Status and prospects of the "Surrogate" project

Several years ago, the Rubin Central Design Bureau first disclosed information about its new Surrogate project. It provided for the creation of an unmanned underwater vehicle capable of conducting exercises fleet and solve other problems. In the future, the work continued, and recently it became known about the completion of their next stage. Similar news suggest that soon "Surrogate" will leave the design stage and get to production.

Initiative development

For the first time, they spoke about the Surrogate project in December 2016. By that time, the Rubin Central Design Bureau managed to carry out preliminary work and formed an approximate appearance of the future underwater vehicle. The concept was presented to the command of the navy, and consultations were held on the need for such a development and ways of its development, taking into account the needs of a potential customer.

Already in 2016, the Rubin Central Design Bureau revealed the main technical features of the Surrogate and the range of tasks to be solved. The alleged appearance of such a device was also published. It is curious that in the future all these data were repeatedly confirmed and were not subjected to significant adjustments.

In February 2019, the domestic media reported on the Navy's plans to create and supply underwater vehicles capable of performing the functions of targets and ensuring the conduct of exercises. Any details of such plans at that time were not specified. However, this news made me recall previous reports about the Surrogate project.

"Surrogate" at sea. Graphics CDB "Rubin"

In June 2020, the management of the Rubin Central Design Bureau again spoke about the Surrogate. By this time, the bureau completed its research work. The results of such research were sent to the specialized organizations of the Ministry of Defense for evaluation. Necessary consultations have started. At the same time, it was recalled that the research was carried out on an initiative basis.

The latest news about the "Surrogate" refers to the first days of September this year. RIA Novosti quoted an unnamed representative of the Rubin Central Design Bureau as saying that a new type of underwater vehicle was "designed in Russia." At the same time, it is argued for the first time that the main capabilities of the "Surrogate" are necessary "to deceive the enemy." Previously, it was only about conducting exercises.

Appearance and capabilities

According to published materials, the unmanned vehicle "Surrogate" looks like a small submarine. Product length - approx. 17 m; displacement, depending on the installed equipment, from 40 to 60 tons. It is envisaged to use a traditional cylindrical hull with a set of tail rudders and a propeller in an annular channel. For additional devices there are mounts on the sides of the hull and the towed device.

It is proposed to equip the device with an electric power plant based on lithium-ion batteries. The estimated maximum speed under water will reach 24 knots. The economic speed is 5 knots, which will allow you to cover up to 600 miles. Diving depth - up to 600 m.When using the target equipment, the duration of the swim will be 15-16 hours.

The principles of operation of the underwater vehicle during exercises. Graphics CDB "Rubin"

The "surrogate" should receive a modern autonomous control system. It should ensure the passage along a given route and the performance of other tasks, taking into account the situation and emerging situations. The remote control mode, apparently, is absent or cannot be used in the main modes of operation.

The Surrogate project involves the use of a modular replaceable payload. Depending on the tasks at hand, the device will be able to carry certain devices, on board or in tow. The stations for the simulation of physical fields are considered as the main load. With their help, the device will reproduce the noise and electromagnetic field of a full-size submarine of one type or another.

The types and characteristics of the payload have not yet been specified. However, it was reported that such devices will be able to create the physical fields of diesel-electric and nuclear submarines. Probably, they will provide for the possibility of imitating domestic and foreign ships of different projects.

The first reports about the "Surrogate" mentioned the possibility of using other equipment. So, with the help of hydroacoustic and other devices, the underwater vehicle will be able to conduct reconnaissance or draw up maps of the area. Preparation for such an operation will be reduced mainly to a simple replacement of the target equipment.

Large anti-submarine ship pr. 1155.1 "Admiral Chabanenko". In the future, the serial "Surrogate" may become his conditional goal. US Navy photo

Benefits and opportunities

According to the main idea of ​​the project, the device "Surrogate" should ensure the conduct of exercises of the fleet on anti-submarine defense. Such a product will have to imitate a full-size submarine of a conventional enemy. It will be able to move at depth and perform maneuvers characteristic of a real target. In addition, due to additional devices, the small device will unmask itself at the same level as the submarine.

