"We need changes": The State Duma proposed to change the arms legislation

The State Duma proposed to revise weapons legislation against the background of the events that took place in Perm. According to State Duma deputy Alexander Khinshtein, the requirements for those who acquire weapons should be tightened.

The Russian deputy commented on the shooting incident in Perm, where a first-year student of the Perm university shot people. According to Khinshtein, the legislation in this area should be tightened. In particular, it is necessary to control the acquisition of weapons, it is necessary to control the purpose of the purchase of weapons.

Weapon legislation in Russia must change - more control is needed over what, in fact, an individual citizen acquires a barrel for

- leads the newspaper "SIGHT" words of the deputy.

Khinshtein does not advocate raising the age for obtaining a license for a weapon, but suggests paying attention to the purpose of acquiring it. That is, law enforcement officers need to carefully study the reasons for buying weapons. It's one thing when a hunter gets a gun, and another when an 18-year-old young man living in a city.

(...) It is necessary to conceptually define an approach to understanding why a citizen needs a weapon in general. It is clear when a hunter gets a rifle (...) when an 18-year-old city dweller buys a smoothbore gun? There are already questions

- said the deputy.

Khinshtein recalled that there are other means for self-defense, including non-lethal ones, and there is no need to buy hunting weapons for this. In addition, the deputy again asked to pay attention to the protection of educational institutions.

Comments

[Lisa90]

It is high time. But looking at the Wild West, ours are beginning to imitate.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Lisa90

It's time.

Time for what? To recognize the complete failure of education and the degradation of morality in society?

Quote: Lisa90

But looking at the Wild West, ours are beginning to imitate.

Like: who has money - they hire guards, and the rest of the "consolation" of the police, the National Guard, iron doors and bars on the windows? Perhaps the Soviets of People's Deputies should be returned to the police too?

[Akuzenka]

Perhaps the Soviets of People's Deputies should be returned to the police too?

Gold words. But alas.
For me, Khinshtein is right, control is needed, but different. For example, for the expenses of the deputies. And for what purpose do they adopt certain laws. And to punish with the confiscation of property not only the deputy, but all relatives, up to the seventh generation, if they bring harm to the majority of the population, no matter what - direct or indirect.

[VORON538]

Truly, golden words. I mean the depots and their income.

[military_cat]

The State Duma proposed to change the weapon legislation

What, ban Lancasters and paradoxes? And, they were banned six months ago. By the way, so what, did it help?

[Akuzenka]

The only thing left to do is to ban chokes and half-cues.

[Shurik70]

requirements for those who acquire weapons should be tightened

Problems alone are never solved.
It is necessary not only tighten screening out inadequate, but also facilitate purchase for adequate citizens.

Plus, to oblige those who have weapons to be able to use them and take care of them (for example, to allow only members of shooting clubs to have weapons, and in these clubs people must regularly shoot from their weapons)

Plus, to change the law on the use of self-defense. And now they are afraid even of the one who comes at you with a knife, to shoot, in court they will say, maybe the person wanted to cut off a watermelon for himself, but you killed him. And it is necessary, if you shot someone in your house and say that this is a bandit, by the presumption of innocence, consider your words true, and let the prosecutor prove that this is not so, and not a lawyer.

[raw174]

Quote: Shurik70

Problems alone are never solved.

This problem (with arrows) cannot be solved in principle, since it is impossible not only to eradicate the inadequate, but also to track them, because they are mentally healthy. This problem is a given, which is exacerbated by the media. In fact, in the USSR they did the right thing that such cases were hushed up. This is the case when awareness is harmful.

[Archon]

All "arrows" would easily pass the adequacy test. So it's hard to implement.

[Shurik70]

Quote: Archon

All "arrows" would easily pass the adequacy test. So it's hard to implement.

Almost all "shooters" put such posts on the Internet long before the shooting that it is quite possible to calculate them. In advance.
It is clear that a psychiatrist cannot do this. But AI that monitors the Internet can.
Also, the AI ​​may well detect a person walking through the city with a gun, identify his name and calculate an approximate route in order to send a police squad to intercept.
We need to develop AI as soon as possible, and global control, in the image of China. So that there is not a single alley on the street that is not monitored by the global control system. This will destroy street crime as well as petty thieves.

[Archon]

You can dream up.
Imagine a situation that you have legalized the short-barreled.
If at the same time it can be bought after the age of 21, then the students will not have it. If from 18, then it will not be either, because you cannot be on the territory of the university with a weapon or take it to the storage room. It is unlikely that teachers will be allowed to have weapons at the university, and if they are allowed, then few of them will want to carry them with them, this is extra weight and size. You still need to know how to use weapons, practice, and teaching can take up all the time.
You can't put a lot of guards at the university, there are two at the main entrance, one at the other entrances. The guards are usually men in suits at best, not military men in armor, helmets, and a submachine gun. In general, the scenario can repeat itself even if personal weapons proliferate.

[Shurik70]

Quote: Archon

Imagine a situation that you have legalized the short-barreled.
If at the same time it can be bought after 21 years, then students will not have it

If there are cameras everywhere and the AI ​​controlling them, he will find a guy with a gun walking through the city.

[Archon]

But this is another question and a real step towards safety.

[Barberry25]

and it was also forbidden to have a weapon until 21, and then have only a double-barreled gun for another 2 years - .. it turns out they did the right thing ..

[not main]

Quote: military_cat

What, ban Lancasters and paradoxes? And, they were banned six months ago. By the way, so what, did it help?

As you can see, it did not help! Yes, in fact, in both cases, the shooting was carried out from a smooth barrel! And here ... remember the "distant" 70s, so what? Any citizen could buy a smooth barrel without bothering with the "permission", "strange" but there was no shooting! Only at that time it was possible to join the society of hunters only after two recommendations of experienced hunters! And no psychiatrist will make a diagnosis in a couple of minutes! But the people who lived with him would never have given a recommendation! So can we just remember? And this is more effective than bans!

[Revival]

You write about efficiency, and if at the forefront we assume a ban on weapons for the population as the ultimate goal, under any pretext and for any reason, then the ban on everything and everything becomes clear.

[bk316]

Only at that time it was possible to join the society of hunters only after two recommendations of experienced hunters!

This should be done, but this is also not a panacea.

Yes, in fact, in both cases, the shooting was carried out from a smooth barrel!

It would be necessary to prohibit multiple charges, as I, as the owner of 4 smooth bore, I can say for sure for hunting pompovuhi, semiautomatic devices and so on. are not suitable. Even having such good ones as Boar-12 and Mr-153, I still go hunting with Izhik.



In general, a set of measures is needed here: recommendations and precinct and tightening the rules of sale and limiting semiautomatic devices and cameras and AI ..... It cannot be solved in one fell swoop.

[vitvit123]

Regarding the confiscation of property from relatives, I have also been talking about this for a long time (it needs to be worked out there), but I will also add: a ban on holding any managerial positions of the culprit, and maybe even on his children, so that for life he could have no one in submission. A ban on the opening of any legal entities .. you can think of something else ...

[Lara Croft]

Quote: vitvit123

Regarding the confiscation of property from relatives, I have also been talking about this for a long time (it needs to be worked out there), but I will also add: a ban on holding any managerial positions of the culprit, and maybe even on his children, so that for life he could have no one in submission. A ban on the opening of any legal entities .. you can think of something else ...

Yes, up to the 7th generation of all relatives to shoot in order to satisfy your ego, even under Stalin, the son did not answer for his father, let you come to power, again all of Russia would be drenched in blood ... moral ...

[vitvit123]

And that Stalin is some kind of standard? ... for a start ..
In my opinion, you are not adequate, so there is no desire to communicate with you ...
Well, the moral ... I will return it to you and would have added something else years ago, but to each his own ..

[alystan]

The deputies should be allowed to be elected only for one term, they can get the second only from the prosecutor. And then some all their life sitting in the State Duma, not climbing out of "comfortable" seats. This same Khinshtein, at least seven inches in the forehead, let him go and benefit in his main profession (only I'm afraid that he has the same diploma of a lawyer-attorney as the guarantor). And who constantly re-elects them, the diaspora?
Yesterday, on some branch along this arrow, I expressed the following seditious thought: “What if this shooting was some kind of distracting maneuver for the people in power, for whom losing power is like death (for themselves) ?! Few remembers a tank in the Kremlin, but there are those who do not remember this moment at all? ? Also, how to have several apartments or cars, which is bad in one?

[Akuzenka]

It is necessary for the deputies to be allowed to be elected only for one term, the second they can receive only from the prosecutor.

Based on the results of the first one?

[hrych]

First of all, it's surprising who voted for this Khinstein? Secondly, in his message, the maniac wrote that if he had not acquired a firearm, he would have committed a terrorist attack in a different way, hitting a car, etc. But all the rest are deprived of the right to protection from one madman. It was lucky that the traffic cop came in and shot the bastard, otherwise he would have gone and shot him further while the building was cordoned off, and the riot police were preparing for the assault. Whether the guards had weapons or just those around them, they would have fought back, saved their lives and prevented mass murder. No, these Khinsteins do the opposite. When it is necessary to allow, these are prohibited. A criminal going to kill will always find a weapon. Khinstein has an official certificate of mental disorder, he judges people by himself. He fought with law enforcement officers, protecting the bandits, and they released a sad video from the sauna. It's very sad. In the Internet everything is available.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: hrych

No, these Khinsteins do the opposite. When it is necessary to allow, these forbid

And they appear in public only when accompanied by guards and do not travel on buses.

[keeper03]

And Kazan was not enough for him, just now they are going to change the legislation ?!
He also wrote that "human society hurts," and therefore you need to think, at least, and perhaps start investing in culture, education, and not in covid-mindedness and similar wasteful projects!

[Flank]

Whether the guards had weapons or just those around them, they would have fought back

Well, in the United States, people around them have weapons. Tee gives zhezh who rebuff ah not?

[hrych]

Quote: Flanke

Tee gives zhezh who rebuff ah not?

They give and how. The gun gives even a woman a chance to fight off the gramilla. On average, about a thousand attacking criminals are liquidated by citizens every year. It would be a thousand endured, including corpses, and so minus a thousand dangerous criminals. Legal weapons account for less than 1% of crimes.

[-Dmitry-]

They give and how. The gun gives even a woman a chance to fight off the gramila.

That is, if she knows how to shoot from him. Otherwise, the gun gives you a chance to shoot someone third, not the criminal.

On average, about a thousand attacking criminals are liquidated by citizens every year.

Citizens of which country? You do not confuse the United States with Russia. They have a 200 year old weapons culture. Shooting clubs are like mud. And they own weapons better. Do many OOP owners practice shooting in Russia? I think there are units.

[hrych]

Russia has a 500-year history of weaponry. The territory of Russia is shaped by the culture of gun ownership. The woman does not shoot those around her, attacks are made when there are no others. And in a dangerous place, a person prepares in advance for self-defense. And if she owns a weapon, she knows how to use it and admits the possibility of using it. And even if one out of a thousand was able to defend itself, for her sake it is enough to allow the short-barreled ownership right. In Poland and the Baltic states, short-barrels are allowed and they drink no less, but it turned out to be more and nothing. It doesn't hurt to hear about the problems. No. our people should be humiliated in front of their neighbors, their cultural level should be considered below an illiterate African American. After all, he was sitting in a collar 200 years ago, the culture of owning weapons was recruited.

[-Dmitry-]

Russia has a 500-year history of weaponry. The territory of Russia is shaped by the culture of gun ownership.

Demagoguery, such demagoguery :) Ordinary citizens in Russia could only own weapons for a relatively short period of time. No longer after the October Revolution. For 70 years, there was no weapon culture. I'm talking now about the legal wearing and use of COPs. And you are now saying that she will appear from the bay? :)

The woman does not shoot others, attacks are made when there are no others.

Yes, of course, of course :) Where do you get such fairy tales from? :)

In Poland and the Baltic states, short-barrels are allowed and they drink no less, but it turned out to be more and nothing. It is not painful to hear about the problems.

You can't hear it.

No. our people must be humiliated in front of their neighbors, their cultural level should be considered below an illiterate African American

Again demagoguery flooded.

[Revival]

In essence, you apparently have nothing to answer.

[-Dmitry-]

In essence, you apparently have nothing to answer.

In my opinion, this is nothing to you. Actually, the whole dispute arose because of this:

Whether the guards had weapons or just those around them, they would have fought back

In essence, I answered - nowhere in the world where COPs are allowed, this did not help in any way.

[Revival]

1) they wrote to you:
"In Poland and the Baltic states, short-barrels are allowed and they drink no less, but it turned out to be more and nothing. It doesn't hurt to hear about the problems."

Your Answer:
"You can't hear that."

How do you confirm?
Apparently you hear, and what are these horrific examples?

2) they wrote to you:
"No. Our people should be humiliated in front of their neighbors, their cultural level should be considered below an illiterate African American."

Your Answer:
"Again demagoguery flooded."

That is why I wrote to you that your answer is rather demagoguery, you did not object anything specifically, unless, of course, you do not count as the Argument "You Can't Hear It".

[dmmyak40]

In the 30s. the possession of weapons was almost free: many civilians had the right to carry and use, from the manager of the factory to the director of the plant.

[hrych]

After the war, award-winning barrels went, if not hundreds of thousands. For it was a wide practice to reward soldiers with trophies first. What a long way to go, in the Meeting Place ..., at Ivan Sergeevich Gruzdev, Bayard was lying in the locker and nothing. Then, the Khrushchevshchyna concluded that the victorious people are not supposed to have trunks.

[ccsr]

Quote: hrych

After the war, award-winning barrels went, if not hundreds of thousands.

After the war, my father was the temporary secretary of the military tribunal for officers of the Pacific Fleet and Far Eastern Military District (he was seconded from the unit for a certain period), and he told me that a lot of front-line soldiers suffered precisely because the weapons were kept at home. Not only was it stolen, inadvertently used with consequences, but also the murders for various reasons were from personal weapons, which is why they began to tighten the screws, which saved some from prison. So it was not the best solution at the time. By the way, in Moscow, I kept a hunting rifle with the officer on duty - there was a section in the closet specially allocated there.

[hrych]

After the war, probably a million of illegal barrels went around, soldiers brought trophies, and even more so in places of battles, barrels and cartridges are still lying around, have decayed. But nothing, they didn't shoot each other. And the officers were already supposed to be staffed, if they got drunk in the service or planned something, then the business would do it anyway.

[Nexcom]

by the 30s after the civil one, the population had already hidden trunks immeasurably. up to machine guns dug under a haystack or somewhere else.
In topic:
"Neighbor, why are you constantly watering a bed of cucumbers with oil with machine oil, cucumbers will die and wither!"
"Come on, the main thing is that the machine gun and rifle do not rust."

[hhurik]

It was like that, they handed out revolvers to everyone

[Revival]

Yes, as soon as the topic of a weapon permit comes up, so a huge number of "patriots" suddenly become ardent Russophobes, and start a mantra that they say Moldovans, Americans, etc. are one thing, they are not an example for us, since in Russia they say the people are flawed, inadequate, criminal, all at once will shoot each other.
This is how their true attitude towards the people and the country becomes clear.

[-Dmitry-]

Yes, as soon as the topic of a weapon permit comes up, so a huge number of "patriots" suddenly become ardent Russophobes, and start a mantra that they say Moldovans, Americans, etc. are one thing, they are not an example for us, since in Russia they say the people are flawed, inadequate, criminal, all at once will shoot each other.
This is how their true attitude towards the people and the country becomes clear.

Where have you seen Russophobia? The same Razvedos and Cascade TV are Russophobes ?! :)))

[Revival]

I see a classic Russophobia in the fact that when, in particular, they give an example about the fact that cops were allowed in Moldova and it's okay, then in response, cries begin that this is not an example for us, our people are such that by all means all a friend will be shot , on the streets there will be random firing and solid corpses, well, here is such a saying, flawed people and that's it

[-Dmitry-]

I see a classic Russophobia in the fact that when, in particular, they give an example about the fact that cops were allowed in Moldova and it's okay, then in response, cries begin that this is not an example for us, our people are such that by all means all a friend will be shot , on the streets there will be random firing and solid corpses, well, here is such a saying, flawed people and that's it

Well, that is, when Razvedos says everything is absolutely the same, this is not Russophobia, but when an opponent is on the Internet, is it just plain Russophobia? :)
Demagoguery is common.

[Revival]

For me, it doesn't matter at all what the intelligence officer says there.
I do not compare the opinions of intelligence officers and members of the forum.
I did not take into account any intelligence in my commentary at all.
I read the comment and reply to it.

[-Dmitry-]

Well then, you're just a demagogue.

[Revival]

I realized long ago that you have nothing to answer in essence.
Your last comment is especially informative.

[-Dmitry-]

I realized long ago that you have nothing to answer in essence.
Your last comment is especially informative.

In essence, I answered long ago, but what to do if you are breeding demagoguery about Russophobia and so on. Google what demagoguery is. You are a brilliant representative of a demagogue.

[Nexcom]

You are absolutely right.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Revival

Yes, as soon as the topic of a weapon permit comes up, so a huge number of "patriots" suddenly become ardent Russophobes, and start a mantra that they say Moldovans, Americans, etc. are one thing, they are not an example for us, since in Russia they say the people are flawed, inadequate, criminal, all at once will shoot each other.
This is how their true attitude towards the people and the country becomes clear.

You probably still do not interpret the essence of the problem that the opponents of the legalization of short-barrels want to convey. The problem is not in the "inferiority" of the people, but in the inferiority of the state policy pursued in relation to the people in terms of the formation of its worldview and moral qualities.
Well, in the USSR, there were no such problems with shooting and mass executions. In the 50s and early 60s, in the shops, it was practically possible to buy a smooth barrel or a small shoe for change. We knew where my father had guns and cartridges, but somehow we never thought of going to shoot someone. In schools, one watchman's grandmother was enough to maintain order. Now they have spawned more foolishness that kindergartens and educational institutions should be surrounded by barbed wire with guards and dogs as zones around the perimeter, and ordinary citizens should go to the bakery in helmets, bulletproof vests and with pistols in order to shoot from "kids" and neighbors. In order for people to walk calmly, it is first of all necessary to heal society itself, and not to distribute trunks, thereby increasing the level of aggression, when a bullet will put an end to any dispute. Now they are beating to death for a parking space with a car key fob, and give them a pistol, then generally a khan. Of course, there is a prospect in this case that in the first couple of three years most of the fools will shoot and society will become cleaner and calmer, but the fact is that these fools will shoot a bunch of innocent people and it is not at all a fact that you will be faster and will not share the fate of those unlucky.

[Usher]

Quote: Nyrobsky

Quote: Revival

Yes, as soon as the topic of a weapon permit comes up, so a huge number of "patriots" suddenly become ardent Russophobes, and start a mantra that they say Moldovans, Americans, etc. are one thing, they are not an example for us, since in Russia they say the people are flawed, inadequate, criminal, all at once will shoot each other.
This is how their true attitude towards the people and the country becomes clear.

You probably still do not interpret the essence of the problem that the opponents of the legalization of short-barrels want to convey. The problem is not in the "inferiority" of the people, but in the inferiority of the state policy pursued in relation to the people in terms of the formation of its worldview and moral qualities.
Well, in the USSR, there were no such problems with shooting and mass executions. In the 50s and early 60s, in the shops, it was practically possible to buy a smooth barrel or a small shoe for change. We knew where my father had guns and cartridges, but somehow we never thought of going to shoot someone. In schools, one watchman's grandmother was enough to maintain order. Now they have spawned more foolishness that kindergartens and educational institutions should be surrounded by barbed wire with guards and dogs as zones around the perimeter, and ordinary citizens should go to the bakery in helmets, bulletproof vests and with pistols in order to shoot from "kids" and neighbors. In order for people to walk calmly, it is first of all necessary to heal society itself, and not to distribute trunks, thereby increasing the level of aggression, when a bullet will put an end to any dispute. Now they are beating to death for a parking space with a car key fob, and give them a pistol, then generally a khan. Of course, there is a prospect in this case that in the first couple of three years most of the fools will shoot and society will become cleaner and calmer, but the fact is that these fools will shoot a bunch of innocent people and it is not at all a fact that you will be faster and will not share the fate of those unlucky.

I agree 100% that those who support legalization have never gone outside or live in an aquarium.

[Nexcom]

Well, wait, no one spoke about inferiority here.
they only talked about the fact that in conflict situations, citizens increasingly began to use self-defense weapons for attack, the same rubber arrows. and it's true.
In Yekaterinburg, there have already been two cases over the past year when drunken ghouls (among them a former security official) started shooting from the windows of their apartments at citizens. and by no means from rubber arrows. the last case - his wife threw a "shooter", he got drunk and fired 70 shots at people from the window. like, thank God, he didn't shoot anyone to death. but two children walking in the yard were seriously injured.

that's what it was about.

Shl from both "shooters" in Yekaterinburg weapons were legally acquired. Moreover, more than one trunk. Both were taken alive.

[Revival]

A bunch of examples can be cited for this, about how "they broke into the pensioners, tortured where the money is, etc.", stuck on a bench in the park, and so on. "pensioners" have zero chances without weapons.
Examples are different and you can pick up heaps and wagons for any opinion.

[Nexcom]

Are you looking for my comments on purpose? exhale and relax. all the best.

[Revival]

I received a notification, and I answered.
All the best..

[-Dmitry-]

They said everything exactly. However, such characters do not understand this.

