Luger's pistol - heir to Borchardt's pistol

161

My first acquaintance with the Luger pistol took place in early childhood. Then the Frunze factory of plastic products produced just such a "Luger", and there were black, white and ... pink pistols! But among us, boys from Proletarskaya Street, only black ones were valued!

- We are glad, - continued Ostap, - to meet in this alarming atmosphere a devoted fighter for the homeland.
“Um… yes! - Ippolit Matveyevich hissed proudly, remembering with what hungry ardor he danced Lezginka not far from Sioni.
“Yes,” whispered Ostap. “We hope to hit the enemy with your help. I'll give you parabellum.
“Don't,” said Kislyarsky firmly.
"Twelve Chairs" Ilya Ilf and Evgeny Petrov.

History firearms weapons. So, last time we settled on the fact that the military wanted Hugo Borchardt to redesign his pistol according to their requirements, in order to get a pistol of less weight, and with a shortened rear end. In addition, they wanted the designer to shorten the pistol itself, and make the angle between the barrel and the grip larger, so that it was more comfortable to hold in the hand. And also that the pistol is equipped with an automatic safety device, which will definitely increase the shooter's safety.

Luger's pistol - heir to Borchardt's pistol
Georg Johann Luger (1849-1923)

And here it turned out that for some reason Hugo Borchardt himself did not do all this, and this work was done for him by his friend and colleague at DWM Georg Luger. Austrian by nationality, he entered the world of weapons thanks to his joint work with Ferdinand von Mannlicher, and by the time he joined Loewe's company in 1891, he had been developing rifle bolts for 20 years. In 1894 he was sent to the United States to offer Borchardt's pistol to the American army. But the trip ended unsuccessfully, and the gun itself caused a flurry of criticism. And here the most important thing happened: Luger thought about the comments made, tried to take them into account and eventually created his own pistol, which won worldwide recognition.




Pistol "Luger" М1899. The pistol was very easy to disassemble. It was enough to lower the locking bolt - the lever in front of the trigger guard with a grooved button down, remove the square cover of the trigger socket, and you could remove the barrel along with the receiver frame by pushing it forward. In front of the washer of the connecting rod mechanism, you can also see the "tooth" of the lever of the handle safety. Royal Arsenal, Leeds

He did not come up with anything essentially new, but took and only slightly altered the weapon of his colleague, but in such a successful way that he ended up with a completely new pistol! Suffice it to say that in the same patents for him there is only the name of Georg Luger, but the name of Borchardt is absent, and ... he did not file a lawsuit against Luger regarding the rights of authorship.


Diagram of the design of the first samples of the Luger pistol. The back of the pistol still protrudes noticeably back

Although their similarity in a number of parameters was obvious. And so much so that until 1904, in some European countries, this weapon was called the Borchardt-Luger pistol, which, apparently, tried to emphasize either their similarity or the continuity of the design of the latter. However, this pistol also became known for its commercial name "Parabellum", which was the second part of the famous Latin phrase: Si vis pacem, para bellum ("If you want peace, prepare for war"), which belonged to the Roman military writer Flavius ​​Vegetius. The cartridge for this pistol received the same name and was registered under it: 9x19 Parabellum.


Diagram of a Luger pistol from an American patent of 1904.


Diagram of the action of the Luger pistol from the American patent of 1904.


The kinematic diagram of the operation of the bolt and handle safety (at the top, the safety button is not released and the pistol bolt cannot work, at the bottom the button is released and the shutter works) of the Luger pistol from the American patent of 1904.


Bolt carrier with barrel and bolt, and pistol frame with grip safety. The magazine for the pistol is shown separately. Diagram from a 1904 American patent.


Barrel with bolt carrier, bolt and crank mechanism. Photo by LugerMan


At the beginning of the century, there was a craze for pistols-carbines. They tried to make them on the basis of almost all pistols produced at that time. So "Luger" also did not escape the fate of being turned into a carbine, for which it was equipped with a long barrel, forend and, of course, a removable stock. Experimental model ML 1900. Royal Arsenal, Leeds

So, what was this pistol, which is still considered the standard of this kind of short-barreled weapon? "Luger" had an automatic with a short stroke of the barrel and at the same time its rigid locking, which was carried out by a bolt controlled by a connecting rod-crank mechanism. When its two levers were in the "dead center" position, that is, immediately at the time of the shot, the barrel was locked in the strongest way, which, incidentally, achieved the use of such a powerful cartridge in this pistol.


The bolt carrier of the pistol had the shape of ... a tuning fork. The barrel was screwed into it on the thread, the parts of the connecting rod-crank mechanism were attached to pins. Photo Alain Daubresse website www.littlegun.be

Immediately after the shot, the barrel and all related mechanisms were fed back by the recoil force. After a short rollback of the barrel together with the bolt, the levers of the crank-crank mechanism were removed from the "dead center", since one of them "ran over" the protrusion on the fixed frame of the pistol, after which both levers folded up and unlocked the bolt. Then everything was as usual: the compressed mainspring pushed the bolt forward, he pushed the next cartridge out of the store and sent it to the chamber, while the barrel itself was locked again, since the levers were in the "dead center" position.


Detailed diagram of the pistol "Parabellum"

An important design feature of the Luger pistol, in contrast to Borchardt's pistol, was the installation of levers. Now, when folded, they rested not on the lamellar return spring, but on the protrusion of the pistol frame. Well, he moved the return leaf spring itself to the handle, and then completely replaced it with a twisted one. All this made it possible to reduce both the dimensions and the weight of the pistol without any deterioration in its service and operational data. The ejector is located on the top of the bolt, and at the same time serves as an indicator of the presence of a cartridge in the chamber. The sleeve after the shot is thrown out by a spring reflector that is located to the right, left and up. The fuse box is located on the frame on the left. When lowered, it stops the movement of the receiver back and locks the trigger, although the striker can remain cocked. The magazine latch is located on the left side of the handle near the base of the trigger guard. This was also an innovation for that time. Prior to this, the latch was usually located at the bottom of the handle at the very base.


Assembly drawing

At the same time, a noticeably greater angle of inclination of the handle of the "Luger" at an angle of 120 °, in comparison with the Borchardt pistol, helped to naturally hold the pistol in the hand when aiming and firing, and the recoil when fired was felt as very soft.

Georg Luger presented his first development in 1898, when he was 49 years old. It was a 7,65 mm pistol with a barrel length of 122 mm, which was named Versuchsmodelle III (experimental model No. 3) and was immediately presented to the Swiss army. The pistol was tested in 1899, and showed that it is much more perfect than its predecessor. And already on May 4, 1900, by a special parliamentary decree, it was adopted by the Swiss army under the name "Pistole, Ordonnanz 1900, System Borchardt-Luger". A contract was signed under which DWM pledged to supply the Swiss with 3000 of these pistols.


Swiss pistol "Parabellum" model "06/24", that is, this is a model of 1906, but it was released in 1924. Length 215,3 mm, barrel length 122 mm, empty pistol weight 891 g. Magazine capacity - 8 rounds. Photo Alain Daubresse website www.littlegun.be

Following Switzerland, a number of other countries have shown interest in this 7,65 mm pistol. Commercial orders came in from Brazil, Holland, Portugal, Russia and Turkey. In 1902, 1000 Luger pistols of the 1900 model of the year were purchased by the US government for testing.


