Shown the first application of the Turkish UAV Bayraktar-TB2 APU in Donbass

Confirmed information about the first use of reconnaissance and strike drone Bayraktar-TB2 in Donbass. This use was carried out by the armed forces of Ukraine, which was eventually reported by representatives of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

A Turkish-made drone, which is part of one of the batches of this kind of weapons supplied by Ankara to Ukraine, was used in the Donetsk region. It is alleged that this was allegedly a response to the shelling of the positions of the 93rd separate mechanized brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the area of ​​the settlement of Granitnoye.

Ukrainian statements claim that a guided bomb was dropped from the Bayraktar drone, which "destroyed the Russian howitzer." The frames are presented below.

The press service of the military department of Ukraine states that the Bayraktar-TB2 UAV of the Armed Forces of Ukraine did not cross the line of contact. This supposedly should serve as a justification for the use of shock drone, as well as “confirmation” that “the Minsk agreements were not violated.” According to this “logic” of the Ukrainian side, we can also say that the howitzer of the DPR NM also did not cross the demarcation line, which means that “no violations of the Minsk agreements were committed”... If the words of the Ukrainian General Staff about the shooting from artillery According to Ukrainian positions, this generally corresponds to reality.

With the use of a drone, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are actually bringing the armed conflict in Donbas to a new level of confrontation. For the People's Militia of the Donbass Republics, Kiev is clearly sending a signal that it is ready to use any available forces and means to escalate the conflict. In turn, this is able to "untie the hands" of the power units of the LPNR for the full protection of their territories and citizens.

The application of the APU of the Turkish UAV Bayraktar-TB2 is shown. The video is also actively distributed by Turkish TV channels:

At the same time, judging by the footage, the destruction of the howitzer, as well as individual members of the crew, did not happen.

Comments

[Roman 57 rus]

Nepopal like.

[Tatyana]

In early April, the leading manufacturer of Turkish drones, Bayraktar, said that Ukraine had already purchased their complexes. Wherein Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu assured that the deal is not directed against Russia.
And who is this deal directed against, if? there are citizens of the Russian Federation in the DLNR?

This is WAR !!!
Then What kind of gas supply to Ukraine and through Ukraine to the EU from Russia can we talk about?

Why the hell is Russia building a nuclear power plant in Turkey?, especially with Russian money? That Turkey's economy grew stronger and Turkish military-industrial complex that kills Russians?

For example, the United States, when Americans leave the country in which they built something, they have built everything - factories, enterprises, etc. - EXPLODE under the guise of a man-made accident and nothing is left behind from what they built in those countries!

Russia is too kind! This is perceived by the West only as its weakness and only provokes the aggressor.

[Egoza]

Quote: Tatiana

What kind of gas supply to Ukraine and through Ukraine to the EU from Russia can we talk about?

Contract! Up to 24 years old !!! This is sacred. And the citizens of the LDNR can wait. But what about "we don't abandon our own"? Will we also wait until the critical mass is reached?

[Elephant]

Quote: Egoza

Contract! Up to 24 years old !!! This is sacred.

At the same time, we close our eyes to the fact that they are sticking out a loan of 3 billion dollars to Russia. +%

[Grits]

Quote: Egoza

But what about "we do not abandon our own"?

They were abandoned back in 2014

[suhorukofal]

Quote: Tatiana

So that the economy and the Turkish military-industrial complex, which is killing Russians, grow stronger in Turkey?

With Ukraine, isn’t the situation very different. Trade is also conducted, Russia is still one of the largest trading partners of Ukraine, including fuel for equipment. The difference is that the ukropatriots and other sick people shout loudly that they are at war with Russia.

[Kapral Alphych]

The difference is that the ukropatriots and other sick people scream loudly that they are at war with Russia.

And if they hadn't shouted, then our "rulers" would have thrown tanks with cannons to them for a war with us ... Business, business and nothing personal. All borders should be open to capitals - this is the main thesis of our financial bloc. And if we consider that whoever has the money has the power, then the rest of the large-scale figures and personalities are only talking scares for the people.

[Cat Kuzya]

Russia is not kind. It's just that the top in Russia lives for the sake of dough, for the sake of stuffing their pockets, which they call "funds." For Russia, it is only interesting what makes a profit and allows you to export this profit to Western banks for a type of preservation (otherwise you never know what can happen in Russia). They (the Kremlinites) need the armed forces to protect these pockets from other external predators, and the National Guard - from the "glasses". Is Novorossiya profitable? No? So it is not needed

[ultra]

So the top does not link their fate and their offspring with Russia.

[Gunther]

The cat Kuzya beguiled Russia with the comprador camarilla in the Kremlin.

[Civil]

This is WAR !!!

Formally, no, Russia did not recognize the LPNR and did not sign agreements on a military alliance. Yes, and shelling almost every day. Another issue is that Ukraine used a new level of weaponry and the Liberal Democratic Party was not ready for its use. Now the Armed Forces have tactical superiority.

Why the hell is Russia building a nuclear power plant in Turkey, especially with Russian money? So that the economy and the Turkish military-industrial complex, which is killing Russians, grow stronger in Turkey?

This is business, nothing personal. As well as the mass "optimization" of hospitals in small towns of Russia.

Russia is too kind! This is perceived by the West only as its weakness and only provokes the aggressor.

It's just that our grandfathers and grandmothers at the helm are very kind and do not wish anyone any harm, they want to live in retirement without war. Now this is the problem of their grandchildren.

[Lech from Android.]

It was said about these Bayraktars many months ago ... that the Armed Forces of Ukraine would use them against the militias ... and so it happened.
Now the LDNR fighters need to look for an antidote against Turkish weapons.

[Leeds]

Everyone crowed that it was not Armenia without air defense and electronic warfare equipment ...

[Spambox]

I double, the noise was that the Bayraktars would drown out the electronic warfare and would not reach at all

[Vlad1]

Here they are .. They said the Armenians had no slaves, that they were crooked .. Now, like polite people, they beat off the LDNR from the bairaktars .. How straight are the hands

[Vladimir61]

Quote: Leeds

Everyone crowed that it was not Armenia without air defense and electronic warfare equipment ...

And specifically, who was "crowing"? Who specifically - Putin, Shoigu, Gerasimov, Pushilin, Pasechnik or representatives of the command of the NM DLNR? It seems that your information comes from the same lovers of gossiping!

[syndicalist]

Maybe Putin and Pushilin, but no one knows their nicknames on VO. And so Leeds is right - here absolutely everyone crowed about it /

[Vladimir61]

Quote: syndicalist

And so Leeds is right - here absolutely everyone crowed about it /

Well, yes, something crowing, except for you and those who supported the above comments, are more invisible. But you, even taken together, are not a shadow organ of the General Staff of the Russian Federation and the command of the NM DLNR corps! They were not stupid, they wrote here, that for the DLNR, the supply of UAVs to Ukraine is a real threat, which can be corrected by supplying appropriate air defense systems or by declaring the area a no-fly zone.

[Vadim237]

In return, Russia issues passports to the population of the LPR and DPR - they have issued 700000. When they issue them to everyone, then we can talk about recognizing the LPR and even annexing them, and then the Ukrainian Armed Forces will wash their hands, since any attack on Russian territory will be stopped.

[2 Level Advisor]

and if part of it does not want to receive citizenship of the Russian Federation? say 20 percent .. let the rest of the citizens of the Russian Federation-suffer?

[Bat]

Quote: Tatiana

Why the hell is Russia building a nuclear power plant in Turkey, especially with Russian money? So that the economy and the Turkish military-industrial complex, which is killing Russians, grow stronger in Turkey?

In the first DNR for the whole world it is Ukraine and they impose constitutional law there, as Russia did twice in Chechnya, as in Azerbaijan in Armenia, as in Georgia in Abkhazia and in Ossetia.
Secondly, let's be honest, Russia supplied weapons against Turkey's brotherly Azerbaijan for the Armenians, thanks to which the Azerbaijani people perished, being RIGHT! Is not it?
In the third, the Russian side supports Assad, who, in turn, is destroying the Turkish people, the Turkoman people, who are fraternal. Have you thought about that? Yours said nothing personal, just business. Same.

Quote: Tatiana

Russia is too kind!

Calculating. What kindness?)

[DmSol]

Let's be honest and admit that it all started when someone decided that Russians could be killed with impunity.

[Bat]

Quote: DmSol

Let's be honest and admit that it all started when someone decided that Russians could be killed with impunity.

Nobody has the right to kill people. It doesn't matter who is Russian or who. And if you are hinting at Azerbaijan, then please take a look. I didn't shoot. Filmed by a Russian blogger. There are facts and interviews, points are everywhere. There will be questions, I will be glad to answer.

[DmSol]

I'm hinting at Ukraine

[Bat]

Quote: DmSol

I'm hinting at Ukraine

Whoever kills civilians must answer in full! Whoever it was! I repeat the civilian population. Women, children, old people, ordinary people (without automatic weapons in their hands) and I are against any nationalism in any form.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Yarasa

Whoever kills civilians must answer in full! Whoever it was!

I decipher who these "were" - Turchinov, Yatsenyuk, Poroshenko, Yarosh, Beletskty (and all this code on the list), the entire senior command staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, current and past since 2014 ... The list is huge ...

[ViacheslavS]

An excellent video, especially how Azerbaijanis blame the Armenians themselves for the Armenian pogroms, still lacks the courage to admit their mistakes.

[Bat]

We have as much courage as you want. Only hypocrisy and 2 standards you have as I see more than enough. Sumgait say, approx. Our court sent 4 Azerbaijanis to be shot and the instigator Eduard Grigoryan lives near Moscow. This is one side of the coin. Why don't you have enough conscience and don't say what the Armenians in Armenia did with the Azerbaijanis to Sumgait? Why keep quiet about this? There is not enough courage or conscience.

[ViacheslavS]

I have already asked this question, but you somehow quickly fall silent, how the atrocities of the Armenians justify the pogroms in Sumgait? Well, you are not like the Armenians, you are brave, reasonable, why not admit your mistake, apologize, well, the Azerbaijanis raped and killed women and children in Sumgait.

And as for the Armenians, I do not feel any special sympathy, they are no less libertarian.

[Albay]

Viacheslav S
No one is silent, you just misunderstood the answer that Yarasa gave you. The pogroms in Sumgait were organized by the Armenians and this was proved by the investigation carried out by the USSR prosecutor's office. One of the active participants in the pogrom and the leader of a group of murderers was Eduard Grigoryan and his brother. He personally killed three Armenians and the raped sisters of Mejlumyan. Also, the investigation was able to identify 4 more Armenians who actively participated in the pogroms, and also a passport was arrested by the name of Zhanna, I do not remember the last name (Armenian), who supplied the criminals with the addresses of the Armenians.
A documentary film "echo of sumgayit" was filmed on this event. At least 26 Armenians, and how many were killed by other Armenians is unknown. Grigoryan was arrested and sentenced to 8 years in prison, but two years later he was transferred to Armenia from where he was immediately released. This means that Grigoryan, killing and raping Armenians in Sumgait, was not a criminal for Armenia at all. Now he lives freely in the Krasnodar Territory. How do you explain this?
https://youtu.be/A7BQbKbRIX4

[ViacheslavS]

So, only Armenians participated in the pogroms in Sumgait? Well, guys, this is the lowest point of Azerbaijani propaganda and some kind of cowardice. And why, by the way, did the Sumgait police not stop the pogrom and did military units have to restore order?

[Albay]

Vyacheslav Can you read?
This is not propaganda, but facts. I gave you a link and you can google the name Eduard Grigoryan there in the internet is full of materials from the investigation. The bottom is your persistence and an attempt not to see the facts, plus your unwillingness to think.
I wrote that the pogroms were organized by persons of Armenian nationality, and not about the fact that only Armenians participated. You watch the video that I put in a comet, this is an excerpt from a documentary, google it and watch the whole film. Eduard Grigoryan was arrested by the USSR prosecutor's office, not Azerbaijani Investigators. There is a long article and interviews with Kolesnikov and General Babkov much later on these events. There is video footage where the Mejlumyan sisters confidently point to Grigoryan as the killer of their father and the person who committed the act of violence against him. What is wrong with us?
Maybe something is wrong with you? It was not us who came up with the investigation. The investigation was led by the Prosecutor's Office of the USSR, not Azerbaijan. For some reason, these facts were not disseminated in the allied media such as not to aggravate the conflict.
Where was the police? By order from the center, that is, the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR in the barracks position, they were forbidden to wear uniforms and go out into the street. Contact the Minister of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR at that time why.
The military units located in Baku and Sumgait were also not involved and they were forbidden to stop the protesters.
All questions of this kind should be given to Gorbachev and his assistants.
I repeat, out of the 28 killed, 6 were Azerbaijanis. Are they not people? They were also killed by the pogromists. Why focus only on the Armenians?
If this is a tragedy only for Armenians, then why did the Armenians kill Armenians in that tragedy, were they participants and organizers of the pogroms?
Why were the pogroms of Azerbaijanis in Armenia not investigated, as a result of which a huge number of refugees were gathered in Sumgait and with such an explosive mass it was possible to provoke anything? refugees from Armenia?

