Russia's import dependence on Ukraine sold to India

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Now we can state with a sense of confidence that Russia no longer has dependence on Ukraine. She (addiction) is sold to India. As they say - out of sight, out of mind.

What is this joyful message about? On the fate of Project 11356R frigates of the "Admiral Essen" class.



As you know, Project 11356 is a very good ship. Just the ones that our the fleet clearly not enough for operations in the distant sea and ocean zones. It was originally planned to build six such ships. Special prospects have arisen in connection with the possibility of equipping ships with Caliber missiles.

The frigates were laid down and built since December 2010. Three ships ("Admiral Grigorovich", "Admiral Essen" and "Admiral Makarov") became part of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, significantly strengthening their presence in the ship group of, frankly, frankly old Soviet ships.


Photo: Igor Teryokhin

But with the rest, everything was not according to the plot.

The problem is that engines for frigates were developed and built by the Ukrainian concern Zorya-Mashproekt. And before the start of the Russian-Ukrainian crisis, the company managed to deliver to Russia three sets of gas turbine units, which are now used by the Black Sea frigates.

But the three remaining ships, alas, were too strong to complete.

Import substitution, which "confidently walked" in various industries of our country, broke both legs on marine engines.

Back in 2015, the then Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, Viktor Chirkov, said that due to the supply of engines by Ukraine, the Russian fleet would abandon these ships if it would not be possible to manufacture gas turbines at Russian enterprises.

The task to develop an engine to replace the Ukrainian one was given by NPO Saturn in 2016. Or, as an option, to redesign the ships for the existing power plants produced by NPO Saturn. However, the Rybinsk enterprise could not solve the problems that arose with the manufacture of individual units and mechanisms, and therefore the ships were mothballed "until better times."

As a result, two ships, "Admiral Istomin" and "Admiral Kornilov", are being completed for the Indian fleet, which will have no problems getting the "original" Ukrainian engines. The corresponding agreement between "Zorya-Mashproekt" and the Ministry of Defense of India was signed and the cash desk of the Ukrainian manufacturer was replenished with dollars of Indian origin.

The relations between India and Ukraine in this regard are very fruitful: on September 12, 2019, SE NPKG Zorya-Mashproekt signed contracts with the Indian Ministry of Defense for the supply of gas turbine equipment. The range of supplies includes gas turbine engines, gearboxes and spare parts kits for ships of the Indian Navy.

In general, more than 150 Ukrainian-made gas turbine engines are still in operation on Indian ships. Not surprisingly, there is an agreement between the company and the Indian Ministry of Defense for the overhaul and maintenance of existing engines.

Moreover, in 2019, the Indian enterprise Goa Shipyard Limited began construction of new Talvar-class frigates, which were previously built in Russia at the Yantar enterprise in Kaliningrad. For these ships, Zorya-Mashproekt will supply the M7N.1E propulsion system consisting of two DS71 cruise turbines and two DT59 afterburner turbines.

And what about us?

Our general director of USC Alexei Rakhmanov said that the last, sixth "Petrel" will also be sold. Without specifying who, but it is clear that it is India. If we compare the number of GGTU-M7N1 ordered by India to the Ukrainians, then everything is clear and understandable.

“Admiral Butakov” changed its name to “Tushil”, “Admiral Istomin” received the name “Tamala”. "Admiral Kornilov" will also be picked up Indian, no doubt.

On this, we can say that everything. V stories frigates of the project 11356R put a bullet.


In general, the very history of building frigates of two types (pr. 22350 and 11356R) at the same time is a very peculiar situation. In general, this practice is not used in the world, except perhaps from very poor countries that acquire ships on the secondary market. Others prefer to avoid ships of different types, since this significantly increases the cost of operation, maintenance and repair of ships.

Project 11356R frigates are nothing more than a fully developed family of patrol ships of projects 1135 and 1135M "Burevestnik" and 11351 "Nereus", its deep modernization. Quite a lot of these ships have been built since 1968, about four dozen, for the needs of both the Navy and the Coast Guard of the Border Guard Service.

Some, by the way, serve to this day. "Ladny" and "Pytlivy" as part of the Black Sea Fleet, "Dzerzhinsky" and "Orel" as part of the FSB Border Service in the Far East.

Well, beauty and pride, the flagship of the Ukrainian fleet, "Hetman Sagaidachny" - is also one of these projects.


It was believed that Project 11356R frigates would be built only in the interests of the Black Sea Fleet, and all six ships would make up a strike fist in the Black Sea. And the more "die-hard" ships of Project 22350 will serve in the Pacific and Northern fleets.

But on this, obviously, the history of Project 11356 frigates ends. And this is, in principle, good. Project 11356 is clearly inferior to the more expensive, but better equipped project 22350.

But the main thing is that there is an engine for the 22350 project. Diesel-gas turbine unit М55Р. The first brainchild of the UEC "Saturn" under the program to replace Ukrainian engines.

So, on the one hand, three ships will leave to serve in the interests of India, on the other, they will be replaced by frigates of project 22350.


This is definitely good. And it is somehow inconvenient to have two frigates, and there will be exactly half the problems with engines.

It's really nice to know that the situation has changed. Dependence on Ukraine in the person of three frigates of project 11356R was sold to India, the Indians order engines from the Ukrainians, in general, everyone is happy.

But in general, we are not interested in Indo-Ukrainian relations, the main thing is that we have a frigate with an engine, which even has washers made in Russia. And you can forget about the Nikolaev units, like about a nightmare.

Of course, it would be nice to get rid of such a partner in the supply of diesel engines as China, but there is nothing to be done about this. We'll have to buy, although I would very much like to have my own.

The problem of "stuck" ships of Project 11356 was resolved. Even if not as it would be ideally. Yes, the Black Sea Fleet will never, apparently, receive its three Project 11356R ships. But on the other hand, they will not be stuck in heaps of dead metal at shipbuilding plants and will not be scrapped.


And the situation itself, when there is a ship, but there are no engines for it, is flawed nonsense. I want to forget that we were in this position, and forget as soon as possible.

It is a pity that while the Russian shipbuilding industry cannot become fully autonomous and build ships of any class completely independently. But the fact that we are already in a position to build a completely Russian frigate is already encouraging. Because it’s not far from a destroyer or cruiser. Although we need so many new frigates that it is too early to think about cruisers and aircraft carriers.

In general, we say goodbye to the Burevestniki finally and irrevocably and we will wait for new ships of Project 22350. Completely Russian.
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184 comments
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  1. +17
    29 September 2021 18: 13
    In terms of
    we say goodbye to the "Burevestniki" finally and irrevocably
    ? After all
    Three ships ("Admiral Grigorovich", "Admiral Essen" and "Admiral Makarov") became part of the Russian Black Sea Fleet
    , so the problem of repair and maintenance will remain, and these are certainly not the only ships with engines created in the Ukrainian SSR.
    1. -25
      29 September 2021 21: 54
      And what is it for Ukraine to impose sanctions on Russia so that the hulls of our three corvettes hang on our stocks? Well, Ukrainians are ready to help the achressor for bucks. laughing
  2. +1
    29 September 2021 18: 21
    The hardest thing in any construction is of course the washer. I remember how punch holes were made and nothing GAZ-51 cars went for decades. And if there were no washers, then they would have to be sharpened on lathes, drilled and cut off. Hellish labor, in half an hour cut about a hundred washers, was tortured to count.
    1. +3
      29 September 2021 18: 45
      And the cost of a chiseled washer approached the cost of a gold ring. wassat negative
      1. +3
        29 September 2021 21: 07
        Quote: Ros 56
        the cost of a chiseled washer was close to the cost of a gold ring

