flashing to everyone, otherwise they fought bravely and steadfastly ...
And most importantly - a good courageous fighter who does not run from positions, will not provide you with the normal functioning of complex equipment, if he simply does not know how to do it. Personal courage is one thing, technical creepiness is another thing.

Quote: yaglon

And they had enough new technology, but the problem of the Armenians is not in MTO, but in tactics. They were preparing to fight in the 20th century, but the 21st century has arrived, in which there are already new tactics.

Yes, they could not even carry out the normal tactics of the 20th century! Sitting in dugouts and trenches is, sorry, the First World War (as in the Donbass now), not even the second ...

Quote: yaglon

The Roman legionnaire was also technically not superior to his opponents, but thanks to tactics he conquered half of the world. The analogy is obvious.

The analogy is not entirely correct. Technically, the Roman legionnaire was, on average, better equipped than his opponents, plus - excellent training and very high organization!
By the way, it is the organization that is sorely lacking for all the "Papuans" you have designated! And the lack of organization leads in modern conditions, first of all, to the degradation of the technical part, which we observe among the Armenians ...

[Albay]

By the way, the Armenians are very good warriors and in this war they proved themselves to be fearless fighters (there are almost no prisoners) who, under a hail of blows from Bayraktar, did not scatter, but retreated in an organized manner.

Even as they fled, including the mountain village of Hadrut, which has also been a border fortified area since Soviet times, they fled after seeing special forces and left a few civilians at the mercy of the attackers.
They ran along the entire bank of the Araz River without looking back.

[Albay]

Armenians for 20 years clapped their ears and rested on their laurels and were not ready for anything at all. Do you remember at least one adequate exercise of the Armenian army over the past 10-15 years?

You are wrong. They constantly conducted exercises and carried out exercises in the framework of the ODKB plannova systematic with jointly with the Russian army. It's another matter how well they were prepared and what tasks they solved in what ways.
I am almost sure that the Armenian side hoped that in the event of the outbreak of hostilities, Russia and the world community would not allow it to continue for more than three days (first of all, of course, Russia), and the loss of small territories would be negligible so that it would be possible to continue meaningless negotiations for a long time. wasting time and forcing Azerbaijan to commit itself not to use force in resolving this conflict, which the OSCE co-chairs tried to demand for the last 5 years. That is why provocations were made. Then, of course, the political support of Turkey played a big role, which unequivocally stated that if a third party tries to get into the conflict, then they will see the Turkish army in front of them. For clarity, after the joint exercises, they left a pair of F-16s at military airfields.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

You are wrong. They constantly conducted exercises and carried out exercises in the framework of the ODKB plannova systematic with jointly with the Russian army. It's another matter how well they were prepared and what tasks they solved in what ways.

As they say, the most talented teacher will never teach someone who does not want to learn himself.
An example is the Georgian army, numbering 15000, which simply crumbled under the blows of 5000 of the Russian group, although the Georgians were taught and supplied by the Americans ...

Quote: Albay

I am almost sure that the Armenian side hoped that in the event of the outbreak of hostilities, Russia and the world community would not allow it to continue for more than three days (first of all, of course, Russia), and the loss of small territories would be negligible so that it would be possible to continue meaningless negotiations for a long time. wasting time and forcing Azerbaijan to undertake obligations not to use force in resolving this conflict, which the OSCE co-chairs tried to demand for the last 5 years. That is why provacations were made.

In fact, everyone is sure of this))) The Armenians generally believed that they could bark at Russia as they like, lick the Americans' ass, but Russia would fight for them. As a result, they became even more dependent on Russia.

Quote: Albay

Here, of course, the political support of Turkey played a big role, which unequivocally stated that if a third party tries to get into the conflict, they will see the Turkish army in front of them.

Well, if Russia got in, then Turkey would border on military advisers and military supplies. Against Russia in 2008 (when the army was in collapse), even the Americans were afraid to climb, not that much weaker Turks. On the other hand, if Russia did intervene, it would obviously intervene indirectly by military means, and would have stopped everything on the third day by diplomatic methods.

Quote: Albay

For clarity, after the joint exercises, they left a pair of F-16s at military airfields.

Americans also left a lot of things to Georgians, that is not the point, the point is that Azerbaijan had active support from its "elder brother", and Armenia had a demonstrative ignorance of its ...

[Albay]

Well, if Russia got in, then Turkey would border on military advisers and military supplies. Against Russia in 2008 (when the army was in collapse) even the Americans were afraid to climb, not that much weaker Turks.

