Citizens and weapons: How power disarmed the people from 1917 to 2012

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Citizens and weapons: How power disarmed the people from 1917 to 2012

Few remember that before the 1917 revolution weapon sold freely in hunting stores. Mauzers, Nagans, Browings, Smith-Wessons, and here are the Parabellums. Ladies' models that fit in the women's handbag. "Velodogi" - revolvers for cyclists, for effective protection against dogs.
Without special troubles, it was possible to buy even the Maxim machine-gun of Tula production ...

Let us open, for example, the Easter issue of Spark magazine, 1914 year. Peaceful pre-war spring. We read advertising.



Along with the advertisement of the “wonderful eau de cologne of Dralle”, the “Ferrotype” photographic cameras and the “Anuzol” hemorrhoids - an advertisement for revolvers, pistols, and hunting rifles. And here is our old friend!

Browning sample xnumx g .:


The magazine is especially advertised EXACTLY Browning. In the classic book of A. Zhuk “Small arms” the number of this model is 31-6. Production: Belgium, model 1906, caliber 6.35 mm. The weight is only 350 grams, but has 6 cartridges.
And what ammo! Cartridges were created specifically for this model. Bullet shell, smokeless powder (3 times more powerful than smoke). Such a cartridge was more powerful than a revolver cartridge of the same caliber.

The 1906 Browning Model was very successful. The size of the gun was only 11.4 x 5.3 cm and it easily fit in the palm of your hand. What else was needed for a safe trip to the market? Market traders before the revolution were armed.

It is not surprising that the concept of "racketeering" was absent in those days ...

Browning could be carried covertly - it was even placed in a vest pocket and a ladies' travel bag. Due to the low weight and low recoil, women willingly bought it, and the name “ladies' gun” firmly stuck to it.

Browning has been a popular model among wide sections of Russian society for many years. Students, gymnasium students, female students, businessmen, diplomats, officers - even gardeners! - had it at hand.

Due to the low price, it was available even to schoolchildren, and teachers noted the “shoot because of unhappy love” among high school students and students. Small caliber pistols were also called “suicide weapons”.

Large-caliber pistols carried the head like a pumpkin, and after a shot at Browning’s head, the deceased looked good in a coffin, which was to lead to tears of remorse from an unfaithful traitor.

But Browning was not only dangerous for its owner.

It was an effective weapon of self-defense. A small-caliber shell bullet pierced a layer of muscles and stuck inside the body, completely giving it its energy. The level of medicine at the beginning of the twentieth century often prevented the rescue of a person affected in the internal organs.

Due to its compact size and its fighting qualities, the Browning 1906 model of the year was the most popular model. In total, more than 4 MILLION pieces were manufactured!

But how did they look at tsarist times at “exceeding the limits of necessary defense”? The term “necessary defense” itself first appeared in the decree of Paul I (which our citizens often represent almost half-crazy), and it meant not at all what we all got used to.
In the 18 century in Russia there was such a robbery - river piracy.

Gangs of vagrants attacked the river vessels sailing on the main rivers, and robbed them. Emperor Paul I adopted a decree on the rigorous deprivation of the nobility of all nobles, who were attacked on the rivers and did not offer armed resistance.

Then the nobles were, of course, with swords, and if they did not carry out the NECESSARY DEFENSE, they were deprived of this sword, as well as their estates, and titles ...

Thanks to this formulation of the question, in a very short time the robbers were killed or fled and the robbery on the rivers stopped. That is, the necessary defense - it was the NECESSITY for the armed man to DEFEND.

No "limits" existed. In Soviet times, this useful concept was distorted and, if it does, it is found only in the combination “EXCEEDING THE LIMITS of necessary defense”.

A criminal article was introduced for armed resistance to the robbers, and the weapon itself was taken from the population.

The Bolsheviks seized weapons from the population. For the complete "disarmament of the bourgeoisie", the Red Guard and Soviet militia teams worked a lot, conducting mass searches.

However, individual irresponsible "fists", as we see, were in no hurry to part with browning until the middle of the 30-s. And I understand them, beautiful and necessary thing ...

The pistol from the subject of everyday use since then turned into the USSR into a symbol of belonging to the security forces or the highest party elite. Caliber pistol was inversely proportional to the position in society. (The higher the official - the smaller the caliber of his gun.) ...

This Browning model was so popular that it gradually got out of circulation only with the creation of the Korovin pistol in 1926 year. Compared to Browning, his cartridge was strengthened and the barrel was slightly elongated, and the capacity of the magazine increased to 8 cartridges.

Interestingly, despite the small caliber, he enjoyed great success among the commanders of the Red Army.
And all that is left to the ordinary Russian man in the street, exhausted from street crime is looking at the pages of pre-revolutionary magazines with anguish.

«REVOLVER WITH 50 CARTRIDGES. ONLY 2 RUBLE. A safe and trustworthy weapon for self-defense, intimidation and alarm raising. It replaces expensive and dangerous revolvers. Strikingly hard beats. Needed by everyone. Permissions for this revolver are not required. 50 additional cartridges cost 75 kopecks, 100 pieces - 1 p. 40 cop., For sending by mail cash on delivery is calculated 35 cop., To Siberia - 55 cop. When ordering, the 3 pieces come with ONE REVOLVER for FREE. Address: Lodz, Slava O. Association

In fairness, it must be said that there were some restrictions on the circulation of firearms:
1. Highest approved by Nicholas II, the Opinion of the State Council of 10 June 1900, "On the prohibition of the manufacture and import from abroad of firearms of samples used in the troops"

2. The highest resolution of the emperor "On the sale and storage of firearms, as well as explosives and the device of shooting ranges." Accordingly, customs restrictions on the import and export of firearms of military samples were tightened.

There were also secret circulars of the tsarist government, ordering local authorities to withdraw weapons from disloyal subjects at their discretion and taking into account the current situation.

Here is what Professor I.I. Tarasov, Professor of the Imperial Moscow University, wrote about the right of ordinary citizens to acquire, store and use civilian weapons in the Sketch of the Science of Police Law:

“Despite the undoubted danger of careless, inept and malicious use of weapons, the prohibition to have weapons in no way can be the general rule, but only the exception that occurs when:

1. unrest, indignation or rebellion give a good reason to fear that the weapon will be used for dangerous criminal purposes;

2. the special situation or condition of those persons, for example, minors and minors, crazy, hostile or warring tribes, etc., which give rise to such fear;

3. the past facts of careless or malicious use of weapons, ascertained by a court or otherwise, indicated the expediency of taking away weapons from these persons. ”

It is safe to say that in the Russian state, the right to a weapon was the inalienable right of every law-abiding and mentally healthy citizen; naturally, it was subject to some time and local restrictions.
Over time, this right has changed, responding to the needs of the era.

In the XIX - early XX centuries. giving citizens the right to weapons, their acquisition, possession and use can be considered as a progressive phenomenon, since at that time such a right did not exist in all countries.

Legislation in the process of evolution has developed a fairly rigid procedure for storing, carrying and acquiring firearms by citizens. From the 17th century, the right to bear arms was granted only to certain categories of persons.

At the beginning of the 20th century, they were persons whose weapons were part of their uniform (for example, police or gendarmes), who needed them in self-defense. To some, the carrying of weapons was necessarily by virtue of custom, not prohibited by law; in order to hunt or play sports.

With the development of firearms legislation began to divide it into types: military - non-military samples; rifled - smooth-bore; guns - revolvers, etc.

Thus, from 1649 to 1914, the year in the Russian state formed a harmonious legislative system, avoiding the extremes of permissiveness, on the one hand, and the universal ban, on the other.

Freedom as a state of society exists as long as possession of a weapon is recognized in it as a natural right. Society ceases to be free when the natural right to own weapons is replaced by the privilege granted by the state.

Since the time of the Roman Empire, the main difference between a slave and a free citizen, along with political rights, was the right to bear and use weapons - from a dagger under a tunic to a rifle in a barn or a pistol in a holster.

Incredible, but the fact is - for almost all of its stories the inhabitants of Russia were almost all armed (as, incidentally, the inhabitants of neighboring Europe), up to the middle of the 20 century.

People without weapons easily became prey for brigands on major roads or nomads at the borders, as well as wild animals. All had weapons, right down to the serfs.

As long as liberal journalism proceeded with bile about “wild Asian” and “serf slaves,” the “slaves” owned hunting rifles and edged weapons. No licenses and permits were required.

They freely carried weapons where it was dictated by local customs not prohibited by law - for example, in the Caucasus or in the places where the Cossacks lived, but this mainly concerned cold bladed weapons.

By the way, not only the local "mountain eagles" wore weapons freely in the Caucasus - the Russians, who came to the Caucasus, were carrying weapons almost without fail, not only daggers, but also pistols.

Weapon culture in Russia was very peculiar. She had very significant differences in the regions, there were also differences between town and country.

In the European part of Russia, revolvers and pistols were considered “master weapons” and for rural farming absolutely useless. Long-barreled rifled weapons were armed with “risky people” - hunters, Siberian explorers and Cossacks, these passionaries of that time had a rifle or a carbine in each house.

Another thing gun - a thing useful in all respects. Without a rifle, the driver, especially in the postal service, did not go on the road. Kabatchik kept him under the counter, with cartridges loaded with coarse salt. The watchman, keeping the master's good, used it. Pistols armed traveling doctors.
The right to acquire, possess and bear weapons was practically unlimited.

In the 17-18 centuries, the first acts began to appear, establishing the categories of subjects that could wield a weapon, and the further, the more these categories became.

Somewhere from the 19 century, in some regions of the Empire, the acquisition system formally became permissive - the governor-general or the mayor issued mentally healthy and law-abiding residents permission to purchase "non-combat" types of firearms (except for hunting, his possession was free).

They, in the presence of "extraordinary circumstances" (unrest, riots, as well as the specific facts of careless or malicious use of weapons), could deprive a person of weapons or introduce a special procedure for selling them, but only for the time being of these circumstances.

But in practice, weapons permits were received by all who applied, since at that time, the state did not yet suspect in every student a Marxist and a People's Folk, and in every officer - a Decembrist.

For violation of the regime of carrying a weapon, the Code of Law of the Russian Empire established responsibility, but the same Code minimized the cases of its use.

In addition, in the villages and rural settlements, where most of the population then lived, there were no gendarmes and officials at all, and every peasant considered it his duty to keep the gun from the burglars behind the stove.

Such liberalism, by the way, spawned a very ambiguous practice of duels. For hot students, young poets, proud officers and other nobles, it was never a problem to solve the men's dispute with the power of arms.

The government did not like this practice, which led to the prohibition of duels and strict punishment for participating in them, but never to the restriction of the right to arms.

Well-known pre-revolutionary Russian lawyers (Koni, Andreevsky, Urusov, Plevako, Aleksandrov) drew attention to the fact that the citizens of the Russian Empire very often used handguns for self-defense, defending the right to life, health, family and property.

Needless to say, most of the lawyers educated in the spirit of European freedoms directly supported the right of Russian people to freedom of arms.

In the cities up to 1906, “Nagan” or “Browning” could be purchased completely freely at an affordable price in 16 - 20 rubles (minimum monthly salary).

More advanced "Parabellum" and "Mauser" have already cost more than 40 rubles. There were cheap samples, for 2-5 rubles, however, they did not differ in special quality.

After the first Russian revolution began the removal of firearms. Now only the person who submitted for this purpose the nominal certificate (similar to the modern license), given out by the chief of local police had the right to buy the gun.

During the 1906 year alone, tens of thousands of revolvers and pistols acquired by the public before the adoption of the new rules were seized (in one Rostov 1137 “barrels” were seized).

But this campaign also affected only powerful pistols (over 150 J of muzzle energy) and military samples. Military-style rifles and carbines, in indigenous Russia, were also seized, including from the “masters”, except for award and prize copies.

The “civilized public”, for hunting in the European part of Russia, was considered allowed as rifled single and double-barreled chokes or “tees”. Yes, and in the "outskirts of the Empire," people were still quite armed.

The exception was army officers and fleet, the ranks of the police and gendarmerie, border guards, as well as government bodies that had the right to acquire in personal ownership, for official needs, any small arms.

These "sovereigns" people could and were even obliged to use weapons for personal self-defense or the maintenance of public order and during off-duty hours. Upon retirement, these categories of civil servants retained the right to own weapons.

At the beginning of the century, when scientific and technological progress was gaining momentum, apartment buildings and hotels appeared in Russia in all respects modern, where there was hot water, elevators, telephones and refrigeration units.

Electricity covered not only apartments, rooms and entrances, but also the areas adjacent to new houses, where city trams briskly ran on electric power.

One type of personal self-defense weapon was a revolver with a hidden (half-hidden) trigger and a self-cocking trigger mechanism. The presence of the latter, as well as the compactness of such revolvers, made it possible to handle them with one hand. ”

Armless pistols allowed a potential victim to use such weapons without long preparations. The fragile frightened and confused lady could hit the attacker without even damaging her manicure. However, there were various kinds of hybrids, quite successful and in demand.

Anatoly Koni, Chief Prosecutor of the Criminal Cassation Department of the Governing Senate (highest prosecutor’s office), member of the State Council of the Russian Empire “On the right of necessary defense”:

“The feeling of self-preservation is inherent in man. It is inherent in him both as a morally rational being and as the highest creature of the animal kingdom. This feeling is embedded in nature by man so deeply that it almost never leaves him; a person strives for self-preservation on the one hand, instinctively, and on the other, conscious of his right to exist.

By virtue of the desire for self-preservation, the person tries to avoid danger and takes all measures to repel it; - he has a right to this and, moreover, a right that must be considered as inborn. Conscious of his right to exist, man protects this right from all alien encroachment, from all wrong. ”

The most reliable weapon nevertheless was a revolver, a misfire of one cartridge, did not lead to the withdrawal of a revolver from a combat state, because the next time the trigger was pressed, another cartridge was fed. And the drums of small-caliber “Velodog” type revolvers could hold up to 20 cartridges:

In addition to hunting rifles, for the purchase of which in Russia, before 1917, no one and no one ever needed permits, there were also pistols, which in essence were edgings of one and double-barreled hunting rifles, both the most simple and stylized as vintage or combat pistols.

This is a very formidable weapon (some samples are able to completely smash the attacker head), along with hunting rifles, was in demand from those who did not want to burden themselves with a hike to the police station or because of the specifics of the work passed it to, for example, The seller who handed over to another:

Almost all the coachmen and car owners under the seat lay such a gun or a cheaper, but no less effective domestic counterpart, an abundance of which provided all sorts of artels and partnerships that did not need advertising because of their cheapness.

And in addition to low prices, the State Imperial Tula Arms Plant (ITOZ) also provided high quality thanks to constant research and testing.

But guns camouflaged as a cane and pistols (some models also required no permits at all) could always be in hand and ready for use. To catch a host of such weapons unawares is very difficult even for an experienced robber:

In the pragmatic Russian peasantry, as a rule, domestic hunting rifles enjoyed the greatest demand, and besides the always-needed practical benefits, they also provided an excellent guarantee against any encroachment from the uninvited guests.

The price-quality ratio put the famous State Imperial Tula Arms Plant out of competition, on the free Russian market of civilian weapons. These are the "economy class", but of excellent quality and reliability of the gun, offered even expensive capital gun salons:


(ITOZ) The Imperial Tula Arms Plant offered more expensive, but not less reliable and affordable rifles. What man or teenager would not like to receive as a gift such an excellent and beautiful domestic gun ?:

And so began the state control over the quality of products, in particular weapons, which was kept at the highest level until the 1917 year:

It can be said with confidence that the traditionally high quality of Russian weapons and the strictest responsibility for the state stigma were laid by the Russian tsars.

