How the legend of Richard Sorge was used against Stalin

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How the legend of Richard Sorge was used against Stalin
Richard Sorge, 1940

In liberal Russia, a myth was created that the outstanding Soviet intelligence agent Richard Sorge infiltrated the militarist elite of Japan, revealed the plans of Hitler and his allies. He informed Moscow that the Third Reich was preparing an attack on the USSR, and even gave the time of the attack. But they did not listen to the reports of the intelligence officer, and when he was captured, Stalin did not save him from execution, although he had such an opportunity.

Falsification of Khrushchev


In fact, this false version was created by Nikita Khrushchev, who tried with all his might to discredit, denigrate Stalin (Betrayal of the USSR. Perestroika Khrushchev; How a brave jackal bit a dead lion).



Under him, it was claimed that Richard Sorge reported on the attack of Nazi Germany on June 22, 1941 in three strategic directions. Naturally, the same topic was raised and tried to develop in the post-Soviet Russian Federation, where the liberal pro-Western intelligentsia prevails in the media, and especially on TV.

So, in 2017, the Russian television series "Sorge", directed by Sergei Ginzburg, was filmed. The role of Richard Sorge was played by Alexander Domogarov. The premiere of the film took place in 2019 on Channel One.

The plot of the film has little to do with historical true. This is generally a feature of the "historical" films of Russian cinema. They especially like to throw mud at the Soviet period of Russian history. In the series, it was agreed that Sorge got the Barbarossa plan from the safe of the German ambassador to Tokyo.

What Ramsay said


The first important information about the German attack on the USSR came from a resident of Soviet intelligence in Japan, who was hiding under the guise of a reporter for influential German newspapers.

On April 11, 1941, Sorge announced that Germany had completed preparations for a war with the USSR, and it could begin at any time. However, the German ambassador received a telegram from Ribbentrop, which said that "Germany will not start a war against the USSR if it is not provoked by the Soviet Union." Also in Germany there is a strong party of the war with the Russians, but it has not yet taken up.

On April 13, 1941, the USSR and Japan signed a neutrality pact. But Moscow was not sure that Tokyo would abide by the agreement in the event of a German attack on the USSR. Therefore, the intelligence department of the General Staff assigned Ramsay the task of monitoring Japan's foreign policy and military activities. Moscow hoped that, having temporarily closed the issue with Russia, the Japanese would focus their efforts on the south to end the war with China and begin a confrontation with Britain and the United States. Therefore, there will be no major provocations on the Soviet border.

Regarding the reaction of the Japanese government to the conclusion of a pact on neutrality, Sorge in a report dated April 16, 1941, reported that Tokyo was "extremely pleased with the conclusion of the pact." The Japanese military-political leadership was now focused on winning the war in China and resolving conflicts with the United States and Britain in the Asia-Pacific region. It was noted that if England continues to suffer defeats from Germany, then the question of the capture of Singapore will arise.

On April 18, 1941, a Soviet intelligence officer noted that the ambassador of Nazi Germany to Japan, Eugen Ott, had influence over the head of the Japanese government, Konoe and other Japanese dignitaries, and could raise the question of Singapore, pushing the Japanese towards expansion in the south. In turn, Sorge was an adviser to Ott, influenced him. He noted that he can encourage the German ambassador to put pressure on Tokyo on the Singapore issue.

However, Moscow rejected this proposal, although it was logical. Ramsay was instructed to continue to collect information about specific events in Tokyo, about the movement of troops, and it is not his task to influence Japanese policy.

Therefore, the version that the Russians pushed Japan to war with Britain and the United States has no basis.

Inconsistency of news


On May 2, 1941, Sorge reported to Moscow that he had spoken with Otto and the naval attaché about the relationship between Germany and Russia. Otto said that Hitler wanted to defeat the USSR and seize the European part of Russia, turning it into a raw material base for the Reich. Therefore, the end of sowing in Russia is important so that the Germans can seize the crop, and negotiations between Germany and Turkey. The German generals are confident that the war with England will not prevent an invasion in the East. The Germans assess the Red Army's combat effectiveness very low and are confident in a blitzkrieg, victory in a few weeks. The decision to start the war will be made by the Fuhrer "either already in May, or after the war with England."

Thus, it is obvious that this report (as well as subsequent ones) did not contain the exact date of the German attack on the USSR.

The report was contradictory.

The possibility of the outbreak of war in May or after the end of the war between Germany and England was admitted.

Was it possible to draw final conclusions on the basis of such data?

Of course not!

Is the Soviet intelligence agent to blame for this?

Also no.

He simply passed on the information he was getting. And it was difficult to draw conclusions. After all, news of the war came to the center and from other channels. From the British government interested in the Soviet-German war. From other intelligence officers, diplomats, just well-wishers. Among this information, there was a lot of misinformation, inaccurate and contradictory data. For example, the intelligence network "Red Chapel" reported that the Hitlerite Reich was attacking the USSR on April 15, May 1, May 15, May 20, etc. Erroneous data was transmitted by W. Churchill. The Nazis themselves tried to deceive Moscow, they launched false information.

On May 19, 1941, Sorge again transmitted conflicting information.

The new German diplomats announced that the war could start at the end of May. But they also said that "this year, the danger may pass." On the same day, the intelligence officer informed Moscow that at the beginning of the war of Germany against Russia, Japan would observe neutrality. But if the Russians are defeated, Japan will hit Vladivostok. The Japanese and the Germans are monitoring the movement of Soviet forces from east to west.

On May 30, the scout reported to Moscow: Ott received news from Berlin that the war would begin in the second half of June. June 1: The military attaché in Bangkok, Lt. Col. Sholl, announced that the war is expected around June 15. June 15: The war is delayed, probably until the end of June. "The military attaché does not know whether there will be a war or not." June 20: Ott said war is imminent. The Germans are confident in their military superiority. In addition, the strategic defensive lines of the USSR are still not ready. June 21: The war is delayed until the end of June.

As a result, Ramsay did not disclose the date of the German attack on the USSR, as well as the details of the Barbarossa plan. The information from his sources was not distinguished by certainty: either war was inevitable, then it was postponed. Richard Sorge announced several dates of a possible German attack, but they were not confirmed.

It is also worth remembering that Moscow received information from Tokyo and other sources. For example, Soviet intelligence intercepted a telegram from the military attaché of the French embassy (Vichy regime) in Japan, who reported:

“Again there are persistent rumors about an imminent German attack on Russia. Many Japanese diplomats, known for their restraint, make it clear that some events, the consequences of which will be very important for a future war, will occur around June 20, 1941. "

Here the term is indicated close to the correct one, but again it is noted that we are talking either about an attack on England or on Russia.

Therefore, Moscow, like other capitals, for example, Tokyo, did not know until the very last moment whether and when there would be a war. Hitler concealed this information even from his closest allies. Up to June 21, 1941, conflicting, various information was received, which gave hope that the attack would be postponed, or it would not be at all, it could be prevented.

It is also understandable that Stalin understood that war was possible, including a sudden one.

There was no "gullibility and naivety", as the destalinizers assured, in the Soviet leader. The entire power was feverishly preparing for a big war. The Red Army was rapidly changing. New fortified areas were built. New divisions were formed, hundreds of new ones entered the army tanks, aircraft and guns. New models of military equipment were created, weapons.

Therefore, the Kremlin was playing for time with all its might, trying to postpone the outbreak of the war.

Arrest and execution


After the German invasion on June 22, 1941, information on how the Japanese Empire would act in this situation was vital for Moscow.

On September 14, 1941, Sorge reported that at a meeting with the Japanese emperor (September 6), it was decided that until the end of 1941 and at the beginning of 1942, Japan would not oppose the USSR. Japan was expected to enter the war with the USSR in the spring of 1942. This saved Moscow from expecting a war on two fronts. Allowed to free up part of the forces and resources in the east, in order to transfer to the western, German front.

On October 18, 1941, the Sorge group was captured by Japanese counterintelligence.

During the searches, the Japanese found documents that testified to the espionage activities of the arrested. Also, members of the group, including Sorge, began to testify. In May, the inquiry was completed. Before the trial, the defendants were subjected to repeated interrogations for six months, now a judicial investigation was underway.

Court hearings began in May 1943, and the main defendants were sentenced in September. Sorge and Ozaki (Japanese journalist, adviser to Prime Minister Konoe) were sentenced to death by hanging, Vukelich and Clausen to life in prison. Miyagi (Japanese artist, communist) died in prison before sentencing.

