The lead submarine of project 677 "Lada" entered the combat strength of the Russian fleet

The lead submarine of project 677 "St. Petersburg" became part of the Russian fleet as a full-fledged combat unit. The trial operation of the first "Lada", which lasted more than 10 years, has been completed.

As the RIA News with reference to Andrey Baranov, Deputy Director General of the Rubin Central Design Bureau of Marine Engineering, the submarine acceptance certificate was signed, the submarine became part of the Russian Navy. True, he did not specify in which fleet, but since 2010, "St. Petersburg" was in trial operation in the Northern Fleet.

The diesel-electric submarine Saint Petersburg was laid down at the Admiralty Shipyards in 1997, launched in 2004. The project generally "went with a creak" and was repeatedly stopped due to lack of funding and fixing design flaws. In total, the series included three "Ladas" - the head "St. Petersburg", the first and second serial - "Kronstadt" and "Velikiye Luki".

Serial submarines should enter the fleet in 2022. It is noted that, unlike the lead sub, which is armed only with mines and torpedoes, the serial Lada received Caliber cruise missiles. In addition, both submarines are equipped with a new, more powerful and quieter electric motor.

The delay in the construction of the Lada submarines is lagging behind due to changes in the design, as well as due to problems with one of the equipment suppliers. Earlier it was reported about plans to equip these submarines with an air-independent (anaerobic) installation, however, it has not yet been possible to create a VNEU (at least the creation of the installation has not been officially announced).

According to the head of the USC, Alexei Rakhmanov, problems with the Lada project led to the decision to build six Varshavyankas for the Pacific Fleet, although initially it was Lada with VNEU that were planned for the Far East.

Comments

[Bashkirkhan]

VNEU never appeared on this submarine. The ten-year (!) Trial operation of the B-585 is over, everyone can draw conclusions himself.

[Orange bigg]

All the same, we have brought to mind the 677 project. And what news about VNEU? Who knows? When will they be born?

... Project 677 Lada, the lead non-nuclear submarine Saint Petersburg, has completed trial operation and has become a full-fledged combat unit in the Navy, said Andrei Baranov, deputy general director of the Rubin Central Design Bureau of Marine Engineering.

The head Lada - Saint Petersburg - has successfully completed a trial operation program. The corresponding final act has been approved by the Navy, ”RIA Novosti reports the words of Baranov.

Earlier, the head of the United Shipbuilding Corporation, Alexei Rakhmanov, said that the serial construction of two diesel-electric submarines of the fourth generation of Project 677 Lada is lagging behind due to problems with one of the equipment suppliers.

Recall that in March, Russian Navy Commander-in-Chief Admiral Nikolai Evmenov announced that the Russian submarine fleet would soon be supplemented by two improved diesel-electric submarines (diesel-electric submarines) Velikie Luki and Kronstadt of Project 677 Lada.

https://m.vz.ru/news/2021/9/21/1120086.html

Bad news.

... MOSCOW, September 22 - RIA Novosti. In the Khabarovsk Territory, the An-26 aircraft stopped communicating, the emergency services of the region told RIA Novosti.
There are six people on board.
There are no other details yet.

https://ria.ru/20210922/an-26-1751279069.html

[g1v2]

Now only this lead submarine is being upgraded to the level of the first serial submarine - Kronstadt. PM she is not in service temporarily.
Well, about AN26 - this is unfortunately inevitable. AN 24 and AN 26 are old as shit of a mammoth. Their average age, as far as I remember, is 40 years. And until they come to the airlines and government agencies, Il 112 and Il114, will pour in. If il114, in theory, will only slightly shift to the right, and that is not a fact, then il112 will obviously seriously leave again. After the catastrophe of the lead aircraft and the absence of at least the first serial aircraft on tests, no one will be able to speed up the process. Tch an26 will definitely have to fly for a few more years. And the problems with their wear will not go anywhere. Alas.

[Orange bigg]

God grant that the IL-112V and IL-114-300 will go into production faster. The issue of overweight Il-112V was resolved based on the quotation below.

... Problems with the overweight of the Il-112V light military transport aircraft due to the too heavy structure have been resolved, Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov said at the Tyumen Oil and Gas Forum. His words are quoted by RIA Novosti.

“You are probably aware that the first developments of the aircraft did not meet the requirements of the terms of reference for carrying capacity. He had to carry at least five tons, but could not, because he was overweight. UAC launched additional work, thanks to which we achieved the customer's requirements, ”he said.

On July 5 of this year, during a meeting at the Voronezh aircraft plant, Yuri Borisov said that the IL-112V LVTS does not yet meet the technical specifications of the RF Ministry of Defense, on the third aircraft the plant should ensure that the characteristics specified by the customer are achieved, however, VASO has not yet had its obligations to the Ministry of Defense in this regard. fulfilled. "Until you confirm the flight performance of the Il-112, it is pointless to talk about serial contracts," the Deputy Prime Minister emphasized at the time.

Also, according to him, the TV7-117ST / -01 engine, which the Il-112V and Il-114-300 aircraft are equipped with, will not be replaced with an imported one. Rumors about this went after the plane crash of the first prototype of the Il-112V in the Moscow region. Then the right engine of the car caught fire and it collapsed into the forest.

“Regarding the replacement - this will not happen,” the Deputy Prime Minister dispelled the rumors. “I believe that the TV7-117ST engine needs to be brought up to a working condition that will meet the requirements of a new light transport aircraft.”

