The problem of basing the Navy

94
The problem of basing the Navy

It is necessary to start with the exact, namely with numbers - the modern United States has 33 naval bases. These are naval bases, the US has 800 bases in total. Before the United States, Great Britain ruled the seas, it had few foreign bases, the territory around its bases was captured and turned into colonies. But there were many colonies, about a third of the planet, and wherever possible there were naval bases, the very Royal Navy. Now China has taken the path of creating an ocean-going navy - 15 foreign bases.

Here the question arises - why are these very bases needed? We will set up nuclear ships, maybe more missiles, but how ... Opinion is not new, having begun the development of the Far East, the Russian and Imperial fleets suffered a terrible defeat from a state that was second-class in essence. No, coal was found, in peacetime without problems, in wartime - with problems, but found. But repairs, crew rest, and just safe places where you can fix, rest, and just feel safe - no.



The result is an odyssey of the Second Pacific, which, if not for the kindness of the French in the form of Nossibeisk and Cam Ranh with Wang Fong, is not a fact that it has reached. It came, however, to defeat, but without the support of the French and German coal miners, the campaign itself was impossible, and the development of Manchuria as a whole. Yes, and Alaska, which the turbopatriots love to remember so much - in many respects it was sold precisely because of its inaccessibility, it is still not cheap to drive ships around the world by distance, and if, in addition, there are no ports of its own along the way ... The development of the Far East was slowed down by the same - from Odessa to Vladivostok there are no ports for the Russian ship.

All this has been going on since the days of Ochakov and the conquest of Crimea: no bases - no sea trade, no trade - no ocean fleet, The Navy is degenerating into a narrow instrument against specific neighbors, and the level of politics is becoming a regional one. And in the era of the nuclear missile, nothing has changed: if you want to control trade routes and defend your homeland on distant frontiers, send squadrons. Where to send? Into emptiness? Where are the ships to replenish supplies, and the sailors to rest?

The problem, of course, was solved, solved with varying success, starting from Peter the Great, who created the fleet and was seriously ill with the sea, realizing that national wealth is in trade, and trade is all history humanity is mostly marine. And as soon as the problems with the Swedes were resolved and a more or less suitable fleet was built, in 1723 preparations began for an expedition to Madagascar and Bengal. The idea was beautiful: to take under the patronage of the Madagascar pirates, creating an intermediate base for trade with India. It didn't work out, the ships were equipped out of hand, and they could not even leave the Baltic:

“The all-merciful emperor, when the used frigates in Reval were made before the officers they found on them, could not believe that the sea man sent them; from the dispatch of provisions he could see that the way was not for a month or two, and the hold on both frigates was filled with cave ballast ... All the light supplies were laid back, and the heavy ones in front, so that the frigate Amsterdam-Galey in front was 8 inches heavier than the present sign ... Most of the sailors were worn out ... now, although in my time, a monetary salary for 8 months has been issued, but ... there is nothing to buy on ships, and I fear lest they take the need for scarcity of clothing, from which flies may die, and I just mention this so that it would not be reckoned against me and the officers would not be accused of being guilty, if for such a defect some occasion will be called upon and the frigates will not happen. "

The next attempt had to wait for a long time - in the era of palace coups, Russia had no time for the world's oceans. The second serious attempt to create an intermediate base for the fleet and a colony is associated with the famous RAC (Russian-American company) and Hawaii. It was there that three forts and plantations of the RAC were created, and the king was offered a plan for the occupation of the islands. There were chances, and the chances were not bad, but Petersburg was not interested in the idea. The Americans privately destroyed both the fortifications and plantations, expelling the Russians from the islands. It did not take off in 1820, when the expedition of Thaddeus Bellingshausen and Mikhail Lazarev discovered a number of Polynesian islands, but having neither the strength nor the instructions, they did not even think to gain a foothold.

The last attempt in the 19th century was Miklouho-Maclay's attempt in New Guinea, but the Naval Department considered the area remote, and the coast was unpromising for a cruising war. We can only guess how the presence of a base in Hawaii and coal stations in Polynesia would affect the fate of Russia, I don’t think it’s negative. But it turned out that it happened, even the Mediterranean Ships, where our ships were defended and repaired, was not a naval base, and the agreement on permission to use the French Bizerte brought the only result - the Black Sea Fleet, hijacked by the White Guards, rotted there.

And then timelessness came again, after the Civil Fleet - both merchant and military - there was little left, but what was being built was in the style of a new-fashioned school and was not suitable for trips to the ocean. And the bases ... The hopes for the World Revolution and the Comintern seemed more reliable. Illusions collapsed in the Spanish War, when the Francoists, possessing as many as two Washington cruisers, did whatever they wanted with the Soviet merchant fleet, but there was no one to send to guard. It was then, by 1941, that the understanding of the importance and necessity of foreign bases was again formulated, but the understanding was theoretical - then there was a war.

But according to its results ... Joseph Vissarionovich, with all the negativity, learned hard from his mistakes, and the first two bases appear under him - Porkalla and Port Arthur. And ships are beginning to be built en masse, and the emergence of pro-Soviet regimes and the beginning of decolonization inspired hopes for the future. For more, at that moment there were simply no ships, and there were no resources either, the European part of Russia lay in ruins.

The question arose sharply under Khrushchev, on the one hand, he handed over the Stalinist bases, and not with the smartest argumentation:

“I thought that not the best way to gain the trust of the Finnish people was to keep a knife in the form of a military base under their throats ... How can we call on the Americans to withdraw their troops from other territories if our base is located in Finland? It performs the same role as the American bases, for example, in Turkey. "

On the other hand, Khrushchev is Vlora in Albania, the base of the submarine project 613 in the Mediterranean, this is Guinea, Conakry, this is an attempt to penetrate Indonesia (Surabaya) and this is the beginning of work in the Horn of Africa (Somalia, Berbera). True, all the ventures ended badly in the end, but the start was made to create a network of naval bases abroad, and the fleet began to turn into an ocean one.

Under Brezhnev, the trend continued, but it did not take root seriously for a long time. Cam Ranh became a pleasant exception, and this is not only the piers and warehouses, this is the 169th Guards Mixed Aviation Regiment (40 aircraft, including Tu-16 and Tu-95 RC), this is a Marine Corps landing group, this is a hospital and much more. The base made it possible to tightly take control of this area of ​​the World Ocean, and the United States burned a lot of nerves and money to counter it.

And then there was a pogrom, practically everything was abandoned in the period 1991-2001, both the Cam Ranh and the PMTO, except for the Syrian Tartus, the ships were cut into metal ... Now it seems like thoughts are wandering about something like that, since the ships are being built, but. ..

It did not work to return Cam Ranh, everything that the Vietnamese allowed - PMTO and refueling of our air tankers. The attempt with Sudan was good, but ... Again it did not work out, the opposition to the presence of the Russian Navy in the oceans is strongest. Tartus is ours, of course, but this is only the Mediterranean. As for the rest, there is no Russian naval base either in Venezuela or Cuba, there is no our presence in the Horn region and in the Indian Ocean. To some extent, we have returned to the times of the Russian Empire, when, with a large number of ships, there are simply no basing sites, apart from, of course, those bases that are on our territory.