Army pistol holster "Parabellum". Photo by LugerMan

In Germany, the Luger pistol began to be tested in the summer of 1902. The competition was more than solid, because a large military order was supposed, which could literally make its winner rich. Therefore, almost all models of automatic pistols available at that time in Europe were presented on it: 7,65-mm K93 pistol, 7,65-mm Luger M1900 pistol, 7,63-mm Mannlicher M1900, 9-mm " Mars ", 7,63-mm" Schwarzlose "М1893" Standard ", 9-mm" Browning "and 7,63-mm" Mauser "K96. They were tested by the German military for a long time: and only by 1904 they were able to finally identify the winner. It turned out to be a slightly modified Luger pistol during tests, the caliber of which in 1903 was changed from 7,65-mm to 9-mm, for a new pistol cartridge with a cylindrical sleeve developed a year earlier, although it was altered from the same "bottle" 7,65 mm. And in the same year, the head of the DWM company came up with the name "Parabellum" for him.

As a result, on December 12, 1904 "Marine model of 1904" a Luger pistol chambered for a 9-mm cartridge was adopted by the German naval headquarters for the sailors of the German fleet, and on August 22, 1908, under the name P08 (Pistole 08), the Kaiser's army also adopted it as its standard weapon. After that, DWM began to use the name "Parabellum" only for commercial models P08.


"Marine model" arr. 1906 with a butt holster. Length 270 mm, barrel length 150 mm, weight without cartridges 970 g. Photo by LugerMan


P04 "marine model" pistols (manufactured in 1915). There is no handle safety in the top photo. This is a characteristic feature of the 1904 model. Moreover, they removed the automatic fuse, which turned off when the handle was gripped, for safety reasons. Because of it, many shooters did not put the pistol on the manual safety, which could lead to an accidental shot if the pistol fell. Royal Arsenal, Leeds

To be continued ...
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  1. +3
    31 October 2021 05: 39
    “Yes,” whispered Ostap. “We hope to defeat the enemy with your help. I will give you parabellum
    Right now, the legendary pistol is offended, some Steyer got a biblical quote from the author himself, but not Parabellum. laughing
    1. +20
      31 October 2021 06: 39
      But he was awarded a quote from a good film.
      “Don't,” said Kislyarsky firmly.
      and I remember the soft Kislyarsky more in the performance of the incomparable Gottlieb Roninson. Thanks to the author for the article!
    2. +15
      31 October 2021 07: 03
      Choosing from "Shpakovsky" wink "Friday-Saturday" - with the dachas of the general secretaries and Sunday - with "the history of Luger", the second one is definitely closer to me, more interesting and informative!
      Purely personal observations and feelings. People with a "limited perception of the world" rarely turn to the thread about Maxim, Colt. I sincerely hope that from Saturday's article by Vyacheslav Olegovich, no hamsters by inertia will look in, in order to “throw a stone at the professor of the“ dissident ”who encroached on“ Saint Raisa Gorbachev ”!
      Good day everyone! We have finally snowed !!!
      1. +7
        31 October 2021 07: 18
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        "Luger's story", the second one is definitely closer to me, more interesting and informative!

        Nothing is clear, what is closer to you: literary translation or the author's thinking? Well, he translates well, well done, but as soon as he begins to reason, so sadness is a misfortune!
        Articles on weapons, armor, castles from the author are not bad.
        1. +9
          31 October 2021 07: 51
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Articles on weapons, armor, castles from the author are not bad.

          Yes, the Council of the Russian Humanitarian Science Foundation of the Russian Academy of Sciences also thought so. Thanks!
          1. +16
            31 October 2021 09: 02
            Good morning, Vyacheslav! smile
            Walking at night, in between times,
            Carry Parabellum with you.

            (From my unpublished) laughing laughing

            Thanks for the article, I seem to know this machine well, and I shot from it, but all the same, it was interesting to read. I have already written here about the pistol-carbine from the store of the State Historical Museum, I just don't remember whether I said or not that on our very high-quality pistol there was not only the manufacturer's mark, but even a serial number, only a one-digit assembly number. The pistol belonged to Anastas Mikoyan when he was "Baku Commissar" and was donated to the museum by his family.

            1. +3
              31 October 2021 12: 04
              Kostya, greetings. I was interested: how is it possible that there is no manufacturer's mark, but also a serial number ?.
              Perhaps this is some kind of "left" trunk. How did Tolstopyatov make his own automata or "NESUNS"? I doubt that in the 10s of the 20th century there was a similar security system as it is now
              1. +2
                31 October 2021 16: 01
                there is no manufacturer's mark, but also a serial number ?.

                Hello, Glory. hi
                None of my colleagues have come across this before, and we have not received an answer to this question. And the workmanship was excellent: blue bluing, walnut stock and forend, the store was nickel-plated, so the branded production does not pull in any way. Nesuns also do not fit in any way, on each part the same number, as far as I remember, it was "4".
                1. +3
                  31 October 2021 17: 09
                  Quote: Sea Cat
                  it was "4".

                  The price in $ is going off scale today !!!
                2. +3
                  31 October 2021 18: 14
                  Yeah. Krasava: blue blued, walnut, nickel plating. Well, it doesn't look like a serial one.
                  By God, inevitably, you get into conspiracy: special order, piece production.
                  But the RCP (b) did not have extra money to arm, frankly, tertiary party workers with such pistols (for that time).
                  In GV conditions, again, * tall ones had prettier pistols. "
                  1. +3
                    31 October 2021 18: 26
                    only the RCP (b) did not have extra money


                    Were. A revolution requires a lot of money, a lot.
              2. +4
                31 October 2021 17: 09
                Probably, it was a special order to Russia, I wonder for whom? And how the Bolsheviks wrested him later, it looks like the confiscation of the revolution)))
                1. +4
                  31 October 2021 17: 31
                  According to what we managed to find out in conversations with A. Mikoyan's relatives, ALL "Baku commissars" were armed with these pistols, and it seems that on the personal order of Lenin, but all this is not accurate. Mikoyan was not in Baku during the well-known events and he survived, and "Luger" was with him. That's all that is known. As for the "confiscation of the revolution," I'm not sure, the Bolsheviks had money, but the revolution needed a lot of money, so buying a dozen, albeit very good pistols, could hardly have made a serious hole in their budget. And there, the devil only knows how it really was. smile
                  1. +3
                    31 October 2021 17: 41
                    I think you are right, I did not know about the batch of this weapon, the sponsors of the CPSU (b) drove them Lugers through the Germans for the needs of the revolution, therefore, without the stigma and number, the Kaiser's intelligence work was sensible. I wonder where other specimens settled, probably in the Transcaucasus.
                    1. +3
                      31 October 2021 17: 50
                      ... the sponsors of the CPSU (b) drove them the Lugers through the Germans for the needs of the revolution,

                      But this is an interesting idea, I somehow did not think about the specific "weapon" help from sponsors. Then it begins to clear up with the stigma. Think beautifully, Igor. smile drinks
                      Maybe they "settled" in Transcaucasia, and maybe in England, although to this day I don’t remember that such a model has surfaced at auctions, or in print.
                      1. +2
                        31 October 2021 20: 16
                        And, after all, it's true: the version explains a lot
                      2. +2
                        1 November 2021 11: 06
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        I somehow did not think about the specific "weapon" help from sponsors.

