World War I. Russia at war

266

Introduction


Russia entered the bloody struggle for world domination as a second-rate member of the Entente. The military strength of the Russian Empire hid its internal contradictions and fundamental weaknesses. Russian tsarism combined elements of a semi-feudal, semi-colonial country, heavily dependent on foreign capital, with the aggressive features of imperialism.

However, Russia's military objectives were regional and provincial, reflecting its relative weakness. Tsarism did not strive for domination in Europe, but for the seizure of the Turkish straits. This would turn the Black Sea into a "Russian lake" and allow the Russian naval the fleet pass freely into the Mediterranean. Also, the aspirations of tsarism extended to Polish Galicia, the Balkans, and the lands of the Caucasus under Turkish control.



Great Britain and France were quite happy to promise to grant these lands to the Russian Empire in case of victory. Promises they weren't going to keep.

But in exchange for such promises, a certain price had to be paid. Frightened by the seemingly unstoppable German offensive, the French imperialists insistently demanded that the Russian army attack in the East in order to ease pressure on France and divert German troops from Paris.

French imperialism insisted that Russia start military operations as a means of diverting German troops to the East. Since tsarist Russia was heavily indebted to French finance capital, there could be no question of a refusal to comply with the request of Paris, which in fact looked more like a direct order. People in Paris were now paying back their debts. Russia paid with the blood of its people for its right to be a member of the imperialist club.

Latent weakness


On paper, Russia was a formidable military force, and the mood of the Russian ruling circles was optimistic. In March 1914, an article appeared in the Russian press that was believed to be the work of Minister of War Sukhomlinov. It said:

The army is not only numerous, but also superbly equipped. Russia has always fought on a foreign land and has always won. Russia is no longer on the defensive. Russia is ready.

The cruel irony of these words was fully revealed even before the end of the year.

The Russian army is used to fighting the more backward peoples of the Caucasus and Central Asia. This morally "disarmed" the Russian soldiers who were not ready to confront the formidable forces of modern industrial Germany. The inherent weakness of the Russian army was brutally exposed by the war with Japan in 1904-1905, which led directly to the revolution of 1905-1906. In the years of the counter-revolution that followed the defeat of the revolution, the monarchy, with the support of the bourgeoisie, tried to reform and modernize the army. But these reforms remained incomplete in 1914, when Russia faced a much more severe test.

Each army is a reflection of the society from which it emerges, and the Russian army was no exception. There were very talented Russian officers, people like Alexei Alekseevich Brusilov. Years later, British Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery opined that Brusilov was one of the seven outstanding military commanders of the First World War. But for every capable officer in the Russian army, there were a dozen idle, cowardly, and inept aristocrats promoted to leadership positions through favoritism and family ties.

The deep contradictions in society were extremely aggravated by the war, which not only turned ordinary soldiers and sergeants against their officers, but even forced some of the latter to go over to the side of the Bolsheviks in the Civil War.

Throughout the First World War, at every turn, the army leadership was exposed to the poisonous influence of the court clique, especially the queen, who constantly manipulated and intrigued to remove capable men and replace them with their favorites.


Russian offensive


Under the command of Grand Duke Nicholas, the Russian army entered the war with a total number of 1,5 million people with 3 million reservists - more numerically than the German army. In August 1914, two Russian armies entered Germany through East Prussia and Austria through the Carpathians. In the beginning, the Russian army was successful against both the Germans and the Austrians.

No one could doubt the courage of the Russian soldiers, who, when they ran out of ammunition, fought with bayonets. But in modern warfare, the courage of the individual soldier is not necessarily the deciding factor. For all their bravery, the Russian soldiers were nothing more than cannon fodder. Their initial successes only masked deep problems in the Russian army.

The real balance of forces in modern warfare is determined not only by numbers, but also by equipment and supplies, modern weapons, training of troops and the quality of officers and sergeants. These factors, in turn, are determined by the relative level of industrial, technological and cultural development of each country. Russia's less developed industrial base and ineffective military leadership were vividly demonstrated during the unfolding events.

The initial Russian attack caused panic among the German civilian population. There was a cry from all sides: "The Cossacks are coming!" Anxiety soon spread to the German General Staff, which transferred two divisions from the Western Front to the Eastern Front. This helped the French to give the respite they needed on the Marne to stop the German advance on Paris. But the Germans shouldn't have been so worried.

Thousands of Russian servicemen were sent to the front without proper equipment. They lacked everything: weapons, ammunition, shoes and bedding. Up to a third of Russian soldiers did not receive a rifle. At the end of 1914, the Russian General Staff reported that 100 new rifles were required every month, but Russian factories were capable of producing less than half of that amount (000 per month). The Russian army had sixty batteries of heavy artillery, while the German army had 42. Russia had two machine guns per battalion, and Germany had thirty-six.

By December 1914, the Russian army numbered 6 people. However, they only had 553 rifles. Untrained troops were ordered to engage in combat without proper weaponry or ammunition. In the Russian army, there was about one surgeon for every 000 people. With medical personnel scattered across the front, the likelihood that any Russian soldier would receive any medical treatment was close to zero.

The backwardness of Russian capitalism manifested itself in shortages of military supplies and finance, as well as in a shortage of ammunition. The number of factories was simply too small for their production, while the lack of railroad lines made it difficult to transport troops.


Battle of Tannenberg


The two Russian armies in East Prussia were under the command of Generals Rennenkampf and Samsonov. Rennenkampf's 1st Army was to clash with Samsonov's 2nd Army in order to give a two-to-one numerical superiority over the German 8th Army. The plan started off well. However, due to poor relations between the two generals and due to the difficulties of communication between the armies, the operation in East Prussia ended in disaster.

The German army under the command of Ludendorff counterattacked, and by August 29 the Russian center, numbering three army corps, was surrounded by the Germans and trapped in the gloomy and impassable depths of the Tannenberg Forest, unable to escape. The Battle of Tannenberg lasted three days. General Samsonov tried to retreat, but found himself surrounded by a huge German cordon, which held the Russian troops in a vice. Most of his troops were killed or captured. Only 10 of the 000 Russian soldiers were able to escape. Stunned by the scale of the disaster, General Samsonov shot himself.

The behavior of the Russian General Staff at Tannenberg was indescribably horrific. Uncoded battle plans were sent out on the radio, and the generals leading the offensive, Samsonov and von Rennenkampf, refused to communicate with each other. The Germans outplayed the Russians and were able to deal with one Russian army at a time due to the incompetence of the generals and the backwardness of communications and transport. Under Tannenberg, the Russians lost 100 men in one day. By the end of the battle, the Germans had destroyed almost the entire Russian 000nd Army.

The Germans, who lost only 13 people in the battle, were able to capture more than 800 Russians. The German victory at Tannenberg set the stage for the First Battle of the Masurian Lakes a week later, where the reinforced German 92th Army now clashed with the Russian 000st Army and inflicted a crushing defeat on it. Despite more than three times the numerical superiority in the region (8 Germans versus 1 Russians), Russian casualties were nine times greater than those of the Germans.

Among the dead Russians were a large number of officers who kindly went into battle in their ceremonial uniforms, becoming excellent targets for German snipers and machine gunners. By 1915, the probability of a Russian officer being killed was eighty-two percent. In some sectors of the front, their life expectancy was only four to five days. The German machine gunner wrote in a letter:

They just kept on advancing, and we just kept firing. From time to time we had to push bodies to the side in order to shoot fresh waves.

The German Ninth Army, led by August von Mackensen, attacked the Russian Second Army under the command of General Smirnov near the Polish village of Bolimów, located on the railway line connecting Lodz and Warsaw. This battle was the first attempt at a large-scale use of poison gas.

On New Year's Eve, the Germans fired eighteen thousand xylyl bromide gas shells at the Russians. But the poisonous cloud carried them back to their own positions. The gas caused few, if any, casualties because the cold weather caused it to freeze, rendering it ineffective.

The failure of the gas attack forced the German command to cancel it. In response, the Russians launched a counterattack with eleven divisions. They were fired upon by German artillery. As a result, 40 people died. No army could withstand such a huge amount of losses that Russia suffered in the first ten months of the war.

In total, the losses amounted to about 350 people, as well as a huge amount of military equipment.

Thus, the Russian offensive in East Prussia ended in a shameful defeat.


The fall of Warsaw


The offensive operations of the Russians on the southwestern front were more successful, allowing them to advance through the Carpathians into Galicia. These impressive glorious victories contrasted sharply with the catastrophic defeats on other fronts. But here the Russian army faced the weak Austro-Hungarian, and not the modern German troops. The successes of Russia against Austria-Hungary are explained more by the weakness of Austria-Hungary than by the strength of Russia.

The success of the Russian offensive, led by General Brusilov, was short-lived.

The arrival of German reinforcements in May 1915 again forced the Russians to retreat. By the spring of 1915, the Russians had retreated to Galicia, and in May the central powers broke through Poland's southern borders. On August 5, they captured Warsaw and forced the Russians to leave Poland.

The invasion of East Prussia was a bloody failure for the Russians. But the worst was yet to come. On the Eastern Front, the next phase of the joint Austro-German offensive against the Russians began in northern Poland as the Austro-Germans advanced towards Warsaw. The Russian army was weakening every day as a result of chronic shortages of supplies and a decline in morale.

Within five days of the start of the offensive, Austro-German forces broke through the Russian lines and pushed the Russian 3rd and 8th armies further east. Russian casualties soon exceeded 400. On August 000, 5, Warsaw itself was taken by Austro-German troops, ending the century of Russian control over the city. Inspired by their successes, the Austro-German troops continued their offensive, capturing Ivangorod, Kovno, Brest-Litovsk, Bialystok, Grodno and Vilnius. By the end of September, Russian troops were driven out of Poland and Galicia far beyond the original lines from which they began the war in 1915.

The Russian attack ended in disaster, but it helped ease the pressure on the French army and undoubtedly played an important role in stopping the German advance on Paris. The head of French intelligence, Colonel Dupont, wrote:

"Their defeat was one of the elements of our victory."

For now, the battered Russian army has been effectively eliminated as an offensive threat on the Eastern Front, allowing the Germans to re-concentrate on the Western Front.

The crisis on the home front


The aggregate losses of the Russians as a result of the Austro-German offensives in Galicia and Poland amounted to more than 1 people, 800 of whom were captured. Capture rates were the most obvious symptom of the disaster. To make up for these horrific losses, barely trained recruits had to be called into active service, a process repeated throughout the war.

The same was true for the officer class, especially in the lower echelons. The gaps left by the loss of skilled officers and sergeants were quickly filled by untrained soldiers moving up the career ladder, usually from the peasant or working class. Many of them were to play a large role in the politicization of the troops in 1917. At the front, Russian soldiers were without rifles, which they could only get from fellow soldiers after they were killed or wounded. Only on July 1, 1915, the Central Committee of the War Industry was created in Russia to oversee production and solve the problem of an acute shortage of artillery shells and rifles.

The news of the military disaster caused panic in the ruling circles. Minister of War Polivanov, responding to his colleagues, alarmed by the situation at the front, said:

I put my trust in impassable spaces, impassable dirt and the mercy of Saint Nicholas of Mirliki, the defender of Holy Russia.

It was August 4, 1915. A week later, General Ruski admitted:

The modern requirements of military equipment are beyond our strength. In any case, we cannot keep up with the Germans.

What came to be known as the Great Retreat often turned into a disorderly flight. Desertion was common. Russian generals forced the civilian population to pay for their own criminal incapacity. They issued a brutal order for the complete evacuation of the Polish civilian population. This caused terrible suffering to the people as they were forced to leave their homes and head east, blocking roads and obstructing the movement of Russian troops. Huge tracts of land were devastated. As always in such cases, bloody pogroms were unleashed against the Jews - as a convenient way to divert the soldiers' anger from the true culprits of their suffering.

The retreating mass of Russian troops and civilians from Poland added fuel to the smoldering flames of political and social unrest in Russia, which were increasingly directed against the tsar and his degenerate and corrupt court clique. The tsar expressed his indignation at the defeat, removing his commander-in-chief of the army, Nikolai Nikolaevich, and taking over command of the army, although he had no practical experience in waging war or commanding infantry and artillery in battle.

Taking personal command of the Russian army, Nicholas hoped to rally his demoralized troops. However, this decision did not have the slightest impact on Russia's military efforts, as the tsar rarely intervened or reversed the decisions of his generals. What really gave him the position of Supreme Commander-in-Chief was his personal responsibility for every military failure. It also put the Russian government in the hands of his ambitious and insidious wife Alexandra during a period of growing social and political crisis. The stench of corruption and incompetence in the imperial government began to spread among the population.

Devastation inside


The devastation of the war affected not only the soldiers at the front.

By the end of 1915, there were clear signs that the economy was crumbling under the unbearable pressure of wartime demands. There was a shortage of food and a rise in prices. Inflation eroded incomes at an alarmingly fast pace, and even items that could be afford were in short supply, especially in St. Petersburg, where remoteness from sources of supply and poor transport networks made matters worse.

Russia was further weakened economically due to the loss of Polish industrial and agricultural production. The conscription of millions of men led to a shortage of labor in peasant land holdings and, as a result, to a reduction in food production. A large number of peasants were also transferred to the industrial sector, which led to a small increase in production, but not enough to meet the military needs of Russia.

As a result, agricultural production fell sharply and the civilian population was forced to experience severe food shortages. The stores ran out of bread, sugar, meat and other products, and long queues lined up for what was left.

The outbreak of war in August 1914 initially served to suppress growing social and political protests by focusing hostilities against a common external enemy, but this false patriotic unity did not last long. As the war dragged on without end, the fog of patriotic intoxication began to dissipate from the minds of the people, as war weariness gradually began to take hold of the masses.

It was the wives of the workers who had to bear the heaviest burden. Working class women in St. Petersburg reportedly spent about forty hours a week shivering from the cold while queuing for food. To feed their hungry children, many were forced to resort to begging or prostitution.

Public morale and support for the war declined and people became more receptive to anti-war propaganda. On September 17, 1915, Alexei Kuropatkin, a former minister of war and commander of the grenadier corps, wrote:

The lower ranks began the war with enthusiasm; but now they were tired, and because of the constant retreat, they lost faith in victory.

Since mid-1915, the number of strikes has grown inexorably. Russia was preparing for revolutionary events.
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  1. -27
    17 October 2021 05: 41
    Although Russia was not ready for war in Europe, it still waged it very, very dignified, until the army began to decompose such rabble as the socialists ...

    Since tsarist Russia was in a great debt to French finance capital, there could be no question of refusing to comply with the request of Paris.

    After all, no one refused to pay the debt, why was it necessary to join the war?
    PS Find yourself in the place of Nicholas II comrade. Stalin, then Russia would not have entered into any war. We would sell them raw materials, weapons and food and watch from the Winter Palace rubbing our hands as our enemies kill each other! And the straits would have been taken away - Europe, exhausted from the war, would have turned a blind eye to this ...
    1. +19
      17 October 2021 06: 01
      Quote: Xlor
      Although Russia was not ready for a war in Europe, it still waged it very, very dignified

      While fighting the Turks and Austrians, but as soon as the Germans transferred significant forces from their Western Front, the Russian army began to suffer defeat.
      Quote: Xlor
      the army did not begin to decompose such rabble as the socialists ...
      The crowned rabble "ruled" the country. Hence the result.
      Quote: Xlor
      Find yourself in the place of Nicholas II Comrade Stalin, then Russia would not have entered into any war.
      God knows, with Stalin at the head, Russia would be completely different.
      1. +7
        17 October 2021 06: 18
        Congenital weakness of the Russian army
        Epitaph for Suvorov? Kutuzov? Rumyantsev? Orlov? Or is it the weakness of tsarism?
        1. +6
          17 October 2021 06: 22
          Quote from Uncle Lee
          Epitaph for Suvorov? Kutuzov? Rumyantsev? Orlov? Or is it the weakness of tsarism?

          Rather, the second.
          But for every capable officer in the Russian army, there were a dozen idle, cowardly, and inept aristocrats promoted to leadership positions through favoritism and family ties.
          1. +11
            17 October 2021 06: 25
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            thanks to favoritism and family ties.

            This applies not only to tsarism, but also to any other formation! Is it better now?
            1. +14
              17 October 2021 06: 28
              Quote from Uncle Lee
              This applies not only to tsarism, but also to any other formation!

              At least before Khrushchev in the USSR, that favoritism, that family ties decided little, except for the increased likelihood of sitting down with the promoter at the same time. laughing
              1. -4
                17 October 2021 18: 02
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                At least before Khrushchev in the USSR, that favoritism, that family ties did not solve much

                But, nevertheless, these phenomena took place.
                1. +4
                  18 October 2021 10: 44
                  Something similar awaits the Russian Federation if we get involved in another military adventure. For which, judging by the articles, they are trying to prepare public opinion.
              2. 0
                22 December 2021 16: 27
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                At least before Khrushchev in the USSR that favoritism, that family ties decided little, except for the increased likelihood of sitting down with the promoter

                Great fantasies. All the Kaganovich brothers were well accommodated. Mikhail Kaganovich's son-in-law - Silvansky - almost got his design bureau. Anastas Mikoyan's brother got his design bureau. Etc...
                1. -1
                  23 December 2021 04: 04
                  Quote: Ol Willy
                  All the Kaganovich brothers were well accommodated.
                  So good that one shot himself. I’ve already settled down.

                  Quote: Ol Willy
                  Mikhail Kaganovich's son-in-law - Silvansky - almost got his design bureau.
                  And what is the continuation? Do not remind?


                  Quote: Ol Willy
                  Anastas Mikoyan's brother got his design bureau. Etc...

                  Maybe because he was not the worst designer? And whose brother is Gurevich?
                  And Mikoyan, who died at Stalingrad, on his own?
                  1. 0
                    23 December 2021 16: 36
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    So good that one shot himself. I’ve already settled down.

                    Shot himself - not repressed. I propose to compare the fate of the wife of M. Kaganovich and Jan Gamarnik - who also shot himself.
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    And what is the continuation? Do not remind?

                    For the waste of public funds on the useless I-220, he did not receive an answer. He was tried for damage to state property, but then he successfully worked in the KB with Korolev.

                    Oh, this irony! Korolev for the embezzlement of 120 thousand got on the first sheet of the execution list, and Silvansky was absolutely nothing for embezzlement.
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Maybe because he was not the worst designer? And whose brother is Gurevich?

                    Gurevich was just an intelligent designer, but he was only Mikoyan's deputy.

                    In October 1939, in the absence of Polikarpov himself (he was on a business trip in Germany), the director of the serial plant No. 1 named after Aviakhima Pavel Andreevich Voronin and Chief Engineer Pyotr Vasilyevich Dementyev (future Minister of Aviation Industry), by order of the plant, separated from the Polikarpov Design Bureau some of the divisions (KB-1 and KB-2 - both for fighters) of the best designers (including Mikhail Gurevich) and 8 December 1939, a new Experimental Design Department was organized, and in fact - a new Design Bureau. The head of OKO-1 was appointed a young military representative of this plant Artem Ivanovich Mikoyan (1905-1970) - the brother of one of Stalin's associates - Anastas Mikoyan. M.I. were appointed as his deputies. Gurevich and V.A. Romodin, and Polikarpov's airplane project was handed over to the department. The group of leading employees of OKO-1 included A.I. Mikoyan, M.I. Gurevich, V.A. Romodin, N. 3. Matyuk, N.I. Andrianov, Ya. I. Seletsky, A.G. Brunov, D.N. Kurguzov et al. Mikoyan was a second-tier person who had not shown himself in anything until that time. Voronin, putting him forward, killed two birds with one stone: weakened the position of Polikarpov and received the support of Anastas Mikoyan himself. This step turned out to be correct. Already in January 1940, Voronin became Deputy Minister of the Aviation Industry. In OKO-1, by hook or by crook, they lured a significant part of the employees of the Polikarpov Design Bureau.


                    Is it okay that Artyom Mikoyan defended his diploma only at the end of 1937? And two years later - already its own design bureau. Hmm.
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    And Mikoyan, who died at Stalingrad, on his own?

                    Three junior Mikoyans served in aviation. Also Vasily Stalin, Leonid Khrushchev, Timur Frunze. Stalin's falcons are prestigious
                    1. 0
                      24 December 2021 11: 52
                      Quote: Ol Willy
                      Shot himself - not repressed.

                      You should be at least a little puzzled by the question. And then they remembered Gamarnik, but was it from a great mind? Gamarnik shot himself before his probable arrest, but Kaganovich out of boredom or what? He was also faced with serious charges. And the relationship with Lazarus did not help, no matter what you wrote there about nepotism.

                      Quote: Ol Willy
                      For the waste of public funds on the useless I-220, he did not receive an answer. He was tried for damage to state property, but then he successfully worked in the KB with Korolev.
                      Did he build the plane? Built. Was the plane flying? He flew. What to judge for? Soviet designers have a lot of unsuccessful planes, no one was imprisoned for unsuccessful planes. And he was a son-in-law "according to some sources."

                      Quote: Ol Willy
                      Oh, this irony! Korolev for the embezzlement of 120 thousand got on the first sheet of the execution list, and Silvansky was absolutely nothing for embezzlement.
                      No lies, Korolev was punished for the wild loss of time and money in the design of a LEGALLY inoperative anti-aircraft missile. Which could not be guided by the means of that time (and Korolev knew about this) and, what is worse (for Korolev), because of the frankly weak engine, she could not even physically finish off the targets.


                      Quote: Ol Willy
                      Is it okay that Artyom Mikoyan defended his diploma only at the end of 1937? And two years later - already its own design bureau. Hmm.
                      Are you able to match then own strings?
                      Quote: Ol Willy
                      Anastas Mikoyan's brother got his design bureau
                      And then this one:

                      Quote: Ol Willy
                      Voronin, putting him forward, killed two birds with one stone: weakened the position of Polikarpov and received the support of Anastas Mikoyan himself.


                      It was a certain Voronin who was in advance, not Mikoyans.



                      Quote: Ol Willy
                      Three junior Mikoyans served in aviation. Also Vasily Stalin, Leonid Khrushchev, Timur Frunze. Stalin's falcons are prestigious

                      Of course, of course Stalin's falcons, all the cases, well, who is Yakov Dzhugashvili? Why remember him?

                      Quote: Ol Willy
                      And by the way, how did Vasily Stalin become a colonel at the age of 21, and a major general at 25?

                      twice Hero of the Soviet Union Vitaly Popkov later recalled: “My father was strict with him, only for the 12th time he signed an order on conferring the rank of general on his son, he added it at the end of the list. Before that, I always crossed out ”[20].
                      1. 0
                        24 December 2021 12: 56
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        You should be at least a little puzzled by the question. And then they remembered Gamarnik, but was it from a great mind? Gamarnik shot himself before his probable arrest, but Kaganovich out of boredom or what? He was also faced with serious charges. And the relationship with Lazarus did not help, no matter what you wrote there about nepotism.

                        Gamarnik shot himself before being arrested, right? Charges were brought against M. Kaganovich, so the arrest was not far off too? But why was Gamarnik's wife, in pursuit of her husband, still repressed, while there was nothing with the family of M. Kaganovich?
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Was the plane flying? He flew.

                        One flight at an altitude of 200m. Read what Shakhurin (if I remember correctly) recommended to do with Silvansky and his plane.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        No lies, Korolev was punished for the wild loss of time and money in the design of a LEGALLY inoperative anti-aircraft missile. Which could not be guided by the means of that time (and Korolev knew about this) and, what is worse (for Korolev), because of the frankly weak engine, she could not even physically finish off the targets.

                        That is, Korolev knew that his promising development - LEGALLY (!) Inoperable, but no one knew that the Sylvanian's lack of aircraft was a waste of funds, although aviation was a much more mastered business.
                        Also, read the verdict. Korolev was arrested as a saboteur and a member of the Trotskyist organization. It says little about missiles.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Of course, of course Stalin's falcons, all the cases, well, who is Yakov Dzhugashvili? Why remember him?

                        Jacob is the exception that proves the rule. Name me another of the children of prominent party leaders who served in the infantry or artillery.

                        “The father was strict with him, only for the 12th time he signed an order on conferring the rank of general on his son, he himself added it at the end of the list. Before that I always crossed out "

                        Yes - strict. Otherwise, Vasily could become a general at 22.

                        And generally speaking. four years passed between the colonel and Major General Stalin. That is, every year Vasily was nominated for general three times?
                      2. 0
                        24 December 2021 16: 03
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        But why was Gamarnik's wife, in pursuit of her husband, still repressed, while there was nothing with the family of M. Kaganovich?
                        Is this an argument like that? Many people were not repressed after their spouse. At least based on the time of the alleged arrest or the degree of involvement. Vavilov is the closest example of this. So you don't have to pull "examples" by the ears.

                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        One flight at an altitude of 200m. Read what Shakhurin (if I remember correctly) recommended to do with Silvansky and his plane.
                        For unsuccessful planes, they were not planted. And what did you recommend, so what did you not do? M. Kaganovich was no longer alive, and Lazar did not stand up for his brother, that he did not understand who, not even the fact that his brother's son-in-law. So you drag in without understanding what.

                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        but no one knew that the lack of Sylvanian aircraft was a waste of funds, although aviation was a much more mastered business.
                        Oh, of course, you can immediately see that the plane won't fly. Yet they can, as you, determine by eye. And nothing that the plane looks like a completely successful fighter and even had Polikarpov's drawings based on it.

                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        Also, read the verdict. Korolev was arrested as a saboteur and a member of the Trotskyist organization. It says little about missiles.
                        You are making a complete fool of yourself, because a third of the indictment is about missiles:

                        In 1936, he led the development of a powder winged torpedo; knowing in advance that the main parts of this torpedo — devices with photocells — for controlling a torpedo and aiming it at a target cannot be manufactured by the central laboratory of the 23 wire communication, Korolev worked hard to develop the missile part of this torpedo in 2 versions in order to load the institute with unnecessary work .