[ViacheslavS]

Yes, I understood everything, the Armenians cut themselves.

[Albay]

Vyacheslav irony is completely inappropriate.
Just before accusing someone, study what happened, and do not throw the word Sumgayit.
Yes, in fact, the Armenians killed Armenians in Sumgait for which they were convicted by the court of the USSR, after 3 years they were transferred to Armenia, where they were safely released. At the moment, Grigoryan lives in the Krasnodar Territory and no one yells neither you nor the Armenians why one of the organizers of the pogrom and the murderer Armenians at large.
These are not my fabrications, but facts established by the investigation carried out by the USSR prosecutor's office.

[ViacheslavS]

If there were Armenians here, they would answer you according to Grigoryan, but you stand with each other, there were pogroms in the Azerbaijani city, the police / militia in the city was inactive until Soviet troops entered the city and instead of admitting there was such an unpleasant fact in difficult times, you continue to blame the Armenians, or as your colleague is trying to justify by saying that the Armenians are also bad.

[Albay]

Vyacheslav it is you who are worth each other.
As for Grigoryan and other Armenians, they will not be able to answer me anything. As for the city, I will repeat before that there were pogroms in Armenia and from there the Soviet leadership sent refugees to Sumgait and the militia was Soviet and there were Soviet troops in the city, which the Russian minister ordered to sit in barracks. instead of realizing that it was a prepared provocation of the Armenians and their patrons in the Soviet rulership, you are trying to get out and shame us. I repeat, out of less than 20 killed Armenians, 6 killed Grigoryan and his company. The pogromists of Azerbaijanis were also killed. I repeat the question why the killed Azerbaijanis do not bother you? Why is the Armenian one of the organizers of the pogrom and who killed the Armenians not interested?
Why is it not interested that before that there were already pogroms in Armenia and that from there the refugees were brought to Sumgait?
So if besides la la you have nothing to say better, be silent!
I will repeat for the one who was investigating in the tank by the USSR Prosecutor General's Office and arrested Grigoryan and other Armenians by the investigators who arrived from Moscow, and the video I presented tells everything in detail and the confrontation between Mejlumyan and Grigoryan is where she points to Grigoryan as the man who killed her father and raped her and her sister.

[ultra]

And what is Turkey doing in Syria, is it also establishing constitutional order?

[Bat]

Quote: ultra

And what is Turkey doing in Syria, is it also establishing constitutional order?

Remember in Transnistria and the DPR defending the Russians? In Syria, Turkey protects the Turks.
The same thing.

[ultra]

And what is Ukraine doing in Donbass? In my opinion, you are entangled in your logical chains!

[Bat]

Quote: ultra

And what is Ukraine doing in Donbass? In my opinion, you are entangled in your logical chains!

And that Donbas gained independence? Did I miss something?

[ultra]

And that Idlib gained independence?

[Bat]

Quote: ultra

And that Idlib gained independence?

Turks live in Idlib. And in the DPR, you mean Russians. So I say the same everywhere the same thing.

[Nag1984]

And you want to say who lives there?

[Bat]

Quote: Nag1984

And you want to say who lives there?

Syrian Turkmens or Syrian Turks or Syrian Turkomans (tur. Süriye Türkmenleri, Süriye Türkleri) are a Turkic people living in the territory of modern Syria.

[ultra]

Quote: Yarasa

Turks live in Idlib

Only Turks live there? Do you know that Arabs make up more than 90% of the population of Syria? Of the ethnic Turks, only about 30% speak Turkish.

[Bat]

Quote: ultra

Only Turks live there? Do you know that Arabs make up more than 90% of the population of Syria? Of the ethnic Turks, only about 30% speak Turkish.

Am I arguing with that? Only you did not take into account one thing, if the Arabs love Assad so much that they leave for Europe as refugees? Why are more than a million Arabs refugees from Syria supported by Turkey?

[ultra]

And the Turks loved Turkey so much that they also went to Europe in the millions.

[Bat]

Quote: ultra

And the Turks loved Turkey so much that they also went to Europe in the millions.

in general, they were invited to Germany in the middle of the 20th century by the German government. and then the rod is already Kurds and not Turks.

[ultra]

Quote: Yarasa

Why does Turkey contain more than a million Arabs refugees from Syria?

If Erdogan gets out of Syria, the war will be over in a matter of months. But Erdogan also benefits from refugees as an element of pressure on Europe and the war in Syria, as an opportunity to maintain his rating, despite the poor state of the economy and finances, inside Turkey.

[Bat]

Quote: ultra

But Erdogan also benefits from refugees as an element of pressure on Europe

I do not argue. It is necessary to be able to, to use everything. This is amigo politics.

[Grits]

Quote: Yarasa

if the Arabs love Assad so much why are they leaving for Europe as refugees?

And if Azerbaijanis love Aliyev so much, then why are they going to Russia?

[Bat]

Quote: Gritsa

And if Azerbaijanis love Aliyev so much, then why are they going to Russia?

How many emigrated this year? From Azerbaijan

[Grits]

Quote: Yarasa

Turks live in Idlib.

And STO INTO such a nation?

[Bat]

Quote: Gritsa

And STO INTO such a nation?

Google you will find out

[Nag1984]

No, it's `` different '')

[And Us Rat]

Quote: ultra

And what is Ukraine doing in Donbass?

The same as Russia in Chechnya in 1994.

[strannik1985]

Same

By 1994, 3 years had passed since the coup in the capital, i.e. the Chechens were given the opportunity to live as they want, the troops were brought in due to a wave of criminal offenses (kidnapping, murder, robbery, even the movement on the railroad had to be stopped). How long has elapsed since the overthrow of the Professor and before the start of the ATO?

[Albert1988]

Quote: And Us Rat

The same as Russia in Chechnya in 1994.

The same looks like this - first, lawlessness, banditry and murders of the population began in Chechnya - then troops were brought in. In Ukraine, first, troops were brought in, then massacres of the population began ...
Well, exactly the same ...

[And Us Rat]

Quote: strannik1985

By 1994 s

Quote: Albert1988

Same

And now, in fact:
The Russian Federation returned under its control the region ruled by the separatists. And the Sumerians do the same.
Or "THIS IS OTHER"?
Don't be like pindo itself.

[Albert1988]

Quote: And Us Rat

And now, in fact:

Let's in fact:

Quote: And Us Rat

The Russian Federation returned under its control the region ruled by the separatists.

After these same separatists a) took shape as a single force, b) began to wreak havoc, kill civilians and invade neighboring regions.

Quote: And Us Rat

And the Sumerians do the same.

What the Sumerians did: a) pulled the troops when there was no strong separatism and did not smell - there were only detachments "with bats" against the Nazis, b) they were the first to shoot and kill civilians.
So these two cases are, as they say, "two big differences."
In the case of the Russian Federation, the terror was on the part of the separatists, in the case of Ukraine, the terror on the part of the authorities (remember Odessa on May 2).

Quote: And Us Rat

Don't be like pindo itself.

Well, I will not become like them, the Ukrainians have already become like them, at least in the Donbass in relation to the civilian population (and their own) behave exactly like "penguins" ...

[Nag1984]

Quote: Yarasa

In the first, the DPR for the whole world is Ukraine and they impose constitutional law there,

Assad is establishing constitutional order in northern Syria? Or is it different?

[Bat]

Quote: Nag1984

Assad is establishing constitutional order in northern Syria?

Yes, I agree, so why kill and bomb your own citizens? And among the citizens there are those who have Turkish passports and Turks by nationality. Sound familiar? Here's the same thing.

[ultra]

Quote: Yarasa

Yes, I agree, so why kill and bomb your own citizens?

Exactly, why should Ukraine kill and bomb its citizens in Donbass?

[Bat]

Quote: ultra

Exactly, why should Ukraine kill and bomb its citizens in Donbass?

I do not welcome those who kill civilians. Whoever it is.

[ultra]

Quote: Yarasa

I do not welcome those who kill civilians. Whoever it is.

So you condemn Turkey killing the civilian population in Syria?

[Bat]

Quote: ultra

So you condemn Turkey killing the civilian population in Syria?

If Turkey and its army are killing deliberately and purposefully killing innocent civilians, then I am against it !!!!! I condemn it !!!

[Nag1984]

Here I am about the same, why was it necessary to bomb and kill residents of Donbass because they are against the Bandera government of the nationalists, many of them are Russian and have Russian passports.

[Bat]

Quote: Nag1984

Here I am about the same, why was it necessary to bomb and kill residents of Donbass because they are against the Bandera government of the nationalists, many of them are Russian and have Russian passports.

I repeat, I've always been against that
1. Murder of civilians.
2. I am against the fact that one ethnic group, if more then ask for self-proclamation.

[ultra]

He's got cognitive dissonance!

[Vlad1]

)))) He is for the Turks and Bandera and for justice, and at the same time he forgot how they themselves Azerbaijanis peaceful people are being killed

[Yujanin]

I forgot how the Azerbaijanis themselves kill peaceful people

Are you confusing anything?
And then, bayraktars look pitiful next to Russian gifts to Armenians. Anyone else in your place would be silent in a rag. before looking for a speck, first remove the logs from your eyes.

[Vlad1]

Well, yes, the bayraktars look so pathetic that you defeated with their help ... Think about what you are talking about and do not exaggerate your own military talents

[Yujanin]

Aliyev, of course, was wrong when he bought other military equipment for 100 lard. It was necessary to purchase only 20 Bayraktars and it would be in the bag.

[SSR]

Quote: Yarasa

Secondly, let's be honest, Russia supplied weapons against Turkey's brotherly Azerbaijan for the Armenians,

Comrade, just don't dissemble.)))
1. The Russian Federation supplies weapons to the state of Azerbaijan.
2. The Russian Federation supplies weapons to the state of Armenia.
3. The Russian Federation has never supplied weapons to the NKR unrecognized by anyone.
4. All the rest of the chatter about brotherly and non-brotherly, leave aside.
All were "bad" before the collapse of the USSR, and the collapse showed the fullness of the "brotherhood" of peoples, as an example of the Asians whose Russian-speaking schools are the elite and the Slavs who are actively trying to eradicate the Russian language.
Ps, and in general, why are the Turks and Erdogan, older brothers to peoples, such as Turkic-speaking?
These peoples roamed Siberia and spoke this language long before the appearance of the word Ottoman and Turks, and what kind of Turk is the brother of a Kalmyk?
Although, for example, an apple in Kalmyk is almn, in Kazakh it is alma, and in Uzbek it is something like olma.
Do not take political slogans and appeals for clean water.

[Bat]

Quote from S.S.R.

RF supplies arms to the state of Azerbaijan.

This is not a plus. This is the same as the United States supplies weapons to Palestine. Do you think the Palestinians will not use this against Israel? Nonsense. RF supplies for the loot. Which means that, as an ally, Armenia is below the floor in the eyes of certain people, or such an alliance is worthless.

Quote from S.S.R.

RF supplies weapons to the state of Armenia.

It's not worth the price again in the words of certain individuals from the Russian Federation who say that Azerbaijan is our strategic ally. At the same time, I will add that the UN resolutions prohibit the supply of weapons to any of the warring countries. We are talking about Armenia and Azerbaijan since Russia is in the OSCE. The United States kept neutrality, France partly too, but Russia did not.

Quote from S.S.R.

The Russian Federation has never supplied weapons to the unrecognized NKR.

Roman, you are either deliberately cunning and misleading people, or you are communicating on a topic that you are not even aware of. During the war, Russia helped the Armenians in full, through Iran. When the Azerbaijani army took the city of Fizuli, the Armenian base contains all the facts about how you helped or not. And there is still no such thing as NKR. These are the same Armenians with Armenian passports.

