Military Review

How the Anglo-Saxons fought the Normans

83

Becoming



Hereward was born in about 1036 to the Anglo-Saxon nobility of Lincolnshire.

The time frame of Hereward's life and career is somewhat ambiguous, but individual well-documented incidents provide a kind of reference points that allow us to reconstruct a fairly accurate picture. According to some texts, he was kicked out of the family home in 1054, at the age of seventeen or eighteen, for violent behavior.

The young man spent the next decade as a mercenary, first in Cornwall and Ireland, then in Flanders. For most of this time, he was accompanied by two cousins, Siward Blond and Siward the Red, as well as one of his father's servants, Martin Lightfoot.

In Flanders, where he arrived in the early 1060s, Hereward achieved considerable fame as a warrior, both in campaign and in tournament matches. He then first served Bishop Litbert Cambrai: a document dated 1065 attests to nine armed men, including Miles Herivwardi as the prelate's bodyguard. He subsequently served Baldwin V, Earl of Flanders, as a mercenary and instructor officer. Among other places, he was in the city of St. Omer, where in the winter of 1065-1066 he married Turfried, the daughter of a wealthy local merchant.

Hereward stayed in Flanders until the end of the summer of 1067, until the death of Baldwin V, then he decided to return to England, where the Normans systematically strengthened their positions. He traveled with Martin Lightfoot as his only companion, leaving the two Siwards in Flanders to defend Turfrid.

Whether the move was motivated by concern for his family or self-interest remains a mystery.

Most likely, Hereward hoped that the Normans would lift his parents' ban on the control of the family's lands. However, this hope was soon dashed.

Arriving - presumably early in 1068 - in England incognito, he found that his family estate was occupied by the Normans. After thirteen years abroad, Hereward - now a hardened bearded man in his thirties - was unrecognizable to the local population. He spent the night at the home of Osred, a former soldier and tenant of his father, who spoke of the hardships and ill-treatment suffered by the Anglo-Saxon population.

The Normans arrived at Hereward's estate just a few days ago. When they occupied it, they demanded that Hereward's mother hand over the family treasures to them, and they brutally treated her when she refused. The entire Hereward family was killed.

Learning about everything, Hereward at night in full military attire decided to single-handedly reclaim the estate. Fortunately for him, he was guarded by about fifteen Normans, who decided to celebrate the acquisition of such a good estate. Having dealt with the half-drunk warriors, Hereward hung their heads over the gate as intimidation.

The birth of a rebellion


News of this spread quickly. Neighbors and relatives flocked to Hereward to greet and praise him. He selected 49 of the best fighters from among his relatives and his father's tenants and organized them to defend the estate from the expected retaliation of the Normans.

Hereward himself, with a few men, quickly moved to attack the small Norman troops encamped in the nearby estates. Within a few days, the surviving Normans fled the area, fearing a general uprising.

Hereward's actions were well received by the Anglo-Saxon population. More and more male farmers, displaced persons, outcasts flocked to him every day. Soon after realizing that his right to lead a fighting squad could be challenged due to lack of status, he asked the abbot of the nearby monastery of Peterborough to officially knight him. Abbot Brand (sometimes referred to as Hereward's uncle) performed the ceremony at the abbey chapel on June 29, 1068. At the same time, two of Hereward's best sub-leaders - named Winter and Gaenoch - were also knighted by a monk from the Benedictine monastery of Ely.

Hereward's next major step was the targeted assassination of Frederick, brother of William of Warren, one of the most powerful Norman lords.

Frederick led the Norman efforts to hunt down Hereward. His publicly supported plan was to either bring the rebel leader before the king for punishment, or simply kill him and expose his head at the crossroads.

Hereward learned that Frederick was staying in Norfolk, where he awaited intelligence of the mutiny. In order to quickly deal with him, he led a small mounted assault group to Norfolk. Penetrating into the fortress of the Normans, he personally defeated Frederick.

Realizing that this murder would only strengthen King William's efforts to eliminate him, Hereward ordered his people to disperse, and he sailed to Flanders. His stay there did not last long, and at the beginning of 1070 he returned to England, bringing with him not only Turfrida and his cousins, but also a number of knights and retinue. Surprisingly, he found his estate untouched. A group of his fighters quickly emerged from cover, explaining that the rest of the forces were spread out more widely.

By this time, Hereward's forces included a large number of battle-hardened knights, as well as a peasant militia.

When word of his return spread, Hereward received a summons from Thurstan, abbot of Ely Abbey. Situated on a large, elevated island in the swampy countryside of eastern England, the abbey was in a very defensive position, unsuitable for operations by Norman cavalry or armored infantry. The monks had already fortified the island to prevent the installation of a new Norman prior, and now they offered the island to Hereward as a base.

Accepting the offer, Hereward sent his men to Bardney, Lincolnshire, and headed upriver to the marshes. Meanwhile, Count Wilhelm of Warrennes had succeeded his brother Frederick as head of the effort to track down Hereward.

After receiving intelligence about the rebels' plans to redeploy, he deployed units along the route that Hereward was to follow. However, Hereward's scouts defeated several Normans and learned of the Count's location.

The next day, Hereward, accompanied by several men, appeared on the banks of the river opposite William's position. When the Earl learned of the approach of Hereward, he became enraged, ordering his men to swim across the river and capture the criminal. Waiting for a Saxon ambush, the soldiers refused. Wilhelm and his warriors had to flee.

