Military Review

Armor is strong and tanks are fast

162

Tanks, as everyone knows, were born in the First World War. And they were not born in Russia. You can talk as much as you like about Lebedenko's wheeled tank, about Porokhovshchikov's tank, about the projects of our Da Vinci - Mendeleev, but these are drawings and prototypes that everyone dabbled in, but brought to mind some, namely the British and French already during the Great War. And the machines with unreliable engines, unfinished running gear and unbalanced weapons proved to be so-so. They, of course, pushed through the defense, but somehow they didn’t manage to dive into the depths. And in Civic, where the whites received a few tanks from the allies, they also did not shine. Yes, yesterday's peasants were frightened by a healthy fool who thundered with iron, but ... As practice has shown, you can fight tanks, but blood, however, goes away ...


Nevertheless, the newborn Red Army became interested in tanks, and already in the years of the Civil War, a Soviet tank was born - the Russian Renault, aka "Comrade Lenin, a freedom fighter." Released these replicas Renault FT-17 as many as 15 pieces, and for the times of the Civilian it is akin to a small miracle. So the tank troops of the USSR-Russia were born, the very ones to which marches will be dedicated, like "Armor is strong, and our tanks are fast", monuments and postage stamps, books and films.

Twenties: Time to Search


Tank troops were born slowly and painfully, there was not enough money, there were not enough factories and there was not enough knowledge of designers and customers. At first, there were painful attempts to create a tank of our own, but the T-12 turned out to be non-functional, the T-24 was frankly unsuccessful, and the series was already in 24 pieces, which was clearly not the case. The rest of the projects generally read like unscientific fiction, in the end they decided to return to the good old Renault, this time under the name MC-1 (small escort). Later they will be renamed T-18. Their industry, which had grown stronger by the second half of the twenties, built not just a lot, but a lot - 959 units before 1931. Then a philosophical question arose - what to do with a ten-year-old model tank, extremely weakly armored and armed, and its low maneuverability. No, the Chinese on the CER were easily crushed by our MCs, although not without problems, it turned out that the sight was bad, and 40 grams of explosives in the shell was not very good, but still ...

“After all,” it was that our engineers got acquainted in the West with prototypes of various Vickers and Christies there, and other Carden-Lloyds, and realized that we were lagging behind, and we were lagging far behind. We are lagging behind both in tanks and in their armament (37 mm of Hotchkiss did not dance), and we are lagging behind in the design school. As a result, it was decided to buy, just buy, and not improve the foreign one, but built 10 years before.

The thirties: light and numerous


It was during these years that the massive tank troops of the Red Army appeared, a clear division of tanks into tankettes, light, medium and heavy, appeared, and there were a lot of them, however, based on foreign samples. The pre-war Red Army was proud of its tanks, and was proud not without reason - the largest tank armada in the world, tested in battles and campaigns, with a powerful theory of their massive use summed up ... That's right, and in theory and practice we were ahead of the rest of the world, but the theory was crude and largely erroneous, and the tanks ... First, the number.

We had a heavy tank of the same model - the T-35. And the tasks for this tank were specific - breaking through the defenses in the style of the First World War. Their 61 units were built, all were part of the 5th heavy tank brigade and did not participate in the battles, but they were the stars of the parades. The huge five-tower fool impressed with both power and size. Another question is that it was unrealistic to coordinate the fire, the armor was weak, and the technical reliability ... Let's not talk about sad things, during the Great Patriotic War, the T-35 in Ukraine died not from enemies, but from marches. To be fair - the French, British and Germans jumped on the same rake. Another conversation - the Germans made three of their monsters, the French - ten, the British - only one, and we are 61.

We had 28 T-503s as medium tanks. Three-turret tank, unreliable, but relatively successful. It was successful because the two machine-gun turrets were carried forward, the commander was well placed and well armored. These tanks showed themselves well in the Winter War, with a powerful repair base in the near rear, and failed in the Patriotic War, precisely because of the lack of normal repair capacity and a lack of spare parts. On the other hand, the Finns exploited their trophies right up to 1951, which also speaks volumes. If the T-35 is difficult and unreliable, then the T-28 is just a lot. There were capacities to build, there were modernization projects, but there was no structure for operation. And if in peacetime they somehow managed, not far from the manufacturing plant in Finnish, too, then in the conditions of a global war ... In Leningrad, the T-28E (modernization of armor and weapons), having a manufacturing plant behind them, held out until 1944 ...

With light tanks it was more difficult - we had two families of them - T-26 (nee Vickers) and BT (nee Christie). And they built a lot, a lot, in line with the views that tanks are such a cavalry, which in large dense masses should rush to the rear of the enemy and smash everything in its path. The view was generally correct, but particulars ... The Germans involved in the blitzkrieg STRUCTURES - tanks plus motorized infantry, plus mechanized artillery, all this was multiplied by excellent reconnaissance and communications, while here ... Again, in pursuit of records quantitative did not work out very well with armor and reliability. In more detail:

1. BT family: BT-2 - 620 units, BT-5 - 1884 units and BT-7 - 4800 units. In addition, the BT-7M with a diesel engine - 783 units and the BT-7A with a 76 mm gun - 155 mm. More than 8000 BT. And as a result, zero benefit - a racing tank was simply not needed, and weak armor and aviation the engine also made it dangerous for the crew.

In addition, the problem of personnel, tankers need to be trained, technicians and commanders are needed, communication is needed, repair capacities and spare parts are needed ... And the wheeled-caterpillar propulsion system is not the best solution, like any attempt to improve some characteristics at the expense of others.

2. Family T-26, aka Vickers six-ton. 11 units were produced in various modifications. A good tank, average in performance, but good. And in Spain, and Finland, and other local conflicts he showed his best side. The British on Vickers, in general, created an excellent machine, which was produced by many, and Soviet engineers brought the two-turret tank to mind, turning it into a completely formidable tool. But ... What was high-tech at the end of the twenties, by the mid-thirties became mediocre, and by the end - an outdated machine.

I leave the wedges out of the brackets, and they were riveted by 3342 pieces of the T-27 model, I leave the amphibious tanks - 2640 T-37A and 1430 T-38, and all the same - the numbers are cosmic. And these numbers are a cosmic mistake. In the thirties, the era of the late 19th century was somewhat repeated, when the fleet did not have time to finish building the ship, as it was already outdated. Only now it was about tanks - anti-tank artillery was growing, the Air Force was developing, a coherent theory was created, under which the machines were made, and we built tens of thousands of tanks of the last decade's concept, and sharpened the tactics of application for them. By 1939, everything was sad, and by 1941 it was hopeless, within the framework of the existing tank forces, which the war showed.

About the war next time, as well as about the pre-war tanks, but for now a small conclusion - feats are different. The creation of the Red Army tank forces is a feat, a feat, accomplished from scratch and with unparalleled efforts, but a senseless feat - a huge armada of tanks did not play its role. The concept itself turned out to be erroneous and inflexible, which, of course, does not negate either the heroism of the workers or the heroism of the tankers, it just largely leads to the inflation of their efforts.
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  1. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 11 October 2021 04: 31
    +12
    About the war next time, as well as about the pre-war tanks
    The author is a master of intrigue! laughing
    But let the continuation be in a different style, with details and at least some delights, please.
    1. Asad
      Asad 11 October 2021 04: 46
      +11
      It seemed to me that the author is Roman Skomorokhov. We are waiting for the continuation.
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 11 October 2021 04: 54
        +4
        No, Roman is noticeably more verbose about the technique (pun intended) laughing , although he misinterprets a lot, but writes about politics more interestingly, about Taiwan, for example, a recent article is very nice.
    2. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 11 October 2021 04: 52
      +8
      senseless feat
      Somehow pessimistic ... And a feat - it is a feat! hi
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 11 October 2021 04: 56
        +11
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        Somehow pessimistic ... And a feat - it is a feat

        Indeed, I missed this frank filth! Then this whole article is meaningless in this light! No need to continue at all!
    3. Proxima
      Proxima 11 October 2021 05: 09
      +30
      we built tens of thousands of tanks concepts of the past decade belay , and under them the tactics of application were sharpened. By 1939, everything was sad, and by 1941, it was hopeless, within the framework of the existing tank forces, which the war showed.
      Wow! belay Such "tank experts" are very rarely seen on discussion platforms, not to mention VO. Was the KV and T-34 the last decade? By the way, by the beginning of the war we had quite a few fellow You can even say a lot, given that there was nothing like this at all! Okay, let's take the "old" tanks "of the concept of the last decade," BT-7 for example. How were they inferior to the German T-3, which at the beginning of the war were the most massive tanks in the Wehrmacht? Dear Author, please understand the common truth that not a tank is fighting, but a tank unit (corps, division, regiment ..), within which these tanks (and not only tanks) interact. I no longer take the fact that tank units themselves are combined with other units not only tank units (aviation, artillery, etc.). In the mobilized and well-oiled military machine of the Wehrmacht, all this was polished to automatism. We recall the typical combined strike of the Germans: reconnaissance in force, air strike, artillery strike, then tanks (plus excellent communications) come into play. The entire front is broken through, the tanks have entered the operational space. fellow That was the problem we had at the beginning of the war, and not these "concepts of the past decade" of yours.
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 11 October 2021 07: 50
        -1
        At the beginning, what was the most massive Pz.III war?
        Don't you confuse?
        1. Proxima
          Proxima 11 October 2021 09: 36
          +10
          Quote: hohol95
          At the beginning, what was the most massive Pz.III war?
          Don't you confuse?

          I do not confuse! What do you think? What was the most massive Panzerwaffe tank on the Eastern Front at the beginning of the war? - Tiger, Panther? Mouse? Tell me your opinion, I will even tell you that the T-4 did not even take an honorable second place after the T-3.
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 11 October 2021 12: 05
            +4
            As of September 1, 1939, there were 98 "triplets" of all modifications.
            "Fours" - 211 pieces.
            35 "Czechs" - 196 pieces.
            "Twos" - 1223 pieces.
            And only 38 "Czechs" were 78 pieces.
            The beginning of the Second World War.
            "Troika" is clearly not the most massive!
            1. boris epstein
              boris epstein 11 October 2021 17: 14
              0
              We take the 2002 "Encyclopedia of Tanks" edited by Colonel-General Mayev. We read page 212.
              "In October 1940, MAN, Alquette, Wegmann, MNH, MIAG and Henschel launched mass production of H version tanks. By April 1941, 310 (according to other sources, 408) vehicles were built out of 759 ordered in January. 1939 "
              Prior to that, tanks of the E-96 series were produced (ibid., Page 88), B-12 vehicles, D-50 vehicles, F, G.
              In total, about 22 tanks of all modifications were produced by June 1941, 2400. The release lasted until 1943. A total of 5700 vehicles were produced. Troikas in 1941-1942 were the main armament of the Wehrmacht's tank divisions.
              112 Czechoslovak LT-35 tanks were included in the 1st light division of the Wehrmacht before the war - ibid., Page 163. starting in 1935, 424 tanks were produced in three years. Tanks LT-38 until September 1, 1939, 98 vehicles were produced, production continued in the interests of the Panzerwaffe. In total, until June 22, 1941, 623 line tanks and 41 command tanks were produced in the same place.
              After 1942, the 35s were removed from service, and the 38s were converted into self-propelled guns. The most successful of them was the Hetzer with rational angles of inclination of the armor and armed with the Soviet 76-mm F-22 cannon.
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 11 October 2021 17: 23
                +1
                The Hetzer is not a rework of the 38s, but an independent machine. And they never armed themselves with the F-22. Only German Kwk.
                This rework is the first "Marder III" with the Soviet F-22 gun and 150mm Bizon / Grille self-propelled gun of the "N" model.
                Subsequent models of "Marder 3" and "Bison / Grille" were made from newly released parts and were more successful in design!
                1. boris epstein
                  boris epstein 11 October 2021 17: 45
                  -1
                  In Hetzer's photographs, there was NO muzzle brake on the barrel of the gun, as on the 7,5sm KwK40 L / 43. Again, a quote from the "Encyclopedia of Tanks." During production, self-propelled guns were constantly improved and modernized. It was planned (I emphasize) also to release modifications with Pak 39/1 guns of 75 mm caliber and StuG 42 guns of 105 mm caliber. "The same Encyclopedia, page 231. It was only planned, 75mm guns were needed for the sharply increased production of 75s, but the StuG III Aust.F did have a German XNUMXmm cannon.
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 11 October 2021 18: 20
                    +1
                    The muzzle brake was screwed up due to the demo of the car from the dispersion of gases from the shot.
                    The same was done on "Jagdpanzer IV", "Jagdpanzer IV / 70 (V) and IV / 70 (A)"!
                    On the "Marder 3" of the first modification, the F-22 was installed, but modernized by the Germans. With a muzzle brake. It was installed by the Germans themselves when modernizing guns!
                    1. boris epstein
                      boris epstein 12 October 2021 09: 59
                      0
                      Ferdinand, Jagdpanther, Vespa were not screwed together. And then a specialist for
                      hohol95 took it and screwed it up. Photos and sources in the studio! Otherwise, lies and SPAM.
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 12 October 2021 14: 01
                        -1
                        Would you take the risk of screwing a muzzle brake off a 105mm howitzer?
                        On the "Vespa" there was just such.
                        And for general development, compare the distance from the ground to the muzzle of the gun barrels of the "yagdpanzerov" and the vehicles you listed.
                        Muzzle brakes were also not screwed on "Marder 3".
                        Read the book by Ilya Moshchanskiy "Panzer IV / 70 (V) Fighter Tank"
                        And knowledge will abide for you ...
              2. hohol95
                hohol95 11 October 2021 17: 25
                +2
                Who "riveted" the extra 35 "Czechs" if only 298 of them were released?
                And you write about 424.
                1. boris epstein
                  boris epstein 11 October 2021 17: 59
                  0
                  "Until 1942, 1411 of these tanks were delivered to the Wehrmacht under the brand name 38 (t)."
                  "During the campaign in France in the spring of 1940, tanks 38 (t) were already armed with two tank divisions (one of them was commanded by the later famous General Erwin Rommel," the fox of the desert "). At the initial stage of Operation Barbarossa, 5 tank divisions (one quarter of all involved tank divisions) were armed with these tanks ... "
                  The book "Weapons of the Wehrmacht", Shunkov, Minsk, Harvest, 1999, p. 321.
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 11 October 2021 18: 21
                    +1
                    I'm not talking about 38 (t), but about 35 (t)!
                    35 (t) were at 6 TD.
                    A 38 (t) at 7, 8, 12, 19, 20 TD.
                    1. boris epstein
                      boris epstein 12 October 2021 09: 58
                      +1
                      I have indicated the source. You have no links to sources. Any post with numbers without a SPAM source.
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 12 October 2021 12: 38
                        -1
                        Source - "German tanks in battle" Baryatinsky MB
                        Yuri Pasholok's articles also indicate the figure of 298 LTvz.35.
                        149 tanks each for two factories - Skoda and ChKZ.
                2. boris epstein
                  boris epstein 12 October 2021 10: 08
                  0
                  Quote: "For three years of production, 424 tanks of this type were produced, most of which were used in the Wehrmacht" The rest were bought by Hungary. And on what front do you think they fought? And what's the difference, in the Wehrmacht or in the Hungarian army, they were listed?
                  I am writing from literature, and you are from the Stell's reference book (in translation and Ukrainian-ceiling). Book Weapons of the Wehrmacht, VN Shunkov, Minsk, Harvest, 1999.
                  In general, I no longer respond to your posts without links to sources.
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 12 October 2021 13: 48
                    -2
                    The author of your source added the R-2 tanks produced for the Romanian army to the LTvz.35 tanks issued for the Czechoslovak army. But I "forgot" to add 10 more T-11 tanks made for Afghanistan, but serving in the Bulgarian army!
        2. ja-ja-vw
          ja-ja-vw 11 October 2021 16: 20
          +4
          Quote: hohol95
          At the beginning, what was the most massive Pz.III war?
          Don't you confuse?

