Military Review

Synthetic liquid fuels in Germany: past experiences and new technologies

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Synthetic liquid fuels in Germany: past experiences and new technologies

Leuna-Werke plant, one of the main producers of synthetic gasoline. Photo of the Bundesarchive of the Federal Republic of Germany


There are oil fields in Germany, but their volume is very limited. As a result, the country is seriously dependent on the supply of imported oil and petroleum products, which can threaten national security. In the distant past, the problem of dependence was solved by the production of synthetic liquid fuels from available raw materials. Now technologies of a similar purpose are being offered to improve the environment.

Old technology


The search for alternative methods of obtaining liquid fuel to replace petroleum products began in the tenth years of the XX century. The first technology suitable for mass use was proposed in 1913 by the future Nobel laureate Friedrich Bergius. Two years later, he built and launched the first plant using the new process. Subsequently, the rights to use the berginization method were acquired by larger enterprises.

The Bergius process involved the use of coal or lignite as raw materials. The crushed raw material was mixed with a set of special additives and catalysts, and a suspension was made from it. The latter was mixed with hydrogen, also obtained using coal, and then fed into chemical reactors, where temperatures were maintained up to 450-485 ° C and pressures up to 500-700 atm.

The output produced synthetic crude oil - a mixture of gas oil, diesel fuel, several gases and other components. This intermediate product was then processed to recover medium and heavy oils, gasoline and gases.


Gasoline advertisement from Leuna-Werke. Graphics LW / Wikimedia Commons

In 1926, chemists Franz Fischer and Hans Tropsch proposed an alternative technology that had its advantages. So, it made it possible to use both hard coal and brown coal, which Germany had in large quantities, as raw materials. By the end of the twenties, the so-called. the Fischer-Tropsch process was mastered by various enterprises and provided the country with the necessary fuel. At the same time, various ways of improving the technology were proposed.

The Fischer-Tropsch process began with the development of the so-called. synthesis gas or water gas - a mixture of carbon monoxide and hydrogen. It was obtained by treating crushed coal with superheated steam. Synthesis gas could be obtained in other ways. It could be immediately used in internal combustion engines. Also, by mixing with other substances, synthesis gas was converted into liquid fuel. The technology made it possible to obtain different types of fuel, but only synthetic gasoline was economically justified.

Processes in practice


The Bergius process has been used in industry since the mid-tenths, and 10-12 years later, the introduction of the Fischer-Tropsch method began. Both technologies, in their original and modified form, showed themselves well and made a certain contribution to providing the national economy and the army with liquid fuel. However, the share of synthetic gasolines and oils in the total consumption of Germany remained insignificant until a certain time. During that period, the country relied on the purchase of foreign oil and petroleum products.


One of the main consumers of gasoline in Nazi Germany was the Luftwaffe. Photo of the Bundesarchive of the Federal Republic of Germany

The situation began to change with the coming to power of the Nazis. In 1936, a program for the development of synthetic fuel production was adopted. It was planned to build several new factories operating in two main processes. They were supposed to increase the total output of fuel, while reducing the need for imports. All large organizations from the IG Farben conglomerate were involved in the work.

The first factories of the new construction started working in 1938, they used "berginization". In 1939, several factories were launched using the Fischer-Tropsch method. Already in 1940, the production of new fuel reached the level of 70-80 thousand barrels per day. This was enough to cover a third of the country's needs at that time. Subsequently, the industry's indicators increased. Their peak was in 1944, when 25 plants together produced 5,7 million tons of fuel. At the same time, production was not very economical. The record annual fuel output required the use of about 60 million tons of coal.

Along with production, the need for workers grew. Since 1941, this problem has been solved through slave labor. Prisoners of war and prisoners of concentration camps became factory workers. The Nazis did not even think about improving working conditions or observing safety precautions. As a result, a significant part of the forced laborers died from poisoning and injuries, while others undermined their health.

In May 1944 the British aviation began regular strikes on factories and storage facilities for synthetic fuels in Germany and the occupied territories. The bombing raids over several months caused irreparable damage to the industry and also contributed to the deterioration of the position of the Nazis. In the spring of 1945, the remaining synthetic fuel plants ceased operations. The winning countries were banned from restoring this production.


New "environmentally friendly" plant in Werlte. Atmostar Photos

Environmental objectives


In the post-war period, both Germany gained access to foreign oil and could receive it in the required quantities. Own deposits were also explored and developed. All this as a whole covered the needs of the Federal Republic of Germany and the German Democratic Republic in liquid fuel, and also made it possible for many years not to even remember the production of synthetic fuels.

