"Obsolescence" of classical Russian literature

205
"Obsolescence" of classical Russian literature

- Speransky ... Speransky ... What kind of writer is this, Speransky? Didn't hear something.
- Lev Aleksanych, a wonderful writer.
- Of the modern, or what?
- Yes, much more modern. He writes beautiful novels.


There was an opinion that the school curriculum is overloaded with Russian literature of the XNUMXth century, which at the moment is slightly outdated and not modern. There are also "recommendations" that the same Ostrovsky (which is "a ray of light", not "How tempered ...") is slightly outdated and it also needs to be "reworked".



As a matter of fact, something similar already took place at the beginning of the XX century, when Mr. Mayakovsky proposed to "throw off the ship of modernity" some Russian classics. The problem here is not even how wonderful, good and wonderful classical Russian literature is. This is not the question. And the fact that it arose quite late. By historical by European standards.

And, as a matter of fact, the "wealth of Russian literature" is very, very relative. In particular, a complete misunderstanding among the reading public is caused by the fact that the "sun of Russian poetry" is not very popular abroad. And here everything is quite simple. We must look at the situation in historical comparison.


You can start, oddly enough, with "The Captain's Daughter" and compare it (in terms of the literary language, for example) with "Shagreen Skin", which was published five years earlier (1836 - the first, 1831 - the second). And as if a lot becomes quite clear. That is, if Pushkin literally had to "invent" the literary Russian language, then Balzac was not faced with such a task.

The great French writer, so to speak, "saw far away (wrote well and beautifully), because he stood on the shoulders of giants." That is, classical French literature did not emerge at the beginning of the XNUMXth century. And not even at the beginning of the XNUMXth century. Everything was done much, much earlier. That is why Pushkin's works (both prose and poetry) could hardly be in demand there. No matter how disappointing it is.

The very first literary salons in France appeared already in the 1521th century. Queen Margot (the eldest) started the tradition here. And this was even before Ivan the Terrible. Such are the layouts. Historical time mismatch. And if we talk about the creation of a "modern literary language", then in Germany Martin Luther was also involved in this (translation of the Bible into German 1522-XNUMX), and this was in the same XNUMXth century. But book printing began there in the middle of the XNUMXth century ...

And literature in these countries developed consistently and practically continuously, and no one was trying to throw off anyone from the "steamer of our time" ... It was just that then steamers were not invented.

The era of steamers


By the way, this can serve as a starting point: classical Russian literature was de facto created already in the industrial era (the era of steam and steel). Previously, they simply did not have time.

Why, how and in what way it could become obsolete, taking into account its creation precisely in the era industrial, it is quite difficult to understand. Especially, for example, remembering that the classics of Spanish literature (the "golden age"), in general, was created in the second half of the XNUMXth - first half of the XNUMXth centuries, that is, during the de facto post-feudal times (for Spain), the greatest Spanish novel sharply ridicules vices late feudalism. And even in this turbulent, but fruitful period for Spain, no one tried to “throw outdated” writers from the galleon of modernity.

Lope de Vega and Cervantes are like the era before the Peace of Westphalia ... And somehow no one in Spain considers the literature of that era obsolete ... While the titans of Russian literature are either the XNUMXth century, or even the beginning of the XNUMXth. And the "earliest" of them - Nikolai Vasilievich Gogol - oddly enough, is quite modern to himself (the themes raised in his works are very relevant for modern Russia). And he is quoted often, almost more often than Mr. Medvedev.

Yes, oddly enough, the Russian classics were formed in parallel with the telegraph, telephone and railways. That is, by historical standards, literally "yesterday."

Something was somehow created in Russian literature in the eighteenth century, but God forbid to read this. Usually. So here Fonvizin with his "Minor" is just some kind of pioneer. For some reason, Fonvizin is being studied here, but not appreciated ... But he seems to be a forerunner ... He managed to be noted already in the XNUMXth century, and this is just as important for Russia as almost the first airplane of Mozhaisky.

A lot was written in the XNUMXth century, but when Solzhenitsyn is offered as the greatest writer, it becomes somehow strange. So-so writer. Let's take political journalism separately, writing separately. There were ratings where he was positioned, as it were, even higher than Dostoevsky. Laughed for a long time. Nobel laureate. The conscience of the Russian people.

There is also Bulgakov with the greatest "bestseller" for the late Soviet era "The Master and Margarita". "Quiet Don", Arkady Gaidar ... There are a lot of things. But, in fact, as far as poetry is concerned, here we were lucky in the XNUMXth century, more than enough of it was created. We were not so lucky with prose. This is if we consider quality, not quantity.

Briefly with all this literature can be found, for example, in the wonderful book by Dmitry Bykov "Soviet Literature. Short course ". This is to watch out for something. The book is very interesting, but sad. So, someone may not like it, but the “great Russian literature”, as it were, in the 30s, ends completely. Or rather, even already in the 20s.

And who is there left "on the ship of our time"?

And not so many decent people stay on the upper deck. This is when compared with European giants such as France. By the way, yes, the creator of the Russian literary language, Alexander Sergeevich, could quite possibly ride on steamers at one time, if he had the desire and financial capabilities. They were already.

And about Mandelstam's “Why are you complaining, poetry is respected only here — they kill for it. After all, nowhere else is anyone killed for poetry ... ”. So he simply was not, apparently, familiar with the fate of the "sun of Spanish poetry" Frederico García Lorca, who was shot precisely for poetry and precisely in the middle of the XNUMXth century. In cultural Spain. Why cultural? But because the investigator who was in charge of Lorca's case (an educated Spaniard) knew his work very well. Literally by heart. From large poems to small children's counting rhymes. And the scene from "The Era of Mercy" during that interrogation unfolded much wider.

And more about "obsolescence".

Recently I met an article permeated with the bitter insult of the author, who was called in a modern way "the author", the insult was deep and unbearable. Purely so feminine. However, the problem is much older. Strictly speaking, European culture begins with this question. Aristophanes in "Clouds", brilliantly anticipating the era of tolerance (or fearing to be thrown off the triremes of our time), carefully introduced two strictly scientific terms instead of the general (masculine) thrush: thrush and thrush.

And the problem with "Russian classical literature" is precisely this: it is not very classical in terms of the time of its creation and it is not so much that much has been written.
Our news channels

Subscribe and stay up to date with the latest news and the most important events of the day.

205 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +22
    8 September 2021 15: 09
    I make oblique students read Chekhov. It helps.
    Specialty, for reference, "Information Systems".
    1. Cat
      +20
      8 September 2021 15: 25
      oblique students read Chekhov. It helps.
      Specialty, for reference, "Information systems"

      Here! I am sometimes asked what the job of a programmer is like. The answer is: to the work of a writer (if it is not an Indian coder). The people are surprised. Why be surprised? If you cannot clearly state your thoughts, then it is too early to write programs for you.
      1. +14
        8 September 2021 16: 12
        The article is rather short and - in my opinion - did not fully cover the topic. But main question is clear: is classical Russian literature needed today? Need, of course, today and tomorrow, and always! Why? She teaches not only the beautiful Russian language, but also the attitude towards life. And without that Russian people no way !!!
        1. -4
          8 September 2021 18: 36
          The article is rather short and - in my opinion - did not fully cover the topic.

          The author correctly raised the topic:
          So, someone may not like it, but the “great Russian literature”, as it were, in the 30s, ends completely. Or rather, even already in the 20s.

          From these years, the occupation of Russian literature (culture) by foreigners began, who did not begin to develop and move it. They just sit on the "suction" of the state (taking all the seats) like parasites. Although why how - in fact, there are parasites.
          I'll insert the classics
          1. +7
            8 September 2021 20: 29
            From these years, the occupation of Russian literature (culture) by foreigners began, who did not begin to develop and move it. They just sit on the "suction" of the state (taking all the seats) like parasites

            that is, in your opinion, it turns out that Ilf and Petrov, Sholokhov, Simonov, Tvardovsky are parasites? and about the other Strugatskys with the Weiners not even worth mentioning?
            1. -20
              8 September 2021 20: 34
              that is, in your opinion, it turns out that Ilf and Petrov, Sholokhov, Simonov, Tvardovsky are parasites? and about the other Strugatskys with the Weiners not even worth mentioning?

              Can we compare it from 1800 to 1900 and from 1920 to 2000?
              Writers of the 20th century and next to them did not lie with writers of the 19th century.
              You will also compare the Uplifted Virgin Land with War and Peace)))
              1. +8
                8 September 2021 20: 43
                Quote: lucul
                You will also compare the Uplifted Virgin Land with War and Peace)))

                How can they be compared? These are two great works, they are just different. I am sorry that you could not understand the works of Sholokhov.
                1. -14
                  8 September 2021 20: 44
                  I'm sorry that you could not understand the works of Sholokhov

                  Have you read War and Peace in full?
                  1. +4
                    8 September 2021 20: 56
                    Quote: lucul
                    Have you read War and Peace in full?

                    Yes, and more than once. Have you read Sholokhov?
                    1. -15
                      8 September 2021 21: 34
                      Yes, and more than once. Have you read Sholokhov?

                      Yes, I read the same Virgin Soil, from the age of 12, 15 times, precisely for humor. But Sholokhov is far from the depths of War and Peace, together with Quiet Don.
                      1. +16
                        8 September 2021 22: 06
                        Quote: lucul
                        But Sholokhov is far from the depths of War and Peace, together with Quiet Don.