Richard Sorge was executed in Tokyo's Sugamo prison on November 7, 1944, after which Ozaki was also executed.

The exchange myth


Under Khrushchev, the invention was launched that Moscow could save Sorge by exchanging him for Japanese prisoners. But Stalin allegedly took offense at the intelligence officer who confessed that he was a Soviet agent and refused to do so. In addition, Stalin allegedly wanted to destroy the witness of his mistakes. They say that the intelligence officers warned the Kremlin about the start of the war with Germany, but he did not trust them and slapped the German attack. This led to a catastrophic development of events in the initial period of the Great Patriotic War.

However, neither the USSR nor Japan has found documentary evidence that would confirm this myth.

The beginning of this legend was laid by the Soviet intelligence officer Leopold Trepper. In his memoirs, he said that after the war, while he was in the Lubyanka prison, he was told by his cellmate, General Tominaga Kyoji, that the Japanese offered to exchange Sorge for the Soviet leader, which Stalin did not agree to. The Japanese applied to the Soviet embassy three times with an offer of exchange, but there they replied that they did not know Sorge.

The very story of Trepper is highly dubious and is not confirmed by other sources.

There is no evidence that the exchange of the Soviet intelligence officer was approved by the Japanese government; there are no witnesses from the Japanese and Soviet Foreign Ministries regarding such appeals; there is no evidence from representatives of special services, intelligence services.

Japanese society was quite open, they did not know how to keep secrets. This was noticed by Richard Sorge himself. That is, in Japan, information would have been preserved about the allegedly three-fold appeal to the USSR for exchange.

In addition, the Americans captured many high-ranking Japanese, fished out important information from them. Moreover, the case of the Sorge group after the war was dealt with by a special commission of the US Congress. The Americans in the Cold War would gladly use such a fact against the country of the Soviets. But apart from Trepper's story, there is nothing.

Trepper is also lying on another issue: that Sorge's reports “had not been deciphered for months,” until the moment when it became clear that they were priceless. However, this is not true.

Reports from Japan were deciphered in a timely manner and were immediately reported to the very top, right up to Stalin. It is also obvious that Trepper, after his conviction in the USSR, fiercely hated Stalin, as can be seen from his memoirs. Therefore, in the atmosphere of the 60s, he could simply invent this story, or greatly embellish it, distort it in his personal interests. Fortunately, under Khrushchev, various attacks against Stalin were encouraged.

Thus, the history of Sorge under Khrushchev began to be used to denigrate Stalin.

After the collapse of the USSR, various anti-Stalinist myths were again used to discredit the Soviet Union and Stalin personally. Thus, the black myth about the "hated Sorge" Stalin began to move from one "study" to another.


Postage stamp of the USSR, 1965
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  1. +4
    27 October 2021 06: 04
    Japan was expected to enter the war with the USSR in the spring of 1942.

    Why would Japan attack the sparsely populated regions of the USSR, when the South had everything that Japan needed - ferrous and non-ferrous metal ores, rubber, rice, and most importantly - oil. Plus excellent infrastructure - ports and roads built by European colonialists ...
    1. +12
      27 October 2021 06: 24
      By the way, in 2000 (not so long ago) the "native" wife of Richard Sorge died in Japan. She wrote a book about her relationship with the intelligence officer, but it has not yet been translated into Russian ... She found the names with her savings where Zorge was buried, exhumed, identified, and then cremated his body and kept the ashes with her for a long time. did not save money for a place in the cemetery ... the USSR paid her a certain amount of money, such as a pension, but for history a woman was not needed. When the whole world found out about Richard Sorge, Maximova was made his wife, and they simply forgot about the Japanese woman ...
      1. +19
        27 October 2021 07: 04
        Photo: Hanako Ishii, the last de facto wife of Richard Sorge, who received a pension from the USSR as the widow of a Soviet intelligence officer.
        Photo: The first monument at the grave of Richard Sorge, to which his ashes were transferred in 1950 by the efforts of Hanako Ishii.
        Photo: Modern view of the monument at the grave of Richard Sorge at the Tomi cemetery in Tokyo. An urn with the ashes of Hanako Ishii is hidden under the wreath in the foreground.
        1. +7
          27 October 2021 08: 00
          Great article. I will stand up for both Stalin and Sorge. Sorge was one "of the many sources", Stalin was guided by all and most of them did not convey the exact date. Well, maybe the deserters on June 20-21, 1941, but there were also different dates from the very beginning.
          Sorge fulfilled his main task, reported Japan's plans. And they turned out to be reliable.
    2. +3
      27 October 2021 09: 14
      Quote: Xlor
      Japan was expected to enter the war with the USSR in the spring of 1942.

      Why would Japan attack the sparsely populated regions of the USSR, when the South had everything that Japan needed - ferrous and non-ferrous metal ores, rubber, rice, and most importantly - oil. Plus excellent infrastructure - ports and roads built by European colonialists ...

      And what then did the Japanese invaders in Rossmm do during the intervention and the civil war?
      Much has been written about Japan's PLANS to seize Siberia and the Far East during the Soviet period. Read on.
      1. -1
        27 October 2021 11: 48
        And what then did the Japanese invaders in Rossmm do during the intervention and the civil war?
        Much has been written about Japan's PLANS to seize Siberia and the Far East during the Soviet period. Read

        You should read what they did there too. A lot to read ...
        1. +5
          27 October 2021 21: 04
          Quote: Xlor
          And what then did the Japanese invaders in Rossmm do during the intervention and the civil war?
          Much has been written about Japan's PLANS to seize Siberia and the Far East during the Soviet period. Read

          You should read what they did there too. A lot to read ...

          Thanks. I'll take note. I, though a very long time ago, read the book by P.P. Sevostyanov "Before the Great Test", published in 1981. It has not lost its value as a source of information even now. In it, the author described the relations of the Soviet Union with all neighboring countries, from Finland to Japan. I strongly advise you to read it.
          So, Japan was not only dangerous in itself. No less, if not more, the policy of the United States and the World Bank, which pushed Japan against our country, was dangerous. The British so that the Japanese could not threaten their colonies in Asia. And the United States - to bleed and exhaust the rival in the hilling of the Asia-Pacific region. Exactly the same game as in Europe.
          This page of history is not known to the general public, since the war with Japan did not happen.
          But at that time, passions were in full swing.
          The book is on militera.lib.ru
      2. +3
        27 October 2021 12: 23
        Quote: Sergey-1950
        And what then did the Japanese invaders in Rossmm do during the intervention and the civil war?

        They shared what they thought was the legacy of a dead state. They did not want to fight seriously for these lands - which was shown by the further development of events.
        Quote: Sergey-1950
        Much has been written about Japan's PLANS to seize Siberia and the Far East during the Soviet period. Read on.

        It would be strange if these plans did not exist. The Kwantung people, even in the Metropolis, were still considered those scumbags.
        Fortunately for us, the financial and industrial allies of the Japanese army groups knew how to count. And after Manchuria, which gave at least some profit only in the late 30s, before that being a financial black hole, these zaibatsu looked at the Siberian prospects very wary. Moreover, the Soviet Far East did not develop anything that was no longer in Manchuria. And most importantly, there was no commercial quantities of oil on Soviet territory. All Sakhalin fields (half of which in the Soviet northern part were already developed by the Japanese) produced as much oil in a year as the Japanese fleet consumed in just a couple of months.
        The General Staff of the IJA adhered to a similar point of view. It was believed there that without a serious weakening of the USSR, a big war with it in the Far East was hopeless (and even dangerous in terms of possible raids by the Soviet DA on the Metropolis) - and indeed, coercion of China is more important. The Kvatun people, of course, thought differently - but who will listen to them? smile
    3. +4
      27 October 2021 12: 06
      Quote: Xlor
      Japan was expected to enter the war with the USSR in the spring of 1942.

      Why would Japan attack the sparsely populated regions of the USSR, when the South had everything that Japan needed - ferrous and non-ferrous metal ores, rubber, rice, and most importantly - oil. Plus excellent infrastructure - ports and roads built by European colonialists ...

      And really why? But for some reason, in the 18th, when an opportunity arose, they brought in troops and, according to their plans, wanted to take the entire Far East for themselves.
    4. +2
      29 October 2021 13: 58
      Why would Japan attack the sparsely populated areas of the USSR?


