World War 2030s. What should we prepare for and what will be the role of the Navy

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The American Ohio-class SSBNs are the only force capable of completely and guaranteed to destroy our country. We may have to face this challenge in the 30s

What will the upcoming war be like and will there be at all?

And do we need a fleet in it?



Without at least an approximately definite appearance of the conflict of the future, it is very difficult to build effective forces capable of victoriously resolving this conflict.

Of course, the range of threats for the near future for Russia is very wide. However, if you prepare for the worst options, then conflicts of less complexity and intensity will be much easier to handle.

What will be the next big war we need to be prepared for?

The answer is that it will be naval and nuclear. Everything in the world goes exactly to this.

Growing threat


The growing military tension is clearly felt in the world. The United States is ready to extend its technologies for building nuclear submarines to third countries, to Australia.

In Japan, the creation of nuclear submarines has been discussed for a long time, and this topic rises again, and fighters, albeit American ones, have already flown from the first Japanese post-war aircraft carrier.

South Korea experienced submarine-launched ballistic missile and is going to massively arm themselves with such means. Why - you can see, for example, here.

And so it is all over the world.

Americans facing a crisis in naval shipbuilding are struggling to figure out how to get out of it. Not working yet. And in the end, they cannot build ships at the desired pace, and their situation with repairs is somewhat similar to ours. But they have a reserve. The rise to power of the Democrats led to a rollback of Trump's gains in the economy, which is sinking again. And this will give rise to unemployment. And the crowds of still more or less trained workers from the former "rusty belt", being organized in the coastal areas, will be able to breathe new life into American shipyards.

You just need to organize all this.

Why do Americans need all this?

War is on the doorstep. And the reason is the same as the previous times: too many insoluble contradictions have accumulated in the world. They can only be resolved by force.

The main contradiction is obvious - the United States can no longer unconditionally rule the world, but strongly wants to preserve this opportunity. Other countries are ready to resist, if necessary, then by force. Nobody wants to retreat. This contradiction is irreparable.

Or rather, not so. This contradiction can only be resolved with the help of a world war, which will destroy all independent decision-making centers and leave only the United States at the top of the pile of debris of human civilization, in its current version.

Americans have a lot of incentives just for such a brutal solution to their problems.

A simple example - China is actively trading with African countries in its currency. This undermines the turnover of dollars in the world, and with it the dollar "recycling", which is hardly understood by the domestic man in the street, which is one of the foundations of American power.

Will Americans accept this?

After all, it is thanks to this fraudulent trick that they maintain a negative trade balance with the rest of the world for decades, today it is about a trillion dollars a year.

Not bad, isn't it?

And this directly gives rise to the same "American way of life" with a level of well-being that was once unthinkable for non-Americans. It is as if a certain person would receive 40% of the money spent on leaving the store for their entire life. They don't just refuse such bonuses.

But the Chinese "break off" these bonuses to the Americans, as well as Russia with its stupid and clumsy, but still ongoing de-dollarization. And this affects Americans today, and will affect even more.

Another example is the finite nature of the earth's resources, suitable for relatively cheap development.

Before that, the Americans simply blew up those regions from the inside that could become not exporters of energy and resources, but their consumers, preserving the situation of oil rigs there, surrounded by machine guns, and literally naked locals who cannot claim this energy. As a result, neither Libya nor Iraq will ever turn into something like an industrial Iran. Anyone can name the countries that were simply destroyed by the United States, as well as the following candidates for "resource optimization".

But this is not enough, the consumption of other countries needs to be cut.

Besides, there are also irrational motives.

In articles “Russia and the hostile environment. We understand the problem " и “Russia and the hostile environment. The direction of the main blow " the author showed how monstrous and perverse is the attitude of Americans towards the existence of strong and independent cultures.

This factor should not be underestimated - there are always real people behind political decisions, who sometimes simply cannot think rationally. For many in the American establishment, the existence of strong and independent "others" is a pain that we cannot even imagine, but it drives them.

So the Americans' fear of China's rise and their dislike for a Russia unwilling to submit to them are also significant factors in world politics.

The cherry on top is the dubious status of the United States as a serious nuclear power after the 30s. Readers in English should definitely read the report of the US Government accountability office (GAO) on the state of the US nuclear arsenal and its prospects. The report is called “Nuclear triad. The US Department of Defense and the US Department of Energy are facing challenges in mitigating the risks to US [nuclear] containment efforts. "

The conclusions are simply devastating - the United States is practically on the verge of losing its nuclear status. A number of technologies and industries required for the production of new nuclear weapons have simply been lost. For some time, the Department of Energy will be able to maintain the current level of equipment of the US Armed Forces with nuclear weapons, but miracles do not happen. They have five or six years to start correcting the situation before it's too late.

A short commentary in Russian is available here... The report itself in English - here.

As a result, in the near future, the United States will face different elections such as "lose the status of a nuclear (economic) superpower or the whole world to dust." They will simply have to choose - either to strike or to withdraw from the position of the world hegemon, at the same time facing hundreds of millions of people in dozens of countries eager to take revenge on the Americans.

All these "forks" will be in front of the Americans somewhere in the early thirties, if they do not strike, then they will merge "in a prior art", as it is no longer a nuclear power. Worse than the USSR in the 90s.

And what will they choose?

Self-rejection and economic collapse?

Or maybe "the whole world is in dust" after all?

And is it not for this that they are driving both us and the Chinese into one military bloc?

So that later it would be possible to strike at both countries as one hostile force?

Is it not within the framework of ensuring this all this wild intensity of anti-Russian and anti-Chinese propaganda in the Western media, which cannot be called anything other than "pre-war"?

All this also does not take into account the fact that it is much better to overcome the split existing in the United States by having a common enemy, and at the same time “writing off” a part of the “unproductive” population.

The Americans, as you can clearly see, understand everything about the timing. The same construction of eight nuclear submarines for Australia is scheduled for 2036. This is somewhere near the deadline when they need to start... The expiration dates of the American nuclear arsenal also go somewhere in 2035-2036.

And the most important thing is the carriers.

"Ohio" is already not in the best condition, the series is already being written off, the terms of repairs are at least much higher than the normative ones, and the prospects for the new Columbia are more than vague.

Everything hits this point, in the early thirties they will have a situation "now or never."

And no behind-the-scenes negotiations of American generals with the enemy, such as, for example, negotiations between the chairman of the OKNSH General Mark Milli and the Chinese, should not deceive anyone - there just not everyone understood what was at stake, and of those who understood, many know that until America is ready. Then they will have to admit that she will not be ready, and they have to hit like that, unprepared.

Fleeing from Afghanistan is also not an example - the USSR was pressed to death in the 80s exactly after the American flight from Saigon. As it has been written more than once, Americans are almost impossible to demoralize.

The world war has ceased to be something unreal. Of course, anything can happen, but so far everything is going exactly in this direction. Maybe, of course, they will choose to merge, like the USSR. But planning will have to start from bad options.

World War 2030s. What should we prepare for and what will be the role of the Navy
American Dream, latest version.

And here everything is very bad for us.

Geopolitical triangle


At the beginning of the nineteenth century, the main content of European politics was the confrontation between Napoleonic France and its overseas enemy - Great Britain.

Unable to defeat Great Britain, Napoleon decided to knock out from under her a support weaker than her - Russia, which had emerged from the Continental blockade. Napoleon made a mistake in his calculations, but he hit the "support". The result was the devastated European part of Russia and the burned down Moscow, and this is not counting the combat losses, which were considerable for the beginning of the nineteenth century.

Before that, Napoleon tried to act diplomatically, but did not achieve anything and relied on strength.

In the late thirties of the next, twentieth century, the main issue in Europe was the rise of Germany. After a successful blitzkrieg against France and the allies, the Germans were faced with the question - what to do? Due to a number of factors, both Hitler's specific view of the world and the work of the British special services, Hitler became convinced that Great Britain's stubbornness was connected with the hopes that the Bolshevik USSR would enter the war, which Hitler began to regard as a support for the British.

The situation is similar today.

There is a rising China. There is the United States that wants to prevent its rise. And there is a support (from the point of view of the Americans, of course) - with a corrupt state administration controlled by the fifth column in power, an openly brainless state apparatus and near-zero economic development rates - Russia.

If it were not for nuclear weapons, then the Russian Federation with its small population and vulnerable geographic location would have long been dismembered into several protectorates, which would also be at war with each other. But nuclear weapons made it, no, not impossible, but simply very difficult and dangerous. But you can take a chance and try.

Nuclear option


If you try to "play" for the Americans, then the most profitable strategy of confrontation with China is as follows - you need to knock out a weak support, Russia, and then just dictate an ultimatum to China. Destroying China completely is undesirable, it is an important trading partner of America. He must be put on his knees. Russia is not an important partner; you can do anything with it.

But strategic Russian nuclear weapons need to be neutralized.

Unlike the Americans themselves, neither the USSR nor Russia could make a long-range Aviation - you can read about how the Americans did it in the article Bombers and Nuclear Retaliation... Our planes, on the other hand, require hours to prepare for a flight, to maintain such combat readiness as the Americans do, we do not know how and basically just do not believe that such a thing can be in principle.

The Strategic Missile Forces and the strategic submarines of the Navy remain. About the second - later, but for now we will deal with the Strategic Missile Forces.

There is still an opinion that the presence of a missile attack warning system (EWS) and working communication systems makes it impossible to deliver a successful disarming nuclear strike against Russia. At first glance, this is true - spacecraft of the Tundra system and radar stations as part of the early warning system provide early warning of a missile attack from the United States.

However, this is true only for some "standard model" of conflict. And she doesn't have to be like that in reality.

Obsessed (the only suitable word here) by our land and continentality, the citizens and the military do not want (the only suitable word here) to see that there is a way to launch a missile strike not from the territory of the United States. The Americans have nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines (SSBNs) of the Ohio class. And the first blow is quite possible with them. The options for such a strike can be calculated in different ways, but in any case, it is hundreds of warheads almost simultaneously.


"Trident". If we continue to do stupid things, then, with some probability, our death will look like. Photo: US Navy

Why do this specifically from submarines?

The answer is extremely simple. A ballistic missile can fly not only on a ballistic, but also on a so-called flat trajectory, low. In this case, its flight the entire route is provided by the thrust of the engines and the lifting force on the hull.

The technical aspects of such a strike are very well understood in the work of American scientists Lisbeth Grönlund and David Wright. "Flat Trajectory Sea-Based Ballistic Missiles: Technical Assessment and Control Capabilities"... Unfortunately, you can still find points of view about the impossibility of such a blow. This work reveals the question well.


A clear illustration of possible trajectories from the indicated work.

The advantage of such a launch is speed - the rocket needs to fly a much shorter distance along the combat path than when flying along a ballistic trajectory. When striking from the Mediterranean Sea, from the region of the Ionian Islands and Crete by the 60th missile division of the Strategic Missile Forces in the Saratov region and the long-range aviation airbase in Engels nearby, the missile's flight time from the moment of launch will be no more than 8,5 minutes or less. A ballistic missile at its speed just travels a short distance very quickly.

Without disclosing any numbers, let's say nevertheless that this is significantly less than what is needed to make a decision and pass a command to a retaliatory strike through the combat control networks.

And a similar picture arises when attacking the rest of the divisions of the 27th Guards Missile Army in the European part of Russia and the 31st Missile Army. There the flight time can be increased to 7–8 minutes. And this is too fast.

When delivering a series of tactical nuclear strikes with the help of future American MRBMs or hypersonic missiles of the Air Force with a nuclear warhead in Moscow, it is also realistic to completely disrupt the control of all the RF Armed Forces for a period of tens of minutes.


Explanations: 1 - an approximate area from which a nuclear missile strike is delivered from the northwest direction. 2 - an approximate area from which the strike is delivered from the southwest direction. The boundaries are conditional, within the limits of ensuring the required impact time, they can shift. Targets: 3rd - 42nd Tagil Missile Division of the 31st Missile Army, 4th - 8th Melitopol Red Banner Missile Division of the 31st Missile Army, 5th - 14th Kiev-Zhitomir Missile Division of the Order of Kutuzov, 27th Guards Vitebsk Red Banner Army , 6 - 7th Guards Missile Rezhitskaya Red Banner Division of the 27th Guards Vitebsk Red Banner Army, 7th - 60th Taman Missile Order of the October Revolution, Red Banner Division of the 27th Guards Vitebsk Red Banner Army and long-range aviation base in Engels, 8 54th Guards Missile Order of Kutuzov Division of the 27th Guards Vitebsk Red Banner Army, 9th - 13th Orenburg Red Banner Missile Division of the 31st Missile Army, 10 - command posts and communication centers in Moscow and the Moscow region and the 28th Guards Red Banner Missile Division 27th Guards Vitebsk Red Banner Army.

And this is already enough not only for a strike by Pacific submarines of the US Navy on the 33rd Missile Army in Siberia, but also for the inclusion of the surviving Minutemans in the attack, if at least one of them can still take off by that time (with which there will be obvious problems and what is an incentive for Americans to resolve the issue with competitors radically).

However, there are chances that the issue of replacing the "Minutemans" will still get off the ground, and then everything will be even worse.

Thus, the destruction of most of the Strategic Missile Forces before the units and formations receive a launch command is quite real, albeit difficult. The same applies to the entire composition of long-range aviation.

At the same time, the surviving crews of mobile missile systems will not be able to fire immediately - if the control is disorganized, the launch order with the corresponding commands (sign of a flight task, sign of unlocking, etc.) for missiles may not be transmitted. For some time they will be hunted from the air by American B-2 bombers or, possibly, B-21 bombers with nuclear bombs, which there will be no one to stop in the electromagnetic chaos of a thermonuclear war.

But even with the regular development of the Perimeter system and the rapid transfer of all commands to the surviving launchers, the retaliatory strike will turn out to be very weak, a few dozen warheads, abandoned haphazardly on US territory, partly in cities, partly in military bases. These losses will not stop the American war machine.

Will the nuclear charges on the Tridents still be alive by that time?

And the Tridents themselves?

Will they not rot just like the Minutemans (not now, but by the 30s, of course)?

No.

It is the Tridents that are the most reliable component of the American strategic nuclear triad; these missiles have relatively recently been undergoing work to extend their service life, and they also receive modernized and renewed nuclear charges. The Americans have just announced the number of their nuclear weapons - 3.

If this is true, then the question arises - what carriers were these warheads on?

And can you quickly return them to them?

It is very possible that some of these charges are intended for the Tridents.
Also, it is impossible to exclude the massive use of Tomahawk cruise missiles in the nuclear version. They use the same W80 warhead, which is placed on nuclear bombs, the Americans will find a certain number of charges, especially since among these 3 units are clearly not only strategic ones.


The size of the American nuclear arsenal. Source: US Departement of State

What else will be critical for the United States, besides the covert deployment of its SSBNs and, possibly, SSBNs of the Royal British Navy?

It will be critical to "shoot" our strategic submarines - SSBNs. Much has already been written about how this is possible, so for now, let's just dwell on the fact that the Americans can do this, if necessary.

You should not, of course, think that such an operation can be performed playfully, no. And a lot of things can fail, and go wrong, and instead of losses in the range from zero to a couple of million civilians, the United States can lose twenty, but the problem is that this option is technically possible for them, and for the "elites" it is also ethically acceptable , and closer to the thirties, it will become politically desirable.

The decisions they will make there may be unpredictable, which means that we must take this risk into account.

Let's see what the actions of the Americans can be after a successful attack.

Success development


With a successful disarming strike, the Americans will face the following situation.

Russia has lost the ability to attack US territory. It is useless to attack NATO countries, since this will not stop the American attack, but it will involve other countries, at least formally neutral for the time being.

The Russian Strategic Missile Forces, SSBNs, the bulk of tactical nuclear weapons and most of the leadership have been destroyed.

The economy has been thrown back decades, but it must be admitted that the losses of the population of the Russian Federation in such a blow will not exceed even a third. Many cities will remain unaffected by the war at all, and along with them, tens of millions of people who will learn about this horror from the means of alerting the Ministry of Emergency Situations.

Theoretically, Russia as such will remain, and psychologically one-time high losses do not lead to a breakdown of the will to fight. It will be necessary to somehow build on the achieved success, preventing us from coming up with any tricks with the remaining tactical nuclear weapons.

History tells us what methods the Americans will use.

During the Second World War, trying to break the will of the Germans and Japanese to resist, at a certain moment they began to destroy the cities. The most striking examples of such strikes are the bombing of Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and if we take into account the British, then, of course, Dresden. The latter, by the way, was bombed in many respects so that the advancing Red Army did not receive a surprise on the left flank, so we must reproach the allies for this, but the principle is worth noticing.

After that, strikes against the civilian population became the hallmark of the Americans. They did not resort to them as long as it was possible to do without it, but if this was not possible, then they did not hesitate to resort to this practice.

You can recall the carpet bombing of North Vietnam, which destroyed all life on 26% of the country's territory, as well as Agent Orange ...

By the way, if in Vietnam it was used to destroy vegetation in which partisans were hiding, then in Laos it was used to destroy rice fields and deprive the population of food. According to American strategists, this deprived the Pathet Lao front of its mobilization resource, since the population was forced to leave the war zones under the threat of starvation. And this, by the way, is already the 70th.

They, in the end, always begin to destroy the "peace" directly.

But in the course of the coming world war, the scale will be completely different.

What can be used for the same actions against Russia?

Of course, the United States will have bombers, but it must be admitted that there will not be many of them. B-1 will be written off completely by that time. The B-52 will still be in service, as will cruise missiles for them, but, perhaps, in a smaller number than today, they will be over 70 years old by this time.

B-2 and B-21 will be busy with the defeat of important military targets with not precisely known coordinates, and this will be an uncontested means, they will have already suffered losses by that time, and, apparently, they will not risk them for the sake of cities, at least they will try not to risk. In addition, there are doubts that the degrading American military-industrial complex will produce a sufficient number of "Raiders" by the required date. But this, in fact, does not matter.

The Americans can use aviation, but they are not the only tool.

The second tool for a truly devastating, genocidal strike will be the same SSBNs that went to the base for missiles.

Theoretically, this could be tactical aviation from neighboring countries, but it is unlikely - they would be better off staying out of the war until the final clean-up of already completely defeated Russia begins, when the risk of a tactical nuclear strike on their territories becomes minimal.

That is, the United States will cope here without allies.

But at sea, where, far from our shores, it will be necessary to deploy anti-submarine lines and naval search and strike groups in order to suppress the actions of our submarine, the allies will quite help - but quietly, without attracting attention.

Subtotals


Let's draw brief conclusions from all of the above.

First. By the mid-thirties or earlier, the United States will have to choose between destroying its rivals in a world war or de facto self-destruction as the world hegemon.

Second. The cultural characteristics and mentality of Americans makes the choice of the extermination option possible.

The third. The most rational and beneficial for the United States would be a military defeat of the Russian Federation, followed by forcing the PRC to surrender on relatively benign terms.

Fourth. For such a defeat, it is critically important to destroy the Russian strategic nuclear forces, and the United States still has the technical ability to do this with the Strategic Missile Forces and long-range aviation, and will have it for some time.

The main striking force of the United States in such an operation, without which it is, in principle, impossible, will be the fleet.

Thus, a world nuclear war will be naval.
No chains of enemy infantry among native aspens, no tank columns near Volokolamsk. If only later, when everything has already been decided - in the sea, in the air and in space.

Options to survive


Living people are fighting, and they make decisions based on their personal attitudes. We do not know to what extent Americans will be deterred by the risk of losses in retaliation.

Approximate estimates of the consequences of various strikes against the United States are in the article “Nuclear illusion. It will not work to "glaze" the enemy ", and it is clear that we cannot completely destroy the United States - there will not be enough charges. But we will inflict huge losses.

What if fear of these losses remains a significant deterrent for the American leadership?

Then, in conditions when all our defense systems are bypassed with a nuclear missile strike from a short distance, it is necessary to ensure the absolute inevitability of a retaliatory strike.

This is the task fleetincluding underwater.

It is SSBNs, whether their combat stability is ensured, and their numbers are sufficient for a powerful strike, and can become such an instrument of inevitable retaliation. But for this, the boats themselves, the forces that ensure their deployment, and the training of personnel must correspond to the complexity of the task.

What if fear of loss is not a deterrent?

Then the only way would be to disrupt the blow inflicted by the enemy. And this is also the task of the fleet.

Once again, the future world war, if it does come to it, will be predominantly naval, and not some other. And it's not for nothing that all developed countries are investing in fleets.

Looking into the abyss


And here it is time for us to look into the future and answer the question: "What kind of fleet will we have in 2030"?

It is clear that we are not ready and are not preparing.

But, firstly, it is of interest that exactly how unprepared we are - and there is something to see.

And secondly, it would be unfair to criticize the current state of affairs without proposing any urgent measures to remedy the situation here and now.

This will be done in the next few articles. We will see what kind of fleet we will have in 2030, if we do everything as it is done, and what kind of fleet we can have in 2030, if we do it a little differently.

Продолжение следует ...
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597 comments
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  1. +22
    22 October 2021 05: 12
    Продолжение следует ...

    Are you kidding me, Mr. Timokhin? On the eve of the weekend, are you painting a picture of an apocalypse without options for Russia?
    What is this decadence?
    Attacking NATO countries is useless, as it will not stop the American attack

    It is necessary to attack NATO countries (in case of specific threats) !!! Moreover, the leadership of these countries should know that everything that in these countries is capable of snapping at Russia will be destroyed along with its contents, so as not to cultivate a desire to deploy American missiles on their territory, which can significantly reduce the time of a missile attack.
    You can also chase American nuclear submarines from the air, dropping anti-submarine torpedoes in the detection areas (spacecraft are still being produced in Russia ???) Missile defense systems will also allow you to weaken the attack ... BUT !!!
    But what about the Perimeter system? It is unlikely that the "world elite" will have a desire to receive "vigorous gifts" from Russia, even if the chances are 1:10 ...
    Thanks! Consoled! Keep going!
    1. +14
      22 October 2021 06: 49
      Wow !!!
      As if it were again in the army for the political information visited! And if it was not conducted by our political officer, a member of the database in Afghanistan, but some young lieutenant with youthful enthusiasm in his eyes.
      The article was probably written in a "leather jacket" and with a "Mauser" on the belt.
      1. -1
        22 October 2021 06: 54
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        The article was probably written in "leather" and with a "Mauser" on the belt.

        This is an iconic image.
        1. +3
          22 October 2021 07: 58
          Well, where is the main result? Who will win after the exchange of nuclear missile strikes? Well, why such a "victory"?
          I understand why Europe needs to protect its wealth, no one there wants to receive a pension of 15 rubles and take out a loan to pay for heating in the winter, as suggested by the head of Teplosbyt in Ufa.
          And whose interests and what wealth should the Russians protect? Loans?
          1. +3
            22 October 2021 08: 16
            Quote: Civil
            Who will win after the exchange of nuclear missile strikes? Well, why such a "victory"? And whose interests and what wealth should the Russians protect? Loans?

            After the exchange of nuclear missile strikes, anarchy will finally come.
            1. -4
              22 October 2021 08: 35

              Nestor Ivanovich approve!
            2. 0
              26 October 2021 18: 53
              But we will not see it.
          2. +1
            22 October 2021 08: 57
            And whose interests and what wealth should the Russians protect? Loans?

            Class! Here it is, scraping! laughing
            1. 0
              26 October 2021 18: 54
              This is not a brace, this is the usual foolishness of an idiot.
          3. +19
            22 October 2021 10: 13
            Quote: Civil
            whose interests and what wealth should the Russians protect? Loans?

            Protect your children and grandchildren, parents, brothers and sisters, wives ...

            To Article
            it would be unfair to criticize the current state of affairs without proposing any urgent remedial action here and now.

            SSBNs are few (and the Fleet is weak), mine launchers of ICBMs will be hit with high accuracy in the first place. Mobile ground complexes are also vulnerable, and their routes are most likely known to the enemy ...
            The guarantee of the survival of the Strategic Missile Forces of our country from a global attack by the enemy, in my opinion, will be: BZHRK (on a platform imitating a freight train) and the massive construction of SSGNs (on platform 955, in an amount at least comparable to SSBNs). Finding BZHRK among thousands of railway trains and hitting them all will be an almost insoluble task. And constant tracking not for 8-10 nuclear submarines, but for 16-20 submarines will require from the enemy more than a twofold increase in forces and means. However, all this will not be easy to bring to life, taking into account modern realities ...
            1. +10
              22 October 2021 11: 12
              I am amazed at the childish naivety of certain citizens in matters of American reality))) they believe in the nonsense that is shown to them on TV and the Internet. Two friends live in the USA, what they say is very different from those blissful pictures that mattress advertisers draw for suckers from all over the world)))
              1. +2
                22 October 2021 14: 47
                do you think what is written in the article is nonsense?
                1. +3
                  22 October 2021 17: 54
                  Not all, but most of them are unambiguous. To understand an American, and even then not quite to the end, can only be a person who has lived in the United States for a long time (5-10 years).
                  1. 0
                    22 October 2021 22: 51
                    Not all, but most of them are unambiguous

                    absolutely agree, almost all nonsense
                    To understand an American, and even then not quite to the end, can only be a person who has lived in the United States for a long time (5-10 years).

                    this is what ordinary Americans are concerned with. And what do the so-called. "elite", even having lived there, probably, you will not recognize
                    1. +1
                      22 October 2021 22: 54
                      It may well be that my friends communicate at the usual level - programmers, police officers, doctors.
                  2. 0
                    24 October 2021 12: 57
                    Quote: TermNachTER
                    can only be a person who has lived in the United States for a long time (5 - 10 years).

                    you can not "live 5-10 years".
                    It is enough to contact in some way (business, art, research).
                    I didn’t live, but I did business together for 10-12 years.
                    My wife has been rubbing medicine for 3 years already.
              2. +2
                22 October 2021 19: 32
                Quote: TermNachTER
                I am amazed at the childish naivety of certain citizens in matters of American reality))) they believe in the nonsense that is shown to them on TV and the Internet.

                Nothing new. We had the same thing back in tsarist times.
            2. -3
              22 October 2021 16: 17
              Protect your children and grandchildren, parents, brothers and sisters, wives ...

              and someone threatens them? from whom did you need to protect them?
              1. +6
                22 October 2021 19: 33
                Quote: andybuts
                and someone threatens them?

                How are you going to convince the Americans that they should not kill your relatives?
                1. -10
                  22 October 2021 22: 47
                  How are you going to convince the Americans that they should not kill your relatives?

                  what nonsense! Are the Americans going to kill my family? Why would they suddenly need it?
                  1. +1
                    23 October 2021 06: 35
                    Quote: andybuts
                    Are the Americans going to kill my family? Why would they suddenly need it?

                    And you do not know what they are doing in the war?
                    1. -5
                      23 October 2021 10: 02
                      I guess. But why should the Americans fight Russia?
                      1. +3
                        23 October 2021 10: 04
                        Quote: andybuts
                        But why should the Americans fight Russia?

                        Do you even know what is being discussed here?
                      2. -3
                        23 October 2021 10: 06
                        Yes, in the course, discussing the author's delirium.
                        But his fantasies cannot be the cause of the war between the US and Russia.
                      3. 0
                        23 October 2021 10: 08
                        Quote: andybuts

                        But his fantasies cannot be the cause of the war

                        The war can start absolutely regardless of the wishes of the author. As well as yours.
                      4. -4
                        23 October 2021 10: 19
                        can certainly. But the war can be different. But I mean that the Americans do not sleep and do not see how to destroy Russia, as the author writes. There are some moral ones, of course, but this is not a mass phenomenon.
                        And there are no sane reasons for the US attack on Russia now, and it is not foreseen in the future either. We have nothing to take from us, and we are not competitors for the United States, except in very narrow areas. I will sooner believe in the possibility of a war with Turkey, when the Turkish sultan and the Russian tsar, because of something they know, want to measure their strength, for example, in Syria they will not share something. Although here the capitals of the two countries will be against in 2016, we have already seen this.
                      5. 0
                        23 October 2021 11: 47
                        Quote: andybuts
                        We have nothing to take from us, and we are not competitors for the United States, except in very narrow areas.

                        And that's why they are constantly trying to put a spoke in their wheels in all possible ways, except for a direct armed conflict ..
                      6. -6
                        23 October 2021 18: 25
                        in what they put a spoke in your wheels, in what ways? Maybe, for example, the Americans carried out a pension reform for us, or do they want to reduce the health budget for 2022 in the midst of a pandemic by 10% by order of the Americans? Or do the Americans dictate to "United Russia" all laws adopted against the population?
                      7. +2
                        23 October 2021 18: 30
                        Quote: andybuts
                        in what they put a spoke in your wheels, in what ways?

                        We read news about sanctions, read about attempts to disrupt the construction of SP2, read about numerous attempts to arrange a new revolution in our country, etc.
                      8. -3
                        23 October 2021 18: 52
                        do not read. A revolution requires a revolutionary situation, except for our own government no one can create it.
                        about sanctions, we read about attempts to disrupt the construction of SP2

                        Are you on the list of sanctions, like Deripaska or what? Or a top manager of Sberbank or VTB, who were cut off from Western funding? What do you care about sanctions? Attempts to disrupt the construction of SP2 should worry you if you are a shareholder of Gazprom. It is clear that the United States has the right to take any sanctions against anyone. But sanctions are not the same thing as a nuclear missile strike against Russia, including cities with a population of over one million with the risk of retaliation even against one city.
                        They are a big economy and can arrange problems for anyone they want. Unless they can impose sanctions against China and the EU countries painlessly for themselves. About that SP2 I am more worried about why the country is not doing anything to change the way of the economy from a raw material to a high-tech one. Why are they not trying to create conditions to make the economy oriented towards the domestic market? I cannot ask the US government - there are citizens there.
                      9. +1
                        23 October 2021 20: 29
                        Quote: andybuts
                        Revolution needs a revolutionary situation

                        Theoretically. But this is practically.

                        Quote: andybuts
                        But sanctions are not the same thing as a nuclear missile strike against Russia, including cities with a population of over one million with the risk of retaliation even against one city.
                        Not the same, but if they have such an opportunity, they will use it.
                        Quote: andybuts
                        Why are they not trying to create conditions to make the economy oriented towards the domestic market?
                        Because we are not half a billion.
                      10. 0
                        24 October 2021 10: 57
                        Theoretically. But this is practically.
                        there was no revolution in Ukraine, one part of the elite replaced another.
                        Not the same, but if they have such an opportunity, they will use it.
                        Opportunities still exist. We need more reasons for this, oh what significant ones. And the United States has no such reasons, and is not foreseen in the future. Give at least one reason for this. And predict the reaction of the world's population (and the United States itself) to such a blow.
                        Because we are not half a billion.
                        half a billion is only in China and India, but many developed, less populated countries are guided by the domestic market. For it is necessary to increase the well-being of citizens, reduce inequality, eradicate poverty, but for our government and our authorities these are not goals at all
                      11. -4
                        24 October 2021 12: 48
                        Quote: andybuts
                        there was no revolution in Ukraine

                        The Ukrainians themselves will not agree.
                        Quote: andybuts
                        Opportunities still exist.

                        Yes? And what opportunities do they have not to receive in return?
                        Quote: andybuts
                        but many developed, not most populated countries are guided by the domestic market

                        For example?
                      12. 0
                        24 October 2021 20: 46
                        The Ukrainians themselves will not agree.

                        what revolutionary happened there?
                        Yes? And what opportunities do they have not to receive in return?

                        if you take the article on faith, then the same thing can be done now. what will they do here for 10 years? or even 10 years later, the answer will be possible.
                        For example?

                        Canada, UK, France and even Australia
                      13. -3
                        24 October 2021 21: 04
                        Quote: andybuts
                        what revolutionary happened there?

                        Change of power to colonial.
                        Quote: andybuts
                        if you take the article on faith, then the same thing can be done now

                        It's not about the article, but about their desires.
                        Quote: andybuts
                        Canada, UK, France and even Australia

                        Offhand.
                        France is now furious over the loss of a multibillion-dollar contract to supply ships to Australia.
                        Cumulative UK exports totaled $ 399 billion in 2020. The decrease in the supply of goods from the UK in value terms was 14,6% Compared to 2019: Exports of goods decreased by $ 68 billion (in 2019, goods in the amount of $ 468 billion were supplied from the UK).
                      14. +3
                        24 October 2021 21: 20
                        Change of power to colonial.

                        It's not about the article, but about their desires.

                        write nonsense like the author of the article. even there is nothing to comment on.
                        Offhand.
                        France is now furious over the loss of a multibillion-dollar contract to supply ships to Australia.
                        Cumulative UK exports totaled $ 399 billion in 2020. The decrease in the supply of goods from the UK in value terms was 14,6% Compared to 2019: Exports of goods decreased by $ 68 billion (in 2019, goods in the amount of $ 468 billion were supplied from the UK).

                        Look at the UK balance of payments, it better characterizes the economies focused on the domestic market.
                      15. 0
                        25 October 2021 19: 28
                        Quote: andybuts
                        nonsense write like the author of the article

                        And what is wrong?
                        Quote: andybuts
                        View UK balance of payments

                        $ 966407 million in revenue
                      16. 0
                        26 October 2021 08: 20
                        $ 966407 million in revenue

                        xs where the data is from you. stop
                        https://ru.investing.com/economic-calendar/current-account-83

                        data on the site since 2008, all negative.
                      17. 0
                        26 October 2021 19: 53
                        Quote: andybuts
                        data on the site since 2008, all negative.

                        I know. The point is that the size of the revenue side of the budget of England is only 2 times more than the income from exports.
                      18. +1
                        26 October 2021 19: 09
                        And you live in poverty and the computer from which you print this dregs bought for the last pennies, denying yourself food?
                      19. 0
                        29 October 2021 21: 17
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Because we are not half a billion

                        and you don't need half a billion .... you need to do it because there are more good specialists to train. To motivate people to gain knowledge and not entertainment ... Imagine, before science, set the task of creating a cheap 3D printer that can print consumer goods. The industry is tasked with providing such printers with consumables and such a printer for every family. How much money will remain in circulation !!! I'm exaggerating this, of course, but it's not about the number of the population, but about its quality! You need to eradicate Consumerism with a hot iron and set a goal!
                      20. +1
                        29 October 2021 21: 39
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        and you don't need half a billion .... you need to do it because there are more good specialists to train. Motivate people to gain knowledge, not entertainment ...

                        Suppose and what to do with what they produce? For the industry to work, we need those who will consume what it produces. An appropriate market is needed, and without a large population, there is nowhere to get it.
                      21. 0
                        30 October 2021 07: 31
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        For the industry to work, we need those who will consume what it produces.

                        this is true for consumer goods, luxury and entertainment. If you think about the prospect of development for a couple of generations ahead, very serious problems will immediately arise !!!
                        You see, the consumer industry tied to the base animal instinct of domination turns Humanity into a community of rats in a can and is the cause of wars.
                        In 1955, gasification of Moscow was carried out, gas was pulled from the Saratov oil and gas field, now it is being pulled from Yamal. Only then we did not sell gas in such volumes as now. How long will we have enough resources with such a consumption?
                        In order not to become like rats, you need to think about Space, about Development, yes, yes! development with a capital letter. How to measure it? In dollars per capita consumed or in the number of books read, competencies acquired?
                      22. +1
                        30 October 2021 11: 39
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        In order not to become like rats, you need to think about Space, about Development, yes, yes! development with a capital letter.

                        Namely, the civil sector is the backbone of any economy. Everyone will not fly into space, but everyone needs to eat, drink and sleep at all times. It is not surprising that in the same USSR, all the articles about the next grandiose discovery / construction, etc. they caused nothing but irritation.
                      23. +1
                        30 October 2021 11: 45
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        It is not surprising that in the same USSR, all the articles about the next grandiose discovery / construction, etc. they caused nothing but irritation.

                        In the late USSR, there was a shortage of entertainment and excessive dogmatic pressure. There should be a balance. Now exactly the opposite and also ... irritation.
                      24. -1
                        30 October 2021 14: 23
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        In the late USSR, there was a shortage of entertainment and

                        Not only. I'm talking specifically about the economy - the civil sector was very poorly developed.
                      25. 0
                        30 October 2021 19: 29
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        the civil sector was very poorly developed.

                        there were excesses, something was overdeveloped and something was underdeveloped, for example, the textile industry, there were a lot of fabrics, any ... laughing ... Polymer chemistry lagged behind. As time has shown, this is the main thing in the civil sector. But the most unpleasant thing is the miscalculations in ideology, and this is already social underdevelopment. If you set the task not to hush up the problem, but to solve it, then everything will be fine. And in the Union they were hushed up ... silence can be considered a lie. This is what teachers think laughing
                      26. 0
                        30 October 2021 19: 46
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        If you set the task not to hush up the problem, but to solve it, then everything will be fine.

                        This is also true.
                        But this does not negate the need for a human resource. The USSR, together with the satellite countries, could pull, Russia is not big enough.
                      27. 0
                        30 October 2021 19: 56
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Russia is not big enough.

                        with modern technology, size doesn't matter. If we launch a thermonuclear fusion plant in Sarov, introduce a currency called the energy ruble, and introduce into the Constitution the concept of social justice with elements of socialism, then we are world leaders by a wide margin.
                      28. +1
                        30 October 2021 20: 22
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        with modern technology, size doesn't matter. If we

                        We will provide everyone with washing machines, then the factories for their production can be closed, because they will not be needed for about 10 years. And so in everything.
                      29. +2
                        30 October 2021 21: 45
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        We will provide everyone with washing machines, then the factories for their production can be closed, because they will not be needed for about 10 years. And so in everything.

                        The most successful economy can only be planned. With modern tools, this is an easily solvable problem, there will be exactly as many factories for the production of washing machines as needed.
                        In general, I believe that there is no need to dismantle modern capitalism. You just need to create several science-intensive enterprises with a socialist system: planning, the domestic currency that can be sold, the minimum wage gap is no more than 10 times, and .... in short, read A. Khodov "sharashka priest" and the continuation, earn a little extra money. The point is to create, in parallel with the existing system, a competitive, socialist one.
                        In the modern world, by the way, there are successful examples: the Mondragor corporation in Spain was created according to this principle.
                      30. -1
                        30 October 2021 22: 18
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        The most successful economy can only be planned.

