During the exercise, Russian T-72B3 tanks fired from camouflaged positions

The international anti-terrorist maneuvers Peace Mission 2021, in which the servicemen of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) countries participated, were held at the Donguz training ground in the Orenburg region. In these exercises, among other training activities, Russian main combat Tanks T-72B3 fired from camouflaged positions.

The video of these trainings was published by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on its YouTube channel.

During the firing, the tanks successfully hit all targets. The tactics they used are among the defensive warfare tactics. According to the scenario, the task of the tank unit was to destroy the forces of the advancing enemy.

In order not to be destroyed by enemy fire from the ground or from the air, the tank hid in specially prepared camouflaged shelters, left them to aim a 125 mm caliber gun at the enemy's military equipment and hit the enemy, and then returned to the shelter until they opened fire on it. ... Inside it, the combat vehicle turned around in order to then change the firing position. At the same time, a camouflage device, which is a protective screen, does not allow the detection of armored vehicles from the air.

Comments

[Ros 56]

This is the first time I've seen such a huge camouflage caponier.

[seregatara1969]

The article is so-so. Aftop did not see the teachings at all. How could a tank turn around in tight cover? And so the idea with a change of position and a large caponier is interesting. A lot of earth has been dug up.

[Terenin]

Quote: Ros 56

This is the first time I've seen such a huge camouflage caponier.

I think this is the first stage of camouflage after the drones.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Ros 56

This is the first time I've seen such a huge camouflage caponier.

I see the following meaning in it: under the net and in combination with false heat sources, it is completely unclear in which part of the caponier the tank is located. In a caponier of normal size, everything is absolutely clear with the position of the tank.

[YOUR]

Watch the video from 28 seconds. In general, it is a so-so shelter, from the air it is perfectly visible.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: YOUR

In general, it is a so-so shelter, from the air it is perfectly visible.

It's clear that? Shelter, but the tank is no longer visible in it. And the high-precision tank in it cannot be hit with something, unlike the usual caponier, one-seater, so to speak. )))

[Old tanker]

We practiced this technique of firing in defense back in 2010 in Mulino.
The company was dug in in this way for almost a week with the help of engineering equipment. And this is on sandy soils! And the disguise of such positions is still hemorrhoids!
Time consuming and ineffective position.

[kind]

This is certainly good, but what's new in this?

[Cat Alexandrovich]

What's new in this news is that the editorial board of VO posted this "news" in its "news" section. And so, nothing new ...

[Brturin]

new ... maybe mesh ...

At the same time, a camouflage device, which is a protective screen, does not allow the detection of armored vehicles from the air.

maybe this development was brought

the developed prototype of an electrically controlled material, capable of changing color depending on the masked surface and the environment, will in the future be applied to military equipment and equipment of Russian military personnel. It can simulate complex graphics such as foliage swaying in the wind, as well as display color changes. .... The material is electrically controlled, but does not require a large amount of energy. For a color change, no more than once every 1,5 seconds, from 4 to 20 W is spent per one square meter. meter of coverage. https://topwar.ru/145813-tkan-hameleon-rosteh-predstavljaet-novoe-maskirujuschee-pokrytie.html

maybe a radio-absorbing material based on filaments with a nanostructured ferromagnetic microwire (this is true for winter) ... maybe something else ...

[Professor]

You cannot hide from a thermal imaging seeker behind such a grid.

[Evil troll]

Thermal imaging seeker of what?

[Professor]

Quote: Angry Troll

Thermal imaging seeker of what?

ATGM or kamikaze drone

[knn54]

Oleg, the tank in the caponier is practically motionless. We need a more warm-contrast, possibly inactive, false target.
PS I just remembered the comedy film "Restless Economy"

[Professor]

Quote: knn54

Oleg, the tank in the caponier is practically motionless. We just need a more warm-contrast, possibly inactive, false target.

The GOS of Spike and even Javelin is aimed not at the brightest target, but at the image of the target.

Pay attention to the burning barrels. Have you helped?


In Karabakh, GOS Spayka calmly took stationary armored vehicles littered with branches with foliage.

[Usher]

Quote: professor

Quote: knn54

Oleg, the tank in the caponier is practically motionless. We just need a more warm-contrast, possibly inactive, false target.

