Military Review

The government of Medvedev issued a death sentence for the Russian aviation industry

228
Has the decision to finalize the Russian aviation industry at the highest levels? About the elimination of our national ability to design and produce world-class aircraft, outstanding products that would be economically feasible for linking our colossal and poorly populated spaces that make up the seventh part of world land?

In a slightly disguised form, the death sentence of the aviation industry is set out in a draft state program published last week by the Ministry of Industry and TradeDevelopment of the aviation industry "for 2013 – 2025 years».

Reading the draft state program should inevitably cause an attack of happiness in anyone.

In the best traditions of bureaucratic narration, the reader of the program is encouraged that its “implementation will contribute to the development” of everything and everything, everything in our aviation will be even better in this very best of the worlds. Not only numerous improvements will occur, but also hundreds of breakthroughs, and as a result, the global aviation market will continue to be conquered by Russia to the shame of Boeing, Airbus, Bombardier and Embrayer, as well as the Chinese who have risen to this point.

Over the 13 years of the state program, the Ministry of Industry and Trade of Russia promises, having spent just 13 billion budget dollars, to sell thousands of domestic civil aircraft: 893 Dry Superjet (SSJ – 100) and 960 MS – 21 units as well as several hundred transport aircraft, primarily IL – 476 and An – 70.

What kind of death sentence? - Anyone will say, including a member of the government, and the president, turning over an almost 400 –page program. This is a breakthrough, and not even getting up from his knees and not subsequent trampolining, but an explosive development in its pure form!

As a cure for premature euphoria, I would recommend an even more exciting reading of previous strategic documents on the development of the aviation industry, approved by the government at the request of the Ministry of Industry and Trade ten and seven years ago.

But first I will describe the state of affairs in our aviation industry at the moment, which is shown by the actual results of the implementation of the previous fundamental strategies.

Almost 90% (ninety!) Of all traffic this year is carried out by Russian airlines already on foreign-made aircraft. Last year, the entire 11 domestic aircraft were manufactured, most of which are not subject to normal operation.

However, let a high official say about the situation - Secretary of the Security Council of the Russian Federation Nikolay Patrushev. Here is his assessment of a year ago in an interview with the Izvestia newspaper, which he gave immediately after the meeting of the Security Council on the aviation industry: “The production volumes of civilian aircraft are single. The domestic market of aviation technology for the domestic industry is largely lost ... ".

That is, as a result of the previous activities of the Ministry of Industry and Trade, the Russian aircraft market was handed over and fully divided between Boeing, Airbus, Bombardier and Embryer, and the aircraft from China, which almost became out of phase with us from a non-aviation world aviation power, will begin to penetrate our market .

Actually, this should be an analysis of the results of the implementation of previous strategic documents and complete, if not for the complete and absolutely expected failure of the initially unpromising marketing, technical and economic Superjet and the government canceling Medvedev’s import duties on importing foreign regional aircraft to Russia last week - with wide-body “the question is closed” in favor of a foreign manufacturer five years ago.

Finally, to complete the picture, immediately after joining the WTO in August, the leaders of the country suddenly suddenly began talking about the need to “develop the domestic aircraft industry” through the introduction of ... screwdriver assembly of foreign aircraft.

And now it makes sense to read the promises that we all generously fed in the previous strategic documents of the Ministry of Industry and Trade.

Here is the federal target program “Development of Russian civil aviation technology on 2002 - 2010 years and for the period up to 2015”: “The Program’s goal is to fundamentally change the strategic competitive position of the civil sector of the aviation industry of Russia, which is to create on its basis a new global aviation industry center for 2015, at least 5 per cent of the world market for sales of civil aviation equipment ... The implementation of the Program’s activities will allow for annual sales of Russian-made long-haul and regional aircraft to the 2015 year in the amount of 95 - 100 units. ”

The performance has even exceeded.

The new world center of aircraft construction has arisen, and the most powerful one, though not in Russia, but in China, but it has appeared the same. And not 5, but all 95% of the market, albeit only the Russian one, and not the world one, was conquered! True, not by domestic, but by foreign aircraft manufacturers - but they were conquered! And not only conquered, but also carefully, for decades to come, divided!

For completeness, you can also read the Aviation Industry Development Strategy for the period up to 2005 approved in 2015 year. According to her, of course, by now, there has been a "return to the world market", and we are already entering the production of "hundreds of civilian aircraft per year."

In general, the insane idea-fix of all our industrial and aviation chiefs from 2002 of the year is to conquer the world market, giving their own market to foreign aircraft manufacturers.

Funny people. Who will let them into a foreign market, if they passed theirs? If this key moment, it turns out, is not understood by them, then all these puffy strategies and state programs are not worth a penny. Or is everything understood and deliberately deliberately? As one expert said, after reading in the text of the state program, the ranting about the conquests of the world market: “Either mentally retarded, or they lie, and therefore scoundrels”.

However, under the implementation of all these fantastic works over the past 10 years, at least ten billion dollars of budget funds were directly consumed. And in the next 13 years - another 13 billion. And the plan, obviously, is to master exactly one billion dollars a year in budget - to support my pants ...

Obviously, neither on the security councils nor on other high meetings has there been any assessment of this fundamental sabotage and failure, and probably will not. And the Audit Chamber is unlikely to find time to conduct an audit of efficiency, and even more so a strategic audit that reveals a failure with initial goals and mechanisms of implementation in the fundamental decisions on the aviation industry.

So why now and now not to offer the storytellers from the Ministry of Industry and Trade - right by the anniversary of Vladimir Vladimirovich - the next volumes of non-scientific fiction?

Here they take and offer.

What does the country do this time for the next 13 years?

A few more billion dollars to invest in the initially dead-end and unsaleable Dry Superjet (SSJ) is in the fabulous language of the Ministry of Industry and Trade called by the 2025 year “sell the 893 of the aircraft” (note, not 800, not 900, but 893! !) - and to invest even more into the yet non-existent and initially failing MC-21 in all respects, a kind of second edition of the Superjet. Well, and a little less to invest in hundreds of equally dead-end transport workers who do not have any prospects, but unlike new models for the exact opposite reason — if the first “innovative” super-duper, then the latter are hopelessly outdated since the Soviet period: 1960 – ies IL – 476 (76) and 1980 – x - An – 70.

That's the whole essence of the draft state program "Development of the aviation industry" for 2013 – 2025 years. " Two fantasy civilian remake and two all have already shown and proven transport starodela.

And this makes it possible to assert that behind the aircraft part of the state program project there are not state interests, but the interests of two commercial clans, which are the real customers of the state program.

The obvious and undisputed leader of the first clan, the author of the Superjet, and now also the second Superjet in the form of a paper MS-21, is Mikhail Aslanovich Pogosyan, president of the UAC - United Aircraft Building Corporation.

The secret of the second clan lies in an absolutely unexpected revival of the IL-76 theme, which in its “deep modification” IL-76MD-90 (aka IL-476), according to its lobbyists, “is a completely new aircraft”.

In aviation circles, they even talk about the emergence behind this swift invasion of the second Pogosyan, the younger Il-476 rejuvenated grandfather, who is fully capable of using the first Pogosyan himself.

This second Poghosyan is Viktor Vladimirovich Livanov - the most experienced (1943 year of birth) official from the aviation industry, General Director of JSC "Il" - OJSC "Aviation Complex named after. SV Ilyushin ”and concurrently the chief designer Il – 476, until last year - vice-president of the UAC, Pogosyan’s deputy for transport aviation, a figure widely known not only for his ability, filling up one after another design projects (for example MTS, Il – 112 and Il-114), to receive for this the highest state awards, but also for their outstanding lobbying abilities.

In addition, Viktor Livanov is not just the father of the current Minister of Education and Science Dmitry Livanov.

He is also the son-in-law (the husband of the elder sister) of the current vice-premier Dmitry Rogozin, who oversees the defense industry today, and in it the military and military transport aviation, and with them the KLA. It is interesting, by the way, that in V. 2001, Viktor Vladimirovich became a doctor of philosophy at the Academy of Information Sciences in Brussels, and Dmitriy Olegovich served as an ambassador to NATO for three years in Brussels - their unselfish love for the capital of NATO gives them extra strength to help NATO create its military base in Ulyanovsk.

The Pogosyan clan and the successfully rising Rogozin – Livanov clan are the real customers of the new state program.

By the way, with military aircraft in fact, we are even worse. It is enough to point out that since 2020, Oboronexport will practically have nothing to export - the PAK FA, even if it is produced, will not be bought, and the promising lightweight 5 generation fighter that could produce an MIG will not, as the MIG has been almost completely destroyed by Dry Poghosian through UAC Poghosian.

However, in view of the appearance in the sky of liquidators of the Russian aviation industry of a new star in the form of a Rogozin-Livanov couple, it is better not to criticize Pogosyan, it’s even dangerous, because before the Russian president places order in this vital industry for the country, it will not work for the Russian aviation industry, but on the ambitions of the second clan Rogozin – Livanov.

So, we have two mutually complementary phenomena: superjetism and patriotism. This is the method of final liquidation of the Russian aircraft industry.

On the one hand, waving super-duper jets of all stripes. On the other hand, for traditionalists and anti-superjewers, calls for reliance on the good old Soviet.

As a result, billions of dollars can be spent on research and development projects alone.

... It is possible and necessary to continue to analyze the Ministry of Industry draft state program on the aviation industry in detail. The most corrosive can find on the Internet a dozen references to good-quality discussions.

Also, at the moment, our Development Movement is preparing public hearings on the project, during which each of the parties and positions will have the opportunity to fully speak out.

But the essence of what is happening, I think, is understandable.

Mockingly sounding in the name of the state program "development" in fact covers up the deliberate refusal of high aviation industry officials from the status of Russia as a world aviation power and surrender of aviation sovereignty through eventually leaving to the diverter aviation industry.

By the way, the analysis of the draft state program on the aviation industry is a great opportunity to study the state of government in general.

To miss such a state program can not be criminal.

It is advisable for the country's leadership to define the situation in the aviation industry as an emergency and proceed to a forced change in the situation.

What should be done?

The first. Return the Russian and Eurasian (Customs Union, SES and CIS) Russian market. To adopt a presidential decree on the plan for the release of aircraft technology in the Russian Federation on 2013 - 2030. with the plan attached by year and in pieces on two pages, no more, and designation of the person responsible for the implementation of the plan and the penalties for failure and rewarding for victory.

The second. Urgently create the Ministry of Aviation, and close the UAC as an irresponsible “lining” on the development of budget funds. In the Ministry of Administration combine administration and aviation industry and all aviation activities.

The main task of Minavia is to return its market and prepare a pragmatic breakthrough, the creation of a new Russian aviation.

Pogosyan and the emerging second “Poghosian” in the form of Rogozin – Livanov will be limited to private topics, respectively, by heavy maneuverable Sukhoi aviation and the development of new transport aviation under the auspices of Ilyushin. Not only the two, but Pogosyan’s one as the main aviation industry, the country will no longer withstand.

Third. To finalize our (Development Movement) project of the Aviation Doctrine of Russia in tough discussions of real professionals in the aviation industry and aviation of Russia and the world, specialists in related fields, fundamental and applied science, defense and management, and then adopt the Aviation Doctrine and convert it to the format of the new aviation industry development program and aviation.

We have reached that line, the red line, when the old planes will not help us any more and will not be saved by the superjet “innovations” of the screwdriver assembly. At stake is our engineering and production capacity.

Who are the authors and performers of the previous program? Who are the authors and customers of the current?

Authors, performers and customers - in the studio! And to the wall.

I already wrote many times and now I will repeat.

Everything came to the fact that the country's leadership has two ways to raise the aviation industry: either to shoot all the “effective managers” who, for the next thirteen years, have prepared themselves another plan for the development of popular funds, or to make the aviation industry and aviation as a whole a priority area of ​​Russian development, putting to the place of all these attacking vacuum cleaners in aviation and appointing those who really make the new Russian aviation industry.

At the last meeting of the Security Council, President Putin called for "making the same powerful, comprehensive breakthrough in the modernization of defense industries, as it was back in the 30 – s of the last century."

If you take aircraft, then the wildest illusion is the belief that you can make combat aircraft yourself, and civilians - to assemble with screwdrivers or simply deliver. Without civilian aircraft is impossible military.
And since Putin sends us back to 30 – s, it should be recalled that for Soviet aviation they were very different and extremely difficult, but one 1939 was really crucial, when the XVI Congress of the CPSU (B) approved the directive on the general development of aviation in the USSR and the forced creation of practically new at that time aviation industry and aviation, which allowed us in the end to win the Great Patriotic War.

The dialogue of I.V. is extremely instructive. Stalin and the outstanding Soviet Russian aircraft designer Alexander Yakovlev in the summer of that year 1939: “Speak what you think and do not be embarrassed - we believe you, although you are young. You are an expert in your field, you are not connected with the mistakes of the past, and therefore you can be more objective than the old specialists whom we really believed, and they brought us into the swamp with aviation. ”

To believe today in the aviation industry - is. Calling them out loud is not yet possible, since they will immediately become a target.

But who can not believe in any way is well known.

These are the current ones “which we really believed, and they brought us to the swamp with aircraft”.

And the state is obliged to withdraw them from administrative positions, where they solve private tasks not only at public expense, but also finish our aviation industry.

The country's leadership has the last chance to make 2012 a year 1939, not 1937.

According to the mind, today everything will have to be done as if from scratch, collecting and attracting really best designers, growing new design schools, collecting our most talented young people in these schools around our distinguished and dear old people who still remember how to make airplanes - consolidating all creative forces to create a new Russian aviation.
Author:
Originator:
http://www.kroupnov.ru
228 comments
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  1. Vanek
    Vanek 12 September 2012 14: 23
    -6
    The government of Medvedev issued a death sentence for the Russian aviation industry

    Evil Fools !!!
    1. Aleks28
      Aleks28 12 September 2012 14: 27
      -4
      Yeshe and not write that. As we quickly like to put the i over i. As you read, everyone has already been buried.
      1. Civil
        Civil 12 September 2012 14: 36
        +2
        article a set of rumors, but they knew about sloppiness when developing and building superjets
        1. Mikhalych82
          Mikhalych82 12 September 2012 16: 25
          0
          article a set of rumors, but they knew about sloppiness when developing and building superjets
          I also think that there is a distortion of facts, most of all upset that Rogozin was dragged there. I never supported Medvedev and his political course, with the exception of the events of August 2008. Rogozin, damn it, like a breath of fresh air in this serpentarium, and everyone is trying to denigrate. I DO NOT BELIEVE, I do not want to believe in the self-interest of Dmitry Rogozin!
          1. Internet fighter
            Internet fighter 12 September 2012 19: 38
            +1
            I consider the article partly true, the author put together a good puzzle. But he brought turbidity.
            1. UAZ Patriot
              UAZ Patriot 13 September 2012 10: 24
              0
              Rogozin has already tweeted about this photo! He was so in the role of observer, so do not bring more turbidity here !!!
          2. btsypulin
            btsypulin 13 September 2012 00: 11
            +1
            Yeah, especially when Rogozin said that through Ulyanovsk "toilet paper" for NATO would be transported .......... Fucking hypocrites !!!
          3. mind1954
            mind1954 13 September 2012 03: 19
            0
            A lady stands before her eyes during the election campaign!
            Yes, they deceived not fulfilled, but really want to believe that they will!

            While in the country, at least one penny of private capital will be
            in basic industries, wait for any shift in manufacturing
            industries, simply, is unthinkable !!!
      2. FID
        FID 12 September 2012 14: 37
        +49
        Quote: Allex28
        As you read, everyone has already been buried.