[Usher]

Quote: hrych

Russia has a 500-year history of weaponry. The territory of Russia is shaped by the culture of gun ownership. The woman does not shoot those around her, attacks are made when there are no others. And in a dangerous place, a person prepares in advance for self-defense. And if she owns a weapon, she knows how to use it and admits the possibility of using it. And even if one out of a thousand was able to defend itself, for her sake it is enough to allow the short-barreled ownership right. In Poland and the Baltic states, short-barrels are allowed and they drink no less, but it turned out to be more and nothing. It doesn't hurt to hear about the problems. No. our people should be humiliated in front of their neighbors, their cultural level should be considered below an illiterate African American. After all, he was sitting in a collar 200 years ago, the culture of owning weapons was recruited.

What are you carrying? Hand face. It feels like you only go to the store on the street. What is the culture of gun ownership? What are you talking about? There is no such culture in nature !!!! From the word at all. I will say right away, do not go to a fortune-teller, if everyone has a weapon, they will shoot 20% of the population or more. And among this "shot" population there will be children, old people and, in general, "leftist" people. Have you ever "boozed" on the street on holidays? How many times have you had "skirmishes", fights? I’m a rather calm person, but I already received a luley in the club and gave me a luley, not to mention the street. Only if there is a weapon, I probably would not talk to you. How many fights are in traffic jams and on highways? Open your eyes and don't talk nonsense about "gun culture". What you attribute to culture is nothing more than local traditions.

[hrych]

So you don't have to judge by yourself. I don't drink on the street and I didn't go to the club with a barrel. Firstly, the club must be allowed through the turnstile, the crowd of people must also be guarded. And to seize not only the trunks, but also the knives. The statistics of the slaughtered are more. With regard to the threshold for the use of weapons, it rises due to responsibility. But injuries have a low threshold of use, because it is believed that it is not fatal and will not cause injury. We have millions of long-barreled firearms in our hands (almost 7 million), moreover, 11 million unregistered ones, and over the years, a couple of three freaks will do things, well, who will be shot instead of an elk on the hunt. The statistics are scanty. Why? The application threshold is high. That's all. In the Caucasus, if there is no AK, you are not a man. And even there, there is no lawlessness, they know what cannot be applied. Finish off, possibly a family. This is where culture comes in. And such theoreticians like you, having no real experience, begin to bliss.

[Usher]

You don't even know what I mean. If you didn't drink on the streets and all that, how can you judge the people and people in general? I wrote above that "are you on the street only to the store?" The harsh truth of life is this. What on the street you can get in the face for nothing and for nothing. Especially now, when the generation of the 90s has grown up, and "yazhepapki" and "yazhemamki" do not hesitate to use force for the most insignificant reason. I am not saying that it is dangerous here. But if you start to conflict, then I am 80% sure that some kind of cattle will start waving their fists.
And you want all these people to have easier access to weapons?
On account of the fact that there is no lawlessness in the Caucasus, are you serious? Did you really fall from the moon recently? Try walking in the evening or at night at least in Pyatigorsk) You will find adventure, not to mention the Caucasus itself. I went there on a business trip to Dagestan.

[hrych]

So do not hang out in the evenings in Pyatigorsk. Although if a legal trunk, then roam Gopota, even in adolescence, is screened out by drives to the police, administrative officers and a criminal record, falls into the database of drug use, etc. so shish them, not the trunks. But normal, law-abiding citizens have the right to shoot this gopota, of course for the cause. So, in the evenings it will be calm, the gopota will squeeze the tail, including Pyatigorsk. I repeat, for the gifted, the criminal is armed and not constrained by the framework of the law and conscience. But the majority of citizens have the right to self-defense. The villains will partially subdue, abandon their intentions and take the path of order, partially will be shot, i.e. the percentage of livestock will be reduced. Already now, those detained for drugs and drunken driving, the license for hunting weapons is not renewed. This is an incentive to reject such violations. Those. possession of weapons, discipline. Naturally short-barreled with a probationary period with possession of a long-barreled or trauma, privilege for law enforcement officers and the intelligentsia, i.e. doctors, teachers, engineers and civil servants. Short-barrel ammunition, also limited damage, bullets without a core. Those. those that are supposed to be guards. There is not enough culture, so educate and raise its level, and what to spoil if there is a ban.

[Revival]

"on the street you can get in the face for nothing and for nothing."

And what do you suggest in this situation?
Just get kicked in the face and whine home?
Like, well, at least they didn't rape, but if ..
Well then, well, they didn't kill ...

[g1v2]

I wonder how you live. For 20 years now, I have definitely not received a blow in the face on the street. Probably you are doing something wrong? And in response, too, did not try to kick in the face? They say it helps.

[zenion]

Again they decided to rearrange the beds according to Feng Shui. And one woman said that under those early orders, not the beds were rearranged in this house, but those who lay in them, and this helped.

[g1v2]

That's just the way the brothel remained. Changing girls or rearranging beds - he was still a brothel. So what do you want to build? Brothel? Well, then you need to fight for the legalization of prostitution, not for the legalization of short-barrels. I would not be surprised if I soon see a series of articles on VO about how useful it is. And of course my favorite argument. "The authorities are afraid of the legalization of prostitution, because the people with gonorrhea are a proud people who are dangerous for this government."

[zenion]

So the brothel rules everything. Sometimes they call it a mess, but it's still a brothel. And you need to go there with long barrels and grenades will not interfere. Previously, the people called it - the All-Union mess. But then the same ones who created it ruled. They cannot get out of it, but they can help them - only drive them out. You can read what the mess is about where Schweik found Second Lieutenant Oak. In the mess there is a madam and of course the owner, but they can be named differently, even though you rearrange the beds, even though you rearrange them in the beds.

[saygon66]

- Not at all ... In the States, there are not so many who own weapons at the proper level ... And there are plenty of people who want to prohibit its circulation.
- The reluctance of PLO owners to train may be determined by the low level of street crime, including ... Otherwise, they would have visited the shooting gallery with zeal!

[-Dmitry-]

And it somehow helped the Americans to prevent such Columbines? This has never happened. ALWAYS criminals carried out their executions with impunity, well, before the arrival of the security forces.

[saygon66]

- The fact of the matter is that there is no way ... Perhaps the weapon simplifies the murder, but does not provoke it.
- An idle brain will find a way to carry out its sick plans ... Chikatilo, Skopinsky maniac and others did not have shotguns ... However, they were much successful in their actions ...

[Usher]

But if this kid didn't have a weapon, how many would he kill?

[saygon66]

- Is it a question of the number of those killed? If - "yes", then there is an urgent need to impose restrictions on the use of trucks ... and much more.

[zenion]

The whole point is that this is not terrorism, but reprisals. You reap what you sow. Sow the wind, reap the storm. And it started after the elections. We chose the wind.

[HaByxoDaBHocep]

He wrote, would not have received a gun permit, would have crashed into a crowd in a car

[Revival]

Well, if you can think of a lot of everyone, but the fact remains that one who has a weapon has a chance with its help to repulse a criminal who does not have one.

[-Dmitry-]

Well, if you can think of a lot of everyone, but the fact remains that one who has a weapon has a chance with its help to repulse a criminal who does not have one.

Even once in the world, the legalization of the Constitutional Court has not been able to prevent mass shootings. This is a fact!

[Revival]

So what?
Two parallel phenomena, as we see, do not prevent and do not contribute.

[-Dmitry-]

as we can see it does not prevent

Why are you arguing with me then? Do you call them a Russophobe? :)

and does not contribute.

Yes? And this shooter did not shoot directly from a legally acquired barrel? And in Kazan? And in the Crimea?

[Revival]

And what did he shoot from the cop, or did he not need it?

[-Dmitry-]

Quote: Revival

And what did he shoot from the cop, or did he do it for him?

They all fired from a legally purchased barrel. Moreover, a long-barreled, in the case of a KSom, everything would be even much simpler.

[Romka47]

Mass shootings are carried out in schools, universities, etc., these places in the same Amenrika are called the "FREE GUNS" zone, you cannot be there with civilian weapons, even if you have a permit and a license. Therefore, yes, this will not save from mass shootings, in some cases, attacks by a criminal on an individual person help very much. Therefore, if this law does not protect the school from shooting, this does not mean that it will not protect the mass of citizens in individual episodes.

[-Dmitry-]

Mass shootings are carried out in schools, universities, etc., these places in the same Amenrika are called the "FREE GUNS" zone, you cannot be there with civilian weapons, even if you have a permit and a license. Therefore, yes, this will not save from mass shootings, in some cases, attacks by a criminal on an individual person help very much.

Actually, this Hollivar branch began because the supporters of legalization wrote here:

Whether the guards had weapons or just those around them, they would have fought back, saved their lives and prevented mass murder.

As always, "but it would be Aarruzheee, then the maniac would be killed at once by the ba!".

Therefore, if this law does not protect the school from being shot, this does not mean that it will not protect the mass of citizens in individual episodes.

Not a fact, far from a fact. At least at the present time, it is impossible to legalize in any way, simply because there is no necessary regulatory framework. Until the limits of the BUT are clearly and clearly prescribed in the law, then the one who will defend with the help of the COP runs the risk of sitting down. And it is very strong. If he does not kill on the spot, then the chances to sit down grow exponentially - because the "victim" will bring a bunch of certificates about how good he is, and even a couple of witnesses will lead that the shooter was drunk and behaved inappropriately. And if someone else suffers, then the criminal case will be 100%.
This is here all sorts of hamsters supporters of COPs do not understand anything. They would only have been given the COP, but they do not care what must first be prescribed in the law when and how they should be applied. The current interpretation of BUT is very vague.

[saygon66]

- Sometimes "sitting down" is equal to "staying alive" ... From prison they enter ... from the cemetery - never.

[-Dmitry-]

-Sometimes "sitting down" is equal to "staying alive" ... From prison they enter ... from the cemetery - never.

This will not happen sometimes, but in 60-70% of cases.

[zenion]

The normative base will be when the authorities cease to be afraid of the occupied people.

[Usher]

Quote: Revival

Well, if you can think of a lot of everyone, but the fact remains that one who has a weapon has a chance with its help to repulse a criminal who does not have one.

RZHU in golosinu! Are you in the Wild West?

[-Dmitry-]

They give and how. The gun gives even a woman a chance to fight off the gramilla. On average, about a thousand attacking criminals are liquidated by citizens every year. It would be a thousand endured, including corpses, and so minus a thousand dangerous criminals. Legal weapons account for less than 1% of crimes.

Well, okay, but somehow I did not see that the weapon helped prevent such massacres. As you know, the shooting in schools and universities started from there and I don’t remember something. not a single casewhen the criminal was neutralized by ordinary citizens.

[saygon66]

- "Gunfree" zones ... Very few cases. when the scoundrels attack in places where they can be rebuffed ... How many times did they shoot in police stations (both in theirs and in ours)? Dozens? Hardly ... Military bases? And in general, any protected objects? Weapon shops? Shooting ranges? And offices, schools and cinemas, cafes - often ... There are armed people banned ...

[-Dmitry-]

- "Gunfree" zones ...
And offices, schools and cinemas, cafes - often ... There are armed people banned ...

Why are there gunfree zones? :) Do you think that with the legalization of COPs, we will have something differently? :))))

[saygon66]

- We also have such zones ... For example, places where mass events are held ... Carrying weapons is prohibited there ... even for those who have such a right, and often an obligation. And yes ... I think it will be different ... working in the security, back in the 90s, I saw how casino visitors handed over the barrels for "temporary storage" ... The contingent is very, very specific! We have a different attitude to weapons. More sober, or something ... Perhaps, in the understanding of many, weapons are an attribute of war and death of people, and not a dashing shootout of guys in black and white stetsons ...
- Even more - in our country, often, a person who has the right and obligation to use weapons in an appropriate situation does not do this ... And, often, he dies.

[-Dmitry-]

And yes ... I think it will be different ... working in the security, back in the 90s, I saw how casino visitors handed over the barrels for "temporary storage" ... We have a different attitude to weapons.

You are apparently from another planet. Himself personally on the hunt saw how one "hunter", by blueprint, grabbed his SCS, since his other friends were more adequate, they calmed him down. So that we will have differently, I very much doubt it.

[saygon66]

- Aha! So after all "calmed down"! Began to be adequate still more ...

[-Dmitry-]

- Aha! So after all "calmed down"! Began to be adequate still more ...

And with a weapon, one inadequate is enough, especially in the gunfree zones.

[saygon66]

- Gunfree is also an ambiguous phenomenon ... It is not at all clear how this could have arisen in the shooting States. Lovely delirium of flower children! "Be peaceful - and they will also be peaceful towards you!" (WITH) . But it does not add up ...

[-Dmitry-]

- Gunfree is also an ambiguous phenomenon ... It is not at all clear how this could have arisen in the shooting States.

Do you think schools, universities, colleges should not be a gunfree zone? That is, in your opinion, it will be completely normal when 18-year-olds, in fact children, will walk with weapons ????

[saygon66]

- Not children, but qualified security!
- Until "the lion lies down next to the lamb," and everyone who punches a friend in the face will expose his own face to the blow ...

[-Dmitry-]

Here is what one respected person (Razvedos) said about this:

It seemed to me that two years of the pandemic should have made any self-respecting commentator an expert in medicine, which means that it was necessary to learn that it is symptomatic treatment that is one of the main methods of medical care.
Elimination of the cause of the disease is not always possible, and moreover, its identification and prevention does not cancel the need for symptomatic treatment.
This I mean that the cause of the tragedy in Perm cannot be eliminated.
Its reason is the one who writes these lines and those who read them
Its cause is HUMAN.
And do not bleat about your sanity and law-abidingness, because both of these aspects are actually momentary.
So, the armed security of educational institutions, adequate medical examination, toughening of arms legislation and even a "teacher's pistol" - all this is nothing more than symptomatic treatment.
It's just that some "pills" are to our taste, while others are not. And the side effects of "their" reception can be very different.
Now to the point.
Only the professionalism of ordinary police officers - Konstantin Kalinin in particular, stopped the nightmare that was happening.
And only the professionalism of all links in the chain - doctors on commissions, staff of the LRO and security, teachers - are able, if not to exclude such tragedies, then to a significant extent to minimize the likelihood of their recurrence.
You can talk for a very long time about “it seems to me” and gather expert clowns for endless debates, but you can already impute the practice of regular exercises in all educational institutions of the Country - this does not require any funds, but only public knowledge and a desire to really change something.

On this, I agree with him. Legalization of COPs will not help here in any way, but it can easily aggravate!

[saygon66]

- It's hard to disagree ...

[Korax71]

following your logic when conscripting, for example, into the army, it should also be forbidden from the kho to issue weapons to personnel, because the bulk are all the same 18-year-old children. in the presence of arms and ammunition, cases of shooting at colleagues are very rare. from my experience I can to tell you that even when a man with an automatic weapon sprinkles a flask on a drunken bench, in 99% of cases it is not responsibility before the law or the admonitions of comrades that keeps him from using the weapon for other purposes, but the appearance of another person with exactly the same weapons, removed from the safety lock and ready for use. I agree with you that before legalizing the carrying of a short-barreled gun, it is necessary to completely revise the legislative framework on the responsibility and procedure for the use of weapons and, preferably, so that this does not have double interpretations, but the main deterrent will still remain the presence of exactly the same trunk in the apponent.

[-Dmitry-]

following your logic when conscripting, for example, into the army, it should also be banned from kho

Demagogy.

Firstly, there is strict discipline and KMB in the army. Do you imagine something similar at the university? Me not.

From my own experience, I can tell you that even when a man with an automatic weapon has a flask on a drunken bench, in 99% of cases it is not responsibility before the law or admonitions of comrades that keeps him from using the weapon for other purposes, but the appearance of another person with exactly the same weapon removed from the safety lock and ready for use.

Also exaggeration and demagoguery. The offender will not be bound by the rules of the law and the weapon will already be at the ready. A student with a weapon, in a belt or axillary holster will be 100% unprepared. To get the barrel out of the holster, to send the cartridge 100% will not have time. And I'm 90% sure that the overwhelming majority of KSov owners will score on shooting training and training in drawing weapons. Moreover, the speed of snatching and preparing the KSa for battle, it does not depend on shooting training - this needs to be trained. So all these shouts and bleating, that the killer would have been killed on the way, or during the shooting, is nonsense.
In addition, the same Razvedos and Kaskad correctly raised the topic that during a mass shooting, chaos, panic and confusion reign and in such a situation, it will be difficult for an average person with a weapon to figure out where the shooting is taking place, and even correctly assess the situation - he is not a police officer , the National Guard - he is simply not prepared for this. Moreover, given that in a stressful situation, hormones in the blood go off scale, and this affects the speed of reaction and the accuracy of shooting.

and the procedure for using weapons and, preferably, so that it does not have dual interpretations, but the main deterrent will still remain the presence of exactly the same barrel in the appointee.

Why do you think that criminals will not have weapons? In the event of an attack, the advantage will almost always be with them, and the chance that they will be with the COP will increase.

[Korax71]

I understand that you have a very distant attitude to the same army, on the militia, they do not teach how to handle weapons, this can be called an introductory course. Handling weapons is fire, tactical training, where they really teach the methods and methods of firing, preparation for battle, etc., according to your logic, almost all the scumbags who decided to arrange a bloodbath for the civilian population are quite often busy with fire training, and their nerves are steel ropes. the presence of a weapon from a potential victim never guarantees 100% safety, but the chance, that you will not be stuffed with lead smoothly flows from 100 to 50, which already increases the chances of survival. instances. about the cascade, a year ago I watched his vidos on countermeasures to the enemy with a knife, I personally have nothing against him, but when he showed the re-throws.watch, because. in this case, it is easier to give the knife to the enemy. you persistently make of ghouls, such as a Perm shooter, some kind of Rambo, forgetting about the most important detail that they attack absolutely unarmed people, with zero chances of counteraction. I’m not the only one trying to explain to you, that shooting at a crowd of unarmed people and the same crowd, but with the possibility of opening return fire, are two huge differences. In order to carry on a conversation more substantively, it would be nice at least once, from our own experience, to enter into fire contact with the enemy.

[-Dmitry-]

I understand that you have a very distant attitude towards the same army, at the militia, they do not teach how to use weapons, this can be called an introductory course.

And who spoke for fire training at the KMB? It was about the discipline and subordination of the junior to the senior.

almost all the scumbags who decided to arrange a bloodbath for the civilian population are quite often busy with fire preparation, and their nerves are steel ropes. the presence of a weapon from a potential victim never guarantees 100% safety,

Isn't that so? The number of victims speaks just about it. Have any of the ordinary citizens neutralized at least one scumbag, at least somewhere? Nowhere and never has this been.

but the chance that you will not be stuffed with lead smoothly flows from 100 to 50, which already increases the chances of survival

Do you have any documented statistics? Or is it just your speculation? I think the latter.

forgetting about the most important detail, that they attack absolutely unarmed people, with zero chances of counteraction. I'm not the only one trying to explain to you that shooting at a crowd of unarmed people and the same crowd, but with the possibility of opening return fire, are two huge differences.

I explain once again, for those who are especially dull, even if The Constitutional Court will be legalized in any educational institution will not be allowed to carry weapons. Even the USA understands this. So again: it wouldn't help anyone.

in order to conduct a conversation more substantively, it would be nice at least once, on our own experience, to enter into fire contact with the enemy.

We are talking about the legalization of the COP and the possibility of defense with the help of it - what does it have to do with our own experience of fire contact ????? All the same fans of KSov love to breed demagoguery.
I often go hunting and know what cases there are with the use of weapons, and how some hunters relate to the rules of transportation, storage, and handling of weapons.

[saygon66]

- By the way, here's about subordination in the Army: https: //news.mail.ru/incident/48022632/? Exp_id = 899 & frommail = 1
- The army is no longer the same as 30 years ago ... Hysterical mothers from the "committees of soldiers' mothers" pretty shit to the Ministry of Defense ...

[-Dmitry-]

.Arutyunov (reconnaissance) - "jacket" who served in the reconnaissance regiment and Lyon

You assert as if you are a field officer. And in general, the "jacket" is unlikely to serve for 7 years.
But I strongly doubt this - because, as a rule, people who deal with weapons do not have such a rosy attitude to legalization, because they look at it comprehensively, and not from the point of view that if I had a pistol, I would then shoot all the bad ones.

[Korax71]

all your comments are based on assumptions like "unlikely", "in my opinion", etc. do you have hunting experience, are there many in your statistics of lethal cases of the use of legal firearms? there are enough cases of careless handling of weapons among people who have this weapon as a working tool. you have my data. polls on the attitude of people who own weapons to the legalization of cops?

[/ Quote]
And who spoke for fire training at the KMB? It was about the discipline and subordination of the junior to the senior.

that is, you have never been explained or told about your duties in training, work, etc., do you follow the rules of conduct in public places? what does the principle of subordinating a younger to an elder have to do with it? how does this stop you from using weapons against your colleagues. armed forces, weapons against military personnel were used in most cases only when the attacker had it and was absent or unavailable for the victims. in theory, you can try, but there is one big thing, but the psycho will definitely not put the whole change of guard, but he will be countered with a probability of 200%, even though the psycho opens fire first, all his advantage will end with the first produced shot, then the quantitative superiority of firepower will decide. as your respected "expert" says

And only the professionalism of all links in the chain - doctors on commissions, staff of the LRO and security, teachers - are able, if not to exclude such tragedies, then to a significant extent to minimize the likelihood of their recurrence. [Quote]

in fact, it will not help in any way, because it will not be difficult for those who intend to commit a murder to find an illegal trunk, build their own hands, or even easier to take an ax and chop their victims into cabbage in the same way. The arrows go to the woodpecker to shoot the sheep, but it is quite possible for people who can respond to his aggression proportionally. In very clinical cases, minimize the number of victims.

