Military Review

Caves. Spiritual centers of primitive people

138

A wounded buffalo from the ceiling of the Altamira cave. He is 20 thousand years old. There is no question of any "children's scribbles" of primitive man here. The image of the bison figure is not only contour, but also three-dimensional: all the bulges of its massive mascara are shown masterfully! But where the primitiveness of the image is, it is in the absence of a general composition and consistency of images. On the ceiling of the Altamir cave, about two dozen buffaloes, horses and wild boars are painted; and each individual figure is excellent, but how are they located? Some are even drawn upside down, others are superimposed on one another.


And he came to the sheep's pen by the way; there was a cave, and Saul went there for the need; David and his men were sitting in the depths of the cave.
24 Kings 4: XNUMX

Material история our homeland. Last time we visited the "residential caves" where the Neanderthals of the Paleolithic era lived. We got acquainted with the finds made in these caves. However, the significance of the caves for the people of the Stone Age was far from being exhausted. That is, it can be considered proven that they were not only and not so much lived as they were a kind of "centers of spiritual culture" of ancient people, "picturesque galleries" of the Stone Age. Let's visit the most famous caves of this purpose on the territory of our country and in Europe, and see to what level the people of that distant time reached in the development of art.

To begin with, until the middle of the 40th century, no one knew anything about these caves, and when they began to open them, then ... very many did not believe that the drawings that covered their walls were made by primitive people. Well, as today there are people who do not believe that primitive hunters hunted mammoths, so then there were those who believed that they still did not know how to draw. Then, however, under the pressure of facts, I had to agree that the hands of primitive hunters could hold not only an ax and a spear, but also tools for painting. It was proved that the earliest images belong to the Upper Paleolithic, that is, they are at least 20-XNUMX thousand years old. Among the "painted caves" the most famous is perhaps the Altamira cave. Here we will start with her ...

"Bison Altamira"


The Altamira cave is located in Spain (Santillana del Mar, 30 km west of the city of Santadera), but it was discovered in 1879. This is a natural formation, and her drawings are perhaps the most valuable monument of Stone Age art. Moreover, the pictures on its walls have a long history and belong to the Madeleine, Soltureisk, as well as the Gravette and early Aurignacian cultures, which was found out thanks to the uranium-thorium dating method. That is, people visited it for about 22 years, until the main entrance was covered by a landslide.

Caves. Spiritual centers of primitive people
Another bison or Altamirs ...

A significant part of the drawings were made on ... the ceiling, so it was named “Sistine Chapel of Primitive Art". Declared a World Heritage Site by UNESCO in 1985, it has attracted and continues to attract the attention of a huge number of tourists. So, in the 60-70s of the last century, it was visited by up to 1500 people a day, and then there were no fewer of them. As a result, mold started up in it, threatening to destroy valuable images, and a real war had to be waged with it. We decided not to let tourists go there, but to place exact copies of the drawings in the museum next to the cave, which was done in 2001. In addition, copies of drawings from Altamira can be seen in the National Archaeological Museum of Spain in Madrid, as well as in the German Museum in Munich, and in Japan.

As for the cave itself, its length is 270 meters and there are several corridors and halls in it. The main hall is 18 meters long and 2 to 6 meters high. The drawings include bison, horses, wild boars, and human handprints. They are made with coal, as well as ocher, hematite and other mineral paints. Obviously, they were made not only with fingers, but also with the help of special devices made for this purpose. The drawings are on the ceiling and walls of the main hall, as well as in the corridors and other halls. It is interesting that the ancient artists did not just draw, they also skillfully used the natural contours of the walls to create the effect of a three-dimensional image, that is, their thinking was very similar to ours. It is possible that all this painting was of a religious nature. There are also very similar images in the caves of Scandinavia and Northern Italy, that is, there were not so few people who "saw it this way" at that time!

Gargas Cave - "the cave of human hands"


This cave is located in the Hautes Pyrenees in France, belongs to the Gravetian culture, it is 27 thousand years old, it was discovered in 1906 and is interesting in that, in addition to images of animals, many human handprints are present in it. That is, the tradition to write on the walls "Vasya was here!" comes from the Stone Age!


"Palms" from Gargas Cave. What could that mean?

Kapova cave - "camel cave"


The Kapova Cave in Bashkiria is 36 to 18 thousand years old. They began to use it from the Lower Paleolithic era. On its walls, we see images of animals, anthropomorphic and geometric shapes. That is, the rudiments of abstract thinking were evident in her artists. And here we see the oldest and, incidentally, the only image of such an animal as a camel in Europe. It was discovered quite late - in 1959. Research by the Institute of Archeology of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR described 173 drawings. They are made with ocher paint mixed with fat, their age is about 18 years. Anthropomorphic figures are interesting. There are images of huts, triangles, stairs, strange oblique lines. Uranium-thorium dating has shown that the oldest drawings in the Kapova Cave were made 000 years ago.


Horse from the Kapova Cave. Replica from the museum in Brno

Since our tourists actually dirtied the cave, it is closed for free visits. But since July 2012, an interactive kiosk has been set up in the museum on the territory of the reserve where this cave is located, where you can see the most interesting drawings of the cave without going into it.

Montespan Cave Bear


But in the Montespan cave (in France) they also found a "wounded" clay bear, but without a head. But at the feet of the statue lay a real bear skull. That is, the bloody head of a newly killed animal was put to the clay body and ... they conjured. The point is that spearheads and arrowheads were found in the clay. They did not take them out: "the bear took it." That is, everything was probably the same as in the book "The Leaves of the Stone Book" by A.M. Linevsky, where people jumped around the image on the ground and stabbed it with spears, saying: "I hit it now, I'll get it on the hunt!"


Charles R. Knight (1874-1953). "The Artist in the Font de Gam Cave"

Koske Underwater Cave


Coske Cave, located not far from Marseille, is unique in that its entrance is under water at a depth of 37 m, which clearly shows us how great the rise in the Mediterranean Sea level was in the Paleolithic era. Named for the diver Anri Koske, who found her in 1985. However, it was only in 1991 that he managed to pass a 175-meter underwater tunnel and enter the cave itself. But in the summer of 1992, three amateur divers died in this tunnel, and free entry into it was prohibited.

The sea level was then 110-120 meters lower than today. So it turned out that where people walked freely, now only a scuba diver can get through. It is clear that the sea destroyed a lot of drawings. But what is left is enough to study. Here you can see 65 handprints and 177 images of animals, dating back to different periods of the ancient people visiting the cave. It is interesting that apart from bison, mountain goats and horses, there are many images of the inhabitants of the sea: seals, penguins (!), As well as birds and jellyfish.

"Lascaux - Versailles of primitive painting"


In its popularity, the Lascaux Cave in France, discovered in 1940, rivals the Altamira Cave. The age of her images is 15-18 thousand years. There are a lot of images in it, so it was called “Versailles” for a reason. It was open for visits already in 1948, but over time there were so many tourists (up to 1000 people a day!) That their breathing began to threaten the safety of rock carvings, since they produced 2500 liters fumes. Therefore, the entrance to the cave was closed with a heavy bronze door, and in 50 tourists were no longer allowed there.


Giant cave deer. Lasko cave


Bulls. Lasko cave


Lascaux cave inside


And this is also she ...

As a result, a copy of Lasko II was built next to the real cave and in 1983 it was opened to the public. The Lasko cave itself from fungi and mold is "treated" to this day.

Nio Cave "Black Room"


Niot's cave was found in the French Pyrenees of the Ariege department. Its total length is more than 14 kilometers. The rock carvings are meticulously executed in the black style that was characteristic of the Madeleine culture. It is believed that they were made from 17 to 11 thousand years ago.


Bison from the Black Room. As you can see, it has arrows or spears drawn on its side. That is, in front of us is either a hunting scene, or, again, witchcraft ...

It can only be viewed in groups of 25 people. Thus, they try to preserve its microclimate. Lighting is provided by portable lamps that are given to visitors at the entrance. Particularly interesting in this cave is the "Black Room" with charcoal drawings of bison, goats, deer and goats.

