In the Chinese media: Everyone talks about Russia's hypersonic weapons, but few remember the appearance of the AK-12 assault rifle among Russian infantrymen

The Chinese press is discussing the renewal of the rifle weapons in the Russian army. The observer of the Sohu information resource is considering the phased rearmament of the Russian Armed Forces from the AK-74 assault rifle to the AK-12 assault rifle. At the same time, the Chinese journalist writes that today, speaking about the Russian army, the issue of hypersonic missiles and the modernization of the nuclear arsenal is most often raised, but at the same time "modernization, which can radically affect the actions of infantry units on the battlefield, is overlooked."

Chinese Sohu:

The AK-12 assault rifle is a full-fledged update of the Kalashnikov assault rifle line. In many of its characteristics and ease of use, it surpasses the AK-74 assault rifle. The assault rifle received a pistol grip, a modular multi-position buttstock, and Picatinny rails.

At the same time, the Chinese author draws attention to the fact that the AK-12 has many options, including chambered for the NATO caliber - 5,56x45 mm. According to the author of the article in the Sohu material, this can provide opportunities not only for the supply of such weapons to those countries where they previously preferred NATO-type weapons, but also for the use of captured ammunition on the battlefield.

The Chinese author notes that the new assault rifle is now being supplied "to both conventional infantry units" and to special forces, which clearly speaks of its versatility and effectiveness. Also, the emphasis is on the fact that such small arms were created and modified taking into account the best combat experience - in the Syrian Arab Republic.

Sohu:

The AK-12 outperforms its predecessor, the AK-74, in a number of parameters, including such important as firing accuracy.

In Chinese media:

Everyone talks about Russia's hypersonic weapons, but few remember that the Russian infantrymen had an AK-12 assault rifle. And this is an important update.

The Chinese press notes that if earlier in relation to machine guns for infantry in Russia (USSR), when they were designed, "sniper" accuracy was, to put it mildly, not in the first place, now "even an ordinary infantryman has a weapon that is not only reliable, but and significantly more accurate than the previous versions. "

Comments

[Yrec]

Overrated. AK-12 is an ordinary Kalashoid with a Picatinny rail. The design and cartridge have not changed, the accuracy is the same.

[sanek45744]

where is your proof !?

[Catfish]

The assault rifle received a pistol grip, a modular multi-position buttstock, and Picatinny rails.

Particularly impressive is the mention of the pistol grip ... is this something new in the Kalashnikov system?

[sanek45744]

and you judge only by this statement !?

[Catfish]

Including. For this speaks of the professionalism of the author of the article and its quality.

[SKVichyakow]

The fact that this is a custom article of the Kalashnikov concern speaks for itself. You cannot praise yourself, no one will. By the way, this is not the first time I notice. The Ministry of Defense did not want to take him, he did not pass from them, but no, they were in advance with someone.

[Civil]

1. The main thing is who uses the machine.

[SKVichyakow]

Minus, you do not agree that the article is "advertising", so look who wrote it at the bottom of the article. Or do you disagree that the Russian Ministry of Defense did not want to take the machine gun even for testing, and not something for armament? So flip through previously written articles on this topic, and the opinions of experts. It is not to me to make claims, I am just stating a fact. Or do you think that there could be no "hurry" in the MO? Then you are naive. Or maybe you are just hats?

[Alex]

And who wrote it? On your advice, I looked - at the bottom there is an inscription: Used photographs of the Kalashnikov concern

[svp67]

Quote: Yrec

AK-12 is an ordinary Kalashoid with a Picatinny rail.

Did you have to hold it in your hands? And disassemble and reassemble?

[Undecim]

Did you have to hold it in your hands? And disassemble and reassemble?

And what are the fundamental differences from AKM? The fact that the pencil case with accessories has moved into the pistol grip?

[polar fox]

Quote: Undecim

And what are the fundamental differences from AKM?

look on the pipe for differences in disassembly ... there the pretzel clearly laid out everything.

[Undecim]

The question is not about the differences in disassembly. The question is in the fundamental differences in the device, which radically affect the characteristics of the weapon.

[sanek45744]

You just write what to write, or what. This option that you have in the photo is not adopted for service

[Undecim]

Well, since you are such a subtle connoisseur, lay out the one that is accepted and indicate the fundamental differences between AKM and AK-12.

[svp67]

Quote: Undecim

fundamental differences between AKM and AK-12.

The vent tube assembly is made differently, the butt is different, the receiver cover is attached differently, the return spring ... Well, this is the main thing

[Slaven]

Well, the barrel is thicker. This is also important.

[sanek45744]

Well, you google it once. Secondly, do you always see the differences from the photo? As they say, the barrel is hung out there, the aiming line is increased, the ability to install modern sights. Handle, butt. Isn't that enough?

[Undecim]

As they say, the trunk is hung there

This is a very significant factor for automatic weapons with gas-operated automatics.
Do you distinguish between minor design improvements and fundamental design differences?

[sanek45744]

Ahah . Well, why bother then. It was necessary to rivet until now ak47 until today. These are all minor improvements. After all, AKM is an improved AK47 and AK74 is the same AKM only under a different cartridge, AK 74M is the same AK74 only in plastic. Did I understand you correctly ?

[SSR]

Quote: sanek45744

Well, you google it once. Secondly, do you always see the differences from the photo? As they say, the barrel is hung out there, the aiming line is increased, the ability to install modern sights. Handle, butt. Isn't that enough?

Well, some "experts" even understand turning nuances, methods of drilling, hardening, stress relief and aging, steel grades and everything.
Show them a ramrod with a sensor, then they will say - cool!

[-Dmitry-]

Well, since you are such a subtle connoisseur, lay out the one that is accepted and indicate the fundamental differences between AKM and AK-12.

Yes, at least the caliber - the AKM-7.62, the AK-12 5.45. Tell me is not a fundamental difference? Well, then you are a very large specialist in small arms

[svp67]

Quote: Undecim

And what are the fundamental differences from AKM? The fact that the pencil case with accessories has moved into the pistol grip?

The vent tube assembly is made differently, the receiver cover, the return spring, the stock is made completely differently, many other minor changes, which ultimately increase the accuracy of a conventional AK

And in your photo it is not AK-12, here is AK-12 and a pencil case in his butt, an oiler and a screwdriver in the HANDLE

[Undecim]

We are not talking about "other minor changes", but fundamental design differences that make it possible to speak of the AK-12 as a weapon capable of "dramatically influencing the actions of infantry units on the battlefield" in comparison with the previous model.

[svp67]

Quote: Undecim

We're not talking about "other minor changes"

Well, these changes really increased its accuracy, it's a fact, especially in bursts.
And what seems to the Chinese there, so I am not responsible for their words.

[Undecim]

Well these changes really improved its accuracy.

It would be surprising if the modification, created seventy-five years after the first prototype, did not improve accuracy.

[svp67]

Quote: Undecim

It would be surprising if the modification, created seventy-five years after the first prototype, did not improve accuracy.

There are precedents, but there is a really strong leap here, in comparison with the 100 and 200 series, although those machine guns are more popular among the troops than 12, but this may be for now

[Undecim]

In the turbopatriots it burns, minus - as much as the fur coats are wrapped !!!

[Tank hard]

Quote: Undecim

In the turbopatriots it burns, minus - as much as the fur coats are wrapped !!!

In general, I have a strong impression that among the commentators, not only are the military a minority, but many have not served at all. In fact, there are no fundamental differences, they have upgraded a little, the ergonomics have been increased, and perhaps that's all. You can easily do without all these bars and collimators, but without the skills of good shooting and possession of an object, no upgrade will help. Some political officers (all in the party struggle for a piece of bacon) of the rear services.))

[Zoer]

What did you all want to get? Lser nuclear jets? You might think that the modern M4 has direct fundamental differences from the M16 of the times of Vietnam.

[Tank hard]

Quote: Zoer

What did you all want to get? Lser nuclear jets? You might think that the modern M4 has direct fundamental differences from the M16 of the times of Vietnam

Yes, me personally and AKM quite suits. Not everyone understands this. But here I can no longer help.))

