A processor with increased resistance to cyber attacks has been created in Russia

The Avtomatika concern, which is part of the largest Russian state corporation Rostec, has created the Elbrus-2C3 processor with increased resistance to cyber attacks. It is provided by the secure computing technology used in the device.

The main feature of the developed microcircuit is the optimal combination of power and cost. It is supposed to be installed in laptops, on-board and industrial computers, as well as in monoblocks.

The microprocessor contains two computing cores. In addition, it has two graphics cores for 2D and 3D computer graphics. It also provides data output to three independent monitors with a resolution of up to 4K. The device is made on the 6th generation Elbrus crystal. It is small in size and consumes little energy, which is facilitated by the use of energy-saving technology.

On the basis of this microcircuit, they have already begun to develop laptops, monoblocks and tablets. The manufacturer assumes that large state and commercial companies with increased requirements for information security will be interested in this technique. The manufacturer is not yet talking about how relevant such a processor can be for the "regular" market, whether it will be able to withstand competition in it.

Comments

[Antokha]

the Elbrus-2S3 processor with increased resistance to cyber attacks was created. It is provided by the secure computing technology used in the device.

And there is essentially nothing more news.

[Undermine]

A processor with increased resistance to cyber attacks has been created in Russia

Good developments are also able to create something in Russia-the USSR .. But with the introduction and patents, there are always problems, well, except for the military. For a long time there has been chatter about this, but things are still there But this concerns the state security system!

[Orange bigg]

Well, why? They promise to implement it next year.

.It is indicated that "Skif" is the fourth generation of mobile processors "ELVIS". However, the company calls it the first Russian low-power processor for mobile devices and the first domestic world-class mobile processor. The test boards provided to the partners run under the Alt Linux operating system with the preinstalled My Office domestic office software package.

It is assumed that pre-production tablets based on the new chip will appear by May-June next year. True, there is no talk of entering the mass market yet. The chip is expected to create tablet computers for schools, hospitals and other government agencies.

... Research and Production Center "Electronic Computing and Information Systems" (SPC "ELVIS") announced the start of mass production of a new mobile processor "Skif". First of all, it is intended for use in tablets and has already been transferred for testing to software developers and equipment manufacturers.
Skif (for the global market - Scythian) is part of the Multicore line. This is an ARM chip made using a 28nm process technology. It includes four Cortex-A53 cores operating at 1,8 GHz, but the manufacturer plans to overclock to 2,0 GHz. The built-in GPU is capable of handling 4K / 60 fps images, is compatible with HEVC / H.264 codecs and supports GLONASS / GPS / BeiDou / Galileo navigation systems.

https://4pda.to/2021/09/13/390481/skif_pervyj_rossijskij_mobilnyj_protsessor_mirovogo_urovnya/

Certainly not the A-15 Bionic, but it will do for a start.

[mitroha]

It is supposed to be installed in laptops, on-board and industrial computers, as well as in monoblocks.

I suspect that it meant "household", not airborne. Correct

[KAV]

Before writing on the topic, I want to say that I am very close, by the nature of my activity, to the development, production and use of processors in the Russian IT sector. But, except as empty PR, I cannot call this article.

Elbrus-2S3 processor with increased resistance to cyber attacks was created

Sorry ... But, the processor cannot protect against cyber attacks, due to the properties of its application / development. To protect the processor from cyber attacks, the processor must have the properties of at least antivirus + firewall + a lot of extra things (it's pointless to list all types of cyber attacks). Which is completely unreasonable for the primary purpose of the processor, and, accordingly, its production.
Next.

The microprocessor contains two computational cores.

And here it suddenly becomes not a processor, but a microprocessor. Which is also very interesting. But, yes, not the point. What's more interesting is that it only has 2 cores. So what is the beauty of this development? Is it really just that this is our domestic processor, with backward technologies, which are now trying to light up wherever possible? Although, of course, they tried to promote it before. But, it was not very successful. Apparently, like now.
Next.

In addition, it has two graphics cores for 2D and 3D computer graphics. It also provides data output to three independent monitors with a resolution of up to 4K.

So is it a central processing unit, or is it a graphics processor? Also, as it were, things are completely different.

The manufacturer has not yet said how relevant such a processor can be for the "regular" market, whether it will be able to withstand competition in it.

And he won't. Because, they cannot withstand competition.

[Shahno]

Anyway. Do you really want to convey something?

[Errr]

Quote: KAV

Sorry ... But, the processor cannot protect against cyber attacks, due to the properties of its application / development. To protect the processor from cyber attacks, the processor must have the properties of at least antivirus + firewall + a lot of extra things (it's pointless to list all types of cyber attacks). Which is completely unreasonable for the primary purpose of the processor, and, accordingly, its production.

To dispel your doubts, you just need to look at the page of the processor in question on the MCST website:

Features of "Elbrus-2S3":
- The original architecture of Elbrus, providing high performance in mathematical calculations, cryptography, digital signal processing.
- Hardware support for secure computing. Separate call stack for information security benefits.

http://www.mcst.ru/elbrus-2c3

[KAV]

Quote: Herrr

To dispel your doubts, you just need to look at the page of the processor in question on the MCST website:

I will use your excerpts.

Quote: Herrr

Features of "Elbrus-2S3":
- The original Elbrus architecture, providing high performance in mathematical calculations, cryptography, digital signal processing.

So original? Is it exclusively of its own design? Can I refer to TU and OKR and so on?

Quote: Herrr

- Hardware support for secure computing. Separate call stack for information security benefits.