                        You want to say that the character of Gorigory Melekhov or Aksinya is described less deeply and talentedly than the characters of Bolkonsky and Natasha Rostova? It is difficult to find an author who would describe that time so accurately and succinctly. But in my opinion "Quiet Don" is a classic of Soviet literature.
                      2. +1
                        9 September 2021 21: 51
                        And it always seemed to me that the Soviet "War and Peace" was Ivanov's book "Eternal Call"
                      3. +1
                        9 September 2021 08: 29
                        Just do not forget to indicate the direction of this. They do not hate Sholokhov in schools.
              2. +2
                8 September 2021 22: 42
                Quote: lucul
                Writers of the 20th century and did not lie around

                Yesterday, in a conversation at home, I remembered Uncle Onegin, and today at work - a universal stamp comrade. Polykhaeva. One does not interfere with the other, or is there something wrong with my literary taste? .. request
              3. +3
                9 September 2021 08: 27
                Indeed, unlike Tolstoy's rubbish, which is just rubbish, and an instrument of torture for schoolchildren, Virgin Soil Upturned and Sholokhov in general are undoubtedly masterpieces.
                1. +6
                  9 September 2021 14: 52
                  Personal impressions - at school they were forced to read war and peace in the summer - 98% were scored after the 1st chapter, the passage of the program at school gave the best result - they read 2-3 chapters. And they scribbled an essay somehow. But after Sholokhov with his Shchukar and the adventures of the Cat Behemoth Bulgakov, the whole class read these books to the cover. It's just that some authors are too boring for children to study (Tolstoy Dostaevsky was really torture), maybe it's worth taking them in grade 9 and later? I think it will be more useful just by trying to change the order of presentation of Russian classics in schools.
                  1. +3
                    9 September 2021 21: 47
                    Both Tolstoy and Dostoevsky have more suitable works for high school students.
                  2. +3
                    10 September 2021 06: 29
                    Quote: evgen1221
                    Tolstoy Dostaevsky was really torture

                    I would also add Fonvizin, Radishchev and Chernyshevsky here. This is really ...
        2. +1
          8 September 2021 18: 41
          the article speaks of the delay in the abolition of serfdom by 300-400 years and general education (primary school) as well. from these two foundations would have grown both the literary salons of the "Queen
          political nation, and a more peaceful influence on the surrounding countries and their conquest-submission (soft power) -dr power would be, for example, over Poland

          it's good that the author of the article is indicated
          1. -1
            9 September 2021 08: 30
            400 years ago, this serfdom was finally introduced. No economic ruling will be canceled.
      2. 0
        8 September 2021 16: 40
        Quote: author
        ..the reading public is completely misunderstood by the fact that the "sun of Russian poetry" is not very popular abroad.

        it is clear that the author considers himself to be a "reading public", and feeling himself to be messing, reveals her thoughts, although this is more likely from an anecdote - "... you just don't know how to cook it"laughing
        the fact that in the West they sometimes perceive the Russian classics strangely is a fact:
        https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/mongwu/12178073/594589/594589_original.jpg
        https://cs10.pikabu.ru/post_img/2019/12/09/9/1575901683195676769.jpg
        https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/5479043.html
        belay
        but I, by and large, do not care how Europeans relate to our great writers - I like Gogol, Dostoevsky, Aksakov, Leskov ... and that's enough.
    2. +6
      8 September 2021 15: 26
      Quote: sergo1914
      I make oblique students read Chekhov. It helps.

      I made my sailors read aloud, I thought tongue-tied would go away. But it was not the same contingent, they still didn’t stop swearing.
      1. +9
        8 September 2021 15: 34
        Quote: tihonmarine
        Quote: sergo1914
        I make oblique students read Chekhov. It helps.

        I made my sailors read aloud, I thought tongue-tied would go away. But it was not the same contingent, they still didn’t stop swearing.


        But "sir," then was it added?
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. 0
          8 September 2021 15: 38
          Quote: sergo1914
          But "sir," then was it added?

          No, but after that they added - "sorry dad".
      2. +14
        8 September 2021 16: 24
        Quote: tihonmarine
        But it was not the same contingent, it still swearsЬXia did not stop.

        And it happens. I remember there was an emergency in kindergarten - the children began to swear. A commission was assembled to solve this problem and it turned out that a few days before the emergency, a team of plumbers worked in the kindergarten. Called them to the "carpet" and let's put them to shame. Plumbers unlock, swear that it is not them. Then the director asks to tell how the repair was carried out.
        Well one also says:
        - I stand and hold the stepladder, and Kolya welds the pipe. At this moment, molten metal is dripping behind my collar, so I say to him: "Nikolai"! Can't you see the hot metal falling behind my collar? Please don't do that anymore. "
        laughing
        1. +5
          8 September 2021 16: 58
          "Nikolay"! Can't you see the hot metal falling behind my collar? Please don't do that anymore. "

          Laughed long and cheerfully! laughing
        2. +4
          8 September 2021 18: 21
          Quote: ROSS 42
          Well, I said to him: "Nikolai"! Can't you see the hot metal falling behind my collar? Please don't do that anymore. "

          Well, here too, you moor, and they are like sleepy flies, and I told them "Gentlemen, is it possible to figure it out as soon as possible, the steamer is leaving!" and they told me "dad, but the weather is stormy, Vasya missed a negligent end, I'm sorry, we'll fix it now!"
          1. -1
            8 September 2021 20: 05
            Excuse me for missing Vasya to a careless end? laughing
            1. 0
              9 September 2021 07: 54
              Quote: Stroibat stock
              Excuse me for missing Vasya to a careless end?



              Careless Vasya missed the mooring line (well, not his own).
        3. +1
          9 September 2021 17: 09
          The culture of speech is instilled very quickly, if desired. For me, like other students, (and he had a specific contingent - blacks, a couple of Puerto Ricans and myself) Sifu Jeff Spivey very quickly corrected the speech. For any mate, ANY, there was a slap in the face, and exactly on the lips and nose. And Sifu Spivey's paw was heavy, he did not break his noses, he didn’t knock out his teeth, but I don’t know ever when he didn’t slap someone like that. It worked perfectly, after two weeks any swearing stopped swearing. "God damn, you are such a clumsy oaf", "Oh, Bloody hell, what in 9 hells were you thinking, and what, do tell, where you thinking with". This is how we expressed ourselves in his presence. As in children's literature. And Sifu Spivey said, "Don't be offended, guys, I'm just doing what your parents should have done when you were 7-8 years old."
      3. +5
        8 September 2021 22: 55
        Quote: tihonmarine
        I made my sailors read aloud, I thought tongue-tied would go away. But it was not the same contingent, they still didn’t stop swearing.

        I already wrote here: sailors don't swear, they talk to them. Yes I had a senior officer - he used foul language, but with "you". Parenting, damn it! lol
        1. +1
          9 September 2021 08: 03
          Quote: Motorist
          I already wrote here: sailors don't swear, they talk to them. I was a senior officer - he used foul language, but with "you". Parenting, damn it!
          In a difficult and extreme situation, neither the master nor the senior officer should curse, people should see strength and their hope in you. Squeeze yourself into a ball, but don’t show that it’s hard for you, but people will see your weaknesses from the mat. Let go of a little joke: but when the situation stabilizes, then turn down a beautiful, overflowing obscenity about God, soul and mother and Yakim Romanovich, and then the people will understand you with a bang.
          I myself am an excellent swearing man, but on my bridge I could not stand obscenities.
      4. +2
        9 September 2021 06: 47
        Quote: tihonmarine
        I made my sailors read aloud, I thought tongue-tied would go away. But it was not the same contingent, they still didn’t stop swearing

        you need to swear. just there are people who use this tool at the time and with knowledge of the matter and there are people who use the mat as an interdistrict including suffixes.

        as the classic said - could you use obscenities, I don't understand anything?
    3. 0
      8 September 2021 16: 02
      Quote: sergo1914
      I make oblique students read Chekhov. It helps.
      Specialty, for reference, "Information Systems".

      Maybe I missed something, but this is the first time I hear about such a topic as "obsolescence" of classical literature. Whether this topic is relevant, I doubt it.
      As in my opinion, now the big question among the younger generation is precisely the question - "What is classic literature and why read it, if there is nothing about Harry Potter, Batman, or, at worst, the secret of how to become a millionaire in a couple of months is not revealed? ".
      1. +9
        8 September 2021 16: 59
        Quote: credo
        Maybe I missed something, but this is the first time I hear about such a topic as "obsolescence" of classical literature

        The obsolescence of classical literature exists only in the minds of those clever people who were included in the school curriculum for the 11th grade of Solzhenitsyn, and the 10th grade is offered to read "The Picture of Dorian Gray", and that part of the youth who are familiar with literature only from films.
        1. +1
          9 September 2021 08: 38
          In the 11th grade, you can already be interested in history, and if they bring you Solzhenitsyn, and in the class someone says with the facts that this is just a lie, then you will understand that in literature lessons you are generally pushed some kind of game, and you will completely hate literature.

          At one time he wrote an essay on "House on the Embankment". Now I understand that Levka Shulepnikov is an allusion to Vasily Stalin, regardless of my attitude to certain things, for example, the professor there is an ordinary asshole from the 20-30s, who spread rot on others in discussions until he himself was persecuted, in general, most likely, a Trotskyist and an empty balabol, there he deserves. But then at school I just wasn't immersed in the setting. There is no literature without politics. Nekrasov's "Who Lives Well in Russia" is also a purely political work, although now it is irrelevant, and rather amusing.
          1. +1
            9 September 2021 08: 52
            Quote: EvilLion
            In 11th grade, you can already be interested in history

            not only possible, but also very desirable
            but physiology cannot be fooled
            at this age, other interests prevail among young men
    4. 0
      8 September 2021 16: 47
      Quote: sergo1914
      I make oblique students read Chekhov. It helps.

      after all, "tongue-tied" would be more accurate
      after all, we are discussing the classics
      1. 0
        8 September 2021 17: 13
        Quote: Flood
        Quote: sergo1914
        I make oblique students read Chekhov. It helps.

        after all, "tongue-tied" would be more accurate
        after all, we are discussing the classics


        KOSNOYAZYKY, th, th. The same as tongue-tied. Homer was blind, and Beethoven was deaf, And Demosthenes was tongue-tied. Kedrin,

        Source (print version): Dictionary of the Russian language: In 4 volumes / RAS, Institute of Linguistics. research; Ed. A.P. Evgenieva. - 4th ed., Erased. - M .: Rus. language; Polygraph resources, 1999; (electronic version): Fundamental electronic library
        1. 0
          8 September 2021 17: 19
          I'm not against "tongue-tied"
          I am against oblique languages
      2. +1
        8 September 2021 18: 39
        Quote: Flood
        after all, "tongue-tied" would be more accurate
        Tongue deafness is a disease that affects millions of people from all over the world. Both adults and children can have problems with the speech apparatus. A person characterized by inept phrase construction, bad style.
        The tongue-tied is the same. So you can use both expressions, and we are all, with rare exceptions, subject to this. Young people are bigger than the last generation. Many words of parasites "nishtyak, cool, hang out and so on."
        1. +2
          8 September 2021 18: 56
          colleagues, my comment was
          to the word "koso-lingual"
          what is it you pounced on?
          be careful
    5. +4
      8 September 2021 18: 00
      And that the works of Gorky, for example, "At the Bottom", "Mother", "Enemies" are not relevant, in my opinion, is very topical!
      1. +9
        8 September 2021 18: 06
        Quote: Private 89
        And that the works of Gorky, for example, "At the Bottom", "Mother", "Enemies" are not relevant, in my opinion, is very topical!