[Drago]

https://www.kalashnikov.ru/ak-12-pri-mne-nikto-osobo-ne-hvalil/
Recently, the TG of the VGTRK military commander Alexander Sladkov published two messages regarding the new Russian AK-12 assault rifle.

[John22]

1. I did not notice any changes in the fixing of the return spring, although the expert said about it.
2. In previous AKs, cleaning the barrel was carried out using a cleaning rod and a case cover (so as not to rub the rifling of the barrel with a cleaning rod). The expert did not mention the device centering the ramrod on the barrel. Is it missing? Or is it incompetence?

[-Dmitry-]

And what are the fundamental differences from AKM? The fact that the pencil case with accessories has moved into the pistol grip?

In the photo, the first version of the AK-12 Zlobin, the AK-12 adopted for service is not the same.
There are significant differences, they are simply not visible to ordinary people - a suspended barrel, and the ability to install and remove sights without constant zeroing, a longer sighting line (that this alone already increases the accuracy of shooting). I'm not even talking about the adjustable butt. If only the appearance is important for you - they say, everything was weighed, then for the end user (that is, for practitioners, not couch warriors), these are far from cosmetic changes, but significant ones.

[Undecim]

hanging trunk

a longer sighting line, (that this alone already increases the accuracy of the fire).

couch warriors

[Tank hard]

Quote: -Dmitry-

I'm not talking about adjustable butt

Yeah ... it revolutionary change in the design!)))

[-Dmitry-]

Yeah ... This is a revolutionary change in design!))

And apart from sarcasm, is there anything essentially? Apparently not.

[Tank hard]

Quote: -Dmitry-

And apart from sarcasm, is there anything essentially? Apparently not.

Have you ever held a submachine gun in your hands?))

[-Dmitry-]

Have you ever held a submachine gun in your hands?))

And you? Have you tried to attach the stock AK-74M stock to winter clothes, but with a bulletproof vest?
Well, apparently, except in sarcasm, you can not do anything else. It is even corny to understand the meaning of what I have written.

[Tank hard]

Quote: -Dmitry-

Have you tried to attach the stock AK-74M stock to winter clothes, but with a bulletproof vest?

This is not a major design change. By the way, not being a good shooter, he managed to hit a target 100 meters from the AKM, holding the machine gun in the air, i.e. without resting the butt on the shoulder at all.)) What do I have in this butt? Well, we improved the ergonomics and that's it!

[-Dmitry-]

This is not a major design change.

And who spoke about drastic changes? I announced the cardinal ones earlier, I just mentioned the butt.

By the way, not being a good shooter, he managed to hit a target 100 meters from the AKM, holding the machine gun in the air, i.e. without resting the butt on the shoulder at all.))

It doesn't count once. Since I do not believe that in the army you were shooting from the hip all the time. You can, of course, indulge in this by shooting like in a movie, but this does not mean that the butt is not needed.

What's in this butt? Well, we improved the ergonomics and that's it!

And you are sarcastic to me about whether I was holding a submachine gun in my hands? :)
You can try to quickly throw up a machine gun in winter clothes with an armor, or at least just with an armor. I'll look at you.

[Tank hard]

Quote: -Dmitry-

And you are sarcastic to me about whether I was holding a submachine gun in my hands? :)
You can try to quickly throw up a machine gun in winter clothes with an armor, or at least just with an armor. I'll look at you.

The final rzhu.) You here are direct "superwaffe" which is what you saw, and not the usual design of the Kalash, which made improvements and that's it. Well, we didn't have armored vehicles)). I gave an example. that you can get there without an improved butt, with an improved one, it will probably be more convenient, but this is not new design, but the old one, with improvements, and that's it. Something like this.

[-Dmitry-]

Not new. And not a "superwafe", but a completely modern machine that meets modern requirements. Just don’t mean that you yourself can weight the AK-74M. Firstly, you will not be able to lengthen the sighting line and set the diopter by any tuning, and secondly, hang out the barrel. Thirdly, not a single conscript will weigh the machine gun assigned to him.
And where did you see, in the army of which country in the world, in service, as an army machine gun, some fundamentally new designs / machine guns? Yes, they simply do not exist. All are in the testing stage, or have been adopted by some separate units. Even the same Americans, announcing a competition to replace the M-4, eventually came to the Zig-Sauer Ministry of Agriculture. Which is the modernization of AR systems. There is nothing fundamentally new there. This is an AR system with improvements to meet modern requirements.

[Tank hard]

Quote: -Dmitry-

Not new. And not a "superwafe", but a completely modern machine that meets modern requirements.

Actually, I'm talking about this, but others about some kind of new design.))

Not new. And not a "superwafe"

Here, you yourself admit it.))

Quote: -Dmitry-

And where did you see, in the army of which country in the world, in service, as an army machine gun, some fundamentally new designs / machine guns? Yes, they simply do not exist.

What about Steyr AUG? Their modular structure and bullpup scheme, widespread use of plastic? It was adopted by Austria back in 1977. then in Australia in 1989, it is also used in one way or another in Argentina, Bulgaria, Bolivia, Brazil, England, Gambia, Germany, and 16 more countries around the world. Or is it not that?))

[-Dmitry-]

What about Steyr AUG? Their modular structure and bullpup scheme, widespread use of plastic? It was adopted by Austria back in 1977.

So where is it new? 35 years of construction. It's like saying that the AK-74 is a new assault rifle. Was once an original design, but it is not new!

[Tank hard]

Quote: -Dmitry-

So where is it new? 35 years of construction. It's like saying that the AK-74 is a new assault rifle. Was once an original design, but it is not new!

And I do not say that it is "new")) I say that it is fundamentally different, because for me, in principle, the AK-74 is the development of the AK-47, and the Steyu AUG is different and new for that period. And AK-12 and AK-15, this is just a development of the AK-47 scheme, with new technologies and improved performance, which should have been improved yesterday, but there was no money for this. And then some people made such a fuss, as if it was some kind of new design. And it's all the same, better, more convenient, but still the same.))

[-Dmitry-]

And I do not say that it is "new")) I say that it is fundamentally different, because for me, in principle, the AK-74 is the development of the AK-47, and the Steyu AUG is different and new for that period. And AK-12 and AK-15, this is just a development of the AK-47 scheme, with new technologies and improved performance, which should have been improved yesterday, but there was no money for this.

So AR-15/18 is also fundamentally different. All the difference with AR systems is only in the layout (which, by the way, is far from new, they experimented with it back in the 30s of the last century), but in a replaceable barrel. Everything.
However, you consider AUG to be a new technology, while the AR system is not. It's called double standards.
RPK-16, for example, is modular in this regard. So what? For some reason you don’t consider it a new technology.

And then some people made such a fuss, as if it was some kind of new design. And it's all the same, better, more convenient, but still the same.))

Not a new design, but a new generation of AK. I say it again, you name me NEW designs that are in service. AUG is not new. This is a different system, as well as the AR system, or HK roller-shaped type G-3, or FN FAL, these are all fundamentally different systems... But at the same time, no one follows the path of creating NEW systems, everyone is modernizing the old systems.

[Tank hard]

Quote: -Dmitry-

Not a new design, but a new generation of AK

Continuation of AK-47, well, what am I talking about?))

Quote: -Dmitry-

I say again, you name me the NEW designs that are in service

Yes, there are no new ones))) I'm talking about this, and also about the fact that the new generation of AK is the essence of the continuation of the AK-47, the scheme is the same.))

Quote: -Dmitry-

AUG is not new.

And at the time when it was adopted for service it was new because they developed a lot of things, but they did not accept it so massively. And even to such an amateur as me, frankly speaking, who has not spent all his life with an AK in his hands, it is immediately obvious that there is nothing new in the design. And here "experts like" do not see it.))

[-Dmitry-]

Yes, there are no new ones))) I'm talking about this, and also about the fact that the new generation of AK is the essence of the continuation of the AK-47, the scheme is the same.))

Then what are the claims to the AK-12?