        Why did you get that? Thieves who cough up crayfish! Look here: the washers can be "cut down" ... the washers for the ship installation ... We equip the ships with the appropriate instrument and that's it! The problem of the washers is solved! Guilty "sailor" ... punishment: a hundred washers by tomorrow! There is nothing to do during leisure hours ... boring ... there is entertainment! What "cockpit" for a "match" will make more pucks! Rewards for the winners! The rest - consolation prizes!
        1. 0
          30 September 2021 06: 58
          And why do you want to take revenge on the crew ??? wassat
          1. 0
            30 September 2021 12: 32
            "Washer! Washer! Washer!"
      2. +1
        30 September 2021 05: 55
        It will be for us in the future, science will be. We cannot rely on other countries. Moreover, to Ukraine. Although, our bureaucrats are unlikely to grow wiser. We also had the legendary "Varyag" built in America.
        1. +1
          30 September 2021 10: 57
          So what ? The Russian Empire ordered many ships from foreign shipyards. And not only Russia. But the point is not that - the main thing is to completely eradicate import substitution in the industry of the Russian Federation. The main thing is that any ship or merchant ship that descends from the stocks should be domestic
          1. -3
            30 September 2021 18: 18
            Yes, the Merikos are ordering submarines in Australia, but that's different.
          2. 0
            3 January 2022 01: 10
            Dream, Mishenka, dream ...
            ("The Marriage of Balzaminov")
    2. +1
      30 September 2021 05: 14
      Is it space technology to make a stamp for this part?
      1. +1
        30 September 2021 12: 29
        Depends on the complexity of the washers (there are different washers) and the circulation. It may turn out that the stamp is not beneficial.
    3. 0
      5 October 2021 23: 26
      There is a press for the washers, the speed is like a Kalash machine throws out the washers like sleeves
    4. 0
      24 December 2021 06: 08
      From all the text you memorized only the words about the washers. You're a phenomenon. Or rather a mud-ring.
  3. nnm
    +19
    29 September 2021 18: 22
    To be honest, it just does not fit in my mind how our country was unable to create its own power plant. Almost 2014 years have passed since 8. ... Well, how is that ?!
    I understand that there must be a sea of ​​difficulties and problems. I understand that this is not the USSR, which created an atomic bomb 4 years after the war. But 8 years with a total of 0 ... maybe, after all, it is already worth stopping moving the beds ...
    1. +18
      29 September 2021 18: 33
      But 8 years with 0 total .... maybe, all the same

      What makes you think that the total is zero? NPO Saturn is already producing the M90FR gas turbine engine and two sets have been shipped to the 22350 series frigates.
      1. nnm
        +18
        29 September 2021 18: 42
        And what sets will we repair, capitalize Ukrainian engines, of which there are many in the IMF?
        What happened - on pins and needles or industrial cannibalism?
        Its new engines are great. And what to do with the exploited Ukrainian ones?
        After all, it was not for nothing that they were given TK for them, but the plant, other organizations, it turns out, simply could not ...
        Colleague, I have not yet asked how many sets of power plants we can produce in a year. And, accordingly, he did not ask the question of how fast the fleet would then be built.
        I just said my opinion, I am sure there are many much more knowledgeable colleagues from the profile specialization on the site and it will be interesting to listen to their opinion.
        1. +13
          29 September 2021 18: 55
          And with what kits we will repair, capitalize Ukrainian engines, of which there are many

          Repair is not the construction of new ones, and then, the same "Saturn" is able to repair the "Zori" turbines, since they are very similar. For 8 years we have been living without the opportunity to carry out repairs with the participation of "Zorya-Mashproekt" and somehow we are coping.
          1. nnm
            +12
            29 September 2021 19: 01
            Sorry, due to professional deformation, I do not understand the terms "somehow", "very similar", etc.
            I understand such data: there are so many engines of such and such a model in operation, here is the replacement / repair / maintenance schedule, such factories produce so many kits at such and such a time, repairs are performed by that ... repair / replacement / maintenance schedules executed / not executed.
            Reasons for non-compliance, remedial measures, deadlines and responsible persons.
            And somehow, maybe, and so on - these are not terms in matters of defense.
            1. +14
              29 September 2021 19: 21
              I understand such data: there are so many engines of such a model in operation, here is the replacement / repair / maintenance schedule, such factories produce so many kits at such a time,

              Why do you need all this? It’s as if you’re working as a leader in a relevant ministry and demanding a report. The work is in progress. Turbine "Saturn" is a sister of the turbine "Zorya-Mashproekt", there even engineers and specialists from "Zori" work on "Saturn", families left Ukraine.
              1. +16
                29 September 2021 23: 00
                So it has already been written about this more than once, but only a tiny fraction of the simple, as they say, hard workers moved to Saturn (no offense to ordinary workers, their contribution is always great and invaluable, "hard workers" is an established professional jargon, which is not intended to deliberately offend anyone).

                A significant part of the "brains" (but far from critical) moved to China, where they are involved in the maintenance and development of the Chinese program for the creation / localization of an analogue of American LM2500 turbines in the form of QC280 (Chinese localization of the Ukrainian UGT25000), this process began in the early to mid-2000s. NS.
                The remaining "brains" and working personnel continue to work quietly on the gas turbine market in India and China, without any desire to move anywhere (except to China, and then everyone has already done it), the majority of employees and designers did not show any desire to leave their homes. , because Zorya earns considerable sums on spare parts and repairs and repairs of a huge number of turbines, and then there are new gas turbines for India, machine kits and gas turbines for China for the Chinese gas transmission system, plus there is a whole bunch of smaller customers.

                PS I will probably now reveal a seditious secret, but for a long time not only Ukrainians, but also Russian specialists / designers from all UEC divisions, and even Germans from Siemens / Airbus have moved to China, they have very comfortable conditions there, plus probably the best available on labor market social package and salaries for even junior-level specialists, which can only be found, so one should not think about the hard workers "Zori" who fled to Rybinsk, but about how Russian "brains" would remain in Rybinsk for these hard workers.
                1. -2
                  30 September 2021 10: 21
                  And rightly so. There is nothing to do in the countries of the former USSR ... ordinary resource appendages ...
                2. +2
                  30 September 2021 11: 01
                  An excellent turner is a more competent specialist than an engineer - this is the question of hard workers. But, of course, it is better when both the engineering technician and the working master of their craft .dixi.
                  1. +6
                    30 September 2021 18: 09
                    The fact that sometimes a single turner can be more competent than an individual engineer does not negate the need for design engineers.

                    Because a turner (or any other worker) is primarily a production specialty, and in order to produce something, you first need to calculate and design it, because the turner himself (take, for example, a healthy guy who worked at a machine or even for a CNC machine for at least 5-6 years) may already know better some technological points / features from experience, but he will not develop a conventional shaft / turbine blades / high-pressure compressor, etc., he may show problems of the technological plan , errors in design documentation or something else, but even the best turner cannot replace the worst (in terms of design tasks) design engineer, since the turner (with rare exceptions) will not have developed competencies in development / design (CAD, materials science , resistance), since its profile is the very production of the assembly / part and this imposes certain restrictions on its "knowledge base" (if we take the average for the hospital).

                    The bottom line is, as you rightly noted, in order to have a parity of design and working potentials, but due to the outflow of novice and experienced engineers abroad (Europe, USA, China), there is more and more imbalance in the direction of working potential, and we ourselves workers, if opportunities / age / health / marital status permit, often go to work abroad, especially for young designers who prefer to "rot" in the West with the comfort of their families than to look at the "projects" of another Rogozin.
                    1. +4
                      1 October 2021 06: 51
                      I agree with you - being determines consciousness. Therefore, "brains" (and hands) are flowing to the West. Patriotism is a necessary thing - but it is hard to educate it with propaganda alone. Especially when it comes to consumer society. The conclusion is that something is not right in the conservatory as the late (alas) Mikhail Zhvanetsky used to say. We need to start with social programs. From education. .. The question arises - why can we build an APRK - but at the same time haven’t created our own gas turbine units for so many years?
            2. +2
              29 September 2021 21: 32
              It is worth noting that ships with foreign-made engines can also be equipped with M90FR during remotorization. “However, taking into account the“ age ”of the ships and the need to attract serious funds for the modernization of the main power plants and control systems of the ship, such a decision was not made, - the corporation says.