Pesch Merle Cave - "When Artists Spit ..."


It contains drawings 25 thousand years old (Gravettian culture); and drawings of the Madeleine culture. They are 16 thousand years old. Among them are handprints, images of animals, and even images of people. It was discovered in 1922 on a hillside in the commune of Cabrera, in the French Pyrenees. Its length is 1,5 km. It has seven rooms, in each of which on the walls you can see bright and very vivid images of a mammoth, spotted horses, monochromatic horses, bulls, reindeer, as well as prints of human hands and even images of people. Within a radius of 10 km from this cave, there are 10 other similar caves with Upper Paleolithic drawings, but all of them are closed to the public.

It is interesting that some of the drawings, as it turned out, were applied to the wall with the help of ... spitting with a dye composition!


Here they are - the palms from the Pesch Merle cave

Chauvet cave - "the cave of man and dog"


This cave in France was discovered in 1994. Its age is estimated at 35 thousand years. Belongs to the Aurignacian culture. In 2014 she was added to the UNESCO World Heritage List. It is larger than Lascaux and consists of a hall and gallery 800 meters long and up to 18 meters high. It contained 435 drawings of animals. Scientists estimate the age of the oldest at 36 thousand years (Aurignacian culture), but the exact dating is still controversial. In addition to the drawings, many bear bones were found in the cave. And here they found proof of the cohabitation of a man and a dog - prints of her paws and at the same time the legs of a child.


Bison from Chauvet ...

On April 25, 2015, a replica of the cave was discovered near the town of Vallon-Pont-d'Arc. It cost 55 million euros. But on the other hand, with the help of the latest technologies, specialists were able to reproduce with exceptional accuracy the original drawings of the Chauvet cave.


Horses from Chauvet. Drawings are superimposed on one another. Typical painting of the Paleolithic era

El Castillo cave - the oldest carvings on the planet


The drawings of this cave are 40 thousand years old, and the first traces of a person in this cave date back to 150 thousand years BC. Located in Spain in Cantabria. Opened in 1903.

On its walls, almost 275 m long, there are rock paintings depicting horses, bison, bison, mammoth, and other animals that surrounded the primitive artist. It is believed that some of the wall paintings were not made by Cro-Magnons, as previously thought, but by Neanderthals.

And all this is just a small part of the ancient caves with drawings. Their study made it possible to determine the features of Paleolithic art and learn a lot about the world of primitive man - the physical world around him and the spiritual world enclosed in it!

To be continued ...
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  1. Fitter65
    Fitter65 5 November 2021 05: 48
    -1
    When you read it, you can immediately see the level of culture in the West and in Russia. That's about Altamira cave
    So, in the 60-70s of the last century, it was visited by up to 1500 people a day, and then there were no fewer of them. As a result, mold started up in it, threatening to destroy valuable images, and a real war had to be waged with it.
    This is about the Lasko cave
    It was open for visits already in 1948, but over time there were so many tourists (up to 1000 people a day!) That their breathing began to threaten the safety of rock carvings, since they produced 2500 liters fumes. Therefore, the entrance to the cave was closed with a heavy bronze door, and in 50 tourists were no longer allowed there.
    And that's only in Russia Kapova cave
    Since our tourists actually dirtied the cave, it is closed for free visits.
    They just dirtied, one word Russia or any culture and respect for ancient artifacts.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 November 2021 06: 38
      +11
      The problem is not culture, the problem is something else. In the west, these objects instantly became, someone's property or interest through which they "nailed money". We, as it were, believed that the property is common, then bish is nobody's. From here and "legs grow". Itself more than once or twice caught the fans of "graffiti" on the fighters of the rivers Serga and Bardym. What I did with them I will not speak.
      An interesting fact of "vandalism" that gave the name to Peshera.
      In the Sverdlovsk Region there is the Olenyi Ruchyi National Park, where one of the key attractions is the Friendship Cave. It was discovered at the end of the nineteenth century. Included in scientific circulation in 1878 by the zemstvo doctor Baranovsky. Moreover, she received her name from the graffiti above the entrance to the "Friendship Cave 1870". It is a pity that I did not bother to photograph the entrance with the inscription in due time. Which, at the very least, is still visible today. Photos on the Internet are made so as to avoid this fact of "vandalism"!

      Yes, Vyacheslav Olegovich, thanks for the continuation!
      1. kalibr
        5 November 2021 06: 42
        +11
        Glad you liked it, Vladislav. Well, thanks for the photo. By the way, in Spain and France, for example, there are many private caves! If you want to see - pay!
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 5 November 2021 07: 54
        +11
        It is a pity that I did not bother to photograph the entrance with the inscription in due time. Which, at the very least, is still visible today.
        I want to note that it is sometimes very difficult to photograph rock carvings. I tried unsuccessfully to do this with a bas-relief of the goddess Hathor (the ancient Egyptian analogue of the Mistress of the Copper Mountain) in Timna (Israel). The eye sees, the lens does not take. request
        Vlad hi
      3. hohol95
        hohol95 5 November 2021 10: 44
        +8
        "Kisa and Osya were here ..."
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 November 2021 14: 35
          +4
          Good day for an honest company!
          Unlike modern "Keys, Axis and Vasya", the ancient Mumba-big-leg had to knock out graffiti with a flint chisel, and banging on it with another cobblestone. Then fill the hole with ocher or even the blood of a sacrificial deer. The latter had yet to be caught. And from we will surround a bow with stone arrows, a spear and an ax with a similar device, or even worse a gnarled club! So, only a lucky earner who had free time for creativity multiplied by desire could show talent !!!
          By the way, if you believe a number of scientists, primitive people had matriarchy. So for painting, at least a "cave artist" had to have an agreeable wife !!!
          Well, somewhere like that!
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 5 November 2021 14: 46
            +2
            But couldn't women paint in their free from household chores?
            Or are all drawings 100% male?
            1. Liam
              Liam 5 November 2021 14: 53
              +1
              Of course they could ... and even most likely it was in most cases, but cave maskilism is indestructible in 2021)
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 November 2021 15: 33
                +2
                Quote: Liam
                Of course they could ... and even most likely it was in most cases, but cave maskilism is indestructible in 2021)

                In the ability to freeze stupidity you will not take!
                1. Liam
                  Liam 5 November 2021 16: 03
                  0
                  Do not be offended so ... it is better to read some books on the topic. Then you will probably write less multi-bukffenny nonsense, although I'm not sure about the latter)
                2. Catfish
                  Catfish 5 November 2021 16: 10
                  +5

                  In the ability to freeze stupidity you will not take!

                  Well, what can you do ... request

              2. hohol95
                hohol95 5 November 2021 17: 45
                +1
                Perhaps you meant Muscularism?
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 November 2021 18: 37
                  +2
                  Quote: hohol95
                  Perhaps you meant Muscularism?