The start of serial production of the IL-112V LVTS was planned for 2023. “But this tragedy, of course, will make its own adjustments. There will be a shift to the right. I don’t know how much, but we will minimize it, ”he explained, adding that the plane crash“ will slow down the launch of this aircraft on the market ”.

https://aviation21.ru/yu-borisov-vopros-s-peretyazheleniem-samolyota-il-112v-reshyon/

[g1v2]

I read that too. The question is different - how is this weight issue resolved? Here the aileron thrust collapsed at a temperature lower than that for which it was designed. Is it because it coincided, marriage or because it was made a little thinner for weight loss? But 2 fire extinguishers in the wing, and not 6 like in large silts - was it considered that this would be enough for the project initially or because they made it easier for everything? Here there are a lot of questions, and until the plane goes into production, having passed all the tests, they will remain.

[bk316]

AN 24 and AN 26 are old as shit of a mammoth.

I quite often fly on 24, where other planes do not fly.
It's scary to look at them honestly. I understand that the plane is flying while the certificate is being extended. But it's scary at my age to fly on a plane that is older than me.

[alexmach]

This year I had the opportunity to fly a 50-year-old AN-24 ... It was one of the oldest operated passenger aircraft in Ukraine, and the most convenient option for me ... I thought, thought and went by train instead. I slept a couple of hours less at night, drove a couple of hours longer, but with a calm heart :)

[Orange bigg]

Quote: bk316

AN 24 and AN 26 are old as shit of a mammoth.

I quite often fly on 24, where other planes do not fly.
It's scary to look at them honestly. I understand that the plane is flying while the certificate is being extended. But it's scary at my age to fly on a plane that is older than me.

You need to insure yourself like that. For example, issue a parachute to each of the passengers. No kidding. It's so dumb to fly.

[bk316]

You need to insure yourself like that.

It must be done somehow.

but with a calm heart :)

Want my experience?
At least 2 times a year, I go skiing from Moscow to Krasnaya Polyana with my family.
Two rules.
1. If time permits, then by train.
2. The whole family should not board the same plane.
3. Do not fly companies with old aircraft.

[swzero]

Well, B-52s fly and are going to fly for another 10 years. Another thing is that our climate is different, of course, temperature drops are all that. Well, the strategist also has fewer take-off-landing cycles - probably less wear due to this - in flight the load is less than during takeoff and landing. And, of course, the dashing 90s probably crippled the resource greatly - then the planes, due to the devastation and lack of money, did not receive normal service for years.

[knn54]

Okay VNEU. When will the Liotech plant make LIABs for submarines (and not only)?
For 10 years the next project of "Rusnano"

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: knn54

When will the Liotech plant make LIABs for submarines (and not only)?

And should?
He seems to be making Chinese batteries for Chinese trolleybuses, but he is not designed for more.

[hrych]

Quote: knn54

LIABs

Is this a great problem? If there is expediency, then they will deliver. A question of necessity and price. For what Lada was created, it has enough ordinary batteries, moreover, the Caliber nomenclature, again makes it a missile carrier, capable, like Varshavyanka. work from your PKO zone.

[Bashkirkhan]

Quote: hrych

LIABs

Is this a great problem? If there is expediency, then they will deliver. A question of necessity and price.

Count up, LIABs are a serious problem. Which has not yet been decided. It's not urrya to scream from the couch.

[hrych]

When you write comments, especially with such a thoughtful look, you need to be at least a little in the subject. If we already stuttered about VNEU, then according to the project of the submarine Kalina. Or rather, not even a project, but a statement of intent, i.e. nothing. And then, according to Kalina, they rather talked about lithium batteries. And if he gave a hint about Lada, then besides anti-submarine capabilities, on this platform, the UVP for the Kyrgyz Republic was considered, and not at all VNEU.

Quote: Bashkirkhan

It's not urrya to scream from the couch.

Why are you shouting from your couch? How do daishakas bleat? Russia slaps nuclear submarines like cakes, wonderful and proven Varshavyanka women like cheesecakes. Duc is now a missile carrier. They have provided the Black Sea Fleet, now the Pacific Fleet is being rearmed. Russia can afford to guard the diesel-electric submarines near the border, and have Yaseny, Antei, Shchuk-B and some titanium ones for the long-range ones. Well, a galaxy of Poseidon carriers is being built. Therefore, it's time for the patriots to shout Hurray, and you sob from powerlessness

[Bashkirkhan]

Quote: hrych

Russia slaps nuclear submarines like cakes, wonderful and proven Varshavyanka women like cheesecakes. Duc is now a missile carrier.

The 636s have a half-century-old energy level - there is not enough electricity (plus questions with the place necessary for placing the equipment).
636.3 without on-board antennas, without GPBA as part of the SAC, with the good old cylindrical antenna with an acoustic part as in the 877's. We will not go into details, but with an old screw, and let's say so far from a new electro-mechanical part. And I'm not talking about all the hackneyed questions from VNEU and AB, and a similar list can be continued far. By and large, even with the RC and the advanced REV, these submarines in the XNUMXst century can be safely called partly submarine, rather diving boats - the "Warsaw" and its derivatives have long become obsolete. The rest you have a stream of delirium, I will not even waste time.

[hrych]

How could our strategists not ask the wise Bashkirkhan how to organize the defense? Don't talk about VNEU, you can feel Kilo in knowledge. Ours immediately announced. that Stirling's dvigun will never do. Did they stutter about the reforming of the diesel engine? But not more. No, Bashkirkhan came and announced the rule of what they were not going to do Varshavyanka was armed with Calibers, all lines of Calibers. from missile torpedoes, anti-ship missiles to long-range, nuclear ones. Everything, it's time to turn on the brain, that the entire application algorithm has completely changed. Fully. The philosophy of using diesel-electric submarines has changed, this is a missile carrier operating from its own waters, in second place is the anti-submarine defense of its own waters. And not with a torpedo, but with a rocket-torpedo to hit the enemy's boat. That's all, there is no need to sneak to the enemy's shores, climb into its PLO zone, etc. And the most important thing is that the underwater passage of Varshavyanka still allows you to go to Turkey on conventional batteries, complete the task and return back without getting up. Few? So this is now not relevant because of the new weapons.

