Military Review

Carefully! Asiatic cholera

103
Carefully! Asiatic cholera

As we can see from the example of one Donbass village, cholera and typhus are annual and regular guests, and not only in the south, where accelerated industrialization and urbanization created conditions for the development of any infection, in more traditional provinces it was no better:


The cholera epidemic that has gripped almost the entire Oryol province begins, as the provincial government notes, in which the whole matter of combating this most fierce enemy of man is concentrated, is weakening in almost all districts. Although, however, the future is still dark and now, it may be still premature to squander your hopes for the best, since this phenomenon at the moment is a simple routine.

And not only there.

Only the sixth cholera pandemic lasted intermittently from 1899 to 1923 throughout the Russian Empire. The number six is ​​just evidence that there have been five previous pandemics. And they were fierce - the first cholera pandemic broke out in 1817, it was then in Russia that the first cases were recorded in Astrakhan. During the third pandemic of 1837-1851, almost 700 people died in Russia alone.

In 1848, 60-100 soldiers perished from cholera in the Russian army of Field Marshal Paskevich in Galicia every day. In the Russian Empire then, according to official data, 1 people fell ill, 772 died. Several waves of cholera were observed until 439.

There were seven pandemics in total (the last one stands alone, the middle of the XNUMXth century), they all came out of India, collected huge victims and forced humanity to dramatically change their habits and lifestyle.

There was no particular choice, the disease spread to the most remote corners of the planet, except, of course, Antarctica.

Already during the third pandemic, the first international sanitary conference of 12 countries was held, and the rapid development of medicine and utilities began.

Causes


They are, in fact, on the surface.

In the XNUMXth century, the processes of the Industrial Revolution and urbanization began abruptly, international trade was established and developed, and numerous colonial wars took place. The first causes an explosive growth in the population of cities, with a complete lack of planning, sewerage and normal waste collection, plus a shortage of sources of drinking water, the second provokes the rapid movement of goods and people around the planet. The era of coal and steam has brought humanity not only good, but also a pandemic, a century long with millions of victims.

The next reason is colonies.

Thus, cholera entered Britain with soldiers returning from India.

Another is wars. Descriptions of almost any war of this period abound not only in the number of victims of bullets and shells, but also in the number of victims of gastrointestinal infections. Moreover, infections often killed more than the enemy. And then, at the end of the wars, the soldiers returned home, bringing with them not only awards and scars, but also Vibrio cholerae.

Another reason is crowding.

The era that can rightfully be called the era of tightness. Armies are growing sharply, with a shortage of barracks, factories and factories are built before housing, and people huddle in barracks without amenities, masses of migrants and pilgrims float on ships across the ocean, at best in small cabins, at worst in holds without normal sanitary conditions ...

It all worked together, and habits, or rather their absence, helped. So, people did not understand that it was necessary to boil water, that one should not drink and cook food on water from reservoirs, that one should not buy ready-made food and drinks on the street from the lotters, that fruits and vegetables should be washed, and meat should be heat-treated ... also understood that personal hygiene is protection. Cholera gave us a modern understanding of the significance of this factor:


All this had to be learned through the corpses.

We can say that cholera changed the world.

Population reaction


Fear always leads to denial of the problem, it has been so in all centuries, and the XNUMXth century was no exception.

People were afraid, and this fear, given the low literacy, led to rather strange conclusions and decisions. So, in St. Petersburg, rumors circulated that the sick doctors were dumping into a deep hole, in the provinces ... the term "cholera riot" has long been a sad reality.

The events in Tambov in 1830 can serve as an example of such a riot.

At first, the peasants of the village of Nikolskoye wanted to cook the doctor in boiling water (he forced the patients to take a hot bath), then the townspeople began to beat off the patients transported to hospitals. Further more - a rumor spread about the poisoning of wells by local landowners, which was confirmed by the vice-governor (his wife and two children died of cholera within a week).

And 26 November blazed.

A crowd of five thousand people captured the governor, smashed the infectious diseases hospital, destroying all laboratories and medicines, they wanted to kill the doctors, but they managed to escape. As a result, three days of riot, 82 tradesmen were subjected to corporal punishment, one of them died, additional troops were stationed in the city, which caused a severe outbreak of cholera with numerous victims.

There were many such stories. And not only in Russia.

Similar events took place in France, Great Britain, the Austrian Empire and Germany.

Moreover, the range of cholera pandemics is different - Russia basically rebelled in 1830-1831, France in 1817, and Germany, say, was covered in 1893, when Hamburg rebelled.

In addition to riots, there were murders of doctors, refusals to take medications, hiding of patients and violation of quarantine. Moreover, this happened regularly and in all six waves of the pandemic.

A separate outrage was caused by the emerging vaccines: it was not even people who avoided vaccination - governments. So, the Khavkin vaccine, developed in 1892, was approved for use only in India, and in Europe, vaccination was refused for a long time.

Odessa citizen Vladimir Khavkin, a knight of the British Empire, had to push his brainchild (vaccine) literally at the risk of his life: during one of the riots, the crowd wanted to kill him, saved by the fact that the scientist publicly injected himself with the vaccine.

How fought


The fight against the epidemic was hampered not so much by the lack of drugs, but by the initially incorrect message itself that the disease is caused by poisonous miasms, and not by some not Vibrio cholerae, which was discovered only in 1854, but stubbornly refused to consider the cause of the pandemic for another 30 years ...

In general, it all came down to prevention:

1. Quarantine.

2. Treatment of water sources with lime.

3. Fumigation of premises.

4. Inspection of passengers of ships.

5. Health education.

6. Isolation of patients.

The final point in cholera pandemics was put only by vaccines, the spread of cleanliness and the streamlining of urban economy, along with mass health education. If the First World War is an outbreak of cholera and gastrointestinal diseases, then the Second World War in this sense was much calmer: humanity has learned some of the basics.

Cholera and progress


As usual, any disaster pushes humanity forward, the century-old pandemic with millions of corpses was no exception. The proliferation of plumbing, sewerage systems, timely garbage disposal, increased standards of cleanliness of the body and even helping the poor are all consequences of cholera. The same as infectious diseases hospitals, field kitchens in the army, boiling water and constant cleaning of public places.

The city government has shown its activity in a number of measures to clean up the city in a sanitary sense and in the hiring of doctors and disinfectants, as well as in the construction of barracks. The local Red Cross Society has opened a cheap canteen in order to distract poor people from the bazaar, where the homeless often get far from healthy food.

Now all this has become a part of everyday life and has already become second nature to a person, the majority do not even remember why this is so and not otherwise, but at the same time, no one will return to the standards of life of their ancestors at the beginning of the XNUMXth century.

Cholera retreated under the onslaught of purity and doctors.

But it did not go away, every year a couple of cases are registered in Russia.