However, fusion technologies have attracted attention again, but not for economic reasons. Now they must contribute to the improvement of the ecological situation. The German non-profit group Atmosfair, with the assistance of the Federal Ministry of the Environment, Siemens and a number of other organizations, has developed and implemented a project for a "green" plant for the production of aviation kerosene. The plant was built in the commune of Werlte (Lower Saxony) and has recently started operations.

The plant should use the improved Fischer-Tropsch process. Carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and from a biogas plant is used as a raw material for the production of synthetic oil. Hydrogen will be produced by electrolysis from the water of local reservoirs. The enterprise receives electricity from the nearest wind farm. The resulting crude oil is distilled into aviation kerosene.

By the beginning of 2022, the Atmosfair plant should reach its design capacity - about 8 barrels of kerosene per day. Such fuel will cost approx. 5 euros per liter, significantly more than "simple" kerosene. However, the authors of the project are pushing for its environmental benefits. They indicate that the raw materials and energy for the production of fuels are taken from the environment. Due to this, when kerosene is burned, the same amount of carbon is emitted into the atmosphere as was used during the production stage. The balance of substances does not change, which is beneficial for nature.


Whether the plant will be able to bypass competitors is a big question. Atmostar Photos

Atmostar believes that the new synthetic fuel will become economically viable in the future. However, for this, it is necessary to introduce additional taxes on fossil fuels, so that it will rise in price to the required level. Under such conditions, synthetic kerosene will become competitive and attract investors. It will also be possible to expand production, incl. with the release of new types of products.

Needs and benefits


Thus, over the past little century, Germany has accumulated a large scientific and technological experience in the production of synthetic liquid fuels and the replacement of traditional petroleum products. In the distant past, the need for such technologies actually disappeared, but now it is proposed to revive them, moreover, on a new basis and with a different ideological rationale.

Recent ones news green plant are of some interest, but are unlikely to attract the attention of fuel buyers or investors. Despite all the original ideas, Atmosfair kerosene is not economically viable and cannot compete with fossil oil fuels.

The situation can change in his favor only with the introduction of new unfair restrictions capable of hitting existing enterprises and their clients. Time will tell whether Germany will sacrifice its existing industry and infrastructure for the sake of current environmental ideas.
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  1. svp67
    svp67 7 October 2021 18: 13
    +6
    Hydrogen will be produced by electrolysis from the water of local reservoirs.
    Forests have worn out, now the rivers will drain ... And they will not produce any synthetic gasoline now, they will be limited to hydrogen ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Cowbra
      Cowbra 7 October 2021 19: 12
      +5
      Kin-dza-dza - a prophetic film
    3. Svarog
      Svarog 7 October 2021 20: 20
      -4
      Quote: svp67
      Forests have worn out, now the rivers will drain ...

      I don’t quite understand .. are you talking about Russia?
      1. Proxima
        Proxima 7 October 2021 21: 58
        +2
        "By the beginning of 2022, the Atmosfair plant should reach its design capacity - about 8 (!!!) belay barrels of kerosene per day. " - from the text - as many as eight barrels of kerosene fellow well this is at least a revolution in the world energy drinks drinks Greta Tumberg probably won't be overjoyed good
    4. Civil
      Civil 7 October 2021 21: 06
      +2
      Carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and from a biogas plant is used as a raw material for the production of synthetic oil. Hydrogen will be produced by electrolysis from the water of local reservoirs.

      That would be so small, but to the dacha! With such gasoline prices, that's it.
      1. Alf
        Alf 7 October 2021 21: 19
        +12
        Quote: Civil
        Carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and from a biogas plant is used as a raw material for the production of synthetic oil. Hydrogen will be produced by electrolysis from the water of local reservoirs.

        That would be so small, but to the dacha! With such gasoline prices, that's it.

        Who will allow you? If it is already forbidden to breed chickens in the plots ...
      2. fif21
        fif21 7 October 2021 21: 31
        +4
        Quote: Civil
        With gas prices like that

        At the dacha, you can drive moonshine at 80 degrees, using only products of our own production! What is not fuel? wassat
        1. vadim dok
          vadim dok 8 October 2021 16: 14
          +1
          At one time in Brazil, cars used alcohol! Cars ran on a mixture of 85% alcohol + 15% gasoline!
      3. ja-ja-vw
        ja-ja-vw 7 October 2021 22: 05
        +3
        Quote: Civil
        With such gasoline prices, that's it.

        5 Euro per liter? are you ready to refuel yourself at 430 rubles a liter?
        1. gsev
          gsev 8 October 2021 00: 55
          +1
          Quote: ja-ja-vw
          5 Euro per liter? are you ready to refuel yourself at 430 rubles a liter?