                        https://historical-fact.livejournal.com/146915.html


                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        Jacob is the exception that proves the rule. Name me another of the children of prominent party leaders who served in the infantry or artillery.

                        Those. the fact that one of the TWO sons of Stalin was an artilleryman does not bother you? The fact that Stalin's adopted son was an artilleryman is also garbage, I have to look for something else for you, how wonderful. But first find the children of the grand dukes and tsarist ministers in the artillery and infantry during the First World War.

                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        Yes - strict. Otherwise, Vasily could become a general at 22.
                        Well, after all, he became at 29 years old, like Rychagov, Kravchenko or Denisov and Khryukin at 30.

                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        And generally speaking. four years passed between the colonel and Major General Stalin. That is, every year Vasily was nominated for general three times?
                        The fact that three years were spent on the war does not bother you. Well, of course, such trifles can embarrass a person who believes that in the Russian army, almost one and a half million unarmed soldiers before the World War is the norm.
                      3. +1
                        25 December 2021 13: 17
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Is this an argument like that? Many people were not repressed after their spouse. At least based on the time of the alleged arrest or the degree of involvement. Vavilov is the closest example of this. So you don't have to pull "examples" by the ears.

                        The concept of CSIR was then fully present. Yuri Vavilov, by the way, received the status of the ChSIR.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        For unsuccessful planes, they were not planted.

                        Unfortunately, the verdict for Konstantin Kalinin is not available, otherwise they would have talked.

                        But still, you can see what Polikarpov, Grigorovich, Tupolev, and others were tried for. Something about sabotage, espionage and counter. Probably also related to airplanes
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        M. Kaganovich was no longer alive, and Lazar did not stand up for his brother, that he did not understand who, not even the fact that his brother's son-in-law. So you drag in without understanding what.

                        M. Kaganovich shot himself in the summer of 1941, and the saga with the I-220 ended in 1940.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Those. the fact that one of the TWO sons of Stalin was an artilleryman does not bother you?

                        Tell Yasha from me that he acted like a bully and a blackmailer, with whom I have nothing and cannot have anything else to do. Let him live where he wants and with whom he wants

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        But first find the children of the grand dukes and tsarist ministers in the artillery and infantry during the First World War.

                        The dates are few. But for example:
                        Svyatopolk-Mirsky, Dmitry, son of a former Minister of Internal Affairs, mobilized in 1914
                        Nikolai Maklakov, Minister of Internal Affairs in 1912-1915, all three sons served, two in the cavalry, one as a volunteer in the n-th branch of the army
                        Boris Timashev, son of the Minister of Trade, Second Lieutenant of the Life Guards of the 2nd Artillery Brigade, Knight of St. George.

                        And so on
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        After all, I became at the age of 29

                        29 is a lieutenant general. Major General already at 25.

                        And to compare with Levers ... Levers GSS not just received.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Oh, of course, you can immediately see that the plane won't fly. Yet they can, as you, determine by eye. And nothing that the plane looks like a completely successful fighter and even had Polikarpov's drawings based on it.

                        That's the point. Silvansky took the quite successful initial concept of Polikarpov and began to develop it - as did many, including Polikarpov himself. Only because of his skill level, this very "development" was a complete anecdote. The test pilots themselves (not me, yes) said that it was impossible to fly on this.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        You are making a complete fool of yourself, because a third of the indictment is about missiles:

                        Third - there are three suggestions.

                        But do you generally understand how absurd it all sounds from the point of view of promising developments? For a year (!) - I have not developed a fully functioning rocket. Having spent as much as 120 thousand rubles. And in order to improve the process, we disperse all the design bureaus to hell, and the engineers - at the training grounds and at the ITLs. And then they had to send German missilemen to KB-1, who, for some reason, had experience in developing such systems.
                      4. 0
                        25 December 2021 19: 03
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        Yuri Vavilov, by the way, received the status of the ChSIR.

                        Is he Vavilov's wife? No, what? So about the spouses in general it is a speech, and Vavilov's wife was not repressed.

                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        Unfortunately, the verdict for Konstantin Kalinin is not available, otherwise they would have talked.
                        It's very funny, you there something about "a couple of words about missiles" lied in the Korolev accusation, you might think that something was better with Kalinin.

                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        Something about sabotage, espionage and counter. Probably also related to airplanes
                        It's a pity that nothing can be braided, right?

                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        M. Kaganovich shot himself in the summer of 1941, and the saga with the I-220 ended in 1940.
                        But only then Shakhurin was already the People's Commissar of the aviation industry.



                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        Svyatopolk-Mirsky, Dmitry, son of a former Minister of Internal Affairs, mobilized in 1914
                        Nikolai Maklakov, Minister of Internal Affairs in 1912-1915, all three sons served, two in the cavalry, one as a volunteer in the n-th branch of the army
                        Boris Timashev, son of the Minister of Trade, Second Lieutenant of the Life Guards of the 2nd Artillery Brigade, Knight of St. George.

                        And so on

                        Actually, I wrote "artillery and infantry", and the cavalry can quite easily be considered an analogue of fighter aviation in prestige. Anyway.
                        Senior Lieutenant of the Administrative Service Anatoly Lunacharsky (22 years old). Killed September 12, 1943 during the landing at Novorossiysk
                        Lieutenant Nikolai Shcherbakov (K. Voroshilov's nephew), having completed an accelerated course at an artillery school in 1943, went to the front and died at the end of the war.
                        Artashes (Arkady) Khanferyants (the younger brother of Air Marshal S. Khudyakov), after graduating from the institute with the rank of political instructor, participated in the Great Patriotic War and disappeared without a trace in November 1941.

                        These are the dead, who are being searched for by the search very quickly, but there is also "so on".

                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        29 is a lieutenant general. Major General already at 25.
                        In general, yes, I somehow missed it, but you missed that V. Stalin commanded for two years, and successfully, a division, with the rank of colonel, in fact, and this is a general's position! And somehow it is completely indecent to appoint a colonel as a corps commander. laughing


                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        That's the point. Silvansky took the quite successful initial concept of Polikarpov and began to develop it - as did many, including Polikarpov himself.
                        What is the essence of that? What did you write? You put it that way that the I-220 was all obviously a failure, but because of Kaganovich they turned a blind eye to this:
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        but no one knew that the lack of Sylvanian aircraft was a waste of funds, although aviation was a much more mastered business.
                        And then suddenly "successful initial concept". It's a shame, dear colleague.

                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        Third - there are three suggestions.
                        Did I just give the link? There are not a hundred of these proposals in the accusation. Or have you counted the names of the accusers too ?! laughing


                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        But do you generally understand how absurd it all sounds from the point of view of promising developments? For a year (!) - I have not developed a fully functioning rocket. Having spent as much as 120 thousand rubles. And to
                        For you words "knowing in advance that the main parts of this torpedo - devices with photocells - for controlling the torpedo and aiming it at the target, cannot be manufactured the central wire communications laboratory "don't talk about anything at all, or don't you give a damn about them?"
                        Korolev, at the expense of the state, built and tested under the guise of creating an anti-aircraft rocket liquid-propellant engine, if that tells you anything. Moreover, this engine could not raise the sane weight to the heights of even the then bombers, and the GOS, if you can call it that, was not even particularly designed for an anti-aircraft missile.
                        The rocket is made around the engine and the seeker, if you don't understand this, then what can you even write about Korolev?
                        Although you wrote about the shooter, you cannot add simple numbers. laughing
                      5. 0
                        26 December 2021 23: 36
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        For you, the words "knowing in advance that the main parts of this torpedo - devices with photocells - for controlling the torpedo and aiming it at the target, cannot be made by the central laboratory of wire communications" do not mean anything at all, or do you give a damn about them?

                        The control system, by the way, was made by subcontractors, can we ask them?
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        The rocket is made around the engine and the seeker, if you don't understand this, then what can you even write about Korolev?

                        Engine yes, GOS - seriously? Back in the 1930s? Do S-25 missiles have a seeker? At the S-75? And what about the S-125?
                        SAM in general, as such, missiles with seeker received quite late and then not as a standard.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        And then suddenly "successful initial concept". It's a shame, dear colleague.

                        Which is Polikarpova. And on which many designers have worked.

                        I don't know why you like this Sylvanian so much that you defend him so stubbornly.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        In general, yes, I somehow missed it, but you missed that V. Stalin commanded for two years, and successfully, a division, with the rank of colonel, in fact, and this is a general's position! And somehow it is completely indecent to appoint a colonel as a corps commander.

                        In 1941, about half of the divisions were under the command of colonels.
                      6. 0
                        27 December 2021 06: 40
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        The control system, by the way, was made by subcontractors, can we ask them?
                        But the rocket continued to be made, with an absent control system and an openly unusable engine, it was not only Korolev who made it, a whole team under his leadership!

                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        Engine yes, GOS - seriously? Back in the 1930s? Do S-25 missiles have a seeker? At the S-75? And what about the S-125?
                        Yes, RK management and GOS are not the same thing, but in this issue, the issue of unsuitability, and this is obviously not fundamental. And yet, it is the Korolevskoe proposal that is more suitable for the definition of the GOS, because the rocket had to be guided in the searchlight beam, without any commands. Obviously unsuitable in bad weather and unsuitable during the day.
                        And yet, with all due respect to the merits of Korolev and to his mind, I believe that his waste of time on the liquid-propellant engine before the war was empty and, moreover, prevented the development of the solid-fuel direction. NURS "Katyusha" and attack aircraft is not his merit.


                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        Which is Polikarpova. And on which many designers have worked.
                        But you wrote about its deliberate unsuitability. I will not hesitate to remind you!
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        That is, Korolev knew that his promising development was LEGALLY (!) Inoperable, but no one knew that the Sylvanian's lack of aircraft was a waste of money, although aviation was much more mastered.



                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        I don't know why you like this Sylvanian so much that you defend him so stubbornly.
                        I do not like the fact that you deduce Silvansky solely as Kaganovich's protege.

                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        In 1941, about half of the divisions were under the command of colonels.

                        And they stayed in this rank for two years? Yes, at least one year? And the other half?


                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        29 is a lieutenant general. Major General already at 25.

                        By the way, both Rychagov and Kravchenko are also lieutenant generals at 29, as it turns out.


                        Quote: Ol Willy

                        And to compare with Levers ... Levers GSS not just received.
                        And what is so outstanding that Lever is committed? Well, he shot down, and Stalin shot down, well, he commanded well, and Stalin did good command. And what is more interesting, it was Rychagov who was Stalin's protege, and not Stalin at all, that's such a twist.

                        I completely forgot, haven't found yet "and so on" for the sons of princes and ministers in the infantry and artillery? And then there is also such an unpleasant thing, for you, as the fact that for the most part the then "elite" were nobles, as if obliged to be military.
                      7. 0
                        27 December 2021 09: 31
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        And yet, with all due respect to the merits of Korolev and to his mind, I believe that his waste of time on the liquid-propellant engine before the war was empty and, moreover, prevented the development of the solid-fuel direction.

                        I somehow do not say that Korolev's "torpedo" was a wunderwolf. As the saying goes, a negative result is also a result, as was the case with projects 212 and 216. It is logical to close project 301 because it has no prospects. It is also logical to punish the guilty with the ruble. It is imperative to draw conclusions. And to send a designer to a military medical institution as a Trotskyist is insanity.

                        By the way, are you not embarrassed that the "torpedo" is called "gunpowder" in the sentence to Korolev? There was a liquid-fuel rocket engine running on kerosene! Who were the experts doing the analysis?

                        If the "management" had an interest and understanding of the project, first of all, the project of a missile with such a small warhead and antiaircraft direction would be closed in favor of a larger missile with a larger warhead; aiming on a spotlight or TV would be considered science fiction in favor of more affordable radio control. And from there it is not far from something like Henschel 293.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        prevented the development of the solid fuel direction. NURS "Katyusha" and attack aircraft is not his merit.

                        How did his project with funding of 120 thousand rubles, as by the verdict, interfere with the development of NURS? NURSs have been created quite successfully.

                        "ANSWERS OF THE TECHNICAL EXAMINATION IN THE CASE OF AG KOSTIKOV FROM APRIL 19, 1944.
                        The composition of the examination of the commission.
                        Chairman, Alexander Vasilievich Chesalov, Honored Worker of Science and Technology, Professor, Candidate of Technical Sciences, Head of the Flight Technical Institute ...
                        Members: Khristianovich Sergey Alekseevich, Academician, Head of Laboratory No. 2 of TsAGI 4; Ushakov Konstantin Andreevich, Honored Worker of Science and Technology, Professor, Doctor of Technical Sciences, Head of Department No. 3, Laboratory No. 1 of TsAGI; Levin Lev Mikhailovich, deputy head of the weapons department of laboratory No. 2 of TsAGI ...
                        QUESTION four: are KOSTIKOV, GVAY AND ABORENKOV the authors of M-8, M-13 and launching devices for them?
                        ANSWER: Kostikov, Gwai and Aborenkov cannot be considered the authors of M-8, M-13 and launching devices for them.
                        The M-8 projectile differs in minor modifications from the PC-82 projectile, developed at NII-3 in the period 1934-1937.
                        The M-13 projectile is a development of the RS-132 projectile, developed at NII-3 in 1937-1938.
                        Kostikov, Gwai and Aborenkov had nothing to do with the development of the RS-82 and RS-132 shells, which were an original design.

                        The rationality of installing PC launchers on light combat vehicles, in particular on motor vehicles, is indicated, for example, in the book "Rockets, their design and use" (G.E. LANHEMAK and V.P. ONTI GLUSHKO, 1935, p. 119 ).
                        Thus, the idea of ​​creating a machine installation for conducting massive fire with rockets cannot be attributed to Kostikov, Guay and Aborenkov ...
                        Signed by: Chesalov, Khristianovich, Ushakov, Levin. "


                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        But you wrote about its deliberate unsuitability. I will not hesitate to remind you!

                        On September 25, the plane made its first run, which was interrupted due to the shock vibrations of the propeller-driven group during the alignment of the aircraft into the flight line. After stopping and inspecting the propeller, torn damage to the ends of the blades was found, which, when the landing gear was fully compressed, "plowed" a number of soil sections in great detail. There was a joker who advised to dig a ditch for the propeller along the runway ... The general laughter had a devastating effect on the chief. There was no other propeller, and the annoyed Silvansky did not find anything better than to cut off 100 mm from the ends of the blades. "Cutting" was done in the assembly shop.

                        During the repair process, the blinds were removed from the engine hood so that the engine would not overheat in the future. On October 5, after a night repair, the device was tested in ground evolutions with scanty refueling (100 kg). In one of the next days I.S.Baranov tried to take off. The disabled plane, prepared for the start, roared harshly with its engine, ran back and forth around the airfield for a long time and even started to smoke, but it did not get off the ground. This fact was hidden from the leadership of the industry and the command of the Air Force, since the military representative of the plant was not at the "usual" taxiing.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Well, he shot down, and Stalin shot down,

                        Twenty-seven sorties in the entire war and two victories.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Stalin was a good leader.

                        His subordinates later remembered him as a brave, but too risky pilot. There were situations when, due to his rash actions, the officers had to save their commander in battle, but Vasily himself, whenever possible, covered his comrades from the enemy in the sky. He graduated from service in 1943 after an explosion occurred with his participation during the jamming of fish, during which people died. Disciplinary action was imposed on him, and the regiment commander was transferred to serve as an aerobatics instructor.

                        In 1952, at the May Day demonstration, it was he who gave the order to conduct a demonstration flight of fighters during bad weather. Air vehicles passed in discordant rows, and two of them crashed on landing. In addition, he began to appear drunk at headquarters meetings more and more often. This was enough to remove all powers from Vasily Iosifovich.


                        During the war, several times he received official punishments from his father in the service, he was demoted for various offenses (for example, he organized fishing with the use of aviation rockets, as a result of which the armament engineer of his regiment died, and one of the best pilots was wounded and lost forever the ability to fly) and increased again [
                      8. 0
                        27 December 2021 17: 08
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        I somehow do not say that Korolev's "torpedo" was a wunderwolf.
                        This is an example a deliberate waste of energy and means, in contrast to the Sylvanian fighter, the failure of which was not at all obvious.

                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        It is imperative to draw conclusions. And to send a designer to a military medical institution as a Trotskyist is insanity.
                        And what, they shot? Obviously not. 10 years under the sentence is not a firing squad.
                        And "Trotskyism" is, unfortunately, a waste of time.

                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        By the way, are you not embarrassed that the "torpedo" is called "gunpowder" in the sentence to Korolev? There was a liquid-fuel rocket engine running on kerosene! Who were the experts doing the analysis?
                        Not at all. The fact is that two anti-aircraft missiles were developed: 217/1 and 217/2. Korolev worked on the first one with an airplane layout and a liquid-propellant engine, and assigned a rocket with a TTD and a rocket scheme to another employee. Both types had to have the same control / guidance system. And what Korolev thought about with his passion for rocket planes and with a rocket engine that was frankly weak at that time, it is hardly possible to find out.

                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        And from there it is not far from something like Henschel 293.
                        And they planned to direct the 301st missile. Only marasmus with a liquid propellant engine ruined it.


                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        How did his project with funding of 120 thousand rubles, as by the verdict, interfere with the development of NURS? NURSs have been created quite successfully.
                        120 thousand do not give you peace of mind? What kind of money is that? This is money that was spent specifically on the construction and testing of four missiles of two types, without guidance systems, just to launch.

                        As a result of this test, four torpedoes built by Korolyov showed their complete unsuitability, which caused damage to the state in the amount of 120 rubles
                        That is, only one episode was specifically assessed, where there was most likely a specific estimate. But there are also other episodes, and everywhere the work is in vain, on the Korolev's passion for rocket planes of a whole team of scientists and engineers. And this work in vain did not allow throwing forces on missiles with TTD, namely NURS. What was in the war is not squalor, of course, but it is far from the German developments of the NURS mid-end of the war.



                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        There was no other propeller, and the annoyed Silvansky did not find anything better than to cut off 100 mm from the ends of the blades.

                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        There was no other propeller, and the annoyed Silvansky did not find anything better than to cut off 100 mm from the ends of the blades.
                        Does this prove that the I-220 fighter was already unsuccessful for everyone in the drawings, as you argued?


                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        Twenty-seven sorties in the entire war and two victories.

                        From February 1943 - commander of the 32nd Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment (Lyubertsy airfield) of the 210th Fighter Aviation Division, then on the North-Western Front. He was wounded in the leg.

                        Vasily Stalin was in command of the regiment diligently, listening to us, more experienced pilots. As a regiment commander, he could, at his discretion, make combat missions as part of any squadron, but most often for some reason he flew with mine. During February - March 1943, we shot down a dozen enemy aircraft. With Vasily's participation - three. Moreover, it should be noted that the first, as a rule, was attacked by Vasily, after these attacks the planes lost control, and we then finished them off. According to our flight laws, Vasily could have counted them as shot down personally, but he considered them shot down in a group. I once told him about it, but he waved his hand and threw out shortly: "Don't!"
                        - Hero of the Soviet Union S. F. Dolgushin. [3]

                        In the literature, data on the victories of V. I. Stalin are contradictory: according to some sources, he shot down 5 [8] enemy aircraft, according to others only 3, on the third 2 personally and 3 in a group. He was awarded two Orders of the Red Banner, the Orders of Suvorov II degree and Alexander Nevsky.



                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        His subordinates later remembered him as a brave, but too risky pilot. There were situations when, due to his rash actions, officers had to save their commander in battle, but
                        Quotes can be fired on for a long time, but a source who writes this:
                        According to the recollections of people close to Stalin's family, the leader was warned about this plane crash by Wolf Messing himself, with whom Joseph Vissarionovich often spoke. Vasily's flight on this flight was immediately canceled, as a result of which he survived. This incident was kept quiet for a long time, until the 1990s.

                        so-so source. The awards performances and personal memories of colleagues are more serious sources.
                      9. +1
                        29 December 2021 08: 56
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        And what Korolev thought about with his passion for rocket planes and with a rocket engine that was frankly weak at that time, it is hardly possible to find out.

                        With an increase in the mass of the rocket - for a new project - it was possible to use LRE Dushkin or Yakaitis, for example
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        And what, they shot? Obviously not. 10 years under the sentence is not a firing squad.

                        They were not shot, unlike Langemak and Kleimenov. And for a couple of years in Kolyma this is also not a resort, anything can happen.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Not at all. The fact is that two anti-aircraft missiles were developed: 217/1 and 217/2. Korolev worked on the first one with an airplane layout and a liquid-propellant engine, and assigned a rocket with a TTD and a rocket scheme to another employee. Both types had to have the same control / guidance system. And what Korolev thought about with his passion for rocket planes and with a rocket engine that was frankly weak at that time, it is hardly possible to find out.

                        Now I don’t understand anything. The verdict says about a powder rocket - Korolev worked on rockets with LPRE. In addition, the verdict does not say for which particular rocket Korolev received the article - for 217 or for 301? Judging by the "four flights", it was 301
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        And they planned to direct the 301st missile. Only marasmus with a liquid propellant engine ruined it.

                        The 293 LPRE gave thrust for only ten seconds, so a weak engine for an air-to-surface missile is not such a problem.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        And this work in vain did not allow throwing forces on missiles with TTD, namely NURS. What was in the war is not squalor, of course, but it is far from the German developments of the NURS mid-end of the war.

                        What do you mean "did not give"? The main NURSs of the spacecraft were developed in the second half of the thirties in parallel to Korolev's projects. Maybe the development of NURSs slowed down because their main developers were sent to completely different places?


                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Does this prove that the I-220 fighter was already unsuccessful for everyone in the drawings, as you argued?

                        I would also note the vicious practice of distributing Polikarpov's projects to the right and left. The same MiG-3 is the cheapest and most technologically advanced fighter of the pre-war troika to manufacture, and the most advanced - but also least of all proved to be in use.
                        The Polikarpov I-180 and I-185 ruined the problems with the production of new engines and the intervention of Yakovlev, while the I-220 already at the design stage required a complete redesign of the wing and engine compartment, for which Silvansky had no qualifications.
                      10. +1
                        25 December 2021 13: 32
                        Let's remember the BI-1 fighter. With an afterthought - it is obvious that the development is futile. They also ruined the pilot. However, after the disaster, an interesting thing became clear - that an airplane with a straight wing on the pre-sound pulls into a dive. Bereznyak and Isaev did a lot of good later, but they could have been planted too - for waste, because a preliminary series of 30 aircraft had already been laid and military trials were planned
                      11. 0
                        25 December 2021 13: 37
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        You are making a complete fool of yourself, because a third of the indictment is about missiles:

                        since 1935, a member of the Trotskyist sabotage organization, on whose instructions he carried out criminal work at NII-3 to disrupt the development and commissioning of the Red Army of new types of weapons

                        In 1937, when developing the side compartment of a torpedo (winged), he made a sabotage calculation, as a result of which research work on the creation of a torpedo was disrupted

                        And how was such a person allowed to design space rockets? How much sabotage of the country has he done already there? Chekist comrades overlooked, overlooked, it was necessary to shoot
                  2. 0
                    23 December 2021 16: 48
                    And by the way, how did Vasily Stalin become a colonel at the age of 21, and a major general at 25?
            2. +12
              17 October 2021 06: 35
              Quote from Uncle Lee
              Is it better now?

              What is happening "today" is beyond the framework of good and evil!
        2. +8
          17 October 2021 06: 52
          Quote from Uncle Lee
          Or is it the weakness of tsarism?

          This is the weakness and lack of will of Nicholas II himself. Just take and plunge the country into war on the side of those who were not Russia's bosom friends a priori. For what?
          In total, the losses amounted to about 350 people, as well as a huge amount of military equipment.

          From such numbers, it just throws in a fever. Putting hundreds of thousands of healthy men for the sake of a vile, rotten through and through regime ...
          Someone else will awaken the desire to "pity" Nikolashka?
          1. +4
            17 October 2021 08: 21
            Have your obsessed "Nyasha" Poklonskaya, mental retardation (or the greatest level of rottenness) is shown by how she snagged the Immortal Regiment with a portrait of Nikalashka. THE BOTTOM IS BROKEN.
            There is. Yours Peskov, who said "Our goal is the Russian empire of the times of Nicholas II" - that is, a backward economy, industry, science, two shamefully lost wars, three revolutions, civilian + intervention ... CLASS.
            There is. At your own Gundyaev.

            Well, further down the list. In short, I quote the Goblin "Every third person should be put to sleep"
            1. +12
              17 October 2021 08: 27
              Quote: Baron Pardus
              There is. At your Peskov

              You just start reproaching me that I kept Medvedev for so many years as prime minister ...
              1. +2
                17 October 2021 08: 43
                Sir, I didn't mean you personally. If I created such an impression with my message, then I ask you to forgive me. I didn't mean to offend or humiliate you at all. But I live in the US, a US citizen and a veteran of the American Army. Therefore, Peskov, and Poklonskaya, and Gundyaev, and the costumed clowns Kozlaki - they are not mine, they are yours.
                1. +12
                  17 October 2021 11: 23
                  But I live in the US, a US citizen and a veteran of the American Army. Therefore, and

                  You also have enough stocks. One Sabbath about the Civil War of the North and the South with a recent monument to hmm ... a drug addict says a lot about what. I agree with the description of Peskov, Nyasha and Gundyaev. But Peskov is just a talking head, what they put in will be repeated, Poklonskaya is a cunning lady, Gundyaev is just a businessman.
                  1. 0
                    18 October 2021 11: 10
                    We have so many shoals. And Biden increases them exponentially.
                2. +1
                  18 October 2021 10: 20
                  But I live in the US, a US citizen and a veteran of the American Army.