                        Which sponsors are you talking about? Is it about those who went to St. Petersburg with the patriot Yudenich or walked with the patriot Krasnov on the Don, or who armed the patriot Kolchak? And the Russian people for you like, wash, shave? So the people washed all the patriots and shaved at the same time.
                      3. +1
                        1 November 2021 15: 30
                        Which sponsors are you talking about?

                        About those same ones, or do you think that Bronstein and Ulyanov "made" the revolution with pocket savings? Well, blessed is he who believes. laughing
                        And the Russian people for you like, wash, shave?

                        And the people here, from what side, why did they ask him, why did they consult with him?
                        Again baby talk at the level of the lovely Tatra. If only they did not go into the topic on which you specifically and have nothing to say, patret ... fake.
                  2. +3
                    31 October 2021 18: 35
                    Purely theoretically. Wealthy people lived in Baku and it is quite possible that the Kents conspired and ordered such pistols for themselves. Then: "in the name of the revolution" weapons were confiscated, then ... Do you remember: "good grandfather Lenin"? And such a story appeared: Lenin ordered to equip everyone with such a pistol.
                    What were the pistols the commissars had when they were arrested, FIG knows. Perhaps, AI, somewhere "picked him up in those months?
                    1. +1
                      31 October 2021 19: 47
                      Well. this is a "mystery covered in darkness", and you can dream up anything you want, since there was such a time, there was enough ground for any fantasy, including. and about the "good grandfather" Lenin. laughing
                2. +3
                  31 October 2021 20: 51
                  In the 30s, 100 parabellums + remnants of PMV were ordered in the USSR
            2. +3
              31 October 2021 22: 09
              On the Internet there is a photo of a similar "carbine" assembled with a similar telescopic sight. And the signature - a pistol of the Bohard-Luger system G.K. Ordzhonikidze 1920.
              Also in the Roosevelt house in New York there is a similar "carbine" donated by William II to the 26th US President Theodore Roosevelt!
              They write that Wilhelm himself loved this "carbine" as he could not use ordinary hunting rifles and rifles. Due to the deformation of the left arm.
            3. +2
              31 October 2021 22: 33
              They write that in Edition number 807r (State Historical Museum. Vneshtorgizdat) this "carbine" is designated the property of Ordzhonikidze !!!
              1. +2
                31 October 2021 23: 29
                I have not seen this publication, but I had to communicate with the Mikoyans. And there was only one trunk in the State Historical Museum.
              2. +4
                1 November 2021 15: 55
                I found this photo, there really is a signature that the barrel belonged to Ordzhonikidze. Unfortunately I could not find out the year of publication. I believe that this is just a mistake, the museum had a lot of all kinds of weapons that belonged to the leaders of our revolution.
                A good example of how false information is first published and then replicated. request
          2. +2
            31 October 2021 21: 03
            Thank you, as always interesting and informative! To my feelings, Luger is the best in the hand, I don't want to let it go. I put 92 Beretta in second place, Glock 17 in third. hi
      2. +5
        31 October 2021 08: 01
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        with "limited perception of the world"

        Dear Vladislav! You are you. But there are not so many like you. You know the proportion of 80 and 20. Moreover, on VO "adequate" is even more than about 50 to 50. Look at +, - and 0 - especially 0, There are often just 50 to 50. But ... people, even with a limited perception of the world - people. They should get their share of happiness by denouncing, so to speak, "enemies" and demonstrating their zeal and virtue, "their understanding" of history, and satisfying their need for self-expression. "Modern man must be heard." I didn't say that. This is the requirement of the times. Is he wrong? Who's right? We know who, but to a person with limited perception, who has studied poorly from bad books, this cannot be explained. Make you learn? It is forbidden! And he wants to express himself now !!! Means what? We must give him that opportunity. These two days were given to them. And whoever wanted to - put it in full! Is it bad? And the reason for self-expression ... can be anything. The Basics of Online Journalism ...
        1. +6
          31 October 2021 08: 22


          P04 "marine model" pistols (manufactured in 1915). There is no handle safety in the bottom photo. This is a characteristic feature of the 1904 model. Moreover, the automatic fuse was removed, which turned off when the handle was gripped, for safety reasons.

          there is no handle fuse in the top photo
          more precisely on the upper model, tk. photo one
          Or I misunderstood something?
          1. +4
            31 October 2021 09: 03
            That's right, already pointed out this error.
        2. +1
          31 October 2021 08: 25
          Quote: kalibr
          And on VO "adequate" is even more

          I think even more! Many sane people read, but "do not allow themselves a petty and unproductive" shit ".
          Regarding you yesterday, Vyacheslav Olegovich, I read it with sincere pleasure! Moreover, I agreed with most of your conclusions, but I honestly didn’t want to go into this “gadyushnik” with comments! I put a plus and never came back. The only thing that would force me to intervene is “direct insult to the Author”. But at the time of my acquaintance, they were "with a gulkin nose" and apparently they were not so "evil" that my "inner indignation" worked. Then, having seen +300 comments on the indicator, I sincerely sympathized with all the “moderate” ones. This is how many hamsters there crammed "on the chandelier of Raisa Sergeevna" !!!
          Otherwise, any work is always work. It's one thing to take a ready-made blank and make your own on its basis. Another is to make your own! As my comrade Nameska says, you are Vyacheslav Olegovich - “fertile”! I turned it over and understood what I was saying. You yourself need to give birth on Monday - Tuesday: a report on the implementation of the plan and a certificate on zone control. Chuika says that I will kill a week.
          Chickpea last - the simplest - is to criticize someone else's work !!!
          1. +4
            31 October 2021 09: 00
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            Many sane people read, but "do not allow themselves a petty and unproductive" shit ".

            That's it!
            1. +2
              31 October 2021 12: 15
              Q. Oh, I was "jolly" for two days, and only now I "jumped" to the site.
              Maybe Astra: "colleagues, Vyacheslav Olegovich" was?
          2. +2
            31 October 2021 09: 01
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            but I honestly didn't want to go into this "gadyushnik" with comments!

            Normal person! This is me "at work!"
          3. +2
            31 October 2021 09: 02
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            Then, seeing on the indicator +300 comments

            !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! +++++++++
            1. +8
              31 October 2021 09: 32
              hi
              More "life-giving clickbait" to your articles!
              And please do not be upset about not entirely correct comments ... You write very well.
              hi

              Few photos of Lugers, somehow I never managed to shoot them ... request



              1. +2
                31 October 2021 16: 55
                Quote: Wildcat
                And, please, do not be upset about not entirely correct comments.

                Thank you for your kind wish. But ... a strange thing: every year I get less upset. But now I catch myself thinking that I have completely stopped.
          4. +4
            31 October 2021 12: 31
            "on the chandelier of Raisa Sergeevna * I imagined a picture: a chandelier, and on it clusters of hamsters weigh.
            An eerie sight. Even Raike would not wish for such a picture in nature.
        3. +2
          31 October 2021 12: 22
          "" the basics of online journalism "Q. Oh, from here the conclusion is that neither you nor the site.
          1. +1
            31 October 2021 16: 54
            Quote: vladcub
            hence the conclusion that neither you nor the site.

