Moon Race: Played Enough Story Finale

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Judging by the situation, Roskosmos once again, if not disgraced (in fact, disgraced), then caused surprise. I just want to ask: what was it?

And it was this: the general director of the Samara Rocket and Space Center "Progress" Dmitry Baranov said that work on the design of a super-heavy lunar rocket codenamed "Yenisei" had been stopped.



More precisely, they were discontinued at the technical design stage. Of course, as Baranov said, the center will be able to continue what it has begun, provided the will of Roskosmos.

But, apparently, it won't. Played enough.

One and a half billion rubles and 4 years of work - that's all. In October-November of this year, the technical design was supposed to be completed, and here is such an unexpected (in fact, not very) final. Thanks to everybody, you're free. One and a half billion will evaporate somewhere.

One month before the end of the work period.

It is very difficult to say what was worked out there and whether it was worked out at all, but already last year it became clear that something went wrong.

This is when in December last year our unfading general director of Roscosmos Dmitry Rogozin on his Facebook page (we have no other platforms for serious things) began to speculate that the oxygen-kerosene pair was not right anymore, we had to switch to methane. Why, the Americans fly, which means that we also need to stay “in the air”.

That is, all developments in oxygen and kerosene should be put aside in an amicable way and switched to methane-oxygen.

Nothing at all.

On the one hand, the fact that they left “heptyl” is, as it were, an achievement. A pair of asymmetric dimethylhydrazine (aka "heptyl") and nitrogen tetroxide had some advantages, but the fact that it is dangerous not only for the environment, but also for the operating personnel is a fact.

So the use of a pair of "oxygen-kerosene" is already an achievement. And now - methane ... And incomprehensible shuffling began.

In January 2021, the Space Council of the Russian Academy of Sciences recommended postponing the creation of a super-heavy rocket. In February, Baranov said that work was suspended, as some kind of correction of the missile's appearance was required. There was talk about the need to lengthen the rocket body.

Well, here is, in fact, the finale. Work on the creation of a super-heavy launch vehicle has been completely discontinued. According to some, the switch to methane is Rogozin's personal initiative.

Decent and logical result.

Of course, Baranov said optimistically that he could create a methane-fueled rocket in the center he runs. Or they may not. The launch of Luna-25 has also been postponed to the middle of next year. Rogozin, telling Putin the tale that the Oryol spacecraft is being tested, for some reason showed not the ship and the tests, but a mock-up.

In general, everything is as usual.

Meanwhile, many of our state-patriotic media recently shed bitter tears of sympathy over the fact that the flight to the moon will not take place in 2024. Most likely 2025. Spacesuits are not ready. They calculated how much money the Americans spent on the development of a new lunar spacesuit, criticized it.

The problem is that the Americans are really working on their lunar return. And they will have a spacesuit. They will have a ship. They will have a booster rocket. After several years of talking about trampolines, several years of outright mockery, Musk's ships did not just fly, they broke the market. And they will, apparently, fly further. Including the moon.

But what will happen in Russia, except for the next round of "budget development", I cannot say yet.

But unlike the United States, we do not have a super-heavy rocket. And at such a pace, even a layout is not expected for the next 10 years. There is no lunar ship. No moonsuit. Yes, criticizing Americans is easy. Let's see how it will turn out (if necessary) to improve the Soviet lunar spacesuit "Krechet".

Actually, there is nothing. There is only an irrepressible desire to criticize the American program. Literally, actually, starting from the fact that half a century ago we were the first.

The key word is "were". And where tomorrow or the day after tomorrow Russia can once again be the first, it is difficult to imagine.

But today, as soon as possible, the topic of the fact that the Americans have not been on the moon is being exaggerated. That all this is a staging, filmed in the pavilions of Hollywood. Well, everyone has read all this conspiracy theories on a given topic more than once. The Americans were not on the moon, because they could not be there a priori ahead of the Russians. And so on, ad infinitum.

Here I would like to quote the opinion of a very interesting person. Konstantin Petrovich Feoktistov, pilot-cosmonaut of the USSR, Hero of the Soviet Union. He made his only flight on the multi-seat ship "Voskhod", in the creation of which he was directly involved.


Unfortunately, Konstantin Petrovich left us in 2009, but in 2000 left his work “The Trajectory of Life. between yesterday and tomorrow. " Calm and confident story about the events of those years.

Naturally, in his book, Konstantin Petrovich also touched on the issue of hoaxes. Even then, 20 years ago, this question excited many. So were the Americans really on the moon, or is it a fiction and a beautiful shoot?

“As for publications about the possibility of staging expeditions to the moon, this is a well-known literary and political device that has been used many times before. And after Gagarin's flight, some American journalists expressed an opinion about a possible hoax.

But official circles (government, NASA) did not make such statements. And it's clear why. They always had good intelligence, they probably knew that we were intensively working on spacecraft, that in February 1961 three ships were sent to the Tyura-Tama test site. And most importantly, they listened to conversations on Earth's radiotelephone with Gagarin, could record signals transmitted to the ship, telemetric information transmitted from the ship to Earth, and, possibly, even a television image of Gagarin transmitted to ground points. So the Americans knew that Gagarin had actually made the flight, and behaved quite correctly.

And when Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins flew to the moon, our receiving radio equipment received signals from the Apollo 11 board, conversations, a television picture about the exit to the lunar surface.

Arranging such a hoax is probably no less difficult than a real expedition. To do this, it would be necessary to land a television transponder on the lunar surface in advance and check its operation (with transmission to Earth), again in advance.

And on the days of the imitation of the expedition, it was necessary to send a radio relay to the Moon to simulate the Apollo's radio communication with the Earth on the flight path to the Moon. And they did not hide the scale of work on "Apollo".

And what they showed me in Houston in 1969 (Control Center, stands, laboratories), factories in Los Angeles for the manufacture of Apollo ships and the descent vehicles that returned to Earth, according to this logic, should have been an imitation ?! Too complicated and too funny. "


The opinion of a great man. A direct participant in the events of those years. By the way, he also gives an answer to the question why they did not fly to the moon for so long afterwards.

There was no sense.

The lunar program itself was premature. As well as Gagarin's flight. Some had to prove the superiority of the socialist system, others - the capitalist. On the lunar expeditions, the Americans proved theirs and calmed down. Expeditions lost their meaning, because everything, they left prints, brought the soil. It was simply technically impossible to get more from the Moon at that time.

Today, when the main participants in the space program have no reason to fly “ahead of the rest of the planet,” work is not progressing so rapidly. And the Americans' delays are also understandable. They no longer need to fly and "mark" the moon. They need to come back. And to do this tomorrow will be much more difficult than yesterday, precisely because they have already been on the moon.

And ours, too, can not be in a hurry. Especially in terms of the conquest of the Moon, Mars, Venus, Saturn, asteroids. We were already ahead of us there. Therefore, speed is not so important. It is more important, perhaps, not to make empty promises that no one is obviously going to keep.

In general, what are space flights? First of all, it is research and progress. Development of scientific and technical thought.

Let's see what the Americans got as a result of their lunar program?


1. Used the hydrogen-oxygen engine of the second stage of the Saturn-5 launch vehicle. It turned out that the hydrogen-oxygen pair is almost one and a half times more effective than the kerosene-oxygen pair. True, and more dangerous in terms of an explosion.

2. The descent vehicle in which the astronauts returned to Earth. More precisely, its thermal protection. After all, the lunar vehicles returned back with a second space speed, greater than the orbital speed, 11 km / s. Accordingly, the impacts from the atmosphere were higher temperature. The developments in lunar spacecraft became the basis for the defense of the Space Shuttle program.

3. System of landing on the moon. Vertical landing using rocket engines in the absence of atmosphere for a module with a particularly fragile cargo - a person.

4. Control system for lunar vehicles. The lander was supposed to take off, approach the orbital module, dock and return to Earth. Given the distance, it was a very decent job.

5. Hydrogen-oxygen generators for electricity generation.

The following points can be questioned.

6. A set of instruments that brought information about what is happening on the surface of the Moon and below it. It is possible that this information was very important, but automatic stations could also cope with the task of delivering instruments.

7. The experience of movement by a person on foot and in a vehicle has been gained. In general, the value of these experiments can also be questioned.

In general, political games. In the sense that the result was more political than materialized, you must agree.

Now, 50 years later, everything can be started almost from scratch, because in reality, everything that was done by the Americans in the framework of the lunar program was done for political purposes.

What is the point here for Russia to be included, having nothing, is not entirely clear. It is clear that we will not be able to "catch up and overtake" the United States and China. The recent torment around the Science module has shown this. But with the space film set for the first channel, it is generally a separate conversation.

In fact, apart from the unfounded (as usual, however) Rogozin's statements about what we will have, we have nothing today. And the Russian lunar program is nothing more than a fairy tale for those who fervently wish to believe in it.

There will be no gardens on the moon until Russia has a launch vehicle, an interplanetary ship and a lunar spacesuit. And while these three components really do not exist, there is no point in talking about flights to the moon.

First, these components of a real lunar program must be created not in words, but in deeds.

In the meantime, you can entertain yourself with theories that everything we know about flights to the moon is a Hollywood fake. It is very exciting and exciting. This flatters the pride a little, especially for those who are stuck in the 60s of the last century, when two great countries came together in a space race.

By the way, it's a pretty good way to compete. Much better than a race to improve the quality and increase the quantity of nuclear charges.

But those were two really great countries.

Today, of course, one can support conspiracy theorists who believe that there was nothing on the moon. That all this is shooting in pavilions and photomontages. This very well supports the pride of those who understand that Russia's success in space exploration is approaching zero.

Orbital transport in ancient spaceships is not a success.

But what to do with the images, which fixed reflectors, cameras, seismographs, the lower part of the Apollo 11 lunar module?


It is clear that all American photographs are montage, drawings, and fake. But I'm generally talking about Indian people. On the automatic interplanetary station "Chandrayaan-2" the Indians have the longest-range camera around the moon. And the Indians, in order to check the operation of the camera, “walked” it through already known places, filmed by the Americans. It's okay to have something to compare with.

Of course, you can also accuse the Indians of counterfeiting to please the Americans. No problem. But then, in general, it already turns out some kind of world conspiracy.

In general, it is sad to observe and once again criticize the "successes" of Russian cosmonautics. Precisely because there are many words, but few successes. More precisely, not at all.

Sometimes there is such a strange feeling that some kind of confusion is going on in Roskosmos. Nobody really understands what needs to be done, but all together imitate a sort of Brownian motion. So that others can see that "the process has begun."

Projects are voiced, huge amounts of money are spent on frankly incomprehensible goals. But in reality - nothing. Orbital taxi. Well, at least we are still displaying satellites.

In general, the final stories may not be entirely optimistic even for the most inveterate optimists. Russia will shoot some kind of "film" in orbit for the first channel, sacrificing its last space module for this, and that's it. A curtain. The final.

Apple trees on Mars and plums on the Moon will of course bloom. But I'm afraid not in the Russian version. And all that will remain for us is once a year, around April 12, to pompously blurt out the theme that "we were the first."

But who will care about this in twenty years? Certainly not the Americans and the Chinese, who will plow with might and main in the lunar mines, enriching their countries.
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  1. +30
    17 September 2021
    Sometimes there is such a strange feeling that some kind of confusion is going on in Roskosmos. Nobody really understands what needs to be done, but all together imitate a sort of Brownian motion. So that others can see that "the process has begun."

    Novel! That's right!
    Contagion - the ball is over, the candle has gone out ...

    The main thing here:
    One and a half billion rubles and 4 years of work - that's all.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. +16
        17 September 2021
        It was perfectly clear that there would be no disposable kerosene superheavy, as it is now perfectly clear that there will be no methane refillable superheavy. Nevertheless, the choice of methane many times is correct in itself, it should be noted, so that later there would be no pretensions "you don't like anything, you won't please you with anything, and you don't like kerosene, and you don't like methane".
        1. -8
          17 September 2021
          as it is now perfectly clear that there will be no reusable methane superheavy - Will and it is created according to the components the same RD 0169 for Amur LNG as an element of the first stage for the Yenisei and the work was suspended and not canceled.
          “A super-heavy rocket will cost colossal money, the program itself will be extremely expensive. the latest technologies, "- said the head of Roskosmos.

          On February 10, the head of the Progress Rocket and Space Center, Dmitry Baranov, said that the development of the Yenisei rocket, which was created for the lunar program, had been suspended, and the designers were awaiting a decision to change its appearance.

          "It is possible to correct its appearance. Now this issue has not yet been fully resolved, so the development is now paused. We are ready to continue working after the appropriate decision is made. I think this is a matter of several months, I would say, before the middle of this year, "Baranov told reporters.

          On February 15, Rogozin announced that the new concept of the super-heavy lunar rocket Yenisei will be presented within three to four months. "And the decision is quite logical given modern trends in reusability - we are waiting for the first flight of the Amur LNG rocket - it will fly and Yenisei.
          1. +13
            17 September 2021
            Unfortunately, to make a super-heavy reusable rocket, it is not enough just for Roscosmos to say that the work has not been stopped, and that it will be done on the basis of something there.
            1. +3
              18 September 2021
              everything is simple - the development of missiles and engines is a very long thing, but on topvar they think that they can solve all the problems in a week ... By the way, nobody refused from the Angara, so the first launches and further ones until the Yenisei is ready will be carried out by a heavy Hangara .. There is no sense to be the first - you need to go slowly, rightly and go thoroughly
          2. +20
            17 September 2021
            It is gratifying that you have quoted to us the revelations of Mr. Rogozin.
            It’s a pity that we didn’t draw the right conclusions from this interview. And they are like that.
            Composite tanks are not available. As well as the latest technologies on them, about which Rogozin rants.
            There are no methane engines. The prototype RD-0169 will be ready (if any), at best, only by 2025, Rogozin himself speaks of this.
            There is no experience in creating reusable steps from the word "in general".
            What then are we talking about? That not a damn thing. There is only verbal husk, which should cover the powerlessness of Roscosmos to make superheavy.
            “Technically, we are ready to start building a super-heavy rocket right now,” Rogozin says. Those. haven't started yet? Further. Technically, how is it? Start assembling the first stage? What architecture? With which Central Bank? What XO? What engines? Or is it "technically", in Rogozin's understanding, to finally give birth to at least the concept of superheavy? Or to voice PZ? Start doing EP?
            Does Trampoline Zubdaevich even sometimes ponder the meaning of the words he uttered?
            I remember one notable interview of him. Two quotes from it:
            "1." The equipment has already been purchased - we are making a Soyuz-5 rocket, this equipment can be used to make a super-heavy rocket. "
            2. "We need a new rocket. Amur-LNG is, in fact, a rocket that will replace Soyuz-2, and it will also become a prototype for creating a super-heavy rocket."
            How does it feel? I emphasize - taken from ONE interview with the master of Russian cosmonautics.
            1. +12
              17 September 2021
              Glushko did not leave the methane-oxygen engine. Now the problems)
              1. +30
                17 September 2021
                As already mentioned, we have problems with everything that was not inherited from the USSR.
            2. -9
              17 September 2021
              There are no methane engines. The prototype RD-0169 will be ready (if any), at best, only by 2025, and that the super-heavy should be done and launched according to plan in the 2028 - 2032 region. There is no experience in creating reusable steps from the word "in general". This is just the experience on the Amur LNG and several launches and landings will be enough for testing.
              1. "The equipment has already been purchased - we are making a Soyuz-5 rocket, this equipment can be used to make a super-heavy rocket."
              2. "We need a new rocket. Amur-LNG is, in fact, a rocket that will replace Soyuz-2, and it will also become a prototype for creating a super-heavy rocket."
              How does it feel? I emphasize - taken from ONE interview with the master of Russian cosmonautics. And the Soyuz 5 rocket is already making Amur LNG, they promise to launch Soyuz 2026 only in 5, most likely at the beginning of 2024 it will fly - as they say, wait for 2024 and 2026.
              And these articles of continuous whining from empty to empty of one day are already tired.
              1. +12
                17 September 2021
                Do you know what the fairy tale about the white bull is good for? The fact that it can be told endlessly.
                Wait ... wait ... wait ... wait ... wait ...
                For some reason, the United States and China are not waiting. And they do it. Musk has made a Falcon Heavy for a long time. China throws 5 tons of CZ-25B at LEO without any problems, and CZ-5 / YZ-2 4,5 tons at GSO and 14 tons at GPO, has long decided on the concept of superheavy CZ-9 and rivets it with might and main. And he has no hesitations and throws, and the gray-haired Chinese academics do not rack their brains over the concept. And they do not change it after every rain that has passed on Thursday.
                But the chatter and pouring from empty to empty Roskosmos is really tired of it.
              2. +8
                17 September 2021
                Quote: Vadim237
                And these articles of continuous whining from empty to empty of one day are already tired.