                  Oh, how, and tell us how the police departments were burned in the USA?
                  A veteran of the American army? This is the one from Afgan Drapala supporting cowards? You Draped like that too? What do you get your pension for?
                  1. +1
                    18 October 2021 11: 17
                    You obviously didn't serve at all. You do not understand that neither soldiers, nor sergeants, nor even COLONELS decide ANYTHING, Sir. Unfortunately, our Army is subject to civilian authorities. An order comes - to drop everything and evacuate in 24 hours. And no matter what the military thinks, no one asks them. Answer: "A political decision made at the highest level." You probably do not know that when our generals and colonels retire, they get a job as "consultants" in various lobbying and other firms. And to spoil relations with the powerful of this world, for the sake of harm to their career in the army and, most importantly AFTER THE ARMY, NOBODY WILL. EVERYTHING WILL NOT ACHIEVED ANYTHING. The President gave the order. Point. This is NOT negotiable. It's not HIM personally, the colonel or the general threw the helicopter. So the general doesn't care. He has an order, he covered his ass. He wrote a report saying, "We won't have time to withdraw the equipment," he was told to "quit" And he quit. Taxpayers will buy a new one, it is possible that the general has shares in this company and every helicopter ordered is his income. HIMSELF he covered, and for the rest, he sneeze. The army is a JOB and a CAREER for most officers and generals. As in corporate America, this trend started under Obama and is now on a HUGE scale. Up to the point that smart officers and sergeants are LEAVING from the army. And those who criticize the authorities - well, the colonel marines have clearly shown everyone what will happen to the brow who will say something. YOUR task in the army is to obey orders and cover YOURSELF. (this is with regard to the officers). NONE of the officers above the colonel, as a rule, is interested in NOTHING except his career in the army and AFTER it.
                    1. +4
                      18 October 2021 12: 57
                      You obviously didn't serve at all. You do not understand that neither soldiers, nor sergeants, nor even COLONELS decide ANYTHING, Sir.

                      Yes, yes, you are the only warrior here. A soldier of an army that is afraid to fight a serious enemy, and not a serious one either. A soldier of the army, which has a defense budget equal to the budget of everyone else, but which runs headlong from the farmers in slippers.
                      So the general doesn't care. He has an order, he covered his ass. He wrote a report saying, "We won't have time to withdraw the equipment," he was told to "quit" And he quit.

                      Well, what kind of government is it that issues such orders? And who is this general who "does not care"? If the general "does not care", then his subordinates and even more so, five times "do not care". And what then is this army? You are sitting on a Russian resource on which the majority absolutely "do not care" about Russia and its army.
                      And about the service - I did not leave my country for forty varieties of sausages and a fat ration. I served when salary was received every 4-5 months. The lieutenant's salary at that time was $ 49. And they did not serve for money. But you will not understand this. You dumped in order to amuse your belly. Amused?
                      1. +3
                        18 October 2021 15: 57
                        Quote: Okolotochny
                        Yes, yes, you are the only warrior here. A soldier of an army that is afraid to fight a serious enemy, and not a serious one either. A soldier of the army, which has a defense budget equal to the budget of everyone else, but which runs headlong from the farmers in slippers.

                        The army does not decide whether to continue the war or leave. This is the decision of the politicians. Which the army is obliged to fulfill, whatever it may be.
                        And to someone, and we should be well aware of this - it is enough to remember Khasavyurt-1996.
                        Quote: Okolotochny
                        Well, what kind of government is it that issues such orders? And who is this general who "does not care"?

                        Ordinary capitalist government. Which evaluates everything in terms of economic efficiency. From this point of view, Afghanistan is a toxic asset, and the removal of equipment from there, given the lack of safe land routes for this and the remoteness of the theater of operations, is economically unprofitable, since it will cost more than producing a new one.
                        Anyway, у king a lot of the president.
                      2. +1
                        19 October 2021 10: 58
                        And to someone, and we should be well aware of this - it is enough to remember Khasavyurt-1996.

                        Alexey, the example for Chechnya is not entirely successful, I know firsthand. Betrayal and army stupidity were at the highest level since the beginning of the campaign. Moreover, there is also a lack of money and everything connected with this - tactics, uniforms, equipment, weapons. So what? young boys gnawed, perished. They understood that the introduction of armored vehicles in columns into the city was up to stupidity. But they went. In 1996, there was a lot of things in Grozny - practically Grozny and the group of bandits were blocked, the count went on for days, in the city, the Ministry of Internal Affairs units in the bulk were kept. Then they left because of a direct order from above. Does it make sense to compare with Afghanistan in the summer of 2021? In 1999, when they promised that there would be no order to leave, what happened to Ichkeria ??? They took it out simply, multiplied it. For 20 years, who has been multiplied in Afghanistan? Weddings? And they themselves sat at the bases and were afraid to stick out. With such a budget and supply ??? I wrote to this American pensioner that it is not worth writing about the shortcomings of Russia when they themselves have such a VNO and a complete ... cucumber ass at the top.
                      3. +3
                        18 October 2021 17: 58
                        Have you ever been taught not to open a tin can of devils if you can't close it?
                        About "Afraid to fight a serious enemy." Not the United States, we note, pays tribute to Chechnya under the guise of "economic aid", Russia.
                        As for "To be afraid to fight", what are we with the DPR and LPR? And they are still being fired at by Bandera and killed by the Russians. Why is it that Russia does not protect RUSSIANS?
                        As for "To be afraid to fight", what about the reaction to Russophobia in the Central Asian and Caucasian "republics"? And NOTHING.

                        You are ABSOLUTELY correct in asking the question "What kind of government"? Weird. Not only are the puppets of banks and megacorporations, but also, recently, ideological fanatics have gone. Biden, for example, overturned a bunch of Trump decisions, whether they were right or wrong, "canceled because in spite of the Republicans." Naturally, the Republicans respond in kind. And any government protects the interests of those corporations that paid for them - "donated to the election campaign" or "They helped relatives find a good job as a freelance consultant", but not the interests of the country.

                        Are you sure that our departure from Afgan created problems for US? Then I have a bridge for you in Brooklyn for sale, inexpensive. Actually, he created problems for YOU. In your underbelly, there are a lot of aggressive inadequacies, armed to the teeth, and imbued with the ideology of Islamic fundamentalism, moreover, they are very close to your Islamic neighbors. And they will spread their crazy ideology further north. To Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, and other countries. You are sure that our departure is a "hasty decision". It seems to me that everything was done on purpose to kindle a fire under your ... seat. Considering that at the same time there is an increase in tension with Japan, and the situation in Ukraine is heating up, you are simply forced to rush between hotbeds of tension, and spend resources, and create unstable zones, zones of increased tension or controlled chaos around you. I am surprised that such a "das kampfen expert" as you do not see it, in general, this is all clear.

                        I will repeat it one more time. Our army, unfortunately, is very robustly hobbled by political cannons. And a lot is dictated by POLITICAL DECISIONS, which are taken in the interests of THIS PARTY. And the generals have long understood that the deep state cannot be broken, but it can help you earn and provide a career for you and your children and grandchildren. All that is required is to cover your ass and do what you are told. BUT you need to cover your ass, in which case you, or rather your career, will be sacrificed for their own. "Nothing personal, but you are better than me." Therefore, when the general has objections, he writes a report and sends it upstairs. QUIET, without making a noise. His "silence" is correctly understood by those who hold the career of a general in their hands, and his report, in which case, is an excuse for any responsibility. Like "I, as a professional military man, expressed my objections, but they did not listen to me and I followed the president's order."

                        You didn't leave because you didn't have the opportunity. As a rule, those who envy them are the ones who are most indignant at the address of emigrants and tore their shirt on their chest. I am reminded of the Goblin's quote from the movie "The Return of the Homeless". "And I drove your ticket to America to Pendalfa, and you will forever remain in this one ...." Well, you understand me.

                        As for my life in the USA, we ate enough shit. I repeat, we left when we were sure that the USSR would fall apart, but with the "nezalezhnoy" Ukraine, we had no luck at all. And in the USSR we did not have any special problems. And everything suited us there. Well, yes, in Ukraine, anti-Semitism is rabid, well, I would have entered a university not in Kiev, but in Novgorod, Vladimir, or Krasnoyarsk or Novosibirsk, and that's it. And if they had not destroyed the USSR, they would have sat where they sat. And they would be quite happy with life. I didn’t need clothes with leybochki in the union, so I don’t need them in the USA. And what we went through in emigration made me hate liberals and liberalism with the wildest hatred. especially since the same liberals launched the same entropic processes in the United States, and they need to be stopped at any cost and by any means, since the USSR is a vivid example of what happens if the liberals are not calmed down in time. And China, having rolled its liberals into the asphalt on Tianamin Square, is a vivid example of what needs to be done with liberals.
                      4. -3
                        19 October 2021 10: 43
                        Not the United States, we note, pays tribute to Chechnya under the guise of "economic aid", Russia.
                        Stop posting your nonsense. I have finished reading this and I will not read further nonsense.
                        Chechnya is a subsidized region of the Russian Federation, like most other subjects. They receive fixed assets like many other entities. Here on your fingers to explain?
                        Yeah, just like the RSFSR practically "fed" "the fraternal republics, which then simply left. As well as the CMEA countries with cheap energy resources at domestic prices. As well as the present-day Ukraine, which thinks that Russia is OBLIGED to transit gas through its territory. And the EU ?? "When practically all of Eastern Europe lives in DEBT at the expense of the old EU members" Is this not a tribute?
                        Are you talking about a tribute? And what about payments to African Americans "for slavery"? What's this?
                        You are a natural American military type Major Payne. Farewell.
            2. +2
              17 October 2021 09: 15
              Quote: Baron Pardus
              Well and further on the list.

              Perestroika, the collapse of everything and everyone.
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              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. +3
                  17 October 2021 11: 28
                  Moreover, I am a US citizen and a veteran of the American Army.

                  And have you forgotten the Russian language, veteran? Or did you learn it in captivity in Vietnam? As for the flags, although they are in Dill and in Russia are now collaborationist, the Sumerians seriously consider Bandera a hero, and Vlasov is still a traitor in our country. Something like this.
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                    1. +3
                      17 October 2021 12: 02
                      It is clear that he squeezed in the USA for a beautiful life (it was bad here), earned a green card while serving as a medic in the American Armed Forces. As for "what do you call the yacht" - well, after all, the traitor Vlasov is still, even at the official level.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. -1
                        17 October 2021 13: 00
                        Sniffed, snatched, either on his own or at the tip of his grandfather - this is the second time. Everything according to Gogol - there, in "Taras Bulba" Yankel says about Andria - "well, he feels good there, so he went to the Lyakham."
                      3. +3
                        18 October 2021 11: 23
                        The fish is looking for where it is deeper, and where the man is better. It was great for us in the USSR, and when it collapsed, it became clear what would happen here now. It didn't make sense to stay. Especially in Ukraine, with Bandera. I have NEVER had warm feelings for Ukraine. And given how intensely they poured over the Soviet past everywhere and everything, both in Russia and in Ukraine, there was simply no point in staying. Those who spit on their past are deprived of the future. In general, we wanted to stay in Austria or Germany, since everyone except me studied at the university / school and spoke German. Even a bit. But it turned out that the money ran out, and the green card was given only in the United States. Here we are.
                        Mom - a teacher of the Russian language and literature, and a Jewish Batu, the thin hand of the Kiev Chamber, and especially grandfather - a lieutenant colonel of the border troops with the Red Star "For the fight against Bandera gangs." Yeah, shas, ​​it would be very good for us in Ukraine. No, thanks. And Russia? Russia did not save much of its own in the Caucasian and Central Asian republics either. Something like this. Vovermee ran away. We did it right. So far, all that I see and read only confirms that we faded in time.
                      4. +1
                        18 October 2021 15: 57
                        But Donetsk and Luhansk did not flee and are now rebuffing the Bandera regime, which you, the Americans, are supplying. An American plane with military cargo for the Ukrainian Armed Forces landed in Borispol yesterday. In total, the United States has already supplied equipment and weapons for the Ukrainian Armed Forces worth $ 2 billion. So, sir, your hands are also covered in blood.
                      5. 0
                        18 October 2021 16: 50
                        Quote: Baron Pardus
                        Correctly done. So far all I see and read only confirms that we fled in time.

                        ===
                        ) you are still ahead, at least the trend is already visible. keep your suitcases ready.
                      6. +2
                        18 October 2021 18: 06
                        I know, I see. You are absolutely right. We have here the same liberalistic cancer that destroyed the USSR. And this cancer will burn out the same unwillingness of the authorities with a red-hot iron. Unlike the USSR, I have a weapon here. Unlike the USSR, I have like-minded people here. And when all sorts of subsimians staged looting with pogroms screaming "Black lives matter", we sat armed on the rooftops of our houses. We had walkie-talkies and in which region there were problems, those who had in the regions quietly went to where there could be problems. By the way, when there was a storm in Woodstock, Illinois, and BLM and ANTIFA began to threaten that they would set fire to houses with American flags hanging, we hung up the Confederate flag and "Welcome" posters on our houses. By the way, when BLM went to smash shops in Mexican districts in Cicero, they were quickly explained that it was not necessary to meddle in Mexican districts (7 corpses). And the Asians quickly organized themselves into self-defense units, as did the Indians and Sighi. As well as the Russians in Brighton Beach.
                        What will burst here - no questions. The only question is when and how seriously. And who will explode earlier - yours or ours. Even the liberals no longer exclude the disintegration of the United States into several parts. I financially support the Texas Nationalist Party, which is committed to the secession and complete independence of Texas. As soon as this happens, I go there :-).
                      7. +1
                        19 October 2021 15: 31
                        Quote: Baron Pardus
                        And the Asians quickly organized themselves into self-defense units, as did the Indians and Sighi.

                        Shaw, again Rooftop Koreans? wink
                      8. +1
                        19 October 2021 17: 46
                        Both Rooftop Koreans and storefront sikhs (This is when the Indians, during all this BLM looting, were preparing to defend their shops). If you have acquaintances in New York, ask them what the Russians did in Brighton Beach and what the Chinese did in China Town. I will say that the Black Academy and Antifae bypass Chicago and Miluoka Chinatown 10y Dear. Friendship of peoples flourishes and flourishes. In which case the colored people very quickly gather along ethnic lines, unfortunately among Whites in general, loyalty to their race is much less. For some reason, in the USA, you can be proud that you are a Negro (although it is unclear what Negroes invented besides 50 recipes for two-legged pork), that you are a "Descendant of the Aztecs" (who were such beasts that the Spaniards were terrified), but you cannot be proud of the fact that you are white - after all, this is "racism". You can be proud that you are an LGBT schizoid, but you cannot be proud that you are straight - this is "homophobia and transphobia". And then they wonder why normal people begin to radicalize and sympathize with the ultra-right. "A cloudless sky over all America" ​​:-)
                        Note that when in the United States anyone, even a little nix, what does everyone do? That's right - they sweep away from the shops WEAPONS AND AMMUNITION. Nobody has Illizius about his fellow citizens here .. Unless you still have some kind of illusion about internationalism.
                        It got to the point that when all this abomination with BLM and Antifa began, then many liberals were so scared ("why are we for sho?") That they also bought weapons. By the way, that white couple of lawyers in Kansas who went out to the lawn of their house with weapons, and so their specialization was "the protection of the civil rights of national minorities." Until now, prices for weapons in the United States are 1.5-2 times higher than they were one and a half - two years ago, for ammunition too. Freedom, capitalism, multiculturalism and tolerance.
                2. +2
                  17 October 2021 11: 33
                  Firstly, not Vlasov's, but the flag of the Russian empire, and secondly, it is good to pour out negative, as they wrote from across the ocean. And feel like a hero laughing
                  1. +1
                    17 October 2021 11: 56
                    Yulin explained everything about the flag a long time ago. Along with many others. Sorted it out many times. So your comment is past. The flag of the Russian Empire is Yellow White Black.
                3. 0
                  17 October 2021 12: 02
                  Quote: Baron Pardus
                  Above the Kremlin

                  The Russian flag, which appeared long before Vlasov.
                  1. +1
                    17 October 2021 12: 40
                    Read Isaev, Yulin and others, they will explain to you there. Besik is the flag of the merchant fleet, which was allowed to be raised by commoners on holidays. Learn history, Sir Ignoramus.
                    1. -3
                      17 October 2021 14: 04
                      Quote: Baron Pardus
                      Read Isaev, Yulin and others, they will explain to you there.

                      Specific links please. I'll read it, I'll take a look.
                    2. 0
                      18 October 2021 16: 00
                      Quote: Baron Pardus
                      Besik is the flag of the merchant fleet, which was allowed to be raised by commoners on holidays.

                      And the flag of the Russian Republic. The same eight-month.
                      And since we have no father-anperator (so far smile ), then the flag is republican.
                      1. 0
                        18 October 2021 18: 11
                        Sir, I have one of my many favorite cartoons. It is called "The Adventures of Captain Vrungel" (by the way, I also took out the book). So, there was such a song "As you name the yacht, so it will float." Whichever flag you choose, it will be. Why didn't you like the red flag? They were still in the Principality of Moscow. Don't like the hammer and sickle star? Well, put the Maltese Cross there (Fortunately, the Russian Tsar is the commander of the Maltese order), or there, instead of the hammer and sickle, put a sword and a shout. (Union of sword and plowshare). But I have a persistent allergy to the tricolor, as well as to the blakytny one.
                      2. 0
                        19 October 2021 15: 20
                        Quote: Baron Pardus
                        Sir, I have one of my many favorite cartoons. It's called "The Adventures of Captain Vrungel" (by the way, I also took the book out). So, there was such a song "As you name the yacht, so it will float."

                        - No wonder I named the yacht "Victory".
                        - Hey, on "Trouble"! Happy sailing!
                        © smile
                        Quote: Baron Pardus
                        Why didn't you like the red flag?

                        We all liked him. But since the independent Russia was built by the communists (as well as the new Ukraine, Kazkhakhstan and most of the other ex-SSRs), they acted out of habit - "to the bottom and then". smile
          2. +2
            17 October 2021 15: 29
            I think many have respected, many ... Especially judging by the annual walks with his icon in hand.
          3. +3
            17 October 2021 18: 34
            The weakness and lagging behind even in the Crimean war was why, in fact, serfdom was abolished in a hurry and they tried to quickly build capitalism.
          4. 0
            22 November 2021 18: 32
            And the losses in 1941-42 near Bialystok, Kiev, Smolensk, Vyazma, Kharkov, in the Crimea, Myasny Bor, on the Don, Rzhev does not throw you into a fever? Is it normal for a breakthrough from Tallinn to Kronstadt, thousands of people abandoned in Sevastopol and Kerch? More than one tsarist general and admiral in the worst nightmare would not have dreamed of the horrors of the blockade of Leningrad and the Germans on the Volga and the Caucasus.
      2. +2
        17 October 2021 06: 51
        THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE DECLARED WAR.
        You can refer to officers in the service of the RUSSIAN ARMY in every way, but the fact that the tsar was overthrown and then arrested by the GENERALS is an indicator of what the tsar brought his own closest and most loyal officers to. They overthrew the king in spite of the oath and war.
        The author about the * quality * of the Germans is an outright * blizzard *. The RUSSIAN ARMY fought the war against the Turks-Austrians-Germans with dignity. But it is difficult to fight if there is not enough ammunition-weapon. Facts of open betrayal under the auspices of the royal court were revealed.
        1. +5
          17 October 2021 09: 38
          Quote: Vasily50
          THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE DECLARED WAR.

          In response to mobilization. And Russia was the first to cross the borders of Prussia. What for, you ask?
          1. The comment was deleted.
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          2. 0
            18 October 2021 09: 48
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            In response to mobilization. And Russia was the first to cross the borders of Prussia. What for, you ask?

            The first, nevertheless, to mobilize the beginning of AB. And the border was crossed by German troops (Kalisz).
          3. +2
            18 October 2021 20: 06
            Mordvin.
            If you don’t know anything, it’s better not to shine. It was the Germans who crossed the border and captured Kalisz. By the way, the town was not only robbed, but also a bunch of civilians were massacred. Both the Austrians and the Germans were mobilized long BEFORE the outbreak of the war.
            1. -1
              18 October 2021 22: 03
              Quote: Vasily50
              If you don’t know anything, it’s better not to shine.

              Don't be rude, Vasya, read Shaposhnikov's memoirs. Already starting on August 2, some units, both ours and the German, were running back and forth with might and main. And to compare the German battalion with two shock armies, as it is indecent.
              1. +2
                19 October 2021 11: 13
                Quote: mordvin xnumx
                Quote: Vasily50
                If you don’t know anything, it’s better not to shine.

                Don't be rude, Vasya, read Shaposhnikov's memoirs. Already starting on August 2, some units, both ours and the German, were running back and forth with might and main. And to compare the German battalion with two shock armies, as it is indecent.

                Well then, start scolding Stalin for the attack on Japan in 1945. And what, they did not declare war on us, they did not cross the border .... We sat quietly in the barracks.
                Or is there still a debt to the allies?
                1. 0
                  19 October 2021 19: 47
                  Quote: Trapper7
                  Or is there still a debt to the allies?

                  There is. This debt alone is one of the reasons for the revolution. Nikolashka was too clever.
            2. 0
              20 October 2021 09: 52
              Mordvin
              Well, like that. Not knowing in ya kat, then offended by the fact that they indicate stupidity and again in ya kat. Apparently used to being a kind of * guru *? The homosexual habit of familiarity does not add respect.
        2. +2
          17 October 2021 18: 35
          Against a weak enemy, yes, a strong enemy, like the Germans, crushed.
        3. 0
          19 October 2021 18: 03
          Well, it depends on how you look at it. Russia is famous for the fact that the Guards overthrow and imprison monarchs at their discretion, much like in the Ottoman Empire with the Janissary riots. As many Russian tsars as their "loyal nobles and generals" have been killed, have not been killed in any European country. Even in Poland. Kings of parricides, in Europe, EMNIP was not. So the betrayal of the generals / guards is a matter of everyday life. Let us recall both Catherine the Great and the Decembrists and a lot of this in Russian history. So the grand dukes with red bows screaming "Long live the republic" (which is about the level of schizophrenia equivalent to the organization "Jews for Bandera" or "Heretics for the Inquisition"), this is something for Russia, not new.
      3. +7
        17 October 2021 17: 10
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        God knows, with Stalin at the head, Russia would be completely different.

        Why "... it would have been completely different" so it became a different country, with an army that entered Berlin ....
      4. +2
        18 October 2021 19: 42
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        God knows, with Stalin at the head, Russia would be completely different.

        One person cannot manage a hundred or two million. One manages a dozen, and if a hundred is subordinate, he already needs deputies.
        Tsarism is the rule of the country by the nobles, headed by the Tsar. Stalinism is the management of the Bolsheviks, headed by Stalin. Putinism is the government of the country (by whom you decide) - headed by Putin.
        At the heart of any power there is always a social movement that corresponds to the moral state of the people as a whole, although the people themselves often do not notice this.
        1. 0
          19 October 2021 04: 56
          Quote: ivan2022
          One manages a dozen, and if a hundred is subordinate, he already needs deputies.

          So Stalin was able to pick up deputies, that at least until his death they obeyed him. Unlike Nicky - 2.
    2. +7
      17 October 2021 06: 48
      Quote: Xlor
      Find yourself in the place of Nicholas II Comrade Stalin, then Russia would not have entered into any war.

      So the IVS, 20 years after the end of WWI, did not enter ... a little later I had to fight the Germans one-on-one.
    3. +5
      17 October 2021 06: 59
      Quote: Xlor
      Find yourself in the place of Nicholas II Comrade Stalin, then Russia would not have entered into any war.

      Stalin at that time under no circumstances could have been at the "helm of control" of Russia. And any of the descendants of the Romanovs would never have been able to be out of the European showdown ...
    4. -16
      17 October 2021 08: 27
      Quote: Xlor
      ... Find yourself in the place of Nicholas II Comrade Stalin, Russia would not have entered into any war. We would sell them raw materials, weapons and food and watch from the Winter Palace rubbing our hands as our enemies kill each other!

      He heard you as: Stalin 7 Sept 1939:
      “The war is going on between two groups of capitalist countries. We are not averse to they had a good fight and weakened each other. It is not bad if the position of the richest capitalist countries (especially England) was shaken by the hands of Germany. Hitler, himself not realizing this and not wanting to, undermines and undermines the capitalist system. We can maneuver, push one side against the other in order to get torn apart.


      Only now it turned out quite the opposite: Germany did not come out weakened, but strengthened many times over, and the USSR was left alone

      And he did not have it in the West of France, which in WWI pulled off the main blows and losses.

      And if in WWII the main losses were suffered by the Anglo-Franks, then in WWII their losses were in almost 30 times smaller than ours

      The most frankly weak article is a big minus: a set of old mossy cliches, negligence, absolutely wild ridiculous numbers and ignorant conclusions:
      Under Tannenberg, the Russians lost 100 men in one day.


      For the entire East Prussian operation for 2 months, the losses of the Russian army amounted to 80 thousand people (World Wars of the XX century. In 4 kn. Book. 1. World War I: M .: Nauka, 2002) with the losses of the German army 54 thousand.

      At the same time, the tactical defeat of the Russian army strategically was a victory for Russia, which thwarted Germany's general plan for the war.

      And who is the "authority" quoted by the author ...
      General Ruski
      ?!

      It was the wives of the workers who had to bear the heaviest burden. Working class women in St. Petersburg reportedly spent about forty hours a week shivering from the cold while queuing for food. To feed their hungry children, many were forced to resort to begging. 1915 years

      The authors should also know that cards (and only for bread) in Petrograd appeared only in APRIL 1917, through three years after the start of the war. Before that, free trade was carried out with any kind of food (except sugar from December 1916).
      Etc
      1. +9
        17 October 2021 08: 44
        Only now it turned out quite the opposite: Germany did not come out weakened, but strengthened many times over, and the USSR was left alone

        Well, no one in the Kremlin could have imagined that France would surrender shamefully like that! Everyone thought that the war would be of attrition and last a long time! It was then that Comrade. Stalin would have gotten what he wanted without shedding a drop of blood ...
      2. +13
        17 October 2021 09: 09
        Quote: Olgovich
        The authors should also know that cards (and only for bread) appeared in Petrograd only in APRIL 1917, three years after the start of the war. Before that, free trade was carried out with any kind of food (except sugar from December 1916).

