The heroic struggle of the battleship "Marat"

175
The heroic struggle of the battleship "Marat"
Damaged battleship Baltic fleet "Marat"

In Soviet times, this ship was depicted on postage stamps and posters. He was devoted to articles in newspapers and magazines. The flagship of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet, armed with 305-mm guns, was able to smash the enemy with its powerful artillery. The defender of the defense of Leningrad, the battleship Marat was the strike core of the Baltic Fleet, its symbol.

"Petropavlovsk"


The ship was laid down in 1909 in St. Petersburg at the Baltic Shipyard. It was a Sevastopol-class dreadnought.



The first dreadnoughts of the Russian fleet were developed under the guidance of engineer, professor of the Naval Academy Ivan Bubnov and with the participation of mathematician and shipbuilder Alexei Krylov. In 1911, the ship "Petropavlovsk" was launched, in December 1914 it was enlisted in the Baltic Fleet. The battleship's crew consisted of more than 1 people. It was a grandiose naval shipbuilding project at the time. The ship took part in the First World War.

In 1918, during the Ice Campaign of the Baltic Fleet, together with other ships, the Baltic Fleet moved from Helsingfors to Kronstadt. On May 31, 1919, the only naval battle of the "Petropavlovsk" (and the battleship from the "Sevastopol" series) took place. British destroyers pursued the destroyer Azard, which was conducting reconnaissance under the cover of the battleship. Our destroyer brought the enemy straight to the guns of the Petropavlovsk. The dreadnought fired at the enemy with 305-mm, and then 120-mm guns. The British destroyers, which approached the battleship up to 47 cables, retreated.

In June 1919, "Petropavlovsk" took part in the suppression of the uprising of the garrisons of the forts "Krasnaya Gorka" and "Gray Horse". The forts revolted when the White Guards attacked Petrograd, and hoped for the support of the British fleet. The red battleships "Andrey Pervozvanny" and "Petropavlovsk" fired at the positions of the rebels, and they left the forts.

In March 1921, the ship's crew took part in the Kronstadt uprising. The mutiny was suppressed, part of the battleship's crew fled to Finland. On March 31, 1921, the ship was renamed "Marat", in honor of the French revolutionary Jean-Paul Marat.


The battleship "Petropavlovsk" at anchor. Pre-revolutionary years

"Marat"


In June 1925, during a training campaign on the battleship "Marat", People's Commissar for Military and Naval Affairs Mikhail Frunze was holding his flag. In 1928-1931, the ship was repaired and modernized. Before the war, the ship made sea voyages to Finland, Sweden, Norway, England and the Baltic republics. In 1938, the Marat was the first in the world to test the magnetic mine protection system developed at the Leningrad Physics Institute under the leadership of Anatoly Aleksandrov. In the spring of 1941, the mine protection system was installed, and the Marat became the first Soviet ship to be protected from magnetic mines.

During the Winter War with Finland, the Baltic Fleet flagship fired at enemy coastal positions in the Vyborg area. The beginning of the Great Patriotic War "Marat" met in Kronstadt. Over the summer and autumn, more than 600 sailors from the battleship went to fight in the marines.

In August 1941, the German army reached the approaches to Leningrad. On September 8, 1941, German and Finnish troops blockaded Leningrad (Leningrad in the blockade) and the main base of the Baltic Fleet - Kronstadt. The German Army Group North tried to take Leningrad on the move, capture the second most important city in the Soviet Union and destroy the Russian Baltic Fleet. Thus, the Germans turned the Baltic Sea into their lake, established a strong and land connection with Scandinavia, their Finnish allies and resource base. They created a threat from the north-west for Moscow, and could send large forces of the northern group to other directions.

Leningrad and Kronstadt were surrounded. The bombing and shelling continued day and night. The Nazis tried to crush our troops in Leningrad, to break the enemy's morale. The Baltflot and its flagship Marat played an important role in the defense of Leningrad. The sailors erected numerous fortifications, hundreds of bunkers, for which they used armor plates from reserves. More than 200 firing points, armored with ship steel, were urgently built at Pulkovo Heights alone. The Leningrad system included the battleships Marat and October Revolution, the cruisers Gorky, Kirov, Petropavlovsk and other ships.

Dozens of batteries were erected with the help of the naval artillery of the fleet. The Baltic sailors installed 130-mm naval batteries and guns removed from the Aurora. The Neva fortified position was built. The ship batteries near the Ivanovskie rapids were at the forefront of the defense during the entire period of the Leningrad defense: only the river. The Neva separated them from the Nazis. Four large-caliber railway batteries, manned by sailors, defended Leningrad from land. Naval aviation and anti-aircraft artillery defended the city. Almost half of the personnel of the Baltic Fleet fought on land.

The artillery of the battleship "Marat" has been firing at the Nazis since September 9th. The naval and anti-aircraft artillery of the fleet and the flagship held back the enemy's onslaught, did not give the Wehrmacht the opportunity to begin the assault on the city. The ship's artillery power was one of the main factors that did not allow the Germans to break into Leningrad. At the beginning of the blockade, the Soviet battleship was anchored in the bucket of the Sea Canal opposite Strelna and fired at enemy positions. In the first days of the blockade, "Marat" fired 953 shells of the main caliber at the enemy.


The battleship of the Baltic Fleet "Marat" at anchorage. 1940

Battleship Death


The German command concentrated the efforts of the Air Force and artillery on the bombing of Kronstadt and the destruction of the main combat units of the Baltic Fleet.

On September 16, 1941, the Luftwaffe carried out a massive raid and were able to damage the Marat (four direct hits of 250-kg bombs). Also, ten 150-mm artillery shells hit the Soviet flagship. 78 sailors were killed and wounded. On the battleship, some mechanisms were out of order, the fourth turret of the main caliber, a group of 76-mm anti-aircraft guns aft and a bow battery of 37-mm anti-aircraft guns were damaged. This seriously weakened the battleship's air defense. And the Soviet command was unable to strengthen the air defense of Kronstadt and ships, everything that was available was thrown into the defense of the city. All naval aviation worked in the interests of the front command.

"Marat" went under its own power to Kronstadt and on the 18th moored at the pier of Ust-Rogatka. The ship retained its combat capability and its main caliber guns continued to fire at the enemy. To destroy the Russian battleship, the Germans brought in one-color bombs from Germany. One of the German aces who attacked the Marat was Hans-Ulrich Rudel. On September 21-23, the Luftwaffe carried out a series of massive raids on Kronstadt. The small air defense forces of Kronstadt and the weakened anti-aircraft artillery of the battleship could not repel all the attacks of the German bastards of the Ju-87.

On September 23, German dive bombers attacked the battleship. The first one-ton bomb fell off the port side. The ship was heeled to starboard. Then another one-ton bomb hit the nose. She pierced the armor, exploded inside the ship, which caused the detonation of the ammunition of the first turret of the main caliber. There was a powerful explosion that destroyed the bow tower, the superstructure of the ship with its posts, anti-aircraft guns, the foremast with the forward conning tower, etc. The bow chimney fell. Shrapnel scattered all over Srednyaya harbor. The pillar of smoke rose to 1 km. The ship's commander, Captain 2nd Rank P.K. Ivanov, First Mate Captain 2nd Rank V.S.Chufistov, and 324 more people were killed. The ship received 10 thousand tons of water with a displacement of 23 thousand and sank at a depth of 11 meters.

Here is how one of the eyewitnesses described the death of a warship:

“I clearly see how a huge foremast with ladders, wheelhouses, bridges and platforms, completely dotted with figures in white sailor's uniforms, slowly separates from the ship, does not fall to the side very quickly, and then splits into parts and crashes into the water with a crash. .. Just below the mast, the gun turret has also slowly risen, its three 12-inch guns break off and also fly into the water. The bay seems to be boiling from the mass of red-hot steel thrown into it ”.


Aerial view of the damaged Soviet battleship Marat


Part of the foremast of the battleship of the Baltic Fleet "Marat", thrown from the ship by the force of the explosion. She was raised and placed on the wall of the Kronstadt harbor

Floating battery "Marat"


During the struggle for survivability, the sailors managed to prevent the flooding of part of the ship's compartments. Sailors from other ships arrived to the rescue. The battleship's hull lay to the bottom, but the depth was shallow and it did not sink completely. The sailors managed to land the battleship on an even keel, and restoration work soon began. The crew of the "Marat" was assisted by the rescuers of "Signal" and "Meteorite", the Expedition of Special Purpose Underwater Works (EPRON), workers of the Kronstadt repair plant.

There was simply no ship after the second tower. The third and fourth towers of the main caliber were intact, the second tower needed repair. Therefore, we decided to use the "Marat" as a non-self-propelled floating battery. Captain 3rd Rank L.E. Rodichev took command of the ship. A crew of 357 people was retained on the ship.