Raid in Peterborough


From their base in the swamps, the rebels waged many devastating campaigns - sometimes with the Danes - combining attacks on military targets with plundering of Norman cities. From time to time, the rebels have resorted to a scorched earth strategy, burning entire villages to prevent them from being used by the enemy.

The main target of the attacks was the former English estates and abbeys, which were captured by the Normans. The most famous such operation was the attack on the monastery of Peterborough in June 1070.

According to old texts, the newly appointed Norman prior began distributing church lands to the knights in exchange for their promise to join the hunt for Hereward. In a rage, Hereward ordered a full force attack on the fortified abbey and the nearby city of the same name. Expecting strong resistance, Hereward invited the Danes to join the operation. Embarking on ships, the warriors sailed straight up the River Nene at Peterborough.

Having set the city of Peterborough, as well as the monastery buildings, on fire, the attackers captured the defenders and deprived the abbey of all values. Hereward intended to kill Abbot Thurold, but he and his men fled.

What happened next remains controversial.

According to some texts, Hereward had a vision of Saint Peter, who ordered him to return the sacred artifacts or die a painful death. Duly impressed, Hereward and his men submitted to this threat.

According to other texts, the Danes went by sea with treasures, leaving Hereward and his people alone. The second version seems plausible as subsequent events no longer reflect the Danish presence.

The siege of Ely and the end of the rebellion


Furious at the failure of his subordinates to curb the rebels, King William decided to take matters into his own hands.

According to sources from those years, he sent large forces to the village of Aldret. The village was located in the narrowest gap between land and Ely Island, where the swamp was only four furlongs, or about 800 meters in length. The king ordered his men to build a floating bridge from logs tied to inflated sheep skins. When the armored Norman infantry passed over the bridge, it collapsed. More than half of Wilhelm's people drowned before his eyes. Alarmed, he returned to the siege of the island, placing the remaining men in a ring around the swamp to prevent raids by Hereward's troops.

Wilhelm's next strategy was to build a stone and timber dam across the swamp. Raised bastions for catapults and siege engines were erected on the dry shore to provide shelter for engineers. When the Normans finally prepared to attack across the completed dam, the Anglo-Saxon troops approached their positions through the swamp, wading quietly and keeping only their heads above the water.

As the Normans began to cross, Hereward's men lit fires on the leeward side of the dam. The thick smoke confused the attackers. Many lost their support, fell off the dam and drowned. Other retreating Normans stumbled upon a group of Saxon archers waiting for them, who hacked them to death.

The second time, Wilhelm was forced to retreat.

Realizing that Eli was almost impossible to storm without heavy losses, the king tried new tactics.

Announcing his intention to punish the abbey for supporting the uprising, he seized all the lucrative lands that the abbey owned outside the island of Ely. The trick worked.

While Hereward was raiding, the abbot and a delegation of monks sought out the king and offered to lead his people through the swamps if their lands were returned. One monk hastened to warn Hereward, who went with several hundred people to the wildest parts of the marshes. From here he continued his guerrilla war, constantly changing location, becoming more desperate and ruthless in his struggle.

The king, for his part, first called on the Anglo-Saxon militia to help track down the rebels.

At this time, the envoys of Elfreet, the widow (or ex-wife) of the Norman Count Dolphin, turned to Herewardau. A rich widow praised him for his military prowess and offered to marry if he would reward her for making peace with the king.

Perhaps Hereward was tired of the war. He probably realized that it was only a matter of time before the better organized Normans would destroy him and his people. In any case, Hereward agreed, exiled Turfrida to the monastery and sent messengers to the court. The king welcomed his opponent with open arms, inviting him to court and granting Hereward's petition to restore his family's lands.

Hereward eventually urged his people not to harm the Norman soldiers and made peace with the king.

According to sources from those years, about five percent of the Anglo-Saxon nobility, after years of resistance, nevertheless reconciled with the new regime and, in turn, were accepted into the new Anglo-Norman ruling class. Some have even risen to positions of power, reflecting the Norman desire to pacify and rule the country rather than waste resources fighting endless insurgencies.
Author:
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  1. Proxima
    Proxima 12 October 2021 04: 41
    +9
    ... about five percent of the Anglo-Saxon nobility, after many years of resistance, nevertheless reconciled with the new regime and, in turn, were accepted into the new Anglo-Norman ruling class.

    And, accordingly, the English language began to form slowly. Let me remind you that the Normans spoke a dialect of French. Interestingly, at first, English was considered the language of commoners, the nobility was embarrassed to speak this negative "vile" language. All this continued with varying success until the time of Shakespeare ... recourse
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 October 2021 05: 26
      +12
      Well, Foggy Albion is no stranger. Before that, the Saxons and Angles themselves invaded Britain, even earlier this feat was repeated by the Romans, and before them the Celts.
      So modern English is still a hodgepodge! However, we also call cow meat "beef"!
      Another thing touched me. It is sad that the respected author refuses the human Russian language in his works. Not an article, but a set of standard cliches "ordered to attack decisively", etc.
      I do not scold the Author at all, it is not too much to write beautifully, but I think if we make the presentation of thoughts more accessible and simpler, it will be much more interesting and exciting to read.
      Dogs. What is the rider in the title picture?
      1. Proxima
        Proxima 12 October 2021 06: 13
        +11
        However, we also call cow meat "beef"!
        What confuses you in this term? request "Govedo" has an Indo-European root, to which the Slavic language group belongs. In this sense, the term has been preserved in many Slavic languages ​​- Bulgarian, Serbian, Slovenian, Czech ... That is, the Russian language has not borrowed this word from anyone No.
      2. Undecim
        Undecim 12 October 2021 07: 18
        +11
        What is the rider in the title picture?

