Military Review

The fall of the Chinese Song Empire

140

Miniature of the XIV century. State Library of Prussian Culture. Berlin. FRG


Song just before the conquest


As is often the case before the death of many countries, they were torn apart by various contradictions. In 1265, the emperor Li-Tsung died, he did not leave an heir, all the children from the concubines died in infancy, and the wives had no children. Under pressure from high officials, he adopted his nephew Zhao Qi (1240-1274), but he was of dubious origin, his mother was a concubine. Around him, a struggle between groups began - some supported the boy, others demanded his overthrow. Zaixiang (Chancellor), about whom we wrote in the previous article, Jia Sidao enjoyed full confidence and dictatorial powers under him. Despite opposition, Zhao Qi was crowned in 1264 and named Du Zong.

The fall of the Chinese Song Empire
Brocade robe "pao". The era of the Song. China

He was not a bad ruler, but the numerous natural disasters that hit the country, exacerbated by corruption, exorbitant taxes and instability caused by the threat from the north, did not allow him to be considered a legitimate ruler. Since in the society of this period, legitimacy was rigidly tied to divine grace, which the ruler was obliged to have and to transfer it to the country and people. And his failures were especially obvious against the backdrop of the new empire Yuan created in the north and its God-chosen ruler.

Du Zong also died suddenly in the midst of the crisis and war in 1274, and the burden of power fell on Jia Sidao and Empress Xie Daoqing, who became regents with his young son.

Many historians believe that the Song government did not take advantage of the long period when no one threatened the state. Actually this is not true. Fortifications were constantly erected, the defense of cities was strengthened, local authorities were preparing food supplies. The fortress wall of the capital was rebuilt and fortified. Trees were planted in places of possible landings, along the banks of rivers. The pay for the military was increased, they were attracted by benefits. In the borderlands, local commanders tried to return the captured fortifications in order to provide more advantageous positions in the event of an invasion. And Khubilai, busy with the struggle for power, turned a blind eye to it.

Times of "official pacifism" of the XI century. played a negative role in stories empire, and the absence for a long time of powerful opponents did not contribute to the training of troops.


Calm and contemplation reigned in the works of Chinese artists on the eve of terrible upheavals. Artist Ma Lin. End of XII - beginning of XIII centuries "In peace I listen to the pines singing"

The predominance of an emphasis on defensive tactics in military theoretical treatises also did not contribute to victory, and Song did not have enough horses to carry out active operations. And not only them.

Based on today's understanding, we can say that huge defense funds, which, of course, were corrected by corruption, were used incorrectly. But at that time, the creation of powerful fortifications was considered the most adequate way of defense. Moreover, there was the experience of the next fight with the Jin empire. Again, the empire had great potential, but none of this helped it.

The most important reason was the discord in the empire associated with the feeling of general "injustice". In the end, the high payments to the soldiers did not help in any way. Why? More on this below.


The walls of Pingyao city (XIV century) of Shanxi province give an idea of ​​the fortifications of the Sung period

What about Mongolia?


Returning to the Horde, on May 5, 1260, Khubilai in Kaiping proclaimed himself the Great Khan, and a four-year struggle for power began. The Mongol nomadic empire disintegrated, and Kublai inherited Mongolia and northern China. In 1271, Khubilai named his state, taking a phrase from the "Book of Changes" - Da Yuan - Great Yuan. First, in 1260, he moved the capital to Kaiping (Shandu), and in 1264 - to Yanjing (Beijing). The city was named Khanbalik or Dai-du.

The main foreign policy goal of Khubilai, who became Emperor Yuan Shizu, was the capture of Song.

At the same time, the creation of a "universal" empire attracted more and more Chinese, Khubilai, Jurchens, and others to the service of Kublai. They saw in him a symbol of the imperial legitimate power, drawing it from the history of China. His victories, against the backdrop of the calamities associated with the rule of the Sung emperors, only emphasized his chosen God in the eyes of the population of all the lands of China.

It is not for nothing that, as we have already written more than once, the armies that have conquered the Golden, and then the Southern Song since the 30s, in the overwhelming majority did not consist of Mongols.

So, Khubilai presented an invoice to the empire under the Treaty signed in 1259, but no one knew anything about it, and accordingly, they were not going to fulfill it. A pompous official posing as an outstanding commander, Jia Sidao tried not to let this information reach the emperor, and he himself did nothing, sat in his luxurious country palace with his concubines and arranged "battles" between crickets. What the whole capital knew about.

During the deadly threat, the chancellor of the state turned out to be a man who wanted to rule, destroying opponents by intrigue and force, but completely incapable of making decisions and being responsible for them: to rule does not mean to be able to govern.

Khubilai tried not to show violence against the Song subjects, with a few exceptions caused by the logic of war. And this policy played a role. Dissatisfied with the policy of the usurper Jia Sidao, and simply dissatisfied with the masses went over to the side of the Mongols, there were many soldiers among them. The Chinese, as specialists, were especially appreciated by the Mongols, therefore favorable conditions were created for defectors, and the Mongols specially made raids to capture soldiers in order to use them in a war against their own. In the end, the conquest of the Song became a war of some Chinese and other peoples of China, led by the Mongols, against other Chinese. This was especially important in the specific climatic conditions of China, which were difficult for the Mongols to endure.

Hike south


In 1267, the multinational army of the Mongols began a campaign, according to sources - there were 30 tumens. The army was even allocated by the Golden Horde, which was already independent and its khans did not participate in the all-Mongol kurultays. Among the army were large units of Kipchaks, North Caucasian aces and even Russians.

Subedei's grandson, Aju raided the Hubei province and took 50 thousand prisoners and 5 thousand head of cattle. The Chinese army, pursuing Aju, did not recapture the full. At the same time, Liu Zheng, the “general” deserter from Song, proposed to Kublai a clear plan for conquering the Song Empire, which was accepted. The first target, as in the previous time, was the cities of Si-an-fu (Xiangyang) and Fan-cheng (Fancheng) in Hubei province. They were besieged by Aju and Liu Zheng.

And these powerful cities have repeatedly met invasions from the north. Perfectly prepared for a siege, having a lot of siege engines, receiving supplies by water, they became a real powerful obstacle in the path of the Mongol army. Moreover, they covered the passages to the Yangtze basin.

The Mongols completely blocked the cities, but there was enough food in them, in addition to everything, convoys with supplies periodically broke through the river. The besiegers were constantly in need of reinforcements. Khubilai even, according to Rashid ad-Din, urgently freed 20 thousand captured soldiers of the Golden Empire, appointed commanders from them and sent them to the front. It got to the point that Khubilai had to ask Khan Hulag to send his siege professionals.

These were the Muslims Ismail and Ala-ad-Din, who assessed the situation and installed stone throwers, which played an important role in the fall of Fancheng in 1273. The commander of the defense Fan Tien-shun hanged himself, and his assistant Niu Fu fought to the last and threw himself into the fire ... And Xianyang, who was under siege for almost five years, after a demonstration by Ismail and Ala ad-Din, surrendered to the mercy of the victors. The first part of the plan cost the Mongols tremendous effort, but was carried out, and in the Song there was no understanding of the impending mortal threat.