[-Dmitry-]

that is, you have never been explained or told about your duties in training, work, etc.? do you follow the rules of conduct in public places? what does the principle of subordinating the younger to the elder have to do with it?

Another demagogic trick. What did I do??? It was about the university and about the possibility of wearing KSs by students. For some reason you dragged the army - they say it is possible in the army, why it is not possible at the university. There is no discipline in the university, there is no control over the weapon, there is no certainty that the owners of the cops generally know how to handle them. This is the difference.

how this stops the use of weapons against colleagues. For example, the same armed forces, weapons against military personnel were used in most cases only when the attacker had it and was not available or was not available to the victims.

The reasons for using are different. But the methods of application, yes, are similar. In all cases, this is always unexpected.

can only stop the feeling of self-preservation and the knowledge that arrows like the Penza woodpecker are going to shoot the sheep, but quite themselves people who can respond to his aggression proportionally. In very clinical cases, minimize the number of victims.

In Perm, the shooter did not intend to survive. In most cases, the maniacs who carry out mass shootings do not hope to survive. So it won't stop them.
But there can be a lot of incidents. Suppose all the same, the Constitutional Court allowed, and among the students there are several people with pistols. One of them met with a maniac and, let's say, shot him. Then another owner of a firearm appears and without understanding the situation - when he sees an armed man and a corpse not far from him, he shoots and kills or seriously wounds the rescuer. Then a police squad arrives and uses weapons on the second shooter. Which one? And this can be very easy in such
situation.

all your comments are based on assumptions like "unlikely", "in my opinion", etc.

You might think your comments are based solely on the practice of using CSR in self-defense. You, too, have some conjectures and the attraction of the experience of conscript service by the ears. The army and the citizen, where everyone they meet can have a COP are completely different things - it's not even warm and soft.

[SHOPPING MALL]

Quote: -Dmitry-

- Aha! So after all "calmed down"! Began to be adequate still more ...

And with a weapon, one inadequate is enough, especially in the gunfree zones.

And what will he do? If everyone is armed, then the fools will quickly end. And if everyone is disarmed, then everyone who still gets to the weapon will be overwhelmed by more normal people. Something I have not heard proposals to disarm the police after another police officer opens fire or turns out to be a maniac.

[-Dmitry-]

And what will he do? If everyone is armed, then the fools will quickly end.

Something does not end in the USA, however, as well as in other countries where COPs are allowed.

[alystan]

Do you propose to add to your inadequate in more than our adequate? He may not think about special zones where weapons are prohibited, but about the fact that people are everywhere (live, work, just relax ...) and, first of all, they need to be "taken care of", and not about gun lovers! Better then create all sorts of zones for them ...

[saygon66]

- So they are in the zones ... There are plenty of restrictions!

[hrych]

Refer to the experience of Israel, where the shooting of mass terrorists by citizens has a rich experience.

[-Dmitry-]

Refer to the experience of Israel, where the shooting of mass terrorists by citizens has a rich experience.

Well ? Where are the examples?

[alystan]

Are you kidding, there are only normal Jews, and everyone around is at least potential terrorists ?!

[Kushka]

There were both (offhand) "from there" - an attack on a church in a small US town,
the criminal was caught up and neutralized by a former special forces soldier and he also called the police.
Another such person, seeing from his window, either a robber or a rapist in the window of the house opposite, took the trunk and calmly filled it up.

[-Dmitry-]

the criminal was caught up and neutralized by a former special forces soldier and he also called the police.

Did he have a cop with which he neutralized him? Or he neutralized him because he former commandos?

Another such person, seeing from his window, either a robber or a rapist in the window of the house opposite, took the trunk and calmly filled it up.

And where does the mass executions have to do with it?

[alystan]

Not life, but a continuous field for survival - some appear with weapons, they frighten a little or even shoot, others start chasing them ...
Veselukha, bliiin (thanks to the unforgettable Zadornov)! He was 500% right - everything is in the West.
And you want us to have the same solid fun?

[Alexander Seklitsky]

Quote: hrych

The gun gives even a woman a chance to fight off the gramila

The most fierce nonsense and self-deception. Even soldiers are taught to be under fire. Any civilian, especially a woman, is morally not ready to shoot to kill. This pistol will simply be taken away from her or shot earlier.

[hrych]

Give her a chance, that's it, but it’s not up to you to screw it up or not. I personally know such ladies that they can shoot and make a test

[alystan]

Maybe it's easier to send you (with these ladies) to the wild West - you are like a school or training courses for life according to their laws and in the conditions of their life are ready to work ?!

[Alexander Seklitsky]

a chance for what? How many ladies have injuries today, for example? And how many cases of its successful application? Do not confuse warm with soft. The attacker always has the advantage, he is ready and he shoots first. And even more so a psychopath who decided to die. Even a prepared person will be taken by surprise, and even an ordinary lady is much against a psycho with a shotgun

[hrych]

Quote: Alexander Seklitsky

a chance for what?

Chance for that. Don't be a lamb to the slaughter. A young traffic cop was found and neutralized the reptile. In the DPS, few would have dared to do this, based on the same heifers. There would be a fighter with weapons among the guys, guards and teachers, even though the lady would have fought. He went to be a god and was not ready for resistance. According to statistics, at least one in 10 is a fighter and ready to fight, has extreme thinking and a firm hand. But don't go naked for a shotgun.

[Alexander Seklitsky]

Students are not the target audience that can have a weapon at all. I already wrote in the comments that it is necessary to change the very system of checking candidates for weapons. Introduce in-depth psychological testing, as when applying for a job in law enforcement agencies, introduce a polygraph test. Especially if a candidate of spermotoxic age and a nifiga is not a hunter, because if such a test, this psychopath would immediately fall into the wrong of a pencil.

[hrych]

Quote: Alexander Seklitsky

Introduce in-depth psychological testing, as when applying for a job in law enforcement agencies, introduce a polygraph test.

All this is complete nonsense, according to the note of this madman, he passed the tests. And psychologists cut the normal, but every rabble passes the test and again the reason for corruption and nepotism. And so already the age of purchase was raised to 21 years, and this one just managed to buy it earlier. There are several dozen teachers in the building, there is a person responsible for the state of emergency and there was security. And all with bare hands. These people do not have obstacles in their weapons, but give them away to everyone. They not only teach, but are also responsible for the safety of students. And again the guys jumped and were crippled, but what if there was a fire or some other disaster? Where is the possibility of evacuation, where are the ropes for descent, etc.

[Alexander Seklitsky]

what tests did he pass? There are no tests. I went to a psychiatrist, put a stamp and left, came to a narcologist, pee in a jar and left .... that's all.

[hrych]

He himself described that he was sent by a psychiatrist for tests, she was embarrassed, something. Those. already speaks of deviations, normal ones are not sent for the test. A jar of drugs is also useful.

[hhurik]

Women - they can EVERYTHING ... apparently, you just do not communicate with them much.

[your1970]

Quote: hrych

Quote: Flanke

Tee gives zhezh who rebuff ah not?

They give and how. The gun gives even a woman a chance to fight off the gramilla. On average, about a thousand attacking criminals are liquidated by citizens every year. It would be a thousand endured, including corpses, and so minus a thousand dangerous criminals. Legal weapons account for less than 1% of crimes.

400 million barrels - 1000 shot? Come on, it's not even funny ... you look at the statistics of attacks then for a start - more than 2 million in 2019 ...
And of these 2 million, they killed as many as 1000 ... 0% defended themselves ... yeah ..

[tralflot1832]

Alexander Khinshtein won in Samara, in a single-seat district, against Mikhail Abdalkin, born 1988, the Communist Party secretary in the Samara region.

[-Dmitry-]

Quote: hrych

Whether the guards had weapons or just those around them, they would have fought back, saved their lives and prevented mass murder.

In this case, there could have been more victims, elementary - the "surrounding" or "guards" in stress pull out their barrel, shoot and hit other "people", and the killer kills the shooter. Or do you think that others and guards are constantly spending time in the shooting range, improving their weapon handling skills? This is only in the movies, a person who shoots once a year, shoots and hits exclusively the enemy, but in life everything is different. Maniacs just can quite confidently wield a weapon.

[hrych]

The guards are obliged to practice at the shooting range. The owner of the weapon must be able to handle it. These are elementary concepts. Many have completed military service, including teachers and a tank can drive, but are defenseless in such a situation. There is a constitutional right to self-defense, so give funds, do not declare.

[-Dmitry-]

The guards are obliged to practice at the shooting range.

I beg you :))) Do we have many private security companies exercising? :) Even the URB shoot only when it is necessary to pass the test. And I think there is no need to explain how the tests are passed. It's like a shooter - psychos also should not get litsuha, and then ROCH, but in this case, he got it.

The owner of the weapon must be able to handle it. These are elementary concepts

So after all, the owner of the weapon should not commit a crime with it. However, they do.

Many have completed military service, including teachers and a tank can drive, but are defenseless in such a situation.

And that everyone without exception was on a call, shooting from a short-barreled gun? I will tell you one secret - from those who served urgent, only a few were shooting from the cops! Shooting from a cop and a machine gun are two different things.

[Xscorpion]

Quote: hrych

The guards are obliged to practice at the shooting range. The owner of the weapon must be able to handle it. These are elementary concepts. Many have completed military service, including teachers and a tank can drive, but are defenseless in such a situation. There is a constitutional right to self-defense, so give funds, do not declare.

Well, how could a weapon help a deceased guard when he didn't even have time to tell his mother? even two armed guards even unfasten the holster, let alone get the weapon, remove the safety lock, drive the cartridge into the chamber, aim the weapon at the target and shoot. For the same reason, a weapon for self-defense will never help, for the reason that an attack in 99,99 percent of cases will be sudden, and with a knife at the throat or with a broken head after a beat, no one will even remember that that he has a weapon, but there will be a thousand times more cases of attacks on people with the aim of taking possession of weapons, since criminals will deliberately attack citizens in order to take away their weapons. as you can imagine, he won't come up and won't ask for a wallet, he'll just break his head out of the bushes with a bat or a crowbar, or calmly pass a knife under the ribs, and that's all, and there will be zero benefit from the barrel. Weapons will only help you when you are at home You sit, and they break the door to you with threats. During this time you calmly take the barrel and prepare it for shooting. And for this, an old double-barreled gun is enough, and not just a short barrel.

[Alexander Seklitsky]

sober thoughts, but the couch fighters did not appreciate the look, they will pass

[-Dmitry-]

sober thoughts, but the couch fighters did not appreciate the look, they will pass

Sofa they are.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Xscorpion

But not as you imagine, he will not come up and will not ask for a wallet, he will simply break his head from the bushes with a bat or a crowbar, or calmly pass the knife under the ribs, and that's all, and there will be zero benefit from the trunk.

Are you proposing to disarm the police? After all, you can do a policeman.

[Xscorpion]

You write nonsense. Police officers regularly undergo training in handling weapons and special means, on the legal issues of their use, they have more powers to use weapons, they carry them only when on duty, the police outfit consists of at least 2-3 people, and in one place there may be several patrols, they have radio communication, the duty officer always knows where they are. And it is extremely difficult to think of a situation when a policeman will be rummaging around alone in the dark, near some bushes. it will already be in hand, ready for use.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Xscorpion

Police officers are regularly trained in the use of weapons and special equipment

And that it will somehow help if

Quote: Dart2027

he will simply break his head out of the bushes with a bat or a tire iron, or calmly pass a knife under the ribs

While there someone realizes that something is wrong, and already look for fistulas.
I'm not kidding, but just following this logic.

[Xscorpion]

Seriously? From the bushes someone will rush with a tire iron or a knife at the ready on 2-3 armed policemen? And they cannot do anything? You are comparing the incomparable. Either some divine dandelion with a barrel in his pocket goes about his business every day, then prepared police officers are only on duty.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Xscorpion

2-3 armed policemen?

And they do not go alone at all, but only in a group and only with weapons at the ready? Yes.

[saygon66]

“The guards in schools are usually very old people ... earning money for retirement. They are not psychologically ready to solve any problems. Often they have only one responsibility - to press the "panic button" in time. Security is a serious job, especially the security of public places.

[Revival]

With the same probability, the offender shoots and misses the guard, and the guard shoots and hits the offender.
What a one way fortune telling.

But what is certain is that if the guard does not have a weapon, then only the criminal shoots.

[Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.]

If the people had a short-barrel of this type, walking openly with a gun through the city and, moreover, shooting at passers-by and cars, they were filled up even before they approached the institute.

[vl903]

Quote: -Dmitry-

Quote: hrych

Whether the guards had weapons or just those around them, they would have fought back, saved their lives and prevented mass murder.

In this case, there could have been more victims, elementary - the "surrounding" or "guards" in stress pull out their barrel, shoot and hit other "people", and the killer kills the shooter. Or do you think that others and guards are constantly spending time in the shooting range, improving their weapon handling skills? This is only in the movies, a person who shoots once a year, shoots and hits exclusively the enemy, but in life everything is different. Maniacs just can quite confidently wield a weapon.

you have typical Munich syndrome.
if you like, well, substitute your neck, let it cut you.
and other people should not be deprived of the opportunity to fight.

[GELEZNII_KAPUT]

First of all, it's surprising who voted for this Khinstein? Secondly, in his message, the maniac wrote that if he had not acquired a firearm, he would have committed a terrorist attack in a different way, hitting a car, etc. But all the rest are deprived of the right to protection from one madman.

In his message, he wrote that this was not a terrorist attack, but just wanted to kill someone!

[Revival]

And he doesn't need someone to vote for him especially ...

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: hrych

Secondly, in his message, the maniac wrote that if he had not acquired a firearm, he would have committed a terrorist attack in another way, hitting a car, etc.

You are right, dear one. It's not about the weapon, it's about the head. But do not go to grandma, they will toughen up in arms, and in their heads, as devastation was cultivated, so it will be. The side effects of the consumer society, but no one talks about it.

[Akuzenka]

Khinstein has an official certificate of mental disorder, he judges people by himself

We have interesting legislation, the mentally ill are allowed to run the state! And you can't drive a car and own a weapon. Yes, a psycho driving will cause incredibly less harm (sorry) than a psycho in the chair of a State Duma deputy! Maybe Khinshtein will start to save ordinary citizens from himself!

[alystan]

The most surprising and strange thing is that he was shot by a traffic police officer who had no official and professional attitude to such events. Where are all the vaunted guardsmen guarding the urns with the ashes of our-your voices? Where is the OMON, special forces at last?
Got a well-aimed dps-sheep (or a trained one)?

[hrych]

This DPS officer apparently served in the army, he was assigned a service certificate, he passed the initial training at the police school, he passed the test in shooting and shooting constant. He filed an accident and they ran up to him and reported, just promptly and with an element of self-sacrifice rushed into the building, fulfilling his duty. While the services would have gathered and organized the cordon, he did the deed and saved the people who would have been killed by this maniac. Here the service has nothing to do with it, and he is part of these services, and not the worst part.

[alystan]

If PPP or DPS are involved, then only to "guard" the perimeter of some dangerous zone, that's all I wanted to say. But, I disagree with you, they have nothing to do with other services (special forces).

[hrych]

There is a Law on the Police and each employee is obliged to intervene and prevent illegal actions by using a service weapon, which the boy did. And the fact that he was inferior to the criminal in combat power was compensated by courage, determination and the ability to wield PM. His older friend did not go to the building, but this one did. Here the essence of the warrior manifested itself. Will go far.

[alystan]

The fact that he did not shy away and did not blunder - here he showed himself a fine fellow. I'm talking about those who are obliged to immediately arrive at the scene and take control of the situation.

[hrych]

This is a long time, and the outfit was close, always send mobile outfits of the PPS and DPS to the place. located closer to the scene. Actually why are they patrolling. And the forces, even the quick reaction forces, must get to the scene of the incident. The city is one million and stretches along the Kama, even driving with flashing lights for tens of minutes, and the traffic cop reacted in a matter of minutes, yes, this bastard had already snapped people, but was neutralized as quickly as possible anyway.

[Neohumanoyd]

What video from the sauna ?? About what???

[hrych]

Quote: Neogumanoyd

What video from the sauna ?? About what???

Google it, everything is there

[Barberry25]

"other people have weapons" .. and do many students and teachers of the university now have a license for a weapon?

[Moore]

Quote: hrych

Secondly, in his message, the maniac wrote that if he had not acquired a firearm, he would have committed a terrorist attack in another way, hitting a car, etc.

As a rule, all these scum, besides satisfying their inferiority complexes, want one thing: fame. To talk about them, even after their nasty death. Here is their weakness.
Yes, it is difficult in the modern world to ensure that at least the name of the terrorist does not appear in the news. But maybe you need to try?

[Serj197930]

It is impossible for those around them to have weapons in free carrying, our society is not ideal, full of cases with injuries, offended eyeballs from the Moscow Region, as an example. They didn't let them shove on the side of the road, so I jumped out with an injury, and other cases of shooting on the road ?! Armed guards are also not an option, who will control them? And where is the guarantee that the guard will not blow the roof, and he will not start shooting? It's very difficult to catch lonely psychotic people, and how does Khinshtein intend to find out why an 18-year-old guy needs a weapon? He said A but did not say B.

[bk316]

Whether the guards had weapons or just those around them, they would have fought back, saved their lives and prevented mass murder.

This is not how it works: in the United States, every second person has weapons, but the shooters are brought down by special forces and not by citizens.
It is definitely necessary to change the article of self-defense. If someone broke into my house, under no circumstances should I answer if I shoot him. Again, I must have the right to protect not only myself but also other people and property.

[SKVichyakow]

That's right, you have to start from the wrong end. Thanks to the collapse of education, failures in upbringing, arranged by the authorities and brought up at DOM-2, TNT, ... and what is happening is happening. And the authorities have only prohibitive measures.

[Irokez]

If everything is allowed, then there will be anarchy and then you will be the first to say where "the police are looking" and "it is necessary to adopt prohibitive laws."
Without prohibitive and restrictive measures, people will gradually roll off the coils and chaos will begin - this has already gone through perestroika.
And the fact that you need to work with young people and, moreover, from childhood I agree and instill in them patriotism and love for the Motherland (whatever it may be), and then no one will play in real wars with real weapons. In the meantime, there will be all sorts of Dom-2 TikToki and other hype nyashki where russophobes muddy the water, then the youth will be torn off and potentially dangerous.

[Revival]

Of course, it is necessary to instill patriotism, but children feel false and licentious.
If, after stories about how the country loves you, the child actually faces the opposite, then instilling patriotism will not work much

[Irokez]

And after your statements, it turns out that there is no need to instill love for the Motherland? That is, we must give up and go with the flow spitting on everything and even on the fact that the brains of our children are fueled by foreign media, HYIP and popular bloggers working against us and even our media are innocent agents inside.
Even if everything is bad and it seems that there is no origin - look for the positive and expand it while reducing the negative proportionally. Enemies are just waiting for you to fold your hands and come to terms with the negativity imposed on you and not raise your defenders and patriots.

[Revival]

"And after your statements, it turns out that there is no need to instill love for the Motherland?"

No.
My thought is that it is necessary to instill love for the Motherland, BUT BY WORK!
What is called a state, which "people have second oil" will not succeed!
Otherwise, with a sincere love for the Motherland, when interacting with ..... a conclusion may be formed that is too well known to be called

[SKVichyakow]

That is when the majors and the top will begin to be imprisoned for all their violations of the law of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, and not just ordinary citizens, when the telephone law disappears, when everyone is equal before the law, then no additional prohibitive laws will have to be adopted, the existing ones would work, and not like now. When there is impunity in the country at the top, which entails complete permissiveness, then what happens is what happens.

[Irokez]

Quote: SKVichyakow

When there is impunity in the country at the top, which entails complete permissiveness, then what happens is what happens.

You want to say that only in Russia and Ukraine is this, and the rest of the world is correct and law-abiding? Yes, everywhere there is cronyism, nepotism and mutually beneficial interests where the hand washes the hand, only in one country the left hand is more important, and in another the right one, but the essence does not change from this. Therefore, to omit Russia with such statements? Ukraine or someone else from the Slavs is not needed below the rest.

[SKVichyakow]

In this case, we are discussing what is happening with us, and not somewhere there.

[Irokez]

Quote: SKVichyakow

In this case, we are discussing what is happening with us, and not somewhere there.

This is a cunning maneuver of Russophobes. To say that the question is about our country, not about abroad. That is, they do not give a comparison, saying that it is bad in our country and sometimes referring to abroad, that it is like they have done so well, but this is the trick, that if you compare reasoning, then you need to cover everything so that there is a representation at least in in general about how we and them, and very often it turns out that we are still better (even on average in the world) than some highly civilized and hegemonic ones. But here at once a counterargument like we say only - "About our country" or "Abroad is different."
The fact of the matter is that without letting us compare, you will never understand whether we live well or badly, and without comparison, you can always say what is bad and what is being stolen from us (and only from us), they take bribes, they spit on laws, they do not honestly choose (but what about Trump was given a ride in the elections). We live in a global economy and politics, that's why compare globally, and not narrowly (local).

[SKVichyakow]

Horses, people mixed up in a heap ... Where did you get carried away? What are we talking about in the article? Or do you have a training manual in front of your eyes, and you scald it from cover to cover? I am writing that I do not care abroad, but you write, wait, let's discuss it too. You are like a United Russia party, you are talking about wheels, and you are talking about pumps. I see you are satisfied, and it is easier for you from what we have, like theirs. And this does not make me happy.

