Military Review

How to at least try to catch up with the United States?

242

It's no secret that electronic warfare systems are the deserved pride of the Russian military-industrial complex. Concern KRET is one of the world's leading manufacturers and developers of this technology, the role of which on the modern battlefield is growing from year to year.


Electronic warfare systems are becoming an integral part of all combat arms, ground, air, fleet... Today we will talk about how Russian air-based electronic warfare systems look in comparison with American ones.

It's worth starting with our dedicated aircraft. And because it does not take up much space, and because accents will still have to be done.

With the electronic warfare planes, everything is just awful. All that the Air Force and the Navy are rich in aviation - these are Il-22M and Il-22PP.


The VKS are rich in the presence of 12 Il-22M and 3 Il-22PP. Naval aviation has 2 Il-22M. Moreover, the 22nd is a reconnaissance aircraft with the functions of an electronic warfare aircraft.

That's all for us. It is difficult not to get confused, but the rest of the Il-20 and Il-22 models have nothing to do with electronic warfare. These are reconnaissance planes, receiving rocket and space telemetry, command posts.

And speaking seriously, only the Il-22PP troika are truly modern electronic warfare aircraft. True, they have a base ... Not the youngest and most perfect. But time-tested and capable of carrying a large amount of equipment over a decent distance. There are no complaints about the "Prubshchik".

So, in fact, Russia has THREE aircraft capable of jamming in the air.


Here you need to understand that we mean covering objects or groups of aircraft. Many will now remember about the "Khibiny", which supposedly can "extinguish" all the electronics on the ship of a potential enemy. Let's be adults and serious people who don't believe in beautiful fairy tales.

"Khibiny" is a means of personal protection of an aircraft. Bulletproof vest, if you like. And he protects one plane from missiles, or an organized group of planes. And the Il-22PP is just a flying radio-electronic "house" in which anyone can take refuge. Or that can really drive some of the ship's systems crazy. It depends on how to put everything.

So here's a short excursion into our reality. Now let's see what our opponents have.

And the opponents have dances of joy. They have positive emotions that the new ARES reconnaissance and electronic warfare aircraft developed by L3Harris Technologies Corporation made its first flight.

The contract for the development and production of the aircraft was signed at the end of last year. You should not be surprised at the speed, after all, the base is taken ready-made and all that the developers need is to place workplaces for operators and lay several kilometers of wires and cables between the cabinets.

This aircraft will replace the Beechcraft RC-12X "Guardrail" currently in service.


The Otboinik is a tactical electronic reconnaissance aircraft created by the American company Beech Aircraft back in 1984. Despite the ongoing modernization and replacement of equipment, it is outdated both morally and physically. Physically - especially since the RC-12X "Huron", which was put into service in the United States more than 40 years ago, has not been produced for a long time, and the aircraft in service are experiencing problems with spare parts and components.

So the adoption of the new machines is not so much an opportunity for the US Army to take another step forward, in fact it is a lifeline, thanks to which tensions will be relieved in such an important sector as electronic warfare.

L3Harris Technologies is not the most well-known manufacturing company, not by hearsay, as they say, but it ranks sixth in the ranking of US Department of Defense contractors. They are engaged in many things, including communications, reconnaissance, surveillance and electronic warfare. So this is a very serious and reliable supplier of radio electronic equipment.

ARES from "L3Harris Technologies", as conceived by the designers, will have to play the role of a gunner on the battlefield for a high-precision weapons, providing a link between the weapon and the control center. That is, relaying commands to high-precision weapons operating at a considerable distance, cruise missiles, guided and corrected bombs, and so on.

The second role will be to detect, with the help of its own surveillance equipment, similar means of engaging the enemy and to set up jamming for these means.

To create such an aircraft, L3Harris Technologies uses the Bombardier Global 6000/6500 business jet, which can carry a payload of 6 kg.


The result is a light and unobtrusive, truly tactical aircraft of the battlefield, capable of performing various tasks in the interests of its side.

Comparing ARES and IL-22PP is difficult, as there is no data on the American aircraft yet. It makes no sense to compare Bombardier Global and IL-18, these are aircraft of different classes, for different tasks.

But in addition to ARES, there are many other aircraft in the United States that are capable of performing both the functions of a reconnaissance aircraft and an electronic warfare aircraft. In addition to the old Otboinik, there is also a Bombardier Challenger 650, a Boeing P-8 Poseidon, and a Boeing RC-135W Rivet Joint.

These are essentially reconnaissance aircraft in the first place, and they cannot be considered as actual electronic warfare aircraft. Yes, there are opportunities, but they are secondary. The RC-135W "riveter" was modernized to accommodate jamming equipment, but this is also a very old machine physically.

However, if you look in history aviation of the ground forces and the US Navy, then there you can find more than one full-fledged electronic warfare aircraft. That is, it was originally intended specifically for electronic warfare. The list, by the way, is decent:

Douglas EA-1F "Skyraider"
Martin EB-57 "Kanberra"
Douglas EB-66 "Destroyer"
McDonnell Douglas EКA-3 "Skywarrior"
EF-111A "Raven"
Grumman EA-6B "Prowler"
EC-130H "Compass Call"
Lockheed EP-3E "Orion" Aries II
Douglas EC-24
Boeing RC-135W "Rivet Joint"
EA-18G "Growler" that serves in the Navy today.

By the way, the list can be supplemented, there were other models produced in limited editions. These are, let's say, the most widespread since the advent of electronic warfare as a means of fighting the enemy.

What catches your eye? This is the number of models. Yes, from the very beginning, the United States paid great attention to electronic countermeasures. The same "Skyrader", which appeared immediately after the war, which became the first "correct" electronic warfare aircraft in the United States, had eight different modifications of this direction.

How to at least try to catch up with the United States?

The effective conduct of electronic warfare in the United States, moreover, in its aggressive form, is a key element of tactics. Aggressive use of electronic warfare means jamming and countering on enemy territory, as an option, in the area of ​​attacked objects.

This is exactly how the F / A-18 and EA-18G "Growler" act in conjunction (in theory) today as part of air groups on American aircraft carriers. One puts obstacles and makes it difficult for the enemy's air defense, the others blow everything to shreds.


And, it is precisely on aircraft carriers. That is, the duo is not defensive, but offensive, since an aircraft carrier is still an instrument for projecting force onto a specified area.

In our history, everything is somewhat sadder. Yes, there were electronic warfare aircraft, but the list is much shorter. Yak-28PP, An-12PP, Tu-16PP, Tu-22PP, Su-24MP.

And here it can be traced that we have made a bet on large planes with a large load. In general, the Su-24MP was produced in the amount of ten vehicles, in contrast to its predecessor, the Yak-28PP.


Yak-28PP

By the way, a number of experts believe that, as an electronic warfare aircraft, the Yak-28PP was a cut above the Su-24MP. Therefore, he served from the sixties to 1994. The Yak-28PP and Su-24MP were essentially the same tactical aircraft as the EA-18G Growler or the Grumman EA-6B Prowler. Products based on "Tu" and "An" belonged to a different class, larger aircraft with different tasks.

In any case, they are all in the past.

In general, by the mid-90s, with the withdrawal from the Yak-28PP, Tu-22PP, Su-24MP, Russia was left without aircraft of this direction at all. And here, in principle, it is no longer so important whether our aircraft were inferior in their capabilities to the American ones, or not. The Americans had electronic warfare aircraft, both tactical support and long-range, but we have no more.

The fact that the matter has generally moved off dead center in the form of the "Cutter" is already a breakthrough, one might say. And although a platform in the form of a former flying command post from the 70s of the last century was chosen to accommodate the equipment, the equipment is the most modern, which, according to the manufacturer, can provide selective jamming of enemy electronics without affecting the equipment of its aircraft.

The "Prubshchik" is capable of working both on aviation, unmanned aerial vehicles, and on air defense systems of a potential enemy. In addition, the "Porubshchik" can set up a screen for AWACS-type AWACS aircraft, which is very useful in our time, since these aircraft are entrusted with the important task of deep reconnaissance at distances far from the front line / borders.

The ability to work with drones and Patriot-type systems is also a very important option.

The fact that a veteran Il-18, created back in the 50s as a passenger airliner, was appointed to the role of the carrier is not surprising. The aircraft is distinguished by its reliability and economy, which means that it is able to "hang" for a long time in a given area and operate as onboard equipment.

IL-18 and its iterations are really reliable. If you carefully look at the list of accidents and disasters with the participation of IL-18, then due to the failure of the technical part there is no more than 10% of the total. Basically - crew errors in difficult conditions.

There is an opinion that "Porubshchik" will last a long time.

It can also be noted that we have such a machine as the Mi-8MTPR-1.


This is an electronic warfare helicopter equipped with the "Lever-AV" complex. "Lever", about which we once wrote, is a very interesting and promising complex with a great future. And the Mi-8 with such equipment will be very useful on the battlefield as a tactical support vehicle for troops.

But it is clear what weaknesses a helicopter has in comparison with an airplane. It is generally more difficult for a helicopter on a modern battlefield, since it is more vulnerable to the fire of MANPADS and MZA than an aircraft. On the other hand, a helicopter can be used in a way that would not work with an airplane, as a mobile jamming station, which can be "moved" to the enemy without being visually detected.

In fact, we do not have enough electronic warfare aircraft to support aviation and its naval version. The latter is especially relevant.

There is a very powerful aircraft carrier fleet lobby in our country. Fans of this class of ships do not take into account modern realities and believe that a hypothetical Russian aircraft carrier will be able to resist the American one on equal terms. This is a delusion caused by a superficial understanding of the issue.

Until we have carrier-based AWACS and EW aircraft, we can forget about any confrontation with the Americans. Simply because it will not be a fight, but a beating.

A group of American specialized aircraft will provide more accurate and faster detection and guidance for their own and maximum difficulty in operating foreign aircraft. How the rather ancient MiG-29Ks will be able to work in conditions of electronic countermeasures from the EA-18G Grumblers, how they will dodge missiles, given that the Khibiny cannot be installed on the MiG - too heavy structures for such an aircraft - these are the questions.

The creation of an aircraft carrier fleet should be started, among other things, with aircraft that are not capable of perishing heroically under the blows of the enemy, for the amusement of the latter, but to fight at the same level and, possibly, to win. But this is a topic for a separate trial.

In any case, today we are seeing a picture that the United States is significantly ahead of Russia in terms of creating electronic warfare aircraft. To date, the US Navy alone has more than 150 AWACS, reconnaissance and electronic warfare aircraft at its disposal. And about 30 more in the ground air force. And they continue to improve their weapons further.

In our country, in terms of the creation and production of specialized electronic reconnaissance and combat aircraft, everything is more than sad. Yes, we have a very strong grouping of ground-based electronic warfare systems, there are electronic warfare systems adapted for service on ships, but since the Second World War it is clear and understandable - who owns the air, he owns the initiative.

How it is possible to reduce such a gap with the United States, and whether it is possible at all, is a question for the next decade. If we are talking about defensive actions on our territory, this is one alignment, but if we are talking about the projection of Russia's power and interests to other regions, this is a much more complicated situation.
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  1. OgnennyiKotik
    OgnennyiKotik 5 September 2021 06: 18
    +18
    It is also worth adding the EH-60 Quick Fix helicopter and tactical UAVs - Shadow 200. They provide radio and electronic reconnaissance, as well as electronic suppression of formations located at a distance of 15-20 km from the front edge of the combat area.
    Complex "Quick Fix-2", equipped with four radio reconnaissance helicopters and REP EUN-60C. At an altitude of the jamming helicopter of 500 m, the complex provides a suppression range of 90-120 km, at an altitude of 3000 m - 210-260 km.

