Luger pistols in the USA and Germany

92

P08 pistol "Sea model" sample 1914, Army Museum, Stockholm

It was a .0,45 caliber Luger with an extended grip ...
... That was a real gangster weapon.
Aimed combat range - two hundred meters,
a device for installing an optical sight,
frame for attached buttstock, translation lever
for automatic shooting and other conveniences ...
“I see,” I said. “I understand that very well.
And that's why I'll sleep here on hard chairs
resting my head on your damn safe
and I will shoot any bastard with silver bullets,
who will try to take the suitcase away from me.
If you see Moses, tell him all this word for word.
Expressions do not need to be softened.
And tell him that in the shooting competition
I took prizes with a 0,45 caliber luger.
Go ahead and leave me alone.
Hotel "At the deceased climber" A. and B. Strugatsky


History firearms. And it so happened that the Board of Ammunition and Fortification of the United States tested Borchardt's pistol in October 1897, found it "very satisfactory" and recommended continuing the test. However, there were no funds for the purchase of pistols, so nothing was done until March 1901, when two 7,65-mm Lugers of the 1900 model of the year, received through DWM agent in the USA, Hans Tauscher, were received for testing.



USA


Tests began with disassembly and assembly (Tauscher performed both operations with impressive speed and even grace), after which the shooting began for accuracy, in which the Luger performed predictably well, even when a complete stranger fired from it.


The same pistol with a full complement of accessories, including a snail store! Photo by Alain Daubresse, website www.littlegun.be

This was followed by reliability tests, during which 1 shots were fired. The pistol gave only 734 misfires, mostly at the very beginning, as the tested Luger had not been lubricated or cleaned since its arrival in the United States.

The corrosion resistance test caused problems: 24 hours in the steam chamber left a thick layer of rust on the outer surface of the pistol, and the mechanism was unable to eject ten rounds. However, after applying the lubricant, 78 shots were fired from it without problems.

The final stage of testing with cartridges with obviously lower charges was also successful and showed the lack of sensitivity of the Luger pistol to the quality of ammunition.

As a result, the Council recommended the purchase of 1 000-mm pistols and 7,65 cartridges for them for large-scale military trials and to allocate $ 200 for this purpose. The holsters were supposed to be produced by the Rock Island Arsenal.

In February-March 1902, pistols were received and sent to various organizations: ten were received by the United States Military Academy and West Point; Presidio, San Francisco (15 pistols); Fort Hamilton, Brooklyn (10 pistols); Fort Riley, Kansas (40 pistols); plus five pistols for each of the 105 cavalry, that is, in total, the American cavalry received 525 pistols, but some sources note that 625 were received.


Magazine "snail" with a lever for the spring and the number of cartridges printed on the lid. Photo by Alain Daubresse, website www.littlegun.be

I liked the Luger, yes, but most of the US Army units chose to keep the larger caliber revolvers.

As a result, all pistols were recalled to the Springfield Arsenal in 1905, and in 1906 they were sold at auction to arms dealer Francis Bannerman, who began selling them at retail.

Then 9mm pistols were delivered to the United States. But the fighting in the Philippines showed that even this caliber cannot always stop a person. As a result, in 1904, the Thompson-Lagarde tests were carried out to determine the optimal caliber of the pistol.


A page from the German manual for P08 with a picture of the device of the "snail" store. Photo by Alain Daubresse, website www.littlegun.be

In a barnyard in Chicago, a wide variety of pistols were fired at cattle and horses. They also shot at suspended human corpses and carefully studied the consequences of the hits.

As a result, it was concluded that the caliber of the pistol must be at least .45 inches.

In March 1907, a new competition was announced. 13 models were presented, of which in the end only three remained: "Savage", "Colt" and "Luger", while a small number of Luger pistols for participation in this competition were released just under the new American cartridge .45 ACP. It is known that 45 of them were produced chambered for .5 caliber. It is interesting that one copy of such a pistol in the crisis year of 2010 was auctioned for $ 522. And in the entire history of the production of Luger pistols, under the .000 ACP cartridge, two (according to some sources, three) pistols were assembled.

All American Lugers carried the United States coat of arms on the upper side of the chamber.


A very rare model M1902 with the US coat of arms on the chamber. Photo by Gunsinternational.com

Although the attempt to sell the Lugers to the American military ended in failure, the same pistols were sold quite successfully on the civilian market.