And without this, the further development of the Navy is simply impossible, however, as well as the development of the merchant fleet and the expansion of Russia's influence in the world as a whole. And just a good attitude is not an assistant here - the USSR followed this path, as a result, our presence in the ocean depended on the personality of the ruler of the Third World state. Now in the same Venezuela, the regime is friendly, but tomorrow? Somalia also allowed, and then changed its mind about the base in Berbera, where, by the way, we built a deep-water port, and left. And not only from Somalia. But the United States did not leave Guantanamo, and do not think. And maybe it's time to take an example not only from friends, but also from enemies?
94 comments
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  1. +16
    16 September 2021 18: 08
    Maybe - at the same time, remember who ordered to leave Cam Ranh and Lourdes? And this is by no means Yeltsin ...
    1. -1
      16 September 2021 18: 23
      Quote: paul3390
      Maybe - at the same time we will remember

      that then there was a question about the existence of the country, and not some kind of bases, which there was nothing to support.
      1. +8
        16 September 2021 18: 27
        then the question was about the existence of the country, and not some kind of bases

        In 2001 ?? belay Actually, it was motivated by the fact that like what the hell Russia does not need foreign bases .. And not a lack of money .. what
        1. +6
          16 September 2021 20: 27
          Quote: paul3390
          In 2001 ??

          2000-2001. There was no money or resources for something there.
          1. +6
            16 September 2021 23: 09
            Quote: Dart2027
            2000-2001. There was no money or resources for something there.

            It seems that on each branch there are one or two turboputriots on duty, namely on duty, who are trying to explain to all of us how well we live, about netanalagavetics, about the great and omnipotent outperforming everyone.
            This is how you read and think, if this is not done for money, then what can you call such a state? what
            1. +1
              17 September 2021 07: 13
              Quote: Stroporez
              It seems that on each branch there are one or two turboputriots on duty, namely those on duty who
              they constantly whine and emanate anger at any positive news.
              This is how you read and think, if this is not done for money, then what can you call such a state?
              1. +5
                17 September 2021 08: 42
                Quote: Dart2027
                they constantly whine and emanate anger at any positive news.

                And if you suck this positivity out of your finger, and then rush about with it, as with a written sack.
                It's funny! laughing
                1. -4
                  17 September 2021 10: 12
                  Quote: Stroporez
                  this positivity
                  for you like a knife in your heart. We know, we know.
                  1. +3
                    17 September 2021 10: 17
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    for you like a knife in your heart. We know, we know.

                    No, no, no, pure neighing, postebatsya for fun. This skakua delirium cannot be taken seriously. laughing
                    1. -3
                      17 September 2021 10: 21
                      Quote: Stroporez
                      No, no, no, pure neighing, postebatsya for fun.

                      When there is nothing to object to the facts, it only remains.
                      1. +4
                        17 September 2021 10: 25
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        When there is nothing to object to the facts, it only remains.

                        Yesterday Musk objected to your cave-dense facts, and you continue to ride in a turboputriotic frenzy around trampolines, a coastal fleet, a variety of srakets, and most importantly, prove to the kaklapitecs that they did not dig the Black Sea, but you. laughing laughing laughing drinks
                      2. -2
                        17 September 2021 13: 30
                        Quote: Stroporez
                        Musk objected to your cave facts yesterday

                        What is it?
                        Quote: Stroporez
                        and you keep jumping

                        Well, horse racing is for those who like to arrange revolutions.
            2. 0
              17 September 2021 19: 59
              So they tell you the truth.
              Do you remember what happened in 2000?
              The country had no time for Lourdes and other things at all.
              And three hundred dollars a year, which cost to maintain the base and the people there - it was then for the Russian Federation there were colossal grandmothers.
              It's a pity they left. of course, but I fully understand Putin's decision.
              1. +1
                17 September 2021 21: 19
                I still remember a little. For Voronezh, $ 300 a month was a very good salary.
                1. +3
                  17 September 2021 21: 49
                  That's right, I remember how I worked in the mentor, it was for happiness to buy kefir.
                  I drove off on a business trip - that was happiness - the loot was gone.
            3. 0
              8 November 2021 14: 57
              And I have a feeling that there are too many corrupt rats and fools ..
              1. 0
                6 December 2021 19: 10
                They are not fools. These are people who are ready to sell their homeland for another bright future, for Musk's candy.
          2. 0
            15 December 2021 15: 50
            Forgot to mention the main thing: money. very good big money for 2001, both for Vieta and for Russians.
            Namely: $ 100 million of greens demanded a Vieta for Cam Ranh in 1 year, but ..., not so BUT! Vietnam owed Russia $ 30 billion. One %% for these 30 yards was more than $ 100 million.

            What did PU do? On the other hand - to please the western owners - he closed the Cam Ranh, because it is kind of expensive, and ... he forgave the debt of the Vieta for 30 yards - what if they say thank you?
            C - fucking strategy (CR)!
            1. 0
              15 December 2021 19: 18
              Quote: Nross
              and ... forgiven the debt of the Vieta for 30 yards - what if they say thank you?

              How would he get it? Well, he would not forgive, so what? Vietnam would still refuse to renew it, that's all.
        2. +3
          16 September 2021 22: 33
          To Russia, the new Western world showed indifference and a dull skepticism. Our faith has gone because they pointed out to all our efforts about our underdevelopment, when their world caved in under the weight of sins. The new Western world is based on vices based on aversion to traditional values ​​and a welcome to sin, which is unacceptable to us.
        3. +5
          17 September 2021 03: 49
          Our new leader decided to make friends with the Americans. And I did not immediately understand that they did not want to be friends with him, only to use.
      2. +5
        16 September 2021 18: 55
        Quote: Dart2027
        that then there was a question about the existence of the country, and not some kind of bases, which there was nothing to support.

        Darting (throwing a dart at a target means darting) is not tired of it? The question of the country's existence has never been raised. There was the question of preserving the USSR, which the EBN so successfully ignored. The crisis was not as difficult as the liberals paint it ... They forget to say that it was their handiwork - to plunge the country into the chaos of anarchy, when it was possible to snatch the fattest pieces with impunity ...
        1. +6
          16 September 2021 20: 28
          Quote: ROSS 42
          The crisis was not as difficult as the liberals describe it ...

          They just do not paint it.
          Quote: ROSS 42
          Darting (throwing a dart at a target means darting) is not tired of it?

          Are you to yourself?
        2. -1
          6 December 2021 19: 13
          Exactly what was put! It is worth reading the Constitution of Tatarstan now to understand that the country (Russia) was teetering on the brink of collapse
      3. 0
        26 September 2021 14: 43
        "To lead is to foresee" JV STALIN
        And the ports on the Northern Sea Route ...
        You have to rebuild almost from scratch
        1. 0
          26 September 2021 14: 59
          Quote: RoTTor
          To lead is to foresee

          This is true, but it is also true "stretch your legs over your clothes."
    2. +4
      16 September 2021 18: 50
      A novel, without exaggeration. RELEVANT.
      I repeat, Russia's ocean-going fleet was needed yesterday.
      Without Sevastopol, there would be no Black Sea Fleet, and the revival of the Mediterranean squadron would have to be forgotten.
      Today, alas, there are no FLEETERS in Russia.
      In the days of the USSR, which was essentially a peace-loving country, there was also the 8th "Indian" operational squadron of naval ships to solve problems in the Indian Ocean and the Persian Gulf.
      There was also a base in NDRYUI, Socotra Island.
      1. +4
        17 September 2021 08: 59
        Quote: knn54
        There was also a base in NDRYUI, Socotra Island.