              The corporation stressed that the corporation can fully supply the state customer with GTE and GTA in the required volumes. "For today, the planned volume of supplies is about 20 M90FR gas turbine engines," the UEC reported.
          2. 0
            30 September 2021 11: 13
            Renovation is not building a new one. But for it, repair, implementation, a set of repair documentation is required, for the development of which, in turn, a set of design documentation is required. And now let's tell fortunes, will the holder from the city of Nikolaev of the former Ukrainian SSR give us his registered copies or not?
            1. -1
              30 September 2021 20: 14
              There is no need to guess. Everything is.
              1. +1
                30 September 2021 20: 38
                Seriously? That is, the CD on MTLB, for example, the former Kharkov BTZ refused to transfer to us, because we have a lot of headaches, not only with production, but even simply with the adoption of new models of equipment on its basis, and CD on the GTE for frigates transferred? Any weighty arguments in favor of your comment will be?
                1. 0
                  30 September 2021 20: 40
                  Where is MTLB and where is M70FRU?
                  Don't fool your head, please. hi
                  Threat Turbines were produced in Russia.
                  Zorya assembled and tested the unit.
                  We have already reproduced all this. Quiet.
                  The UEC said that according to the results of the development of the marine gas turbine engine M70FRU sets of design and technological documentation assigned the letter "O1", which means ready for serial production. M70FRU can be used as sustainer and afterburner engines in the main power plants, including amphibious air-cushion ships, on drilling platforms, in the port infrastructure. On the basis of this engine, two modifications have been created: M70FRU-2 and M70FRU-R.

                  https://flotprom.ru/2021/%D0%9C%D0%B2%D0%BC%D1%8110/
        2. +5
          29 September 2021 18: 57
          Most likely, the Mongolian Navy will unexpectedly make orders to Ukraine for spare parts ...
        3. -10
          29 September 2021 19: 02
          And what sets will we repair, capitalize Ukrainian engines, of which there are many in the IMF?

          They will replace it with our engines and that's it, you blow up an elephant out of a fly.
          1. nnm
            -7
            29 September 2021 19: 03
            Can you find out the terms of replacement, manufacturer and volumes of localized production?
            1. -1
              29 September 2021 19: 04
              Can you find out the terms of replacement, manufacturer and volumes of localized production?

              What are you interested in?
              1. nnm
                +8
                29 September 2021 19: 05
                Of course, in order to transfer data to foreign spies, what kind of questions (I don't even know if you can guess that this is sarcasm or not) ?!
                Can you at least answer these questions for yourself? I guess not. Then what is this throwing of caps for?
                1. -20
                  29 September 2021 19: 06
                  Of course, in order to transfer data to foreign spies, what are the questions ?!

                  80% chance.
                  1. nnm
                    +9
                    29 September 2021 19: 11
                    Yes 180% write that you are too trifling.
                    And do not care that the data on the supplied engines and on the production volumes of our new GTEs is open, look for spies and further.
          2. +4
            30 September 2021 08: 04
            No. Those that go - and go to butchering with their relatives. The same BODs were considered, but the volume of work flew away, this was abandoned and only repairs with the extension of native cars.

            The scope of work is very large, ranging from changing underwater communications, changing foundations, tricky things with compartments, ending with R&D / R&D and breaking new characteristics into the passport (and not a plus, the turbines of the 70s are native, quite successful and with a high specific power). This is if you take the gas-gas turbine to the gas-gas turbine. If we take the unification with 22350 (diesel-gas turbine), then the volume of alterations will increase dramatically.
          3. 0
            2 October 2021 21: 21
            Replace with our engines and that's it

            What was not replaced on Project 11356R?
        4. +2
          29 September 2021 23: 37
          Probably, those power plants that were acquired in friendly times, as well as Indian ones, were bought with sets of spare parts most susceptible to replacement, and, most likely, from the times of the USSR, something remained. But these are just my assumptions.
        5. -1
          30 September 2021 05: 15
          It is easier to re-equip with your own gas turbines.
      2. 0
        2 October 2021 08: 34
        Yeah, it releases - on paper. All Ukrainian gas turbines, like VK-2500 and GTD-110, Saturn is a trash heap for the utilization of budgetary funds.
    2. +8
      29 September 2021 18: 45
      I agree with you, but the production of machine tools is scanty, we do what and how, on what. So they are afraid to use common sense. Everything that the USSR did is still feeding us.
    3. +11
      29 September 2021 18: 48
      Quote: nnm
      I understand that there must be a sea of ​​difficulties and problems. I understand that this is not the USSR, which created an atomic bomb 4 years after the war. But 8 years with a total of 0 ... maybe, after all, it is already worth stopping moving the beds ...

      The biggest problem is not in the gas turbine engine, but in high-speed gearboxes and inter-gear drives)))
      And so you're right - it's time to stop moving the beds))
    4. -17
      29 September 2021 18: 59
      To be honest, it just does not fit in my mind how our country was unable to create its own power plant. Almost 2014 years have passed since 8. ... Well, how is that ?!

      So what ? Americans won’t have been able to launch a man to the moon again for 50 years)))
      1. nnm
        +1
        29 September 2021 19: 04
        Are you sure they have such a goal now? For this they are ready to recreate their super-heavy rocket, and we did not even have it nearby.
        1. -22
          29 September 2021 19: 05
          Are you sure they have such a goal now? They are ready to recreate their super-yellow rocket for this.

          It is clear - we are defending the owner, we revile everything Russian - I have no more questions.
          1. nnm
            +26
            29 September 2021 19: 09
            Well, I would understand if you also said Soviet. And what has modern Russia created in the modern space race? Can you tell me what kind of new rocket we have and what is the maximum weight of the output load? Do you know how much weight you need to deduce for a flight to the moon.
            And for your information, colleague - a patriot, this is not the one who foams at the mouth trying to throw his hat as far away as possible, but the one who thinks about how later it would be necessary to correct the mistakes of such whistleblowers at a high price.
            1. -25
              29 September 2021 19: 13
              And for your information, colleague, a patriot, this is not the one who foaming at the mouth tries to throw a hat away

              A patriot is someone who loves Russia, and you have only a badly hidden hatred for it.
              1. nnm
                +18
                29 September 2021 19: 15
                And to love, in your opinion, dear colleague, does it mean only to praise? Without doubting, without criticizing, without asking awkward questions, right?
                Which one of my theses, in your opinion, testifies to my hatred of Russia? Specifically ... one example.
                1. -17
                  29 September 2021 19: 20
                  Which one of my theses, in your opinion, testifies to my hatred of Russia? Specifically ... one example.

                  So you don't see trees in the forest yet?
                  Here
                  Well, I would understand if you also said Soviet. And what has modern Russia created in the modern space race? Can you tell me what kind of new rocket we have and what is the maximum weight of the output load? Do you know how much weight you need to deduce for a flight to the moon.

                  You have a clear division - Soviet / Russian. And for me it is always Russian - under the Kiev princes, under the tsars, or under the communists.
                  1. nnm
                    +11
                    29 September 2021 19: 24
                    1. As I understand it, there will be no concrete answer to the question about the Russian rocket created from 0, indicating the weight to be put into orbit. Expected.
                    2. And you for an hour, colleague, aren't you a chauvinist? In our country, so many nationalities are intertwined by blood ties, age-old family ties, that it is disgusting, ignorant and stupid to single out only one of them. All the peoples of our country are one family and there is no need to make someone higher at the expense of belittling others.
                    1. -19
                      29 September 2021 19: 25
                      And you, colleague, are you not a chauvinist for an hour? In our country, so many nationalities are intertwined by blood ties, age-old family ties, that it is disgusting, ignorant and stupid to single out only one of them.

                      So this is where your rejection comes from - it's clear / understandable)))
                      1. nnm
                        +11
                        29 September 2021 19: 34
                        Tell me, a hereditary Cossack, whose ancestors served as scouts, what is clear to you?
                      2. +9
                        29 September 2021 20: 20
                        Quote: nnm
                        Tell me, a hereditary Cossack, whose ancestors served as scouts, what is clear to you?

                        =======
                        I agree with you in many respects, but let's leave our ancestors alone: ​​if we are Proud of something, it’s only what we have done by ourselves!
                        And proud of Fathers and Grandfathers - we will be PERSONAL!
                      3. 0
                        3 October 2021 22: 39
                        "ready to recreate" and "recreated" are two different things
                    2. 0
                      29 September 2021 20: 46
                      And you did not pay attention that in America, Americans, in France, French, well, there are fewer nationalities, but in the document, French, or American, so before that the person wrote correctly, Russia, and that Kiev and that Soviet, she Russia
                    3. +15
                      30 September 2021 02: 50
                      Quote: nnm
                      And you, colleague, are you not a chauvinist for an hour?