Major American importers and distributors of these pistols included Abercrombie Fitch and Stoger, the latter even registering the Luger trademark in its own name. It quickly became a popular (second only to Colt pistols) commercial product in the American civilian market, so it was sold and imported into the United States in huge quantities until the mid to late 1930s.

Germany



P08 release in 1943 by H. Krieghoff waffenfabrik - Suhl, Germany. Royal Arsenal, Leeds

As for Germany, the first to adopt the Luger pistol in this country was the navy, which had fewer financial restrictions on the acquisition of new weapons.

The fact is that usually on a German battleship there were about 250 rifles and 100 pistols, and on a light cruiser - 70 rifles and 50 pistols. Even submarines and those had up to 24 pistols, which were in service with the sailors of the prize party and officers.

The army was in no hurry to adopt the Luger pistol, but then changed its mind. The P04 pistol went to the navy, and the P08 went to the army. The order to accept the Luger pistol into service was signed by Kaiser Wilhelm II on August 22, 1908.

The initial order was for 50 pistols from DWM, followed by the deployment of production at the government plant in Erfurt to complete all peacetime shipments, which were valued at approximately 000 pistols!

Note that, having adopted the Luger into service, Germany faced a number of very specific difficulties.

Like many other samples of weapons of the early XNUMXth century, this pistol was not distinguished by manufacturability.

Thus, the Mauser-Werke AG company had to spend 12,5 man-hours to manufacture just one luger. With a sufficiently small mass of the pistol itself, 0,87 kg, in order to make it, it was necessary to process 6,1 kg of metal, and also perform 778 individual operations, 642 operations on machine equipment and 136 - performed manually.

In fact, the manufacture of a luger was the production of ... metal shavings and sawdust, that is, the transfer of valuable raw materials and materials to waste.

Luger pistols in the USA and Germany

Finnish parabellum. Lugerman Photos

In 1939, the cost of a Mauser Luger pistol was 11,5 Reichsmarks, and a store was 3,15 Reichsmarks, and the cost with two stores was 17,8 Reichsmarks.

Moreover, the company sold it to the Wehrmacht much more expensive - for 32 Reichsmarks, while the 98k rifle cost only 70 Reichsmarks, and the MG-34 machine gun (itself very expensive and, as a result, replaced by a more technologically advanced and cheap MG-42) cost the Wehrmacht 300 Reichsmark.


Finnish parabellum. View of the receiver. Lugerman Photos

It is interesting that the naval model and the army model were different from the beginning.

So, the naval model was distinguished by the presence of a two-position sight and a 150 mm barrel, but it did not have a fuse in the handle. In 1914, this model was equipped with a 200 mm barrel, designated Model 1914 or Model 08/14.

A special holster made it possible to use it as an attachment butt. Also, a specially designed snail drum magazine with a capacity of 32 rounds was released and produced for it. However, these magazines were later abandoned due to their too large size and weight, as well as their tendency to delay when firing.

Pistols with such magazines were also used in the army. They were used to arm assault units, which were actively used at the very end of the war.


Swedish volunteers of the Finnish army with parabellums, and the one on the left is armed with a PPD-34 submachine gun

The main manufacturer of lugers for Germany was DWM.

However, a number of other companies were also involved in their production to meet the needs that arose during the war. Here is a short list of these businesses, the names of which were usually stamped on the flat top surface of the locking levers:

- DWM (Deutsche Waffen und Munitionfabrik) - Karlsruhe, Germany,
- Erfert Arsenal - Erfert, Germany,
- Spandau - Spandau, Germany,
- Simpson & Co - Suhl, Germany,
- Mauser - Oberndorf, Germany,
- Krieghoff (H. Krieghoff waffenfabrik) - Suhl, Germany.

In addition, several foreign companies were licensed to manufacture lugers:

- Vickers (Vickers - Armstrong Limited) - Great Britain,
- Waffenfabrik Bern - Switzerland.

After the First World War, the Lugers remained in service with the German army and in this role continued to be produced until 1942, when they were replaced in production by the P.38 pistols from Walter.

After the defeat in the First World War, under the terms of the Treaty of Versailles, a number of restrictions were imposed on Germany in the military sphere. In particular, pistols could have a barrel length of more than 100 mm and a caliber of no more than 8 mm.


At the beginning of the twentieth century, on the basis of the Luger pistol, several carbines were fired, and one Luger even presented to H. Maxim! Photo by Simpson Ltd.


It was on such a pistol that it was possible to put an optical sight!

So it was no longer possible to produce lugers in their previous form.

But already in 1920, the Zimson arms company in the city of Suhl began producing Luger pistols for the needs of the police and Reichswehr officers in small batches.