          what is there to be confused about?

          the Germans had no tanks.
          T-34 is practically the same as the Pz.3 but the Germans had it, in fact, almost "MBT"

          Quote: hohol95
          As of September 1, 1939, there were 98 "triplets" of all modifications.

          belay
          so then in 1939 (why are you pulling him by the ears to June 1941?) and on Russian Wikipedia.
          PzKpfw III Ausf. A was produced in May 1937. 15 cars were built, of which only 8 received weapons and until 1939 were part of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd tank divisions. The rest of the tanks were used for testing.
          in 1937, the PzKpfw III Ausf tank went into production. This series was also limited to 15 cars. Several of them took part in the September 1939 campaign.
          In January 1938, the production of the PzKpfw III Ausf.D tanks began. Until 1939, 55 vehicles of this type were built. Only 30 of them received weapons,
          Back in the summer of 1940, Hitler ordered to double the number of German armored divisions.
          On August 23, 1940, the German Defense Ministry optimistically promised to deliver 1 main battle tanks and 1500 self-propelled guns by May 300


          in 1941 by June there were 979 Pz.3 and 444 Pz.4 units on the eastern front (almost all of the available 517)
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 11 October 2021 17: 06
            +2
            At the beginning of World War II, the "troika" was at the "beginning" of its mass production.
            All 4 first modifications had big problems with the chassis.
            And you missed 15 of the C modification!
            And where did you get the information that the Germans "lacked" weapons for the "troikas"?
            Having eliminated the problems with the chassis from the E model, the Germans began to "drive the plan".
            And by April 1941 they reached the letter "H".
            But they did not stop doing 38 "Czechs"!
            And they put the "deuce" of the F model on the carpet in June 1940, not from "simple wishlist". And they made them at 4 factories.
            According to the German "norms," ​​there were not enough tanks for them.
            You yourself write about optimism, but the production workers showed a "cookie" ...
            So they made 4 different tanks. Moreover, there are two in the "middle" section - middle and ersatz-middle!
            By "lucky chance" the Germans had worked out by June 1941 the interaction of tank groups with artillery, motorized infantry and assault aircraft.
            Only a deeply echeloned defense with a large amount of artillery and air defense systems could oppose them in the USSR. With good communication with the Army Air Force and between infantry and tank formations.
            Alas. There were big problems with this.
            But before that, the Poles, the French and the British had similar problems!
            1. ja-ja-vw
              ja-ja-vw 11 October 2021 20: 22
              -2
              Quote: hohol95
              At the beginning of World War II, the "troika" was at the "beginning" of its mass production.

              Between October 1939 and July 1940, FAMO, Daimler-Benz, Henschel, MAN and Alquette produced 435 tanks PzKpfw III Ausf. F
              Production of the G version tanks began in April - May 1940, and by February 1941, 600 tanks of this type had entered the Wehrmacht tank units.
              = It turns out about the same number before 1940 and after
              Quote: hohol95
              And you missed 15 of the C modification!

              yes there are a bunch of modifications of them Ausf. J1 / Ausf. L- you will not remember everyone
              Quote: hohol95
              And where did you get the information that the Germans "lacked" weapons for the "troikas"?

              I did not give out such information
              Quote: ja-ja-vw
              The rest of the tanks were used for testing.

              You can test the chassis, engine, overview, maintainability. The weapon is not needed here
              Quote: hohol95
              By "lucky chance" the Germans had worked out by June 1941 the interaction of tank groups with artillery, motorized infantry and assault aircraft.

              it's all about a dancer who is hindered by something.
              Is it okay that our front was essentially SECOND for the Germans?
              England remained in the rear, and Erwin Yohannochich (or Oygenovich) was hanging out in Africa from 12.02.1941/6.04/17.04 and from 22.06.1941/XNUMX to XNUMX/XNUMX there was the April War, and after it, partisans began on XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX
              Quote: hohol95
              Alas. There were big problems with this.

              with what? with a connection?
              None of the European armies had such a connection as the USSR did by the summer of 1941.
              Americans, after testing the T-34:
              “The sight, - and this is still optics, this is a subtle technology, - the best in the world, not comparable to any existing or developed in America". And about the radio stations, which allegedly did not exist, the Americans wrote: “Compact radio station and very well located in the car". We look at the handrail antennas on our tanks

              from the reports of the NGOs General Staff, which they sent to the Politburo at the beginning of January 1941, that is six months before the war in the Red Army there were 40 front-line radio stations, that is, eight pieces for five future fronts, 845 pieces of army radio stations, that is, 50 radio stations for one combined-arms army, and even regimental, that is, radio stations of the lowest level, 5 thousand 909 pieces, then there are approximately four radio stations per regiment + factories continued to operate and continued to do until June 1941.
              The weakest of these radio stations listed, 5-AK, regimental, had a range of 25 km and 50 "Morse code". Considering that the regiment's defense zone is 3-4 km, then .....

              In "The reasons for the defeat of our troops in Belarus," the "researchers" complained very much that there was such a low security, that company radio stations were provided to the Red Army by only 70%.
              Consider the presence of radio stations at the company level - not armies, companies. But there were few of them, they were only 70% of the norm.
              And the mantras begin with about the cut wires. recourse
              Quote: hohol95
              But before that, the Poles, the French and the British had similar problems!

              I, in principle, mao cares about the Belgians and the French.
              But, if you are interested: compare the ratio of forces, then sq. kilometers that the Germans took from the "Belgians and French" for WHAT time and compare with our graters in 1941. impressive
              ==========================
              that is not the question.
              You claimed

              Quote: hohol95
              At the beginning, what was the most massive Pz.III war?
              Don't you confuse?

              this is not true.
              and the numbers say otherwise
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 11 October 2021 21: 29
                -1
                At the beginning of the Great Patriotic War - Yes!
                At the beginning of the Second World War - No!
                You have indicated 5 factories for the production of "triplets".
                And how many factories did the fours?
                At the same time, their number also grew.
                Despite the efforts of Herr Kniepkamp to "strangle" the production of the "four" and force Krupp to produce the "three"!
                Regarding the "terok" with the French and Co. - in what period of time did the Soviet Union surrender?
                At the same time "France and Co" were considered to be much technically advanced countries!
                And at the same time, the USSR was asked to sell a batch of M-105 engines.
                The French lacked motors of their own production.
                And about radio and telephony - how many factories were there in the Russian Empire producing products at the level of Siemens or Erickson?
                I always affirm that after the Civil War in the USSR there were most of all various kinds of problems. And least of all there are simple solutions to these problems!
                Or tanks and airplanes or a radio receiver in every house, or the construction of a hydroelectric power station or iron roofs for every peasant hut.
                Trishkin caftan ...
                1. ja-ja-vw
                  ja-ja-vw 11 October 2021 22: 03
                  0
                  Quote: hohol95
                  At the beginning of the Great Patriotic War - Yes!
                  At the beginning of the Second World War - No!

                  Quote: Proxima
                  Okay, let's take the "old" tanks "concept of the last decade", BT-7 for example. How they were inferior to the German T-3who at the beginning of the war were the most massive tanks in the Wehrmacht?

                  BT-7 did not participate at the beginning of WW2 sad (except for the occupation of Poland, but he did not fight the T-3 there). Clear stump Proxima meant the 1941 war
                  Quote: hohol95
                  Regarding the "terok" with the French and Co. - in what period of time did the Soviet Union surrender?

                  I'm talking about something else. Do not juggle.
                  Quote: hohol95
                  And at the same time, the USSR was asked to sell a batch of M-105 engines.

                  belay
                  it seems that since the end of 1940 production was established, and France fell in June 1940. Riddle: how could they ask to sell something that we ourselves did not have?
                  Quote: hohol95
                  And about radio and telephony - how many factories were there in the Russian Empire producing products at the level of Siemens or Erickson?

                  Do not know. And what is the connection between the RI early 20th and the USSR 1940?
                  Quote: hohol95
                  Or tanks and planes or a radio in every house,

                  so we made 25000+ tanks and 12500+ aircraft.
                  And they disappeared in a couple of months.
                  And about iron roofs and devastation, not worth it.
                  1.The United States was discovered at the end of the 15th century, began to develop in the 17th century: there were no roads, no boats, no forges, no houses, NOTHING
                  2.Germany until 1933 could not produce anything at all, and the Wehrmacht was formed in 1935.
                  we have a lot now
                  Quote: hohol95
                  factories ... manufacturing products at the Siemens or Erickson level
                  ?
                  1. gsev
                    gsev 15 October 2021 14: 09
                    0
                    Quote: ja-ja-vw
                    The USA was discovered at the end of the 15th century, began to develop in the 17th century: there were no roads, no boats, no forges, no houses, NOTHING

                    In England, it wasn't until 1816 that the inventor of gravel roads, Scott Loudon Macadam, was given the opportunity to build a gravel road. Asphalt and concrete pavement appeared even later. The main problem is the training of designers, calculators, the choice of the right technology, and mass production, if there is a design, the technology is a question of 10 years for light industry, and 30 years for the power industry. An example of the PRC, which in the mid-1990s was ready to choose a contractor from Germans and Russians for production of electric generators, and by 2020 has already blocked all significant rivers in the PRC and Laos with its dams for hydroelectric power plants.
                    1. ja-ja-vw
                      ja-ja-vw 15 October 2021 14: 25
                      -2
                      Quote: gsev
                      In England, it wasn't until 1816 that the inventor of gravel roads, Scott Loudon Macadam, was given the opportunity to build a gravel road.

                      what is it for?
                      Scott thought for a long time. since the beginning of our era in England there are Via Romea, which are NOT ONLY viae militares
                      Statumen is the base of the road, which was formed from large rough stone blocks. They served as the foundation of the road, and drainage was also carried out through the cracks between the slabs.
                      Rudus or nucleus is a layer of sand or a thin layer of gravel that was laid on the statumen in order to level the surface.
                      Summum dorsum is a top layer of fine sand, gravel, lime or earth. This layer had to be soft and durable at the same time.
                      The road is not only bedding, but also calculation (forest), leveling, bridges, etc. Even inns.
                      There a utility block, as in the Man from Boulevard des Capucines, and they appeared only by the end of the 18th century.
                      1. gsev
                        gsev 15 October 2021 14: 36
                        0
                        Quote: ja-ja-vw
                        what is it for?

