Metro attack: an alternative course of events

171

Quite recently, there was a case of beating in the Moscow metro of a young man who stood up for a girl. This situation has raised a wave of discussions in the media and in the power structures. We can say that this time everything ended relatively well - the girl who interceded for the girl was provided with the necessary medical care and deserved honors, the thugs will receive long prison terms.

But let's imagine that the development of the situation in the metro would have happened according to slightly different scenarios.



1 script


A young man would have a legally wearable weapon limited lesion (OOP), in other words - "traumatic".

After he noticed the company's defiant and aggressive behavior, their harassment and threats towards women, he reprimanded them.

Metro attack: an alternative course of events

Then the situation developed rapidly - the thugs switched to a new victim, verbal threats were immediately made about mutilation, murder. All this was accompanied by a movement towards the young man. One of the attackers put his hand into his pocket, trying to remove the knife (or pretending to have one).

The young man acted quickly and efficiently. Taking into account the threats expressed, the movement in his direction and the possible presence of weapons, he immediately took out the pistol, pulled the bolt, loudly and clearly pronounced the command "stop, I will shoot."

This did not stop the attackers, they tried to surround the defender, one of them pulled out a knife. Considering that the knife posed a mortal threat, the defender performed "Mozambique" - fired two shots to the body and one to the head of the attacker with a knife. This did not stop the other two attackers; they were probably under the influence of drugs.

The defender fired four more shots: two at the body of each of the attackers. One of the attackers immediately fell, the second tried to continue the attack, as a result of which he received two more bullets in the lower limbs.

As soon as the aggression stopped, the young man immediately called an ambulance and police officers.

As a result of self-defense, the attacker with a knife received grievous bodily harm - he lost an eye. The second received penetrating wounds to the stomach and lung. The third attacker died when one of two bullets fired in the legs punctured his femoral artery.

2 script


The young man would have with him a folding knife, not related to melee weapons, which can be carried without any licenses and permits.

After he noticed the company's defiant and aggressive behavior, their harassment and threats towards women, he reprimanded them.


Then the situation developed rapidly - the thugs switched to a new victim, verbal threats about injury and murder were immediately expressed. All this was accompanied by a movement towards the young man. One of the attackers pulled out a knife.

Considering the numerical superiority of the attackers, the fact that one of them was armed with a knife, as well as the lack of self-defense in the defending weapon, he decides to use a knife for self-defense. One of the attackers, armed with a knife, rushed forward and tried to stab the defender in the stomach. He intercepted the hand and, in turn, struck several blows in the area of ​​the upper chest and neck of the enemy. The first attacker dropped the knife and ran to the side, he was bleeding heavily.

The other two tried to go in from the side, grabbing the defender by the arms, and take the knife away from him. However, the young man broke free and delivered several blows to the body of each of the attackers, after which they stopped the attack.

As soon as the aggression stopped, the young man immediately called an ambulance and police officers.

As a result of self-defense, the attacker died with a knife from blood loss, two others received penetrating wounds into the abdominal cavity - one of them had his spleen removed.

3 script


The young man would not have had any weapons or items to use in this capacity, but he was a Candidate Master of Sports (CCM) professional boxer.

After he noticed the company's defiant and aggressive behavior, their harassment and threats towards women, he reprimanded them.


Then the situation developed rapidly - the thugs switched to a new victim, verbal threats about injury and murder were immediately expressed. All this was accompanied by a movement towards the young man. One of the attackers pulled out a knife.

The defender struck a series of quick blows to the head and body of the attackers, after which the aggression stopped due to the loss of consciousness by the attackers, the young man immediately called an ambulance and police officers.

As a result of self-defense, one of the attackers died, two others received severe concussions and fractures of the skull bones.

Aftermath


And now the question is, what consequences would the implementation of one of the above scenarios lead to?

Would there be headlines in the newspapers about interceding for the girl?

Would representatives of the authorities and the public honor him?

Hardly.

Most likely, we would see headlines like “Another shooting in the Moscow metro”, “Stabbing with shooting in the Moscow metro”, “Three were shot in the Moscow metro”, and everything in the same spirit. And the defender so effectively would not receive honors and awards: at best, an article for exceeding self-defense, and at worst, more serious articles of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation (Criminal Code of the Russian Federation).

And the same journalists who are now writing laudatory praises to the young man who interceded for the girl, would write about the need for new restrictions on the carrying of weapons, prohibitions, tightening and other things in the same rhetoric.

Self-defense is a rather specific situation. Everything happens very quickly. In accordance with the rules of any fight, the one who strikes first has a significantly greater chance of winning. It is logical that after a strong blow to the jaw or head, no self-defense may follow, but a visit to the intensive care unit or the morgue will follow.

But, from the point of view of the servants of the law, the one who struck first is most often to blame.

Although, in fact, Russian legislation is quite adequate and does not require waiting for an attack, but calls for an assessment of all the circumstances of self-defense, in reality it is often easier for law enforcement agencies to find the one who struck first guilty and not understand all the intricacies of the incident.

How many of these situations occur throughout the country, those that do not fall into the camera lenses and do not receive the attention of the press?

There is no such information. But there are official statistics from the Ministry of Internal Affairs, according to which in 2020, as a result of criminal encroachments, more than 22 people died, the health of over 000 people was seriously injured.


How many cases of self-defense in these statistics are qualified not even as an excess, but as premeditated murder, attempted murder or grievous bodily harm?

How many criminal episodes have ended successfully for criminals because their victims were afraid to exceed this invisible and intangible threshold of "exceeding self-defense"?

In a situation with an incident in the Moscow metro, criminals should get the most out of it, although this is far from a fact - time will pass, the noise will subside, an appeal will be filed, and you see, it's not an attempted murder, but petty hooliganism.

And how are such crimes qualified in cases when they do not come under the attention of the press?

How often do the attackers, who have often crippled their victims physically and mentally, get really serious sentences?

In general, sometimes one gets the impression that the state is extremely loyal to inveterate criminals - rapists, pedophiles, murderers, but at the same time ordinary citizens who have broken the law, sometimes even by accident, are punished to the maximum.

The reason?

In the subconscious sympathy of some law enforcement and judicial officers with criminals, what is called “merging with the crime,” or does the money from the common fund fall into the right hands?

No, hardly - who needs low-level criminals, are they not thieves "in law"?

Or maybe the primitive cycle "stole - drank - to jail" is just convenient for law enforcement agencies?

Criminals sentenced to relatively short terms again commit crimes without being distinguished by special intelligence, they quickly fall on the hook of law enforcement agencies, again receive a short sentence, and so on in a circle, maintaining the statistics of detection at a high level ...

Conclusions


What conclusions can be drawn from all of the above?

1. Radical steps must be taken to decriminalize self-defense. The concept of "excess of self-defense" should disappear in principle - either the fact of the attack is confirmed, and then the defender has the right to inflict any harm on the aggressor, or it is not self-defense. And first of all, it is necessary to implement this in relation to situations with the penetration of criminals into the home. There are simply no other options. Effective self-defense can only be preventive. In other cases, the advantage is kindly given to the criminals.

2. It is necessary to strengthen responsibility for the commission of violent crimes, predominantly by repeat offenders and especially by a group of persons - they should have no future, life-long isolation without options, and ideally the death penalty.

For example, returning to the incident in the subway, does anyone have the illusion that after five, ten or twenty years in prison, these geeks will become normal people?

No, this is just a reprieve until they come out and maim or rape someone else. The oldest of the attackers is now 26 years old - after 20 years in prison it will be an adult, seasoned, 46-year-old, embittered, not socialized man.


3. It is necessary to ensure the maximum openness of the judicial system - all cases of violent crimes should be posted on a specialized Internet resource - this will both reduce the likelihood of unfair conviction for "exceeding" self-defense, and promptly draw public attention to unnecessarily lenient sentences handed down to rapists and murderers. In addition, public disclosure of the identities of convicted rapists and murderers will allow people to understand who lives next to them - I think many would like to know if a previously convicted pedophile or murderer will settle next to them.

And this is not a complete list of measures that need to be taken to decriminalize our society and increase the protection of ordinary citizens from criminal encroachments.

PS Leaving in danger


Separately, it is worth mentioning those males who fled to the opposite end of the subway car. I am sure that the identity of most of them is quite realistic to establish. After that, it is necessary to weed out minors, those who are old or sick, and identify physically strong individuals who are capable of intervening in a fight in that situation. Then it is necessary to involve them under article 125 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation - "Leaving in danger". Let it be a fine, but the message itself should be quite obvious.
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  1. +27
    20 October 2021 15: 07
    Great article. The author is my respect.
    1. +29
      20 October 2021 15: 11
      A really alternative version - The young man rips off his clothes, and there laughing :

      1. +39
        20 October 2021 15: 30
        Why only THREE scenarios?
        If you have imagination, there can be MUCH more of them:
        1) All the metro passengers had short-barrels, and one even had a hunting rifle in a case .... The next morning in the newspapers - a ready-made Hollywood script "Crazy shootout in the subway" ...
        2) The attackers had guns and the guy who had risen to the defense was immediately riddled ... In the morning in the newspapers - an obituary.
        .....
        128) In an ideal world, three guests of the capital entered an absolutely clean subway car, where only the seats were occupied. While one, with an accent, recited lyric poetry, two were handing out flowers to women. Then everyone moved to the station with emotion, climbed to the top, where they were greeted by the blue sky, warm breeze and smiling faces of passers-by ...)))
        PS I like the last scenario the most. It is a pity that, like the author, it is fantastic ...
        1. +23
          20 October 2021 16: 01
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          Why only THREE scenarios?

          If in Cooper's opinion, the Redskins were distinguished by their laconicism. You have a stream of fantasy. But the article is serious. And the author's suggestions are reasonable and correct. But the "redskins" decided to chat up good offers. How familiar it all is.
          I fully support the author.
          1. +23
            20 October 2021 16: 09
            I have two short scars on my lower lip. Not in the subway, but in the dormitory he stood up for the girl. I am not a bully and I do not own techniques. I ran into a boxer and his korefan. But then I didn’t ponder “if I had a Lewis machine gun with me” ... I didn’t. I just acted as taught at school, as taught by my father.
            PS I have never been fond of alternative history. I live in reality.
            1. +9
              20 October 2021 16: 25
              Quote: Leader of the Redskins
              I have two short scars on my lower lip.

              It does not matter. The main thing is that the girl was protected?
              .
              Quote: Leader of the Redskins

              But then I didn’t ponder “if I had a Lewis machine gun with me” ... I didn’t.

              You did not understand the author when he listed the options for the development of events in the metro. From each option, conclusions are drawn on the basis of which the author makes his proposals on changing the legislation.
              Quote: Leader of the Redskins
              I live in reality.