                        Up to a certain limit. In principle, this is implemented everywhere - do you think the same Musk is just a private trader?
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        The point is to create, in parallel with the existing system, a competitive, socialist one.

                        People remain people.
                      31. +1
                        30 October 2021 22: 25
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        People remain people.

                        In the sense of animals? that is, nothing but deep instincts? But what about the fact that socialism is a modified herd instinct? laughing
                      32. 0
                        30 October 2021 22: 27
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        But what about the fact that socialism is a modified herd instinct?

                        So how was it built?
                      33. 0
                        30 October 2021 22: 36
                        the herd instinct is activated in conditions that threaten the existence of the population. If the task of the state is to unite its citizens, then it will not introduce permission to travel abroad as an antiquated measure. Vice versa.
                        I want to remind you that in our country there are elements of socialism for which our grandfathers fought: free education, medicine and even housing for social rent!
                        In order to activate the unification of people, it is enough to give a command. For example, organize a normal antiquated company with an appeal to get vaccinated, feel the community !!! the trouble is that this gives rise to the phenomenon of a social contract: - We have taken root, now let us have a fair distribution of wealth! The authorities are afraid of this!
                        precisely because the Power does not consider itself a part of the people and the whole trouble!
                        What will happen if the Yeltsin Center is canceled? Power will lose legitimacy!
                      34. -1
                        31 October 2021 06: 56
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        the herd instinct is activated in conditions that threaten the existence of the population.

                        Do you propose to constantly fight (to fight, in the literal sense of the word) continuously? It doesn't work any other way.
                      35. The comment was deleted.
                      36. +5
                        25 October 2021 14: 36
                        Quote: andybuts
                        do not read. A revolution requires a revolutionary situation, except for our own government no one can create it. ...


                        It's Easy!
                        It has already been created.
                        For example, I spend a lot of time over the past 15 years on various entertainment portals.
                        And I can say that these portals have changed a lot.
                        They became very politicized and most of the readers, those between 15 and 35, grew up in this cut.
                        Almost all of them are now ready for change and are waiting for change.
                        They are against the authorities already.
                        Modern youth for the most part - especially Moscow, especially well-fed - is so "highly moral", hating the authorities for any reason:
                        They did not introduce Lockdown, people began to die - the authorities are to blame!
                        Lockdown was introduced, fitness and barbershops were closed - the authorities are to blame!

                        Now absolutely any action that takes place in the country on the Internet is discussed in the context of the failure of power and Putin personally, fascism, a pack of friends, corruption and all that!
                        Any action.
                        They built a road - Putin's friends profited from the people, they stole billions!
                        They began to drive out the squatters of the land - again, Putin is personally to blame, the people do not allow them to live!
                        In the minibus, the migrant driver insulted the passenger - Putin is personally to blame, he brought this migrant.
                        That is how, for the past 10 years, every day in the young minds of millions of young Internet users, drop by drop, Putin's own guilt for everything is being introduced.
                        And this is bearing fruit.
                        They already want a revolution.
                        Of course, they do not want to understand anything about how and by whom such an anti-government attitude and situation is created, and they do not want to understand that we, like in Ukraine, will have a violent civil war.
                        But, which no one will allow us. Nobody will separate the troops in different directions.
                        They will begin to take away the "disputable" territories ...
                      37. +1
                        30 October 2021 08: 00
                        Quote: SovAr238A
                        It's Easy!
                        It has already been created.

                        + smile I join you, I just would like to clarify, a revolutionary situation is when the upper classes cannot govern and the lower classes do not want to live in the old way in a closed society.
                        You are describing a situation when a fifth column is being formed in Russia in the interests of foreign capital, with the help of the media.
                        Otherwise, it is absolutely true that the sins of the system are blamed on a person, in this case, Putin.
                        In this situation, it is important to identify the enemy or exploiter. How do you like this point of view: - in our time, the total exploiter is financial capital. With the help of inflation (the emission of money, when the purchasing power of money migrates from your pocket to newly printed money) industrial capital, states, people are plundered. The military and political capabilities of Financial Capital exceed those of all states combined. The first World War II and the second World War II confirm this.
                        however, despite the dissatisfaction you describe, Navalny was imprisoned, because people, perhaps even unconsciously, understand that he was not accusing him of proposing a change in the vicious system. And it is Industrial Capital and the principles of social equality that should rule the country.
                      38. 0
                        1 November 2021 23: 11
                        ... Now absolutely any action that takes place in the country on the Internet is discussed in the context of the failure of power and Putin personally, fascism, a pack of friends, corruption and all that!

                        Bravo!
                        ... there will be a violent civil war.
                        But, which no one will allow us. Nobody will separate the troops in different directions.
                        They will begin to take away the "disputable" territories ...

                        Very clearly and aptly written.
                        hi
                      39. 0
                        27 November 2021 08: 42
                        Quote: andybuts
                        But sanctions are not the same thing as a nuclear missile strike against Russia, including cities with a population of over one million with the risk of a retaliatory strike, even if only against one city.


                        If some measures do not work, then it is time to use more stringent ones.
                        Although the Yankees are unlikely to decide on a nuclear war in the foreseeable future, I agree here.
                        The costs are too great.
                        The author of the topic is clearly exaggerating. It seems that he simply has no idea what the consequences will be for the US economy and finances even after a very limited mutual nuclear strike between the US and the Russian Federation.
                        On September 11, several buildings were destroyed and less than 4 thousand people died. However, the blow to the economy was serious. And if 20 million Yankees die and only direct damage will amount to trillions of dollars (real estate, infrastructure, destroyed enterprises and power plants)? What will become of the "investment attractiveness", with the shares of American companies?
                        Everything will sprinkle. It is precisely because of its technical advancement that the United States is much more vulnerable than Russia.
                        High-precision laboratory scales are easier to break than barn scales.
                      40. 0
                        27 November 2021 08: 34
                        Quote: andybuts
                        Maybe, for example, the Americans carried out a pension reform for us, or do they want to reduce the health budget for 2022 in the midst of a pandemic by 10% by the order of the Americans?


                        In the economic sphere, we are still ruled by liberals brought up by Western "experts."
                        So - YES!
                      41. 0
                        26 October 2021 19: 03
                        And no one will ask the opinions of ordinary Yankees, just like yours, although your fear is understandable.
                      42. 0
                        26 October 2021 19: 01
                        And he doesn't have to ...)
                  2. 0
                    26 October 2021 19: 00
                    And why did the Nazis want to kill your grandfather / great-grandfather.
            3. 0
              22 October 2021 18: 20
              Quote: Doccor18
              mine launchers of ICBMs will be hit with high precision and in the first place. Mobile ground complexes are also vulnerable, and their routes are most likely known to the enemy ...

              Both mine and ground ones are already well covered by anti-missile systems. And by 2030, it is planned to put on alert a sufficient number of S-500 complexes to guarantee protection against any configuration of the first strike.
              1. +7
                23 October 2021 01: 21
                How many fairy tales can you tell? We do not have complexes now capable of overthrowing an ICBM warhead.
                In fact, the S-500 has just appeared, and no military budget will be enough to build so many of them to cover all positional areas.
                Storytellers-kindergarteners really got it already.
                1. +4
                  23 October 2021 15: 56
                  To compensate for the threat of a quick disarming / decapitating strike, you can ONLY create a mirror threat to the territory of the United States. In Soviet times, it was enough to re-deploy RSD and KR on the territory of Cuba with the right of the group commander to make an independent decision on combat use.
                  And get the parity of fear.
                  Stalin, Khrushchev, and even Brezhnev would have made just such a decision.
                  But Gorbachev ended up in the Kremlin and completely capitulated.

                  Judging by the actions (and inaction) of the authorities, no one is going to take any measures.
                  This means that the case of Gorbachev / Yeltsin lives on and wins.
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  In fact, the S-500 has just appeared, and no military budget will be enough to build so many of them to cover all positional areas.

                  There is a good radar, and missiles are also quite for themselves, but there is really too little time left for a reaction. A flat trajectory, this is a late detection, and multifunctional radars cannot be turned on around the clock 365 days a year ... The "container" can of course record the moment of launch and the direction of the strike, but will the missile defense calculations be brought into the full BG ... And yes, you really can't put them everywhere. By 2030, there will be no more than 10 such complexes.
                  And the Kremlin is in no hurry to build a fleet.
                  1. +2
                    24 October 2021 03: 18
                    Was it already before that? There is a food shortage in Kamchatka and Chukotka. It's just that the food is not delivered as expected. Prices are rewritten or decide to hold back until the price rises.
                    But the authorities themselves do not hide the fact that the rise in prices by the end of the year will be wild, inflation may exceed 30-35%.
                    Perhaps there will be attempts by the authorities in the regions to somehow stabilize the situation. But given that a number of retail chains and suppliers are foreign, they will very quickly take us by the throat.
                    They will fight as much as they want.
                    Can you imagine the shortage of fish and seafood in Kamchatka and Chukotka ??? !!!
                    How is this possible ???? And it is, it will be!
                    Meanwhile, in Japan, military hysteria is being whipped up over the Kuril Islands. Both politicians and social activists. That only the war and the islands are ours.
                    Is it all accidental? And what should people do? At least to keep yourself distant from this vicious system until it covers us all?
                    1. -2
                      24 October 2021 05: 12
                      The food crisis this year was being prepared ahead of time - in the south of Russia (and not only), the harvest of potatoes, vegetables, berries, fruits was destroyed - under bulldozers.
                      This is a planned operation.
                      As before the collapse of the Union, when in Moscow (!) The shelves were empty.
                      Quote: Osipov9391
                      Perhaps there will be attempts by the authorities in the regions to somehow stabilize the situation.

                      Judging by the behavior of these local authorities over the past two years in carrying out the covidle genocide, they will not stabilize anything. They have already decided everything for themselves.
                      Quote: Osipov9391
                      Meanwhile, in Japan, military hysteria is being whipped up over the Kuril Islands. Both politicians and social activists. That only the war and the islands are ours.

                      They have been waiting for a long time for this to begin in the Russian Federation. And it looks like they waited.
                      Quote: Osipov9391
                      Is it all accidental?

                      Of course not . Everything goes according to plan .
                      Quote: Osipov9391
                      And what should people do?

                      Survive.
                      Just survive without any hope of power.
                      Rather, even survive despite all the actions of the authorities.
                      Remember the experience of the 90s, have a long-term storage of food, salt, matches, tools, weapons. Warm and durable clothing.
                      Before dawn, the darkness is always especially impenetrable and painful.
                      1. +2
                        24 October 2021 15: 15
                        For reference, I'll tell you what happened in my city in the early 90s and later.
                        There was a severe shortage of food and consumer goods. Even the toilet paper and soap were given to the parents alone. Canned food was also given. And other.
                        But there was work at the enterprises and partly there (there were subsidiary farms) and the bosses helped as much as they could - they allocated meat, vegetables, etc. Well, there were OPCs, subsidiary plots, etc.
                        There were savings on books. But there was not much to spend them on. And then the Gaidar government devalues ​​these savings. People remain beggars.
                        Then they begin privatization and say they say wake up the owners of their factories. Here are the promotions, here are the vouchers. But people did not know what it was and how to use it.
                        And since there was nothing to live on, those who offered to buy these pieces of paper immediately appeared. Someone for a bottle, someone for money. Someone even for a new car. And people exchanged them for what.
                        And then they did not notice how they began to work for someone else's uncle - oligarchs and foreigners began to own their factories. They just "legally" bought shares and vouchers from the people, taking advantage of their impoverishment.
                        But the directors of the enterprises helped the employees to survive - they gave land plots for free.
                        Then it seemed to stabilize a little, but 1998 finished everything off completely. The people became even more impoverished.
                        Then, in the 2000s, some of the enterprises were simply destroyed, in the other part they simply changed the leadership and installed such that they turned to the people not in a face, but in a different place. Although I do not even say so. They stupidly began to close subsidiary farms, stopped giving out plots, apartments, etc. Well, they deprived the people of all methods of support.
                        In most cases, these types were henchmen of Chubais and the like.
                        And yes, I must say that then in the 90s there was still a significant influence of the Communist Party. They held meetings and strikes, their members were directors of factories and sat in government bodies. Well, they did, they helped as much as they could. And then, in the 2000s, all this began to disappear.
                      2. 0
                        24 October 2021 18: 33
                        It was so with us too.
                        It will be much worse now. But the experience of the 90s can help and suggest.
                        Like the experience of the Civil War, but this is already a book experience and according to the stories of relatives.
                      3. 0
                        24 October 2021 18: 59
                        Now people have no one to rely on - there will be no work, no red directors that they helped in the 90s, no help of any kind.
                        And the authorities will simply close people in apartments under the guise of fighting the pandemic.
                        But they will not be able to sit out - there will be nothing stupid.
                        And then the refrigerator will start to beat the TV.
                        Even if we take the food shortage arising in the Far East, it plays into the hands of the Japanese. Can disrupt all mobilization activities in the event of a conflict. The people will not be able to consolidate.
                      4. +1
                        26 October 2021 15: 40
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        They stupidly began to close subsidiary farms, stopped giving out plots, apartments, etc. Well, they deprived the people of all methods of support.

                        Up to this point, everything is fine with you both chronologically and logically. But then ...
                        Good. Maybe for you a subsidiary farm (and this is either a livestock mini-farm, or a greenhouse vegetable garden, right?) At a manufacturing enterprise, this is normal, but for the country's economy, and for the workers themselves, this is just shame and disgrace! In the dashing 90s, when hyperinflation "devoured" all income, there was no way out. And my father (the driver of a dump truck of a construction organization) tended cows, received milk, meat ... But! As soon as the financial "sea" calmed down, salaries became more or less stable and they began to be more or less enough (and this is the beginning of the 2000s), of course, everyone gave up subsistence farming and returned to their main activity! And you about this with such regret - "deprived the people of all methods of support." Yes, people were happy that they could buy meat and milk for a salary, and not "fatten" him!

                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        Then, in the 2000s, some of the enterprises were simply destroyed, in the other part they simply changed the leadership and installed such that they turned to the people not in a face, but in a different place.

                        Destroyed? They came straight and bulldozed ... I don’t know, maybe that’s how it was with you. We closed only completely unprofitable ones. So my father's organization was closed in the same way: There was an inter-farm construction brigade. However, the management could not "fit" the organization's services into the new realities. Under the USSR, the plan was lowered and forward. And in the 90s it was necessary to look for clients ourselves. And the clients are not just private traders, but large organizations - for the specificity of this construction team is to build large industrial facilities. So it turned out: someone was able to rebuild (either on his own or thanks to the managers "sent" by Chubais), but someone could not ... The former collective farms around themselves - most of them collapsed, the land was resold a dozen times. There, both individual farmers and neighboring agricultural firms snapped up pieces ... And some survived and are still working. They reorganized, the owners appeared (because no one gave investments just like that!), But as an organization, as a source of work for the villagers, they remained. So "everything is known in comparison".

                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        And yes, I must say that then in the 90s there was still a significant influence of the Communist Party. They held meetings and strikes, their members were directors of factories and sat in government bodies. Well, they did, they helped as much as they could. And then, in the 2000s, all this began to disappear.

                        Yes, I also remember rallies and strikes. Well, people loved to hold rallies! They would have to work, earn money ... But it’s always more pleasant to go out and scream. Moreover, then I noticed one peculiarity - who even then worked for himself, he wanted to spit on all these rallies! He needs to sow / plow / thresh or transport the load! To a hired worker or student what, what? Well, he will find a maximum new job if he is fired for absenteeism. And the owner? Who will sow instead of him? Who will milk the cows?
                        Not, of course, there were normal directors - they thought about people ... But for the most part, as now, all those in power before were worried about their well-being. Capital accumulated, "fat" overgrown.
                      5. +2
                        26 October 2021 15: 07
                        Quote: bayard
                        The food crisis this year was being prepared ahead of time - in the south of Russia (and not only), the harvest of potatoes, vegetables, berries, fruits was destroyed - under bulldozers.
                        This is a planned operation.

                        Whoa! Dear! Hold on! This is where in the south of Russia the harvest was destroyed by bulldozers? Can I hear specific data from you?
                        I live in the south - in the Kuban. The farmers have received a very good potato harvest this year. Onions, cabbage, watermelons - the trucks did not have time to take out. Now they are finishing harvesting potatoes for the second planting date (we harvest the first crop in May-June, the second in October). Yes, there were frosts in the spring, in winter many greenhouses fell down with snow, early strawberries and tulips froze ... But this happens from time to time in our country. More or less ready for such "whims" of the weather. For all of Russia I will not say, but in the South everything is fine with the harvest. And we are already preparing for sowing next spring.
                  2. UFO
                    0
                    15 November 2021 21: 14
                    Today, nuclear safety is ensured by the parity of nuclear forces and the fear of self-destruction. However, it does not guarantee either protection from the "fool" in the aging and stupidity of the owners of nuclear suitcases, or from accidental failures in ever more complex automatic control systems.
                    That is why it is time to switch to the concept of guaranteed nuclear safety, when a nuclear attack on the enemy becomes either impossible (weapons do not fire and missiles do not take off), or is disarmed at the start.
                    Such a concept is possible and consists in political coercion to peace or in the preventive defeat of all nuclear weapons of the aggressor.
                    The concept is achieved through the creation of new types of weapons - "flying saucers" with a grazer on board, which can almost instantly appear over the enemy's territory
                    1. 0
                      15 November 2021 23: 22
                      Quote: UFO
                      Such a concept is possible and consists in political coercion to peace or in the preventive defeat of all nuclear weapons of the aggressor.

                      Well, the United States and came to such a concept, and actively promote it. And received approval from its NATO allies.

                      Plates were actively used in 1990 to force the Soviet leadership to surrender.
                      Our alien allies are late.
            4. +4
              22 October 2021 18: 38
              How did you get it with your BZHRK ,,, Without getting up from the couch I can show that this is still a mess, and they have NO advantages over the same ground complexes !!!
              1. +2
                22 October 2021 22: 48
                Quote: Not the fighter
                BZHRK ... I can show that this is still a mess, and they have NO advantages over the same soil complexes !!!

                What is this statement based on?

                For "that still mess," too actively "partners" pushed first to make the BZHRK restricted to travel abroad, and then to destroy them altogether ...
                But unpaved Poplars do not really bother anyone ...
                The most important unmasking problem of the BZHRK is the presence of three diesel locomotives at once, which can be solved with the help of a modern element base, possibly lighter, a decrease in the mass and size characteristics of a future ICBM, an increase in the efficiency of the power plants of diesel locomotives ...
                1. +2
                  22 October 2021 23: 24
                  I explain:
                  1. Development.
                  The most important unmasking problem of the BZHRK is the presence of three diesel locomotives at once, which can be solved with the help of a modern element base, possibly lighter, a decrease in the mass and size characteristics of a future ICBM, an increase in the efficiency of the power plants of diesel locomotives ...

                  New rocket? By the time of development, add 10 years of time + development cost. If you take a rocket from a ground complex, then the question is: if the missiles are the same, then what can a BZHRK do from what a ground complex cannot do?
                  New diesel locomotive "three in one" how is it? The author, tell us how it is possible to "remove" 3 times more power from the same engine with the help of a modern element base? Or will we also develop a new diesel engine 3 times more powerful in the same dimensions?
                  I was especially pleased with the words about the "new element base", which is 3 times more effective than the old one. Why can't it be used elsewhere?
                  2. The railway is a civilian structure and is VERY vulnerable to blows. Vulnerabilities at each station: control room, central processing unit of signaling and interlocking systems, entrance arrows. The entrance arrows are perfectly visible on google maps, you cannot move them. A conventional "ax" will arrive and that's it, wait a few hours until the repair team repairs it. Further, the staff. Do you think that FSB checks all workers up to the tenth generation? Right now !!! It is quite possible that ordinary workers have spies and sabotage groups at the ready, and if something happens, they simply disorganize the work of the station. Mobility aka mobility? ONLY as directed by the dispatcher and no amateur performance !!! And the most important thing. As an important object of railway infrastructure, it is one of the first targets upon impact. Moreover, they will not regret completing missiles to kill the repair crews.
                  3. Disguise. How many axles are you planning? Have we already invented antigrav and the authorities are silent about it ?? The discrepancy between the weight and composition of the train is a serious scouting sign. Those trains that were in the USSR had eight-axle (!!!) bogies. Protection and defense. Are we going to take military equipment with us or just shoot back from a portable one? Military equipment in a "normal" train - it's easier to draw a target right away so that the adversary does not miss.
                  And the most important thing. The service life of the BZHRK is at least 30 years. By the words "service life" I mean the time from the decision to start development to the removal from service of the last instance. BUT!!! Satellite images with a resolution of 5-10 centimeters are already available, and there is an opinion that 5 cm for government agencies. It is not a problem to identify wagons and locomotives, to "calculate" non-standard trains. The task is perfectly parallelized, it can be run on civilian computers, machine vision algorithms are also available. Thus, the secrecy of the BZHRK is a myth.
                  1. +2
                    23 October 2021 09: 21
                    Satellite images with a resolution of 5-10 centimeters are already available, and there is an opinion that 5 cm for government agencies.


                    I do not know how in your area, in Siberia, Transbaikalia, the number of cloudless days is not very many, but there are just very few sunny days. And if you take a little to the north, there are absolutely problems with the sun.
                    Therefore, what's the difference what resolution is in the images if the complexes are mobile, and the terrain is simply hilly, in the Asian part of the country, large flat areas end in the Novosibirsk region.
                  2. 0
                    23 October 2021 17: 43
                    "A conventional" ax "will arrive and that's it, wait a few hours until the repair team repairs it. which simply disorganize the work of the station. " - Hello Fairy Tale.
                2. +6
                  24 October 2021 03: 15
                  Quote: Doccor18
                  For "that still mess," too actively "partners" pushed first to make the BZHRK restricted to travel abroad, and then to destroy them altogether ...
                  But unpaved Poplars do not really bother anyone ...

                  Are you wondering why the Americans were so worried about the BZHRK, and not the soil poplar?
                  Because of the ICBM "Molodets" with 10 warheads of 500 kT.
                  The Americans were afraid of this particular missile.
                  Therefore, the "Well done" were destroyed not only at the BZHRK, but also those that had an underground mobile base - in ring adits, each having 10 mines to start at their choice.
                  ... This very expensive pleasure was realized in the very last Soviet years.
                  It was a very serious rocket, in fact an analogue of the heavy American MX, but with two types of mobile basing.
                  It was these missiles that the Americans ordered to destroy in the first place.
            5. -7
              23 October 2021 08: 43
              Protect your children and grandchildren, parents, brothers and sisters, wives ...

              So we are your hostages? For the sake of your interests, you start a war with NATO, and my relatives and I should die for your interests? And with joyful patriotism? My question is not simple sir.
              1. +1
                23 October 2021 10: 05
                Quote: Civil
                So we are your hostages?

                So you are like Katz?
              2. 0
                26 October 2021 19: 20
                Yes, your question is not simple from stupid.
          4. +2
            22 October 2021 12: 32
            Why did you decide that it would be exactly an exchange?
            1. +4
              22 October 2021 17: 50
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              why did you decide that it would be an exchange?

              Dear Alexander. Do you think that our missile defense "will not work"?
              Case ... .. that judging by those stubborn The steps that our political and military leaders are taking have been staked on an anti-missile shield for our nuclear weapons. Izv. feel
              Everything speaks for the fact that the management puts on warranty from a disarming blow.
              It is on warranty... In the sense that any configuration of a disarming strike knocked out no more than 20% (ideally 0%) of the combat-ready nuclear forces.
              What do you think?
              ------------------
              Another nuance. Warhead 1 mgt. blown up at an altitude of 30 km and above, will give only a damaging electromagnetic pulse. There will be almost no shock wave. Thermal-light radiation will not ignite. And the gamma will be weakened Pts.
              1. +2
                25 October 2021 16: 12
                What kind of missile defense? A235? So she is against piece BBs and only around Moscow. We have no missile defense.
          5. +4
            22 October 2021 13: 25
            Quote: Civil
            And whose interests and what wealth should the Russians protect?

            what Give up in the second second?
            1. +2
              22 October 2021 14: 03
              Who are we surrendering to? Flying vigorous warheads?
              1. +2
                22 October 2021 14: 17
                Quote: t-12
                Who are we surrendering to?

                For this the Civilian knows! I don't know yet ... recourse
          6. -1
            23 October 2021 07: 01
            Quote: Civil
            And whose interests and what wealth should the Russians protect? Loans?

            Putin !! And its stability (rising prices and poverty of the population).
            1. +1
              23 October 2021 22: 25
              You can, of course, die with the name of Putin on your lips (in the sense of scolding him on what the world is) is your right.
          7. +5
            23 October 2021 15: 33
            Quote: Civil
            Well, where is the main result? Who will win after the exchange of nuclear missile strikes? Well, why such a "victory"?

            In the event of the first surprise attack on us by the United States and England, there is no talk and cannot go about any victory for us in the current conditions and in the medium term. In addition, we were promised "Paradise" for a long time ... but for them to "just die", the possibilities are most likely not enough. Yes, not very much in the Kremlin and strive for this. Nobody is preparing for a real war there.
            The USSR was defeated without a war for about the same reason - the RSD in Europe did not give time to make a decision on a retaliatory strike and even ... for a guaranteed evacuation of the Soviet elite. 6 - 10 minutes - flight time. Fly-by. The time from the moment of discovery would have been even less.
            And they gave up.
            At the peak of your own power!
            Although it was enough to JUST create a mirror threat by re-deploying missiles in Cuba.
            But the party nomenclature preferred to surrender.
            RF is by no means the USSR.
            And its elite are by no means ... well, by no means heroes.
            So maybe all these "oddities" of recent years, so reminiscent of the last years of the Union, are not just coincidences?
            Otherwise, we would have watched ALL other actions of the authorities today.
            And in military construction - first of all.
            True, they (the authorities) will have to part with all the assets upon surrender ... but perhaps they will be given severance pay ... or they will simply be given a pension ...
            And all this will happen much earlier than the "early 30s."
            All actions literally say one thing: "We are not even going to think about resistance."
            Alas.
            1. +4
              24 October 2021 06: 54
              I support. But for many of the legion "we can repeat" it makes no sense to prove something. They just can't understand that this is one Caudla ... Those scare "the Russians are coming", these "NATO is pulling forces to our borders" - each for his electorate ... Well, I will add the banal "we'd better hit Voronezh"
          8. 0
            26 October 2021 18: 53
            Your life, although you are probably right, is not important.
      2. +4
        22 October 2021 11: 07
        The author himself answered his own question)))) with an American standard of living, to move to underground shelters (if someone is lucky and he has time) and rot there for years, on canned food? Do they need it?
        1. +4
          22 October 2021 12: 30
          They are not at all the fact that they will have to move somewhere. The disarming strike is real.
          1. +3
            22 October 2021 13: 48
            Is there a 100% guarantee? Most likely no. After living in a villa on Long Island, having a ranch in Texas, a summer house in Florida, enjoying all the benefits of civilization, they will move to a bomb shelter for 5, or even 20 years, would you want to?))))
            1. -1
              22 October 2021 18: 04
              Don't underestimate the bigotry of American elites
              1. +3
                22 October 2021 23: 24
                We return to our rams. Let's compare what you (me) and they are losing. Let's take relatives out of parentheses. Since these are already elderly people, the parents most likely have already died, and they do not have children and grandchildren, because of the "child free" so popular in the West. So, what are we losing: an apartment in Moscow (Zaporozhye), a dacha nearby, a military (cop) pension, a small salary. Correct me if you suddenly forgot something. What does the representative of the mattress elite lose? Everything. The estate is a house somewhere in the fashionable suburb of New York, Washington. Luxurious country houses, most likely a few. All the blessings of civilization that he can imagine. If there is even a 1 - 2% chance that all this will be lost, will the mattress establishment go for it? Provided that they have enough for their age (20 - 30 years), and what will happen then - they do not care, many of them have no children.
                1. +3
                  23 October 2021 01: 23
                  With a successful disarming strike, they do not lose all this with the maximum degree of probability.
                2. -7
                  23 October 2021 08: 39
                  Quote: TermNachTER
                  We return to our rams. Let's compare what you (me) and they are losing. Let's take relatives out of parentheses. Since these are already elderly people, the parents most likely have already died, and they do not have children and grandchildren, because of the "child free" so popular in the West. So, what are we losing: an apartment in Moscow (Zaporozhye), a dacha nearby, a military (cop) pension, a small salary. Correct me if you suddenly forgot something. What does the representative of the mattress elite lose? Everything. The estate is a house somewhere in the fashionable suburb of New York, Washington. Luxurious country houses, most likely a few. All the blessings of civilization that he can imagine. If there is even a 1 - 2% chance that all this will be lost, will the mattress establishment go for it? Provided that they have enough for their age (20 - 30 years), and what will happen then - they do not care, many of them have no children.

                  As I understand it, we and our relatives are hostages of the elite? That is, in order for them to live satisfyingly, we must die for them. Is it okay at all?
                  1. +3
                    23 October 2021 10: 53
                    Do you think that the United States or England and further on the list, a different attitude towards their citizens?))) There, only in words, the value of the life of each person, his rights and freedom is declared. In reality, a person is lying on the street and no one cares about it. In the United States, ambulances have received permission not to make COVID calls if the case is hopeless. How they determine which case on the phone - I don't know.
                3. 0
                  24 October 2021 10: 41
                  The American Elite Don't Have Children? Are you delusional? Not only does he eat, but he does not study according to modern "progressive" methods, but receives a rather classical education in rather conservative educational institutions.
            2. 0
              24 October 2021 07: 41
              Quote: TermNachTER
              After living in a villa on Long Island, having a ranch in Texas, a summer house in Florida, enjoying all the benefits of civilization, they will move to a bomb shelter for 5 years,

              You can just fly to your own villa in New Zealand and that will comfortably survive the recovery period. Air masses, by the way, from the Northern and Southern Hemispheres do not mix.
              1. 0
                24 October 2021 16: 05
                Are you sure about New. Zeeland won't arrive? China is nearby, if the battle goes to total destruction, then they will not regret a couple of missiles, especially since they have no air defense.
                1. -1
                  24 October 2021 18: 46
                  Every hunter wants to know
                  Where the Pheasant sits.
                  After all, it may not be New Zealand, but also Australia (a spare continent for the Anglo-Saxons), and South America ... or even Antarctica with its "New Swabia".
                  When your nuclear arsenal runs out of good ...
                  For the sake of maintaining their own hegemony.
          2. -6
            22 October 2021 18: 47
            The disarming strike is real. It was real in the 70s and early 80s - now, with an integrated and unified air defense system - missile defense and new satellites and an early warning radar, it is impossible from a word at all.
            1. +1
              24 October 2021 09: 12
              Quote: Vadim237
              It was real in the 70s and early 80s - now, with an integrated and unified air defense system - missile defense and new satellites and an early warning radar, it is impossible from a word at all.

              Do you really think that the USSR in the 70s - 80s had a worse air defense system? Or is the early warning system less developed?
              I'm afraid to upset you, but it will never compare with the previous air defense system of the Russian Federation. Not in terms of the density and depth of the continuous radar field, nor in terms of saturation with all active air defense assets (air defense missile systems and aircrafts).
              The consolation is that the entire perimeter of the borders is currently closed by means of an early warning system. But when firing along a flat trajectory, enemy missiles will be detected much later than with a classic ballistic trajectory.
              1. -4
                24 October 2021 14: 44
                Do you really think that the USSR in the 70s - 80s had a worse air defense system? Or is the early warning system less developed? - If that early warning system in these years was just being formed finally, it was formed in the mid-80s about air defense and there is nothing to say. C 300 began to be introduced in the late 70s. Since 300, the USSR did not have any unified air defense system. and the computing level with the present and there is nothing to compare.
                I'm afraid to upset you, but it will never compare with the previous air defense system of the Russian Federation. Let's compare the C 125 C 200 C 300 of the first series and the current C 300PMU2 and C 300V and the current C 300V4 and C 400 as well as the C 500 which had no analogues at all in the 80s and with the Casta Gamma Sky M and Podlyot radars - the Container radar systems - analogs to which the USSR did not have the same and a lot of other things the same was not progress in place is not worth it in everything.
                But when firing along a flat trajectory, enemy missiles will be detected much later than with a classic ballistic trajectory. For this there will not be for this there the above-described radars and Tridents on a flat trajectory, no one has yet started up - the lower it flies, the easier it will be to shoot it down.
                1. +1
                  24 October 2021 17: 47
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  If that early warning system in these years was just being formed finally, it was formed in the mid-80s

                  I agree - the perimeter is completely closed by the early warning system. But in the USSR, from the mid-80s, it was also closed.
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  there is nothing to say about air defense

                  Quote: Vadim237
                  no unified air defense system for the USSR

                  Sorry, but I served in it. An officer in the combat control of an air defense unit, as part of the RIC.
                  And it was called that - the Air Defense System of the Country.
                  And there was also military air defense, which did not intersect with ours at all and was engaged in covering the troops.
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  C 300 began to be introduced in the late 70s C 300B from 1983

                  It's true . But how many were the S-200, S-75, S-125. It was a layered air defense with a continuous low-altitude radar field in the border zone, with such a density of anti-aircraft missile battalions that it is difficult to imagine today. I'm not even talking about fighter aircraft, which had its own air defense. And there were probably no fewer fighters in the air defense than in all the air forces. We had our own regiment on the MiG-25 (preparing to re-equip on the MiG-31) and the Mi-24 squadron to intercept low-altitude light-engine intruders (after Rust, it was decided to add a squadron to each border formation). Our helicopter pilots were relocated to us immediately from Afgan.
                  Two brigades and a ZRV regiment (dozens of divisions) and a radio engineering brigade with 17 radio engineering units in its composition.
                  I served in Azerbaijan.

                  Yes, the technology is now much more serious - progress does not stand still. But the country's air defense is no longer and will not be - there is the country's object air defense.
                  With a leaky radar field, which they are trying to somehow compensate with the help of ZGRLS.
                  With ZRV regiments in two (less often in three) divisional composition.
                  And fighter regiments of two squadrons.
                  But the combat control systems really made a step forward, which is not surprising.
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  there was no single air defense system in the USSR; it appeared only in 2015 in Russia, and in terms of the technological and computational level with the current and with

                  Are you talking about a unified combat control system? So my friend was still developing its prototype on an initiative basis in the mid-00s, as an interspecific system of combat control and interaction on an army / front / district scale.
                  Only this is not the system I was talking about.
                  Or was there no CCU? smile
                  And the rates of groups of troops with duplication thereof? smile
                  And the RIC with them?
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  Let's compare the C 125 C 200 C 300 of the first series and the current C 300PMU2 and C 300V

                  Let's compare their number then and today.
                  The direction, which is now covered by two or four divisions, was previously covered by 20 to 30 divisions. And there were 4 - 5 times more fighters in the air defense than today in all the aerospace forces.
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  Casta Gamma Sky M and Podlyot - container radar systems - which the USSR had no analogues

                  Oh really ?
                  "Kasta" 19Ж6 were and were deployed in very large numbers in border formations.
                  "Sky" 55Zh6 - also entered service in the mid-80s and were in the army, went to replace the P-14 and "Oborone" 5N84A.
                  "Container" is the son of the famous "Duga" three-jump. Container only has two hops.
                  "Approach" was also being developed then.
                  All the novelties of the last two decades are almost exclusively from the Soviet backlog. Or even reincarnation ... sometimes even in a truncated form.
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  and no one has ever let Tridents along a flat trajectory -

                  You are mistaken, in recent years this type of shooting by the Trident-2 has been practiced.
                  Regularly.
                  And even the passengers of airliners filmed these tests with their mobile phones, thinking that UFOs were being observed.
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  the lower it flies, the easier it will be to shoot it down.

                  At an altitude of 100+ km ?? belay
                  Excuse me, WHAT?
                  Well, except for the S-500, which are not in the troops yet?
                  The S-400 won't get it.
                  And even more so the S-300PMU and S-300V4.
                  Downward trajectory only. And on the fly - nothing.
                  Well, they don't have such a rocket. Not in terms of range - in terms of altitude.
                  But when certain measures are carried out over time, with the replacement of the radar and the addition of the S-400 BC with new missiles (from the same S-500), I think it will be quite possible.
                  1. +3
                    24 October 2021 21: 59
                    You are mistaken, in recent years this type of shooting by the Trident-2 has been practiced.
                    Regularly.
                    And even the passengers of airliners filmed these tests with their mobile phones, thinking that UFOs were being observed.


                    Please upload links
                    1. +1
                      25 October 2021 05: 47
                      Unfortunately, I cannot do this, I did not save them, but I remember that the first message was several years ago, after the passengers of several airliners posted on the network a strange phenomenon that was observed during a flight at night along the western coast of the American continents. They took it for a UFO, filmed it from different phones, walked around the cabin, making noise. After such videos were massively posted on the network, the Pentagon admitted that these were tests of "Trident-2" along a flat trajectory, and that such tests have been going on in recent years, but are not being filed. Later there were more reports of similar tests.
                      I think there is nothing surprising that they undertook to master this type of trajectory, because in our country this was mastered back in the late USSR with the Sineva and Liner missiles, such tests were carried out in the 90s and 00s. Yes, and in the past decade.
                      But for the first time, the United States admitted that it was launching Trident-2 along such a trajectory only after the very same filming from the windows of the aircraft saloons. In those shots, the rocket really flies almost horizontally, in others it is shooting in pursuit or on a collision course ... although you must understand to the civilian what kind of jellyfish blossomed in the night sky.
                      And thanks for the article Alexander, very sobering. hi
                    2. 0
                      25 October 2021 06: 20
                      If to the question of the limitations of the S-400 in terms of altitude, then they are indicated in its characteristics:
                      - aerodynamic (including hypersonic) N max. = 35 km (for 9M96M missiles, 30 km (for 40N6E missiles), 27 km (for 48N6DM missiles),
                      - by ballistic N max. = 60 km. (With a range of about 60 km too.)
                      The maximum speed of ballistic targets is up to 4,8 km / s.
                      So it is obvious that with the available missiles and the standard S-400 radar, it is not capable of shooting down Trident-2 ICBMs on a flat trajectory.
                      But when completing a new radar, making changes to combat algorithms or replacing the hardware trailer with an appropriate one and adding missiles from the S-500 to the BC ... The trousers are transformed ... In general, if desired, the possibilities can be expanded.
                      As for the capabilities of the S-300V4, their capabilities for ballistic missiles are even more modest:
                      - range max. = 45 km.
                      - the height of the ballistic target swing. = 27 km. request

                      So all hopes are only for the S-500 and their widespread introduction into the country's missile defense system.
                  2. 0
                    25 October 2021 19: 15
                    The direction, which is now covered by two to four divisions, was previously covered by 20 to 30 divisions. And there were 4 - 5 times more fighters in the air defense than today in all the aerospace forces. Was it that 20-30 divisions were covering it? Now in Russia there are only 300ok more than 125 divisions and another 70 С300В4 plus 70 more С400 divisions. And which aircraft were in the bulk obviously not Sushki 30th and 35th - the aircraft were smaller in terms of technical characteristics then.
                    All the novelties of the last two decades are almost exclusively from the Soviet backlog. Or even reincarnation ... sometimes even in a truncated form. Now those that were both heaven and earth are at the technological level.
                    You are mistaken, in recent years this type of shooting by the Trident-2 has been practiced. I did not find a single confirmation.
                    1. +1
                      26 October 2021 01: 58
                      Quote: Vadim237
                      ... Was that covering up with 20-30 divisions?