In this photo, a military cargo (Ujmurdia numbers) with ammunition crossed the Iranian border during the 44 days of the war.

A few days later, Azerbaijan returns Fuzuli, and among the war trophies this pops up.

And you want to say that your people didn't know this? Your people don't know who they're selling what to? Your people don't know who they can pass on what to and they didn't agree on this in advance? I hope you don't think we're naive. The Armenians themselves admit that during the war Russia helped the separatists with everything it could. If needed, I can also provide a video.

Quote from S.S.R.

Ps, and in general, why are the Turks and Erdogan, older brothers to peoples, such as Turkic-speaking?

Roman, how do you know this when you and your brothers are at war and you are waging a lard war? For this know-how.

Quote from S.S.R.

Although, for example, an apple in Kalmyk is almn, a Kazakh has an alma, an Uzbek of an olma type.

And in Azerbaijani ALMA!

[Vadim Kukhtiev]

If Russia decided to help the NKR "with everything that is possible", the state of Azerbaijan would cease to exist within a month. And Erdogan would not help. It's just that some people in Armenia decided to play multi-vector. I had to clearly explain what this leads to! This time.
Second. Khachiks have long been offered a completely acceptable settlement option - regurgitate the districts adjacent to Artsakh and sign a peace agreement with the full autonomy of Artsakh. Wherever there, the khachi decided that they were impossibly steep, having Russia behind them. At the same time, they shitted Russia in their pockets and did anything, just not preparing for war! Aliyev is a fine fellow, quietly preparing and re-equipping the army, establishing contacts with Erdogan, at the same time, having managed not to quarrel with Russia. Waited for the moment. And he waited! Taking off my hat! Moreover, when it was transparently hinted to him that he had taken his own, and that was enough, he instantly stopped the hostilities.
Pashinyan, along with the rest of Armenia, stupidly betrayed Karabakh, which fought honestly to the last opportunity, fully fulfilling its task of holding back the first onslaught of the Azerbaijani army. Further, the regular army of Armenia, by that time, mobilized and combat-ready, was to enter into action. But, Pashinyan decided to serve his time, especially when he learned that the 102nd Russian base in Gyumri would remain neutral until the internationally recognized borders of Armenia were violated. What is characteristic - he served and is still alive, and even the Prime Minister! So, dear khachiki, you have to blame yourself!
About the transfer of weapons. To Armenia, as an ally in the CSTO, we can transfer any weapons except nuclear weapons, while we can deploy nuclear weapons at our base, if we deem it necessary.
Azerbaijan is NOT in a state of war with Armenia or anyone else, therefore, it is not forbidden to sell weapons to it to anyone.

[ViacheslavS]

Secondly, let's be honest, Russia supplied weapons against Turkey's brotherly Azerbaijan for the Armenians, thanks to which the Azerbaijani people perished, being RIGHT! Is not it?

Let's be even more honest, Russia allowed Azerbaijan to take these regions, Russia has long proposed a plan to Armenia to transfer these seven regions to Azerbaijan and Russia decided to "teach a lesson" to Pashinyan.
And by the way, were those responsible for the downed helicopter punished there?

[Knizhnik]

It is logical. But, following this logic, first it is necessary to end economic relations with Ukraine itself, and then with all countries cooperating with it. I mean, to arrange total sanctions. Do you see it all? No. For 7 years, the West has been giving Ukraine money and weapons. Can you see it? What happened in 2021?

[Bshkaus]

first it is necessary to end economic relations with Ukraine itself, and then with all countries cooperating with it. I mean, 

... that is, self-isolate from the whole world? Well, they will perceive our country as another ocean and pass by. Will it make it easier for us?

[Knizhnik]

I don’t argue, I don’t understand selectivity. For seven years, all of Europe has been sending weapons and ammunition for the war with the DPR and LPR, no one has been blowing a mustache. In 2021, Turkey sold (!) The drones and that's it, the war, to close it and not let it go.

[Alexandr bogun]

Tatyana, according to your logic, if on our territory, say in the Republic of Dagestan, there will be a camp of 2 MMA fighters from the United States, and at this time hostilities begin there, say, with ISIS, will this be a valid reason for the introduction of American troops into Dagestan on Russian territory?
You understand that there are two options for a normal solution, the first is how normal countries do, and they evacuate their citizens from other countries or from war zones, examples of Libya, Afghanistan and in general many other places.
The second way is the initiation of armed peacekeeping missions through international organizations like the UN or the OSCE. As for Ukraine, then only the UN will probably be able to hold out enough peacekeepers. We have the opportunity to initiate this through the UN Security Council, then the matter of argumentation and proof of position.
And what you are hinting at is to start a war between countries by finding a pretext in the form of handing out Russian passports to Ukrainian citizens in defiance of international law, and in the end Russia will again be the one to blame, and all because instead of solving the problem we will behave like an elephant in a china shop. Do we need these people? If so, then let's evacuate them from there, pay benefits, provide housing, work, etc. Here they bring migrants from Central Asia, and here we have our own people with passports. But this is a lot of money and for their benefit, we will end up paying for it.
If we do not want to act as described above, then this means that in reality we do not need these people, but only are an excuse to justify the war. All the rest is talk about nothing. The Turks sell their weapons not only to Ukraine, but to those who buy them, they also buy weapons in Russia, the S-400 is an example of this, pays for the construction of nuclear power plants, allows gas to be supplied to Europe through its territory through the South Stream, Russia is everything is very beneficial and we ourselves say that the LPR is the territory of Ukraine and do not officially recognize them as some kind of independent republics. And all because as soon as we do this, then any future Chechnya, Dagestan, etc. will have a precedent from the very same Russia in relation to the LPR. So let's either take people away, or not raise this topic at all.

[Tatyana]

Quote: Alexandr Bogun

Tatyana, according to your logic, if on our territory, say in the Republic of Dagestan, there will be a camp of 2 dozen MMA fighters from the United States, and at this time hostilities begin there, say with ISIS, then this will be a good reason for the introduction of American troops into Dagestan on Russian territory ?

This example is not correct for you!

REFERENCE
Literally abbreviation (ММА - Mixed Martial Arts) translates as "mixed martial arts". Fighters can use techniques and techniques from different styles: karate, taekwondo, kickboxing, boxing, wrestling, jiu-jitsu and sumo.

You equate sports competitions, as such, of MMA fighters with the GENOCIDE of the banderoid Nazi authorities of Kiev on the part of national minorities in relation to the Russian people in Ukraine as in a post-Soviet country.

И this is done with the instigation of the West is precisely the GLOBALIST political character and is directed not just against the Russians, but in general against the existence of any Russia and the statehood of its peoples: against socialist, capitalist, feudal - ANY Russia!
We already went through this during WWI and WWII / WWII.

Quote: Alexandr Bogun

And what are you hinting at is to arrange a war between the countries, having found a reason in the form of distributed Russian passports to citizens of Ukraine, bypassing international law, and as a result, Russia will again be extreme, and all because in the place of solving the problem we will behave like an elephant in a china shop ... Do we need these people?

And what about our primordially Russian territories, cut by the Bolsheviks in 1922 during the formation of the USSR to the national outskirts on the principle of the so-called. "titular" nationality?

If you follow exclusively such a policy as you and Zelensky (Washington and London) are proposing, then Russia first and shrinks territorially, to "shagreen skin", and then Russia it will be completely destroyed by the West.
therefore we are talking about the self-identity and physical self-preservation of the Russian people in the historical territory of all of Russia!
Read on this subject the famous book of psychologist Philip Zimbardo "The Lucifer Effect"!

The overwhelmed Ukrainian and other national chauvinists of the collective West against Russians and Russia can only be stopped by FORCE! As it was in the Second World War.
Therefore, do not create illusions! Ahead is the WAR of the collective West with Russia, no matter how we delay it in time!
It is from this that the leadership of the Russian Federation must proceed in relations with its foreign "partners"!
Let's see the problems of war and peace 2-3 steps ahead!

"Yeltsin is not the only one to blame for hatred of Russians": Mikheev on the causes of Russophobia in the CIS countries

[Revival]

"And what about our primordially Russian territories, cut by the Bolsheviks in 1922 during the formation of the USSR to the national outskirts on the principle of the so-called" titular "nationality?"

You have some kind of split ..

Either we are there because of the genocide of the civilian population, we help out of humanitarian considerations, then suddenly our territory must be returned.

So genocide or just a pretext?

Something is not heard statements that we do not recognize the borders in Europe, at least in relation to Ukraine

[Tatyana]

Quote: Revival

"And what about our primordially Russian territories, cut by the Bolsheviks in 1922 during the formation of the USSR to the national outskirts on the principle of the so-called" titular "nationality?"

You have some kind of split ..

Do not pretend to be silly that you allegedly do not catch up with me!

Do you think that according to the "Lucifer's law", the "servants of Lucifer" will not move territorially further - and the GENOCIDE against the Russian people during the resettlement of Russians from the DPR and LPR - from the original Russian lands (!) - to Russia will end there?! Especially since the intentions of the "Luciverites"-Banderites - Ukrainian Nazis-Westerners together with their overseas curators - have long been voiced by the march on Russia with their dream of a military parade in Moscow itself!
We are talking about the survival of the Russian people, as in the Second World War!
Therefore, the enemy of the Russian people must be destroyed not only on the Russian land, but also in its lair!

So the liberation of the Russian people from the enemy of the Russians, as from the "servants of Lucifer", is also the liberation of the primordially Russian lands from the "servants of Lucifer" themselves.
Why can't you understand something ?!
It's just that you yourself with your question to me are on the side of "Lucifer" and his supporters and political apologists!

[Revival]

You just say directly then, we do not recognize the borders and rights of Ukraine a priori, this is ours and that's it.
Why hide behind screens?
Honestly and openly

[Tatyana]

Quote: Revival

You just say directly then, we do not recognize the borders and rights of Ukraine a priori, this is ours and that's it.

No not like this!

Russian people are kind and multinationally very democratic people! The Russians are ready, in principle, to concede the leadership in power to another people, but not to the geeks!
And if the other people in power do not know how to rule, then get out of the leaders and leave here!

[Revival]

Does this have to do with it?

1.Ukraine is a separate state or not?

If not, then there is no need to discuss further, the right of the strong is the right of the strong.
If so, then whoever does not like it left for a long time.

I am in favor of not being hypocritical, you think that you have the right to declare directly, and not hide behind rantings about "humanism and international law" ...

[VORON538]

Drunk will sleep, you will never be a fool. You are raving a black rabbi :)))

[Revival]

I understand that after reading this book, you are now so impressed that only in the terminology of "children of Lucifer" do you think, write, speak?
Will it change only after reading another source with a different terminology?))
Interrupt so to speak ..

[Tatyana]

Quote: Revival

I understand that after reading this book, you are now so impressed that only in the terminology of "children of Lucifer" do you think, write, speak?

And you answer me according to the principle "I have not read the book myself, but I condemn those who have read it"!

Dear! If the trivial terminology in understanding national issues does not reach you, why not use the concept of "Lucifer's servant", which in this case is more than suitable for Bandera Nazis and pan-headed Ukrainian chauvinists?

[Alexandr bogun]

1) I do not understand by whom and where, what is happening in Ukraine is recognized as such a concept as "Genocide"? When you practice verbiage, and verbiage as an example from yours, I think:

You equate sports competitions, as such, of MMA fighters with the GENOCIDE of the banderoid Nazi authorities of Kiev on the part of national minorities in relation to the Russian people in Ukraine as in a post-Soviet country.

And this is done with the instigation of the West is precisely the GLOBALIST political character and is directed not just against the Russians, but in general against the existence of any Russia and the statehood of its peoples: against socialist, capitalist, feudal - ANY Russia!

, then do not rush with words, the essence of which you do not understand or that do not fit the topic under discussion.

2) Now, in fact, there is no genocide of Russians in Ukraine, not a single international organization that is authorized to do this (like the UN) has not confirmed this, moreover, even the Russian Federation has not legally recorded or recognized any genocide against its citizens on the territory of Ukraine For the future I will write to you, Genocide is the extermination of certain groups of the population or entire nations for political, racial, national, ethnic or religious reasons. This is not the case, because as far as I know Russians live in Kiev, Odessa, Kharkov, Zaporozhye, and Dnepropetrovsk, and not exclusively on the territory of 30% of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions, which is controlled by the DPR and LPR. I have not heard or seen any evidence that all Russians were massacred in neighboring Donetsk Mariupol))) The same is true in the rest of Ukraine, bullets do not ask for citizenship and ethnic origin, those who shoot each other are killed.