[Revival]

Feel better, just like that immediately from your opinion.
It turns out there is one thing everywhere ...
Well then we rejoice

[alystan]

Prohibitive in relation to the plebs, and for themselves loved ones, in any situation, they will "knock out" the necessary indulgences and preferences. How did they wriggle out with the alleged ban on holding foreign citizenship for the same deputies? And the law, which was supposed to be aimed at combating embezzlers and bribery, took and explained to us idiots that this is completely different and there is some irresistible force that does not allow our pure and holy officials to refuse these "gifts" !?

[SKVichyakow]

This is how they do everything, and everything, of course, only for the good of the people, for themselves, no, no. Until this can be changed, and there is no one to change, then everything they proposed looks like a fight against windmills.

[Mavrikiy]

Khinshtein does not advocate raising the age for obtaining a gun license, but suggests paying attention to the purpose of its acquisition. That is law enforcement officers need to carefully study the reasons for buying weapons. It's one thing when a hunter gets a gun, and another when an 18-year-old young man living in a city.

This is a more adequate solution.than toothless ... law enforcement agencies need to carefully study the reasons

In addition, the deputy again asked to pay attention to the protection of educational institutions.

What kind of deputy, such are the ideas.
Killed two guards, a little, we'll put five, on every corner?
A mad cat, a talk show host with spillikins in his ears, rushes about the studio: what pushed him, what are the reasons? This is the most important thing!
And the most important thing is that 8 people were killed and two dozen were injured, this is a terrorist attack.
And he went to work in a fascist superman helmet.
The law needs to be changed. Terrorists - the death penalty the terrorist's body is not given to the family, and is immediately destroyed in a cesspool.

[AUL]

Quote: Mavrikiy

Khinshtein does not advocate raising the age for obtaining a license for a weapon, but suggests paying attention to the purpose of acquiring it. That is, law enforcement officers need to carefully study the reasons for buying weapons. It's one thing when a hunter gets a gun, and another when an 18-year-old young man living in a city.

Does he even know what he is proposing? THOSE. to give the decision on the acquisition of weapons by a citizen in the clutches of our permitting structures? So that some kind of starley decides whether you really need a weapon, or if you can do it. Here he "studied" the objectives of the acquisition, and considered them frivolous. Maybe respectful. How are you feeling! And I would not be responsible for the decision. Well, they are happy! In such a place, you can become a millionaire in a month. An extremely corrupt proposal!

[Revival]

In fact, his proposal can only be implemented in the form of a complete ban on the purchase of weapons for the purpose of self-defense.

[Alexander Seklitsky]

Not necessary. He correctly says that it is necessary to carefully check the candidates who acquire weapons. Let them pass a lot of tests, at their own expense. For example, when I wanted to go to the traffic cops, I went through a very deep check on the psyche through the VVK. And many candidates "fell down" on it. , and moreover, I would stand on a pencil in a durk

[Revival]

"For example, when I wanted to go to the traffic cops, I went through a very deep check on the psyche through the VVK. And on it many candidates" fell down "And then something similar needs to be introduced."

An absolutely correct proposal.
Will not solve all problems, but the idea is correct

[Revival]

By law, this is not terrorism.
And then the term terrorism has already been dragged out, they mold it to the place and out of place

[alystan]

And why the hell is such a deputy needed, who does not see anything further than his nose, and if he sees anything, he does not understand deeply (well, he cannot understand the incomprehensible)?
There will be no weapons on hand, all these private security companies and other guards will not be needed. It's just like 2x2.
First, they sell weapons, and then they lead to the idea that there may be dangerous types among the "armed", from which one salvation is to defend themselves (with weapons) or to call specialists (PSCs) !?

[Alexander Seklitsky]

I would add that the body will be fed to pigs, which I think many Islamists will not be happy with.

[Dart2027]

Quote: ROSS 42

Perhaps the Soviets of People's Deputies should be returned to the police too?

And they strongly interfered with Chikatilo?

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Dart2027

And they strongly interfered with Chikatilo?

And here you screwed up your phrase for what purpose? There is enough without your yellow ...
Let's remember what high-profile murders the current police didn’t solve ... I didn’t hear that a policeman entered a department store and opened fire from a service weapon at customers.
My childhood friend graduated from law school and worked in the prosecutor's office. So he very clearly explained who and how prevented the investigators from conducting thorough investigations. In addition, the psychology of a maniac can be difficult to understand:

 Show / Hide text

[Dart2027]

Quote: ROSS 42

And here you screwed up your phrase for what purpose?

It is interesting.

Quote: ROSS 42

I did not hear that a policeman entered a department store and opened fire from a service weapon at customers.

If this were the case, the case would have been quickly hushed up.

Quote: ROSS 42

My childhood friend graduated from law school and worked in the prosecutor's office. So he very clearly explained who and how prevented the investigators from conducting thorough investigations.

So what? I do not ask who interfered with the investigators, I asked

Quote: Dart2027

And they strongly interfered with Chikatilo?

Don't want to answer? My answer is nothing. Like all other criminals (sane and not).
You are already completely tired of your whining about every occasion and your willingness to dance on the bones for the sake of your propaganda.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Dart2027

You are already completely tired of your whining about every occasion and your willingness to dance on the bones for the sake of your propaganda.

It is you here whining about and without. Apparently in the USSR they held you well by the bag? Will the will come?
It is simply unpleasant to enter into polemics with such people. I posted there a video with the confessions of the investigators in the case. They told why it is so hard to catch maniacs ...
In addition, if you know, then there was no DNA examination, as today, when the involvement of a suspect in a crime can be established with an accuracy of 99,99% ...
But you do not know this?

[Dart2027]

Quote: ROSS 42

It’s you whining here about and without.

Truth? I ask you if ideology helped a lot to fight psychos? Will the answer be yes?

Quote: ROSS 42

I posted there a video with the confessions of the investigators in the case. They told why it is so hard to catch maniacs.

Quote: Dart2027

So what? I do not ask who interfered with the investigators, I asked
Quote: Dart2027
And they strongly interfered with Chikatilo?

Was it hindered or not?

[Olddetractor]

Quote: ROSS 42:
I did not hear that a policeman entered a department store and opened fire from a service weapon at customers

On the night of April 27, 2009, police major Denis Yevsyukov opened fire near the Ostrov supermarket in Tsaritsyno. In the supermarket itself, Evsyukov continued to shoot. The police major also shot back from the arriving police squad, but was detained.
As a result, two people were killed, 22 were injured.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Olddetractor

On the night of April 27, 2009, police major Denis Evsyukov

I meant the militia of the USSR ... But I give you five for vigilance ...

[Olddetractor]

I would very much like it not to be, but alas ...

[alystan]

And there were many such Chikatils? How many of them are there now? Do you feel the difference?

[saygon66]

- Information about Chikatilo surfaced, if I am not mistaken, during the days of "glasnost" ... They were before that. but, for official use ... because the society of developed socialism could not give rise to such monsters, and there is no need to disturb the people .. "Sleep well, people of Baghdad! Everything is calm in Baghdad!" (C).

[tihonmarine]

Quote: ROSS 42

Time for what? To recognize the complete failure of education and the degradation of morality in society?

"Forty forty-ruble teachers can lead to complete decomposition not only of the group of homeless children, but also of any group"-Anton Semenovich Makarenko-.
This quote is one of the most memorable; the author of this book is one of the most prominent Soviet teachers of the XNUMXth century. Now his system is so popular in Europe, in Asian countries, but not relevant in Russia. This is now and today we can do everything - consciously forget, erase, not accept ...
Remember the last time you heard the mention of the name Makarenko?

[svp67]

Quote: ROSS 42

Time for what?

To radically resolve this issue - to close all schools and institutes and switch to home schooling ... apparently there is simply no other way out.

Quote: ROSS 42

Maybe the police get back

Oh, by the way, they reminded me ... I remember, last time there was one VERY big man,

he kicked in the chest with his heel and promised that his "guard" would resolve this issue ... And where were the National Guard officers during this incident, why did the traffic police officer rebuff and detain them, and not them?

[alystan]

He and the guardsmen apparently guarded the urns.

[bayard]

Quote: ROSS 42

Like: who has money - they hire a guard, and the rest of the "consolation" of the police, the National Guard, iron doors and bars on the windows?

In a slave-owning society, a free man THAT was different from any slave who had a weapon with him.
When any scumbag concocts something bad, the threat that anyone he meets, and any victim he chooses, may be armed no worse than himself, can seriously reduce the number of realized evil intentions.
Free people should be armed.
And criminals, psychos, minors (under 21), migrants, foreigners, should be deprived of such an opportunity.
And the right to self-defense, according to the principle: home is a fortress.
And there would be no question of any revelry of migrants in the country.
And any inadequate would think a hundred times before his actions, for each case can legally become the last.
Criminals are almost always sure that their victim / victims are unarmed.

[Usher]

Quote: ROSS 42

Quote: Lisa90

It's time.

Time for what? To recognize the complete failure of education and the degradation of morality in society?

Quote: Lisa90

But looking at the Wild West, ours are beginning to imitate.

Like: who has money - they hire guards, and the rest of the "consolation" of the police, the National Guard, iron doors and bars on the windows? Perhaps the Soviets of People's Deputies should be returned to the police too?

A moralist to the fig? Do not confuse warm and soft, why do some grow up normal, while others ""? Although the conditions are the same? Even those who have better conditions, more often "" grow.
What does the Council of People's Deputies have to do with it? What does the window grill have to do with it? Why are you all interfering in a heap? Here is a specific proposal, toughening the rules for the sale of weapons. I am all for it, I generally think that it is necessary to ban firearms. In addition to foresters, army, police and some ethnic groups who really live by hunting. And not these here all who go hunting "to rest", go to McDuck to rest or to paynoball. People are dying of hunger? What to go hunting?

[g1v2]

To destroy the country again? Throughout the 90s, you had the police and ...? The number of murders per 100 thousand inhabitants was steeper than in the favelas of Brazil. And now, for some reason, it was reduced by 6 times and the word "police" somehow could not prevent it. Didn't the Supreme Council ratify the Belovezhskaya Agreements by chance? And did not the communists of Russia voted for this? In general, leave your speeches until the next election. In these, you floated around as usual. Again you got the wrong people.

[knn54]

"The severity of Russian laws is mitigated by the non-binding nature of their execution" (ME Saltykov-Shchedrin).

[Finches]

Precisely, we are not the wild West ... We will be steeper if not tightening begins, but the legalization of all sorts of short-barrels and other poultry! At one fine moment, everything may get out of control and a riot will happen, and the Russian revolt, as it is well known, is "senseless and merciless."

[vl903]

Quote: Finches

Precisely, we are not the wild West ... We will be steeper if not tightening begins, but the legalization of all sorts of short-barrels and other poultry! At one fine moment, everything may get out of control and a riot will happen, and the Russian revolt, as it is well known, is "senseless and merciless."

there was not a single senseless revolt - they were all from the extreme necessity of survival when the ruined power drove the people to full priests!

[Irokez]

Quote: vl903

there was not a single senseless revolt - they were all from the extreme necessity of survival when the ruined power drove the people to full priests!

Please don't talk about spontaneous riots. For example, color revolutions - are they spontaneous or controlled by an invisible hand of the revolution?
The people should not be confused about spontaneous riots.

[vl903]

Quote: Irokez

Quote: vl903

there was not a single senseless revolt - they were all from the extreme necessity of survival when the ruined power drove the people to full priests!

Please don't talk about spontaneous riots. For example, color revolutions - are they spontaneous or controlled by an invisible hand of the revolution?
The people should not be confused about spontaneous riots.

the color revolution is a completely meaningful coup.
to understand you better, give an example of a senseless rebellion please, maybe I really missed something

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Irokez

are they spontaneous or controlled by an invisible hand of the revolution?

If your apartment is clean and dry, you won't have cockroaches.

[Irokez]

Quote: Ingvar 72

If your apartment is clean and dry, you won't have cockroaches.

The fact of the matter is that cockroaches love pure ecology, and if they are not there, then the envious neighbor will bring them to you on purpose.

[Doccor18]

Quote: Finches

one fine moment everything can get out of control and there will be a riot ...

That's right, they are afraid of him ... And strengthening / tightening / banning is all simpler and faster, and solves many problems, but not the main one. How many weapons used to be on hand, especially in the countryside. Almost every house has a trunk. Were there many mass raster images in schools / universities? I have not heard of any ... Children studied in circles, sections with teachers who TEACHED. What is the student doing now while his parents are at work? Sitting on social media? In what? And who knows ... How to solve this problem? Ban firearms? Can. It will solve the problem of murders in public places - no, it will not. A criminal armed with an ax or knives / machete in a crowded place is no less dangerous than with a gun.
So what can be done. In my opinion, it is necessary:
1. Many teenagers, for the sake of fleeting fame (hype), can do anything. Therefore, you need to minimize this "prominence". When all the media in the country shout about the criminal for a week, they pour oil into the fire of this hype.
2. It is necessary to strengthen the psychological support of the child at school / secondary school / university. To do this, the staff must have a professional psychologist, who, when meeting or through the website, can always ask any question of interest to the child, solve the problem. The psychologist can be the first to detect "alarm bells" in the deviation of the psyche, will work closely with the parents. But this specialist should not have a salary of 12,5 thousand rubles, but at least 4 times more.
3. Schools should revive the afternoon program. Now the "extended" is not preserved everywhere, and where it is, it is not available to everyone.
4. Development of free sections / circles available to most in schools, scientific societies in universities.

This will not change the entire system, will not eliminate the possibility of similar terrible crimes, but it will bear good results. And even if a couple of "not understood" teenagers, instead of a gun, go to buy glue and plastic, carried away by aircraft modeling - this is already a victory.

[vl903]

Quote: Doccor18

Quote: Finches

one fine moment everything can get out of control and there will be a riot ...

That's right, they are afraid of him ... And strengthening / tightening / banning is all simpler and faster, and solves many problems, but not the main one. How many weapons used to be on hand, especially in the countryside. Almost every house has a trunk. Were there many mass raster images in schools / universities? I have not heard of any ... Children studied in circles, sections with teachers who TEACHED. What is the student doing now while his parents are at work? Sitting on social media? In what? And who knows ... How to solve this problem? Ban firearms? Can. It will solve the problem of murders in public places - no, it will not. A criminal armed with an ax or knives / machete in a crowded place is no less dangerous than with a gun.
So what can be done. In my opinion, it is necessary:
1. Many teenagers, for the sake of fleeting fame (hype), can do anything. Therefore, you need to minimize this "prominence". When all the media in the country shout about the criminal for a week, they pour oil into the fire of this hype.
2. It is necessary to strengthen the psychological support of the child at school / secondary school / university. To do this, the staff must have a professional psychologist, who, when meeting or through the website, can always ask any question of interest to the child, solve the problem. The psychologist can be the first to detect "alarm bells" in the deviation of the psyche, will work closely with the parents. But this specialist should not have a salary of 12,5 thousand rubles, but at least 4 times more.
3. Schools should revive the afternoon program. Now the "extended" is not preserved everywhere, and where it is, it is not available to everyone.
4. Development of free sections / circles available to most in schools, scientific societies in universities.

This will not change the entire system, will not eliminate the possibility of similar terrible crimes, but it will bear good results. And even if a couple of "not understood" teenagers, instead of a gun, go to buy glue and plastic, carried away by aircraft modeling - this is already a victory.

absolutely agree

[Irokez]

You are speaking correctly and to the point.
But still it is necessary to limit or prohibit advertising of some aspects of life, some human feelings and pleasures. Remember what alcoholism and smoking was like when advertising of tobacco and alcohol was allowed and it was sold in every kiosk, but then it was banned and the situation became much better.
Therefore, I believe that it is still necessary to remove from the media any propaganda of a luxurious lifestyle where "buy and sell", "a career at the expense of others", "you deserve it", "live while young", well, "Love everyone and whatever you want "like" think you're a boy or a girl. This is such a hidden and imperceptible level of implementation of negative feelings and desires when it seems to be okay, but when it rushes from all sides and drips onto the brains, it means that it is possible and necessary to do it and it seems that no one is to blame.

[saygon66]

- Our arms turnover is legal! Not free - yes! Like wearing! Illegal arms trafficking is present, probably, in any country in the world ... Even if there is no legal one at all.

[Revival]

I understand that you consider the people of Russia, a priori criminal, wild, flawed?

[Finches]

To me, as a Russian person, your epithets even in a nightmare would not have entered my head, but I will answer - no - Razdy, freedom-loving and unpredictable!

[alystan]

Revolt, dear, this is something uncontrollable, which means that for solving such a problem, the solution is useless!

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Lisa90

It is high time. But looking at the Wild West, ours are beginning to imitate.

Khinshtein is simple. As if an 18 year old city dweller couldn't be a hunter. Well, if you forbid him to buy a gun, he will take a wheelbarrow and drive into a stop with people. What is the reason? Treating symptoms is pointless

[Irokez]

There is a different bookkeeping counting on the ban than it seems at first glance.
Look, if there are 4 hungry wolves in the forest (we will assume that they bring death to others), then they will catch and kill four bunnies, but if there is one less wolf, then already one bunny will live.
So with a weapon (knife, fork, pistol, gun) if there is one unit less, then there will be no death from this unit. That's all the mathematics is logically correct. Of course, a fork and a knife cannot be excluded from life, but the rest is quite possible and there will be logically more living people, and fewer deaths.
Think logically and you will come to the same. And the symptoms can be treated if it does not reach through the head, then it is necessary to treat it through the ass, so that it reaches the head.

[vl903]

Quote: Irokez

There is a different bookkeeping counting on the ban than it seems at first glance.
Look, if there are 4 hungry wolves in the forest (we will assume that they bring death to others), then they will catch and kill four bunnies, but if there is one less wolf, then already one bunny will live.
So with a weapon (knife, fork, pistol, gun) if there is one unit less, then there will be no death from this unit. That's all the mathematics is logically correct. Of course, a fork and a knife cannot be excluded from life, but the rest is quite possible and there will be logically more living people, and fewer deaths.
Think logically and you will come to the same. And the symptoms can be treated if it does not reach through the head, then it is necessary to treat it through the ass, so that it reaches the head.

all this would be correct if the problem conditions were described correctly ...
but they are not described correctly ...
madman killed, kills and will kill only with a hunting weapon - no !!!! and with a knife and a car and poison and service weapons of the militia and the army. But the media highlights the topic to us one-sidedly, and since it is profitable for someone ...
only hunters have weapons in the country? - the criminal element has no full of it, but this topic is taboo ... they are their own for the authorities, while they play by the rules ...
can the head be healed through the butt? you can ... but you can also put asphalt in a puddle, but it is better on a normal dry one ... so the diseases of society can be better treated not through the ass?

[savage1976]

It is not the weapon that kills, but the one who controls it. Continuing your logic, you must exclude all people and then there will be no murder from the word at all.

[Irokez]

Yes, you are just a genius in your conclusions and by the way are right.

[alystan]

To destroy unnecessary wolves and preserve forests, and at the same time to fight poachers and black loggers, it is necessary to restore the destroyed hunting and forestry lands and farms. And they destroyed them in due time through the laws adopted by Khinshtein and other deputies.

[Irokez]

I say that it is necessary to treat at all levels and the head from childhood, too, as well as the media, Russophobic social networks, tighten the Internet, comply with laws, and so on. This is a systematic work at all levels, but then there will be a howl that the power tightens the nut when it personally bites you. And so yes, everyone is keen to criticize the authorities and on this to raise the popularity of the critic. Not everything is as simple as it seems at first glance.

[hhurik]

This is in a spherical vacuum - if there is one unit less, then there will be no death from this unit. In practice, both Kerchesky and Kazan used explosive devices made on the knee from agricultural shirts and sticks. And in the first case, there are more victims of the explosion than from shot rubbish.
Take (hypothetically) a gun - they will make a more powerful bomb with nuts .... three bombs, five ... how many will take away. Here is such arithmetic - different from your maths sucked out of your finger.

[alystan]

It is necessary to treat the power / system and it is necessary to start at least with Khinshtein, as the chosen one of the people under this power.

[Irokez]

Quote: alystan

It is necessary to treat the power / system

But it is not the authorities and not the system that shoots at people, but people and, accordingly, the brains of those who shoot should be treated. Blaming the authorities and the system for everything is a dead end, an excuse and useless criticism with a reluctance to work on the ground and around oneself.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Lisa90

But looking at the Wild West, ours are beginning to imitate.

People, what has become of us, where we are going, where we are rolling. Really, we have nothing human left.

[vl903]

Quote: tihonmarine

Quote: Lisa90

But looking at the Wild West, ours are beginning to imitate.

People, what has become of us, where we are going, where we are rolling. Really, we have nothing human left.

nothing has become of us. this has always been the case when society was in decline

[Region-25.rus]

It's time

Well, yes. to smear chancre with brilliant green is when the infection has already spread throughout the body from the inside.

But looking at the Wild West, ours begin to imitate

I will reveal a terrible secret. for 30 years they have not been looking there through the "curtain". And imitate

[Tank hard]

Quote: Lisa90

It's time.

Here is an opinion on the matter-

[SHOPPING MALL]

Fools should be banned. To prohibit them from being elected and getting a job in public office, and speaking out in the media on issues in which they do not understand a damn thing.

