"Suicide bombers" of the "Black holes" project 877 and 636

TASS, October 12:

The new Prime Minister of Japan, Fumio Kishida, believes that Tokyo's sovereignty extends to the islands of the southern Kuril Islands.

RBC:

Russia does not agree with the words of Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida that Japan's sovereignty extends to the southern part of the Kuril Islands. This was stated by the press secretary of the President of Russia Dmitry Peskov.

Everything that is happening now in the relationship between Russia and Japan, more and more begins to resemble 1903.

Things are heading for war.

And the parallels between 1903 and 2021 can be traced not only in our "strange" foreign policy line, but also in the misunderstanding of the real military threat by many military personnel and the need for forced preparation.

Last week, Channel One on the Chasovoy program released a very good film about the coastal submarine of the Pacific Ocean. fleet - diesel-electric submarine (diesel-electric submarine) B-187 "Komsomolsk-on-Amur" (laid down on May 7, 1991, the acceptance act was signed by the Navy on December 30, 1991, on January 27, 2017, after a long repair with modernization, returned to the Pacific Fleet) ...

Video about the B-187 "Channel One" 2019.

Below are screenshots from both videos with comments.

The central post of the modernized submarine, on the left, a new BIUS "Lama" is highlighted, on the right - a new digital rack of the submarine steering system.

BIUS "Lama" close-up from the video of 2019.

New equipment in the navigator's cabin (at the same time, the question of installing the Appassionata digital navigation complex, which is standard for the new "Warsaw women", remains open).

A new digital control system for general ship systems (SU OKS) has been installed:

Actually, the reason for replacing the old relay control system of the OKS and the analog (on selsyns) steering system is obvious - the exhaustion of the resource and malfunction of the old systems and the impossibility of their serial production, respectively, the boat received new automation systems.

It is extremely important to replace the old hydroacoustic complex (GAK) MGK-400 "Rubicon", developed in the late 60s - early 70s, with a new digital sonar MGK-400V (for more details see the article "Rubicon" of underwater confrontation. Successes and problems of the MGK-400 hydroacoustic complex ").

Hydroacoustic deckhouse for diesel-electric submarines of project 877 with the old state joint-stock company "Rubicon". It is not for nothing that these submarines are called "Black Holes".

Hydroacoustic cabin B-187 in 2019 (screen from the video of Channel One) with the new MGK-400V SJSC.

In the filming of 2021 in the sonar cabin, the loss of one strut (there are two of them) of the SAC is found. I would very much like to hope that it is being repaired or modernized and will be installed on the B-187 in the very near future, because its absence significantly reduces the full potential of the MGK-400V digital SJC.

SJSC MGK-400V is very, very good in terms of its technical level and has a large-sized main antenna of the SJSC with a large energy potential (noise direction finding).

However, an extremely acute problem is that the main antenna (bow) has a frequency range limited in the low-frequency region and a "blind sector" in the stern. The inset in the screen shows the registration data of a real low-frequency signal "illumination", the frequency band of which is outside the operating range of the MGK-400V nasal antenna.

That is, the enemy is able to "highlight" our submarine, including covertly (subject to power limitation and the use of noise-like signals) for it. And today not only special hydroacoustic reconnaissance vessels are capable of this, but also such massive means of searching for submarines as active radioacoustic buoys (RGAB) aviation... In conditions of such illumination, even an absolutely low-noise submarine is displayed like a fly on glass.

Let me emphasize that our submarine may not even suspect about this. The expression "a cat stuck in a felt boot" will be absolutely accurate here!

All these problems are successfully solved by an extended flexible antenna (GPBA), which provides both low frequency control and, in fact, a circular, 360-degree observation. The phrase "no shadow zones" from the picture on the Spanish acoustics website shows this clearly.

Yes, the efficiency of detecting low-noise targets at low heading angles of the GPBA is low, but it is ensured by the detection of such objects as torpedoes (and at considerable distances), and the same low-frequency signals of "illumination" (that is, our boat can understand that it is being guided and prepared to attack ).

As a matter of fact, this has already been written many times, for example - "Anti-torpedo catastrophe" of the Russian fleet ".

With individual actions of frigates and diesel-electric submarines, the critical problem of the "bare rear" both for project 11356 (P) and for project 06363 immediately arises. having a significant lead in detection and good energy in torpedoes, it can covertly shoot our ships, launching torpedoes by means of telecontrol into the "blind" aft sector. This fact is obvious to any objective officer, specialist. But in the "valiant navy" they simply "hammered a bolt" on him. (War is not expected, is it? - Perhaps it is not expected. And everything is beautiful at parades).

It is of interest to discuss the issue on one of the specialized resources. The civilian asks simple and logical questions, in the answers to which the "corporation" (two people answer: the "insider lobbyist" mentioned in the article "PK 22160" and an employee of the organization known as the "Central Research Institute of Shipwreck") ( link):

DimitriUS # 04.05.2021 ... why haven't they plugged in the 636th GAS with GPBA - why doesn't the Customer care ?! :(

A simple and logical question ...

Curious # 05.05.2021 17:18 The customer was thinking about such an upgrade, but the GPBA installation did not add much to the efficiency - the 636s had an energy level of half a century ago - there is not enough electricity (plus questions with the place necessary for placing the equipment). By and large, even with cruise missiles and advanced electronic warfare, these submarines in the XNUMXst century can be safely called partly submarines, rather, diving boats - "Warsaw" and its derivatives have long become obsolete. Well, then, as always, there was no extra money and no ... "Eternal song", "no and do not need" (not to do, you can find two hundred thousand reasons).

DimitriUS # 06.05.2021 and that, even for the passive GPBA Vignette-EM-01, there was not enough power, and it would be useless?

LtRum # 06.05.2021/10/06 XNUMX:XNUMX And how much cooling it? And the place to install it? Are the service personnel also imperceptible? And what about the cleaning-sampling system, it feeds on the holy spirit, and does not require a place for installation, personnel for maintenance? You constantly break the bottom with your ignorant approach...

It is not even the absolute ignorance and illiteracy of the representative of the so-called "military science" that is striking, but the absolutely boorish style of response. Let me emphasize - on absolutely sensible and logical questions of a civilian.

What kind of "cooling"? The same BIUS "Lama" has natural convective cooling - due to low power consumption (and GPBA is even less)! "Don't like" the UPV (GPBA setting-sampling device)? Do not bet - as it is done on a good half of the western diesel-electric submarines. In the photo on the Dutch diesel-electric submarine, the GPBA mount is permanent (at sea) through the "clip", with the exit to the sea and return, it is manually unwound by the personnel.

Curious # 06.05.2021/17/34 636:11356 For a covert search for enemy submarines using GPBA, it can take a lot of time - tens of hours. Will the 636's power engineer be able to withstand such a load? Unlikely. There are also other consumers. We'll have to, keeping the supply of energy, roll up the intestines and float to recharge. Those. the search is interrupted for several hours, and the boat puts itself at serious risk of detection. What is the integral efficiency here? Of course, there is a very delicate balance between cost and efficiency, but we always make a choice in favor of "cheaper". A good example is the frigate of project XNUMX, on which GPBA was abandoned for reasons of cost reduction. And further. Our industry, if a decision was made to install GPBA on boats XNUMX, would probably build them one and a half times longer ...

In short, this is all a lie!

The submarine needs GPBA all the time, not to mention the fact that the underwater autonomy on one charge of the "Warsaw" is many times higher than the one declared by the "insider-lobbyist". On charging the GPBA, all the more so in no case should you reel off - it is on the charge that the GPBA is just very, very necessary and important (controlling the situation by 360 degrees with the base of the GAK antenna partially deaf from the operation of diesel generators)!

Price? Is it "not worth" money to build an almost incapacitated submarine?

Without GPBA, the submarine turns out to be deliberately defective and incapable of fighting against any serious enemy. Refusal from GPBA for “financial” reasons is not just “saving on matches”, it is “a mistake much worse than a crime”!

Well, and completely false is the thesis of the alleged "failure of the construction deadline" because of the GPBA.

It may be said that this is a "forum", this is an "Internet". No, everything is much worse - a similar rotten "argumentation" (in quotation marks) is contained in the documents and reported to the military-political leadership.

There is no GPBA not only on the modernized "Komsomolsk-on-Amur", it is not even on the "newest" (just put into operation) "Magadan"! The war is "not expected", but for the parade "and so it will come down."

But an even more disastrous situation is shown with weapons "Komsomolsk-on-Amur".

About the antiques of our torpedoes (lagging behind the modern level for more than half a century) has been written many times. At the same time, there are positive changes, new, jam-resistant torpedoes still went to the fleet (albeit with a number of shortcomings).

However, the B-187 that came out of the modernization never received new weapons (missiles and new torpedoes), the video clearly shows the old design of the rear covers of torpedo tubes (TA) without AERVD data entry units.

That is, there is a BIUS (capable of firing new torpedoes), but again "saved on matches" - on entering data into the TA!

As a result, the modernized "Komsomolsk-on-Amur" is able to use only extremely ineffective in modern conditions "torpedo junk", taking into account that the boat has a mine ammunition (from anti-submarine mines PMR-2). The video clearly shows that several torpedoes are only on the side lower racks, the rest of the ammunition is PMR-2.

Note. The very fact of filming and publishing a video from the torpedo deck of a submarine of the Navy's combat personnel is puzzling, in view of the specificity and importance of such information. According to the author, a public demonstration of the loading (option) of ammunition on the torpedo deck of the submarine, if possible, is only after several years have passed since the shooting and without specific reference to the carriers. And these are not trifles, despite the capabilities of the same satellite reconnaissance, the specific layout of the ammunition in the compartment itself is hot information, that is, it actually informs the enemy about the real combat capabilities of the submarine in a given situation.

It is worth noting that there is no particular sense for diesel-electric submarines in this particular case in the mine version. As there is no point in finding diesel-electric submarines in Vladivostok, their redeployment there from Kamchatka was, of course, a wrong decision.

PMR-2 is an exclusively anti-submarine mine and has long been outdated, having a huge visibility for sonars and a small affected area. The video shows the shooting of torpedo tubes with air ("bubble"). The extremely low secrecy of such a shot is obvious, which is aggravated by the need for a large number of such shots for a short time in a limited area for setting mines.

It will be appropriate to recall here that Japan has highly developed systems for illumination of the underwater environment, including stationary sound direction-finding stations with very high capabilities. Accordingly, our diesel-electric submarine with them is obviously practically a "suicide bomber" - and without the prospect of causing any serious damage to the enemy.

Why is it still (with all this in mind) PMR-2 in the B-187 ammunition load?

Apparently, due to the disastrous state of the old torpedoes (let me remind you that the last high-speed nuclear submarine of project 705K - B-123 served after repair in the "mine loading version", because there were simply no old torpedoes for it).

Well, there is a very bad factor that is far from always adequate to the requirements of higher command bodies (for example, the General Staff) about the presence of a part of the carriers “in a mine version”. The fact that in this version (with our obsolete mines) the real efficiency of the submarine is practically zeroed, the relevant operators, it seems, do not know ...

Anti-torpedo protection (PTZ)?

It's also very bad there - more details "Anti-torpedo catastrophe" of the Russian fleet ".

Diesel-electric submarines of project 636 are armed with SGPD: drifting device PTZ "Vist-2" (developed and manufactured by JSC "Aquamarine") and self-propelled multipurpose device MG-74M (instead of the long-obsolete GIP-1, MG-34 and MG-74).

Details on the Vist-2 drifting device were given in the documents of a number of state purchases (on the official portal), but the key is the following:

- "Vist" - means of PTZ and does not have any effect on the operation of means of targeting weapons (in other words, through the telecontrol channel, the torpedo will confidently aim at our submarine according to the low-frequency SAC);

- against modern SSNs, the effectiveness of single drifting SGPDs is extremely low, and the group use of "Whists" is impossible, due to the outdated logic of their work. (In fact, there will be a "dog wedding" - those staged by the "Vista" group will work on the first emitting device and will "crush" themselves);

- short operating time of "Vista" does not allow diesel-electric submarines to move to a safe distance.

Let me emphasize that all these are facts that have long been well known to specialists. But to which our valiant Navy, as they say, "hammered a bolt." War is not expected, is it? Maybe not expected ...

The film shows the crew well, one can feel their love for their ship, and their attitude to the service with a soul. Take a look at these faces.

In the case of real hostilities, these are suicide bombers.

With minimal chances of causing any serious damage to the enemy. A good modernization of the submarine in the area of ​​electronic weapons was carried out, but "they saved on matches" - GPBA. And the worst thing is just a catastrophic situation with our underwater weapons (both torpedoes and mines).

"Caliber"?

So these submariners were not given it either. Saved ...

The video shows the crew working out on the way out of the sunken submarine. The right thing ...

However, given the usual depths of the Sea of ​​Japan, it is somewhat dubious. You can't ascend from a kilometer - unless at shallow depths "under the shore" ...

It is said about the fleet.

PS

As a postscript, I will quote from the article of 2019 in "NVO" "Varshavyanka" needs an upgrade ":

... the issue of a number of shortcomings of the 6363 project remains unresolved, namely:
- the absence of a flexible extended towed antenna (GPBA) in the hydroacoustic complex (SAC);
- lack of ... anti-torpedo, low efficiency of the available passive anti-torpedo protection - hydroacoustic countermeasures (SGPD);
- in fact, the antique level of telecontrol of torpedo weapons, ... "frozen" at the level of Western models more than half a century ago.

Additionally,

Very difficult, but important (given the sharp increase in the potential enemy's anti-submarine aviation capabilities) is the issue of equipping our submarines with anti-aircraft weapons.

It is impossible not to admit that today in the Pacific Fleet all these important decisions should not only be implemented as quickly as possible, but implemented in time. Especially considering that there is almost no time left ...

Comments

[Vladimir_2U]

Without at all challenging the author's conclusions on the topic of weapons, I fundamentally disagree with the political conclusions.

Everything that is happening now in the relationship between Russia and Japan, more and more begins to resemble 1903.
Things are heading for war.

Okay, the capabilities of the Navy, the Aerospace Forces and the Russian Army, we will assume that Japan, this is after Syria, and the drain of the United States in Afghanistan, they are not afraid. But where is the author of the cases, possibly the most powerful fleet of the PRC? The situation is close neither in 1903 nor even in 1899 ... The author is overdoing it, and to put it mildly.

[jonht]

No dear, does not overdo it. The position of China is to wait on the river bank when the corpse of the enemy floats by. China will not fit in for us, unless it tries to squeeze the disputed islands off the Yap on the sly and that's it ...
There are only tactical nuclear weapons, confuses the samurai, radioactive islands are unnecessary for anyone.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: jonht

unless he tries to squeeze the disputed islands off the Yaps on the sly and that's it ...

Here you are, at least one deterrent without Russia's participation. Were such factors before the Russo-Japanese War? Not a single one.

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Here you are, at least one deterrent without Russia's participation. Were such factors before the Russo-Japanese War? Not a single one.

The PRC has enough of its "friends", as many as two military blocs (QUAD and AUKUS) that will restrain it, and in case of an attempt to squeeze Japan (the disputed islands) from Japan, the QUAD allies will intervene .... therefore, the chance of the PRC's intervention in this possible conflict, very small ...

But a military conflict between Russia and Japan, in the distant future ... most likely will be, but certain conditions must be created for such a scenario (weak government of the Russian Federation, Russia's war on 1-2 fronts: Donbass, South Ossetia, Transnistria, Karabakh and etc., internal instability: on a national basis, population dissatisfaction with living conditions, etc., + refusal to use nuclear weapons in the defense of the Kuril Islands) ...

Many will of course say, but what kind of war do we have nuclear weapons and the Japanese will never attack, but now there are talks in Japan (at a very high level) about revising the policy in the field of using the Atom, including for military purposes, i.e. it is proposed to start the construction of nuclear submarines (following the example of Australia), and there it is not far from nuclear weapons (allies if they can help), and then the layouts will be completely different ... taking into account the very powerful forces of the Japanese Navy in the region, taking into account nuclear weapons to contain (or possible use) + with a very powerful missile defense system (and it is at a high level), so who knows what will climb into the heads of Japanese military officials .... but preparations for war are already underway.

An additional risk factor for exacerbation is the absence of a peace treaty between Russia and Japan, and Tokyo's position on the Kuril Islands ... they don't want to close the issue peacefully, that's the point, they mean they are waiting for the right moment ...

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Aleksandr21

in the distant future ... most likely it will be, but certain conditions must be created for such a scenario (weak government of the Russian Federation, Russian war on 1-2 fronts: Donbass, South Ossetia, Transnistria, Karabakh, etc., internal instability: according to national sign, public dissatisfaction with living conditions, etc., + refusal to use nuclear weapons in the defense of the Kuril Islands).

And the author writes in general about a two-year perspective! The year 1903 was separated from 1905 by only two years.

Quote: Aleksandr21

The PRC has enough of its "friends", as many as two military blocs (QUAD and AUKUS) that will hold it back

Do you think Russia and China fundamentally cannot conclude a mutual assistance agreement?

[Civil]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Do you think Russia and China fundamentally cannot conclude a mutual assistance agreement?

The PRC last year officially refused to conclude an alliance with the Russian Federation.

[Vladimir_2U]

I don't see confirmation of your words, but I see this:

In particular, the President of Russia on October 22, 2020 in Novo-Ogarevo said that he fully admits the conclusion of a military alliance between the two countries, although "in general" they do not need it. To which the Chinese side immediately reacted "very warmly."

[Civil]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

In particular, the President of Russia on October 22, 2020 in Novo-Ogaryovo said that he fully admits the conclusion of a military alliance

Here is the softest article on the PRC's answer:
https://www.ng.ru/world/2021-03-03/1_8094_china.html
for this proposal GDP

What could be the fundamental foundations for a military alliance between the Russian Federation and the PRC?
How can the PRC trust, in matters of its security, a corrupt capitalist country in the world?
The PRC is quietly waiting for the Russians to surrender Siberia to them on their own. They have nowhere to rush, time is on their side, as is the economy. What is the point of them getting into confrontation with the main trading partner for the sake of the interests of a handful of bourgeoisie of the neighboring impoverished former superpower?

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Civil

Here is the softest article on the PRC's answer:
https://www.ng.ru/world/2021-03-03/1_8094_china.html
for this proposal GDP

And here are the lines from this article:

And this despite the fact that Russia itself has allies in the CSTO. China has also criticized the American system of alliances. Therefore, it is impossible for the parties to admit that they can conclude an alliance. Even if their relationship has the features inherent in a union, they will say at the level of rhetoric: "This is different, this is a very close partnership, mutual assistance and friendship."

And the article was written before the news about the probable delivery of nuclear submarines to Australia and before the creation of a specifically anti-Chinese bloc

[Civil]

China will not create a military alliance with Russia in any form, Chinese Ambassador to Russia Li Hui said in an interview with RIA Novosti.

The Chinese side hopes to develop comprehensive and deep cooperation with the Russian side, including military-technical cooperation, to constantly deepen the practical cooperation of the two states and friendly exchanges between the peoples of our countries, the Chinese diplomat said, adding that the speech is about a full-fledged military alliance, which would imply mutual protection in the event of an attack by third countries, cannot go.

(We) are not going to create a military alliance in any form, and the military cooperation of the two countries is not directed against a third party and does not affect the interests of third countries, ”Li Hui said.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Civil

China will not create a military alliance with Russia in any form, Chinese Ambassador to Russia Li Hui said in an interview with RIA Novosti.

Great news from 2015.

[Civil]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Great news from 2015.

Yes, even from 2025. Where is the union? The PRC has consistently joined the sanctions, especially in the banking sector.
The question is the same, why should China trust security, the country of the third world in decline?

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Civil

Yes, even from 2025. Where is the union? The PRC has consistently joined the sanctions, especially in the banking sector.

And what has not been since 1905? The world is changing. And what kind of sanctions are you talking about? This is which "Sberbank" against the Crimea all does not display?

Quote: Civil

The question is the same, why should China trust security, the country of the third world in decline?

No comment.

[svoroponov]

An alliance with China is optional. A pact of military-political support during the conflict is sufficient with a request for assistance in the event of an attack on China.

[Ryusei]

Are you talking about your homeland Outskirts? or are you one of the blacks living in the CAR?

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

I don't see confirmation of your words, but I see this:

In particular, the President of Russia on October 22, 2020 in Novo-Ogarevo said that he fully admits the conclusion of a military alliance between the two countries, although "in general" they do not need it. To which the Chinese side immediately reacted "very warmly."

It's like concluding an alliance with Germany in 39 ... China itself has views on our territory. We already have alliances in the CSTO, whose members use them exclusively in their own interests

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Pilat2009

It's like making an alliance with Germany at 39

That Russia is not the USSR, that China is not Germany, or vice versa. Our countries have no mutual claims. Whatever you pump up.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Quote: Pilat2009

It's like making an alliance with Germany at 39

That Russia is not the USSR, that China is not Germany, or vice versa. Our countries have no mutual claims. Whatever you pump up.

Really? And half of the Far East on Chinese maps is not Chinese? And on the anniversary of Damansky they did not come out with posters "we will not forget, we will not forgive"? By the way, at first Hitler had no complaints about the USSR

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Pilat2009

Really? And half of the Far East on Chinese maps is not Chinese?

What nonsense, what kind of plans are you writing about?

Quote: Pilat2009

and on the anniversary of Damansky, they did not come out with placards "we will not forget, we will not forgive"

What nonsense, why should you believe your words, completely unsubstantiated? Moreover, Damansky is part of the PRC, what a pity.

Quote: Pilat2009

by the way, at first Hitler had no complaints about the USSR

Everything is clear with you. Mein Kampf and Spain and the burning of the Reichstag are all fiction.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Quote: Pilat2009

Really? And half of the Far East on Chinese maps is not Chinese?

What nonsense, what kind of plans are you writing about?

Quote: Pilat2009

and on the anniversary of Damansky, they did not come out with placards "we will not forget, we will not forgive"

What nonsense, why should you believe your words, completely unsubstantiated? Moreover, Damansky is part of the PRC, what a pity.

Quote: Pilat2009

by the way, at first Hitler had no complaints about the USSR

Everything is clear with you. Mein Kampf and Spain and the burning of the Reichstag are all fiction.

Is it somehow connected with the claims to the USSR?

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Pilat2009

Is it somehow connected with the claims to the USSR?

And how are the claims of Hitlerite Germany against the USSR and the absence of claims of China and Russia against each other?

Quote: Pilat2009

Everything is clear with you. Mein Kampf and Spain and the burning of the Reichstag are all fiction.

If you are unclear about the connection of these things with Hitler's claims to the USSR, then I would like to hint: the "MK" indicates the path of German expansion to the east, in Spain in the 30s. The USSR fought against Nazi Germany and Italy, and the Bulgarian communists accused of setting fire to the USSR were able to defend with considerable reputational losses for Germany.

[Black5Raven]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Do you think Russia and China fundamentally cannot conclude a mutual assistance agreement?

I would remind all those who rely on the Chinese "brothers" that if something happens, they themselves would not mind getting a part of the Far East. Damansky and other border conflicts will not let you lie.
And unlike Japan or Australia, no one will come to the rescue.

[Vladimir_2U]

In particular, the President of Russia on October 22, 2020 in Novo-Ogarevo said that he fully admits the conclusion of a military alliance between the two countries, although "in general" they do not need it. To which the Chinese side immediately reacted "very warmly."

[eehnie]

China will not concede Taiwan in order to be friends of the rest of adversaries of Russia. It is not something realistic.

Plus, the deep rejection of China to Japan. Japan only needs to give one excuse to China.

[bayard]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

And the author writes in general about a two-year perspective! The year 1903 was separated from 1905 by only two years.

Do you think that in the next year or two there can be no conflicts on the borders of Russia?
Or in the Russian Federation itself?
Afghanistan?
Armenia?
Donbass?
Interethnic conflicts within the Russian Federation against the backdrop of an influx of guest workers and guests from the Caucasus?
And against this background, directly sabotage activities to prevent the restoration of the defense capability ... of the Navy in particular. And especially in the Pacific theater of operations.