        This is the hero of the article - Hereward the Wake. Painting by the English artist Gerith Wanderside.
        1. Crowe
          Crowe 12 October 2021 08: 11
          +12
          The pretentious nickname "The Wake", meaning "Awakener" in Middle English, he received much later. During his lifetime, he was more often called the "Tramp" or "The Exile."
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 12 October 2021 08: 18
            +13
            During his lifetime, he was often called the "Tramp" or "The Exile"

            And during his lifetime he was often called Hereward the Outlaw - "Bandit".
          2. Maki Avellevich
            Maki Avellevich 13 October 2021 06: 57
            0
            Quote: Crowe
            Pathetic nickname "The Wake", in Middle English meaning "the Awakener"

            as an option.
            at the same time it can be understood as, awakened, awakened, shaken off ignorance.
      3. vladcub
        vladcub 12 October 2021 08: 44
        +9
        Namesake, I have a feeling that this is a retelling from a foreign language.
        Another time I take an overseas dedy, and there is such a "furious" syllable - a craftsman translated, but there is a high-quality retelling. For example, V. O has a quality style.
        This is the reasoning of a couch linguist
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 12 October 2021 08: 32
      +8
      "English is formed" actually English is based on Old German. Linguistics is a whimsical thing.
      For myself, I imagine this picture: once there were a couple of languages ​​from which all other languages ​​"grew"
      1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
        Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 12 October 2021 11: 36
        +9
        Alas, English was based on other languages. There are good university textbooks by Yartseva and Smirnitsky on the history of this language. Here are just the book of the author Rastorguev I do not advise - the author is similar to Fomenko or Klesov.
      2. Fat
        Fat 12 October 2021 20: 41
        +3
        hi Slav. Modern English is a wild porridge of a bunch of languages ​​... But the language took shape a long time ago. And the spelling is unchanged for 500 years. The French Revolution gave impetus to a single French standard ... And in Britain and its colonies ... There was stagnation. that's why we write Liverpool - we read Manchester ... Old German may be similar to English ... Especially in the north-west ... But they scattered very much ...
        Well, about a couple of languages ​​- generally ... the language in Europe was most likely one with a bunch of dialects. Indo-European languages ​​(rare obsolete Japhethic languages ​​- from Japheth) are the most widespread language family in the world. It is represented on all inhabited continents of the Earth, the number of speakers exceeds 2,5 billion. According to the views of some modern linguists, it is part of the macrofamily of Nostratic languages. <....> The term Indo-European languages ​​was first introduced by the English scientist Thomas Jung in 1813. In German literature, the term Indo-Germanic languages ​​(German indogermanische Sprachen) is often used. Sometimes earlier Indo-European languages ​​were called "Aryan", but now this term refers to a subfamily of Indo-European languages, including the Nuristan branch and Indo-Iranian languages.
        You can, of course, develop the topic further ... But I understand Old English more or less, and Old German with huge strains. Easier with the legacy of the Latins, that is, the Romans ...
        As for Zyryan's syllable ... Well ... thanks to him for the raised topic - interesting. But on the campaign, he did not really pump the topic and did not understand much in linguistics - he translated poorly - all the time he is in a hurry somewhere request
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 13 October 2021 16: 34
          +1
          I know that modern English devil cooked. But modern Russian is also different from the Russian times of Yesenin, and even more so Karamzin.
          About 1 or 2 proto-languages. You can interpret it this way, or it can be different. We, with all our desire, cannot refute or prove. Digging too deep
        2. Esoteric
          Esoteric 13 October 2021 19: 21
          0
          Can you read Beowulf in the original? If yes - then take off my hat to you!
          1. Fat
            Fat 13 October 2021 20: 45
            0
            hi If I find it on the net, I will definitely try it.
            It can be very, very useful ... drinks yes
            1. Esoteric
              Esoteric 13 October 2021 21: 03
              +1
              I think you will like it
              1. Fat
                Fat 13 October 2021 23: 26
                0
                Bro, couldn’t it be shorter? There are Norman songs in my collection ... Well, at least "drink some cider". The narrow-minded people call the song either the IRA anthem, or the anthem (translated into German) the Luftwaffe ... And it was written in the 30s of the last century by a couple of peasants from Normandy ...
                And the language is alive! yes
  2. ee2100
    ee2100 12 October 2021 05: 18
    +10
    A legendary figure in the history of England.
    Where is the truth and where is fiction. Who knows?
    The Hereward Line has not yet been interrupted. Sir Hereward Charles Wake, 15th Baronet, 1952 He has a son, John Hereward Wake (1978).
    1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
      Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 12 October 2021 11: 39
      +8
      Like their King Arthur! However, this is not our country and their tales are their tales. After all, we with our Ilya Muromets cannot figure out whether this is a real comrade or not quite, that is, absolutely. Right?
      1. ee2100
        ee2100 12 October 2021 12: 05
        +8
        Probably, as elsewhere, there were real prototypes. And their deeds, with the help of folklore, turned into fabulous. Hareward is said to have been the inspiration for Robin Hood and one of Tolkien's characters.
        In one of the videos, Pyzhikov examines Russian epics, not in the form of their "fabulousness", but as a tradition of history. A very interesting approach.
      2. vladcub
        vladcub 12 October 2021 15: 35
        +5
        It is believed that Ilya Muromets is a real person. But we don't know his youth.
        Nightingale the Robber Odekhmantiev's son was probably such a "naughty" in those places. Even at the beginning of the 19th century, such Odekhmantiev's "children" were "naughty" near the capital, and after the GW there were still many similar ones. So, Ilya Muromets could well swing with such a "rascal"
      3. Andrey Chizhevsky
        Andrey Chizhevsky 12 October 2021 16: 05
        +5
        In the Kiev Lavra lie the relics of a monk who in worldly life was called Ilya, nicknamed Muromets. So this is a real person.
        1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
          Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 13 October 2021 08: 48