                        In Russia at the end of the 18th century, the problem was the Crimean Tatar and Circassian raids of slave traders, banditry in Bashkiria and on the Volga. As soon as these problems were solved, the rapid development of the South of Russia, the Urals and Siberia began. Until that time, south of Belgorod and east of Tobol, the development of Russia began with not better initial conditions than those in Louisitania or Florida. In addition, the economic policy of Great Britain in America was to ban industrial production in the colonies, and the concentration of industry only in the metropolis. This is the reason that caused the American Revolution and the emergence of the United States.
                      2. ja-ja-vw
                        ja-ja-vw 15 October 2021 15: 06
                        -1
                        Quote: gsev
                        In Russia at the end of the 18th century, the problem

                        in Russia by the 18th century there was a state, with all the elements of power, army, navy, industry
                        by the beginning of the 150th century. the total output of large metallurgical plants was approximately XNUMX thousand poods of pig iron
                        by 1726 it reached 800 thousand poods of cast iron
                        During the first decade of the 14th century. the treasury built 2 metallurgical enterprises, and private individuals - only 15; in the next 5 years, 10 factories were built with state funds, and 1715 factories were built by private industrialists. Before 10 there was not a single private enterprise in the cloth industry, and by the end of the first quarter of the 1717th century. there were XNUMX of them. The diplomat P. P. Shafirov noted in XNUMX, not without pride, that the production of such goods had been established, “about which many and the names of before this in Russia had been little heard”.
                        At the beginning of the XNUMXth century. On the territory of Karelia, a group of Olonets factories was built, a large shipyard was founded in Kazan, cloth and leather factories arose. In Ukraine, saltpeter and gunpowder production developed. In the first quarter of the XNUMXth century. a large Putivl Cloth Manufactory was founded, as well as the first in Russia Akhtyrka Tobacco Manufactory.
                        Petrovsky canals and shipyards. There are cities and fortresses.
                        On January 28 (February 8), 1724, the Academy of Sciences appeared.
                        and in America in the 18th century, scalps were cut off from their heads and their ears dried out defeated enemies.

                        Quote: gsev
                        banditry in Bashkiria and on the Volga

                        In the early 1890s, a real boom in armed train robberies broke out in the United States (51 episodes from 1892 to 94).

                        but I will not talk about stagecoaches at all
                        Wars since colonial times lasted until the Wounded Knee massacre and the "closure" of the American Frontier in 1890 year... Their result was the conquest of the North American Indians and their assimilation or forced resettlement to Indian reservations. The United States Census Bureau estimates that between 1775 and 1890 there were more than 40 wars that claimed the lives of 45 Indians and 000 whites.
                      3. gsev
                        gsev 15 October 2021 15: 37
                        0
                        Quote: ja-ja-vw

                        In the early 1890s, a real boom in armed train robberies broke out in the United States (51 episodes from 1892 to 94).

                        but I will not talk about stagecoaches at all

                        Probably only near Chechnya during the years of its independence an order of magnitude more trains were robbed than during the period you indicated in the United States. It was scary to travel in the Moscow region on the Dushanbe-Moscow train until Omon was given the command to teach foreign passengers to behave tolerably in Russia. The United States does not have strong enemies among its neighbors. However, the United States provokes Moldavia, the Baltic States and Ukraine to genocide the Russians and other peoples close to them, finance and supply the forces with weapons that rob and rape Russians in neighboring countries and forcing them to leave their property to flee to Russia.
                      4. ja-ja-vw
                        ja-ja-vw 15 October 2021 15: 58
                        -1
                        Quote: gsev
                        Probably only near Chechnya during the years of its independence an order of magnitude more trains were robbed than during the period you indicated in the United States.

                        How do you normally reasonably compare the "train park" of the 18th century and the late 20 / early 21st century?
                        In Chechnya, more tanks were knocked out than ... oh yes, there were no tanks then
                        Quote: gsev
                        The United States does not have strong enemies among its neighbors. O

                        because they became stronger than everyone else, otherwise the E2 squadron seemed to be sending them to help them
                        Quote: gsev
                        However, the United States provokes Moldova, the Baltic States and Ukraine into genocide of Russians and other peoples close to them, finances and supplies

                        I would like to read any facts ...
                        During the Crimean War "the agreement on the rights of neutral ships at sea in 1854", American doctors in the ranks of the Russian army in the Crimea
                        1841- The steamboat-frigate "Kamchatka" was the best wheeled ship in our fleet, but was brought from America,
                        famine in Russia in 1891-1892 - the first international humanitarian action of the American Red Cross of this scale (five ships loaded with food were sent to Russia)
                        Do you remember Aivazovsky?

                        At the request of the Soviet government, the Americans launched a program of assistance during the famine in the Volga region of 1921-1922. The US Congress allocated $ 20 million to the American administration. In turn, the War Department transferred $ 4 million worth of medical supplies, without which a widespread vaccination campaign against typhus, cholera and smallpox would have been impossible. In total, more than $ 60 million was raised, and the program reached 10,5 million Russians.

                        29.09.1999
                        The United States has received an official request from Russia to provide additional food aid this year, US Secretary of Agriculture Dan Glickman said in Washington.
                        ====================
                        we are somehow genocidal
                      5. gsev
                        gsev 16 October 2021 01: 08
                        0
                        Quote: ja-ja-vw
                        The United States has received an official request from Russia to provide additional food aid this year, US Secretary of Agriculture Dan Glickman said in Washington.

                        At the end of Yeltsin's presidency, everyone believed that Putin was put in charge of Russia during its complete disintegration, in order to write off all subsequent failures as a scapegoat to him. However, 15 years later, US politicians either declare that Russia has been contained, that they have torn its economy to shreds, or that they have new sanctions, or they send the Russophobe Nuland to a meeting with third-party officials with an invitation to Russia to contain China. And in the last year, it turns out that Europe and the United States have losses from covid hundreds of times greater than the PRC, that the energy crisis hits Europe harder than the PRC, and if the PRC is able to exist without concessions from Russia, then Europe is not capable, then NATO is losing The 100 thousandth army of the Taliban and forgets that once in 2002 they were going to crush Iran and the DPRK, then Turkey becomes equal in influence to Western Europe and the Bulgarians and Hungarians with the Austrians begin to think about the revival of a new Turkish empire in the Balkans. And about mutual assistance, the United States should not forget that the Southern Division of the Russian Imperial Navy was not an extra weight that outweighed the non-entry of Great Britain on the side of the Confederation in the civil war. And the United States got rid of the tribute to the Algerian pirates thanks to the victories of Ushakov, Suvorov and Kutuzov in the wars of 1768-1812. Russians
              2. gsev
                gsev 15 October 2021 15: 24
                0
                Quote: ja-ja-vw
                The road is not only bedding, but also calculation (forest), leveling, bridges, etc. Even inns.
                There a utility block, as in the Man from Boulevard des Capucines, and they appeared only by the end of the 18th century.

                The cycle of creating the most labor-intensive and time-consuming industry - hydroelectric power plants - takes 15-30 years with adequate management. So, both Russia and the United States began to develop under equal initial conditions. Catherine II eliminated the obstacle in the person of Turkey and Crimean Tataria and the United States freed itself from the colonial ban on creating industry in a historically equal period. The house is being built in one summer, just as the pilgrim fathers in the USA or the Russian pioneers in Mangazeya built their houses.
      2. militarist63
        militarist63 11 October 2021 23: 18
        +1
        Dear, about yours: "We are looking at the handrail antennas on our tanks" Sir, it's a T-26RT radio tank! Linear tanks T-26, which most radio stations did not have! The same is with BT-5, BT-7, where only radio modifications had radio stations, and linear tanks did not have any radio stations (while there were the overwhelming majority of them)! And the BT-2 (of which at the beginning of the war there were 580 units in the troops) did not have any variants of a tank with radio stations at all! The commanders of all these line units (of the above tanks) were supposed to control flags ... from the hatch!
        And even when the war had already begun, the new serial light tank T-70 (put into service in January 1942) had a radio station only on command vehicles, while line tanks again for some reason deprived of this means of communication!
        1. ja-ja-vw
          ja-ja-vw 11 October 2021 23: 55
          -2
          Quote: militarist63
          Respected

          Do you have a high respected ping or have you been looking for / consulted for a long time?
          Maybe radio, I'm not special.
          mister, but this saying has nothing to do with tank radios anyway.
          Quote: hohol95
          good communication with the Army Air Force and between infantry and tank formations.
          Alas. There were big problems with this.

          Quote: militarist63
          The same is with BT-5, BT-7, where only radio modifications had radio stations, and linear tanks had no

          and this monsieur has nothing to do with problems with radio communications in the Red Army
          and this sehr geehrte Herr also has nothing to do with your statement about the lack of communication in the Red Army (army air force, infantry and tanks)
          Quote: militarist63
          should have been flags ... from the hatch!

          did the T-34 even have a walkie-talkie? (the Americans praised her).
          In total, in 1935, plant number 183 produced 2596 BT-7 line tanks and 2017 BT-7RT tanks with radio stations;
          In total, in 1934, KhPZ manufactured 1103 BT-5, of these, 243 tanks were equipped with 71-TK-1 radio stations (20 more radio BT-5s were delivered at the end of 1933)

          In February 1941, in a light tank company of a tank battalion of a German tank division, Fu.5 transceivers were installed on three Pz.II and five Pz.IIIs, and on two Pz.II and twelve Pz. III "only the" Fu.2 "receivers were installed. In a company of medium tanks, the transceivers had five Pz.IV and three Pz.IIs, and two Pz.IIs and nine Pz.IVs only had receivers. On the Pz.I, the Fu.5 transceivers were not installed at all, with the exception of the special commander's klPz.Bef.Wg.I

          BT-5 tanks 45 mechanized corps (and a walkie-talkie, it is clear who has flags)

          in the 19th Panzer Division of the 22nd Mechanized Corps, which collided with German tanks on June 24, 1941 near Voynitsa, there were 47 T-26 single-turret radium tanks, 75 T-26 single-turret linear tanks, 6 BT-7 tanks "Linear, 6" BT-7 "radio, 14" BT-5 "linear, 3" BT-5 "radio, 5" BT-2 "machine-gun (without radio stations)
          In all western districts, on June 22, they included 1993 T-26 single-turret linear tanks, 1528 "T-26" single-tower radio, 1499 BT-7 linear tanks, 1212 "BT-7" radio
          There is no difference in radioification that goes from quantity to quality.
          Won in the Fury Mickey Rourke on Sherman, I generally climbed onto the tower and took aim with my eyes, and this was in April 1945. belay
          And the Germans did not shy away from flags
          1. militarist63
            militarist63 12 October 2021 01: 13
            -2
            also has nothing to do with your statement about the lack of communication in the red army (army air force, infantry and tanks)

            You would, for a start, figure out someone's statement ... and write to the author. laughing laughing il your ping is buggy, does it stick right there ?! wink
            1. ja-ja-vw
              ja-ja-vw 12 October 2021 10: 54
              -1
              Quote: militarist63
              You would, for a start, figure out someone's statements

              what


              have a snack you need to write down, since you don't remember
              1. militarist63
                militarist63 12 October 2021 23: 22
                0
                you need to write down a snack, since you don't remember
                Yes, sir, you should write down or have a snack, or maybe both at once, but it is better to switch to some easier means! wink laughing What side to me ... sayings of Alexey under the nickname hohol95 ???! laughing
              2. ja-ja-vw
                ja-ja-vw 12 October 2021 23: 34
                +1
                Urmetti myrza! keshiriniz! But for sure: I blunt.
                I apologize, ubaastabyllah sir. I'm a donkey.
                You just drown so identically for
                "bad dancer ???? get in the way"

                that you merged with me like Siamese
                However, the essence does not change
                Quote: ja-ja-vw
                There is no difference in radioification that goes from quantity to quality.

                and opponents used flags with pleasure (such times)
                therefore hi
                Pardon my French and just Pardon
  2. Konnick
    Konnick 12 October 2021 10: 08
    -1
    Only a deeply echeloned defense with a large amount of artillery and air defense systems could oppose them in the USSR. With good communication with the Army Air Force and between infantry and tank formations.
    Alas. There were big problems with this.
    But before that, the Poles, the French and the British had similar problems!

    Alas, with air supremacy, the clear interaction of tankers with assault aircraft nullified the anti-tank defense. Our air defense systems were sorely lacking, and the primary goal of the German artillery was the destruction of anti-aircraft artillery before air strikes. The Germans worked this tactic back in France. Air reconnaissance in the Luftwaffe was at a very good level. Therefore, at the beginning of the war, when our aviation was defeated, the Wehrmacht's tank wedges moved almost without hindrance.
    1. ja-ja-vw
      ja-ja-vw 12 October 2021 11: 17
      0
      Quote: Konnick
      We were sorely lacking air defense weapons, and

      Seriously?
      In total, by the beginning of the war, the Air Defense Forces of the country had: Air Defense Corps - 3, Air Defense Divisions - 2, individual Air Defense Brigades - 9, individual anti-aircraft artillery regiments - 28, individual anti-aircraft artillery battalions - 109, VNOS regiments - 6, separate VNOS battalions - 35 and a number of other parts. Their combat strength consisted of 182 thousand personnel, 3329 medium-caliber anti-aircraft guns, 330 small-caliber anti-aircraft guns, 650 anti-aircraft machine guns, 1500 anti-aircraft searchlights, 850 barrage balloons, 45 radar detection stations. The 40 fighter aviation regiments allocated from the Air Force for the purposes of the country's air defense had about 1500 aircraft.
      The fighter aviation units allocated for the country's air defense were equipped with aircraft only at 60%. On their arsenal were fighters: I-15 – 1%, I-16 – 66%, I-153 – 24%, Yak-1 and MiG-1 – 9%; A number of MiG-3 and LaGG-3 aircraft were also received.
      / Soviet military encyclopedia, he. 2.M., 1976, p. 317; Bulletin of Air Defense, 1978, No. 3, p. 81.

      and where else was there such air defense?
      England had 4 air groups under the general command of Air Marshal Dowding for air cover of the country (704 aircraft, including 620 fighters, and 289 in reserve); along the coast there was a network of radar installations that provided an air defense system (80 radars), up to two thousand anti-aircraft guns, about 1,5 thousand barrage balloons.