              And on health. hi
        2. +5
          20 October 2021 16: 28
          And here's another scenario. The young man decides to show himself as a hero, but this company has a legally acquired short-barrel and they bring him down. And given that the subway car is not large, someone else is wounded or knocked down by accidental fire. Well, suppose young Rimbaud really suddenly grabs the barrel and knocks them down first, or perhaps someone else accidentally wounds or kills. The camera in the carriage shows that the young criminal attacked and shot three people. He has no mitigating circumstances. Verbal skirmish is not a mitigating circumstance. At the very first station, the outfit twists him and he travels for at least 15 years. Or the outfit decides not to risk it and knocks down the armed killer outright. And the dead hero is solemnly taken to the morgue. fellow
          And now for another most unheroic option. The guy goes to the panic button in the car and informs the driver about the situation. And at the next station, an outfit comes up to the car and knits brawlers. Distances between stations - 3 minutes. Well, maximum 5. During this time, these brawlers will not have time to do anything in this case. As a result, the guy goes home, the rowdy goes to the cell. But this is boring, right? There is no action, emotion, drive, excitement. Do you need to fire in a crowded place? belay
          PANCAKE, CHILDREN, HOW ARE YOU BORED WITH THIS RANGE. Play the console and calm down already.
          1. +10
            21 October 2021 10: 16
            I totally agree. How many of you go to a shooting gallery and practice pistol shooting? And in high-speed shooting? As a professional military man who fought in conditions requiring the rapid use of different types of weapons, I can say that this requires clear skills. Even shooting from three meters away at several moving targets, you can put bullets past and hit the crowd. What happened next?
            And a man who shoots once every five years and according to the standards for weapons exams? How much will go to the crowd? No need to fantasize about your skills. Button and only button. Otherwise, an unpredictable situation. From the word in general.
        3. +3
          21 October 2021 19: 37
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          Why only THREE scenarios?

          In reality, even if he had a machine gun, everything would have happened in the same way, because while there was a squabble, one came up (like there was an interview with the victim) and immediately struck a blow from the side, and as I understood, he immediately broke a bone in the eye area, there is not just a short barrel or a knife to reach, he did not have time to blink, as he was in knock out. in fact, the situation was settled by the one who informed the driver, and the police were called, which, on duty, must pacify such people.
      2. +13
        20 October 2021 15: 43
        Sarcasm, of course, it's good if you are Valuev or F. Emelianenko! You go to the subway and then you had to intercede. But what if only nerds or women with children are traveling in the carriage? They will start firing from pistols in all directions, they will not hit the brawlers, and they will definitely not miss the random onlookers. Panic buttons with automatic door locking should work, the driver is obliged to call an outfit with dogs, let the station accept, a full carriage of witnesses.
      3. +1
        20 October 2021 15: 53
        Quote: Finches
        A really alternative version - The young man rips off his clothes, and there laughing :


        Your mockery is inappropriate.
        1. +13
          20 October 2021 16: 26
          The problem is on the face, and some on the face ... The problem of society and legislation ...
          But there is one more. Fewer and fewer children go in for sports every year. They don't even want to study for free. The guys went to schools to somehow popularize hand-to-hand combat and Greco-Roman wrestling, all in vain. The younger generation is not eager to engage in martial arts. A pistol or knife used for its intended purpose will lead to the dock, and soon almost no one will be able to adequately respond to the aggression of the southern aksakals ... And how, in Dagestan, Chechnya, South and North Ossetia, Kabardino-Balkaria, almost all young men are actively engaged from an early age. And then someone is very surprised that they arrange non-regulation and so on. etc. What's so surprising here? Just imagine if somewhere in the Kursk region, for example, dozens of masters of sports and hundreds of CCMs in sambo lived in each settlement, and from the age of three all the boys were on the tatami ... There would be a lot of vandalism and crimes in these villages .. ?
          Who was at the competition in the coming years? There are only a few Russians ...
          1. +11
            20 October 2021 17: 38
            So after all, not everyone is interested in sports. And the mountaineers, due to their limited interests and idleness, have one way to the gym until they come of age. And then hello, Russia, I came. And only fellow countrymen or relatives will attach.
          2. +23
            20 October 2021 18: 39
            Quote: Doccor18
            Who was at the competition in the coming years? There are only a few Russians ...

            I was. And as a participant and as a trainer. And chu?
            You did not understand the main message of the article. The established practice of applying Art. 114 of the Criminal Code, makes it criminal through and through. Because it actually prohibits that very self-defense. By and large, being an article that protects criminals from law-abiding citizens. Yeah.
            1. +1
              20 October 2021 20: 30
              Quote: Lannan Shi
              You did not understand the main message of the article.

              Quote: Doccor18
              The problem of society and legislation ...
              But there is one more.

              Apparently you did not understand the meaning of my comment.

              Quote: Lannan Shi
              I was. And as a participant and as a trainer. And chu?

              And How? Were there a lot of blonde guys there?
            2. -1
              21 October 2021 13: 38
              Quote: Lannan Shi
              it actually prohibits that very self-defense.

              It prohibits the intentional infliction of grievous bodily harm committed in excess of the limits of necessary defense and no more.
              1. +4
                21 October 2021 20: 16
                Quote: Anatoliy
                It prohibits the intentional infliction of grievous bodily harm committed in excess of the limits of necessary defense and no more.

                Briefly if. Judging by the video, I would have handled this trio without any problems. On one condition. That I will cut down immediately and harshly. For each one, 1 beat, and no more. And this is ..... Fractures, tears, shaking. Those. minimum bodily moderate severity. For the playground is 2 by 2, my physique is by nature fragile, the weight of rams, and any blow missed, especially from the back, can easily lead to a float, which in a battle with such gouges is equal to a hospital or a cemetery. And these moments completely exclude beautiful Hollywood dances, forcing them to act as pragmatically as possible. Leaving behind the back extremely unable to move, and reducing the time of the fight to a minimum.
                And now a question. On whose side is the Criminal Code, that a girl who is in such a situation will have to make a choice where exactly she will go. To a hospital, or to jail, if, nevertheless, he can not get to that very hospital herself, but send a criminal there. Excuse me, little paw, but this article does not even remotely smell of protecting the interests of law-abiding citizens, it is more like a direct prohibition to defend oneself. Yeah.
                1. 0
                  21 October 2021 20: 44
                  Quote: Lannan Shi
                  Excuse me, little paw, but this article does not even remotely smell of protecting the interests of law-abiding citizens, it is more like a direct prohibition to defend oneself. Yeah.

                  Excuse me laponka, but protecting the interests of law-abiding citizens is Article 37. Necessary defense. Yeah.
                  1. +5
                    21 October 2021 23: 11
                    Quote: Anatoliy
                    Excuse me laponka, but protecting the interests of law-abiding citizens is Article 37. Necessary defense.

                    There is no defense necessary and evasive. Sometimes it's just defense. Here is the case. Take this bunch of policemen right away, before the start of the fight, it’s even problematic for them to sew the administrative office. After the first blow - infliction of light bodily. And this is the maximum maximum that could be obtained. Thousand and 10 fine. And then .... Not a fact. But stop the train in the tunnel, for a few minutes, which in general is an ordinary case, it could well have reached the corpse. They do not carry such utyrk statements in their pockets - I have decided to beat 1 passenger in this carriage, cripple two, or kill three. And because that guy was simply doomed, either to a hospital, or to get under investigation. For if he had cut them down at once, he would have been put on trial. For to prove that these ****** will maim or kill him, in principle, it is impossible, until they have killed / maimed. And being a corpse is a little difficult to defend. And therefore ... The article on the limits of self-defense is thoroughly criminal. And its only goals are the protection of criminals and the transformation of normal people into a cowardly herd that does not even have the right to defend itself. That's all. For explaining that the water is wet, and sitting down on a fire with bare booty is a little painful ... Not my hobby.
                    1. -3
                      22 October 2021 12: 29
                      Quote: Lannan Shi
                      There is no defense necessary and evasive. Sometimes it's just defense.

                      Section 37. Necessary Defense
                      1. It is not a crime to inflict harm on an encroaching person in a state of necessary defense, that is, while protecting the personality and rights of the defender or other persons ...
                      That is, do you agree with this wording?
                      Quote: Lannan Shi
                      The article about the limits of self-defense is criminal through and through.

                      Your right to think so, but the article on the limits of necessary defense in the Criminal Code did not appear from a good life.
            3. 0
              22 October 2021 15: 08
              Quote: Lannan Shi
              By and large, being an article that protects criminals from law-abiding citizens. Yeah.

              Since the time of tsarism, self-defense was considered a state crime. A person could not take revenge or defend himself, unlike the order in Europe. As soon as at the end of the 19th century, robberies on the Volga, the Caucasus and Central Asia stopped or decreased from this practice. Moreover, in a normal society, even in Afghani, criminals are effectively limited in their rights to create a family and earn money. That is, there people who do not fit into the norms of morality are doomed to extinction. In Russia, even prosecutors declare to their relatives that professional thieves and robbers cannot be offended, otherwise the law will side with the thief as he knows his rights and the law better. A friend told me this after he complained to a relative who worked in the prosecutor's office about the open theft from his estate of metal by a local small buyer of metal and hired by him either workers or thieves. So far, since 1991, semi-criminal and criminal elements have been breeding in Russia, and law-abiding citizens are unable to create families or have children. The fate of two ladies is before my eyes. Despite the service, the participation of one in the war and personal acquaintance with the people who ensured the safety of Gerasimov and the planning of operations in Abkhazia, one was forced from despair to move to Turkey, where she enjoys life, she blended into the local culture as an instructor in water sports, she recalls Russia as a nightmare, and the second exists in Moscow as a bird.
          3. +5
            20 October 2021 20: 51
            Quote: Doccor18
            The guys went to schools to somehow popularize hand-to-hand combat and Greco-Roman wrestling, all in vain.

            Which against the same knife are useless for 95% of the population.

            Quote: Doccor18
            A pistol or knife used for its intended purpose will lead to the dock

            Just like their absence. Having accidentally crippled the proud mountaineers, you can also at least sit down. And as much as possible, you can ask the Slavic population that disappeared in the Caucasus.

            Quote: Doccor18
            And then someone is very surprised that they arrange non-regulation and so on. etc.

            Robbery is not born from wrestling and martial arts. And that's not to mention how it happens. I will tell you, most often in a group.
          4. for
            -2
            21 October 2021 00: 59
            Quote: Doccor18
            The guys went to schools to somehow popularize hand-to-hand combat and Greco-Roman wrestling, all in vain

            What a preparation for the new 90m. Maybe enough exercise.
          5. +6
            21 October 2021 17: 44
            uh huh Brazilians are all in football, blacks are in boxing ... because they have no other way up. The Unified State Exam will do or has already done this with our boys. Textbooks do not contain (history) the Stalingrad and Kursk battles. Some kind of (authors and publishers are known) reptile let such textbooks go to schools. They would now go to court and to the prison.
          6. The comment was deleted.
      4. +9
        20 October 2021 19: 17
        Quote: Finches
        A really alternative version - The young man rips off his clothes, and there

        Not a grandmother, but a grandfather!
        You can think of thousands of versions from the field of alternative reality, but all this is nothing more than talk in favor of the poor. Until the law works, until it is uniform for everyone, until corrupt investigators, judges, prosecutors hold their posts, nothing will change. NOTHING.
        1. +5
          21 October 2021 03: 43
          As long as there is capitalism, nothing will change.
          1. -3
            21 October 2021 15: 18
            You probably have a compelling explanation why the level of murders in the USSR exceeded the European average by more than 10 times?
            And the lowest level of violent crimes is in quite capitalist Japan, Canada, Switzerland, Germany, etc.?
    2. +16
      20 October 2021 15: 15
      Quote: Stas1973
      Great article. The author is my respect.