In 1925, the company "Henrich Krieghoff" joined in their production. At the same time, the specialists of the Mauser company were able to resume the manufacture of lugers in Switzerland and their assembly was organized in Finland.

"Luger" or "Parabellum" even in these difficult conditions did not give up their positions, which best of all speaks about its quality ...

To be continued ...
92 comments
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  1. +6
    2 November 2021 18: 08
    Swedish volunteers of the Finnish army with parabellums, and the one on the left is armed with a PPD-34 submachine gun
    PPD-34 saw.Finnish Lieutenant Esa Seeste (right) and voluntary American-Finnish Second Lieutenant with PPD-34 (Pistolet-pulemjot Degtjarjova) in Koivisto 30.9.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX. Where there is no parabellum. In holsters? "It is necessary more carefully, guys" Mikhail Zhvanetsky. Thank you for the article!
    1. +16
      2 November 2021 18: 12
      The right one is so in the belt! It can be seen well!
      1. +14
        2 November 2021 18: 27
        You can talk about interesting weapons for a long time and interesting ...
        Thank you Vyacheslav Olegovich! We are waiting for the continuation.
        1. +10
          2 November 2021 19: 51
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          We are waiting for the continuation.

          And it will be very interesting. However, you will see for yourself.
      2. +16
        2 November 2021 18: 38
        The right one is so in the belt! It can be seen well!
        Ah! Yes! Sorry, please, absolutely not to hell with vision - only with a magnifying glass I saw it! "Oh, woe to me, boyar!" PPD "focused all their attention on themselves with their beauty and volume ...
        1. +3
          3 November 2021 01: 09
          Ah! Yes! Sorry, please, absolutely not to hell with vision - only with a screen magnifier I saw it! "
          You can use PSO-1 instead of a magnifying glass! wink
      3. +2
        3 November 2021 06: 13
        the left one, too, but it's bad to see.
    2. +9
      2 November 2021 18: 17
      The right one has a belt, and the left one is clearly not "parabellum".
      1. +6
        2 November 2021 19: 11
        This is not the case
        1. +6
          2 November 2021 19: 22
          No, something longer ...
          And the handle is different.
        2. +7
          2 November 2021 19: 32
          IMHO but not sure:
          Browning Model 1907
          This Swedish version of the 1903 Browning pistol was manufactured by Husqvarna Vapenfabriks AB under license. The breech is free, the barrel is quite long, which contributed to the accuracy of shooting. The fuse latch was located on the left side of the body above the handle. The 1907 model was produced in large numbers and was in service with various branches of the Swedish Armed Forces.
          https://sitekid.ru/izobreteniya_i_tehnika/ognestrelnoe_oruzhie/pistolety_i_revolvery_shvecii.html
        3. +2
          2 November 2021 19: 32
          How could not "Colt 1911" ...?
          1. +5
            2 November 2021 19: 38
            No, the handle is different, the screws for fastening the cheeks are different. Swedish Browning 1907 (1903), IMHO. The photo is enlarged a little, very similar.
            hi
          2. +6
            2 November 2021 19: 44
            IMHO, Swedish Browning 1907 (1903). Not just similar. laughing
            Attachment of the "cord" to the left side of the bottom of the handle is characteristic.
            1. +9
              2 November 2021 20: 20
              Let me argue with you - this is not a characteristic feature of the weapons of certain European firms ... The same can be said about many others ...
              1. +4
                2 November 2021 20: 42
                IMHO, here is a set of characteristic features of Browning 1903 (Swedish 1907): size, visible shape of the handle, visible shape of the frame in the muzzle, visible (probably) screw for fastening the cheek and automatic safety catch, characteristic method of fastening roar. cord. Plus additional points: the outfit of the Swedish volunteer of that time and in that place does not contradict, and I would add the Swedish pistol "corresponds".
                Although it may be a homemade single-shot "ignition" samopal based on a broken pistol, we didn’t carry out an examination, did we?
                But from the point of view "beyond reasonable doubt" it is Browning 1903 (Swedish 1907 or another copy of it).
                However, this is an interesting question, I am ready to consider your options. What do you think it is?
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. +5
                  2 November 2021 21: 07
                  IMHO (English In My Humble Opinion - "in my humble opinion")
                  1. +5
                    2 November 2021 21: 13
                    Hmm, well, this is definitely not an option - even the ratio of the length of the handle to the casing is different.
                    If this photo is saved and zoomed in, then you can see the characteristic screw on the handle and the automatic fuse partially closed (by the machine gun magazine).
                    1. +7
                      2 November 2021 21: 22
                      The screw on the handle, yes, plunges me into confusion ... But where is the characteristic thickening, as in the photograph?
                      1. +5
                        2 November 2021 21: 23
                        Where is the thickening?
                      2. +8
                        2 November 2021 21: 29
                        But where is the characteristic thickening, as in the picture
                        There is no it! And in the picture of the author there is! Like Mauser!
                      3. +6
                        3 November 2021 01: 32
                        There is no it! And in the picture of the author there is! Like Mauser!
                        good good good O! 9 mm pistol m / 07 with the old Husqvarna logo!
                        But there (in the picture) there is still no thickening, there is just a shadow (behind the front of the pistol), in the bend of the uniform, gives such an erroneous idea (with inattentive examination)!
                      4. +6
                        3 November 2021 02: 00
                        With all due respect, in that picture, clearly, without options, the Browning M1903, which was in service with the Swedes under the name 9 mm pistol m / 07!
                      5. +11
                        3 November 2021 07: 02
                        Yes, you and the Cat Marine are right - thank you! I admit my guilt, measure, degree, depth! In a dispute, truth is born!
                3. +4
                  2 November 2021 22: 23
                  Yes, you have noticed everything correctly. smile
                  1. +4
                    3 November 2021 00: 45
                    Thank you!
                    There were not very many options, and the position of the screw on the cheek is characteristic.
          3. +9
            2 November 2021 22: 21
            Hello Anton! smile
            This is FN Browning M 1903 (Browning Long 07).