                      This refers to the conditional section of the border zone.
                      In Azerbaijan alone (where I served), about 40 divisions + 17 radio engineering units + a regiment of interceptors on the MiG-25 were deployed (they were preparing for rearmament on the MiG-31). Now scale it to the whole Union.
                      On one island of Saarema (Gulf of Finland), an anti-aircraft missile brigade and a radio technical battalion (four divisions) were deployed.
                      Never before has any country in the world had an air defense system of such density. And the Air Defense Forces were separated into a separate branch of the military.
                      Quote: Vadim237
                      And which planes were in the bulk obviously not Sushki 30th and 35th

                      In the air defense were mainly MiG-31, Su-27, MiG-25 and MiG-23MLD. And they outnumbered by several times the entire payroll of the IA of modern VKS. This is not counting the Air Force IA.
                      A continuous low-altitude radar field was provided along all the borders of the Union. And solid at medium and high altitudes over the territory of the entire country. Excluding some of the interior regions of Siberia.
                      Quote: Vadim237
                      Now those that were both heaven and earth are at the technological level.

                      I would not be so categorical. The radar stations remained almost the same (RTV on duty), but numerically - tenfold thinned out.
                      Have the missile defense increased the range?
                      Did the S-400 have the range (and even slightly surpassed) the range of the S-200?
                      It is only important to what extent the existing air defense system is capable of performing its tasks.
                      Tasks to prevent the passage of enemy aircraft and CD to strike our territory.
                      Today it is impossible to achieve that density and that degree of control. Even purely for material reasons. There is only one way out - the bet on fighter aircraft under the direction of AWACS aircraft, and airspace control using ZGRLS for all-altitude detection and warning. Something is being done in this regard, something has been done, but this is critically insufficient for reliable control and suppression of threats. And the number of fighter aircraft (all) is critically small.
                      Aircraft AWACS ... we can assume that there are no.
                      And that's what I meant.
                      Quote: Vadim237
                      You are mistaken, in recent years this type of shooting by the Trident-2 has been practiced. I did not find a single confirmation.

                      Bad looking.
                      Why are you really surprised?
                      The fact that the Americans mastered the type of trajectory for SLBMs, which our Navy mastered back in the late Soviet Union? And secured by regular launches of Sineva and Liner missiles in the 90s, 00s and the last decade?
                      Save your cap from unjustified enthusiasm, and do not be like an ostrich for news about the enemy. It is necessary to treat the enemy seriously and with respect, to study and track all his plans and undertakings. Then it is possible to take timely measures to stop new threats, sometimes even before these threats appear in service.
                      It was like that before.
                      This is how the enemy behaves.
                      This is how the current leadership of the Russian Federation should act.
                      And here is an example of correct actions to address a potential threat - in the United States since the 90s, the ideology of the "Rapid Global Strike" has been promoted. They were going to bet on long-range hypersonic missiles. Then their plans failed, the Union did not revive, they relaxed the rolls, but ... in the Russian Federation, the S-400 air defense system was adopted, capable of intercepting hypersonic missiles in the speed range up to 4,8 km / s. , at altitudes up to 60 km. (ballistic target), up to 35 km. (aerodynamic). And today we have deployed dozens of S-400 divisions, and the United States is just about to acquire a missile defense system.
                      This is one of the positive examples.
                      But I'm talking about the shortcomings today.
          3. +1
            23 October 2021 22: 32
            "We will all die" - straight through in all your phrases. Whatever it was after the nuclear turmoil, it will be sad for everyone. And there will be no exceptions. Will there be a winner at all? Not the fact that it will be. Not the fact that there will be those who rush to recognize the winner. Everyone will not be at all up to it. "Dead Man's Notes", I hope you looked?
            1. +4
              24 October 2021 09: 19
              This "turmoil" will not affect the southern hemisphere at all, and the means of destruction on strategic delivery vehicles today are too few and their power ... rather moderate to speak of a "complete Apocalypse" for everyone.
              Quote: DenZ
              .Everyone will not be up to it at all. "Dead Man's Notes", I hope you looked?

              This was true for the 70s and late 80s. Then, indeed, one list of strategic carriers and the power of their BB led to a similar conclusion.
              Today everything is different. Everything is much ... much more modest.
              And with the first missed - a disarming blow, and even less will remain.
              And they believe that they will quite survive this.

              I think that the balance of fear would be much more useful and productive.
              But they seem to have lost their fear.
        2. 0
          22 October 2021 19: 33
          the question has just been raised that the standard of living without radical changes and nuclear mushrooms will go to canned food by itself.
      3. +23
        22 October 2021 11: 40
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        As if it were again in the army for the political information visited!

        Hostile whirlwinds blow over us ...
      4. 0
        22 October 2021 19: 44
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        Wow !!!
        As if it were again in the army for the political information visited! And if it was not conducted by our political officer, a member of the database in Afghanistan, but some young lieutenant with youthful enthusiasm in his eyes.
        The article was probably written in a "leather jacket" and with a "Mauser" on the belt.

        With a pack of Herzegovina Flor cigarettes crumbled on the table, possibly with a twisted plastic bottle lying nearby.
      5. 0
        26 October 2021 18: 51
        Do you think it is better to write in a cemetery with skin peeling from radiation?
    2. +7
      22 October 2021 06: 52
      Quote: ROSS 42
      Are you kidding me, Mr. Timokhin?
      Everyone makes fun in their own way ... laughing
    3. +3
      22 October 2021 06: 57
      Quote: ROSS 42
      It is necessary to attack NATO countries (in case of specific threats) !!!

      Absolutely right! For, if the author's scenario is realistic, NATO countries will definitely climb into Russia! In retaliation for Europe, and ALL of Europe is NATO, even "neutrals", will allow, if not to eliminate, then significantly reduce this threat.
      1. +3
        22 October 2021 12: 32
        From the point of view of the survival of the Russian Federation, this does not matter. And even harmful. Even if the United States kills half of the population here and knocks out all strategic weapons, then tact. Nuclear weapons and delivery vehicles will remain in some quantity. This will hold back Europeans, at least some.

        And if we hit them, then that's it.

        In addition to American nuclear weapons in Europe, it is better for us not to touch anything at first, and even to resolve diplomatically with them. Non-belligerent countries in their right mind cannot be attacked.
        1. +5
          22 October 2021 13: 34
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          Non-belligerent countries in their right mind cannot be attacked.

          Those. NATO on your side will stand? Let me not believe it!
          1. +2
            22 October 2021 18: 05
            At first, quite. Until they believe that tact will not arrive.
          2. 0
            22 October 2021 19: 36
            Those. NATO on your side will stand? Let me not believe it!
            According to the charter of this organization, its members are not obliged to participate in aggression. Only on the defensive.
            1. +4
              24 October 2021 09: 30
              Quote: Adrey
              According to the charter of this organization, its members are not obliged to participate in aggression. Only on the defensive.

              But what about the American bases on its territory?
              With nuclear weapons, which they are even ready to provide for the aviation of their allies from Eastern Europe?
              No, in the event of a war with the United States, you will have to jam all NATO, Japan and all available bases around the world.
              Therefore, there should be a LOT of nuclear weapons and carriers thereof.
              I am for militarization.
              And for rockets in Cuba.
              At the first attempt to place something like this in Europe.
              Or make the decision to consider this as something that has already happened, because their nuclear bombs in Europe are and have always been.
              But for this, the Kremlin must grow titanium genitals.
        2. +1
          24 October 2021 09: 24
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          And if we hit them, then that's it.

          In addition to American nuclear weapons in Europe, it is better for us not to touch anything at first, and even to resolve diplomatically with them. Non-belligerent countries in their right mind cannot be attacked.

          And in England?
          This is not Europe, is it? wink
          And the rest of the ostratus to Europe, and it will definitely take part in the strike against us.
          I think it is necessary to paint post-apocalyptic England more often, because it is one of the main centers of decision-making.
    4. +11
      22 October 2021 09: 26
      As if even the scheme of strikes presented in the article does not cover several missile divisions in Siberia. It is difficult to "liquidate" Russia with a nuclear missile strike. Dimensions, armament. And all the hell that will unfold in the USA after the retaliatory strike cannot be compared with what will happen in our country. Here and the structure of the economy is territorial, and the "breadth" of the population, and the quality of the population (higher and more stubborn American). But the author is certainly right, it is not necessary to sit on the priest.
      1. 0
        22 October 2021 12: 34
        In Siberia, Atlantic SSBNs will work, what's the question?
        1. +6
          22 October 2021 12: 40
          No questions. Will work, those that get to the launch areas. Although they don't really need to get there, the range of the trident is enough for firing from the Chesapeake Bay. But ... They will fly for a long time. And the answer is enough for a maneuver, and possibly an interception. I am afraid that the Americans will not learn how to shoot from the Arctic in the next 20 years, and there we may have time to intercept it (the Arctic) with bases. So the SSBN is of course, but not completely. And accordingly, as long as there are at least a couple of sane overseas to whom they listen, so it will be.
          1. -2
            22 October 2021 13: 11
            Will work, those that get to the launch areas. Although they don't really need to get there, the trident range is enough for firing from the Chesapeake Bay. But ... They will fly for a long time. And the answer is enough for a maneuver, and possibly an interception.


            There, the early warning radar station is too deep in our territory, the entire OUT is out of observation even from the Alaska Gulf, before, a generally blind corridor was between the observation sectors of the stations.

            There, in the end, the response time will be almost the same.

            And most importantly, the 33rd Army will not fire without an order or triggering of the "Perimeter", and with a successful strike on the European part of the Russian Federation, there will be no order, and they will be late along the Perimeter.
            1. +1
              22 October 2021 13: 19
              Sorry, I didn't quite understand the idea. Is the "successful" blow the decapitation of the country from the leadership? But it (the leadership) is very echelonized for just such a "just in case" and there is always someone to give the order, for that a lot of protocols have been written according to the actions. As far as I understand, the "perimeter" will "work" without an order. You and I do not even suspect the real deployment of the launcher, especially the GPC (ground launch complexes), so it is hard to assume the effectiveness of the strike. I repeat that the strikes will take place over the air defense areas, which will thin out the enemy's warheads quite significantly. So the answer is "in time." But you still need to work on it.
              1. -1
                22 October 2021 16: 18
                A successful in the sense of the list of persons who have the right to make a decision and give the order to launch a missile strike, communication centers for transmitting such an order, etc.

                As far as I understand, the "perimeter" will "work" without an order.


                Everything there is very difficult with this "Perimeter", it is not an automatic, but a man-machine system, the problem with it is that it may work too late.

                ... I repeat that the strikes will take place over the air defense areas, which will thin out the enemy's warheads quite significantly.


                Are you healthy, citizen? By what means are you going to "thin out the warheads"?
                1. +2
                  23 October 2021 04: 45
                  C 235, C400, C500. Thank you for your health care.
                  1. +2
                    24 October 2021 09: 40
                    Quote: sleeve
                    With 235

                    A-235. This is Moscow and partly the central industrial region. But with a flat trajectory, their effectiveness may be slightly lower.
                    Quote: sleeve
                    , С400, С500

                    The S-500s have not yet been deployed and so far it is planned to build only 10 divisions (although it may be regiments who will disassemble them) by 2030. And they must not only be deployed, but also how to master the l / s.
                    The S-400, after being re-equipped with a multifunctional radar from the S-500 (and this is already being carried out), will be more effective in terms of RSD, but unlikely for ICBMs. This requires appropriate missiles and combat algorithms.
                    All this can work by 2030, but will they give us so much time?
                    The most radical method would be to create a mirror threat, but in the absence of the Navy ... it is possible to deploy MRBMs in Cuba and Venezuela only together with China, which is ... unlikely.
                    1. +2
                      24 October 2021 12: 52
                      I apologize, due to inertia, "Nudol" made a reservation with the letters. You and I absolutely cannot imagine how the Russian missile defense system behaves in the absence of a treaty of the same name for many years. Where, how and by what forces it is already a mystery sealed with seven seals. But for some reason it seems to me that the Moscow region is no longer the only one.
                      1. +1
                        24 October 2021 15: 15
                        Considering that after the discovery of the BB, target designation for the missile defense system can be given by any Voronezh-DM missile defense system, then an object missile defense system can also be built with the help of the S-500. That's just to build and deploy them in sufficient quantities.
                        As for the already deployed S-400s, all divisions are planned to be re-equipped with multi-functional AFAR radars from the S-500, and in this case, their capabilities to intercept medium-range missiles are greatly expanded. But ICBMs will still be beyond their power. Although ... an extra hardware trailer and a couple of launchers with the right rockets could, in principle, help the case.
                    2. 0
                      24 October 2021 13: 06
                      So far, we are defending and attacking a little better than someone who is not us. The question is really a material base, but on the scale we are discussing, this is quite a matter of itself. In addition, you can see for yourself that the most dynamic part of the defense potential in terms of the availability of equipment, in terms of saturation with new products, in terms of the density of combat training is just the air defense / missile defense together with the "allies".
                      1. +2
                        24 October 2021 15: 34
                        Quote: sleeve
                        So far, we are defending and attacking a little better than someone who is not us.

                        I could argue about how much better we are "defending and attacking", but perhaps the only success can be recognized as the reconstruction of a complete contour from the early warning systems and the adoption of the S-400 (with the supply of several regimental sets to the troops), S-350 (which in troops, in fact, not yet, but are already expected) and the S-500 (which finally managed to equip a very good AFAR radar). Will we have time to deploy the proper number of S-500 and S-350 ... question. But the fact that the current on-site air defense is not at all what was once the country's air defense system ... both in terms of the density of the radar field and the saturation of troops with weapons of destruction (air defense systems, air defense systems), is an indisputable fact.
                        And if you remember our history, that we were always attacked before we completed our rearmament and acquired genuine combat stability, then today I would not be so favorably disposed. And I would not promise 10 - 15 years ahead.
                        Our management made a mountain of mistakes and miscalculations, missing the golden time for making the right decisions and taking action. Today, much is already too late and you will have to make do with what you have.
                      2. +1
                        24 October 2021 15: 53
                        I agree, you are right in terms of desaturation. A matter of resources, effort and time. The transition from a continuous air defense line to zoning is due to these factors and is now rational. Thousands of air defense systems are still expensive. And yes, the danger of a crazy blow to us is high especially now. The whole question is in the enemy's awareness of the counter potential and the calculation of the consequences. But I think the chances we have at least to neutralize further aggression are high. The question is the price for us.
                      3. 0
                        24 October 2021 16: 17
                        Quote: sleeve
                        Thousands of air defense systems are still expensive.

                        This is simply impossible due to material, financial, time and personnel problems. Today, it is more rational to build the country's air defense on interceptor fighters, because the main striking force of the enemy will be CD with a low-altitude profile. ZGRLS will be able to open their plaque and give general target designation for the IA. But for the effective operation of the IA, it is necessary to organize their combat control with the help of AWACS aircraft, which ... do not exist. request
                        Quote: sleeve
                        But I think the chances we have at least to neutralize further aggression are high.

                        In the event of a sudden massive attack by an SLBM on a flat trajectory, our chances will be greatly reduced. I would bet on a preemptive strike in case of suspicion of preparing aggression.
                        And I would have installed bottom sea bombs at 50 - 100 Mt. along the coast of the United States.
                        And in touch-sensitive mode.
                        Otherwise, "Why do we need this world ..."?
                    3. 0
                      24 October 2021 13: 25
                      By the way, everything is fine with the mirror threat. In any case, we will multiply NORAD with the available means and the Canadian gates will open together with Alaska (this is already "Daggers"). What the "modified" Iskander is capable of, they will not tell us in detail. Until there is material confirmation, we can only speculate about it. And this thing is not particularly grateful.
                      1. +1
                        24 October 2021 15: 47
                        Quote: sleeve
                        What the "modified" Iskander is capable of, they will not tell us in detail. Until there is material confirmation, we can only speculate about it. And this thing is not particularly grateful.

                        I would not be too deluded about this product. In fact, this is an ordinary aeroballistic missile, created on the basis of Iskander to compensate for the absence of SD missiles prohibited by the previous INF Treaty. It has its pros and cons, but the good news is that we have it. But with the use of it in emergency mode, problems can arise ... if they attacked us. And besides, suddenly. There may simply not be enough time to prepare the rocket itself and its carrier for launch - the airfield will be smashed ... or glazed. It's not a button to press, the plane must be prepared, the pilot must be in place and already in a high-altitude suit / spacesuit ... enter a flight task into the rocket ...
                        After all, the pilots of all MiG-31Ks cannot be in constant combat readiness and wait for the command to take off? At best, a couple on duty or a link.
                        But for a preemptive strike, "Dagger" is very suitable.
                        And it seems to me that the doctrine should be changed in the direction of the main rate on the Preemptive strike. We have the right to do so and will never be able to linearly compete in the arms race with our opponents.
                        So the rules of the game need to be changed.
                        So that potential aggressors are afraid to even think about the bad, so as not to provoke us to a pre-emptive strike.
                    4. +2
                      24 October 2021 14: 59
                      10 divisions of 500ok will be purchased to cover Moscow and the central region as an addition to A 235 until 2030 they will purchase 20 regiments for flying ICBMs along a flat trajectory, and at the distances that the author issued makes the same MRBM from ICBMs with warheads which must cope with 300PMU S 300В4 and С 400 and all the algorithms of work as well as binding to other radars and radars of the early warning system they have for a long time, as well as long-range missiles are purchased, and there is a single and comprehensive air defense missile defense system throughout the country, all this works online 24 by 7, so there is no there will be no sudden disarming blow because it is physically impossible.
                      All this can work by 2030, but will they give us so much time? And who will not give or what will not give - at the expense of the United States, they have most of the nuclear potential for a long time outdated rubbish and it is not clear with the charges themselves that no one has updated them only recently, and even with the new program for a trillion dollars until 2036, there is no significant update of their arsenal wait is not worth it.
                      1. +2
                        24 October 2021 16: 46
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        10 divisions of 500ok will be purchased to cover Moscow and the central region as an addition to the A 235

                        If all the first 10 regiments go to cover Moscow, then we may not have time to put these systems to cover our positional areas.
                        Moscow is already well covered, so it is better to deploy directly to cover the strategic nuclear forces or combine these processes - a regiment there, a regiment here.
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        2030 regiments will be purchased by 20

                        But this is already pleasing, because there was a suspicion that they could limit themselves to only 10 sets.
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        for the flight of ICBMs along a flat trajectory, and at the distances that the author issued makes from ICBMs the same IRBMs with warheads which must cope with 300PMU S 300V4 and S 400 and all the algorithms of operation, as well as binding to other radars and radars of the early warning system, they have for a long time as well as long-range missiles

                        It depends on what to shoot down and on what part of the trajectory. If the flat trajectory runs at an altitude of 100 km + -, then neither the S-300 (both the PMU and the B4) will be able to shoot down on the active section. Yes, and the S-400 missiles will not hold out with standard missiles. There will be needed missiles with gas-dynamic rudders of transverse thrust. But if the S-400 complexes, having received new radar, will also receive missiles from the S-500, then yes - quite.
                        But there is one more thing - speed. The speed of SLBMs on a flat trajectory will be much higher than that of any MRBM, which means that the reaction time is reduced. The S-500 (and now the S-400) radar has a much greater detection range and already gives time for capture and launch. But the S-300 is unlikely to come in handy here.
                        However, the S-400 has already been deployed a lot ...
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        therefore, there will be no sudden disarming blow because it is physically impossible.

                        Well, let's say the "Container" is potentially capable of detecting such launches almost from the moment of launch ... but the flight time (!!!). There is really very little of it.
                        Therefore, a mirror threat is vital to contain the aggressor.
                        And we have to think about it.
                        And thoughts to implement as soon as possible.
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        At the expense of the United States, they have most of their nuclear potential long outdated trash and it is not clear with the charges themselves that no one has updated them only recently they realized, and with the new program for a trillion dollars until 2036, no significant update of their arsenal should be expected.

                        And you don’t think that this is the main threat today. Today, their nuclear warheads are on the verge of their shelf life.
                        And there is no substitute for them.
                        And tomorrow there will be nothing left at all.
                        How do you think the enemy will behave?
                        Cover with a sheet and die peacefully?
                        Or will he take the last chance while he still can?
                        It seems to me that everything is heading towards the last option and we have very little time.
                        They just lose EVERYTHING.
                        Together with nuclear status.
                        And they will try with all their might to prevent this from happening.
                        Just get into their shoes and imagine - what other options do they have?

                        And I will tell you - zeroing and restarting.

                        And this cannot be allowed.
                        hi
                      2. 0
                        25 October 2021 19: 19
                        They will definitely not die, as any blow to us - and they are a cap in any case - they are not suicides.
                      3. 0
                        26 October 2021 02: 40
                        And they are counting on something else.
                        First, the humiliating defeat of the Russian Federation in a small conflict with a third-rate enemy (Japan, Turkey, etc.), the destabilization of the Russian Federation by internal turmoil on the wave of people's dissatisfaction with the government - obvious discontent, because all the ceremonial tinsel will fly from ... the naked king ... turmoil, a revolutionary situation, saddling of a protest (any - whether right or left), a coup, disorganization of the RF Armed Forces and ... all the conditions for the passage of a "Rapid Global Strike" across Russia.
                        Something similar happened in the Russo-Japanese War - they blew a third-rate (then) country with shame, got a revolution, turmoil, rampant terror, contempt for a government incapable of anything ... and received as an ultimatum from the enemy (then England) - the Duma , The Constitution and ... a few years of respite. RI did not endure the second round in February 1917.
                        Everything will be faster now.
                        It's just that the enemy is looking for our weak point, where defeat can be inflicted quickly and humiliatingly.
                        And it seems they found him.
                        Far East and disputed islands.
                        Or they could have gotten into the war for Karabakh on the side of the Armenians a little earlier. the trap was perfect.
                        WEAK BEATS!
                        WEAKNESS IS NOT FORGIVEN!
                        First of all, our own citizens.
                        And after such a defeat, the main enemy for "citizens who have recovered their sight" will become precisely SHE - power. Which from that very moment will lose all legitimacy and will cause, at best, only contempt. And a complete ignore.
                        Including in the Army itself. For the Army is part of the State.

                        Ideal conditions for BSU.

                        Today, the authorities, albeit with difficulty, bypass the traps set for them. But the opportunities for maneuver remain less and less, and there is more and more discontent within society.
                        The people agreed to "cannons instead of butter", in the expectation that the cannons should be the best (and propaganda is constantly rattling about this) ... But the sewing in the sack cannot be hidden for a long time.
                        So maybe it’s enough to eat in three throats, and do the same defenses?

                        ... Or have they already agreed on something?

                        I would not like to relive the death of my state again.
                      4. +1
                        26 October 2021 02: 54
                        That is, a military conflict with the Japanese over the islands can begin at any time convenient for them?
                        By the way, the food shortage in the Far East (probably artificial) only increases the outflow of the population from there. This is a disaster for the region.
                        And I think the Japanese will not be limited to 4 islands.
                        Their aviation and fleet will simply block both the Kuriles and Sakhalin. Su-35, Su-27SM and Su-34 from the bases in Uglovoy, Dzemgakh and Khurba will simply fly at the limit of their physical range without a radar field. Because of this, the combat load will be greatly limited.
                        But Japanese aviation will be able to strike both Primorye and Sakhalin. Although there are no serious forces there for a long time - only the rusty nuclear "Ural" and its colleagues "Orlans" are in the bay for cutting.
                        "Ural" is a completely new ship. Was several times at sea. and such a miracle was ruined ...
                      5. 0
                        26 October 2021 03: 31
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        That is, a military conflict with the Japanese over the islands can begin at any time convenient for them?

                        Now they are probing the soil and looking at the reaction.
                        But the Kremlin cannot be considered clinical and ... invalids, they are trying to maneuver, they are conducting exercises with China, they suggested that China open a joint free economic zone on the disputed islands ... But there is no particular progress in defense capability, and it is not even clear that they are going to do in this regard.
                        It would be logical not to waste time ordering a series of 054A frigates in China (with modernization for our weapons systems) in order to somehow plug the gaping holes in the defenses. Since they did not manage to order these ships in 2015 - 2015.
                        And deploy additional VKS forces.
                        I think, willy-nilly, the Far East will still have to cover up, the Kremlin today has big plans for this region in terms of economy and trade - there are minibuses for exporting hydrocarbons from the Arctic, coal ports are being built, a railway from Yakutia to the Okhotsk coast is going to be built. All this must be protected.
                        Another thing is that they are not ... not military. They are hucksters seeking to "cut costs" (as Chubais said). And they don't think strategically at all.

                        Here is a combination of traitors and traders - traitors sabotage all defense programs, and traders save on it.
                        But at the same time they are very good.
                      6. 0
                        26 October 2021 13: 07
                        It should be borne in mind that the Japanese are now in a much more advantageous position. Using their population and mobilization potential, they can easily build up their forces to at least a million, at least more if required.
                        We do not stand next to this either. And we are absolutely losing in this. Not only because of the flight of the population from the region and its impoverishment there.
                        And due to the fact that the Kuril Islands are very close to Japan and far from the mainland. Therefore, by capturing them, the Japanese will easily and quickly establish supply for their occupation group there.
                        If someone is mobilized in Primorye, in the Marines or somewhere else, then due to the dominance of the Japanese fleet and aviation in the conflict zone, it will be impossible to transport fresh forces to the theater of military operations.
                        Therefore, with such a situation as today, we are guaranteed a deliberate loss. We can also lose Sakhalin.
                        But whether the Japanese will climb to the mainland in Primorye, I don’t know for that. Well, here they are already being given a hat with fresh forces from European Russia.
                      7. 0
                        26 October 2021 15: 54
                        Japan did not dare to attack our Primorye and, in general, the Soviet Union, even in 1941, when our armies suffered crushing defeats.
                        Islands are another matter.
                        And they do not need them so much to take such risks. But this is a long-standing, long-term vision of the United States.
                        I think that a new version of the Military Doctrine, which allows the use of nuclear weapons, in the event of an attack on the Russian Federation with the threat of losing territories, would be useful.
                        And this interpretation of our defense strategy will reduce the samurai ardor.
                        And to envisage, in the event of Japanese aggression on the islands, pinpoint nuclear strikes by "Daggers" on their naval and air force bases.
                        And to bring such plans to the war criminals of WWII.
                        Because the navy and the air force are good, but when they lose their bases, things are not so rosy.
                        And there is an urgent need to lower the bar on the use of nuclear weapons.
                        The US has already done this.
                        We also need it.
                        And provide for the possibility of installing nuclear warheads literally on every anti-ship missile and air-to-surface missile.
                        It is urgent to give up pink fairy tales about the possibility of waging a conventional war.
                        Only the discipline of fear can keep the aggressor from madness.
                      8. -1
                        26 October 2021 18: 23
                        And if we suppose after the capture of the island (no matter when) the Japanese landed troops in Primorye, having previously processed all military facilities with aviation, then they will still not be able to capture anything?
                        On our side, mobilization, the militia. Japanese forces will suffer casualties. Yes, and the samurai will not be able to arrange the supply of their group at such a distance - far.
                        And in any case, all the forces that can be collected and that survived, I think they will be able to knock them out of the mainland. Militiamen, reservists, reinforcements will pull up from the European part.
                        But with the islands the opposite is true. Therefore, you can sweep aside the option that the Japanese poke their attention to the mainland even after the success of the capture of the Kuriles and suppose Sakhalin?
                      9. +1
                        26 October 2021 19: 22
                        The Japanese will never go to Primorye, they are not suicides.
                        But the islands may well be encroached upon.
                        Therefore, new amendments to the doctrine, on the use of nuclear weapons in the event of an attack on the Russian Federation and the threat of loss of territories, are relevant today.
                        The highest measure of stupidity, having nuclear weapons, to destroy yourself with war using conventional methods and incur losses.
                        Attacked a nuclear power?
                        To begin with, a blow to the military infrastructure and the advancing group.
                        The enemy did not surrender?
                        On the decision-making centers of the aggressor state - i.e. by administrative centers.
                        Few ?
                        Strikes continue to target port infrastructure, power plants, airports (as alternate airfields for military aircraft), and military enterprises.
                        And such a plan of action must be communicated to a potential aggressor.

                        And you need to understand correctly that Japan can decide on this only if other fronts arise on the border of the Russian Federation, for example, in the Donbass.
                      10. -1
                        26 October 2021 23: 51
                        According to the updated Constitution of the Russian Federation, alienation of any territories is not allowed. So be it.
                        The President is the guarantor of the Constitution and territorial integrity.
                        And if, in the event of a conflict, the country loses even one island from its territory, then it turns out that the president himself will be outside the law and the constitution that allowed this?
                        His own power structures were rejected the next day. They will not forgive this.
                      11. +2
                        27 October 2021 04: 03
                        This will not be forgiven by the People - in their entirety. The authorities will simply lose legitimacy in their eyes, because propaganda tells us that we are the best and all of us are afraid, that we have everything the most hyper and super. If the field of this flurry of rabid propaganda disgraces the authorities so much ... there will be just contempt for them.
                        The authorities should not and can never allow such a thing.
                        RI collapsed precisely as a result of a miserably lost RYA. It was then that at all levels of society the realization came that "the regime is rotten" and it urgently needs to be changed.
                        And then all layers of society were engaged in the destruction of this regime - from the aristocracy and the bourgeoisie, to the intelligentsia and revolutionaries "from the people."

                        Fortunately, there is good news on the Far East and Japan - China turned to the Russian Federation with a proposal to build us a series of 055 destroyers in exchange for the transfer of technology to the Tu-160. In order to solve in one fell swoop the main problems of the defense capability of both states - they have long-range aviation, we have - with the inability to quickly build large ships.
                        The Chinese build quickly.
                        So the saturation of the Pacific Fleet with ships can happen much faster than we could have calculated before.
                        If the Chinese are ready to build 055 for us, then frigates in the PLO version based on 054A, all the more so they will build. And it will be built much faster than 055.
                        Well, the last joint exercises were clearly demonstrative.
                        So the "ray of light" is already breaking through the "dark kingdom" of carelessness and bungling.
                      12. 0
                        27 October 2021 23: 49
                        Nobody knows exactly how many nuclear weapons Japan has. Possibly dozens. 10 years ago, during Fukushima, there was information that the aerosols from the station contained traces of the uranium-233 isotope. And this isotope does not exist in nature; it is not formed at nuclear power plants and is not used in thermal neutron reactors.
                        But there it can be obtained if, instead of part of the fuel assemblies, the targets are driven from natural thorium and removed after a few months. Then divide in the hot cell.
                        And uranium-233 itself, like plutonium, is a good material for compact charges. Plutonium Japan has tens of tons.
                        Well, the logic is simple. If Kim has by his side, then why does His Majesty not have an emperor?
                      13. 0
                        28 October 2021 00: 46
                        I think the United States did not leave this without control.
                        And about the explosion that initiated the earthquake and tsunami (bottom explosion), there are several versions, one of them is blackmail and extortion from Japan of a certain state. But it is also possible conspiracy theories.
                        Discovered Uranium-233 could be the result, or remain a trace of that explosion.
                        The warhead power was estimated at 500 kT.
                      14. +1
                        28 October 2021 01: 56
                        The isotope Uranium-233 is not formed even in nuclear explosions. He has nowhere to come from. Unless, of course, the charge itself consisted of this very isotope. Then, when the shell expands and evaporates, the isotope can enter the medium.
                        But the fact that the Japanese dabbled with this is in principle known. And at that ill-fated station they were producing Uranium-233. Then, when the reactors began to melt, something escaped into the atmosphere and an uncharacteristic substance for nuclear power plants was discovered.
                        And of course, this isotope can be obtained handicraftly in small quantities if you try.
                      15. 0
                        27 October 2021 20: 42
                        You have written a lot about the Far East.
                        Where do you live? Interesting to know. wink
                      16. +1
                        27 October 2021 20: 50
                        Quote: Alex777
                        Where do you live?

                        Donetsk for the last 7 years.
                        Quote: Alex777
                        You have written a lot about the Far East.

                        My friends have served in Primorye since the mid-90s, we communicate regularly. A friend took part in the military council of the Pacific Fleet for some time (on combat interaction), discussed all this quite often ... Bare heels of the "empire". request
                      17. +1
                        27 October 2021 20: 55
                        I know everything about you. drinks
                        I am a colleague Osipov9391 asked.
                        I have a wife from Sakhalin. Her father was in charge there.
                        There is an opinion that we can not worry about Japan.
                        Without the States, they will not climb. The population will not understand. Japanese. wink
                      18. 0
                        27 October 2021 21: 39
                        Yesterday's message is interesting, about the "friendly exchange", but first of all it is necessary to order frigates - they will build much faster and they may even be in operation before the arrival of the first "Gorshkovy" \ "Gorshkovy +", from 055 there will be much more fuss.
                        But one order will not interfere with another - the shipyards and the slipways are different, if only they made a decision.
                      19. 0
                        27 October 2021 22: 04
                        Frigates - development of the early 2000s.
                        The Chinese themselves consider them not very successful because of their low speed and seaworthiness (not enough VI).
                        The alterations you spoke about kill the advantages of the project (cheap), but at the same time it remains an undership.
                        PLO is weak. A helicopter with an incomprehensible supply of fuel (2-3 sorties?), 2x3 torpedoes and a bomb launcher ...
                        Air defense is also not ice. There Calm and 4 Nuts.
                        Channeling for targets - 6, for missiles - 12.
                        Our sailors became interested in 054A in St. Petersburg, at the 2018 parade, but quickly cooled off.
                        If about 055 turns out to be true - there are no questions.
                        Such, IMHO, at least 9-10, and preferably 14 is necessary. For 3 fleets.
                      20. 0
                        27 October 2021 23: 06
                        Quote: Alex777
                        The alterations you spoke about kill the advantages of the project (cheap), but at the same time it remains an undership.

                        It has an export price for a complete set of about $ 186 million. Remove armament, air defense, torpedo tubes and other archaics - only the hull, power plant, general ship systems and means of civil navigation - in this form it is no more than $ 100 million. will cost.
                        And our saturation:
                        SJSC from 20380.
                        SAM - "Calm" - it is not expensive, reliable, serial.
                        Radar can be taken from 11356 - for a frigate PLO will be sufficient.
                        TA - "Package-NK".
                        UKSK - 2 pcs. before the wheelhouse.
                        Electronic warfare, communication and encryption means - standard, from 20380 or 22350.
                        For everything - about everything there will still be about 150 million dollars.
                        Maybe even $ 200 million.
                        But in total it will still be at the level of the price of CORVETA 20380 or 20385, no more.
                        But faster, more seaworthy, more autonomous.
                        We need them not as multifunctional ones, but as PLO ships for the Sea of ​​Okhotsk and the Sea of ​​Japan.
                        Quote: Alex777
                        The Chinese themselves consider them not very successful due to the low speed.

                        29 knots ... With a bulb from GAK 20380 it will drop to 28 - 27 knots.
                        But this is even more than that of domestic corvettes (27 knots at 20380 and 25 knots at 20385).
                        But instead of corvettes VI 1800 - 2200 tons and an atomic capacity of 15 days, for the same money there will be VI 4000 - 4500 tons, an autonomy of 30 days and better seaworthiness.
                        And I am simply silent about the difference in combat capabilities.
                        But the main advantage is cheap and fast.
                        And in the right amount.
                        Well, our corvettes will not be able to carry out service in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk - neither seaworthiness nor autonomy is enough for this.
                        And these will be just right.
                        Quote: Alex777
                        2x3 torpedoes and a bomb ...

                        No - two TA on-board, each from 4 to 12 torpedoes and anti-torpedoes "Packet-NK".
                        Quote: Alex777
                        Air defense is also not ice. There Calm and 4 Nuts.
                        Channeling for targets - 6, for missiles - 12.

                        We will put our version - both on the Black Sea 11356 and on future upgrades 1155.
                        But for an PLO frigate, 6 channels for 12 missiles is very good.
                        It can be generally considered a "large PLO corvette" so that there is no cognitive dissonance. Although in this form it is quite suitable for escort tasks (transports, landing forces, etc.).
                        Quote: Alex777
                        Our sailors became interested in 054A in St. Petersburg, at the 2018 parade, but quickly cooled off.

                        In its original form, it is not interesting to us. But as a platform, as a body with a power plant - it is quite. We ourselves have the rest. Moreover, it is no longer very secret and much can be mounted directly in China (with our supplies), and retrofitted already at the Vladivostok Shipyard.
                        Quote: Alex777
                        If about 055 turns out to be true - there are no questions.
                        Such, IMHO, at least 9-10, and preferably 14 is necessary. For 3 fleets.

                        I think this amount will be excessive, 6 - 8 for two fleets - the Pacific Fleet and the Northern Fleet equally. And everything else, the main horses - 22350M 20 - 24 pcs. They are more economical and quite sufficient in terms of capabilities.
                        And cheaper - the expected price is 650 million dollars. Maybe it will grow up to 700 million.
                        And 055 with our equipment and armament, with radar AFAR-canvases from the S-500 (and the other is impossible - you need a standby mode) and full minced meat will come out from 1 to 1,5 billion dollars (the second figure is more likely). In addition, it is by no means economical - it implements electric propulsion from 4 gas turbines with a capacity of 35 l / s. And with an electric transmission, the efficiency is noticeably lower than that of a gearbox.
                        In general, I would suggest for such a ship a power plant on two gas-steam turbine pairs (M-90FR + steam with a connection through a heat exchanger), than the fuel consumption would be reduced by about half. A similar power plant (though only for the cruising mode) is implemented on the project 1164.