                      Sorry to interfere, but this character is not from Russia at all. No.
                      However, he constantly expresses the opinion of an alleged citizen of the Russian Federation. I believe that this is a provocateur, his main goal is to sow interethnic strife and create conflicts.
                    4. -5
                      30 September 2021 15: 22
                      Sorry to interfere in your dispute, but don't you think that you are already a little tired of the role of the USSR in the history of Russia? Russia was before the USSR, under the USSR, and will be after the USSR.
                2. -12
                  29 September 2021 20: 30
                  And to love, in your opinion, dear colleague, does it mean only to praise? Without doubting, without criticizing, without asking awkward questions, right? "

                  Listen carefully. I hope you are just a narrow-minded person, and not a troll on the salary of the NSA, etc. You can ask uncomfortable questions ONLY at the address, but for the general public it is just anti-state agitation. Today Russian NATIONALISTS are fighting against RUSSIANS in Ukraine, simply for Ukrainian NATIONALISTS. You do the same. Truth kills as often as lies. Every word should be thought out. Always and everywhere there are not strong minds, we saw them on the Maidans of different countries. Why give them food? There are difficulties, but who does not? Today, no one dares to fight with Russia, and systems are already coming into service that will guarantee us security for 20-30 years to come. During this time, we will bring up the fleet as well. So let's go without snot, men don't cry.
                3. +1
                  30 September 2021 03: 15
                  It is better not to wait for answers to rhetorical questions. wink
              2. 0
                1 October 2021 08: 20
                Quote: lucul
                And for your information, colleague, a patriot, this is not the one who foaming at the mouth tries to throw a hat away

                A patriot is someone who loves Russia, and you have only a badly hidden hatred for it.

                I love Russia, but with a strange love ...
          2. +9
            29 September 2021 21: 35
            Quote: lucul
            We revile everything Russian - I have no more questions.
            True eyes hurts?
            Where is your Russian - domestic cowards to buy a problem. For many years now there has been talk about the need for import substitution, but things are still there. They exchange some foreign suppliers for others.
            1. +3
              30 September 2021 04: 38
              Man, what are the cowards? In Russia, residents of Central Asia even wash toilets! Have sunk to the point that 90% (according to the Ministry of Internal Affairs) of Moscow prostitutes are residents of Ukraine!
              1. +2
                30 September 2021 09: 21
                This is just fine. The girls are beautiful, marketable. , laughing And what else can the inhabitants of Central Asia do? Well, at the best time, a mortar for a bricklayer, a wheelbarrow. The level of qualification corresponds to the level of education in the feudal countries of the SA.
              2. +4
                30 September 2021 10: 19
                Quote: avg avg
                90% (according to the Ministry of Internal Affairs) of Moscow prostitutes are residents of Ukraine!

                Give Russian prostitutes in Russian brothels with Russian cowards !!!!
            2. +5
              30 September 2021 12: 39
              I'm embarrassed to say - I bought domestic panties "a la family" on Ali, with delivery from Russia, I don't like modern thongs with rhinestones and a proboscis.
    5. +2
      29 September 2021 19: 21
      who created an atomic bomb 4 years after the war

      - started with 43g and with difficulty, anguish ... everything has a price ... and the lives of academicians
    6. +5
      29 September 2021 19: 33
      Quote: nnm
      But 8 years with a total of 0 ... maybe, after all, it is already worth stopping moving the beds ...

      30 years ... thirty with a zero total and 20 with a zeroed president.
      1. nnm
        0
        29 September 2021 19: 37
        As much as I would not like to object to something, I just silently put a "+".
        1. +2
          30 September 2021 10: 20
          Quote: nnm
          As much as I would not like to object to something, but just silently put "+"

          Still, a colleague will not deliver a plus to a colleague ... laughing
      2. +2
        29 September 2021 20: 49
        How long have I been here, here Putin really did either in a boot or in your pocket, brother, here is a site about war, I repeat, ABM Voynushka, and not about Putin, damn it, at least here do not stick politics
      3. +11
        29 September 2021 21: 09
        30 years ... thirty with a zero total and 20 with a zeroed president.


        Zero?

        What is this?

        1. Strategic nuclear submarines "Borey" 5 built, 5 under construction, each worth 1 billion dollars;
        2. Multipurpose nuclear submarines "Yasen-M" 3 built, 6 under construction, each worth 1,3 billion dollars.
        3.DEPL pr.636.3 9 built, 3 is under construction, 1 is being prepared for laying, each worth 300 million dollars;
        4.Frigates of project 22350 2 built, 6 under construction, 2 are preparing for laying, each worth 500 million dollars;
        5.Frigates of Project 11356 3 built;
        6.Corvettes pr.20380/20385 10 built, 5 under construction, each worth 250 million dollars;
        7.UDC pr.23900, 2 is under construction, each worth 1,3 billion dollars;
        8.BDK pr.11711 2 built, 2 is under construction, 1 is being prepared for laying;
        9. Minesweeper pr.12700 6 built, 3 is under construction.

        And in addition, many support vessels have been built and the modernization of old ships and submarines has been carried out.
        1. +1
          29 September 2021 21: 33
          Zero?

          What is this?

          Everything is known in comparison .. compare with China .. or with the USA .. maybe with the USSR .. in 20 years ..
          But as far as defense is concerned ... it still didn't go anywhere, but in comparison with other industries, where the result is negative ... on average, zero.
          1. 0
            29 September 2021 22: 09
            it still didn't go anywhere, but in comparison with other industries, where the result is negative ... on average, zero


            Since the days of Khrushchev, the USSR has been buying grain abroad, from 1980 to 40-45 million tons annually at the current price of 12 billion dollars, and Russia is now the world leader in wheat export.

            And in all other sectors, the result is positive.
            1. +3
              29 September 2021 22: 44
              Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
              it still didn't go anywhere, but in comparison with other industries, where the result is negative ... on average, zero


              Since the days of Khrushchev, the USSR has been buying grain abroad, from 1980 to 40-45 million tons annually at the current price of 12 billion dollars, and Russia is now the world leader in wheat export.

              And in all other sectors, the result is positive.

              The USSR bought grain to feed cattle, and now we are fed with grain, which was fed to cattle in the USSR ..
              And besides grain, what else do we export? wassat You look around carefully and find "made in Russia" ... everything that is made on you in China or at enterprises that in fact do not belong to us .. I think even the panties on you are not of our production .. so your comparison with the USSR is ridiculous and sad .. The USSR provided itself for everything itself. Well, maybe besides chewing gum ..
              1. +1
                30 September 2021 08: 15
                You know, I looked. Washing machine, walker, microwave oven, stove, small household appliances, furniture, Russian, Chinese dishwasher, two cars - Russian, boat - ours, engine for it - Japanese (well, we don't make boat motors here), Chinese dishwasher, more computer part of Taiwan and China, I think ...
                And to whom the enterprise OWNS is not important, it is important on whose territory they work!
                1. 0
                  30 September 2021 09: 32
                  All "Russian" products listed by you, in fact, are assembled from imported components with a screwdriver. And who owns the question of paramount importance. If your sofa, with which you knock on the keyboard, belongs to a not friendly neighbor, he can take it away or push his letters to print. Influencers, in fact.
                  1. +4
                    30 September 2021 12: 15
                    , You listed, in fact, assembled from imported components with a screwdriver.

                    Well, first of all, this is a lie about the screwdriver assembly, even Russian foreign cars are localized by 80-90%, that is, everything up to our rental. And secondly, do you have double standards, in the Russian Federation there is a counter-assembly, but not in the USA and Europe? Open a washing machine (dishwasher, microwave ...) for example, originally Swedish.
                    1. It turns out that it was collected in Romania
                    2. The drum is sealed and assembled in the PRC.
                    3. PRC control module.
                    4. Motor - and then our miracle!

                    All over the world this is not called a screwdriver assembly, but international cooperation.
                    1. +2
                      30 September 2021 22: 54
                      Well, who cares. I cooperate with the enemy, and even more so have
                      he is completely disliked by the management of "our" enterprises. I don't give a damn what's in gamerope and crazy. In general, capitalism does not suit me.
                      1. 0
                        1 October 2021 13: 48
                        Even the PRC is not suitable for you to Cuba. laughing
                      2. +1
                        2 October 2021 09: 38
                        I prefer to stay at home and remove the bourgeois from my country.
              2. -2
                30 September 2021 10: 52
                Quote: Svarog
                USSR bought grain to feed cattle

                Tell your children these fairy tales!
                Quote: Svarog
                now we are fed with grain, which was fed to cattle in the USSR ..

                can be more?
                Quote: Svarog
                Look around carefully and find "made in Russia"

                Open your eyes and take off your black glasses ... the volume of products manufactured by the Light Industry of the Russian Federation in monetary terms for 2020 amounted to 2 trillion. rubles. All the shops of the EAEU countries are inundated with products of the Food Industry ..... including cowards .... are you only interested in pants from Cardin?
                Quote: Svarog
                The USSR provided itself for everything itself. Well, maybe besides chewing gum ..