      Quote: Konnick
      the primary goal of the German artillery was the destruction of anti-aircraft artillery before air strikes.

      belay
      Is it like that?
      The main weapon of the divisional artillery of the German army was a 105-mm light field howitzer model 18 on a carriage with sliding frames, which had the greatest firing range of 13 m
      150-mm heavy field howitzer model 18 with a firing range of 13 m
      105-mm cannon sample 18/40 on mechanical traction was in service with the artillery units of the reserve the main command. Sometimes individual batteries of these guns were included in the tank divisions. The longest firing range of the 105-mm cannon was approximately 21 m
      150-mm cannon model 18, having a firing range of 24 m, was in service with artillery units reserve the main command. It was mainly used to engage targets located deep in enemy defenses at a distance approximately twice the firing range of divisional artillery.

      How did they get to our anti-aircraft artillery?
      Or did ours roll out anti-aircraft guns for direct fire?
      The Air Defense Forces of the country, created by the beginning of the Great Patriotic War, although not yet formed into an independent branch of the armed forces, occupied an important place in terms of their intended purpose, tasks and combat strength, being one of the factors of the military power of the USSR. They were the backbone of the entire air defense system of the Soviet Union. Their forces in the border strip to a depth of 150-250 km carried out the entire VNOS service, without which it was impossible either to detect the air enemy in a timely manner, or to conduct a successful fight against him. The forces of the Air Defense Forces of the country mainly provided anti-aircraft artillery cover for strategic objects in the threatened zone. So, for example, two-thirds of the anti-aircraft artillery guns available by June 22, 1941 in the Kiev Special Military District, as well as all anti-aircraft searchlights and barrage balloons, were part of the country's air defense units ... The grouping of the country's Air Defense Forces was created in accordance with the established General headquarters with a list of specific objects to be covered by air defense forces. According to this list, the bulk of the Air Defense Forces of the country's territory was located in the threatened zone along the western border and in the Transcaucasus at a depth of 500-600 km. In this zone, 90% of all anti-aircraft artillery and almost all fighter aircraft allocated for solving air defense missions were located. In the western direction, the defense of the most important points and objects was carried out approximately to the line of the r. Dnieper, and in the south - along the Grozny - Kutaisi line, and most of the anti-aircraft artillery performed the task of protecting railway transport facilities.
      / TsAMO, f. 72, op. 12274, d.2, l. 12; Voenno-istoricheskiy zhurnal. 1968, no. 3, p. 28.
      Quote: Konnick
      Air reconnaissance in the Luftwaffe was at a very good level. Therefore, at the beginning of the war, when our aviation was defeated,

      1. At what level? what is the advantage? in the material and technical base? in optics?
      2.To defeat such an armada of our aviation

      all the planes of Europe collected in one pile would not be enough, the Japanese would have to ask
  • Alf
    Alf 11 October 2021 20: 23
    +1
    Quote: hohol95
    At the beginning, what was the most massive Pz.III war?
    Don't you confuse?

    At 22.06.41.
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 11 October 2021 21: 30
      -1
      What about September 1, 1939?
      1. Alf
        Alf 11 October 2021 21: 32
        +3
        Quote: hohol95
        What about September 1, 1939?

        A counter question, did the USSR enter the war in the 39th?
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 11 October 2021 21: 59
          -1
          If you attribute the Liberation Campaign to World War II ... hi
          And by July 22, the Czech 38s were in third place. And on the first there were "deuces" - this can be seen from your table!
          "Troikas" are only second in number. hi
          1. Alf
            Alf 11 October 2021 22: 05
            +1
            Quote: hohol95
            "Troikas" are only second in number.

            Which side? Just the first, 37 + 50 = 990 in units and 1440 in general, against T-2 894 in units and 1094 in general.
            1. hohol95
              hohol95 12 October 2021 08: 22
              0
              Again I blindly missed the column about "troikas" with 37 mm "barrels" ...
              Byada byada ... what
              1. Alf
                Alf 12 October 2021 17: 58
                +1
                Quote: hohol95
                Again I blindly missed the column about "troikas" with 37 mm "barrels" ...
                Byada byada ... what

                Let the one who says that he is perfect be the first to throw a stone at me. hi
                1. hohol95
                  hohol95 12 October 2021 18: 06
                  0
                  Let the boy pass ... but do not twist his hands, he is good for your fathers ... drinks
          2. gsev
            gsev 16 October 2021 01: 45
            +1
            Quote: hohol95
            If you attribute the Liberation Campaign to World War II ..

            Churchill in October 1939 declared in an open speech that as a result of the Liberation campaign of the Red Army, the USSR had created a second Eastern Front against Hitler.
        2. ja-ja-vw
          ja-ja-vw 11 October 2021 22: 07
          -1
          Quote: Alf
          Did the USSR enter the war in 39?

          In the 12-volume "History of the Second World War 1939-1945." about the "liberation mission of the Soviet Army" in the 3rd volume, published in 1974, and the thesis is introduced that
          As a result of the liberation campaign, the border of the Soviet Union was moved to the west by 250-350 km. Thus, the Soviet Union, already in the first weeks of the Second World War, blocked the path of the advancing German-fascist troops and deprived the German command of the opportunity to use the territory Western Ukraine and Western Belarus as a springboard for further aggression.

          it turns out entered request
          World War II - September 1, 1939.
          "block the path" and not go to war ...
          1. Alf
            Alf 11 October 2021 22: 15
            +3
            Quote: ja-ja-vw
            it turns out entered

            Did the cannons shoot?
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 11 October 2021 22: 56
              +3
              They were shooting.
              The losses of the Red Army amounted to 1400 people killed.
              Poland from the east was defended only by battalions of the local militia.
              All regular Polish troops were on the western front.
              In the photo on September 20, 1939, soldiers of the Red Army and the Wehrmacht
              in Brest. Inspect the equipment.
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 12 October 2021 15: 57
                0
                And the Germans for ours and ours for the Germans ...
            2. ja-ja-vw
              ja-ja-vw 11 October 2021 22: 58
              +1
              Quote: Alf
              Did the cannons shoot?

              is this a criterion?
              Grzybowski on a note handed to him at the People's Commissariat for Foreign Affairs on September 17, 1939 by the Deputy People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs Vladimir Potemkin
              The sovereignty of the state exists as long as the soldiers of the regular army are fighting. Napoleon entered Moscow, but as long as Kutuzov's army existed, it was believed that Russia existed. Where did the Slavic solidarity go?



              About the Soviet shelling of the Brest fortress - a book published in 1992 by the Polish researcher of the history of the Brest Fortress Jerzy Sroki (Sroka 1992: 99-101). It quotes the testimony of former Corporal Jan Samosiuk on September 5, 1981 (Sroka 1992: 152), and Beshanov's account is a slightly adapted retelling of Samosiuk's testimony.
              True or not, I don't know. Something is dull there.
              But
              700 thousand people took part in the campaign from the USSR, 6000 guns, 4500 tanks, 4000 aircraft. / Speech over the radio by Chairman of the Council of People's Commissars V.M. Molotov on September 17, 1939.
              that no one would fire?
              according to Meltyukhov: 17 tanks, 6 aircraft, 6 guns and mortars and 36 vehicles were also lost
              1. Alf
                Alf 12 October 2021 18: 00
                +1
                Quote: ja-ja-vw
                and this is the criterion

                Was there a declaration of war?
                1. ja-ja-vw
                  ja-ja-vw 12 October 2021 18: 09
                  -1
                  Quote: Alf
                  Was there a declaration of war?

                  is that another criterion for participation in 2 MV?
                  casus belli casus foederis - entry into the war based on the terms of a strategic alliance agreement with one of the belligerent parties.
                  Definition of aggression
                  Approved by General Assembly Resolution 3314 of December 14, 1974
                  Article 1
                  Aggression is the use of armed force by a state against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another state, or in any other way incompatible with the Charter of the United Nations, as established in this definition.
                  Explanatory Note: In this definition, the term “state”
                  a) is used without prejudice to the question of recognition or the question of whether the state is a member of the United Nations;
                  (b) includes, where appropriate, the concept of a “group of States”.

                  oh yes "there was no UN"

                  Note handed to the Polish ambassador on September 17, 1939

                  Mr. Ambassador,
                  The Polish-German war revealed the internal bankruptcy of the Polish state. ..... the Soviet government issued an order to the High Command of the Red Army order troops to cross the border and ....
                  Accept, Mr. Ambassador, the assurances of perfect respect for you.
              2. gsev
                gsev 15 October 2021 15: 11
                0
                Quote: ja-ja-vw
                Grzybowski on a note handed to him at the People's Commissariat for Foreign Affairs on September 17, 1939 by the Deputy People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs Vladimir Potemkin
                The sovereignty of the state exists as long as the soldiers of the regular army are fighting. Napoleon entered Moscow, but as long as Kutuzov's army existed, it was believed that Russia existed. Where did the Slavic solidarity go?

                Churchill, unlike the Polish supernationalists, adequately understood the Red Army's 1939 Liberation campaign. As a result of this campaign, the foundations of the defeat of Hitlerite Germany were laid. Since the Wehrmacht was not allowed to take a bridgehead twice as close to Minsk, Kiev, Odessa and Crimea. Perhaps this distance was not enough for the Germans to reach Gorky and Stalingrad by the fall of 1941, ensuring the entry of Japan and Turkey into the war on the side of Germany. In addition, a modern mono-national Poland would look wild with Western Belarus and Western Ukraine with a non-Polish population, as nationalist Ukraine with the Russian-speaking Crimea and Eastern Ukraine looks wild.
                1. ja-ja-vw
                  ja-ja-vw 15 October 2021 15: 32
                  -1
                  Quote: gsev
                  Churchill, unlike the Polish supernationalists, adequately understood the Red Army's 1939 Liberation campaign.

                  belay
                  maybe Lord Curzon? Churchill became PM only in May 1940. Poland was no longer there, and before PM, he was, no matter how anyone.
                  Churchill:
                  And now, when all these advantages and all this aid have been lost and discarded, England, leading France, proposes to guarantee the integrity of Poland - the very Poland that, just six months ago, with the greed of a hyena, took part in the robbery and destruction of the Czechoslovak state .. .. And yet now the two Western democracies have finally declared their readiness to put their lives on the line because of the territorial integrity of Poland

                  Chamberlain:
                  I must now inform the House that ... in the event of any action which would clearly threaten the independence of Poland and which the Polish government therefore deems vital to resist with its national armed forces, His Majesty's Government will consider itself obligated to immediately provide the Polish government with all possible support ... It gave the Polish government an assurance in this sense. I may add that the French government has authorized me to clarify that it takes the same position on this issue as the government of His Majesty ...
                2. gsev
                  gsev 16 October 2021 01: 30
                  0
                  [/ quote] ja-ja-vw (Lieutenant Rzhevsky)
                  maybe Lord Curzon? Churchill became PM only in May 1940.

                  I will assume that you were referring to Lord Curzon, who indulged Japan in its attempts to annex China and contributed to the Polish occupation of the Ukrainian and Belarusian lands during the civil war and the Polish intervention in Russia. By his ultimatum at the Foreign Ministry, he helped to strengthen Soviet-German cooperation. In my opinion, by September 1, 1939, he was an insignificant figure in the British establishment, and since September 1, 1939, no one at all. And in my opinion, after September 1, Churchill, holding the post of Minister of War, was already a more influential figure than Chamberlain with his handouts to Hitler, who provoked World War II. The Russian wiki reports this.
                  "
                  Winston Churchill, then First Lord of the Admiralty, said in a radio address on October 1, 1939:
                  The fact that the Russian armies had to stand on this line was absolutely necessary for the security of Russia against the Nazi threat. Be that as it may, this line exists and an Eastern Front has been created, which Nazi Germany would not dare to attack. When Mr. Ribbentrop was summoned to Moscow last week, he had to learn and accept the fact that the implementation of Nazi plans in relation to the Baltic countries and Ukraine should be finally stopped. [Quote]

                  Are you saying that this information in the Russian world is fake? In my opinion, Churchill was instructed to voice in this speech a collective assessment of the British leadership as the most respected and influential person in Britain at that time and to send a signal to Stalin unequivocally that Britain, at least for the duration of the war, is refusing to attempt an alliance with Hitler and Polish émigrés. confront the USSR ..
                3. ja-ja-vw
                  ja-ja-vw 16 October 2021 13: 06
                  -1
                  https://www.facebook.com/BBCArchive/videos/364578817755285/
                  here is the speech.
                  listen to it.
                4. gsev
                  gsev 16 October 2021 18: 04
                  0
                  Quote: ja-ja-vw
                  here is the speech.
                  listen to it

                  I don't know much spoken English. In my opinion, in the passage you quoted, Churchill negates the participation of British shipowners in supplying the rebellious South. Read the story of the ship Trent carrying emissaries of the South. After the feds hijacked the ship and arrested the southerners, Britain threatened to go to war against the northerners if its ultimatum was rejected. It was foolish for the British to admit their support for the South in the 19th century, when the United States had strong opponents of intervention in the world war from 1939 to 1941, and Roosevelt, with great difficulty, managed to start first preparations for war with the Germans and then the fight against German submarines in the Western Atlantic without declaring war. The West and then the Poles recognized the border along the Curzon line. Churchill was smart enough to sow mistrust in Hitler and Stalin by declaring the recognition of the Curzon Line by the anti-German eastern front. But these are things of bygone days. And today McFaul and Nuland, not recognizing the withdrawal of the left-bank Ukraine to Russia, are leading everything to profuse European civilization in favor of the Muslim-Turkic world.
  • Outsider V.
    Outsider V. 11 October 2021 12: 53
    +3
    Dear Author, understand the common truth for yourself that it is not a tank that is fighting, but a tank unit (corps, division, regiment ..), inside which these tanks (and not only tanks) interact. I no longer take the fact that the tank units themselves are combined with other units not only tank units (aviation, artillery, etc.). In the mobilized and well-oiled military machine of the Wehrmacht, all this was polished to automatism.