            Do you want to become immortal? Don't think about the monkey for three minutes ...
      3. +3
        31 October 2021 12: 08
        Namesake, but I have a sun and tomorrow they promise +20.
        So that one can envy
    3. +3
      31 October 2021 11: 50
      So in the Holy Scripture there is no "Parabelum".
      1. +5
        31 October 2021 12: 26
        Quote: vladcub
        So in the Holy Scripture there is no "Parabelum".

        I don’t remember Steyer-Steyr there either. laughing
        1. +3
          31 October 2021 14: 50
          Not an order.
      2. +4
        31 October 2021 14: 00
        In the Holy Scripture "Parabellum", maybe not, but there is in the work of Cornelius Nepot (410st century BC) "Epaminondas": so the commander Epaminondas (418/362? - XNUMX BC). ) objected to a certain Meneclides:

        "Peace is born of war, and therefore those wishing to enjoy a long peace must be tempered in battles. So if you, Thebans, dream of excellence in Greece, then practice in a military camp, not in a palestra."

        This is probably the prototype of the famous phrase of Flavius ​​Vegetius Renata Si vis pacem, para bellum.
      3. +1
        31 October 2021 17: 01
        The problem is, Svyatoslav, that "Parabellum" is "prepare for war." And in the Bible all references to war are ... inappropriate. You could insert this, with a hint of the perfection of the parabellum: Joel 3:10 "Beat your plowshares into swords and your sickles into spears; let the weak say:" I am strong. "But I thought it was better what I chose earlier.
  2. +11
    31 October 2021 05: 53
    Handsome gun, you admire it.
    As a child, I also dabbled in its childish copy ... the cocking spring in it was tight ... it somehow pulled it back.
    Thank you Vyacheslav for the article ... after all, Luger is a classic. hi
    1. +9
      31 October 2021 06: 01
      beautiful gun .. always liked it.
      1. +17
        31 October 2021 06: 31
        There is such a thing ... I like it myself
        1. +7
          31 October 2021 14: 58
          This is some kind of show-off. Like: a la: "Goldfinger".
          Probably, now it is possible to buy a new Luger 08 for half the amount. Beetle saw that such models were produced for commercial sale
    2. +14
      31 October 2021 06: 40
      I'm glad you liked it. There will be about 5 articles dedicated to this pistol. Well, in general, the pistol series is underway, and there will be materials not only on parabellum ...
      1. +6
        31 October 2021 07: 47
        Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich.
        For Sunday morning - the very thing!
        It's a classic! A classic that has become part of the history of military affairs.
        PS By the way, I also had a toy gun, but white.
      2. +4
        31 October 2021 13: 29
        Very good. There will be something to read
    3. +9
      31 October 2021 07: 09
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Handsome gun, you admire it.
      As a child, I also dabbled in its childish copy ... the cocking spring in it was tight ... it somehow pulled it back.
      Thank you Vyacheslav for the article ... after all, Luger is a classic. hi

      I admit, purely from aesthetic "feelings", ten years ago I bought a pneumatic version of the "eight" from Ulmarex. feel
      Definitely a handsome man!
      1. +7
        31 October 2021 07: 50
        And if this is so, please take a picture of your "Ulmarex" and send it to me. I will insert it into the material about ... continuation. With attribution! Address in PM.
        1. +3
          31 October 2021 08: 28
          Vyacheslav Olegovich will be in the village on Wednesday evening!
    4. +5
      31 October 2021 14: 10
      The plastic copy did not reach me, but there was a tin copy from the plastic copy ... My father made it on the foundry ... And there was also a tin revolver with a horse's head handle. Favorite !!!!!!
      1. +2
        31 October 2021 17: 02
        Quote: Markus Wolf
        tin copy

        Did you pull off your pants ?!
      2. +4
        31 October 2021 18: 47
        I didn’t have one, but the tin one "lived" with me for a week.
        Who did it and where? It hit me through the "third" hands: "iron" knew, he was with "Gray", Kotovsky * and "dog"
  3. +15
    31 October 2021 06: 29
    At the beginning of the century, there was a craze for pistols-carbines. They tried to make them on the basis of almost all pistols produced at that time. So "Luger" also did not escape the fate of being turned into a carbine, for which it was equipped with a long barrel, forend and, of course, a removable butt
    As for me, it was too fashionable ..
    Either a horse, or a bull ... or a pistol, or a machine gun ...
    1. +10
      31 October 2021 06: 41
      Quote: Crowe
      Either a pistol, or a machine gun ..

      Fashion is fashion, you cannot argue against it. It's easier to attach a stock and a long barrel.
      1. +12
        31 October 2021 07: 12
        It’s not exactly fashion. The beginning of the century, a lot of people stagger about where, in places far from saturation with firearms. It is quite a solution for certain categories of citizens. Moreover, the citizens were solvent, the pistol-carbine was an obscenely expensive toy.
        1. +10
          31 October 2021 07: 14
          It is truth too. It was also fashionable to be a traveler at that time ...
          Fathers carried their faith and labor to a foreign land,
          They obeyed them, but children by birthright are here!
          1. +5
            31 October 2021 15: 14
            "it was fashionable" and would add: "risky". Now the dense Papuans have heard that: tourists: "lay the golden eggs", and 100 years ago. Times were unpretentious and reliable "trunk". However, in the next 50-60 years, a reliable "trunk" will not be superfluous
    2. +7
      31 October 2021 07: 06
      HOW Leader, do not take away the bread from Vyacheslav Olegovich! Thinking about models of 10-30 heads of the last century, he will delight in the next article!
      Regards, Vlad!
      1. +7
        31 October 2021 07: 16
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        do not take away the bread

        He can't. In any case, the photos will not be the ones he posted. I'm watching this. On VO there was an article about Luger. But I have all the other photos.
        1. +11
          31 October 2021 07: 32
          I'm watching this.
          He can't. I have all the photos different.
          - Comrades! - the one-eyed squealed. - See everything! The lover is beaten. The chess players of the city of Vasyuki were taken aback.
          Without wasting precious time, Ostap threw the chessboard into a kerosene lamp and, striking someone's jaws and foreheads in the darkness, he ran out into the street. Vasyukin's amateurs, falling on each other, rushed after him.
          It was a moonlit evening. Ostap rushed along the silver street lightly, like an angel, pushing off from the sinful earth. In view of the failed transformation of the Vasyukov into the center of the universe, they had to flee not among the palaces, but among the log houses with external shutters. Chess amateurs rushed from behind.
          - Keep the grandmaster! - roared the one-eyed.
          - Crooks! - supported by the rest.
          - Dudes! Snapped the grandmaster, increasing his speed.
          - Help! - shouted the offended chess players.
          1. +8
            31 October 2021 07: 48
            Exactly! You have to follow all the time to make it interesting. And what is the same something to watch?
    3. +12
      31 October 2021 08: 36
      This model has nothing to do with "civil fashion". Purely army machine - Long or Artillery Models Luger. These pistols were designed to arm artillerymen, machine gun crews and the first military pilots.
      Lange P. 08 ("Long R. 08") was adopted by the military units of Prussia, Saxony and Württemberg in 1913. During the war "long Parabellums" with round magazines for 32 rounds (model P. 17) were adopted Assault groups solely because of the convenience (compared to rifles) of use in trench fights.
      By the way, the same store was used by H. Schmeisser in the creation of the Bergmann MR-18 p / p.
      1. +2
        31 October 2021 19: 12
        Quote: Sea Cat
        were adopted by the Assault Groups solely because of the convenience (compared to rifles) of use in trench battles.