                Uh-huh ... cigarettes Stewardess, Opal, Shipka 80% of the Soviet cigarette market. Green peas, leche, pickled cucumbers, GLOBUS fruit nectars the same 80% if not more! Czechoslovak Tatras, sneakers. Gder's portfolios Diplomat, furniture. Chinese shirts, jackets, sweaters Druzhba ... and the leader of Soviet sales, Romanian furniture ... and that's just what I remembered!
                1. -1
                  5 October 2021 19: 09
                  Unfortunately, the truth about grain. High-quality varieties go to the foreign market
                  Low-quality ones are not needed there. On the inside, almost fodder. I have a friend who is in the grain business, he said.
              3. -1
                30 September 2021 11: 24
                If the USSR, as you say, bought grain to feed the cattle, then why was there no sausage in the stores? Where did the huge livestock go?

                Why did they go to Moscow for sausage and everything else except black bread?

                Why were there empty shelves in the stores of the USSR? Why was it not that meat, butter and milk, there was not even a penny pasta !!!

                No need to lie, the USSR bought wheat in order to feed the people, because with the mediocrity of the leadership of the CPSU, we could not even feed ourselves.

                What achievements of the USSR are you talking about here ?!

                As a result, the USSR collapsed on its own, without a military invasion - this is the result of the political and economic system that you praise.

                Most of the economic achievements of the USSR are lies and registrations.

                The people in the USSR lived in poverty all the time !!! And this is despite the fact that the USSR, in addition to industry and agriculture, was also engaged in the export of oil, gas, metals, coal and timber.
                1. +4
                  30 September 2021 23: 01
                  What is this nonsense? I lived in poverty and did not see pasta and milk? What are you carrying? You lived in the Union, why are you trying so categorically to tell me that I dreamed everything? Here are the bourgeois political commanders in the right brains. The transcendental level of fooling and lying.
                  Or are you yourself one of those broadcasting from the pulpit into immature young brains?
                  1. -1
                    1 October 2021 15: 54
                    I myself lived in the USSR, so I don't need to talk about the abundance of goods and services in the USSR !!!

                    There was a shortage of everything !!!

                    You can't buy any food, except bread, freely, no building materials, no clothes, NOTHING !!!

                    Therefore, in the USSR, special stores were created for certain categories of citizens, where everything was a little better. For workers of individual enterprises (defense as a rule), for party workers, etc.

                    Well, Moscow and Leningrad, of course, were the best provided.

                    And my grandmother, that my mother's coat for the 10th grade to buy from the Tambov region went to Moscow and not because there are fashionable things there, but because in the Tambov region, living in a village, it was not possible to buy it either in the regional center or in Tambov, it was not available for sale, everything that they were brought there by their "friends". Raipo and trade in general are the main mafia of the USSR.

                    My mother, in order to buy sweets for the New Year, took a bus for work and under the guise of visiting the theater went to Moscow for gifts for children !!!

                    The Muscovites called the newcomers contemptuous-bagmen.

                    And then they made maps that allowed only Muscovites to shop in the store, but this is closer to the collapse of the country, when there was a shortage of food even in Moscow.

                    Anecdote from the USSR:

                    What is green and smells like sausage? This is a train from Moscow.

                    Is this your Soviet abundance, equality and brotherhood ?!

                    Is this the correct political and economic course of the country ?!

                    This is a shame and a shame !!!

                    And shame on you if you want to pass off this poverty as happiness and push Russia there again.

                    The communists of Russia / SSSR are to blame before the people of the USSR for their poverty and the collapse of the country !!! Charity and shame to all of them !!!

                    I can't wait for the leader of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation to admit his guilt and, as the successor of the CPSU, will repent before his people for all the evil that has been done to our country and people.
                    1. +1
                      2 October 2021 09: 35
                      The reasoning of the human stomach. Nonsense on nonsense.
              4. -2
                30 September 2021 12: 08
                and now we are fed with grain, which was fed to cattle in the USSR ..

                Delirium of a stoned man. Svarozhik, will you try to bake bread from feed grain? Yes, he will crumble in your hands !!! Where do you come from so stubborn? Okay, defend your "wet mriyas". But why post nonsense?
                1. 0
                  30 September 2021 12: 34
                  There are people who are stupidly stubborn ... - "You ss ... really in the eye, and he is God's dew!"
                2. +1
                  30 September 2021 12: 39
                  Quote: Okolotochny
                  Svarozhik, you try to bake bread from feed grain

                  You are our okolokhlebny .. You talk to the technologists .. they will tell you how sweets are made from gomne ..
                  1. -1
                    1 October 2021 09: 17
                    Always crying and dissatisfied, I do not "communicate", I have been working in this field for 14 years. tongue fool
                    A great technologist was found. You can only "chat and cry". For your educational program - first sort out the quality indicators of wheat, and then "be smart" with stupid comments. Further along Lavrov.
                3. nnm
                  +2
                  30 September 2021 15: 26
                  Colleague, this is actually the case. View wheat production by variety. I promise you will be surprised.
                  1. 0
                    1 October 2021 09: 24
                    I do not need to "look", I wrote above. Most of the food grain was bought for gold and currency in the USA and Canada under the USSR. Do you remember boiled pasta? Now we sell the same grain (mostly). We sell a surplus of about 30 million tons. This is "on the fingers". Remember about a year ago, maybe for half a year one of our leaders said that we would introduce additional export duties, or maybe we would reduce them? See the reaction "from over the hill"? They immediately became worried. What is he talking about? The fact that Russia has become one of the leaders in the production and export of grain.
                    1. nnm
                      +3
                      1 October 2021 09: 38
                      Of course not. As they say, a colleague is not a reader, a colleague is a writer. I don’t understand, what does the USSR have to do with it, we were talking about the present stage. Why teach materiel, if you can just write nonsense, and there at least the grass does not grow.
                      And, as I understand it, you don't really know the reasons for the imports of wheat, sugar, etc. to the USSR, but you talk about them so confidently.
                      Is it okay that the main reason was simply an imbalance in prices and it was more profitable to buy it abroad than from our own farmers?
                      By the way, at the present time the USA you mentioned imports up to 10% of the total grain consumption.
                      And yet, do not be lazy and look at the statistics of grain production by varieties, before you go into verbiage.
                      1. +3
                        2 October 2021 08: 49
                        The main reason for the import of grain from the USSR is a huge herd of cattle (more than 57 million heads and 60 million heads of small livestock + 40 million heads of pigs). dairy kitchens for children, and the norms for the consumption of protein foods were scientifically substantiated and protected by law. Now the citizens of the Russian Federation are simply second-class people in their country, and foreign capital is running everything through the Kremlin's puppets.
            2. +1
              2 October 2021 08: 39
              If the dairy herd in the Russian Federation is brought to the level of the RSFSR, then in the Russian Federation there will instantly be formed not a surplus, but a shortage of grain just in the indicated sizes. Therefore, to rejoice in the export of grain, and even by foreign companies, and even such countries as Egypt and Turkey that have nothing to pay with can only - guess who?
          2. +4
            30 September 2021 10: 28
            Quote: Svarog
            compare with China ... or with the USA

            Let's compare! China has been living without coups and revolutions for 71 years, each new General Secretary does not hate the previous one and therefore is developing steadily! The USA lives without revolutions and coups for 245 ... Stas ... 245 years! How are we going to compare? In 71 years or in 245 years?
            1. +6
              30 September 2021 12: 41
              Quote: Serg65
              Let's compare! China has been living without coups and revolutions for 71 years,

              Come on ... only China is multiplying, and we are dying out ... in 71 years, if the pace continues, and everything says that they will only increase, there will be no Russians left in Russia ..
              1. -5
                30 September 2021 14: 42
                Quote: Svarog
                China is multiplying, but we are dying out ... in 71 years, if the pace continues, and everything says that they will only increase, there will be no Russians left in Russia ..

                Wang is your grandmother?
              2. 0
                1 October 2021 03: 19
                Actually, China is aging at a terrible pace, but apparently you just missed this fact. By chance?
            2. nnm
              +1
              2 October 2021 08: 54
              Whether it's our secretary general ...
        2. +4
          29 September 2021 21: 38
          Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
          Zero?

          And how little to compare with the Chinese achievements?
          1. -5
            29 September 2021 22: 11
            Are you aware that China has 10 times the population?