        Here "The Adventures of Cipollino" and "Dunno on the Moon" suddenly became relevant. Up to real criminal cases.
        1. +5
          8 September 2021 22: 24
          Quote: sergo1914
          Here "The Adventures of Cipollino" and "Dunno on the Moon" suddenly became relevant. Up to real criminal cases

          Laughing))) By the way, "Dunno on the Moon" generally claims to be a book of the Old Testament as a prophecy
    6. -1
      8 September 2021 19: 45
      Quote: sergo1914
      I make oblique students read Chekhov. It helps.
      Specialty, for reference, "Information Systems".

      Thank you Sergey! I hope there are still many of them left in Russia, although many are already dying out
      Reading books, libraries, etc. the cult of education, on this foundation the Great Country of the USSR was created! Conquered space and created a state of creators, etc. But many of the world's moneybags did not like this .. They needed a stupid consumer They threw everything into collapse from the inside and in the 90s and even now we all understood all the charms of "democracy and freedom" Whoever has more money rules (even if stupid and bandit) .. While we are resisting, but the losses are huge in the souls of our children and grandchildren
      They don't want to read !!! What to do and who is to blame ..? So far, this is how it goes in Russia to mother.
      PS I just read avidly on the Internet for a long time .. Although I would like natural books, leafing through the smell of pages .. Eh.
  2. +13
    8 September 2021 15: 11
    Understood nothing. How can literature be out of date?
    Is the Iliad out of date? Don Quixote? Notes on the Gallic War?

    The language may become outdated, but that's okay, that's what "translation adaptation" is for.

    The article is interesting, but I would like to deepen it. I look forward to continuing.
    The author began for his health, and ended with a listing of works ...
    1. 0
      8 September 2021 15: 18
      And I did not understand why these reflections were posted on VO? ...
      1. +5
        8 September 2021 15: 23
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        And I did not understand why these reflections were posted on VO? ...

        "Literary Gazette" has sunk into oblivion. Right now we will compete for the title of "The best critic and connoisseur of Russian classical literature."
        1. +2
          8 September 2021 23: 28
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          "Literaturnaya Gazeta" has sunk into oblivion.

          No, the smoking-room is alive ... But you and I haven’t issued a subscription, so we read here.



          https://lgz.ru/last_pub/
      2. +11
        8 September 2021 15: 29
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        And I did not understand why these reflections were posted on VO? ...

        Let it be, otherwise it’s about Ukraine every day, but 5 times. And then Afghan appeared.
        1. -8
          8 September 2021 16: 50
          Let it be, otherwise it’s about Ukraine every day, but 5 times

          It is more interesting to read about Ukraine! Funny!
      3. +5
        8 September 2021 15: 53
        And I did not understand why these reflections were posted on VO? ...

        Novaya Gazeta began a discussion about the school curriculum for literature.

        “Torture the beautiful.
        Why was Dostoevsky made a children's writer? "

        And as you know, victory in the trench is forged at the school desk. wink
      4. 0
        8 September 2021 16: 25
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        And I did not understand why these reflections were posted on VO? ...

        There's an explanation down there ... lol
      5. +2
        8 September 2021 18: 15
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        And I did not understand why these reflections were posted on VO? ...

        Because love for the Motherland (or at least respect for it) begins with love for parental coffins, love for native ashes. That is, to their own history and culture. And a significant layer of this culture and history is classical Russian literature.
        1. +6
          8 September 2021 18: 49
          Quote: astepanov
          Because love for the Motherland

          Everything is simple here:
          Where does the Motherland begin ...
          From the windows burning in the distance,
          From the old paternal budenovki,
          That somewhere in the closet we found,

          Or maybe it starts
          From the knock of wagon wheels
          And with an oath, which in his youth
          You brought it to your heart.
          1. +1
            8 September 2021 19: 21
            Quote: ROSS 42
            Where does the Motherland begin ...
            From the windows burning in the distance,
            From the old paternal budenovki,
            That somewhere in the closet we found,

            A Soviet person will understand this, not a single foreigner has such a litter.
    2. 0
      8 September 2021 18: 59
      Quote: Kitty Moore
      Understood nothing. How can literature be out of date?

      When I'm in a bad mood, I read the poems of Pushkin, Yesenin, an hour passes.
  3. +7
    8 September 2021 15: 12
    Life has become fleeting, there is no time to read. Only if on the train. Well, in the hospital, of course. I tried to listen to an audio book while driving, almost flew off the road. I started listening to "Hour of the Bull" and noticed that I could no longer hear about long descriptions of nature, etc. Reason asks for action ...
    1. +4
      8 September 2021 16: 38
      Began listening to "Hour of the Bull"

      Efremov is more of a philosopher than a writer, although an amazing philosopher.
    2. +2
      8 September 2021 16: 39
      Quote: sagitovich
      The mind asks for action ..

      While listening, you can hammer crutches into sleepers with a sledgehammer.
  4. +1
    8 September 2021 15: 14
    Respect to the author! As it seems to me (based on the article), we are on the same wavelength.
    1. +1
      8 September 2021 15: 30
      Quote: Nasr
      Respect to the author!

      And I liked it, it's a good article for a change, and it's necessary to remember the classics.
  5. +12
    8 September 2021 15: 15
    In the garden there is an elderberry, and in Kiev there is an uncle. And also - Dmitry Bykov (Zilbertrud) in the role of the Great Critic of Soviet Literature.
    1. +5
      8 September 2021 16: 19
      And yet - Dmitry Bykov ... ... in the role of the Great Critic of Soviet Literature.

      good I also thought about it. Found the "authority".
      1. +2
        8 September 2021 18: 28
        Quote: Okolotochny
        I also thought about it. Found the "authority".

        As grit, "I have not read, but I angrily condemn." Meanwhile, Bykov is a very subtle lyricist, probably one of our best poets. Look for his "Poems from the Black Notebook."
        Quote: Pushkar
        Dmitry Bykov (Zilbertrud) as the Great Critic of Soviet Literature.

        In-in, how can a Nazi not crawl out with his "Beat the Jews, save Russia!" My friend, I can assure you that you have not read Bykov and that you don’t remember a single line of it without the help of the Web - only the one-day stories that Efremov read.
        1. +1
          8 September 2021 21: 53
          Quote: astepanov
          In-in, how can a Nazi not crawl out with his "Beat the Jews, save Russia!"

          I am a Jew by my father's name and I wear his surname since birth, "my friend". I despise people who have abandoned their own father. He would have written under the name Zilbertrud - he would have read it, but so - I disdain.
          1. +1
            9 September 2021 18: 23
            And I do not disdain. Bykov's father Zilbertrud left the family when Dmitry was still young, and his mother gave her son her last name. Where do you see Dmitry's offense?
            In general, continue to angrily condemn and in no case read: what if carefully cherished beliefs break?
            1. 0
              9 September 2021 22: 32
              Quote: astepanov
              the mother gave her son her last name.

              Did his mother give him the passport too? When I received my passport, I was also asked what surname I would write in my passport. The one who betrayed his father will betray his homeland. And then one mother did not allow, the other father is a lawyer by nationality. Lyrically thin, you know.wink
        2. +3
          9 September 2021 06: 31
          Probably his "lyrical subtlety" and became the cause of outright Russophobia? Such a person cannot be cited as an example and an authoritative opinion.
    2. 0
      8 September 2021 18: 21
      And yet - Dmitry Bykov


      Как literary critic he's very good.
      1. 0
        10 September 2021 10: 17
        Quote: Olezhek
        And yet - Dmitry Bykov


        Как literary critic he's very good.

        And Hitler has some pretty good watercolors.
  6. -1
    8 September 2021 15: 22
    We were not so lucky with prose. This is if we consider quality, not quantity.

    but the “great Russian literature”, as it were, in the 30s, ends altogether. Or rather, even already in the 20s.

    A highly controversial statement, given Bunin and Nabokov. They, in fact, are the pinnacle of Russian classical literature and the standard of the Russian literary language. Technically, Nabokov is unlikely to be surpassed.
    And yes, the creativity of one of them would be quite enough for the literature of a small European country. Yes, and Pasternak would have been enough.
    1. +4
      8 September 2021 17: 46
      N. Ostrovsky is also a classic.
      "The most precious thing for a person is life. It is given to him once, and he must live it so that it does not hurt excruciatingly for the years spent aimlessly, so that he does not burn shame for a petty and petty past, so that, dying, he can say: all life and all forces were devoted to the most beautiful in the world - the struggle for the liberation of mankind. And we must hurry to live. After all, an absurd illness or some tragic accident can interrupt it. "
      "As the Steel Was Tempered"
      Now it is not popular, the current government is not needed, people can think about who to free them from? We're kind of free anyway.
      1. +4
        8 September 2021 18: 37
        If we take Soviet writers, then in terms of prose, Sholokhov is perhaps beyond competition. This is just such a classic literature. Talent. Also Simonov, but he is rather an excellent journalist.
      2. +2
        8 September 2021 19: 05
        Quote: Pessimist22
        Now it is not popular, the current government is not needed, people can think about who to free them from?

        And we won't see or hear such words anywhere.
        I would be a wolf
        gnawed
        bureaucracy.
        To mandates
        no respect.
    2. +2
      8 September 2021 19: 02
      Quote: Ryazanets87
      A highly controversial statement, given Bunin and Nabokov.

      I respect Bunin, I deny Nabokov.
      1. +1
        8 September 2021 19: 15
        Humanly, Nabokov is unpleasant to me. But, nevertheless, I repeat, in his works he gives the standard of the Russian literary language. Technical peak. Although he wrote excellently in English.
    3. 0
      9 September 2021 08: 41
      Hu from Mister Nabokou? What did he write?
  7. +14
    8 September 2021 15: 24
    "And who is there left with us" on the steamer of our time "?"