The road to the Yangtze Basin was clear, but from the end of 1274 to the beginning of 1275 there were fierce battles on the border. The troops under the command of Bayan, the son of Kokchu, moved from Ezhou (north of Anhui province) to the capital of the empire, Lin'an (Zhejiang province). The offensive went along the Yangtze River, and flotilla, on which the Chinese were sailors.

And the commander Bolohuang was supposed to advance in eastern China against Yangzhou.


Battle ship. The Song Empire. Encyclopedia "Wu Jing Zongyao". Later image

All that Jia Sidao could oppose was to send ambassadors to Bayan, but he rejected the negotiations. The lands on which the troops were marching passed into Yuan citizenship. On the territory of the modern province of Anhui, near the city of Wuhu, the battle of Dingjiazhou took place on March 17, 1275.

The Empire withdrew a fleet of 2500 battleships from Warlord Xia Gui. The field army consisted of 130 thousand soldiers, among whom were the best, selected units.

The vanguard of 70 thousand soldiers was commanded by Jia Sidao, and all other units were commanded by Sun Hucheng. In this battle, stone throwers were massively used, but Bayan's catapults were more effective. The first to falter and run were the soldiers of Xia Gui, dragging the entire army to flight, which the Mongols pursued and beat for 75 km. Chancellor Jia Sidao and Sun Hucheng fled in the front ranks, leaving the battlefield in a boat.

The enemy captured the entire fleet, many weapons, maps, seals of the Song state.

Demands for the execution of Jia Sidao were insistently sounded in the capital, but he was sent into exile, confiscating his estates and wealth. On the way to exile, the chancellor was killed, having smashed his head.

But suddenly a new miracle happened - the heat wore out the northern warriors and their main parts. The Mongols, leaving many of the conquered cities, went north. These were the cities of Yangzhou, Changzhou, present-day. Suzhou, southern Zhaozhou. Bayan went to Beijing for new instructions. But the Song government did not really take advantage of the situation. It issued contradictory decrees, on the one hand, declaring a general amnesty for defectors and deserters, on the other hand, decrees to punish deserters. And the troops and cities passed to the Mongols, now 15-year-olds and old people were drafted into the army.

And again about the Mongols: how could they?


I would like to highlight one important point. Many readers persistently ask how the small population of the united Mongolia could conquer the multimillion countries.

Without taking into account the most important factors in the development of society, the answer to this question will always be open, and the questioners will remain in the dark. The first factor is the different structures of society in relation to the army and the war. The Mongols of this time are an army-people in the transition stage, very conditionally, from a tribal organization to a territorial community. Such a society is characterized by expansion, especially if it has an organic military organization.

At the same time, all their opponents, agricultural or even more semi-agricultural, "nomadic" empires were at different stages, again very conditionally, of the territorial-neighboring community. And what was the structure of government, early or developed chiefdom, "world-system", did not really matter. It didn’t matter that many of them had a long history behind them. Having a glorious history does not negate military defeat in our time. The craft of war is not transmitted "genetically", but depends on the state of society at the moment.

Thus, in a nomadic society, everyone is at war, but in an agricultural society, at a specified stage of development, especially if the division of labor goes forward, only a certain part. The command apparatus in Song was larger than the entire Mongol army, about 400 thousand people.

By the beginning of the conquests, the Mongols had 150-200 thousand soldiers. Jin had an army significantly exceeding these forces, but as I wrote, these troops were dispersed, and the Mongols during the war with Jin alone increased their forces by ≈ 60 thousand soldiers at the expense of ethnic groups, enemies of the Jurchens. At the same time, the Uighur tribes (≈ 20 thousand) became their allies. The army recruited in Jin took part in the march to the west. It was the reluctance of Emperor Xi Xia to fulfill his promise - to be the right wing in the Mongol campaigns to the west, that infuriated Genghis Khan, whose forces he needed so much. The Mongols did the same in the west. Before the conquest of Central Asia, they attracted about 30-40 thousand soldiers to their side. At the same time, they continued to conquer Jin with the forces of 13 thousand Mongols and 60 thousand local contingents. When the Song was conquered, both the contingents of neighboring ethnic groups went over to the Mongol side, the mani fielded 10 thousand, and the Chinese themselves.

If at the beginning of the conquests Chinggis Khan had 150-200 thousand, then at the end of the century there were about 300-350 thousand soldiers.

And this is all without taking into account the hashar, consumable forces collected from prisoners and used as consumables in the forefront of the attack both in the field and during the siege of fortresses. [Kradin N.N., Skrynnikova T. D., Khrapachevsky R. P.]

With the ability of the Mongols to concentrate forces, their army pierced any obstacles.

At the same time, sedentary agricultural countries, often possessing large resources, including human resources, could not concentrate forces and mobilize resources. Possessing a more complex system of social management, they did not have such a managerial will and thirst for victory.

Do not forget that the Mongols have always and in any way achieved a numerical advantage over the enemy, which I wrote about more than once in previous articles on VO.

Over the Yangtze


And the Mongol troops went to the operational line, to the Yangtze River, crossing which opened the way to the richest regions and to the capital.

The new commander, who was supposed to oppose the Mongols, was appointed Zhang Shijie, who successfully fought against the nomads. He was faced with the task of holding the city of Yangzhou, which covered the access to the river. Yangtze. In 1275, he organized a barrier for the passage of enemy troops at Zaoshan, in the rear at Yangzhou. It consisted of ground forces and a navy on the Yangtze River, whose ships were tied in chains. The Sino-Mongol forces struck at Zhang Shizeng, small maneuverable ships entered the battle on the river, and the cavalry attacked the Chinese infantry. As a result, Song lost 60 thousand killed and as many captured, as 700 ships were taken as trophies, on which it was possible to move not only along rivers, but also along the sea. The road to Nanjing was clear, and Yangzhou, who remained in the rear, did not pose a significant threat. At this time, Wen Tiansang, a poet, scientist and commander, persuaded Empress Xie Daoqing with the little emperor to flee to the islands in order to have more maneuver, since at that time everything was reduced exclusively to the defense of the directions to the capital, where the emperor was located.

The Sung troops decided to organize the next line of defense in Pingjiangfu and in the area of ​​Lake Taifu. The famous Wen Tiansang was appointed commander, who hired 10 thousand soldiers with his own money.

Khubilai, in consultation with Bayan, decided to walk in a straight line to the capital Sun, past the Great Chinese Canal. This canal, which connected the Yellow He and the Yangtze, still exists today, and its construction was carried out for many centuries and was completed in the XNUMXth century.


Great Chinese Channel. Modern look

Bayan at this time took, after a long siege, Changzhou. In order to teach a lesson to the entire Song, the city's inhabitants were massacred. On the other hand, the commander Khasan, who participated in the assault on Tanzhou, stopped the bloodshed by saying that all the prisoners would be subjects of the khan, for which he received encouragement from Kublai.

At the same time, Wen Tiansang was recalled to Lingyang. And his army, left without a commander, surrendered all the lands south of Changzhou, around Lake Taifu.