And we now live with Vibrio cholerae until the end of the centuries, as well as with other diseases that we managed to defeat, but not to destroy.
Author:
Photos used:
https://www.rsl.ru/
103 comments
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  1. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 14 September 2021 04: 23
    -1
    Now we will have to live forever, not only with cholera, but also with influenza, covid, and other infections ... and then you look something new will be planted by American biological laboratories generously scattered along our borders.
    So far, humanity is adapting to the existence of various viruses and bacteria by developing the necessary immunity.
    I'm more afraid that some Anglo-Saxon genius virologist will bring out a strain of a super virus
    from which there is no protection and will release him ... then humanity can cease to exist.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  2. Lynx2000
    Lynx2000 14 September 2021 04: 29
    +4
    And we now live with Vibrio cholerae until the end of the centuries, as well as with other diseases that we managed to defeat, but not to destroy.

    what In addition to "cholera riots", I think most of the participants in VO cholera, its causative agent, methods of prevention are familiar, as well as anti-dysentery. Those who visit endemic areas are aware of vaccination and disease prevention.
    That's about tick-borne borreliosis, except for encephalitis, and the plague should be known and remembered.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 14 September 2021 19: 07
      +5
      He survived two cholera carinas ... he lived about 500 meters from the "plague barracks". Although, these were not barracks, of course, it was quite a decent area behind a high fence, a boarding school from which the students were evacuated for a while.
      You can be vaccinated against some diseases, no restrictions, if health allows, free of charge. All the same, our ancestors left us a good prevention system, she is still alive ... And so, I wish everyone to take care of their health, no one will give a spare.
  3. Free wind
    Free wind 14 September 2021 04: 53
    +5
    In the USSR there was an outbreak of cholera in Astrakhan in 71. Home in some villages, the medical staff delivered home drinking water diluted with vinegar. And they explained how to prepare such water ourselves, the proportions. But in England in the 19th century there was only one outbreak. the cause was quickly discovered. well or well.
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 14 September 2021 05: 08
      +7
      Quote: Free Wind
      In the USSR there was an outbreak of cholera in Astrakhan in 71.

      in the 70s and not only in Astrakhan - Crimea, Odessa, Kherson ...
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 14 September 2021 07: 06
        +7
        Amazing
        Just a month ago I reviewed the Soviet feature film "The Orlov Family", the storyline of which is based on the background of such an epidemic of cholera at the turn of the century!
        Moreover, I watched because of the cast.
        Amazing coincidence)
        1. Overlock
          Overlock 14 September 2021 18: 26
          +4
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          Just a month ago I reviewed the Soviet feature film "The Orlov Family", the storyline of which is based on the background of such an epidemic of cholera at the turn of the century!

          2019 year. C / f "Odessa" about cholera in the city
          1. The leader of the Redskins
            The leader of the Redskins 14 September 2021 19: 12
            +2
            I will definitely take an interest. Thank you very much.
            1. Overlock
              Overlock 14 September 2021 19: 16
              +4
              Quote: Leader of the Redskins
              I will definitely take an interest.

              there are just soldiers with machine guns and a cordon. Informative
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 14 September 2021 10: 58
      +10
      well or well.
      A standpipe on Broad Street, London's Soho, 1854
  4. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 14 September 2021 05: 54
    +4
    In this case, as it turned out, the most important thing is the preparedness of the health care system for such epidemics and pandemics. And in our country, even for reposting data on the course of the coronavirus, they can be brought to administrative and criminal liability.
    For me, an example of a prompt fight against an epidemic is the case of the fight against smallpox in Moscow in 1960. And in the Crimea in 1970, cholera was also fought promptly.
    And today the president is quarantining because there are many cases of Covid-19 diseases in his environment ... And this is after the general vaccination.

    Glory to Russian insurance medicine! fellow
    1. Okolotochny
      Okolotochny 14 September 2021 09: 52
      +3
      And this is after the polls vaccination.

      Of the population of about 146 million, about 40 were vaccinated, another 7 were ill. For comparison, China, out of one and a half billion are vaccinated about 1, in the megalopolises of China about 95% of the population is vaccinated. We have about 1/3 of the population vaccinated, in China more than 2/3. So who has the most "polished"? Ross, you're not a slogan, are you? Well, are the numbers in the public domain?
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 14 September 2021 10: 31
        +7
        Quote: Okolotochny
        And this is after the general vaccination.

        Meant:
        ... the general vaccination in the environment of the president ... In the same place, only the lazy one did not boast of a photograph (video) of a bare forearm and a syringe stuck into it ...
        If you open the spoiler, everything will be clear. hi
      2. New Year day
        New Year day 14 September 2021 11: 39
        -3
        Quote: Okolotochny
        Of the population of about 146 million, about 40 were vaccinated, another 7 were ill. For comparison, China, out of one and a half billion are vaccinated about 1, in the megalopolises of China about 95% of the population is vaccinated. We have about 1/3 of the population vaccinated, in China more than 2/3. So who has the most "polished"? Ross, you're not a slogan, are you? Well, are the numbers in the public domain?

        Are you saying that vaccination reduces the incidence of Covid-19? Leave these slogans for the zombie.
        1. Okolotochny
          Okolotochny 14 September 2021 13: 15
          +2
          Sylvester, you are a physician, statistics are publicly available, China is an example of this. On the example of China, is there anything to object to, besides slogans? Or does the former Ukrainian past speak to you? Cited figures for China. Object and prove that the Chinese are lying. Do not offer videos from Tik-Tok.
          1. New Year day
            New Year day 14 September 2021 14: 05
            -2
            Quote: Okolotochny
            On the example of China, there is something to argue,

            What about you with China?
            Take Israel?
            1. Okolotochny
              Okolotochny 14 September 2021 15: 40
              0
              China with 1,5 billion is not satisfied? Take 8 million Israel. After vaccination, all restrictions were removed. And if the vaccine worked for a short time, then the question is for the manufacturers. But the duration of its validity is how many cases of diseases ??? Ask the Israelis.
              1. Overlock
                Overlock 14 September 2021 18: 33
                +6
                Quote: Okolotochny
                Take 8 million Israel. After vaccination, all restrictions were removed.

                Do you read Israeli newspapers or just listen to Skabeeva?
                1.SEPTEMBER 13, 2021 https://www.9tv.co.il/item/34153

                "unfortunately, the fourth wave could not be defeated.
                The number of seriously ill patients is growing. We understood that the beginning of the school year and mass gatherings would increase the incidence of diseases. "
                The current policy of the medical elite is in line with the general line of the government, according to which “one should live side by side with the“ covid. ”“ We will no longer be locked in our homes until the victory over the covid.
                2. https://www.mk.ru/social/2021/09/03/silneyshney-vspyshke-koronavirusa-v-izraile-nashli-novoe-nepravilnoe-obyasnenie.html
                In Israel, where the authorities reported a complete victory over COVID-19 in the spring, a phenomenal surge in incidence was recorded.
                Today, many COVID-19 specialists have turned out to be laymen. Because if they knew exactly the reasons for such a situation, they would understand how to act correctly.
                Reassurance that the country was almost the first in the world to "vaccinate almost the entire population" (although in reality this turned out to be wrong - now 64,38% of Israelis are vaccinated, 58,99% received two doses), and the vaccine itself provides powerful protection in 90–95% turned out to be just a zilch. Today, a significant number of twice vaccinated Israelis are in serious condition in hospitals, and the effectiveness of the drug against COVID-19 is no more than 40%.
          2. Svarog
            Svarog 15 September 2021 18: 42
            +3
            Quote: Okolotochny
            Sylvester, you are a physician, statistics are publicly available, China is an example of this.