      I agree, at first I thought about the short-barrel again, I wanted to quit reading, but ... I read it. The situation with self-defense, or rather with its excess, must be rethought, including at the legislative level. It goes without saying that the rule "my home is my fortress" should also be introduced; any attack on a residential building should be regarded as a threat to life and should be suppressed accordingly.
      1. +16
        20 October 2021 15: 52
        The article is great! The author has painted everything perfectly.
        According to Scenario No. 1, if there is an average lawyer (not a "bellboy"):
        A year in a pre-trial detention center, then house arrest (subscription) for 1-2 years. The verdict is 3 years. Possibly planing. 300-700 thousand legal costs.
        Let me explain that cases with a firearm are very exciting both for the investigation and the prosecutor's office with the court.
        In the absence of money for defense - from 5 years ... but the sentence is within 1 year.
        According to scenario No. 2 with protection from a year to 2 years of real life.
        In the absence of protection for 5 years ...
        Under scenario number 3, an administrative fine, if there is a qualified defense.
        From 1 year in the absence of protection.

        They will carry them for a long time, for years (on average 3-5 years), even after serving you will always be on the notice, as prone to violence.
        In all cases, the investigator will "break" to confess guilt and active repentance by telling tales about an article about "exceeding self-defense", but if there is a confession, he will immediately re-qualify it for heavier articles and parts.
        The prosecutor's office will gladly support grave and especially grave articles in the case of firearms and stabbing. And from a fight with a fatal outcome will be kicked out.
        When the case goes to court, in principle there will be no acquittal. This is extremely expensive.
        P.S. at the same time, it is better to overwhelm the bully and then sue than the hooligans will kill or mutilate you.
        1. 0
          20 October 2021 16: 11
          But what about Article 282? This is in all three versions, and even defending in a subway car with an injury will not give anything, after the use of the defenders, if one of the attackers had a knife, it would be used, after the threat or use of trauma, and the guy would be stabbed
        2. +15
          20 October 2021 16: 33
          Comments of former citizens of the USSR to the article "Not a single bulletproof vest will protect you from it": the US has named the timing of the selection of a promising line of NGSW weapons to replace the M4 and M16 "
          https://topwar.ru/187962-ot-nego-ne-zaschitit-ni-odin-bronezhilet-v-ssha-nazvali-sroki-vybora-perspektivnoj-linejki-oruzhija-ngsw-dlja-zameny-m4-i-m16.html#comment-id-11856512

          sharp-lad (Oleg) Latvia
          12 October 2021 22: 40
          I stick to the good old rule "You ONLY need a gun to get to the rifle"
          And I would like to become a "proud" owner of something chambered for 6,35 * 15. According to the principle "Just so that not to kill, but to warn. And if it does not help, then specifically warn in the knee." Perhaps, soon, I will make my little dream come true.

          Baron Pardus (Dmitry) USA
          12 October 2021 23: 03
          Sir. Your nobility will not be appreciated. A) According to US law, a warning shot is a crime "Reckless discharge of a firearm" This is a 4th grade Felonie for which you can easily get shocked up to 3 years in a jail + up to 25kilo bucks. Why? And because you will be told, "Since you had time to fire a warning shot, then there was no danger to your life."
          B) The second reason is the result of the idiocy of the civil justice system. BY THE LAW, the bandit whom you shot in the knee can judge you for the loss of working capacity. That is, he will say, "I would be happy to do honest work, but the white oppressor shot me in the knee on purpose so that I could not work. This white oppressor deprived me of the chance for a normal life. This white oppressor should COMPENSATE ME FINANCIALLY." And you have a serious chance that you will pay this bandit for the rest of his life. And every time he will drag you to court to take more dough. He, as a "poor, oppressed but original ethnic minority," is entitled to a free lawyer. As a working "White oppressor, using his white privilege" you are not entitled to a free lawyer. Therefore, they will put you on the dough in any case. Either a bandit, or YOUR lawyer, or both.
          Therefore, self-defense courses teach: a) to shoot at the center of mass. b) fire at least 5 shots. c) "Get hysterical / panic" in order to slow down the arrival of the cops and the ambulance by at least 5-10 minutes. The cops and the ambulance must get the corpse. Firstly, the corpse cannot say that he, they say, came to you to tell you about our savior Isa from Nazareth, and you, the white oppressor, for no reason at all started shooting (there were incidents, by the way), and secondly, the corpse will not be able to judge you so you compensated him for his "loss of working capacity" (although he never worked in his life).
          Therefore, it is easier and easier to just kill the attacker on you, than then drag around the courts and pay lawyers.

          Draw your own conclusions.
          1. 0
            22 October 2021 08: 40
            I have to add, because not everyone will go to the source:
            the second one has a mustache (and even several times more), which the first one dreams of.
            And he knows how to use everything.

            I am silent about the conclusions now, tk. received.......
        3. for
          +1
          21 October 2021 01: 06
          Quote: Civil
          According to Scenario No. 1, if there is an average lawyer (not a "bellboy"):

          According to Scenario No. 1, part 1, the attackers have 3 injuries.
          1. 0
            21 October 2021 06: 45
            Quote: for
            According to Scenario No. 1, part 1, the attackers have 3 injuries.

            They will look at the body of the deceased from a gunshot, and not by the number of injuries.
        4. 0
          21 October 2021 22: 24
          Quote: Civil
          According to Scenario No. 1, if there is an average lawyer (not a "bellboy"):
          A year in a pre-trial detention center, then house arrest (subscription) for 1-2 years. The verdict is 3 years. Possibly planing. 300-700 thousand legal costs.
          Let me explain that cases with a firearm are very exciting both for the investigation and the prosecutor's office with the court.
          In the absence of money for defense - from 5 years ... but the sentence is within 1 year.
          According to scenario No. 2 with protection from a year to 2 years of real life.
          In the absence of protection for 5 years ...
          Under scenario number 3, an administrative fine, if there is a qualified defense.
          From 1 year in the absence of protection.
          Conclusion: to "blame" enemies tightly, is it better from the back, do not disturb the organs?
      2. +15
        20 October 2021 15: 53
        author "fellow" took the topic away from the national question.
      3. +6
        20 October 2021 16: 01
        I support. And the fact that there are only three scenarios doesn't change anything. Any normal person understands that Andrei did not set himself the goal of talking about how it could be. These three scenarios are a starting point for talking about what to do to reduce these crimes. The conclusions, in my opinion, are absolutely correct. How to evaluate whether a person has exceeded self-defense or not? If they threaten to cripple or kill three thugs (and those in the photo have just such an appearance), then according to the law, it turns out, it is necessary to wait until they prove the reality of their intentions?
      4. +2
        20 October 2021 16: 49
        In-in ... The case was, in the area, a long time ago. One pretzel, he really is a white-rider, - he grabbed an ax. went to the neighbor to smash the door. Okay, the door is metal, but by the time the cops arrived, he had cut a notable hole there. That neighbor - a hunter, shot with a shot in one, with a jacan in the other - and sat. So, on the mind - to shoot a shot at the legs - and calm down. But they'll go to jail! The result - his daughter stutters. A quarter of a century ago it was
      5. +12
        20 October 2021 16: 59
        "The concept of" exceeding self-defense "should disappear in principle - either the fact of the attack is confirmed, and then the defender has the right to inflict any harm on the aggressor, or it is not self-defense."

        I absolutely agree with the author. Why not create a public movement for amending the Criminal Code on this issue? Personally, I cannot, since from the point of view of Ukraine I am a member of an illegal armed group, a terrorist and a separatist. We need a white and fluffy founder of the movement, preferably from the victims, for example, the beaten hero of the article. Is it really possible only for feminists and cabbage rolls?
        1. +1
          21 October 2021 17: 47
          when the state is inactive, the court of lynching appears.
          1. 0
            21 October 2021 22: 29
            Quote: nznz
            when the state is inactive, the court of lynching appears.
            Lynching takes place in our country when the diaspora on the Priory comes to the secession from which the one who fought back comes out. Will it help you a lot? Or have you put together a group of comrades who will fit into the showdown for you?
            1. +1
              24 October 2021 11: 10
              nice man, but I do not know before. But inside of me is a strange feeling, and desperate. If some kind of XXXX offends my son or wife, honestly, I will sell everything, I will stay in rags, but as a Voroshilov shooter I will take revenge. Bring me not, Lord! Sin, but I will answer for it there. And here I do not consider anyone to be my judge in this case. So they brought up.
              not alone. I had a friend, Kolya. He worked for me, then left and organized his own company. He is one of the former drunks, but he met a wife and gave birth to a child. Life began with happiness. I got cold in front of NG and wandered around the objects. I didn’t go to bed, I suddenly didn’t have time to die. So at the dawn of the 90s, he brought vodka from Arzamas from the factory. on it and began to drink. Lon told me, the car turned over, fight, loss. Brothers chichi gagash him on an arrow. he came. they told him about his wife and daughter. There are many of them, bullish faces. He answered them, “If you believe me, I’ll give up the debt, not all at once, I’ll work it off. But don’t touch my wife and child. I’ll sit by the house, I’ll turn into a snowdrift, if you go out, I’ll hit you with a brick. And no security will help.” They laughed at him, let him go, it was clear that he would give, but the dead would not give anything back. this is the principle I preach.
      6. -1
        20 October 2021 17: 50
        That's what I mean.
    3. -2
      21 October 2021 07: 52
      Quote: Stas1973
      Great article. The author is my respect.

      “It is necessary to ensure the maximum openness of the judicial system - all cases of violent crimes should be posted on a specialized Internet resource - this will both reduce the likelihood of unfair conviction for“ exceeding ”self-defense, and in a timely manner draw public attention to unnecessarily lenient sentences handed down to rapists and murderers. "

      The author apparently is not aware that now the courts are posting sentences in all cases (with rare exceptions stipulated by law) on their websitesYes, sometimes they do, but they do everything.
      1. -1
        21 October 2021 10: 21
        Well, the author rather meant a visual base, easy to use, judicial acts are mostly impersonal, and the photo is not there either
    4. +1
      22 October 2021 10: 10
      Then the situation developed rapidly - the thugs switched to a new victim, verbal threats about injury and murder were immediately expressed. All this was accompanied by a movement towards the young man. One of the attackers pulled out a knife.

      Considering the numerical superiority of the attackers, the fact that one of them was armed with a knife, as well as the lack of self-defense in the defending weapon, he decides to use a knife for self-defense. One of the attackers, armed with a knife, rushed forward and tried to stab the defender in the stomach. He intercepted the hand and, in turn, struck several blows in the area of ​​the upper chest and neck of the enemy. The first attacker dropped the knife and ran to the side, he was bleeding heavily.

      The other two tried to go in from the side, grabbing the defender by the arms, and take the knife away from him. However, the young man broke free and delivered several blows to the body of each of the attackers, after which they stopped the attack.

      As soon as the aggression stopped, the young man immediately called an ambulance and police officers.

      As a result of self-defense, the attacker died with a knife from blood loss, two others received penetrating wounds into the abdominal cavity - one of them had his spleen removed.