Quote: Bashkirkhan

you have a stream of delirium

This is what you are more famous for. What are you talking about? How can you even assume that the boat was designed, built, tested, made even a small series, taking into service and type will be crammed into it VNEU This is engineering downism

[Boa kaa]

Quote: hrych

When you write comments, especially with such a thoughtful look, you need to be at least a little in the subject.

Hello old!
The remark is correct. But it applies even more to the author. For example, I don't understand how you can write this:

unlike the lead sub, which is armed with only mines and torpedoes, serial "Lada" received cruise missiles ...

It seems that the B-585 could carry anti-ship missiles (Ammunition - mines, 18 torpedoes (types SAET-60M, UGST and USET-80K), missiles-torpedoes "Shkval" and Anti-ship missiles "Turquoise" (Club-S), launched from torpedo tubes ) But the author is sure that the designers took a step back in the new project, depriving 677 of missile weapons.
Next. It is not entirely correct to say that the B-585 is equipped with

more powerful and less noisy electric motor.

But, the work went on fine-tuning the EDMS-1 to the nominal value, tk. it was taken into experimental operation with 60% of the shaft power, when the power plant kept the parameters up to 125 rpm, and then slipped into the pit ... There seemed to be no question of "low noise". 677 pr. At times quieter than 877,

but create VNEU failed yet

... It is not correct. There is a "Crystal-27", a coastal prototype - it works on TTZ, but it does not work inside the PC yet ... Therefore, not a fact.
On the further prospect pr 677D (revised). It is supposed to have one SLBM at the Northern Fleet (Polyarny) and at the Pacific Fleet (Kamchatka) with the task of PLO of PLA bases and operations in BMZ of fleets. Total - at least 12 units. If the money remains, then the BF and the Black Sea Fleet will receive something. But after all, the project 777A, which will be promised soon, is already on the way. And it will be cooler than the 677D.
Somehow, however. AHA.

[hrych]

Hello Wise It seems to me that all diesel-electric submarines projects will focus on the development of strike systems. The nomenclature of the Caliber is good, not to mention the ZM-14, especially the ZM-54 with a supersonic stage (all the best from subsonic CR, i.e. compactness-range and supersonic-low-altitude breakthrough), as well as anti-submarine ala Waterfall. And the Varshavyanka missile carrier has turned from obsolete into a promising one. And in fact, that determined the mass deliveries to the Black Sea Fleet, Pacific Fleet and Northern Fleet. But the temptation to equip diesel-electric submarines with hypersonic Zircon will be enormous for the General Staff. I am afraid (or not afraid) that it is the Lada project with universal VPUs that will receive a prospect, especially since the Lada is already in trial operation. If according to Kalina (and here experts are confused with Lada-Kalina ) only by 2025 are going to decide on a project, then they give up. that Lada with UVP still had the prospect of becoming the main diesel-electric submarine in Russia. There is one more attack on VNEU and LIB - the development of drones, ala Poseidon, Sarma, Harpsichord in the shock version, etc. With DMZ and Ash, everything is clear, in BMZ we have diving boats above the roof, but the line of defense between them and what they claimed all sorts of Japanese-Swedish projects. Perhaps they will give it to powerful drones. A kind of wolf pack, moving in a chain. those. back to the Future These devices are cheaper, their number can be increased quickly, their speed is superior, their depth does not rest on the problems of piloting, they can have suspended weapons, can be kamikaze, etc. And with megaton class SBS. They are able to work on the principle of a mine and wait for the client, they are able to work. as a torpedo and look for a client, capable of being a carrier of mines, and torpedoes and missile-torpedoes.

[antivirus]

if it was necessary, they would have done it already.

reporting is one thing. relations are different, but life is quite the fifth

[hrych]

But, we are doing nuclear reactors, but like this hat was not enough mind Zhist turns into tin ...

[antivirus]

different departments - one from the IVS and Beria, others from the hat departments and theater critics


.............................

...................
and the time of actions the lifetimes of ideas are different

[SVD68]

By the way, here is an article about the battery: "The Urals approached the creation of an effective battery for electric vehicles" (https://pulse.mail.ru/article/na-urale-priblizilis-k-sozdaniyu-effektivnoj-batarei-dlya-elektromobilej-2157844836469413649 -2537283030264968813 /).

[hrych]

So, you have concluded ... from the lantern This boat was created for anti-submarine defense, so it was made more compact than Varshavyanka, the sonar equipment was improved, and the power plant was as quiet as possible, even for an already quiet electric motor. Heresy about an air-independent installation, journalists and sofa experts began to carry. And it's complete nonsense to fight the noise of even a permanent magnet electric motor and at the same time block the noisy VNEU and leave significant surface anomalies. Whether it is when designing a boat, where the inner space is already maximally removed and the crew is reduced by one and a half times, there is free space for cryogenic installations and other heresies. So the legislators of VNEU, they refuse this crap in favor of lithium batteries. In particular, Japanese people. If you really need to, put lithium-ion batteries on the Lada and without changing the layout, get a multiple increase in the underwater stroke. Learn from the Japanese before jumping to conclusions

[Bashkirkhan]

Quote: hrych

If you really need to, put lithium-ion batteries on the Lada and without changing the layout, get a multiple increase in the underwater stroke.