            China, despite the vaccinated population polls .. closed another city for quarantine .. Why would, when everyone is vaccinated, well, or almost everything? Israel .. the same .. for some reason you stubbornly miss the fact that the virus mutates constantly .. I've been vaccinated against the flu several times .. and the roofing felts were not guessed with the strain, the roofing felts .. well, in general, I was sick, it was always very strong after vaccination .. Coincidence?
    2. rocket757
      rocket757 14 September 2021 19: 10
      +4
      Quote: ROSS 42
      .And this is after the general vaccination.

      And vaccination, even universal, saves from infection ???
      Where is this written, they said, officially, the people are authorized to do so? Did I miss something?
      1. Shahno
        Shahno 14 September 2021 19: 15
        +5
        Yes, if you are so far from medicine ..
        Vaccination does not save, it reduces the risk of infection and the severity of the consequences.
        Then it all depends on the details ...
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 14 September 2021 19: 27
          +5
          It’s clear to me, there’s someone to ask, I’m asking someone who is hinting at something ... like, since everyone is vaccinated, there is nothing to fear.
          1. New Year day
            New Year day 14 September 2021 23: 37
            +2
            Quote: rocket757
            like that, since everyone is vaccinated, then there is nothing to fear.

            Why then did Putin quarantine - I am sure that his entourage has already been vaccinated 20 times
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 15 September 2021 05: 57
              +1
              20 times, why?
              For such a period, they could have time to be revaccinated once, nothing more.
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 14 September 2021 19: 38
          +1
          reduces the risk of infection
          Does not reduce. My electrician (34 years old) was vaccinated at the beginning of June. After a month and a half, he became infected.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 15 September 2021 06: 00
            +3
            Your electrician is ill, of course .... that's just DECREASES and EXCLUDES, different concepts.
      2. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 14 September 2021 19: 24
        +1
        Quote: rocket757
        And vaccination, even universal, saves from infection ???

        Victor! It is enough to see how Maria Kiseleva from The Weakest Link makes her statements ... lol
        Not only does it not save, and there are facts. I do not have a special medical education and can only assume that some types of vaccines only contribute to the mutation of the virus that has entered the body of the vaccinated ... You will not deny that in most cases (types of disease) vaccination helps to avoid serious consequences ... Therefore, man assumes, and God ... Maybe in this way he decided to cleanse the Earth from the most dangerous VIRUS:

        hi
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 14 September 2021 19: 40
          +5
          Pts I advise you to listen to the SPECIALISTS.
          By the way, can you find out why I call unvaccinated AIDS patients an INCUBATOR FOR MUTATIONS!
          Very informative and scary at the same time.
          And so an example from life, right next to it.
          One room, 7 people of different ages and with their own sores and ... almost all vaccinated, for example, I am older than everyone, with the largest set of sores and a record holder, have already REVACINED. I was grafted into the first thousand in the city.
          We have one shot, not being vaccinated for POLITICAL MOTIVES, as he says ... he got sick! All the rest, at most, were the rest ... I have a terrible runny nose and then from the flowering quinoa ... we stayed on the watch, another week and EVERYTHING.
          His whole family is ill, his mother is very hard ...
          I'm not at all sure that he will be vaccinated after that.
  5. ee2100
    ee2100 14 September 2021 06: 22
    +9
    Not "cleanliness and doctors" salvation from cholera. First of all, properly organized anti-epidemic measures save from cholera, and this should be done by the authorities. And only on their competent and decisive actions depends the success of the fight, in this case with cholera.
    1970 showed that with a prompt response, it was possible to stop the epidemic in the shortest possible time.
    1. Blacksmith 55
      Blacksmith 55 14 September 2021 08: 34
      +11
      It is not surprising that there are outbreaks of cholera and other infections.
      Surprising (excuse me) the stupidity of some people, and at the same time educated.
      In July, an acquaintance called me (secondary school + vocational school), so he explained to me that in September EVERYONE who is vaccinated against covid will die.
      Dear members of the forum, I am not campaigning to vaccinate, everyone must decide for himself.
      But no matter how I tried to explain to him his delusion, like peas against a wall, it's useless.
      If in the 19th century most people were illiterate, then how to understand such "smart people" in our time?
      1. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 14 September 2021 09: 56
        +7
        Recently he buried a relative and the first leader, who accepted me into the service and gave me a start in life. Their family is from the category of "covid dissidents". Two days before his death, he called his brother-in-law with the words: "... do not listen to anyone, my ... your sister too. This is a terrible thing (covid), get vaccinated." This is how, in fact, a mandate came from the other world.
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 14 September 2021 14: 18
          -2
          Quote: Okolotochny
          This is a terrible thing (covid), get vaccinated. "

          I moved to my feet so what? Who's as lucky
          1. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny 14 September 2021 15: 42
            +3
            Again slogans. Only a few died with the vaccine, hundreds of thousands without it. So what? Lucky?
            1. Overlock
              Overlock 14 September 2021 18: 34
              +7
              Quote: Okolotochny
              Again slogans. Only a few died with the vaccine, hundreds of thousands without it.

              Do not deign to give statistics of deaths after vaccination! Otherwise, it doesn't work without numbers.
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 14 September 2021 21: 04
                +2
                A colleague died after the second vaccination. At the age of 67. I began to vaccinate for the trip. I wonder if there are enough reliable statistics. It would be interesting to see.
                1. bk316
                  bk316 15 September 2021 12: 12
                  +3
                  I wonder if there are enough reliable statistics.

                  Of course have. As long as I remember. The likelihood of getting sick at all (depending on the strain) is reduced on average by 80%. The probability of a severe course is 93%. This is by satellite.
                  There are isolated cases of the deceased, so they are statistically unreliable. Read GOST R ISO 7870-2-2015 laughing
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 15 September 2021 18: 16
                    0
                    At one time I read different standards.

                    For the family of the deceased, it is probably comforting to hear about isolated cases.
                    1. bk316
                      bk316 15 September 2021 19: 03
                      +2
                      For the family of the deceased, it is probably comforting to hear about isolated cases.