[YOUR]

But why does our police, besides the name, not imitate the West in any way?
An example from personal life. I was driving and suddenly I was a little freaked out from what I saw. There is a male face in a balaclava with a pistol in his hand. I drove off so I wouldn't see it and I start calling the police and what do you think happened? And nothing is either not answered or busy. I called 112, it turned out that it was the firefighters who had additional responsibilities, and how much conversation you call there and this analogue of American 911 will help you. Yeah. A woman is sitting on the phone and her connection with other services is exactly the same as ours. In general, we called up with her for another hour, she called me and reported that she could not get through. Then I found out myself, figured out, there youngsters play airsoft, after 300 meters of the ruins of a military unit, that's where they rush. This apparently povypendrivatsya came out.
Let's compare what they have.
After 23.00 loud music screamed, they called the police and arrived within 5 minutes.
We have all the fight against crime in the publication of a new law that prohibits breaking.
Something like how they struggle with holes on the roads, the sign was placed carefully at an emergency section with a speed of 20 km / h and that's it.

[maxim1987]

return the death penalty, otherwise feed this u ... ka for the rest of his life. Parents of such freaks should also be amazed in social rights.

[vl903]

Quote: maximNNX

return the death penalty, otherwise feed this u ... ka for the rest of his life. Parents of such freaks should also be amazed in social rights.

parents gave this man to society, raised him for 20 years, and our society allowed our enemies to make him a tool against us. it is necessary to hang Khinshtein and the rest by the balls and not their parents.

[avg avg]

Somewhere I have already heard that the labor collective, the school are to blame ... And the family has nothing to do with it ...

[for]

Quote: avg avg

And the family is kind of here

The family has something to do with it, but the child is in society most of the time.

[vl903]

Quote: avg avg

Somewhere I have already heard that the labor collective, the school are to blame ... And the family has nothing to do with it ...

of course, there is a share of the family's fault, but not more than 40 percent. anymore, an ordinary person will not be able to influence his child.

[alystan]

The mother said: "The son is calm, homely, without any jumps. He grew up without a father, with one mother."
I would look through all his posts on social networks for more information about the so-called Internet mentors - children "go crazy" after all these Tik-Toks and other "entertainment" programs. Here, I think, there is also a small danger for the child's psyche. Why are there children, adults are stuck on the websites of various scammers and maniacs ...

[Irokez]

Quote: vl903

need Khinshtein and the rest hang by the balls

You to to the rest concern?

[vl903]

Quote: Irokez

Quote: vl903

need Khinshtein and the rest hang by the balls

You to to the rest concern?

and you probably to the deputies, since you supposedly did not understand what it was about?

[Irokez]

You didn’t write the deputies, you wrote the rest, and you didn’t specify who the others were, but they are the rest, that is, the people, the people.

[vl903]

Quote: Irokez

You didn’t write the deputies, you wrote the rest, and you didn’t specify who the others were, but they are the rest, that is, the people, the people.

I was wrong, I got carried away, the topic is very touching

[vl903]

Quote: vl903

Quote: maximNNX

return the death penalty, otherwise feed this u ... ka for the rest of his life. Parents of such freaks should also be amazed in social rights.

parents gave this man to society, raised him for 20 years, and our society allowed our enemies to make him a tool against us. it is necessary to hang Khinshtein and the rest by the balls and not their parents.

in the sense of hanging deputies

[Alexander Seklitsky]

who is about what, and lousy about the bath.

[vl903]

Quote: Alexander Seklitsky

who is about what, and lousy about the bath.

interesting, and to whom else to present for the laws by which our society lives? not to the EP, though? and not to ministers to presidents? not to the oligarchs? and probably to those who not from them but from the people receive a salary and other nishtyaks ... from them the people formally have to ask ...
or am i wrong?
what is wrong? "clean" you are ours)))

[Irokez]

Quote: maximNNX

Parents of such freaks should also be amazed in social rights.

Well, they, then, cannot be 100% guilty for their child, but they have to keep guards and feed their offspring for life while he is in prison (like alimony for his son, but already in prison).

[vl903]

here we need to decide what we want to get.
if you enjoy someone's torment this is one thing.
if you do it so that this is not repeated.
death penalty, a delay of say 5 years is enough
then you need to do so that it would not be repeated. but here the torment of the parents will not help.
I have children, I seem to be doing everything right, but I can't fence them off from society ... and it won't be my fault, but how can I guarantee that no one will brainwash them?

[Irokez]

Quote: vl903

How can I guarantee that no one zombies them? - Yes, no how !!!

That's right, nothing, but the core of life is instilled from childhood by correct upbringing, example and love for the child. And when a person embarks on an independent life path, it is very difficult and difficult to break his life core. And if from childhood a child is on his own mind and uncontrolled, then an egoist, an egocentric and a consumer grows up who only parasitizes on others and is capable of anything at an opportunity for his own beloved.

[vl903]

Quote: Irokez

Quote: vl903

How can I guarantee that no one zombies them? - Yes, no how !!!

That's right, nothing, but the core of life is instilled from childhood by correct upbringing, example and love for the child. And when a person embarks on an independent life path, it is very difficult and difficult to break his life core. And if from childhood a child is on his own mind and uncontrolled, then an egoist, an egocentric and a consumer grows up who only parasitizes on others and is capable of anything at an opportunity for his own beloved.

agree

[avia12005]

Rave. Populism. Absolute lack of understanding of what is happening.

We must take up the morale of society. We need to reduce the number of murders on TV. And then 99 percent of films are about how to commit murder and evade responsibility.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: avia12005

We need to reduce the number of murders on TV

Not only. To eradicate "malakhovshchina" primarily on the Internet.
But this means the introduction of censorship, which is opposed by many here.

[vl903]

Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich

Quote: avia12005

We need to reduce the number of murders on TV

Not only. To eradicate "malakhovshchina" primarily on the Internet.
But this means the introduction of censorship, which is opposed by many here.

censorship should not be prohibitive, as it will have a negative effect. but should be leading. like if you don't plant a tree or build a spaceship for a flight to Mars, then no one will remember about you and you are not interesting to anyone

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: vl903

censorship should not be prohibitive,

A filtering one. So that all rubbish does not leak.

[vl903]

Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich

Quote: vl903

censorship should not be prohibitive,

A filtering one. So that all rubbish does not leak.

right, and filter and give your ideals

[Hypertension]

Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich

But this means the introduction of censorship, which is opposed by many here.

There would be pinpoint censorship ... And then Roskomnadzor is like an elephant in a china shop - how many jokes are already about the fact that in trying to block Telegram, RKN blocked many left-wing Internet sites. As the saying goes: they wanted the best ... How not to throw out the child with the water ... Just give our bureaucrats the freedom to ban / censor something - then you can't stop it.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich

But this means the introduction of censorship, which is opposed by many here.

Isn't she now?
Censorship is a normal phenomenon, otherwise, in a rage of liberalism, one can end up showing porn to children.

[Vladimir1155]

I completely agree, they will just add another vile certificate, and even for money, all the bureaucratic measures have been taken. I couldn't sleep with a rat in the dining room, ... meanwhile, it is obvious that this computer guy is obsessed with shooters, the poorly respected Mr. Khinstein forbid all shooters and other soul destroying anger from a computer? a generation has grown up that stares at the iPhone and it begins to destroy people

[Akuzenka]

We must take up the morale of society. We need to reduce the number of murders on TV. And then 99 percent of films are about how to commit murder and evade responsibility.

So it sells well. "People hawala". Therefore, no one will go for it. After all, it is much easier to make an action movie than a movie that you think about and which awakens the beautiful in your soul.

[WIKI]

Quote: avia12005

We must take up the morale of society.

First, the roads had to be asphalted, and only then the mate had to be prohibited!

[Skay]

For the social system existing in Russia, "Columbine" is ineradicable. Prohibit firearms - there is a darkness of other tools to arrange a massacre. The root of evil is in the system of educating young people, the product of which is such.

[Irokez]

Quote: Skay

Firearms will be forbidden - there is a darkness of other tools to arrange a massacre. The root of evil in the youth education system

I disagree. You need to work in all directions, not just with brains and education.

[neri73-r]

Quote: avia12005

Rave. Populism. Absolute lack of understanding of what is happening.

We must take up the morale of society. We need to reduce the number of murders on TV. And then 99 percent of films are about how to commit murder and evade responsibility.

Precisely, I recently accidentally watched the series "Cop Wars", so the thought came, how long, I wonder, the main character, from the first episode to the last, killed people in the film! This is not a cop, but some kind of serial killer.

[Trapperxnumx]

Quote: avia12005

We need to reduce the number of murders on TV.

Gold words. And I will add one more thing - not to allow detailed publications of such incidents. For 95% of people, such news is terrifying, but there is a certain percentage that craves repetition and imitation. And the more blood and other things are shown, the more in people with mental deviations this causes a thirst for repetition.

[alystan]

After Khinshtein and his accomplices (other deputies), it is necessary to take on Malakhov and others like him. Half of the population (figuratively) sticks to televisions, and the other has already been accustomed to the priest ...
The people are no longer the one to aim at something serious!

[Leha667]

Interestingly, in order to meet the criterion of a hunter, how old should a citizen be? Does gender matter?
Hunter got a bear with a spear. Welcome for the barrel!
Didn't get it? So it’s not yet mature enough to become a hunter!)

[paul3390]

Does gender matter?

Well at least not sexual orientation .. And then they will put in step with the enlightened Europa that only the alternative ones will have the right to a weapon .. And what - in the Duma, only such are there, at least - morally ..

[Bolt cutter]

Didn't get it? So it’s not yet mature enough to become a hunter!)

With this selection criterion, the bears will come for the trunks

[zadorin1974]

Greetings Alexey. A little for reference. In Soviet times, a CITIZEN could join the union of hunters and fishermen from the age of 14. He wrote a statement signed by two guarantors (mentors) with at least five years of experience. The citizen is a candidate for two years, during these two years The candidate undergoes training and helps with sowing, repairs and protection in hunting societies on a voluntary basis. After the expiration of the term, a commission is created to which the candidate surrenders the hunting minimum. Then the CITIZEN was recognized as a hunter and he was allowed to purchase a swallow-bore HUNTING weapon. Now this is something with something. it took 10 minutes for me and my son to get a state uniform hunting ticket. Today, in the district society, I bought guests for the borovaya), they fell out. A boy of about twenty-five came in and asked for a permit - "to shoot a bullet !!!!!" we are all in The boy just wanted to go hunting. He graduated, got a state hunting ticket and bought himself a Cossack 410 for hunting !!!!!!!! he was asked how often and where he was going to travel, so that God forbid not to cross with him in the forest. On account of Khinstein, I’ll say this - a weather vane, a time-varying person, and just an unpleasant person. To make yourself a hype on uncooled bodies is disgusting.
In Perm, the guard died at the post with honor, he pressed the panic button three times and tried to barcode the doors. The traffic police are really heroes, on their own initiative, they went under the bullets (it's a pity, just not to destroy this one). The PLR ​​and PPS arrived after the rescuers and the ambulance.

[Mr. PeZhe]

And a little more for your reference. In REAL Soviet times, hunting weapons were sold in hardware stores, without any certificates and registrations. From the age of 14, a teenager could freely - also without certificates and registrations - buy himself a rifled small piece. And only serious rifled barrels were sold to hunters-traders on a certificate from the procurement office. And at that time, the war had just ended, the front-line soldiers were young, and many had award and trophy weapons in their hands. In a word, there were two orders of magnitude more weapons on hand than now. And with this mountain of weapons, no one went to shoot schoolchildren or students.
Because there was an ideology in the country. Social elevators worked. And the youth had prospects ahead.
Now, with the Ozero cooperative and its permanent chairman, young people have no prospects. Social elevators have been destroyed. Ahead - only work for a penny and a poor old age. Hence drug addiction. Hence AUE. Hence the shooting in schools and universities.
And the blame, of course, is the weapon. Let's ban it!

[zadorin1974]

Dobrogo Sergey. With your help I wasn’t there yet)))

[Irokez]

Quote: Mr. PeZhe

In a word, there were two orders of magnitude more weapons on hand than now. And with this mountain of weapons, no one went to shoot schoolchildren or students.

At that time, there were no such media and journalists chasing HYIP news. Much was simply not known or heard, and the news was really well filtered from such negativity, therefore there were few imitators and holders of such negativity, well, there was more positive in the minds of people than inflated negativity as it is now.
Our media must be kept in a fist and controlled as in democratic states.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: zadorin1974

PLR and PPP arrived after rescuers and an ambulance.

And whoever arrives there, they were reduced to zero.

[zadorin1974]

Hi Igor. I myself am from the Perm Territory. So here !!! The Ministry of Internal Affairs ran out of fuel in August (money on the contract on the cards). Liters per shift. Duty on Gazelle 10. Before the elections, a check came from the Main Directorate, the guys had excess fuel in their tanks (the guys refueled with their own money, no one canceled ten sticks). Even presenting receipts and viewing cameras at gas stations did not help from Before the elections, the fuel was thrown from the Makhoninsky fund (governor's). The people are fleeing. They have bullied everyone with checks, they lie to everyone about high salaries, and the sergeant staff of the teaching staff and interns with specialists receive 22-25, with no days off and no days off. they give you both the teaching staff, and the PLR, and even a plan for petty hooliganism they foist on. Young people serve until they get married or have their first child, then they just run to where they can pay 10-20 thousand a month for a mortgage and not die of hunger. guys traffic cops in Perm, who decided to apply the service, without asking permission from ABOVE. Most of this decisiveness ends with retroactive dismissal and an article.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: zadorin1974

the guys refueled with their own money - no one canceled ten sticks each

I know, Nevyansk gaytsy told that they also repair cars for their own.
According to the video, I really feel sorry for the cops on duty, they made them extreme, although any eccentric understands that they are not in business.
Where everything is heading is not clear.

[vl903]

the guy likes bullet shooting. now it is squeezed to the extreme. can be in our area in two shooting galleries and that's it. and for sensitive money. here is the second side of the problem. just clubs and shooting galleries and quarries can not be for no matter how women do not frighten. everything is prohibited
that is, there is nowhere to release and educate boys ... but at my school to teach ... to embroider .... boys ... instead of lathes and a tractor and a truck !!!

[zadorin1974]

It's easy with us. Izhevsk is nearby (the Kalashnikov Museum and the Shooting Center of Izhmash,) But it's not cheap either.

[Paranoid50]

Quote: Leha667

Hunter got a bear with a spear. Welcome for the barrel!

"However, the bear had two spears, and now the trunk will appear ..."(with)

[neri73-r]

Quote: Leha667

Didn't get it? So it’s not yet mature enough to become a hunter!)

Welcome to the cemetery if there is anything left of a citizen! You will definitely not grow up!

[Irokez]

A hunter is one who hunts in the forest, and not in a city where people are gathering. Think for yourself where and to whom to sell weapons.

[Revival]

Selling in the forest?

[alystan]

Able to fill up a brown one with one spear, it will do without any trunk.
If we are talking about hunting (for an animal, not for people) !?

[prior]

For what happened in Perm, no one will be punished, neither school psychologists, nor doctors, nor the police, nor the Russian Guard,
no city or district leaders, ANYONE.
The student lost his temper from such a life, a tragedy happened, but there are no guilty ones.
Indeed, it is not United Russia that is to blame ...
The Duma will issue another useless law. And then everything will be forgotten. Until the next such event.
This is our reality.
It is strange that the deputies still have not thought of putting cameras on the sidewalks and fine pedestrians for speeding ... They will. That would be the profit to the treasury.

[Flooding]

Quote: prior

The student lost his temper from such a life, a tragedy happened, but there are no guilty ones.

what "such" life?
how did it differ from the life of other people whose roof has not moved down?

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: prior

A student has lost his mind from such a life

From what "such" life did he lose his mind?

[prior]

Yes, one zombie box is enough to harden the whole world.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: prior

Yes, one zombie box is enough to harden the whole world.

Young people don't watch TV. We need internet censorship.

[Flooding]

Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich

Young people don't watch TV. We need internet censorship.

By the way, yes
the mention of a zomboy in relation to young people is completely inappropriate

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich

We need internet censorship.

You tell this to your curators, otherwise they scrape out all the bulk at the first request, and the filth is in the public domain, murder scenes are just as easily googled.

[Revival]

Then censorship is also needed in the surrounding reality.

[Paranoid50]

Quote: prior

the zombie box is enough to harden the whole world.

Trouble, trouble ... A host of infantiles in all its glory. And so, for the record: it turns out that we, chemists, are the most adequate part of society. For, knowing how to blow up or poison any person, we still somehow hold on.

[zadorin1974]

If you do not know, do not lie. At least the police will go through tough, already somewhat suspended.

[keeper03]

Why are you telling them how to rob people again! This is their job, so let them "think" themselves!

[prior]

Do not worry. The level of the current deputies is such that they are only able to wave, sign and grunt only what they are told.
The Duma is not the place to think.

[alystan]

In the first hours after the incident came across information from his social networks, where he says that everything in this life is "rotten". Now I can't find her, but everywhere about his plans for weapons and driving licenses, as if one is being killed on purpose by the other. If, from despair to this unjust life, I decided to take such a step, this is one thing, but if I just dreamed of killing, then this is like another motive that has nothing to do with the problems of our life and existence in general !?

[Dart2027]

Quote: alystan

If, from despair to this unfair life, I decided to take such a step, this is one thing, but if I just dreamed of killing, then this is like another motive that has nothing to do with the problems of our life and existence in general !?

What hopelessness is there? Dying of hunger? Was it terminally ill yourself or someone close to you? He had no mind, and not something else.

[alystan]

He was hardly dying of hunger, his mother was still there. What kind of youth is she now?
It's not a problem to captivate young people now, for the most part they are left to themselves ...

[Dart2027]

Quote: alystan

It's not a problem to captivate young people now, for the most part they are left to themselves ...

It is noteworthy that when articles about various youth organizations appeared on this site several times, there was such a howl in the comments that I was amazed.

[alystan]

Foreign enemies have long since openly stated that the priority of their work against the USSR / Russia is work on reformatting the consciousness of the younger generation / s. So every infection and perverted values ​​are driven into these fragile minds.

[Dart2027]

Quote: alystan

Foreign enemies have long since openly declared

Only those who preach the ideas of a new socialist revolution were indignant.

[Zaurbek]

He received the weapon legally. Until the state begins to take part in the upbringing of children (as the pioneers and the Komsomol did in the USSR), such scumbags will continue to appear. There will be no 12 gauge ... they will blow up something like in Kerch ... there are a lot of dangerous objects. And return the shooting for certain groups of criminals.

[Revival]

You will have to spend your money on this.
Who will go to this

[alystan]

Zaurbek, about the one who killed a woman with children, wrote that under the influence of passion he did everything, and this one who did not already know life is a scumbag. A woman would not let an adult bogay from a private security company live, but what prompted this young man to take such a step? Nobody knows for sure, and whether they will. And the versions and assumptions are sea and trough. Personally, it's not entirely clear to me that no one, including his mother, noticed / noticed anything strange in his behavior !? Even in the same social networks, he somehow had to "light up" himself?

[Zaurbek]

Children initially need to be given not only education from elementary grades (and now there is no upbringing function at school) but also sports, circles, etc. Then a person grows up under control and brought up systematically ...... But now this is not. Dad Mom, if a full family plows, the kids are with themselves and with social networks ... they don't even hang out in the yards anymore and don't fight. Then something grows up that is paranoid or offended.

[alystan]

Is the school fulfilling its function today? She diligently performs only those tasks that descend from above. Yes, and there are fewer real teachers left, and very soon the children will begin to teach the USE generation, but this is more about the question of knowledge. And the educational moment completely falls out, it turns out. How can teachers who grew up illiterate, without notions of real culture, who do not even understand simple respect for elders, can educate - instead of addressing by name and patronymic, they poke and name those who are good for them as grandparents ?!

[Ross xnumx]

According to State Duma deputy Alexander Khinshtein, the requirements for those who acquire weapons should be tightened.

Requirements for the selection of legislators should be tightened so that they do not put human life above the life of a dog.
Only the obligatory observance of the law by all citizens of the country, without exception, is capable of changing something, and not some rantings of a former journalist trying to conduct an orchestra ...

[paul3390]

Requirements for the selection of legislators should be tightened

The requirements are simple - that they really represent the people, and not a bunch of rich thieves .. As it was under Soviet rule. And the true representatives of the people will somehow figure out what the country needs. Uncle Vasya, a locksmith, is definitely not dumber than a journalist, a singer with a mouth or some hammer thrower .. And most likely - much wiser, because life - knows not by hearsay ..

[Flooding]

Quote: ROSS 42

so that they do not put human life above the life of a dog.

I don't understand here
it is necessary to put a dog below life?

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Flood

it is necessary to put a dog below life?

It's always like this when I'm in a hurry. Thank you, the correct remark, of course you need it like this:

Requirements for the selection of legislators should be tightened so that they do not put human life below the life of a dog.

[faiver]

and pay the average salary in the country ...

[Revival]

"Only the obligation to comply with the law by all citizens of the country."

Well that's all, the discussion can be ended, you encroach on the basics

[Rusticolus]

And for service in the army, police, etc. They do not want to change the requirements as well? You come to the military registration and enlistment office at the age of 18, you say I want to kill people. And that's all, free. No one needs you there anymore.
And it would be even better for the deputies and officials to introduce a requirement to check with a lie detector, or with the help of special means, why they go to power. That would be interesting to see.

[Roma 1977]

"In the army, the wake-up was specially made at 6 in the morning. Because the only thing you want to do at 6 in the morning is to kill someone." Or there is still a rhyme-pie:
when i get up at six fifteen
to be at work at eight
even in the crackle of the cookie
I read the text kill them all

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

And this is from their own laxity. If you know you have to get up at six in the morning, why the hell do the bullshit until two in the morning?

