Military Review

The first weapon of Homo sapiens. How did Cain kill Abel?

516

How did Cain's enmity with Abel begin? But from this ... "The Sacrifice of Cain and Abel", painting in 1510 Artist Mariotto Albertinelli (1474-1515)


And Cain said to Abel his brother: [Let us go into the field]. And when they were in the field, Cain rose up against his brother Abel and killed him.
Genesis 4:8

History weapons. Everyone, even people who are absolutely non-believers, of course, know the biblical legend about the first murder on Earth. Describing what happened in legal terms of today, we can say that between the blood brothers Cain and Abel, on the basis of personal hostility caused by certain preferences received by Abel from the Lord God, he decided to kill him and, being with his brother in the field, fulfilled his plan ... This is how the first crime in the history of mankind was committed, connected with the murder of one person by another. But here's what's interesting: for some reason, in the Bible, which usually gives a lot of all kinds of details, the description of this event is extremely short. Moreover, it does not name the murder weapon, and this is very strange.

The fact is that other types of weapons of that time are mentioned in the Bible very often. For example, a knife is mentioned 5 times; sword 194; spear 34 times; bow 45 times; sling - 4; poleaxe - 3; club - only 1 time. That is, judging by the frequency of mentions of types of weapons in the text of the holy book, then it was the sword that was at that time the most popular and widely used weapon.

The first weapon of Homo sapiens. How did Cain kill Abel?
15th century miniature. Even then, people were preoccupied with finding out why Cain killed his brother Abel?

But could it be written that Abel was hacked to death with a sword? Probably not, because the sword is a warrior's weapon, and with whom could Cain fight at that time? That is, both brothers were peaceful people, which also follows from the description of their occupations - Abel is a shepherd, and Cain is a farmer. Further surprising: "And the Lord looked upon Abel and on his gift, but on Cain and on his gift he did not look. Cain was greatly upset, and his face drooped". Why would God have such a favor to one of the brothers and a negative attitude towards the other? That is, the Lord himself provoked this conflict, which might not have flared up if his attitude towards the brothers were the same.


Cain and Abel. "Master Bertram". Grabovsky altar from 1379, made for the church of St. Peter in Hamburg (now it is in the Kunsthalle in Hamburg)

But let us not blame the Lord, for his ways are inscrutable, and what he wanted to achieve by committing such an injustice, we will never know. Unless he penetrated into the soul of Cain, saw that he was a "bad man" and decided to finally make sure of this, leaving him a little free will, which he used for ... murder.


Cain and His Family, 1585 by Paolo Veronese (1528-1588). Here he has a heavy club in his hand ...

In this case, we are more interested in the question of the weapon with which this murder was committed. If this is not a sword, not a spear, and not a club, then how else can you kill a person in the field, moreover, a shepherd, that is, a person accustomed to physical labor? Firstly, Cain, having rebelled against Abel, could get up from the ground where they both were sitting, take a stone in his hand and ... take his brother's life with a blow to the temple. So, the first contender for the murder weapon is an ordinary stone.


Panel of the Ghent Altarpiece, 1432 Jan van Eyck (c. 1385-1441)

Both the one and the other could walk with a staff. This was customary in primitive societies. With a staff in hand, young David goes to battle with Goliath. By the way, the word "staff" occurs in the Bible 6 times. So not only the shepherd Abel could have the staff, but also the evil envious Cain, who could well have started it only because Abel had it, but he, Cain, did not! And so he beat him with a staff!


Classics of the genre: "The Bible by Gustave Dore in illustrations"

Or maybe stabbed to death with a knife? The knife could, most likely, be just with Abel. After all, he was the shepherd, not Cain.


One of the earliest depictions of the scene "Cain kills Abel", mosaic of the main nave of the Cathedral of the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary in Montreal, between 1183 and 1189, Sicily, Italy

Did he beat him with a truncheon or just strangle him? It is also quite possible, but ... not proven!

That is, the question of how Cain killed Abel remains open for thousands of years. But people constantly tried to give an answer to it, and first of all they were artists, people creative and with imagination. Let's return once again to the conversation about the direct weapon of this murder. The Bible describes this episode with just one phrase: “And when they were in the field, Cain rebelled against his brother Abel and killed him". Therefore, the artists were completely free to choose any weapon, conceiving the composition of their paintings. And here's what is interesting: nowhere, in any of the paintings or anywhere else, Cain does not kill his brother with his bare hands - the artist necessarily draws some object, in addition, Baroque artists usually depicted the brothers naked. Well, yes - they wanted to show the beauty of the human body. But, most likely, they wanted by this to emphasize the antiquity of what was happening, and that Abel and Cain belonged to primitive creatures who had just begun to use some kind of tools.


And at first everything was in an amicable way. But then ... "Cain and Abel are working in the field", 17th century. Willem van Herp the Elder (1614-1677)


And then they decided to make a sacrifice ... "The Sacrifices of Cain and Abel", Willem van Herp the Elder (1614-1677)

But let's look at the murder weapons they depicted: Daniel Crespi "Cain kills Abel", 1620 (cudgel), Peter Paul Rubens "Cain kills Abel", 1608-1609. (club), Luca Giordano, "Cain kills Abel", 17th century. (animal jaw), Filippo Vitale, "Cain kills Abel", 17th century. (scapula of an animal), Per Francesco Mazzushelli, "Cain and Abel", 17th century. (cudgel), Michel Coxie, Death of Abel, 1539-1550 (again the jaw), Alessandro Rosi, "Cain and Abel", 17th century. (again the jaw, lying next to the body).


"Cain kills Abel", 1760-1780 Gaetano Gandolfi (1734-1802)

It is interesting that the jaw, as the instrument of Cain's murder of Abel, was mentioned in religious books. Although it is difficult to imagine how this can be written beyond what is written in the Bible ?! But there is, for example, a very early literary source where the jawbone of a donkey is the instrument of this murder - a commentary from the XNUMXth century AD. to the book of Genesis "The Canterbury School of Theodore and Hadrian." Later, this story about the jaw began to appear in many Christian commentaries on the Bible and collections of legends, which, of course, looks pretty ... stupid. For who of the people who lived then could boast of having received a revelation from God, and even on such an important issue. Although ... "special" people have always been.


Abraham Bloomart (1564-1651), 1590s

However, the people of the New Age quite early got acquainted with Hesiod's poem "Works and Days" and could well have learned from it the idea of ​​successive centuries: gold, silver, copper and iron.

They had copper armor and copper dwellings,
Copper work done: no one knew about the iron.
(Hesiod. Works and days)


The first page of the edition of "Works and Days" in ancient Greek with a parallel Latin translation. Basel, 1539

«There will be no more love between brothers, as it once happened"- Hesiod writes about the people of the Iron Age, but ... he does not speak anywhere about tools made of stone. That is, the stone tools were unfamiliar to him, just as they were unfamiliar to later painters. Therefore, in art canvases, we do not find images of Cain killing Abel with a stone ax. But the primitivism of their existence was already felt by them quite clearly and, whenever possible, they were emphasized by the depiction of the most primitive instruments of murder!


Cain and Abel. Reynold Begas (1831-1911), bronze, 1895 German Historical Museum

The most common, judging by the paintings of the masters of the 16-17 centuries, were the club and the jaw of a donkey, since it is mentioned in the text of the Bible as a weapon of Samson, who beat the Philistines with it. That is, it is obvious that the artists familiar with this passage from the Bible believed that if Samson used the jaw of a donkey, then ... what prevented Cain from using it? Whether this is true or not, whether this judgment is true or wrong, it is impossible to say now, but the fact that the donkey's jaw in the hands of Cain is found in the paintings even more often than the club is undoubtedly.


Flint dagger from Hindsgawl. Found in 1876 in the Hindshavl district, it is a national treasure of Denmark and is recognized as one of the finest examples of stone weapons ever made by human hands. Made of pink flint. The length is about 30 cm, the thickness is less than a centimeter in the blade part. Depicted on the 100 CZK Danish banknote. National Museum of Denmark, Copenhagen

It is interesting that modern artists are not interested in biblical subjects. It's a pity! One can imagine a whole series of paintings masterfully depicting the human bodies of Cain and Abel, and different options for killing the latter. On one of the canvases, he kills his brother with a stone, on the other, he cunningly strangles him from the back, on the third, he hammers him with a staff, on the fourth ... he snatches a flint dagger typical of the Stone Age and plunges it into Abel's chest.


You can give Cain in his hand and such a dagger, simpler. Also found in Denmark. National Museum of Denmark, Copenhagen

Why not use the sharp horn of an antelope or a mountain goat? In the era of primitive tools of labor, this could well have been. And it would be quite possible to dress both of them in clothes made of skins, similar to the clothes of the heroes of the movie "Million Years BC".


Stone axes (they are also suitable for hoes!) Of the end of the Neolithic era, approx. 3000-1800 biennium BC. Toulouse Museum, France

Moreover, if we are talking about the tools of labor of exactly two brothers, then let, say, both of them be with copper or bronze knives, dressed in coarse-wooled tunics and ... one with a shepherd's staff, but the other ... with a stone hoe on a long wooden handle ! For what kind of agriculture could there have been? Hoe! Here Cain scored his brother with a peasant hoe! Whether it was so or not, the picture - if, of course, the artist tries, it can turn out to be simply amazing in all respects.
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  1. Grandfather
    Grandfather 13 November 2021 06: 12
    +10
    I think it was a TT with a silencer ...
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 13 November 2021 06: 43
      +12
      Come on ... Well, "TT", wherever it went, but where did he find the muffler? Not seriously. laughing

      But in the film "Cain XVIII" he kills a brother with an "atomic mosquito" - progress. wink

      1. ee2100
        ee2100 13 November 2021 06: 50
        +18
        Hi Kostya!
        Because there are no witnesses to the murder, then it would be more logical to write in the Bible "an unidentified subject"
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 13 November 2021 07: 22
          +7
          Hi Sasha!
          In my opinion, they did not go into such subtleties. smile
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 13 November 2021 07: 38
            +9
            Killed and killed! But what I'm interested in is what kind of wine did they drink at the Last Supper?
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 13 November 2021 07: 45
              +12
              It's hard to say anything definite ... laughing

              1. ee2100
                ee2100 13 November 2021 08: 08
                +9
                I had an idea for a long time to recreate the wine of that time or something like that, and try it. Maybe someone has already done this?
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 13 November 2021 08: 47
                  +8
                  I had an idea for a long time to recreate the wine of that time


                  I queue up with my dishes. smile drinks
                  1. ee2100
                    ee2100 13 November 2021 10: 36
                    +6
                    Well, don't take it so literally! Maybe someone has already done this! drinks
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 13 November 2021 10: 57
                      +5
                      But I haven't tried it! smile drinks
                      1. ee2100
                        ee2100 13 November 2021 10: 59
                        +5
                        Me neither. And imagine that someone will develop our idea (for some reason I think about Jews) and what a commercial success!
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 13 November 2021 11: 21
                        +5
                        (for some reason I think about the Jews)


                        Strange, for some reason the same thought entered my head. wink

                      3. deddem
                        deddem 13 November 2021 11: 43
                        +18
                        A newborn was found in the barn by police and social workers. Suspects were detained.

                        IA "Life", December 25. Early this morning, a resident of the suburb of Bethlehem notified the authorities that his barn, where the sheep were kept, was subjected to self-seizure by a group of homeless people. Upon arrival at the scene, the police found a whole group of different people, but most importantly - a newborn boy sleeping in a pile of hay, wrapped in dirty rags.
                        A carpenter, later identified as Joseph D., a resident of Nazareth, along with several shepherds and three foreigners, tried to prevent a social worker from calling to pick up the child. These foreigners, who declared themselves "magicians" and, according to preliminary data, who are natives of Iraq, Iran and India, were also detained. They are suspected of involvement in banned religious organizations.
                        The police spokesman said that the detained foreigners did not have any documents with them, but they had a significant amount of gold, as well as suspicious substances of unknown origin. The detainees refused to testify, citing "divine revelation." The seized gold and substances were sent to the laboratory for forensic examination.
                        According to a report from social services, Joseph Elyashevich D., the alleged father of the newborn, is about 50 years old, while the alleged mother, Maria Efimovna A., is a minor. In this regard, a pre-investigation check has begun on the possible fact of lecherous acts against a minor, including coercion into sexual intercourse.
                        Maria A. is currently admitted to the Bethlehem polyclinic for medical and psychiatric evaluation. She claims to be still a virgin and her child is a son of God. If she is found sane, she will be charged with not providing assistance to a child in a dangerous situation.
                        Joseph D. claims that he works at a furniture factory in Nazareth, and arrived in Bethlehem to take part in the All-Russian population census at the place of registration. However, he was unable to produce any supporting documents, claiming that they had been stolen from him. He also declined to comment on Maria A. and the newborn.
                        In Nazareth, the journalist of "Life" was confirmed that Joseph D. is a senior technologist at a furniture factory, while they described him as an exemplary family man who single-handedly raised six children from his first marriage after the death of his wife. At the same time, the respondents admitted that his marriage to Maria A. had become a scandalous event and was authorized by the registry office as an exception due to the pregnancy of a girl whose parents had recently died.
                        According to the investigation, the priority version of what happened now is drug abuse, possibly simultaneously with attempts to involve detained foreigners in the sect. In order to verify this version, as well as to reliably establish the degree of relationship, blood samples have already been taken from the detainees.
                        At the same time, the shepherds interviewed by journalists claim that they saw "a tall man dressed all in white" who ordered them to come to the stall before "flying to heaven." It is still difficult to judge whether these revelations were caused by the same substances as those of the "magicians", although the information caused an understandable revival among the film crew of the REN-TV channel.
                        The well-known opposition leader A. Navalny said in his blog that the incident is another confirmation of the absence of real measures on the part of the government to curb the flow of illegal immigrants, as well as the declarative nature of the fight against destructive religious sects. In this regard, he demanded from the authorities "not to embarrass themselves, trying to blame everything on drugs" and put the case under special control.
                        The representative of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation noted in an interview that the incident once again underlines the predatory nature of Russian capitalism, leading to the impoverishment of the population, unable to get decent housing.
                        A representative of Amnesty International (a foreign agent) expressed concern about the continuing persecution on religious grounds and the general deterioration of the situation with religious tolerance in the country.
                        Greenpeace representatives did not stand aside either, who drew attention to the fact that the detainees burned dung in the barn, demonstrating the low level of environmental responsibility of Russians and their lack of awareness of renewable energy sources.
                        The President's press secretary noted that the creation of centers for social assistance to the population is one of the priorities for the state, in connection with which the Investigative Committee was instructed to carry out an extraordinary check of their activities in the Galilee and Judean regions.
                        The governor of the Judean region Idumeev Herod Antipovich announced the creation of a crisis headquarters in connection with the information that appeared about the impending terrorist attacks on religious grounds, including by the Sicarii sect (an organization banned in the Russian Federation).
                        At 17:30 in the framework of the talk show "Let them talk" there will be a discussion on the topic "Is it possible to give birth in a barn these days?" with direct connection from the scene. Among the participants are the author of the scandalous book "Life on the Street" G. Sterligov and the Plenipotentiary of the President for the BVFO P. Pilatov.
                        And when this material was already typed into print, it became known that the medical examination confirmed the virginity of the minor Maria A., in connection with which she was taken into custody on suspicion of involvement in the theft of the baby. While waiting for the results of Joseph D.'s paternity test, his older children have already announced the preparation of a lawsuit against Maria A. in connection with fraud. “She pretended to be pregnant and forced her father to marry by vile blackmail, counting on an inheritance. After all, he has an apartment in Jerusalem, in the Hasmoneevka, it's just that his grandmother lives out there. We immediately guessed that this was an unclean thing, because her parents themselves could not have children for a very long time, and if it were not for several thousand dollars for the newly introduced IVF, there would be no Masha in the world. So the question is, why would she, so beautiful, take it and immediately carry it ?? ”.
                      4. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 13 November 2021 12: 03
                        +7
                        Can the dealer's phone number? ))
                      5. ee2100
                        ee2100 13 November 2021 21: 03
                        +4
                        Remember? drinks
                        102/112
                      6. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 14 November 2021 08: 45
                        +1
                        Then the customs drinks wink
                      7. ee2100
                        ee2100 14 November 2021 09: 32
                        +1
                        Not sure. They have already given the go-ahead, and there must be a dealer!
                      8. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 14 November 2021 09: 36
                        +1
                        Why, if there is a wholesale warehouse? laughing
                      9. ee2100
                        ee2100 14 November 2021 09: 55
                        0
                        Okay, the phones above are for reference.
                      10. Captain45
                        Captain45 14 November 2021 19: 31
                        +2
                        Everything was so, the only amendment:
                        Quote: deddem
                        tried to prevent a social worker from arriving on a call,
                        , it was an employee of the JUVENAL, not a social service. "The true believe" L. Matthew ...
                      11. kytx
                        kytx 14 November 2021 11: 11
                        +1
                        Yes emnip divers got wine from a Greek galley. Have tried
                        It went bad. But nobody died :)
                    2. parusnik
                      parusnik 13 November 2021 11: 01
                      +9
                      Yes, the production of wine in this way is described in the tales of A Thousand and One Nights, namely, in Sinbad's travels, when he gets to an island, a local aborigine saddled him and to get rid of him Sinbad made wine.
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 13 November 2021 11: 26
                        +4
                        It looked something like this?



                        Hi Aleksey! smile
                      2. parusnik
                        parusnik 13 November 2021 14: 32
                        +4
                        laughing Hi! laughing The manufacturing process has not been disclosed.
                      3. Catfish
                        Catfish 13 November 2021 14: 52
                        +6
                        Well, you can't open everything, something should still remain a mystery. smile
                      4. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 13 November 2021 17: 28
                        +2
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        Well, you can't open everything, something should still remain a mystery. smile

                        Wah, wah, yak Tsekava blonde, ygy, ygy, ygy! ))
                      5. Catfish
                        Catfish 13 November 2021 17: 54
                        +3
                        "Mom bought a konik, and a konik without a leg,
                        Yakaya garna Toy, gygy, gygy, gygy ... " laughing
                      6. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 13 November 2021 18: 43
                        +3
                        This is the original drinks laughing
                2. Alien From
                  Alien From 13 November 2021 13: 17
                  -3
                  Most likely either non-brothers or lords ... ... carry such a blizzard laughing
                  1. zenion
                    zenion 13 November 2021 19: 26
                    +3
                    The worst thing is that we stopped there. And at that time there were only four people in the entire planet. Adam, Eve and their two sons, Cain and Abel. But the writers somehow forget it. Therefore, a very interesting request of Cain from God - here I go and everyone I meet can kill me. And then God marked Cain, put a seal on him - it is dangerous not to touch. Who could touch Cain and why? Really, like Stirlitz's - touch Stirlitz told the driver. The driver touched it, Stirlitz liked it.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                    2. Illanatol
                      Illanatol 14 November 2021 09: 13
                      +1
                      And at that time there were only four people in the entire planet. Adam, Eve and their two sons, Cain and Abel.