                      There is no choice, because otherwise you will have to hear not about one deceased in the family, but the whole families who have died. My neighbors at the dacha in Ostashkov are a big family - 8 people. Three died. Three more became disabled and they were not given disability. Infected at the funeral of the first disease.
                      1. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 15 September 2021 20: 05
                        0
                        There are a lot of incomprehensible things. And, as usual, policy decisions outweigh research findings.
          2. Shahno
            Shahno 14 September 2021 20: 29
            +3
            I have endured a lot. On foot.
            But it is not entirely correct to say that the vaccine is a bluff.
          3. bk316
            bk316 15 September 2021 12: 05
            0
            I moved to my feet so what? Who's as lucky

            Well, yes, this is always the case. Throw a coin to make an eagle fall - how lucky. And you're lucky with a probability of 0.5. You fly on an airplane so as not to crash - how lucky you are. And you're lucky with a probability of 0.9999
            So it is with the vaccine. You may die and not notice how the covid suffered. Only vaccination changes the probability towards an easy flow by orders of magnitude.
          4. Pushkar
            Pushkar 15 September 2021 15: 01
            +2
            Quote: Silvestr
            I moved to my feet so what? Who's as lucky
            I am not young and therefore a lot of sores. Therefore, they vaccinated KoviVak. I picked up covid between the first and second vaccinations, i.e. there were no antibodies yet. On the 4th there was the second injection, and on the 10th I was already in the hospital, in the red zone. 5 days on oxygen, on the 24th he was discharged. I asked the head of the department if this vaccination helps, answered - "of course, otherwise you would have been taken to another department" and showed me to the morgue. You, Sylvester, have good health, I wish you to keep it, just do not rely on luck. "Once luck, two luck, have mercy on God, you need skill!" A.V. Suvorov.
      2. awdrgy
        awdrgy 14 September 2021 12: 17
        +4
        Obviously, asymptomatic and mild cases are the overwhelming majority. It is also worth taking into account the age characteristics during the course of the disease. And trust in vaccination is determined primarily by trust in those who vaccinate and only in the second degree of education. Therefore, such a situation.
        1. bk316
          bk316 15 September 2021 12: 16
          +1
          And trust in vaccination is determined primarily by trust in those who vaccinate and only in the second degree of education.

          This is a controversial statement. More precisely, not even so. These are two dependent reasons, so it is difficult to single out their independent influence.
          Here, in my department, all but one person were vaccinated, some of them even probably should not. So everyone has a higher technical or natural science, except for this one.
          1. awdrgy
            awdrgy 15 September 2021 20: 07
            +1
            And in my school, on the contrary, most tried to excuse themselves in various ways (fortunately, age and the presence of a bunch of sores allows) - not everyone succeeded ... The overwhelming majority have higher education, although I would not divide education into higher education and the rest. While still getting his third, I realized that a person is either educated or not. And this determines his ability, including for critical thinking and self-study.
            And the fact that you gave an example of this guy? -Well, it's just an anecdote. I can cite a similar one (also from life). Province ... a family of 6 people. All in one house in three rooms. The three are bad ... suspicion of the crown. Until the results came (as it was not very quickly, to put it mildly), everything was already on the mend. In five it was confirmed (of which 1 was asymptomatic and 2 in a mild form). They took it again - indeed, one had no antibodies, no symptoms. In general, I was not sick, not sick and is not going to. So the anecdote is that it is he who is the drinker)), although he is far from the youngest. And this is not the only case. People were pleasantly surprised by the presence of such a compelling reason to justify their own vice.)))
            Now, here's how to find out the relationship between trust in those who vaccinate, education, the presence of incomprehensible immunity to the sore in some and the use of strong alcohol in the evenings?)))
            1. bk316
              bk316 16 September 2021 12: 02
              0
              Now, here's how to find out the relationship between trust in those who vaccinate, education, the presence of incomprehensible immunity to the sore in some and the use of strong alcohol in the evenings?)))

              How, for this, correlation analysis exists.
              Such a thick blue textbook laughing we called it the second brick. The first is the mathematical analysis Sadovnichy, Sendov.
              1. awdrgy
                awdrgy 17 September 2021 23: 00
                +1
                I'm afraid in this case the relationship is not a correlation, although it is statistical, of course.)) And how to determine r "confidence" in "immunity"? Even if there is a non-linear relationship here ...
      3. rocket757
        rocket757 14 September 2021 19: 15
        +2
        Quote: Blacksmith 55
        In July, an acquaintance called me (high school + vocational school), so he explained to me that in September EVERYONE who is vaccinated against covid will die

        It’s dumb! I had already been revaccinated, I had eye-to-eye contact with the sick (our only anti-Vaxer, for political reasons), and now I have a terrible NUGHTY !!! Maybe it is IT ??? Although no, quinoa blooms, an infection, it is the same every year and without vaccinations.
        1. bk316
          bk316 15 September 2021 12: 16
          +1
          I was already revaccinated,

          If it's not a secret how were you vaccinated and revaccinated?
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 15 September 2021 12: 56
            +2
            A companion in February, now Light.
            No reaction, not then, not now ... the spouse was moping for exactly one day, after 1 and 2 vaccinations, but she picks up any infection at one, two, immunity is not ah ...
            By the way, she's also about to go, but now her allergies are worse than mine, she wants to wait a month.
            All my relatives are vaccinated with Sputnik, except for two, very smart nieces ...
            1. bk316
              bk316 15 September 2021 14: 25
              +2
              A companion in February, now Light.

              Thanks to me, it's time to revaccinate too ...
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 15 September 2021 15: 27
                +1
                We have everything exactly, the application, the list, they bring it to the plant, to the dignity unit ... if someone doesn’t come, they let him go home. Choice of vaccine.
                The plant is private, but enforcement measures are going to be introduced !!! Many were sick and not all of them ended well. By the way, the explanatory campaign is carried out reasonably. They invited specialists from the hospital ...
                1. bk316
                  bk316 15 September 2021 16: 25
                  +1
                  We have everything exactly, the application, the list, they bring it to the plant, to the dignity unit ... if someone doesn’t come, they let him go home. Choice of vaccine.

                  Well done. In our company, everything is crooked, but in general it is also reasonable.
                  Unfortunately in most places this is not the case .....
    2. New Year day
      New Year day 14 September 2021 11: 42
      0
      Quote: ee2100
      Not "cleanliness and doctors" salvation from cholera. Rescues from cholera, first of all, properly organized anti-epidemic measures

      you are not quite right. During my internship at the N. Filchenkov large landing craft in the distant 82nd the crew was struck by an ailment - dysentery. The commander did not advertise this feat to his superiors, but turned to us, medical trainees, for help. After 3 days, the ship returned to combat formation.
  6. Olgovich
    Olgovich 14 September 2021 08: 05
    -4
    From the messages of the KGB, 1970:
    "The disease showed that sanitary and epidemiological services are not ready for epidemics, they cannot effectively fight them. This is due to the weak legal status of these services ", - Yuri Pilipenko, surgeon of the second city hospital of Ivano-Frankivsk.

    “Just think what could happen if the enemy used bacteria like cholera in a possible war. After all, the people, medicine are completely unprepared, we do not know what cholera is, how to deal with it", - M. Yanovsky, an employee of the Dnepropetrovsk plant of relay devices.