        The grain riots in Petrograd became a logical development of the crisis in grain procurement and transport, which worsened by the end of 1916.

        On December 2, 1916, the "Special Meeting on Foodstuffs" introduced the PROMOTIONAL PROGRAM.

        Despite the harsh measures, instead of the planned 772,1 million poods of bread to the STATE CLOSE, ONLY 170 million poods were COLLECTED.

        As a result, in December 1916, the norms for soldiers at the front were reduced from 3 pounds to 2 pounds of bread per day, and in the front line - to 1,5 pounds.

        Bread cards were introduced in Moscow, Kiev, Kharkov, Odessa, Chernigov, Podolsk, Voronezh, Ivanovo-Voznesensk and other cities.

        Thousands of crowds stood in lines for bread without the confidence to make their cards, and in cities such as Vitebsk, Polotsk, Kostroma, the population began to starve.
        https://proza.ru/2020/01/11/2054
        1. -4
          17 October 2021 11: 20
          Quote: Waterways 672
          The grain riots in Petrograd became a logical development of the crisis situation in grain procurements and in transport, aggravated by end of 1916.

          why quote this nonsense with respect to 1915 g about which the article is writing?

          Once again: cards in St. Petersburg were introduced only in the SPRING 1917, before that bread, as well as MEAT, BUTTER, EGGS, etc. were sold free
          Quote: Waterways 672
          On December 2, 1916, the "Special Meeting on Foodstuffs" introduced the PROMOTIONAL PROGRAM.


          TWO YEARS with a tail after the start of the war. VOLUNTARY, along with free selling hdeb.
          Quote: Waterways 672
          for soldiers

          Germany replaced bread with swede
          AND :
          Wartime food supply standards family members of soldiers , called up for mobilization, militia warriors for one family member for a month:
          * Rye or wheat flour - 28 kg .;
          * Different cereals - 4 kg .;
          * Salt - 1.6 kg.
          * Vegetable oil - 409,6 g.

          Notes:
          1. The norm is issued in money at the market prices of a given locality.
          2. Family members include wife, children, dependent parents.

          Quote: Waterways 672
          Bread cards introduced in Moscow, Kiev, Kharkov, Odessa, Chernigov, Podolsk, Voronezh, Ivanovo-Voznesensk and other cities

          only for bread, and already only in July 1917 - for meat, in August - for butter,

          Let me remind you that in Germany several people have already died of hunger hundreds of thousands of people, with cards since 1914
          Quote: Waterways 672
          the population began to starve.

          with real hunger, people die - as happened in Germany, as in the Second World War in the rear, for example, in the Urals

          Russia PMV is the only warring power where there was no famine
          1. +4
            17 October 2021 16: 48
            Quote: Olgovich
            bread, as well as MEAT, BUTTER, EGGS, etc. were sold freely

            Which I still had to be able to buy. In practice, this resulted in pogroms of shops.
            Quote: Olgovich
            VOLUNTARY, along with the free sale of hdeb.

            That is, I want to sell bread at a fixed state price. If I want it, at a higher market price? Interesting! And the food detachments, presumably, were introduced to confirm voluntariness? : fool
            Quote: Olgovich
            Russia PMV is the only warring power where there was no famine

            And the first, where there was a revolution provoked by hunger.
            1. +4
              17 October 2021 18: 38
              Now he will tell you that all the traitors and foreign agents, but everything was fine.
              1. +2
                18 October 2021 14: 45
                All were recruited by Gepeu. soldier
              2. 0
                22 December 2021 16: 44
                Quote: Kronos
                Now he will tell you that all the traitors and foreign agents, but everything was fine.

                Duc, as soon as you start criticizing the USSR and Stalin, this is what appears, "the contra (traitors) and foreign agents are to blame for everything."
            2. -4
              18 October 2021 10: 25
              Quote: Sahar Medovich
              Which I still had to be able to buy. In practice, this resulted in pogroms of shops.

              in the Bolshev. stupid brain - no pogorom in the described 1915 and in 1916 and did not stink
              Quote: Sahar Medovich
              That is, I want to sell bread at a fixed state price. If I want it, at a higher market price? Interesting!

              Quote: Sahar Medovich
              And the food detachments, presumably, were introduced to confirm voluntariness?

              pro-detachments operate from the thief
              Quote: Sahar Medovich
              And the first, where there was a revolution provoked by hunger.

              fool
              in the Bolshevik stupid brain. Hunger is hundreds of thousands of hunger-like corpses in the streets, like in Germany (and no reaction).

              Hunger, death from him, executions of hungry rioters by big bandits and cannibalism began with a thief.
              1. +1
                18 October 2021 14: 53
                Quote: Olgovich
                no fires in the described 1915 and in 1916 and did not stink

                The stink did not stink, but in reality it was happening.
                Quote: Olgovich
                pro-detachments operate from the thief

                And before her too.
                Quote: Olgovich
                in the Bolshevik dumb minds

                Yeah, but in reality we still have the Romanovs on the throne ... fool
                Quote: Olgovich
                Hunger, death from him, executions of hungry rioters by big bandits and cannibalism began with a thief.

                And what happened in tsarist times ended with a thief ... Yes
          2. +4
            18 October 2021 10: 22
            Why cite this nonsense in relation to 1915, about which the article writes?

            There is no need to look for moments. Article as a whole of the 5th grade level of the school subject History. For kids.
      3. +5
        17 October 2021 16: 41
        Quote: Olgovich
        cards (and only for bread) in Petrograd appeared only in APRIL 1917

        But in Moscow: "January 31, 1917.
        We are given 1/4 of a pound of bread a day per card. If my grandchildren wonder how we survived and where we got so much money from to still feed ourselves, let them learn a useful lesson from this: first of all, never, under any circumstances, do not despair and therefore it is especially painful not to be afraid of anything. But maybe we will still die of hunger, but then there will be no grandchildren either "(L.A. Avilova).
        And in the provinces: "The economic devastation caused by the war was imminent. Every day there was a more acute shortage of bread and meat in the city. Workers and their families were starving. Queues of women and children lined up in front of the shops. large stocks of meat, bread and other agricultural products harvested for export from Siberia ...
        Before the February revolution, it was simply impossible to buy bread in Novonikolaevsk. At the same time, the profits of some milling enterprises increased 15 times during the war. "(G. Ye. Dronin).
        1. -2
          18 October 2021 11: 01
          Quote: Sahar Medovich
          But in Moscow: "January 31, 1917.

          you just need to remember that Russia 197 is a PEASANT country. And in the village everything was GOOD, especially with the money poured into the village with the beginning of WWI. For the capital cities, it was especially acute, since they were entirely dependent on planned supply. In the provinces, only a few provincial centers felt the high cost and lack of food - due to the influx of refugees, the increase in garrisons, and the disruption of the railway service. Rural areas - villages, villages and associated county towns - similar problems practically did not experience it.

          So, for all the years of the war in the cities of the Samara province, there were only five speeches on the basis of the high cost and abuse of merchants, all in 1915 Years: February 19 and September 19 in Samara, October 27 in Melekess and December 26 in Stavropol (rise in sugar prices, weight gain of meat, etc.)

          By February 1917 in the towns and villages of the province there were no signs of hunger.
          ist. Golubinov, Ya.A. The food issue and ways of solving it in the Samara province during the First World War (1914 - February 1917)
          1. +1
            18 October 2021 15: 12
            Quote: Olgovich
            And in the village everything was GOOD, especially with money,

            More precisely - in the village it was good for those who had money. And with money there was someone who bought bread from peasant Russia for a pittance and, in the conditions of war and rising prices, did not sell it, expecting an even greater rise in price. For this, already since 1915, firm "taxes" were needed for food and detachments at the local level on the initiative of far-sighted governors, then the surplus appropriation and food detachments at the state level. The situation was worse in cities, moreover, in the non-chernozem zone:
            "October 1, 1915.
            “The high cost has been terrible lately…. There is no sugar, no flour, no butter, no cereals, no millet. The chintz rose in price to 50 kopecks. Woolen fabric, which used to cost 85 kopecks - up to 4.00 rubles. Life has become so expensive that it is really better to die.
            October 6 1916 year.
            We came to Kopylovka. I was surprised how the men live here. The huts are more like a barn than a man's dwelling; stench, dirt, just dizzy. We enter one hut, it is jam-packed with various household accessories. So there was absolutely nowhere to turn. Meanwhile, almost 10 people live here, and such poverty is visible, it just becomes horror "(L. Ilyina, city of Krapivna, Tula province.)
            It was somewhat easier in the black earth, but even there: “To a lesser extent they (high cost and lack of food - SM) were noticeable in the spring of 1916 in such a“ grain ”city of the Volga region as Saratov. from Saratov to Konotop, then even in this small town of northern Ukraine (bread and beet-sugar region), residents had to queue at bakeries for bread, and even more so for a roll, for a pound of sugar or meat and a bottle of vegetable oil ("olia") at the grocers Prices for butter, milk, vegetables at the bazaar rose sharply.Parents decided to switch to “subsistence farming”: they rented half a dozen land for a vegetable garden from a neighbor outside the city and, with our help, planted potatoes, beans, onions, cabbage and other vegetables in such an amount that ensured the family complete independence from the bazaar.Summer of 1916 I spent in Konotop, working in a vegetable garden, and in the fall I took with me to Kiev a sack of potatoes, almost half a pound of millet and buckwheat, two pounds of lard and butts a spoonful of vegetable oil is part of my "earnings" in this garden. With regard to grain and cereals, we were helped by our own fathers, the peasants of the village of Deptovka, to whom their parents gave us a bicycle ..., a manufactory, clothes that were used but still fit for wearing in the village. This exchange of goods continued for four years until 1916 "(NP Poletika).
            Quote: Olgovich
            By February 1917, there were no signs of hunger in the towns and villages of the province. Golubinov, Ya.A.

            And he, Ya.A. Golubinov, asked his contemporaries? They may have other information! stop
            1. -3
              19 October 2021 06: 26
              Quote: Sahar Medovich
              More precisely - it's good in the village

              more precisely, you already said, but did not get it again:: In the provinces, only some provincial centers felt the high cost and shortage of food - due to the influx of refugees, the increase in garrisons, and the disruption of railroad communications. Rural areas, which is 85% of the population of Russia - villages, villages and associated county cities - practically did not experience such problems.

              Hunger, starving deaths by millions, cannibalism are all the achievements of thieves, when the "difficulties" of PMV were a fairy tale
              Quote: Sahar Medovich
              he, Golubinov Ya.A., asked his contemporaries?

              Lavrov, b: everything is on the DOCUMENTS of the archives.
              1. -1
                19 October 2021 14: 20
                Quote: Olgovich
                but it didn't come again

                Up to you.
                Quote: Olgovich
                In the provinces, only some provincial centers felt the high cost and lack of food

                Not some, but all to one degree or another, and not only provincial, but also provincial and provincial ones too. There is no question of villages - they never lived well there, and during the war it only got worse. It became better only for those who in the village were called "world eaters" and it is clear why.
                Quote: Olgovich
                I'm all on the DOCUMENTS of the archives.

                Who claim that there were pogroms of shops in 1915 and 1916. It's about "not stinking".
                Quote: Olgovich
                Lavrov

                I know you have already introduced yourself. hi
                1. -3
                  20 October 2021 10: 37
                  Quote: Sahar Medovich
                  Not some, but all to one degree or another, and not only provincial, but also provincial and provincial ones too. There is no question of villages - they never lived well there, and during the war it only got worse. It became better only for those who in the village were called "world eaters" and it is clear why.

                  In the provinces, only a few provincial centers felt the high cost and lack of food - due to the influx of refugees, the increase in garrisons, and the disruption of the railway service. Rural areas, which is 85% of the population of Russia - villages, villages and associated county cities - practically did not experience such problems.

                  Hunger, starvation deaths by millions, cannibalism are all the achievements of thieves, when the "hardships" of PMV seemed like a fairy tale against the backdrop of a conscience of starving mortality
                  Quote: Sahar Medovich
                  Who claim that there were pogroms of shops in 1915 and 1916. It's about "not stinking".

                  the speech was about hungry pogroms, and in the Samara province there are SINGLE cases of hooliganism, weight gain and rise in sugar prices.


                  Quote: Sahar Medovich
                  I know

                  you do not even know the Russian language and what is the second person, beat hi
                  1. -1
                    20 October 2021 16: 06
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    In the provinces, only a few provincial centers felt the high cost and lack of food - due to the influx of refugees, the increase in garrisons, and the disruption of the railway service. Rural areas, which is 85% of the population of Russia - villages, villages and associated county cities - practically did not experience such problems.

                    Not some, but all to one degree or another, and not only provincial, but also provincial and provincial ones too. There is no question of villages - they never lived well there, and during the war it only got worse. It became better only for those who in the village were called "world eaters" and it is clear why.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Hunger, starving deaths by millions, cannibalism are all thieves' achievements

                    And what happened in tsarist times ended with a thief ... yes
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    they were talking about hunger pogroms, and in the Samara province there are SINGLE cases of hooliganism, weight gain and a rise in sugar prices.

                    It was about pogroms in connection with the problems of acquiring products "sold freely". This is exactly what Golubinov wrote.
                    Lavrov, you don't even know the Russian language, he beat me. As well as history and arithmetic for elementary grades. fool
                    1. -3
                      21 October 2021 08: 04
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      Not some,

                      In the provinces, only a few provincial centers felt the high cost and lack of food - due to the influx of refugees, the increase in garrisons, and the disruption of the railway service. The rural area, which is 85% of the population of Russia - villages, villages and associated county towns - practically did not experience such problems, moreover, a lot of money poured into the village.
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      And what happened in Tsarist times ended with the VOR ..

                      tsarist time - a TALE with the aftermath with its massive eating of their children, parents, corpses and decayed animal corpses
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      It was about pogroms in connection with the problems of acquiring products "sold freely". This is exactly what Golubinov wrote.

                      Gobinov has written hooliganism, body kit, rise in price.
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      Lavrov, you don't even know the Russian language, he beat me.

                      learn what a second person is in Russian, beat
                      1. -1
                        21 October 2021 13: 53
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        In the provinces, only a few provincial centers felt the high cost and lack of food - due to the influx of refugees, the increase in garrisons, and the disruption of the railway service. The rural area, which is 85% of the population of Russia - villages, villages and associated county towns - practically did not experience such problems, moreover, a lot of money poured into the village.

                        Not some, but all to one degree or another, and not only provincial, but also provincial and provincial ones too. There is no question of villages - they never lived well there, and during the war it only got worse. It became better only for those who in the village were called "world eaters" and it is clear why.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        tsarist time - TALE

                        Very scary. That the return of this time will not be allowed, the Reds and Whites assured, and later the Germans and Vlasovites.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Gobinov has written hooliganism, body kit, rise in price.

                        That's right - a rise in price. Those. it was difficult to acquire products "on the free sale". What I have been talking about for so long.
                      2. -1
                        21 October 2021 15: 32
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Not some,

                        for sure, ALL the villagers lived well, and there were no hunger deaths and cannibalism in the rear, as in the Second World War
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Very scary.

                        this "fear" dreamed of dying, eating decayed animals, decaying corpses of people, their children and parents in the red country.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        That's right - a rise in price. Those. it was difficult to acquire products "on the free sale". What I have been talking about for so long.

                        beat only and can, like a woodpecker, beat his head: the rise in price is not a physical lack of goods, as it was from the first days of the Second World War
                      3. -1
                        21 October 2021 15: 46
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        for sure, ALL the villagers lived well,

                        Exactly - ALL of those few. Most of them lived badly until Sunday.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        dreamed about this "fear"

                        They dreamed that he would never return. For they knew that he was sheer hunger and lack of rights.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        he can only beat his head like a woodpecker

                        That's right - my interlocutor is like that.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        the rise in price is not a physical absence of goods

                        Right. But also the difficulty, if not the impossibility of acquiring it.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        as it was from the first days of the Second World War

                        In the Second World War there was no physical lack of goods. You don't know the history.
                      4. -4
                        22 October 2021 07: 31
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Exactly - ALL

                        EVERYONE in the village lived an order of magnitude better than after the thief and in the Second World War
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        They dreamed that he would never return. For they knew that he was sheer hunger and lack of rights.

                        dreamed of a great free country of Russia, where they ate much better and had much more freedoms than in the dark, dark, wild Middle Ages with its tens of millions of dead bodies from hunger, mass cannibalism, millions exiled without trial, hundreds of thousands shot, with the dictatorship of one stupid batch of beels.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        That's right - my interlocutor is like that.

                        That's right - my interlocutor is like that
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Right. But also the difficulty, if not the impossibility of acquiring it.

                        impossible is in the red hungry middle ages
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        In the Second World War there was no physical lack of goods. You don't know the history.

                        in the Second World War there was not just a lack of food, but there was starvation mortality with cannibalism in the rear due to being ignorant.
                      5. 0
                        23 October 2021 06: 04
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        EVERYONE in the village lived an order of magnitude better than after the thief

                        All of the few.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        dreamed of the great free country of Russia, where they ate much better and had much more freedom

                        Yes exactly. About that Russia where the "old regime" has been overthrown forever.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        That's right - my interlocutor is like that

                        That's right - my interlocutor is like that.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        impossible is in the red hungry middle ages

                        Where speculators have not yet been crushed - relics of the tsarist eternally hungry antiquity.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        in WWII there was not just a lack of food, but there was starvation mortality

                        Also, as in R.i., an ignoramus.
                      6. -3
                        23 October 2021 09: 50
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        All of the few.

                        everything, unlike a few under Bolshevism
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Yes exactly. About that Russia where the "old regime" has been overthrown forever.

                        yes, there is no more stupid "nar" regime. And under him they dreamed of a great free country of Russia, where they ate much better and had much more freedom than in the dark red wild Middle Ages with its tens of millions of dead bodies from hunger, mass cannibalism, millions of people exiled without court, hundreds of thousands shot, with the dictatorship of one dumbest batch of beats.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        That's right - my interlocutor is like that.

                        That's right - my interlocutor is like that
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Where not yet crushed.

                        impossibility is in the red hungry middle ages.
                        Dumb brains were only enough to crush, take away, force and kill
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Also, as in R.i., an ignoramus.

                        only in the "nogodny" country millions were dying of hunger, as well as people eating decayed animals, the decayed corpses of people, their children and parents
                        VOLODARSKY DISTRICT. ... Having absolutely no food, by agreement with his older sister, a 9-year-old boy killed a 3-year-old girl (sister), after which they cut off her head and ate the meat of the corpse raw.
                        CHERNYAKHOVSKY DISTRICT. In the village of Andreev, poor Zh *** died due to malnutrition. 11-year-old boy - with a knife he opened the belly of the deceased father, took out the insides and prepared them to cook.

                        In the village of Pinkovka, poor collective farmer K ***, 50 years old, killed his two daughters, 7 and 9 years old, whose meat he ate for food

                        in the village of Pinkovka, Andreev and other tens of thousands of villages longingly remembered the golden happy well-fed (in comparison with the human days of the Bolsheviks) days of WWI of the times of Russia.
                      7. -1
                        24 October 2021 10: 26
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        everything, unlike a few under Bolshevism

                        All of the few. Unlike many under Bolshevism. According to them.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        under him dreamed of a great free country of Russia, where they ate much better and had much more freedom

                        Under him, this is under the pre-Soviet and post-Soviet regime. About the great free country of Russia - i.e. about the USSR.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        That's right - my interlocutor is like that

                        That's right - my interlocutor is like that
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Dumb brains were only enough to crush, take away, force and kill

                        Fortunately, these brains were overthrown in 1917.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        millions were starving

                        Yes, it was from century to century. The Bolsheviks stopped it.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        in the village of Pinkovka, Andreev and other tens of thousands of villages

                        From the "red belt"? wink
                      8. -3
                        24 October 2021 11: 24
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        All of the few. Unlike many under Bolshevism. According to them.

                        words are worthless under the rule of red beels. Zero.
                        and here data millions who died of hunger (which, according to the words of the red beels ... did not exist), speak for themselves
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        ... About the great free country of Russia - i.e. about the USSR.

                        not a single tall red silt named Russia the USSR, on the contrary, INSTEAD of Russia they called it that.

                        And they WASTE the name Russia from the map of the world.

                        And the people dreamed about the Great Free Russia where they did NOT eat people and had much more freedom than in the dark red wild Middle Ages with its tens of millions of corpses from hunger, mass cannibalism, millions exiled without trial, hundreds of thousands shot, with the dictatorship of one tupparty of beels.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        That's right - my interlocutor is like that

                        That's right - my interlocutor is such a sing
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Fortunately, these brains were overthrown in 1917.

                        these stupid brains appeared with thieves and immediately with them, the RIVERS OF RUSSIAN BLOOD flowed for DECADES, they took away, crushed, killed, humiliated, imprisoned, forced, for another stupid thieves' brains were not enough.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Yes, it was from century to century. The Bolsheviks are

                        the Bolshevik century, and there are no koov.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        From the "red belt"?

                        what, in, red "? fool

                        Go there and hint about the redness and that mortal time and see what remains of you ...
                        Crib: CHERNYAKHOVSKY DISTRICT. Poor Zh *** died of malnutrition in the village of Andreev. 11-year-old boy - cut open the belly of his deceased father with a knife, took out the insides and prepared them to boil.

                        In the village of Pinkovka, a collective farmer, poor K ***, 50 years old, killed his two daughters 7 and 9 years old, whose meat was eaten
                        yours did it. Pinkovka did not know this before you.
                      9. -1
                        25 October 2021 15: 10
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        words are worthless under the rule of red beels. Zero.

                        The words of people in any government are worth a lot. Not less documents. And the inventions of the beats in hindsight - yes, they cost zero.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        INSTEAD of Russia they called it that.

                        Together. And the USSR from this as was Russia, and remained.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        And they WASTE the name Russia from the map of the world.

                        Lying.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        And the people dreamed about the Great Free Russia

                        And this dream came true in 1917.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        That's right - my interlocutor is such a sing

                        That's right - my interlocutor is such a sing and cry. laughing
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        those stupid brains

                        in which blood was shed for centuries, people were starved, trampled into the mud, were overthrown in 1917.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        no koov

                        Only their return is waiting for the fourth decade. Whether with hope or with fear, they wait.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        CHERNYAKHOVSKY DISTRICT

                        Ukraine. For which Russia is at all times the same color and regime, regardless of who is in power. And it is not the "Bilshoviks" who are to blame for the famine for them, but exclusively the "Muscovites".
                        And here is the Yeisk, Kushchevsky, Tikhoretsky districts - the Krasnodar Territory, which is the "red belt". The same one. H and so on. good
                      10. -3
                        26 October 2021 07: 24
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        The words of people in any government are worth a lot, no less documents. And the fictions of the beats in hindsight - yes, they cost zero

                        with "nogodnaya" - they are worthless, because they were not spoken by people, but by the deceitful authorities, and these stupid inventions of the beaters only beat them as "documents."
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And the USSR from this as was Russia, and remained

                        INSTEAD of Russia, the country was called the USSR by ALL seki, and none of them called the country Russia: for this, they cut it into 15 states
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        this dream came true in 1917.

                        disappeared with the advent of the anti-human regime and disappeared Russia, where they ate much better and had much more freedom than in red gloomy wild Middle Ages with its tens of millions of corpses from hunger, mass cannibalism, millions exiled without trial, hundreds of thousands shot, with the dictatorship of one stupid party of beats.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        That's right - my interlocutor is such a sing and cry.

                        That's right - my interlocutor is so singing and tying.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Only their return is awaiting fourth decade... Whether with hope or with fear, they wait.

                        lol
                        So we will never wait - WHEN, finally, will the decayed zombies "return"? No none. lol
                        Only Napoleons and A. the Macedonian are waiting in the chambers.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Ukraine

                        Russia. Yours did it there "ukrainy"
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        But Yeisk, Kushchevsky, Tikhoretsky districts - Krasnodar Territory

                        the party of decayed tbils there gained as much ... 15%. And go hint there about your right hunger 1933
                      11. -1
                        26 October 2021 15: 47
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        they were not spoken by people, but by deceitful authorities

                        This (which I) was talking about exactly people. Both under the PEOPLE'S power, and after it. And if what they said coincides with what the authorities say, then the authorities were speaking the truth.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        INSTEAD of Russia, the country was called the USSR by ALL seki, and none of them called the country Russia: for this, they cut it into 15 states

                        They called it this and that, but that the USSR was precisely Russia, and not something else - everyone knew. Incl. beels who vainly deny it.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        disappeared with the advent of the anti-human regime and Russia disappeared, where they ate much better and had much more freedom

                        The age-old kingdom of hunger and lawlessness disappeared, a life appeared in which people ate much better and there was incomparably more freedom. According to people who have the opportunity to compare on their own experience. And just by common sense.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        That's right - my interlocutor is so singing and tying.

                        That's right - my interlocutor is such a sing and cry.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        So we will never wait - WHEN, finally, will the decayed zombies "return"?

                        Yours, however, claim that they never went anywhere. They lie, go? laughing
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Yours did it there "ukrainy"

                        It is yours. And a hundred, and thirty years ago, and in our time. Yes.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        as much ... 15%

                        Exactly. Therefore, your hysteria about the "Stalinization" of the country does not stop.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        And go hint there about your right hunger 1933

                        Only yours can be "correct" hunger. And I don't need to stutter - there is someone without me to tell you that the hunger and its causes were far from the same as they are portrayed by modern beaters.
                      12. -2
                        27 October 2021 07: 39
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        This (which I) was talking about exactly people. Both under the PEOPLE'S power, and after it. And if what they said coincides with what the authorities say, then the authorities were speaking the truth.