The GOS of Spike and even Javelin is aimed not at the brightest target, but at the image of the target.

Pay attention to the burning barrels. Have you helped?


In Karabakh, GOS Spayka calmly took stationary armored vehicles littered with branches with foliage.

Why different videos from the aiming head and in fact? We got into different containers)

[Professor]

This is a cutting of different shooting. There is both from the seeker and from the side for all the "containers".

[abc_alex]

Quote: professor

The GOS of Spike and even Javelin is aimed not at the brightest target, but at the image of the target.

What is the target image? What is the GOS? What does brightness have to do with it? In the video - shooting at a container, does the spike in the GOS have images of containers? Spike is a flying TV camera. There is even an explanation in the video.
10 km - Fiber optic data link
18 km - RF data link

Do you need to translate or do you yourself admit that they have frozen the garbage? The spike is guided by the operator, the operator also recognizes the targets.
However, if you consider the Tsahal's fighter as a component of an ATGM, such as the GOS, then yes, you are right. Spike is guided in the image of the target. Man, however, recognizes images. :)
It is not surprising that "In Karabakh, the GOS Spayka calmly took stationary armored vehicles littered with branches." If the GOS is a person. A similar "GOS" "Attack" hits targets even inside the bunkers through the embrasure. :)

[Professor]

Quote: abc_alex

What is the target image? What is the GOS? What does brightness have to do with it? In the video - shooting at a container, does the spike in the GOS have images of containers? Spike is a flying TV camera.

Yes. They canceled the "fire-forget" regime as not kosher. No? How, then, is "fire and forget" carried out if not in the image of the target?

Quote: abc_alex

There is even an explanation in the video.
10 km - Fiber optic data link
18 km - RF data link

Well? Correction can be carried out at such ranges.

Quote: abc_alex

Do you need to translate or do you yourself admit that they have frozen the garbage? The spike is guided by the operator, the operator also recognizes the targets.

Until the AI ​​is established, the operator recognizes the target, "locks" (locking) the mark on it, and then the rocket itself in the image of the target that the operator has designated it.
For example here. A characteristic square around the target shows that the GOS is "closed" on the target and itself accompanies the target in the image of the target.


Here the operator closes the seeker on the target (window) at 2:04 and then the rocket itself is in the image of the target ...

Quote: abc_alex

However, if you consider the Tsahal's fighter as a component of an ATGM, such as the GOS, then yes, you are right. Spike is guided in the image of the target. Man, however, recognizes images. :)
It is not surprising that "In Karabakh, the GOS Spayka calmly took stationary armored vehicles littered with branches." If the GOS is a person. A similar "GOS" "Attack" hits targets even inside the bunkers through the embrasure. :)

Of course calm. These branches do not interfere with the thermal imager. And when the operator closed the seeker on the target, the seeker confidently held the target.

Javelin works in approximately the same way, but there is no feedback in it and, accordingly, adjustment is not possible. You cannot first shoot and only after that close the seeker on the target. In Spike, you can. A fully manual flying camera is also possible in Spike.

[Evil troll]

So I can see how the infantry with the backslides at the ready is running to storm the dug-in tanks.

[Professor]

Quote: Angry Troll

So I can see how the infantry with the backslides at the ready is running to storm the dug-in tanks.

This is exactly what happened in Karabakh. Armenians are no longer ironic about this.

[Evil troll]

And I have big doubts that the Russian army will exactly.

[Professor]

Quote: Angry Troll

And I have big doubts that the Russian army will exactly.

Well, yes. After all, there were not the same tanks in Karabakh, and graduates of the same military schools fought according to the same regulations.

Quote: ved_med12

And also, you can run up and throw hand grenades ... As during WWII!
Nobody says that this is a panacea, but better than in the open field. Do not agree?

I disagree. This creates a dangerous illusion of security. Better in an open field.

[Evil troll]

Something tells me that yes, not according to the regulations.

[abc_alex]

Quote: professor

Well, yes. After all, there were not the same tanks in Karabakh, and graduates of the same military schools fought according to the same regulations.