The development organization believes that the unmanned target simulator has a number of important advantages and can positively influence the organization of naval exercises. First of all, they boil down to the technical features of such an underwater vehicle. Having the required characteristics and capabilities, it will be easier and cheaper to manufacture and operate a full-fledged submarine.

Currently, the role of a mock enemy in an ASW exercise is assigned to the crews of real diesel-electric submarines and nuclear submarines. They have to be removed from duty, which complicates the organization of events. The unmanned "Surrogate", in contrast to them, will be constantly ready for exercises, and its use will not even lead to a temporary reduction in the potential of the submarine forces. However, such exercises are needed not only by PLOs, but also by submarine crews - they practice covert movement and combat work.

Another advantage is the fundamental possibility of "replacing" submarines of any type. The "Surrogate" equipment can be configured to simulate foreign submarines of current and promising types, which will significantly increase the effectiveness of anti-submarines preparation.

Il-38N is another potential "hunter" for target imitators. Photo of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

It is reported that the "Surrogate" can carry not only imitation, but also research or reconnaissance equipment. Its prospects in this context completely depend on the carrying capacity and the list of compatible devices. At the same time, scientific or reconnaissance missions are unlikely to be the main ones. For such purposes, you can use any other underwater vehicles of existing or prospective types. The "surrogate" should be entrusted with what it is most effective at.

Recent reports mention the possibility of "deceiving" enemy submarines. Indeed, the key abilities of the "Surrogate" can be used not only in exercises, but also in real combat operations. Simple and inexpensive underwater vehicles can divert the attention of the enemy's submarine and surface ASW assets, helping the submarines to accomplish their assigned tasks.

By customer's decision

Over the past few years, "Surrogate" has come a long way from a general concept to research and development and design. During the work, the Rubin Central Design Bureau kept in touch with the Navy and took into account its views. Now the finished documentation for the new project has been transferred to the specialized organizations of the Ministry of Defense, which will have to study it. Based on the results of the analysis, the value of the Surrogate for the fleet and the need to continue work will be determined.

The prospects for the project are still uncertain. The "Surrogate" was developed on an initiative basis and without an order from the Navy, although taking into account its opinion. These circumstances allow counting on the interest from the Ministry of Defense, which will later result in the launch of the series and adoption. At the same time, the latest news about the completion of the design gives reason to believe that the fate of the new project will be decided in the very near future.

Comments

[Kuz]

The idea is good and necessary. Maybe ASW exercises will become more frequent ...

[Podvodnik]

The idea is good and necessary. Maybe ASW exercises will become more frequent ...

Needed for what? PLO testing? Then the PLO surrogate will be. The shnyaga is complete. Justification in the form of the lack of distraction of the submariners from the main tasks is FULL nonsense. And what else should submariners do in peacetime? Yes, combat training at sea! IN THE SEA! And to work out against surface watermen "wall to wall". And the more the better. Only at sea, working against real targets, will sailors become sailors. Otherwise, nothing good will happen.

Another cut of the dough. Just imagine the "torpedoes" that will have to deliver this shnyaga to the exercise site, lower 50 tons overboard, and then lift it back. A slap slightly on the superstructure? Excitement at sea can be.
Cut, definitely!

[K298rtm]

What kind of cut?
It is written in Russian - on a proactive basis. That is, for the money earned by hard work (from the use of the Oceanarium and the Neptune business center in the commercial interests), the money is created so much needed by the fleet (but what is there for the Fleet - the whole country) apparatus. Definitely good fellows.

[Shopping Mall]

Quote: Podvodnik

... Another cut of the dough. Just imagine the "torpedoes" that will have to deliver this shnyaga to the exercise site, lower 50 tons overboard, and then lift it back. A slap slightly on the superstructure? Excitement at sea can be.
Cut, definitely!