    “In this matter, I am outraged by the fact that our medical newspapers and literature in general have finished to the point that, they say, we, in a socialist society, cannot have such diseases as plague and cholera. In this regard, there is no prophylaxis against intestinal diseases were not carried out, there was no supervision. Now, as it turned out and as they began to write, we have a lot of intestinal diseases. So where is the logic? And when will this chatter be over? " - an employee of the Kiev aircraft plant M

    The Frenchwoman wrote: "The departure was terrible. People were fighting to get on the train, there was panic, everyone was afraid that they would not be able to leave. We drove either standing or sitting on the floor,"


    From a leaflet in Odessa on behalf of Brezhnev:
    “Comrades, be courageous and freedom-loving, do not intend to die quickly. You better suffer a little, as your ancestors once suffered.


    Our family also got into this batch - they had a rest near Odessa. As soon as rumors spread about an "outbreak of intestinal diseases," my father abruptly gathered us in for a train to Odessa and then on a diesel engine. WHAT was happening at the station and WHAT was happening in the diesel engine, which was stormed through the doors and open windows, cannot be described. How nobody was crushed is incomprehensible. We drove standing all the way ... Some of our friends managed to get out on buses along the field roads, someone got stuck in quarantine ...

    And - rumors, rumors, one more terrible than the other, no intelligible information from the officialdom ...
    1. ee2100
      ee2100 14 September 2021 09: 36
      +7
      If your comment to mine. Check out the goals and objectives of the Sanitary and Epidemiological Service in the USSR. If the KGB cites the opinion of some surgeon, worker, etc. sowing panic is one thing, but the opinion of experts is completely different. Anti-epidemic measures, with the filing of epidemiologists, were taken by the headquarters for the fight, for example, cholera, and others had to carry them out. Control over the implementation of these measures was also entrusted to local SES.
      The USSR had such a luxury, in contrast to the developed capitalist countries, as the Sanitary and Epidemiological Service. The mandate of this service has been sufficiently targeted. You can familiarize yourself with the relevant documents.
      In 1970 he was a high school student, lived 150 km from Odessa. Everybody knew cholera in Odessa. It was possible to enter Odessa with passes and it did not bother anyone. The neighbors had relatives in Odessa, so they communicated with them on the phone. There was no panic in the city. In October, all activities were completed.
      And the fact that thanks to quarantine measures it was possible to avoid the worst consequences, no one remembers the "bloody totalitarian regime"
      It should be added that doctors are constantly sowing cholera pathogens in the waters of the southern regions of Ukraine and Crimea.
      Sporadic morbidity remained as it was, with a different percentage of deaths.
      It's like a small, for now, biological bomb.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 14 September 2021 10: 16
        -2
        Quote: ee2100
        ... If the KGB cites the opinion of some surgeon, worker, etc. sowing panic uh

        panic was sown, first of all, by the authorities themselves by hushing up the pandemic in front of the population - there were no official press reports about cholera, which gave rise to rumors and panic
        Quote: ee2100
        The USSR had such a luxury, in contrast to the developed capitalist countries, as the Sanitary and Epidemiological Service.

        The USSR had a SES and a cholera epidemic, while England, the USA and France with an absent SES did not.
        Quote: ee2100
        ... Odessa, so they communicated with them on the phone. There was no panic in the city.

        I saw panic at the train station in Odessa when the diesel was stormed. Now I wouldn't go there for anything
        Quote: ee2100
        And the fact that thanks to quarantine measures it was possible to avoid the worst consequences, no one remembers the "bloody totalitarian regime"

        the quarantine was "full of holes" - many made their way home one way or another.

        What has been done well is identifying the sick and isolating their families and their environment and, also, washing Odessa to a shine. It worked well here.

        But the problem of leaky sewers, storm sewers, water supply systems and treatment facilities in Odessa was not solved either then, and even more so now
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. ee2100
          ee2100 14 September 2021 11: 07
          +8
          I did not read newspapers at that time, therefore I will not say anything about the media. Everyone knew about cholera in Odessa. Parents were communists and they were informed about it at party meetings. And each one individually had a conversation with me. At least this is better than the modern hysteria about Covid.
          "The USSR had a SES and a cholera epidemic, but England, the USA and France with an absent SES did not have it" (c)
          True, but you forget to mention that the USSR bordered directly with the "disadvantaged" countries, but the USA, England and France did not. And here it is necessary to take into account such a factor as the incubation period. A patient with cholera can easily be identified on the ship and isolated, and at that time, the zasrants did not fly by air.
          SES is not only epidemiologists, but also doctors of other specialties.
          I agree with the sewerage system and water supply 100. What to do ?! What they had, they had. This is still the case in many cities.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 14 September 2021 11: 36
            -2
            Quote: ee2100
            Everyone knew about cholera in Odessa.

            there were cholera in Chisinau and they also knew everything, but not from newspapers, but from popular rumor, there were announcements about the need for hygiene, bleach was poured into Veda and everywhere, but the sick and families were isolated and carried
            Quote: ee2100
            I agree with the sewerage system and water supply 100. What to do ?! What they had, they had. This is still the case in many cities.

            Even in London, FORTY% of treated drinking water is used for leaks - 915 thousand m3, so ...
      2. New Year day
        New Year day 14 September 2021 11: 48
        0
        Quote: ee2100
        If the KGB cites the opinion of some surgeon, worker, etc. sowing panic is one thing, but the opinion of experts is completely different.



        Quote: Olgovich
        panic was sown, first of all, by the authorities themselves by hushing up the pandemic in front of the population - there were no official press reports about cholera, which gave rise to rumors and panic

        From Odessa on August 6 and 7, 1970, 50 thousand people were taken out by trains, buses and planes. And the next day, the city authorities introduced a full-fledged quarantine: Odessa and the surrounding area were cordoned off by troops and police, observation became mandatory for those leaving.
        On August 8, the order was given to close all pioneer camps and set up observation points in them. For people who have accumulated at railway stations and did not have housing in Odessa, berths have been prepared in passenger trains. From 6 pm, the city with the adjoining rural areas was cordoned off by a dense cordon of troops. The movement of passenger trains was stopped, departures of aircraft, except for special flights, were canceled.
        The Ministry of Health has delivered 4,5 million convalues ​​of tetracycline and oxytetracycline to Odessa. A total of 2,3 million con-currency per 950 thousand adults and children over 4 years old.
        Quarantine, cleaning the streets of Odessa, as well as mass prophylaxis with the antibiotic tetracycline by the end of August 1970 brought the result: the epidemic began to recede.
        In total, in Odessa for the period from August 2 to September 9, about 600 carriers of vibration were identified, of which 126 people fell ill, of which 14 died.
        Other cities: in Volgograd, 30 cases were detected, in Uman - 14, Novorossiysk - 13, Makhachkala - 12, Tiraspol - 8, Saratov and Kirov - 6 each, Kuibyshev - 5, Chisinau - 4. Single cases of the disease were recorded in Moscow, Leningrad , Perm and a dozen other cities.
  7. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 14 September 2021 09: 04
    +9
    I remember well the outbreak of cholera in 70. Even a few students in the class were late for the beginning of the school year due to the fact that they were in quarantine near Odessa.
    The outbreak was stopped quickly (by sanitary standards) and correctly.
    No one said that there was no cholera, that it was a fiction and a limitation of freedoms, that it was cutting budgets under the guise of sanitary measures, that they got into their pockets, forcing them to buy bleach, did not call for violating quarantine, not washing vegetables and fruits well, they say, from people in all the time, sometimes there was an upset stomach ...