By the way, lovers of pony and moan about constantly offended unarmed and defenseless peasants and lie to the landowners, capitalists, other "malicious exploiters" and officials about the patronage of the Russian tsars, I advise you to pay attention to the punishment of these groups of people, and how the punishment was reduced according to with lowering the rank of a responsible person and vice versa ...

I also want to draw attention to the fact that almost all serious trading establishments provided buyers with installment payments, if they had a guarantee (letter of guarantee, income certificate) of military commanders for military personnel or an employer for civilians.

Naturally, with the advent of 1917, the beginning of mass desertion from the front, the weakening of the government, control over the arming of citizens decreased significantly. In addition, the soldiers leaving the hateful war often returned home with rifles and pistols, and even with some heavy things.

Thus, the total armament of Russians during the Civil War contributed not only to the bloodshed, but also to the self-defense of the people of Russia from numerous gangs, as well as, for example, the expulsion of the invaders and the wider partisan war against Kolchak in Siberia without any Red Army.

An interesting moment - after the October Revolution, the Bolsheviks were able to immediately gain a foothold only in the central provinces of Russia, whose population was armed less than in the Caucasian and Cossack margins.

The harsh actions of the conscripts did not encounter any resistance only in central Russia, but of them people were most willing to go into the Red Army — the weapon returned a sense of freedom.

Having seized power, the Bolsheviks tried to limit the right to own weapons by imposing a corresponding ban in the Criminal Code. However, the RSFSR Criminal Code 1926 of the year contained a completely ridiculous sanction at the time - half a year of correctional labor or a fine of up to one thousand rubles with confiscation of weapons.
In 1935, imprisonment was established until 5 years, when the situation in the world became more complicated, and in the country various terrorists were operating, the “organs” actually turned a blind eye to the violation of this article.

Plus, this did not apply to hunting weapons. Smooth-bore guns, berdank, "melkashki" were sold and kept completely free, like fishing rods or garden tools. To purchase them, you had to present a hunting ticket.

Here it is important to understand that the Bolsheviks did not ban, but simply transferred possession of weapons to another plane. And the “tightening of the screws” was compensated by the free circulation of hunting weapons and the general militarization of civilian life.

In addition, the majority of civilian passionaries of that time — factory managers, party commissioners, and all politically important people, all the way to the collective farm foremen, had a gun in their hands and could open fire on those who seemed to be a gangster or a terrorist.

During the period of constant tension on the borders, weapons in general were an inalienable attribute of tens of millions of people living in threatened territories.

And, for example, “excesses on the ground” during collectivization immediately met with adequate armed resistance, which was one of the reasons for the course adjustment and the recognition of “dizziness with success.”

The operational reports of the NKVD departments of that time are full of reports about how the peasants met with ruthless shooting especially zealous “collectivisers”.

After the 1953 year, there was a legislative easing of the procedure for the circulation of weapons among the population. So the citizens were granted the right to freely acquire in the trading organizations a hunting smooth-bore weapon without "problems" with hunting tickets.

At the same time, a group of lawyers of the Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR prepared the first bill on weapons. According to him, "trustworthy citizens" (as in tsarist time, loyal to the regime) were supposed to be allowed to acquire firearms, including short-barreled, on personal property rights.

It was supposed to sell weapons withdrawn from armaments to citizens (except for automatic ones), as well as trophy and lend-lease ones (no limitations on the power of the ammunition used were planned).

The law was approved by almost all instances, except for one, the most important one. By the end of the 50's, the “nuts” came to the starting position.

That all changed at the end of the 1960s. The free possession of even hunting weapons was banned and the requirements of hunting tickets were restored. Since then, no one except the police and military could not freely own a weapon.

The weapon has become a privilege of the police and security officers. For an ordinary citizen, even a hunting rifle meant a humiliating "circulation of references." A campaign for the delivery of the “Okhotinimum” began, which resulted in a police licensing system.
And the number of policemen increased five times.

In Ukraine, the number of police and internal troops is 2,5% of the economically active population. In order to maintain law and order and fight against crime, it is necessary to have 10 times as few as MIA officers.
220 comments
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  1. spender
    +28
    12 September 2012 15: 58
    Well, yes, the whole country was disarmed, but in the 90s the Caucasus was armed with "abandoned" weapons depots and armored vehicles ... Until now, the "profane" in those years at our security officials at night and from "green" winked
    1. +22
      12 September 2012 16: 27
      Few people remember that before the 1917 revolution, weapons were freely sold in hunting stores.

      And they completely forgot that a permit for hunting weapons was not required in the years 30-40-50, the first Khrushchev was scared
      1. +1
        12 September 2012 19: 14
        Now this is not the point, but the fact that there is an arms lobby that will earn a lot of money on weapons.
        We are going to argue utterly whether weapons are good or bad. This is for us - good or bad, more or less corpses, injuries, cripples, orphans, widows or widowers, crime. And they do not care all our arguments for or against, red arrows down comments, green up.

        And for them - more or less dough.
        1. 77bor1973
          +5
          12 September 2012 21: 33
          The fact of the matter is that the arms lobby in our country is still losing to the policeman!
          1. +4
            13 September 2012 00: 23
            Quote: 77bor1973
            The fact of the matter is that the arms lobby in our country is still losing to the policeman!

            More likely judicially - to the power - to the official. Well, at least a dozen rusty and snickering representatives of this clique in our city would have been shot accurately. That traumatic need to cancel! Leave only at the police officers.
        2. +2
          12 September 2012 23: 56
          Most criminal murders occur with the help of kitchen cutlery. Let's ban all forks and knives! Gunshots have always been and will continue to make thousandths of a percent of the number of killed.
        3. mongoose
          +1
          13 September 2012 07: 57
          those. Are you saying that if Russians buy weapons, they will shoot each other right after the "washing"? you were not told that you are a Russophobe?
      2. S_mirnov
        +9
        12 September 2012 23: 50
        Well, frankly, it’s not difficult to get permission for hunting weapons now, and for those who don’t want to run for help, they don’t need to see weapons either.
        The article is very interesting in the selection of material, but carries a disguised hidden meaning. The name itself implies that in 2012. weapons are allowed for free sale - this is a lie. Now more than ever the state is afraid of its citizens, as proof of this the increase in the number of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in my opinion is already greater than the size of the army and the accelerated re-equipment of the Ministry of Internal Affairs (armored Tigers are not at all in the air!).
        The second pitfall is hidden in the premise that everyone himself must shoot the bandits and protect his family, and the state blesses him for this by stepping aside (now, by the way, this is the case, despite the number and powers of the policemen). Those. Previously, crime was fought so effectively that the district police officer with a cucumber in a cabura was enough for the uncle "Stepa" to settle any conflict. Now we need riot police on the Tigers.
        And by the way, I don't remember the bars on the windows of the first floors of houses and the iron doors in the entrances to the USSR! And if a policeman would hit the Soviet Man with a truncheon! Well, this does not fit in my head, despite the "damned totalitarianism" of the USSR.
        1. zulu_1
          +1
          13 September 2012 04: 14
          They didn’t even have batons.
        2. Russlana
          0
          13 September 2012 08: 47
          The Ministry of Internal Affairs is cutting in the same way as the army. So on account of this, you were mistaken.
    2. +12
      12 September 2012 19: 23
      I read an article, an advertisement, and as a Faberge sickle, I want to go to the good old monarchy recourse
    3. -3
      12 September 2012 20: 45
      THIS IS A SCARY PROVOCATION !!! Do not give in !!! As in 1953 with the release of criminals, so with weapons now. CATEGORICAL NO! The 5th column dreams that we would shoot each other, then of course it will be banned, but how many lives will take! Oh, how familiar it all is, brothers, how familiar ... Their receivers. No, no and NO!!!!!!!
      1. Novosibirsky
        +4
        12 September 2012 21: 03
        Thin trolling? ;)
      2. 77bor1973
        +4
        12 September 2012 21: 37
        So you don’t give a damn about the claimed lives, I would forbid the car to die under the wheels more than from a firearm.
      3. +4
        12 September 2012 21: 45
        Quote: Committee
        5th column dreams that we would shoot each other

        Or maybe we’ll shoot into the column, from all the trunks ?!
      4. donchepano
        0
        12 September 2012 22: 00
        committee ... by chance not the 300th ??
      5. 0
        12 September 2012 23: 58
        Correctly. Forbid need all forks kitchen knives and axes! It is from them that most of our citizens perish !!!
  2. +16
    12 September 2012 16: 07
    article + of our government - why are Russians worse or inadequate than Americans?
    1. NICK
      +15
      12 September 2012 16: 31
      Quote: strannik595
      Why are Russians worse or inadequate than Americans?

      One of the two, either the authorities consider the people inadequate cattle, or simply afraid of their people.
      1. +3
        12 September 2012 18: 46
        Definitely, it would be. I recently released a cat for a walk, found in the bushes a couple of days later with three bullet wounds from pneumatics. Hardly saved the cat. The veterinary clinic said that they often bring animals injured from pneumatics and traumas. And imagine the loss that the people give the green light to the acquisition, carrying and use of firearms. Now they shoot at the belly, and there it will reach people. Interrupt. I don’t need a trunk for self-defense. If it becomes tight, I’ll fight off like a screwdriver on the street — I always carry it with you, and if I get into the house I give it with an ax. And catch the olive from some drunken moron - nafig-nafig.
        And the article smacks of order. Who are we selling converted AKMs and AKMSs? Vinnitsa, Kharkov? And officials were thrown a bone. They say there are a lot of cops, and if people are allowed to buy trunks - let them protect themselves, then it will be possible to reduce the cops - there will be more to drink.
        1. Alexey Prikazchikov
          -9
          12 September 2012 18: 57
          If you would have in Ukraine ... lo. THAT don’t have to pull over it befell the Russians alright? Do not measure all by yourself and your um, country)))))
          1. Novosibirsky
            +10
            12 September 2012 19: 18
            C'mon, what kind of country is that? Do we have any less fools? Recently, too, doves shot everywhere are lying around. Everybody notices. Someone is hitting a bird of peace from the balcony, as he goes to work, bastard.
            1. bachast
              0
              12 September 2012 19: 54
              Tell me, why do you need a barrel? This particular type of weapon?
              1. Novosibirsky
                +9
                12 September 2012 19: 59
                I have the right.
                To detail?

                Added later:
                Choat, I'm probably wrong. Maybe you sincerely asked, but I did not.
                I answer essentially. People do not jump on me. It happened, but very rarely. I would put it in a safe and take it only for jogging, I run through the woods, where crazy dog ​​lovers walk their mastodons without muzzles, you see, they think that their Tyson Chiks and Baksiks (stafors and Rottweilers) in the forest can do everything, what they please. Once the owner has flattened, the good of it two! healthy shaggy dogs were not fighting and not trained, and while I was raising him they were content with biting my rabbit, and the second time I scared the rotor away from two girls who, like me, ran in the headphones, the infections did not see what service I rendered them . I’d probably have fallen off with five heels of dogs all the time, you see the owners would have grown wiser.
                And secondly, you have to move around with one with big money, really with big money. I want to increase my chance of survival.
                1. donchepano
                  -4
                  12 September 2012 22: 06
                  it’s better to increase your well-being and your children ..))) so far you’re moving ... for whom you work they will not appreciate you better than yourself ...
                  1. Novosibirsky
                    +2
                    12 September 2012 22: 29
                    Quote: donchepano
                    better increase your well-being and your children ..)))

                    How will this protect me?
                    Quote: donchepano
                    so far you’re moving ... for whom you work they will not appreciate you better than yourself ...

                    Or maybe I'm working for myself? ;)
                2. Fox
                  +3
                  12 September 2012 22: 27
                  I agree, but on the other hand, if the owner of the Baskervilles has a trunk? Will there be a better chance of surviving? Everyone considers: THERE WOULD HAVE ME ... and no one: the other has a trunk too ...
                  1. Novosibirsky
                    +2
                    12 September 2012 22: 47
                    Quote: Fox
                    I agree, but on the other hand, if the owner of the Baskervilles has a trunk? Does the chance of survival increase tremendously?

                    The fair question is, it’s just a hoax from the bullet, actively defending oneself, I’m not so offended as by his mongrel, or I’m living like a fool for the rest of my life, cursing that dashing minute. And if you add a bonus to this in the form of a dead soba, or even better than the owner, then in general the alignment is acceptable, although of course offensive. recourse laughing
                    With all my love for dogs (I have had an East European bitch for 17 years), I am "lucky" with them, like a drowned man. laughing He was bitten three times, fought off twice, and with injuries to the dogs, once he fought off his bitch from the staffer (he learned to fly from me, bitch), and regular "staring games" with them while jogging! BURNED !!! laughing I want blood !!! laughing laughing laughing
                  2. +1
                    22 September 2012 21: 50
                    Never experienced a noticeable boost in self-esteem from having a "trunk" in your belt? Didn't you feel the responsibility of the power that the weapon gives you? If not, then the weapon will not help you and please do not need any abstruse pseudo-humanistic fabrications.
                3. bachast
                  +3
                  13 September 2012 04: 46
                  Maybe you sincerely asked
                  why there were doubts about the sincerity of my question? Yes, I sincerely wanted to know why you need a trunk.
                  Judging by my minuses, morons are increasing on the site (this is not for you, I read your attitude to the rating and ratings).
                  I correctly understood, are you traumatic against a dog or some shocker doesn’t suit you?
                  1. Novosibirsky
                    +1
                    13 September 2012 12: 27
                    Quote: bachast
                    why there were doubts about the sincerity of my question?

                    From an incorrect assessment of the intonation of the question. With virtual communication, this happens.
                    Quote: bachast
                    I correctly understood, are you traumatic against a dog or some shocker doesn’t suit you?

                    So for sure, the injury will just stop the frightened lap-dog, pita will not scare, and they do not feel any pain as an infection)).
                    And for work, and in general laughter. No, only a firearm.
                    1. bachast
                      +2
                      13 September 2012 13: 13
                      From an incorrect assessment of the intonation of a question

                      I’ll be more careful the next time, approaching you (I would not think)) wink
                      Well, about the fact that the injury on pita was not effective, I haven’t tried. I think it’s exaggeration, about their insensitivity. Yes, and the dog seems to be property and most likely you will be at a disadvantage by killing it. Doesn't it seem to you that the problem is necessary to decide on the other hand?
                      By the way, I had a snack myself more than once, but I was to blame myself, today somehow I don’t encounter the problems you described while jogging
                      1. Novosibirsky
                        +1
                        13 September 2012 13: 52
                        Quote: bachast
                        Next time I’ll be more attentive when I approach you (I wouldn’t think)) wink

                        laughing okay, Bachast, don’t get me underlined by politeness, I’m so ashamed recourse
                        Quote: bachast
                        Well, about the fact that the injury on pita is not effective, I have not tried it. I think the exaggeration is about their insensitivity.

                        No, no, that's right, when they don’t feel pain on the adrenaline of nikert. Fighters.
                        Quote: bachast
                        Yes, and the dog seems to be property and most likely you will find yourself at a disadvantage by killing it

                        Yes, I do not care, in fact, that I will lay down this "property", the main thing is that it will not cripple me! And how you look at what the fighters are doing with people, you think "nafig-nafig", it's better to go straight to the backwoods. Faces tear, peritoneum, groin ...
                        And there will be no responsibility if defense. And it will - spit. Not great trouble.
                        Quote: bachast
                        Do not you think that the problem needs to be solved on the other hand?