                      Adam and Eve also had daughters. Like, so that the sisters do not soak, in revenge for Abel.
                      However, it is possible that there were other people as well. Until now, there are different opinions about who became Cain's wife, his sister or the "leftist" lady, created by a rival god. smile
                      1. zenion
                        zenion 14 November 2021 15: 59
                        0
                        But most of all God liked meat, not herbs, in general, God was not a vegetarian. The most delicious meat of course was human and God started wars, bonfires were lit. German Nazis made an offering to God every day. Hitler told Goebbels - the time will come and all of Europe will thank us.
                3. AllBiBek
                  AllBiBek 13 November 2021 13: 19
                  +4
                  At the Krasnodar Regional Studies there is a reconnaissance cafe according to ancient recipes and served on new-made ceramics according to antique samples, there was at one time.
                  And so, I had one comrade from that get-together made, with squeezing hands, with wild yeast, and with aging in a jar of wood chips.
                  Quite homemade sour, drinking undiluted - such a thing.
                  I liked the date wine more: it is on coarsely ground unleavened cakes, river water, and, in fact, dates.
                  The head is cracking from both of them notably, but this is out of habit, I guess.
                4. No name B
                  No name B 14 November 2021 09: 43
                  +1
                  Made in Israel, in the village where Christ turned water into wine, wine is produced and sold according to those recipes. My daughter and mother were on a pilgrimage trip to holy places, they brought it)
            2. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 13 November 2021 12: 05
              +4
              Quote: ee2100
              Killed and killed! But what I'm interested in is what kind of wine did they drink at the Last Supper?

              Red sweet, kosher for Passover. The Last Supper - Seder Passover. And they ate matzo, not flatbread.
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 13 November 2021 12: 13
                +3
                Hi Albert!

                Red, sweet - with all the pleasure, and if you still warm up and add alcohol - vaasche! smile drinks
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 13 November 2021 12: 14
                  +4
                  Greetings, Constantine! hi
                  There a glass (special, silver) goes in a circle. ))
                  After that, everyone drinks for their own pleasure, as much as they like. laughing
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 13 November 2021 12: 25
                    +4
                    Here is life! Yes, I would also be out of a simple, faceted, on which I was brought up. laughing drinks

                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 13 November 2021 16: 16
                      +3
                      So after a sip from a glass of silver, everyone, as a rule, increases the degree yes
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 13 November 2021 17: 21
                        +2
                        I did not understand whether a degree was announced from silver, or then they added stronger. Otherwise, I drank vodka and brandy from home silver glasses and did not notice much difference with glass. It's just nicer, that's all. smile
                      2. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 13 November 2021 17: 23
                        +2
                        No, the glass is ritual - everyone sips, then everyone (at the Russians, at least) starts drinking Viskar, vodka, etc. from ordinary glasses))
                      3. Catfish
                        Catfish 13 November 2021 17: 27
                        +4
                        This is understandable, people are catching up.
                        (for Russians, at least)

                        In some report I heard a mature man say:
                        "You had to come to Israel in order to finally become a Russian!" laughing drinks
                      4. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 13 November 2021 19: 45
                        +1
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        This is understandable, people are catching up.
                        (for Russians, at least)

                        In some report I heard a mature man say:
                        "You had to come to Israel in order to finally become a Russian!" laughing drinks

                        There are also enough Russian Slavs there - there are a couple of hundred thousand)).
                      5. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 13 November 2021 20: 19
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        There are also enough Russian Slavs there - there are a couple of hundred thousand)).

                        Strange, but what, there are Russians who are not Slavs?
                      6. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 13 November 2021 20: 55
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        There are also enough Russian Slavs there - there are a couple of hundred thousand)).

                        Strange, but what, there are Russians who are not Slavs?

                        Russian Jews, Russian Kazakhs, etc. Abroad they are called that way.
                      7. Shahno
                        Shahno 13 November 2021 21: 02
                        +2
                        Well, there are a hundred shades here ...
                        Born in the country of origin, speaking the language of origin. In short, a pretext for distinguishing people by nationality and sticking labels.
                      8. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 14 November 2021 08: 47
                        0
                        Quote: Shahno
                        Well, there are a hundred shades here ...
                        Born in the country of origin, speaking the language of origin. In short, a pretext for distinguishing people by nationality and sticking labels.

                        What for? If I am told, say, a Bukharian Jew or a Kazakh German, I understand, approximately, the peculiarities of the mentality. No more.
                      9. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 13 November 2021 22: 14
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnodar

                        Russian Jews, Russian Kazakhs, etc. Abroad they are called that way.

                        Why repeat after someone said nonsense? Russian Jews, like Kazakhs, do not exist in nature. It's like a wooden stone. There are Jews - citizens of the Russian Federation. Etc. And Russian, he is Russian, like a Jew, he is a Jew. Nothing bad, as well as nothing good about it. It's just nationality. As there is nothing good or bad in a proper name. Whether it's Ivan, Hans or Moishe.
                      10. observer76
                        observer76 14 November 2021 00: 23
                        -1
                        Absolutely correct opinion.
                      11. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 14 November 2021 08: 16
                        0
                        Why nonsense? There are Kazakh Germans, there are Alsatian Germans, Argentine Germans, Volga Germans, etc. There are many similarities, but also many differences. Shades.
                      12. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 14 November 2021 09: 37
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        There are Kazakh Germans, there are Alsatian Germans,

                        Are we now talking about nationality, or about the place of residence of an individual?
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Argentine Germans, Volga Germans, etc. There are many similarities, but also many differences. Shades.

                        And the two Germans living in Alsace have no differences? There are quite a few. It depends on gender, education, upbringing, prof. activity, after all, character.
                        Well, in conclusion. How do you like the expression - Jewish Russian, Jewish German, etc.?
                      13. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 14 November 2021 09: 55
                        0
                        I agree that one cannot judge a person by nationality, skin color, religion, etc.
                        Normal Expressions
                      14. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 14 November 2021 10: 08
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        I agree that one cannot judge a person by nationality, skin color, religion, etc.

                        Krasnodar, what are you really ... We are not talking about a person, but about his belonging to a particular nationality. A person cannot have two nationalities. Otherwise, it is already schizophrenia.
                      15. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 14 November 2021 10: 56
                        0
                        laughing
                        What do you mean, two nationalities? ))
                        Bukharian Jews also differ from Uzbeks / Tajiks, among whom they have lived for generations, and from other Jews, say, American ones.
                        Subethnos, like the Lebanese or Moscow Armenians. Or Bulgarian / German Turks. Do you understand what I mean?
                      16. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 14 November 2021 11: 20
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        What do you mean, two nationalities?

                        Here is stubborn))))))
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Bukharian Jews are also different from Uzbeks / Tajiks,

                        Because they are Jews, although they live in Bukhara.
                        And Bukharian Jews differ from American Jews in the level of education, culture, etc.
                        Tell a Bukharian Jew that he is not a Jew, because he doesn’t dress like in Israel or the United States, the wrong level of education, the wrong dishes on his weekly menu, and he reads the wrong newspapers. And what will he answer to you?
                        I repeat once again - I'm talking about nationality and nothing else. Nationality is given to everyone from above, and everything else is coming. This coming can change, with a change of place of residence, education, upbringing, and the nationality will remain. This is neither good nor bad. This is a given.
                      17. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 14 November 2021 11: 27
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        And Bukharian Jews differ from American Jews in the level of education, culture, etc.

                        Communication language (dialect Farsi / Tajik / Russian vs English / Yiddish)
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        Tell a Bukharian Jew that he is not a Jew, because he doesn’t dress like in Israel or the United States, the wrong level of education, the wrong dishes on his weekly menu, and he reads the wrong newspapers. And what will he answer to you?

                        That he is a Jew, but different from an American, Russian and Moroccan Jew))
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        I repeat once again - I'm talking about nationality and nothing else. Nationality is given to everyone from above, and everything else is coming. This incoming can change, with a change of place of residence, education, upbringing, and the nationality will remain. This is neither good nor bad. This is a given

                        This is understandable, but among any nationality there are different groups that differ from each other and have common features - that's just what I'm talking about.
                      18. observer76
                        observer76 15 November 2021 16: 50
                        +1
                        It would be correct to say Russian-speaking or Russian-speaking Jews. In particular, because this is not a group, and many of them have no common features.
                      19. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 November 2021 17: 19
                        0
                        Quote: observer76
                        It would be correct to say Russian-speaking or Russian-speaking Jews. In particular, because this is not a group, and many of them have no common features.

                        From the point of view of the Israelis, Russian Jews and Russian Slavs are called so - Russians yes And who is of what blood, where he prays and whether he prays at all - it's the tenth thing. For locals.
                      20. observer76
                        observer76 15 November 2021 17: 29
                        0
                        Well, again, depending on the level of the Sabra intelligentsia. And for the "schooner" it is understandable, all Russian speakers - ahi ata rusi?
                      21. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 November 2021 17: 34
                        0
                        The higher the level of the intelligentsia, the more they don’t care. In the schoonate metsuka - yes, who is a Jew, who is not a Jew, everyone is interested.
                      22. observer76
                        observer76 15 November 2021 17: 39
                        0
                        They just do not know this there.
                      23. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 November 2021 17: 45
                        0
                        Quote: observer76
                        They just do not know this there.

                        What do they not know? That there are many non-Jews among the Russians? As they know laughing And they constantly talk about it. And in prosperous areas they know about it, but - to all the side.
                      24. observer76
                        observer76 15 November 2021 17: 53
                        0
                        They generally know. In particular, no. Somewhere they say, but somewhere they don't. And now they began to marry and do not care. Previously, it was mainly on Russian-speaking girls, but now the girls also spat and began to marry the guys, I especially know a lot of emen by origin for the Russians, and the Moroccan went to meet. Dissimilation is gaining momentum. And the prosperous people just do not speak, but they all know and quietly, without noise, bypass.
                      25. sevryuk
                        sevryuk 14 November 2021 13: 11
                        0
                        It is correct to say "Russians of Jewish origin".
                      26. observer76
                        observer76 15 November 2021 16: 51
                        0
                        No, not right.
                      27. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 November 2021 17: 20
                        0
                        Quote: observer76
                        No, not right.

                        Yes, the difference, we found something to argue about
                      28. observer76
                        observer76 15 November 2021 17: 25
                        0
                        Well, in fact, the devil is in the details.
                      29. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 November 2021 17: 37
                        0
                        Quote: observer76
                        Well, in fact, the devil is in the details.

                        What are the details? The majority of Russian Slavs are technocrats and workaholics, Russian Jews for the most part are looking for quick money. But now in both ethnic groups there are both, because they merged into one whole. And, by and large, they immediately became one.
                      30. observer76
                        observer76 15 November 2021 17: 48
                        0
                        Well, first of all, I don't know who the Russian Jews are, I haven't found them in 31 years of my life in Israel, I have discovered completely different and often not related to culture habits of people speaking Russian, of Jewish origin. Of course, it is not possible to single out both guppas and some areas where there is a "ghetto" of the same type, but as a whole it is not a homogeneous group and not a bearer of similar culture and values ​​as a whole. For the most part, technocrats are either ethnic Jews or come from a mixed family. Ethnic Slavs in Israel are technocrats to a much lesser extent. The percentage of ethnic Jews with a financial and entrepreneurial streak is much higher from the southern republics of the former USSR, the further north and west, the less they are. Which is well explained historically. And this whole motley Russian-speaking crowd has never been and never will be. Which, again, is clearly visible on any Israeli portal in Russian and in life too.
                      31. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 November 2021 18: 49
                        0
                        At what age did you come to Israel?
                      32. observer76
                        observer76 15 November 2021 18: 54
                        0
                        At the age of 24.
                      33. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 November 2021 20: 51
                        0
                        I'm 14, in 1991. Army, training, etc. And the conclusions that I draw concern the guys, plus or minus of my generation. )) Some of the non-Jews who made the conversion to the army had an Israeli wife. Many Jews, including myself, have non-Jewish wives. Most of the Russian / Ukrainian / Tatar guys are programmers / engineers and civil servants, incl. in power structures, Jewish guys are mainly representatives of "free professions" - lawyers and businessmen, including people from Pskov, the Urals, Muscovites. hi
                      34. observer76
                        observer76 15 November 2021 20: 57
                        +1
                        My wife is also a non-Jewish in Halakha. A child of a mixed family, just after the grandfathers on both sides. And I know a lot of such families. As I know, more than one marriage with Israeli women with children from such families and without any conversion and not necessarily from the army, but in my generation, such marriages were a real rarity. And mainly ethnic Slavs, whom I know - working professions, in my generation and older, and technicians or Jews or from mixed families. hi
                      35. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 November 2021 22: 00
                        0
                        Well, I have guys who came to Israel as children. Maybe that's why request
                      36. observer76
                        observer76 15 November 2021 22: 10
                        0
                        Another generation, a different mentality.
                      37. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 November 2021 17: 20
                        0
                        Quote: sevryuk
                        It is correct to say "Russians of Jewish origin".

                        Doesn't change the essence laughing
                      38. observer76
                        observer76 15 November 2021 17: 25
                        0
                        But the essence is different.
                      39. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 November 2021 17: 38
                        0
                        Quote: observer76
                        But the essence is different.

                        What is it? To the extent of affecting the primary sexual characteristics in males? laughing
                      40. observer76
                        observer76 19 November 2021 19: 49
                        0
                        On the opposite functionality, on the peculiarities of the intelligentsia of thinking and its practical application in everyday self-expression. wink
                      41. Fat
                        Fat 19 November 2021 08: 57
                        +1
                        No, my Russian granny, when she was angry with her sister Grunya, called her a "Jewess" because she merged with her husband in Chicago on time ... The essence is the same - the House-Fortress. Sometimes it comes to mind that the Jews, in terms of protecting the House, are, if not more, but no less merciless than we, the Russians ... where someone got in, so is that Tatar ... or in general ... a Greek. laughing yes
                      42. Fat
                        Fat 19 November 2021 08: 47
                        +1
                        And I liked the shipshander Jacek Stuhr more ... wassat
                      43. observer76
                        observer76 14 November 2021 00: 22
                        -1
                        Not half a million?
                      44. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 November 2021 17: 22
                        0
                        No - 200 thousand and the same number of Russian speakers with a mother of non-Jewish origin
                      45. observer76
                        observer76 15 November 2021 17: 24
                        +2
                        Well that is non-Jews according to Halakha approximately, as I wrote. Half of them have nothing to do with Jewry at all, and the other half of the so-called. the seed of Israel. The one that is on the father's side. We are both about the same thing, but from different angles.
                      46. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 November 2021 17: 39
                        0
                        Well, yes, something like that, although the Jews by their fathers from the USSR, as a rule, had more to do with Jewry than Jews by their mothers
                      47. observer76
                        observer76 15 November 2021 17: 54
                        0
                        Also in different ways, what kind of education they received and had an attitude.
                      48. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 November 2021 18: 50
                        +1
                        With a Russian or Ukrainian dad in a family, you obviously won't get a Jewish upbringing, with a Jewish one, as a rule, yes. ))
                      49. observer76
                        observer76 15 November 2021 18: 53
                        +1
                        A statement that is very often at odds with reality. wink
                      50. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 November 2021 20: 43
                        +1
                        I have not seen the opposite cases, and upon arrival in Israel, you can tell anything you want hi wink
                      51. observer76
                        observer76 15 November 2021 21: 04
                        +1
                        And I just saw many cases with a non-Jewish dad, as a rule, ending in a divorce and raising children with a Jewish mother, or where the Jewish mother is Karol Gory, and the father is henpecked. Although I saw the opposite. And in Israel it is especially so. And given that there are no 200-250 contacts around each person, I doubt "I have not seen the opposite cases" even if the person says so. Purely statistically unlikely. wink
                      52. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 November 2021 22: 06
                        +1
                        I am from Chisinau, our community was large, and there were cases of mixed marriages in my class, in parallel, etc.
                        Pts was surprised when I saw children familiar from Moldova, and adults in Israel, who there, with a Jewish mother, it turns out, were considered Moldovans, Russians, etc.
                        But with a Russian mother and a half-Jewish (according to the child's grandfather) dad, a friend grew up quite a Jew. laughing
                      53. observer76
                        observer76 15 November 2021 22: 08
                        0
                        That is why I say that different regions and Jews are completely different, although they speak Russian.
                      54. Fat
                        Fat 19 November 2021 11: 28
                        +1
                        Although I am a Russian person, I am proud of my relatives. Mom is an exceptional character. You can add up legends, but I am sincerely glad that they met at all ... So Three sisters, one, the most beautiful - Jewish ... Not by faith, do not think, the rest are Tatars and Udmuts ... And I ... . is an insignificant supplement to the legend. The family did their job in Stalingrad. And mom, who after ... found my dad
                      55. Fat
                        Fat 19 November 2021 11: 37
                        +1
                        No! Mahogany yacht! Try to moor without a motor! Fools - fools .... But they did! Lucky! In general, reading "Ivanov and Rabinovich" happened?
                      56. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 19 November 2021 11: 54
                        +2
                        Quote: Thick
                        No! Mahogany yacht! Try to moor without a motor! Fools - fools .... But they did! Lucky! In general, reading "Ivanov and Rabinovich" happened?

                        I go to Haifa))
                      57. Fat
                        Fat 19 November 2021 11: 59
                        +1
                        I-I am their bin ... Einferstanden .. fellow good
                      58. Fat
                        Fat 19 November 2021 12: 27
                        +1
                        Yeah, the thing is great yes
                        With respect!
                        Sincerely ... Well, I can't find the words ...
              2. vladcub
                vladcub 13 November 2021 15: 11
                +1
                And since they drank? I seriously ask: were there any restrictions on drinking or drink as much as you want?
                All the same, then there were not strong wines, probably no more than 5 degrees?
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 13 November 2021 16: 24
                  +3
                  Quote: vladcub
                  And since they drank? I seriously ask: were there any restrictions on drinking or drink as much as you want?
                  All the same, then there were not strong wines, probably no more than 5 degrees?