It would not be limited and, apparently, the Russian leadership was unambiguously reported about this. As for the Americans, this is incomparable. For Georgia, in order for them to join, it was necessary to fine-tune the logistics at least. Turkey has logistics in this region and is very convenient. Our relations are more than politics in unlike amers with Georgians, and the Russian leadership is well aware of this.
Russia therefore intervened only with the supply of weapons and ammunition.

Azerbaijan had, on its part, the active support of its "elder brother", while Armenia had a demonstrative ignorance of its ...

Armenia did not have a blackout, day and night cargo planes delivered equipment and ammunition, under the guise of "building materials for the base"))) We do not have an older brother, we are Turks the same as the Turks in Turkey.

[Albay]

Total unpreparedness of Armenia with active preparation of Azerbaijan by Turkey?

well, who should have trained them. They are part of the CSTO, have a common air defense command with Russia, that is, good specialists help them in building defense. Before the war, the Armenian Defense Minister stated that they had a new concept: a new war, new territories!
Who is to blame for the fact that they were not ready for a modern war? The Azerbaijani army prepared perfectly and exemplarily for solving problems and solved its task!

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

well, who was supposed to cook them.

First of all, they had to prepare themselves! Americans at one time trained the Georgian army, the Iraqi army, the Afghan army - the result - all these armies failed by 100% when it came to real battles. All because they themselves did not want to prepare for anything!

Quote: Albay

They are part of the CSTO, have a common air defense command with Russia.

They enter, only now they dare to bark at Russia and lick the amers' sirloin parts, and even almost at the official level, Russia can be called an "occupier", will Russia help them after that? Moreover, the conflict is on the territory unrecognized by Russia.
And the general command - why on earth should the Russian command organize air defense for him, especially in Karabakh? And so they did it above the roof, then let them be cute ...

Quote: Albay

Before the war, the Armenian Defense Minister stated that they had a new concept: a new war, new territories!

The Armenians here generally stated a lot of things, the Pashinyan woman said so in general - one might think. that Armenia rules the world!

Quote: Albay

Who is to blame for not being ready for modern war?

They themselves were)))) The military budgets were sawing, it is not clear what they were buying from (for example, they bought wasps somewhere on the BV, heavily BU), and then grab it - half does not function, the calculations do not know how ...

Quote: Albay

The Azerbaijani army prepared perfectly and exemplarily for solving problems and solved its task!

For what honor and praise they are! We worked correctly in the right direction and I will notice it for many years!

[I am not a robot]

show 5 videos: According to the video recordings that were posted on YouTube and processed in the public domain, the destruction of 5 TOP SAM systems, otherwise it looks like nonsense (there is a video of the defeat of 1 Torah in a barn)

[Boxer]

Quote: Stirbjorn

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

And what about the Armenian air defense fighter aircraft that ... was absent as a class? And the station for the Far Air Situation ... too?

So Armenia did not officially fight ... the NRK army fought ... where did they get their fighters ?!

And where did the Armenians get the 5 shot down SU-25 (4 recognized by Armenia) belonging to the Air Force of the Republic of Armenia?

[yaglon]

Like as soon as 1 is confirmed.

[Albay]

Like as soon as 1 is confirmed

4 have already been confirmed, they just said at first that they themselves shot down, now they admit that they shot down the Azerbaijani air defense.
One crashed into a mountain, 4 were shot down.

[Boxer]

Quote: Stirbjorn

Quote: Yarasa

and whose su25 was shot down?)

Armenian Air Force ?! Are you out of your mind ?! Armenia did not officially fight with Azerbaijan, otherwise not only Karabakh would have been bombed

Yes, Armenia did not fight)) Are you from TNT by chance? You know better than Robert Kocharyan, Serge Sakisyan, generals Y. Khachaturov, L. Stepanyan)