                        people had nothing to do with the "nogodny" government: this, so-called. "power" NEVER was elected by ANYONE of the people.

                        Therefore, EVERYTHING said in her presence is a LIE, said by the most stupid false cowardly authority.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Gone is the age-old kingdom of hunger and lawlessness

                        in 1917, a half-century century-old reign of hunger and lawlessness has COME in the red gloomy wild Middle Ages with its tens of millions of dead bodies from hunger, mass cannibalism, millions exiled without trial, hundreds of thousands shot, with the dictatorship of one party of beels.
                        This is evidenced by the documents secret power itself beats and just common sense.

                        That's right - my interlocutor is such a sing, that and that.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        It is yours. And a hundred, and thirty years ago, and in our time. Yes.

                        your Russophobes are stupid -and a hundred years ago and 30
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Exactly. Therefore, your hysteria about the "Stalinization" of the country does not stop.

                        just about-percent at the level of the baseboard
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Only yours can be "correct" hunger. And I don't need to stutter - there is someone without me to tell you that the hunger and its causes were far from the same as they are portrayed by modern beaters.

                        of course, they will quickly tear off their head for nothing, for millions of children and women starved by unimaginable power
                      13. -1
                        27 October 2021 14: 54
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        people had nothing to do with the "nogodny" government: this, so-called. "power" NEVER was elected by ANYONE of the people.

                        They had the most immediate - without them, she would not have become power.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        EVERYTHING said in front of her is a LIE, said by the most stupid lying cowardly authority

                        All that was said WITH her? Those. what your Smolensk people said too? And equally the documents that you are citing here? Did you realize that you blurted out? fool
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        in 1917, a half-century century

                        Half a century old? Hundreds of thousands of millions? However ... go on! laughing
                        And in 1917, the age-old reign of hunger and lawlessness disappeared, a life appeared in which people ate much better and there was incomparably more freedom. According to people who have the opportunity to compare on their own experience. And just by common sense.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        That's right - my interlocutor is such a sing, that and that.

                        That's right - my interlocutor is such a sing, that and that. Typical Russophobe / anti-communist.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        your Russophobes are stupid -and a hundred years ago and 30

                        It is yours. Russophobes. There are no others.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        interest at the level of the plinth

                        And your fear of these percentages is immeasurable. Yes
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        head off quickly

                        Anyone who says that "people lived badly in the USSR." In the meantime, monuments to Stalin are being erected there. And throughout Russia too.
                      14. -3
                        28 October 2021 07: 30
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Had the most direct

                        as a victim. NOBODY NEVER chose "nagodnuyu" power: they were afraid of your elections before they went.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        All that was said WITH her? Those. what your Smolensk people said too? And equally the documents that you are citing here? Did you realize that you blurted out?

                        namely, that EVERYTHING, but it will not reach you in any way, that even the secret docks did not reflect even a small part of the horror that was happening in reality, that is, they lied
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich

                        And in 1917, the age-old reign of hunger and lawlessness disappeared, a life appeared in which people ate much better and there was incomparably more freedom. According to people who have the opportunity to compare on their own experience. And just by common sense.

                        in 1917, the kingdom of hunger and horror of lawlessness appeared in red gloomy wild Middle Ages with its tens of millions of corpses from hunger, mass cannibalism, millions exiled without trial, hundreds of thousands shotx, with the dictatorship of one batch of beels.
                        This is evidenced by documents that are classified by the authorities themselves and just common sense.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        That's right - my interlocutor is such a sing, that and that. Typical Russophobe / anti-communist.

                        That's right - my interlocutor is such a sing, that and that. Typical Russophobe-omik who destroyed Russia and led her people to extinction
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        It is yours. Russophobes. There are no others.

                        It is your Russophobes -omics. There were no others in power in 1917-1940
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And your fear before these percentages - dimensionless.

                        isa common in decayed zombies. Do you even bite anyone to increase the ranks? And still, nobody?
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Anyone who says that "people lived badly in the USSR." In the meantime, monuments to Stalin are being erected there. And throughout Russia too.

                        Someone who will justify the stupidity of that government, which led to cannibalism in the 20th century, where the harvest barks.
                        Monument to the flock of victims of famine, and the marginal people who lived were their phantoms ..
                      15. -1
                        28 October 2021 15: 56
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        as a victim

                        As a voter.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Nogodny "power NO ONE EVER chose

                        Chose the people. Many others. By the very Hamburg score. Fact.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Ie lied

                        So, you are giving false information here? This has been known for a long time.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        even the secret docks did not reflect even a small part of the horror that was happening in reality

                        Which a lot of people didn't notice.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        in 1917, the kingdom of hunger and horror of lawlessness appeared

                        In 1917, the age-old kingdom of hunger and lawlessness disappeared, a life appeared in which people ate much better and there was incomparably more freedom. According to people who have the opportunity to compare on their own experience. And just by common sense.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        That's right - my interlocutor is such a sing, that and that.

                        That's right - my interlocutor is such a sing, that and that. A typical Russophobe-omik, who destroyed Russia a century ago, but was then rendered harmless by the saviors of Russia, but now he has destroyed Russia and leading its people to extinction.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        It is your Russophobes -omics.

                        It is your Russophobes -omics. Expelled from the Russian land in 1920-22 her defenders.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        isa common in decayed zombies

                        Yes, and you have it too. On the basis of fear.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Someone who will justify the stupidity of that government, which led to cannibalism in the 20th century, where the harvest barks.

                        Someone who cares for the cannibalistic power, under which for centuries until 1917 the country did not come out of a state of hunger. Incl. where "the shafts bark the harvest."
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        marginalized

                        To which yours have been losing the battle for the minds for the second century already ...
                      16. -3
                        29 October 2021 08: 25
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        As a voter.

                        there were no elections under the "nogodny" government. Never.
                        your choices were raging.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Which a lot of people didn't notice.

                        many millions just died from the actions of blunt power
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        In 1917, the age-old kingdom of hunger and lawlessness disappeared


                        in 1917, the kingdom of hunger and horror of lawlessness appeared in the dark red wild Middle Ages, with its tens of millions of dead bodies from hunger, mass cannibalism, millions exiled without trial, hundreds of thousands shot, with the dictatorship of one party of beels.
                        This is evidenced by documents that are classified by the authorities themselves and just common sense.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        That's right - my interlocutor is like that

                        That's right - my interlocutor is so-sing, ty and vy. Typical Russophobe-omik who destroyed Russia and led its people to extinction
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        It is your Russophobes -omics.

                        That is how your Russophobes -omics destroyed Russia from 1917 to
                        1991. There were no others in power

                        isa common in decayed zombies

                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Someone who cares for the cannibalistic power, under which for centuries until 1917 the country did not come out of a state of hunger. Incl. where "the shafts bark the harvest."

                        Someone who justifies the stupidity of that cannibalistic power that led to cannibalism in the 20th century where the harvest is barking and where there have NEVER been any conscientious achievements - cannibalism and corpse-eating under Russia

                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        To which yours have been losing the battle for minds for the second century

                        lol decayed zombies?
                        You bite people, but the result is still zero.
                      17. -1
                        29 October 2021 15: 44
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        there were no elections under the "nogodny" government.

                        This power was chosen by the people. Many others.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        many millions just died

                        Aha, again "many millions". Only they did not know about it.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        in 1917, the kingdom of hunger and horror of lawlessness appeared

                        In 1917, the age-old kingdom of hunger and lawlessness disappeared, a life appeared in which people ate much better and there was incomparably more freedom. According to people who have the opportunity to compare on their own experience. And just by common sense.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        That's right - my interlocutor is so-sing, ty and vy

                        That's right - my interlocutor is such a sing, that and that. A typical Russophobe-omik, who destroyed Russia a century ago, but was then rendered harmless by the saviors of Russia, but now he has destroyed Russia and leading its people to extinction.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        That is how your Russophobes -omics destroyed Russia from 1917 to
                        1991. There were no others in power

                        That's right - your Russophobes -omiks were destroyed from 1917 to 1922. And they are being destroyed since 1991.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        To the one who justifies the stupidity of that cannibalistic power

                        Ruled until 1917 and since 1991
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        You bite people, but the result is still zero.

                        You bite powerlessly, because the result in the struggle for minds is in our favor. tongue
                      18. -4
                        30 October 2021 10: 26
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        This power was chosen by the people.

                        name these non-beings "elections", a liar and parties there, a liar.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Aha, again "many millions". Only they did not know about it.

                        fool they, millions, have died and this is known to hundreds of millions
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        In 1917, the age-old kingdom of hunger disappeared

                        in 1917, the kingdom of hunger and horror of lawlessness appeared in the dark red wild Middle Ages, with its tens of millions of dead bodies from hunger, mass cannibalism, millions exiled without trial, hundreds of thousands shot, with the dictatorship of one party of beels.
                        This is evidenced by documents that are classified by the authorities themselves and just common sense.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Right - my interlocutor

                        That's right - my interlocutor is so-sing, ty and vy. Typical Russophobe-omik who destroyed Russia and led its people to extinction

                        isa common in decayed zombies
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        That is how
                        That is how your Russophobes -omics destroyed Russia from 1917 to
                        1991. There were no others in power

                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Ruled until 1917 and since 1991

                        stupid power obdlvsya power bankrupt - from 1917 to 1991
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        You bite powerlessly, because the result in the struggle for minds is in our favor

                        Have you ever bitten anyone to increase the number of decayed zombies?

                        And even with your full power, yours got bogged, and now, and at all, except for biting, there are no chances.
                      19. -1
                        30 October 2021 16: 13
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        name these non-beings "elections", a liar and parties there, a liar.

                        Non-existent I will not name, but existing ones to you, a liar, were called many times. And you have not refuted their fact. As well as the presence of more than a dozen parties, a liar. Yes
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        it is known to hundreds of millions

                        Modern lies about those events are well known.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        in 1917, the kingdom of hunger and horror of lawlessness appeared

                        In 1917, the age-old kingdom of hunger and lawlessness disappeared, a life appeared in which people ate much better and there was incomparably more freedom. According to people who have the opportunity to compare on their own experience. And just by common sense.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        That's right - my interlocutor is so-sing, ty and vy. Typical Russophobe-omik who destroyed Russia and led its people to extinction

                        That's right - my interlocutor is such a sing, that and that. A typical Russophobe-omik, who destroyed Russia a century ago, but was then rendered harmless by the saviors of Russia, but now he has destroyed Russia and leading its people to extinction.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        That is how your Russophobes -omics destroyed Russia from 1917 to 1991. There were no others in power

                        That's right - your Russophobes -omiks were destroyed from 1917 to 1922. And they are being destroyed since 1991.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        stupid power obdlvsya power bankrupt - from 1917 to 1991

                        Compared to the former before and after - the standard of reason and success.
                        No need
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Have you ever bitten anyone to increase the number of decayed zombies?

                        That is, you? So there is no need - the number of you does not matter - you are always powerless against us. Yes
                      20. -4
                        31 October 2021 11: 58
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Non-existent I will not name, but existing ones to you, a liar, have been called many times.

                        NONE of them are named, liar, for they have never been with your cowards, liar
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Modern lies about those events - yes, it is well known

                        THE TRUTH is already well known - about multi-million deaths, cannibalism and corpse-eating among the people of the "GOOD" country and lies your ANTI-people about the WELL-BEING people of the terrible February 1933 have long been exposed
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        In 1917, the age-old kingdom disappeared

                        in 1917 year A kingdom of hunger and horror of lawlessness has appeared in the dark red wild Middle Ages with its tens of millions of corpses from hunger, mass cannibalism, millions exiled without trial, hundreds of thousands shot, with the dictatorship of one party of beaters.
                        This is evidenced by documents that are classified by the authorities themselves and just common sense.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Verne

                        That's right - my interlocutor is so-sing, ty and vy. Typical Russophobe-omik who destroyed Russia and led its people to extinction
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        On

                        That is how your Russophobes -omics destroyed Russia from 1917 to
                        1991. There were no others in power

                        stupid obdlvsya power bankrupt - from 1917 to 1991
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        That is

                        that is, they did not answer a simple question: did you at least bit someone in order to increase the number of decayed zombies?
                      21. 0
                        31 October 2021 15: 45
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        NO ONE named

                        Named many times, liar. Personally, you incl.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The TRUTH is already well known

                        That's it. That now a lot of lies about that time.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        in 1917, the kingdom of hunger and horror of lawlessness appeared

                        In 1917, the age-old kingdom of hunger and lawlessness disappeared, a life appeared in which people ate much better and there was incomparably more freedom. According to people who have the opportunity to compare on their own experience. And just by common sense.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        That's right - my interlocutor is so-sing, ty and vy. Typical Russophobe-omik who destroyed Russia and led its people to extinction

                        That's right - my interlocutor is such a sing, that and that. A typical Russophobe-omik, who destroyed Russia a century ago, but was then rendered harmless by the saviors of Russia, but now he has destroyed Russia and leading its people to extinction.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        That is how your Russophobes -omics destroyed Russia from 1917 to
                        1991. There were no others in power

                        That's right - your Russophobes -omiks were destroyed from 1917 to 1922. And they are being destroyed since 1991.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        stupid obdlvsya power bankrupt - from 1917 to 1991

                        Compared to the former before and after - the standard of reason and success.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        that is, they did not answer a simple question

                        He answered directly and accurately - no, in order to increase the number of you, we do not bite anyone or anything. laughing
                      22. -4
                        31 October 2021 15: 54
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Named many times, liar. L

                        there was no liar, nothing was named, for there were none, liar.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        That's it. That now a lot of lies about that time.

                        about the LIE through time, only today the truth is spoken, and then it was NOT at all. FALSE - the basic definition of the state of the time
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Disappeared in 1917

                        in 1917 APPEARED the kingdom of hunger and horror of lawlessness in the red gloomy wild Middle Ages with its tens of millions of corpses from hunger, mass cannibalism, millions exiled without trial, hundreds of thousands shot, with the dictatorship of one party of beats, which had NEVER been seen before.

                        That's right - my interlocutor is so-sing, ty and vy. Typical Russophobe-omik who destroyed Russia and led its people to extinction

                        Exactly-your Russophobes -omics destroyed Russia from 1917 to
                        1991. There were no others in power
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        He answered directly and accurately - no, in order to increase the number of you, we do not bite anyone or anything

                        without biting, there will be no rotting zombies. You are not.
                      23. -1
                        1 November 2021 17: 02
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        there was no liar, nothing was named, for there were none, liar.

                        It was a liar. And the facts were and they were called more than once, a liar. And you admitted these facts.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        about LIE through time, only today the truth is spoken

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        and then it was NOT at all. FALSE - the basic definition of the state of the time

                        Two statements - and both are absolute lies. No reservations. "only today they say the truth" ... fool
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        in 1917, the kingdom of hunger and horror of lawlessness appeared

                        In 1917, the age-old kingdom of hunger and lawlessness disappeared, a life appeared in which people ate much better and there was incomparably more freedom. According to people who have the opportunity to compare on their own experience. And just by common sense.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        That's right - my interlocutor is so-sing, ty and vy. Typical Russophobe-omik who destroyed Russia and led its people to extinction

                        That's right - my interlocutor is such a sing, that and that. A typical Russophobe-omik, who destroyed Russia a century ago, but was then rendered harmless by the saviors of Russia, but now he has destroyed Russia and leading its people to extinction.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        That is how your Russophobes -omics destroyed Russia from 1917 to
                        1991. There were no others in power

                        That's right - your Russophobes -omiks were destroyed from 1917 to 1922. And they are being destroyed since 1991.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        there will be no rotting zombies without biting.

                        Won't it be without biting? So you get a start from the dampness?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        You are not

                        Let's admit. But your fear of us is there. Yes
                      24. -4
                        2 November 2021 10: 18
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        It was a liar. And the facts were and they were called more than once, a liar. And you admitted these facts

                        there was no election, FARS was stupid, a liar. And it was not named (for there is nothing), a liar. And there is nothing to admit, liar.

                        about the LIE is great. time only today is the truth and they say


                        and then it was NOT at all. FALSE - the basic definition of the state of the time
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        In 1917, the age-old kingdom of hunger disappeared

                        in 1917 year A kingdom of hunger and horror of lawlessness appeared in the dark red wild Middle Ages with its tens of millions of corpses from hunger, mass cannibalism, millions exiled without trial, hundreds of thousands shot, with the dictatorship of one party of beaters, which was NEVER before these beats.

                        That's right - my interlocutor is so-sing, ty and vy. Typical Russophobe-omik who destroyed Russia and led its people to extinction

                        That is how your Russophobes -omics destroyed Russia from 1917 to
                        1991. There were no others in power
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Won't it be without biting? So you get a start from the dampness?

                        you do not exist at all, even biting does not help decayed zombies
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Let's admit. But your fear of us is there

                        how can you be afraid of what ... is not? fool
                      25. 0
                        2 November 2021 16: 18
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        there was no election, FARS was stupid, a liar. And it was not named (for there is nothing), a liar.

                        It was a liar. And the facts were and they were called more than once, a liar.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        And there is nothing to admit, liar.

                        Did you, liar, admit what was not? fool laughing
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        about the LIE is great. time only today is the truth and they say
                        and then it was NOT at all. FALSE - the basic definition of the state of the time

                        Two statements - and both are absolute lies.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        in 1917, the kingdom of hunger and horror of lawlessness appeared

                        In 1917, the age-old kingdom of hunger and lawlessness disappeared, a life appeared in which people ate much better and there was incomparably more freedom. According to people who have the opportunity to compare on their own experience. And just by common sense.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        That's right - my interlocutor is so-sing, ty and vy. Typical Russophobe-omik who destroyed Russia and led its people to extinction

                        That's right - my interlocutor is such a sing, that and that. A typical Russophobe-omik, who destroyed Russia a century ago, but was then rendered harmless by the saviors of Russia, but now he has destroyed Russia and leading its people to extinction.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        That is how your Russophobes -omics destroyed Russia from 1917 to
                        1991. There were no others in power

                        That's right - your Russophobes -omiks were destroyed from 1917 to 1922. And they are being destroyed since 1991.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        you do not exist at all, even biting does not help decayed zombies

                        But your fear of us is there.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        how can you be afraid of what ... is not?

                        So there is, since you are afraid. To the horror. Yes
                      26. 0
                        22 December 2021 16: 47
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Where speculators have not yet been crushed - relics of the tsarist eternally hungry antiquity.

                        And here is the aforementioned "traitors - speculators" are to blame!
      4. +3
        17 October 2021 18: 37
        And this free trade only led to price hikes and the enrichment of speculators.
      5. 0
        21 November 2021 14: 08
        Quote: Olgovich
        Only now it turned out quite the opposite: Germany did not come out weakened, but strengthened many times over, and the USSR was left alone


        Whose fault is it? Maybe the French themselves are to blame, and the British too, that they were badly prepared for the war?

        Would Hitler have attacked the USSR until he had finished with France? He's not a complete idiot.
        And even if the USSR was able to conclude an alliance with the "democracies" - how strong the alliance would be?
        Considering how bourgeois Britain and France "threw" bourgeois Czechoslovakia and Poland - how would they fulfill their allied obligations to the USSR?
        It is also good that Stalin, having concluded the Pact, put Japan out of the game, and Germany was unable to conclude an alliance with Britain.
        1. 0
          22 December 2021 16: 53
          Quote: Illanatol
          Would Hitler have attacked the USSR until he had finished with France? He's not a complete idiot.

          Hitler attacked the USSR without finishing England. Optimist, sir.
          Also the USA declared war in the process.
          Quote: Illanatol
          Considering how bourgeois Britain and France "threw" bourgeois Czechoslovakia and Poland - how would they fulfill their allied obligations to the USSR?

          The USSR is not Poland or Czechoslovakia, if you throw it, it’s more expensive. Already during the Winter War it was clear that the West supports the Finns only morally, because a serious confrontation with the USSR is more dear to itself.
          Quote: Illanatol
          Germany was unable to conclude an alliance with England.

          An alliance with England is Hitler's pipe dreams. England needed a strong Germany like a dog a stick
    5. -7
      17 October 2021 12: 06
      Purely militarily worthy, there were victories and defeats, but catastrophes, as in 1941-42. did not have. But this is how the state organism of the Russian Empire was clearly ill and was ruled by incapable people, first of all, of course, Nicholas II.
      Here Stalin set an example - how to do everything for the front, everything for victory.
      The author greatly simplifies history, is tendentious, like a Short Course in the History of the VKPB.
      In general, the training of Russian officers and generals, soldiers, especially in the initial period of the war, was good, although, of course, there were many incapable, but when were they not?
      Well written by K.K. Rokossovsky, for example, at the expense of the mob plan of tsarist Russia. He noted that in the post-October period, the tsarist generals were presented as stupid retrogrades, but studying the plan they had developed, he was convinced of the opposite, but whether a normal mob plan in the Red Army remained for the marshal covered in darkness until the end of his days.
      The Russian Empire, due to internal reasons, and not because of military failures, did not wait for the collapse of Germany for literally six months ... But ... history does not accept the subjunctive mood ...
      1. +8
        17 October 2021 12: 13
        Purely militarily worthy

        Purely in military terms, fundamentally different conditions, if RI had any kind of military treaty with France at the beginning of the war and Germany really had to fight on two fronts, and the main one was the Western one, then the USSR was forced to drag on land alone.
    6. +3
      17 October 2021 13: 45
      Such rabble as the monarchist family itself began to decompose the army. By the way, let's launch a petition to award Nicholas II the Order of the October Revolution for creating a revolutionary situation in the country.
      1. +2
        18 October 2021 16: 08
        Quote: Maksud
        Such rabble as the monarchist family itself began to decompose the army. By the way, let's launch a petition to award Nicholas II the Order of the October Revolution for creating a revolutionary situation in the country.

        Anecdote 1967 - to life! smile
    7. -1
      18 October 2021 14: 50
      Your objectivity and education is widely revealed in the manner of expressing thoughts. "Dregs" are our ancestors who created the greatest country with an immense heritage that changed the world. All the best to you, do not write yet.
  2. +18
    17 October 2021 06: 16
    There were so many articles about what kind of tsarist Russia was economically and industrially advanced, but my question is why they could not provide themselves with weapons and ammunition, transport and food having such a good economy? Germany was head and shoulders above in heavy artillery, machine guns, supplies, having a much smaller resource base.
    1. -8
      17 October 2021 10: 20
      Quote: Pessimist22
      why couldn't they provide themselves with weapons and ammunition, transport and food having such a good economy?


      why go so far?
      Answer a question from the not so distant past.
      How did it happen that from 1989-1991 there was a DEFICIENCY OF PRODUCTS in the country?
      And it is that everyone admits that the harvests were quite sufficient to fully provide for the population.

      It is quite obvious that all these DEFICITS create power in 1989-91, they were communists / CPSU, and in 1916-17 they were tsarist ministers and officials. Moreover, it is clear that the orders were issued from the very top, in those days, apparently, everything came from the tsar, he betrayed Russia when he surrendered power. And during the years of our troubled times it was Gorbachev and Yeltsin with accomplices, the communists.
      1. -8
        17 October 2021 10: 32
        Quote: Bar1
        Moreover, it is clear that the orders were given from the very top, in those days, apparently everything came from the tsar, he betrayed Russia when he surrendered power.

        He was betrayed by the command of the army and he was actually arrested by General Ruzsky (later the Bolsheviks would kill him). So it's not that simple here.
        1. -8
          17 October 2021 12: 18
          Quote: Dart2027
          He was betrayed by the command of the army and he was actually arrested by General Ruzsky (later the Bolsheviks would kill him). So it's not that simple here.


          stop repeating stupid propaganda.
          For the tsar was practically ALL RUSSIA, the army, the police, the press, the Cossacks, and the fact that several generals, grand dukes and ministers suddenly began to oppose is not a reason to surrender power.
          Nicholas just had to replace these generals, as Stalin did, and everything would remain in place.
          Russia was unshakable as long as the POWER was in. Exactly so: a handful of generals could not destroy Russia, but as soon as the power collapsed, different opinions immediately appeared, i.e. democracy and freedom to chat, whatever. And the suspiciously weak provisional government of the Jew Kerensky.

          Collapse / Troubles in Russia is ALWAYS only one reason when the country does not have a king.
          1. +1
            17 October 2021 13: 56
            Quote: Bar1
            stop repeating stupid propaganda.
            For the tsar was almost ALL RUSSIA, the army, the police, the press, the Cossacks

            Quote: Bar1
            Nikolai just had to replace these generals

            Arrested and cut off from anyone? How was he supposed to do it? His attempts to give orders to the troops were intercepted and sabotaged.
            Quote: Bar1
            And the suspiciously weak provisional government of the Jew Kerensky.

            What is there suspicious - a traitor. The generals betrayed only the tsar, and this one purposefully destroyed Russia.
            1. -8
              17 October 2021 15: 50
              Quote: Dart2027
              Arrested and cut off from anyone? How was he supposed to do it?

              The Emperor was not allowed to leave the Headquarters.

              Where EVERYTHING and EVERYTHING absolutely obeyed him until the very last moment.

              It was not him who had to go to his family, but to take her out to Mogilev
              Quote: Dart2027
              His attempts to give orders to the troops were intercepted and sabotaged.

              for example?
              Quote: Dart2027
              The generals betrayed only the tsar, and this one purposefully destroyed Russia.

              no one betrayed him: the headquarters had to decide something after ALREADY held in St. Petersburg of the revolution, the disappeared government, blackmail of the VKGD and the absent blocked commander during the ongoing Great War. And it was about renunciation in favor of the son.

              It was impossible for him to leave Headquarters ...
              1. +3
                17 October 2021 16: 40
                Quote: Olgovich
                The Emperor was not allowed to leave the Headquarters.
                Where EVERYTHING and EVERYTHING absolutely obeyed him until the very last moment.