                  Dear Alexey - these are not my words, Liama.
                  To be honest, I am personally not interested in the gender approach. The question is, why were the images drawn?
                  For beauty and subtle spiritual organization? In conditions far from ideal, when for every piece of "daily bread" we had to compete with the wild. Even in fertile places (where Leam lives) you can get a piece of meat, or maybe you yourself will be someone's prey. So, given the costs of such "art", it had a sacred meaning for a primitive man. What exactly, we can only guess.
                  Whether it was a ritual after a successful hunt, or a ritual in front of her, ordering a wife to her husband for breakfast, or so the process of being a priest took place ... we do not know.
                  Squinting at men (hunters) I am right a priori that hunting is mainly the lot of men. Women were mainly engaged in gathering, in connection with which they had other interests. Everything is nothing more and nothing less. Let us recall the culture of Tripoli, where matriarchy may have been developed. Figures of the mother goddess, the leitmotif of this symbol is among the first nomands, and among the hunters it is rather an exception. Female dualism is the subject of more developed and culturally advanced peoples. Which, in addition to survival, are already betting on development, reproduction.
                  Well, somewhere like that.
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 5 November 2021 18: 57
                    +2
                    Reading in a distant childhood books about North American Indians or primitive people, I came across the fact that the text described the cutting of the mascara of killed animals by women and children! Men only carved out tongues and the most tender pieces of meat!
                    The rest - skinning, cutting off the leftover meat, fat, and harvesting the required bone - remained with the women and children!
                    And the cutting of a whale by a northern tribe generally required the presence of all members of the settlement or tribe!
                    Likewise, drawings - a family is a small tribe. And everyone could draw together!
                    Some held torches or bowls with burning fat, others drew "places of eternal hunting" or "paradise for souls" of the killed animals so that the luck of the hunters does not dwindle!
                    In the work "Wolfhound", the protagonist pronounces ritual words so that the soul of the horse killed by him returns to the world in the form of a newborn foal!
                    Perhaps the ancient hunters, through drawings, ritual dances, wished not only good luck in hunting, but also the revival of the souls of killed animals in newborn babies of probable prey ...
                    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                      Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 November 2021 20: 08
                      0
                      Everything can be!
                      Only the family as an independent institution appears late enough. In the first place in primitive society was the clan. So the participation of the entire genus or its greater part in the creations of antiquity is unambiguous. Members of the forum even suggested the possibility of artel copying of such totems.
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 5 November 2021 20: 20
                        +1
                        For the genus to live in a cave, it must be quite large!
                      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                        Kote Pan Kokhanka 6 November 2021 06: 42
                        +1
                        Quote: hohol95
                        For the genus to live in a cave, it must be quite large!

                        According to archaeologists, the size of the clan (tribe) ranged from 25 to 100 people. Also, most of them believe that they did not live in the caves. These are places of temporary hunting grounds, worshiping spirits and storage rooms. Such a personal Tartare, fridge and bungalows. It's too difficult to heat them. Places of karst sinkholes (medial coolers) turned out to be inhabited.
                        In a previous article by Vyacheslav I was on this issue (a real practitioner archaeologist was dragging my teeth in). Read his comments - you won't regret it!
                        Regards, Vlad!
                  2. Saxahorse
                    Saxahorse 5 November 2021 20: 30
                    +2
                    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                    For beauty and subtle spiritual organization? In conditions far from ideal, when for every piece of "daily bread" we had to compete with the wild.

                    By the way, a controversial point. Hunting is not the most expensive field of activity. Filled up one cow, for a week the whole tribe eats it. Basically two or three working hours a week, buzz!

                    The shift to farming has dramatically increased the labor costs of keeping the pants down at the waist. But grain, unlike meat, can be stored for months or even years.
            2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 November 2021 15: 29
              +4
              Quote: hohol95
              But couldn't women paint in their free from household chores?
              Or are all drawings 100% male?

              Yes, there were women in those days, but women! And he will stop the galloping horse, and send him to the cauldron. And he will enter the burning cave in order to drag the metacarpal man out of it. And if it is necessary to draw a bull on the wall, he can break the skull of the husband with a frying pan (considering it is more primitive than a frying pan) - a flat stone in the hearth. laughing
              No kidding now. Why not. Although Andrei you forget the most important thing in rock (cave) painting is the ritual ritual character. I think they drew with high quality to fulfill the spirit or call for good luck, or to carry out enlightenment. Perhaps even an artel approach to such a process. Since in the depths of the cave light is needed, at least a ladder, quite labor-intensive work. Sometimes unbearable for one person a priori.
              So anything can be. But ritual drawings for hunting with elements of damage from primitive hunting tools are more likely to be male work. The rest is debatable and, alas, we do not know the truth.
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 5 November 2021 18: 13
                +3
                There are women in Russian villages - they are affectionately called "women" - they will stop an elephant on the run AND WANT HIM TO BE REMOVED !!!
                Who "pulled out" the rear during the Great Patriotic War ...?
                Your Alexey!
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 November 2021 18: 39
                  +1
                  Quote: hohol95
                  Your Alexey!


                  Damn I repent for the third time on the same rake! recourse
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 5 November 2021 19: 02
                    +2
                    It happens. As my DAD used to say - even call it a pot - just don't put it in the oven!
                    With our "hohlyatskoy" surname, they called him "Tatar" in MPM-1!
                    Probably for the eternal dark complexion ...
                    And my last name is "khokhlom"!
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 5 November 2021 19: 11
                      +1
                      "I am a Tatar in person,
                      But with the surname Khokhlyatskaya,
                      How am I kabatskoy melancholy,
                      Did you fit under the wheel? "(C)
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 5 November 2021 19: 21
                        +1
                        Not canal ... Slavic faces !!!
                        Only hair color - dark-haired!
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 5 November 2021 19: 33
                        +4
                        Did you know many Tatars, including Kirghiz, muzzles, mostly Middle Vyatka, "here the chud has pissed off and was intent on"?
                        My inescapable conviction: Russian is not a nationality, it is a state of mind.
                      3. hohol95
                        hohol95 5 November 2021 19: 43
                        +1
                        Nobody called me a Tatar or a chud!
                        If you have an OK account, go to the page - A. V. Parkhomenko.
                        And my parents were born in the Azerbaijan SSR !!!
                      4. hohol95
                        hohol95 5 November 2021 19: 30
                        +3
                        The welders and carvers have "eternal swarthiness" due to the peculiarities of their work.
                        And some have a hereditary ability not to sunburn and be "bronze" all year round.
                      5. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 5 November 2021 19: 37
                        +2
                        A person's profession is not reflected in the genome
                      6. hohol95
                        hohol95 5 November 2021 19: 40
                        +2
                        But the skin can "acquire" professional characteristics!
    2. Nyrobsky
      Nyrobsky 5 November 2021 07: 21
      +4
      Quote: Fitter65
      When you read it, you can immediately see what is the level of culture in the West and in Russia. They just dirtied, one word Russia or any culture and respect for ancient artifacts.
      Come on. Russia to the "enlightened" Europe and America in the cultural sense is still degrading and degrading. This praised West has destroyed dozens of peoples and more than one civilization with their culture. Some Incas and Aztecs are worth something, whose gold and silver artifacts were stupidly melted down into ingots and exported to Europe. Destroyed and looted museums in Iraq and Syria, including Palmyra, most of whose exhibits were taken out and settled in private collections, are also on the conscience of the West. I believe that the Scythian gold of the Crimea was also "ordered" by interested persons from the United States and Europe, and therefore, if it is transferred to Ukraine, it will most likely be stolen from private traders and will eventually be lost for posterity.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 5 November 2021 08: 31
        +10
        was taken out and settled in private collections,
        The basis of the exposition of the same Metropolitan Museum is made up of donations from private collections. In our case, most of what falls into the hands of the museum bureaucracy disappears forever in the storerooms.
        1. Nyrobsky
          Nyrobsky 5 November 2021 08: 49
          +2
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          The basis of the exposition of the same Metropolitan Museum is made up of donations from private collections.

          Well, in Russia there were both donors and patrons of art - Tretyakov, Morozov, Mamontov, Bakhrushin, etc.
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          In our case, most of what falls into the hands of the museum bureaucracy disappears forever in the storerooms.

          What is this statement based on? On the fact that there are stores? So they are in any museum of any country, due to the fact that the available space does not allow exhibiting the entire exposition at once. Another thing is how the accounting and control over the safety of exhibits in these storerooms is arranged, so that they do not migrate to private collections and are not replaced by copies.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 5 November 2021 09: 07
            +7
            This statement is based on the experience of communication with museum bureaucrats, mine, Shpakovsky, N. Mikhailov.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 5 November 2021 14: 01
              +2
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              This statement is based on the experience of communication with museum bureaucrats, mine, Shpakovsky, N. Mikhailov.