Panic and flight began in the capital, prominent officials fled, and ministers Wang Yue and Chen Yizhong decided to negotiate with the Mongols in order to negotiate acceptable terms for the dynasty to surrender. The negotiations were entrusted to Wen Tiansan, who behaved extremely arrogantly with the Mongols. It was at the end of 1275. They were going on for a very long time, this bothered Bayan, who at the beginning of 1276 surrounded Lingyan. Finally, Chen Yizhong agreed to surrender. Wen Tiansang remained hostage to the nomads. While Bayan was coordinating the process of surrender with Khubilai, the empress fled from the capital with the little princes, the brothers of Emperor Song. In March 1276, Bayan solemnly entered Lingyan. The 30th garrison surrendered. The little emperor Zhao Xian, deposed before Ingo-gong, was sent to Beijing. With him was his own grandfather Zhao Yuzhuyu, whom Khubilai had appointed Yuan Minister of Agriculture and awarded the magnificent Chinese title that was used in the new empire. And when Zhao Xian was 12 years old, Khubilai gave him a huge amount of money and sent him to a monastery in Tibet, where he became the abbot of the monastery.

The Mongols took out the relatives of the imperial house, as well as the harem, many of whose inhabitants committed suicide on the way and in Beijing, and the palace eunuchs.

Meanwhile, in Fuzhou, on the shores of the Taiwan Strait, a new emperor, 8-year-old Zhao Shi, was elected. Wen Tiansang, who was not officially included in the government, also arrived here. The minister of the new government and the veteran commander Li Tingzhi, having collected 40 troops, even tried to repulse the little emperor Zhao Xian on his way to Beijing. Self-defense units were organized everywhere, and many cities were out of the control of the Mongols.


Mongol and Han warrior of the XIII century. Modern renovation. Ed. Osprey

The new government appealed to the patriotic feelings of the population. In the summer of 1276, Wen Tiansang liberated the lands east and north of Fuzhou. Guangzhou, captured back in the 50s, was liberated. But at this time, after a year of resistance, Yangzhou fell, who remained in the rear of the Mongols, and Li Tingzhi, who was going to help the city, was defeated. While attempting suicide, he was captured and executed. The Chinese people honor his memory as a hero.

And the Mongols at the end of 1276 attacked Fuzhou, the little emperor and his retinue went to sea on ships. There was a bloody struggle for the city of Guangzhou, the city changed hands five times, but the forces of the defenders were undermined by diseases, and it fell. The field army was also destroyed by the Mongols. And the emperor was shipwrecked, caught a cold and died. His younger brother became the emperor.

Wen Tiansang continued to fight, but was defeated near Haifeng, was captured and taken to Beijing. They carried him bound on a ship and showed the disobedient, forcing them to surrender.

And in the spring of 1279 the Mongolian fleet approached the island of Yayshan, here it defeated the Song flotilla, the last seven-year-old emperor of the Song Empire of the Han drowned in the sea. So, under the hooves of the nomadic cavalry, the Song Han empire fell, resisting the conquest for 40 years, in its place the Mongols created their Yuan empire, but about it in the next article.

And the captive commander and poet Wen Tiansang wrote:

The beach will tell you about the fear
Bay - about misfortune
Everyone in this world dies
Leaving only blazing hearts to glow

To be continued ...

Sources and literature:
Secret legend. Mongolian chronicle of 1240 titled Mongol-un niruca tobciyan. M., 1941.
Rashid ad-Din. Collection of chronicles. Volume I. Book 2. M., 1952.
"Hei da shi lue": a source on the history of the Mongols in the 2016th century. / otv. ed. A.Sh. Kadyrbaev M., 1993. History of the East. T. II. M., XNUMX.
Kradin N.N., Skrynnikova T. D. Empire of Chinggis Khan M., 2006.
Mongolica: to the 750th anniversary of the "Secret Tale". Ed. Anikeeva S.M. M., 1993.
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  1. Korsar4
    Korsar4 13 October 2021 05: 57
    +13
    5 years of the siege of the city is a lot. How intensely did they fight?
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 13 October 2021 08: 37
      +11
      5 years of the siege of the city is a lot.
      The crusaders trampled under Akka for 2 years.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 13 October 2021 16: 06
        +6
        Small siege of Troy. But if the history of returns began with the capture of Troy, then they just dispersed.
    2. Edward Vashchenko
      13 October 2021 11: 58
      +11
      Sergey,
      Good afternoon,
      We do not have detailed descriptions, but according to some, it can be judged, withdrawals, maneuvers, attempts by external armies to unblock, kon-attack and destruction of siege weapons. Plus the climate, the Mongols, since the war in Xi Xia, tried to skip the very hot months, weaken the siege, wait out in the north. Without taking them further, it was difficult to control communications, very strong garrisons in the rear.
      Yours faithfully,
      Edward
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 13 October 2021 16: 08
        +4
        Edward, associations arise with our princely strife.
        Sow - Grow - Collect: a peaceful life. And how to collect it is possible to take up civil strife.
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 October 2021 21: 25
        +1
        Thank you Edward! Better later than never!!!
        Regards, Vlad!
  2. ee2100
    ee2100 13 October 2021 05: 58
    +10
    I am looking forward to the story about the Jochi ulus.
  3. Crowe
    Crowe 13 October 2021 06: 15
    +13
    Han Ximen (1242-1259) 韓希孟 Song Dynasty
    Chinese poet: The only poem she is believed to have written before her death is associated with the fall of the Southern Song under the blows of Mongol forces.
    A poem and a short biography of Han Ximen are found in Song-shi and in the Anthology of Poetry of the Yuan Era. The image of Han Ximen has been repeatedly used in literature as a national patriotic symbol. For patriarchal China, this was an outstanding image, revealing in a young woman not only a commitment to family duty and creative talent, but also a certain political consciousness.
    It is believed that Han Ximen belonged to the Han Qi clan, the first minister of the Northern Song, and was distinguished by her poetic talent. In 1259, during the next campaign of the Mongols to the lands of Southern Song, she was 18 years old, and she was the widow of a South Song scientist. The Mongols captured her in Balin (now Yueyang), and drove her from her native places to the north along with other captives. However, Han Ximen deceived the guard's vigilance and drowned herself, throwing herself into the Yangtze River. When her body surfaced three days later, a poem was found in a secret pocket in the belt of her skirt that family honor is more precious than life, beginning with the lines "My body is a sacrificial vessel in the temple of the ancestors."
    1. Crowe
      Crowe 13 October 2021 06: 18
      +14
      练 裙带 中 诗 A poem found in a silk apron ("I am from a noble family ..."
      我 质 本 瑚 琏 , 宗庙 供 蘋 蘩。
      一朝 婴 祸 难 , 失身 戎马 间。
      宁 当 血刃 死 , 不 作 衽 席 完。
      汉 上 有 王猛 , 江南 无 谢 安。
      长号 赴 洪水 , 激烈 摧 心肝。
      Translation: Basmanov M.I.
      I am from a noble family,
      That I have tasted the mercy of the throne,
      I honor the memory of ancestors and often
      I visit their temple ...

      To my country now
      Troubles fell in an abundance:
      Enemy horses trample her,
      The barbarian scoffs and boor.

      Better with a bloody sword
      Let yourself be beheaded
      Than serve strangers
      Bend your backs in front of them! ..

      Wang Meng could once
      To glorify the Han Dynasty,
      Ile not found Se Anya
      Anywhere in Jiangnan!