Professor, are you starting to broadcast your miraculous miracles again? "The same statutes" have not been in effect for 30 years. And the graduates have long been not from "those schools" and not even from "those armies." The network is full of photos of destroyed military equipment from Karabakh and in the overwhelming majority of cases it is generally out of cover.

It has been said many times that in Karabakh the Armenians stupidly scored a full-fledged shelter of tanks. You can no longer upload pictures to the server, so just links to photos. I think you own a copy-paste?
https://cdnn11.img.sputnik.by/img/07e4/09/1b/1045767615_0:0:2498:1622_1440x900_80_0_1_aeacc29b072897aa325b550137602025.jpg.webp?source-sid=rian_photo

I think you have enough common sense to understand how the Russian tank bunker shown in the video differs from the Armenian tank enclosure with cilantro and dill?

[Professor]

The statutes have not been in effect for 30 years and the army has turned into a gang? Are Armenian officers now graduating from military schools in the United States, not the Russian Federation? Is not the T-72 in service with Armenia, but the Abrams? This is news.

As you put it, "the network is full of photos", but also a disguised technique. I will not even show it just hidden in caponiers.
The armored vehicles are dug in and camouflaged with branches. Did it help?

Did the mesh help?

By the way, it is impossible for you to determine from the ostentatious photos whether the tanks were on the march, in the attack or in cover.

That the Russian, that the Armenian "tank enclosure" is equally useless, that against Spike, that against Harop. I hope there is no need to explain the reason?

And in the visible spectrum, there is unmasking white smoke.

[sifgame]

Let everything be as you say and the tanks are the same and the regulations and schools, only the army was not Russian.

[Professor]

Quote: sifgame

Let everything be as you say and the tanks are the same and the regulations and schools, only the army was not Russian.

And?

[sifgame]

Something and that. It won't be like that with the Russian one.

[Professor]

Quote: sifgame

Something and that. It won't be like that with the Russian one.

How will it be?

[ved_med12]

And also, you can run up and throw hand grenades ... As during WWII!
Nobody says that this is a panacea, but better than in the open field. Do not agree?

[Konnick]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FsQU1Sqp4rU
Disguise of the times of the Great Patriotic War, although no. Worse, they plowed up the virgin soil so that you can see from space. Is it possible to equip stationary positions in modern combat ... the achievement of military thought is a caponier with two trips, a masterpiece. Better three, like playing thimbles.

[A. Privalov]

With the advent of Spike NLOS (Non Line Of Sight), all these tricks have practically lost their effectiveness. The system confidently hits stationary and mobile objects from a distance of 25-30 km at a speed of 540-600 km / h.

[Professor]

Quote: A. Privalov

The system confidently hits stationary and mobile objects from a distance of 25-30 km at a speed of 540-600 km / h.

The extreme UVOC officially has a range of 32 km.

[Lara Croft]

Quote: professor

Quote: A. Privalov

The system confidently hits stationary and mobile objects from a distance of 25-30 km at a speed of 540-600 km / h.

The extreme UVOC officially has a range of 32 km.

Expensive system. However, the labor collectives of Palestine and Yemen are coping with the IDF and KSA Armed Forces tanks equipped with KAZ and old Soviet PTS ...

[aszzz888]

Lara Croft
Yesterday, 22: 13

-2
Quote: professor
Quote: A. Privalov
The system confidently hits stationary and mobile objects from a distance of 25-30 km at a speed of 540-600 km / h.

The extreme UVOC officially has a range of 32 km.

Expensive system. However, the labor collectives of Palestine and Yemen are dealing with tanks IDF and the KSA Armed Forces equipped with KAZ and old Soviet PTS ...

And with great success! How this jarred it's some comradeccher!

[aszzz888]

A. Privalov (Alexander Privalov)
Yesterday, 20: 13
0
With the advent of Spike NLOS (Non Line Of Sight), all these tricks have practically lost their effectiveness.

Taki хthen bи doubted))! Because it is, however, a completely rotten ear

ear
ears, spike,spica

[olegff68]

Well, how would it be - if a civilian drone quite sees for itself and removes this caponier for a patriotic picture, then what is the problem of detecting this position by a military drone, with more advanced detection / guidance means ???

