Guderian Failed: The Heroic Defense of Tula

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Guderian Failed: The Heroic Defense of Tula
Soviet 85-mm anti-aircraft gun of the 1939 model of the 52-K of the 6th battery of the 732th anti-aircraft artillery regiment on the Proletarsky bridge in Tula

Enemy breakthrough


On September 30, 1941, the German army launched Operation Typhoon, an offensive against Moscow. In the southern section, the 2nd tank Guderian's group (from October 5 - 2nd Tank Army) and Weikhs' 2nd Field Army struck in the Oryol-Bryansk direction. The Nazis broke through the front of the Soviet Bryansk Front. Guderian's tanks moved quickly forward, on October 3 they captured Oryol. Three days later, Karachev and Bryansk fell. The Bryansk front was cut, the divisions of the 3rd, 13th and 50th armies were surrounded.

However, the German command paid increased attention to the breakthrough and did not attach particular importance to the destruction of the Soviet armies caught in the cauldron. As a result, it was not possible to create a tight encirclement ring, although the Soviet divisions suffered heavy losses, especially in the material part, they were able to reach their own. At the same time, the Soviet front at that time actually collapsed, and our command could not organize any unblocking strikes. The withdrawal of the directorates of the armies and the remnants of the troops allowed the Headquarters to restore the defense in this sector with the involvement of reserves, divisions from the depths of the country and other sectors of the front, the NKVD troops, schools, etc.




On October 7, 1941, Guderian was ordered to continue the offensive against Tula. Guderian's tanks were supposed to bypass Moscow from the southeast, and then from the east.

The Soviet Headquarters, in order to prevent the enemy from breaking through to Moscow in the south-west, decided to put forward those with reserves so that they would detain the enemy until fresh forces arrived.

The newly formed 1st Guards Rifle Corps of General Dmitry Lelyushenko was thrown towards the enemy tank divisions. It included the 6th Guards Rifle Division, the 5th Airborne Corps, the 4th and 11th Tank Brigades, the Tula Arms-Technical (Artillery) School, the 36th Motorcycle and 34th Border Regiments, two artillery regiments, two rocket artillery battalions and the 6th reserve air group. Lelyushenko's building was supposed to close the road to Tula.

Lelyushenko immediately left for Mtsensk. At first, under his command there was only a motorcycle regiment and a Tula school, then Katukov's 4th tank brigade arrived. Soviet tankers struck a counter blow at the enemy and even broke into Oryol. At this time, the main forces of the corps approached. Fierce fighting ensued.

Lelyushenko recalled:

“For nine days the soldiers of the 1st Special Guards Rifle Corps fought in the fields of the Oryol region. They changed the line four times, leading a mobile defense, exhausting the enemy in fierce battles. At the fifth line on the Zusha River, they stopped the enemy and held their positions until October 24 ”.

Then Lelyushenko's corps was included in the 50th Army.

Thus, Guderian's 2nd Panzer Army was detained in the Mtsensk area. The Germans could not use the defeat of the troops of the Bryansk Front and break through to Moscow along the shortest route Oryol - Tula - Moscow, Bryansk - Moscow.

By October 23, the armies of the Bryansk Front, including the 50th, having suffered heavy losses, reached their own. The 50th Army of General Ermakov again entered the battle, covering the line on the Oka in the Belev area, closing the road to Tula. The army was reinforced with units of the Tula combat area - a military school, a workers' regiment and the 14th reserve rifle brigade.


Tanks Pz.Kpfw. III 35th Tank Regiment of the Wehrmacht with an assault force and artillery observers on armored vehicles Sd. Kfz.250 are moving along the road Mtsensk - Tula


The city's defenders are ready for battle. Tula, intersection of Sovetskaya and Kommunarov streets

Defense of Tula


On October 24, 1941, the battle for Tula began.

From the beginning of the battle for Moscow, Tula began to prepare for defense. The approaches to the city were covered with anti-tank ditches, wire barriers were pulled up, road sections were mined, anti-tank hedgehogs and gouges were set up on the streets, and barricades were erected. Local residents took an active part in the construction of fortifications. Three defensive lines were created around Tula. At the same time, the evacuation of factories and enterprises, primarily the military, was carried out.

An important role in the defense of Tula was played by the City Defense Committee created on October 22, which was headed by the first secretary of the regional party committee Vasily Zhavoronkov. It also included N.I. Chmutov - chairman of the regional executive committee, V.N.Sukhodolsky - head of the regional department of the NKVD and Colonel A.K. Tula and Stalinogorsk) - the commandant of the city. The city committee aroused the people to fight the enemy. The Tula workers' regiment (69 fighters) is formed from the fighter battalions.