            Comparing Russia and China is all the same as comparing Romania and Russia militarily.
          2. 0
            30 September 2021 10: 54
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            And how little to compare with the Chinese achievements?

            To equalize with the Chinese, you must first, following their example, lie under the Americans .... will that suit you?
            1. +2
              30 September 2021 12: 08
              To equalize with the Chinese, you must first, following their example, lie under the Americans .... will that suit you?

              It will certainly suit him ...
              1. +2
                30 September 2021 13: 46
                Quote: bk316
                It will certainly suit him

                I look at the Zaputins for some interesting associations! laughing Judge by yourself?
                You should not dub the whole world under your position! wink
            2. +4
              30 September 2021 12: 42
              Quote: Serg65
              To equalize with the Chinese, you must first, following their example, lie under the Americans .... will that suit you?

              And that Boris did not report directly to Clinton? That we are not under the Americans wassat And where is the result?
              1. -1
                30 September 2021 14: 45
                Quote: Svarog
                That we are not under the Americans

                If we are under the Americans, then why are they imposing sanctions on their "colony"?
                Quote: Svarog
                And where is the result?

                China was interesting to the United States as a thorn in the butt of the USSR, we are like a thorn, who is interested?
            3. +1
              30 September 2021 13: 43
              Quote: Serg65
              we must first, following their example, lie under the Americans.

              Sergei, under whom does your power lie? wink
              On the subject - where did you get the idea that the Chinese authorities fell under the pendos? If the capitalists were allowed to move their factories to China, then this has nothing to do with "lying down". The Chinese pursued their goals, the capitalists pursued their own. This is called mutually beneficial cooperation. An analogue of a family, a symbiosis, as a result of which, by the way, your parents had you. wink
              1. +1
                30 September 2021 14: 54
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Sergei, under whom does your power lie?

                laughing Under you! If she had not been lying under you, then you and I would not have spoken wink
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                where did you get the idea that the Chinese authorities fell under the pendos?

                Have you tried to look at and comprehend the history of Sino-Soviet and Sino-American relations?
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                If the capitalists were allowed to move their production to China, then this has nothing to do with "lying down".

                what A familiar interpretation .... I realized this is the same as the marriage of the Communist Party with Khodorkovsky .... this union has no connection to the fight against the bourgeoisie!
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                An analogue of a family, a symbiosis, as a result of which, by the way, your parents had you.

                But here I did not understand .... as a result of America's wedding night with China, who appeared?
          3. +1
            30 September 2021 12: 11
            I already wrote to your sectarian Sylvester about China. We won't have it like in China. Do you know why? If in China a similar character wrote posts against vaccination on social networks and forums, then after a short amount of time he would indulge in a chifir in a labor camp. And your ... sectarian fraternity is being persuaded in social advertising. And you just need to - as in China - by the ear and into the sun, to socially useful labor.
            1. +1
              30 September 2021 12: 16
              Quote: Okolotochny
              by the ear and into the sun, to engage in socially useful work.

              This is not humane and not European!
              1. +2
                30 September 2021 14: 13
                But it is effective. That's where they would tell each other about the dangers of vaccination))
            2. +1
              30 September 2021 13: 49
              Quote: Okolotochny
              And you just need to - as in China - by the ear and into the sun, to socially useful labor.

              You would have already taken physiotherapy in China, in the form of disinfecting the forehead with brilliant green. wink
              1. 0
                30 September 2021 14: 11
                When there is nothing to answer, then the translation of "arrows" follows. Once again, your sect would be sent to a labor camp. So do not nod at China. In whatever topic you do not appear, so be sure to splash shit.
        3. -6
          29 September 2021 23: 00
          10. the palace was built for 10 billion dollars. how much more is being built?
    7. +8
      29 September 2021 20: 11
      Quote: nnm
      I understand that there must be a sea of ​​difficulties and problems. I understand that this is not the USSR, which created an atomic bomb 4 years after the war. But 8 years with a total of 0 ... maybe, after all, it is already worth stopping moving the beds ...

      ========
      Or maybe they decided that the turbines under construction would be better used for Project 22350 frigates? Such a thought never crossed your mind?
    8. +12
      29 September 2021 20: 32
      Why should Russia make a separate engine for 3 ships ?! There are also more important tasks that were solved in the decision, the power plant on project 22350.

      This project 11356 was originally created as an export project, but for Russia they made a series because they delayed the project 22350 and it was necessary at least to put something on the fleet.

      Now the frigate of project 22350 has gone to the series, so why should we build also project 11356 which is obviously weaker.
      1. +2
        30 September 2021 09: 38
        Rather, the decision is correct. Project 22350 is a more advanced ship. They sold the ships, earned money, and used the power plants to build them. The main thing is that they are not spread apart, the funds.
        1. 0
          30 September 2021 20: 31
          We have already attached the bottom to these bins of the state. Do not bother.
    9. 0
      30 September 2021 09: 48
      Quote: nnm
      8 years with 0 total

      If instead of moving the beds, you were interested in the problem, you would be surprised to find out that your score was 5: 0.
    10. +2
      30 September 2021 12: 29
      Quote: nnm
      To be honest, it just does not fit in my mind how our country was unable to create its own power plant. Almost 2014 years have passed since 8. ... Well, how is that ?!

      And I still can't understand how the main communists of the USSR destroyed the country, betrayed us. handed out people to nizalizhnymi "ukraYnym" like serfs, and now many are outraged that the ship's power plants were doing in the Ukrainian SSR?
    11. +2
      30 September 2021 12: 42
      Quote: nnm
      To be honest, it just does not fit in my mind how our country was unable to create its own power plant. Almost 2014 years have passed since 8. ... Well, how is that ?!

      That's how. Even the mighty USSR had problems with the release of ship-borne gas turbine engines - suffice it to recall the history of the appearance of KTU on the EM of project 956.
      It's not about the power plant itself. The fact is that even the USSR had a single plant for the production of ship-borne gas turbine engines - the same "Zorya-Mashproekt". And before making your own power plant, it was necessary to build the same plant (more precisely, to complete the missing workshops) in our country. In addition, the main efforts were focused on import substitution of the power plant of project 22350, which completely covers project 11356R in terms of performance characteristics.
      In general, the manufacture of ship-borne gas turbine engines is such a "simple" business that in the world, EMNIP, only three companies had a full cycle of their production - GE, RR and Zorya-Mashproekt. The rest worked with the technical support of one of these three (like the same Chinese tied to Ukraine).
    12. -2
      30 September 2021 15: 01
      USSR, which created an atomic bomb 4 years after the war


      mostly - a commune ... shy) in any case, it definitely influenced the term
    13. -2
      30 September 2021 15: 07
      And the Unified State Examination education in the minds does not fit. Even our president does not need those who are very literate. The other day I gave an order to make life easier for schoolchildren-dunce
    14. +1
      1 October 2021 00: 20
      The Soviet Union received from intelligence a complete set of bomb documentation.
  4. -1
    29 September 2021 18: 29
    It is necessary to finally resolve the issue with the entertainers of these gaps, both domestic and with neighboring ones.
  5. 0
    29 September 2021 18: 38
    We can always be able to! )))
  6. +2
    29 September 2021 18: 45
    2021: Comrade Stalin would ask: "And what, Comrade Mekhlis, is it true that we do not have enough corABLE diesels, but the Chinese have enough?"
    1. nnm
      +3
      29 September 2021 18: 52
      Think right, colleague:
      1. +4
        29 September 2021 21: 42
        Mehlis was in charge in the Crimea .....
        1. 0
          30 September 2021 09: 41
          We discussed it recently. Mekhlis is a political worker, commanded by the generals. The IVS made a mistake, which put a knowingly helpless person in command of the troops. Why, the question?
      2. -1
        30 September 2021 12: 55
        Hurray for the great Stalin!
    2. +1
      30 September 2021 12: 48
      Quote: ankir13
      2021: Comrade Stalin would ask: "And what, Comrade Mekhlis, is it true that we do not have enough corABLE diesels, but the Chinese have enough?"