Here it is clear what this is about. But, just not about protection from cyber attacks. What do "secure computing" and "information security benefits call stack" mean? To me, this is akin to "safe breaths of purified air." Marketing is stupid, and nothing more.
The processor does what it is instructed to do. He doesn't do anything else. There are highly specialized systems that deal with data protection, protection of unauthorized access, protection of industrial espionage, protection against DDOS attacks, protection against phishing, etc. etc. But, these are systems, not a processor. By itself, a processor cannot be robust or unstable to cyber attacks.

[mitroha]

Can I refer to TU and OKR and so on?

Here it is clear what this is about.

Excuse me, but besides your beliefs and desires, do you have any other counterarguments? I saw nothing but water

The processor does what it is instructed to do

Does the processor do what it is instructed to do? You may have put it wrong?

[usr01]

H. KAV!
Written accurately and to the point !!!
But the "cons" you grab a lot ...
It is not clear for non-specialists - it means "minus" !!!
Do not be discouraged - "the majority is not a guarantee of making the right decision" (c)

[poquello]

Quote: usr01

But the "cons" you grab a lot ...
It is not clear for non-specialists - it means "minus" !!!

He is clearly not an expert, colleagues, probably a system administrator?

[standan]

Written by a person who knows nothing about IT technologies

[Shahno]

Well yeah, don't ask
It seems that the guys on the internet have read something.

[ja-ja-vw]

Quote: KAV

To protect the processor from cyber attacks, the processor must have the properties of at least antivirus + firewall + a lot of extra things (it's pointless to list all types of cyber attacks)

definitely pointless.
WHY TO "INSERT" something into the PROCESSOR, if the software shell and the "guards" on the ports of access to the PC will do it perfectly?
And the "wired" antivirus will not save, but how to "sew"

Quote: KAV

firewall

into the processor? ....
A riddle for me.
What "hardcoded" will override the out-of-order execution mechanism? Let it be blocked
retrieving data from protected areas of memory. But productivity immediately collapses.
or will it "analyze" the duplication of processor pipeline elements? How? What powers does it use?
======================
Why fence a garden with firewalls and antiviruses on a crystal?

Quote: KAV

And here it suddenly becomes not a processor, but a microprocessor.

so he 2 core highly integrated microprocessor general purpose and embedded video encoding / decoding units, 3D accelerated graphics controller

/ here you can stick a minibar /

It has an optimal balance of computing power and cost, resistance to cyber attacks due to the availability of secure computing technologyand the special Russian architecture "Elbrus".

took into account the type
TLLeed
attacks on L1, L2 and LLC caches, protection, for example, Intel CAT. But, the trouble is there are special-purpose caches, in particular, the TLB cache, which stores the results of translation of memory addresses.
NetCAT (CVE-2019-11184) disable DDIO mechanism
PlunderVolt (CVE-2019-11157) local only, "verified" highest level of access to the operating system
Side-channel attacks (this is a sore processor)
Side-channel attacks - both software products (for example, OpenSSL and Keyczar) and hardware were found to be vulnerable.
Fault Based Attack
Reading residual information - information is restored from uncleaned microstructure buffers.
/ although it is not clear how to tie it to the architecture of Elbrus
It seems to me that the members of the sect of "those who have no analogues in the world" are again "curing"

[vargo]

What "hardcoded" will override the out-of-order execution mechanism? Let it be blocked
retrieving data from protected areas of memory. But productivity immediately collapses.

Yes, it was somehow discussed, I remember. For the sake of a profitable solution for the security of the processor, there is a minus in that the percentage spends more time on it, which affects performance compared to similar solutions in other architectures. But recently I watched a transfer about him, it was noted there that such losses are leveled by the great convenience in parallelizing computational threads. That is, it is easier to build parallel computations on it than on analogs. This performance gain is significant for a number of systems and server solutions. And a big bonus in terms of security gives even more advantages for the same server systems, as well as solutions for building supercomputers on its basis. There are also solutions for storage systems. There, these prots are very useful.

As for the described protection systems, I will not say anything. I'm not so deep into the topic. But from what I remember in the explanations, many systems are largely due to the architecture itself and its features. That is why this architecture has great potential in terms of development.

[ja-ja-vw]

Quote: vargo

And a big bonus in terms of safety gives even more advantages for the same server systems as well as solutions for building supercomputers on its basis

Have you read how they position this processor?

Concern "Avtomatika" of Rostec State Corporation presented at the international military-technical forum "Army-2021" first computer based on the Russian processor "Elbrus-2S3", designed for mass use in the regulated market in the lower price segment... The solution has high performance with small dimensions, provides high information protection due to the Russian development of computing cores and meets all the requirements for Russian products

.
https://rostec.ru/news/avtomatika-predstavila-pervyy-byudzhetnyy-kompyuter-na-baze-protsessora-elbrus-2s3-/
Which server? what are you talking about?

Quote: vargo

many systems are largely due to the architecture itself and its features. That is why this architecture has great potential in terms of development.

can be transferred to my level? it's hard for me to comprehend ...
/ well, not Klitschko came here to see the light ...

[vargo]

Which server? what are you talking about?

They see themselves primarily in the field of server solutions, since Elbrus is originally a supercomputer processor. Naturally, on its basis it is easier and more optimal to assemble server solutions, but not only them. Entering the mass market is now a prospect for them in the coming years. They will come to him too. In the fragment you cited, the "regulated market" is indicated, that is, in terms of state purchases. sector. There, obviously, ordinary workstations are also needed, where Elbrus also goes. Instead of one article, listen to the main company that produces processes. They describe in much more detail all their perspectives, tasks and goals.