    They also have AN / MLQ-40 (V) 1 Prophet ("Prophet") with four RQ-7 Shadow type UAVs as part of the AN / MLQ-XNUMX (V) XNUMX Prophet EW system brigades.

  2. letinant
    letinant 5 September 2021 06: 19
    +38
    What nonsense ?! What kind of electronic warfare helicopter will launch on the line of contact ?! The author, Skomorokhov, darling, stop writing nonsense! Oh please. Where did you find the SU-24 MP? Each SU-24 empty and with the letter M, carry PRR (X-28, X-25MP, etc.). Each SU-34, SU-35, MIG-29 and whatever else we have in service can carry PRR, they are all electronic warfare aircraft. "Khibiny" is an electronic warfare system that can cover a flight of aircraft, in addition to determine what and where it is firing from. In addition, the KOLS system, in the optical spectrum, sees the launch of missiles from the TSS and warns pilots (azimuth distance). A similar system is installed on the "President" helicopters, it is also called an analogue of KOLS, only with advanced functions, in addition to defining the launch, there is an active protection function (a laser beam is released in the direction of the rocket boss, thereby disrupting the guidance on the engine and making a "gift", one heat spot for the whole world. As a result, the rocket starts to rush or go to the side).
    1. ja-ja-vw
      ja-ja-vw 5 September 2021 12: 21
      +14
      Quote: letinant
      they are all electronic warfare aircraft

      but...
      you have some other reality
      Aircraft electronic warfare is highly specialized an aircraft designed to suppress electronic reconnaissance, guidance, aiming and support of the enemy, for which it is equipped with various complex systems of detection, analysis and counteraction.

      Quote: letinant
      "Khibiny" is an electronic warfare system that can cover a flight of aircraft, in addition to determine what and where it is firing from. In addition, the KOLS system, in the optical spectrum, sees the launch of missiles from the TSS and warns pilots (azimuth distance)

      Khibiny (L-265 / L-265M10, L-175V / L-175VE, KS-418E, etc.) this is not electronic warfare, but REP (countermeasures)
      it is unlikely that with "3600 watts of power consumption of the complex" it is possible to cover a link of aircraft
      it is generally impossible to determine "who is shooting from where" with the Khibiny. basically

      sensors of the KOLS system - a laser rangefinder and a head of an infrared location system.
      KOLS on the MiG-29 and OLS on the Su-27 are installed in front of the cockpit canopy, which is due to their predominant use in the modes of close maneuvering combat with maximum coordination in the field of view with the pilot's field of view.
      KOLS 13S and OLS-27 are only information sensors about detected and tracked targets (the subsequent processing of this information is carried out in the SUV-29 and SUV-27 on-board computers)
      essentially OLS:
      provides tracking of the target in the corners with an infrared system and measures the range with a laser system with their integration on a single optical axis.
      how this system and its "sensors"

      can
      Quote: letinant
      in the optical spectrum he sees the launch of missiles from the TSS and warns the pilots (azimuth distance).

      ?
      1. letinant
        letinant 5 September 2021 12: 55
        +1
        Quote: ja-ja-vw
        Quote: letinant
        they are all electronic warfare aircraft

        but...
        you have some other reality
        Aircraft electronic warfare is highly specialized an aircraft designed to suppress electronic reconnaissance, guidance, aiming and support of the enemy, for which it is equipped with various complex systems of detection, analysis and counteraction.

        Quote: letinant
        "Khibiny" is an electronic warfare system that can cover a flight of aircraft, in addition to determine what and where it is firing from. In addition, the KOLS system, in the optical spectrum, sees the launch of missiles from the TSS and warns pilots (azimuth distance)

        Khibiny (L-265 / L-265M10, L-175V / L-175VE, KS-418E, etc.) this is not electronic warfare, but REP (countermeasures)
        it is unlikely that with "3600 watts of power consumption of the complex" it is possible to cover a link of aircraft
        it is generally impossible to determine "who is shooting from where" with the Khibiny. basically

        sensors of the KOLS system - a laser rangefinder and a head of an infrared location system.
        KOLS on the MiG-29 and OLS on the Su-27 are installed in front of the cockpit canopy, which is due to their predominant use in the modes of close maneuvering combat with maximum coordination in the field of view with the pilot's field of view.
        KOLS 13S and OLS-27 are only information sensors about detected and tracked targets (the subsequent processing of this information is carried out in the SUV-29 and SUV-27 on-board computers)
        essentially OLS:
        provides tracking of the target in the corners with an infrared system and measures the range with a laser system with their integration on a single optical axis.
        how this system and its "sensors"

        can
        Quote: letinant
        in the optical spectrum he sees the launch of missiles from the TSS and warns the pilots (azimuth distance).

        ?

        For electronic warfare aircraft, where is the discrepancy with the definition? In your written definition of electronic warfare aircraft, only one type of aircraft is indicated, a radio reconnaissance aircraft. And there are also airplanes of radio-electronic jamming (they jam all the air, or specific frequencies), so you read the article and after all there is an IL-20PP "Porubshchik", its purpose is to interfere. And also there is a third type of aircraft, fire suppression of radio-contrast targets. The onboard complex SU-24M, SU-34, SU-35 and MIG-29M (aka MIG-35) allows the use of aircraft to identify and destroy radio-contrast targets. Besides, you have a mistake in the definition. How do they provide the enemy and why do they do it?
        Did you know that the Khibiny complex consists of two containers, transmission and reception. They are suspended on different airplane consoles and perfectly cope with all the tasks that I have described.
        As for KOLS, you can give me an example of the Yak-3, the SU-24M does not have such a system, but all the others do. And radar front and rear view and KOLS, the same reviews. Only the MIG-35 drops out, his Optical-Locating System generally provides an overview of the sphere, in other words, the torus.
        Rzhevsky, learn materiel, do not dishonor your namesake.
        1. ja-ja-vw
          ja-ja-vw 5 September 2021 13: 38
          +10
          Quote: letinant
          For electronic warfare aircraft, where is the discrepancy with the definition?

          specialized they
          Quote: letinant
          only one type of aircraft is indicated, the radio reconnaissance aircraft.

          comma in the same place and on
          Electronic warfare is Tu-16RM-2 and product L-415 (Il-22PP) is the same aircraft electronic warfare
          Quote: letinant
          And there is also a third type of aircraft, fire suppression of radio-contrast targets

          you didn’t mix anything up there?
          can
          aiming at sources of radar radiation

          Quote: letinant
          Besides, you have a mistake in the definition. How do they provide the enemy and why do they do it?

          there is no mistake, it's just written there
          The electronic warfare aircraft is a highly specialized aircraft, designed to suppress: means of electronic reconnaissance, guidance, aiming and support of the enemy; for which it is equipped with various complex systems of detection, analysis and counteraction.
          Aircraft REB SUPPRESSES RER means, guidance, aiming means from the enemy
          Quote: letinant
          Did you know that the Khibiny complex consists of two containers, transmission and reception.

          why only 2? and what containers do you mean?
          here he is alone

          and here

          there can be only one on the SU-24 (well, as planned)
          ==========
          The complex consists of a reconnaissance unit, which detects radiation from an air-based radar or air defense, as well as an electronic countermeasures unit. Part of the system operates at the most popular high frequencies (H and J waves) and is built into the airframe of the aircraft.
          +
          containers can be hung, which expand the capabilities of the system by adding the ability to work at medium waves (from E to G).
          What you write about
          Quote: letinant
          consists of two containers

          this is the station of active jamming of personal protection SAP 518:
          operates in the 2-18 GHz range and is housed in two overhead containers that are installed at the ends of the aircraft wings. One container contains a receiver (for determining the frequency of the emitting signal), the second contains a transmitter (for generating a response signal of interference).
          Quote: letinant
          According to KOLS, you give me an example of the Yak-3, there is no such system on the SU-24M

          and who said that there is? I am?
          Where? when?

          Quote: letinant
          Rzhevsky, learn materiel, do not dishonor your namesake.

          can you give a link to the materiel?
          Well, the one on which you were "trained"?
          1. Bez 310
            Bez 310 5 September 2021 14: 15
            +12
            Quote: ja-ja-vw
            Electronic warfare is Tu-16RM-2

            No.
            This is a naval reconnaissance aircraft with an RTR station.
            Electronic warfare aircraft - Tu-16P "Bouquet", "Elka".
            1. ja-ja-vw
              ja-ja-vw 5 September 2021 15: 51
              -6
              Yes?

              active jamming station - SPS-5M on it. pt electronic warfare

              The "Buket" system included active jamming stations SPS-22, SPS-33, SPS-44 and SPS-55, each of which covered a certain frequency range ... and so on until "Lilac"
              1. Bez 310
                Bez 310 5 September 2021 16: 33
                +13
                Quote: ja-ja-vw
                Yes?

                YES!
                Do not quote the Internet, do not show your
                dullness, do not argue with a specialist.
                The ability to copy text from the Internet does not speak
                about your competence in aviation
                group means of electronic warfare.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. Bez 310
                    Bez 310 5 September 2021 17: 05
                    +25
                    Quote: ja-ja-vw
                    good "specialist"

                    You can remove the quotes when it comes to me.
                    You would not grimace, try to make jokes,
                    and somehow identified their competencies.
                    About me - former navigator of the electronic warfare squadron in the regiment
                    supersonic missile carriers.
                    1. ja-ja-vw
                      ja-ja-vw 5 September 2021 17: 30
                      .
                      Quote: Bez 310
                      You would not grimace, try to make jokes,

                      "specialist" I will repeat myself, if you didn’t get it the first time
                      Don't tell me what to do, and I won't tell you where you need to go.

                      MM. Zhvanetsky

                      Quote: Bez 310
                      About me - a former navigator of the electronic warfare squadron in

                      the "navigator" is happy for you, although I have never seen "so special" in the discussion
                      I’m not ready, I’ll lay out the laundry here, I’ll use Art. 51 of the Constitution.
                      But, whatever you "specialist" are not alone in the electronic warfare, I will answer: I held in my hands
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. ja-ja-vw
                        ja-ja-vw 6 September 2021 11: 14
                        -7
                        Quote: Bez 310
                        I understood you, covered up incompetence

                        well, that's your right / your opinion
                        Quote: Bez 310
                        About me - former navigator of the electronic warfare squadron in the regiment
                        supersonic missile carriers.

                        Imagine the comic situation: my navigation in the car, with a clever look, would argue about air suspension and how she understands it.
                        What would I call it?
                        Here too: the crew of the Tu-16RM-2 is 6 people.
                        Of which 3 are cabbies (of which one is a navigator), and 3 are specialists
                        so it turns out that the navigator on the ship (the essence of which is "all shocked to know") considers himself a specialist in radio communications, antennas, etc.
                      3. The comment was deleted.
    2. Intruder
      Intruder 5 September 2021 16: 46
      +6
      you know that the Khibiny complex consists of two containers, transmission and reception. They are suspended on different airplane consoles and perfectly cope with all the tasks that I have described.
      Rather, the defense complex and its modifications, how can RTRs work, specifically for a given side, where they are !?

      Multifunctional air-based electronic warfare / suppression (EW / REP) complex. Developed within the framework of the Khibiny ROC by the Kaluga Scientific Research Radio Engineering Institute (KNIRTI, part of KRET), the chief designer of the complex is Alexander Semenovich Yampolsky. Investigations of electronic reconnaissance complexes (RER) combined with active jamming stations, which later led to the development of the Khibiny complex, were started by KNIRTI in 1977 (see below). In 1984, the development of the Khibiny-10V complex for arming the T-10V / Su-34 aircraft was already underway. In 1990, the first sample of the L175 complex, created within the framework of the Khibiny ROC, passed acceptance tests. By the mid-1990s, its container version L-175V was developed, designed to equip Su-34 aircraft.
      The complex is intended for radio direction finding of the probing signal of an irradiation source with subsequent distortion of the parameters of the reflected signal, namely for:

      - delays in the detection of the KREP carrier aircraft as an object of attack for the enemy;

      - masking the true object against the background of false ones;

      - difficulties in measuring the distance to the object, its speed and angular position;

      - deterioration of the characteristics of the tracking mode "on the pass" when scanning the beam of the on-board radar antenna;

      - an increase in the time and difficulty in capturing an object when switching to the continuous radio direction finding mode.