      And why did they stare into our country when the GW was going on?
      They did not refuse half of Sakhalin - they would have taken the whole of Sakhalin.
      Sparsely populated areas? Great, less colonization problems. Not only Germany had problems (in the opinion of the then elite) with "living space".
    5. 0
      12 November 2021 07: 28
      "Why would Japan attack the sparsely populated regions of the USSR, when the South had everything that Japan needed - ferrous and non-ferrous metal ores, rubber, rice, and most importantly - oil. Plus excellent infrastructure - ports and roads built by European colonialists ... "
      It is worth doubting about oil, as well as about other resources - the main part was explored after WWII. And to attack - then, why and in 1905.
  2. +7
    27 October 2021 06: 24
    It is also understandable that Stalin understood that war was possible, including a sudden one.

    There was no "gullibility and naivety", as the destalinizers assured, in the Soviet leader. The entire power was feverishly preparing for a big war. The Red Army was rapidly changing. New fortified areas were built. New divisions were formed, hundreds of new tanks, aircraft and guns entered the army. New models of military equipment and weapons were created.

    Therefore, the Kremlin was playing for time with all its might, trying to postpone the outbreak of the war.
    1. +8
      27 October 2021 16: 59
      Quote: Olgovich
      The entire power was feverishly preparing for a big war. The Red Army was rapidly changing. New fortified areas were built. New divisions were formed, hundreds of new tanks, aircraft and guns entered the army. New models of military equipment and weapons were created.
      Olgovich, is it you? Or was the account taken away?
      1. -5
        28 October 2021 08: 30
        Quote: bk0010
        Olgovich, is it you? Or was the account taken away?

        not me: this is an excerpt from an article that I tried to comment on.

        At the same time, the passage remained, but the commentary did not.

        Delete-also failed.

        So we got such a squiggle.

        And the meaning was as follows: NOT ONE action by the leadership of the USSR delayed the Second World War not for a secondon the contrary, the non-mobilization and non-readiness of the armed forces only provoked an earlier attack.
  3. +10
    27 October 2021 06: 26
    In Kazan this year, on the occasion of the 126th anniversary of the birth of Richard Gustavovich Sorge, a memorial plaque was installed with a mistake in the patronymic of a Soviet intelligence officer. There are two troubles in Russia, one of which has worked here.
  4. +7
    27 October 2021 06: 38
    Therefore, Moscow, like other capitals, for example, Tokyo, did not know until the very last moment whether and when there would be a war. Hitler concealed this information even from his closest allies.

    I will say more. Hitler himself did not know this date. wink
    1. -2
      27 October 2021 13: 11
      Quote: Arzt
      I will say more. Hitler himself did not know this date.

      Hitler has already set the exact date on June 10, because Halder's directive with the date of June 22 went to the troops:
      ON THE APPOINTMENT OF THE TIME OF THE ATTACK ON THE SOVIET UNION June 10, 1941
      On the basis of the proposal submitted by the High Command of the Ground Forces, the Supreme High Command of the Armed Forces appointed the following dates for preparation for military operations:
      1. Day "D" Operation "Barbarossa" is proposed to be considered June 22.
      2. In case of postponement of this period, the relevant the decision will be made no later than June 18th. The data on the direction of the main attack will remain secret in this case.
      3. At 13.00 on June 21, one of the following two signals will be transmitted to the troops:
      a) signal "Dortmund". It means that the offensive will begin on June 22 as planned and that orders can be openly executed;
      b) signal "Altona". It means that the offensive is postponed to another date; but in this case it will already be necessary to fully disclose the objectives of the concentration of German troops, since the latter will already be in full combat readiness.
      4. June 22, 3:30: Ground Forces Offensive Begins and the flight of aviation across the border. If the meteorological conditions delay the departure of the aircraft, the ground forces will begin the offensive on their own.

      At least after June 18, all the top military leadership of Germany already knew that the date of the attack would not be postponed, but could only be canceled. That is why Soviet intelligence had very little time, or rather no more than three days, to understand whether an attack would take place or not. Naturally, even the ambassador in Tokyo did not know about this date, which is why Sorge could not indicate it in his reports, but could only predict, based on the rumors he received at the embassy.
      1. +3
        27 October 2021 19: 32
        In short, in order to know the most accurate date, which this time will certainly not be postponed 100500 times, it was not a journalist in Japan that was needed, but at least a recruited Halder.
        1. 0
          27 October 2021 19: 55
          Quote: ecolog
          What was needed was not a journalist in Japan, but at least a recruited Halder.

          Quite right, some people just do not understand this, and are participating in meaningless disputes about whether the reconnaissance slept or not the concentration of German troops and why the exact date of the attack was not indicated. But only the highest military leaders of Germany knew this date, and to think that which of them worked for our intelligence is simply naive. It is quite obvious to any military specialist that the very fact of concentrating such a number of divisions, as indicated in intelligence report No. 5, in itself is a reason to wait for an attack at any moment, and to strengthen reconnaissance over the state of the Wehrmacht's radio alert networks in the districts.
      2. 0
        30 October 2021 02: 38
        The question of the date and possibilities of R. Zorge was described in detail by M. Solonin, for example. in the book "Brain Name":
        On December 18, 1940, Hitler approved Directive No. 21 ("Barbarossa Plan"). The directive began with these words: "The German armed forces must be ready to defeat Soviet Russia in a short campaign even before the war against England is over." Must be ready. Then it was said: “I will give the order on the strategic deployment of the armed forces against the Soviet Union in case of need (underlined by me. - MS) eight weeks before the scheduled start of operations. " No specific dates for the start of the war were set in the "Barbarossa plan". The document was printed in nine copies, six of which lay in Hitler's safe until the end of the war, three were issued by the commander-in-chief of the services of the Armed Forces.

        The secrecy requirements were usual for this kind of documents, that is, extremely stringent. In the last lines of Directive No. 21 it was said: “I expect from the gentlemen the commanders-in-chief oral (underlined by me. - MS) reports on their further intentions based on this Directive. " Did the "gentlemen commanders" really report to Hitler orally, face to face, and sent written documents to the German ambassador in Tokyo (who had nothing to do with the development of operational plans at all)? And most importantly - why? For the convenience of Richard Sorge's work? Not only in December 40, but also in the last days and weeks before the start of the war, Ramsay could not tell Moscow anything more definite than a retelling of rumors circulating in the embassy.


        The fateful date of the beginning of the invasion (June 22) was set by Hitler and brought to the attention of the Wehrmacht High Command only on April 30, 1941. Until that date, no "sources" could in principle tell Stalin this, the most important, Hitler's secret - simply because Hitler did not yet know when he would start a war against the USSR. Moreover - and this is extremely important to note - on April 30, the "point of no return" was not passed at all. Today we know that the date of June 22 was the day of the real start of the war. In May 41, everything could still change many times. It is believed that the date of the beginning of the invasion of France, Hitler postponed a total of 9 times ...

        On May 23, the German railways were switched to the "maximum military transport" regime. This is a very important “milestone” in the overall complex of measures for strategic deployment, and, as far as I know, it was just something that was not identified by Soviet intelligence. Finally, on June 10, the High Command of the Wehrmacht brought to the attention of the army commanders ... the exact date


        Well, spreading rumors and disinformation is a common thing to accompany such grandiose undertakings.
        1. -1
          30 October 2021 11: 57
          Quote: Weddinger
          The question of the date and possibilities of R. Zorge was described in detail by M. Solonin, for example. in the book "Brain Name":

          I agree with this conclusion of Solonin, although as a military historian I do not take him seriously. But this does not diminish the role of Sorge's information - no matter what they say, but the personal information of the ambassador could be broader than what he received officially from Berlin.
          Quote: Weddinger
          On May 23, the German railways were switched to the "maximum military transport" regime. This is a very important “milestone” in the overall complex of measures for strategic deployment, and, as far as I know, it was just something that was not identified by Soviet intelligence.

          I disagree with this - even the operational reconnaissance of the border districts has recorded an increase in the number of traffic by rail since April 15, so if it was indicated that new formations arrived to the border from Germany, then it is obvious that they did not go on their own.
          Quote: Weddinger
          Well, spreading rumors and disinformation is a common thing to accompany such grandiose undertakings.
          With these I agree - since February 1941, directives have been in force for organizing disinformation work.
  5. +3
    27 October 2021 06: 53
    Japanese society was quite open, they did not know how to keep secrets.

    laughing laughing laughing
    The guys at Pearl Harbor disagree!
    The descendants of the ninja built the largest battleship in the world in such a way that no one would recognize.
    1. +3
      27 October 2021 07: 43
      True, there was no sense from this battleship. laughing
      1. +3
        27 October 2021 08: 08
        So we have the Tsar Cannon and the Tsar Bell, and Japanese shipbuilders "piled" the Tsar Battleship hi
      2. +1
        27 October 2021 13: 44
        Quote: Sea Cat
        True, there was no sense from this battleship

        As Aunt Sarah answered the question "Why do Jews circumcise?" - Well, first of all, it's beautiful! ...