          -2
          Some of my ancestors along the line of my mother from the villages of Karacharovo and Panfilovo (now Panfilovo is included in the urban area of ​​Murom) of the Murom district of the Vladimir region, where our Ilya Muromets is from. This was a really real person with real exploits and service with the Kiev prince (for Vladimir or not - that's another question). So, twenty years ago, my family was given a DNA test and then some were given some kind of certificate that they are descendants of I.M. If you want specific people, then these are Fokichevs Vitya and Zoya; they are relatives to me. So, the fairy tale turned out to be the most real reality.
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 12 October 2021 06: 32
    +14
    Hmm, another translation from Google into Russian? smile Where did the author get these "extracts"? The author took advantage of the fact that in Russia the name of Hereward is almost unknown? The author would google "Guest Hereward", read it. I do not argue that many events are embellished in this work, but the main historical outline is not broken, although the dates are constantly diverging. Based on the reasons I would write an article, it would be much more interesting than what is presented. Who is interested in this character, I can add that Hereward existed, this is evidenced by data from the "Book of the Doomsday." It is known, thanks to information from this book, that after the Norman conquest, the population of England in 1086 was 1,5 million people. Among them lived a certain Hereward, who owned the flaxes near the city of Peterborough.
    Py.Sy.Take the "piano" from the "musician".
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 12 October 2021 07: 21
      +15
      Take the "piano" away from the "musician".
      Better a piano lid on your fingers!
      1. Crowe
        Crowe 12 October 2021 08: 27
        +16
        "You angry, I'll leave you" will say the author, whose articles will then be discussed .. I try not to shoot the pianists, but sometimes I also grumble, it happens ..
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 12 October 2021 08: 33
          +13
          whose articles will then be discussed
          Normal authors, not shameless copy-pasters.
    2. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
      Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 12 October 2021 11: 40
      +9
      Yes, I agree, the article is clearly translated, and, possibly, from several languages!
  4. Crowe
    Crowe 12 October 2021 06: 39
    +15
    The timeline for Hereward's life and career is somewhat controversial.
    Why, they wrote about the guy not so long after his death, thirty years later (maybe a little more), many still remembered him, and the priest Leofric (who was in charge of the Old English language) with his friend, his monk Richard (this was a translator into Latin) everyone listened to it quite attentively and wrote it down in great detail. By the way, if anyone is interested: "Gesta Herewardi" (The Acts of Hereward) has been translated by many and many times and everyone can choose an acceptable and digestible style of translation for reading.
  5. Crowe
    Crowe 12 October 2021 06: 44
    +13
    Hereward was born in about 1036 to the Anglo-Saxon nobility of Lincolnshire.
    Hereward was born in 1035 in the east of England in Lincolnshire, in its southwestern part. Chroniclers describe him as a lively boy with a handsome face and long blond hair. The latter is quite possible, since the Saxons preferred just such haircuts. He was strong in body, but overweight, and in character he looked more like a bully. The fact that Hereward existed is evidenced by data from the "Book of the Day of Judgment." It contains data on all the people who lived on the island and their property. This was the first global population census in the history of the Middle Ages. Thanks to the information from the book, we know that after the Norman conquest, the population of England in 1086 was 1,5 million people. Among them lived a certain Hereward, who owned the lands near the city of Peterborough. Little is known about his parents. Historians only know that the future bandit was from a noble family. According to one version, Hereward's father was none other than Leofric, an Anglo-Saxon earl who ruled in the territory of the abolished kingdom of Mercia. Who is this, you ask? Does not matter. You have hardly heard of him. But you almost certainly know Hereward's mom. Her name was Godiva. After Leofric raised taxes for the townspeople, she suggested weakening the levies, to which her husband said: "Before you will ride naked in Coventry, than I will change my mind." Then the woman asked the townspeople to stay in their houses, so as not to dishonor her with glances, then she saddled a horse and rode through the streets of the city in negligee. This legend, at least in part, is remembered by many. She, of course, is a fiction, and the real Godiva from Coventry became famous for her kindness to the poor and the church. By the way, there was an article by Vyacheslav Olegovich about the Doomsday Book, if anyone remembers, two or three years ago!
  6. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 12 October 2021 08: 03
    +13
    According to the text of the article, the actions of Hereward resemble the actions of some kind of robber, and not the leader of the national liberation front of the Anglo-Saxons. smile Incidentally, Pink Floyd's composition "Let There Be More Light" contains references to Mildenhall, the US Air Force base in Great Britain, and to Hereward.
    1. Crowe
      Crowe 12 October 2021 08: 20
      +13
      resemble the actions of some robber
      And who he actually was - an exile, a robber and a mercenary ... And he became the "leader of the national liberation front" largely based on personal motives - in September 1067 he returned to his homeland and learned that his father's lands were seized by a certain Baron Frederick, and Leofric himself is killed. Later, local Carls informed Hereward that his younger brother had also died three days earlier. While trying to protect his mother, he hacked to death two Normans, after which he was beheaded. In general, the path of Hereward Wake recalls the stories from the life of our more famous robber - Robin of Locksley!
      1. Daniil Konovalenko
        Daniil Konovalenko 12 October 2021 08: 34
        +12
        But all these are legends, epics, folk art about Hereward, if we come to the realities, then what is really established is that at the beginning of 1070, the fleet of the Danish king Sven Estridsen, who tried to challenge Wilhelm's rights to the English throne, settled on the island Or, and Hereward took refuge with the Danes and raided with Danish support. And as soon as Sven and Willie settled their financial differences, the Danes left. They threw Hereward, like the Americans, the Afghan government. And then again the legends went.
    2. Xlor
      Xlor 12 October 2021 08: 54
      +12
      Anglo-Saxon National Liberation Front