        Yes, there was NEVER a base on Socotra !!! There was a PMTO in Nork !!!
        1. +2
          17 September 2021 09: 10
          Apparently Nokru changed T9 into Norku? smile
          1. 0
            17 September 2021 09: 21
            Words are not enough for this T fucking 9 am
            I'm sorry hi
      2. +2
        18 September 2021 08: 48
        Quote: knn54
        In the days of the USSR, which was essentially a peace-loving country, there was also the 8th "Indian" operational squadron of naval ships to solve problems in the Indian Ocean and the Persian Gulf.

        Well, what tasks did the 8th squadron solve? Only, please name the real, not fictional, mythical, invented to justify the very fact of its existence.
        1. 0
          8 November 2021 15: 04
          Ensured the safety of your life and the life of your family, in vain, as you can see, not in the horse feed.
          1. 0
            8 November 2021 20: 56
            Smart guy, I worked three combat in this squadron in the 80s.
    3. 0
      8 November 2021 14: 55
      Remember, you have nothing more to remember.
    4. 0
      21 November 2021 09: 30
      Maybe - at the same time, remember who ordered to leave Cam Ranh and Lourdes? And this is by no means Yeltsin ...


      This is Vova Kurolesov ...
  2. Cat
    +18
    16 September 2021 18: 22
    no bases - no sea trade, no trade - no ocean-going fleet, the navy degenerates into a narrow instrument

    It seems to me that the respected author turns everything upside down a little. It is the dependence on sea or ocean trade that makes it necessary to create a strong fleet, and the fleet, in turn, cannot exist normally without a network of bases.
    For Russia, maritime trade is not critical, it needs the ocean fleet to a greater extent for (say, to put it mildly) pressure on potential adversaries, who will quickly fall into insignificance without maritime communications.
    The idea of ​​meeting an aggressor on distant sea approaches is generally sly, since coastal forces, all other things being equal, always have superiority over naval groupings.
    1. +3
      16 September 2021 20: 37
      First, you need to understand which path our country intends to take into the future. If it continues along the path of unbearable capitalism, then, given the prepared role of a raw materials semi-colony, it really does not need either a combat oceanic or merchant fleets.
      Quote: Gato
      For Russia, maritime trade is not critical, it needs the ocean fleet to a greater extent for (put it mildly) pressure on potential adversaries ...

      Therefore, I completely agree.
      But ... if at some point common sense prevails, and the country embarks on the path of popular socialism, then a strong state simply needs a large merchant fleet and a strong naval fleet, which will defend national interests, including protecting the commercial ...
      1. +2
        16 September 2021 22: 56
        and the country will embark on the path of popular socialism
        - the president's friends will not understand ... hi
      2. +2
        17 September 2021 07: 58
        Quote: Doccor18
        the country will take the path of popular socialism,

        Tell us what is "popular socialism"? I am for many years, I lived under Khrushchev, Brezhnev, and further - there was no such term in newspapers and radio.
        1. +2
          17 September 2021 09: 47
          Not every phrase in a comment is a term. A little higher, I wrote about "unbearable capitalism" ...
          The socialist idea has been greatly discredited in recent decades. There are a lot of socialist parties in many states, which in fact are not. The failures of the socialists in Greece, the strange socialism in China, etc. etc. The true folk essence of socialism is perverted to please modern realities and momentary buns. That is why I considered it necessary to use the phrase "PEOPLE'S SOCIALISM". But you should not look for a scientific basis under it and demand justifications.
          1. +1
            17 September 2021 10: 57
            Quote: Doccor18
            But you should not look for a scientific basis under it and demand justifications.

            That is, what is it you do not know? Or is it something when everyone is always good?
            1. +1
              17 September 2021 13: 48
              Did you read my comment carefully? One gets the impression that no.
              Or do you want to hear what I mean by the phrase "popular socialism"? This is socialism, in which the people directly participate in the government of the state, and not the irreplaceable caste of party nomenklatura. And if there is no inflow of fresh people's blood, then any closed caste will irreversibly degenerate. What we saw ...
      3. +2
        17 September 2021 09: 17
        Quote: Doccor18
        with the prepared role of a raw material semi-colony

        How is the word "semi-colony" acceptable to Russia now? And what does "half-colony" mean?
        Quote: Doccor18
        a strong state also needs a large merchant fleet

        Those. only under popular socialism can a country become a strong power?
        Quote: Doccor18
        a strong state also needs a large merchant fleet

        what Strange, but all the time I thought that the merchant fleet was needed when trade with overseas countries increased! The main US sea trade traffic goes to Europe and Asia, do we need a large merchant fleet to trade with Europe and Asia?
        1. +4
          17 September 2021 14: 25
          Quote: Serg65
          And what does "half-colony" mean?

          This is when behind the beautiful facade of the capital and powerful Strategic Missile Forces hides an economy that is completely dependent on imports ... from textiles to electronics, from pharmaceuticals to seeds ...

          Quote: Serg65
          Those. only under popular socialism can a country become a strong power?

          Certainly.
          Capitalism devours itself over time ...

          Quote: Serg65
          Strange, but all the time I thought that the merchant fleet was needed when trade with overseas countries increased!

          To significantly increase trade, you need to have a strong economy and a competitive industry, and to have them, you need to invest more in science and education, and ... in the development of trade, (after all, the richer who trades more ...) A vicious circle. And in order to seriously trade not only with neighbors, but also with all countries of the world, you need a large and modern merchant fleet ...
          The USSR had the 8th merchant fleet in the world in terms of tonnage, almost one and a half thousand ships. The Russian Federation now has one and a half times fewer ships and half the tonnage (19th place in the world), but only 40% of it sail under the Russian flag ...
          1. -1
            17 September 2021 14: 56
            Quote: Doccor18
            This is when behind the beautiful facade of the capital and powerful Strategic Missile Forces hides an economy that is completely dependent on imports ... from textiles to electronics, from pharmaceuticals to seeds ...

            Interesting wording ... i.e. USA and Great Britain, if based on this formulation, the same semi-colony ....?
            Quote: Doccor18
            Capitalism devours itself over time ...

            Maybe, although he lives in different ways for more than 74 years.
            Quote: Doccor18
            To significantly increase trade, you need to have a strong economy and a competitive industry.

            And to have them, you had to think with your head 30 years ago! After they themselves have put their own country in a pose, now we are looking for an extreme forgetting about the past!
            Quote: Doccor18
            to seriously trade not only with neighbors, but also with all countries of the world, a large and modern merchant fleet is needed ...

            Let's build a large and modern fleet ... and trade ... well, for example ... with Madagascar! My friend, while we were carrying our money to Mavrodi like madmen, putting cans of water in front of the TV and listening to the words of Aum shinrikyo with our ears, the world did not stand still. I foresee yours ... in 20 years we have completely degraded ... on the contrary, we are carrying out industrialization-2 without dispossession, arrests and labor armies ... I agree that slowly but surely!
            Quote: Doccor18
            The USSR had the 8th largest merchant fleet in the world in terms of tonnage, almost one and a half thousand ships

            Well, first of all, to compare the ENTIRE USSR with the only one former RSFSR, agree not correctly! Secondly, the flourishing of the Soviet merchant fleet is associated with the huge purchases of wheat in the USA, Canada, Argentina and sugarcane in Cuba ... these are return flights ... but what to take there? By the mid-80s, almost half of the ships were either idle or used on unprofitable coastal flights, the other half often went under charter!
            Quote: Doccor18
            only 40% of them fly the Russian flag ...

            what Wow, I thought less!
          2. 0
            18 September 2021 09: 04
            Quote: Doccor18
            The USSR had the 8th merchant fleet in the world in terms of tonnage, almost one and a half thousand ships. The Russian Federation now has one and a half times fewer ships and half the tonnage (19th place in the world), but only 40% of it sail under the Russian flag ...