        Unfortunately, I’m not stopping, it’s been repeating for a year now, but it is SO! A simple example. Today, a / c Russia honored the millionth passenger (he turned out to be a passenger) transported to the An-148. This aircraft has been operating for 3 years. Without a penny of budget money. But he is a competitor to the superjet, although the characteristics of the An-148 will be higher. But super proclaimed BREAKTHROUGH. All the money on it. So, do not take orders for Antonov. With the Tu-204/214 / 204CM the situation is similar. These projects are not funded. Aircraft factories are on their side, except for those that drive products for export. Unfortunately, to the BIG regret, the article highlights the almost real state of affairs in the aviation industry. The former!
        1. Varnaga
          Varnaga 12 September 2012 14: 47
          -7
          Where does the AN-148 have higher performance? Consumption or what? And with what speed and passenger capacity? and let's feed a foreign manufacturer and not restore our aircraft industry? I recognize the poztreotic approach.
          1. spender
            spender 12 September 2012 14: 53
            +19
            Quote: Varnaga
            and let's feed a foreign manufacturer and not restore our aircraft industry?

            This is a SuperJet you call domestic? It seems to me that there is more Russian in the Academy of Sciences than in Pogosyan's "constructor" of imported components laughing
            1. urzul
              urzul 12 September 2012 15: 01
              +7
              After all, there are manufacturers of components from non-CIS countries, if large:
              - air conditioning and boost - from Liebherr (France);
              - all radio communications, FMS consoles and radio altimeters - from Rockwell-Collins (USA);
              - course-lines - from Litef (Germany);
              - batteries - from Varta (Germany);
              - Generation channels (EPGS) - from Thales (France);
              - Sockets, relays and contactors - from Deutsch (France);
              - all wires and cables - from Raychem (UK);
              - icing indicators and fire-overheating sensors - from Vibro-Meter (Switzerland);
              - hydraulic filter units - from Pall (Germany);
              - a water-vacuum system (simply a toilet) and all "plumbing" - from Monogram (USA);
              - all lighting equipment - from Hella (Germany);
              - EVEN steering wheels, and those from Crouzet (France)


              From Russian components An-148, enlarged:
              - KSEIS;
              - self-propelled guns and emf;
              - fire extinguishers - automatic and manual;
              - oxygen equipment;
              - radio compass, radio navigation system, glonass, air traffic transponders;
              - units of fuel and hydraulic systems;
              - fuel control and indication system;
              - emergency beacons and radio stations;
              - electric cranes, some sensors ...
              - passenger seats;
              - wheels, tires, brakes
              1. Varnaga
                Varnaga 12 September 2012 15: 05
                -10
                Well what are you, this is Surkovskaya propaganda)
                1. spender
                  spender 12 September 2012 15: 08
                  +1
                  Quote: Varnaga
                  Well what are you, this is Surkovskaya propaganda)

                  You know, and the esaul is smarter, even though he does not post such "backward" stamps ... It can be seen indeed, given the phrase "everything is known in comparison," thanks to you, I will become a supporter of the esaul laughing
                  1. Varnaga
                    Varnaga 12 September 2012 15: 11
                    -3
                    You would be silent about "smarter", that for a long time I have not heard anything from you, except for laughs.
                    1. Alexander Romanov
                      Alexander Romanov 12 September 2012 15: 15
                      0
                      Quote: Varnaga

                      You would be silent about being "smarter", that I haven't heard anything from you for a long time, except for laughs

                      You can express your point of view from an airline promo, so be kind and respect the other
                      1. Varnaga
                        Varnaga 12 September 2012 15: 19
                        -3
                        Romanov, I'm not talking to you.
                        Further, do you call Tranjiru a specialist?) SSI, by the way, I asked a question on 148, while he is silent, he is going with thoughts)
                      2. spender
                        spender 12 September 2012 15: 24
                        +4
                        Quote: Varnaga
                        SSI, by the way, I asked a question on 148, while it is silent, it is going with thoughts)

                        You see, even a specialist in this industry gathers his thoughts before answering, and you immediately sculpt your thoughts without even collecting them winked also "fertilize" with obscenities
                      3. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 12 September 2012 15: 31
                        +1
                        Quote: Varnaga
                        Further, you call Tranzhiru specialist?)

                        No, not a spender, but an SSI. A man has been working in the aviation industry for many years and I think he will answer your comment. And be more restrained you are a moderator.
                      4. FID
                        FID 12 September 2012 15: 32
                        +9
                        Quote: Varnaga
                        SSI, by the way, I asked a question on 148, while it is silent, it is going with thoughts)

                        I just don’t speak in that tone.
                    2. spender
                      spender 12 September 2012 15: 16
                      +2
                      Quote: Varnaga
                      I haven’t heard anything from you for a long time laughter.

                      It is worthy of a moderator wassat I would immediately slammed the ban, but here expanse winked

                      I understand you correctly that Yesaul is dumber than you? wink
                      1. Varnaga
                        Varnaga 12 September 2012 15: 20
                        +1
                        Spender, I am waiting for the answer to the question.
                      2. spender
                        spender 12 September 2012 15: 22
                        +1
                        Quote: Varnaga
                        I am waiting for the answer to this question.

                        I am not special in the aircraft industry hi But the way you esaul ... I liked laughing
                    3. nycsson
                      nycsson 12 September 2012 15: 56
                      0
                      Quote: Varnaga
                      except for the laughter.

                      Here it is, mind .................. negative For the "live" hurt ... wassat
                2. VAF
                  VAF 12 September 2012 15: 28
                  +7
                  Quote: Varnaga
                  Well what are you, this is Surkovskaya propaganda)


                  What does propaganda have to do with it, what Urzul from Russian production listed is 90% of the plane, for your information, but the box ... it is the box!
                3. VAF
                  VAF 12 September 2012 16: 44
                  +13
                  Quote: Varnaga
                  Well what are you, this is Surkovskaya propaganda)


                  And my komenta for what deleted ????? For the fact that I wrote the truth, but you don’t know ???? Which systems of the aircraft are the main ones, and which ..... are so-so ???

                  Then visually look, maybe here you will understand everything!

                  1. spender
                    spender 12 September 2012 16: 47
                    +7
                    Quote: vaf
                    And my komenta for what deleted ????? For the fact that I wrote the truth, but you don’t know ????

                    Yes, Serega rarely visit the site, if you are not familiar with the new method of fighting the opposition "rubbing" is called wink
                    1. nycsson
                      nycsson 12 September 2012 16: 54
                      +2
                      Quote: spender
                      if you are not familiar with the new method of fighting the opposition, "mashing" is called

                      Share your thoughts on this ........ hi
                      1. spender
                        spender 12 September 2012 17: 02
                        +6
                        Quote: nycsson
                        Share your thoughts on this ........

                        Well, what can I say, methods of dealing with "dissidents" are developing, it is clear that from time to time there is panic in the actions of "those in power" and even sometimes hysteria jumps over, but I have to admit that, despite the intensification of repressions, more and more members of the forum are becoming members of the forum who begin to think about the actual state of affairs , and not stupidly rejoice that they are being poured into their eyes from the monitor screen hi
                      2. nycsson
                        nycsson 12 September 2012 20: 42
                        +4
                        Quote: spender
                        Well, what can I say, methods of dealing with "dissidents" are developing, it is clear that from time to time there is panic in the actions of "those in power" and even sometimes hysteria jumps over, but I have to admit that, despite the intensification of repressions, more and more members of the forum are becoming members of the forum who begin to think about the actual state of affairs , and not stupidly rejoice that they are being poured into their eyes from the monitor screen

                        I completely agree! They have nervousness; I also noticed! The elections were held and people began to realize hu hu hu ........ With respect to you ... hi
                      3. btsypulin
                        btsypulin 13 September 2012 00: 15
                        0
                        I agree, the State Department’s words are slipping more and more often, soon the country’s pipets will come, they’ll sell the last one and they will still say the State Department .... .... .... !!!
                    2. Varnaga
                      Varnaga 12 September 2012 17: 55
                      0
                      Spender, by the way, I did not delete anything, although your messages, like nothing else, fit the definition of "Flood", which is still written in the site rules, point c). I think that it is high time to register you and some other comrades on this point. And I am still amazed at the softness of moderating discussions, here an example should be taken from a gamble, that's exactly where you will never read so many empty messages that do not carry any information.
                      1. spender
                        spender 12 September 2012 18: 01
                        +1
                        Quote: Varnaga
                        Spender, by the way, I didn’t delete anything,

                        I know hi I have enough personal controllers without you winked
                        Quote: Varnaga
                        although your messages like nothing else fit the definition of "Flood

                        Well, I imagine how in this thread two Sergey (SSI and vaf) with Andrey (urzul) would polymerize ... The rest are also not in the subject hi Well, we (the rest) have saturated and revived their technical and bargaining disputes laughing
                      2. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 12 September 2012 18: 05
                        0
                        Quote: Varnaga
                        I think that it’s time for you and some other comrades to register on this point.

                        There is a Saita administration on this, you can write a complaint and if they find a violation, they will immediately respond. At the same time, your comments in communication with your interlocutors leave much to be desired, pay attention to this. You are still a moderator.
                      3. FID
                        FID 12 September 2012 18: 54
                        +3
                        Alexander! You have the same night. I was in Knevichi, Vladivostokavia Tu-204-300 exploits, beautifully with you. I love the Far East. Often in Mongohto, this is next to Vanino, visited. And when my father served in Chukotka, they visited Primorye. Good edge, great!
                      4. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 12 September 2012 19: 48
                        +4
                        Sergey, I have three in the morning soon, but I don’t get up early tomorrow, so I’m sitting. I’m really in the Khabarovsk Territory and here I’ve been flying for a whole week, today it’s especially intense and almost over the city, like in the old days, only forty minutes how the rumble stopped. Come with us still warm good
                      5. Karish
                        Karish 12 September 2012 19: 52
                        +2
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        Come to us still warm

                        Alexander, I am divorced from reality, is heat + how much?
                      6. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 12 September 2012 20: 02
                        +2
                        Quote: Karish

                        Alexander, I am divorced from reality, heat is + how much

                        + 25 I guarantee another two weeks and a warm sea, although there are rains
                      7. Karish
                        Karish 12 September 2012 20: 24
                        +1
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        + 25 I guarantee another two weeks and a warm sea, although there are rains

                        A dream, and we still have very warm, 32-35 (in the shade), truth and the sea is the same temperature. And I want a cold.
                      8. FID
                        FID 12 September 2012 19: 58
                        +3
                        Thanks for the invitation! On occasion I’ll fly, though the AFL is Vladivostokavia a sub-basement for itself. According to unconfirmed reports, on the basis of Vladivostokavia and the Sakhalin Highways they will create a Far Eastern regional a / c and merge all the super ones into it.
                      9. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 12 September 2012 20: 06
                        0
                        Yes
                        Quote: SSI
                        on the basis of Vladivostokavia and Sakhalin highways will create a Far Eastern regional a / k

                        If prices had fallen from this, I would only be in favor, but this is all internal corporate disassembly and will not lead to an improvement
                      10. FID
                        FID 12 September 2012 20: 22
                        +5
                        Our prices are not falling! Here's an interesting thing, fly from Moscow to Ufa-12-14 thousand, from Moscow to Paris (Erfransom, naturally) - 9 thousand. And the distance - to Paris is 2 times more!
                      11. btsypulin
                        btsypulin 13 September 2012 00: 19
                        +1
                        "Prescribe" - something looks like "plant", "close", follow the speech dear! smacks of shit from BBP!
                  2. nycsson
                    nycsson 12 September 2012 16: 52
                    +1
                    Quote: vaf
                    Then visually look, maybe here you will understand everything!

                    Yeah! E-mine! Where is the Russian tricolor? request crying
                    1. urzul
                      urzul 12 September 2012 17: 05
                      +3
                      Everything else, and do not forget that Liebherr manufactures parts in Russia at "Heat exchanger" in Nizhny Novgorod, Messier - Dowty at "Gidromash" again in Nizhny Novgorod, Russia. Etc.
                      Although they are included in the import in the 46,8% report.
                    2. bddrus
                      bddrus 12 September 2012 19: 09
                      0
                      a picture specifically to generate such an opinion as you voiced, but you can draw it in another way - just indicate only those details that are produced in Russia
                  3. Varnaga
                    Varnaga 12 September 2012 17: 51
                    +1
                    But I’m wondering if there is such a beautiful picture on the Boeing, ana, etc.? Post, please.
                    Essentially, I absolutely agree with the approach when high-quality, certified systems and components, including foreign ones, are used in a product, complex, etc. Here, it seems to many roomy imperials that we still live in the USSR, nevertheless, the fact remains that we are technologically and scientifically backward country and even as far as competitors on foot to China. For example, in the field of activity of our design bureau, we are just approaching the parameters that are already quite freely operated abroad, while filling inevitable bumps. If not for state support and a certain lobbying, then our sector would have been closed and dispersed long ago. Our backwardness results in a delay, add. financing, deterioration of the parameters specified in the ToR, etc. But in the area in which I work (valve actuator, mechatronic modules) it is still possible and consciously go for it, because the warrior simply has practically no alternative, especially since in subsequent products all errors are taken into account and corrected. Can civil aircraft industry go to the same conditions when there is a tangible, real alternative, the use of which directly opens up markets for the final product? I think the answer is obvious. And yes, I suggest learning to look beyond the horizon.
                    1. aksakal
                      aksakal 12 September 2012 19: 41
                      +6
                      Quote: Varnaga
                      we are a backward country in technological, scientific terms and to competitors even as on foot to China
                      - in technological terms - alas, the truth is yours, a backward country. And by the way, they have been lagging behind in this all their lives, let us remember cars and other technological innovations of the beginning of the last century. But scientifically, Russia is a backward power? Well, then Russia was just by a miracle the first to be in space and is still in the lead, and this miracle cannot be explained in any way. And by the way, the creator of the theory of information is not Shannon at all, as is generally accepted. Kolmogorov laid its foundations - read it at your leisure. Shannon is only the author of a unit for measuring the amount of information, which Kolmogorov never recognized, arguing that 1 bit does not reflect the usefulness or uselessness of information for the recipient. Well, this is for fans of Amera, who love to reproach us with computers created by Americans. The fundamental basis for the whole thing is Russian, let the Russians thank amers. And to shift fundamental developments into technology and then a commercial product - in comparison with the fundamental study, a sneeze is complete, but for some reason Russia is bad at life. So I don’t agree with science, but technology is not good. But not to reach China on foot, we are only a generation behind. It's just that no one set such a super-task for the Russian industry, Putin recently voiced this topic, but he simply "supremely wished" to repeat the breakthrough of the 30s. I saw neither a stick nor a carrot in his hands; in short, he did not create mechanisms for implementation. And Stalin had them, simple, but effective. A specific task is set - by such-and-such a deadline to get ahead of the Zapadents in such-and-such parameters, if he fulfilled it - they will be kindly and rewarded, if he did not fulfill it - Kolyma. Now this is badly lacking, then Mr. Varnaga would not whine here that with his OKB he had cancer to the West as to China, but would work in the sweat of his brow, because if the state of affairs "cancer before China" remains, then it will shine on him resort area with gentle guards on the towers. Damn, how this is really not enough !!!!
                      1. FID
                        FID 12 September 2012 20: 00
                        +6
                        But in your words a lot, a lot .... And it's good!
                      2. Karish
                        Karish 12 September 2012 20: 06
                        0
                        Quote: aksakal
                        Well then, Russia simply miraculously first appeared in space and still leads, and this miracle is inexplicable

                        It turned out to be the first, but a miracle cannot be explained in any way, so this is your confidence that you are still leading. Let's face it, maybe we will understand that something needs to be changed.
                        Quote: aksakal
                        . Shannon is only the author of a unit for measuring the amount of information that Kolmogorov never recognized, arguing that 1 bit does not reflect the usefulness or uselessness of information for the recipient.