    Yes, except for those listed, no one remains. Those who are now in the ratings of sales and downloads not only on the upper deck, but also have nothing to do with the stoker. Including Solzhenitsyn.
    And in the classics, I would add Nosov with his Dunno, Tolstoy with the Golden Key, and Volkov with the Emerald City. In my humble opinion, great works feel
    1. +3
      8 September 2021 16: 15
      Quote: Van 16


      And in the classics, I would add Nosov with his Dunno, Tolstoy with the Golden Key, and Volkov with the Emerald City. In my humble opinion, great works feel


      Good books.
      He himself grew up on them.
      However, having matured a bit, I discovered that all three of these authors were engaged in nothing more than borrowing.
      Nosov wrote his Dunno under the impression of the fairy tale by Anna Khvolson, "The Kingdom of Babies" (1889), which he read in childhood, which, in turn, was based on the comics of the poet Palmer Cox (after the Revolution, Khvolson's books were not reprinted). The name of the protagonist was also taken from the Khvolson fairy tale (at the same time, Khvolson Dunno is a secondary character, and the one whom Khvolson called Murzilka is much more similar to the current Dunno).


      The creation of the story "The Golden Key" began with the fact that in 1923 Alexei Tolstoy, while in exile, edited the Russian translation of the fairy tale by the Italian writer Carlo Collodi "The Adventures of Pinocchio. The History of a Wooden Doll "(1883) by Nina Petrovskaya. A year later, this book was published in Berlin, by the Nakanune publishing house (when Tolstoy had already returned to the USSR).
      It stands out for a number of adaptations of Italian realities to Russian ones, stylistic alterations (Russian proverbs, sayings, etc.) and other differences from the original, which later became the Golden Key.


      The Wizard of the Emerald City is nothing more than a children's book by American writer Lyman Frank Baum, published in 1900, which Alexander Volkov published under his own name in 1939. Further, I reworked it many times and supplemented it until 1976. hi
      1. +9
        8 September 2021 16: 36
        "engaged in nothing more than borrowing"

        About Nosov a little far-fetched, so you can bring any fairy tales about gnomes and other leprechauns. But what Tolstoy and Volkov wrote, let's say "based on", yes. But you must admit that the books are very different from the fundamental principle. I tried to read both Pinocchio and Baum, in my, again humble opinion, our books are simply better. hi
        1. +2
          8 September 2021 17: 09
          Quote: Van 16
          our books are just better.

          They received a quality basis, processed and rethought by serious craftsmen. It would be a sin to mess up.
          This is not modern fanfiction.
          On the other hand, you must admit that this is no longer quite "Russian classical literature".
          1. +4
            8 September 2021 17: 24
            I agree. I would call it "Soviet children's literature." And the emphasis, all the same, on the word "literature".
        2. 0
          9 September 2021 08: 49
          Because "Penyokkio" is a pretty standard teaching from the 19th century. This straightforward style is now being ridiculed.
      2. +1
        8 September 2021 18: 20
        The Wizard of the Emerald City is nothing more than a children's book by American writer Lyman Frank Baum, published in 1900, which Alexander Volkov published under his own name in 1939.


        You, I'm embarrassed to ask, have BOTH read them?
        There is a very free retelling. And to take the same characters and start poisoning stories is not plagiarism even once.
        1. 0
          8 September 2021 19: 34
          Quote: Olezhek
          You, I'm embarrassed to ask, have BOTH read them?
          There is a very free retelling. And to take the same characters and start poisoning stories is not plagiarism even once.

          I read, what is there to be ashamed of, but not in childhood, but when I was already raising my youngest daughter. In the year 94-95. The retelling is quite free, but the plot is very close.
          You said the word "plagiarism". By the way, in vain. From the very first edition of The Wizard, the title page indicated that the book was a reworking of Baum's tale.
          Well, the rest of Volkov's stories from this series were already his works only using that fairy-tale world and some of the heroes.
          1. 0
            8 September 2021 19: 52
            You said the word "plagiarism". By the way, in vain. From the very first edition of The Wizard, the title page indicated that the book was a reworking of Baum's tale.
            Well, the rest of Volkov's stories


            And then Ostap suffered ...
            Speaking in modern Kion language, Volkov scolded "his universe."
            It has very little to do with the source.
            1. -1
              8 September 2021 20: 03
              Quote: Olezhek
              And then Ostap suffered ...
              Speaking in modern Kion language, Volkov scolded "his universe."
              It has very little to do with the source.

              Well, what about me?
              By the way, Volkov had many more good books. I read only two - about primitive seafarers and how to fish with a line. His brother also wrote on fishing topics.
        2. -1
          9 September 2021 08: 50
          And to take the same characters and start poisoning stories is not plagiarism even once.


          It's actually going to be fanfiction. NS)
      3. +1
        9 September 2021 08: 48
        For those who do not see the obvious, but are looking for some kind of garbage in the reference books, I clarify:
        "The Adventures of Dunno and His Friends" is about Soviet schoolchildren.
        "Dunno in the Solar City" is a communist utopia on the scientific basis of endless production capacities.
        "Dunno on the Moon", well, even comments are not needed here, although the concept of the material base is clearly formulated here.

        There are a lot of books about little people.

        Well, you simply did not read "The Wizard from the Land of OZ", Volkov did his own there so much for reasons that it is no closer to Baum than 2 works of cosmological fiction are to each other. In both, after all, about interstellar flights.
        1. +1
          9 September 2021 16: 52
          Quote: EvilLion


          Well, you simply did not read "The Wizard from the Land of OZ", Volkov did his own there so much for reasons that it is no closer to Baum than 2 works of cosmological fiction are to each other. In both, after all, about interstellar flights.

          Well, let's not oversimplify. It's just that Baum is less childish.
    2. +3
      8 September 2021 16: 28
      Quote: Van 16
      In my humble opinion, great works

      And not only yours. Many authors wrote not only for children, implying that adults would read books to them.
      hi
    3. AUL
      0
      8 September 2021 17: 18
      Quote: Van 16
      And in the classics, I would add Nosov with his Dunno, Tolstoy with the Golden Key, and Volkov with the Emerald City ...
      ... Strugatsky, Ilf and Petrov ...
      By the way, Tolstoy and Volkov are plagiarists. Damn talented, but still plagiarists!
      1. -3
        8 September 2021 18: 14
        Tolstoy with the Golden Key, and Volkov with the Emerald City ...

        Tolstoy and Volkov are plagiarists


        And you obviously don't like to read ... alas.
        Pinocchio has absolutely nothing to do with the Golden Key.
        General.
        just read finally.

        The Emerald City is also practically irrelevant to the Wizard of the OZ country.

        Read finally Pinocchio and the Wizard of OZ
        You will be very surprised.

        But the Emerald City and Volkov and Tolstoy's Golden Key are not a fig not a classic.
        alas.
        1. AUL
          +1
          8 September 2021 20: 29
          Quote: Olezhek
          And you obviously don't like to read ... alas.

          Brave claim! The only pity is unreasonable. The reference to Pinocchio was given by Tolstoy himself (although he forgot the name). Well, that's if you've read it. tongue And the first part of the Wizard of the Emerald City and the Wizard of Oz is generally 1: 1!
          Oza, Rose whether, bitch -
          how funny the metamarphoses are!
          Into the box, sooner or later ...
          Life has passed - and what for?
        2. -1
          9 September 2021 08: 52
          Why aren't they classics? Because for the kids? But then Gogol, with his funny stories, is not a classic. Well, "Taras Bulba" is generally some kind of trash about a psychopath.
      2. -1
        9 September 2021 14: 45
        Quote from AUL
        By the way, Tolstoy and Volkov are plagiarists.

        I would replace Tolstov with Marshak. For Aelita, Hyperboloid and Walking through torments are authentic things. hi
  8. +3
    8 September 2021 15: 24
    Everything has its time ... but for CLASSICS, there should always be time!
    Life, indeed, is fleeting and on one Tik Tok one cannot go far. Oh yes, VICI, a poor substitute for knowledge, fiction, not a substitute for CLASSICS.
    Alas, it is difficult to explain this to the younger generation; convincing "arguments" have to be exploited.
  9. -3
    8 September 2021 15: 27
    There is our contemporary Stephen Fry, for all the complexity of his personal life, he is one of the most famous Englishmen in the world today. So, he put Greek myths and "Troy", three volumes published by us, into a modern way, is read in one breath. An excellent example regarding Fonvizin, Tredyakovsky or Zhukovsky with Lomonosov ??? But explain to me why a modern schoolboy should read Dostoevsky or Dobrolyubov, and even more so this ka Solzhenitsyn?
    1. +4
      8 September 2021 16: 24
      Why read at all, or even more so someone to read? You can just put letters into words, and words into sentences and have fun, by the way, an exciting game! laughing
    2. -1
      9 September 2021 14: 49
      Quote: Petrik66
      to read Dostoevsky or Dobrolyubov, and even more so this ka Solzhenitsyn?