                        Bachast, where do you live? )) You live in Russia! So return to our sinful land. Which other? Who will decide? When will it be decided? Who will execute the decision? Yes poh .. everyone, everyone for himself. Everything else is so, romance ...
                        Quote: bachast
                        today somehow I don’t encounter problems described by you while jogging

                        Regularly. Weekend I live in a suburb of Nsk, the forest across the road, dog lovers are all there. You’re running, they’re going to a meeting, I’ll immediately take a step, so far not everyone will take a leash. She doesn’t bite me ... ...! laughing And the fact that he himself does not know how his dog’s instinct will behave in the forest is not familiar to him at home! Rams. am laughing
                      2. bachast
                        +1
                        13 September 2012 14: 02
                        Bachast, where do you live? )) You live in Russia! So return to our sinful land. Which other? Who will decide? When will it be decided? Who will execute the decision? Yes poh .. everyone, everyone for himself. Everything else is so, romance ...

                        Well, at least it seems easier and more correct to me to get some amendments to the law regarding dogs than to legalize trunks
                        (the dog itself is a serious breed, but smart and well-mannered, I answer) wink doesn't like a muzzle, even crack
                      3. Novosibirsky
                        +1
                        13 September 2012 14: 18
                        wink doesn't like a muzzle, even crack

                        Exactly! He does not like a muzzle, but does he mean runners? !! am laughing

                        (they didn’t accustom them in time, a guarantee. They all don’t like to walk, but they need to wear clothes before walking, first resist, and then Pavlov’s reflex is a muzzle?
                      4. bachast
                        +1
                        13 September 2012 14: 23
                        I don’t drive through the streets without a muzzle, only in a grove)) by the way, actually he .. the killer of runners wink
                      5. Novosibirsky
                        +1
                        13 September 2012 15: 38
                        Horror !! belay AAAAaaaah-ha-ha-ha-ha !!! So what!!! Who is against the legalization of weapons in Russia? !! Here it is - a real weapon,
                        for which you need to give a license !!! So by the way in many countries and done !!!
                        Ah ha ha !!! Colt me, Colt 45 caliber, no less !!! No! Better give two !!!

              2. -1
                12 September 2012 21: 05
                Good question! It is convenient to carry. And the provocateurs from the fifth column clearly grasped the situation: one will fail, the other will be planted, beauty! ONE SHOT OF BOTH! Do you recognize their handwriting?
                1. Novosibirsky
                  +1
                  12 September 2012 21: 28
                  So sure, we'll find out! This is not their handwriting, this is the handwriting of justice. )))
            2. mongoose
              0
              13 September 2012 08: 00
              from hunting? or rifled? so do not stick this problem to this topic
              1. Novosibirsky
                +1
                13 September 2012 13: 02
                Think again.
          2. 0
            12 September 2012 19: 20
            One moment. Who is talking about Russians? Please read the article carefully, and pay attention to the source.
        2. +1
          12 September 2012 18: 59
          Alexander +! I talk about the same below and expressed my opinion! People here are not ready, embittered, emotions prevail over common sense! Everyone can have a weapon within their home! But you can’t walk in the streets with civilians! We have adequate people and so few are left! Duck, that we’ll give out weapons so that we are shot by scumbags with empty skull boxes !?
          1. fagot
            +3
            12 September 2012 21: 51
            Quote: Northerner
            I talked about the same below and expressed my opinion! People here are not ready, embittered, emotions prevail over common sense! Everyone can have a weapon within their home! But civilians cannot walk with him in the streets! We have adequate people and so few are left! Duck, that we’ll give out weapons so that we are gunned down by scumbags with empty skull boxes !?

            Why didn't Moldovans shoot each other? Or are Moldavians a higher race from the Slavs?
          2. 0
            22 September 2012 22: 09
            In scumbags, instincts determine behavior and believe me, only the instinct of self-preservation is stronger than the instinct to "grab". Really did not see the gopnik prushchego at the PM who was aimed at the head with a firm hand.
        3. Novosibirsky
          +5
          12 September 2012 19: 16
          So reduce the number of cattle! )) He's on your cat, grinned, you are between his horns! )) The next sadist will think about it!
          (a joke of course, but with some truth ...)
          1. +1
            12 September 2012 19: 41
            Duc would know who, for sure would undercut. If not from him, so from his probable descendants, he would surely have guarded him.
        4. Rexei
          +1
          12 September 2012 22: 56
          Now we have it this way: it seems like a thief has climbed up to you, he’s wanted in 15 countries ...! But try to scratch him with your screwdriver and he will openly go to court (somehow everyone will forget about his wantedness), but how YOU DID HIM TO SCAP, so you will be imprisoned for 20 years, but they will pick up cell mates of alternative orientation.
          PSOur state is sooooo afraid of weapons in the hands of righteous citizens ... But all the same, permission for a firearm cannot be issued now: because. the level of drinkability in our country will be directly proportional to the level of killing from this very gunshot, i.e. for short periods of time almost in first place ...
          PPS Oh yes: article "+" for a very good info part on weapons :)
          1. 0
            22 September 2012 22: 14
            The state, represented by its law enforcement officers, oh, how does it dislike a self-respecting MAN, because it will have to be reckoned with. Therefore, I believe that the question of weapons is somewhat "thicker" than the weapon itself.
        5. +1
          13 September 2012 00: 00
          All axes and screwdrivers must be removed so that you do not even have a thought.
      2. loc.bejenari
        +2
        12 September 2012 19: 40
        unfortunately there is both
        i.e
        it is afraid of its people who consider cattle
      3. +3
        12 September 2012 21: 00
        Didn't you think that the healthy guys in power are trying to save the people (unlike the fifth column, which sleeps and sees how to kill us all as quickly as possible), and by the way, what part of the people should they (the authorities) be "afraid of"? Me or what? You? Whom?
        1. Novosibirsky
          +3
          12 September 2012 21: 07
          Good guys from the government ... Strong. How long legally did we trade deaths in the form of smoking mixtures? Do you remember? And I remind you - a year since its inception! Among the revolutionaries it was said that upstairs on the topic they gave half a year of a guarantee, and then on the situation. Do not lie upstairs ...
          How many unreasonable kids died, and how many in a fool forever ?! Where were these sensible guys from power at that time? We don’t need to cast bullets here.
        2. +1
          12 September 2012 22: 37
          "... sane guys in power are trying to save the people ..." You have a good sense of humor laughing
          And if without jokes, then nothing like that. There, people are not interested in anyone. A different order of views.
          1. Novosibirsky
            +1
            12 September 2012 22: 50
            Quote: imrek_ua
            And if without jokes, then nothing like that. There, people are not interested in anyone. A different order of views.

            I will say more, concern for the people there = unsuitability.
      4. donchepano
        0
        12 September 2012 22: 02
        and the 1st and 2nd considers the power ...
    2. Igorboss16
      +6
      12 September 2012 16: 32
      there are a lot of idiots who start to show who’s cooler after drinking, and it often happens fatal for someone, and just look at statistics with traumatic events, they just create horror, and on the other hand, officials who are shaking from just mentioning this law, although they themselves have it, so it turns out that the police are not able to protect you from attacks, and they cannot give normal weapons for personal self-defense, since there are no laws, there are many people who are not averse to using them for completely different purposes
      1. donchepano
        +1
        12 September 2012 22: 11
        here the officials-grabbers will start to leak; at once bribery and bribery will end
        1. Brother Sarych
          +1
          12 September 2012 22: 13
          And who will start? Who will let you into the office with a barrel? Why shake the air for nothing?
          1. Novosibirsky
            -1
            12 September 2012 22: 32
            Where did you see the working framework in Russia at the entrance to state institutions? I have never been. I saw specially trained people with metal IDs at the entrance. But they are bored. A good suit and briefcase guarantee a clear passage.
            1. Rexei
              +1
              12 September 2012 23: 08
              Sorry for the expression, but the muzzle is square and the nose is taller: the passage is provided. You are a world-famous scientist. hi laughing
          2. fern
            0
            12 September 2012 23: 15
            Recently, he frequented the republican government for all sorts of things. So here. In appearance, everything is so strict in terms of passes, and according to passports. Security inside, around the perimeter, next to the building of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. But my backpack, stuffed with all kinds of junk, was not checked. And this despite the fact that there was a squeak on metal detectors at the door. And they are too lazy to hike. Check your passport and pass and go on. Carry at least a nuclear charge. laughing
      2. Geton
        +1
        13 September 2012 05: 07
        Here hunters own legally serious trunks, and 99% of them drink, but for some reason they have not yet shot each other. And all because weapons discipline!
    3. Captain Vrungel
      +4
      12 September 2012 16: 48
      We have one category left unarmed-people. The rest from the army, authorities, law enforcement officers, security guards, private detective offices and to the bandits, are armed. Ukrainian deputies even moved to armored personnel carriers, armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles. And they are raided in cities and villages with election symbols. There are no tanks yet (they won't crawl into ass hatches).
    4. -3
      12 September 2012 18: 04
      you need to go from this site to the site "hunter and fisher" and here are articles about weapons with political jokes
      1. Novosibirsky
        +4
        12 September 2012 18: 46
        Moderator, administrator? No? In this case, do not tell people what to do, and they will not recommend you the direction of your movement.
        1. -1
          14 September 2012 09: 27
          you will not achieve anything carrying weapons and their illegal possession are prosecuted; as it was accepted in 1917, it will be so; who disagrees with our laws the way to your vaunted america
    5. +2
      12 September 2012 20: 50
      You guys fell from the moon or something ?! And here is the adequacy? You read the statistics, how many there are killed by firearms. Well, no, I do not care in general is much stinking niggas on the light with a bullet to go, I do not spit when it starts here ... All "guests of the capital" to arm overnight. And most importantly, everything will be "legal".
      1. Novosibirsky
        0
        12 September 2012 21: 11
        And rightly so this capital! There are no brains, guest workers are right! She, the capital, I feel, wants to wait until the critical mass of migrants reaches such a level that they simply will tear everyone with their teeth, without any gunshots.
        It is high time to understand this, and not to console ourselves with the illusions that the absence of trunks among migrants solves the problem of the geometric progression of their increase.
      2. 77bor1973
        +1
        12 September 2012 21: 39
        So you arm yourself ...
      3. donchepano
        +1
        12 September 2012 22: 13
        guests of the capital are armed ... do not worry, for a long time ... at least cold.
    6. 0
      12 September 2012 22: 29
      The authorities are afraid of their people, they will raise them to the pitchfork.
  3. -2
    12 September 2012 16: 08
    rightly and did that the Bolsheviks forbade wearing any weapon, not that in this vaunted "democracy" in the USA, every day one schoolboy shot half of the class; we do not need teenage killers, and even more so, profit from someone else's grief by selling it to their citizens
  4. itr
    -8
    12 September 2012 16: 09
    What kind of weapon do you want to take up? Go to the army and they will give out for free. There’s a saying hit the knife.
    1. +4
      12 September 2012 16: 24
      probably based on the claims of such clever men, the authorities do not allow citizens to have rifled weapons .............. we are Russians, not samurai (who had a tradition not to return the sword to its sheath without bloodied it) ........ we are like normal people and the expensive police are not always nearby, and there are enough thugs, by the way armed
    2. Novosibirsky
      +12
      12 September 2012 16: 25
      Quote: itr
      What kind of weapon do you want to take up? Go to the army to serve there they will give out for free.

      And what, demobilized, footless, ITR-am (engineering and technical workers), and mothers with children to protect their home and themselves from thugs in the army? And what, weapons can be taken home from the CWC? You definitely understood the idea of ​​civilian weapons, are you talking about it?
      Quote: itr
      there is a saying took the knife

      This is not a proverb, while glory to the Gods, but a prison zapozhnyak. Do you really think that prison "axioms" should be transferred to civilian life?
      Quote: itr
      same with gunshot

      What does this follow from? Sometimes one type of short-barrels calms the bat. I saw it before. If you don’t believe me, here’s an overseas video for you recently flashed here.
      1. +4
        12 September 2012 18: 28
        An interesting video, but everyone forgets our notorious "excess of the necessary self-defense." This is an essential moment, because we acquire weapons not to store, to defend ourselves! In the case of the assassination of an attacker, a case is initiated under the article murder and with such qualifications the defender becomes accused, the investigation and the prosecutor's office in our country know which ones, the judge does not want to risk his place with such an article, there is even something that you had "Saiga" I was preparing for something (these are the words of the former deputy district prosecutor and today's federal judge). It is clear that 20 people judge the path better than 6-ros, but few people are capable of assessing the necessary level of defense in a combat situation, and it may be trivial to have time.
        1. Novosibirsky
          0
          12 September 2012 18: 52
          Quote: Orik
          In our case, in the case of the assassin’s murder, they initiate a case under article murder, and with such qualifications, the defender becomes accused,

          If it is excited as the 105th, then the act of d / b is re-qualified to exceed the limits of self-defense. These are questions of criminal theory and practice, and, therefore, are not static.
          1. +2
            12 September 2012 20: 27
            We have a lot that should, but little is done! Follow the path of least resistance. I quoted the words practice. (((
        2. 0
          12 September 2012 22: 38
          It is necessary to do so, preferably so that your self-defense is not noticed, and everything will be fine.
      2. Dimon
        +4
        12 September 2012 19: 06
        So this is the same video from my native Israel ... :)))) and the good uncle turned out to be :)))
        1. Novosibirsky
          +2
          12 September 2012 19: 21
          Well, Dimon, how is the criminal situation in your hometown? People already shoot each other friend? He swallows on the sidelines ?! laughing
      3. postman
        +1
        12 September 2012 20: 35
        Quote: NovoSibirets
        Sometimes one type of short-barrels calms the bat.

        He (BitonOsetsu) would not hurt PENDEL, that he would remember.
        1. Novosibirsky
          +1
          12 September 2012 21: 14
          I do not mind. Frozen to the loss of a sense of reality bydlovan. But how ridiculously he was blown away!)) Just, just ass, sorry, did not set up)
          1. postman
            +1
            12 September 2012 22: 50
            Quote: NovoSibirets
            But how ridiculously he was blown away!))

            and they are always like that.
            But as the first thing. I didn’t even get hu hu hu
      4. +1
        12 September 2012 22: 35
        That would be all, and there would be order.!
    3. +8
      12 September 2012 16: 28
      I have been in the army since 2000, now with the rank of captain-lieutenant, on a monthly basis I am on duty with weapons, annually shooting combat, but for the seventh year I can’t get permission for hunting weapons. Not absurd?! ... The catch is that I always ride around Russia, all residence permits are temporary, there is no housing, respectively.
      1. postman
        +3
        12 September 2012 20: 38
        Quote: killganoff
        I can’t make out the seventh year

        A military man who has taken an oath should have the right to acquire weapons (hunting, rifled, traumatic), and an officer to the right to acquire, carry, and keep a short-barreled gun, let them be like in a private security company
      2. donchepano
        +1
        12 September 2012 22: 22
        did not try to charge 500 bucks? immediately and registration in the license will give ...
      3. +1
        12 September 2012 22: 43
        I myself am a former military leader, such nonsense is everywhere, you have SVD, and the hunting trunk is no-no. The hollow state, together with its government.
        1. Novosibirsky
          0
          12 September 2012 23: 05
          I report, in the past, a machine gunner. The tail number of my down is 8848))
          But the pistol for me is low, crazy, I'm crazy, not socially adapted, plus maybe a cannibal, and certainly a politically unstable person! ))))
          1. Geton
            0
            13 September 2012 05: 16
            Quote: NovoSibirets
            I'm crazy, crazy, not socially adapted, plus maybe a cannibal, and certainly a politically unstable person! ))))
            But someone is recording ...
            1. Novosibirsky
              +1
              13 September 2012 12: 30
              And let them .., may acquire a sense of humor. )))
          2. Yan005
            0
            13 September 2012 10: 22
            Quote: NovoSibirets

            I report

            Well, isn’t it nonsense ???
            We have it all the time!
    4. Pessimist
      +9
      12 September 2012 16: 39
      Quote: itr
      there’s a saying he took the knife. the same thing with the gunshot

      The attackers will think ten times when they see the barrel in the "victim's" hand. In Moldova, after the adoption of the law on the free carrying of weapons, the number of violent crimes decreased by 37% over the year! Are the Russians more aggressive? And the one who intends to use a firearm for an attack always has a weapon!
  5. mar.tira
    -1
    12 September 2012 16: 28
    In the photo of a lady, the barrel is not otherwise than the 16th caliber gun! What will happen to her if the trigger is pulled! fool
    1. Marmot
      +5
      12 September 2012 19: 49
      You cannot pull the trigger, in principle, it is technically impossible wink
      you can press the trigger Yes
      1. mar.tira
        0
        13 September 2012 06: 38
        [quote = Groundhog] on the trigger [Sorry to make a reservation! Of course the hook! stop
  6. +5
    12 September 2012 16: 31
    Weapons must be returned to the people.
    enough already to consider us as cattle ....... which is always drunk and will shoot at everything that moves.
    We are normal people ........ but crime will decrease by any ..
    1. Novosibirsky
      0
      12 September 2012 16: 35
      To a question.
      http://zbroya.info/uk/2_tematichni-novini/38500_grazhdanskie-litsa-ubivaiut-pres
      tupnikov-bolshe-chem-politseiskie /
  7. +9
    12 September 2012 16: 33
    Weapons are a responsibility, something that many of us lack. I am not against weapons, I am against idiots with weapons.
  8. Brother Sarych
    -1
    12 September 2012 16: 33
    And rightly so, they do not allow the free circulation of weapons! You will be whole, dear comrades ...
    If you have an urgent need for a trunk, but you have not been hunting, go and check the psyche, most likely you have problems with it ...
    Otherwise, we, ordinary people, will have to stock up on trunks for our own peace of mind - hell knows what, crazy people, will wander into your head?
    1. +5
      12 September 2012 16: 36
      Quote: Brother Sarich
      Otherwise, we, ordinary people, will have to stock up on trunks for our own peace of mind - hell knows what, crazy people, will wander into your head?