The reality is that there is no Delphic Oracle in it. Therefore, finding the right path is possible only through trial and error - by the way, this is how evolution works in nature, through natural selection.

So it is with R&D. A huge part of them are not used, but if they were not done, then the only weapons would still be sticks and stones.

Without knowing the real characteristics of the product and its capabilities, you immediately confidently speak of "cutting".

[Podvodnik]

Not knowing the real characteristics of the product and its capabilities, you immediately confidently talk about "cutting"

I speak because I know what combat training is, how it was conducted, and what results were achieved. Because I went to sea, and was repeatedly witness to ambiguous situations and decisions of the command, which were erroneous due to lack of experience and lack of proper naval practice.
For example, the situation of learning to ride a bike - until you start pedaling yourself, you will not go anywhere.
And it is applicable to the seas - until you personally get into a situation where SEVERAL BIP officers are puzzling over the classification of the target and in the end they are quietly swearing when entering the contact and passing, as the calculations show, ten cables from the target and realizing their miscalculations and errors .... Well, what kind of surrogate will model all this? Yes, no. Only going to sea, real maintenance of technical equipment and taking into account the mistakes made will help here.
Developed at your own expense? Yes, this is not a cut. And at whose expense will the fleet be supplied with this extra headache? And at whose expense to do the delivery vehicles to the exercise site? And the service?

What does the rationale mean "not to distract submariners from combat services?" Before sending them to the BS, you need to learn them! And there is no better school than maritime practice. The personnel must know the capabilities of technology, weapons, their limits. No surrogate can replace this. And if they try to replace, then the skills will be surrogate! Isn't it clear?

[Akuzenka]

In my opinion, there was a similar article a year ago. So the project is still there!

[credo]

Whatever it is, it looks and reads intriguingly.

[Nafanya from the sofa]

The estimated maximum speed under water will reach 24 knots. The economic speed is 5 knots, which will allow you to cover up to 600 miles. Diving depth - up to 600 m.When using the target equipment, the duration of the swim will be 15-16 hours.

Who is excellent with arithmetic, help:
5 knots x 16 hours = 80 miles
24 knots x 16 hours = 384 miles
600 miles: 5 knots = 120 hours
600 miles: 24 knots = 25 hours
600 miles: 16 hours = 37.5 knots
"What, where, when" or do they not teach arithmetic at the Faculty of Journalism?

[Avior]

You may have missed a few points.
Firstly, up to 600 is not 600.
Second

When using the target equipment, the duration of the swim

It is possible that up to 600 miles is without target equipment. And with the target, the range decreases, as does the operating time.
The problem, perhaps, is not in arithmetic, it is just that such data are often presented in such a way as to mislead the reader, without deceiving him directly.
After all, no one wrote that he was capable of walking 16 miles in 600 hours with the target equipment, did they?
Written to make the reader think so.

[Nafanya from the sofa]

Firstly, up to 600 is not 600.

Do you also think 80 miles is "up to 600"?
I am, unfortunately, a retrograde. That's why

[Avior]

Formally, 80 miles is up to 600, with arithmetic everything is fine.
And the fact that with the target equipment 16 hours, why not?
They just did not write that up to 600 is without target equipment, empty.
Look carefully - nowhere is it written that with the target equipment it is 600 capable of passing.

[Nafanya from the sofa]

Formally, 80 miles is up to 600, with arithmetic everything is fine.

Totally agree with you. But on one condition: all 600 miles must sail exclusively with a "swift jack".

[D16]

Who is excellent with arithmetic, help

In principle, everything is correct and logical.
1-15 hours working time when using target equipment... It eats electricity, Because so few miles.
2. At 24 nodes, it will not pass 16 hours. The batteries will run out. This is the maximum speed in the short run.
3. The only numbers, most likely true, but without the target equipment, what's the use?
4. At 24 knots he will not cover 600 miles.
5. When using the target equipment (16 hours), which also eats electricity, there is no talk of any 600 miles.
So the arithmetic is fine. You need to pay attention to all sorts of little things and understatements .

