"No cities, no villages, one field and ash"

Battle of the White Church. September 24, 1651. Drawing by Abraham van Westerfeld

The ruin of Little Russia

The most difficult defeat in the multi-day Battle of Berestetskaya (June 1651) predetermined the signing of the "obscene" peace. The main forces of the Cossack army were defeated. The Crimean Khan betrayed Khmelnitsky, at the most critical moment fled from the battlefield, taking the hetman with him, beheading the Cossacks.

The Polish gentry at that moment could easily finish off the bloodless and decapitated Ukraine. But the traditional Polish sloppiness and pride affected. Immediately after the victory, the lords began to talk that they were tired, spent all their funds and it was time to dissolve the ruin (gentry militia), since the Cossacks were finally defeated. Without royal permission, almost all of the gentry militia went home.

King Jan Kazimierz also left to solemnly celebrate the great victory. Only the squads of the magnates remained, who owned the estates in Little Russia and a few crown troops. The remaining troops were led by the Crown Hetman Nikolai Pototsky and Prince Jeremiah (Yarema) Vishnevetsky.

The Poles moved into the depths of Ukraine. They acted traditionally, as during all uprisings and riots: without exception, local residents were slaughtered, hanged and burned, villages were destroyed. They restored "order" in their estates, avenged the ruined estates and the fear they had experienced.

Shlyakhtich Myaskovsky described the actions of the Polish army:

“No cities, no villages, one field and ash. Not to see anyone alive: neither people, nor animals, only birds in the air. "

The 40-thousandth Lithuanian army of Hetman Janusz Radziwill, reinforced by German mercenaries, advanced from Lithuanian Rus (Belarus). The gentry planned to seize Chernigov and Kiev.

Chernigov Colonel Martyn Nebaba moved up against him with a detachment. The forces of the Cossacks were inferior to the enemy - 20 thousand, in addition, in his army there were many unstable and untrained peasants, but Nebaba had to give battle to the enemy.

On July 6, 1651, the Battle of Loyev took place. Cossacks from fortified positions repelled a frontal assault. However, at night, the Polish hussars were able to enter from the rear. Several thousand Cossacks and Poles perished in the fierce massacre. Nebaba died a heroic death.

On July 26, Radziwill's army occupied Kiev. The townspeople fled in horror, wherever they looked. Then the Lithuanian army of Radziwill went to join the Polish army of Potocki. It seemed that the Hetmanate was over.

Loev battle. 1651 year. By A. van Westerfeld

The Russians do not give up!

The mass terror of the Poles against the rebellious Russian regions this time backfired. Not at all what the Polish punishers were counting on. The Russians understood that there would be no mercy anyway. They became even more violent, fought to the death, with the despair of the doomed. Numerous new detachments were formed around the Cossack commanders and rank-and-file Cossacks.

Radziwill was worried that a sea of ​​people's anger was spreading around him, that he might be surrounded. The hetman left Kiev and went to join the troops of Potocki. The Kievans themselves burned the city so that the Poles would not occupy it again.

Khmelnitsky was held captive by the Crimeans. He again sent his trusted people to Moscow, asked the tsar for help. Then the general clerk Vygovsky brought a huge ransom to the khan. The hetman was released.

Khmelnitsky showed his best qualities in this catastrophic situation. He was able to endure a personal tragedy, defeat, death of the army and old associates. In fact, a lot had to be started anew, and Khmelnitsky did it. Gathered the remaining comrades-in-arms, the remnants of the army, urged people to arms... People, detachments flowed under his banners, a new army was created.

The Polish lords began to meet strong resistance. Detachments of Cossacks again acted in their rear. The Cossacks recaptured Vinnitsa, Pavolici and Fastov.

The Poles faced a supply problem. The country was devastated by military operations, provisions and fodder were difficult to get. There were no reinforcements from Poland. An epidemic has begun.

On August 20, 1651, the most implacable persecutor of the Russians in Ukraine, Prince Vishnevetsky (himself from a Russian family), died in a Polish military camp near Pavoloch. Until now, the reasons for his death have not been clarified. According to one version, he was poisoned, according to the other, he died of an illness during an epidemic.

Without Yarema's iron hand, discipline began to break in the camp. Vishnevetsky's warriors almost rebelled, they believed that their beloved leader had been killed. They demanded an autopsy, it was carried out, no traces of the poison were found. The gentry and mercenaries demanded to return to their homes, threatened with a riot.