      Brother Sarych, but the article doesn’t write for you that before the year 17, almost all polls had weapons ???
      Or in your understanding, does this mean that until 17 Russia was inhabited exclusively by loonies ???
      1. Brother Sarych
        +4
        12 September 2012 17: 30
        And do you know that about general armament before 1917 - is that not true? That this was not actually there were quite strict restrictions on who and what could be ...
        1. +1
          12 September 2012 19: 12
          That is, the article is a lie ???
          1. Brother Sarych
            -2
            12 September 2012 19: 18
            Not really, rather a distortion of the truth - but does it surprise you?
    2. Novosibirsky
      +6
      12 September 2012 16: 45
      Boldly! laughing
      So they took everyone who wants to have a civilian weapon in their minds ... Recently, I have increasingly noted that some citizens question the mental health of others, not being experts in this matter, and without putting at least a clarification field on this issue all their student years, and years of practice.)) And from here the following question, and whether similar citizens judge others by themselves? And from here one more conclusion, and what is more appropriate to think of as all potential loonies, sleeping and seeing shooting at live targets, or the desire to defend oneself in this world, the desire is essentially innate ...
      Hmm .. business ...
      1. Brother Sarych
        +2
        12 September 2012 17: 31
        I repeat once again - a normal person does not need a weapon! Especially in the city ...
        1. Novosibirsky
          +1
          12 September 2012 18: 04
          And why do you actually repeat the second time? Suppose those present are not able to hear her at first? laughing Or do you think that you are not able to convey your thoughts the first time? Or do you think that increasing the number of repetitions replaces the arguments?
          1. donchepano
            0
            12 September 2012 22: 30
            to the new SIBERIAN: exclusively and sincerely respect
            Well, KUZENych does not mean human speech ..
        2. raider
          +2
          12 September 2012 18: 37
          What are you saying? It is in which city that it lives so normal that it feels completely safe? Do you either go to the tank with a cop and a security platoon?
        3. -1
          12 September 2012 18: 43
          I repeat once again - a normal person does not need a weapon!
          I completely agree with you. Many here are trying to prove that holding a hidden weapon, a normal citizen, having seen enough of Hollywood. and not only films will immediately become the key to law and order on the street. And all these allegations are only on the basis of articles that Russia had previously allowed the free carrying of weapons. But now, after almost a century., The dashing 90s, which we all remember very well, intoxicating with American films, which are not even all shown in the same fucking America, the concepts are not the same as before the 17th. And therefore, first long-barrel smoothbore, then long-barrel rifled, and only then pistols. And I’m not even talking about the strictest selection and registration.
          1. Novosibirsky
            +2
            12 September 2012 19: 01
            Quote: almost demobilized
            .Many here are trying to prove that having arms of hidden wearing, a normal citizen, having seen enough of Hollywood. and not only films will immediately become the key to law and order on the street

            And who are these many who are trying to prove this?
            If you are interested in my opinion, I believe that "permission" should imply 1 - narcological, psychiatric examination (and not a banal certificate that you are not registered), 2 - training, 3 - exam. It's minimum. I consider your chain: "smoothbore, longbore, then rifled" unnecessary, because a person has a need for a specific type of weapon - defensive, and learns exactly its possession and use. And you can do things with a smoothbore.
            1. 0
              12 September 2012 19: 14
              Novosibirsky,
              And you can do things with a smooth-bore.
              But note, people with a smooth-bore do not walk along Novosib. Having initially a long barrel, a citizen will first understand that he must wear it in a case (hereinafter in a holster), that he cannot be drunk, which is extremely important, that having shot from a gun somewhere in the field he will understand the power of his weapon, what it can do with various items. Gradually, he will develop a culture of behavior with weapons. The hunters will easily understand me.
              1. Novosibirsky
                +2
                12 September 2012 19: 36
                Do not go, ride. C'mon, you're right that you need to improve the culture of handling weapons. Now only the servicemen have it, and even that ... And here the mechanisms can be different. You can, for example, first issue a license only to employees, only for storage, for a period of one year, 1,5. Caught with a barrel outside the house - goodbye weapons. And forever. After 1,5 years, allow wearing. Plus, the age limit for d / b is high, at least 30 years old, before all the same, no money or brains. And to learn to shoot in courses, it will be enough to understand the power of your weapon. And then, according to the situation, the nation will join the weapons, you can try to allow the rest to allow storage, then wearing, then make an age-related relaxation of relief. Well, I think the mechanism can be developed, if wisely.
                1. +1
                  12 September 2012 19: 50
                  Quote: NovoSibirets

                  Novosibirsky

                  Well, you see, you kind of agree that it is impossible now and immediately. By the way, about retired military men, too, is not so simple. Many guys have passed the hot spots and they have an attitude to the use of weapons, let's say, special, you also need to consider. But in general, yes, I did not serve in the army's .. you and not a gun Yes
                  1. Novosibirsky
                    +1
                    12 September 2012 20: 16
                    Quote: almost demobilized
                    Well, you see, you kind of agree that it is impossible now and immediately.

                    Well, not quite like that, I agreed that it wasn’t right away, and that it’s impossible not to speak right now!)))
                    Quote: almost demobilized
                    By the way, about retired military men, too, is not so simple. Many guys have passed the hot spots and they have an attitude to the use of weapons, let's say, special, you also need to consider.

                    I agree, let this psychiatric examination be taken into account. I am for! The soldier has a post-traumatic syndrome - everything, smoke bro, he fought his own. If pathology is generally forever blacklisted, this is clear.
                    Quote: almost demobilized
                    But in general, yes, I did not serve in the army's .. you and not a gun yes

                    Well, it's like a fight against dodging. laughing But generally not constitutionally, flat feet should not be an argument of inequality. )))
                  2. 0
                    12 September 2012 23: 02
                    I would continue: "and if you really want to, then welcome to the army."
                    1. Novosibirsky
                      +1
                      12 September 2012 23: 17
                      Quote: imrek_ua
                      "and if you really want to, then welcome to the army."





                      It is on this wonderful note that I take my leave, gentlemen. laughing
                      Thank you all for the discussion.
                      hi
            2. Brother Sarych
              +1
              12 September 2012 19: 19
              You can only with a hunting rifle around the city do not stagger ...
        4. Marmot
          +3
          12 September 2012 19: 56
          Do you think I'm crazy?
          I have six trunks, every weekend I go either to hunt or to the shooting range. I don’t see anything bad in people who want to learn how to use weapons at the proper level.
          Or do you think the ability to handle weapons is unnecessary for a man?
          1. Brother Sarych
            +1
            12 September 2012 22: 03
            Did someone say something about hunters? It's about something else ...
            1. Marmot
              0
              12 September 2012 22: 39
              And who said that I am only a hunter? I’m also an ICPS shooter and not only)))
        5. postman
          +1
          12 September 2012 20: 39
          Quote: Brother Sarich
          I repeat once again - a normal person does not need a weapon!

          Or can a "normal" person be given the right to decide what he needs?
        6. +3
          12 September 2012 21: 12
          So, by analogy, an abnormal weapon is desperately.
        7. 77bor1973
          0
          12 September 2012 21: 50
          A normal person should have the right to choose, but in a city, more ....
        8. donchepano
          0
          12 September 2012 22: 27
          sir rabbit: don’t wear it, normal .. and don’t bother others to defend themselves ...
    3. +1
      12 September 2012 18: 40
      Brother Sarych, I agree with you +! Nowadays, weapons in the hands of an unbalanced person, and there have been a lot of such ones lately, especially in Moscow and large cities of Russia, will not bring to good! If you want a weapon, buy a smoothbore carbine, go to the shooting range, draw up all the documents, set a safe at home and please !! My home is my castle! And in the event of an attack by hooligans, traumatism or a shocker is enough, and if you behave correctly, no one will bother you! And if you want to rob or something else to do, then you don’t even have time to use your firearm! They will take him from you, and then they will shoot him from him! Since, there is no moral or physical preparation for such actions!
      You should always remember that if they allow the carrying of a short-barreled gun as a civilian, then this will be used first of all by the most frostbitten, and only then by the last ordinary taxpayers!
      ! WE ARE NOT READY UNTIL EMOTIONS PREVAIL ABOUT THE HEALTHY SENSE!
      1. Marmot
        +2
        12 September 2012 20: 03
        You are right, if you are not ready to psychologically use weapons, you do not need them. It is necessary to constantly train with the use of weapons, you need regular shooting. It is also necessary to defeat the psychology of the victim. This is not given to some, it’s without sarcasm in any direction.
        It’s just me personally, I'd rather die standing up and fighting for my life and the life of my loved ones than I will dutifully wait for execution like a ram
        1. Novosibirsky
          +6
          12 September 2012 20: 29
          This is exactly what we lack - the Russians!
          We are ready to defend ourselves only with permission, upon request, or with the tacit consent of the authorities. When she leads us to slaughter in her own interests!
          Slave psychology!
          And if a man has been fortunate enough to protect himself and his families as in Sagra, close him in a cage like a giraffe, and judge him to shit, so that other freedom-loving servants would be disgraceful!
          Guys, think about it! Defense is right from birth! This is the responsibility of those close to you, Mamkin’s mink! How do you not understand that ?!
    4. +2
      12 September 2012 19: 06
      I support. Here is another point that many do not take into account. For an unprepared person, a weapon is not a guarantee of security, but only its illusion. And such an illusion is fraught with the fact that under its influence a person is unreasonably relaxed. And the weapon may well work against its carrier. At the peak moment, until the barrel is pulled out, while it is removed from the fuse, while the barrel is driven into the chamber (and the handles are trembling), the enemy is already there, eyes to eyes. He took the barrel, and it’s good if he cracked the handle on the cumpole, otherwise he would take it and discharge the entire clip into the chest of the defender. Point blank. How do you, citizens, such a picture?
      1. 0
        12 September 2012 19: 15
        So, that's what I was talking about briefly about moral and physical training! You did much better and the main thing is to clearly and reasonably explain why weapons in the hands of civilians (99,9% of whom are not trained) is evil !! Unfortunately, for most of the wearing permit advocates, such clear arguments don't get through! They have different principles and stereotypes, for example, a whole galaxy of cinematic samples from "Boomer" to TV series about bandits!
      2. +1
        12 September 2012 19: 33
        I hasten to correct my mistake. Not barrel-to-chamber, but cartridge-to-chamber. And then right now, a shkolota will run up and tear me apart :)
        1. Novosibirsky
          +3
          12 September 2012 20: 18
          And he’ll do it right, because it’s not worthless to allow such significant reservations!)))
      3. Novosibirsky
        +2
        12 September 2012 19: 47
        And here's another one. And this is not a cool-headed commando, but a banal merchant! Do you think other gop-stoppers will want to "visit" his store?

        1. 0
          12 September 2012 19: 55
          laughing I would not...
          1. Novosibirsky
            0
            12 September 2012 19: 57
            Or here, "auntie godly dandelion." laughing

        2. Katran
          0
          12 September 2012 21: 13
          it was a murder, a striker, was neutralized, lay there was no resistance, why did two control?
          1. Novosibirsky
            +1
            12 September 2012 21: 35
            There is some truth in your words. The last two shots need to be given an expert assessment. But, I believe, they were legitimate, because the attacker was moving. Any fighter knows that it is necessary to approach the wounded enemy from the side that excludes the last shot. And it’s better to immediately control, then come up. Immediately, the attacker actively fidgeted on the floor, and therefore was still mortally dangerous.
        3. postman
          0
          12 September 2012 22: 57
          For finishing off he will not be anything?
          No, humanly, in the heat of those on, receive.
          According to the law (in my opinion) it will not work.
          If it weren’t possible to turn instead of advertising, last 23:00, how about the beer will end
      4. -1
        12 September 2012 21: 00
        Imagine such an absurd situation - A man comes with a crowbar, all so relaxed, and here the hooligans ........... well, from what place do you practitioners then get him from?
        No need to bring the situation to the point of absurdity - there have already been a lot of discussions on the topic of
        that weapons will not be handed out (much less handed out) to anyone
        Only after training, medical examination, obtaining a license, if you have a safe at home and at an unrealistic price.
  9. +10
    12 September 2012 16: 38
    Russia was captured by a monstrous wave of violence. The real kill rate is 40 corpses per 100 thousand people, 40 times higher than in Europe.

    But this level of violence is not because the population has no weapons. And because the law enforcement system works as a catalyst for violence. She is a source of lawlessness herself. It provides impunity to higher taunton macoutes, and it guarantees their right to self-defense from their victims.

    It is necessary to change the country's living arrangements. And then we will have, as in America. Not because everyone can carry weapons. But because the country will begin to punish crimes against citizens. And not only against Putin.