                  In Judaism, there are no and there were no restrictions on drinking, moreover, on the holiday of Purim you are obliged to get drunk in Drabadan. yes
                  But, at the same time, there is a Jewish proverb:
                  a person is judged by the glass, the contents of the pocket and nervousness (obliquely, kiso, kaaso). That is, drunkenness, as well as financial situation and irascibility, are not standardized by religion - only by public opinion.
              3. bk0010
                bk0010 13 November 2021 17: 00
                +4
                Quote: Krasnodar
                And they ate matzo, not flatbread.
                Nonsense! What matzo can be without the blood of Christian babies? And then they were not yet, not a single one! So - cakes.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 13 November 2021 17: 36
                  +3
                  Quote: bk0010
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  And they ate matzo, not flatbread.
                  Nonsense! What matzo can be without the blood of Christian babies? And then they were not yet, not a single one! So - cakes.

                  Then the matzo was made with the blood of October
                  When V. Blank was small
                  With a curly head
                  I ran with the unloading of Alfovskaya
                  On the Temple Hill fellow
              4. zenion
                zenion 13 November 2021 19: 29
                +1
                The word matza, of course, was stolen from Ukrov from the Ukrainian word matzai, like in Stirlitz, that is, touch.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 13 November 2021 20: 04
                  0
                  Yes, during the Ukrainian colonization of Egypt they passed through our lands
        2. YOUR
          YOUR 13 November 2021 07: 37
          +5
          By the shape of the wounds, presumably ....................... (insert as required)
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 13 November 2021 07: 49
            +10
            I wonder who examined the corpse at the crime scene? Have you made the act?
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 13 November 2021 12: 59
              +3
              I wonder who examined the corpse at the crime scene? Have you made the act?

              The sailboat made up, Bubalik examined. soldier
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. ee2100
                ee2100 13 November 2021 21: 44
                +2
                Nikolay! My regards!
                Below Mikhail has figured it out! And again shpakovsky with his hoe at the broken trough! drinks
            2. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 13 November 2021 15: 04
              +10
              Quote: ee2100
              I wonder who examined the corpse at the crime scene? Have you made the act?

              In such cases, a protocol of inspection of the scene of the incident is drawn up. However, at that time there were not so many people on Earth to compose it correctly. We need an investigator and two attesting witnesses, plus a criminologist and a doctor, and close relatives cannot participate in the case.
              But this is not the most important thing. The main thing is that we do not have an officially established cause of death of the victim. Abel could die of fright, he could stumble and break his head, stroke, heart attack - whatever.
              In addition, it is worth considering the option with the necessary defense. It is written in the source - "revolted". What does it mean? This means that he was subjected to oppression, probably by violence. Indirectly, this can be evidenced by the occupation of the accused and the victim - nomads often imposed tribute on the sedentary population.
              In short, the investigation was very bad. The fact of the murderer has not been proven. The versions about the involvement of Adam, Eve and numerous sisters of the victim, not mentioned in the case, have not been considered.
              In short, marriage. The one who carried out the investigation is a hack. From this point on, the expression "an interrogator from God" should be understood as "a very bad interrogator."
              laughing
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 13 November 2021 18: 16
                +3
                Michael! Again, I agree with you! hi
                It was necessary to refer to the corresponding article of the Criminal Procedure Code.
                And so hack! All testimony from words.
        3. riwas
          riwas 13 November 2021 08: 02
          -1
          Because there are no witnesses to the murder, then it would be more logical to write in the Bible "an unidentified subject"

          No. There is a witness - God. The Old Testament was written from his words.
          Another question is that there are translation errors in the Bible. For example, the Old Testament says: God created the earth and the sky.
          However, Professor Ellen Van Walde discovered a translation error from Hebrew. Accurate translation: "first God separated Heaven from Earth."
          http://www.rosbalt.ru/2009/10/13/679850.html
          http://innovanews.ru/info/news/society/1313/
          The Sumerians have the same thing: "According to one of the texts about the supreme god Enlil, he divided heaven and earth ..."
          https://www.kramola.info/vesti/letopisi-proshlogo/chto-drevnie-shumery-pisali-o-sotvorenii-mira
          Science claims that almost all of the foundational ideas from the Old Testament contradict it. However, these contradictions can be leveled if you look at the Old Testament from a different angle.
          Firstly, the book is designed for the worldview of people who lived in the times of the Old Testament - all "superfluous", "distracting" information in it is cut off. No nuclear physics.
          Secondly, the events in the Old Testament are localized in time and space. There was a strong decrease in the Earth's magnetic field and, accordingly, the lowering of the radiation belt ("sky") to the earth, which led to the death of all living things. Mass extinction of 100%. There is such a concept - the "bottleneck" of humanity. Or maybe there was no "bottleneck" - everyone died and then were partially recreated anew, along with the rest of the living world. Therefore, there is nothing in the Bible about dinosaurs, since they do not fall within the considered period of time. Localization by time. When it was? Relatively recently, if it comes from the general history of the Earth. 42 thousand years ago.
          https://www.popmech.ru/science/674483-42-000-let-nazad-magnitnye-polyusa-zemli-perevernulis-uchenye-pokazali-kakie-kataklizmy-eto-vyzvalo/
          Is the earth the center of the universe? In the Bible, the Earth is considered not as an astronomical object, but as the center of the Earth system - radiation belts. The then understanding of the universe. "Theater", where the events of the Old Testament took place. Localization in space.
          https://bukren.my1.ru/Krenev/BIBLIA.doc
          1. observer76
            observer76 15 November 2021 16: 56
            0
            Not entirely true. “et ha Shmaim and et ha aretz” would be more reasonable to translate as the border or the edge of the earth and, accordingly, the border or the edge of the sky. Those. using modern parlance, the earth's crust and atmosphere. Those. the ecosphere to create life.
        4. observer76
          observer76 14 November 2021 00: 19
          0
          If you believe the religious tradition passed on by the Jews, then with your teeth.
        5. Nikifor Terskikh
          Nikifor Terskikh 14 November 2021 01: 49
          +1
          With a blunt object, possibly a head))
      2. Korsar4
        Korsar4 13 November 2021 06: 54
        +9
        Great movie. One gift of a gun is worth a lot.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 13 November 2021 07: 20
          +15
          "- Why do we need a gun?
          -- To defend against enemies.
          - But there are no enemies.
          - There will be a cannon, there will be enemies.
          - And the soldiers, they need to be fed!
          - Eh, darling, you need to feed the unarmed soldiers,
          armed themselves will feed themselves. "(almost S.) laughing
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 13 November 2021 07: 29
            +7
            Schwartz. Aphorisms one after another.
            For example: "500 - adored, 300 - respected."
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 13 November 2021 07: 33
              +7
              And "one hundred to the head of the secret police." smile

              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 13 November 2021 08: 05
                +8
                Bruno Freundlich is very good. Azazello is somewhat reminiscent of him. Probably confidence.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 13 November 2021 08: 38
                  +7
                  Yes, a very good comparison! There is something really demonic in this role. good
                2. ee2100
                  ee2100 13 November 2021 21: 16
                  +2
                  Good evening!
                  Did you see it in Pushkin in 1979-80? "Peer Gynt" with Bruno Freundlich, he was then 70+. Fell, rolled down an inclined plane, roll 2-3 times. He jumped to his feet and continued the monologue!
                  Still in my memory!
                  Yes, there were people nowadays!
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 13 November 2021 22: 20
                    +2
                    Good evening! I rarely go to the theater. But there is no doubt that there were actors to whom all the attention was riveted.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                    2. ee2100
                      ee2100 13 November 2021 23: 08
                      +1
                      They went to Freudlich's father, and she already shone in "Office Romance"
          2. kalibr
            13 November 2021 07: 31
            +10
            Quote: Sea Cat
            will feed themselves. "

            I always liked this movie. And this? "It is difficult to be an executioner, he has a family, and I am responsible for everything with my head ..."
        2. kalibr
          13 November 2021 07: 48
          +8
          Quote: Korsar4
          One gift of a gun is worth a lot.

          Better a statue-spy: "Adored 40, respected also 40 and 20 for the needs of the chief of the secret police."
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 13 November 2021 08: 04
            +5
            Domestic and foreign policies are inseparable.
      3. vladcub
        vladcub 13 November 2021 08: 09
        +4
        "where nadybal" Kostya, he shot through the pillow. At first, he strangled him with a pillow, and then took the TShnik and fired at the pillow. Although a Tteshnik can hit the skull and is good
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 13 November 2021 08: 56
          +4
          Although you can shake the skull with a TS


          Conversely, it is never aesthetic. winked
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 13 November 2021 15: 00
            +2
            Is it aesthetically pleasing with a club?
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 13 November 2021 15: 05
              +1
              It is not a pity to throw the club out later.
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 November 2021 06: 43
      +4
      Quote: Dead Day
      I think it was a TT with a silencer ...

      Unwise comments, I think to the above article by the Author, are at least inappropriate. As a maximum, dear Dedkastary can grab hold of some "neophyte lawyer of the Russian Orthodox Church" for insulting the feelings of believers. If you are joking, put a smiley.
      If they touched upon questions of jurisprudence, then the following legal interpretation of Vyacheslav caused confusion in me.
      between blood brothers Cain and Abel

      If the Bible is to be interpreted correctly, they are not only half-brothers but also half-brothers. Mom and Dad are the same: Adam and Eve.
      Although a number of heretical branches of Christianity interpreted that Adam sinned with some “woman”, from whom the family of Cain came. Is it true that it makes it possible to play in categories that humanity is the descendants of only Cain, or is there a branch of Adam? There is a sea of ​​insinuations on this topic, in connection with which special thanks to Vyacheslav Olegovich for an interesting topic!
      Regards, Vlad!
      P.s. I wonder what armored train will the supporters of Darwinism take? laughing
      1. Hunter 2
        Hunter 2 13 November 2021 07: 05
        +10
        Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka

        P.s. I wonder what armored train will the supporters of Darwinism take? laughing

        Greetings to "militant historians" laughing !
        The article is extraordinary, I read it with interest. Supporters of Darwinism, no doubt on the ship "Beagle", it was on it that Charles Robert Darwin made a round-the-world trip in 1831-1836, well, or on another "vehicle" but always with the same name yes tradition ... after all! hi
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 13 November 2021 07: 25
        +10
        I wonder what armored train will the supporters of Darwinism take?


        I don't know which one, but the commission for the meeting has already been prepared. wink

        1. vladcub
          vladcub 13 November 2021 14: 10
          +4
          Kostya, I would add a couple: "flies": "Cliff". It is difficult to resist such "bouquets"
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 13 November 2021 14: 21
            +3
            I would add a couple: "flies": "Cliff"


            Superfluous, against the good, old ZIS-3 is impossible to resist! And Darwinists will scatter themselves after the first shot. laughing

            1. vladcub
              vladcub 13 November 2021 14: 59
              +2
              In principle, I agree. Now I remembered from the film: "To love in Russian", they gasped from the "forty-five", and then a gun into the pool
      3. Fitter65
        Fitter65 13 November 2021 08: 14
        +10
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        As a maximum, dear Dedkastary can grab hold of some "neophyte lawyer of the Russian Orthodox Church" for insulting the feelings of believers.

        And who will answer for insulting the feelings of atheists? Moreover, an atheist businessman is obliged to submit a declaration of income, but a priest - a "businessman from God", so to speak, is not.
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 13 November 2021 10: 12
          -2
          Quote: Fitter65
          And who will answer for insulting the feelings of atheists?

          very interesting question
          let's style it differently
          What feelings does an atheist have for lack of a soul?
          be sure to voice them
          otherwise how to understand the feelings of a person without a soul?
          1. Fitter65
            Fitter65 13 November 2021 11: 41
            +5
            Quote: Flood
            What feelings does an atheist have for lack of a soul?

            According to the anatomical atlas, there is no place for the soul anywhere. On the other hand, why do you forbid atheists to have feelings? Moreover, from time immemorial a person has senses, again according to the medical atlas. Yes, and as recent practice shows, very deeply believers, well, and, accordingly, very sincere people are among the inmates, especially for grave crimes, you can see these very sincere people on TV almost every week, then from one ITK report how the church was opened, then in another penitentiary institution, the convicts built a temple - well, people have a soul. True, many of them have several walkers, well, I think this is out of a sense of deep faith and a desire to be closer to God, they are just drawn to their temple in the strict regime zone. But we remember who first provoked a person to commit a crime ...
            1. Flooding
              Flooding 13 November 2021 11: 57
              -2
              Quote: Fitter65
              According to the anatomical atlas, there is no place for the soul anywhere.

              how much room is needed for the soul?
              Quote: Fitter65
              On the other hand, why do you forbid atheists to have feelings?

              are you joking
              is it possible to forbid a person to have feelings?
              and did not even think.
              where did you read it?
              Quote: Fitter65
              Moreover, from time immemorial a person has senses, again according to the medical atlas.

              so I asked you to help me figure out exactly which sense organs offend believers. organisms of vision? smelling?
              Quote: Fitter65
              But we remember who first provoked a person to commit a crime ...

              one who doesn't exist?
              1. Fitter65
                Fitter65 13 November 2021 12: 08
                +2
                Quote: Flood
                one who doesn't exist?
                It does not exist, but for the mediation between the believers in the one who does not exist, and between this one who does not exist, there are mediators who, for a "moderate fee", will either pray for you, then "your request will be passed on to him." Although it is very interesting that the only request to someone who does not exist can be expressed only in asking forgiveness for "our sins", the person is just born and is already guilty of sin, conceived, that is, again to the intermediary ... ...
                1. Flooding
                  Flooding 13 November 2021 12: 25
                  -2
                  Quote: Fitter65
                  But we remember who first provoked a person to a crime

                  Quote: Fitter65
                  It does not exist

                  so who do you remember?
                  1. Fitter65
                    Fitter65 13 November 2021 13: 29
                    -1
                    Quote: Flood
                    so who do you remember?

                    I remember a lot of people.
              2. Fitter65
                Fitter65 13 November 2021 12: 15
                0
                Quote: Flood
                are you joking
                is it possible to forbid a person to have feelings?
                and did not even think.
                where did you read it?

                A bit higher
                Quote: Flood
                What feelings does an atheist have for lack of a soul?

                As they say, one follows from the other. After all, an atheist, according to your statement, does not have a soul, respectively ... Oh, you probably had something completely different in mind ?!
                1. Flooding
                  Flooding 13 November 2021 12: 29
                  -1
                  Quote: Fitter65
                  As they say, one follows from the other

                  do not do it
                  I asked a direct question that I did not receive an answer to
                  but I learned that you remember the one who does not exist
                  and that by asking about feelings I deny the existence of feelings
                  Quote: Fitter65
                  After all, an atheist, according to your statement, does not have a soul

                  do you think otherwise?
                  Or did you come across another anatomical atlas?
                  do you have a soul or not?
                  Quote: Fitter65
                  you probably meant something completely different ?!

                  so answer direct questions directly
                  and you don't need to put so many question marks
                  if there is such a need, I can repeat my questions again
                  1. Fitter65
                    Fitter65 13 November 2021 13: 35
                    -1
                    Quote: Flood
                    do not do it
                    I asked a direct question that I did not receive an answer to

                    You asked a direct question, and what purpose are you interested in?
                    1. Flooding
                      Flooding 13 November 2021 14: 15
                      -1
                      Quote: Fitter65
                      You asked a direct question, and what purpose are you interested in?

                      I have no more questions, if that's all, then you can answer me
              3. bk0010
                bk0010 13 November 2021 17: 06
                +1
                Quote: Flood
                what sense organs are offending believers. organisms of vision? smelling?
                Brain.
          2. bk0010
            bk0010 13 November 2021 17: 05
            +1
            Quote: Flood
            What feelings does an atheist have for lack of a soul?
            Well, so the believers do not have a soul either, which does not prevent them from constantly being offended!
            1. Flooding
              Flooding 13 November 2021 17: 18
              0
              Quote: bk0010
              Well, so the believers do not have a soul either, which does not prevent them from constantly being offended!

              it should be assumed that the existence of the soul is a controversial issue
              atheists claim that she is not
              believers claim that there is a soul

              in order to be as objective and unbiased as possible, you should take their point of view when studying the point of view of atheists
              and vice versa, to understand the attitude of believers, one should proceed from the fact that they have a soul

              your thesis says that only your point of view exists for you, you do not recognize the rest
              with this approach it will be difficult to understand other people and get to the bottom of the truth
              1. bk0010
                bk0010 13 November 2021 17: 30
                0
                Quote: Flood
                in order to be as objective and unbiased as possible, you should take their point of view when studying the point of view of atheists
                and vice versa, to understand the attitude of believers, one should proceed from the fact that they have a soul
                Perverts, too, would probably like me to accept their point of view! Figurines. Opinion is mine and wrong. Point of view too. I have conveyed the truth to you, if you please correspond.
                1. Flooding
                  Flooding 13 November 2021 17: 50
                  0
                  Quote: bk0010
                  Perverts, too, would probably like me to accept their point of view!

                  without a doubt
                  but you stay away from perverts
                  why not exchange opinions with good people?
                  stupid to equate all dissenters with perverts
                  Quote: bk0010
                  Opinion is mine and wrong. Point of view too. I have conveyed the truth to you, if you please correspond.

                  so you have the right place on the pulpit!
                  you are a born dogmatist!
                  science is the fruit of search and doubt
                  contrary to dogma
                  1. bk0010
                    bk0010 13 November 2021 17: 55
                    0
                    Quote: Flood
                    so you have the right place on the pulpit!
                    Exactly! I decided that if it works for priests with believers, then it works for me too.
                    1. Flooding
                      Flooding 13 November 2021 18: 15
                      0
                      Quote: bk0010
                      I decided that if it works for priests with believers, then it works for me too.

                      support you!
                      and hope for an invitation to preach wink
          3. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk 13 November 2021 20: 31
            0
            Quote: Flood
            What feelings does an atheist have for lack of a soul?

            And where did you get the idea that an atheist has no soul?
            1. Flooding
              Flooding 13 November 2021 20: 46
              0
              Quote: Krasnoyarsk
              And where did you get the idea that an atheist has no soul?

              ask them
              I pushed away from their statements
              what I wrote above
          4. Illanatol
            Illanatol 14 November 2021 09: 17
            0
            What feelings does an atheist have for lack of a soul?