Or do you think that the enemies will wait for the Russian Federation to restore its potential and ability to defend itself?
Or do you think that at least someone will support Russia in such a conflict?
Today, there is a direct analogy of those events - on the eve of the RYAV.
Only the RF is even weaker than then.
First of all, the quality of management, planning and control.
AND ECONOMY.
And if the Russian Federation fails in the conflict with Japan, then China will gladly take advantage of this.
With pleasure.
And the Kremlin leadership will hardly dare to take advantage of nuclear weapons.
For it did not dare to equip the Pacific Fleet and the Fleet as a whole with full-fledged ships, restore Naval Aviation and attend to anti-submarine defense.
Arming your Army and Navy is much cheaper than losing the war and losing EVERYTHING.
But apparently such a prospect no longer scares anyone.
And for someone it (such a prospect) is even desirable.

If there are more than two matches, they are no longer matches.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: bayard

Do you think that in the next year or two there can be no conflicts on the borders of Russia?

I don't see any prerequisites. Even with powerful Japan. And even without the threat of "glazing" Tokyo.

[shahor]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

I don't see any prerequisites.

Yes, here's an option. The first act. Syria. A minor conflict with the Turks develops into a regional conflict, the intensity and scale of which is growing. NATO is pulling naval forces with strike weapons into the eastern Mediterranean. Erdogan is blocking the straits. The supply of Russian units in Syria is possible only by air through the Iran-Iraq corridor. On the Iraqi-Syrian border, the United States and its allies have begun an Air Force exercise. The airspace is closed for flights. At this time, the Taliban suddenly entered the territory of Tajikistan. Part of the population supports them ... the Russian Federation needs to react ... At this time, the dad played out, on the border of Belarus and Poland, there was a conflict. Small so far. The NATO navy is pulling towards the Baltic coast. We need to react. Meanwhile, the Turks are pushing part of the fleet towards the Crimea. Part of the Russian Black Sea Fleet is blocked in the Mediterranean Sea and cannot help. Ukraine is concentrating forces and means on the border with Donetsk and Lugansk. It is necessary to react ... The Japanese are moving towards the islands - how to react .. China - thousands (large) peaceful agricultural workers in the Far East, Amur region, Siberia declare discrimination and ask the PRC government to protect their peaceful labor. The Chinese leadership meets the wishes of the workers and sends a limited (400-500 thousand) contingent of peacekeepers to protect them. The working people themselves find themselves on the street at one o'clock, having in their hands implements that are not similar to agricultural ones. Here's a stretch ... It got scary. If you don’t mind, I’ll take a brandy and soberly
I'll think it over ...

[Serge-667]

This nightmare, absolutely with this alignment, appears periodically too.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: shahor

If you don't mind, I'll take a brandy and soberly
I'll think it over ...

I do not mind, especially since you have already rolled well, judging by the comment.

In particular, the President of Russia on October 22, 2020 in Novo-Ogarevo said that he fully admits the conclusion of a military alliance between the two countries, although "in general" they do not need it. To which the Chinese side immediately reacted "very warmly."

[S. Nikolaev]

What is it, a world without Russia? And "why do we need such a world if Russia is not there?"

[Ryusei]

The forces are not enough to carry out this.

[S. Nikolaev]

Quote: Ryusey

The forces are not enough to carry out this.

If in "X hour" Russia does not have enough strength (or spirit) for this, then Nature itself will do it - she also does not need this inverted degenerate world

[Civil]

Quote: shahor

Quote: Vladimir_2U

I don't see any prerequisites.

Yes, here's an option. The first act. Syria. A minor conflict with the Turks develops into a regional conflict, the intensity and scale of which is growing. NATO is pulling naval forces with strike weapons into the eastern Mediterranean. Erdogan is blocking the straits. The supply of Russian units in Syria is possible only by air through the Iran-Iraq corridor. On the Iraqi-Syrian border, the United States and its allies have begun an Air Force exercise. The airspace is closed for flights. At this time, the Taliban suddenly entered the territory of Tajikistan. Part of the population supports them ... the Russian Federation needs to react ... At this time, the dad played out, on the border of Belarus and Poland, there was a conflict. Small so far. The NATO navy is pulling towards the Baltic coast. We need to react. Meanwhile, the Turks are pushing part of the fleet towards the Crimea. Part of the Russian Black Sea Fleet is blocked in the Mediterranean Sea and cannot help. Ukraine is concentrating forces and means on the border with Donetsk and Lugansk. It is necessary to react ... The Japanese are moving towards the islands - how to react .. China - thousands (large) peaceful agricultural workers in the Far East, Amur region, Siberia declare discrimination and ask the PRC government to protect their peaceful labor. The Chinese leadership meets the wishes of the workers and sends a limited (400-500 thousand) contingent of peacekeepers to protect them. The working people themselves find themselves on the street at one o'clock, having in their hands implements that are not similar to agricultural ones. Here's a stretch ... It got scary. If you don’t mind, I’ll take a brandy and soberly
I'll think it over ...

Already covered with cold sweat. Don't do this ... too realistic scenario. Let live in illusions.

[Griffith]

To this, Putin once said: why do we need a world without Russia? So in which case, and use nuclear weapons. That there would be nothing left of the world without Russia.

[shahor]

Quote: Griffit

Why do we need a world without Russia?

And what does it have to do without Russia? The fantastically realistic scenario I have described does not threaten the existence of Russia. No one is delivering a nuclear strike against the Russian Federation. Erdogan is consolidated in Syria. Ukraine squeezes its-Lugansk-Donetsk. Japan islands. She doesn't pretend to anything else. But China, with its polite smile, is a problem. Will we strike at the PRC? Destroy the lard of the Chinese? And they will answer. Russia will be in dust. There will still be lard left for the Chinese. The European Union and the United States are nervously smoking, figuring out how to feed the lard of hungry Chinese and how best to mark out their nuclear waste dump on the territory of former Russia - the contaminated territory is no good for another. Output. In my opinion, Russia's geopolitical problems have no military solution. It is necessary to find allies - yes, sometimes making compromises. We must be able to negotiate, and not be rude. I do not impose my opinion on anyone. You can, of course, choose an alternative approach - a world in dust. Just don't forget to kiss your grandchildren goodbye ... It's up to us.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: shahor

Ukraine squeezes its-Lugansk-Donetsk.

A realistic scenario? Without Crimea, how realistic it is, they forgot about the Crimea returned to the bosom of Ukraine.

[Ryusei]

1700 warheads would not even be enough to destroy the United States, let alone the entire world.

[eehnie]

If Turkey closes the strait, the Russian help to Syria will continue by land, and will certainly be increased.

Some years ago Vladimir Putin explained to Turkey and Saudi Arabia the consequence of a massive land operation to invade Syria. I think it will make you well to remind these words. Then Saudi Arabia sunk in Yemen and retired from the Syrian issue.

The comments about Afghanistan and China are certainly far from realistic. In the case of Afghanistan by the military weaknesses of the Taliban, and in the case of China by the strategic alliance with Russia. Also I think it would make you well to remind the position of the Chinese armed forces in the same side of Russia, in the military exercices near Japan and near the Baltic area. Even India joined Russia and China near the Baltic area.

About the rest of Russia is dealing with it successfully. And if required the words of Vladimir Putin to Ukraine, Japan or others will not be more kind that the words to Turkey and Saudi Arabia at the time.This is also certain.

[Stepan S]

If you don't mind, I'll take a brandy and soberly
I'll think it over ...

It looks like you first took cognac, then wrote a comment, and then went on to accept it.
It is necessary to so manage to pull by the ears all in one heap, "dreamers retired" here in the overabundance.

[Paladin]

For the complete completeness of the process, I would have dropped the firmament of heaven on the firmament of the earth. Then one bottle of brandy will not get off

[bayard]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

I don't see any prerequisites. Even with powerful Japan.

And they see.
They sleep and see.
And they will not be alone. Behind the back of the United States and Britain.
And "friendly" China with an ax on its back.
Look at things sensibly and assess threats soberly.
And our ancestors had already thrown their hats on the same theater of operations before.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: bayard

And our ancestors had already thrown their hats on the same theater of operations before.

And no need to talk about hats, just as it is not necessary to sprinkle ashes on your head. Once again, I would like to draw your attention to the fact that Japan had absolutely no deterrent before the RYA. Now this factor exists, the nuclear-missile factor, which has ter claims to Japan, a factor that has historical reasons to hate the Japanese factor. Nothing at all.

[Ryusei]

And you are not as smart as I thought, unfortunately, no one will let you use nuclear weapons in this war.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Ryusey

And you are not as smart as I thought, unfortunately, no one will let you use nuclear weapons in this war.

What did you do? Did you think? Who will believe you.

[Osipov9391]

At the Pacific Fleet, the Naval Aviation has in fact been gone for a long time. No shock at all !!!! Only (roughly speaking) a squadron of anti-submarine Il-38 and Tu-142 (they can hardly be taken into account - this is the beginning of the 80s of the last century) and approximately a squadron of MiG-31 in Kamchatka. And as I understand the early series without BM.
That's all there is. Well, also ... helicopters.
And there are no means of striking ships and bases on Japanese territory - the Tu-22M3 regiment in Vozdvizhenka was destroyed by Serdyukov and has not been restored.
Here is the alignment. AWACS aircraft and tankers are generally extremely rare in that region.

[bayard]

Well, there is still something in the Far East, incl. in Primorye and Khabarovsk Territory - Su-34 and even Su-35. But the available forces are clearly not enough. And if they are stretched out by conflicts over several theaters of operations, it will be difficult to strengthen the Far East direction. Therefore, the article, although purely about the DPL, but very vividly outlines our problems not only in the Far East, but also in the Armed Forces as a whole.
Solntseliko loves only parades and cheerful articles / media reports.
And although Japan can be simply washed away if need be, the consequences of such a conflict will still hiccup.
And if the Yapas are thinking about something, then their actions should be expected in the next 2 - 3 years, later ships of a new construction will go to the Pacific Fleet and for us everything will not be so bleak.
And it will probably feel better with aviation ...

[Paladin]

There are two more magic words. Seryshevo and Belaya. From Belaya, redeployment takes three hours and an hour to refuel, and from Seryshevo it is not necessary to relocate anyway, and so it will fly, even to San Francisco)))

[svoroponov]

Everything will be over time, there is already a submarine with an anairobic installation built and there are not bad means of detecting and countering enemy submarines, surface ships are being modernized and improved. They raise the economy, strengthen the army and navy based on the priority of danger in one direction or another, tasks are solved in stages based on the possibilities. The fact that the fleet loses in something does not mean a total loss. Yes, and victory in the capture of the islands can be Japan.
get by with losses that are fatal for her and her economy.
And more. Don't take enemy weapons data on faith. Advertising is the engine of trade. Often the declared characteristics of Western weapons are much better than the real ones.

[bayard]

Quote: svoroponov

Everything will be in time

Over time, it may be.
If this time will be.
And without time - trouble.
Who in history gave us TIME at least once, during periods of our weakness?

Quote: svoroponov

there is already a submarine with an anaerobic installation built

No, it didn’t appear. The DEPP was put into service in a "new" building, with new hardware saturation (in comparison with the Soviet one), and with OLD energy - a diesel engine + battery of the old type.

Quote: svoroponov

and there were not bad means of detecting and countering enemy submarines

Where did you meet them? Share the much-desired news.

Quote: svoroponov

surface ships are being modernized and improved.

How many of these ships are in stock?
What is their quality, armament composition, technical condition and age?
How many SSGNs and MAPLs are in combat readiness in the Pacific Fleet, out of those on the payroll?
Why hasn't anyone repaired them until very recently? I am simply silent about modernization - dreams of the unrealizable.

Quote: svoroponov

Raise the economy

Where does it come from?
What devices?
Or, in your opinion, is "negative growth" also progress and development?
Don't get fooled by numbers. Look at the ruble exchange rate in 2013 and today. look at the BUYING POWER of the ruble and how many times it has dropped over the years.
Look at the REAL inflation rate this year - food prices will help you understand this and understand the order of inflation figures.
... You will of course be told about ... 7% inflation.
This is not true . Real and very modestly calculated inflation just this year was more than 20%, but the year is not over yet ... but the elections have already passed. It is time for prices to show their growth in order to please with wonderful statistics of the "growth" of the economy. It is counted in rubles, isn't it?
If growth is drawn to you at 3%, and inflation is 20-30%, then what will be the real "negative economic growth"?
Correctly 17 - 27%.
Recession.
In one year.

Quote: svoroponov

tasks are solved in stages based on the possibilities.

From opportunities?
This is probably why our ZRV and NWF are constantly growing.
The economy is falling, the people are becoming impoverished, and they are growing money-boxes.
What does it mean ?
This means that the people are becoming impoverished and the economy is falling (and it has been falling systemically since about 2011, although then there was perhaps stagnation, and since 2014 - consistently and steadily) JUST BECAUSE all the funds for growth are withdrawn from us in these money-boxes and withdraw them (funds) into the securities and assets of the enemy.
How can the head of the family boast that he has a stash in store for "years of comfortable life", when his children go hungry, the fence has collapsed, the watchdog is dead and the gun is rusted?

Quote: svoroponov

... The fact that the fleet loses in something does not mean a total loss.

In the case of Japan, this is exactly the case - because all communication with our islands and Kamchatka is ONLY by sea. And they have a multiple advantage not only in the navy, but also in aviation (!), Its quality and the quality of its weapons.

Quote: svoroponov

Don't take enemy weapons data on faith. The advertisement is engine of the trade .

What is important and true, including with regard to domestic weapons.
You can’t even imagine HOW MUCH the quality, quantity, or just the presence of critically important models and types of weapons in the modern Armed Forces of the Russian Federation does not correspond.
And the parades were on the eve of the RYAV.
Gorgeous parades.
But the war came and the news The parade fleet ... drowned.
Not drowning a single enemy ship in battle.
Apart from the two battleships that exploded on a mine bank near Port Arthur. But this was not an artillery battle. Not a torpedo attack.
And how the propaganda threw hats. And caps. The day before ...
And then the SHAME of the lost war split and destroyed the Republic of Ingushetia - she did not endure this shame and died 12 years after it.
After losing another war
How did it happen?
QUALITY OF CONTROL.
And total betrayal, sabotage and sabotage of the ruling elite.
Everything is lost BEFORE.
As in the case of RYAV.
They tried very hard.

[Osipov9391]

In the case of Japan, their fleet and aviation are multiplied by the action of a couple of US AUGs from the Yokosuka base, their numerous carrier-based aviation, coastal aviation from Japanese and South Korean bases, and strategic aviation from Guam and the Hawaiian Islands.
All few air defense systems will simply be crushed numerically.

[Adrey]

In the case of Japan, their fleet and aviation are multiplied by the action of a couple of US AUGs from the Yokosuka base, their numerous carrier-based aviation, coastal aviation from Japanese and South Korean bases, and strategic aviation from Guam and the Hawaiian Islands.
All few air defense systems will simply be crushed numerically.
[b] [/ b] May the Americans not interfere. The Yapi themselves can cope without any problems. Their superiority in theater of operations is overwhelming.

[Osipov9391]

And in general, then, the United States can take a neutral position in the event of a conflict between Japan and Russia? Like, don't hook our bases - we won't interfere.
Although the Japanese have much more impressive strength than all the American bases on their territory and South Korea.

[Adrey]

And in general, then, the United States can take a neutral position in the event of a conflict between Japan and Russia? Like, don't hook our bases - we won't interfere.
Why would they interfere? What goals will be achieved by this? Only the escalation of a regional conflict into a third world conflict with the use of nuclear weapons. It’s not in their best interest.

[Osipov9391]

So the Japanese Navy and Navy are immediately isolating our support for the Kuril Islands, while simultaneously adjusting the supply of their occupying group?
Su-35S and Su-30 from Central Corner, Dzemgi and Khurba will operate at the limit of their radius over the Sea of ​​Japan.
The Japanese have hundreds of fighters, control of the radar situation, AWACS aircraft.
And also the ground forces and the marines. This is several times greater than the presence of the Eastern Military District.

[Adrey]

Yapam have enough strength for this

[Osipov9391]

Will mobilization of reservists in the Far East give something or is it pointless?

[Adrey]

"Guerrillas" with small arms? Yes, and the Yapas will not climb to the mainland, and they cannot be transported to the islands, and why? We end the discussion

[svoroponov]

You know, even if the entire budget is directed to the construction of the fleet, it will still not work as quickly as desired. The point is that there is nowhere for economic opportunities and there is no one to realize all this at once. And shipyards and the necessary enterprises, their construction or re-equipment take time. Therefore, the minimum required at the moment to inflict enough damage on the enemy, if anything, is determined and rebuilt, and then all this minimum sufficient is completed and upgraded to the required level.
It's like a house that you build yourself - first you build the foundation, and then, based on the possibilities, build on the floors. Even if you catch up with thousands of builders, you will not build it in a day, even if you are a billionaire.

[bayard]

Quote: svoroponov

You know, even if the entire budget is directed to the construction of the fleet, it will still not work as quickly as desired.

This is what characterizes the QUALITY OF CONTROL.
When in 2014 we were denied the Nikolaev power plant for our ships and it became clear that our shipbuilding programs were going to hell ... why weren't measures taken? Almost 8 years have passed. And after all, in 2015 - 1016. representatives of the Pacific Fleet headquarters visited Chinese shipyards to order frigates there for eight 054A (with modernization for our weapons) and two UDC 071. And the Chinese generally proposed to build 20 frigates and 4 UDC ...
But the deal was thwarted.
But frigates 054A equipped with a GAK from our corvettes 20380, with the installation of 1 - 2 UKSK on the waist and the Shtil air defense system (and there is a Chinese version of Shtil), would have already been built and would have quite significantly defused the situation in terms of providing PLO and control of water areas ...
But this was not done!
For 20 years, the issue of organizing the repair, modernization and maintenance of the Pacific Fleet's MPS and SSGNs has not been resolved !!! As a result, only TWO such submarines are in service and ready for combat - one MAPL of project 971 and one SSGN 949A.
And the capacities were there, the Zvyozdochka shipyard stood without orders and funding.
There was no money ???
Lies!
There was sabotage.
And complete carelessness.

You are apparently still quite young and have a poor idea of ​​the current reality.
All the failures, breakdowns and inaction are the consequences of the disgusting quality of management.
Why is this management like this?
I'll leave the choice to you.
Or it is completely incompetent and irresponsible.
Or it understands everything, but leads deliberate sabotage and sabotage.
And like Comrade Stalin, it is just right to ask the question: "Are you an enemy, go ... an absolute fool?" ...

If the plans for the construction of warships are obviously thwarted, then it was quite natural that it was necessary to compensate for this weakness by strengthening aviation. Strike, fighter, anti-submarine, naval missile ... was that done?
Not !
What's the problem here?
Why have purchases of combat aircraft been consistently reduced in recent years?
The Supreme Commander-in-Chief responded to this.
That they have already bought enough planes and we DO NOT NEED more ... Switch to the production of pots and coffee makers.
And it doesn't matter that even what is being built for the Navy is being built ... not for war. Not for the defense and security of the country. Look at the composition of the armament of the new "Varshavyanka" - they do not have a BUGAS !! They are completely blind and defenseless in the rear hemisphere. !!! They do not have a low-frequency range for the hydro-acoustic complex.
Why
Will it do well?
Will there be no war?
Or is it a clearly marked position - a sabotage position?
Aimed at the maximum weakening of the Fleet and Defense in general?

If tomorrow the Japanese seize the disputed islands, the Pacific Fleet and the Aerospace Forces will not have time to prevent this, and from the moment of their capture, the Japanese will de jure defend their territory, because they have never recognized our jurisdiction over them. And the United States will support them in this, because they have also always recognized the islands as Japanese.
We will have very little time to react, only while there are battles on the islands. After that, any strikes on the islands will be interpreted as a strike on Japanese territory.
It is in order to prevent this that we need a capable Fleet, Aviation and landing ships for the timely transfer of reinforcements.

And for so many years, practically nothing has been done to solve this problem.
And the nuclear bombing of the Japanese islands would certainly be very instructive, visual and effective, but ... in order to decide on this, you need to have really iron genitals.
What if this happens against the backdrop of NATO exercises in Poland and the Baltic states, the offensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Donbass, the attacks of Turkey and Azerbaijan on Armenia and the start of the Taliban invasion of Central Asia?
The fastest and most effective way to stop this problem would be to deploy fighter and strike forces in Primorye and Sakhalin. At least 2 - 3 regiments.
And an urgent order in China for a series of frigates (modernized for our order) and UDC.
And finally, start building a fleet at our own facilities.
To abandon the construction of corvettes according to vague projects (at a price like a frigate, but with truncated submarine capabilities) and build only frigates pr. 22350 and 22350M at all available capacities - Kaliningrad, St. Petersburg, Amur Shipyard, Zaliv in Kerch.

[Stepan S]

Have you ever looked at what is happening in the world with inflation and with the economy as a whole? You turn on the TV sometimes, it's helpful. Or do you think that we have the same problems? Now the same Chinese and Europeans would have problems with energy prices on the eve of winter. Industry is rising in developed countries, supply chains are covered with a copper basin. The same Japan is 100% dependent on energy supplies. There, the slightest failure and in winter will not seem a little. You have to look wider, wider.

[bayard]

Quote: Stepan S

You have to look wider, wider.

That is, in the fact that back in 2015 - 2016. frigates and UDC were not ordered in China, are they to blame ... the increased prices for hydrocarbons today and the fantastic virus that appeared last year?
Is the electricity prices in developed countries to blame for the fact that the Ministry of Defense has been consistently curtailing purchases of military aircraft in recent years?
I'm talking about systemic "mistakes" for which people are shot in normal countries.
In China, they would definitely be shot. But this could not have happened there.
Or maybe the fact that absolutely all aircraft building programs in civil and transport aviation have completely failed in our country, are the "world trends" also to blame?
And in the creation of special aviation aircraft?
Intelligence?
AWACS?
Anti-submarine?
Aircraft for sea reconnaissance and target designation?
Maybe we have breakthroughs in engine building?
I'm not talking about sewer breakouts.
In aircraft engine building?
In marine diesel engines?
Where is the diesel engine with 10 l / s promised for a long time?
Maybe we have established the production of a radio component base, at least in the "military-space" segment?
No . And I didn't think. We are saving ourselves by deliveries from China.
So what's the success ??
Where are the breakouts ???

And I was talking about the economic and industrial recession, not only in the sense of the last two years.
Not .
This decline has been going on since 2014.
Remember what you could afford to pay for your salary in 2013-2014. , and compare that with today. On your own wallet, estimate the rate of inflation.
Even if the devaluation by 2,5 times dropped the ruble.
Inflation over these years was at least 200 - 250%.
And how much did the income in rubles "increase"?
Here is the reason for the recession - domestic demand is collapsing (if you count in real terms, but at least in dollars or euros, which also sagged during this time ... but HOW the ruble sank!). Plus, the government does not lend to its own business at all. All funds of the NWF and gold reserves are stored EXCLUSIVELY in foreign currency and in foreign securities, in fact CREDITING THE ENEMY ... with which it (the authorities) is allegedly fighting fiercely.

Quote: Stepan S

You have to look wider, wider.

And then the cap will no longer be needed.
Most wars are played before they even start.

[svoroponov]

Rearmament is carried out depending on financial capabilities and military priorities. Everything will be, it will take time. And in the General Staff they are not fools, believe me. If there is a lack of naval forces, then this is stopped by other means and capabilities, which are not reported to you and the enemy.

[Spring fluff]

In my opinion, you do not correctly assess the attitude of China to the Russian Federation. Try to imagine the situation - Communist China, with a developed economy and growing military forces. At the same time, in the 19th century, China ceded significant territories to the Russian Empire.
(Amur region, Ussuri region).
The last armed conflicts over the territory of the USSR with China were in the 1960s. With the use of heavy weapons - tanks, missiles. Moreover, it is our state that has collapsed and changed, but they have it all the same China.
On the other hand, the current Russian Federation is apparently a capitalist ideology, the economy and the armed forces, let's say, are not in their best shape, and demography is generally bad.
If you look at the picture with a detached view, then China's desire for some reason to help us in a potential war is not visible. Rather demand their piece of the pie.