                        Maybe this is so, I don’t understand the intricacies, but your post went through the network in bits of information and I appreciated (as a recipient) its usefulness hi
                        Quote: aksakal
                        And to shift fundamental developments into technology and then a commercial product - in comparison with the fundamental study, the sneeze is complete

                        I agree, therefore, pans made of Teflon (coating rocket nozzles) were made there, and we believed that
                        TEFAL-ALWAYS THINKS ABOUT YOU, A CPSU
                        Quote: aksakal
                        It's just that no one posed such a super task to Russian industry

                        In general, industry must somehow want to develop itself, so as not to fade away in a co-competitive struggle.
                        Quote: aksakal
                        Putin recently voiced on this topic, but he simply "strongly wished" to repeat the breakthrough of the 30s. I saw neither a stick nor a carrot in his hands; in short, he did not create mechanisms for implementation.

                        Apparently Rogozin’s example is contagious, he throws the same pearl, without explaining how, why and why
                        Quote: aksakal
                        A specific task is being set - by such a date to get ahead of the Zapadentsev in such and such parameters, completed - caress and reward, did not fulfill - Kolyma.

                        It was already in China (under the MAO), the policy of big leaps, 80 million people were killed and 10 years later sparrows began to champ.
                        Quote: aksakal
                        Now this is badly lacking, then Mr. Varnaga would not whine here that with his OKB he had cancer to the West as to China, but would work in the sweat of his brow, because if the state of affairs "cancer before China" remains, then it will shine on him resort area with gentle guards on the towers. Damn, how this is really not enough !!!!

                        No, he would just fade west with a gold reserve and that’s it. If you think that there would be a queue in his place, you are mistaken.
                      3. Karish
                        Karish 12 September 2012 20: 27
                        +2
                        As always, they started to minus rats, even if they brought a counterargument.
                      4. saturn.mmm
                        saturn.mmm 14 September 2012 19: 24
                        0
                        Quote: Karish
                        As always, they started to minus rats, even if they brought some counterargument

                        I did not minus but I will give a counterargument.
                        Kotelnikov’s theorem-1933, Shannon’s theorem-1949, and in general, many thanks for the idea Emil Borel
                      5. aksakal
                        aksakal 12 September 2012 20: 30
                        0
                        Quote: Karish
                        It turned out to be the first, but a miracle cannot be explained in any way, so this is your confidence that you are still leading. Let's face it, maybe we will understand that something needs to be changed.
                        “Ok, what are the other manned ships currently in use?” For flights, for example, to the ISS, which, incidentally, is also Russian. Call me? We will call that leader. I’m waiting. About the change - Rogozin recently announced that it needs to be changed, he will be more competent than you, I so naively believe.


                        Quote: Karish
                        I agree, therefore, pans made of Teflon (coating of rocket nozzles) were made there, and we believed that TEFAL always thinks of YOU, but I wanted the Communist Party
                        - Actually, I admitted this fact in a generalized form, what do you want, not only to admit, but to jump from the bridge because of this? Do not wait. Moreover, the famous fuel cells that will be used in cars in a massive manner are the accumulation of Russian space technologies, but the cars will use them in the West and in Japan. So what?

                        Quote: Karish
                        It was already in China (under the MAO), the policy of big leaps, 80 million people were killed and 10 years later sparrows began to champ.
                        - before that it was in the USSR. China is now a recognized leader in economic and scientific growth, whatever you know.
                        By the way, Putin proposed a carrot - financing in trillions. But I did not see the whip. Specifically, what to call a failure of a task, specifically what sanctions are for it - through the State Duma. That's all
                      6. Karish
                        Karish 12 September 2012 21: 02
                        0
                        Quote: aksakal
                        Ok, what are the other manned ships currently in use? For flights, for example, to the ISS, which, incidentally, is also Russian. Call me?

                        I will not name it and it’s clear why. They have already hidden their Shuttle system and are quietly building a new generation of missiles. If you look at how American systems (weapons, missiles, etc.) are developing, you will understand. They create with the option to upgrade, upgrade, and when the limit comes. They calmly and justifiably begin to develop a fundamentally new one, in no hurry. This was the case with aircraft carriers (the last Nimitz was built 5 years ago, the next - a new generation only 10-12 years later). The same 4th generation is no longer being built with nuclear submarines Sea Wulf and Virginia, ours are just starting Borey 4th generation), the fifth is expected in 8-10 years, the tanks are the same. Exploit the old. They have nothing to fly on and it suits them, they dispersed half of NASA in order to concentrate on new tasks, well, and so between things. launch to mars, etc. What was the last unsuccessful launch of NASA? They already have private rockets flying to the ISS, and you say
                        Quote: aksakal
                        and jumped from the bridge because of this? Do not wait. Moreover, the famous fuel cells that will be used in cars in a massive manner are the accumulation of Russian space technologies, but the cars will use them in the West and in Japan. So what?

                        Maybe yes, only I was at the plant in Netanya (now for some reason Israel is the leader in their production), so believe me .Kub meter per meter and 80 cm, gives out more than 100 amperes, any current even though at least constant, in any portions ( only 180 hours), at least a second per day. Fully unified and does not require recharging or a separate room, he himself sends over the network or phone data about his condition to the online dispatcher, the fuel in the panels is ammonia. The developer (the main one) is a former native of the USSR, They are already being sold in droves to China and the military-industrial complex, batteries - (like backup power sources - they nervously smoke in the corner and die in the same corner) You can produce absolutely any capacity at the request of the customer. designed for example a charger for a mobile phone (for a year) as soon as the price is reduced to 1o-12 bucks - they will be launched into the market with this.
                        It is already there and is for sale.
                        Quote: aksakal
                        China is now a recognized leader in economic and scientific growth, what would you know

                        Of course . after the MAO with the delusions of the Big Leaps died and Deng Xiao Pin got down to business.
                        He gave freedom to entrepreneurs, without levies and dominance by the authorities, the result is obvious.
                        Quote: aksakal
                        By the way, Putin proposed a carrot - financing in trillions. But I did not see the whip.

                        Sketching dough is not enough. It is necessary to create conditions for work, and you can digest any amount, with an efficiency of 0%
                      7. Varnaga
                        Varnaga 12 September 2012 21: 46
                        0
                        and you can digest any amount, with an efficiency of 0%

                        I agree that our advanced science in this regard is no less advanced than that of Amers.
                      8. Varnaga
                        Varnaga 12 September 2012 21: 26
                        0
                        But scientifically, is Russia a backward power?

                        You, my friend, do not spread my thoughts on the tree, but call me, for example, working Russian software even remotely similar to ANSYS Emag, this is what interests me personally. By the way, at the State Regional Center (I hope there is no need to decrypt it?) Almost all gas-dynamic calculations are carried out in the same ANSYS. There is no arguing that Russia is ahead of the rest.
                        A specific task is being set - by such a date to get ahead of the Zapadentsev in such and such parameters, completed - caress and reward, did not fulfill - Kolyma.

                        Oh, I recognize the imperial manners, the longing for the master's whip. I assure you that now the methods of influence on the part of the customer are no worse and, in many respects, more effective, the example with "Lynx" is a clear confirmation of this.
                        And follow your speech, dear. I am not whining here, but I am quite specifically voicing some points, nothing more. And I work in the sweat of my brow, I assure you, so apply your "cancer" first of all to yourself.
                  4. igor67
                    igor67 12 September 2012 20: 05
                    +3
                    problems in the cabin at the first production Sukhoi Superjet 100
                4. dark_65
                  dark_65 13 September 2012 07: 52
                  0
                  So only stupid people think ........ The presence of two planes is competition, thought, and creativity ... the flight of one is the flight of a goose wounded in the ass (sooner or later it will fall down)
              2. nycsson
                nycsson 12 September 2012 15: 59
                +1
                Quote: urzul
                After all, there are manufacturers of components from non-CIS countries, if large:

                And now let's all do the same about the superjet, and then tell us how our aviation industry feels good .......... negative
                1. urzul
                  urzul 12 September 2012 16: 16
                  +2
                  http://ir.superjet100.com/index.php?id=18 свежачок
                  3.2.3. Materials, goods (raw materials) and suppliers of the issuer
                  For 6 months 2012
                  The issuer's suppliers, which account for at least 10 percent of all supplies of materials and
                  goods (raw materials)
                  Full company name: Open Joint-Stock Company Komsomolsk-on-Amur
                  Aviation Production Association named after Yu.A. Gagarin "
                  Location: 681018, Russia, Khabarovsk Territory, Komsomolsk-on-Amur, ul. Soviet,
                  d.1
                  VAT number: 2703019760
                  BIN: 1022700523724
                  Share in total supply,%: 16.57
                  Full Brand Name: PowerJet
                  Location: 2, boulevard Martial Valin, 75015 Paris - France
                  Not a resident of the Russian Federation
                  Share in total supply,%: 13.86
                  Information on changes in prices by more than 10% for basic materials and goods (raw materials) in
                  the current reporting period compared with the corresponding reporting
                  the period of the previous year
                  Price changes of more than 10% for basic materials and goods (raw materials) during
                  28
                  there was no corresponding reporting period
                  Import share in supplies of materials and goods, forecast of availability of import sources in
                  future and possible alternative sources
                  For 6 months On 2012, the share of imports in the supply of materials and goods amounted to 46.80%.
                  There are no alternative sources of supply.
                  Since the Issuer produces the SuperJet 100 aircraft within the framework of the Holding Company
                  The “dry” availability of the basic material used in the work is forecasted as
                  high.


                  It should be noted that the engines are included in the "import" line despite the fact that they are assembled in Rybinsk (because the parent company is registered in France). And the air conditioning system is included in the "import" line, despite the fact that it is made by the Nizhny Novgorod "Heat exchanger". And PKI for the fuel system are included in the "import" line, despite the fact that they are partially assembled in St. Petersburg. And the chassis are included in the "import" line, despite the fact that the brace links are created by our "Gidromash". Etc.
                  1. White
                    White 12 September 2012 16: 49
                    -2
                    In SM-146, the cold part is Saturn, the hot part is Snecma. Who will explain to me what is more important and more complicated in the engine? Then we will determine whose bigger this engine

                    http://www.powerjet.aero/pjsite/image/image_gallery?uuid=14d4c17e-f6d3-40f7-aa19
                    -df49e5308bd6&groupId=10122&t=1280488976751
                  2. nycsson
                    nycsson 12 September 2012 16: 58
                    +2
                    Quote: urzul
                    http://ir.superjet100.com/index.php?id=18 свежачок

                    Yes, there are still a couple of sites highlighted, and so:
                    Superjet

                    European suppliers:
                    PowerJet - engine
                    THALES - Avionics
                    LIEBHERR - management system, life support systems
                    INTERTECHNIQUE (ZODIAC) - fuel system
                    IPECO - crew seats
                    Le Bozec - hydrophobizing fluid supply system
                    Sully - Glazing
                    VIBRO-METER - engine vibration sensors

                    ===

                    therefore, you can unify a lot and for a long time
                    Suppliers from the USA:
                    HAMILTON SUNDSTRAND - power supply system
                    HONEYWELL - auxiliary power unit
                    MESSIER DOWTY - chassis
                    B / E AEROSPACE - interior, oxygen system
                    GOODRICH - wheels, brakes
                    AUTRONICS (CURTISS WRIGHT) - fire protection system
                    PARKER - hydraulic system
                    1. urzul
                      urzul 12 September 2012 17: 12
                      0
                      It is possible, but so far, unfortunately, no certified analogues have been produced by domestic manufacturers.
              3. VAF
                VAF 12 September 2012 16: 50
                +6
                Quote: urzul
                - EVEN steering wheels, and those from Crouzet (France)


                Andrey.nu it’s not beautiful at all! not only that komenty deleted. so also .. according to the fashion of Esaul from the rise ..... why!

                And then the people will definitely understand that the most important thing is on the plane ...... THE DRIVE, well, it's like on a car ... steering wheel !!! wassat

                Avot about self-propelled guns, ESDS, all fuel and energy, hydraulics, RTS ... you somehow .. modestly .....

                Count on .... incompetence of the public ???

                By the way, but these systems on your Super whose ????
                don’t bother, I posted the photo below ... everything is clear there, so to speak.

                And in general, Andrey. Admit, you are very close .. "stand" to the Super. If not at all .... "close"? Since you very easily ... take out some information and details, and this is in the internet ... well, you can't ... dig up ?! bully
                1. urzul
                  urzul 12 September 2012 17: 09
                  +2
                  It’s not in my rules to delete comments for no reason.
                  Well i'm so wink
                  I'm just a fan of this plane, already 5 flew it once;)))
                  1. VAF
                    VAF 12 September 2012 17: 30
                    +1
                    Quote: urzul
                    I'm just a fan of this plane, I flew it 5 times already;)


                    Take a chance ????? Respect, honestly .... +++++ !! good

                    Madness of the brave .. we sing a song !!!!!!! fellow drinks




                    And here I am, how I fretted and ... faced citizens tightly ... really with Cargo, you know everything ... foreigners ... I prefer, well, at worst, from hopelessness ... of our ... foreigners! request
                    1. urzul
                      urzul 12 September 2012 17: 34
                      +3
                      Stratosphere and aerobatics on the MiG-29 fighter. Comprehensive Program:
                      http://www.kupi-polet.ru/jet_flights/aerobatics_edge_space
                      That's where I want
                      The cost of the Comprehensive Program for flight to the stratosphere and aerobatics on the MIG-29 fighter - 560 000 rub.

                      (We have the lowest prices! If you find cheaper - we will refund the difference!)

                      This price includes:

                      registration of a pass to the air base and all official flight permits;
                      coaching with a pilot, physical examination, a full range of briefings and trainings;
                      take-off, flight according to the flight program and landing;
                      delivery of a commemorative Certificate of flight;
                      transfer for the entire duration and organization of the flight (5-6 hours);
                      1. VAF
                        VAF 12 September 2012 18: 10
                        +3
                        Quote: urzul
                        Stratosphere and aerobatics on the MiG-29 fighter.


                        Well, Sokol has been dealing with this business for a long time, it used to be cheaper and ... earlier on the MiG-31 .... "rolled" ... then refused ... and ... it was cheaper.

                        If you had known each other 20 years ago ... I would have you ... for free ... "taken out". used to do this ... on holidays (local)!

                        from amers it is official, even from famous aerobatics ... and even a group take! Vseda in a group fly 3 sparks ..... "with passengers"! fellow
                        Tail # 7 is sparky!



                    2. Karish
                      Karish 12 September 2012 22: 42
                      0
                      Quote: vaf
                      Madness of the brave .. we sing a song !!!!!!!

                      Sergey, the red bull advertisement drew attention to the spacesuit, and he, as you know, inspires. laughing So the insurance is still there bully
                    3. Vanek
                      Vanek 13 September 2012 06: 18
                      0
                      Quote: vaf
                      Madness of the brave .. we sing a song


                      Just a beautiful picture.
                2. Srgsoap
                  Srgsoap 12 September 2012 22: 05
                  +1
                  Serge +++++++++++++ good good good hi
            2. Varnaga
              Varnaga 12 September 2012 15: 02
              +1
              Funny, you, my friend. What is your evidence? (C)
              Here are the SSJ details:
              To find out the share of imported components, you need to go to the official site of the SCAC, select "Quarterly reports" and find paragraph 3.2.3 in each of them.
              It turns out:
              "In the 3rd quarter of 2011, the share of imports in the supply of materials and goods amounted to 61,5%."
              "In the 2nd quarter of 2011, the share of imports in the supply of materials and goods amounted to 53,32%."
              "In the 1rd quarter of 2011, the share of imports in the supply of materials and goods amounted to 41,1%."
              "In 2010, the share of imports in the supply of materials and goods amounted to 53.6%."
              "In 2009, the share of imports in the supply of materials and goods amounted to 56,5%"
              "In 2008, the share of imports in the supply of materials and goods amounted to 18,2%"
              "In 2007, the share of imports in the supply of materials and goods amounted to 55,4%"
              It should be noted that the engines are included in the "import" line despite the fact that they are assembled in Rybinsk (because the parent company is registered in France). And the air conditioning system is included in the "import" line, despite the fact that it is made by the Nizhny Novgorod "Heat exchanger". And PKI for the fuel system are included in the "import" line, despite the fact that they are partially assembled in St. Petersburg. And the chassis are included in the "import" line, despite the fact that the brace links are created by our "Gidromash". Etc.