        ))
        1. +3
          27 October 2021 17: 03
          Well, first of all, it's beautiful! ...
          there is a Japanese saying - "There are three majestic, but useless things in the world - the Egyptian pyramids, Mount Fuji and the battleship Yamato" laughing
          1. 0
            27 October 2021 17: 07
            Quote: Region-25.rus
            There are three majestic but useless things in the world - the Egyptian pyramids, Mount Fuji and the battleship Yamato

            But he is handsome, you bastard!
            1. +4
              27 October 2021 18: 16
              But he is handsome, you bastard!
              I will not argue. In my opinion, the most beautiful warships were made by the Japanese and Italians. Especially the second. About Japanese cruisers there was an expression - "Speed ​​cast in metal". Even our leader "Tashkent" ....... alas, comes from Italy. Fact.
              1. +2
                27 October 2021 19: 20
                Quote: Region-25.rus
                In my opinion, the most beautiful warships were made by the Japanese and Italians.

                Well, I don’t know ..... Bismarck-Tirpitz is great. But in general -
                There is nothing more beautiful than a sailboat and a submarine!

                as the Old Man told Lieutenant Werner (Das Boot)
                ))
                1. +3
                  27 October 2021 20: 28
                  Bismarck-Tirpitz is great
                  Well, there is a special, Teutonic beauty (with which again I agree) but in terms of aesthetics as such ....))) A matter of taste in general. But what I wrote about the Italians (the legislators of world design) and the Japanese ... kind of world recognition. And I agree with this recognition! But Japanese people like it more))
                  1. +2
                    27 October 2021 21: 27
                    Quote: Region-25.rus
                    A matter of taste in general.

                    Well, judging by the cons to our comments - someone has their own point of view. It is apparently very unpatriotic to admire the aesthetics of Axis ships. Here they keep an eye on it laughing
                    1. +4
                      27 October 2021 21: 49
                      it seems unpatriotic to admire the aesthetics of Axis ships.
                      UrA-patsreoty .. they are. Emotions are ahead of what does not exist in principle - logic and reason)))
                      1. 0
                        27 October 2021 22: 33
                        Quote: Region-25.rus
                        Emotions are ahead of what does not exist in principle - logic and reason)))

                        No, well, that's how I admire the foremast of the Petropavlovsk LK aka Marat, what is there ..... A wonderful example of abstractionism ... And the pipe broken due to the restructuring of the mast is a classic of cubo-futurism.

                        I am not kidding.
                        ))
                      2. +2
                        27 October 2021 22: 48
                        And the pipe broken due to the restructuring of the mast is a classic of cubo-futurism.
                        well-at-at-bat-t-shade ... to the Japanese "Congo" modernized still far away ...)))) the so-called. "pagodas"
                2. +1
                  27 October 2021 21: 53
                  as Old Man told Lieutenant Werner (Das Boot)))
                  By the way, there is a book - the original source. I don't understand who the author is .. but I think it's not a problem to find. Listened to audio at work
                  1. +2
                    27 October 2021 22: 25
                    Quote: Region-25.rus
                    by the way there is a book

                    In fact, Buchheim's "Boat" is one of my so-called desktop ones) The film is gorgeous, but the book is better (my humble opinion). Read (if you do not speak German) - only in a good translation, otherwise you will not take it. I watch the film only in German. This is a canonical thing, no one has ever filmed and will not do better. Although, of course, it was possible to make a remake of "Sharks and Small Fish" based on Ott's "Steel Shark" ... but no, the topic is closed by "Boat". hi
        2. 0
          27 October 2021 17: 19
          Well, first of all, it's beautiful! ...

          And impressive! Cyclopean zilch! laughing
          1. 0
            27 October 2021 18: 04
            ... and left beautifully ...
            1. +1
              27 October 2021 18: 55
              But somehow it did not spread very well.
              1. +3
                27 October 2021 20: 29
                But somehow it did not spread very well.
                Well, "Titanic" also scattered robust enough so)) Still, the diving speed only increases with depth. Moreover, the structure is weakened by damage hi
                1. +2
                  27 October 2021 20: 48
                  And Bismarck and Scharnhorst lie on an even keel)
                  1. +3
                    27 October 2021 21: 08
                    Germans ... They LOVE order! laughing
                    1. 0
                      27 October 2021 21: 17
                      Quote: Sea Cat
                      Germans ... They LOVE order! laughing

                      ))
                      good explanation)
                      1. 0
                        27 October 2021 21: 29
                        YAVOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                  2. +3
                    27 October 2021 21: 51
                    And Bismarck and Scharnhorst lie on an even keel)
                    Well, here hydrodynamics taxis ... In what state it went under the water, how many compartments were flooded, how during submersion the ship resisted the flow of water, what is the depth of flooding, etc.
          2. +3
            27 October 2021 21: 54
            And impressive! Cyclopean zilch!
            I suspect the ammunition cellars and the boilers were rushed ... Or in reverse order)))
    2. +2
      27 October 2021 08: 37
      Quote: Arzt
      The guys at Pearl Harbor disagree!

      Yeah, and cryptographers who broke Japanese codes also twist their fingers to their temples)
    3. +3
      27 October 2021 12: 25
      Quote: Arzt
      The descendants of the ninja built the largest battleship in the world in such a way that no one would recognize.

      And it was their biggest mistake. smile
      For since no one knew that this was the largest LC, then no one was afraid of him.
      1. 0
        27 October 2021 13: 46
        Quote: Alexey RA
        For since no one knew that this was the largest LC, then no one was afraid of him.

        As Crocodile Dundee said in the Hollywood imperishable in the address of one reptile: "Big .... Big, but stupid ..."
      2. +2
        27 October 2021 18: 20
        For since no one knew that this was the largest LC, then no one was afraid of him.
        well, as it were, “Iowa” was just built in opposition to “Yamato” and “Musashi”. Just like that, because they were not afraid)))) Then of course they got scared when they found out that there were 406 against their 460mm))) And despite the American radars, the Japanese still chekhvostyli in artillery battles. Especially at night.
        1. +2
          28 October 2021 11: 33
          Quote: Region-25.rus
          well, as it were, “Iowa” was just built in opposition to “Yamato” and “Musashi”. Just like that, because they were not afraid))))

          If they were built to counterbalance the new Japanese aircraft, the result would be a re-armored SoDak. The Americans, on the other hand, considered that the six previous post-Washingtonians would be enough for them to fend off the new threat (which was considered the same ordinary post-Washingtonians with 16 ") - and fit into the experiment with a" high-speed linear connection ".
          Quote: Region-25.rus
          And despite the American radars, the Japanese nevertheless chekhvostili in artillery battles. Especially at night.

          Nevertheless, just the first night line battle was a success for the Americans, yes ... smile
  6. +9
    27 October 2021 07: 35
    All of today's "reasoning" is wisdom on the stairs. In reality, a huge amount of conflicting information was received. We now know that the attack took place on June 22nd. But they didn’t have a message! How it was possible to decide what was true and what was not, especially since the Germans pulled up tanks and aircraft only at the last moment.
    Note that the attack was originally scheduled for May 15, but the mess in Yugoslavia confused the cards. The decision to postpone the attack to June 22 was made much later.
    Well, even if we imagine that Stalin would have known about June 22, what would it have done so special? The Germans had good intelligence, especially technical, and could well have preempted our deployment. Moreover, surprise did not play such a big role, even in terms of the defeat of our Air Force. Detailed studies show that our main losses at airfields suffered not from the first strike, but from successive raids throughout the day, i.e. when there was no longer any surprise.
    1. -3
      27 October 2021 11: 21
      I don't know what the "detailed studies" show there. Here you can remember where the airfield of the 122nd fighter regiment from the 11th mixed air division of the ZAPOVO was located. By the way, not far from it were the airfields of other regiments of this air division.
      1. +2
        27 October 2021 12: 35
        Quote: Charlie
        Here you can recall where the airfield of the 122nd fighter regiment from the 11th mixed air division of the ZAPOVO was located.

        And where else is the airfield of the air regiment from the air division of the 3rd Army located, if not in the zone of this army?
        Especially - the fighter air regiment on the I-16 and I-15bis with their combat radius of 130-140 km.
        1. 0
          27 October 2021 15: 48
          Well, not 15 kilometers from the state border. The regiment was armed with I-16 fighters. The I-153bis was not there.
          1. +2
            27 October 2021 18: 09
            Quote: Charlie
            Well, not 15 kilometers from the state border.