Belotserkovsky world

The Battle of the White Church in September 1651 ended in a draw. The Poles counted on a blow from the rear of Radziwill, but Khmelnitsky personally stopped his attack. Under these conditions, the Polish command entered into negotiations with Khmelnytsky.

Negotiations were going on in Belaya Tserkov, they were difficult, dragged out.

The Polish delegation, led by voivode Kisel, did not want to hear about the confirmation of the terms of the Zborov agreement of 1649 (autonomy of the Hetmanate, a register of 40 thousand Cossacks). The Poles insisted on reducing the territory of the autonomous Hetmanate, reducing the register, curtailing the rights of the Cossacks.

The Cossacks gathered in the city made noise, waved their weapons, demanded the old world. The crowd promised to deal with the Polish delegation and even the hetman if he accepted the terms of the lords. They offered to continue the war. Regiments and crowds of Cossacks made up their delegations, worked out their own conditions. The negotiations were interrupted several times. Kissel and other Polish delegates were robbed, almost killed.

As a result, on September 18 (28), 1651, the peace was signed.

The new conditions, in comparison with the Zboriv peace, were humiliating for the Cossacks. The register was reduced to 20 thousand sabers, and the Cossacks were obliged to live only in some royal estates, in the Kiev voivodeship, "without touching the Bratslav and Chernigov voivodships." That is, autonomy was retained only in one of the three voivodeships - Kiev. The hetman of the Zaporizhzhya Army was deprived of the opportunity to conduct business with other powers, militarily he was subordinate to the Polish crown hetman. Royal troops returned to Ukraine, except for the Kiev Voivodeship. Jews could return to royal and gentry estates.

A new period of testing has begun for the people. The new Polish hetman Kalinouski, who replaced the sick Potocki (died in November 1651), began to restore "order" in the Bratslav and Chernigov provinces. Polish punishers again hanged, impaled and burned "claps". Under the protection of Polish troops, the gentry returned to their estates. The pans took revenge on the "rebels" with massive flogging and executions, squeezed out of the peasants all the losses, unpaid taxes for three years. The epidemic and famine were added to the troubles.

Already in October, the peasants of the Dnieper region revolted. The uprising covered the Chernihiv and Poltava regions. The West Russian population fled en masse across the border to the Russian kingdom. Ivan Dzinkovsky's Chernigov Cossack regiment was leaked entirely. He was placed in the new fortress of Ostrogozhsk. Other refugees settled in "Slobodskaia Ukraine" - in the regions of Kharkov, Oskol and Voronezh. It was called “Slobodskoy” because the villages were exempt from taxes and had the status of settlements.

Thus, the new world was fragile and short-lived.

Khmelnitsky is strengthening ties with Moscow, preparing the ground for a new military campaign. And the Polish lords tried to enslave the Russian outskirts again, provoking the resistance of the Cossacks, peasants and townspeople.

Comments

[Peak]

Khmelnitsky showed his best qualities in this catastrophic situation. He was able to endure a personal tragedy, defeat, death of the army and old associates. In fact, a lot had to be started anew, and Khmelnitsky did it. Gathered the remaining comrades-in-arms, the remnants of the army, called people to arms. People, detachments flowed under his banners, a new army was created.

A controversial figure, personality ...
As much as logical and consistent the hetman's actions in individual situations could be, just as much they were impulsive and dictated only by the current situationality, without any far-predicted plan for the future.


The absence of any strategy for the future is what makes modern Ukraine akin to the Hetmanate.

To some extent - the continuity of eras ...

[Olgovich]

Other refugees settled in "Slobodskoy Ukraine" - in the regions of Kharkov, Oskol and Voronezh.

just not in slbod Уkrajina, and in the suburban Ukraine (outskirts) Russian state they settled - with the permission of its rulers.

[No name B]

Explain to me the reason why the collective Samsonov, with manic stubbornness, calls the Ukrainians and Ukraine, now Rus, now Cossacks, now Western Russians, etc. After all, it is not clear about whom we are talking, write the Ukrainians and Ukraine and everything falls into place, but what is the author not trying to achieve?