      Indignant, crying, shedding tears,
      The chest is torn from cruel torment.
      1. depressant
        depressant 13 October 2021 15: 43
        +13
        What sad poems.
        And the article inspired sadness, and autumn, which removed the leaves.
        1. Esoteric
          Esoteric 13 October 2021 21: 29
          +5
          Sneak time with exquisite workmanship
          A magical feast for the eyes.
          And the same time in a roundabout
          Carries away everything that made us happy.

          Hours and days of unrestrained flow
          Leads the summer into the dusk of winter days
          Where there is no foliage, the sap is frozen in the trees,
          The earth is dead and the white cloak is on it.

          And only the scent of blooming roses -
          Flying prisoner locked in glass -
          Reminds in cold and frost
          That summer was on earth.

          Flowers have lost their former shine,
          But they retained the soul of beauty.


          Shakespeare. Translated by Marshak.
          1. depressant
            depressant 13 October 2021 21: 46
            +3
            A lovely sonnet!
            No one translated Shakespeare better than Marshak.
            Thank you! love )))
  4. parusnik
    parusnik 13 October 2021 06: 16
    +15
    In fact, the Mongols, under their careful guidance, by the hands of the Chinese, united China.
    1. Crowe
      Crowe 13 October 2021 06: 35
      +16
      "The greatest legacy that the Mongol Empire left to the Chinese is the Chinese people themselves."
      Hidehiro Okada (岡 田英弘) January 24, 1931 - May 25, 2017 Japanese orientalist historian
      1. Edward Vashchenko
        13 October 2021 06: 57
        +16
        Good morning,
        beautifully said, but not entirely true, can we also say that the Horde left Russia - the Russian people? Of course not. And the fact. that ethnic groups are formed in the process of fighting an external enemy, for sure.
        hi
        1. ee2100
          ee2100 13 October 2021 07: 38
          +4
          Good morning!
          Description - description, but to understand the whole process, you did not answer, as I think, the main question, what maintained the discipline and morale of practically the national team of Central, Central Asia and the Far East?
          Without an answer to this question, it all looks like a fairy tale or, at worst, an epic.
          Some modern historians agreed that non-indigenous warriors, so to speak, were used as a penal battalion, and the article also refers to the opinion of some historians that the mobilized warriors of the conquered lands were used as consumables, even without taking into account the hashar.
          The question arises: "And this is in the army, where the Mongols are essentially in the minority?"
          I do not believe!
          1. Edward Vashchenko
            13 October 2021 12: 18
            +5
            Good afternoon, Alexander,
            You write:
            But to understand the whole process, you did not answer, as I think, the main question, what maintained the discipline and morale of practically the national team of Central, Central Asia and the Far East?

            But I wrote about this in the article "The nomadic empire of the Mongols. How and why"
            Yours faithfully,
            Edward
            1. ee2100
              ee2100 13 October 2021 13: 12
              +1
              I disagree with your statement that:
              "It was in relation to these non-Mongolian troops that the most severe methods of control and suppression of violations of military discipline were applied" (c)
              In my opinion, the strength of the Mongols lay in the fact that all the soldiers who came under their rule were equal in rights with the indigenous people. And the spread of the laws-concepts of Yasa concerned them as well.
              Any warrior will fight well if he is treated fairly and knows that he will receive a worthy reward in the end.
              1. Edward Vashchenko
                13 October 2021 15: 32
                +8
                Dear Alexander,
                Of course, you can disagree with me, but I do not personally express my opinion, we are talking about historiography.
                You are a little ahead of me with your question-opinion, I will write about the hierarchy in the new Mongol empire in the next article.
                But the essence was simple, no one was equal to the Mongols. It was the same in the army. Even the Uighurs, who were the first to come to Chinggis Khan as allies, were not equal to the Mongols: not according to legislation, not in fact. Of course, we also know the poor Mongols of the Yuan era, but that's a different story.
                The hierarchy was strictly observed.
                The Chinese "generals" - deserters commanded exclusively Chinese troops in the Mongol army, they could not command the Mongols. In war, anything can happen, the sources do not reflect this, perhaps someone non-Mongolian could command a tactical group, for example, during the siege of a city, but no more.
                All this "international" horde was clearly distributed among tribes and peoples, under the leadership and control of the indigenous Mongols (or Mongolian ethnic groups), and it was to her that, first of all, the harsh military legislation was applied.
                hi
                1. ee2100
                  ee2100 13 October 2021 15: 34
                  +3
                  I wanted to "push" more on justice! Without her, everything will fall apart hi
                  1. Edward Vashchenko
                    13 October 2021 15: 44
                    +10
                    But my opinion, if you will, everything was tough, like in a pack or a gang. There is a case when a Chinese man expresses something at a military council, the Mongols were indignant, speaking in Goblin's language, that he does not climb to rank, and Khubilai, like, the kid is talking, though not by rank, but let's listen)
                    hi
                    1. ee2100
                      ee2100 13 October 2021 17: 19
                      +2
                      If an ordinary soldier does not receive justice, then soon they will all scatter. I mean it. On the Supreme Council, this is different, there still has a place to be rank.
                      1. Edward Vashchenko
                        13 October 2021 18: 10
                        +6
                        If an ordinary soldier does not receive justice, then soon they will all scatter.

                        Then I decimate non-escaped relatives from a tribe or village laughing
                        And justice consisted in robbery, but the discipline was iron, for every sneeze - death, but after victory, rob, rape and enslave - these are the incentives
                        hi
                2. Klio2
                  Klio2 13 October 2021 18: 42
                  +5
                  "no one was equal to the Mongols" in Izyumsky's book "Khan's label" there is a scene when Ivan Kalita in an eagle quarreled with the Mongols. Some Murza unconditionally took the side of Ivan Kalita. Perhaps this is another thing: then, during the time of Khan Uzbek, did they drink alcohol?
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 13 October 2021 20: 39
                    +3
                    Did Ivan Kalita share his fees with Murza? Or is it behind the scenes?
          2. Klio2
            Klio2 13 October 2021 18: 28
            +5
            “what maintained discipline and fighting spirit” even at school I read that for the cowardice of one, ten people were executed. There were few people who wanted to get into the top nine of those executed, which means that the issue of discipline is understood.
            The desire to profit is a good incentive.
            Eduard, I read somewhere that the Mongols appreciated furs and food, and they were indifferent to gold or pearls. This is true?
            1. Edward Vashchenko
              13 October 2021 19: 50
              +6
              Good evening,
              The Mongols appreciated furs and food, and they were indifferent to gold or pearls.

              Of course not, the next article will be a story about paper money and the confiscation of metallic money by the Mongols in China.
              The Mongols always drank, first kumis, then wine, having recognized it in China. not all of them, of course, but some princes even died of drunkenness.
              Yours faithfully,
              hi
              1. Klio2
                Klio2 13 October 2021 20: 00
                +2
                Thanks. I'll read it. Astra sometimes let me read your work. They seemed interesting to me, but at times controversial.
                Astra was afraid that I could offend you with my comment, and this would hit her
                1. Astra wild2
                  Astra wild2 13 October 2021 20: 14
                  +1
                  Piggy and Yabid!
                  1. vladcub
                    vladcub 13 October 2021 20: 36
                    +7
                    Quote: Astra wild2
                    Piggy and Yabid!