                I once said a long time ago that our lovers of Martian apple trees roll up their lips and begin to understand that the lunar program is of no use to us, which is why they are now gradually suggesting that we will not fly there until the middle of the 21st century. That is why we need to calmly accept such statements, and the spending on the creation of a rocket in the amount of 1,5 billion rubles is not at all the same, because of which we are obliged to tear our hair out. Played enough, and that's enough, it's time to engage in military space ..
                Regarding the statement of the distinguished cosmonaut
                And when Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins flew to the moon, our receiving radio equipment received signals from the Apollo 11 board, conversations, a television picture about the exit to the lunar surface.
                then we can say that he was misled - we did not accept any television picture from the moon, like all other countries of the world, and the shooting from a screen located in Houston was broadcast on the network. And this is a completely different calico, for those who are in the subject ...
                1. +4
                  18 September 2021
                  and the network broadcasted shooting from the screen


                  And here "in the network" and "we did not accept"? Naturally, the picture was transmitted from the moon not at all at the carrier frequencies of household TV (in addition to differing standards in different countries), with the wrong polarization, perhaps even with the wrong standard of lowercase and frame. And it was received by a narrow-beam antenna of special equipment. Then it was displayed on the screen and further around the world. But it was broadcast from the moon. How to fake it? Is that a repeater on the moon and according to the principle "from the Earth, a picture there, and then back." But if you take into account everything else, yes many times, then it is much easier and cheaper to fly to the Moon.
                  1. +2
                    18 September 2021
                    US flights to the moon: http://www.testpilot.ru/espace/bibl/raketostr3/obl.html
                    1. +1
                      18 September 2021
                      Thanks to. A 1973 book published in the USSR ...
                      Guys, we're pygmies compared to that generation. Even in the USA, even in the USSR. Probably there are smart and hardworking guys now both with them and with us. But they are not visible and not heard behind all this operetta antics of show stars from presidents to porn actresses.
                  2. -9
                    18 September 2021
                    Quote: dauria
                    Then it was displayed on the screen and further around the world. But it was broadcast from the moon.

                    The then level of television technology made it possible to immediately broadcast a television signal to the network, but then experts would immediately determine by interference whether the signal from the moon was coming directly, or whether it was being hidden. By the way, the program was broadcast with a delay - why was it foreseen, did you not think?
                    Quote: dauria
                    Is that a repeater on the moon and according to the principle "from the Earth a picture there, and then back."

                    Everything is much simpler - perhaps a weakened signal of the recording of the production from some American transport aircraft was broadcast not far from Parks, and fig what radio intelligence of the world could reveal. The Australians were not allowed to work on American equipment, which means that they had no idea at all where the signals were coming to Parks, nor who was flying a few hundred kilometers from the observatory.
                    Quote: dauria
                    it is much easier and cheaper to fly to the moon.

                    It is not a matter of cost, but of the danger of such a landing and loss of the ship. It was the failure and image losses in the race with the USSR that the Americans were primarily afraid of, which is why they went for a scam.
                  3. ANB
                    -2
                    19 September 2021
                    ... And it was received by a narrow-beam antenna of special equipment. Then it was displayed on the screen and further around the world. But it was broadcast from the moon

                    Oops. And this pours water on the mill of those who disbelieve. Precisely from the moon?
                    In general, it is purple for me, but purely technically, since no one is tracking the signal from the moon, then the beam could come from the neighboring pavilion.
                    1. +2
                      19 September 2021
                      In general, it is purple for me, but purely technically, since no one is tracking the signal from the moon, then the beam could come from the neighboring pavilion.


                      Just the opposite. First, it is very easy to find a direction. Even with a pair of non-directional dipoles. Second, at such distances, with real powers and sensitivity, they simply have to use antennas with high directivity. Mirrors with a diameter of ten meters. Moreover, they must be turned behind the source during the flight and rotation of the Earth. Only the atmosphere can distort the direction of arrival of the wave (phase front). Can you create a mirage over a planet of this magnitude? A couple of bearings and Kat's radio operator failed.
                      1. ANB
                        -2
                        19 September 2021
                        ... First, it is very easy to find a direction.

                        Further text is useful, but not essential.
                        Is the bearing of the signal from the Moon documented and the signal recorded?
                        It doesn't even matter if it could have been deciphered then, now it is possible.
                        If there was a bearing, then all your arguments are correct. Although ... No one disputes flights to the moon and back. The only question is the fact of disembarkation and return of people.
                      2. +2
                        19 September 2021
                        If there was a bearing, then all your arguments are correct.

                        Listen ... Just read the book from the link Edvid gave. It was published by our scientists in Moscow in 73. It is purely technical and covers many aspects of flying. And you will simply be ashamed that we now have Rogozin.

                        I. I. SHUNEYKO
                        MANNERED FLIGHTS TO THE MOON,
                        CONSTRUCTION AND FEATURES
                        SATURN V APOLLO

                        MOSCOW 1973
                        EDITORIAL TEAM
                        ABSTRACT PUBLICATIONS ON ENGINEERING
                        editor-in-chief - Dr. tech. Sciences, Professor V.M. Shestopal
                        Scientific Secretary - Cand. tech. Sciences N.K.Soloviev
                        members of the editorial board: Academician I. I. Artobolevsky,
                        Academician A.I. Tselikov, Dr. tech. Sciences P. N. Agaletskiy,
                        doct. tech. Sciences A. 3. Chulkov, Cand. tech. L. A. Dobrynin,
                        Cand. tech. E.V. Kiyaev, Candidate of Engineering Sciences P. F. Konoplev,
                        Cand. tech. Sciences B. M. Loguntsov, Ph.D. tech. M. I. Mekler,
                        Cand. s.-kh. Sciences N.A.Minkh, Ph.D. tech. Sciences A. T. Mitsevich,
                        Cand. tech. Sciences ND Sazonova, Cand. tech. Sci. Yu. N. Sorokin,
                        Cand. tech. E. V. Sukacheva, Ph.D. tech. Sciences A. G. Fain,
                        Cand. tech. Sci. L. V. Fomin, Cand. tech. Sci. V. 3. Freidberg,
                        Ing. L. N. Vinogradova
                        Issue Results of Science and Technology from the Rocket Engineering series, volume 3, "Manned missions to the moon, the design and characteristics of the Saturn V Apollo" is a review and systematization of works, information about which was published in the VINITI of the USSR Academy of Sciences in 1969-1972.

                        Volume 3 describes the design, weight, flight characteristics, and space flight tests of the Saturn V launch vehicle and Apollo spacecraft. The control systems of the Apollo spacecraft, the principles of aiming the Earth-Moon-Earth flight trajectory, navigation, flight trajectory correction, and methods of emergency return are considered.
            3. 0
              October 17 2021
              In the Russian Federation, there is no cosmodrome for "reusable" - until a coastal cosmodrome appears on Sakhalin or the Kuriles, as in Florida, a reusable cosmodrome is just a dream come true ... the Chinese have already taken care of this) and strangers would not hurt to look closely.
            4. 0
              October 21 2021
              Quote: Cosm22
              It is gratifying that you have quoted to us the revelations of Mr. Rogozin.
              It’s a pity that we didn’t draw the right conclusions from this interview. And they are like that.
              Composite tanks are not available. As well as the latest technologies on them, about which Rogozin rants.


              You write as if all this is Rogozin's fault personally. Let me remind you that Rogozin became the head of Roscosmos in 2018. And he was appointed precisely because he was able to establish at least some order in the East, where under the previous leadership of Roscosmos, chaos, theft and corruption reigned. And all the problems with Russian projects arose not under Rogozin, but long before him. And they are not his fault, but those "competent respected people from the industry" who, having taken high positions instead of working on a COMMON task for the country, immediately began to lobby for corporate interest and redistribute funds to the "home company". It is because of this that we have been throwing from rocket to rocket for more than 20 years, the appearance of the new spacecraft is constantly changing, the programs for the development of components and engines have not been coordinated. This is the BARDAK. This is what the industry has been brought to by "respected specialists" who are trying to get hold of the authorities. It was they, not Rogozin, who exchanged a ruble for the huge legacy of Soviet space.
              And Rogozin ... Well, Rogozin? Will he himself develop a methane engine in 2 years? Or did he design the composite tanks himself?
              The RD-0169 engine is being developed at the Voronezh Chemical Automatics Design Bureau (KBKhA) with 1997 years... Is Rogozin slowing it down all this time?
              Or maybe Rogozin picked up the debts of the Khrunichev center?
              On April 1, 2019, the head of Roscosmos D. Rogozin told the media that the state corporation could not develop promising methane engines for reusable rockets due to the fact that all free money was used to pay off the debts of the Center. Khrunichev. If funds appeared, the methane engine, thanks to the KBKhA developments, could be made in 2-3 years
          3. 0
            25 September 2021
            No wonder. It was constantly lengthening and at first it was circled around on a bicycle. Then I had to go by car. Then it came to the helicopter. But when it was already necessary to fly around on fighters for inspection, just here there was not enough aviation kerosene for a fighter. I had to close the picture.
        2. +12
          17 September 2021
          Absolutely correct point, military_cat.
          What kind of superheavyness can we talk about now, if the Angara has not yet been brought to mind, even in a manned version?
          The emphasis on methane is correct. We cannot make superheavy on it, it is clear, but something can come out of Amur-LNG. Today, this is perhaps the most promising option.
          1. +9
            17 September 2021
            I have big doubts what Amur-LNG will do. Here, of course, there are more chances than in the case of a reusable super-heavy, but, nevertheless, it seems to me that in the most probable variant there will be something like this: at first they will not master the working return procedure and will say that the return is not needed and not profitable , in a one-off version it turned out even better. Then they will say that in a one-time version, it is no different from Zenith Soyuz-5, there is no particular use from methane without reusability, so why do it when there is already Zenit Soyuz-5, only to disperse forces and means. As a result, the project was canceled, announcing that it was already ready in the form Zenith Union-5, and there is no need to repair what is not broken.
            1. +4
              17 September 2021
              Alas, this version has a right to exist. Unfortunately.
              If they put an end to the Amur, then the fifth Soyuz is a dead end. This is not progress at all.
              Yes, S-5 will probably close the gap between S-2 and Angara-5. But you can immediately forget about reusability, as well as about competition in the international market. It will turn out to be more expensive and heavier than Zenit, with not very good weight perfection. RB is indispensable.
              Why, it still needs to be done ... “Zenith” was very good for its time, but it was born for a long time and in agony. And even after taking off, it did not differ in very high reliability, despite the decent start automation. FBG RD-171 is 0,978, and the same Merlin has 0,9988. Plus redundancy even if two engines fail. What is there to talk about ... But the RD-171MV VBR, in fact, has not even been developed yet ... How long it will take "S-5" to start flying is difficult to say.
              And two projects, "S-5" and "Cupid", the Republic of Kazakhstan will not pull at the same time ... Except in words. Sad...
          2. -7
            17 September 2021
            What kind of superheavyness we can talk about now, if the Angara has not yet been brought to mind, even in a non-manned version. It has already been completed - four more launches are undergoing flight tests and full-fledged operation of military and civil launches, and the Angara A5P is scheduled to be launched in 2024.
            1. +6
              17 September 2021
              Do you not understand the difference between the product that is on the LCI and the product that is in use?
              I can’t help you.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. -13
      17 September 2021
      Quote: ROSS 42
      The main thing here:
      One and a half billion rubles and 4 years of work - that's all.

      DAILY 21 billion are spent on the payment of pensions to pensioners. Every day .....
      Another question is that 4 years have been lost ..

      Z. Y. However, in the days of the USSR, it was also not fun with the lunar program. When the N-1 was closed ... Also, not 100 rubles went down the drain for 15 years of work
      1. +25
        17 September 2021
        During the Soviet era, the situation was somewhat different.
        Prestige and political competition simply obliged the Union to prove the advantages of socialism at every step. Including in space exploration. So the USSR simply could not help but participate in the lunar race.
        But who forced Roskosmos to crow ahead of time about work on the creation of super and heavy weights? Any Yeniseevs with the Dons? In fact, it turns out that there is nothing in the storeroom. No concepts, no thoughts, no ideas ... There is not even an understanding of in what architecture to form the central bank of the first stage, what engines to put on it, with what fuel. There is nothing.
        One gossip. As always, however.
        1. +12
          17 September 2021
          Quote: Cosm22
          But who forced Roskosmos ahead of time to crow about work on the creation of super and heavy weights? Any Yeniseevs with the Dons? In fact, it turns out that there is nothing in the storehouse. No concepts, no thoughts, no ideas ...