[Kozak Za Bugra]

From a historical point of view, it seems correct, Ukraine did not exist as a concept then, the Cossacks and the small Orthodox gentry led the war as a class for their rights and not as a nation, but on the other hand it is misleading, Little Russia is a more acceptable designation for Ukraine of those centuries.

[Daniil Konovalenko]

Here is the point of D. Kostomarov in his work Bogdan Khmelnitsky, writes that the inhabitants of Little Russia, at that time called themselves "Russian" and refers to documents that, in principle, it was. And in this work it sounds like "Russian", "Cossacks". And the author of the article, simply copies the work of D. Kostomarov, but I want to show that he did the work himself, subjected it to revision, plus confusion with terminology.

[Kozak Za Bugra]

Hello, I read Kostomarov, but in Ukraine there are still areas where people make money for themselves Rusini and the language looks like a mixture of Russian and Ukrainian. Until the 19th century, everyone called themselves Russians, Gogol in Taras Bulba speaks of the "Russian people". And the Cossacks are a class, like the gentry, they beat the privileged (registered) and were not privileged (Zaporozhye). The latter started a war against Poland in order to have the privileges of registered Cossacks, and there the villagers were drawn into the war.
But I'm talking about the author's definitions, in order to cover all that territory with the definitions of that time and not lead to confusion, you can apply Little Russia, then this term was also used.

[Skif]

He seeks understanding. Understanding that there was then neither Ukraine, nor, moreover, Ukrainians. And the Cossacks considered themselves and their lands Russian. Is it clear now?

[ivan2022]

[quote = No name B] Explain to me the reason why the collective Samsonov, with manic stubbornness, calls the Ukrainians and Ukraine, then Russia, then the Cossacks, then the Western Russians, etc. After all, it is not clear about whom we are talking, write the Ukrainians and Ukraine and everything falls into place, but what is not what the author is trying to achieve? [/ Quote

The concept of "NATION" did not develop much more than a century ago.
There were no nations in the Republic of Ingushetia, the division was based on religion and estates.

NATION is when popular political movements appear in the People. This happens under capitalism. It doesn't matter what - it is important what they are. For example, Russians have not yet become a nation. Why? Because there is only one truly popular kind of "movement": OPG-AUE

[Alt 22]

There were no nations in RI, but there were nationalities - more precisely, nationalities, as they were called in the Russian Empire. The same as nationality, just a different term. And Russians, by the way, called all the East Slavic peoples taken together - while in the population census, Great Russians, Little Russians and Belarusians were counted separately for each nationality (nationality, as they said then).

[House 25 Sq. 380]

Everything will fall into place when you read the correspondence between Khmelnytsky and the Polish diplomatic archive of that time and find the word "Ukrainians" there ...

[Curious Katya]

why the collective Samsonov, with manic stubbornness, calls the Ukrainians and Ukraine, now Russia, now the Cossacks, now the Western Russians, etc. After all, it is not clear who we are talking about, write Ukrainians and Ukraine

Well, there was no Ukraine then, it just WASN'T, do you understand?
There was no such country.

[north 2]

By the way, Ukraine has already visited the European Union once. In the Commonwealth. This European Union
then it was from Kiev to the Baltic Sea, almost 900 square kilometers in Europe and the so-called Ukrainians in that European Union were second-class, if not even third-class people. So Khmelnitsky crawled to the Russian Tsar to ask for salvation. And now, if Ukraine becomes a member of the EU, then now the second grade for the Ukrainians will be for happiness. Only now Russia has grown wiser since then, and more of those who crawl to beg for salvation holding a stone in their bosom and a fig in their pocket - more Russia does not save such people ...

[Ulrich]

They also compared it to me. From Speech the European Union is like a bullet from something ...

[No name B]

If you please, Ukraine then visited the Commonwealth in the "European Union", but the resistance of the Ukrainians just undermined this European Union of yours. And the appeal of Bogdan Khmelnitsky for help to the Russian Tsar was very beneficial for Muscovy, in order to stop being not a "borderland of the European Union", but just one of the centers of influence in Europe. So there’s no need for salvation, Muscovy benefited from this and considerable.