[svp67]

Hmm ... in the 80s we performed this in the GSVG even then. yes, this was a find, tactically, but now, 40 years later ... something new can be invented

[aszzz888]

svp67 (Sergey)
Yesterday, 20: 14
+1
Hmm ... in the 80s we performed this in the GSVG even then. yes, it was a find, tactically, but now, 40 years later ... newest you can come up with something

Everything "new" is well forgotten old!

[andreykolesov123]

Quote: svp67

Hmm ... in the 80s we performed this in the GSVG even then. yes, this was a find, tactically, but now, 40 years later ... something new can be invented

In conditions of air domination by the enemy, tank attacks outside the city almost lost their meaning. Tanks simply won't make it to the battlefield. In the city, the tank has not lost its meaning yet, but it requires additional equipment with protective equipment such as KAZ, active armor.

[svp67]

Quote: andreykolesov123

In conditions of air domination by the enemy,

And in his absence? When, what are ours, that the enemy's air defense forces "will not take off themselves and will not give to others"?

[andreykolesov123]

Quote: svp67

And in his absence? When, what are ours, that the enemy's air defense forces "will not take off themselves and will not give to others"?

There is no such thing. Modern warfare begins in the air. He was able to take the initiative into his own hands by "draining" the enemy's air force and suppressing its air defense, which means he won the war. The Azerbaijanis won the war, thanks to the "corn workers", having found out the location of the Armenian air defense batteries. Having seized the initiative, they then simply gradually knocked out the Armenians with drones.

[svp67]

Quote: andreykolesov123

There is no such thing.

What are you talking about ... The history of aviation in the second half of the 20th century is full of examples of how this happened.

Quote: andreykolesov123

Modern warfare begins in the air.

Ha..ha ... Any war starts in the offices

Quote: andreykolesov123

He was able to take the initiative into his own hands by "draining" the enemy's air force and suppressing its air defense, which means he won the war.

Not always, and your troops in 1973 proved it.

Quote: andreykolesov123

The Azerbaijanis won the war, thanks to the "corn workers", having found out the location of the Armenian air defense batteries.

You tell this "anecdote" in other places.

[andreykolesov123]

Quote: svp67

What are you talking about ... The history of aviation in the second half of the 20th century is full of examples of how this happened

for example?

Quote: svp67

Ha..ha ... Any war starts in the offices

Which one of us is a Jew? Why are we clever?

Not always, and your troops in 1973 proved it.

Quote: svp67

Not always, and your troops in 1973 proved it.

Are you saying that hel avir did not work in the 1973 war?

Quote: svp67

You tell this "anecdote" in other places.

And you continue to dig caponiers for tanks.

[svp67]

Quote: andreykolesov123

for example?

Yes, take the Korean and Vietnamese, how many times the Americans stopped their aviation, after suffering heavy losses ...

Quote: andreykolesov123

Which one of us is a Jew?

Alas, I definitely don't

Quote: andreykolesov123

Why are we clever?

Well, not all of your tribe ...

Quote: andreykolesov123

Are you saying that hel avir did not work in the 1973 war?

I want to say that at the first stage, her capabilities were STRONGLY limited.

Quote: andreykolesov123

And you continue to dig caponiers for tanks.

Let's figure it out without "snotty" ....

[andreykolesov123]

Quote: svp67

Yes, take the Korean and Vietnamese, how many times the Americans stopped their aviation, after suffering heavy losses ...

Well, that's what we are talking about, without domination in the air, there is no way to conduct offensive operations.

Quote: svp67

Well, not all of your tribe ...

Is that all for your tribe?

Quote: svp67

I want to say that at the first stage, her capabilities were STRONGLY limited.

The 1973 war was started by the Arab countries, Israel was the defending side. Unable to maintain air superiority, the Arabs lost that war, despite the fact that in the beginning they had a clear advantage. And where is the contradiction with my statement?

Quote: svp67

Let's figure it out without "snotty" ....

You will throw your hats as always.

[Prisoner]

And Sho ?! And before that, during the exercises, they thrashed from the hill on which they sat like a louse on a bald head? Wait!

[Agent cooper]

It is a pity that only conflicts force ass-headed generals to introduce changes in battle tactics.