[poquello]

Quote: ja-ja-vw

took into account the type
TLLeed
attacks on L1, L2 and LLC caches, protection, for example, Intel CAT. But, the trouble is there are special-purpose caches, in particular, the TLB cache, which stores the results of translation of memory addresses.
NetCAT (CVE-2019-11184) disable DDIO mechanism
PlunderVolt (CVE-2019-11157) local only, "verified" highest level of access to the operating system
Side-channel attacks (this is a sore processor)
Side-channel attacks - both software products (for example, OpenSSL and Keyczar) and hardware were found to be vulnerable.
Fault Based Attack
Reading residual information - information is restored from uncleaned microstructure buffers.
/ although it is not clear how to bind recourse to the architecture of Elbrus
It seems to me that the members of the sect of "those who have no analogues in the world" are again "curing"

This software patch is difficult to fence, but in the same Intel with amd it was a bug or the idea was - to understand the command to extract, but did not understand - the new versions of the brands are left with an old hole?

[ja-ja-vw]

Quote: poquello

but did not understand - the new versions of the brands are left with the old hole?

Well no. Almost everything is already decided
I was just trying to "throw my brains out" of what the PR specialists of Rostec were piling up on security.

[poquello]

Quote: ja-ja-vw

Quote: poquello

but did not understand - the new versions of the brands are left with the old hole?

Well no. Almost everything is already decided
I was just trying to "throw my brains out" of what the PR specialists of Rostec were piling up on security.

correctly piled up, if there was a hole in the brands - you need to promote your advantages, and there are no guarantees from bookmarks in new models of brands

[Pvl_1]

Quote: KAV

But, the processor cannot protect against cyber attacks in any way, due to the properties of its application / development. To protect the processor from cyber attacks, the processor must have the properties of at least antivirus + firewall + a lot of extra things (it's pointless to list all types of cyber attacks). Which is completely unreasonable for the primary purpose of the processor, and, accordingly, its production.

Technically speaking, this processor is better protected from frequent classes of attacks. For example, from an attack due to a buffer overflow in the stack, where it would be possible to replace the return address of a function. Such attacks in Elbrus in protected mode are much more difficult to carry out, therefore it is considered more secure.
Yes, it is not absolutely secure (because it is fundamentally impossible), but it is more secure than Intel, ARMs and the like. Well, it seems like it is being certified in Russia on the topic of information security.

Quote: KAV

And here it suddenly becomes not a processor, but a microprocessor.

Quote: KAV

So is it a central processing unit, or is it a graphics processor? Also, as it were, things are completely different.

If you were really close to this topic, questions would not arise ...
Now the concepts of "processor" and "microprocessor" are practically interchangeable, since processors that are not in the form of microprocessors are practically not used (at least in civilian life). And so the microprocessor is one of the types of processors.
And if you were interested in the processors used in mobile devices (smartphones, laptops, tablets, etc.), you would find that almost everywhere there are both CPU and GPU on the chip.

Quote: KAV

What's more interesting is that it only has 2 cores. So what is the beauty of this development? Is it really only that this is our domestic processor, with backward technologies, which are now trying to light up wherever possible?

If you go to the site about Elbrus, you will find that this is a development for mobile applications. And to measure the number of cores, there is Elbrus-16S.

Now about the obsolete technology and competitiveness.
It is almost impossible to develop a new, so technologically advanced, competitive product from scratch. It is necessary either to pour in a ton of money, enticing specialists from wherever possible (the path of China), or to inject the same ton of money for 20 years, raising their own specialists (which actually happens with Russia, adjusted for the lack of funds). I will add a picture from the article about the cost of developing a new processor:

That is, to develop a processor with a 14nm technical processor now, you need to heap $ 300 million. On R&D projects on the current Elbrus-2S3, 12C and 16C processors, they spent less, if anything (EMNIP is about 200 million). Why then be surprised that they are a little behind in performance? It is lucky here that they are so little behind ...
Well, the pricing for processors is such that the smaller the batch, the higher the unit price. Because the cost of making masks for production is large and spread over the batch size.
And without the help of the state, it is still impossible to cope with this: you need sufficient demand to first reduce the price of one processor to an acceptable level, and then try to catch up with the tops. That is, to achieve some kind of competitiveness by off-market methods, and then try to survive in the market.

[vargo]

I think you are simply not very familiar with the peculiarity of the architecture of the processor itself. It provides more reliable computing from the outset. A number of common vulnerabilities of existing architectures known to us are not initially possible in Elbrus. Now I don’t remember all the details, I just remember how specialists who were much more knowledgeable than me explained to me. Already, at least in this, the processor is more reliable and better protected from some of the common methods of cyberattacks. This is indirectly the "cyber-resistant" one. Obviously the same.

So is it a central processing unit, or is it a graphics processor? Also, as it were, things are completely different.

Have you ever seen a central processing unit with an integrated graphics core?

And he won't. Because, they cannot withstand competition.

And who said that they climb into the ordinary market. I think there are no fools there, although they offer solutions, they are still in a very high price category. Now there is a program for import substitution of products. And from this year, the products supplied to government agencies should already have a processor developed in Russia. This in itself will spur demand for these processes. And as you probably know, the larger the batch, the cheaper the production. So the competition is not about him, now no one is trying to get involved. Articles like this are meant to attract attention. This is a reminiscent type of advertising, when society is accustomed to the fact of the existence of products.
If you work in this area, then in general you should have understood all this, or at least be interested in the status of developments. But something I am already beginning to doubt in your first lines.

[poquello]

Quote: KAV

I am very close, by occupation, to the development, production and use of processors

not noticeable, not at all

[AVA77]

Neither these electricians can do it as normal, there is no antivirus + firewall + a lot of things
And yet there is no scanner, laser printer, radio and vagina for safe sex.

[standan]

Before writing on the topic, I want to say that I am very close, by the nature of my activity, to the development, production and use of processors in the Russian IT sector

That is, you have not heard about chips with integrated graphics, which have been produced by Intel and AMD for 10 years. Apparently your occupation relates to sawing the dough at tenders, in some subcommittee.