By the selfless efforts of the sailors and workers, the Marat was partially restored in October, and the battleship again stood up to defend Leningrad. The 120-mm guns were removed, three batteries were created, which strengthened the city's land defenses. On October 31, 1941, the guns of the third and fourth turrets opened fire on the Nazis, in November 1942 - the second turret of the main caliber also "spoke".

To protect the stationary floating battery from enemy artillery fire and air raids, granite slabs 32–45 cm thick were laid on the deck, and the boiler room was reinforced with armor plates.

"Marat" fought against enemy batteries. So, on December 12, 1941, the ship suppressed a German battery near the village of Bezbotny. On December 28, the disabled battleship was engaged in a firefight with 280-mm guns of the enemy railway battery at the Novy Peterhof station. 52 shells were fired at our ship, four hit the target. "Marat" received significant damage, but suppressed the German battery. One German shell sunk the auxiliary vessel "Vodoley". At the beginning of 1942, the Marat's crew increased to 500 people. Anti-aircraft guns were installed to protect the floating battery. The ship continued to fight the German artillery. The Nazis fired at the "Marat", but did not achieve significant destruction.


The battleship of the Baltic Fleet "Marat" in Kronstadt during emergency repairs. At the side of the battleship a tug of the Izhorets type


Soviet battleship of the Baltic Fleet "Marat" during emergency repair and conversion into a floating battery


Damaged battleship "Marat" as a floating battery

May 31, 1943 the ship was returned historical name - "Petropavlovsk". The battleship continued to fight the enemy until the complete liberation of Leningrad from the enemy blockade in January 1944. In June 1944, the battleship's guns fired the last shots at the enemy - during the Vyborg offensive operation.

During the years of the Great Patriotic War, "Marat-Petropavlovsk" fired 1 rounds with its main caliber guns.

After the war, "Petropavlovsk" was going to completely restore, modernize and strengthen the anti-aircraft weapons. Use for this part of the hull of the battleship "Frunze" ("Poltava"). But in the end, these plans were abandoned.

The ship was used as an artillery training vessel. In 1950 the ship was renamed Volkhov. In 1953, they were removed from the fleet and in the early 60s they were sent to the metal. Unfortunately, Petropavlovsk was not preserved as a museum ship like the Aurora.


Calculations of automatic 37-mm anti-aircraft guns 70-K of the battleship "Marat"
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  1. -15
    22 September 2021 05: 46
    In the first days of the blockade, "Marat" fired 953 shells of the main caliber at the enemy.
    We can safely say that it was the naval artillery, that the GK, that anti-aircraft, did not let Leningrad fall.

    One of the German aces who attacked the Marat was Hans-Ulrich Rudel.
    Then he was the slave.


    The author did not mention that granite slabs were laid on the deck of the battleship for greater resistance to shelling. The truth is after the renovation.
    1. +23
      22 September 2021 06: 03
      How did you not mention it? We read the article more carefully.
      1. +20
        22 September 2021 10: 39
        The Germans repeatedly fired at the Marat. On December 12, 1941, out of 23 large-caliber shells fired at the ship, three reached the target, and two of them pierced the upper deck and exploded in the interior. It became clear that the thickness of the horizontal armor was insufficient, so work was accelerated on laying granite slabs from the Kronstadt embankment on the upper deck of the battleship. This work had not yet been completed when on December 28, a 280-mm railway gun, firing 65 shells, began to fire at it. Four of them covered the target, while the transport "Aquarius No. 1" standing at the left side was sunk. One of the shells could have led to a new disaster, but, having passed through the shell and lower charging cellars of the main caliber turret No. 3, fortunately, it did not explode. Subsequently, the reinforced "granite" deck successfully fulfilled its purpose. Despite the fact that on October 25, 1942, three 305-mm shells hit the Marat, on November 6 of the same year - one 203-mm and on October 8, 1943 - another 203-mm projectile, it did not receive any further significant damage.
      2. +2
        22 September 2021 10: 51
        Quote: Grossvater
        We read the article more carefully.

        I've found such an inconsistency -
        On September 23, German dive bombers attacked the battleship. The first one-ton bomb fell off the port side.
        Stuka (Ju-87) really had a bomb load of up to 1000 kg, but at three (!) Suspension points, not one. request Either I don't know something, or the battleship was attacked by other planes.
        1. +22
          22 September 2021 11: 03
          Although the Ju 87B-2 and Ju-87R-2, which the squadron was equipped with, had a maximum bomb load of 1000 kg, during the initial period of the war on the Eastern Front, their standard weapons were mainly high-explosive bombs SC50, SC250 and SC500. Pieces "carried one 250-kg bomb under the fuselage and one 50-kg bomb under each plane, or one 500-kg bomb under the fuselage. Therefore, it is not surprising that in Tirkovo there was no equipment intended for transporting and lifting 1000-kg bombs. As a result, the gunsmiths had to, with the help of other ground personnel, first drag the bombs to the aircraft parking areas, and then manually lift them and hang them under the fuselages of the Stukas.
          On September 16, the command of the 8th Luftwaffe Air Corps requested PC1000 armor-piercing bombs, which were specifically designed to destroy well-armored targets. To understand how they differed from the general-purpose SC1000 high-explosive bombs, it is enough to compare their technical characteristics.
          As you can see, the RS1000 bomb, with an almost equal total mass, was smaller than the SC1000 type bombs, and was significantly inferior to the latter in terms of the mass of the warhead. However, such a charge was enough for an armor-piercing bomb, since it exploded in the interior of ships, forts, etc., where the force of the explosion increased many times due to the enclosure and limited space. The body of the RS1000 bomb had a monolithic structure and was made of forged steel. Its thickness in the bow reached 34 cm. This was a guarantee that, due to the kinetic energy acquired after the release, the bomb would be able to penetrate the armored deck of any ship.
          On September 21, the long-awaited 2 kg bombs finally arrived at the Tirkovo airfield, where two StG1000 Immelman groups were based. The exact number of bombs received is unknown, but from the analysis of subsequent events, it can be concluded that there were no more than ten of them.
          1. +6
            22 September 2021 18: 52
            I sincerely hope that one of those who pulled the bomb got a hernia. Or at least he tore his trousers from straining.
    2. +11
      22 September 2021 06: 10
      Of the approximately 100 thousand shells fired by the Germans near Leningrad, about 30 were fired at the city. The rest was wasted in an unsuccessful counter-artillery struggle.
      Of course, the main merit in this was the transporters of the 1st division of the 101st artillery brigade of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet, but the ships also distinguished themselves.
    3. +7
      22 September 2021 06: 10
      The author mentioned, even indicated the thickness
      1. +4
        22 September 2021 06: 16
        Quote: faiver
        The author mentioned, even indicated the thickness

        Where were my eyes!
        1. +7
          22 September 2021 06: 17
          Well none of us is getting younger hi
    4. +8
      22 September 2021 09: 29
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      One of the German aces who attacked the Marat was Hans-Ulrich Rudel.
      Then he was the slave.

      ... and an unknown pilot. But then he managed to get into the "Marat" and the legend went, which was demanded by Goebbels' propaganda ... more than 500 tanks fellow etc. Why not get into a battleship, why not get into a whole tank army, business then ..
      1. +4
        22 September 2021 13: 23
        Quote: Proxima
        But then he managed to get into the "Marat" and the legend went

        so, it seems, nothing was attached to him for Marat. RK LCD received only in January 42nd.
    5. +1
      22 September 2021 18: 19
      He was then a follower and was not yet an ace at all.
    6. 0
      30 September 2021 14: 23
      After the war, it was necessary to find Rudel and quietly shoot him. Why did the NKVD not think of this before?
  2. +13
    22 September 2021 06: 06
    On the question of the "project of the frightened" and the uniformly linear disposition of artillery.
    In Arizona, in a similar situation, 90% of the crew on board died, and the destruction was such that, hypothetically, of course, there could be no talk in principle about any use.
    1. +6
      22 September 2021 06: 41
      78% of the Arizona crew. More than half of the Maratans were on the shore, and the depth is less
      1. 0
        23 September 2021 14: 03
        Arizona also had a large part on the shore. 90% of those on board.
    2. +3
      22 September 2021 18: 21
      Arizona has two cellars in one location. And the caliber is larger. This means more gunpowder.
      1. +1
        22 September 2021 18: 55
        So the displacement is greater and the project is 30 years younger ...
        1. +8
          22 September 2021 19: 11
          Quote: Jager
          the project is 30 years younger ..

          ... ??? ... belay
          And nothing that "Arizona" (if you meant it) laid down in 1914 (when the "Petropavlovsk" was commissioned), launched in the 15th and entered service in 1916! So the guys only got two years apart wink
      2. 0
        23 September 2021 14: 03
        I wrote about the layout of the artillery.
    3. 0
      28 September 2021 10: 12
      Quote: Grossvater
      On the question of the "project of the frightened" and the uniformly linear disposition of artillery.
      In Arizona, in a similar situation, 90% of the crew on board died, and the destruction was such that, hypothetically, of course, there could be no talk in principle about any use.