          Justifying the positions held and the "development" of the dough can only be "crowing", and then at least do not dawn.
          Did you see the Americans fly yesterday? Looks impressive !!! This is a victory and a huge step for all mankind.
          Non-professionals, tourists, they were sitting in a limousine!
          And landing a step on a platform is a drone!
          Yesterday, a new record was set for the simultaneous stay of people in outer space, together with a Chinese crew of 14 people!
          Here is such a trampoline, but we do not have an analogue in the world.
          1. +14
            17 September 2021
            There is not one record.
            For the first time in the history of mankind, four manned spacecraft were simultaneously in orbit around the Earth. "Soyuz MS-18", two American "Crew Dragon" and the Chinese "Shenzhou-12".
            Plus, Musk's tourists climbed to a record height - a hundred and a half kilometers above the ISS orbit. Only the astronauts of the Apollo and Space Shuttle manned missions climbed higher.
            1. 0
              17 September 2021
              Quote: Cosm22
              There is not one record.
              For the first time in the history of mankind, four manned spacecraft were simultaneously in orbit around the Earth. "Soyuz MS-18", two American "Crew Dragon" and the Chinese "Shenzhou-12".
              Plus, Musk's tourists climbed to a record height - a hundred and a half kilometers above the ISS orbit. Only the astronauts of the Apollo and Space Shuttle manned missions climbed higher.

              Thanks for the clarification, Kamrad! good drinks
              Only about all these achievements, our nepolzhivaya media modestly keep silent in a rag.
              Not a word about the Chinese at all, I'm even sure that many here at VO have never heard of a Chinese ship with a crew in orbit.
              It is sad that we can actually find ourselves in the margins of astronautics, if we have not yet found ourselves. sad
      2. +9
        17 September 2021
        Quote: your1970
        DAILY 21 billion are spent on the payment of pensions to pensioners. Every day .....

        Wow, the "fifth column"! And the fact that pensioners have earned this money and almost half of them do not live to see retirement?
        And here's another look at what a huge expense:
        Already in 2020, more than 1 billion rubles have been allocated in the federal budget for breakfasts and lunches for the entire "beginning" (grades 4-22 of the school).

        Something you did not remember the oligarchs, whose fortune in the first quarter of 2021 grew by $ 23,969 billion.
        1. +3
          17 September 2021
          Quote: Hyperion
          "! And the fact that pensioners have earned this money and almost half do not live to see retirement?"

          You apparently did not notice - I NOT I'm talking about the fifth column, or that retirees or schoolchildren should NOT receive breakfast and well-deserved pensions

          I write exclusively - that money is lost / stolen / mastered about small ...
          For four years now, yes, we did it ...
          And also about the fact that the USSR wasted a much larger amount of money in equivalent on the N-1 - with exactly the same results
          Zero ....
          1. +7
            17 September 2021
            Quote: your1970
            I write exclusively - that the money is lost / stolen / mastered relatively small ...

            In my opinion, you gave an unfortunate example. Or rather incorrect. For moral and ethical reasons. To listen to some officials, it turns out that pensioners prevent them from building a prosperous Russia. And then there is such news:
            According to data from the Accounts Chamber, over the past two years, salaries of officials from the Russian Pension Fund have grown by more than 50%.

            Quote: your1970
            I write exclusively - that money is lost / stolen / mastered about small ...

            We spend little money on the incomes of Russian billionaires in all spheres.
      3. -12
        17 September 2021
        Quote: your1970
        DAILY 21 billion is spent on the payment of pensions to pensioners. Every day ...

        There is a solution to this problem.
        If a pensioner has relatives of working age, then either they support his entire life, or they are deprived of the right to inherit the living space, and the apartment goes to the Pension Fund.
        And to introduce a large one-time payment to relatives for the funeral in case of death, without really understanding what caused this very death.
        The loving relatives will do the rest themselves.
        1. ANB
          +1
          19 September 2021
          ... There is a solution to this problem.
          If a pensioner has relatives of working age, then either they support his entire life, or they are deprived of the right to inherit the living space, and the apartment goes to the Pension Fund.

          Will the FIU return the contributions already paid? With indexing, of course.
        2. 0
          19 September 2021
          Quote: Narak-zempo
          If a pensioner has relatives of working age, then either they support his entire life, or they are deprived of the right to inherit the living space, and the apartment goes to the Pension Fund.

          A "lip" will not crack at the Pension Fund ?! The bureaucrats from it guarantee NOW a decent, and not a minimum pension to people who have worked all their lives on collective and state farms, or to disabled workers and disabled people of the SA ?!
          1. -1
            20 September 2021
            The question is not how to pay a "decent" pension, but how not to pay it, if possible, so that there is money for the same space.
      4. +1
        18 September 2021
        DAILY 21 billion is spent on the payment of pensions to pensioners. Every day ....
        600 billion a month? 7 trillion in year? You seem to be wrong.
        1. +3
          18 September 2021
          Quote: forty-eighth
          DAILY 21 billion is spent on the payment of pensions to pensioners. Every day ....
          600 billion a month? 7 trillion in year? You seem to be wrong.

          Open the budget of the Russian Federation for this year
          There the number is even a little MORE - not 7, and 8,4 trillion

          "In 2021, the PFR budget will amount to 9,6 trillion rubles. RUB 8,4 trillion will be allocated to pay pensions, for the implementation of a monthly cash payment - 425 billion rubles.
          In 2021, the Pension Fund will provide pension payments for 43 million people. "
  2. +10
    17 September 2021
    In Russia, it is necessary to put things in order at their mines and wells, and not dream of the Moon, although I absolutely agree that the National Bolshevik journalist is completely out of place, I thought he would be trampled on after the theft in the East, but no, to see someone is profitable in this place ...
    1. -3
      17 September 2021
      Well, its subsoil is not rubber, will it run out and what will they do? The entire industry of the PRC and the United States will not be in a hurry to share space ore with others.
      1. +9
        17 September 2021
        And what kind of ore will be transported, anobtanium or iron with aluminum? Just wondering.
        1. -7
          17 September 2021
          Ingots of metals and other things. Scientists back in 60 described in detail in solid SF. It's just that a rail-rotor is placed on the moon and containers with cargo are shot from there, which simply fall to the Earth where they are collected in the right places. Or sent to Earth orbit where it is used in orbital factories. This allows you to send resources home cheaply.
          1. +15
            17 September 2021
            Quote: BlackMokona
            It's just that a rail-rotor is placed on the moon and containers with cargo are bullet from there, which simply fall to the Earth wherever

            where and safely burn in the atmosphere laughing
            Calculate the profitability of this project and everything will become clear. Exploration of mineral resources, mining of ore, a plant for its processing (well, they will not shoot ore). All this costs a lot of money.
            No, someday there will be mining of PI. But not in the next 50 years. If, of course, humanity survives. Everything goes to the fact that mankind will soon become not up to the lunar programs.
            1. PPD
              0
              17 September 2021
              where and safely burn in the laughing atmosphere

              And this is the next project with appropriate funding wassat
            2. -4
              17 September 2021
              Does not burn thanks to the container. Heat protection for him can be done in the same way on the moon. And profitability is now understandably negative. But the depletion of deposits will lead to a constant increase in the cost of mining on Earth, while the development of technology will reduce the cost of mining in space. That will lead at one moment to profit, and if you do not do this in advance, then you just stay for decades of technology development and you will catch up with great difficulty and for a very long time. Sitting already without tasty deposits and digging in landfills to get at least a little resources to build their mining infrastructure
              1. 0
                17 September 2021
                It depends on what will be mined if rhenium iridium platinum osmium niobium and all other rare earth and refractory metals on the same moon and meteorites with asteroids - using reusable systems like Starship, then the profitability will be several hundred percent of the cost of launching and transporting with production.
                1. +5
                  17 September 2021
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  It depends on what will be mined if rhenium iridium platinum osmium niobium and all other rare earth and refractory metals ...

                  The first will be to extract the isotope helium-3, and then only when they learn to build thermonuclear reactors. In the meantime, he is not very much in demand. Everything else is a VERY distant prospect. And not the fact that humanity will live to see it.
                  1. -5
                    17 September 2021
                    There will not be any helium isotope to be mined because it does not have such a demand and application as rare earth metals on Earth. And all this lies on the surface of the Moon, since there is no erosion of the soil and the movement of metals to the core of the planet in the absence of a strong attraction as on Earth.
                2. 0
                  November 13, 2021
                  Das ist fiction!
            3. +3
              17 September 2021
              The next humanity, perhaps, will solve this problem. The present is doomed. Although, they may learn to take the product out of thin air. As with Bushkov, in Svarog you will not need to pick PI. laughing
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. +3
        17 September 2021
        In what sense cannot?
        https://ru.investing.com/equities/tesla-motors-income-statement
        Tesla's revenue for the second quarter of 2021 is almost $ 12 billion. Almost 4 billion dollars a month in sales turns out
        Net profit of $ 1178 million in three months, which is also very tasty.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. -6
            17 September 2021
            According to subsequent information, usually infa turns out to be a duck, as in this case, for example.
            https://www.italy24news.com/News/amp/173378
            Coincidentally, the new owner was a friend of the famous hacking machine known as Green, who was able to extract Sentry Mode footage from the fire. They are here:

            Despite the intense flames, it is clear how the fire actually started from inside the home to later affect Model Y. In another side-camera shot, you can also see the owner on board. cars and gets out when he notices a fire. Smoke and flames are clearly not coming from the battery. After checking, the battery was disassembled and clearly in good condition:

            Secondly, ICE cars of well-known brands also burn remarkably and burn down the houses of their owners.
            https://russian.rt.com/world/article/345760-porsche-sud-samovozgoranie
            A family from the Moscow region won a lawsuit against the car company Porsche two years after a car of this brand standing in their garage ignited spontaneously, which led to a fire in the garage and the house.

            It's just that if it's not about the Mask and his creations, then there is no hype, so the media and the public are of little interest
    3. +12
      17 September 2021
      Quote: Pessimist22
      In Russia, it is necessary to put things in order at their mines and wells, and not dream of the Moon, although I absolutely agree that the National Bolshevik journalist is completely out of place, I thought he would be trampled on after the theft in the East, but no, to see someone is profitable in this place ...

      what Theft during the first stage of the general contract for the construction of the Vostochny cosmodrome was detected by Dalspetsstroy even before Rogozin's appointment to "steer" Roscosmos.
      The trouble with modern Russia is that there are no people among the officials and heads of state corporations who think about the "state good" and not about the personal.
      Regarding the head of Roscosmos, the fable of I.A. Krylova:
      "The trouble is, if the cobbler starts the cakes,
      And the boots stitch the pastry,
      And things won’t work out.
      Yes, and a hundredfold
      What who loves to take someone else’s craft,
      He forever others stubborn and foolish:
      It’s better to ruin everything,
      And glad soon
      The laughing stock of becoming light
      Than honest and knowledgeable people
      Ask il for advice.
      "
      1. 0
        17 September 2021
        Nobody guessed VVP to give Krylov to read and then poke a finger in the direction of Roskosmos? wassat
    4. +10
      17 September 2021
      Quote: Pessimist22
      In Russia, it is necessary to put things in order at their mines and wells, and not dream of the Moon, although I absolutely agree that the National Bolshevik journalist is completely out of place, I thought he would be trampled on after the theft in the East, but no, to see someone is profitable in this place ...

      I would send someone to the mines, and not only Rogozin, but those who appointed him there and are happy with him. ALL FOR THE ELECTION!
    5. +3
      17 September 2021
      Quote: Pessimist22
      In Russia, it is necessary to restore order at its mines and wells, and not dream of the moon

      one should not be a hindrance to the other
      the state should develop science and industry harmoniously, not missing promising directions and not pedaling the important today to the detriment of the important tomorrow
      1. +4
        17 September 2021
        Here who tied himself into what. Some are sucking the margin from the wells, some are "developing" the space industry from the budget. What state, what are you talking about?
        1. +2
          17 September 2021
          Quote: Essex62
          What state, what are you talking about?

          about, probably, what to do next
          1. 0
            17 September 2021
            You are an idealist. Respect hi
            Only this does not need anything, they have everything and so a bunch. They develop only what is necessary, so that the honestly acquired is not taken away.
    6. 0
      17 September 2021
      Quote: Pessimist22
      National Bolshevik journalist is completely out of place

      He is the same National Bolshevik as Zyuganov is a communist or Zhorik is a liberal-democrat. This whole camarilla has an absolutely common ideology and one god - money.
  3. +9
    17 September 2021
    There is very interesting information on filming Indians. Thanks.
  4. 0
    17 September 2021
    Damn, even the presence of landing steps did not at all prove the American landing on the moon, but the trampled paths are all:
    One can only hope for an agreement between the United States and India, but this is already on the verge of insanity.
    1. +6
      17 September 2021
      The path is visible and take a closer look in the Indian picture. Slightly dark stripe above the module. It's just that the Hindu camera is worse
      1. -3
        17 September 2021
        Quote: BlackMokona
        It's just that the Hindu camera is worse

        Yeah, worse. In 2021. And the Americans, in 2011, was even worse ...
        Only here: "The QuickBird-2 spacecraft was launched on October 18, 2001. The owner and lead developer of this space system is DigitalGlobe (USA), which developed in cooperation with Ball Aerospace & Technologies Corp. (platform), Eastman Kodak and Fokker Space The spacecraft was launched into a polar sun-synchronous orbit with an altitude of 450 km ...
        The diameter of the main mirror is 0,6 m;
        Permission on the ground PAN, m - 0,60! From a height of 450 km, through the earth's atmosphere ...
        Now find out the altitude of the Indian lunar satellite and the LRO satellite and take another look at the quality of the images ... smile
        PS If you take those white blurred spots for the remains of "Apollo", then I don't even see the similarity in shape ...
    2. -4
      17 September 2021
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      We can only hope for an agreement between the United States and India.


      Do you think so too? I am also plagued by vague doubts ...
      1. The given photo of the Indian device is not actually a photo, but a reshoot slide from the presentation .. Do you see the red inscription at the top? There is no other image on the Web. They promise to show the original within six months, probably.
      2. The most interesting thing: try to type in a search engine: "The American LRO satellite captured the Apollo 11 landing site. Guess what the Internet will give you? Right! The same image - scale, angle, length and direction of shadows ... Coincidence? winked
    3. -4
      17 September 2021
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Damn, even the presence of landing steps did not at all prove the American landing on the moon, but the trampled paths are all:
      One can only hope for an agreement between the United States and India, but this is already on the verge of insanity.