              Greetings Anton! hi Vekselberg Faberge bought up all over the world what he could, returned to St. Petersburg. There are more examples. It's just that now the period of "primary accumulation of capital" is still going on, so everything that the hand can reach is hated
          2. Fat
            Fat 5 November 2021 09: 19
            +6
            Quote: Nyrobsky
            What is this statement based on? On the fact that there are stores? So they are in any museum of any country, due to the fact that the available space does not allow exhibiting the entire exposition at once. Another thing is how the accounting and control over the safety of exhibits in these storerooms is arranged, so that they do not migrate to private collections and are not replaced by copies.

            hi Dmitriy. The collection of Fyodor Plyushkin, which he collected for about 40 years, was bought by the state from his descendants under Nicholas II. Currently, it has been possible to trace about one tenth of it ...
            In general, only the collector himself can determine the value of a collectible exhibit, and museum professionals are a completely different approach ...
            1. Nyrobsky
              Nyrobsky 5 November 2021 10: 26
              +3
              Quote: Thick
              The collection of Fyodor Plyushkin, which he collected for about 40 years, was bought by the state from his descendants under Nicholas II. Currently, it has been possible to trace about one tenth of it ...
              This is not surprising, since during the collapse of the Russian Empire and the ensuing revolution, a great many priceless exhibits moved to the West along with immigrants, including the same museum curators. One of the rhytons in the shape of a bull's head exhibited in the Louvre was taken out in 1919 from the museum in Cherdyn during the retreat of Kolchak.
              Quote: Thick
              In general, the value of a collectible item can only be determined by the collector himself, and museum professionals are a completely different approach.

              Partly agree. hi
              1. Fat
                Fat 5 November 2021 12: 08
                +7
                However, it also happens that lovingly collected objects are defined by experts as ordinary household rubbish, and the fact that in a couple of decades the rubbish will become a valuable rarity is not important. yes
              2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 November 2021 14: 54
                +4
                Quote: Nyrobsky
                This is not surprising, since during the collapse of the Russian Empire and the ensuing revolution, a great many priceless exhibits moved to the West along with immigrants, including the same museum curators.


                A significant proportion of the exported museum exhibits left without the participation of even immigrants. So the Czechoslovak corps, purposefully robbed, everything and everyone on the way to the east. They did not even disdain church utensils.
        2. BAI
          BAI 5 November 2021 11: 54
          +6
          The basis of the exposition of the same Metropolitan Museum is made up of donations from private collections.

          Especially the Egyptian hall, the exhibits of which were impudently taken out of Egypt.
          1. kalibr
            5 November 2021 21: 44
            +2
            Quote: BAI
            Especially the Egyptian hall, the exhibits of which were impudently taken out of Egypt.

            Your lot is the burden of the whites ...
    3. Hantengri
      Hantengri 5 November 2021 10: 54
      +8
      Quote: Fitter65
      They just dirtied, one word Russia or any culture and respect for ancient artifacts.

      And what name can this one have?
      These are petroglyphs near the Chet Kumbel pass Tashkent region Bastanlyk district. Neolithic, presumably 10th - 6th centuries BC

      And this is under them signed by some modern Pithecanthropus:

      Some Yura decided this, seeing the images of a goat, apparently, he recognized himself in it and decided to leave an autograph. Below, some female baboon, inspired by the work of the ancients, drew a heart:

  2. riwas
    riwas 5 November 2021 06: 56
    +4
    that they not only and not so much lived

    Life in the caves of humans and animals at a certain period was a forced measure, and then became a habit.
    The fact is that about 42 thousand years ago, the planet's magnetic poles changed places. This process was not instantaneous and people and animals had to hide in caves during the day, since the Earth was deprived of its magnetic protection.
    In the article, the authors speculate that the Adams event could explain many other evolutionary mysteries, such as the extinction of the Neanderthals and the sudden widespread emergence of figurative painting in caves по всему миру

    https://www.popmech.ru/science/674483-42-000-let-nazad-magnitnye-polyusa-zemli-perevernulis-uchenye-pokazali-kakie-kataklizmy-eto-vyzvalo/
  3. Alex 1970
    Alex 1970 5 November 2021 08: 08
    +5
    Thank you for the article. As always, it is interesting to read. I didn't know there were so many caves with drawings. I thought it was a very rare occurrence.
  4. Olgovich
    Olgovich 5 November 2021 08: 09
    +1
    Some are even painted upside down

    this is how to look. recourse

    Horses from Chauvet. Drawings are superimposed on one another

    direct impressionism.

    Here they are - the palms from the Pesch Merle cave

    Look: 25 thousand years have passed, but people's habits are still the same ...
    1. napalm
      napalm 5 November 2021 14: 44
      +1
      Vasya was here. If I were the French, I would have thought.
  5. dzvero
    dzvero 5 November 2021 09: 18
    +6
    Thanks for the article!
    To me, the figure of a bear and drawings of animals with spears / arrows evoke associations with a "simulator" for hunters and posters "where to beat the beast". Type
    1. Saxahorse
      Saxahorse 5 November 2021 20: 35
      +2
      Quote: dzvero
      evoke associations with a "simulator" for hunters and posters "where to beat the beast"

      By the way, yes! It is quite possible that this is not mysticism, and not dancing with songs, but quite practical educational posters and manuals of the "young hunter". good
  6. Chifka
    Chifka 5 November 2021 09: 20
    +5
    People are still engaged in rock "painting" to this day. "Vasya was here", "Greetings from Krivopupkin", etc. It feels like people had a more developed culture several tens of thousands of years ago (in all senses) than some now. Maybe it's the influence of aliens after all? winked
  7. Konnick
    Konnick 5 November 2021 09: 29
    +5
    At a time when modern cave art flourished ... Mammoth hunters, in the South Ural steppes, tried to tame horses and created the basis of all Indo-European languages ​​... and these ocher admired ... silently swallowing saliva and looking at their paintings with an empty stomach ... hi
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 November 2021 09: 47
      +10
      Hunters for mammoths, in the South Ural steppes, tried to tame horses and created the basis of all Indo-European languages ​​...
      These are the cunning Bashkirs! laughing
      1. Konnick
        Konnick 5 November 2021 10: 13
        +7
        After all, the cunning Bashkirs

        Only the Bashkirs, in translation from the Turkic languages, in translation, black-headed, were not there. Now they live there, and smart natives have left for more comfortable places to rest from work. They were fair-haired and light-eyed, missionaries, hee-hee, on their horses, or rather on chariots, they went ... some to Europe, some to Asia, and some to India, to spread the Indo-European language and educate the local Banderlog, speaking - by deed it is necessary to study, and not draw tricks and turn them into slavery lol
        But seriously, read about the kurgan theory, about the Yamnaya culture, watch the documentary "Equus: The Story of a Horse" directed by anthropologist Niobi Thompson and Kazakh producer and researcher Nurbol Baymukhan. True, the state media of Kazakhstan called the Kazakhs the first people with horses, but do not pay attention, in those days there was no Kazakh smell there bully
  8. Korsar4
    Korsar4 5 November 2021 09: 49
    +8
    But the fact that some of the drawings are depicted upside down, could be an image that the bison was killed. At least I have heard this version about belugas depicted on petroglyphs in Karelia.

    And one more thing: every child, probably, put his palms to the glass, who was traveling in an electric train with a frozen window.

    I talked a little with schoolchildren from Yakutia at one event. They also depicted drawings in the form of their palms.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 November 2021 10: 31
      +5
      And one more thing: every child, probably, put his palms to the glass, who was traveling in an electric train with a frozen window.
      The main thing is not to tongue to iron in the cold.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 5 November 2021 10: 57
        +3
        A sense of self-preservation still usually trumps the urge to experiment.
      2. depressant
        depressant 5 November 2021 10: 58
        +7
        She put her tongue against the metal door handle in Chukotka, the memory is so vivid as if she did it right now. And I still can't understand why I did it. The instinct of knowledge - food or where? This is when a person was not yet some disgusting marine animal that had not yet crawled out onto land, which consisted entirely of the digestive organs, and specifically - the former then intestine with a mouth opening wassat )))
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 5 November 2021 11: 18
          +7
          Sometimes I say that we are all descendants of the winners. Those who ate, for example, did not leave any heirs to poisonous plants.
          1. depressant
            depressant 5 November 2021 11: 48
            +6
            And there is such a theory.
            We are the descendants of the cautious survivors. Those who looked at everything with apprehension and waited for some passionary "hook" not to grab an unknown plant and eat it. Survived? Perfectly! So you can eat it. Therefore, there are few passionaries, they are the descendants of those who did not survive who managed to leave offspring and only in the presence of offspring tasted everything. And the bulk of the current population are the descendants of those who stood watching: will they survive or not survive? wassat )))
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 5 November 2021 12: 24
              +4
              “And nearby cases fly like bullets,
              Crazy, belated, blind, exhausted.
              Some took the risk of substituting themselves for them,
              And immediately, who is in the grave, who is held in high esteem ”(c).
              1. depressant
                depressant 5 November 2021 13: 16
                +5
                "And soberly, not rashly
                We cut the past from the shoulder
                But we hit with a relaxed hand
                Cold, flabby - no. It's nice to throw a mountain off your shoulders,
                And extract everything for God's judgment,
                And shake my hand out,
                And show: there is no knife in it,
                Without fear that buckshot
                And the unarmed will be flogged.
                But we, the iron ones, are whetted by rust
                And the psychology of the snake. "(C)
  9. Undecim
    Undecim 5 November 2021 09: 50
    +10
    It was proved that the earliest images belong to the Upper Paleolithic, that is, they are at least 40-20 thousand years old.

