Development trends of self-propelled artillery and promising samples

Russian ACS 2S35 "Coalition-SV". Photo of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

Self-propelled cannon artillery is capable of solving a wide range of combat missions and, thanks to this, remains the most important element of the ground forces. At the same time, there is a need for its further improvement - and the leading countries are searching for the necessary ideas and solutions for this. In the near future, fundamentally new self-propelled guns will enter service with their armies, and it is already clear how they will differ from the current technology.

Perspective development

The development of new projects is carried out in a number of countries, and the most famous are projects in Russia, the USA and Germany. This is not least due to the expected increase in the characteristics and combat qualities of the new technology. Russian, American and German projects of a new generation of self-propelled guns provide for an increase in the range and accuracy of fire, improved mobility, etc. In addition, several other interesting ideas are suggested.

The main domestic novelty in the field of self-propelled guns is the 2S35 "Coalition-SV" combat vehicle, which is already completing tests. This is a traditional self-propelled gun with a completely new 152-mm artillery unit, an automatic fighting compartment and a developed electronic control complex, using original shots. The growth of all main characteristics is declared in comparison with the existing ACS. It is possible to build an installation on a tracked or wheel base.

Test firing from SAO 2S43 "Malva". Photo of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

No less interesting is the Sketch project, within the framework of which several combat vehicles of different shapes are being developed. In the field of howitzer artillery, this family represents the CAO 2S43 "Malva". It was made on a wheeled chassis and equipped with an open-type cannon system. The family also includes self-propelled guns "Magnolia" and "Phlox" with weapons of the "gun-shot" system.

In the United States, over the past few years, the ERCA project has been developed, the result of which has already become an experienced 155-mm howitzer XM907 and an ACS based on it, called the XM1299. The main feature of this complex is the barrel length increased to 58 klb, which should provide a significant increase in the firing range. A new generation of projectiles is also being developed, designed to further increase the range. Until recently, there was a project of an ultra-long-range SLRC complex capable of shooting 1000 miles, but it was abandoned.

Simplified self-propelled guns are being developed in parallel. So, at one of the last competitions of the US Army, self-propelled guns based on trucks with an open mounting of a gun and manual loading, but with a developed fire control system were presented. One of these samples is the Brutus product from AM General. Lighter artillery systems are also being developed on other chassis, starting with the HMMWV.

Unified ТЗМ 2Ф66-1 for "Coalition-SV" and other systems. Photo Vitalykuzmin.net

For several years, the German company KMW has been promoting the AGM artillery weapon station, suitable for installation on different chassis. It is equipped with an L155 52mm howitzer, carries an automatic loader and has a highly efficient FCS. Several variants of ACS with such a module are presented; the last one shown is called the RCH-155 and is built on a Boxer chassis.

In 2019, it became known that Rheinmetall was developing a completely new 155 mm gun. It will receive a 60 clb barrel with an enlarged chamber. The estimated firing range will reach the level of 75-83 km. It is not known how soon such a howitzer will be tested and when it will be possible to build the first experimental self-propelled gun.

Range issue

A common feature of almost all modern and promising ACS / SAO projects is the desire to increase the firing range - this will allow attacking targets at a greater depth of defense, and will also make it more difficult to retaliate. In all cases, the same solutions are proposed for this problem.

To improve the energy performance of guns, elongated barrels are being developed. So, on the ACS 2S35, a gun with a barrel length of 52 clb is used. With the use of a new 152-mm guided active-rocket projectile (ARS), a firing range of 80 km was achieved.

Fire tests of the American self-propelled gun XM1299. US Department of Defense Photo

Meanwhile, the American ERCA project has resulted in a 58-clb barrel, while German gunsmiths are working on a 60-caliber one. During the tests, the XM907 gun was able to send the serial M982 Excalibur projectile 70 km - almost twice as far as the M109 ACS. To date, an additional increase in the range and accuracy of fire has been obtained with the use of standard gun ammunition.

The energy characteristics of the howitzer have their limits, and to further increase the firing range, it is necessary to use special ammunition. Recent records have been set with controlled APCs and new growth is expected in the future.

The American industry continues to work on a new 155mm APC called the XM1113ER. According to unconfirmed reports, it has already been fired at 100 km with sufficient accuracy - and this is not the limit. At the same time, there are other, no less interesting developments. So, in Italy, a shipborne artillery system was developed with a 64-caliber 127-mm gun, which can send a VULCANO projectile to 120 km. In other countries, they talk about the possibility of achieving even greater ranges.

Speed ​​and automation

To protect against retaliation, a modern self-propelled gun must be able to quickly complete a firing mission and leave a position, which, among other things, makes high demands on the rate of fire. For this reason, almost all advanced self-propelled guns are equipped with automatic loaders. The only exceptions are lightweight systems with open mounting of guns.

American ARS in flight. US Department of Defense Photo

According to known data, the Russian "Coalition-SV" has an automatic combat module with mechanized stacking for 70 modular rounds. Automation provides a combat rate of fire from 11 to 16 rds / min. The German AGM module is built according to the same scheme. However, due to its smaller size, it carries only 30 projectiles and 144 propellant modules; rate of fire - up to 10 rds / min. The American self-propelled gun XM1299 received a manned turret with an automatic loader. Its rate of fire is at the AGM level.

Also, transport-loading vehicles are being developed, capable of transporting shots and transferring them to self-propelled guns. A unified TZM type 2F66-1 will be used with promising Russian self-propelled guns. The truck-based vehicle can automatically handle ammunition in calibers from 120 to 152 mm. It will probably be able to serve Malva as well.

Accuracy problem

For promising ACS, highly efficient FCS with a number of characteristic features and capabilities are being developed. First of all, they are required to have high-speed performance and the ability to collect initial information in the shortest possible time, generate data for firing, control the aiming of the gun and enter the task into the ammunition. In accordance with this, all new ACS receive full-fledged control computers with all the necessary functions.

Experienced Brutus system. Photo AM General

Communication and integration into the contours of command and control are of particular importance. Due to this, the time for transferring data from the command or reconnaissance means to self-propelled guns is sharply reduced. In addition, new opportunities are emerging. In recent years, the interaction of artillery with tactical UAVs has been actively developed and used. The latter provide real-time reconnaissance and correction, incl. in hard-to-reach areas.

A decisive contribution to the accuracy of fire of new systems will be made by promising guided ARS. Moreover, when firing at a long range, only they allow you to obtain acceptable accuracy and flow rates. Modern samples of this, Russian and foreign, for the most part use satellite guidance and have a CEP of no more than a few meters.

At the same time, unusual ideas are being introduced. So, several years ago it was reported about a Russian project of a guidance module compatible with conventional shells. Such a product will dramatically reduce the cost of manufacturing guided munitions and further improve the economy of an artillery strike. In addition, compatibility with older artillery systems will be ensured.

Two directions

It is easy to see that the development of self-propelled howitzer artillery is now divided into two directions. The first proposes the use of the most daring ideas and solutions to achieve the maximum possible tactical and technical characteristics. This category includes the Russian project "Coalition-SV", the American ERCA program and some other projects. For obvious reasons, such developments are gaining major attention.

Experienced ACS RCH-155 on the Boxer chassis. Photo by KMW

Within the framework of the second direction, the issue of increasing mobility and some combat characteristics is being worked out - without the use of fundamental innovations that can lead to a significant complication and increase in the cost of the design. This logic is followed by the projects Brutus, Malva and others. Despite the lack of significant breakthroughs, this concept is also of interest to potential customers and is being developed.

Most likely, over the next few years, ready-made self-propelled guns of these two classes, developed in our country and abroad, will reach the point of adoption. They will be operated in parallel in different units and used to solve different combat missions. So, self-propelled guns of "limiting parameters" will take upon themselves the defeat of remote targets inaccessible to other barreled artillery, and simplified "trucks with howitzers" will complement the existing self-propelled guns in their role.

Thus, the simultaneous development of the two directions will make it possible to obtain weapons systems with an advantageous ratio of combat, technical and economic characteristics. However, all promising projects are still at the stage of development work, and the appearance of new equipment in the armies is expected only in a few years. And then it will become clear whether it will start in stories self-propelled artillery installations a new era with new capabilities.

Comments

[rocket757]

Russian, American and German projects of a new generation of self-propelled guns provide for an increase in the range and accuracy of fire, improved mobility, etc.

nothing out of the ordinary, like ... but it must be with classic ammunition design.
A new type of ammunition, will expand / improve the performance of the weapon.

[Vladimir_2U]

And you shouldn't wait for a breakthrough relying on a traditional powder propellant charge and a barrel. Almost everything is squeezed out, except for the rate of fire.

[Yarhann]

rate of fire also has a limit - barrel overheating, as in the same machine guns. the trunk always keeps this taking into account the MSA, but there is a limit beyond which the change in the curvature of the trunk is unpredictable with all the elimination.
An increase in the rate of death is possible only in one way - a decrease in the starting charge in the barrel, that is, the use of active-rocket projectiles. this direction, in fact, is the future of artillery - when one self-propelled gun can throw gifts like a BM21

[Vladimir_2U]

Happy New Year!

Quote: Yarhann

An increase in the rate of death is possible in only one way - a decrease in the starting charge

Even in the Napoleonic wars, the barrels were cooled with water and vinegar; now, water injection into the barrel is actively used on naval AUs. I think it is quite possible to carry a supply of water to shoot the SPG ammunition.

[Aleksandr97]

If we take approximate data walking on the net:
60000g $ __ 300 - 155mm shot, smoke shell (estimated)
60000g $ __ 600 - 155mm shot, a simple high-explosive shell (estimated)
60000g $ _4000 - 155mm round, advanced HE shell (estimated)
60000g $ _8000 - 155mm shot, special projectile (estimated)
60000g $ 50000 - 155mm guided projectile shot

it can be seen for a guided ammunition, the target should justify the $ 50 spent
Development of the FCS using high-explosive - high-explosive fragmentation projectiles with sufficient efficiency, but without "breakthroughs", but most likely should be a priority.

[OgnennyiKotik]

False logic. You didn’t take into account 9/10 costs. The production of the projectile itself is a crumbs of the costs that the Army bears on ammunition.
Direct:
- production is the only thing that was taken into account;
- storage;
- delivery to theater:
- delivery directly to parts:
- service;
- The main thing: overruns of unguided shells for 1 target. Up to 10 times more.

Indirect:
- failure to complete the task, missed:
- risks for the car and the crew, you need to shoot more, respectively, be longer in one position;
- higher collateral damage, not hit;
- unguided shells may not be in the required quantity, logistical difficulties.

As a result, a guided projectile per circle is cheaper and more profitable than a non-guided one. All this has already been calculated and more than once.

[strannik1985]

The main thing: overexpenditure of unguided projectiles for 1 target

Point, but there are relatively few such targets, for example, a platoon stronghold is a group target. They are not very suitable for counter-battery combat, since the main means of detection was and is sound and RT reconnaissance, quite accurate, but insufficient for shells with ZHPS, plus sound can be deceived (simulators of a shot of various systems were developed in the USSR, and the radar can be suppressed, there will be no time for additional reconnaissance from the UAV until it arrives, the artillery has already made a counterfire maneuver). They beat it not with a separate weapon, but with a division (18 self-propelled guns) and the target is not a point one, but 200x150 meters.

The second point is that the accuracy of firing unguided ammunition can also be raised, like the ammunition itself - electronic fuses and remote input means, (a chip with a simple accelerometer (accounting for falls / shocks) for each projectile / charge will give the computer deviations of their characteristics from the table, as well as around the weapon - reconnaissance means giving accurate coordinates in real time, means of topographic reference and orientation, ABS, a computer that calculates, introduces corrections and controls the work of the gunner on each gun, a good (laser, for example) weather station that gives data in real time.

[OgnennyiKotik]

You write information that is relevant 30-40 years ago.
The radar gives the coordinates from where the shot was fired up to several meters, the hit of the projectile will provide its homing head or a greater number of them. Accordingly, in counter-battery combat, a more advanced enemy has a catastrophic advantage.

An example of the LDNR, an artillery or mortar crew has the ability to make 3-5 shots before the Ukrainians cover it. In Syria, Krasnopol is constantly used, the other day only a meeting of militants was covered with it.

I also don’t understand the opposition of a guided / non-guided projectile. Each of them is necessary for their tasks and they all need to be developed. The beauty of the ACS is that its ammo can contain different shells and the crew can choose the one needed for a specific task. Accordingly, if only cast iron, then the fate of the calculation, when meeting with those who have long-range, guided projectiles, will be extremely sad.

[strannik1985]

Radar gives coordinates

Tens of meters, with an error of 10 meters and a CEP of 20 meters, 50% of the shells will fall into a circle with a diameter of 60 meters.

So i don't understand

And it doesn't exist, it's just that each tool has its own niche, guided and corrected projectiles are effective when firing at an observed (semi-active LGSN) point target that the infantry cannot hit with direct fire in medium and high-intensity conflicts.
A trivial example is an infantry company advancing: under the cover of constant fire from the line of destruction of the PTS and before entering the RBU or PTS, they hit after the shot (tape measure, because you have to be an idiot so as not to change position after the shot).