It is obvious that the lessons of Karabakh have been learned. And how many still unrecovered remained God alone knows.

[Borisych]

Disguised position. In the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, the generals were given a shovel. They dug. The journalists who wrote this were given two. Digging. And the company tanker was given thirty, according to the number of personnel unoccupied with writing reports. Digging. I dug too. All army life. Together with the company. For the tank. Trench. Shovel. And not a single general gave me a stinking bulldozer for me to skip.

[svoit]

Quote: Konnick

... Is it possible to equip stationary positions in modern combat?

the maneuvers were anti-terrorist, so there was a hope that they had nothing better than tow2

[Gavrohs]

In the offensive, it means umbrellas, and in the defense, a caponier with a covered net is not a decision, this is stupidity!

[Generator Systems]

And where did our miracle Armata go? and what's new in this news shot and shoot?

[Bradley]

Nothing new.

During the firing, the tanks successfully hit all targets. The tactics they used are among the defensive warfare tactics.

And for a long time, both here and in the West.

[Azimuth]

Quote: Agent Cooper

It is a pity that only conflicts force ass-headed generals to introduce changes in battle tactics.

It is obvious that the lessons of Karabakh have been learned. And how many still unrecovered remained God alone knows.

Judging by the circus that you and I have watched, no conclusions were made by the ass-headed generals. If there is a war, then according to our already rooted, old and good tradition, lieutenants - colonels will be spinning like snakes in a frying pan, thinking how to survive for their units, and even completing the task set by the generals. How many generals remembered the experience of Afghanistan when we entered Chechnya, and this is by the way with the Afghan Minister of Defense? Combat experience was not systematized, but passed from mouth to mouth, in fact, only through continuity. Where the chain of succession was broken, the experience was lost forever and we again learned from blood.

The war in this microscopic Karabakh, its course and results, on good terms, should have provoked the Brownian movement in our country, and here we have a swamp like a swamp as before. They shot a reportage in the key of "the chronicle of a madhouse", all that is new so we have a website, well, they hung it up on the site for public viewing to amuse people. And that's it.
What is the feature of this war, a very important feature for us? - it was a full-fledged war of two regular armies, fairly equal and full-fledged armies, and not an operation of the elite of the armed forces like the MTR or the Airborne Forces against the barmaley on tatsanks-pickups. For several decades we have not had experience of war with the enemy's regular army.
Someone will object, they say, but what about the war with Georgia in 2008 and the conclusions drawn after it ... But the Georgians did not complete the reform and formation of a full-fledged professional army by 2008, besides, they were not ready for war, unlike us ... And taking into account the difference in potential and scale, we remember this war, just remember that there, too, the same lieutenants - colonels were spinning in a frying pan while the generals were playing chapaya.
What was done first of all after the defeat of Armenia? - we rushed to portray the Armenians as idiots, knowing full well that the defeat of the Armenians is a discrediting of our schools, science, experience and weapons. I was more interested in the latter, since, along with hydrocarbons, arms exports make up a significant share in export earnings. What else have we done? - sang on backing vocals tales about the Syrian mercenaries (passionately portrayed by the Syrian Armenians), who supposedly, just think, smashed parts of the regular army in advance prepared positions.
Knowing about one important detail of this war, an event, we all, knowing about it, prefer not to talk about hiding our heads in the sand. The Armenians fought all the way not only with our weapons, but also according to our "templates", the Azerbaijanis began to fight in the same way. But not having solved all the tasks at the first stage and having suffered more than one third of all their losses in killed (3000), the Azerbaijanis dramatically changed the nature of their actions. Here it is worth remembering the second story, about the Turks who fought everywhere and everywhere.
Both Armenians and Azerbaijanis, in addition to training personnel in their own universities, also send their cadets and officers to our schools and academies. In addition, Azerbaijanis also teach their own in Turkey, other NATO countries including the United States and China. In this regard, the Armenians are more modest in this regard, they did not go further than training in the framework of the NATO "Partnership in Their World" program, so this is a copy of our army. So what we are trying to forget and what detail and event we avoid mentioning - following the results of the first battles, Turkish advisers to Azerbaijani President Aliyev insisted that he remove all officers who graduated from our academy from command. As a result, even the Chief of the General Staff was removed from command and dismissed by Aliyev, while the Minister of Defense, retaining his post, actually ceased to take part in the command and control of the troops. The command was transferred to officers educated or trained in Turkey and NATO countries. It is amazing, but true, the Azerbaijani army, being in theory beheaded, began to fight better and fought splendidly. What does this mean? - my humble opinion is that we are outdated not only in terms of weapons, but also school, science, experience.