                        And in the original Chinese appearance (in terms of armament), 055 also does not roll to us. All weapons must be of domestic origin.
                        And if we take 055 corps - without weapons and combat equipment, then its price in this form will not exceed $ 400 million.
                        But how will our Far Eastern military shipbuilding develop on the completion of these ships !!!
                        After this practice, it will be possible to build ships of any class in the Far East on its own.
                      21. 0
                        28 October 2021 01: 02
                        Quote: bayard
                        And if we take 055 corps - without weapons and combat equipment, then its price in this form will not exceed $ 400 million.

                        An unarmed hull costs 15, a maximum of 20% of the ship's value. 150-200 million price of hull 055. Yes
                        So calculate the cost of our 22350M, the project of which is not yet available (until 2023), and the cost of 055 with our equipment ... You yourself know about the speed of construction. Therefore, I have the numbers that I have named. I would be glad to see a couple of these on the Black Sea. Instead of Moscow. Everyone would be gladdened. wink

                        In addition, it is by no means economical - it implements electric propulsion from 4 gas turbines with a capacity of 35 l / s. And with an electric transmission, the efficiency is noticeably lower than that of a gearbox.

                        But there is a supply of energy for promising types of weapons. wink
                      22. 0
                        28 October 2021 11: 00
                        Quote: Alex777

                        An unarmed hull costs 15, a maximum of 20% of the ship's value. 150-200 million price of hull 055.

                        And what about the power plant? With four healthy turbines, an electric drivetrain, propulsion engines, habitat, power supply and other useful saturation?
                        Well, the means of civil navigation to go to Vladivostok on their own for retrofitting.
                        I considered all this.
                        Quote: Alex777
                        So calculate the cost of our 22350M, the project of which is not yet available (until 2023 it will not be),

                        NS. 22350M, this is just an enlarged body 22350 with a new, purely gas turbine power plant, with the same armament, but with an expanded ammunition system (SAM and anti-ship missiles, PLUR, KRBD) and two helicopters.
                        The estimated price of this is 650 million dollars. (the ruble floats all the time, and in dollars for about all years it is kept in parameters) against 500 - 550 million. at the "Gorshkov".
                        If the number of CDs in the UKSK is really expanded to 64 pieces (which is reasonable when placing them in 2 rows), then in terms of its BC it will be equal to the early "Burke", and in terms of the quality of the BC, it will be taken seriously. But at the same time, the entire basic composition of weapons will remain the same. And the radar too.
                        Quote: Alex777
                        You know about the speed of construction

                        This speed is abnormal and not natural when the started work is stopped due to the unavailability of any of the systems. At first, the air defense system and the air defense system as a whole were not ready, then the Ukrainian power plants disappeared ...
                        While in Kaliningrad, all the Black Sea frigates (for which there were power plants) were rebuilt from bookmark to delivery - in 3,5 years each. This is what an established production cooperation and technical process mean. On the 22350s under construction today, shipbuilders are filling their hand, cooperation is debugging, the main problem is the domestic power plant, the quality of which has not yet been tested in practice. But such power plants have already gone serially on ships standing on the stocks.
                        And the power plant for the 22350M is simpler - there are only turbines, and flattening the torque of two high-speed turbines on one propeller shaft is much easier than a turbine and a low-speed diesel engine. From a diesel locomotive.
                        I think the bookmarks of the first 22350M are delayed precisely because of the unavailability of the power plant (production is new, and it was also loaded with foolishness for 20386, wasting precious time in vain.
                        Quote: Alex777
                        You yourself know about the speed of construction. Therefore, I have those numbers that I have named.

                        I do not think that the Chinese will be able to supply us with such ships at too high a rate. Although the slipways where they assembled 053D are now being vacated, they are going to build 50 such ships for themselves. And for us it will not be so fast - first agree on changes to the A la Russe project, then build a hull with a chassis, power systems and general ship filling, controls and navigation ... ...
                        And there ?
                        And then there is additional equipment, testing, testing, fine-tuning, delivery ... How much do you think it will take for each ship? Especially for the first two or three?
                        And our 22350M, this is the same "Gorshkov", only larger and 2 - 3 times expanded by the BC, and the hangar for 2 helicopters. And with full debugging of cooperation (engines!), Such a ship will be built from 5 to 4 years (with a reduction in terms as the series progresses). Moreover, on all slipways and in the new slipway of the Admiralty Shipyards, as well as on all slipways of the Kaliningrad "Yantar" (bookmarks immediately after the cessation of the laying of corvettes), and then at the Amur Shipyard, after the completion of the construction of corvettes.
                        Quote: Alex777
                        I would be glad to see a couple of these on the Black Sea. Instead of Moscow. Everyone would be gladdened.

                        Why are they on the Black Sea? It is small for such masses, for him and Middle-earth the six 22350M is enough - their BC for anti-ship missiles is many times greater than the capabilities of “Moscow”.
                        And what difference does it make, how many CDs are on board - 64 or 80?
                        If the operation of the 055 is 2 times more expensive than the operation of the 22350M.
                        More powerful air defense? (S-400, RLK from S-500)
                        Yes, but as part of the KUG DM and OZ order, it is enough to have one ship with such an air defense system and several with the Polyment-Redoubt in order to feel confident in any situation.
                        Therefore, I think that series of 6 - 8 pieces. 055 will be enough. Based on the Pacific Ocean Fleet.
                        Such a number will make it possible to constantly keep one such ship in the DM or OZ, and another in readiness for action in the adjacent water area.
                        The rest will be done by the future workhorses of the Navy.
                        Quote: Alex777
                        But there is a supply of energy for promising types of weapons.

                        Yes, but the Chinese need it to power their combat lasers ... But what about us? smile
                        But the pocket does not hold the stock. And the experience of operating a power plant on electric propulsion of such power will undoubtedly come in handy.
                        If you really want big ships, then you can order not 2, but 4 UDC type. 071 - for the Black Sea Fleet too.
                        Or 6 pieces at once. , so that the SF would not be offended - after all, it is necessary to land troops in Norway from something.
                        And a couple of large floating docks in China - for the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet.
                      23. 0
                        28 October 2021 15: 33
                        Quote: bayard
                        Quote: Alex777
                        An unarmed hull costs 15, a maximum of 20% of the ship's value. 150-200 million price of hull 055.

                        And what about the power plant? With four healthy turbines, an electric drivetrain, propulsion engines, habitat, power supply and other useful saturation?
                        Well, the means of civil navigation to go to Vladivostok on their own for retrofitting.
                        I considered all this.

                        Yes. Therefore, 20%. This is maximum. In the world. The Chinese definitely have no more.

                        Quote: bayard
                        If the number of RCs in the UKSK is really expanded to 64 pieces (which is reasonable when placing them in 2 rows), then in its BC it will be equal to the early "Burke"

                        If there are 64 UKSK and there is no VPU Redut (the entire BC will be delivered to UKSK), then we will get our analogue 052D. This is a really cool frigate. Although in China it is called a destroyer.

                        Quote: bayard
                        Quote: Alex777
                        I would be glad to see a couple of these on the Black Sea. Instead of Moscow. Everyone would be gladdened.

                        Why are they on the Black Sea? It is small for such masses, for him and Middle-earth the six 22350M is enough - their BC for anti-ship missiles is many times greater than the capabilities of “Moscow”.

                        The Black Sea is not small either for Moscow, or for Berkov, or for our UDC under construction.
                        055 is approximately equal in size to 1164 pcs. - the very thing. One in the Crimea, the second in Tartus. And they change.
                        When will the six 22350M appear there? Is it even planned there? I only heard about 2 with increased BC.

                        Quote: bayard
                        And why are they on the Black Sea? ... More powerful air defense? (S-400, RLK from S-500)

                        How is a destroyer different from a frigate? More powerful air defense / missile defense.
                        The presence of such ships makes it possible to effectively control ship groups and increase the stability of the KUG as a whole.
                        So the cost of ownership is undeniably justified.

                        Quote: bayard
                        Quote: Alex777
                        But there is a supply of energy for promising types of weapons.

                        Yes, but the Chinese need it to power their combat lasers ... But what about us?

                        For the same. Who has Peresvet on the database? China?

                        Quote: bayard
                        If you really want big ships, then you can order not 2, but 4 UDC type. 071 - for the Black Sea Fleet too.

                        A flight of fancy ... But for now, out of the blue, we're only talking about 055. Maybe. So let's not be distracted by something else. wink
                      24. 0
                        28 October 2021 18: 50
                        Quote: Alex777
                        Yes. Therefore, 20%. This is maximum. In the world. The Chinese definitely have no more.

                        Well then, you can safely take it.
                        Quote: Alex777
                        If there are 64 UKSK and there is no VPU Redoubt

                        In the still known form, the 22350M has 6 UKSK for 48 KR + 3 times larger (compared to the "Gorshkov") BC to the "Polyment-Redut" (2 \ 3 BC is placed on the waist), but when this project was drawn up, it was planned other placement of UKSK, now even at 22350.1 it is in two rows. So "Super-Gorshkov" will have enough teeth for both game birds and waterfowl. If only they appeared themselves.


                        Quote: Alex777
                        The Black Sea is not small either for Moscow, or for Berkov, or for our UDC under construction.
                        055 is approximately equal in size to 1164 pcs. - the very thing. One in the Crimea, the second in Tartus. And they change.

                        Well persuaded, 8 pcs. - 3 pcs. for the Pacific Fleet and Northern Fleet and two for the Black Sea Fleet. Yes
                        Quote: Alex777
                        But for now, out of the blue, we're only talking about 055. Maybe. So let's not be distracted by something else.

                        And in vain. And we need UDC, our own will not soon be and in insufficient quantities.
                        And most importantly - PLO frigates! 8 to 12 pcs. !!
                        They now have boathouses, where this series was driven free, such a chance should not be missed - we have no one to carry out service in the Okhotsk bastion. And to provide PLO near the disputed islands.
                        And even in conjunction with the ancient "Varshavs" (in terms of the composition of weapons), such PLO ships will be able to provide.
                        And strengthen the air defense.
                        And each carry up to 8 Onyxes.
                        These frigates are a chance for FAST (namely, fast) saturation of the Pacific Fleet with warships with sufficient capabilities to control the waters. Otherwise, there will be imbalance and insufficiency again.
                        The frigates will be CHEAP, arrive quickly, and have sufficient armament for anti-aircraft missiles, anti-aircraft defense and anti-ship missiles.
                        The time for the correct (optimal) decision was lost in 2015 \ 2016. and today we have the last chance to rectify the situation. The shipbuilding forces of the Baltic Sea and the corvettes of the Amur Shipyard cannot provide the stability of the fleet in an acceptable time frame.
                        And they will beat us on the weak points.
                        In no case should the opportunity to order these ships be neglected now. We are already 8 years late from our own plans.
                        So the order needs to be expanded. the Chinese will only be happy.
                        The fleet will be glad too.
                        And its own industry will receive an order for the construction of a large series of ships of the same type. And she will also be pleased.
                        Quote: Alex777
                        When will the six 22350M appear there? Is it even planned there? I only heard about 2 with increased BC.

                        I have heard about plans to build a series of 20 to 24 frigate destroyers 22350M, by several shipyards at the same time. With this order, 6 pcs. will definitely get to the Black Sea Fleet. Another question is when.
                        That is why I ... agree to two 055s for the Black Sea Fleet. Yes
                        And even 10 pcs. 055's in aggregate - too. bully
                        And the NK-32M technology cannot be transferred to China - only sold. These engines are unique and expensive, there will be enough work for many years. wink
                        hi
                      25. 0
                        28 October 2021 19: 14
                        Quote: bayard
                        In its known form, 22350M has 6 UKSKs for 48 KR + 3 times larger BC for Polyment-Redut, but when this project was drawn up, a different placement of UKSK was planned, now even at 22350.1 it is in two rows.

                        Are there any references for such looks? Especially 22350.1 is interesting. wink

                        Quote: Alex777
                        But for now, out of the blue, we're only talking about 055. Maybe. So let's not be distracted by something else.

                        And in vain. And we need UDC, our own will not soon be and in insufficient quantities.

                        I'm afraid we won't have more than 160 Tu-2M10. We need them ourselves too. bully

                        Quote: bayard
                        I have heard about plans to build a series of 20 to 24 frigate destroyers 22350M, by several shipyards at the same time. With this order, 6 pcs. will definitely get to the Black Sea Fleet

                        It would be lovely. Let's hope.
                        It will already look like a British Commonwealth fleet.

                        Quote: bayard
                        That is why I ... agree to two 055s for the Black Sea Fleet.
                        And even 10 pcs. 055's in aggregate - too.

                        Whatever one may say, but 10 ships of this class for 3 fleets are simply necessary for us. And focus on 22350M ourselves. hi
                      26. 0
                        28 October 2021 20: 25
                        Quote: Alex777
                        Are there any references for such looks? Especially 22350.1 is interesting.

                        Unfortunately, I don’t save the links, and the publications have been around for a long time.
                        Initially, they wanted to increase the BC KR by expanding the UKSK by 90 degrees. to install three such UKSK instead of two - for 24 cells. But later a message came that at 2235-.1 they decided to 90 gr. not to unfold, but to place 4 UKSK in two rows, i.e. already at 32 CD. As proof, a photograph of a building under construction with 4 slots for the 4th UKSK was given.
                        At the same time, the initial project of the appearance of 22350M had 6 UKSK, deployed at 90 degrees. and in two rows. But since already at 22350.1 they decided to abandon the 90 degree turn. , and to place the UKSK in two rows of 2 UKSK each, it is quite logical to expect that in the final form of 22350M, UKSK will also be placed in two rows without a turn, but in the amount of 8 pieces. - 2 times more than 22350.1, and 4 times more than fr. "Gorshkov".
                        The number of UKSK for "Polyment-Reduta" on the tank of 22350M was left the same, but at the same time, 2 times more UKSK was placed on the waist, as a result, the air defense missile system was increased by 3 times.
                        And a hangar for 2 helicopters.
                        The beast should turn out to be one more.
                        In terms of modernization (conditional Block-2), starting from the second house of the dzhiny, it would be possible to replace the Poliment radar with a radar based on the AFAR canvases truncated by the area of ​​the S-500 radar. In this case, the shipborne air defense system will be able to use long-range missiles - 250 and 400 km. , to destroy enemy AWACS aircraft and other high-altitude targets at the maximum range.
                        But this is only in the second stage of the series, when such a full-size radar will be tested and mastered on the modernized Orlans (1144) and, possibly, on the future 055 A la Russe.
                        Quote: Alex777
                        I'm afraid we won't have more than 160 Tu-2M10. We need them ourselves too.

                        I did not offer, and the Chinese did not ask us to build a Tu-160 for them. The Chinese are asking us to sell them technical documentation and a license for this aircraft. I think we can safely sell 50 such aircraft - these aircraft are not for us. But engines are only sold. Perhaps not only motors, but other components as well. For 50 aircraft, 200 engines are needed, a full set of spare engines - another 200 engines ... Well, for any unforeseen cases for emergency replacement during operation - at least 100 more.
                        Total - 500 NK-32M engines. bully
                        A very good order for engines only.
                        But there will be not only engines. smile
                        The cost of the license itself ... Yes
                        Not a bad deal.
                        But frigates in the PLO modification must be ordered.
                        And UDC 071 - they are built quickly, they are inexpensive, there are not many weapons, so there will be no serious alterations and long-term completion. And the ships are needed.
                        Quote: Alex777
                        It will already look like a British Commonwealth fleet.

                        To ensure the safety of navigation of our merchant fleet, it is impossible for us to have a smaller fleet.
                        And the most difficult situation is precisely at the Pacific Fleet.
                        Quote: Alex777
                        Whatever one may say, but 10 ships of this class for 3 fleets are simply necessary for us. And focus on 22350M ourselves.

                        It is on 22350M, which should become the backbone and the main workhorses of the DM and OZ.
                        hi
                      27. 0
                        28 October 2021 21: 01
                        Quote: bayard
                        I did not offer, and the Chinese did not ask us to build a Tu-160 for them. The Chinese are asking us to sell them technical documentation and a license for this aircraft.

                        I'm not sure if they can build planes quickly, even if they get the documentation. And time is running out for them and us ... IMHO.
                        The idea of ​​exchanging ready-made ships and aircraft seems to me more realistic. Within 2 dozen.
                        50 of these planes in China will make me nervous ...
                        I believe that not only me, but all of China's neighbors too.
                        Including the United States. They are all neighbors. bully
                      28. 0
                        28 October 2021 22: 06
                        Quote: Alex777
                        I'm not sure if they can build planes quickly, even if they get the documentation. And time is running out for them and us ... IMHO.
                        The idea of ​​exchanging ready-made ships and aircraft seems to me more realistic. Within 2 dozen.

                        Even the USSR in its best years made 5 pieces. in year . This is how much it will stretch if we declared our readiness to collect 2 pieces. in year ? And they just learned how to weld a titanium center section.
                        And you will have to forget about purchases for your videoconferencing.
                        You can sell technical documentation and process technology + key components, and collect at their factories. Or you will have to seriously expand production in Kazan, recruit and train new employees ... this is certainly good, but is it possible with our carelessness. And if our business does not go well, then we will not see the ships.
                        This is a risk for both.
                      29. 0
                        28 October 2021 22: 54
                        Quote: bayard
                        This is how much it will stretch if we declared our readiness to collect 2 pieces. in year ?

                        10-12 pcs. will do 5 years. 10-12 ships will not work faster. wink
                      30. 0
                        27 October 2021 21: 09
                        Quote: bayard
                        Donetsk for the last 7 years.

                        What have you got there. Are the Natsik badly smacking?
                      31. 0
                        27 October 2021 21: 41
                        Lately we have been hearing regularly, again they tried to set fire to the oil depot with homemade UAVs. Carried away.
                      32. 0
                        27 October 2021 22: 14
                        And about Bayraktar and D-30 fake?
                      33. 0
                        28 October 2021 00: 01
                        Yes, it seems true. If you hit from 11 km. , then there was simply nothing to get it - "Arrow-10" will not get it, but we do not have "Shell"
                      34. 0
                        28 October 2021 01: 37
                        Quote: bayard
                        "Strela-10" will not reach, but "Shell" we do not have

                        So soon they will be. Did the monkey sell a grenade to blow up?
                      35. +1
                        28 October 2021 11: 17
                        Attack UAVs in the frontline zone are a new type of targets for air defense, quite dangerous and requiring a serious attitude - suppressing communication channels and destroying command posts and bases.
                      36. 0
                        27 October 2021 20: 40
                        Quote: bayard
                        And to envisage, in the event of Japanese aggression on the islands, pinpoint nuclear strikes by "Daggers" on their naval and air force bases.

                        Don't worry about Japan. She will not climb.
                        It costs nothing to destroy. She knows. bully
                      37. 0
                        27 October 2021 20: 52
                        Or maybe she only dreams about it?
                        Kamikaze is an old national custom. Yes
                      38. 0
                        27 October 2021 21: 16
                        An ancient custom is samurai.
                        So little is left of them. Yes
                        Problems in Japan. Young people do not want to create a family.
                        Doesn't want to have children. Doesn't even want to hang out.
                        Stuck in droves in virtual reality.
                        They do not want to take responsibility for anyone but themselves.
                        They definitely do not want to fight. And they are not capable.
                        Read about the problems with recruiting into the Self-Defense Forces.
                        They even had to significantly increase the age of conscripts.
                      39. 0
                        27 October 2021 22: 17
                        The "Sumerians" did not want to either, but they themselves did not notice how they ended up in the bloodbath of 2014 ... and to this day they live like in a bad dream.
                        The scriptwriter has great experience. When propaganda does not help, special chemistry is used. On the Maidan, combat psychotropics were used, everyone was given tea. And immediately then all the drug dispensaries were overcrowded ... They were disposed of a lot near Slavyansk - like zombies walked with glass eyes.
                        Intention is nothing, opportunity is everything. And Japan has plenty of opportunities. If the correct ropes are pulled, they can climb on the face.
                        The Far East needs to be strengthened, the traffic of Arctic hydrocarbons must go through its water areas, Yakut coal ... And do not hope for chance.
                      40. 0
                        27 October 2021 22: 24
                        "Sumerians" did not want to either

                        Remember the story of the Tuzla scythe?
                        You underestimate Bandera offspring. These have been preparing for a long time.

                        The Far East needs to be strengthened

                        This is certain.
                        By the way, we read today's article on VO:
                        14th Five-Year Plan: Xi Jinping Calls for Armament Modernization, Including New Strategic Bomber

                        ??
                        For the States, our cooperation in the field of strategic aviation is just a nightmare ... If Erdogan was offered 100 lard just for refusing the S-400, then what can they offer us in this story ???
                        I would suggest Ukraine in their place ... wink
                        I am observing the situation with the LDNR freezing. Serious decisions have already been made by Russia, but suddenly a pause has formed. I wonder why?
                      41. 0
                        27 October 2021 23: 39
                        Quote: Alex777
                        You underestimate Bandera offspring. These have been preparing for a long time.

                        These - yes. Yes, only numerically, they were always marginalized, it was on the wave of the coup that they rose + in political games before the elections, they played their card.
                        80% of the population have always been against NATO and the Bandera, and especially on the eve of the coup.
                        But American money, British special services and the admin resource of local oligarchs won.
                        Quote: Alex777
                        Erdogan was offered 100 lard just for abandoning the S-400,

                        I have not heard of such a sum. Or are they on credit? lol
                        Quote: Alex777
                        I would suggest Ukraine in their place.

                        Perhaps the bargaining was going on about this, but apparently they did not agree.
                        Quote: Alex777
                        I am observing the situation with the LDNR freezing. Serious decisions have already been made by Russia, but suddenly a pause has formed. I wonder why?

                        SP-2 needs to be launched, so they are pulling.
                        In the spring they thundered their armor in response to the next offensive impulse of the Sumerians.
                        Scared.
                        And Europe too.
                        And those, together with Britain and the United States, began to prepare NATO to repulse ...
                        Cold winter, expensive hydrocarbons and the growing collapse of the economy ... wait until the cold weather.
                        Now the Anglo-Saxons will try to sway the regime amid general discontent.
                        They need to change the government so that it becomes like in the 90s.
                        Or described by Timokhin and Klimov BSU. They will not wait for the 30s, they will not live.
                        They had this action for 2022 was previously planned.
                        And it seems to me that they have not revised their terms.
                        And the Sumerians with the Yapas can be thrown under an armored train at the same time.
                        Purpose ?
                        The Sumerians are distracting themselves, the Yapas are rapidly seizing the islands, an uprising of an indignant public begins in Moscow - "hello new 1905."
                        All for his sake.
                        Such a scenario.
                        And the "sleeping" have already prepared everything for this ...
                        That is why sadness - again to the Fatherland to perish ...
                        I'm not kidding, but I really want to be wrong.
                      42. 0
                        28 October 2021 13: 33
                        Quote: bayard
                        Quote: Alex777
                        Erdogan was offered 100 lard just for abandoning the S-400,

                        I have not heard of such a sum. Or are they on credit?

                        https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2019/11/13/smi-tramp-predlozhil-erdoganu-sdelku-na-100-mlrd-v-obmen-na-otkaz-ot-s-400
                      43. 0
                        28 October 2021 14: 28
                        Ahhh, Trump's favorite approach is the bargain. For 100 billion dollars. To sell to Turkey the Patriot air defense system, F-35 and so on ...
                        This is a very good deal.
                        For the USA.
                        And for Turkey ... they made their choice. Then .
                        Both air defense systems and combat aircraft are cheaper in Russia.
                        And the United States wanted to kill Erdogan.
                      44. 0
                        28 October 2021 15: 41
                        Quote: bayard
                        And the United States wanted to kill Erdogan.

                        Rumor has it that Biden oversaw this failed case ... bully
                      45. 0
                        28 October 2021 19: 10
                        Erdogan is vindictive, but he will buy the F-16.
                        He is friends with England now.
                      46. 0
                        28 October 2021 19: 17
                        Quote: bayard
                        Erdogan is vindictive, but he will buy the F-16.

                        1,4 lard on the road are not lying around. Tries to get them out.
                      47. 0
                        28 October 2021 19: 29
                        As you know, the initially "happy" news about the allegedly first use of Turkish technology was brought by the Ukrainian blogosphere, namely, a correspondent close to the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Yuriy Butusov, who described in detail and showed a video of the event. But if the messages of the "honest" Ukrainian media could still be mistaken for the tricks of the violent imagination of local journalism, then the confirmation of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and Valery Zaluzhny, which came out later, removed some anxiety from more sane Ukrainians.
                        However, later all these messages and reflections were called "fake" and a lie. And none other than the Minister of Defense of Ukraine Andriy Taran did it. He described the previously published video in such detail that his words sounded more like an excuse and looked like an attempt to absolve himself of the possible serious international consequences.

                        Completely confused and confused?

                        https://politobzor.net/241590-ukraina-nachala-otkreschivatsja-ot-primenenija-bpla-bayraktar-na-donbasse.html?yrwinfo=1635438139502082-4535084772656405484-sas2-0798-sas-l7-balancer-8080-BAL-2215
                      48. +1
                        27 October 2021 22: 43
                        We do not stand next to this either. We stand - we have nuclear tactical weapons and strategic aviation, one wrong move of Japan and 800 cruise missiles will fall on it in the first raid. So end your tantrums.
                      49. +1
                        28 October 2021 01: 27
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        800 cruise missiles in the first raid.

                        What, all the missiles in the first raid? wink
                        I would have saved for the hegemon. He needs it more.
                        Japan has its own big problems.
                        They will not climb. Otherwise they will drown. Everything at once.
                        Even during the Soviet era, developments were made.
                        And now 1 Poseidon is enough. At the tsunami.
                      50. +1
                        27 October 2021 22: 41
                        In fact, C 300B4 divisions are already on the Kuril Islands and on the disputed islands and coastal missile systems are there, and yes, in the seaside there is a new over-the-horizon radar station for detecting ships and aircraft - and the Japanese, even if they really want to, simply will not seize anything there and inflict any strikes it just won't work.
                      51. +1
                        27 October 2021 16: 46
                        I partially agree. But if we ignore Russia, then how will the Americans then force China to peace? Naked will hardly work. A response from us will be in any case, and this will be enough for the Americans to plunge into stopping the riots on their territory. Then they will not be up to the war at all. Therefore, I consider such a blow to be suicide for the States.
                      52. 0
                        27 October 2021 19: 41
                        Quote: DmSol
                        Therefore, I consider such a blow to be suicide for the States.

                        They don't think so.
                        A very good article by A. Timokhin about the submarine's genuine readiness for war has come out today. Believe me, the enemy knows about such things as well as our common man.
                        Weakness always provokes aggression.
                      53. +1
                        28 October 2021 08: 35
                        Hello! I read the second part. It is written reasonably enough. But as for the scenario of the war, I would like to hear in more detail how it turned out to hit ALL targets in 7-8 minutes. Here either the defeat time is the same, or the start time. If the defeat time is the same, then the flight time will be different. No matter how you play with the trajectories, it still turns out not 7-8 minutes, but 25-30. And during this time, 50 percent of us will fly towards us. This time. Then the article completely ignores possible problems of carriers with access to positions, possible equipment failures, etc. In the same place, you will have to duplicate everything three times. These are two. Then there is such a thing as REP. Before the attack, you need to score the maximum number of frequencies and it is advisable to arrange sabotage on the communication lines (well, this will be entrusted to Ukrainians, for example). These are three. As a result, there will be a lot of fuss and it will be noticeable anyway. In short, it’s still an idea. For me, it’s easier to buy the top and center officers from us, well, just like in the "Marauder".
                        And finally, as a result of a retaliatory strike, they will not only have radiation damage, but they will also have to rake Mr. Businesses, destroyed dams, etc. For me, the Americans will be so behind the eyes and they will not be able to continue the war. It's good if their expeditionary force is evacuated, or even abandoned. This is the question of China. Why would the Chinese give up? In short, in our fleet, I agree, but some horror story is not particularly scary.
                      54. +1
                        28 October 2021 12: 00
                        Quote: DmSol
                        how did you manage to hit ALL targets in 7-8 minutes.

                        Of course, the flight time to each target will be different, the times are indicated for targets in the European part of the country. The "Pershing-2" from the Federal Republic of Germany had a flight time to various targets in the European part of the USSR that was 6-10 minutes. But Pershing-2 had both the speed and the length of the active section. American and British SLBMs will be launched from the Eastern Mediterranean and the Norwegian Sea, i.e. distances are about the same + more distant targets in and beyond the Urals.
                        Quote: DmSol
                        No matter how you play with the trajectories, it still turns out not 7-8 minutes, but 25-30.

                        25-30 minutes for ICBMs is already an intercontinental range of \ almost the maximum radius. I think for targets in Siberia the flight time will be 10 - 12 minutes. swing.
                        This is a really serious threat. Not less than the "European" "Pershing-2" in the 80s for the USSR. There is much less time for reaction.
                        But, for example, the same OGRLS "Container" is capable of detecting launching SLBMs in these waters almost instantly, so that the notification of an attack can be almost instantaneous. But there is still little time left.
                        And yet - "Container" (and all other ZGRLS) are very sensitive to the state of the magneto- and ionosphere, which can be caused by a high-altitude nuclear explosion.

                        Quote: DmSol
                        As a result, there will be a lot of fuss and it will be noticeable anyway.

                        Fuss a lot today, and the intensity of the fuss is growing.
                        Quote: DmSol
                        For me, it's easier to buy from us the top and center officers

                        It has always been this way and today is no exception.
                        Quote: DmSol
                        And finally, as a result of a retaliatory strike, they will not only have radiation damage, but they will also have to rake Mr. Businesses, destroyed dams, etc.

                        Even now, with a full set of strategic means, it will be possible (with luck) to suppress only the US military infrastructure (this is always a priority), but the contractual framework may not be enough for civilian infrastructure. request And in retaliation, there will be even fewer "gratitude" carriers.
                        The United States compensates for its own restrictions by the presence of a large number of its own bases around our country and the nuclear potential of its allies (at least England). And the fact that there are fewer goals for them on our territory than for us on their territory.
                        You have to be aware of this.
                        And if warheads appear on the CD on their ships, then the power of their first strike will multiply.
                        And then their SSBNs will recharge in the bases and repeat the volley.

                        Only the creation of a mirror threat to their own territory and decision-making centers can make them think and abandon their plans.
                        Quote: DmSol
                        It's good if their expeditionary force is evacuated, or even abandoned.

                        To invade (if necessary) our territory, in the first wave they will send their Eastern European vassals, then Western European allies, and only in the last place - their own troops deployed to the theater of operations.
                        Quote: DmSol
                        Why would the Chinese give up?

                        They have the overwhelming part of the economy in the coastal zone, China was not for nothing that until recently was called one of the countries "One Bomb" - a tsunami, a tectonic rift and they will find themselves in such chaos. Today, China is rapidly strengthening its air and missile defense systems, we built them an early warning missile system ... but it is still VERY vulnerable. And first of all, the economy. And today he clearly realizes that he cannot survive without Russia. But in confrontation, he constantly seeks to expose us in order to sit behind our back and enter the war at the last moment ... or just stay after it.
                        And what is most unpleasant - the United States is also much more convenient to be at enmity and even fight with us.
                        We are not their key trading partners. request
                        Therefore, you need to rely only on your own strength, and these forces to develop, strengthen and improve.
                        And take reasonable initiative.
                      55. +1
                        28 October 2021 12: 50
                        Wait and see. It is believed that next summer they will test the strategy of a preventive disarming strike on Iran. There, if you seriously open underground factories and missile bases, you cannot do without nuclear warheads.
                      56. +2
                        28 October 2021 13: 43
                        They can start this winter, they are running out of time - Iran may soon have nuclear weapons and everything will become much more serious.
                        Will Israel go for a nuclear strike?
                        Everything can be.
                        But what are the consequences of this ..?
                        Let's see . Iran did not have time to purchase combat fighters.
                      57. 0
                        28 October 2021 15: 39
                        Quote: bayard
                        Will Israel go for a nuclear strike?
                        Everything can be.

                        Israel's strategy is "nuclear response".
                        For this they have German nuclear submarines. hi
                  2. +1
                    24 October 2021 22: 01
                    If only the S-500, the rest cannot. Yes, and they are not yet in service. C235 does not exist. And the five hundred must be placed under the span of the blocks, but we do not know it.

                    Tell fairy tales in kindergarten, such a blow is not reflected by anything.
                    1. -2
                      25 October 2021 19: 34
                      Warheads - in the presence of the same early warning systems and radars of air defense and missile defense with current complexes, it is quite realistic to shoot down not all, but some of them launching missiles along the trajectory of the descent of warheads starting from heights of 30 kilometers and up to several kilometers from the surface of the earth is quite enough for this and C300V4 and C 400 Moreover, they have missiles with a range of 350 and 380 kilometers and the warheads themselves are sharply decelerated when entering the atmosphere. And the five hundred must be placed under the span of the blocks, but we do not know it. - This is why, as if the warhead did not fly, it will be detected and shot down within the radius of destruction of the complex and in height. And there are no fairy tales - now the air defense system is much more modern than the one that was in the 70s and 80s. You write tales about sudden strikes and 100% damage to the components of our early warning missile systems whose mine complexes can withstand an explosion with a capacity of 2 MGT - and Tridents 2 have a maximum warhead power of 500 kt, a minimum 100 - a course deviation of 120 meters. At the command posts, all the more no one knows where the new ones are now and they are much better protected than the old ones - knowing this they will only strike.
                      1. 0
                        26 October 2021 02: 31
                        It's time for you for a routine inspection, comrade.
                      2. 0
                        27 October 2021 22: 45
                        I don’t need any kind of inspection - it’s for you science fiction writers, divorced from reality, you need to go to get checked.
                    2. 0
                      26 October 2021 03: 47
                      Quote: timokhin-aa
                      C235 does not exist.

                      He confused it with the A-235 (Moscow missile defense).
                      Quote: timokhin-aa
                      And the five hundred must be placed under the block span, but we do not know it.

                      The S-500 should be placed in the positioning areas of ICBMs and other strategic objects. On the fly, in principle, they will be able to get it, but not in the field, they will be placed on hypothetical routes. There won't be many of them anyway and they are expensive.
                      Another thing is that in the event of a planned replacement of the radar for all S-400s, there is a temptation to expand their anti-missile capabilities. This will require a number of activities, but it will be worth it.
                      Quote: timokhin-aa
                      such a blow is not reflected by anything.

                      It will hardly be possible to repel such a blow with a 100% probability, no system is capable of such. Especially with a mass launch. To compensate, it is necessary to create a mirror threat and return to the "Gorshkov Doctrine" - initiatory offensive actions to which the enemy will have to react.
                      But these are tasks for a completely different country.
                      And another power.
              2. 0
                23 October 2021 16: 04
                How does an unpaved complex differ from mines? only more vulnerability. do you think they are somewhere unclear where they are and move along unknown routes? search the Internet, they track not only their location and routes, but every construction site on the territory.
                1. -1
                  25 October 2021 19: 37
                  That on the Internet you will direct warheads at them or you will fill up the entire length of the roads along which they are on alert with warheads - so there will not be enough warheads.
          2. +7
            22 October 2021 13: 48
            Quote: sleeve
            Will work, those (SSBN) that get to the launch areas

            And what can stop them?
            1. -6
              22 October 2021 15: 44
              Albeit weak, but the fleet. Most likely, they will not go over the Icelandic barrier. So the flight time is available in the store.
              1. +9
                22 October 2021 15: 52
                Quote: sleeve
                Albeit weak, but the fleet.

                And how can our "weak but fleet" prevent SSBNs from performing their main mission?
                1. +1
                  24 October 2021 13: 20
                  In order to fully answer this question, it is necessary to master the basics of maritime affairs, preferably in Nakhimovsky, then acquire a certain qualification for the service and graduate from the Kuznetsov Academy in St. Petersburg. After that, be continuously interested in the available intelligence and, on the basis of the read and studied instructions, manuals, orders and orders, as well as the Ship's Regulations, data on the process of combat training of "patronized" subunits and units, with the appropriate position and rank, qualitatively familiarize themselves with the nomenclature and material base available forces (combat ship composition). Based on its capabilities and availability, form anti-submarine forces within groups, detachments in order to fulfill the main tasks of the fleet. With the same goals, you should systematically develop plans of action for surface forces, naval aviation and coastal defense. All this must be carried out based on the idea of ​​defending the Motherland to the last opportunity. That is, regardless of the superiority of the enemy, your condition, use all your skills and mind. If there is no ATGM or RPG, but there is at least R-40, then we will proceed from this. Then you can get the answer to this question in detail and for sure. Well, or wait for someone to write "Will float and interfere." And you are like that in response with the "golden" phrase: "Ships do not float, but go ..." Well, then "smear" such a dilettante.
                  1. +6
                    24 October 2021 13: 46
                    Quote: sleeve
                    you need to master the basics of maritime affairs

                    That is, you do not have a specific answer?
                    I recall the question:
                    Quote: Bez 310
                    How can our "weak but fleet" prevent SSBNs from performing their primary mission?

                    I don't consider this rubbish the answer:
                    Quote: sleeve
                    All this must be carried out on the basis of the idea of ​​defending the Motherland to the last opportunity. That is, regardless of the superiority of the enemy, your condition, use all your skills and mind.

                    Sorry, but having served at the Pacific Fleet for more than 25 years, I got used to not reacting to slogans.
                    1. 0
                      24 October 2021 15: 47
                      It is a pity that you regard the duty of a soldier after 25 years of service as a slogan. In general, I will repeat once again within the meaning of my post, I have only my own considerations, but I think it is not particularly correct to issue algorithms without having a full-fledged information base. In addition, your question contains a desire to find out exactly an effective and efficient way, or even a system of measures with a guaranteed result. Not to share opinions, but to issue a recipe. I do not know how, I am not a doctor. Will we share our opinions? Personal?
                      1. +4
                        24 October 2021 15: 50
                        Quote: sleeve
                        Will we share our opinions? Personal?