            So Wildcat "IMHO, here is a set of characteristic features of Browning 1903 (Swedish 1907)", in general, is right.
            I zoomed in and out - everything is clearly visible.

            And look at the size, where is the Mauser, which Crowe posted. smile
            By the way, remember, in Bogomolov's "Moment of Truth" German agents were armed with exactly these Browning Long 07s because of their similarity to TT.
            1. +5
              2 November 2021 22: 29
              Thank you, Uncle Kostya! You and all the connoisseurs of firearms! You know that I am a lover of "cold stuff", and that is not "hardware", but people who used it.
              1. +4
                2 November 2021 23: 44
                For fun, look at the article "In the United States, they announced data on the object that the nuclear submarine USS Connecticut collided with in the South China Sea," I was there about the North Korean award pistols.
            2. +4
              3 November 2021 00: 54
              "Skillfully holding on about two meters away for the assistant commandant, the ambal immediately bent down to the skinhead, and right there in his left hand I saw not a Finn, but a naked barrel and immediately realized that he was left-handed, and saw that the pistol was not" TT "and the Browning Long 07, nine millimeters in caliber, is exactly the kind of machine that German agents are usually charged with explosive bullets with a poison that causes immediate death."
              1. +2
                3 November 2021 16: 34
                Incidentally, I didn't like the film at all. The director turned out to be no, the operator was generally a complete mediocrity, he just filmed what he saw. Although many actors with their play tried to draw out the picture, for example, Alexander Baluev, who said more with his own eyes than the director could show.

                Yes, and Bogomolov himself forbade mentioning his last name in the film's credits, this also says a lot.
                1. +1
                  3 November 2021 17: 03
                  Bogomolov was very indignant at the film, he did not like the scene of the interrogation of the driver, and much more.
                  And the film itself is a little cut in comparison with the book.
                  But, IMHO, this is "8 out of 10" and better than nothing.
                  1. 0
                    3 November 2021 17: 19
                    Yes, the scene of the interrogation of the driver is a real cheap from the same cheap TV series. And running around with a pistol in hand through the woods, no matter how strong the brush is, and TT, it weighs under a kilogram, what kind of accuracy can we talk about. Yes, there is a lot of all sorts of heaps, it would be better not taken at all.
                    It is a pity that Zhalakeyavichus's version was hacked to death, he is a talented director, one film "Nobody Wanted to Die" is worth it!
                    1. +1
                      3 November 2021 18: 24
                      I remember the movie: "Nobody Wanted to Die". And in my opinion, everything is plausible. In the battle scene
                      1. 0
                        3 November 2021 18: 25
                        ... In the battle scene