            What do feelings have to do with the soul?
            Do the animals feel?
            Do they have a soul?

            By the way, is it weak to prove that believers have a soul?
            1. Flooding
              Flooding 14 November 2021 09: 28
              0
              Quote: Illanatol
              What do feelings have to do with the soul?
              Do the animals feel?

              that's what we're talking about
              are we talking about the senses?
              or about emotions and emotional experiences?
              fear, anger - they are inherent in all higher living beings
              empathy, compassion - it's harder, isn't it?

              my question is about what kind of feelings and how are offended among atheists
              why do you have to explain such simple things?
              well, the fact that they have no soul, atheists openly declare
              I sometimes find it difficult to understand myself: what hurts my heart, liver or soul more
              if there is no soul, it probably becomes easier to understand
              here and explain
      4. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 13 November 2021 12: 16
        +2
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        Mom and Dad are the same: Adam and Eve ... There is a sea of ​​insinuations on this topic ...

        Yes, here in general, if you believe the Holy Scripture, there are many questions!
        Comprehend at least THIS:

        PS It is legal to ask the question: - Who then was the successor of the human race !? belay
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 13 November 2021 12: 32
          +1
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          It is legitimate to ask the question: - Who then was the successor of the human race !?

          female descendants at that time did not consider it necessary to mention
          vigorous patriarchy
          "Abraham begat Isaac; Isaac begat Jacob; Jacob begat Judas and his brothers"
        2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 November 2021 13: 27
          0
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          PS It is legal to ask the question: - Who then was the successor of the human race !?

          Bibiziana? laughing
        3. observer76
          observer76 14 November 2021 00: 26
          -1
          Until the third son, there was a son and three daughters.
      5. vladcub
        vladcub 13 November 2021 14: 02
        +1
        Namesake, their "armored train is on the side track"
      6. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 13 November 2021 20: 39
        +1
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka

        Unwise comments, I think to the above article by the Author, are at least inappropriate. As a maximum, dear Dedkastary in you, can

        Are you serious? What comments can there be on empty chatter?
        And the other comments are not the same empty chatter as the article?
    3. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 13 November 2021 06: 45
      +8
      Yeah ... he put a bamboo club into action, a bale right in the crown of the head and no Cook Abel ...
      It is interesting to talk about who killed whom and with what. And whether Cain and Abel existed in nature or is it an opus from some fantasies invented to curb human feelings. Skillful imposition of fear of inexplicable natural phenomena? I hope no one has any thoughts that during a thunderstorm Zeus throws thunder and lightning? And then there were the gods of Egypt ...
      1. kalibr
        13 November 2021 06: 50
        +8
        I always liked this moment from "Elusive ..." And by the way, what is he talking about? On the obvious benefits of intelligence. He uses any knowledge in the most effective way.
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 13 November 2021 14: 50
          +1
          Q. O. question out of opposition "I always liked this moment", did you imagine yourself in the form of this guide?
          1. kalibr
            13 November 2021 15: 15
            +1
            Quote: vladcub
            Have you imagined yourself as this tour guide?

            No, of course, I liked the comic of the situation. This is how I later became so smart, to talk about intelligence.
    4. Proxima
      Proxima 13 November 2021 06: 45
      +5
      Man's first weapon, like the weapon of the proletariat, there was a cobblestone! Nothing changed... request
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 November 2021 07: 18
        +7
        Quote: Proxima
        Man's first weapon, like the weapon of the proletariat, there was a cobblestone! Nothing changed... request

        I wonder what kind of pavement did the "proletarian" Cain pick him out of?
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 13 November 2021 08: 33
          +9
          He threw stones aside so that they would not interfere with the cultivation of the land. One came in handy.
        2. Hantengri
          Hantengri 13 November 2021 09: 55
          +8
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          I wonder what kind of pavement did the "proletarian" Cain pick him out of?

          Strictly speaking, Cain was not any kind of proletarian, for he had privately owned land and the means of production that made it possible to extract profit from it (a hoe).
          On the other hand, Cain was not the owner of a large agricultural holding, either. in this case, he would have a good lawyer and, therefore, in the Bible we would read something like: "And Cain worked in the field. And he was tired. And lay down to rest. At that time, Abel passed by, with his flocks, looked at his sleeping brother, stumbled on a stone and fell, and hit his head on his brother's hoe. And so 48 times ... "
          In general, Cain was a petty-bourgeois element, a fist, a kind, from the time of the copper-stone era.
          Therefore, any cobblestone, from any pavement, in his hands, cannot be considered a kosher instrument of the proletariat.
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 November 2021 13: 38
            +2
            Quote: HanTengri
            In general, Cain was a petty-bourgeois element, a fist, a kind, from the time of the copper-stone era.

            An interesting fact, the concept of "fist" was introduced into the modern circulation by Gogol in the century before last. If I was not mistaken about Dead Souls.
            I must admit that the mark on the language was Vasily Nikolaevich - the mark!
          2. Illanatol
            Illanatol 14 November 2021 09: 20
            0
            Strictly speaking, Cain was no proletarian


            Was. Since he had neither slaves nor serfs, In the exploitation of others he was not noted.
            A hard worker-peasant, the maximum is "middle peasant".
            1. Hantengri
              Hantengri 14 November 2021 10: 14
              +2
              Quote: Illanatol
              A hard worker-peasant, the maximum is "middle peasant".

              Those. petty bourgeois element, by definition. ))) As it was said.
      2. Snail N9
        Snail N9 13 November 2021 08: 34
        +5
        We do not know what Abel was killed by, but we can roughly guess. To do this, you need to answer the following questions: 1- what did Cain constantly walk with, what he always had with him from what you can kill, and kill quickly enough. 2-whether Cain had something special at the time of the murder, for example, on the day of the murder it was necessary to do some work, or work that required special tools and tools, 3- where the murder was committed in what area, what was there from the guns murders, 4 - how the murder itself happened - spontaneously or prepared, if spontaneously, then what could be at hand at that moment. Something like this. But all the same it will be guesses. My opinion is that the murder was committed with a stone.
        1. Hantengri
          Hantengri 13 November 2021 10: 32
          +1
          Quote: Snail N9
          To do this, you need to answer the following questions: 1 - what did Cain constantly walk with, what he always had with him from what you can kill, and kill quickly enough.

          Hoe.
          Quote: Snail N9
          2-whether Cain had something special at the time of the murder, for example, on the day of the murder, it was necessary to do some business, or work that required special tools and tools,

          If it was time to thresh, then Cain could grab the flail. If he walked for wood, then an ax. In addition, a knife was always present, just in case.
          Quote: Snail N9
          3- where the murder was committed in what area, what was there from the murder weapons

          Near East. But this, most likely, is not important, tk. in the late Neolithic - early Copper Age, the assortment of tools, I think, did not differ much, from locality to locality.
          Quote: Snail N9
          4- how the murder itself happened - spontaneously or prepared, if spontaneously, then what could be at hand at that moment.

          This, in my opinion, is a secondary issue. And with a hoe, an ax, a knife, and a flail, it is equally effective to "pin up" a neighbor, both deliberately and "because of a sudden outbreak of personal hostility that arose in the process of sharing alcoholic beverages."
          Quote: Snail N9
          My opinion is that the murder was committed with a stone.

          I vote for the hoe. Extremely deadly, always at hand and without fawn.
      3. Catfish
        Catfish 13 November 2021 09: 02
        +5
        The first weapon of man, like the weapon of the proletariat, was the cobblestone!


        This canvas just irrefutably proves that Cain was a real proletarian! laughing

        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 November 2021 13: 43
          +2
          Not a tolerant picture Constantine!
          Is Cain too dark? And in general, there should be gender equality in modern society! So one of the characters must be at least a woman! laughing
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 13 November 2021 14: 36
            +3
            A woman? Yes to your health! laughing

    5. Stas157
      Stas157 13 November 2021 08: 00
      +7
      ... for some reason in the Bible, which usually gives a lot of all kinds of details, the description of this event is extremely short. Moreover, it does not name the murder weapon, and this very strange

      The Bible itself is a very strange book. This is the most important book in the history of mankind. But few people were able to read it to the end. The author has a question for you. Were you able to read it in full? I wouldn't be surprised if you haven't read half of it.

      This amount of monotonous and unstructured information lulls the brain. And quickly. The brain is not able to withstand this rubbish for a long time. Therefore, the Bible is advised to read before bedtime, as a universal sleeping pill.
      1. kalibr
        13 November 2021 08: 36
        +8
        Quote: Stas157
        Were you able to read it in full?

        I just read it entirely out of purely professional interest. I also looked through 1418 Pravda newspapers during the war years and read some of them very carefully. And all the Truth was viewed from 1918 to 1991. Wow! After that, the Bible was read quite quickly.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 13 November 2021 11: 44
          +2
          Quote: kalibr
          I also looked through 1418 Pravda newspapers during the war years and read some of them very carefully. And all the Truth was viewed from 1918 to 1991. Wow! After that, the Bible was read quite quickly.

          And against the background of Truth did not look so mystical repeat
          1. kalibr
            13 November 2021 15: 18
            +2
            Quote: Krasnodar
            And against the background of Truth did not look so mystical

            OFFER!
        2. Stas157
          Stas157 13 November 2021 12: 00
          +2
          Quote: kalibr
          Just read entirely out of purely professional interest. ... And after that the Bible was read pretty fast.

          Did you read it in concentration or skim it superficially? The fact is that if you read thoughtfully, then ridiculous questions constantly arise that remain unanswered.

          Tell me here how could God create the Sun on the fourth day, if there can be no day without the Sun a-priory? Ancient writers unfamiliar with astrology, of course, could not know this ... but Jesus, who created everything, had to know such school things as our Father!))
          1. kalibr
            13 November 2021 15: 24
            +2
            Quote: Stas157
            Did you read it in concentration or skim it superficially?

            I'm a historian. I read it very carefully as ... a historical source. And if my questions arose, then something of a slightly different nature, not astronomical but historical. By the way, there are very interesting studies of the Bible "Biblical Hills" by E. Tserena (M. "Pravda", 1986) and "Biblical battles" Herzog, Gichon. It is in Russian - AST, 2006
            1. Snail N9
              Snail N9 13 November 2021 16: 48
              +3
              Reading the Bible, especially the Old Testament, to be honest, I was blown away by what was written there. For example, how the God of the Jews appeared before Jacob as a bush of fire and Jacob overcame him! Imagine a mortal conquered God! How is this possible? Moreover, having defeated God, Jacob received a "dry hand", which suffered many famous reformers, well, for example, Stalin. In addition, in the Old Testament you suddenly begin to understand that God at the beginning of the Bible and the God who leads the Jews are completely different "personalities", and this Israel
              "god" strongly resembles the Devil. Well, for example, there is not even a hint of love for all people, on the contrary, the God of Israel teaches to kill all others who are not from the chosen tribe of Israel in order to occupy their lands and get their property, and even kill children so that there is no one to take revenge! In the New Testament, it becomes clear why the Jews crucified Christ, because they were waiting for the Messiah who should put them, the Jews, above all other nations and put all nations in service to the Jews, and they first greeted Christ with delight, but instead of placing them above other nations, Christ began to preach the opposite - that no nation can be placed above another, and one must love each other, and only love for one's neighbor, regardless of skin color and nationality, will save the world, etc. And about the church of Christ's utterance? - "Don't build me palaces earthly, and build me heavenly temples ... for in the earthly palaces on my behalf the scribes and Pharisees will preach, but that will not be my word ... "Well, the Revelations of John Chrysostom, especially about his vision of the coming of the Devil and his seal on human QR codes, this is generally something with something. It is a pity that practically no one, even among the believers, has read the Holy Scriptures and the Psalms.
              1. vladcub
                vladcub 13 November 2021 17: 43
                0
                "for example Stalin", how do you personally feel about Stalin?
                1. Snail N9
                  Snail N9 13 November 2021 18: 22
                  +2
                  How do I feel about Stalin? I will cite the poems of Tyutchev:
                  "Blessed is he who visited this world In its fateful moments! He was summoned by the all-good As an interlocutor to a feast. He is a spectator of their high spectacles, He was admitted to their council - And alive, like a celestial, From their cup he drank immortality! ..."
                  Understand? hi
              2. Alex777
                Alex777 13 November 2021 23: 13
                0
                Quote: Snail N9
                It is a pity that practically no one, even among the believers, has read the Holy Scriptures and the Psalms.

                In the New Testament, it becomes clear why the Jews crucified Christ

                Do you think that you have already figured out everything and understood everything?
                Here are a couple of questions:
                1. Why is Jesus called the Savior?
                2. What kind of skull and bones are depicted at the base of the crucifixion?
                If you find the answers, you will learn a lot of interesting things. hi
                1. observer76
                  observer76 14 November 2021 00: 34
                  -1
                  Because this is the meaning of the name Yeshua, translated into Russian.
                  Because Eliyahu the proprok asks in the prophetic dialogue of the Creator - will the meat find this sea of ​​bones ?, and he is considered responsible for declaring three days before the coming.
                  1. Alex777
                    Alex777 14 November 2021 00: 40
                    +1
                    So what was the purpose of Christ's coming? wink
                    They wrote about him, they waited for him, they worshiped him.
                    Why exactly the Savior?
                    He knew his purpose.
                    The Bible says a lot about this.
                    1. observer76
                      observer76 14 November 2021 11: 26
                      -1
                      The paradigm says that the coming of the Anointed One, and this is how Christ is translated from the Greek, will mean, first of all, a radical change in the existing order and worldview, the purpose of which is to rid mankind of the crippling paradigm of good and evil. As a consequence, there is an uprising from the dead. An additional idea of ​​how this process will proceed is not described for a person, because the process itself, according to the paradigm of monotheism, is divine and, accordingly, lies beyond the maximum of human intellect. Only a general description of the highlights, forerunners and key figures has come down to us.
                      1. Alex777
                        Alex777 14 November 2021 13: 07
                        0
                        I'll give you a hint.
                        Why didn't Judas have an option not to betray?
                      2. observer76
                        observer76 14 November 2021 15: 21
                        -1
                        This is already specific in Christianity, and in addition, different currents have a different approach to the personality of Judas and his actions, including depending on the Gospel.
                        In general, I am of the opinion that the image of Jesus is collected from three personalities, at least, and Christ in our round of human civilization (about the last 5000 years) did not exist at all. This is a person from the past antediluvian round, like a fragment of a much more voluminous apocrypha that has come down to us as the Sermon on the Mount.
                      3. Alex777
                        Alex777 14 November 2021 17: 11
                        0
                        I was at the site of the Sermon on the Mount. wink
                        Jesus was. And Muslims confirm this.
                      4. observer76
                        observer76 14 November 2021 18: 22
                        -1
                        So do I. wink There were several Jesus. There was no Christ at all. Muslims appeared 1500 years ago.
              3. observer76
                observer76 15 November 2021 17: 05
                0
                My physics teacher called this form of perception of her teaching - I look at the book, I see a fig. Later I more than once met people pulling up the meaning of what they read under their come true and, accordingly, not come true wishlist. Scripture (regardless of whether there is a Gd of Scripture or not and whether he is as described) taught me that in a book one should try to see the author's thought, and not his own reflection of what I came up with on the topic of this thought.
          2. Flooding
            Flooding 13 November 2021 16: 01
            +1
            Quote: Stas157
            Jesus is the one who created everything

            say Jesus was a carpenter
            that Jesus "created everything"?
            Quote: Stas157
            God could have created the Sun on the fourth day, if there can be no day without the Sun

            you are too simplistic and literally look at things
            so you will definitely not understand the meaning of words written thousands of years ago
            for example, I can assume that during the described period, as a result of a large volcanic eruption, the sky was clouded, and the sun was not visible
          3. Alex777
            Alex777 13 November 2021 23: 06
            +1
            Quote: Stas157
            Jesus, who created everything, was obliged to know such school things as our Father!))

            The hosts created everything. bully
            And "Our Father" is from Christ.
          4. observer76
            observer76 14 November 2021 00: 28
            -1
            Nobody created the sun on the fourth day ...
        3. bk0010
          bk0010 13 November 2021 17: 10
          +1
          Quote: kalibr

          I just read it entirely out of purely professional interest. I also looked through 1418 Pravda newspapers during the war years and read some of them very carefully. And the total Truth was viewed from 1918 to 1991
          Hmm ... That explains a lot.
          1. kalibr
            13 November 2021 18: 17
            +1
            Quote: bk0010
            This explains a lot.

            What's a lot? Too significant to understand you correctly.
      2. Flooding
        Flooding 13 November 2021 10: 16
        +4
        Quote: Stas157
        This is the most important book in the history of mankind

        Quote: Stas157
        The brain is not able to withstand this rubbish for a long time.

        the most important book of mankind turned out to be rubbish

        one would expect it to appear structured to a 21st century person, given when and how it was written.
        1. Snail N9
          Snail N9 13 November 2021 18: 24
          0
          Turned out to be "rubbish"? Oh well.
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 13 November 2021 18: 27
            -1
            Quote: Snail N9
            Turned out to be "rubbish"? Oh well.

            once again read my words carefully and the reference to mutually exclusive quotes
            PS
            I understood why the plus signs were stuck to that comment
            obviously understood as well as you
      3. Hantengri
        Hantengri 13 November 2021 11: 11
        +5
        Quote: Stas157
        The Bible itself is a very strange book. This is the most important book in the history of mankind.

        Hindus are unlikely to agree with this statement. And Buddhists too. For Taoists and Confucians, the Bible, again, never went anywhere. Muslims, although they consider Christians to be people of the Book, they still consider the Koran to be the Most Important Book in the history of mankind.
        Quote: Stas157
        But few people were able to read it to the end.

        You just don't know how to read it. ) If, when reading the Bible, instead of perceiving everything written as some kind of infallible, God-given revelation, you begin to notice and compare all the absurdities, contradictions, assertions that are incompatible in meaning, reading becomes very exciting, like a good detective story. (Warning! This is a piece of advice from the series: How to Become an Atheist by Reading the Bible. It is not recommended for anyone to follow it. And never.)
        Quote: Stas157
        This amount of monotonous and unstructured information lulls the brain. And quickly. The brain is not able to withstand this rubbish for a long time.