1. Serzh Sargsyan stated: Armenia made an attempt to encircle the Azerbaijani forces and lost the best brigades of the reserve forces. "
Details: https://regnum.ru/news/polit/3193085.html
2. "During the war over Karabakh, the Armenian army shot down four of its planes and one helicopter by mistake."
Source:
Armenia Satellite https://ru.armeniasputnik.am/20210909/Rabota-nad-oshibkami-dlya-Armenii-sensatsionnye-itogi-voyny-ot-avtorov-Buri-na-Kavkaze-28950624.html
3. “Former Chief of the General Staff of the Armenian Armed Forces Yuri Khachaturov (ex. General Secretary of the CSTO) called the involvement of the first army corps of the Armenian Armed Forces in the very first days of hostilities a mistake. From the point of view of the former chief of the General Staff of the Armenian Armed Forces, this corps should have been kept in reserve. "
Source: https: //ru.armeniasputnik.am/politics/20210608/27848461/Khachaturov-nazval-glavnuyu-oshibku-kotoraya-privela-k-porazheniyu-v-Karabakhe.html
4. And this is the former Prime Minister G. Bagratyan: the army of Armenia is defeated, destroyed by 80%. An article by the Military Review with a statement by the former Prime Minister of Armenia:
"Former Prime Minister of Armenia: 80 percent of our army is not - this is a rout."
https://topwar.ru/177468-jeks-premer-armenii-80-procentov-nashej-armii-net-jeto-razgrom.html#comment-id-10999109
5. "It will take $ 3 billion to restore the army after the Karabakh war, Kocharian believes. To restore the army, he believes, is possible with the development of ties with Russia."
More details on RBC: https://www.rbc.ru/politics/04/03/2021/6040b0229a7947.
6. Major General L. Stepanyan about the Armenian deserters: "These are several tens of thousands of people, at least 10 thousand." As I understand it, this is more than the real male population of Nag. Karabakh (including babies and old people)

[Albert1988]

Quote: Boxer

"During the war over Karabakh, the Armenian army shot down four of its planes and one helicopter by mistake."

BOOOOOOO! This is a great quote! With this quote, you shed light on the most important thing - the level of training and organization of the Armenian air defense, as well as on the organization of the Armenian army in general, because it is necessary to be able to shoot down your planes by mistake in modern conditions. I understand if an enemy plane "covered" by "our" plane, but there were no such cases ...

[Albay]

[quote] BOOOOOOO! This is a great quote!
[/ quote
You yourself understand that this is nonsense))
Armenian planes were shot down by Azerbaijan's air defense systems, and one collided with a mountain, which they tried to pass off as the allegedly shot down Turkish F-16.
Krivoruk or not, but they still shot down one plane of the Azerbaijan Air Force, the pilot was killed.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

You yourself understand that this is nonsense))
The planes were shot down by Azerbaijan's air defense systems, and one collided with a mountain, which they tried to pass off as the allegedly shot down Turkish F-16.
Krivoruk or not, but they still shot down one plane of the Azerbaijan Air Force, the pilot was killed.

An old saying - "he never lies so much as after a hunt and during a war." One plane of the Azerbaijani Air Force could well have been shot down, with careless actions of the pilot, five planes of the Armenian Air Force could also have been shot down, with their careless actions. But I won't be surprised at all if it turns out that at least some of the downed Armenian planes are on account of their own air defense.

[Albay]

This was achieved by launching An-2 planes filled with explosives into the affected area, the pilots of which jumped out with a parachute, as well as reconnaissance drones

The video does not correspond to the text, it is completely different. The video tells about the land operation.
Here is a video about the breakthrough of the Armenian air defense and there is not a word about the parachutist pilots. AN-12 who were part of the Border Troops were unmanned. By the way, the author cited only one stage of the breakthrough using drones. The commander told about 4 stages and complex work on the breakthrough.
https://youtu.be/3yIR-fKpgaM

[yaglon]

Interesting video. So all the corn workers were simply converted into drones? And no parachutes?

[Albay]

Interesting video. So all the corn workers were simply converted into drones? And no parachutes?

According to the Air Force commander, they were unmanned and belonged to the Border Troops and no parachutes.

[Boxer]

Quote: Davtyan Robert

What an abomination. The Turks completely removed the Azerbaijanis from the command of the troops.
All drones were operated by Turkish operators from Turkey, Turkish pilots, as well as Israeli operators from Azerbaijan. Now Azerbaijanis are bragging about their victory.
Disgusting.

It is always pleasant to read the truthful reviews of Armenian eyewitnesses who saw everything with their own eyes. This is sarcasm, if anything)

[Boxer]

Quote: Albert1988

Quote: Boxer

"During the war over Karabakh, the Armenian army shot down four of its planes and one helicopter by mistake."

BOOOOOOO! This is a great quote! With this quote, you shed light on the most important thing - the level of training and organization of the Armenian air defense, as well as on the organization of the Armenian army in general, because it is necessary to be able to shoot down your planes by mistake in modern conditions. I understand if an enemy plane "covered" by "our" plane, but there were no such cases ...