          Getting oil from coal is cost-effective at an oil price of about $ 200 a barrel. But there are also environmental problems. Methyl alcohol may be released during the reaction. In addition, during many chemical reactions, albeit in small doses, any side rubbish like phosgene can be released.
          1. Guru
            Guru 8 October 2021 10: 18
            +2
            stand out and all the side stuff like phosgene
            Phosgene is- -CCl₂O- Where does Chlorine come from? belay
            Methyl alcohol may be released during the reaction.
            If you do not use it internally, then there is nothing wrong with it.
            In addition, in many chemical reactions
            The fact of the matter is that it is chemical, not nuclear. The main problem in this technology is temperatures up to 450-485 ° C and pressures up to 500-700 atm. The main problem is pressure.
          2. ja-ja-vw
            ja-ja-vw 8 October 2021 11: 29
            +2
            Quote: gsev
            Getting oil from coal is cost-effective at an oil price of about $ 200 per barrel


            Quote: gsev
            But there are also environmental problems. Methyl alcohol may be released during the reaction.

            methyl alcohol - from it synthetic rubber for car tires, plastics for the interior and exterior of cars. When mixed with gasoline, methanol can be used as a fuel.
            Quote: gsev
            albeit in small doses, but any side rubbish like phosgene can be released.



            Phosgene is a large-scale product of industrial organic synthesis, global production in 2015 was 8,526 million tons
            Quote: Guru
            Where does Chlorine come from?

            maybe maybe
            SO2 is emitted in decent amounts
            2SO2 + O2 (from air) = SO3 (delenium)
            Even at low temperatures
            2SO3+CCl4->S2C5Cl2+COCl2
            CCl4
            CP4 methane is present in any case
            and Сl is probably used in technology or by itself
            Chlorine is the most abundant halogen in the earth's crust.
      4. KERMET
        KERMET 8 October 2021 19: 43
        0
        It's easier to pay for gasoline than the staff of technologists and repair services for this plant
      5. tolancop
        tolancop 12 October 2021 12: 44
        0
        Quote: Civil
        That would be so small, but to the dacha! With such gasoline prices, that's it.

        And the electricity bills will keep your eyes on your forehead afterwards?
      6. kimvladimiril
        kimvladimiril 12 October 2021 14: 53
        0
        What is the size of a dacha to fit a whole plant?
  2. DrRey
    DrRey 7 October 2021 18: 20
    0
    8 barrels per day seems to be a mistake. And so the idea is good, but only the scale will save it, although it is unlikely. With such methods of obtaining raw materials, ways of reducing costs are somehow not observed.
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 7 October 2021 18: 32
      +8
      Quote: DrRey
      8 barrels per day appears to be a mistake. And so the idea is good

      There is no error here:
      The new plant, located in Werlte, Germany, uses water and electricity from four nearby wind farms to produce hydrogen. Hydrogen combines with carbon dioxide - some of it is captured directly from the air - to form crude oil, which is then processed into jet fuel. Synthetic kerosene is carbon neutral. This means that when such fuel is burned, the chimney or tailpipe captures carbon, resulting in net negative CO2 emissions.
      The Atmosfair plant is designed to demonstrate the economic and technological feasibility of producing e-fuel. Starting next year, it will produce just 8 barrels a day, or 1272 liters, of jet fuel, which means it will take 3 weeks to refuel one small passenger plane. Nevertheless, the company will sell e-fuel to German airline Lufthansa and, according to the plan, hopes to ramp up production in the coming years.
    2. t-12
      t-12 7 October 2021 18: 37
      +3
      In the original news - 8 barrels:

      is expected to begin producing eight barrels (about 1 ton) of synthetic kerosene a day in early 2022.