[Avior]

In all fairness, the difference between 80 miles with the target equipment and 600 without it - that is, 7-8 times - casts doubt on the figure of 600.
All the same, a large consumption of energy is precisely for movement.

[D16]

Is not a fact. Who said that with the target equipment, this simulator would run for 16 hours at 5 knots?
"the device will be able to carry certain devices, on board or in tow." (c)

[Avior]

5 knots is indicated as an economic move, that is, it assumes the maximum range
16 hours - as the maximum time with equipment

[D16]

This is true. Equipment on board or in tow. It spoils hydrodynamics and consumes electricity. And at the same time .

[Akuzenka]

"What, where, when" or do they not teach arithmetic at the Faculty of Journalism?

At the Faculty of Journalism they teach to hang noodles on the ears. And 4 arithmetic operations are redundant for them.

[Nikolaevich I]

And what? You can "Surrogate" and into a "trap-destroyer" submarine ,, convert ,,! The American submarine will chase after a "surrogate", mistaking it for a Russian submarine, with bad thoughts: "Oh, I’ll hit it ...!" that's all, that's all ... the song is over! "

[Podvodnik]

And the "Surrogate" will leave "kakaшky" (torpedo mine) along the way

What for? How does "he" know about the presence of an enemy plane? There are no detection tools. And even if there were, then in this size they are useless.
Not applicable for conventional mining. Mines have nowhere to "stick".

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Podvodnik

how "he" learns about the presence of an enemy plane

Are you serious ? Have you read the article? And then something doesn't look like ... Mdaaa ...! It turns out that you and my comment did not understand ... I'm sorry ...

[Old ensign]

The name Surrogate is stupid. We need to rename.

[UA3QHP]

Well this is how I understand the name of OCD. And then the real name will be.

[Kushka]

[quote = Avior] You may have missed a few points
Firstly, up to 600 is not 600.
[quote] Subscriber To the Operator - I have a problem with the PIN code! - And which one do you enter? - Four 0's and four 1. - So four 0's, or four 1's? - And what's the difference, all the same, after all, there are four stars!

[Motivatornick]

the same can be used as an inflatable tank on the ground)

[Podvodnik]

simple and not expensive

Come on, thanks ....
Not very expensive.
Want to improve your anti-submarine skills? Have you asked the sailors what they need for this? No? And why fence a garden? If you know this like pigs in oranges?
If you want to help, build a COMPLEX trainer (s) like "Alder" (there was one in Paldiski). Load there the crews of surface watermen, submariners, flyers and other involved and work them out there until you lose consciousness! Let them fight against each other, work out the interaction ... Then there will be a sense.

[grumbler]

Of course, the request must be from the seafarers themselves. But, from our experience of KSA developers (in another area), we know that end operators often do not even know WHAT we can and do not always understand HOW to use it. In theory, military research institutes should be engaged in the collection and generalization of such information and the development of application methods - this is their job. But, nothing can be done, the level of such applied research institutes has fallen a lot, judging by their field. Therefore, these tasks of "popularization" have to be taken on by the Developers - to delve into the subject area themselves, to explain to the Operator that he will win. And only in the process of testing and experimental operation they "get a taste", give us sensible comments and recommendations, and begin to creatively use the tools that we give them. But this is a complex, conflicting and very costly process (the XNUMXst century is in the yard - I want more scientifically grounded, systemic engineering approaches on the part of the Customer / Operator and less "scientific poke method").

While not denying the need for exercises with the launch of ships to the sea for the "game of cat and mouse", it must be admitted that it is very expensive. And training must be conducted constantly.
And how ours will realistically simulate the parameters of the enemy's NK and submarine - their dimensions and shape, speed, dynamics of movement and accompanying physical. fields? So our sailors will only learn to hunt for each other? Such systems will make it possible to more realistically reproduce the "portraits" of enemy systems, incorporating data obtained by intelligence into them.