3)

And what about our primordially Russian territories, cut by the Bolsheviks in 1922 during the formation of the USSR to the national outskirts on the principle of the so-called. "titular" nationality?

And what do you mean by "Original Russian territories"? From what year do they become original, from what century or by what principle do they pass from one hand to another and in the first they were not original, but in the second they became original? According to this logic, we are obliged to transfer Crimea to Turkey, because the Ottoman Empire owned Crimea for three centuries, and the Russian Empire and the RSFSR for a little more than 130 years, the Greeks (or rather their colonies) owned Crimea for three centuries from the 7th century BC to the 1st century AD, from the 1st century AD to the 4th century AD the Romans ruled, then the Byzantines from the 4th century to the 6th, after them the Khazars. Only after the 10th century the state of "Rus" began to have a relation to Crimea, but to say that only the current Russian Federation has a relation to Rus, and Ukraine and Belarus have nothing to do with it, that would be stupid. The basis of that state was rather on the territory of current Ukraine, central and northern Russia, as well as current eastern and southern Belarus. So Crimea can be considered Russian only since 1783, when it was captured and recognized by the defeated Turkey as part of the state of the Russian Empire.
So, I have described this only using the example of Crimea, that no state has any "ORIGINAL" territory, other peoples and states lived and existed on all territories before. The difference is only in the legality of their possessions, and not in who lives where. So I think I explained very clearly that there are international treaties and there are international bodies, and at some point they drew borders and everyone agreed with it, after that, a hundred years later, to say that in 1922 something was redistributed incorrectly in the USSR, especially when we are the heir to the USSR, that is nonsense! After all, if you do not recognize the redistribution of the USSR, does that mean we should now fight against the entire CSTO, the CIS countries and not only? Are you going to fight with the Armenians, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Belarusians, Georgians, etc.? I don't think so, and if so, why do some consider these lands to be "ORIGINAL" even though they became part of the Russian Empire later than many others that you don't consider "ORIGINAL"?))) Here the shadow will go beyond the fence)))
4) And why are you comparing me with Zelensky, I have the same attitude to Ukraine as you do ... Or if someone's position does not agree with yours, then he is no longer a Citizen of the Russian Federation?) Excuse me, but I was born during USSR and all my life I live in the Russian Federation, I have a passport like you of the Russian Federation and assign me to Zelenskiy, Biden, etc. no need, ok?
5) You, with one sentence, crosses out the previous one))) Then you write that you need to fight with Ukraine (you mean) to "sort of" protect the Russians on their territory. Then, in response to my answer, you come to the concept of "Primordial Russian lands", it's not about the Russians who live there) And now you already write to me that

If you follow exclusively such a policy as you and Zelensky (Washington and London) are proposing, then Russia will at first shrink territorially, to "shagreen skin", and then Russia will be completely destroyed by the West.

, that is, the question is not in the "PRIMORDIAL" territory, but simply in the expansion of the territory of the current Russian Federation)))
Do you understand what kind of mess you have in your head? You, as a militant, ideological communist, standing at the Orthodox Church to worship the "Belt of the Virgin" . Figure out for yourself why we need to fight with Ukraine in order to save Russian people? But that's why I wrote that war is clearly not a method for saving people, and I wrote above in the comment how those who want to save do it. Do you want to return the "ORIGINAL" lands? I wrote and described to you how much and who owned what you consider the "ORIGINAL" Crimea, and so we can analyze other territories))). Do you need to carry out territorial expansion? But then the question is, why do you need even more territory if we cannot establish order and a normal standard of living on that huge part of the planet that we already have? I don't live in Moscow, but 4 hours by car to the east, and we don't have the same standard of living and infrastructure as Moscow, let alone Krasnodar or Belgorod! Why not establish order on our own territory, but climb into a neighboring country of 40 million, which no longer wants to know us ... if they want to get into their EU, let them get away. They want to be part of NATO, and they have been talking about it since 2008, let them go, they are already de facto in NATO, there are officially thousands of instructors from NATO countries. Why bother them if we ourselves will have robots for hundreds of years to bring everything into some kind of order?! And it is clear to an idiot that no Europeans will fight against Russia, they cope with migrants with great difficulty, they live and work to be comfortable in their own country, the last thing that the same modern Germans, Italians or Spaniards need is to fight with the second most powerful country in the world in terms of military power, in which nuclear missiles alone are enough to destroy every NATO country 3 times over to zero.
We have it itching all the time, when you tell your neighbor let's paint the porch and change the windows, then in response there will always be a hundred reasons not to do anything. And when someone leaves the stroller unattended at the entrance, the same neighbor will find the strength to "hang" it, and time will find something to "push" somewhere for a couple of hundred wooden ones, and then safely buy vodyars and rub it for me: "that there is no money, there is a war in Donbass, NATO bases near Kharkov, Syria is oppressed, Venezuela is in trouble, tomorrow is a war! We need to repeat it! What other repairs in the entrance, what kind of windows ..." anything, just not at home. Instead of protecting Russians in Russia, we will be in Ukraine, Syria, CAR, Venezuela, and God knows where else.

6) I don't need Mikheev ... this is an "Expert" in everything, he will tell you about politics in Russia, Ukraine, the USA, in general in the EU and separately in each EU country, he knows everything about the economy in these countries and will tell you how to do it right, how to fight and with whom, common Julius Caesar and Napoleon were not lying around))) As smart people said: "a person who talks about everything, in reality does not understand anything." This is about Mikheev.

[Vadim Kukhtiev]

Sorry, there is such a concept, the national interests of Russia. LDNR in its current state are our proxies and meet the interests of the Russian Federation so as not to allow Khokhlostan to join NATO, integrate into the EU, etc. (I am very sorry for the people in the Republics, but there is no morality in politics, there are national interests).
Ukrainians-! They should officially recognize the LPR and DPR as independent, renounce territorial claims and run into the arms of the Europeans and NATO, another question is that they don't fucking want to be an official member of these organizations.
One fine day, Ukrainians they will play out and we will take back ours (Novorossiya) completely, and let the Poles deal with the Westerners and the villagers (they will remember Bandera Shushkevich and the like, the Poles also got their fair share at the hands of these "fighters for the independence of the independent"!). But we must wait for this moment, not yet!

[parma]

Quote: Tatiana

In early April, the leading manufacturer of Turkish drones, Bayraktar, said that Ukraine had already purchased their complexes. Wherein Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu assured that the deal is not directed against Russia.
And who is this deal directed against, if? there are citizens of the Russian Federation in the DLNR?

This is WAR !!!
Then What kind of gas supply to Ukraine and through Ukraine to the EU from Russia can we talk about?

Why the hell is Russia building a nuclear power plant in Turkey?, especially with Russian money? That Turkey's economy grew stronger and Turkish military-industrial complex that kills Russians?

For example, the United States, when Americans leave the country in which they built something, they have built everything - factories, enterprises, etc. - EXPLODE under the guise of a man-made accident and nothing is left behind from what they built in those countries!

Russia is too kind! This is perceived by the West only as its weakness and only provokes the aggressor.

A strange point of view... Russia in fact supplied weapons to both Azerbaijan and Armenia, and as a result of the war, it also sent peacekeepers... according to your logic, both countries should sever all relations with us? Or let's say, weapons supplies to Turkey on the one hand, Cyprus and Greece on the other... and there are many such cases...

[V means B]

Well, this is our multi-vector policy, and then suddenly Putin's daughter in Holland, which the Netherlands will not live comfortably.

[AC130 Gunship]

Tatyana,
More than 20 million Russians do not live in Russia. They live incl. in the USA, England, France, Germany, Australia and further - according to the list. There are 2 million Russians living in New York City alone. And if the United States, for example, will start a war with China tomorrow, this does not mean that the Russians are fighting against the Chinese.

[Tatyana]

Quote: AC130 Ganship

Tatyana,
More than 20 million Russians do not live in Russia. They live incl. in the USA, England, France, Germany, Australia and further - according to the list.

Gennady!
In Russian, your data is not correct. For in Ukraine alone, there are significantly more than 20 million Russians!

I have many friends who live in the USA, Australia ... They left the Russian Federation after 1991.
So, for your information, they are not at all not Russian by nationality, namely Russian-speaking Jews or, in extreme cases, married to Jewish women.

Sergei Mikheev correctly said that, for example, a Negro who has learned Russian is not at all Russian by nationality. He is Russian-speaking with his nationality.
Do not confuse ethnic Russians with Russian-speaking foreigners.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: Tatiana

So, for your information, they are not at all Russian by nationality, but Russian-speaking Jews or, in extreme cases, are married to Jewish women.

I don’t even know how to comment .. according to this logic - only Jews go abroad? Tatyana, this is a very strange conclusion .. VERY .. to put it mildly, illogical ... or all who left - immediately become Jews because Russians cannot leave the country even in theory?

[Tatyana]

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

I don’t even know how to comment... according to this logic, only Jews leave the Russian Federation?

Why are you surprised at this? Of course, not only Jews. As a rule, there are no new Russians among them. It's simple.

First of all.For Russians abroad, - unlike Jews and other nationalities - there are no Russian politically and economically ORGANIZED national diasporas around the world!
And secondly, Russians have no other historical national homeland of their own, except Russia!

[2 Level Advisor]

1. About the Jews and their organization - yes, but on the other hand, and what does it have to do with the Jews in general, except for them, no one leaves anywhere?
2. What does the diaspora have to do with the fact that 20 million Russians live abroad? For example, I will move to Brazil with my family, where there is no diaspora .. so what? what does the diaspora have to do with it? I’ll become a non-Russian or something, as soon as I crossed the border and settled in Brazil?
3.

Quote: Tatiana

Russians have no other national historical homeland of their own, except Russia

and which of the nationalities (okay, exclude the Jews "beloved" by you) is different from the national homeland?

[Tatyana]

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

1. About the Jews and their organization - yes, but on the other hand, and what does it have to do with the Jews in general, except for them, no one leaves anywhere?

I said this about my environment. Except for the Jews, in my environment and friends from the Russians, no one has moved abroad for permanent residence.

Quote: 2 level advisor

and which of the nationalities (okay, exclude the Jews) is different from the national homeland?

The historical homeland of the Germans is Germany, of the Armenians is Armenia, of the Azerbaijanis is Azerbaijan, of the Uzbeks is Uzbekistan, etc., etc.

Quote: 2 level advisor

2. What does the diaspora have to do with the fact that 20 million Russians live abroad? For example, I will move to Brazil with my family, where there is no diaspora .. so what? what does the diaspora have to do with it? I’ll become a non-Russian or something, as soon as I crossed the border and settled in Brazil?

Are you really a level 2 advisor? Something I, judging by your questions, very much I doubt it.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: Tatiana

Except for the Jews, in my environment and friends from the Russians, no one has moved abroad for permanent residence.

In yours not, but in my 3 families and only one of them "type" Germans by ancestors, the rest are Russians and not a single Jew ...

Quote: Tatiana

The historical homeland of the Germans is Germany, the Armenians are Armenia, the Azerbaijanis are Azerbaijan, the Uzbeks are Uzbekistan, etc., etc.

so I did not argue with this, why did you highlight the common truth so?

Quote: Tatiana

Are you really a level 2 advisor? Something I, judging by your questions, very much I doubt it.

sometimes if you are not understood, it’s because it’s better to explain .. I still don’t fully understand what you wanted to say to the Motherland from different nations and

Quote: Tatiana

As a rule, there are no new Russians among them. It's simple.

.. and by the way, on the topic of nickname Tatiana and its features, I don't argue

[Revival]

"Russians have no other historical national homeland of their own, except Russia!"

And what about all the other peoples on several historical, national homelands !!?

[Tatyana]

Quote: Revival

"Russians have no other historical national homeland of their own, except Russia!"

And what about all the other peoples on several historical, national homelands !!?

Do you really not understand what this is about?
We here on "VO" to the article "In Lvov" decommunized "the memorial-burial place of Soviet soldiers" Field of Mars "" we have already spoken, for example, about the "Map of the Pole".

Quote: Cutter
Doesn't it seem to you that this is just a demographic expansion ???????