              Nevertheless, it is clear that the share of imports fluctuates around 50%, the figures of 80-90% are not and close.


              SSJ

              I look forward to your data on 148, I am especially interested in why IAC wants to withdraw its certificate of operation from it))
              1. VAF
                VAF 12 September 2012 15: 32
                +7
                Quote: Varnaga
                Funny, you, my friend. What is your evidence?


                We need to read less ..... propaganda for steaming brains and everything will be all right! And you won’t write it like that .... when .. the guys are going to come and ask, well, where's the money Zin ???? bully

                Quote: Varnaga
                IAC wants to withdraw his certificate of operation


                Because, extreme cases of engines began to happen very often, but these are problems ..... Ivchenko-Progress, not Antonovtsev, will finalize and everything will be normal .... but the official reason ... yes .... .. you can always find, especially at ... Boeing lobby!
              2. nycsson
                nycsson 12 September 2012 16: 11
                +3
                Quote: Varnaga
                Here are the SSJ details:

                50% of foreign components! This is the "level"! negative
            3. bddrus
              bddrus 12 September 2012 19: 02
              +1
              But in the airbus or Boeing?
          2. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 12 September 2012 15: 04
            +9
            Quote: Varnaga
            Learn the Poetreotic Approach

            Varnaga, if production expanded and flourished, there would simply be no such articles. How much money swelled and the results are far from brilliant. And as for the instant, I completely agree, there’s nothing to say even here and I’ll be afraid of such articles.
            1. Varnaga
              Varnaga 12 September 2012 15: 08
              +1
              Yes, I do not care about such articles, in which there is practically no gram of truth, some distortion, etc. An article that would describe an impartial picture, without embellishment and cheating, I would love to read, but alas.
              1. spender
                spender 12 September 2012 15: 12
                +2
                Quote: Varnaga
                An article that would describe an impartial picture, without embellishment and cheating, I would love to read, but alas.

                Would take and write such an article, if so smart and knowledgeable ... While you can only "attack" and find fault ... And without arguments and facts, but with some kind of stamps covered with cobwebs (from long non-use) winked
                1. Varnaga
                  Varnaga 12 September 2012 15: 16
                  +2
                  Moreover, without arguments and facts

                  Well, I quoted above, I’m waiting for your counterarguments) Does Krupnov attack? Hawt? What is its evidence base?)
              2. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 12 September 2012 15: 18
                +1
                Quote: Varnaga
                I don’t give a damn about such articles,

                Do you have a direct relationship with aviation in general?
                Quote: Varnaga
                in which there is practically no gram of truth,

                You will be able to prove.
                1. Varnaga
                  Varnaga 12 September 2012 17: 58
                  +1
                  Do you have a direct relationship with aviation in general?

                  Indirectly very, very. Developed one product for Saturn ... Let's just say, we changed the hydraulics to electromechanics in one node wink
            2. urzul
              urzul 12 September 2012 15: 24
              +2
              And what results are you all waiting for? Xnumx aircraft built in the first year?
              ] Here is a plate for reflection:
              Tu-134 Tu-154 Yak-42 Tu-204 An-148 SSJ-100
              1964 1 1968 2 1975 2 1989 1 2004 1 2008 2
              1965 1 1969 4 1976 4 1990 1 2005 1 2009 2
              1966 7 1970 4 1977 1 1991 2 2006 0 2010 2
              1967 8 1971 11 1978 5 1992 3 2007 0 2011 5
              1968 12 1972 15 1979 3 1993 5 2008 0 2012 7(не окончен)
              1969 21 1973 18 1980 7 1994 2 2009 2 2013
          3. VAF
            VAF 12 September 2012 15: 25
            +7
            Quote: Varnaga
            and let's feed a foreign manufacturer and not restore our aircraft industry? I recognize the poztreotic approach.


            So they are engaged in this, they feed the foreign manufacturer and they do it !!!

            Purely analogy of "screwdriver production of cars" and what is the worst thing is that this "Miracle Yudo" is assembled at the most necessary factories in the country! Another would be in Irkut .. put .. something ... and then ... in general it will be complete ... well ......!

            Well, the 148 car is many times superior in quality and operational reliability ... this is ours-ours .... Super-duper!
            Yours!
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 12 September 2012 15: 36
              +1
              Quote: vaf

              Well, the 148 car is many times superior both in quality and operational reliability ... this is ours-ours .... Super-duper

              Sergey, well, now Varnaga will bring his arguments and listen to who is right.
              1. Varnaga
                Varnaga 12 September 2012 18: 20
                0
                I’ve already cited what’s wrong with the engine? No, well, it’s necessary, all that’s the central drive of the drive box is ragged, it’s business, alone show off.
                Here, by the way, I recently met with the senior inspector of the Central Transport Authority of Russian Railways on the quality of one product developed and manufactured in our design bureau for a shunting diesel locomotive ... So, for some key discrepancies of the design documentation, he arranged such a spacing, with a ban on operation, up to eliminate comments that for this lesson I will be grateful to him for a long time. This is in the Russian Railways, in aviation, as I understand it, the requirements are even tougher ... In this regard, the question is, is it true that Antonov’s go to be transplanted to foreign engines in the AN-148, because the patient is more likely dead than alive? No.
                1. VAF
                  VAF 12 September 2012 22: 28
                  +3
                  Quote: Varnaga
                  In this regard, the question is, is it true that Antonov’s go to be transplanted to foreign engines in the AN-148,


                  There were such conversations, but so far only conversations. After all, they have the same thing ... there are lobbyists and lovers of the West, but on the other hand, why not?
                  After all, thanks to Super, ours are knocking down the entire line of machines, including the 178th and don’t want them ... I hope it’s understandable why?
                  So they killed the Tu-334, so now ... they’ll finish the 148 car, or rather ... try!
            2. Ustin
              Ustin 12 September 2012 16: 14
              +1
              Without "import" MC21 abroad will not "crawl through" - they simply will not be allowed into the slender ranks of Boeing and Airbus, and the car is positioned there, so you will have to put on export copies. Of course, you can buy technology from them, but what we need, for example; non-inertial navigation systems will strangle, not sell. Even when creating a joint venture. The same is with composites. Now the plant has started a steady launch. Let's see what will happen in six months on this topic, much will be clear both in cooperation and complete set.
              1. FID
                FID 12 September 2012 16: 18
                +4
                MS-21 is waiting for a more sad fate. They promise to raise it in 2017. And Bombardier - his CS300 in 2014. And this machine is a direct competitor to the MS-21. Draw your own conclusions.
                1. urzul
                  urzul 12 September 2012 16: 26
                  0
                  They have a huge difference in passenger seats, the MS-21 has a minimum of 150, and the Bombardier has a maximum of 142
                  1. FID
                    FID 12 September 2012 16: 37
                    +3
                    To 160. They made three hundred more.
                    1. urzul
                      urzul 12 September 2012 16: 41
                      +2
                      Well, all the same, the MS-21 in the maximum modification of 230 is declared, they only slightly overlap. Since 150 is a minimum.
                2. VAF
                  VAF 12 September 2012 17: 08
                  +1
                  Quote: SSI
                  And this car is a direct competitor to the MS-21. Draw your own conclusions.


                  Seryozha, the same story as with duper! Where to rub with .... erysipelas in the Kalash line, when there are Embraers 175-195 and ... they don’t have time to grab ... they’re in a queue for 5 years ...... therefore ... take , at least someone ... at least Mexicans ... for tequila probably ...... the catalog price of 700 million for 20 pieces ..... nichrome a discount for everyone .. from each ... 4 lyam .. .bams !!!! bully







                  And so it is possible to ... infinity .....! +!

                  By 2010, the company shared the third or fourth place with the Canadian Bombardier among the largest suppliers of commercial airliners, behind the Boeing and Airbus companies !!!!!!

                  Something I Pogosyanovsky in this list .... I do not watch, and even more so with duper ???

                  In 2009, the company delivered to commercial customers more than 240 aircraft. Today there are about 600 (!!!!!!!) and the queue is worth ......

                  Even the Belarusians and those brothers, not Puper, but Embraer are buying for themselves !!!

                  1. FID
                    FID 12 September 2012 18: 26
                    +4
                    Yes, in general, the MS-21 was cut. First of all, they are going to produce MS-21-300. This is a 180 seater car. I'm afraid Bombardier will surpass anyway!
            3. Varnaga
              Varnaga 12 September 2012 18: 03
              +3
              I repeat, your division, give me an example of an aircraft in this category in which you do not use the above foreign manufacturers? Who in general will bring you such a unique, purely domestic market? Do you want to live, be able to share, I think so.
              Threat to us, even at the university, a technical teacher taught an example of his friend, NAM, by the way, who works in Detroit: TK is issued in the USA, developed in Australia, components are made in China (under license, of course), assembled in Japan and brought to the assembly unit in the USA . But no, we have our own unique way! Meanwhile, even in the strategic nuclear forces, self-sufficiency is not reached, but forum fighters don’t give a damn about it.
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 12 September 2012 18: 13
                +5
                Quote: Varnaga
                Who in general will bring you such a unique, purely domestic market?

                More recently, the entire design and derivative base was in our country and we made airplanes and sold them all over the world. But much has been lost, not only thanks to Gorbatom, but also to the liberals who came to his place, who are yelling about democracy in the swamp . It is necessary to restore both factories and, most importantly, personnel.
                1. Varnaga
                  Varnaga 12 September 2012 18: 38
                  0
                  27 years ago, recently? Some states manage to create and disintegrate during this period. sad
                  . It is necessary to restore both factories and, most importantly, personnel.

                  Completely in favor, I can’t find a normal designer in the sector for a month already, with a technologist, although the city is more than industrial. Mostly young people come, a little older than me, who don’t remember the topic of their diploma smile
                  By the way, the SRC is located next to us, a year ago, the Department of Rocket Engineering was restored at the ETF of South Ural State University, this is to the question that our government is not doing anything, but only falling apart.
                  1. Alexander Romanov
                    Alexander Romanov 12 September 2012 18: 49
                    +2
                    Quote: Varnaga
                    a year ago, at ETF SUSU, the Department of Rocket Engineering was restored, this is to the question that our government does nothing, but only ruins

                    And who says that there are no pluses, they are. But the minuses are also obvious, and you close your eyes, well, whom we are deceiving, only ourselves. If the leadership starts poking at the sites, it will begin to move in the minuses, especially in the field.
                    Quote: Varnaga
                    I can’t find a normal designer in the sector for a month, with a technologist,

                    And to close these grief private universities that stamp the army of lawyers, and instead of them to restore vocational schools to start and prestige professions.
        2. Aleks28
          Aleks28 12 September 2012 14: 47
          -2
          Quote: SSI
          aviation industry. The former!
          Cherz chur, everything turns out black, but it’s not a secret; everything is not in order, especially with the management, but bury it early. And let Ukraine move Antonov, she’s more interested there. And it turns out on this site, or terrible pessimists, or such- optimists. And where are the realists?
          1. spender
            spender 12 September 2012 14: 56
            +4
            Quote: Allex28
            Cherz chur, everything turns out black, but it’s no secret there’s not everything is in order especially with the management, but bury it early

            SSI is personally familiar with the situation, he works in this industry !!! Will you "take off your glasses" from Israel (Germany)? fool
            Quote: Allex28
            But let Antonov move Ukraine, she is more interested there.

            Ukraine alone "will not do it" if Russia does not help, then other "sponsors" will be found, but Russia will only lose from this recourse
            1. Aleks28
              Aleks28 12 September 2012 15: 15
              -1
              Quote: spender
              SSI is personally familiar with the situation, he works in this industry !!! Will you "take off your glasses" from Israel (Germany)?
              Well, if we have all the specialists in the abiaprom, then it’s like a khan, we’ll dry the oars. I don’t have anything to do with Israel, and I don’t take off my glasses, if I take off, I always communicate.

              Quote: spender
              Ukraine alone "will not do it" if Russia does not help, then other "sponsors" will be found, but Russia will only lose from this
              Russia will lose even more if it moves foreign projects, and freezes its own projects. In order to understand this, it is not necessary to work in the aviation industry.
              1. FID
                FID 12 September 2012 15: 28
                +3
                Quote: Allex28
                Well, if we have all the specialists in the abiaprom, then it’s like a khan, we’ll dry the oars. I don’t have anything to do with Israel, and I don’t take off my glasses, if I take off, I always communicate.

                Excuse me, how did you determine my qualifications? By literacy or maybe even by what grounds? But in general, where do you work, so that others can try to evaluate you as a specialist, of course.
                1. Aleks28
                  Aleks28 12 September 2012 15: 39
                  +1
                  If interested, then please: a loader in a warehouse.
              2. Aleks28
                Aleks28 12 September 2012 15: 33
                0
                Quote: Allex28
                Quote: spender
                SSI is personally familiar with the situation, he works in this industry !!! Will you "take off your glasses" from Israel (Germany)?
                Well, if we have all the specialists in the abiaprom, then it’s like a khan, we’ll dry the oars. I don’t have anything to do with Israel, and I don’t take off my glasses, if I take off, I always communicate.
                Well, that noticed, I meant your pessimism, not qualifications.
                1. spender
                  spender 12 September 2012 15: 36
                  +2
                  Quote: Allex28
                  , I meant your pessimism, not qualifications.

                  Well, if there is no reason for optimism, then why should I make a fool of myself here, because as you know, "laughter for no reason is a sign of foolishness," and there are enough clowns here without me, they praise Poghosyan, "the defender of the domestic aircraft industry" ... laughing
                  1. Aleks28
                    Aleks28 12 September 2012 17: 05
                    +2
                    And about Poghosyan, you can read my past comments. I even received a letter in PM with threats from the Armenians.
                    1. spender
                      spender 12 September 2012 17: 07
                      +6
                      Quote: Allex28
                      .Me even sent a letter with threats from the Armenians in PM.

                      So soon the package with fruits from Azerbaijan will be suitable laughing
                      1. Aleks28
                        Aleks28 12 September 2012 17: 08
                        +3
                        I won’t wait crying
          2. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 12 September 2012 15: 05
            +3
            Quote: Allex28
            .And where are the realists?

            And you forgive what area you work in?
            1. Aleks28
              Aleks28 12 September 2012 15: 17
              +1
              This is not the case with the aviation industry for sure.
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              And you forgive what area you work in?
          3. VAF
            VAF 12 September 2012 15: 36
            +3
            Quote: Allex28
            And where are the realists?


            Here are realists, here ...... And realists and specialists who, unlike some (I do not rank you yet) do not sit at computers and read official sites, but go to factories and airlines and work in this field!


            Quote: Allex28
            Cherz chur you get it all black


            This is Seryoga very softly wrote, I would have written much BLACK !!!!
            1. Aleks28
              Aleks28 12 September 2012 15: 49
              +3
              Quote: vaf

              Here are realists, here ...... And realists and specialists who, unlike some (I do not rank you yet) do not sit at computers and read official sites, but go to factories and airlines and work in this field!
              You can safely rank me. But if he wrote in the former, how can you work there that is not there?
              1. FID
                FID 12 September 2012 16: 28
                +5
                Trying to maintain what's left! Or do you think that the Tu-160 or Tu-22 fly because there are UAC? Quite the contrary, contrary to the fact that there is such an organization!
                1. Aleks28
                  Aleks28 12 September 2012 16: 52
                  +2
                  You see, there is certainly an aviation industry. I just wanted to tell you this. I know if I react very sharply to such articles. At work I constantly have to argue with the locals. According to their concepts, there are no bears, balalaika and vodka in Russia. HERE IDEOLOGY IS BETTER THAN SOVIET. And right away if you can ask a question: Why is there a constant disruption of supplies. What is an ambush. By the way, Airrbas has the same picture, I don’t know about Boeing
                  1. Aleks28
                    Aleks28 12 September 2012 18: 31
                    0
                    And about Pogosyan and Co. I have already spoken out.
              2. VAF
                VAF 12 September 2012 17: 35
                0
                Quote: Allex28
                how can you work there which is not?