Well, in fact, Armenia denied that the Armenians themselves shot them down, stating that in fact the Azerbaijani air defense was shot down by these 4 Armenian attack aircraft and a helicopter.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Boxer

Well, in fact, Armenia denied that the Armenians themselves shot them down, stating that in fact the Azerbaijani air defense was shot down by these 4 Armenian planes and a helicopter.

It is not clear there - at first the officials said that they were shot down by the Azerbaijanis, then the officers (in many respects former) opened up that they were shot down by the Armenians themselves. In any case, in Armenia in general and in the Armenian army in particular, a complete mess reigned and reigns ... That was the root cause of their defeat in this war ...

[Adler77]

Why was the last paragraph inserted? This is bullshit

[Boxer]

Quote: Adler77

Why was the last paragraph inserted? This is bullshit

That was my remark. My personal 5 kopecks)

[Suleiman]

Quote: Albert1988

And there is no need to drag Chechnya and the Crimean Tatars here

Well, okay, we will only drag in Azerbaijanis, who were shot at the doorstep of their homes in January 1990, as well as a million Azerbaijanis driven from their homes by the Armenians. And I will not speak at all about the Azerbaijani children welded in iron pipes by the Armenians. Sit thousands of kilometers away from us and eat exactly what you are given. Do not judge and you will not be judged.

[Suleiman]

Quote: Albert1988

Quote: Suleyman

By the way, according to the National Academy of Sciences of Azerbaijan (ANAS) In 1283, the Swedes entered Lake Ladoga on the Neva, killed Novgorodians - Obonezh merchants and shot down 45 S-70 Okhotnik UAVs.

"Sometimes chewing is better than talking" (old gum ad)

Here you also chew for a long time, it's time to swallow already.

[Suleiman]

Quote: Albert1988

Quote: Davtyan Robert

What an abomination. The Turks completely removed the Azerbaijanis from the command of the troops.
All drones were operated by Turkish operators from Turkey, Turkish pilots, as well as Israeli operators from Azerbaijan. Now Azerbaijanis are bragging about their victory.
Disgusting.

It is highly doubtful. that from Turkey and Israel, but the fact that the Turkish operators "taxied" bayraktar and other drones (which the Azerbaijanis did not manage to master) from Azerbaijan itself is a fact that is almost not hidden.

Yeah, as the Armenians said: Azerbaijanis cannot fight, this is a nation of traders))) Now it turned out that Azerbaijanis cannot control joysticks either
Enjoy your viewing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjul1KQg5N0

[Albert1988]

Quote: Suleyman

Yeah, as the Armenians said: Azerbaijanis cannot fight, this is a nation of traders)))

Armenians and Azerbaijanis stand against each other, in about everything ... Including in the exaltation of themselves by eagles and humiliation of the opposite side with rams ...

[Suleiman]

Quote: ab111

You are broadcasting someone else's opinion.
I am Russian and I lived there and was in those very years. There was a completely different attitude towards Russians and Jews than you write here. We lived in Baku until 98. I served in the Azerbaijani army, my relatives worked at Azerbaijani enterprises. Nobody tried to kick us out. In 1994, they gave me an apartment from the housing stock of the Azerbaijani army, as an officer.

A comrade has just a gift agitation, it is necessary to expose the "bloodthirsty Azerbaijanis" here))

[Albert1988]

Quote: Suleyman

A comrade has just a gift agitation, it is necessary to expose the "bloodthirsty Azerbaijanis" here))

There is no need to expose you - we have heaped up enough, spilled blood, both your own and Armenian, and with the fanaticism of madmen, you rush to cut each other ... Alas - the bitter truth ...

[Albay]

There is no need to expose you - we have heaped up enough, spilled blood, both your own and Armenian, and with the fanaticism of madmen, you rush to cut each other ... Alas - the bitter truth ...

This is an absolute lie.
You were just born then, but I saw everything with my own eyes.
I have written here more than once that in Sumgait one of the organizers of the pogroms of the Armenians was the Armenian Eduard Grigoryan, who killed in a group of 6 Armenians and raped the Mejlumyan sisters. There is a documentary film "Echo of Sumgayit" where this is described in detail. Azerbaijan. The investigation was conducted by investigators from Moscow, they identified 6 Armenians who participated in the pogroms of the Armenians.
Also, 6 out of 26 Azerbaijanis were killed. Why did the pogroms begin there? Because about 100 thousand Azerbaijanis were expelled from Armenia and the leadership of the USSR sent them to Sumgait, a young city where there were many people of convicted settlers and where the criminal operational situation was always difficult. no need to lie. They lived and live the same way as Azerbaijanis. Mostly the families of officers fled after the Soviet army staged a massacre in the streets of Baku in January 90th. I remember one woman who occupied a very high position in one of the ministries and her speech on Soviet TV where, without batting an eye, she told how she had to run away in one dressing gown, although I personally saw her leaving after selling the apartment at a profit. Two years later, this woman returned and now holds a key position in the same ministry.
So do not lie and talk about what you do not know for sure.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Albay

You were just born then, but I saw everything with my own eyes.