This device is a "mobile platform". It can be used for teaching. They will be useful when testing our new ships and systems, when developing new tactics. They can work as a mobile component of a distributed surveillance system (carry GAS, magnetometers, photo detectors, etc.) and be a false target for enemy surveillance equipment.

It seems to me even more promising to use for these purposes a "swarm" (here it is more appropriate to say "a jamb") of underwater unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). By coordinating maneuvering individually / in groups, changing its acoustic visibility parameters, such a jamb will be able to simulate the movement of a group of NK, submarines, "portraits" of the operation of their GAS, launches of torpedoes and missiles, as well as various sea noises, etc. the dynamics of visibility does not depend on the physical speed of the UAV, but only on the "flickering garland" mode, then the swarm can simulate both the movement of very fast and maneuverable objects, and spatially extended ones).

But it is imperative to design application system - so that, in addition to the device itself, modular programmable signal sources / receivers and tools for collecting and analyzing intelligence data and building a signal model were created -> Entering an exercise into a training / testing CSA -> Loading the necessary signals into a simulator -> Performing an exercise -> Collecting and analyzing exercise / test performance data. It's even harder than the host itself!

Like the concept. It all depends on the usefulness and selling price.

[Podvodnik]

Like the concept. It all depends on

I agree, I like it. And you are right to notice a lot. But!
The batteries are too small for what you are describing, it is impossible to keep in touch all the time, it is impossible to manage the swarm, as you suggest, in this case. How to deliver this swarm to the place of application and release it promptly?
I agree that the fleet itself does not always say what it needs. It requires first justification, modeling, calculations, tactics and interaction with science and industry. For this, people need competent, personnel selection is normal. And in the case of a surrogate, there is an object, but there are no thoughts on its application. What's the use of fantasizing without calculations?
There is a saying about the saddle. It's cool, but does the cow need it?

[Podvodnik]

It's even harder than the host itself!

It is not only more difficult, it is also several times more expensive.

[grumbler]

I share your skepticism. It would be desirable to ask "cow". That is why he paid a lot of attention to the role of methodological support on the part of military research institutes (without this, there is a great risk of spending considerable funds that can be spent on less exotic, but no less (or even more) important tasks: the construction and modernization of ships, training, coastal support and life of sailors).

It is not only more difficult, it is also several times more expensive.

Absolutely right. Therefore, I would like to see a comprehensive scientifically worked out program that comes from the promising needs of seafarers. And already for it to create equipment and media.

But, on the other hand, such bold research projects are needed. Without them, we will lag behind in this promising area (the trend towards robotization is obvious). Before diving into swarms (yes, as long as this is fantastic), you need to get big in less ambitious programs like this one. To work out the questions that you paid attention to: energy, communications, autonomy and "How to deliver this swarm to the place of application and release it promptly?"

[Podvodnik]

Therefore, I would like to see a comprehensive scientifically developed program

Your thoughts, but who needs to be in the ears.

Honestly, during the service, although it was a long time ago, I got the impression that no one fucking (if it is censored) does not need a damn thing.
And when you try to do something right, you often hear in your face: "What do you need more than anyone else?" This phrase is "like" most of all. Just a motto of some kind.

Again we ran into the famous phrase of a famous person: "Cadres decide everything!"

[Podvodnik]

Without them, we will lag behind in this promising area.

First you need to decide how promising it is in general. How much does this "saddle" need a "cow", and will it not be a yoke in every sense. This is solved by not very complicated modeling and calculations: they made, delivered, where to store, who serves, how to deliver there, how to deliver back, how to recharge, how to ensure navigational safety, how to use, and whether the power reserve is not small, how to reflash the program, WHERE TAKE THE BASE OF PHYSICAL FIELDS of partners, train teachers, train personnel, spare parts and accessories again. Take a calculator and fold it down. Whistle and say: "What the hell is it for?"

[grumbler]

First you need to decide how promising it is in general.