            And nowhere else. As I understand it, the new airfields of the Lida air hub for Garden 11 were still under construction, and the existing airfield in Lida was under repair.
            Quote: Charlie
            The regiment was armed with I-16 fighters. The I-153bis was not there.

            I took according to Maslov - he had 122 IAPs listed in the list of regiments that had I-01.06.1941bis on 15/XNUMX/XNUMX.
            1. -2
              27 October 2021 20: 14
              Yes, nowhere else. It was necessary to fly to the west, and not to the east
              1. +1
                28 October 2021 11: 43
                Quote: Charlie
                Yes, nowhere else. It was necessary to fly to the west, and not to the east

                Once again: these are fighters. With a combat radius of 130-140 km.
                You must remember crying of Yaroslavna the ZOVO command in the "cover plan": to solve the first and main task of the district air force in defense - to defeat enemy aircraft and gain air supremacy - fighters do not have enough radius to cover bombers operating at enemy airfields.
  7. +6
    27 October 2021 07: 40
    In the series, it was agreed that Sorge got the Barbarossa plan from the safe of the German ambassador to Tokyo.

    Why the hell did the German ambassador in Tokyo need this plan? Nonsense. wassat
    1. +9
      27 October 2021 08: 07
      Quote: Sea Cat
      In the series, it was agreed that Sorge got the Barbarossa plan from the safe of the German ambassador to Tokyo.

      Why the hell did the German ambassador in Tokyo need this plan? Nonsense. wassat

      This characterizes well the "historicity" of contemporary Russian serials. It seems that the writers and directors are utterly stupid people.
      1. +1
        27 October 2021 08: 23
        This characterizes well the "historicity" of contemporary Russian serials. It seems that the writers and directors are utterly stupid people.

        They, the "smart" ones, are carrying out another political order - to spoil the Soviet past. Then the other will be executed, if paid, with the same enthusiasm. And it used to be so - the text of letters from comrade Sukhov to Katerina Matveyevna in the film "White Sun of the Desert" was written by the famous figure Marek Zakharov (Shirinkin).
        1. +1
          27 October 2021 16: 48
          And it used to be so - the text of letters from comrade Sukhov to Katerina Matveyevna in the film "White Sun of the Desert" was written by the famous figure Marek Zakharov (Shirinkin).

          And what does their text do not suit you, what is sedition?
          1. +2
            27 October 2021 18: 11
            The fact is that Marek Shirinkin will write talentedly about anything if he is given the amount in shekels. I think he could describe the deep inner world of Chikatillo no less highly artistically, if he was paid for it.
            1. +1
              27 October 2021 18: 51
              I don't see anything wrong with selling his talent. request
              1. +2
                27 October 2021 19: 05
                I don't see anything wrong with selling his talent.

                Is that so? As a result, he will receive both on the left and on the right, it will not seem a little. This is called unscrupulousness, a typical lackey property - "what do you want?"
                1. 0
                  27 October 2021 19: 19
                  Is it more honest to write on request? Is that why Fadeev shot himself?
                  1. +2
                    27 October 2021 19: 32
                    Here Marek was commissioned all his life and wrote, what has "more honest" to do with it. And what does Fadeev have to do with it?
                    1. +1
                      27 October 2021 19: 45
                      Quote: Aviator_
                      Here is Marek commissioned all his life and wrote

                      And what kind of work of Zakharov do you have a complaint about? I am not immersed in his work - I have only been to Lenkom a couple of times. And, of course, his hits.
                      1. +2
                        27 October 2021 19: 56
                        I have complaints to Marek about his demonstrative burning of his party card on camera, when it became profitable, and pushing his mediocre daughter everywhere, and so - a typical opportunist. In fact, he did not learn how to shoot cinema, his films are theatrical performances, and "12 chairs" is generally an extremely protracted thing. In "An Ordinary Miracle", Abdulov, playing the tough "Prynets", first rushes on a horse, then clings to the balcony and hangs there like a sausage for several seconds (the tempo is lost!). According to the plot, he must instantly make an exit by force, there are no complaints about the actor - here he could well be replaced by a stuntman, especially since the footage from the back.
                      2. 0
                        27 October 2021 20: 05
                        I see. Thanks.
      2. +2
        27 October 2021 09: 37
        Quote: Sergey-1950
        It seems that the writers and directors are utterly stupid people.

        Those who receive Western grants immediately lose their mind and conscience.
        1. +4
          27 October 2021 11: 53
          Quote: tihonmarine
          Those who receive Western grants immediately lose their mind and conscience.

          who receive grants from the Cinema Foundation are also, to put it mildly, stupid. And their conscience is generally a metaphysical substance.
          1. +2
            27 October 2021 12: 18
            Quote: Ashes of Klaas
            And their conscience is generally a metaphysical substance.

            It's called a freebie.
        2. +1
          27 October 2021 16: 22
          Quote: tihonmarine
          grandees

          The grandees were in Spain. Money is grants!
          1. +3
            27 October 2021 16: 47
            Quote: kalibr
            The grandees were in Spain. Money is grants!

            Those times, live and learn. Thank you, at least someone noticed.
    2. +3
      27 October 2021 08: 10
      When Sorge was stealing these papers, he sang the International and was wearing a "budenovka" on his head! wassat
      1. +2
        27 October 2021 08: 48
        Quote: hohol95
        When Sorge stole these papers, he sang the Internationale

        Note - in Japanese!!! Otherwise, it’s a failure.

        laughing
        1. 0
          27 October 2021 09: 18
          Dancing "Apple ..."
          1. -1
            27 October 2021 10: 31
            Quote: hohol95
            Dancing "Apple ..."

            no, it is unlikely Apple - you can't really spy on a squatting position. Lezginka, I think.
      2. -2
        28 October 2021 19: 14
        "funny", the pan interferes with the thought process of the hike.
    3. +6
      27 October 2021 09: 03
      Quote: Sea Cat
      In the series, it was agreed that Sorge got the Barbarossa plan from the safe of the German ambassador to Tokyo.

      Why the hell did the German ambassador in Tokyo need this plan? Nonsense. wassat

      It's so clear why. To be stolen and put on Stalin's table.
    4. +9
      27 October 2021 10: 25
      Quote: Sea Cat
      Why the hell did the German ambassador in Tokyo need this plan? Nonsense.

      ))
      Oh, Plan Barbarossa could be in the most unexpected places!
      Here's how, in my opinion, modern degenerate scriptwriters see the work of intelligence (impromptu sketched):

      In distant Colombia, in that forty-first,
      In the land of endless monsoon rains
      Lived and worked as a drug courier
      Russian intelligence officer Efim Zilberstein.

      Was friends with the wife of the Reich envoy
      (Lubricated the trunk of the nominal TeTe),
      And once he pulled the key from the safe
      From her neckline.

      Between Mein Kampf and packs of coke,
      Overhead sideburns and other things
      Found Barbarossa's top-secret Plan
      Russian intelligence officer Efim Zilberstein.

      LOMO camera shutter clicked,
      The hero urgently uncovered the radio.
      Conditioned signal - the song "Seven-Forty"
      He brilliantly beat off the key.

      And a day later, without a splash, without a sound
      The submarine took the paper to the Kremlin.
      "Personally in the hands of Comrade Stalin!" -
      There was such a postscript in the dispatch! ...

      ... Somewhere in Colombia, far from Russia,
      Where there are no potatoes among vegetables,
      Bakes oranges quietly in the fireplace
      Russian intelligence officer Efim Zilberstein.

      (c) Ashes of Claes
      laughing
      1. +4
        27 October 2021 12: 48
        Immediately I remembered "Surrender". smile
        1. 0
          27 October 2021 13: 24
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Immediately I remembered "Surrender"

          laughing
          Gorgeous sketch.
      2. +1
        27 October 2021 17: 10
        Thank you, Thiel! good We were very pleased! laughing drinks

        Portrait of Zilberstein with his son (from the wife of the German ambassador). wink

        The son warmed his father's nostalgia: "The voice of the Motherland, he is special ..." (c) bully
        1. -1
          27 October 2021 18: 18
          Quote: Sea Cat
          The son warmed his father's nostalgia: "The voice of the Motherland, he is special ..." (c)

          laughing
          Or like this:
          1. 0
            27 October 2021 18: 53
            This is not just patriotism, but "super patriotism"! Haarosh's son was raised by comrade Yefim. laughing drinks
    5. +1
      27 October 2021 15: 34
      As a child, I was surprised by this detail in a Soviet book. laughing
  8. +5
    27 October 2021 08: 07
    As for this film about Sorge, where Domogarov plays the role of Sorge, it should be noted that conferring the title of People's Artist of Russia and the Order of Friendship of Peoples to Domogarov is the same spit on Russian culture as Gorbachev spat at the title of People's Artist of the USSR to Alla Pugacheva ... It's my personal opinion...
    1. +4
      27 October 2021 09: 40
      Quote: north 2
      It's my personal opinion...