    The "contenders" for the title of "the most ancient human drawing" are constantly changing. To date, the oldest known to science drawings made by a human hand is a fragment of a geometric pattern on a piece of quartzite, found in Blombos Cave in South Africa. After seven years of research, its age is determined to be 73 years.
  10. depressant
    depressant 5 November 2021 10: 11
    +7
    More precisely, the Altamira cave is located 2 kilometers southwest of the town of Santillana del Mar (this is northern Spain), and the nearest large cities near it are Torrelavega (7 km) and Santander (28 km).
    Even geographic coordinates are given, namely: 43.377499, -4.122480. Well, really, but how else to indicate the position of the place on the mountain?
    What is especially striking in the cave is its "vestibule" - 100 square meters of ceiling, covered with continuous paintings of the highest artistic level. And if you think that these are some small drawings, then you are mistaken! The size of animal images is from 1,8 meters to 2 meters. This is a monumental painting! )))
    Reading about the caves, I remembered how I once painted the wall in the lobby of my own house, and then the wall in one of the rooms. It was...
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 November 2021 10: 19
      +9
      This is a monumental painting! )))
      "Don't write on the walls !!!" (Siqueiros)
      1. depressant
        depressant 5 November 2021 10: 52
        +8
        Good morning Anton! love )))
        Good morning and day to all interlocutors! )))
        True, the morning was not entirely good for me. At 12 at night, a neighbor downstairs etched me with a particularly smelling air freshener, I had to arrange an hour airing. At half past one in the night, a neighbor from above came home, began to drop heavy objects on the floor and beat the Alabai puppy. In general, I fell asleep at 4, woke up at eight - a fun life in Khrushchev! )))
        And as for Siqueiros, a master of monumental wall painting, did he just say so? Apparently, he tried to somehow get rid of competitors.
        Like, don't go, kids, go for a walk to Africa, if you're not a PMC wassat )))
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 5 November 2021 10: 57
          +7
          Good morning, Lyudmila Yakovlevna!
          This is a phrase from my quotation book, its origin has been forgotten over the years.
          beat the puppy alabai.
          What rubbish !!!
          1. depressant
            depressant 5 November 2021 11: 17
            +6
            Just imagine, Anton!
            A hysterical woman, a household boor who has occupied an apartment instead of the old people who have died. Apparently, she is afraid of claims from other relatives and, in order to somehow protect herself, and there the relatives are pugnacious, she took a hefty dog ​​for raising a puppy. In general, the fight for the inheritance. We lock the puppy regularly alone, howls, barks, turning the life of neighbors into hell. I was poking at her with a list of laws and was sent far and for a long time. Once I successfully chased the boorish neighbors, and they were afraid because they had something to grab onto - entrepreneurs! There is nothing for the poor to grab, the poor will grab you and whack you with his chain, which he will willingly lose by beating you with it. wassat )))
            And somehow suddenly a lot of huge dogs appeared in the neighborhood, they are being walked under my western window. So it was during the 2008 crisis, and then the dogs disappeared somewhere. And so, again. The treatment of dogs is cruel. It is only on the video that the dogs are rescued, caressed, and allowed to lick their faces. In our poor life, everything is not so, unfortunately.
            For example, I dream of having a cat, but I never will. The cat needs to be fed well, vaccinations, scratching posts, toys, etc. Realizing that I will not pull, I do not want to become the source of a dysfunctional life of a cute little animal.
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 5 November 2021 11: 42
              +8
              The poor have nothing to grab
              Get a solar session. Birds of 30 centimeters and weighing 100 grams give 120 decibels to the mountain! It's louder than a chainsaw !. Neighbors will run away regardless of their finances yes .
            2. kalibr
              5 November 2021 13: 41
              +7
              Quote: depressant
              making your neighbors' lives hell.

              Then buy two cheap microwave ovens, find an electrician to remount them a little so that they work with the door open and ... put them under the very ceiling of your neighbor's apartment, especially where her bed is. Then turn it on and ... go for a walk to hell. Do it a few times - it will calm down for good. And - most importantly, no traces!
              1. depressant
                depressant 5 November 2021 13: 51
                +3
                Then buy two cheap microwaves ....

                Vyacheslav Olegovich, darling, and you too!
                Do you know what I hear in all the numerous pieces of advice given to me? "Buy ... buy ... buy ..."
                Don't make me think about my material possibilities. But I suppose your advice is not just for me, is it? Give it credit, microwaves are powerful good drinks wassat )))
                But will a person understand?
                1. kalibr
                  5 November 2021 15: 47
                  +2
                  Quote: depressant
                  But will a person understand?

                  Who are you talking about? About the top ones? The one or the one who hits the dog, especially the puppy, is no longer people.
                  1. depressant
                    depressant 5 November 2021 16: 33
                    +2
                    the one who beats the dog, especially the puppy, are no longer people.

                    I totally agree. But I would not become like in any case. There are laws. True, in order to apply them in our covid time, and even taking into account my frail health, a special explosion of anger is required, which I no longer have. Used up! crying
                2. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 5 November 2021 17: 50
                  +2
                  I offer the least expensive option: a tin bowl and a hammer.
              2. bk0010
                bk0010 5 November 2021 17: 39
                +4
                Quote: kalibr
                Then turn it on and ... go for a walk to hell
                Once a signal came to the Durka that one man was crazy. The orderlies seized the cops, arrived at the address, they were admitted by a man wrapped in foil. When asked why he says that the neighbor from above is irradiating him. Well, everything is clear, you can take away. But they took a young employee from the cops. He demanded to check the patient's words. We went upstairs, and there, on the floor, with the doors down, there are microwave ovens turned on. The upstairs neighbor said that the downstairs neighbor had irradiated him with zombie rays, and he was only striking back. Both were taken away.
        2. Undecim
          Undecim 5 November 2021 11: 05
          +10
          In general, I fell asleep at 4, woke up at eight - a fun life in Khrushchev! )))

          Buy a good music center with powerful acoustics and, in response to the malicious intrigues of your neighbors, turn them on at three o'clock in the morning fugue in D minor, preferably in the drum of the Duomo Cathedral organ.
          Or start learning to play guitar at night.
          1. depressant
            depressant 5 November 2021 11: 35
            +7
            Buy a good music center with powerful acoustics and in response to the malicious intrigues of neighbors ...

            Are you serious? )))
            There is a music center, it has been preserved from the past better times, it has not included for 10 years ... There is also a wonderful acoustic guitar from the St. Petersburg factory - I have never heard a more beautiful sound! I haven't played for a long time.
            So, the tools for a retaliatory strike are available. But, firstly, to become on the level of everyday boors is contrary to my nature. Secondly, there are also other neighbors who are not to blame in front of me. Thirdly. You cannot imagine the gigantic ability of everyday boors to take revenge with terrible revenge for the infringement of their rights, the presence of which they easily exclude from other people.
            And so I think, is it not for this reason that humanity, wiser and refined by feelings, got out of the caves and settled in families in separate dwellings, when common dances with songs around the fire are only on schedule, at a strictly allotted time? wassat )))
            1. BAI
              BAI 5 November 2021 12: 01
              +3
              There is a music center, it has been preserved from the past better times, it has not included for 10 years ... There is also a wonderful acoustic guitar from the St. Petersburg factory - I have never heard a more beautiful sound! I haven't played for a long time.