        You haven't read the Koran yet! laughing
        PS This is purely my personal, private judgment, not aimed at offending any feelings, any believers. )))
      4. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 13 November 2021 11: 42
        +3
        I read the Old Testament in its entirety, also in the original language. Israeli school curriculum for grades 10-12)).
      5. Alex777
        Alex777 13 November 2021 23: 24
        0
        Quote: Stas157
        This amount of monotonous and unstructured information lulls the brain.

        You simply do not have the strength to read. There is nothing surprising in this.
        Believers are fasting for this, so that they have the strength to read.
        My statement may seem strange to you, but it is so. hi
        1. Snail N9
          Snail N9 14 November 2021 09: 14
          0
          In the Middle Ages, the method of divination in the Bible was even widespread, and a simple one - when it was necessary to get an answer to the right question, they simply read Our Father in front of the Bible, then trying to detach themselves from the environment, they asked the right question and the Bible was opened at random, then they poked a finger at the line not looking and began to read. Like an answer. They say it worked ... laughing
    6. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 13 November 2021 12: 05
      +1
      Quote: Dead Day
      I think it was a TT with a silencer ...

      Screw cutter with built-in laughing
    7. Sandro1977
      Sandro1977 14 November 2021 17: 41
      0
      Abel-A, Cain-K .... Together - AK. So he was killed with a Kalashnikov assault rifle. That's it, the crime is solved ...
    8. zenion
      zenion 20 November 2021 16: 48
      0
      Old man. They had such claws at the time that no weapons were needed. First, claws a hole in the neck, and then suck all the blood.
  2. Olgovich
    Olgovich 13 November 2021 06: 34
    0
    Why would God have such a favor to one of the brothers and a negative attitude towards the other? That is, the Lord himself provoked this conflict, which might not have flared up if his attitude towards the brothers were the same.

    But let us not blame the Lord, for his ways are inscrutable, and what he wanted to achieve by completing such injusticewe will never know.


    Who establishes what is fair and what is not?
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 13 November 2021 13: 53
      +2
      Quote: Olgovich
      Who establishes what is fair and what is not?

      What about the seven deadly sins?
      Or do you really believe that fratricide is a just deed?
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 13 November 2021 16: 14
        -1
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        Or do you really believe that fratricide is a just deed?

        I believe that everyone has their own justice and their own logic.
    2. Alex777
      Alex777 13 November 2021 23: 27
      +1
      Quote: Olgovich
      Who establishes what is fair and what is not?

      Creator. His Land, his rules. Therefore, the Holy Scripture is given. hi
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 14 November 2021 08: 02
        0
        Quote: Alex777
        Creator. His Land, his rules. Therefore, the Holy Scripture is given.

        and not a man to talk about injustice hi
        1. Alex777
          Alex777 14 November 2021 13: 08
          +1
          Quote: Olgovich

          and not a man to talk about injustice hi

          Exactly.
      2. Illanatol
        Illanatol 14 November 2021 09: 24
        0
        Good always triumphs over evil.
        After all, whoever won is the one and the kind soldier
  3. Korsar4
    Korsar4 13 November 2021 06: 44
    +8
    Interesting topic. And illustrations. You have already taken on Samson with a donkey jaw. Weller has a version that the donkey's jaw is a frame from an onager. Although, why shouldn't the jaw be the jaw.

    And from the paintings, the most powerful impression is made by the consequences of the murder: "Cain flees from the curse." Fernand Cormon. Museum d'Orsay.
    1. kalibr
      13 November 2021 06: 52
      +10
      Man lives in a world of myths and illusions. And he even considers it possible to portray them. And if so, why not talk about images, right ?!
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 13 November 2021 07: 07
        +6
        Probably. Fairy tales do not lose their popularity. And over time, any reality turns into a myth.
      2. Boris55
        Boris55 13 November 2021 07: 47
        +3
        Quote: kalibr
        Man lives in a world of myths and illusions.

        This weapon is more terrible than any other ...

        The current slave-owning civilization is built on myths: Egypt, Greece, Rome + a collection of books in the Bible. The slave-owning system, albeit "modernized" in time so that the slaves do not consider themselves slaves, is disgusting to me, just like all these myths aimed at the elevation of God's chosen ones ... that's why Moses gave them 10 commandments, otherwise he would have long been a friend a friend was interrupted.
        1. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 13 November 2021 08: 55
          +4
          Quote: Boris55
          that's why Moses gave them 10 commandments, otherwise they would have killed each other long ago.

          Commandments are good if they are kept like the LAW. As soon as they turn into simple words or become unnecessary for everyone, there is no more sense in them than wall-fence prose.
      3. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 13 November 2021 13: 56
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        Man lives in a world of myths and illusions.

        Conventions - yes. F about "myths and illusions", so this is in the ward number 6.
        There, this statement will be appropriate and true.
    2. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 13 November 2021 06: 57
      +7
      Quote: Korsar4
      "Cain flees from the curse." Fernand Cormon. Museum d'Orsay.

      This, or what?
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 13 November 2021 07: 05
        +7
        Yes. And there is no peace to be found, and nowhere to hide.
      2. Boris55
        Boris55 13 November 2021 07: 51
        +4
        You cannot run away from yourself.
  4. Fitter65
    Fitter65 13 November 2021 08: 00
    +2
    That is, the Lord himself provoked this conflict, which might not have flared up if his attitude towards the brothers were the same.
    besides the name of the first victim and the name of the first offender, we know who is the first world provocateur.
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 13 November 2021 10: 47
      +4
      Cain did not "give" to the sacrificial altar what was prescribed for him. And what he himself wanted ...
      This is the interpretation.
  5. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 13 November 2021 08: 08
    +8
    It is absolutely incomprehensible why the author, following the artists, appeals to the primitiveness of society, contemporary to the described event. Based on the type of activity of the brothers, we can conclude that the human society has already been divided into sedentary and nomads. This point of view is described in more detail by A. Azimov in the "Guide to the Bible".
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    1. kalibr
      13 November 2021 08: 39
      +5
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      It is absolutely incomprehensible why the author, following the artists, appeals to the primitiveness of society, contemporary to the described event.

      I wanted it so much!
  6. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 13 November 2021 08: 20
    +6
    Whether it was so or not, the picture - if, of course, the artist tries, it can turn out to be simply amazing in all respects.
    Offer Sheps! laughing
    1. kalibr
      13 November 2021 08: 40
      +5
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      Offer Sheps!

      He is very busy: he draws for the magazines "Science and Technology" and "World of Technology".
    2. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 13 November 2021 13: 14
      +4
      Offer Sheps!

      Then you and I will have to go to the museum again ... If you remember, we are already working for Sheps! laughing drinks Now are we going to photograph Antinous? bully It is necessary to search in the Gatchina photographs of January 2020 - maybe we then photographed a naked-assed handsome man in the front hall? laughing
  7. Illanatol
    Illanatol 13 November 2021 09: 19
    +2
    For what kind of agriculture could there have been? Hoe! Here Cain scored his brother with a peasant hoe!


    Abel was engaged in agriculture.
    Cain was a herder.
    The cattleman's tool is a knife. How to slaughter cattle if not with a knife?
    So, there is an act of stabbing.
    The meat eater killed the vegetarian, for nothing that relatives.
    Hence the expression: "a man is a brother to a man." am
    1. Fat
      Fat 13 November 2021 11: 46
      +2
      hi Anatoly, Cain was a farmer, and Abel was a cattle breeder ...
      And Abel was a shepherd of sheep, and Cain was a tiller. After some time, Cain brought from the fruits of the earth a gift to the Lord, and Abel also brought from the firstborn his flock and from their fatness. Genesis 4: 2-4
      Your version fails yes laughing
      The bribe was "seduced" by the barbecue
      1. Illanatol
        Illanatol 13 November 2021 14: 12
        +2
        Anatoly, Cain was a farmer, and Abel was a cattle breeder ...


        But the "official version" does not make ends meet.
        How was sacrifice to the gods then made?
        She was burned.
        If you burn cereals, plant material, then the smoke will be light, go up.
        And this was just a sign of "pleasing to God."
        And if you burn the flesh of animals, then the smoke will be heavy and will not go up, it will spread near the ground.
        But, according to the Bible, it was Abel who went up the smoke, while Cain did not.
        That is, a sign was given that the sacrifice of Abel is more pleasing to Jehovah than the sacrifice of Cain.
        Which was the reason for the conflict.
        From this I concluded that in the "official version" Abel and Cain were reversed in terms of the main occupation.

        History is known to be written and rewritten by the winners.
        The heirs of Abel were the victors, and they remade this parable in their own way.

        In general, the Bible contains enough lies.
        The Jews were not slaves of the Egyptians, they were a completely wealthy and free (as far as possible then) social group, skillful artisans and warriors-border guards. Because of the religious conflict, they were released from Egypt peacefully, without conflict, the Pharaoh and the army did not pursue them.
        The grains of truth are often dissolved in a sea of ​​lies.
    2. Hantengri
      Hantengri 13 November 2021 11: 52
      +3
      Quote: Illanatol
      Abel was engaged in agriculture.
      Cain was a herder.

      Everything is exactly the opposite.
      Cain is a farmer.
      Abel is a cattle breeder.
      Quote: Illanatol
      The meat eater killed the vegetarian, for nothing that relatives.

      The farmer nailed the nomad, but they were both not vegetarians.
      A typical situation ... "Cain" comes to the yurt of "Abel" and shouts:
      - Hey, get up, in the afternoon! Your ram, my wheat keels!
      - He is not keen, he sniffs.
      - Uh, go see for yourself. He has already "sniffed" half a hectare!
      - Wai, why are you slandering my ram? On such a lousy wheat, like yours, my ram will not even want to watch!
      Further - a word, for a word .. The result is a corpse.
      1. Illanatol
        Illanatol 14 November 2021 09: 40
        +1
        So, I will continue to analyze this myth.
        What is behind it?
        This is an allegory of the struggle between two ways, two ways of managing. Their supporters were in conflict with each other, up to direct violence towards each other.
        In the original version of the myth, Abel (the positive hero) was a peaceful farmer. In general, peasants, farmers, gardeners, gardeners, are more peaceful than nomadic herders. Cain is a negative hero, he was a cattle breeder. This reflected the initial alignment of forces - supporters of the settledness dominated, preferring labor on the land to a nomadic way of life. In this interpretation, the peaceful labor of the farmer was presented as more pleasing to God and corresponding to his commandments, and herders were condemned for excessive aggressiveness.
        But later, the paradigm of being changed among the Jews, and the supporters of a more active way of farming associated with cattle breeding took the upper hand. A new elite has come, which the old interpretation of the myth has become objectionable. Now the positive hero Abel has become a herder, and Cain has become a grain grower and antihero. However, details remained from the original version of the myth that became inconclusive (the behavior of the sacrificial smoke). And the images have become less convincing. Aggressive evil farmer kills peaceful cattle breeder.
        As in later times: hordes of aggressive plowmen attack and destroy the camps of peaceful nomads (Pechenegs, Polovtsians, Ugric Ogres ... underline the necessary) soldier
        1. Hantengri
          Hantengri 14 November 2021 10: 36
          +1
          Quote: Illanatol
          So, I will continue to analyze this myth.
          What is behind it?

          Before continuing to analyze your version of the myth and explain its meaning, it would not be bad, for a start, to prove that it is more consistent and historically justified than the classical one, using arguments somewhat more weighty than: "I am an artist! I see it that way!" And the evidence is more solid than "sacrificial smoke behavior." hi
          1. Illanatol
            Illanatol 14 November 2021 14: 28
            0
            There is no need to disassemble every detail to prove that a banknote is counterfeit. If there is even a minor discrepancy with the established sample, this is quite enough.
            More weighty arguments would be required in the case of an analysis of a more serious source. And for the fables of illiterate savages, this is quite enough. I trust empirical experience more than any "historical documents".
            Or maybe I should take on faith and the "official version" of what Joshua arranged, who managed to stop the sun? hi
            From the same "reliable source", as it were.
            1. Shahno
              Shahno 14 November 2021 14: 40
              +1
              // There is no need to disassemble every detail to prove that the banknote is fake. If there is even a minor inconsistency with the established pattern, that's enough. //
              It depends on what approach to the analysis of banknotes and other images.
              This raises the question of what each detail is ... And how important it is.
              1. Illanatol
                Illanatol 15 November 2021 08: 25
                0
                It depends on what approach to the analysis of banknotes and other images.


                Extremely strict. No deviations.
            2. Hantengri
              Hantengri 14 November 2021 20: 19
              +1
              Quote: Illanatol
              There is no need to disassemble every detail to prove that a banknote is counterfeit. If there is even a minor discrepancy with the established sample, this is quite enough.

              Do you have a sample? If not, what did you compare with? What, in general, can there be a sample,
              Quote: Illanatol
              for the fables of illiterate savages

              ?
              1. Illanatol
                Illanatol 15 November 2021 08: 44
                0
                Do you have a sample? If not, what did you compare with? What, in general, can there be a sample,


                One that is logical and consistent and corresponds to the general spirit of the "original source".
                So what do we know about Cain and Abel?
                They are brothers. Moreover, the elder brother is Cain.
                And the elder brother had a higher priority at that time. The main heir and all that.
                Do you know such a concept as "birthright"? It's kind of mentioned in the Bible.
                As an elder, Cain had more rights in his choice of occupation. The youngest got what was left.
                Someone needed to become a cattle breeder, someone - a farmer.
                Cain, of course, would have chosen whichever is more profitable and less labor-intensive. He was not a masochist, however. A masochist would not fall into rage and aggression at his humiliation by his younger brother ... masochists enjoy their humiliation.
                Therefore, he had to choose cattle breeding, an occupation much more attractive in terms of benefits and less stress. He chose it - in the original, logically substantiated version of the myth.
                But then, the brothers were changed in vocational guidance and the story became less believable.
                You can consider my version unconvincing, your right.
                But even an unconvincing version has the right to exist until the truth is established for sure. This is exactly the case. There are no witnesses, no testimony, the instrument of the crime has not been installed ... a complete mess, in short.
                I do not exclude that Cain killed Abel in self-defense. The motive is clear: Cain is the main contender for the inheritance, if he died, Abel would have had more nishtyaks.
                Maybe that's why God did not severely punish Cain, in fact, giving him invulnerability to outside aggression? wassat

                I myself am sure that the murder was committed with a knife, and with a stone one. The use of metal tools for ritual purposes among the Jews is considered non-kosher.
                And the brothers just performed the ritual of sacrifice.
                Such is the "autumn detective" bully
  8. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 13 November 2021 09: 35
    +8
    Cain had to bring the item of murder with him to the field on purpose? The most realistic conclusion:
    Cain's arm came across a "blunt object of irregular shape" lying there and then.

    Metal sword, knife, spear and ax are not suitable as a murder weapon. The first biblical blacksmith is declared to be a man named Tuvalkain, who is a descendant of Cain in the 6th tribe.
    The donkey jaw is also problematic. The donkey is mentioned in Scripture for the first time only when Abraham goes to sacrifice his son Jacob. He saddled a donkey, put wood on his back for a burnt offering ...
    1. Illanatol
      Illanatol 13 November 2021 14: 14
      0
      Did Cain have to bring the item to the field on purpose?


      They sacrificed to their god. And the sacrificial material needed to be cut before being burned like an altar.
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 13 November 2021 14: 27
      +1
      Quote: A. Privalov
      The donkey is mentioned in Scripture for the first time ...
      The donkey theme is highly developed among the Jews.
      For example, in the New Testament, the donkey is first of all remembered with the solemn entry of Jesus Christ into Jerusalem.
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 13 November 2021 16: 16
        +4
        Quote: BoA KAA
        Quote: A. Privalov
        The donkey is mentioned in Scripture for the first time ...
        The donkey theme is highly developed among the Jews.
        For example, in the New Testament, the donkey is first of all remembered with the solemn entry of Jesus Christ into Jerusalem.

        The Jews?
        Tell me, namesake, are you wrong?
        The Lord's entry into Jerusalem is mentioned not in the Old Testament, but in all four Gospels - Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
        The New Testament is already the I-III century AD. Written in Greek.
        So the Jews are nothing more than the protagonists of these narratives. The "donkey theme" will probably be closer to Christians. hi
      2. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 13 November 2021 16: 31
        +2
        We, like all Semites, are donkey lovers, but due to the millennium of dispersion among the diasporas, incl. European, forgot all the charm of this animal sad
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 13 November 2021 17: 24
          0
          Quote: Krasnodar
          We, like all Semites, are donkey lovers ...

          Colleague! Do you really confirm the words of I. Filimonov 3)? belay
          (https / prosa.ru "Donkey for Jesus".)
  9. Undecim
    Undecim 13 November 2021 09: 47
    +12
    How did Cain kill Abel?

    Apparently, if this issue is less years old than the Book of Genesis, then not much. Moreover, the ancient commentators and interpreters of the Scriptures were concerned not only with "what" but also with "how."
    For example, in the Jewish Babylonian Talmud and in Bereshit Rabba, as well as in the early Christian Pauca problesmata de enigmatibus ex tomis canonicis, it is indicated that Cain strangled Abel.


    Cain strangles Abel, ivory panel from Salerno Cathedral, c. 1084. Today the panel is in the Louvre.
    And an eighth century sermon in the British Library describes how Cain first strangled Abel and then beheaded him with a donkey's jaw.


    And in this medieval miniature, Cain kills Abel with nothing more than a scythe. Here, apparently, the main occupation of Cain - agriculture, was reflected, since in addition to the scythe, other agricultural tools known at that time were also considered - a hoe, a shovel.


    In this miniature from the XNUMXth century Psalter of Saint Louis, Cain kills Abel with a shovel.
    But the authors of the XNUMXth century book Joca monachorum went farthest. They suggested that Cain Abel was no less than bitten with his teeth. Such is the plot for a horror movie.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 13 November 2021 09: 54
      +8

      Cain killed Abel. Miniature from the "Bible of Alba", XIV century. Very clear and detailed.
      1. kalibr
        13 November 2021 10: 59
        +9
        Awesome comment! Thank you, Victor Nikolaevich! Thanks a lot!
      2. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 13 November 2021 13: 17
        +6
        Cain killed Abel. Miniature from the "Bible of Alba", XIV century. Very clear and detailed.