                Silently ..... this is only in the song ..... "on parole and on one wing", but in life .... there is no new shit, so we are engaged in ... renewal, repair. Renewal again. .. there is no money for repairs ... again by extension ... by pulling ... and so on and so forth !!!
            2. nycsson
              nycsson 12 September 2012 16: 15
              +2
              Quote: vaf
              This is Seryoga very softly wrote, I would have written much BLACK !!!!

              Greetings! I’m reading comments, I don’t enter into polemics, as I’m not an expert in this field. Can i ask you? Is everything really so bad in our aviation industry? Thanks in advance! hi
              1. FID
                FID 12 September 2012 16: 29
                +4
                Poorly! Not yet deadly, but close.
                1. nycsson
                  nycsson 12 September 2012 17: 04
                  0
                  Quote: SSI
                  Poorly! Not yet deadly, but close.

                  Thanks for the information! hi
              2. VAF
                VAF 12 September 2012 17: 12
                0
                Quote: nycsson
                Is everything really so bad in our aviation industry?


                Alexey, namesake has already answered everything, there’s nothing to add, +! soldier
                1. nycsson
                  nycsson 12 September 2012 20: 37
                  0
                  Quote: vaf
                  Alexey, namesake has already answered everything, there’s nothing to add, +!

                  I understood you........
            3. Karish
              Karish 12 September 2012 20: 15
              +1
              Quote: vaf
              This is Seryoga very softly wrote, I would have written much BLACK !!!!

              Sergey, in general, you scare me (or rather you), but infa, I flew to St. Petersburg in April, 2 years ago I flew TRANSAERO, now probably only EL AL, albeit more expensive, but there (above) who needs the fuck.
              1. VAF
                VAF 12 September 2012 23: 18
                +3
                Quote: Karish
                in general, you scare me (or rather, not you), but infa, I fly to St. Petersburg in April


                Sasha, you surprise me, you have 3 chic international companies. and the national carrier EL AL, so generally .... there are no words and am I telling you this ????

                In my time, I regularly flew to Moscow, I don’t know about Peter, but if not, then calmly to Moscow, and there on a steam train, every hour passes ... 8 hours and you are in St. Petersburg, but if Sapsan, then generally .. no problem 4 hours!

                And so the charter should be full and be calm .... Super-duper to ..... Israel does not fly! +!

                Transaero is the same .. nothing, because their cars are importing everything and they are constantly updating, but better than their own. I liked it more.

                Recently, with the youngest, they returned from Dubai ... there to Emirates, back to Siberia (S7) ....... heaven and earth! Even comparing ... is incorrect .... recourse
                1. Karish
                  Karish 12 September 2012 23: 25
                  +1
                  Quote: vaf
                  and the national carrier EL AL, so generally .... there are no words and am I telling you this ????

                  You're certainly right, and the knives with forks are iron there, a trifle, but nice. good
                  1. igor67
                    igor67 12 September 2012 23: 28
                    +1
                    Karish,
                    And they didn’t take the mineral water .. they didn’t pay attention to the 3 kg overweight.
          4. Old
            Old 12 September 2012 16: 27
            +2
            He drew attention to the author of the article, sort of like a familiar last name seemed, found. Interest in the movement of labor activity did not linger on duty:

            http://www.kroupnov.ru/biography.html
            1. urzul
              urzul 12 September 2012 16: 37
              +1
              In February 1984 years graduated from the faculty of agriculture Peoples' Friendship University P. Lumumba (Department of Agronomy, specialization "Biophysics and Plant Physiology").
              In May 1984 of the year to December, 1985 of the year served as a private in the Armed Forces of the USSR, part of the Special Forces.
              1. VAF
                VAF 12 September 2012 17: 44
                -1
                Quote: urzul
                In May 1984 of the year to December, 1985 of the year served as a private in the Armed Forces of the USSR, part of the Special Forces.


                Andrey, at least this one served as an ordinary, but "their" Stool .... immediately ... got married wassat
                and .... then he .... ". how flooded" bully

                Remember ... ".. the catch phrase" Bears ?????

              2. Karish
                Karish 12 September 2012 20: 21
                +1
                Quote: urzul
                Peoples' Friendship University P. Lumumba (Department of Agronomy, specialization "Biophysics and Plant Physiology").

                Well, yes. In Lumumba, nerds were taught.
                From the international violin competition, two are returning home to the USSR.
                One took second place. Crying. Well, just heartbroken. :(
                Another took the penultimate, comforting the first:
                - Yes, the second place for the country is also cool!
                First:
                - If you took it first, they would have let us play the Stradivarius violin! :(
                - And what is she special?
                - You see, for me to play the Stradivarius violin, how to shoot for you
                from the Dzerzhinsky revolver!

                Quote: urzul
                1985 served as a private in the Armed forces of the USSR, part of the Special Forces

                ordinary. after Lumumba (it's like the Uryupinsky Agricultural Institute, there was no military department there)
                For your information, in Lumumbu it was harder to do Plekhanovka. and indeed, only in the direction of the organs.
        3. urzul
          urzul 12 September 2012 14: 57
          +3
          Only now 9 Sukhoi aircraft with an average duration of operation 7 months (purely for comparison) made 5750 flights and even with average occupancy in 50 passengers 287 500 people transported.
          An-148 8 pieces fly after all?
          And one more fact, this is for the FIRST year of operation, you can tell how many 148 were transported in the first year in terms of an airplane.
          An-148 has a very aggressive lobby in the Ukrainian government.
          1. spender
            spender 12 September 2012 15: 04
            +5
            Quote: urzul
            An-148 has a very aggressive lobby in the Ukrainian government.

            Well, here Poghosyan also chews off large chunks of the "budget pie" for a reason ... Here the lobby is also powerful and far from peaceful winked
            1. urzul
              urzul 12 September 2012 15: 58
              0
              At least from the KLA did not give such interviews:
              While Putin's Russia plays paper airplanes, Ukraine has certified An-148 by ICAO - 4

              http://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2007/02/02/115341.html
          2. S_mirnov
            S_mirnov 12 September 2012 15: 15
            +2
            Urzul, are you again broadcasting from a parallel universe?
            http://demotivation.me/dnmj2w626qompic.html
            http://news.rambler.ru/15484460/
            the mess in the aviation industry and air transportation is a direct consequence of the fact that our government is interested in everything except the interests of the state! Like - hell with her with aviation, but we’ll put the Siberian Cranes on the wing, we’ll fly on storks, for the Alfasamets!
            1. urzul
              urzul 12 September 2012 15: 30
              +3
              I see you, besides pictures on the Internet, do not believe other facts at all.
              News about Armavia:
              In the spring of 2012, the owner of the company Mikhail Bagdasarov announced the possibility of bankruptcy of the company

              The media reported delays in the payment of wages to crews up to 7 months

              2 Boeing 737 aircraft fly in the liveries of past operators - Czech Airlines and Slovakian airlines. Skeptics attribute this fact to the fact that the procedure for painting an airplane costs tens of thousands of dollars, and the airline does not have enough finance.

              YES, they cannot pay for the first Sukhoi, so they are trying to play. Like, give us a good discount or we will make such an advertisement for you.
              1. FID
                FID 12 September 2012 16: 40
                +3
                Quote: urzul

                I see you, besides pictures on the Internet, do not believe other facts at all.
                News about Armavia:
                In the spring of 2012, the owner of the company Mikhail Bagdasarov announced the possibility of bankruptcy of the company
                The media reported delays in the payment of wages to crews up to 7 months
                2 Boeing 737 aircraft fly in the liveries of past operators - Czech Airlines and Slovakian airlines. Skeptics attribute this fact to the fact that the procedure for painting an airplane costs tens of thousands of dollars, and the airline does not have enough finance.
                YES, they cannot pay for the first Sukhoi, so they are trying to play. Like, give us a good discount or we will make such an advertisement for you.

                But ordered 2 more bobiks. Bankrupt mother of them.
                1. urzul
                  urzul 12 September 2012 16: 49
                  +2
                  Yeah, also 320, BUT promising does not mean getting married;))
                  They also did not officially refuse Sukhoi.
                  About bankruptcy, owners do not joke with such things
                  http://lenta.ru/news/2012/03/09/avia/

                  http://lenta.ru/articles/2012/03/11/armavia/
          3. FID
            FID 12 September 2012 15: 16
            +8
            An-148 in the a / c Russia - 6 cars. Today they carried a millionth passenger. Another 2 cars fly in flight. They have less plaque. Do you have aviation specialists among my opponents? Or will we operate information from the Internet? According to Aeroflot, according to the results of a seven-month operation (just do not need to ask for links, contact Aeroflot!) The real range of the superjet was 2400 km, instead of the claimed 4500. Yesterday, once again, the super flight to Astrakhan was canceled (SCR failure). In fact, half of the AFL super fleet is at the wall. Maybe, over time, they will bring this car to mind, but how much money still needs to be swelled into it. And if you plunge a little into history ... Poghosyan won a competition for the production of a regional plane, proposing to make a plane WITHOUT BUDGETARY FINANCING. Since then, a lot of water has flowed ... And money, too.
            1. Varnaga
              Varnaga 12 September 2012 15: 27
              +1
              July 2012 was the record breaking raid for the Superjet
              - For the first time, one plane flew almost 300 hours (RA-89005)
              - A total of 715 flights were completed, which is 27% more than last month and 22% more than ever (May 2012)
              - a raid on the park amounted to 1332.35 h
              - 4 sides flew 200+ hours (in May there were 3 aircraft, in June - 2) - and this taking into account the fact that the average flight time decreased.
              - And while the RA-89008 was still at the air show.

              The IAC Aviation Register, which issued an An-148 type certificate, may limit the operation of these airliners due to engine problems.

              A letter signed by the Director General of the Aviation Register of the IAC Alexander Donchenko to the general designers of GP Antonov and GP Ivchenko-Progress reports on recent serious incidents related to the failure of marching propulsion systems on the An-148-100.

              The text deals with the destruction of the central drive gearbox and the destruction of the motor bearing.

              IAC insists on the operational implementation of GP Antonov, together with GP Ivchenko-Progress, the necessary corrective actions aimed at eliminating the repetition of such failures in operation.

              "If the technical solutions are not adopted in a short time, aimed at eliminating these shortcomings on the part of the aircraft designer and engine designer, the IAC Aviation Register will issue organizational airworthiness directives in accordance with international certification practice," the letter says.

              The Airworthiness Directive implies that no aircraft in respect of which it is issued can fly without fulfilling the provisions specified therein.

              In fact, this means a ban on the operation of An-148 aircraft until the deficiencies specified in the directive are eliminated.

              Message from the State Customs Committee

              from August 1 to August 31, 2011 it flew 400 hours 45 minutes, showing a high level of system reliability. To achieve this result, an individual schedule was compiled for an aircraft with tail number 61704, which provided the necessary flight intensity. During this period, 153 flights were completed and 8 passengers were transported.

              But for some reason, another important event went unnoticed - that in July 2012, without any window dressing according to the usual schedule, the RA-89005 flew 300 hours and completed 154 flights, surpassing the spectacular An-148 result in the number of flights.

              A year and a month after the start of operation, in July 2012 the average number of flights to the AFL for a functioning Superjet was 140 flights per month on board or 4.5 flights per day.
            2. urzul
              urzul 12 September 2012 15: 39
              +1
              Sergey, what raid in the first year everyone saw at 148, open the secret.
              1. FID
                FID 12 September 2012 15: 55
                +5

                Sergey, what raid in the first year everyone saw at 148, open the secret.


                Hours 70 or so. But An did not demand money for improvements. It came to the ridiculous - they drove with them - the airports were not adapted. Several times they turned to the Federal Air Transport Agency with a request to reduce airport charges (as the first operator) - they received a shish. But by the end of the second year of operation with 6 cars, they reached profitability. Once again, super - an unsuccessful aircraft. And Poghosyan won a competition for him, promising not to spend budgetary money.
                1. urzul
                  urzul 12 September 2012 16: 03
                  +1
                  Do you have side incident statistics? AFL.
                  I would like to compare with the statistics of 148 from "Russia"
                  1. FID
                    FID 12 September 2012 16: 21
                    +1
                    No statistics. Somehow uninteresting. And for 148 what interests you? Common ailments or what? There are no special complaints over the past year.
                    1. urzul
                      urzul 12 September 2012 16: 33
                      +2
                      05.03.12 Engine failure while flying to Hamburg \
                      29.02.12 Autopilot crash while flying to St. Petersburg \
                      05.03.12 ENGINE FAILURE and again Hamburg \
                      03.05.12 Failure BC flight Peter-Omsk \
                      10.06.12 The front landing gear was not cleaned, flight to Krasnodar \
                      01.07.12 ENGINE FAILURE flight to Pulkovo \
                      09.07.12 RA-61701 emergency landing, reason not found \
                      All kinds of equipment failures on the ground and false alarms did not even write.
                      1. FID
                        FID 12 September 2012 18: 31
                        +4
                        It would be nice to have the same in detail about the AFL with Armavia. Let's imagine the situation. Super and An - both on earth have an EDSU failure. Which car will fly? The situation is very real (he himself was in it).
              2. nycsson
                nycsson 12 September 2012 17: 06
                +1
                Quote: urzul
                Sergey, what raid in the first year everyone saw at 148, open the secret.

                And why are you so attached to this plane? This is our car ....... request
          4. VAF
            VAF 12 September 2012 15: 41
            +3
            Quote: urzul
            Only here are 9 Sukhoi aircraft with an average life of 7 months


            Andrei, well, let's not go into this topic ...... I understand what I want, but .....

            they call the national carrier and say ... it’s necessary to take it and, in principle, it is obliged .... or not .... they’ve taken it, and now they are crying with burning tears, and they have come to Transaero ... those of them that are like mushrooms. ..showed where to go with him ... here they go and run, who else would bet ... now the hat with the Mexicans ..... they can, because the line at Embraer is scheduled for 5 years (!!! !) The analogue of Super-Superfood, or rather, what kind of analogue .. Super just looks like, and didn’t stand next to Embraer !!!
            1. urzul
              urzul 12 September 2012 15: 46
              +2
              I agree, if you discover a secret than Interjet pressed as much on 20 boards !? the first of the order has already taken off !!!
              Well, we also have a queue for 65 boards painted, as they say here at a pace of 5 aircraft per year, it's already on 11;)))
              1. VAF
                VAF 12 September 2012 17: 17
                -1
                Quote: urzul
                I agree, if you discover a secret than Interjet pressed as much as 20 boards!


                I’ll open ..... you can grab it on the neck! The catalog price for a foreign customer is 37 million.

                The catalog price for 20 pieces for Mexicans is 700 million. for 20 pieces ..... ??????

                Further calculation is not difficult ???? But the conditions are already specific, alas ........ trade secret ...... but you would ahu ........ like me .... if you knew !!!!! bully
                1. urzul
                  urzul 12 September 2012 17: 18
                  +2
                  2 million discount from an airplane, although they didn’t make an order for 5 machines.
                  The AFL seems to have bought on 32, Transaero also takes on 35.
                  For the sake of entering the market, you can go for such a discount.
                  1. VAF
                    VAF 12 September 2012 17: 47
                    +1
                    Quote: urzul
                    although they didn’t make an order for 5 cars.


                    So I'm talking about the same ..... that is not 5, but 20! So this is an official release !!! bully +!
                    1. Yasen Ping
                      Yasen Ping 12 September 2012 19: 38
                      -4
                      Do you know what infuriates me in you ????? You shout here, pronounce the correct digits, maybe it’s all true !!!, but what shout here ??????? What is weak before the leadership shout ???? Why are you pumping up the negative ??? If you honestly like a grandmother on a bench, everything is bad ((((, do you want your descendants to remember ???? so do something, and not here, shit everything ((((
                      1. VAF
                        VAF 12 September 2012 23: 21
                        +6
                        Quote: Yasen Pin
                        Do you know what infuriates me in you ?????