      The composition of the complex type "Khibiny":
      - RER system "Proran" or more modern;
      - system of active jamming "Regatta" or more modern (in a container or in an airplane glider);
      - system for setting active interference of group protection (in the container);
      - broadband block for precise frequency memorization - TS block:
      - Computing multiprocessor subsystem;
      Modifications:
      - R&D "Proran" - development of a complex of electronic intelligence;
      - research / development work "Regatta" - development of a complex of active jamming;
      - ROC "Khibiny" - a complex of electronic intelligence (ROC "Proran") combined with a complex of deliveries of active interference ("ROC" Regatta);
      - the Khibiny-10V / L-175V / L-175VE complex - the REP complex for T-10V / Su-34 aircraft.
      - the Khibiny complex / KS-418E - the design of the REP complex for export aircraft Su-24MK / Su-24MK2, the development of the complex is apparently not completed.
      - complex REP "Khibiny-M10" / "Khibiny-M6"
      - complex REP "Khibiny-60"
      - complex REP "Khibiny-M" L-265 / L-265M10 - complex REP "Su-35S" with containers at the wing tips.
      - complex electronic warfare "Khibiny-U" - an improved version of the complex. In August 2013, at the MAKS-2013 air show, KNIRTI and the Russian Ministry of Defense signed a contract for the development and testing of the Khibiny-U electronic warfare system for front-line aircraft. As part of the ROC, the complex will be deployed on a Su-30SM aircraft.
      - complex "Tarantul" - development of the complex "Khibiny" developed by KNIRTI.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 5 September 2021 13: 06
    +8
    Where did you find the SU-24 MP

    Yes, from the website of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.

    Or are you more knowledgeable than the Ministry of Defense and can disavow their information?
  • Undecim
    Undecim 5 September 2021 13: 10
    +9
    Each SU-24 empty and with the letter M, carry PRR (X-28, X-25MP, etc.)

    The article is, in general, about electronic warfare, and not about the PRR. Or did you not notice?
    1. Sanichsan
      Sanichsan 5 September 2021 23: 07
      +10
      Quote: Undecim
      The article is, in general, about electronic warfare, and not about the PRR. Or did you not notice?

      Citizen Skomorokhov is known for cleverly ripping out some kind of equipment from the general structure of the army and arranging an intrigue. now he plucked out specialized electronic warfare aircraft with tweezers ...

      I have a proposal to the respected Skomorokhov, to write an article about whether the United States, or Russia, will ever be able not to overtake, but at least catch up with the Papuans from the Amazon jungle in the area of ​​spitting pipes and poisonous arrows to them. bully
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 6 September 2021 06: 34
        +3
        There are no Papuans in the Amazon jungle. The Papuans do not use wind pipes.
  • Barberry25
    Barberry25 5 September 2021 13: 46
    0
    well, in any case, we do not have enough modern electronic warfare aircraft and the solution here consists of 2 stages: 1) development of a payload for standard su-30/34 to ensure their protection at the stage of combat operations, 2) production of electronic warfare aircraft based on Tu-204SM-PR and IL-114PR.
    1. paul3390
      paul3390 5 September 2021 14: 20
      +7
      On the other hand, it seems that the Russian Federation is the leader in ground-based electronic warfare. And they, whatever one may say, will always be more powerful than air ones. Just at least for the available power and cubic capacity. Since we seem to have no one to attack, at least - outside the range of ground-based electronic warfare, is the described situation really so catastrophic? It is clear to mattress makers - by definition, as aggressors, they are forced to rely exclusively on aviation, but for Russia the situation is a little different, isn't it?
      1. Barberry25
        Barberry25 5 September 2021 20: 51
        +2
        I do not deny, but you need to be strong in all areas
        1. paul3390
          paul3390 5 September 2021 20: 57
          +6
          You won't be able to be strong everywhere - there will not be enough pants .. Russian Federation tea is not the USSR according to its capabilities - but it did not work out that way either ..
          1. Barberry25
            Barberry25 5 September 2021 21: 01
            +1
            well, at the moment we are talking about ensuring the minimum level
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 6 September 2021 11: 21
    +3
    Quote: letinant
    What nonsense ?!

    In my opinion, in your post there is more delusional than Skomorokhov's ... 1. The presence of PR missiles is far from all electronic warfare ... 2. "Khibiny", according to Skomorokhov, "bulletproof vest" (that is, individual protection ...); but pillboxes are needed ("fortified area") ... (that is, collective defense) .... and with this, according to Skomorokhov, there is a problem in Russia! You mention "President" ... again "individual protection"! In my opinion, you have a stupid boil in your post!
    1. Hexenmeister
      Hexenmeister 6 September 2021 11: 49
      +4
      It seems to me that the situation is much more complicated. "Khibiny" refers to "bulletproof vest" only because it can counteract weapons, that is, homing heads. If there are no signals from the seeker, then it will oppose the surveillance radar, and this is no longer "individual" protection. The whole question is in the number of "Khibiny" in the air, what range and how many surveillance radars they will cover. It is clear that it will not be possible to close everyone, and this is where either specialized electronic warfare aircraft or aircraft carrying additional electronic warfare equipment should enter into action, but they will also have their own countermeasures.
  • Professor
    Professor 5 September 2021 06: 37
    +28
    How to at least try to catch up with the United States?

    Elementary. Pay programmers and electronics engineers like in Silicon Valley in order to compete in working conditions with Google and Amazon, and specialists will pour into the military-industrial complex, creating competition for the bourgeoisie. In the meantime, a Russian programmer can work without leaving home for the same bourgeois, indirectly strengthening THEIR defenses.
    1. The popuas
      The popuas 5 September 2021 06: 50
      +22
      That's right! You will not go far on naked patriotism.
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 5 September 2021 07: 07
        +25
        You will not go far on naked patriotism.
        Patriotism in Russia is now of several categories. The head of the Russian Guard, whose grandson studies at an elite Angian school, is a greater patriot than a person who simply works for the good of Russia.
        1. The popuas
          The popuas 5 September 2021 08: 03
          +9
          That's the whole point! There should be one patriotism, for one thing, for another!
          1. Firelake
            Firelake 5 September 2021 08: 34
            +22
            When fat cats tell poor people about their love for their homeland, then all patriotism leaves the audience.
            1. Dmitry V.
              Dmitry V. 6 September 2021 15: 20
              +6
              Quote: FireLake
              When fat cats tell poor people about their love for their homeland, then all patriotism leaves the audience.


              Don't touch the cats.
              Write more precisely - c_cats!
              1. OgnennyiKotik
                OgnennyiKotik 6 September 2021 15: 22
                +5
                Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich
                Don't touch the cats.
                Write more precisely - from_cats

                Support!
      2. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 6 September 2021 10: 54
        -2
        Quote: Popuas
        That's right! You won't go far on golimous patriotism

        That is, Pavka Korchagins, Vasily Gubanovs, Akishins, Kaitanovs, Ufimtsevs ... have long disappeared, evaporated and do not fit into the "new reality"?
    2. marchcat
      marchcat 5 September 2021 06: 55
      +4
      Pay programmers and electronics engineers
      Those who pay need money themselves.
    3. Boris55
      Boris55 5 September 2021 07: 17
      .
      Quote: Professor
      Pay programmers and electronics engineers like in Silicon Valley

      As soon as we get a printing press, let's get started.
      1. Maki Avellevich
        Maki Avellevich 5 September 2021 07: 23
        +9
        Quote: Boris55
        As soon as we get a printing press, let's get started.

        who prevents any country from printing their candy wrappers?
        inflation say? dog with her!
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 5 September 2021 07: 27
          +3
          Quote: Maki Avellievich
          who prevents any country from printing their candy wrappers?

          De Gaulle brought two green steamers to the United States and demanded to exchange it for gold - he was killed.
          Kenedy tried to issue US dollars - killed.
          Hussein tried to sell oil for his own money - that's right.
          Gaddafi tried to do the same as Hussein, torn to pieces on the air.
          1. Maki Avellevich
            Maki Avellevich 5 September 2021 07: 29
            +10
            Quote: Boris55
            De Gaulle brought two green steamers to the United States and demanded to exchange it for gold - he was killed.
            Kenedy tried to issue US dollars - killed.
            Hussein tried to blow up oil at his own expense.
            Gaddafi tried to do the same as Hussein, torn to pieces on the air.

            no one plays giveaway.
            everything is an adult. triumph or trample ...
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 5 September 2021 07: 33
              .
              Quote: Maki Avellievich
              no one plays giveaway.
              everything is an adult. triumph or trample ...

              So that we would not be trampled, we re-equipped the army - we defended ourselves from the external enemy.
              Now, as the Minister of Defense said, we need to deal with the internal enemy.
              Shoigu and Lavrov go to the Duma for this very purpose. And there it is not far away for your printing press.
              1. Sling cutter
                Sling cutter 5 September 2021 08: 31
                +7
                Quote: Boris55
                Shoigu and Lavrov go to the Duma for this very purpose. And there it is not far away for your printing press.

                Borya, where and why are these two very wealthy people going, flesh and blood, pro-government representatives of Eboputinism?
              2. 2 Level Advisor
                2 Level Advisor 5 September 2021 08: 45
                +13
                Boris, yes, economic wars nowadays: -e-ko-no-mi-ch-kie! the army is no longer a guarantee against "trampled" but on this front with the army we have big problems .. the USSR has an army even steeper at times than the Russian Federation had, saved?
              3. military_cat
                military_cat 5 September 2021 12: 55
                +12
                Quote: Boris55
                Shoigu and Lavrov go to the Duma just for this

                Neither Shoigu nor Lavrov will be in the Duma. They are included in the list for putting the brains on the people, because for those who follow them on the list, the voter can only be forced to vote with kicks.
          2. sterx20072
            sterx20072 5 September 2021 12: 20
            +13
            I will correct, de Gaulle was not killed, but sent to retire, a colonel.
          3. Offliner
            Offliner 7 September 2021 21: 13
            0
            For this and against this, REP and EW are needed.
        2. Flooding
          Flooding 5 September 2021 08: 54
          +6
          Quote: Maki Avellievich
          inflation say? dog with her!

          and in general you need to live more economically. affordable
          1. ja-ja-vw
            ja-ja-vw 5 September 2021 11: 52
            +7
            trillionaire you my friend. Rockeller, seeing this banknote, was so moved that he went to look for a candidate from whom to withdraw the 7th heart
            1. Flooding
              Flooding 5 September 2021 11: 53
              +2
              Quote: ja-ja-vw
              trillionaire you my friend. Rockeller, seeing this banknote, was so moved that he went to look for a candidate from whom to withdraw the 7th heart

              oh, if it were mine
              someone else got an incredible ride
      2. Sergey1964
        Sergey1964 5 September 2021 07: 49
        +3
        Quote: Boris55
        As soon as we get a printing press, let's get started.

        Russia has a printing press. And he is not idle. Here, from the official website of the CBR. Press release March 23, 2021.
        ===
        In 2021–2025, the Bank of Russia will continue the planned modernization of Bank of Russia banknotes. The modernization will include improving the security complex and updating the design of banknotes in denominations of 10, 50, 100, 500, 1000 and 5000 rubles.
        The design of the modernized banknotes of the Bank of Russia will use the theme of the federal districts of the Russian Federation, which will make it possible to show the features of the territories, their history and modern achievements.
        ===
        So everything is in order with the printing press in Russia, there is no need to spread panic here.
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 5 September 2021 07: 59
          -4
          Quote: Sergey1964
          So everything is in order with the printing press in Russia, there is no need to spread panic here.