Yeah, lithium-ion batteries were installed on Losharik, they caused a fire and the officers died.

[hrych]

Firstly, they did not report to you what happened there, and not what one grandmother told you. This is a secret boat, these are secret missions, and trust me, if the lithium batteries caught fire, there would be nothing left of the boat. And it is impossible to extinguish such a battery. And Losharik is a nuclear-powered ship. For your information. You can put a hole in the cell's battery and you will have an inspiration. Gloating over the death of submariners, even enemies do not allow themselves, but they allow such ... The boat did not die, and if there was a fire, then the operation of replacing oxygen with gases usually leads to death. But someone managed to raise the boat to the surface, so you better keep your mouth shut.

[Bashkirkhan]

Quote: hrych

This is a secret boat, these are secret missions, and trust me, if the lithium batteries caught fire, there would be nothing left of the boat. And it is impossible to extinguish such a battery. And Losharik is a nuclear-powered ship.

A Russian lithium-ion battery was installed on Losharik, he also used batteries in addition to a nuclear reactor.

[hrych]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

Russian lithium-ion battery installed on Losharik

Figured it out myself? Can you bring a proof with a neck?

[Bashkirkhan]

Quote: hrych

Can you bring a proof with a neck?

You can see the vulture in the zoo, they live there. As for the battery on Losharik, I will give a link to the authoritative bmpd blog:
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3702019.html

[hrych]

Proof is awesome. Fontanka.ru, and even for the authorship of the filibuster Julia Nikitina. It is clear who teaches you naval affairs. Didn't dig up anything better? Bashkirkhan - sofa student of Julia Nikitina Leave the fleet to our admirals and do something useful.

[Alex777]

Quote: hrych

If you really need to, put lithium-ion batteries on the Lada and without changing the layout, get a multiple increase in the underwater stroke.

EMNIP, the charging mode for lithium-ion batteries is very different.
On Japanese boats with LIAB, all internal electrics have been replaced with 400 V.

[barclay]

The project generally "went with a creak" and was repeatedly stopped due to ...
In general, in construction for the Navy, so far there is only one creak all around ... Ivan Gren has been soaked for 14 years. And here the picture is even more beautiful. As something new - this "creak" does not stop ...
PS: since 1997, we have not been able to make or copy VNEU ...

[Aag]

Quote: barclay

The project generally "went with a creak" and was repeatedly stopped due to ...
In general, in construction for the Navy, so far there is only one creak all around ... Ivan Gren has been soaked for 14 years. And here the picture is even more beautiful. As something new - this "creak" does not stop ...
PS: since 1997, we have not been able to make or copy VNEU ...

... Unfortunately, not only for the Navy (although, in fact, you are apparently right, -with the Fleet, it seems, it’s generally bad, based on the available information ((() ...
I don’t know how many years a documentary film about the fate of "Lada" has been shown on TV ... It is clear that during this time new types of weapons have appeared ("Caliber", for example, from the existing, announced, tested.), And the spectrum the task, perhaps, has partially changed ...
And then, suddenly, it turns out that only the head is part of the Fleet. (((
Excuse me, as a person not very much immersed in the topic (by the standards of this forum), it seemed to me that there are already a dozen of such boats (promoted in the media for a long time) in our Fleets, in spite of everything ...
And then ... Another "sadness" .... Especially against the background of the disappearance of "Ana", the Chinese, Indians on, and near the Moon, the returned steps of the Mask, American carrier-based drones of the United States; and domestic cinematography in space, the dominance of neighbors from the former Soviet Union, almost a week of summing up the election results ...
Those who believe that we are moving in the right way, kick it!

[75 Sergey]

Yes, VNEU is a tough nut to crack.
The solution to the problem is not possible without the development of higher educational institutions and educational laboratories.

[Al_lexx]

Quote: 75Sergey

Yes, VNEU is a tough nut to crack.
The solution to the problem is not possible without the development of higher educational institutions and educational laboratories.

The advantages of VNEU are not at all obvious. Launching air-independent diesels or Stirlings, from the point of view of acoustic imperceptibility, is no better than surfacing under a snorkel. Is that the tube sticks out above the surface.
Simply, it is precisely those who just cannot calm down about the "sivolapa rashka" or "damned Muscovites" who cannot do anything like to exaggerate this topic. Well, or just fools who don't want to think with their brains, but like parrots repeat other people's words.

Lithium batteries partly solve the problems of diesel-electric submarines. But there are risks. It's not a question of spending a lot of money and putting in lithium. But apparently the safety of our crews is higher than the underwater power reserve.

[75 Sergey]

So that's the plus, that you don't need to get up under the snorkel, the deeper - the less noticeable it seems.

[Al_lexx]

Quote: 75Sergey

So that's the plus, that you don't need to get up under the snorkel, the deeper - the less noticeable it seems.

Exactly what sort of.
For radar, the snorkel is visible within a radius of approximately 200km. Those. if you already know where to look. But the Warsaw women / frets are not the kind of submarines that can be easily tracked from a distance, like the same submarines. For understanding - the main means, these are acoustic bottom barriers. An active search is essentially military action, and here the specific tactics of use are more important.
Moreover. Here, after all, you have to understand what? You need to understand that our diesel-electric submarines in attack mode (yes, only forty minutes maximum an hour) have a greater speed than the aponents (not all, but most of them do). And this is a tactical advantage, in a real dump. This time. The second thing to understand is that, unlike foreign diesel-electric submarines, incl. with VNEU, our diesel boats are not positioned as ocean-going boats. These are boats of the inner seas or the near ocean zone (anti-submarine protection of bases). Foreigners, on the other hand, do not have internal seas, with the exception of the Mediterranean, in which a woman from Warsaw can successfully work. Those. it is necessary to understand exactly who is doing what and why. You can also patrol the Northern Sea Route by cabotage in Warsaw. Moreover, there are bases and will continue to grow. Yes, VNEU is of course cool, as well as STELS technologies in aviation. But they shot down ...