[Kushka]

Visited poorly. 250 (!) Years, before the Pereyaslav Rada (1654).
Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Lithuanian Statutes, Magdeburg Law
etc. Western European institutions and values. During the Time of Troubles, when
ON arranged a campaign of False Dmitry, it was the Cossacks who were the vanguard and burned
Moscow. And your "was very beneficial to Muscovy" is not true - and until 1654
the tsar was asked to join the tsar SEVERAL times, but the tsar was careful
then I remembered the conflagrations of Moscow and understood how alien it would be
this part of the population. And only Constantinople, and after him and Nikon, convinced him-
that it will be useful to spread Orthodoxy in the territory of Little and White Russia
to his state. And Khmelnitsky was not up to Orthodoxy - he was looking for a military "roof",
for him it was the main thing, because it burned.
This is how the reunification happened - both sides pursued their (different) interests.
What we have today.

[No name B]

And only Constantinople, and after him and Nikon, convinced him-
that spreading Orthodoxy in the territory of Little and White Russia will be useful for his state

Just the opposite, from Ukraine, Orthodoxy went to Muscovy. Or, in another way, from Kiev to all of Russia. And the throne was transferred from Kiev, first to Vladimir, and then to Moscow ...
Such a concept as Little Russia or Little Russia is deeply alien in Ukraine to any Ukrainian. This sounds like an insult in Ukraine at all times. Russia began with Kiev, Kievan Rus at one time was the largest state in Europe. The fact that in the future Moscow rose and brought together all the Russian lands and not only, honor and praise to you. But without Ukraine, Rus is not Rus. It is not for nothing that Russia in Muscovy was renamed Russia, because Russia is Kiev, Novgorod, and Russia is more than Russia.

[Kushka]

That's just this question (who is the first - the chicken or the egg), I did not touch!
Your post is built as an objection to the enemy, and I am not,
because I and my whole family, my great-grandfathers are Ukrainians.
The person wrote that Ukraine "visited" the West (250 years -
is it "visited"?). I wrote that Khmelnitsky, being in
difficult situation, I was forced to look for another
MILITARY ALLIANCE, i.e. purely practically (a matter of survival).
And the Moscow sovereign decided the issue of expanding the Orthodox
state at the expense of the lands of Belarus and Ukraine, i.e. purely on
ideological reasons. But in fact, an attempt came out
unite people with the persistent, age-old West Slavic
mentality with the East Slavic type of state.
Events in 1918, 1939 and today do not seem the same to you?

[Witness 45]

By and large, Russia began not from Kiev, but from Veliky Novgorod, because it was from him that the Rurik dynasty came to Kiev (it does not matter whether it was of a Slavic or Germanic family), which laid the foundation for the formation of the so-called Kievan Rus.

[garrett]

I would like to add that the term “Kievan Rus” first appeared in the first half of the XNUMXth century in the work of the historian Mikhail Maksimovich “Where does the Russian land come from” in a narrow geographical sense to denote the principality of Kiev, along with such phrases as “Chervonnaya Rus”, “ Suzdal Rus "and other Rus.

[north 2]

The then European Union, then called Rzeczpospolita, was undermined not by the resistance of the Ukrainians, but by the dream of the Polish, Lithuanian lords and Ukrainian hetmans with the Cossacks during the turmoil in Russia in the Kremlin to plant their own, Polish Sigismund. Lzhedmitry was just a temporary doll, and the real Russian throne was prepared for the Polish King Sigismund, who, like False Dmitry, was supported by the atamans of the Ukrainian Cossacks led by Sagaidachny. Have you heard about this. He is now a hero in Ukraine and the flagship of the Ukrainian so-called Navy is even named after him. And then he burned Moscow with the Poles and Lithuanians.
Yes, Minin and Pozharsky awakened Russia, that after the Golden Horde and the Tatars, now first of all it is necessary to beat the Poles with the Lithuanians and their henchmen. So they began to tear apart this Rzeczpospolita, dividing it, until the third section was finished by Mother Catherine the Great, who at the same time with the end of the Rzeczpospolita made a toilet bowl from the throne of the Polish king in her dressing room.
You say, why didn't Catherine make another chamber pot then from the throne of the Lithuanian prince? But because Poland by that time, through this union of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, had already absorbed the largest state in Europe, the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. And Russia would face the same absorption by Poland, the same fate would disappear if Russia did not understand in time who the Poles, Lithuanians, and some hetmans of Ukraine with their Cossacks are ...