And here it suddenly becomes not a processor, but a microprocessor. Which is also very interesting. But, yes, not the point. What's more interesting is that it only has 2 cores. So what is the beauty of this development?

Explain to me the difference between a processor and a microprocessor. Doesn't it confuse you that the same INTEL and AMD are still producing dual-core processes?

And he won't. Because, they cannot withstand competition.

How do you know? Won't your subcommittee pass?

[Piramidon]

Quote: Mitroha

I suspect that it meant "household", not airborne. Correct

Is there no computer technology on board the aircraft? It belongs to the ON-BOARD equipment. It is written separately about household items

The manufacturer has not yet said how relevant such a processor can be for the "regular" market, whether it will be able to withstand competition in it.

[mitroha]

That's what, and the lack of intelligence in hamsters never ceases to amaze ...
For understanding, "Onboard" is industrial, including the military, for the military-industrial complex-military-industrial complex, and household are civil. And judging by the meaning of the sentence

It is supposed to be installed in laptops, on-board and industrial computers, as well as in monoblocks.

meant - "laptops, household and industrial computers, as well as in monoblocks.
But it's hard for minus hamsters

Quote: Piramidon

onboard

I didn't mean you as a hamster, didn't see the answer but the rest of my objection is correct

[ja-ja-vw]

Quote: Mitroha

That's what, and the lack of intelligence in hamsters never ceases to amaze ...

of course household

The central processor microcircuit K1891VM068 is a 6th generation Elbrus system-on-chip with built-in 2D / 3D graphics and video accelerators and a peripheral interface controller. Small size and low energy consumption suitable for desktop and mobile personal computers, thin clients, industrial automation and embedded systems.

ONBOARD ELECTRONIC COMPUTER

-complex electron. will calculate. and software devices with a single control installed on board a moving object (aircraft, ship, spacecraft, missiles, etc.) for solving automation problems. management of both the object itself and its technical. means in accordance with the given. algorithm.

https://encyclopedia.mil.ru/encyclopedia/dictionary/details.htm?id=3701@morfDictionary
"Onboard" is
onboard computer EA2170
EA2171 dual-processor on-board computer

O25 processor module
Microprocessor K6-II
All this under the control of OS INTROS-V, MSVS 3.0 and QNX
======================
Elbrus has no place on board

[mitroha]

Thanks for clarification

[KCA]

The USSR did not recognize the patents of Western countries in general, they, accordingly, did not recognize the patents of the USSR, stole EVERYTHING from each other that they could reach

[ja-ja-vw]

Quote: KCA

stole from each other EVERYTHING they could reach

it is always more profitable to slam than to invent yourself.
This is the norm.
the USA has an advantage: they have created such a system, conditions, social structure, standard of living (no matter how, let's leave it out of the brackets: what they "steal", buy brains.

[knn54]

Anton. It is the knowledge of the processor architecture that allows hackers to do their job. A panacea is a chip that periodically rebuilds the internal architecture so that the cracker cannot determine the parameters he needs. The disadvantage is a slight loss of performance.

[bk316]

Anton. It is the knowledge of processor architecture that allows hackers to do their job

Come on. Give at least one example of a hack using the internal architecture. All hacks are at the levels of the command system and above, and the higher the more often.

[Genry]

Quote: bk316

Give at least one example of a hack using the internal architecture.

Vulnerabilities Meltdown and Specter (I'm not talking about stack overflow) are just a consequence of architecture errors and have nothing to do with the command system. And with the constancy of the command system, they (vulnerabilities) are fixed when the next generations of kernels are released.

[bk316]

I am silent about the stack overflow

You do the right thing and keep quiet because the stack overflow has nothing to do with the processor architecture.

Meltdown vulnerabilities

You do not quite understand me. When I wrote the example about registers, this is just a Meltdown vulnerability. Of course it is caused by an architecture bug. Yes, that's just to use it you need to know not the architecture but how the OS works. That is, hacking takes place using the features of the OS implementation, and not in any way by the processor architecture.

[Genry]

Quote: bk316

Stack overflow has nothing to do with the processor architecture.

Let's just say, not in architecture, but in its implementation.
If you have hardware interrupt counter control for this situation ...

Quote: bk316

But just to use it, you need to know not the architecture, but how the OS works. That is, hacking takes place using the features of the OS implementation, and not in any way by the processor architecture.

Vulnerabilities in the processor architecture provide a hacking toolkit: we can read and write where it is not supposed to (in an ideal processor, you are deprived of this opportunity).
And the OS is already the application object of this toolkit.

And without the knowledge of hammer and nails, you won't be able to nail anything.

[bk316]

And without the knowledge of hammer and nails, you won't be able to nail anything.

Why did it happen?
I was taught programming from hardware. Six months of programming in source codes on a model processor. Then six months of assembler, then a year's course in architecture, and only then Fortran. This is even before Moscow State University. At the university, the same thing + an annual special course in VLSI design.
I strongly support your approach, BUT.
Now this is not the case, guys who write antiviruses and deal with information security in the widest range of tasks , the command systems do not go below.

[KCA]

The architecture of the processor cannot be changed in any way, what are you talking about? There is architecture, these are transistor junctions drawn on a silicon wafer in the number of under and for a billion pieces, how will you change them? Change the command system of the processor? It is also impossible, just to create a virtual environment around the instruction system, because processor instructions are built on the basis of an architecture that is in silicon and which cannot be changed, somehow

[Reklastik]

An architecture is a set of processor instructions.

[KCA]

Architecture is a collection of transistor junctions and other electronic components of a processor or any microcircuit, do not cast a shadow over the wattle fence if you don’t know, but processor commands are such a simplified name that has nothing to do with semiconductors, this is how a signal (1) or not a signal (0) will be perceived by a set of transistor transitions, where to redirect

[seregatara1969]

We almost broke our heads here reading this. Architecture - as we understand it, this is a construction site, buildings, streets and roads inside a crystal. Teams run through them, completing tasks.