[Dimon Krasnodar]

In fact, Japan has no missile defense system, as well as an echeloned air defense system.
In case of aggravation and conflict between our countries, the fate of Japan is not enviable. In fact, everything will be decided in a couple of days of the conflict. The main trump card of the Russian Federation is a missile strike from air carriers with missiles х555, х34, х101, and launching missiles from the territory of Russian airspace. Predicted salvo of up to a hundred missiles in the first wave. Carriers Tu-95, Tu-160, Tu22m3 and m3m. Targets in Japan 5-6 largest oil depots and naval bases.
Thus, the country of the rising sun will find itself in energy isolation for a long time and will not be able to continue military operations.
The task of the Russian Navy, the defense by all forces of the areas of the Gulf of Peter the Great and Kamchatka, is simply to hold out for several days. Air defense in the areas of bases in the Far East, echeloned from the Japanese Air Force, we will fight off without problems.
Here is a real forecast of hostilities.
And I did not count the calibers on the nuclear submarine, they can also give a good blow to sensitive places in the infrastructure of Japan.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Dimon Krasnodar

In fact, Japan has no missile defense system, as well as an echeloned air defense system.
In case of aggravation and conflict between our countries, the fate of Japan is not enviable. In fact, everything will be decided in a couple of days of the conflict. The main trump card of the Russian Federation is a missile strike from air carriers with missiles х555, х34, х101, and launching missiles from the territory of Russian airspace. Predicted salvo of up to a hundred missiles in the first wave. Carriers Tu-95, Tu-160, Tu22m3 and m3m. Targets in Japan 5-6 largest oil depots and naval bases.
Thus, the country of the rising sun will find itself in energy isolation for a long time and will not be able to continue military operations.
The task of the Russian Navy, the defense by all forces of the areas of the Gulf of Peter the Great and Kamchatka, is simply to hold out for several days. Air defense in the areas of bases in the Far East, echeloned from the Japanese Air Force, we will fight off without problems.
Here is a real forecast of hostilities.
And I did not count the calibers on the nuclear submarine, they can also give a good blow to sensitive places in the infrastructure of Japan.

Have you ever read the articles of a very literate person named Bongo (aka Linnik)?
Well, I’m asking you to understand the level of your "hat-bearing" ...
Although, judging by the ciras, this is the reincarnation of RomarioAgro ...
The same "mathematician of the" alternative reality "....

[bayard]

Quote: Dimon Krasnodar

The main trump card of the Russian Federation is a missile strike from air carriers with missiles x555, x34, x101,

They forgot about the "Daggers" in Transbaikalia.
But if you choose your tactics, then we are guaranteed to lose the disputed islands, and perhaps not only them, but almost the entire rest of the chain.
It is not right .

[SovAr238A]

Quote: bayard

Quote: NA-335

The main trump card of the Russian Federation is a missile strike from air carriers with missiles x555, x34, x101,

They forgot about the "Daggers" in Transbaikalia.
But if you choose your tactics, then we are guaranteed to lose the disputed islands, and perhaps not only them, but almost the entire rest of the chain.
It is not right .

The account listed as "NA-335DimonKrasnodar" has nothing to do with Russia.
He is an ordinary sent troll.
Which is just a short-sighted character!
Accordingly, all his words are empty! empty!

[Dimon Krasnodar]

This is my opinion, I argued it.
How can you refute, let's have a discussion?
Japan does not have the ability to act on a global scale, it is a weak country without a crab and crab.
Any sensitive blow to its infrastructure creates a perfect storm for the functioning of the state. They could not cope with Fukushima as small children, but they could not cope with the strike of cruise missiles and the gigantic damage and would demand peace. They won't even dream of any islands.
And yet, I'm not a troll, I live in Russia, I analyze the questions of what will happen if ...
In Japan, the analysis is disappointing; in the event of a conflict with Russia, it will suffer severe material damage and severe reputational damage.
I advise in such matters not to think tactically, but to present the situation in the global strategic plan, to compare forces, capabilities, reserves.
What Russia could have been demonstrated in Syria, about 1000 cruise missiles were fired at targets.
There are plans for Japan too, so the leaders of our state are so calm and even arrogant with them.

[Dimon Krasnodar]

Not funny.
You better collect the arguments against and put on the shelves why I'm wrong.
If you can't, then why are you writing nonsense.

[bayard]

Quote: Dimon Krasnodar

Not funny.

And I didn’t try to amuse.

Quote: Dimon Krasnodar

You better collect the arguments against and put on the shelves why I'm wrong.

I have them, but they are too many for a short post.

Quote: Dimon Krasnodar

Any sensitive blow to its infrastructure creates a perfect storm for the functioning of the state.

This is true, but the Japanese islands are stuffed with American bases and are under their protection. Any blow to their infrastructure falls under the ally protection clause. After all, the Americans recognize the disputed islands ... Japanese. And they insist on it.
The Japanese can seize these islands with one dash and we simply will not have time to react, and the garrisons will not be able to cope. Then the Yapas will protect them as their own.
We will not be able to repulse them - we have neither the fleet nor the aviation for this.
Japan's very good nuclear submarines block and overheat our ships when leaving the bases, and there is nothing to fight with them. The old stuff that remains in service is useless and will not help.
Diesel submarines of the Pacific Fleet - also, for the reason described by the author above.
Aviation?
Its forces, in comparison with the Japanese Air Force, are insignificant and will be forced to act at the limit of the combat radius and WITHOUT the support of AWACS aircraft (they simply do not exist).
And the Japanese will act very actively, isolating the area of ​​hostilities and actively countering the underwater threat, which, in general, is small. With their PLO aviation capabilities, this will end very quickly.
What else are PLO aircraft good for?
And the fact that, in need, they can act as AWACS aircraft, because they have side-looking radars. This is in addition to the fact that they also have classic AWACS aircraft (Hokai).
What else remains?
RF strikes with cruise missiles.
Which ones?
Yes, different.
There are some old supersonic anti-ship missiles on SSGNs and Varyag. But their number is small, because in the ranks one serviceable SSGN (24 anti-ship missiles) and the Varyag itself (16 anti-ship missiles), and they will fly mainly at ships ... if you can get reliable target designation. And this is oh, how not just in a real war, and even more so - in that theater of operations.
Well, okay - we received target designation, flew ... but these anti-ship missiles have long been quite a regular target for shipborne air defense systems of the Aegis system , and the salvo, by definition, will be insufficient in density and power. And for the most part he will be beaten off.
And Japan has a LOT of ships.
Calibers with submarines (two) do not count - this is along the coast or PLUR.

Along the shore .
What?
Long-Range Aviation.
We have it. There is also a CD for this.
But these missiles are subsonic, for stationary targets, and have a low flight profile.
Difficult goal?
It depends on who / what for.
For ground and naval air defense systems - yes, the target is difficult, the detection range and the time to defeat is very short.
But.
But for fighter aircraft under the direction of AWACS aircraft, as well as PLO aircraft (of which the Yap have at least 100 units!), These are very simple targets.
And another digression - will we have a CD in a non-nuclear version?
And how many are needed?
Considering that most of them will be guaranteed to be intercepted and destroyed?
How many such missile launchers are needed to destroy a naval base?
A military airfield?
If their combat (explosive) value is equal to the old FAB-500?
That's it.
And each assigned target will have its own object air defense.
And if we hit civilian infrastructure, we will become barbarians in the face of the world community. Etita will immediately lose all his savings, real estate and relatives abroad. All trade payments will stop, sea trade will be blocked and no one will buy our resources.
Maybe even China.
Or China will be, but with a VERY large discount.

Now about the strategic and geopolitical background of all this action.
Japan will decide on such decisive actions ONLY in coordination with other players (not the main ones) in order to stretch the resources and forces of the Russian Federation on several fronts, not to allow the concentration of sufficient forces in one of the directions.
The Russian army is ... SMALL.
The Ground Forces are counting only 280 thousand people.
Plus the Airborne Forces ...
Plus the Marines.
These are tears. There may not be enough forces in one direction.
Aviation?
It is extremely small in number and unbalanced - there are no AWACS aircraft, tankers, reconnaissance aircraft, PLO aircraft, naval reconnaissance and target designation.
KR?
And there are not many of them either. Quite a bit when you look at our needs for them in ALL directions.
And there are no carriers for them.
There are no ships - carriers of "Caliber", "Onyx", "Zircon". What is - minuscule and does not really matter.
Especially in the Pacific theater of operations.
And practically NOTHING has been done to solve these problems.
For SO many years. When the money, and the technical ability was there, and the staff were still alive.
The ships were not modernized, REPAIRED and not built!
And to nod at the "non-brothers" that the power plant was not given to the ships is not serious.
There were other options as well.
They were not used.
I would analyze each case point by point, but laziness does not make sense.
Now the most important thing for the authorities is "vaccination", mask mode, digitalization of everything and all and the introduction of as many fines, taxes and fees as possible.
And yes - cities in Siberia and the construction of the "world's most grandiose" tidal hydroelectric power station in Kamchatka.
"The USSR could not, but we can!" ... How much did the project cost before?
200 moliards dollars. ?
Is it even more expensive now?
It doesn’t matter - Russia has a lot of money, and for cities, and for this weird hydroelectric power station in the middle of nowhere without consumers within a radius of many thousands of kilometers is enough.
After all, it is necessary to burn all state reserves as quickly as possible?
It should!
And they will burn it.
And they will master it.
And they will cure everyone.

[Osipov9391]

It is not a fact that at the right time the Japanese ships with the Aegis system will not receive the Tomahawks from their older brother. If such a technical capability is there.
And this is much more serious. They will be able to reach the most important targets in the Far East, including Komsomolsk-on-Amur.
If the Japanese aviation damages airfields and ground air defenses in Primorye, almost all the "goodies" will go to their destination.

[bayard]

The Japanese themselves are working on their own sea and air-based CDs. Incl. supersonic and hypersonic.

[svoroponov]

In the event of an OBD, aviation will be dispersed immediately. As a child, I was still surprised why sections with a width of 20 meters and a length of 2-3 kilometers appear on the tracks, until I became a pilot myself. It's just that many, even those who served in adjacent branches of the armed forces in the rank and file and sometimes even in the rank of junior officers, do not know much about the capabilities of adjacent branches of the armed forces, or they are simply not interested.

[svoroponov]

There are only a few American bases in Japan; they do not recognize the disputed islands of Japan. But the truth is that the Japanese are tempted to return them. The Americans did not recognize as part of the USSR, only the Baltic countries.

[silver_roman]

and given the intensity in the same rhetoric, they feel the weakness of our Pacific Fleet. but a treaty for the Yap is not needed, and territory is needed with the help of a treaty. It is much easier to sign a paper and get the islands than to fight even with our bloodless Pacific Fleet.

[seacap]

I agree, as a small but significant addition, do not miss Kazakhstan, where events are developing exactly according to the "square" scenario, with the same helplessness and complete inaction on the part of the "first capital", or because of the wretchedness and mediocrity of the "gifted" news people (life is a success), or due to a lack of intelligence and competence (durvkov, it seems, should not be there), bordering on banal sabotage and cowardice.

[eehnie]

Do you realize the United States, with the NATO, the AUKUS, the QUAD and more have been defeated in Afghanistan the last summer?

[Artyom Karagodin]

True, after we apply TNW, such sanctions await us that all the current pressure will seem like a child's tale. We will really become a rogue country like the DPRK. In any case, the chances of this are very high.

[Doccor18]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

after we apply TNW, such sanctions await us that all the current pressure will seem like a child's tale.

Exactly. This is for fans of all "glazing" at once and forever ...

[Artyom Karagodin]

Once with one acquaintance (a good man, but one hundred percent patriot-hat-taker) we talked about politics, including military. When he began to destroy his picture of the world by comparing the number of our submarines and the American ones, their speed of silent movement, weapons, he ran into real frenzy, right up to the loss of the ability to think logically. "How hard, however, it is with your" golden dreams "inspired by Russian propaganda" - then I thought with amazement.

[Doccor18]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

... "How hard it is, however, with your" golden dreams "

I absolutely agree with you. I have already gone through this, so dialogues on military and political topics with some colleagues and relatives are taboo, in order to avoid a "world-class" scandal ...

[Artyom Karagodin]

Only in the phrase you quoted did I miss the word "part".

[Doccor18]

Yes, parting is hard, but living is stupid or criminal ...

[I am not a robot]

how do you know the real speed of the silent running of submarines

[timokhin-aa]

The difference between Ash and Virginia is about three times in favor of Virginia.

[I am not a robot]

someone held a competition or what, it seems to me this is very secret information and it is unlikely that it will be freely available

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Janerobot

someone was running a competition

Can you refute the author's statement? At least with the official performance characteristics?

[I am not a robot]

the author asserts, and he must confirm with something,

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Janerobot

the author asserts, and he must confirm with something,

According to the rules of dialogue, the burden of refutation lies with the opponent.
Prove the author wrong with numbers, you will seem smarter.

[I am not a robot]

Ie, for example, I came up with (without providing any evidence), you doubted, and you must prove to me that you doubted correctly, this is what nonsense you are writing

[Ingvar 72]

You write nonsense. The author on the site is a respected person (unlike some), and he is seriously working on the topic. If you disagree with something, refute it. And then every troll will be tortured to prove something.
PS For zaputintsa it would be good luck to poke the author's nose in the wrong. But you play as usual.

[I am not a robot]

well, according to the secret data, the ash tree has a silent running speed of 30 knots, and the virginia has only 1 knot = denied everything, do not agree, provide me with the complete refutation data, including the one with the top secret, and if you cannot, then you are balabol
ps. this is a military site and I want to learn something new about military equipment, not your fight with Putin

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Janerobot

well, according to secret data, the ash tree has a quiet running speed of 30 knots, and the virginia has only 1 knot = everything is denied

How convenient it is to explain everything with secrecy! Although for foreign "partners" this is not a secret. How the secret of the performance characteristics of their submarines is not made. The secret is how to achieve performance characteristics, no more.
What is truly unique in Russia in the world is the number of pro-government trolls.

[I am not a robot]

Am I saying something about power, I gave you secret data, you doubt, give evidence,
the maximum silent speed is quite a secret

[Boa kaa]

Quote: timokhin-aa

The difference between Ash and Virginia is about three times in favor of Virginia.

Alexander! Cut the sturgeon in half!
Not three, but twice, but still a bit too much ...

[svoroponov]

This is when comparing the noise at Ash's maximum speed to Virginia's sneaking speed. In the west, they know how to draw up a TTD.
For example: 1. The maximum speed of the F-15 is about 3 km / h, but this is the indicator speed when testing an empty one (when diving at high altitude).
2. Actual indicator up to 2200 km / h at high altitude.
3. The instrumentation at the ground (at the empty one during testing) is only about 1400 km / h due to the limitations on the high-speed pressure on the glider. This means that he has great restrictions on overload. That is, this is not an air superiority plane as advertised. That is, he only has good rocket armament with which they try to compensate for the lack of maneuverability (and preferably by shooting from a long distance). The Bulgarians conducted exercises with the Americans on the MiG-29, and so, if they avoided long-range missiles, then the Americans had no chance further on the F-15
Therefore, points 1 and 2 are usually omitted.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: svoroponov

This is when comparing the noise at Ash's maximum speed to Virginia's sneaking speed.

No, this is the quietest boat speed possible. Determined by the onset of cavitation on the propeller blades.
We've got about 9-10 knots, and the Yankees say Virginia has about 20 knots. The Yankees are lying, probably, as usual ...

[I am not a robot]

yes, where does all this data come from, I'm wondering where it can be read
Yankees say it's all the evidence

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Janerobot

where can I read it

On the internet, you will not find other sources for you, if you are not a military man, and even less a submariner. Everyone has their own sources of information ... Many people know a lot ... but not everything can be posted on the site ...
So, look - and you will find!

[I am not a robot]

well then, probably you shouldn't speak confidently, especially from the photo that the suicide sailors

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Janerobot

well then, probably you shouldn't speak confidently, especially from the photo that the suicide sailors

This is not my opinion, but the reserve of M. Klimov. He got a little excited. But this did not make the problem less significant ...
Shocking is one of the PR techniques to "cheer up" the public. Among specialists, Max does not use such techniques.

[K298rtm]

1. Even if this is so, then it actually gives an advantage, mainly only in search performance.
2. In AB, this advantage is practically unrealizable (I somehow have a bad idea of ​​maneuvering at 12-18 nodes in the Arctic). By the way, is it not this "advantage" that played a decisive role in the results of the collision with the Los Angeles seamount. earlier and recent Sea Wolfe with NGOs?

[timokhin-aa]

Is search performance not important? In addition, I will take the liberty of arguing - in many conditions of hydrology, the detection range of a target with a known portrait is significantly higher than the firing range, and the low-noise stroke makes it possible to quickly and covertly approach the target at a weapon range.

[Serge-667]

Well, here you need to add right away - at the opposite heading angles. Otherwise, no advantage.

[Looking for]

And the balabol is supposed to know this by the status of the balabol.

[Vladimir1155]

when he explained to the stubborn members of the aircraft carrier sect, the simple truths that there is no money for AV, no pier, no docks, that he has no tasks, that he is vulnerable and has no cover ...

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

ran into real fury, to the point of losing the ability to think logically. "How hard, however, it is with your" golden dreams "inspired by national propaganda" - then I thought with amazement.

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

Once with one acquaintance (a good man, but one hundred percent patriot-hat-taker) we talked about politics, including military. When he began to destroy his picture of the world by comparing the number of our submarines and the American ones, their speed of silent movement, weapons, he ran into real frenzy, right up to the loss of the ability to think logically. "How hard, however, it is with your" golden dreams "inspired by national propaganda" - then I thought with amazement

And why are you looking at the mote in your brother's eye, but you don't feel the beam in your eye? 4 Or how will you say to your brother, "Let me take the speck out of your eye," and behold, there is a log in your eye? 5 Hypocrite! First take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see how to remove the speck from your brother's eye. Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 7, verses 3-5

Monkey, in the Mirror, seeing his image.
Quietly the Bear kicked:
“Look,” says: “my dear godfather!
What is that face there?
What are her grimaces and jumps!
I would have strangled myself with longing
Whenever she ever looked like her.
And, after all, admit, there is
From my gossips of such krivlyak five or six:
10 I can even count them on my fingers. "
"What to consider gossip to work,
Isn't it better to turn on yourself, godfather? ”
Mishka answered her.
But Mishenkin's advice just vanished.
-----

There are many such examples in the world:
No one likes to know himself in satire.
I even saw that yesterday:
That Klimych is unclean on hand, everyone knows this;
People read about bribes to Klimich.
20And he furtively nods at Peter.

[Ryusei]

All the same, you have not got off the drug, but in vain degradation on the face.

[Artyom Karagodin]

Bravo, colleague!

[Ryusei]

It quickly passes with the first blow of the CD or the first funeral of the children.

[Griffith]

Another nonsense. We can become an outcast for the Anglo-Saxons. But the Naglo-Saxons are not the whole world. The Americans used nuclear weapons, but they did not become outcasts.

[I am not a robot]

if we apply tiao, there will already be a fuck about the sanctions

[Rostislav]

Quote: Doccor18

after we apply TNW, such sanctions await us that all the current pressure will seem like a child's tale.

Exactly. This is for fans of all "glazing" at once and forever ...

So what? Express regret in response to an attack?
"If a country chooses shame between war and shame, it will receive both war and shame." Time-tested.

[Victor Leningradets]

Exactly the opposite!
The occupation of Czechoslovakia in 1968 for SIX HOURS gave rise to unprecedented peacefulness and readiness for "mutually beneficial" cooperation among the "partners" in the 70s of the last century. Detente, sir!

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Victor Leningradets

Exactly the opposite!
The occupation of Czechoslovakia in 1968 for SIX HOURS gave rise to unprecedented peacefulness and readiness for "mutually beneficial" cooperation among the "partners" in the 70s of the last century. Detente, sir!

So to connect two interdependent events - you need to be able to ...
The occupation of Kuwait led to the hanging of Saddam, and plunging his country into 30 years of chaos and suffering ....
The capture of Crimea also did not yield any mutually beneficial deeds.
Only a fall in the ruble exchange rate, a drop in living standards, a shortage of high-quality equipment and much more ...
We are now not much different from Iraq.
And you cannot compare with the USSR.

[Victor Leningradets]

We will not be a new USSR - we will disappear altogether!
A bear cannot become a reptile.
The main thing is to have the initiative. Our partners are enchantingly lost in unexpected attacks. But the strategy, you are right, must be backed up financially, and this is what the article is about.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Victor Leningradets

We will not be a new USSR - we will disappear altogether!
A bear cannot become a reptile.

And who took the bear for the symbol of the country?
In pre-revolutionary Russia, in the USSR, the bear was not a symbol ...
He was only in American cartoons.
With a bottle of vodka and a hat with earflaps ...

Or Putin rode it on horseback and made it a symbol of some kind of party.
But not the people and not the country ...

The bear is not my symbol.
Cannibal, scavenger, shitting from loud noise, sleeping six months.

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: SovAr238A

The capture of Crimea also did not yield any mutually beneficial deeds.
Only a fall in the ruble exchange rate, a drop in living standards, a shortage of high-quality equipment and much more ...

you are deeply mistaken, all of the above is not the result of ridiculous sanctions, but the result of the general world crisis and the treacherous policy of the economic bloc of the government and the central bank

[SovAr238A]

Quote: vladimir1155

Quote: SovAr238A

The capture of Crimea also did not yield any mutually beneficial deeds.
Only a fall in the ruble exchange rate, a drop in living standards, a shortage of high-quality equipment and much more ...

you are deeply mistaken, all of the above is not the result of ridiculous sanctions, but the result of the general world crisis and the treacherous policy of the economic bloc of the government and the central bank

Suddenly...
By 2012, all countries of the world have fully recovered from the 2008 crisis ...
We, since 2008, and then especially since 2014, fall into a pit, with the devaluation of the currency from 25 to 71 rubles (and it was that up to 80, people then bought up at 100-120 rubles per dollar, because at least how then keep your own) for a dollar.
If someone does not remember already, but I will remind you how in 2014 everything was swept away in stores.
The most expensive cars were swept away. Volvo, Mercedes, BMW - all bought just to spend.
Who smarter bought diapers - hundreds of boxes.
Rogues and gopota came to Samara from Kazakhstan and bought up cars.
Because our ruble has already collapsed, and their tenge has not yet.
There were half a million Kazakhs in Samara at that moment.
They swept away everything that was in our stores.
Still, it was 2 times cheaper for them.
It was a small digression.
And my salary, on average, was 2007 rubles in 40000 (which was "very good" at that moment), and now it remains at 40 rubles (now it is called not very bad). those. in 2007 my purchasing power was 3 times better than it is now.
If an American hired Truck Driver in 2007 drove 35 cents a mile and had a salary of $ 4000, he now drives 65 cents a mile and has $ 9000. Per month. Hired driver.
Yes, inflation ... But an American driver has the opportunity to buy a house for 400 thousand dollars in "Loan", paying 2500 a month, even for 30 years, and I cannot an apartment for 30 thousand dollars, since my monthly mortgage payments , do not give a chance to feed.

If you think that it is impossible to read in dollars, I assure you that practically everything in our country in the context of the global economy is still considered "at the dollar rate."
Technique - in dollars.
Food (fruits, vegetables) - in dollars (have you forgotten carrots for 150 rubles already?
Meat - again, the price tag climbs up, chicken fillet is already 330 rubles. Simply because all the adjustable material, half of the feed is imported.
Gasoline in 2007 cost 20 rubles.
Now under 50 ...
They had a gallon of gasoline for $ 2007 in 2.2. Now a gallon costs $ 3,2.
Those. for an American, gasoline has risen in price by 30%, and in our country by 100%.
Compare this with the income I described above.
I have a communal apartment, ha, a one-room Khrushchev apartment cost a total of 7 thousand rubles. 90 dollars. and for a German living in a 3-shke, for some reason, the figure is 280 euros. Which is practically the same in terms of meters, but only his income is 3500 euros, and mine is only 450 ...

And so in everything.