            So, we have only 700 vessels of varying degrees of deterioration. 60% of them work for foreign uncles. Remains in the bottom line 420 ships. And what, is it worth building up bases in the World Ocean for their sake and paying millions and billions of dollars for their maintenance? To overtake there a bunch of ships and submarines, aviation, marines, air defense. Moreover, to organize expensive combat training there. Are you out of your mind?
            1. -1
              18 September 2021 09: 43
              First, you need to understand which path our country intends to take into the future.

              From this and need to make a start.
              Are you out of your mind?

              In his.
              Remains in the bottom line 420 ships. And what, it's worth building bases for them

              For their sake, no. The meaning of "playing hegemon", if one is not at all ...
        2. -1
          6 December 2021 19: 15
          Russia is in fact a constitutional colony.
          1. +1
            7 December 2021 07: 41
            Quote: WertGan
            Russia is in fact a constitutional colony.

            belay constitutional colony .... decipher your thought, young man!
            1. -1
              7 December 2021 20: 51
              I decipher: this is a country whose colonial status is enshrined in its Constitution
              1. 0
                8 December 2021 06: 20
                And what the colony then revolts .... and as soon as the colonialists look at it?
                1. -1
                  8 December 2021 21: 19
                  Riots ... In any work collective there are buzoviks and nothing - they work. Russia pays - this is the main thing. And then, not so rebellious. In the referendum of 20, the main colonial articles were not canceled ... They could not. There are still less than 300 foreign agents on the list, although the law on NPOs was adopted back in 2012. For 10 years they could not figure it out with Navalny. We fulfill all the conditions for the restriction at the Olympiads. We comply with WHO requirements. The retirement age was raised. The central bank is still doing what the Fed tells it to. Not so rebellious ... So your sarcasm or disbelief is inappropriate. Let's try to remember what requirements of international bodies we have not fulfilled? There are options ?
                  1. +1
                    9 December 2021 07: 56
                    Quote: WertGan
                    There are options ?

                    I have them!
                    1. Denial of the requirements of the Venice Commission to amend the amendments to the 79th article of the Constitution of the Russian Federation.
                    2. Russia has not paid compensation to the deported Georgians awarded by the ECHR!
                    3. Russia has rejected all accusations and demands on Crimea put forward by the international community.
                    4. Russia has refused the US demands to sever relations with China in exchange for the US refusal to impose sanctions on the SP-2.
                    Quote: WertGan
                    The retirement age was raised

                    Who will raise the retirement age in Russia?
                    Quote: WertGan
                    The central bank still does what the Fed tells

                    Fed? And what is the Fed ordering the Central Bank?
                    1. 0
                      9 December 2021 13: 19
                      Yes. There is a struggle ... He orders to raise the rate. Reduce the money supply.
                      1. 0
                        10 December 2021 08: 25
                        recourse Oh, the struggle with windmills has been hard today ...!
                        hi Good luck in your difficult struggle!
                      2. 0
                        11 December 2021 10: 32
                        With mills, this is when dozens of people of different specialties are involved in heated discussions on the problems of basing the fleet ... And we talked about real things that concern everyone: us, our children and grandchildren. You know, as an example: teenagers drool over glamorous beauties on the Internet, while there are completely real women around. Also here and here ... People come from work, and here is a new article ... The fleet has nowhere to base on a planetary scale. There is something to think about!
                      3. 0
                        13 December 2021 06: 26
                        Quote: WertGan
                        There is something to think about!

                        Ponder over a biased article or figure out the real state of naval and near-naval affairs yourself?
                        Here who likes something!
                      4. 0
                        26 December 2021 09: 35
                        Of course, figure it out yourself) And think about the fact that without souvenirs of the economy and currency, we cannot build an intelligent fleet
      4. +2
        17 September 2021 21: 23
        And naturally, the main currency of the world is the ruble, without which it is impossible to keep the world's oceans.
        11 AUG are required to complement this splendor.
    2. +6
      17 September 2021 05: 49
      Quote: Gato
      Sea trade is not critical for Russia

      I'm afraid to disappoint you, but it is the sea trade that is more and more critical and significant for our economy and (ATTENTION!) For "our" business.
      Consider some of the positions of our foreign trade:
      * Trade in resources:
      1) Trading in crude oil.
      ... The Russian Federation occupies one of the top 3 places in the oil trade. And it supplies it not only to Europe. And not only through pipelines. And by tankers, often collecting them in caravans. The Russian Federation has refineries abroad, where it refines its oil and sells oil products in foreign markets. Russian business owns entire networks of gas stations in various countries of the world. And these factories process not only Russian oil, but also oil received as payment for our goods, weapons and as payment for loans ... from other states of the planet Earth (Venezuela, Iran, Iraq, sometimes Libya ... .).
      ... In the Arctic in recent years, huge reserves of hydrocarbons have been explored and are beginning to be developed - oil reserves exceed the resources of the Persian Gulf (while oil is of the extra-light class, of the highest quality), gas and condensate reserves there exceed those of Qatar and Iran ... But this is the shelf. With high prices for oil and gas, all this will be produced and exported by sea.
      2) Trade in liquefied gas.
      ... Currently, a whole series of projects for the construction of gas-liquefying plants is being implemented in the Russian Federation: in the Arctic, in the Baltic (Ust-Luga), Novorosiysk, Sakhalin ... incl. ice class. For their construction, huge superyards are being built (in Bolshoy Kamen and the Kola shipyard), and a huge icebreaker fleet is being built to navigate them in the ice of the Arctic.
      Our LNG consumers are Europe, China, India, Southeast Asia, Japan, negotiations are underway on long-term contracts with the states of Latin America (Brazil).
      3) Trade in COAL.
      This is a relatively new item of our export, but VERY promising. The gigantic reserves of coking coal in Yakutia have attracted the attention of China and India. China wants to receive 35 million tons of this product every year, India - 45 million tons. And only these two applications exceed the current production of the Russian Federation by 1,5 times. And there are also those who wish. To do this, it is necessary to build new railways, coal ports in harsh regions, develop huge open pits, to provide only these open pits. energy ordered four floating nuclear power plants.
      This is a huge investment and a HUGE volume of trade.
      And to carry them from ports, too, by ocean dry cargo ships.
      4) Trade in grain.
      ... In recent years, the Russian Federation has confidently taken the 1st place in the world grain trade and will only strengthen its position. And this is also trade by sea. In a lot of countries, mainly southern ones.

      These are the most important positions in our maritime trade.
      The so-called Russian business.
      These are huge volumes of freight and simply fantastic amounts.
      Hundreds of super-class vessels (supertankers, super-gas carriers, dry cargo carriers) have already been ordered and are waiting in line to be ordered to ensure these cargo transportation at domestic shipyards (which are still under construction) and at foreign ones. The number goes into the hundreds.

      AND IT ALL SHOULD BE PROTECTED.
      For these businesses are very serious and influential people.
      The state will, of course, defend.
      Specifically - the Russian Navy.
      But for this the State must have WHAT to protect it.
      Moreover, it is necessary to protect domestic shipping in ALL AREAS of our merchant shipping.
      That is, the Fleet, by definition, must be, must be Oceanic, must be present and have combat stability in any region of the World Ocean where such trade is conducted with us.
      So by the very course of things, the Russian State will have to build and have such a fleet. Moreover, to ensure its combat stability in DM and OZ, aircraft carriers will have to be built. request
      Yes Yes . Yes The very ones that have already set the whole audience on edge on edge ... But you have to build.
      For the Merchant Fleet has already been ordered and is being built.
      In the Arctic and not only there is just titanic construction and the deployment of capacities and infrastructure ... Often without much publicity - money loves silence.
      More and more gas-liquefying plants are being built, and this is done not only by NOVATEK, but also by Gazprom and Rosneft ...
      The investments in these projects are simply colossal. And not only state ones.