        Judging by the sabers and spurs, the famous "trench rats" are unlikely in the photo. wink
        1. +2
          31 October 2021 19: 44
          Exactly smile , placed what was found. Maybe these are the same guys from the "military units of Prussia, Saxony and Württemberg in 1913", those who were the first to get acquainted with this model. And, it seems, this is generally the cavalry.
  4. +7
    31 October 2021 06: 51
    Commentary on the last photo of Vyacheslav.

    P04 "marine model" pistols (manufactured in 1915). There is no handle safety in the bottom photo. This is a characteristic feature of the 1904 model. Moreover, they removed the automatic fuse, which turned off when the handle was gripped, for safety reasons. Because of it, many shooters did not put the pistol on the manual safety, which could lead to an accidental shot if the pistol fell. Royal Arsenal, Leeds.

    Both pistols have a manual safety switch “on the receiver”. The lower one has a characteristic automatic safety lock on the back of the handle. Vyacheslav Olegovich do not consider me a bore, what other "handle fuse" is missing from the bottom photo?
    Regards, Vlad!
    1. +7
      31 October 2021 07: 18
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      Regards, Vlad!

      You noticed everything correctly. It was necessary to write: AT THE UPPER PISTOL. And I wrote at the bottom ... Thanks for noticing. I've become kind of inattentive. Alas.
      1. +5
        31 October 2021 07: 50
        Quote: kalibr
        I have become kind of inattentive. Alas.

        Vyacheslav Olegovich - the one who does nothing is not mistaken!
        With sincere, respect Vlad!
  5. +13
    31 October 2021 07: 02
    Great article with great illustrations. Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich.

    Not in terms of criticism, but only in addition, a few words.
    However, this pistol also became known for its commercial name "Parabellum", which was the second part of the famous Latin phrase: Si vis pacem, para bellum ("If you want peace, prepare for war"), which belonged to the Roman military writer Flavius ​​Vegetius. The cartridge for this pistol received the same name and was also registered under it: 9x19 Parabellum.

    In fact, Flavius ​​Vegetius, in his book "A Brief Description of Military Affairs", also spoke beautifully, but much more extensively:
    Thus, whoever wants peace, let him prepare for war; who wants victory, let him carefully train the soldiers; whoever wants a favorable result, let him wage war, relying on art and knowledge, and not on chance. No one dares to invoke and insult someone he knows that in battle he will be stronger than him.
    However, over 15 centuries the winds of History have sharpened and cut this phrase almost to the point of brilliant clarity. The motto came out wherever. It is used by various military organizations:
    Royal Navy of Great Britain;
    Norwegian Military Academy;
    French Higher Military School.

    Well, the 9x19 Parabellum cartridge turned out to be more tenacious than the pistol itself: sometime after World War II, it was adopted by the armies of many countries of the world and became the standard patron of NATO states.
    1. +10
      31 October 2021 07: 20
      It's just good that you wrote this. You can imagine that articles with 20,27 thousand characters would not be readable. We have to select the material. And the comments ... You can add in the comments.
      1. +6
        31 October 2021 07: 34
        Quote: kalibr
        It's just good that you wrote this. You can imagine that articles with 20,27 thousand characters would not be readable. We have to select the material. And the comments ... You can add in the comments.

        Of course I understand. By the way, what do you think is the ideal article size?
        1. +6
          31 October 2021 07: 43
          An interesting question: the editors of the Twentieth Century Secrets magazine believe that the material should occupy 70-80% of the spread. 20% - photo. That is, have a volume of 7,5-8,5 thousand characters. On average 8. Online material on a narrow topic can have the same volume - 8. Interesting, picturesque material, "with pictures", can have from 10 to 14 thousand characters. Already 15 is too much. Anything that is NO LONGER READ.
          And there is also the Ruskontur website ... There is a requirement of 2000 characters. I wrote them 50 materials and got tired of more than 100 articles for VO. that's how! Writing succinctly is very difficult!
          1. +5
            31 October 2021 07: 59
            Quote: kalibr
            Writing succinctly is very difficult!

            I can not disagree.
            Thank you for the clarification.
            There is one interesting material, a couple of times I have already approached it, and it starts to spread like the famous semolina on the table. Lost interest in the subject of the story. Until then, I put it back in the drawer ...
            1. +4
              31 October 2021 08: 13
              Quote: A. Privalov
              Lost interest in the subject of the story. Until then, I put it back in the drawer ...

              Oh-oh-oh-t, I have materials for a year and I have to constantly return to them ...
              1. +5
                31 October 2021 08: 31
                Quote: kalibr
                Quote: A. Privalov
                Lost interest in the subject of the story. Until then, I put it back in the drawer ...

                Oh-oh-oh-t, I have materials for a year and I have to constantly return to them ...

                35-40 years ago, I experienced the opposite difficulties. When writing dissertations for good, but very busy people (there was in those days this kind of not entirely legal, but very good earnings) adding "water" to the text was not at all easy. And how to stretch 150 pages on fairly "dry" topics? Exclusively by "soaking".
                Then, already with the advent of experience, I began to undertake only dissertations on amorphous topics.
                1. +3
                  31 October 2021 08: 57
                  He was the scientific supervisor of 10 graduate students. He brought one to the defense, another reached, but for some reason did not defend himself. And one more graduate student said that he wrote a thesis "for himself" (tin!). I read everything ... I already "sipped water" ...
            2. +3
              31 October 2021 09: 37
              hi
              Really articles about the Merkava? ... It would be very nice ...
              1. +6
                31 October 2021 10: 45
                Quote: Wildcat
                hi
                Really articles about the Merkava? ... It would be very nice ...

                So much has been written about the Merkava that I can hardly add anything else interesting. "Israeli tanks in battle" by Baryatinsky - I can't jump. request
                1. +6
                  31 October 2021 11: 38
                  hi
                  Thank you!

                  I already have this book. It is quite old, and according to sources, it is rather secondary and poor.

                  It seems that Israel has a normal, detailed book: Moshe Givati, "Steel was tempered in their hands - the history of the 7100 repair and restoration center, 1948-1996"
                  It was not possible to find it, there are only pieces in Russian, for example:
                  https://hotdoc-71.livejournal.com/11491.html
                  https://kris-reid.livejournal.com/809650.html
                  As if Baryatinsky is a little worse and smaller, right?

                  And if I understand correctly, there is a fairly large amount of literature in Israel that is inaccessible to the Russian-speaking reader. If there are links to e-books, I will be very grateful, especially if the books are available at least for Google translation.