[DDZ57]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

You write information that is relevant 30-40 years ago.

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

An example of the LDNR, an artillery or mortar crew has the ability to make 3-5 shots before the Ukrainians cover it. In Syria, Krasnopol is constantly used, the other day only a meeting of militants was covered with it.

The examples are not entirely correct and, accordingly, one-sided.

There are other examples.
Try to analyze the destruction of an "unknown" tactical group, which climbed where it was not allowed to poke around, in Syria.
Those. with the use of a complex outfit of fire forces and equipment.

Or Operation Iron Fist 2020.
In my examples, I used more modern equipment.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

As a result, in a circle: a guided projectile is cheaper and more profitable than an unguided one. All this has already been calculated and more than once.

ACS are created in order to be able to destroy small targets at relatively lower costs. Agree that the opinion:

Quote: Vladimir_2U

And you shouldn't wait for a breakthrough relying on a traditional powder propellant charge and a barrel.

capacious enough.
Do you suggest using controlled charges for long distances? How, then, are electronic warfare means capable of “adjusting” accuracy indicators towards deterioration? It is traditional shells (now in the perspective of a ramjet engine) that are not subject to external influences. Only at long range does the probability of hitting the target decrease. And here two options can complement each other: up to 70 km - ACS, from 70 km - URS from MLRS or RMSD (with different warheads depending on the tasks).
You can shoot upward with a slingshot, but knocking down a soaring eagle from it is problematic.
Therefore, the development of self-propelled guns should go along the path of increasing mobility and rate of fire, and with the advent of projectiles with ramjet - the range of destruction of targets. The UAV can serve as a reconnaissance and target designation source.

[DDZ57]

Quote: ROSS 42

Do you suggest using controlled charges for long distances? How, then, are electronic warfare means capable of “adjusting” accuracy indicators towards deterioration? It is traditional shells (now in the perspective of a ramjet engine) that are not subject to external influences. Only at long range does the probability of hitting the target decrease. And here two options can complement each other: up to 70 km - ACS, from 70 km - URS from MLRS or RMSD (with different warheads depending on the tasks).

By means of electronic warfare you are not entirely right - the Spacido system (France).
Unguided projectiles with a ramjet when firing at long ranges - you are not at all right, we take into account how unstable the ramjet has.
With ramjet - only controlled and possible ranges of 120-150 km.
This is confirmed by the work of almost 10 countries.
But not in the Russian Federation, it is not visible or audible here.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: DDZ57

But not in the Russian Federation, it is not visible or audible here.

Don't listen, open and read:
https://topwar.ru/168730-100-km-i-bolee-dlja-rossijskih-sau-sozdajutsja-novye-snarjady.html

[I am not a robot]

yes it is a Russophobe, he wrote in the comments that Russian scientists consult with him and report to him all the classified information

[DDZ57]

Quote: Janerobot

yes it is a Russophobe, he wrote in the comments that Russian scientists consult with him and report to him all the classified information

I do not understand the administration of the site, which allows one to insult and lie, and to others for the correct phrase (within the site rules) issues a warning and deletes the comment.

[I am not a robot]

so this is not an insult, but a statement of facts

[DDZ57]

Quote: Janerobot

yes it is a Russophobe, he wrote in the comments that Russian scientists consult with him and report to him all the classified information

In the best traditions of some state. There is nothing to be done about clamps and genes.

[I am not a robot]

well, if you write unsupported nonsense, moreover, the state, braces and genes are here
I am not Russian by name could be identified

[DDZ57]

Quote: Janerobot

unsupported nonsense,

Justify.

Quote: Janerobot

I am not Russian by name could be identified

Me too, and what follows from this.
Reasonable argument and I will apologize to you.
But only - reasonable.
And so - just hanging labels and insults, I do not understand why the site administration allows this.

[DDZ57]

Quote: ROSS 42

Don't listen, open and read:

Opened, look and read - Author: Ryabov Kirill.
I opened Miass (site), the plant so far, I see 80 km, I don’t see it, it’s still a long way to cut cast iron if the sawers don’t die out from covid.
Novosibirsk opened - the plant died.
I opened Moscow, I see over 65 years old at a remote location, etc. It takes a long time to saw cast iron, maybe I won't live to see it.
St. Petersburg is almost like in Moscow, but there is also a terrible adversary byada - import substitution. They will come up with such strange words. A lament base, damn it, or the king would take it, or it is too heavy and large, or it falls apart from the bang. With cumulators, too, byada.
A neighbor who is Chinese leaves all the good for himself, and sends what is left here.

Was in the Army 2021 - 4 days. I looked, looked - I did not see, I did not find it.
I saw the coalition. I saw Dopplers on the Coalition (they are not in the photo in the article). * 0 km on it is not bloody.
Mstu S - I saw. I talked to their platoon and battalion commanders. They saw 25 km. 30 is possible, but not at all accurate.
About 80 km - they began to roll their eyes and twist at the temple, making it clear if I would carry a blizzard
then there will be no conversation and they will not be allowed into the car. a certain contingent must not be allowed to approach the equipment per kilometer, because or in the car or itself will break something.
They then either repair or pay compensation.
Well something like that.

[DDZ57]

I didn’t want to add, because there is a tragedy in this area. But gunpowder:
State of emergency at gunpowder factories and warehouses with gunpowder in Russia in 2016-2021.
https://ria.ru/20210624/porokh-1738408351.html?in=t.
The issue with cellulose.
Central asian cotton - contracted for 20 years in advance.

[DDZ57]

Quote: DDZ57

Central asian cotton - contracted for 20 years in advance.

Not RF.

[bk0010]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

The main thing is the overrun of unguided projectiles on 1 target. Up to 10 times more.

Not all targets are pinpointed. Let's say your task is to disrupt the attack of an enemy motorized rifle regiment. What coordinates will you put into guided missiles and what will be their plus in comparison with conventional ones?

[DDZ57]

Quote: bk0010

the task of disrupting the attack of the enemy motorized rifle regiment

Your task is optimally solved at a distance of up to 30 km with 155mm M454 S-HE ammunition (Israel) and it will need to be supplemented (for guaranteed destruction of armored vehicles) with SPBE ammunition - this is if the infantry dismounted, if the vehicle is used to increase the SPBE and reduce the M454 S-HE. In this case, the M454 S-HE is needed to achieve a better result.

Barrel artillery can solve this problem.

The figure of 30 km, quite possibly, has increased by now.

Ammunition M454 S-HE can have a fuse with a trajectory correction module.

[bk0010]

Quote: Alexander97

60000g $ _8000 - 155mm shot, special projectile (estimated)

Is this a $ 8000 nuclear missile?

[Aleksandr97]

XM-785 - 155-mm active-rocket nuclear projectile. The power of a nuclear charge is 1,5 kt in TNT equivalent.
By analogy, if you take - M982 Excalibur (originally XM982 [1]) - 155-mm guided active-rocket projectile (ARS) increased range, launched from the barrel of a howitzer. Developed by Raytheon Missile Systems and BAE Systems Bofors [2].
The firing range is up to 60 km. Combined control system - satellite (GPS) and inertial. The aerodynamic design is a duck. The warhead is multipurpose.
$ 85 per shell, in case of production in large batches, the cost can be reduced to $ 000
It is only a "carrier".
The cost of the most special warhead is hardly cheaper than 10 million.

[Max PV]

The trend of creating ultra-long-range guided ammunition for cannon artillery seems somewhat strange. Especially in comparison with reactive systems, which the former lose in all respects. After all, if for a 152-155 mm receiver system, reaching a range of 70-100 km is a rather difficult technical task associated with a decrease in the already small mass of equipment due to a jet engine, then for MLRS projectiles, this is either a standard range, or a range that requires only switching to more energy-intensive types of solid propellants or simply reducing the mass of the warhead, which will still be much larger than that of a six-inch projectile. At the same time, the MLRS guided munitions have much more sparing operating conditions for the seeker and control drives, due to lower starting overloads, and much looser requirements for the size of the seeker, its layout and design, which is due to the large caliber, much more freedom of its placement and the permissible shape and fairing sizes, which means either better parameters or a lower price.
Especially interesting, in comparison with guided and corrected ammunition of cannon artillery, looks like the Hermes system, which also gives a gain in the size and weight of the chassis, and realizes an increased range due to its high speed and greater lateral load due to the bicaliber scheme. Although the developers of the barrel systems can still be understood, the technology at the present stage has made it possible to raise the range beyond 70 km, but the design of a conventional OFS (or OFSAR) let us down, because already at 30-40 km, when firing an attached fire, dispersion becomes unacceptable.

[strannik1985]

Desecration with the United States, the Americans are going to fight exclusively overseas, so the logistics problems are getting tough, the guided projectiles are corny less than the PC. Well, the "partners" take an example. It does not make much sense for us, except that for export, it increases the attractiveness of the product in foreign markets.

[DDZ57]

Quote: strannik1985

It doesn't make much sense for us, except that for export, it increases the attractiveness of the product in foreign markets.

There will be practically no export of 152mm caliber, because almost the whole world has moved to 155mm.
He remained with the former Russian Federation and several sanctioners.

[strannik1985]

Export

Not the point, the differences between 155 and 152 are minimal. If desired, the Russian Federation can also organize the production of 155-mm guns (2S19M1).

[DDZ57]

Quote: strannik1985

Not the point, the differences between 155 and 152 are minimal. If desired, the Russian Federation can also organize the production of 155-mm guns (2S19M1).

In this situation, this 3 mm is very important. The Russian Federation did not mass-produce 52 caliber barrels, it is now passing this road. And about mastering the 155mm size - this will be a new song. If you carefully read the article, then it is no longer about 52klb, but about 58 and 60klb. And this is a bad dream for someone. It is now like the 57mm 3iS-2 barrel in 1941, which began to be produced in 1943. when the lend-lease equipment was received.
And about the 2S19M1, if everything was so good, would the Indians take her, and not the Korean?
Single-piece production is not serial .. And besides, the serial plant, where the MSTA-S (Sterlitamak) was previously produced, was killed by friendly fire. All this has already been discussed at VO earlier.
And for NATO, according to the "Joint Memorandum on Ballistics", the SG pressure is 4500MPa.
Ask how much is in 2S19M1.
And a little more: in the Russian Federation there was an enterprise "Ametekh" (Vishnevsky V.S.), which was closed, just because of the lack of 155mm ballistics. And V.S. Vishnevsky due to hassle in 2016. died.
Google to the rescue.

[strannik1985]

In this situation

Yeah, changing from inch to metric. Highly.
For the first time at the exhibition, the 2S19M1 with a 52 caliber barrel was presented in 2002

And about 2S19M1

They did not agree on the price; those that were not accepted for service in the native army should be sold cheaper. According to the characteristics, the K9 is worse.

Take an interest

Materiel. Already in the 2S19M2 series, this year 320 pcs.

[DDZ57]

Quote: strannik1985

Yeah, changing from inch to metric. Highly.
For the first time at the exhibition, the 2S19M1 with a 52 caliber barrel was presented in 2002

And what's next, who was it sold to? How much?
Have you adopted it?

Quote: strannik1985

They did not agree on the price; those that were not accepted for service in the native army should be sold cheaper. According to the characteristics, the K9 is worse.

You saw it yourself, i.e. they held the candle.
There is a difference between 30 and 56 km.
Doppler on ACS?
And how much will happen with the new Asegai?
ACS and Asegai - correspond to the memorandum.

Quote: strannik1985

Take an interest

Materiel. Already in the 2S19M2 series, this year 320 pcs.

Have you read the article carefully? This is not about modernized, but about new promising models.
If so cool, then why isn't she in the photo in Syria?
If you find it, put it up, it will be interesting to see.

And you don't need to put a big mind on emoticons.

[strannik1985]

So, what is next

Why the hell of the RF Armed Forces a gun in caliber 155 mm? On the basis of these developments, 2S19M2 and 2S35 were adopted.

You saw it yourself

On 2S19M1-155, the gun fires all NATO standard projectiles
ABS for 2S19M1 ... M2 ... 2S35 is.

You article carefully

Carefully, how about you?
What does the 2C35 not suit you? The meaning of a high-quality transition is not at all in caliber 155, but in modular loading, just it (production, storage, use) is now being worked out. Despite the fact that the 2S19M2 is close to the new 2S35 in terms of characteristics, and in emergency modes, it seems no better.

[DDZ57]

Quote: strannik1985

So, what is next

Why the hell of the RF Armed Forces a gun in caliber 155 mm? On the basis of these developments, 2S19M2 and 2S35 were adopted.

Economy. Tool cal. Nobody needs 152 mm in the world. For the plant, the amount for the Russian army is unprofitable. Accordingly, the modules are for chem. the plant is small. The price is high. No development prospects
China supports 152. It develops 155. It is pushing the Russian Federation out of the old markets.
India supplied 46mm to M155. I bought K9 from Koreans.

Quote: strannik1985

So, what is next

Why the hell of the RF Armed Forces a gun in caliber 155 mm? On the basis of these developments, 2S19M2 and 2S35 were adopted.

You saw it yourself

On 2S19M1-155, the gun fires all NATO standard projectiles
ABS for 2S19M1 ... M2 ... 2S35 is.