      You ask: "How much money to build this Ocean Fleet?" ...
      I will answer.
      Only one excess profit received this (!) Year by Gazprom can cover all the costs of building this Fleet.
      Not profit, but additional / above-planned profit of Gazprom received ONLY this year.
      And COAL has risen in price this year.
      THREE TIMES !
      In addition, if we take the annual budget income from the grain (!) Trade and spend it on the construction of the Fleet, then the mighty Ocean Fleet, with 6 (six) aircraft carrier groups (medium VI aircraft carriers, non-nuclear, but with catapults and AWACS aircraft) and escorts to them, frigates, destroyers (22350M) and cruisers ... can be built in 15 - 17 years ONLY at the expense of the profit from the grain trade. I am not exaggerating.
      In order to build 6 AV medium VI, air wings and an escort to them, as well as the basic infrastructure in full, you need to spend an amount equal to 10% of the total gold and foreign exchange reserves of the Russian Federation. 10% (!) Of the gold reserves within 15 - 17 years.

      So do not worry - there is money for the construction of the Fleet. They have always been.
      The Fleet was simply not needed before.
      The masters of life did not need the Fleet.
      And now - needed.
      Well, you can’t be a decent business, but with such a scale, without protection.
      The government has no money in retirement. But for the construction of the nuclear icebreakers "Leader" (3 pieces) and two UDC, money was found immediately and in full.
      And since there will be a Fleet, there will be bases for it - negotiations about them were already taking place several years ago. It's just too early for us to have bases until the Fleet is seen.
      1. +2
        18 September 2021 09: 13
        Quote: bayard
        AND THIS ALL SHOULD BE PROTECTED

        Let me ask you - from whom? From Somali pirates? So PMCs do an excellent job with this. From whom to protect the transportation of grain, coal and oil with gas? From consumers or what? Shipping is a matter of politics, not war. With the war, all our shipping will end.
        1. +1
          18 September 2021 16: 01
          Quote: Silhouette
          Let me ask you - from whom? From Somali pirates?

          smile What kind of pirates are you? PMCs will really cope with them, well, and patrol / patrol ships in places of their swarming.
          Quote: Silhouette
          From whom to protect the transportation of grain, coal and oil with gas?

          Look at the countries that live by sea trade (and we are already such a country and continue to aggravate this phenomenon to a global scale) ... USA, England, France, Holland (yes), China, Japan, Korea (its southern part) etc.
          A significant part of these countries (European in the first place) are united by economic unions and military blocs, therefore, the safety of their navigation is carried out collectively.
          But China is not a member of alliances and therefore relies solely on its own forces.
          And builds a fleet.
          And Japan - lives by sea trade and has a powerful fleet.
          South Korea (!) - lives by trade and has a very modern military fleet, and continues to develop and improve it.
          England, France - everything is the same, but they are also in the NATO bloc.
          Now a powerful fleet is starting to build ... Australia.

          And the Russian Federation every year more and more depends on sea trade.
          Well, you can't pump everything and everywhere with a pipe.
          And what happens when the state is unable to secure the safety of its shipping?
          ... Do you remember how the repaired helicopters and other equipment for Syria and England were transported by an ordinary ship with their own fleet, this ship was stopped and almost arrested ?!
          In neutral waters !!!
          And how then did they have to go out?
          Especially since the beginning of our operation in Syria and the start of the Syrian Express?
          Carrying loads on military BDK !!!
          Or collect ships in caravans and lead them under guard!
          Or have you forgotten that the Russian Federation is under the sanctions of the leading military and naval powers?
          What if they impose sanctions on Russian gas trading?
          Russian oil?
          Grain?
          Armament?
          Shall we sue them? lol
          For such a level of trade, it is not the Sami pirates that are terrible, but a completely different kind of pirates.
          And they perceive ONLY FORCE.

          With such a level of trade, with such a volume and scale, not having the means to guarantee freedom of navigation ... this is a sign of mental and intellectual disability.
          In addition, the newly discovered giant fields on the Arctic Shelf also need to be protected. And the entire infrastructure for their production and transportation.
          Or would you suggest ... the buyers themselves take it under protection and carry it by themselves?
          So they will appropriate the deposits, territories and water areas themselves.
          By the power of his own fleet.
          The Russian Federation is not surrounded by friends and altruists.
          And its territory is by no means a lifeless and barren desert.
          We live in a country rich in resources with an area of ​​1/7 of the land mass of this planet.
          Look at our Far East. With the launch of the NSR at full capacity, when caravans of tankers, gas carriers, dry coal carriers, container ships with goods from China, Japan and Korea to Europe and vice versa will go along it in lines ... WHAT are we going to guard this highway?
          How will we defend our lands in the Far East - the Kuril Islands, Kamchatka, Chukotka, Sakhalin?
          There we have all communications only by sea ... Nui by air.
          And it would be fine if these lands lay empty and there would be no plans for them.
          But there are plans.
          The plans are grandiose, because there are untouched treasures of untold riches, for the development of which it is necessary to build infrastructure, cities and towns, processing facilities, enterprises of deep processing (as is the case with copper deposits).
          Or do you think that the State and Business by investing in these projects simply colossal funds should not care about their ... safety?
          Are they doing this for "uncle"?
          Or do they expect to make a profit?

          And one more question .
          The enemies of the Russian Federation, who have their own interest and plans for these riches, how will they behave?
          What to do?
          What should I say ?
          What to offer?
          - "Leave it all at the mercy (development for a small remuneration) to international - trans-national companies." Yes
          - "Siberia is too big for Russia alone - it is an international treasure and should belong to the international community." Yes
          - "The Northern Sea Route cannot belong to Russia alone, the United States and NATO must ensure freedom of navigation in these waters." Yes
          - "The Northern Territories are the legal possessions of the Japanese Empire, illegally taken away by communist Russia." Yes
          - "Why does Russia need the Fleet? It is a land power! Leave the provision of freedom of navigation to more correct partners and PAY." Yes
          - "Russia does not need to build large ships of the ocean zone, it is necessary to build littoral ships and boats and stay in complacent prostration." Yes
          - "Innovative ships of projects 22160 and 20386 are the future of the Russian fleet. Hurray, comrades and gentlemen !!!" ... Yes
          - "It is necessary to install the propulsion system in the hull of the frigate" Admiral Golovko "not on the slipway, but afloat, after having lowered the unfinished ship into the water. and then not know how to adjust its constituent parts, so that it does not blow itself apart at the first start. " Yes
          - "To flood the floating dock during the planned launch of the aircraft carrier" Admiral Kuznetsov ", causing serious damage to the ship's hull and almost drowning it along with the dock. or to buy a floating dock, do not rush. " Yes
          stop If we have such interested and purposeful ill-wishers, can they restrain themselves from actively opposing the plans of our state?
          From bribery of officials, businessmen, responsible specialists, press, media, bloggers and other activists scribbling posts on profile and not so sites?
          Moreover, is such restraint in nature?
          Or is it just the instrument of their expansion, mastery of markets, spaces, territories, states and their resources?