                  In principle, you can try to learn Hebrew (although a bit difficult, right-to-left, with dots, without dots ... request ) ...
                  But if someone writes a normal series of articles about the Merkava in Russian for VO (or just uploads the book to paid libraries, as the respected Caliber does), it would be great. Moreover, in addition to books in Israel, there are other sources, ranging from Latrun and ending with friends who definitely served on Merkava tanks and can add a couple of life stories.

                  Do not consider my comment as "chutzpu", so to speak ...
                  1. +2
                    31 October 2021 12: 36
                    Quote: Wildcat
                    But if someone writes a normal series of articles about the Merkava in Russian for VO

                    Let's not offend Vyacheslav Olegovich and don't spam in his wonderful article.
                    If you have already formed a circle of some intelligible wishes for such an article and other topics, please write everything in as much detail as possible in a personal message. I'll try to collect something from little-known sources. hi
                    1. +3
                      31 October 2021 12: 42
                      Thank you!
                      I will prepare wishes and questions and send them!
                      It will be necessary to "pick up" a few texts from Israeli Russian-language forums, give me 2 days.
                      hi
                2. +4
                  31 October 2021 11: 46
                  “After receiving the results of the check, Tal arrived at MASHA without warning. He ordered to gather all the workers, and when they gathered, he ordered the civilians to stand in one place, the over-conscripts in another, and the reservists in the third. He turned his back on the over-conscripts and reservists, and turned only to civilians. He asked everyone who has a son of soldiers to raise their hand. Many did it. And then he said to them:

                  “I have come to tell you only one thing: you are the murderers of your sons. I despise you. On the one hand, I know that your working conditions are not good enough and your salaries are bad, and you are entitled to more. Let the trade union do this. But there are states where people like you would be put up against the wall for sabotage. In enlightened states, people like you would have nothing to eat, because you would be thrown out with such a stain that no employer would accept you anymore. Since I have no opportunity to do any of this for you, and believe me that I would gladly do it, then from tomorrow morning, if they don't start working like devils here, there will be benches outside, I will bring a field kitchen, there will be coffee, there will be soldiers here who will serve you coffee, and I will never allow you to touch the Merkava or work at MASHA. You will receive a salary because you cannot be fired. I will film you for Israeli television, and I will speak there and say that I am showing you in front of your families as you really are. They think at home that you are working and making a tank, so let them know the truth about you, and let your sons see you. That’s all I’ll do. I'll pamper you, don't worry.

                  To the conscripts, Tal said:

                  “You’ll be arrested tomorrow morning, I have arrest warrants for all of you. There will be a special tribunal and you will be tried under the military law.

                  He said to the reservists:

                  - I have prepared "orders number 8" [emergency mobilization]. For me, you may not work, but you will be here for a whole year. You, in your meanness, sit on Fridays in living rooms, eat watermelons and nibble on seeds, and scold the idleness in the army. I will publish your names and your diligence in all newspapers and on television. You won't talk anymore in the living rooms. "
                  https://kris-reid.livejournal.com/809650.html

                  hi
                  Baryatinsky is less interesting, isn't he?
                  1. +2
                    31 October 2021 12: 32
                    Quote: Wildcat
                    https://kris-reid.livejournal.com/809650.html


                    Baryatinsky is less interesting, isn't he?

                    I don't know if this kind of stories will be of interest to the reader.
                    I believe that we will not see anything in the comments except the mocking ridicule and boorish shoba of the local generals and marshals. request
                    1. +3
                      31 October 2021 13: 07
                      As accompanying text, such stories will certainly be interesting!
                      This is a real story, not bikes like "Heavy Merkava won't go anywhere" and "the engine is in front, the gunner can't see anything."

                      About boorish banter and mocking ridicule - here, as it were, there are subspecies winked :
                      1. Unhappy people working on bot farms (large output, low salary, punishment), you have to write more than a hundred and a half a day comments "everything is fine, beautiful marquise, and who is not good - that Navalny" - to regret such, "hug and cry ".
                      2. Clinical anti-Semites - well, those whom Dr. John Woods and Albert Pierrepoint did not cure - they cannot be helped ... sad
                      3. Other characters adjoin item 2, with other, "lighter forms" and they are sometimes funny. winked

                      And the site needs a "clickbait" ... The article "about an Israeli tank from Israel" "sells itself" in terms of "clickbait".

                      And who needs and who is able to assess - will be appreciated. "Reasonable - enough", as they say ...
                      hi
                    2. 0
                      31 October 2021 17: 39
                      Alexander, well, not all the same here come about you! request drinks
    2. +4
      31 October 2021 13: 23
      However, Flavius ​​is an intelligent man. Everything about the case said
  6. +10
    31 October 2021 07: 16
    In the Strugatskys' story "The Hotel" At the Deceased Alpinist "there is a huge, black Luger, with a telescopic sight and other cool bells and whistles.
    There is a legend, when the brothers, with the help of reference books, proved that such weapons do not exist in nature, Arkady Strugatsky said: well, whether I am a science fiction writer or not, let him stay. And then, my Luger, I do what I want. smile
    1. +6
      31 October 2021 07: 44
      Quote: Van 16
      In the Strugatskys' story "The Hotel" At the Deceased Alpinist "there is a huge, black Luger, with a telescopic sight and other cool bells and whistles.
      There is a legend, when the brothers, with the help of reference books, proved that such weapons do not exist in nature, Arkady Strugatsky said: well, whether I am a science fiction writer or not, let him stay. And then, my Luger, I do what I want.

      The epigraph just about this Luger will be in the next article, or through the next ...
    2. +6
      31 October 2021 08: 15
      Quote: Van 16
      And then, my Luger, I do what I want.

      That's it ! Yes
      1. +4
        31 October 2021 08: 19
        Who built that too?
        1. +5
          31 October 2021 08: 37
          Quote: kalibr
          Who built that too?

          A certain Herbert Verle, the owner of the Waffen Verle company ... he loves this business!
      2. +2
        31 October 2021 09: 12
        Photo ass, and if not, then kill these freaks! am
        1. +6
          31 October 2021 11: 04
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Photo ass

          You guessed the figurines, Kostya! A real sample for "real boys"! By the way, the automatic mode is mentioned! What does that mean? wink
          1. +2
            31 October 2021 11: 18
            for "real boys"

            From some real freaks to other real freaks.
            He said:

            Sea Cat (Constantine) ... and if not, then kill these freaks!
            1. +2
              31 October 2021 11: 24
              Quote: Sea Cat
              if not, then kill these freaks

              Anyway! Maybe you like such a thing?
              1. +2
                31 October 2021 11: 41
                Yes, in no way, to be honest, a rather lightweight design for a noble pistol. Yes, and I've seen it before, there was almost an article here.
                1. +2
                  31 October 2021 12: 02
                  Quote: Sea Cat
                  I've seen it before, there was almost an article here

                  It may well be! True, I did not remember about that ... recourse
                  1. +1
                    31 October 2021 16: 03
                    It is impossible to remember everything and it is not a fact that everyone has seen this "butt". smile
      3. +1
        31 October 2021 19: 15
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        That's it !

        Something tells me that this miracle shot through the upper barrel. Under which they carefully made a hole in the sight rack. wassat
        1. +1
          31 October 2021 19: 46
          Quote: Saxahorse
          Something tells me that this miracle shot through the upper barrel. Under which they carefully made a hole in the sight rack.