      Rogozin needs to fly to the moon and check. Or send the lunar rover, but he has neither the time nor the energy for that.
      1. +3
        17 September 2021
        Most importantly, he has no money for this, and no one will allocate additional funds to him 176 - 250 billion, this is the limit of funding for our entire space.
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. +9
    17 September 2021
    There is no lunar ship. No moon suit
    But we have non-oil gas, Putin, the country's main asset, which we must protect more than our own (cut out by the censor). True, he again hid in the bunker (and just before the elections, which makes one think), but this is nothing - he already has the experience of leading the country from the bunker, it was not in vain that he worked out last year. And on the other hand, he has something from the bunker, which somehow turns out not very well in full-time mode.
    1. -6
      17 September 2021
      True, he hid in the bunker again

      it feels like you are sitting next door in a bunker, since you are so well aware of Putin's movements. I don’t know what he’s doing and where is my neighbor in the country at the moment, but you know all the routes. belay
      1. +4
        17 September 2021
        Vladimir Vladimirovich himself said (through Peskov's mustache) that he would self-isolate for an indefinite period.
  7. +6
    17 September 2021
    The article contains a wonderful phrase about Rogozin's work - "in general, everything is as usual."
    Promise with three boxes, spend money and ... and nothing.
    However, he has a good example in front of his eyes about promises, which has been promising and promising for more than twenty years already.
    1. +16
      17 September 2021
      What do you want if:
    2. +3
      18 September 2021
      An example? Well, let's say not an example, but a person who attached people like the aforementioned Rogozin to "feeding." Are there not enough of them? In the "vertical of power"? At the head of corporations? wink
      The faces of the current government do not cause other sensations in me except for a feeling of disgust.
  8. +8
    17 September 2021
    And all that will remain for us is once a year, around April 12, to pompously blurt out the theme that "we were the first."
    .... Once upon a time
    1. +9
      17 September 2021
      Two years ago there was an article on VO, which mentioned Rogozin.
      I dared to speak impartially about the leadership abilities of the "chief in Cosmos" ...
      Threw me - enough to the moon)))
      And today they wrote a whole devastating article. At least some changes.
  9. +15
    17 September 2021
    Ever since I entered Mozhaika, there has been stagnation. For 30 years already. Angara was already hanging on the posters at the department.
    Chelomey was still cheating methane and saw nothing sensible in it.
    It even becomes a shame 12.04 and 04.10 ((
  10. -12
    17 September 2021
    Poor Roscosmos, crying how many feces will be poured on him after Roman's article ... Rogozin is generally rinsed in a waste barrel ... gentlemen, be realistic ... Rogozin is not Korolev, and Roscosmos is not NASA.
    The country is now preoccupied with the elections, and you are here about the Moon, Armstrong, Indians and space distances.
    The general state of the country is still unimportant for space flights to the moon ... we would have to recover from the consequences of the Covid pandemic and that would be good.
    1. AUL
      +5
      17 September 2021
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      ... gentlemen, be realistic ... Rogozin is not Korolev, and Roscosmos is not NASA.
      That's the trouble! And what is needed is Korolev. But, unfortunately, nobody will let Korolyovs upstairs. "The generals have their own children!" (C)
      1. +2
        18 September 2021
        If only the "kids" had even the slightest ability. Rothenberg Jr.! There is such a figure in Russian hockey. Fruits of activity? Well ... the bottom has not yet been broken. bully
    2. +3
      17 September 2021
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Poor Roscosmos, crying how many feces will be poured on him after Roman's article ... Rogozin is generally rinsed in a waste barrel ... gentlemen, be realistic ... Rogozin is not Korolev, and Roscosmos is not NASA.
      The country is now preoccupied with the elections, and you are here about the Moon, Armstrong, Indians and space distances.
      The general state of the country is still unimportant for space flights to the moon ... we would have to recover from the consequences of the Covid pandemic and that would be good.

      A year, or two, or three, and five years ago, was everything good in space? What has changed besides promises?
    3. +4
      17 September 2021
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Poor Roscosmos, crying how many feces will be poured on him after Roman's article ... Rogozin is generally rinsed in a waste barrel ... gentlemen, be realistic ... Rogozin is not Korolev, and Roscosmos is not NASA.
      The country is now preoccupied with the elections, and you are here about the Moon, Armstrong, Indians and space distances.
      The general state of the country is still unimportant for space flights to the moon ... we would have to recover from the consequences of the Covid pandemic and that would be good.

      Do not forget the sanctions and the global crisis. However, Musk is not bothered by this for some reason. Maybe from the fact that he does not spend money on useless projects?
      1. +4
        17 September 2021
        Unlike Rogozin, Musk knows what he wants and what he is going to do and why. In other words, there is a goal, and Mr. Batutkin's goal is to warm up the ass on a hatched saddle longer, because he already holds his shape, like Brooks after rolling wassat
        1. +2
          17 September 2021
          Quote: Klingon
          Unlike Rogozin, Musk knows what he wants and what he is going to do and why. In other words, there is a goal, and Mr. Batutkin's goal is to warm up the ass on a hatched saddle longer, because he already holds his shape, like Brooks after rolling wassat

          Musk himself earns (also finds investors) money, which he spends on his space projects, there will be no success, there will be no money
          1. +4
            17 September 2021
            Quote: parma
            Quote: Klingon
            Unlike Rogozin, Musk knows what he wants and what he is going to do and why. In other words, there is a goal, and Mr. Batutkin's goal is to warm up the ass on a hatched saddle longer, because he already holds his shape, like Brooks after rolling wassat

            Musk himself earns (also finds investors) money, which he spends on his space projects, there will be no success, there will be no money

            And when will Roskosmos make money on its own? I am convinced that give Musk the opportunity of Roskosmos, and he will land on Jupiter. But for this you will have to thoroughly weed out the ranks of managers
  11. +5
    17 September 2021
    I hammered into a search engine about the Yenisei rocket and the very first (!) Link gave out a link to a message about the suspension of work on it as early as February 10 (today is September 17).
    https://www.interfax.ru/russia/750218
    I remembered the anecdote about Sharp Eye.
  12. -5
    17 September 2021
    Skomorokhov spud another space theme! However, I bet on Roskosmos !!!
    1. +6
      17 September 2021
      Quote: avaks111
      Skomorokhov spud another space theme! However, I bet on Roskosmos !!!

      Do not forget to buy shares
  13. -4
    17 September 2021
    Another article for all the good versus all the bad from a universal expert on all issues? A typical example of a modern journalist: I just want to ask: what was that? A stream of consciousness instead of answers to questions posed by oneself. In general, a complete fluffy northern animal - as in a memorable anecdote: and these people forbid me to pick my nose.
    1. -2
      17 September 2021
      Quote: Vovan
      Another article for all the good versus all the bad from a universal expert on all issues? A typical example of a modern journalist: I just want to ask: what was that? A stream of consciousness instead of answers to questions posed by oneself. In general, a complete fluffy northern animal - as in a memorable anecdote: and these people forbid me to pick my nose.

      Do you have something to say on the topic? I work in the structure of Roscosmos and I have something to say
      1. -1
        17 September 2021
        Quote: Pilat2009
        I'm in the structure of Roscosmos

        Brilliant ... Where exactly and who exactly do you work, dear? And after that there will be questions for you on the topic of the article.
  14. -1
    17 September 2021
    Thanks. A poignant, truthful article.
  15. +7
    17 September 2021
    Trampoline. The day before yesterday.
    1. +1
      17 September 2021
      In general, is there really a need for heavyweight. Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper, if not more reliable, to assemble lunar and interplanetary spacecraft on LEO from 20 ton modules?
      1. +4
        17 September 2021
        Needed. The capacity of the Angara-A5V for twenty-ton loads to the Moon or for promising 50-ton nuclear tugs is not enough. The eagle, which was going to be launched by the Yenisei in 22 tons, is now being converted into a 14-ton one with two cosmonauts, but this is two more than the Angara pulls.
        1. +1
          17 September 2021
          Why would Angara drag 20 tons to the moon?
          Angara 5, even without "B", is quite capable of delivering 24 tons to LEO.
          At LEO, by four launches of Angara 5, we assemble a 100-ton ship and forward to the moon.
          Not enough 100 tons, ten launches and 200 tons of an assembled ship, such a super heavy will most likely never be made.
          And the price is radically different, ten launches of Angara A5, even at today's prices, are about 40 billion rubles, and one Yenisei is estimated at 1,5 trillion. rub.
          Plus increased reliability.
          In the event of an accident, 10-20% of the total payload is lost, not all.
          1. +2
            17 September 2021
            1.5 trillion rubles is for the development, not for the construction of the rocket
            1. +1
              17 September 2021
              Here, just the development, plus the infrastructure plus the actual rocket.
              For this money, it is quite possible to launch an orbital shipyard and a lunar ship with a capacity of 100+ tons, and there will still be money left.
            2. -5
              17 September 2021
              1.5 trillion is for the creation of the rocket itself, the construction of the launch pad, the organization of serial production and all the necessary infrastructure.
  16. +2
    17 September 2021
    I think that the Angara and the ship need to be brought to ordinary exploitation and then spent on something else
  17. +20
    17 September 2021
    It is high time to admit that Russia has no opportunities for space exploration. Russia is two times behind the Soviet Union in terms of population, four to five times in terms of economy, and an order of magnitude in scientific and engineering personnel. Manned astronautics, orbital stations, flights to the Moon are already fantastic for us. We can somehow pull only the maintenance and some development of satellite groups - communications, Glonass, reconnaissance, etc. It's all.

    We must acknowledge this fact and close the losses. The country is retired. It's time to send the toys of a stormy youth to the archive.
  18. +5
    17 September 2021
    A novel like Butoh discovered America, another budget sawn into the right pockets with a zero result, lilacs with negative growth, which are so loved by current drivers, Siberian megaliths are on the way, Las Vegas in the middle of the taiga with blackjack and women with low social responsibility
  19. +2
    17 September 2021
    Judging by the picture, the size of the step is about 10 meters !!!
    1. +1
      17 September 2021
      Step size .... Try to find an image of the Apollo lunar module, that part of it that remained on the lunar surface. And try to find on this remaining module what casts a shadow in the form of two "horns" ... winked I, too, could not find it so that it would somehow fit in the proportion "in thickness" of the module itself and those two devices sticking up ...
  20. 0
    17 September 2021
    30 years ago, the project with India on cryogenic-fueled launch vehicles was broken to please the Americans, that was the funeral of Russian space.
    1. +8
      17 September 2021
      How interesting. When all the zero years and the first half of the tenths someone tried to hint that if nothing was done, it would not be very good - he was shouted in chorus of voices that Russian cosmonautics is the best in the world, it will always be so, and they are all stupid there, on shuttles explode, our engines cannot repeat, they cannot repeat the space station without us, commercial loads cannot cheaply, they cheat many times. When it turned out that everything was not very good, the nineties were immediately to blame for this.
  21. +7
    17 September 2021
    Thank God, the leadership was smart enough to understand the meaninglessness of the next lunar race. Flights to the moon, besides, have no practical benefit. They only satisfy their own vanity and demonstrate their own coolness. Of course, such things are also needed. But not as a basic necessity. Today, Russia must first of all strengthen the earth's economy and ensure external security. And for this it is necessary to urgently and massively master the near-earth space. But when the primary tasks are fully resolved, then the time will come to think about expensive interplanetary flights. And even then only if the real expediency of long-range space goals with space costs for their achievement is indicated.
    1. +2
      17 September 2021
      The fact of the matter is that the Americans and after them the Chinese are not going to the moon for show-off, but with a specific purpose - the deployment of bases and the beginning of search and development, for the beginning of the water, of course. For not oil and gas, but Water is our everything!
      1. +1
        17 September 2021
        Quote: Klingon
        with a specific purpose - the deployment of bases and the beginning of search and development, for the beginning of the water, of course. For not oil and gas, but Water is our everything!

        Is there little water on Earth? Or do you think that desalinating water on Earth is more expensive than delivering water from the Moon? Maybe Helium-3? And why is it needed now, if thermonuclear fusion is very, very far in the future and is generally questionable? What else? Metals? To drag ore from the moon? And if you smelt right there, then look at the size of a metallurgical plant on Earth. And on Earth NOW it will be cheaper to build and maintain a hundred orders of magnitude!
        The moon, as an intermediate point of MTO with a circumlunar station, the prospect is so-so ... Why drag cargo to the Moon, if all the same can be done in Earth's orbit under the protection of a magnetic field?
        There remains a purely scientific goal - research, testing ... Development of technologies for a further "jump" to Mars and beyond ...
        1. -1
          17 September 2021
          You are lagging behind life. In the near future, wars will be fought not for oil but for water! There is a lot of water on the earth, but man has not learned to use it in a reasonable rational way
      2. -1
        18 September 2021
        Quote: Klingon
        For not oil and gas, but Water is our everything!

        Wrong. Pushkin Putin is our everything.
  22. +6
    17 September 2021
    By the way, it was in the internet that the Chinese also removed the landing site of amers. With pictures and comparisons.
    Everything is publicly available in their segment.

    And with Roscosmos and Rogozin everything is clear. Dialectics.
  23. 0
    17 September 2021
    I don’t understand about the postponement of the launch of Luna-25? What does "next launch window" mean almost six months after the first one? I understand, to another planet, but here is the Moon. Here, it weighs directly overhead. Hike, the station itself was made in a jumble and is now being remodeled.
    1. +1
      17 September 2021
      It will be tested and verified so that the same thing as with the Science module does not happen.
  24. -4
    17 September 2021
    Another strange article about how everything is bad here, but in America, well, just get hurt. Ale Zimlya, we were going to the moon ... no, at first there was Mars, but we don't want to go there anymore, and Russ didn’t have time to go anywhere at all, it’s even a shame not to throw it, not to boast of large yuessash boats. Clearly new dissidents have entrenched themselves among the authors of VO. Mr. Rogozin just went bankrupt, that he looked under the tail of the Americans, set out to ship as much as a hundred-ton blanks into orbit, because apart from them there was simply nothing so hefty. There is at least one methane-methanol technology here, although reusable technologies will not help. They won't give money for nonsense, period. Super-heavy media are needed, but others are also needed. Enough 50 ton class. Enough for boosters to the Moon and for station modules with radiation protection.
  25. +3
    17 September 2021
    And even in the field of ballet, we are BEYOND the whole planet ...
  26. -2
    17 September 2021
    This is not the first time I read Roman Skomorokhin, and each time I get the impression of the NTV style of the 90s). Each next news is worse than the previous one. Everything is bad, everything is falling apart, we are not able to do anything, we are going into the abyss, and so on. And it would be okay to have only one such author, but there have been many more of them over the past two years. As well as comments on the article (not only to this one). It seems that all positive comments, reviews, news are drowning under the minuses, and everything negative, bad, hopeless - comes up thanks to the pluses. Yes, and the people on the portal have become somehow organized ... not all, but still ..
    1. -1
      20 September 2021
      This is not a Roman pessimist, this is the news.
  27. +4
    17 September 2021
    It turned out that the hydrogen-oxygen pair is almost one and a half times more effective than the kerosene-oxygen pair. True, and more dangerous in terms of an explosion.


    It turned out it's just brilliant
    By that time, this was clarified in chemistry classes, back in school.
  28. -4
    17 September 2021
    Well, you don't have to read this author, which I did!
  29. +1
    17 September 2021
    Quote: Pessimist22
    And what kind of ore will be transported, anobtanium or iron with aluminum? Just wondering.