Dear, I personally know a lot of people who, at that time, saw everything with their own eyes, no worse than you, and experienced "tolerance and friendliness" on themselves ...

Quote: Albay

Mostly the families of officers fled after the Soviet army staged a massacre in the streets of Baku in January 90.

Yes, yes, yes, of course, a direct massacre ...
Arrange the Soviet army then "massacre" - Azerbaijan would now be a subject of the Russian Federation, and not an independent state ...
If the USSR had acted in that period the way you attribute it, it would not have collapsed, because all the "samastia" people would have been quickly driven under the bunk. And they would live now peacefully, without blood and murder.

Quote: Albay

I remember one woman who held a very high position in one of the ministries and her speech on Soviet TV where, without batting an eye, she told how she had to flee in one dressing gown, although I personally saw how she left, having previously sold her apartment at a profit.

And I personally know a woman who, while working in the ministry, was thrown out of her apartment by the "poor indigenous people" with her daughter, husband and elderly mother. The apartment was returned to them only in the area of ​​2010, having evicted the squatters who lived there quietly, and they had to sell it for half the market price ...

[Albay]

Dear, I personally know a lot of people who, at that time, saw everything with their own eyes, no worse than you, and experienced "tolerance and friendliness" on themselves ...

They lie to you and brazenly.

- yes, yes, of course, a direct massacre ...
Arrange the Soviet army then "massacre" -

of course the massacre and Azerbaijan before this massacre and was not going to leave the USSR, she pushed the people to independence.

I personally know a woman who, while working in the ministry, was thrown out of her apartment by the "poor indigenous" with her daughter, husband and elderly mother. The apartment was returned to them only in the area of ​​2010, having evicted the squatters who lived there quietly, and they had to sell it for half the market price ...

They lie to you again.
In those years, it was not the indigenous people who seized my apartment, but the refugees, it was empty, and they took advantage of first asking to spend the night, and then three families barricaded themselves there and seized many of the indigenous people ... By court and according to documents, it was always mine, but because of them the fact that they did not evict the refugees. About 7-8 years ago, they began to evict and move into new apartments. I returned my apartment last year. So let your personal friend not complain. She got everything she could. I will repeat it mainly from the families of officers ( because they were afraid of revenge for the atrocities committed in January 90) and those who worked in good positions, because they knew that the NF, having come to power, would simply remove them. To get a good place in Moscow, they wrote that they were kicked out. do they live, work, serve and no one kicked them out? Selectively only your acquaintances were kicked out?
You should be ashamed.

[Suleiman]

Quote: Albert1988

But the ethnic Armenians' neighbors were killed, and brutally ...
What kind of pogroms were there, when crowds of "titular" (a characteristic feature - everyone in brand new leather jackets) pounded through the streets and beat to death everyone who came across who "was of the wrong nationality" ...

Absolute lie!

[Albert1988]

Quote: Suleyman

Absolute lie!

Yes, yes, it is. In their bloody madness, the Armenians and Azerbaijanis have developed an excellent ability to multiply the crimes of the opposing side tenfold and nullify their own ...

[Suleiman]

Quote: Albay

pilots who jumped out with a parachute, as well as reconnaissance drones. =

Э
This is the fiction of the author and his fantasies.
In fact, in the video, the commander says that the AN-2s were unmanned.
2. In case the command's intention was unraveled, these aircraft were loaded with explosives and bombs and were sent to the enemy military targets predetermined.

Alibek, that's right. Takeoff was carried out with the help of the pilot. On approaching the front line, the pilot jumped out of the plane. Further, the An-2 autonomously, that is, through the MCC from the nearest airfield (perhaps just from another place), it was guided to the monitoring area. There were also explosives on board.

[yaglon]

What's the point? Why was it impossible for An-2 to take off unmanned, why is a pilot needed if external control is still installed?

[Suleiman]

Quote: Albert1988

What does the Armenians have to do with the money?