          So far, we can print rubles exactly as much as currencies have earned and not a single kopeck more.
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 5 September 2021 08: 32
            +4
            Quote: Boris55
            So far, we can print rubles exactly as much as currencies have earned and not a single kopeck more.

            most likely you are right
            the issue is tied to foreign exchange earnings
            otherwise the ruble will rapidly fall in price
            1. Sling cutter
              Sling cutter 5 September 2021 08: 34
              -2
              Quote: Flood
              most likely you are right
              emissions are linked to foreign exchange earnings
              otherwise the ruble will rapidly fall in price

              But what about the stabilization funds? Or is it not revenue?
              1. Flooding
                Flooding 5 September 2021 08: 40
                +3
                Quote: Stroporez
                But what about the stabilization funds? Or is it not revenue?

                it is necessary in the context of the question to separate foreign exchange earnings from the total
                foreign exchange earnings are important precisely because the foreign exchange reserve is, unfortunately, almost the only instrument in modern Russia to ensure the stability of the ruble

                due to what funds are replenished, I do not know for sure
                but they do not require additional issue of banknotes
                in fact, any deposition of funds is their withdrawal from free circulation until a certain moment
                1. Sling cutter
                  Sling cutter 5 September 2021 08: 51
                  +7
                  Quote: Flood
                  ado, in the context of the question, to separate foreign exchange earnings from the total
                  due to what funds are replenished, I do not know for sure
                  but they do not require additional issue of banknotes
                  in fact, any deposition of funds is their withdrawal from free circulation until a certain moment

                  If it is the case that our currency is secured excl. dollar, then we must admit that we are a colony, the head of state is a procurator, and we are slaves.
                  1. And Us Rat
                    And Us Rat 5 September 2021 09: 56
                    +5
                    Quote: Stroporez
                    If it is the case that our currency is secured excl. dollar, then we must admit that we are a colony, the head of state is a procurator, and we are slaves.

                    Good morning. laughing
                    1. Sling cutter
                      Sling cutter 5 September 2021 16: 29
                      +2
                      Quote: And Us Rat
                      Good morning.

                      Definitely! laughing
                2. Sling cutter
                  Sling cutter 5 September 2021 09: 22
                  +3
                  Quote: Flood

                  due to what funds are replenished, I do not know for sure

                  And this is Putin's budget rule, if oil is more expensive than dollars, everything else goes to the stabilization fund.
                3. lucul
                  lucul 5 September 2021 12: 08
                  -7
                  it is necessary in the context of the question to separate foreign exchange earnings from the total
                  foreign exchange earnings are important precisely because the foreign exchange reserve is, unfortunately, almost the only instrument in modern Russia to ensure the stability of the ruble

                  The entire Western usurious financial system is based on TRUST. Like - do you believe that I have a million dollars? I believe. That's it, you can print this very million candy wrappers.
                  For the world's usurers, Russia is an enemy, and trust does not extend to it, and therefore we have to prove that we have this million dollars physically by selling raw materials for foreign currency. And the more we sell them raw materials, the lower they estimate it to us.
                  But now, Russia begins to drive almost half of its raw materials directly to China (bypassing the London Stock Exchange), in exchange for receiving machinery and equipment. Why does the West get hysterical, because their monopoly is melting.
                  1. Flooding
                    Flooding 5 September 2021 12: 14
                    +1
                    Quote: lucul
                    do you believe i have a million dollars? I believe



                    just not to believe, but rather to trust
                    to trust instead of to believe
                    even when it comes to a relationship with God
                  2. Spring fluff
                    Spring fluff 5 September 2021 17: 09
                    +2
                    "The entire Western usurious financial system is based on the TRUST of those close to you. ... For the world's usurers, Russia is an enemy, and trust does not extend to it."
                    If you open a textbook on economics and look at the functions of money (there are not many of them), you will find there, inter alia, that money is a store of value - relatively speaking, a money reserve. I don’t need to consume them now, postponed for the future.
                    So a dollar issued 200 years ago is a canned dollar that is usable. And the ruble, issued over the past 200 years, has gone rotten, I won't even say how many times. The buyer votes in rubles for the dollar.
                    1. lucul
                      lucul 5 September 2021 17: 12
                      -7
                      If you open the economics textbook

                      Blah blah blah )))
                      And the ruble, issued over the past 200 years, has gone rotten, I won't even say how many times.

                      blah-bala-blah)))
                      Don’t hang me on the ears.
                      The best textbook on economics is the Torah, everything else is not worth attention.
                      1. Spring fluff
                        Spring fluff 5 September 2021 17: 28
                        +3
                        and you are funny :) before you catch up with America, you need to learn a little.
                        I hope I will not reveal something new to you if I say that the Torah is included in the Orthodox Bible (Old Testament)?

                        ps tell me, and "cybernetics is the science of obscurantists"? (literary newspaper 05.04.1952)
                      2. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 5 September 2021 17: 37
                        +6
                        The best textbook on economics is the Torah, everything else is not worth attention.
                        Oy-vey, you read it to the end wassat ?
                      3. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 5 September 2021 19: 53
                        +4
                        Quote: Bolt Cutter
                        The best textbook on economics is the Torah, everything else is not worth attention.
                        Oy-vey, you read it to the end wassat ?

                        Oh, you goy thou, good fellow, may the heroic hand not dry up in the places of the nasty about Lot and his sadomo-Gamor's daughters, may there be no bedsores in the places of the causal 30 years on the stove lying Tooru you can read, for the hibert is from difficalt lengwidge, but while you learn it zone bikini sidepieces will grow back yes hi
                      4. And Us Rat
                        And Us Rat 5 September 2021 20: 39
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Oh, you goy thou, good fellow, may the heroic hand not dry up in the places of the nasty about Lot and his sadomo-Gamor's daughters, may there be no bedsores in the causal places for 30 years on the stove lying Tooru is readable, for the hibert is from difficalt lengwidge, but while you learn it zone bikini sidepieces will grow back

                        I'll steal for quotes. laughing laughing laughing
                      5. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 5 September 2021 20: 55
                        +2
                        "Conditions" (c) laughing
                4. Firelake
                  Firelake 6 September 2021 18: 15
                  0
                  The Bible is almost completely stolen Tanach ... And the first Christians called themselves a Jewish sect. Generally speaking, Christianity took shape as an independent religion only with the adoption of the New Testament. The dislike of modern Christians for Jews is a typical conflict between fathers and children)
      3. Spring fluff
        Spring fluff 5 September 2021 12: 12
        +3
        the issue of rubles is not tied to the volume of exports ("foreign exchange earnings"). I will hint a little - you may have noticed that the ruble has been gradually devaluing over the years of the existence of the Russian Federation (more rubles have to be paid for the dollar)?
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 5 September 2021 12: 29
          +3
          Quote: Spring Fluff
          you may have noticed that the ruble has been gradually devaluing throughout the years of the existence of the Russian Federation

          it is difficult to find a person who would not notice it
          Quote: Spring Fluff
          the issue of rubles is not tied to the volume of exports ("foreign exchange earnings")

          you're right. I put it inaccurately
          rather, it's not about revenue, because there is a huge share of ruble expenses in foreign exchange earnings
          it would probably be more correct:
          the stability of the ruble is ensured by foreign exchange reserves.
          therefore, additional emissions to avoid inflation should be supported by an increase in reserves.
          True, an inevitable question arises: if this is so, then why do we have a cheaper ruble with a constant increase in reserves?
          I can not answer. it is obvious that there is no direct relationship here.
          that is, "the condition is necessary, but not sufficient"
          1. Liam
            Liam 5 September 2021 13: 11
            +6
            Quote: Flood
            therefore, additional emissions to avoid inflation should be supported by an increase in reserves.
            True, an inevitable question arises: if this is so, then why do we have a cheaper ruble with a constant increase in reserves?
            I can not answer. it is obvious that there is no direct relationship here.

            Because the volume of the money supply is based on the volume of the economy and not on foreign exchange reserves.
            1. Flooding
              Flooding 5 September 2021 15: 31
              +1
              Quote: Liam
              Because the volume of the money supply is based on the volume of the economy and not on foreign exchange reserves.

              yeah. in theory.
              but in practice?
              look at the most obvious example - the United States. on economic growth and emissions.
              where banknotes serve not only the economy, but also politics.
              1. Liam
                Liam 5 September 2021 15: 44
                +6
                Quote: Flood
                look at the most obvious example - the United States.

                Firstly, this is not the most obvious example. The US dollar is the reserve currency of most countries in the world and the dollar volume is provided by the economies of all these countries.

                Russia (like any other country), whose currency is provided only by its own economy, cannot print money as much as it pleases. As well as spend its reserves. Too much money for a weak economy is like an overdose for a drug addict. Will die immediately from hyperinflation
                1. Flooding
                  Flooding 5 September 2021 16: 08
                  -1
                  Quote: Liam
                  Russia (like any other country) whose currency is provided only by its own economy cannot print money as much as it pleases

                  no one said otherwise
                  Quote: Liam
                  Too much money for a weak economy is like an overdose for a drug addict.

                  dear Liam, but this is common knowledge
                  and is not disputed by me
                  above it was about something else, about the stability of the ruble
                  if the whole thing is in accordance with the size of the money supply to the needs of the national economy, then since 2014 either the economy has been blown away three times, or the money supply has swollen three times
                  but it is not so
                  hence, there are other factors affecting the stability of currencies
                2. Liam
                  Liam 5 September 2021 16: 34
                  +6
                  Quote: Flood
                  but it is not so
                  hence, there are other factors affecting the stability of currencies

                  Of course not. No special distortions in the ratio of the ruble mass and the volume of the economy have happened over the years.
                  Another thing happened - the collapse of the ruble against the dollar and other stable currencies. Only this is a song from another opera.
                  A barrel of 100+ in zero and good relations with the West then led to the appearance of huge masses of dollars in Russia in the form of oil windfall profits and Western investments. For political reasons, the authorities held back the ruble against the dollar. Remember the so-called currency corridors? The Central Bank was selling huge amounts of dollars every day for rubles. And you know that the first law of the market, the more the supply of a certain commodity (the dollar in this case), the lower its price. But it was an unhealthy game and could not last long. two things happened at the same time - the collapse of the barrel and the sanctions for Ukraine, which first of all hit the financial investments of the West in the Russian Federation. The dollar flow instantly dried up and the Central Bank could no longer maintain an artificially low exchange rate of the dollar against the ruble. Otherwise, the collapse of the entire economy threatened. bullshit and the market determined the real ruble exchange rate. Russia became impoverished but saved the economy
                3. Sling cutter
                  Sling cutter 5 September 2021 16: 53
                  +7
                  Quote: Liam
                  In 2014, two things happened simultaneously - the collapse of the barrel and the sanctions for Ukraine, which first of all hit the financial investments of the West in the Russian Federation. The flow of dollars instantly dried up and the Central Bank could no longer maintain an artificially low exchange rate of the dollar against the ruble.