[vl903]

at 18 years old? What mentally normal person will go to bed at 21? )))

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: vl903

at 18 years old? what mentally normal person will go to bed at 21?

It is the mentally normal person who will lie down.
And the infantile ignoramus will whine that he is, you see, an owl, therefore, personally for him, you need to make a working day from noon at least.
Well, and come up with such stupid excuses.

[vl903]

Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich

Quote: vl903

at 18 years old? what mentally normal person will go to bed at 21?

It is the mentally normal person who will lie down.
And the infantile ignoramus will whine that he is, you see, an owl, therefore, personally for him, you need to make a working day from noon at least.
Well, and come up with such stupid excuses.

normal will go to bed only if tomorrow at 4 am to the airfield to jump with a parachute or go mountaineering to the mountains

[alstr]

Well, at 21.00 it is impossible - viewing the news. Lights out at 22.00.
And in the army, if a soldier does not sleep at 22.00, it means he is badly chased.

[paul3390]

Who would doubt that the first reaction of this gang is to immediately tighten the screws and ban everything. Otherwise - they do not want to act and do not know how. For the intellectual level is below the plinth. Either there will be more .. Let us recall more than once the "crushing victory of the United Russia" ...

[Flank]

the first reaction of this gang is to immediately tighten the nuts and ban everything

In fact, you would have done the same in their place. This is how people are arranged - they demand primitive actions from the authorities and try not to forbid it - in a moment the howl "Putin is destroying Russia" will rise.

[wt100]

But why not put in every educational institution a growing Guardsman with a submachine gun (not all of them waving clubs with clubs), in an armored booth, so that he is not immediately overwhelmed, and he was able to react quickly. I would not be stingy on this, for the sake of the life and health of my children. And such a lousy fellow, I would have thought 100 times that he could quickly run into a bullet himself.

[Roma 1977]

Not an option. Such actions are arranged precisely to run into a bullet, but to catch a hype. It is necessary to neutralize them before committing illegal actions.

[Lech from Android.]

How?
How to establish a system of rapid response to the appearance of a person with weapons and explosives at an educational institution?
Maybe programmers will come up with an observation and scanning program like the one that tracks the faces and numbers of cars ... that reacts to any object resembling a rifle, pistol, knife and automatically triggers an alarm in the police ... it would be nice to give such a task to the best minds in software provision of Russia.

[Alex bergman]

There are such systems. They are already testing at airports. Only it is expensive. The common people do not deserve that kind of security.

[wt100]

So let him glorify the bullet ON THE ENTRANCE, and not when 10-20 people have already interrupted

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: wt100

Isn't it possible to put in every educational institution a growing Guardsman with a submachine gun?

I appreciated ...
I just wonder how I went to school unaccompanied, splashed 2 km to the library and took a trolleybus to the sports section ... Anything happened, only in our schools they didn't shoot and the teachers weren't beaten ...

[Avior]

Is it possible to put in every educational institution a growing Guardian

what if he comes to the hospital? to the theatre? to a kindergarten? to the cinema? yes you never know places where an abnormal or a criminal with a weapon can break in. You can't put a guard everywhere.
Fundamentally, the problem cannot be solved ...

[wt100]

Firstly: lately, who and where is committing these massacres - these are the students of those educational institutions. They are driven by revenge on their offenders. They hatch plans of reprisal for a long time, consciously, not spontaneously, some write about it, maybe not in plain text, in social networks. So that schools, institutes and so on. In 1 turn, put the one who is on an equal footing (with weapons), will be able to fight back. Everyone will know about this, and the realization that revenge can end without starting just on the threshold of the university, with a bullet in the forehead, will surely have a sobering effect. With this, I propose to warn the very idea of ​​committing reprisals.
Secondly: we are talking about the under-education of young people. We look more broadly, we have gone along the Western path of priorities for goals for life, that is, materialism, fussing, the primary provision of the personal self. And when such a person is taken away, insulted, humiliated, her dissonance occurs, and this is how it can result in some. So that this will continue, and not by any persuasion to reach everyone in the soul.

[Alex bergman]

All socially significant objects must be guarded by the National Guards with weapons.

[vl903]

Quote: wt100

But why not put in every educational institution a growing Guardsman with a submachine gun (not all of them waving clubs with clubs), in an armored booth, so that he is not immediately overwhelmed, and he was able to react quickly. I would not be stingy on this, for the sake of the life and health of my children. And such a lousy fellow, I would have thought 100 times that he could quickly run into a bullet himself.

yes it will just pass elsewhere. after all, he is preparing for this and thinks over everything.
we must not fight the consequences, but the reasons

[Mr. PeZhe]

No! We must reject such half-measures with all the proletarian ruthlessness!
All schools should be surrounded by barbed wire, the perimeter should be guarded by submachine gunners on towers and patrols with dogs. Schoolchildren should be dressed in striped robes, divided into groups and locked up in cells during classes.
And there will come general prosperity and goodness in the air.

[Alexey RA]

And these are half measures. It is necessary to solve the problem radically - according to Zhvanetsky.

Place turnstiles at the end of each street. Of course, you can walk like that, and to your health, but this is recklessness - wherever I want, I go there. Place turnstiles at the end of each street. Just because. Let them let them through for now. Don't be scared. They only let know with a bang. And the attendants in bandages. Let them stand and let them pass. Their very presence, the very look ... You walk at them - your face burns, after them - your back burns. And they don't ask anything ... yet. This is the whole effect. And it already disciplines. You can block it at any time. Special teams have access to any house and so on.

Along the contour of the squares - along the checkpoint. A man walks along the fence, hands - on the fence. Well, let's say, three or four rounds of the fence - and into the entrance, where no one detains him, although the attendants, of course, are standing. A special paint on the fence, well, there, prints and so on. Yes, my God, no one will take off the fence - there is nothing to be afraid of. But in the event of an emergency ... prints on the fence, and where are you going? In the meantime, let them pass without documents. Although you must have it with you, and this is mandatory in case of checking, reconciliation, emergency. That is, when you go to the person on duty, you already want to present something. If you pass without presentation, you will only suffer. Over time, no one will be ashamed of checks. Shame will go untested. Moreover, to appear unexpectedly and anywhere, like now. Or shout: "My home is my fortress" - from inner licentiousness.

But there is no need to put on duty in the corridors. Bye. To begin, of course, by leaving the house. Short conversation: “Where, when, why a purse? Well, if there is no one at home, then where? " Etc. Well, right there, right away, at the door, so as not to bother you later. And the key is on the board. Yes, the key is on the board. That is, so that a person, a citizen, does not feel completely abandoned to their will. Explain what is more pleasant to walk or lie in the bathroom when you know that you are not alone. Whatever you do, wherever you are, well, that is, literally - the bare steppe, and you are not alone, and with any call you have nothing to fear - everyone rises. At any shout: "Hey people!" - a public figure jumps out from under the ground: "Toilet is around the corner" - and so on. Well, this is an emergency, but all the same, four, five of us need to walk.

[Flank]

No need for armed guards in schools. It is very expensive and you are the first to be stingy and, secondly, there are more chances that schoolchildren themselves will use their weapons. Well, one cannot discount the fact that the guards themselves can also shoot schoolchildren. They don't have it written on their foreheads whether he wants to be on the first channel in the news or not.

[Roma 1977]

On the one hand, the liberalization of the arms market, this is a large profit for the manufacturers of the rifle and related industries. On the other hand, the more weapons on hand, the greater the percentage of inadequate possession of these weapons. And it happens that the tower breaks down even from decent people, no one is immune from mental breakdowns. Where is the golden mean? I myself love guns, but at the same time I strongly reject the killing of animals for fun. That is, I am not a hunter, which means I am potentially dangerous to others, and I cannot sell weapons?

[Akuzenka]

That is, I am not a hunter, which means I am potentially dangerous to others, and I cannot sell weapons?

You are the most dangerous person! As I! Because in case of a sudden "nix", you will fight off bandits and other trash not with improvised means or will die obediently, but will resist. And very effective. How much extra work for the police! You will have to answer for the death of the bandit, spoil the statistics, write a lot of pieces of paper, transfer you to prison, feed you. And they will not bear responsibility for your death, as well as expenses.

[Zaurbek]

The question is different ... what is in the head of a person who wanted to shoot at school ... before you had time to get some kind of information .... and shot students at the Institute? And this is not an isolated incident, but a recurring incident once a year. And whether he bought a gun legally or not, or blew up an IED - this is just a weapon in his hands. It could be with powerful pneumatics, a crossbow with poisoned arrows, etc. It's all available.

[Akuzenka]

The question is precisely in the instrument. There are no dangerous or non-dangerous weapons, there are dangerous people. And there are non-dangerous people who want to effectively defend themselves against dangerous people. So they need the right tool for this.

[Zaurbek]

Another question is why the situation is created, that there are such dangers.

[Akuzenka]

So this is life. And people are different. It has always been that way. And now, with the fall of morals and morals, the devaluation of the role of the teacher and the glorification of the cult of money, all the negative tendencies have intensified. After all, being human is not easy. A monkey - and you don't have to try. Capitalism is!

[Zaurbek]

Also true ..... capitalism.

[Lech from Android.]

In Russia, there are about 15000 legal owners of weapons between the ages of 18 and 21, only 0,4 percent of the total number of owners.
They should be under special control, who and how will carry out this big question.
God alone knows what is going on in their heads with negative emotions.
One thing is clear that our state does not control the brains of young people from negative things pouring out of the media and, as a consequence, the appearance of thugs in society for whom murder becomes the solution to all problems.
Khinshtein wants to solve the problem by tightening the screws, without touching the fundamental reasons for the executions ... somehow it does not fit with the state approach ... a momentary solution is not a sign of intelligence.

[Nafanya from the sofa]

The State Duma proposed to revise the arms legislation against the background of the events that took place in Perm.

Did the former suggest or have not yet joined? The deputy Poklonskaya won the ambassador to the resort country, to the "distant kingdom, the thirtieth state". And Khinshtein did it himself?

[ultra]

Quote: Nafanya from the couch

And Khinshtein did it himself?

He went through the single-mandate constituency.

[ZeeD]

It's funny! Many hunters become hunters when they go hunting with their father ... And so a young citizen, having received a hunting ticket, goes to the licensing commission and is denied on the grounds that he is 18 years old and he is a city dweller, so a priori he doesn't need a gun?
Cho for nonsense ?!

[Sands Careers General]

These prohibitions will get you nowhere. No matter how forbidden, a young Dodik can steal a shotgun from the safe of his father and start a massacre.
Here the head must be treated. To educate the youth.

[rocket757]

Quote: General of the Sand Quarries

Here the head must be treated. To educate the youth.

It all starts with the HEAD !!! it is an axiom.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

To begin with, you need data on how everything happened, and on this basis, already make an analysis of the necessary measures.
We need information about how much time has passed since the appearance and identification of the offender, until the first call to the police. Was there a panic button, and if there was, did the guard manage to press it.
Maybe it makes sense to train students and students to turn on fire alarms, because some victims did not even know about the danger that threatened them. In this regard, again I want to return to the shortcomings of school education, where they teach integrals, but do not teach how to use the telephone, the features of household electricity and the use of fire alarms.
In the end, if there is a glass-break sound sensor, then it makes sense to train this sensor to recognize gun shots as well, by connecting it to a sound alert. And face recognition systems using video cameras must be trained to recognize a person with a gun on the street.

[rocket757]

Weapon legislation in Russia must change - more control is needed over what, in fact, an individual citizen acquires a barrel for

This is only a PART OF THE PROBLEM, which, by the way, is the easiest to solve ...
On that "field" of potholes, there are a lot of holes and it WILL NOT work to level them out simply!
As always, the problem is complex, the solution should be no less extensive, versatile ...

[Basarev]

According to State Duma deputy Alexander Khinshtein, the requirements for those who acquire weapons should be tightened.

For what it was all started.

[wandlitz]

The State Duma proposed to change the weapon legislation
IMHO - Legislation is powerless against psychos

[Andobor]

Yes, three cases Kerch, Kazan, Perm according to the same scheme - the kid bought it legally, went to shoot, something needs to be changed.

[Nexcom]

do not change anything until the system itself is changed. it is a systemic problem. the system is privately copied from the USA. that's why we started having the same problems as the Americans.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

There is nothing in common with the system of selling weapons in the United States, there is free acquisition of weapons, and we have an extremely difficult to overcome, completely prohibitive system, through which young mentally unbalanced personalities for some reason break through, in the most inexplicable way.

[Nexcom]

through which for some reason young mentally unbalanced personalities break through, in the most inexplicable way.

Exactly !! You are absolutely right. This indicates that the system is not working. Barriers do not work, from the word at all.

At the same time, I did not write that the system was completely copied from the USA. I wrote that in part.

[Cananecat]

Maybe I'll say nonsense. But the right to acquire weapons, a citizen should receive after serving in the army. At least a year. There he will hold the machine gun and laugh at the fighting. The student card automatically terminates the license for the weapon.
And the fishermen in individual areas should be left alone. They already know how to handle weapons from 12 years old.
To deprive Khinshtein of his deputy mandate and send the OLRR and the owners of weapons from 18 to 25 years old on foot, you see, you’ll have enough brains on the way ...

[Lech from Android.]

In the army, Shamsutdinov shot his colleagues in the mood ... so the army also does not guarantee anything against further shootings.

[Nexcom]

a friend of the eldest daughter had recently served - he told me that only MMG was in the company, they only gave combat machines at the shooting range. apparently to "shooters" not to provoke .... vigil, so to speak. But, IMHO, this is still too much. This is an army, nevertheless, and not a scout camp to keep MMG in companies there.

[Cympak]

In our army, they are afraid to give weapons to soldiers, unlike the army of Israel or Switzerland

[faiver]

Is it in the mood? And not in response to the offenders?

[Revival]

And forbid those who did not serve?
Doctors, professors too?
They often did not serve, and they go to institutes

[Nexcom]

I’m a candidate of sciences, and I served and go to various institutes. moreover, recently it was tested from 9x19 in a special dash. I fired on "good" - the inspecting instructor even asked where I served and when was the last time I fired. What, do not let me buy a stubby barrel? Although the combat will not be sold, but there is no sense from the rubber-spit - almost all of which I had a chance to hold in my hands are crooked and with defects. Their owners are then looking for gunsmiths to bring to mind. Yes, and no stopping ability - if the attacker is in a sheepskin coat in winter, then he will not get anything from this rubber spit. And the crap from this rubber spit as from a real combat (storage, it is impossible to carry it with a cartridge in the chamber, the checks are constant, God forbid that you change in the mechanisms and the barrel - an article right away). So just smack on cans, well, or scare a youngster. On a serious note, if that does not fight back. Alas.

[Revival]

Quite right, responsibility is like a military one, almost like a toy.
I somehow took a license for the Wasp, but I didn't buy it, I handed it back

[Paranoid50]

What an abundance of reflections.

[neri73-r]

Khinshtein is a simple populist, opportunist. Again, the weapon is his fault. The reasons are completely different, in the upbringing of young people. Our school (read the state) completely disowned this. So it turns out that everyone is engaged in raising our children, except for ourselves, freedom is her mother .......

[Nexcom]

The problem of massacres (not terrorist attacks) came to us, as part of the Western world, from TV and the network. In the Soviet period, it was not.

Let me ask you, but in the army, the "arrows" were not shot in the army in Soviet times?
Did you run away with weapons? And then the police cordons with VVshniki did not block all the roads? Remember if it doesn't bother you. I’m not trying to catch you, I’ve just forgotten you. and I remember such a case.
And when he served as a signalman, there was a case, only there was not a firearm used but a bayonet-knife, the Caucasian began to rush at his colleagues, cut and chop them (even though this bayonet-knife couldn't even cut sausages ...). he simply could not get to the rifle pack, and he could not stand the guard.

so something like this ..... It's about the fact that in Soviet times this was not

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Nexcom

Did you run away with weapons? And then the police cordons with VVshniki did not block all the roads? Remember if it doesn't bother you. I’m not trying to catch you, I’ve just forgotten you. and I remember such a case.

Uh-huh ... one seizure in 1981 by two deserters of 25 hostages - schoolchildren of the 10th grade - is worth it.
Well, the crown was the case of 1986 - the hijacking of a plane with hostages, committed by two soldiers of the Internal Troops of the second year of service, who underwent special training just to act in the event of such a hijack.

[Nexcom]

And what was I talking about above? Even the film was like that, "Guard" is called. The soldier "did not fit into the collective" of the guard - they began to get him, so he multiplied everyone by zero from frustration and rejection and fled with a weapon. The ending was almost immediately obvious - they killed him.

The problem existed, if even in the cinema they began to beat it at that time.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Nexcom

And what was I talking about above? Even the film was like that, "Guard" is called. The soldier "did not fit into the collective" of the guard, they got him, he multiplied everyone to zero from frustration and rejection and fled with a weapon. The ending was almost immediately obvious - they killed him.

Moreover, Rogozhkin said that the script for "Guard" was written long before the well-known "Sakalauskas case" - based on the case of 1973, of which he was a witness.

[Nexcom]

"When the director of the film himself was doing military service and took part in the capture of a soldier who committed a similar act; in addition, he called a similar phenomenon an ordinary and quite regular for the Soviet Army."

Quote from Wikipedia.

Y-yes, all this is sad.

[Kaw]

Quote: Tank jacket

In the Soviet period, it was not.

In the Soviet period there was no publicity, so there were no problems.

[Nexcom]

Exactly. It was just that in Soviet times they did not sound widely as they do now, but quietly added all these cases in the official documentation. The people learned about them by indirect signs. What - I wrote above.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Nexcom

Exactly. It was just that in Soviet times they did not sound widely as they do now, but quietly added all these cases in the official documentation.

Or, on the contrary, they were widely voiced, correctly placing accents. An-24 hijacking to Turkey in 1970 is an example of this: freedom fighters bandits and murderers Brazinskas and the heroically deceased flight attendant Nadezhda Kurchenko.

[Nexcom]

Well, if my memory serves me right, there was no mass execution, there was no "shooter" ...

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Nexcom

Well, if my memory serves me right, there was no mass execution, there was no "shooter" ...

True, there was no execution. There was another case, which also did not fit well into the official Soviet reality: the hijacking of an aircraft by armed Soviet citizens into a NATO country. After all, they could also quietly release them on the brakes, like shootings or hostage-taking - fortunately, the information metering system in the USSR allowed this.

[Nexcom]

No, the side that had gone over the hill with the captured hostages was no longer possible to hide. That is why there was full voiceover in the Soviet press. There was no way to dig it in ... I have little faith in the fact that if there was an opportunity to hide this case, then it would not have been used. They also kind of took advantage of it. It's just that the situation is already out of control.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Nexcom

No, the board that had gone over the hill with the captured hostages could no longer be hidden. That is why there was full scoring in the Soviet press.

In the 70s, there were 6 successful hijackings of aircraft over the hill - up to the Tu-134. Of these, EMNIP, only the first one, An-24 to Turkey, was widely covered. The rest quietly let go of the brakes.

[Nexcom]

But the people all the same were aware of these cases. My late grandmother worked in the Soviet Aeroflot, they were always in the know. I remember how she told me about the thefts. And I remember when the crews began to arm them with PMs. I flew as a passenger a lot as a child. Il-18, Tu-134, Tu-154 of the first versions.

PS About the Ovechkin family, whose hijacking was unsuccessful, they did not hide anything - they also widely covered everything in the press. The coverage was indicative. Apparently they wanted to show that they did not allow such villains to be hijacked.

[Wedmak]

If they allowed the short-barreled, with a license and only served in the agencies / army / special services, with passing the appropriate examinations for possession, would this inadequate go far? He would not have bought the barrel legally, but having received an illegal, he would hardly have reached the university. And even entering the university, he could run into a couple of people with trunks, after which he would have no options. And the number of victims would be several times less, if there were any.
Here they were shot at a university, before that in a school, there they attacked a department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs ... and all this is done by loners who have moved down the roof. And the deputies also need to be asked, what are they doing for their grandmother in the Duma? It is necessary to give people the opportunity to defend themselves, and not to tighten the already inadequate laws. Which are easy and simple to get around.

[Owl]

The pioneers are not interested in the safety of the population of Russia, they are interested in the filling of their pockets. If something starts, then these creatures, under the cover of a "personal" will come to "Ball" or "Granddaughter" and fly to live in "their foreign property", to the children and grandchildren who live and study there.

[Revival]

"If only short-barrels were allowed, with a license and only those who served in the agencies / army / special services."

Yes, let us introduce one more criterion of the worthy and unworthy.
A cop shot in the store.
Recently, a former employee also fired at people from the balcony.
The girl was also shot by an employee.
This is only from the fact that I immediately remembered the worthy ...

[Wedmak]

Let's introduce one more criterion of the worthy and unworthy.

What does the worthy and the unworthy have to do with it? Well, okay, let's also introduce the mandatory weapons courses. With a tough exam.
In any case, in order to permit the carrying of weapons, it is necessary to instill literacy in its relation to the population.
Note, I am not for fluency in a firearm, I am for its tight control and barrel licenses. Then any criminal will know that he has a non-illusory chance of getting a bullet during robbery / violence / robbery. Crime will go down. And for such 18-year-old shooters, the chances of fulfilling their plans to kill people with impunity are greatly reduced.

[Avior]

... Well, okay, let's also introduce the mandatory weapons courses. With a tough exam.