      I think you are right here, especially about Pugacheva.
  9. +6
    27 October 2021 08: 55
    The story with Sorge appeared in connection with Khrushchev's "revelations" of Stalin's alleged major miscalculations on the eve of the war. Khrushchev was so absorbed in discrediting Stalin's personality that he went all out, not stopping before a direct forgery.
    According to Khrushchev's version, R. Sorge provided absolutely reliable information about Germany's readiness to start a war and even named the exact date of its start. (But, as has long been known, there have been many reports about Germany's readiness for war besides Sorge, but Sorge did not name the exact date).
    The merit of Richard Sorge is completely different. He was able to obtain valuable information about Japan's lack of plans to enter the war against the USSR until 1942. This information made it possible to make a bold decision to transfer 10 rifle divisions from the Far East to Moscow, which played an outstanding role in the defeat of the Germans.
    Coincidentally or not, in 1961 the film "Who are you, Dr. Sorge?", Produced in France-Italy-Japan, appeared. Which was shown on TV three times in the Union. The film surprisingly fit into Khrushchev's concept and thus strengthened the impact of Khrushchev's "revelations".
    I must say that at that time good films about the war began to be released, in which not only heroism was shown, but above all human tragedy. Instead of blunt "Two fighters" and frankly stupid "The exploit of the scout" there appeared "The Cranes Are Flying", "The Ballad of a Soldier". They evoked emotions from terrible losses, which were previously suppressed. In principle, this was justified, since after the Victory, a new cold war began without a pause. And it was not permissible to relax. And years later, when the country was rebuilt and, most importantly, the "partners" had something to answer, the opportunity came to remember the losses.

    So, Khrushchev deliberately shifted the emphasis in order to stick his "exposure" into the nerves of the people. It turned out that Stalin could have saved millions of lives if he had come to Sorge.
    Thus, Sorge entered the consciousness of the Soviet people as a failed savior from defeat at the beginning of the war. I must say that at that time Sorge became incredibly popular. I don’t even know how much people are grateful to him. I cannot find suitable analogs.

    Another interesting thing. The name Sorge lives on. Why? But because it can still serve to discredit Stalin.
    1. +2
      27 October 2021 09: 41
      Quote: Sergey-1950
      Khrushchev was so absorbed in discrediting Stalin's personality that he went all out, not stopping before a direct forgery.

      And what could be expected from a Trotskyist.
      1. +1
        27 October 2021 20: 35
        Quote: tihonmarine
        Quote: Sergey-1950
        Khrushchev was so absorbed in discrediting Stalin's personality that he went all out, not stopping before a direct forgery.

        And what could be expected from a Trotskyist.

        It is not at all about Khrushchev's Trotskyism. If we talk about Trotskyism, then with the adjective "former".
        After the war, there were no Trotskyists as such. If anything from Trotskyism can be presented to Khrushchev, then ... just stupidity. His "innovations" in agriculture, the demolition of a harmonious centralized system of managing the national economy ... His most grandiose stupidity was his promise to build the material and technical basis of communism by 1980. But I think that at the heart of all his ideologized transformations lay a passionate desire in their course of transformations to shake up the cadres, get rid of as many Stalinist nominees as possible and stretch out their own. Because Nikita had a very big problem: he was the bloodiest member of the Politburo, and even more so the Central Committee. He was afraid that someday he might be shown his "exploits" in the fight against the so-called. enemies of the people.
        So, Trotskyism has nothing to do with it. Trotskyism is attracted by people who have not seen the situation at the beginning of the 60s.
        Nikita laid the foundation for his power. But due to his limitations, he could not imagine how destructive his innovations would turn out to be. And all the more, he could not imagine that precisely those people whom he had nominated to high positions would see in their benefactor a threat to the very system in which they were so pleased to live.

        And what else needs to be understood. At that time, nothing was known about the work of Soviet intelligence.
        First of all, because many scouts remained in the service and because the affairs of scouts remain a state secret for a very long time. Therefore, the news of Sorge was like the appearance of a UFO in a clear and blue sky in front of an astonished audience. His name became as famous as the name of Chapaev or Chkalov. Such a well-known name was very easy and tempting to use for political purposes.
    2. -1
      27 October 2021 11: 49
      Quote: Sergey-1950
      The name Sorge lives on. Why? But because it can still serve to discredit Stalin.

      In my opinion, Sorge is remembered for a different, quite simple and well-known reason. And the theory that his name is kept in reserve for the sickly dancing with tambourines around Stalin is, you know, conspiracy. hi
    3. -1
      27 October 2021 13: 22
      Quote: Sergey-1950
      Another interesting thing. The name Sorge lives on. Why? But because it can still serve to discredit Stalin.

      All this is nonsense, because regardless of who and how used the name Sorge, he himself is an outstanding intelligence officer and in the encyclopedia published by the GRU for the 200th anniversary of Russian military intelligence, he has been in one of the first places among all outstanding intelligence officers since 1812. Moreover, SIX pages of this fundamental work are dedicated to him, which in itself speaks of his talent as an intelligence officer.
      So no one in the GRU uses the name Sorge to discredit Stalin, and your conclusions are just the fruit of your ignorance in matters of intelligence, which, incidentally, is not surprising for me for a long time.
    4. +2
      27 October 2021 19: 51
      Quote: Sergey-1950
      allegedly major miscalculations of Stalin on the eve of the war.

      And, that is, the catastrophe of the summer of 41 was so conceived by the great strategist?
  10. +5
    27 October 2021 10: 19
    It is also obvious that Trepper, after his conviction in the USSR, fiercely hated Stalin,


    In January 1945, Trepper, the head of the reconnaissance group in Switzerland, Sandor Rado, and his deputy Alexander Foote - only 12 people - boarded a plane that went to Moscow.
    When Trepper arrived in Moscow, he was immediately arrested.
    But what was presented to him?
    Without thinking of anything else, he was accused in ties with Berzin, his direct superior (!). Since then, 4 (ten!) Years have passed.
    On June 19, 1947, the "Special Council" sentenced Trepper to 15 years in prison, and later the term was reduced to 10.
    So why, excuse me, did he love Stalin?
    1. -1
      27 October 2021 13: 31
      Quote: A. Privalov
      On June 19, 1947, the "Special Council" sentenced Trepper to 15 years in prison, and later the term was reduced to 10.
      So why, excuse me, did he love Stalin?

      And for what it was worth respecting Trepper, if he slandered two scouts, and Gurevich was imprisoned, but on the executed Efremov he blamed the failure of the residency, although he himself was to blame for this. It was not in vain that he fled from Poland to Israel and wrote his book there, and Gurevich had to restore his reputation for a long time after his release. So we don't need to tell sugary tales about Trepper - his activities at that time have long been disclosed.
  11. The comment was deleted.
    1. 0
      27 October 2021 10: 57
      There is a new way to comment. First you need to click in the comments field, and then click the "send" field. Then there is such a thing as
      Quote: ivan2022
      [b] [/ b] ueeeeeee
      - and the possibility
  12. +2
    27 October 2021 11: 48
    Under him, it was claimed that Richard Sorge reported on the attack of Nazi Germany on June 22, 1941 in three strategic directions.

    And the worst thing is it is hammered into the head. XNUMXth anniversary of the Moscow Central Circle (Moscow Central Circle). When approaching the Sorge station, the train tells that the main feat of Sorge was that he warned the date of the start of the war. And I had to listen to it twice a day sad
  13. +4
    27 October 2021 12: 09
    Information about the exact date practically did not change anything. USSR and so did everything possible to repel the aggression. Couldn't have done anything better.
    1. +2
      27 October 2021 14: 52
      Quote: Kostadinov
      Information about the exact date practically did not change anything.