Soon, in 3-6 months, there will be a new global crisis caused by a complete stop of the construction business in China (30% of China's GDP), the collapse of all exchanges, first in China, then in the adjacency ...
Post-pandemic growth rates are going on everywhere in the world - and they will really smooth out the problem. There is a palpable shortage of everything in the world, including labor. For a truck driver in America, Britain is a real fight. A hired driver in America is given almost a dollar per mile. And this will be at least $ 14000 per month.

And what about us?
And we have, on the contrary, a fall ... Both demand and supply.
And prices rise by about 5-10 percent every month, depending on the market ...
What's real estate there?
What cars are there?


So think about what you write, how your words are actually divorced from society.

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: SovAr238A

Soon, in 3-6 months, there will be a new global crisis caused by a complete stop of the construction business in China (30% of China's GDP), the collapse of all exchanges, first in China, then in the adjacency ...

update the training manual, your admiration for the West is obvious, as well as the fact that there is a crisis ... you are a brother in the spirit of Chubais, you do not like "this country", and you and people like you are ruining our economy with treacherous policies, intending to bankrupt our factories, increase retirement age, withdraw all the money in the USA (it is obvious that all the economic evil is in betrayal in the occupying economic bloc of the government) .... This admiration for the West that you have just poured out, your like-minded people Kudrin Gref Chkbais, Silanov and Nabiulina have ... do you envy Americans? you voluntarily became their slaves? Well, think about who will live better? those who are robbed through offshore companies and the so-called sovereign funds (slave tribute) or those who receive this tribute and offshore dividends from us? but you missed the root cause of our poverty, it is in your personal admiration for the West so enormous that you have written a whole page, such as you betrayed power to Yeltsin and generally ran into slavery in a crowd, and people like you buy everything abroad because they do not like the Motherland ... and you don't want to see yourself in the mirror, but blame Putin and Chubais? Putin first gave you money and what turned out? everything that he gave immediately went into imports, it makes no sense to give money, you don’t want to give birth, but spend everything on trinkets like Africans sell the country for beads ... horror

[SovAr238A]

Quote: vladimir1155

Quote: SovAr238A

Soon, in 3-6 months, there will be a new global crisis caused by a complete stop of the construction business in China (30% of China's GDP), the collapse of all exchanges, first in China, then in the adjacency ...

update the training manual, your admiration for the West is obvious, as well as the fact that there is a crisis ... you are a brother in the spirit of Chubais, you do not like "this country", and you and people like you are ruining our economy with treacherous policies, intending to bankrupt our factories, increase retirement age, withdraw all the money in the USA (it is obvious that all the economic evil is in betrayal in the occupying economic bloc of the government) .... This admiration for the West that you have just poured out, your like-minded people Kudrin Gref Chkbais, Silanov and Nabiulina have ... do you envy Americans? you voluntarily became their slaves? Well, think about who will live better? those who are robbed through offshore companies and the so-called sovereign funds (slave tribute) or those who receive this tribute and offshore dividends from us? but you missed the root cause of our poverty, it is in your personal admiration for the West so enormous that you have written a whole page, such as you betrayed power to Yeltsin and generally ran into slavery in a crowd, and people like you buy everything abroad because they do not like the Motherland ... and you don't want to see yourself in the mirror, but blame Putin and Chubais? Putin first gave you money and what turned out? everything that he gave immediately went into imports, it makes no sense to give money, you don’t want to give birth, but spend everything on trinkets like Africans sell the country for beads ... horror

Methodical, you say?

But I'll tell you about the realities of Samara.
Which no training manual can say.
What nafig admiration for the west?
My salary when working to supply a huge region is estimated by my employer at 40 thousand rubles. And to get at least 60 thousand - I just have to double my turnover.
Working at a hard discount. Where all suppliers have been refusing supplies for the last 3 months - because all their raw materials are growing in price by 10-20% per month - and we do not accept price increases.
And we refuse to buy goods at a price higher than before.
And then I get fines for the fact that the retail is "empty".
And my arguments that this system does not allow filling the retail are not accepted.

Accordingly, the points are empty. no money, no customers, no suppliers. Booty.

The question is - what does Chubais have to do with it?
As a result of my work experience over the past 20 years, Chubais is not at all in business at all.
He's out there somewhere.
He is certainly an enemy of the country - but he is a very narrow enemy of the country, there. where 90% of employees do not know anything about him and have not come across.
But every pensioner in the country. knows. that Chubais is a terrible enemy.
I hate Chubais in the 90s.
For I know that he is the real enemy.
But the bottom line is that his role as an enemy, by the forces of certain structures, was reduced to a near-zero indicator.
He's just like a scarecrow funny now. and nothing more.

Again.
learn to be a resident of this country, Russia, and see how people live in reality.
And not to blame all the problems on Putin, Chubais or someone else ...
Think about why, for example, all Azerbaijanis who come to the Russian Federation create their own small sole proprietorships, so they go out there ...
Honestly or not.
But they do trade.
But we are not.
We are Russians - NO!
What prevents us from squeezing all Azerbaijanis out of retail outlets?
That billions of dollars of the Russian economy would not go to Azerbaijan?
And nothing.
Simply because the entire fruit-vegetable-flower business in the Russian Federation is completely controlled by the Azerbaijani diasporas.
And if there is a war with Azerbaijan - then they will have a command from Baku - "stop"
Is war with Azerbaijan possible?
Yes.
If they, like the Georgians, have gouged the base in Tskhinvali, the Azerbaijanis will gouge our base in Gyumri, there will be a war with Azerbaijan ...
Or do we not remember history?
Is the outcome of history the future?
Don't you know these terms?

[Vladimir1155]

Thank you for your frankness! I share your pain for our country, and I will try to help you, and especially help those VO readers who have not yet joined the herd of sectarians and stupid members of the aircraft carrier witness sect who refuse to think and live according to the principle "I don't care about reality" .. .. you listed the main problems that you care about (salary is 40 thousand, not 60, prices are growing, but there are no buyers, there are no buyers, there are azer everywhere), and the problem that you do not care about that is Crimea ... first, I will answer your burning questions (despite the fact that you trade but you do not seem to understand the economy, do not be offended, this does not characterize you badly, almost no one understands it at all, except me), so the reason for the rise in prices is inflation caused by the exorbitant release of money from the US FRS and the transfer of a greater burden of inflation for the US limit. with the help of the comprador governments of all countries except North Korea. Only the US Federal Reserve is allowed to print money in the world, everyone is obliged to use the dollar and its simulacra (other currencies like the euro and the ruble with the yuan are in close intimate relations with dollars through swap operations), and the Central Bank of the Russian Federation and other Central Banks issue candy wrappers instead of dollars, then there is a ruble, this is a simulacrum of currency, these are the few cents that lie in the reserves of the Central Bank of the Russian Federation and the Central Bank has no right to print a single extra wrapper, the share premium is withdrawn by those who print money, that is, by the private owners of the US Federal Reserve. However, the printed dollars do not bring a real product, that is, the prices of real products rise, because the entire amount of real products will have to be divided by more money than was before the printing of these trillions. That is, the inflationary rise in prices for everything all over the world depends on the number of trillions printed by the US Federal Reserve. accept this fact. your salary will not rise, and prices will rise. But this is not enough for the Americans, in addition to removing the inflation tax, they also want to trample all countries of the world into deep poverty and turn them into dependent banana and oil colonies, for which to destroy their industry and make them totally dependent on imports, for example, so that the ukrofascists sell only rapeseed , and the beets were bought, then they can be plunged into hunger by stopping the supply of beets or oil and gas. And the Russian Federation is obliged to destroy all machine building (which it obediently does) and totally depend on the prices for oil and gas, which are set in the United States, the circle is closed, why is oil better than bananas if you do not set prices for it?
Specifically in the Russian Federation, industry is deliberately and at the behest of the IMF is being destroyed by superhigh taxes exceeding 100 percent gross ... specifically, another continuous crisis since 1991, which you mistakenly associate at the behest of the United States and bulk with the annexation of Crimea, caused by much more prosaic actions about which you don't even know.
1 decision of the FRS to distribute less money to everyone and the departure of Bernanke who called for "throwing money from the helicopter", because the crazy printing of dollars has already ceased to lead to an increase in production. Consequently, high taxes can no longer be copied with available loans and the sale of shares.
2 tax maneuver in the Russian Federation, that is, the abolition of export duties on resources and a doubling of the severance tax, that is, by this step, we removed the tax burden from our western and eastern competitors and transferred it to the domestic producer and consumer. How much has it grown? if the budget revenues were roughly 50 percent from oil and gas, and we transferred them to the domestic consumer = producer, taking into account that half of the oil and gas resources are consumed inside the Russian Federation, then the increase in the tax burden on us increased by 25 percent as a result, so your well-being should it is logical to fall by 25 percent. and domestic prices for raw materials (which, as you write, are growing) should rise by 40 percent (and this is without taking into account the fact that now it has become more profitable to drive raw materials to the west because there are no more duties).
3 at the behest of the IMF, tax discipline is increased, tax evasion is hindered, the Federal Tax Service is angry, now all factories must be closed because no one will be able to pay more than 100 percent of gross taxes. but only Ayzerbadzhans in the market who do not pay taxes

what to do? when the respected Vladimir Vladimirovich accepted my advice, we had the so-called "fat Putin years", when they removed me (because of the massive shouts of a stupid, meaningless crowd of those who hate the clever, because their own stupidity will become visible), and then they pushed the respected Vladislav Surkov as well. it's useless, there's just no one, but I'll tell you .... 1 to solve problems in the Russian Federation, you need to stop feeding America through tribute (where did Ivan the Great trample the letter from the horde?) cancel the "budget rule" 2 you need to abolish all taxes except the tax (which should be increased) 3 to cut government spending on public administration by disbanding all inspections (and traffic police too), we will reduce corruption and make the business profitable and attract billions of foreign investment.

[Vladimir1155]

However, the deep reason for poverty in the Russian Federation is not "evil Americans with their Chubais", as everyone wants to think, and switch the arrows from themselves to Chubais ... who put Chubais to power? so they themselves have set, and you yourself support the economic course, because knowing that the votes of those who did not come will be given to Edru, you consciously do not go to the polls. You are not interested in Crimea, but you need 60 thousand a month, that is why we live like this, not only members of the totalitarian destructive sect of aircraft carriers have no logic, but also a significant part of the population who refuses and does not know how to think, why? because a stupid, meaningless crowd ready to tear to pieces anyone who is smarter or, for example, more beautiful than her, the crowd that shouted at Calvary Crucify Him, the one that does not care about their country, give them only money ... it turns into smart, logical thinking, capable though would add up their taxes and establish a cause and effect connection with their income ... which is capable of linking the political independence of their country, and the presence of a naval base in Sevastopol (and when I substantiated the annexation of Crimea, I posed the main problem of the possible loss of this naval base and explained the strategic the consequences of this loss) So military and political freedom is a function of the degree of exploitation of the country by the Americans, and your salary, young man, depends on it! So how from a stupid man in the street who worships not only an aircraft carrier, but also a whole list of his stupid idols who turn off the logic of thought, who can only minus, yell, take with his throat, call names in kindergarten, but unable to understand even his thoughts .. how to make smart and an adept specialist? for this you need to turn a wild pagan idolater with his consciousness torn to pieces into a monotheist. "Holy Russia, keep the Orthodox faith in it, you will be strengthened!"

[SovAr238A]

Quote: SovAr238A

And you cannot compare with the USSR.

Oh, how the Ismailis were bombed ...
minus is distributed ... so it was still impossible and 1 year ago

[svoroponov]

It is immediately clear that you think of defeatists, though it may be your job. Proceeding from the fact that a huge state, the USSR, was destroyed, and a very large number of enterprises of the final cycle remained (where they tried to destroy them in a short time, partners ,,) when it collapsed outside of Russia, the fact that Russia is alive is being restored and strengthened - this is a real feat of the people with the right direction of the decisions of the country's leadership.
And yet, my daughter asked me when all of us in the country will be entrepreneurs and millionaires. I told her - never, because someone has to work. Therefore, in any country there will be poorer and richer, more fortunate or capable or less. So I understand those who are less. Hence their distrust, acrimony and sometimes hatred, including for the country in which they live. Well, sometimes the opportunity, with the money of the enemy offices and their instructions, to earn a little extra money by working on forums like this.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

We will really become a pariah country

Russia cannot become an outcast COUNTRY, tk. Russia is an independent CIVILIZATION! Self-sufficient in all respects.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: BoA KAA

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

We will really become a pariah country

Russia cannot become an outcast COUNTRY, tk. Russia is an independent CIVILIZATION! Self-sufficient in all respects.

Dear Boa KAA ...
I would be very happy if everything was the way you write.
Yes, in principle, and .... it was!
Even 30 years ago - it was so!
When the majority were - Soviet people!
When people went to the BAM themselves!

I, as a sobering soul, as a regaining memory, will now write.
For I myself was born in 1971.
Raising children, communicating with them, talking about their problems, I remember what I faced. what kind of life I had at 16-18-20-22-25 years old.
And if not for communicating with children, then I would not have remembered the realities that were then in fact.
Memory forgets everything. But if you turn it around, then reality will come out.
Therefore - let's remember what came out in memory.

Over the past 30 years, 3 generations have grown.
Yes, exactly 3 generations!

The first generations - born since 1975 - are no longer "Soviet" ....
In the heyday of their perception of life - the rampant "perestroika" began.
Workshops, breweries, outbid, cooperatives, drugs ...
In her 15-20 years, she saw her parents crying, who were given Alaska jackets, tracksuits, TVs and Funai's VCR instead of a salary. and the products cost money.
And when the whole plant was paid with the same tracksuits, and this is, for example, a plant of 12 thousand people, then the value of this tracksuit when trying to turn it into real money fell by 70-80% ...
You were given a suit valued at 60 rubles of your salary, and you could sell it at most for 30 or 20 rubles. For there were 10 thousand people like you.
There were "brigades" - where there were "the most successful sports dudes!" ...
Who were at that moment real gods for the youth!
With transcendental authority.
Who then shot each other, of course, or flew to prison, or got hooked on a needle and then died from an overdose.
But, that part of society, which at that moment was "workers and peasants" - saw an outrageous cognitive dissonance from what he saw. When "divide and subtract" was a hundredfold more profitable than "add and multiply"!
Moreover, those who "divided" very often took away the business from those who knew how to work, who knew how to "add" ... Often just killing!

Do not forget about it.
I saw it myself.
It was a stage in my life from 85 to 2000 ....
It was everywhere. They shot, killed, taken away, raped.
It's just that people have a "short memory".

Moving on.
The generation of those born from 85 to 2000 ...
These have not seen the Soviet Union at all.
Most of their parents had a struggle to survive.
Due to the childhood of a child, all the hardships and hardships of parents passed by their perception ..
They had apartments simply because they were born in them, and they did not understand what it was like to live "without an apartment," in a hostel, a small-sized apartment, a small family, a communal apartment, etc.
It was at the time of their development as a person that a million "Euronews", LJ-news, entertainment portals such as YAP, Pikabu, etc. appeared. For them, these resources become the main source of information. They stop watching TV programs.
The next generation is someone who was born after the 20000s.
This is generally the generation of the Internet from the very beginning.
LCD TV sales are growing in hyper-progression, but only in order to watch movies downloaded from the Internet, network cinema, network life ... we get an absolutely neurotic creature that has lost all mind and way of life. 20-3 days are enough for him to get a withdrawal comparable to drug addiction.
And it is a reality.
The current one. tiktokerskaya.
And these guys see how some grimacing Tiktokers receive tens of millions of rubles or dollars for their "divine integrations", they will be "For Rosseyashka!" We will not shame the enemy!

Come back to real life!
See with real eyes those who are now 20-25-30 ...
Chat with them ....
And I will say frankly - what you see will be terribly disappointing!

[Essex62]

And the president congratulated on the victory and a prize of 18 greens for gamers on the gangway in japia. Play kids and be successful.
- Son, when will you get a job? Fuck off dad, don't you see I'm playing.

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Essex62

And the president congratulated on the victory and a prize of 18 greens for gamers on the gangway in japia. Play kids and be successful.
- Son, when will you get a job? Fuck off dad, don't you see I'm playing.

Do you forbid football too? God forbid he wants to make money as a football player

[Essex62]

And the football player should earn in accordance and as the society allows him. Like any entertainer. An actor, for example, an al singer. Why are they so scared? Do they give more to society than a milling machine operator, truck driver, constructor or fisherman? An ugly imbalance in the minds imposed by Western "culture", their way of life.

[Ryusei]

well, but there will not be any dull schlyuhobloggers and stars)

[Civil]

And then there are the fleets of the United States, South Korea. So, only nuclear weapons keep our partners from any provocations and inclinations.

[KCA]

However, the Yapas themselves fear not only the PRC, but also another vassal of the United States - the Republic of Kazakhstan, they are afraid that in the event of a fight with Russia, both of them will gladly tear Japan into rags, there is a reason

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: KCA

However, the Yapas themselves fear not only the PRC, but also another vassal of the United States - the Republic of Kazakhstan, they are afraid that in the event of a fight with Russia, both of them will gladly tear Japan into rags, there is a reason

by the way, good ideas in the spirit of Catherine II (they shared Poland) for us Hokkaido, and share the rest with Koreans and Chinese and forever bury Japanese militarism aka German fascism

[Non-fighter]

I join the respondents: can you imagine the foreign policy consequences of the use of nuclear weapons against a country that is proud of its non-nuclear status and has already survived nuclear bombings? According to my estimates - total isolation and embargo, of the allies only Belarus will remain because she has nowhere to go :(

[Victor Leningradets]

Someone isolates whom:
If we “drown even a sliver” that floats to our “partners”, we will collapse to our knees.
It was not for nothing that separate negotiations were held between Great Britain and Germany at the end of 1916. And only the entry into WWI of the USA saved the islanders.

[Bolt cutter]

foreign policy consequences of the use of nuclear weapons

The foreign policy consequences of the refusal to use nuclear weapons in an attack will be a disaster - if everyone sees that all the nuclear weapons are "for near-sir" and the generals do not have enough yayeks to press the button, then very quickly Tuvalu will try to speak with Russia from a position of strength and demand something.

[Nastia makarova]

but nothing that Japan will start the first war? will bomb our cities? kill people?

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Not the fighter

According to my estimates - total isolation and embargo

friendship is friendship, and tobacco is apart, a war is coming in the Middle East and where oil will be taken and gas ... that's the same ... oil is more important for them than Japan

[TermNachTer]

The Chinese are also not fools, they understand perfectly well that they will devour Russia, they are next. Therefore, they will not calmly observe. The Chinese and South Korea also have "graters" with Japan because of the islands. And there, China can remember that Okinawa, too, once was part of the Chinese Empire.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: TermNachTER

The Chinese and South Korea also have "graters" with Japan because of the islands.

And not only. The Chinese treat the Japanese as fiercely as the Belarusians treat the punishers who burn their villages together with women, children and the elderly. The Japanese massacred 34 (according to other sources 37) million Chinese in the period 1937-45. Koreans, by the way, also got sickly from the samurai.

[TermNachTer]

The Chinese have something to hate samurai for, but the Nanjing Massacre alone is worth something. And if, even theoretically, "estimate" how many Chinese died at the hands of the Japanese, from the Taiwan expedition to 1945, then there is nothing to be surprised at. As for trade, as I wrote above, one of the commentators. So the USA (France, England, USSR) traded with Germany (Italy) and Japan, and then they were cut to death. So trading is a very relative indicator.

[Vol4ara]

Quote: BoA KAA

Quote: TermNachTER

The Chinese and South Korea also have "graters" with Japan because of the islands.

And not only. The Chinese treat the Japanese as fiercely as the Belarusians treat the punishers who burn their villages together with women, children and the elderly. The Japanese massacred 34 (according to other sources 37) million Chinese in the period 1937-45. Koreans, by the way, also got sickly from the samurai.

And why do you not like Germans much? I now treat the Germans better than the other peoples of Europe. And the Belarusians are the same, and those punishers whom they hated are already in the grave. And the Chinese have everything the same

[vindigo]

No. No. Asia has a different mentality. Even the new generation remembers everything. Communicated with Chinese and Koreans. They say: "Some things must not be forgotten."

[Vladimir_2U]

In particular, the President of Russia on October 22, 2020 in Novo-Ogarevo said that he fully admits the conclusion of a military alliance between the two countries, although "in general" they do not need it. To which the Chinese side immediately reacted "very warmly."

More news is fresher.

[ultra]

Why fit in for us?

[TermNachTer]

And then, if Russia is devoured, then China is next. Likewise, on the contrary, China will be devoured, Russia is next. Only the fact that they are not yet together, but somewhere nearby, brazenly keeps the Saxons from taking decisive steps.

[Yarhann]

Aviation and OTRK will have enough eyes to drive Japan into the Stone Age. Enough to direct the horror.
China will quietly urge its fleet on precisely in order to train anti-aircraft missile defense. And figs who will tell China anything when he drank everything that the Japs have under water, and the training will be good. What remains under water remains under water. Remember how Kursk died - there are many myths and tales - this is how the entire submarine fleet of Japan will be cut out - without noise and dust - it will simply disappear and that's it.

[soul]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

But where is the author of the cases, possibly the most powerful fleet of the PRC?

China is a locust. And they think only of themselves, they don't give a damn about us. In my opinion, the threat from China is greater than from Japan, although somewhat distant

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: alma

In my opinion, the threat from China is greater than from Japan, although somewhat distant

Perhaps, but the author is blissful about the Japanese threat!

[Victor Leningradets]

If we oversleep the Japanese one, we will no longer be afraid of China. It will be AFTER US.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Victor Leningradets

If we oversleep the Japanese one, we will no longer be afraid of China. It will be AFTER US.

Do you really seriously believe that Japan is capable of doing away with a nuclear superpower, which has more nuclear weapons than the United States and Great Britain combined, easily, without prejudice to itself and its main ally (the United States)?
Well, you fucking dreamer!

[Vol4ara]

Quote: BoA KAA

Quote: Victor Leningradets

If we oversleep the Japanese one, we will no longer be afraid of China. It will be AFTER US.

Do you really seriously believe that Japan is capable of doing away with a nuclear superpower, which has more nuclear weapons than the United States and Great Britain combined, easily, without prejudice to itself and its main ally (the United States)?
Well, you fucking dreamer!

Do you think that someone will allow Japan to lose to Russia? Someone would let her attack at the wrong time?

[bayard]

The Japanese threat is closer.
Much closer than you think.
So if something happens, it will happen in the next two years.

[TermNachTer]

There are no permanent friends (allies), there are permanent interests. At this stage, Russia and China are situational allies. What will happen next, only the Lord God knows.

[Thrifty]

Vladimir 2W-what are the Chinese to us, what are we to China? They "showed themselves" when the US destroyer invaded our terrorists. As you remember, we, it seems, conducted joint exercises with the Chinese. So, the Chinese warships simply "stepped aside" so as not to interfere with the provocation of the USA! Maxim is right, we have the fleet for a "tick", we are eating up the Soviet reserve, but the country has no new, high-quality, breakthrough! war, our pseudo fleet will quickly be overheated even by the same Japanese !!!

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Thrifty

Vladimir 2W-what are the Chinese to us, what are we to China? They "showed themselves" when the US destroyer invaded our terrorists.

And that China and Japan were not asked such a question?

[Thrifty]

Vladimir 2u-China is Japan's trading partner in modern conditions! Licenses! Please take off your rose-colored glasses! The Chinese will attack a lot earlier, when they suck up everything they can reach for nothing!

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Thrifty

China Japan is a trading partner in modern conditions!

And who is he in Russia?

Quote: Thrifty

Please take off your rose-colored glasses!

Stop scaring yourself. Once again, the author writes about the Japanese threat. China is a deterrent for Japan, not Russia.

[TermNachTer]

At one time, the USA (England, France) were trade partners of Germany, Italy and Japan. The USSR traded with both. A little later, this did not stop them from organizing the Second World War)))

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: TermNachTER

At one time, the USA (England, France) were trade partners of Germany, Italy and Japan. The USSR traded with both. A little later, this did not stop them from organizing the Second World War)))

Is this my answer? Not quite at the address:

Quote: Thrifty

Japan in modern conditions is a trading partner! All of the threat from the category of "remember-revenge" is smashed by gigantic financial profits from trade, including Japanese goods sold by the Chinese around the world, and created in China under Japanese technologies and licenses!