Without this, no serious program should be started. So, naval sailors (and especially your colleagues, submariners and PLO-Schniki) often complain about the depressing situation of naval aviation. Perhaps, at this stage, the restoration of naval aviation is more important? Understand and count nadot, but this is the business of your military science.

WHERE TO TAKE THE BASE OF PHYSICAL FIELDS of partners, train teachers, train personnel, spare parts and accessories again.

It is hard to imagine that the Navy does not have a centralized database of characteristics and physical fields of ships, coasts, etc. There is also intelligence (GRU or whatever it is called now), "Hydrographic Service of the Navy"; for the "Main Directorate of Deep-Sea Research of the Ministry of Defense" (GUGI), all sorts of top-secret "loshariks" in the depths of the sea also obviously do not just work; the fleet is on duty / exercises, the PLO is working, there is a certain GAS network; in the Research Institute of Krylov and TsAGI there are departments of physical. fields; our Arctic scientific ice stations also listen to the sea. In theory, all this information should be brought together somewhere, generalized. And be issued in the form of "portraits" for uploading to the KSA / ACS of observation and guidance? (or is everything "so secret" that a certain scientific research institute of the MO / FGUP "sits on these data" and is inaccessible to anyone? - then there is a guard. I hope this is not so)

But, even if there is no such bank yet, then conducting research and development work should identify the problem and push towards a solution. This will be a useful organizational and technical result.

Or you asked the question above "How to deliver this swarm to the place of application and release it promptly?" Obviously "surrogates" (especially with an eye on "swarms") should be adapted for delivery to NK, submarines (in standard torpedo tubes, missile launchers and in outer container-fairings), airplanes and helicopters. Or specialized PL-transporters for the delivery and maintenance of "jambs". We need unified "container" systems for transporting and servicing this entire economy.
(i.e. they need to be designed or before / re-equip the existing NK and PL - these are costs, costs)

There are a lot of questions. For Developers, one of the main outputs of such research should be rationale ("on fig goat button accordion?") and mapped process chains and Industry Standards (MIL-SPEC), reflecting the vision of the Customers / Operators themselves of their subject area. Clearly expressed in easy-to-understand tables, graphs, formulas and algorithms for engineers. Otherwise it is very difficult for us to work.

... Take a calculator and fold it. Whistle and say: "What the hell is it for?"

Or will it turn out that the total military-economic effect, on the contrary, is great and it makes sense to fence a vegetable garden? The general trend for robotization is clearly looming, it is necessary to conduct development. But, without the excessive "innovative itch" (after all, this is not a nuclear missile weapon that turned everything upside down).

[Podvodnik]

In theory, all this information should be reduced somewhere

Of course it should. But I could not use it.
Hearing from the acoustics "single-shaft seven-blade icebreaker" all my actions according to the classification were "none". The entire "animal division" could never (in my service) use this data to classify targets (to determine a specific type of submarine, for example). But who, if not this division, needed such data. These very "portraits" had nothing to process. The reason is banal: "leopards" were developed at a time when the 133 series of microcircuits was for happiness, and the long-term memory was built on ferrite rings with manual firmware. The specialists assigned to the autonomous system plugged their computer into a regular headphone jack on the "Skat" and on their own "tricky" something. Even so ...

[grumbler]

Depressing. But let's hope that in comparison with the time of your service, the situation is gradually improving.
And our dialogue is a good illustration of what can be achieved even with such a short and superficial discussion - after digging once or twice, we entered an important area of ​​work - the creation of a UNIFIED BANK OF PHYSICS. FIELDS as a system for collecting, analyzing, storing and communicating relevant data to all interested users (for training crews, setting up observation and target designation equipment, for AS / ACS / CSA developers and applied science for deeper research). As a result, we will get a good basis for increasing the efficiency of the fleet and for the conscious implementation of such platforms as "surrogate".
And thanks for your clarification.

[Curious Katya]

But it is interesting to deceive a real enemy by imitating our submarine, while the real submarine is doing completely different things, can this thing?

[75 Sergey]

Well, to divert attention from the main forces will do.