[Kushka]

For me it is difficult, the story "did not come" to me even at school.
I am simply pointing out that over 600 years there have been two persistent types -
West Slavic and East Slavic. And all who tried of them
to dazzle something in common, and in 1654, and in 1918, and in 1939 they received gambling.
.Bolsheviks, so right away - in 1920, losing the Soviet-Polish war.
(They also hit the gold hard). But we stubbornly step on a rake:
What we see today in the "triangle" Ukraine-Belarus-Russia,
in your opinion, not the same gambling?

[north 2]

Quote: Kushka

For me it is difficult, the story "did not come" to me even at school.
I am simply pointing out that over 600 years there have been two persistent types -
West Slavic and East Slavic. And all who tried of them
to dazzle something in common, and in 1654, and in 1918, and in 1939 they received gambling.
.Bolsheviks, so right away - in 1920, losing the Soviet-Polish war.
(They also hit the gold hard). But we stubbornly step on a rake:
What we see today in the "triangle" Ukraine-Belarus-Russia,
in your opinion, not the same gambling?

It all depends on three points.
First . Russia does not need this Transcarpathian Ukraine and Lviv region, even if Russia is the strongest state in the world. Not needed when. Let the Poles and the Hungarians gorge themselves on it and poison themselves or press it to the nail so that the Westerners of Ukraine will remember the times of the USSR as life in paradise.
Second . Belarusians with the rest of the Ukrainians without Westerners, will live in a common state with Russia peacefully and quieter than water below the grass only when Russia is strong. Like any Chechens, Dagestanis or Ingush. And if the times come again in Russia as under Gorbachev and Yeltsin, then sensing the weakness of Russia, they will again begin to raise a storm. Only a strong Russia is respected and appreciated.
Third . The most dangerous Bolsheviks instilled notorious friendship of peoples during the USSR taught everyone, except Belarus, that Russia is obliged to subsidize them and create a showcase for the USSR, so that Russia would forget about itself. So unification is possible now only on the basis of how who will make bed and will sleep. Enough robbing Russia and hoping for a freebie. If you create a new Empire of Russia, then create it in such a way that the freeloaders would no longer roll their lips ...

[Kushka]

IN-IN-IN! Let's! Ceremonial! On a rake!
Your clumsy "know-how" - "here we play, here
we wrap fish "deceive only you.
I know that the fisherman (the hunters are maddened,
fishermen - quietly ") even if he flew 20 times with
fishing, on the 21st piously believes - there will be a mad bite!
But this is not fishing! Meat grinders are not enough for you?
Or like that soldier - "why think, you need to shake!"?
Well, it was already, it was many times!

[Kushka]

Belarusians with the rest of the Ukrainians without Westerners, will live in a common state with Russia peacefully and quieter than water below the grass only when Russia is strong . Like everyones .... First - do you yourself want to be "everyone" (khokhl, chukhonts, chock, chaldon, ara)?
You can not answer.
The second - strong - how is it? on every corner "office", "organs", general surveillance, sexotes?
Half of the country is sitting, half of the country is guarding?
How many loafers are you going to charge to Ukraine (they won't produce anything
will they - only eat, drink, dress, arm themselves) in harnesses and in civilian clothes, in order to "block" the territory and population, three times the size of Belarus?
Won the Russian government was going to import 5 million foreign workers, demographics
also negative - where are you going to get this contingent from? Buryatov, or what?
And who will work for their maintenance - these 5 million gasterbayters?
And consider the time frame, this is not for a year or two. AGAIN! The Bolsheviks solved this problem
(by the most radical methods!) starting in 1918 and up to 1937! Dekulakization, Collectivization, Holodomor. What did you get? OUN, UPA !.
They continued in 1945 until 1953 (the last of the caches was smoked).
And the leaders were hunted throughout Europe, more than one thousand. dollars Sudoplatov let him down.
And make no mistake about western Ukraine.
Read about the OUN Luhansk Provid, its activities, number,
combat path (Luhansk is in the east of Ukraine, if that)
In general, do not read. On a rake, step march!

[Skif]

I think the hemorrhoids were more than benefits. And, as for the "center of influence", then why would it be? Becoming a part of Russia does not mean becoming a center of influence in Europe.