                  In general, the glasterheads explained the fall of the ruble by speculation on the stock markets.
                  Then the most important came forward and said that the cheap ruble is profitable for US.
                  but it looked something like this:
                  "At night at the dacha. Putin: Good evening, we need to sort out the issue. Rosneft needs to pay off the bonds for thousands of dollars, there is no liquidity, Elvira, so? What will be the proposals? Eurobonds, the currency is in price, foreign markets are closed, there is no foreign exchange liquidity Putin: Igor, why didn't you buy it off earlier? ., it is very difficult to predict the consequences of our wise geopolitics .. Gref: Yudaev is a macroeconomist, I should have foreseen and calculated! Putin: In short, colleagues, I am listening to the proposals. and then they repay it at Elvira, we convert the money we got into ye. Profit. Putin: And how will this affect the exchange rate? Kostin: Shit! Very ... Bad. But, technically, nobody has anything to do with it, all damned speculators. In the media Let us resent: the Americans are strangling a country that is rising from its knees. Sha (tkachev) will throw in, they say we need to beat off our Crimea, bear with us, Imperials. Let's break through, in short. Vladimir Putin: Elvira? Nabiulina: Let's freeze. Let's raise the rate, like the fight against speculators. Sechin: Elvira, the current is after the deal, not before, ok? Shuvalov, Gref: Yes, she understood! Vladimir Putin: Ok. So we will do it. If, at the peak, we will merge Yudaeva and announce loudly, all the same she is not good at macroeconomics, and we will simply troll Elvira. Sechin: Can we merge it? We will not get rid of Yudaeva, I'm afraid. Vladimir Putin: No, you cannot drain, we will increase the panic, we will sign our own stupidity. Dima, your mother, wake up! Dmitry Medvedev: Who is here? I am not sleeping! "
                4. Spring fluff
                  Spring fluff 5 September 2021 17: 13
                  +1
                  gorgeous! live broadcast from the meeting room! +100500 :)
              2. Flooding
                Flooding 5 September 2021 16: 54
                +2
                Quote: Liam
                RF: The dollar flow instantly dried up and the Central Bank could no longer maintain an artificially low dollar against the ruble

                So you agree with what I wrote above about peg to currency hi
              3. Liam
                Liam 5 September 2021 17: 10
                +2
                It depends what we mean by this. The dollar has nothing to do with money emissions and inflation. If you remember in those years when the authorities were playing games with currency corridors and the ruble against the dollar remained formally stable, inflation in the Russian Federation galloped at 10/15% every year. there is a ruble actually depreciated every year by this amount in relation to all goods and services ... except for the dollar. But this does not happen in a normal economy. So the crash of 2014 just got out these 10/15% of the hidden devaluation of the ruble for 6-7 years. We got out at once. And by the way, since then, the ruble has not been shaking like that anymore, despite other sanctions and the collapse of the barrel. Because the current exchange rate is more or less realistic. And inflation has seriously decreased
              4. Flooding
                Flooding 5 September 2021 17: 32
                0
                Quote: Liam
                So the crash of 2014 is just that 10/15% got out

                I didn’t understand what years did you mean
                2010 - inflation 6,1%
                2012 and 2013 - about 6,5%
                Quote: Liam
                Because the current course is more or less realistic.

                so this is the most interesting. corresponds to what?
              5. Liam
                Liam 5 September 2021 17: 43
                +3
                Quote: Flood
                did not understand what years you meant

                Posh noughties
                Compare tables


                Quote: Flood
                corresponds to what?

                The real balance of power between the dollar and the ruble based on the real economies behind them.
              6. Flooding
                Flooding 5 September 2021 18: 08
                0
                Quote: Liam
                The real balance of power between the dollar and the ruble based on the real economies behind them.

                are you joking?
                Then what should the ratio of the dollar to a certain currency, say, equal to six and a half, tell us?
                and seventy three?
              7. Liam
                Liam 5 September 2021 19: 04
                +2
                Money is the same commodity as any other, and its price is governed by the same law of the market - supply and demand.
                Quote: Flood
                What should the ratio of the dollar to a certain currency, say, equal to six and a half, tell us?
                and seventy three?

                The fact that people who buy it are sure that the purchasing power of 1 dollar is half a half or seven years three times higher than these other currencies. Moreover, it will retain this ability in a year or two, both in Moscow and in Nigeria.
              8. Flooding
                Flooding 5 September 2021 19: 31
                0
                Quote: Liam

                The fact that people who buy it are sure that the purchasing power of 1 dollar is half a half or seven years three times higher than these other currencies. Moreover, it will retain this ability in a year or two, both in Moscow and in Nigeria.

                you allowed simplification once by the comment above
                but the version of the "real layout of economies" did not help you answer a rather simple question
                now you're doing simplification number two
                it turns out that the Chinese are sure that buying dollars for 6,5 yuan is that its purchasing power of the dollar is 6,5 times higher than that of the yuan
                Indians, buying a dollar at 73 rupees, think the same
                on this and the exchange rate is held, it turns out
                and real economies have nothing to do with it
              9. Liam
                Liam 5 September 2021 19: 42
                +1
                Quote: Flood
                turns
                and real economies have nothing to do with it

                This confidence is not based on the holy spirit, but on the real economies that are behind currencies, at the level of inflation in these economies, for how many times and how often people have been thrown by various monetary reforms in these countries (which are the bankruptcy of the country ), how many defaults were announced, the stability and type of political system and, accordingly, the propensity for political intervention in the economy a la currency corridors, and many other very specific things
              10. Flooding
                Flooding 5 September 2021 20: 00
                -1
                Quote: Liam
                This confidence is not based on holy spirit, but on real economies that are behind currencies, at the level of inflation in these economies, how many times and how often people were thrown by various monetary reforms in these countries

                armed with this knowledge, explain the ratio of the exchange rates of the Russian ruble to the Moldovan leu 4/1
                thanks in advance.
              11. Liam
                Liam 5 September 2021 20: 20
                +1
                Easy. The ratio of the ruble and the leu (as partially convertible currencies) is indirect and is established by their ratio with the dollar and the euro. The lei (unlike the ruble) is a fairly stable currency. Over the past 15-20 years, its exchange rate against the dollar / euro has changed, God forbid, interest by 20%. Mainly because foreign exchange earnings from migrants in the country are huge compared to the volume of the economy. Inflation is moderate, stable economic growth, again a huge inflow of international investment from the IMF, WB, EU in the form of loans and grants, etc.
              12. Flooding
                Flooding 5 September 2021 20: 23
                +1
                Quote: Liam
                Inflation is moderate, stable economic growth, again a huge inflow of international investment from the IMF, WB, EU in the form of loans and grants, etc.

                Thank you.
                made fun, my friend
                I am writing from Chisinau
                so what about real economies?
                real money of migrant workers?

                all the best. it's time and honor to know
              13. Liam
                Liam 5 September 2021 20: 28
                -1
                Quote: Flood
                I am writing from Chisinau

                So what? .can refute? The inflation rate, the annual multi-billion dollar inflow of migrant and international Eurodollars, the stable exchange rate of the leu towards them for decades, economic growth? What exactly is wrong with this?
              14. Flooding
                Flooding 5 September 2021 20: 44
                0
                Quote: Liam
                annual multi-billion dollar receipts of migrant and international eurodollars

                What does this have to do with the real economy?
                do you consider them an investment?
                they are earned abroad for services produced abroad. and taxes from them are paid to foreign budgets
                from January to December 2020, 1486,74 million dollars were transferred to the Moldovan guest workers to the country (a billion and a half billion)
                yes, they help keep the pants down for my families. it is a fact.
                for this money they bring used cars from abroad. oh yes, real economies!
                the real economy is, first of all, products produced domestically!
                the only sphere that thrives on guest workers is the construction of residential high-rise buildings
                Quote: Liam
                Over the past 15-20 years, its exchange rate against the dollar / euro has changed, God forbid, by 20%.

                in 2005 the dollar was worth about 12,5 lei
                now over 18
                that is, the leu has fallen in price by about 45%
                Quote: Liam
                multibillion-dollar receipts of migrant and international eurodollars

                It's a shame to write such things without having accurate information
                Moldova is not Poland
                yes, it receives various tranches. not by billions - by tens of millions
                but this is not direct investment in the economy, in production
                they are allocated for certain programs and obligations of an organizational or social nature

                that's all, that's enough
              15. Liam
                Liam 5 September 2021 21: 30
                0
                Cunning.



                You can calculate the interest yourself. As for the dollar. In 2005 it cost from 12,5 to 12,8, and today it is 17,8. It is worth noting that in 2005 the dollar was very weak. For 1 euro they gave 1,35 dollars. And now -1,15. The dollar is not a monolith either.
                So, taking this into account, the leu has depreciated by 30% in 15 years. What kind of somersaults the ruble has endured over these 15 years, you yourself know.

                As for the rest ... The construction of high-rise buildings is a huge motor for manufacturers of building materials, transport, furniture makers, etc., etc., for the people who work in them, and the fact that these companies and employees pay taxes to the budget. And helping families is the same mechanism, because that families spend this money again on food, clothes, buying everything and everything necessary for life, on health in the end, that is, all this money again goes into the economy, salaries and taxes.
                Also, a literate person should correlate all these many billions with the size of the country's economy. And then he will easily understand that in terms of specific weight they are not inferior to the oil barrel receipts of Russia. That's really .. People are our oil in the literal sense.
                When such basic things are not clear ... you can only regret
              16. Flooding
                Flooding 5 September 2021 21: 35
                0
                Quote: Liam
                When such basic things are not clear ... you can only regret

                I refuted your words at your request
                so pity won't help
                you can further develop the idea of ​​how billions of guest workers have made the economy of Moldova stable
                not noticing at the same time that you did not give an intelligible answer as to how the exchange rates are formed
                started with the ratio of economies, ended up with guest workers
                Can you imagine how the economy of Tajikistan has blossomed from your words now?
              17. Liam
                Liam 5 September 2021 21: 48
                -1
                Quote: Flood
                an intelligible answer, how the exchange rates are formed

                I can note that this can happen for two reasons. Either the answer is wrong ... or the person who asks for various reasons is unable to understand it. There are many reasons and they are different. As I understand it, you are interested in why the ruble is a disproportionately larger economy than the Moldovan one, 4 times weaker than the leu in relation to the euro / dollar.
                This is due to the monetary policies of the countries. The money supply (printed money in relation to GDP) in the Russian economy is slightly higher than the Moldovan lei. With a GDP of about 100 trillion, about 50 trillion rubles are printed in Russia. In Moldova, with a GDP of 200 billion, printed about 30 billion lei, which a priori makes the ruble as a unit weaker than the leu.
                We have already discussed why the ruble is so wobbly
              18. Flooding
                Flooding 5 September 2021 21: 56
                0
                Quote: Liam
                As I understand it, you are interested in why the ruble, which is a disproportionately larger economy than the Moldovan one, is 4 times weaker than the leu in relation to the euro / dollar.
                This is due to the monetary policies of the countries

                once again on the example of the Japanese yen, please
              19. Liam
                Liam 5 September 2021 22: 11
                0
                Quote: Flood
                once again on the example of the Japanese yen

                And about the Mongolian tugrik?) We still have a discussion and not a one-sided educational program. You can try to refute something from what I have said. It is desirable with figures and not your own theories
              20. Flooding
                Flooding 5 September 2021 22: 33
                0
                Quote: Liam
                We still have a discussion and not a one-sided educational program

                and you do not suffer from modesty
                I, on the contrary, believe that I have to teach you the obvious things
                but don't say it out loud
                because upbringing
                Quote: Liam
                You can yourself try to refute something from what I said

                be careful
                and remember the multibillion-dollar receipts from guest workers and the 20% reduction in the cost of leu in 20 years
                Quote: Liam
                And about the Mongolian tugrik?)