[TermNachTer]

It was a thought out loud in general, and not specifically addressed to you. Sorry if offended.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: TermNachTER

It was a thought out loud in general, and not specifically addressed to you. Sorry if offended.

Yes, what are you talking about, absolutely correct comment, just as an answer to mine came, so I reacted.

[Doccor18]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Okay, the capabilities of the Navy, the Aerospace Forces and the Russian Army, we will assume that Japan, this is after Syria, and the drain of the United States in Afghanistan, they are not afraid.

Aerospace Forces operated in Syria from the nearest airfields. With whom will they work to ensure air supremacy over the Kuril ridge? Far away, at the limit of the radius ... And those on the islands will be destroyed in the first hours of the operation.
What does sunny Afghanistan have to do with it? And who has a headache now because of this territory?

Quote: Vladimir_2U

But where is the author of the cases, possibly the most powerful fleet of the PRC?

Do you seriously think that the Chinese AUG, led by Shandong, will go to the defense of Shikotan? Or will the Chinese Navy take advantage of the favorable situation to squeeze out the Diaoyu / Senkaku fragments? They will not squeeze out, because they have Taiwan, a wave of economic turmoil and the United States on the agenda.

Quote: Vladimir_2U

The author is overdoing it, and to put it mildly.

The author smoothes it, to put it mildly. And if roughly, then against 23 submarines of Japan, a large surface fleet and aviation, a powerful anti-submarine, and the Air Force (which are "close by", and not somewhere on the mainland) we can only oppose the Strategic Missile Forces. And the only questions are: how long will they be afraid? How realistic is it that threats will go beyond "threats" ..?

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Doccor18

Aerospace Forces operated in Syria from the nearest airfields.

And it's all? Little, little crime! It was necessary to launch missiles from strategic bombers, surface ships and submarines at the barmaley, but from a couple of thousand kilometers! Oh, wait a minute, that's how they did it, and it turned out to be a very painful click on the nose of some "partners". And the Japanese certainly appreciated the prospects.

Quote: Doccor18

What does sunny Afghanistan have to do with it? And who has a headache now because of this territory?

Despite the fact that the main Japanese support is the United States, they did it in Afghanistan, they lost their face, so to speak, as an ally.

Quote: Doccor18

Do you seriously think that the Chinese AUG, led by Shandong, will go to the defense of Shikotan? Or will the Chinese Navy take advantage of the favorable situation to squeeze out the Diaoyu / Senkaku fragments?

Do you seriously think that Russia and China, in principle, cannot sign an agreement on mutual assistance in the event of aggression?

Oh yes, do you seriously think, as an author, that Japanese aggression is inevitable in two years?

[Doccor18]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

And the Japanese certainly appreciated the prospects.

Of course they appreciated and made conclusions. And they are preparing for something ...
1. Powerful propaganda among the population.
2. The upcoming revision of the defense doctrine announced by the new prime minister.
3. There is a long confrontation with the PRC, so Japan is more needed and important for the hegemon than ever, which means that the United States will support the samurai in 99,99% of cases, if anything ... This is not Afghanistan.
4. Re-equipment of "destroyer-helicopter carriers" Izumo and Kaga under the F35B (and an order for 42 vehicles). They will be ready by the age of 24-25.
5. A series of modern submarines, the best in their class.
6. A series of Type 30 frigates, which will have (127-mm cannon, as opposed to 57-mm on future US frigates), a characteristic set of PLO and electronic warfare, a new power plant (and speed over 30 knots), 8 anti-ship missiles ... and weak air defense (because enemy aircraft are not too afraid ...).
What does it all mean?

Quote: Vladimir_2U

lost face so to speak

Maybe ... But as long as this person is supported by the dollar and the Pentagon, there is no need to worry too much about it.

Quote: Vladimir_2U

do you seriously think that Russia and China, in principle, cannot sign an agreement on mutual assistance in case of aggression?

In the event of a serious aggression against Russia or China? I completely admit it. But China will return the "rebellious island", and not vice versa ... And will Xi risk everything because of the "problem of the northern territories", which is never a problem for China ???

Quote: Vladimir_2U

yes, do you seriously think, as an author, that Japanese aggression is inevitable in two years?

Not yet. Until they are ready, they will press diplomatically, and then, in 5-7 years, who knows ...
Therefore, it is not necessary to throw up caps, but to seriously strengthen the eastern borders, time passes ... And the author of the article shouts the same thing.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Doccor18

There will be a long confrontation with the PRC, so Japan is needed and important for the hegemon as never before, which means that the United States will support the samurai in 99,99% of cases, if anything ... This is not Afghanistan.

In principle, this is sufficient. Everything that you wrote in the commentary is directed against China. And the United States will not indulge Japan about the islands. Because the Japanese can and will succeed in squeezing the islands, which is very unlikely, but only Russia in this case will support China in everything, including Taiwan. Which is not there now.

[Doccor18]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

In this case, Russia will support China in everything, including Taiwan. Which is not there now.

On Russian maps, the island of Taiwan is the same color as mainland China, which cannot be said, for example, about many other political maps in the world, for example Australia or Chile ...

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Doccor18

Quote: Vladimir_2U

In this case, Russia will support China in everything, including Taiwan. Which is not there now.

On Russian maps, the island of Taiwan is the same color as mainland China, which cannot be said, for example, about many other political maps in the world, for example Australia or Chile ...

Although Taiwan has never been part of the PRC ...

[Boa kaa]

This is your "enlightened" opinion. And here are the facts:

In 1683, the Manchu army of the Qing dynasty landed in Taiwan; Island was incorporated into the Chinese province of Fujian.
In 1875, Taipei became the capital of northern Taiwan. In 1886 Taiwan was singled out as a separate province of China. The defeat in the war with the Japanese forced the Qing government to cede Taiwan to Japan in 1895. Chinese patriots attempted to form an independent state "Taiwan Republic" in Taiwan, but this attempt was quickly suppressed by the Japanese.
From 1895 to 1945, the island was part of the Japanese Empire. After the defeat of Japan in World War II, the island became part of the Republic of China.
In 1949, after being defeated in the civil war by the troops of Mao Zedong, the head of the government of the Republic of China, Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek, took refuge in Taiwan.
Martial law in Taiwan returned to China after Japan's defeat in World War II, it was introduced on May 19, 1949 ...

So, given that even the UN has agreed with the thesis "one country - two systems" Taiwan is recognized as part of the PRC by the mn community. It remains to "unite" it peacefully with the mainland of the country.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: BoA KAA

This is your "enlightened" opinion. And here are the facts:

In 1683, the Manchu army of the Qing dynasty landed in Taiwan; Island was incorporated into the Chinese province of Fujian.
In 1875, Taipei became the capital of northern Taiwan. In 1886 Taiwan was singled out as a separate province of China. The defeat in the war with the Japanese forced the Qing government to cede Taiwan to Japan in 1895. Chinese patriots attempted to form an independent state "Taiwan Republic" in Taiwan, but this attempt was quickly suppressed by the Japanese.
From 1895 to 1945, the island was part of the Japanese Empire. After the defeat of Japan in World War II, the island became part of the Republic of China.
In 1949, after being defeated in the civil war by the troops of Mao Zedong, the head of the government of the Republic of China, Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek, took refuge in Taiwan.
Martial law in Taiwan returned to China after Japan's defeat in World War II, it was introduced on May 19, 1949 ...

So, given that even the UN has agreed with the thesis "one country - two systems" Taiwan is recognized as part of the PRC by the mn community. It remains to "unite" it peacefully with the mainland of the country.

You have confirmed again that Taiwan has never been part of the PRC!
It was part of the Qin Empire, but it was never part of the PRC!
The words that "In 1886 Taiwan [b] was made a separate province of China." Is a lie!
He was part of the Qin Empire. But not China.
During the Qin Empire, a country like China did not exist in principle.
In Taiwan, the Japanese role in Taiwan has been much stronger since 1895.
When the Japanese defeated the Qin Empire (not China), learn to read what they write.
The Qin Empire is not equal to China !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The story is a little deeper than what is written in Wikipedia.
Taiwan gained independence from Japan under the American protectorate only in 1945 ...
He is never part of the People's Republic of China!
Never.
Learn the real story.

Moreover, if you study real history, then you will know that until a certain point (until 1979 (it was Taiwan that was recognized by the UN as China, but not the mainland China ...
I will repeat again - learn the fucking history!
She gives so many interesting things - and dethrones such dummies in their heads!

I did not expect from you such "to put it mildly" unprepared opus ...
Please prepare in advance - when you see my posts.
They appear on the site for a reason.
Especially concerning geopolitics.
They are not sudden or accidental and carry a real factor behind them.
Which you may not know.

Therefore, study the materiel.

[Andybuts]

Therefore, it is not necessary to throw up caps, but to seriously strengthen the eastern borders, time passes ... And the author of the article shouts the same thing.

And who should strengthen them? Does our government really care about the Far East? Look at the dynamics of the population of the Far East and get an answer whether the eastern borders will be strengthened.

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: andybuts

And who should strengthen them? Does our government really care about the Far East? Look at the dynamics of the population of the Far East and get an answer whether the eastern borders will be strengthened.

that is, the authorities themselves must give birth? and Putin as a prehistoric king to make every woman happy with a child five times? it is not Putin who drives our women to abortions (3 million abortions a year), but men who do not want children, who live according to the principle "I want it so", but he wants vodka, bread of spectacles and spice, he does not care about the Crimea and the Far East too .. on the contrary Putin accepted my idea of ​​supporting large families and consistently supports, but the people still do not want to give birth, even if they give money, they watch TV shows and live in Santa Barbara

[Andybuts]

it is not Putin who drives our women to abortions (3 million abortions a year), but men who do not want children, who live according to the principle "I want it so", but he wants vodka, bread of spectacles and spice, he does not care about the Crimea and the Far East too ..

and someone is promoting a lifestyle that is different from selfishness? do we have normal sex education in our schools so that teenagers do not become pregnant on such a scale? I would say that a lot on TV, on the Internet, hints that everyone should be selfish. a, and also the church and "patriots" with their spirituality, bonds and a return to the origins, the house building and Russia, which we have lost. Which are already sick

Putin accepted my idea of ​​supporting large families and consistently supports, but the people still do not want to give birth

what are the measures to support large families in the country? is it not maternity capital that is meant? And what does having many children have to do with it? in cities, it is not needed, you need a confident average of 2,1 children per woman. The authorities must create conditions for increasing the birth rate, first of all, people must have confidence in the future (from the word day), and not even in one day, in the next couple of decades. The overwhelming majority of the population has confidence only in the future from the word bottom. There are statistics on natural population growth / decline, birth rates, which clearly speaks of the demographic policy of the state. We are one of the leaders there in terms of stable population decline for 30 years. One can, of course, say that the authorities were unlucky, that they were caught stupid. But usually this means that just such an economic situation in the country, such attention is paid to the problems of demography. Look at the draft budget for the next years and see what the authorities have in priority. There is nothing about human capital, about the availability or development of medicine and education, about economic growth, or about the development of technology. Well, the population will respond to this by reducing it. And the Far East will continue to leave for the European part of the country, as before. I myself have moved from the Far East, because there is less and less normal work.

[Botanologist]

Quote: andybuts

what are the measures in the country to support large families? is it not maternity capital that is meant? And what does having many children have to do with it? in cities, it is not needed, you need a confident average of 2,1 children per woman. The authorities must create conditions for increasing the birth rate, first of all, people must have confidence in the future (from the word day),

That is, maternity capital is not support for maternity? You have disconnected something from reality.

[Andybuts]

That is, maternity capital is not support for maternity? You have disconnected something from reality.

certainly not support. So a one-time allowance, moreover, it can be used only for certain purposes, if you do not come up with some schemes. If you divide 483-something thousand by three years of the decree, you get about 13,5 thousand per month, which is almost always incomparable with the drop in income of a woman in the family. Considering that even officially more than 12% of our population live below the poverty line, and another 50-60% live a little better, this is a drop in the ocean. Look at the prices for baby food, clothes, toys, the cost of clubs and sections. For the majority of the population, raising a child is a real challenge, sometimes overwhelming.

[Botanologist]

Quote: andybuts

For the majority of the population, raising a child is a real challenge, sometimes overwhelming.

Well, you don't need to tell me this, the father of three children who were born in 88-91. This is your unwillingness to have children, and you are trying to justify your spinelessness by translating the arrows.

[Andybuts]

why didn't you have children after 1991? in those years the birth rate was still normal, but we also lived in another country.
and no need about me, the whole country does not give birth - see the figures from the statistics!

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: andybuts

and someone is promoting a lifestyle that is different from selfishness? we have normal sex education in schools,

you have a mess in your head, are you outraged by debauchery on TV, and at the same time urge you to learn to have sex before marriage and have abortions?

[Andybuts]

statistics show that in countries with a normal solution to this issue, the average age at first sexual intercourse is higher than in Russia, and the number of abortions among minors is noticeably lower. So the mess is in your head, not mine

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: andybuts

also the church and "patriots" with their spirituality, bonds and a return to the origins, house building and Russia, which we have lost. Which are already sick

be sick? this is where your inability to realize the objective reality, except for the fact that somewhere more is paid, at such times they drive women to abortion, because the concept of righteousness, serving a neighbor's father's duty, is far from you, yes! children do not bring monetary income = it means an abortion, and if they do (through mat capital), then it is still too lazy to mess with children, money can be earned easier

[Andybuts]

Write nonsense! I'm talking about the fact that there should be a normal middle class, people should generally live normally, not survive! Then the mother capital will not be needed to give birth and raise a child. The average family itself will be able to support and raise a child. Only for this, the structure of the economy should be multi-structured, and not raw materials, the legal system should be developed. Not like now in Russia. The same abortions are not done because of a good life. And they leave the Far East not from a well-fed life for new achievements, but on the contrary, because they want to live better. And they leave Russia for the West for the same reasons.
And you are trying to accuse people that they themselves do not give birth, and the state like this is not in business.

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: andybuts

normal middle class, people should generally live normally, not survive! Then the mother capital will not be needed to give birth and raise a child. The average family itself will be able to support and raise a child.

are you writing to me to a father with many children? go outside and count the foreign cars, each will cost you more money than a child .. and where did you read the lamentations about the middle class ... did my village ancestors who gave birth to 7-10 children had foreign cars and warm apartments? who wants children to give birth, and who wants their comfort does not give birth, but to divert their eyes, laments about the middle class

[Andybuts]

What does your personal experience or foreign cars have to do with it? You have your own personal situation, your own personal experience and worldview. What do foreign cars have to do with demography? In general, Russia is dying out, this is a fact. And it has been dying out since 1992. No single large families change the situation. Until there is a suitable economic situation, then there will be no shift in demography, even in the distant future. You offer families to give birth, thinking about the future of the country, although you need to give birth, thinking about the future of the children and your family. Normally three children cannot be accommodated in one-two-room apartments.

did my village ancestors who gave birth to 7-10 children have foreign cars and warm apartments?

no need to drag your ancestors here. My grandparents had 6 and 10 children. There were completely different conditions of life than now, and there were reasons for such a birth rate. And education was worse, and religious prejudices, and they lived in the village. And they didn't think about the country when they gave birth, believe me.

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: andybuts

Russia is dying out, that's a fact. And has been dying out since 1992

but I understood I did not pay attention to your flag, not from 1992 but from 1917, only Stalin slowed down the extinction a little, and so he almost continuous extinction of Russian fathers who abandoned the faith, compensated for in Soviet times by religious "fanatics" (in your terminology) from Uzbekistan and Tajikistan .... so you yourself answered your question if we do not return to "religious prejudices" in your terminology, but in truth to an adequate understanding of reality and life values, including children as an important "religious prejudice" .... so the Russian Federation has only two ways or "religious prejudices" or death from extinction, abortions of drugs, vodka and other non-religious values. like an aircraft carrier

Quote: andybuts

... My grandparents had 6 and 10 children. There were completely different conditions of life than they are now, and there were reasons for such a birth rate. And education was worse, and religious prejudices, and they lived in the village.

[Andybuts]

but understood did not pay attention to your flag

Excuse me, I don’t suffer for Russia, which you lost, and I’m not ready to repent for the murder of citizen Romanov.

from 1992 and from 1917, only Stalin slowed down the extinction a little, and so he is the almost continuous extinction of the Russian abandoned fathers

In Soviet times, almost all the time there was a natural increase in the population in the RSFSR, for example, since 1946 there has never been an excess of the birth rate over the death rate. This is without the union republics, without any faith, but with unprecedented social guarantees for the population (free medicine, free education, free housing, guaranteed employment).

the Russian Federation has only two ways or "religious prejudices" or death from extinction, abortions of drugs, vodka and other non-religious values. like an aircraft carrier

I am more worried that nowadays there are fewer schools in the country than temples and churches, and this is just a big sign of the country's extinction. And abortions, drugs and vodka will exist in both religious and atheistic societies, but their number will depend on the actions of the authorities, primarily in the field of preventing these phenomena. And the educated enlightened population with a normal standard of living has a greater margin of safety against these misfortunes.

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: andybuts

educated enlightened population with a normal standard of living

this is your education similar to what the heroine of the movie "after two hares" received (read more "the morals of the lost street") and all your logic from the major golokhvastov from the same movie, your normal standard of living, due to the killing of babies, if they are not there, then there are no worries, and we spend the freed money on a car or a new fashionable jacket, and this applies to all "normal" countries that have abandoned "religious prejudices" and are dying out and living as migrants

[Andybuts]

let it be so for you

[Botanologist]

Quote: andybuts

Until there is a suitable economic situation, then there will be no shift in demography, even in the distant future.

Actually, the history of civilizations testifies to the opposite.

[Wertgan]

Yes, this is nonsense. The reality is that the well-to-do Europe also has few births. The reason is immorality. In the loss of a religious worldview. Therefore, we do not give birth

[Essex62]

Selfishness and exaggerated desire for comfort. Religion and religiosity, absolutely, have nothing to do with it. NTP gave a person huge opportunities to hammer a bolt on the hard earning of daily bread and having many children, the basis of the ability to collectively carry out this process has completely dropped out of consciousness. The instinct of procreation is still working, but consciousness is already successfully extinguishing it.

[Andybuts]

Why don't we like to look at numbers! In Europe, wealthy people give birth more, with the exception of a few countries.

The reason is immorality. In the loss of a religious worldview.

how does this affect fertility?

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Doccor18

and weak air defense (because enemy aircraft are not too afraid ...). What does it all mean?

IDIOCY! For underestimating our RCC is the height of imprudence. Let me remind fans - anti-ship missiles are carried not only by aircraft, but also by submarines. Therefore, the Japans are clearly getting excited about this issue ...

Quote: Doccor18

: But as long as this person is supported by the dollar and the Pentagon,

So this is so far ... But the hour is not equal and the dollar will roll ... and then the line of the five-wall man will ripen, because without the drawn dead presidents they will not last long: they have a rearmament program for 1,5 trillion greens!

[blackberry]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

do you seriously think that Russia and China, in principle, cannot sign an agreement on mutual assistance in case of aggression?

Let me express my opinion: Russia can sign with China, but China and Russia can balk.

[Dimon Krasnodar]

Everything will be simple.
A massive missile strike by strategists on the infrastructure of Japan, which they are unable to repel.
A blow to the world's largest oil depots and refineries will force Japan to peace. No fleet will help them, the fate of Japan is not enviable.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Doccor18

we can only oppose the Strategic Missile Forces.

And that, among other things, will be enough! We have not yet populated Siberia, but where can the Japans go when the islands slide into the Mariana Trench? You think the Japanese haven't watched the movie END JAPAN? I suppose they remember it very well and wake up at night in a cold sweat, imagining that something like this could happen in reality ...
AHA.

[TermNachTer]

The answer to your question is extremely simple. They will be afraid as long as there are Strategic Missile Forces and no further talks will go.

[Doccor18]

Quote: TermNachTER

be afraid as long as the Strategic Missile Forces continue ...

It is not enough just to have the Strategic Missile Forces, you still need to have firm confidence in their application ... And the order will not be given by a colonel or general, and not even the commander of the Strategic Missile Forces, but politicians ...

[TermNachTer]

Nuclear weapons "put pressure on the brain" of the alleged enemy, by the very fact of their presence. It is no coincidence that since its inception, there have been no more world wars, precisely because politicians fear that the enemy will use it. And the fact that Uncle Vova follows the principle of Miyamoto Musashi: "The best victory is to win without fighting," does not mean that he is a "weakling".

[ramzay21]

But where is the author of the cases, possibly the most powerful fleet of the PRC? The situation is close neither in 1903 nor even in 1899 wink. The author is overdoing it, and to put it mildly.

Indeed, the most powerful fleet of the PRC will defend the interests of the PRC, and their interests are not at all in defending the Russian Federation, but in order to snatch a piece for themselves.
In reality, the situation can be very sad for our country. Today Japan can easily seize our islands, it will be a local conflict and our cowardly leadership will not dare to use nuclear weapons, there are no other means against Japan. If this happens, then an internal crisis may begin, and the majority will finally realize that the current leadership has made Russia weak in everything, and not just in the economy. Such a crisis is inevitable, and China, which has established close ties with our local elites, can take advantage of the situation and make efforts to the parade of sovereignty of Russian regions. Independent Yakutia and Chukotka can become a reality, and such an alignment is much more profitable for China, because it will not be a nuclear power, but controlled countries with a puppet government under the protection of the Chinese army.
In 1988, no one in the most sick imagination could have imagined that in some 3 years the USSR would collapse, and this happened, however, no lessons were learned from this, and the locusts that are now in power can only eat, they have nothing to think about.

[Ryusei]

And he does not nearly overdo it, behind Japan there is a much more powerful TF USA ...

[Grandfather]

all Max Klimov ... you kapets ... right now the patriots will devour you .... begiii!

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Dead Day

all Max Klimov ... you kapets ... right now the patriots will devour you .... begiii!

you forgot to put the quotes! I am a patriot, and all the more often I argued with Klimov on a number of issues, but I respect him for this article ... and "patriots" = members of a totalitarian destructive sect witness an aircraft carrier ... let's see if they start eating Klimov? if it were not for the disgusting cut of the dough into unnecessary Kuzya and UDC, then we would have torpedoes and devices with the latest technology, and there would be many good minesweepers

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: vladimir1155

and "patriots" = members of a totalitarian destructive sect witnessing an aircraft carrier ... let's see if they start eating Klimov? if it were not for the disgusting cut of the dough into unnecessary Kuzya and UDC, then we would have torpedoes and devices with the latest technology, and there would be many good minesweepers

"Volodya" how you pulled everyone up with aircraft carriers and UDC, your trolling from dementia, because for you - no torpedoes - Kuzya is guilty, no minesweepers - Kuzya is guilty, there is no water at home - Kuzya is guilty, winter came earlier - Kuzya is guilty, complain about you and your nonsense or what ??

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Tiksi-3

no torpedoes - Kuzya is guilty, no minesweepers - Kuzya is guilty, there is no water at home - Kuzya is guilty,

well, in winter you turned Kuzya towards winter, not only that the winter is long and he becomes incapable of combat in cold weather (although usually he is not combat-ready even without winter) ... you have no logic, and torpedoes and minesweepers and there is no water in the tap because there is no money for this, and all the money was eaten by Kuzya ... so here's a young man! learn to think logically, and not only swear and fight like in kindergarten, and repeat like Timokhin's ass ...

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: vladimir1155

learn to think logically

and this is told to me by a person who did not have and has no relation to the Russian Navy, and his whole logic is that only Kuznetsov is guilty of all the troubles that surround us

Quote: vladimir1155

and not just swear and fight like in kindergarten

you judge by yourself, sir, by yourself and by your posts you clearly confirm this

Quote: vladimir1155

and it becomes incapacitated in cold weather

well, yes, yes ... in warm it boils, in cold it is covered with ice. and all our nuclear submarines are on duty under the pack ice of the Arctic

[Tiksi-3]

and again everything is by, since the materiel is below the waterline

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Tiksi-3

materiel below the waterline

yes, when the materiel is much lower than the waterline, 100-200 meters, then the ice is not terrible for it, but you did not know

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: vladimir1155

meters per 100-200

Well, how do you enlighten how Borey will shoot ammunition from under the ice ???