Despite the fact that they did not pour this money into the army, which Azerbaijan did ...

And why do they need money, they have a SPIRIT!

[Albert1988]

Quote: Suleyman

And why do they need money, they have a SPIRIT!

Well, the "spirit" we saw them, as it turned out, the "spirit" does not know how to shoot down drones, but you need to know how to use air defense ...

[xomaNN]

Of course, the Armenian air force personnel are still specialists. Identify the An-2 slug and spend expensive missiles on it instead of the FORA rounds? And open ALL your positions from these flights, without changing the positions of the duty officers of the air defense missile systems that have already fired off?

[yaglon]

You are a good zentiter, apparently. Many UAVs were shot down personally and in a group?

[Albay]

Of course, the Armenian air force personnel are still specialists. Identify the An-2 slug and spend expensive missiles on it instead of the FORA rounds? And open ALL your positions from these flights, without changing the positions of the duty officers of the air defense missile systems that have already fired off?

In an interview, the Air Force Commander talks about a comprehensive solution.
Simultaneously with the launch of the AN-2, the Azerbaijani Air Force simulated massive attacks on the Armenian positions without entering the affected area. In addition, these AN-2s were loaded with explosives and bombs and aimed at military targets in case the Armenians did not shoot down these planes.

[svoit]

Quote: Yarasa

260 drones))) tin. Along the way, there is zero extra.

under drones, of course, all UAVs are considered, that is, both kamikazde and AN-2

[Azimuth]

Quite interesting material was given by the Azerbaijanis, the most important thing is accurate and without a fog of propaganda. Many did not understand its background. We, Armenia, the USA, Iran and many EU countries, were well aware of the beginning of the war. In Armenia, they are asking themselves why we, Russia, didn’t help them. They helped in any way they could and somewhere apparently counted on dividends from the defeat of Azerbaijan, as our side believed. In a short time, we transferred a colossal volume of military cargo not only by dry land through Iran, but also a huge number of flights of our military aviation was carried out, a lot of money was spent on all this. And all this happened in front of the whole world, as a result, the defeat of Armenia turned out not only to huge damage to its army, the army of the CSTO member state, but also to huge reputational losses for us, Russia.
Consider the following points:
1. Air defense officers of the Russian Federation, Armenia and air defense units of the Azerbaijan Air Force, in most cases, this is one school, our Soviet / Russian. But despite the fact that initially the base is the same, the level of training and professionalism of the latter turned out to be much higher, and here it was not without NATO, primarily Turkey. The officers of the Azerbaijani Air Force undergo training with us, in our schools and training centers. Accordingly, they perfectly know the organization and the air defense system of Russia, and, accordingly, of Armenia. But they also received knowledge about modern methods, ways of combating our air defense in the framework of NATO education, training and exercises, cooperation with Israel.
As a result, the Azerbaijan / Turkey tandem essentially defeated Armenia / Russia in a pure tandem. But this is half the trouble, the trouble is that in Karabakh, only a part of the methods of modern warfare, which by the way are well known to us, were tested and demonstrated, and it showed our complete unpreparedness for it.
2. A theater of military operations, an area with difficult terrain, but very small. When we mention "Karabakh", we mistakenly imagine a territory as large as our region. In fact, the whole of Azerbaijan, which is the largest of the three Transcaucasian republics, is smaller than many of our regions. Not only the Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Okrug itself, but all the regions occupied by Armenia around it, together with it it is only ONE region of any of our regions and not the largest.
The forces and means indicated on the map of the Commander of the Azerbaijan Air Force, air defense systems, plus hundreds of artillery memory on the MTLB / BMP chassis, Igla / Verba MANPADS, large-caliber DShK / NSV, electronic warfare systems to cover such a territory and with such a relief, according to traditional estimates for us, was more than enough. Such opinions and assessments have formed false confidence in the political and military leadership of Armenia.
3. Contrary to the stories about the host of attack UAVs, as we see in reality, Azerbaijan actively used its manned aircraft armed with MiG-29, Su-25, Mi-24/35 and Mi-8/17. And these samples, and attack UAVs like the Israeli Harop are not the latest types of air attack weapons, this is a technique developed at the beginning of the second half of the last century. But in some cases, either more modern guided weapons were used like the same ATGM Spike NLOS with a firing range of up to 30 km (!), Or non-trivial approaches, as in the case of the Su-25, which performed flights and dropping corrected bombs from high altitudes, 8000-9000m inaccessible for the main part of the Armenian military air defense systems.
The Azerbaijanis used An-2 airplanes as decoys, the so-called. "Corners", on the principle of "cheap and cheerful", I can be mistaken, but a modern Western missile imitating a target and creating the required signature is much more expensive. The same is true if we talk about airborne reconnaissance systems and anti-radar missiles, the use of UAVs like Harop was much cheaper.
And if we try everything on our air defense and taking into account that our probable friends will be richer than oil micro-banning? ...
4. The electronic warfare is a double-edged sword, as a result of the actions of the Azerbaijani electronic warfare forces, the Armenians shot down several of their Su-25s, and our electronic warfare systems, which the Armenian Armed Forces had and deployed in Karabakh, managed, according to various sources, to land the Turkish Bayraktar TV-2 for a couple of days. useless against Israeli UAVs, and in the end they were also destroyed by them.
5. It is a false statement that Armenia was unprepared, the Armenian servicemen were lacking in initiative, showed cowardice, and so on. A simple example of how the Armenian anti-aircraft gunners were able to quickly adapt to the changed situation, showed initiative, we can see in one of the Azerbaijani video clips with the destruction of the Tor-M2KM air defense system.
On the face of it, the fact that our system and methodology are outdated, we, the Armenians here are more extras, put our foreheads on the table, but we, with the obsession of suicide, continue, instead of accepting conclusions and actions, look for flaws in the Armenians, naively believing that all our calculations and air defense officers in the general mass will be of better quality or better prepared and equipped. The school is the same, the Armenians study and shoot with us, prepare according to our methods, their air defense is, in the end, part of the united air defense.