Members of the Tula City Defense Committee: N. I. Chmutov, V. G. Zhavoronkov (chairman), A. K. Melnikov, V. N. Sukhodolsky

The 50th Army, replenished with new forces, offered stubborn resistance to Guderian's army. On October 30, the 217th, 290th, 154th, 173rd and 260th rifle divisions were included in the Tula combat area. It was headed by the Deputy Commander of the 50th Army, Major General V.S.Popov.


Under pressure from superior enemy forces, the troops of the 50th Army retreated to Tula. The neighboring 3rd army retreated east, towards Efremov.

German mobile formations, advancing from the Mtsensk region, on October 29 went directly to Tula. The Nazis captured Yasnaya Polyana, a metallurgical plant, the village of Kosaya Gora, Ivanovskie Dachi. The Germans had a serious advantage in manpower and equipment (two tank divisions) and planned to take the city on the move.

For three days, there were fierce battles. Our troops repelled one attack after another. So, from October 30 to November 1, 38 German tanks were knocked out. Despite the fact that only part of the troops of the 50th Army withdrew to Tula, it, together with the Tula garrison (156th NKVD regiment of Major S.F. Major A.P. Gorshkov), relying on anti-tank defenses, defended the city until the arrival of reinforcements.


Barricades on Kommunarov Street in Tula


Barricades on Krasnoarmeyskaya Street in Tula

Guderian stopped


In November 1941, the German high command decided to continue the offensive and "end Moscow." The German Headquarters was going to dismember the Russian front defending the capital, encircle Moscow from the north and south, and seize it. The Nazis hoped that the Russian forces were already exhausted, and Moscow would fall under the decisive blows of the Wehrmacht. Guderian's 2nd Army was reinforced with two army corps and reinforced with tanks. The Germans still had the advantage in manpower, artillery and tanks. And in the directions of the main attacks, where the mobile formations were advancing, the Nazis had a 6-7-fold advantage.

The 2nd Panzer Army attacked Tula, Stalinogorsk and Kashira. The offensive was supported by the 2nd Field Army. The right flank of the 4th Kluge field army, which was preparing a strike on Serpukhov, was embroiled in heavy protracted battles with the mechanized cavalry group of General Belov, which, with the support of Zakharkin's 49th army, struck a counterattack on the enemy.

On November 18, Guderian threw the main forces of his army into the attack, bypassing Tula from the southeast, breaking through to Kolomna and Kashira, and then to Moscow. Having broken through the defenses of the 50th Army, the Nazis occupied the Bolokhovo-Dedilovo area.

On November 21, German tanks occupied the Uzlovaya and Stalinogorsk area, on the 26th, they broke into Mikhailov and Serebryanye Prudy. The Germans came to the close approaches to Kashira, cut the railway and the Tula-Moscow highway north of Tula. However, the Nazis could not break through further.

Belov's cavalry corps was urgently turned to the Kashira region, which, together with the 112th Panzer Division and other troops, struck a counterattack on the enemy on November 27-30. Guderian's troops pushed back 10-15 km south of Kashira to Mordves.

Guderian regrouped his troops and on December 2 tried to break through bypassing Tula from the northeast and east, encircling the divisions of the 50th Army and taking the stubborn city. At the same time, the Nazis attacked north of Tula from the west. The Nazis advanced several kilometers, but could not break through the defenses of the Soviet troops.

The troops of the 50th Army, led by General Boldin on November 22, repulsed the enemy's blow. Our troops have restored communication between Tula and Moscow. At this time, the reserve 10th Army was deployed in the Ryazan region.

The German army was drained of blood and could no longer advance. Guderian began the withdrawal of troops from the ledge formed northeast of Tula.

Thus, the path for the Nazis to Moscow from the south was finally closed.


Calculation of the 85-mm anti-aircraft gun 52-K of the 6th battery of the 732th anti-aircraft artillery regiment on the defense lines


Padded half-track tractor Sd.Kfz. 11. The car was destroyed in the Rogozhensky village (Tula) in the period from 30.10.1941/10.11.1941/XNUMX to XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX.

Tula gingerbread


Before the war, Tula had a population of 285 thousand people; the city was one of the major industrial centers of the USSR. More than 6,8 thousand industrial enterprises were located on the territory of the region. Therefore, its inhabitants played an important role in the defense of Tula.

Tula is a city of gunsmiths. In particular, Tula weapons the plant, which switched to a three-shift operation, supplied the army with more than 188 thousand rifles of the Tokarev system in just two months of the war. In October 1941, the plant was evacuated to the Orenburg region.

The Tula workers, despite the evacuation of most of the enterprises to the east of the country, themselves set up the production of the necessary weapons and ammunition, carried out repairs of tanks (they restored about 50 tanks) and guns. One of the enterprises produced anti-tank mines. The workers of the former confectionery factory also helped this production. They called the mines - "Tula gingerbread".