And at the time when it was adopted for service it was new because they developed a lot of things, but they did not accept it so massively. And even to such an amateur as me, frankly speaking, who has not spent all his life with an AK in his hands, it is immediately obvious that there is nothing new in the design. And here "experts like" do not see it.))

At the time of adoption, the AK-47 was also a new design. So the AUG is an old rifle, almost 40 years old.
That's because you are an amateur, therefore you don't see :) For Soviet and Russian small arms, a diopter sight is cardinal innovation. The long sighting line is also a dramatic change for the Soviet / Russian school of small arms. It may be small things for you, but these are dramatic changes. If you don't understand this, that's another question.
And so almost all designs of machines have already been brought to perfection and do something fundamentally new is almost impossible.

[Tank hard]

Quote: -Dmitry-

Then what are the claims to the AK-12?

and where did I complain about the AK-12? Spoil it with a reference, claims to the qualifications of commentators who believe that the AK-12. this is something radically different from the AK-47.))

Quote: -Dmitry-

That's because you are an amateur, that's why you don't see :)

Well, at least I'm not hiding it.)) Unlike people like you.))

Quote: -Dmitry-

For Soviet and Russian small arms, the diopter sight is a cardinal innovation. The long sighting line is also a drastic change for the Soviet / Russian school of small arms. It may be small things for you, but these are dramatic changes. If you don't understand this, that's another question.

As a user, I need a reliable machine. with a minimum of body kit and bells and whistles. which I will not use in most cases. There are specialists for this. but their weapons must be appropriate for the task, well, or the one that is, as it was with my friends at a certain moment. And for you experts. probably the type of sight is very important, but I am an amateur and the previous one suits me completely.))

[-Dmitry-]

Well, at least I'm not hiding it.

Well that's right, for this

who believe that the AK-12. this is something radically different from the AK-47.))

the statement can be seen :)

As a user, I need a reliable machine.

Sorry, do you serve in the army? All the wishes of the "users" are expressed by the MO in the TK for the competition. And if the slot machine won the competition, then all the wishes "users" taken into account. And you do not belong to them, to "users".

[Tank hard]

Quote: -Dmitry-

Sorry, do you serve in the army?

Not. I'm like a pensioner here already.))

Quote: -Dmitry-

And if the slot machine won the competition, then all the wishes of the "users" were taken into account. And you do not belong to them, to "users"

I wanted to give you a reference about the need for a different body kit for weapons in a combat situation, but after that your opus. understood. what is not worth it. you all know better from your sofa than from mine.
Let's stay with ours - I am an amateur, you are an "expert". to teach some, only to spoil.))

[-Dmitry-]

I wanted to give you a reference about the need for a different body kit for weapons in a combat situation, but after that your opus. understood. what is not worth it. you all know better from your sofa than from mine.

Here's to you from the most, that neither is "users" about the need for body kits. And in order to get ahead of the burdens about the weight of the machine - the AKM without cartridges and the magazine weighs 3.1, the AK-12 with all its standard "body kits" 3.35 kg.


That is, if necessary, the user of the AK-12 will not have to dance with a tambourine in order to install on his machine, even corny, the same collimator that comes with it, by the way, a couple of minutes and you're done. But on the AKM, you will have to try VERY hard to put it.

[Tank hard]

Quote: -Dmitry-

Here's to you from the most, that neither is "users" about the need for body kits. And in order to get ahead of the burdens about the weight of the machine - the AKM without cartridges and the magazine weighs 3.1, the AK-12 with all its standard "body kits" 3.35 kg.

I told him about the scheme, he told me about the weight)) I did not begin to throw off the body kit, precisely because it is useless to conduct a discussion with you on this matter, in my opinion. I'm not fond of intelligence. for certain reasons))) We will stay with our own.))

[-Dmitry-]

I told him about the scheme, he told me about the weight)

Actually, it was not me who stuttered about the fact that body kits are not needed from the word at all.
You can sarcasm, but not Logic? An AK-12 with body kits will weigh less than the same AKM with exactly the same body kits. And this despite the fact that the AK-12 with body kits weighs only 150 grams. more.

I'm not fond of intelligence. for some reason)))

Well, apparently because you also consider him a couch specialist? :) Well, okay, but on the video it is the "users" who say. Or are they also couch? :)))
With you everything is clear then! :)))

[Tank hard]

Quote: -Dmitry-

Actually, it was not me who stuttered about the fact that the body kits not needed from the word at all

There was no such thing, tell a lie, again. Give my quote where I wrote, that the body kit is not needed from the word at all?)))

Quote: -Dmitry-

Well, apparently because you also consider him a couch specialist?

Well, he promotes the devices for credit.)) And where did the blogger-tanker with the nickname Razvedos take part in the hostilities? I'm curious ... Can you tell me, otherwise I don't know ...
By the way, here is an opinion about the need for a body kit in a certain situation from an individual who actually participated, though from the Ukrainian side and not from AK, but the opinion is very interesting, in my amateurish opinion:

[-Dmitry-]

a tank blogger with the nickname Razvedos?

Everything is clear with you :) There is no point in answering further.

[Tank hard]

Quote: -Dmitry-

Everything is clear with you :) There is no point in answering further.

Well, yes ... I watch more of these.

[Tank hard]

Quote: -Dmitry-

Everything is clear with you :) There is no point in answering further.

I asked the guys about the Intelligence Service, two business trips confirmed him. Fighting blogger, but after walking around the building from Krav Maga wearing an RDX helmet. I somehow stopped watching him.))

[ZAV69]

Quote: -Dmitry-

And so almost all designs of machines have already been brought to perfection and it is almost impossible to do something fundamentally new.

Why is it impossible? It seems that no one has ever done it with ZhMV.

[-Dmitry-]

Why is it impossible? It seems that no one has ever done it with ZhMV.

They try to do it for at least 40 years. If not more.

[Drago]

Yes. Recently, in the TG of the VGTRK military commander Alexander Sladkov, two messages were published regarding the new Russian AK-12 assault rifle.
https://www.kalashnikov.ru/ak-12-pri-mne-nikto-osobo-ne-hvalil/

[John22]

This is a 2012 design, it was abandoned and returned to the old scheme due to savings. Only the fixing of the gas outlet was changed.

[Grits]

Quote: Undecim

And what are the fundamental differences from AKM?

If I am not mistaken, the front sight on the AK-12 is not on the barrel, but on the gas pipe. Maybe this is not an AK-12 in your picture?

[Alex]

You have shown an image of an early version of the AK-12. The final version is closer to the AK-74.
Regarding the differences from the old AK. They are certainly not radical - the automation is preserved. Buttstock with adjustable length, non-detachable gas tube (removable plug for front cleaning), new muzzle brake-flash suppressor, modified form of fuse translator, added firing mode with a shooting accuracy does not come into contact with the barrel), piccatini strips.

[Ingenegr]

Quote: svp67

Did you have to hold it in your hands? And disassemble and reassemble?

I had to. And hold, and disassemble, assemble, and conduct test shots.
The opinion about the AK-12/15 was as follows - the assault rifle has definitely not become more accurate and more reliable than the AK-74M. Moreover, a number of design changes are striking, because they made the operation of the machine less convenient than the AK-74M.

This is a pencil case located in the butt cavity. Three-link screw-on cleaning rod, the links of which fix the accessory: brush, wiper, drift and screwdriver wrench. To get to any element, it is necessary to unscrew at least two links of the cleaning rod - otherwise, apart from the punch, you cannot remove other accessories.
By the way, a pistol grip oiler and a pencil case from a buttstock when firing from the GP-25/30 easily fly away in unpredictable directions. Sometimes irrevocably.
These are the most harmless "shoals", in reality there are many more. You can't describe everything in the comments.

[SARANCHA1976]

Ak12 is 74th with painted lips

[HOWEVER 200]

Yes, there is nothing revolutionary about small arms for the last 100 years.
The revolution took place in the second half of the 19th - early 20th century.

[Mwg]

Clones of this machine made with / without a low quality license are usually called Kalashoids. Do you change the meanings of words in passing?