You article carefully

Carefully, how about you?
What does the 2C35 not suit you? The meaning of a high-quality transition is not at all in caliber 155, but in modular loading, just it (production, storage, use) is now being worked out. Despite the fact that the 2S19M2 is close to the new 2S35 in terms of characteristics, and in emergency modes, it seems no better.

On the 2S19M1-155, the gun fires all NATO standard projectiles, but who needs it?
I'm talking about doppler. He's only on 2S35.
Open the NIMI catalog and look at 30F61, look there is an approximation. Of course it's great.
There is a difference between 30 and 56 km. With Asegay even more, and with pylons ???
"Now they are working out" - in what decade they will work. In one of the comments I gave a link on gunpowder.
The shot from the 2S35 does not fit the 2S19M2. A shell from 2S19M2 is suitable for 2S35.
Well, for what it was necessary to fence there was a 152mm garden with 2S35.
The number of these weapons that the Russian Federation will crush is not profitable for the plant. There are no development prospects.
I asked the question at 450 MPA. No answer.
You really understand the difference between piece and batch production.
You understand what it means to modernize old ACS in the conditions of UTM and the old serial production in Sterlitamak. And we take into account that there is nothing in Sterlitamak, as well as in Novosibirsk.

[strannik1985]

Economy

Uraltransmash will be busy with the modernization of the 2S19 and the production of the 2S35, there is no problem to create a variant with a 155 mm gun

I'm talking about doppler

http://otvaga2004.ru/kaleydoskop/kaleydoskop-art/2s19m1-155-mm/
And I'm talking about an artillery ballistic station.

Well, what for

To get fully automatic firing (remote insertion of installations into the projectile has already been implemented in the 2S19M2).

you understand

320 SPGs - this is not a series?

[DDZ57]

Quote: DDZ57

And for NATO, according to the "Joint Memorandum on Ballistics", the SG pressure is 4500MPa.

It is necessary to correct - 450MPa.
Compare with 2S19M2. You will be surprised.

[strannik1985]

Compare with 2S19M2

Dear opponent, the Russian Federation does not fight overseas, that is, it shoots from MLRS at long distances. Comparing "Hurricane" or "Tornado"? Seriously?

[DDZ57]

Quote: strannik1985

Dear opponent, the Russian Federation does not fight overseas

Syria for the current Russian Federation is almost overseas.
Scows were collected all over the world.

/

Quote: strannik1985

at long distances shoots from MLRS. Comparing "Hurricane" or "Tornado"? Seriously?

We compare the same type.
These are for example MLRS MLRS and HIMARS.
And we take into account their new functionality.
And we mean that even the neighbor's "dad" for his "Polonaise" chose not the systems you mention.

You yourself wrote about RUK in Karabakh.
Only for some reason they were only on one side.
And whose equipment was there?
Look on the Internet how the wheeled "Czech" ran along the fronts.
There are videos on the work of their departments.
It will be interesting. Seriously.

[strannik1985]

Syria

6,5-7 thousand people in total. And this is not a reason to weaken the functionality of field artillery.

We compare the same type.

Is it with Iskander? In MLRS, Americans only use controlled RS. This is justified only at long ranges, at short distances it is better than TRS, at medium "Gradov" 122-mm.

Only they were somehow

So this is a question for the military of NKR and Armenia, why they did not concern themselves with the issues of air defense and RTR.

[DDZ57]

Quote: strannik1985

We compare the same type.

Is it with Iskander? In MLRS, Americans only use controlled RS. This is justified only at long ranges, at short distances it is better than TRS, at medium "Gradov" 122-mm.

So you yourself gave an example with the hand, and now you started to go aside.
You have one thing, from you myself ...
What's the difference what to load on the PU, if everything is in TPK: any caliber. Can be less than 122mm. The control system fulfills the commands of the BM on-board computer. And it says about a dozen calibers. You will look for information: what MLRS and who is their manufacturer and what kind of UAV was in the bundle.
In one TPK can be controlled, in the other uncontrollable. Look, even in Kazakhstan there is a MLRS with a TPK. But so far with the unmanageable. And what will happen next if there is money. Azerbaijan has found. The result at the parade.

Quote: strannik1985

Only they were somehow
So this is a question for the military of NKR and Armenia, why they did not concern themselves with the issues of air defense and RTR.

What organization does Armenia and the Russian Federation belong to?
In whose training centers, schools and academies did the soldiers, officers and generals of Armenia study and study? Who trained and is training them? I gave the example of Operation Medvedka 1982. to the Bekaa Valley, in 2020. demonstrated the same thing in Karabakh .. The same rake.
But for some reason, the Russian Federation does not want to admit it.
The Syrians were to blame for that defeat, here - the Armenians.
And what about Krylov's fable?
Air defense jointly with the Russian Federation in 2019. exercises were carried out using modern equipment produced by the Russian Federation. There was a wonderful press release on the results of the exercise.
The result at the parade in Baku.

[strannik1985]

You yourself

What does the RUK have to do with it? MLRS - reactive system salvo fire. Are the Americans firing a volley of controlled RS (they have not fired others for a long time)?

What organization does Armenia and the Russian Federation belong to?

1. Azerbaijan fought with the NKR.
2. Armenia is a sovereign state, membership in the CSTO implies assistance in the event of an attack on a country that is a member of the treaty. The RA AF manages, supplies, supports the RA government and the Ministry of Defense.

[DDZ57]

Quote: strannik1985

You yourself

What does the RUK have to do with it? MLRS - multiple launch rocket system. Are the Americans firing a volley of controlled RS (they have not fired others for a long time)?

Quote: strannik1985

The conflict between Azerbaijan and the NKR is especially indicative, after more or less massive use of guided weapons from UAVs, they switched to RUK - UAVs + barrel artillery or MLRS

Whose comments?

And what does the RUK have to do with it? And perhaps even more so, and you yourself called it, that it also includes an MLRS.
Azerbaijan has applied a MLRS, in which a TPK is installed on the launcher. And TPK can be with different filling.
Well, if this is not the case in the Russian Federation, then you can include someone.
Accordingly, this is not possible at all for others. We begin to discuss pineapple without trying it, and eating carrots all our lives.
But in this situation, everything is exactly the opposite.
The Americans produce TPK with whatever equipment they need.
And the Russian Federation releases what it can.
Opportunities, desires and necessity must be distinguished.
Azerbaijan used advanced weapons systems and tactics in the conflict, which did not exist in the Russian Federation at the time of the conflict and does not exist now.
Armenia, whose armed forces were trained by Russian specialists and were armed with equipment from the Russian Federation, found itself in a matte situation.
Azerbaijan used its artillery (barrel and rocket) in a complex manner, i.e. as part of RUK. And there is a result.
Barrel artillery and BM MLRS "Grad" of the NKR were destroyed and demonstrated at the parade in Baku.
The "Smerch" MLRS, which Armenia transferred to the NKR, were also destroyed.
And everyone who is in the subject laughs at how the "Iskander" of the armed forces of Armenia has worked. Documentary remains have been demonstrated.

Quote: strannik1985

The RA AF manages, supplies, supports the RA government and the Ministry of Defense.

.

All right.
The government and the Ministry of Defense of the Republic of Armenia provide and supply their army with weapons from the Russian Federation, specialists from Armenia studied in the Russian Federation for the money of Armenian taxpayers.
The air defense exercises were attended by participants and weapons systems from the Russian Federation. And the same specialists from the Russian Federation signed acts and protocols based on the results of the exercises. Victory reports. The result is the destroyed and captured Armenian equipment at the parade in Baku.
Google to help.
Well, everything is cool in the Russian Federation.
Or again, remember about the dew ...

[strannik1985]

Whose comments?

Take a close look at what the first comment was written about.

Americans release

Rather, the American military-industrial complex knows how to milk the budget well, ours are so far away.
There are situations when it is necessary to shoot with volleys, when the coordinates of the target are not known exactly, for example, according to the radar data of artillery reconnaissance. At long distances this is justified (but this is what the Iskander with a cassette warhead does), but at medium distances it is not.

Government and Minister of Defense of the Republic of Armenia

What does the Armenian Armed Forces have to do with it if they did not participate in the war?

[DDZ57]

Quote: strannik1985

Whose comments?

Take a close look at what the first comment was written about.

Looked, I corrected the mistake.

Quote: strannik1985

Quote: DDZ57
And for NATO, according to the "Joint Memorandum on Ballistics", the SG pressure is 4500MPa.
It is necessary to correct - 450MPa.
Compare with 2S19M2. You will be surprised.

And he offered to compare the pressure of powder gases in NATO artillery systems and
in 2S19M2.
You didn't compare the pressure and switched to MLRS.
For long-range shooting, you suggested using an MLRS instead of a howitzer.

Quote: strannik1985

Compare with 2S19M2
Dear opponent, the Russian Federation does not fight overseas, that is, it shoots from MLRS at long distances. Comparing "Hurricane" or "Tornado"? Seriously?

And then see the comments.
And the use of RUKs was announced by you.

Quote: strannik1985

Americans release
Rather, the American military-industrial complex knows how to milk the budget well, ours are so far away.
.

No need to guess and look into someone else's pocket.
Let their taxpayer and their Congress look for their military-industrial complex.
They saw the ERCA program and they would finish it. American firms do not want to share ammunition with the Germans. As a result, they are fiddling with shells and propelling charges, because there is the greatest exhaust here.
RDM has Assegai and a more ranged one with pylons. The results of the shooting at the VO were.
New American Met. the charge is slightly different from the German one.
They'll tinker. The result will be ammunition, good for American firms, it will not work with the Germans.
And so Rheinmetall AG signed a cooperation agreement on ammunition with Northrop Grumman. And Assegai got a head with "wings" and reduced KVO.
Surprise Yanerobot (Sapar) will be even greater.

Quote: strannik1985

There are situations when it is necessary to shoot with volleys, when the coordinates of the target are not known exactly, for example, according to the radar data of artillery reconnaissance.

Shooting with volleys does not always guarantee the result (planned), but it is guaranteed only leads to the consumption of ammunition (echelons).
There is still debate over the preemptive shelling of the Central and Voronezh fronts in 1943.

Quote: strannik1985

This is justified at long distances (but this is what the Iskander with a cassette warhead does)

The result for an underexpected target or with a delay in time, and even more so with Iskander, and even more so with a cluster warhead, leads to shameful results. Take a look at Gori 2008. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Quote: strannik1985

but on the middle - no.

At medium distances in Karabakh, Azerbaijan worked with Czech wheels and, to a lesser extent, Russian-Soviet tracks and Turkish MLRS with TPK, in which there were TRSs, NURSs and URSs, and UAVs (Israel and Turkey) looked after this.
By the way, a thick book in Russian was published about this conflict.
And about drones from Israel, you can ask RT.
1982 and Medvedka to help.

Quote: strannik1985

Government and Minister of Defense of the Republic of Armenia

What does the Armenian Armed Forces have to do with it if they did not participate in the war?

No, the Armed Forces of Armenia have nothing to do with it. Only whose freshly toasted "Tornadoes" were, the remains of "Iskander" were found by someone, etc. What is the gallery of car numbers at the parade in Baku - the organizers of the parade showed the public an installation of license plates of military equipment of Armenia, against the background of hundreds of numbers was the inscription "Karabakh is Azerbaijan" was fixed.

.
Well, everything is fine.
The Armed Forces of Armenia did not take part in the conflict
They are not there - does it look like anything?

[strannik1985]

Thank you for long range shooting

Not me, but the RF Armed Forces. The application models are different, you are trying to fit everything into the American pattern.

No need to assume

I am not interested in the American military-industrial complex, I do not like that you from the RF Armed Forces are proposing to make the same feeding trough.
The main means of technical reconnaissance (sound and radar - I remind you) do not determine the coordinates of firing guns with the accuracy necessary for the use of WTO, an error of 30 meters and 50% of the UAS will fall into a circle with a radius of 50 meters (30 meters of error and 20 KVO).
Namely, that MLRS and unguided projectiles allow you to work according to the "triangle of errors" without wasting time on additional reconnaissance.

Only whose were they freshly roasted

Namely, that they did not accept, none of the army corps of the RA Armed Forces in the NKR was deployed, i.e. system The RA air defense was not deployed, at most individual units to replace the losses of the NKR JSC.

Medium distances

How? UAS or conventional shells?

[DDZ57]

Quote: strannik1985

Thank you for long range shooting
Not me, but the RF Armed Forces. The application models are different, you are trying to fit everything into the American pattern.

I am not protecting anyone and I am not adjusting to anyone's template. I am just giving an example that there is or was such a fact. They start to crumble on me ...
History and facts must be known and one must learn from them and draw conclusions so that there are no old mistakes. But it just doesn't seem to be here.
We can repeat. What to repeat:
1904 - Tsushima, 1914 - 1920
1941g.
1982 - Bekaa.
1993 - Chechnya.
2015 - Syria. Predict the result?
2020 - Karabakh.
They repeated it.

Quote: strannik1985

Only whose were they freshly roasted

Namely, that they did not accept, not one of the army corps of the RA Armed Forces in NKR was deployed, i.e. the RA air defense system was not deployed, at most individual units to replace the losses of the NKR JSC.