      Back in 2002, either the 3rd or 4th, I don’t remember exactly, I personally took out a refusal for a similar situation and agreed with the prosecutor. But there were two moments: there were no cold ones, two serious ones - penetrating into the stomach and neck, in total, the corpses were inflicted on my 4th or 5th attackers, and the knife, which the corpses were inflicted with, was taken away from the attackers. Moreover, the defender immediately disappeared and only came to surrender at night, well, as usual, there was no place to put brands on the attackers. Well, everything happened at the entrance and around it.

      What the press writes should be divided not only in two, but more often, the actual circumstances that took place and that were presented by the press are different. And yes, the necessary defense worked in those years, now I don't face it.

      sorry that I attached my answer to this message, the form to send a response under the article did not respond.
    5. 0
      23 October 2021 12: 12
      The article is good, only you can't go back time
  2. -3
    20 October 2021 15: 08
    Then it is necessary to involve them under article 125 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation - "Leaving in danger". Let it be a fine, but the message itself should be quite obvious.

    Those who escaped, "tse z geyropeytsy" ... like there in Germany, theirs Virgins from emigrants were saved by the uncivilized SERB, it seems.
  3. +1
    20 October 2021 15: 12
    rave. if you have ==== strong like a guy, then well done. most are cowards.
    1. +10
      20 October 2021 15: 22
      strong like a guy, then well done. most are cowards.
      This is due to the fact that good fellows rarely have time to leave offspring, and cowards (with the instinct of self-preservation) more often. Nature laws...)
      1. for
        -3
        21 October 2021 01: 13
        Quote: Trapp1st
        This is due to the fact that good fellows rarely have time to leave offspring, and cowards (with the instinct of self-preservation) more often. Nature laws...)

        I hope you have no children, and no other consonants.
  4. +12
    20 October 2021 15: 13
    Reminded from the old:
    The Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation has registered new requirements for self-defense weapons.

    The Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation has registered new requirements for self-defense weapons. As follows from the document, light flashes when fired from a legal self-defense weapon should not damage the criminal's eyesight, and the sound of the shot should not damage his hearing. Bullets from traumatic pistols should not injure the offender at a distance of 1 meter, and if we are talking about long-barreled weapons, then at 10 meters distance.

    Legal stun guns, already famous for their ineffectiveness, should not injure the criminal's skin, and even more so - change his emotional reaction for more than 10 minutes ..

    The last passage expresses the whole essence of the ministerial order. In fact, Russian citizens are prohibited from upsetting criminals for more than 10 minutes on pain of criminal prosecution.

    There are two outputs:
    1. As in Okinawa, mega-karate is born. We learn the technique "Striking swift finger of Death" - it acts instantly, without having time to upset the enemy.
    2. When a gopnik is run over, we ourselves go over to a counterattack, declare ourselves a criminal and accuse him of upsetting ourselves.
    1. -1
      21 October 2021 18: 19
      Is that really true?
      1. 0
        22 October 2021 10: 30
        ORDER OF THE MINISTRY OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION OF OCTOBER 22, 2008 N 584N "ON APPROVAL OF THE STANDARDS OF PERMISSIBLE IMPACT OF CIVIL WEAPONS AFFECTING SELF-DEFENSE"
        signed by Tatyana Golikova, entered into force on December 1, 2008.
        Registered in the Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation on November 17, 2008 Registration N 12667
        Damaging factor: Impulse discharge of electric current
        Norms of output parameters: the presence of changes in locomotor activity and emotional reaction within no more than 10 minutes from the moment of exposure
  5. +19
    20 October 2021 15: 15
    Tell me about yourself, the author)))
    to attract them under Article 125 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation - "Leaving in danger".

    How would it be - to grind with your tongue, not to roll bags (or rather, not to fight with 3 drunken Dagestanis criminals)
  6. +4
    20 October 2021 15: 15
    Something I do not really understand the options listed by the author. Why couldn't the defender suddenly have a stun gun, for example? And what kind of trauma is it that puts it on the spot? This is how I imagined a traumatic weapon that can cause severe pain or slight injury. No killing the scumbags is definitely the best option for others to think, here the question is purely to arms. I may not understand something? weapons are not my specialty
    1. +8
      20 October 2021 15: 35
      Quote: Klingon
      Something I do not really understand the options listed by the author

      The point is not in the subtleties, these are formalities, the point is that the author wanted to show what would have happened if the most injured party were three attackers.
      1. +7
        20 October 2021 15: 51
        The guy who defended the girl would have received another Article 282, this is among others.
    2. +4
      21 October 2021 10: 45
      And what kind of traumatism is it that puts it on the spot?

      Well, here "Wasp", for example, if in the head, then almost unambiguously.
    3. +1
      21 October 2021 22: 31
      Quote: Klingon
      And what kind of traumatism is it that puts it on the spot?
      It used to be like this, it was banned. Now the effect will be only if you hit the head, but they will be imprisoned for this. Switch to gas weapons, gas wrench, for example.
  7. +2
    20 October 2021 15: 16
    Inspired by: laughing

    How to protect yourself from bullies.
    1. Look into his eyes and tell him to stop.
    2. It is worth knowing how bullies think.
    3. Stand up straight and gaze down at him.
    Etc.

    Here completely.
    https://ru.wikihow.com/защитить-себя-от-хулиганов
    1. +3
      20 October 2021 15: 54
      Damn, p1 and p3, reminded me of "Destroyer" with Stallone and Snipes when the cops tried to arrest him laughing
      1. +1
        21 October 2021 03: 53
        Yeah. My first thought was this movie.
  8. 0
    20 October 2021 15: 18
    now I will catch a bunch of minuses BUT I will still write ... but nothing that before we had hundreds of cases of "attacked and beaten in the subway" and these situations were considered normal, that sometimes they were not even included in the statistics? Now such cases cause outrage and at the same time they always end with a quick police response, of course in the regions the situations are different, but it all depends on the police officers, some are faint-hearted, but in most cases they do everything right ... and yes, I agree with the author that self-defense decriminalization is needed in order to remove a lot of thin moments.
    1. AUL
      +7
      20 October 2021 22: 00
      But I'm wondering why both the article and the comments only consider the situation in the metro? There, of course, the situation is specific - the emergency button, the ghouls will not go anywhere from the carriage, at the nearest station a police squad is already waiting, full of witnesses ... Babbling, just perfect conditions. But what if the same situation happens not in the subway, but in a dark alley? Call 112? Well, first of all, who will let you call there, they will cut you off along with the phone instantly. And secondly, even if you managed to do it imperceptibly, until you are chased through the chain "if you need ... then press ..." you will not get to the police, and there you can run into an answer in the style of "when kill, then call. " And if you succeed in getting the group to leave, then it will come when the ghouls do their job and dump them unhurriedly. Nobody will look for them anymore. No, in the capital, it may be somewhat different, but in the Russian Federation not everyone lives in Moscow yet.
      1. 0
        20 October 2021 22: 20
        Well, they began to clamp less in the alleyways .. and yes .. if the crowd decides to "clamp", then neither the knife nor the barrel will help ..
        1. 0
          21 October 2021 22: 36
          Quote: Barberry25
          Well, they began to clamp less in the alleyways .. and yes .. if the crowd decides to "clamp", then neither the knife nor the barrel will help ..
          The barrel will definitely help if it's ready to apply.
  9. -4
    20 October 2021 15: 20
    Quote: Arzt
    Inspired by: laughing

    How to protect yourself from bullies.
    1. Look into his eyes and tell him to stop.
    2. It is worth knowing how bullies think.
    3. Stand up straight and gaze down at him.
    Etc.

    Here completely.
    https://ru.wikihow.com/защитить-себя-от-хулиганов

    wassat
    In general, the rule "hit first," was voiced by the GDP laughing In the 90s it was very relevant. There is always a leader in the pack, so he must be cracked at the very beginning of the mess and as much as possible
  10. +14
    20 October 2021 15: 22
    Everything will be so, as described by the author of the article. I will say more, it has already happened! When 6 drunk U.R.o.dov tried to attack a woman, and her husband, using a legally registered trauma, knocked out (by chance, because there was a scuffle and he was pushed) the eye of one of the instigators. As a result, a respectable 50-year-old citizen was charged under Art. 111 h. 2. And he was sentenced to 1,5 years (lucky, the judge gave less than the minimum, for it was clear to him who was to blame. All this was not so long ago with my friend.
    1. 0
      20 October 2021 15: 59
      Foam gas can, so that there is no cloud of gas, in which everyone in the car will go nuts.
      The foam flies into the ro ... the faces of the villains and no consequences.
      I myself have trauma and so, that way, I figured out what would happen if I used it. The answer is always obvious - they will be deprived of the right to wear and freedom.
      But we need to defend ourselves somehow, we will defend ourselves.
    2. +7
      20 October 2021 17: 02
      Alexander X (Alexander)
      I completely agree with you that the story with your friend is not fiction. Another thing is that ONE of the whole carriage stood up to protect the girl! The thing is that newcomers behave this way, because WE allow them to do so. They would have tried to do this in Dagestan. Yes, there they would, at best, be emasculated.
    3. +6
      21 October 2021 13: 55
      Alexander, of course, is not familiar with the Case of your friend, but judging by what you have written, you are being misled. The judge did not give below the lowest. H 2 tbsp. 111 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation means up to 10 years. According to Art. 15 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, imprisonment in the Russian Federation is established for a period from two months to twenty years, with the exception of ... further does not apply to the case.
      Those. the minimum term in this case would be 2 months' imprisonment. (Not used in practice - they give a minimum salary of 6 months)
      Condition. According to the Resolution of the Plenum of the Supreme Court of 04.03.1961/XNUMX/XNUMX, to the category of grave crimes (and a grave crime), AS A RULE should not be applied.
      It was evident that there were some circumstances that this "as a rule" did not apply.
      And your friend must have come out of the courtroom straight home. Before the trial, he most likely served his term in a pre-trial detention center or under house arrest. And the judge is also not a bastard - since he has served a year already - get the same year, go home and more
      DON'T GET THERE!
      hi
      PS. But why not an acquittal is a big question for our legislators and their "violation of the limits of necessary defense."
  11. +12
    20 October 2021 15: 25
    identify physically strong individuals capable of intervening in a fight in that situation. After that, it is necessary to involve them under Article 125 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation - "Leaving in danger". Let it be a fine, but the message itself should be quite obvious.

    Author, how many of these "physically strong individuals were there, capable of intervening in a fight in that situation"?
    You yourself have described the consequences of using "self-defense". Now imagine that 5-6 people intervened.
    The headlines will be: "Russian nationalists attacked the" guests of the capital "". “The brown plague struck society,” and so on. etc.
    PS By the way, your version of the use of trauma is, to put it mildly, implausible. With the power of the ammunition that is ALLOWED now for the PLO, serious damage to the attacker can be inflicted ONLY when shooting in the head, which is strictly prohibited with all judicial consequences. But the combat short-barreled, really could radically change the situation.
    ZY1 I have an injury, but the next time I renew my weapon permits, I will get rid of it. The hemorrhoids that the guardsmen arranged for the renewal of permits ABSOLUTELY does not correspond to the "benefits" of its possession.
  12. +6
    20 October 2021 15: 27
    the author here already in PS Someone already sews article 125 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, but in the same conclusions clause 1 is fulfilled or how? These people are like supermen, that would smear the attackers on the car, fly away and they will get nothing for it. Under our laws, you need to be beaten, and then nothing will happen to you, and the attackers will sit down. The main thing is to stay alive.
    1. +7
      20 October 2021 15: 44
      There is a good illustrative dialogue meme:
      - Hello, police, help, they want to kill me
      - That's when they kill - then contact
  13. 0
    20 October 2021 15: 28
    Quote: Trapp1st
    Nature laws...)