                        Why do I need your "opinion" if I have knowledge and experience in these matters? I thought you had some "new" knowledge ...
                      2. +1
                        24 October 2021 22: 04
                        A man in a training attack on a real American aircraft carrier went to Tu-22M2, chief of staff of the air regiment. No need to argue.
                      3. 0
                        25 October 2021 20: 24
                        I wasn't going to. In the same place, the man said that his opinion was alien to him as the pitch of a stool. Well, I'm teachable. The communication process ended with a jump.
        2. -2
          22 October 2021 14: 10
          What about the Poseidons? Or physical education-hello 2-5MT in the area of ​​the Yellow Stone? Well, the Chinese, too, of course, will sit quietly on the sidelines and wait until everything is over? No, I do not harbor illusions that China will rush to save the Russian Federation, but I think it is obvious that China will not miss the opportunity to intervene and protect its interests from further interference by minke whales.
          1. +4
            22 October 2021 16: 19
            These are fairy tales for children, that Poseidon, that Yellowstone
            1. 0
              24 October 2021 10: 37
              Even in late Soviet times, I heard fairy tales (at different times and from different sources) about super-powerful bottom sea bombs (100 Mt) lying on the seabed and waiting for a signal. Flush North America. I think just such surprises would be much more useful than the strange "super torpedoes" and the nuclear submarine to carry them.
              1. 0
                24 October 2021 15: 56
                Duck, in fact, these are the same "land mines", only mobile and with a more complex and costly complex of counteraction. And less efficient. Plus the moral and propaganda factor.
                1. 0
                  24 October 2021 18: 38
                  Personally, I would be safer to know that the land mines are already lying on the seabed and waiting for the command than to look at this whole circus with the Poseidons and their carriers.
                  And the "Touchy" regime would insure them against possible detection and demining by the enemy.
              2. -1
                25 October 2021 16: 08
                Will be found and presented
    5. +1
      22 October 2021 10: 21
      +5
      The market in besieged Leningrad: evidence of survivors. Part of 1
      father-- survived only due to the unique cow, fat content of milk 6%, like goat. 
      blockade soldered. 
      the hungry year is -44, I don’t know how I did not die.
      lifted the blockade and left the Leningrad specialists (they had everything in an apartment, not a room) and there was no one to sell milk to, no money
      Komsomolsk, Yves region
      Reply
      A complaint
       antivirus 7 February 27, 2018 10:54

      Victory will come from mothers and wives who are able to work as long as necessary (not until the first broken nail) and tune men to Victory
      1. 0
        22 October 2021 15: 45
        That's for sure, about the rear in the sense.
    6. -7
      22 October 2021 10: 24
      Timokhin slyly inserted some "facts" allegedly the warning system will not work .... if it does not work, then Timokhin's all-purpose theses are correct ... but in general it should and is intended to work, it is on it that our security is based ... Timokhin's second thesis is completely weak, I, as a professional politician in the past, personally involved in the redrawing of the map of Europe ... uv, Alexander, I will explain ... the main conflict is not between China and the United States, and even less the United States and the Russian Federation. I managed to throw McCain (he was going for the presidency) from the American establishment for the fact that he ("wants a pathological Russophobe to divert US forces from Israel, throw Israel at the mercy of an Arab and climb into unnecessary Russia where, apart from nuclear missiles, the United States will gain nothing on its head") the main goal of the United States = the interests of Israel, not China and Russia. What Avigdor Lieberman said the day before yesterday, and Abraham Shmulevich explained to me the importance of Iran for Israel in the meantime 20 years ago in the Kremlin (I was also delusional that an Iran-US war was unlikely). In this case, the United States desperately needs Russia as a supplier of oil during the war. They only talk about the PRC-USA war, but they are already at war in the Middle East ...
      It is necessary to accept the fact that the entire industry of both China and the Russian Federation belongs to the Americans, what's the point of destroying it? Trump was removed, because he did not understand these simple truths that I know ... in addition to this, it should be noted that the days of the United States are numbered, they are waste material, like the EU, which is being extinguished before our eyes (and only the blind members of the aircraft carrier sect do not see), these are donors of migrants for a new Israel = from sea to sea, and cannon fodder for solving Israel's Arab problems. At the time of the transition of the center of the world to Israel, several independent zones of control of the PRC, RF, India, Brazil, England (where the Rothschilds will sit during the war) can be temporarily created, etc.
      so a possible attack is postponed until after the "Great Middle East War", unless, of course, you take the chance in the form of the maniac Hitler ...
      1. +4
        22 October 2021 10: 37
        Quote: vladimir1155
        Timokhin slyly inserted some "facts" supposedly the warning system will not work .... if it does not work, then Timokhin's all-purpose theses are correct ... but in general it should and is intended to work, and our security is based on it ...

        Read the article carefully. The early warning missile system will work, but 8,5 minutes of flight time when hitting a flat trajectory will not be enough to make a decision on launch, communicate the decision to the performers and work out the launch cycle. The entire retaliatory strike system is designed for a classic strike from a long distance, because its base was considered and created at a time when our fleet, at the very least, could control the enemy positional areas indicated in the article for launching from close range.
        1. -6
          22 October 2021 10: 44
          such secrets are not available to me, I don’t know (and I don’t want to know so as not to be responsible for this knowledge), and although my friend serves there and did not say anything to me (state secret), he only said when I briefly explained to him the views of Timokhin and aircraft carriers .. . "Call them a doctor" ... It seems to me that the warning system and the Strategic Missile Forces itself are the most important part of the security of the Russian Federation more important than the Navy of the Airborne Forces and the Airborne Forces combined, and the elite serves there and they pay attention to it.
        2. +3
          22 October 2021 13: 32
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Read the article carefully.

          It's useless, Alexey! Don't waste time and effort !!!
          1. +2
            22 October 2021 21: 53
            Quote: Serg65
            It's useless, Alexey! Don't waste time and effort !!!

            I'm bored, devil. ©

            By the third month in the hospital, you already start to feed the trolls. smile
            1. 0
              25 October 2021 07: 05
              Quote: Alexey RA
              In the third month in the hospital

              Something serious?????
              Quote: Alexey RA
              already you start to feed the trolls.

              laughing Well, sometimes, when courage is not enough, I also dabble in it ...
              hi Health to you!
              1. +1
                25 October 2021 11: 37
                Quote: Serg65
                Something serious?????

                The traditional illness of the Petersburg intelligentsia is consumption tuberculosis.
                Quote: Serg65
                hi Health to you!

                hi Thank you!
                1. 0
                  25 October 2021 14: 29
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  tuberculosis.

                  Maybe follow the experience of Anton Pavlovich and move to the Crimea?
        3. +1
          22 October 2021 14: 30
          Read the article carefully.

          This is when the Soviet Navy controlled the Mediterranean Sea and the North Atlantic?
          1. +1
            22 October 2021 20: 23
            In the 80s he was completely in control.
        4. -1
          22 October 2021 18: 56
          The early warning missile system will work, but 8,5 minutes of flight time when hitting a flat trajectory will not be enough to make a decision on launch, communicate the decision to the performers and work out the launch cycle. Back in the 80s, the launch preparation of missiles was brought to a few seconds, and the air defense missile defense system, like the early warning missile system, is now much more modern and the Perimeter system for the automatic launch of all missiles was not written off by anyone, and even more, it was modernized and last year a second single command post was created to control all nuclear forces 24 to 7. And the new air defense systems will nullify all these launches near our borders, since it will be easier to shoot down - at the start.
          1. +2
            22 October 2021 21: 50
            Quote: Vadim237
            Back in the 80s - the launch preparation of missiles was brought to a few seconds and the air defense missile defense system, like the early warning missile system, is now much more modern

            The rockets won't take off on their own. To launch them, a decision must be made. And not just a decision, but a decision to start a global nuclear war, the result of which, according to some hypotheses, may be the disappearance of civilization on the planet.
            And the early warning system will not give a 100% guarantee "yes, this is for sure a launch" in seconds - remember how you had to check the data on launches from the space segment using surveillance satellites and radar.
            Quote: Vadim237
            and the Perimeter system for the automatic launch of all missiles was not written off by anyone, and even more, it was modernized last year.

            The perimeter is a retaliatory strike system. And it will work if they manage to use it before the enemy delivers a disarming blow. And if the command missiles survive. And if the number of surviving launchers is sufficient to inflict unacceptable damage on the enemy.
            In the meantime, we have 40% of the SBS sit on two bases 12 miles from the border or patrol under the supervision of a potential enemy. At the same Pacific Fleet, the only living SSNS remained to escort the "Boreyev".
            Quote: Vadim237
            and last year created a second unified command post to control all nuclear forces 24 by 7

            And on it in the same way I will wait for confirmation from all segments of the early warning missile system before reporting upstairs "this is a 100% blow". Because the cost of a mistake is too high, and it will not be possible to replay.
            1. -1
              23 October 2021 18: 05
              And the early warning system will not give a 100% guarantee "yes, this is for sure a launch" in seconds - remember how you had to check the data on launches from the space segment using the surveillance satellites and radar. - It was the last time 25 years ago.
              The perimeter is a retaliatory strike system. And it will work if they manage to use it before the enemy delivers a disarming blow. And if the command missiles survive. And if the number of surviving launchers is sufficient to inflict unacceptable damage on the enemy. It is constantly in operation and no one turns it off, since it is a backup system - and most likely there are no command missiles there, but there are high-speed communication lines - command missiles must be launched and this is a waste of time until they take off to the desired altitude and start transmitting for this Most likely, in addition to the ground-based high-speed communication system, there are Doomsday planes and A 50, which are the same command and control points - everything is combined.
              In the meantime, we have 40% of the SBS sit on two bases 12 miles from the border or patrol under the supervision of a potential enemy. At the same Pacific Fleet, the only living SSNS remained to escort the "Boreyev". By 2030, there will be more of them - and ICBMs can be launched and standing at the pier will not interfere with this.
              And on it in the same way I will wait for confirmation from all segments of the early warning missile system before reporting upstairs "this is a 100% blow". Because the cost of a mistake is too high, and it will not be possible to replay. Now all these segments work an order of magnitude better than tens of years ago, respectively faster - and yes, you can't make a mistake when not one but several ICBMs fly in your direction and their number increases. But in the presence of a combined control system of the Strategic Missile Forces, these attacks for more knocking out and destruction of nuclear potential - become meaningless, since even if 10% of the potential remains, this will be enough to send the attackers to the next world. The concept of a disarming strike was relevant in the 70s and early 80s - now it is unrealizable from the word in general, since with the most fantastic option that they will disable 50% of the Strategic Missile Forces - the remaining with a slide will be enough to destroy the attacking side - and we have only two of these, the United States and Great Britain. only they have Tridents in service with nuclear submarines.
              1. +2
                23 October 2021 21: 00
                Quote: Vadim237
                - It was the last time 25 years ago.

                Judging by Vika, the last cases of false alarms of the early warning system were in 2012 and 2015.
                Quote: Vadim237
                It is constantly in operation and no one turns it off since it is a backup system - and most likely there are no command missiles there, but there are high-speed communication lines - command missiles must be launched and this is a waste of time until they take off to the desired altitude and start transmitting for this Most likely, in addition to the ground-based high-speed communication system, there are Doomsday planes and A 50, which are the same command and control points - everything is combined.

                The Perimeter has command missiles for sure. Actually, it was precisely according to them that it was precisely established that the Russian Federation has preserved this system and is working - wise people placed a tender for the maintenance and repair of products with a characteristic index on the State Procurement website. smile
                Quote: Vadim237
                By 2030, there will be more of them - and ICBMs can be launched and standing at the pier will not interfere with this.

                Once again: when launching an SLBM from the berth, there is a high probability that the launch command will come or begin to be practiced after the enemy's SBS finish in the water area of ​​the base. The whole point of the presence of SSBNs is precisely in the possibility of "getting lost" in the vastness of the ocean, surviving an enemy strike and guaranteed to strike back in any development of events. SSBNs are a weapon of inevitable retaliation, which, however, can only work if they secretly enter the positional area and patrol it.
                And if you start from the pier right away, it’s easier to build a couple of PGRK regiments instead of SSBNs.
                Quote: Vadim237
                Now all these segments work an order of magnitude better than tens of years ago, respectively faster - and yes, you can't make a mistake when not one but several ICBMs fly in your direction and their number increases.

                Oh yes ... how many satellites do we have in the space segment of the early warning system? Four out of nine are required. And by the time the latter are launched, the first ones will have to be written off.
                Our entire early warning system now rests on the ground segment - the radar.
                1. -4
                  24 October 2021 15: 25
                  "And if you immediately start on the" launch from the pier ", then it is easier to build a couple of regiments of the PGRK instead of SSBNs." Three components must be land, air and water, so the overall survival of the Strategic Missile Forces increases, you will strike at one component, the rest will respond to two components, the strike will be guaranteed to be delivered in response now and the combination created the Petrel as a combination of strategic aviation if the basing points destroy Poseidon if the SSBNs are sunk or the bases will cover the Vanguard if missile defense knocks missiles and warheads down - hence the probability of getting a retaliatory strike becomes several times higher and the efficiency of the enemy's actions in a quick global strike or a sudden disarming strike in any case will be reduced to zero and "Whoever fires first will die second with a probability of 100%"
                  Oh yes ... how many satellites do we have in the space segment of the early warning system? Four out of nine are required. If they are in a highly elliptical orbit and from it a large coverage of the Earth's surface is carried out on this satellites, at least at the moment it is a single space system "Dome". "The CEN" Kupol "currently includes four satellites" Tundra ", but by 2024 it should be brought to 10 spacecraft"
                  Judging by Vick, the last cases of false alarms of the early warning system were in 2012 and 2015.The last one happened at the Danube station 3, this station was built back in 1959, despite numerous upgrades, it has long been outdated both physically and morally - and now it is easy to check a false attack or a real one. - confirmation of data from radars and satellites that work in conjunction with the system and display information on the screen, thereby confirming each other's information.
                  1. +1
                    24 October 2021 20: 04
                    Quote: Vadim237
                    Three components must be land, air and water, so the overall survival of the Strategic Missile Forces increases, if you strike one component, the rest will respond to two components, the strike will be guaranteed to be delivered in response

                    What can be the survivability of the naval component of the strategic nuclear forces, which cannot normally leave the base and is forced to "shoot from the pier"? Or do you, like some of our politicians, seem to think that SSBNs are a priori invulnerable at any moment of their service?
                    Quote: Vadim237
                    "The CEN" Kupol "currently includes four satellites" Tundra ", but by 2024 it should be brought to 10 spacecraft"


                    Let me remind you that in December 2016 it was promised that ten Kupola satellites will be in orbit already in 2020. Then, in 2022.
                    1. 0
                      25 October 2021 19: 44
                      This means that the component base is changed to completely its own shift in everything is just because of this.
                      Or do you, as apparently some of our politicians, think that SSBNs are a priori invulnerable at any moment of their service? Everything is somehow vulnerable - but 100% vulnerability is not and never will be. And yes, the Northern Fleet also has diesel submarines for protection and the SSBNs themselves have the means of defense and attack of enemy nuclear submarines.
              2. 0
                23 October 2021 21: 56
                "ICBMs can be launched and standing at the pier, nothing will interfere with this"
                This is how the submarine standing at the pier from space looks like in commercially available images:
                https://topcor.ru/22292-pervye-izobrazhenija-amerikanskoj-apl-posle-stolknovenija-s-neizvestnym-obektom-v-juzhno-kitajskom-more.html?yrwinfo=1635013162479812-18033185988289187405-sas5-9950-2d8-sas-l7-balancer-8080-BAL-6461

                180+ Doves orbit the planet every 90 minutes, providing near real-time images for time-sensitive monitoring
                3.7 meter resolution images in four multispectral bands: RGB and Near Infrared
                https://www.planet.com/products/monitoring/
      2. +17
        22 October 2021 12: 35
        I, as a professional politician in the past, was personally involved in the redrawing of the map of Europe.


        Vladimir, I'm starting to worry about you.
        1. +6
          22 October 2021 12: 40
          I'm starting to worry about you.

          Are you just starting out, Alexander? In vain. It’s too late to worry, here you can only shrug your hands laughing
          1. 0
            22 October 2021 19: 45
            Are you just starting out, Alexander? In vain. It’s too late to worry, here you have to shrug your hands together laughing [i] [/ i]
            do not shrug it off, but you need to call 03 laughing
            1. 0
              22 October 2021 21: 03
              It won't help, judging by the fact that this frame is writing.
        2. -6
          22 October 2021 13: 20
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          I, as a professional politician in the past, was personally involved in the redrawing of the map of Europe.


          Vladimir, I'm starting to worry about you.

          I should worry about you, because if you thought that in recent years, the redrawing of the map of Europe is Crimea, which many residents of our country were involved in ... and you, in your lamentations about the attack warning system, forgot about the air defense ... " According to military expert Dmitry Kornev, In Russia, several anti-aircraft systems and complexes are capable of intercepting and destroying promising enemy hypersonic ammunition, such as the S-300 family, S-350, S-400 and S-500 air defense systems. intercept the latest modifications of the Buk air defense missile system, as well as the modernized Pantsir air defense missile system. Currently, new anti-aircraft systems are being developed, for which the interception of hypersonic targets will not present any difficulty. "
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. +1
            22 October 2021 16: 20
            But the SLBM warhead must be intercepted.
            1. -1
              22 October 2021 18: 59
              For this, it is just for the armament of the 500ki that they put new radars as well.
      3. +6
        22 October 2021 13: 31
        Quote: vladimir1155
        I, as a professional politician in the past, was personally involved in the redrawing of the map of Europe

        belay Bonopart! Can't it be you ?????
        1. 0
          25 October 2021 19: 45
          Maybe it's Adolf Hitler.
          1. 0
            26 October 2021 07: 26
            what Reincarnation error?
      4. +4
        22 October 2021 21: 41
        Quote: vladimir1155
        I, as a professional politician in the past, was personally involved in the redrawing of the map of Europe ...

        wassat love told me that he served in the General Staff of the Russian Federation
        then he said that he was a personal adviser to Putin, right now it rattles that the globalist politician is removing McCain wassat
        you are an idolater of the anti-Jewish Rothschild conspiracy
        1. -4
          22 October 2021 21: 47
          Quote: Sandor Clegane
          told me that he served in the General Staff of the Russian Federation

          You are a liar, and a coward, I did not say that, how did it hurt you that someone turned out to be smarter than you, it’s strange that you don’t associate me with Putin


          II. Mouse and Rat

          "Neighbor, have you heard the good rumor?"
          Running in, the Rat Mouse said: -
          “After all, the cat, they say, fell into the claws of a lion?
          Here's a rest and it's time for us! " -
          "Do not rejoice, my light",
          To her, the Rat says in response:
          “And don't hope in vain!
          If they reach their claws,
          That is true, a lion cannot be alive:
          10 There is no beast stronger than a cat! "
          -----

          How many times have I seen, notice it yourself:
          When a coward is afraid of whom,
          That thinks that on that
          The whole world looks through his eyes.
          1. +3
            22 October 2021 21: 53
            I’m not lying, but I’m stating the fact that a friend sent me a link about how he communicated with you, where you claimed that you were an adviser to Putin, about the sweet years of Putin’s rule - your merit, so you don’t need to throw chocolate at the fan
            1. -3
              22 October 2021 23: 07
              Quote: Sandor Clegane
              you claimed to be an adviser to Putin,

              Quote: Sandor Clegane
              said that he served in the General Staff of the Russian Federation

              liar, it's strange that in your opinion, I'm not a minister yet, you send links to my great tongue sayings, .... and study in detail every word of mine tongue and besides, you confuse all your hallucinations ...
      5. 0
        24 October 2021 05: 33
        At the time of the transition of the center of the world to Israel, several independent zones of control of the PRC, RF, India, Brazil, England (where the Rothschilds will sit during the war) can be temporarily created, etc.



        Well, finally, at least someone was honored to correctly dot the "i", all these graters are shmerki, wars need to be considered above all this, and access to mere mortals is closed there. The elite has no nationality or affiliation with any country, except that the worship of Satan himself must first be understood, and only then write about the disarming strikes.
        If, as the author writes, the United States would like to strike at Russia, they would do it without waiting for Russia to acquire military power.
    7. 0
      22 October 2021 12: 33
      It is necessary to attack NATO countries (in case of specific threats) !!!


      From the point of view of the survival of the Russian Federation, this does not matter. And even harmful. Even if the United States kills half of the population here and knocks out all strategic weapons, then tact. Nuclear weapons and delivery vehicles will remain in some quantity. This will hold back Europeans, at least some.

      And if we hit them, then that's it.

      In addition to American nuclear weapons in Europe, it is better for us not to touch anything at first, and even to resolve diplomatically with them. Non-belligerent countries in their right mind cannot be attacked.
    8. 0
      22 October 2021 16: 35
      It's just damantsev light
    9. -2
      22 October 2021 21: 08
      I have a similar question to the author. That a planet suitable for humans has been found, where these guys can wait until the dust settles and stops firing? And there is something to fly there quickly? Masons have a sense of self-preservation, how is it obligated there? The basic instinct prevails over all the others and they push their Wishlist deeper, since the creation of the Union, the carrier and the vigorous head. For many, many years. Otherwise, it would have been on fire for a long time.
      1. +1
        23 October 2021 16: 23
        the planet will not suffer in any way. take the number of nuclear warheads, read about the difference between air and ground explosions, about the factors of destruction (radioactive contamination - less than 15% of the power, with an air explosion of relatively "pure" thermonuclear charges (fission-fusion) this damaging factor is minimized), look at the tables of radii defeats, compare with the areas of countries. I somehow thought - if you strike all the existing nuclear weapons of the Russian Federation or the United States only on the most populated cities of the planet, without looking at what country they are in, then you can destroy about 1 billion out of 7
        1. +1
          24 October 2021 07: 53
          You don't need billions, you need a handful, conditionally Rothschilds, the decision to attack the host. And here the role of agent intelligence becomes much higher than the presence of aircraft carriers. Always know which atoll they climbed into the bunker on. Pins will not be able to destroy all our carriers with one blow. The launchers are well protected and the RF missile defense system is the most powerful.
          And by the way, the remaining 6 billion will bend anyway. Later
      2. 0
        24 October 2021 11: 15
        Quote: Essex62
        I have a similar question to the author. That a planet suitable for humans has been found, where these guys can wait until the dust settles and stops firing? And there is something to fly there quickly?

        Haven't you heard of the Mask?
        He's just preparing his starship to evacuate all the reptilians. Yes bully
        1. 0
          25 October 2021 01: 11
          I heard something about the Mask. And who are the reptilians?
          1. 0
            25 October 2021 08: 16
            Bill Gates with his relatives.
            Disguised.
            1. 0
              25 October 2021 09: 34
              Geitz does not even pull a lizard, compared to some there. Although the viper is rare, yes.
              1. 0
                25 October 2021 13: 51
                Just good makeup.
    10. +2
      23 October 2021 15: 55
      So what to attack and what targets? to spray the remnants of the Strategic Missile Forces not only on the United States, but also on all NATO? include cities? The "world elite" will just come out to the main squares of London, Paris, Berlin, Istanbul, etc., sit in a carved chair and wait for the rocket. No, i guess. And about 20 kilometers from the epicenter, you can watch the explosion from the veranda of the cottage.
    11. 0
      27 October 2021 03: 29
      "Attacking NATO countries ... it is necessary" in a nuclear attack on Russia, the entire continent will be destroyed by radiation. Radiation will also affect the United States. The Chernobyl explosion flew around the globe several times, but how many? There will be no more talk of a further invasion of Eurasia.
  2. +3
    22 October 2021 05: 20
    Thus, a world nuclear war will be naval.
    belay
    Oh well ... In our history of wars, all the invaders sought to defeat, first of all, our ground armed forces in the first place ... why should it be different now?
    All important industrial centers are concentrated in the depths of Russia ... and a naval war will not solve the American task of capturing these centers.
    And a war just for the sake of destruction is not economically profitable for the invaders.
    Why do the Americans need deserted and radiation-devastated areas where they will not be able to live for many years?
    For us, the task is to make an attack on us impossible for the Americans without destroying them ... therefore, the main retaliatory strike must be struck not at Europe, but specifically at the United States ... at its vital centers.
    And of course, incurable contradictions in the capitalist world are accumulating and it is felt that the war is getting closer and closer ... too many wolves are accumulating around our borders, sharpening their teeth on our country ...
    I do not want to live to see the third world war.
    Modern history follows exactly according to Lenin ... the world crisis must somehow be resolved ... and without war, capitalism has not yet learned how to do this.
    1. 0
      22 October 2021 06: 17
      How did you not learn? Very much. An example is the so-called "pandemic" wink
      1. -1
        22 October 2021 21: 30
        And what did she give, if artificially created? The crises were even more serious. What has changed globally on the planet and in our country?
        1. -1
          23 October 2021 11: 42
          Can't compare facts and analyze information? The trouble is sadness ...
          1. +1
            24 October 2021 08: 04
            So you compare and come up with different fables. Is the bourgeois economy hooked? This is how she constantly does it, because she is sharpened on a margin and crises are inevitable, even with a pandemic, even without. Humanity is not extinct? No. Are Russia and China alive? Yes. How does this compare to a vigorous butchery?
            1. +1
              24 October 2021 09: 30
              As they write, in such cases, it is clear ... Well, and so, by the way, the economy of the Russian Federation is not bourgeois? China is alive. I give it credit - everything is in the spirit of Mao's precepts "... a hundred years of labor, ten thousand years of happiness ..." And about global changes ... Walk, at least diagonally, from different sources of what is happening in the world. I want to say right away that I did not believe in the conspiracy, but simply, if not laziness, compare the template, taking into account national characteristics, the introduction of anti-pandemic measures. And, as a highlight, I am for the CIS countries, the heads of state have nothing to do with it - these are medical doctors, regional authorities, etc. etc. But only, something went wrong ... It smells like blood ... Among themselves, in every kingdom-state ...
              1. +1
                24 October 2021 10: 03
                It will dissolve. Don't be so gloomy.
                And in the Russian Federation there is a crisis, because it is bourgeois, and even raw materials, but it is far from the global northern animal. Maybe there was such a goal when this infection was invented and released, but it did not grow together. The smoking-room is alive.
    2. -5
      22 October 2021 10: 49
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Oh well ... In our history of wars, all the invaders sought to defeat, first of all, our ground armed forces in the first place ... why should it be different now?

      how to drink give this article just a seed to try (once again unsuccessfully) to push the idea of ​​aircraft carriers
      1. +1
        22 October 2021 19: 06
        It is already necessary to start dreaming about aircraft carriers - the fleet is full of other important areas of development for which huge funds are needed. And aircraft carriers with the appearance of hypersonic anti-ship missiles and anti-ship MRBMs, they become a super-expensive stuffed target with a high probability of destruction, and by this there is no point in spending money on them for the construction and maintenance of which the country will cost a pretty penny and not one.
        1. -1
          22 October 2021 19: 38
          Quote: Vadim237
          It is already necessary to start dreaming about aircraft carriers - the fleet is full of other important areas of development for which huge funds are needed. And aircraft carriers with the appearance of hypersonic anti-ship missiles and anti-ship MRBMs, they become a super-expensive stuffed target with a high probability of destruction, and by this there is no point in spending money on them for the construction and maintenance of which the country will cost a pretty penny and not one.

          fully support
    3. -1
      22 October 2021 12: 36
      Oh well ... In our history of wars, all the invaders sought to defeat, first of all, our ground armed forces in the first place ... why should it be different now?


      Well, think a little.
      Please.
      1. +2
        22 October 2021 13: 39
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Well, think a little.

        What is there to think about, Sasha? To arrange the next revolution in Russia is much cheaper and more reliable than all your BACHES ..... 5-6 billion freshly printed presidents and like in the good old days "Factories for workers, land for peasants" !!!
        1. +1
          22 October 2021 16: 21
          And if it doesn't work out ?: It is clear that it is cheaper, but you have to arrange it first.
          1. 0
            25 October 2021 07: 17
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            And if it doesn't work out?

            Twice it turned out and the third one will turn out, there is no worse enemy for the Russian than the Russian himself! By the way, your alma mater with Klimov, Novaya Gazeta is one of the links in Russia's third defeat!
            1. +2
              25 October 2021 13: 05
              What do I have to do with Novaya Gazeta, Sergei? They won't even let me on the threshold.

              I remember at one time when liberda banned on the lists of all politically hostile bloggers, preventively, I managed to get into everything)
              Even then, I joked about Nemtsov that you were abanil me in zhezhe, and you would one day be banned in real life.

              As in the water looked.

              If there is a revolution, then like this - https://topwar.ru/176856-morskaja-vojna-porazhenie-revoljucija-i-smert.html

              And B = not people like me are to blame for this, but those who shout "hurray".
              1. 0
                25 October 2021 14: 25
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                If there is a revolution, then like this - https://topwar.ru/176856-morskaja-vojna-porazhenie-revoljucija-i-smert.html

                This is practically the scenario of the 1st and 2nd Russian revolutions! But for this scenario to work, you must first decompose society! Which is what I see now, but the whole problem is that there is money for it, but there is no clear organization! In the age of publicly available information, it is difficult to introduce into the brain of a normal person that:
                Bread is made from forage varieties.
                Everything that a person sees on store shelves is Russian only by name.
                That the money earned from oil and gas goes to foreigners in full.
                That the country is on an oil needle.
                That Putin is the richest man in the world.
                That the Russian industry does not exist.
                Etc.
                Without reformatting public consciousness, the revolution will not work, even if the Japanese manage to sink a couple of Varshavyankas!
                For example, in January 1905, left-wing Russian students sent congratulatory and grateful telegrams to the Japanese emperor in connection with the outbreak of the Russo-Japanese War .... now, in your opinion, is it possible? Although here in the VO, some urge not to fight ... for Putin in case of won, but their seeds fall on unprepared soil!
                1. +2
                  25 October 2021 16: 07
                  But for this scenario to work, you must first decompose society! That is what I see now, but the whole problem is that there is money for it, but there is no clear organization! In the age of publicly available information, it is difficult to introduce into the brain of a normal person that:
                  Bread is made from forage varieties.


                  You can not decompose, but simply arrange a military defeat. You take a look at these stubborn uryakalok - can you imagine what will happen to their heads if we get pissed off by some Morocco?
                  1. 0
                    26 October 2021 07: 32
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    You can not decompose, but simply arrange a military defeat

                    Sasha, military defeat does not work without decomposition! 1941-1942 as an example for you!
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    can you imagine what will happen to their heads if we get pissed off by some Morocco?

                    People want to be proud of their country, this is their right, you blame indiscriminately the president, the government, the headquarters of all levels ... people cannot be the same!
        2. -3
          22 October 2021 19: 09
          Only it will not be possible to arrange it - since all funding channels have been cut off and all potential organizers are being monitored by the special services online - who hesitates from the beginning of the phone call and then the doorbell.
          1. 0
            25 October 2021 07: 38
            Quote: Vadim237
            Only you won't be able to arrange it.

            I envy your confidence!
            Quote: Vadim237
            all funding channels cut

            The problem of fighters is not money, the problem is the leader! Well, the chief financier has internal problems. So it’s a matter of time.
            1. 0
              25 October 2021 19: 54
              And in the leader and in money and in support - there are problems in everything and they become constant every year.
    4. -3
      22 October 2021 19: 02
      "All important industrial centers are concentrated in the depths of Russia ..." - Most of them are located in the European part in the southern part and in the Urals, 65% of the entire population of Russia lives there and then.
    5. +1
      22 October 2021 19: 47
      [quote] [/ quote] Oh well ... In our history of wars, all the invaders sought to defeat, first of all, our ground forces in the first place ... why should it be different now? [[quote] quote]
      Why should they repeat their past mistakes? hi
    6. 0
      23 October 2021 16: 31
      "All important industrial centers are concentrated in the depths of Russia ... and naval war will not solve the problem of the Americans to capture these centers." Grab? what and why? conditional GM wants to take over Avtovaz? Boeing wants to take over KAZ? give an example of what you might want to capture? but to destroy - yes it is possible. take any plant, draw 2-3 thousand km with a compass, find water more than 100 meters deep. roughly up to 1 ton km - axes, more - trident.
  3. +3
    22 October 2021 05: 21
    What should we prepare for and what will be the role of the Navy
    Duc, Ely-Pali. After all, our everything told us what to prepare for in this case: to go to heaven. And everyone else will just die. Any other conversation on this topic is an empty concussion of air (paper stains, keyboard amortization, etc.), since they go against the words уguarantor. Dixi. And amen.
    1. +1
      22 October 2021 05: 49
      After all, our everything told us what to prepare for in this case: to go to heaven.
      In Paradise, places are reserved for a select few. smile
      We mere mortals will have to be content with the seats at its entrance.
      In the American film ..2012 ... it is clearly shown who will be saved and who will be saved in the first place ... although the end of the world is predicted for us every year and it still does not come ... smile we will not die alive.
  4. +11
    22 October 2021 05: 42
    As an article with the heading “fiction (not
    scientific) "got into the" analytics "section?
    1. +2
      22 October 2021 12: 36
      Is there anything to object to in essence?
      1. -2
        22 October 2021 16: 38
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Is there anything to object to in essence?


        There is. There will be no nuclear war.
        1. +1
          22 October 2021 17: 35
          It's just your faith and nothing more.
          1. +1
            22 October 2021 17: 37
            There must be a winner and a loser in war. If the result is two defeated, then what is the meaning of the war?
            1. +1
              23 October 2021 01: 26
              What makes you think that there will be two defeated?
              1. -2
                23 October 2021 05: 17
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                What makes you think that there will be two defeated?


                And how many?
                1. +2
                  24 October 2021 22: 08
                  One for example. The one who was suddenly fried with 30+ nuclear charges in 1500 minutes, but he could not answer.
          2. -2
            22 October 2021 19: 12
            Find idiots who will attack the second most powerful nuclear power in the world - if there are such, it is definitely not the United States.
  5. +15
    22 October 2021 06: 02
    The increase in military tension is clearly felt in the world. The United States is ready to extend its technologies for building nuclear submarines to third countries, to Australia ..... (Many letters)
    If you try to "play" for the Americans, then the most profitable strategy of confrontation with China is as follows - you need to knock out a weak support, Russia, and then just dictate an ultimatum to China. Destroying China completely is undesirable, it is an important trading partner of America. He must be put on his knees. Russia is not an important partner, you can do whatever you want with it (end of letters).

    Lots of arguments in favor of the fact that the Americans will definitely attack Russia in the 2030s. Very far-sighted and prophetic. The only problem is that if the author can predict such a thing, what he does on the Internet at all. His place is next to the President of the country.
    In general, I will throw in one more argument. Wars are one of the options for natural selection, along with epidemics, only except for God (if there is one) no one from people can predict them.
    The technical aspects of such a strike are very well dealt with in the work of American scientists Lisbeth Grönlund and David Wright, "Sea-based Flat Trajectory Ballistic Missiles: Technical Assessment and Control Capabilities." Unfortunately, you can still find points of view about the impossibility of such a blow. This work reveals the issue well.

    No state in its right mind will publish such information in the media. This is a common "fake" as well as hearings in the Senate or Congress, designed for the layman.
    The advantage of such a launch is speed - the rocket needs to fly a much shorter distance along the combat path than when flying along a ballistic trajectory. When striking from the Mediterranean Sea, from the region of the Ionian Islands and Crete by the 60th missile division of the Strategic Missile Forces in the Saratov region and the long-range aviation airbase in Engels nearby, the missile's flight time from the moment of launch will be no more than 8,5 minutes or less. A ballistic missile at its speed just travels a short distance very quickly.

    Finally, the article went infa on the case, though almost any person who is interested in military affairs knows this matter. You (the author) would better tell about the aiming by ships of missiles at 500+ km using the backscatter method. That's really a rare infa. Yes, by the way, the mine is not so easy to disable from the submarine, you definitely need to get there, and along the flat trajectory, the accuracy is greatly reduced.
    As it has been written more than once, Americans are almost impossible to demoralize.

    Uh, the American supervillains from their comics?
    the bulk of tactical nuclear weapons and most of the leadership have been destroyed.

    Tactical weapons (like the manual wassat ) is highly distributed and hidden. It is very difficult to completely destroy it, here thousands of charges are needed.
    And secondly, it would be unfair to criticize the current state of affairs without proposing any urgent measures to remedy the situation here and now.

    Criticize, do not criticize, you will still get ... the answer is that we build what we can and not what we would like in our dreams.
    In general, the article is a classic case of pulling the American Bald Eagle on Russia.
    1. +1
      22 October 2021 06: 58
      Quote: KKND
      As it has been written more than once, Americans are almost impossible to demoralize.

      I dug around the net, but I couldn't find the table I needed. Once looked through. The meaning is this: The percentage of one-time losses in hostilities leading to the complete demoralization of units (by country). Any French with Hindus did not interest me then, I do not remember about them. But I remember about us and the Merikans - we have 60%, they have 15% !!! If anyone knows where to find this table, post it.
      1. +2
        22 October 2021 10: 43
        Quote: NDR-791
        But I remember about us and the Merikans - we have 60%, they have 15% !!!

        4th PD and 28th PD ("bucket of blood") clearly disagree with this table. smile
      2. 0
        22 October 2021 13: 13
        You damn it, try to get them 15% first!
      3. +1
        23 October 2021 00: 42
        Combat efficiency is a complex issue and is determined differently for different levels. If the following numbers are correct for operational connections and alliances:
        high level (90-100% of functioning elements); middle level (70% -90%); low level (50-70%). At the same time, the possibility of restoring combat effectiveness is assessed as follows: the state of the formation allows to restore its combat effectiveness completely without changing the organizational structure (30-50% of the functioning elements), partially (20-30%), does not allow to restore the combat capability (less than 20%).
        What the Soviet Military Encyclopedia told us about.

        Then at the tactical level, everything is completely different. 10% of personnel losses in killed and wounded, let's say in a company, gives about 60% of the temporary loss of the combat capability of the l / s as a result of psychological trauma. Which leads to a temporary loss of combat capability and stability of the unit. And it takes from a couple of hours to several days to recover

        Roughly speaking, with 10% killed, a platoon-company of any army will run
        1. +1
          24 October 2021 08: 57
          If so, then Moscow, in 42m the Germans took and Stalingrad took. The losses were well over 10%. They didn't run.
    2. +1
      22 October 2021 12: 42
      Yes, by the way, the mine is not so easy to disable from the submarine, you definitely need to get there, and along the flat trajectory, the accuracy is greatly reduced.