      https://www.dw.com/en/sustainable-aviation-fuel-power-to-liquid/a-59398405
    3. Blacksmith 55
      Blacksmith 55 7 October 2021 20: 03
      0
      I read about this venture on the German Wikipedia.
      44 kg of fuel per hour, that's just over a ton per day.
      But this is an experimental enterprise, it is possible that they will be built with greater productivity.
  3. Eug
    Eug 7 October 2021 18: 20
    +2
    As far as I know, under the USSR in Kharkov, a similar technology was developed in the interests of the Navy, but I don't remember - either by the Physico-Technical Institute of Low Temperatures (FTINT), or by the Institute of Mechanical Engineering Problems (IPMASH) ..
    1. knn54
      knn54 7 October 2021 18: 42
      +5
      Eugene, in the Gorbachev era, specialists from South Africa came to the USSR.
      But given the oil reserves and its price, the project was closed due to unprofitability.
      -However, for this it is necessary to introduce additional taxes on fossil fuels so that it will rise in price to the required level.
      The West has long wanted to impose, first of all, on the Russian Federation, the so-called "carbon tax".
      The essence boils down to the introduction of additional import duties on any goods and services associated with the use of "dirty", that is, not "green" sources of energy and / or raw materials.
      What will mean an increase in duties on the export of Russian goods to the EU. That is, they will not buy iron and steel, nitrogen fertilizers, etc.
      Will "choke" any competitor. Profits will fall, unemployment, social riots.
      But this is still their "theoretical" desires.
      1. Firelake
        Firelake 8 October 2021 17: 30
        +2
        Actually, this is practice. In general, in a country where the economy is tied to the sale of raw materials, it can take a ride. We must give the people money and develop a consumption economy based on our own industrial base. But it is difficult...
    2. ycuce234-san
      ycuce234-san 7 October 2021 22: 50
      -1
      In general, developments have been moving beyond "chemistry" for a long time. For example, they are already trying to make electric tanks in metal.
      And, taking into account the gradual progress in high-temperature superconductors, the future may look like robotic electric tanks with gauss and reilgans supplied by the replacement oil and gas pipelines with main continental electric cables from nuclear power plants and thermonuclear tokamaks. Now the electric gun, and quite close to the intercontinental range, is already completely packed in metal, in the dimensions of a small experimental ship.
  4. Alex_Bora
    Alex_Bora 7 October 2021 18: 22
    +10
    Carbon balance !!! And in this balance, they modestly kept silent about the crazy costs of carbon for generating electricity for the implementation of this, by definition, energy-intensive technology.
    However, like all their new lying theories about green energy, the fight against the carbon footprint.
    It is unpleasant that our government, right after the meeting with grandfather Joe at the highest level, has begun to raise awareness about this topic.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 7 October 2021 18: 29
      0
      Quote: Alex_Bora
      It is unpleasant that our government, right after the meeting with grandfather Joe at the highest level, has begun to raise awareness about this topic.

      I beg of you! It's one thing in the newspaper and quite another in practice. for show you can show not such "progressiveness".
      1. Firelake
        Firelake 8 October 2021 17: 31
        0
        For a long time already growing with the French sawing the project on hydrogen. So we are on the right track: the leader is the fuel of the future
  5. hohol95
    hohol95 7 October 2021 18: 26
    +1
    If 1 liter of water is spent on the production of 1 liter plastic bottle - how much water are the Germans ready to "ruin" for the production of "green" hydrogen?
    And what will they drink after the depletion of water resources ??? fool
    1. Constanty
      Constanty 7 October 2021 19: 26
      +2
      As far as I understand, in the electrolysis of water, in addition to hydrogen, we also get pure oxygen.
      If so, then this is a win-win.
      1. fif21
        fif21 7 October 2021 21: 34
        +1
        Quote: Constanty
        As far as I understand, in the electrolysis of water, in addition to hydrogen, we also get pure oxygen.

        Right! And we will go the other way! Water is the fuel of the future. hi
      2. Alex_Bora
        Alex_Bora 8 October 2021 07: 47
        +4
        If only it were that simple.
        The decomposition of water requires a lot more energy than would be obtained after burning hydrogen in engines, boilers, etc. What will be the carbon footprint? Probably more than just burning gasoline. Only now is it supposed to pay for this trail to the one who made it. We will start selling hydrogen, but we will also be obliged to pay for its carbon footprint.
        This is a reshaping of the world economy. The desire to slow down the developing economies of Asia and, in the long term, Africa. Let them still pay the West for their goods, for their carbon footprint. Well, we are with them.
        1. Firelake
          Firelake 8 October 2021 17: 32
          0
          Well, what is wrong? Capitalism however
    2. Troll
      Troll 7 October 2021 20: 43
      -2
      And why exactly ruin it? In Germany, they are quite strict about nature conservation. In canals and rivers, fish is actually found. The whole palette of freshwater fish is found, ruff to eel.
      ..
      Essentially:
      In Germany, American capital is at the head of everything. That is, even though the firms are called old, familiar, German names, they are managed by Uncle Sam. And he does not feel sorry for anything European and he does what he wants.
    3. Alf
      Alf 7 October 2021 21: 21
      +4
      Quote: hohol95
      And what will they drink after the depletion of water resources ???