PS Gentlemen and comrades, and no one now comes to mind, why have the Ukrainians' assessments changed so much? ... After all, the whole experience was analyzed, not only air defense ... and one should not naively assume that the Ukrainians got sick just because they bought a couple of Bayraktar TV-2 ...

[yaglon]

Though vaguely presenting, but to the point. Soviet tactics completely failed in the VHV. Fresh tactics, invented somewhere by Turks / Jews, somewhere simply impromptu of Azerbaijanis, brought military success.

[Albert1988]

Quote: yaglon

Soviet tactics completely failed in the VHV.

Only now the Azerbaijanis were armed by 80% of the same "Soviet technology" and did not fail. For some reason, many still cannot understand - technology does not fight - people fight, if people do not know how to use their technology, they will lose. those who know how to use their own will win, even if their technique is worse than that of an opponent who does not know how to handle his advanced technique (for example, the Houthis and Saudis). In the case of Armenia and Azerbaijan, on the side of the former there was a complete inability to tactics and organization of the army as a system, on the side of the latter there was a high level of training and organization.

[Vissarion Golubov]

Yes, there is something to think about, a lot of things need to be changed in air defense. This is true, but no one seriously thought of harnessing after Pashinyan's tricks. About the conflict in Karabakh. 3-5 days ,, Syrian carousel ,, Strategic Aviation, BA,
KR, OTR and the front would have moved back. At the same time, they would have smashed the bulky vans with antenna facilities, from which the UAV was controlled. Of course, it is very important that the reconnaissance works well and quickly conducts reconnaissance before ... This option is strongly feared by Ukraine ...

[Albay]

Quite interesting material was given by the Azerbaijanis, the most important thing is accurate and without a fog of propaganda. Many did not understand his background.

I absolutely agree with your opinion and with your conclusions. Sober analysis of the situation.

[Boxer]

Quote: Albert1988

Quote: ab111

You are broadcasting someone else's opinion.
I am Russian and I lived there and was in those very years. There was a completely different attitude towards Russians and Jews than you write here. We lived in Baku until 98. I served in the Azerbaijani army, my relatives worked at Azerbaijani enterprises. Nobody tried to kick us out. In 1994, they gave me an apartment from the housing stock of the Azerbaijani army, as an officer.

This is the opinion of people who were there in the early 90s, who were not lucky enough to be in the thick of it. For example, a family of our acquaintances was simply thrown out of their own homes! Just like that, the "title" came and said. that they are occupiers and all that, and now "locals" will live here. Well at least they were allowed to pick up the essentials. But the ethnic Armenians' neighbors were killed, and brutally ...
What kind of pogroms were there, when crowds of "titular" (a characteristic feature - everyone in brand new leather jackets) pounded through the streets and beat to death everyone who came across who "was of the wrong nationality" ...
People did not invent this, people witnessed this situation. The fact that you were so arranged there is very lucky for you ...