The logic is interesting, they did not accept it, but some divisions did.
Can you imagine the real picture if someone's satellites detected the passage of large units of the RA Armed Forces to the NKR. And they gave the picture.

Quote: strannik1985

Medium distances
How? UAS or conventional shells?

And so and so. Depending on the price of the target, the speed of the target, and the ability to hide.
And controlled in the air.

Quote: strannik1985

RF Armed Forces propose to make the same feeder.

I'm not suggesting anything. She's just here.
Are you satisfied with Rostekhovskaya?
Google to help the descendant of Genghis Khan and a member of the great five.
Americans can be discussed if there are specific facts
"Prize" in the studio and go through them.
They close unsuccessful topics, conduct prospecting work, DARPA vacuums them all over the world and gives money for promising areas, including to foreign companies, but not from the CIS.
The results of military work are thrown into civilian life.
For a number of techniques, a prerequisite is the use of civilian mastered and proven units. Rheinmetall example.
And much more.
I have already given an example, in some areas in the Russian Federation they do not even know what to discuss. But they branded it in full and have not yet apologized.

Quote: strannik1985

The main means of technical reconnaissance (sound and radar - I remind you) do not determine the coordinates of firing guns with the accuracy necessary for the use of WTO, an error of 30 meters and 50% of the UAS will fall into a circle with a diameter of 50 meters (30 meters of error and 20 KVO).
Namely, that MLRS and unguided projectiles allow you to work according to the "triangle of errors" without wasting time on additional reconnaissance.

And in the presence of a picture from the air in on-line mode, you can work, either controlled or uncontrolled. Every whim for your money. An incomplete show began in 1973. - war of the loan day (uncontrolled, but increased range, communications, AIR, air-aviation), the end of the 70s in Angola (Savannah) (uncontrolled, but increased range, communications, AIR, air-aviation), continued with a stunning result in 1982 (Medvedka) (integrated, UAV in three directions) and confirmed in 2020. (Iron fist).
Information on the integrated impact on someone in Syria may pop up and then we will discuss it.
Book p. Pukhov "Storm in the Caucasus" (2021) partially to help. This is so that they do not continue to write me as a spy.

[strannik1985]

The logic is interesting

It's very simple. Which of the army corps of the RA Armed Forces took part in the hostilities?

Both that and that.

Ie you do not know. If you do not know why to trump?

And if there is

That is, again relying on a war with the Papuans, who have air defense of the level of the 70s of the last century, who do not know how to jam and determine radiation sources?

[DDZ57]

Quote: strannik1985

The logic is interesting
It's very simple. Which of the army corps of the RA Armed Forces took part in the hostilities?

I do not know which of the army corps of the Armenian Armed Forces took part in the hostilities on the territory of the NKR. And I don't need it.
The equipment and personnel of the Armenian Armed Forces took part in this conflict.
I do not know in what status they were: volunteers, military personnel who wrote reports on temporary dismissals, etc.
But you can include something and declare: they are not there. I have experience.
But there was an exchange of prisoners.
And its equipment speaks about the participation of the RA Armed Forces: captured and destroyed.
And a lot of equipment destroyed and captured. See license plates from installation.
Representatives of military intelligence have already identified the entire affiliation.

But here you can also include someone.

And I propose to visit the park of war trophies of the Second Karabakh War in Baku, maybe you will see someone or something familiar.
http://war-only.com/park-voennyx-trofeev-vtoroj-karabaxskoj-vojny-v-baku-azerbajdzhan-chast-1.html

Quote: strannik1985

Both that and that.
Ie you do not know. If you do not know why to trump?

LORA, TRLG-230 (used with UAVs), 122mm (USSR and Turkey), 107mm (Turkey), etc.

Quote: strannik1985

And if there is

That is, again relying on a war with the Papuans, who have air defense of the level of the 70s of the last century, who do not know how to jam and determine radiation sources?

I do not know what the calculation was and with whom they were going to fight.
But look how many joint exercises of the air defense forces of the Russian Federation, Armenia and the NKR were in 2019 and 2020. on the territory of the Russian Federation and Armenia.
The last ones before the offensive of Azerbaijan were on July 23, 2020. on the territory of the Republic of Armenia - "during the training, new forms of combat against UAVs will be developed in order to improve the system of countering them."
June 21, 2019 RA - "We are ready at any moment of the day or night, in any weather, to repel any encroachment in the zone of responsibility, the territories of Armenia and Artsakh are protected from any encroachments."
Etc.
And if they are, as you said, then why all this circus, hypocrisy and verbiage.

[DDZ57]

Quote: strannik1985

knows how to milk the budget well

Milkmaids of the budget from the Russian Federation have probably surpassed their colleagues from the USA. The term milkmaid is not mine, I use it, but there is no plagiarism here, because I give a link to the author.
This is me about Albert Bakov - the best "milkmaid" of Rostec
(https://rucriminal.info/ru/material/albert-bakov-luchshaya-doyarka-rostexa).
He is also the "Trojan horse" of Rostec (https://compromat.group/main/economics/38890-albert-bakov-troyanskiy-kon-rosteha.html). He is the son-in-law of the main BESOGON RF.
I wonder why a "milkmaid" and not a milkmaid. This is in the sense of sexual orientation.

And a little about the boss.
"Sawing Technologies: How Chemezov's Children Make Billions at a State Corporation" (https://compromat.group/main/investigations/50732-raspiltehnologii-kak-deti-chemezova-zarabatyvayut-milliardy-na-goskorporacii.html).

About their apartment - wife Yekaterina Ignatova owns an apartment near Red Square worth about 5 billion rubles, writes opposition politician, founder of the Anti-Corruption Foundation, Alexei Navalny. Navalny is based on extracts from the Unified State Register of Real Estate, according to which Ignatova Ekaterina Sergeevna (also called Chemezova's wife) owns two premises (723 and 711 sq m) on the 12th and 13th floors in the house at Okhotny Ryad, 2. This house is the building of the Four Seasons Hotel (formerly the Moscow Hotel), the upper floors of the building are used as housing. The extracts indicate the date of registration of the right to the premises - September 14, 2015.
Google to help.
Well, like a sawmill.

[DDZ57]

Quote: strannik1985

Syria

6,5-7 thousand people in total. And this is not a reason to weaken the functionality of field artillery.

There are only 6,5-7 thousand people, but what kind of "smell" comes from them in the Altai Territory (and quite possibly the nearby regions), to which they were assigned during the elections to the State Duma of the Russian Federation in 2021. And how are they now treated? residents of these regions. The "Syrians" collapsed the result of the voting of the residents of these regions, just like the DEG in Moscow.
The Syrian rattle on the chest will now trigger a corresponding reaction.

[strannik1985]

Stream of consciousness off-topic

[DDZ57]

Quote: strannik1985

Stream of consciousness off-topic

The flow is formed by you and the channel and side branches.

The picture with the Armenian numbers of the equipment of individual units of the RA Armed Forces did not impress. There is a different angle.
And what is the conclusion about corruption?

[Lyman1982]

UAVs and mini missiles, a swarm of UAVs and themselves instead of missiles will be, artillery is the last century, let them fight in the CIS))

[strannik1985]

The conflict between Azerbaijan and the NKR is especially indicative, after more or less massive use of guided weapons from UAVs, they switched to RUK - UAVs + barrel artillery or MLRS

[DDZ57]

Quote: strannik1985

The conflict between Azerbaijan and the NKR is especially indicative, after more or less massive use of guided weapons from UAVs, they switched to RUK - UAVs + barrel artillery or MLRS

Only what you are writing about was from Azerbaijan.
This happened due to the fact that Azerbaijan additionally had new weapons systems.
made in Israel, Turkey, Czech Republic.

[bk0010]

Quote: Lyman1982

UAVs and mini missiles, a swarm of UAVs and themselves instead of missiles will be, artillery is the last century, let them fight in the CIS))

So they thought in the USSR. And then the Jews with the help of the self-propelled guns arranged this that they had to urgently make a flower series.

[I am not a robot]

and what did the Jews do with the sau

[DDZ57]

Quote: Janerobot

and what did the Jews do with the sau

"During the Yom Kippur War on October 6, 1973, the IDF first used howitzers with a barrel length of 45klb / 19l, which provided a firing range of more than 40 km, at their positions they had meteorological and ballistic stations with Doppler radar and surveyors. Let the artillerymen inform you. As a result, taking into account the fact that the calculations are well-coordinated, we have fully mastered the instrumentation and at the test sites it was all rolled.

There was already 155mm artillery - article on VO- https://topwar.ru/175203-demonstracija-stvolov-i-zhelanij-obzor-rynka-samohodnyh-artillerijskih-sistem.html#comment-id-10794172

[I am not a robot]

and what kind of howitzers were they?
and what does the USSR sau flower series have to do with it (2C3 acacia started to be delivered in 1968)

[I am not a robot]

Valery is it you that you put cons to me, oh, you evil Pinocchio, but I don’t put it to you
and to the question you will answer what kind of howitzers were, just wondering

[DDZ57]

Quote: Janerobot

Valery is it you that you put cons to me, oh, you evil Pinocchio, but I don’t put it to you
and to the question you will answer what kind of howitzers were, just wondering

Israel and South Africa. An unnatural alliance. JAMES ADAMS.
Printed in London (England) (I did not find the year, according to estimates until 2000 - I am afraid to be inaccurate).
Talked about the investigation of the interaction of Israel and South Africa.
Now it can be found on the Internet.
Gerald Vincent Bull and his Space Research Corporation (SRC).
Using contacts with the Pentagon and thanks to its help, he made a secret deal with Israel. In 1973, the Bullev Corporation delivered about 50 thousand 17,5 cm shells there, which fired at the central quarters of Damascus from the Golan Heights ...
Based on the experience gained in the HARP project in the early 70s, Dr. Bull's Space Research company began research on the creation of a new GC-45 artillery howitzer with an increased firing range and ammunition for it. This gun was distinguished by a high muzzle velocity (897 m / s). The gun had a length of 45 calibers to ensure the required speed of the projectile with an improved aerodynamic shape with lower drag and with a bottom notch (ERFB-Extended Range, Full Bore projectile) at a speed of 897 meters per second, as well as its modification with an increased range using a bottom gas generator ( ERFB-BB projectile) giving an average deviation of only 212 meters.

Israel received sets of barrels and ammunition. And other equipment.
The barrels were installed on old gun carriages.
And this artillery has contributed to ...

It is not necessary to crumble the whole loaf on me, I have nothing to do with the flower series and all the minuses.

And the link is early. All this has been chewed several times already.
And we are carefully looking at the dates in order to realistically assess the situation, i.e. who is in what time and space lag.

[I am not a robot]

well here is some interesting information,
but it is doubtful that an unguided projectile of the 70s with such a range and a bottom gas generator has such a small quo

[DDZ57]

Quote: Janerobot

well here is some interesting information,
but it is doubtful that an unguided projectile of the 70s with such a range and a bottom gas generator has such a small quo

I also hesitate, but.
The example is modern.

And one comment from the south. I give in the original. Someone might be a manstre.
The full picture is that after our operation Savannah - the 1974-5 invasion of the Cuban / Russian backed country called Angola (at the behest of the American CIA), we quickly realized that we our old WW2 era 5.5 inch and 25 pounder guns were being outgunned by Russian D-30's and 122mm MR L's. This immediately started us on a quest for artillery with ranges greater than 26 Km's. However with a total arms embargo now placed on us, we simply had to develop our own artillery (compounded by the fact that we had a relatively small and now non replaceable airforce, also necessitating the need for artillery to compensate).
We initiated concepts and theoretical work for long range artillery, however we lacked the computing capability to test our theoretical framework. The CIA put us in touch with Gerald Bull and we then contracted his Canadian SRC company in terms of assisting with our artillery project.
Gerald Bull, who had been working extensively on some of his own concepts and ideas for for very long range artillery (including placing objects / satellites into space via artillery), ran OUR theoretical calculations on his computers for us. Later with his financial issues (mostly due to his US conviction and Canadian fine for contravening the UN's arms embargo, principally from helping us), we (Armscor) bought shares in his SRC company and placed key management / engineers within the SRC company. Prototype barrels and projectiles were tested through a joint consortium of Gerald Bull's and Armscor's engineers on the island of Antigua, which proved rather successful. These tested prototypes were then shipped to South Africa, where from 1976 onwards we continued and developed the full artillery system, finally emerging as the G-5 gun.
It's true that we got base-bleed technology from Gerald Bull (he bought it from Sweden, who developed it specifically for their coastal artillery), however it is rather tricky to get right and has a fairly negative effect on dispersion (accuracy), which is why the Americans gave up on rocket assisted rounds for many years (yes, I know there is a difference, they work in a similar way though). We perfected it to the point where the dispersion is negligible (0,4% at full range) and range was even further increased. Still today many defense firms around the world purchase our base bleed units / filling, for use and also re-sale on their own home produced artillery shells (including Germany).

What about unsupported nonsense, oh, you evil Pinocchio, this is a Russophobe, he wrote in the comments that Russian scientists consulted him and reported to him all the classified information.
What do we do.
And further. The photo does not apply to the Russian Federation.
In the Russian Federation, in the regional center, it is possible to find a specialist so that he provides hundredths on the case, only if that mop or bottle is in one place.