[seacap]

Not quite, a lot has already been said about this, and that’s not the point; the requirements for mass infantry weapons are completely different, to which they correspond, moreover, now and in the future. TT and PPS are still great weapons, and AKS and AVT-40 are still in the top of the most expensive and desirable ones today.

[paul3390]

Uh-huh .. Attach a bourgeois body kit to the old AK - and call it a new machine type .. Cool, what ..
And how many times it has been said - it is not necessary to invent a new barrel, sawing the state loot, but to deal with the quality of gross army cartridges! With existing shitty ones - no heap increase will work. And with decent, not even mattress, but at least Serbian - and old models have very decent performance .. Checked .. In general - IMHO another window dressing and struggle of Nanai boys.

[sanek45744]

And do not say it was necessary to rivet ak 47 to this day, what else Kalashnikov created and not bother. And then everyone saws and saws the loot. Did I understand your logic correctly?

[paul3390]

Write nonsense. AK-12 - the same AKM in fact, only with a different body kit. Which is easily put on the old ones. The rest is bullshit. All the same, only the collimator can be put on the bar, the optics are already floating when the lid is opened. Checked. A detachable ramrod is generally nonsense, if the sleeve blows, you get bogged down to collect it before knocking it out. A non-removable gas pipe is generally evil - it is much more inconvenient to clean. And more - there is nothing new there. Well - except that the fuse is more convenient, but even then - instead of the old one, it is easily put. For example, I put ..

And this is - according to your type, a new model, such as deeply advanced ???

[Terran ghost]

AK-12 - the same AKM in fact, only with a different body kit

Well, all the same, no. The AK12 is essentially an improved version of the AK74M with a new tank destroyer and a "free hanging" barrel (which improves shooting accuracy).

[paul3390]

Can someone explain to me - why is there a hanging barrel on an automatic weapon? This is not a chatterbox for you ..

But - they say that, for accuracy, the barrel is not pressed but on the pins. Great - when will the pins come loose? And they - will blabber.

[John22]

Is the piston not touching the vent tube? If so, which one is it posted?

[sanek45744]

ahah you contradict yourself. The same AKM is a slightly improved AK 47, and AK74 is the same AKM only under a different cartridge, and according to your logic, AK 74M is just the same AK74 only in plastic. And for some reason it was all new models, but then something is wrong. Let them call ak 47A7 so it will be better? You forgot to write about the barrel hanging, increasing the sighting line. does it improve shooting performance?

[paul3390]

You forgot to write about the barrel hanging, increasing the sighting line.

Do you understand what you are writing about? Do you have shooting experience yourself? And then doubts on this score are oppressive ..

[sanek45744]

ahahah well, yes, a question to a question, this is of course indicative, but from me they take doubts about your adequacy, for example, and what now. I have experience in shooting, what's next. What is there with my questions, the answers will be, or so you will zigzag.

[paul3390]

Stupid questions - and lazy to answer. For it’s obvious that you don’t know shit what you’re writing about.

[sanek45744]

Ahahah well, yes, yes. You can only kind of be smart and not any specifics one water. Which of us is still dumb yes to is you

[paul3390]

Okay - for woodpeckers I will explain in more detail .. A suspended trunk is needed on long and thick trunks, so as not to interfere with the correct vibration of these when fired. Thin trunks - it is better to pour tightly into the stock, the so-called bedding. Now explain - what relation can barrel vibration have to rapid firing from automatic weapons? This is not a bolt from which you once fired and pull the bolt, here the automation affects the flight of the bullet by orders of magnitude more than the vibration of the barrel when it passes. Plus - shooting from unstable positions when hand shake and the wrong tab are affected.
Well - and on the feijoa hung out the trunk on an army machine gun? So far - intelligible?

Then. What is a hang out trunk? This is to attach the stock with only one end to the receiver. Everything else is profanity. I hope - no need to explain how this affects the strength of the structure? But the machine is used not only at the training ground .. So far, everything is clear?

Extension of the aiming line. Immediately you can see a person who is not able to shoot. It's good when you take one shot slowly. For example, a sniper, or hunting. If you shoot offhand at different targets, then the shorter the aiming line, the easier it is to transfer the fire. What is more important for an army machine gun? Or do you think Kalashnikov is stupid, since he originally made exactly the same sights on the AK?

Why is the collimator made? To shorten the aiming line as much as possible, reducing it to two points. Precisely for high-speed offhand shooting.

Ever seen replacement bullet barrels for hunting smoothbore? Duc - look at the picture and think, why are people doing this? Especially take a look at the sights .. Maybe - then finally you will insect?

That's it, I finished on this, and so a lot of time to the devil wasted on someone ..

[sanek45744]

Well, yes, you are smart and in the mines of defense, complete fools are sitting. Speak easier, otherwise the show-off is above the roof, but in fact, so far nothing. People like you can only convey cleverness with a clever look. I still say your opinion should still be releasing ak 47 that Kalashnikov came up with, because the rest is all small improvements. I'm still interested in America and Europe in the same place, then the fools use all this in their weapons. Ahh, here's a three-line according to yours should be in the army. This year they made new ak with a fracture, then I probably drank some dough

[paul3390]

Hmm .. The old saying is right, to teach a fool is only to spoil.

[sanek45744]

Did you hold a new machine gun in your hands and shoot from it?

[-Dmitry-]

Did you hold a new machine gun in your hands and shoot from it?

He has Vepr-308 - as I understand from here all the knowledge.

[sanek45744]

Well, this is serious then, so that everyone would be taught life.

[paul3390]

No need to be clever - only my personal 5 guns .. Not counting those around.

[-Dmitry-]

No need to be clever - only my personal 5 guns .. Not counting those around.

Well, did you personally hold the AK-12 in your hands, shoot from it?

[paul3390]

I held it in my hands. Shot - from the civilian version, TR3. Otherwise, I would not write. In contrast to the runaway idiots, I only expound what I have an idea about ..

[-Dmitry-]

I held it in my hands. Shot - from the civilian version, TR3.

OK. Then the question. How much does the TR-3 weigh and the AKM (Saiga 7.62) or AK-74M (Saiga 5.45) weighed to the same condition? And how much does it cost to tune the Saiga to the state of TR-3? Given that, for example, Saiga 5.45 isp. 03 costs 44-45K, and TR-3 5.45 63 K. That is, the difference there is only 20K. And tuning will obviously be more expensive.

In contrast to the runaway idiots, I only expound what I have an idea about ..

Well, that is, that the aiming line on the AKM is specifically so as to shoot quickly, did you learn from Kalashnikov himself or a specialist from Izhmash (KK)?

[Drago]

https://www.kalashnikov.ru/ak-12-pri-mne-nikto-osobo-ne-hvalil/
Recently, the TG of the VGTRK military commander Alexander Sladkov published two messages regarding the new Russian AK-12 assault rifle.

[paul3390]

Imagine - yes. Do you have anything besides a slingshot? And in essence you have something to say chewed? Or again a rotten bazaar with empty screams? Pay attention - you just didn’t deign to write anything on the case. Some slogans. There are a dime a dozen of such empty slobber. We've been running around lately ..

[Michael HORNET]

Well, I drank the dough and there is. AK-74 was - for the ARMY - better than this fashionable craft
Let's start with the fact that the AK-12 ... has become TWICE more expensive than the AK-74M
Has it gotten even 5% better? No
Yes, there are many minor cosmetic changes and one major one - changing the type of sight. Taking into account the fact that in Russian culture this type of scopes was almost never existed before, the idea is doubtful once, and it was implemented incorrectly two times. The sight itself is made badly - there is only one aperture hole, for all distances. Whereas for short-range shooting it would be necessary more than there is, and for far-off shooting - less than there is. As in the standard - AR-15. The sight bar, where the aperture is located, is movable in the horizontal plane, which gives an oval hole at some distances. And the length of the sighting line did not increase significantly - the rear sight moved to the back of the cover - but also the front sight on the gas outlet. That for that. In general, the sight is very controversial, I can't say that it is really bad, but I don't see any advantages either.