[Pvl_1]

If you look in textbooks or on the same wikipedia, you will find two different definitions:
1. Instruction set architecture (ISA, abbreviated as "architecture") is a set of data types, operations and characteristics of the programmable part of the processor core. That is, in fact, these are available commands and how they work with memory. In the context of the discussion, the architecture is called "Elbrus" and already has a 6th version.
2. Microarchitecture is the model, topology and implementation of ISA on a chip. Specific solutions for ISA implementation are already described here. For example, the number of pipeline stages, the next or out-of-order execution of commands. Well, and further down to the level of the valves.
You described the microarchitecture in your comment.

[Reklastik]

You confuse and cast a shadow over the fence and it is clear that you do not know. This is indicated by the confident, I would even say, categorical tone of your answer.

[Region-25.rus]

An architecture is a set of processor instructions.

then why is it measured in nanometers? Is the length of commands with a fixed length of 5 nanometers?

[El Chuvachino]

Nanometers measure process technology, not architecture

[Region-25.rus]

Nanometers measure process technology, not architecture

and not the length of the commands ... if you know what I mean. Do you even know how to read apart from the first three words?

[El Chuvachino]

Perhaps I misunderstood what you wanted to express.

[Reklastik]

Well, what is a technical process?

[Reklastik]

No, it has never been measured) In nanometers, the geometric dimensions of the constituent parts of the transistor are expressed, say, the length of its channel, or its gate ... This refers to the "topological norm". Not architecture.

[Region-25.rus]

In nanometers, the geometric dimensions of the constituent parts of the transistor are expressed, say, the length of its channel, or its gate.

Well, that's how I would like to convey)))

[Genry]

Quote: KCA

Change the command system of the processor? It is also impossible, just to create a virtual environment around the command system, because the processor commands are built on the basis of the architecture,

By changing the microcode, you can change the command system. There were viruses that "poisoned" the processors.

Also, some processors have hardware translation of machine code, which allows you to execute a programmed instruction set.
So "Elbrus" with 2 or more cores can execute AMD-64 command system (if necessary - any) and fully execute Windows OS. In this case, one core performs this translation, and the other - execution.

[KCA]

I very much even swim in specific definitions, a friend who worked at MCST conducted an educational program for me, so he was a programmer and mathematician, but he also found a throwaway from SUN and a throwaway from the chief, Babayan, when he collected all the developments and calmly became a citizen of the United States, apparently , not the poorest

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Quote: knn54

Anton. It is the knowledge of the processor architecture that allows hackers to do their job. A panacea is a chip that periodically rebuilds the internal architecture so that the cracker cannot determine the parameters he needs. The disadvantage is a slight loss of performance.

This is too cool! Knowing the internal structure of the processor can help to hack the latter in a hardware way, but to implement it, you need access to it your loved one. Or a hardware bookmark in the associated equipment. With an integrated approach, this is difficult.
Basically, the system is hacked remotely and using software. Here knowledge of the processor is not a panacea.

[ja-ja-vw]

Quote: knn54

Anton. It is the knowledge of processor architecture that allows hackers to do their job

Well, I give you "architecture": what anyone can get, hack

Quote: knn54

A panacea is a chip that periodically rebuilds the internal architecture so that the cracker

it's like?
chip:
- physically solder contacts?
- changes the "firmware" of the processor?
- mixes the address space of the task?
why a special "chip" for this:

?

[Grandfather]

The Avtomatika concern, which is part of the largest Russian state corporation Rostec, has created the Elbrus-2C3 processor with increased resistance to cyber attacks. It is provided by the secure computing technology used in the device.

why such pathos ... eh ...

[Orange bigg]

I did not see pathos here. I am glad that at least something is being done in this direction.

[Grandfather]

Quote: OrangeBigg

I did not see pathos here. I am glad that at least something is being done in this direction.

yeah .. the key "at least something". at the level of Africa ... "great blinded power." Did you not have enough "Chubais iPhones"?

[mitroha]

Quote: Dead Day

yeah .. the key "at least something". at the level of Africa ... "great blinded power." Did you not have enough "Chubais iPhones"?
Reply

You can't even imagine what nonsense you are talking about ... No offense, but you shouldn't blame what you don't understand

[Okolotochny]

There is such a Creed - to carry nonsense. He drank a glass, drank two, and there was a noise in my head.

[sniperino]

Quote: Mitroha

do not blame what you do not understand

If performance is measured by gagging, then understanding is optional.

[I am not a robot]

do you think you don’t need to do something?

[Shahno]

It is not that simple. Mass implementation requires additional funds, and the decision was made about this.

[Petro_tut]

Yeah, and they will do it again in Taiwan ... Some kind of donut hole ...

[Artyom Karagodin]

In Taiwan, everyone makes their own processors. It is possible to build a plant in Russia, but you need to have something to load it with. They will begin to rivet "Elbrus" and "Baikals" in large quantities - the question of setting up production in our territory can be raised.

[Petro_tut]

You can build a plant in Russia,

As old Müller said, what two know, the pig knows, so there can be no talk of any security in production outside the Russian Federation!

[Genry]

Quote: Petro_tut

there can be no question of any security in production outside the Russian Federation!

If the processor has no architectural vulnerabilities and has its own "layout" of photomasks, which you can easily check for a crystal produced outside of the Russian Federation (against the introduction of bookmarks), then you can fight "like a fish on ice" but you will not be able to hack the working system (program errors - this is separately).

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

In Taiwan, everyone makes their own processors. It is possible to build a plant in Russia, but you need to have something to load it with. They will begin to rivet "Elbrus" and "Baikals" in large quantities - the question of setting up production in our territory can be raised.