      Baikal is great. China has enough and the Hans too. And they will once again tell us, spreading their hands, there are also people and I ask you to accept with understanding ...
      1. Ashes of Claes
        Ashes of Claes 7 October 2021 22: 03
        +2
        By the way, for some reason, I remembered that Gaddafi back in 1991 wanged that the Americans would kill him (and gut Libya) because of his plans to begin the development of the Nubian horizon, which occupies half of the Sahara.
    4. ycuce234-san
      ycuce234-san 7 October 2021 23: 20
      -1
      There are non-potable natural waters - for example, underground natural brines.
      Nobody will waste high quality water raw materials for industrial needs.
  6. AllBiBek
    AllBiBek 7 October 2021 18: 30
    +1
    Here are just the current internal combustion engines from fuel using these technologies - they will die in a few hours of operation.
    Except, of course, the old models of multi-fuel armored vehicles for military vehicles.
    But - Greta doesn't approve.
    And the fact that burning wind turbines and solar panels in stoves is impractical, the Germans have every chance to understand by the end of the coming winter.
    And I really hope that they will not return to the idea of ​​stoking the stoves with all sorts of Gretas.
    Although, it would be useful and informative. For Europe.
    1. Abram Ivanovich
      Abram Ivanovich 7 October 2021 20: 41
      +5
      Gret is best used in gas generators or bioreactors, simple combustion is ineffective, since green is 99.99% shit.
  7. Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 7 October 2021 18: 47
    +4
    It is a common grain to be prepared for the fact that oil and gas will run out, and that a perpetual motion machine will not be invented.
  8. fa2998
    fa2998 7 October 2021 19: 06
    +1
    Quote: Eug
    development of such technology in the interests of the Navy,

    Previously, ships simply went to OIL. So why make artificial oil when there is an abundance of natural oil.
    It is in Germany that it is constantly in blockade, and there is no oil of its own - there is a need there, albeit expensive.
    1. Alf
      Alf 7 October 2021 21: 23
      +2
      Quote: fa2998
      So why make artificial oil when natural oil is in abundance.

      It depends on whom. There are some countries that only have oil in chemistry textbooks, and the seller holds the neck, and squeezes it gently from time to time so that they are more compliant ..
      1. bubalik
        bubalik 7 October 2021 22: 21
        +1
        the seller holds the neck