[sanek45744]

Cosmetic solutions? yes, your logic is clear to me, it was necessary to do ak 47 so far, you see, they have arranged new models here to create. And yes, since you are such an expert, tell me how much the model of the same AKM or AK 74 was brought to mind. The main task for the AK12 constructs was to create a model so that modern sights could be put on it, etc. , without increasing the weight of the weapon, improve the usability. What they actually did.

[-Dmitry-]

Quote: paul3390

Ever seen replacement bullet barrels for hunting smoothbore? Duc - look at the picture and think, why are people doing this? Especially take a look at the sights .. Maybe - then finally you will insect?

How else to position the rear sight on the barrel to smoothbore? No way, that's why they do it, and not at all because of your conjectures. And the point in some other sighting to smoothbore no.

[paul3390]

Once again - pay attention to WHERE the rear sight is located on the bullet barrel. After all, it could easily have been moved in order to lengthen the line? But no - he is where he is. For the same reasons as on the AKM.

Another shooter-theorist .. How many of you are here ..

[-Dmitry-]

Once again - pay attention to WHERE the rear sight is located on the bullet barrel. After all, it could easily have been moved in order to lengthen the line? But no - he is where he is.

Do you even see the difference between a rifled barrel and a Lancaster? Apparently not at all. And then, this is if we are talking about 155-20, and not about a simple 155th. There is generally a smooth barrel. And it makes no sense to make some kind of long sighting line there.

For the same reasons as on the AKM.

Did Kalashnikov tell you this, or is it just your speculation?

[paul3390]

Do you even understand that it has nothing to do with it? Which barrel and under what? It looks like no. Okay - tired of dealing with balabolic theorists. Who, even in the army, did not trust the machine gun. All that I wanted - I have already stated above. Disagree - your problem. I did not hire myself here to educate the masses.

[-Dmitry-]

Do you even understand that it has nothing to do with it? Which barrel and under what? It looks like no. Okay - tired of dealing with balabolic theorists. Who, even in the army, did not trust the machine gun. All that I wanted - I have already stated above. Disagree - your problem. I did not hire myself here to educate the masses.

That is, in your opinion, there is no difference between a smooth and a rifled barrel? :)
You'd better not engage in enlightenment at all :)

[Terran ghost]

Or do you think Kalashnikov is stupid, since he originally made exactly the same sights on the AK?

No, I don’t think so. It's just that the original receiver cover on the AK / AKS well .. not the optimal, let's say, place for placing the diopter sight. The reason is that each time the scope was disassembled and reassembled, the scope would shift slightly. With clear results for shooting accuracy.

[Terran ghost]

If you shoot offhand at different targets, then the shorter the aiming line, the easier it is to transfer the fire. What is more important for an army machine gun?

The question is at what exact shooting distance.

[paul3390]

On the one that is most relevant in real life. Not more than 100 meters. Well, 150 .. For at long distances - after all, other means of destruction mostly work .. Tea - times are not Buonapartia ..

[Terran ghost]

On the one that is most relevant in real life. Not more than 100 meters. Well 150 ..
at long distances - after all, other means of destruction mostly work.

The real conditions they are different and depend on the theater of operations. For the soldiers of the US Armed Forces, for example, the 5,56mm range of an assault rifle cartridge (about 400 meters if anything) .. was not enough. And a good level of saturation of troops with mortars, artillery and air support did not help.

[Tank hard]

Quote: paul3390

Stupid questions - and lazy to answer. For it is obvious that you don’t understand a damn what you’re writing about.

There the main argument is-

Ahahah

Which undoubtedly speaks about the qualifications of the individual.))

[svp67]

Quote: paul3390

AK-12 - the same AKM in fact, only with a different body kit.

Let's just say NOT AT ALL. It is assembled somewhat differently.

[-Dmitry-]

The rest is bullshit. All the same, only the collimator can be put on the bar, the optics are already floating when the lid is opened. Checked.

You? Or did one grandmother say?

[paul3390]

Yes. Me. Fortunately, I don't know your grandmother.

[-Dmitry-]

Yes. Me

On what? On the Vepr?

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: paul3390

Attach a bourgeois body kit to the old AK - and name the type a new machine gun

Of course, not a fundamentally new machine gun, but a diopter sight (apparently a spare one), a different fastening of the receiver cover and the transfer of a front sight is quite pulling for a serious modification.

[paul3390]

other fastening of the receiver cover

There was a similar mount on Vepr-12. From there they pulled it off. You can't put optics on it. STP still floats .. The version with the top cover is fundamentally not suitable for attaching sights, except perhaps collimators. As you do not try to fix this cover .. Design feature. That is why - when the Union was on the side bar and stopped - albeit harder, but reliable.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: paul3390

There was a similar mount on Vepr-12. From there they pulled it off.

Well, let's put it even earlier, there was noticeable backlash on the AKS-74u, however, the shortening did not really interfere, however, the claim for the backlash was not to the hinge, but to the lid retainer, on the AK-12 that the hinge and the retainer look noticeably more solid. How on the Vepr, I don't know.

[Barberry25]

funny anecdote .. at one time everyone shouted and demanded "we want a picatinny, we want a butt-telescope, we want an energetic hand, we want a collimator" ... but as soon as they got them .. all .. "ugh, not that, but what are you! ".. You can't please

[paul3390]

Again. The necessary body kit - fits perfectly on old models. Without all these tambourine dances. My example:

Have I invented a new rifle? Can I run to get a patent?

[Barberry25]

only the weapon becomes heavier (by 800 grams, i.e. 4,4 kg weighs while the AK-12 weighs 3,5 kg, i.e. lighter than the Ak-74M by 100 grams) and unreliable due to the mass of adapters, etc. and so on .. Not to mention that "as Urzhumtsev said, the accuracy of the ak-12 in relation to the ak-74 is 20% better." everything's Alright..

[paul3390]

Can you explain - due to what type of heap improved there? Is it clear somehow?

There are no miracles. Again - due to what allegedly the weight decreased? It's great without adapters, but then you can't change the same stock.

[Barberry25]

a less slack design, a straighter aiming line and a suspended barrel - so the accuracy is higher for you .. "you can't change the same butt" ... But where should a soldier change the butt? all the same, why?

[paul3390]

Who has a slack design - AKM ??? And he has a curved line of sight? Oh my God..

Did you ever have to shoot? Do you understand that in an automatic weapon, an unhanged barrel has an extremely small effect on the pile? Moreover - when shooting not lying on the range. Well this is not a bolt from the stop. Your banal hand shake will affect much more. I'm not talking about other factors, like shutter movement, etc.

[Barberry25]

I remind you that the reliability of any system is not a very accurate fit of parts, and vice versa, the more accurate the fit, the higher the accuracy

[svoroponov]

In the case of the previous machine guns, during the turn, the first shot went into the target, and at the next, the machine gun lifted a little and led to dispersion. Now this is not the case, where you aim, and the first and subsequent shots go there.

[bk0010]

Quote: paul3390

Can you explain - due to what type of heap improved there? Is it clear somehow?

I recommend trying imported cartridges. According to reviews, a bunch of it turns out not worse than that of the AR-15. It is clear that this is not about "there", it may just be interesting for you as an owner.

[andreypilot]

You came to serve. They gave you an old model. Will you dance with a tambourine, putting on your body kit, or is it better for a warrior to immediately get modern weapons, without dancing with tambourines? This is a rhetorical question that does not require an answer.

[paul3390]

What does your body kit have to do with it? What - the state could not put it on the previous models? And - much cheaper ..

[andreypilot]

If the state had simply put a body kit on the old AK, you would have thrown a tantrum about drank some dough and about the fact that you need to make a new machine, and not sculpt pribluda on the old one. Once again - is it better for a modern soldier with an AK-74 or AK-12? What is more convenient, ergonomic and more in line with modern realities ?? How many moans there were about the unregulated stock, the absence of Picatinny rails, and so on and so forth. So they took a worthy replacement for the old man. As simple and reliable as the previous one, only more functional. That's all algebra.