Without a doubt, this is nothing more than the demographic expansion of the Poles into Ukraine and Belarus!

Germany did the same with the Russian Germans on the territory of Ingushetia before WWI. Germany acted similarly in the USSR before the Second World War, so the Soviet Germans were taken away - "deported" - from the Volga region at the beginning of the Second World War into the interior of the country out of harm's way.

See the book. Roman Ponomarenko: Soviet Germans "and other Volksdeutsche in the SS troops - - Moscow: Yauza, 2014. - 253, [1] p., [16] fol. Ill., Portra.: Ill.; 21 cm. - (Victory at any cost: the bitter truth about the Great Patriotic War). - Bibliography: p. 244-252

The book contains 10 chapters with a large number of sources and literature used in the list.
I warn you that the book is not digitized and there is no complete electronic version of this book on the Internet. But it is possible to buy the book itself on the Internet.
There is only a printed copy in the libraries.

Abstract to the book "Soviet Germans" and other Volksdeutsches in the SS troops "
There has never been such a book! This is the first serious study of the Volksdeutsche service (ethnic Germans living in other countries, including the USSR) in the SS troops. Did you know that there were hundreds of thousands of such SS men? How did the Nazis manage to win over their "compatriots abroad", turning them into one of the main sources of recruiting for the Waffen-SS? And what role did the "Soviet Germans" play in this "Hitler's guard"?
In our era of militant globalism and a new "migration of peoples" this topic is especially relevant!

Poland is active now in Ukraine and in the Republic of Belarus just like pre-war Germany, with an eye on the seizure of the territory where the Poles and their descendants live in Ukraine and Belarus..

[Revival]

Once again a direct question:
And what about all the other peoples on several Historical, National Homelands !!?

The Russians have one, while the others have several?

Name, for example, Historical, National well-known homelands of Germans, Italians, French !?

[Vadim Kukhtiev]

At the expense of a negro, if he just learns Russian, he will not become Russian and even Russian-speaking. A Russian speaker is one who recognizes Russian as a native language.
But if a Negro is born and grows up in Russia, in Russian culture and mentality, he will be Russian, despite the color of his skin and curls on his head

[Tatyana]

Quote: Vadim Kukhtiev

At the expense of a negro, if he just learns Russian, he will not become Russian and even Russian-speaking.
A Russian speaker is one who recognizes Russian as a native language.

Yes, at the same time, nationality does not cancel it out!
On this third - the NATIONALIST forces of his nationality - in the world can easily manipulate him against the state in which this Russian-speaking person lives, in favor of the forces of his NERUS nationality.
In particular, this is what the foreign migration policy is based on to replace the indigenous population - first of all Russians - in Russia.

[a22a]

I agree on the account of kindness, although it may be a cunning plan !!!

[Black5Raven]

Quote: Tatiana

that the deal is not directed against Russia.
And against whom is this deal directed if there are citizens of the Russian Federation in the DLNR?

DLNR as part of the Russian Federation? No ? So the citizens of the Russian Federation who are there need to be evacuated and that's it.
So either put on a cross or take off your panties. Either fully include in the composition with all the consequences or not make such loud statements about "war".

[tech3030]

Good Putin ordered to increase the volume of gas to Europe ...

[Revival]

Well, that means for the authorities this is not a war ..

[Finches]

Judging by the video, it looks very similar to the staged one - a helicopter bought on Aliexpress hovered over the position and made a picture that something exploded down there, like a powdery bomb made in the garage ... Some 3 people scattered in different directions from the "crap ", similar to a tool (but for some reason, not in an equipped position) ... The volunteer informed about this, first, and only then he was supported by the official services! Yes, if Ukraine really used the Turkish typewriter, Zelensky would have personally addressed the nation!

[LiSiCyn]

In the lower right corner, a fragment of the target coordinates "lit up". Already from a fragment of these coordinates, it becomes clear that this is not quite an old video from Karabakh.

[Bashkirkhan]

Quote: LiSiCyn

in the lower right corner, a fragment of the target coordinates "lit up". Already from a fragment of these coordinates, it becomes clear that this is not quite an old video from Karabakh.

While Zyablitsev has a stage of denial on his face.

[Finches]

Not effective and not effective as it looks - the crew is not destroyed, the weapon, apparently, too!

[Spambox]

This ammunition has a combination of low-power warheads, hits the target, including as an inertial ammunition, there are versions with a cumulative warhead. If I'm not mistaken, the weight of the entire ammunition is about 3 kg and its purpose is to damage the equipment, and not split it into atoms.

[Vadim237]

If it's a laser-guided bomb MAM L
Ammunition dimensions: diameter 160 mm, length 1 meter, weight 22 kg. A warhead weighing 10 kg can be: tandem cumulative, high-explosive fragmentation, thermobaric. The principle of guidance - by a laser beam, allows you to destroy targets at a distance of up to 8 km, as well as using satellite navigation at a distance of up to 14 km.

[Spambox]

Most of all, it looks like MAM C, judging by the video, an explosion is too small for a warhead of 10 kg, but for a 2-3 kg charge, MAM C is just right. Sincerely

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: Finches

Not effective and not effective as it looks - the crew is not destroyed, the weapon, apparently, too!

So what? Well, the next one will get there .. here the question is in the very situation of unpunished striking .. but if it got there, it didn't hit it again ..

[Avior]

Quite possible. The video is not from an official source, but from some kind of journalist

[Cat Kuzya]

Video from Karabakh? And if the coordinates are driven into Google?

[Egoza]

Quote: Finches

Yes, if Ukraine really used the Turkish typewriter Zelensky would have personally made an appeal to the nation

Well, then the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine made a hunch. Confirmed the destruction of DNR artillery by a bairactor. First they provoked a strike on the 93rd brigade, which entered the gray zone, and then they ran Bayrakter. And for Ze he will not rust, he will still speak.

[Bshkaus]

Yes, if Ukraine really used the Turkish typewriter, Zelensky would have personally made an appeal to the nation! 

It is only in the Russian Federation that there is a pathological craving for a fetish with military equipment and empty threats to use it. "Ze" made an appeal to the nation when buying bayraktars, then the adoption of the system implies its use as a "tool" in the daily working regime, according to the operational situation, which was done by the Armed Forces of Ukraine

[Finches]

Everything is true about the fetish ... Only the Russian army destroys terrorists in Syria, drives pirates away from civilian ships in the Gulf of Guinea, but the Armed Forces of Ukraine methodically bomb ... their fellow citizens who simply do not agree with the banderization of Ukraine - "in working and everyday mode" !

[Albert1988]

Quote: Finches

Judging by the video, it looks very similar to the staged one - a helicopter bought on Aliexpress hovered over the position and made a picture that something exploded down there, like a powdery bomb made in the garage ... Some 3 people scattered in different directions from the "crap ", similar to a tool (but for some reason, not in an equipped position) ... The volunteer informed about this, first, and only then he was supported by the official services! Yes, if Ukraine really used the Turkish typewriter, Zelensky would have personally addressed the nation!

It is hardly staged, but really strange video - for a start, all three members of the gun crew lay down as if on command a second before the strike - what is it? Did they hear the sound of ammunition? Or have you spotted a drone? The second - damage to the howitzer - it feels like they fired either with training ammunition, or with anti-tank ammunition, because, judging by the video, the howitzer was damaged very slightly and the explosion was just scanty.
So in any case, there are a lot of questions.

[Old tanker]

Hit, but close. Almost a direct hit. It's good that the guys weren't hurt, and the gun was definitely damaged. It is unclear why the other howitzers were not attacked.
And again, everything is like that of the Armenians! Howitzers in the open field! Without engineering equipment positions. No false positions and disguises.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Old Tankman

Hit, but close. Almost a direct hit.

But the ammunition is impotent! Or, instead of high-explosive, they used armor-piercing, "geniuses" ...

Quote: Old Tankman

the gun was definitely damaged.

But hardly significant.

Quote: Old Tankman

It's good that the guys were not hurt

Have you noticed - how did they lie down as if on command? This is strange, the impression is that they noticed the drone in advance.

Quote: Old Tankman

It is unclear why the other howitzers remained unattached.

Again, everything is very strange - only one howitzer had a calculation (the others did not see the fighters)

Quote: Old Tankman

And again, everything is like that of the Armenians! Howitzers in the open field! Without engineering equipment positions. No false positions and disguises.

As they say, until the thunder breaks out!
But the truth is there are interesting reports - that before delivering this blow, those same bayraktars were hanging out there in the sky for a long time without striking.
Incidentally, this is a very proven tactic of such UAVs in such conflicts - first, circling over the enemy for several days / weeks, doing nothing so that the enemy "gets used" and stops noticing them, and then "unexpectedly" strike.

[Old tanker]

But the ammunition is impotent! Or, instead of high-explosive, they used armor-piercing, "geniuses" ...

Most likely it is armor-piercing. Therefore, the calculation from the uadon wave did not suffer. Perhaps the only ukrov and there are.

Have you noticed - how did they lie down as if on command? This is strange, the impression is that they noticed the drone in advance.

Most likely they heard the sound of an approaching rocket.

Again, everything is very strange - only one howitzer had a calculation (the others did not see the fighters)

Nothing strange here. This is a weapon on duty. The battery did not fire, so other calculations were in the shelters.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Old Tankman

Most likely it is armor-piercing. Therefore, the calculation from the uadon wave did not suffer. Perhaps the only ukrov and there are.

Here, even higher, the comrade threw in the information that it could be a small-size corrected bomb.
But I also lean towards armor-piercing.

Quote: Old Tankman

Most likely they heard the sound of an approaching rocket.

It would be nice - then it will be at least slightly, but to reduce losses.

Quote: Old Tankman

Nothing strange here. This is a weapon on duty. The battery did not fire, so other calculations were in the shelters.

Yes, somehow I didn't think about it right away.

[medadmir]

So you have to bang in response, and get there!

[The popuas]

We urgently need to plant a couple!

[volodimer]

It is necessary to plant! And not a couple, but several tens or hundreds of these utyrkas.
And on the topic, I agree that it is necessary to use all means of electronic warfare and air defense (even those that have never been there and are not there) to show that all these UAVs are useless over the LPR and DPR.

[Wedmak]

Did you destroy it? The bomb fell nearby, two people escaped alive. What is the damage to the howitzer is a question; whose howitzer it is is also a question. In general, the Armed Forces of Ukraine, as usual, lie and incite conflict.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Wedmak

two people escaped alive.

All three people ran away!

[Revival]

Probably it meant that two escaped alive, and one just fled)

[svp67]

It's bad that they could not cover the position of the artillery, and not so much from this gliding bomb, but from the reconnaissance UAV that hung above them, but the opposite side does not have to be particularly happy, they did not hit the howitzer either ... it is clear how much she suffered from a nearby explosion, and how the crew suffered

[Alexander Seklitsky]

Maybe they themselves muddied the fake? Explosion package slammed under the drone footage. Everything looks very unconvincing. Even the entire crew ran away on foot after the blow. Let's wait for comments from the DNR

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: Alexander Seklitsky

Maybe they themselves muddied the fake? Explosion package slammed under the drone footage. Everything looks very unconvincing. Even the entire crew ran away on foot after the blow. Let's wait for comments from the DNR

What's the point, in such a fake? Bayraktar was just purchased for the purpose of using it in Donbass (that is, no one really hid it), the only question was when ... air defense plan ...

[Alexander Seklitsky]

Quote: Aleksandr21

What's the point, in such a fake?

You seem to have been born today .. Yes, it's elementary to throw a ram on a fan, to advertise yourself.

[Aleksandr21]

This is enough there, but I think it's not that ... the change of the Minister of Defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, constant personnel shuffling in the General Staff, + the recent arrival of Lloyd Austin to Ukraine ... what does this mean? Someone is strenuously fanning the fire in Donbass, and the practical use of the UAV just fits into this picture .... i.e. Ukraine has already been pumped up with weapons, trained the army, and now the "investors" want to receive their dividends.

[Pessimist22]

I think that Ukraine is being pushed to war, in the event of a conflict, Russia will have to fit in, and this is another political and economic crisis with the EU, the economy is already not in its best quality, but they want to weaken Russia even more and force it to make certain concessions.

[Wedmak]

They will push and most likely everything goes to this. But hardly anyone will fit in. Arms supplies - yes, propaganda - yes, they will even provide intelligence data, but they will fight until the last Ukrainian Nazi. I'm not even talking about the problems of an adequate population. In general, the powder keg is planted, the wick is even already lit, it only remains for him to reach the fuse.