                Shouldn't they have obeyed him outside of headquarters?
                Quote: Olgovich
                and the absent blocked commander

                So who was blocking it?
                1. -5
                  18 October 2021 10: 17
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  Shouldn't they have obeyed him outside of headquarters?

                  must.
                  But there was no longer an opportunity to command.
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  So who was blocking it?

                  VKGD, first of all.

                  Not Bet and Alekseev
                  1. 0
                    18 October 2021 20: 17
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    But there was no longer an opportunity to command.

                    Well, if they refused to obey him when he left the headquarters, then why do you think that he would not be arrested in it?
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    VKGD, first of all.
                    Not Bet and Alekseev

                    General Ruzsky. It was the military who provided force support; without their consent, the State Duma would have sat quietly and silently.
                    1. -2
                      19 October 2021 07: 55
                      Quote: Dart2027
                      Well, if they refused to obey him when he left the headquarters, then why do you think that he would not be arrested in it?

                      WHO refused, WHEN refused at the Headquarters? What the hell is this?
                      I ask again, WHAT was not done before March 2?
                      Quote: Dart2027
                      General Ruzsky. It was the military who provided force support; without their consent, the State Duma would have sat quietly and silently.

                      she was not silent, but clearly said that ALL roads and carriages would stop immediately. The front was left without a rear into the war.
                      1. 0
                        19 October 2021 19: 53
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        WHO refused, WHEN refused at the Headquarters? What the hell is this?

                        The already mentioned general who arrested him. Shouldn't he have obeyed? Should. Obeyed? no. Could it be an amateur performance? Unlikely.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        she was not silent, but clearly said that ALL roads and transportations would stop immediately

                        After that, a couple of divisions will be removed from the front (there were no super-intense battles then) and they will quickly clear the way.
                      2. -2
                        20 October 2021 10: 41
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The already mentioned general who arrested him. Shouldn't he have obeyed? Should. Obeyed? no. Could it be an amateur performance? Unlikely.

                        On March 2, there was a revolution that had already taken place, which the emperor carried out on the train, instead of Headquarters.

                        Until March 2 (except 0 ALL obeyed the Impretor - read the same telegram from Alekseev to him.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        After that, a couple of divisions will be removed from the front (there were no super-intense battles then) and they will quickly clear the way.

                        throughout the country (and this was exactly what was discussed)? The army was left without a rear, which doomed it
                      3. 0
                        20 October 2021 19: 07
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        On March 2, there was a revolution that had already taken place, which the emperor carried out on the train, instead of Headquarters.

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        throughout the country (and this was exactly what was discussed)?

                        AND? Yes, a riot began in the capital - what would have changed if the emperor at Headquarters?
                      4. -2
                        21 October 2021 08: 08
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        AND? Yes, a riot began in the capital - what would have changed if the emperor at Headquarters?

                        he is in an army that obeys him and is free in his actions
                      5. 0
                        21 October 2021 19: 24
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        he is in an army that obeys him and is free in his actions

                        And the army obeyed him? I have already written about General Ruzsky, in addition, being actually arrested, he received letters from other generals, including Alekseev and Brusilov, stating that they also demand his abdication.
                      6. -2
                        22 October 2021 07: 38
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And the army obeyed him?

                        until March 1 inclusively.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        received letters from other generals, including Alekseev and Brusilov, stating that they also demanded his abdication.

                        asked in the conditions of an ALREADY held revolution, loss of control, i.e. ALREADY the departed train.

                        The key days of February 28 and March 1 are irretrievably and aimlessly lost.
                      7. 0
                        22 October 2021 19: 37
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        until March 1 inclusively.

                        And then she betrayed her all at once? And without even the slightest thought that the riot should be suppressed?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        in the conditions of an ALREADY held revolution, loss of control, i.e. ALREADY the departed train.

                        Then again to the question - well, what would have changed if he were at Headquarters? Well, would he be there next? A riot is in the capital.
          2. +5
            17 October 2021 16: 43
            Quote: Bar1
            Nicholas just had to replace these generals, as Stalin did, and everything would remain in place.

            Ministers, incl. military, Nikolai, however, changed a lot. Did you change those? Or is it not so? bully
      2. 0
        21 November 2021 14: 16
        Quote: Bar1
        How did it happen that from 1989-1991 there was a DEFICIENCY OF PRODUCTS in the country?
        And it is that everyone admits that the harvests were quite sufficient to fully provide for the population.


        The deficits were created artificially. What for? To convince the electorate of the need for "market reforms" (in fact - in the restoration of colonial capitalism).
        Our rulers were no longer communists, but real renegades who envied the Rockefellers.

        And the mechanics are simple: the state monopoly of foreign trade was actually abolished. Due to the difference between internal and external prices, the goods went "over the hill". The titanium shovels were taken out in echelons, to say nothing of grain. Moreover, it was not only large firms that were taken out, but individual shuttle traders.
        And the scarcity made it possible to make fortunes very quickly. If anyone dreams of returning the total deficit, it is not the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, but the current businessmen. Those were golden days for them.
    2. +9
      17 October 2021 10: 43
      having such a good economy?
      It (the economy) was good only in the minds of those stricken with the "hurray-monarchist" syndrome. In the complete absence of logical and critical thinking. And no facts and as a consequence of the event (defeat in the war) are not able to break through this monarchist barrier!
    3. 0
      17 October 2021 13: 14
      Quote: Pessimist22
      but I have a question, why could not they provide themselves with weapons and ammunition, transport and food having such a good economy?

      Tsarist bureaucracy incapable of long-term planning, system entries, the incompetence of officials of the Ministry of War, careerists and nominees, maybe? Well, let's say, one thing: a pointed bullet to the mosinka cartridge was introduced already in 1908, but the rifles in the mob-stock were not re-equipped with Kazarinov's cut-off reflector - it became clear already during the war! V.G. Fedorov recalled an episode in May 1915, when a soldier was fixing a cartridge finger:
      “The soldier standing next to me tirelessly released one clip after another, apparently aiming poorly. Opening the bolt, he sometimes adjusted the cartridge with his finger.

      - What are you doing? Why are you sticking your finger in the store?

      - So dexterous, your vagabond!

      The Germans hid in the trenches. The firing on command fell silent. I took the rifle from the shooter and began to load it myself. The shooter was right: you can't do without a finger. The rifle was not debugged for firing sharp-pointed bullets - it had the old cutoff, and when reloading, the cartridge rested against the front wall of the chamber.

      - Why don't you tell the platoon commander about the malfunction of the rifle?

      - She, you vagabond, shoots very well for me, a very good rifle, sometimes you just need to touch it up with your finger ...

      ... Subsequent inspections in various regiments and armies showed that in some units the number of rifles with incorrect cartridge feed accounted for almost a third of the total. It was a real scourge for the troops. Such a rifle turned, in fact, into a single shot. Its rate of fire decreased by at least one and a half times.

      You can, of course, mumble about what they were hoping for the transience of the war, but, for God's sake - the first reports began to arrive already in October 14-th.
      Comrade V.M. Lukomsky:
      The percentage of damage to rifles in the troops, due to poor care and the percentage of damage and loss of them in battles, was so great that all calculations of peacetime turned out to be useless.
  3. -1
    17 October 2021 06: 32
    The enemies of the communists use even the facts in the history of their country and people for the sake of profit to justify their capture of the USSR.
    Here, the entry of the Republic of Ingushetia into the First World War, and the USSR into the Afghan one were for the sake of "friendly regimes." BUT the enemies of the communists believe that Nicholas II had every right to involve Russia and the Russian people in the war for the sake of helping France and Serbia, to kill 3 million Russian subjects in the war, to surrender to the Germans the territories in which more than 20 million Russian subjects lived, and the Bolsheviks after the October Revolution they were OBLIGED to continue the war, to win back from the Germans the Russian territories surrendered to them by Nicholas II.
    And the entry of the USSR into the Afghan one was almost a communist crime, and the enemies of the communists had every right to lead the USSR out of this war.
    1. -9
      17 October 2021 06: 52
      Quote: tatra
      BUT the enemies of the communists believe that Nicholas II had every right to drag Russia and the Russian people into the war for the sake of helping France and Serbia

      And who there declared war on whom do not remember? And who was the first to announce the mobilization?
      Quote: tatra
      And the entry of the USSR into the Afghan one is almost a communist crime.

      It was necessary to put your leader to help him with advisers, weapons, intelligence, money, air strikes, etc. The introduction of troops was indeed stupid.
      1. -1
        17 October 2021 07: 20
        Ha, thank you for confirming my words about you enemies of the communists.
        From the "book of memoirs" by Grand Duke Alexander Mikhailovich
        About the beginning of the war: "In a conversation with me, he escaped a confession that he could have avoided war if he had decided to change France and Serbia, but that he did not want this. No matter how fatal and one-sided the Franco-Russian alliance was, Russia wanted to comply with the accepted commitments ".
        And the German ambassador three times proposed to the Russian ambassador Sazonov to cancel the mobilization of Russian troops on the border with Austria-Hungary, and only after the third refusal on behalf of Germany he declared war on the Russian Empire.
        1. -3
          17 October 2021 08: 01
          Quote: tatra
          And the German ambassador three times proposed to the Russian ambassador Sazonov to cancel the mobilization of Russian troops on the border with Austria-Hungary.

          And the king several times proposed to cancel the mobilization of AB. However, do not argue with the fact that Russia was not the first to start it.
          Quote: tatra
          In a conversation with me, he escaped a confession that he could have avoided war.

          After which I would be left alone with the triple alliance. Continue?
          1. -2
            17 October 2021 08: 06
            The Russian army entered the First World War by invading East Prussia.
            1. -6
              17 October 2021 09: 14
              Quote: tatra
              The Russian army entered the First world by invasion

              Quote: Dart2027
              And who there declared war on whom do not remember? And who was the first to announce the mobilization?
              1. -2
                17 October 2021 09: 21
                FROM GERMAN NOTE ON THE DECLARATION OF THE WAR OF RUSSIA AUGUST 1, 1914
                “... The German government saw itself compelled to appeal to the e. imp vseros. insisting on the cessation of these military activities. Since Russia refused to satisfy this demand (did not consider it necessary to answer this demand) and showed by this refusal (thus action) that its actions were directed against Germany, I have the honor to tell your Excellency the following:
                E. century imp., my august overlord, on behalf of the empire accepts the challenge and considers himself at war with Russia ”
                1. -6
                  17 October 2021 10: 28
                  Quote: tatra
                  FROM GERMAN NOTES ABOUT THE DECLARATION OF WAR IN RUSSIA

                  Who was the first to announce the mobilization?
                  1. -1
                    17 October 2021 11: 11
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    Who was the first to announce the mobilization?

                    AVI. In response to the murder of the state's number two person. The assassinations by an organization of officers and bureaucrats in Serbia. An organization that included, say, the deputy chief of the Serbian General Staff. And only after Serbia sent the Austrians. Openly refusing to cooperate in the investigation of the organization of the murder, and, accordingly, to punish those responsible.
                    In fact, if, then Nikolasha took up the protection of the terrorists. Killing members of the government of a neighboring state. On its own territory. We, in 2008, entered Georgia on a much smaller occasion.
                    1. +2
                      17 October 2021 12: 01
                      Quote: Lannan Shi
                      Openly refusing to cooperate in the investigation of the organization of the murder

                      Refusing to transfer the investigation to interested parties from AB.
                      And with the murder, too, not everything is clean. They usually try not to remember about the role of the AV military.
                      1. +2
                        17 October 2021 12: 25
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Refusing to transfer the investigation to interested parties from AB.

                        The Austro-Hungarian Ultimatum to Serbia
                        6. eine gerichtliche Untersuchung gegen jene Teilnehmen des Komplotts vom 28. Juni einzuleiten, die sich auf serbischem Territorium befinden; von der k. and k. Regierung hiezu delegierte Organe werden an den bezüglichen Erhebungen teilnehmen,
                        Will participate, not investigate. Don't lie about it.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        They usually try not to remember about the role of the AV military.

                        Who was in the black hand? Austrian military, or is it Serbian? But the true role .... So Serbia itself refused to cooperate in the investigation. And we will leave conspiracy and other spiritualism behind the scenes. In view of the fact that all this refers exclusively to fortune telling on the coffee grounds. And the facts are simple. The Black Hand is an organization of Serbian warriors and special services. Serbia categorically refused to punish those responsible, limiting itself to disbanding the terrorist organization. Or maybe just changing the sign .. And ....? AVI actions? To understand and to forgive?
                      2. +1
                        17 October 2021 14: 03
                        Quote: Lannan Shi
                        Will participate, not investigate.

                        And what prevented them from interrogating those arrested later? And what does the government have to do with it?
                        Quote: Lannan Shi
                        Serbia flatly refused to punish those responsible

                        And who was then tried in AB?
                        Quote: Lannan Shi
                        Who was in the black hand? Austrian military, or is it Serbian?

                        Similarly, for some reason, not only Serbs were tried.
                      3. -1
                        17 October 2021 14: 38
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And what prevented them from interrogating those arrested later?

                        Serbia's position. Denied AVI access to the organizers of the murder in particular, and the terrorist organization as a whole.
                        Honey, this is not a joke by the way. The Serbian General Staff and intelligence are creating an organization that openly prepares militants for armed terror in their neighbors, brings down the second face of the state, and then openly sends victims. Openly declaring that he will not extradite the terrorists.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And who was then tried in AB?

                        Performers. And the organizers .... They gathered to catch themselves. According to the Serbs. There is no need to talk about white-furred and poverty-stricken Serbia. She has become a predator for herself, by the beginning of the 20th century, we recall the second Balkan, yeah. The caliber was just too small. And among the beneficiaries, from PMV, Serbia is number one. If we evaluate not the total volume, but by the ratio it was before the PMA - it became after the PMA. I'm not going to chew on the details of the alignment of internal forces in Serbia, before WWI, for it is long and dreary, but the fact remains. The organization that initiated the PMA is purely Serbian, it was created by the Serbian army and intelligence, some of the leaders of this organization flourished right up to the socialist Yugoslavia, entering its government, it was Serbia that received the maximum benefits from PMA. No picture emerges of poor Serbs tortured by evil Austrians. But the image of the idiot nikki, who got involved in the brothers, who never in history have supported Russia - in full growth. Here is at least one example, when Serbia was on the side of Russia / USSR? Only when she herself was pressed, and there was no one else to lean against. And as soon as we weakened ... They immediately forgot their brotherhood.
                        That's all. For tired of explaining that terrorism is not good. And not only ordinary militants should sit / lie down, but also their superiors.
                      4. -2
                        17 October 2021 15: 27
                        Quote: Lannan Shi
                        Serbian general staff and intelligence create an organization that openly prepares militants for armed terror

                        But the terrorists themselves denied that they were connected with the Serbian government.
                        Quote: Lannan Shi
                        Serbian general staff and intelligence create an organization that openly prepares militants for armed terror in their neighbors

                        And she flunked a lot? I don’t remember anyone other than the Archduke, a strange organization, then some failures, then a terrorist attack of the century. Not to mention that the assassination attempt was successful solely thanks to:
                        a) the recklessness of the victim himself, who, after the first (unsuccessful) attack, drove across the city;
                        b) the fact that the driver accidentally drove into the wrong street, as a result of which the motorcade stopped and the Archduke turned into an ideal target, which is typical exactly where the terrorist with a pistol was (coincidence, yes);
                        c) the fact that the heir to the throne was practically not guarded.
                        And why were there such lenient sentences to the participants in the murder?
                        And another question - why was the heir to the throne buried with minimal honors and not even in the royal crypt?
                        Who is to blame, Serbs?
                        There is no picture of poor Austrians tortured by evil Serbs.
                      5. +4
                        17 October 2021 16: 28
                        Quote: Dart2027

                        And she flunked a lot? I don’t remember anyone but the Archduke

                        Many. Including the Serbs. The last Obrenovich, for example. Oh yes, now declare that the black hand did not exist then. Fact. Did not have. Here are just the same persons involved. They roamed from black to white, from young Bosna to black, and to young Bosna from the mountain headquarters, thoroughly official, when they did without stupid formalities at all. Like we got together for a beer and decided - and not to kick our little king, well, they kicked it, without thinking twice. The names are different - the personalities at the head are at least the same. It was these very individuals obsessed with the mega-serbia mania that laid the foundation for PMA. Rejecting the most innocuous of all ultimatum clauses. And according to the mind, then these geeks should have been shot like mad dogs. What the Serbs themselves did with them a little later, by the way. Which frankly ostozvizd the chaos that these characters were constantly arranging. And Russia harnessed to the outlaws ...... Well, kicking novels and got what he wanted. Harnessed for the murderers of Obrenovich? They slapped himself. Didn't want a war? It was necessary for another year that way, in 1905-1910, to warn openly - create problems, you yourself will rake them. And not to protect the Serbian ultra-Nazis.
                      6. 0
                        17 October 2021 16: 44
                        Quote: Lannan Shi
                        Oh yes, now declare that the black hand did not exist then. Fact. Did not have. That's just

                        This was an internal affair of the Serbs. But in AB, for some reason, they were chronically unlucky, and then bam and ...
                        Quote: Lannan Shi
                        Rejecting the most innocuous of all ultimatum clauses.

                        Is the appearance of AB employees in the government of their country harmless? Hmm.
                        Quote: Lannan Shi
                        It was these very individuals obsessed with the mega-serbia mania that laid the foundation for PMA.

                        Seriously? All because of them.
                        Well, there will be no answers to questions about the oddities of AV?
                      7. -3
                        17 October 2021 16: 28
                        Quote: Lannan Shi
                        Serbia's position.

                        Only dull feet can think that world wars are beginning ... because of some kind of murder, and not being prepared for years, and Avengria was not shoved in the back by a long-prepared and war-hungry Germany.

                        Gosterrorism is the annexation of BiH by Avengria against the will of the population and it is not for her to be surprised at the answers to this.

                        Serbia did not attack Austria, nor did it organize the murders. And Avengria, yes.

                        Quote: Lannan Shi
                        ... She has become a predator for herself, by the beginning of the 20th century, we recall the second Balkan, yeah.

                        laurels, yeah ...

                        EBV was started by Bulgaria, which attacked Serbia without declaring war.
                      8. 0
                        22 December 2021 17: 05
                        Quote: Lannan Shi
                        The organization that initiated the PMA is purely Serbian

                        MB's first man on the fateful Franz-Ferdinand route is a Bosniak Muslim
                2. +2
                  18 October 2021 09: 43
                  Quote: tatra
                  FROM GERMAN NOTE ON THE DECLARATION OF THE WAR OF RUSSIA AUGUST 1, 1914

                  You know, if you look at the note about the declaration of war in 1941, then there will also be continuous accusations towards the USSR. It is foolish to declare war with the words "I want so much", so they are looking for excuses on the principle "I am kind, you just forced me."
                  Trusting such documents is not particularly worth it.
            2. -2
              17 October 2021 15: 57
              Quote: tatra
              The Russian army entered the First World War by invading East Prussia.

              Stupid lie: on August 2, the German invaders subjected the civilian population of the Russian city of Kalish to a cruel massacre in the spirit of the Nazis of WWII, in addition to destroying it with artillery fire and burning.
      2. -2
        17 October 2021 11: 44
        And the entry of the USSR into the Afghan one is almost a communist crime.

        It was necessary to put your leader to help him with advisers, weapons, intelligence, money, air strikes, etc. The introduction of troops was indeed stupid.

        The most amazing thing is that Hafizullah Amin was also “his own”. A Marxist since 1958, it was he who for the first time in the history of the DRA openly declared that a socialist society was being built in the country.

        He, like Taraki's predecessor (whom Amin killed), insisted on the introduction of Soviet troops into Afghanistan, but received only a Muslim battalion for protection. laughing

        In principle, no storming of the palace was needed, one could simply summon Amin to Moscow and leave him there.
        But the CIA, through its agents in the highest echelons of the USSR, played out the combination clearly. bully
        1. 0
          22 December 2021 17: 13
          Quote: Arzt
          But the CIA, through its agents in the highest echelons of the USSR, played out the combination clearly.

          A beautiful anecdote.

          After 1991, the USA in interesting ways obtained some information about the KGB agents in the USA and the hair of some people stood on end in some places: in every structure and every branch of the military, besides the nuclear ones, there were not just many, but full of double agents and informants ...

          Why were the Soviet "active measures" not so powerful?
          1. 0
            22 December 2021 17: 40
            A beautiful anecdote.

            After 1991, the USA in interesting ways obtained some information about the KGB agents in the USA and the hair of some people stood on end in some places: in every structure and every branch of the military, besides the nuclear ones, there were not just many, but full of double agents and informants ...

            Why were the Soviet "active measures" not so powerful?

            Here is how his former subordinate, communications captain Aziz Jandad, characterizes Amin:

            In fact, our President Hafizullah Amin, who was killed by your special forces, was a devout communist! He idolized Stalin! I allowed myself to drink alcohol only 2 times a year - November 7 and May 9! These are not Afghan great dates! These are your holidays, which he loved and observed more than the laws of Sharia!

            Amin was sincerely devoted to the Soviet Union, trusted only Soviet specialists, was completely under the control of Soviet political and military advisers, did not take a step without consulting them. And, we must honestly admit that once his "controllability" helped to avoid a terrible catastrophe! In 1978, after the seizure of power by the People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan, led by Taraki and Amin, the city of Herat revolted. Amin was enraged and ordered to send a squadron of bombers there to wipe out Herat and its inhabitants! But Soviet military advisers convinced him that this was wrong. And he agreed.

            It should be noted that already in 1978, the power in Afghanistan was completely controlled by the Kremlin. All ministers, more or less chiefs, commanders of military units had Soviet backup advisors. Even the head physician of the hospital, or the director of the technical school! Every officer of the Afghan army from major and above was registered and under the control of your KGB! You have been everywhere! You had your finger on the pulse of Afghan life and could interrupt it at any moment!

            And you want to say that in such a situation, the Americans could deploy their missiles in Afghanistan?

            And Amin ... Well, what kind of American spy is he if he idolized Stalin and the USSR?


            The question is - why was it necessary to storm the palace and kill Amin?
            1. 0
              22 December 2021 17: 50
              Did Brezhnev need the Stalinists after the experience of Mao and Hoxha?
              1. 0
                22 December 2021 17: 57
                Did Brezhnev need the Stalinists after the experience of Mao and Hoxha?

                The question is the same. Why stir up this whole operation?
                Call Amin to Moscow for Stalin's birthday, and leave him there.
                1. 0
                  23 December 2021 16: 12
                  Interest Ask
      3. 0
        18 October 2021 16: 15
        At the time of the outbreak of the First World War, the German army had ALREADY been mobilized, which is why it demanded that Russia stop mobilizing. Germany just did not want to fight against Russia. She demanded from France and England to share colonies in Africa. Divide and rule. First France and England, and only then Russia.
    2. -3
      17 October 2021 19: 48
      Quote: tatra
      and the enemies of the communists had every right to lead the USSR out of this war.

      And so the American army was withdrawn from Vietnam by the "enemies of the capitalists"?
      Quote: tatra
      And the entry of the USSR into the Afghan

      Introduction? Perhaps, on the contrary - the war began with the entry of the USSR Armed Forces into Afghanistan? What was happening in the DRA after a series of coups and until December 79th cannot be called a "war".
  4. +1
    17 October 2021 06: 48
    The German victory at Tannenberg paved the way for the First Battle of the Masurian Lakes a week later, where the reinforced German 8th Army now faced the Russian 1st Army and inflicted a crushing defeat on it. Despite more than three times the numerical superiority in the region (250 Germans versus 000 Russians), Russian casualties were nine times greater than those of the Germans.

    The forces of the parties in the East Prussian operation in general:
    Russian
    1st Army - 6,5 infantry and 5,5 cavalry divisions
    2nd Army - 12,5 infantry and 3 cavalry divisions
    Total front - 19 infantry and 8,5 cavalry divisions
    250 fighters
    1140 guns
    Germans:
    14,5 infantry and 1 cavalry division
    173 fighters
    800 guns (without serfs)

    On September 14, 1914, the Masurian battle ended, and with it the entire East Prussian operation of 1914. The Germans (according to their data) lost 14 thousand people in the Masurian battle in killed, wounded and captured, the exact losses of the 1st Russian army in this the battle was not established, but they were higher than the German ones and were at the level of 15-20 thousand people killed, wounded and captured. During the retreat, the army lost over 80 guns.
  5. bar
    -4
    17 October 2021 06: 59
    "Marxist analysis" hurts the eye to the point of complete impossibility of reading the text to the end. The old Soviet textbooks and the institute course "history of the CPSU" were vividly recalled.
    Once it was the norm, but now it looks cheap and primitive.
    1. -7
      17 October 2021 07: 25
      Yes, stop already, enemies of the communists, evaluating the history of your country and people solely for the sake of profit in your anti-Soviet system, which is the only justification for your seizure of the USSR in 30 years, and according to which you praise, justify, defend everything that was before the October Revolution.
      1. bar
        -1
        17 October 2021 07: 53
        Where did you see my praises of what happened before October? Previous articles about how cool it was under tsarism with crispy rolls was also pretty jarring.
        Real life is much more complex and diverse than these primitive popular theories. And there are much more real laws in it than the only and infallible "Marxism". Only very limited people can not see this. The same Chinese have proved it. When the quotation books of the "great helmsman" changed fundamental sciences, technologies, economics, life went completely differently. And it's stupid to argue with that.
        1. -6
          17 October 2021 08: 00
          Do not twist. The primitive enemies of the communists have both the "ideology" and "history" of their country and people primitive.
          To justify the capture of the USSR, slander those from whom they took the country, automatically justifying the crimes of their external and internal enemies, to praise and justify everything and everyone who and what was before those from whom the enemies of the communists took the country, And you are now "outraged "that the article was not written in accordance with your, enemies of the communists, anti-Sovietism.
          1. bar
            -2
            17 October 2021 08: 09
            Exhale already, and get off the armored car. There is no need to look for more anti-Soviet people than such hardened "communists" who themselves ruined the great country of the USSR. And the life of you, sectarians, teaches nothing, unfortunately. I am not going to debate with you on religious topics. According to our constitution, you have every right to freedom of conscience and delusion. Live like this ... hi
            1. -7
              17 October 2021 08: 22
              Well, yes, again, all the same cowardly ideology, like all 30 years of the enemies of the communists who seized the RSFSR, and imposed by them on Russia and the Russian people into the power of the "recovered" members of the CPSU "- and we have nothing to do with it, it's all the communists are to blame" you yourself have proved that you recognize the destruction of the USSR as a crime against the country and the people.
              And I do not need your hysteria, they are not able to adequately conduct a discussion, you want to pass it by.
              1. ABC
                -2
                17 October 2021 08: 29
                Quote: tatra
                Well, yes, again, the same cowardly ideology, like all 30 years of the enemies of the communists who seized the RSFSR

                "The enemies of the communists who seized ..." first the USSR, and then the RSFSR, the communists themselves lovingly raised in their own ranks. And all these enemies were also "communists". It is foolish to argue with this.
                1. -6
                  17 October 2021 08: 42
                  Enough of lying and hypocrisy. With their freedom from the communists, the enemies of the communists proved that you don't care who to pretend to be for the sake of profit at the moment, that the "loyal communists" and their supporters under the communist rule, that the "great philanthropists" whom you pretend to be strictly in your anti-Sovietism to justify the capture of the USSR by you, and outside of it, in relation to the people in the Russian Empire, and the republics of the USSR that you captured, you proved that you do not care about all the victims of the people. How do you portray "philanthropy" for the Soviet citizens who died in the Great Patriotic War, in order to dump them into "victims of Stalin", and proved that you do not care about the 3 million Russian citizens who died in the First World War.
                  1. -6
                    17 October 2021 13: 25
                    Quote: tatra
                    and proved that you do not care about the 3 million Russian citizens who died in the First World War.