[Jacket in stock]

But I wonder at what point does the economy of the howitzer cross the economy of the rocket?
The rocket can be launched practically from the knee, but it is itself large, heavy and expensive.
A huge, heavy, complex and expensive cannon, shoots cheap, simple "iron".
But they only fly not far and fall inaccurately.
So that the projectile flew further, you can attach an engine to the "cast iron". And to get it - wings, rudders and guidance system. Those. turn into a rocket.
Doesn't it seem very logical to me alone?

[OgnennyiKotik]

The question is about the possibilities. No one is talking about the abolition of "cast iron", for certain tasks they are necessary. A guided, long-range projectile is an increase in the capabilities of artillery and its survivability. Increasing versatility, the United States is considering SPGs as a possible air defense weapon. Already shot down by drones.
The task is to create a universal launcher that can work on land, sea and air targets with the necessary projectiles for this. Moreover, it is farther, more accurate and faster than a counterpart, if any.

[strannik1985]

A guided, long-range projectile is an increase in the capabilities of artillery

Or you can take an ordinary projectile, weigh / measure the exact weight / dimensions for compliance with the standard, enter the data into a "smart tag" (like on fur coats), when loading, ASUNO will remotely remove individual corrections and enter them into the calculated data for shooting.
ASUNO and self-locking means allow placing guns one by one, and not with batteries / divisions, self-propelled guns or self-propelled guns can shoot in the mode of short fire raid - movement - short fire raid, etc., etc.
Thus, it turns out that a guided projectile in terms of artillery development is a niche, while a very expensive tool.

[DDZ57]

Quote: strannik1985

Or you can take an ordinary projectile, weigh / measure the exact weight / dimensions for compliance with the standard, enter the data into a "smart tag" (like on fur coats), when loading, ASUNO will remotely remove individual corrections and enter them into the calculated data for shooting.

They do.

Quote: strannik1985

ASUNO and self-locking means allow placing guns one by one, and not with batteries / divisions, self-propelled guns or self-propelled guns can shoot in the mode of short fire raid - movement - short fire raid, etc., etc.

Wandering howitzer with a transporter.
If you have a Doppler on it, a weather station and what you have.
And communication with those who exercise control or the presence of control equipment on board.

Quote: strannik1985

Thus, it turns out that a guided projectile in terms of artillery development is a niche, while a very expensive tool.

A fuse with a correction block - must be on each weapon.
Almost all shells are of a unified modular design and must allow the installation of long fuses. Modern requirements are there.

[strannik1985]

Roaming howitzer

Who? Close-range "three axes" - expensive, towed, with wild ergonomics? At the same time, it is necessary to make mixed divisions - 12 105-mm and 6 155-mm 777.

[DDZ57]

Quote: strannik1985

Roaming howitzer

Who? Close-range "three axes" - expensive, towed, with wild ergonomics? At the same time, it is necessary to make mixed divisions - 12 105-mm and 6 155-mm 777.

I do not say from whom, I say that this type of combat activity (tactics) of the self-propelled guns is called "nomadic tactics".

As for 777 - why is it so far away (although it has its own niche, in addition, the ERCA program extends to it). What can you say about РzН 2000, К9 - Norway, Finland;
Archer, CAESAR, self-propelled guns of the Czech Republic. Count how many there are. Check out their Specifications.
And additionally project the picture of Asegay on them.

[strannik1985]

Count how many there are.

Naturally, they are in the bloc or sympathize, but this does not change the strategic nuclear forces.

[DDZ57]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Already shot down by drones.

A single information space and the corresponding BM and ammunition allow a lot. The defeat of a cruise missile was also demonstrated. All this was at VO.

[DDZ57]

Quote: Jacket in stock

But I wonder at what point does the economy of the howitzer cross the economy of the rocket?
The rocket can be launched practically from the knee, but it is itself large, heavy and expensive.
A huge, heavy, complex and expensive cannon, shoots cheap, simple "iron".
But they only fly not far and fall inaccurately.

It's not about economics, it's about functions.
Everything you say was under Khrushchev. Replaced until they caught up.
A rocket can be launched from a howitzer, on the contrary, it cannot.
The howitzer has inexpensive ammunition.
What a howitzer can accomplish may not always be accomplished by a rocket.
Within 5-7 years they will fly 120-150 km with a hit sufficient to solve howitzer tasks.
It's better to leave it that way for now.

[Babalaykin]

You need to come up with a smart rocket for hail, and not very smart for hitting targets.
How it will work:
1. One installation launches a smart rocket cat. performs additional reconnaissance and indicates the exact coordinates of targets;
2. After a short time, launches all other missiles;
3. At the time of the approach of combat missiles, the smart one sends them the specified coordinates of reconnoitered targets, for example, tanks, trucks, buildings, etc.
4. Combat missiles adjust the flight and thus work not in area but for specific targets.

[Jacket in stock]

You need to come up with a smart rocket for hail, and not very smart for hitting targets.
How it will work:
1. One installation launches a smart rocket cat. performs additional reconnaissance and indicates the exact coordinates of targets;

And they have already come up with it.
The truth is not for the Grad, but for a larger caliber.

[Jacket in stock]

https://topwar.ru/150388-bespilotnik-dlja-smercha-razvedyvatelnyj-kompleks-zavershaet-ispytanija.html

[Babalaykin]

This is understandable, but all the same, the purpose is somewhat different, the tornado is larger in buildings, but it would be great to cover the location of HP and equipment with a hail

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Babalaykin

tornado on buildings

The Tornado's nomenclature contains shells for every occasion. Both in terms of technology and manpower.

[DDZ57]

Quote: Jacket in stock

The truth is not for the Grad, but for a larger caliber.

And for the Grad, and for the caliber, less happy and for the caliber, more Grad.
Full assortment, but not in the Russian Federation.

[Viktor Sergeev]

Doing nonsense. More range, more deflection. MLRS are hit at long ranges.

[Knell wardenheart]

A perennial problem is push-pull competition again. Long range of art systems = low accuracy, low barrel life. We correct the accuracy - we get not a projectile but a rocket in the dimensions of the projectile. It turns out very expensive but not lethal enough. Ultimately, we have the "Great Inca sling" that shoots golden balls, literally. For armies with long-range missile systems or advanced aviation - in general, this is the third leg in fact. For armies where one or the other is not enough - gold shells for slinging is generally not an option.
As a result, everything returns to normal - the classic art systems of the + - range, great mobility, a theoretical option for different types of shells.
In view of all this, the role of such art systems in a major war is doubtful, and even more doubtful is this fanatical race for performance characteristics. The war will not be positional, if it is. This is not a pancake to bombard Paris and not the Sevastopol forts.

[riwas]

It seems that it makes sense to revive the 160-mm mortar in a new quality. Self-propelled rifled barrel. Cluster projectile with self-aiming ammunition. shrapnel shell at the infantry lying down and in the trenches. Counter-battery firing at enemy 120-mm mortars. Longer range than a 120mm mortar, but a higher rate of fire than a 152mm howitzer. In the forest, in cities, in the mountains, it can be more convenient than howitzers.

[eehnie]

Very likely the three main lines of development try to improve the range, the mobility and the safety of the crew, but certainly, the three can be combined in every development.

The improvement on range must come from the development of new weapons for every caliber, taking into account the four main groups, long range direct fire weapons, tank-anti tank direct fire weapons and weapons that combine direct and indirect (mortar) fire, and indiret fire, that have each their own best calibers. Russia presented new weapons for most of the cases, but not for all still, and I expect some new weapon to be presented in the short-term or the mid-term ..

And the improvements on mobility and safety of the crew must come from the development of new platforms, tracked and wheeled, for actic conditions, airborne or amphibious. In this case the new platforms for all the cases have emerged with more or less advanced work.

If Russia takes a new weapon and combines it with a veteran platform, will improve the range, but not the mobility and neither the safety of the crew. If Russia takes a veteran weapon and combines it with a new platform will achieve an improvement on mobility and on safety of the crew, but not in range.

It is expected that Russia combiens both in a single step, all that Russia must do is to combine the new weapons with the new platforms, and the result can be outstanding for the new generation of Russian artillery under development.

The 2S25 Sprut-SDM1, the 2S35 Koalitsiya and the 2S42 Lotos, are good examples of the combination of modern weapons and modern platforms. Even the T-14 can join (tanks are also self-propelled artillery pieces by nature). These are the most advanced between the presented recently in Russia.

.

[DDZ57]

Quote: eehnie

The 2S25 Sprut-SDM1, the 2S35 Koalitsiya and the 2S42 Lotos, are good examples of the combination of modern weapons and modern platforms.

Look at the 2S25 Sprut-SDM1 and 2S42 Lotus infrared floodlights, which are over 50 years old. And conclude that the driver of these cars sees at night.

What kind of airborne equipment can we talk about at the present time?
Only if to strengthen the WG on its territory.
Complete lack of crew protection.
This has already been done in Afghanistan. Remember the strengthening of the BMP-2's body armor.

Disguise? Ambush actions?
See how everything is seen from above. Fresh information.
(The OSCE drone failed the Donetsk artillerymen
https://topcor.ru/22278-dron-obse-postavil-nezachet-doneckim-artilleristam.html?utm_source=warfiles.ru)
Remember Karabakh 2020.
Remember whose drones were in Karabakh and where they are now.
Have you learned anything?

The firing range of the 2S42 Lotus is impressive. Now compare it to at least the lighter and cheaper 105mm systems. I'm not talking about lightweight 155mm systems (towed, which can also be carried by helicopter and on a wheeled chassis).
It was already in the late 70s in Angola.

Conclusions made?

Yes, this technique is advanced in the Russian Federation, but not in the world.

There is such a design principle - modular unification. It is known about him even in Jordan.
They used it and made a howitzer on a wheeled chassis. And this howitzer is already being used in the army.
The RUM II is based on a DAF 6x6 truck chassis fitted with an M126 155mm / L23 howitzer.
The same gun is installed on the tracked self-propelled howitzer M109. The difference is a new recoil compensation system (muzzle brake).
Quickly. Inexpensive. Simple maintenance and repair. No new operators required. Interchangeability.

Rheinmetall cuts by this principle, both alone and in company with others.
What is the "mission module" (Mission Module) of armored vehicles of the ARTEC Boxer family.

The same modular unification is also in the designs of cannon artillery ammunition.
Systems, assemblies, assemblies and other structural elements of machines are performed according to this principle.
Nothing is a secret. Look, learn, rip off, bypass patents, protect yours, release, but there is a desire to go your own way.
But where?

[eehnie]

The firing range of the 2S42 Lotus is impressive. Now compare it to at least the lighter and cheaper 105mm systems. I'm not talking about lightweight 155mm systems (towed, which can also be carried by helicopter and on a wheeled chassis).
It was already in the late 70s in Angola.

The 2S42 Lotos has a wapon that combine direct and indirect fire (mortar style). Really is not a weapon that is focused in to reach maximum range. Technically the 2S42 is to be compared with the self-propelled airborne mortars around 120mm in service with the United States or other countries. And then you see there is nothing matching the 2S42, even if some imporvements can be made.

Still there is not a new project of weapon that combines a new weapon focused on long range with the new airborne platform. This is in part why I exposed in my previous comment that Russia still has not developped all the good potential options. Technically, the calibers between 120mm and 130mm are basically redundant (120mm, 122mm, 125mm and 130mm). A caliber is a diameter, and in this sense, these diameters have not big differences, but they are used to different roles. The caliber finding long range has been the 130mm and of course Russia can develop a new weapon of 130mm at least with the range of the M-46, that is double than the range of the 105mm weapon you cited. Certainly would make a good combination if achieved. Do you know some analogue of a level like this?

And there are many more good options for the next generation of Russian artillery. Russia has the new platforms advanced. Russia has the 152mm weapons, Russia has the 120mm-130mm weapons except the long range weapon. And some new weapons of 203mm and 240mm are to be expected.

Certainly Russia is not being a follower on artillery. Russia is being a leader, despite many people still do not realize of the most advanced options that can be generated just by combination of new Russian weapons and the new Russian platforms. Maybe I write an article about it some day.

Wheeled artillery? For Russia the Boomerang is the right platform.

[DDZ57]

Quote: eehnie

The 2S42 Lotos has a wapon that combine direct and indirect fire (mortar style). Really is not a weapon that is focused in to reach maximum range. Technically the 2S42 is to be compared with the self-propelled airborne mortars around 120mm in service with the United States or other countries. And then you see there is nothing matching the 2S42, even if some imporvements can be made.

It is better to ask yourself the question: in this form, are they needed.
This is me about airborne landing. When and in what conflict this property was used.
The 2S42 is better compared to the 120mm M-327 EFSS. Possible with Dragon Fire II. It is possible with the Singapore version.
And compare them better for the price.
Azerbaijan, having the largest number of veins, for some reason did not highlight them anywhere.
And most of all I drove wheeled Dana.

Quote: eehnie

This is in part why I exposed in my previous comment that Russia still has not developed all the good potential options. Technically, the calibers between 120mm and 130mm are basically redundant (120mm, 122mm, 125mm and 130mm). A caliber is a diameter, and in this sense, these diameters have not big differences, but they are used to different roles.