The mines went to the front, to the sappers who erected minefields on the approaches to the city. They liked the name. Other Soviet soldiers also liked the expression. As a result, now everything that came from Tula to the front - shells and cartridges, mortars and mines - began to be called Tula gingerbread.


Repair of the Soviet 76-mm F-22 divisional cannon at the Tula Cartridge Plant during the defense of Tula. In the photo: the head of the artillery range of the plant N. I. Kuzmin (first from the right), locksmiths F. G. Blyudnev, V. P. Zavarzin, A. A. Platonov


Repair of a light tank T-26 at the Tula plant "Shtamp" during the siege of the city

The city was under siege for 43 days, at which time more than 1,1 thousand buildings were destroyed. Thirty-three districts of the Tula region were completely occupied, and another 33 were partially occupied. For two months of occupation, the Nazis destroyed and burned more than 6 villages and villages, almost completely destroyed several cities - Epifan, Venev, Mother of God, Chern.

The Nazis staged a mass terror, destroying local residents suspected of having links with the partisans. Soviet partisans were active in the region: 31 detachments and dozens of sabotage groups were created. The partisans destroyed hundreds of invaders, attacked communications, disrupting the supply of the enemy.

The troops of the 50th Army and the townspeople showed massive heroism and defended Tula. In total, over the years of the war, more than 460 thousand residents of the Tula region left to defend the Motherland, more than 88 thousand died, over 90 thousand were missing, about 3 thousand died in captivity. 35,5 thousand residents of the region received awards during the Great Patriotic War. 226 Tula became Heroes of the Soviet Union, three - twice Hero.

For the courage and heroism of the defenders of the city in 1976, Tula received the honorary title of "Hero City".


The battalion commander of the 437th Infantry Regiment of the 154th Infantry Division, Captain Revaz Nestorovich Gabaraev (1906-1996) (left) and the gunner of the anti-tank rifle (PTRD-41), the Red Army soldier Evgeny Fedorovich Pichuzhkin (1912-1941) in an ambush (Pichuzhkin will die on 13.12.1941 .XNUMX near the village of Petelino near Tula)
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  1. +19
    29 October 2021 06: 12
    Defense of Tula
    Igor Melnikov

    Enemies near Tula. Forty-first.
    Fighting, bombing, roads abounding.
    Tightened nerves are buzzing.
    Workers form a regiment.

    At the collection point, early in the morning,
    You get a carbine.
    Instead of you, in the cold shop,
    Your son is getting to the bench.

    Fight! What else is left
    When does a German target Moscow?
    Already burst into Shchekino
    His "Deer Head".

    And under Guderian's heel,
    That Krupp put on his armor,
    Yasnaya Polyana languishes.
    And you - did not give up, you - managed,

    As of old, on the Kulikovo field,
    Become an impregnable wall.
    A simple worker from Chulkovo.
    Soviet man!
    Hero!
    1. +13
      29 October 2021 06: 39
      The German broke his teeth on the Tula gingerbread! Guderian in his memoirs blames Hitler for everything, frost, lice ..., anyone! By the way, in his scribbles, there is an interesting moment about the mood of the Russian people in the occupied territories, which the Germans took into account when planning a war against the USSR, exactly the opposite:
      “One could judge the mood that prevailed among the Russian population, by the way, from the statements of an old tsarist general with whom I had to talk in those days in Orel. He said:“ If you had come 20 years ago, we would have met you with great enthusiasm. Now it's too late. We just now began to come to life again, and you came and threw us back 20 years, so we must start all over again. Now we are fighting for Russia, and in this we are all united "
      1. +3
        29 October 2021 10: 16
        Interestingly, purely out of scientific curiosity, minus who thrashed - a descendant of "fast Heinz" beaten near Tula? laughing
        1. +2
          29 October 2021 15: 22
          Most likely, the unfinished Bendera)))
        2. 0
          6 January 2022 19: 03
          Quote: Finches
          Interestingly, purely out of scientific curiosity, minus who thrashed - a descendant of "fast Heinz" beaten near Tula? laughing

          I believe that the compatriot and thrashed the minus. If we compare Guderian's memoirs with the articles and comments of our kindest compatriots, then Guderian appears like a "patriot of the USSR" when he characterizes the actions of the Red Army
  2. +7
    29 October 2021 07: 02
    one of the main heroes of the defense of Tula became M.E. Katukov - his 4th tank brigade, using tank ambushes, managed to defeat the superior forces of the 4th tank division of the Germans, which rushed to Moscow without proper reconnaissance
    1. +4
      29 October 2021 08: 18
      Quote: Olgovich
      one of the main heroes of the defense of Tula became M.E. Katukov - his 4th tank brigade, using tank ambushes, managed to defeat the superior forces of the 4th tank division of the Germans, which rushed to Moscow without proper reconnaissance