    Unfortunately, these are human laws. Most of them, of course.
  14. +1
    20 October 2021 15: 29
    He reprimanded them. Then the situation developed rapidly
    1. +1
      20 October 2021 15: 35
      very fast
  15. +1
    20 October 2021 15: 34
    A movie has been made about how to do the right thing for a long time. But in real life, Danila could have been imprisoned.
  16. +6
    20 October 2021 15: 35
    Cases from the life of people whom I knew a little. The case was still under the Union. One boxer stood up for a girl whom they tried to rape. He killed two with his fist, the third ran away. The result is a 10-year term. The other was killed for hooligan motives by five. He hacked one of the attackers to death with sports equipment, seriously injured another, the rest were scared, left alone. The result is a 7-year term. The attackers on the girl and on the guy were individuals similar to those detained on the resonant incident in the subway.
  17. The comment was deleted.
  18. +9
    20 October 2021 15: 40
    Then it is necessary to involve them under article 125 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation - "Leaving in danger". Let it be a fine, but the message itself should be quite obvious.
    as things stand, a fine is better. It is proved by a puny boy with glasses who fought back a bogey from Armenia, a girl with an injury who was trying to save her friends. It would not be bad to remove their convictions in the light of new trends and imprison those who "suffered" and so on.
    1. +2
      20 October 2021 15: 51
      The situation is absurd ... often the one who defended, defends himself, not hand-to-hand skills are more important / relevant, but a good lawyer !!!
  19. +7
    20 October 2021 15: 49
    What pure, soulful faces in the photo ...
  20. +1
    20 October 2021 15: 51
    Fun in Moscow. Ethnic warfare in all its glory.
  21. +2
    20 October 2021 16: 03
    The article lacks the most important thing - a working solution.
    It is.

    Nothing has a 100 percent guarantee, but this is exactly what it does. I'm buying the third one.
    I have never heard of problems after use, but if CS in the ingredients confuses, buy a purely pepper analogue.
    Works both outdoors and indoors. If in the subway - apply from one and a half to two meters.
    Bits, telescopic arms, quartzukha are all remnants of the past. For using a knife, you are guaranteed to sit. You are a human being, you are in high demand.
    Go to boxing even if you have. Hiding your jaw, keeping your distance, reacting to blows is always and everywhere useful, regardless of whether the above device is available. But never go out with clean hands.
    Always remember - you are alone and you will fight alone.
    1. +1
      21 October 2021 23: 57
      In Germany, a self-defense tool is popular, called Ballistol KO JET, a composition based on cayenne pepper, gives a jet up to 5 meters. Very good at stopping at least angry dogs at least people am
      I bought my wife, because he goes to work in an area where all kinds of Turks, Arabs and other migrants are full sad
  22. +5
    20 October 2021 16: 08
    Only today I wanted to write to the admin about a similar injustice ...
    Here, on the VO website, two people communicate ... one constantly reviles the other and provokes (insults by being considered a creature with unconventional sex. Orientation) .e. the punishment is the same for both. And in my opinion, the provocateur needs to be punished more ... but then I thought and realized that the admins will not change anything anyway, because It's easier for them ... and to establish the degree of guilt - to the administrator (where is the guarantee of its adequacy and impartiality) ...
  23. -3
    20 October 2021 16: 41
    After that, it is necessary to involve them under Article 125 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation - "Leaving in danger".

    I repeat once again - the author himself began with that. that the option for everyone else would be to sit down. Where is the logic?
    PiSi: but in general - it is simply necessary to decriminalize self-defense. In fact, now no one will help anyone for this very reason. I will stand up for an absolutely left-handed dude, who will feed my family while I'm peterik kochum on kiche? This is not self-defense, it was I who wrapped a toadstool for my family. Well, in the case when it concerns me, now there is only one logic - they will still be imprisoned, and therefore "it is better to be judged by three than by four"
  24. -1
    20 October 2021 16: 58
    The article is of course relevant, but a person needs to be prepared for the use of weapons, even a stick. Even in the war. I am not afraid of blood, I am a villager, but it is difficult to use weapons against a person. Maybe a shocker. Although the poetic personality from the left in the photo may be, he hardly got out of the saklya, climbed with difficulty on an old donkey, and went to Moscow to treat a sick heart.
    1. +1
      21 October 2021 04: 07
      This article is not about weapons.
  25. +2
    20 October 2021 17: 37
    In my opinion, the situations are contrived
    In real life, the knife was not used, the author introduced it to polarize the sides, so that questions would not arise.
    In addition, there is a record, which is already good. But this is not always the case.
    If there is no record, but the question immediately arises - who attacked, who defended, or just a mutual fight?
    Prove later how it was.
    What exactly should have been - a panic button on everyone's mobile phone with a call and a map of the place, and the corresponding service in the police - they saw an offense - they immediately started a button on the mobile, and immediately sent the squad. Yes, and in the car it should have been like that. The first reaction should be to call the police, and not grab a trauma, let alone a knife.
    In order not to understand later who did what. If you have to come into physical contact, you will have an argument - that you called the police before the contact, which is very important.
    1. -1
      22 October 2021 23: 33
      When the cops slowed down - the knife was used by a freak
  26. +1
    20 October 2021 17: 47
    , the point is not at the beginning of the article, but at the end. It's about self-defense and articles for exceeding it. Dlb, there are no other words.
  27. +11
    20 October 2021 18: 15
    And now I will tell the story from my own experience. I drove up to the house in the evening in a car with my wife. There were three drunken girls walking along. They threw a can of beer at my head. Has stopped. I got out. I took a garden shovel by the base as self-defense. Handle 50 cm. Like a stick. I came up. Aggression. They kicked me in the shoulder on the right. He threw the scapula aside and punched one in the ear. All three piled up at once and drove a knife into the hip from behind. And so 3-4 times. Then they kicked and kicked. The blood gushed like a fountain. They pounded until he was left lying. They rushed to my wife. They wanted to finish me off. One ran for a spatula and several times hacked me in the leg with a blade. Passers-by scared away. Then passers-by rescued. Tugged on the reed with my belt, resuscitation. Rescued right on the asphalt. I have already sunk into the fog. Loss of more than 3 liters. Then 5 operations per night. In a coma for 2 days. Survived by a miracle. Then months in bed delirious and painkillers. Operations. I almost cut off my leg. As a result, a disabled person of 1,5 groups. And what about these three? The case lay in the inquiry for 2 months. No case was opened. The three walked quietly. Until colleagues and the media intervened. As a result, only one sat down after only 8 years. 1,5 got off with 1 months in jail. 8 on the loose. The case was categorically not initiated against a group of persons. There is a video of all three in blood, a video and a photo of the place of arrival. The Internal Security Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, parliamentary inquiries, stories in Vesti 1, etc. were connected .... But don't care. Everywhere I did not apply. All evidence was destroyed, no prints were found, and so on. The only prisoner pleaded not guilty. Behaves greyhound. But someone pays him for lawyers. She writes complaints and the term is slowly reduced. Coming soon.
    I am a reserve officer, a combatant, there are awards. And then three puppies were caught. I thought I would scold and that's it. Scolded ....
    The resuscitation doctor who saved me on the asphalt is a Tajik. The guys who stopped the blood were Bashkirs and two Circassians.
    These three are Russians.
  28. +3
    20 October 2021 19: 30
    Another option: to search our younger brothers from the south and central asia for cold weapons and firearms.
    But this requires the will of our authorities.
    1. -1
      21 October 2021 20: 32
      Quote: Million
      Another option: to search our younger brothers from the south and central asia for cold weapons and firearms.
      But this requires the will of our authorities.

      And the youngest on patrol will take a knife out of his pocket and say: "Another 5 from above for cold weapons at YOU"
  29. -1
    20 October 2021 20: 15
    And maybe there is still such a scenario, at the end of which the passengers and the girl are left without eyes.
  30. +2
    20 October 2021 20: 40
    Molested the girl, not the guy. Give out weapons according to a simplified scheme to women, so that she will soak everyone: she saved the defender of the incomprehensible from beatings and saved the attackers from prison. This is the best scenario.
    1. -2
      21 October 2021 18: 29
      We and the girls are easily sent to jail
      1. 0
        22 October 2021 00: 27
        on TV I saw conditionally one given for six stabs to death, so I came up with this option
  31. 0
    20 October 2021 20: 41
    Article 125. Leaving in danger.
    Deliberate abandonment of a person who is in a state of danger to life or health and is deprived of the opportunity to take measures for self-preservation due to childhood, old age, illness or due to his helplessness, in cases where the perpetrator had the opportunity to provide assistance to this person and was obliged to take care of him or he himself put him in a state of danger to life or health.

    Does the author understand what article 125 of the Criminal Code is about?
  32. +1
    20 October 2021 20: 55
    By the way, the young man who interceded was a boxer. Scenario 3 = The result is known. To boxing, you need to add martial arts and wrestling technique, at the end we get MMA.
  33. The comment was deleted.
  34. +1
    20 October 2021 21: 08
    Quote: yaglon
    By the way, the young man who interceded was a boxer. Scenario 3 = The result is known. To boxing, you need to add martial arts and wrestling technique, at the end we get MMA.

    special technique is needed such as kung fu from the movie "The Drunken Master"
  35. +7
    20 October 2021 21: 51
    Quote: Humpty
    Cases from the life of people whom I knew a little. The case was still under the Union. One boxer stood up for a girl whom they tried to rape. He killed two with his fist, the third ran away. The result is a 10-year term. The other was killed for hooligan motives by five. He hacked one of the attackers to death with sports equipment, seriously injured another, the rest were scared, left alone. The result is a 7-year term. The attackers on the girl and on the guy were individuals similar to those detained on the resonant incident in the subway.