          That is why I testify that by the very course of things, Russia is doomed to build an ocean-going fleet, for it is already building the Ocean Merchant Fleet. As it is doomed to the fierce opposition of our unscrupulous competitors and ill-wishers. On their intrigues, provocations, sabotage, sanctions, sabotage by their agents of performing tasks of national importance.
          And we all see it.
          On this site too.
          bully
          1. +1
            18 September 2021 18: 48
            And if we assume for a conditional million dollars to build an ore-carrying vessel and, after its launch, make one voyage from Australia to Germany with a cargo of titanium-magnetite ore, then this conditional million dollars will be recouped by the vessel in almost one voyage and will then be able to work only for profit, part of which can be spent already on the construction of a military fleet to ensure its safety?
            1. +2
              18 September 2021 19: 30
              It was you who described the approach of Admiral Gorshkov in the construction of the Fleet. Then there was such a rule - before laying one submarine, you need to build:
              - one ocean tanker,
              - one ocean-going dry cargo ship,
              - two floating cranes,
              - two fishing trawlers,
              - one passenger ship,
              - two port and one ocean tug.
              This is for example. On average, at least 10 civil and commercial ships should be built for one warship.
              Quote: Osipov9391
              And if we assume for a conditional million dollars to build an ore-carrying vessel and, after its launch, make one voyage from Australia to Germany with a cargo of titanium-magnetite ore, then this conditional million dollars will be recouped by the vessel in almost one voyage.

              A similar example was once given to me by an old shipbuilder from Severodvinsk, only as an example there was one ocean tanker with oil, which, after its construction, recouped its full cost in one voyage on the Hamburg-Melbourne route. And for the rest of his life, this tanker earned money for the construction of a military fleet.
              The same was done by fishing trawlers, dry cargo ships and other vessels built under this program.
              Gorshkov believed that building the Oceanic Navy was possible ONLY by building a powerful merchant, industrial and commercial fleet. Sailors, foremen, officers and warrant officers who have served in the navy must have a place for employment, where they can apply their knowledge, skills, experience. At the same time, the Fleet will have a personnel reserve in case of mobilization from people who have not lost the habit of the sea and have not lost their skills.

              A powerful commercial fleet in the Russian Federation is already being built, fields on the Arctic Shelf are being developed, the NSR is being developed and equipped, in Kamchatka they are going to build a transshipment LNG HAB for transshipment of LNG from ice-class gas carriers to ordinary ones, because the ice class costs almost 4 times more and is transported along the entire route their supplies are too expensive. New ports in the Arctic and on the coast of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, new powerful shipyards in Primorye and on the Kola Peninsula ... All this must be PROTECTED.
              And to ensure freedom of navigation on all routes of these tankers, gas carriers, dry cargo vessels ...
              Perhaps realizing this, the number of frigate destroyers 22350M planned for construction has been announced - 20 - 24 pcs. And they intend to build them at several shipyards at the same time.
              Where does the money for the fleet come from?
              Yes, from the same - from trade.
              hi
    3. The comment was deleted.
  3. +9
    16 September 2021 18: 41
    Russian and Imperial Navy
    So there were two? Which of the two did Tsushima die? Russian or Imperial. So for information, even before Alaska, California was sold to some rogue, literally for a penny, for several tens of thousands of dollars. Then, gold was found on the sold territory and pretty quickly. " Gold in California, the most selective! Chileans, on the ships until all the gold was taken! "(C)
    But the United States did not leave Guantanamo, and do not think.
    The United States exercises its state sovereignty in this territory unconditionally and in full, and Cuba's jurisdiction is purely formal, which is recognized by the US Supreme Court. "From a practical point of view, Guantanamo is not abroad," the judges ruled. The Basmanny Court will be able to make such a decision, well, at least with regard to the Russian base in Gyumri? I simply do not mention the far abroad. smile
    1. -3
      16 September 2021 18: 50
      Quote: parusnik
      Will the Basmanny Court be able to make such a decision, well, at least with regard to the Russian base in Gyumri?

      Yes, he has a lot to do until 2024 ... Some naive expect that he will be able to make a decision on a criminal conspiracy to sell public property for a penny and the results of the notorious privatization.
      feel
    2. +2
      16 September 2021 20: 29
      Quote: parusnik
      The United States exercises its state sovereignty in this territory unconditionally and in full, and Cuba's jurisdiction is purely formal, which is recognized by the US Supreme Court. "From a practical point of view, Guantanamo is not overseas," the judges said.

      The American Navy ruled, but the court just announced it.
  4. +2
    16 September 2021 18: 48
    The idea of ​​meeting an aggressor on distant sea approaches is generally sly, since coastal forces, all other things being equal, always have superiority over naval groupings.

    The article clearly states why we need databases:
    the Francoists, possessing as many as two Washington cruisers, did whatever they wanted with the Soviet merchant fleet

    Not everything boils down to direct confrontation, and it is not always convenient for the same US to openly adjust its fleet to support "its villains" who have clearly compromised themselves, but the inability of our fleet in a remote region to oppose something to a "villain", or vice versa, to cover up an ally, undermines the reputation of our state and reduces the desire to cooperate with us.
    1. Cat
      +13
      16 September 2021 19: 16
      cover up an ally, undermines the reputation of our state and reduces the desire to cooperate with us.

      I don’t want to be cynical, but name at least one ally, the benefits of cooperation with which will cover the costs of creating and maintaining a fleet sufficient to maintain a reputation.
      The US Navy is not an example, since it was created for completely different purposes, namely, to control international maritime trade. And the support of your villains is so, a side task, a nice bonus.
      1. -2
        16 September 2021 19: 33
        And we do not have such a fleet - therefore, there are no such allies. Now our bourgeoisie have finally decided to invest billions in all sorts of CARs and Venezuela, and in order to secure their investments, they hire something like a PMC in order to prevent the favorite method of the United States to change the owner in such countries to American ones - a coup. But they also have another method - to incite a neighboring state by organizing a war. The Chinese have invested hundreds of billions in the extraction of minerals and so on in third world countries, but realizing the risks, they began to build a modern fleet and bases for it, including foreign ones, at a frantic pace. I don’t think they need aircraft carriers to fight for Taiwan across the strait.
  5. +3
    16 September 2021 19: 19
    The main question is: do we need an ocean-going fleet and world politics? In my opinion, being a regional power, but the strongest in this weight category, is a much more pragmatic and achievable goal.
    1. +6
      16 September 2021 20: 06
      Quote: Basarev
      The main question is: do we need an ocean-going fleet and world politics? In my opinion, being a regional power, but the strongest in this weight category, is a much more pragmatic and achievable goal.