[Siberian54]

The militia urgently needs to build electronic warfare installations .. And our Armed Forces have such a great opportunity to train on "kitties"

[Bat]

Quote: Siberian54

The militia urgently needs to build electronic warfare installations ..

Do you know how many electronic warfare machines are needed to combat UAVs? A very expensive pleasure.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Good video. Almost the same as what I write he said. Only on the alleged "interception" of the UAV, he gives inaccurate information.
1.RQ-170 just broke and fell, nothing magical
2. The video from Iraq is old, late 00s and early 10s, then the video was transmitted without encryption, like satellite TV. It was possible to watch it, but not to take control. Video and control goes through different channels.

[Bat]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Video and control goes through different channels.

That's right!

[Avior]

. the DPR NM howitzer also did not cross the demarcation line

In fairness

Butusov, whom they like to quote on VO, wrote that 93 brigades were fired from D-30 howitzers near the village of Granitnoe in the Donetsk region, one person was killed, and the shelling could not be stopped diplomatically.
As far as I understand, in such cases it is reported about the shelling of the OSCE mission, but its work is now blocked.

[suhorukofal]

Quote: Avior

but her work is now blocked.

What a disaster, they blocked them, because they were the only salvation, I have one question. Did they even work, these comrades? I don’t remember when the child was killed, did they even say anything about it? The Ukrainian Armed Forces didn’t pay much attention to them. So there’s nothing to block, they themselves would be happy to block themselves

It is especially "appropriate" to recall the Minsk agreements after the statements of the Ukrainian side that they can be the first to open fire whenever they want.

[Shiden]

Aleksey, have you ever seen those representatives of the OSCE in your life, or while living somewhere in Russia you repeat the same thing over and over again. If you do not know how this structure works, then there is nothing to repeat after others. And many people also criticize the OSCE representatives in Ukraine out of ignorance.

[APASUS]

Quote: Shiden

https://www.osce.org/files/2021-04-08%20Daily_Report_RUS1.pdf?itok=17714

Here's a person posted a specific report for you https://www.osce.org/files/2021-04-08%20Daily_Report_RUS1.pdf?itok=17714
What doesn't suit you?
Blah blah blah violation of the regime, one child died, blah blah blah, and no specifics. We do not see, we cannot
And what exactly is the role of the OSCE mission?

[Avior]

They established the objective, factual side of the issue - the child died, no one saw the drone, the type of ammunition could not be determined, separated it from the newspaper propaganda chaff, they did not find evidence of the use of the drone. And no one did, by the way.
Someone didn’t like it, the media started talking about the "blind".
What did you expect from them?
After all, no one gave them judicial functions and they are not UN troops, which may have the right to use weapons against violators of the agreement by a decision of the Security Council.

[APASUS]

Quote: Avior

They established an objective, fact-based side of the issue - the child died, no one saw the drone, the type of ammunition could not be determined, separated it from the newspaper propaganda husk.
What did you expect from them?

Damn, I don't want to look, I won't even bother.
A shell arrives at the house, there is a funnel, there are fragments and a direction. But the report says that the violation of unknown persons. I'm not talking about the refusal to go to the scene

[Avior]

read the links below. They went to the scene and recorded what was actually confirmed by the objective side of the case.

on the northern outskirts of Aleksandrovskoye, the observers saw
funnel (20 cm wide) estimated to be recent. Observers
fixed numerous holes (from 2 mm to 7 cm wide): the main gate
and a wooden shed about 12 m northeast and 1 m southwest of the crater;
in 2 metal water tanks approximately 4 m southwest of the funnel; and also in
a wooden fence around the garden, about 3,5 m south of the funnel. Patrol members
The missions also recorded numerous holes (2 mm to 7 cm wide) in
the two southwest walls of the house, as well as the south wall and the entrance metal door.
The observers also saw that 3 glass panes in the southwest wall of the house were
broken. Inside the house, they saw a hole (5 cm wide) in the ceiling of the kitchen and another
2 holes (4–5 cm wide) in the living room, in the southwestern part of the house. Install
the ammunition from which weapon caused the appearance of the crater, it was not presented
- 5 -
possible. All of the above damage is estimated to be recent.
presumably as a result of the scattering of fragments.

https://www.osce.org/files/2021-04-08%20Daily_Report_RUS1.pdf?itok=17714

[Avior]

I don’t remember when the child was killed, did they even say anything about this?

They investigated this case.
First a short
https://www.osce.org/files/2021-04-05-06%20Daily%20Report_RUS.pdf?itok=45441

On April 6, the boy's grandmother told the observers by telephone that
that on the afternoon of April 2, her grandson was near their house on Dorozhnaya Street in
Alexandrovsky when she heard the sound of an explosion. Grandma added that she saw
there is white and black smoke outside. According to her, when she went outside, she saw her grandson.
lying on the ground and noticed traces of fragments of damage on the wall of the house and
adjacent fence

Then a more detailed account of the coming
https://www.osce.org/files/2021-04-08%20Daily_Report_RUS1.pdf?itok=17714

Observers continued to clarify reports of the death of a 5-year-old boy on 2 April in
not controlled by the government n. settlement Aleksandrovskoe (47 km north-east of
Donetsk), located about 14 km south of the contact line (for
for previous sightings see SMM Daily Report 6 April
2021 years).

The investigation showed that the grandmother did not see, not only the drone, but in general the moment of the explosion.
Therefore, further the topic of the drone was hushed up.
And now we can write that they are blind...

[carstorm 11]

Yes, no one cares for a long time. But what's funny in your words is the reference to these agreements that 404 refuses to implement, but for some strange reason the republics must implement them) And the fact that the OSCE is blocked is completely silly. They are of no use in achieving peace and never will be! Quite the opposite.

[ultra]

Quote: Avior

In fairness

In fairness to the APU
are moving into the gray zone. How are there in Minsk about this?

[Avior]

In fairness to the APU
moving into the gray area

There is no such thing as a gray area in the Minsk agreements
Line installed

on the basis of the line established in the Minsk Memorandum of September 19, 2014 No.

Where it is written

2. The stop of the units and military units of the parties on the line of contact as of September 19, 2014.

Ukraine, by the way, does not confirm the advance into the gray zone in this case.

[ultra]

So, are they violating the Minsk Armed Forces or not?

[Avior]

Too general question.
There, both sides are violating on some issues.
Specifically, I wrote to you.

[Thorvlobnor IV]

It is easy to check the map of the contact line on September 19, 2014 and compare it with the current one.

[Avior]

Clearly, what can you say here

[Primipilus]

Smelling the smell of an easy victory, Ukraine can make a fatal mistake.

[bistrov.]

Quote: Primipilus

Smelling the smell of easy victory

Another advertising gimmick, from the series: "... launch rockets to Moscow ...", flew along the demarcation line, threw some kind of "land mine" on the model of the howitzer, and ukrosvidomye already pissed with boiling water in the nets from joyful excitement ..., good on the couch ....

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Primipilus

Smelling the smell of an easy victory, Ukraine can make a fatal mistake.

What mistake?
War with Russia?
So she was invented for this.

[Mountain shooter]

Some kind of unconvincing shooting ... After the explosion, the crew fled on their own feet, the howitzer is a strong thing, whether it is out of order is not clear. What could damage there with such an explosion? Panorama?
But they made a lot of noise. Information ...

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

The calculation after the explosion escaped

Lucky this time.
The next one might be less fortunate.
The problem must be solved.

[Evgeny Alexandrov_2]

The bag of cement was thrown off.

[samarin1969]

Quote: Siberian54

The militia urgently needs to build electronic warfare installations .. And our Armed Forces have such a great opportunity to train on "kitties"

"Kitties" will also study the capabilities of our electronic warfare and modernize.
The Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine personally authorized the use of an attack drone. Ukraine demonstratively returns to the "battle sky" in 2014. I have no doubt that the West will also support the return of the modernized Ukrainian aviation.
Apart from the ridiculous bet on the "Trojan Medvedchuk", there are no other "responses" to be seen.

[Zaurbek]

Gouge and electronic warfare

[Nychego]

Quote: samarin1969

Apart from the ridiculous bet on the "Trojan Medvedchuk", there are no other "responses" to be seen.

Yes, this horse has long been burned.
As for the answers - you have to search, try. UAVs are a real factor, ready to significantly influence the course of future conflicts, so responses are needed.

Give UZGA normal funding and let the UAV-interceptor saw, otherwise multifunctional equipment is a temporary solution. The history of the development of manned aviation is repeated with the UAV.

About an urgent response: drive the Torah - Libya has shown that they are at least equally cut with the Bayraktars.

[Vadim237]

There are no Thors in Libya and never were there. Armor from the UAE were.

[Zaurbek]

They can fly along the border and hit Art calculations with a range of up to 8 km. They also have Art radars to determine the location of batteries.

[ultra]

Quote: Zaurbek

They can quite fly along the border and hammer Art calculations with a range of up to 8 km.

And what prevents to shoot them down over the territory controlled by the Armed Forces? IMHO It's high time to do this.

[Zaurbek]

To shoot them down, you need control of the airspace over the LPR and DPR and over part of Ukraine and an air defense missile system with coverage of the territory of Ukraine. Nothing at all.

[Vadim237]

Russia already controls the entire airspace over the LPR - in terms of radar coverage.

[Zaurbek]

So the air defense system is left for someone to enter and activate and identify

[Vadim237]

At least 30 Carapaces will be needed to close the airspace from Bayraktars, and also have to create a single air defense command post with them and other means.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Vadim237

At least 30 Carapaces will be needed to close the airspace from Bayraktars, and also have to create a single air defense command post with them and other means.

Why shells? There is already a type of trophy Torah)))

[Zaurbek]

Depends on how many Bayraktars... is there intelligence... Positions need to be changed, etc. Jews, for example, figure out the UAV control point and hit it. That's also a way out.

[Prisoner]

Puppy puppies come out.

[Zaurbek]

\ some run up, others suffer, some children in London and keep money.

[Prisoner]

Keeping money and children in London is not fashionable these days.

[Zaurbek]

There are other, quieter places ...

[sergo1914]

A weird way to get transit and gas discounts. That's quite strange. Some kind of illogical.

[Egoza]

Quote: sergo1914

A weird way to get transit and gas discounts. That's quite strange. Some kind of illogical.

The logic is simple. "We all owe" and "the whole world is with us"

[sergo1914]

Quote: Egoza

Quote: sergo1914

A weird way to get transit and gas discounts. That's quite strange. Some kind of illogical.

The logic is simple. "We all owe" and "the whole world is with us"

Minus for what? You suffer for the truth.

[TerraSandera]

Strange reaction from site visitors. Immediately some, "but this is not true", staged, etc. Well, of course, it wasn't them who almost got killed there. And denial, well, damn, they still ran away, and the howitzer is intact, well, let it go on Ukrainians bombing. Some kind of blatant indifference. Sadly, the same thing happened in Karabakh. But it was not Russians who died in Karabakh. And here. I hope there are no such deniers in competent circles and they will take some measures

[mitroha]

Quote: TerraSandera

Strange reaction from site visitors. Immediately some, "but this is not true", staging, etc.

Do you understand the difference between site visitors and competent authorities making certain decisions? If so, why are you surprised?

[ultra]

Quote: Mitroha

Do you understand the difference between site visitors and competent authorities making certain decisions?

Decision-making bodies have long ceased to think about the interests of Russia; they will sell their mother for the money.

[Zaurbek]

Their children study there, they have their mentality and money taken out of the Russian Federation. And they do this because they cannot transfer power, and those who come later will take away what they have accumulated, just as they did.

[donavi49]

Thrown a little undershoot. If there were a flight, there would be corpses. Learn and will throw the flight.

[Zaurbek]

The ammunition there is not the most powerful in the KG ... it could have been with ready-made fragments, then all the PPC

[Albert1988]

Quote: donavi49

Thrown a little undershoot. If there were a flight, there would be corpses. Learn and will throw the flight.

I naively thought that high-precision ammunition was on the bayraktar ...

[donavi49]

Where you put a mark there and fly. The mark stood in front of the gun all the video - and flew there. At the same time, the MAM-S ammunition itself is small, which is 2,5 kg warhead. In general, while they train.