India and China are developing 105 and 155mm calibers.
India began to change the barrels on its M-46s (so far for 300 pieces, and there were about 1000 of them) by 155mm, which even got almost 40km on its own.
China supports 122, 130 and 152mm, but is intensively sawing 155, finances, technology and population allow it.
In addition, we take into account that China in the 90s began licensed production of the GHN-45 / APU under an Austrian license (that is, he is a student of J. Bull).

Quote: eehnie

The caliber finding long range has been the 130mm and of course Russia can develop a new weapon of 130mm at least with the range of the M-46, that is double than the range of the 105mm weapon you cited.

If we are talking about the 130mm M-46, then it would be more correct to compare it with the 105mm LEO gun (South Africa). And the comparison may not be in favor of 130mm.

Quote: eehnie

Russia has the new platforms advanced. Russia has the 152mm weapons, Russia has the 120mm-130mm weapons except the long range weapon. And some new weapons of 203mm and 240mm are to be expected.

We take into account the fact that the 152mm caliber has practically no export prospects, except for toxic regimes and freeloaders.
Look, for example, the numbers for the release of K9. And how it is licked by joint efforts.
203mm has no prospects, given that 155mm is developing and the results of Karabakh speak about it.
Azerbaijan, perhaps, still has a reserve of 152mm in barrels and ammunition. There will be money, but there will be no end to those who want to recycle by 155mm.

Quote: eehnie

Russia is being a leader, despite many people still do not realize of the most advanced options that can be generated just by combination of new Russian weapons and the new Russian platforms. Maybe I write an article about it some day.

The real situation is exactly the opposite. There is no Sterlitamak, no Novosibirsk and questions about chemistry. And so for the record: in the Russian Federation, the only woman, Doctor of Science in the specialty "Armament and military equipment, died from covid. We look at the situation in South Africa and have it in mind. Regarding the article: a flag in hand, it will be interesting to read."

Quote: eehnie

Wheeled artillery? For Russia the Boomerang is the right platform.

There is a question - what kind of AU to put on it.

[eehnie]

The 2S42 is airborne, and the combination of the airborne platform with a potentital 130mm or 125mm weapon of long range of new design would also be airborne. This is important in order to compare, because the airborne platforms have their own limitations, that non-airborne options can avoid. The Russian airborne platforms need not to improve everything else of the aproximate caliber, but are fairly better than the airborne weapons used by other countries.

The airborne forces are necessary for Russia, taking into account that its territory is not totally continuous. The Southern Kuril Islands, Sakhalin, Crimea, Kaliningrad, or even Transdnistria will have a permanent local force, but it can happen that at some point need airborne support, between other options.

[DDZ57]

Quote: eehnie

The Russian airborne platforms need not to improve everything else of the aproximate caliber, but are fairly better than the airborne weapons used by other countries.

If they are the best, then on the basis of what conflict over the past 40 years this conclusion was formulated and in what conflict the equipment was dropped from aircraft.
The transfer of heavy equipment by air was, but the unloading was at the airfield when the aircraft landed, and not by parachute.
Weak armor on the cars.
We take into account the increase in the range of air defense systems and aircraft missiles.
There is a possibility of the appearance of rocket and laser in space.
Those. what area must be cleared of anti-aircraft weapons in order to carry out the event you are proposing.
At the same time, we take into account the presence and condition of the transport aviation of the Russian Federation.
And how many years Lotus and Octopus have been sawing.
And the question arises: Are they needed? There are two answers. They are useless to protect against external threats, but they are necessary for use against their people.
Precisely because of the reasons that you name. And due to the fact that not always the local OMON will go to bludgeon the neighbors.
And the Varangians, please, it's like blue shovels in Baku.

[eehnie]

There are several options in which airborne troops can be used, surely the most importants are the support to the protection of non-continuous Russian territories, and also as a fast deployment tool, not necessarily in territories under control of the adversaries. In fact, of the territories that I cited in my previous comment, only in the case of Transdnistria Russia would need to pass over territory under control of the adversaries of Russia, and hit previously foreign air defenses. And all these territories are inhabited by Russian or pro-Russian majorities, Russia would not do something against the people there. Sometimes, simply there is not time to go to the airfields and do then the deployment from there.

Did you see in the last 40 years the use of helicopter with hanging towed artillery pieces? The United States loves it, and used it frequently. Well, this archaic and outdated form of airborne deployment is much less advanced than the Russian way to deploy airborne armament. But the Russian way can be used basically under the same terms, in addition to other scenarios that exceed the capabilities of helicopter mobility with hanging loads.

And answering to some comment of your previous answer, the 2S31 Vena that Azerbaijan purchased is not an airborne weapon, it is of the BMP-3 platform.

It is fairly clear that a potential new Russian weapon of 130mm (or 125mm) for long range fire, would improve the performance of the new South African weapon of 105mm, taking into account the higher potential of both calibers over the 105mm caliber. I cited the M-46, which production stopped 50 years ago, as a minimum for what can be expected from a potential new Russian weapon of 130mm for long range.

If India is replacing wasted barrels of 130mm by new 155mm spare parts, these weapons will be compared to the 2S35 Koalitsiya. And your comment about the 152mm caliber is fairly unfortunate. In fact, it is predictable that the 152mm caliber dominates over the 155mm caliber in the entire continental platform of Asia. In the referred to the 203mm and the 240mm calibers, it is likely that they will continue, and new weapons of these calibers are likely to emerge. These calibers have the right place in the well ballanced Russian range of calibers, that every time has lower number of redundant calibers.

[DDZ57]

Quote: eehnie

There are several options in which airborne troops can be used, surely the most importants are the support to the protection of non-continuous Russian territories, and also as a fast deployment tool, not necessarily in territories under control of the adversaries. In fact, of the territories that I cited in my previous comment, only in the case of Transdnistria Russia would need to pass over territory under control of the adversaries of Russia, and hit previously foreign air defenses. And all these territories are inhabited by Russian or pro-Russian majorities, Russia would not do something against the people there. Sometimes, simply there is not time to go to the airfields and do then the deployment from there.

Are you sure of the loyalty of the Russian or pro-Russian majority on foreign territory to the regime in power on the territory of the Russian Federation? For some reason, no one flees from the Baltics, Ukraine, etc. in the Russian Federation, they run there, and not vice versa. And the local population will show their teeth in full.
Silts fall normally - Ukraine is an example.
Now the situation is not the same as in the USSR. Deception will not work. The photo showed up.
The government buys villas in France, undergoes medical treatment in Germany and Israel, teaches children in England, and is engaged in patriotism and plundering of the population in the Russian Federation.
I already told you - the range of the air defense missiles is already reaching 300-400 km. How and what to clean the area from them?
The range of the aircraft missiles has probably already reached 300 km. The Russian Federation does not have aircraft of the 5th generation of the F-22 type. And the goal for them is like the IL-76 toy. Neither 76 nor cover fighters will see the moment of launch, and when they see the missiles, the F-22 will already be on the other side.
Predict the result of the operation? Or do you want to fill up the Russian Federation with coffins. It was already this, 2 MV. See the performance of Soviet landings. And so there are enough of their strategists and designers.
Are you sure that Russia would not do something against the people there? Me not.

Quote: eehnie

Did you see in the last 40 years the use of helicopter with hanging towed artillery pieces? The United States loves it, and used it frequently. Well, this archaic and outdated form of airborne deployment is much less advanced than the Russian way to deploy airborne armament. But the Russian way can be used basically under the same terms, in addition to other scenarios that exceed the capabilities of helicopter mobility with hanging loads.

The RF does not use this archaic method, because the RF guns that can be carried in this way weigh more than 3 tons. Those. MI8 can't pick them up. And MI-26 is very expensive and there are not so many of them.
Pulling by helicopter is not archaic, but a very successful tactical technique. And the American mobile system of direct fire support 120mm M-327 EFSS is very successful for local conflicts. Mobile Dragon Fire II is convenient for checkpoints. They also carry 777. Name, something like that in the Russian Federation?

Quote: eehnie

And answering to some comment of your previous answer, the 2S31 Vena that Azerbaijan purchased is not an airborne weapon, it is of the BMP-3 platform.

BMP-3, BMD-4, Shell - they have a large unification (5-roller chassis).
And for Lotus and Octopus there are already 7 roller chassis.
Of course, this is a cool version of unification with the first cars (which are required by orders of magnitude more).
And again, if a car with a 120mm mortar is cool, why did not Azerbaijan use it?

Quote: eehnie

It is fairly clear that a potential new Russian weapon of 130mm (or 125mm) for long range fire, would improve the performance of the new South African weapon of 105mm, taking into account the higher potential of both calibers over the 105mm caliber. I cited the M-46, which production stopped 50 years ago, as a minimum for what can be expected from a potential new Russian weapon of 130mm for long range.

In the Russian Federation there is a BM with a 130mm-Shore gun. Monster. The conflict in Karabakh showed what awaits them, (monsters).
And about the potential of 105mm LEO (South Africa) and about its comparison with the 155mm gun, read more closely. And then talk about 130mm.
Whatever they say about the Indians, they found the optimal result in replacing the M-46 130 with 155.
And this is how the Heranuki Poroyalu are often found among people ... There is a lot of noise ... but the "music" is not heard. ... even on a tuned piano. ...
(I have already cited this earlier, do not be very offended, but money in this case is sawn well)

[DDZ57]

Quote: eehnie

If India is replacing wasted barrels of 130mm by new 155mm spare parts, these weapons will be compared to the 2S35 Koalitsiya. And your comment about the 152mm caliber is fairly unfortunate. In fact, it is predictable that the 152mm caliber dominates over the 155mm caliber in the entire continental platform of Asia. In the referred to the 203mm and the 240mm calibers, it is likely that they will continue, and new weapons of these calibers are likely to emerge. These calibers have the right place in the well ballanced Russian range of calibers, that every time has lower number of redundant calibers.

And what is the failure of my comment on the 152mm caliber?
By Asia, you mean the Russian Federation and its satellites - there will be 300 million.
Toxic Iran and some freeloaders.
And financially a donut hole.
China, India, Japan, etc. - add up the numbers. And where is the dominance on the entire continental platform of Asia?
There are no prospects in the 152mm caliber. If the meaning of the word is clear, no.

The problems solved by the caliber 203mm can currently be solved by the caliber 155mm. And it came to the West, it came to China, India, etc. As a result, a joint memorandum on ballistics in 155mm caliber appeared.
Peonies and Malky live, probably because they have not yet fully found a replacement for only one of their very important characteristics.
West has this characteristic in the size of 155mm.
And so, looking at the characteristics of mobility, cross-country ability, range and rate of fire in a more or less serious conflict with an adequate enemy, the Karabakh scenario is projected onto the caliber 203m self-propelled gun.
The same fate can be seen in Tulip as in Malki and Peonies.
Caliber 155mm is a reasonable, reasonable, sufficient, unified and versatile solution.
It is optimal for local conflicts. And if it is global, then one northern animal will come to everyone, to everyone, and not just to the one in the photo.

And who are you going to fight with? If it's not a secret, if not with those who are in the photo (photo cited earlier).

Women then love and tr ... they need to, then they are peace-loving and will feed.
And you are going to fight them.

[eehnie]

Understanding well the concept of caliber (diameter), it is obvious to realize that the 152mm or 155mm have a size very different of the 203mm. It means that if new technical improvements are applied to design new weapons of 152mm or 155mm that can match some characteristic of veteran weapons of 203mm, applying the same concepts to the 203mm caliber, the advantage in power of the 203mm caliber remains. And more still in the case of the 240mm caliber. It means the caliber is unlikely to be avandoned, and every timm will be easier to add it to the new platforms. This is just basic understanding of what a caliber means technically.
About the 152mm caliber I completely disagree with your comments. The main issue that allowed not a stronger expansion of the caliber, was that Russia exported not the 2A36 Giatsing-B and the 2S5 Giatsint-S, because of being nuclear capable. Both China and India wanted them badly, but they have not been for sale. Most of the entire continental platform is not US friendly, and there the most advanced artillery designs are the Russian designs. By far. As an example, in China the 152mm caliber still dominates over the 155mm caliber. You can call also to Asia the pariah or the toxic continent if you want, but in the continental platform of Asia the West has denial access, except to South Korea and to the South West (Israel and sunni Arab countries).
The situation of Russia is far from the situation at the time of the Soviet Union. The situation is very different. Today Russia has over a 80% of the ethnically Russian population. Russia has a very homogeneous ethnic situation compared to the Soviet Union, and with the time Russian minorities in other former Sovietic countries tend to move to Russia, making stronger the ethnical composition of the country.
And returning to the issue, it is necessary to remember about air defenses when we talk about towed artillery hanging from helicopters. This way of deployment is only useful today against adversaries of very low technological level, because the operation is extremely vulnerable to any type of air defense, even the most primitive, and even to every type of man-portable anti-tank weapons. The airborne deployment under the Russian model with self-propelled airborne weapons deployed from aircraft flying higher and faster, is significantly safer in air defense environments, despite to be vulnerable still.
Other important detail, there is not unification between bhe BMD-4 and the BMP-3 platform, and is wrong to assimilate the weapons on the BMP-3 platform to airborne armament, because they are not prepared for it. Azerbaijan used not the 2S31 Vena, but the United States are using more primitive combinations between 120mm mortars and self propelled platforms. The new 152mm weapon of Russia that combines direct and indirect fire (mortar) was tested in the BMD-4 (M) platform under the 2S37 designation, but the platform resisted not the weapon.