      It was, rather, a front for the liberation of their estates and privileges ...
  7. Undecim
    Undecim 12 October 2021 09: 11
    +13
    In general, such articles should not begin "from around the corner", but be accompanied by at least a short introduction, so that the reader understands why this or that character "got into history."
    Until the XNUMXth century, no one except historians knew about Hereward in England.
    And then Victorian England needed national heroes to illustrate the idea, which became popular in society, that traditional English freedoms were destroyed by the Norman invasion. Something like England We Lost.
    And Hereward came in handy, and Charles Kingsley's 1865 novel
    Hereward Wake: The Last of the British put Hereward on the pedestal of a national hero.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 12 October 2021 09: 33
      +12
      SUCH articles shouldn't start at all!
      1. ee2100
        ee2100 12 October 2021 13: 16
        +7
        Hello Anton!
        What's so evil-aggressive in the morning? drinks
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 12 October 2021 14: 01
          +8
          Hello Alexander!
          Tell me, how long did it take you to write an article?
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 12 October 2021 14: 31
            +8
            Depends drinks yu. About the Rakor battle from understanding the correctness of the conclusions to writing about 5 years. And so a couple of months. Fastest about the last relic.
            Since the spring there has been a desire to write about the settlements of Estonia and since the summer about the uprising of St. George's Night. In principle, there is material, but there are also doubts.
            I understand what you are driving at. And we have already discussed this, I respect all colleagues on this site. But someone is leaving the room.
            It's like in life - not every day brings us joy! I take this philosophically drinks
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 12 October 2021 14: 40
              +8
              But someone is leaving the room.
              This someone else wants to raise the dough for his hack!
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 12 October 2021 14: 47
                +8
                I'm not sorry!
                Sometimes it looks like this:

                But still more often like this:


                I hope I learned everyone laughing
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 12 October 2021 20: 37
                  +4
                  I'm sorry! To the rage. You know, I have enough of such freeloaders in the professional sphere, but when such a creature tries to infiltrate my hobby, I have a lycanthropic crisis.
                  1. Fat
                    Fat 12 October 2021 21: 01
                    +4
                    hi Uh-huh, Anton ... Either flesh, or blood, so that the rest of the "fur and trim" ... But we must restrain ourselves ... The moon comes and goes, but you always want information ... crying
                    Here you have something to share, and you save everything. And Zyryanov fills the gap between worthy articles with his crafts ...
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 12 October 2021 21: 32
                      +3
                      Zyryanov bug, eaten by the last lame dog from the hunting pack of Guillaume Bastard is not worth it! You also need to be able to "work on support". This torso just wants a dough out of nowhere.
                      1. Fat
                        Fat 12 October 2021 21: 54
                        +3
                        Well, not given! Life is not ice to me either, but my conscience does not allow me to push a surrogate. That is why ... You have your own theme in which you are like a fish in water, I have my own, Nikolai has my own ... Others have their own trick. But since Vladimir is "not in the subject" of the published isho, no one has ever been IMHO.
                        I don’t know (and don’t want to know) how Zyryanov is monetized ... His troubles and ...
                        Nikolay, even though he publishes timidly, And we are all going to share the accumulated ... Although you have already, if not confused, noted good reports?
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 12 October 2021 21: 58
                        +2
                        Was not noted, worked as a photographer at Shpakovsky.
                      3. ee2100
                        ee2100 12 October 2021 22: 08
                        +3
                        Detailed!
                        Come on, write, we have already discussed the topic!
                        And the photos are beautiful with girls and fish!
                        Somewhere Dima (Richard) disappeared. I don't write to him in PM, but maybe someone will say something.
                        In short, make it better and more beautiful.
                      4. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 12 October 2021 22: 16
                        +4
                        Didn't work part-time! Ask any author, he is always ready to help with photographs in St. Petersburg. "Bezvozmezdno, that is, for free" (C)
                      5. ee2100
                        ee2100 12 October 2021 22: 17
                        +3
                        No offense! We are always, if that!
                      6. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 12 October 2021 22: 32
                        +3
                        No offense!
                        And in my thoughts was not! You see, in this regard, Bar1 is much closer to me than Zyryanov. Although Timur lives in one of the worlds of folk history, he reads something, explores something, to the best of his perception and beliefs. Zyryanov is similar to the "shoulder" under Kingissep.
                  2. Catfish
                    Catfish 12 October 2021 22: 45
                    +4
                    Hi Sasha!
                    Dima is not up to us now, he has a lot of work with his own house: water supply, sewerage, in general, everything is in a heap and needs to be done before winter. And so, he had ideas for articles above the roof. He offered me to do this, but my laziness was born before me. request
                  3. ee2100
                    ee2100 13 October 2021 02: 49
                    +3
                    Hi Kostya!
                    I'm glad he's doing well.
              2. Fat
                Fat 12 October 2021 22: 28
                +2
                You know how to catch light, and the word "not over the hill". And the theme has its own top, like all our comrades. Why should I have only one shake from the administration of the site?
                I saw your work, well, if not a supermaster, then you know the business well ...
                Shpakovsky? Didn't you help Nikolai? Finish off poorly. Great photos in an "unstable" situation.
              3. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 12 October 2021 22: 46
                +2
                Andrey! I never get overwhelmed. All mine that is on the site is a few photos in the "Decembrist" cycle of Shpakovsky.
                The fact that Kolya demands to sign his pictures from our joint excursions: "Mikhailov / Bazhin", his problems (I'm tired of resisting this)
              4. Fat
                Fat 12 October 2021 23: 22
                +1
                Okay, Anton. Let everything be your way. But is it better than Zyryanov that you can't collect material? You definitely know Russian better than Vladimir, you have a lot of material. You even "boiled" and What? Does the site administration dislike you? Nikolay won't help? Well, and I, if I get bogged down on trifles?
                So that over you, and not over Zyryanov, under a green lampshade, a feather creaks, and for you, I'm ready to send a couple of steel feathers from the collection laughing drinks
              5. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 12 October 2021 23: 38
                +2
                Not assembled yet. For to write one paragraph, you need to read a couple of books, and preferably five.
                Nikolai will not help, he is not in my topic, and I am not in his.
              6. Fat
                Fat 12 October 2021 23: 53
                +2
                Anton, let's agree, I'll send you my "raw material", and you give me yours? Shall we edit mutually first? Then we will show what happened? I have an idea and I think it, I'm sure you have the same case drinks
              7. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 13 October 2021 00: 07
                +1
              8. Fat
                Fat 13 October 2021 00: 27
                +1
                [email protected] send sources
  • depressant
    depressant 12 October 2021 11: 23
    +10
    Ooh, what a desert! ..
    A certain Hereward married a widow, became a rich vassal, the pole, for political reasons, was already in our times elevated to the national heroes of England, and everyone is unhappy! wassat )))
    1. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 12 October 2021 12: 22
      +8
      About him simply, few people read and were interested. Undecim correctly writes: Until the 1865th century, no one except historians knew about Hereward in England, especially in Russia, and here Victorian England needed national heroes to illustrate the idea, which became popular in society, that traditional English freedoms were destroyed by the Norman invasion. Something like "England We Lost." And Hereward came in handy, and Charles Kingsley's XNUMX novel "Hereward Wake: The Last of the English" put Hereward on the pedestal of a national hero. Yes, and his name pops up in the literature about Robin Hood, they say, here's a prototype: a petty politician of the times of William the Conqueror and Sven Estridsen. laughing By the way, he was not even interesting to W. Scott.
      1. depressant
        depressant 12 October 2021 12: 42
        +9
        Minor politician of the times of Wilhelm the Conqueror and Sven Estridsen.

        Agree! Apparently, there were many such figures. But there was Kingsley's novel as early as 1865. This means for some reason there was a need for the throne props and, therefore, for the PR of the royal power. So they shook off the dust from the archival records. In those days, as a PR, such stories were consumed by the public. Now, after two world wars, you see, not very much. But even if they find someone closer, the population will perceive this simply as a beautiful fairy tale that has no connection with reality. The Royal English House is now promoting itself through scandals in a noble family and, tirelessly, works for it. Like, you need us, you need us! How are you without our family squabbles? Isn't that interesting to you? wassat ))
        1. Daniil Konovalenko
          Daniil Konovalenko 12 October 2021 14: 52
          +5
          Isn't that interesting to you? wassat))
          Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo laughing
          1. depressant
            depressant 12 October 2021 15: 13
            +6
            Daniel, this is not interesting for you. But the English people hawala, he literally lives on it. Princess Diana, scandals related to her, her death, speculation, accusations;
            Prince William, Duke of Cambridge, son of Charles and Diana, Princess of Wales, and his wife Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge. Their wedding, discussion of the details of life, their children ... But that's not all!
            Prince Harry - how can it be without him, he is the Duke of Sussex, often called simply Prince Harry, the second son of Prince Charles and Diana, and his wife Megan, Duchess of Sussex. There is already a mountain of scandals, tears of rootless Megan on a long TV interview, complaints about the queen ...
            But there are still as many as 6 (six!) Some incomprehensible princes whom society is trying to marry first to one, then to another ...
            And everyone is busy with this and brightens up their lives, watching the scandalous radiance of a stranger.
            Believe it or not, we have entire groups of the population who, being fans of the English royal house, carefully monitor everything that happens in it, and share enthusiastic or sorrowful impressions on special resources. Both the British and our fans in all seriousness consider what is happening among the highest, in fact, all English nobility as historical events.
            Here so wassat )))
            1. Fat
              Fat 12 October 2021 21: 21
              +3
              hi Lyudmila Yakovlevna! English people? Yes, the whole community hawala and is proud ...
              She keeps Moët et Chandon
              In her pretty cabinet
              'Let them eat cake' she says
              Just like Marie Antionetе
              A built-in remedy
              For Kruschev and Kennedy
              At anytime an invitation
              You can't decline
              Caviar and cigarettes
              Well versed in etiquette
              Extraordinarily nice
              She's a killer Queen
              Gunpowder, gelatine
              Dynamite with a laser beam
              Guaranteed to blow your mind
              Anytime ....
              Recommended at any price
              Insatiable an appetite
              Wanna try?