              Buy a drum, and it will be like A. Sviridova's:

              I get up like the sun early
              And I'm not sad not a bit
              Knock on the drum
              So that the path is more fun

              I constantly meet obstacles on the way
              But I don't give a damn about all the troubles
              On a drum bam on a drum boom
              On a drum, on a drum

              And everything goes according to plan when I'm like thunder
              I knock on the drum and I don't care
              I will not lose heart and I will go again
              After all, I don't give a damn about all the troubles
              1. depressant
                depressant 5 November 2021 12: 45
                +5
                Here ... wassat )))
                I’m here, you know, with all the sincerity that I am capable of, in anger and sadness, with a twisted pale face, I pushed speeches filled with righteous morality, and the jokers answered me with a musical center, an electric guitar, or even an African there they advise. As for the drum ... The use as a symbol of indifference is, of course, acceptable. But won't it turn out that when you need to show indifference, the protective shell will not crack? The sound of a drum, you know, has the highest cementing properties.
                1. BAI
                  BAI 5 November 2021 19: 23
                  +1
                  Dont be upset. Consulting a lawyer is not expensive, but he really will give serious, competent recommendations. For any tram boor, you can find a council in the current legal framework. Checked. It takes a little persistence: who will win.
                  1. depressant
                    depressant 5 November 2021 20: 39
                    +1
                    Let's leave this topic, I'll deal with the neighbors)))
                    Hunt to talk about the Paleolithians. If tomorrow anyone has an interest in the topic, I will lay out some thoughts about social markers. And today there is no more strength left - the magnetic storm pressed down.
                    Well, laugh, laugh at me, but I'm addicted wassat )))
              2. Phil77
                Phil77 5 November 2021 12: 51
                +5
                The instrument's drum is serious and loud, but the drum kit will definitely be cooler! laughing
                1. depressant
                  depressant 5 November 2021 13: 21
                  +4
                  Seryozha, I respect rockers, but only in a room adapted for this)))
                  But for me the best rocker is the one for whom a simple acoustic guitar is enough.
                  It seems that people climbed out of the caves when, in addition to pictorial talents, they actively began to manifest musical talents. There were no walls in the cave to knock, expressing an active protest wassat )))
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 5 November 2021 13: 48
                    +3
                    Oh, rockers, rockers. 1994, "Yura! Let's go have a drink!" belay
                    1. depressant
                      depressant 5 November 2021 14: 03
                      +2
                      Oh, you! ...
                      The rocker's hopes are nourished
                      He leans against a rock
                      Whose red moss is unfading:
                      There is fame, give me money.
            2. Phil77
              Phil77 5 November 2021 12: 46
              +8
              Good morning!
              Yes, my friend, ek you managed ... with neighbors. According to the description, literally 101 kilometers turns out, where in times not so distant the antisocial element was evicted. laughing Horror. Well, with regards to the concept of up and down, then, if you please! wink
              1. depressant
                depressant 5 November 2021 13: 03
                +3
                Seryozha, dear, this is not the 101st kilometer. These are just people who by the 90s turned out to be of varying degrees of youth and shabby, but survived. And survival was their only achievement. Because there were no conditions to achieve something different according to their abilities. And now they are fighting for the small inheritance that they inherited from the Union - these pitiful apartments, these caves. And nothing else will shine for them, except for the struggle with each other for miserable square meters - not for them and not for their children.
                And I am one of these people wassat )))
                I differ from them only in that I did not fall into credit slavery - they all go under credit!
                I think this kind of slavery was still in the Paleolithic)))
                As for Malevich's painting ... I read a lot in the 10s that the storerooms of both the Hermitage and the Tretyakov Gallery were robbed by replacing the originals with copies. But these matters were somehow quickly hesitated. Apparently, the originals fell into the right hands.
                The good thing about the caves is that the drawing is impossible to bear.
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 5 November 2021 13: 16
                  +4
                  Well, my house is far from "elite", but the neighbors are quite sane people. When they moved / 1972 / the contingent was certainly more abrupt, in a good way, after all, people were resettled from the center of Moscow. Although this is also not an indicator, but You can imagine the level of upbringing and habits of the then neighbors. Now, of course, a lot has changed and I don't even know the current ones by their names, but ... it's a sin to complain.
                  1. depressant
                    depressant 5 November 2021 13: 44
                    +2
                    In general, my comment did not go through.
                    I’ll say briefly, you’re lucky, I’m not)))
                    1. Phil77
                      Phil77 5 November 2021 13: 53
                      +3
                      Probably yes. Although the line is getting thinner and thinner. But how sometimes it is nice to meet a few "old" tenants at the entrance! And just chat. On the other hand, who prevents you from meeting more often? Probably the pace of life? Although this is very conditional.
                      1. depressant
                        depressant 5 November 2021 15: 05
                        +3
                        No, we just don't need each other, this is a separate conversation. But today I would like to focus on caves)))
                      2. kalibr
                        5 November 2021 16: 01
                        +4
                        But seriously, no microwaves, FIND VOLUNTEERS who protect animals from abuse. And it is there! Let them, and not you, spoil her life, come with the police and confiscate the dog.
            3. The comment was deleted.
  11. Ural resident
    Ural resident 5 November 2021 11: 24
    +6
    Always wondering what kind of lighting did the ancient people use for drawing? To paint a color image with shadows in a flickering light ... is a great art.
    1. Konnick
      Konnick 5 November 2021 11: 47
      +3
      Always wondering what kind of lighting did the ancient people use for drawing? To paint a color image with shadows in a flickering light ... is a great art.

      The question is certainly interesting, but I have little faith in the existence of such pictures in the Paleolithic, later much less believable art appeared and the first, at least preserved, are the figures of women of a certain sexual orientation. Once I visited the Historical Museum at an exhibition of art from the Copper Age or Early Bronze Age, it was a long time ago, back in the last century. Those figures of women and men could be admired by a porn director inspired by the achievements of modern plastic surgeons.
    2. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 6 November 2021 16: 06
      +1
      Judging by the soot - and it was preserved there in some places - bowls of fat.
      The paints, by the way, are also fat-based, there is mainly a mixture of fat and ocher.
  12. BAI
    BAI 5 November 2021 11: 50
    +4
    "Palms" from Gargas Cave. What could that mean?

    And the fact that in those days there were people with 4 fingers and a characteristic structure of the palms.
    1. Nyrobsky
      Nyrobsky 5 November 2021 19: 48
      0
      Quote: BAI
      "Palms" from Gargas Cave. What could that mean?

      And the fact that in those days there were people with 4 fingers and a characteristic structure of the palms.