    By the way, we have recently died a notable anti-vaccination man - one of the ideologists of the Israeli anti-Axis. The cause of his death was complications caused by coronavirus infection.
    He regularly published calls on social networks to refuse vaccinations, and called vaccines life-threatening. In addition, he argued that the coronavirus epidemic is nothing more than a fiction.
    Already in a hospital bed, he continued to conduct activities against vaccination, accused the police of "trying to poison him", and even called what was happening "an attempt to liquidate."
    Before his death, he called on his supporters to fight the state, which, in his words, "conducts criminal coercion of citizens." "Don't give up. A green passport (vaccination certificate) will not work in Israel. It has nothing to do with coronavirus or vaccinations. It's just a matter of coercion."
    1. ee2100
      ee2100 14 September 2021 09: 41
      +3
      How old was the anti-vaccine hero?
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 14 September 2021 09: 46
        +5
        Quote: ee2100
        How old was the anti-vaccine hero?

        I will not say for sure, but from the photo - 50-55 years old.
        1. ee2100
          ee2100 14 September 2021 10: 16
          +6
          It happens, most likely, that there were concomitant diseases.
          The experience of Israel and Mongolia shows that universal vaccination is not a panacea.
          A good friend died in May. They put me with a stroke, caught pneumonia in the hospital and took my body 2 weeks later. 1000% victim of Covid.
          No kidding. With a stroke, the main thing is care, but here you are quarantined. Relatives are not allowed. The main thing for the staff is to fulfill the assignment and procedures. And the rest is purple!
          1. Liam
            Liam 14 September 2021 11: 51
            -4
            Quote: ee2100
            With a stroke, the main thing is care, but here you are quarantined. Relatives are not allowed

            In your opinion, should your family take care of the patient in the hospital?
            1. ee2100
              ee2100 14 September 2021 12: 10
              +7
              Relatives, when they visit a relative, they can evaluate something objectively and something subjective. Objectively, he is not well-groomed, diapers have not been changed for a long time, bedsore prevention is not done. Subjectively, they were brought in one condition, but 2 days have passed, and he only got worse! With these pretensions to the doctor, and if it does not help, even higher.
              Clear?
              The fact that a friend received the so-called. nosocomial pneumonia - 100%, and this is the fault of the hospital. The patient himself cannot objectively assess his condition. Again, the staff is purple!
              I would not wish you to be admitted to the hospital with a serious diagnosis during the quarantine period.
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 14 September 2021 20: 59
                +1
                Agree. My classmate passed away in a similar way. There had to be a planned operation. They postponed it because of the covid. They took me by ambulance. The operation passed. Came out of intensive care. Then they returned there - and that was all. Of the close relatives, only my sister is in Ukraine. Then they barely managed to bury it.
              2. not main
                not main 14 September 2021 22: 23
                +1
                Quote: ee2100
                The fact that a friend received the so-called. nosocomial pneumonia - 100%, and this is the fault of the hospital.

                I completely agree! My father-in-law died when he was transferred from intensive care to the ward, and there everything is with ARVI! My father was in cardiology, in the ward, everyone sneezed and coughed! They are discharged home with a temperature of 38! At night we call an ambulance, a huge THANK YOU to the girls with the ambulance who then saved their father! P.S. I sent a letter of thanks to the website of the Ministry of Health, they replied that they would encourage ... I really hope!
            2. Non-fighter
              Non-fighter 14 September 2021 15: 59
              +3
              Unfortunately, there is a sad experience. As the attending physician told us. there is no magic pill. It is necessary to stretch the paralyzed limbs, roll a hedgehog ball to restore sensitivity. And adhesions in the joints. All this is work. Fortunately, everything worked out, now everything is fine, arms and legs are moving. Well, the diapers can be changed by orderlies (for an additional fee), but the recovery procedures, alas, only loving relatives in fact living in the hospital for the entire period of rehabilitation.
              1. Liam
                Liam 14 September 2021 16: 02
                0
                Without words....
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 14 September 2021 20: 53
                  +1
                  But here something like this ...
                  1. Liam
                    Liam 14 September 2021 21: 18
                    0
                    I certainly understood that not Copenhagen...
                    But what would be so ...
                    lies unkempt, diapers have not been changed for a long time

                    It is necessary to stretch the paralyzed limbs, roll a hedgehog ball to restore sensitivity. And adhesions in the joints


                    A layman, he can rather do harm with such manipulations with a patient.
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 14 September 2021 21: 26
                      +4
                      A bed patient in Russia becomes a difficult test for his loved ones.
            3. Overlock
              Overlock 14 September 2021 18: 36
              +3
              Quote: Liam
              In your opinion, should your family take care of the patient in the hospital?

              Are there enough nurses in the hospital? The nurse is not obligated to look after the patient
          2. A. Privalov
            A. Privalov 14 September 2021 12: 08
            +2
            Quote: ee2100
            It happens, most likely, that there were concomitant diseases.

            In this case, no accompanying. He was as healthy as a bull.
            1. ee2100
              ee2100 14 September 2021 12: 15
              +5
              There are no healthy people - there are under-examined people!
              1. A. Privalov
                A. Privalov 14 September 2021 12: 19
                +4
                Quote: ee2100
                There are no healthy people - there are under-examined people!

                In the best of times, I would also have fun, but nowadays, the language does not turn, excuse me.
                1. ee2100
                  ee2100 14 September 2021 12: 54
                  +2
                  This situation scared you a lot - that's the result of the propaganda! For some reason, they do not write in the headlines how many cardiovascular diseases, cancer, etc. die every day. And this is many times more.
                  In the USSR, with a population of about 250 million during the epidemic of seasonal flu, about 10 million people fell ill with mortality from the same complications as now about 1%. And everything was quiet, no one panicked.
                  There is a WHO instruction on how to diagnose death from Covid. Read, especially the last point.
                  It is beneficial for hospitals to treat covid ones, the state pays more for them.
                  PCR tests in the Russian Federation 1200 rubles, in Europe laughing 70 € (paid by myself).
                  1. not main
                    not main 14 September 2021 22: 34
                    0
                    Quote: ee2100
                    This situation scared you a lot - that's the result of the propaganda! For some reason, they do not write in the headlines how many cardiovascular diseases, cancer, etc. die every day.

                    It is possible that the numbers say so. But have you been sick with covid? And I'm just trying to get out of this "pit" of sores after covid! For my almost 60 years I was sick with flu (including severe) and acute respiratory viral infections and acute respiratory infections, etc.
    2. New Year day
      New Year day 14 September 2021 11: 56
      -1
      Quote: A. Privalov
      By the way, we have recently died a notable anti-vaccination man - one of the ideologists of the Israeli anti-Axis.