      Have you put Dostoevsky and Solzhenitsy on a par? belay
      1. 0
        10 September 2021 09: 11
        No, it was Chernyshevsky's computer that he converted into Dostoevsky.
        1. 0
          10 September 2021 10: 51
          Tady agrees. hi
  10. +8
    8 September 2021 15: 30
    "And the problem with "Russian classical literature" is precisely this: it is not very classical in terms of the time of its creation and it is not so much that much has been written."- I am 100000000% sure, you are not a school teacher of literature. And you see the problem exclusively from the point of view of linguistics and philology. Well, or from the point of view of world literary history (I remember I had such a subject; read it to us, by the way, German).
    In my opinion, the problem is in the teachers who, well, not a fig themselves really and for the soul did not read these classics. And therefore, they walked exactly in the wake of the school / university curriculum, teaching mortal anguish from the same Dostoevsky (Crime and the Guillotine) or Tolstoy (War and Grace). And "Dead Spirits" are presented to schoolchildren in such a way that it is better to delete this story from the school curriculum.
    And by the way, your reasoning and comparisons of the writers of world literature in Russia and Europe - just do not be offended, pzhlsta - at the level of "I was asked to write an article and talked about bablos and ya wrote ...". And you wrote ... I understood this when I saw "Gaidar". You didn't even bother to find and write his middle name. Arkady Petrovich he ...
    If you start reading Dostoevsky with "Crime ...", Tolstoy - with "War ...", then they will automatically be outdated before ... mi. And rightly so, by the way.
    If you are talking about the obsolescence of the classics of the 19th century from an academic point of view, then you should be aware of the practical component. And it lies in the fact that the style (not individual words) of that era is not very suitable and comfortable in terms of reading and understanding in the 20s of 2021 for a WIDE mass of readers (who are not philologists, linguists or humanities in general). And this is legal. Fine. Organic. But to make it the other way around, you have to start from the stove, that is, from school. That is, from the professional presentation, but not the formal teaching of these authors. And completely on other works of theirs ...
    1. 0
      8 September 2021 16: 35
      If you start reading Dostoevsky with "Crime ...",

      It is from him that one must read how Raskolnikov had to remove an innocent witness to the murder of a vile old woman.
      1. 0
        9 September 2021 14: 54
        Quote: Aviator_
        It is from him that you need to read,

        Who needs? Crime and punishment for adult minds, teenagers are better off easier. Although under the current education system, children mature with their minds much later than with their bodies. And their thinking is in the best traditions of Fursenko.
    2. -3
      8 September 2021 18: 35
      And it lies in the fact that the style (not individual words) of that era is not very suitable and comfortable in terms of reading and understanding in the 20s of 2021 for a WIDE mass of readers (who are not philologists, linguists or humanities in general). And this is legal. Fine


      You are looking at the root.
      But this is what it means to be an educated person - to be able to read the literature of another era.
      The problems of the broad masses of iPhone owners and smartphone users do not bother the author. hi
      1. +1
        9 September 2021 08: 53
        Pushkin is 200 years old, and it's easier to read than some who wrote yesterday. Maybe the reader is not the problem?
      2. 0
        9 September 2021 19: 20
        Quote: Olezhek
        You are looking at the root.
        But this is what it means to be an educated person - to be able to read the literature of another era.
        The problems of the broad masses of iPhone owners and smartphone users do not bother the author.

        You know, there were enough "iPhone owners and smartphone users" at any time, it was just in a different form. As in that joke ... I want to interview you! Yes?! Is it called that now ?! Well, let's go, beauty! laughing
  11. +4
    8 September 2021 15: 36
    the school curriculum is overloaded with Russian literature of the XNUMXth century, which at the moment is slightly outdated and not modern

    Here it is probably worth dividing the general obsolescence issue into two sub-issues.
    1) Is Russian classical literature of the 19th - early 20th centuries "as such" outdated? The answer is, of course, no. Literature is generally difficult in this sense to "become obsolete". After all, despite the past centuries, Homer's "Odyssey" or Dante Alighieri's "Divine Comedy" are not outdated.
    2) The question of the selection of works for the school curriculum in literature is qualitatively different. There, the question should rather be, but what is the purpose of this program as such? What exactly should she teach schoolchildren?
  12. +5
    8 September 2021 15: 40
    Russian classical literature helps us preserve our native language. You cannot read such literature with speed reading. You can read it, and each time find something new. "Previously, writers wrote eternal thoughts with goose feathers. Now with eternal feathers ...."
    1. 0
      9 September 2021 08: 55
      Goose thoughts of the era of goose feathers simply did not survive, and this is 99.99% of all literature of those years.
  13. +4
    8 September 2021 15: 43
    Quote: Ryazanets87
    We were not so lucky with prose. This is if we consider quality, not quantity.

    but the “great Russian literature”, as it were, in the 30s, ends altogether. Or rather, even already in the 20s.

    A highly controversial statement, given Bunin and Nabokov. They, in fact, are the pinnacle of Russian classical literature and the standard of the Russian literary language. Technically, Nabokov is unlikely to be surpassed.
    And yes, the creativity of one of them would be quite enough for the literature of a small European country. Yes, and Pasternak would have been enough.


    "They, in fact, are the pinnacle of Russian classical literature and the standard of the Russian literary language."
    Give, pzhlsta, at least 2-3 parameters by which you determine who is "top" and who is "not very".
    "Etalon" to what kind of makara were they brought out? what flair or formula?
    Just don’t send me, pzhlsta, to the library of the DO-obrazovyvats. I'm already old, I won't even get there with a stick.
    And do not blame, pzhlsta, my not far away illiteracy. I am a sinner, there is such a thing, I myself know and I am ashamed. But for people like me, you exist as races. Smart and categorical in their understanding of literature. Just enlighten me.
    ATP in advance!
  14. +7
    8 September 2021 15: 44
    It is not literature that is outdated, but the people are gradually sinking to the level of a monkey.
    1. +1
      8 September 2021 15: 59
      It is not outdated, it is written differently calmly and measuredly long. And we are already accustomed to living quickly and also read through the word, so it is difficult to perceive the classics. While you finish reading the sentence, you will forget what was in the beginning. And at that time there were quite a few monkeys among people.
      1. +1
        8 September 2021 16: 06
        Seriously, before, almost all nobles could speak a couple of languages, mind you, not top managers of energy companies. And the childbirth, of course, was, as without them.
        1. +4
          8 September 2021 16: 12
          But they lived easier, the information flow that was assimilated per day was an order of magnitude less than now. You did not notice that if you do not receive information, any TV, PC, Internet, radio, etc. become uncomfortable.
          1. +3
            8 September 2021 16: 18
            In a way, you are right, there is nothing to argue about, just what we do with this information, but practically nothing, we take note of it and nothing more. When was the last time you read a clever book? And in a foreign language? request
            1. +3
              8 September 2021 16: 29
              There is no time to sit by the fireplace for an hour or two and read thoughtfully, think about a conversation. Information is now like a drug for us, even if we don't need it at all.
          2. 0
            8 September 2021 18: 37
            Quote: ALARI
            But they lived easier, the information flow that was assimilated per day was an order of magnitude less than now.

            Come on, the information flow was not less. He was just different - that's all. It is now superficial, lightweight, and unnecessary in nature. His survival depended on whether the peasant correctly digested information in the 18th century. The modern ignoramus does not assimilate "information streams", but lets them pass through himself without delay - and nothing, survives.
            1. +2
              9 September 2021 08: 08
              And who says that we assimilate all the information? You are right, we only pass it through ourselves, but the brain works many times more intensively and this imposes the specifics of perception. And what the peasant digested like a cow to milk the land to plow, so it was hammered into his subcortex from childhood, he did everything on the machine. What he could have learned at the time that his parents did not know is practically nothing.
        2. +2
          8 September 2021 16: 26
          This is how today's "nobles" also explain themselves. I'm talking about the beau monde. They put themselves at least on the level of Louis. lol
          1. +3
            8 September 2021 16: 34
            Exactly, but expressed like cabbies in the 19th century. lol
            1. 0
              8 September 2021 23: 52
              Quote: Ros 56
              Exactly, but expressed like cabbies in the 19th century.

              Aliena nobis, nostra aliis?

              Here Homo Sapiens is needed!
        3. +2
          8 September 2021 16: 32
          Seriously, before, almost all nobles could speak a couple of languages,

          This was written about them by M.Yu. Lermontov "A mixture of French with Nizhny Novgorod", and in Pyatigorsk at that time the entire elite gathered on the waters. Mikhail Yurievich wrote from nature.
          1. +3
            8 September 2021 16: 39
            But the current ones speak in a mixture of obscene and boorish. Once rode on a tram, I allow myself sometimes ( laughing ), there are two girls, my ears almost curled up into a tube, but I restrained myself. About times, about morals. wassat
      2. AUL
        +6
        8 September 2021 17: 38
        Quote: ALARI
        And we are already accustomed to living quickly and also read through the word, therefore it is difficult to perceive the classics. While you finish reading the sentence, you will forget what happened in the beginning

        I remember that in the eighth grade we were forced to memorize a half-page passage from War and Peace about an oak tree that died in the fall and turned green again in the spring. How I hated this oak! And in my dreams I saw that a teacher of literature was hung on the branches of that oak! (Although she has something to do with it - she has an approved program!)
      3. -3
        8 September 2021 18: 16
        It is not out of date, written differently calmly and measuredly long. And we are already accustomed to living quickly and also read through the word, therefore it is difficult to perceive the classics. While you finish reading the sentence, you will forget what was in the beginning.

        So "clip" thinking))) Imposed by TV)))
        1. +1
          9 September 2021 19: 27
          Quote: lucul
          So "clip" thinking))) Imposed by TV)))

          Nobody watches TV anymore, sir! laughing
  15. +1
    8 September 2021 15: 46
    Quote: Nasr
    Respect to the author! As it seems to me (based on the article), we are on the same wavelength.

    Yes. on the AMATEUR wave ... Like, on the retro-fm wave.
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. -1
    8 September 2021 15: 49
    Quote: Kitty Moore
    Understood nothing. How can literature be out of date?
    Is the Iliad out of date? Don Quixote? Notes on the Gallic War?

    The language may become outdated, but that's okay, that's what "translation adaptation" is for.

    The article is interesting, but I would like to deepen it. I look forward to continuing.
    The author began for his health, and ended with a listing of works ...


    mmmm ...
    either - translate, or - adapt. For "adaptations" we were not sculpted immediately.
  18. +5
    8 September 2021 15: 54
    "Dostoevsky is dead," said the citizen, but somehow not very confidently.
    - Objection, - Behemoth exclaimed hotly. - Dostoevsky is immortal! "(C)
  19. +1
    8 September 2021 16: 01
    Quote: nikvic46
    Russian classical literature helps us preserve our native language. You cannot read such literature with speed reading. You can read it, and each time find something new. "Previously, writers wrote eternal thoughts with goose feathers. Now with eternal feathers ...."


    I would add: any native QUALITATIVE literature helps to preserve the native language.
    1. 0
      8 September 2021 18: 21
      I would add: any native QUALITATIVE literature helps to preserve the native language.