      It depends on what detonated there. Without going into details, the composition of the centuries in the cellars, the location of the cellars, the location of the auxiliary caliber cellars and TD and TP ...
  3. +7
    22 September 2021 06: 11
    Thanks to the author, at least this article is written in normal language, unlike the two previous ones.
  4. +9
    22 September 2021 06: 12
    The fact that not a single battleship has been preserved as a museum is bad ...
  5. +11
    22 September 2021 06: 35
    The battleship Marat at sea was able to resist and resist even greater forces of enemy aviation than those of the aviation forces, than when he stood at the pier in Kronstadt. And not only enemy aviation, but also the enemy's long-range artillery. Because a ship in motion is a worse target for enemy aircraft and artillery than an actually stationary target at the berth. After all, if on an artillery ship, even in the open sea, the entire BCH-2 is in good working order, but the ship's progress is not ensured by the BCH-5, the most powerful artillery ship is doomed to death. Can't maneuver! And then Marat at the pier in Kronstadt, where was the opportunity to maneuver against enemy aircraft and artillery? ... Fixed target.
    How many attacks by German aviation could Marat's anti-aircraft artillery be repulsed if the ship was not moving at the pier? Even if he could maneuver even in the water area of ​​the raid, this is not a maneuver of such a huge ship against aviation. And the main caliber of Marat was moved to the floating base, this is the same doomed target against aviation. However, the ship in besieged Leningrad was like a soldier - before dying, destroy as many Germans as possible! And the doomed Marat destroyed hundreds of Germans and more than one German battery. For what honor to the ship and glory to its crew ...
    1. +10
      22 September 2021 09: 13
      In Kronstadt, in addition to its own air defense, the battleship covered the air defense of the base and the aviation of the fleet, there was a Redoubt radar.
      In such a small area as the Gulf of Finland, the battleship was sunk, there are many examples of how dive aircraft dealt with ships on the high seas.
      1. +7
        22 September 2021 11: 26
        Quote: mr.ZinGer
        In Kronstadt, in addition to its own air defense, the battleship covered the air defense of the base and the aviation of the fleet, there was a Redoubt radar.

        In September 1941, the anti-aircraft artillery air defense base consisted of one regiment.
        Kronstadt defended the 1st regiment of anti-aircraft artillery under the command of Captain S.A. Ignatovsky as part of three divisions, whose anti-aircraft weapons were located on Kotlin itself and the forts surrounding it. Two four-gun 76-mm anti-aircraft batteries, combined into the 1st separate anti-aircraft artillery battalion (ozadn), under the command of senior lieutenant N.D. Konopatsky stationed at forts Obruchev (No. 413 and No. 416) and Totleben (No. 412 and No. 418). The composition of the 2nd ozadn under the command of captain P.I. Petrova included four four-gun 76-mm anti-aircraft batteries (No. 414 - Komsomolsky Fort, No. 421 - Carefree, No. 422 - Fort Konstantin, No. 423 - Fort Yuzhny No. 2), and one four-gun 85-mm battery No. 420 on Mortirnaya. The 3rd squad under the command of Senior Lieutenant V.E. Doronin. 76-mm batteries were located: No. 431 - North Fort No. 5, No. 432 - North Fort No. 1, No. 433 - the so-called Military Corner (southeast tip of Kotlin), No. 435 - Northern Fort No. 3, and 85 mm No. 424 was located at Fort Yuzhny No. 1. In addition, there was an anti-aircraft machine-gun company deployed at the southern tip of Ust-Rogatka. A total of 48 76-mm and eight 85-mm guns, as well as three (according to other sources - six) 37-mm anti-aircraft guns, not counting naval artillery.

        The disposition of anti-aircraft batteries did not provide the same density of fire from all directions. The base was most reliably covered from the northwest, and, on the contrary, weakly from the southeast. They were not provided with direct fire cover for the anchorage places of ships in the harbors of Kronstadt, on roadsteads, especially on the Vostochny, where almost all combat-ready large surface ships were concentrated. In fact, they fully participated in repelling enemy air strikes with up to three anti-aircraft artillery batteries, and a battery of 37-mm anti-aircraft guns at Ust-Rogatka. It is the air strikes on September 21 that the Baltic anti-aircraft gunners assess as the most severe, referring primarily to the surprise factor. However, this was not the main point. In the conditions of a massive raid with a "breakout" of the air defense system in a narrow sector, not only the regiment commander, but also the divisional commanders could not centrally control the subordinate forces, and the batteries independently chose targets for shelling. As a result, many enemy aircraft operated without opposition at all.
        © Platonov
        The anti-aircraft artillery air defense system of Kronstadt managed to be adjusted only for the winter.
        And behind loud words fleet aviation a dozen fighters were hiding - all that remained to the Main Base. The rest of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet Air Force worked in the interests of the ground forces.
        1. +4
          22 September 2021 12: 30
          I agree, weak air defense, this is our sore spot, but in the Gulf of Finland the "Marat" was doomed, he had nowhere to hide, not to go out before each raid to go out to sea and maneuver there.
    2. +2
      22 September 2021 10: 21
      Quote: north 2
      a ship in motion is a worse target for enemy aircraft and artillery

      Destroyer Tashkent disagrees with you!
      1. +10
        22 September 2021 12: 39
        And the leader of the destroyers "Kharkov", the destroyers "Merciless" and "Capable", as confirmation of my words. You can't hide from aviation in the Gulf of Finland.
        1. +6
          22 September 2021 12: 58
          All these cases confirm only one thing - in our theater of operations, the ships for enemy aircraft were targets of the same complexity both in the base and on the move.

          And by the way, about the "ease of destroying ships in the base" - no one wants to remember Operation Eisstoss? wink After all, the conditions were ideal - the ships were not just at the base, but also stood in the ice on the river, in an area with good landmarks.
          1. +3
            23 September 2021 08: 38
            "Eisstoss" once again shows the "skill" and courage of the German pilots. Yes, and about "Marat" .... In the book by Yu. Mukhin, where he sneered at the German pilots, there was a diagram of the fall of bombs around the "Marat". The feeling that "Marat" was enchanted. Before Rudel.
    3. +2
      22 September 2021 18: 56
      Nevertheless, the battleship survived.
    4. 0
      28 September 2021 10: 16
      Quote: North 2
      The battleship Marat at sea was able to resist and resist even greater forces of enemy aviation than those of the aviation forces, than when he stood at the pier in Kronstadt. And not only enemy aviation, but also the enemy's long-range artillery. Because a ship in motion is a worse target for enemy aircraft and artillery than an actually stationary target at the berth. After all, if on an artillery ship, even in the open sea, the entire BCH-2 is in good working order, but the ship's progress is not ensured by the BCH-5, the most powerful artillery ship is doomed to death. Can't maneuver! And then Marat at the pier in Kronstadt, where was the opportunity to maneuver against enemy aircraft and artillery? ... Fixed target.
      How many attacks by German aviation could Marat's anti-aircraft artillery be repulsed if the ship was not moving at the pier? Even if he could maneuver even in the water area of ​​the raid, this is not a maneuver of such a huge ship against aviation. And the main caliber of Marat was moved to the floating base, this is the same doomed target against aviation. However, the ship in besieged Leningrad was like a soldier - before dying, destroy as many Germans as possible! And the doomed Marat destroyed hundreds of Germans and more than one German battery. For what honor to the ship and glory to its crew ...

      For a minute, the air defense of these battleships consisted of a dozen or two machine guns, so in the base it was even more or less covered
  6. +9
    22 September 2021 07: 40
    The battleship "Marat" in the Spithead roadstead. England, 1937.
  7. +1
    22 September 2021 08: 19
    There was simply no ship after the second tower.


    After the first tower - see photo
    1. +6
      22 September 2021 16: 26
      if structurally correct - "to the second tower"
  8. +9
    22 September 2021 08: 23
    They say history does not tolerate the subjunctive mood. But in the Second World War, special air defense ships would have helped us a lot. The experience of using the floating battery "Don't touch me" confirms this.
    https://topwar.ru/30270-plavuchie-batarei-ne-tron-menya-i-marat.html
    1. +2
      22 September 2021 10: 25
      Quote: riwas
      Special air defense ships would help us a lot

      The air defense cruiser "Niobe" somehow did not help the Germans ...
    2. +6
      22 September 2021 11: 37
      Quote: riwas
      They say history does not tolerate the subjunctive mood. But in the Second World War, special air defense ships would have helped us a lot. The experience of using the floating battery "Don't touch me" confirms this.

      Taking into account the real state of the naval air defense of the USSR Navy, little would have shone for domestic air defense ships. For 90% of the effectiveness of air defense lies in the fire control system (as the commander of AB Enterprise wrote "without a working SUAO 5 ", the guns are only suitable for firing at horizontal bombers at medium altitudes, and then the VN and GN gunners are constantly trying to accompany different targets")
      Does the USSR have a serial MPUAZO system, synchronous servo drives, automatic tube installers, etc.? In real life, even for EM MPUAZO was desperately lacking.
  9. +4
    22 September 2021 09: 14
    Rudel's work, be it wrong!
    1. +4
      22 September 2021 10: 32
      Quote: tralflot1832
      Rudel's work, be it wrong!