    Helium-3 and Water are the first things that will start to be mined. And Water on the Moon, Mars and in deep space will be much more valuable than any ores. Since water is also fuel
  30. -1
    17 September 2021
    Quote: Dmitry Ivanov_8
    I don’t understand about the postponement of the launch of Luna-25? What does "next launch window" mean almost six months after the first one? I understand, to another planet, but here is the Moon. Here, it weighs directly overhead. Hike, the station itself was made in a jumble and is now being remodeled.
    this is another lie for the townsfolk. For a flight to Mars, you need the same window, it is also needed for flights to distant places, because there the orbits of the planets converge to perform gravitational maneuvers, etc. and everything is calculated by the clock. For flights to the moon, none of this is needed
  31. 0
    17 September 2021
    Catch up and overtake it will turn out! Our grandfathers were able to, we just need to do the job, and not whine!
  32. +5
    17 September 2021
    Quote: Pilat2009
    Do you have something to say on the topic? I work in the structure of Roscosmos and I have something to say

    Dear say so, do not be silent! Why did you decide to close the project a month and a half before the deadline? (master's attempts to enter clever words do not go already) can you explain?
    Why don't we show that we have drawn at least 1,5 yards in 4 years? (probably it is very secret).
    What were the tests? Were there throwing trials? What is the reason for the choice of a fuel pair and then a sharp turn to another? You tell us in a simple way, without puffing out your cheeks and rolling your eyes. For example, I see with my own eyes that a simple guy physicist, having typed a staff of 9500 people into space, begins to ride a taxi, and what are your structures of 240 people doing? on haha ​​ru looking for a job? Or are you coming up with a new program now? Tell me, don't be shy, otherwise you look like Alkhen and Sashkhen with your comments on the net, well, very shy.
    1. +1
      17 September 2021
      Why did you decide to close the project a month and a half before the deadline? No one covered the project, finish writing crap. For example, I see with my own eyes that a simple guy physicist, having typed a staff of 9500 people into space, starts to ride a taxi, and what are your structures of 240 people doing? And what kind of funding this physicist has, do not tell me not tens of billions of dollars for these 000 people - compare with our 9500 people - from 180000 to 176 billion rubles a year for everything - military space is funded separately through the Ministry of Defense. As the saying goes, they are rich for that and are happy.
      1. +4
        17 September 2021
        "In August 2006, the company was one of the winners of NASA's Commercial Orbital Transportation Services (COTS) program competition and received a total of approximately $ 396 million in funding to develop and demonstrate the Falcon 9 launch vehicle and Dragon spacecraft. The COTS contract was split into 40 stages, each of which was paid separately. Its implementation lasted until 2012. "
        Not tens of billions. And in a very modest time frame.
    2. +1
      17 September 2021
      Speak in a simple way ...
      This is due to the fact that the master asked which is faster? Engineers do not be fools, they said oxygen-kerosene faster, there is experience.
      The master said - do it.
      And then suddenly the master read that the adversary injects supercooled methane into the tanks - which is more efficient than kerosene.
      And he ordered to repeat ...
      1. +1
        17 September 2021
        And this is logical in view of the reduction in the cost of launches when using such a concept.
  33. +1
    17 September 2021
    Quote: Pilat2009

    Rogozin needs to fly to the moon
    Maybe when EdRo will move in these elections ... NO krrasnoerye also lured "four-legged females." They just have their own rhetoric, but to look at the voting statistics, it becomes clear that one gang is operating.
    1. +5
      17 September 2021
      Unanimously voted in favor of the pension reform, the Communist Party against. There is a difference, and it is measurable.
  34. -3
    17 September 2021
    And what does this article do in the Armaments section when it clearly should belong to the Opinions section?
  35. +4
    17 September 2021
    Quote: ont65
    Mr. Rogozin just went bankrupt, that he looked under the tail of the Americans, set out to ship as much as a hundred-ton blanks into orbit, because apart from them there was simply nothing so hefty. There is at least one methane-methanol technology here, although reusable technologies will not help. They won't give money for nonsense, period. Super-heavy media are needed, but others are also needed. Enough 50 ton class. Enough for boosters to the Moon and for station modules with radiation protection.

    Finally !!! And I was still waiting when ... that is. Rogozin was set up by the nasty Yankers, and Dima is innocent. Rogozin, as you say, "burned out" in corvee, nepotism and patriotic sycophancy with beautiful slogans. I am surprised how the RKN did not block the NASA website after the online broadcast of the docking of Science, such a talk to the master about breakthroughs and achievements.
    Well, about 50 tons enough, let's see, here a couple of three years ago they proved that reusability was nothing, back in the 80s our engineers counted long ago. Now it turns out that more than 50 tons is not necessary, also counted in the 80s?
    1. 0
      17 September 2021
      Well, let's be fair to Rogozin: as a completely professional journalist, he does not let us forget about the "successes" of Roscosmos with all kinds of news feeds on a regular basis. But they are usually from the "phobos-in-ground" category.
  36. -3
    17 September 2021
    Of course, it is fashionable to criticize Roskosmos as well as the authorities. But if you approach it seriously, you get the impression of some kind of smokescreen of something more serious besides civilian space. And it has to do with military space. Since, as they say, the budget is not rubber, then obviously the lion's share of funding goes there and for some reason some development needs to be expanded, hence the additional funding. It is possible that it was necessary to switch personnel to support the military.
    And the moon is not going anywhere.
    Well, and the money and 4 years were spent definitely nowhere, as the author of the article writes to us? The development of concepts and groundwork, and possibly ready-made solutions and developments for individual parts of the structure, also require time and money.
    If Rogozin would simply harm or do nothing, he would have been removed long ago.
    1. +1
      17 September 2021
      If Rogozin would simply harm or do nothing, he would have been removed long ago
      "Saints of the 90s" and EBNa remind? Wrecking and doing nothing did not prevent him from serving 2 terms. I could have done more, I just drank myself.
  37. +7
    17 September 2021
    And what could be expected besides degradation with such a personnel policy? If we almost do not have a single minister (with the exception of a few) with specialized education and practical experience in the spheres that they like to manage. Our nobility is mediocre, miserable, incompetent, without honor and conscience for the most part, who by chance has seized power, is not at all about the development and prosperity of the country. She, who considers the main measure of success, achievements of everything and everything, and only spiritual and material loot, have completely different tasks, in the first place is the satisfaction of her personal bourgeois and ambitions, and the main thing is servicing the deriban of the legacy of the once great power, betrayed and destroyed by them. , as well as ensuring the receipt of profit by overseas speculators from these territories, while the overseas metropolis is interested, they are still needed. It is clear that none of the ruling class and the boyars are interested in any progress in science, education, and even in the development and prosperity of a society of slaves, it is costly and does not give personal profit, and most importantly, they simply don’t know how and what to do, they don't bother too much, according to the principle it will somehow resolve itself, you have to wait. ...
    1. 0
      21 September 2021
      Not everyone, even with an academic degree in their profile, can effectively manage in the role of a minister. It is necessary at least ba still financial education and the ability to manage a team. This is not given to many. Often the reason is high self-esteem about oneself with mediocre abilities in practice.
  38. 0
    17 September 2021
    I remember how in the last years of Soviet power many Soviet workers had 50+ different research institutes, design bureaus, factories and factories in Soviet institutions, this "slogan": "Let me work up to retirement ..." And then, probably, do whatever you want, at least to the moon, at least to Mars, at least to the notorious Alpha Centauri, or do something else, but without us. There is no need to say how it ended for many enterprises, when, in fact, this slogan was put into practice. Probably under S.P. There were none at all for the Queen in his "firm", and then there were fewer, but even there they got the upper hand in the end. However, under Korolev, they did not flutter the paper and morality, setting out to the people unverified, unnecessary facts, someone's opinions, and even more so the decisions of state commissions or the Presidium of the Academy of Sciences on various issues of the development of science and technology. They did the job, and after the job was done, the information went to the press, on the radio, and later on TV.
    Therefore, it is always pleasant to feel pride for the country, for the industry, for fellow citizens, when from an unexpected TASS message, oh, now just some media, you suddenly hear the words: "Today, at __ o'clock Moscow time, an interplanetary spacecraft piloted by the Hero of Russia _____ and five crew members (with the names of the citizens of the Russian Federation) landed on the moon."
    1. +2
      17 September 2021
      Quote: 1536
      I remember how in the last years of Soviet power many Soviet workers had 50+ different research institutes, design bureaus, factories and factories in Soviet institutions, this "slogan": "Let me work up to retirement ..." And then, probably, do whatever you want, at least to the moon, at least to Mars, at least to the notorious Alpha Centauri, or do something else, but without us. There is no need to say how it ended for many enterprises, when, in fact, this slogan was put into practice. Probably under S.P. There were none at all for the Queen in his "firm", and then there were fewer, but even there they got the upper hand in the end. However, under Korolev, they did not flutter the paper and morality, setting out to the people unverified, unnecessary facts, someone's opinions, and even more so the decisions of state commissions or the Presidium of the Academy of Sciences on various issues of the development of science and technology. They did the job, and after the job was done, the information went to the press, on the radio, and later on TV.
      Therefore, it is always pleasant to feel pride for the country, for the industry, for fellow citizens, when from an unexpected TASS message, oh, now just some media, you suddenly hear the words: "Today, at __ o'clock Moscow time, an interplanetary spacecraft piloted by the Hero of Russia _____ and five crew members (with the names of the citizens of the Russian Federation) landed on the moon."

      But now a slightly different slogan - let us live until retirement. I’ll tell you a secret, for 30 thousand you will not make a rocket, normal specialists will always find a job for themselves. The same pensioners who want to live to retirement remain.
      1. +3
        17 September 2021
        Yes, yes, as in our old Soviet comedy: "I have the desire to buy a house, but I have no opportunity. I have the opportunity to buy a goat, but I have the desire."
        I’ll go and look through the memories of S. Jobs, maybe I’ll find what salary he received when he came to work in a well-known US defense concern in his youth. What I mean is that it is not the salary that determines consciousness, but the possibility of perspective, i.e. receive a lot when the fruits of your labor are visible. There was a problem with this under the Bolsheviks, but alas, it still remains. Because no one sees the prospects on Earth, what can we say about the Moon. But maybe still someone will try sometime? So the fact that the "lunar project" has been postponed today is correct, although it is insulting, of course.
  39. +9
    17 September 2021
    Quote: your1970

    DAILY 21 billion are spent on the payment of pensions to pensioners. Every day .....

    And this is a reason to throw money down the drain?
    Can you tell me how many contributions to the FIU are collected DAILY?
    And, since such a booze has gone, will you tell me where the funded part of the pension went?
    You don't have to answer, the question is rhetorical. :(
  40. +1
    17 September 2021
    our unfading CEO of Roscosmos

    Because you need to have a special education in order to make decisions 10-15 years before they become relevant.
    And to make decisions when they are obvious - there is no need for education, only cash flow to pour over your incompetence.
  41. +1
    17 September 2021
    5. Hydrogen-oxygen generators for electricity generation.
    Not entirely true - this is an older development, even from the Gemini ships, its improved version on Apollo.
    Our engineers also developed a hydrogen-oxygen ECH for the H1 carrier to generate electricity and water in flight, B. Chertok in the book Rockets and People:
    In this narrow circle, I recalled what an ECH is. Electricity in the ECH is obtained by the reaction of the compound [377] of hydrogen with oxygen ...
    By combining hydrogen with oxygen in a special generator, an explosion can be dispensed with. The energy released in this case is removed from the electrodes of the generator as an electric current. As a result of the reaction, the purest water is formed, which is used in the life support system of the spacecraft.
    The Americans were way ahead of us in creating the ECH. They used them even in the flights of the Gemini spacecraft.... For the Apollo, ECH was the main source of electricity and drinking water on the way to the Moon and back.

    According to the flight program No. 7L, the main source of electricity for the head unit was provided by the ECH, developed specifically for the lunar expedition. For a flight from the Earth to the Moon, around the Moon and from the Moon to the Earth, it was required to fill the ECH tanks with 600 kilograms of liquid hydrogen.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  42. +2
    17 September 2021
    Russia will shoot a "film" for the first channel in orbit, sacrificing his last space module for this, and that's it .... When Lenin was informed that the revolution train had run out of wood, he organized a subbotnik, led it personally with a log on his shoulder, replenished the pool and rushed on. When Stalin was informed that the train of socialism had stopped - he ran out of wood, he drove half of the country into the taiga, sawed wood and rushed on. When Khrushchev was informed that the train was on the way to communism - the tracks ran out, he asked, and those that are behind? - shoot from behind and lay in front - rushed further. When Brezhnev was informed that the train had stopped - EVERYTHING was over - firewood, rails, he asked, did the steam remain in the boiler? - then stop and play, let them think that we are going.
    1. +1
      17 September 2021
      Quote: Kushka
      Russia will shoot a "film" for the first channel in orbit, sacrificing his last space module for this, and that's it .... When Lenin was informed that the revolution train had run out of wood, he organized a subbotnik, led it personally with a log on his shoulder, replenished the pool and rushed on. When Stalin was informed that the train of socialism had stopped - he ran out of wood, he drove half of the country into the taiga, sawed wood and rushed on. When Khrushchev was informed that the train was on the way to communism - the tracks ran out, he asked, and those that are behind? - shoot from behind and lay in front - rushed further. When Brezhnev was informed that the train had stopped - EVERYTHING was over - firewood, rails, he asked, did the steam remain in the boiler? - then stop and play, let them think that we are going.

      Effective managers have destroyed many civilizations - Atlantis, Rome, Byzantium, the Russian Empire ...
      1. +1
        17 September 2021
        Well, there was this one, like him, Nero - burned Rome. He became famous for centuries, in schools they study and commemorate in vain. As they say, who studied what. To destroy something, sometimes you need to have more talent than the one who created it (super-duper big / strong / tall / deep / unmatched in the world ...). Yeltsin over there, squatting, there with a lash - bang-bang and Russia in tartars. Well, as it should be - they study in schools, the Yeltsin Center is pompous ... well, the same Fuhrer (he will not be remembered by night) - burned and destroyed everything to hell from London to Stalingrad, and the villages, so they burned thousands of them, some twice , three times or even four times - but you will not claim that he is an "ineffective manager" .... Yes, and there, high-high, there is the Creator, and there is Satan ...... I do not know about you, but I I will not undertake to assert that Covid is God's punishment, like all California, Turkey, Greece, or flooded Sochi and Yalta ...
        Balance and Equilibrium!
  43. -2
    17 September 2021
    Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich

    Because you need to have a special education in order to make decisions 10-15 years before they become relevant. ...
    But what the chief will say about this ... ugh, Miho Sa.aa (oh what a man) kashvili: The competition for the new head of the State Forestry Agency has been announced. One of the main conditions for the selection of candidates is a "master's degree in forestry". In translation it means: we want to choose a specific person "from our own". We announced a competition for it, and we don't need strangers.
    How many people in Ukraine have specialized education in the field of forestry? Should this idiotic requirement mean that all of them cannot become good managers unless they have a specialized education? Then it turns out that one of the most talented ministers, Kubrakov, for example, could not be an effective head of Ukravtodor, because he is not a road builder. And the Minister of Infrastructure, by the way, too. Complete nonsense
  44. +2
    17 September 2021
    Maybe with Science and worn out, but the module nevertheless became part of the ISS. The Americans have something similar, but in the amount of 1 piece, as we do. The Chinese simply do not have this, and it is not clear when it will be. So do not bury what is alive. We have brains, we have technologies, we have a production base, and we have money. Now what is missing: the state and departmental system of combating corruption and theft. This time. The authorities lack the will to create such a system. Who wants to against themselves? These are two.
    So hundreds of billions of people's money are scattered in the bowels of Roscosmos, UAC, Rusnano, etc. But if our engineers, designers, scientists, technicians, workers would free themselves from "effective managers" and could work in peace, then the Moon, Mars, and much more would become available.
    1. +2
      17 September 2021
      Quote: Glagol1
      Maybe with Science and worn out, but the module nevertheless became part of the ISS. The Americans have something similar, but in the amount of 1 piece, as we do. The Chinese simply do not have this, and it is not clear when it will be. So do not bury what is alive. We have brains, we have technologies, we have a production base, and we have money. Now what is missing: the state and departmental system of combating corruption and theft. This time. The authorities lack the will to create such a system. Who wants to against themselves? These are two.
      So hundreds of billions of people's money are scattered in the bowels of Roscosmos, UAC, Rusnano, etc. But if our engineers, designers, scientists, technicians, workers would free themselves from "effective managers" and could work in peace, then the Moon, Mars, and much more would become available.