      Especially if it is written in your native language, without a bunch of foreign Englishisms (foreign language) that need to be translated in your mind for understanding.
      For example, the Russian word - abyss, is clear in form and content and is instantly absorbed by the brain. And if instead of the word abyss we borrowed the English analogue - Abyss, we would first have to translate in the mind, and then only assimilate with the brain. This unnecessary action greatly inhibits understanding.
  20. +1
    8 September 2021 16: 12
    It's time to deal with "classical literature" and "cool" ... I don't think anyone can explain more intelligibly the complexity of Russian:

    and French:

    Primitivism is not characteristic of classical Russian literature.
    hi
  21. +1
    8 September 2021 16: 16
    And the fact that it arose quite late. By historical standards, by European standards.
    Yes, it arose at the time. Only to the descendants, almost nothing reached. And then, it stalled in its development, there were objective reasons for that. And most importantly, the issue is purely commercial, for a long time there was no demand for their secular literature, but what was considered popular, of a low grade. It was not a noble business to read homespun works. And its "kondovoe" is just Fonvizin. Here's another Radishchev, but both works were banned. And the secular audience loved light, entertaining, foreign, pop in one word, and even in a foreign one.
  22. -2
    8 September 2021 16: 21
    How strange that the author chose to remain silent about American literature. It arose even later than ours, and it has been written several times less ... But it prefers not to talk about its obsolescence.
    1. -2
      8 September 2021 17: 14
      Quote: Basarev
      But he prefers not to talk about its obsolescence.

      it is understandable, to bite an elephant is both honorable and safe.
    2. -4
      8 September 2021 18: 32
      How strange that the author chose to remain silent about American literature. It arose even later than ours, and it is written several times less


      There is generally a pipe with great literature.
      1. 0
        9 September 2021 08: 56
        The Americans will argue.
        1. -4
          9 September 2021 09: 41
          The Americans will argue.


          Not all. Some are in the know. Some people confuse British writers with their own.
          Everything is more complicated.
  23. +3
    8 September 2021 16: 25
    There was an opinion that the school curriculum is overloaded with Russian literature

    for that there was found for Solzhenitsyn
    1. -1
      8 September 2021 17: 07
      Eh, there is no section "Anti-Soviet Literature" ...
  24. -1
    8 September 2021 16: 27
    Quote: Ros 56
    Seriously, before, almost all nobles could speak a couple of languages, mind you, not top managers of energy companies. And the childbirth, of course, was, as without them.


    There are more foreign language courses than public toilets. Pay and master. Hosh - French. Hosh is Zimbabwean. If not for a crust, but for knowledge, then in 1 year you will be able to read Erich Remarque, as well as his sister Maria in the original. And you can also express yourself
  25. +3
    8 September 2021 16: 29
    when Mr. Mayakovsky proposed to "throw off the ship of modernity" some Russian classics.

    This was proclaimed by "comrade" Viktor Shklovsky, who lived in comfort almost to the age of 100 and wrote lengthy articles about the work of L.N. Tolstoy.
    1. +4
      8 September 2021 17: 05
      This was proclaimed by "comrade" Viktor Shklovsky

      This was proclaimed by the futurists in their collection "A Slap in the Face to Public Taste". which came out in 1912 and was accompanied by the "manifesto" of the same name.
      1. +3
        8 September 2021 18: 03
        Thank you for the original source. The reformers survived like flies on glass until the mid-20s.
      2. +2
        8 September 2021 20: 44
        It's ugly. But at the same time, alas, it is often talented. Both futurists and imagists.
  26. 0
    8 September 2021 16: 48
    Quote: Aviator_
    If you start reading Dostoevsky with "Crime ...",

    It is from him that one must read how Raskolnikov had to remove an innocent witness to the murder of a vile old woman.


    and very harmful!
  27. +1
    8 September 2021 16: 54
    Quote: Ros 56
    But the current ones speak in a mixture of obscene and boorish. Once rode on a tram, I allow myself sometimes ( laughing ), there are two girls, my ears almost curled up into a tube, but I restrained myself. About times, about morals. wassat


    eight-))))
    As compensation and for reflection: let there be ... more!
    Think about it: you come, literate, but already critically over 40, and little-spirited and impudent girls, boorish dropouts, get a job. The employer is horrible and will take ... you!
    To be honest, I would not have taught goofs at all. They are needed! What for? See above...
    For homo homini lupus est
    eight-))))
    1. +1
      8 September 2021 17: 20
      In those places where "boorish-dropouts" and those who are "critically over forty" can come at the same time, very often there is someone in the bosses who will be satisfied with the first.
    2. +1
      8 September 2021 18: 15
      The employer will take the one who will bring profit.
      1. -3
        8 September 2021 18: 53
        The employer will hire someone who


        will look more faithfully in the eyes ...
        1. 0
          8 September 2021 19: 44
          or who has a shorter skirt.
          but not according to the criteria described in the post above
  28. +1
    8 September 2021 16: 55
    Russian classics do not become obsolete, it is another matter that the reformers of the Soviet school "cram the unpalatable" type of politicized texts with zero (in my opinion) artistic value - "doctor zhivago" and so on.
  29. VLR
    +1
    8 September 2021 17: 02
    I also discovered America: Russian classical literature was created 2-3 centuries later than European. How could it be otherwise if the Russian ethnos is younger than the Western European one? Here, if anything is surprising, it is how quickly the Russians, barely realizing themselves as a nation, began to catch up with the old European peoples. Which until the XNUMXth century practically did not pay any attention to the barbarian northeast. And then, suddenly, with amazement, we saw a rapidly developing young and full of strength superethnos, who entered into a successful confrontation with them in all positions - from the military sphere to the cultural and intellectual.
    1. -3
      8 September 2021 18: 17
      I also discovered America: Russian classical literature was created 2-3 centuries later than European. How can life


      Based on this, the author asks a completely logical question: how could the classics created in the industrial era become obsolete?
    2. -2
      8 September 2021 18: 18
      Quote: VlR
      a rapidly developing young and full of vigor superethnos,

      You to Samsonov ...
  30. 0
    8 September 2021 17: 30
    Quote: tihonmarine
    Quote: sergo1914
    I make oblique students read Chekhov. It helps.

    I made my sailors read aloud, I thought tongue-tied would go away. But it was not the same contingent, they still didn’t stop swearing.

    Swearing is something else.
  31. +2
    8 September 2021 17: 47
    Literature, cannot be outdated, it is taught incorrectly
  32. +1
    8 September 2021 17: 48
    The problem is not in classical literature, but in the fact that modern classics are not defined. And the point here, in my opinion, is that contemporary Russian literature, if I may say so, is "specialized". There are "classics" that few people read, and few people can master. There is "popular" literature - all sorts of action films, detective stories, science fiction, fantasy. And here's the problem. All this "popliterature" by literary scholars en masse is declared frivolous, and is not regarded as a modern classic. Yes, 90% is really graphomania and just entertaining reading. Another 7-8 percent are quite solid things, at the level of generally accepted classics, often revealing serious problems, with a magnificent language, well-developed vivid characters and characters, an original plot, and the remaining 2-3 percent are really masterpieces, to which many of those, who we call the classics to grow and grow. The fact is that really talented writers do not go to "classical" literature now - it is not popular, there are few readers, it does not bring profit, you can publish only on your own or on the Internet, and then without a chance for any serious donation - that's what they write in those genres that are popular. Hence the problems with the quality of many good works, talented writers. Now the writer will not "lick" the text for years and devote himself entirely to serving the muse - he either needs to work in addition to literature (there are no serfs in service and estates), or to drive books on stream, in a hurry to submit the text to the publisher as soon as possible, having received money, or put it out " prod "to be trendy and, again, get paid. Because of this, proofreading is lame, errors and misprints come across, including those considered by literary critics to be a sign of "low-quality" literature. There are many other problems in modern literature, such as: the lack of editing as a class, the dependence of online publishing on the opinion of readers and popular trends, etc. but in general, I do not agree with the fact that there is no modern literature or it is bad - it is different, and it is necessary to find it, not in the sense of looking for a book, as in the case of scarcity, but to re-read a hundred books in order to find one worthwhile.
    1. -3
      8 September 2021 18: 25
      Hence the problems with the quality of many good works, talented writers. The writer now will not "lick" the text for years and devote himself entirely to serving the muse - he either needs to work in addition to literature (there are no serfs in service and estates),


      Well, yes, yes, Cervantes was as rich as Croesus ...

      There are many other problems in modern literature.


      Just compare what percentage of the population in the early 19th century in Russia could write and publish a book. And what percentage can it do today.

      But
  33. +3
    8 September 2021 18: 26
    Russian classics are not for average minds! I would say - this is not for children ... but after all, in Soviet times, and in the 90s they squeezed schoolchildren (now I really don't know) ...
    Well, please tell me what children can understand by reading "crime and punishment" ??? Yes, 95% (if not more) did not even try to start, and the rest read "nodding", selective places - well, for example, where the schismatics brought down the old woman, and that's it!
    this is reading for adults, for those who already know why the pound is dashing - these are ADULTS and people who already have life experience and will appreciate, and most importantly, they will understand what Fedor Mikhailovich wanted to say ...
    all the same, a former convict and a man sentenced to death and standing at the post with a sack on his head, awaiting death ...
    and now they are trying to squeeze the deep life philosophy of this brilliant writer and not an ordinary person into the fragile child's brain ... fullness! this did not work even in Soviet times, but now it's even funny to say
    1. 0
      9 September 2021 06: 36
      And if the classics are not compulsorily read during school hours, as it was in the USSR, then in adulthood a person simply will not know that such writers and works existed at all. We see it perfectly now.

      Nobody claims that children in the USSR were senselessly forced to experience something from classical literature, which they could not by their age.

      They were forced to remember, at least just to remember that Dostoevsky or Leo Tolstoy deserve attention and wrote nothing significant on such and such topics. And no one forbade them to read how to understand and feel them in adulthood.

      How is it in Gogol's story "Viy '"? : "Education instilled in them something in common."