        Politics.
        As of January 1, 2019, according to Bundesverband Erdgas, Erdöl und Geoenergie eV, Germany's proven oil reserves were 14,2 million tons. Proved oil reserves north of the Elbe were 8,4 million tons, west of the Ems - 1,9 million tons, between the Weser and Ems rivers - 1,7 million tons, in the upper reaches of the Rhine - 1,2 million tons.
    2. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 7 October 2021 21: 25
      0
      Well, before that they walked purely through the force of the wind, and even before that - through muscular traction))
  9. Baron pardus
    Baron pardus 7 October 2021 19: 20
    0
    Damn, is it hard to find a picture of Junkers or Henkel? The photo with the caption as "The Luftwaffe consumed beznin" - Italian 3-engine bomber, like CM79.
    1. Lynnot
      Lynnot 7 October 2021 19: 57
      +3
      Didn't you recognize Aunt Ju?
      1. Baron pardus
        Baron pardus 7 October 2021 21: 20
        0
        Did not recognize. Probably reflexively - once the motor is 3x - it means Italian :-). Italians became famous for 3 motors, and by the way, I thought more than once what it would be like if I put the 2rd engine on the Pe-3, in the nose. The total power of 3 climates, (3300 hp), would be approximately equal to two merlin (1650 hp each). Would the Pe-2 have approached the Mosquito by flight characteristics ?.
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 7 October 2021 22: 14
          0
          by LTH to the Mosquito ?.
          Mosquito smile polished at the factory, and was lighter, so most likely not.
          1. Baron pardus
            Baron pardus 7 October 2021 22: 25
            0
            Then it is interesting how much the LTH would have increased. In theory, an extra engine is an extra thrust-to-weight ratio, which means more speed and, possibly, bomb loading ... With engines, we traditionally have no fun. As then, so now.
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 7 October 2021 22: 43
              0
              The idea is an extra engine
              There is also an extra supply of fuel. But here it is difficult to guess, it is necessary to count. It is not excluded that with an extra 0 l / s it would have been more frolic.
              Actually "Mosquito" is 700 kilos heavier. But here it is painted very well, covered (outside) all.
              1. Baron pardus
                Baron pardus 8 October 2021 01: 15
                -1
                Wait, VK105 was 1200 HP, not 800 HP, or am I confusing something again? So 3 such engines are 3600hp. With such a set, the pawn should carry both more bombs and more fuel, in theory. And Mosquito - Crossavcheg. Back in the USSR, I had a Mosquito model. I bought a model called "Long Range Fighter" - and it was a Mosquito. The "Export Fighter" was the P38, the "Marine Fighter" was the Hellcat, the "Frontline Fighter" This was the SPTIFAIER, the "Marine Bomber" was the Beaufighter. I have been fond of aviation in the 30-40s since childhood. In general, I have been fond of military equipment since childhood, but with these models I whinnied for a long time. If I was 11 years old, I was able to identify the models of these aircraft from the books that I had, then others could. Why hide something that is easy to find. By the way, even the fact that I found out what kind of aircraft they were, it did not prevent me from pointing the Red Stars on them. Like OURS and that's it. In addition, I had a Typhoon, and a P47 (the model did not even need to be painted, it was already black, it looked extremely WAY with Soviet stars).
                And my friend, Sashka, found somewhere in a junkyard a HEALTHY plastic WHITE model of two motor aircraft made according to a two-boom scheme. We both knew enough about airplanes to understand that this is not a P38, and not a German RAMA. Digging through the books, Sashka found that it was P61. It is not known how the white, unpainted model P61 got to the trash can. But Sashka was very proud of her. No one else had this model. But my other friend had Avro Lancaster. Where he dug it from - he never said.
                1. Bolt cutter
                  Bolt cutter 8 October 2021 10: 59
                  +2
                  I counted the power of three hypothetical Pe-2 engines versus two for the Mosquito.
                  did not interfere with pointing the Red Stars on them
                  One "mosquito" with red stars flew. And "Spitfire" with red stars and fought well. And by the way, he flew under MagenDavid.
                  1. Baron pardus
                    Baron pardus 8 October 2021 17: 18
                    0
                    Under Mogen Duved, even Me-109 was noted and far from alone. Theater of the Absurd, Jews with Mauser K98, and on Messers, fight for independence with the British on Spitfires and Lee Enfields. And Spitfire is handsome. The best WWII fighter, in my humble opinion. In terms of the combination: speed / maneuverability / rate of climb, it simply was not equal. He fought both on land and at sea.
                    1. Firelake
                      Firelake 8 October 2021 17: 39
                      0
                      I disagree ... the best were the Americans. P51 is still my greatest love. And the pitcher is just a terminator
                  2. Firelake
                    Firelake 8 October 2021 17: 38
                    0
                    As well as 109) under MagenDavid all that could have fought)
  10. Intruder
    Intruder 7 October 2021 19: 33
    -1
    Thanks to the author for the relevance of the article in the field of the latest news from Europe with its energy problems in the transition to "green" in global economies!
    Time will tell whether Germany will sacrifice its existing industry and infrastructure for the sake of current environmental ideas.
    Well, if we take on the scales, the transition period and the lungs of my children and descendants with the potential of negative climatic disasters, I personally will choose temporary difficulties and even the burden on my personal budget, for the sake of the success of this technological transition ...
    But, the other 25% have always been and will be against, under any pretext ... as always !!!
    1. Usher
      Usher 8 October 2021 00: 11
      0
      Quote: Intruder
      Thanks to the author for the relevance of the article in the field of the latest news from Europe with its energy problems in the transition to "green" in global economies!
      Time will tell whether Germany will sacrifice its existing industry and infrastructure for the sake of current environmental ideas.
      Well, if we take on the scales, the transition period and the lungs of my children and descendants with the potential of negative climatic disasters, I personally will choose temporary difficulties and even the burden on my personal budget, for the sake of the success of this technological transition ...
      But, the other 25% have always been and will be against, under any pretext ... as always !!!