                    Moderate your ardor, auntie. It was you, the commies, who swept the history of the First World War under the carpet, preferring to get off with a general propaganda canvas. These "3 million" for you were nameless dust on the rug in front of the door to a bright present and radiant future. You just betrayed them.
                  2. +1
                    17 October 2021 14: 06
                    Quote: tatra
                    and proved that you do not care about the 3 million Russian citizens who died in the First World War

                    Three millions? Where does so much come from ?.
                2. -6
                  17 October 2021 15: 03
                  Quote: ABC
                  It is foolish to argue with this.

                  Well, actually, the "enemies of the communists" have turned into a lurid and artless trade mark, which is a source of pride for Aunt Tatra laughing She considers herself a guru of naming, but if you look closely at her semi-hysterical comments, then this term has no specific content. Well, this is:
            2. -5
              17 October 2021 19: 59
              Quote: bar
              Exhale already, and get off the armored car. There is no need to look for more anti-Soviets than such hardened "communists" who themselves ruined the great country of the USSR. And the life of you, sectarians, teaches nothing, unfortunately. I am not going to debate with you on religious topics.

              Great rebuke. soldier
  6. +15
    17 October 2021 07: 35
    laughing Here, the author has coped with the translation. If you compare the previous text about Sparta and this one, you can see the general style of the authors or the author of the English-language source. Examples:
    A week later, General Ruski
    more thoroughly by the author General Ruzsky. smile Well this is a well-known standard:
    As always in such cases, bloody pogroms were unleashed against the Jews - as a convenient way to divert the soldiers' anger from the true culprits of their suffering.
    There were no Jewish pogroms, but there were German pogroms. One of the eyewitnesses to the German pogrom noted that Jews stood at their shops with placards: "We are not Jews, Jews" and the pogromists passed by. The author apparently uses some kind of Military Encyclopedia, in English. smile
    1. -3
      17 October 2021 08: 04
      But on the other hand, there were mass deportations, which the enemies of the communists "do not remember" because it is unprofitable in their anti-Soviet regime, in which they, with their eternal hypocritical "righteous anger" and "philanthropy", expose mass deportations to the USSR for the crime of the communists, even for genocide ...
      In 1914-1916. deportations due to hostilities affected about 1 million people.
      Even before the official declaration of war on the night of July 18, 1914, the Russian Empire began arresting and deporting subjects of two related empires - Germany and Austria-Hungary. And there were a lot of them (a total of at least 330 thousand people),
      ... Especially harshly dealt with the German population of Volhynia, in the summer of 1915, almost without exception exiled to Siberia.
      They were sent at the expense of the deportees themselves, and if they didn’t have the means, they would be sent as a convict.
      1. -7
        17 October 2021 17: 30
        Quote: tatra
        Especially harshly dealt with the German population of Volhynia, in the summer of 1915, almost without exception exiled to Siberia.
        They were deported at the expense of the deportees themselves, and if they did not have the means, they were sent by stage, as convicts

        You, auntie, would quote quotes from Polyana, or something. Specifically from Volyn, the Germans were evicted to the Nizhny Novgorod, Yaroslavl, Tula, Oryol and Kursk provinces, and not "to Siberia."
        1. -2
          17 October 2021 17: 50
          They were evicted to remote inland areas (in particular, to Vyatka, Vologda and Orenburg provinces, and residents of Siberia and Primorye - to Yakutsk oblast).
          In the second half of 1915, the geography of deportation became seriously "stern": the Trans-Ural part of the Perm province, Turgai region. and the Yenisei province.
          And what, you were "outraged" not by the fact of deportation, as in your anti-Soviet era, the enemies of the communists, but only where were they deported?
          1. -5
            17 October 2021 18: 55
            Your Polyan lies as he breathes, auntie.
            Quote: tatra
            And what, you "outraged"

            Nothing outrages me, only you companions experience strong emotions here. All this talk about the "dramatic inevitability" of forced migrations is, of course, very exciting, yes, sir. But for me personally, deportations are disgusting, regardless of the reason and the authorities conducting them - whether it is V.K. Nikolai Nikolaevich or Stalin & Co. And most of all disgusting is the bidding of the property alienated from the deported Germans. It looks more like looting.

            You, as your Polyan, lump everything into a shapeless heap, dear. It is necessary to separate the Germans of East Prussia, occupied by RIA, and the colonists of the western provinces. To the first, the number of which was small (10 thousand according to German data), the attitude was repressive, yes.
            Characteristic is the response of the scoundrel Yanushkevich (chief of the chief) to the letter of the Minister of Internal Affairs Maklakov with a request to stop evicting the Germans from V. Prussia or, at least, to notify the border authorities about the number of people in the parties and
            provide the poor - especially women and children - with money or provisions, if possible, due to winter time, and warm clothing for the entire journey ...

            The answer of the general's bachelor is remarkable:
            It was ordered to hang, shoot, drive like cattle in front, and transfer almost 50 tons for the treasury is something incredible

            By the way, the Reds in Brest signed an additional agreement, which provided for the return to their homeland of all civilians on the territory of the contracting parties, with payment
            moderate remuneration for the damage caused to them during the war due to their origin
            How the Bolsheviks carried out this agreement (and whether it was carried out at all), to be honest, I do not know.
            What about coloniststhen no
            Quote: tatra
            far hinterland
            they were not "driven around the stage," as your liar Polyan hysterically portrays. Read Reshetov and Nelipovich, from whose research Polyan blinded his funny porridge.
            Well, in general, auntie, it is equally good that yours are red, that Olgovich's sympathizers.
    2. -8
      17 October 2021 12: 05
      Quote: parusnik
      The author apparently uses some kind of Military Encyclopedia, in English.

      Everything is extremely simple, as you know - the most representative focus group on the site is selected and the graphomaniac chas begins for "likes", "clicks" and a trifle from the VO cash desk. The most dramatic, complex theme of the events of the Great War, which gave rise to the tectonic shift of world strata, is set forth "in three tributaries, in three floods" to please "anti-Khrust-baker", "Tsar Tryapkinsky" and other Tatras. This, your will, is akin to prostitution. I can imagine with what vexation professional historians look at all these poorly educated upstarts like Zyryanov, Samsonov and others like that, with their myopia acquired over the years of sitting in the archives. It is a pity that such a topic is left to the mercy of cheap opportunists. hi
      1. +4
        17 October 2021 14: 45
        hi Exactly at the mercy, yesterday about the two Messenian wars and the Peleponnesian Union in one article. Today about the PMV Yes and why, for the sake of please, as written in the source, the author translated it. smile Probably translates alphabetically. Judge for yourself, probably in the source the articles are called as follows: the Messenian Wars, the Peleponnesian Union, the First World War. Moreover, the articles do not have completeness. smile
      2. -4
        17 October 2021 17: 52
        Why do you, enemies of the communists, so hate the truth about the history of your country and people, and especially, about YOURSELF, about what you did under Soviet power, and during your Perestroika, and 30 years after you captured the USSR?
        1. -4
          17 October 2021 19: 10
          Quote: tatra
          so hate the truth about the history of your country and people

          The fact that things and things like you are presented here as "the truth about history" is nothing more than your interpretation, one of a number. The story is a piece of amber with inclusions. You can twirl it this way and that, look at it and come up with deviant theories on the topic "who was this mosquito during its lifetime, whose blood it drank, how it got stuck in the resin and what would happen if", etc.
    3. -3
      17 October 2021 16: 16
      Quote: parusnik
      There were no Jewish pogroms

      Nevertheless, Ilovaisky's thesis that in the empire there are two categories of subjects especially susceptible to the revolutionary infection - the Poles and the Jews - immediately migrated to the army environment. Moreover, sometimes in rather radical forms - the commandant of the fortress Novogeorgievsk gene. Bobyr issued an order that read:
      When occupying settlements, take hostages from the Jewish population, warning that in the event of treasonous activities of any of the local residents, the hostages will be executed

      27.11.1914g.
      The commandant of the Kovno fortress, General Grigoriev, was particularly distinguished in July 1915, who seized 1500 Jews from the garrison's troops and escorted them to prison, and later by a stage in Vilno. Among them were Cavaliers of George and veterans of the RYAV and the Chinese campaign. But the beauty is that Grigoriev shamefully surrendered the fortress, escaping from the battlefield.
      1. +3
        17 October 2021 18: 37
        There were Jewish pogroms in Ingushetia, this is a well-known fact, during WWI they were taken hostage and arrested. But what the author says, there were no pogroms directed directly against the Jews. The pogroms were directed against the German population, but naturally there was not much of a surname. understood, the Jewish population also suffered, I indicated in the commentary that the Jews even tried to indicate their nationality. This is not indicated in the foreign language article. The essence of the comment is that the author simply sculpts other people's articles, on any topics, without delving into their content, and "people hawala".
        1. -4
          17 October 2021 19: 13
          Quote: parusnik
          The essence of the commentary is that the author simply sculpts other people's articles, on any topic, without delving into their content, but "people hawala".

          I agree - Zyryanov is just a peddler, parasitizing on someone else's (more often illiterate) material. hi
        2. 0
          22 December 2021 17: 17
          Ashkenazim and Germans have similar surnames. Yiddish
      2. +1
        18 October 2021 16: 20
        Quote: Ashes of Klaas
        Nevertheless, Ilovaisky's thesis that in the empire there are two categories of subjects especially susceptible to the revolutionary infection - Poles and Jews.

        Right now, the scubents felt offended. smile
  7. +11
    17 October 2021 07: 39
    Throughout the First World War, at every turn, the army leadership was exposed to the poisonous influence of the court clique, especially the queen, who constantly manipulated and intrigued to remove capable men and replace them with their favorites.

    How many of these favorites did she have to deliver such crushing blows to the army leadership during WWI?
    The article as a whole is made in the style of a popularist primitivism.
    1. -2
      17 October 2021 11: 47

      A. Privalov (Alexander Privalov)
      Today, 07: 39
      ... The article as a whole is made in the style of a popularist primitivism.
      Regarding your primitive conclusion, it is your personal gnashing of teeth. Show yourself in-depth knowledge)) in history .... although NO, NOT NECESSARY !!! Your treatises, stupidly reprinted from documents, are of no value at all! Something like this, critic)) you are not ours!fool laughing laughing Look at yourself more often from the side, then you look and people will reach out to you. tongue
    2. -5
      17 October 2021 12: 36
      Quote: A. Privalov
      How many of these favorites did she have to deliver such crushing blows to the army leadership during WWI?

      Eh, everything is Dokhtur Badmaev with his powders))
      Quote: A. Privalov
      The article as a whole is made in the style of a popularist primitivism.

      I liked the Freudian slip of the tongue:
      Quote: A. Privalov
      remove capable men

      It would be necessary to expand this thesis Zyryanov: "... having doubted their manhood ..." laughing
      Anyway, why not collect all Petersburg salon rumors, gossip and urban legends 1915-1916. As I understand it, according to Zyryanov, has Alexandra Fedorovna removed the "capable men" Polivanov and Sazonov?
  8. -6
    17 October 2021 08: 04
    for modern Russia there was a chance to repeat the fate of the Nikolaev Russian Empire. It was only necessary that when the Soviet Union was ruled by Gorbachev, it was necessary for the West to unleash a non-nuclear war in Europe and involve the Gorbachev USSR in this war. Misha would listen to Raisa Maksimovna, just as Nikolai listened to Alexandra Fyodorovna, and there was a whole queue for a vacancy for Rasputin like that under Gorbachev. Russia has never seen more spineless rulers than Nicholas II and Gorbachev.
    But the West, seeing the USSR, forgot about Russia in its mind. Therefore, from the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Eastern Europe and from the Union Republics, from the betrayal by Gorbachev of the entire social. the camp was killed and knocked down only by the USSR, but not Russia. But if the West would not be stunned with happiness that it killed and knocked down the USSR, it would have remembered that there is also Russia and Gorbachev must also kill Russia. By the way, the West caught on and organized a war under Gorbachev, but only in the Caucasus. And then the God of Russia sent Putin and the West is now gnawing at its elbows realizing that it is not enough to kill Russia, it must also be knocked down. Now, if Gorbachev had been in power for the same time as Nicholas II, then Russia would not only have been killed, but would have been overthrown.
    Of course, Putin is not Stalin. But as Stalin saved the Empire, so Putin saved Russia. The ruler after Putin will have to create the New Russian Empire. Putin, most likely, has already betrayed everything he could, even though he saved Russia. Even the savior can't be too strong ...
  9. +3
    17 October 2021 11: 22
    In general, we have the same repetitive mistakes that allow us to talk about their traditional systemic nature. Extreme hurray-conceit, which tends to grow in the interwar periods, often puts us on the brink of defeat, which we historically either pushed through with our advantage in demography and exhausting enemy battles on our territory, or suffered defeat. Sobriety has traditionally been alien to our elites, obsessed with megalomania and, like their own people, held captive by bouquets of various kinds of illusions. For all this, we have to pay the price over and over again, even if we subsequently gain major victories - our demography and national economy suffers colossal damage, a heavy burden hanging for many years after each such war, diverting our resources in the interwar period.
  10. BAI
    +4
    17 October 2021 12: 42
    The attempt on the life of Archduke Ferdinand was organized by the British (this is proven). The goal is to involve Russia in the war, which will, without fail, intercede for Serbia. The result is the fall of the autocracy:
    Lloyd George, having learned about the abdication of Nicholas II: "One of the goals of the war has now been achieved!"
    The ambassador to Petrograd, Buchanan, appealing to the Provisional Government, congratulated the "Russian people" on the revolution. Moreover, he pointed out that the country's main achievement in the revolution is that "she got rid of the enemy." And by "enemy" was understood none other than Nicholas II.
    And after that, someone else wonders why blood-related English monarchs refused to give shelter to Nicholas 2 and his family, but did not hesitate to chop off the Romanovs' family jewels.
    1. -2
      17 October 2021 16: 51
      "Lloyd George, having learned about the abdication of Nicholas II:" One of the goals of the war has now been achieved! "
      Winston Churchill said exactly the same on June 23, 1941, upon learning of the German attack on the USSR: "Today I slept peacefully for the first time in a year."
  11. +4
    17 October 2021 12: 52
    Extremely primitive material.
  12. -4
    17 October 2021 13: 56
    Let's go darling! The imperialists, capitalists, the bourgeoisie ... The author modestly forgot that at the beginning of 1917 Kiev was a rear city, the Germans trampled under Riga and the Turks left Trebizond and almost all of Turkish Armenia.
    1. -2
      17 October 2021 15: 30
      And also the famine in Germany and the fact that the AVI was in a state of flux.
      1. -2
        19 October 2021 08: 56
        AVI breathed and breathed, but still "Brusilovsky breakthrough" and ended in failure. It was not possible to take Vienna, AVI did not come out of the war. And how much effort and resources were invested, Brusilov and his subordinates have nothing to blame: they tried as best they could.
        1. +1
          19 October 2021 11: 22
          Quote: Illanatol
          It was not possible to take Vienna,

          And they took her? Do you remember the date of the storming of Vienna and its heroic defense?
          Quote: Illanatol
          The Brusilov Breakthrough ended in failure.

          The breakthrough itself was quite successful. The subsequent behavior of Brusilov was unsuccessful, when, instead of a rapid advance just in time for Vienna to withdraw it from the war, they began to destroy the guard in the swamps.
          1. -1
            20 October 2021 09: 28
            And they took her? Do you remember the date of the storming of Vienna and its heroic defense?


            No. But the capture of Vienna was the goal of a strategic operation.
            Once we didn't even reach Vienna, it was a failure, definitely.

            The breakthrough itself was quite successful.


            Read above.
            Germany provided assistance to the Austrians, Brusilov had no chance of successfully completing the operation.
            1. 0
              22 December 2021 17: 31
              Vienna was not the main target of the operation. The operation was planned by the forces of three fronts, but - what is the strategic failure - the Northern and Western fronts prepared the offensive poorly, and carried out even worse. In the theoretical case of the success of the entire operation, the Germans simply would not have enough reserves to strengthen three fronts at the same time (to strengthen only the South-West - it was enough), and the subsequent offensive of the Anglo-French would put Germany on the brink of defeat already in 1916.
              1. 0
                23 December 2021 09: 24
                Quote: Ol Willy
                Vienna was not the main target of the operation.


                The main goal of the operation was the complete withdrawal of the AVI from the war. The most reliable way is to take the capital, which is tantamount to complete defeat and inevitable surrender.
                It was not possible to take Vienna, Austria-Hungary did not come out of the war.
                The result is failure.
                1. 0
                  23 December 2021 16: 55
                  Have you seen the map at all? There are 700 kilometers between Lutsk and Vienna.

                  By comparison, during the Great Retreat, the maximum retracement depth was only 500 kilometers.
        2. +2
          19 October 2021 19: 54
          Quote: Illanatol
          It was not possible to take Vienna, AVI did not come out of the war.

          And what did they plan to take then? The tasks were set and they were fulfilled.
    2. -1
      17 October 2021 18: 30
      Well, in an hour I got silent 3 minuses. It seems that the admirers of the Kiev boiler of 41 were saddened, but there are not enough arguments
    3. -1
      19 October 2021 08: 53
      How much is there from Riga to St. Petersburg - the then capital?
      Let us take into account that in 1914 the borders of Russia passed a little further to the west than in June 1941.
      And France then fought stubbornly, pulling off most of the German divisions, and did not stand in a shrimp pose in front of the Fuhrer.
      And how did the "operation in Gallipoli" end? Piled on the janissaries on the invincible Britons, huh?
      1. +2
        19 October 2021 11: 28
        Quote: Illanatol
        How much is there from Riga to St. Petersburg - the then capital?

        Much more than from Volokolamsk to Moscow.
        Let us take into account that in 1914 the borders of Russia passed a little further to the west than in June 1941.

        Yes, they are evil and stupid Russian tsars ... They are even to blame for the fact that they managed to move the border away from a potential aggressor.
        Quote: Illanatol
        And France then fought stubbornly, pulling off most of the German divisions, and did not stand in a shrimp pose in front of the Fuhrer.

        This is one of the main achievements of tsarist diplomacy - providing reliable allies who are ready to fight and die, and not "stand in the pose of a shrimp" (tm)
        But not everyone understands this
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. +2
            19 October 2021 17: 09
            Quote: Illanatol
            More. But still a little. The situation is not brilliant.

            Any "little" is a relative concept. And she has never been brilliant for the Entente. Let's say in 1918 the Germans were able to stop at 60 km. from Paris. But France still did not become defeated from this, right?
            Quote: Illanatol
            Why did Germany suddenly become a "potential aggressor"?

            From the fact that Russia paid special attention to this direction after 1812. And it is for this reason that she decided to annex Poland - to increase the distance to the central part of the country from any possible attacks from the West.
            And who will go there - France, Germany or Luxembourg - is not so important.
            It was we who fought and died for the sake of saving "beautiful France", and not vice versa.

            Yes? Are you sure about that? I will not give exact figures, but France lost at least 1 million soldiers, and Britain lost at least 500 thousand. This is not so little, I must say. Especially considering the total population. And they fought against our enemy, too.
            Why was it not possible to pursue a more reasonable and far-sighted policy towards Germany?

            In 1939 they tried it. I had to fight alone and stop the same "non-aggressors" on the banks of the Volga.
            And where did the cousins ​​Nikki and Willie differ ideologically?

            In the same way that Willie and George's cousins ​​are - Willie's excessive aggressiveness.
            Why was it not possible to pursue a more reasonable and far-sighted policy towards Germany?

            I will surprise you, but history itself answered your question - Nicholas II was absolutely right in entering the war against Germany as part of a strong bloc. Or are you really so naive and believe that having defeated France, letting England go, the Germans will begin to talk to us on equal terms? The invasion of eastern Europe was only a matter of time. And after some quarter of a century, this invasion took place. Or do you really think that Hitler went to fight only against the communists?
            If so, then you are an extremely naive person.
            1. 0
              20 October 2021 09: 56
              But France still did not become defeated from this, right?


              Truth. Including because there was a sane and adequate leadership that did not lose its authority with the nation. Unlike the Russian Empire.

              From the fact that Russia paid special attention to this direction after 1812. And it is for this reason that she decided to annex Poland - to increase the distance to the central part of the country from any possible attacks from the West.


              What events preceded this? How much Russian blood had to be shed for future "potential aggressors" to get rid of the "yoke of Napoleon"?
              For that fought for it and ran.
              Not only RI benefited from the partition of Poland. There were two more powers ... can you remind me which ones?
              They also increased the distance, reducing the distance to us.

              In 1939 they tried it. I had to fight alone and stop the same "non-aggressors" on the banks of the Volga.


              Are you talking about the same Pact?
              Allowed to buy a little time, but most importantly - introduced a split between Germany and Japan.
              They avoided a war on two fronts, in short.

              In the same way that Willie and George's cousins ​​are - Willie's excessive aggressiveness.


              The Britons had something to share with the Germans, their interests intersected in Africa, in the Middle East. But for Russia ... what, the Kaiser wanted to chop off our "living space"?

              Or are you really so naive and believe that having defeated France, letting England go, the Germans will begin to talk to us on equal terms? The invasion of eastern Europe was only a matter of time. And after some quarter of a century, this invasion took place. Or do you really think that Hitler went to fight only against the communists?


              In 1870 Germany (then Prussia) was already sinking France. Russia even won from such an operation by flushing the humiliating conditions of the peace concluded after the defeat in the Crimean War down the toilet.
              This is just your speculation. And in imperial Germany, Hitler would have ended his career as a retired major, breeding geraniums and cacti in retirement.

              And those who were not communists then attacked us as part of the Wehrmacht. Krasnov, Kaledin ... "patriots of the white idea", yeah.
              It was against the communist ideology that it was easiest to mobilize both the Germans and representatives of other European peoples. "Hit the Bolshevik dovs, save them ..." (underline the necessary).
              Although, of course, the goals of that war were not only in the sphere of ideology.
            2. 0
              22 December 2021 17: 38
              Quote: Trapper7
              Or are you really so naive and believe that having defeated France, letting England go, the Germans will begin to talk to us on equal terms?

              Until 1914, Russia and Germany had no conflict of interests at all. Russia had a conflict with the twofold, Germany - with France and England.

              The Germans understood perfectly well that Russia could be defeated, but it would be extremely expensive, especially if RIA does not climb headlong forward, but sits in defensive positions - or even retreats, as it was many times before.
      2. 0
        22 December 2021 17: 33
        Quote: Illanatol
        Let us take into account that in 1914 the borders of Russia passed a little further to the west than in June 1941.

        It's in the north. In the south, the Russian army was stationed in Chernivtsi - which were not part of Russia at all before.
  13. +4
    17 October 2021 14: 27
    Since tsarist Russia was heavily indebted to French finance capital, there could be no question of a refusal to comply with the request of Paris, which in fact looked more like a direct order.