[DDZ57]

Quote: eehnie

Understanding well the concept of caliber (diameter), it is obvious to realize that the 152mm or 155mm have a size very different of the 203mm. It means that if new technical improvements are applied to design new weapons of 152mm or 155mm that can match some characteristic of veteran weapons of 203mm, applying the same concepts to the 203mm caliber, the advantage in power of the 203mm caliber remains. And more still in the case of the 240mm caliber. It means the caliber is unlikely to be avandoned, and every timm will be easier to add it to the new platforms. This is just basic understanding of what a caliber means technically.

In addition to the power of ammunition, there are other indicators.
Are you familiar with the words logistics, unification and production economics?
Almost the entire world has made a choice.
But you want to send someone back to another dead end.
But this is my value judgment and I can be wrong.
Let time show.

[eehnie]

Standardization is an important tool to reduce redundancies, but is not to be applied in cases where there are not redundancies. Like explained before, the 203mm and the 240mm are very different to other existing artillery calibers, and have its own place in the range of calibers of the Russian armament.

Actually Russia keeps a very well balanced range of caliber with only a few redundant calibers, that are being eliminated in most of the cases. Between the 15 main groups, there are only 3 groups with some redundancies:

1.-) In the group of the 76mm caliber, the 73mm and the 82mm calibers are redundant. The 73mm caliber will disappear with the BMP-1. The 82mm caliber is also basically finished. There are some weapons being tested, but I do not think they will succeed. Between 50mm and 100mm Russia is likely to adopt only weapons of 57mm, 76mm or 100mm.

2.-) In the group of the 23mm caliber, the 25mm caliber still remains in some ship, but is likely to disappear soon. Maybe with the ships, or maybe with some previous modernization of the ships.

3.-) In the group between 120mm and 130mm, I still do not see a clear leader to remain. Between the 120mm, 122mm, 125mm and 130mm one is likely to take the lead by the end of the century and the rest would be redundant. Maybe two of them survive, one for man-portable weapons, and the other for heavy weapons.

Russia even can integrate soon grenade launchers in the standardized range of calibers, and only rockets and missiles would remain out.

[DDZ57]

Quote: eehnie

Standardization is an important tool to reduce redundancies, but is not to be applied in cases where there are not redundancies. Like explained before, the 203mm and the 240mm are very different to other existing artillery calibers, and have its own place in the range of calibers of the Russian armament.

Tasks that are solved by 203mm and 240mm can be solved by other calibers, weapon systems and methods.
This is accepted all over the world. About this already in the third round. It has already dawned on me to one point.
Write a project, offer it, maybe they will accept it and allocate money, but they can also plant it, and in the Russian Federation people like Zonenko are rolling.

[DDZ57]

Quote: eehnie

Actually Russia keeps a very well balanced range of caliber with only a few redundant calibers, that are being eliminated in most of the cases. Between the 15 main groups, there are only 3 groups with some redundancies:

1.-) In the group of the 76mm caliber, the 73mm and the 82mm calibers are redundant. The 73mm caliber will disappear with the BMP-1. The 82mm caliber is also basically finished. There are some weapons being tested, but I do not think they will succeed. Between 50mm and 100mm Russia is likely to adopt only weapons of 57mm, 76mm or 100mm.

You are a good connoisseur of RF weapons. But your list is not complete. In 82mm - two systems with completely different ammunition and 3 may appear uniting them. Also, a new MLRS in 80mm caliber has already appeared. 76mm for landowners do not. For your information - a 60mm mortar has already been cut. In feces. 57mm are two completely different systems, even in diameter, and so this is 57mm.
And for your information, at one time, when the 100-mm OPU 2A70 in the 80s was installed on the BMP - at that moment it was a temporary solution (as long as there are hulls of old 100mm shells), they were going to replace it. 40 years have passed. Everyone changes.
This is a masterpiece - a low ballistics weapon, in which elements of the barrel and shell of a projectile from a high ballistics weapon.

[eehnie]

To note that I included MRLS between rocket and missiles in my last comment referred to the armament out of the caliber system. Basically every system of rockets and missiles has its own caliber.

The 80mm MRLS is not officially adopted, and its origin is in the S-8 80mm unguided rockets used for Close Air Support from small aircrafts and helicopters. And the 80mm MRLS shares the same problem of too short range that exposes too much of the platform. I do not think 80mm MRLS will be adopted by the Russian Armed Forces. I see it more in the export side, and in the side of the non-military security forces, being a weapon in the man-portable range.

Also new 82mm weapons are in testing stage, I made a very short reference to them, and I do not expect to be adopted. I see also them more in the export side, and in the side of the non military security forces. The main is in the caliber that is redundant, and actually problem is basically finished, then I see difficult a return back to them. The worst part to apply standardization measures is always to give a right exit to the previous options, but in the case of the 82mm this is basically done, well solved today.

In order to find alternatives now, for the 82mm mortar caliber, and the old 60mm mortar caliber, the logical and right step, in agreement with standardization procedures, would be to check the options of new weapons that combine direct and indirect (mortar) fire , or pure mortars, in the 100mm, 76mm and 57mm calibers. And to adopt the best solutions, both in man-portable scheme, or attached to combat infantry vehicles without change the main role of combat infantry (would not be heavy artillery systems, like the 2S24 and the 2S41 really are not). Every modern improvement obtained for the new 82mm caliber weapons can be applied also successfully to the main Russian calibers (diameters) around.

Basically this was done with the 73mm caliber. The alternative was the 100mm weapon carried by the BMP-3, combat infantry vehicles. In this case the weapon was not adapted to man-portable scheme, in what would have been a natural replacement of the SPG-9. The other natural option for the replacement of the SPG-9 would be in the 76mm caliber.

[DDZ57]

Quote: eehnie

About the 152mm caliber I completely disagree with your comments. The main issue that allowed not a stronger expansion of the caliber, was that Russia exported not the 2A36 Giatsing-B and the 2S5 Giatsint-S, because of being nuclear capable. Both China and India wanted them badly, but they have not been for sale. Most of the entire continental platform is not US friendly, and there the most advanced artillery designs are the Russian designs. By far. As an example, in China the 152mm caliber still dominates over the 155mm caliber. You can call also to Asia the pariah or the toxic continent if you want, but in the continental platform of Asia the West has denial access, except to South Korea and to the South West (Israel and sunni Arab countries).

In the USSR, and later in the Russian Federation, there were two standard sizes of non-interchangeable shots (shells). K 2A36 and 2A65. The caliber is one, and everything else is different.
As for the advanced developments of the USSR, Khrushchev laid his mind on the backwardness of the USSR.
In the 70s, when the USSR sawed Hyacinth and did not pay attention to the Canadian. J. Bull at this time sawed 45 calories. trunk. Bull has a range of 40 km. Find it yourself at the Hyacinth. Bull Results - Israel, South Africa.
I would be interested in a reference to the fact that 152 dominates over 155 in China. This is from the evil one.
In 1987, the Chinese company NORINCO first presented a model of the 155-mm Type 88 towed howitzer-gun (also known as W88 / 89).
In the 90s, licensed production of the GHN-45 / APU under an Austrian license was started in China (this was mentioned earlier, you need to read more carefully).
And watch the latest exhibitions in China and its export expansion.
The West has and had access not only to the countries you named. Your conclusion is again from the evil one.
Iran had 155mm guns under the Shah. Subsequently, in the 80s, through Libya, he received the Austrian GC-45. Iraq received it even earlier through Jordan even earlier. And they used them against each other. Iran is still developing this caliber.
Bull moved to Europe after his arrest. Space Research announced its closure (≈1980), but in 1982 it was restored in Belgium.
The production of this howitzer was carried out in Austria by NORICUM for the Austrian army, which subsequently developed its modification GHN-45. Later, NORICUM also created a modification of the GH-52 / APU with a 52 caliber barrel. The license for the production of this howitzer was also purchased by the Brazilian company Engesa. In the 80s, howitzers were bought by Kuwait, Libya, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Thailand.
The USSR at this time saws 2A65 (firing range 30 km).
In the 90s, licensed production of the GHN-45 / APU under an Austrian license was started in Finland.
Already under a Finnish license, Egypt began production of a modification of this howitzer with a 45 caliber barrel providing a range of fire up to 42 km and a rate of fire up to 10 rounds per minute, as well as its modifications with a 52 caliber barrel.
In 2002, Denel announced the creation of the G5-2000 howitzer with a 52 caliber barrel and a range of 67 kilometers, and then the G-6/52 ACS was created on its basis.
And where are the advanced technologies of the Russian Federation here?
Early 2000s. They began to saw the Coalition. With its own charge and projectile. The third standard size. Shoot the logistician.
If a projectile from 2A65 approaches 2S35, then on the contrary, it is a big question.
And to hyacinth - the same as from 2A65.
The leaders have done the construction. Like that Japanese pianist.

[eehnie]

For the 152mm Russia achieved the biggest range with the 2A36 and the 2S5, in addition to the nuclear capability. Russia needed no alternative until now. Actually a new generation of weapons has been developed:

1.-) 2A73 tank-antitank weapon, likely to be combined with the armata platform to create the "T-14 152mm".
2.-) 2A88 for long range, combined with the armata platform to create the 2S35 Koalitsiya.
3.-) 2A89 that combines direct and indirect fire (mortar), likely to be combined with several platforms, and basically would take the place of the retired 160mm mortars.

The prospect for the 152mm caliber is very good. If Russia wants to export these weapons mounted in more modest or veteran platforms, or even in towed structures, it would be a strong market for them, especially in the continental platform of Asia, but not only there.

Every source will tell you that China still has much bigger number of artillery pieces of 152mm than of 155mm, and certainly the 155mm caliber makes less sense for them with the time. China is very expansive move with fast new iterations of weapons, and many redundant projects and calibers, but at some point China will need to begin to optimize options, and to eliminate redundancies.

Iran is not developing the 155mm caliber, simply is updating its older armament. And Thailand also abandoned its pro-Western bias. Like the reduction of the Sovietic and Chinese armament is evident in Europe and is likely to continue, the reduction of the Western armament in the continental platform of Asia (plus some Islands) started more recently but is also ongoing, and likely will kill the 155mm caliber in the area in some decades, with the exception of the South West (sunni Arab countries and Israel) and South Korea.

[DDZ57]

All perspectives have been explained to you, but you are again about yours.
We have different sources, exhibitions, conferences, etc.
Already walked in a circle several times. You mean Thomas, you mean Erema.
Everyone will remain unconvinced. Spring will show.
Or a humpbacked grave will fix it. Those. me.

[DDZ57]

Quote: eehnie

The situation of Russia is far from the situation at the time of the Soviet Union. The situation is very different. Today Russia has over a 80% of the ethnically Russian population. Russia has a very homogeneous ethnic situation compared to the Soviet Union, and with the time Russian minorities in other former Sovietic countries tend to move to Russia, making stronger the ethnical composition of the country.

Who do you mean by ethnic Russian?
Emptying Far East and North.
More than five million of the most educated and able-bodied population of the Russian Federation dumped into the "decaying West".
Nat. minorities have long arrived in the Russian Federation and there they were welcomed into "open arms."
On what channel did you hear about the strengthening of the ethnic composition of the country?
This is like the words of one Russian who is in a bunker and said that EU citizens come to Russia to be vaccinated with Sputnik, and they buy a certificate from themselves that they are vaccinated by Pfizer ...
An outside observer's advice is to turn off the zombie and stop smoking or taking ...

[eehnie]

The census of Russia is not talking about a decline in the percentage of Russian population in Russia Since 1926 the percentage of Russian population has been above the 80% in Russia. And with a new census ongoing, soon new updated data will be ready. In the Union, the percentage of ethnically Russian population was around a 50%. It is totally wrong to compare both situations. Russia is a much more homogeneous country ethnically than the Soviet Union was, and is much stronger in this sense than the Soviet Union was.

[DDZ57]

Was it on RT or did Manka tell you the golden pen?
Or you they are.

[eehnie]

It is data from the census of Russia since 1991, and from the Soviet Union previous to 1991. People ethnically Russian is referred to the concept used in the census. They are official data.

[DDZ57]

Let's look at the 2021 census data. They can be interesting.
But we take into account that we are dealing with cheaters. It is not easy that "Dead Souls" were born in Russia and still live.
The "dead souls" voting scheme was revealed at the elections in the Novosibirsk region. https://tayga.info/172163

[DDZ57]

Quote: eehnie

And returning to the issue, it is necessary to remember about air defenses when we talk about towed artillery hanging from helicopters. This way of deployment is only useful today against adversaries of very low technological level, because the operation is extremely vulnerable to any type of air defense, even the most primitive, and even to every type of man-portable anti-tank weapons.