      Well, forgive me, if we are so tormented with each module ...
    2. +2
      17 September 2021
      Money, that is, but these amounts that are allocated for the development of the space sphere are not enough, at least three times more need to be allocated.
  45. +1
    17 September 2021
    Quote: aleks26
    where and safely burn in the atmosphere

    Why are you arguing with that idiot? It's time to read his comments by opening his profile and block him in the outhouse.
  46. +1
    17 September 2021
    Quote: your1970
    Z. Y. However, in the days of the USSR, it was also not fun with the lunar program. When the N-1 was closed ... Also, not 100 rubles went down the drain for 15 years of work


    According to Barmin Vladimir Pavlovich at the beginning of 1974: 4 USSR rubles were spent on the H000 program (approximately) and on 000 unsuccessful starts + backlog in production.
    After much research, Korolev chose the most optimal scheme for H1. He deliberately abandoned the multi-unit missile. This is not profitable for this size. The H1 needs to be overhauled instead of reinventing the wheel. We have already spent 4 billion rubles on H1. We are obliged to use them.

    B. Chertok Rockets and people.
  47. 0
    17 September 2021
    Something I am already pretty tired of the topic of space.
    There is no money, but you hold on.
    There is no money, but space is needed.
    So is there money or not, do you need space or let it fly?
    And it turns out that Russian space is money down the drain.
  48. +2
    17 September 2021
    Quote: Vadim237
    No one covered the project, finish writing crap.

    This crap is written and voiced by your leaders. In February 2021, we corrected the appearance of the rocket, we are well defined what we will draw, now September I am quoting “is working to clarify the program for creating a space rocket complex for a super-heavy launch vehicle” don’t you think that for two hundred thousand workers this is too much? Just answer, what bench tests were carried out under this program? what is difficult? ...
    Quote: Vadim237
    And what kind of funding this physicist has, do not tell me not tens of billions of dollars for these 9500 people - compare with our 180000 people - from 176 to 250 billion rubles a year for everything

    Dozens? Well, the right word is that so small? let's get hundreds. SpaceX along with external investments, injections from Musk himself, plus NASA 6.25 billion contracts from 2002 to 2020. Let's compare the amounts for this period for our astronautics at the rate? And in order not to be unfounded, tyk https://oig.nasa.gov/docs/IG-20-005.pdf there really are complicated words, that's simpler tyk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX#Summary_of_achievements. .. and yes, do not confuse the falcon with the starship, these are different baskets, according to different tenders (the word is sweet, yes, tendeerrr money)
    Quote: Vadim237
    military space is funded separately by the Ministry of Defense

    do you really want to go through Roscosmos? sometimes one gets the impression that the Unions are flying thanks to the Ministry of Defense, Plesetsk and in spite of the rest.
    But on the whole I agree - you need to dream more, you need to dream more expensive. And space is eternal, it will wait.
    1. +3
      17 September 2021
      This crap about closing - you wrote. And yes, the guys from Roskosmos are not my leaders - since 2018, they are simply a subcontractor for them. "That is too much for two hundred thousand workers." - And there that all 180000 workers are engaged in one super-heavy - there are a lot of other areas, including military space. Just answer, what bench tests were carried out under this program? What kind of bench tests - the rocket is only in the preliminary design is originally wanted to put RD 171MV on the first stages of their tests at the stands were carried out.
      Dozens? Well, the right word is that so small? let's get hundreds. SpaceX, together with external investments, injections of Musk himself, plus NASA contracts 6.25 billion from 2002 to 2020. And besides that, we no longer count the profit from the launches, and the additional funds that Musk probably attracted and continues to attract for the development of the company, given that the office is private and compact, it is not burdened with state administrative bureaucracy, so everything is done quickly and cheaper there. And yes, the country's leadership is not in a hurry to invest in civilian space - because this money is down the drain, the costs are large and the return is scanty stimulating commercial benefit will appear only when in space they begin to extract minerals that are scarce on Earth, then large financing of civil space will begin - but for now, countries other priorities on earth space is funded by funds.
  49. +1
    17 September 2021
    Quote: Vadim237
    It will be tested and verified so that the same thing as with the Science module does not happen.

    And from the very beginning it was impossible to do it normally?
    1. +1
      17 September 2021
      Science did the same from the very beginning normally, but in fact it turned out that the jambs remained in the control systems.
  50. +1
    17 September 2021
    A seething bummer or a bummer ALWAYS abandons what he has begun (reincarnation of one character Ilf and Petrov)
  51. +1
    17 September 2021
    Why go to the moon now?

    Resources. I just remind you that the first people in America were the Spaniards and the Portuguese.

    And where are they now
    1. Lad
      +1
      17 September 2021
      Then why go to space at all?
      The USSR was the first in space and where is it now?
  52. +2
    17 September 2021
    At least they came to their senses that they wouldn’t pull it off... And that’s okay
  53. 0
    17 September 2021
    The launch of Luna 25 has also been postponed to the middle of next year

    Whoops, it won't fly in October? Where does the info come from? And here one comrade proved to me a year ago that everything will fly, by the hour. And I had already put aside my eternal alarmism about this, I really want to see how these same 20 kilograms of payload will work out. And how many.
    As for the “Moon Race” - our elites don’t quite understand, or rather “don’t understand at all” why the hell they need this Moon and deep space to the heap - here’s the orbit, take tourists to the ISS, grow something there, that’s understandable , it brings greens, sir, or solves some close and understandable issues on earth. This is all called down-to-earth thinking. That’s why they’re not in a particular hurry - they seem to be crawling in the dark, feeling every stone) We need to imagine what we want from space beyond orbit - I mean some kind of material road map, and not all these semi-political projects.
  54. +1
    17 September 2021
    Wow, so many experts on space developments! Wow, how ashamed they all are for “closing” the development of a “super-heavy rocket” at the technical project stage! Well, “Rashka fsyo”, a shameful disgrace!

    At the same time, neither the author of the article nor the entire number of experts have ever participated in the development of space technology. They didn’t even participate in the development of non-space technology. They are unable to distinguish the technical design stage from the preliminary design stage. They also don’t know how “letter O” differs from “letter O1”. But to gush about something about which they have not the slightest idea is welcome.

    I’m telling this for sane people who are not very familiar with technical developments.
    Stopping development at any stage is normal for technology. Not just space - any kind. Out of ten to twenty developments started, only one reaches series production. The rest go into the archives. And, yes, the customer’s money is spent on all these developments. And the customer is READY for this in advance. Because what has reached the series pays for everything put into the archive - that’s one thing, what was put into the archive can be further developed in the future and recoup the investment - that’s two. And this may not even be archived at the technical project stage (this is still a humane option), but after the development is completely completed (and the corresponding costs). And at the stage of preliminary and technical design - this is generally a common thing. The purpose of a technical project is to make a choice of the optimal variant of technical solutions BEFORE the development of design documentation begins (this is written down in GOST!). And if at the technical design stage it turns out that a rubber engine is more optimal than an internal combustion engine, then the version with an internal combustion engine is stopped and archived. And the rubber-motor version, yes, is sometimes tempting to start development from scratch (but rarely, the experience and groundwork acquired in the previous version are used to the fullest).
    Of course, the best option is when the same specialists carry it from the preliminary design stage to a large series, and then accompany production for many years. But the best option, unfortunately, is not the most common. And quite the opposite. Most likely, completely different people will extract technical documentation from the archive and continue development (if necessary), and not those who laid it down. And this is very uncomfortable for developers. But what to do? And for whom is it easy? Many developments were born this way.

    A tale from the past. We met once at a counter course near the metal waste dump of our research institute. I am a young engineer, and Kiryusha is our mechanic - “golden hands” (like Gosha from “Doesn’t Believe in Tears”). I went to throw away the used model, he dragged someone else’s craft from the landfill to the site in order to use the parts for further work. They smiled at the funny situation and Kiryusha said philosophically, pointing to the landfill: “This is our main customer.”

    By the way, there is a very good film (a feature film, of course, but nonetheless) that shows how Korolev more than once or twice had to abandon an option that was already far advanced in development. "Taming of Fire" is one of my favorite films.
    1. -1
      18 September 2021
      Quote: Martyn
      At the same time, neither the author of the article nor the entire number of experts have ever participated in the development of space technology.

      Everything you described is correct. The truth about the landfill is more like an anecdote, but the fact that they treated any design documentation with care is a fact. Not even about entering a series of developments out of 10-20, just one, in my experience as a general customer in the Ministry of Defense, a big exaggeration - then the head of the ordering structure would definitely be sent to Magadan. And the rest you described everything exactly - I can confirm this with my own experience, which, by the way, I talked about in one of my articles on this forum.
      1. 0
        25 September 2021
        Quote: ccsr
        The truth about the landfill looks more like a joke

        Pure truth. It looks like a joke, of course. But it's true, that's how she is. Sometimes it doesn't seem true. winked
        Quote: ccsr
        Not even about entering a series of developments out of 10-20, just one, in my experience as a general customer in the Ministry of Defense, a big exaggeration

        No Unfortunately. Those 9 that didn’t make it to the series are a huge experience that is needed for that very 10th that shot. By the way, the Moscow Region understands this very well. After all, “didn’t reach the series” does not mean that it doesn’t work at all. It works and, often, not bad. But, for example, it turns out to be expensive. Or everything is fine, strictly according to the technical specifications, “thank you, dear developers, you have completed everything, we will put your development in the archive for now.” Because... it's none of your business why. Very often, the developer does not perform the development work, but part of it (mid-range development work). He accomplished everything, but his “companions” got stuck somewhere. For example, you developed and tested a control system for an engine with square pistons, but engine engineers always end up with triangular pistons. Well, your development is there, waiting. And then suddenly they can take it and nail it to an engine with oval pistons. Because It turns out during the development process that oval ones are better than square ones.
  55. +2
    17 September 2021
    And it was this: the general director of the Samara Rocket and Space Center "Progress" Dmitry Baranov said that work on the design of a super-heavy lunar rocket codenamed "Yenisei" had been stopped.

    More precisely, they were discontinued at the technical design stage. Of course, as Baranov said, the center will be able to continue what it has begun, provided the will of Roskosmos.

    But, apparently, it won't. Played enough.

    One and a half billion rubles and 4 years of work - that's all. In October-November of this year, the technical design was supposed to be completed, and here is such an unexpected (in fact, not very) final. Thanks to everybody, you're free. One and a half billion will evaporate somewhere.

    One month before the end of the work period.

    It is very difficult to say what was worked out there and whether it was worked out at all, but already last year it became clear that something went wrong.


    Well why right away"Something went wrong"?
    Maybe everything just went exactly as planned?
    It’s enough to remember the film “The Producers” and everything immediately falls into place.
    After all, the key thing here is that 4 billion have been spent, something has been developed, but who knows what exactly, they haven’t brought it to the end... Why not “Producers”, but in real embodiment???

    PS It would probably be funny to the point of hiccups if it weren’t so sad...
  56. +5
    17 September 2021
    I will express a seditious thought, which I have repeatedly expressed to colleagues from the Institute of Biomedicine of the Russian Academy of Sciences (those who are not in the know are those who, from 1963 to the present day, have been the leaders in space biology and medicine in the USSR/Russia, and in a number of areas are still ahead of the rest - thanks to the Soviet legacy). In my opinion, I have the right to speak out, since by the will of fate I participated and am participating as a microbiologist in the development of closed bioregenerative life support systems (aka BSZHO, aka BTSZHO, aka CELSS) for future extraterrestrial settlements. Not to say that this is my main activity - but as a “coming” microbiologist-phytopathologist, I contributed to the legacy of both the Soviet BIOS-3 (Institute of Biophysics SB RAS) and the Chinese Yuegong-1 (Beijing Aerospace University, also known as BUAA, aka Beihang University). And this contribution is reflected in articles (Advances in Space Research, Ecological engineering, Aerospace and environmental medicine - nee Space biology and medicine), as well as in a series of reports on the Committee on Space Research (COSPAR), I can provide any evidence to those who doubt it.

    This was a preamble designed to emphasize that I, in general, am aware of the medical, biological and environmental problems of human presence in space and/or on the surface of celestial bodies. So, I am deeply convinced that Space is not for humans. Our biology is tailored to a very specific planet with specific physical and chemical conditions and a very specific Biosphere. Pay attention to the current record. As many as 14 (fourteen) people are in near-Earth space - out of 7,9 billion. And this is presented as an achievement, and it really is an achievement - taking into account the fact that H. sapiens is categorically unadapted to extraterrestrial conditions. I kneel before the people who ensure the survival of man outside the Earth (especially since I know some of them personally and sincerely respect, and I’m even proud to know). But I think that Space is not for humans. Space is for machine guns.

    Note.
    1. Colleagues (I repeat, very respected by me) do not share my pessimism. And others (no less respected) agree with my pessimism.
    2. Although I believe that Space is not for humans, in the mentioned works on the legacy of BIOS-3 and Yuegong-1 I participated to the fullest, with full dedication, using all my knowledge and talents, regardless of labor costs, putting aside all other matters and giving these tasks the highest priority, quite often - for free or for absolutely ridiculous money. Why? It’s interesting - what if it works out? )))
    1. Lad
      +1
      17 September 2021
      Very interesting. Is there somewhere a vision of the groups you mentioned of these very “future extraterrestrial settlements”? Well, maybe some articles or books. Maybe videos on the Internet? Can you share some links? Unless it's all secret, of course. I'd like to read it. Otherwise, we all read all sorts of science fiction books, and this, you know, is not entirely correct. Of course, it is necessary to read that the cosmonautics collapsed in Russia, because without realizing the shortcomings it is impossible to move anywhere at all. But sometimes I still want to dream. And the view of scientists gives a real perspective for this. )))
      1. +3
        18 September 2021
        Quote: Lad
        Is there somewhere a vision of the groups you mentioned of these very “future extraterrestrial settlements”?