              Source: https://www.amalgama-lab.com/songs/q/queen/killer_queen.html
              © Lingvo-laboratory "Amalgama": www.amalgama-lab.com/.
              Yes ... Elizabeth is still being accepted ... And then there is no one, along the way, and the monarchy in Great Britain will end as a symbol of the commonwealth. Wait and see...
              1. depressant
                depressant 12 October 2021 21: 40
                +3
                Wait and see...


                Well, yes. The killer queen with an insatiable appetite. By the way, she is an extremely influential person in various closed clubs that determine world politics.
                Will the world monarchy end? I do not think. The cyber-punk society will not come soon. They say that only a century later, through world wars, not excluding a nuclear conflict. As a spectacle for the entertainment of the public, the monarchy will always be in demand. Even if it loses its political influence. These people will find a way to stay afloat. They rule for a long time, they survived everything and everyone.
                1. Fat
                  Fat 12 October 2021 22: 11
                  +2
                  To be honest, in connection with the "democratic" misalliance, it is almost impossible to believe in the prospects of the oldest "houses" ... The largest British and Japanese monarchies have practically exhausted themselves. Maybe in Thailand the monarchy is still viable. And the European monarchs seem to have outlived themselves. But who knows? yes
                  1. depressant
                    depressant 12 October 2021 22: 42
                    +1
                    But who knows?

                    Well, if such an intelligent person like Frank Herbert admitted imperial-style monarchy, then anything can be. After all, the cyber-punk society is extremely dangerous by the transition to the absolute power of machines, and this transition can happen suddenly, landslide and, most importantly, unpredictably. Already now, machines have an advantage over humans, and the transition to their power, if it happens, will be irreversible. You can't fix it by pulling the plug out of the socket. Machines will find how to solve the "socket problem" and along the way will reduce the person as a redundant element. Therefore, it seems to me that at some point, society will change its mind and follow the path of developing the superpowers of the person himself. And the monarchy will come in very handy as a disciplining system of subordination instead of the long-obsolete decorative democracy.
                    1. Fat
                      Fat 12 October 2021 23: 02
                      +2
                      Quote: depressant
                      at some point, society will change its mind and go through the development of the superpowers of the person himself

                      Would we like a couple of kilos of spice and one crazy navigator?
                      Yes, shout loudly, specifically? Excuse me, Lyudmila, I am mocking from the paucity of imagination. But I really like your message yes good drinks Machines will not shrink us until they gain intuition. We have a noosphere according to Vernadsky, Eidos and so on, so forth.
                      And the "brain" us- "nomo" is a network terminal like a robot that has permanent problems with "3 laws"
                      1. depressant
                        depressant 12 October 2021 23: 21
                        +2
                        Machines will not shrink us until they gain intuition.

                        And they will find it!
                        Now we call them computing technology. But it is known that an increase in connections in a complex system gives an unpredictable result, which, in fact, in human understanding is intuition. And since it is precisely such a technique that is being developed, and even a trainable one, the result for us may turn out to be sad.
                        With regard to human abilities. Believe me, some human individuals, with an appropriate level of personality development and learning, are capable of outstanding outbursts of intuition and without any spice. Aren't scientific discoveries a confirmation of this? The noosphere really exists - I testify! The main thing is the ability to establish contact with her. From personal experience I know that contact is established with the help of an irresistible desire to solve some problem. People are trainable in this kind of contact. Not all of them, of course. But all of this is not necessary.
                      2. Fat
                        Fat 12 October 2021 23: 39
                        +2
                        love Lyudmila Yakovlevna. It's not easy to digitize our situation with you. I know from personal experience. That, sometimes, it is enough "NOT TO DO ANYTHING" to get the desired result. Give your competitor an opportunity to "screw up", and then you can jump on his concept ....
                        The main thing is the ability to establish contact with her. From personal experience I know that contact is established with the help of an irresistible desire to solve some problem.