      This is how MYTHS are born ... The heroism of the Katukov brigade is not questioned by anyone. But next to it fought no less, and maybe more heroic 11th tank brigade.
      By the evening of October 24, our delegate returned by plane from the Mtsensk region. He reported the bad news to Zakharov:
      The severity of the enemy's blow fell mainly on the shoulders of the 6th Guards Rifle Division and the 11th Tank Brigade. For the most part, for two days they hold back the onslaught of the enemy forces several times superior to them. They inflicted significant damage on people and military equipment, especially in tanks. But they themselves suffered very heavy losses. Lieutenant Colonel V. A. Bondar, commander of a tank brigade, fell on the battlefield today

      This brigade took part in the deadly attack on Mtsensk, carrying out the order to destroy the then top secret Katyushas abandoned in the city. Everyone went, but there they stayed ... forever


      On October 10-11, in battles in the city and in an attempt to destroy 7 BM-13-16 units captured by the Germans, the brigade lost 5 T-34 tanks, 5 KV-1 tanks, 65 wounded, 16 killed and 84 soldiers and officers were missing
      1. +1
        29 October 2021 09: 43
        Quote: svp67
        This is how MYTHS are born ..

        what is .... a myth? belay
        Katukov did not fight (and very successfully) at Tula?
        1. -1
          29 October 2021 22: 31
          Quote: Olgovich
          Katukov did not fight (and very successfully) at Tula?

          Fought. Take it easy. At the initial stage of the defense of Tula, the main load in the defense of Tula fell on the 50th Army and the NKVD regiment that had escaped from the encirclement ... the Katukov brigade came later ...
          And at a later stage, a mechanized cavalry group Katukov from near Kashira hit the German ...
          Grandma fought in that army and also about Belov's "army" is well known to all residents of that part of the Moscow region ...
          The streets of many cities in the Tula region (and not only) and Tula itself bear the name of the 50th Army ...
          Before writing nonsense about the fact that supposedly only by forces
          The 4th tank brigade, using tank ambushes, managed to defeat the superior forces of the 4th tank division of the Germans
          find out the staffing of the Katukov brigade and so on of the Germans at that time ...
          1. -3
            30 October 2021 09: 49
            Quote: Lara Croft
            Fought. Take it easy.

            Calm down, Stall-why is it so excited? wink
            Quote: Lara Croft
            Before you write nonsense

            Nna:.
            The battles for Mtsensk became the finest hour of the Katukov tank brigade, which was able to defeat the 4th tank division of the Germans (the command of the division neglected reconnaissance and security and ran into a sudden blow from the brigade)

            https://topwar.ru / 9859-chernyy-oktyabr-1941-goda-razgrom-bryanskogo-fronta-i-vyazemskiy-kotel.html


            Got it, no? No.
            1. 0
              30 October 2021 14: 13
              Quote: Olgovich
              The stall, why is it so excited?

              You can't even tell your wife that way. There is no reason, right? Jonah.
              Nna:

              Done what?
              Here's a link for you, too, with a tactical map near Mtsensk .... I think there is no need to write about the fact that in addition to the 4th brigade, there were also formations and units of border guards, paratroopers, artillerymen and the same 11th brigade. ...
              https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5fc6920d9a99037781c35439/oktiabr-1941-goda-boevye-deistviia-4i-tankovoi-brigady-pod-mcenskom-metod-katukova-6141cbed619be97d53fb9faa
              or indicate the individual periods of the battles of the Katukov brigade, otherwise it turns out that he won one World War II ...
              It took von Langermann's 4th Panzer Division nine days to cover 60 kilometers from Orel to Mtsensk. During this time, the division lost 133 tanks in battles and up to an infantry regiment. However, it should be borne in mind that the battlefield constantly remained with the Germans, they restored the equipment and did not count themselves as losses, so that in Soviet and German documents, the picture of the battle is very different. The brigade's own losses amounted to 23 tanks and 555 people killed, wounded and missing.

              https://www.maximonline.ru/longreads/photogallery/_article/mtsensk-battle/
              The 4th tank brigade of the Germans suffered significant losses, but was not defeated and fulfilled its task, the 4th tank brigade of Katukov, having suffered heavy losses in materiel (almost half of the tanks), also fulfilled its task of stopping the advance of the Germans ...
              Nevertheless, it is completely unknown how many tanks the Germans put into service in the period from October 4 to 12, 1941. Given the well-oiled repair mechanism in the Wehrmacht units, it can be assumed that for each irrecoverable loss there are from 3 to 6 units of damaged equipment. Of course, the total number of destroyed / knocked out German tanks could also include vehicles damaged by the actions of other units attached to the brigade (for example, the NKVD regiment or the 11th TBR). It is also not excluded that Katukov's report includes knocked-out tanks of the 3rd TD of the Wehrmacht, which probably nevertheless met with the tankers of the 4th TBR during fierce battles in the city of Mtsensk. But there is no exact data on this yet.

              https://andrewbek-1974.livejournal.com/41420.html
              Got it, no?