      The society is formed more cohesive and mutual understanding is facilitated if the same books were read at school. They are still read by the same people, but the choice and level of books is different, it is formed by the market, and not by the tasks of the State.
  34. +1
    8 September 2021 18: 33
    Another time, a different lifestyle - it is not surprising that children are not interested in reading.
    19th century literature is written for other people. The master was sitting on the estate, where the nearest possible interlocutor was twenty kilometers away, and he learned the news once a week, when one of the neighbors dropped in, so he was not overloaded with information.
    And he read slowly and thoughtfully, making notes in pencil in the margins.
    And read the book for weeks.
    Will a modern schoolboy read a book thoughtfully for weeks without haste?
    He does not experience an information hunger, as in the 19th century, he receives more information before breakfast than a rural landowner of the 19th century does in a week.
    And he simply cannot look at literature, like that of the master of the 19th century.
    Therefore, for schoolchildren, it is necessary to very carefully select literature for study, the level of depth of study, methodology, otherwise the children will not be interested in reading and discourage the future.
    1. -1
      8 September 2021 20: 14
      classical lyre, because it is classical because it
      19th century literature is written for other people.
      written for all thinking people, the only one with the ability to transform a monkey into a Human! or, more simply, from a log - in Pinocchio! but not always
  35. -4
    8 September 2021 18: 50
    Classics cannot be outdated ... am

    1. -1
      9 September 2021 00: 30
      Quote: Olezhek
      Classics cannot be outdated ...

      Class! I'll take it to my playlist (Kak eto po-russki?).
  36. 0
    8 September 2021 18: 55
    Quote: Olezhek
    And it lies in the fact that the style (not individual words) of that era is not very suitable and comfortable in terms of reading and understanding in the 20s of 2021 for a WIDE mass of readers (who are not philologists, linguists or humanities in general). And this is legal. Fine


    You are looking at the root.
    But this is what it means to be an educated person - to be able to read the literature of another era.
    The problems of the broad masses of iPhone owners and smartphone users do not bother the author. hi


    Yeah, I guess.
    Toka himself is the same, "like all the people, from the same gates."
    I had to read the literature of another era a lot and often due to circumstances. Including, in adversary, in the first place. They forced me to do it ...
    And almost always caught and still catch myself thinking: "Iyo mayo, what a blizzard I had to shovel." Vdovolstvvv - 0. That's all: "put a tick - read the classics." Some budenbroks or the Castle are worth something! Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
    I don't know why this happens, but the classics of literature for some reason in 9 out of 10 cases do not assimilate with an approximate positive by ordinary people, including those who are very, very educated.
    Well, no need to tell, sho crime and punishment bring pleasure. I do not believe!
    1. -3
      8 September 2021 19: 00
      And almost always caught and still catch myself thinking: "Iyo mayo, what a blizzard I had to shovel." Vdovolstvvv - 0. That's all: "put a tick - read the classics." Some budenbrokes


      And there is a lot that is written
      For all tastes
      Starting with the Roman classics
      The main thing is to choose

      If you don't like anything at all - then sorry.
    2. 0
      8 September 2021 19: 15
      Well, no need to tell, sho crime and punishment bring pleasure. I do not believe!

      this is not for average minds, my friend ... do not bother and do not force your brain
  37. 0
    8 September 2021 19: 09
    Russian classical literature in the 19th century has gone from Pushkin;
    "Graze, peaceful peoples!
    You will not be awakened by the call.
    Why herds of gifts of freedom?
    They must be cut or trimmed. "
    before the story "Zagon" - Leskov or "In the ravine", "For service" - Chekhov, which gives a brief description of the "contradictions of Russian life"; "Russia, homeland is Moscow and St. Petersburg ... the rest is a colony." The classic period at the beginning of the 20th century ends with an eerie article by the last classic - Gorky; "On the Russian Peasantry" (1922).
    In between, Nekrasov and Dostoevsky glorified the hard lot and spiritual greatness of the Russian man.
    As you can see, the development of Russian classics proceeded in a spiral; from "Graze ...." - Pushkin, to
    "...... in Russian cruelty one can feel devilish sophistication, there is something subtle, refined in it ..." - in Gorky. The classics of the West are completely different ... there is no such apocalyptic hopelessness in it.
    1. +1
      8 September 2021 19: 20
      The classics of the West are completely different ... there is no such apocalyptic hopelessness in it.

      Yes, you read Emil Zola! "ruhon-makkara" for example ... hopelessness as it is ...
      or Dickens' about London slums ...
      or "American tragedy" - this is true from the 20th century, but also a classic ...
  38. 0
    8 September 2021 19: 17
    Quote: Bad Pig (Ham)
    Well, no need to tell, sho crime and punishment bring pleasure. I do not believe!

    this is not for average minds, my friend ... do not bother and do not force your brain


    I agree with you! THX! I won't! Persuaded! Dispelled doubts!
  39. +1
    8 September 2021 19: 28
    Quote: Olezhek
    And almost always caught and still catch myself thinking: "Iyo mayo, what a blizzard I had to shovel." Vdovolstvvv - 0. That's all: "put a tick - read the classics." Some budenbrokes


    And there is a lot that is written
    For all tastes
    Starting with the Roman classics
    The main thing is to choose

    If you don't like anything at all - then sorry.


    Unfortunately, I was not given a choice.
    The task was set: to read in a week and be able to retell, write an essay, answer questions on at least one classical work of at least 200 pages. And so throughout the second course, if memory serves. Or third?
    Well, everything is adversarial, of course. And Russian literature was forced to read. Where can we go without entavo?
    An amateur's pleasure. Who finished our course, they will immediately understand what I am writing about. They won't let you lie.
    Key Thought: Not everyone likes these Klaxics. Why?
    And it would be a violation of courtesy behavior to assert that all non-lovers of the classics are illiterate dropouts.
  40. +1
    8 September 2021 19: 29
    I would say that the point is not obsolescence, but the fact that many works are simply incomprehensible to the student. For example, "The Captain's Daughter" with her rather simple and understandable plot, as well as a certain share of adventures, can be understandable to a schoolchild, but "Lord Golovlevs" did not cause anything but boredom.
  41. +2
    8 September 2021 19: 31
    Bravo, Yegor!
  42. -3
    8 September 2021 20: 00
    all Russian literature is based on the Orthodox faith, but it does not fit, there is a lot of socialism! and where did you see the Russians? who is this, give pzh-hundred a definition
    1. 0
      8 September 2021 21: 57
      Russian is a person who thinks in Russian language.
      It is not enough to read it without translation, you need to live in this language.
      This definition, in fact, refers to any people and language,
      I didn’t come up with it.
      Try to think in German, for example.
      Or in Chinese.
      You will have a lot of things to turn in perception and thinking.
      Personally, I've tried it in German.
      1. 0
        8 September 2021 22: 37
        here, and I'm talking about the same thing, I want to be Chinese (sort of promising, they say they get a lot right now,) I constantly think on it, and surely, a lot has turned around! sad but who would believe me that I am a Chinese, I would like to confirm this where, there is no fifth column now, and what I think does not bother anyone
      2. +1
        9 September 2021 15: 38
        if no fools, then Russian, this is not only a person who thinks in Russian, this is a person who has absorbed a cultural code, and this is literature and history and language, we are carefully changing history, emasculating classical Russian literature from circulation, replacing it with ersatz, do not leave in peace and language, so that nothing will come of the idea of ​​thinking in German or Chinese
        1. +1
          9 September 2021 16: 15
          Actually, I did not advocate thinking in other languages, but simply gave an example.
          And about thinking in Russian. This is primary, history and culture will simply be
          available in varying dosages. This is a quantitative indicator. You can thoroughly
          know the history and culture of the Russian people and a foreigner.
          But the primary is think in Russian. Our identity is based
          on the design features of our language.
          A simple example that will confuse any foreigner:
  43. 0
    8 September 2021 22: 48
    Read the article, comments ...
    Dear Author, besides Mikhail Bulgakov, we also have Andrey Platonov. But this Everest is too difficult to climb, not everyone is given.
    His allusions, references, indirectly expressed thoughts - they are about so important and quivering that against their background all the great Western classics look like lightweight tabloid literature. All this is both simple and complicated, so much so that not every Russian will understand Platonov's Russian cosmism, and even foreigners - even more so. Nevertheless, every translation of Platonov in the West becomes a sensation. There are true connoisseurs there, there are ...
    Why is this writer known in our country so little and even less understood? Because he was crushed much more than Bulgakov - he did not know how, did not want to adapt. But sooner or later Platonov will become the leader of the Russian classics. When the world, including us, finally grows up to it. Or rather, before understanding and accepting the Russian archetype.
    1. +1
      9 September 2021 00: 31
      And let's look at our literature from a practical point of view of usefulness, what it gives a person, but unfortunately it is easier to list what it does not give (but could give), that is, it does not teach, or does not set tasks,
      - briefly and popularly express thoughts
      - critically comprehend, understand and accept information
      - it is almost impossible for our classics to find a hero from whom we would like to take an example
      - and you should not take an example from the writers and poets themselves, for example, the same Pushkin, did not fight, did not create material values, did not pay taxes, but using his estate advantage (at the expense of serfs) led a very unattractive lifestyle and at the same time regularly arranged duel, I wonder how the attitude towards him would have changed if he had killed someone in a duel, and Tolstoy, using his estate advantage, led .. his crimes were so great ... but he was a count., a person inviolable, and them and many others , literature exalts, demands from us to them ourselves and to their works special respect, how can we not recall the Gospel of Luke -; ".. there is no bad tree that bears good fruit,"
    2. -4
      9 September 2021 07: 20
      Dear Author, besides Mikhail Bulgakov, we also have Andrey Platonov.


      There is

      1930 - "Pit"


      About what it was written - about the short time frame of the "classics"
      And whether Platonov is a classic is a separate question
      1. -1
        9 September 2021 09: 25
        Yes, there is a "Pit".
        And there is also the "Potudan River" - one of the recognized peaks of world novelism.
      2. 0
        9 September 2021 09: 31
        Quote: Olezhek
        And whether Platonov is a classic is a separate question

        There is a fragile chance to build a bridge between Platonov - Grossman - Solzhenitsin. And then the whole discussion about the "classics" of Russian literature will take on a different look ...
    3. 0
      9 September 2021 08: 23
      Anti-Sovietism is not a criterion for literature, nor is the fact that someone saw some hidden meaning in writing.
  44. 0
    9 September 2021 08: 14
    "The sun of Russian poetry" is not very popular abroad


    And what of his poems will remain in translations? Or do we really love foreign poets? I didn't notice something.

    if we talk about the creation of a "modern literary language", then in Germany this was also done by Martin Luther


    This somehow prevented Germany from being a bunch of small states with their own dialects before Bismarck? Note that the standard Russian language was instilled in everyone for 70 years of Soviet power, the Germans did not have enough centuries for this.