    Юлия Латынина


    FOR ALL THIS IS CORRECT. WE CAN PLAY!
    1. 0
      12 September 2012 22: 45
      I fully support!
  10. andrey.joshua
    +7
    12 September 2012 16: 44
    That’s how it happens .... like it was an article about the disposal of millions of Kalash .... where I suggested: it’s better to sell to the people .... Oh, and how much stench began, from the local rating generals. All the evidences, both true and false ... and complete nonsense, they shut their mouths ... people would not even have thought: About the very defense of people. for all of these nanomodorzes and innovations) And now I’m reading an article, and on you, the total armament of ordinary citizens, and the points for permission to the trunk, for more than 100 years, have not changed !? What's the problem??? Yes, everything is the same ... there should be-law enforcement agencies, law-abiding judges ...... and not as it is now: Moscow-Fyodal governors, with an april foreman ..... Maybe the population has a question about weapons ... then there wouldn’t be at all !? what
    1. Brother Sarych
      +2
      12 September 2012 17: 33
      You don’t have to sell anything, you don’t have to destroy anything - let yourself rest calmly in the warehouses, and let some veterans rub them with oil from time to time! You never know what can happen ...
  11. mar.tira
    +2
    12 September 2012 16: 52
    Actually, any person who wants to can buy it. It’s a matter of money, because a good trunk is not weak, and mental health. Alcohol, drug addiction, and mental disorders are contraindicated. In general, any normal man would really like to experience I have a pleasant severity of firearms in my hands. I have been working with weapons since I was 12 years old. I’m a hunter. I don’t have a bad collection of weapons, including rifled ones, and I always follow how something new appears. Although I’m not a few years old. In Soviet times, weapons could be illegally acquired much easier. Why I don’t know. But on there were a lot of people in his hands (unregistered). And nothing, they killed with ordinary knives, or with axes! There was little shooting. Usually they fired themselves. But this is happening now. And the LRS works now reliably, and nothing needs to be changed,
  12. +3
    12 September 2012 16: 58
    It is necessary to restore the country by restoring people's "sense of human dignity", and our legislation (the presumption of guilt in the defending person and innocence of a person "with a high social status"), law enforcement and the entire system of relationships are directed in the opposite direction. The classics were right - "being determines consciousness." A citizen should, of course, have the right to arms, which in itself would remove many problems, but where are these "citizens"? Whole generations with a criminal psychology and an army of law enforcement officers corresponding to the mores of this society have been formed in society. It seems to me that they started from the wrong end, and all this is just bullshit - they will make slingshots that only the "elite" can get the right to a weapon.
  13. +4
    12 September 2012 16: 59
    Presented a rally of the population with weapons, hardly anyone would dare to disperse such an event
    1. Brother Sarych
      +1
      12 September 2012 17: 37
      Well, yes, but what if the people quarrel at the meeting? How many "democrats" and "nationalists" have in common? Will you collect the corpses?
    2. 0
      12 September 2012 17: 42
      And you are their tanks, tanks ...
      1. Brother Sarych
        -1
        12 September 2012 17: 44
        A bomb is better, much more effective ...
  14. Novosibirsky
    +4
    12 September 2012 17: 00
    C'mon, guys, that once a stupa pound the water ... Nobody in Russia will allow weapons. Security forces crush the arms lobby. Unless they crush you))

    And if on garlic, my position is that I want the trunk for MYSELF, but I don't want my foolish, bummer neighbor!)) But such issues should be resolved by the licensing system. Knowing how everything is arranged with us, I am sure that everyone who can pay for them will have trunks, and then the black market will be flooded with "legal" forgotten, stolen, drunken, and then "bang-bang" will begin))
    And then everything will settle down .. and crime will inexorably decline. IMHO of course.
    The main thing is to survive during the "bang-bang" period, then it will become easier))

    Difficult question ... I used to be categorically against it, now I am ready to take a chance ...
    1. Brother Sarych
      +1
      12 September 2012 17: 35
      Are you sure you will survive? Of course, then crime will decline - people will not be left whole ...
      1. Novosibirsky
        +2
        12 September 2012 18: 12
        Quote: Brother Sarich
        Are you sure you will survive?

        Whenever we all "will not survive", Brother Sarych ... The question of who he lived ... is what should be confusing.
        I definitely don’t want to die a patient. May twelve judge me better than six.
    2. dmb
      +5
      12 September 2012 18: 10
      You can of course not crush. But to be honest, we got it. Want to denounce Soviet power and talk about the bright life of the people under tsarism. so at least do it competently, and not in the style of a lecturer of the 80s in the house of political education in the city of Kologriva. One thing I don’t understand is why the article of the Ukrainian arms lobby is being pushed onto the Russian site? Well, once shoved, do not be offended. In my opinion, even platinum blondes and makeup artist Zverev do not believe in how the peasants, loving their landowners, wanted to stay in the fortress. But nevertheless, the authors of the article speak with affection about the possession of weapons by the serfs. Only now they forget to say that those who actually were the guardian of the master from the slaves who loved him had it. (It is unlikely that A.S. Pushkin is lying). Further more "Thus, the general armament of Russians during the Civil War contributed not only to bloodshed, but also to the self-defense of the inhabitants of Russia from numerous gangs, as well as, for example, the expulsion of the invaders and a wide partisan war against Kolchak in Siberia without any Red Army" The clinic of this phrase is clear by her own. I just want to ask if Kolchak was gouged correctly, then what claims to the communists. If we did without them during the defeat, then what prevented us from continuing without them. Let's go further. Since the late 60s, the red stranglers of freedom have not allowed people to shoot to their hearts' content. Was it necessary? What was the current crime rate? Yes, if on the territory of a region or a republic, God forbid, there was a firearm from an unaccounted barrel, the head of the Internal Affairs Directorate personally went to the place and actually organized the search. So, the emergence of the need to defend oneself is really the only and indisputable achievement of democracy. But if you have time to use it when attacking. It is only in adventure novels that the attacker preliminarily exclaims: "sir, I have the honor to attack you." In life, he shoots first, because it will be assumed that you have a barrel immediately after the adoption of the law. It may be easier to return to the old system, when our police of a new look will become the old militia that existed (also not without sin) before the reign of M.S. Gorbachev.
      1. Novosibirsky
        +4
        12 September 2012 19: 11
        I will try to answer, only omit the historical retrospective, for I still prefer to operate on the real one.
        Quote: dmb
        Just if you have time to use it in an attack.

        This is my business, give a chance. Without a trunk, the average person is not able to resist at all. If you train him, arm him - the situation changes dramatically. The whole YouTube is overwhelmed with a video of effective self-defense from robbers, in the comments posted a link to US statistics on the offense of US citizens. Check it out. (Attention, link from the Ukrainian site !!!))
        1. dmb
          0
          12 September 2012 20: 02
          I agree to return to the evaluation of the idea without historical digressions, although perhaps we cannot do without it. It would be your personal business, don't talk about weapons. You never wondered. why professional killers immediately throw away the barrel, not appreciating its reliability and quality. Now, even with the fantastic venality of our law enforcement system as a whole, the acquisition of "left" weapons is a certain difficulty. You can consider yourself a potential client of an attack after turning on the real traffic. When someone else is killed from the barrel taken away from you, it will immediately cease to be your personal matter and become a criminal case against you (under certain conditions Second. When you say train and arm, you mean yourself and only yourself. they are capable of this, not knowing you personally, I don’t presume to judge. I can say for myself. After giving the army 30 years, being in situations of very different, I did not learn how to shoot at people. , if it is not a good psychologist who has flooded the balls. Next, you talk about the protection of children and households, that is, basically we are talking about the home. Who is stopping you from buying a hunting rifle and protecting the hearth. If you are with your household in the park during the day, then most likely you do not need a pistol., and if you go to the tavern with him in the evening, the security will not let you in. Agree that the link to YouTube is not objective. Who will show you unsuccessful cases protection. This is usually called a cemetery report.
          1. Novosibirsky
            +1
            12 September 2012 20: 53
            Filling the black market will, of course. But, it is deliberately exaggerated. With a competent approach to legalization, I am sincerely convinced that we are almost not noticeable.
            Quote: dmb
            the acquisition of "left" weapons is a certain difficulty.

            So for sure, complexity, for the layman. 95% of supply and demand in the market are operational substitutes. But the organized crime group does not experience problems with access to weapons. I’ll pay tribute, the organized crime group is certainly not a murmur, and it’s not sharing weapons with bydlovans, but it’s not even necessary for small-scale crime to achieve its goals, dining room knives are enough. If it appears with them, mutual shooting will certainly take place, but I sincerely consider this a temporary and exaggerated phenomenon. Who knows, only practice can answer this question, but it is available abroad. Nothing, people live, prosper. Of course, there are excesses, but we have enough of them, at the household level, at least have gone. Further, if I lose the trunk, I immediately write a statement. There is nothing to talk about. No liability. You can, of course, introduce an administrative one, for example, for the sake of crime, or criminal, but not the loss will be announced, but the theft, no matter the details.
            Quote: dmb
            I can say for myself. Having given the army 30 years, being in very different situations, I did not learn how to shoot people. (although it was necessary).

            so you understand the difference between the desire to shoot and the need. I suppose do not question the readiness to shoot during defense? A trained person will fire, which in fact happens. Self-preservation instinct - the basic ...
            Quote: dmb
            Next, you talk about protecting children and household ... etc

            I answered above why I personally wear, I can still detail, but probably enough. Storage will not suit me, I need to wear.
            Quote: dmb
            Agree that the link to YouTube is not objective.

            What could be more objective than real video?
            Quote: dmb
            Who will show you unsuccessful cases of protection.

            Alas, we have them. But this is protection without weapons, and the result is corresponding ..
            1. dmb
              0
              12 September 2012 22: 24
              Well then. The discussion can continue indefinitely. Time will tell which of us is right. I personally see only one big plus. The power will reflect. does she need to remain under this very authority in the event of her failed rule. Here, after all, no FSO is enough.
              1. Novosibirsky
                0
                12 September 2012 22: 38
                Quote: dmb
                Well then. The discussion can continue indefinitely.

                Yes .., I agree ... Anyway, it's all pathetic, demagogy, and rhetoric without practice. Things will never be so ...
    3. -2
      12 September 2012 19: 16
      Exactly. About the bully-neighbor - to the very point. And we have such ....
      1. Novosibirsky
        -1
        12 September 2012 21: 18
        Here it is possible and necessary to connect the precinct, + IC.
  15. -3
    12 September 2012 17: 11
    as they say, all are created equal, it said God and Colt smile
    1. 0
      12 September 2012 20: 12
      Actually, this saying sounds like this: the Lord God created people, and Colonel Colt called them equal.
  16. +4
    12 September 2012 17: 15
    But the bandits definitely have everything according to their concepts, the weapons they need. And the law and power do not allow respectable citizens. So on whose side is the power and laws ????????
  17. +4
    12 September 2012 17: 16
    And I saw these very pre-revolutionary weapon catalogs when the USSR was still there. Very, you know, impressed ... So maybe we will return?
  18. +4
    12 September 2012 17: 38
    The funny thing is that yesterday those of my acquaintances who were not bureaucrats themselves yelled about the need to give the people the right to arms. Today, these acquaintances of mine, by the will of fate, have become bureaucrats ... and they yell just as zealously about the fact that the people are weapons "in no case, no, no"! Afraid of the chinshu of the people. And he does the right thing. We will not make revolutions. We will punish every single bureaucrat.
    1. Brother Sarych
      -3
      12 September 2012 17: 43
      So why do you need a weapon - to commit lynching? Well wait, wait ...
  19. +4
    12 September 2012 17: 40
    The arms market, this is a colossal income, moreover, there is no need to "plow and sow", millions of barrels are in warehouses, sell it - FREEZE. The greed of big traders who make millions and billions by robbing their country is understandable, as well as the hearty interest of our overseas "friends" to arm regional detachments (for self-defense "from terrorists and bandits"). The interest of the newly-minted masters of life, who also want to insure their impunity with amendments to the law on arms, is also understandable. The motive of people with complexes is understandable, who hope that the gun will make them, if not Batman or Superman, then at least a man. The motive from a whim for a prestigious toy is understandable, in order to join the status of nobles, knights and samurai, on occasion to play or to spend time. But, the motive of those who sincerely believe that it will be better for everyone with a weapon is not clear, peace and a calm life will return. Probably, as before, when the police went about with an empty holster, the doors were not locked, they were not afraid of children in the evening, and the bars on the windows were in a savings bank or prison. Good luck, guys.
    1. Brother Sarych
      0
      12 September 2012 17: 42
      Great post, bravo!
      1. -1
        12 September 2012 18: 50
        Join us! Yes Although, I think that now the police do not walk with an empty holster.
    2. Novosibirsky
      +3
      12 September 2012 18: 39
      Quote: Per se.
      The arms market, this is a colossal income, moreover, there is no need to "plow and sow", millions of barrels are in warehouses, sell it - FREEZE.

      I agree, commercial interest is present.
      Quote: Per se.
      The self-interest of big merchants who make millions and billions, robbing their country is understandable,

      Well, let's not put everything in a heap, and here the looting of the country. Sales taxes, from schools, from shooting galleries, from the whole industry. What is the loot here?
      Quote: Per se.
      the heartfelt interest of our overseas "friends" to arm regional units (for self-defense "from terrorists and bandits")

      Well, for the sake of justice, they started it with themselves, so the argument is also debatable. It’s not the weapon itself that aggravates the situation, but social inequality. Well, let’s leave it .., for a long time, you understand, I think.
      Quote: Per se.
      The interest of the new owners of life, who also want to insure their impunity through amendments to the law on weapons, is also understandable.

      With apparent transparency - absurdity. The owners of life, on the contrary, do not need any amendments, they are still with the trunks. But whether it is in their interests to have a barrel at the object of their aggression is a big question.
      Quote: Per se.
      The motive of people with complexes is clear .. etc.

      The motive of people resigned to the role of the victim, effective resistance at a critical moment, who prefer to turn into mincemeat is also understandable ...
      Jedem das Seine
      Quote: Per se.
      from whim to a prestigious toy

      What for example is prestigious TT or PM? Most, for the purposes of self-defense, have these modest devices behind their eyes. The rest are the gods of the judge, people with cars are played, and nothing. People are crushed in the blue. That there is no such opposition? And what, - Down with expensive cars !!! )))
      Quote: Per se.
      But the motive of those who sincerely believe that with arms will be better for everyone is not clear, peace and quiet life will return.

      This is sophistry, respected Per se ... There are no others, but those farther ... There is no longer that world, and never will be ... Sorry, I agree one hundred percent, but we have what we have. Law enforcement agencies are not able to protect a person, he needs to be given the right to do it himself, this is his inalienable right from birth. We can’t even knife, to die bleeding in the gateway, that’s our only right. How are our security officials joking - no body, no business? Attitude as to cattle. You choose who to be.
      1. 0
        12 September 2012 20: 13
        Novosibirets, I fully support you, although for your opponents the very thing is that you are a negative character. Well, estimate, as of now - an official, I have access to weapons (AK, PP-19, PYa, PM it.d.), I have IL-27 and would also like to acquire a legally normal short-barrel (for some reason, the soul lies with the PMM) . I don’t want to argue, laziness. But, as an argument, I recalled the verse of Filatov
        "What a cunning people,
        don't put a finger in their mouth
        thinks everyone else is a freak,
        despite being a freak "
      2. +3
        12 September 2012 21: 26
        Recently I saw one of our famous lawyers, it was about the legalization of the short-barreled. With faith in honest eyes, he explained what a blessing it was, because the criminal, literally, would be afraid of everyone, not knowing if the person had a gun. This is sophistry, dear Novosibirsk. Is he, a lawyer, not to know that the death penalty has been abolished in Russia, and the purpose of the COMBAT weapon is the murder of a person, sports and hunting have a different status and purpose? The legalization of military weapons is the actual legalization of lynching with the imposition of a death sentence, without trial or investigation. About the "masters of life" is absurd, you say? You are right, they do not need to bother with the acquisition, but when their manly manners under the guise of self-defense will cover up the law, believe me, the truth will not be on the side of ordinary people. He and the road accident now get away with a lot. Of course, people are often killed not with pistols, but with hammers and kitchen knives, even a pillow or a tie, but from a pistol, you see, it's much easier. "The role of the victim", but nothing will change except that the victim will also have a personal trunk. Whoever needs it, before and trained police officers were attacked, with the aim of taking possession of a weapon, what to say about "glamorous chickens", the gun will not make the weak strong. I, by no means, am not a pacifist, if it seemed to you that way, it is simply, in my opinion, that the rights and opportunities that the Law "On Weapons" gives are quite sufficient for any normal man. For the rest, let the teachers teach, the doctors treat, and the police and the army protect. This is the meaning of a civilized state, not cowboy amateur performances. I see no reason to argue anymore, we will not decide, the influential lobby is strong on short-handed, and, most likely, the law will be dragged through. For the rest, as they say - "Suum cuique" (to each his own), your opinion, your right.
        1. Novosibirsky
          0
          12 September 2012 21: 41
          In principle, I can continue to oppose you with all your points, but I see no reason, sorry. If I can even convince you of anything, tell me, we will continue. Sincerely.
    3. andrey.joshua
      0
      12 September 2012 20: 08
      Well, yes .... of course, as always, the desire to grab the trunk ... that's all:
      to join the status of noblemen, if their pistol doesn’t do it with Batman or Superman, you hope to compensate for the length of the pussy with the length of the barrel .....
      .Ah, it turns out because of what in our country .... every million years a population of one million crumbles .... yes, the right to vote against everyone, no .... all the real estate .... the whole territory is bought up for nothing, CHURT knows who .... In Ulyanovsk, the NATO base is already .... and did anyone ask the Russians for consent to this outpost of the alliance ??? I am sure that 90% of Russians would be against ...
      Anyway, and for the filthy 30 pieces of silver, you still have to answer, verified by the BIBLE, this is I to you, someone:
      Brother Sarych and Per se.
      negative
      1. Novosibirsky
        -1
        12 September 2012 20: 59
        Quote: andrey.joshua
        .Ah, it turns out because of what in our country .... every few years the population is crushed by a million ....