          Oh yes! wink
    3. +11
      31 October 2021 08: 44
      The brothers were mistaken here only in one thing: there was no translator for automatic fire on the Luger, but optics were installed, though on commercial models.

      This machine is from the State Historical Museum's storerooms. Two interchangeable barrels - 7,65 and 9 mm, 4-fold Zeiss and a removable stock.
      1. +5
        31 October 2021 09: 08
        Awesome photo!
      2. +3
        31 October 2021 10: 05
        Quote: Sea Cat
        there was no translator for automatic fire on the Luger,

        But there were attempts! At the beginning of the 20th century, they tried Luger in the automatic "version" (not only self-loading) ... and if my memory does not fail me, then it was in Russia!
        1. +3
          31 October 2021 10: 25
          "An attempt is not torture," as Lavrenty Palych said. Something somewhere I read about it, but the series was not sent, although with locking according to this scheme, weapons were enough, at least the same "Maxim", or the same p / p Furrer.
  7. +3
    31 October 2021 08: 26
    Luger's pistol, the caliber of which in 1903 was changed from 7,65-mm to 9-mm, for a new pistol cartridge with a cylindrical sleeve developed a year earlier, although it was altered from the same "bottle" 7,65-mm. And in the same year, the head of the DWM company came up with the name "Parabellum" for him. But the "joke" with the cartridge continued ... Later, the cartridge 7,65-mm Parabellum appeared! By the way, the Americans were offered Luger chambered for (.45 ACP = 11,43 mm) ...
    1. +3
      31 October 2021 08: 41
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      By the way, the Americans were offered Luger chambered for (.45 ACP = 11,43 mm) ...

      About it will be! I even met the person who releases them!
      1. 0
        31 October 2021 20: 06
        Quote: kalibr
        About it will be!

        Just right to collect in a cycle about "the most charismatic weapon of all ages. And Nar." ... It would be a chic quintessence. But I'm not talking about cinematic and hyper-patriotic clichés, of course (however, you don’t sin with that))). Although ... T-34 can be seen in the petroglyphs of Zalavruga.
    2. +5
      31 October 2021 09: 09
      ... the Americans were offered Luger chambered for (.45 ACP = 11,43 mm) ...

      Precisely, there was such a disgrace! bully
    3. +5
      31 October 2021 09: 14
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      But the "joke" with the cartridge continued ... Later, the cartridge 7,65-mm Parabellum appeared!

      Only the 7,65x21 mm Parabellum cartridge appeared not later, but on the contrary earlier) First, on the basis of 7.65x25 Borchardt, they created the 7.65x21 Parabellum cartridge, and already it was "finished" to 9Para.
      1. +3
        31 October 2021 09: 56
        Quote: BORMAN82
        cartridge 7,65 × 21 mm Parabellum appeared not later, but on the contrary earlier

        Oh sorry! There was a case .. blurted out without thinking about the meaning! Sorry! First, morning ... just left the bed ... sat down at the computer without waking up completely! Secondly, the retirement age ... sclerosis! Forgive pensioner! feel
  8. +5
    31 October 2021 10: 08
    Tell me, friend, why is there an ambush around?
    Why are so many years of our life not there?
    Chamomile flowers smell like incense from hell
    And the apostle Andrew carries a Luger pistol?
  9. +7
    31 October 2021 11: 12
    My first acquaintance with the Luger pistol took place in early childhood. Then the Frunze factory of plastic products produced just such a "Luger", and there were black, white and ... pink pistols! But among us, boys from Proletarskaya Street, only black ones were valued!

    And we valued only aluminum ones, which we cast in the foundry of the agricultural machinery plant under the strict guidance of Uncle Kolya, using the product of the Frunze factory as a model. They combined business with pleasure - they received a toy and mastered the basics of foundry.
    Now the grandson got to know Luger through it.
    1. +1
      31 October 2021 15: 39
      Quote: Undecim
      And we valued only aluminum ones, which we cast in the foundry of the agricultural machinery plant under the strict guidance of Uncle Kolya, using the product of the Frunze factory as a model. They combined business with pleasure - they received a toy and mastered the basics of foundry.
      Now the grandson got to know Luger through it.

      Ha, luminous. When I was accepted as a pioneer, my pocket was held back by the cast-iron Makarov. As a model, it was originally real.
      1. +1
        31 October 2021 20: 10
        So the work was not judged by weight. It was possible to cast from cast iron, even easier.
        1. +1
          31 October 2021 20: 34
          Quote: Undecim
          It was possible to cast from cast iron, even easier.

          Why is it easier?
          1. +1
            31 October 2021 20: 40
            Because the foundry was engaged in casting parts from cast iron, which was melted in a cupola. That is, there were no problems with the material. He molded it, gave the flask to the foundry workers - five minutes - it was ready.
            And aluminum had to be found in sufficient quantities, figured out how to melt, then cast.
            1. +1
              31 October 2021 20: 56
              Did they steal spoons and forks from the canteens? laughing
              1. +1
                31 October 2021 21: 29
                Yeah, you can see such an offended minus in the dining room.
                My father had a workshop for the production of zinc oxide and titanium oxide at the plant. There, among the non-ferrous scrap, there were also aluminum products.
                1. +2
                  31 October 2021 21: 33
                  Quote: Undecim
                  Yeah, you can see such an offended minus in the dining room.

                  Not me. At my father's factory in the foundry, both luminescence and cast iron were smelted. The dumbbell has been preserved.
                  1. +2
                    31 October 2021 21: 35
                    And I have a "bug" for removing boots, which my grandfather cast in the same casting, only it was the "Krieger Plant".
    2. +3
      31 October 2021 21: 53
      Lucky for you and the Mordvin 3. We also had a plant in our city, where Lily cast iron (huge steam boilers), but the move there was ordered. But in the model shop (where they made wooden models for molding) the head of our circle of modelers worked as a master. We had no problems with wood and its initial processing. Taking advantage of this, with the help of Oleg Vasilievich (that was the name of the master), we made a "parabellum" and a model of the MG 42 machine gun. Everything is in full size)))
      1. +3
        31 October 2021 23: 44
        It goes without saying. We literally built "Maxim" from wood. I have a rayer from that time.
        1. +4
          1 November 2021 00: 14
          And I am offended that the photographs were not taken then. Although comrades went to the photo circle (((
          1. +2
            1 November 2021 00: 34
            Now, with the passage of time, you think that the camera should have been carried with you all the time. As they say, in hindsight ...
  10. +6
    31 October 2021 11: 33
    laughing in order:
    1. In Mannlicher, Georg Luger distinguished himself by the fact that he communicated and patented someone else's development, for which he was expelled from Mannlicher.
    2. In Parabellum, Luger was not involved in the development of weapons, he was, as they would say now, a sales manager, high-ranking, with very "advanced" functionality, but still a salesman, not a designer, and a little organizer, as they said in years my youth, temporary labor collective; its maximum is to formulate a technical specification for real designers, make sure that everything is done according to this technical specification itself, and patent other other people's ideas for oneself.
    3. At the last point, Luger, according to tradition, was burned and was expelled from DWM (Parabellum) in the same way as he had previously been expelled from Mannlicher, and the patents were taken away ...
    4. A bunch of other absurdities, which I am not even talking about.
    In general, if someone is really interested in this topic, I recommend: YouTube \ SergeToll \ Luger Parabellum Story; the video is in Russian, the author truly with jewelry meticulousness unearthed all the nuances of the story about Luger, Parabellum, Armory Kings, well, "cabbage", where can we go without it ...
    1. +3
      31 October 2021 13: 00
      Yes ... right! There is such a video! It was in my "archive"; but I put it there without viewing ... there was no time ... left for later ... then I forgot! request
      1. +2
        31 October 2021 17: 08
        Nikolaevich, THANKS for the video. I could postpone and ... forget.
        What to say about Mr. Lugir: BARBOS, but thanks to him
    2. +2
      31 October 2021 13: 10
      Need to check. Intrigued
  11. +2
    31 October 2021 12: 30
    Once again I read the article with pleasure. Thank you, Author!
    To be continued ...