              I remembered you (though you were a higher "rank" than you are now), here you constantly switch to personalities when your arguments are limited to one reference or you cannot clarify them ...
              Don't cough ...
              1. -3
                30 October 2021 14: 49
                Quote: Lara Croft
                You can't even tell your wife that way. ...

                я you I say this, Starek-and that's enough for you
                Quote: Lara Croft
                Done what?

                whitewashed
                Quote: Lara Croft
                brigade of Katukov, otherwise it turns out that he won the Second World War ...

                where is it written for me, Larek?
                Quote: Lara Croft
                But accurate there is no data yet.

                so when you find it, come. Now what have you done?

                You are given a link and an excerpt from the article MILITARY REVIEW- study!
                Quote: Lara Croft
                I remembered you (though you were a higher "rank" than you are now), here you constantly switch to personalities when your arguments are limited to one reference or you cannot clarify them ...

                , I do not remember, Larek, neither you nor your deceitful (I never turn to personality, I never start to "you") "personality", and if, yes, someday, you will learn not to be rude ("calm down") and talk on "you" with a stranger, then the answer will be the same.

                Did it get there?
      2. +5
        29 October 2021 13: 50
        Do not play all the heroes and tankers and infantry and pilots and workers and peasants. Everything..
    2. +3
      29 October 2021 15: 01
      Quote: Olgovich
      one of the main heroes of the defense of Tula became M.E. Katukov - his 4th tank brigade, using tank ambushes, managed to defeat the superior forces of the 4th tank division of the Germans, which rushed to Moscow without proper reconnaissance

      To be precise, Katukov's brigade group was able to detain Eberbach's Kampfgruppe for several days, giving our forces time to build a defense. And then Katukov was able to break out of the emerging ring - when the Germans bypassed his positions and took Mtsensk.
      More precisely, there will still be Katukov vs Eberbach, as a variant of Lelyushenko vs von Langerman und Erlenkamp or even the commander of 26A, Major General A.V. Kurkin vs the commander of 2 TA Kh. Guderian.
      © hranitel-slov
      And now we are not talking about the defeat of the Germans.
      The Germans from 4 PzDiv did not leave an accurate and clear final number of losses (everything was lost ...) - only by day and the balance is 4.10-12.10
      As a result, about 14-16 cars come out.
      By October 16, only 38 tanks remained in service out of 59 on October 4. In particular, the losses of the advancing 35th Panzer Regiment of the 4th Panzer Division from 3.10 to 13.10 amounted to 16 tanks (of which 2 Pz.II, 8 Pz.III and 6 Pz.IV) and another 1 vehicle from the 79th reconnaissance tank battalion (NARA T315 R197).
      The 4th brigade alone lost 23 tanks, 24 vehicles, and 555 people were killed.
      (TsAMO RF, f. 3060, op. 1, d. 2.)
      Moreover, in the "Final Report" the total losses of 31 tanks (3 KV-1, 4 T-34 and 24 BT), of which 19 were left on the battlefield.
      In the 11th brigade, the situation is even worse; by the end of October, it almost completely lost its materiel. (losses in battles 4-11.10: 6 T-34 6.10 and 5 T-34 + 5 KV-1 11.10)
      © he
      Nevertheless, the actions of our troops near Mtsensk can be considered a feat.
      ... by the standards of 41 years old, maintaining a combat-ready brigade, not getting surrounded, not falling for the enemy's tricks, trying to wrest the initiative from him, to impose his own conditions - can be considered a feat. Of course, there was no feat in the style of Ozerov's cinema, where hundreds of IS-3 and T-44 are cut into each other, but the personal feat of soldiers and officers is beyond doubt. Their names are worth knowing.
  3. +5
    29 October 2021 08: 13
    The city's defenders are ready for battle. Tula, intersection of Sovetskaya and Kommunarov streets
    And the right soldier has an interesting machine gun. Who knows what kind of "trophy"?
    Tula is a city of gunsmiths.
    As it was proved, Tokarev rifles, which they did not manage to deliver to the troops, went into the armament of the working regiment, as a result, the Germans began to note the very high density of fire of our units, there was even a rumor that every Red Army soldier was armed with a light machine gun ...
    1. +4
      29 October 2021 10: 39
      Quote: svp67
      And the right soldier has an interesting machine gun. Who knows what kind of "trophy"?