        The original ideology was formulated back in the 60s. It was supposed to create a closed ecosystem based on the single-celled algae chlorella. The crew consumes the oxygen released by Chlorella and feeds on Chlorella biomass. Chlorella absorbs carbon dioxide and waste released by the crew. It turned out compact enough to be placed on a spaceship. Unfortunately, it turned out that the crew could not eat chlorella. First of all, it doesn't taste good. Secondly (and most importantly) there is too much nitrogen in single-celled organisms, our body is not designed for this, and serious health problems begin. Chlorella or other unicellular algae can be used as an addition to the diet, but not as the main diet.

        As a result, chlorella was replaced by a set of edible plants, with the main component of the diet being a specially bred variety of wheat. The bioproductivity of higher plants is significantly lower than that of chlorella - that is, instead of a compact bioreactor, decent areas are required. In addition, higher plants grow poorly in zero gravity - the roots cannot understand where is up and down. The problem with the roots was eventually solved (I personally know the person who solved it; his installations for growing plants worked almost at Salyut, at Mir for sure), but there is no escaping the space. It became clear that this could not be placed in space, but on the surface of the Moon or Mars - why not.

        The pinnacle of technology was BIOS-3 in the basement of the Institute of Biophysics. Now the complex is in ruins, in 2018 (or in 2020? I forgot, and I’m too lazy to look for documentation on the computer) they asked the Russian Science Foundation for money for resuscitation (the asking price was something like 10 million rubles), but they didn’t give the money. Currently, experiments are being carried out on small phytotrons, here is a video.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQI31tfdaY4
      2. +3
        18 September 2021
        Quote: Lad
        Is there somewhere a vision of the groups you mentioned of these very “future extraterrestrial settlements”?

        The original ideology was formulated back in the 60s. It was supposed to create a closed ecosystem based on the single-celled algae chlorella. The crew consumes the oxygen released by Chlorella and feeds on Chlorella biomass. Chlorella absorbs carbon dioxide and waste released by the crew. It turned out compact enough to be placed on a spaceship. Unfortunately, it turned out that the crew could not eat chlorella. First of all, it doesn't taste good. Secondly (and most importantly) there is too much nitrogen in single-celled organisms, our body is not designed for this, and serious health problems begin. Chlorella or other unicellular algae can be used as an addition to the diet, but not as the main diet.

        As a result, chlorella was replaced by a set of edible plants, with the main component of the diet being a specially bred variety of wheat. The bioproductivity of higher plants is significantly lower than that of chlorella - that is, instead of a compact bioreactor, decent areas are required. In addition, higher plants grow poorly in zero gravity - the roots cannot understand where is up and down. The problem with the roots was eventually solved (I personally know the person who solved it; his installations for growing plants worked almost at Salyut, at Mir for sure), but there is no escaping the space. It became clear that this could not be placed in space, but on the surface of the Moon or Mars - why not.

        The pinnacle of technology was BIOS-3 in the basement of the Institute of Biophysics, Krasnoyarsk. Now the complex is in ruins, in 2018 (or in 2020? I forgot, and I’m too lazy to look for documentation on the computer) they asked the Russian Science Foundation for money for resuscitation (the asking price was something like 10 million rubles), but they didn’t give the money. Currently, experiments are being carried out on small phytotrons, here is a video.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQI31tfdaY4
        What BIOS-3 looked like, you can see pictures by searching BIOS-3 on Google.

        The Chinese, with our help, made their own version, the Yuegong-1 system. Run an image search on Google for Yuegong-1 - there are many, good and different. The ideology is the same as that of BIOS-3, but at a modern level, everything is very beautiful and technologically advanced.

        The idea of ​​BIOS-3/Yuegong-1 is beautiful, but there are a lot of pitfalls. So far everything is working out according to the principle “if you pull out your nose, your tail will get stuck.” If you give a lot, a lot of money, I think a workable system (one that can be placed on the Moon) will appear in 5-10 years. With current funding, the Russian system will never appear. The Chinese (if they don’t cancel the project - they are now at a crossroads) will probably start on the Moon with small installations (growing some fresh greens as a supplement to the diet), and will gradually scale up.

        Alternative projects include MELiSSA from ESA. But everything is sad there, they are deeply and firmly stuck. They decided to take as a basis an aquatic ecosystem divided into compartments. On paper and on their diagrams everything is very beautiful, in practice everything is not so rosy. In addition, they were faced with the same problem - what to feed the crew? Now they have come up with the idea of ​​the same BIOS-3, growing edible plants. But we haven't made much progress yet.

        Journalists also love to cite Biosphere 2 as an example, but this is completely off topic. A private project that never worked normally for a day, and couldn’t work in principle. It’s like trying to immediately build an intercontinental airliner, having only the Wright brothers’ plane as a prototype. After the disappointment of the mentioned private owners in the project, "Biosphere-2" is in ruins. They tried to use it for scientific research, then as an attraction, but maintaining such a large-scale system is too expensive.
    2. 0
      18 September 2021
      Then forgive me, but the earth is also not particularly suitable for humans. Otherwise there are some poor supports in the form of clothes and heating...
      1. +1
        18 September 2021
        Quote: FireLake
        Then forgive me, but the earth is also not particularly suitable for humans. Otherwise there are some poor supports in the form of clothes and heating...

        On the ground
        - habitual gravity, precisely the one under which the species H. sapiens was evolutionarily formed
        - you can do without a spacesuit
        - well, plus the Biosphere, for which we are evolutionarily tailored.
        In other words, it is possible to live on Earth. And in many places - without the use of high technology at all. In the Paleolithic, H. sapiens populated almost all of the land, using technologies that were very primitive by our standards.

        You cannot live in Space. There you can only survive in an environment hostile to humans, and to survive exclusively with the help of high technology. In this regard, it is much easier for automata, since they are designed not by stupid natural selection, but by smart engineers, and not for earthly conditions, but for the conditions where the automata will have to work.
  57. The comment was deleted.
  58. -7
    17 September 2021
    Author!
    In general, I agree with your facts presented in the article.
    And you described the real state in Roscosmos without embellishment.
    But for the life of me, I don’t believe that the Americans landed on the Moon!
    1. +3
      17 September 2021
      Which of the six landings do you not believe in? smile
      1. +2
        17 September 2021
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Which of the six landings do you not believe in?

        Supporters of the “Moon Conspiracy” simply do not know that there were as many as six landings.

        By the way, remember the movie "Capricorn-1"? With all due respect to the director and actors (at one time I watched it on the big screen in one sitting), the situation is still unreal. Those bad people from the intelligence services who eliminated the astronauts to avoid information leakage should have realized that they were the next to be eliminated. They're not completely stupid after all!
        So, given the instinct of self-preservation (albeit rudimentary) and mental abilities (even minimal), these scoundrels had to team up with the astronauts and rush in their black helicopters to the office of the rival party, convening journalists and senators as they went. And then for the rest of their lives they would write memoirs and give lectures on the topic “how I exposed the Martian conspiracy” (of course, they would write and speak for money).
        1. +1
          17 September 2021
          It's funny. The local filter did not miss several absolutely censored epithets regarding the mental abilities of the evil intelligence services from the film “Capricorn-1”. After several experiments, the local filter and I agreed on “not completely stupid”.
      2. -1
        17 September 2021
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Which of the six landings do you not believe in?

        If your post is addressed to me, then in principle, I don’t believe it!
        In the mid-90s, I was in the USA on a visitor visa.
        My friend recently received a residence permit using the “password” status.
        While there, his sponsor provided us with a bus tour with a visit to Houston and the Aerospace Museum.
        Frankly speaking, the “idea” didn’t light us up!
        You understand, the money is not so great; he also recently moved for permanent residence. Yes, and I had to “justify” the costs of the trip. These are hard times, I wanted to visit my relatives in Pennsylvania.
        And he is an astrophysicist by profession (Borya Viktorov). In short, he “lit” me!
        Well, let's go.
        We walked around and naturally came to the museum.
        My vocabulary by that time consisted of fak yuu (not for you!), hau mach, gerari may wei, but spikingglish, fak yuu ass. (Not for you!, for the sake of YHWH, sorry.).
        In short, we walk around gawking.
        We walked and walked, it wasn’t crowded. And we came across astronaut mannequins.
        Not sure what to do, I looked around in all directions (I had a small Swiss penknife with the flag of this country). And I decided to dive under the turnstile and start picking at the lining.
        The top layer was very close compared to a kimono, only denser.
        From the inside, where I poked around: you won’t believe it, ordinary FOIL, then BATTING, and so on. Further, jitters, moaning of a friend.
        I was LITERALLY blown away.
        Of course, at that time I heard about radiation and cold.
        That’s where I got stuck.
        The question immediately jumped up. Is this original or a fake copy?
        Well, you have an idea about my command of English.
        And I literally prayed to my friend!
        Just ask the employees if this is an original or a copy.
        He doesn't care. In the end, we agreed that I was looking for an employee, and he would ask as best he could.
        Here “Ostap got carried away.” I was literally “cut off the chain.”
        In short, after some brief wandering around the museum, I attracted the attention of security.
        I came across him and come on, please mister, I’m calling him with me.
        He’s trying to ask me something, but out of everything I only understood the word “problem.”
        I shake my head and say com.
        Amer, follow me.
        Thank GOD we reached these mannequins and our friend.
        I tell him I’m not dispossessed. Ask about spacesuits.
        He is at a loss, mumbles something about litter, etc.
        I can smell it with my fifth point, this potz turns on the “back”.
        Then I tell him, if you don’t ask about my topic, then I swear by ALL the saints, I will tell about ALL your adventures before leaving for the USA to your great mother-in-law.
        He looked at me carefully, my whole appearance said that not only would I do what I had planned, but also “three boxes, I’ll put a plait on top.”
        In short, he asked a question and received an answer. ORIGINAL!
        Now, think about it.
        How can you “walk” on the Moon with such “spacesuits”????
        PS
        I apologize to you for my English of that time.
        Phrases taken from English were given as an example of the level of language proficiency! hi
    2. +6
      17 September 2021
      Quote: vlad.baryatinsky
      But for the life of me, I don’t believe it

      Well, don’t believe me, what are the problems? The facts will not change. By the way, a non-zero number of earthlings do not believe that our planet is round (well, not quite perfectly round, but to a first approximation it is a ball), but believe it to be flat. And what? The shape of the planet does not change due to their disbelief. ))
      1. 0
        19 September 2021
        Quote: Sergey1964
        By the way, a non-zero number of earthlings do not believe that our planet is round (well, not quite perfectly round, but to a first approximation it is a ball), but believe it to be flat.

        Listen, recently one forum member gathered together skepticism regarding the mentioned flights, hatred of America and Yellow Stone. Now you’ve also caught up with the flat-earthers. This is similar to the technique of making your opponent look like a fool (if the editor lets it through).
        1. +1
          19 September 2021
          Quote: Motorist
          This is similar to the technique of fielding an opponent

          Supporters of the “Moon Conspiracy” are exposing themselves (by this). The theory of the “Moon conspiracy” was voiced by one American back in 1976 (Bill Kaysing, book “We have never been to the Moon”) and then all the provisions of this book were smashed to smithereens by experts. That did not stop the mentioned comrade from making a name and money from this book (the public loves conspiracies and willingly falls for the “yellow press”). All the provisions of the theory and the destruction of these provisions by professionals are available on the Internet in Russian. But believers are such believers...

          Astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson said it very well
          Have you ever wondered what it costs to fake a moon landing? All the blueprints for the rocket and its launch, the hundreds of thousands of man-hours of well-documented engineering work, all of it must be fabricated. It seems to me that it is much easier to just fly to the moon.
          I will only add that it would be necessary to fabricate not just 1 flight, but 6 (six) landings and 3 (three) manned flybys of the Moon. And this is in a country where there is a press that is greedy for sensations, independent of the government, and an opposition that dreams of siding with the ruling party and becoming the ruling party itself. And there is also the police (not afraid to detain the daughter of the current president and give her community service for drinking beer), the FBI and all sorts of Senate commissions.

          Yes, the first employee who is asked to participate in such a conspiracy (or who even suspects a conspiracy) will run to surrender to the FBI. Otherwise, he faces complicity in the theft of budget funds on an especially large scale by a group of persons by prior conspiracy (or whatever the corresponding article is called in the USA), or even treason (if he is not the first in line to turn himself in). So "snitch on your friend before your friend snitches on you."

          Even if you don’t know anything about the lunar missions, the mere impossibility of avoiding information leaks on such a scale (“What two people know, a pig knows” (c)) nullifies all theories of the “Moon Conspiracy.”
          1. 0
            20 September 2021
            Quote: Sergey1964
            And this is in a country where there is a press that is greedy for sensations, independent of the government, and an opposition that dreams of siding with the ruling party and becoming the ruling party itself. And there's also police there.

            Dear Sergey! Have you heard the official version of the assassination of John Kennedy? Do you know how many inconsistencies this version has with the facts? And nothing! Officially, Oswald is the killer. Dot!
            This is called "a good face on a bad game."
            PS: Question - You, as a person directly involved in the development of Soviet cosmonautics, probably have more, say, expanded access to information. So, tell me, when did you find out that the surface of the Moon has a brown tint? If the Moon is brown, then why did the Apollo photographs of the Moon were completely gray, and now, after the landing of the Chinese lunar rover, they began to gradually turn brown as well?
            1. 0
              20 September 2021
              Quote: Perforator
              Dear Sergey!