      And comrade Mehlis would answer: "Comrade Stalin, diesel engines cannot replace a gas turbine. And according to the GTE production program, China is too tightly tied to cooperation with Ukraine and will not risk its fleet building program for the sake of our three ships".
  7. +3
    29 September 2021 19: 22
    Everything that is not done is for the better! Do you need some problems with motors from our adored neighbors? Creating a turbine specifically for small series ships that have more advanced analogues is not a priority task. Then, perhaps, something will be decided and this series will make their own engine. Who knows?
  8. -5
    29 September 2021 19: 31
    An article from the cycle "everything is lost".
  9. +2
    29 September 2021 19: 34
    Will Indians get those turbines that Russia has already paid for?
    1. +1
      29 September 2021 20: 32
      Probably yes. That is, if the cost of the sold "troughs" Russian managers have included the cost of engines, then everything seems to be the way. Well, who knows. Everything is not transparent.
  10. +2
    29 September 2021 19: 56
    It was originally planned to build six such ships.
    Actually, nine - six for the Black Sea Fleet and three for the Pacific Fleet
    Import substitution, which "confidently walked" in various industries of our country, broke both legs on marine engines.
    The author wants to say that it was necessary to launch a production line for outdated power plants, which, apart from these ships, would not have gone anywhere? Hmm ...
  11. +1
    29 September 2021 20: 26
    It's funny sometimes the economy works. And if they also sold weapons with the Russian, what was supposed to be under the project, at a loss, I think, Russia did not remain.
  12. +1
    29 September 2021 21: 08
    I read that Zorya-Mashproekt has already signed a contract with India for the supply of two more M7N2 power plants for 100 LAMs
  13. +3
    29 September 2021 21: 43
    Project 11356 frigates are very weak ships for their class, which were forced to build due to delays in the construction of project 22350 frigates.
    It is good that at least some of them were able to sell to India (over time, it would be good to sell all of them, converting them into an export version).

    Russia needs frigates of projects 22350 and 22350M! Their construction needs to be accelerated as much as possible by investing the appropriate funds, including those received from the sale of frigates of Project 11356.
  14. +1
    29 September 2021 22: 17
    Quote: nnm
    To be honest, it just does not fit in my mind how our country was unable to create its own power plant. Almost 2014 years have passed since 8. ... Well, how is that ?!
    I understand that there must be a sea of ​​difficulties and problems. I understand that this is not the USSR, which created an atomic bomb 4 years after the war. But 8 years with a total of 0 ... maybe, after all, it is already worth stopping moving the beds ...


    The previous generation of marine engines was created at a time when people were responsible for the execution of production programs with their own heads. And today some scoundrels have drowned a unique floating dock, without which the repair of "Admiral Kuznetsov" turned into an endless burden. And no one bore any responsibility. So why are you surprised?
  15. +2
    29 September 2021 22: 38
    Trucks with Chinese motors, ships, motoblocks. It remains to transfer the tanks to China. There is still no "breakthrough" here.
  16. +4
    29 September 2021 23: 25
    Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
    1. Strategic nuclear submarines "Borey" 5 built,
    2. Multipurpose nuclear submarine "Yasen-M" 3 built

    The fleet seems to have been transferred so far 4 Boreas (201-204) and 1 Ash-M (161), and you just Ash - forgot 1 pc
  17. +2
    30 September 2021 06: 31
    Well, thank God that they finally shaved off.
    I remember that I was very surprised when it was announced that only two out of three were sold to the Indians. An obvious jamb of our negotiators.
    Well, now, apparently, they danced in front of the Indians as they should, sagged deeper, promised more nishtyaks ...
    1. +2
      30 September 2021 08: 19
      There, the Indians have their own mega P17A just riveted. 7 ships of the 1st series are already under construction - 2 on the water. It's just that the Hindu shipbuilding is such that Rakhmanov is probably drooling, because for such miscalculations, delays, cost overruns, he would even be jailed.

      Nigiri (17A) in generation 22350 / FREMM / Mogami and other modern frigates - 2 UKSK8 (16 Brahmos), 32 Barak missiles, two helicopters, advanced radio-electronic weapons.


  18. +1
    30 September 2021 08: 10
    USC Alexei Rakhmanov said that the last, sixth "Petrel" will also be sold. Without specifying who, but it is clear that India


    Is not a fact. Vietnam is now looking for a frigate for affordable money. Also, after the change of power, Myanmar has problems with the Koreans who were supposed to build a frigate for them. But Myanmar Zora will not be allowed to sell the turbines, most likely.
  19. -1
    30 September 2021 09: 29
    THIS, such situations, should in no case be forgotten, but you should ALWAYS REMEMBER and not get into such situations in the future, if we are, of course, smart people:
    This is me about the author's paragraph: "And the situation itself, when there is a ship, but there are no engines for it, is flawed nonsense. I want to forget that we were in this position, and forget as soon as possible."
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  22. -4
    30 September 2021 10: 37
    But what about the screams of the patriots that all the specialists fled from Ukraine to Russia ?? it turns out they didn’t run away! t there are no such specialists in russia !! That would be the Nightingale Zaputinsky on television would show such a plot in his talk show ?? but no --- such a Russian failure cannot be shown to the whole country
    1. -1
      30 September 2021 13: 26
      Oh, the patriots minus me! I gave the current facts, and you put the minuses!
      And if we tell the truth to the end, then good specialists from Ukraine will rush to China or the west, they will be paid worthy money there, and not Putin's crumbs !! And in Ukraine they have more salaries than Russian ones!
      Look less Solovyov, Skabeeva and other propagandists
      1. 0
        1 October 2021 08: 37
        Well, tell us what salaries are in Ukraine.
        1. -1
          4 October 2021 13: 43
          good ones! for example, the rate of an ambulance driver in Chernihiv is UAH 16100. and in kaluga 24000 rubles! and infa is 10000% correct, since my best army friend works in an ambulance in Chernigov
          Convert hryvnia to rubles and feel the difference
          And in kaluga, with all the allowances for class and work experience more than 33000, the rate does not come out. So people shit at 1.5 rates to make more or less normal money
          1. 0
            4 October 2021 16: 27
            At first I thought that 161 thousand hryvnia ...
            In Kaluga, for comparison, you took the driver's rate, where you don't need to work?
            If in Moscow the last driver on a small bunker truck is less than 40 thousand. does not receive, but there they take strictly handy people, and they are also required.
            And for a specialist 70 thousand on hand, how hello.
            And there are also shifts to the north - 2 months there, one at home.
            Who does not want to work, that and 24 thousand a lot.
            Not a good example with Ukraine.
            1. -1
              4 October 2021 16: 40
              the rate is the same - the ambulance driver
              1. +1
                4 October 2021 17: 08
                And the court decided to go there, is it a duty or have you dreamed of working in an ambulance all your life?
                There will be a deficit, and there will be an increase.
                A relative of mine in Kaluga works as a "wasteland" guard and gets 40 thousand rubles.
          2. 0
            5 October 2021 21: 04
            Quote: helloween
            .... for example, the rate of an ambulance driver in Chernihiv is UAH 16100.

            utter nonsense! There is no such salary. in Ukraine for such positions !!! Even if you work for THREE rates !!!
    2. +2
      1 October 2021 08: 40
      The point is not only in the specialists "escaped" from Ukraine, it is impossible to start producing everything right away, here it is elementary to debug technologies, production and tooling, and why make copies of obsolete products if you can do better.
  23. +2
    30 September 2021 12: 24
    In any case, it would be necessary to master the new gas turbine engine. Ukraine, with further 'drift' in the EU, will still not be allowed to produce military equipment and will be completely transferred to the NATO model
  24. +3
    30 September 2021 12: 32
    In general, the very history of building frigates of two types (pr. 22350 and 11356R) at the same time is a very peculiar situation. In general, this practice is not used in the world, except perhaps from very poor countries that acquire ships on the secondary market. Others prefer to avoid ships of different types, since this significantly increases the cost of operation, maintenance and repair of ships.

    This is a normal situation for a country that, 20 years later, remembered that it has a fleet. smile
    From the very beginning, it was said that FR pr.11356R were ordered only because there was a project for them, a chain of subcontractors and an established production, so that they could be quickly built and completed. In fact, the 11356R is a naval analogue of the Su-30SM, Su-30M2 and MiG-29KR: serially produced export projects, minimally modified to meet the requirements of the RF Ministry of Defense.
    At the same time, it was clear to everyone that in terms of performance characteristics, pr. 11356R is a clear average and inferior to pr. 22350. But against the background of many years of problems with Polyment-Redut, it was decided that tit in hand the speed of construction is more important, because the ships of the Black Sea Fleet brigade of surface ships required urgent replacement and could simply not wait for the "wunderwaffe". From this point of view, the situation with the order of the Mi-35 can be considered an analogue: yes, the Ka-52 and Mi-28 are better in terms of performance characteristics, only helicopters are needed right now, and new projects are frankly crude and require a long refinement.