        laughing And that’s right ...
  20. 0
    12 September 2012 17: 40
    Great article. Respect and respect for the topic for the author!
    It remains to add that the right to the defense of life and health is provided for in Article 45. of the Constitution.
    As for the question of the draft law in the 50s, this was done on the initiative of the now slandered and spat upon Beria L.P.
    Own weapons, including short-barrels, should, if desired, by anyone over the age of 18 years. If he is mentally healthy and has not committed criminal offenses! In modern life, this is absolutely necessary!
  21. -1
    12 September 2012 17: 43
    great article! For pictures set off! But seriously, I do not believe that weapons will be allowed for citizens. Although I would like to ...
  22. AlexMH
    +2
    12 September 2012 18: 26
    The article has many distortions. Firstly, the decree of Paul 1 did not have any special meaning. It is hard to imagine that so many nobles went on river vessels along the Volga, and that their skewers could scare river bandits, so the robbery suddenly stopped. Secondly, the tightening of the nuts about carrying weapons began after the 1st Revolution, so the government was already afraid then, but even before that it was an unthinkable luxury to buy a revolver for a worker or a peasant, because the average salary data did not belong to these categories. In fact, the revolver was worth as a semi-annual earnings of a peasant, and for what he needed him? In hungry years to rob? Hunting rifles really had many, but not in the Non-Black Earth region. Massively, people received weapons after World War I and the Civil War.
    Thirdly, after the Revolution of 10 years, the attitude to weapons was very liberal, but further members of the party automatically had the right to carry short-barreled weapons.
    Further, in Soviet times, hunting weapons were indeed sold only by hunting ticket, but there was no permission with such hemorrhoids as now - I have had guns with my father all my life, went with a ticket and bought it.
    As for street crime - we are all cool and snipers in general, but I assure you that if the weapons are allowed, we will buy it, the producers will profit, but they will not carry around a kilo of iron with work every day, in summer over a shirt, in winter under a sheepskin coat none. After all, you have to have time to get it, cock it, decide to shoot and hit! And the gangster’s trunk is ready for you, and even legal - it’s out of business, and it’s not coming home from work ... :)
  23. Gorchakov
    -1
    12 September 2012 18: 36
    I am for the permission of weapons in Russia, if only because I hang myself and rush from the top floor to the bottom .... I want a gun !!!
    1. -2
      12 September 2012 19: 18
      My dear, well, what’s so right away! You can carefully drill your temple with a puncher belay
  24. -1
    12 September 2012 18: 46
    I want a gun !!!

    What prevents buy a gun?
    One gets the impression that everyone needs a weapon only for self-assertion - is there anything else?
  25. 0
    12 September 2012 19: 00
    I would travel with even a gun =)
    1. Brother Sarych
      -4
      12 September 2012 19: 23
      Lack of length of pussy hoping to compensate for the length of the trunk?
  26. +1
    12 September 2012 19: 00
    Apply weapons for self-defense - This is one. Another, and more significant, is then to justify that it was applied lawfully. (Alas, they will hardly give.)
    1. Lech e-mine
      0
      12 September 2012 19: 14
      our beloved power for the use of weapons even registered even for self-defense can easily be imprisoned for several years. It doesn’t matter if you were right - a simple citizen, by law, DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO APPLY FIREARMS. THIS IS A PROGRESS OF THE STATE.
  27. biglow
    +2
    12 September 2012 20: 04
    We don’t need a weapon, before the revolution there was a different culture, and now permission for a short barrel will only add work to forensic experts and forensics.
    1. Novosibirsky
      0
      12 September 2012 21: 01
      Nicho Nicho laughing , let them not only puff over the slaves, let them still work on the masters. They sleep and see this contingent. There, more money can be recaptured on "cosmetics" and on embalming.
  28. PATRIOT 13
    +1
    12 September 2012 20: 41
    gorgeous article !!! multiply and distribute !!!! there is no point in talking about the state .. this is a "matrix" .. the question is which capsule from the hands of Morphius to swallow .. this is the choice .. and then he took the ball, hu ... h !!! and don't look back !!!
  29. 0
    12 September 2012 20: 50
    and I am against the distribution of weapons, they put everything as an example of UWB, they say it is possible and we are like bald chtoli, so I want to remind you of the level of killings in the same UWB, it pierced the heavens and is in first place in the world ahead of other countries.
    1. Novosibirsky
      -2
      12 September 2012 21: 23
      Oh, how crafty this statistic is ... Please share. And then let's compare it elementary with our "everyday", then multiply by the refusal rate in initiating criminal cases, take into account the number of missing persons, and now togaaaaaa .. together we will "smile". ((
  30. 0
    12 September 2012 20: 51
    I want a gun! soldier
    1. Novosibirsky
      -1
      12 September 2012 21: 24
      Quote: genad2
      I want a gun! soldier
      = You are a psychopath! )) Not I said, the axiom was derived above.
    2. Brother Sarych
      0
      12 September 2012 22: 05
      Buy a toy and go with it!
  31. plump
    +2
    12 September 2012 20: 52
    In some areas of Russia, the population has a whole arsenal, but there is no general shooting. And try to transfer the argument to a wheelbarrow. Is the car dangerous? Yes. Can she own everything? No, what are you !!! They will crush each other, because we don’t have a hundred-year-old riding culture! (statistics of fatal accidents follow) Conclusion: - a small car is a dangerous thing, let alone a truck ... What if it flies to a bus stop? Down with the trucks!
    1. 0
      12 September 2012 23: 57
      Comparison of vehicles and weapons is incorrect. They have different purposes. Transport was not created in order to kill and mutilate people, it is the result of a violation of the rules for its operation, and weapons are designed specifically to kill and mutilate.
      1. mongoose
        +2
        13 September 2012 11: 40
        blah blah blah, the same weapon was not created for murder but for protection! enough stone and stick to kill
        1. Novosibirsky
          0
          13 September 2012 12: 32
          Why so sophisticated, prepared person enough hands.
  32. Kochetkov.serzh
    +1
    12 September 2012 21: 07
    the article is very interesting ... and by the way, it’s correct that in those days it was possible to buy it freely and wear, though the people were different then.
    but I would revise the current law on weapons, and in terms of adding to the Georgian weapons the possibility of firing with a bullet with a steel core and not rubber.
    1. 0
      12 September 2012 22: 15
      Therefore, all revolutionaries were both armed and equipped (1905-1907, 1914-1917) ...
    2. biglow
      0
      12 September 2012 22: 19
      Kochetkov.serzh,
      Before the revolution, to those laws that were also mentioned were the laws or amendments to the present and not everyone could buy weapons for themselves and people were different, there was no drugs, there was no honor, the country was a peasant, a pious murder for sin was considered and not like now. the people of the state were afraid.
  33. 0
    12 September 2012 21: 27
    I don’t know, I’m for a short-barrel, but after the army and having gone through all the stages of hunting weapons (five years smooth-bore, five years diced) ...
  34. 0
    12 September 2012 22: 00
    Prohibit traumatic weapons, but allow the short-barreled subject to: service in the RF Armed Forces, hunters. Categorically prohibit: former criminals who did not serve in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation or in special. services and criminalize slave. Ministry of Internal Affairs issuing permits to these categories
    1. biglow
      0
      12 September 2012 22: 15
      d.gksueyjd,
      Nowadays, when you can do anything for bribes, including evading responsibility for murders, it’s extremely dangerous to allow weapons. Especially given the easy access to drugs, and drug addicts with guns will be hell
  35. 0
    12 September 2012 22: 32
    how could they pass such a country ??? !!!!!!!!!!
  36. zevs379
    +2
    12 September 2012 22: 34
    without the right to self-defense, we are just slaves. The authorities should not decide for the citizen in what way he protects himself and his relatives from danger. Believing the authorities that the police will protect us, for 95 years we turned into an amorphous cattle. Because we spit in our faces all who hosh.
    All reinsurers - PNH
  37. donchepano
    0
    12 September 2012 22: 57
    time is ... a weapon is needed, hosh noshosh ...
  38. -1
    13 September 2012 00: 17
    Threw to fig everyone ....
    I will say one thing: if some dog cuts mnu on the road, I will yield to him. The instructor taught me: Give the Road to the Fool. 3D always works ...
    But if this bitch in a Lada unshaven creature cuts me, I am ready to kill him.
    From pneumatics or from gas or finally from SAIGI. And there are millions like me. It is necessary to introduce the free carrying of weapons.
    1. Brother Sarych
      0
      13 September 2012 00: 19
      That's why you do not need to enter ...
  39. +1
    13 September 2012 00: 28
    The article is a huge PLUS !!! True, only one category of the country's inhabitants has no right to weapons - SLAVES. And everything else is from the evil one.
  40. +1
    13 September 2012 08: 47
    New Siberian (1) Yesterday, 19:47 p.m. ↑ ↓ 2
    And here's another one. And this is not a cool-headed commando, but a banal merchant! Do you think other gop-stoppers will want to "visit" his store?

    Finished, we would have been put in prison for this.
  41. Beck
    +1
    13 September 2012 09: 28
    Vulgar truth. A man is genetically different from a woman. True. Any weapon is genetically an extension of the hand. This was necessary both on the hunt and now for self-defense. Supreme truth. When a man simply picks up a dagger or holds a pistol grip in his hand, without any intent, examining a weapon, a mixture of admiration, satisfaction, bliss and aspiration is poured over the male I. And this is also genetically.

    Weapons are an integral part of a man, like pants. Weapon is the confidence and complacency of a law-abiding person. And the feeling of anxiety and anxiety of the attacker, what if the potential victim has a weapon. Arms equalize all men in dignity and honor. The huge, arrogant brute cannot rely on his fists. That is why Colt was called the "great equalizer" in the USA. The thugs could not destroy and take away with impunity. Above boorish strength was the quickness and vigilance of the eye. And by the appearance of a person it was impossible to determine who was faster and sharper. Therefore, willy-nilly, one had to behave with restraint and, to varying degrees, courteousness, not crossing the line of a lightning throw of the opponent's hand to the holster on the hip.

    Weapon culture is a question. But it will never be resolved unless the carrying of weapons is permitted. This is for law-abiding citizens. For cybercriminals, a weapon culture is not the default.

    If there is a weapon, then we, the former "scoops" will shoot each other. I agree, in the beginning there will be blood and a surge in murders. But this will be temporary. Until some of the impudent people, boors, criminals are shot, and the other part of boors will restrain their ardor. The impudent ones will no longer climb out of turn. Hams will not insult the weak and the orphan. Reckless drivers will not cut other cars and create accidents.

    What happens in America. Excesses. So excesses, not the rule. Any technical adaptation of civilization can be used to kill. In my opinion, these non-motivated crimes are committed by mentally abnormal people. They could also use both fire and a large-ton truck. In this case, the issue is education and psychiatric prevention.

    Personal weapons are the hallmark of a free man from a slave. This is a worthy response to the criminal and the boor. This is male pride and an inexplicable sense of admiration for something truly masculine.
    1. bachast
      +2
      13 September 2012 09: 57
      You still have to try this to create a similar comment ...))
      And such masterpieces are just without comment
      Any weapon is genetically an extension of the hand

      belay
      1. Beck
        +1
        13 September 2012 12: 55
        bachastu.

        I didn't understand whether it was condemnation or approval. But, "continuation of the hand" is an allegory device, only that.
        1. bachast
          0
          13 September 2012 13: 22
          Well, I can say that after reading the mood I lifted myself. And if "genetically" is an allegory, then it's okay! In general, to write like this, you need to believe in it
          This is male pride and an inexplicable sense of admiration for something truly masculine.
          everyone has their own interests, you have to arms, I admire other things, this is normal
    2. Novosibirsky
      0
      13 September 2012 12: 57
      Yes OK...

      (took hi )
  42. +2
    13 September 2012 10: 16
    An interesting historical essay. But I don’t understand why, what was once before possible (need) to directly project on the present?
    If we recall the times of the development of new lands, centuries old, then we had to go out to the arable land with an ax behind the belt, out of the cave - only in groups and with full arms with peaks, stone axes.
    It is unlikely that a modern person has a cuirass under his clothes, a pair of revolvers on his belt, but if such a probability is high, the attack will always be sudden and with a single outcome, precisely because of the prevalence of personal weapons. If aggression, robbery is a crime and is punished for it, but nevertheless there are dashing fellows who love this "business", then they will simply adopt a different tactic of attack (without the stage of moral influence and intimidation, immediately from around the corner with a club on a kumpol or a shot at back).
    Correctly the decree of Emperor Paul was mentioned. If you have an estate privilege, you are obliged to carry weapons to protect yourself and others, and to defend others weakly, then a sword above your head will be broken at a shameful pillar (you would also have to castrate so as not to breed like fellow ).
  43. Novosibirsky
    0
    13 September 2012 13: 07
    Quote: Kite
    If aggression, robbery is a crime and is punished for it, but nevertheless there are dashing fellows who love this "business", then they will simply adopt a different tactic of attack (without the stage of moral influence and intimidation, immediately from around the corner with a club on a kumpol or a shot at back).

    I sincerely think this is a mistake. They practice with a bat on the head from behind, they still shoot comers, and it does not depend on the presence or absence of weapons, it depends on the degree of frostbite, on the pirate's "suit". Not every Zhulman will go for murder. And if he has already decided, that's it, the lack of weapons will not stop him. Look for, alter, cut the smoothbore, or stupidly .. with a hammer.
    And the majority always remain in their field, and they will never go to mokruha, because understand - the term is completely different, and the opera is different, and therefore the shkonka looms real.
  44. +1
    13 September 2012 15: 39
    I read comments, come to an idea (some kind of deja vu), the arguments of opponents and supporters are convincing, that is, everything that is predicted (both negative and positive) will possibly take place.
    The question is, what will be individual and temporary from this, and what will be general and stable? Or, in other words, it all boils down to the possible damage to the most valuable thing - life and health (I would like to elaborate - "uninvolved people"). And now we are unlikely to be able to assess this (although this is possible in principle and it is assumed that competent structures do this if this is the way to go).
    Of course, a free person must have the right to a weapon that ensures, in the general case, the realization of the following needs:
    1. self-defense (someone is inclined to completely deny this need);
    2. cultural and aesthetic (here it will be much more difficult to ignore);
    3. the ability to manage their own lives (here believers can object to me, but I’m talking about objective need and the human right to realize it in certain circumstances).
    Since any society is a self-regulating system and the instinct of self-preservation is key in regulating people's behavior, objectively, the necessary norms of human behavior should be developed in a short time, taking into account the emergence of a new dangerous factor. Examples can be cited (I don’t take Switzerland, where demobels are left with standard weapons, there it is already an established norm), the Baltic neighbors, Moldova is a former hot spot, where crime after the permission of short-handed, according to their information, has significantly decreased. Regrettably, strength (read danger) requires respect. We often form the idea that Russia is a "perpendicular country" and that "everything is not like people in our country." We can agree on something here, but not on weapons. It is possible to be bullied with traumatics, you will not experience combat. There are other important points related to the responsibility for the application. Naturally, it is necessary to change the legislation - this is the main thing, and there is an "unplowed field" here (I hope that competent people are working on this). In short, I see two paths: either we are going to the rule of law in an evolutionary way, but for us this is indeed an endless process with an unclear perspective, or - radically (by Russian standards), but extremely purposefully.
    So I vote FOR!
    1. Novosibirsky
      +1
      13 September 2012 15: 48
      I support your point of view. Let us be realists, not idealists, the evolutionary method is not our method at all, and it never was.
      Quote: V. Salama
      but for us it’s really an endless process with an uncertain perspective,

      And this is still very diplomatically said ...
      1. 0
        15 September 2012 13: 52
        Quote: NovoSibirets
        Let's be realistic ...