                    A good example of "female friendship"
                    1. Phil77
                      Phil77 14 October 2021 06: 43
                      +2
                      “God loves the trinity.” Looking forward to the third? laughing
                      1. vladcub
                        vladcub 14 October 2021 07: 46
                        +2
                        Tady will definitely start a cat showdown.
                        Have you seen how cats start before a fight? They first fight, and then how they fight. Only separate them with water.
                        So our ladies: first, their teeth bare, and then they will start a fight
                      2. Phil77
                        Phil77 14 October 2021 08: 10
                        +3
                        Where does the head physician look? He does not follow the medical staff at all. laughing
                      3. Astra wild2
                        Astra wild2 14 October 2021 08: 57
                        +2
                        You are not. You will put things in order. Joke. We have a real anarchy: the former was removed. "The crown" ate: he strictly forbade reporting sick and dead. There were well-wishers who sewed the "policy". And .... The relationship with the head of the administration did not save, now the IO
                  2. The comment was deleted.
                2. Astra wild2
                  Astra wild2 14 October 2021 08: 36
                  +2
                  Yes, we are fighting, I counted and I count, Katka the pig. But if I fall, she will give me a hand. It says that it is not spoiled, and you can swear that your colleague at work or on the site will do this?
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 14 October 2021 08: 51
                    +2
                    This is extremely interesting! You already keep us informed. laughing
                  2. Klio2
                    Klio2 14 October 2021 11: 06
                    0
                    Astra calls me Yabidah, but herself, what is she doing?
  • vladcub
    vladcub 13 October 2021 20: 34
    +5
    Lyosh, good evening. You're right: the Mongols "gave birth" to today's China.
    They do it very interestingly: all the golden and other kingdoms, borrowing everything useful from their predecessors, and the Mongols generalized everything and added their own. As a result: the state is based on a centuries-old culture, and our culture was edited and adapted to the course of the party.
    In 1956 sycophants found in some fairy tale an analogy with "overcoming the personality cult" of course the author made a career. And they printed what resembles, at least sideways, the speeches of Tsar Nikita
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 13 October 2021 07: 57
    +9
    Nice to read, everything is clearly explained.
    Among the army were large units of the Kipchaks, North Caucasian aces and even Russians.
    I have repeatedly met that Russian soldiers were among the warriors of Khubilai. And where are they from? From which principality or principalities? Where is it noted? Or maybe this is a bike, launched in the monograph of a scientific authority, without reference, and it has been walking in science for a long time? Yes, I first met at Chivilikhin, in his book Memory.
    1. Engineer
      Engineer 13 October 2021 11: 48
      +12
      As far as I can tell, the information about the Russian contingent in China goes back to one source
      The Rebellion of the Persian Garrison in Ch'iian-chou (AD 1357-1366)
      Chang Hsing-lang 1938

      The author relies either on Yuan-shi or on some other source
    2. Edward Vashchenko
      13 October 2021 11: 51
      +10
      Greetings Daniel,
      Among the units of the guard in Dadu (Beijing) "Yuan Shi" reports about the Russian guards detachment under 1330, Marco Polo mentions a Russian settlement. There is very little information, I agree, there is a lot of historiography. Since among the guards there were also those peoples who were close to the Russians - the Ases and Polovtsians, who reliably fought against Sun, this gave the right to say that the Russians also fought there. Otherwise, where would the Russian guards unit come from?
      This is described in more detail in the article: V.L. BRONNIKOV Russian guard of the Chinese emperors.
      Yours faithfully,
      Edward
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 13 October 2021 11: 57
        +8
        And the Nestorians who lived until the middle of the XIV century. in the Balkhash region, what ethnic group did you belong to?
        1. Engineer
          Engineer 13 October 2021 12: 08
          +7
          Kara-Kitai? Most likely Mongol tribes
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 13 October 2021 12: 19
            +6
            I only know that Nestorianism was brought to this region by refugees from Byzantium. I came across this fact when I was interested in the history of the plague pandemic
          2. Edward Vashchenko
            13 October 2021 21: 21
            +1
            Denis,
            welcome
            kara-kitai, these are black kidans, I wrote about them in an article about the Liao Iron Empire
            1. Engineer
              Engineer 14 October 2021 11: 33
              +1
              Good afternoon,
              I know. Therefore, he called them Mongols. The Khitan in the Chinese tradition are related to the Xianbi Mongols.
              The main candidates for "Christians at Balkhash" are Kara-Kitai. Although Balkhash is at the very periphery of their territory. The Kereites (also Nestorians) are noticeably to the east - they are somewhere on the Baikal meridian.
              Although "Christians at Balkhash" may be a tribe whose name has been lost to history.
        2. Edward Vashchenko
          13 October 2021 12: 15
          +6
          Anton,
          You know, of course, that the Mongols, the Wan Khan (Unekan) creites and the Turks were also Nestorians; in Balkhash, most likely the Turks.
          hi
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 13 October 2021 12: 30
            +6
            You surely know
            Very few, Edward.
            I'm more about the European Middle Ages. For example, lately I have been intensely interested in the finances of the Hundred Years War.
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 13 October 2021 13: 27
              +5
              For example, lately I have been intensely interested in the finances of the Hundred Years War.

              An easy way to build finances! wink Shhh! Only you - and no one else! stop So, first at Poitiers you capture John the Good, and then you demand several French annual budgets for him. fellow Solid profit! yes
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 13 October 2021 13: 31
                +5
                There, as for me, there was a very muddy story.
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 13 October 2021 13: 34
                  +6
                  There, as for me, there was a very muddy story.

                  As for me, so one overage dunduk decided to play the great commander, and ditched his army, along the way being captured. A couple of days ago, on some historical channel, they showed, just about the campaign of the Black Prince - he just went on a raid, rob and burn. Nothing personal - just undermining the economy and terror. He was intercepted on the way back, EMNIP, and in fact forced to accept the battle of Poitiers?
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 13 October 2021 13: 46
                    +5
                    It's not about the battle of Poitiers, but about the situation that developed later. 3 million livres in gold denomination, which is more than 11,5 thousand tons of gold. Whence suddenly in France, which has always operated with silver, such a gold reserve?
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 13 October 2021 13: 59
                      +5
                      Whence suddenly in France, which has always operated with silver, such a gold reserve?

                      Now you just broke my brain ... recourse Pass! request
                      3 million livres in gold denomination, which is more than 11,5 thousand tons of gold.

                      I recall the expression: "Only cowards pay off debts!" laughing Interesting income of France at that time ...
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 13 October 2021 14: 02
                        +5
                        About one million livres a year. But then it was even more interesting!
                      2. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 13 October 2021 14: 04
                        +4
                        About one million livres a year

                        Livre - applied to gold or silver? Or is it an independent, abstract unit of measurement?
                        But then it was even more interesting!