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Tiksi-3

how can you enlighten

thank you for realizing that I was right and asking a clarifying question, young man, it means that not everything is lost and you are able to learn from your elders and that means that by my age you may be as smart as me , here's a link for you https://www.mk.ru/politics/2020/08/21/amerikancev-ispugalo-umenie-russkikh-podvodnikov-zapuskat-yadernye-rakety-izpodo-lda.html

[Tiksi-3]

"Uncle" what kind of creature are you? you are clearly told Boreas, not sharks - which are NOT! and Not Squids, which are all under the write-off .... breaking the ice with a torpedo is immediately the location of the striped ones and right there Orion will send a gift, how long does it take to blow up the wormwood and then enter it with a body ???? + preparation for the start and the start itself? ... our submarine was recorded on death row ?? ... well, yes, yes, the link to the MK is cooler than Skobeeva said ..... do not disgrace the troll ...

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Tiksi-3

break the ice with a torpedo -

Are you offended that I'm right, you got into a pose offended by the fact that you are not the smartest? learn from mistakes, otherwise you will not achieve anything ...

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: vladimir1155

you are offended that i'm right

you are so into the milk that trying to conduct a dialogue with you becomes more and more interesting, you rarely meet such stubborn and empty ... a troll, and at the same time does not blush ...

[Tiksi-3]

you are just jealous that you don’t know the specifics of the fleet, but you really want to be respected in the comments like Timokhin, Klimov or Kaptsov, but alas, your only missed trolling and that's all ..... you need to tighten up the materiel by 90% and not read yellow press ...

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Tiksi-3

you are just jealous

well, the samovar boiled, as much as two posts, how I pissed you on once or twice ..... you don't know aka apl will shoot in the north ... it turns out the whole gsh laughs at you ... what do you know about the fleet besides your cockpit ?

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: vladimir1155

how I got you on a couple of times.

but how can you bother me if you write stupid nonsense? while it is also satisfied?

Quote: vladimir1155

you do not know aka will shoot the apl in the north turns out.

I just know, that's why I'm laughing at you .... a loser))

Quote: vladimir1155

what do you know about the fleet besides your cockpit?

you don't even know that .... GSh))) ... oh right now, I'll burst with laughter ... let's burn the distance ... you can't even be called a crucian carp, you have to deserve it - but you can't ...

[Sandor Clegane]

Quote: Tiksi-3

you don't even know that .... GSh)))

this troll either serves in the General Staff, then personally gave advice to Putin, then he is a world-class financier - one word - Romanian !!

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Sandor Clegane

one word - Romanian !!

yes he is toll, 100%

[antivirus]

The very fact of filming and publishing a video from the torpedo deck of a submarine of the Navy's combat personnel is perplexing, in view of the specificity and importance of such information

- I consider the author to be a counterintelligence officer - clearly openly about failures, these are plums to obfuscate traces ...

and showed mock-ups, behind the scenes truth, secrets, "which have no analogues in the world"

a good fleet, perhaps we will build only after 2040-50 - to correct the demography and only then ... soup with a cat

[Grandfather]

Quote: antivirus

a good fleet, perhaps we will build only after 2040-50 - to correct the demography and only then ... soup with a cat

so far we are only actively building cemeteries.

[antivirus]

what we are talking about - only extraordinary internal problems - everything else - behind the horizon of planning and dreams

........................... the advanced fleet will be after solving the problem of the meaning of life in Russia and the Russians and determining the export of that meaning, expansion. ...
............. everything beyond the territory of our land is someone else's ... money for the protection-capture of that, someone else's, the Kremlin does not spend, it's not about me.
and take out the supporters for me and put here and now all that I hotstsa - they minus - to distant garrisons - to serve without serving

[Roman_vh]

What is your contribution to solving the demographic problem
Yes, in principle, I personally believe that humanity absolutely does not deserve the right to exist. It is doomed, and the sooner everything is over, the better for the Earth. Maybe the new bacteria will create something better. However, I doubt it. Of course, it is insulting, and it is a pity for the children, but when you think about what this population is heading for, you don't even know which is better, poke around further or have it all over at once.

[FRoman1984]

Due to the impossibility of creating a VNEU, the Fleet (or the Fleet) is ordered junk, which in reality cannot do anything. Okay, the engine could not be made, but why are torpedoes half a century old?

[Grandfather]

Quote: FRoman1984

but why are torpedoes half a century old?

duck in Dagestan do "super torpedoes" seem to be doing? https: //vpk.name/news/118849_dagdizel_nachnet_seriinoe_proizvodstvo_novyh_torped.html

[I am not a robot]

why did you decide that vneu give significant advantages, the Japanese, for example, refused
the Americans could not vneu (they only have atomic ones)

[Bashkirkhan]

Reading the publication about the state of the Pacific Fleet's sub-glacier, I recall the bright image of the American admiral from the film

[Sawfly]

exactly. I would also add

[Bashkirkhan]

also with the original translation about birds

[Per se.]

For "new boats", then the commanders are needed with a tattoo on ... well, as in the film ...

[Rurikovich]

The author is once again a plus!
Talking about problems does not mean not being a patriot. Vice versa! Only a patriot can speak openly about problems in order to solve them and make the state adequate and strong

[Titus_2]

So everything is really very professional and clearly written. Such authors on VO. in the afternoon with fire ...

[I am not a robot]

but to determine from the photo of the sailors that they are suicide bombers is to throw hats at us

[Rurikovich]

Sometimes in the media you can find information about the state of something in the country, analyze and draw conclusions

[Lepsik]

If you do not read all this paid for politicized guano, the only question remains - will the American AUG withstand a volley of 12 squalls from a nuclear warhead?

Most likely, all these American troughs will quickly and without torment sink to the bottom. For there is nothing to fight back with since the 70s.

[timokhin-aa]

This was not an article for the people of Destad, sorry.

[dzvero]

Photos from TV filming. The probable partner does not have "db" (s) (S. Lavrov) work - they understand everything without prompts.
As for the composition of the ammunition - possibly misinformation; it is unlikely that the film crew was allowed on the boat without first "combing" everything and everyone. Perhaps they showed what they wanted.
About the characteristics of torpedoes and tactics - I do not believe that the partners were waiting for Klimov / Timokhin's articles on VO

[ban]

Is it okay that these are screenshots from the first channel?

[timokhin-aa]

It is strange - the fact that people without weapons are sent for slaughter does not cause problems for you, but the fact that they did not allow to hide it causes ...

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: timokhin-aa

It is strange - the fact that people without weapons are sent for slaughter does not cause problems for you, but the fact that they did not allow to hide it causes ...

Are you by any chance a member of the Committee of Soldiers' Mothers?
Maybe the boat is under maintenance?
So far, they removed some of the equipment at the base for prophylaxis.
Do you not allow this?

[timokhin-aa]

I just know how it is there and what is real, down to which torpedoes on which boats are registered in the BIUS, I don’t need to fill it.

And the author who wrote this article has been working in the development of torpedo weapons since the early 2010s, and before that 10 years in the submarine.

So there is no room for admission. You have not tried to secretly discover Los Angeles on the "loaf"? And the author could. Just in case...

[dzvero]

And the author could.

Maybe I wouldn't do it better? After all, his success has been interpreted as all is well lovely marquise the suitability of the hardware and the uselessness of improvements because the best is the enemy of the good ..

[Looking for]

and Penkovsky and other JUDAS didn’t seem to be "littekhs" sold their homeland. So there is no need for years in the submarine !!

[timokhin-aa]

Well then, formulate where is the betrayal - the Navy is sending an unarmed submarine to the slaughter, the author is trying to warn the society about this and influence the High Command so that he still armed the boat.

Explain what is wrong with this.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: timokhin-aa

You have not tried to secretly discover Los Angeles on the "loaf"? And the author could. Just in case...

Well, then write that the "loaf" was not simple, but with a "twist" in the form of the prefix Delta. And then, look, damn it, what a dick for the whole Pacific Fleet!

[Serge-667]

The 949th project has excellent ears for its time. Why not discover?

[timokhin-aa]

Well, in general, it's not just amers' advantage in hydroacoustics and stealth.

[I am not a robot]

they were all killed or something

[Titus_2]

Quote: Dead Day

Quote: antivirus

a good fleet, perhaps we will build only after 2040-50 - to correct the demography and only then ... soup with a cat

so far we are only actively building cemeteries.

Yeah, and temples, schools and gardens are not particularly needed.

[Bez 310]

An article about boats while discussing the war with Japan.
Well, what's wrong with that, because most of the "experts" in VO even
does not understand the technical terms mentioned in the article, but "they
they want to show their education ".

[I am not a robot]

well, so most write that Japan crushed Russia with hats, and everything was lost

[Adrey]

An article about boats while discussing the war with Japan.
Accordingly, the theater of operations on which the boat is located. And the enemy is the most probable. With real claims and strength.

[Igor Tikhomirov]

It is unclear why the author has not sat down yet?

[Igor Tikhomirov]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

Take pictures of the posts of a warship, upload photos on the Internet, tell in detail and publicly what does not work there and how should the enemy act in order to surely destroy our submarine?
By the way, including the USSR, such "patriots" as the author of this article helped to destroy it.

It is unclear why the author has not sat down yet?

[ban]

This was shown on the first channel. Who should sit down ?!

[timokhin-aa]

And how cool it would be to hide everything - to send the guys to the slaughter with firewood instead of torpedoes and so that no one knows.
People like you would be very happy, but no, not in this case.

[I am not a robot]

you exaggerate, the guys were sent to the exercises, there is no war.
and who wanted to hide if shown on the first channel

[timokhin-aa]

The MO wants to hide the fact that the boats go to the BS with firewood instead of torpedoes.

[I am not a robot]

and how do you know that firewood instead of torpedoes, MO hides

[Alexander Lysenko]

Robot, read the articles of Timokhin and Klimov before being clever.

[I am not a robot]

and from where they can know something, if the MO is hiding

[Eug]

There is a very correct and, unfortunately, "eternal" anecdote, not only about the army ...
The general is walking through the garrison, he sees such a picture - two soldiers, under the leadership of a warrant officer, are digging and digging holes. The general asks what kind of nonsense it is - the first digs up, the second bawls ... The ensign reports - Comrade General, buries not the second, in the third. And the second did not arrive - he had to insert a tree into the hole ...
Alas...
And on a specific article, 'I would like to hear the arguments of the opposite side. In general, I am in favor of another interesting well-reasoned discussion.

[Scharnhorst]

And the discussion, as you can see, is not and will not be!

Yes, the efficiency of detecting low-noise targets at low heading angles of the GPBA is low, but it is ensured by the detection of such objects as torpedoes (and at considerable distances), and the same low-frequency signals of "illumination" (that is, our boat can understand that it is being guided and prepared to attack )

This wording of the sentence reminds me of the student's answer on the philosophy exam about Emmanuel Kant (from the comedy club ).

Yes, the efficiency of detecting low-noise targets is low, but it is ensured by the detection of such objects as torpedoes (), and the same low-frequency "illumination" signals ()

Squeeze.
Are torpedoes now low noise targets? Do you need a GPBA to detect low-frequency "illumination" signals?

And the author who wrote this article has been working in the development of torpedo weapons since the beginning of the 2010s, and before that 10 years in the submarine

"Digs deep!"

The same BIUS "Lama" has natural convective cooling - due to low power consumption (and GPBA is even less)!

A decent CIUS should have not only "natural convective cooling", but a reliable sensitive highly stable split-system. If this is an article by a highly professional, then could you hint to readers about the order of energy consumption of BIUS and GPBA for a visual comparison?
Scolding the ammunition load of obsolete mines and torpedoes, "lit up" in the report to the delight of the enemies by the stupid censorship from the FSB, the author does not mention the possible presence of "Calibrov" in the BC in anti-ship, anti-submarine, or for firing at ground targets. After all, he did not see them, but they probably are! (I remembered the episode about the gopher ).
And so the whole article is in the style of the famous character from "The Twelve Chairs", concerned about the presence of 5/8 dies.
Therefore, the entire controversy boiled down to a hypothetical confrontation at sea between the Russian Federation and Japan, which is more understandable for the uninitiated reader.

[Eug]

I hope that there will be a discussion. Your response is already a discussion, and reasoned.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Scharnhorst

And the discussion, as you can see, is not and will not be!

Yes, the efficiency of detecting low-noise targets at low heading angles of the GPBA is low, but it is ensured by the detection of such objects as torpedoes (and at considerable distances), and the same low-frequency signals of "illumination" (that is, our boat can understand that it is being guided and prepared to attack )

This wording of the sentence reminds me of the student's answer on the philosophy exam about Emmanuel Kant (from the comedy club ).

Yes, the efficiency of detecting low-noise targets is low, but it is ensured by the detection of such objects as torpedoes (), and the same low-frequency "illumination" signals ()

Squeeze.
Are torpedoes now low noise targets? Do you need a GPBA to detect low-frequency "illumination" signals?

And the author who wrote this article has been working in the development of torpedo weapons since the beginning of the 2010s, and before that 10 years in the submarine

"Digs deep!"

The same BIUS "Lama" has natural convective cooling - due to low power consumption (and GPBA is even less)!

A decent CIUS should have not only "natural convective cooling", but a reliable sensitive highly stable split-system. If this is an article by a highly professional, then could you hint to readers about the order of energy consumption of BIUS and GPBA for a visual comparison?
Scolding the ammunition load of obsolete mines and torpedoes, "lit up" in the report to the delight of the enemies by the stupid censorship from the FSB, the author does not mention the possible presence of "Calibrov" in the BC in anti-ship, anti-submarine, or for firing at ground targets. After all, he did not see them, but they probably are! (I remembered the episode about the gopher ).
And so the whole article is in the style of the famous character from "The Twelve Chairs", concerned about the presence of 5/8 dies.
Therefore, the entire controversy boiled down to a hypothetical confrontation at sea between the Russian Federation and Japan, which is more understandable for the uninitiated reader.

Why mention the presence of calibers, if the TA covers directly make it clear that the transmission of target designation through them is impossible?
Or will you be tapping the prelaunch target designation in Morse code on the TA cover?

[dzvero]

Is it possible to launch a CD in general from this TA model? If yes, then purely my guess - is it possible to enter data before loading the rocket into the TA?

[Boa kaa]

Quote: SovAr238A

Why mention the presence of calibers, if the TA covers directly make it clear that the transmission of target designation through them is impossible?

For Calibers, other TA, upper row are used. They did not get into the frame. Therefore, moderate your agility by half ...

[SovAr238A]

Quote: BoA KAA

Quote: SovAr238A

Why mention the presence of calibers, if the TA covers directly make it clear that the transmission of target designation through them is impossible?

For Calibers, other TA, upper row are used. They did not get into the frame. Therefore, moderate your agility by half ...

How was the video-picture salvo of 4 or 6 calibers? Well, from those shots in Syria?
I just don't remember these pictures now, after a few years

[timokhin-aa]

There was a project 6363, and here about 877

[timokhin-aa]

It's not 6363, it's 877. What kind of "Calibers" are there?

[timokhin-aa]

Clearly

Covers are the same

[timokhin-aa]

The answer from Klimov will be lower, but for now I will write mine, because I just could not resist:

Are torpedoes now low noise targets?

All torpedo manufacturers are going to make them low-noise targets, another thing is that it is quite difficult on thermal torpedoes, but on electric torpedoes it is easier and the desired goal - "the attack is evidenced by the inclusion of a torpedo CLO" is very close even for the Russian Federation. Onas is already available.

Do you need a GPBA to detect low-frequency "illumination" signals?

How do you find a signal at a frequency OUTSIDE the working spectrum of the built-in GAS? I'm just curious.

"Digs deep!"

In essence, object.

A decent CIUS should have not only "natural convective cooling", but a reliable sensitive highly stable split-system.

"Here fatigue is considered the measure of work" (c), and energy consumption is the characteristic of CIUS efficiency. A curtain.

I will say this - you can do it in different ways.

the author does not mention the possible presence in the BC "Calibers" in anti-ship, anti-submarine, or for firing at ground targets.

There are no missiles on 877. Generally. Again by.

In general, it should be a shame to write such a thing.

Below is the answer from Klimov:

Mr. Kononov, discussion is possible between persons who are at least versed in the topic. YOU, with ALL YOUR pseudo-sea nonsense, do not treat them from the word absolutely.
YOU are not even a student, but a chronic schoolboy, but with an absolutely inflated and painful PTSD.
Now for YOUR LOVE:
1. Yes, torpedoes can be quite quiet targets. In my articles, I have already touched on this, with some figures, and I do not intend to throw beads here in front of the notorious ...
2. Monsieur Koknonov (who had previously dabbled in art, and in general on all issues in which he pokes his nose) has become "Yksperd on BIUS"? A face on a table - there are memories of the developers of the "Node" and "Lama" on the network, and there this issue is considered separately. Google to help.
3. Power consumption not listed? - GOOGL TO HELP! Throwing beads in front of the notorious ... does not intend
4. But the most rzhach is "Caliber", - Yksperd Kononov, how are you going to introduce them? "By tapping through the back cover"? You generally understand the degree of your ABSOLUTE UNKNOWLEDGE (I repeat - with overwhelming painful aplomb).

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Scharnhorst

Are torpedoes now low noise targets?

It meant that although the GPBA does not see low-noise targets at small heading angles, it closes the blind aft sector in terms of detecting targets no less dangerous for submarines - torpedoes.
For the main SAC in the aft sector sees nothing at all - neither low-noise targets, nor noisy ones. There pr. 627 with an ensemble of songs and dances on board can come up unnoticed.

Quote: Scharnhorst

Do you need a GPBA to detect low-frequency "illumination" signals?

Open the article:

However, an extremely acute problem is that the main antenna (bow) has a frequency range limited in the low-frequency region and a "blind sector" in the stern. The inset in the screen shows registration data of a real low-frequency signal "illumination", the frequency band of which is outside the operating range of the MGK-400V nasal antenna.

That is, the enemy is able to "highlight" our submarine, including covertly (subject to power limitation and the use of noise-like signals) for it.

That is, again, except for the GPBA in this range, we have no one to work on the submarine.

[Scharnhorst]

Good day! I do not need to agitate for Soviet power and I also have no doubt about the usefulness of such an upgrade as a highly sensitive GPBA on a submarine or an PLO corvette. The fact is that the author misleads the audience by presenting this device as an absolute weapon. On the left side of the figure, in the form of an applique, the viewing area of ​​the nasal GAK PL is quite plausibly shown, but the right side is very primitive (if not mistakenly) trying to depict schematically the viewing area of ​​the GPBA, presented in the right side of the figure. On it, the view of the real view area is depicted in red-gray tones and it is difficult not to notice deep gaps and absolute dead funnels of immunity both in the direction of the towing vehicle itself and in the opposite direction, painted in gray-blue tones. And this is the desired real design view of the detection zone, without taking into account the differentiation of water layers by temperature, salinity and other distortion factors. And you, following the author, are broadcasting an erroneous message:

but on the other hand, it closes the blind aft sector in terms of detecting targets no less dangerous for submarines - torpedoes.

Read antenna theory at your leisure and you will understand your delusion.

Open the article:
However, an extremely acute problem is that the main antenna (bow) has a frequency range limited in the low-frequency region and a "blind sector" in the stern. The inset in the screen shows the registration data of a real low-frequency signal "illumination", the frequency band of which is outside the operating range of the MGK-400V nasal antenna.

That is, the enemy is able to "highlight" our submarine, including covertly (subject to power limitation and the use of noise-like signals) for it.

That is, again, except for the GPBA in this range, we have no one to work on the submarine.

Again, throughout the entire article, the author did not bother to specify the ranges of operation of MGK-400V and the hypothetical GPBA! An active source of low-frequency illumination is easy enough to find by placing passive sensors for receiving low-frequency radiation on board the submarine, and their competent distribution over the hull with digital processing of received signals will also cover the dead zone in the stern of the ship, which, by definition, cannot be covered by the towed antenna.
Well, not for the night mentioned "subject to power limitation and the use of noise-like signals." If the power of the "noise-like" signal is limited to the level of its disguise for natural noises, then as a result of its natural attenuation during the passage of the water medium to the desired object, re-reflection from the sound-absorbing coating of the submarine and the ability to receive and process it with a highly sensitive receiver on a specific carrier, the range of confident object detection will be reduced to unacceptably small values.
Let's not become like the victims of the exam, who are religious believers in the sermons of Greta Tumberg, and take the unfounded panicky articles of Maxim Klimov at face value.

[timokhin-aa]

From Klimov:

I do not need to agitate for Soviet power and I also have no doubt about the usefulness of such an upgrade as a highly sensitive GPBA on a submarine or an PLO corvette. The fact is that the author misleads the audience by presenting this device as an absolute weapon. On the left side of the figure, in the form of an applique, the viewing area of ​​the nasal GAK PL is quite plausibly shown, but the right side is very primitive (if not mistakenly) trying to depict schematically the viewing area of ​​the GPBA, presented in the right side of the figure. On it, the view of the real view area is depicted in red-gray tones and it is difficult not to notice deep gaps and absolute dead immunity craters both in the direction of the towing vehicle itself and in the opposite direction, painted in gray-blue tones. And this is the desired real design view of the detection zone, without taking into account the differentiation of water layers by temperature, salinity and other distortion factors.

Boy Andryusha Kononov, you are not just very stupid (in spite of the overwhelming and painful ChSV), but also just LAZY. And before you BREAK the nonsense, what you are doing with rapture, in fact, it would be worth at least a little bit on the topic to read.
DN GPBA is indicated on the right - including the longitudinal petals "forward" and "in the back".
And the bottom line is that since the energy of the nasal antenna turns out to be more than the “front” antenna pattern, then it is usually not used (or is used to control its own noise).
BUT in this particular case we are talking about FREQUENCY RANGE, which for the nose antenna DOES NOT PROVIDE LF detection. But for GPBA - we provide.
Fershteyn?

Again, throughout the entire article, the author did not bother to specify the ranges of operation of MGK-400V and the hypothetical GPBA! An active source of low-frequency illumination is easy enough to find by placing passive sensors for receiving low-frequency radiation on board the submarine, and their competent distribution over the hull with digital processing of received signals will also cover the dead zone in the stern of the ship, which, by definition, cannot be covered by the towed antenna.

Is Andrew a provocateur? The author does not intend to substitute himself like that. Purely formally, ChD MGK-400V is classified information. FORMALLY. But "sticking" with specific numbers can be specific.
About "easy enough" Andryusha's next verbiage.
Yes AIRBORNE antennas have a lower frequency range than the bow antennas. But THERE IS NO 877 !!!
Not to mention the fact that the Navy has been suffering with them (more precisely, with the problem of interference on them) since the 60s!
At the same time, at the GPBA, the BH is still LOWER, and for a number of low-frequency detectors, ON-BOARD DETECTIONS DO NOT PROVIDE. And GPBA PROVIDES.
About "their competent distribution" from the "vyunosh with a burning gaze" (but with obvious extremely weak knowledge in physics) Andryusha Kononov is simply FUNNY.

Well, and not for the night mentioned "subject to power limitation and the use of noise-like signals." If the power of the "noise-like" signal is limited to the level of its masking for natural noises, then as a result of its natural attenuation during the passage of the water medium to the desired object, re-reflection from the sound-absorbing coating of the submarine and the ability to receive and process it with a highly sensitive receiver on a specific carrier, the range of confident object detection will be reduced to unacceptably small values. Let's not become like the victims of the exam, who are religious believers in the sermons of Greta Tumberg, and take the unfounded panicky articles of Maxim Klimov at face value.

Once again, boy, you are very STUPID and LAZY (not wanting even minimal reading on the topic).
As for the range (energy) of the "hidden GL", it is provided by:
A) SIGNIFICANT SIGNAL BAR
B) A LONG TIME OF ITS ACCUMULATION (1-2 ORDERS more than that of conventional HAKs)
So Dyusha, would you go to teach physics, otherwise there will be "deuce again"))))
PM

[Sergey39]

Read all these calculations from political to technical information, just an information cloud! If there was an opportunity to take Ostrava to the Japanese and their owners, they would do it perfectly, but the Russian islands. They do not climb, they know that they will be rebuffed, taking into account the state of the two best friends of the state!
And, the fact that there are many unsolved problems in the fleet is known, although slowly but we are moving forward!)))