              Dear Sergey! (as I understand, we are namesakes)
              I am not going to discuss the Apollo program with you, any more than I am going to discuss biological evolution with creationists or the shape of the Earth with flat earthers. When I was younger and dumber, yes, I discussed it, tried to give facts and arguments... Then I realized that this was an absolutely pointless activity. If you are really interested in the details of the American landings on the Moon, you can easily find all the information on the Internet. From numerous publications in peer-reviewed journals to numerous popular science articles.
              1. 0
                20 September 2021
                Yes, we are namesakes! smile
                Quote: Sergey1964
                I'm not going to discuss the Apollo program with you,

                I did not insist and do not insist on discussing it! Moreover, I’m not trying to impose any point of view on anyone. I myself am interested in astronautics, aviation, and when I meet “live” (on forums, in chats) people closely related to this topic, I just try to communicate! On the Internet, as you advised me, there is a lot of multidirectional information - mostly of a general nature. And on many issues there is simply nothing. Regarding the topic of my question to you - it was on the Internet that I found this information - that the first Soviet color photographs of the Moon differed in the color of the surface from the American ones. So I thought that perhaps this question had arisen earlier, in the narrow circles of those connected with space.
                And now, on the NASA website, the “gray” images are slowly being replaced with “brown” ones. And it is true! I also copied those “gray” ones. And now many of them have begun to turn brown! Why does NASA recolor photographs?
                Yes, I’m probably younger than you and dumber. I'm not ashamed of this.
                This is how life works - stupid younger ones ask wise older ones!
                1. +1
                  20 September 2021
                  Quote: Perforator
                  Yes, we are namesakes! smile
                  Quote: Sergey1964
                  I'm not going to discuss the Apollo program with you,

                  I did not insist and do not insist on discussing it! Moreover, I’m not trying to impose any point of view on anyone. I myself am interested in astronautics, aviation, and when I meet “live” (on forums, in chats) people closely related to this topic, I just try to communicate! On the Internet, as you advised me, there is a lot of multidirectional information - mostly of a general nature. And on many issues there is simply nothing. Regarding the topic of my question to you - it was on the Internet that I found this information - that the first Soviet color photographs of the Moon differed in the color of the surface from the American ones. So I thought that perhaps this question had arisen earlier, in the narrow circles of those connected with space.
                  And now, on the NASA website, the “gray” images are slowly being replaced with “brown” ones. And it is true! I also copied those “gray” ones. And now many of them have begun to turn brown! Why does NASA recolor photographs?
                  Yes, I’m probably younger than you and dumber. I'm not ashamed of this.
                  This is how life works - stupid younger ones ask wise older ones!

                  1. Just because you are younger does not mean that you are dumber. Again. With varying degrees of success, I try to convince my graduate students (including foreign ones) that they (you) are smarter than us. If the younger generation believes that it is stupider than the older generation, progress will stop. The younger generation must understand that they are smarter than the older ones. It really is smarter. We gave them (you) everything we could, and then they (you) use it as a springboard and surpass us. A student who surpasses the teacher is the highest reward for a teacher; you can die in peace, your life was not lived in vain.
                  2. Write to me at [email protected]. I will put you in touch with colleagues from the aerospace industry and make recommendations. I’ll put you in touch with a bunch of domestic and foreign colleagues and ask them to answer your questions. People owe me a lot in scientific terms (I do the work for them, and they don't do it for me), so they will have a chance to work off some of the debt.
                  1. +1
                    20 September 2021
                    PS
                    As for the debt - of course, it's a joke. But it's not really a joke. There are unwritten rules in our circles. If you do something for someone, then that someone owes you. Of course, this is all informal, on friendly terms and all that. But in your case, I guarantee that your colleagues will answer you. :)
  59. 0
    17 September 2021
    Quote: Martyn
    Wow, so many experts on space developments! Wow, how ashamed they all are for “closing” the development of a “super-heavy rocket” at the technical project stage! Well, “Rashka fsyo”, a shameful disgrace!

    At the same time, neither the author of the article nor the entire number of experts have ever participated in the development of space technology. They didn’t even participate in the development of non-space technology. They are unable to distinguish the technical design stage from the preliminary design stage. They also don’t know how “letter O” differs from “letter O1”. But to gush about something about which they have not the slightest idea is welcome.

    Finally !!! A “specialist” came and explained that we glue models at 1,5 yards, and what kind of GOST frames you would see in the drawings. Dear “pro,” I have two questions for you: how much does it cost to launch your Gost model kits and isn’t the circle of modellers from the ROSCOSMOS Palace of Pioneers too expensive for the Russian Federation?
  60. 0
    17 September 2021
    Quote: Sergey1964
    This was a preamble designed to emphasize that I, in general, am aware of the medical, biological and environmental problems of human presence in space and/or on the surface of celestial bodies. So, I am deeply convinced that Space is not for humans.

    What about the Arctic for humans? And Antarctica? What about the bottom of the ocean? The world we live in is quite harsh, why do we want to get comfortable conditions in space?
    1. +2
      18 September 2021
      Quote: Slippery
      What about the Arctic for humans? And Antarctica?

      In the Arctic and Antarctic, gravity is familiar to humans and you can breathe without a spacesuit.
      Quote: Slippery
      What about the bottom of the ocean?

      I don't think it's for humans. Of course, it is possible to ensure the survival of the crew there - but why? To graze starfish?
      Quote: Slippery
      The world we live in is quite harsh

      Yes, that’s why a lot of territories on the globe are simply not populated.
      Quote: Slippery
      why do we want to get comfortable conditions in space?

      The main question is why? The lion's share of scientific information was provided not by human crews, but by machine guns. At the same time, machines are constantly being improved, but a person remains a person, with all the ensuing problems.
      1. 0
        18 September 2021
        Have you watched The Matrix? There's an answer to your question.
        1. +1
          18 September 2021
          Quote: Morrrow
          Have you watched The Matrix?

          Watched.
          Quote: Morrrow
          There's an answer to your question.

          I don’t remember the answer to the question “Why do we need manned astronautics?” I repeat, the lion's share of scientific information was brought (and continues to be brought here and now) by automatic machines. No, I have no doubt that in the future humanity will plant flags in all the celestial bodies of the solar system that it can reach. Humanity has this property - if there is Everest (North Pole, South Pole, Mariana Trench, a cave of the highest category of complexity...), then there will definitely be people who will storm the heights and depths. In addition, sticking a flag into a celestial body is prestigious from a political point of view.

          But my personal forecast is that for people in the future, space will simply turn into an object of extreme tourism, just like the Himalayas are now. And the research will be carried out by automatic machines. Well, perhaps they will still fly into orbit to assemble/maintain some structures - if some production facilities are moved into near-Earth space.

          As for the Russian program, as I already wrote, I strongly suspect that the manned program will be gradually phased out. Only launches in the interests of the military, communications, navigation and remote sensing of the Earth will remain. And this will happen gradually. As long as the ISS is working, they will fly there (although sending actors to the ISS instead of cosmonaut researchers is beyond common sense, in my opinion). Then they will survive for some time due to space tourism - until the sharks of capitalism like Musk and Bezos push Russia out of this market. Maybe they will even make their own station (although I doubt that Russia will pull off something more complex than Salyut-7, and it’s not a fact that Salyut-7 will pull it off - see the epic with Luna-25). At the same time, manned flights will occur less and less often and will eventually disappear. And no one will notice - just as they did not notice the cessation of AMS flights.
  61. 0
    17 September 2021
    Quote: Mitroha
    not disgraced (actually disgraced)

    unexpected (not really) ending

    Roman, are you 12 and a pimply pubescent youth? Where does this idiotic style come from?

    Well, you are certainly a treasure trove of intelligence, you can see it a kilometer away! It’s not clear why you’re wasting your precious time here, you’re not a troll, are you?! winked
  62. 0
    17 September 2021
    Interesting opinion.
    Roscosmos is now just a sawmill.
    Although at the moment there are no special tasks in space.
    So why not cut it.
  63. +3
    17 September 2021
    Roman, thank you for your sober analysis of the tales about “the Americans who didn’t fly to the moon” - sometimes patriotism turns off people’s brains, and they begin to believe in modern fairy tales.
    For us, Roscosmos lives like an ambulance in a song - it drives itself, it presses on itself, it gives help itself. In the States, the management structure comes down to a qualified customer - NASA - who implements the strategy adopted by Congress, demands results from contractors and organizes competition. Until the state customer is separated from us, subordinated to the Duma (I don’t believe that the government is capable of strategic projects) and private owners are not allowed into the industry, there will be no sense.
    1. 0
      18 September 2021
      sometimes patriotism turns off people's brains

      All that remains is to find out what is so “patriotic” about banal ignorance and obscurantism...
    2. +1
      18 September 2021
      For us, Roscosmos lives like an ambulance in a song - it drives itself, it presses on itself, it gives help itself. In the States, the management structure comes down to a qualified customer - NASA - who implements the strategy adopted by Congress, demands results from contractors and organizes competition. Until the state customer is separated from us and subordinated to the Duma

      The main feature of our state is that Roscosmos can be subordinated to even the President, even the Government, even the Duma, even the governor of the Moscow region, it will still be controlled by Rogozin or his equivalent, with similar results.
      The main problem is the leader of the country and the system he created, which is not capable of creation, we now have a lot of money in the country, a lot of this money is spent on something and is spent so ineffectively and stupidly that we have no right to count on a result at all, there will be one can not. Who could put the idiot Rogozin in charge of space programs? Only even greater, and this fully explains all our failures in all industries over the past 20 years.
  64. -2
    17 September 2021
    After all, the lunar probes returned back with a second cosmic speed, greater than the orbital speed, 11 m/s.

    Firstly km/sec.
    Secondly, the speed itself is controversial. Because the mass of the Moon is 6 times less than the mass of the Earth, therefore the second cosmic mass when leaving the Moon’s orbit is much smaller. IMHO.
  65. The comment was deleted.
  66. +2
    17 September 2021
    There will be no gardens on the Moon as long as Roscosmos is led by the Jester
  67. 0
    18 September 2021
    An alternative view on this problem: https://youtu.be/gPpJMc-LLyk
    Evening with Dmitry Konanykhin No. 76 "Yenisei"? Ciao bambino sorry"
  68. -1
    18 September 2021
    Yes, everything is as it is. Nothing to add..,
    Well, maybe...
    There is no Stalin on them!
  69. The comment was deleted.
  70. -3
    18 September 2021
    A grated article from the Polish gentlemen.
    And all why - in order to erase NASA’s announcement that they will not fly to the Moon in 2024!
    Yes, yes - the announcement was oh-ho-ho - so the Pole stirred up a grater against Roscosmos.
    ---
    And that NASA - its Chief Auditor announced on August 10th that the one BILLION dollars required for DEVELOPMENT OF SPACES - oopssss - is not there!
    Do you need a link or do you know how to speak English?
    ==========================================
    That is, it is NOT ROSCOSMOS that is flying to the moon, but NASA!
    DUE TO THE LACK OF SPACESUITS!!! Charles!!!
    ---
    That is, not only will NASA not fly to the Moon, but IT DIDN’T FLY THERE AT ALL!!!
    ==========================================
    Pisyun about Roscosmos and “photos from reflectors” in such conditions is pure Polish hubbub, for Russian pinocchios.
    What the hell are photos from reflectors!?
  71. -1
    18 September 2021
    Well, in the finale they generally exaggerated the colors. Just who was the first will be known to humanity hundreds of years from now, just as now any schoolchild knows that Columbus discovered America :).
  72. 0
    18 September 2021
    This is a very unusual material for Skomorokhov. The main reason for all our failures today is the leadership of the country, criminal and stupid, there are no other reasons. There is money, resources, competent and smart people, there is not only one, smart and far-sighted leader, the current one is busy collecting trinkets and lining his pockets.
  73. Lad
    0
    18 September 2021
    Quote: ramzay21
    This is a very unusual material for Skomorokhov. The main reason for all our failures today is the leadership of the country, criminal and stupid, there are no other reasons. There is money, resources, competent and smart people, there is not only one, smart and far-sighted leader, the current one is busy collecting trinkets and lining his pockets.

    Unfortunately, everything is not so simple. You are confusing causes and effects. Leadership is only a consequence. Even if ALL management is replaced at one point, exactly the same team will take their place. The reason is in the system. In society itself, in its organization.
  74. The comment was deleted.
  75. 0
    18 September 2021
    A high-quality and very objective article. Plus for the author.
  76. +1
    19 September 2021
    Actions are higher than words!
    The lack of significant results despite significant injections of budget funds over many years is the basis for the dismissal of “effective managers and valuable specialists.”
    In fact, “valuable specialists” have turned into “stone assholes.” I read on the Internet the story of a young engineer about how he, being an enthusiast, went to work for a small salary (he wanted to participate in the creation of rockets). A group of pensioners guarding warm budget places, not wanting decisive and daring projects and decisions, alas, the young ones are leaving.
    Does everyone remember how they mocked Musk’s American project? A crazy idea and a team of young, inexperienced designers (at least most of them) and now what? The result is the capture of the satellite launch market due to the emergence of a new generation of rockets. The point is not only in the reusable first stage, but also in new production technologies, in the competent choice of engine parameters. Let me remind you of the efforts of Academician Glushko in destroying the line of engines with moderate parameters (Kuznetsov’s design) and the birth of a line of engines with maximum pressure parameters. Specific impulse records lead to complexity records and, most importantly, PRICES!
    The Falcon engine does not shine compared to Glushko, but it is more practical and more profitable. By the way, the main advantage of the Soyuz is the cost of the engines (I read an example a long time ago, the price of a product at the Soyuz is several hundred thousand dollars and the price of a product for the first stage of Zenit is 20 million dollars...)
  77. +1
    19 September 2021
    Quote: Vadim237
    You wrote this crap about closure.

    Have you read the article? ))) They didn’t close it, but postponed it, not an explosion, but a bang.
    Quote: Vadim237
    Musk probably attracted and continues to attract people to the development of the company, and given that the company is private and compact, it is not burdened with state management bureaucracy, so everything is done there quickly and cheaper.

    I gave you proof of the report of the NASA inspector, where everything is written out, it’s our deputies who write whatever they want in the tax return, and the Yankers are savages and imprisoned for tax crimes. Therefore, which ones are “for sure”? There are official figures where everything is written out. Or are the official numbers not for you?
    Quote: Vadim237
    And while all 180000 workers are engaged in one super-heavy lift, there are plenty of other areas, including military space.

    I understand, you are unlikely to go to the website of the Arbitration Court, ELEVEN claims from the Moscow Region, guess who the defendant is? So many satellites for the Ministry of Defense are not launched, as many are being sued. Model lawyers from RKS.
    Raise your eyes, the score is on the scoreboard, but it doesn’t matter how many corners they gave me.
  78. 0
    20 September 2021
    Again, someone has disgraced himself at Skomorokhov’s.
    Boring.
  79. +1
    20 September 2021
    In 2021, only buffoons can believe in the American flights to the moon 52 years ago.
  80. 0
    21 September 2021
    Quote: Vadim237
    It will be and it is created according to the same components RD 0169 for Amur LNG

    It has already been “created” for 25 years, and they promise to tinker for another 5 years. Compare this to the story of the Raptora's creation.
  81. 0
    22 September 2021
    Well, of course, again an American fosterling. It’s funny how pros are given to those who support this nonsense. It seems that this topic is painfully painful for the Amers, since they spend so much effort on supporting it.
  82. The comment was deleted.
  83. 0
    October 8 2021
    Conspiracies are not fiction, but a harsh reality.
    Conspiracies exist, from small, everyday ones to global, worldwide ones.
    At the same time, the American lunar scam is not the biggest and most brazen conspiracy.
    There are bigger scams - decoupling the dollar from the gold standard, rewriting history, the Second World War, but the American lunar scam is just a small thing.
  84. 0
    November 13, 2021
    Approx.
    Well, for example, we created a lunar spacesuit, a lunar ship and a lunar rocket. What next?
    They amused their emergency situation and that’s it.
    We need to concentrate our efforts on creating our own orbital station. Let the Americans play another lunar race with the Chinese.

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