      This is not a machine gun, but a captured PTR Pz.B.38
      1. +2
        30 October 2021 06: 18
        These are the reasons I read VO
    2. +2
      29 October 2021 11: 18
      Quote: svp67
      As it was proved, Tokarev rifles went into the armament of the working regiment, which they did not manage to deliver to the troops.

      Actually, at first, the Lebel and Lee-Enfield rifles, which remained after WWI, were used. Only November 28 часть foreign rifles were replaced by SVT. But in the hands of poorly trained fighters, the "Svetka" very often went out of order. So, one should not talk about the mass arming of the working regiment with SVT-40 rifles. In the course went all cash and captured weapons. In addition, for example, it was decided to assemble the decommissioned Degtyarev DS-39 machine guns from parts rejected due to inconsistency with the drawings and specifications and remaining after the evacuation. The assembly was carried out without the use of gauges... Each machine gun was assembled individually, the parts were selected and adjusted, the automation was debugged and the work was checked during the shooting.
      The assembled machine guns were checked by firing a burst of 50 rounds from a canvas tape. The machine gun was accepted only if it did not misfire. Aimed shooting, of course, was not carried out - there was no shooting gallery at the plant (TSZ).
      1. +7
        29 October 2021 12: 17
        Quote: Ashes of Klaas
        But in the hands of poorly trained fighters, the "Svetka" very often went out of order.

        But not in this case ... These people did them, that is, in technical terms, they were much higher than the average fighter of the Red Army
        1. 0
          29 October 2021 12: 51
          Quote: svp67
          But not in this case ...

          In this, in this.
          Quote: svp67
          These people made them

          As part of the Workers' Regiment, which at the beginning of the fighting numbered, according to various sources, from 820 to 980 people, workers fought different enterprises and institutions of Tula, Leninsky and Stalinogorsky districts, most of which had nothing to do with weapons - for example, a distillery, a Stalinogorsk fireclay factory, a brick factory, etc. All skilled gunsmith workers were evacuated along with defense enterprises ... Agree, a pattern maker, rationer or lubricator from an arms factory is unlikely
          Quote: svp67
          in technical terms, they were much higher than the average fighter of the Red Army

          Why repeat replicated nonsense?
          1. +2
            29 October 2021 12: 57
            Quote: Ashes of Klaas
            In this, in this.

            No, not that ...
            Quote: Ashes of Klaas
            As part of the Workers' Regiment, which, according to various sources, numbered from 820 to 980 people at the beginning of the fighting, workers from various enterprises and institutions of Tula, Leninsky and Stalinogorsky districts fought, most of which had nothing to do with weapons - for example, a distillery, Stalinogorsk fireclay plant, brick plant, etc.

            Sometimes you turn on your head. There is a war going on, everyone is being drafted into the army, but not these, but why? Yes, because these enterprises began to work for the defense, creating weapons.
            Quote: Ashes of Klaas
            Why repeat replicated nonsense?

            Are you sure you are not doing this now?
            Quote: Ashes of Klaas
            Agree, a pattern maker, rationer or lubricator from an arms factory is unlikely

            I disagree. The same arms factory produced AVTs until the very beginning of the defense, which means they had enough trained personnel.
            In addition, the personnel of the NKVD regiment, which was also armed with the products of a local enterprise, were involved in the defense of the city.
            1. -1
              29 October 2021 14: 36
              Quote: svp67
              Sometimes you turn on your head.

              I don't turn it off.
              Quote: svp67
              There is a war going on, everyone is being drafted into the army, but not these, but why?

              Silly question - because the reservation. And because the evacuation of the enterprise.
              Quote: svp67
              Yes, because these enterprises began to work for the defense, creating weapons.

              "Started" is not the right word. Started TOZ in 1712. And in October the 41st was interrupted and moved to Mednogorsk along with the engineering and technical personnel and qualified personnel booked.
              Quote: svp67
              The same arms factory produced AVTs until the very beginning of the defense.

              How, if the last echelon from TOZ left for evacuation on October 27? In general, the plant has been in the collection mode since the beginning of October. Did you mold SVT locksmiths on the knee?
              Quote: svp67
              In addition, the personnel of the NKVD regiment, which was also armed with the products of a local enterprise, were involved in the defense of the city.

              We were not talking about personnel units. So there were anti-aircraft gunners, and rocket launchers, and tanks.
              1. 0
                30 October 2021 04: 25
                Quote: Ashes of Klaas
                I don't turn it off.