    In fairness, we quote the author under discussion:
    .. The Germans involved in the blitzkrieg STRUCTURES - tanks plus motorized infantry, plus mechanized artillery, all this was multiplied by excellent reconnaissance and communications, while here ...
  • militarist63
    militarist63 11 October 2021 22: 16
    0
    Quite right, everything was laid out! Repekt! soldier
  • hohol95
    hohol95 14 October 2021 17: 02
    0
    How did the Soviet T-34 and KV-1 (except for weapons) superior to the Wehrmacht tanks?
  • antivirus
    antivirus 11 October 2021 08: 06
    +15
    another after-knower.
    Several tank (tractor) factories and their 10-30 subcontractors are a drop in the sea, around an ocean of bast peasants. who only learned letters and metal combines and horse-drawn mowers.
    the country was moving from rural forges to the giants of the social industry ...
    the feat of GKZH and Mekhlis with Kuznetsovm is not in the orders of the storming of Berlin, BUT THE ABILITY TO EXPLAIN 100 MILLION PEASANTS THE PURPOSE OF LIFE AND VICTORY (and actions for that Victory - digging from here until the end of the year + after lunch) in simple words.

    giants of the full-cycle industry - for self-sufficiency, because the supply by subcontractors and subcontractors is long and not guaranteed in terms of time and the quality may be problematic.
    there is still no Toyota system indicating the day, hour and specific factory gates (only "we are leaving right now")

    as they could - so they lived and built the country
  • hohol95
    hohol95 11 October 2021 05: 26
    +24
    Author!
    You are confused about the sequence of tank production in the USSR!
    T-18 (MS-1) was accepted for service in 1927!
    And work on the "maneuverable" T-12 tank had just begun!
    They decided on purchases due to the inability of their own designers to create what the military demanded!
    But the machines themselves, bought in Britain and the United States, had to be altered and, in fact, to create quite combat-ready tanks on their basis.
    On the "6-ton" vehicles bought from the British, for example, there were no instruments for monitoring the battlefield at all! Machine gun scopes only.
    1. Crowe
      Crowe 11 October 2021 05: 57
      +21
      Author!
      You are confused
      Unfortunately, this is already becoming a bad tradition.
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 11 October 2021 07: 51
        +9
        Stability is a "sign of skill" ... hi
      2. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 11 October 2021 08: 20
        +11
        It seems to me that the author has confused the editions. He should publish this article in the "young technician" or in the "pioneer", "bonfire" (what is published there now for children?)
        After reading the title and the first paragraph, I suspected that Irina Frolova had been given another chance.
        1. Ashes of Claes
          Ashes of Claes 11 October 2021 09: 50
          +7
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          publish or in "pioneer", "fire" (what is published there now for children?)

          Tick ​​tock?
          laughing
          1. Proxima
            Proxima 11 October 2021 10: 06
            +11
            The author, ask the moderators to delete the article, in any case, I highly do not recommend continuing to write to you. By the evening, "long-range artillery" in the form of "tankmen" will pull up, it will be hard for you .. crying
            1. Outsider V.
              Outsider V. 11 October 2021 12: 59
              +8
              I'll add my 3 kopecks to the criticism: Carden-Loyd, contrary to popular belief, is written with one "l": from John Valentine Carden and Vivian Graham Loyd.
            2. Alf
              Alf 11 October 2021 20: 28
              +1
              Quote: Proxima
              ask the moderators to delete the article, in any case, I highly do not recommend continuing to write to you.

              Do not shoot the pianist, he plays as best he can.
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty 11 October 2021 05: 32
    +13
    I wonder if the author was so joked? We are waiting for intrigue, unknown information, or little-known, we read what we ourselves knew !!! Anyone can write such a generalization!
  • faiver
    faiver 11 October 2021 05: 49
    +15
    By 1939, everything was sad, and by 1941, it was hopeless, within the framework of the existing tank forces, which the war showed.
    - can the author tell you who was better? both qualitatively and quantitatively ...
    Germany invaded the USSR with Pz-1, Pz-2, Pz-35, Pz-38, Pz-3 and Pz-4 plus a French trophy brood from Ft-17 to Cher-bis. Which of these was better than Soviet tanks? technically nothing. Another issue is the training of personnel and interaction between units, plus communications, here the USSR was losing in all respects, but this is not a problem of Soviet tanks, but of the entire Red Army.
    1. Ashes of Claes
      Ashes of Claes 11 October 2021 11: 27
      +2
      Quote: faiver
      Pz-1 ... Cher-bis

      then HR и Ball. hi
      not in terms of tediousness, but jarring, by God.
      1. faiver
        faiver 11 October 2021 13: 16
        +1
        to be honest, I broke off Claudia into Latin to translate bully
    2. Alf
      Alf 11 October 2021 20: 30
      0
      Quote: faiver
      here the USSR was losing in all respects, but this is not a problem of Soviet tanks, but of the entire Red Army.

      As Clement Efremovich said, the Red Army is strong, but the connection will destroy it.
  • faiver
    faiver 11 October 2021 05: 59
    +18
    And in the end, there was zero benefit - a racing tank was simply not needed, and weak armor and an aircraft engine made it also dangerous for the crew.
    - can the author tell us about light Wehrmacht tanks with thicker armor and diesel engines?
  • Nafanya from the sofa
    Nafanya from the sofa 11 October 2021 06: 14
    +22
    about the projects of our Da Vinci - Mendeleev,

    Note to the author: "Our Da Vinci" is Dmitry Ivanovich Mendeleev. And the tank was invented by Vasily Dmitrievich Mendeleev, his son, a shipbuilding engineer, who was not distinguished by anything special.
    A representative of one of the northern peoples is not a reader
    He is a writer (Folk wisdom)

    But repeat
  • Per se.
    Per se. 11 October 2021 07: 20
    +11
    The creation of the Red Army tank forces is a feat, a feat, accomplished from scratch and with unparalleled efforts, but a senseless feat - a huge armada of tanks did not play its role.

    A feat, if it is a feat, cannot be meaningless, just by definition. If the author wanted to focus on the losses in 1941, so many planes were lost, and the creation of the Air Force, also a feat of the Soviet people, maybe aviation, like tanks, is meaningless for the author?
    It was the tank armies that eventually broke the back of Nazism, becoming the main striking force of the ground forces.
    What did the author want to say, what is he going to say in the sequel? It is strange that this article under the heading "Armament" would be more suitable for "Opinion", it would come off for the work of an "agent of foreign influence" who loathes the role and number of tanks left in Russia.
  • svp67
    svp67 11 October 2021 07: 35
    +15
    Sorry, but sometimes people just amaze ...
    And in the end, there was zero benefit - a racing tank was simply not needed, and weak armor and an aircraft engine made it also dangerous for the crew.
    This is about BT ... What kind of racing? Didn't the author have the idea to dig a little deeper? Why exactly the wheeled-tracked tanks of the USSR were needed. Tank races to arrange or have tank formations capable of moving quickly and far, without the help of tractors, which is called operational maneuverability. Without this "racing" quality, the USSR could not in general, and comrade Zhukov personally won a victory at Khalkin-Gol. Could not make long marches and quickly complete the Manzhur operation ...
    1. faiver
      faiver 11 October 2021 08: 18
      +4
      looks like rhizunoid verses ...
      1. Ashes of Claes
        Ashes of Claes 11 October 2021 15: 46
        0
        Quote: faiver
        looks like rhizunoid verses ...

        It is also good that this Suvorovite called BT "racing", and not "tank-aggressor", as its inspirer.
        1. Dilettante grandfather
          Dilettante grandfather 11 October 2021 16: 33
          +1
          "Highway tanks are flying,
          Rollers rustling on the asphalt ... "
          It is a motorway, BT ... laughing
          Christie had a racing car. The aggressor ... I am at a loss, but, apparently, with Rezun.
          1. Ashes of Claes
            Ashes of Claes 11 October 2021 22: 41
            +2
            Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
            The aggressor ... I am at a loss, but, apparently, with Rezun.

            It was with him. Just don’t tell Ivanov that the first (and only) German tank-aggressor on a wheeled-gooseneck was tested at the Kama school near Kazan ... Tank G.Kh.Kh. (according to our classification) or Räder-Raupen Kampfwagen m / 28 in German. smile
            1. Dilettante grandfather
              Dilettante grandfather 13 October 2021 15: 46
              0
              well, I will not say. wink
    2. Ashes of Claes
      Ashes of Claes 11 October 2021 11: 42
      +5
      Quote: svp67
      This is about BT ... What kind of racing? And the author did not have the idea to dig a little deeper? Why exactly the wheeled-tracked tanks of the USSR were needed. Tank races to arrange or have tank formations capable of moving quickly and far

      Yes, Ivanov cringed, of course. Racing tanks are not even sharp, but stupidity. In addition, the quality of the BT tracks was awful. The British closed the issue of the wheeled goose. machines, increasing the gusli resource to unattainable heights - in 1930 Vik.6t. passed 4800 km on one set. The BT-2 limit was, it seems, 150 km. And in the BT-5 / BT-7 Service Manual in black and white
      the tracked course of the tank is the main one for carrying out the battle and the march ... The wheel drive of the tank is preferable for marches behind the lines of its troops over long distances in order to save the resource of the tracked chains ... for self-defense of tank columns on the march ..

      Isaev has all this in Antisuvorov.
      1. svp67
        svp67 11 October 2021 13: 10
        +2
        Quote: Ashes of Klaas
        the quality of the BT tracks was awful

        Yes, at that time it was a big problem for everyone, and even more so in the USSR, the poor quality of tracks was noted on the first T-34s
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 11 October 2021 16: 23
          +3
          Quote: svp67
          Yes, at that time it was a big problem for everyone, and even more so in the USSR, the poor quality of tracks was noted on the first T-34s

          There, the problem was not even in quality, but in changing the method of manufacturing tracks - the transition from stamping to casting - after which the resource fell sharply. Moreover, they took the tank into service and tested it with stamped tracks, and the production vehicles went with cast ones.
          Bloody Gebnya wrote that in November 1940, based on the results of sea trials of three serial A-34s, it was established:
          Cast tracks of caterpillars quickly failed, broke off. During the run, 3 sets of tracks were replaced.
          It should be indicated that on the tanks tested by the state commission, the tracks were made up of stamped tracks that could withstand 3000 kilometers mileage, however after production launch, on the initiative of plant number 183 and with the consent of the NKSM and the GABTU of the Red Army, stamped tracks were replaced with cast onesthat have not passed the mileage warranty test.

          And this was not only the case with the tracks:
          Rubber on all wheels collapsed and broke off. For the tanks tested by the State Commission, the Yaroslavl Rubber-Asbestos Plant has manufactured high-quality heavy-duty tires that can withstand 6000 kilometers of run, and for mass production, heavy-duty tires are manufactured that can withstand only 2000 kilometers.
          © Deputy People's Commissar of Internal Affairs of the Ukrainian SSR, Major of State Security Tkachenko. "Memorandum on the state of production of tanks" A-34 "at the plant number 183 in the city of Kharkov."

          And only by May 1941 the situation with the track links improved somewhat:
          New track links of STZ castings, according to the test results, provided 2200-2900 km and were put into mass production in March 1941. Work on further improvements to the track is ongoing.
        2. ja-ja-vw
          ja-ja-vw 11 October 2021 21: 18
          0
          Quote: svp67
          Yes, at that time it was a big problem for everyone, and even more so in the USSR, the poor quality of tracks was noted on the first T-34s

          So we kind of defended ourselves.
          We do not drive tank wedges, but blunt them. 150 km would be enough.

          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 12 October 2021 01: 45
            +2
            Quote: ja-ja-vw
            We do not drive tank wedges, but blunt them. 150 km would be enough.