...
Briefly speaking. The debate about the usefulness or not usefulness of VNEU is a discussion of a spherical platinum-iridium horse in deep space. Apart from specific tasks and the theater of action, such disputes make no sense.

[mark1]

Quote: Al_lexx

Lithium batteries partly solve the problems of diesel-electric submarines.

Only WOW will give a fast high-quality race (this applies to almost any diesel engine)

[Al_lexx]

Quote: mark1

Only WOW will give a fast high-quality race (this applies to almost any diesel engine)

WOW who is this?

[mark1]

VAU-auxiliary nuclear power plant, it is "Dollezhal's egg" is attached to almost any diesel-electric submarine with min. finalization

[Al_lexx]

Thank you. I wrote it down on the cuff. Although I still did not understand what it was.))
I realized that this is something good and incomprehensible to me, the old man.))

[Alien From]

I hope we have dealt with all the jambs in 10 years ...

[75 Sergey]

No, VNEU was never born.

[Piramidon]

Quote: 75Sergey

No, VNEU was never born.

Happiness is not in VNEU.

[agond]

The boat has a surface displacement of 1765 tons underwater 2650 tons, that is, in it, in a submerged position 885 tons of water, 33%
for comparison, in the Virginia nuclear submarine, the surface displacement of 7300t submerged 7925t, the difference is only 625t, that is, less than ours by 200t,

[Bad_gr]

Quote: agond

The boat has a surface displacement of 1765 tons underwater 2650 tons, that is, in it, in a submerged position 885 tons of water, 33%

The buoyancy is the survivability of the boat. The Americans, at the expense of survivability, raise the characteristics of the submerged submarine. In an extreme situation, this may not backfire them well.

[Grits]

Quote: agond

for comparison, in the Virginia nuclear submarine, the surface displacement of 7300t submerged 7925t

Pin-dos have single-hull boats.

[tralflot1832]

Someone can really explain why we need VNEU, what it gives an advantage off our shores. How long can a VNEU submarine go with 16 knots under water. Why 16 knots is an economical course of warships.

[forcecom]

the answer is simple "Warsaw" its full submerged course of 18 knots with a fully charged battery keep 45 minutes, then everything, paragraph and crawl at 3-4 knots.
Eh, "Lada" I was assigned to it back in 2001, I did not wait, I was transferred to "Warsaw" so as not to beat the thumbs on the shore.

[tralflot1832]

And I also saw in the Bolshaya Volokovaya Bay, probably the 633th project at the end of the 70s. Thanks for the performance characteristics. Now the dances with VNEU are clear.

[Alex777]

VNEU seems to be different.
And each type has its own pros and cons.
The Japanese switched to LIABs because the speed of 20 knots on them can be kept longer than on any other type of VNEU.

[Mountain shooter]

It was in trial operation for a long time. VNEU, VNEU ... well, it doesn't work yet. Not fatal. I would vote for the nuclear power plant. It is necessary to have a nuclear reactor of the required power. With the possibility of cooling by natural convection. It will be quiet too.

[Alex777]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

I would vote for the nuclear power plant.

We are waiting for 2023.
But the fact of entering Kronstadt into the fleet is surprising.
Many people here argued that this will never happen.

[Alex777]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

I would vote for the nuclear power plant.

See what article I came across!
And why not on VO ..?

An auxiliary nuclear power plant can generally be installed on any diesel submarine - but one thing "can be installed", and quite another "there is a project." In the case of the 677th project, this is “there is a project” and it would be worth taking advantage of it. Already if Russia does not build full-fledged multipurpose submarines, optimized for combat with enemy submarines, then it is possible to rely on diesel engines with auxiliary reactors, and it is possible and inexpensive.

https://vz.ru/society/2021/9/23/1120574.html

Is the secret finally revealed?

[Nafanya from the sofa]

Is she like that with the "woods" and swam all 10 years?

[Piramidon]

Quote: Nafanya from the couch

Is she like that with the "woods" and swam all 10 years?

Yeah, and for all 10 years these guys did not leave the upper deck, even during diving.

[Nafanya from the sofa]

Yeah, and all 10 years these guys did not leave the upper deck, even during diving. laughing

So the admin with VO thinks so too. It was not for nothing that he attached a photo with forests, although he could have looked without forests. The admin stuck a stupid photo to the article, and I picked up the minuses because of this. Humor people don't understand.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Nafanya from the couch

Admin stuck a stupid photo to the article

Who knows? Maybe the photo is the most relevant to eat, and they decided to simply paint the boat before delivery or apply identification marks. That is why the forests are standing still.

[Nafanya from the sofa]

just paint before delivery

In the sense as in folk wisdom:

Paint and discard?

[Orange bigg]

Quote: Nafanya from the couch

Yeah, and all 10 years these guys did not leave the upper deck, even during diving. laughing

So the admin with VO thinks so too. It was not for nothing that he attached a photo with forests, although he could have looked without forests. The admin stuck a stupid photo to the article, and I picked up the minuses because of this. Humor people don't understand.