      I decided to show you some more significant examples:
      1.On 21.05.2021, 51-year-old lieutenant general of the internal service of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, head of the Department for material, technical and medical support of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia, Vitaly Alekseevich Sidorenko, born on 30.05.1969/24323036/85, died, - reported on the website of the Ministry of Internal Affairs (https: / /mv.drf/news/item/XNUMX/). Information that he died after vaccination is in another message - on the website of the Moscow police trade union., Reports https://stoppanika.ru/problems/XNUMX-general-mvd-vitalii-sidorenko-skonchalsja-posle-vakcinacii.html
      2.25.08.21g. In Rostov-on-Don, 40-year-old police lieutenant colonel Andrei Fedorenko, who was fully vaccinated, died. He was vaccinated at the beginning of the summer. But in August, a police officer was diagnosed with a coronavirus infection and lung damage in 36%.
      3. 10.06.21 Died Larisa Shoigu, deputy of the State Duma of the VII convocation. She was elected according to the party list in group No. 5, which includes Tyva, Khakassia and Krasnoyarsk Territory. Larisa Shoigu was 68 years old. Was fully vaccinated against Covid-19.
      How many ordinary people died in the same situation?
      1. Liam
        Liam 14 September 2021 12: 05
        0
        Quote: Silvestr
        I decided to show you some more significant examples:

        This is a manipulation. The vaccine does not give a 100% guarantee either from illness or death. Especially if a person has concomitant sores. Even Pfizer and Modern -95% after two doses. About Sputnik, we will be modestly silent. So a certain number of vaccinated patients and deaths is inevitable. ...
        What would be an honest analysis, give the% of sick and dead among the unvaccinated and separately among the vaccinated. 90% of the sick and dead are unvaccinated
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 14 September 2021 12: 22
          -4
          Quote: Liam
          This is manipulation.

          Manipulation is when the population is not given real statistics and is forced to get vaccinated. Although, this is not a manipulation, but a crime.
          Quote: Liam
          The vaccine does not give a 100% guarantee either against disease or death, especially if a person has concomitant ailments, even Pfizer and Modern -95% after two doses.

          Agree
          Quote: Liam
          About Sputnik, we will modestly keep silent.

          Why?
          Quote: Liam
          So a certain number of vaccinated patients and deaths is inevitable.

          would you like to bring such a surprise to your relatives? It's easy to dispose of someone else's life, but yours is dumb.
          And what about the RF Law on this issue?
          1.Federal Law of 17.09.1998 No. 157-FZ
          "On immunization of infectious diseases"

          Article 4. State policy in the field of immunization
          -use for the implementation of immunoprophylaxis of effective immunobiological drugs; (As amended by Federal Law No. 25.11.2013-FZ dated 317)
          As you know, vaccination began before the end of clinical trials, in fact, vaccination was the 3rd stage before certification. People are rabbits, it turns out.

          Article 5. Rights and obligations of citizens in the implementation of immunization
          1. Citizens in the implementation of immunization have the right to:
          obtaining from medical workers complete and objective information about the need for preventive vaccinations, the consequences of refusing them, possible post-vaccination complications;
          And how was it implemented? - NO! We stepped in bullshit.

          Federal Law of 21.11.2011 N 323-FZ "On the basics of protecting the health of citizens in the Russian Federation."

          Voluntary medical intervention?
          In general, violated:

          Art. 23, art. 24, art. 41 and Art. 55 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation;

          Art. 5 Federal Law No. 157 "On Immunoprophylaxis of Infectious Diseases";

          Art. 35 Federal Law No. 52 "On the Sanitary and Epidemiological Welfare of the Population";

          Art. 20 Federal Law No. 323 "On the Fundamentals of Health Protection of Citizens in the Russian Federation.
          It suits you?
          What is required for violators of the Laws of the Russian Federation and its Constitution?
          1. Liam
            Liam 14 September 2021 13: 01
            0
            Let's so that we understand each other. I'm not writing about Russian realities, but in general about the need for a vaccine in this case. Without a general vaccination, we will not get out of this epidemic and will not return to normal life soon. Delaying vaccination will only multiply the number of deaths and lengthen the period of restrictions. And the compulsory vaccination is gradually introduced everywhere in the world. In Italy in October it will become such. Despite the fact that the% of vaccinated is about 80. Vaccination has already given its effects. The severely ill and the dead fell not even multiples, but by orders of magnitude. And most of the restrictions for the vaccinated were removed. All that was left was the wearing of a mask in closed rooms.
            As for Russia. The list of "miracles" of the authorities in relation to this epidemic, to statistics, to vaccines and vaccinations is huge and it could not but lead to these results. Russia has the worst indicators in the entire developed world in all respects. But this is a systemic problem, not just associated with this epidemic
            1. New Year day
              New Year day 14 September 2021 13: 41
              0
              Quote: Liam
              The number of seriously ill and dead people fell not even multiples, but by orders of magnitude.

              After the 17th will grow
              Quote: Liam
              And most of the restrictions for vaccinated people have been lifted.

              And how substantiated were they?
              Quote: Liam
              And the compulsory vaccination is being phased in everywhere in the world.

              So what! How has vaccination in Israel affected the incidence? Forer headlights industry!
              1. Liam
                Liam 14 September 2021 13: 58
                +1
                Quote: Silvestr
                After the 17th will grow

                You are again about Russia and the manipulation of statistics. I am aware of this. I do not live in Russia, but in Italy and no one manipulates our statistics. Therefore, I am telling you about a multiple drop in mortality and severe cases as soon as vaccination gained momentum. From 600- 800 people a day before vaccination up to 30-50 now. The same picture is everywhere in Europe and wherever vaccination was taken seriously and used effective vaccines.



                Quote: Silvestr

                And how substantiated were they?

                They stopped the exponential growth of the epidemic in the absence of a vaccine and saved millions of lives.
                Quote: Silvestr
                How is vaccination in Israel

                Do you have infa that the epidemiological situation in Israel is worse than in Russia where vaccination takes place slipshod and looks more like imitation?
          2. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny 14 September 2021 13: 25
            +1
            Quote: Liam
            This is manipulation.

            Sylvester, Liam is right, you are a manipulator. Did you highlight the vaccination questionnaire? Have you seen her turnover? When you see, then argue. At the funeral, I talked with a doctor from a covid hospital. Yes, there are deaths after vaccination. He has ONE case in the interdistrict hospital. Why? Read above, first look at the questionnaire, its turnover, and then manipulate. And yet, I can cite a bunch of interviews with your colleagues, not from Moscow, but from the provinces. Argue with them about the futility of vaccination. Hop on the trash internet and then get smart. Once again, talk to doctors from covid hospitals, and then be smart. Better yet, go to work there, and not spread slogans on the Internet, get busy.
            1. New Year day
              New Year day 14 September 2021 14: 04
              -2
              Quote: Okolotochny
              That's when you see, that's when you argue

              What about voluntariness? laughing and no claims laughing
              Quote: Okolotochny
              Argue with them about the futility of vaccination

              Is it really about that? We are talking about indications of contraindications to vaccination, complications
              Quote: Okolotochny
              Once again, talk to doctors from covid hospitals, and then be smart. Better yet, go to work there.