    Why, how and in what way it could become obsolete, taking into account its creation precisely in the industrial era, is quite difficult to understand.


    Are the realities about which Pushkin wrote in "Kapidochka" understandable or interesting to the modern reader? This "Quiet Don" by Sholokhov is not only actually about the grandfathers and great-grandfathers who were still found alive, but also his political discourse remains relevant. Our life is still determined by those events. And Pushkin will rather read "Eugene Onegin", which is still about much more understandable things, and fairy tales.

    And somehow no one in Spain considers the literature of that era to be outdated ...


    And what did the Spaniards write after Cervantes? Have you created anything cooler in half a thousand years? Isn't it stagnant? Well, this is just logical, ideally Spain has long been a complete periphery of Europe, a former great empire, the language of which is spoken by half of the world, but which this world has nothing more to give.

    Well, if you go up to the middle of the 20th century, then children's literature, like "Dunno" by Nosov, what's this? An ingenious work, or so, a childish letter, seriously unacceptable? Works of science fiction writers, is this also frivolous? A huge layer of literature about the war - what is this? In Soviet times, as many things were written as in the 19th century and never dreamed of, there was no possibility. But this is not taught at school. There is simply too much.
    1. -4
      9 September 2021 09: 36
      Have you created anything cooler in half a thousand years? Isn't it stagnant?


      No cooler, but literature is alive and developing.
      And Spanish literature is a little more than half a thousand years old.
      Alas. request
      1. 0
        9 September 2021 12: 23
        Well, that is, there is no big Spanish literature after Cervantes. It ended with the empire.
  45. +1
    9 September 2021 08: 51
    Why compare the informer Solzhenitsyn with Mikhail Sholokhov?
  46. 0
    9 September 2021 11: 31
    Quote: DKuznecov
    Russian is a person who thinks in Russian language.
    It is not enough to read it without translation, you need to live in this language.
    This definition, in fact, refers to any people and language,
    I didn’t come up with it.
    Try to think in German, for example.
    Or in Chinese.
    You will have a lot of things to turn in perception and thinking.
    Personally, I've tried it in German.


    "Personally, I tried in German"- and how, if not a secret?
    German in its structure, unlike the English and French language, which I know a little due to circumstances, is fundamentally different from Russian (just don’t mind, pzhlsta; my German is almost native). If you managed to translate the thought process into German at least to some extent - respect! Indicator of a fairly high level of proficiency in this language.
    I personally did not notice this. Well, if only occasionally a couple of curses flashes in my head, and thanks for that. eight-)))
    1. +2
      9 September 2021 16: 44
      How does it feel?

      You start to think over (build) the whole phrase as a whole,
      before expressing it. You don't translate from Russian, but from
      a set of bricks you build a "foundation", "walls", "roof",
      and at the end "little weather vane".
      Because it should be so. A sort of ordnung.
      The Russian language is contextual.
      You can play with the word order in the sentence and
      place accents / stresses in different ways.

      In German, order is sacred (well, practically),
      and the meaning of the presentation .. smoother, expected something.
      Each sentence is already a small story, with a prologue and an epilogue.

      The differences in the dialects of German are very strong.
      It should be taken into account when communicating with "locals".
      They may not understand, or you will not understand.
      Therefore, we have to switch to tourist English,
      young people speak it fluently. less discrepancies.

      In general, reading the same Remark in numerous translations
      (at first I read everything in Russian, several different translations)
      and in the original, you understand how the meaning is lost,
      despite the efforts of the translator.

      And so, German was not useful.
      Except for trips to Germany.

      Thank you.
  47. +2
    9 September 2021 16: 12
    Probably I will now express a not very popular point of view, but how counterproductive for me is to ask children to read classical works for the most part. For many reasons.
    1) These works were not written for children - they were written by intellectuals and erudites of the highest standard of their time for adults, for their contemporaries. It is naive to believe that most of the children will not even appreciate it - they will digest it all.
    2) Modern generations grow up LATER, it is not for nothing that people are now considered young people almost up to 35 years old. A modern schoolboy of 17 years old is not the same as a 17-year-old boy 100 years ago, and even more so in the 19th century. The real life experience accumulated during this time in the post-Soviet generation is incommensurable with the pre-Soviet or Soviet one. Children simply will not understand the full depth of the heroes' experiences, and leaving the essence of what is happening behind the board of perception - the work itself will seem to them dull nonsense.
    3) Formalization of the approach - a significant mass of classical. works were created not for the exam, but for thoughtful, calm and deep reading. Reading in a mandatory, afterburner mode runs counter to the aesthetics of the classics, forms negative triggers in its perception.
    4) Difference of generations and difference of problems. No matter what they say - the classics are not at all immortal. Works often do not lose their value - but they can easily lose the angle through which their relevance is perceived. Modern children will be wildly reading about reflections on revolution and socialism, because we live in an environment that is nightmarized by the revolution "in one neighboring country", because children know "how it all ended" with socialism. The main characters who sacrifice their lives or health in this field will be completely incomprehensible to them - they know how everything will end in the end. By analogy with this, we can say that the picture of the 19th century will be largely incomprehensible to modern children - how can a real picture of the life of serfs, for example, reach a person through the hellish mixture of liberalism and the romanticization of noble life? Will the child's mind be able to perceive the full depth of the game and tin, on which the country was built in the 19th and 18th centuries? No, if our task is to make him blindly memorize the psalms, then this is one thing. For the cultivation of a personality - the perception of these things in childhood will give nothing or almost nothing. The problems of the 19th century are long gone - there are no kings, no nobles, no slaves, no Napoleonic invasion - how can a generation of post-total wars perceive the attitude of the heroes of "War and Peace" to what is happening?

    In general, I think that these things are best read in universities or generally at will. The task of the state is to beautifully film this - and through this to instill in people a taste and interest in such things. And not to cram it into F with a tarpaulin boot for those who are not yet ripe for this, who are already overloaded with the school curriculum and the gigantic information flow of the modern world.
  48. +2
    9 September 2021 21: 36
    Weird. Why is it the Russian classics that are becoming obsolete. In my opinion, there is obsolescence of both German and French and English classics. simply, if the books are out of date, then maybe it was not a classic at all, but simply literature written long ago. On the other hand, I just can't imagine what to read to people 50+ if not the classics. King, Koontz and other thriller literature is good for young people. In adulthood, you want something else.
    And it always seemed to me that if fate had given Pushkin and Lermontov another 10 years of life, Russian literature would have received genius novelists.
    1. +1
      9 September 2021 22: 20
      Quote: read-city
      On the other hand, I just can't imagine what to read to people 50+ if not the classics.

      Happy you, if you can find time for fiction, unfortunately, I cannot always find time even for technical literature. without crosses "or" The blind man shoots without a miss. ")))
      Quote: read-city
      And it always seemed to me that the Soviet "War and Peace" was Ivanov's book "Eternal Call"

      Maybe so. Unfortunately, I have not read it. Although the film was recently reviewed with my wife, now they are no longer filmed. They abandoned all the cases, until they looked at them, they calmed down.))) The Strogoffs still want to see them, only there are a lot of cases, you won't quit.
  49. +1
    9 September 2021 22: 08
    Quote: depressant
    Because he was crushed much more than Bulgakov - he did not know how, did not want to adapt. But sooner or later Platonov will become the leader of the Russian classics. When the world, including us, finally grows up to it. Or rather, before understanding and accepting the Russian archetype.

    Was Platonov not adapting? I read his "Spiritualized".
    I quote: Comrades! Our reconnaissance revealed the enemy's plan to the command. Today the Germans will attack Sevastopol. Today we must prove what is the meaning of our life, today we will show the enemy that we are spiritualized people, that we are spiritualized by Lenin, and our enemies are only empty skins from people, stuffed with fear of the tyrant Hitler! We will cut them open, we will ram the tyrant's offspring! - Nikolay Filchenko exclaimed inspired, shining with strength.
  50. -1
    10 September 2021 13: 16
    Quote: EvilLion
    Indeed, unlike Tolstoy's rubbish, which is just rubbish, and an instrument of torture for schoolchildren, Virgin Soil Upturned and Sholokhov in general are undoubtedly masterpieces.

    In principle, not really rubbish, but it's better to study it at the university level.
  51. 0
    10 September 2021 14: 51
    At the party I asked a question to participants 50-60 years old, who completely read "War and Peace", out of fifteen people, only two (one disabled) read, that's it, the most reading country is another myth.
  52. The comment was deleted.
  53. 0
    11 September 2021 21: 46
    Современные книги и кино должны вроде обладать более динамичным развитием сюжета, чем 19 век, но 400 серий в очередной мыльной опере опровергают эту мысль. Вальтера, нашего, Скотта начал было читать с первой книги, но это просто утомительно даже по диагонали, а вот Сервантес/дон Кихот очень даже зашёл т.к. с годами начинаешь хорошо понимать, что такое рассеянный склероз и слабоумие.
  54. 0
    12 September 2021 19: 57
    Классическую литературу, особенно ту, которую преподают в школе, особенно русскую классику, стоило бы перешерстить с точки зрения прикладного аспекта. Другими словами, что, или кого, после изучения этой литературы, мы хотим получить на выходе? Воина, торгаша, политика, мечтателя, прагматика, путешественника, ученого, или практика? Литература нужна правильная. Чтобы, как пел Владимир Семеныч, "значит нужные книги ты в детстве читал..."
  55. +1
    13 September 2021 07: 49
    На мой субъективный взгляд сейчас другая проблема. Например я уже рад что мой сын хоть что-то читает, уже и не требую что нибудь конкретно, рад если книгу открыл.
  56. 0
    15 December 2021 09: 49
    Речь идет о школьной программе, материале, дающем опыт рассуждений о жизненных ситуациях и моральном выборе для детей, подобного опыта не имеющих, только начавших изучать мировую историю. Речь не о литературном наследии человечестве, отказ от письменных документах - свительствах тех эпох. Корректный анализ изложенного доступен лишь погруженных в материал ученых-историков, иначе это подобно изучению компьютера пигмеями Центральной Африки. Для этого существут детская литература, признанная экспертами пожходящей для формирования морального облика будущих граждан. Да, литература - это инструмент пропаганды. И если он используется не по назначению, результат непредсказуем. Сразу вспоминается фильм Мамина "Бакенбарды")))

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"