Looks like the owner of the site is also from Ukraine, like the site avia.pro, so he put a photo with the forests.

[tralflot1832]

This is the reception area for the parade, you know by whom?

[Magog_]

VNEU - is it something on a solarium (diesel submarine), and as an oxidizer - oxygen obtained from the transported stocks of chemical reagents? Do I get it right ? And what to do with the combustion products of distilled fuel, presumably, under water? Suck the exhaust and pressurize it into cylinders? Rem. to fill up workshops on the shore with carbon dioxide!

[agond]

If you remove excess water from the 677 project, its tapm is as much as 885 tons and add batteries to the freed up space, then you can probably do without VNEU, well, at least for the first time.

[Stepan S]

remove excess water

In this place, you can put a compact nuclear reactor to recharge the batteries.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Stepan S

In this place, you can put a compact nuclear reactor to recharge the batteries.

Moreover, even the satellites were able to stick.

[Alex777]

Quote: Piramidon

Moreover, even the satellites were able to stick.

Price, power, safety and durability all matter.

[Grits]

Quote: agond

If you remove excess water from the 677 project, its tapm is as much as 885 tons and add batteries to the freed up space

Well, let's say you dive in with the batteries added. And to surface, will you throw the batteries overboard?

[Errr]

Read at http://factmil.com/publ/strana/germanija/vozdukhonezavisimye_ehnergeticheskie_ustanovki_sovremennykh_dizelnykh_podvodnykh_lodok_2004/41-1-0-1322#:~:text=В%20настоящее%20время%20существуют%20четыре,цикла.%20К%20числу%20основных%20требований

[Jacket in stock]

The Japanese played at VNEU and returned to batteries again.
And we did not catch up with them yesterday.
It's time to give up this thankless task and also to take up the batteries properly. If you read the news, then we seem to have developments and prospects. It would be necessary to translate them into life.

[agond]

Quote: Jacket in stock

It's time to quit this thankless task

You can't give up, VNEU could have given birth for a long time if you gave up the desire to cram diesel, diesel fuel, liquid oxygen onto the submarine, a diesel fuel reforming plant, a chemical absorber of combustion products, plus batteries, you can't read everything, you need a single turbine for steam from burning ethyl alcohol and oxygen, at the outlet, fresh water and carbon dioxide, which can then be stored in liquid form at temperatures up to 30 * C,

[kig]

Ours did absolutely right, looked and waited to see what was going on with others ... now they will put up a miniature thermonuclear reactor with direct conversion of decay energy into electricity, and the trick is in the bag.

[Ivanushka Ivanov]

Fear spirits, you careless in judgment! "Products" and cartoons are not enough for you?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: kig

now they will supply a miniature thermonuclear reactor with direct conversion of decay energy into electricity

And they will get nonsense that rattles the whole ocean ...

[kig]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

And they will get nonsense that rattles the whole ocean ..

Why?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: kig

Why?

Because the reactor generates heat, this heat must be supplied to the generator, which converts it into electricity. And this circuit will always be more noisy than a battery / motor bundle.
On a ship with VNEU, no one bothers to cut it down, complete a combat mission, move away, turn it back on. And the reactor cannot be turned off

[kig]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

the reactor generates heat, this heat must be supplied to the generator

I, of course, am pleased that you took my fantasies seriously ... But in general, why not? After all, what is so extraordinary about a nuclear power plant? Only a source of thermal energy, and then everything is the same: a turbine, a generator. We need a breakthrough, a jump, a jump. And in technology. Direct conversion of nuclear fusion energy into electrical energy! Although no, if we need to move something, then an electric motor immediately suggests itself, but this is still an extra step. It is necessary to immediately lay the boats with an emphasis on the cold plasma propulsion unit. There is something similar in rocketry, even if there will be something like a water cannon. Let's say this: water flows by gravity into something secret and extraordinary, and from there it spits out with acceleration. All that is needed is the initial shock to get the device to swallow the first sip of water. However, the method can be any, it makes no difference to me. For example, it is high time to take a closer look at dolphins and sharks, they move in a very original way. Sharks never stop at all, and this is exactly what we need. Of course, it will be difficult to live and work in a constantly bending body ... but okay, let there be a motionless capsule inside.

In light of such prospects, the delay with VNEU looks quite justified.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: kig

Let's say this: water flows by gravity into something secret and extraordinary

It's easier to add a new button to your laptop "kill the NATO navy". Pressed and ....

[kig]

Has already! I'm afraid to press. For now.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: kig

Direct conversion of nuclear fusion energy into electrical energy!

We only lacked TOKOMAK on board! Look at the temperatures of nuclear fusion ... And second. And how will you keep the little man-made SUN? And hop it will weigh in TONS !? Or are you going to hold plasma in the palms of STARPOM with the active participation of FUR? And, of course, will you provide electricity (autonomous) for all this gimmick from LIAB / ALAB?

... begs electric motor but this is still an extra step ... boats with an emphasis on cold plasma propulsive device. There is something similar in rocketry, even if there will be something like water cannon.

I'm out of the porridge in your head!
1. ED - the machine with the highest (today) efficiency. Why abandon it? The Yankees already have all the submarines on an electric ship, and this is a global trend in modern shipbuilding.
2. Cold-plasma ENGINE (?) What and how will it "rest" on / on the water ??? It is the maximum - it will evaporate the water in the "pipe-nozzle", and then - the roar and burst of T *. Do you know anything about the heat trail?
We certainly welcome the "flight of thought", but not manilovism. And fiction d.b. SCIENTIFIC, not vulgar fantasy ...
Somehow, however.