      Of course, the exact date can always be rescheduled. It would be strange to run around with her for months. The main information is about the places of concentration and the direction of the blows. And here, at the beginning of the war, Chief of the General Staff Zhukov was to be the first to be handed out. Which is exactly what happened.
      But all the same, the main thing is not the beginning of the War and not repression. The main thing is the real reasons for the "Khrushchev thaw" and the reasons for the Khrushchev game against Stalin ...... This is the darkest topic, which for decades has been carefully hushed up and covered by all kinds of "topicalities", repeated and hammered into the heads of readers a hundred times!
  14. +1
    27 October 2021 13: 49
    Author: Samsonov Alexander

    We can congratulate the author of the article for a fairly balanced and objective assessment of the activities of this outstanding intelligence officer in the history of our country. I think that the author slightly exaggerated the role of Khrushchev when using the name of Sorge in order to compromise Stalin, because the reasons for "forgetting" this intelligence officer were different.
    In fact, there are five versions of the failure of Sorge's residency, and one of them is unfavorable for the resident, who began to make mistakes that could lead to his arrest and the arrest of agents.
    Moreover, the failure itself occurred at the very beginning of the war, when information from Sorge was needed most of all. These two reasons were the reason that Sorge was not nominated for the title of Hero of the Soviet Union immediately after the war, until all the reasons that led to the failure were clarified. Until now, this has not been clarified, although the feat of Sorge is highly appreciated in our country. So that there are no different conjectures about the encryption of Sorge on May 2, I present her original scan so that everyone can understand how he assessed the situation:
    1. -1
      28 October 2021 18: 46
      “These two reasons were the reason that Sorge was not nominated for the title of Hero of the Soviet Union immediately after the war, until all the reasons that led to the failure were clarified.
      --------------------------------------
      there is a version that he was not given a hero precisely because he quickly confessed.
      And the failure occurred due to the fact that the center changed the way of communication used by Sorge, in particular, to speed up the flow of information, switched his liaison to the German communists, from the cat. there was a radio station
      1. -1
        28 October 2021 19: 29
        Quote: Lewww
        there is a version that he was not given a hero precisely because he quickly confessed.

        Nobody knows this, because there is no Japanese material to prove it. And he probably had a version in case of failure, and he could just pretend to be an agent of another country. But the arrests of other members of the residency and their interrogation could lead to the exposure of Sorge as an agent of Soviet intelligence.
        Quote: Lewww
        And the failure occurred due to the fact that the center changed the way of communication used by Sorge, in particular, to speed up the flow of information, switched his liaison to the German communists,

        In fact, he worked through the radio center of the Pacific Fleet, and he did not have any direct communication channel with the Center, as well as with the German communists. I think that this version does not stand up to serious criticism.
        1. 0
          29 October 2021 12: 37
          "Nobody knows this because there is no Japanese material to prove it." = = = and here there is nothing to prove: before the war in the USSR there was not a single case that a failed and confessed intelligence officer was given a hero. If I'm wrong, correct it.
          In addition, during the Soviet era, the hero was given to an illegal intelligence officer in the most exceptional cases, usually after failure, non-recognition, and then many years in prison. Illegals were generally rewarded very sparingly.
          ------------------------------------------------
          "Actually, he worked through the radio center of the Pacific Fleet, and he did not have any direct communication channel with the Center" = = = as far as I remember from what I read, he worked through various communication channels. In particular, after the outbreak of the war, his information was first transmitted in writing either to Hong Kong, or to Taiwan, and from there by radiograms to the center.
          The center decided that it was too long, and switched it to communication through a radio station used by the Japanese communists. And those at that moment were in the development of the Japanese counterintelligence. Outside sat on the tail of the courier Sorge, and he had already brought her to him. Because of this, there was a failure.
          By the way, the courier survived, at first he was in Japan, then he was returned to the USSR, where he was already in a Soviet prison.
          This version was voiced by Leo Trepper in his memoirs, he allegedly sat with this courier in the Lubyanka in the same cell.
          Whether it is true or not, it is difficult to judge - there are still many dark spots in the Sorge case and much has not been declassified.
          1. 0
            29 October 2021 15: 08
            Quote: Lewww
            "Nobody knows this because there is no Japanese material to prove it." = = = and here there is nothing to prove: before the war in the USSR there was not a single case that a failed and confessed intelligence officer was given a hero. If I'm wrong, correct it.

            After the pre-war purges among the leaders of the Intelligence Directorate and our agents abroad, it is not at all serious to hope that at that time they will give a Hero of the Soviet Union.
            But later, when the opportunity arose to analyze both the materials and the activities of certain residents, the issue with Sorge could be resolved differently, for example, as the deceased intelligence officer N.I. Kuznetsov.
            Quote: Lewww
            as far as I remember from what I read, he worked through various communication channels.

            From mid-1939 until his arrest, over 2 thousand radio programs were sent to the Center from Sorge - this is the official data. So, through other communication channels, they could only send what could not be transmitted over the radio channel - for example, some books, reference books, etc. But operational information was betrayed only through an illegal radio station.


            Quote: Lewww
            The center decided that it was too long, and switched it to communication through a radio station used by the Japanese communists.

            There is a fundamental work "Call signs of military intelligence", which was published by the special radio communications service of the GRU General Staff, and there is all the work of the radio station R. Zorge. No radio stations of the Japanese communists are indicated there, if only because the radio operator M. Klausen had up to seven equipped radio apartments. No one would have allowed such a particularly important source of information to be risked by transferring a communication channel to strangers.
            Quote: Lewww
            And those at that moment were in the development of the Japanese counterintelligence. Outside sat on the tail of the courier Sorge, and he had already brought her to him. Because of this, there was a failure.

            There are five main versions of the failure of Sorge's residency, and there is nothing about the radio stations of the Japanese communists.
            Quote: Lewww
            This version was voiced by Leo Trepper in his memoirs, he allegedly sat with this courier in the Lubyanka in the same cell.

            This man and his book cannot be fully trusted - he has tarnished his reputation too much, and to think that someone in prison poured out his soul to him is like believing Solzhenitsyn in his invented tales.
            Quote: Lewww
            Whether it is true or not, it is difficult to judge - there are still many dark spots in the Sorge case and much has not been declassified.
            Of course, they cannot open everything, but there are books published with the active participation of GRU officers, where the activities of this great intelligence officer are described in some detail. For a start, we can recommend M. Boltunov's book "The Achilles Heel of Intelligence".
            1. 0
              29 October 2021 16: 51
              "But later, when it became possible to analyze both the materials and the activities of certain residents, the issue with Sorge could have been resolved differently," = == == and decided. Only the impetus for this (as far as I remember from what I read) was not the results of the intelligence officer's activities, but the publication of an article about him in the American press.
              --------------------------------------------
              "There is a fundamental work" Call signs of military intelligence ", which was published by the special radio communications service of the GRU General Staff, and there is all the work of the radio station R. Zorge." = == = it is possible and so, I have no desire to dispute the information, the reliability of which is not possible
              -----------------------------------------
              "There are five main versions of the failure of Sorge's residency, and there is nothing about the radio stations of the Japanese communists." = = == so add the sixth to them, what's the difficulty?
              ------------------------------------------
              "This person and his book cannot be fully believed" = = = I agree, no memoirist can be fully believed. What is written should be taken only as one of the versions. But as far as illegal intelligence is concerned, the main problem is the inability to verify the proposed versions due to the fact that the materials are usually still not declassified.
              ---------------------------------------------
              "Of course they cannot open everything, but there are books published with the active participation of the GRU officers" = = = Again, I can note that all these books usually did not go far from memoirs. They contain a lot of unreliable information and conjectures of the authors.
              I have read at least 3 books about Sorge, and from what I read I can draw the following conclusions:
              1. as a particularly valuable agent, Sorge was never considered;
              2. he was a double agent, therefore, on the eve of the war, the center treated his information with great distrust, and then as desex;
              3. distrust of Sorge was aggravated by the circumstances that the leaders of the Republic of Uzbekistan, who attracted him to cooperation, were exposed as foreign spies, they tried to call Sorge to the center, but he refused to return to the USSR.
              Thus, the information received from Ramsay was not used by the leadership of the USSR and did not have any significant impact on the course of events.
              Unfortunately, this is a typical case when a GSS was accidentally made of a person, and the real heroes remained unknown
              1. -2
                29 October 2021 17: 04
                Quote: Lewww
                again, I can see that all these books are usually not far removed from the memoirs. There is a lot of false information in them.