[paul3390]

Let’s you deal with your tantrums, and will not invent for others?

Once again, all this could be achieved with much less effort and money.

[andreypilot]

Of course. You are much smarter than the General Staff of the Russian Federation and you know what the army needs.

[-Dmitry-]

Have I invented a new rifle? Can I run to get a patent?

And how much is your "new rifle" worth? Pure body kit. And how much is the carbine itself in stock? I suspect that the tuning did not come out cheaply - the butt is 10-15K, the forend with a pad is also 10-15 K, the handle is 1-3 K., the pistol grip, the dovetail with slats, the belt. I think about 40-50K all the tuning came out. Plus the carbine itself is 40-50 K. Plus the weight has grown significantly. And the stock AK-12 already has all your tuning and costs (civilian version) 62K. So nobody needs your "patent" for free :)

[andreypilot]

Agree. Well, here "specialists" came running, who "better" know what is needed in the troops. They are now and the machine is not the same, and done crookedly, and in general they would have done better. The fact that they made an excellent mass machine gun for modern requirements is not important. As the saying goes, ".... - all of them are" God's dew "..."

[Barberry25]

in 2008, on all forums, they wrote that they needed a new assault rifle with a telescope butt, an ergonomic handle and an integrated picatinny rail ...

[Roma 1977]

Kalash is like a Kalash. The old ones were fine with me, with wooden details. And their accuracy was normal - at 300 meters it gave stable hits to the chest target. What else do you need?

[UVB]

My purely personal opinion is that the best machine of all times and peoples is AKM (AKMS)

[Terran ghost]

That is just why the USSR Ministry of Defense disagreed with you twice. First, in the 1970s, with the transition to a 5,45mm cartridge (which gave a noticeable increase in shooting accuracy), and then in the 1980s, announcing the Abakan competition.

[prior]

Don't talk about AKMS. I used to lean against the receiver to aim ... my teeth still remember the recoil ...

[UVB]

I used to lean against the receiver to aim ... my teeth still remember the recoil ...

Yeah, you can also snuggle up to the optics with your eye. Something always gets in the way of a shitty dancer.

[prior]

Do you know another method of aiming - from the hip?
Optics in my time were not installed on AKMS.
AKM, unlike AKMS, did not play in the butt.

[UVB]

The first time I come across the statement that when aiming, you need to cuddle up to the receiver. It seems that in training, if you served, you used up three cartridges and did not hold the machine gun in your hands anymore.

[prior]

Well no. Compulsory shooting every two weeks. First, the 1st army, then the border guard ... and all from the AKMS.

[UVB]

Don't lie, don't disgrace the border guards. Or he served time in the officers' mess. The level is immediately visible. I'm a border guard myself. KSAPO, military unit 2042, 1977-1980.

[prior]

Where do you see the lie?

[UVB]

Anyone who owns a machine at least a little. will not press its cheek to the receiver. And where did such "border guards" serve?

[prior]

KZPO, OKPP Odessa, 75-77

[UVB]

All clear. I did not see the border in my eyes.

[Terran ghost]

The first time I come across the statement that when aiming, you need to cuddle up to the receiver

Perhaps the folding stock itself was meant, and not the receiver.

[konstantin68]

Quote: prior

Optics in my time were not installed on AKMS.

They even put it very well. The grenade sight fits perfectly on the dovetail. We didn't complain.

[-Dmitry-]

They even put it very well. The grenade sight fits perfectly on the dovetail. We didn't complain.

On AKMS? Or is it on the AKMSN? So these are 2 different machines.

[Cat]

My purely personal opinion is that the best machine of all times and peoples is AKM (AKMS)

My opinion is also purely personal - there is no best weapon. There are weapons that are optimal for various reasons, such as: the method of recruiting and training the army, the conditions for use, the economic capabilities of the state, etc., etc.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Itself not Copenhagen in the machines at all, but "VO" mentioned the extremely low quality of the AK-12, which easily breaks down even in normal, non-military conditions. So...

[vfwfr]

"" "VO" mentioned the extremely low quality of the AK-12 ""
As far as I remember, not on "VO", but in general, AK-12 from the first batch / modification, there were problems.
But the first serial sample also looked differently .. noticeably.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: vfwfr

As far as I remember, not on "VO", but in general

No, it was on VO - a person familiar with the AK-12 firsthand laid out interesting photographs ...

[Moore]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

but on "VO" the extremely low quality of the AK-12 was mentioned, which easily breaks down even in normal, non-military conditions.

In the photo of the correspondent Sladkov there is, for example, this:

I saw something like this after the MT-LB drove over the AK-74, which was loved by the fighter. Plus the barrel is bent.
How do we consider the breakdown conditions as ordinary non-military ones?
I will not overload the text with photos - there is a photo of a gas piston with shells. KK antagonists claim that a deliberately defective rod was used, the rest advise to clean the weapon on time after firing.
The situation with the AK-12 resembles the attitude of the Red Army towards the SVT-40. Some swore that weapons were shit, they didn't want to shoot after the mud, others went through the whole war with it.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Moore

I will not overload the text with photos - there is a photo of a gas piston with shells.

there were other photos - with a broken front sight and something else. Moreover, according to the text of the comment, it turned out that the result of the breakdown was not the impact of the level "MTL-B moved", but "stunned on the parade ground"

[Moore]

I brought the broken front sight protection, the front sight itself cannot be broken even by the most talented hands - it is mostly screwed into the defense. Yes, there is also a crack in the forend and a few other jambs. Nevertheless, from my point of view, which is not imposed on anyone - in most cases, it was dropped there not only on the parade ground ...
Let's see how typical the identified jambs are.

[ada]

Quote: Moore

The KK antagonists claim that a deliberately defective rod was used, the rest advise to clean the weapon on time after firing.
The situation with the AK-12 resembles the attitude of the Red Army towards the SVT-40. Some swore that weapons were shit, they didn't want to shoot after the mud, others went through the whole war with it.

[i] [/ i]
Pro to clean on time. I had a case on a business trip. Upon returning to the base camp and the completion of the promises of "distribution of orders and medals" for a good check of the entrusted weapons and military equipment, etc., but everything is in place, cleaning and maintenance were not postponed for joy. We serve, I look after my platoon, and next to me a soldier strokes an AK-74M. I ask ...? He answers that he did not understand, he does not understand! He has this thing not moving (bolt carrier). I ask - how did you load, unload, inspect, fire? When did it jam? He replies that this has already been given. In short, I tore this frame out of the box for him - the gas piston was tightly bound to the tube, no soaking helped. He took a small tool with him on a business trip just in case (something always has to be used), including old Soviet files, gave it to the soldier and showed him what needed to be cleaned. The conglomerate has mastered the file, but there is not a single annular groove on the piston, only traces are all in small shells. I give the command to everyone to remove the bolt carrier and the piston for inspection - a third of the battery of grooves on the piston or not at all or their traces, some pistons are slightly conical in shape. But they all retained the operability of the automatics, no one knows what kind of shot there was. All chrome plating is preserved satisfactorily - that is, such a piston design is from the factory. In general, the case was completed by a small skin and the machine started working like a clock. Yes, the gas pipe also had to be cut, but the integrity was preserved. Here is an example of hot corrosion in an aggressive environment and not timely maintenance, lack of proper control. But this is a war, albeit a small one. I was just lucky to calculate that I didn't have to use small arms, the crews were already three to four people, and there were three installations in the battery and there was a lot of work, not up to the machine gun (the 2C3 loaders really had their hands "below the knees"), but they were so lucky not all, and minus one barrel - this is fraught with the defense of the ACS, especially in urban areas.
The conclusion is clear.

[konstantin68]

I agree, as an infantryman, I would choose the AKS-74. And even without a collimator.

[Drago]

Recently, the TG of the VGTRK military commander Alexander Sladkov published two messages regarding the new Russian AK-12 assault rifle.
https://www.kalashnikov.ru/ak-12-pri-mne-nikto-osobo-ne-hvalil/

[rocket757]

At the same time, the Chinese journalist writes that today, speaking about the Russian army, the issue of hypersonic missiles and the modernization of the nuclear arsenal is most often raised, but at the same time "modernization, which can radically affect the actions of infantry units on the battlefield, is overlooked."