                        Intrigued! The French began to repay the debt, but the British did not want to take it? wassat
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 13 October 2021 14: 08
                        +4
                        Livre at that time was a monetary unit and did not have a physical embodiment.
                      4. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 13 October 2021 14: 13
                        +4
                        As is known, John was captured with his son. Having agreed on the ransom, the king went to France to collect the sought-for loot (this godly deed caused Jacquerie a little later), leaving the prince hostage
                      5. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 13 October 2021 14: 22
                        +4
                        After the first transfers arrived, my son suddenly (!), Ignorantly "pulls off the kichi." Outraged by such a "nonsense" act of his offspring, papa goes to England, despite the protests of the French public, where he dies a few months later "from an unknown disease."
                      6. Klio2
                        Klio2 13 October 2021 18: 09
                        +2
                        "dies after a few months:" from an unknown disease "just the same" disease "has been known since biblical times. Only there was a bowl of lentils, probably 70-120 grams, and later appetites grew and in the latter case there was a royal throne. more expensive than lentils
                      7. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 13 October 2021 18: 16
                        +2
                        I do not understand, please expand ...
                      8. Klio2
                        Klio2 13 October 2021 19: 49
                        +2
                        I think the king was "helped" to die.
                        I remembered about Chichevitsa as one of the first cases when relatives sell.
                        Agree that the death of the king is primarily beneficial to the heir or the people behind him. After all, the king does not exist in a vacuum. There is a retinue who are interested in his success!
                2. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 13 October 2021 14: 24
                  +4
                  In the end, France paid the ransom, but vague doubts arise, but how much gold was in those coins?
                3. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 13 October 2021 15: 21
                  +4
                  In the end, France paid the ransom, but vague doubts arise, but how much gold was in those coins?

                  I don’t understand a bit where you’re getting at ... the "greedy cubs method"? I mean, it wasn't gold, but, um ... fake? Excuse me for being naive! drinks
                4. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 13 October 2021 15: 31
                  +4
                  The fact is that the bill of the French silver coin was at that time an obvious fact of the reign of Philip the Fair. He generally practiced counterfeiting at the state level, for which he had the nickname (one of) "Red-faced". That's why the British demanded gold
      2. Engineer
        Engineer 13 October 2021 14: 18
        +5
        At one time he considered the ransom for John LeBon
        It turned out somewhere around 50 tons of silver
        There was a figure of 12 tons of gold. Without thousands of course.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 13 October 2021 16: 13
          +5
          There was a figure of 12 tons of gold. Without thousands of course.
          Yes, you are undoubtedly right! My cant
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 13 October 2021 15: 03
    +4
    Thanks for the information. I read it, oh, guys, vague doubts torment me, although it is well written. M. Polo is also such a source, you don't know where to believe.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 13 October 2021 08: 22
    +6
    Somehow this time there are a lot of typos ...
    Thanks Edward!
    1. Edward Vashchenko
      13 October 2021 11: 52
      +6
      Anton,
      good day,
      thanks ... yeah, hurry up, make people laugh.
      I will be more attentive
      hi
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 13 October 2021 12: 39
        +3
        Thanks Edward! good
        And in the spring of 1279 the Mongolian fleet approached the island of Yayshan,


        Mongolian fleet, sounds kind of anachronistic to me. Could you elaborate on this issue.

        Thank you in advance, Marine Your Cat. smile
        1. Edward Vashchenko
          13 October 2021 14: 20
          +8
          Dear Konstantin,
          The Mongolian fleet, this figure of speech, of course, the crews were the Chinese. In the case of campaigns against Japan, also the Koreans.
          At the beginning, the Chinese from Jin, it is difficult to say, there is no data, but rather there were not so many of them, but after the capture of Song. In subsequent articles about the campaigns of the Mongol-Chinese fleet in the countries of the South Seas.
          Yours faithfully,
          Edward
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 13 October 2021 14: 24
            +6
            I wonder if there are modern reconstructions of these ships, at least in computer graphics?
            1. Edward Vashchenko
              13 October 2021 15: 20
              +7
              Constantine
              I was looking, four years ago, it was interesting myself. There is one Anglo-Hong Kong company King & Country, it produces many VIM miniatures based on Chinese history, but they only have boats, not ships.

              And I also remember there is a Soviet cartoon, so the mandarin ship ran aground. laughing
              Alas. I will not help much.
              But most likely there should be
              hi
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 13 October 2021 15: 37
                +4
                Thanks, I'll try to search myself. smile
              2. Daniil Konovalenko
                Daniil Konovalenko 13 October 2021 16: 06
                +6
                And I also remember there is a Soviet cartoon, so the mandarin ship ran aground.
                Called "Liu Brothers" smile About three brothers.
            2. Maxim G
              Maxim G 13 October 2021 19: 32
              +6
              There are drawings from the Osprey publishing house.
              https://coollib.com/b/274486-s-v-ivanov-boevyie-korabli-drevnego-kitaya-200-g-do-ne-1413-g-ne/read

              1. Catfish
                Catfish 14 October 2021 09: 45
                +2
                Thank you, Maxim, I'll take a look. Only here the measurements are somehow in doubt. smile
                1. Maxim G
                  Maxim G 14 October 2021 10: 32
                  +3
                  And paddle wheels?)
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 14 October 2021 10: 43
                    +3
                    I cannot seriously comment on this. request smile
          2. Crowe
            Crowe 13 October 2021 14: 56
            +11
            In subsequent articles on the campaigns of the Mongolian-Chinese fleet in the countries of the South Seas
            Thank you in advance - a very interesting topic!

            Six hundred years back in antiquity -
            Fourth summer of Kooan management
            From the state named Mongol
            A hundred thousand enemies came to our homeland.

            All our warriors of the Land of the Source of the Sun,
            Exclaiming: “Hateful armada!
            Behold the muscle of the sons of Nippon! " -
            We went ahead and defeated the enemy.

            Then the Great Wind began to blow and rage,
            And the waves rose above the mountains - and above ...
            Four thousand hostile ships
            We went upside down, got beat up, sank.

            So, one hundred thousandth horde of Mongols!
            Those who have escaped fate are negligible
            And the rest - all without exception -
            Sank forever into our sea.

            (From the Reader
            for a normal primary school,
            Great Japanese Empire, 1908)
            1. depressant
              depressant 13 October 2021 15: 53
              +7
              A little help:
              Kamikadze (Japanese 神 風 kamikaze, simpu :, kami - "deity", kaze - "wind") - "divine wind", the name of the typhoon, which twice, in 1274 and 1281, destroyed the ships of the Mongol armada of Kublai Khan on the approaches to the shores Japan.
        2. Crowe
          Crowe 13 October 2021 15: 05
          +11
          Mongolian fleet, sounds like an anachronism to me
          In vain! At first it was the largest fleet in the world. Then he became the smallest fleet in the world. In general, a long history ... But by 1990, the Mongolian fleet consisted of one vessel, the two-deck "Sukhbaatar III"
          The crew of the ship consisted of 7 people, and only one of the sailors knew how to swim. I assume that he is in the picture. In an interview, one of the Mongolian sailors said: “I would like to see the real sea someday. I think swimming in it is much more pleasant. Here, on Lake Khubsugul, the current is stormy and cold ”.
          1. Crowe
            Crowe 13 October 2021 15: 07
            +9
            In June 2019, the only lake-river military unit in the republic was formed. It is based on Lake Buir Nuur, a 610-square-kilometer body of water bordering China.
            The fleet is equipped with high-speed boats, though mostly inflatable.
            The brave Mongolian sailors prefer to patrol the border even on jet skis:
            Yes, I almost forgot - hundreds of civilian ships sail under the Mongolian flag!
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 13 October 2021 15: 11
              +3
              In vain! At first it was the largest fleet in the world.