      It is still debatable that this "technology" is "beneficial" for the environment. Carbon balance in nature is more important than oxygen balance. If we lower the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, we will freeze to hell and not thaw. "Land of the Snowball" have you heard? As they say, it is better to be covered seven times then than once with frost. In general, oxygen is produced by plankton and bacteria in the ocean, not forests. Better cares about the cleanliness of the oceans.
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 8 October 2021 00: 40
        0
        In general, oxygen is produced by plankton and bacteria in the ocean, not forests. Better cares about the cleanliness of the oceans.
        Also, right ... but, we will not pull real care of the World Ocean either in this century, not in the next, there are no necessary technologies, but what is, just miserable "experiments" of fans and scientific communities, such as: "samples of the pen "through grants and nothing more. Up to a heap, we do not live there all the time, we only "trample" the surface and sow "a little" highly active debris on the bottom, it is easy to calculate, though not exactly, the volume of its water and the bottom area that has not been investigated for centuries, is there !?
        If we lower the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, we will freeze to hell and not thaw.
        Well, this is fantastic, it's just that the biosphere will not allow the Man to lower it, to the level of a "snowball" on the surface of the whole, perhaps somewhere ice will come, but this was also in small glacial ones, the latter was recently generally on the time scale of the biosphere, there, so something self-regulating system and billions of years, before the man "Reasonable" ... she did everything herself, according to modern theories - up to 8 billion existence, and Humanity with its technologies, nothing at all, almost a couple of minutes, on this "time ruler"! lol
        1. Usher
          Usher 8 October 2021 00: 44
          0
          I did not mean garbage in the Ocean (although it is also dangerous), but a violation of the ecological balance. When just tens of millions of tons per year, fish and others are caught.
          1. Intruder
            Intruder 8 October 2021 00: 50
            +1
            tens of millions of tons per year, fish and other
            Well ... she is also born every year, namely fish and all sorts of crustaceans, not marine mammals, which were always scarce due to biological restrictions of a certain type !? By the way, I almost do not eat fish, in any form of preparation a couple of tens of grams every six months is not consumption ... therefore I can be registered in the sect: "fish protectors" !!! lol So, that is not the same example ... for the global biosphere, again we do not catch it everywhere, but it tends to migrate over the entire area of ​​different water areas of the World, and the accounting of reserves there, only in theory is accurate, almost !!!
            1. Usher
              Usher 8 October 2021 00: 51
              0
              Well, how would the system live with these missing millions, now, someone is missing something. And so on along the chain. We just don't see the end of the chain of destruction yet.
  11. Pavel57
    Pavel57 7 October 2021 19: 57
    +1
    Quote: Baron Pardus
    Damn, is it hard to find a picture of Junkers or Henkel? The photo with the caption as "The Luftwaffe consumed beznin" - Italian 3-engine bomber, like CM79.

    Ju-52 was three-engined.)))
  12. Grossvater
    Grossvater 7 October 2021 19: 58
    +1
    Steal a box of vodka, sell, drink money!
    The very idea of ​​binding carbon dioxide is sound. Only one little thing gets in the way. The Law of Conservation of Everything Except Money request ... It is impossible to split a chemical compound and spend less energy in this process than in its reverse synthesis. In other words, when dividing that carbon dioxide into carbon and oxygen, that water into hydrogen and oxygen, even under ideal, unrealizable conditions in practice, the same amount of energy will be spent as then released during the combustion of carbon, hydrogen and their compounds.
    Point arrived.
    In general, if not hysteria, then alternative sex, sorry, alternative energy sources have a right to exist.
    Just don’t try to put them on what they don’t fit.
    1. helloween
      helloween 7 October 2021 20: 47
      -1
      Technology does not stand still. And the process of creation goes by leaps and bounds. Only in the Russian Federation they do not want to think about it. How much and what did Chubais come up with with his nanocenter? Virtually nothing. Only pulled money from the budget
      And about the expenditure of energy - not quite so. Garbage is burned with gas in Sweden. So, the energy released in this process is much more than spent. At one time, the Swedes even thought about buying garbage in neighboring countries.
      1. Grossvater
        Grossvater 7 October 2021 21: 51
        +5
        Oh my God! It can not be. Can not! By the law of nature! Remember Lomonosov's grandfather at last!
        There was no need to skip school. Sorry! It is necessary to take for the calculation not the energy released during the combustion of gas and used to intensify the combustion of garbage, but the energy spent on the manufacture of this very garbage! Then everything will come together. Well, read, please, at least the textbooks for the seventh, eighth grade!
        1. helloween
          helloween 17 October 2021 16: 12
          0
          https://tass.ru/obschestvo/4285030
          Especially for a smart guy like you. Read it, grow wiser
        2. helloween
          helloween 17 October 2021 16: 15
          0
          Now the country burns more than 2 million tons of its own waste. And local raw materials are not even enough - the deficit has to be covered by imports. In 2015, for this purpose, the country additionally imported more than 1,3 million tons of waste from abroad - mainly from Norway, Ireland and the UK.
        3. helloween
          helloween 17 October 2021 16: 16
          0
          So read your textbooks yourself. I hate the failures of those stuck in the Khrushchev era. These are the ones who form patriots like Rogozin.
      2. Usher
        Usher 8 October 2021 00: 13
        0
        Quote: helloween
        Technology does not stand still. And the process of creation goes by leaps and bounds. Only in the Russian Federation they do not want to think about it. How much and what did Chubais come up with with his nanocenter? Virtually nothing. Only pulled money from the budget
        And about the expenditure of energy - not quite so. Garbage is burned with gas in Sweden. So, the energy released in this process is much more than spent. At one time, the Swedes even thought about buying garbage in neighboring countries.