The territory cannot be liberated, conquered, controlled until the FOOT of a SOLDIER, his army ...
And what else can you talk about?
The soldier must be armed AS IT SHOULD!

[Catfish]

Hi, hi.
Is the AK-12 right?
I don’t presume to judge, I didn’t shoot from it, all the more I didn’t use it for a long time in real conditions, but ... to operate an ancient platform by technical standards, in my opinion, is not the best option for an army claiming to be the front line.

[rocket757]

Konstantin
I can assume that the ancient, but very successful platform will outlive, and reasonably, a bunch of newfangled pieces of iron ... all the more, it has already been so.
Those. until something appears PRINCIPALLY BETTER, according to the totality of characteristics, the Kalash will be in demand and ...

[Catfish]

Let's see, Lebedev's pistol still managed to be shoved, regardless of all the lobbies, but, again, its manufacturer is the Kalashnikov concern.

[rocket757]

The pistol is an individual weapon ... shooting is generally bad for me, alas, a retrained left-hander, without a special technique and a lot, a lot of training can not shoot decently.
The machine gun is still here and there, but something smaller is not in an arc.
So I just need a mortar or a ZUshka ...

[andreypilot]

Do you immediately offer weapons a la "Star Wars" ??? We made a convenient machine gun for a soldier to supply to the troops in large quantities. Convenient and reliable, what else is needed for the massive rearmament of the army ?? And to expand my horizons .. What do you think is not ancient by technical standards platform in other advanced armies and why it is better than our "ancient", please tell us. And let's take a look at a modern bike as an example - the same 2 wheels and pedals as in bicycles 100 years ago - nothing new, but you don't want to have those old options, you need a modern bike, do you?

[Catfish]

... you need a modern bike, don't you?

That's what you don't need for nothing , and the ATV is enough.
But seriously, the armies are no longer what they were twenty years ago and the infantry chains of "massive" armies do not go into an open field to attack under enemy fire, tactics have changed, and fundamentally, therefore, a modern army needs modern weapons, and not what was twenty, and even more so fifty years ago. No one will send conscripts into a real battle, this is the work of contract soldiers, for this exoskeletons stuffed with electronics have already been developed, and with such equipment the old Kalashnikov looks archaic.
I do not know if we are developing new small arms for the modern army, I hope so, but I have no information.

[sifgame]

Everyone uses, as you put it, "ancient" reliably proven platforms, Blasters have not yet been invented.

[Catfish]

Blasters haven’t been invented yet.

Already invented. But I'm mainly about promising developments in terms of shooting, we have neither a rumor nor a spirit about this.

[sifgame]

I am behind the times. Who invented the blaster? And what promising developments can there be? As long as there is such a classic bullet, everything has already been created for it and nothing else will happen

[-Dmitry-]

but ... to operate an ancient, by technical standards platform, in my opinion, is not the best option for an army claiming the title of advanced

AR-15, AR-18 are also ancient platforms - the USA and NATO operate, and the Germans also make their new trunks on them.

[Catfish]

So on health, let them exploit, that's their business. We have enough of our own men with brains to look at Americans.

[-Dmitry-]

So on health, let them exploit, that's their business. We have enough of our own men with brains to look at Americans.

So our guys with brains made the AK-12, but you see it is doubtful - the old platform.

[Catfish]

They did not make a new machine gun, but tried to modernize the old platform, what will the Kalashnikov concern do when the last drop is squeezed out of Mikhail Timofeevich's design?

[-Dmitry-]

They did not make a new machine gun, but tried to modernize the old platform, what will the Kalashnikov concern do when the last drop is squeezed out of Mikhail Timofeevich's design?

So, according to your logic, you should have stayed with the AK-47? :) Something I do not understand you. Almost all, as you put it, the "advanced" armies of the world are armed with old platforms, which are modernized to modern requirements. Name the armies of the world with fundamentally new "platforms"? Only 2 armies come to mind (FAMAS, like AUG, cannot be called fundamentally new "platforms" (automatic weapons) - developments of the 70s of the last century) - Israel and Germany. For Tavor I will not say (although the layout scheme is also old - bullpup was invented back in the 30s of the 20th century), I'm not sure, but the G-36 is nothing more than a modernized old "platform" AR-18. Tavor, judging by the description, is also a variation of the AR-18. So, what do you think is a modern platform?
There is no need to grovel about AEK - AEK is in no way suitable for an army machine gun. For the Special Forces, yes, but not as an army machine gun.

[Catfish]

Something I don't understand you

Well, you don't understand, okay. I have already said what I wanted to say and I am not going to "grovel" in front of you. Happy to stay.

[-Dmitry-]

Well, that is, there is essentially nothing to say. It's clear.

[Catfish]

Happy for you. This is probably very good and pleasant when everything is always clear.

[Michael HORNET]

Was it necessary to do something?
In total, it was necessary to release the lightest collimator to the AK-74 on the lightest and smallest side bracket, move the stock folding unit to the right (so that the stock does not interfere with the collimator) and add a new fuse with a pad. ALL

[-Dmitry-]

Was it necessary to do something?
In total, it was necessary to release the lightest collimator to the AK-74 on the lightest and smallest side bracket, move the stock folding unit to the right (so that the stock does not interfere with the collimator) and add a new fuse with a pad. ALL

The side bracket is technology from the 60s and 70s. Do you propose that the sun in the 21st century have an assault rifle in the second half of the 20th century? :)

[Cat Alexandrovich]

Some kind of muddy little article. The Chinese mixed the sour with the high. And we are discussing this. We are strange.

[Yrec]

Quote: sanek45744

where is your proof !?

The design and the cartridge are the same, what more proof is needed? Maybe AK-12 was charged with magic runes for accuracy?

[Sergey Kulikov_3]

People also have practically the same "design and cartridge", but there are nuances, some have geniuses, while others have exhibits for the Kunstkamera.

[Cat]

talk about the hypersonic weapons of Russia, but few people remember the appearance of the AK-12 assault rifle among the Russian infantrymen

And rightly so. These are, as it were, completely incomparable things. An increase in the performance characteristics of the individual even by 20-30%, in principle, does not change anything in the strategic alignment. Unlike hypersonic weapons, which disastrously shift the balance of offensive weapons and air defense / missile defense.
This is by analogy - if you have a machine gun, then the quality and size of the knife does not play anymore.

[Sergey Kulikov_3]

If the chances of an infantryman to hit the enemy are 20-30% higher, then he will dominate the battlefield, and hypersound will not solve the problem of seizing territory. Maybe you wanted to compare the "big badabum" and the infantryman?

[Yrec]

Quote: svp67

Quote: Yrec

AK-12 is an ordinary Kalashoid with a Picatinny rail.

Did you have to hold it in your hands? And disassemble and reassemble?

Does assembly / disassembly greatly affect accuracy? I have had a lot of things to hold in my hands. Any Kalashoid, except the 108th, will have a barrel toss. Because of the piston, which creates moment with the shoulder. From the machine, the accuracy of both AKM and AK-74 is practically the same, although there are different cartridges. The AK-12 is fundamentally no different.

[zenion]

As it is no different, but the numbers!

[Normann]

And then what is the point of its production? if he

is no different.

[-Dmitry-]

From the machine, the accuracy of both AKM and AK-74 is practically the same, although there are different cartridges. The AK-12 is fundamentally no different.

The sofa doctor of technical sciences is immediately visible

There are many fundamental differences - a long sighting line, this cannot be achieved by simple tuning, the KSK is attached differently, which makes it possible to put / remove sighting without constant zeroing, a suspended forend, another gas vent assembly. Or what is your fundamental difference? Then explain to me the fundamental difference between the M-4 and the HC-416 or, for example, SCAR-L?

[Michael HORNET]

There is no long sighting line in AK_12, front sight on the gas block
The sight itself, as an army sight in our conditions, is controversial, has both advantages and disadvantages.