[Kittymoore]

What does this mean? - my humble opinion is that we are outdated not only in terms of weapons, but also school, science, experience.

Well, yes. Did you think that senior retirees are capable of solving the problems of a modern army?
Actually, in Soviet times, they did the same - they were preparing for the last war.

[Old tanker]

Knowing about one important detail of this war, an event, we all, knowing about it, prefer not to talk hiding our heads in the sand. The Armenians fought all the way not only with our weapons, but also according to our "templates"

How the Armenians fought, completely ignoring any "patterns" were well shown by the Armenians themselves and even better by the Azerbaijanis from their drones. So you shouldn't blame our military school here.
Well, what kind of super modern tactics did the Turks portray? Massive use of drones in the absence of effective air defense and electronic warfare? In Idlib, Bayraktars deftly landed them and there are still no attempts to use them.

[aszzz888]

the tank hid in specially prepared camouflaged shelters, left them to aim a 125 mm gun at the enemy's military equipment and hit the enemy, and then returned to the shelter until they opened fire on it.

Hike Syrian experience. Of course, it is a little time consuming to dig such a reinforcement, but it is worth it.

[Old tanker]

This technique was used in exercises long before Syria. They took the "Syrian shaft" from Syria. Although the spirits in Chechnya also drove along the ditches and two-level trenches for digging equipment. The first site hid the car completely, and in front of it was an ordinary trench. He jumped into the trench, shot and took cover.

[Azimuth]

Quote: Kitty Moore

What does this mean? - my humble opinion is that we are outdated not only in terms of weapons, but also school, science, experience.

Well, yes. Did you think that senior retirees are capable of solving the problems of a modern army?
Actually, in Soviet times, they did the same - they were preparing for the last war.

Yes, there are now no particularly senior citizens in senior positions, there are those very "ass-headed" generals whose appointment logic is sometimes incomprehensible, even if they deliberately dislocate their brains. We have a land comrade born to crawl, commanding the flyers, if only they would put the flyer over the Navy and there would be a full paragraph - a set and a worthy decoration for the Minister of Defense, the foreman.
We are stepping on the same rake, we have an army like football. The youth team sometimes wins the largest competitions, but then we do not see the names of the participants of the youth team either in eminent clubs or in the national team of the country. We have dozens of young colonels and generals with combat experience, many heroes both in the literal sense and in reward, but where are they all, where do they evaporate, where is all the experience that they got with blood? Under Stalin, it is understandable that many were allowed into the expense and by stage, the very ones on whose experience and school the Germans fought with us later, and what happens here, what kind of repressions are they constantly against the army and for what ?! By the way, this is another lesson of the Karabakh war, the Armenians have played out with the army, and they are our tracing paper, all the same in miniature, the result is known. We again do not draw conclusions, then surrender half of the country, and then, at the cost of millions of lives, win, when this can be avoided initially, the fate of the lessons of our Victory and someone else's defeat.

[Kittymoore]

Yes, there are now no special retirees in high positions, there are those same "ass-headed" generals whose appointment logic is sometimes incomprehensible, even if they deliberately dislocate their brains.

It's simple.
The army, in general in any country, is one of the most closed public institutions (and one of the most corrupt), therefore the appointments are “strange”.

In fact, there is nothing strange about them. After all, they appoint each other.

In general, I am sure that in the coming decades, the armies of most countries of the world will undergo revolutionary changes.

For the modern army of the 21st century is a black, corruption hole, where nepotism, gray schemes and muddy projects flourish.
At the same time, many people in this area have good salaries, social benefits, but they are hanging like a weight on the country's economy.

The military-industrial complex has already become an independent force, has its own media, which like to fan the militaristic frenzy and fear of society before the "imminent war", as well as openly paid lobbyists in government bodies.