[Illanatol]

Everything that is happening now in the relationship between Russia and Japan, more and more begins to resemble 1903.

So what? Will they arrange a new Tsushima and Mukden for us?
Japan is quite strong militarily, but extremely vulnerable.
90% of the population is in the coastal zone, it is easy to wash away "atomic tsunami".
And the Japanese are far from what they were a century ago.
Put your entire well-being on the line, start an aggression against a nuclear power, risk finding dozens of new "Hiroshimas", at least for the sake of a few islands, to which most Japanese cannot be lured into ... they are not so frostbitten and brainless.

The most convenient moment for Japan to resolve the territorial issue by force was in the 90s, when our Armed Forces lay below the plinth. But even then the samurai did not dare.
And now - even more so.
Empty fears, the right word.

[ALARI]

Maybe not fears. In the 90s, with all the weakness of our army, it was a large fragment of the Soviet Army and most of the officers were preparing for a meat grinder with the United States and were ready to press buttons, and politicians were not yet completely decomposed and mired in luxury and Western real estate. And what now, for the sake of some cobblestones in the sea, they lose everything, they can sell it for a profit for themselves and only for themselves.

[ugol2]

We all laugh at the Yap, but there really is 25 km from Hokkaido to Kunashir, from Hokkaido to Tanfilieva Island (Habomai) only 8 km.

8 km is nothing. But they will take and land troops, and stick their flag. There the population is 0 people. Some border guards and seasonal workers.
What we shall do? Concern is indispensable, the people will not understand. Conventional armed forces are indispensable, since the Japanese will drive everything that is possible there and much faster than help will come from the mainland to our border guards.
A nuclear strike on Japanese ships is obtained, whatever one may say. And there is already how the card will fall.

[ALARI]

Without nuclear weapons it will be like 117 years ago, the shoulder of delivering everything to the Far East is huge and only a piece of iron or air. The fleet is weaker than then, and the morale of the population and the troops are not very good. Only a massive blow on the first day until the others pulled up. No body, no matter.

[Doccor18]

Quote: ALARI

yes the morale of the population ...

The morale was and is, always on top! But the population dries up from year to year ...

[Per se.]

Quote: ugol2

A nuclear strike on Japanese ships is obtained, whatever one may say. And there is already how the card will fall.

This is unlikely by ships. Most likely, the Damansky plot will repeat itself, where everything will be burned, together with the Japanese landing party, but on their own island. Another question is whether our government will even decide to do this, now it is not the Soviet Union, and the "acquired by overwork" from those in power is in the West. Puffing out your cheeks is one thing, for the sake of ratings, actually fighting is quite another.

[I am not a robot]

why haven't they landed the troops and stuck their flag, they only express their concerns

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Janerobot

why haven't they landed the troops and stuck their flag, they only express their concerns

Pump up their society - this time!
They are waiting for a certain level of global rejection of Russia, its way of life, its politicians, its goods and much more - these are two!

When all the solitaire is complete, they will attack!

And it will be soon!
The next 5-7 years!

[I am not a robot]

yes, the bridge will collapse, Russia will collapse and we will ask to go to Ukraine, there will be nothing to eat, the Chinese will seize Siberia, or maybe Japan will be washed away by the tsunami, why carry this unsupported nonsense
can you predict the future?

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Janerobot

yes, the bridge will collapse, Russia will collapse and we will ask to go to Ukraine, there will be nothing to eat, the Chinese will seize Siberia, or maybe Japan will be washed away by the tsunami, why carry this unsupported nonsense
can you predict the future?

The Japanese have been preparing society for the return of the northern territories for 60-70 years.
Not a single politician will be able to take the helm if his program does not include the issue of returning the northern territories - his otherwise already prepared Japanese population will not understand.
Are you aware of this or not?
Learn to look at any question not only from your own bell tower, but also from the opposite side.
Then you will see much more.
The outlook will expand.
And learn to look for solutions, and not chop off the shoulder with a shout: "The war will show the plan!" ...
Do we need a war?
Which will cost trillions, tens of trillions and thousands of victims?
So maybe just spend half a trillion and saturate the Pacific Fleet with so many weapons and troops that the war would become a deterrent for the enemy?
For a war with Japan, given the current situation in the Far East, is inevitable.
And it is precisely the situation that needs to be changed.

[I am not a robot]

why saturate with troops when you can bang nuclear warheads

[Roman_vh]

So it was like it was 2 years. Already 5-7 have appeared. Why take a donkey in training for 20 years.
Recently, commentators on VO have become strange. All their comments are interpreted as Katz offering to surrender (and there is no need for Zionobyds about the fact that Katz never gives up, not about that).

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Roman_VH

So it was like it was 2 years. Already 5-7 have appeared. Why take a donkey in training for 20 years.
Recently, commentators on VO have become strange. All their comments are interpreted as Katz offering to surrender (and there is no need for Zionobyds about the fact that Katz never gives up, not about that).

You, as an ordinary man in the street, can only see black and white.
There is nothing else for you.
And the rest can be, for example, an increase in the composition of nuclear submarines in the Pacific Ocean by 50% more than in the current parity with the Northern Fleet.
And not on the Black Sea frigates are needed, they have nothing to do there, and in the Middle East, too, but in the Pacific Fleet.
And what weapons for the submarine and for the surface fleet are needed first of all at the Pacific Fleet.
And the infrastructure is needed in the Far East, albeit in a small way similar to the Soviet one.
For everything that is located on the islands and the coastal strip of the Far East will be destroyed instantly.
The cities will not be beaten.
The population, in fact, will not suffer directly.
In this case, the use of nuclear weapons will be impossible to argue.
As in the same Yugoslavia.
The defensive infrastructure was destroyed and Yugoslavia surrendered after 3 weeks ...

[Roman_vh]

Well, that's what you are talking about. What other argumentation is needed.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Roman_VH

Well, that's what you are talking about. What other argumentation is needed.

Well, tell us, finally, the strategist, then you are ours, by someone, about my mistakes in what I wrote ...

I tell you and everyone else the facts who beat whom and how and who ...
You, like Annushka, fall into the astral plane, with the words, well, what should I tell you ...

Your empty pathos said everything for itself.
For you cannot answer.
not facts.
not by arguments.

Tell us why Yugoslavia surrendered so quickly, that moment, one of the most powerful armies in Europe?

Tell us how you can fight Japan, having five times less opportunities in a military confrontation.
Tell me.
You are, judging by the pathos, a global strategist!

[Roman_vh]

I apologize, you still poke your wife (if any). There is no point in commenting on all your nonsense. Only the suspicion that the DPRK has nuclear weapons stops everyone from attacking this country.

[timokhin-aa]

You don't understand how decisions are made. North Korea is dangerous and has nuclear weapons. And what will its defeat give? NOTHING.

That is why no one attacks her. Russia is not touched because they have not groped the damage (including political) that we consider unacceptable and that we are guaranteed to use nuclear weapons.
But as soon as this line is calculated, we will immediately see this ...

[Roman_vh]

Well, for some reason, nothing, for the Republic of Kazakhstan, this territory is very much even something.
And about us, well, as they say, in our country for any cunning opu, there is a bolt with the right thread.
I have not argued, and I do not assert, and that it is typical I will not assert that in our country everything (okay, everything, at least something) is good. But this alarmism is unpleasant to me. It seems to me that they are not shown directions for changes, the wrong resource, but on the contrary creates the illusion for the enemies :) that they can already start. And this is a bad illusion, both for us and for them.
As the commander of MRKshki said about the peculiarities of national fishing - If you are still smart, why don't you go in formation. What is there to spread the thought along the tree? What's the point of this? I still hope that we will not leave them unanswered. And there ..... We will go to heaven, and they will simply die (s).
Something like this.
Shl I'd better go fishing tomorrow. Well, they are in the stump of all these global problems. I'll rest for a week. And then suddenly tomorrow is the apocalypse, and I didn't even go fishing. :))

[Eug]

Caliber or its analogue (non-nuclear) according to Fukushima .. in case of misunderstanding - according to another NPP .. I see no other option ...

[Doccor18]

Quote: ugol2

We are all laughing at the Yapas here ...

"The one who laughs last laughs" ...
When you pass La Perouse at night, you can see the lights of Wakkanai ... 43 km from Japan to Sakhalin, a stone's throw ...

[Illanatol]

Maybe not fears. In the 90s, for all the weakness of our army, it was a large fragment of the Soviet Army and most of the officers were preparing for a meat grinder with the United States and were ready to press buttons, and politicians were not yet completely decomposed and mired in luxury and Western real estate.

There is no need to tell a fairy tale. The army then degraded at a terrifying speed, the first Chechen army showed this clearly. On paper, there are still strengths, but in fact? The marines from the Pacific Fleet were driven to Chechnya, there was no one to fight. The conscripts were fattened due to their dystrophy. The state of the materiel is just tears. Corruption, theft, squandering ... what is already there.
And as for the politicians ... who has not completely decomposed there? Yeltsin, Gaidar, Chubais?
It would be better if they decomposed completely ... below ground level.
And all this was well known (and savored) in the West, including in Japan.
Reflected even in mass culture, in Japanese anime in particular.
For example, there was an anime series "Wolf's Rain". It shows the decline of humanity, the decline of civilization. And people of the era of the decline of civilization are shown as Russians, in caps with earflaps, and their money is Russian rubles (which we had in the 90s), reproduced with amazing accuracy.
Russia has become a symbol of decline and decay.
So we did not instill any fear in a possible aggressor. Only contempt and disgust.

[ALARI]

And why didn't they multiply and divide us by 0? And they were scared that then the military and the politicians (Yeltsin, Gaidar, Chubais, these are not, but besides them there were others) would have the courage to press the button during the intervention, but now I'm not sure anymore. Now they will bargain and negotiate only at least something left. A part is better than nothing.

[Illanatol]

And why didn't they multiply and divide us by 0?

It was considered that the game was already done. Like, we have already multiplied and divided, there is no need to worry anymore.
And that the appetites of some serfs in the United States were not completely satisfied, the master did not really care. Serfs must be kept in a black body, otherwise they can become insolent.

but now I'm not sure anymore.

I'm sure. Or is it A.S. Pushkin forced the "collective West" to reconsider their views on Russia?
Why has the assessment of our country changed so dramatically?
Whatever one may say, but this is still not Yeltsin's merit.

Now they will bargain and negotiate only at least something left.

We tried to negotiate and bargain, but did not grow together.
Putin is a liberal and Eurocentric by his convictions, but it even dawned on him that he would not be able to get along with the West. The process of understanding, I suspect, was unpleasant, it is difficult to get rid of illusions. But you can't argue against the facts, so I had to remember again about our most loyal allies - the army and the navy. He doesn't want to end like Milosevic or even like Shevardnadze.

[ALARI]

I agree with your last paragraph 100, but I would like to add that we should not forget about the most important ally, our own people. And clearly choose you for the people or the people for you.

[Illanatol]

I agree. Alas, while we are taking care of the people ... well, how, approximately, does the shepherd take care of the flock.
The sheep, if possible, should be full, but you can also make a barbecue.
Probably, our authorities consider only “economically efficient” people. And the rest are just an annoying supplement, the "ineffective" should have died out long ago and not have prevented successful citizens from moving vigorously to the "Great Capitalist Tomorrow".
However, this is not only ours.
Actually, in the conditions of the "highest phase of capitalism" it cannot be otherwise.

[ALARI]

Country corporation. Corporations usually have the same operating principle as you described.

[Illanatol]

Well, corporations are also different.
The USSR was also a "country-corporation" in which citizens were minority shareholders. In reality, they did not manage the economy, but they had their share of dividends (free education, medicine, etc.). Then the "managers" realized that the minority shareholders could be thrown away and become sovereign owners themselves. They carried out privatization, exchanging the rights of minority shareholders for vouchers and deleting them from the number of shareholders. "Daragiye Rassiyane" turned into classical proletarians, who only own the hands of the workers.
This is how the "Russian Federation" corporation turned out.

"Someone has a donut, someone has a donut hole, this is the Democratic Republic."

[ALARI]

The USSR was rather a country-community.

[Illanatol]

There are no "governors" in the community ... direct rule of the people (the so-called "gathering").
And we had managers, "managers". Well, the fish usually rots from the head, the head also rotted away.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: ALARI

In the 90s, for all the weakness of our army, it was a large fragment of the Soviet Army and most of the officers were preparing for a meat grinder with the United States and were ready to press buttons, and politicians were not yet completely decomposed and mired in luxury and Western real estate.

In the 90s, in the Far East, senior officers whistled to sell the Pacific Fleet, selling its ships for scrap and renting them out for ridiculous official money.

[Vladimir1155]

Thanks to the dear Maxim Klimov for pressing issues, I am especially glad that he supports the adequate opinions of all people who understand that the fleet is needed in Kamchatka. deep, not Baltic .. another crime is the presence of the fleet in Vladik, Japan is not afraid of our DEPL, then what she really fears is RPKSN and APL .. therefore the security fundamentals of both Vladivostok and smoked lie in Petropavlovsk Kamchatsky and it is he who should be given combat stability, but admirals prefer comfortable Vladivostok and not foggy Petropavlovsk, this is a crime and treason to the Motherland, I think

[I am not a robot]

our nuclear submarines are located in Petropavlovsk Kamchatsky, and this is the main weapon of the fleet, and not pukalko with vneu

[timokhin-aa]

Do you know how many submarines there are on the move?

[I am not a robot]

How should I know
I replied to the comment above, you read that comment and you will understand why I answered this way
how many Japanese people are on the move

[Vladimir1155]

even if out of three, then all the same they are more important than the rest of the Pacific Fleet, and 400 times more important than the Kuzi unnecessary

[timokhin-aa]

How are you going to deal with the Japanese anti-submarine forces with three submarines?

[I am not a robot]

why fight them?

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: timokhin-aa

How are you going to deal with the Japanese anti-submarine forces with three submarines?

for this, it is necessary to transfer to Petropavlovsk, a strike aviation regiment, PLO aircraft, c500 divisions, several Bastion and Bal batteries, Varyag, four 1155, Um Fast and a couple of Guardians, and this is not enough ...

[I am not a robot]

Well, I think that Kuzya is needed

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Janerobot

I think that Kuzya

we do not need Kuzya, sell him to China and India until the war begins, but to make torpedoes and devices for the women of Warsaw

[Roman_vh]

No, no, Raise the pension to grandmothers !!!!!!!

[Vladimir1155]

if you sell something you don't need, you can buy a lot of everything you need

[Looking for]

Do you know ???

[timokhin-aa]

One 971st and two "loaves". Impressive power?

[I am not a robot]

so how many pl is in the Japanese fleet on the move or repair is the current in the Russian fleet

[timokhin-aa]

Somewhere 70% ready

[I am not a robot]

where to read about it. still interesting

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: timokhin-aa

One 971st and two "loaves". Impressive power?

impressive, you can turn Japan into a desert, and even add Yarsami, so that it would be discouraging to attack the primordially Russian islands ... but the primordially Russian Hokaido should not be incinerated, for which we saved for the Ainu from the Japanese genocide

[timokhin-aa]

Will not work. Do not exaggerate, the Japanese will overheat these boats, falling apart from old age, simply playfully.

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: timokhin-aa

boats falling apart from old age

well, why so weak, you know me, you can't fool me on the chaff
K-550 "Alexander Nevsky" 955 202 19.03.2004/13.12.2010/24.10.2011 23.12.2013/XNUMX/XNUMX XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX Pacific Fleet In service
K-551 Vladimir Monomakh 955 203/19.03.2006/30.12.2012 18.01.2013/19.12.2014/XNUMX XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX Pacific Fleet In service


K-552 "Prince Oleg" 955A 205
TO-??? "Generalissimo Suvorov" 955A 206 26.12.2014[36] 12.2021[52] 12.2022[53][50][52][54] Pacific Fleet[51] Preparing for launching[5

[timokhin-aa]

This is an SSBN.

And you look at multipurpose.

[Vladimir1155]

One of the types of information concealment is avoiding the discussion of information undesirable for the manipulator, which is usually used in discussion. In the course of her, the manipulator tries to direct the conversation so that the topic under discussion does not intersect with the withheld information. All attempts to shift the conversation in the direction of withheld information by the manipulator are suppressed.

The peculiarity of this technique is that this “suppression” is carried out not by “forceful” (“gagging”, deprivation of speech, interruption of the discussion — see clause (14.5), etc.) by way, but through the logical withdrawal of the discussion to the desired manipulator side. He seems to impose on his opponents a topic of discussion that is advantageous to himself, hoping that they will not notice how this topic moves away from the subject of manipulation.

An important feature of this method of manipulation is the unwillingness of the manipulator to consider the directions of discussion (discussion) different from the one proposed by him.

Avoiding discussing something is a common form of manipulation of consciousness in conditions when the manipulator, on the one hand, has no effective (or none at all, due to a weak position, his own stupidity or laziness) arguments in defense of his manipulative attitude.

so back to our Batons ... you admit that you made a mistake by writing that the Pacific Fleet Batons are supposedly old, but I proved once or twice that they are young? ... be honest!

[I am not a robot]

so SSBNs will glass Japan

[Serge-667]

In this case, Comrade Timokhin is absolutely right. At KTOF, there is generally a problem with everything that should be afloat in the first line.
And it's not even about the PL. Atomic - non-nuclear, VNEU or reactor. What, to the gullies, is the difference ...
The tasks of the Fleet are solved COMPREHENSELY.
And this means the use of all available "materiel" in full.
Drive at least 50 boats to the Far Eastern theater of operations, without ensuring the possibility of their deployment, without the possibility of maintaining them in combat readiness, and this is not only torpedoes and GPBA, but also people, infrastructure and logistics. Without all of this, talking about a hypothetical Japanese threat is meaningless.
There must be a clear doctrine and corresponding support and combat readiness.

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Serge-667

And it's not even about the PL. Atomic - non-nuclear, VNEU or reactor. What, to the gullies, is the difference ...
The tasks of the Fleet are solved COMPREHENSELY.
And this means the use of all available "materiel" in full.
Drive at least 50 boats to the Far Eastern theater of operations, without ensuring the possibility of their deployment, without the possibility of maintaining them in combat readiness, and this is not only torpedoes and GPBA, but also people, infrastructure and logistics. Without all of this, talking about a hypothetical Japanese threat is meaningless.
There must be a clear doctrine and corresponding support and combat readiness.

and the doctrine of ensuring the sustainability of SSBNs, and hence the location of the fleet and aviation of coastal assets in the SSBN base area, that is, in Kamchatka ... I agree on this. but I disagree with Timokhin

[Serge-667]

Quite right. And not only the sustainability of SSBNs.
Any submarine combat area must be provided with KPUGs.
Do they exist? How many such groups can be displayed at KTOF? Maybe there is a lot of one DPL with GPBA?

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Serge-667

Quite right. And not only the sustainability of SSBNs

Well, in any case, first of all, at least the area of ​​the nuclear submarine base should be viewed for enemy submarines and their destruction, and as for the Japanese sea, I agree, there is almost no need for the fleet as far as anti-piracy ships of the third rank are enough for the eyes and ears

[Serge-667]

And I did not say that the Navy is not needed in the Sea of ​​Japan.
I just asked what we can afford there.
And anti-piracy scows, this is not a solution to the issue.
The Sea of ​​Japan is, in fact, a part of the Pacific Ocean and a strategic area of ​​our interests.
If the doctrine of the Navy records the representation and protection of the military-political interests of the Russian Federation, there not only "doves of peace are obliged to flounder, with a speed of 20 real knots, but also a pair of KUGs with all that it implies.
But. I am a realist and I understand that as a result of the criminal actions of those responsible for the country's defense capability, we cannot afford even a defensive strategy, let alone "beat the enemy on its territory."
Therefore, let's proceed from reality and do not forget that the discussion of the problems of the Navy in the military does not in any way affect reality.

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Serge-667

But. I am a realist and I understand that as a result of the criminal actions of those responsible for the country's defense capability, we cannot afford even a defensive strategy, let alone "beat the enemy on its territory."

by 2030, all ships of the first and second rank at the Pacific Fleet will be decommissioned, and only three frigates have been built (if we assume that five more frigates will go to the north) or four if divided equally, so a further reduction in the fleet is inevitable, for submarines it is good if the quantitative composition and complete absence of naval aviation ... that's what we're heading for

[Serge-667]

And the question is, why then all this .... Discussion?

[link]

Knowing what and how it was before, and looking now at the space images of our naval forces, tears are welling up. You can't replace it with parades.

[timokhin-aa]

Therefore, let's proceed from reality and do not forget that the discussion of the problems of the Navy in the military does not in any way affect reality.

But no. Affects. Articles from here are read in very high offices.

[DenVB]

Quote: vladimir1155

the basics of security for both Vladivostok and smokers lie in Petropavlovsk Kamchatsky

Moreover, Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky is supplied only by sea. Well, more by air, but it's not serious. An ambush, however.

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: DenVB

Moreover, Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky is supplied

from strategic underground warehouses, and Vladivostok is only the only railway line that the enemy can easily bomb out, unless, of course, he is sure that he will receive a response from the Peter and Paul loaves and Siberian yars ...

[lopuhan2006]

Quote: Dead Day

all Max Klimov ... you kapets ... right now the patriots will devour you .... begiii!

Vladimir 2U has already taken out the sauce with the instruments!) What we do not recognize in the heads of the General Staff and the country's leadership, but what we see in fact, we can draw conclusions: Japan is multiplying its muscles, China by itself, we are on our own and for yourself, Russia has no allies! Japan is not Afghanistan, and maybe that's why the Americans are leaving Central Asia freeing up resources? There were a lot of signals!

[Yun Klob]

Alarmist.
Disadvantages. Of course, our submarines have, but the perfect weapon does not exist.
The question is in the correct application of what is.

[Trapperxnumx]

Quote: Yoon Clob

Alarmist.
Disadvantages. Of course, our submarines have, but the perfect weapon does not exist.
The question is in the correct application of what is.

With this approach, you can switch to flintlock guns. The main thing is to use it correctly, yeah

[Serge-667]

Why not? It is necessary to be content with what is, not cool production work of animators.

[Abram Ivanovich]

To be honest, all these analogue networks look like a cable studio from the nineties.

[Wildcat]

The article is good, plus I put it.
But I don’t quite understand the author, my words don’t add up to conscious sentences. Either I’m still sleeping in the morning, or ...
So, the first question, "for hardware". Why is there even a question about whether GPBA is possible at Varshavyanka? Is there IMHO, photos of Indian Varshavyanka, to which GPBA were attached?
And ours, it turns out, just do not want?

[timokhin-aa]

And ours, it turns out, just do not want?

Right

[Wildcat]

And where, then, are those who are supposed to keep watch and catch spies with saboteurs?