[-Dmitry-]

There is no long sighting line in AK_12, front sight on the gas block

So what? The sighting line has become longer this is a fact.

The sight itself, as an army sight in our conditions, is controversial, has both advantages and disadvantages.

All NATO armies have been using such sights for at least half a century - they don’t blow a mustache and wipe away tears of joy.

[Sands Careers General]

Oh, how many "specialists" dug out, go from the Sumerian horde)))
Hayat is an excellent machine gun.

[Timofey T]

Once in his life he shot from a machine gun, AK 74, at a military meeting at the institute. Out of 12 rounds, I hit 3 growth targets and 2 machine-gun nests. Shooting distance 300 meters. If AK 12 is even better, then I don't know what else is needed

[zenion]

At one time about the fighters in Africa, armed with Kalashnikovs, they spoke of a weapon in the hands of a non-skilled person - a piece of metal. But they learned. They use the bow as a silent means and know how to get out of the machine.

[Normann]

Who taught them?

[zenion]

The sight taught them!

[123456789]

NEW KALASHNIKOV AK-12. Detailed overview. Interesting in details

[Normann]

And engines for fifth-generation aircraft overshadow such an important development - the latest anti-personnel mines and helmets ((

[Freeman]

[media = https: //ok.ru/video/32350669493]

Quote: SKVichyakow

The fact that this is a custom article of the Kalashnikov concern speaks for itself. You will not praise yourself, no one will praise.

For those who do not know - Concern "Kalashnikov", practically a private "office" (51% - "Rostec" and 49% - "private traders").

A quote from the movie "A Girl with a Character" is just right for this situation.
https://ok.ru/video/32350669493


Shl. Unfortunately, the site's functionality allows you to insert video "directly" only from a specific video hosting.

[agond]

Presumably, when creating the AK-12, computer modeling was widely used, that is, different variants of combinations of masses and sizes of moving parts of automation were worked out. , because it is known that even a slight change in the mechanism significantly changes the nature of the firing, for example, a change in the parameters of the bolt spring.If earlier, when creating the first AK, designers relied on their intuition and experience, today modeling allows you to sort through many options and choose the optimal one. I would clean it up, you will torture yourself to pick out the dirt

[Normann]

Because it is extremely rare that someone tries to insert a link to classmates.))))

[Freeman]

Quote: Normann

Because it is extremely rare that someone tries to insert a link to classmates.))))

On "YouTube", it is not always possible to find the desired plot (this one, found only on "OK"). Yes, and with the "copyright" of "YouTube" everything is too "muddy".

[core]

how we love to stain the owl! how many years have I lived but I never cease to be amazed at this peculiarity of my compatriots.

[bk0010]

Quote: core

how we love to stain the owl! how many years have I lived but I never cease to be amazed at this peculiarity of my compatriots.

And you buy yourself a civilian weapon from KK, there will be a good chance to feel the same feelings as those people who scold him.

[-Dmitry-]

And you buy yourself a civilian weapon from KK, there will be a good chance to feel the same feelings as those people who scold him.

I own and hunt with MP-155 for 6 years. I'm happy with the gun. Price quality. For 6 years of ownership, only 2 delays at the very beginning, when I was shooting at -30. Of course, the shutter does not move as smoothly as Benelli or Beretta, but it is reliable and not whimsical.

[2 Level Advisor]

Well, after all, your gun is only formally a Kalash .. Izhevsk does it, they have their own weapons school .. and it was developed long before the plant was included in the KK ..

[-Dmitry-]

Well, after all, your gun is only formally a Kalash .. Izhevsk does it, they have their own weapons school .. and it was developed long before the plant was included in the KK ..

Kalash also makes Izhevsk, actually, only IzhMash, not IzhMekh. And the offer was to purchase the civilian weapon KK, the MP-155 is the civilian weapon of the KK.

[Normann]

Have you ever thought that military and civilian models are completely different weapons

[SPQR]

I agree with you. I bought myself a new Lada in a showroom in Minsk. I came to visit friends in the Russian Federation, all together scolded how I could buy such a g ... ..
My arguments that I left for 4 years and was quite happy with the car were not taken into account)))

[SPQR]

Eh ... we (in the Republic of Bashkortostan) will probably only get to us in 20 years ...
In the meantime, we will still use the USSR reserves ...

[Two]

The toy is good, so that the sofa experts would not be gundels! The work is accurate and unpretentious, there were no refusals. Anyone from our orphanage (Togliatti) will confirm

[89824024836]

The issue of a radical transformation of modern combat automatic weapons can be solved by modernizing the Kalashnikov assault rifle for a caseless shot. The solution to this problem lies in the possibility of creating devices for effective cooling of the barrel and chamber during automatic firing. It is up to the specialists of the Kalashnikov concern, who are delaying the solution of this problem.

[Yrec]

Quote: -Dmitry-

From the machine, the accuracy of both AKM and AK-74 is practically the same, although there are different cartridges. The AK-12 is fundamentally no different.

The sofa doctor of technical sciences is immediately visible

There are many fundamental differences - a long sighting line, this cannot be achieved by simple tuning, the KSK is attached differently, which makes it possible to put / remove sighting without constant zeroing, a suspended forend, another gas vent assembly. Or what is your fundamental difference? Then explain to me the fundamental difference between the M-4 and the HC-416 or, for example, SCAR-L?

The sighting line has almost not increased - the front sight has shifted back from the barrel cut, the gas assembly is the same, the forend is suspended - there is no such thing. The receiver cover with Picatinny rail is included in the "Bodykit" kit for the AK-74.

[Drago]

AK-12 failure. Recently, they showed a special forces competition in Zvezda in Siberia.
They have AKS, and with a wooden forend.

[Drago]

https://tvzvezda.ru/news/2021415255-FpJW8.html
The opening ceremony of the international stage of ski mountaineering competitions "Sayan March-2021" in the framework of ARMI-2021 was held in the Western Sayan mountains
Not a single AK 12, all with AKS.

[AKS-U]

Yesterday. Why do you need fresh. Eat the day before yesterday.

[AKS-U]

Without the backlog left by the "country of galoshes," today's Russia will die.

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Trophy ammunition is used only by sabotage groups.

[vadivm59]

when I read critical articles that the AK-74 and others are not accurate enough when firing in bursts, chronicles from the Middle East, Africa, Syria always come to mind as local warriors beat in bursts, raising their AK over the parapet with outstretched arms. "Arab shooting". They are poor and do not know that such shooting is not very accurate from the AK.)))

[Understanding]

I think here it is necessary to argue not about the degree of novelty of the design, but about how right the Chinese comrades are in extolling the improvement of the AK as a factor that significantly increased the combat capability of our legendary one.

[Bogatyrev]

The rifle in the modern world is no longer so much a weapon that gives advantages, but rather an object of close self-defense of the military during hostilities.
The Americans, for example, have a lot of complaints about the M4, but they are in no hurry to change it, because this does not affect anything.
Therefore, they did the right thing, that at this stage they did not make significant changes to the AK design, limiting themselves to light ergonomics and gadgets.
The real weapon of the battlefield of the future will appear when infantry units can use it to hit a wide range of targets and solve tactical tasks of a much larger scale.
For example, hitting drones, armored vehicles, destroying structures, conducting accurate and effective fire on manpower for kilometers and from a closed position.

[Evgeny Negulyaev]

What have you changed? USM, barrel locking system, piston stroke, or clearances? Why did it become more accurate? What are the fundamental changes since 1946, not counting the re-crimped sleeve from 7,62x39.
An adjustable stock, Picatinny rails and a grip in which the oiler is hidden? This is all that KB is capable of.
Lada sedan eggplant! Some citizens also consider the understated Priora to be a masterpiece of the automobile industry.

[av58]

I do not understand this hysteria about the allegedly low accuracy of fire from the AK-74 / AKM. Singles are generally quite at the level of themselves, and in queues - exactly what you need. What is the easiest way to hit the target in close combat: from a sniper rifle or from a shotgun with buckshot?