      If the United States renounces the role of the world hegemon and no one wants to take their place (and they will) appear, then of course. And the main dream itself is that if all people were honest and decent, then the states themselves would not be needed, neither the army, nor the police, nor judges, inspectors, guards, the military-industrial complex, no matter how much money would humanity save, and how many people could additionally to do peaceful labor)))
    2. -1
      16 September 2021 23: 31
      Quote: Basarev
      In my opinion, to be a regional power, but the strongest in this weight category

      what kind of a mysterious regional weight category, if by such indicators as reserves of natural resources and the arsenal of nuclear weapons, the country is in first place in the world
      1. +3
        16 September 2021 23: 40
        Quote: Flood
        what kind of a mysterious regional weight category, if by such indicators as reserves of natural resources and the arsenal of nuclear weapons, the country is in first place in the world

        Only the current Russian Federation has nothing to do with these indicators, nuclear weapons came from the USSR, and nature gave the minerals, and the Soviet country again explored and organized production.
        Over the past 30 years, we have not had a single significant achievement, not only at the world level, but also at the regional level.
        Although no, by the number of billionaires and the total tonnage of their yachts, as well as by the total area in sq. kilometers of their palaces, we are probably in the first lines of ratings.
        1. +1
          17 September 2021 08: 06
          Quote: Stroporez
          Only the current Russian Federation has nothing to do with these indicators, nuclear weapons came from the USSR, and nature gave the minerals, and the Soviet country again explored and organized production.

          only this is known to every student
          and I hint at something else - no one will allow Russia to become a regional power with what we inherited from nature and ancestors.
          The world is becoming multipolar before our eyes. To be a regional power means to go into the sphere of influence of one of these poles. That is, in the top 20.
          That is, France is ten times larger, richer in natural resources and ... under someone's influence.
          As a result, after 20-30 years, faces and legs remain from the army. What for? There is no one to fight with. Come and take it warm.
          1. +1
            17 September 2021 10: 14
            Quote: Flood
            no one will allow Russia to become a regional power with what we inherited from nature and ancestors

            So.
  6. +1
    16 September 2021 19: 35
    Cam Ranh, 17th OPESK, 169th OGSAP ...
    Just "thrown into the abyss."
  7. +6
    16 September 2021 19: 40
    I think this is a general reflection of our foreign policy - it is not systemic. We do not have a long-term plan - neither for the near zone, nor for the mainland. Those plans that "seem to be" are a set of certain ideas, the degree of adequacy of which within the framework of our political system is traditionally not assessed in any way soberly. Not under the tsar, not under the USSR, and even more so now. I believe that we have the guts to think of ourselves as a global power a la the United States or Great Britain or China, or even at worst France - we either bought convenient historical moments, or now, objectively, economically not in the best shape in order for this to be justified. However, plans for Eurasia-Africa as a "zone of control" in the future, we should also build through the creation of a NETWORK bases. If only for the reason that this would increase our own weight in Eurasian affairs, as in the highest priority for the foreseeable future. In Africa, therefore, it is desirable for us to have at least 3 bases - in the west, east and closer to the south. The base in eastern Africa could be replaced by some kind of base in the Middle East states - but taking into account the specifics of the region, it is difficult for me to judge to what extent this would be a feasible idea. It would be desirable to find a presence in the Indian Ocean. Finally, between the Indian Ocean and our territory in the east of the country, one more transshipment point is definitely needed. In total - for a start, 5-6 bases purely for Eurasia + Africa. This is the bare minimum. In addition to what we already have in the SAR. In the presence of these objects + - it would be possible to say that we have some kind of plan and the ability to act in a region of priority importance.
    Accordingly, these should be large objects - and above all it should be exactly the COMPLEX. The construction of all this makes sense only if we are ready to grab onto these objects like a tick and exploit them mercilessly for many years for political, military and economic purposes. It's better to forget about American states, etc., until we have at least 4 fleets of the world.
  8. +1
    16 September 2021 20: 07
    Quote: paul3390
    Maybe - at the same time, remember who ordered to leave Cam Ranh and Lourdes? And this is by no means Yeltsin ...

    You can remember, but each time period is specific. That was a period of inertia of hopes for a good West.
  9. +4
    16 September 2021 20: 15
    no bases - no sea trade, no trade - no ocean-going fleet, the navy degenerates into a narrow instrument against specific neighbors, and the level of politics - into a regional one. And in the era of the nuclear missile, nothing has changed: if you want to control trade routes and defend your homeland on distant frontiers, send squadrons. Where to send? Into emptiness? Where are the ships to replenish supplies, and the sailors to rest?


    I have a simple question for the author, which country in the modern world is ready to go into conflict with the United States and provide Russia with territory for creating a naval base. In this matter, it must be understood that if such a country appears, Russia will have to not only maintain a naval base, but also provide financial and economic assistance to this country, after the entire so-called "civilized world" begins to collapse, at the command of the United States , economic and financial cooperation with this country. How much will it cost Russia and is such a base needed?
    1. +2
      16 September 2021 20: 26
      I have a simple question for the author, which country, in the modern world, is ready to go into conflict with the United States and provide Russia with territory for creating a naval base

      Now China has taken the path of creating an ocean-going navy - 15 foreign bases.

      There is another question - if we are not able to occupy our own market - why do we need strangers? Water does not flow under a lying stone - and our big business mostly prefers to lie down. And there are no large enough interests abroad - there is no way to "recoup" the creation and maintenance of an ocean-going fleet ...
      1. 0
        16 September 2021 21: 00
        Quote: Chief Officer Lom
        Now China has taken the path of creating an ocean-going navy - 15 foreign bases.


        It is not worth comparing China and Russia economically. In China, the Blue Sky program is currently underway, metallurgical production is being reduced in order to improve the environment for the Olympics, they deliberately go to reduce income for the sake of the Olympics, Russia cannot not allow this, but even think about such actions.

        There is another question - if we are not able to occupy our own market - why do we need strangers? Water does not flow under a lying stone - and our big business mostly prefers to lie down. And there are no sufficiently large interests abroad - there is no possibility of "recouping" the creation and maintenance of an ocean-going fleet.

        No one has canceled the fight for markets, but unfortunately Russia cannot yet pursue an "aggressive policy" in this matter, there are examples of this.
  10. Eug
    +1
    16 September 2021 20: 24
    We need bases along with supply chains to them. Otherwise - endure, as in the case of Turkey .. As for me, the way out is overseas territories (buy, rent, ensure stability) with a self-sustaining economic, financial and military complex ...
  11. 0
    16 September 2021 21: 00
    The idea was beautiful: to take under the patronage of the Madagascar pirates, creating an intermediate base for trade with India.
    Did the pirates want to take protection? laughing
  12. 0
    16 September 2021 21: 09
    Quote: smaug78
    Did the pirates want to take protection? laughing

    Would you ask them? Pyotr did not suffer from hunchback disease of the brain ...
  13. +4
    16 September 2021 21: 26
    The topic is probably sensible, but untimely. Bases are money, a lot of money for their maintenance. Do we have such a huge military budget to spend on overseas bases? And then - what ships to send to these bases? There are about two dozen ocean ships in all fleets, and not all of them are serviceable, many are completely outdated. Maybe they could guard our merchant ships somewhere, but the fleet has the most important tasks at our borders: ensuring the deployment of SSBNs, protecting the Crimea and specifically the bridge, protecting the Southern Kuriles. Therefore, I believe that we must start with the main thing - the revival of the military and merchant navy, the revival of naval aviation. When we reach the sustainable development of our Navy, then it will be possible to think about foreign bases.
  14. +1
    16 September 2021 21: 27
    I read somewhere an article that Denmark offered to sell the Nicobar and Vergin Islands to Russia. It seems like the mother of Nicholas 2 was a Danish princess. From a geographical point of view, the Nicobar Islands in the Indian Ocean lie on the sea communications to the Far East, and the Verginsky Islands are also opposite the Panama Canal, there were no far-sighted admirals and politicians in those days.
  15. +4
    16 September 2021 22: 08
    It is necessary to start with the exact, namely with numbers - the modern United States has 33 naval bases. These are naval bases, with a total of 800 US bases.