      We must give him his due - marks and courageous. He unhooked his PC1000RS at an altitude of less than half a kilometer in that fatal attack for Marat. Rudel's eggs are made of iron.
      1. +9
        22 September 2021 10: 41
        It seems that he ran away from our territory 7 times. It's a pity that the tanker didn't hit him with the DShK, he only shot him in the leg for his insolence, he is lucky for the strong.
        1. +5
          22 September 2021 10: 55
          I only read his boastful memoir once - and on the shelf)
          But the pilot is outstanding nonetheless.
          1. +11
            22 September 2021 12: 14
            But the pilot is outstanding nonetheless.
            I agree. Many people question the number of destroyed equipment, but even if he lied, he deserved his crosses, what can I say ... In June 1972, the newspaper "Fighter" ("Jagerblatt"), the official organ of the society of German fighter pilots, wrote : “Rudel's 2530 sorties give him, perhaps, the right to take first place among the best pilots of all time. The highest German award for bravery in World War II appreciated this unique achievement. "
            During the war, the Soviet command also "appreciated" Rudel at its true worth, announcing that it would pay a bonus of 10 thousand rubles to anyone who destroys him or takes him prisoner.
            In terms of the number of sorties and their effectiveness, no other pilot could even come close to Rudel. During World War II, he flew 2 sorties. He destroyed 2530 tanks, over 519 vehicles of various types, 800 armored trains, 4 positions of artillery batteries, many bridges. Sank the battleship Marat, the leader of the destroyers Minsk (Some sources erroneously indicate that he sank the cruiser. This error is due to the fact that the Germans attributed the leaders of the Minsk-class destroyers to the class of light cruisers) 150 different landing craft. Shot down 70 Soviet aircraft, incl. 9 fighters and 7 Il-2.
            The plane of Rudel himself was hit over 30 times, incl. several times over enemy territory, while Rudel was wounded five times. Interestingly, his "Stuck" in all cases was hit by anti-aircraft fire and never by fighters. Six times Rudel himself landed behind the front line to take out the crews of downed Ju-87s.
        2. +9
          22 September 2021 11: 05
          There were no DShK machine guns on the turrets of tanks in 1941, moreover, the hit of such a bullet (12,7 mm) guaranteed to ensure limb separation and a monstrous pain shock, in such a state, not only is it possible to fly an airplane, but it is simply impossible to adequately assess the environment. ...
          1. +5
            22 September 2021 11: 37
            Rudel had it, in his memoirs. At the beginning, like 1945 or at the end of 1944, he received a bullet and part of his leg was amputated. In general, he flew around IS 3. lol
            1. +4
              22 September 2021 11: 56
              At the end of the 44th DShK were already standing on the towers, not on all machines, of course. But somehow it is doubtful about the survivor after being hit by a bullet from a "fifty dollar", although miracles in life happen, we believe Rudel. smile
              1. +5
                22 September 2021 12: 00
                I’m looking for everything from German memoirs. Like the IL 2 from all the barrels in the forehead, the ME 262 was filled up and it seemed like not even one, the brake lever on the ME 262, it seemed, was not there.
                1. +1
                  22 September 2021 12: 03
                  Alas, I don't know. I hear from you for the first time, aviation is a tricky and little-known science for me. request
                  1. +3
                    22 September 2021 12: 30
                    I have about 6 volumes of such memoirs. I read such an episode from one German. I should probably review it and go to VO.
                    1. +4
                      22 September 2021 12: 36
                      Brothers Grimm fairy tales? smile drinks
                      1. +1
                        22 September 2021 12: 51
                        It is for sure that Lorelei should cry that their "bad" Russians and Americans at the end of the war were shot down on takeoffs and landings. drinks
                    2. +3
                      22 September 2021 19: 02
                      Otto Carius' tales "Tigers in the Mud" can also be included there. Although the reading is entertaining. ...
                2. +4
                  22 September 2021 15: 04
                  Quote: tralflot1832
                  IL 2 from all barrels in the forehead, ME 262 was filled up and it seems not even one

                  As far as I know, Talgat Begeldinov on his IL-2 shot down an ME Bf 109 in the frontal, in 1943.
              2. +3
                22 September 2021 12: 29
                On warspot there is an analysis of his "merits" and wounds. Perhaps he was shot in the foot from a postoperative anti-aircraft DShK.
                And in his memoirs, he generally claims about two holes from the "40mm anti-aircraft gun", which his "Stuck" "withstood".
                1. +5
                  22 September 2021 12: 34
                  Can you imagine what will happen to the foot if this bullet hits it?

                  Yes, it will simply be torn off along with the leg. There are no simple wounds from 12,7 mm bullets, only fatal ones.
                  1. +3
                    22 September 2021 12: 38
                    Fortunately, they didn't hit me ...
                    Possibly tangential. The foot was amputated. Or a splinter from a 37mm anti-aircraft gun ...
                    1. +6
                      22 September 2021 12: 40
                      And these are already the problems of Genosse Rudel. request
                      Yes, they didn’t hit me either, otherwise they wouldn’t be talking now, I served with the DShKM and I know quite well what the bullet from this machine does to the target.
                      1. +5
                        22 September 2021 12: 42
                        They write that he was wounded several times, but there are no details ...
                        And they knocked him down 32 times ...
                        But, as Mukhin wrote - "nirazu, a bullet or a splinter did not hit Rudel's blunt head." Fate...
                      2. +8
                        22 September 2021 12: 44
                        Come on, he was not that stupid, you won’t go far on one luck, remember that A.V. Suvorov spoke about this.
                      3. +1
                        22 September 2021 12: 49
                        Perhaps "heaven" at birth measured "luck" for three, and physical strength came from his ancestors. He did not drink, did not smoke, rocked. And did not fly on other types of aircraft. Only on Ju-87.
                        And his "cleverness" was that he flew low. He was shooting "seemingly at tanks," but the Red Army had big problems with small-caliber air defense.
                      4. +5
                        22 September 2021 13: 19
                        and the Red Army had big problems with small-caliber air defense.

                        Do not tell me, but if there was, then at the beginning of the war.

                        And then Lend-Lease "arrived".
                      5. +5
                        22 September 2021 14: 40
                        Eh. How many of that "lisa" arrived ... And how many crossings, railway stations and other objects ...
                      6. 0
                        22 September 2021 14: 48
                        Enough has come. Too lazy to climb looking for numbers - all this is in the public domain. But you just look at the chronicle of the 45 Victory Parade, at least at the cars.
                      7. +5
                        22 September 2021 19: 29
                        1100 ZSU for the entire Eastern Front. And only since 1944.
                        And until 1944, the "four Maxims" were joy ...
                      8. +1
                        22 September 2021 19: 55
                        1100 ZSU for the entire Eastern Front.

                        So they were not installed at every corner, especially mobile installations on the M2 chassis with excellent maneuverability and mobility. In addition, the priority was the cargo, which ours ordered in the first place, and the Yankees did not care what they were carrying, they could have filled up these installations in XNUMX, but it began to be that our General Staff did not really need them.
                      9. +3
                        22 September 2021 21: 57
                        I doubt the ability of the American industry in 1942 to "fill up" our air defense units with new SPAAGs. The production of which has just been launched on stream.
                        Let's not forget the British!
                        And our "strategists" should have not stockpiled the PV-1 and DA / DA-2 machine guns removed from decommissioned aircraft before the war, but put them into production of ROM! At least to protect their own airfields! After all, the Germans loved so much to shoot aircraft parking from low-level flight ...
                        And most of the Soviet military airfields were not even defended by anti-aircraft machine guns.
                      10. +1
                        23 September 2021 12: 42
                        I doubt the ability of the American industry in 1942 to "fill up" our air defense units with new SPAAGs.