[Igor K]

A turbine that rotates the shaft is thundering, if you generate electricity, then the noise will be an order of magnitude less.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Igor K

The turbine thunders the shaft

Everything thunders. That is why, for example, the transition to natural circulation of the coolant significantly reduces the noise level of the nuclear submarine (the pumps do not work)

[Grits]

Quote: kig

now they will put a miniature thermonuclear reactor with direct conversion of decay energy into electricity, and the trick is in the bag.

Well, yes, with a hat. Have you thought about how to cool the reactor and bring heat from it to the turbine? Or will your rector immediately generate electric sparks?

[kig]

Naturally! Otherwise, why fence a vegetable garden?

[Ivanushka Ivanov]

Or maybe it's for the best that VNEU (another rubber product with a number) could not create. After all, what happens is that the battery is much, much quieter. Wait until they bring this topic to mind, and put it in the appendage to the existing reliable installation.

IMHO it is necessary to create another type for this topic - a battery submarine. The refueling tanker is submerged. The drone pulls the cable about 500 meters.

[Gembyh124]

In the Baltic and will most likely leave

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Gembyh124

In the Baltic and will most likely leave

It would be nice, but she will be sent to the Northern Fleet, to the Kola Fleet.

[Stepan S]

however, it has not yet been possible to create VNEU (at least the creation of the installation has not been officially announced).

And they can't steal in any way, but their own does not want to work without air, independence is not enough.
10 years of experimental operation, it's difficult to comment here, it's time to put the boat for overhaul.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Stepan S

It's time to put the boat for overhaul.

So they put it. And not just for repairs, for upgrading to the "serial" level.

[Flooding]

Quote: Stepan S

And they can't steal in any way, but their own does not want to work without air, independence is not enough.

in 2019 wrote the following

The last cheerful message came from KB Rubin four years ago. It was stated that the onshore tests of the installation were successful. Sea trials are being prepared. After that, it will come to the installation of VNEU on two Ladakhs under construction - B-586 Kronstadt and B-587 Velikie Luki.
But then there was silence. It turned out that the power taken from the installation was clearly not enough to ensure the normal operation of the submarine.

more details at https://svpressa.ru/war21/article/246962/

[standan]

Steal what and from whom? Is there at least one serial boat with VNEU?

[agond]

Before talking about the difficulties on the way of creating VNEU, you need to know at least briefly the history of the development of engine building, know the content of some patents (they are also freely available), you should like to be interested in engines, not to mention trying (even if you think about it) to build an engine yourself, ...
- so even before the war, the Germans had a project of a torpedo containing compressed oxygen in a cylinder, ethyl alcohol in a tank, a closed combustion chamber (chemical reactor) where the reaction of alcohol burning in oxygen took place, at the exit from the reactor there was superheated water vapor mixed with carbon dioxide, the steam obtained during the reaction with gas turned an ordinary piston steam engine, the exhaust steam-gas was thrown into the water, as we see nothing particularly complicated, the work did not continue because the steam engine did not develop the required power, and at that time it was not possible to make a small-sized steam turbine could, they did not develop a similar installation for a submarine, since the cryotechnical technology had not yet been worked out, but this was when it was,

[standan]

Sorry, but why this comment I did not understand at all

[agond]

This is not a comment, this is so, reasoning

[standan]

Why did you address it to me? I then wrote it in response to this

Stepan S (Stepan Striyan) Today, 14:28
however, it has not yet been possible to create VNEU (at least the creation of the installation has not been officially announced).

And they can't steal in any way, but their own does not want to work without air, independence is not enough.
10 years of experimental operation, it's difficult to comment here, it's time to put the boat for overhaul.

[agond]

Usually, if someone is addressed, then he is quoted, and here I am just trying to convey to the readers the idea that VNEU based on oxygen, alcohol and a steam turbine is a relatively simple and affordable thing.

[kig]

The French are developing a similar system with a closed-cycle turbine, but for some reason the most popular in the world are the Swedish system with Stirling and the German one with ECH

[kig]

Quote: Stepan S

And there is no way to steal

Why steal? The Swedes can upgrade any boat by inserting a compartment with their Stirling.

[Castro Ruiz]

Enough vipuskat modern DEPL on power engineering WW2.
Where LIABi, will they be better outside?

[anclevalico]

Where to start VNEU? The grandmas are simply thrown into the firebox, without controlling the costs and quality of the output product. Kabaev thinks that simply by pouring money in, something can be solved. No, they just steal and squander. Really tired already this, clinging to the throne, ghoul.

[Igor K]

On the way are compact nuclear engines that will completely change the balance of power in the construction of submarines, narrowing the gap between former diesel boats and old-generation nuclear-powered ships. Everything else is half-hearted and temporary solutions.

[agond]

Quote: Stepan S

remove excess water

In this place, you can put a compact nuclear reactor to recharge the batteries

This "extra water" is located in the gap between the light and the strong body and surrounds the strong body on all sides, although this place is large in volume, but it is very narrow (just so that the welder can fit and work in it). it also contains the outer frames of the solid body

[agond]

A little educational program for my minus guides
all our boats stood out and stand out with a large supply of this very "excess water", since the times of the USSR the name "water carriers" has been stuck behind them, even in this new Lada its, as much as 33%, !!!, in Virginia only 7.8%, that is the designer of our boats, instead of thinking about how to increase the ammunition load or add batteries, and in general how to increase the technical perfection of the ship, the double-hull boat structure is riveted in the old fashioned way (although the rest of the world is building single-hull), this dramatically increases the volume of ballast - excess water,
Of course, you can continue to give me minuses, but arguing is essentially tantamount to challenging world experience, there is no serious knowledge, no arguments, although why is it a minus if they know how to poke a button with a minus and this is a plus

[Boa kaa]

Quote: agond

A little educational program ...