      And also the fact that 4 people took part in the creation of this "composition", of whom only one had a healthy hand, and the rest, in the course of the struggle for a place in the sun, were injured and lost part of the phalanges on the hands.
      The second "painter", who had lost part of the little finger and ring finger, was the quickest among them and had his hand sealed three times.
      The third had one full finger (thumb) and one phalanx on the other fingers of the hand,
      The fourth, judging by the four-fingered print, got the most "nuts" in life and probably he was the most authoritative old-timer in this company of ancient wall graffiti writers.
  13. Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 5 November 2021 11: 56
    +9
    Living in a cave is also a pleasure. Coldly. It is damp. A fire can be made only if the cave is through, that is, there is ventilation, such that it carries away the smoke and provides an influx of fresh air with oxygen for combustion and breathing. Again, firewood ... And it's always dark in the cave, and as much as possible.
    It seems to me that living in such conditions is very uncomfortable and troublesome, especially in winter, when it is cold.
    And the drawings ...
    I am weak in anthropology, but I understand something in forensic science. In order to create such drawings, firstly, proper lighting is required, sufficiently bright, for a sufficiently long time, and secondly, the forests that the author would climb to in order to apply the drawing on the walls and ceilings. All this preparation takes time and a lot. Conclusion: the author is either a professional who makes his living with drawings (that is, the tribe feeds him), or the work was carried out by a "group of persons by prior agreement."
    In this case, it turns out that at some point an organized group, having prepared everything necessary (tools, paints, light sources, building materials for scaffolding), bursts into the room and draws a horse or a cow on the wall or ceiling, after which all members of this group return to their business as usual.
    Question: what for do they do it?
    The answer suggests itself: a joyful event is celebrated - a successful hunt. And they draw the one who was killed. This hypothesis explains the layering of drawings well - there is a lot of loot, and there is little space on the ceiling.
    And now a very definite picture is being drawn in front of my eyes. They killed the bull, fried it and ate it. Then the well-fed and satisfied went to the nearest cave, painted it, they say, sleep well, dear comrade, you are now always with us, the memory of you will live for centuries.
    Well, the images of people ... Apparently, anything happened. People - the same meat and philanthropy were not alien to our ancestors. smile
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 5 November 2021 12: 33
      +7
      Here's how to determine: was the drawing made before the hunt - in anticipation and visualization, or after - from a well-fed triumph? Really on the fatness of the image?
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 5 November 2021 14: 27
        +7
        A hungry and angry person is unlikely to go to paint.
        I imagine him gloomily and intently screwing a stone tip to a stick. And then a friend comes up to him and says:
        - Cho something to eat hunting. Shall we go, shall we draw a horse?
        - Spear tochi, nag. Go hunting tomorrow. Here we will eat someone, then we will draw. At least a rhino.
        smile
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 5 November 2021 14: 34
          +3
          But what about: a well-fed belly is deaf to learning?
          Before starting the icon, the icon painters fasted.

          Another question is that the degree of hunger is different.
        2. bk0010
          bk0010 5 November 2021 17: 45
          +2
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          A hungry and angry person is unlikely to go to paint.
          It will do if it's part of a magical ritual. And he will draw very carefully, since he believes that his well-being and life depends on it. In addition, there was a problem with paints then: everyone definitely had only coal, but the same cinnabar most likely had to be exchanged for something useful. So the drawings were not trivial.
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 5 November 2021 18: 22
            0
            Quote: bk0010
            the drawings were not frivolous.

            Undoubtedly. Although I think, after all, on a full stomach it was better to draw. smile
        3. kalibr
          5 November 2021 18: 00
          +1
          Found a burial of a man of the Stone Age, and in it 10000 beads drilled from the bone of a mammoth. You can't grind so many beads from a hungry belly and you won't drill!
          1. AllBiBek
            AllBiBek 6 November 2021 16: 13
            +1
            Well, in Sungiri there are still fewer of them, but according to the same Sungiri it is clear that children were actively exploited for such cases, there the youngest boy has arthritis of his right hand at the age of five, and wear and tear just says that the tusks are on the beads cut with plates.
      2. AllBiBek
        AllBiBek 6 November 2021 16: 10
        0
        In the Paleolithic, the main genre - realism, abstraction and symbolism - is already a sign of the Mesolithic. And everything is very vividly depicted there, the detail is shocking.
        They have also worked out bone figurines in the same genre.
        The only abstract is paleoveners, but everything is complicated with them.
        1. kalibr
          6 November 2021 16: 53
          0
          Quote: AllBiBek
          The only abstract is paleoveners, but everything is complicated with them.

          I had an article here about paoevener. You can type in a search engine and see
          1. AllBiBek
            AllBiBek 6 November 2021 17: 01
            0
            Yes I remember.
            The main thing is not revealed at all: how and in the environment of what they are raised ready-made (blanks are a separate topic).
            Meanwhile, they lie at the bottom of specially dug pits, often in a separate groove. Naturally, in ocher. Often around there is a composition of large plates, and unused ones.
            Above, this is all covered with a lid made of a shoulder blade of a large animal, a round hole with a palm size is cut in the center of the lid, the hole is plugged with a large pear-shaped stone.
            These are the main options for burial, there are several traditions, the Maltese Venus is not so, and they themselves are of a different form, but in general, this is not some kind of cult of women, as feminists like to argue, there is rather a cross between sacrifice and magic ritual.
            1. kalibr
              6 November 2021 19: 30
              0
              Quote: AllBiBek
              Meanwhile, they lie at the bottom of specially dug pits, often in a separate groove. Naturally, in ocher. Often around there is a composition of large plates, and unused ones.

              Didn't know about it!
    2. kalibr
      5 November 2021 13: 44
      +3
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      Then the well-fed and satisfied went to the nearest cave, painted it, they say, sleep well, dear comrade, you are now always with us, the memory of you will live for centuries.

      !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 5 November 2021 14: 12
        +3
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, how does the official science interpret these drawings? Surely there are some hypotheses ...
        And, yes, thanks for the stuff. hi
        1. depressant
          depressant 5 November 2021 14: 45
          +3
          Misha, your previous comment made me think. And what would I have done, living in a cave with my fellow tribesmen, if I had been drawn to portray something. And not just something, but exactly what worries - danger! Depicting animals on the walls at eye level - animals that are formidable opponents, taken seriously even by brave warriors, so that those who are not courageous will stumble upon them with their eyes? Yes, even at night? When, from the reflections of the fire, the images seem to start moving and frighten the fellow tribesmen? Oh no!
          And then I would have stumbled upon an idea: a bunch of fagots! And not just a heap, but a many-day supply of thin tree trunks, branches and twigs, which gradually, day after day, dry out from close fire, and only after that they easily ignite and burn well, steadily. Such thin trunks and large branches when set on fire are good not only in a fire, but also for protection from a bear or a neighboring tribe that climbs into my cave due to its own collapse. But I would not think about that. Piled up somehow so that they dry out better, these trunks and branches, if tamped in the right way, are an excellent support, climbing on which, you can easily reach the ceiling and, in the light of a fire, depict whatever you like on it. And hardly anyone will turn their heads up, peer at the ceiling and get scared, there are more important things to do. And skillfully laid on top of each other thinner branches will not let your legs fall through.
          Perhaps it was at first. And it became the rudiment of basket weaving, and over time - architecture. And then all these trunks and branches went as intended - into the fire)))
          1. kalibr
            5 November 2021 15: 44
            +2
            Quote: depressant
            Piled up somehow so that they dry out better, these trunks and branches, if tamped in the right way, are an excellent support, climbing on which, you can easily reach the ceiling and, in the light of a fire, depict whatever you like on it. And hardly anyone will turn their heads up, peer at the ceiling and get scared, there are more important things to do. And skillfully laid on top of each other thinner branches will not let your legs fall through.
            Perhaps it was at first. And it became the rudiment of basket weaving, and over time - architecture.

            What women you are ... smart! For a long time, for many years now, I have wanted to write a book about primitives. I think I know a lot. But I don't want to repeat myself. I found my own plot ... some invention of the ancients. But he could not think of how they thought of him. Broke the whole boss. I told my wife about the difficulties. And she told me in five minutes how they could come up with it. That is, one way or another it actually happened, but the notion itself is excellent and quite romantic. Here's how! And I thought for many years!
            1. depressant
              depressant 5 November 2021 16: 14
              +2
              And I thought for many years!