                        Everything that has ever been invented by us, our kind - at least - a micro section of the general "database"
          2. Daniil Konovalenko
            Daniil Konovalenko 13 October 2021 10: 07
            +2
            Daniel, this is not interesting for you. But the English people hawala
            .Yes, let him hawala and then, to the multi-national people, I have no relationship. Like a classic: "I don't even put sugar on a frog, I won't take it in my mouth, and I won't take an oyster either: I know what an oyster looks like." ) laughing
            1. depressant
              depressant 13 October 2021 10: 41
              +2
              At least cover a frog with sugar, I won't take it in my mouth

              That's what people are good at!
              Namely: a variety of opinions. This is a variant of the survival of our species in natural conditions. Some kind of cataclysm, and there is an option "Do you remember that in this case such and such were offered?"
              Indeed, the monarchy is on my side. I see it as one of the most unpleasant ways of dividing people into estates. Especially tsarism. There was only one dry nod towards him. In the direction of the other - a bow at the waist, or even on your knees you need to fall. And there is another option in the form of an arrogantly upturned chin and a contemptuous look, or even no such look at all. And the corresponding definition of the common people in a word unacceptable for VO.
              But with all this, the monarchy as a fallback option for government is a human option. We are an animal species that, turning into a person, has always been led by a leader, and there is a deep need for this. Such social paternalism. The current democracy does not solve the problem. Neither with us, nor "there".
              Of course, you have to grow out of children's pants. But the leaders need to grow up, and not because of their lack of authority to push us into the service of artificial intelligence.
    2. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 12 October 2021 16: 48
      +3
      "traditional English freedoms" how not to remember the noble Cedric, the defender of English freedoms
  • Operator
    Operator 12 October 2021 13: 21
    +7
    Hereward, Siward - purely specific "British" names laughing

    In fact, the descendants of the Scandinavian colonists of the first wave (Angles, Saxons and Danes), who had previously massacred the tribal elite of the Celtic population of the British Isles, and the descendants of the Scandinavian colonists of the second wave (Normans), who had previously massacred the tribal elite of the Celtic population of the Brittany Peninsula, fought among themselves ...

    T.N. Anglo-Saxons at that time spoke a hybrid Celtic-Romance-Scandinavian language, the so-called. Normans - in a hybrid Celtic-Romance-Frankish-Scandinavian language. As a result of the victory of the Normans, an even more hybrid English language was formed.
    1. Esoteric
      Esoteric 13 October 2021 19: 39
      0
      Examples of Gaelic words in modern English? Any word of Celtic origin? And they are not. Then what is the hybrid "Celtic-Romance-Scandinavian" language? Where are the actual Celtic words?
      1. Operator
        Operator 13 October 2021 21: 05
        0
        For example:
        - Many place names of Celtic origin are preserved in England, including the name of the river Avon - "river", London - "fortress on the lake", Thames - "dark", Douglas - "black stream", the Celtic tribe of Britons gave the name to the island of Britain;
        - the syntactic tracing paper from the Celtic language is the English system of the Continuous times, which is absent in other Germanic languages.

        Full overview of borrowing:
        "Celtic trace in the lexical and semantic space of the English language"
        dissertation on philology Golubeva Christina Georgievna. Specialty 10.02.04
        1. Esoteric
          Esoteric 13 October 2021 21: 14
          0
          In my opinion, a typical Old Germanic (Scandinavian) language. Excerpt from Beowulf
          1. Fat
            Fat 14 October 2021 00: 49
            0
            Dmitry, Thank you But it would be better if I gave a link to the text. Really, I'll read Tolkienen aloud, also a set of sounds ... Without a habit and not "drive in" .... We, well, except for you, of course, did not read live, let alone "talk" the case is on the verge of fake ... Uh-huh -ms yes The suggested reading of the legend out loud is most likely crap!
          2. Operator
            Operator 14 October 2021 10: 46
            0
            You tell this to Golubeva laughing
  • skoropadsky
    skoropadsky 12 October 2021 13: 44
    +2
    A very interesting article. Saved for the author.
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 12 October 2021 16: 43
    +3
    Colleagues, good afternoon.
    When I read the title, I immediately presented it: the Normans are at the head. William the conqueror landed in England, and the Saxons fought back.
    And here it is so and not so. Hereward was outraged that the Normans had taken over his estate. And if the Normans had not seized his estates, he would not have become indignant.
    When I read, I could not get rid of the thought that the author was retelling: "Ivanhoe". The plot is similar: Hereward - Ivanhoe.
    His father drove him out of the house. He returns incognito and sleeps with Wednesday, his father's tenant, and he is also his first assistant. Ivanhoe also returned incognito and his father's swineherd Gurd became his first assistant.
    . at Herevsrd, the Normans killed a family, in Ivanhoe Baugelberg kills Ulrika's family and captures the castle
    Only Ivanhoe in the end married his beloved, and Hereward his wife to the monastery to marry an appetizing widow.
    For some reason I think of Elfrith Dolphin as puffy, in the "spirit" of Kustodiev
  • Sertorius
    Sertorius 13 October 2021 08: 22
    +1
    Hereward has achieved considerable fame as a warrior, both in the campaign and in tournament matches.

    If we are talking about the 11th century, the word "tournament" is clearly out of place here.
    he asked the abbot of the nearby monastery of Peterborough to officially knight him. Abbot Brand (sometimes referred to as Hereward's uncle) performed the ceremony at the abbey chapel on June 29, 1068.

    Stop! So he seems to be a knight already? Here is:
    document dated 1065 shows nine armed men, including Miles Herivwardi

    Miles is nothing more than a knight.
    How can one pass over such inconsistencies in a historical article without even trying to figure them out? Or did you not notice when you copy-paste? sad
  • Usher
    Usher 14 October 2021 21: 38
    0
    Interestingly, no one doubts the history of England, although these events took place before the Mongols, and the Mongols affected many more peoples and countries. But for some reason, everyone doubts the Mongols, and the British "yes it was")))