              When?
              1. Crowe
                Crowe 13 October 2021 15: 14
                +10
                Under Khubilai, when the Ipponians landed their own marines on the islands, let Edward tell him better. I am sure he will do better.
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 13 October 2021 15: 18
                  +9
                  Under Khubilai, when the Ipponians landed their own marines on the islands, let Edward tell him better. I am sure he will do better.

                  The Great Leader is right. soldier From those times and the word "kamikaze" is known. hi
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 13 October 2021 15: 40
                    +4
                    The Great Leader is right.

                    I doubt. And Edward has no information on the ships.
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 13 October 2021 17: 11
                      +9
                      I doubt. And Edward has no information on the ships.

                      However, Khubilai made two attempts to land in Japan.
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 13 October 2021 17: 14
                        +4
                        There was such an anecdote in the seventies:

                        "The Chinese launched a satellite. Three hundred million were holding the slingshot, another three hundred were pulling on an elastic band."
                        True, now it’s no laughing matter. request
                      2. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 13 October 2021 17: 31
                        +6
                        "The Chinese launched a satellite. Three hundred million were holding the slingshot, another three hundred were pulling on an elastic band."

                        And the tragedy was that fifty thousand did not have time to unhook, and flew away after the satellite.
                        There was such an anecdote in the seventies

                        This is all understandable, and this anecdote amused me in the 2000s. But you read about the origin of the word "kamikaze". It initially had nothing to do with stoned suicide bombers on planes. And it arose precisely during the attempts to disembark Kublai.
                      3. Catfish
                        Catfish 13 October 2021 17: 35
                        +4
                        I know the origin of this word. I was interested in the early seventies, when I read "The War at Sea 1939-45." There, in fact, there was a translator's footnote, which explained what it means and where it came from.
                      4. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 13 October 2021 17: 38
                        +6
                        I know the origin of this word. I was interested in the early seventies, when I read "The War at Sea 1939-45." There, in fact, there was a translator's footnote, which explained what it means and where it came from.

                        Sorry, for God's sake. Yes, the typhoon twice scattered the Mongol ships, the Japons were so happy about this that they called such a phenomenon "divine wind".
                        We declare this to you, like the cat Mikado! drinks
                      5. Catfish
                        Catfish 13 October 2021 17: 39
                        +5
                        I respect the opinion of the cat, because the cat itself. smile drinks
                      6. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 13 October 2021 17: 45
                        +4
                        I respect the opinion of the cat, because the cat itself.

                        That's what he called the cat, because he was holding Turnbull's book about samurai in his hands then, as he brought him home! laughing
                      7. Catfish
                        Catfish 13 October 2021 17: 52
                        +5
                        I wonder ... What if you had read Omar Khayyam then? smile
                      8. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 13 October 2021 17: 59
                        +5
                        And if you read Omar Khayyam then?

                        I would then call him not Mika, but Khayyam-Omar, in common parlance - Kharya. request Moreover, he later ate this same mug ... fellow
                      9. Catfish
                        Catfish 13 October 2021 18: 07
                        +5
                        Kharya ... no respect for a close friend. Ugh... negative
                    2. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 13 October 2021 18: 17
                      +4
                      Really "Jug"?
                      Although in the fairy tale "The Fox and the Crane" there was crane food in the jug.
                    3. Catfish
                      Catfish 14 October 2021 09: 47
                      +2
                      "Even with a cast iron, just don't put it in the oven." (C)))))))))))))))))))
  • Catfish
    Catfish 13 October 2021 15: 39
    +4
    Edward has already answered above, he has no information on the ships.
  • Edward Vashchenko
    13 October 2021 15: 46
    +8
    I wanted to blur about the Iponians, the article was ready, but I wrote it in passing, it’s a very hackneyed topic)))
    hi
    1. Crowe
      Crowe 13 October 2021 16: 17
      +9
      I wanted to blur about the Iponians
      No, "We demand the continuation of the banquet!" ©
      Especially since
      article ready
      It’s interesting! It’s better to read about it, otherwise they say Monsieur Kharaluzhny has returned - he has already seen it somewhere today.
    2. depressant
      depressant 13 October 2021 19: 43
      +4
      very hackneyed topic

      Edward, let's go Japanese!
      So much poetry, pictures, and weird customs that take the brain out! wassat )))
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 13 October 2021 16: 09
    +5
    A lot of ships sail under the Mongolian flag nowadays. It can be said that Mongolia has a large merchant fleet, almost like Switzerland.
    1. Edward Vashchenko
      13 October 2021 16: 31
      +6
      Recently, the governor of St. Petersburg held negotiations on the construction of ships for Turkmenistan.
  • depressant
    depressant 13 October 2021 13: 49
    +12
    Great article, reads like a novel.
    Edward! hi
    And this:
    The presence of a glorious history does not negate the military defeat in our time. The craft of war is not transmitted "genetically", but depends on the state of society in the current moment.

    Wisely!
    1. Edward Vashchenko
      13 October 2021 14: 16
      +7
      Wisely!

      Lyudmila Yakovlevna,
      sounds nice.
      hi
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 13 October 2021 14: 27
      +7
      The craft of war is not transmitted "genetically", but depends on the state of society in the current moment.