            We have to prepare the crews. Teaching the T-34 crew only to drive - 45-50 hours. And this is about 250-300 km (or even more).
            Plus marches. At the beginning of the war, the 1st MK first reached Gatchina from Pskov, and then was transferred to Porkhov and Ostrov, to which the 4th TGr reached. And this is minus three sets of low-resource tracks for each tank.
            1. ja-ja-vw
              ja-ja-vw 12 October 2021 11: 25
              -1
              Quote: Alexey RA
              We have to prepare the crews. Teaching the T-34 crew only to drive - 45-50 hours.

              we have already discussed this

              I will not be original:
              In the organizations of Osoaviakhim bUp to 80% of the ground forces and navy and up to 100% of aviation were trained. The importance of Osoaviakhim in the issue of the country's defense during this period follows from the words of JV Stalin: “... we need to strengthen and strengthen our Red Army, Red Fleet, Red Aviation, Osoaviakhim in every possible way. We need to keep our entire people in a state of mobilization readiness in the face of the danger of a military attack, so that no "accident", no tricks of our external enemies, could catch us by surprise ...

              [Stalin I.V. Letter to Comrade Ivanov and the answer of Comrade Stalin. M., 1938 .. p.13.]
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 12 October 2021 12: 09
                +1
                How can I explain it better to you ... you can teach the T-34 to drive only on the T-34. Preparation of OSOAVIAKHIM is a CWP. And putting a person trained there at the levers of a T-34 is like putting someone trained in driving on a Zaporozhets into the cab of a tractor.
                Because the driving of the T-34 has many features characteristic of this particular tank that can make the life of the crew bright, but short-lived. I'm not talking about 30 kg on the control levers - a simple gear change is enough, during which the tank either stops at the driver without proper preparation, or even stalls (from the report on the transmissions of domestic tanks prepared by the Kubinka training ground in 1942).
                1. ja-ja-vw
                  ja-ja-vw 12 October 2021 13: 52
                  -1
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  How can I explain it better to you ..

                  no need. I've already heard.
                  easier (according to your versions):
                  - not ready (3 five-year plans?)
                  - "suddenly"
                  -not trained, there were no tanks (or there were plywood ones), also with planes
                  - cut the wires
                  One here gave out: field artillery destroyed the air defense
                  =================================================
                  because probably: the archives are classified until 2050 (or?), but what was opened: cleaned up.
                  и
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  OSOAVIAKHIM is a NVP

                  not true
                  I had a CWP, LONG before the collapse of the USSR, and my uncle OSOAVIAKHIM, the future tanker passed, just in 1948.
                  comparing NVP 1981-82 and OSOAVIAKHIM 1939-1941 is simply not serious.
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  (from the report on the transmissions of domestic tanks prepared by the Kubinka training ground in 1942)

                  where were the commission members in 1939?
                  On March 31, 1940, the Military Commission of Colonel V. M. Chernyaev wrote in the minutes of March 31, 1940: “The run was excellent. T-34 tanks meet the tactical and technical requirements (TTT) and are superior to other tanks. " The main decision: "The T-34 tank, manufactured in full compliance with the Decree of the Defense Committee under the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR of 19.12.1939/183/XNUMX, passed state tests and the Kharkov-Moscow run without any breakdowns and significant defects, should be recommended for immediate putting into production of factories No. XNUMX and STZ. / I. A. Likhachev, A. A. Goreglyad, K. E. Voroshilov
                  in 1940?
                  The order to put the T-34 into mass production was signed by the Defense Committee on March 31, 1940.

                  which provided during the entire Great Patriotic War absolute superiority of the T-34 tank in patency, maneuverability, mobility.

      2. Alf
        Alf 11 October 2021 20: 32
        0
        Quote: Ashes of Klaas
        The BT-2 limit was, it seems, 150 km.

        Motor hours are two different things.
        1. Ashes of Claes
          Ashes of Claes 12 October 2021 07: 47
          -1
          Quote: Alf
          Motor hours are two different things.

          Track life is measured in hours? What's the point of this?
          1. Alf
            Alf 12 October 2021 18: 09
            0
            Quote: Ashes of Klaas
            Quote: Alf
            Motor hours are two different things.

            Track life is measured in hours? What's the point of this?

            The total service life of the BT-7 was 250 hours. The service life of the tracks on the BT-7 was 1500 km.
    3. Catfish
      Catfish 11 October 2021 18: 08
      -1
      The Soviet command decided to fend off the threat of being surrounded by tanks. The 11th tank brigade, the 7th motorized armored brigade and the 24th motorized rifle regiment moved to the Bain-Tsagan area. Their task was to destroy the enemy on the eastern bank, so the re-targeting of the troops that had already crossed over took place at the last moment. The 1st battalion of the brigade (44 BT-5) at a speed of 45-50 km / h ran into the leading edge of the Japanese, destroyed the enemy with fire and tracks. The attack was not supported by infantry and artillery, and the tankers withdrew, leaving 20 damaged tanks on the battlefield, which were then burned with bottles of gasoline. The 3rd battalion, successively attacking the Japanese units, lost out of 50 BTs 20 burned out and 11 knocked out. The battalion of armored cars was shot at close range by anti-tank guns, losing 20 burned out and 13 knocked out of 50 armored vehicles.

      Although the Japanese withdrew from such a number of tanks, they are proud of Comrade. Zhukov has nothing special here, and later he did not really pay attention to his own losses.

      The Manchu Strategic Offensive Operation was conducted from August 9 to September 2, 1945. What BT tanks can we talk about?
      1. svp67
        svp67 11 October 2021 18: 38
        +7
        Quote: Sea Cat
        What BT tanks can we talk about?

        By the beginning of the operation, the troops of the 1st Far Eastern Front had 474 BT-7 tanks, and 377 of them were in good working order. The troops of the Trans-Baikal Front at that time had 49 BT-5 tanks and 422 BT-7 tanks of various modifications.

        Quote: Sea Cat
        The 11th tank brigade, the 7th motorized armored brigade and the 24th motorized rifle regiment moved to the Bain-Tsagan area.

        And you didn’t ask yourself where did this one come from, and other tank brigades came from? They had to make an 800 km march from Borzya station on their own in 6 days.
        Quote: Sea Cat
        Zhukov has nothing special here

        Everyone imagines himself to be a strategist ... I wonder what you would have done in those conditions ...
        He is a WINNER and that says it all.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 11 October 2021 19: 01
          0
          ... what would you have done in those conditions ...


          Well, it’s you in vain, I didn’t try to laugh at you. And about "He is a WINNER" - well, where to go, if in the end he was appointed to them. request
          And the attack of tanks without the support of infantry and artillery, you know what it leads to, and to what it led - to large and unnecessary losses.

          Regarding the BT in the Far East: I, of course, knew that they were present there, but they were not in the shock wedge of our tanks, by that time both the generals and the soldiers knew the value of these tanks, but the "thirty-fours" were stabbing the Japanese chi -ha "like nuts, BTshek would not have succeeded, they are of the same time and level with the Japanese old men.
          1. motorized rifle
            motorized rifle 11 October 2021 22: 02
            0
            It should be noted that Zhukov's decision was also bold and unusual because the regulations of that time did not provide for an independent strike by tank and armored units without the support of the infantry. But time was working for the enemy. Infantry, cavalry, and artillery continued to approach the Japanese from the eastern bank of Khalkhin-Gol. They created and improved defenses.

            Thus, the division commander G.K. Zhukov threw the 11th tank brigade, the 7th motorized armored brigade and a separate Mongolian armored division at the Japanese, knowing that the enemy had managed to create a strong anti-tank defense on Mount Bain-Tsagan, that he had over 100 anti-tank brigades here. guns and our units will suffer losses. I knew and deliberately took such a risky step. He understood that there was no other way out. To delay is to lose the battle altogether ...
            ... As we later learned from the prisoners, the Japanese were clearly taken by surprise. They did not expect such a powerful and daring blow, knowing that only armored troops approached Mount Bain-Tsagan, and believing that without infantry they would not dare to attack. They counted and miscalculated. The Bargut cavalry was the first to withstand the onslaught of our tanks. Leaving her position, she rushed in panic to the Khalkhin-Gol River ...
            ... Our regiment approached Mount Bain-Tsagan when the battle subsided a little. Both sides hastily put themselves in order, preparing for a new battle. I found the brigade commander Yakovlev in the battle formations of his tank brigade. He talked to the soldiers and commanders of one of the companies.
            The conversation was lively. The tankers shared their impressions of the first combat success.
            Seeing me, Yakovlev greeted amiably:
            - You're late, Ivan Ivanovich. So after all, without you, without your motorized riflemen, we can handle the Japanese. Am I right? - He asked the Red Army men.
            “We’ll manage,” they said.
            And I, I must confess, was not in the mood for jokes, because I was acutely worried about the delay of the regiment, although we were not guilty of it.

            From the memoirs of I.I. then the commander of the 24th motorized rifle regiment.
            Time, this is the factor that had to be won and it was it (time) that the Red Army was losing at the beginning of the war.
            1. Ashes of Claes
              Ashes of Claes 12 October 2021 09: 56
              0
              Quote: motorized infantryman
              G.K. Zhukov threw the 11th tank, 7th motorized armored brigades and a separate Mongolian armored division against the Japanese, knowing that the enemy had managed to create a strong anti-tank defense on Mount Bain-Tsagan, that he had over 100 anti-tank guns here

              memoirs, yeah ... The Japanese did not have any VET at all. The 26th regiment had only Type 11 (37mm) light infantry cannons at its disposal, which it used against tanks out of hopelessness. Without success to do with it. Shinichira writes in a report that all destroyed tanks were burned bottles... Yakovlev very quickly became convinced of the "boldness and unusualness" of Zhukov's incompetent decision, and on July 4-5, he no longer went to idiotic "tank lavas", preferring to shoot at the Japanese from a great distance. Toadying about Zhukov is understandable, but to attribute the departure from the canonical rules to his "courage" and innovation is, you know, a rather stupid idea.
          2. svp67
            svp67 12 October 2021 05: 41
            +1
            Quote: Sea Cat
            if in the end he was appointed to them.

            He is the one who was able to cope, before him the other appointed could not.
            Quote: Sea Cat
            And the attack of tanks without the support of infantry and artillery, you know what it leads to, and to what it led - to large and unnecessary losses.

            Which we can now calculate, but how can we compare them with the possible losses that our contingent would have suffered if it were not for it and the Japanese managed to first gain a foothold on this bridgehead, accumulate forces and with one blow go to the crossings and encircle our troops on on the other side of the Khalkin Gol, because that was exactly what was planned.
            Quote: Sea Cat
            but they were not in the shock wedge of our tanks,

            Where were they? They also took part in the battles like the rest of the tanks.
            Quote: Sea Cat
            but "thirty-fours" pricked Japanese "chi-ha" like nuts, BTshek would not have been able to do this, they are of the same time and level with the Japanese oldies.

            And a lot of "stabbed"? The very top of the ability to use tank troops is to be able to make such a maneuver when tanks go to the rear with impunity, smash everything that is possible there, and cause panic. which is thrown to the part of the leading edge and so they win. And BTs are perfect for this. By the way, their reliability turned out to be much higher than that of the T-26 ... to be honest, this is unexpected
            1. Ashes of Claes
              Ashes of Claes 12 October 2021 10: 09
              0
              Quote: svp67
              but how can we compare them with the possible losses that our contingent would have suffered if it had not been for it and the Japanese were able to first gain a foothold on this bridgehead

              yes it is already full. All these exculpatory praises of Zhukov are not worth a damn. Shinichira generally writes that heavy artillery fire caused particular concern. And the fire of tanks from a distance, and not their blunt frontal attack without infantry. That is why, having suffered significant losses from artillery fire, the 26th regiment began to withdraw to Manchuria. And not at all because of Yakovlev's ugly "banzai attack" on July 3rd. With it (due to the lack of accompanying infantry tanks) the Japanese coped with bottles. And here they are already quoting Fedyuninsky with his toadying - "Zhukov's bold and unusual decision." It was tactical cretinism. Something in the next 2 days Yakovlev did not dare to repeat the "bold and unusual".
              Quote: svp67
              The very top of the ability to use tank troops is to be able to make such a maneuver when tanks go to the rear with impunity, smash everything that is possible there, and cause panic.

              And which of the Soviet commanders demonstrated such superior tank aerobatics with large masses of tanks?
              1. svp67
                svp67 12 October 2021 11: 35
                +1
                Quote: Ashes of Klaas
                Shinichira generally writes,

                Yes, yes ... he also said that the German generals, so they generally described everything in such a way that it is impossible to understand, but why did not they win that war.
                It is impossible, when assessing the battle, to completely trust one of the parties, the more so the loser of this battle.
                Quote: Ashes of Klaas
                With it (due to the lack of accompanying infantry tanks) the Japanese coped with bottles.

                Yeah ... did you manage and completed the task set earlier to encircle the Soviet troops?
                Quote: Ashes of Klaas
                that heavy artillery fire was of particular concern.

                To a bad dancer ... Where was his artillery? Couldn't get across? Yes, and the Japanese, in those battles, completely showed how with a quick night attack they can reach our firing positions and chop the gun crews, but here they "didn't shmogla" ...
                Not having the enemy troops in front of him, seeing from where the Soviet artillery was working, having the cavalry under his command, and did not risk it ...
                Quote: Ashes of Klaas
                And which of the Soviet commanders demonstrated such superior tank aerobatics with large masses of tanks?