              I am there! So I have every right to be clever, unlike you laughing
              Wouldn't you climb where you don't understand
              1. Okolotochny
                Okolotochny 14 September 2021 15: 45
                -1
                What about voluntariness? and no claims

                I look in the book and see a fig - this is about you. No, the presence of diseases and contraindications of the vaccinated. The second half of the sheet from the back. Contraindications are indicated there, the presence of which must be notified to doctors.
                I am there!

                Good to lie. Doctors "from there" do not advertise against vaccination. Are you ashamed to lie?
                Enlighten, "from there". This person is from there.
                https://ustlabinfo.ru/news/2021-08-12-vrach-reanimatolog-ust-labinskogo-gospitalya-tyazhelo-teryat-patsientov-smotryashchikh-s-molboy-o-sp/?sphrase_id=6753
                1. New Year day
                  New Year day 14 September 2021 16: 06
                  -1
                  Quote: Okolotochny
                  Good to lie. Doctors "from there" do not advertise against vaccination. Are you ashamed to lie?

                  Have you been there? Do you know? Although what to prove to the near-by? Do you think those who work with Covid are like you? laughing The smart one leaves the dispute first
                  1. not main
                    not main 14 September 2021 22: 56
                    +1
                    Quote: Silvestr
                    Have you been there? Do you know?

                    So tell me what to do? Simple and accessible language (Russian)! And then there are a lot of words, "things are still there"!
            2. New Year day
              New Year day 14 September 2021 14: 20
              -2
              Quote: Okolotochny
              Argue with them about the futility of vaccination.

              In view of the importance for the country of the gene pool of EP fans and the authorities, I am demanding monthly vaccinations for them, as well as for the government and the elite! Your genes are the future of Russia! laughing
              1. Okolotochny
                Okolotochny 14 September 2021 15: 47
                0
                Once again you have merged, your sect of admirers of the deribanist of a state farm near Moscow, in the absence of arguments, is switching to cheap slogans. Once again, as a medic (or are you not a medic?) - talk to your colleagues from covid hospitals. I communicated from three different ones. Good luck and don't get sick.
                1. Overlock
                  Overlock 14 September 2021 18: 45
                  +2
                  Quote: Okolotochny
                  Once again you have merged, your sect of the raiders' admirers

                  By law, you are required to provide your opponent with evidence of his lies. You didn't succeed. Your opponent doesn't have to prove anything to you.
                  Code of Criminal Procedure Article 86. Collection of evidence
                  1. The collection of evidence is carried out in the course of criminal proceedings an inquiry officer, investigator, prosecutor and court through the performance of investigative and other procedural actionsth provided by this Code.

                  PC RF Article 14. Presumption of innocence

                  1. The accused is presumed innocent as long as his guilt is in the commission of a crime will not be proven in the manner prescribed by this Code and established by a court verdict that has entered into legal force.
                  2. A suspect or accused is not required to prove his innocence. The burden of proving the charge and refuting the arguments presented in defense of the suspect or the accused lies with the prosecution.
                  You’re a bad guy if you don’t know the laws. Although you may never have followed them.
        2. ee2100
          ee2100 14 September 2021 12: 43
          +3
          The fact that they went too far with measures to combat Covid was recognized back in May 2020 by WHO. Many people liked this situation. What I want - I allow, but something is illegal! Redistribution of business areas. Governments are sawing billions!
          All normal people understand that this is a very good project for the so-called. elites.
      2. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 14 September 2021 12: 15
        +6
        Quote: Silvestr
        I decided to show you some more significant examples:

        My condolences to family and friends ...
        What is the significance of your examples?
        In your area, a hundred-thousand-meter city is dying out from covid a block away. It's time to think.
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 14 September 2021 12: 29
          -1
          Quote: A. Privalov
          What is the significance of your examples?

          Significance is that they died noticeable people, but ordinary people did not hit the news pages.
          Quote: A. Privalov
          In your area, a hundred-thousand-meter city is dying out from covid a block away. It's time to think.

          Let’s not tell me this! When a person dies from submandibular adenophlegmon with mediasthenitis or acute infarction / appendicitis, and a death certificate is issued with a diagnosis of Covid, then it is not a completely different story.
          1. A. Privalov
            A. Privalov 14 September 2021 12: 38
            +5
            Quote: Silvestr
            Quote: A. Privalov
            What is the significance of your examples?

            Significance is that they died noticeable people, but ordinary people did not hit the news pages.
            Quote: A. Privalov
            In your area, a hundred-thousand-meter city is dying out from covid a block away. It's time to think.

            Let’s not tell me this! When a person dies from submandibular adenophlegmon with mediasthenitis or acute infarction / appendicitis, and a death certificate is issued with a diagnosis of Covid, then it is not a completely different story.

            In other words, the statistics are artificially inflated. Died of a heart attack, but they write covid? Well, you know better.
            In any case, take care of yourself. Bless you, L-rd!
            1. New Year day
              New Year day 14 September 2021 12: 54
              0
              Quote: A. Privalov
              In other words, the statistics are artificially inflated. Died of a heart attack, and they write covid?

              There is a game in both directions, depending on the benchmarks of each region and the importance of the medical institution. Usually those are buried under the covid, with the exception of the real covid, whom the doctors just pissed away
            2. ee2100
              ee2100 14 September 2021 12: 58
              +2
              A friend's had it. The mother has diabetes, pneumonia (bacterial), death. When asked, can we write Covid?
          2. not main
            not main 14 September 2021 23: 02
            0
            Quote: Silvestr
            When a person dies from submandibular adenophlegmon with mediasthenitis or acute infarction / appendicitis, and a death certificate is issued with a diagnosis of Covid, then it is not a completely different story.

            Are you a pathologist? And if you know all these diagnoses, then the question is: WHERE YOU HAVE BEEN?
            1. Narak-zempo
              Narak-zempo 15 September 2021 15: 00
              0
              Quote: non-primary
              Are you a pathologist? And if you know all these diagnoses, then the question is: WHERE YOU HAVE BEEN?

              So it is he who issues such conclusions about death.

              - Write "death by covid".
              - There and then a knife wound!
              - Write down "complicated by stabbing".
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    4. Motorist
      Motorist 14 September 2021 23: 29
      0
      Quote: A. Privalov
      Already in a hospital bed, he continued to conduct activities against vaccination, accused the police of "trying to poison him", and even called what was happening "an attempt to liquidate."

      Or maybe it was? A man on his deathbed will carry a blizzard? You most likely know about [quasi] complications from the covid from the local media - and they certainly won't lie!
  8. Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 15 September 2021 12: 26
    0
    All this, of course, has nothing to do with the modern coronavirus pandemic. It certainly was created by evil scientists in the laboratory, and in general, it's just a cold, and the authorities use it as an excuse to restrict freedom and universal chipping under the guise of vaccination laughinglaughinglaughing
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