Artyom completely agrees. There is an interesting segment of the economy - government agencies. In most cases, a PC is a typewriter. If you create your own good-quality office for it, at the level of at least Word, Excel, Exess - 97, then you can massively introduce them into government organizations. The main thing is that they support internal workflow, text, mathematical editors and database systems. In fact, this is enough.
And then there will be money for the production and development of domestic electronics.

[KCA]

Have you seen Intel or AMD made in USA? I never, although I sold more than one thousand, AMD, at the dawn of my activity, sold German ones, from Dresden, they had some fab there then, but these were the first-borns, DX4, then FSE, and Intel and AMD were only yellow, The exception was the Intel series from Costa Rica, well, the fact that Apple is completely from Southeast Asia, I think you know, is curious, the iPhone has half the msx from Gnusmas, the main competitor, although the processor still does TSMC, like Elbrus, if cho, we are right on an equal footing with Apple, we order processors at the same factory, world leaders

[Petro_tut]

https://3dnews.ru/1049870/intel-nachala-stroitelstvo-dvuh-zavodov-po-proizvodstvu-chipov-v-arizone-na-nih-budut-realizovani-peredovie-tehprotsessi

[KCA]

AND? After construction, they hope, they will compete, aha, and TSMC will sit on the priest and wait for the intel to overtake them, the intel will burrow in the USA, as before, in the chips of network cards and, at most, in the south bridges, and even then the question is, Do they work without liquid cooling, and the processors will the Chinese (Taiwanese) do

[El Chuvachino]

TSMC is building itself a large factory in the USA, by the way

[KCA]

It has been negotiating for about a year now, but is not building anything, but will build, who will own the plant? I’ll bet 10 kopecks that some Chinese millionaire, a member of the CCP, but this self-indulgence, well, never stuck into the UWB to build something, go bow dead town Deathroit, direct former world industrial leader, Silicon Valley? Fuflo, pumping candy wrappers, all the resources of the valley make up a maximum of 1 / 1000000 of any startups that crash today / tomorrow, there is little real working money, even Skolkovo has not received state grants since the 15th year, but it climbs, the profit grows

[sniperino]

Quote: KCA

I bet 10 kopecks that some Chinese millionaire, a member of the CCP, but it’s self-indulgence, well, I never stuck into the UWB to build something

Especially now that the US is directly threatening China.

[Petro_tut]

I wanted to write this, but you got ahead

[Petro_tut]

Intel saw, did not buy amd even once
I can't reset the photo, the computer has been in a dump for two years

[KCA]

Well, I do not completely exclude stones from the USA, if there is a special buy there, the likelihood is higher, but they did not reach Russia, I swear straight, except that I have never seen Intel chips on network cards on Made in YUSA chips

[sniperino]

Quote: KCA

did not reach Russia

In the 90s, I bought a second-hand Compaq laptop 286 made in GB, but did not pay attention to the processor; hardly made in England.

[Engineer]

According to the official Intel website, the company has 15 factories for the production of wafers themselves. What is a wafer need to be explained?
Of these in the USA:
Chandler, Hudson, Rio Ranch, Hillsborough

[KCA]

I’m not going to invent, I just looked in the bins, kore2duo - malaya, amd x64 made in malaya, I don’t want to take off the radiator and read into the working computer, but there will clearly not be made in yusa, faba, hrenaby, you can build, but will they place orders for them? Who in their right mind will order, well, at least Elbrus in the USA, when in Taiwan it is three times cheaper, such tax legislation

[Engineer]

You have an original approach to judge the total Intel capacity by the availability of products in your warehouse
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/global-manufacturing.html
Here is the geography of their production.
1.Stones are produced in the states.
2. Intel does not currently have a manufacturing facility in Taiwan.

[Victor Tsenin]

What cores, what architecture, what video core? Maybe in the future it is possible to reveal the subject in more detail, apply some comparisons? Somewhat scanty, but, in any case, the notification about almost dead domestic microelectronics pleases!

[Pvl_1]

Kernels of our own design.
Elbrus architecture of the 6th version.
I don't know about the video core, unfortunately. Was not interested.

[zenion]

The most important thing is that he understands between the alphabets. Even if you write in Russian, he will deduct that he is a spy. The reason is that now they do not write in Russian without errors. To write the way those who graduated from high school now write, they need to pass the exam, no one abroad knows how to pass it. A highly encrypted OGOAGA exam.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: zenion

Whatever write as those who have finished now write high school you need to pass the exam

That is, you specifically write with errors, so that not only everyone could understand you, but only those who passed the EGE OGA, then leave with everyone, extinguish?

[kig]

Quote: zenion

now those who have finished high school you need to pass the exam, no one abroad knows how to pass it.

And indeed .... it turns out that those who propose to remove the exam are the hidden enemies of the people

[yfast]

It is provided by the secure computing technology used in the device.

I wonder how it is? If you exclude calculations in advance, then this is a step back.

[Pvl_1]

This book contains some information as of 2013:
http://www.mcst.ru/files/511cea/886487/1a8f40/000000/book_elbrus.pdf#page=99
To put it very briefly: in the program, each pointer turns into a descriptor, according to which the hardware checks memory accesses during program execution - if the bounds of the allocated memory are exceeded (information about the boundaries is stored in the descriptor), then the apparatus raises a panic. And if anything, the exit or the possibility of going beyond the bounds of the allocated memory is one of the most common vulnerabilities of system-level programs (written in C, for example).

[prior]

Elbrus is not that safe. The other day 5 people froze to death there.
In general, news from the category of models and single samples, such as Armata.
If the microprocessor is for the military, it's better to keep quiet about it.
If for civilians, then everything with a pitchfork on the water.