                        There is no reason to doubt that they were able to "overwhelm" their fleet with ships of all classes, and the production of escort aircraft carriers was generally put "on stream", and not only their own fleet. And such a "trifle" as a machine with machine guns did not constitute labor for their industry.
                      11. +1
                        23 September 2021 14: 01
                        Dug here a little
                        In 1942, the two-gun M-13 and M-14 were produced on the basis of the M-2 and M-5, respectively. M-14 - 1600 pieces went to the British. And they converted them back into an armored personnel carrier.
                        The Americans had 1103 M-13s.
                        But the four-barreled M-16MGMC and M-17 (based on the M-5) began to be produced in May and December 1943! M-17 - December 1943!
                        There was no earlier. And apparently the Yankees did not give M-16 ...
                        M-16 - 2 pieces for the British and 70 for the "Free French"!
                      12. +1
                        23 September 2021 14: 08
                        As someone wrote: before the war, the Germans, British, French and Russians already had tanks of various types in service, serious theories of using tanks in battle were also developed - the Americans had NOTHING except money, but this was enough for them. ... Exactly! (it seems to be from A. Sick)
                      13. +1
                        23 September 2021 14: 12
                        Money just wouldn’t help them. With money, they had a very good heavy industry, shipbuilding and so on. Plus - a large mass of people in need of work and having some knowledge and education!
                        And by the beginning of the war, they still worked out the tanks and put them into series. At least light. Lightweight M-3s were useful to everyone.
                      14. 0
                        23 September 2021 14: 25
                        The M-3 is a good tank, but it is impossible to drive out on it alone. Moreover, they had neither Svechin with Trandafilov, nor Liddell Hart and De Gaulle, let alone Guderian.
                      15. 0
                        23 September 2021 15: 55
                        But before Guderian, the Germans had other people. Those who began to develop the topic of armored vehicles and their use back in the Weimar Republic.
                        Guderian is not the first ...
                      16. 0
                        23 September 2021 16: 30
                        There were people, of course, but it was the TANK troops that Guderian made. Because the presence of tanks in itself does not yet declare the creation of tank troops.
                      17. +1
                        23 September 2021 14: 16
                        The entire series of M-17 in 1000 pieces was sent to the USSR.
                      18. 0
                        23 September 2021 14: 21
                        Yes, "only for Russians"!
                        There was also such an option.
                      19. +1
                        23 September 2021 14: 31
                        M-15A1. From October to February 1944, 1652 vehicles were produced. 100 were delivered to the USSR. The rest were kept for themselves!
                      20. +1
                        23 September 2021 20: 35

                        The original version is called T28E1.
                      21. +2
                        24 September 2021 00: 23
                        Interestingly, do you have any photos and data of any other developments based on the M3?
                      22. +1
                        24 September 2021 08: 24
                        This is not mine. This is in the "tyrnet". I saw a photo with a mortar. With a howitzer and naturally the SU-57 with a 57 mm gun (American copy of the British 6-pounder).
                      23. +2
                        24 September 2021 08: 32
                        Did you mean this? Self-propelled mortar M4 (81 mm).

                        How do you like this? I have never seen such a thing.
                      24. +1
                        24 September 2021 09: 20
                        Is it our front-line left-handers already? Or were the experiments carried out on a "strictly scientific" idea?
                      25. +1
                        24 September 2021 09: 27
                        What surprised me was the American army marking on the "Three-ruble", that's interesting. request
                      26. +1
                        24 September 2021 09: 37
                        Or maybe this is M2 from the first batch?
                        They gave it to the GAU for experiment ...
                        It is necessary to "dig", but it is also necessary to work ...
                      27. +2
                        24 September 2021 09: 39
                        Maybe M2, but the marking is still state-of-the-art.
                      28. +1
                        24 September 2021 09: 51
                        Where did the photo come from?
                      29. +2
                        24 September 2021 10: 38
                        I typed M3 and a bunch of photos fell out, including this one.
                      30. +1
                        24 September 2021 10: 28
                        They write that this is an inept photoshop. Because of the uncleaned American markings !!!
                      31. +2
                        24 September 2021 10: 37
                        Sounds like the truth. laughing
                      32. +1
                        24 September 2021 10: 53
                        And there were 3 types of self-propelled mortars - M4, M4A1 and M21. The difference is in the chassis and interior layout.
                      33. +2
                        24 September 2021 11: 06

                        М4А1

                        M21
                        As the Americans called these cars - half-track.
                      34. +8
                        22 September 2021 13: 21
                        Quote: hohol95
                        And did not fly on other types of aircraft. Only on Ju-87.

                        In his memoirs, he wrote that he flew another FW190.
                      35. +3
                        22 September 2021 13: 14
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        Come on, he was not that stupid, you won’t go far on one luck, remember that A.V. Suvorov spoke about this.

                        Commander of the happy thing?
                        )
                      36. +2
                        22 September 2021 13: 27
                        "Fly ducks and chatyre goose ..." (c) laughing
                        No matter how much he flew, but in the end he flew.
                        Our lodger has disappeared, - the retired janitor Nikita Pryakhin said happily, drying his boots over a primus stove. - Lost, dear. Don't fly, don't fly! A person should walk, not fly. Must walk, walk.
                        And he turned his felt boot over the moaning fire.
                        - Flew, yellow-eyed, - muttered the grandmother, whose name and surname no one knew. She lived in the mezzanine above the kitchen, and although the whole apartment was lit with electricity, my grandmother burned a kerosene lamp with a reflector upstairs. She didn't trust electricity. - So the room is vacant, the square!
                      37. +3
                        22 September 2021 13: 13
                        Quote: hohol95
                        But, as Mukhin wrote - "nirazu, a bullet or a splinter did not hit Rudel's blunt head." Fate...

                        To one outstanding figure in modern cinema, the combat work of dive bombers of the Luftwaffe generally seems like this:
                      38. +2
                        22 September 2021 13: 22
                        And this sho for hfilma and about the faq? wassat
                      39. +5
                        22 September 2021 13: 27
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        And this sho for hfilma and about the faq? wassat

                        KA-A-AK ???? !!!!
                        Yes, this is ........

                        I recommend looking at Bad's arrangement right away.
                      40. +2
                        22 September 2021 13: 32
                        If Nikita put and played, then I will not try. negative
            2. +2
              22 September 2021 17: 14
              And in general, he flew around the IS 3.

              Is this also from his memoirs? IS-3s did not participate in WWII, they were only at the final parade in Berlin in 1945.
              1. +1
                22 September 2021 19: 06
                That was sarcasm...
          2. +5
            22 September 2021 11: 56
            Quote: Sea Cat
            There were no DShK machine guns on tank turrets in 1941

            He was wounded on February 8, 1945.
            There was an interesting analysis of the wounding episode on the warspot:

            https://warspot.ru/13416-trinadtsat-tankov-za-odnu-nogu
            1. +3
              22 September 2021 12: 01
              I already understood and answered my colleague Andrey.
      2. +9
        22 September 2021 10: 48
        He later recalled:
        “The dive angle is from 70 to 80 degrees. I already caught the “Marat” in sight. We rush down, right at him, and the ship is slowly growing, turning into a real giant. All his guns are aimed at us. Now nothing matters except our target, our goal ...
        In order not to collide with the commander’s machine, I increase the dive angle, pressing the control handle with all my strength. Now we dive at an angle of 90 degrees, it's like sitting on a barrel of gunpowder ... My "Ju-87" dives surprisingly steadily, without going to the side a centimeter. I feel it’s impossible to miss. Right in front of me I see a huge "Marat". Sailors are running around the deck, apparently they are carrying ammunition. I press the bomb reset button on the control handle and pull it towards me with all my might. Can I turn it down or not? The overload is too big ... for a moment I lose consciousness. Not quite yet recovering, I hear the voice of my rifleman-gunner: “Mr. Ober lieutenant, the ship exploded!” A huge cloud of smoke 350 meters high rises above the Marat. Probably the cellars exploded ... "
        "Stuks" Hauptmann Steen and Chief Lieutenant Rudel, carrying 1000-kg bombs, struck at the "Marat". Despite the powerful anti-aircraft fire - on that day, only the 37-mm and 76-mm guns of the battleship managed to release 1530 shells - they went to the target and went into a dive. At the same time, the planes rushed so close to each other that Rudel almost rammed Steen's car flying in front. Rudel himself, having experienced a couple of unpleasant seconds, then recalled:
        “We are just a few centimeters apart! Meanwhile, the middle of the ship is exactly in the center of my scope. My Ju 87 continues to dive, but the target still remains in the center of the sight. I feel that it is simply impossible to miss. Now I clearly see "Marat" right in front of me. Sailors are running on its deck ... "
        Much more unpleasant sensations in those seconds were experienced by those who were below, on the ship. The senior foreman of the Baltic Shipyard A.M. Gorchanikov, who carried out repair work on the battleship, later said:
        “On September 23, in the morning, the korpusniki went to the bow of the ship, where the electricians were repairing the damaged cable bundle. We mechanics worked at the aft end, in the engine room. The flagship mechanic A. I. Abramov instructed me to determine the nature of the damage and repair the communication pipes leaving the wheelhouse, and our mechanic Barabash - to fix the sump pump. At about 10 o'clock we heard a combat and simultaneously an air alert. According to the combat schedule, the armored hatch above us was immediately battened down. We clearly heard the howl of a dive bomber. "
        1. +8
          22 September 2021 10: 51
          Meanwhile, the German pilots, one by one, pressed the reset buttons, and the bombs rushed down. Hauptmann Steen, who a few moments before had been forced to take the control stick on himself in order to take his Ju-87 up a little and thereby avoid a collision with Rudel's car, no longer had time to accurately aim. The bomb dropped by him fell into the water near the left side of the "Marat". An explosion thundered, and the huge ship, under the influence of the wave that had arisen, began to heel to the starboard side.
          At that moment, the second bomb dropped by Rudel hit the deck of the battleship in front of the fore superstructure with the foremast. Its explosion caused detonation of ammunition in the artillery cellar of the main caliber tower No. 1. The commander of the L-3 submarine, which was stationed at the pier not far from Marat, Lieutenant-Commander P. D. Grishchenko, then recalled:
          “Solid fire engulfed the ship in a few seconds. Following this deafening explosions, one, the second. Huge clouds of smoke and fire enveloped the nose of the battleship, again two explosions. One can clearly see how a massive metal foremast with all superstructures, bridges, platforms, completely filled with figures in white sailors' robes and blue commander jackets, slowly separates from the battleship and, falling apart, crashes into the water on the fly. The bow of the ship has completely disappeared, and with it the gun turret with three 12-inch guns. ”
          A colorful description of the terrible death of the battleship was also left by counter-admiral Panteleev:
          "I see how a huge foremast with ladders, deckhouses, bridges and platforms, all dotted with figures in white sailor uniforms, slowly separates from the ship, does not fall to the side very quickly, and then splits into parts and crashes into the water with a crash."
          1. +7
            22 September 2021 10: 53
            Meanwhile Ju-87 safely emerged from the dive just above the water and rushed away. After the war, Rudel wrote in his autobiographical book My Life in War and in Peacetime:
            “Hauptmann Steen told us during the briefing that when a 1000 kg bomb explodes, the radius of its fragments is about 1000 meters, but I don’t think about it now! I pull the control stick forward with all my strength. The overload is too big, my eyes darken, and for a moment I lose consciousness. Still not quite recovering, I hear the voice of my radio operator-gunner Feldwebel Scharnovski in my headphones: "Herr Lieutenant, the ship exploded!"
            We are flying three to four meters above the water. I take a slight turn and look back. An explosion cloud rises above the Marat to a height of about 400 meters, apparently, it was a cellar with ammunition that exploded ... "
            Already at the departure, Rudel's plane, which continued to fly at extremely low altitude, tried to intercept three I-16 fighters. However, two of them were quickly knocked out by their own anti-aircraft artillery. Apparently, the anti-aircraft gunners were aiming at the Stuka, but the shells exploded far behind her. The third was able to get into the tail of the Stuka, and its pilot even opened fire. However, the gunner Feldwebel Scharnovski did not fire back, as he noticed that a Bf-109F from the JG54 Grünhertz had appeared behind him. A short burst, and the last fighter fell into the water. The downed I-16s were probably from the 13th separate fighter squadron of the KBF Air Force, in which two pilots were killed and another was wounded that day.
            1. +7
              22 September 2021 11: 10
              Actually, there was a very interesting continuation - when he returned from the attack, Steen did not calm down, but ordered again to hang the PC1000RS to his piece, but on takeoff he stumbled and copied. The reins, which fell under the tail of the Hauptmann, did their job - Steen took the car from Rudel and took his group to the Kirov. But at an altitude of 2 km, his piece was hit by a direct hit in the tail, and the restless Hauptman fell into the water not far from the Kirov.
              Of course, a legend was immediately born that, they say, "until the last moment I tried to ram ....", but this, I suppose, is nothing more than a heroic tale.
              1. +7
                22 September 2021 12: 04
                Greetings to Thiel Ulenspiegel, in whose heart the ashes of Claes are beating, demanding retribution!
                but this, I suppose, is nothing more than a heroic tale.
                You know, I think so too, although the devil only knows what he was thinking about in the last minutes - whether he rammed or not, but the opponents are serious, I must give them their due. You may ask why in your comments it was PC1000RS? were put into service in 42, if I am not mistaken .. Armor-piercing aerial bomb with PC 1000RS "Pol" rocket accelerator (PC - Panzerbombe Cylindrich; thick-walled, armor-piercing, cylindrical) was adopted in 1942 by the Luftwaffe to replace conventional armor-piercing bombs, which, when dropped from a height of 1 km, as a rule, they did not pierce the deck armor of heavy ships with a thickness of 180-200 mm. To solve this problem, the rocket booster increases the speed of the bomb by 160 m / s (PC 1000RS "Pol" had a speed of about 320 m / s at the time of defeat).

                PC 1000RS "Pol" length - 2200 mm, diameter - 395 mm, total weight - 625 kg. The armor-piercing warhead (warhead) had a case of hardened steel casting, which was closed with a massive steel cover. The warhead contained an explosive charge weighing 65 kg.
                The best known are three models of "rocket" bombs, equipped with boosters and adopted for service at the end of development in 1942: PC 500RS "Pauline", PC 1000RS "Pol" and PC 1800RS "Panther" with calibers of 500,1000 and 1800 kg, respectively. In terms of their design, all three types were almost identical. The use of these aerial bombs in the Mediterranean Sea made it possible to achieve good results.
                1. +5
                  22 September 2021 12: 29
                  I agree, RS are superfluous in the bomb model. An ordinary one without a rocket booster was thrown at Marat.
          2. +3
            22 September 2021 20: 28
            Quote: Crowe
            Lieutenant-Commander P. D. Grishchenko then recalled:
            "...... foremast with all superstructures, bridges, platforms, completely filled with figures in white sailor uniforms and blue commander's tunics, slowly separates from the battleship and, falling apart on the fly, falls into the water with a crash.

            Quote: Crowe
            Rear Admiral Panteleev:
            ".....foremast with ladders, cabinets, bridges and platforms, all dotted with figures in white sailor uniforms, slowly separates from the ship, does not fall to the side very quickly, and then splits into parts and crashes into the water with a crash».

            Who cheated from whom? recourse request
      3. +1
        22 September 2021 10: 51
        "The Man with the Iron Eggs".
        1. +2
          22 September 2021 11: 15
          Quote: Sea Cat
          "The Man with the Iron Eggs"

          too propaganda, Konstantin) Postcard for the Hitler Youth straight ...
          Anything atmospheric .... let's say ....
          1. 0
            22 September 2021 12: 00
            Yes, the photo is very expressive, in the sense: "And my Iron Eggs helped me to achieve this victory" and, for greater reliability, indicated with his hand which eggs he had in mind. laughing
            1. +1
              22 September 2021 12: 06
              Quote: Sea Cat
              and for the sake of reliability he indicated with his hand which eggs he had in mind

              exactly!
              ))
            2. 0
              22 September 2021 12: 35
              Military Order of the "German Cross" - "Scrambled Eggs"! Rudel had one! That was the "omelet".
              1. -3
                22 September 2021 12: 39
                I was always surprised at the stupid design of this award, usually they are made by the Germans with taste and at the highest level.
                And here...
                1. -1
                  22 September 2021 12: 40
                  And then the "muddy fisheye" ...
                2. 0
                  22 September 2021 14: 42
                  Quote: Sea Cat
                  Always amazed at the dumb design of this award

                  laconic)
                  1. -2
                    22 September 2021 14: 54
                    Yeah, the NADSAP icon was inscribed in an 8-ray star - and a point, simple and straightforward. laughing
          2. +3
            22 September 2021 20: 12
            Quote: Ashes of Klaas
            Anything atmospheric .... let's say ...

            Colonel Hans-Urlich Rudel leaves his Ju-87G-2, surrounded by American pilots.)))
        2. The comment was deleted.
      4. +1
        23 September 2021 13: 44
        We must give him his due - marks and courageous. He unhooked his PC1000RS at an altitude of less than half a kilometer in that fatal attack for Marat. Rudel's eggs are made of iron.

        What are you fixated on this strudel? Several planes dived and dropped bombs. There is no reliable evidence that the strudel was hit.
  10. -5
    22 September 2021 10: 08
    Soviet battleship of the Baltic Fleet "Marat"

    not Soviet, but Russian battleship "Petropavlovsk" was the strike core of the Baltic Fleet and its symbol, for it was designed and built by Russian engineers and workers before the VOR.
    After the VOR, they could not create anything like this, despite the attempts.

    Four large-caliber railway batteries, manned by sailors

    the most powerful of them is the 11th, equipped with Russian 356-mm guns for the pre-VOR-built battleship Izmail.
    1. +3
      22 September 2021 10: 38
      In general, it seems silly to me to name the ship after the man who died in the bath ...
      1. Cat
        +2
        22 September 2021 10: 43
        the name of the man who died in the bath

        ..from the hand of a woman.
    2. +6
      22 September 2021 11: 46
      Quote: Olgovich
      the most powerful of them is the 11th, equipped with Russian 356-mm guns for the pre-VOR-built battleship Izmail.

      British 356-mm guns for the Ismail aircraft. For the OSZ before the revolution could not produce a single 14 "gun and, according to some reports, partially completed the barrels only in the 30s, after the manufacture of six TM-1-14.
      During the construction of the TM-1-14, only Vickers barrels from a batch of 10 units delivered to VOR were available.
      1. -1
        22 September 2021 12: 32
        Quote: Alexey RA
        British 356-mm guns for the IS "Izmail"

        Obukhov development. Produced by the Obukhovsky plant and the British company Vickers (a shareholder of RAOAZ), which produced the first batch of guns. In total, the fleet received 11 guns: 10 from Great Britain and one from the Obukhov plant.