    I look forward to it. good
  12. +2
    31 October 2021 12: 49
    Quote: Wildcat
    Thank you!
    I will prepare wishes and questions and send them!
    It will be necessary to "pick up" a few texts from Israeli Russian-language forums, give me 2 days.
    hi

    Please take your time. Calm down, get ready. I also rummage in my archives. hi
  13. +2
    31 October 2021 13: 08
    "the military wished" by God I would like to know the names of the customers.
    For the end of the 19th century, these were very smart people. To make, shorter, lighter, automatic safety and anatomical handle. In fact, for half a century, Luger became the "legislator" of automatic pistols, because ALL subsequent ones, albeit indirectly, but Luger were taken into account as a standard
    1. +2
      31 October 2021 13: 39
      Come on?
      And many of them end up with a bare barrel and lever locking?
      Grandpa John Moses is indignant.
      1. 0
        31 October 2021 17: 15
        I am not saying what the standard is completely, but indirectly: cartridge, take into account the anatomy of the handle, weight and dimensions.
        1. 0
          31 October 2021 17: 34
          And where is the Luger tilt of the handle of pistols in Interbellum, even in the days before WWI and the WWI itself? Steyr's? The Vebleis? Colt? The Mannlicher, maybe?
          The fact that a bare trunk is not a buzz, and that a lever scheme is not at all optimal in terms of cost and labor costs, also surfaced very quickly.
          Well, 9Para during the described period was just a common pistol cartridge, but nothing more.
          The fact that he showed himself best of all on the outspoken police PP of the third generation is after WWII.
          1. +1
            31 October 2021 17: 41
            Luger sucks. And why did not conscious people admire him?
            1. 0
              31 October 2021 17: 44
              No, quite a normal soldier in the view of the military before WWI. Moreover, excellent.
              That's just expensive in military realities for everyone, and even for the Germans, with their economy completely transferred to a military footing.
              Subsequently, the tommy-gun followed his path, also a good machine, but too expensive and costly even for American production facilities.
              "Butter dish" appeared for a reason.
    2. 0
      31 October 2021 17: 45
      ... ALL subsequent, albeit indirectly, but Luger was taken into account as a standard

      Slava, here you are clearly excited, no offense, but your post is utter nonsense. drinks
      1. +1
        31 October 2021 20: 33
        Kostya, what insults. My opinion: a) the cartridge was taken into account, now 2/3 9,19 mm. B) the dimensions, I don’t remember one, to be larger. C) quality: "the P-38 pistol was more perfect than the Parabellum" (c)
        1. 0
          31 October 2021 20: 43
          Alas, I cannot agree with you in the last phrase, the P-38 was more technologically advanced and easier to manufacture, but not more perfect, this is from the position of the shooter, from the position of the designer, economist and technologist, you are right, but from the same position of the PM - the height of perfection ... well, almost smile
          1. 0
            1 November 2021 13: 01
            "but not perfect" it was a quote from the reference book: Beetle "Small arms. Pistols, revolvers *
        2. +1
          31 October 2021 20: 45
          Regarding Walter P.38 I completely agree - a great weapon! good
          1. +2
            1 November 2021 13: 25
            And it looks good. The case when appearance and quality matched each other
    3. +2
      31 October 2021 20: 26
      And Georg Luger is no longer your name? All his uniqueness in this story lay in the fact that he was not only a "sniffer" from DWM, but also a high-class army shooter who spoke the same language with customers and operated with the same concepts, based on this, one can assume with a high degree of probability that the design (tilt of the handle), weight distribution and general usability (what is now more often called usability) are his contribution precisely as an “having access” shooter.
      And now, after a century, you can't even say: what is more important ...
      1. 0
        1 November 2021 13: 03
        I agree with you
  14. +1
    31 October 2021 13: 27
    I wonder why everyone in Runet calls Mauser Si96 (S96) - not otherwise than K96?
    Here with the gever K98 - everything is correct, it is a carbine.
    In Latin, of course, C and K can mean one sound, but this is in English.
    1. +1
      31 October 2021 14: 02
      because he calls it "a quarter of our former people," now living overseas: on the one hand, one cannot tear ourselves away from the Russian, and on the other, one cannot do without English.
    2. +2
      1 November 2021 09: 57
      Quote: AllBiBek
      why in Runet everyone calls Mauser Si96 (S96) - not otherwise than K96?

      It is all the more strange that Mauser is German, then C-96? Not?
      1. 0
        2 November 2021 13: 49
        "Tse" seems to be phonetically, but for the Germans everything is complicated there.
        Maybe "tsi" and "tse", but certainly not "ka".
  15. +1
    31 October 2021 13: 33
    Comrades, I always pay attention to the epigraph V.O.
  16. +1
    31 October 2021 17: 39
    I was holding this device in my hands. Comfortable grip. But I like Walter P-38 better.
  17. +2
    31 October 2021 17: 59
    hi
    "... removed the automatic safety cut-off when the grip was gripped, for safety reasons. Because of it, many shooters did not put the pistol on the manual safety, which could lead to an accidental shot if the pistol fell."
    The automatic fuse is removed by those who have a good lace winked not:


    And those who want to shoot even faster - and the trigger guard is removed:


    The photo is not mine, taken here: https://www.coltforum.com/threads/texas-rangers-and-the-1911.374957/
  18. +2
    31 October 2021 18: 41
    I had a water parabellum - a water plug in the back, a nozzle with a nozzle in the barrel. It was possible to soak anyone, and I, of course, soaked many.
  19. +3
    31 October 2021 19: 21
    A gorgeous article and a bunch of delicious comments! Many thanks to the author and a number of commentators!
  20. 0
    31 October 2021 21: 37
    Quote: vladcub
    b) sizes, I don't remember not one to be larger

    Walter P-38 - 216x136 mm
    Parabellum - 217x135 mm
    М1911 - 219x140 mm
    1. 0
      1 November 2021 13: 37
      Well, the Colt M1911 is America, and they are obsessed with gigantism.
      In old Europe, then they did not look back at America
  21. +1
    31 October 2021 22: 39
    They write that the production of "carbines" was resumed in 1920 and lasted until 1923!
    Also in 1929, the USSR received 300 pieces of "Lugers".
    Perhaps at this time a batch of "Borchart-Luger pistols-carbines" was purchased to present to especially distinguished revolutionary leaders!
    For example Ordzhonikidze G.K.

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