                Then everything is bad ...
                Quote: Ashes of Klaas
                And in October the 41st was interrupted and moved to Mednogorsk along with the engineering and technical personnel and qualified personnel booked.

                But not all left, since the release continued in the old place. Well, it is said that the release continued from those parts that were released earlier, that is, in fact, the assembly was in progress
                Quote: Ashes of Klaas
                How, if the last echelon from TOZ left for evacuation on October 27? In general, the plant has been in the collection mode since the beginning of October. Did you mold SVT locksmiths on the knee?

                More than one enterprise did not move 100%, people remained in the old place for various reasons. Can you explain how, for example, the Kirovsky plant managed to work throughout the war in both Leningrad and Chelyabinsk.
                Quote: Ashes of Klaas
                We were not talking about personnel units. So there were anti-aircraft gunners, and rocket launchers, and tanks.

                But this part also turned out to be armed with local products.
    3. -4
      29 October 2021 11: 54
      Quote: svp67
      there was even a rumor that every Red Army soldier was armed with a light machine gun ...

      I will answer you to this nonsense with your own words:
      Quote: svp67
      This is how MYTHS are born ...

      More precisely, this is how they are taken apart. Where did you get these noodles? On Yandex Zen?
      1. +1
        29 October 2021 12: 29
        Quote: Ashes of Klaas
        Where did you get these noodles?

        Well, for example here ...
        1. -2
          29 October 2021 12: 56
          Quote: svp67
          Well, for example here ...

          laughing laughing
          Yeees! The channel with such a modest title "TRUTH OF LIFE" and a lisping host is a sacred tablet, no doubt. I have no more questions. hi
          1. +2
            29 October 2021 13: 01
            Quote: Ashes of Klaas
            Oh yeah!

            Exactly, yeah ... A person really digs out very interesting facts.
            Quote: Ashes of Klaas
            The channel with such a modest name "TRUTH OF LIFE" and a lisping host

            Before you accuse someone of something, you would not hurt to look in the mirror ...
            And as a matter of fact, do you have data to refute what was said by the author of this channel?
            1. -1
              29 October 2021 14: 02
              Quote: svp67
              A person really digs out very interesting facts.

              Of course, I give him his due, but you refer to him, and he, in turn, disdains to indicate the sources. Where did the fable about some officer come from, allegedly reporting upstairs about "completely light machine guns", which, like, made Eberbach say "whoa-oo-oo" to his Kampfgroup? From someone's memoirs, apparently? And why the next day the Germans were not afraid of "infantry with light machine guns" and put the Workers' Regiment to flight in the southern defensive sector?
              Quote: svp67
              You shouldn't hurt to look in the mirror ...

              Well, I agree here, I am harsh in my judgments, I confess.
              1. 0
                30 October 2021 04: 27
                Quote: Ashes of Klaas
                And why the next day the Germans were not afraid of "infantry with light machine guns" and put the Workers' Regiment to flight in the southern defensive sector?

                Are you familiar with combat tactics? It is a common thing, when an advanced subunit buried itself in defenses, met resistance and was deprived of proper support, the same artillery was forced to wait for the approach of the main forces.
                And by the way, in the memoirs of Guderian on October 29, 1941, and it was then that the disputed episode occurred, he writes:

                October 28 ... The attack on Tula continued. Due to the lack of fuel, Eberbach put one battalion of the "Great Germany" regiment on the tanks. We reached Pisareve, 30 km south of Tula. The reconnaissance of the 43rd Army Corps reached Odoevo.
                On October 29, our lead tank subunits reached a point 4 km away from Tula. An attempt to capture the city on the move ran into strong anti-tank and air defense and ended in failure, and we suffered significant losses in tanks and officers.

                That is, they could not take Tula right away on that day.
                In the operational summary of the headquarters of the Bryansk Front about the battle on October 29-30 on the southern outskirts of Tula it is said sparingly:
                "Parts 50 A (258, 154, 260, 217 sd, 108 td, regiment of workers fought with tanks and motorized infantry pr-ka on the southwestern and southern outskirts of TULA.
                From 14.00 to 30.10, street battles were fought on the southern outskirts of TULA with 19 tanks of the pr-ka breaking through.
                5 tanks were destroyed in street battles.
                32 tbr, unloaded by 14.00 30.10 in the area of ​​st. KHOMYAKOVO, directed to TULA.
                About 41 cd, 173, 290, 299, 194 sd, 58 zs, 11 tbr - no information has been received "
                In the area to which Eberbach's tanks and trucks with infantry jumped out, the defenders of the southern combat area held the defense. It was commanded by Major Kravchenko, who had just been appointed to this position. He had to "wash off his guilt" in front of Colonel Seryogin with blood. True, judging by his actions, Kravchenko had a firm and direct character and did not feel his guilt before anyone, but simply fought honestly.
                By that time, Major Kravchenko had the 69th brigade of the NKVD troops, the 732nd anti-aircraft artillery regiment and Tula worker regiment.
              2. 0
                30 October 2021 06: 45
                I have heard this "legend" that the Germans had rumors that half of the Red Army men were armed with handbrakes even in Soviet childhood.
                This is due to ABC
                So there is a reason for the legend
                I don't want to argue with anyone
                1. -1
                  30 October 2021 09: 48
                  Quote: kytx
                  I don't want to argue with anyone