    As soon as the engines for the project 11356R were gone, the project lost its main and only advantage: the speed of construction. For the priority for the "Saturn" was the power plant for the project 22350. And then the finishing of the "Polyment-Reduta" was completed. In general, instead of tit in hands or pie in the sky the fleet was given a choice between a tit in hand and a crane in hand.
  25. -1
    30 September 2021 15: 18
    It's really nice to know that the situation has changed. Dependence on Ukraine in the person of three frigates of project 11356R was sold to India, the Indians order engines from the Ukrainians, in general, everyone is happy.
    "Everything is fine, beautiful marquise! Business is progressing and life is easy! Not a single sad surprise, except for a trifle .........."
  26. 0
    30 September 2021 23: 14
    The solution is positive for Russia in overall terms. The Project 2235 (0/5/6) is stronger than the Project 1135 (/ 1/6).

    Russia Additionally is advancing in the import substitution, not only in the referred to new material, also in the referred to spare parts. With the end of the process of reduction of the combat fleets inherited from the Soviet Union, canibalization is not more a good option for maintenance, and to advance in the production of spare parts is also important for Russia.
  27. -1
    1 October 2021 08: 31
    Well, we could not build the necessary power plant ourselves (I hope so far), but why then did they supply it from Ukraine, because it was possible to buy any for India?
  28. -1
    1 October 2021 23: 04
    It is a pity that they could not provide a "domestic fiery engine" for a well-mastered ship, project 1135. In 79-82 I had to work on several TFRs of this project at the Northern Fleet and the Baltic Fleet.
    ---
    And the fact that the Indians will have a Ukrainian .. GTZU is a plus for the Russian Federation. Through the Indians it will be possible to get some spare parts for repairs from "Zarya - mashproekt" for the ships of the Russian Navy from the Ukrainian. engines. ... Unofficially, of course. As in Soviet times, through several intermediaries, we received precision machine tools prohibited for delivery to the USSR.
  29. -1
    2 October 2021 15: 50
    It's sad about the uncertainty. Have ships of the type of each creature in pairs. We need unification like sworn friends from overseas and industry successes.
  30. -1
    3 October 2021 13: 57
    Quote: Bearded
    And what is it for Ukraine to impose sanctions on Russia so that the hulls of our three corvettes hang on our stocks? Well, Ukrainians are ready to help the achressor for bucks. laughing

    uk ry MUST walk softly, as if a decanter with a nuclear bomb was placed on their head. Otherwise, Russian megatons may fall on their sanctions. Refusing to supply something is one thing. But to start barking LOUD is another matter.
  31. 0
    3 October 2021 14: 06
    Quote: helloween
    But what about the screams of the patriots that all the specialists fled from Ukraine to Russia ?? it turns out they didn’t run away! t there are no such specialists in russia !! That would be the Nightingale Zaputinsky on television would show such a plot in his talk show ?? but no --- such a Russian failure cannot be shown to the whole country

    The fools do not know that it is not only a matter of a very limited number of "specialists". This is nonsense, in comparison with those developments, the list of materials, components used to manufacture complex equipment. All this must be kept not in the warehouses of an already hostile state, but at home. Let me give you an example from my own life. Our factory, where I worked for a long time, produced 77 serial products. The number of equipment at the same time reached 12 thousand units. More than 3 thousand items of components. To have the AMOUNT of this shit when you release a similar and your own development? Moreover, if the conversation is not about tens of thousands of products per year, but about three to ten.
  32. The comment was deleted.
  33. -1
    4 October 2021 06: 16
    To the Indians ???
    Her. Never!!!
    It is better to sail on barrels than to take from the Indians !!!
  34. 0
    6 October 2021 14: 13
    Or maybe there is a tricky move - we agreed with the Indians that they kind of buy for themselves, and then, under the guise of such, overtake them to us under different names for major repairs. And the question seems to be resolved :)) This option suggests itself.
    And I think that something like this will be done with helicopter carriers, like they were bought by Egypt, but they will pop up somewhere here :)).
  35. -1
    17 October 2021 10: 36
    What is the joy? The fact that one colony of the Anglo-Anglo-Saxons was deprived of the opportunity to supply engines for the military-industrial complex of Russia, and the second colony of the Anglo-Saxons received such an opportunity?
  36. 0
    22 October 2021 11: 57
    Only cats will be born quickly. And against Zorya-Mashproekt, Russia should impose tough sanctions. Ukroskoty should twist the tails of pigs, and not make turbines.
  37. 0
    28 November 2021 09: 50
    Some strange title. Well, clearly does not correspond to the meaning of the article.
  38. 0
    30 November 2021 17: 00
    It is a shame and a shame that for so many years they have not learned how to make marine engines in Russia. During the Soviet era, I read how our inventor made a machine for the manufacture of spring washers. It fit in a regular suitcase. The Swiss counterpart was 10 times larger. Suppliers went to this guy and he riveted washers for them in the kitchen. wassat
  39. 0
    2 December 2021 14: 20
    Well ... The dog barks, the caravan moves on. Mass media print "fried news", Reviews on news are written, news on reviews again ... And the ships are entered into the Russian Navy. Not as fast as we would like, but they are being introduced.
  40. 0
    8 December 2021 21: 51
    GTUs for frigates 22350 are manufactured in the Yaroslavl region in the city of Rybinsk. Calm down, everything is good !!!!!!!!
  41. 0
    12 December 2021 02: 52
    Why, then, the Chinese comrades copy everything that does not hit and lies badly, and everything works out for them? Maybe the demand is different and the responsibility? Isn't it time to revive the sharas? Or are we not too hot yet?
    1. +1
      16 December 2021 19: 14
      Quote: Gennady Zavalov_2
      Isn't it time to revive the sharas?

      No, it's just high time to send the forest to saw a number of "wise" managers in the Kolyma.
  42. 0
    14 December 2021 21: 35
    Messrs. Journalists. It turns out in your opinion that for 8 years our designers have not been able to make a power plant? That is, the Chinese can and ours cannot? As far as I remember, many specialists moved from Ukraine to Russia. Or is it the same no. And further. They trumpet us that there are no normal factories left in Ukraine at all. And you write what it turns out to be. I don’t understand you
    1. -2
      16 December 2021 19: 09
      Well, you can't read the comments under the article, can you? If only they had read it, they would not have asked the same questions on the third round ...
      1. 0
        16 December 2021 19: 29
        Quote: vervolk
        If only they had read it, they would not have asked the same questions on the third round ...

        And that there are intelligible answers to his questions? Show then where they are. And tell me, what did you have in the Russian language at school? Or do you "love" the Russian Federation from some kind of "Sunny Beach, Azure Ocean"? Somehow your Russian language is not very good, is it not your native language?
  43. 0
    18 December 2021 10: 35
    Ships must be built so that they do not need to repair their engines for the entire service life. For example, today diesel engines with a service life of 40 hours can be made without any problems. resource generators and even more. The average weight of diesel generator sets does not exceed 000 kg per kW. Thus, for a 10 strong installation, no more than 25 tons will be required. Of course, this is not 000 tons of gas turbine, but not all of the weight can be considered harmful. Plus, you need half the fuel.
    We make these engines flat at 500-1000 hp. (or any shape, respectively, of the slot where we plan to push them), tightly weld in the double-bottom compartments. The nuances of changing lubricants, fuel and air supply, and gas evacuation can be solved. And we get a propulsion system with unsurpassed power flexibility, twice the efficiency of a gas turbine, and the most reliable. The breakdown of one diesel engine during service is likely, but does not interfere with the use of the ship.
    Plus, there is no excess weight, low-lying diesel engines act as ballast.
    In principle, the hull of a ship with such engines turns into a universal platform for any purpose. Internal volumes are free from the engine room. Fundamental refusal of repair and maintenance allows to reduce the size of the crew. The small weight and size of each engine makes them easy to change. The uniformity of engines for the destroyer and aircraft carrier simplifies production and replacement. It is easier to make 100 diesels of 000 kW each than 1000 diesels of 1000 kW.
    Well, the vibrations are much less than from one large engine.
    1. 0
      18 December 2021 10: 51
      Quote: also a doctor
      The uniformity of engines for the destroyer and aircraft carrier simplifies production and replacement. It is easier to make 100 diesels of 000 kW each than 1000 diesels of 1000 kW.
      Well, the vibrations are much less than from one large engine.


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