    February 1993. In a public toilet of a disco, a company of 8 males aged 15-20 years trades in robbery - they beat a person who enters from behind in the ear, kick them, turn out their pockets, and sometimes the body is out of outerwear. One of the bodies turned out to be not a body, but a fighter; among the things "out of pocket" was a souvenir knife. At the sight of a knife, shouts: "We will fill you with this feather", etc. One poke under the ribs of six attackers (at the same point, "not the body" was trained well) - the exit is free. A quick run to the first police squad, voluntary surrender. Rayon department, handcuffs fastened to the pipe, standing on tiptoe for about 2 hours, light "pendels" for enlightenment. Placement in the "monkey house", two neighbors with a sincere conversation about the need to express their sincere desire in the zone, as it turned out there, the "well-wishers" turned out to be two of those eight who did not get a knife in the toilet. two - not eight, and now one is unconscious, and the other himself (well, almost) beat the door so hard that the police opened it and took the innocent victims. The poll was surprisingly polite on duty (as it turned out later, he was pulling out a version of self-defense with foam at the mouth). Inquiry (sooo meticulous interrogator), removal of beatings, forensics, search and interview of witnesses (found!) ... Result: self-defense against a threat to life, the knife is not recognized as a melee weapon, in 5 of the attackers suspended sentences for previous crimes turned into real ones, more One of the "well-wishers" put into the cell turned out to be ... a colleague and colleague of the "victim of the attack" (they accidentally collided six months later in the corridor, a second surprise from recognition, a sea of ​​blood and a score of 1: 2 in favor of the "victim").
    Story from the category "ordinary miracle, 1 piece." completely autobiographical. I still remember with surprise - it should have been wrong! I had to be crippled (they were just brutally beaten, they tried to maim it, and not just cut it out), robbed, for "carving on meat", in theory, I had to go to jail for such a period that life would have lost its meaning ... I don't know what stars converged over me, but I'm still sure: if there were no knife, I would be an invalid
    1. +4
      20 October 2021 22: 04
      Quote: Earnest
      I don’t know what stars converged over me, but I’m still sure: there would be no knife - I would be disabled

      Ndaaaaa, an instructive story, you were born in a shirt, very consonant with mine, when they wanted to strangle me on my own purse and almost half of my right ear was torn off. , (Rodaki extorted money, let him down the stairs with a bat.), they rolled off only after he squeezed one by the throat and he began to roll out his eyes and spit out his tongue. For the first time in my life I regretted that there was no knife in my pocket, not even a weighty bunch of keys. Thank God then the cops were still adequate ... nothing happened. hi
      PySy. for all my mighty agility, it was enough for me for the first few seconds of the fight, then a blow, my legs were cottony, and if I hadn’t grabbed that type by the neck and stifled him by the throat, hadn’t thrown it on myself, they would have scored ...
  36. 0
    20 October 2021 22: 01
    Quote: Serg Serg
    And now I will tell the story from my own experience. I drove up to the house in the evening in a car with my wife. There were three drunken girls walking along. They threw a can of beer at my head. Has stopped. I got out. I took a garden shovel by the base as self-defense. Handle 50 cm. Like a stick. I came up. Aggression. They kicked me in the shoulder on the right. He threw the scapula aside and punched one in the ear. All three piled up at once and drove a knife into the hip from behind. And so 3-4 times. Then they kicked and kicked. The blood gushed like a fountain. They pounded until he was left lying. They rushed to my wife. They wanted to finish me off. One ran for a spatula and several times hacked me in the leg with a blade. Passers-by scared away. Then passers-by rescued. Tugged on the reed with my belt, resuscitation. Rescued right on the asphalt. I have already sunk into the fog. Loss of more than 3 liters. Then 5 operations per night. In a coma for 2 days. Survived by a miracle. Then months in bed delirious and painkillers. Operations. I almost cut off my leg. As a result, a disabled person of 1,5 groups. And what about these three? The case lay in the inquiry for 2 months. No case was opened. The three walked quietly. Until colleagues and the media intervened. As a result, only one sat down after only 8 years. 1,5 got off with 1 months in jail. 8 on the loose. The case was categorically not initiated against a group of persons. There is a video of all three in blood, a video and a photo of the place of arrival. The Internal Security Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, parliamentary inquiries, stories in Vesti 1, etc. were connected .... But don't care. Everywhere I did not apply. All evidence was destroyed, no prints were found, and so on. The only prisoner pleaded not guilty. Behaves greyhound. But someone pays him for lawyers. She writes complaints and the term is slowly reduced. Coming soon.
    I am a reserve officer, a combatant, there are awards. And then three puppies were caught. I thought I would scold and that's it. Scolded ....
    The resuscitation doctor who saved me on the asphalt is a Tajik. The guys who stopped the blood were Bashkirs and two Circassians.
    These three are Russians.

    Eh, namesake, you got it ... But you yourself are to blame! Exactly you! The officer, WBD, and believed in the power of words, the decency of the gopots and the fairness of the law? Yes, they had to lie there, and it was your shovel that had to disappear along with the traces of their blood on it, and it was your best friend who had to quickly hang forty fingals and thirty-two cuts on you, it was your wife who had to howl, hiding her laughter in a voice near the ambulance called for you !! These are the realities that govern us ... And I even envy the fact that there are still people who believe in the best ... And I was brought up according to the rules "good should be with fists", "they don't talk to enemies, they are destroyed", " it is better to let three judge than six bear. " Therefore, he is alive, and even almost healthy.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. 0
      21 October 2021 14: 17
      Did he understand what kind of nonsense he wrote? Don't write drunk!
  37. +2
    21 October 2021 02: 08
    By the beginning of the last century, the problem of mountain jumpers was controlled by the Kuban and Terek Cossack Troops. Donets would also always support. if someone raised his tail at the Cossack, it seemed so little to anyone. Could kill and burn everything to hell. And then go back and add. Strength was answered with triple strength, always. The destruction of the Cossacks returned with bloody tears throughout Russia.
    1. -1
      21 October 2021 20: 45
      Quote: Volunteer
      mountain jumpers

      They took out 400 people in 000 days ...
      So even army units were not loaded at that time ...
      And without any Cossacks
      Quote: Volunteer
      Destruction of the Cossacks
      - it turned out to be nothing. There were too few of them ...
  38. -2
    21 October 2021 08: 45
    It's time to release "traumas" with underbarrel Go pro - cameras, so that later during the proceedings everything was unambiguous and understandable - the person was attacked and / or threatened, he first warned him according to all the rules, and then defended his life or the lives of his loved ones, and on the record you can see everything from the first person and then you don't need to look for any witnesses
  39. +1
    21 October 2021 09: 21
    I will comment in the style of the movie "Love and Doves":
    Part one - "Fantastic": an alternative reality is now such that you enter the World of Warcraft, and there in Stormwind all the NPCs are orcs. Part for those in the 'topic')
    Part two - "surreal" - each situation is unique if you take street fights. We know many examples when a knife sent to the next world both the CCM and the MC. I myself got hit on the head by several people near the next house - I just walked in a new hat, and the local "guardians of the purity of the chromosome alley" simply did not recognize me when I was drunk in the dark. Then, however, they apologized, but the traces left their faces for about a week and a half) I agree that here above someone wrote about sports among Russian children - it is fashionable for them to be now ... how to express it within the framework of the legislation - "unique ". Men in the classical sense are not popular now. That is why the “others” feel their impunity, moreover, on an instinctive level. As for self-defense, then the question is slippery: I know an example (told by an acquaintance of a neighbor's wife's brother), when a man ten years ago so "substituted" his face under several guys, earned himself a good used car. Well, and the last thing: any thoughts about injuries are not about our region in general!
    1. +1
      21 October 2021 20: 49
      Quote: orcinus
      I know an example (an acquaintance of a neighbor's wife's brother told), when a man ten years ago so "substituted" his face under several guys, earned himself a good used car

      I knew the district police officer - who several times getting up under the knife to stupid people - earned a three-ruble note in the suburbs
      1. 0
        22 October 2021 00: 56
        Similarly, in garage places, a neighbor openly provoked a fight rude grabbed by the collar, when in his hands a large adjustable wrench - he found out that he was a real lawyer, complained to his mother so that she would complain to his wife. As a result - the lawyer apologized, and I photographed his actions and podlok and notified him about it - the lawyer calmed down.
  40. +2
    21 October 2021 09: 54
    Why should everyone be so exalted?
    permission for self-defense will not be given to us, NEVER.
    Everything is at your own peril and risk.
    Therefore, Vysotsky's words come to mind: ... there are few violent ones ... - everyone wants to solve problems at someone else's expense - hence the number of "watching", but not participating ...
    And the "violent" - is not welcomed by the state, but - the Motherland needs them, oh, how necessary!
  41. +1
    21 October 2021 10: 07
    "to identify physically strong individuals capable of intervening in a fight in that situation. After that, it is necessary to involve them under Article 125 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation -" Leaving in danger. "

    I wonder how, according to this article, the author was going to bring "individuals" to justice !?
    This article assumes the presence of a special subject, for example, a doctor, etc.
    1. 0
      21 October 2021 13: 06
      Quote: Revival
      "to identify physically strong individuals capable of intervening in a fight in that situation. After that, it is necessary to involve them under Article 125 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation -" Leaving in danger. "

      I wonder how, according to this article, the author was going to bring "individuals" to justice !?
      This article assumes the presence of a special subject, for example, a doctor, etc.


      Yes, according to article 125 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation - "Leaving in danger" there must also be a victim.
      Article 125 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. A victim is a person who is in a state of danger to life or health and is deprived of the opportunity to take measures for self-preservation due to childhood, old age, illness or due to his helplessness (for example, intoxication or sleep).
      For doctors there is article 124. Failure to provide assistance to a patient.
      1. 0
        21 October 2021 23: 42
        I’m not even talking about a victim, a simple passer-by on the 125th Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, he is not obliged to try to save or help through it.
        1. 0
          22 October 2021 12: 05
          Quote: Revival
          I’m not even talking about a victim, a simple passer-by on the 125th Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, he is not obliged to try to save or help through it.

          Even a driver who, after an accident, left the passenger unconscious to the mercy of fate, is difficult to attract.
          You can attract parents who left the child in the car and something happened to him.
  42. 0
    21 October 2021 10: 34
    Quote: Finches
    A really alternative version - The young man rips off his clothes, and there laughing :


    No no no! There

    You might think that "the Jewish movie hero" Zuperman "did not cut his bosses and did not break his arms or legs to his enemies. It's just that all this remains always behind the scenes, the film rating and the pact prohibiting superheroes from killing are obligatory!
  43. +2
    21 October 2021 10: 34
    The presence of an article for exceeding the limits of self-defense is a shameful phenomenon for the country.

    This formulation of the question actually denies and prohibits self-preservation, honor and dignity of a person.
    1. -1
      21 October 2021 15: 26
      Quote: Revival
      The presence of an article for exceeding the limits of self-defense is a shameful phenomenon for the country.

      The necessary defense is not unlimited. Liability for causing harm occurs if a person defended himself with disproportionate means and unnecessarily caused serious injury or death.
      What if they exceed the limits of necessary defense deliberately in order to punish or punish for the physical or moral damage caused, or, even more so, in order to assert themselves or show their moral or physical superiority?
      Involve under Article 111. Intentional infliction of grievous bodily harm?
      But then the punishment is more serious.
      1. +2
        21 October 2021 16: 55
        here you pulled the trigger if it concerns the life of your relatives. I would, therefore, and there are no weapons, and there are most of them in Russia. our guns shoot themselves once a year
        1. 0
          21 October 2021 21: 12
          Quote: singless
          you pulled the trigger if it concerns the lives of your relatives

          The law does not prohibit pulling the trigger to protect the lives of relatives, as some here are trying to argue. I would, but only if there is a real threat to life.
          Section 37. Necessary Defense
          1. It is not a crime to harm an infringing person in a state of necessary defense, that is, in the protection of the individual and the rights of the defending or other persons protected by law, the interests of society or the state from socially dangerous assault, if this encroachment was associated with violence dangerous to the life of the defending or other person , or with an immediate threat of such violence.
          1. 0
            22 October 2021 10: 11
            you always have to speak for yourself. there is no answer from you in essence. means that you are not a man
            1. 0
              22 October 2021 11: 44
              Quote: singless
              you always have to speak for yourself. there is no answer from you in essence. means that you are not a man

              I would press but only if there is a real threat to life.
              Didn't learn how to read how to write without mistakes?
              1. +1
                22 October 2021 12: 09
                I approve of the man's answer. do not write much write on the case
        2. -1
          21 October 2021 23: 50
          That is, the law is contrary to natural justice.
          And the law must be just first and foremost.
          1. 0
            22 October 2021 11: 53
            Quote: Revival
            That is, the law is contrary to natural justice.
            And the law must be just first and foremost.