                        And you vodichkoy.vodichkoy..holodnoy, and better ..vushik..kontrastnyy. Know helps ... from rabies !!! lol
        4. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 12 September 2012 15: 02
          +3
          Quote: SSI
          Unfortunately, to the BIG regret, the article highlights the almost real state of affairs in the aviation industry. The former!

          The article is dedicated to lobbyists and alegarchs, whose momentary benefit of their own pockets does not intersect with the interests of the country. You work in the industry and you probably know better.
        5. S_mirnov
          S_mirnov 12 September 2012 15: 07
          +7
          I’m just struck by the unwillingness of the population of our country to perceive the surrounding reality, how much they poke their shit with their nose,
          http://www.argumenti.ru/economics/n355/200502
          http://lenta.ru/news/2012/02/09/legitimacy/
          http://demotivation.me/5x55yv1qwz0vpic.html
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7OpoXByucs&feature=related
          and they all sacredly believe that patriots are at the helm of our Motherland!
          Like "it is inappropriate to rock the boat" and then the oligarchs feel nauseous!

          It is especially frightening that people who have received a normal Soviet education are gradually dying out and are being replaced by young managers from Seliger, with a completely knocked down scale of values.
          1. bddrus
            bddrus 12 September 2012 19: 28
            0
            Eka you’ve hit the head with the word Seliger, and splash with malice - in such an agreement in society, we will of course catch up with everyone and overtake
            1. S_mirnov
              S_mirnov 13 September 2012 00: 01
              +1
              I do not agree, this is not anger - it is hatred of the enemies of Russia and the Russian people. and "consent in society" is needed only when the society is consolidated around the correct productive idea (in my opinion, this is AVN), if the society is trying to deceive - we must fight!
        6. nycsson
          nycsson 12 September 2012 15: 54
          +2
          Quote: SSI
          Unfortunately, I’m not stopping, it’s been repeating for a year now, but it is SO!

          I support you! Do you have information how many planes were released for the 11-12 of the year and how many were purchased over the hill?
          1. urzul
            urzul 12 September 2012 16: 07
            +2
            2011 - 5 aircraft transferred
            2012 - 5 aircraft transferred
            After all, they are interested in those transferred to the customer
            This year they will definitely receive:
            AFL - 1 board
            Yakutia - 1 board
            Interjet - 1 board
            Sky Aviation - 1 board
            It is possible that another 2 aircraft will be delivered by the end of the year
            1. nycsson
              nycsson 12 September 2012 17: 09
              -1
              Quote: urzul
              It is possible that another 2 aircraft will be delivered by the end of the year

              Not much! Well, is the purchase foreign?
              1. urzul
                urzul 12 September 2012 17: 15
                +1
                Interjet - 1 board
                Sky Aviation - 1 board
                And who do you think this is?
                Directly in the construction of now 3 sides for Mexico and two for Laos and Indonesia, this is not counting Russia
                1. bddrus
                  bddrus 12 September 2012 19: 29
                  +1
                  I think he meant how many of our AKs were purchased by boards abroad?
                  1. nycsson
                    nycsson 12 September 2012 20: 35
                    0
                    Quote: bddrus
                    I think he meant how many of our AKs were purchased by boards abroad?

                    Well, of course! good
                2. nycsson
                  nycsson 12 September 2012 20: 35
                  +1
                  Quote: urzul
                  And who do you think this is?

                  You don’t understand me! How many Russian companies bought Boeing, etc. This is what interests me. Whatever Thank you! hi
            2. S_mirnov
              S_mirnov 13 September 2012 00: 14
              0
              http://demotivation.me/dnmj2w626qompic.html
              Well, what can I say, a very "convincing achievement" to push the production of aircraft, this is not Sterkhov to teach you to fly. However, I offended the People who really worked with Siberian Cranes. :(
      3. nycsson
        nycsson 12 September 2012 15: 53
        0
        Quote: Allex28
        Yeshe and not write that. As we quickly like to put the i over i. As you read, everyone has already been buried.

        And as you honor, you are so amazed. Article fat plus for the truth! crying
    2. spender
      spender 12 September 2012 14: 27
      +2
      Gnobli, rotten, and it turned out that without trial and sentence. What will begin when the verdict is pronounced? recourse
    3. with
      with 12 September 2012 14: 36
      +1
      Quote: Vanek
      The government of Medvedev issued a death sentence for the Russian aviation industry

      The government of Medvedev himself must pass a death sentence!
      And the day is not far off when they take it out!
      1. nycsson
        nycsson 12 September 2012 17: 09
        +2
        Quote: met
        The government of Medvedev himself must pass a death sentence!
        And the day is not far off when they take it out!

        What's wrong with you? request
        1. with
          with 12 September 2012 18: 11
          0
          Quote: nycsson
          What's wrong with you?

          In what sense? request
          1. nycsson
            nycsson 12 September 2012 20: 33
            +1
            Quote: met
            In what sense?

            Have you changed your views? I thought you would write in their defense ..... hi
            1. with
              with 12 September 2012 20: 46
              +2
              Quote: nycsson
              Have you changed your views? I thought you would write in their defense .....

              Why do you think so?
              I have not changed my views !!!
              I defend only when I see no justice.
              Or when annoyed by screams, everything is gone !!! hi
    4. pirate technician
      pirate technician 12 September 2012 14: 38
      +2
      Honestly, gentlemen, I did not particularly believe Medvedev during his presidency and now I do not particularly trust during the premiership. In my opinion, Putin will be more successful, and look more productively at these posts.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 12 September 2012 15: 07
        +8
        Quote: piratehnik
        In my opinion, Putin will be more successful, and look more productively at these posts.

        The result does not change from a change in the places of the terms.
        1. Karish
          Karish 12 September 2012 15: 18
          +5
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          The result does not change from a change in the places of the terms.

          Good afternoon, Alexander.
          I get the impression that the three Rogozin-Putin-Medvedev are working.
          By agreement. with Verkhovna Rogozin voices another idea, depending on the reaction of people (if they shawled, believed and didn’t laugh), Putin connects at the peak of popularity (to understand where the wind comes from) and breaks all ovations when it comes to implementation, if it doesn’t work out whipping boy Medvedev and raking in full.
          In general, as a good security officer, GDP is always in chocolate, and the rest are idiots and it is not known how they appeared in the government, and when Putin unloads a little from all the grandiose affairs, he will understand who he is and will punish the guilty .... then we will live drinks
        2. nycsson
          nycsson 12 September 2012 16: 39
          0
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          The result does not change from a change in the places of the terms.

          +! It is known from the school bench! laughing
      2. S_mirnov
        S_mirnov 12 September 2012 15: 23
        +4
        Thank you Pyrotechnician, I laughed to tears, really VVP "looks" more successful "whatever one may say!" what's on the combine, what's on the viburnum, what's on the hang-glider!
        1. Odessa
          Odessa 12 September 2012 15: 26
          +9
          S_mirnov,
          Thank you Pyrotechnician, I laughed to tears, really VVP "looks" more successful "whatever one may say!" what's on the combine, what's on the viburnum, what's on the hang-glider!

          What a shark.
          1. Karish
            Karish 12 September 2012 15: 46
            0
            Quote: Odessa
            What a shark.

            Odessa, you do not scare me.
            1. Karish
              Karish 12 September 2012 18: 24
              +3
              Quote: Odessa
              What a shark.
              1. Yasen Ping
                Yasen Ping 12 September 2012 19: 32
                +2
                Karish, what do you need here ???? Jesus told you not to go east !!! You carry your truth among your masses !!!
          2. Karish
            Karish 12 September 2012 18: 21
            0
            Quote: Odessa
            What a shark.
          3. Novosibirsky
            Novosibirsky 12 September 2012 23: 30
            0
            Yes, it's Photoshop! He is dry !!! belay
            1. Odessa
              Odessa 13 September 2012 00: 07
              +1
              Novosibirsky,
              He is dry !!!

              Who knows? And with an ear from shark fins, it’s also very, maybe! bully
        2. nycsson
          nycsson 12 September 2012 16: 41
          0
          Quote: S_mirnov
          Thank you Pyrotechnician, I laughed to tears, really VVP "looks" more successful "whatever one may say!" what's on the combine, what's on the viburnum, what's on the hang-glider!

          laughing laughing laughing I laugh to tears! laughing laughing laughing
    5. nycsson
      nycsson 12 September 2012 15: 51
      -1
      Quote: Vanek
      Evil Fools !!!

      What are you? True, but I did not know ....... negative
    6. Vadivak
      Vadivak 12 September 2012 16: 21
      +3
      Last year, only 11 domestic aircraft were manufactured,

      Only mass shootings will save the motherland
      1. nycsson
        nycsson 12 September 2012 17: 12
        +3
        Quote: Vadivak
        Only mass shootings will save the motherland

        I agree! good I hope so! We are now at a crossroads, or come to our senses, or a kayuk! hi
    7. dark_65
      dark_65 13 September 2012 07: 47
      0
      That's Vanek, ............. In Voronezh, production is being curtailed ... what remains?
  2. Retx
    Retx 12 September 2012 14: 31
    -1
    The article contains the theses of a planned economy ... Voronezh Aircraft Plant works, strange, they need to be informed then, otherwise the workers are not in the know
    1. FID
      FID 12 September 2012 14: 52
      +4
      VASO will work if there are orders for An-148. IL-93-300 make the last car. IL-96-400 is not known whether the flight will be taken or not. And UAC forms orders for An-148. It is easy to calculate: 2- in the Arctic Ocean, 2- in the Ministry of Emergencies, 3- in the Angara. More is not heard.
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 12 September 2012 16: 31
        +3
        When the government and 1 switch to Boeing, then that's it. Khan. As with the auto industry, drive a Mercier, and his native FIG
        1. nycsson
          nycsson 12 September 2012 17: 14
          0
          Quote: Vadivak
          ride a Mercier, and his native FIG

          So it’s necessary to think how to reach such a level? And in order to think, brains are needed! And what to do when they are not? So you have to ride on the Mercier! Thank God the pipes are still under pressure ..........
      2. nycsson
        nycsson 12 September 2012 16: 37
        0
        Quote: SSI
        VASO will work if there are orders for An-148. IL-93-300 make the last car. IL-96-400 is not known whether the flight will be taken or not. And UAC forms orders for An-148. It is easy to calculate: 2- in the Arctic Ocean, 2- in the Ministry of Emergencies, 3- in the Angara. More is not heard.

        It is necessary to prohibit the purchase of foreign aircraft! Forgot about joining the WTO! It’s not fate ........ crying
  3. shtabs
    shtabs 12 September 2012 14: 31
    -2
    another pro-Western correspondent decided to distinguish himself from the gray masses ...
  4. wulf66
    wulf66 12 September 2012 14: 37
    -5
    They’re dripping onto the brains again ... but there are listeners, or rather supporters who like to discuss the details of the collapse of Russia as a whole or in any particular area. Article minus.
    1. nycsson
      nycsson 12 September 2012 16: 33
      0
      Quote: wulf66
      Article minus.

      Article plus!
      1. Azazel
        Azazel 12 September 2012 17: 50
        -2
        Article minus! The site turns orange every day sad .
  5. Forget
    Forget 12 September 2012 14: 38
    +1
    eh ..... and you started Putin the best ...
    1. patsantre
      patsantre 12 September 2012 15: 03
      -3
      And you directly took and believed in this little digest of rumors and reformulated facts?
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 12 September 2012 15: 21
        +2
        Quote: patsantre

        And you directly took and believed in this little digest of rumors and reformulated facts?

        Well, imagine yours and when there will be something to talk about.
  6. Nuclear_eagle
    Nuclear_eagle 12 September 2012 14: 40
    0
    Well, an article. Something in the style of "ruined everything", "Putin is a thief." We are on the right course, comrades!
  7. Varnaga
    Varnaga 12 September 2012 14: 40
    +3
    Attention! You do not have permission to view hidden text.

    "expert" is annealing with hellish idiocy, only now, EMNIP, the order book for SSJ is 170 aircraft.
    The answer, by the way, is simple, the shit expert was once wiped from the state feeder and, as you might have guessed, he fell into fierce criticism, scumbling at every step, which we see.
    Finally, to complete the picture, immediately after joining the WTO in August, the leaders of the country suddenly suddenly began talking about the need to “develop the domestic aircraft industry” through the introduction of ... screwdriver assembly of foreign aircraft.

    Where did this piece of [censorship] come from? what screwdriver assembly?
    SSJ for noobs like Krupnov
    from China, which has almost become out of phase with us from a non-aviation - aviation world power

    is it China then an aviation power?)) Have they made at least one aircraft engine with a resource that spans several tens of hours?))
    Well, as a true Potstreot, Krupnov did not fail to recall Comrade Stalin, just a reference.
    Admins would be ashamed to hang out such zero absolutely engaged footcloths.
    1. CEO
      CEO 12 September 2012 14: 52
      +2
      Krupnov recently breeds a specific panic))))))) I personally somehow wrote to him. I was interested in breakthrough technologies in construction, about which he wrote. I asked him to turn to Kama for breakthrough technologies. He wrote that he has many friends in this industry. As a result, I got the answer, google))))))))))))))))))) in nete everything is))))))))))) That's so gentlemen.
    2. urzul
      urzul 12 September 2012 15: 06
      +1
      Then we see how China with its Advanced Regional Jet (ARJ21) has failed all markets.
      In November 2010 during static testing, the ARJ21 wing unexpectedly collapsed. This led to a change in the test program and the postponement of the expected delivery time.
      1. sazhka0
        sazhka0 12 September 2012 15: 22
        +1
        As a compliment. "You" forgot "to shout" Hurray .. and Slava VGK RESPECT.
        Have you lost your orientation?
        1. urzul
          urzul 12 September 2012 15: 47
          +1
          Again rave?
    3. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 12 September 2012 15: 10
      +3
      Quote: Varnaga
      Admins would be ashamed to hang out such zero absolutely engaged footcloths.

      There are different opinions and they have the right to be.
      1. Varnaga
        Varnaga 12 September 2012 15: 14
        +2
        And let's post opinions from the express newspaper? Or military secrets? Maybe a real chthonic TV-3 will help us? I repeat once again, this "opinion" is nothing more than a collection of absolutely unreasoned vyser.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 12 September 2012 15: 42
          +1
          Quote: Varnaga
          I repeat once again, this "opinion" is nothing more than a collection of absolutely unreasoned vyser.

          Well, justify your position on issues in which you think that the author is mistaken. I do not see more than one counterargument from you, but I would like to.
        2. MI-AS-72
          MI-AS-72 12 September 2012 22: 19
          +2
          judging by your comments, your vyser is argumenitized, then maybe tell me here why Poghosyan asks for money in the budget to bring the super-duper to a competitive state, who was wrong with the wing size (passenger capacity), tell me why people ran from the UAC, I mean specialists, and not bargaining and PR managers. You can shit with diarrhea all day, we are in courses about what is happening and about the level of salaries in factories imprisoned for super duper and about reducing them well, come on "monkey from Claudia" sing us a song about super duper and wise Ka on the letter Mu by the name of Poghosyan. Let's just not crap yourself, it's a pity that our entire aviation industry collapsed along with the SD, it was considered a breakthrough in the plans of the EP and the Medvedputs, but it turned out as always. You choose the tone for you, you allow yourself to be rude to me, too, it's not ashamed, I, unlike you, on the aviation-industrial floors not only walk, but work there.
          1. VAF
            VAF 12 September 2012 23: 27
            +4
            Quote: MI-AS-72
            judging by your comments, your vyser is argunized, then maybe tell me here why Poghosyan asks for money in the budget to bring the super-duper to a competitive state, who made a mistake with the wing dimension (passenger capacity), tell me why the people fled from the KLA, I mean specialists, not bargaining and PR managers.