              Vyacheslav Olegovich, because the male Neanderthal ancestors mostly hunted, and the Neanderthals had to constantly invent how to cope with the household, raising and educating the younger generation without a bunch of modern kitchen and other equipment. And I'm not entirely sure that the drawings in the caves were done only by men. It seems to me that a strong creativity originated precisely in women and, to a lesser extent, in men. But since it is women who pass on their main genes to boys, then over time, the addition of two creative principles took place and resulted in the genius of men.
              1. kalibr
                5 November 2021 16: 22
                +3
                Quote: depressant
                a strong creativity originated in a woman

                Jean Auell has it well laid out. It is a pity that her last book, "Painted Caves", came out so boring ...
          2. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 5 November 2021 18: 16
            +1
            If we look at the plan of a cave, for example, Alcantara, we will see that this is a deaf cave with deep and narrow passages, and the drawings are located, including in the farthest nooks. The cave is literally all painted. It doesn't work out your way, Lyudmila Yakovlevna. smile
            You can live in a cave only in the immediate vicinity of the entrance, since only there you can make a fire, in the far nooks it is too dark, cold and damp.
            So, I think, the cave had an exclusively sacred meaning for its owners - in it they recorded their exploits, like a museum of hunting glory. smile Well, the likeness of a temple at the same time.
        2. kalibr
          5 November 2021 15: 37
          +3
          Interprets that they may have been elements of magic. Or ... that was their spiritual life. An attempt at self-expression through the nature seen. Few people are drawn, because the dependence on nature, animals, was very great. That is, again, magic - "I drew you, I honor you, be kind to me." Then, in the Neolithic era, everything will change. A person will portray himself with animals on an equal footing and even dominate!
          1. Liam
            Liam 5 November 2021 16: 31
            +3
            Much more interesting is the topic of why these drawings appeared almost simultaneously (by historical standards) and wherever there were people, on different continents. And suddenly, in the sense of homo sapiens, it had existed for thousands of 150 years before that, but did not indulge in drawings. And suddenly about 40 thousand years ago, they began to do this everywhere. Moreover, the same type of art was created by people separated by thousands of kilometers and in no way in contact with each other
            1. kalibr
              5 November 2021 18: 02
              +4
              Quote: Liam
              people separated by thousands of kilometers and not in contact with each other

              At one time, I had an article about the information field of people in which information is transmitted in an extrasensual way ...
              1. Liam
                Liam 5 November 2021 18: 44
                +2
                Quote: kalibr
                information is conveyed in an extrasensory manner ...

                Paleogenetics provides a more prosaic answer to this question.
            2. AllBiBek
              AllBiBek 6 November 2021 16: 33
              0
              So that's why they are cultures, that in large territories there are more or less the same type of traditions, both craft and cultural.
              The rock art of the Upper Paleolithic has very clear boundaries, styles, plots, and techniques. Gravette - some traditions, Madeleine - others, azelle - still others.
              There is such a classicism. Punk in everything will begin with the beginning of the Mesolithic revolution.
          2. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 5 November 2021 18: 17
            +1
            Well, I expected something like that. smile
            Thank you. hi
        3. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 6 November 2021 16: 17
          +1
          Like movies, perhaps - as decorations for certain rituals. They are usually so sniffed, and in most cases there are plot compositions.
          Handprints stand apart, but in the Paleolithic, in general, there is no single point of view in almost everything, and there are a lot of opinions about their art.
          But to draw no matter who you don’t trust, the drawings are always very high quality and brightly made, anyhow, how petroglyphs were scraped in the Mesolithic-Neolithic. And these have a direct feeling that there were art circles for gifted children.
    3. Andobor
      Andobor 5 November 2021 15: 32
      +5
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      the work was carried out by a "group of persons by prior agreement".

      That's right, people in the Upper Paleolithic lived in family groups of 20-30 people - a maximum, but at the same time they had a global society, united in tribes of 300-500, this breaks through genes. And regularly, once a year or maybe less often, individual groups or their representatives met in order to solve common affairs - to enter into marriage alliances with someone far away, who, where, when they hunt, and so on, at the same time they made something and gave the gathering significance, and these caves were places of gatherings, a kind of temples, with a high probability rituals of initiation were carried out there - they introduced young people into society.
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 5 November 2021 18: 28
        +3
        Agree. Temple, museum, historical and cultural center - all in one bottle. smile
  14. hohol95
    hohol95 5 November 2021 13: 38
    +3
    It turns out that the American continent did not provide scientists with such evidence of the life of ancient people?
    Europe, Asia, Africa - these are the main places of settlement.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 5 November 2021 13: 52
      +4
      Why? There are enough petroglyphs all over America.
    2. Phil77
      Phil77 5 November 2021 14: 03
      +6
      Niall Mile Canyon.
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 5 November 2021 14: 17
        +1
        Have you come across images similar to the Spanish "fat calves"?
      2. depressant
        depressant 5 November 2021 15: 25
        +2
        Niall Mile Canyon.

        The one on the right knelt down, it means he is hiding, and his arrow is aimed at the shepherd in order to kill, and the herd will be stolen by the killer. And smaller, so less important assistants are available to the hijacker.
        This is understandable.
        But what is in the middle? What is the subject? It looks like a vessel with two handles. This, too, can be understood somehow. It doesn't matter in what way the vessel is made. The important thing is that it must be carried by two, for it is heavy and, obviously, intended for collecting goat's milk. But these, on legs, are round - are they what or who? )))
  15. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 5 November 2021 14: 24
    +7
    - Dad, tell me, why did primitive people make rock paintings?
    - You see, son, the times were wild, uncivilized. Nobody knew how to spell a three-letter word, so they drew all sorts of nonsense!
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 November 2021 18: 54
      +3
      Nobody knew how to spell a three-letter word, so they drew all sorts of nonsense!
      Ischo?
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 5 November 2021 21: 13
        +1
        No - food.
        "You have to think about the house."
  16. depressant
    depressant 5 November 2021 16: 01
    +1
    Now about the paint.
    With this it is quite simple and at the same time not easy.
    Still not possessing the skills of developed speech, people already knew that having accidentally got dirty with clay, they, hiding in the bushes, are less noticeable to fellow tribesmen, and therefore even more so for enemies. With animals, the number did not pass, since they are guided by smell, by smell. So the application of military camouflage paint using different colors of clay was a common practice, I believe, even in the Lower Paleolithic.
    But how did the clay turn into paint? Again, my guess. Those people didn't wash that often. And it turned out that it was much more difficult to tear off the dried clay crust from the face or from the body than from a stone tool, which, if necessary, was easily washed off with water. Because on the human body, clay was mixed with sebum secreted by the pores. Near a hot campfire, fat was cured, that is, the formation of ultra-long molecular chains, as a result, the war paint was removed poorly. And it took some time to understand that the clay must be dried, grinded and mixed with the melted fat of the animal. And only after that it was possible to create masterpieces on the ceilings of the caves. I suppose they had brushes.
    1. kalibr
      5 November 2021 16: 23
      +2
      Quote: depressant
      I suppose they had brushes.

      There were, they even found something similar to them!
    2. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 6 November 2021 16: 27
      +1
      Yes, everything is easier there. Ochery clays, they always found them. Plus, cinnabar, too, and the composition of the paints was included. More bone charcoal.
      They also burned ferruginous nodules, there, from heat treatment, a clot of powder similar in color to ocher is formed inside there (although it floats there, from yellow to purple).
      In their parking lots everything is in ocher, everything in general. All the pantry pits with artifacts, all the stubs of figurines, even at the bottom of the meat pits - and even then a layer of ocher.
      They even poured fires on her before leaving, and the hearth stones were often rubbed against her.
  17. Yurahip
    Yurahip 5 November 2021 19: 33
    +1
    Prehistoric house of culture, circles, sections, choral studios ...
  18. Soveticos
    Soveticos 5 November 2021 23: 10
    +1
    Thank you, Vyacheslav. We are waiting for the continuation.
    1. kalibr
      6 November 2021 07: 04
      +1
      Already written. Waiting for release ...
  19. Diviz
    Diviz 6 November 2021 11: 45
    +1
    Well, what else. The starry sky was depicted in the form of animals.
    Stars were painted on the bones of the mammoth. The images mean the cyclical and regularity of events or a meteorite flying by.
  20. Illanatol
    Illanatol 17 December 2021 13: 45
    0
    Quote: Fitter65
    You read it and you can immediately see what is the level of culture in the West and in Russia.


    Yeah, visible. Especially the progress of culture in the West .... "forward to the Past, to the caves!"
    In ancient times, the visual culture developed from abstractionism, through impressionism, to the highest form - to realism.
    In modern times, Western art has gone in the opposite direction.
    As for everyday culture, its level in the West in our time would make a depressing impression even on troglodytes.
    So there is nothing to run into Russia. We're in the mainstream, however laughing