                In this case Vasilevsky, Malinovsky, Meretskov, Purkaev.
                And during the years of that war, this skill was perfectly shown by Rokossovsky, Zhukov, Konev, Chernyakhovsky, Vatutin ... and many others
                1. Ashes of Claes
                  Ashes of Claes 12 October 2021 22: 30
                  -1
                  Quote: svp67
                  Yeah ... did you manage and completed the task set earlier to encircle the Soviet troops?

                  On July 3, one battalion of Major Adachi fought with tanks.
                  Quote: svp67
                  It is impossible, when assessing the battle, to completely trust one of the parties, the more so the loser of this battle.

                  Of course, who's arguing. Only "all the more" is more suitable for the winning side. It's more comfortable to believe Fedyuninsky's memoir, isn't it?
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 13 October 2021 12: 43
                    -1
                    Quote: Ashes of Klaas
                    On July 3, one battalion of Major Adachi fought with tanks.

                    No. Behind this diagram
                    this is not true. The 1st and 2nd tank battalions of the 11th OLTBr had clashes with the Japanese in different places. 1 TB battalion collided with a battalion of 71 pp not far from the firing positions of our artillery, on the way to our crossings, and 2 TB with a battalion of 26 pp in the area of ​​the Japanese crossing.
                    The battle on the Japanese bridgehead lasted only one day, namely on July 03, 1939, after which it realized that intelligence had misled the Japanese command, reporting that the total number of Soviet-Mongolian troops opposing them was only 1000 people (roughly two battalion), 10 guns and a dozen armored vehicles, quickly cleared the bridgehead and withdrew to their shore. Still, an attack of one and a half hundred tanks, it is not clear where they came from ... this is not for the faint of heart.
                    Quote: Ashes of Klaas
                    It's more comfortable to believe Fedyuninsky's memoir, isn't it?

                    Maybe, but I like to analyze several sources and preferably antagonistic ones.
              2. hohol95
                hohol95 12 October 2021 18: 24
                0
                So the "samurai" just wanted to have a drink once they crossed over with some "bottles"?
                No artillery.
                No heavy machine guns.
                Without 20mm anti-tank "shaitan karamultuk".
                And they probably left the rifle cartridges in the barracks ...
          3. hohol95
            hohol95 13 October 2021 12: 59
            +1
            Sakhalin Island was liberated with T-26 tanks!
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 13 October 2021 13: 05
              0
              Were there Japanese tanks on Sakhalin, or serious anti-tank defenses? In the same place, everything for the Japanese was at the level of the 39th year, at best.
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 13 October 2021 15: 19
                0
                There they had to punch a road through the coastal taiga and storm the Khamitogsky UR - 12 km along the front and 16 km in depth. 2 lines of defense.
                The main one of 3 resistance nodes - up to 30 bunkers and up to 100 bunkers.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 13 October 2021 15: 44
                  0
                  The line of defense is somewhat different from the battles of tanks among themselves, this is what I meant.
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 13 October 2021 16: 51
                    0
                    In the Soviet-Finnish there was only 1 battle of tanks among themselves. However, this is not an indicator of the "easy walk" of Soviet tankers.
                    Terrain, anti-tank obstacles, minefields, bunkers and bunkers, field artillery and mortars.
                    Like on the Karelian Isthmus, on Sakhalin there were plenty of all these "obstacles".
                    And 2 battalions of T-26 tanks were not superfluous there. Together with the T-34-76 and T-34-85, they contributed to the victory!
                    As a tanker, you yourself experienced the "delights" of different terrain ...
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 13 October 2021 17: 20
                      +1
                      I'm not saying that it was a "walk", but I was in Karelsky, there was death for tanks, which was proven.
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 13 October 2021 18: 30
                        +1
                        Do you think on Sakhalin swamps and forest thickets are more welcoming to technology?
                        Our fighters managed to force one of the swamps and go to the rear of one of the nodes of resistance. The Japanese did not believe the reports that the Russians were in the rear. The swamp was considered impassable for the infantry!

                        T-26 destroyed during the assault on the Khandas police post. South Sakhalin.
                        Judging by the photo, the poor man had already been "dismantled for spare parts", but even the Germans did the same with the wrecked cars.
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 14 October 2021 09: 38
                        +1
                        Do you think on Sakhalin swamps and forest thickets are more welcoming to technology?

                        How did you decide that I think so? It's just that I have been on the Mannerheim Line more than once and have seen everything live, but I have never been to Sakhalin.
                        And broken equipment for parts was allowed in all the armies of the world, except for the American one, probably, these were all in bulk.
                      3. hohol95
                        hohol95 14 October 2021 16: 28
                        +1
                        I cannot suspect a 100% tanker of "cheating"!
                        It's just that sometimes it's worth "slightly strengthening" the terrain and an army equipped with 150% of EVERYTHING will not "crawl" there!
                        And about the Japanese breakthrough in Mongolia - 2 Japanese infantry regiments were rushing to the Soviet crossing (about 5 thousand fighters with ...)!
                        And on the crossing and the bridgehead on the other side there are only about 5 infantry battalions! Soviet!
                        6th Mongolian Cavalry Division "walked on the steppe" ...
                        And the infantry, artillery to support the arriving 11th tank brigade simply WASN'T! They arrived, but later ...
                        And the Japanese, having reached one of the bridges (not the main crossing) and destroying it, "decided that the job was done" ...
  • hohol95
    hohol95 12 October 2021 18: 18
    +1
    Did he have a choice of several proposals?
    In general, the Air Force "stalled" at first and there was no support from them.
    BTs and Manchuria fought. True, not at the forefront of strikes, but at all in the rear "did not sit out."
    Pasholok found data on the shielding of BT-7 tanks in the Far East during the "containment" of the Japanese on the border of the USSR.
    And it was done without pointers from the GBTU!
  • Sidor Amenpodestovich
    Sidor Amenpodestovich 11 October 2021 08: 10
    +1
    CER

    Claude Van Jean Damme.
  • Hagen
    Hagen 11 October 2021 08: 28
    +4
    The view was generally correct, but in particular ... The Germans had STRUCTURES in the blitzkrieg - tanks plus motorized infantry, plus mechanized artillery, all this was multiplied by excellent reconnaissance and communications, while we

    Unfortunately, I have to agree. While developing the theory of deep operations, the question of the balance of mobile units in mechanized corps was not resolved. The infantry remained on their feet, artillery, maxmum, on tractors, and in practice - on horse-drawn. Mr. Kulik generally ignored the appearance and experience of the use of assault guns by the Germans based on tanks (often outdated). Although the Germans built them since 1937 and used them in full growth in France.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 11 October 2021 15: 46
      +6
      Quote: Hagen
      Mr. Kulik generally ignored the appearance and experience of the use by the Germans of assault guns based on tanks (often outdated). Although the Germans built them since 1937 and used them in full growth in France.

      Kulik ignored? Before the war, artillery tanks performed the tasks of assault SPGs. And it was planned to create a whole family of them on the basis of serial tanks - for every taste, from anti-aircraft with MZA and fighter tanks with a 57-mm cannon to heavy ones with a 152-mm cannon. An art tank with a 152-mm howitzer and a fighter tank with a 57-mm anti-tank gun even managed to fight.
      However, work was carried out on the classic conning tower assault ACS - the same ACS 212. The beginning of work on the "self-propelled gun armed with 152 mm cannon BR-2" refers to June-July 1940. Then it was considered a bunker fighter, but in April 1941. the range of its tasks was expanded to include the fight against heavy tanks.
      To combat super-heavy tanks and pillboxes, create self-propelled installations of heavy artillery systems: 152-mm BR-2 cannon, 130-mm B-13 cannon and a powerful new 107-mm cannon.
      © letter from Marshal Kulik, April 17, 1941
      By the way, the SU-B-13 mentioned by Kulik was the second branch of the self-propelled guns - the Soviet waffentragger: a powerful cannon and 30 mm of armor.
      1. Hagen
        Hagen 11 October 2021 17: 03
        0
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Before the war, artillery tanks performed the tasks of assault SPGs.

        Do you want to tell how many of them were in the troops? Is that enough for a division, if you collect all the manufactured samples of all types? Artillery tanks could not perform any tasks, because they did not leave the stages of experimental production. The tasks are performed by units equipped with serial weapons, but there were none. So, maybe not only Kulik ignored. Everyone ignored it. All those on whom it depended.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 11 October 2021 17: 26
          +2
          Quote: Hagen
          Do you want to tell how many of them were in the troops?

          On June 1, 1941, there were 132 KV "with a big tower" and 65 BT-7A in the Western districts. In total, the Red Army had 134 KB BB and 117 BT-7A.
          Quote: Hagen
          So, maybe not only Kulik ignored. Everyone ignored it. All those on whom it depended.

          It's not about ignoring. The fact is that the chassis for heavy artillery tanks appeared only in 1940, and for medium and light - generally in 1941. And first of all, factories drove linear tanks in order to somehow saturate the armored vehicles with new technology.
          And with the beginning of the war, the same "Soviet shtug" (an art tank with a 76-mm short-barreled gun) was covered with the T-50 chassis.
          1. Hagen
            Hagen 11 October 2021 17: 45
            +1
            Quote: Alexey RA
            It's not about ignoring. The fact is that the chassis for heavy artillery tanks appeared only in 1940, and for medium and light - generally in 1941.

            And I think ignoring. The German type of assault gun, to which we finally came, is lighter and cheaper than the tank on the basis of which they were created. The essence of such an operation was that after removing the rotating turret, they placed a larger caliber gun in a fixed wheelhouse. And this did not lead to the need to strengthen the base chassis. We, while creating the art tank, tried to preserve the rotating tower. At the same time, weight grew inevitably. And the chassis, being not very good before ..., in the end lost even a meager resource. As a result, until Stalingrad itself we had a deficit of artillery support for a tank attack, and this, from the summer of 1942, became fatal for our tank forces for the next year and a half. By the way, the Germans after France did not hide their enthusiasm for the SPG. And we knew about this machine and examples of its use. In June 1941, 11 divisions came to us on these self-propelled guns. And although we had 200 KV-2s with a 152 mm howitzer, in 1941 we lost all of them, and not all of them in battles. The KV-2 was simply not capable of a long "travel" life due to its design. For a very long time we could not make our decision on the very concept of an "assault weapon".
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 11 October 2021 19: 30
              +1
              Quote: Hagen
              The German type of assault gun, to which we finally came, is lighter and cheaper than the tank on the basis of which they were created. The essence of such an operation was that after removing the rotating turret, they placed a larger caliber gun in a fixed wheelhouse. And this did not lead to the need to strengthen the base chassis. We, while creating the art tank, tried to preserve the rotating tower.

              On the other hand, to hit a target outside the firing sector of the gun, the artillery tank with a rotating turret did not have to turn the whole body and further engage in precise aiming of the gun - it was enough to turn the turret. In addition, aiming by the corps was extremely dangerous in the event that the enemy used "demonstrative" and "flirting" targets, since it deployed the conning tower of the SAU side to the positions of the PTA.
              Quote: Hagen
              For a very long time we could not make our decision on the very concept of an "assault weapon".

              So the chassis was not. The same self-propelled gun 212 is a classic conning tower. And there is nothing to put a body with a cannon on - both the T-220 and the KV-3 died before being born.
              With our "shtug" the problem is also in the chassis. With the T-50, the army flew by. And the next light assault SPG appeared after a fairly strong and stable chassis for a division appeared on the basis of a mass-produced tank.
              1. Hagen
                Hagen 11 October 2021 21: 16
                +1
                Quote: Alexey RA
                In addition, aiming by the corps was extremely dangerous in the event that the enemy used "demonstrative" and "flirting" targets, since it deployed the conning tower of the SAU side to the positions of the PTA.

                Well, yes. Only the designers of the SU-85/100 and other "hunters" did not know about it. And if the idea had been born earlier, then the 107mm ZiS-6 would not have been sent to the open-hearth, but would have found its place in the SPG, if problems with the turret appeared. Is not it so? And you look, near Kursk we would have quite suitable anti-tank artillery. As an option. This I mean that in many places we are trying to find our own personal path, or to invent another wheel.
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 12 October 2021 01: 25
                  +1
                  Quote: Hagen
                  Only the designers of the SU-85/100 and other "hunters" did not know about it.

                  And these are not assault, but tank destroyers. Which, according to the regulations, were supposed to go in the second line in the attack - just so that with their scanty UGNs they could cover as much of the front as possible.
                  And the second is the wartime self-propelled guns. Which sculpted as quickly as possible from what was. And there was the T-34 chassis and the SU-122 hull.
                  Quote: Hagen
                  And if the idea had been born earlier, then the 107mm ZiS-6 would not have been sent to open-hearth

                  All 5 pieces? wink
                  The most interesting thing is that the USSR had a reckless conning tower - the KV-7. But they did not meet with the ZIS-6 - after abandoning the first two weapons options (1x76-mm + 2x45-mm and 2x76-mm), they immediately began to try to shove a 152-mm gun into the wheelhouse of this tank. This is how the long and confusing history of the development of the 152-mm assault SPG began, which eventually led to the appearance of the SU-152 a year later.
                  And the ZIS-6 was killed by the cessation of production of a towed 107-mm gun and 107-mm caliber shells. Moreover, it killed so thoroughly that after a couple of years it turned out to be easier to make a 100-mm BBS from scratch than to restore the production of 107-mm shells.
                  Quote: Hagen
                  And you look, near Kursk we would have quite suitable anti-tank artillery. As an option.