And would they change? In all cases of the latter, weapons were bought legally and without cronyism, all commissions passed

[Wedmak]

You did not understand. The shooter knew for sure that he would have time to carry out his idea and carried it out. But if there was an armed man on the way to the university? Or several? The outcome could have been different.

[Avior]

Even Americans are prohibited from entering such institutions with weapons.
In the meantime, he did not start shooting, how can you determine whether they have peaceful intentions or not?

[Revival]

"Well, okay, let's also introduce compulsory weapons courses. With a tough exam."

Completely sensible and necessary thing.

The only problem, as before, will be that, like other help, this one can also be "obtained"

[Wedmak]

Alas, the problem of bribes can be solved very poorly.

[Kaw]

It is necessary to allow free possession of short-barreled weapons. If people had pistols, this shooter would have been banged much earlier than he could have shot so many. In countries where free possession of weapons is allowed, people die from criminal causes much less often than in such as Russia. But the authorities will, of course, once again do the opposite, and this, in my opinion, is not at all a concern for our safety, it is a desire to make their stay in power more calm.
Unwittingly, conspiracy theories creep into my head that someone deliberately "pumped up" this guy with foolishness so that he went to shoot people, so that later on the basis of this they could push through the necessary law. IMHO

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

You are confusing the problem of possession with the problem of carrying a weapon. Should armed students be admitted to classes, and should anyone be admitted to educational institutions with weapons at all?

[Nexcom]

Are you sure that there would not have been a shootout (it’s probably even more correct to call it random firing) and accidentally would not have touched others additionally? There could simply have been many more victims.

IMHO, having a weapon does not yet mean being able to master it as a professional. a priori, a civilian will not shoot like a pro spetsnaz. Therefore, it is correct to drown here that the weapon must be possessed by the one who knows how to use it and will be able to use it.

PS In the US, on the contrary, everywhere at the entrances to educational institutions there are "frames" and the guard takes everything away. Even in schools, they hound them so that they don't carry weapons.

[Revival]

"Are you sure that a firefight would not have ensued (it is probably even more correct to call it indiscriminate firing) and would not accidentally have touched others additionally? There simply could have been much more victims."

That is, you are sure and will be able to prove that indiscriminate firing would have started and accidentally touched others additionally? Would there be many more victims?

How is your assumption more likely than the opposite?

[Nexcom]

There is a likelihood of indiscriminate firing and there is no escape from it - a stressful situation, fear for one's life, unprofessional possession of a weapon by a citizen. all this can unfortunately lead to additional casualties.

[Revival]

The probability of something is always there, just like the probability of the opposite.

[Pavel73]

Before my eyes is an example of the most seated country in the world - the United States. There are five times more prisoners than in Russia. With only twice the population. And shooting with victims happens there regularly. Do not take it from them.

[Nexcom]

Even in my thoughts it was not about adopting. Ches word.

[Bolt cutter]

There are five times more prisoners than in Russia. With only twice the population.

The fact is that in the United States, anyone who would get off with a "convention" in Russia goes to (or under) bunks. The law is there for everyone.

[Nexcom]

The law is there for everyone

Well why ... If you make a deal with the investigation, make a very large deposit, then you can almost cut it. Although in most cases the "shooter" does not live up to the trial there - he will be eliminated as soon as possible by either the police (who are now spread rot there for the fact that they shoot too much without justification) or SWAT
Depends on the situation and the consequences.

[Bolt cutter]

If you make a deal with the investigation

All the same, it will shine for several years. Floyd gave up his own and left as soon as possible. True, he left his staff, otherwise the browsers would have changed his sexual orientation.
In the United States, a criminal is not a "dobazaritsa through the diaspora" and will not go to his native Appalachian mountains, where US laws do not work (* because there is a law too) - unlike the Caucasus. And the judge will not be able to adjust the bribe.

[Nexcom]

Yes, I agree with you.

About the Appalachian Mountains. No, the criminal will simply dump him in another state where he may not be extradited to the state where he committed the crime (there may not be such an agreement between the states).
Although they have a different law on this score - being a criminal crossing the state line is a federal crime. Well, God bless them, with the Americans. they have their own smut, and we have ours. why look at them? you need to deal with your smut as that, it will be more productive.

[Bolt cutter]

I still may not issue to the state where I committed

Then he will sit in that state. Do not walk freely in the mountains and auls.

why look at them?

If you cite statistics for comparison, then you need to dive a little deeper.

[Nexcom]

You are right, I agree with you.

[KSVK]

Quote: Andobor

you need to change something.

I would start with the president, deputies and government.

[vl903]

very much like a planned campaign to deprive the people of arms. instead of working with youth, again prohibitive measures

[Nexcom]

again prohibitive measures

it's easier for the system. no work has to be done. there is also a great risk that it will not work. and banning it is quick and easy.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Youth work you say? A modern school is a huge press on students and parents. Starting with the weight of a school bag and the need to carry removable shoes, to English textbooks, where even the tasks themselves are not in Russian. Of course, even if schools are equipped with individual boxes for changing shoes, as in the United States, the problem will not go away, but the pressure on students must be reduced unequivocally, this should reduce the overall level of psychosis and the need for inadequate solutions.

[Nexcom]

Duc kids themselves that do with their peers without any weapons?
Near Yekaterinburg, such kids killed a peer a year ago because it seemed to them (!!!) that he was a drug addict and was disrespectful to them (!!!).
Three of them beat him to death, three of them jumped on his head. Are they adequate? No.
But they will get a clean certificate because formally they do not have a mental illness. Society has been sick for a long time if such children grow up in society.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

I still remember the street crime of the 80s of the last century. You know, it's much quieter on the streets now. So there is no need to rush to conclusions about the ill health of society. In some ways, the social structure and processes have changed for the better, but in others the problems are only growing, as with the weight of a school bag.

[Nexcom]

maybe you are right. But I remember the 90s, when in Yekaterinburg the Uralmashevskys with the central ones staged shooting on the street almost every day. and not only. though, you're right. now it is much calmer. if you do not take into account the frightening tendency of the emergence of "shooters" - lonely.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

However, now life has become much more nervous in small things, such as penalizing cameras, incorrectly configured traffic lights, an unthinkable amount of homework at school, an extremely complex circulation of documents, constant changes in all sorts of rules and regulations.
Some seemingly simple and low-cost problems have not been resolved for decades, such as the same problem with individual boxes for changing shoes in schools, or the problem with an ever-clogged parking pocket near a school, where for some reason residents of nearby houses and vegetable vendors abandon their cars.

[Nexcom]

... and because of such little things, people do not hesitate to use officially purchased weapons. The further, the more. Example: a public parking space was not shared, a young guy took out a traumatic rubber spit and shot an elderly driver. thank God - not to death. voila.
the case actually took place in Yekaterinburg.

about the fact that they wrote in the newspapers that more and more often they shoot during disassembly from "defensive" weapons, using them for an attack, it is a fact. and so then - everything is "calm" ....
it's not the bandits who shoot ... law-abiding citizens ...

[CYM]

Change is needed

No question. 1. To settle the deputies of the State Duma, for a term of office, in ordinary houses (say, in Kuzminki). 2. To deprive deputies of the State Duma of protection and official transport. 3. To deprive the deputies of the State Duma of the "award" and other weapons by issuing in return, for self-defense from the "electorate", rubber arrows.

[faiver]

Settled deputies of the State Duma, for a term of office, in ordinary houses

- no, no, it is better to move the State Duma, for example, to Tiksi, there is a lot of abandoned housing stock, official transport is not needed - there is nowhere to go, pay the average salary in the country, well, and food rations probably, otherwise they will not live there on average ...

[Pavel73]

The age bar must be raised - once. Up to 21 years old. Those who did not serve in the army are even higher, up to 27 years old - two. And to put the complexity of obtaining a license to acquire weapons in direct dependence on muzzle energy - three. And it turns out idiocy! A 12-gauge shotgun, from which it is possible to shoot dozens of people - please, and a small thing for sports in the shooting range - wait five years.

[t-12]

On the contrary - to teach children weapons (CWP) from 8-9 grades. Explain that this is not a toy or a substitute for a fight. Military service is strictly compulsory (unless a person is completely disabled and not in a medical sense). Plus compulsory military training at least once every six months for a week.

[Nikolaevich I]

There is an expression: "Step on a rake" ... "The second time they step on the same rake ..."! But, as the commentator on YouTube interestingly noted, in Russia they don't just walk around the rake, but run around! I've seen video footage of a criminal walking calmly across campus ... fully equipped and armed! How it reminded the video from the previous similar event! Students noticed him ... they even started filming with their mobile phones ... But what did they do in the first minutes? And have they undertaken? Did they know what to do? Was there security at the entrance? Did those students call the post with their cell phone? Why didn't they close the front door in front of the criminal's nose? How did the offender end up on campus already equipped and armed? The criminal had 1500 rounds of ammunition ... which of the employees of the weapons store paid attention to this fact? How did an 18-year-old jerk who did not serve in the army have a weapon? I also saw video footage of him visiting a gun store ... on a dude with thin legs in black, as if shouting: I'm a terrorist! - none of the store employees pays attention! Although this is very similar to the previous incident, when a 20-year-old "youth" who did not serve in the army, who, in my opinion, is not a member of the hunter society, calmly acquires hundreds (or thousands?) Of cartridges, not to mention the acquisition of weapons! Now in the Duma they are shouting about the introduction of protection in universities ... but they also shouted about this the last time! So what?

[t-12]

on the introduction of protection in universities

Will there be a platoon of guardsmen with machine guns in every university, technical school and school? Will there be posts, barriers, shelters, search of the incoming?

[Redfox3k]

A person who does not fit into society, who does not have his own social circle, or who has fallen into a circle where he is spread rot is a potential "shooter from Kazan, Perm." Moreover, the constant promotion of luxury and carefree life on TV and IT will complete the business. The rest is a matter of technology. And it doesn't have to be a firearm.

[Nexcom]

BOOOT! You have correctly identified one of the reasons for the emergence of potential "shooters". Indeed, it is not a matter of weapons. There will be no weapons at hand, there will be something else.

[Tuzik]

maybe the problem is not in weapons, but in education? maybe it is worth going through television, the Internet. Watch youth TV shows, what can grow good on them?

[ermak124.0]

Well, now all the parliamentary crap will shout.

[Prisoner]

Until you change your brains, everything is useless. A scumbag can even stick with Molotov cocktails or with a kitchen knife.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

change the self-defense law

[Owl]

What else can the "mouthpiece" of the Russian Guard offer? That's right, "grab and not let go."

[abu_]

(...) It is necessary to conceptually define an approach to understanding why a citizen needs a weapon in general. It is clear when a hunter gets a rifle (...) when an 18-year-old city dweller buys a smoothbore gun? There are already questions

And when this same 18-year-old guy is given a weapon in his hands and sent somewhere - to kill, and to die, then the respected deputy Khinstein does not have any questions?

[Krasnoyarsk]

Khinshtein recalled that there are other means for self-defense, including non-lethal ones, and there is no need to buy hunting weapons for this. In addition, the deputy again asked to pay attention to the protection of educational institutions. [quote] [/ quote]
But Khinshtein did not enter the thought - why in the USSR there was no need to protect schools, kindergartens, hospitals, etc.? And no one and nowhere shot people. Yes, there have been individual killings with gunshot, but these have been cases.

[ILIA]

Gun ownership is a civil right. Who cares why I need it.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Are there such statements (and, moreover, actions) after murders committed, for example, by representatives of law enforcement agencies or all kinds of private security companies? When the notorious Major Yevsyukov was shooting people like targets in a shooting range, not a single deputy, as far as I remember, spoke in a similar vein, about the need to tighten the rules for admitting law enforcement officers to arms. A recent shooter at the FSB or one who is shooting back from a mansion in the Moscow region are people associated with private security companies. Our police are still far from cops from the same USA, who put hundreds of people a year. We still have tens. But we have a feeling that we want to catch up with the "decaying west" in this respect and therefore we regularly simplify the rules of handling weapons for the security officials. And the people, at the same time, are tightening up. How can this duplicity be explained?

In my opinion, the style of implementation of our domestic policy in recent years has shown a number of dangerous negative trends. More and more often, characteristic features of "our" response to certain challenges are:

a) Lack of proper analysis of the situation. A superficial, ill-considered approach, when a lot is done in a hurry and more for show than to achieve a real result. It seems that there are no normal analytical bodies in the country capable of comprehensively investigating this or that problem at the proper level and giving decision-makers a qualitative picture of the situation. Or decision-makers do not have the time / desire / ability to listen to these reports and, more importantly, to hear, properly delving into them. Although, most likely, both are true in certain proportions.

b) The presence of an excessively strong influence on the decisions made by someone's extraneous interests that run counter to the interests of the people. So, often, initially declared good initiatives are perverted as they are implemented and "at the exit" turn out to be something exactly the opposite. The result, in the end, works only for the benefit of narrow groups of people and to the detriment of the broad masses. And here, I must admit, one can already feel the competent, well-thought-out work of those who are pushing the interests of these groups of people.

c) The growing disdainful attitude of the "elite" towards the population of the country. Recently, we regularly hear contemptuous statements about the people from the lips of various government officials. Yes, these statements are made mainly by classic "blondes" of both sexes, but this does not mean that the smarter "people's choices" do not think so, the latter simply have enough intelligence not to advertise it publicly. In such conditions, the authorities may begin to think that the people can once again be deceived, that they will not tolerate something else. And more, and more. This is a very dangerous trend.

So in this situation, the next deputy is in a hurry to satisfy his own aspirations rather than the people's needs. It is quite logical that the "elite" do not really like the fact that the people have weapons. And working in this direction at every opportunity - they see it as a cunning and useful move. Instead of taking care of a thorough, comprehensive study of the situation (from a medical / social and other point of view), instead of coming to grips with the issues of protecting our children (what a cost to you!), Instead of finally regulating the behavior of the media in situations like this (and we see from time to time that many of these arrows were inspired precisely by media reports about previous mass shootings), instead of, in a word, any real attempts to change the situation - our deputy, without further ado, simply sees in what happened another opportunity to bend the line power over weapons from the people. And that's all.

[RPG_]

This raises the question, how can an 18 year old law-abiding citizen become a hunter?

[Freedim]

Who interferes with keeping the trunks of the newly-made owners of firearms in special storage in a megalopolis? quite digestible. Worked out five to ten years of experience - earned an indulgence .. you can buy a wardrobe and keep it at home. And if you organize a shooting gallery together with the special security, it will generally be chocolate.

[vitvit123]

And from the spetshran to take and go to shoot people will not work or what? I came, wrote: I was going to Brykina Gora, shoot hares, took the lighthouse and went to school, college, but just to the street and ...

[CYM]

Quote: FreeDIM

And if you organize a shooting gallery together with the special security, it will generally be chocolate.

So everyone is leading the Khinshteins to this, to organize a ubiquitous "chocolate" for the "keepers" close to them. By the way, this does not save from incidents with weapons, but who cares.
https://ngs.ru/text/incidents/2021/07/28/70049210/ https://lenta.ru/articles/2017/02/22/tir/ https://www.5-tv.ru/news/145695/

[Yaroslavl]

We in the State Duma need changes, first of all, and they will not be similar again

[kudma]

Maybe connect the National Guard and the army to the protection of educational institutions, as a detachment. And then thousands of healthy goofs do not fucking contract soldiers all day, let the children be protected.

[BABAY22]

So the army doesn’t do it all day long according to your opinion?

[kudma]

Yes exactly. There are, of course, troops of constant readiness, but most of them do nothing useful in peacetime.

[seregatara1969]

oertschneptlshnqwailshhevwarshdlorkUI was indignant Again

[Revival]

And how will it work?
Well, they will ask why?
Answer: for self-defense.
Proposes to prohibit buying for self-defense as a class?

[seregatara1969]

Ban again? Is it necessary? Can increase control over the person issuing a weapon purchase permit? To buy a weapon you need a bunch of papers. Permission from neighbors, precinct, safe for storage should be. And this FSE should be checked and controlled by someone

[Nexcom]

Really permission from neighbors ??? No, I'm just not the owner of the weapon, that's why I'm amazed. And what if everything else is in order, and the neighbors are against, then will they not give permission to buy and own ??? Well, if so ...

[seregatara1969]

Needed for residents of an apartment building.

[Nexcom]

Yes, I realized that for a multi-apartment ... No, well, some kind of kapets ...

[Kushka]

[quote = -Dmitry -] [quote] Give and how. The gun gives even a woman a chance to fight off the gramilla. [/ quote] This is if she knows how to shoot him. Otherwise, the gun gives you a chance to shoot someone third, not the criminal. [Quote]
Two examples: I read one day, both cases in Odessa.
The old central part of the city, a young woman in the field of midnight gets out of the taxi and goes to the arch of the house. There, three loafers begin to behave obscenely. The lady immediately grabs a pistol from her purse (who has not watched as his wife fumbles in her purse in search of a cell phone, keys) and makes a shot!
Those. a woman in a stressful situation, clearly draws a weapon, clearly takes it correctly, and clearly presses the trigger! And then her husband appears on the balcony and also with a pistol!
Another district of Odessa, 9-storey buildings, Spouses in adulthood return home closer to the 23rd.
At the entrance there are two loafers, one of them relieves a small need. The spouse makes a remark, loafing
begins to threaten. The man grabs the pistol, but the bully knocks it out of his hands skillfully. Wife
instantly picks it up from the grass, RIGHT takes it and immediately fires SEVERAL shots!
AND GOT!
Conclusion - the citizens had weapons and it saved them, and the gopota received bullets.
the citizens did not just carry weapons, but were trained and trained.

[Nexcom]

And then what happened to the defenders? They did not screw the excess of self-defense?

There was just a real case when a girl in St. Petersburg fought off three rapists from a trauma and almost sat down for exceeding. I do not speak maliciously and do not pry, I am genuinely curious with interest.

For the use of even trauma and even for self-defense in our country can also be, oh, how fraught with the defender ....

[Kushka]

So it was in the chronicle, and what happened then ...
and then what? Got caught?
When a person is threatened with an attack, stress, force majeure - go and remember
all rules and formalities. But at the trial everything will pour out into "bitter tears"
(why did you decide that this was an attack? and why was it charged,
was it on the fuse or not ....)
And if there are "expensive" lawyers on the other side ...
In short, it is desirable to go to court with a pistol too.

[Dartik]

This will happen, as psychological problems reign in society in the Russian Federation. If you look at developed countries, where the permission is approximately the same as that of the Russian Federation (Norway), when were there such acts of terrorism? There is a prosperous society, there is no psychosis. As they are not frightened either by the war, or by the decline in income, and so on. If everything goes well in the country, then the psyche of the people will be under control.

[Nexcom]

Excuse me, but Breivik did not accidentally arrange a mass execution in Norway?

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Have you heard anything about statistics?
The number of massacres in Norway and ours is definitely different. A psychologically healthy society gives birth to a much smaller number of such animals than a society with nerves disheveled by socio-economic difficulties. This aspect cannot be ignored.

[alystan]

You about Norway compile more extensive statistics, in addition to massacres, take an interest in cases of mass pedophilia, for example. And in general, the history of this country is very strange and cannot be a standard in any way (perhaps only in terms of living standards), but in all other respects it is an ideal anti-example to follow.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: alystan

everything else

And even in the number of massacres? Do you think less is worse? Where is the logic?

[Nexcom]

Yes you are right. There are clearly fewer massacres in Norway than in Russia now. There are almost no murders there, mostly a hooligan or theft of bicycles and from shops. And they are mostly "refugees". In all the countries of the Scandinavian Triangle, the situation is almost the same. In 2000-2001 I worked under a contract in Sweden. Not a single murder in a year. It is true that even then the "refugees" did not come in large numbers ... What is going on there now? An indicative fact is that a Swede acquaintance escaped to New Zealand with his family from the dominance of "refugees" and their criminals. I don't think that now there is exactly the same crime rate as it was 10 years ago. Although, again, mass shootings since the time of Breivik seem to have not happened more. In principle, this is an indicator, if you do not take into account the crime brought by the "refugees".

[Usher]

Quote: Dartik

This will happen, as psychological problems reign in society in the Russian Federation. If you look at developed countries, where the permission is approximately the same as that of the Russian Federation (Norway), when were there such acts of terrorism? There is a prosperous society, there is no psychosis. As they are not frightened either by the war, or by the decline in income, and so on. If everything goes well in the country, then the psyche of the people will be under control.

no need to push this nonsense here. USA as an example to you.

[faiver]

All this is bullshit, such shots are not calculated, exceptions to generally accepted norms were, are and will always be. Every time there were and will continue to be screams wherever the law enforcement officers were looking, but you can’t take note of everyone. Restrictions on the possession and use of firearms in our country only play into the hands of such people, and those in power because they have something to fear, but there were, are and will be crazy people, and they know that only 2-3% of the population have weapons (this includes security forces ) will continue to kill in one way or another...

[Micfoster]

No restrictions will help! If a person has a bad head, he will do business even without a firearm. The heads (society) need to be treated or educated correctly.

[Usher]

Quote: Micfoster

No restrictions will help! If a person has a bad head, he will do business even without a firearm. The heads (society) need to be treated or educated correctly.

Only with a firearm he will do much worse.

[syndicalist]

When Khinshteins talk about bans on weapons, they don’t mean crazy people at all. They don't care about them at all. They are afraid not of shooters, but of ordinary citizens who, being armed, will be able to threaten the presumptuous government.