      Exceptionally true! good
      France 1940.
  • depressant
    depressant 13 October 2021 16: 33
    +8
    The article mentions Fazlallah Abu-l-Khair Rashid al-Din Hamadani. But really, why did the Mongols entrust the writing of a fundamental work as their own historical chronicle not to a literate Chinese or Uighur, but to the Iranian-speaking Persian Rashid ad-Din?
    By the way, somewhere I met the opinion of Rashid ad-Din that of all the people he met, Russians are the most beautiful.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 13 October 2021 17: 12
      +5
      Do you, Lyudmila Yakovlevna, think that at the time of the creation of "Jami 'at-tavarikh" the Mongol "empire" was a monolithic state?
      1. depressant
        depressant 13 October 2021 17: 26
        +5
        No I do not think so. You know, I read articles on VO and, in accordance with them, look for essays on the Web.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 13 October 2021 17: 54
          +5
          Then I do not understand the essence of your question, explain?
          1. depressant
            depressant 13 October 2021 17: 58
            +5
            Anton, explain your question first, then I will explain mine wassat )))
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 13 October 2021 18: 15
              +5
              You are asking why the Mongols entrusted the Persian and not the Chinese, I am perplexed, for the Hulagid state and the Yuan empire are two big differences.
              1. depressant
                depressant 13 October 2021 18: 34
                +5
                But after all, Rashid ad-Din created his "Collection of Chronicles" in Iranian, in fact, in the Turkic dialect, and the Mongols at that time spoke Khalkha-Mongolian. For whom did you write something?
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 13 October 2021 19: 25
                  +4
                  Because the Hulagid state and the Yuan state are two big differences, even in those days.
                  1. depressant
                    depressant 13 October 2021 20: 31
                    +1
                    I believe that it is unlikely that there would be translators from Chinese in Europe. But from the language in which Rashid ad-Din wrote, there were translators in many European countries. To create a chronicle in Chinese as a depiction of Mongol exploits for the Chinese - what's the point? They already know for themselves, I suppose a lot of such papers have been scribbled and, there is no doubt, with insults. And Rashid is a respectable ruler, a famous, revered person, and everything that he writes in a calm and impartial manner will be immediately translated into many languages, and the greatness of the Mongol conquests will become widely known in Europe and will make a proper impression and even intimidation. Otherwise, what greatness is there without fame and fear?
                    That is why Rashid ad-Din was chosen.
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 13 October 2021 20: 37
                      +3
                      Lyudmila Yakovlevna, don’t you think that you have diverged too much from the idea of ​​the globalization of power ?!
                      1. depressant
                        depressant 13 October 2021 20: 40
                        +2
                        Is this a reproach? Well, take me to her! wassat )))
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 13 October 2021 20: 45
                        +3
                        This is not a reproach, this is an attempt at psychiatric diagnostics ("dispersed," in the sense, "got loose"), excuse me for being tactless!
                      3. depressant
                        depressant 13 October 2021 20: 55
                        +2
                        Are you expelling me from the forum?
                      4. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 13 October 2021 21: 04
                        +3
                        Dismiss from such functionality, Lyudmila Yakovlevna! I am "nobody" here and call me "no way". We're just cooing sweetly
                      5. depressant
                        depressant 13 October 2021 21: 16
                        +3
                        And, as it turns out, "cooing" looks like ...
                        Anton ... I hope Panov and his "Enclaves" have nothing to do with it? Otherwise, this cunning dude sits with his artist in a beautiful house surrounded by a forest, scribbles, literally formalizing other people's considerations pulled from the Internet, picks up a lot of money and with might and main enjoys life in a southern climate, and here we look askance at each other from for him ... Away with it all!
                        Long live the Mongols who are making up China in agony! wassat ))))
                      6. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 13 October 2021 21: 18
                        +3
                        And what does Panov have to do with it?
                      7. depressant
                        depressant 13 October 2021 21: 27
                        +2
                        And so it seemed to me. I noticed that you became unhappy with me when we started talking about the future, well, there is a monarchy, or cyber-punk. Correctly dissatisfied, Anton! There is no need to talk about the future, it is necessary to wait for it. What will be, such will have to open the door and invite inside. Otherwise, we will scare away at least some, and it will not come at all, it will not step on the foot, it will not push it away and it will not give it in the head.
                  2. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 13 October 2021 21: 34
                    +3
                    “I am your suitors - through the knee!
                    I'll spoil your dad's blood!
                    Oh, come out, come out, come out, Agrafena, -
                    Oh, do not ruin the robber love! " (with).
      2. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 14 October 2021 09: 27
        +2
        Because the Khulagid state

        At first I read on a blue eye - "state of Hooligans". laughing
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 14 October 2021 09: 32
          +2
          "This is what the full eye means,
          In the morning! " (WITH)
  • Liam
    Liam 13 October 2021 21: 11
    +3
    Quote: depressant
    The article mentions Fazlallah Abu-l-Khair Rashid al-Din Hamadani. But really, why did the Mongols entrust the writing of a fundamental work as their own historical chronicle not to a literate Chinese or Uighur, but to the Iranian-speaking Persian Rashid ad-Din?
    By the way, somewhere I met the opinion of Rashid ad-Din that of all the people he met, Russians are the most beautiful.

    Rashid ad Din wrote his chronicle based on the Mongol Altan Debter
    1. depressant
      depressant 13 October 2021 21: 38
      +3
      That's right! The story of Genghis Khan with his children and family members had to be told in a popular language, that is, to make a translation from Mongolian, and even from scattered sheets. And at the same time, convert the translated into digestible reading. Hellish labor.
      1. Liam
        Liam 13 October 2021 21: 54
        +2
        The Chinese chronicles are also essentially a translation from the Mongolian of this chronicle. In general, the Chingizids in neighboring countries were engaged in PR.
        Moreover, the original in Mongolian was considered a holy book and only the highest Mongolian nobility had access to it. Therefore, translations in foreign languages ​​were needed.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 13 October 2021 16: 52
    +4
    "What the whole capital knew about", but not the emperor.
    Okay, the "divine" was too busy, but there were no "well-wishers" ?!
    If so, then "savsem" we screwed up. Now, just like "knock, knock": "oh, sun-faced," and Song fart when you walked. Ah Chun buried a feather the heat of a bird
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 13 October 2021 17: 40
    +4
    Edward, colleagues, good evening. I was already afraid that I would not see the section "History" today. I was offered: "Novosti", "Analytics", some kind of North Korean hybrid.
    Eduard, I am glad to see you, otherwise I have already forgotten the Mongols. I thought that you got lost in the steppe with them.
    1. Edward Vashchenko
      13 October 2021 18: 15
      +8
      Good evening,
      in the steppe there is always a counselor who will lead you out behind a hare sheepskin coat, of course.
      hi
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 13 October 2021 20: 06
        +2
        And half a dime for vodka.
        In childhood, 50 kopecks were called "fifty kopecks", and what was that fifty kopecks equal to? I think the same, but the purchasing power was much higher.
        1. Senior seaman
          Senior seaman 14 October 2021 08: 56
          +3
          Quote: Astra wild2
          , and what was that fifty dollar equal to?

          Half a ruble or 50 kopecks
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 14 October 2021 10: 13
            +3
            Half a ruble or 50 kopecks

            On the XNUMXth of October I was in the Novgorod Museum. There is a very extensive collection of ancient Russian coins. Starting from ancient hryvnias.
  • depressant
    depressant 13 October 2021 17: 55
    +6
    I looked at the political map of China for a long time. Inner Mongolia ...
    This is the north of China. In 1636, the khanates and principalities, hereinafter called Inner Mongolia, were conquered by the Manchu Qing dynasty and received a strange allied status. Like China, but like not. In any case, the Qing dynasty used the troops of the "internal Mongols" to suppress anti-Manchu uprisings in China right up to the second half of the 19th century - oh, how! It seems that China was a rather loose formation until recently.
  • depressant
    depressant 13 October 2021 19: 21
    +5
    GAO TSY
    From poems written in the village:

    In the edge of the eastern dwelling
    I managed to find.
    I found a convenient boulder -
    fish from him.
    Pre-dawn rain -
    wet willow on the way. Half-day wind -
    rice stops blooming.
    The branches sway, plays with my gray hair.
    I try not to remember
    my former service.
    I try not to answer
    when I return to service.
    Bureaucratic hat
    will not like it in this region.
    I will learn to sew
    and I will sew a peasant dress.

    This is Chinese poetry from the 13th century. Then there was another:
    You don't need to strive for the truth,
    Consciousness is originally a Buddha.
    What is familiar goes into the distance
    What is unknown is the best friend.
    Day and night,
    Everything is wonderful.
    Nothing can confuse you.
    This is the essence of what consciousness is.

    This is Han-shan Deqing, acutely experiencing the fundamental impossibility of lexicon transmission of deep truths even with the help of comparison or metaphor. How familiar!)))
  • Fat
    Fat 13 October 2021 23: 45
    +2
    hi Edward, luxurious as always! Thanks...