        The thankless job is to be realistic. The essence of the problem, formed on this page by opinions that correspond to the logic of things, involves conceptual changes in the legal system with the introduction of a new conceptual framework. Which, in turn, will have to lead to the necessary changes in public consciousness. By the legal system here (in my opinion, significant) I mean not only the system of relevant regulatory legal acts, but also the well-established ideas on this subject in the minds of law enforcement officers.
        Changing the laws "On Weapons", "On Weapons Circulation", the corresponding articles of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation and the Administrative Code, will change only a small part of the system, its element. And the system either rejects or modifies an alien element. Otherwise, it (the system) collapses, which is hardly so easily, without resistance, will allow the bureaucratic instinct of self-preservation. Consequently, on this path we will inevitably expect a lot of marasmus (like "they wanted the best, but it turned out as always") and our opponents will also hang on us "these dogs".
  45. plump
    +1
    14 September 2012 00: 32
    Bandyuk no permission is required.
    By the way, hunters, remember there was a restriction on the length of the barrel? The authorities were afraid to give weapons that could be hidden under the floor. Why was you afraid? Looks like they know something about themselves ...
    1. 0
      14 September 2012 13: 58
      Yes, you’ll be foolish to repeat that the government is afraid for itself if you have a short barrel! In our army, not Martians serve, the same weapons are entrusted to them by a more serious pocket gun.
      Try to work out the draft law yourself and get an answer opposite to your opinion at present. For example: should there be a simplified procedure for the purchase and registration of weapons, their storage with citizens? Yes!??
      If the question is not primitive, then how? Should there be a reputation, law-abidingness, sufficient physical and mental health, .... (add yourself)? And your neighbor will subscribe to your description, do you often bicker with him? Etc. - Thoroughly think over a lot of questions (development, acquisition, storage, responsibility for use and loss (in the old days, the loss of an assault rifle - an emergency in the army, the loss of a gun - a terrible emergency))
      As a result, according to your project, weapons can be: 1 - for anyone (a neurotic, a scandalist, a thug, an alcoholic, ....), 2 - only for a select few, people who have taken great risk and additional responsibility for society, among which you You may not get it. And then what did they achieve? !!
      1. +1
        15 September 2012 13: 25
        Quote: Kite
        In our army, not Martians serve, the same weapons are entrusted to them by a more serious pocket gun.

        With all due respect, this is a weak argument - the analogy is not adequate for the expected situations.
        Quote: Kite
        in the old days, the loss of an assault rifle - an emergency in the troops, the loss of a pistol - a terrible emergency)
        and not only in your words I can confirm my statement, the army is an instrument of the state, a special structure (we recall the system of control, education, and internal security).
        Quote: Kite
        should there be a simplified procedure for the purchase and registration of weapons, their storage with citizens? Yes!??

        Something must change. I remember in the media the case was exaggerated - they found a granny’s cartridge in a can with nails, and if it weren’t for public outcry, they would have soldered to the maximum (did they fulfill the plan?).
        Quote: Kite
        As a result, according to your project, weapons can be: 1 - for anyone (a neurotic, a scandalist, a thug, an alcoholic, ....), 2 - only for a select few, people who have taken great risk and additional responsibility for society, among which you You may not get it. And then what did they achieve? !!

        Here is an obvious attempt to manipulate consciousness: 1. weapons (as now) cannot and will not be in anyone's possession (in my opinion, no one has argued about this here). The draft law may be successful or not, but this is the problem of those responsible for making the appropriate decision; 2. the weapon should not be "only among the elite" (it is not clear what meaning this concept is filled with?); 3. Of course, weapons should only be held by people who are aware of the danger of weapons and the responsibility that will be imposed in the event of damage, and who know how to properly handle these weapons.
        There are additional tasks that must be solved, but I personally do not see unsolvable problems. Sincerely.
        1. 0
          16 September 2012 22: 20
          Quote: V. Salama
          With all due respect, this is a weak argument - the analogy is not adequate for the expected situations.

          - then I will remind you about the 18th century of Russia and palace coups with the help of the Life Guards, about the accession of Khrushchev, about the execution of the "White House", about the coups of black colonels in Greece, Pinochet, etc. - not an adequate understanding of reality ?? Well yes! And if we take into account the hunting weapons that citizens already have (and even rifled and semi-automatic and with optics), then the appearance of a part of the same citizens also has a short-barrel is no danger to the authorities !!
          Quote: V. Salama
          Here's a clear attempt at manipulating the mind:

          - completely wrong! They did not even try to do what I suggested, even in a draft to think over the draft of their law. Who is allowed to own, who under no circumstances? Make such a list and you will think, there are very few suitable ones. And if you simplify the law, won't you yourself be afraid? If it is possible to deal with this point, then further the problem of formalizing the conditions for the use of weapons. Further - storage conditions, exceptions to falling into the wrong hands, the responsibility of the owner. Further - the presence of weapons in crowded places (for example, in restaurants), in guarded offices, in a guarded territory, the conditions for transferring weapons for temporary storage (rooms must be created in all offices? Do not leave your car in the glove compartment!). There are many questions. If everything is spelled out in detail, then the law will be for the "elite", few will want or will be able to fulfill all the requirements. Then the way out is to simplify the law? Are you sure that life will become more fun for us?
          1. 0
            18 September 2012 12: 47
            Quote: Kite
            ... then I will remind you about the 18th century of Russia and palace coups with the help of the Life Guards, about the accession of Khrushchev, about the execution of the "white house", about the coups of black colonels in Greece, Pinochet, etc. - not an adequate understanding of reality ??
            In this case, the people have nothing to do with it, this is all "the struggle of the Nanai boys" - the struggle of power for power using the weapons of the corresponding institutions of power. Also, we are talking a little about different things. There is an opinion that one of our main troubles is the centuries-old deprivation of a common man of his sense of human dignity, the formation of the psychology of a slave in him, this continues intensively even now - any bureaucrat (I mean this power in the first place), blatantly creating lawless , satanes with impunity. The presence of weapons already raises a person's status, and not every "coward in the triumph of administrative delight" dares to humiliate him. Without this, it is impossible to form such a personality quality as "citizenship" in modern society.
            Quote: Kite
            Make such a list and think about how fit it is just a little.
            Weapons are harmful to useless, we would be able to protect and not turn into worthless anti-social policies. There is a problem if by unfit we mean politically disloyal. In short, there shouldn’t be any problems in a state of law, since law is the will of the people, drawn up in the form of law. In this case, I will agree with the law.
            Quote: Kite
            Further - storage conditions .... - the presence of weapons in crowded places (for example, in restaurants), ..... There are many questions. ... few people want or can fulfill all the requirements

            All in a bunch. The user is responsible - predict situations, no conditions - keep in a home safe. If you don’t want to fulfill the requirements, then you don’t see the need for weapons.
            Quote: Kite
            Then the way out is to simplify the law?

            It’s easier to do than it is now under the terms of acquisition, storage and wearing, it does not make sense and is not supposed, I think. All this is already extremely registered on traumatism. The problem, I think, is different, but this is a separate and long conversation.
            1. -1
              19 September 2012 20: 41
              From what assumptions our dialogue began, it’s not difficult to remember, everything is on one page and laid out in a row, not fragmented, so I don’t want to interpret my arguments anymore.
              Quote: V. Salama
              There is an opinion that one of our main troubles is the centuries-old deprivation of a simple person of a sense of human dignity, the formation of a slave’s psychology in him, this is still going on intensively

              - spit on this opinion, this is the opinion of a fool!

              Quote: V. Salama
              The presence of weapons already raises the status of a person

              - "northern white fluffy animal", there is nothing more to say to such a statement! A monkey with a grenade for an akdemika will come off ?? !! (following your statement).
              And yet, where do you get such an overstated conceit that you will be able to fulfill the requirements for a potential owner of short-range combat weapons?
              1. 0
                20 September 2012 12: 01
                Quote: Kite
                ...- spit on this opinion, this is the opinion of a fool!

                Good argument. The main thing is universal. It will be necessary to record.

                Quote: Kite
                ... A monkey with a grenade will go down for an acdemic ?? !!

                Yes, I saw the crying "academicians" at whom the "monkeys with grenades" mocked. "You are not hungry, you can see, judge the situation from the position of your own stomach." The binge of "administrative delight" will definitely decrease.

                Quote: Kite
                And yet, where do you get such an overstated conceit that you will be able to fulfill the requirements for a potential owner of short-range combat weapons?

                We judge the best and worst qualities in people first of all by ourselves. And how can I be dishonest if they are being honest with me? However, the concepts of honesty and justice can be understood in different ways. If we share the same positions with the state in this regard, then there will be no problems. Objectively, there will be fewer problems among legal owners of a short-barreled gun than with traumatics, if the requirements for admission to this type of weapon remain no lower than for traumatics (a police colonel who shot a roller driver with a rubber barrel would use military weapons in a situation where the use of any type of weapon was unnecessary? .. etc.). Do we have so many trauma problems? Considering the main goals of short-barreled introduction (to get super profit, to replenish the budget), this process will be extremely gradual, for “ordinary” people it will be extremely inaccessible and, therefore, quite manageable.
                1. 0
                  22 September 2012 09: 54
                  Quote: V. Salama
                  this process will be extremely gradual, for "ordinary" people - extremely inaccessible

                  - well, you expressed in other words the same idea that I wrote earlier. What are they "fighting" for, what are the local very hot guys trying to achieve?
                  Quote: V. Salama
                  The binge of "administrative enthusiasm" will definitely decrease.

                  “Do you think that in my life I never had to go to bureaucratic offices?” What happens, it happens that you can live more than half a century and not come in contact with different services and people? But what you write is frightening precisely because there are such mental stores that allow / see the solution of everyday problems with weapons.
                  Can you assume that, in a flash of anger, a visitor will shoot an elderly man / woman / "some girl" sitting at the table opposite? Or will he coolly ponder a plan of action and a place for revenge? Watch your thoughts! By the way, here is the topic of continuing to think about the draft law - how to formalize the rules and conditions for the use of weapons, so that later in court there are no idiotic "excuses", such as ".. he scared me / pissed me off and I ...."Or" ... it seemed to me ... and I ...".
                  And the opinion that the mentality of our people is slave - I repeat - the opinion of an evil moron
                  1. +1
                    22 September 2012 20: 44
                    Indeed, "truth spoken out loud is a lie." The problem is multidimensional, and from whatever end you do not disassemble, it is still very far from the holistic perception. It turns out that we do not understand the basis of our contradiction and, by the way, almost in your words I expressed a different idea. You cannot write everything and all situations, I will try to define my position with several statements:
                    - street crime is not a problem, it is a side effect of our social structure. I am more annoyed by crime of a different kind and future trends;
                    - I do not consider myself a "hot guy", for me a hunting ticket, to some extent more valuable than a passport, is a citizen's certificate. The opportunity itself is important to me, and as far as the state turns out to be two-faced, this will be the attitude towards it;
                    “If I get angry and use a weapon against an overbearing bureaucrat, then I’m a psychopath and a criminal and no excuses are irrelevant here, so there’s nothing to consider here for the draft law. However, I believe that the attitude of the authorities towards people will inevitably change;
                    - if, with the legitimate protection of my legal rights, a corrupt investigator, with a thoroughly corrupt law enforcement system of a constituent entity of the Russian Federation (so there is nowhere to look for protection), declares that if I challenge his illegal decision, then they will make me "anyone ... ", I understand perfectly well that I am either in" terpily "or there is no difference ... so at least worthy. Even in the Torah it is written "if you are sure that they came to kill you - .... first".
                    Quote: Kite
                    And the opinion that the mentality of our people is slave - I repeat - the opinion of an evil moron

                    The Mongol-Khan model of Muscovite government has played an educational role, there's nothing to be done. How to confirm? For example: in one of his interviews with the Communist Party, S. Govorukhin said that if the Europeans treated the authorities in the same way as with the Russian people, then any respectable and law-abiding German would have taken the knife for a long time and went all ... left and right.
                    1. 0
                      22 September 2012 22: 14
                      The poet wrote ".... a thought spoken, there is a lie ...", a thought, but not the truth. A person thinks in images, representations, but expresses thought in words, correspondence is not always unambiguous, understanding occurs in the reverse order, and this is a lie. But how do you persistently repeat about personal showdowns with representatives of the authorities with the help of a short-barrel - ??? (and what prevents you from dealing with the investigator using a carbine with optics, a bomb from improvised means, or do you want to have a cinematic conversation with the "sentenced" under the barrel? wassat In the office, they will definitely not let you in with the barrel)
                      If Govorukhin had known then what rules the life of the Germans is surrounded by and they endure everything, they have even got used to it for a long time and consider it natural, then I would not have cited them as an example. We would have tried to lead their rules and would have immediately received a "bloody and senseless rebellion"
                      1. 0
                        23 September 2012 15: 06
                        Quote: Kite
                        The poet wrote ".... a thought spoken, there is a lie ...", a thought, but not the truth.
                        In the original, not "thought" but "truth". The poet paraphrased the philosopher. Reality is so multifaceted and infinite in the variety of its manifestations that any attempt to define it distorts it, puts it in a bed that is not characteristic of it. Therefore, it is impossible to give (there is even no point in trying to do this) a complete definition of any concept. Any definition (model) is only a reflection in the object of the essential from the position of the researcher.
                        Quote: Kite
                        But how do you persistently repeat about personal showdowns with representatives of the authorities with the help of a short barrel - ???
                        It's strange that you understood me that way, don't you want to think? The point is that some receive only an additional opportunity to respond to evil, while others receive an additional opportunity to receive in response to the evil being committed, and only this opportunity is a powerful self-regulator in society. This is because for you personally, as for any subject of a controlled subsystem of society, protection is the prevention or maximum possible reduction of damage in a dangerous situation. And the subjects of the control subsystem under protection (and this is objective, otherwise they are not managers) understand the active search and elimination of potential threats and dangers. Therefore, with the advent of these new opportunities, they will already feel unprotected (and they feel it subtly), which will bring us closer to the required result - the rule of law. In short, "any danger requires respect, and the instinct of self-preservation is the main regulator of behavior", "freedom to get the necessary opportunity does not mean the obligation to implement it, but this freedom" could be limited to these slogans.
                        Regarding Govorukhin ... God bless him, any examples and authorities do not impress you. Find an opportunity to talk with the Chechens about what they, in us, Russians, do not understand. Here I guarantee surprise. I think that a large part of the male population of the Caucasian peoples have a similar opinion.
                  2. +1
                    22 September 2012 22: 29
                    Quote: Kite
                    Can you assume that, in a flash of anger, a visitor will shoot an elderly man / woman / "some girl" sitting at the table opposite?
                    And they did not think about the fact that the very probability of such a situation would rule it out, the boor would just be afraid to be rude.
                    1. 0
                      23 September 2012 09: 41
                      Quote: arkady149
                      the very probability of such a situation will rule it out, the boor is simply afraid to be rude.
                      - agreed to insanity, started with self-defense in dangerous situations, and we conclude with hope for an educational action. fellow Or maybe it will be the boor and the first to start firing? This is more likely.
                      And you do not know that representatives of high society (seemingly intelligent, cultured people) scandalized, quarreled and fought in duels? (oh, how noble and romantic laughing ) Ordinary people, who did not have the right to weapons, simply smashed whips.
                      1. 0
                        23 September 2012 15: 34
                        Quote: Kite
                        ... agreed to insanity, started with self-defense in dangerous situations, and we conclude with hope for an educational action.
                        A person is brought up from the moment of his conception to the end of his life, under the influence of various factors. "Life is the best educator." One of the definitions of the concept of what upbringing is (as we already know - it cannot be exhaustive) is "the activity of the educator to form the qualities of the educated person, in accordance with the goals of the educator." "The best fight is the one that ended before it started." Power educates us. According to modern political science textbooks, one of the functions of political power is intimidation. All of us, as consumers of such a service as "public administration", have the right to assess its quality and, naturally, educate power by legal methods (according to the Constitution, "the only source of power in the Russian Federation is the people") - everything is logical, in my opinion. We just want to create conditions that do not allow us to wipe our feet, and only declare our concern for the people. There are also other models of management and relationships with the authorities.
                        Quote: Kite
                        Ordinary people, who did not have the right to weapons, were simply whipped with whips.
                        "Water does not flow under a lying stone. Those who just wait will not get anything good." This is where everything goes, and soon all sorts of Cossacks and religious armies will start beating us with whips. Slaves are always treated accordingly.
                      2. 0
                        23 September 2012 16: 10
                        Yes, I almost forgot ....
                        Quote: Kite
                        And you do not know that representatives of high society (seemingly intelligent, cultured people) scandalized, quarreled and fought in duels? (
                        Probably everyone knows this, but we are not "representatives of high society", but representatives of modern society (possibly individual) and we also know that the highest value in society is human life and health. By the way, according to the WHO definition, a person is considered sick not if he has a disease, but if he has a feeling of discomfort (this is me for thinking about other indicators of a person's quality of life).
                      3. 0
                        23 September 2012 18: 34
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        Power educates us