[Nexcom]

how will they threaten? Are they going to shoot the deputies?
or will they storm the Central Bank to get to Nabiullina and get even for raising rates?

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Nexcom

how will they threaten? Are they going to shoot the deputies?

The shooting of bailiffs in Sochi, the shooting at Lubyanka, the shooting of the administration of Krasnogorsk, the Primorsky partisans - these are just the first things that came to mind. I am sure that if you search on the Internet, you will find many more similar cases when someone with a weapon in their hands attacked government officials.

[alystan]

If the Supreme Council is also power for you, then how do you explain the shooting from tank guns of the White House in Moscow?

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

I wrote in detail about the difference between the attitude towards the security forces and towards the people in a long post a little higher. Your example goes in there.

[Earnest]

Quote: Nexcom

a friend of the eldest daughter had recently served - he told me that only MMG was in the company, they only gave combat machines at the shooting range. apparently to "shooters" not to provoke .... vigil, so to speak. But, IMHO, this is still too much. This is an army, nevertheless, and not a scout camp to keep MMG in companies there.

MGM, probably mass-dimensional mock-ups? What kind of army is this, what country? Where is there so much money in the defense budget to allow a company to have two sets of weapons - cold and combat?

[Nexcom]

MMG = mass-dimensional layout. This is the official name and not my imagination.
And the army is Russian. I won't mention the part number. Moreover, the deactivated weapon was clearly not the newest, according to him. I assume that they simply deactivated the old, heavily used machines and gave them out for training to assemble and disassemble and run cross-country. Again, they had Caucasians in a separate company, even with their own mullah. At the shooting range, they were given 4 combat units per company, of which the entire company fired at targets.
Although I once ran cross-country races with a combat AK-74, they were also not very fresh (the bluing was very worn, and there were potholes on the receiver in the area of ​​the cartridge ejection window. Everything on this 74 dangled like a saddle on a cow. There was even one wedge I caught it once at a training ground with Barnaul ammunition (they opened the zinc in front of us - I remember that there were Barnaul cartridges).

Your right not to believe.

[boriz]

Short-barreled guns should be allowed. With strict control and reasonable changes in legislation. Otherwise, they kill you at home, and you have to think about how not to get charged yourself. While you are thinking, you will be killed.

[Usher]

Quote: boriz

Short-barreled guns should be allowed. With strict control and reasonable changes in legislation. Otherwise, they kill you at home, and you have to think about how not to get charged yourself. While you are thinking, you will be killed.

If they have short guns, then they will definitely come to kill.

[16112014nk]

"We need change"...
We need a lustration law. And check all officials in accordance with the law: deputies, ministers, etc. But who will offer and accept it?

[alystan]

It’s too late to drink Borjomi... That is, lustration was already carried out when Gaidar and his team took power into their paws. Then the former communists joined them and we see what kind of hydra came out of this, worse than any Calabrian, Sicilian and other yakuza!? Now try to throw this hydra off the throne, nothing will come of it. Even if it works out, who have we raised over the past 30 years - consumers/robbers and entirely effective managers. It will only turn out to change the sewing for soap. After all, lustration involves tearing away from the state trough all those who worked for the previous (unpolished) government and recruiting new and honest ones (???). But there are no such people in the Russian state reserve bins, since little Cardinal Kiriyenko recruits at his own discretion and “evaluates” the results of their studies personally himself. And what “worthy” ones do you think he will let this little Napoleon pass through his sieve?

[Der Spiegel]

You should carefully read the “message” of this bastard on the social network. He made it clear that this will happen no matter how strict the legislation is.
We need to put things in order in our heads. And not to tighten and limit.

[Tank hard]

[quoteKhinshtein reminded that there are other means of self-defense, including non-lethal ones, and there is no need to buy hunting weapons for this][/quote]
Actually, everything you need to know about Khinshtein...)) What dimension do they live in?!((

[Usher]

Quote: Tank Hard

[quoteKhinshtein reminded that there are other means of self-defense, including non-lethal ones, and there is no need to buy hunting weapons for this]

Actually, everything you need to know about Khinshtein...)) In what dimension do they live?!(([/quote]
Why does a city brat need a hunting rifle?

[geologist]

“House on a slope” was the title of an article in one newspaper about the incident in Vladivostok. Two students stabbed to death the owner of the apartment they were renting for money. This was in the 70s under the USSR. I studied at the same faculty with these guys, although I was not closely acquainted. They received 14-15 years. Then a strange game began among my fellow students. The guys from my room took knives and went to rob their peers on Lugovaya Square. They resisted arrest and received 8 years, one of whom had his hip shattered by a bullet and became disabled. Then three of our men seized the shooting range and started a shootout with the police on Lugovaya Square. We received 15. This game seemed to have no end, but then the new dean and his assistants walked through the chamber and confiscated all the knives and guns, of which we had a lot because we had brought hunting knives, small guns and double-barreled shotguns from geological practice. Somehow everything gradually calmed down and we now relieved stress only with our fists. Now a new game is taking place among students and schoolchildren, which must be stopped as soon as possible, right up to the dismissal of school directors and deans who think only about the educational process. Another way is to give all the children weapons, helmets, body armor and let them figure it out themselves, since the adults have forgotten about them.

[Seamaster]

Why argue? Whoever wants it buys a weapon, whoever doesn’t want it doesn’t buy it. If there is an appropriate law, of course.
Now they have decided to place security guards in schools, universities, and kindergartens. UNARMED. Then why are they sitting, from whom are they protecting? What do they get money for?
If a pensioner were sitting in Perm with an old revolver or shotgun, he would have killed this student after the first shot.
And 8 people would have survived.
This means, IN REALITY, opponents of the sale of weapons on this site are SUPPORTERS of psychos and murderers.
The blood of 8 killed is on your hands!

[Usher]

Quote: Seamaster

Why argue? Whoever wants it buys a weapon, whoever doesn’t want it doesn’t buy it. If there is an appropriate law, of course.
Now they have decided to place security guards in schools, universities, and kindergartens. UNARMED. Then why are they sitting, from whom are they protecting? What do they get money for?
If a pensioner were sitting in Perm with an old revolver or shotgun, he would have killed this student after the first shot.
And 8 people would have survived.
This means, IN REALITY, opponents of the sale of weapons on this site are SUPPORTERS of psychos and murderers.
The blood of 8 killed is on your hands!

Fuck LOGIC!!! If weapons were more accessible, not 8 people would have the blood on their hands.

[zenion]

Exactly as Jaroslav Hasek wrote - tear cards and not punish gamblers. Maybe the situation is like what Friedrich Engels wrote about, that the government creates such an environment in which people like this grow up. In what environment I was brought up, I learned this. It's the 90s coming back. This is how the genes work now.

[Max PV]

I am becoming more and more convinced that a deputy and reason are incompatible things. Where should we tighten things up more? And most importantly, how will this toughening hinder the criminal? A person who is going to commit a crime will a priori obtain a weapon - not a gun, but an IED, not an IED, but a knife or an ax, or even more simply, a car - at speed into the crowd. And it’s not difficult to get or make a firearm for a crime; it’s difficult for a law-abiding citizen to have one for self-defense (more precisely, with our legislation, it’s actually impossible, since self-defense in 99% of cases is a crime).
We need to fight not with weapons, but with minors -hidden-censorship-. Do not publicly savor such cases, discussing measures and reasons, but mercilessly hound such “shooters”, pouring streams of dirt, sift through a microscope and expose his “dirty laundry” to everyone; you can even embellish or invent, but in no case try to understand and forgive. Make sure that in the public consciousness, a person who does this is obviously perceived as a loser and a “rooster”, worse or at the level of a pedophile. And it is not weapons legislation that needs to be banned or tightened, but control over the media, so that they do not propagandize, justify, or even try to understand such people.

[Usher]

Quote: Max PV

I am becoming more and more convinced that a deputy and reason are incompatible things. Where should we tighten things up more? And most importantly, how will this toughening hinder the criminal? A person who is going to commit a crime will a priori obtain a weapon - not a gun, but an IED, not an IED, but a knife or an ax, or even more simply, a car - at speed into the crowd. And it’s not difficult to get or make a firearm for a crime; it’s difficult for a law-abiding citizen to have one for self-defense (more precisely, with our legislation, it’s actually impossible, since self-defense in 99% of cases is a crime).
We need to fight not with weapons, but with minors -hidden-censorship-. Do not publicly savor such cases, discussing measures and reasons, but mercilessly hound such “shooters”, pouring streams of dirt, sift through a microscope and expose his “dirty laundry” to everyone; you can even embellish or invent, but in no case try to understand and forgive. Make sure that in the public consciousness, a person who does this is obviously perceived as a loser and a “rooster”, worse or at the level of a pedophile. And it is not weapons legislation that needs to be banned or tightened, but control over the media, so that they do not propagandize, justify, or even try to understand such people.

But the fact is the fact. A bullet is more likely to kill you than a fist or even a knife. And this “shooter” killed people not with his fists or a car, but with a gun.

[Klingon]

A stupid proposal that won't change anything. Well, if they don’t sell him a gun, the guy will buy a samurai sword and do the same. Here the problem is different: this person had obvious mental problems for a long time, but this fact was missed, ignored, poorly controlled, etc. - a systemic problem: upbringing, education, medicine, etc.

[Pushkar]

Quote: Klingon

this one had obvious mental problems

Well, yes, where are the family and the school looking, now the lawyers will write them down as crazy, he left them instructions for an excuse on social networks.

[UltraTotenkopF]

Gentlemen, one question is interesting to me: if he had pressed on the car, then why would they tighten the purchase of vehicles? It’s time for Khinshtein to admit the complete failure of youth policy in Russia and stop talking nonsense... IT’S NOT WEAPONS THAT KILL, BUT PEOPLE!

[zenion]

An old but true proverb: like the priest, so is the arrival.

[Pushkar]

Why don't they sell short barrels? Yes, because they are convenient for concealed carry. Why was the security guard killed? Yes, because he was simply framed. Have you seen how cashiers' workplaces are equipped in banks or at serious military facilities such as ZKP (recessed command post)? Armored glass, the workplace is equipped for combat, an alarm button, an entrance lock. And then they made him a concierge. He may have seen that an idiot in a Hitler helmet was walking with a Turkish shotgun, but what could he do? I dialed 112, and there were long beeps. May the kingdom of heaven be upon him.

[Valteria]

Again, just chatter .. The education system needs to be changed .. Teachers have been turned into workers “providing services” .. This sounds very crazy and the same attitude towards them is shared by students and especially their parents .. The teacher is always extreme and to blame. And then such scumbags appear...
During the times of the USSR, the Teacher was sacred for both students and parents; they were cultivated everywhere, just like doctors and working scientists. .
And our teachers identified all sorts of “abnormal people with deviations” even in the elementary grades and, if something happened, they registered them or sent them to special schools..
The Internet has long been filled with videos of “students” how they mock teachers and others and get away with everything .. This is the result!!!
PS Should we legalize weapons or place armored personnel carriers with machine gunners near every educational institution? The problem will not be solved, it will only get worse.
You can kick!

[George Koval]

In Russia, traditionally, they want to solve all problems with prohibitive measures, but, as you can see, nothing works. I am convinced that if Russian citizens had the opportunity to possess firearms, then the freaks who shoot children and students would be neutralized already on the approach to the educational institution. To begin with, allow security forces and veterans of security forces who have passed a medical examination to carry weapons. And today we have that all the scoundrels have weapons, and normal law-abiding people are unarmed and defenseless

[Agent cooper]

Another fool with his own: give people weapons and the problem will be solved.

[Usher]

Quote: Georgy Koval

In Russia, traditionally, they want to solve all problems with prohibitive measures, but, as you can see, nothing works. I am convinced that if Russian citizens had the opportunity to possess firearms, then the freaks who shoot children and students would be neutralized already on the approach to the educational institution. To begin with, allow security forces and veterans of security forces who have passed a medical examination to carry weapons. And today we have that all the scoundrels have weapons, and normal law-abiding people are unarmed and defenseless

Seriously? Are you friends with your head?

[Kushka]

Quote: Tuzik

maybe the problem is not in the weapon, and in education?

So, we are talking about the father?
This is what the Russian publication Znak wrote about it:
with reference to neighbors of the Bekmansurov family.
"One of the interlocutors noted that Timur Bekmansurov’s father does not live together
with his family and, perhaps, is “somewhere in Udmurtia, making a living from the war.”
The man said that the father of the Perm shooter became a mercenary since the war
in Chechnya and was in all the hot spots, including the Donbass.
Timur Bekmansurov himself, according to a neighbor, has seen weapons since childhood.
He learned to shoot on several of his father's examples, which
I still have it in my apartment. As the interlocutor noted, 38 thousand rubles ($519)
the gun Bekmansurov came to university with was given to him in the summer
parents. Together with his classmate Volodya Timur Bekmansurov
I went to the range to shoot my gun,” he added.

[Usher]

Quote: Kushka

Quote: Tuzik

maybe the problem is not in the weapon, and in education?

So, we are talking about the father?
This is what the Russian publication Znak wrote about it:
with reference to neighbors of the Bekmansurov family.
"One of the interlocutors noted that Timur Bekmansurov’s father does not live together
with his family and, perhaps, is “somewhere in Udmurtia, making a living from the war.”
The man said that the father of the Perm shooter became a mercenary since the war
in Chechnya and was in all the hot spots, including the Donbass.
Timur Bekmansurov himself, according to a neighbor, has seen weapons since childhood.
He learned to shoot on several of his father's examples, which
I still have it in my apartment. As the interlocutor noted, 38 thousand rubles ($519)
the gun Bekmansurov came to university with was given to him in the summer
parents. Together with his classmate Volodya Timur Bekmansurov
I went to the range to shoot my gun,” he added.

A mercenary? do we have mercenaries? LOL

[p0pulivox]

About 20 years ago it seemed that, despite the radical change in the way of life in society, there would not be such mass shootings in educational institutions and crowded places as in the USA (our people are different). Alas...
Statements by deputies and officials after each tragedy have not fundamentally changed anything in this regard and will not change anything. Without the normalization of social relations there will be no sense.
ps They wrote in the comments that there were similar incidents in the Soviet army. Yes, they were in places of forced concentration of young people of active age and were a consequence of the quality of human material. But there were no executions situationally similar to the United States.

[Agent cooper]

There is no state ideology; the Kremlin cannot offer the people anything other than “Russia is an energy superpower” and “to die for a bun.”

Previously, boys in the USSR dreamed of becoming astronauts, but now only God knows what is in their heads.

[Usher]

Quote: Agent Cooper

There is no state ideology; the Kremlin cannot offer the people anything other than “Russia is an energy superpower” and “to die for a bun.”

Previously, boys in the USSR dreamed of becoming astronauts, but now only God knows what is in their heads.

Thanks to people like you, who talk nonsense, the boys have stupidity in their heads.

[Kapral Alphych]

Life needs to be changed, not legislation! My grandfather had been hunting with a gun since he was 11 years old, but he never even dreamed of testing it on his classmates! But modern individualists and Darwinists only believe that everyone around them owes them something and they alone “have the right”! Read his “farewell letter” - no prohibitions in the weapons legislation can cure this! Education, changing the level and quality of life, morality - that’s what can help here! And yet another gun law is like putting another thread on a boiling pot of soup, hoping it won’t blow!

[75 Sergey]

In addition, the cost of weapons must be increased five to ten times!
In general, reduce the number of TV channels to 5 and limit broadcasting by time, the Internet and films only through censorship, communication via the Internet to a minimum and only through the websites of official institutions.
All libraries of technical, scientific and fiction literature should be digitized and made available for free access.

[Pushkar]

Quote: 75Sergey

in general, reduce the number of TV channels to 5 and limit broadcasting by time, the Internet and films only through censorship, communication via the Internet to a minimum

And sew yellow stars on the front and back. It will help, it will definitely help.

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Is Khinshtein gaining popularity through blood?
He has already been noted for his idle talk during the tragedy in Kazan!

[AB]

Oh, and it’s difficult with our Duma, no matter what convocation it is. There is an order from above to ban civilian weapons and the Duma says “approved”. The government of its people is afraid, very afraid.
Here again, another psycho committed a massacre. AND? United Russia member Khinshtein's reaction is predictable. At the next meeting of the Duma, the collective Khinshtein will begin, for the umpteenth time, to tighten the screws. Doing everything possible to ensure that a maniac, mentally unstable or frostbitten criminal could kill as many law-abiding citizens as possible. Our law enforcement agencies do not always make it to the scene of events on time. In Perm, it was lucky that traffic police officers were nearby and one shot was enough to calm the killer. A if the guard had a gun at the entrance, maybe everything was different...

[g1v2]

Is it interesting that we should expect a new series of articles in the near future for the legalization of short-barreled guns and other firearms, or will the customers of such articles at least wait until the current tragedy is forgotten?

[ermak124.0]

We need to talk more about these scoundrels. They've been promoted - at least air them out. There's just so much empty talk from the media on this topic.

[ermak124.0]

Quote: Agent Cooper

Another fool with his own: give people weapons and the problem will be solved.

Or another with his own: Ban! Ban everything that poses a potential threat: knives, bottles, cars, sticks, frying pans, bricks, etc.... etc...." .

[av58]

Must be quoted in full. Khinshtein said that he understands when a RURAL resident buys a gun. Everything else is incomprehensible to Khinshtein.
In this regard, I have another question: why doesn’t Khinshtein raise the question of disarmament of the same Russian National Guard or the police after employees of these organizations shot at Russian citizens without any reason, and not at rallies, but in everyday life?

[standan]

As for me, I would issue permits from 21, only to those who have served in the Armed Forces or to employees of law enforcement agencies, the Ministry of Emergency Situations, and the rest to the bathhouse :)

[MrFYGY]

There were no similar outcries after a number of shooting incidents where the perpetrators were “former” people.

[alystan]

Damn it, life is no longer life without your own home arsenal!?
They are accustomed to banditry, they are accustomed to the fact that best of all, and without any national guards, the citizen “lamda” can (or should already) protect himself/herself!?

[lopvlad]

According to Khinshtein, legislation in this area should be tightened. In particular, we need control over the acquisition of weapons, it is necessary to control the purpose of purchasing weapons.

For starters, it wouldn’t hurt to have an age of up to 21 to purchase a weapon and introduce articles into the legislation to combat pseudo-hunters (if you don’t go hunting for a certain period, that means you don’t need to have a hunting weapon).

[alystan]

Why won’t you and your hunters calm down?! We are talking about the free sale of weapons, which in principle should not exist; it turns out that all sorts of Khinshteins defend such a sale even at the level of the State Duma. Hunting associations and other associations have always worked well, so what now needs to happen to disrupt the functioning of a well-oiled mechanism?

[tank64rus]

Once again, almost according to Bulgakov, devastation nests not in gun stores, but in heads.
All the media plus the Internet work to educate young people about two basic laws in life: the first, Loot decides everything, and man is a wolf to man. The result is always natural. Well, the deputies will tighten things up again, but that won’t make their heads any clearer.

[alystan]

You just need to see who is hiding behind these media and the Internet, whose ears are sticking out behind their financing, and therefore control and management?!
So the Americans are quietly turning our children into such uncontrollable ones.

[MrFYGY]

Khinshtein, if weapons appear anywhere in the media, can’t even eat, expresses his position or the next pushes through the ban. There is a pathological mental fixation on a certain topic.

On this topic. Alas, such things will happen more and more every year. The authorities have neither the desire (real, not using a reason for their own purposes), nor the means.

Why engage with society if you can profit from its ignorance and weakness?

All such events are just “collateral damage” at the celebration of the lives of successful gentlemen.

[Zomanus]

Well, if there weren’t a gun, there would be an axe, a bomb, a knife or some other lethal weapon.
This happens all over the world, it’s just less common here, that’s why it resonates.

[Alt 22]

Criminals will get weapons regardless of the tightening - or they will cook explosives according to any of the Internet recipes, or simply, strictly according to the law, like this scumbag, they will receive permission to use a gun.

There is no need to prohibit it here - because there will be no firearms, they will attack with knives, homemade pikes, crossbows, axes, clubs.
Here we need to return the people's right to self-defense!
Think for yourself - how many would this guy shoot if all the teachers at the university, and at least every tenth of the students, had a gun?
Would he be able to go inside the building so calmly if the guard wasn’t hanging around there “for show,” but had a normal submachine gun and body armor with a good helmet?
It is necessary to SIMPLIFY the receipt of weapons by the people, and change the legislation, removing responsibility from people when using weapons against armed terrorists, so that a person who shot a mad dog is not thrown into jail by the authorities “for exceeding the limits of self-defense,” but is presented with the title of Hero of Russia - as a man who saved dozens of potential victims!

[72jora72]

According to State Duma deputy Alexander Khinshtein, the requirements for those who acquire weapons should be tightened.

Isn't it time for the competent authorities to take a closer look at Mr. Khinshtein......?

[Vadim Kraft]

When applying for a license, it is necessary to abolish fees from citizens in the form of paid certificates and actually check the health of applicants for a license. It is clear that in all recent cases, the shooters had problems with their heads, but in the mental hospital they took the money and stamped them “healthy.” And about the certificate for 2 tr. I’m generally silent at the drug dispensary, it testifies that the person who took the test the day before did not use drugs and is valid for 5 years :)

[Codett]

Here we are... again the weapons are to blame for the degenerates from the state. The Duma is fed up, it’s obvious that the problem is in education and the displacement of values ​​among young people, as well as corrupted morality, social networks Tik Tok and other nonsense, if you watch all these reality and talk shows on TV, a healthy person’s roof will start leaking