[bk316]

In general, news from the category of models and single samples, such as Armata.

They have already riveted tens of thousands of processors of this family. Maybe hundreds already ...

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Quote: prior

Elbrus is not that safe. The other day 5 people froze to death there.
In general, news from the category of models and single samples, such as Armata.
If the microprocessor is for the military, it's better to keep quiet about it.
If for civilians, then everything with a pitchfork on the water.

It is still a long way to the citizen, but where necessary such machines appear. Just yesterday on Linux I helped to search as an album document, to expand it as a book document. Found nothing.

[Grandfather]

Quote: prior

Elbrus is not that safe. The other day 5 people froze to death there.
In general, news from the category of models and single samples, such as Armata.
If the microprocessor is for the military, it's better to keep quiet about it.
If for civilians, then everything with a pitchfork on the water.

such a chuyka that I will die with AMD ...

[ZAV69]

Read better the primary sources before writing nonsense. There are already a lot of completed projects on Elbrus. For example, the passport database lives on the Elbrus 4c servers, it's kind of like the 3rd generation yet. Now they are already supplied on the basis of Elbrus 8C and deliveries are beginning on the basis of Elbrus 8SV. State services run on servers with Elbrus, the MFC in the Oryol region work on Elbrus. Yes, full of projects. And storage for state purchases is now only on Russian processors according to the law. And you say layouts ...

[_TANKIST_]

What nonsense. And here such parameters as performance + cost and the so-called "cyber attacks". Crack addicts, do you at least understand what you are writing? related processes. Regarding the processor "Elbrus" - low-performance scrap metal is not able to come close even to the Chinese counterparts, what can I say ... The author of the article, stop smoking, you know what ...., well, or you don’t know)))

[sniperino]

Quote: _TANKIST_

And here such parameters as performance + cost and the so-called "cyber attacks".

Have you studied the speed reading technique?

The Avtomatika concern, which is part of the largest Russian state corporation Rostec, has created the Elbrus-2C3 processor with increased resistance to cyber attacks. It is provided by the secure computing technology used in the device.

[_TANKIST_]

Far from it, it is the human technique that distinguishes INT from ReAL. Learn the mat part, instead of trusting mediocre scribbles. Publishing such opuses is like advertising for soap, where they write on the label that the soap is Antibacterial, cool yes))).

[Dzafdet]

In relation to Elbrus, the word budget always cuts the ear. With such a price, it is far from budget!

[Alex_Bora]

Yes, that's not true, very budgetary, already several times:
1. The development budget was! Was!
2. Were there any subsidies from the budget for incentives? Well, for sure!
3. Its implementation will be in budget projects (MO, projects of federal structures with the requirements for the use of domestic element base).

As much as three times the budget

[ZAV69]

Quote: Alex_Bora

As much as three times the budget

not budgetary, but for a regulated market.

[p0pulivox]

The fact that the processor is created is undoubtedly good. The bad news is that all this is still "catching up" ...

[Chief Officer Lom]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

In Taiwan, everyone makes their own processors. It is possible to build a plant in Russia, but you need to have something to load it with. They will begin to rivet "Elbrus" and "Baikals" in large quantities - the question of setting up production in our territory can be raised.

From the series - and the grapes are green! As far as I know, Soviet microelectronics has been multiplied by zero practically absolutely, so it will no longer be possible to create modern production on its basis. And what is being printed now - on the old "western" equipment 90nm, which we were allowed to buy, and they are not going to sell something more modern, therefore we create only architecture. Not only Elbrus and Baikaly can be riveted, but also auto electronics and so on, and state protectionism has not been canceled, and it is unlikely that Taiwan will dare to refuse US supplies at the request of Russia, but on the contrary - easily. If we were able to master the production (printing itself, not architecture) thinner than 90 nm - I will be glad to hear.

[SokolenK0]

Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

In Taiwan, everyone makes their own processors. It is possible to build a plant in Russia, but you need to have something to load it with. They will begin to rivet "Elbrus" and "Baikals" in large quantities - the question of setting up production in our territory can be raised.

And if you create your own good-quality office for it, at the level of at least Word, Excel, Exess - 97, then you can massively introduce them into government organizations. The main thing is that they support internal workflow, text, mathematical editors and database systems. In fact, this is enough.

There is already such an office, this is MyOffice, solid and well-made, and it is already being implemented with us by Rosatom, for example https://www.rosatom.ru/journalist/news/rosatom-vybral-vendora-rossiyskogo-ofisnogo-softa/, or Gazprom https://www.cnews.ru/news/top/2020-08-12_gazprom_vpervye_zakupilsya

I found out about them not so long ago, the other day I read about an update, they are developing rapidly https://biz.cnews.ru/news/top/2021-09-22_gigantskoe_obnovlenie_rossijskogo

[opuonmed]

Elbrus 8sv must be driven to the masses! but for the laptop, and these will go! the processors are good!

[ZAV69]

Military review has broken the bottom !!!! There is no other way to say. What the hell is Rostec? What the hell is Automation? The developer of the Elbrus MCST processor. Reprinted in Taiwan. 2С3 engineering samples are still available, batch of 8СВ is received. Want up-to-date information - read the MCST website, read the MCST and Gorshenin channels in the telegram. All news THERE.
Lazy journalist wrote do not understand why and dumped on the site. SHAME

[opuonmed]

you are wrong development in the Russian Federation is going on and you can print a crystal in Taiwan like all Intel AMD developers and other players! oh yes it doesn’t mean you will delve into the topic! we in Russia seem to want to build a plant, but it will cost over doher! I will reassure you when printing a crystal, not any bookmarks you can not shove DK processors are developed in the Russian Federation !!!!! just nowhere to print here and print in Taiwan order! print crystal and design it this with everything else

[ZAV69]

Well, actually there is a plant, even 2 pieces. One 90 nans, the second 65 can. And they will build more. It doesn’t matter that the overhead is fucking, it’s a matter of national security, money will be found for this. Now a new lithography technology is being developed, it seems that they have been talking to bring it to mind for 3 years. There will be a new plant for it. By the way, half of the world is still being printed in Taiwan. After the demonstrative flogging of the Huawei by Uncle Donald, many thought about their production. There, Uncle Liao already has 28 nanans and promises soon 14, and so that there was something to print in a naglyak, he bit off a piece of arm, although the latest developments could not be snatched.
In general, there is no point in reading about this on VO, you have to go to profile channels and from there to habr. In this issue, the bottom has broken, it’s necessary to write such a blizzard, they were too lazy to read the sources

[75 Sergey]

How about Snapdragon 888?