Why not use a good idea !? SO:
1. Virginia has a buoyancy reserve of not 7,8%, but 15%. This is the time.

The ship in the permeable ends has two groups of non-kingston-free CGB - bow and stern. Each of the groups includes three separate side-by-side tanks that provide approximately 15% buoyancy reserve. CGB are purged with high pressure air or a system of powder pressure accumulators, which ensures the emergence of the boat in an emergency.

2. It is impossible, while teaching others, to recklessly sculpt a gag:

constructor our boats ... they rivet in the old fashioned way double-hulled boat design (although the rest of the world builds single-hull), this dramatically increases the volume of ballast - excess water,

a) the designers of the submarine / submarine perform the TTZ, which is given by the sailors. And the military proceeds from the fact that ZP = 33% provides unsinkability when 1-2 adjacent submarine compartments are filled, while the 3-compartment Virgin is completely devoid of this advantage;
b) we have 885 pr., 667 pr., have a 1,5 body design. German submarine pr. 212A - also 1,5 hull, not single-hull, as you think;
c) excess ballast is pumped out of the ballast tanks overboard when the boat is displayed and trimmed. And the rest is for repayment of positive buoyancy ... So, no one carries too much
By the way, I put you on the first comment + ... and you went to the teacher. It's somehow embarrassing even ...

[agond]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

1. Virginia has a buoyancy reserve of not 7,8%, but 15%. This is the time.

The buoyancy reserve is calculated from the underwater displacement
USS Virginia (SSN-774) (Russian "Virginia")
7300/7925 t. Displacement (surface / underwater)
subtract the smaller from the larger, we get 625t, we divide the obtained by 7925t, we get the answer, the buoyancy margin of Virginia is 7.88%
German lodi project 212
1450 t / 1840 t Displacement (surface / underwater) buoyancy reserve 21%
проект 209
1454 t / 1586 t Displacement (surface / underwater) buoyancy margin 8.3%
in 212 projects, a second hull made of reinforced plastic was used, it is really light, so the designers allowed themselves to increase the buoyancy margin.
Domestic boats
pr 636 Varshavyanka write that the buoyancy is 30%, but if you count
2350 t / 3950 t Displacement (surface / underwater) 1600 t give 40% of the buoyancy
pr 877 "Palthus"
2300 t / 3040 t Displacement (surface / underwater) 24%

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

have a 1,5 body design.

Decimal fractions for counting the buildings, the floor of the building was reduced to 1.5 and this is given as an achievement, a project from 1.25 building is on the way, ... it looks like a real story from the time of Catherine II, a merchant by the name of Semizhopov petitioned to change his surname to a more harmonious one, on the fact that after long ordeals he changed his surname to Shestyzhopov.

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

a) the designers of the submarine / submarine perform the TTZ, which is given by the sailors.

Never when did he claim that the designer did not know their business, they just had a principle, - do what the merchant said, and you will be fine, and if you quarrel with the merchant, you will turn out to be a fool, and if one of the compartments is flooded, there is a chance to emerge and return to base ... in peacetime.

[Liam]

Quote: agond

and so yes, when one of the compartments is flooded, there is a chance to surface and return to the base ... in peacetime.

And how many Soviet / Russian submarines with flooded compartments returned to base?

[agond]

Quote: Liam

And how many Soviet / Russian submarines with flooded compartments returned to base?

The sailors who issue assignments for the design of submarines know the answer to this question.

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

a) the designers of the submarine / submarine perform the TTZ, which is given by the sailors. And the military proceeds from the fact that salary = 33% ensures unsinkability when filling 1-2 adjacent compartments

[Boa kaa]

Quote: agond

The buoyancy reserve is considered

Colleague agond, I explain on fingers:
1.The buoyancy reserve is the amount of water that the ship needs to take in order to go underwater. Amy themselves say that Virginia has about 13%. More precisely, 12,7%. You have an error in the initial data: Wp = 7925 +/- 10t, and Wn = 7030t. Therefore - 900: 7030 = 0,127 ...
2. There are no "decimals". There are types of submarine designs: one-, one-and-a-half-, double-hull submarines. There is an exception: PLA Rubis had a single-hull and 2-hull hull design at the same time:

The hull has a mixed design: for most of the length, the boat is single-hull, only in the areas of the torpedo and electromechanical compartments it is double-hull.

Therefore, anything can happen.
3. Constructors (we do not say - "constructor" - well, only a select few, like you) perform TTZ. There is no other way - the order (work) will not be accepted by the customer. It's simple.
Somehow, however.

[agond]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

You have an error in the initial data: Wp = 7925 +/- 10t, and Wn = 7030t. Therefore - 900: 7030 = 0,127 ...

So I took the wrong data from Wikipedia, but on the other hand, the submarine's buoyancy reserve is only on the surface, but under water it is not, but what we are told is like a quote
- "and the built-in additional reserve of passive buoyancy makes it possible to maintain the underwater unsinkability of the submarine, including without climbing onto the surface, which in combat conditions will undoubtedly give our submarines an advantage over the enemy's boats."
How is that ??? flooded (albeit not completely, but only by half), by which the middle misfire was "cut off" from the neighboring ones, some tanks were blown through, they retained zero buoyancy, but the compartments are all "individual", that is, they are not duplicated and think that it is possible in this position a whole week where to go to take advantage of ... but optimistic