                I promise not to burden you with such difficult questions anymore
                or is the theory of multiple assumptions deadlocked?
          2. Flooding
            Flooding 5 September 2021 22: 05
            0
            Quote: Liam
            With a GDP of about 100 trillion in Russia, about 50 trillion rubles were printed. In Moldova, with a GDP of 200 billion, about 30 billion lei were printed. This a priori makes the ruble as a unit weaker than the lei

            this a priori speaks of the thoughtlessness of your words
            because the conclusion follows from them: the less the better
            but what are the actual needs of the economy?
            after all, the money supply is obliged to turn around in it for the exchange of services, goods, etc.
            silence about needs
            a priori, it is more stable, because its total volume of GDP as a percentage is less than the ruble
            and how much does the economy need? more or less?
          3. Liam
            Liam 5 September 2021 22: 20
            +1
            Quote: Flood

            this a priori speaks of the thoughtlessness of your words

            This a priori says that in macroeconomics you will excuse me, but you do not understand anything.
            Quote: Flood
            because the conclusion follows from them: the less the better

            It depends on how to dispose of them.
            Quote: Flood
            and how much does the economy need? more or less?

            Depends on what kind of economy. If there will be a lot of export-oriented rubles. Because there is a special devaluation. There is such a temptation. We sold goods for 1 dollar, and earned 30 or 50 rubles instead of 60 rubles. Only this means inflation and an unstable currency.
            And when a country lives on imports like Moldova, the opposite is true.
          4. Flooding
            Flooding 5 September 2021 22: 35
            0
            Quote: Liam
            This a priori says that in macroeconomics you will excuse me, but you do not understand anything.

            don't wag.
            I wrote exactly what followed from your words
            what does my understanding or misunderstanding have to do with it?
            I did not expound my view, but criticized your
          5. Flooding
            Flooding 5 September 2021 22: 41
            0
            Quote: Liam
            .If there will be a lot of export-oriented rubles. Because there is a special devaluation. There is such a temptation. We sold goods for 1 dollar, and earned 30 or 50 rubles instead of 60 rubles. Only this means inflation and an unstable currency.

            so less is needed to avoid inflation?
            decipher your gibberish please
    4. Liam
      Liam 5 September 2021 21: 50
      -1
      Quote: Flood
      ended up as guest workers

      Comparison of the Russian and Moldovan currencies and how they add up is like your initiative)
  • Flooding
    Flooding 5 September 2021 21: 50
    +1
    Quote: Liam
    Also, a literate person should correlate all these many billions with the size of the country's economy, and then he will easily understand that in terms of specific weight they are not inferior to the oil barrel receipts of Russia.

    are you joking?
    you write nightmare-ignorant things
    one and a half billion transfers from guest workers, who at this time do not produce anything in their country, do not transfer a penny to the budget, it turns out that they are a catalyst for the economy
    because this money is used to buy food and clothing for their children
    because in a year they bring 7-8-year-old foreign cars, the money for which again remains abroad
    and because they make a down payment in a couple of years
  • Liam
    Liam 5 September 2021 22: 07
    -1
    Quote: Flood
    write nightmare-ignorant things
    one and a half billion transfers from guest workers

    Well, let's see which of us is nightmarishly ignorant ...
    Moldova's GDP is $ 10 billion. One and a half billion transfers (and this is only what goes through banks / Westernunions. What goes in cash through couriers, no one can calculate. But exactly at least the same amount) is at least 15% (but in reality 25-30% of GDP, and this money goes entirely to the country's economy.
    More ..
    The draft law on the state budget for 2021 is based on economic growth of 4,7%, an increase in exports by 12,6% and imports by 14,3%.


    Deputy Prime Minister of Finance Sergei Pushkutsa noted that 2021 is expected to be the year of compensation for losses incurred in 2020.


    According to the project, state budget revenues will amount to 41,4 billion lei, which is 4,2 billion lei more than in the 2020 state budget. The increase in revenue is due to an increase in tax and fee revenue and incoming grants
    .
    The revenue side of the budget is 2 billion euros. One and a half billion in migrant money, how much will it be? 75%? In fact, even more, plus international hundreds of millions every year.
    The share of oil barrels in Russia is not more than these figures, but even less.
  • Flooding
    Flooding 5 September 2021 22: 27
    0
    Quote: Liam
    Moldova's GDP - $ 10 billion

    12.Why round off so hard
    Quote: Liam
    One and a half billion transfers (and this is only what goes through banks / Westernunions. What goes in cash through couriers, no one can count.

    but you somehow manage to count
    Quote: Liam
    exactly at least the same amount

    why, a curious reader might ask?
    don't ask, just take it on faith
    Quote: Liam
    this money goes entirely into the country's economy.

    yeah. it is money earned outside the country that is not taxed.
    it is a kind of compensation for the value that these same people would have earned in the country.
    yes, the amount is higher. but its value must be viewed precisely through the prism of unreceived salaries within the country.
    Quote: Liam
    an increase in exports by 12,6% and imports by 14,3%.

    what is it?
    and I'll tell you what kind of imbalance it is
    called a negative trade balance
    it has reached a very significant level in Moldova
    since the country is import dependent
    and not least due to the fact that not finding decent work in the country, citizens produce goods abroad
    Quote: Liam
    The increase in revenue is associated with an increase in tax and levy revenues and grants received.

    well, think about an increase in income "from incoming grants"
    let's pretend we didn't notice
  • Liam
    Liam 5 September 2021 22: 48
    -1
    Convert to euros and it will be 10. The main income is in euros)

    Quote: Flood
    why, a curious reader might ask?

    Because I know exactly how it happens. Go to Leusheny or Sculena, talk to any customs officer working with couriers on buses to Europe and you will learn a lot.
    Quote: Flood
    tax-free money earned outside the country.

    You have gaps not only in macroeconomics. If someone sends you 1 euro from abroad, you exchange it for 20 lei and go to buy a liter of milk, for example. The price of milk already includes VAT, which is transferred to the budget. his 20 lei of income from which he will pay the income. Another part will go to the salary of the saleswoman with which the income and social benefits will be paid. The other part will go to the milk tanker who will pay taxes again. And of course also the farmer, whom the state will also not deprive of its attention. And such a makar almost all of your euros from abroad will go into the pocket of the state. The state, by tradition, steals some of the taxes. But the rest will be spent on schools for your children, pensions for your parents, roads for your car, hospitals for your treatment.
    Quote: Flood
    since the country is import dependent

    It is normal when the country has a lot more money than the goods and services that the local economy is capable of producing.
    Quote: Flood
    citizens produce goods abroad

    And they do well. Otherwise, they would vegetate in poverty in their own country. And so they themselves live with dignity and also keep the country's economy afloat with transfers. Plus, by leaving, they help those who remain to raise their salaries. You know, the lack of labor leads to this)
    Quote: Flood
    increase in income "from incoming grants"

    And what's wrong with that?
  • Flooding
    Flooding 5 September 2021 22: 53
    0
    Quote: Liam
    You have gaps not only in macroeconomics

    ask
    you are an unbearable conversationalist
    why are you suddenly convinced of your intellectual superiority?
    despite having written so many nonsense
  • Liam
    Liam 5 September 2021 23: 31
    0
    Quote: Flood
    ask

    Seară bună)
  • Offliner
    Offliner 7 September 2021 21: 46
    0
    Let's count differently. How many times has the salary in rubles increased in 20 years? And in lei? And we will count it in S. I really don’t know, I will not look.
    Yes, it has been proven that normal gaster generates income where they work, not their historical homeland. Population aging, social Payments ... If only the disabled population remains, transfers will not save you.
  • Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 5 September 2021 17: 56
    +2
    Quote: Liam
    .Because the current course is more or less realistic.And inflation has dropped dramaticallyь

    Are you serious now, and the rise in prices does not accelerate inflation?
    You don't have to be a visionary to understand how the course will skate after the elections, which is now being held from the last ...
  • Liam
    Liam 5 September 2021 18: 07
    +1
    Quote: Stroporez
    Quote: Liam
    .Because the current exchange rate is more or less realistic. And inflation has seriously decreased

    Are you serious now, and the rise in prices does not accelerate inflation?

    The rise in prices is inflation. Inflation has decreased, which means that prices are not rising as fast as before, not that prices are falling. When prices fall, this is called deflation. And this is the death of the economy.
  • Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 5 September 2021 18: 28
    +1
    Quote: Liam
    .When prices fall, it's called deflation. And that's the death of the economy.

    The death of the economy occurs when it is run by stupid economists.
    No deflationary collapse will come from price reductions, but with galloping inflation and freezing of salaries and social payments, the economy may be sucked, but people will die.
  • Liam
    Liam 5 September 2021 19: 08
    +1
    People will die faster from deflation, because under it the enterprises where they work and receive wages will also go bankrupt, and they will have nothing to buy goods at low prices)
  • Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 5 September 2021 17: 14
    +1
    Quote: Flood
    So you agree with what I wrote above about peg to currency

    Rather to speculation. Let me remind you in 1998 the rate soared 2 times - a default was declared, the same thing happened in 2016, but the default did not happen, they just filled our hand.
  • Liam
    Liam 5 September 2021 17: 19
    +2
    Quote: Stroporez
    Rather to speculation. Let me remind you in 1998 the rate soared 2 times - a default was declared, the same thing happened in 2016, but the default did not happen, they just filled our hand.

    Come on. In 1998, a barrel was worth 10 (ten) dollars and Russia had no reserves to pay the bills. In 2014 Russia had a trillion dollars in reserves after ten years of a barrel of 100.
  • Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 5 September 2021 17: 31
    +1
    Quote: Liam
    Come on. In 1998, a barrel was worth 10 (ten) dollars and Russia had no reserves to pay the bills. In 2014 Russia had a trillion dollars in reserves after ten years of a barrel of 100.

    I know absolutely for sure that the ruble exchange rate is "tied" exclusively "to the wish list of the authorities and the oligarchy associated with it!
    All international experts say that the ruble is undervalued by 20-30%, but who cares?
    If we consider the actions of the Central Bank and the state from the point of view of statehood, then nothing is clear, but from the point of view of the speculators, renamed into the joint stock company of the Russian Federation, everything is very practical with a constant profit.
    Everything is worse and at the same time easier than we think.
  • ja-ja-vw
    ja-ja-vw 5 September 2021 14: 21
    -1
    Quote: Flood
    otherwise the ruble will rapidly fall in price

    we have a strange national currency


    I get the impression that someone

    earns on speculation in foreign exchange and national currency. and this is definitely not us ..
    the "non-brothers" will have better
  • Firelake
    Firelake 5 September 2021 08: 35
    0
    You are an adherent of GCD.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 5 September 2021 09: 03
      -4
      Quote: FireLake
      You are an adherent of GCD.

      If this is addressed to me, then you are wrong. Fedorov, like Starikov, in their activities does not rise above the third priority of management. They do not go beyond the dominant concept of the life of society. I'm not on my way with them.
      1. Liam
        Liam 5 September 2021 09: 14
        +7
        Quote: Boris55
        Fedorov, like Starikov, in their activities does not rise above the third priority of management. They do not go beyond the dominant concept of the life of society. I'm not on my way with them.

        Oh my God.
        .- Yes, I do not agree.

        - With whom? With Engels or with Kautsky?

        "With both of them," Sharikov replied. "
  • Sergey1964
    Sergey1964 5 September 2021 08: 52
    +4
    Quote: Boris55
    So far, we can print rubles exactly as much as currencies have earned and not a single kopeck more.

    Not true. The CBR can print as many rubles as it wants. True, as already noted
    Quote: Flood
    the ruble will fall in price rapidly

    Actually, the ruble is already depreciating rather quickly against the dollar. The price has dropped approximately 3 times since 2000.
    Quote: Boris55
    And there it is not far away for your printing press.

    As I say, Russia has its own printing press. And she uses this machine quite actively. In 2000, the dollar was worth 25 rubles, and now it's already 75.))
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 5 September 2021 09: 06
      -5
      Quote: Sergey1964
      the dollar was worth 25 rubles, and now it's already 75

      Who benefits?
      To us, so that we could print more rubles?
      Should they buy more of our resources for less dollars?

      ps
      The cost price of a 100 dollar bill is ~ 7-10 cents.
      1. Sergey1964
        Sergey1964 5 September 2021 09: 59
        +2
        Quote: Boris55
        Who benefits?