        I summarize - "The Father came and gave it. To all the sisters, earrings, to all brothers in the balls." bully Victor Nikolaevich, great! good drinks Your role in five years is undeniable! yes
    2. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 13 November 2021 15: 30
      +4
      "chewed his teeth" brrr how disgusting
      1. kalibr
        13 November 2021 18: 18
        +2
        Well, the Bible describes a deed and much more nasty ...
        1. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 13 November 2021 18: 19
          +1
          It's good that I didn't read
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 14 November 2021 05: 59
            0
            Sorry! Was drunk! Yesterday! Today?
            1. Astra wild2
              Astra wild2 14 November 2021 13: 22
              0
              Today I'm sober and good
      2. Phil77
        Phil77 13 November 2021 19: 21
        0
        Better not write, Wright?
    3. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 13 November 2021 15: 38
      +3
      Victor Nikolaevich, colleagues. Of the above listed agricultural implements, I would put on a hoe. The simplest and oldest agricultural tool, the scythe appeared later, when man mastered the production of metal
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 13 November 2021 15: 50
        +2
        the braid appeared later, when man mastered the production of metal

        According to the concept of young earth creationism, the age of the Earth and the universe, as determined by the interpretation of the Old Testament, is approximately 6000 years. The first tools for cutting grass are about the same.
      2. Hantengri
        Hantengri 13 November 2021 20: 22
        +1
        Quote: Astra wild2
        Of the above listed agricultural implements, I would put on a hoe. The simplest and oldest agricultural tool, the scythe appeared later, when man mastered the production of metal

        I fully support you, Vera Hon! A scythe can, of course, be stabbed to death, but it is not a fact that it will work out from the first blow. And, here, with a ketman (a hoe, that is) ... He swung it well and ... "Tyuk, right in the crown of the head! And no Cook Abel! "
      3. Phil77
        Phil77 14 November 2021 06: 36
        0
        Faith! I insist on the stone! For!? The oldest cannot be ;;;;;
        1. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 14 November 2021 13: 21
          0
          Agree with you. Just from those listed by Viktor Nikolaevich, I chose a hoe.
          If he planned to kill his brother, he will hide his thoughts. Took a hoe and went into the field no suspicion.
          If in a state of passion, imaginary or natural, the stone is tool number 1.
          As you can see, I also watch and, from time to time, read the dedectives
          1. Shahno
            Shahno 14 November 2021 13: 31
            0
            Yes, a stone ... And the second place was anger, hitting a stone (a hoe, sword, mammoth horn) being in a state of passion.
  10. depressant
    depressant 13 November 2021 10: 02
    +6
    The presentation of the topic is wonderful, Vyacheslav Olegovich! )))
    Having become the reason for a whole waterfall of jokes on the part of the members of the forum, the story of Abel and Cain did not lead me astray, which I took after reading the previous article.
    The first question I asked myself that time was about copper. How did it happen that on all continents unconnected in any way, separated by oceans, communities of people began to melt it according to historical standards at the same time? Within one thousand years. Why did the Chalcolithic occur so suddenly and immediately, which quickly passed into the Eneolithic from people who were deprived of the opportunity to borrow this experience from those who live overseas? There was no historical gap of at least ten thousand years. Almost simultaneously.
    Well, conclusions begged.
    1. kalibr
      13 November 2021 11: 00
      +8
      Quote: depressant
      smelt it by historical standards at the same time?

      Not certainly in that way. North America is an exception. Native copper was used very widely there. But they didn't melt !!!
      1. depressant
        depressant 13 November 2021 11: 17
        +3
        But they didn't melt!

        Right. But after all, the Olmecs came to the idea that copper can be used, exactly when they came to this idea on another continent.
      2. AllBiBek
        AllBiBek 13 November 2021 13: 52
        +2
        Come on?
        And then what did they do with it, and where can you see examples of forging specifically for South Africa?
    2. kalibr
      13 November 2021 11: 04
      +7
      Quote: depressant
      Chalcolithic, which quickly passed into the Eneolithic

      This is the same thing, only in Greek and Latin ...
      1. depressant
        depressant 13 November 2021 11: 30
        +1
        Yes you are right. But this did not change the course of my thoughts in the least.
        I compared the stages of human development with the stages of development of a child. But there is a difference. A child is born helpless and needs the care of an adult. Man was born from a monkey, already being a strong pack animal, able to defend himself. Moreover, like all animals, he possessed signal speech, obeyed the herd hierarchy and the ability for mutual assistance.
        So what was the impetus for turning him into a person? I suppose there is some extremely insignificant difference in DNA, contributing not only to the acquisition of new skills by an individual, but also to the copying of these skills by the rest of the flock. The child is being taught. Humanity has self-taught.
        It looks as if the growing up program is embedded in the DNA of the entire humanity. Which, according to the circumstances, can be implemented successfully, or not very well, but humanity is obliged to go through certain stages and is able to do it.
    3. Undecim
      Undecim 13 November 2021 12: 36
      +5
      The first question I asked myself that time was about copper. How did it happen that on all continents, unconnected in any way, separated by oceans, communities of people began to melt it according to historical standards at the same time?

      Smelting began on one continent - Eurasia.

      Actually, if we consider this process as the production of products for practical everyday use - weapons, utensils, then in Eurasia it ended.
      Neither in Australia nor in South and North America there was a copper age in the classical sense. And in Australia it was not in any sense.
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 13 November 2021 14: 25
        +5
        Quote: Undecim
        Neither in Australia nor in South and North America there was a copper age in the classical sense. And in Australia it was not in any sense.

        Moreover, there was no Copper and Bronze Age, for example, in Scandinavia. There, immediately from stone and bone passed to iron. True, relatively late, but nevertheless ...
        1. kalibr
          13 November 2021 18: 19
          +1
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          passed to the gland.

          Is Denmark Scandinavia?
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 13 November 2021 20: 21
            +2
            Quote: kalibr
            Is Denmark Scandinavia?

            smile
            Scandinavia ... And there was bronze ... smile
            But this is a separate Scandinavia. Special. smile
    4. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 13 November 2021 13: 53
      +4
      Let's just say: in both Americas, Chalcolithic did not crawl out until the arrival of the Spaniards, and in the Old World there was no Chalcolithic as such, and this term has not been used in scientific literature since the late 90s.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 13 November 2021 14: 40
        +4
        and this term has not been used in scientific literature since the late 90s.

        Is The Cambridge Ancient History non-scientific literature?
        1. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 13 November 2021 15: 04
          +3
          This is an outdated reference. Strongly so outdated. Patched a hundred times, and still long outdated in a heap of points, dates, interpretations, and interpretations.
          You most likely have a translated edition of the 82nd year.
          But the concept of "Eneolithic", as I have already said, was canceled at the level of publications in scientific journals in 1998, and has not been used even in scientific pop since the mid-XNUMXs.
          The last time changes were made there in 2005, I think.
          In the days of the Internet over telephone wires, Karl!
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 13 November 2021 15: 13
            +5
            Can you use the term Chalcolithic?
            1. vladcub
              vladcub 13 November 2021 17: 38
              +2
              Vic Nick, what does it mean in Russian?
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 13 November 2021 17: 42
                +4
                The same as the copper age (χαλκός - copper + λίθος - stone).
            2. AllBiBek
              AllBiBek 13 November 2021 17: 44
              +1
              In the coming years, it will be the main one generally accepted in relation to the transition from the Neolithic to the Bronze; further, it will most likely be divided into chalcolithic and epineolithic.
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 13 November 2021 17: 49
                +5
                And what is the difference in semantic content between the terms Eneolithic and Chalcolithic?
                1. AllBiBek
                  AllBiBek 13 November 2021 18: 04
                  +2
                  Whether copper was used as a material for tools or weapons, or a decorative material.
                  The same Ötzi, for example, has a copper ax, moreover, forged from a nugget, but without any traces of use.
                  There are also less well-known examples: for example, the same Volosovo culture (the forerunner of the Voskandan culture) was entered into the Eneolithic, and then into the Chalcolithic only after the discovery of one copper, presumably a fish hook (although, what kind of fish hook is made of copper?).
                  And there is a lot of that, for any region and period.
                  The fact that in the same Black Sea region the Middle Bronze is often older than the Early one has already been reconciled, but something must be done about it, for a long time
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 13 November 2021 18: 12
                    +5
                    Whether copper was used as a material for tools or weapons, or a decorative material.

                    So from this criterion in relation to the definition of the Eneolithic, they proceeded back in the days of the USSR.
                    1. AllBiBek
                      AllBiBek 13 November 2021 18: 19
                      +1
                      Well, in fact, the fact of finding copper in general - it was brought into the Eneolithic.
                      1. Undecim
                        Undecim 13 November 2021 18: 35
                        +1
                        "According to the criteria of archaeological periodization, the Eneolithic should be understood as the era of the introduction and widespread use of copper products, leading, as a rule, to the degradation of the flint industry, the impoverishment of sets of stone tools."

                        Does this somehow dissonant with the modern interpretation of the Chalcolithic era?
                      2. AllBiBek
                        AllBiBek 13 November 2021 18: 57
                        0
                        Naturally.
                        Industries do not degrade with the proliferation of copper tools, for example. And due to the formation of centers for the primary splitting of raw materials and the development of trade in them.
                        For the Early Bronze, for example, for the entire Mediterranean - 7 centers of stone cleavage near large deposits (5 flint, and 2 obsidian), and all other operations from ready-made plates in place.
                        This is not a regression of the stone industries, this is the development of the institution of the division of labor and semi-finished products.
                      3. Undecim
                        Undecim 13 November 2021 19: 03
                        +3
                        I see no logic in your statement from which it follows that the production of stone tools degraded not as a result of the development and wider use of copper tools, but as a result of the division of labor.
                      4. AllBiBek
                        AllBiBek 13 November 2021 19: 15
                        0
                        So the fact of the matter is that there was no wider distribution of copper.
                        And in Bronze with bronze tools - not a lot. With weapons - yes, with guns - no.
                        In peasant life, Bronze is the same Neolithic.
                        Massively bronze tools in everyday life are already the Early Iron.
                        And in between - the Catastrophe of the Bronze Age.
                        Do you understand what I'm driving at?
                      5. Undecim
                        Undecim 13 November 2021 19: 35
                        0
                        If you tend to think that the Eneolithic is a transitional period from the Stone to the Bronze Age, then this is also not new.
                      6. AllBiBek
                        AllBiBek 13 November 2021 20: 19
                        -1
                        Yes, there was no Eneolithic, copper tools were never widespread, even in places of its extraction.
                        And the Chalcolithic has its own nuances, it differs from the Neolithic a little more than nothing in terms of inventory, the social level is different there.
                      7. Undecim
                        Undecim 13 November 2021 20: 42
                        +2
                        Yes there was no Eneolithic

                        As far as I noticed from publications, while science has not yet gone to such a revolutionary change and the Eneolithic has not been canceled, it still takes its place in archaeological periodization. But science does not stand still. Maybe they will.
                2. Liam
                  Liam 13 November 2021 18: 44
                  +1
                  Quote: Undecim
                  And what is the difference in semantic content between the terms Eneolithic and Chalcolithic?

                  None. Eneolithic, Chalcolithic and Cuprolite are synonyms. True, in the European scientific literature, the term Chalcolith is practically not used, while the term is common for Middle Eastern archaeologists
          2. Undecim
            Undecim 13 November 2021 15: 18
            +3
            You most likely have a translated edition of the 82nd year.

            I have the original from different years of publication.
  11. hohol95
    hohol95 13 November 2021 10: 45
    +6
    Cain offered the fruits that he had grown. Which I was proud of. But this sacrifice was not the one that he was ordered to bring to the sacrificial altar.
    So he was indignant at this. And his mind was clouded ...
    No one dared to paint him as a strangler - probably none of the artists practiced such a thing.
    They could wave a stick or a club since childhood.
    And the bones of the dead animals were not so sharp objects of the landscape.
    Only contemporary artists cannot master biblical themes!
    "Nature" is not the same ...
    They would only have to fill their own worth with "coming-outs" !!!
    But to the amusement of the crowds from BLM and "multi-colored", the newfangled "Mazilkin" may well mock - "White-skinned Cain kills a black transgender Abel (dressed in a ballet tutu) with what is sold in 18+ stores"
    1. kalibr
      13 November 2021 11: 01
      +7
      Quote: hohol95
      "White Cain Kills Black Transgender Abel

      + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
      By the way, the Bible says that a certain Onan poured a seed on the ground and God killed him for this! Good reason to think ...
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 13 November 2021 11: 23
        +4
        I don't remember how Onan's life ended. But I remember that according to the law, the wife of his deceased elder brother passed on to him. And she did not "inspire" him at all for carnal pleasures! So he "threw the seed on the ground" so as not to bother with raising children from his "unloved" wife.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 13 November 2021 12: 11
          +2
          Quote: hohol95
          I don't remember how Onan's life ended. But I remember that according to the law, the wife of his deceased elder brother passed on to him. And she did not "inspire" him at all for carnal pleasures! So he "threw the seed on the ground" so as not to bother with raising children from his "unloved" wife.

          As for the obligation to marry the brother's widow - the custom still exists (no one, however, adheres to it), it is called Halitsa)).
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 13 November 2021 12: 19
            +3
            It turns out that the owners of Elsinore were Jews! belay laughing
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 13 November 2021 16: 10
              +1
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              It turns out that the owners of Elsinore were Jews! belay laughing

              Yeah, to be or not to be? that's the question ... poor Yosik
          2. hohol95
            hohol95 13 November 2021 12: 26
            +3
            So widows "beaten by moths of life" do not impress applicants ...
            repeat
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 13 November 2021 16: 12
              +1
              Moreover, those who know from the words of the late brother of all the cockroaches in their head by name lol
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 13 November 2021 16: 22
                +2
                From these "cockroaches" and "gone into another world" ...
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 13 November 2021 17: 00
                  +2
                  Quote: hohol95
                  From these "cockroaches" and "gone into another world" ...

                  As a rule
      2. AllBiBek
        AllBiBek 13 November 2021 13: 55
        +2
        In the Bible?
        Onan is like a Greek deity.
        However, according to Herodotus, among the same Athenians, the hymn began with the word "Yahweh", and it was this word that sounded from a cloud heading towards Salamis shortly before the battle with him.
        1. kalibr
          13 November 2021 18: 21
          +1
          Quote: AllBiBek
          In the Bible?

          That's it!
      3. Yurahip
        Yurahip 13 November 2021 14: 19
        +4
        For squandering the seed fund, however ...
        1. bk0010
          bk0010 13 November 2021 17: 19
          +1
          And the connection with an alien class element - the kulak.
  12. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 13 November 2021 11: 29
    +5
    In the Jewish tradition, it is believed that a stone
    1. Thrifty
      Thrifty 13 November 2021 11: 53
      +3
      He kissed him to death wassat
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 13 November 2021 12: 09
        +5
        This was much later. For 30 Serebrennikov. And then with this money it was possible to buy a plot of land (rather big) in a good place in Jerusalem. And now 30 shekels is falafel and cola. So wonder why Bibi was thrown off with such inflation am
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 13 November 2021 13: 20
          +6
          And now 30 shekels is falafel and cola.

          The cookie basket and the traitor's jam barrel look more impressive! bully Albert, greetings! drinks
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 13 November 2021 16: 14
            +4
            Quote: Pan Kohanku
            And now 30 shekels is falafel and cola.

            The cookie basket and the traitor's jam barrel look more impressive! bully Albert, greetings! drinks

            Greetings, Nikolay! hi
            This is already 60 shekels at least ... negative
  13. bubalik
    bubalik 13 November 2021 11: 47
    +4
    the fact that Abel's brother hacked to death with a sword?

    ,,, metal tools (neither bronze, let alone iron) in that chronology have not yet been invented. The first blacksmith in the world is officially listed as a man named Tuvalkain, who is a descendant of Cain in the 6th tribe.
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 13 November 2021 13: 22
      +6
      ,,, metal tools (neither bronze, let alone iron) in that chronology have not yet been invented.

      Sergei, gratuti! drinks It reminded me that the Hermitage has a hall dedicated to the weapons of the ancient Caucasus. Bronze daggers, axes - shine!
      1. bubalik
        bubalik 13 November 2021 14: 41
        +5
        Good day!
        The qihada, charraska, or jawbone (in English) is an idiophonic percussion instrument made from the jawbone of a donkey, horse, or bovine mule that emits a powerful buzzing sound. The jawbone is cleaned of tissue and dried to loosen the teeth and act like a rattle. It is used in music in most of Latin America, including Mexico, Peru, El Salvador, Ecuador, and Cuba, and was also historically used in the early American minstrel show.

        ,,, musical instrument murder weapon belay
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 14 November 2021 19: 28
          +3
          ,,, musical instrument murder weapon

          To be killed by a rattle ... belay It somehow reminded me of the most ridiculous monarch's death - Peter III's great-uncle, the Swedish king Adolf Fredrik. He died after gorging himself on buns ... True, buns only completed an overly nourishing dinner! fellow
          1. bubalik
            bubalik 14 November 2021 19: 36
            +2
            minstrel show
            ,,, here is Anton's secret weapon. bully
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 14 November 2021 19: 38
              +2
              ,,, here is Anton's secret weapon.

              Oh, how dangerous he is ... belay It is clear now that he was writing about the ax and the sword all the time, but real minnesingers have a secret "yay" technique - quickly, with one sudden movement, they blow the opponent's head off with a mandolin! fellow drinks
  14. depressant
    depressant 13 November 2021 12: 43
    +4
    No, I do not stand on the fact that man was specially created by God or by aliens. I am based on the idea of ​​a variety of random, very small deviations in DNA that are characteristic of different species of animals.
    So how did a man suddenly happen to be different from a monkey?
    For example, one of the monkeys guessed to take a stone in his hand, or a stick and knock down a high hanging fruit. Do you think that the whole flock, looking at her successful experience, immediately took sticks or stones in their hands, in general, what would come up, and began to do the same thing - to knock down fruit? Nothing of the kind! The flock rushed to take the fruit away from the one who guessed it. The experience turned out to be unclaimed, it was simply not remembered! And this "monkey" case of a knocked-down fruit, reproduced for millions of years, did not become a reason for reproduction as an intelligent flocking behavior, a common experience of a monkey flock. Therefore, until now, only individual monkeys knock down fruits, and the rest are in no hurry to imitate them.
    In my opinion, a person initially turned out to be different from a monkey by the ability to flock learning through his natural inclination to imitate, significantly superior to the monkey. Someone succeeded in something, and the flock adopted this experience for reproduction. Even having unfairly taken away the knocked down fruit from a successful one, the flock, thanks to a high level of imitation, remembered how to get that fruit with a stick or stone. And although not all individuals remembered and it was far from all those who remembered it turned out, but for some individuals of the human flock, the experience was fixed and was passed on to subsequent generations through the imitation of the younger elders.
    And if the experience of monkeys is still being lost, then in humans the experience of successful activity related to survival, although it accumulated slowly at first, was not lost. This was the initial difference between man and ape - an increased ability to imitate, leading to the gradual development of memory and, perhaps, not special, but only based on imitation, the transfer of acquired new skills to subsequent generations.
    It was the childhood of mankind. A small group of a kindergarten, in which the experience and knowledge of one person is immediately transferred to others, and not only learned from the teacher.
    Which is the basis of the modern education system. Yes, everything is supposed to be. For example, in fashion. It seems to me that envy is from the same place.
    Monkeys have no fashion.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 13 November 2021 14: 44
      +7
      So how did a man suddenly happen to be different from a monkey?