      We google the work of BB W76-2, where this moment is provided.

      Tactical weapons (like the wassat manual) are heavily distributed and hidden.


      Some will be covered in any case.

      It is very difficult to completely destroy it, here thousands of charges are needed.


      It is NOT THAT scattered.

      Criticize, do not criticize, you will still get ... the answer is that we build what we can and not what we would like in our dreams.


      From a sequel already written but not yet published.

      The RF Ministry of Defense has long and deliberately embarked on a policy of refusing to urgently correct critical shortcomings in the combat training of the Navy and naval development, preferring to “flood” everything with propaganda. It is difficult to say why, but the Ministry of Defense is ready to spend more on show than on real combat training - just not to solve real problems. This is often not the case in the Ground Forces, sometimes
      not so in the VKS, but almost always so in the navy. This is precisely the principled approach: “We will not prepare for war anyway, so that you don’t shout from below, okay?”
      But the Defense Ministry's propaganda machine will certainly be set in motion. And, as soon as the people realize the meaning of the numbers given in the tablets, then, without fail, through hired bots and controlled forums, the thesis will be thrown into society en masse that, they say, yes, there are few submarines, but the economy simply does not allow ...
      Due to the seriousness of the issue, this lie must be crushed in advance, at birth.
      So, let's look at whether it was possible to take somewhere not only money, but also building places. Oh yes, and have we lost somewhere "extra" submarines.


      I'll step on my face and crush to death. It is cruel and painful.

      PS And you are fast guys there, in Olgino))
  6. +1
    22 October 2021 06: 15
    Delirium of a sick person. Russia is full of internal problems that need to be addressed. Otherwise it will be very bad.
    1. +2
      22 October 2021 12: 43
      No, it’s you just hit your head on reality. Think a little and find a counter argument - the REAL one.
      Everyone can be hysterical ...
      1. -2
        22 October 2021 19: 21
        What you wrote in the article is mostly fiction. Especially about a disarming strike, it was possible at the turn of the 70s of the 80s of the last century - now it is impossible in view of the development of the Russian early warning system of both ground and satellite computing systems of air defense missile defense systems as their single bunch of command posts - the creation of new and acceleration of information transfer.
        1. +1
          23 October 2021 01: 27
          You get into the habit of reading what you are trying to comment on.
          1. -4
            23 October 2021 18: 12
            It was said in the article about the disarming strike - and so it is not possible. And yes, the lower the ICBMs fly, the easier it will be to shoot them down. The C 500 is already in service, and by 2030 there will be at least 20 regiments in European Russia.
            1. -1
              25 October 2021 16: 04
              You are apparently insane. You have to place these S-500s with a solid fence around Moscow and all possible targets, in hundreds.
              1. 0
                25 October 2021 20: 10
                Moscow has its own ABM A 235 - 68 interceptor missiles 53T6M - the Prometheus division has 10 launchers, two missiles for each installation and for one target in the regiment of the 2nd division of 10 regiments of 20 divisions - 400 missile defense missiles plus S 300PMU - 28 divisions spitting S 400 - 12 divisions in each division from 8 to 12 launchers on each of 4 missiles, approximately 1668 missiles in total - this is without 500ok - is quite enough to repel a massive strike as you can see the fence is already there. And let Buki Armor Torah Knights and the Air Force deal with hundreds of other aerial targets.
      2. 0
        25 October 2021 13: 52
        Good afternoon, Alexander, without touching on the technical aspects of the article and the very possibility of a preventive disarming strike, I ask you to reveal in more detail one point:
        Do you really think that the "Chinese comrades" will sit and watch as the warheads of ballistic missiles fly over their heads in our direction and believe that all this will definitely not affect them?
        After all, the early warning system will work not only for us, but also for the Chinese, and they will also have a few minutes to react, and they cannot be sure that this blow will not affect them in principle ... how can they know that this is not him?
        In theory, they will have to respond, just like us, to everything that is available, and if we consider that the entire blow of the Americans, according to your logic, will fall on our territory, then the response of the Chinese will reach the United States completely.
  7. -2
    22 October 2021 06: 41
    The author, just don't need to continue, the elder has already explained that in the event of a nuclear war, the Americans and the Europeans will go to hell, we will go to heaven. So you can omit the details of how humanity will get to these places.
    1. +1
      22 October 2021 12: 44
      I want to live more.
  8. +15
    22 October 2021 06: 45
    And here I put a plus! Yes
    The man expressed his opinion. He also looks at the box (computer monitor, smart screen), reads the press. He analyzes something ... He thinks ... Because of everything that is happening in the world today, from the historical examples of recent history, he drew the following conclusions. Nobody prevents each of us from doing the same thing - I mean at least think (there is such a hinge in the brain). And the fact that his conclusions turned out like this is our reality. Personally, they are not rosy for me either. request Because I don’t want to slide down to the imbibition with the needs of "jeans and gum" and indulge myself with the illusion that "the west will help us". No. The concepts of conscience and justice have not yet been canceled. And it is precisely the Western way of life that they are alien to (the top, and it is they who make the West so destructive)). Therefore, it would be better for me to proceed from the darkest assumptions and prepare for the worst than to live in peace with a pink sky and in anticipation of manna from heaven ...

    PS And personally, I am convinced that as soon as the invaders figure out how to neutralize our nuclear weapons or reduce its alleged damage from it to a minimum, they will strike. Although already now they are probing and hitting through the media, sports, and various juvenile and gender programs. we are superfluous for them, because we are not like them and we have resources. And you, sitting on the sofas, laugh at Timokhin and Klimov. Although they are largely right. And it’s better to think again now than to scratch turnips later, when it’s too late ... It was possible to sleep peacefully under the Soviet Union, when we were strong and were feared and respected. But now we do not live in the USSR ...
    Personally, my opinion request hi
    1. +3
      22 October 2021 08: 41
      Quote: Rurikovich
      Although already now they are probing and hitting through the media, sports, and various juvenile and gender programs.

      The first transgender, Admiral R. Levin, was sworn in in the United States this week. The Pentagon argues that the new trans admiral will bring the navy enduring leadership in the covid era.
      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10112005/GOP-Rep-Jim-Banks-criticized-calling-transgender-admiral-man.html
      1. +9
        22 October 2021 08: 48
        new trans admiral will bring sustainable leadership to the fleet
        O! Now they will have a new title - Trans Admiral! Any "men with a tattoo on ...", as in "Remove Periscope", will never reach such a title. Well, if the tattoo along with the hose is not cut off, I suppose
        1. +1
          22 October 2021 08: 58
          "- Davis, they say, was no worse, - said Silver. - But I never sailed with him. I sailed first with England, then with Flint. And now ... We have a transgender admiral."
    2. -5
      22 October 2021 13: 29
      Quote: Rurikovich
      It was possible to sleep peacefully in the Soviet Union

      you were all asleep, now it is clear, well, you all slept,
      1. Aag
        0
        24 October 2021 18: 22
        Quote: vladimir1155
        Quote: Rurikovich
        It was possible to sleep peacefully in the Soviet Union

        you were all asleep, now it is clear, well, you all slept,

        Edrit-madrid! How did you clean up, optimize and revive everything behind us !!!
  9. 0
    22 October 2021 06: 55
    One bridle for aggressive politicians is economic ties. And as long as they bring in huge income, no one will dare to start a nuclear war. Many are wondering whether there will be a war over Taiwan. I think, and not only me, the Chinese are preparing a Crimean version there. This will take time, but it is possible. And then everyone is stopped by the feeling of self-defense. You can fantasize as much as you like, but life takes its toll. We all have children and grandchildren, and only a madman will decide to ensure their unenviable fate.
    1. -8
      22 October 2021 11: 03
      Quote: nickolai.maliugin
      One bridle for aggressive politicians is economic ties.

      the alliance of England and Australia is not directed against China, it is created to strengthen England at the time of the drain of the United States from the great powers .. along with the dollar. The pound came out of an intimate swap relationship with non-backed currencies like the dollar and the euro, so the Russian stabilization fund will soon be zeroed out, as will the glass bank savings of all pro-American residents of the Russian Federation
    2. 0
      23 October 2021 21: 46
      Quote: nickolai.maliugin
      One bridle for aggressive politicians is economic ties.
      Before the First World War, they said so too.
  10. -1
    22 October 2021 06: 59
    Here I have not mastered the article to the end. There are a lot of assumptions, hypotheses and "maybe" options. As a variant of the development of world events, it may be .... But in my opinion, the FSA will definitely receive their answer. Even under the USSR, all the positional areas of the deployment of the FShAN SNF were identified and taken under observation. For a disarming surprise strike, it is necessary to concentrate a lot of striking forces, and it is very difficult to quietly withdraw such a number of infiltrators from the bases and collect them in shock positions.
    1. 0
      22 October 2021 12: 44
      FShnyh SNF were identified and taken under observation.


      False
      1. 0
        22 October 2021 14: 16
        That is, you want to say that our General Staff does not know the positional areas from where they can strike at us?
        That is, during the Soviet Union they were picking at the nose, and now they are picking ...
        1. +3
          22 October 2021 16: 22
          The lie is that they are "under surveillance."
          1. 0
            23 October 2021 00: 08
            Let's say Liana hasn't been fully deployed yet. But have we already run out of reconnaissance satellites?
            The location of the FShnyh bases where their attack submarines are based and the destroyers did not seem to have changed either. And therefore, we also "cannot" fix the mass exit?
            As far as I remember, the DNSV-3 provides for the notification of the other side about the change in the deployment of strategic nuclear forces and the absence of such notification during redeployment is already the signal itself by sib ...
            But this is my vision of the situation.
            1. +1
              23 October 2021 01: 28
              There are ways to provide surprise and massive exit at the same time. I will not list them. It is difficult, but possible.
              1. +2
                23 October 2021 07: 57
                And I will not argue with this either, but there is the SVR, there is a radio-electronic intelligence service. Plus residents and many other organizational issues that are difficult to hide before the war. For example, receiving and loading TNW and nuclear weapons onto carriers.
  11. +7
    22 October 2021 07: 04
    The increase in military tension is clearly felt in the world.

    The author is a little different. Military tension is created by the efforts of propagandists of all stripes to solve very specific problems.
    Using the image of the enemy and military psychosis for the so-called negative mobilization of society is a rather ancient method, but still one of the most effective, especially given the potential of modern media.
    The existence of "enemies" and the "threat of an imminent war" make it possible to effectively maintain a certain unity of society, instill in the society that it is this unity that will ensure this society's existence, and in order to preserve this existence, further strengthening of the existing power is necessary in order to protect this very existence.
    Today's article is just a vivid example of creativity in this "braced" field.
    1. 0
      22 October 2021 11: 05
      Quote: Undecim
      Military tension is created by the efforts of propagandists of all stripes to solve very specific problems.

      specifically Timokhin was going to create "tension" to launder the image of the aircraft carrier
    2. +1
      22 October 2021 13: 00
      Using the image of the enemy and military psychosis for the so-called negative mobilization of society is a rather ancient method, but still one of the most effective, especially given the potential of modern media.


      Yes you are right.




      1. +4
        22 October 2021 17: 06
        So Poyer's laurels in the field of altistory and fantasy haunt you? Frankly, you are still far from him, with all due respect to you. And before Shirreff, too, you are clearly not yet a general's rank.
        1. 0
          22 October 2021 17: 36
          I am far from them, as far as the materials of the domestic media are from the already uncovered pre-war anti-Chinese and anti-Russian propaganda in the West.
          1. +2
            22 October 2021 17: 53
            According to the media, I agree that the quality is below the plinth, it is enough to look at the "News" section of this site.
            This concerns, by the way, "West" - this bogey has already turned into a meme. The "West" is already from all sides, if you follow the propaganda.
            In reality, the situation is somewhat different, but thanks to the ignorance of the audience, which in the overwhelming majority of foreign-language media is not able to master, the "West" is successfully used in propaganda.
            1. 0
              22 October 2021 18: 07
              But I read foreign-language media! And the scribbling of all sorts of RAND, CSBA, etc.
    3. +1
      22 October 2021 19: 39
      I will disappoint you.
      The ordinary American doesn't care deeply about propaganda. Its cohesion is ensured by the availability of affordable chewing gum, jeans and other goodies of the consumer society. Hence your THAM formula does not work.
      However, this does not prevent (the image of the Evil Empire) from knocking out the required amount of money from Congress, which is by no means spent on the construction of dachas for the American generals, but on very specific military programs.
      As for the reality of a nuclear conflict, on the contrary, Western means of influencing the minds accustom the population to the idea that the apocalypse is not so scary, there is always hope and, in general, are these nuclear explosions really so dangerous ...

      ps Do not forget, also, that it is in the USA that various options for delivering preventive strikes on the territory of the USSR / RF are regularly being developed.
      Also, thanks to the detailed plans, in the 90s we were actually left without carriers, without charges and without a defense industry in general.
      1. +2
        22 October 2021 20: 41
        I will disappoint you.

        You can't do it.
  12. +3
    22 October 2021 07: 54
    Weapon barons, unlike the author, know how to count money. Preparing for war is where the big profit is. The war on foreign territory itself is not bad either. And the war that the author describes will bring absolutely nothing to the bank.
    1. 0
      22 October 2021 13: 01
      Only world domination will forever bring.
      Do you think it is not good for the egg-capsule?
      1. 0
        22 October 2021 21: 39
        Actually, a person does not see objective things. Namely, that controlled chaos is much more profitable for the manager's wallet.
  13. AML
    -3
    22 October 2021 08: 34
    Quote: Civil

    And whose interests and what wealth should the Russians protect? Loans?

    As I understand it, you are an orphan rejected by society, a Sotsilpat, who has neither children nor relatives. Yes, there really is nothing to defend such.
  14. AML
    -5
    22 October 2021 08: 39
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    After all, our everything told us what to prepare for in this case: to go to heaven.
    In Paradise, places are reserved for a select few. smile
    We mere mortals will have to be content with the seats at its entrance.
    In the American film ..2012 ... it is clearly shown who will be saved and who will be saved in the first place ... although the end of the world is predicted for us every year and it still does not come ... smile we will not die alive.

    If this makes it easier for you, then you can cross out the Jews from the potential queue to heaven. They are ordered to come to hell and put their thoughts in order there.

    Oh yes. Orthodox Christians have no definition of hell. Here you have to make room.
  15. AML
    -6
    22 October 2021 08: 41
    Quote: sergo1914
    As an article with the heading “fiction (not
    scientific) "got into the" analytics "section?


    Why fiction? The author is even a bit optimistic. The 25th year will be a turning point. The threshold will be an economic crisis for 24 years. All moves are recorded, no one is hiding anything from anyone.
    1. +1
      22 October 2021 19: 55
      Why fiction? The author is even a bit optimistic. The 25th year will be a turning point. The threshold will be an economic crisis for 24 years. All moves are recorded, no one is hiding anything from anyone.
      Rather political hi
      1. 0
        23 October 2021 01: 57
        The threshold will be an economic crisis for 24 years.

        The crisis suddenly comes earlier. Literally in 2022. Now there is an energy crisis in China and Europe, and this will drop the world's largest economies by spring.
  16. +19
    22 October 2021 08: 58
    I read the entire article, and even the available comments.
    And I will also speak out. The article is long, people have almost forgotten how to read something more than SMS, and they hardly perceive such an array of letters and words.
    In the article, the author expresses sound thoughts - war is possible, the enemy will strike from under the water, and at the end of the article he hints - our fleet is not ready to resist not only this strike, but even there are doubts about our ability to deliver a "retaliation strike". I agree with the author, to my great regret ...
    1. -9
      22 October 2021 10: 04
      You are ordinary alarmists! You are not admitted to the operational plans for the use of the Russian armed forces, therefore you cannot analyze them. What are the smartest or what ??? We have no minds in the General Staff who calculate all the options for attacking us ...)))
      1. +6
        22 October 2021 10: 10
        Quote: Voenmeh
        You are not admitted to operational application plans

        A long time ago I saw one such plan. I have already forgotten everything, but I know for sure that now we do not have the strength and means to fulfill that old plan, and the threats have only increased.
        "That's the way, guys ..."
      2. +8
        22 October 2021 10: 47
        Quote: Voenmeh
        You are ordinary alarmists! You are not admitted to the operational plans for the use of the Russian armed forces, therefore you cannot analyze them. What are the smartest or what ??? We have no minds in the General Staff who calculate all the options for attacking us ...)))

        Any plans are based on personnel and materiel. And the materiel of our Navy is well known - it is such that the fleet is not able to control even BMZ. What's the use of the same "Boreas" if there is nothing to bring them out even from the bases?
        1. 0
          23 October 2021 01: 59
          Our Navy has a submarine division in which there is not a single combat-ready submarine, but according to Wikipedia, they are all in service.
      3. 0
        22 October 2021 20: 02
        You are ordinary alarmists! You are not admitted to the operational plans for the use of the Russian armed forces, therefore you cannot analyze them. What are the smartest or what ??? We do not have minds in the General Staff who calculate all the options for attacking us ...))) [i]
        Well, think about it). In the light of the article, it is not in vain that they are fighting for Tartus. But there is nothing special to fill it with. Not quantitatively, not qualitatively. And six diesel engines are clearly not for the Black Sea ... hi
    2. -6
      22 October 2021 15: 42
      Read the full article
      also read it completely,
      In the article, the author expresses sound thoughts
      does not express the author of common thoughts, it is not clear where you found them.
      war is possible, the enemy will strike from under the water
      Yes, a war between the United States and Russia is possible in principle, but definitely not the same as the author described! Why should the US fight Russia? why should they attack Russia when it's easier not to touch? Are we claiming the role of world hegemon instead of the United States?
      our fleet is not ready to resist not only this blow, but there are even doubts about our ability to deliver a "retaliation strike"
      not capable, but he has not been able to do this for 2-3 decades. There is a problem, it must be solved. But this does not mean that the United States is planning an attack and war to destroy Russia.
      1. +2
        22 October 2021 15: 55
        Quote: andybuts
        does not express the author of common thoughts, it is not clear where you found them.

        So after all, the very concept of "sound thoughts" in our country may not coincide.
        There are a lot of things in this life that are "incomprehensible" to me ...
  17. -2
    22 October 2021 09: 01
    And in the second part, measures will probably be proposed how to stop a nuclear war or how to protect yourself? smile The author, maybe it's better about the reactor? About your favorite lunar tractor? smile If you are infected with war psychosis, do not infect others.
    1. +1
      22 October 2021 13: 02
      There will be measures, yes.
  18. +4
    22 October 2021 09: 18
    Unhappy owl .... Ohio is retiring, the money is running out, the dollar is dying, that's why there will be a war. And therefore, the power must be strengthened so that the bad ones do not defeat us. It is popular both in the East and in the West and is sooooo convenient for the authorities, of all stripes ...

    And that is why you, dear people, will endure inflation and a digital concentration camp and oligarchy, and you will work until the grave cover. This is how I understand the message of the article.
    1. 0
      22 October 2021 13: 03
      Do not distort, it is better to object in essence to the fact that the described scenario is impossible.
      1. -2
        22 October 2021 13: 35
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        better object in essence to the fact that the scenario described is impossible.

        I object 1 missile attack warning system will work 2 air defense of the country will not wait for the command, all NATO missiles will explode in the air over Poland 3 those that break through will be shot down before reaching Moscow and the positional areas of the Strategic Missile Forces 4 RVSN and RPKSN will respond ... well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_wopnTZT4s your move
        1. +1
          22 October 2021 16: 23
          You missed your scheduled medical examination, Vladimir.
    2. +2
      22 October 2021 14: 30
      In fact, the author did not write a word about the need to strengthen the unity of the party (United Russia, of course) and the people.
      It seems that in the future, solutions will be offered by technical and organizational, rather than moral and volitional.
  19. +4
    22 October 2021 09: 35
    Apparently, the economy and the well-being of the people in Russia collapsed so much that it is necessary to drive a terrible enemy into the heads of the people in order to divert attention from the golden toilet bowls and the safe rooms of the colonels. Generals can be kept silent.
    1. +2
      22 October 2021 13: 49
      Quote: savoj
      ideally, the economy and the well-being of the people in Russia collapsed so much that it is necessary to drive a terrible enemy into the heads of the people

      what So you think Timokhin is Putin's agent?
      1. 0
        22 October 2021 19: 25
        Poor Putin - how many agents he has how many you need to know.
  20. -3
    22 October 2021 09: 55
    It seems that there are fools in our General Staff, unlike the author of the article. I just think the opposite. And I suggest that the author go to the kitchen and slap a glass. There are probably no other options for the author ....))))
    1. +10
      22 October 2021 10: 15
      Quote: Voenmeh
      It feels like fools are sitting in our General Staff

      Well, you ... Stop slandering!
      Those who have managed to get into the General Staff and get an apartment in Moscow are sitting there, and these are definitely not fools.
      1. +10
        22 October 2021 10: 51
        Quote: Bez 310
        Those who have managed to get into the General Staff and get an apartment in Moscow are sitting there, and these are definitely not fools.

        Pomnitsa, one of the admirals, during discussions about transferring the fleet headquarters from Moscow to St. Petersburg, blurted out in the heat of the moment: "What's the move? I have an apartment here, connections, business". smile
        1. +4
          22 October 2021 11: 04
          Quote: Alexey RA
          business

          Yes, you can talk a lot about the "General Staff business" and tastefully, but no one will believe it. And they will do the right thing! There people think only about the war!
          1. +1
            22 October 2021 12: 34
            Are you sho? How can you? Can not be?! She's there day and night thinking about ... about all sorts of interesting things. The only question is, who is interested, but that is ... And about "telling" ... Do not let the site under the hammers, pliz wink
  21. -1
    22 October 2021 09: 56
    From the article, I realized that:
    1. The author is a defeatist
    2. The author does not understand economics

    Because the purpose of the war is to solve political and economic problems. War for the sake of war is nonsense.
    Can you please tell me, the Author, what problem is the United States solving by inflicting a nuclear strike on the Russian Federation?
    You say "run the world," "keep the American way of life."
    What kind of governance can there be, when there is no one to govern, and what kind of lifestyle will there be in the Fallout era?
    Maybe there are some perverts in the States who can't wait to get into the bunker and who are ready to exchange their current permissiveness for imprisonment and fear of death - I do not argue. Morons are always there.
    But it seems to me that the US leadership is still striving for its own enrichment, for wealth for its elite, etc.
    And this goes against the concept of global war and the destruction of markets and consumers.
    1. 0
      22 October 2021 13: 04

      Because the purpose of the war is to solve political and economic problems. War for the sake of war is nonsense.
      Can you please tell me, the Author, what problem is the United States solving by inflicting a nuclear strike on the Russian Federation?


      So in the article it is written, you are simply inattentive
    2. -2
      22 October 2021 15: 23
      The author does not understand economics

      it has been obvious for a long time. He is also not on friendly terms with logic.

      what task is the United States solving by delivering a nuclear strike against the Russian Federation?

      As I understood from the article, the United States is spending its last nuclear warheads (the article says that the United States will not be able to restore them, 3750 warheads are their last nuclear weapons) on a useless strike on Russia, which, in principle, is not an enemy, so that China then surrenders. Only that is why China in this case does not strike the US with its nuclear weapons without fear of already receiving a response. Indeed, in the courtyard of the 2030s, and the PRC in a dozen years its Strategic Missile Forces is quite capable of pumping its Strategic Missile Forces to the level of modern Russian Strategic Missile Forces. Moreover, he does not have START treaties. And he will have enough SSBNs. And the United States will not be able to simultaneously hunt for all Russian SSBNs and Chinese SSBNs.

      The cherry on top is the dubious status of the United States as a serious nuclear power after the 30s.
      This does not fit well with the US's trillion-dollar nuclear modernization program. Even VO wrote https://topwar.ru/131517-trilliony-na-tretyu-mirovuyu.html
  22. +8
    22 October 2021 10: 47
    The author does not recall the threatened period. Now you just can't start WW3. Ships must go to the launch lines en masse, nuclear weapons must move from permanent storage bases to forward ones or directly to the troops, etc. During this period, everyone is scattered, the hands on the ZKP, airplanes on the front and reserve sites, ships from bases at sea, etc. And then everything will not be smooth. Yes, cities and stationary bases will be covered, but a return line, or even a return line, is inevitable. And that is unacceptable damage. Why does the striped elite need their own country in radioactive embers, with destroyed infrastructure, a collapsed dollar and radioactive everything around for decades? They will go to WW3 only in one case: if Russia is militarily weakened to the point where the answer is acceptable to them. So we arm ourselves, keep the powder dry, and then the mattress mats won't come to us.
    1. 0
      22 October 2021 13: 04
      This will be the main operational problem of the enemy - to covertly prepare for a strike in peacetime.

      It can be solved, I checked))
      1. 0
        22 October 2021 19: 51
        I will also disappoint)))
        It is enough for the planned economy of the State Department and the Pentagon to rise to a gradual increase in KOH.

        Equal to one, it is not needed for a disarming strike, given the quantity and quality of SLBMs from their SSBNs.
        I'm not talking about the carriers of cruise missiles and other joys at the adjacent bases.
        1. 0
          23 October 2021 18: 20
          Subsonic cruise missiles attacking on flat terrain - what to scare ours a year ago, the Ministry of Defense signed a contract for the supply of 300 Torov M2 until 2027 hello to all cruise missiles and aircraft with UAVs who will stick into our airspace. And yes, since Russia withdrew from the INF Treaty on Iskander, most likely there are already the necessary missiles just for these bases along the perimeter next to our border.
          1. -3
            23 October 2021 18: 38
            And at these bases, of course, there is no air defense or missile defense. They sit and wait for the escanders.
            1. 0
              24 October 2021 15: 32
              In addition to the Patriot air defense system, there is definitely nothing more serious there - and we evaluated their effectiveness against the old Scuds using the example of Saudi Arabia when the Houthis from Yemen fired at them.
              1. 0
                24 October 2021 16: 15
                In general, we talked about delivering a preemptive strike on the territory of the Russian Federation, and not about throwing SCADs into Europe.

                And with regards to "nothing", study the materiel.
                1. -1
                  25 October 2021 20: 25
                  We talked about delivering a preemptive strike on the territory of the Russian Federation - This blow of a raving mare, its effectiveness will be at a very low level, especially against command posts, the location of which is not known to anyone now and silo launchers that - YARS can withstand a blow with a capacity of 2 megatons - on tridents the maximum the warhead power is 500 kt - W87 W88 and the minimum W 76 is 100 kt - they will not do the same for mines and command posts - and in no way will cancel the main law of nuclear deterrence - "Whoever fires first will die second ". So I do not need to teach materiel, but to someone else so as not to write nonsense
                  And at the expense of air defense, NATO and the United States have nothing more common than the Patriot RAC 3 air defense system, and THAAD and SM 3 missiles - Aegis, almost all are located on US ships and US territory.
                  1. -1
                    25 October 2021 20: 45
                    I have no words. Only emotions.
                    1. 0
                      27 October 2021 22: 51
                      With you, write nonsense with reality, not connected - especially with a disarming strike that will somehow incredibly knock out 100% of our nuclear potential - yes, even if 10% remains for the attacking side, the cap will come - that's why this disarming blow is meaningless crap that does not affect anything. And don't make the public your own parallel fictional universes anymore.
      2. +1
        24 October 2021 09: 24
        In principle, it is not decided where it will leak. And most likely it will pour out in a stream. In the world of cash, this is inevitable. Sell the secret? Not anything personal, business. Even the DPRK will not be able to provide such secrecy, with their super-closed society.
        Yes ... we do not need aircraft carriers, they have no tasks.
  23. +1
    22 October 2021 10: 49
    For the author of the article, the question is - does he remember how hard it was for the USSR to liquidate the Chernobyl accident? How many areas were contaminated outside the station just by rains? Let me remind you that even the Leningrad region has foci of radiation contamination after that accident. Now let's count how many nuclear power plants does the United States have? Let me remind you that there are more than 100 objects. Even if thirty warheads fly from us to a nuclear power plant, will the US population and economy be able to handle so many accidents? Will the population put up with the huge succession of rain-contaminated territories? Apparently this hell and Putin promised the West? Also, no one has canceled the burning of the ozone layer with the local detonation of many nuclear devices. No one canceled the suicidal destruction of the planet by massive detonation of nuclear shells at tectonically unstable points on the planet. Russia on its territory can arrange such a radiation ecological catastrophe that the entire globe will become unsuitable for human habitation. Why does no one calculate the suicidal detonation of all atomic, nuclear charges on the territory of Russia? Will he really live in such a world? The President has repeatedly noted that he cannot see this world without Russia. Accordingly, if we are destroyed as a state, then it is possible to destroy this world simply by destroying our territory. A war without winners ...
    1. +2
      22 October 2021 13: 06
      Let me remind you that there are more than 100 objects. Even if thirty warheads fly from us to a nuclear power plant


      In our case, with the described option, God forbid that at least something flew.
      What makes you think that all this will fly to the nuclear power plant?
      Oh, you just like to believe it ... Okay then.
      1. -1
        22 October 2021 19: 28
        And why should it not fly - by the way, in terms of the accident rate of test launches of ICBMs, the US is ahead.
      2. +2
        23 October 2021 01: 27
        You have not described an option, but ideally sterile conditions under which everything will go exactly as you drew. Otherwise it will not work. Because not everything is so simple in this world, this is not a movie.
        Now another megacrisis, energy and economic, is unfolding. It is difficult to imagine what its consequences will be. One thing is clear, we are all going to be robbed again through inflation. And no war will be needed.
        1. -1
          23 October 2021 18: 21
          There is no energy crisis in Russia.
          1. +1
            24 October 2021 01: 59
            There is no energy crisis in Russia.

            The energy crisis will be the beginning of the economic crisis. Now hundreds and hundreds of enterprises around the world will fall from the fact that they will not be able to pay such a price for resources - their production will not be profitable, and somewhere there will be no energy carriers at all for organizing production. The chain of stopping enterprises will create a shortage of goods, rise in prices, inflation, and then a drop in demand for resources, since enterprises are standing still. This chain, if it is not broken in a short time in any way, then by the spring it will not be fun.
            1. -3
              24 October 2021 15: 35
              "The energy crisis will be the beginning of the economic crisis. Now hundreds and hundreds of enterprises around the world will fall from the fact that they cannot pay such a price for resources, their production will become unprofitable, and somewhere there will be no energy carriers at all for organizing production." They will burst - and we will have one competitor left, another has left, and there will be no shortage of production capacity, there will be demand, and Russia has supply in this regard, both raw materials and energy, and its own equipment for production appears.
              1. 0
                25 October 2021 00: 22
                The raw materials are there, the energy is there, everything else, including skilled workers, is absent. Some managers, buy and sell. And where are you the equipment of our production, for a hundred
                percent of our, have you seen?
                1. 0
                  25 October 2021 20: 28
                  They are present in all spheres - it will simply be necessary to raise their qualifications, but this is not a problem. Some managers, buy and sell. And where are you the equipment of our production, for a hundred
                  percent of our, have you seen? Imagine create, produce and sell.
                  1. -1
                    26 October 2021 20: 40
                    Lie. Any product has an imported component. Anyone, no exceptions.
                    And the lack of workers clearly demonstrates the dominance of migrants.
                    1. 0
                      27 October 2021 22: 53
                      At my migrant enterprises, there is not a single one, and yes, completely Russian products have the same ultrasonic baths for parts that I recently purchased.
                      1. 0
                        28 October 2021 07: 56
                        I have already read your fairy tales, before. Not interesting, science fiction is better. Closer to reality. I don’t want to wear your rose-colored glasses.
              2. +1
                25 October 2021 10: 24
                They will burst - and we will have them

                You cannot build a plant for the production of fertilizers or gas chemistry in one day, there is a cycle of five six years, who will invest in it from our moneybags, not seeing how it will be in this time? And now they are conscientiously exploiting what they got by right of the first at the trough, well, they support a little, modernize. He even refineries with what difficulty the state forced to switch to the production of high-quality gasoline, as they resisted, did not want to spend money on modernization.
                1. 0
                  25 October 2021 20: 31
                  There are a lot of new ones, including large enterprises - and who resisted there, I don't know most of the refineries have been modernized and new mini refineries are being built.
    2. 0
      23 October 2021 17: 00
      "Why does no one calculate the suicidal detonation of all atomic, nuclear charges on the territory of Russia?" Yes, please count and share your calculations. What to eat, how to detonate (ground / air), where territorially, an estimate of the volume of emissions, where will it reach, how will it affect?
  24. +1
    22 October 2021 11: 21
    I remember the Stalin era. Then, all hypothetical plans of enemies aimed at the military defeat of the USSR were assessed in the same way as the overwhelming majority of users do now. How it ended and could have ended then, and to this day, not many people understand. It's a pity...
  25. +5
    22 October 2021 11: 26
    hi
    As the saying goes, stability is a sign of mastery:
    "15 November 2018 23:08
    "The author has a very strange way of writing articles.
    The first half of the text is trash, fumes, altistoria.
    The second half of the text, when it comes to hardware, is a relatively realistic overview of the situation. "
    Yes, by the way, as if 2 different people are writing! Overall, though, the article is good. "

    On the pieces of iron - that the most logical hit with SSBN and "finishing off" by invisible ones - is obvious.
    The author's assumption is not obvious that the US nuclear weapons are on the verge of collapse, and by the 30s the entire US collapsed: the dollar, unemployment and other horrors of capitalism.
    So the "initial data", IMHO, is much worse than in the article.

    For the reasons of the war with the Russian Federation, there is no need to look for logic where it does not exist.
    It is possible because we are soaring in the wunderwaffe and, as the author noted, we obviously become weaker, even where we might not have been.
    The cost of war with us is falling all the time. And mainly European countries will pay it.
    Why do we need a war with the Russian Federation? Why war in Libya, Syria or Iraq? As a result of such wars, it is obvious that they are clearly not for "democracies and human rights" and not for those who hope "to drink Bavarian beer if the shooting is worse."
    Unfortunately, as Porthos said, "I fight because I fight."

    It is very good that the author explains that war is not only possible, but in some cases inevitable. Especially if they are preparing for it slipshod, under the motto "there will be no war, the main thing is parades."
    Perhaps, indeed, it will begin to realize that our problem may be not only the "peaceful landing" of the Japanese on the Kuriles (or the same story, but under the Ukrainian flag in Crimea), but also the "peaceful, democratic" Trident in Moscow.
    1. +2
      22 October 2021 13: 07
      It is not obvious that the author's assumption that US nuclear weapons are on the verge of collapse


      This is not my guess, this is the GAO's guess. Read carefully.
      OU and the rest like that ...
      1. +2
        22 October 2021 13: 48
        We read the GAO slightly differently.
        I'll unsubscribe at the weekend.
  26. 0
    22 October 2021 12: 01
    If now everything is bad with us, America still has norms, but it is observed (allegedly) that it will be worse, and China, which they want to overthrow, has a fleet growing by leaps and bounds, why not strike right now?
    Why would the Americans wait until China sows new "fields" for nuclear missiles, increases their arsenals, and, of course, "bakes" a fleet sufficient to attack America, at least on the defensive?
    Do Americans know that the author wrote them off, in 2035, for example?
  27. +3
    22 October 2021 12: 09
    PS, America already now, cannot dictate its terms, even to North Korea, but can only try, agree on its own terms, in which they give up. How, in the 30s, America will dictate the terms of surrender to China, which now bypasses small North Korea in all respects dozens of times? And why should they fight with an equal, in terms of nuclear potential, Russia, which is not the fact that it will fit in with China, or wait until China completes the fleet, saturates the Armed Forces with nuclear weapons and carriers?
    America was able to dismantle the USSR much cheaper, easier and without risks, decomposing it from the inside, without resorting to nuclear weapons. And looking at their actions, they bomb all sorts of bandustans all over the world. With larger countries, and stronger in terms of the army, the conversation is different.
    1. +1
      22 October 2021 13: 07
      They are trying to disintegrate the Russian Federation without war, like the USSR, but what will happen when this does not work out?
      1. +1
        23 October 2021 09: 45
        So far they are quite successful.
  28. +1
    22 October 2021 12: 28
    The scenario of the apocalypse, but it is for it that you need to prepare. And we don't have a fleet. Because the concept of land reigns supreme in our heads. And as a consequence, there is no need for a powerful surface fleet.
    1. -1
      22 October 2021 19: 34
      The US Navy will not fight with ours on the seas and oceans - why does it need it for suicide, they need it to fight other weak opponents, which the United States has repeatedly shown throughout the 20th century and the beginning of the 21st. Yes, and the Russian fleet will not fight them for the same reason and because, unlike the United States, we do not have so many naval bases around the world.
      1. +2
        22 October 2021 20: 59
        What do you think, and how will they cover their nuclear submarines? The author of the article clearly showed their likely deployment locations. The question is, what is the probability of the scenario described in the article. But in any case, you need to be ready for it.
        1. -3
          23 October 2021 18: 28
          Yes, there is no probability - because it is meaningless even if, with the most fantastic option that 50% of our Strategic Missile Forces will be destroyed, the remaining ones will be enough to destroy the enemy and the lower the ICBMs fly - the easier it will be to shoot them down 500kis already in service until 2030 in European Russia. there will be at least 20 regiments, and C 300B4s continue to be purchased as well as new radars.
          1. 0
            24 October 2021 20: 03
            You cannot rely only on five hundred square meters, three juices and other hundred parts. Of course, this is an excellent weapon, but this is the "last argument of kings" and you cannot rely only on it, as the main argument. It is easier to take control of the patrolling sites of enemy nuclear submarines and push them out of there. This, in turn, will increase the decision-making time, which is what we need.
            1. -1
              25 October 2021 20: 44
              You have seen the area of ​​the world's oceans - this is how many boats need to be built 200 or 500 so that it is pointless to patrol everything there and the budget will not pull - and the US submarines can just as calmly shoot from their pier without risking an expensive and so necessary in the post-apocalyptic world technology like nuclear submarines. I am leaning towards the creation of a national missile defense system that can hit ICBMs at a distance of 3000 kilometers was such a project of the missile defense system Outfit satellite constellation ground air and underwater - Satellites with IR cameras and radar silo-based ground missiles with interceptors aircraft with interceptor missiles transport aircraft on the air launch system and the sea converted old SSBNs for missile launchers - ground-based over-the-horizon radars linked to the early warning missile systems.
          2. 0
            25 October 2021 13: 57
            Tell me what 500ka is and where it is in service.
            For one, explain what it means
            Quote: Vadim237
            the lower ICBMs fly

            why?????
            Where does the data about 20 regiments come from?
            1. 0
              25 October 2021 20: 47
              SAM S 500 - the author of the ICBM moves along a flat trajectory. Where are the data about 20 regiments of the Ministry of Defense is preparing a contract with Almaz Antey for the supply of air defense systems.
              1. -1
                26 October 2021 01: 29
                Those. you have invented about 20 regiments.
                You should figure out what the S-500 is, what is the difference between a division and a regiment, sometimes 20 divisions, sometimes 20 regiments. Start small.
                1. 0
                  27 October 2021 22: 56
                  I didn’t invent anything for a contract for 20 regiments - and I don’t need to figure out what the C 500 is like any of the Almaz Antey’s allies - it’s better not to ask you stupid questions.
                  1. 0
                    28 October 2021 02: 11
                    Expected.
                    You do not know and switched to insults.
                    They lied about 20 shelves
                    You don't know how a regiment differs from a battalion
                    What is the S-500, the same you do not know
      2. -1
        25 October 2021 13: 53
        About how we have an oceanic fleet. Well, tada oh.
  29. -1
    22 October 2021 12: 53
    Why the name "World War"? After all, all the forces of the main ten nuclear powers are concentrated on the Eurasian continent, and those who are interested in this war will most likely plan it there. Isn't that why NATO is pulling its troops there?
  30. -2
    22 October 2021 12: 57
    to be treated, to be treated and once again - to be treated!
    By 2030, the United States will remain a powerful, wealthy power with a high standard of living, a diversified economy, starting to master the 7th technological order, and a large number of allies
    Author, do not be offended! But you - very poorly know America in particular, and the West in general.
    This is a completely different mentality today compared to the 80s. There is no need for the apocalypse.
    Those. I understand that living with revanchism in Russia is, in general, just ...
    1. +4
      22 October 2021 13: 25
      They also eat rainbows and poop butterflies.
      1. -1
        22 October 2021 14: 39
        I put you +, you are a good person! Only war is not the worst
    2. -1
      22 October 2021 14: 59
      Alexander, tell me, what is the 7th order? now they seem to be just getting ready to move on to the 6th.
      1. -4
        22 October 2021 19: 28
        Now no one can formulate this more or less precisely.
        In a narrow, so to speak, applied sense, it is the management of everything that surrounds you (all, so to speak, gadgets, cars, mechanisms) directly by thought. Those. experiments have been conducted for a long time and even with some result, but here everything is more complicated. The 7th order is not just mastering the technology of controlling something, reading the biocurrents of the brain, it is a kind of symbiosis of man and machine.
        Those. almost instantaneous - without the mediation of the body (buttons, pens, speech commands, etc.) - the execution of ... what? - something you want.
        Some talk in general about designing "new people" with new properties.