[Private SA]

Quote: Anton

It is provided by the secure computing technology used in the device.

What is "secure computing"? Calculator at the adding machine in Los Alamos
I made a safe calculation for the residents of Hiroshima by calculating the capture cross-section
a neutron nucleus of an atom U-235? And for the US Marines, who on the islands most
Japan planned to land?
Yes, the processor does not give a fuck, processing digital command codes, and for "cyber resistance",
and the security of computing. Whichever command I received, that I executed, if not defective.
Let Kaspersky Lab deal with cybersecurity, FSB,
and the processors (expensive and braking) have nothing to do with it.
An article - boltology from "effective managers", defective in knowledge.

[Pvl_1]

I already wrote a little higher, I will duplicate here about protected mode:

This book contains some information as of 2013:
http://www.mcst.ru/files/511cea/886487/1a8f40/000000/book_elbrus.pdf#page=99
To put it very briefly: in the program, each pointer turns into a descriptor, according to which the hardware checks memory accesses during program execution - if the bounds of the allocated memory are exceeded (information about the boundaries is stored in the descriptor), then the apparatus raises a panic. And if anything, the exit or the possibility of going beyond the bounds of the allocated memory is one of the most common vulnerabilities of system-level programs (written in C, for example).

And let me explain: this allows you to catch some vulnerabilities in executable programs, which makes them harder to crack.
Although this protection is not absolute.

[Private SA]

Quote: ZAV69

not budgetary, but for a regulated market.

And by whom regulated ??? Market or ...

[ZAV69]

This is the name of those who are now allowed to buy only Russian prots

[75 Sergey]

Well, someone will answer with what it can be compared from the "famous" imported .... at least in the past?
All pancakes are so smart - resistor / transistor + architecture, but they can't help to suggest that we understand where we are .... or you don't know yourself?

[ZAV69]

Quote: 75Sergey

Well, someone will answer with what it can be compared from the "famous" imported .... at least in the past?

That's when it appears in people on tests and then we will find out how it is. And right now, why bother to hammer, There are only engineering samples of the chosen ones.

[km-21]

At first glance, it can be compared to Western models about ten years ago. But in reality, the situation is somewhat worse, since Elbrus does not have the market prospects that contributed to the rapid development of bourgeois processors. Therefore, Elbrus will have to develop only at the expense of state support. However, it will continue to evolve, as without its own processor it is impossible to avoid technological dependence on competitors. And this is a matter of strategic importance.

[sledak]

I read everyone, I understood about architecture, I suspected that it was a la building or a city - bridges-roads, a construction of transistors in one word.
I also realized that VO is really bad with the filter of materials, you can't relate to your audience from the series "people grabbing" ...

[czes]

"a processor with increased resistance to cyber attacks" - what kind of nonsense?

[Private SA]

Quote: 75Sergey

Well, someone will answer with what it can be compared from the "famous" imported .... at least in the past?
All pancakes are so smart - resistor / transistor + architecture, but they can't help to suggest that we understand where we are .... or you don't know yourself?

We're in the ass. As in the jokes about "Designers of the plant mailbox such and such,
developed a new integrated circuit with eight legs and two handles for
carrying from place to place. "And about the visit of the Japanese delegation to the USSR radio plant:
"We thought that you were 20 years behind us, but we saw that forever ..."
And resistors, transistors (especially IGBT structures) do not gobble up. Necessary
radio electronic elements.

[km-21]

Quote: KAV

By itself, a processor cannot be robust or unstable to cyber attacks.

Maybe. For example, if I use someone else's processor, then it will certainly contain someone else's bookmark that can spy on my computer in favor of someone else's developer. But if I use my processor, then only my bookmarks can be present in it, which will not spy on me if I do not want to.

[Metallurg_2]

The manufacturer has not yet said how relevant such a processor can be for the "regular" market, whether it will be able to withstand competition in it.

Absolutely not relevant - modern toys will not pull. And ordinary yuzver chasing pebbles mainly by this criterion.

[Private SA]

Quote: Pvl_1

in a programme

Do not confuse the concept of "program" and technical device on the topic of the article. Can be in the structure
Anything you want with a step of nanometers to be sprayed on a Si crystal. If money for the plant
enough for the production of microprocessors.

[Private SA]

Quote: km-21

For example, if I am using someone else's processor,

And how can you get to someone else's (for example, mine) processor from Intel?
Without breaking a window glass and stealing a computer case if I have it on purpose since 2012.
did not connect to the network. Here I am on the forum with more or less clean programs
I balak my laptop.

[Alex_Rarog]

Damn, honestly, I would even stupidly take a computer based on Elbrus or Lake Baikal for the sake of interest ... in Linux there is nothing terrible as frightening users. There, everything has long been solved in a couple of clicks.

[vadimtt]

So easy, $ 3000 and it's yours, with $ 2 Core100Duo performance
The problem is in the mass character, or rather in its absence. Without solving this problem, Elbrus is a special calculator and nothing more.