            ++++++++++++++++ !!!!!! good
    4.  pistons
      pistons 12 September 2012 15: 14
      +2
      But what is he very selling?
      Give statistics for 2012 pliz ..
      Particularly very interested in his breakthrough on the world market ..

      How many of them per mound sold this year.?
      1. urzul
        urzul 12 September 2012 15: 42
        -1
        Have you heard anything about the supply line?
        For Mexico, the first-born took off.
        For Laos, while collecting the first of the party.
        For Indonesia to be painted.
        While in line for receiving Aeroflot stands
        1.  pistons
          pistons 12 September 2012 16: 12
          +2
          So, how much ?

          Right not one at the moment.

          and as usual the delivery schedule is disrupted
          promised in 2012, first 28, then 20 boards
          while we have 7.

          What's wrong again?
          1. urzul
            urzul 12 September 2012 16: 20
            0
            The postponement was once, at the moment 10 is already, your data is outdated.
            I painted a little more detailed, we will not be dubbed
          2. bddrus
            bddrus 12 September 2012 19: 41
            -2
            are you adequate with the brightest prospects you see how much to sell abroad? where few people want to let us go, and it’s not just that we can make an airplane and the people directly tumbled it down. The image of the product also depends on the image of the country - and judging by this article, all scribblers are focused on mixing Russia with dirt.
      2. nycsson
        nycsson 12 September 2012 16: 31
        +2
        Quote: pistons
        Particularly very interested in his breakthrough on the world market ..

        Yes, I beg you! On my own to break through, all the Boeing second-hand overwhelmed .......
    5. VAF
      VAF 12 September 2012 15: 44
      +6
      Quote: Varnaga
      "expert" is annealing with hellish idiocy, only now, EMNIP, the order book for SSJ is 170 aircraft.


      Well, who told you such nonsense ?????

      Name at least one real customer who ordered at least one aircraft ???
      1. nycsson
        nycsson 12 September 2012 16: 30
        +1
        Quote: vaf
        Well, who told you such nonsense ?????

        Something I also hardly believe! If only to release it to your market. Which company will purchase unverified goods? Now they prefer not to take risks.
        Well, I’m generally not talking about foreign countries, try there to put your nose in the wrong place, there are all sorts of lobbies, etc. As an example, India bought Apache instead of ours and refused from fighter jets, but what is their reputation .......
        I think that a government support program is needed, interest-free loans for the purchase, etc. To launch it in operation and he showed his reliability.
        Nobody wants to take a cat in a bag .......
        1. Varnaga
          Varnaga 12 September 2012 18: 31
          0
      2. Varnaga
        Varnaga 12 September 2012 18: 28
        0
        Well, who told you such nonsense ?????

        Only Poghosyan, but for you he is not an authority, I know, therefore:
        1. Aleks28
          Aleks28 12 September 2012 18: 35
          +1
          The trouble is that the numbers are at odds with the case, contracts have been found, and the planes are bye-bye.
          1. Varnaga
            Varnaga 12 September 2012 18: 49
            -1
            Do you know what serial production is and what criteria is it planned for? I note that now is not the USSR and the market conditions, its dynamism in different directions is very great.
            1. Aleks28
              Aleks28 12 September 2012 19: 28
              +1
              Yes, I know what a market is, I live in Germany, here, for the failure of supplies, such dibs are tearing uuu.
            2. MI-AS-72
              MI-AS-72 12 September 2012 22: 04
              +1
              You at least understand something. what are you writing? For some reason, the world aviation market collapsed on the Super Duper. Crap do not write "uncle and pogoyansky shit."
        2. Varnaga
          Varnaga 12 September 2012 18: 42
          0
          Here's the refusal, for objectivity
        3. VAF
          VAF 12 September 2012 23: 32
          +2
          Quote: Varnaga
          so:


          These are all ..... agreements of intent ... do you know where to go with them?

          Correctly think (preflight ... there too! While they have imposed on the Mexicans. Yes a small Lao company ... everything .....! And end up with ... advertising signs of the UAC .... not seriously ... at all!
          1. Varnaga
            Varnaga 13 September 2012 06: 46
            0
            These are all ..... agreements of intent ... do you know where to go with them?

            Of course I know, I will just print and grab your messages, because they are very serious, the main thing is not to forget more dots and exclamation marks, so, purely for the authority of the "expert".
            Let me remind you of some points:
            1. The crumbling engine AN-148
            There were such conversations, but so far only conversations. After all, they have the same thing ... there are lobbyists and lovers of the West, but on the other hand, why not?

            Indeed, why not SSJ use a foreign engine, while developing partly its own?
            2.
            Name at least one real customer who ordered at least one aircraft ???

            I brought you real customers, is there at least one? Or did I imagine? By the way, he brought those who refused because of the termination of their existence.
            While imposed on the Mexicans. Yes, a small Lao company ... all .....!

            About Sky Aviation why modestly silent? probably for more objectivity.
            3. What do we have with interesting pictures about foreign nodes and systems that are used on SSJ? What is their applicability on foreign counterparts? Brazilian and Chinese comrades are especially interesting to me.
            4. About the "foreign" SSJ was also discussed, on the table in which the share of imports was indicated again I heard another blabla, nothing specific, well, as usual.
  8. Igarr
    Igarr 12 September 2012 14: 42
    +4
    What does the author suggest?
    I didn’t understand.
    ".. The country's leadership has the last chance to make 2012 1939, not 1937."
    Come on, don't make fantastic breakthroughs ... through time.
    First let it be 1937year.
    And then, as expected - there will be 1939.
    And everything will fall into place.
    No fiction.
  9. aksakal
    aksakal 12 September 2012 14: 48
    -1
    The article is bold, the fattest is just a minus !!!!!
    I don’t respect Krupnova - some amateur creature is actively spinning around aviation journalism, appears in Gordon’s programs on space topics, drives there utter nonsense about the exploration of Mars, Venus and aliens that are already nearby, and sprinkles the attack of the article, giving away the strongest smell of rotten order from people "which cannot be named, otherwise they will immediately become a target!" -)))))))) What does the author of Superjet and MS-21 not like? Only because they are still selling poorly? So who is waiting for the new ones on the divided market? It is clear that at first the products will be difficult to advance. Here you need elbows, but harder. And political support is mandatory. And at the center of aircraft certification - the main tool for suppressing competitors from Boeing and Airbus, push their people at the political level. Russia is an aviation power and therefore has the right to its representatives in this organization. Work there is a sea in addition to bringing to mind the Superjet and MS-21. And here is such nonsense, full and rotten! I read as if I accidentally ate a spoonful of guano -ugh !!!!. Editor, at least a little article can be selected better? The aviation policy of the authorities deserves criticism, but constructive criticism from professionals, and this is not criticism. Let readers judge what it is ....
    1. nycsson
      nycsson 12 September 2012 16: 25
      +1
      Quote: aksakal
      Only because they are still selling poorly? So who is waiting for the new ones on the divided market?

      In the divided Russian market? And what prevents them from making this aircraft a priority in the domestic market? Let them support ........
      1. bddrus
        bddrus 12 September 2012 19: 45
        +1
        Well, because I understand why Aeroflot also buys - I think they told him what to take. Those companies where the state has a share should take our minimum 70%
    2. MI-AS-72
      MI-AS-72 12 September 2012 20: 47
      +3
      And you have a fat MINUS, as it may like, then what is not. Russia was not an aviation power, so for 20 years NOT a single Russian (or USSR) aircraft has been created, not a single Russian engine, so eat yourself.
  10. Grenader
    Grenader 12 September 2012 14: 52
    +12
    The Soviet Union sold 45% of all aircraft in the world market; modern Russia cannot provide even domestic needs. If the aviation industry is not supported, then we will no longer see our civilian aircraft.
  11. Sasha 19871987
    Sasha 19871987 12 September 2012 14: 53
    0
    this is true or not great, but it sounded not very, incomprehensible, double attitude to the article ...
    1. Igarr
      Igarr 12 September 2012 15: 52
      +2
      In the thread about the fleet construction program, Urzul painted well both the superjet and the TU-204.
      You can read there.
      But not here - to get scared.
  12. Alexsanderr
    Alexsanderr 12 September 2012 14: 57
    +2
    http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/18323/ Воронежский авиазавод работает!
    1. FID
      FID 12 September 2012 15: 39
      +3
      Right Recently I was there. Saw.
  13. Sphere
    Sphere 12 September 2012 14: 58
    +1
    Poghosyan to the wall of the freak .......
  14. sazhka0
    sazhka0 12 September 2012 15: 09
    +4
    I don't even want to write .. Moderators ugh on you and "esaul" personally
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 12 September 2012 17: 27
      +3
      Quote: sazhka0
      Moderators ugh on you and "esaul" personally


      ?????
      1. urzul
        urzul 12 September 2012 17: 30
        +3
        He is no longer able to answer, he says that he is not drunk, so it’s high.
        1. spender
          spender 12 September 2012 17: 34
          +2
          Quote: urzul
          He says that he’s not drunk, so it’s high.

          Andrei, the emotions of a person were overwhelmed, and you blame him for what, you practically "sewed" an article from the Criminal Code of Russia, you seemed to be neutral-legal ... hi
      2. spender
        spender 12 September 2012 17: 31
        +3
        Quote: Vadivak
        ?????

        Vadim, why be surprised, then? Many members of the forum do not know either you or the Joker as moderators, but by the "promoted" esaulu and Varnaga they judge the whole "modern tribe" laughing
        They criticize criticism with rudeness and insult, for GDP and DAM they are ready to cut the throat, and the layman has the opinion hi
        1. urzul
          urzul 12 September 2012 17: 37
          +3
          YES, no, Alexey, he’s really under something, I’ve talked to him in PM once;)))
          1. spender
            spender 12 September 2012 17: 41
            +1
            Quote: urzul
            it’s really under something, I’ve already talked to him in PM once;)))

            I don’t know, I’ve got Vinka getting into my mail, I delete letters without reading (not a masochist), you generally have more comments and comments have been erased, just blaming it somehow ... well, it’s not good hi
            1. urzul
              urzul 12 September 2012 17: 43
              +4
              I sent you a personal correspondence with him.
    2. nycsson
      nycsson 12 September 2012 20: 29
      +2
      Quote: sazhka0
      I don't even want to write .. Moderators ugh on you and "esaul" personally

      Yes, you do not comb all the moderators under one comb ........
  15. patsantre
    patsantre 12 September 2012 15: 10
    0
    The author of the article is an ordinary offended journalist whose fool is tearing a marvelous butthert, excuse me for slang. In each sentence, he tries to hurt and incriminate our entire aviation industry and its leaders. There is certainly some truth in it, I also don’t like it his UAC, And a light fighter of the 5th generation is also needed, I do not argue (or maybe he will appear?)
    But the rest is some kind of verbal diarrhea mixed with delirium. Why are the superjet and MC-21 so bad? Where is the argument? Maybe these are not the best airplanes in the world, but it's already good for us, because the superjet, as I understand it, is the first new civilian aircraft created in Russia.
    How does this journalist know how PAK FA will be sold there after 2020? Wang or what?
    Where does this nonsense about screwdriver assembly come from? And about the abolition of duties on the import of aviation products - also not really trusted.
    After reading about China's conquest of 95% of our aviation market, I was struck by a laugh.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 12 September 2012 15: 25
      +3
      Quote: patsantre
      Why is the superjet and MS-21 so bad? Where is the argument? Maybe these are not the best airplanes in the world, but for us it’s already not bad, because the superjet, as I understand it, is the first new civilian aircraft created in Russia

      Have you seen the first 21? How many planes were produced and how much we need, who and when will do them, and the fact that the Boeing is all overwhelmed, but it is.
      1. patsantre
        patsantre 12 September 2012 15: 45
        0
        And? And here it is? Have you even read my post?
    2. nycsson
      nycsson 12 September 2012 16: 21
      +3
      Quote: patsantre
      Why is the superjet and MS-21 so bad? Where is the argument? Maybe these are not the best airplanes in the world, but it’s already good for us, because the superjet, as I understand it, is the first new civilian aircraft created in Russia.

      Operation will show all the advantages and disadvantages. If it comes to this .....
    3. MI-AS-72
      MI-AS-72 12 September 2012 20: 42
      +2
      Well, in order to answer your questions, you don’t have much brains, just read about the auto industry, about machine tool building about science and education, go to the air forum, there are a lot of interesting things, and most importantly, look at the airplanes at the airports, at the rocket fall in Roscosmos, (and the aviation industry and cosmonautics are very interconnected on many technical and scientific issues), read about the WTO about duties, about China do not believe it, in vain by 2020, it may very well be PAK FA by 2020, it is unlikely to be sold by this time it will become obsolete, except in countries of the 3rd world .. Well, like Cameroon, Ethiopia, and then on condition that we create it. Only one thing is beyond doubt that if we really object to the aviation industry, we will be asked from the WTO, the condition for our entry was precisely the core of the domestic competitive aviation industry.
  16. s1н7т
    s1н7т 12 September 2012 15: 15
    +9
    For the "patriots" I found the EP manifesto: in 2004, every resident of Russia will pay for utilities 2 times less. than now; in 2005 every citizen of Russia will receive his share of the use of Russia's natural resources; by 2008, each family will have their own comfortable housing, worthy of the third millennium; by 2008 Chechnya and the entire North Caucasus will become the resort "Mecca" of Russia; by 2010, the transport highway St. Petersburg - Anadyr, Tokyo - Vladivostok - Brest and others will be built; by 2017 Russia will be the leader of world politics and economy ...

    Gee! It remains some 5 years to complete prosperity! laughing
    Right now, I’ll just look for reports on what has been achieved. laughing laughing laughing
    1. nycsson
      nycsson 12 September 2012 16: 18
      +2
      Quote: c1n7
      Gee! Some 5 years left until complete prosperity! laughing
      Right now, here are just reports of what I’ve looked for laughing

      laughing laughing laughing Give a link to this manifest, read ......... wassat
      1. s1н7т
        s1н7т 12 September 2012 22: 16
        +1
        Unfortunately no link. The text is saved as an image.
  17. sazhka0
    sazhka0 12 September 2012 15: 15
    +2
    Quote: patsantre
    But the rest is some kind of verbal diarrhea mixed with delirium. Why are the superjet and the MC-21 so bad? Where is the argument

    Have you seen them? Except in words.? And where are the "products"?
    1. patsantre
      patsantre 12 September 2012 15: 54
      +2
      And the author saw them to water shit?
    2. aksakal
      aksakal 12 September 2012 16: 29
      +3
      Quote: sazhka0
      Have you seen them? Except in words.? And where are the "products"?