        According to Timokhin, the Americans are already on the way to this - pooping with butterflies is exactly the 7th ...
  31. -4
    22 October 2021 13: 04
    Is the author prepared for the war?
    Have you already served in the army since the moment of writing the previous article?
    Have you mastered the actual VUS in a real way?
    1. -1
      22 October 2021 13: 41
      What would you say if I took, uncovered the beadwork and nevertheless condescended to answer?

      What piles will fall out of you next?
      1. +2
        22 October 2021 14: 07
        The question is quite natural. Anyone can try to get off the couch, but steadily mastering military skills and abilities on the eve of the decisive battle is completely different, moreover, according to your own logic, it is absolutely necessary.

        Why are you so bombarded?

        Well, this is just an ordinary article on the military-isotmatics.

        uncovered the bead gun

        You didn’t have it and you don’t have it. Why flatter yourself?

        Especially funny is your ability to read documents and see what is not even in principle

        The conclusions are simply devastating - the United States is practically on the verge of losing its nuclear status.

        There are no such conclusions in the GAO report. Why invent?

        The GAO report does not record a single difficulty that could be called insurmountable. It is noted that the problems are extensive and varied, and the risks are high and the possibilities for their mitigation have not been sufficiently developed. How else? Moreover, the risks themselves are, first of all, the risks of failure to meet the deadline and increase in cost. Nothing out of the ordinary.
        The highlights page of the report is laid out separately, everyone can see
        https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-21-210-highlights.pdf

        and the prospects for the new Columbia are more than vague.

        These are your fantasies
        Problems are stated on pages 34-36
        immature technologies.
        design challenges.
        production quality challenges
        Aggressive production schedule.
        All problems are disclosed in detail. It's OK.
        None of them are named critical. These are common problems with any new system.

        The rest is too lazy to disassemble.
        1. 0
          22 October 2021 16: 27
          immature technologies.
          design challenges.
          production quality challenges


          That is, this is the F-35, which still has nowhere to build. You simply did not delve into what you have read, and have no idea what it will cost to eliminate these problems over the next few years.
          1. +3
            22 October 2021 17: 09
            Nobody knows what it will cost. The report allows us to say that the problems are diverse. It is absolutely impossible to judge the depth of the problems. It would be strange if it was different
            That is, this is the F-35, which still has nowhere to build.

            It is much more complex than the F-35. There will be shifts to the right and excess value. But it doesn't follow from anywhere that the problems are critical.
            nowhere to build

            As usual, you twist
            We reported in June 2020 that
            some critical technologies remain immature. 51 Our work on
            shipbuilding best practices has found that proceeds into detail
            design and construction with immature technologies can lead to
            design instability, delays, and cost growth

            And further
            d. Going forward, the shipbuilder anticipates having to rely on
            some suppliers that will need improvement to meet quality
            expectations. The shipbuilder also identified specific products and
            processes that continue to present quality risks for the supplier base.
            Ongoing delays resulting from the additional time needed to repair or
            replace deficient materials highlight the risk that persistent quality
            problems that could affect the program's schedule and the timely
            delivery of the lead submarine.

            Where is there nowhere to build?

            And the ending. According to the report, the head Columbia will enter service in 2031. According to the plan. Minutemans are supported until 2030 and are removed from service (with replacement) in 2036. Replacement of minimens will also start to come according to plan in 30th year. This means that the 30s will be the most difficult transition period for the Americans, when the old components of the triad are hardly kept in service with a corresponding decrease in potential, and new models are just entering service with inevitable delays, childhood illnesses and still have to be mastered. No one will start a war under such conditions. If America wants to do away with us, it must do so now, capitalizing on technical superiority as much as possible and combining proven systems and high-tech. But somehow in no hurry
            1. 0
              26 October 2021 02: 35
              We reported in June 2020 that
              some critical technologies remain immature


              Do you understand the meaning of this passage? Well, read on, about the warheads themselves.
  32. -13
    22 October 2021 13: 08
    Today Russia has the strongest army in the world, and the war is objectively beneficial to us, because we are the only ones in the world ready for it. In 10 years we will become even stronger. Hence, such a hysteria among the Indians
    1. +9
      22 October 2021 13: 56
      Quote: Imperial Technocrat
      Today Russia has the strongest army in the world,

      DO NOT!
      Not in the world, but in the universe!
      1. +3
        22 October 2021 15: 29
        "And there is also a construction battalion in Russia (now this special forces unit is disguised as a railway). These are generally animals, they are not even given machine guns." laughing
        1. +1
          22 October 2021 19: 37
          "Gastroibat" appeared in Russia, it is an additional powerful force capable of competing with Stroybat.
    2. -1
      22 October 2021 19: 36
      That is what Russia is like, such a war, like everyone else, is not profitable in any way, and it will never be profitable from the word.
    3. -2
      22 October 2021 23: 44
      Quote: Imperial Technocrat
      Hence such a hysteria among the Indians

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCwhYWO7rhA
  33. +5
    22 October 2021 13: 10
    TL; DR is for the lazy. Timokhin is pulling the blanket of the budget for the fleet, no matter what. Writes well as always.

    Give money to the fleet urgently. Around the fifth paragraph, I already understood this, and I understood who the author was. And can you show on your fingers how many modestly you did not mention warheads in the Altai, Irkutsk, Uzhur and Novosibirsk divisions? Burn, draw arrows from the Ob Bay with a flight time of seven minutes.
    In the situation that you describe, Russia urgently needs to increase the number of ballistic missiles in western Siberia. It is much easier to protect them, but more difficult to hit. Plus, increase the performance of the Perimeter.
    Spending money on the fleet in this situation is a crime. The joint NATO fleet is orders of magnitude larger than the Russian one. Plus the Russian Navy is torn apart in a theater of operations. To really oppose the launch of Ohio from the Norwegian Sea by the forces of the fleet, it is necessary to resolve the issue of coastal aviation based in Norway. And even the US Navy will not be able to overcome this opposition.
    Russian SSBNs will be able to shoot in full volley in the Kola Bay and Shelekhov Bay, no more is required of them, and then they can be covered from the shore. And defend the position with minefields.

    Well, yes, secretly withdraw all cash SSBNs to positions, there too !!! secretly !!! move everything on the move (afloat) for cover, !!! secretly !!! start evacuation measures for the population and the government, mobilize and requisition the necessary resources.
    Trying not to make noise, a company of Estonian scouts sneaked to the enemy's headquarters. The inhabitants of all the surrounding villages came to see this.
    1. +1
      22 October 2021 16: 29

      Give money to the fleet urgently. Around the fifth paragraph, I already understood this, and I understood who the author was. And can you show on your fingers how many modestly you did not mention warheads in the Altai, Irkutsk, Uzhur and Novosibirsk divisions? Burn, draw arrows from the Ob Bay with a flight time of seven minutes.


      Take an interest in how the curvature of the earth affects the time of detection of a missile launch from the Gulf of Alaska by the eastern radar of the early warning system and WONDER.
      1. +1
        23 October 2021 08: 39
        So, instead of doing the obvious - to increase the security of decision-making centers in the Russian Federation, do you propose to create a fleet that can prevent the launch of American SSBNs from the Mediterranean and Norwegian Seas? With the opposition of the US Navy.

        Describe the outfit of strength required for this. And its cost. Cherry on the cake, the time of construction and the achievement of combat readiness.
        1. -2
          23 October 2021 18: 42
          It is possible to create a means against such launches - missile defense missiles with a range of 3000 kilometers and heights of destruction of more than 1000 kilometers - to place them across all border territories of Russia in the European part of the Arctic in the Far East, a kind of national layered missile defense system, which, in addition to the described one, will include С 500 and С 300В4 as well as A 235 - any missile in their affected area will be shot down at the launch stage.
          1. Aag
            -1
            24 October 2021 19: 16
            Quote: Vadim237
            It is possible to create a means against such launches - missile defense missiles with a range of 3000 kilometers and heights of destruction of more than 1000 kilometers - to place them across all border territories of Russia in the European part of the Arctic in the Far East, a kind of national layered missile defense system, which, in addition to the described one, will include С 500 and С 300В4 as well as A 235 - any missile in their affected area will be shot down at the launch stage.

            ... Maybe first we will build a replacement for "Corn", huh? ...
            1. -2
              25 October 2021 20: 51
              Already built, it will pass tests and go into production, but I'm more than sure you won't buy it, and the fuck you need it.
              1. Aag
                -1
                26 October 2021 05: 42
                Quote: Vadim237
                Already built, it will pass tests and go into production, but I'm more than sure you won't buy it, and the fuck you need it.

                A lot! Have you talked a lot?))) ...
                And you put forward air defense projects (with fantastic characteristics, in incredible quantities) ... Yes, so actively that there is not enough time for punctuation ...
                1. -2
                  27 October 2021 23: 00
                  Apparently, you don't know how to read - written in Russian for the gifted, the replacement of the An 2 built will pass the tests and go into the series. "And you are putting forward air defense projects (with fantastic characteristics, in incredible quantities) .." There is only one "Project" here, and that is you.
    2. -2
      22 October 2021 23: 27
      Quote: demiurg
      TL; DR is for the lazy. Timokhin is pulling the blanket of the budget for the fleet, no matter what. Writes well as always.

      Give money to the fleet urgently. Around the fifth paragraph, I already understood this, and I understood who the author was.

      unfortunately, not for the fleet, but for the aircraft carrier, he wants (see the second unpublished part of the article) ..., this last leader of the dying sect of aircraft carriers, in his herd there were only narrow-minded, unable to connect more than two words, but all the time hating anyone who is smarter than them, already confusing gsh with the Kremlin and Napoleon ... who already perceive me as a super-degree force ..... now they will again climb out and start spitting out their poison in a crowd of saliva, stupidly silently minus and demonstrate their primitiveness with kindergarten callouts. ..
      Without God, a nation is a crowd
      United by vice
      Or blind, or stupid,
      Or what is even more terrible, cruel.

      And let any one rise to the throne
      Verbally high syllable.
      The crowd will remain a crowd
      Until he turns to God!
      - Hieromonk Roman Matyushin
      1. +1
        23 October 2021 21: 55
        Quote: vladimir1155
        Without God, a nation is a crowd
        United by vice
        Or blind, or stupid,
        Or what is even more terrible, cruel.

        And let any one rise to the throne
        Verbally high syllable.
        The crowd will remain a crowd
        Until he turns to God!
        Rhymed nonsense. See USSR: the result is a society, not a crowd.
        1. -4
          23 October 2021 22: 37
          Quote: bk0010
          USSR: it worked

          what happened ?, where did it go? why did it collapse?
          1. +1
            23 October 2021 22: 39
            Quote: vladimir1155
            what happened ?, where did it go? why did it collapse?
            But as in 1989 he turned to God (the millennium of baptism), and collapsed. And before that, he held half of the world.
            1. -4
              24 October 2021 00: 01
              since 1972 as they turned away from God and rolled down the slope
              1. +1
                24 October 2021 00: 02
                Quote: vladimir1155
                since 1972 as they turned away from God and rolled down the slope
                What did you have in 1972?
    3. Aag
      0
      24 October 2021 19: 25
      Quote: demiurg
      TL; DR is for the lazy. Timokhin is pulling the blanket of the budget for the fleet, no matter what. Writes well as always.

      Give money to the fleet urgently. Around the fifth paragraph, I already understood this, and I understood who the author was. And can you show on your fingers how many modestly you did not mention warheads in the Altai, Irkutsk, Uzhur and Novosibirsk divisions? Burn, draw arrows from the Ob Bay with a flight time of seven minutes.
      In the situation that you describe, Russia urgently needs to increase the number of ballistic missiles in western Siberia. It is much easier to protect them, but more difficult to hit. Plus, increase the performance of the Perimeter.
      Spending money on the fleet in this situation is a crime. The joint NATO fleet is orders of magnitude larger than the Russian one. Plus the Russian Navy is torn apart in a theater of operations. To really oppose the launch of Ohio from the Norwegian Sea by the forces of the fleet, it is necessary to resolve the issue of coastal aviation based in Norway. And even the US Navy will not be able to overcome this opposition.
      Russian SSBNs will be able to shoot in full volley in the Kola Bay and Shelekhov Bay, no more is required of them, and then they can be covered from the shore. And defend the position with minefields.

      Well, yes, secretly withdraw all cash SSBNs to positions, there too !!! secretly !!! move everything on the move (afloat) for cover, !!! secretly !!! start evacuation measures for the population and the government, mobilize and requisition the necessary resources.
      Trying not to make noise, a company of Estonian scouts sneaked to the enemy's headquarters. The inhabitants of all the surrounding villages came to see this.

      Thank you! hi Relieved of an irresistible desire to respond to the Author - the arguments would coincide closely to the text. About a blanket, Western Siberia (greetings from veterans of the 29rd) - almost literally ...
  34. -6
    22 October 2021 13: 24
    The article of the boy who is not clear what offended.
    The theses about the mindless government of Russia are striking in their ignorance about the real state of affairs in our country and about its administrative strength.
    Everything else after such a preface can be multiplied by zero. All calculations, possible developments and results will be incorrect, because the author is stuck in his grievances against the state and the leaders of the state.
    1. +2
      22 October 2021 14: 02
      Quote: Dimon Krasnodar
      The theses about the mindless government of Russia are striking in their ignorance about the real state of affairs in our country and about its administrative strength.

      I would like to learn more about "managerial power".
      This government, for the most part, lasts all the time when the president is in power. Tell me, what has been done in the country that you could be proud of, what you would like to fight for, what you would like to defend? I do not mean bridges-toll roads-Krasnaya Polyana, but the healthcare system, social protection, carefree childhood and dignified old age.
    2. AML
      0
      22 October 2021 14: 10
      Oh, yes, you are paying attention to this. VO is over. Look at how the editorial staff downloads. An article comes out about how bad everything is and we will all die. In a couple of days, an article comes out that all the ZBS and everyone else will die. It doesn't smell like analytics. Look, I got 3 minuses for 20 comments, but not a single comment. Do you know why? Because there is nothing to object. For they know that there is no lie. Well, the author needs to take a physics textbook and think on the toilet about high-altitude phenomena and the propagation of radio waves during this period. Then maybe he will finally make certain conclusions for himself. Well, at least he can think about the basis on which the navigation will take place. GPS? Local map? Funny.

      Well, those who are raving about rushing because the radioactive desert will remain are really raving. Even after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, life did not end, and modern Yao is much more effective.
  35. 0
    22 October 2021 13: 46
    Building a fleet capable of competing with the American one is an overwhelming task for this period.
    Only a number of the most important measures need to be implemented at sea. For example, to create a reliable defense perimeter in the Arctic A2AD, to restore the MPA, MPLA.
    But much more needs to be done on land. Offhand:
    - development of tactical nuclear forces, MRBM against neighbors hostile to Russia
    - an increase in the number of deployed charges
    - mobile camouflaged complexes
    1. +3
      22 October 2021 13: 59
      Building a fleet that can compete with the American is an overwhelming task for this period.

      So the author did not suggest this. The adequate answer of the US Navy is that it is not an equivalent fleet in terms of the number of pennants, it is a much more complex system. True, it is technologically simpler, but economically more efficient. For example, the reconstruction of a full-fledged anti-submarine aviation, the construction of adequate anti-mine forces. There is a lot more. After all, the goal is not to defeat the Yusovites at sea, but to prevent their nuclear strike.

      And, by the way, we cannot increase the number of deployed charges, since there is a START-3 treaty. Rather, we can, but insignificantly. We have already deployed them almost to the maximum.
  36. +5
    22 October 2021 14: 12
    If it were that simple, the Americans would have attacked Russia a long time ago. But they did not do this in the 50s of the XX century, did not do it in the 90s, and do not do it now. Their tactics are different. They have created many pseudo-states around Russia, territories not controlled by Russia, which can be compared to open bleeding wounds or leaks stuck to the body of Russia. They bleed it, distract many resources, both material and human, to protect against them and counteract them. The United States, however, is surrounded by generally friendly countries, washed by oceans on both sides and is insured against what they have in store for our country, even if Russia revives the oceanic fleet and builds many ships of the class of aircraft-carrying cruisers and submarine missile carriers. Thus, the Americans do not even need to waste nuclear warheads, all the more so to reclaim the earth after radioactive contamination, to heal or bury people after exposure to penetrating radiation and other consequences of the atomic bombing. The United States can simply wait. Probably, the turn of the 30s of the XXI century will be the time criterion when it becomes clear whether the world capitalists have chosen the right tactics towards Russia, or the people of Russia will find the strength to resist threats from the closest "blood-sucking neighbors" and emerge victorious from this confrontation. ... But victories are not given just like that. Victories are achieved by the unity of the goal and the struggle to achieve it.
    1. 0
      23 October 2021 21: 40
      In 1991, a powerful blow was struck, destroying THAT enemy in the person of the hated socialist state. The remaining core of Russian civilization was not considered a serious enemy at that time, especially since power passed to open collaborators. And the United States was digesting what it received, actively siphoning resources. In 2001, a new era in development began - the performance 9/11, reformatting the whole world, and putting forward the goals of globalization and the transition from national states to supranational governance. However, it was not yet up to them, in 2007-2010 there was a riot of those looking behind the barracks, who realized that they were not equal THERE, and they would not be accepted there as equals. The new course outlined the capo with his Munich keynote speech. Well, revenge was hidden. This resulted in an undoubted increase in interest in their own army, pumping it up with what was left of the military-industrial complex and, as an apotheosis, in eating cheese in a mousetrap. At the same time, controllability was not lost and Buchgalter's visit successfully put an end to this revolt. And the capo on cyrlach immediately did everything that was wanted of him - he acted as a scarecrow / concentrator for the crystallization of a truly new country, which embodied the age-old dream of the West about the destruction of Russian civilization, and which needed just for this role an "enemy image" was successfully created.
      Without eating cheese and rolling back after an undoubted and very powerful military victory, the West would not have succeeded. But the faithful capo did not disappoint. He did everything to create existentially hostile statehood. Well, now, when the NATO General Security has officially announced that this "state" will not be washed by skating, but will end up in NATO, the flight time is reduced to 4 minutes
  37. +3
    22 October 2021 14: 34
    For many Russians, history teaches nothing. This can be seen from the comments to the article: For many Russians, history teaches nothing. This can be seen in the comments to the article. Where does such blind faith in the power of our army, air defense, aviation, Strategic Missile Forces and others come from? Maybe someone else believes in the existence of a combat-ready system of civil defense and emergency situations in our country? This is what I have no doubt about because it is the absolute venality of our leaders, from the level of the most seedy village to the capital. And somehow it is hard to believe that in the army everything is the other way around and that patriots and holy people in general are in command. Our main warriors-defenders in the upcoming massacre are young people, who are now from 10 to 30 years old. These are those who in the 90s dreamed en masse to go you know who to work, and a little later to managers, bloggers and other artists. They live in a virtual world and their homeland is where the buns are tastier. And this will be at war with the Democrats to the last patron? Moreover, under the guidance of those who have egg-boxes abroad and a lot of tasty things, and children and relatives there? I don't even want to think about the technical aspects.
    1. 0
      22 October 2021 19: 49
      Here you do not need to believe, here you need to know the exact direction of technology, as well as scientific and technological progress, but if you do not believe, this is the church, please. "Our main warriors are defenders in the upcoming massacre." There will not be any slaughter, and yes future wars will be remote and robotic, cannon fodder will go into the background there, or even this will disappear altogether because it is unnecessary. And yes, the most important rule from the last century for nuclear powers continues to work - "Whoever shoots first dies second." And the article is a pure fantastic rush about a sudden disarming strike on our Strategic Missile Forces
      generally nonsense.
  38. -3
    22 October 2021 14: 51
    Alexander, you should write books from the series "Unscientific fiction"
  39. -1
    22 October 2021 15: 40
    Quote: Artyom Karagodin
    we cannot increase the number of deployed charges, since there is a START-3 treaty

    I meant of course the RIAC
    1. +1
      22 October 2021 23: 42
      Until they appear in Europe, they will not appear in our country either. This was clearly stated. But if ... Well, you can guess a lot. In the meantime, we proceed from the realities of today.
      1. 0
        23 October 2021 01: 01
        As for the fleet, the author has not yet written for this at all, the announcement is in the next part.

        By the way, but the question is - are there any Tridents to replace? So that the nuclear submarine could "go to the base for missiles"?
        1. 0
          23 October 2021 01: 44
          By the way, but the question is - are there any Tridents to replace?

          In theory, they should not be. Yet START-3 is in effect and there can be no excess. This is controlled.
          1. 0
            23 October 2021 11: 23
            Here. To implement such a scenario, they will need to withdraw from START III.
  40. Eug
    +2
    22 October 2021 15: 54
    Are there modifications of ballistic missiles to implement flat trajectories? As far as I know, one of the most important problems in launching and calculating the trajectory of a ballistic missile was and is the reduction of forces to the vertical, its necessity imposes restrictions on lateral control. With flat trajectories, transverse overloads occur, which will simply break the thin-walled body, especially since there are not sickly speeds ... as for me - nonsense.
    1. +1
      22 October 2021 17: 43
      Read the article on the link.
      1. Eug
        +2
        23 October 2021 09: 09
        Was reading. But apart from ASSUMPTIONS (in other words, highlighted likely) and the most general formulas, I did not see anything there. The proof for me is the TRANSVERSE table (the article is more and more about axial, i.e. LONGITUDINAL overload) overloads depending on the flight speed, angular speed and altitude of the programmed turn. And it is necessary to compare the overload values ​​from this table with the one that the Tridents can tolerate painlessly. For me, the article is unconvincing.
  41. 0
    22 October 2021 16: 09
    Before that, the Americans simply blew up those regions from the inside that could become not exporters of energy and resources, but their consumers, preserving the situation of oil rigs there, surrounded by machine guns, and literally naked locals who cannot claim this energy.

    These are the regions that the "Americans blew up" - the UAE? Saudi Arabia? Canada?
    Let's reveal one little secret. Resource super-well-being of the so-called The "oil monarchies of the Persian Gulf" has exactly one foundation - the number of barrels of oil produced per day per person. In Kuwait, this figure is 721, in Qatar - 500, in the UAE - 335, in Saudi Arabia - 324. In Norway, for example, the number of barrels of oil per day per person is also 313.
    For comparison. In Iraq, the number of produced barrels of oil per person per day is 119, in Canada - 100, in Russia - 73-74, in the USA - 35, in Nigeria - 10,7-11.
    That is, speaking quite simply - to live as richly as in Qatar or the United Arab Emirates due to oil exports, the same Nigeria cannot, not because "the evil American government takes all the oil revenues for itself," but because these same super profits are simply not there. Not at all.
    A ballistic missile can fly not only along a ballistic, but also along a so-called flat trajectory, low

    The advantage of such a launch is speed - the rocket needs to fly a much shorter distance along the combat path than when flying along a ballistic trajectory.

    If, in your words, this is so easy to implement on existing ballistic missiles, then why hasn't it been done so far? All these mental constructions look especially dubious for Trident-2 solid-fuel ballistic missiles, yes.
    in the 80s exactly after the American flight from Saigon. As it has been written more than once, Americans are almost impossible to demoralize.

    The evacuation from Saigon took place long before the 1980s. And yes, in fact, the result of the Vietnam War, which took place to be, happened precisely because North Vietnam / Viet Cong managed, through competent information and propaganda work, to demoralize the residents of the United States itself, killing them the desire and willingness to continue the war. The recipe was, in general, extremely simple and effective - the purposeful creation of an image that North Vietnam and the Viet Cong are waging a war not for the approval of Marxism-Leninism, but for the national liberation struggle, plus the deliberate "protrusion" of any cases of cruelty, atrocities and war crimes committed by the American troops in the actual suppression of similar acts committed by the troops of the NLF ("Viet Cong") (a vivid example - about the massacres of civilians in Songmi, organized in 1969 by US troops, probably everyone heard. But about the massacres of civilians in Dashkon (1967) and Hue (1968), arranged by the Viet Cong have already heard much less people).
    Will they not rot just like the Minutemans

    And why should they "rot", taking into account the repeated overhauls, maintenance and upgrades?
    1. +2
      23 October 2021 01: 53
      For comparison. In Iraq, the number of produced barrels of oil per person per day is 119, in Canada - 100, in Russia - 73-74, in the USA - 35, in Nigeria - 10,7-11.

      You obviously have a mistake in calculating barrels of oil per day per one inhabitant of the country. For example: in Russia, oil production is from 10 to 11 million barrels per day, and the population is 140 million people. It doesn’t work out 73 barrels per day for everyone.
      In 2019, Russia produced 560 million tons of oil, or 4 tons per inhabitant per year. And 4 tons x 7,28 = 29 barrels per year per person. The numbers do not converge by several orders of magnitude.
      1. 0
        25 October 2021 09: 38
        Yes, this is not mine. This figure is calculated on the left on the site where I took it from.
        However .. the principle does not change from this.
        Kuwait - 0,59 barrels of oil per person per day (in terms of oil production), Qatar - 0,55 barrels of oil per person per day, UAE - 0,32 barrels of oil per person per day, Saudi Arabia - 0,27 barrels of oil per person per day, Norway - 0,32 barrels of oil per person per day, Iraq - 0,10 barrels of oil per person per day, Canada - 0,11 barrels of oil per person per day, Russia - 0,07 barrels of oil per person in fact, the USA - 0,03 barrels of oil per person per day, Nigeria - 0,008 barrels of oil per person per day.
        That is, speaking quite simply - to live as richly as in Qatar or the United Arab Emirates due to oil exports, the same Nigeria cannot, not because "the evil American government takes all the oil revenues for itself," but because these same super profits are simply not there. Not at all.
        1. +1
          25 October 2021 10: 18
          That is, speaking quite simply - to live as richly as in Qatar or the UAE due to oil exports, the same Nigeria cannot, not because "the evil American government takes all the oil revenues for itself," but because these same super profits are simply not there. No at all

          This is unambiguous. I, too, our "patriots" sometimes surprise with such statements when they refer to the Arabs, without taking into account how many mouths to feed there and how many we have.
          1. 0
            25 October 2021 10: 53
            It's still more commonplace here. Even with an oil price of $ 100 per barrel (what it was in 2012-2013), the REVENUE from Russian oil exports (the figure for 2021 is taken) would amount to only $ 1 per person per person per year. Or $ 1304 108 cents a month. And this is exactly the proceeds - the costs of production and transportation, overhead costs, taxes (from which the state finances the same social programs), they do not disappear anywhere.
            For Iraq, for example, the same amount would already be $ 3448 per person per year or $ 287 per month.
            For Saudi Arabia - already $ 11278 per year or $ 939 per month. For Norway - $ 8 per year or $ 478 per month. Etc.
  42. 0
    22 October 2021 16: 18
    Honestly, I was waiting for cheerful articles from A. Timokhin. I am glad that the author returned to the portal with a new cycle.
    There is one remark: the thesis about the depletion of minerals with an affordable development price has no historical justification. Always with a new stage in the development of geological exploration and production technologies, surplus deposits of PI appeared, which had to be preserved. See Oil offshore Brazil, Canadian bituminous sands, shale hydrocarbons in the States, or coal in Tuva. It seems to me that this should also include the "forced restriction of consumption" of other states. These are conspiracy theories for the poor.
    1. +1
      22 October 2021 18: 47
      Google the meaning of the sneaker thing like EROEI
      1. +1
        22 October 2021 23: 27
        True, I did not know about the indicator, I googled it. Topical articles highlight the low eroei from renewable sources and bituminous sands, yes. At the same time, it is consistently high from nuclear energy and natural gas. For a long time, energy uranium was insanely cheap, and now it continues to be so due to the commissioning of new deposits. There is a feeling that the same story is with gas. With the development of technologies, deposits are discovered in the middle of the Mediterranean Sea and, in principle, the price of gas will not rise (Europe needs to relax regulation, and everything will settle down). Back in the 70s, they said that the depletion of oil reserves was close - and where are these forecasts? It seems to me that eroei as a cause of military conflict is too broad a generalization.
        1. +2
          23 October 2021 01: 46
          The fact is that this indicator for any available energy resources in the natural world has naturally fallen dramatically over the past thirty to forty years.

          And the moment when it will be necessary to spend it on the production of one joule of energy is not far off. And then what will the same USA do with their suburbs, where ALL logistics of EVERYTHING (up to schoolchildren) is based on the consumption of liquid motor fuel? Therefore, it is critically important for them to mothball the development of the rest of humanity.
          1. +1
            24 October 2021 01: 57
            They already understand what to do - switch to electric movement. And this gives a maneuver between energy sources with the choice of the optimal eroei. Moreover, the United States is in no hurry, since so far there is enough domestic oil for them.
            It's a matter of faith, I don't believe in Malthusian stories.
            1. +1
              25 October 2021 16: 39
              The question is timing. This oil is enough for them, not just, but for a while.
        2. 0
          23 October 2021 02: 04
          Back in the 70s, they said that the depletion of oil reserves was close - and where are these forecasts?

          Not many years have passed since then, and the reserves are really being depleted. One has to go further and deeper to get oil, and the price of production is growing. Now Russia produces more oil per year than it registers for new reserves. The difference is three times.
          1. -1
            23 October 2021 19: 00
            It's just that we haven't invested in reconnaissance for 15 years, and the backlog, but the process went on and the reconnaissance of rare earth metals was the same.
          2. 0
            24 October 2021 02: 05
            We have a highly regulated exploration and production sector. The United States saw an explosive growth in shale production when it gave tax breaks (emnip) to small companies. And they brought in a new technology for horizontal drilling and big data processing. And our private traders were not allowed to the shelf, the deposits are distributed among our own. Look in the world - Israel will soon be producing gas. Uranium is now being washed out, mines are no longer needed.
            1. 0
              25 October 2021 10: 27
              Look in the world - Israel will soon be producing gas. Uranium is now being washed out, mines are no longer needed.

              And what can we look at in the world - we ourselves have been producing gas for a long time, and uranium is also extracted by leaching, especially from our poor deposits.
              1. 0
                25 October 2021 20: 55
                As the Brest 300 will start working, we will do reactors on a closed fuel cycle - and the demand for uranium will drop sharply, since it will be possible to use the same fuel again and again.
                1. 0
                  26 October 2021 08: 41
                  Yes, that's exactly what I wanted to say - the Malthusian hypotheses in relation to minerals (we will get everything possible on Earth, and there will be a fight for the rest) are not confirmed by history.
                  1. 0
                    26 October 2021 10: 55
                    and for the rest there will be a fight) are not confirmed by history.

                    We live too little on Earth in the industrial age to say that this is not confirmed. How has the population grown over the past decades? Resource consumption has increased significantly. Resources are no longer enough for everyone and in abundance. The energy crisis right now is a confirmation of this. Climate change, dehydration of vast territories, these are the realities of today and changes are taking place before the eyes of one generation. They will not even have to ask my grandfather how it was when it rained and the bodies of the river.
                    1. 0
                      26 October 2021 20: 52
                      Malthus formulated his theory (that the population will grow and the land will not be able to feed everyone) in the early 19th century. Since then, the number has grown 7,5 times. The food supply has only improved. Historically, the same bullshit happens to other similar hypotheses.
                      It's a matter of faith. I do not believe.
                      1. +1
                        27 October 2021 10: 19
                        Historically, the same bullshit happens to other similar hypotheses.
                        It's a matter of faith. I do not believe.

                        It’s good if this is the case, but the acceleration of change is not for the better raises concerns, and consumption has grown to obscene proportions raises concerns for the grandchildren.
                    2. -1
                      27 October 2021 23: 02
                      Over time, mankind will extract the same rare earth metals in space billions of times more than on Earth.
                      1. 0
                        27 October 2021 23: 11
                        Over time, mankind will extract the same rare earth metals in space billions of times more than on Earth.