                        And the rest too.
                      2. +1
                        4 November 2021 09: 03
                        Yes the movie was good
    3. +5
      2 November 2021 18: 21
      The one on the right.
    4. +5
      2 November 2021 18: 23
      The one on the left (with the PPD), definitely not Luger, has another pistol.
      Pistols behind belts, without holsters, in the area of ​​belt buckles, with attached roars. cords for the neck.
      1. +13
        2 November 2021 18: 30
        The issue with the name of the pistol should be considered separately. All this can be briefly summarized as: Not every "Parabellum" - "Luger", but not every "Luger" - "Parabellum"! The full name of the pistol is usually written as "P08, Parabellum, Borchardt-Luger".
    5. +3
      2 November 2021 19: 38
      And this is definitely Degtyarev, not Rheinmetall? Is the store too wide, looks like a 9mm Luger?
      And the second "volunteer" from the country of the zhovto-blakit flag (Sweden, do not think what) in his hands, it seems, is the same PP, only with a disk magazine.
  2. +4
    2 November 2021 18: 11
    Thanks for the interesting article about such an interesting weapon as the Luger pistol. I would like to continue about "Parabellum" in the Russian Empire and the USSR good
    1. +8
      2 November 2021 18: 31
      Quote: Saigaved
      I would like to continue about "Parabellum" in the Russian Empire and the USSR

      I can't promise 100%, but I'll see what I can do ...
    2. +5
      2 November 2021 18: 43
      Quote: Saigaved
      about "Parabellum" in the Russian Empire and the USSR

      Well, in RI "Parabellums" were ordered in 1906 ....; and in the USSR, in the 20s ... it seems!
      1. +3
        2 November 2021 19: 40
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        Well, in RI "Parabellums" were ordered in 1906 ....;

        Russian Luger mod. 1900 (7.65) with a barrel length of 120mm appeared in Ingushetia in 1902.
        1. +5
          2 November 2021 20: 10
          Quote: Ashes of Klaas
          Russian Luger mod. 1900 (7.65) with a barrel length of 120mm appeared in Ingushetia in 1902

          Yes ... in 1902 Georg Luger offered his pistol to the Russian government, but the tests carried out in Russia at that time were considered unsuccessful! Luger was rejected!
          At the end of 1905, a Russian representative, Colonel Sakharov, visited DWM and presented the government's requirements for a new pistol, which was planned to be adopted by army and navy officers. Prior to that, Sakharov got acquainted with the pistols of Mauser, Browning and Sauer, but remained dissatisfied. Of the samples brought to Russia the following year, the military most liked the 'new sample' pistol of 9mm caliber with a barrel length of 100mm. DWM's hopes for the implementation of the 'Marine Model' in Russia did not materialize. The 'new sample' was recommended to Russian officers for purchase at their own expense. In total, 1000 pistols were ordered, which were bought little by little, but until 1914 were not fully redeemed. Thus, Russia became the first foreign country to officially adopt the 9-mm model into service with the officer corps. But the cost of the 9-mm pistol was quite significant, and most importantly, the imported cartridges were expensive, and some officers bought a commercial 7,65-mm model instead, and after 1910 the Browning pistol began to be more popular. '

          In Russia in 1906 - 1907. tested modified for firing in automatic mode 9 mm Parabellum model 1906, delivered in accordance with the Russian order or acquired by officers privately. According to the test results, which showed an extremely low accuracy of fire, automatic pistols were found unsuitable for combat use and further work was stopped.
      2. +6
        2 November 2021 19: 53
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        Well, in RI "Parabellums" were ordered in 1906 ....; and in the USSR, in the 20s ... it seems!

        Will be, hurry up to her ... Now I’m just reading about this a lot of everything, already dazzling in my eyes.
  3. +12
    2 November 2021 18: 35
    It was on such a pistol that it was possible to put an optical sight!
    Here one cannot fail to mention an amusing literary incident associated with "Luger":
    “It was a 0.45 Luger with an extended grip. He was lying in a puddle of water, and lumps of non-melting snow were still clinging to him; and as I watched, mouth gaping, one lump fell off the trigger and fell onto the surface of the table. Then I looked around the hall. The hall was empty, only Lel was standing next to the table and, tilting his head to one side, looked seriously questioningly at me. From the kitchen came the usual kitchen sounds, the owner could hear the soft bass and the smell of coffee.

    - Did you bring this? - I asked Lelya in a whisper.

    He tilted his head to the other side and kept looking at me.