[Kushka]

You're right.
Recently, about a man, a member of the ATO, who
wandered around the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine with a grenade, one responsible person
commented: "There are 500 thousand (!) ATO participants in Ukraine, and a grenade
on the market it costs UAH 50 "(less than $ 2).
I do not know if the north has counted 2 outfit for Ukraine, but a task awaits him
# 2 - where will he go to these 0,5 million? Let him count the number of "places of deprivation of liberty,
expenses for food, heating, lighting, etc., etc., including salaries
staff (idlers who will not produce anything) with all
the winter, summer food and other buns they rely on
(I don't know what the "guardians" are supposed to do there), but there will be a LOT of them
(there is, after all, a "continuous production process", three-shift).
Maybe he was going to send them to the Kolyma (they are building the second branch)?
So again, "on the neck" of mother Russia! And the "Bendera"
the uprising in the camps (when they were laid by Solzhenitsyn) where they staged?
Not in the outback of Russia?
Or he "thinks" that they all live in Lviv (he does not plan to take it)
and everyone will be there? Or North 2 thinks they're just cups
will they throw? And on the benches (in the gunsmiths of the ATC departments), taking off your sneakers
will they climb?
Amazing "frivolity", but in simple terms - blah-blah-blah .... on the couch.
And you explain to me, a Baltic naval sailor, 70 years old,
"part of Russia", it's like - again without a surname - hey you, hahol, come here!
(I don't need to be the center of Europe, I just want to be human).
And not a hakhlom, a lump, a Chukhonts, ara, azer - without a name and surname.

[babylon]

What are you talking about !!? Has Russia grown wiser?))) Used to be guided by religion and not like now the dough which is concentrated in a certain number of hands

[Kittymoore]

You do not say? The gentry from the Ukrainian lands did not differ in any way from their Polish and Lithuanian colleagues in terms of their status.
The exception was the Cossacks, but there were contradictions about the register (loot) and religion (commonplace for that time).

And slaves, whether Polish, Lithuanian, Ukrainian or Russian, were the third class, regardless of their ethnicity.

By the way, are you aware that a significant part of the Polish nobility did not even consider themselves Poles, and even less did they associate themselves with the local "cattle"?

Khmelnitsky, by the way, represented the interests of a part of the Cossacks, not the whole people.
Let me remind you that he fought for the Cossack privileges, and not for the "Russian land."

And now, if Ukraine becomes a member of the EU, then now the second grade for the Ukrainians will be for happiness.

Come on, pump it up. In Europe (including Russia), no one divides people into varieties, well, except for kitchen chauvinists.
They used to talk about Polish plumbers, second-class people. Now about the Ukrainians.
This is all nonsense.

[zloybond]

As part of the Chernigov regiment, my ancestor left and swore allegiance to the Moscow Tsar. The family settled in Evdakovo, and then moved to Mikhnovo, from where they eventually went on the Khiva campaign.

[Chervony Biker]

A village in the Chernihiv region - Drozdovka. My grandfather used to tell a long time ago that the family, besides the surname, was called "Martynovichi" - the descendants of Martyn Nebaba. In general, it is very strange to read in the comments the arguments who are Russian and who are Ukrainians ... Here are a lot of dialects, traditions and a lot of things that are completely different in Mother Russia, but all Russians! For me, a Ukrainian - Ukraine is the geographical self-name of the south of Russia.

[Kushka]

Beautiful. But we read about this in Gogol.
Only if he came to life (and he died "badly"), would he die of horror
again. IN EVERYONE (north 2 for some reason thinks that only in Lviv,
and he "is not going to take it") the village of Ukraine today has
"Walk of Fame" (remember, the war in Donbass has been going on for 7 years, 13 thousand killed)
- Heroes are solemnly buried there. They have mothers, fathers, wives, children,
classmates, brothers .......
North 2 these cemeteries (in Kharkov, Zaporozhye, Poltava) are going to
- plow, break fountains, hang portraits of the leaders of EdRa
- what is he going to do with them?
As a boy, at the age of 17 (1969) I went to the Carpathians as a tourist (climbing
Goverlu) In Uzhgorod I saw the panel "25 years of Soviet power" - stunned -
Komsomolets! At school I learned poetry for the 40th anniversary! Didn't get it right away.
Then they took me to the war memorial - again stunned - the rows of graves:
"Red Army soldier Ivanov, died in battle with Ukrainian nationalists. 1948." ?????
And finally, we climbed the Obavskaya mountain (and the Carpathians are gentle mountains,
Mount Chaika, for example). This mountain at the top has a vertical cliff - an abyss.
At the edge there are crosses made of fragments. The guide (Hungarian) explains - the NKVD detachment drove
here two brothers. They hugged and jumped down. Someone erected a monument to them
- a large figured cast-iron cross (and they dragged it off!)
into the abyss. So, for 20 years it has been thrown off, and for 20 years someone has been going down, raising it.
and carefully puts each fragment in the same place. And this is in the USSR! In 1969!