[Albert1988]

Quote: donavi49

Where you put a mark there and fly. The mark stood in front of the gun all the video - and flew there. At the same time, the MAM-S ammunition itself is small, which is 2,5 kg warhead. In general, while they train.

It would be nice to cut them short at this stage, but here it is impossible to do without our intervention (albeit indirect), and our "hands-on leaders" will not do anything decisive until the flow is started ...

[Bshkaus]

Strange reaction from site visitors. Immediately some, "but it's not true," staging, etc. Well, of course, they were not nearly nailed there. 

Your truth: a couple of hundred thousand have passed through participation in the database in our country. Of these, less than half took part in real battles, a third of which died, thus, on 140ml of the country, on the strength of several tens of thousands have experience of fire contact with the enemy - this is a drop in the ocean and naturally, sofa generals do not know and do not understand all the specifics ... It's like in astronautics, 99% of people have not seen a space suit, and out of 1% of those who saw it, less than 1% saw how it works, or worked in it themselves, but this does not prevent 99% from considering themselves experts accusing the Americans that they had not been on the Moon. .k astronauts on the rover supposedly sit motionless, not realizing that in an inflated spacesuit it is possible to move well while the sas SC remains motionless. Here, too, the people do not understand that the shock wave deforms the barrel, although they have the right to think so, after all, they have not studied the strength of materials (((

[I am not a robot]

30000 casualties is where we fought like this

[Bshkaus]

30000 casualties is where we fought like this

in total: Afghan, two Chechnya, Georgia, Syria, but from where the cemetery of the Pskov paratroopers who died at the end of the summer of 2014 I have no idea: /

[I am not a robot]

why then did you have so few who fought, there are more than 1 million veterans according to documents, and the USSR fought in Afghanistan and Ukrainians died there, why did you add them then
and if you don’t know: not only Pskov, but also from other regions serve in the Pskov Airborne Division
where is this cemetery?

[I am not a robot]

OK. but still return to the real world, here it seems like a serious site and fantasies need to be somehow reinforced

[VORON538]

sure that this is not pro-Western propaganda? Pashinsky from cosmonautics :)))

[VORON538]

He will never say this, the Ukrainian mother-in-law has brainwashed him

[steppe wolf]

The guy wrote everything correctly, only numbers are not his strong point - there are more than 1,5 million combat veterans in Russia (if you believe the data of the State Duma Defense Committee)

[Albert1988]

Quote: TerraSandera

Strange reaction from site visitors. Immediately some, "but it's not true," staging, etc. Well, of course, they were not nearly nailed there. And denial, well, damn it, they still ran away, and the howitzer is intact, well, let the Ukrainians continue bombing. Frank indifference of some sort.

But you must admit, compared to the footage of the use of these drones in other regions, this video looks, to put it mildly, strange ...

[OgnennyiKotik]

Nothing strange. Hit MAM-C (which is small), Turks / Azeris used MAM-L (which is big). Calibers are different.
Count the training hit.

[Albert1988]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Nothing strange. Hit MAM-C (which is small), Turks / Azeris used MAM-L (which is big). Calibers are different.

And what is the point of hitting the target with that ammunition that will not harm it?
Don't you pay attention to the fact that all three lay down as if on command? Did they notice this same MAM-S on the approach? Or was the UAV itself noticed? You seem to have thrown a lot of videos of using bairaktorv ...

[OgnennyiKotik]

Ukrainians They train, test their reactions, conduct reconnaissance; this blow in itself has no value.
Where does the information come from that did not cause harm? The howitzer was damaged, most likely it can be restored, but we do not know for sure. One soldier was wounded.
Yes, we did. What's so surprising about that? Apparently the bomb behaves differently than the MAM-L.

[Albert1988]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Ukrainians train, check their reaction, conduct reconnaissance, this blow in itself is of no value.

That is, they warn the enemy about their intentions, well, good luck, well ...

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Where does the information come from that did not cause harm? The howitzer was damaged, most likely it can be restored, but we do not know for sure.

The howitzer is damaged but not destroyed ...

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

One soldier was wounded.

Judging by how briskly they left, he was wounded very slightly.

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Yes, we did. What's so surprising about that? Apparently the bomb behaves differently than the MAM-L.

It is surprising that no one heard / saw anything from something before ... In any case, everything looks very strange ...

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Albert1988

That is, they warn the enemy about their intentions, well, good luck, well ...

They have been repeating this for a year (or when did they buy TV2?) There will be more further. This is a trial balloon. The Turks started the same way.

Quote: Albert1988

Howitzer damaged but not destroyed

After being hit, can this howitzer continue to fight? Returnable loss or irrecoverable, this is the second question.

Quote: Albert1988

Judging by how briskly they left, he was wounded very slightly.

Not badly injured, that's very good. But the very fact of injury remains.

Quote: Albert1988

something has never been heard / seen before

Photo attached, both bombs were made at the same time. The Turks could use C and L, they do not post reports on the use. Maybe in the video where it was, it was already posted on the network for a couple of hours.
There is the simplest answer, save. Bomb C is clearly cheaper.

[Albert1988]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

They have been repeating this for a year (or when did they buy TV2?) There will be more further. This is a trial balloon. The Turks started the same way.

It's one thing to repeat, another thing to do!

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

After being hit, can this howitzer continue to fight? Returnable loss or irrecoverable, this is the second question.

One thing is clear - the damage is insignificant, and the issue is not irrecoverable - the issue is the repair time! Unless it is ruled out that the fragments could damage the barrel.

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Photo attached, both bombs were made at the same time. The Turks could use C and L, they do not post reports on the use.

But is there a video of the use of bayraktars? Can you assess the power of the ammunition used?

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

There is the simplest answer, save. Bomb C is clearly cheaper.

Probably.

[Ros 56]

Well, since they say that no one crossed anything, we will consider this as a staged propaganda of the Banderlog.

[Nychego]

With the use of an attack drone, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are actually bringing the armed conflict in Donbas to a new level of confrontation.

'Whatever happens, we have got
The Maxim Gun, and they have not. '
Hilaire belloc
(The most sympathetic to me is this translation of these lines: "Everything will be as we want. / In case of various troubles, / We have a" Maxim "machine gun, / They do not have Maxim")
It's time for the Rabels to look in the warehouses - there should definitely be several "Thor" complexes in the bins, and even, Oh, miracle! With prepared calculations. The Torahs with the Standard Bearers diverge at least approximately 1: 1.
It’s very good that trouble should happen to the Bayraktarov operators.

In other cases, the rebels are doomed to suffer.

[tralflot1832]

Lavrov's department with the fire-headed heads has exhausted itself, it's time to take on the Shoigu department. Winter is on the nose, no one will blink.

[Nychego]

Quote: tralflot1832

It's time for Shoigu's department to tackle this

Who in power will allow him? There, the testicles are securely pressed by doors in the form of bills, real estate, and children.
It remains speak and dream of a decisive response.
If a solution can be found, it will only be within the framework of an already existing conflict.

[tralflot1832]

Shoigu's daughter travels around Italy, applying markers for missiles! Everything is fine, the Europeans did not find money, only somewhere 2 million euros of accounts were arrested from Russian sanctioners. Not tired!

[Cananecat]

One thing is not clear to me. Do the republics have no air defense capable of landing these UAVs, or can we not interfere with their work from our territory with electronic warfare systems?

[Nychego]

Quote: Canecat

Can't we disrupt their work with electronic warfare systems from our territory?

For its own - direct aggression. It is necessary to drag complexes at least to the republics.
Well, Bayraktar will be smarter for now than the Outpost with Orion - he is not very inclined to fall from the work of electronic warfare, rather he will simply return to the zone of receiving signals from his operator.

[Cananecat]

Quote: Nychego

rather, it will simply return to the signal receiving area from its operator.

The task is that he does not bomb, and what will happen to him, this is the tenth thing.

[I am not a robot]

so the Ukrainians were shooting from their territory

[VORON538]

A migrant from Russia to Ukraine considers Donbass a foreign territory for ukrovoyenov.

[donavi49]

1) The main air defense complex of the LDNR is Strela-10. Against any MALE UAVs, he will be like in a dash - see Karabakh. Perhaps they will shoot something down and they will be able, due to an oversight of the operators, but this is a one-time success, against the background of being carried out into one wicket.

Again, the territories are large, single shells will rather fight for their lives. In general, see Libya / Karabakh with the Thor.

The air defense system is at war, it is not at medium altitudes. We need radar detection, we need Buki and not in the amount of 1-2 hidden in the mines, as a last resort, but to fully cover the troops.

2) The importance of electronic warfare is extremely publicized. And every year, even the theoretical efficiency will fall. Let's imagine that the electronic warfare completely crushed all signals. What TV2 / Orion / Any modern MALE will do? Will go home on the INS at the programmed level.
It is also difficult to hit the command post in practice. It's a truck. Which can be parked in n. control the raid of 3 UAVs and dump them out of the settlement, even if they track them down by transmissions.

[Cananecat]

Quote: donavi49

The air defense system is at war, it is not at medium altitudes.

In fact, there is nothing to oppose to such raids. But this is a trial balloon and then massive raids with targeted destruction of equipment will begin, i.e. With folded hands and gritting our teeth, we are waiting for the repetition of Karabakh. You can't do that either.

[Avior]

The importance of electronic warfare is extremely publicized. And every year, even the theoretical efficiency will fall.

The mass appearance of attack UAVs in the armies of the world has created significant potential problems for electronic warfare, which until then had been operating in greenhouse conditions, in fact, against guided munitions and reconnaissance unarmed UAVs.
Nobody fired at him except in isolated cases.
And now the situation has changed. An operating EW station actively emits, and at known frequencies, as a rule, it is stationary, which means that neither detection nor destruction of it is a big problem for modern guided weapons. Moreover, false UAV control signals can provoke it to more active work, that is, create conditions for its detection.
Therefore, putting on electronic warfare in the fight against UAVs now is not the most reasonable decision.

[Vadim237]

Electronic warfare against gliding bombs and laser-guided missiles is generally useless, and against optical targeting devices on UAVs, too, and if the drone is made autonomous with elements of AI target recognition, then electronic warfare will become useless as a whole, and the worst thing is that MANPADS will also be useless against such attack UAVs and kamikaze drones, due to the IR signature being too low to be captured by the homing head.

[Avior]

I meant primarily against UAVs
In addition to what they are already capable of
avoid interference, modern UAVs are quite capable of providing active resistance

[Tavrik]

Will go home on the INS at the programmed level.

Thus, the enemy's combat mission will be disrupted. Which was required.

[GAndr]

I'm wondering, they spit in our face, they stole the gold, now here's a drone ... How much can you wipe off? that's really not enough evil.
Why has not an unknown missile arrived yet, and believe the airfield where these drones are based has not been destroyed?
Honestly, I hate to have such a toothless power ...

[Nychego]

Quote: GAndr

that's really not enough evil

Trunk to the teeth and go to the checkpoint.

Quote: GAndr

Why has not an unknown missile arrived yet, and believe the airfield where these drones are based has not been destroyed?

Well, if only because "unknown missiles" only fly in books for kids: now the launch will be recorded, and the flight, and the nameplates will be assembled at the site of the gap.

[GAndr]

1. I have already given my homeland! Moreover, where not everyone has ever been ... so you shove your own it into yourself ...
2. While we will be ashamed of our capabilities about us and will wipe our feet. Are you afraid of sanctions? And there is no reason for them to hang on to us, do not worry. Any action must cause 10-fold opposition on our part, so that even such thoughts do not arise.

[Nychego]

Quote: GAndr

I have already given mine to my Motherland

So instead of the sin of anger, show the virtue of humility.
Why do you urge the current youngsters to be driven into a meat grinder, if you yourself do not want to climb there?
Voynushka with Hoh-Land this is not a "pysch-pysch and victory" will be, no matter what they broadcast from the hypnotoad. ).

[Cat Kuzya]

And, here we are beginning to reap the benefits of not recognizing the LPR and the DPR as independent states. If Russia at one time recognized them as independent states, it could well "sell" (provide assistance) to them any air defense and electronic warfare weapons quite officially. Now, how?

[Vadim237]

This is still a small part of the gold of the Scythians - in the Crimea, such treasures are awaited in bulk in the land of their archaeologists.

[konstantin68]

Dear Strategists! Please tell me Comrade. Shoigu, that we should shoot down a couple of these birds, without noise and dust. And then I call, he does not pick up the phone.
And the effect would be simply colossal, I will not explain why.