                And how did you determine this - did you yourself check their memoirs? If so, where and how, I'm already wondering ...
                Quote: Lewww
                1. as a particularly valuable agent, Sorge was never considered;

                Who told you this if he worked as a resident for more than ten years in a very difficult host country from the point of view of the counterintelligence regime?
                Quote: Lewww
                2. he was a double agent, therefore, on the eve of the war, the center treated his information as desex;

                This is just a lie.
                Quote: Lewww
                mistrust in Sorge was aggravated by the circumstances that the leaders of the RU, who had attracted him to cooperation, were exposed as foreign spies,

                I wonder which of the "exposed" leaders of RU was actually a spy? Can you give a surname?
                I don't know what three books you read about Sorge, but I think they cannot be considered a serious source of information, judging by your statements.
                Quote: Lewww
                Unfortunately, this is a typical case when a GSS was accidentally made of a person, and the real heroes remained unknown

                You do not know anything about Sorge's work, or whether he deserves the title of Hero, which is why your conclusion is superficial and, moreover, smacks of banal anti-Sovietism. By the way, some scouts received the title of Hero on a closed list, so the Motherland always knew how to distinguish worthy, even in difficult times of war, like Kuznetsov.
                1. 0
                  29 October 2021 22: 49
                  "You don't know anything about Sorge's work, or whether he deserves the title of Hero, that's why your conclusion is superficial, and moreover smacks of banal anti-Sovietism. By the way, some scouts received the title of Hero from a closed list," = == == == =
                  Dear, I have not the slightest desire to refute your ideas about the work of the illegal intelligence of the USSR.
                  Remember only one thing: you and I about the work of Sorge and other illegal intelligence officers in the 30s and 40s. we know only superficially from those publications that were published during the Soviet era and after.
                  That is, we actually do not know anything.
                  We cannot double-check the information.
                  On this note, I propose to curtail our completely senseless dispute.
                  ------------------------------------------------
                  "I wonder which of the" exposed "leaders of the RU was actually a spy? Can you name it?" ======= I personally cannot, but in the famous nigga Sudoplatov two surnames Borovich and Berzin are given.
                  -----------------------------------
                  And I am very curious to know the full name of the illegal immigrants who received the SCA on the "closed list".
                  You can give by name winked ?
                  ----------------------------
                  "The Motherland has always been able to distinguish the worthy" = = = nuda well, yes - Glory to the Communist Party !!!
                  1. -2
                    30 October 2021 11: 37
                    Quote: Lewww
                    Remember only one thing: you and I about the work of Sorge and other illegal intelligence officers in the 30s and 40s. we know only superficially from those publications that were published during the Soviet era and after.

                    You, yes, but do not equate me with yourself, if only because I personally knew people who were engaged in intelligence before the war. The veterans told me something, and this allowed me to have my own idea of ​​it.

                    Quote: Lewww
                    And I am very curious to know the full name of the illegal immigrants who received the SCA on the "closed list".

                    Please, here is just a small part:
                    SVR director Sergei Naryshkin at a press conference at the Rossiya Segodnya news agency announced the names of seven more illegal immigrants, four of whom are no longer alive.
                    These are Hero of Russia, retired colonel Yuri Anatolyevich Shevchenko (born in 1939), Hero of the Soviet Union, retired colonel Yevgeny Ivanovich Kim (1932-1998), Hero of the Soviet Union, retired colonel Mikhail Anatolyevich Vasenkov (born 1942) and Hero of Russia General retired major Vitaly Vyacheslavovich Netyksa (1946-2011).
                    In addition, the names of Vitaly Netyksa's widow, retired colonel Tamara Ivanovna Netyksa (born in 1949), as well as retired colonels Vladimir Iosifovich Lokhov (1924-2002) and Vitaly Alekseevich Nuikin (1939-1998) have been declassified.

                    Many, like Blake, for example, received orders and medals from the following lists:
                    Blake was awarded the Orders of Lenin, the Red Banner, World War I degree, "For personal courage", the Order of Friendship, many medals,



                    Quote: Lewww
                    "The Motherland has always been able to distinguish the worthy" = = = nuda well, yes - Glory to the Communist Party !!!

                    I do not know where your Motherland is, but on mine they really distinguished worthy ones.
  15. +1
    27 October 2021 15: 57
    Sorge received important information, some of which could be misleading. In general, in the first half of 1941 there was a lot of disinformation, both the Germans and the British adhered to it. Hitler really wanted to attack in mid-May, but then there was a discrepancy in the Balkans, the Greeks strangled the Italians, and in Yugoslavia in early April Peter II came to power, who showed the middle finger to the Nazis. And Hitler had to go there, the resistance was stubborn and he lost a month there. In fact, the Greeks and Yugoslavs saved us, if the Fuhrer started the eastern campaign on May 2, he could have done it before winter ... And so, on June 15, and many in the Reich were already thinking about May 22. But still they attacked, they did not have time before winter, and got theirs.
    So misinformation is actively intertwined with the real Balkans ... and there were so many dates.
    Undoubtedly, Sorge's strategic information that Japan would not attack in the fall of 1941 also saved us, sent a lot of forces to the west and held Moscow!
    Bright memory!
    1. -4
      27 October 2021 19: 45
      Quote: Glagol1
      And Hitler had to go there, the resistance was stubborn and he lost a month there. In fact, the Greeks and Yugoslavs saved us, if the Fuhrer started the eastern campaign on May 15, he could have made it before winter ...

      This is a great exaggeration, because completely different reasons for setting the date of the attack for June were indicated not only by Sorge, but also by our other scouts. The thing is that since 1939, cards for some types of products have already been introduced in Germany, and the country experienced an acute food shortage in 1941, and the surplus from commodity producers was forbidden to sell on the markets. That is why Hitler waited for the end of sowing work in the USSR in the European part, in order to subsequently improve the food situation in Germany. Richard Sorge indicated this in his report as the first reason, and he can be trusted. The fact that there will be a seizure of Ukraine for the same reasons was reported in other reports of residents from Europe.
      1. 0
        27 October 2021 22: 21
        I agree that you are correctly placing the emphasis on the economic problems of Germany. But all the same, the Fuehrer wanted in mid-May, at least to pick up winter crops in Ukraine. The General Staff guided him precisely, to be in time before the fall, muddy roads, frosts already in October, and so on. The Balkan campaign came to him sideways, he lost a month. I don't remember exactly where I read this, but June 22 was the deadline for the start of the war in 1941, for the Germans, because those who believed that they could cope in 2 months were opposed by those who estimated it at six months ...
        He lost (Fuhrer). In 1941 he started late, well, 2-3 weeks were not enough, and in May 1942 the USSR would have been ready. In general, to fight in the west with the Anglo-Saxons, and in the east with Russia, at the same time, Lord, what a fortune that they had a demoniac in charge. But these are their problems.
  16. +1
    27 October 2021 17: 27
    There was no accurate information from intelligence for a simple reason: Hitler postponed the date of the attack on the USSR several times. May 15, May 30, June 15, and only then - June 22. This is written by the Chief of the General Staff of the German Ground Forces Halder in the War Diary.
  17. +2
    27 October 2021 19: 25
    Very categorically stated. There are many secrets in intelligence and politics, some of which will never be known. There is no need to oversimplify and level the role of personality, especially one as complex as Richard Sorge. And, in general, you have to be more delicate.
    Of course, in that situation, Stalin could not admit that it was his intelligence officer who was working against Japan. It could be a provocation with grave consequences.
  18. 0
    28 October 2021 18: 35
    For some reason, the author has collected in a heap all the myths about Sorge.
  19. kig
    +1
    7 January 2022 03: 50
    Since the originals of the reports are not given, then all this can be considered another myth. At least what relates to warnings about the beginning of the war, because the further fate of Sorge is well documented. What is clear is that there were many such messages, and they all indicated different dates, including real ones. It was impossible to choose "real". Many sources have already been appointed to the role of "real", for example, the Boysen group. This only speaks of the excellent work of the German counterintelligence in disinforming a potential enemy.
  20. 0
    8 January 2022 10: 36
    On September 14, 1941, Sorge announced that at a meeting with the Japanese emperor (September 6), it was decided that until the end of 1941 and at the beginning of 1942, Japan would not oppose the USSR.
    The author has collected all the stories.
    In fact, in this encryption it was written "Japan can act only if the USSR transfers its troops on a large scale from the Far East."
    There is no documentary evidence that this encryption somehow influenced Stalin's decision and even that this information was reported to him
  21. 0
    14 January 2022 14: 19
    Quote: Alexey RA
    And after Manchuria, which gave at least some profit only in the late 30s, before that being a financial black hole,


    Finance is not the most important resource during a war. Metal, coal... you can't make them with a printing press. Again, cheap labor is plentiful.

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