    His paws were in the snow, dripping from his shaggy belly. I gingerly took the pistol. That was a real gangster weapon. Sighting range - two hundred meters, a device for mounting an optical sight, a lever for automatic firing and other amenities ... "

    “He hung up a Mauser, then a Luger with a telescopic sight (from this Luger Kopchik shot two policemen to death on the last day of the Turn) and fiddled with a Browning Model NXNUMX - small, almost square,” when a familiar voice behind him said:

    - To the right, Andrey, a little to the right. And one centimeter lower. "
    The first quote is taken from the story "The Hotel" At the Deceased Mountaineer ", and the second from the novel" The Doomed City "by brothers Arkady and Boris Strugatsky. The controversy over these pistols began even before the publication of the first book. Gladkov, of course, immediately began to prove that "Lugers" with a telescopic sight do not exist in nature. Further, the legend diverges - according to some sources, Arkady promised to replace the said pistol, according to others - he said: "This is my" Luger “I do what I want.” Judging by the appearance of optics in the second work, the second version is closer to the truth.
    1. +4
      2 November 2021 19: 49
      Judging by the length of the barrel, this is a sniper weapon.
      So, a telescopic sight is quite appropriate. Only the trunk is somewhat thin. Although, for the sake of bullet speed ... On the other hand, vibrations of thin-walled metal, knots ...
      1. +11
        2 November 2021 20: 25
        Apparently, this is not a sniper's weapon. A sniper, I dare to assume, will use a more acceptable weapon for his work, certainly not a half-pistol-half-weapon ...
        1. +7
          2 November 2021 20: 50
          I think it's a lure for the hunter-traveler. I mean, I was walking on the prairie, I saw a deer in the distance, I put the Luger in a heap and shot myself dinner)))
        2. +4
          2 November 2021 21: 40
          A sniper in those days would have used a mosink wassat )))
      2. +4
        2 November 2021 21: 43
        Good evening, Luda. love
        This is a hunting weapon. smile
        1. +6
          2 November 2021 22: 31
          Good evening, Kostya! )))
          Greetings to all present! )))
          Accidentally wandered, mortally tired of homework, and now - word for word ...
          Honestly, I don't like hunting. No, I, of course, understand, atavism of customs, cravings and all that. But the killing of a free animal, an inhabitant of the forest, for me is tantamount to an attack by an armed bandit on a peaceful person returning home from work in the dark.
          Better tell me, how are you doing with the fog?
          I have - according to Stephen King laughing )))
          1. +5
            2 November 2021 23: 32
            How are you doing with the fog?


            So after all, half a year ago I stopped drinking, so the fog is only in the morning on our pond. smile
            As for hunting, I'm not a fan, although I like to shoot. But to slap a wolf that cuts a pregnant deer, I consider it a noble deed. And in general, not everything is so simple with this question. smile
            1. +5
              2 November 2021 23: 44
              And in general, not everything is so simple with this question.

              And with what question is it easy? )))
              For whatever it takes, the complexity of the solution creeps out. For everything, somehow, suddenly and immediately, there is an insurmountable obstacle.
              Why am I talking about fog?
              Fell last night, and in the morning it looked like everything was sprinkled with flour. And hung in the air. And silence. And it became somehow scary. And before that, yesterday afternoon, there were glowing traces from the reverse in the sky, dense, bright ...

              Fog, fog, gray shroud.
              Far, far beyond the fogs, war.
              And battles are raging without us, but we are not to blame.
              We're chained to the ground in fog
              Air Workers Wars

              Fog, fog, in the past, in the past.
              Far, far beyond the fogs is our home.
              And in the front-line dugout, we dream about childhood.
              Apparently, we all grew up early,
              Air workers wars.
              1. +6
                2 November 2021 23: 50
                "Chronicle of a Dive" - ​​my older brother, who himself flew off half-war on "Pawn", considered this film the best film about pilots during the war. I completely agree with him here.
                1. +4
                  3 November 2021 00: 15
                  "Chronicle of a dive"

                  "Chronicle of a dive bomber" ...
                  Paradoxically, this is a film about those times that were better than the present. Although then she did not live. I was not there then.
                  Now such times have come in comparison with those that I look at my body as if it were worn-out clothes - and it’s a pity to throw it away, and it’s a shame to wear it. But for those guys everything was not so, they did not think about this, they spent their organisms without looking back, and that was happiness.
                  Oh, it's already midnight ... love hi )))
                  1. +4
                    3 November 2021 00: 18
                    Good night dear friend. love smile

                2. +4
                  3 November 2021 07: 38
                  I agree: the film is good.
                  I believe that the best films about the war were shot: participants or those who saw the war
              2. +1
                8 November 2021 20: 58
                Quote: depressant
                Why am I talking about fog?
                Fell last night, and in the morning it looked like everything was sprinkled with flour. And hung in the air. And silence. And it became somehow scary. And before that, yesterday afternoon, there were glowing traces from the reverse in the sky, dense, bright ...