        Ten were almost ready (only the overlapping breech rings and breechblocks were missing). Seven bodies of 356-mm / 52 guns unfinished by the Obukhov plant may have been completed in the 1930s, in addition, the Stalingrad plant "Barricades" (as the RAOAZ artillery plant has now become called) from the late 1930s. I was also engaged in the re-barrel of these guns.
    3. +3
      22 September 2021 12: 14
      Why did you write this? For you, the history of the Motherland before and after 1917 is the history of different states?
      1. 0
        22 September 2021 20: 53
        The homeland is one, but the states are different, you will not compare what is now with what was before the ninetieth year.
    4. +3
      22 September 2021 12: 22
      Andrei hi , at the described time, he was still "Marat", regrettably. And "Petropavlovsk" at the same time was called a completely different ship and he also took part in the defense of Leningrad.


      Andrey, I am not boring, but for the sake of justice, otherwise, according to your logic, it turns out that "Petropavlovsk" should be called by its first name - "Lyuttsov", and Leningrad - Petersburg. But this is not so. smile
      "The past cannot be turned back, and there is nothing to grieve about,
      each era has its own forests growing up ...
      But all the same, it's a pity that it is impossible with Alexander Sergeich
      to dine at "Yar" drop in at least a quarter of an hour. "(c)
      1. -1
        22 September 2021 12: 51
        Quote: Sea Cat
        Andrei, at the time described, he was still “Marat”, sadly.

        Constantine hi , at the described time, it was just that his original was returned to him, native name "Petropavlovsk" and it happened in the Second World War, on May 31, 1943
        Quote: Sea Cat
        o and "Petropavlovsk" should be called by the first name - "Lyuttsov",

        Luttsov, he was in a completely different country - Germany and the change of name is logical, but with "Petropavlovsk" it is a completely different story, which was proved by the return of his native name - they admitted a mistake.
        The same with St. Petersburg, the name is returned. And my fellow officers, native Leningraders, taught me to call Leningrad Peter back in the time of conscience.
        Quote: Sea Cat
        Still, it's a pity that must not with Alexander Sergeich
        to dine in "Yar" drop in at least a quarter of an hour.


        Why not? I dropped into my Big Noble St. Petersburg, to the house where my family lived, and there little has changed over the past centuries ...
        1. +1
          22 September 2021 13: 40
          ... he, just, was returned to his original, native name "Petropavlovsk" and it happened in the Second World War, on May 31, 1943

          I didn’t know about it, thanks for the enlightenment.
          By the way, we in Moscow and in those days called your city Peter, and my mother is also from St. Petersburg, she was born in Duderhof under the "tsarist regime."
          And what about ex "Lyuttsov", it seems like they did not begin to restore it after the war?
          1. +2
            22 September 2021 14: 52
            Quote: Sea Cat
            And what about ex "Lyuttsov", it seems like they did not begin to restore it after the war?

            Exactly restore did not become another Lutzov, who was first Deutschland, which the Allies choked off with bombs in Swinemünde, which the crew flooded, which a year later ours raised and included in the lists of the USSR Navy. And a year later, we decided that we would not restore it, and flooded it in the center of the Baltic.
            1. +2
              22 September 2021 15: 08
              I know about this Lutzov, his corps was sunk during exercises already in 1947. Another Lutzov existed longer, underwent several more renaming and was cut with "needles" in 59-60 years.
          2. -5
            22 September 2021 16: 45
            so you are somewhere under 100. Well, for your age, briskly knock on the keys.
            1. +2
              22 September 2021 16: 51
              What are you talking about? I didn’t seem to ask you to comment on my knocking on the keys, and I don’t have any business with you.
              By the way, everything is clear with you, I mean age, illiteracy is above any criticism.
          3. +3
            22 September 2021 20: 36
            Quote: Sea Cat
            By the way, we in Moscow and in those days called your city Peter, and my mother is also from St. Petersburg, she was born in Duderhof under the "tsarist regime."

            Neighboring Samara during the years of Soviet power was called Kuibyshev, but among the people everyone called it Samara, but now, when the city was returned to its historical name, the people no, no, yes it will slip: I went to Kuibyshev. So understand who needs what.
        2. +5
          22 September 2021 21: 31
          in the described time, it was just that his original, native name "Petropavlovsk" was returned to him

          My grandfather, Nikolai Alekseevich Morozov, a foreman of the second class, went through the entire Finnish and Great Patriotic War on the Marat. And never once in my memory did he call his battleship "Petropavlovsk". Only "Marat" - I have not heard any other name from him.
          So there is no need to be categorical in the opinion of which name is truly native for the ship. After all, the ship itself is just a complex mechanism. The team made him legendary. And at least one of its members would definitely disagree with you.
          1. -4
            23 September 2021 10: 42
            Quote: Bogalex
            My grandfather, Nikolai Alekseevich Morozov, a foreman of the second class, went through the entire Finnish and Great Patriotic War on the Marat. And never once in my memory did he call his battleship "Petropavlovsk". Only "Marat" - I have not heard any other name from him.
            So there is no need to be categorical in the opinion of which name is truly native for the ship.

            someone's opinion does not change the essence. And the bottom line is that it was Russian battleship "Petropavlovsk""- with a name that is understandable and close to a Russian person.
            That was recognized by the conscientious authorities themselves.

            And no one knew who the crazy Frenchman Marat was
            1. 0
              23 September 2021 12: 56
              And no one knew who the crazy Frenchman Marat was

              Perhaps you do not know who Marat is, which is why you think he is crazy.
              But in the Soviet Union, absolutely everyone knew about this historical person.
              1. -4
                23 September 2021 13: 19
                Quote: Bogalex
                Perhaps you do not know who Marat is, which is why you think he is crazy.

                any normal person considers him as such:
                the publisher "Friend of the People" contributed a lot to the spread among the people, especially in Paris, of extreme revolutionary fanaticism, he began to talk about the need to renew society sacrificing hundreds and thousands of heads of traitors fool

                An ardent defender of the Monarchy then changed into ... an equally ardent Republican.

                And WHAT is there to know?
                1. +2
                  23 September 2021 13: 33
                  Fu, what a shameful technique in dialogue ... Really disgusting, used only by extremely narcissistic people who cannot tolerate any other point of view, except their own, people:
                  any normal person considers him as such

                  That is, everyone who disagrees with you is not normal?
                  Absolutely no desire for further communication. All the best.
                  1. -3
                    23 September 2021 14: 16
                    Quote: Bogalex
                    Ugh, what a shameful trick in dialogue ... Really disgusting, used only by the extremely narcissistic, who cannot tolerate any other points of view, except for their own, by people:
                    any normal person considers him as such

                    ugh, what a shameful trick: this is MY point of view,
                    that any normal person considers him as such
                    .I have the right.
                    Quote: Bogalex
                    Absolutely no desire for further communication. All the best.

                    they made it up themselves, they themselves were offended ..
                    good luck!
                    1. -1
                      23 September 2021 21: 57
                      Absolutely.
                      You have the right to consider it as such, like the rest of the nikolashka with a rag.
                      Everything is correct to each his own ..
  11. +4
    22 September 2021 10: 28
    Here is how one of the eyewitnesses described the death of a warship:

    “I clearly see


    Actually, one could imagine this "one of the eyewitnesses" - this is the famous Grishchenko, the commander of L-3.
  12. +7
    22 September 2021 10: 32
    Before the war, the ship made sea voyages to Finland, Sweden, Norway, England and the Baltic republics.


    On August 3-8, 1934 "Marat" also visited the Polish Gdynia.




    interestingly, in the middle photo he was labeled as a cruiser [sic!]


  13. -2
    22 September 2021 10: 41
    And about Hans Ulrich Rudel not a single mention.
    1. +6
      22 September 2021 10: 58
      Quote: A. h.52
      And about Hans Ulrich Rudel not a single mention.

      You read inattentively:
      One of the German aces who attacked the Marat was Hans-Ulrich Rudel.
      (from text)
      1. +2
        22 September 2021 11: 36
        Spsb. I read it diagonally.
        1. +7
          22 September 2021 11: 46
          Quote: A. h.52
          Spsb. I read it diagonally.

          The volume of the article did not allow Samsonov to stick in the details of the famous attack, but it was done by the cameraman aka Crowe... ))
  14. +8
    22 September 2021 11: 28
    Is this, if I'm not mistaken, the famous Smirnov camouflage (disguise as a granite embankment)?


    At least one of his works - kr. October Revolution - before and after disguise:

    1. +7
      22 September 2021 13: 01
      Quote: Ashes of Klaas
      At least one of his works - cr. October Revolution - before and after disguise:

      Why battleship "October Revolution" offended? wink

      KR "October Revolution" is already a post-war heir, KRL pr. 68-bis, the former "Molotovsk".
      1. +3
        22 September 2021 13: 18
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Why was the battleship "October Revolution" offended?