        Are they burning? Where is the waste and emissions? Also to neighboring countries)
        1. helloween
          helloween 17 October 2021 16: 14
          0
          https://tass.ru/obschestvo/4285030
          Read it. There are answers to your questions. And yes - Sweden is already making money by buying garbage from other countries.
    2. citizen
      citizen 7 October 2021 22: 15
      0
      Quote: Grossvater
      In other words, when dividing that carbon dioxide into carbon and oxygen, that water into hydrogen and oxygen, even under ideal, unrealizable conditions in practice, the same amount of energy will be spent as then released during the combustion of carbon, hydrogen and their compounds

      So and what is wrong. You store energy from renewable sources in fuel, that is, fuel is a battery. It is clear there will be losses, as they are now.
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. bk0010
    bk0010 7 October 2021 21: 15
    0
    However, for this, it is necessary to introduce additional taxes on fossil fuels, so that it will rise in price to the required level. Under such conditions, synthetic kerosene will become competitive and attract investors.
    Bastards.
    1. Grossvater
      Grossvater 7 October 2021 21: 51
      0
      So it is in this that the whole tsimes!
  15. Black Colonel
    Black Colonel 7 October 2021 22: 49
    0
    The Germans have recently mastered a new dance - the rake dance. They do not repent in any way, everyone strives to be left without energy. The state district power station was closed, the nuclear power plant was closed. It remains to leave the planes without fuel.
  16. Sergei Khukharev
    Sergei Khukharev 7 October 2021 23: 03
    -3
    Man in his element and all his plans are aimed at how to spoil himself and nature. Can you imagine what would happen if everyone was to extract carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and hydrogen from water? Trees left without carbon dioxide will not be able to photosynthesize and grow, wither and die with all the ensuing environmental problems. After hydrogen extraction, water will be supersaturated with oxygen, the strongest oxidizing agent. If excess oxygen enters the atmosphere, then its increased concentration will lead to diseases and death of many living creatures and organisms.
  17. Gembyh124
    Gembyh124 8 October 2021 07: 03
    0
    It seems that just for the German aviation, fuel from natural oil was required
  18. YOUR.
    YOUR. 8 October 2021 09: 54
    0
    The ability to produce "ersatz-gasoline" was one of the factors that gasoline engines were installed on German tanks of that time. The production of such diesel fuel in those days was much more expensive.
  19. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 8 October 2021 12: 46
    -1
    Atmostar believes that the new synthetic fuel will become economically viable in the future. However, for this, it is necessary to introduce additional taxes on fossil fuels, so that it will rise in price to the required level. Under such conditions, synthetic kerosene will become competitive and attract investors.

    The market will regulate itself. © laughing
  20. Vitaly Chernichkin
    Vitaly Chernichkin 9 October 2021 07: 38
    0
    A very strange article. I'm not ready to argue, but 10 years ago I read Kuptsov's book The Strange History of Small Arms. The author claimed that for the production of 1 ton of synth. gasoline required only 3 tons of coal. Of these, 2 tons were used to heat up the hydrolysis process. And in 1 ton of gasoline there will be 1300 liters. The article says that after World War I Germany produced little synth gasoline, and in fact, under the terms of the peace treaty, she was obliged to supply synth fuel to Anglib and France. And the size was not small. So it produced enough. Well, the author of the article shyly kept silent about the reasons for the ban on the production of synth gasoline in defeated Germany. It turns out that the cost of 1 liters of gasoline is equal to the cost of 1300 tons of coal. Become think disinformation
  21. Gunter prereen
    Gunter prereen 10 October 2021 08: 51
    +1
    The capitalists will introduce another tax on fossil fuels. And they will broadcast about caring for nature and ecology, filling their own pockets.
  22. kamakama
    kamakama 11 October 2021 13: 12
    0
    If we distract from the specifics, then all this is sucking on forms of energy conservation. Oil, timber, coal - preserved the energy of the past. Wind, hydro, sun - the energy of the present, a free flow, so to speak. And these comrades simply propose a new method of conservation, not in pumped storage power plants, or in chemical accumulators. It has been read and recalculated many times that hydrocarbons are the most efficient way of energy storage in terms of mass / volume to generated energy at the moment of technological development. Nuclear power is even cooler in theory, but taking into account biosecurity, it is far behind, especially for small consumers
    And the ways of generating these hydrocarbons can be different. Now we are in the energy sector at the same level as the fishing industry - yes, you can still catch wild crops (direct catch), but fish farms do exist and work. In this sense, pumping oil will be identical to harvesting wild plants - it is possible, but why, when the fields are sown? It's just not clear when this transition will be made.
  23. alien308
    alien308 15 October 2021 22: 45
    -1
    Ban the author. Illiterate copywriters in the furnace.