                  yes I won't either. Man clings to old myths - his business. It is my right to be a skeptic. That's it, we dispersed.
  4. +2
    29 October 2021 11: 36
    BP The Tula worker is not mentioned at least in passing.


    On VO there was a well-illustrated article by Skomorokhov about him.
    1. +2
      29 October 2021 12: 26
      Quote: Ashes of Klaas
      BP The Tula worker is not mentioned at least in passing.

      Although it can be clearly seen on the railway. Tula train station
  5. +1
    29 October 2021 15: 05
    Photo --- Calculation of the 85-mm anti-aircraft gun 52-K of the 6th battery of the 732th anti-aircraft artillery regiment on the defense lines
    The gun looks not at the zenith, but at the Russian field ... My third grandfather / yes, it happens / in my first grade he fried eggs before my lessons and told a lot about 52. He used them from the new border and far beyond Minsk. The materiel was then crushed, and the surviving numbers and all sorts of tails in the form of control and communications departments joined the group with battles that passed the territory occupied by the enemy and escaped from the encirclement. Two episodes he told me in detail, sorry in the mid-eighties I did not have the opportunity to record his words and emotions documented ... one battle --- the remnants of their division took an advantageous dominant position on the path of the movement of the German mechanized battle group pursuing them. They shot accurately and hit accurately. The pursuit of our retreating troops was temporarily suspended in this sector. However, the whole lost materiel, but they inflicted damage on the Germans and gained time. And my grandfather told the second episode later, but in time it preceded the first. Their division (probably a specialist) was placed in the rearguard of our retreating troops. So --- the division in 2 episodes was deployed for a minute, smashed the advancing Germans and using the enviable distance of fire and the speed of leaving the position / due to the technical capabilities of 52 + they jerked off day and night on the topic of ____ "unfolded --- turned off". And then my grandfather moved from the TT and the rifle to his own. He studied the DShK, received the materiel, they knit together and drove off. Roads, roads ...
  6. 0
    29 October 2021 18: 43
    German Headquarters was going to dismember the Russian front

    Yes, yes, yes, I remember.
    This is after breaking through the defense of the 1st Bashkir and the encirclement of the 2nd Tatar.
  7. +1
    30 October 2021 17: 44
    Heroic Defense of Tula.
    1. +1
      30 October 2021 18: 29
      Heroic Defense of Tula. Part 2.
  8. 0
    8 December 2021 16: 24
    My grandfather these days 80 years ago as part of the 8th company of the 3rd battalion 999 ("Vedensky") rifle regiment
    The 258th division stood at the narrowest point of the Tula-Moscow highway to the north of the city and held the defenses between Kostrovo and Revyakino. By that time, 1200 people remained from the regiment (75 people), and only 277 people from the entire division. In a counteroffensive, he was wounded on December 26 near Kaluga.
    After the hospital, he participated in the Kharkov operation in May 1942, ineptly failed by Malinovsky and Khrushchev ...
    And to argue who was the main character is useless. Zhukov G.K. clearly said that the war was won by the Soviet Soldier.
  9. 0
    16 December 2021 21: 32
    Well - I read it. in principle, everything is clear. I admit that if Guderian had a couple of more armies, then in the end he would have taken Tula .. I admit .. but then the question is - how many Germans would lie down to rest under crossed sticks? I think that there is a lot ... and the question of taking MOSCOW would no longer stand at all. and so they ran around TULA - even though they warmed up .. and then to blame in the cold - as it is undignified!
    1. 0
      29 January 2022 02: 09
      From the stories of the elders, I know that there was no talk of crossed sticks, on the opposite bank of the Upa from my native village, the field was littered with the corpses of both ours and the Germans. It was the winter of 41-42. Almost all the men of Tula, even those who had reservations, went to the front, and few returned, but covered Moscow from the south
  10. 0
    29 January 2022 01: 57
    Tula is my native land. Grandma's house stood about half a kilometer from the front line. As a child (70s) I saw fragments of shells stuck in the wall of the house
  11. 0
    31 July 2022 18: 01
    Hello! Do you have any information about which unit provided security for the railway in November 1941? bridge in the village Urusovo (direction Moscow - Stalingrad)?

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