[ultra]

Quote: konstantin68

Please tell me Comrade. Shoigu, that we should shoot down a couple of these birds,

He is afraid that after that, the daughter will not be allowed to Italy.

[Vadim237]

And the dacha in Italy will be taken away, like from our entire top - and the docha and the dachas are the most sacred for them.

[GAndr]

Quote: Nychego

Quote: GAndr

I have already given mine to my Motherland

So instead of the sin of anger, show the virtue of humility.
Why do you urge the current youngsters to be driven into a meat grinder, if you yourself do not want to climb there? Voynushka with Hoh-Land this is not "pysch-pysch and victory" will be, no matter what they hang from the hypnotoad. ).

If a mobilization is announced, then I will naturally be called up from the reserve. Another question is that with the forces that the Armed Forces have, Russia does not need general mobilization, simply because there will be enough regular connections.
Yes, and the Nazis simply will not fight, it’s scary, soon there will be 20 and before the meeting of the heads of the leading 20 * states, it is clear that with the filing of the owners, Bandera aggravates the situation.
So it’s about such cases that I’m talking about, that would discourage Bandera or anyone else to kill Russian citizens, you have to answer and answer harshly, not just chew snot. This must have survived, any mongrel wipes his feet on Russia.
Note, the animals directly say that it was the Russian cannon that was destroyed ... the Russian one, so what else do you want? A cannon today, and what tomorrow?

[Dikson]

What was to be expected.. - that's why Ukraine bought "Bayraktars", to use them.. I see here they are already loudly shouting about the need to supply "Tors", "Pantsirs" and "Buks" to the LPR and DPR? A good thing.. - There are probably still a lot of "Boeings" flying in the Ukrainian sky.. - it won't take long to set them up.. Again - the public has become picky - "is the crew alive and running away?" . "Did they really hit them?!" . "Why is there no blood, and where are the torn off arms and legs?" .. "Weak ammunition - a howitzer, like new..:!"... People, listen to yourselves.. - ... And few people write about the fact that the war there has entered a new phase, and the militias will now, following the example of Israel, be killed without crossing the demarcation line.. Shoot them like prey, while hunting from a helicopter..

[Cat Kuzya]

Well? Your suggestions? There is a solution that will settle the situation: 1- all armed people of the LPR and DPR go to Russia, leaving their weapons there and become in Russia .... unemployed, who must somehow be socialized so that they do not join the ranks of the criminals. 2- Ukraine occupies the territory of the DPR and DPR and revives its statehood there. 3-Russia helps Ukraine politically and economically to normalize life on the territory of the former LPR and DPR. How do you like this scenario? I’ll tell you a secret, I didn’t come up with it. And this is exactly what the civilians of these very LPR and DPR already want - they are already tired of all this that is happening there, of that "freewoman" who runs there, and they just need certainty and statehood ..

[Cat Kuzya]

What's not to like? If you think about people, specifically about people, then this is the most normal proposal. Of course, if you're going to use a dick-counter, then yes - Russia is "losing face" here, but are ordinary people the winners, or are "ordinary people" not the main thing here? Is the "dick-counter" the main thing? If we're talking about losing face, then Girkin has long said that the Russian Federation lost its face after the "Swiss landing", having exchanged bills and "piggy banks" for the "Russian spring". Since the "Russian spring" was betrayed, all that's left is to save people, give them a normal life, albeit under Ukropiteks, but help them politically and economically. And by the way, why do we continue to push Ukraine away from us for the sake of "parkha...m"? Or maybe it should be done differently? Maybe we should help it, show that we are brothers not in words, but in deeds?

[Dmitriy444]

And now it's time for the Bayraktars. Somehow we haven't heard any concerns from the Foreign Ministry. Are we waiting for the certification of SP-2? The Ukrovermakht captured Staromarievka in the gray zone, there are several dozen Russian citizens there, what are they doing with them now? Where are the decisive actions to protect? Why were the passports handed out? It seems the Russian world is not profitable for our businessmen, it doesn't bring in any money.

[riwas]

Russia needs to deliver humanitarian aid to Donbass to combat the drone drone.

[Bshkaus]

Well the projectile went down, no matter how offensive it was, our bombs in Syria did not hit the target so accurately. Another issue is that high accuracy is leveled by a small charge. Where have you seen such a thing that after a direct hit the entire crew would get up, dust themselves off and run away? On the hike, the men are kissed by God: a second "before" it’s intuitive to hear the sound and lie down, it’s still okay, although I certainly wouldn’t have heard it with my ears, but the fact that everyone was covered with a gun is a great luck. Although I am sure that the bottom was raised from one place to everyone, and it is not known what the consequences will be: the chicken from the shock also does not immediately understand that it is left without a head. Barotrauma and contusion of the brain (cantusia), and possibly damage to internal organs, are not excluded despite the vigorous work of the calf muscles after the explosion. In any case, we have all witnessed a new reality, you can be as brave as you like, but bayraktar is a serious threat that must be reckoned with and counteracted.

[Momento]

lucky that the ammunition did not get. well, or he has already been shot.

[kitpit]

To this and everything went. Vova will keep silent and chew snot, Mead will express his concern, and Skr will also get excited. This is where it all ends.

[V means B]

The TFR has already become excited, only this makes it no easier for anyone, and how many such excitements there were.

[Ural resident]

So where are the red lines? Loud statements: "if you twitch, you will lose statehood" Well, did they twitch? ... Again, we will stand behind the backs of women and children ?. There, Russian citizens are already being killed and taken hostage! I'm not even sure if they will remember about the red lines if Bandera torchlight processions and hostage-taking are organized on Red Square? Now our authorities are apparently more concerned about the conclusion of new contracts for the transit of gas through Ukraine.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

It doesn't matter if it hits it doesn't hit it, if it doesn't hit it will hit it in another case.

Russia must provide air defense of Donbass in all possible ways.

There should be complete control of the airspace, and as soon as this happens, the fighters should instantly remove all Bayraktars from the sky.

And do not give a damn about everything that the Banderaites from Ukraine will then squeal, they deny everything.

But Bayraktars must be destroyed. Otherwise, there will be trouble, fear binds the fighters of the LDNR militia in front of the enemy to which they will be unable to oppose anything.

[steppe wolf]

There should be complete control of the airspace, and as soon as this happens, the fighters should instantly remove all Bayraktars from the sky.

That's right, with fighters! And to remove these Bayraktars from the sky, we need to use supersonic Tu-22M missile-carrying bombers

[Kostadinov]

The howitzer is damaged in the worst case, and at the rate everyone lay down and then moved very quickly.

[EugenPin]

Video who is interested https://kapwi.ng/c/ImIQB60Zuy

[Kostadinov]

Vyivod - Bayraktar is not so dangerous for the infantry.

[Vadim237]

For the infantry, it is even more dangerous - in any trench or dugout with great accuracy it will plant a rocket or bomb.

[Souchastnik]

Politics is politics, but I want to dream up.
They lifted Bayraktar, and he sat down in the DPR, lifted the second - he again sat down where necessary.
Or they will stop using them, or they can all then be exchanged for Scythian gold

[mitroha]

Quote: Bshkaus

our bombs in Syria did not hit the target so accurately.

Balabol you are noble
Firstly, they did not get anywhere at all, neither in the howitzer, nor in the calculation. Just a finger on your tail.
And secondly, you tracked all our aerial bombs, and did not hit the target?

[GAndr]

I've noticed an extremely unpleasant trend, namely, a literal dominance, especially recently, of forelock-haired jerks on VO. Moreover, the disgusting cowards, for the most part, sit quietly and only "minus", ahaha...
And I'm not aware of these minusers from the land of eternal dreams that I personally spit on their minus and grind ...
Another sad thing is that disgusting offspring can spoil the mood for other normal, but more impressionable people.
A question to the editorial board of VO, but is it possible to do something like scum from the pages of VO? Well, at least dust, as our grandfathers did, ahaha

[Petio]

They used, according to their information, a lighter MAM-C ammunition with a mass of 6.8 kg and not the main MAM-L with a mass of 22 kg corresponding to the Russian KAB-20S

[Momento]

then they were on duty. it would have been planned to beat mum

[farm2009]

What air defense and protection everyone writes about in the comments. What nonsense! Aggression and initiative always win, not defense (with the exception of World War 1). Do you think Ukraine is scared to lose an uav? No, only an intimidation action against the Ukrainian Armed Forces will help. All that is happening now is solely because we stopped attacking and gave up the initiative.

[megadeth]

Gentlemen, for whom they voted and got it !!! Glory EP !!!!!!!!!

[VORON538]

Do you think Ukrainians would have lived better under Zhirinovsky? :)))

[megadeth]

And we have that noooooooooooo !!!! A shame!!!

[Vadim237]

We have Orion already in service and a much cooler UAV Hunter is undergoing state tests.

[megadeth]

Where is it...........?????????. How many units have been put into service.......?????? Everything in 2, 3 copies, and there is a big question about the effectiveness and armament, range, altitude, flight time... and boasting!!??

[sen]

The bombing is serious. To protect the Russian civilian population in Donbas, Russia must supply at least Torahs.

[TerraSandera]

The issue of countering the use of Bayriks did not arise now, but immediately, during the successful Karabakh operation of Azerbaijan. But in Karabakh there was at least something, and it could have been there, semi-officially. But in Donbass, officially, there can be no Tors, Pantsirs, and even more so Buks. "They are not there" works with people and equipment that was in service with Ukraine. ("The militias took it away"). Therefore, the problem is very serious, but what has been done in this direction is unclear. There remains hope for some real action. Because it all looks very sad on the footage. And this is a complete loss of face for us, if we cannot stop or suppress them at the first stage. One plus, Ukraine cannot yet buy them in large quantities, but if everything goes well, then they will not even be given loans, for the sake of a "good cause".

[Moskovit]

I hope strong miner's hands have already taken a shovel and are digging out the forgotten Thor or Shell from the waste heaps. Or maybe they will be supplied with these complexes by friendly Abkhazia. I do not think that the management will calmly look at the exploits of the Ukrainian operators.

[Momento]

here the aviation must be dug out. well, at least a moment-29. these will cope with the baikatars.

[megadeth]

Yak 130 and a drunken cadet at the helm ...

[syndicalist]

Strange video. Everyone saw how the bairaktors worked in Karabakh. Their main armament is an analogue of Hellfire. Usually, there was not even ash left from the calculation of the gun. And then everyone ran away as if nothing had happened. And no special traces are visible either. This is strange.

[Vadim237]

Probably because Bayraktars worked with such bombs there

and here the APU used a mini rocket from Bayraktarov

[Momento]

Baikatar has 2 types of ammunition. heavy - it is used for a planned mission and easy for patrolling. this time it was easy.

[Hindu]

Quote: GAndr

I'm wondering, they spit in our face, they stole the gold, now here's a drone ... How much can you wipe off? that's really not enough evil.
Why has not an unknown missile arrived yet, and believe the airfield where these drones are based has not been destroyed?
Honestly, I hate to have such a toothless power ...

Because the planid is like that, to know your place and not to speak too much, especially in front of "partners". This is not America for you: they've put a guided missile in the window to the Iranian general and hello.
And then they commented: yes, this is us, yes, our rocket, but this was done because it is in the interests of our country ...
Ours, no matter what happens, is a continuous series of confused excuses in an apologetic tone: no, well, what ... we asked them ... they are the first ... well, if ... and in general it is not us and we weren't there ...

[spectr]

Perhaps this is the outcome of the negotiations between Putin and Erdogan. In Syria, he jumped at his soldiers, he decided to plant ammunition in Ukraine.

[gridasov]

The emergence of new UAVs on the sites of military conflicts, and especially the one in question, should stimulate methods and techniques for neutralizing such low-speed and poorly maneuverable aerial targets.

[Witness 45]

Snottiness on our part will end badly for us, it was high time to recognize the LPR and DPR as independent state entities, like South Ossetia, but we are still playing the good game, and all for the sake of the interests of our oligarchs, who don’t give a damn about the national interests of Russia.

[Borisych]

Everything is expected here. And there is a precedent. The APU (not to confuse these gangs with the armed forces) tried a flying Turk. Flies, shoots. Now it's up to the answer. We are waiting, sir.

[Lucy]

Everything is clear with the drone. It is interesting to see the coordinates of the howitzer position, with reference to the Minsk agreements.