            Justice is the equality of all citizens before the law, regardless of their official position and social status. This is the rule of law. It provides for non-interference in the activities of the courts.
            The law is the embodiment of justice. The purpose of law and the coercion of the state is to maintain justice and natural human rights.
            1. -1
              22 October 2021 16: 39
              Law and justice are often poorly compatible things
              1. 0
                22 October 2021 18: 18
                Quote: Revival
                Law and justice are often poorly compatible things

                Each has its own truth and concepts of justice, therefore there is a law.

                "There can be no justice where there is a law that proclaims complete freedom."
                Stanislav Lem.
      2. -1
        21 October 2021 23: 47
        If you were attacked unprovoked, then you thereby assumed full responsibility for any consequences for yourself.
        Will you slowly slap the tiger in the face?
        Do you give a report on what could be?
        Blame the tiger?
        Do you use a 10000 volt wire for fun?
        Suicide him later that he did not answer you with 12 volts?
        The reason is the effect.
        The law must be fair, not artificially divorced from reality
  44. 0
    21 October 2021 10: 46
    Quote: g1v2
    And here's another scenario. The young man decides to show himself as a hero, but this company has a legally acquired short-barrel and they bring him down. And given that the subway car is not large, someone else is wounded or knocked down by accidental fire. Well, suppose young Rimbaud really suddenly grabs the barrel and knocks them down first, or perhaps someone else accidentally wounds or kills. The camera in the carriage shows that the young criminal attacked and shot three people. He has no mitigating circumstances. Verbal skirmish is not a mitigating circumstance. At the very first station, the outfit twists him and he travels for at least 15 years. Or the outfit decides not to risk it and knocks down the armed killer outright. And the dead hero is solemnly taken to the morgue. fellow
    And now for another most unheroic option. The guy goes to the panic button in the car and informs the driver about the situation. And at the next station, an outfit comes up to the car and knits brawlers. Distances between stations - 3 minutes. Well, maximum 5. During this time, these brawlers will not have time to do anything in this case. As a result, the guy goes home, the rowdy goes to the cell. But this is boring, right? There is no action, emotion, drive, excitement. Do you need to fire in a crowded place? belay
    PANCAKE, CHILDREN, HOW ARE YOU BORED WITH THIS RANGE. Play the console and calm down already.

    In 3-5 minutes, three @ full-blown inadequacies will cut you into pieces. This is good for you to write nonsense!
  45. 0
    21 October 2021 11: 21
    I remember Soviet times - everything was done there "at the request of the workers" ... lol Well, at least it was a good idea. good
    Here we write, and sometimes there are such battles that it seems that the screen is smoking, but, by and large, apart from the local hangout "those who are up there" absolutely do not care what we write here and why.
    It seems that we also have deputies, but what's the use of them - the authorities, whatever they want, they do ...
    1. -1
      22 October 2021 15: 39
      Quote: whowhy
      I remember Soviet times - everything was done there "at the request of the workers" ...

      Articles in the Criminal Code for exceeding the necessary defense also at the request of the workers?

      RSFSR Code of 27.10.1960/XNUMX/XNUMX
      Article 111. Serious or less serious bodily injury,
      caused by exceeding the limits of necessary defense.

      Serious or less serious bodily injury caused by
      exceeding the limits of necessary defense, -
      the applicable sentence is deprivation of liberty for a term of up to one year, or
      correctional labor for the same period.

      Article 105. Murder in excess of the limits of necessary defense.

      Murder committed in excess of the necessary
      defense, -
      the applicable sentence is deprivation of liberty for a term of up to two years, or
      correctional labor for the same period.
  46. 0
    21 October 2021 12: 41
    the state is extremely loyal to inveterate criminals - rapists, pedophiles, murderers, but at the same time ordinary citizens who have broken the law, sometimes even by accident, are punished to the maximum.

    The reason?
    The fact that our power is taking away those people who like to mock others. With impunity. This is how it works, our power. If you "give slack", then these disgusting Russians will stop such mockery of themselves. They will cease to endure in silence. This is scary. This scares the authorities to the point ...
    Nothing will happen, no one will do anything. We are hated and feared. And by the way, "Mozambique" was not used there, if the defender was not a gunfighter from the kin. There is not enough time and space. I would have had to shoot in the faces at once.
  47. +3
    21 October 2021 13: 00
    Separately, it is worth mentioning those males who fled to the opposite end of the subway car.

    Author, let the state first comply with the points that you indicated at the beginning, first of all, by correcting the legislation, and only then we will judge someone.
    From life:
    Last week I was feeding my child in Teremka (Udelnaya metro station in St. Petersburg, who knows, roughly represents the specific inhabitants of the area), in my presence, a company of probably drugged teenagers and turned up older ones, pulled out a chair from the cafe to sit on the street with comfort. I warned the administrator about this to call the security service, the police, etc. Instead, she went on her own, just in case I went out too. The company reacted aggressively to her remarks and shouted life threats when the receptionist took the chair.
    So, objectively assessing the situation, I personally would intervene in the conflict only with an immediate threat to the life of this woman and really could be late, theoretically they could have had time to stab her with a knife. But. But, I also understand that I got in earlier and start a fight, because Today's reality, the same police will take me to find out, this is at best, and at worst up to the real time, if the parents of teenagers hurry up.
    This is what I mean, but the fact that it is necessary to evaluate such cases very carefully.
    Ps I am a reserve officer, incl. with combat experience, such a rather gloomy man from the 90s, there was a pepper spray in the car standing around the corner, and a child accidentally sharpened his penknife-pencils in his pocket for drawing lessons.
  48. +1
    21 October 2021 13: 22
    Crap! How much I have already written about this. It makes no sense to change anything in the law on weapons until at least the judicial practice on self-defense is changed. Better yet, the article will not be completely rewritten. Fuck the subway and protect unfamiliar girls. I want to have every right to protect myself and my family in my house from those who broke into it and so that there is no there is no doubt that nothing will come to me for this. At least I'll put a whole platoon of dugs. And what would not matter Dagi or Russians or Tajiks. He broke into someone else's house and got a bullet even though you are a Khabib, even a pregnant girl, and even an oligarch. The inviolability of the home and the right to life and its protection are fundamental. The very foundation.

    And about the subway and high-speed shooting in crowded places - all this is then discussed. For example, I learned practical shooting, but basically I don’t acquire a short barrel.
    1. -2
      21 October 2021 22: 49
      Quote: bk316
      there is no doubt that nothing will come to me for this.
      Learn to hide bodies, buy lye and a saw in advance.
      Quote: bk316
      For example, I learned practical shooting, but basically I don’t acquire a short barrel.
      With what? How long do you take the "path"?
      1. 0
        22 October 2021 12: 18
        With what?

        Glock 17
        I took the ProShuter course.
        I don’t remember the results five years ago, but I passed all 10 tests.
        Received, respectively, permission for independent training and dropped - not mine.

        And I like to shoot from a long barrel, since there are many places around Moscow.
        Well, my own weapon, dear ...
        But everything is different there ...
  49. +2
    21 October 2021 14: 35
    Here the author ruined everything by kotsovka ... All that after ZY. - outright delirium!
    The author himself painted what would happen to those people who would harm these animals - they would be imprisoned. The only option is to immediately call the police. Those. people who know how to deal with these geeks. The state leaves the population no other option: if you defend yourself, you sit down.
  50. -6
    21 October 2021 15: 01
    weapons and knives should be banned altogether, for carrying a knife in your pocket you should give at least 2 years at once. a normal person does not carry a knife. I propose a fine and forced labor to the author of the article, tk. he talks a lot.
    1. -1
      21 October 2021 20: 06
      And for tweezers so generally for life. And don't forget the toothpicks.
      1. -1
        22 October 2021 00: 03
        do not write nonsense, if a person walks with a knife, then he is a potential murderer. and we have it not a weapon. should be banned and imprisoned. We do not need foolishness like in the USA.
        1. -1
          22 October 2021 08: 50
          Quote: sbuskets
          we don't need foolishness like in the usa


          To say this, you have to see it with your own eyes, i.e. visit and live in the USA.
          1. +1
            22 October 2021 15: 43
            there is no need to live there, there is a police state, and anyone can be shot, so you entered someone else's house and they shot you. schools shoot regularly. we don't need that. everything was fine in the USSR, even better in Europe, where instead of prisons there are correctional institutions, where "prisoners" learn to live in society and work, because without this there can be no correction. And among the developed countries the highest crime rate is in the USA and Russia, such is the statistics. In South Korea, the police have nothing but shokers and peppercorns, they have no weapons, you can walk there at night anywhere in the city and nothing will happen to you. These are real examples, not your inventions, which contradict logic. The more weapons people have, the more they become embittered, many are inadequate, who will use it for show or other reasons, and in schools will continue to imitate Columbine. This is already a sick society and state, there is no place for such on the map of the planet and it is time to think, otherwise we will all end badly.
            1. 0
              22 October 2021 18: 34
              Quote: sbuskets
              The more weapons people have

              The more weapons there are, the higher the likelihood that it will fire.
              The weapon has magical power over its owner - it seduces him with a false sense of superiority and in an inscrutable way makes him use it.

        2. 0
          25 October 2021 15: 57
          Better to ban people like you
    2. -1
      22 October 2021 08: 55
      Quote: sbuskets
      I propose a fine and forced labor to the author of the article, tk. he talks a lot.


      The proposers have done a good job in this country. They were offered on genetics, computers, offered on cosmopolitan doctors, spies of all intelligence agencies, etc.
      The result is obvious.
      1. -1
        22 October 2021 15: 46
        no, they don't work in our country, but if they did, then nothing would be like it is now. and in our country another lockdown is introduced and lies about the governor's decrees, which cannot be higher than the constitution and are of a recommendatory nature. but if there is a herd of sheep in a society, then it is happy to participate in such a thing and be part of the experiment. here you are too.
        1. -1
          22 October 2021 16: 11
          Quote: sbuskets
          here you are too.

          You carefully read my comment again and understand its content.
          We worked then and are working now.
          You all mix in one heap.
          lockdown is introduced and lies about the governor's decrees that cannot be higher than the constitution

          Lockdown, Governor is one thing.
          Self-defense, arms turnover are different.
          But both violate the rights of citizens prescribed in the constitution.
  51. 0
    21 October 2021 16: 09
    Well, yes, there are only 3 options for the development of events. And most importantly, the attackers will also act as the author of the article described?

    I agree about exceeding self-defense. If this is not finishing off the fleeing aggressor, then there should be no restrictions on self-defense. As for the legalization of short-barreled guns, I am against it. And the shooting in the carriage is another story.