                belay Chemtrails ?! recourse request No.
                1. 0
                  8 November 2021 21: 39
                  Chemtrails

                  Dear colleague, I have already ceased to be surprised at anything. It got to the point that I asked about the map, whether or not the Moscow region would flood. Some authors write, they say, it will flood, and how! Others show a map according to which it will not flood.
                  So trust the scientists after that wassat )))
                  1. +1
                    8 November 2021 21: 43
                    Quote: depressant
                    It got to the point that I asked about the map, whether or not the Moscow region would flood. Some authors write, they say, it will flood, and how! Others show a map according to which it will not flood.

                    Move to Siberia, somewhere to Minusinsk, because everyone - from Vanga to Edgar Cayce, promised one hundred percent that everything would be covered with a copper basin, outside Siberia laughing
      3. +2
        3 November 2021 09: 35
        Quote: depressant
        Judging by the length of the barrel, this is a sniper weapon.

        Judging by the side mount that interferes with the thumb, this is a pontorez weapon
    2. +5
      2 November 2021 20: 02
      Quote: Crowe
      Judging by the appearance of optics in the second work, the second version is closer to the truth.

      And you might also think that OSNAZovets Arkady Strugatsky. which was worn from the besieged Leningrad to the Far East - he could not beat any weapon ...
  4. +7
    2 November 2021 18: 43
    All my life I was breaking my head, how the Luger could have a telescopic sight ... Hmmm. Now I'll think about the rest of it - how he was filming laughing
    1. +13
      2 November 2021 18: 55
      On a system with a movable barrel and levers that extend upward, it is possible to attach the optics only to the frame. In addition, the trajectory of the 9 × 19 cartridge, and even more so .45ACP, at a distance of more than 100 meters, even for the P08 models with an elongated barrel, will, to put it mildly, be far from straightforward. The weapon will have to be fired at a specific distance and then hope that the shooter, firstly, will be able to correctly determine the distance to the target, and secondly, that the field of view of the optics is sufficient for the correction. Not surprisingly, scopes have not taken root even on much more powerful submachine guns. So, fiction remains fiction.
    2. +6
      2 November 2021 19: 41
      Just about, if you do not know how to relieve stress, in no case do not wear it.
  5. +10
    2 November 2021 18: 56
    Finnish parabellum.

    I do not know, we can already laid out the Finnish Luger with PBS ... I apologize if I repeat someone else's.


    1. +12
      2 November 2021 18: 58
      finnish luger
      With your permission
      1. +13
        2 November 2021 19: 29
        Quote: Crowe
        With your permission

        and from your:
        "Serbian"

        "French"

        "Persian"

        By the way, the Persians called this model according to Islamic chronology - Model 1314 (the year of signing a contract with Mauser)
        Well, and "Siamese":

        and "Turkish":
        1. +5
          2 November 2021 19: 56
          Ah, yes, well done - I dug out so much!
        2. +9
          2 November 2021 20: 12
          and from your:
          "Serbian" "French" "Persian" "Siamese" and "Turkish"
          "Give up mister Jones Crowe is your bit card "I give up and thank you for the interesting addition!
        3. +3
          2 November 2021 21: 28
          And there was no "Luger" by Leonid Ilyich?
          Made in 1972 by Mauser in caliber 7,65.
        4. +3
          2 November 2021 21: 30
          And where is the Soviet ???
          They not only bought, but also tried to make them themselves (300 pieces).
  6. +3
    2 November 2021 19: 08
    Thanks, read with interest.
  7. +10
    2 November 2021 19: 12
    At the beginning of the twentieth century, on the basis of the Luger pistol, several carbines were fired, and one Luger even presented to H. Maxim!

    I think, Vyacheslav Olegovich, it looks somehow with a forearm ..on the steps))
    Maxim, by the way, was presented with just such a gift)
  8. +6
    2 November 2021 19: 20
    Thanks to both the author and the commentators! Very interesting good
  9. +7
    2 November 2021 19: 29
    It is known that 45 of them were produced chambered for .5 caliber.

    And right there right away
    And in the entire history of the production of Luger pistols, under the .45 ACP cartridge, two (according to some sources, three) pistols were assembled.

    Or about five too many, or you need more information.
    1. +5
      2 November 2021 19: 57
      Quote: Undecim
      Or about five too many, or you need more information.