Your alleged acquaintances are lying. Is your acquaintance accidentally not the Aramo-Gabrielyan "Constantinople" and similar arm.resources promoting someone else's agenda under pseudo-Russian names?
Tales invented and disseminated by Armenian garbage sites and propagandists. They do not particularly bother themselves with proofs and testimonies, they just lie recklessly - a bizarre mixture of Arsrun Hovhannisyan with Pegov.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Boxer

Your alleged acquaintances are lying. Is your acquaintance accidentally not the Aramo-Gabrielyan "Constantinople" and similar arm.resources promoting someone else's agenda under pseudo-Russian names?
Tales invented and disseminated by Armenian garbage sites and propagandists. They do not particularly bother themselves with proofs and testimonies, they just lie recklessly - a bizarre mixture of Arsrun Hovhannisyan with Pegov.

You dear. before writing such nonsense - take an interest in the subject. My friends are one family, half Azerbaijanis, half Jews, my wife is a biologist, my husband is a philosopher by education. Their parents are doctors and administrative workers.
The second family is the daughter of an engineer, the parents are also an engineer. This is an ordinary Soviet intelligentsia. The first family fled from Baku when they were simply thrown out of the apartment into the street by locals in leather jackets and threatened with reprisals. In the second family, the daughter left for the RSFSR even before all the events - she married a military man, and then they took their parents out of Baku, because they began to squeeze them out of their homes in the same way ... Well, they were all witnesses of what they were doing with the locals Armenians ... Beatings right on the streets to a pulp is the most innocent.
So listen to "tsargrad" less and listen to people more.

[Boxer]

Quote: Albert1988

Quote: Boxer

Your alleged acquaintances are lying. Is your acquaintance accidentally not the Aramo-Gabrielyan "Constantinople" and similar arm.resources promoting someone else's agenda under pseudo-Russian names?
Tales invented and disseminated by Armenian garbage sites and propagandists. They do not particularly bother themselves with proofs and testimonies, they just lie recklessly - a bizarre mixture of Arsrun Hovhannisyan with Pegov.

You dear. before writing such nonsense - take an interest in the subject. My friends are one family, half Azerbaijanis, half Jews, my wife is a biologist, my husband is a philosopher by education. Their parents are doctors and administrative workers.
The second family is the daughter of an engineer, the parents are also an engineer. This is an ordinary Soviet intelligentsia. The first family fled from Baku when they were simply thrown out of the apartment into the street by locals in leather jackets and threatened with reprisals. In the second family, the daughter left for the RSFSR even before all the events - she married a military man, and then they took their parents out of Baku, because they began to squeeze them out of their homes in the same way ... Well, they were all witnesses of what they were doing with the locals Armenians ... Beatings right on the streets to a pulp is the most innocent.
So listen to "tsargrad" less and listen to people more.

You know, believability problems start with the details. Confused by your (your friends) revolutionary paraphernalia allegedly attributed to the pogromists. Leather jackets and other similar entourage from another era and ideology in general) The revolutionary aesthetics of the Bund activists, which quickly took root among the Russian Bolsheviks in the years of the revolution and after, is completely alien to Baku in the 90s, and therefore causes bewilderment. In any case, the mass deaths of civilians in Baku (many died in their homes as a result of random shooting) when the SA units entered Baku in January 1990, probably also requires reflection and sympathy.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Boxer

revolutionary paraphernalia allegedly attributed to the pogromists. Leather jackets and other similar entourage from another era and ideology in general)

These are not "revolutionary paraphernalia" - these are criminal paraphernalia of the late 80s - early 90s.

Quote: Boxer

The revolutionary aesthetics of the Bund activists, which quickly took root among the Russian Bolsheviks in the years of the revolution and after, is completely alien to Baku in the 90s, and therefore causes bewilderment.

Nothing of the kind, what kind of Bolsheviks? And what do leather jackets and pieces of reinforcement have to do with the Bolsheviks? Typical bandits. well organized, pre-arranged and paid.

Quote: Boxer

In any case, the mass deaths of civilians in Baku (many died in their homes as a result of random shooting) when the SA units entered Baku in January 1990, probably also requires reflection and sympathy.

Yes, yes, yes, in Moscow, probably, too, the SA shot at people? Did the "golden eagle" shoot at the protestants on the 2013 Maidan? By the way, this is a very important detail - incomprehensible snipers sitting on the roofs and shooting at the peaceful people in order to infuriate the people ... A very familiar picture ...