[Chervony Biker]

you can shortly answer - so what? Everything that you said has already happened in post-war Germany. More precisely, the defeated and re-educated Third Reich. There, too - in every family and much more. But the country Germany very quickly and, most importantly, reliably, cleared itself of the "national" and is building its own socialism quite successfully. Which today is in many ways more than it was in the Union. And it’s the same with today's Ukraine. The decisive factor is not the number of victims, but their meaninglessness. And they will ask for them from the post-Maidan rulers. A war with no chance of victory is a crime, especially when you send other people's children and husbands to it. History repeats itself. The UPA warriors, at first, hoped for the power of German weapons. Then, sitting in the caches until the end of the 50s, they believed their Western curators that the "councils" would burn up in the atomic flame of the Third World War. They were deceived ... Now the pro-government media are repeating like a mantra - America, America ... Who is it intended for? All my acquaintances, of those who sincerely welcomed the Maidan, are now bashfully averting their eyes. Here you talked about the cross, which was put in place. And I'll tell you about the red stars that, in spite of everything, are tinted on the monuments. I see a way out - if theirs and our historical memory do not overlap.

[Kushka]

Who will they ask? Maybe you are tired of the show in Nuremberg performed
narcissistic Vyshinsky, but when I read that only our
40 million (and for a circle for 100) pulled up ONLY 9 (out of 11) old ones,
and those are far from the top, it distorts me. FARCE!
(Not to mention that thousands of them remained generals,
received not weak positions and lived to be 95 years old.)
Your example with stars is not correct - no one for tinting the stars
does not poison anyone to the Kolyma and does not even expel from the university.
There are a lot of monuments (tanks, Katyushas), and even there was material on the VO
recently about them in Ukraine - everything is in order there.
I argued with North 2 just about the victims, you do not have their number
defining. And to Russian mothers (Ukrainian to you, apparently on the side)
Will you look in the eyes later?
A war without a chance of victory - is the USSR a crime in Afghanistan?
Palestinians in Israel (fighting for half a century) - a crime?
Crimean Tatars in the USSR - Dzhemilev was imprisoned five times - a criminal?
How do you know what who was hoping for - Vasil Stus, a poet, was tortured in
camp already under Gorbachev, Levko Lukyanenko - 26 years behind bars, starting
since 1961 - who was he hoping for and who deceived him?
This simplification approach is simple and convenient.
It turns out that you may have convictions, and all the others are only six.
You do not admit that other people may have beliefs (and not such
like you) and they can sit in camps for them, fight, fight, die,
even left alone?
And why? After all, there are darkness examples - the IRA, ISIS, the Young Guard, finally,
and one Japanese with the Americans until 1972 in the jungle "fought" and he
did not write in his memoirs that he was deceived.

[alexey alexeyev_4]

All the same, I washed the black dog white ... They put a hero's halo on the thug and the oath-breaker. Alexei Mikhailovich did not want to mess with him. And the Berestets battle was described as blurred. Drapanul Bogdan from the battlefield as soon as it smelled of fried. Then he dumped everything on the Tatars. Here it is Ukrainian in all its glory

[Lev.D]

The author, forgive my ignorance. I would like to clarify in 1651 where Ukraine existed?

[Kushka]

I can recommend Boplan maps (1648)

[Igor Litvin]

In the lower right corner. This is a map of 1700, I do not think that Ukraine has gone very far from that place. By the way, there is also the "Cossack Region", and "Krasnaya Polskaya Rus" is present.

[Igor Litvin]

Along the way - there is "White Russia, she is Lithuanian" almost in the middle ...

[The pilot's son]

Let's start with who signed a treaty with whom in 1654. This should be the starting point for determining Hu is Hu. How did the parties themselves define themselves in the contract?

[Uma palata]

In the 17th century, neither the state nor the territory "Ukraine" existed. Outskirts of the Russian state - yes, it was, Little Russia
The author's events take place in the country "Ukraine". Why is that?