                        There is a vacuum in space, and we haven't really made it to the Moon from the planets. What will be the cost of mining and delivering rare earth metals to Earth? On other planets, if we get there sometime with shovels, it is worth looking for something that is not on Earth and it is very valuable. And so fantastic - one kg of "luniya" at a price of 1 billion dollars.
    2. 0
      23 October 2021 18: 58
      I am glad that the author returned to the portal with a new cycle. The author has successfully returned to fantasies about Russia being attacked and won if there is no fleet and there are no aircraft carriers on this fleet.
  43. 0
    22 October 2021 16: 18
    what nonsense. there is no medicine, pensions, work, education, army, navy, aviation. so let's discuss how we are all the stronger.
    1. +2
      22 October 2021 19: 53
      Hello to the otherworldly universe - where Russia has nothing.
  44. +4
    22 October 2021 16: 25
    I have a question ... After this scenario is implemented, the US nuclear arsenal will either be destroyed or used up. Why bring China to its knees? On the contrary, they will stand up automatically)
    1. 0
      22 October 2021 18: 48
      SSBNs are reloaded at least in the base, and if they press down, then at sea from a tender. Americans have three tenders with cranes
      1. +2
        23 October 2021 02: 06
        But what about START-3? Where do you get so many spare rockets to reload?
    2. 0
      23 October 2021 17: 51
      good question, it is true for us too. The Americans may need to contain China, but at least their neighbors are peaceful. but we have it in a circle:
      - Finland 5 million, I hope they don’t need anything and don’t remember the old
      - We will not take the Baltics, 10 million people per circle
      - Poland - 38 million Kaliningrad 0,5 million? there is still Germany near 83 million.
      - Belarusians are friends - 9 million.
      - Ukraine - 41 million
      - Turkey - 83, our Crimea - 2 million not in the best environment
      - Georgia is small, only 3,7 million, it is not clear how to assess our Caucasus.
      Kazakhstan 19 million - it's good that it is peaceful enough,
      Afghanistan 37 million, but 2 thousand kilometers to us, Tajiksitan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan - my grandmother said in two. Uzbekistan needs land for agriculture.
      - China - 1+ billion, the world is friendship chewing gum, Khabarovsk - Pain, Vladivostok - Haishenwei, Sakhalin - Kuedao
      - Japan 125 million
      And China in the Azat-Pacific region has not quite friendly relations with Japan, Vietnam, the Philippines, and Malaysia, which are one hundred million. South Korea with a population of 50 million and North Korea with 25 million has its own history. In general, the Chinese still need to get to America, they have enough of their problems at hand, they cannot be divided.
  45. +1
    22 October 2021 17: 19
    What nonsense! If an exchange of nuclear strikes begins, then both we and they will hammer out of all barrels, which means there will be nowhere to hide in principle! The chain will go to explode all nuclear power plants, all production facilities, gas stations, fuel depots, etc. What the hell is the fleet ?! There will be hell, only not virtual from the picture, but the real one, about which no one living now has a clue! A year ago, saltpeter exploded in Beirut, the country still cannot come to its senses! What are you about?! Even if someone remains in Africa or Antarctica, they will slowly and painfully die, unless, of course, by that time they will be dumped on the Moon or Mars! )))
    1. 0
      22 October 2021 23: 47
      You speak as if an ICBM could be retargeted anywhere in an instant. This is a difficult and time-consuming procedure. And as to what can be done with the current number of warheads, Alexander published an extensive hundred. By the way, in other sources I met confirmation.
      1. -3
        23 October 2021 19: 08
        "You talk as if an ICBM could be retargeted anywhere in an instant. It is not an easy and time-consuming procedure." This procedure back in the 80s was decided now in the computer brains of ICBMs, all routes are laid and potential opponents are designated this is the United States and the United Kingdom, which are armed with Trident 2 ICBMs And you and the author and other guys at the technological level somewhere at the turn of the 70s and 80s of the last century stuck.
        1. +1
          25 October 2021 16: 19
          Back in the 2010s, aiming blocks on Kamaz trucks were taken to shpu, storyteller
          1. 0
            25 October 2021 21: 01
            On the Voevoda rocket, this problem was solved in the 80s, and if it was not solved on Topol Topol M or Ur 100UTTH so soon they would be removed from service - the aiming blocks were taken just to them on Kamaz trucks.
  46. +1
    22 October 2021 17: 19
    To wage a war, one must be ready to use weapons, as in combat conditions. Hence the question - are the Americans training to let the Tridents follow flat trajectories?
    1. +3
      22 October 2021 18: 08
      Not yet, but technically, when creating this rocket, this opportunity was incorporated into it.
  47. 0
    22 October 2021 18: 13
    What is the point for the Americans to fight or destroy Russia? Population optimization is being carried out successfully. Living conditions have been created to prevent childbirth. By destroying medicine, apparently we are already among the leaders in terms of disease and mortality from coronavirus and other diseases. ... In a few years, Albright's prediction will come true and several tens of millions of people will remain in Russia. There will be no one to live, let alone protect huge territories. There will be a question about the division of the territories of the once great country. The so-called elite have long worried about obtaining citizenship in other countries, buying palaces and castles, transferring money stolen.
    1. -1
      22 October 2021 20: 00
      "In a few years Albright's prediction will come true and several tens of millions of people will remain in Russia." - In a few hundred years, maybe, but not in a few years. And when did Albright become a fortuneteller?
      There will be no one to live, let alone protect huge territories. Robots will defend - we are already moving towards the robotization of the army, scientific and technical progress is not in place in any of the areas, the only thing it cannot influence is human laziness and idiocy, which now lead to such a large number of sick and dead - since they for the most part put on illness and all the precautions.
      1. 0
        25 October 2021 01: 05
        Optimism, based on false messages, gushes out of you. I read your comments and begin to be proud of your great country. Yours, mine were killed long ago.
        1. 0
          25 October 2021 21: 03
          I have no false messages, I have practical facts.
          1. 0
            26 October 2021 08: 11
            We drown with firewood and across half the country there is only one railway, and you mean robots. In comparison with the infrastructure of the enemy, we are still in the century before last, in some places. And their territory is not less than ours.
            And many get vaccinated because they don't believe this government. She lies all the time and is celebrated for show.
            1. -1
              27 October 2021 23: 33
              You heat with firewood - I have gas fired in another place, the central heating is like in all my industries - and yes, how the civil sector is connected with the military "Through half the country, there is only one railway This is where one railway passes through half the country - poke it on the map
              “Of course, we do not have military airfields all over the country, as well as military transport aviation.
              ... In comparison with the infrastructure of the enemy, we are back in the century before last, in some places - And what kind of infrastructure is developed - not really energy and heat, but it is so developed that now there, due to a sharp shortage of energy resources and their dramatically soaring cost, winter will become especially "pleasant"
              "And their territory is not less than ours." And the real area is the same.
              “And many get vaccinated because they don't believe this government. And what does the government have to do with the vaccine, doctors of sciences and doctors do it - that is, society has no trust in doctors and the same goes to science.
              "She is lying all the time and is celebrated for ostentation." This is your reason for not wearing masks, not washing and vaccinating, and putting a big bolt on the virus and for all measures related to the pandemic "Everything has come up with no virus" - "Normal Flu or ordinary SARS" "We will not get sick" - Nature in the form of a virus, fools are the first to weed out, but the tragedy is that these fools drag a lot of normal people with them to the hospital bed and to the grave.
              1. 0
                28 October 2021 07: 45
                My electricity is still being heated, they promised to supply gas next year. But this is the Moscow region, and people everywhere live and drown with wood in some other places. And this, in some places, is quite extensive.
                Why poke and so you can see, okay, let now there are two, but only the railway is the 21st century in the yard, there are no roads, only directions. Look how the enemy is with this.
                Who will freeze, p and n d o si? Why would it suddenly? And there is more propaganda chatter with the problems of gayrope. They will settle it, and they will also throw sanctions on our Kremlin lads. Which again we will disentangle, and the strap is already pierced with holes to the buckle. You can't be a little pregnant, or there is an enemy and then not any "partners", or ...
                Do not hang tags on me about vaccinations. My opinion should not be mumbled, as the guarantor does, but harshly everyone, by order, to the needle. Otherwise, fuck her with this muck. Diluted crap, it looks more like anarchy. Part of the population does not see the shores at all.
  48. 0
    22 October 2021 18: 42
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    Not yet, but technically, when creating this rocket, this opportunity was incorporated into it.

    There is an opportunity, but the military should be able to use it in practice, not in theory. And this is in any country.
  49. +4
    22 October 2021 18: 46
    The article is, of course, interesting in terms of discussion. I think that it is very difficult to deploy all forces and means unnoticed to strike. In the same Mediterranean Sea, a designated area, there are always two of our submarines on duty. I'm not even talking about intelligence, this is something that few of us know about, what are the possibilities of "leaking information".
    But even a hypothetical nuclear attack on Russia with hundreds of warheads would render the world uninhabitable even on the other side of the planet. This is even if Russia does not respond at all, even with tactical weapons against European bases, which the author so dreams of (where does such a desire come from, in any case not to respond to the same Britain, France, and other Poland? There are allies, missile bases). Any nuclear war is an attempt to survive the remaining humanity in unbearable conditions. Someone will survive, of course, someone will sit out in the bunker for 20-30-50 years, having grown there two or three generations. Is there such an opportunity for someone with a life support system for such a period? Fresh shrimps will not be delivered in the morning.
    And why suddenly they strike directly, accurately, accurately and in an orderly manner, planes will fly and catch something there below and finish off, and if ours strike back, then it is necessarily chaotic, sluggish and somehow embarrassed about it?
    Even if one of our nuclear submarines is "fired" by all 16 missiles and all the blocks land in the right place, then this will already be an unacceptable damage, because the chaos that will arise will demolish the entire "orange democracy".
    Nuclear war is needed only by down-and-out idiots. And the country is easier and cheaper to take over with green paper in the right pockets.
    1. -8
      22 October 2021 19: 43
      This submarine may not be fired. All the prerequisites for this exist.
      1. +2
        23 October 2021 02: 09
        She's not alone, but I assumed that only one will shoot. For the Americans, how smoothly everything turns out according to the article, but with us, even one cannot. Don't deify the Americans like that. Judging by what they are now giving out on the mountain, there are not many particularly smart ones there either.
      2. -1
        23 October 2021 19: 11
        Why don't nuclear submarines shoot back even from the shore?
  50. +2
    22 October 2021 19: 30
    And there is a support (from the point of view of the Americans, of course) - with a corrupt state administration controlled by the fifth column in power, an openly brainless state apparatus and near-zero economic development rates - Russia.
    If it were not for nuclear weapons, then the Russian Federation with its small population and vulnerable geographic location would have long been dismembered into several protectorates, which would also be at war with each other. But nuclear weapons made it, no, not impossible, but simply very difficult and dangerous. But you can take a chance and try.
    I don’t understand something - are we under their control or not? If so, what is the point of building this whole vegetable garden and what is the use of the fleet?
  51. The comment was deleted.
  52. +4
    22 October 2021 19: 50
    World War 2030s. What should we prepare for and what will be the role of the Navy? World War of the 2030s. What should we prepare for and what will be the role of the Navy?
    The Russian Navy will have only one role: save its SSBNs to strike decision-making centers. That’s it. Because they will wipe out our Navy in a matter of days.
    1. 0
      23 October 2021 19: 13
      Our fleet also has tactical nuclear warheads on the same anti-ship missiles.
  53. +4
    22 October 2021 20: 51
    In the introductory thesis that in order to deal with China, America needs to “knock out” us first, I cannot agree with you.
    In the case of the Great Patriotic War and World War II, Hitler, for propaganda and image reasons, could not confidently come to an agreement with the Bolsheviks because he did not believe in their ability to negotiate and this directly contradicted his rather definite political line. So the question, in principle, for the USSR and for the GG was not “will there be war or not” but “when will there be war.”
    In the case of the modern United States and what we call the “collective West,” the question does not sound so acute. Our leadership is much more negotiable than the Bolsheviks of the 30s, if only for reasons of the elite’s fierce dependence on connections with the West and Western capitals. At the moment, it is worth recognizing that the West specifically does not need practically anything from the Russian Federation that we do not sell there ourselves, voluntarily and with music. Moreover, our country, being a member of the UN Security Council and a member of many “international-type” organizations, behaves damn compliantly , generally facilitating adherence to a certain “all-Western” line regarding military-technological supplies to the so-called “rogue countries.” We were sitting on our butts exactly when the West was burying Uncle Saddam, Uncle Gaddafi, we did not supply S-400 to Iran, curtailed many trade deals with the DPRK, and so on. Beyond the boundaries of traditional jingoism, our foreign policy includes the actual minimization of agriculture for the West.
    The aspirations of our elites are still directed to the West, despite all these words about a “turn to the East.” We don’t like or understand the East; our residents are afraid of the cunning Chinese and value more the way things are handled in the West. And they understand this too.
    Actually, our aspirations and wet fantasies are also quite well known and understandable to the West and the United States. Our current generation of elites, conventionally “the authorities,” wants a conceptual conclusion to the twenty-year vinaigrette of success and chaos with a certain set of events that could be put into the capacious formulation “Triumph and completion.” This should be an event of moderate epicness, some kind of victory + nishtyak. For example, unification with the BLR, the lifting of a number of international sanctions, recognition of reunification with Crimea, etc. Maybe something else.
    So that our already middle-aged guarantors can report triumphantly and go into the sunset at the “congress of winners”, remain in history, leave a legacy, etc. For the West, all these niceties are complete bullshit, but still this is a CONCESSION. This is a bone that is reserved for bargaining. When and when we need to offer something. Important for us, but insignificant for them.
    And they can easily offer us all this - gracefully knocking them out from under the thick carcass of the PRC. They may tell us - here is a card blanche for you to enter Ukraine. Here is the lifting of restrictions from Europe. Here are your guarantees that we will not accept Georgia into NATO and will no longer create a nightmare for your raw materials workers. And in return, you stand aside with a candle while we deal with China.
    Do you think we won’t “stand still” after this? :)
  54. +2
    22 October 2021 22: 18
    I throw dry statistics at the fan. In support of the article and as a tribute to the cheering patriots.

    So.
    Ohio. SSBN.
    One joke.
    Displacement 18 thousand tons.
    Throwing weight 67 tons.
    SSBN Borey. One joke.
    Displacement 24 thousand tons.
    Throwing weight 17 tons.
    SSBN 667BDRM. One joke.
    Displacement 18,2 thousand tons.
    Throwing weight 45 tons.


    Draw your own conclusions.
    1. 0
      23 October 2021 01: 31
      Draw your own conclusions.
      Is it weak to chew for “coastal fuel oil”? Otherwise, it seems that someone else understands you besides you. Well, besides your gang, of course. Nobody argueslaughing
      1. 0
        23 October 2021 02: 12
        Draw your own conclusions.

        So what conclusions can be drawn from this? None. Even the author couldn't make them. I wrote tons and kilograms, so what?
      2. +1
        23 October 2021 05: 55
        The US Navy has 14 Ohio-class SSBNs. Several more pieces stuffed under the conning hatch with Axes, including special combat units. But we won’t even take them into account.
        Let's take 14 of them and take out not even all of them, but 10 of them.
        These 10 pieces will one-time shower the Russian Federation with warmth and light, the total weight of which will be 670 tons in natural weight.
        If we drive out into the sea even everything that can move and assume that it will all be shot off in one gulp, we will barely gain 100 tons.
        Now just think about how different the effectiveness of a strike is.
        Under other conditions, the United States has exactly the same warning system and missile defense systems.
        But this is exaggerated and primitive. In fact, let’s say, the amers have several orders of magnitude more chances to go out into the areas and shoot back, because they are able to provide cover and support to all their ten boats. We are not. We don't have the resources.
        Moreover, NATO is quite capable of closing our launch areas with its anti-aircraft weapons.
        All these fables about shooting from the pier are gone in the distant 80s.
        Again, we are talking about a preemptive strike, in which everything that remains at the pier is reduced to a molten state.
        Consequently, only those who are able to react will respond to the response - those who will be at sea.
        The paradox is that we have nothing to answer. There are nuclear weapons, but we cannot fully use them.
        And, what’s most unpleasant, we stubbornly rivet some kind of giants with short legs.
        1. 0
          23 October 2021 06: 04
          What's all this for? Moreover, the state of the American nuclear program is not decisive. It's important, though.
          The more important question is the acceptable damage of retaliatory use. When they consider the damage to their territory acceptable, then the time of X will come.
          And it's not far off.
        2. -1
          23 October 2021 15: 00
          Also, do not forget that Ukraine will be included in NATO (announced yesterday) and a missile strike with hypersonic and short-range missiles from its territory is possible with a flight time of four minutes!
          +250 thousand army, highly motivated
          After the most intractable ones are eliminated with the first blow, the Accountant will come to the rest with data from Big Data and explain in his fingers what will happen to the back-breaking labor acquired when answering
          Or maybe they’ll start right away with the second option; it worked amazingly effectively once. The “blue thief” kicked his legs right at Ilf and Petrov.
          1. 0
            23 October 2021 19: 35
            “Also, do not forget that Ukraine will be included in NATO (announced yesterday) and a missile strike with hypersonic and short-range missiles from its territory is possible with a flight time of four minutes!
            +250 thousand army, highly motivated" - In a parallel universe, perhaps only. And the motivation of personnel in a modern war is an empty place that does not affect anything - the conflict in Karabakh that recently occurred showed this perfectly.
            By the time hypersonic weapons appear there, Russia will already have a comprehensive missile defense system based on the same S 500.
            “After the most intractable ones are eliminated with the first blow, the Accountant will come to the rest with data from Big Data and explain in his fingers what will happen to the acquired back-breaking labor when answering” - Stop drinking your advice.
        3. 0
          23 October 2021 19: 28
          “Let’s take 14 of them and take out not even all of them, but 10 of them.” Yeah, they’ll take them without us noticing and take them out - What parallel universe do you live in?
          Under other conditions, the United States has exactly the same warning system and missile defense systems. This is something that can barely shoot down a Scud-type MRBM - and a very powerful and effective missile defense system.
          Moreover, NATO is quite capable of closing our launch areas with its anti-aircraft defense systems - And how will this prevent our boats from firing back in response to an enemy attack while at the pier? All these fables about shooting from the pier are gone in the distant 80s. - How will this interfere with launching missiles?
          Again, we are talking about a preemptive strike, in which everything that remains at the pier is reduced to a molten state. But we no longer have early warning systems, just like air defense at naval bases; are they all stupid, blind and deaf?
          Consequently, only those who are able to react will respond to the response - those who will be at sea. All components of the Strategic Missile Forces will respond.
          “The paradox is that we have nothing to answer with. There are nuclear weapons, but we cannot use them to the full.” Did you come up with this nonsense yourself or did someone suggest it?
          And, what’s most unpleasant, we stubbornly rivet some kind of giants with short legs. What kind of giants with short legs are Russia riveting?
  55. The comment was deleted.
  56. +2
    22 October 2021 23: 35
    Unfortunately, it can literally start from nothing (Afghanistan because of something or Iraq? All rational explanations are broken by strange results). And the fleet looks like the weakest link in the domestic defense.
    Why haven’t we laid down 2 more frigates of the Gorshkov series this year, that’s the question. Has the concept changed or are there not enough engines for everyone again?
  57. DMi
    +2
    22 October 2021 23: 39
    1. The topic of C400 and C 500 is not covered
    2. The topic of "Peresvet" has not been disclosed, but meanwhile it has already been stated in plain text that it will cover patrol areas of ground-based complexes.
    3. The theme of “Poseidon” has not been disclosed, but meanwhile, for unacceptable damage, one tablet from each coast is enough.
    4. The theme of "Petrel" has not been revealed. And by that time he will already be flying)


    5. Oh yes. Here and there, reports appear about a certain KAZ to cover ICBM mines. But for the author, all the mines die ingloriously at once, and without options.
    1. 0
      26 October 2021 02: 38
      Did you provide Internet access to the kindergarten? Poseidon is mentioned in more detail in the sequel.
      And yes, it is not yet in service.
  58. +2
    23 October 2021 00: 00
    Will the S-500 be able to shoot down a Trident warhead?
    1. DMi
      +3
      23 October 2021 00: 42

      The Russian military department conducted a series of exercises for air defense regiments to repel massive strikes by enemy aircraft, as well as cruise and hypersonic missiles. In addition to maneuvers with electronic launches, live firing was carried out at the Ashuluk and Kapustin Yar training grounds. As part of practical shooting, anti-aircraft systems intercepted hypersonic weapons of destruction of a mock enemy, which were high-speed targets.

      As Izvestia writes, citing military sources, within the framework of the ongoing exercises, the emphasis was on combating hypersonic weapons. At the Ashuluk training ground, the S-400 air defense systems of the Leningrad Air Defense Association of the Western Military District were deployed, and at the Kapustin Yar training ground, targets were hit by the S-400 and Pantsir-S1 complexes of the anti-aircraft missile regiment from the troops and forces in the north-east of Russia. It is emphasized that the exercises were considered successful.




      And the author also kept silent that the longer the range and the higher the altitude of the ballistic missile, the higher the speed of the warhead in the final section of the trajectory. With a range of less than 2000 km and a flat trajectory, they may not even have time to accelerate to hypersound. We need more numbers, but fewer handwritten pictures and fewer emotions.
      1. +4
        23 October 2021 01: 33
        It has the highest point of its trajectory when it reaches 90-150 km in altitude. And that’s where the BBs are being bred, what are you going to use to shoot them down there?
        1. +1
          23 October 2021 06: 10
          There’s not even a question about what to shoot down, but how fast the missile defense response will be in the event of a massive strike.
          Personally, I'm not sure that 3-5 minutes is enough.
          1. +1
            24 October 2021 04: 18
            Quote: Alexander Lysenko
            There are no words... Show me this fucking Poseidon already!!!

            Poseidon also has a carrier. And like all boats, it is potentially vulnerable to anti-aircraft weapons.
            1. -3
              25 October 2021 21: 10
              And in the event of a “Missile attack” signal, he can launch those same NPA vehicles in standby mode while being at the same pier. "He is potentially vulnerable to anti-aircraft weapons."
              Yes, I see that during a nuclear exchange of strikes, anti-aircraft weapons will snoop around looking for submarines when all the bases where these anti-aircraft weapons are based will be destroyed within 30 minutes.
              1. 0
                26 October 2021 02: 39
                This is a torpedo, there is a reactor there for 5 days, if it survives, it’s already good and it won’t swim back into the torpedo tube
                1. 0
                  27 October 2021 23: 38
                  “This is a torpedo, there is a reactor there for 5 days, if it survives for XNUMX days, it’s already good” - You are the designer of this power plant. This is a bold statement, which means it must be based on something technical.
                  It will not swim back into the torpedo tube. - Of course, they won’t swim - they will come to the right place and there they will be caught at the base with the help of a crane and taken away by an auxiliary vessel.
                  1. +1
                    11 November 2021 09: 18
                    It is based on the testimony of a person who signed documents for the first research work on this topic.
        2. DMi
          0
          26 October 2021 08: 58
          S-500 target height 200 km. Or are the designers lying?
    2. -1
      23 October 2021 02: 13
      Will the S-500 be able to shoot down a Trident warhead?

      We don't know. But some of the missiles will be intercepted, some will not launch, and some will fly in the wrong direction.
    3. +1
      23 October 2021 19: 38
      On the final trajectory it may well.
  59. 0
    23 October 2021 01: 31
    only the start will be much earlier. In 2030, according to RAND, the United States will no longer be able to win the battle in Taiwan. In fact, the end may come much earlier. The fact is that China will delay this moment as long as possible. But in the United States, time is against them - the later the outcome, the less chance of success. Therefore, the United States has already begun to aggravate the situation with Taiwan, here is AUKUS, American special forces in Taiwan, selling weapons there and further down the list. Perhaps already 23-24 years can become fatal.
    1. +1
      23 October 2021 19: 47
      They no longer have any chance of success, since if they unleash this crazy scenario, the lid will come to them without options. Russia's early warning systems and Strategic Missile Forces have long been not the same as with which it was possible to pull off something similar in the 70s and 80s.
      Therefore, the United States has already begun to aggravate the situation with Taiwan, and here is AUKUS, the American special forces in Taiwan. If China decides, the United States will have no chance of helping Taiwan; the Chinese will capture it within two or three days - on the very first day they will overwhelm it with MRBMs, of which they have thousands.
  60. +3
    23 October 2021 02: 40
    How vanishingly small is the probability of the 3rd World War starting out of thin air, without a period of escalation of tension, during which the country will be put on full alert? Seriously, imagine the picture: the top of a deteriorating America gathers in the oval office and decides that it wouldn’t be a bad idea to complicate their lives with nuclear armageddon. I’ll tell you a little secret: man is a creature that really loves to live. And it’s better to be comfortable. Warm up the belly in Miami, go to the ranch to visit the horses. And somehow radioactive fallout fits into this idyll. Coupled with the hefty probability of being wiped off the face of the earth, it will become quite unpleasant. No, maybe schizoids will sit in the presidential chair and on the chairs in Congress, and this cannot be ruled out, but... You know, I would rather believe that in order to maintain nuclear parity, Russia will ship a hundred new yars to the United States than that anyone then in his right mind he would decide to press the button first
  61. The comment was deleted.
  62. +2
    23 October 2021 11: 10
    The United States is vulnerable due to geography, this was proven by the non-Nobel laureate Sakharov.
    We cannot unequivocally compete with them in fleet construction, although to some extent there is an answer: improving the quality of missile weapons when the RTO becomes a queen. In naval aviation it is necessary and possible to increase efforts, again in space, as long as the Americans do not go for its demilitarization.
    Well, improve air defense/missile defense, electronic warfare, which we are doing quickly - a completely asymmetrical response, instead of letting our eyes go out of our sockets - destroying aircraft carriers.
    In diplomacy, it is more open to inform all Poles that they are our legitimate target, like the Aviano and Ramstein bases, without pink snot and riding in PACE...
    With China we will come to a binding alliance similar to Article 5 of NATO, and this will change a lot in the world, even today, not to mention the future.
    And the owners of the Fed will have to endure the collapse of the United States, with a possible split into two or three states (for example, North, South and Texas, and maybe the APR in Alaska). But there is no need to worry about them; like rats, they will survive any apocalypse.
    And I think they are preparing reserve airfields for themselves in various Singapore-Australia, and if it is profitable, they will convert the assets into yuan without hesitation, leaving those who have them in their hands to flounder with the dollar, like two sixes in one card game.
  63. +6
    23 October 2021 13: 25
    A funny motive for starting a nuclear war is to knock the props out of China. That is, having spent most of the nuclear charges, having lost several tens of millions of people and, probably, part of its infrastructure, the United States will have a better chance of winning a war with China?
    1. +1
      11 November 2021 09: 18
      They will have the opportunity to bend China without war at all, leaving it as their factory of cheap consumer goods, but forcing it to abandon its independent policy.
  64. The comment was deleted.
  65. +3
    23 October 2021 15: 04
    Let's assume that the "disarming" blow is delivered. Or rather, the enemy’s missiles had already taken off. I cannot admit that the Russian General Staff does not have an action plan for such a scenario. 8 minutes minimum flight time to Russian territory? So, any sane military man will communicate the protocols of action in advance to the commanders of strategic missile launchers, in which case they must have time to launch missiles in response within these 8 minutes. IMHO
  66. +2
    23 October 2021 15: 57
    Author, please clarify a few questions:
    1.
    After all, it is thanks to this fraudulent trick that they maintain a negative trade balance with the rest of the world for decades, today it is about a trillion dollars a year.

    Where does this information come from, is it possible to “proof it in the studio”?
    By the way, why is the trick fraudulent? As for me, this is the norm, it’s just that people in power in the United States think about their country, surprise, more than ours. Oh yes - they are “stupid”.

    2.
    It is the SSBNs, if their combat stability is ensured and their numbers are sufficient for a powerful strike, that can become such an instrument of inevitable retaliation.

    About a year or two ago, a good article was published on VO (by the way, give me a link, if anyone can, I can’t find it), noting the complete limitations of our fleet, both surface and underwater, in terms of access to open water. The bottom line is that our fleet can be locked up at bases or adjacent seas for a “one-two punch.” The experience of previous wars shows that we have always been, let’s say, rather weak at sea and the prospects for a significant improvement in the situation are very slim

    3. It is not entirely clear why, after the supposed defeat of the Russian Federation, China will suddenly kneel? Why, excuse me, were you scared? Moreover, having fired at the Russian Federation, having spent a lot of missiles, the United States will be weakened in some way, and China, like that same wise monkey, comes down from a tree and hits both the lion and the crocodile on the heads.

    As for the option to survive, we must remember a very simple thing: the USSR tanks were, you know, near Berlin, and they could “roll over” Europe in three or four weeks. All over Europe. And what? Never mind. The USSR, as we know, has collapsed into a crowd of degenerate puppet states, half of which hate us fiercely, a third simply tolerate, and the rest are still drinking blood, as they did from the RSFSR in their time.
    Hence the conclusion - without an answer to the simple question: “Why do we need each other at all?”, that is, a normal, state-forming ideology, without establishing order in the management system of the Russian Federation, without control of power by the people, without introducing personal responsibility of government officials and much more, not even the most beautiful SSBNs will save us - everything will be “leaked”, sold and squandered without any nuclear strikes.
    Our weakness at the moment is systemic, not military.
    I think so.
  67. -4
    23 October 2021 17: 15
    America is just an island between two oceans and “Poseidons” will scare enough and cool the ardor of the warriors? The main thing is to make the right decision and strike pre-emptively!
    1. -4
      23 October 2021 20: 07
      There are no words... Show me this fucking Poseidon already!!!
      1. -1
        25 October 2021 21: 25
        Admire while this is all there is from the open view

        and its carrier nuclear submarine Belgorod
  68. +1
    23 October 2021 19: 50
    All generals are preparing for past wars (c)
    The global military cauldron is boiling almost non-stop, but the key hot conflict, as calculations show, for the redivision of the world will start only in 2026 and by 2031 will one way or another lead the world to a new order. The World of Macroregions.
    During this time, the United States will have time to go through a civil war and the collapse of which we may see beginning already in 2022. If it has its own “Napoleon,” then by the end of the 20s, his revenge, coupled with digital fascists, is very possible.
    All other things being equal, the main theater of operations is Southeast Asia, and the Middle East has not lost its potential. Europe will have its own sorrows. In general, network time, network wars. Both the enemy and the weapon will become rather synthetic categories, and we will have to be more afraid of dirty bombs, disorganization of farms and services, biological attacks, and a war without rear lines on the quality of organization.
    But before that there was a global crisis and the collapse of the existing world order, including the monetary order, and including the current military systems and institutions.
    We have started a lot, but in order not to lose, we still have to do even more. But the USA and England will not attack, they have disintegration ahead. For them, our 90s will be paradise. But this does not mean that China and we will have nothing to do.
  69. -1
    23 October 2021 21: 15
    I really want even more money for this insanely senseless arms race!!! Already the First World War showed that it should be the last world war, because it is impossible to achieve victory and enjoy its fruits - the destruction is catastrophic. And only the birth of disgusting commies made World War II inevitable. But time put everything in its place and people threw the commies into the historical dustbin. Einstein: “I don’t know with what weapon man will fight the third world war, but the fourth will be with a stick and a stone”...
    1. 0
      23 October 2021 22: 12
      How hard it is for you to live, “there are enemies all around.” Taking money away is bad, giving it away equally is also bad. But there is no third option
  70. 0
    23 October 2021 21: 31
    I would prefer to increase our strategic nuclear potential (at least 4 times, up to 6000 charges, as was the case when Putin came to power, but more is better, the ideal is 40000, then even if we miss the first strike, there will still be enough for everyone, no one will not leave unoffended) and make it distributed. Let every army missile brigade have Yars, and a signal from Moscow for launch will be optional.
    1. 0
      24 October 2021 15: 44
      6000 is the most optimal - and 40000 is a senseless overkill with a waste of a huge amount of material resources and trillions of rubles.
      1. -1
        24 October 2021 20: 38
        40000 are needed in case we miss and have to strike back: even if they take out 95% of our funds (no one can count on more than 95), then the remaining 2000 charges will be enough for a lot, taking into account that there will definitely be no need to hit the mines.
        1. 0
          25 October 2021 21: 26
          It’s impossible to knock out 10%.
  71. The comment was deleted.
  72. 0
    24 October 2021 02: 55
    Provocative article...
    1. -2
      24 October 2021 15: 45
      The article is not provocative; it is simply fantasy bordering on nonsense.
  73. 0
    24 October 2021 17: 06
    Quote: andybuts
    I guess. But why should the Americans fight Russia?

    The natives must be removed. Otherwise they unfairly own natural resources.
  74. The comment was deleted.
  75. +5
    25 October 2021 09: 37
    I went through the “apocalypse scenario” described by the author up and down in a Soviet textbook during my cadet-lieutenant years. And the same divisions, the same communication and control centers were considered, except that the flight time of missiles from SSBNs was considered not 7 (theoretically calculated), but 9 minutes (organizationally and technically feasible). The second option was the so-called. "US aerospace offensive operation, the author mentions it in a hint"...we don’t know how to maintain such combat readiness as the Americans and basically we just don’t believe that this can happen in principle..."And this happened in the early 90s, respectively - it was calculated by Soviet scientists in the 80s at least. And then retaliatory measures were already taken, the goal of which was, if not the military defeat of the United States "und under", then the infliction of the so-called "unacceptable damage." Everyone knows about the "Pyrrhic victory", I hope... But nothing new. The Americans, through publications like "The National Interest", scare themselves with horror stories even more severe than this.
    1. 0
      25 October 2021 16: 17
      And then retaliatory measures were already taken, the goal of which was, if not the military defeat of the United States "und undere


      Well then. And now how are you implementing these response measures?
      1. 0
        25 October 2021 23: 30
        Here the United States is afraid to attack the DPRK - but in your opus they will dare to attack Russia - the author wanted to ask. Are you not from Ukraine for an hour?
        1. 0
          26 October 2021 02: 40
          Nobody is afraid of the DPRK
          1. -1
            27 October 2021 23: 47
            “Nobody is afraid of the DPRK” - It’s true, but then neither South Korea nor Japan nor the United States can do anything about it for a decade now, they’ve been installing missile defense systems everywhere with a convulsive look, watching new tests of Juche missiles and reacting to them with hysteria - what is this? kind of unafraid?
            1. +1
              11 November 2021 09: 16
              Do they want to do something?
  76. 0
    25 October 2021 15: 27
    Good day. I read all three articles. Thank you Alexander. I did not consider this problem from this perspective. You helped me look deeper, thank you again for that. I will rethink raising my grandchildren.
  77. +1
    27 October 2021 03: 33
    There will be a war without contamination of resources by radiation.
    Here the United States cannot cope with Covid, but there radiation will spread throughout the planet.
    And what will Americans catch in Eurasia between foci of radioactive contamination? There won't be enough gas masks in the USA itself when the radiation spreads all over the ball.
    1. 0
      27 October 2021 23: 49
      They now have big problems there with food and energy resources that could soon turn into a disaster, and you are talking about radiation, and the author is talking about attacks on Russia by strategic nuclear forces.
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  79. The comment was deleted.
  80. Aag
    0
    28 October 2021 04: 30
    Quote: Vadim237
    Apparently, you don't know how to read - written in Russian for the gifted, the replacement of the An 2 built will pass the tests and go into the series. "And you are putting forward air defense projects (with fantastic characteristics, in incredible quantities) .." There is only one "Project" here, and that is you.

    ...Illiterate boor...
  81. 0
    28 October 2021 13: 10
    Why beat us? in 15 years we will have nothing left. Everything that exists will exhaust the resource and become obsolete. Everything is sad about people too, the population is decreasing. Many are leaving.
    Americans stupidly look at statistics for 5-10-30 years and see everything. No demographic explosions are expected. Technological breakthroughs too. The resource base is melting, in 15 years we won’t be producing as much oil and gas. We are already introducing all the latest deposits.
    that's all!
    Amers, samurai, Chinese just need to wait
    1. -1
      2 November 2021 09: 52
      Are you okay? otherwise you are all about others, and about others.... You just need to release the poison somewhere???
      1. +1
        2 November 2021 10: 09
        I'm talking about us.
        1. -1
          2 November 2021 10: 20
          So I ask: are you a specialist in military strategy??? Why are you minding your own business? Without fully knowing all the nuances, it is impossible to correctly answer the questions that the author of the article covers! And the nuances are the most important thing and this is a military secret! Answer one question: if everything is so bad with our defense, why haven’t the USA and NATO attacked us yet??? When you give a reasonable answer to this question, then you can be considered?
          1. +1
            3 November 2021 06: 11
            I give a reasoned answer - they don’t need it. Now and in the next 10-20-30 years, they have no problems with resources. So they sit and watch us self-destruct. We are regressing. We're getting smaller. Why attack us now? We are under different pressure - sanctions, doping scandals in sports, competition in the arms market, a pandemic, degradation of education. Our military equipment is still using up its resources.
            But the main thing is our population. It will soon be difficult to protect such a huge territory.
  82. -1
    15 November 2021 19: 02
    The absolute deterrent may be, in the event of defeat according to the described scenario, the ability to destroy the planet as a space object. Something to think about...
  83. 0
    17 November 2021 15: 51
    The military aspect as an option was considered by our analysts back in Soviet times. It seems quite logical to me. But there are a number of comments of a military-political nature: it seems to me that the author gravitates towards statics and does not consider the dynamics of the development of the problem, incl. and quite alternative. In particular, the author assumes that the course of the Russian leadership towards a tough military confrontation and retaliatory confrontation by the United States will remain unchanged. However, as very recent history teaches us, this may not be entirely true, and even not entirely true for the mutual benefit of the parties to a potential conflict. Since now our country, at the speed of the Sapsan, is following an economic and political impasse and falling into isolationism, the result will be something similar to what the former USSR faced in the 80s of the last century - the ruin and disintegration of the economy and social sphere exponentially. And it will be much more convenient and cheaper for pragmatic Americans to help us overcome the crisis, especially since no other country will have the physical ability to do this, well, perhaps Germany is a stretch. Naturally, they will have a need to guarantee the immutability and irreversibility of the positive development of relations between countries. This option seems more likely to me.
  84. 0
    28 November 2021 10: 21
    "There is a rising China. There is a US that wants to prevent its rise."
    Well, how persistent are stereotypes! China is already the ABSOLUTE industrial leader of the world (57% of world steel production, 14,5 times more than in the USA)! No one outside China knows what China's real nuclear potential is; it is likely that by the early 30s it will exceed that of all other nuclear powers combined. “Bringing China to its knees” is downright funny! Already now, a war against China for the United States is absolutely guaranteed suicide. So the United States will try to somehow come to an agreement with China, but on what terms and at whose expense, we will see...
  85. 0
    14 January 2022 14: 26
    hmm, sad
  86. 0
    3 March 2022 17: 44
    What can I say, “comrade” is unsuccessfully trying to pull the owl onto the globe. I'll explain why:
    1. it won’t be possible to destroy submarines and strike on land at the same time, it’s just physically impossible - at any hint of preparation for such a strike, the General Staff will take action, but it won’t be possible to prepare covertly, all fleets are tracked in real time
    2. even if by some miracle the United States is able to destroy all stationary bases in central Russia, there will still be mobile units left, plus Siberia, plus the Far East. Do not consider our command idiots, who concentrated all their forces in one place not far from the NATO borders
    3. if now everything is very sad in the United States with nuclear weapons and delivery systems, then in 10-15 years it will be even worse, and Russia is increasing its strength every year, including missile defense, air defense and strengthening the nuclear triad. Well, that is, if they could ever attack, it was not even today, but 10 years ago, and every year the chances are less and less
    4. even if it flies only from Siberia and the Far East, the United States will receive irreparable damage - the main cities of the country will be destroyed. The elite, of course, can expect to survive and “” they don’t feel sorry for them, there are no questions about it. The question is different - how can they rule the world after this, if no one except the USA and Russia suffered? Yes, China will be the first to rush to finish off the United States in such a situation. He will have nothing to lose.
    Even in theory, they cannot expect to win without receiving a retaliatory blow. This is what held them back even in the 90s, when they were on horseback and Russia was in ruins. Even then they understood that the victory would be Pyrrhic. And now, even more so, nothing shines for them. Here Putin said everything correctly - everyone will die.
    5. how the Russian fleet could prevent missile launches from a random location far from our borders - this is a great mystery, and here the author pulled an owl on the globe.
    6. In addition to nuclear weapons, there are also bacteriological weapons, for example, and in the event of an attack on Russia, who will guarantee that we will not respond? Here, even one rocket may be enough for half the planet’s population to die (if not the entire population). In general, in an apocalyptic scenario, there is no need to even blow up rockets; the virus can be released just like that. And by the way, this works in both directions, the United States also has a bunch of different viruses and they are well aware of the danger of their use.
    7. All this Russophobia and “irrational behavior” is complete nonsense, everything always comes down to the economy. The United States does not want to see strong competitors, not because of some kind of mentality or characteristics, but simply because a strong competitor prevents them from robbing everyone around them.

    To summarize, the US will have two options to choose from:
    1. deflate to the level of a regional power, threatening everyone who wants to take revenge on it with the remains of nuclear weapons (no fools will interfere) with the potential opportunity to return to the “big game” after 30 years, having sorted out their problems
    2. go all-in and “the whole world will fall into ruin,” but with the guarantee that someone else, like China, will take advantage of the results of their suicide. And he will definitely use it, yes.
    For some reason, the author counts all presidents, generals, etc. idiots. This is his right, we all know that taxi drivers are the best TOP managers and presidents. Fortunately, “for some reason” no one allows them to rule the country and show them “how it should be”) And they themselves do not have enough brains to make such a career (suddenly, yes).

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