                  Pfft ... we even hacked to death in 1942 tank guns in 85-mm caliber - too expensive a shot. Well, in the first year of the war, the country could not afford to spend 2,5 times more copper and gunpowder per shot.
  • Darkness
    Darkness 11 October 2021 08: 39
    +9
    What did the author want to say? And what else will he say!
  • north 2
    north 2 11 October 2021 08: 42
    +7
    article just in time for a holiday. Today, October 11, is the birthday of Uralvagonzavod. It was within the walls of this plant that the legends of world tank building were created - T-54/55, T-72, T-90 and its modifications. In total, more than 100 units of armored vehicles were produced. Happy holiday, tank builders of Nizhny Tagil!
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Ashes of Claes
    Ashes of Claes 11 October 2021 09: 11
    +16
    Old truth:

    There are slightly fewer tank experts than football experts.
    What circle is this?
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 11 October 2021 11: 26
      +10
      Somehow the old immediately came to mind. smile

      Petka runs into the headquarters hut:
      - Vasil Ivanovich, Bangladesh has formed!

      - You, Sing, do not scratch or touch, it will pass by itself. drinks
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 11 October 2021 09: 13
    +5
    The creation of the Red Army tank forces is a feat, a feat, accomplished from scratch and with unparalleled efforts, but a senseless feat - a huge armada of tanks did not play its role.
    Those. it turns out that the creation of the Red Army tank troops is a mistake? Wasn't it necessary to create? The article is based on "afterbirth".
    1. Ashes of Claes
      Ashes of Claes 11 October 2021 09: 48
      +3
      Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
      Those. it turns out that the creation of the Red Army tank troops is a mistake

      no, not a mistake, but senseless feat... Here the States created tank troops almost from scratch already during the war - this is a meaningful feat (according to Ivanov)
      1. Daniil Konovalenko
        Daniil Konovalenko 11 October 2021 12: 14
        +5
        Here the States created tank troops practically from scratch already during the war - this is a meaningful feat.
        And the tanks were just a sight for sore eyes, not like the Soviet ones ...
        1. Ashes of Claes
          Ashes of Claes 11 October 2021 13: 46
          +5
          Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
          And the tanks were just a sight for sore eyes, not like the Soviet ones ...

          Oh yeah ... Wipers! on the front! And pay attention to the hatch on the side of the tower - this is for making an order in a poppy-car.
          1. Daniil Konovalenko
            Daniil Konovalenko 11 October 2021 14: 39
            +5
            And pay attention to the hatch on the side of the tower - this is for making an order in a poppy-car.
            Yeah, so you drive in, wiggle the trunk and ask: Dap, Dap? smile
            1. Ashes of Claes
              Ashes of Claes 11 October 2021 15: 16
              +3
              Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
              Yeah, so you drive in, wiggle the trunk and ask: Dap, Dap?

              That's it!
          2. hohol95
            hohol95 12 October 2021 17: 24
            0
            Only that the Soviet representatives had to request "tanks from Burger King", and not vice versa ...
            But the first were the British ...
        2. Illanatol
          Illanatol 12 October 2021 13: 39
          0
          And the tanks were just a sight for sore eyes, not like the Soviet ones ...


          And there were no losses among them at all. It is not clear only why so many Shermans were riveted, although they fought in Europe for only a few months.
    2. Alex_You
      Alex_You 11 October 2021 12: 03
      +7
      As I understand it, all these pre-war projects were a mistake, these crafts were riveted by the T-26, T-28, T-35, but it was necessary to create the T-80U right away, but there were about a hundred.
      1. Daniil Konovalenko
        Daniil Konovalenko 11 October 2021 12: 04
        +7
        Along the way, yes, but it was better to start with Armata ... smile
      2. Ashes of Claes
        Ashes of Claes 11 October 2021 14: 31
        +5
        Quote: Alex_You
        As I understand it, all these pre-war projects were a mistake, these crafts were riveted by the T-26, T-28, T-35, but it was necessary to create the T-80U right away, but there were about a hundred.

        Now, if in the NKTP such a quick mind Ivanov - everything would be good. And, well, yes, he is still an expert in the navy. Well, that means, for even - a tanker, for odd - a shipbuilder. And on weekends - a sub-department of cleaning.
  • Ashes of Claes
    Ashes of Claes 11 October 2021 09: 30
    +5
    The creation of the Red Army tank troops is a feat, but a senseless feat

    Yes, there, Ivanov, cut it to the fullest - both the RKVVS and the RKVMF - the same is meaningless. Toka, they say, in vain the thorn was transferred to the GULAGs and the grubs were transferred to sharashnik engineers. And sho was built
    unparalleled efforts
    then about ... rallying with the first cocks of Barbarossa. Yes, there is where to disperse.
  • Proctologist
    Proctologist 11 October 2021 10: 22
    -8
    Thanks! An intelligible manner of presenting the material, everything is on the case, I look forward to continuing!
    The moment is right for a pause at the most interesting place! ;-)
  • Undecim
    Undecim 11 October 2021 10: 34
    +16
    Today, it’s an orgy of ignorance. So over history it is impossible to mock, after all, at least some kind of self-respect from the administration of the site should be.
    1. Zufei
      Zufei 11 October 2021 11: 03
      +4
      This is also a way of knowing. We will read all your objections and expand our knowledge about WWII and about tanks in particular. Now, whenever possible, I read about the Shermans in the CA
      Attention! You do not have permission to view hidden text.
      hard for amateurs.
    2. Ashes of Claes
      Ashes of Claes 11 October 2021 11: 19
      +9
      Quote: Undecim
      Today, it’s an orgy of ignorance. So over history it is impossible to mock, after all, at least some kind of self-respect from the administration of the site should be.

      This is because you are a polymath and a perfectionist. Nowadays, Wikipedia rule, and no administration gateways can stop the invasion of the ignorant. I am more amused by the dumb arrogance with which, while chewing on wikipedia articles, they look at the history of the regulars of ya-zen and other things. Solipsists and strained ironic subversives with their categorical opinion - yes, this is "just some kind of holiday!" (C)
      1. motorized rifle
        motorized rifle 11 October 2021 12: 25
        +10
        It looks like someone orders such sabotage-ignorant articles, and then looks to see if the readers have eaten the "senseless feat". If not, then how much was bought, like this, for example:
        Thanks! An intelligible manner of presenting the material, everything is on the case, I look forward to continuing!
        The moment is right for a pause at the most interesting place! ;-)

        Then he looks and analyzes whether it's time to start # pilibibavar or it's too early. And the second part is written based on the results of the first. Wanguyu, the second will be about "meaningful feat".
    3. Bormanxnumx
      Bormanxnumx 11 October 2021 13: 09
      +5
      Quote: Undecim
      the administration of the site should have self-respect.

      What self-respect, if the head of the "Armament" department himself is not much "more objective" writing his opuses wassat
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 11 October 2021 13: 40
    +7
    We had 28 T-503s as medium tanks. Three-turret tank, unreliable, but relatively successful.

    The T-28 was one of the most reliable tanks of the Red Army. Its "unreliability" was the result not of structural or technical flaws, but of deterioration and lack of spare parts.
    According to their technical condition, the T-28 tanks had a power reserve of up to 75 hours on average. For the most part, they required replacement of engines and, due to their technical condition, could not be used in a long operation.
    © Report on the combat activities of the 10th Panzer Division on the front against German fascism for the period from June 22 to August 1, 1941.
    By the beginning of hostilities, 27 T-28 tanks were unusable due to deterioration.
    © Documents on the database of the 5th Panzer Division.

    Alas, LKZ (like any other tank plant in the USSR) could produce only one type of tank (and spare parts for it). And when the KV was put into production, the plant even had to send off fifty T-28s that had arrived for repair and modernization, because there was simply nothing to change worn-out parts and assemblies. Yes, and for the plan for HF they were asked much more stringently than for repairs - it was not in vain that in order to fulfill the plan for the release of heavy weights, Zaltsman went to forgery and falsification of documents.
  • Illanatol
    Illanatol 11 October 2021 13: 51
    +1
    And the wheeled-caterpillar propulsion system is not the best solution, as well as any attempt to improve some characteristics at the expense of others.


    At one time, there was simply no alternative to him. The service life of the track links was small, they wore out quickly, despite the fact that they were difficult to manufacture. So it was more rational for light tanks to walk on a wheeled track, and to wear tracks only when necessary.
    Wear-resistant steel containing manganese was used only shortly before the start of the war.
    Tanks were primarily seen as a way to enhance the firepower of infantry formations, given the scarcity of the latter. The USSR was not as militarized as many imagine; in the early 30s, the Red Army was comparable in size to the Polish army.
    The fact that a lot of tanks were produced does not mean that there were so many of them in the troops. The service life of military equipment was not long, so by the beginning of the war, a hefty part of this armada had already turned into just scrap metal.
    1. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 11 October 2021 14: 45
      +3
      so by the beginning of the war, a large part of this armada had already turned into just scrap metal.
      And this metal is passed off as combat units. Here, they say, how many tanks ... there were.
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 11 October 2021 15: 27
      +2
      Quote: Illanatol
      The service life of military equipment was not long, so by the beginning of the war, a hefty part of this armada had already turned into just scrap metal.

      And for this I must say thanks to the acute reluctance of the Red Army of the 30s to write off the BTT. As a result, the equipment often continued to be listed in the army, not only after obsolescence, but even after its physical disappearance: the industry produced it at one time, but in the units it is not. A quarter (!) Of the T-27s produced in 1941 ended up in "nets".
      ... comparing the availability of combat vehicles with the number of those produced by industrial factories, the following discrepancies were revealed:

      Missing:
      "BT-7" - 96 vehicles
      "BT-2" - 34 vehicles
      "BT-5" - 46 vehicles
      "T-26" - 103 vehicles
      "T-38" - 193 vehicles
      "T-37" - 211 vehicles
      "T-27" - 780 vehicles
      "BA-10" - 94 vehicles
      "BA-6" - 54 vehicles
      FAI - 234 cars ...

      The raised archival material from 1929 on the registration, special dispatch and write-off of combat vehicles did not give a significant change in reducing the shortage, since the write-off of combat vehicles was not carried out until 1936.
      The number of decommissioned machines, for example, "T-27" - 26 pieces, is clearly not true, since the production of these machines began in 1931 and in 10 years this figure should undoubtedly be much higher ...
      © Ulanov / Shein
  • zenion
    zenion 11 October 2021 20: 09
    -1
    A cousin was the commander of a special tank unit regiment with the rank of major. When they went into the first battle and won a strong victory at the entrance to Bessarabia, they received the order and the rank of lieutenant colonel. They said that the tanks were special, made in small numbers and very expensive. German guns and tank guns did not penetrate them, as if the steel was slippery. You could only hear it, when the shell hit, it struck the armor. In Romania they were stopped. All tanks were loaded onto railway platforms and sent back to the USSR. They brought in other tanks and they already entered Austria with them. Something was for the tanks, they did not know and did not ask, but the armor was strong and amazing.
  • Wildcat
    Wildcat 11 October 2021 21: 29
    +1
    hi
    Well, "life-giving per clickbait, very useful for the site"!
    drinks

    With all my heart I would like to congratulate the author, he has his own reader, because the article "Armor is strong and tanks are fast" is perfectly supplemented: "the armor was strong and amazing." And the tankers "They were in favor of the tanks, they did not know and did not ask."


    "zenion (zinovy)
    Today, 20: 09
    0
    A cousin was the commander of a special tank unit regiment with the rank of major. When they went into the first battle and won a strong victory at the entrance to Bessarabia, they received the order and the rank of lieutenant colonel. They said that the tanks were special, made in small numbers and very expensive. German guns and tank guns did not penetrate them, as if the steel was slippery. You could only hear it, when the shell hit, it struck the armor. In Romania they were stopped. All tanks were loaded onto railway platforms and sent back to the USSR. They brought in other tanks and they already entered Austria with them. Something was for the tanks, they did not know and did not ask, but the armor was strong and amazing. "

    Also, with tears of joy in my eyes, I want to note that the article, which does not offer "all firearms that are less than 0,7 liters in volume, it is better to ban", cannot but rejoice!
    Lepota ...
    1. zenion
      zenion 14 October 2021 15: 25
      0
      You have seen Spanish screwdrivers with blue handles. Amazing screwdrivers, but very expensive. Neither twist nor break. Added alloying elements to the metal, which would be great for tanks, but very expensive and need special melting. But there really were additives for steel, it is impossible to break through and it is very difficult to do. At least do the welding of the joints. Very refractory and at the same time very reminiscent of Damascus steel. At the VIZ plant, a sample of such steel was smelted. We tried to punch and nothing happened. My brother did not say how many such tanks there were, but everything remained a secret. Apparently not so much and they passed an excellent test.
      1. Wildcat
        Wildcat 15 October 2021 12: 34
        0
        No, I haven't come across such amazing screwdrivers.
        I really hope that the author of the article will join our conversation, perhaps he has something to say on the topic.
  • uralant
    uralant 12 October 2021 05: 09
    0
    So? The mediocre marshal turned out to be the same and the people's commissar of defense? Putin has Rogozin, Stalin has Tukhachevsky, if we draw parallels with Khrushchev. Not only were they not repressed, they were also convicted of the cause!