        Do not know. On the one hand, it is personally beneficial to me, since I keep my savings mainly in dollars, and I bought them (at different times) at the rate of 30..55 rubles per dollar. On the other hand, I receive my salary in rubles, which depreciate faster than my salary grows.
        Quote: Boris55
        To us, so that we could print more rubles?

        So it is you (in the plural, so "you" with a lowercase letter) are typing rubles? Excuse my curiosity, are you an employee of the Central Bank of Russia or Goznak?

        By the way, I forgot to comment.
        Quote: Boris55
        So that we would not be trampled, we re-equipped the army - we defended ourselves from the external enemy. Now, as the Minister of Defense said, we need to deal with the internal enemy.

        1. I would like to remind you that Yeltsin handed over the reins of government to Putin on December 31, 1999. 21 years have passed since then. What prevented you from dealing with the "internal enemy" during this time? Here the USSR in just 20 years (1941-1961) managed
        - to win the hardest war (during which, by the way, we had to re-equip the army repeatedly, the Red Army of 1941 and 1945 are different armies)
        - to restore the economy destroyed by the war and destroyed (physically destroyed!) cities
        - re-equip the army a few more times (the Soviet army of 1961 and 1945 is not even different armies, these are different eras of the armed forces)
        - launch the first astronaut in the history of mankind
        - ...
        Do you see how much can be done not even in 21 years, but in 20 years? So the current pace is not impressive, to put it mildly.
        2. I'm completely confused. Either you print rubles, then (again, you) re-equip the army, then (again, you) are going to deal with internal enemies ... Are you a mnogostannik? In the morning - in the Central Bank or Goznak, from lunchtime - in the military-industrial complex, after the end of the working day - in the FSB?
        1. Denis812
          Denis812 7 September 2021 18: 22
          +1
          Please do not confuse the management styles and the standard of living of the population then and now.
          If Putin took all the power, that he really could and would become a kind of new Stalin, then perhaps the results would have been different, only that the standard of living of 100% would be an order of magnitude lower than in the late USSR and even more so now ...
          And many would not have survived, for such a power as Stalin's was held, among other things, by a repressive apparatus. It is unlikely that we would discuss all this crap with you here.
          1. Sergey1964
            Sergey1964 8 September 2021 08: 09
            0
            Quote: Denis812
            If Putin took all the power that he actually could and would become a kind of new Stalin

            I couldn't. Comrade Stalin made a career and became as a person in completely different conditions. And Comrade Stalin gnawed the road to power with his teeth in conditions of fierce competition with other comrades of the same kind - and did not receive power on a silver platter.
            Quote: Denis812
            Please do not confuse the management styles and the standard of living of the population then and now.

            Please do not forget that in the early 2000s Russia was literally a golden shower of free money due to the unprecedented rise in hydrocarbon prices. I remember that in 2005 or so, when the price of oil soared to $ 50, Kudrin was crying on TV - the treasury was choking with the influx of foreign exchange, and this is bad (I remember why it is bad, I don’t understand). And then oil flooded to $ 150, and now - $ 71. Who prevented from buying ready-made "turnkey" production with this money (as the USSR did during industrialization)? Some economists have suggested this. No, they decided to build an "energy superpower" (which in Russian means "raw material appendage").
            And do not forget that in 1945 cities and industrial enterprises with infrastructure in the most developed part of the country were physically destroyed. In 2000, both the cities and the buildings of factories and plants, and the infrastructure were intact.
            And there was no nuclear missile parity in 1945, and the Cold War was already unfolding. And in 2000, the nuclear-missile parity was already there, but the Cold War was gone, the international climate for Russia was quite favorable.
      2. Spring fluff
        Spring fluff 5 September 2021 12: 29
        -1
        everyone benefits. Our production is mainly export - raw materials, we sell it conditionally for dollars (it is possible for euros, but at least for any tugriks, there are 2 main questions - the exchange rate of this currency to the ruble and its reliability - so that the tugrik, when needed, is not turned into). therefore, the proceeds are in foreign currency, the costs are mainly in rubles. the higher the tugrik rate, the greater the difference between the selling price and the costs. the owner of the production is profitable. the masters of production and power have long and closely merged with us. therefore, production costs are not only the salary of workers, but also the costs of taxes that go to payments to public sector employees, pensioners, etc. (they are all, as it were, irreplaceable janitors at one huge enterprise in Russia). The previous sentence was written not in the sense that taxes in some cases can not be considered production costs, but in the sense that our taxes are subordinate to socio-political logic, earned a lot - you need to share more with whoever needs to be or needed by the country - again gone. now 10 thousand will be thrown on many.
        the surplus of earned and saved on costs goes to money-boxes. private traders have their own money-boxes, the state has a stabilization fund / gold reserves. all the money boxes are mainly foreign currency (the government money box is Gold and the Central Bank's foreign exchange reserves - $ 500+ billion).
        "partners" are also profitable - we are not at war, we supply raw materials for zeroes in a computer (money is now mostly non-cash).
        a little "for the personnel of the Russian Federation" is not profitable - salary (including pensions, etc.) in the constantly falling ruble, but it seems that the bulk is normal.
    2. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 5 September 2021 09: 27
      +2
      Quote: Sergey1964
      In 2000, the dollar was worth 25 rubles, and now it is 75.

      And I remember in 1998 the dollar exchange rate of 6 non-denominated rubles and the prime minister chasing a "kinder surprise". Today the exchange rate is 000, 72 rubles, and the "kinder surprise" is still in the same place, in power ...
      So what?
      The printing press of Russia works for the salaries and pensions of citizens, so inflation in our country simply EATS all our income and devalues ​​our savings ...
  • Revival
    Revival 6 September 2021 00: 50
    +1
    Accept the amendment, it helps from everything ...
  • Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 5 September 2021 07: 55
    -9
    Quote: Professor
    How to at least try to catch up with the United States?

    Elementary. Pay programmers and electronics engineers like in Silicon Valley in order to compete in working conditions with Google and Amazon, and specialists will pour into the military-industrial complex, creating competition for the bourgeoisie. In the meantime, a Russian programmer can work without leaving home for the same bourgeois, indirectly strengthening THEIR defenses.

    Why pay, if you can plant drugs and plant, and the hipster women will work for free in the zone, so long as they don't put real prisoners in with them, who will make a rooster out of him at the time of the rooster.
    1. Professor
      Professor 5 September 2021 08: 52
      +1
      Quote: Narak-zempo
      Why pay, if you can plant drugs and plant, and the hipster women will work for free in the zone, so long as they don't put real prisoners in with them, who will make a rooster out of him at the time of the rooster.

      Bonded labor does not pay off. Proven.
      1. Vol4ara
        Vol4ara 5 September 2021 10: 31
        0
        Quote: Professor
        Quote: Narak-zempo
        Why pay, if you can plant drugs and plant, and the hipster women will work for free in the zone, so long as they don't put real prisoners in with them, who will make a rooster out of him at the time of the rooster.

        Bonded labor does not pay off. Proven.

        Gulag, yeah
        1. Professor
          Professor 5 September 2021 12: 20
          -2
          Quote: Vol4ara
          Quote: Professor
          Quote: Narak-zempo
          Why pay, if you can plant drugs and plant, and the hipster women will work for free in the zone, so long as they don't put real prisoners in with them, who will make a rooster out of him at the time of the rooster.

          Bonded labor does not pay off. Proven.

          Gulag, yeah

          Both the Gulag and the Roman Empire and Serfdom.
          1. Vol4ara
            Vol4ara 5 September 2021 14: 52
            +3
            Quote: Professor
            Quote: Vol4ara
            Quote: Professor
            Quote: Narak-zempo
            Why pay, if you can plant drugs and plant, and the hipster women will work for free in the zone, so long as they don't put real prisoners in with them, who will make a rooster out of him at the time of the rooster.

            Bonded labor does not pay off. Proven.

            Gulag, yeah

            Both the Gulag and the Roman Empire and Serfdom.

            Inapplicable analogies. Roman Empire collapsed due to slavery? She grew up in slavery, just like the United States, and when it falls apart, slavery will not be the cause.
            Ps: modern bondage before banks is the same slavery, only more loyal and with a wrapper of "freedom and democratic values"
            1. And Us Rat
              And Us Rat 5 September 2021 20: 45
              0
              Quote: Vol4ara
              modern bondage to banks

              This is your personal choice. For example, I don't owe anything to any bank. And there are millions like me.
              "The collective farm is voluntary" ©
              wink
        2. Sergey1964
          Sergey1964 5 September 2021 12: 49
          +3
          Quote: Vol4ara
          Gulag, yeah

          The fact that the slave system collapsed everywhere. And from personal experience - an urgent service in the SA in 1986-88. Four young soldiers + a sergeant from the grandfathers (as an overseer) in half a day do the work that two civilian men will do in an hour. Why? And because neither the soldiers nor the sergeant wants to return to the barracks before lunch - otherwise they (including the sergeant-overseer) will immediately be given a new task.
          1. Vol4ara
            Vol4ara 5 September 2021 15: 01
            +1
            Quote: Sergey1964
            Quote: Vol4ara
            Gulag, yeah

            The fact that the slave system collapsed everywhere. And from personal experience - an urgent service in the SA in 1986-88. Four young soldiers + a sergeant from the grandfathers (as an overseer) in half a day do the work that two civilian men will do in an hour. Why? And because neither the soldiers nor the sergeant wants to return to the barracks before lunch - otherwise they (including the sergeant-overseer) will immediately be given a new task.

            4 fighters and a sergeant do the work for free, 4 fighters and a sergeant can transform into 4 slaves and an overseer and will be able to build pyramids with their bare hands for free, for the sake of their lives and stew. Of course, peasants on a salary can also build pyramids, but money is somehow more pleasant to keep with you. The slave system collapsed, just as the republican and imperial Rome and democratic Greece collapsed, just as the non-slave empires of the late Middle Ages, the non-slave Soviet Union, etc.
            1. Liam
              Liam 5 September 2021 15: 09
              +3
              Quote: Vol4ara
              Of course, men on a salary can also build pyramids, but it's somehow more pleasant to keep money with you

              Pyramids and were built by men on a paycheck
              1. Vol4ara
                Vol4ara 5 September 2021 15: 35
                0
                Quote: Liam
                Quote: Vol4ara
                Of course, men on a salary can also build pyramids, but it's somehow more pleasant to keep money with you

                Pyramids and were built by men on a paycheck

                I'm not talking about Egyptian
                1. Sergey1964
                  Sergey1964 5 September 2021 16: 05
                  +3
                  Quote: Vol4ara
                  I'm not talking about Egyptian

                  And what about? By the way, doesn't it seem strange to you that in quite slave-owning Ancient Egypt, high-tech objects (pyramids) were commissioned to be made not by slaves, but by peasants on a salary?
                  Quote: Vol4ara
                  The slave system collapsed, just like it collapsed

                  how feudalism and socialism collapsed. But capitalism has not collapsed, but, on the contrary, is flourishing.

                  By the way about
                  Quote: Vol4ara
                  4 fighters and a sergeant can transform into 4 slaves and an overseer

                  1. The overseer must be paid money.
                  2. Slaves must be guarded so as not to run away. That is, you also have to pay money to the security. So we add at least two more sergeants to our sergeant so that they work in shifts.
                  3. Slaves will break tools as soon as possible (be it a shovel or a PC operating system), just to get some free time.
                  And here is a man who works for money
                  - will not run away anywhere
                  - will take care of tools, because every simple one beats him
                  - and he doesn't need an overseer.
                  1. Vol4ara
                    Vol4ara 5 September 2021 17: 55
                    0
                    Quote: Sergey1964
                    And what about? By the way, doesn't it seem strange to you that in quite slave-owning Ancient Egypt, high-tech objects (pyramids) were commissioned to be made not by slaves, but by peasants on a salary?