        Alas for me, alas !!
        Thank you hi
  15. +10
    22 September 2021 12: 11
    By the way, "Marat" could never have survived to WWII. On August 7, 1933, during firing practice, the crew of the 2nd BSh GK grossly violated the instructions for action in the event of a protracted shot, prematurely opening the gun lock. After that, the charge in the breech suddenly ignited, and the force of fire went into the tower and cellars, setting fire to other charges. The ship was saved only by the timely flooding of the turret compartment and the artillery cellar.
    The most likely reason for the tower's breach of instructions was elucidated during the investigation. Most likely, the point was that skipping a few shots could cost a place in the socialist competition of the towers. In the testimony of the crew, especially the specialists, it was constantly encountered that knowledge of technology was replaced by enthusiasm and unhealthy assault.
    The cost of deviating from the instructions was 68 lives.
    First: of the 68 dead, only 5 were professional military sailors (1 commander, 3 "super-conscripts" and 1 cadet of the naval school), and the remaining 63 were conscripts, and 34 of them (exactly half of all the dead) served only " for the first year "(it should be borne in mind that in the fleet only the actual ship service was traditionally taken into account, without taking into account the preliminary 8-month (at that time) study in the Training Detachment of the Fleet, that is, the year of call-up to the fleet should be considered the previous year to the one specified in the document ). In general, as sad as it is, half of the dead are "salagi" ...
    Second: of the 68 dead, only 24 died in the 2nd tower of the main caliber when fire was ejected from a prematurely open bolt, while the rest 44 people died in the forcibly (by order from the ship's command bridge) flooded sub-turret compartment, artillery cellar and other under-deck rooms of the ship ... No matter how tragic the death of these 44 drowned people was, but if the order to flood and the subsequent explosion of the cellar was not given, the number of victims would have been many tens of times higher.
    © K.B. Strelbitsky
    1. 0
      22 September 2021 12: 44
      Quote: Alexey RA
      Most likely, the point was that skipping a few shots could cost a place in the socialist competition of the towers.

      Eh, how much were deprived of the sailors of the Royal Navy ... They did not arrange a capitalist competition of towers in honor of, say, the 350th anniversary of the Gunpowder Plot.
      Weaklings ...
      laughing
      1. +10
        22 September 2021 13: 25
        A similar incident happened on Iowa in 1989, 47 people died.
        1. +7
          22 September 2021 13: 45
          Quote: mr.ZinGer
          A similar incident happened on Iowa in 1989, 47 people died.

          The Yankees have had this before.
          USS "Mississippi" (BB-41)
          During the artillery practice on June 12, 1924, as a result of an explosion in the tower of the Main Committee No. 2, 3 officers and 45 sailors and foremen were killed, and another 9 people were injured. About 4 hours after the tragedy, 10 more people were injured during the emergency unloading of the left gun of the same tower. The explosion occurred after the 7th volley. After the shot, the guns returned to the loading position, the bolts opened. A shell was sent to the left barrel, followed by 4 charges in caps, after which the rammer moved back to its original position. Suddenly, unexpectedly, a small cloud of grayish smoke and flame appeared at the shutter, and then a powerful explosion followed. Smoke and fire filled the entire fighting compartment of the tower, as a result of which 48 people were suffocated.
          © S. Suliga. Battleships of the New Mexico type.
      2. +6
        22 September 2021 13: 58
        Quote: Ashes of Klaas
        Eh, how much were deprived of the sailors of the Royal Navy ... They did not arrange a capitalist competition of towers in honor of, say, the 350th anniversary of the Gunpowder Plot.
        Weaklings ...

        It seems to me that the competition between the towers they still had. Well, officers could not miss such an incentive in the training of personnel. smile

        Their cousins ​​from across the ocean definitely had a caps competition.
        Pre-war photographs of battleships sometimes show the shaded E ("Efficiency") on the turrets of the main caliber. These are insignia received for particularly effective shooting. Most of these awards were earned from SRBP (Short Range Battle Practice) shooting.

        Moreover, the competition in the calculations of the towers in the rate of fire of the main battery during the Short Range Battle Practice led to the fact that it was necessary to change the shooting method for this training task, limiting the rate of fire by order:
        It should be noted that the results were truly outstanding - so much so that in 1938 the command of naval operations was forced to issue a special order strictly forbidding volleys with an interval of less than 24 seconds (this is for heavy 356-406-mm guns !!!), because there were fears that with even more frequent firing, which is often achieved by some ships, the barrel blowing system after the shot does not have time to cope with the blowing of the burning remnants of the previous charge from the barrel, which can lead to an explosion in the turrets during the next loading cycle. As a result, the now "super-fast" shooting became punishable and severely penalized by deducting penalty points when assessing the results of shooting.
        © Battleships of the United States of America. Part II. Battleships of the types "New York", "Oklahoma" and "Pennsylvania".
  16. +2
    22 September 2021 14: 36
    Quote: north 2
    Because a ship in motion is a worse target for enemy aircraft and artillery than an actually stationary target at the berth

    The actions of the Luftwaffe in the Black Sea showed that the difference was small.
  17. 0
    22 September 2021 18: 23
    Everyone constantly writes: it's a pity they didn't save the ship. And what was there to save? A stump on the 2nd tower? Well, you need to know when to stop.
  18. +1
    22 September 2021 18: 59
    And my grandfather on Marat served a term before the war.
    It's a pity I was small, I remembered little of the stories.
  19. BAI
    +3
    22 September 2021 21: 54
    Red battleships "Andrey Pervozvanny" and "Petropavlovsk"

    Andrew the First-Called was never a battleship. This is an armadillo.
    1. 0
      23 September 2021 16: 22
      Quote: BAI
      Andrew the First-Called was never a battleship. This is an armadillo.

      Here it is necessary to clearly distinguish between the actual state of affairs and the formal classification.
      In fact, "Andreichi", "Evstafii" and other EBR survivors of WWII were battleships.
      Formally, after the transition of the RIF to the classification of 1907, the class of battleships was replaced by the class of battleships. And the former EBRs formally became LKs, without changing the performance characteristics one iota. smile
      At first, the Ishmaels, too, were listed as armored cruisers.
  20. +3
    23 September 2021 14: 10
    my grandmother's brother died on Marat. everlasting memory.
  21. 0
    23 September 2021 15: 57
    It is extremely regrettable that at least one of the battleships of the "Sevastopol" class was not left as a museum! Without a doubt, this is a heroic story, as the majestic ships themselves were worthy of it !!!
  22. 0
    23 September 2021 17: 36
    Here is how one of the eyewitnesses described the death of a warship:

    The ship was not lost. He beat heavily damaged, fought until the end of the war and could beat fully restored if necessary.
  23. -1
    23 September 2021 17: 41
    Quote: Tavrik
    Quote: north 2
    Because a ship in motion is a worse target for enemy aircraft and artillery than an actually stationary target at the berth

    The actions of the Luftwaffe in the Black Sea showed that the difference was small.

    On the Black Sea, only one ship was sunk - an old cruiser.
    Not a single other Soviet ship was sunk by the Germans during the entire war.
  24. +1
    26 September 2021 10: 03
    In February 2021, the last Maratovo resident Nikolai Vladimirovich Chirkov passed away. He served on the battleship from 1940 to 1947.
    He served a 37-mm machine gun on the bow superstructure and was wounded on September 16, 1941, when several shells and bombs hit the battleship. He was evacuated to the hospital, which saved his life in the explosion of the battleship on September 23. He later returned to the battleship and served on it throughout the war.
    September 16, 2021 Nikolai Vladimirovich would have turned 100 years old ...
  25. Eug
    0
    28 September 2021 13: 13
    "The sailors managed to land the battleship on an even keel"
    I would very much like to know who was in charge of the battle for survivability, for both the commander and the first mate perished. As for me, it was this landing that largely ensured the possibility of further combat use. Heroism and professionalism, so to speak, "in one bottle" ...
  26. 0
    28 September 2021 15: 02
    Endless renaming of ships, apart from extreme surprise, cause nothing. Sailors, is this show off in all the fleets of the world, or is it our special "achievement"?
  27. 0
    28 September 2021 21: 22
    An old battle-scarred battle bear !! Vivat Marat and the crew !!! !
  28. 0
    April 27 2022 15: 38
    Hans-Ulrich Rudel (who later became the most titled member of the Wehrmacht) sank the Soviet battleship Marat during an air raid on the port of Kronstadt, hitting the bow of the ship with a 1000-kilogram bomb.
  29. 0
    8 March 2023 21: 17
    It would be possible to save the "Marat" as a museum ship, like the "Aurora", if it were not for the enemy Khrushchev, on whose orders artillery ships were cut into scrap metal without sentimentality ....

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