    By the way, I remember how they wrote to me here about the genius, the head of the GAU, Grand Duke Sergei Mikhailovich Romanov ... who drove the country into debt because of his commitment to French manufacturers, while absolutely not providing the army with either artillery or shells ... "geniuses" at the head were difficult not to lose.
  14. +5
    17 October 2021 15: 49
    “So, in July 1915, a rumor appeared in the Vyatka province that“ the emperor sold Przemysl to the enemy for 13 million rubles and for this the supreme commander-in-chief Grand Duke Nikolai Nikolayevich demoted the sovereign to rank-and-file soldiers. ”At the same time, the peasants of the Tobolsk province said:“ We must pray for the soldiers and for the Grand Duke Nikolai Nikolaevich.
    ... And when in August 1915 Nicholas II replaced the Grand Duke in the post of Supreme Commander-in-Chief, many peasants began to predict the defeat of Russia in the war ... "
    ... So, in the protocols drawn up on the facts of insulting His Majesty, there were often cases of comparing the appearance of the emperor with the insane and drunkards familiar to the peasants. “Our sovereign is the emperor, and his face, if you look at it, is so similar to the Elka of Abramovsky (- drunkard - VA). “He does not understand anything, he cannot rule this matter in the war, our sovereign, Akimikha (mentally retarded peasant woman. - VA).
    ... In February 1916, 20-year-old peasant woman Eugenia Ursini wondered about the outcome of the war from the portrait of the sovereign and concluded: “It is unlikely that Russia will defeat Germany, because Russia has no shells, and also outwardly our Russian sovereign looks like a peasant against Wilhelm ...
    ... There were already rumors about the substitution of the tsar. ... In August of the same year (1915), the peasant Ivan Mashkovtsev told his fellow villagers: “Nikolka escaped from us; our state has three underground passages to Germany and one of the palaces, perhaps, went there by car. "
    ... There were rumors in the village that the tsarina was sending the donated funds to Germany, that she was organizing explosions in military warehouses in Russia and in the allied countries - and that she was setting up hospitals for debauchery.
    ... So, in September 1915, the peasants of the Chernigov province reasoned: “The Germans would rather have taken Petrograd, then all this bastard would have been expelled from there. The peasants of the Novgorod province were of the same opinion: “Our tsar has the last life. Let Germany win, for that king it will be better to live. In February 1916, the promises of the Astakhan cabman Polyakov sounded even more radical: "If they take me to the war, I still will not go, but if I go, I will follow Wilhelm and together with him I will thrust an aspen stake into our tsar's ass."
    ... The villagers who hated the autocrat scolded the king, looking at his portraits, and some performed something like a mystical ritual of sending damage - piercing the emperor's eyes, uttering obscene curses and spraying images with blood. In the protocol drawn up in February 1916 on the desecration of the portrait of the sovereign, we read: “The portrait depicts the sovereign emperor, empress empress and the grand duchesses: Olga, Tatiana and Maria Nikolaevna, with holes in the places of the eyes, nose and mouth; there are also holes on the chest of the sovereign emperor, and punctures on the arms of the empress and the grand duchesses. The portrait below is slightly stained with blood on the front side, and large blood spots on the back side. " (Vladislav Aksenov "The Tsar in a Crooked Mirror").
    1. -1
      17 October 2021 18: 38
      Yes, only on the side of Germany did not fight units formed from prisoners of war RIA.
      1. -1
        18 October 2021 15: 37
        But the units fought, formed from the nationalities striving for "independence". Moreover, they were sometimes recruited directly on the territory of R. and.
        On the other hand, on the side of R. and. (unlike the USSR) units formed from prisoners of war of Germany and its allies did not fight.
        1. +1
          19 October 2021 11: 30
          Quote: Sahar Medovich
          On the other hand, on the side of R. and. (unlike the USSR) units formed from prisoners of war of Germany and its allies did not fight.

          The Czechoslovak Corps disagrees with you.
          1. 0
            19 October 2021 14: 28
            Who knows! Compared to how the Czechoslovakians fought for the Red Army, they, one might say, only morally stood for the tsarist army. Not to mention others, others.
    2. -4
      17 October 2021 18: 45
      They all seem to have listed them, but they forgot to mention the baldhead who poured beer in Switzerland about every report of the losses and retreat of RIA in 1915.
      1. -1
        18 October 2021 15: 38
        The conversation is about important things, and not about stupid inventions.
      2. +2
        18 October 2021 16: 27
        Quote: Volunteer
        They all seem to have listed them, but they forgot to mention the baldhead who poured beer in Switzerland about every report of the losses and retreat of RIA in 1915.

        So he and his party until February were marginalized with a population of 24 in March 000. It was only later, in the Short Course, that the Bolsheviks described how they led the revolutionary masses on the streets of February Petrograd. And in fact, the composition of the Executive Committee of the Petrograd Soviet speaks well of their influence. smile
        The empire was not destroyed by the Bolsheviks at all - no matter how they wanted to later show off their participation in this matter.
  15. 0
    17 October 2021 17: 16
    A rare nonsense article, obvious deception and lies.
    1. -2
      17 October 2021 18: 44
      Monarchist?
      1. -3
        18 October 2021 09: 37
        But what does the monarchist have to do with it? The Russian army had the largest number of aircraft, armored trains, and armored vehicles. Neither the Entente countries nor the Triple Alliance counted on a long war, therefore they did not focus on heavy artillery. To say that the allies did not help us is a lie. At sea, they actually bore the brunt of the war. And Verdun, Marne, did they not have battles. They lost, like the Russians, millions of soldiers. The defeat of the Russian troops in East Prussia was quickly stopped. And compare the defeat of our troops at the beginning of the Great Patriotic War. In a nightmare, the tsarist generals would not have dreamed of this.
        1. +3
          18 October 2021 13: 33
          The Russian army had the most aircraft, armored trains, armored vehicles


          There were many tanks and missiles drinks

          Please tell tales.
          There were more aircraft only at the beginning - foreign and outdated.
          During the war, developed capitalist countries sharply increased the production of basic types of weapons, including aircraft, and Russia lagged behind.
          The Germans initially relied on the development of artillery and were not mistaken. Their heavy, long-range artillery was the best in that war. The Russians even had to remove the guns from the unfinished battleships. And, of course, "shell hunger".
          Artillery - "God of War". And in the First World War and in the Second, 60% of the l / s losses of almost all armies were due to artillery fire.
          The First World War was not a "war of motors". Otherwise, the Germans could advance much further. Yes, the Red Army suffered heavy losses and suffered defeats, but then it began to win, and reached Vienna and Berlin, which the tsarist generals only dreamed of.
          In the First World War, the main front was the Western, it was there that the Germans had more divisions.
          In the Second World War of the USSR, for three years he fought practically alone against a coalition of states, including those that were allies of Russia in the First World War.
        2. 0
          18 October 2021 15: 45
          In 1915, the Russian Empire transferred money to the United States to build factories for the production of weapons and ammunition for the Russian army. Not a single plant in Russia was built by the Americans. And deliveries began only after February 1917.
          Krogme losses of the 1st and 2nd corps at the request of France and England, Russia sent a Russian expeditionary corps to Verdun. While there was heavy fighting, the corps was supplied on a par with the French army. When the war passed into the trench stage, the corps was transferred to the Balkans and supplies were drastically reduced. In this corps, the future Marshals of the Soviet Union Rokossovsky and Tolbukhin fought as privates. When the February Revolution took place in Russia, the corps command demanded to release the corps to Russia (there were no battles in the Balkans), but the allies refused. Zouav detachments were placed behind the Russian soldiers. The corps was breaking through to the Romanian front.
  16. +2
    17 October 2021 20: 10
    Oskin M.V. : What is the reason for the collapse of Russia and its armed forces after the [February] revolution? The same is the reason for the collapse of Germany and Austria-Hungary in 1918, regardless of their commanders and the quality of the military machine. A monarchical empire requires a nationwide leader who can maintain the nation's morale necessary for victory. "Leaderism" as such is an inevitable, objective condition for the existence of late feudal empires, carrying out capitalist modernization of their country fraught with social conflicts at an accelerated pace. The emperors of Russia, Germany and Austria-Hungary could not claim to be such leaders. Therefore, those commanders who in the eyes of the country would have the status of a leader should have come to the fore: “As in Germany, the highest [Russian] generals did not understand the role that the monarchy played in the organization of society. Alekseev and Borisov, like Hindenburg and Coach later, were not able to understand that their plans to bring the war without the emperors, who, as it seemed to them, only prevented them from doing it, were doomed to failure, because they themselves were just not were independent quantities, as they would like to think. And therefore, as soon as Wilhelm II and Nicholas II died, those who could not understand the danger that came from this kind of coups, especially during the great war, disappeared at different rates. "
  17. 0
    18 October 2021 09: 24
    I haven't read such frank nonsense for a long time.
  18. -1
    18 October 2021 14: 48
    Vladimir, thank you! An excellent article, bitter to unbearable, but true.
  19. +2
    20 October 2021 21: 25
    Another portion of the Bolshevik abomination. Despite all the difficulties, Russia, led by Tsar Nicholas, withstood the great war. Not significant territories were ceded to the enemy. There are many labels on it (anti-popular, imperialist, predatory, etc.), but in order not to hang propaganda, our glorious ancestors fought on it, convinced that they were fighting for a just cause. Some of the best generals of this war were Russian generals Denikin, Brusilov, Alekseev, Pleve, Lechitsky and others. The real aces were Russian pilots Nesterov, Kruten, Argeev, Kazakov, cornet Yuri Gilscher with an amputated leg who shot down 5 enemy airplanes. Many Russian women are sisters of mercy, full Knight of St. George, Maria Leontyevna Bochkareva. And thousands of other soldiers worthy of the pantheon of Russian military glory. The myth of the betrayal of the Empress Alexandra Feodorovna was not proved either where, by anyone or when, the Empress brought up in England and hated the Germans. A separate story of the Empress's leadership of the Russian Red Cross Society and the community of sisters of mercy. Realizing that it is necessary to have professional knowledge to lead and work in the field of advanced military medicine, she, together with the Grand Duchesses Tatyana and Olga, underwent special courses for military surgical nurses. Their teacher was one of the first female surgeons in Russia (and one of the first women in the world to become a professor of medicine) Vera Ignatievna Gedroyts.
  20. 0
    21 October 2021 15: 07
    A country with 85% rural population and an economy based on manual farming had no chance in a prolonged industrial war. The mobilization of the labor force (young men) in the army meant the collapse of the basis of the economy - agriculture.
  21. 0
    22 November 2021 18: 21
    You don't even need to comment on this nonsense.
  22. 0
    22 December 2021 16: 17
    Shouldn't we overturn another tub of slops on Russian history? - thought the communist. Why not!
  23. 0
    22 December 2021 16: 20
    The article contains a huge number of typical Soviet slops poured onto the RIA in every such libel.

    By December 1914, the Russian army numbered 6 people. However, they only had 553 rifles.
    Write something like that about the Red Army and you will be called a liberal. Write something like that about RIA and they'll slap you on the back.

    Does every soldier need a rifle? Machine gunners, gunners, servicemen of supply and rear services, clerks, cooks?
    1. -1
      23 December 2021 04: 17
      Quote: Ol Willy
      By December 1914, the Russian army numbered 6 people. However, they only had 553 rifles.
      Write something like that about the Red Army and you will be called a liberal. Write something like that about RIA and they'll slap you on the back.
      Well, they will rightly be called a liberal, because at the beginning of the Second World War, the Red Army was fully equipped with individual small arms, including self-loading and submachine guns. Subsequent losses are another matter.


      Quote: Ol Willy
      Does every soldier need a rifle? Machine gunners, gunners, servicemen of supply and rear services, clerks, cooks?
      What a shameful ignorance of military affairs. ALL military personnel at the front line and even in the front-line zone must be armed. And to mention machine gunners and artillerymen in this vein is incredible stupidity, even some kind of liberal! laughing
      1. 0
        23 December 2021 17: 23
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        What a shameful ignorance of military affairs. ALL military personnel at the front line and even in the front-line zone must be armed. And to mention machine gunners and artillerymen in this vein is incredible stupidity, even some kind of liberal!

        "Armed" and "armed with a rifle" are two different things. In WWI, it was the norm to issue pistols or revolvers as personal weapons to gunners, members of machine-gun teams, officers and others.
        1. 0
          24 December 2021 11: 19
          Quote: Ol Willy
          In WWI, it was the norm to issue pistols or revolvers as personal weapons to gunners, members of machine-gun teams, officers and others.

          What nonsense! What is the norm? Nagans, and no other barrels were issued, before WWII less than half a million were produced, and even if we imagine that ALL officers independently changed the service one to some of the permitted ones, and this is not the case, then the shortage of small arms still remains at least a million. No mob reserve, unlike the pre-war Red Army.
          "They gave out" - hand-face.
          1. 0
            24 December 2021 12: 43
            Regarding the armament of artillery crews before the war:

            Explanatory note to the charter of 1908, A. Popov:

            In view of the foregoing, we believe that it is currently imperative to replace the revolvers of the Smith and Wesson system, starting such a replacement with infantry and cavalry units, and to arm the lower ranks of the field foot artillery instead of the existing ones on the existing 3 models of the Smith and Wesson system. armament of shortened dragoon checkers. Arming the gunners with these obsolete revolvers considers it necessary to do for the following reasons:

            The heavy existing revolver of the lower ranks of the artillery will not burden, in view of the fact that when the battery moves, they sit on the limbs and seats of the carriage, meanwhile, for the self-defense of the battery, these revolvers will far be a better weapon than shortened checkers; the cancellation of this shortened saber from them is caused by the fact that this weapon will not bring any benefit in battle, since the artillerymen cannot wield it well, and meanwhile, when worn, they interfere with the action with the guns and nevertheless have some weight.


            Before WWI, officers were allowed to independently acquire and use pistols and revolvers of various designs.

            Regarding Nagan:

            By July 20, 1914, according to the report card, there were 424 Nagant revolvers of all modifications (out of 434), that is, the army was provided with revolvers by 436%
            1. 0
              24 December 2021 14: 56
              Quote: Ol Willy
              considers it necessary to do
              As usual, fans of the tsar-father projectiles pass off as reality (in short, they lie, or maybe they sincerely believe). They did not take SmithWesson into service with the calculations, like the Nagant, and they changed the checkers for the bebuts, in the course of what it is and what is the use of them in self-defense? So decide for yourself whether you believe in these S & Ws sincerely or are lying on the blue eye.

              Quote: Ol Willy
              Before WWI, officers were allowed to independently acquire and use pistols and revolvers of various designs.
              What do you think the argument is?
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              but if we imagine that ALL officers have independently changed the service certificate to which one of the allowed, but it is not

              Well, what will this give even with a complete replacement by the entire officer corps (45 thousand) at YOUR expense of Nagant? Are you unable to count?
              470 thousand units personal weapons plus 4650 thousand rifles will give a total of 5120 thousand armed servicemen, and in the army before the war there were 6550 thousand personnel. Continue, or will you overpower the number of unarmed soldiers yourself?
              They gave out the revolvers, of course, they gave out the spear and rejoice, a rider or a cook, and even a gunner.
              1. 0
                26 December 2021 23: 53
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                Although you wrote about the shooter, you cannot add simple numbers.


                Since you're talking about mathematics ... In 1914, the mobilized French army stood at a figure in the region of four million. The Lebel 86 rifle - the standard rifle of the French army - was produced in an amount of only 3.5 million, and this until 1920, together with military products; by 1914, production stood at about one and a half million. Plus several hundred thousand Berthier rifles. We get that in 1914, the four millionth French army had no more than two million rifles. I do not know how the French were with the short-barreled.

                The French already in 1915 ordered single-shot Remingtons from the USA and reworked the Gra 74 from a good life.

                And it was rightly said: "ALL servicemen at the front line and even in the front-line zone must be armed."
                Therefore, it is obvious that of the four million French, not all were in the forefront and about (no more than a million in 1914).

                Let's apply the same to RIA?
                1. 0
                  27 December 2021 05: 53
                  Quote: Ol Willy
                  The French army stood at a figure in the region of four million. The Lebel 86 rifle - the standard rifle of the French army - was produced in an amount of only 3.5 million
                  We have already jumped to the French, thank you for not visiting any Uruguay! What does the French have to do with it? Why not the Germans, for example? The enemy was at RIA, the Germans were.
                  Well, okay, the French are so French. About 3,7 million people in general, with the colonial troops, well you didn’t notice 300 thousand.


                  Quote: Ol Willy
                  was produced in an amount of only 3.5 million, and this is up to 1920, inclusive, together with military products; by 1914, production stood at about one and a half million.

                  Here is the answer, a tendency to lie is a sign of all lovers of the tsar's father? Because:
                  By the beginning of the First World War, the French army numbered, according to some sources, about 2 Lebel system rifles, according to other sources - about 880 million.
                  So there is a shortage taking into account the screw. Berthier (about 500 thousand) is significantly less than in Russia.

                  Quote: Ol Willy
                  I do not know how the French were with the short-barreled.
                  Worse than with Nagans, approx. 150 thousand before the war.


                  Quote: Ol Willy
                  The French already in 1915 ordered single-shot Remingtons from the USA and reworked the Gra 74 from a good life.
                  Combined with words
                  Quote: Ol Willy
                  Let's apply the same to RIA?

                  It's just ridiculous, the Arisais and the Winchesters, and the same Lebeli that the tsarist government bought and asked, won't let you lie.
                  And even funnier these words make Le mousqueton d'artillerie Mle 1892 - a model 1892 carbine for artillerymen, equipped with a cleaver bayonet. What's with the RIA gunners? Non-existent S&W and deadly beboots?
                  1. 0
                    27 December 2021 08: 48
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    By the beginning of the First World War, the French army numbered, according to some sources, about 2 Lebel system rifles, according to other sources - about 880 million.
                    So there is a shortage taking into account the screw. Berthier (about 500 thousand) is significantly less than in Russia.

                    I saw the figure of 2.880.000 as the total number of Lebelles until the end of production in 1918.

                    In any case, if by 1914 they had already produced almost three million - and the total production was only three and a half: what were the three French arsenals doing during the war years? Lebel's production was replaced gradually, and only 400 thousand rifles until the end of production? And the new Berthier rifle will appear a little later, since it was only in 1915 that a full-size rifle was introduced, and in 1916 the magazine capacity was increased.
                    Even backward Russia produced more than three million mosinos during the war years.
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Well, okay, the French are so French. About 3,7 million people in general, with the colonial troops, well you didn’t notice 300 thousand.

                    I saw a figure of 4,017,000 for 1914. The numbers for mobilization, so it may differ in different directions.
                    1. 0
                      27 December 2021 09: 10
                      Quote: Ol Willy
                      I saw the figure of 2.880.000 as the total number of Lebelles until the end of production in 1918.
                      A reference please.
                      https://копанина.рф/publ/1/lebel_pervenec_novoj_ehry/8-1-0-841

                      Quote: Ol Willy
                      and the total production is only three and a half: what did the three French arsenals do during the war?
                      Yes, not the production of obsolete (with an underbarrel magazine) rifles.
                      Take Berthier, for example. And also, for a minute, Shosha and Hotchkiss.
                      In fact, this has long been a diversion from comparing the number of rifles in the USSR and the Republic of Ingushetia. Regularity however. wink

                      Quote: Ol Willy
                      Even backward Russia produced more than three million mosinos during the war years.
                      Berthier Chausha and Hotchkiss. Tanks and mortars.
                      1. 0
                        27 December 2021 10: 30
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        A reference please.
                        https://копанина.рф/publ/1/lebel_pervenec_novoj_ehry/8-1-0-841

                        The above mentioned by me goes in many sources, but the data is incorrect, yes.


                        Tout le problème vient de la phrase d'un rapport sur la production industrielle publié dans une revue de l'armée française en 1922: ... En Août 1914, il ya 2 Lebel 880 sont usagés et renvoyés en manufacture ... Entre 000 1886 300 dont 000 2 "vieux clous" et 880 000 300 + 000 2 (soit 880 000 300 à la déclaration de guerre), ce n'est pas vraiment la même chose.

                        https://www.tircollection.com/t3701-nombre-de-lebel-produits?highlight=lebel


                        2.880.000 including 300.000 or 2.880.000 plus 300.000, the French themselves do not know for sure

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Yes, not the production of obsolete (with an underbarrel magazine) rifles.

                        Lebel, by the way, was popular until the end of the war.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Take Berthier, for example.

                        2.400.000 upper bounds rifles

                        https://www.tircollection.com/t3903-nombre-de-fusils-1907-15-et-m16-produits?highlight=nombre+de

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Hotchkiss

                        27.000 M1910 to 1917 versus 54.000 Hotchkiss before 1918. In 1917, they reached 11 thousand Maxims a year, so if only, in 1918 the figure could reach 38 thousand Maxims. Of course sad, but not heaven and earth
                      2. 0
                        27 December 2021 15: 46
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        2.880.000 including 300.000 or 2.880.000 plus 300.000, the French themselves do not know for sure
                        By 1914, right?

                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        Lebel, by the way, was popular until the end of the war.
                        And it was even produced as snipers and for grenade launchers, this is what the French were doing.
                        Quote: Ol Willy
                        reach 38 thousand Maximov. Of course sad, but not heaven and earth
                        Shosha! laughing 220 thousand lousy but machine guns.
                      3. +1
                        29 December 2021 09: 02
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        By 1914, right?

                        So
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Shosha! laughing 220 thousand lousy but machine guns.

                        It is worth noting that only the British were able to master the production of real LMG. Shosh is more of a self-loading rifle (there, even in the manual, tactics are similar with an emphasis on single shooting); 08/15 is difficult to call easy; the Americans have a BAR that was not an LMG (designed for "walking shooting" with a corresponding belt), only Lewis and Madsen remain. Lewis, however, was hefty expensive, and Madsen was going to be made in our Kovrov, they even bought equipment
  24. 0
    23 December 2021 09: 20
    Quote: Ol Willy

    Hitler attacked the USSR without finishing England. Optimist, sir.
    Also the USA declared war in the process.


    Hitler, in his own way, acted logically. If you manage to quickly defeat the USSR, then the last hopes for England will collapse, with the Britons it will be possible to agree on favorable terms for the Reich.

    The USSR is not Poland or Czechoslovakia, if you throw it, it’s more expensive. Already during the Winter War it was clear that the West supports the Finns only morally, because a serious confrontation with the USSR is more dear to itself.


    Do not be afraid of confrontation with someone who is destined to become a victim of aggression soon.
    Actually, on the initiative of the West, the USSR was expelled from the League of Nations because of its "aggressiveness".

    An alliance with England is Hitler's pipe dreams. England needed a strong Germany like a dog a stick


    In fact, there were many supporters of such an alliance in the British elite. But it was really impossible, since it was primarily disadvantageous to the American elite, ruining all plans.
    Any really strong alliance of great European powers (beyond the control of the American elite) is unacceptable for the United States, since it poses a threat to their hegemony in Europe (which the United States was striving for even then).
    This is true at the present time.
    1. 0
      23 December 2021 17: 35
      Quote: Illanatol
      Hitler, in his own way, acted logically. If you manage to quickly defeat the USSR, then the last hopes for England will collapse, with the Britons it will be possible to agree on favorable terms for the Reich.

      Undoubtedly, but as I said - an optimist.
      Quote: Illanatol
      In fact, there were many supporters of such an alliance in the British elite. But it was really impossible, since it was primarily disadvantageous to the American elite, ruining all plans.
      Any really strong alliance of great European powers (beyond the control of the American elite) is unacceptable for the United States, since it poses a threat to their hegemony in Europe (which the United States was striving for even then).

      By that time the position of England was still strong, and the position of the USA in Europe was not very strong; in addition, relations between the USA and England were not far from so rosy (this is what Hitler overlooked when he declared war on the USA).
      Those parts of the English elite that wanted rapprochement with Germany can be colorfully called the word fringe, because they had no real influence on the policy of England (another miscalculation of Hitler, Ribbentrop and Hess, who calculated on them). The core of the English elite did not need a strong Germany at all, this is a key feature of England's foreign policy for centuries - to stifle any attempts to create a superpower in continental Europe, be it Spain, France, Russia or Germany.
      Accordingly, after WWII this chip from England was intercepted by the USA. After WWII, there was still a miserable flutter of England about retaining its own influence, but it was too late.
  25. 0
    27 December 2021 11: 29
    You can immediately see a Russophobe communist. Maybe the author is also a Stalinist? Outright nonsense designed for people who either do not know the history or catch the phantasmagoria of joy from attacks and ridicule on Imperial Russia. Whoever is really interested in what rights the Empire acted in the Entente and what contradictions were at that time in society, I highly recommend reading the academic work of S.S. Oldenburg. Also on Yandex-Zen there is an author Egor Kholmogorov. Who is not interested, my condolences. Have a nice day to the Russian people.
  26. 0
    29 December 2021 09: 48
    Undoubtedly, but as I said - an optimist.


    Pessimists do not come to power, they can only grumble while lying on the couch.


    By that time the position of England was still strong, and the position of the USA in Europe was not very strong; in addition, relations between the USA and England were not far from so rosy (this is what Hitler overlooked when he declared war on the USA).


    What does the position of the state have to do with it? The business elite is driving. And the positions of the American bankers were still so strong.
    Of course: the essence of the Second World War was the showdown within the Anglo-Saxon elite, between the English and American parts. The main results of the war were summed up in Bretton Wood, and not in Yalta and Potsdam.
    The results of Yalta and Potsdam have long been in the dustbin of History, and the results of Bretton Woods (the dollar is the yardstick of everything) still determine the world economy and politics.

    The core of the English elite did not need a strong Germany at all, this is a key feature of England's foreign policy for centuries - to stifle any attempts to create a superpower in continental Europe, be it Spain, France, Russia or Germany.


    It was only after WWI that Britain began to turn from a subject of world politics, in fact, into its object. No longer a predator, but a prey. In exchange for US aid in WWII, Churchill had to surrender his empire to Roosevelt, allowing American capital to enter the colonies and dominions.
    Britain's only chance to maintain its position, to maintain its empire, is to forge a lasting alliance with Germany. This would make it possible to exclude the establishment of American control over Europe, and in fact - over most of the world. Of course, the American elite did everything to prevent such an alliance from taking place, and they did it.
    The former parts of the British Empire turned out to be economic appendages of the United States, and Britain itself turned into a kind of Tabaka jackal under the Stars and Stripes Shere Khan.
  27. 0
    4 February 2022 19: 03
    The author tore the content of some Soviet article - a continuous class struggle! It is disgusting to read clichés that blaspheme everything that happened before October 1917, when people who did not love their country staged a coup d'état and plunged the people into a civil war and subsequent unprecedented disasters. After 74 years, another communist coup followed, already in the direction of capitalism - and we live, "not smelling the country."

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