      - Do you have an idea that the development of an aircraft is not a matter of 5 minutes? Or sneezed for you - here he appeared, with a needle and immediately healthy, without childhood diseases? There will be an MS-21 wholesale copy by the year 2015 at best, and we'll see what kind of bird it is. And watering a chick that has not yet been born or hatched with guan is not a sign of professionalism and intelligence, but absolutely the opposite. Mlyn, liberoids have swooped in, we have nominated, we love Temka "fucking upsepolymers"! Okay, about ... well, next what? Has it become easier?
      1. FID
        FID 12 September 2012 16: 35
        +3
        aksakal,
        It’s not easier. You are right, the development of the aircraft is a long business. But it looks like we are losing with the MS-21. Not earlier than 2017 he will rise. And it's late.
  18. ism_ek
    ism_ek 12 September 2012 15: 28
    0
    Airbuses and Boeing are not competitors of the Superjet. Superjet is a plane for local airlines of low traffic, it is a replacement for the Tu-134. Its competitors are Bombardier, ATR and Embraer. Our airlines do not fly at such distances. Small airlines do not receive subsidies from the government for the development of inter-regional airlines. Airport fees are only for large flights.
    We need specialized airlines working with Superjet, like Red Wings
    Embraer - even developed outside of Brazil and nothing, it normally pushes the economy of Brazil. Hooray patriots - stop scolding the Superjet!
  19. Andrei.B
    Andrei.B 12 September 2012 16: 06
    0
    recently in comments about Stalin said .... article
    The Medvedev government acts in the interests of the oligarchs http://topwar.ru/18563-pravitelstvo-medvedeva-deystvuet-v-interesah-oligarhov.ht
    ml # comment-id-571519
    ... and again Dimon and his friends are not up to the mark ... apparently the ruler of the people was transferred to Russia! ??
  20. Magadan
    Magadan 12 September 2012 16: 24
    +6
    I no longer understand where the traitors are, and where the cunning moves of the true patriots. Felled aircraft industry or restore? We will judge by the results. The results are a minimum of 80% of Russian aircraft in the Russian sky after 5 years. There will be no result, we will avenge the freaks. to-ry at the head of the aviation industry. Or their children, if the freaks suddenly die. Not tolerant? By itself! And we are not for tolerance, we are for a specific result.
    1. Brother Sarych
      Brother Sarych 12 September 2012 16: 54
      +1
      It will be too late to take revenge ...
    2. MI-AS-72
      MI-AS-72 12 September 2012 20: 30
      +3
      I am afraid that with such an outcome, there will be no one to take revenge, they will be a government in "exile", somewhere in the Landon, and we will be in the forests and basements in partisan detachments and underground cells, with machine guns and rifles to prove that Russia is not surrendering.
    3. s1н7т
      s1н7т 12 September 2012 23: 27
      0
      For 5 years - 80% ?! How many pieces a year do you need? And how much can? Yes, and what to release - one SSJ at all?))) Or is it that you are so ironic?
  21. anfreezer
    anfreezer 12 September 2012 16: 47
    +4
    Let us recall on the topic how in the spring of 2011, Medvedev publicly expressed his “opinion” that Russian planes have a number of technical flaws. Immediately recall the reaction of Iran. They immediately refused to buy Tu-204 aircraft. And the story of the Tu-334.
    The aircraft is able to land on any airfield in the Russian Federation, even unpaved. Tu-334 is the only one capable of landing when all engines fail. And, importantly, the aircraft almost 100% consists of components of domestic production and is equipped with all necessary communications and emergency warning systems.
    In 2007, 5 gliders were assembled on special order, but suddenly production was stopped and almost closed. Preference was unexpectedly given to the Sukhoi Superjet 100 project. Interestingly, the total cost of the Tu-334 development until 1999 (first flight) amounted to just over $ 100 million. And, of course, there is one important trifle in all of this: a strange and sudden miracle replacement government orders coincided with the appointment of Poghosyan to the post of head of the UAC. Compare: Tu204 \ MS21: passenger capacity-210 \ 1
    50; cruising-the same; flight range-6500 \ 5000; unit cost in millions of dollars-40 \ 70, but ... the beginning of operation-1995 \ and reintegration 2016. The same story with the Tu-334 \ SuperPuper: passenger capacity-102 (13
    8) \ 78 (100); range 4100 \ 3000; cruising is almost the same; fuel consumption is 2000 \ 1800, however, according to the data of the Transport Clearing House of Russia, the average hourly fuel consumption of the Pupers last year was 2296 kg (the same An-148- 1968 kg); Well ..... the beginning of operation 1999 \ 2010 So, think for yourself who ruins, and how ruins ....
    1. nycsson
      nycsson 12 September 2012 17: 17
      +1
      Quote: anfreezer
      Let us recall on the topic how in the spring of 2011, Medvedev publicly expressed his “opinion” that Russian planes have a number of technical flaws. Immediately recall the reaction of Iran. They immediately refused to buy Tu-204 aircraft. And the story of the Tu-334.

      Yeah! And who do they work for? request
      1. urzul
        urzul 12 September 2012 17: 27
        +1
        Bulk handsome !!! One of the few sane people in Russia !!! It is a pity that there are few of these in our country !!!

        Remember your words?
        1. nycsson
          nycsson 12 September 2012 20: 22
          +1
          Quote: urzul
          Remember your words?

          Maybe! At first I supported him, I do not deny it. When all this nonsense with a cut went! Well, I thought he was doing great, he was fighting for the truth, etc., he wanted to get everyone out into the open, publishes articles who stole how much, but then, when he got in touch with this Nemtsov and Sobchak and everyone else, I realized that this is not our man.
          You probably did not expect such an answer from me? I never give up my words, although I honestly don’t remember the ones you cited. The fact that I supported him is true!
    2. s1н7т
      s1н7т 12 September 2012 23: 23
      0
      Hmm, the numbers are impressive - 95 against 2016! And the cost ... In short, pipets aviation industry!
  22. Patriot
    Patriot 12 September 2012 16: 56
    +2
    Mdaaa. And, this is all against the backdrop of repeated statements by the Kremlin ghouls about supporting the Russian aircraft industry. It's good that at least sometimes someone tries to call a spade a spade. And, when our aircraft factory has not received orders for ILs for many years, and in the meantime, our authorities are lobbying for the supply of Boeing and air buses,

    THIS IS CALLED THE ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE!


    By the way, there is no sense in breaking the power on the government of Putin or Medvedev. THIS IS ONE AND ALSO RULE! Here is just one thing - the theatrical theatrical one is subordinate to the other - the real Putin one. AND JUDGING BY THE PURPOSE OF THE GOAL, THEY HAVE ONE. BREAK AND DESTROY!
  23. Vitmir
    Vitmir 12 September 2012 16: 59
    +2
    After the crash in Indonesia, the SSJ - which is screwed up in Russia from imported components - is needed by no one in the world. Customers even from the CIS refuse it.
    Even Belarus is ours, for what the alliance-rassoyuznik, and then buys Boeing, CRJ and Embryers 175. Just today, the first showed.
    http://news.tut.by/society/310150.html
    But Krupnov’s article doesn’t matter - minus for juggling.
  24. Dub4ik
    Dub4ik 12 September 2012 17: 18
    +3
    and there will be no promising 5th generation light fighter that could produce MIG, since the MIG is practically destroyed by Sukhoi Poghosyan through the UAC Poghosyan, hmm ... this is sadness, but I don’t understand what again? the Su already has a T-50, this is not the story with the Su-33 and MiG-29K, when there was a dispute over the deck recourse
  25. gorkoxnumx
    gorkoxnumx 12 September 2012 19: 06
    +2
    Mistral, IVECO, Superjet "ssj100". They PUTIN and MEDVEDEV with their accomplices United Russia will soon destroy everything that was built with such difficulty by the great scientists who, for years, did not sleep enough to create technologies that were developed in the USSR and then the inferiority from the filing of the drunk YELTSIN went to the west and now we get these technologies 20 years later.
  26. Yasen Ping
    Yasen Ping 12 September 2012 19: 21
    -2
    I have not read you, the computer hangs, well, you still have to fight the brave guys ((
  27. andrei332809
    andrei332809 12 September 2012 19: 28
    +2
    I flew on a Boeing777 and on an IL-96 for 6,5 hours in one storona. The only thing in the Boeing was there was a TV (they showed "the irony of fate"), and there was more space in the silt, it was more convenient in it.
    I don’t know, can airlines ban the use of foreign equipment on domestic routes for 10 years?
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 12 September 2012 21: 14
      +1
      The government can, but why do they need it, they get bribes for it (which amounts to treason against the Motherland - Article 275 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation) ...
      1. andrei332809
        andrei332809 12 September 2012 22: 01
        +1
        So, air carriers are not buying new products, but used ones with already extended resources. In my opinion, the possibility of an accident from this only increases. or much more kickbacks from foreigners?
  28. PSih2097
    PSih2097 12 September 2012 19: 46
    +1
    Authors, performers and customers - in the studio! And to the wall.

    This is true, and so with all ... With the deputies - he didn’t promise - to the wall (with the complete confiscation of all movable and immovable, as well as all the funds in the accounts), the government and the president did not do what they promised - to the wall at least the following will know what will happen to them if they do not fulfill their promises, otherwise "Our tsar is kind and sympathetic, but the boyars do not know what they are doing."...
  29. darkman70
    darkman70 12 September 2012 20: 04
    -1
    Cases in the aviation industry are of course unimportant, but the article is biased and, most importantly, amateurish. In the style of cured polymers. Put a minus.
  30. MI-AS-72
    MI-AS-72 12 September 2012 20: 23
    +3
    No, the article was written just by a person who understands the aviation industry, I won’t judge about the personalities mentioned in the text, but the fact that the situation is fig is a fact, in the concept of development until 2015 (it is Google to help on the internet), there is a lot interesting points about IL-96-300, about TU-204/214, which should be competitive on this document in world markets, and the conclusions indicate that by 2015, the Russian Federation should show the aviation world that we have returned to the ranks of leaders in this industry . And of course, I would really like to know the true reasons why this did not happen and where did it go, the money that was allocated for this concept. And now again, according to the principle of chatter, money, the output is zero, and everyone is fine, thanks to the GDP, DAM and EDR for this.
  31. genad2
    genad2 12 September 2012 20: 46
    +1
    We write, we write, and they are deeply into everything ... There is simply no one to poke behind a shkviren and a nose.
  32. bairat
    bairat 12 September 2012 21: 17
    +1
    I'll tell you how things are going in the Kazan aviation industry (according to a friend). It has become fashionable now to "raise" enterprises by teams of "effective managers". They decided to make KAMAZ the incubator of these teams for the flagships of the aircraft industry, KAPO and KMPO ... People, to put it mildly, are not entirely in the subject. The President ordered the KMPO to master engines for the Tu-160, the managers answered yes, and it is not clear who will make them.
    The other day, the rector of KAI quit according to his age, this is the oldest university in the country, and a KAMAZ man climbed in with quiet glanders, while the acting
    1. andrei332809
      andrei332809 12 September 2012 22: 21
      +1
      the customer told the story.
      in what year, did not say, but it was in le bourget at the air show. our plane drove (he did not say which one), and the fuel filler neck is old. all western companies have already switched to new necks, and ours has an old one. The French frowned at their turnips and said: "We have one tanker under the old necks somewhere in the distance. Now we will chase the towing vehicle (or whatever the truck is called by name) and will transport you to it." ours: "no need" and the plane ran tail-first to look for a suitable tanker. the French later said that it was easier for the Russians to invent a reverse for an airplane than to put a new neck
  33. Botanologist
    Botanologist 12 September 2012 22: 41
    0
    Article minus. A set of snot, pathetic exclamations on the topic "until," There is no analysis, all the facts are distorted.

    Now IMHO at the expense of the dry, Russian aircraft industry, etc. Arguments like "our plane must be 100% of our components is a utopia. It’s not the time now, and the wrong planes. And the country, no matter how insulting, is not the same. Recovery takes time, patience and work.

    If we go about the leavened patriots, who are a dime a dozen, and force them to sculpt planes from domestic sets - we will be left without an aircraft industry in 5-6 years. Because the world is moving forward, and no one will wait for us. The illusion that Tu or An will directly rush to buy is nonsense.
    Therefore, now we are doing what we can do no worse than others, and we are gradually replacing imports with our best practices. But this is better than letting a snot on %%%% not ours in the liner. Do something, damn it.

    The "prohibit imports" argument is generally sabotage. Prohibit the import of foreign cars - what do you think Zhiguli will become Mercedes? Hera with two, as Sanya Borodach said. So it is with planes. In general, the industry will stop developing. So we will fly on the "maize", which Shoigu is going to build. Do you want so? Me not.
    Good intentions paved the road you know where.
    1. MI-AS-72
      MI-AS-72 13 September 2012 06: 10
      +1
      The question was not about import or about NOT cooperation in the field of technology, the question was raised on the topic of why it was necessary to destroy, YAK, IL, TU (KB I mean) in order to spend a lot of money at the exit to get a fact. Yes, the USA does not shy away from other people's ideas and technologies, but Boeing flies and nothing has changed for 10 years, regardless of the crisis and the state of the economy. The monkeys came to power and destroyed everything even the most advanced to zero (remember their slogan we are not Bolsheviks, we will not start with "we will destroy the whole world of violence to the ground and then we are our new") and did even worse, they even created a great aviation But these, so that we take on the cynicism of the authorities, they give out failures, while not blushing at the same time.I don't see Russia's enemies here, it's just that everyone evaluates the situation differently, some know it from the inside, others know it from the glossy covers, but both want to live in a successful country and somewhere at the airport (our Moscow airports are, by the way, one of the best in the world, we can) of Barcelona see our Tu or Yak and be proud of the country, and with SD or MS-21 this will not happen, you cannot create something on the bones then worthwhile fail.
  34. Tamerlan225
    Tamerlan225 12 September 2012 23: 37
    +1
    In Yarosl. Region there is a city of Rybinsk It is called So there is a Saturn Plant called so they collect engines there for EUROPE AND USA ... WHEN WE ENTERED THE CORRIDOR SO THERE IS AN WHOLE WALL WITH LITERATURE AND AWARDS DIFFERENT ... THIS MEANS THAT WE ARE WHAT FOR AND PRODUCTIVE
  35. suharev-52
    suharev-52 13 September 2012 02: 09
    +4
    I know about Saturn. It happened. I live not far away. About the article. No matter how the pioneers frolic, pouring mud on the author, I will tell you my opinion. The article is true. Even some of the most striking examples of the deliberate destruction of the aviation industry are not given. Here are some examples for you: 1. A unique aircraft engine - NK-93 - did not pass certification tests (western engines didn’t lie nearby for noise, fuel economy) So our poor state didn’t have $ 1 million for certification, or rather its completion. Who was the Minister of Industry and Trade, remember?
    2. Prepare for disposal 5 prototypes of a unique aircraft - an amphibian capable of landing on any flat surface (due to an air cushion, which was done for the first time in the world). For completion, internal filling is necessary. The price of the issue is $ 5 million. He does not need a hard coating, which is so important for our mother Russia. The Ministry of Defense, the GRU, the FSB showed interest, but they don’t give money for fine-tuning, they ask for a finished plane. They want to dispose of it, because they need a place for the production of the Yak-130.
    Still need some evidence? Sincerely.
  36. I-16M
    I-16M 13 September 2012 05: 38
    +1
    Only a blind man does not see the consistent, targeted destruction of domestic aviation. Both military and civilian.
  37. Patriot
    Patriot 13 September 2012 13: 52
    +1
    Quote: I-16M
    I-16M
    Only a blind man does not see the consistent, targeted destruction of domestic aviation. Both military and civilian.


    I WILL TELL MORE!
    AND, ONLY THE BLIND DOES NOT SEE THE PLANNED DETERMINED DESTRUCTION OF RUSSIA AND ALL RUSSIAN INDUSTRIES - INDUSTRY, AGRICULTURE, ARMY, EDUCATION, SCIENCE, HEALTH. AND ALSO SUBSTITUTE VALUES, GROWING AND DEVELOPMENT OF THE POPULATION OF RUSSIA!

    O LORD, MUCH SAME Dumb, ZOMBED BLINDS LIVES IN OUR COUNTRY (which is at least 63,7% of those who have voted for the presidency), WHICH NEXT TIME SUPPORTED THE DESTRUCTURING GANG HEADED BY Putin. IT IS INTERESTING WHEN THEY ARE MATURE AND WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN FOR THIS? BECAUSE Putin's BAND SELLS RUSSIA AND ITS INTERESTS EVERY DAY!

    And, MAYBE OUR PEOPLE SO SO stupid, stupid, and blind, that another real people's ruler is simply not worthy?
  38. Patriot
    Patriot 13 September 2012 17: 50
    0
    Just look at this half-silly arrogant face of Dima - Mendel-iPhone ...!
  39. Konrad
    Konrad 17 September 2012 22: 32
    +1
    "In the mind, today everything will have to be done as if from scratch, collecting and attracting really the best designers, growing new design schools, gathering our most talented youth in these schools around our distinguished and dear old people who still remember how to make airplanes - consolidating everything creative forces to create a new Russian aviation. " - These are all slogans and idle chatter. I would like to add - Hurray COMRADES! The horse understands what is needed, but no matter how much you say "halva halva!" - it will not become sweeter in your mouth.