    And to increase the "accuracy" it is necessary to compare the parameters from the near-various branches of our knowledge about the Fleet and its basing: compare the length of the coastline of the Russian Federation and the United States and climatic conditions (in terms of geography); let's compare the budget of the American fleet and the Russian one (finance); let's compare the number and VI built ships of the Russian Federation and the United States, say, for the last three years (economy). Let's stretch our legs on clothes, we still do not have a base for the only aircraft carrier in our homeland! The author sheds crocodile tears over Hawaii, and when we in the Kuriles (Matua Island) will be able to portray something similar, what was there under the Japanese? Or the "base" on Kamchatka in Avacha Bay, cut off from the mainland, can be equated with the mainland bases of the American fleet? Even Sevastopol was not brought to mind in seven years, but give our "naval commanders" a rest for the crews in Cuba and Cam Ranh!
  16. +2
    16 September 2021 23: 53
    in general, the Russian Federation already has several unnecessary bases, Baltiysk, Vladivostok, Novorossiysk, only bases are needed on the Northern Fleet, plus Petropavlovsk Kamchatsky and Sevastopol, and several PMTO, namely Baltiysk, Kaspiysk, St. Petersburg, Sovetskaya Gavan, Tartus ..., .. ... but left Lourdes in vain ... you can minus
  17. +2
    17 September 2021 06: 05
    From a military-strategic point of view, the author argues correctly. But from the point of view of elementary logic, it’s not very good, in my opinion.
    In modern and recent history, the rule is one: first, a strong economy, and only then military power - otherwise this military power will simply have nothing to support, all costs will be completely in vain.

    Well, well, let's build a bunch of bases around the world "for the last pennies" - and then what? After all, there are a lot of fixed costs:
    - Buy the elite of local countries (and even buy it so generously and reliably that potential opponents could not "outbid" them for sure);
    - Build a sufficient number of modern ships to create a strong grouping in the region (such that the first really strong AUG of a potential adversary will no longer be able to "just shrug off");
    - Rebuild and equip the base itself;
    - Maintain and supply this base (and even not forgetting to regularly bash the "allies" on the territory of which the base is located).
    - Fund a good cadre school, including normal salaries, as well as a significant increase in hours of study and practical training;
    - Fund the quality work of designers, including normal salaries, as well as the cost of all necessary materials and R&D;
    - In the end, at least carry out regular maintenance, updating and re-equipment of both the base itself and all equipment based on it ...

    I think everyone understands that this is just gigantic money - even for one base, not to mention several units or even dozens of bases. Is all this "vanity fair" poor (to put it mildly) country ???

    For the sake of "raising patriotism and ratings" personally, the authorities and all those who have joined the "feeding trough" in advance - well, in principle, it is theoretically possible ...
    Only here what will happen to such a country later, which is so irrationally spending its already scarce funds? What can happen next inside such a country - which "lives beyond its means", and directs its last pennies not to the economy, but to "measuring by a well-known three-letter organ"? We have already seen two examples in our history (more precisely, we saw one personally, and the second only we remember from history). For the third time we want "senseless and merciless" ???
    After all, a simple layman cannot be fed for a long time with such "greatness", the duration of the effect of this "magic trick with the ears" is limited in time. Sooner or later, the layman will still spit on hurray-TV and pay attention to everything that is happening around him - at least he will look into his own refrigerator or compare his standard of living with other countries, and as a maximum he will start asking more and more acute and evil questions authorities. But the money is gone, bye-bye - almost everything has been irretrievably spent on reckless "military show-off", there is nothing more to develop the economy. Finita la comedy, comrades ...

    In general, the main idea of ​​this commentary of mine - here you have to think seven times and "measure" everything. Or a hundred. Or even a thousand. Until they understand.
    How did the same "cunning" Chinese, for example. Who at first developed the economy quite successfully in several decades (and, moreover, skillfully taking advantage of the weakness of Western companies to maximize profits, double wisdom!) - and only then, having accumulated real economic strength, began to "flex their muscles", invest heavily in the military-industrial complex, begin a total re-equipment of their armed forces, negotiate the creation of military bases in foreign territories, and generally participate in all these other "adult games."
  18. 0
    17 September 2021 08: 49
    The main problem of foreign naval bases, apart from politics, is the naval base on its territory. More precisely, the lack of a guaranteed connection between the first and the second. And what will happen to the naval base, which is not connected with the territories of Russia, moreover, located thousands of kilometers away, in the event of a war, when it will not be possible to send supplies and a fleet there - "I die, but I do not surrender"? In the southern direction, in which case, ships and supply vessels will need to break through: the Black Sea straits, the Mediterranean Sea, along the shores of potentially hostile states, Suez or Gibraltar. In the Baltic: through the Gulf of Finland, the Danish straits and the North Sea. In the North: past NATO member Norway, past Forer and Iceland, then Shetlands and England. In the Far East, it is a little better, although Vladivostok has similar problems, but a bunch of natural factors appear, such as: seismic and tsunami hazard, climate, remoteness and associated small population. Unfortunately, our main problem is the lack of a normal full-fledged outlet to the World Ocean. And it is almost unrealistic to solve it - you need the seizure or political annexation of Scandinavia, Turkey and Japan. Even the development of the Far East will not solve the problem. The Sea of ​​Okhotsk is freezing, the Kuriles and Kamchatka are a powder keg, in Chukotka, to put it mildly, it is cold, and again, ice for most of the year. And you don't need to equate us with the United States, Britain or China, all of them have much better access to the ocean than ours. On the other hand, this is also our advantage, as it will complicate, in case of war, the use of enemy fleets when attacking our territory. The same aircraft carriers in the western direction will have to work from the Mediterranean and North Seas (the captain or admiral, who will lead the AUG to the Black or Baltic Seas, can immediately give a "Hero of Russia"), or from the limited waters of the Barents and Norwegian Seas, where the weather is also great part of the year excludes the use of carrier-based aircraft.
  19. 0
    17 September 2021 13: 12
    Quote: bayard
    It's just too early for us to have bases until the Fleet is seen.

    I fully support! But there is still trouble with the ocean-going fleet. And there is nowhere to build in the required volumes - one SF does not cope, Amber will be busy at the BDK, the Bay at the UDC, the Baltic Shipyard - icebreakers, the Admiralty shipyards - there are basically no submarines (we need personnel, they are known to solve everything!) And there is nothing - where projects of new superfrigates and EVs? We will not say anything about missile cruisers and AB. And most importantly, the existing infrastructure will not be able to accept the massive construction of ships of the 1st rank - in order to do it, you still need to invest a lot of money to bring it to a normal level and quality. Especially at the Black Sea Fleet, Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet
  20. exo
    0
    18 September 2021 14: 25
    At what pace the ships of the ocean zone are being built, with such a speed and thoughts are swarming. So far, there is nothing to talk about. For the coastal fleet, overseas bases are a luxury.
  21. 0
    19 September 2021 15: 43
    The information is excellently communicated. The world's oceans are closed without foreign bases. Who is right and wrong, history will judge while the state is at a broken trough. Spain refused to refuel, Sudan with the base is not easy with the logistics. And without her there is no fleet.
  22. Eug
    0
    26 September 2021 08: 14
    As for me, the bases, communications to which lie next to potentially hostile territories, have "negative connectivity" - S. Pereslegin's term. It's another matter if the bases are located in territories capable of independently (without support
    metropolis) stand up for themselves ... this is fantastic today. The way out, as for me, is supply vessels for long voyages (rendezvous: in the ocean), they can also change part of the crew. Another thing is that it is not rich with them either ...
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. 0
    21 November 2021 09: 36
    It seems that on each branch there are one or two turboputriots on duty, namely on duty, who are trying to explain to all of us how well we live, about netanalagavetics, about the great and omnipotent outperforming everyone.

    So it is, then the "inconvenient" vote will be blocked, then the comments will be closed if they are on "forbidden" topics ...