      Will. Looking for now ...
  10. +7
    2 November 2021 19: 48
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich.
    I am happy as a child))
    1. +5
      2 November 2021 20: 09
      Careful, this story ended badly on the show! request
    2. +7
      2 November 2021 20: 30
      Take this one better ... it will be calmer!
      1. +7
        2 November 2021 22: 03
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        Take this one better ... it will be calmer!

  11. +12
    2 November 2021 20: 03
    Major American importers and distributors of these pistols included Abercrombie Fitch and Stoger, the latter even registering the Luger trademark in its own name. It quickly became a popular (second only to Colt pistols) commercial product in the American civilian market, so it was sold and imported into the United States in huge quantities until the mid to late 1930s.

    About "huge quantities" - this is someone's overkill. This can be easily verified in two ways. The first is to open American weapons sites and see how much the "American Eagle" costs (this is what the "Lugers" that entered the American commercial market were called because of the eagle in the chamber).
    The second is even easier. We open this book.

    This is a classic catalog especially for Luger collectors. In it "all moves are counted", that is, all "American Eagle" are taken into account.
    1900 AMERICAN EAGLE COMMERCIAL - from 6000 to 8000.
    1902 AMERICAN EAGLE - 600-700.
    1906 AMERICAN EAGLE - 3000 in 9mm and 8000 in 7,65mm.
    1906 AMERICAN EAGLE SAFETY MARKED - 10
    1923 STOEGER AMERICAN EAGLE - 1000.
    1923 STOEGER SAFE & LOADED - 1000.
    MAUSER STOEGER ("Lugers" produced by "Mauser") - 500.
    Total for the maximum - 32 for the entire time. There are more optimistic estimates, but none exceeds 000. Therefore, the starting price of "American Eagle" in good condition reaches $ 40.
  12. +4
    2 November 2021 20: 57
    At least one article by Shpakovsky does not end with the phrase "To be continued ..."? And how many sequels were there really? Here, you rogue (this is a compliment, if that).
  13. +6
    2 November 2021 22: 51
    ... These pistols are still in service today. The photo shows a control shot of the "Marine version"
  14. +1
    3 November 2021 07: 46
    Comrades, yesterday there was no Armament and I was "screwed". I am reading now
  15. -1
    3 November 2021 18: 01
    “As a result, the Thompson-Lagarde tests were carried out in 1904 to determine the optimal caliber of a pistol. In a barnyard in Chicago, a wide variety of pistols were fired at cattle and horses. They also shot at suspended human corpses and carefully studied the consequences of hits.
    As a result, it was concluded that the caliber of the pistol should be at least .45 inches. "
    Link to the most complete report (Lugers, by the way, did not work very well yet ...):
    https://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/TLGR/tlgr.html
    “The aforementioned experiments on corpses and the resulting skeletal evidence show that the effectiveness of pistol or revolver class weapons increases with caliber, not speed. ....
    As already mentioned, lethal force and impact effects increased with increasing cross-sectional area of ​​the bullets used. "
  16. +1
    4 November 2021 22: 10
    The most beautiful of the pistols!
  17. +1
    6 November 2021 23: 43
    "Swedish volunteers of the Finnish army with parabellums, and the one on the left is armed with a PPD-34 submachine gun"
    1. The Finnish army was armed with its own pistol "Lahti" L-35, a constructively original design, but outwardly ... almost a copy of Parabellum.
    2. in the photo there are two Finnish PP "Suomi", the difference in stores - carob and disk, by the way, it was the appearance of "Suomi" among the Finns that was the reason for the development of PPD.
    Well, the caliber - the Finns have an army standard of 9x19, everything else: either from the "past" times, or a personal one.
  18. 0
    6 November 2021 23: 53
    Quote: Undecim
    It is known that 45 of them were produced chambered for .5 caliber.

    And right there right away
    And in the entire history of the production of Luger pistols, under the .45 ACP cartridge, two (according to some sources, three) pistols were assembled.

    Or about five too many, or you need more information.

    Two parabellums in .45ACP caliber were made specifically for competitive tests, one was "killed" during trials in the trash, the second does not get out of the hands of American collectors, the price is now seven-figure in "evergreen rubles"
  19. +1
    7 November 2021 00: 02
    Currently produced by some small Italian company - smile attention !, as a double weapon for a hunting carbine, I don't remember the name, but I saw such a set at an exhibition about five years ago ... the quality of iztovleniya and refinement there, of course, "UH !!!", but also the price "OX ..."