    I wonder if there are rebounds from trauma?
    1. -1
      21 October 2021 22: 51
      Quote: ButchCassidy
      If this is not finishing off the fleeing aggressor
      Well, yes, we must nobly let him leave, otherwise he will not be able to prepare, return and take revenge on you and your loved ones.
      1. +2
        22 October 2021 10: 32
        What is not clear about the word “finishing off”? If you gave in to the evil one in self-defense and he fell and ran away, and then you broke his head with a stone while he was lying unconscious/running away, then you will be judged.
    2. -2
      22 October 2021 00: 05
      everything is much simpler, as a rule, the attackers will have a knife or an injury and they will kill you, but the author does not understand this, perhaps he is the same as them, i.e. a potential murderer and maniac, and such people must be taken under control from childhood and, at the slightest violation, imprisoned for life, this is the only way society will become reasonable.
    3. 0
      22 October 2021 08: 48
      Quote: ButchCassidy
      I wonder if there are rebounds from trauma?


      From hard objects, like a ball (it will bounce off one head and get stuck in the eye of the other).
      The first has damage (concussion or other), the second has complete removal of the eye.
      1. 0
        22 October 2021 10: 35
        From hard objects, like a ball (it will bounce off one head and get stuck in the eye of the other).
        The first has damage (concussion or other), the second has complete removal of the eye.


        This worries me too. In fact, if males have their testicles retracted in the carriage, then using self-defense means in a closed room can be dangerous for others. On the other hand, the rule “let me be judged by 10 rather than carried by 6” has not been canceled.
        1. -1
          22 October 2021 10: 43
          Quote: ButchCassidy
          This worries me too. In fact, if males have their testicles retracted in the carriage, then using self-defense means in a closed room can be dangerous for others.


          Read the opinion on this matter people, who moved from the USSR to the USA, it is in the comments. I moved it from another topic.

          And continue to have your opinion and sit on the bench of the subway car, turning your head to the side.
  52. 0
    21 October 2021 16: 55
    Quote: mojohed2012
    Foam gas can, so that there is no cloud of gas, in which everyone in the car will go nuts.
    The foam flies into the ro ... the faces of the villains and no consequences.
    I myself have trauma and so, that way, I figured out what would happen if I used it. The answer is always obvious - they will be deprived of the right to wear and freedom.
    But we need to defend ourselves somehow, we will defend ourselves.

    Pepper spray is popular here in Germany. The canister produces a narrow stream of foam at a distance of 2 meters; you can aim it directly at the face. Incapacitates the enemy 100% wassat
  53. +8
    21 October 2021 17: 28
    I’m 69, and due to my character, I wouldn’t be able to stand aside. But the result would be clearer. I would lie next to this boy, perhaps even in a cemetery. There would be a pistol (knife and boxing, alas..). I am non-aggressive, loyal, respect the laws, not an alcoholic or a drug addict. Well, give me a gun so that I can protect others. I will climb for my wife or son with my bare hands, I will climb for others, but I don’t want to die for a stranger. I can give a cooler example. I live in a village. In winter or..no one. the city is 40 km away. There are no cops, I’ve never seen one. Only summer neighbors. and I’m here for permanent residence. what to do if drunken creatures arrive..? While I found the entrance, I started an Alabai, weight 80+ and height 80cm. He will stop the punks. But there are no more serious bandits. They are armed perfectly. They will slap the dog at once. Then I would have a screw cutter and a law that relieves me of responsibility for using it. I would equate my fence to the state border. Cross, stop, I’ll shoot. don't hear the warning up. Presuming defeat. And I must be right. Because the safety of my family is at stake. and if the shot is not stopped, then the person does not control or ignores the signals and that means he is out of his mind or with intent. Private property is inviolable. like the border of a small Motherland.
    1. +1
      22 October 2021 10: 59
      In my opinion, I have the right to defend my home from anyone and in any way. I remember a story: somewhere in the South (Rostov, Stavropol - I don’t remember) there was an entrepreneur, an Armenian by nationality, in his house visiting “tourists” from Georgia tried to rob him at night, he, his wife and daughter were beaten, tied up, tortured, they demanded money . In the end, having received nothing (either they didn’t have it, or didn’t want to give it away), the “guest performers” began to talk among themselves in Georgian, saying that it was time to finish off the women; they did not pay attention to the beaten owner of the house, who was covered in blood. And he lived in Georgia for some time and understood a little Georgian. I made out a couple of words and understood the word “women”. It is clear that in such a situation it was at least a question of rape, and at most a murder.

      He was overcome with anxiety and realized that if he couldn’t do anything, something irreparable would happen. As a result, he was able to free himself from his bonds, made his way into the kitchen, grabbed a knife and stabbed all the attackers. Apparently, the effect of surprise.

      As a result, they tried to imprison him for the murder of 3 people. Although, it would seem, everything is obvious: strangers, in his house at night, beat his wife and daughter, tried to rob him, and God knows what else to do. It is clear that this is pure self-defense...

      In short, if the whole village had not stood up for him, our hero would have died for 15 years...

      I’m just wondering what the investigation and the prosecutor’s office should be guided by when trying to imprison a man for defending his wife and daughter in his home?
  54. -2
    21 October 2021 19: 31
    Yes, in nature, you see such faces, and the hand itself reaches for the knife. Firefighting must be allowed, and the police must be laid off, who have forgotten that they are Law Enforcers and have become jackals.
    1. 0
      22 October 2021 11: 01
      The law enforcement officers did a great job, but some nonsense guy, clearly of Slavic appearance, tried to stand up for the “boys.” There is a video
  55. +1
    21 October 2021 22: 09
    It’s a paradoxical situation - in Russia the authorities pursue a person who has fought off a criminal, pursuing him instead of the criminal!
  56. +1
    22 October 2021 00: 09
    The author analyzed the scenarios so well, but at the end of the article he messed up with “being left in danger.” And in such a scenario the wording “mass fight” would appear.
    In general, sometimes one gets the impression that the state is extremely loyal to hardened criminals
    This is all because, for some reason unknown to me, the value of the life of a criminal, in the eyes of the state, is equal to the value of the life of a law-abiding citizen. Plus the laziness of law enforcement agencies to investigate self-defense (which is problematic), when they can investigate a murder (which is obvious and there is no need to chase after the “criminal”).
  57. +2
    22 October 2021 11: 12
    3 correct scenarios:
    1) Drunk bandits are detained at the entrance to the subway due to inebriation or after being recognized by television cameras (otherwise they recognize and slow down the bulk, not the bandits).
    "Let's go." -"What's the matter?" - “According to the rules, being drunk in the subway is prohibited. Appearing drunk in a public place is an administrative offense. You are detained. Come along. Take everything out of your pockets... A knife?.. A spray can with an unknown composition? So... you are bandits with a criminal history. Okay... a knife and a spray can - for examination, the client will be fined for drunkenness and in a pre-trial detention center until the end of the examination." That's all!
    2) Drunken hooligan bandits are detained on the platform by a police squad that comes down after them. Next - the same thing.
    3) Bandits who start to misbehave in the carriage are noticed by the cameras inside the carriage and are detained when stopping at the nearest station. Next - the same thing.
    I myself almost became a participant in the story in the subway with two Caucasians. But everything happened according to the second option. A policeman appeared out of nowhere! This is how it should be! The truth is that it was a long time ago, and not in Moscow.
  58. +2
    22 October 2021 12: 40
    Very often, exceeding the limits of self-defense depends on the scales in the hands of justice. As a rule, criminals have something to put on these scales.
  59. The comment was deleted.
  60. +1
    22 October 2021 22: 46
    Good article, I can agree with a lot of things. But the last paragraph is frankly ridiculous. To put it mildly, the author got excited. Prosecution of those in the carriage for “leaving in danger”? Not security officers, not rescuers - ordinary people? What should they have done? Dying for a stranger? Sorry, but this is a FEAT. You cannot demand a feat from those whose duties do not include its accomplishment. An ordinary person may get scared, confused, etc. They won't judge you for this!!!
    1. CYM
      +1
      23 October 2021 21: 51
      I completely agree. IMHO Leaving in danger is a slightly different situation. And here is Art. 38 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation was quite applicable in this situation. It is not a crime to cause harm to a person who has committed a crime when he is detained to be brought to the authorities and to suppress the possibility of him committing new crimes, if it was not possible to detain such a person by other means and the measures necessary for this were not exceeded. But here again there are “if” and “excess” with all that entails. sad In general, it’s worth remembering one thing: the monopoly on violence is always in power and it does not tolerate competitors. Therefore, the use of bottles and mops for purposes other than their intended purpose by government officials is nothing, but violence by citizens, even towards criminals, is not good. negative
      1. 0
        23 October 2021 23: 53
        Quote: CYM
        And here is Art. 38 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation was quite applicable in this situation.

        Yes ! Quite applicable. Here is a comment.
        Commentary to Art. 38 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.
        The power to detain a person who has committed a crime, including causing harm to him, belongs not only to specially authorized law enforcement officials, but also to any citizen who wishes to use this power.
        The detention of a person who has committed a crime should be distinguished from necessary defense, the legal assessment of which is carried out according to the rules provided for in Art. 37 of the Criminal Code. Provisions of Art. 38 of the Criminal Code are applied in cases where a socially dangerous attack has already been completed or stopped and harm is caused to the person who committed the crime, solely for the purpose of detaining him for delivery to the authorities and preventing him from committing a new crime. If the detained person resists and uses violence against the subjects carrying out his detention, then the latter again have the right to the necessary defense.
        Causing harm during the detention of a person who has committed a crime is justified, and therefore excludes public danger, crime and, therefore, punishability in the presence of the following mandatory conditions:
        1) the purpose of detention must be related to the delivery of the person to the authorities and the suppression of the commission of new crimes.
        2) harm (both physical and property) must be of a forced nature and can only be caused to the detainee (and not to third parties), since it was not possible to detain him by other means.
        3) when causing harm, there should be no obvious allowance, i.e. deliberate excess of the measures necessary for detention, as defined in Part 2 of the commented article, which is also determined by the criterion of proportionality.
        In other cases, criminal liability for exceeding the measures necessary for detention, for example, in case of careless infliction of physical harm, is excluded, which does not relieve the person from other types of liability associated with causing damage, for example, civil law.
        Quote: CYM
        In general, it’s worth remembering one thing: the monopoly on violence is always in power

        This is obvious and there is nothing to discuss here.
        Quote: CYM
        the use of bottles and mops for other purposes by government officials is nothing

        This is punishable for them too.
        Quote: CYM
        But violence by citizens, even towards criminals, is not good.

        Articles 37 and 38 of the Criminal Code allow for violence by citizens against criminals.
        1. 0
          24 October 2021 01: 02
          To what I wrote above about Article 38 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, I will add that despite all this, it remains to find someone who could detain three at once.
          I can already hear objections that this is impossible without exceeding the limits and the authorities will punish under Article 114 of the Criminal Code.
          But we are talking about suppression and detention and not about injuring or killing them there right on the spot.
          Therefore, I conclude that those who wrote in the comments here about what needed to be addressed first of all are probably right
          The police are paying attention to them because everything could have ended more sadly for this guy.
  61. The comment was deleted.
  62. -1
    26 October 2021 16: 15
    Quote: sbuskets
    do not write nonsense, if a person walks with a knife, then he is a potential murderer. and we have it not a weapon. should be banned and imprisoned. We do not need foolishness like in the USA.

    When you need to cut something, clean something up, or sharpen a pencil outside the house, what will you do it with? By the power of thought? Two haloperidol for this gentleman.

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