      If you look, for example, the content of the comments in the "News" section of the VO website, then the solution to the question of how the monkey became a man is no longer relevant. Finding a way to stop the reverse process becomes urgent.
      1. depressant
        depressant 13 November 2021 15: 33
        +4
        I do not know how to stop the process you have indicated, but the fact that it has started is obvious. I believe that having passed all the stages of human development, humanity as a whole is at the stage of abrupt aging and transition to a state of senile marasmus.
        A new Bottleneck, like the one that drove us through 75 thousand years ago, will weed out the nonviable. The only question is the criterion of survival. At that time, the smart and physically strong survived. And now?
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 13 November 2021 15: 36
          +6
          At that time, the smart and physically strong survived. And now?

          Smart ones are not needed for sure.
      2. kalibr
        13 November 2021 15: 39
        +3
        Quote: Undecim
        Finding a way to stop the reverse process becomes urgent.

        ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +
    2. bk0010
      bk0010 13 November 2021 17: 23
      +3
      Quote: depressant
      So how did a man suddenly happen to be different from a monkey?
      A mutation that increased the volume of the brain. The increased number of neurons was used for intrigue in the primitive hominid pack.
      Quote: depressant
      Do you think that the whole flock, looking at her successful experience, immediately took sticks or stones in their hands, in general, what would come up, and began to do the same thing - to knock down fruit?
      The monkey became a man when he picked up a stick and made another monkey work.
      1. depressant
        depressant 13 November 2021 17: 35
        +1
        The monkey became a man when he picked up a stick and made another monkey work.

        And you can’t argue! wassat )))
        1. A. Privalov
          A. Privalov 13 November 2021 18: 50
          +1
          Quote: depressant
          The monkey became a man when he picked up a stick and made another monkey work.

          And you can’t argue! wassat )))

        2. observer76
          observer76 14 November 2021 00: 16
          -1
          How can you argue?
      2. observer76
        observer76 14 November 2021 00: 16
        -1
        Even primates who have thrown off their tail and learned to express something verbally are extremely far from humans.
    3. Illanatol
      Illanatol 14 November 2021 14: 13
      +1
      So how did a man suddenly happen to be different from a monkey?


      According to some physiological and biochemical parameters, a person is closer to a pig than to a monkey.
      In short, the humanoids crossed the two species, and the offspring inherited the "virtues" of these ancestors. tongue

      "Man is a bald monkey, burdened with reason and pig habits."
  15. iouris
    iouris 13 November 2021 12: 56
    +2
    In most cases, this is a kitchen knife.
    Statistics!
  16. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 13 November 2021 12: 56
    +3
    I wonder why Cain, like a true macho, is dressed in a bare-assed skin, and his wife is in the fabric of the Renaissance pattern!


    Anatomism in Cain. And don't argue!
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 13 November 2021 13: 11
      +5
      All the "meager" funds went to his wife.
      And in general, farming is a risky enterprise!
      Either drought, or locusts or bro's sheep ...
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 13 November 2021 13: 21
        +5
        All the "meager" funds went to his wife.

        A man's lot, Alexey! wink drinks
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 13 November 2021 13: 24
          +4
          A married man ...
          A lonely person can bypass this "side" drinks
          And just "order cleaning in cleaning offices"! good
          Pay and ... rejoice!
          Or keep the entire family budget with you and dress your wife in "homespun rags" woven from lessons from TikTok and YouTube!
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 13 November 2021 13: 52
            +3
            Alyosha, would you personally want to dress like that?
            1. hohol95
              hohol95 13 November 2021 13: 59
              +5
              Good day! hi
              Could you formulate the question more specifically?
              Am I ready to dress in a skin or "homespun rags"?
              After all, it all depends on the time and place of residence. wink .
              1. Astra wild2
                Astra wild2 13 November 2021 15: 16
                +4
                Bravo, well answered. It all depends on the place of residence and the historical era
                1. hohol95
                  hohol95 13 November 2021 16: 38
                  +2
                  Sometimes the types and shape of "rags" depends on the harmful factors present at work. And its quality depends on the price that is willing to pay for the "uniform". And then one wash and "rags" decreases in size and becomes a faded "rag" ...
                  1. Astra wild2
                    Astra wild2 13 November 2021 16: 40
                    +3
                    I know that well
                    1. hohol95
                      hohol95 13 November 2021 17: 01
                      +2
                      Likewise, personally, I do not chase "brands".
                      I did not follow the fashion and do not follow - personal convenience, body perception and most importantly "price / quality".
          2. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 13 November 2021 14: 21
            +5
            Or keep the entire family budget with you and dress your wife in "homespun rags" woven from lessons from TikTok and YouTube!

            Alexey, you're right, as always. good Someone will be a redneck, someone will be a knight ... repeat True, chivalry is very often narrow-minded ... what
            1. hohol95
              hohol95 13 November 2021 14: 31
              +4
              And in what way is "distant" or "deep" chivalry expressed ??? what
              In the Soviet cartoon "Very Blue Beard", the "main defendant" tried to please all his three wives, but - "Sorry, dear! It happened so ..."
              And, as one of the characters in the film said "I can't say goodbye" - "If what's wrong in the family - there is always a demand from both ..."
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 13 November 2021 16: 40
          +3
          Quote: Pan Kohanku
          All the "meager" funds went to his wife.

          A man's lot, Alexey! wink drinks

          A man should spend no more than 30% of his income on women, of which 7/10 for a young mistress and beautiful escort girls, 2/10 for his wife and 1/10 for the necessary aunts / for the lack of a variety of fish. The rest is for children / home / business development / investment in passive income and self-development. hi
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 13 November 2021 17: 03
            +3
            Then you just have to be a Rothschild, not Ponyatovsky after the revolution !!!
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 13 November 2021 17: 13
              +3
              Quote: hohol95
              Then you just have to be a Rothschild, not Ponyatovsky after the revolution !!!

              In this case, for the wife 6% of the salary (30% x0,2) wink
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 13 November 2021 17: 17
                +3
                So that Ponyatovsky does not come out of Rothschild?
                recourse
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 13 November 2021 17: 21
                  +2
                  Quote: hohol95
                  So that Ponyatovsky does not come out of Rothschild?
                  recourse

                  Including therefore yes
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 13 November 2021 17: 28
                    +3
                    Her husband died a millionaire!
                    But she married a billionaire !!! good
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 13 November 2021 20: 00
                      +1
                      More often in a different way - from dollar billionaires to ruble
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 13 November 2021 20: 21
                        +1
                        Become ruble millionaires ...
                        Or just holders of rubles ...
                        Zhukov-Abramovich minus 70 billion rubles!
                        Besharova from Berezovsky "got" a house for 16 million dollars and from 160 to 220 million pounds, which are sterling ...
                        It’s hard for militiamen and miarders to live !!!
                        Everyone wants to snatch a "PIECE OF GANDHI" ...
          2. hohol95
            hohol95 13 November 2021 17: 05
            +3
            Does your wife agree with this conclusion? winked
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 13 November 2021 17: 13
              +3
              I'm not like that
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 13 November 2021 17: 16
                +3
                Does she spend her money on you?
                For example - does your joint travel on public transport pay for itself?
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 13 November 2021 17: 20
                  +3
                  Yes, she also pampers with doshirakami
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 13 November 2021 17: 27
                    +3
                    But you are, however, "hardened Alfonsische"! belay
                    You spin the poor woman for food ... drinks
                    tongue
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 13 November 2021 17: 38
                      +3
                      And lyuboff. For a doshirak drinks
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 13 November 2021 17: 48
                        +3
                        The main thing is to dry the "broth cubes" from "Knorr" or "Maggi" do not gnaw ...
                        And she is such a luboff - to whom "Doshirak", and to whom "Cutlet in Kievski". crying
                      2. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 13 November 2021 18: 07
                        +2
                        Quote: hohol95
                        The main thing is to dry the "broth cubes" from "Knorr" or "Maggi" do not gnaw ...
                        And she is such a luboff - to whom "Doshirak", and to whom "Cutlet in Kievski". crying

                        I have to do it for Doshirak. crying
              2. hohol95
                hohol95 13 November 2021 17: 30
                +3
                And what kind of "are you" - what
                A joke of humor.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 13 November 2021 18: 08
                  +2
                  Quote: hohol95
                  And what kind of "are you" - what
                  A joke of humor.

                  Do not expect. lol Mischievous.
  17. Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 13 November 2021 13: 50
    +2
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, colleagues, good afternoon. Through various tricks, but penetrated into History. I was offered: News, Analytics and materials about migrants.
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, you are good at materials about weapons in the paintings
    1. kalibr
      13 November 2021 15: 40
      +3
      Quote: Astra wild2
      You are good at materials about weapons in pictures

      This is because I am attentive to the little things!
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 13 November 2021 16: 45
        +2
        I know that you are a hardworking and considerate person. Otherwise, you could not write so much
  18. Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 13 November 2021 13: 55
    +2
    Quote: Thrifty
    He kissed him to death wassat

    Is he a fagot?
    1. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 13 November 2021 15: 07
      +3
      Was a kiss somewhere an element of sexual foreplay in those days?
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 13 November 2021 16: 54
        +1
        And you imagine sexual relations without a kiss. I can not imagine
        1. bk0010
          bk0010 13 November 2021 17: 26
          +3
          Quote: Astra wild2
          And you imagine sexual relations without a kiss. I can not imagine
          This is a European feature, many countries (before the spread of pornography, probably) did without it.
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 13 November 2021 18: 11
            +5
            But straight away the question! When did it arise, this ... pornography? After all, even the communist everything is Tatra! Doesn't know what the communist Kollontai did, at ... let's just say, at her leisure! wink
            1. Astra wild2
              Astra wild2 14 November 2021 14: 48
              +2
              Perhaps he guesses
            2. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 14 November 2021 19: 42
              +1
              Doesn't know what the communist Kollontai was doing, at ... let's say, at her leisure!

              Sergei, I will tell you - I tumbled with the loving bearded man Dybenko. bully Interclass love! fellow There are streets named after them in the Nevsky District of St. Petersburg, running parallel to each other ... wink
              1. Shahno
                Shahno 14 November 2021 19: 46
                +1
                Well, the city should remember its heroes ..
        2. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 13 November 2021 17: 54
          +2
          So these are your difficulties, not those who lived before.
          The kiss between a man and a woman was invented in Rome, as a test of whether a wife ate garlic without her husband; it was considered a strong aphrodisiac, and the fact of its use in secret from the husband could indicate marital infidelity.
          And so, the Mongols over there still lick each other's cheeks in the steppe, the Chukchi rub their noses, and there are still hundreds of cultures where there is no kiss.
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 13 November 2021 18: 01
            +5
            And if we take as a basis ... that a girl is simply bored ... without kisses? wink Well .... no, no, no! I will not go further! laughing
            1. AllBiBek
              AllBiBek 13 November 2021 18: 08
              +2
              Well, maybe go to a fresh horse mane to chew. It will be approximately.
              There, oral hygiene is symbolic, and teeth have rotted since adolescence, and a beard with a shovel.
              Shaving facial hair was a song in those days, it is difficult, and the materials are expensive, and painful, and expensive.
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 13 November 2021 18: 14
                +4
                Man, this is advice for ... women ???? wink
                1. AllBiBek
                  AllBiBek 13 November 2021 18: 31
                  +2
                  Well, if she craves for kisses in her sexual fantasies ... With regard to biblical times, this is the same as in our time in sexual fantasies wanting to play sweethearts during intercourse.
                  Pathology in general.
              2. Phil77
                Phil77 13 November 2021 18: 20
                +4
                My friend! And what's not a topic ???? When the men began to shave .... the physiognomy of the face? Like, why? And .... what excites us with the shaved genitals of the female? laughing
                Oh and bastard, me? laughing
              3. Phil77
                Phil77 13 November 2021 18: 37
                +2
                Pay no attention! Vera. This is ... Vera. And? Cleo. Yes! Ssss!
            2. Astra wild2
              Astra wild2 13 November 2021 18: 18
              +2
              You're right. I am still a young widow
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 13 November 2021 18: 31
                +3
                "young widow." Well, and? Do you know the song? Tersk Cossacks?
                1. Astra wild2
                  Astra wild2 14 November 2021 14: 46
                  +1
                  I have nothing to do with the Cossacks.
          2. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 13 November 2021 18: 17
            +1
            Didn't know such a detail
        3. kalibr
          13 November 2021 18: 24
          +2
          Quote: Astra wild2
          Can you imagine sexual relations without a kiss

          Many peoples did not even know the kiss !!! And yet they knew all the rest.
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 13 November 2021 16: 44
      +5
      Quote: Astra wild2
      Quote: Thrifty
      He kissed him to death wassat

      Is he a fagot?

      Yes, in those days, pre-biblical, people didn't bother too much - boy / girl, aunt / uncle, donkey / donkey .. laughing
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 13 November 2021 17: 22
        +5
        In Faith, civilization speaks. What kiss? What love? Basic instinct! "Why do we need a blacksmith?" laughing
        Hi Albert!
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 13 November 2021 17: 25
          +3
          Quote: Phil77
          In Faith, civilization speaks. What kiss? What love? Basic instinct! "Why do we need a blacksmith?" laughing
          Hi Albert!

          Hi, glad to see you! hi
          Yes, what love ... "big and pure" (c)
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 13 November 2021 17: 30
            +5
            Mutually, my friend! Big and clean ... Oh, damn sorry that this is already in the past. But! Memories! Here they really warm the soul. Here Mironov's verses from "The Straw Hat" immediately come to mind. wink
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 13 November 2021 18: 48
              +3
              Quote: Phil77
              Mutually, my friend! Big and clean ... Oh, damn sorry that this is already in the past. But! Memories! Here they really warm the soul. Here Mironov's verses from "The Straw Hat" immediately come to mind. wink

              Georgette, Velvet))
      2. Hunter 2
        Hunter 2 13 November 2021 18: 45
        +4
        Quote: Krasnodar

        Yes, in those days, pre-biblical, people didn't bother too much - boy / girl, aunt / uncle, donkey / donkey .. laughing

        Hmm ... for an expert on biblical times and an emigrant from biblical territories a question - Isn't it Contagious ??? belay
        Hi Albert drinks your "circle" of perverts comments laughing - fun debates. Everyone on the plus sign, but I'm not that ... so - an observer! sad
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 13 November 2021 18: 52
          +3
          Quote: Hunter 2

          Hmm ... for an expert on biblical times and an emigrant from biblical territories a question - Isn't it Contagious ???

          Greetings, Alex! hi
          It is you to me, as a person who has been on long business trips to the regions, where "donkey / donkey", you can tell me in more detail and competently and in paints yes
          Quote: Hunter 2
          Hi Albert, your "circle" of comment perverts has a hilarious debate. Everyone on the plus sign, but I'm not that ... so - an observer!

          Come on - do you want to confess something? laughing drinks
          1. Hunter 2
            Hunter 2 13 November 2021 19: 06
            +1
            Quote: Krasnodar

            It is you to me, as a person who has been on long business trips to the regions, where "donkey / donkey", you can tell me in more detail and competently and in paints yes :

            belay I was not there on the "sex tour"! And in general he was young and shy repeat
            Quote: Krasnodar

            Come on - do you want to confess something? laughing drinks

            am Fie on You !!! laughing
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 13 November 2021 19: 43
              +1
              Quote: Hunter 2

              I was not there on the "sex tour"! And in general he was young and shy

              But you watched the rich and distinctive life of the area, and with an optical magnification yes And what were you ashamed to do at the same time - I don’t ask, I’m delicate))
              Quote: Hunter 2
              Fie on You !!!

              Prankster laughing
        2. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 13 November 2021 19: 21
          0
          "And if a husband gets along with a donkey, let him have nothing for that" © pre-biblical times, Hittite law
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 13 November 2021 19: 44
            +3
            Quote: AllBiBek
            "And if a husband gets along with a donkey, let him have nothing for that" © pre-biblical times, Hittite law

            In addition to unforgettable moments of joy and tenderness lol
            1. AllBiBek
              AllBiBek 13 November 2021 20: 24
              +1
              It follows that for the first time a donkey's jaw was used as a weapon ... Right! Donkey, and in order to protect the honor and dignity of his wife.
        3. Phil77
          Phil77 15 November 2021 17: 14
          +1
          I will intervene, excuse me! But we are just the norm, heterosexual. We love women until they lose consciousness. Women are our everything!
  19. Yurahip
    Yurahip 13 November 2021 14: 17
    +3
    Yes, with a pitchfork, with a pitchfork, he stabbed him, like in a movie ...
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 13 November 2021 17: 32
      +1
      Cobblestone! For? For ... not fig! laughing
      1. observer76
        observer76 14 November 2021 00: 11
        +1
        I bit it with my teeth. wink
  20. vladcub
    vladcub 13 November 2021 14: 37
    +5
    Comrades, I would venture to suggest that Cain killed his brother with his fist. Do you remember Lermontov's: "Song about the merchant Kalashnikov"? And we had a case in the village: the men quarreled with each other with a fist and "instantly into the sea", and he was already about 60, now I don't remember how old he was. I remember that men who are 10-15 years younger and so strong, but preferred not to touch Uncle Semu. Harmful to health
    1. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 13 November 2021 15: 09
      +3
      In archaic cultures - and there is still an archaic culture - strikes on the enemy (all the more so with such a delicate part of the body as an unaccustomed fist) are not practiced at all. There are struggles of all kinds.
      Fist fights are an invention of the Middle Ages.
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 13 November 2021 16: 27
        +4
        Do not compare your pampered palm and the palm of a man of that time. Then people had rough hands and were accustomed to various works.
        1. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 13 November 2021 17: 47
          0
          Do not extend your fantasies about my hands and the strong, rough masculine hands of that era to reality.
          What kind of wear and tear of which bones of the hands is there, and what activity it is associated with - I know better than you, and I do not fantasize about it.
          What it is similar to confirmed fist fighters - I, for comparison, also studied.
      2. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 13 November 2021 16: 51
        +6
        Quote: AllBiBek
        In archaic cultures - and there is still an archaic culture - strikes on the enemy (all the more so with such a delicate part of the body as an unaccustomed fist) are not practiced at all. There are struggles of all kinds.
        Fist fights are an invention of the Middle Ages.