The tactics of the operation of helicopter airmobile units, including those carrying out the transportation of cargo on an external sling, is optimal and tested by many civilized states and has been used for several decades. The flight, depending on the situation on the route, can be carried out at different heights. There is a cover. The flight route is being checked and a bunch of other activities. You can criticize someone who took part in such an operation and has the appropriate knowledge, equipment, weapons and personnel, and much more.
Tell me at least when, where and how many helicopters performing such an operation were shot down?
About the IL-76 shot down in Donbas, I gave you an example.
Neither in World War II, nor later there were landings with equipment.
And in response, a hackneyed disc about the steepness of equipment from the Russian Federation is turned on, i.e. about carrots.

[eehnie]

The Il-76 shut-down in Donetsk was taking-off or landing, I would need to check, but really was in range of man-portable armament for this reason. This is not really a situation that would be repeated in an airborne operation of Russia, because the airfields would not be accessible to the adversaries of Russia with short range armament.

Otherwise, the Il-76/78/82 is not accessible to man-portable armament. But helicopters with hanging towed artillery are vulnerable to man-portable air defense armament, and even to man-portable anti-tank armament every second of the fly. This is a very important disadvantage, the list of helicopters lost is much more important still than the list of Il-76/78/82. Of course this is the tactic of the West, of the "civilized", and must be approved by all (because they have not alternative). The reality is that the Russian way for deployment of airborne armament, being vulnerable still, is significantly less vulnerable than the archaic tactic used by the West. Towed artillery pieces hanging from helicopters was something modern in the 1960s, maybe until the war of Vietnam, but in Vietnam this tactic helped not to the United States to avoid the defeat, and since then, is only usefull against very very low technological level adversaries , in situations less and less common with the time.

[DDZ57]

Not available today, will be available tomorrow.
Who, claims that the Beech will not be hidden somewhere. An example is needed.
There is no list of downed helicopters.
As well as there is no answer why the largest operator of BM "Vena" did not use them in NKR.
Any IL-76/78/82 shot down from your list is more important than a dozen helicopters and the number of corpses will be greater.
And a rocket is not always needed, look at the number of aircraft crashes in 2021. In the RF.

[eehnie]

Her you have a link:

https://lostarmour.info/aviation/

If you see not the list in the begin, press submit.

In the same site you can check as example the aviation loses of the United States in Afghanistan, and many other examples ..

[DDZ57]

Problems with translation on the site you specified.

And just for reference: the USSR did not carry external sling guns, but at one time in Afghanistan it lost more than 330 helicopters and 110 aircraft.
It's easier for you with English. So designate.

[DDZ57]

Quote: eehnie

Other important detail, there is not unification between bhe BMD-4 and the BMP-3 platform, and is wrong to assimilate the weapons on the BMP-3 platform to airborne armament, because they are not prepared for it. Azerbaijan used not the 2S31 Vena, but the United States are using more primitive combinations between 120mm mortars and self propelled platforms. The new 152mm weapon of Russia that combines direct and indirect fire (mortar) was tested in the BMD-4 (M) platform under the 2S37 designation, but the platform resisted not the weapon.

Vienna was created on the BMP-3 platform (6 rollers) (weight-19,2 tons). The BMD-4M has its own body (5 rollers), this machine is assembled from unified units and assemblies of the BMP-3. Lotus has its own body (7 rollers) and again unified units and assemblies of the BMP-3. And the weight is 18t.
Did you save a lot? New landing vehicles are more expensive than a tank. Great.
Kurganets will appear, what's next.
So explain all the same. If a mortar gun on a light tracked chassis is so cool, from your point of view, then why were they not used in the NCR.
And Azerbaijan has the largest number of these cool "combat" vehicles.
Individual (on the knees) production in the Russian Federation of combat vehicles that have no analogues, this is very cool by modern standards.

[eehnie]

Do not understand me wrong, in the new generation of Russian artillery, I would include the 120mm weapon only in the airborne platform, because the platform resisted not the new 2A89 152mm weapon. The 2S37 was not possible, then the 2S42 is the best option that can be achieved for airborne purposes. For the rest of new platforms I would include the 2A89 of 152mm that combines direct and indirect fire first.

The 2S31 is not airborne. I understand why was not adopted by Russia, and why would not be part of the new generation of artillery pieces likely to be adopted in Russia. But the 2S31 remains competitive compared to other 120mm self propelled mortars of Western origin, and it is a good option to export. Like the 2S38, 2S39, 2S40, 2S41 and 2S43.

The best of the new generation of Russian artillery is still to come. New projects of new weapons mounted on the new platforms will join the 2S25-SDM1, 2S35 and 2S42.

[DDZ57]

Quote: eehnie

The best of the new generation of Russian artillery is still to come. New projects of new weapons mounted on the new platforms will join the 2S25-SDM1, 2S35 and 2S42.

The predicted result, such as in 1941.
Such as the roadsides in Afghanistan (1979-1989).
Bekaa Valley 1982
In the deserts of Iraq 1991 etc.
In Grozny 1994
NKR 2020
October 26, 2021 - the first combat use of Bayraktar attack drones in Donbas against artillery, while the UAV did not cross the contact line.
Good luck in promotion and advertising.

[eehnie]

Certainly you seem to do the opposite promotion, or at least your points are very very negative. And I do not see it right (while Im not rating your comments). It is obvious that new combinations of new weapons that are known and new platforms that are also known will emerge in the following years. Options like the 2A89 152mm mounted in the boomerang platform. And many more. It is not propaganda. It is just 2 + 2 = 4.

[DDZ57]

What dimension do you live in?
In the comments to
https://topwar.ru/188314-prezident-rf-davajte-vspomnim-kto-vzjal-shturmom-berlin-ne-amerikancy-ili-anglichane-a-krasnaja-armija.html#comment-id-11871245
there is a short list of destroyed enterprises of the Russian Federation (full - more than 50 thousand.). Those. competencies and technologies have been lost, and there are no personnel.
We take into account the fact that there were a lot of enterprises in other republics.
No questions arise.
I gave a link, on the enterprise where the main "milkmaid of Rostec" worked, he is also a "Trojan horse", and so on. You read, go to the company's website and maybe you will discover something familiar for yourself that you will speak about. And the conclusion will pop up by itself and there will be no illusions. Sometimes it can turn out 2 + 2 = 3.

And read carefully -
October 26, 2021 - the first combat use of Bayraktar attack drones in Donbas against artillery, while the UAV did not cross the line of contact.
Those. yesterday. And remember Karabakh 2020. last year at this time.
And you keep trying to prove something to me.

[eehnie]

All what I'm explaining here is from basic technical understanding And it is what can be expected from the Russian Armed Forces.

Sometimes the industry have their own interests but it is not the industry who must adapt the demand of the Russian Armed Forces to their offer. It is the industry who must adapt its offer to the demand of the Russian Armed Forces.

And in the way some companies fall and other companies emerge. If I must say, I saw worse figures as example in Spain, a country fairly smaller than Russia (and also much less ethnically homogeneous). Compared to all the Western countries Russia keep a much stronger public industry, in all the key strategic sectors.

When you compare the artillery of Russia you cite many countries, Most of them have some good single achievements, but no-one like Russia has good level in the entire range of calibers and platforms. No-one can create like Russia a complete generation of new artillery systems. Not even the United States or China.

[DDZ57]

And on the occasion - the buns will be raked by high-ranking "co-authors".
Sent by a comrade from Basalt. This is his comrade. I don't know what triggered it. Everything is true in the text, there are still living witnesses.

Gennady Mokrousov - Notes | OK.RU

Obukhov and s - a lot of reports, but few proclamations. Here is my opinion of him. Maybe I'm wrong. Under his leadership, he worked for 8 years, and this is enough to understand a person.
Obukhov Anatoly Stepanovich.

Completely - https://ok.ru/profile/570550073213/statuses

[hostel]

In the second direction, you must not forget about our Flower Garden, including a mortar of special power

[Lelik76]

I read the comments here, some "experts" how smart they are.
For example, I'm interested in looking at modern computers for the LMS at work, I'll tell you why.
He served as a conscript in the artillery brigade on the ACS 2S5. In 1996-97 he was at the shooting as a division calculator (well, the same "computer" for the MSA). In my command vehicle based on MTLBu, there was a computer for calculating data, occupying half the volume of the machine. A monitor consisting of lamps for 2 lines of text, and a metal keyboard with a bunch of different specials. buttons and numbers (there were no letters buttons). We decided somehow from the beginning. headquarters to start this shaitan machine and try to shoot with its help. It took about 5 minutes to enter all the data for the calculation and get the result (well, we really didn't train before, but that was not difficult, especially since the officer and I already communicated with the computers not bad). They spat to hell, I took my PUO, a pencil and the result appeared in 10-15 seconds. Corrections for the wind, the temperature, though according to the table, was recalculated after 20-30 minutes during the firing, but we did not shoot like crazy with the constant change of the positions of the batteries. So during this time, of course, my military specialty has stepped forward. However, like electronics. And guidance from a drone is probably a song at all. We did the calculations with the data from the turntable once, of course a gem, with the data from the ground spotters it is much simpler.

[DDZ57]

Quote: Lelik76

For example, I'm interested in seeing modern computers for the LMS in operation

There is a video on the Internet on the work of the department of the Czech Danes in Karabakh.
And a little about Dana in the picture.
The disadvantage is the 152mm caliber (short range), but even taking this into account, the NKR could not oppose anything to them.
Danes in Azerbaijan were combined into one unit and were worn on all fronts. Tracked vehicles provided them with support as needed (resource).
New technologies in artillery were proposed by J. Bull in the early 70s.
But big countries did not pay attention to them.
These technologies were the first to be used and applied by Israel (1973) and South Africa (1977-1978).

[DDZ57]

Quote: Lelik76

some "specialists" how smart they are.

The opinion of one of the "smart specialist".
I was working at Marconi which developed the Fire-Control computer for the G-5 and G-6. Previous comments have talked about SA being at high altitude. The final height of the shell basically negated any difference between sea level and Luatla range. The first round fired with the fire-control system landed 5 meters from its target at a range exceeding 40 kms !!! When I read the specification for the computer, I saw that one of the algorithms was to take into account the coriolus force - something I'd never thought of before.

But for some reason, dear Russians who use someone's computers, someone else's Internet, someone else's phones, cars, etc., do not ask questions to these product groups.

But keeping in mind the technology of the USSR-RF: in my command vehicle based on MTLBu there was a computer for calculating data, occupying half the volume of the machine. A monitor consisting of lamps for 2 lines of text, and a metal keyboard with a bunch of different specials. buttons and numbers (there were no letters buttons). We decided somehow from the beginning. headquarters to start this shaitan machine and try to shoot with its help. It took about 5 minutes to enter all the data for the calculation and get the result (well, we really didn't train before, but that was not difficult, especially since the officer and I already communicated with computers not bad).
And adhering to the position that there are two points of view: one’s own, and the other is wrong.
They begin to draw some conclusions about the technique (which they have not seen or used), but which others have, which they began to develop from the beginning of the 70s. And the process in this area did not stop and does not stop. This cannot be, because I do not perceive it.
There is no reaction at all to a bunch of examples of events.
On this topic, I have already cited the opinion of M. Khodarenko. And I was accused of all sins.
“The USA is ahead of us forever. We don't even understand what they are doing. "
“In Russia, unfortunately, the NGAD program is not discussed in the public arena. We do not understand the goals that the Americans have set for themselves. It is unclear how far they have advanced in their implementation, for example, in the field of the same radio photonics, that is, in the study of optical radiation and RF / microwave signals for radar tracking purposes. That is, we don’t know if we can see the Americans, and we don’t know what they see, ”a senior representative of the Russian aviation industry told Gazeta.Ru.
The expert believes that the topic of NGAD is not discussed in Russia due to "ignorance of the texture".
“We can only hope that such a discussion is still going on at some secret level in our country. However, at the expert level, there is almost complete silence about NGAD. Except for scoring some of the most common phrases. And this is a big problem. The USA is ahead of us here forever. Now we do not even understand what they are doing, ”concluded the interlocutor of Gazeta.Ru.
See completely: (https://vpk.name/news/540094_ssha_operedili_nas_navsegda_my_dazhe_ne_ponimaem_chto_oni_delayut.html).
But this seems to be manifested not only in aviation, but also in other areas.

As a result, one not very good conclusion suggests itself - it seems that the effect of the laws of Carlo Cipolla was especially manifested in this territory.

[Flurry]

The NGAD program is not discussed due to lack of texture, not ignorance. Nobody knows what the next generation should do. So far, there are no prerequisites for some kind of breakthrough, such as a stable motor hypersound or all-aspect radio camouflage in a wide range. Maybe ROFAR will be implemented, all tasks will be performed only by AI without human participation, etc. But these are expected evolutionary improvements, and China and the Russian Federation will catch up with them with some delay. Breakthrough achievements do not come out of nowhere, they are nurtured for years, many scientific groups are working on them, exchanging experience, going to conferences, publishing, etc. So who should be in the know.

[Gromovanton]

Thanks for the great review article! I liked that it was short, and of course, you can write a dissertation on the topic and more than one. I looked at the comments - which is what I like about the site, often the comments are no less interesting than the articles themselves.