                        - Yes, you are stuck in the opposition to the authorities! Try not to wait for the good from the distraction, but to live an ordinary life on your own. Your struggle for universal happiness makes me very much to doubt the positive results! Each comment has one thing: the desire to deal with the officials "interfering with life". Can introspection still help you or not? Is your discomfort a symptom of what disease? I don’t want to hurt the patient, but in a stressful situation I tell myself: “Stop, don’t lose control over yourself, in the madhouse, maybe it’s fun, but let them frolic without me for now.”
                      4. 0
                        23 September 2012 20: 33
                        Quote: Kite
                        - Yes, you stuck on the confrontation of power! Try not to wait on the abstraction of benefits, but to live an ordinary life on your own.
                        I can't get it, what's the problem? You are "against", I am "for", trying to argue my position. Here you seem to be jammed. Why did they decide that I expect benefits from the government? - Who were you talking to now?
                        Quote: Kite
                        Each comment has one thing: the desire to deal with the officials "interfering with life".
                        Yes, on the navel dodged to save you from this obsessive thought.
                        "Power educates us" - have I lied here, is this my speculation or a scientific position?
                        Quote: Kite
                        Is your discomfort a symptom of a disease?

                        What did you mean? I was referring to indicators of quality of life, and not my condition. It is clear that introspection will not help you personally.
                        Quote: Kite
                        Stop, don't lose control of yourself
                        But I recommend it. More often, in front of a mirror ...
                      5. 0
                        24 September 2012 09: 53
                        1. Why should I recommend my own practical experience?
                        2. You have defined the disease as a feeling of discomfort, and have repeated in almost all of your comments about the cause of personal discomfort.
                        3. The topic of owning a short-barrel for self-defense you have led away in the direction of "global" confrontation with people performing public service. You still don’t want to admit that this is not constructive on your part, for your opponents it does not pose a greater danger than it may be now. Nobody is going to deprive them of the same right to self-defense.
                        4. The advertising slogan "God created people different, and Colonel Colt equaled them all" - utter nonsense! Colt increased the physical capabilities of rednecks and reduced the value of reason in ensuring the survival of people in society, the bloody war became continuous and not at the interstate level, but at the household level. Is it really so difficult to understand that with the availability of a short-barrel, the first to use it is the one who, to put it mildly, is more rude, is less educated? A "law" in which only you are given the right to a weapon is not a law at all.
                        Has our dispute already bothered you? Are your arms reaching for a holster? Read the last lines of your last comment.
                      6. -1
                        24 September 2012 20: 42
                        Our dispute cannot get me in principle, but there are things that surprise me in it, as well as those that I could not help reacting to properly, these are:
                        1. your lack of credibility in the arguments and often even the absence of arguments, as such, unwillingness to get away from the five dogmas that make up the foundation of your beliefs, which I will formulate by generalizing as follows (correct if it was inaccurate / incomplete): a) if you buy a gun it means conceived the evil; b) if you didn’t even plan to — you can, on occasion, freak out and shoot, and it’s said - the gun itself shoots once a year; c) weapons are evil; d) a normal person does not need a short barrel under any circumstances; e) if the short-barrel is resolved, people will not cope with the burden of problems in its safe operation, guns will take possession of psychos and do business.
                        At the same time, you are not even trying to make attempts to confirm the dogma of your beliefs.
                        2. unwillingness to comprehend my arguments, which leads to a lack of dialogue logic;
                        3. The desire to see what is not in my arguments (treat the text literally, if you don't understand the thought, ask again), as well as attempts to distort and defamation;
                        4. a clear lie, provocation and the desire to hang on me their complexes. In particular, in response to the latter, I decided to recommend your own experience to you.
                        Any of the statements presented here is ready to prove, if it will be interesting, based on the analysis of our writings.
                      7. +1
                        25 September 2012 09: 17
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        your lack of credibility in the arguments

                        - and the arguments are presented clearly, and most importantly - he invited everyone to think more thoroughly, over the whole complex of issues of short-barreled ownership. Your answer is "all in a heap". To explain the solution of problems, I prefer to cite a series of sequential questions, an independent logical conclusion is more useful, it keeps better in memory than a theorem formulated by someone. (not your method?)
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        if you buy a gun - it means that he planned

                        - Your speculation. I am amazed at your saying: "The presence of weapons already increases status man ". From what time such representations:" The presence of horns / fangs / claws / shell / powerful tail - increases the status of the enemy "-? Well, if everyone begins to wear horns, then I may have to. But why did they complicate everything so much own life?
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        if you didn’t even plan to - you can, on occasion, freak out and shoot

                        - If you are a reasonable and responsible person, you can list the conditions and situations, anticipating which, leave the weapon at home. And I mentioned these situations partially, suggesting the others to clarify the list. (again not your method?) Ah, yes, you wrote:
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        All in a bunch. User is responsible

                        but they didn’t want to mention when and how the responsibility of the individual (before / after and generally ability) should be determined.
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        weapons are evil
                        - if you answer briefly, how the question is asked - yes evil! Who will say that good?
                        A normal person needs a weapon when performing the functions of protecting fellow citizens, in a everyday situation a normal ordinary citizen will not use weapons first, will not even demonstrate it.
                        Complexity you mentioned in vain, in this you "educator" yourself completely lit up.
                      8. 0
                        25 September 2012 12: 19
                        PS:
                        On yours: "Find an opportunity to talk to the Chechens about what they do not understand about us Russians. I guarantee surprise here. I think that most of the representatives of the male population of the Caucasian peoples have a similar opinion. "
                        - very "status authorities" were among them, but they ended badly, they are no longer there. Weird tip for finding a sample!
                      9. 0
                        25 September 2012 21: 17
                        If someone despises me, then usually I should know why, and if I don’t know why (which looks rather strange), then regardless of whether the person who despises me is pleasant or not, it’s reasonable to find out the reason and make findings.
                      10. 0
                        25 September 2012 20: 47
                        Is gun evil? A weapon is just a tool, and any tool cannot be endowed with qualities such as "good and evil," it is simply not scientific. Therefore, anyone who says good or evil, to say the least, is not the point.
                        Quote: Kite
                        A normal person needs a weapon when performing the functions of protecting fellow citizens, in a everyday situation a normal ordinary citizen will not use weapons first, will not even demonstrate it.
                        Why repeat the platitudes, I did not deny this or substantiate thoughts that contradict this statement. This is not the topic.

                        “If you buy a gun, it means you’ve conceived the evil” - is that my speculation? Again, you do not want to delve into the text written in Russian in white. I wrote that I formulate this as a “generalization” of your position (there is such a logical operation in order to shorten the text), therefore you could not say that. For example: if it says “spruce”, “pine”, “cedar”, then the generalization is “coniferous tree”, if it also lists deciduous trees (maple, birch, oak), then the concept denoted by the term “tree” will generalize ". And I asked to correct me, if not accurate, and again you are oppressing yours, considering this an argument.

                        I am amazed at your dictum: "The presence of weapons already increases the status of a person." From what time period such representations: "The presence of horns / fangs / claws / shell / powerful tail - increases the status of the enemy" -? Well, if everyone starts wearing horns, then maybe I will have to. But why did everyone complicate their lives so much?
                        Your statement is a juggling that gives you reason to suspect you either in cunning or in the absence of logical thinking skills. The presence of horns at all times increases the status of the enemy from the level when his horns have not yet grown - this is an axiom. And no one personally offers you to wear them, since the subject of discussion is not “opponents”, but the citizen’s needs to ensure their own security - “protection”. It is a pity that you did not understand this concept, also ignoring it.

                        “If you haven’t even planned, you can, on the occasion, freak out and shoot”
                        If I read my text thoughtfully, then I should either agree with this statement or not. Comments were not intended here. And what does “again not your method” have to do with it?


                        but they didn’t want to mention when and how the responsibility of the individual (before / after and generally ability) should be determined.
                        A strange desire or question. Responsibility occurs in case of violation of the norms established by law, where the main thing is the damage. Neither before nor after, but right away - as he violated, from that moment you bear the burden of responsibility. If by “responsibility” we mean a special type of coercion (legal), then it is determined by a decision of the Court. And “ability in general” is “the quality of something” is not a topic at all.
                        By the way, the fact that my last comment is minusanuli says a lot, that they are treating me dishonestly, the argument uses unacceptable tricks, which, in fact, I talked about in it. The fact that there really are no arguments, that is, confirm it. Why minus? I did not insult anyone, formulated that I considered it necessary and clearly wrote that I can prove any of my statements, if you doubt it - just say so, stick a finger at the line and specifically speculate. And then a quiet glander minusanuli and no greetings or answers. The content of the commentary refers only to the issue of our mutual understanding, and not to the subject of discussion. You have strange supporters, not some logical ones. Well, you again in your role.
                      11. -1
                        25 September 2012 21: 15
                        Is gun evil? A weapon is just a tool, and any tool cannot be endowed with qualities such as "good and evil," it is simply not scientific. Therefore, anyone who says good or evil, to say the least, is not the point.
                        Quote: Kite
                        A normal person needs a weapon when performing the functions of protecting fellow citizens, in a everyday situation a normal ordinary citizen will not use weapons first, will not even demonstrate it.
                        Why repeat the platitudes, I did not deny this or substantiate thoughts that contradict this statement. This is not the topic.
                        Quote: Kite
                        Complexity you mentioned in vain, in this you "educator" yourself completely lit up.
                        I do not see a logical connection and arguments. If you do not agree, I can give a reasoned justification, I wrote about this.
                        “If you buy a gun, it means you’ve conceived the evil” - is that my speculation? Again, you do not want to delve into the text written in Russian in white. I wrote that I formulate this as a “generalization” of your position (there is such a logical operation in order to shorten the text), therefore you could not say that. For example: if it says “spruce”, “pine”, “cedar”, then the generalization is “coniferous tree”, if it also lists deciduous trees (maple, birch, oak), then the concept denoted by the term “tree” will generalize ". And I asked to correct me, if not accurate, and again you are oppressing yours, considering this an argument.
                        Your statement is a juggling that gives you reason to suspect you either in cunning or in the absence of logical thinking skills. The presence of horns at all times increases the status of the enemy from the level when his horns have not yet grown - this is an axiom. And no one personally offers you to wear them, since the subject of discussion is not “opponents”, but the citizen’s needs to ensure their own security - “protection”. It is a pity that you did not understand this concept, also ignoring it.

                        “If you haven’t even planned, you can, on the occasion, freak out and shoot”
                        If I read my text thoughtfully, then I should either agree with this statement or not. Comments were not intended here. And what does “again not your method” have to do with it?
                        Quote: Kite
                        but they didn’t want to mention when and how the responsibility of the individual (before / after and generally ability) should be determined.
                        A strange desire or question. Responsibility occurs in case of violation of the norms established by law, where the main thing is the damage. Neither before nor after, but right away - as he violated, from that moment you bear the burden of responsibility. If by “responsibility” we mean a special type of coercion (legal), then it is determined by a decision of the Court. And “ability in general” is “the quality of something” is not a topic at all.
                        By the way, the fact that my last comment is minusanuli says a lot, that they are treating me dishonestly, the argument uses unacceptable tricks, which, in fact, I talked about in it. The fact that there really are no arguments, that is, confirm it. Why minus? I did not insult anyone, formulated that I considered it necessary and clearly wrote that I can prove any of my statements, if you doubt it - just say so, stick a finger at the line and specifically speculate. And then a quiet glander minusanuli and no greetings or answers. The content of the commentary refers only to the issue of our mutual understanding, and not to the subject of discussion. You have strange supporters, not some logical ones. Well, you again in your role.
                      12. 0
                        28 September 2012 09: 32
                        As they asked about the weapon, he answered, read and understand what was written.
                        About the inferiority complex (infringement of rights and the intention to fight for them by extremist methods, about the elevation (status) of an armed humanoid, about a reverent attitude to a gun certificate, more than a document of a citizen of the country (by the way, I don’t care about any identification papers, because I I’m not going to prove my status to anyone, it’s just enough for me to be aware of myself) - isn’t it enough?
                        Be cunning, under the pretext of generalizations "tree, forest, needles"
                        And finally:
                        The law has not yet been spelled out, responsibility for violation of norms must still be foreseen, which is why I suggested thinking about when responsibility comes (before application or after, how to determine who is responsible, in the sense of capable). A lot of cases of drunkenness behind the wheel do not suggest an analogy to you? What to do with a person if he, knowing that a friendly meeting in a tavern is to come in the evening, took his short-barrel with him in the morning? (it seems that he has not done anything yet, like a drunk driving, maybe he will get home without "adventures")
                      13. 0
                        28 September 2012 16: 13
                        The answer was understood, everyone has the right to their opinion. I do not agree with the accusation of deceit; there wasn’t such in my thoughts. It is a pity that the normal conversation did not work out. I still do not understand why my justifications are understood so distortedly and even as extremist. And I was not the first to begin to get personal from the issue under discussion.
  46. 0
    7 January 2019 07: 07
    The author of the article is TRYNDOBOL! wink
    He showed an advertisement for a weapon ... but the fact that the purchase required a "note from the policeman" (about reliability), or permission from the Governor himself, is somehow modestly silent .. laughing
    And I'm not very sure that Mr. Gorodov, or His Excellency the Governor, to any cattle .. these pieces of paper (permission), signed left and right ... So, the availability of weapons in the Russian Empire among the average population - si-and-and- exaggerated!
    Dot...