        Ustakanivanie (certain restrictions on wrestling during makhach) fist fights took place in the late Middle Ages. In Greek pankration, in addition to wrestling, there were punches and even kicks (at a practical lower level, not higher than the lower abdomen), according to legend, borrowing from the Hindus. Chinese martial arts originated from them. The striking technique of Muay Thai, Burmese boxing, and the Filipino pinchak silat (in addition to the striking technique of sticks) also originated in antiquity.
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 13 November 2021 17: 38
          +3
          And what if the alternative option is pain shock? laughing
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 13 November 2021 18: 10
            +3
            Quote: Phil77
            And what if the alternative option is pain shock? laughing

            BDSM-FIFA-LGBT
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 13 November 2021 18: 32
              +2
              No !!!!! This is a normal submarine !!!!!! Was it ???
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 13 November 2021 18: 45
                +2
                Quote: Phil77
                No !!!!! This is a normal submarine !!!!!! Was it ???

                Normal? laughing Shaw this lad wants from the judge? laughing
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 15 November 2021 17: 16
                  +2
                  From the judge ????? Vinnie Jones wants Gascoigne!
        2. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 13 November 2021 17: 50
          +2
          The Indians in kalari payyat seem to be like blows with the base of the palm, and the first confirmed contacts with the Chinese are already our era.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 13 November 2021 18: 15
            +4
            Quote: AllBiBek
            The Indians in kalari payyat seem to be like blows with the base of the palm, and the first confirmed contacts with the Chinese are already our era.

            There is a blow from above with a "hammer", but in general Kalari-payat is the general name for a type of karate. There are different styles, with different percussion techniques. As for contacts with the Chinese - I don't know how historically, but Bradhidharma, yes, 5th century AD. In Real, I think, everything was much earlier, they are close to Tibet, close by sea, trade, warehouses, merchants for permanent residence, etc.
            1. AllBiBek
              AllBiBek 13 November 2021 18: 46
              +1
              The trade would be archaeologically tracked, even sporadic.
              And for the most part, the Silk Road by sea is already Arabs and this is already the 9-10th century of ours.
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 13 November 2021 18: 56
                +3
                Quote: AllBiBek
                The trade would be archaeologically tracked, even sporadic.
                And for the most part, the Silk Road by sea is already Arabs and this is already the 9-10th century of ours.

                How do you distinguish between an Indian merchant for permanent residence, with a Chinese staff and vice versa? On the typical for China / India shards from the promise in the country of work? With a high probability, they came with the goods and took all the utensils on the spot, they did not make colonies
                1. AllBiBek
                  AllBiBek 13 November 2021 19: 09
                  +1
                  Well, how is it?
                  How lucky, of course)).
                  Or not lucky, and whether anyone will be lucky during my life - I do not know.
                  Archaeologists are in no hurry.
      3. Korsar4
        Korsar4 13 November 2021 17: 32
        +4
        But what about the fist fight Polidevka with Amik?
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 13 November 2021 17: 42
          +4
          Interestingly, who gave them the fighting technique? laughing Instinct again? laughing
          Good evening, Sergei! hi
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 13 November 2021 18: 51
            +4
            Good evening, Seryozha!

            In "Iliad" fistfights are mentioned. If you trained, then there was someone to train.
        2. Phil77
          Phil77 13 November 2021 17: 46
          +3
          Yes, buddy. As for The Quiet Don, have you read Gubin?
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 13 November 2021 18: 47
            +2
            Quote: Phil77
            Yes, buddy. As for The Quiet Don, have you read Gubin?

            Quiet Don did not go with me laughing
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 13 November 2021 18: 51
              +1
              Al, my friend! Gubin wrote just a family of Cossacks, Terskikh. Have not read? Oh, right !!!!! Worth it, buddy !!!!
          2. Korsar4
            Korsar4 13 November 2021 18: 56
            +2
            I haven't read it, Seryozha. The first time I heard from you.
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 14 November 2021 05: 51
              +2
              The book is great! I recommend and envy. For ... you will come across a BOOK!
        3. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 13 November 2021 17: 58
          +4
          There the wrapping of the hands with leather belts, and a hard one. With hand fixation.
          Note, killed with a blow to the ear. The forearm in place with a brush about this technique works with either side like a club with a knob.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 13 November 2021 18: 39
            +1
            Quote: AllBiBek
            There the wrapping of the hands with leather belts, and a hard one. With hand fixation.
            Note, killed with a blow to the ear. The forearm in place with a brush about this technique works with either side like a club with a knob.

            I hit my temple by accident - I was lucky))
            1. AllBiBek
              AllBiBek 13 November 2021 19: 03
              +2
              No, I knew where to hit.
              In the descriptions of the same fist fights for the 19th century, the term "smudge in the ear" is also not just so often used. I suspect that with the correct formulation of such a blow, the enemy will simply be stunned, and strongly and for a long time.
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 13 November 2021 19: 10
                +1
                The blow that took place in the ear at least unbalances, of course, but this guy, most likely, hit the temple with two knuckles. By striking directly and ho, you will not achieve a lethal outcome of the enemy
          2. Korsar4
            Korsar4 13 November 2021 18: 57
            +3
            Yes. They wrapped their hands with belts. This is where the emphasis is placed.
      4. Phil77
        Phil77 13 November 2021 18: 40
        +2
        So, my friend, I insist; Cobblestone?
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 13 November 2021 18: 46
          +3
          Quote: Phil77
          So, my friend, I insist; Cobblestone?

          We Jews think that it is he
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 13 November 2021 18: 53
            +2
            How I love you! ¡
          2. observer76
            observer76 14 November 2021 02: 12
            -1
            No, Jews don't think so.
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 14 November 2021 06: 04
              +2
              Why? laughing Why don't the Jewish people think?bullyI will add that he himself is not a Jew, but there is something in them! No? laughing
              1. observer76
                observer76 14 November 2021 11: 11
                0
                He still thinks that you need to think differently. wink What is in it, it's up to you to think. smile
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 15 November 2021 18: 36
                  +1
                  Eck, you screwed it up. It's just that there is such a people - Jewish. And there is a non-Jewish. Difference? You yourself probably know.
                  1. observer76
                    observer76 15 November 2021 18: 56
                    0
                    I do not argue with the fact that there is a Jewish people. But the non-Jewish peoples are all the rest. There are many differences as well as similarities. I don't even know everything myself.

                    PS But Jewish traditionalists think that all the same with their teeth and for a woman.
  21. Normal ok
    Normal ok 13 November 2021 14: 50
    +3
    AUTHOR, Bible. -story about relationship[b] [/ b] man with God! If you want specific prescriptions and stories, read the Quran.
    1. kalibr
      13 November 2021 15: 41
      +4
      Quote: Normal ok
      If you want specific prescriptions and stories, read the Quran.

      I want "pictures" on a topic that interests me ...
  22. depressant
    depressant 13 November 2021 15: 22
    +5
    Monkeys do not collect or store stones and objects that look like monkeys. In the excavations of camps, 700 thousand years old, stones similar to human figurines are found. And even attempts have been noticed to put on these natural formations some kind of artistic considerations of their own with something sharp. Moreover, from objects of this kind forgotten in the camps, archaeologists have established that primitive man, moving to a new camp, took these figures with him, not yet knowing how to make them himself. But he decided that nature imitates him, a person, so imitation is important, and this is the beginning of a glimpse of abstract thinking, which in a modern child begins to take shape at the age of 10.
    Glimpses of such a consciousness in humanity were noticed 75 thousand years ago. Before mankind, either thanks to the Toba volcano, or because of another cataclysm, climbed into the Bottle Neck and, having passed through it, remained in the amount of 2 - 3 thousand people. Apparently, the smartest remained.
    In the last article, Viktor Nikolaevich commented on a drawing on a stone in the form of parallel stripes. Apparently, it was like this: I looked at one - aha, alive, we put a strip; looked at another - alive, put a strip, etc. it was a bill, Viktor Nikolaevich!
    And then how it burst.
    Already quite complex ornaments, painted ostrich eggs, etc. Humanity, devoid of burdensome fools, began to rapidly develop its own abstract thinking. And so that there were no more fools, a strict ban on intra-family marriages was adopted, and the Neanderthal, who widely sinned in this, but did not impose the ban, quickly died out.
    Well, then the story quickly went on its own course, realizing the program of imitation inherent in human DNA. And it doesn't matter on what continents parts of humanity lived. Where there were conditions, development proceeded at a rapid pace. But if we compare with an individual person, then the current humanity - at what stage?
    Old age? After all, the gay youth of mankind passed through the Middle Ages. Maturity is the 19th and 20th centuries. And ahead is a new Bottle Neck, and what I see on the forum is a feast during the plague. It's not even funny, although I want to laugh with everyone.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 13 November 2021 19: 01
      +2
      Everyone is at the big table and who is having fun?
      1. depressant
        depressant 13 November 2021 19: 21
        +5
        Exactly! Having fun together, everyone has fun about their own wassat )))
    2. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 13 November 2021 19: 23
      +1
      There is a slightly controversial artifact of such a long time ago.
      Leakey won, too, thought that the round pebbles in the parking lot were Pithecanthropus bolas ...
      1. depressant
        depressant 13 November 2021 19: 40
        +2
        Man was exalted by untruth,
        Defeated by falsehood, like the sun - last year's snow.
        The huge Zero sign prescribes fate
        Go into oblivion so as not to torture yourself.
    3. observer76
      observer76 14 November 2021 00: 09
      -1
      Nobody knows exactly what happened 75 years ago and whether we are descendants of that primate.
  23. Konnick
    Konnick 13 November 2021 15: 52
    +2
    Read, read ... And where is the correct answer?
    My grandmother would have answered this question right away. As a child, she showed me to the moon and told me how during haymaking, having quarreled, Cain raised Abel to a pitchfork. The pitchfork, the most adapted instrument of labor for murder. She got this knowledge from her parents and so on. And now we are trying to remember. At least the pitchfork for the Orthodox, the cudgel for the Catholic.
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 13 November 2021 17: 45
      +3
      Yours is like in "Sad Detective".
      A policeman came to detain a local "bum and drunkard", and he wounded him with a pitchfork for cleaning manure.
    2. observer76
      observer76 14 November 2021 00: 07
      0
      Not a pitchfork, but teeth. Because of the woman, and not so was done after him under the sun.
  24. Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 13 November 2021 15: 57
    +2
    Colleagues, I do not know the Bible, and therefore enlighten: how was Cain punished?
    Katka, I read somewhere that Cain was asked:
    - Where is your brother Abel?
    - I have not seen my brother
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 13 November 2021 16: 52
      +4
      "I'm not my brother's keeper" (c)
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 13 November 2021 17: 54
        +3
        Oh oh oh! Albert, honestly, but I want to add a quote, the most, the most famous! From Balabanov's film. For? Because Moscow is turning into .... a kishlak. Well, my friend understood what I mean. It's scary that these are. ..there is no need for them to occult at all! Why? For what? What an absurd thing / if they know the meaning of the concept / question?
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 13 November 2021 18: 41
          +2
          Quote: Phil77
          Oh oh oh! Albert, honestly, but I want to add a quote, the most, the most famous! From Balabanov's film. For? Because Moscow is turning into .... a kishlak. Well, my friend understood what I mean. It's scary that these are. ..there is no need for them to occult at all! Why? For what? What an absurd thing / if they know the meaning of the concept / question?

          The cost of living in the capital / financial center of the empire yes
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 13 November 2021 19: 48
            +5
            What is she like in the afhedrron empire ??? Imperial ambitions, expressed by the majority of site users by the position "plusuamperfect" (there is such a conjugation of verbs in German) ... But now what? Essentially a banana republic, with a penchant for dictatorship. Do I want to live in such a country? No I do not want to.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 13 November 2021 19: 55
              +4
              In vain. That social, honey. and ped. institutions about anything - I agree. But on the other hand, there are a lot of opportunities. However, if you count on the life of an average European citizen here, then it is understandable - disappointment, but, on the other hand, Russia has never been sharpened for this.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 13 November 2021 20: 38
                +4
                But on the other hand, there are a lot of opportunities.
                Which ones? Honest, definitely not!
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 14 November 2021 08: 10
                  +2
                  Quote: 3x3zsave
                  But on the other hand, there are a lot of opportunities.
                  Which ones? Honest, definitely not!

                  Was everything dishonest for Kaspersky?
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 14 November 2021 08: 56
                    +2
                    Why all? Regarding Kaspersky, one can assume unfair competition and protectionism on the part of law enforcement agencies.
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 14 November 2021 08: 59
                      +3
                      Quote: 3x3zsave
                      Why all? Regarding Kaspersky, one can assume unfair competition and protectionism on the part of law enforcement agencies.

                      These are already details, but for a long time in the world market, I have not heard about competitors in the domestic market
                  2. Liam
                    Liam 14 November 2021 09: 09
                    0
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    Was everything dishonest for Kaspersky?

                    And what is it about this project that cannot be done in any IT startup in non-imperial Israel, for example?) hi
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 14 November 2021 09: 35
                      +2
                      Shalom! hi
                      We are talking about the fact that you can honestly earn money in Russia
                      1. Liam
                        Liam 14 November 2021 14: 38
                        0
                        Hey.
                        Money, you can earn honestly. Salary for example)
                        Lead business and earn big money, no
                      2. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 14 November 2021 17: 45
                        +1
                        You can calmly))
                        The problem is that when your annual income approaches 2 million USD, an attempt to squeeze out your business is almost automatic. Have to defend laughing
                        Therefore, they begin to withdraw money from the country, etc.
                      3. Shahno
                        Shahno 14 November 2021 17: 52
                        0
                        Well, yes. And who created this system? If you have several tens of millions, you are not like that anymore ..
                        Destructive mentality ... Who passed the laws against the middle class? Those who are in power now ..
                      4. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 14 November 2021 18: 00
                        +1
                        Laws against the middle class? An example is it possible?
                      5. Shahno
                        Shahno 14 November 2021 18: 04
                        0
                        Gambling business, production of alcoholic beverages? Do you want document numbers?
                        Ps. Wrong businesses, you mean, and whoever determines it, tomorrow yours will be announced as such.
                      6. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 14 November 2021 18: 48
                        +1
                        Well, what does the middle class have to do with it? ))
                      7. Shahno
                        Shahno 14 November 2021 19: 20
                        +1
                        Well, how they don't wring out in the Russian Federation laughing
                      8. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 14 November 2021 22: 14
                        0
                        If you earn more than a million dollars a year, then you have nothing to do with the middle class neither in Russia, nor in Israel and not even in Monaco. yes
            2. Phil77
              Phil77 14 November 2021 06: 17
              +2
              Anton! Do not touch the empire! Suddenly .... ????? She ???? Our ???? Empire ????
          2. Phil77
            Phil77 14 November 2021 06: 15
            +3
            I am the most humble hired worker .... Master of the RSU. And that says something, right? wink
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 14 November 2021 08: 52
              +2
              Quote: Phil77
              I am the most humble hired worker .... Master of the RSU. And that says something, right? wink

              In any case, life in Moscow has a lot of advantages.
              1. Astra wild2
                Astra wild2 14 November 2021 13: 08
                +2
                Probably once you live in Russia
                Jews are anyone, but cannot and cannot find benefit.
                R.
                S
                Please note, I am not promoting ethnic strife
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 14 November 2021 14: 00
                  +1
                  And where is the interethnic strife? laughing
                  Benefits:
                  Large consumer market;
                  Sparing taxation;
                  There is a lot of money in the country;
                  The country is safe and civilized.
                  Disadvantages:
                  Health care;
                  Social sphere in general.
                  Conclusion:
                  More benefits fellow
    2. A. Privalov
      A. Privalov 13 November 2021 19: 05
      +7
      Quote: Astra wild2
      how was Cain punished?


      By virtue of a divine command, Cain was forced to leave that homeland where God was pleased to reveal His presence in the most tactile way, and turn into a homeless (homeless) wanderer. The place of the new, nomadic habitation of Cain and his offspring is called the land of Nod and is defined in words to the east of Eden. According to some interpreters, the land of Nod is not the proper name of any country, but a common noun designation of the entire Cainite nomadism, as a land of exile and a country of disaster, located, indeed, to the east of Eden, "the land of bliss."

      In modern Hebrew, the word nodEd means "wandering", migratory (birds) - nodedim, a pendulum swinging without stopping, or a swing - nodNedA.
      1. observer76
        observer76 14 November 2021 00: 05
        -1
        In caves underground. He was expelled from the face of the earth. There he wandered. Appearing on the surface rarely and secretly. The mark on his face prevented him from being exterminated by people through fear, but he had to be seen to be afraid. After a lot of time, he disregarded the rules of exile and was killed by Ishmael, about whom it was said that his hand was on everyone and therefore he had no fear of anyone.
      2. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 14 November 2021 10: 06
        +2
        Quote: A. Privalov
        In modern Hebrew, the word nodEd means "wandering", migratory (birds) - noddedim, a pendulum swinging without stopping, or a swing - nodnedA

        I want to correct myself and clarify:
        migratory (birds) are nodfood, and nodedim are nomads.
        In a word, these are all the same root words and expressions.
      3. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 14 November 2021 13: 10
        +2
        Colleague, Privalov thanks
        1. A. Privalov
          A. Privalov 14 November 2021 13: 32
          +2
          You're welcome! hi
    3. observer76
      observer76 14 November 2021 00: 06
      -1
      Read my posts below.
    4. Phil77
      Phil77 14 November 2021 06: 24
      +1
      "I don't know the Bible"
      What, what, interfering with reading it? laughing To be honest, yes! Tricky reading matter. You need to read it, but then !!!
  25. Astra wild2