[timokhin-aa]

There is no such crime - supply of ineffective obsolete weapons to the Armed Forces

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: timokhin-aa

supply of ineffective obsolete weapons to the Armed Forces

there is such a crime 58-1. Definition of counter-revolutionary activity.
“Counter-revolutionary is any action aimed at overthrowing, undermining or weakening the power of the workers 'and peasants' councils and ... the governments of the USSR, union and autonomous republics or to undermine or weaken the external security of the USSR and the main economic, political and national gains of the proletarian revolution; any actions that damage the military might of the USSR, its state independence or the inviolability of its territory; espionage on the side of the enemy, flight or flight abroad. "
58-1. Treason to the Motherland: execution with confiscation of property, or 10 years with confiscation of property.
58-1b. Treason on the part of military personnel: execution with confiscation of property.
58-1c. In the event of a soldier's escape or flight abroad, the adult members of his family, if they in any way contributed to the impending or committed treason, or at least knew about it, but did not bring it to the attention of the authorities, are punished - by imprisonment for a term of 5 to 10 years with the confiscation of all property.
The remaining adult members of the traitor's family who lived with him or were dependent on him at the time the crime was committed are subject to the deprivation of voting rights and exile to remote areas of Siberia for 5 years.
58-1y. Failure to report on the part of a soldier about an impending or committed treason entails imprisonment for 10 years. Failure to report by other citizens (not military personnel) is prosecuted in accordance with Art. 58-12. [20 July 1934]
58-2. Armed uprising, any action with the intent to forcibly seize any part of its territory from the Soviet Union or an invasion with the aim of seizing power: shooting or declaring an enemy of workers with confiscation of property and deprivation of citizenship of the union republic and, thereby, citizenship of the USSR and expulsion from the borders of the Union SSR forever, with the admission, under extenuating circumstances, of reduction to imprisonment for a term not less than three years, with confiscation of all or part of the property.
58-3. Contacts with a foreign state for counter-revolutionary purposes or its individual representatives, as well as contributing in any way to a foreign state that is in a state of war with the USSR or fighting against it by means of intervention or blockade are punishable under Article 58-2.
58-4. Providing assistance to the international bourgeoisie, which does not recognize the equality of the communist system, seeking to overthrow it, as well as to social groups and organizations that are under the influence or directly organized by this bourgeoisie in carrying out activities hostile to the USSR: punishment is similar to Article 58-2
58-5. The declination of a foreign state or any public groups in it, to declare war, armed intervention in the affairs of the USSR or other hostile actions, in particular: blockade, seizure of state property, severance of diplomatic relations and other aggressive actions against the USSR: the punishment is similar 58-2 article
58-6. Espionage, that is, the transfer, abduction or collection for the purpose of transmitting information that is a state secret, or economic information that is not a state secret, but which is not subject to disclosure by direct prohibition by law or by order of the heads of departments, institutions and enterprises. The punishment is similar to Article 58-2.
58-7. The undermining of state industry, transport, trade, money circulation or the credit system, as well as cooperation, committed for counter-revolutionary purposes through the appropriate use of state institutions and enterprises, or opposition to their normal activities, as well as the use of state institutions and enterprises or opposition to their activities, committed in the interests of former owners or interested capitalist organizations, that is, industrial sabotage: the punishment is similar to article 58-2.
58-8. Terrorist acts directed against representatives of the Soviet government or leaders of revolutionary workers and peasants' organizations: the punishment is similar to article 58-2.
58-9. Causing damage to the transport system, water supply, communications and other structures or state and public property for counter-revolutionary purposes: the punishment is similar to Article 58-2.
58-10. Propaganda or agitation containing a call for the overthrow, undermining or weakening of Soviet power or for the commission of certain counter-revolutionary crimes (Articles 58-2 - 58-9), as well as the distribution or production or storage of literature of the same content entail - imprisonment for term not less than six months.
The same actions during mass unrest or using religious or national prejudices of the masses, or in a military situation, or in areas declared martial law: the punishment is similar to Article 58-2.
58-11. Any kind of organizational activity aimed at preparing or committing counter-revolutionary crimes provided for in this chapter is equated to the commission of such and is prosecuted by the criminal code under the relevant articles.
58-12. Failure to report a reliably known, impending or committed counter-revolutionary crime: from 6 months in prison.
58-13. Active actions or active struggle against the working class and the revolutionary movement, manifested in a responsible or secret (agents) position under the tsarist system or among counter-revolutionary governments during the civil war: the punishment is similar to Article 58-2.
58-14. (added June 6, 1927) Counter-revolutionary sabotage, that is, the deliberate failure of someone to perform certain duties or willfully negligent fulfillment of them with the special purpose of weakening the power of the government and the activities of the state apparatus, entails imprisonment for a term of at least one year, with confiscation all or part of the property, with an increase, under especially aggravating circumstances, up to execution with confiscation.

[timokhin-aa]

This is in the past, not now.

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: timokhin-aa

It's in the past, it's not now

you confuse the offenses and laws, there are crimes, but the law no longer exists, this is the problem

[timokhin-aa]

The criminality of an act is determined by law, Vladimir.
Once upon a time it was legally possible to trade in people, it was not a crime.

[Serge-667]

Wrong. Indian capabilities (depths, tactics, etc.) are completely different.

[Viktor Sergeev]

The author go to the doctor, what kind of war are you raving about? Only a complete nutcase can attack Russia, Chponiya is not one of those.

[timokhin-aa]

Even Chechnya attacked us in 1999, Georgia attacked our troops in 2008, Turkey shot down our plane in 2015, and since Japan has an overwhelming superiority in forces in the theater of operations, and behind the back is the nuclear United States, then ...

[I am not a robot]

do you think that shooting down a plane and attacking territory are one and the same
and we have nuclear, not behind our backs

[S. Viktorovich]

In the current situation of the absence of modern "diesel" boats, the development efforts should be concentrated on creating a new project with breakthrough solutions in all the main parameters - energy, stealth, detection, control and communication, weapons. Such a project requires the development of the scientific research institute of the Ministry of Defense in terms of TTZ, the creation of cooperation and, of course, priority funding.

[Wildcat]

The second question "for iron".
Given: "" Caliber "?
So these submariners were not given it either. Saved ... "
But I also sometimes watch TV and here's the news: "Diesel-electric submarine" Rostov-on-Don successfully launched a cruise missile in the Barents Sea, the head of the press service of the Northern Fleet, Captain 1st Rank Vadim Serga, told RIA Novosti. "Https: //rg.ru/2015/10/02/reg-szfo/rostov.html
Rostov-on-Don is the Black Sea Fleet. The author writes about a boat in the Pacific Fleet.
That is, the author wants to say that Calibers were given at the Black Sea Fleet, but not at the Pacific Fleet?
This cannot be, the Pacific Fleet is where the Pacific Ocean is, and it is slightly larger than the Black Sea, which, not only from a submarine in the middle, can be fired from "coast to coast" with cruise missiles.

[timokhin-aa]

Rostov-on-Don, this 6363, and in the article about the modernized 877

[Wildcat]

I, of course, am not a specialist in underwater hardware, but 636 is a development of 877, and what reasons may be not to supply the weapon that is, during modernization? Does the geometry of the case do not allow TA? Or, again, "no need, because there will be no war"?
Let a unit be in the fleet, and she fights ... with mines and old torpedoes, missiles are not needed?

[OgnennyiKotik]

The more you understand our Armed Forces, the more such questions. A complete feeling that pests control our Armed Forces and the state as a whole. Who is doing this because of their stupidity, and who is deliberate betrayal - this is the second question.

[Wildcat]

Here and from 636 there is also a "question for iron" - do all Varshavyank women have calibers? Infa came across that not all.

[Rostislav]

One gets the impression that the General Staff does not really care about the level of the Pacific Fleet's combat capability in the context of the confrontation with Japan.
Hope for a vigorous loaf? Appeared after a change in military doctrine and the ability to use nuclear weapons even in the event of an attack using conventional weapons.

[Alecsandr]

You are disclosing all military secrets here. Foreign spies will study this article with interest. But, I think, not everything was shown here. Something behind the scenes remained that is not supposed to be seen by someone who is not supposed to see what is not supposed to.

[KJIETyc]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

True, after we apply TNW, such sanctions await us that all the current pressure will seem like a child's tale. We will really become a rogue country like the DPRK. In any case, the chances of this are very high.

what does Katz offer? Give the Japs your apartment at once instead of a rocket at the attackers, and then suddenly there will be sanctions. You will be beaten with a stick, and sanctions will be imposed if you try to defend yourself, right? So maybe a horseradish (plant) on these your sanctions, until they beaten to death.
ч

[timokhin-aa]

Katz suggests preparing to fight for real, and not like now.
What does not suit you personally in this idea?

[Glagol1]

In order to comment on the technical part of the article, you must have a certain level of knowledge. I miss them. But the comparison with 1903, in my opinion, is not correct. And China has nothing to do with it. The tactical nuclear weapons that Russia has and which Japan does not have makes their invasion of us impossible. Strikes by tactical nuclear weapons on bases, airfields, ports, without involving cities, of course, completely paralyzes the Japanese military machine, causing minimal damage to the civilian population. Of course, Russia will not bomb the city's nuclear weapons, we are not Americans, thank God. Nuclear weapons consumption is unlikely to exceed 15 - 20 units, this will be enough to completely stop hostilities on the Japanese side. This will be followed by an ultimatum from us about the demilitarization of Hokkaido and some other conditions. Everything! The Stars-Stripes are viciously smoking on the sidelines, China is making a statement like, who will come to us, it will be even worse, the world community is whispering intensively. The Japanese themselves are dismantling the rubble and fighting radiation, which will not be too much. The Japanese are not fools, they all understand this.
I am sure that all these Japanese gestures are just another chain of pressure on Russia from the West. Japan in this regard is still an occupied territory. Through pressure, the West hopes to weaken our positions and expand its influence. It is important for them to press constantly, here is the Crimean platform, in sports - doping and disqualification, expulsion of diplomats, provocations with our citizens, economic sanctions and bans, etc., and here are the Japanese with claims to the islands.
But it will definitely not come to real hostilities. I think even an official warning about the use of nuclear weapons will return all Japanese forces to their places of permanent deployment. Well, they will not return, a volley on command ...

[Victor Leningradets]

Today is not - tomorrow is. Japan's technological readiness to develop nuclear missiles is prohibitive. The question is the nostalgic cowardice of the United States.
In my opinion, the WAR IN THE PACIF is inevitable, and it is impossible for the Russian Federation to avoid participation in it.
China carries out territorial and economic expansion and the Anglo-Saxons will try to extinguish it (like the Russian Empire in 1853-1855, and later in 1904-1905. And then - Germany in 1914-1918, and later in 1939-1945. ). As always, they will look for fools to shed their blood for their interests. At the same time, they will solve the problems of overpopulation in Asia.
China will try to create a "Zone of Prosperity" turned inside out, and for us a great reason to return Alaska and the Bering Strait.

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Victor Leningradets

and for us a great reason to return Alaska and the Bering Strait.

and Hokkaido, Hokkaido was forgotten, ... because we were promised and deceived on the Missouri battleship, the Americans are deceitful

[timokhin-aa]

They didn’t promise, and we didn’t ask. And why do you need Hokkaido, Vladimir, this is another ISLAND, for the guaranteed possession of which you need a FLEET.

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: timokhin-aa

why do you need Hokkaido

https://www.mk.ru/social/2020/09/01/pocheum-stalin-zapretil-sovetskiy-desant-na-khokkaydo.html вот почитайте, просвещайтесь в вопросах морской политики, в которых вы не сведущи видимо

[Victor Leningradets]

Alas, Vladimir, but Hokkaido is included in the "Zone of Prosperity" and will go to China (with our common hypothetical victory).
How would the Far East and Baikal go there!

[Vladimir1155]

we only need the coast from La Perouse to the Kuril Strait ... for what? so that Okhotskoye became an internal lake of the Russian Federation

[timokhin-aa]

There may be a schema such that America is responsible for nuclear weapons in Japan according to our Strategic Missile Forces from a short distance with its SLBMs, and this will turn the situation around, now nuclear-free Russia will be against the United States and Japan, which will have American nuclear weapons for two.

Tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, Analytics will publish an article on the topic.

[Serge-667]

It seems that the Commander-in-Chief, like Edgar, and you, PERSONALLY will make a decision.
How I envy you, to be honest.

[ALEKSANDR kUTS]

And only Klimov knows how ........))

[Revival]

After reading the urapatriot comments, the question arose: I correctly understood what is proud and puffed up by the fact that we are such a superpower that without yao we can’t pull Japan as well?
That all attempts are only for the presence of Yao !?
This is called "raised" the army and the navy !?

[I am not a robot]

Without Yao, the United States did not pull Vietnam, Afghanistan and this is a superpower
and where did you see the urapatriotic comments, here they mainly write how Japan captured the Kuril Islands, and they put other pluses on them, or write what is written in the training manual

[Revival]

Yes, just as not a topic about some kind of conflict, and not with the United States or China, but with someone second-rate, this is how it begins, and we hit yao and that's when ...

And without Yao, at least with Japan can we?
the question arises.
Or forever, they won't come to us because we have yao.
And if it weren't, then that's it?
This is superpower, precisely and only in Yao !?

And according to the manual, write yourself since you have it

[Roman_vh]

And why do we need without nuclear weapons. You weakly decided to take. If a country is attacked, you can (and should) respond by all available means. 58 army was enough for Georgians, tomatoes for Erdogan (for now). Now, if they don't understand.
And Timokhin. And the Americans need arrivals to their territory for some kind of cross-eyed? Or do you still think that they rrrraz and all of us at once and will fuck? What if not?

[Looking for]

In the USSR, for such "opuses" at best, they were "planted". At worst, they were shot. But "democratic" Russia is not the USSR.

[timokhin-aa]

And they played out until June 22, 1941. I see you want it too, right?

[evgen1221]

Lord, again five minutes of hatred. What kind of war, why did she resist the island densely populated Japan? They would rather wait for the next revolution in our country (they, unlike scrapers and from the knees of those who do not have analogs in the world, live well and can afford to wait, and then calmly occupy territories (and even then they only as a maritime zone is needed, and geostrategically, the Americans of the Kuril Islands are more in need of what and whine but through Japanese puppets, because the yapps are still in the status of occupied territories.

[geologist]

It is sad indeed and unpleasant that our diesel submarines are so blind and toothless against the predators of modern times. The Kurils themselves are not stones, but a real pearl and a gift from our ancestors for us, unlucky ones. My sister recently visited the Kuril Islands and sent a lot of photos with a pretty decent tourist environment. In the late 70s, I was in Kunashir and rubbed my feet to calluses while walking from the village to the magnificent caldera of an extinct volcano. Today there is jeeping on Kruzaks and beautiful sidewalks made of modern tiles with hot water pools.

[I am not a robot]

how do you know that you are blind and toothless, or maybe vice versa

[geologist]

Well Duc, he says, shta chased moose on a loaf, and the loaf is my favorite submarine for active recreation in the game instead of the tanchigs, which are fed up. We take more USET-s, some granite, a couple of squalls and 8 anti-ship missiles. You go to the AUG and throw 6 wake axes in the center with an offset to the left. The Roosevelts walk in the center and in a few tens of minutes he will draw a beautiful question mark in the sea with his wake. My hounds will grab onto the wake and end it, and PLURs will fall on me and a flock of MK48 torpedoes will come out. I give one granite to meet and a flock of piranhas, clinging to it and breaking each other's control cables, will rush back from "activating on their Knoxes and Blackknaps, and I will fight off the PLURs with acoustic traps and a spiral carousel at depths from 100 to 600 m and go home.

[I am not a robot]

who says who are you answering, and what kind of nonsense you wrote

[geologist]

Timokhin says that the author of the article, during a cruise on a submarine of Project 949A in the naval jargon "baton", discovered a submarine of the Los Angeles or "elk" type. I wrote to you in slang, thinking that you understand it; "... I drove moose on a loaf" that is, it would be a sin not to believe the author with such a maritime practice. Next, I described to you an episode from the computer game Cold Water Epic Mod 212 - a sudden attack by the AUG-a submarine of project 949A (baton) with the sinking of the aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt using torpedoes with a diameter of 630 mm, which are guided to the wake by means of appropriate sensors. Only Russia, as the successor of the USSR, has such torpedoes, although there are rumors that NATO members will soon have them as well. After the attack, an episode of protection of the Project 949A submarine from PLUR (anti-submarine guided missiles) is described, which fly to the point of the alleged location of the submarine and drop homing torpedoes near the boat. Another episode is the use of a decoy target of the Granite torpedo as bait for the Mk48 torpedoes, as a result of which they turned 360 degrees and randomly aimed at their Blackknap-class cruisers and Knox-class destroyers. This theoretical battle dates back to about the mid-80s, more precisely to 1984-86. At present, these destroyers and cruisers have been decommissioned in the United States, but the aircraft carrier T. Roosevelt is still in service and took an active part in the Persian Gulf War.

[I am not a robot]

except for cons and there is nothing to answer

[Evgeny Ivanov_5]

I have always said that Russia is a colossus with feet of clay and foreign policy should be quieter than water below the grass. To withdraw into ourselves like China in due time and to deal with ourselves and our economy, but for now we even buy socks and panties in China.

[Victor Leningradets]

Do not give!
Russia is the main bonus of the coming war. The verdict of the Anglo-Saxons sounds: China must be weakened (slaves are needed), and Russia must be destroyed (ANY territories are needed)

[Evgeny Ivanov_5]

Nonsense. And the war will not be tomorrow and there is no need to transfer what you read about the Great Patriotic War and Nazism into modern realities. And everything depends on the lack of wisdom of the leadership. Unfortunately, the modern cannot get out of the blinders of the cold war.

[Roman_vh]

Where are you made like that?

[I am not a robot]

so Americans buy socks and panties in China, where they climb
and who are you to decide what to do in Russia

[Boa kaa]

Quote: FRoman1984

but why are torpedoes half a century old?

Have you heard the thread about Physics, case, ET-2? Another thing is that there are still few of them and the rate of production is low. So it is the fault of the promov and the organizers of the industry, not the naval ones. They are forced people: what Mother Motherland handed them, so they go to the seas and walk ...
AHA.

[timokhin-aa]

Everything is much worse.

The physicist is a good torpedo, but it does not have normal telecontrol, which means that in a duel it will go to hindrances, or slowly and sadly drag along with a wretched towed reel.
The second point is that none of the boats that are armed with it took prize-winning shooting. This means that something was done with the torpedoes in production.
Practical shot A physicist is expensive, it is impossible to master it because of this.

UET-1 (not ET-1) - a good idea of ​​a torpedo, but there is NO TELECONTROL AT ALL. Not ordered.

The case is not a torpedo, it is an OCD, which has not yet produced a finished torpedo.

[I am not a robot]

that is, a torpedo with a coil goes to interference, but does not go away with hose control, is this in reality or you have exaggerated again

[silver_roman]

If so, then be the second tsushima. It's always like this with us: to even look at the composition of the army units, at the fleet of equipment, the Air Force at the beginning of the Second World War, and the enemy was admitted to Moscow, then there was Kharkov, but then we learned how to fight. In the 45th, the Japanese in China were completely smashed into the trash, the experience was. And for 75 years of the world I have again forgotten how to fight. Probably the fleet is assessed in terms of the number of vehicles, not efficiency. Do you have 6 boats? will be soon. OK? OK! and everything else is on the drum. poorly...

[rat07]

Quote: Aleksandr21

in Japan, talks (at a very high level) about the revision of the policy in the field of the use of the Atom, including for military purposes

For a long time they have everything.

[eehnie]

Yes, project 877-636 is pretty much outdated.

I can not agree on this. Many times the word "outdated" is used too easily.

Everything can be improved. Everyone with technical knowledge knows it. It is not right, and it is not fair to use the word outdated, to refer to equipment that can be perfectly updated. Otherwise, everything can be considered outdated.

I only apply this word to the equipment with some structural limitation (weakness) that makes not possible the update until modern standards. And this is not the case.

[Dimon Krasnodar]

Quote: SovAr238A

Quote: Dimon Krasnodar

In fact, Japan has no missile defense system, as well as an echeloned air defense system.
In case of aggravation and conflict between our countries, the fate of Japan is not enviable. In fact, everything will be decided in a couple of days of the conflict. The main trump card of the Russian Federation is a missile strike from air carriers with missiles х555, х34, х101, and launching missiles from the territory of Russian airspace. Predicted salvo of up to a hundred missiles in the first wave. Carriers Tu-95, Tu-160, Tu22m3 and m3m. Targets in Japan 5-6 largest oil depots and naval bases.
Thus, the country of the rising sun will find itself in energy isolation for a long time and will not be able to continue military operations.
The task of the Russian Navy, the defense by all forces of the areas of the Gulf of Peter the Great and Kamchatka, is simply to hold out for several days. Air defense in the areas of bases in the Far East, echeloned from the Japanese Air Force, we will fight off without problems.
Here is a real forecast of hostilities.
And I did not count the calibers on the nuclear submarine, they can also give a good blow to sensitive places in the infrastructure of Japan.

Have you ever read the articles of a very literate person named Bongo (aka Linnik)?
Well, I’m asking you to understand the level of your "hat-bearing" ...
Although, judging by the ciras, this is the reincarnation of RomarioAgro ...
The same "mathematician of the" alternative reality "....

DEAR you give me for my analysis what that assessment without a worthy justification why I am wrong.
Therefore, if I am wrong, then give a decent assessment of why, put everything on the shelves, argue your position. No need to invent various clichés and make fun of, give a decent answer, if you can, of course.

[KJIETyc]

Quote: timokhin-aa

Katz suggests preparing to fight for real, and not like now.
What does not suit you personally in this idea?

Will you go to the front ranks in the bayonet against a country with a population of 127 million, to which all and sundry will bring cartridges in the presence of TNW? I strongly doubt it. Why not use it in defense against a full-scale invasion? And you didn’t think that the thread would stretch to the country 404, while you “titties” crumple with the country of the rising sun, at least? Maybe, of course, you are a fan of hammering in bolts and tightening nails, I do not know.

[alexandr_vd]

I, of course, am not an expert in shipbuilding.
But if we get good nuclear reactors - small-sized, then why not "build" them into our electric, not diesel, submarines? Remove the diesel engine, increase the battery capacity. batteries and "insert" add. weapons - missile silos. Let the reactor be of relatively low power - but it will be able to constantly charge the batteries and, thereby, provide the electric motors and other current electrical needs ...
And it will really be an air-independent power plant!
Constant speed under water will be lower than on a "pure" nuclear submarine. But nothing prevents short-term acceleration in forced mode. And the "waiting-sneaking" move may not be high. In this case, recharging can also be carried out. The noise level in comparison with the nuclear submarine will be reduced due to the significantly reduced power of the nuclear power plant.
The displacement of such submarines should not differ significantly from diesel ones - due to the rejection of such archaic propellers.
These should be ideal submarines for the protection of coastal (in the area of ​​several thousand km) territories.
Unlike any supposedly "air-independent" Western / Japanese idiots.

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Finally, someone openly said that Varshavyanka was cheap, useless junk ...
Tired of listening to illiterate nonsense of mediocre journalists about "unique black holes" ...

[Jekakiller258]

In the case of Japan, the most appropriate would be to use medium-range missiles. And the role of the fleet, namely the submarine, to put it mildly, is not entirely clear.

[link]

Y-yes ... The author of the article will face the fate of Leskov's Lefty, who returned from a trip abroad and tried to convey to the officials of the Russian Empire that "in England, guns have not been cleaned with chiseled bricks for a long time." As for films and videos about the armament of the army and navy, they are filmed specifically for the population, not particularly competent in this area. The main thing is to suggest that "the armor is strong and our tanks are fast." And, judging by the jingoistic comments on social networks, it is quite successful.

[AML]

Quote: Black5Raven

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Do you think Russia and China fundamentally cannot conclude a mutual assistance agreement?

I would remind all those who rely on the Chinese "brothers" that if something happens, they themselves would not mind getting a part of the Far East. Damansky and other border conflicts will not let you lie.
And unlike Japan or Australia, no one will come to the rescue.

And why does China need this? You will see a map of where the Chinese live in the bulk. What kind of hemorrhage is there for China with an incomprehensible outcome? Yes, I will believe more in a hack with India. Well, if you are promoting the idea of ​​the United States that it is necessary to create a split between the Russian Federation and China, then the topic of your sayings is understandable and fits well into the given narrative.

[Alexey Lamonov]

All the military, to one degree or another, regardless of the state, are suicide bombers. And the enemy's (probable) boats are also clearly visible on the screens of our SAC. So, we are not toothless either. The main thing is to know what to die for.

[seziomoff.s]

Tale of the Vienna Woods. I like theorists, they know how to beautifully present what they know little about. "Illumination by buoys", "shadow sector", "towed antenna", "lack of weapons", "faces of suicide bombers".
It would be nice for you to go to a couple of military services under the command of a type like Admiral Yu. Kirillov, after that you can write about the submarine fleet. Well, it's just ridiculous.

[Dzafdet]

I think that the General Staff has a scenario for launching massive nuclear strikes against Japan in the event of a conflict. And no Japanese fleet will help. But the boats need to be brought to mind.

[Pavel Gennadievich]

And that since the invention of Ritsa, nothing better has been invented? Are they just starting to introduce digital processing of the HAC?