                    About the Mayan pyramids. It does not seem strange to me that high-tech pyramids were not entrusted to stupid slaves, instead of pyramids they were entrusted with quarries for pyramids.

                    Quote: Sergey1964
                    how feudalism and socialism collapsed. But capitalism has not collapsed, but, on the contrary, is flourishing.

                    As far as I remember, there was capitalism in RI and there were no slaves, and this did not prevent it from turning into the USSR. Capitalism is also slavery, only instead of the overseer of banks and corporations. I do not argue that in the era of capitalism there are conditions in order to become an overseer yourself and the degree of freedom is generally higher, but if you do not pay off the loan, you will still be thrown out of the house into the cold
                    Quote: Sergey1964
                    1. The overseer must be paid money.
                    2. Slaves must be guarded so as not to run away. That is, you also have to pay money to the security. So we add at least two more sergeants to our sergeant so that they work in shifts.
                    3. Slaves will break tools as soon as possible (be it a shovel or a PC operating system), just to get some free time

                    Tell this to the construction managers of the Belomor Canal, Volgo-Don, the Moscow Canal, a dozen different hydroelectric power plants, Norilsk together with the plants, BAM, the state of Rome
                    1. Sergey1964
                      Sergey1964 5 September 2021 18: 10
                      +2
                      Quote: Vol4ara
                      Capitalism is also slavery, only instead of the overseer of banks and corporations.

                      No. Capitalism is when an employee sells his labor to an employer. He does not sell himself, but his labor - and in a predetermined amount for a pre-negotiated price.
                      Quote: Vol4ara
                      Tell this to the construction managers of the Belomor Canal, Volgo-Don, the Moscow Canal, a dozen different hydroelectric power plants, Norilsk together with the factories, BAM

                      Only after the aforementioned leaders provide a complete comparative calculation - how much the mentioned construction sites cost when using slave labor, and how much the same construction sites cost when using hired labor. But instead of the leaders mentioned above, you can provide a calculation. Costs, performance and all that.
                      Quote: Vol4ara
                      to the state of Rome

                      Did you skip History at school, or what ?! At the beginning of the New Era, Rome abandoned slavery and switched to a more progressive form - serfdom. Now I specifically checked it on Wikipedia - no, sclerosis did not disappoint me
                      ===
                      The transition to serfdom began already in the XNUMXnd-XNUMXrd centuries, when a new type of slave appeared - casati. The owners of the estates endowed such a slave with a plot of land, and he, living far from the masters of a more or less independent life, enjoyed greater rights than ever before: he could marry, he was actually given much greater freedom to dispose of the products of his labor ; he had, in essence, his own household. In fact, according to their position, the casati slaves were no longer so much slaves as serfs.
                      ===
                    2. Vol4ara
                      Vol4ara 5 September 2021 18: 34
                      -2
                      Quote: Sergey1964
                      No. Capitalism is when an employee sells his labor to an employer. He does not sell himself, but his labor - and in a predetermined amount for a pre-negotiated price.

                      He sells his labor to the employer at the price offered by the employer, because in most cases the price of the employee is purely his wet dreams, and even the agreed amount is adjusted very easily by a system of fines, etc. that capitalism is a mutual guarantee, dumping is unprofitable to anyone, but a simultaneous increase in prices and a decrease in the percentage of wages is beneficial to everyone, by the way, the trend is very evident, in the service sector some 10 years ago the% was equal to 35-40, now it is 25-30 with a tendency to 18 -20 and it turns out that if you leave one employer for another, then in 99% of cases you will see the same conditions.
                      It turns out that capitalism is the semblance of freedom of action, after choice 2 - either you accept the rules of the game or go to the homeless.
                      Quote: Sergey1964
                      Only after the aforementioned leaders provide a complete comparative calculation - how much the mentioned construction sites cost when using slave labor, and how much the same construction sites cost when using hired labor. But instead of the leaders mentioned above, you can provide a calculation. Costs, performance and all that.

                      I am not interested in this, I saw the numbers somewhere, but I don’t remember anymore, however you can pay me and then I will look for information for you.
                      Quote: Sergey1964
                      Did you skip History at school, or what ?! At the beginning of the New Era, Rome abandoned slavery and switched to a more progressive form - serfdom.

                      Yeah: D and almost immediately disintegrated: DD was built, it was still slaves
                    3. And Us Rat
                      And Us Rat 5 September 2021 21: 05
                      0
                      Quote: Vol4ara
                      what if you leave from one employer to another

                      You apparently did not understand the main essence of capitalism, namely, the freedom not to have an employer. For example, I have not had it since I was 30, and I already cannot imagine how it is to work for a salary and listen to someone's instructions.
                      Many specialists in the West, having reached a certain level, become self-employed, or at least can afford to get a job on their own terms, under personal contracts.
                      And if you are not an expert in some area, but "bring it and serve it" in adulthood, then this is exclusively your fault, and the reckoning with poor employment conditions is quite fair.
                      So capitalism itself is not bad, rather its Russian version is bad.
                    4. Vol4ara
                      Vol4ara 5 September 2021 21: 31
                      +1
                      Quote: And Us Rat
                      Quote: Vol4ara
                      what if you leave from one employer to another

                      You apparently did not understand the main essence of capitalism, namely, the freedom not to have an employer. For example, I have not had it since I was 30, and I already cannot imagine how it is to work for a salary and listen to someone's instructions.
                      Many specialists in the West, having reached a certain level, become self-employed, or at least can afford to get a job on their own terms, under personal contracts.
                      And if you are not an expert in some area, but "bring it and serve it" in adulthood, then this is exclusively your fault, and the reckoning with poor employment conditions is quite fair.
                      So capitalism itself is not bad, rather its Russian version is bad.

                      Well, here I am a veterinary neurosurgeon, for work I need a therapist, a room, 2 assistants, an anesthesiologist, the minimum arrangement of the operating room is 5 lemmas, with an arc is another 7, an ultrasound scan for a therapist is 1,5, an X-ray and a digitizer is about 1,5, ideally your own MRI, this is another 70+ for a BU and from 100+ for a new one, and this is a device without installation and premises, but these are wet dreams and can be used by a third party if desired. But for the start there will be enough lamas 15-20, will you lend it? you are a businessman you probably have, only without% please, otherwise you know what the difference is to depend on you, the bank or the employer.
                      Business needs loans, you can probably grow garlic without them, but if you want a business in something high-tech and science-intensive, then the same bondage awaits you as from an employer, only from a bank
                    5. And Us Rat
                      And Us Rat 5 September 2021 21: 49
                      +3
                      Quote: Vol4ara
                      then the same bondage awaits you as from the employer, only from the bank

                      There is such a word - investor, have you heard? Of course, I understand that there are almost none of them in the Russian Federation, but such is the "selyavia". A favorable investment background is the concern of those you elect to rule. request
                      Try to look for funds by crowdfunding, only grammatical PR is needed, well, there is "protection of kitty dogs in the name of peace" or something like that, and no "bondage" fellow
                      Who wants - finds opportunities, and who does not want - finds excuses.
                    6. Sergey1964
                      Sergey1964 6 September 2021 06: 43
                      +1
                      Quote: And Us Rat
                      A favorable investment background is the concern of those you elect to rule.

                      Personally, I didn’t elect, perhaps I didn’t elect Vol4ara either, but that doesn’t change the essence of the matter. I (by the way, not only me - this thought comes from the USSR) believe that it is impossible to jump over the historical stages of development. So "vote - don't vote ..." anyway, under state-monopoly capitalism (in the modern interpretation, it seems, this is called "capitalism of the Latin American model"), the power will be such as is characteristic of the stage of state-monopoly capitalism.

                      I think that in a couple of generations Russia will step by step evolve to a Western-style society. Maybe even earlier - historical processes in the modern era tend to accelerate. True, in Russia the formation of capitalism coincided with the collapse of the empire, and it is not a fact that the process of collapse has already ended. If not completed, we will see the emergence of a set of independent states with their own development trajectories. Someone will slide into feudalism, someone will quickly build a Western-style society ...

                      In general, "we live in an interesting time" (c). However, in Russia, whenever you are born, you will definitely find yourself in an interesting time. ))
                  2. Sergey1964
                    Sergey1964 6 September 2021 06: 19
                    +2
                    Quote: Vol4ara
                    Well, here I am a veterinary neurosurgeon, for work I need (...)

                    In other words, you extend your personal experience to the entire capitalist system. If I understand correctly, you, like me, are Russian.

                    So, capitalism in Russia (so far?) Is in a very early stage of development. As far as I remember Marxism-Leninism (it was included in the mandatory list of disciplines in Soviet times - I never thought that that knowledge would ever be useful to me as a microbiologist), we have already passed the period of initial capital accumulation ("gangster 90s"), passed the period of capital concentration ("mergers and acquisitions"), now state-monopoly capitalism has begun. Marxism-Leninism interpreted this as the final stage of capitalism, but subsequent history has shown that this is by no means the final stage.

                    This I mean that you do not need your personal experience, acquired in a country that is only taking the first steps on the path to capitalism, to extend to the whole of modern capitalism.
              2. Sergey1964
                Sergey1964 6 September 2021 05: 49
                +2
                Quote: Vol4ara
                Sells his labor to the employer at the price offered by the employer

                Well, try hiring workers to renovate your apartment for 1 ruble. Or - loaders to transfer your furniture from apartment to apartment for 1 ruble.
                Quote: Vol4ara
                And not to sell your labor, even if a penny is offered, the hired person often cannot

                Depends on qualifications. A qualified specialist (be it a worker, or an engineer, or a doctor, or any other professional) always has more offers from employers than he can accept. So it is he who dictates to the employer the price for which he is ready to sell his labor.
                Quote: Vol4ara
                capitalism is a mutual guarantee, dumping is unprofitable to anyone, but a simultaneous increase in prices and a decrease in the percentage of wages is beneficial to everyone

                Capitalism is competition. For example, Musk and Bezos agreed to simultaneously cut the salaries of their engineers. And then the insidious Bezos (who, as you know, competes with Musk in the space sphere) took and violated the convention. And the talented engineers of the ingenuous Musk all ran to the insidious Bezos. And now, on all the news, they talk about the fantastic successes of Blue Origin, and Musk sobs at the ruins of SpaceX.
                Again. Capitalism is competition. Moreover, competition is not only for consumers of goods and services, but also for producers of these goods and services. A real example from practice. A friend of mine worked as a welder in a private firm that produces woodworking machines for the local market. The owner of the company began to slowly cut wages. The comrade conspired with several workers, they left the owner en masse and founded their own company. At first - a small one, but when they got to their feet - they lured away the remaining qualified specialists from the previous owner. Now the comrade is a director in a new firm, and the old firm seems to have left the market altogether.
                Quote: Vol4ara
                I'm not interested in this

                That is, your passages about slave labor at the aforementioned construction sites are not based on an assessment of the effectiveness of this labor. Actually, I thought so.
                Quote: Vol4ara
                Yeah: D and almost immediately disintegrated: DD was built, it was still slaves

                Rome - yes, it has disintegrated. Empires are engaged in only this - arise, and then - disintegrate. But we're not talking about empires, but about the slave system, right? The slave system collapsed everywhere. This is a historical fact.
          2. And Us Rat
            And Us Rat 5 September 2021 20: 49
            0
            Quote: Vol4ara
            if you don't pay the loan

            And they force him to take? wassat
          3. Vol4ara
            Vol4ara 5 September 2021 20: 52
            +1
            Quote: And Us Rat
            Quote: Vol4ara
            if you don't pay the loan

            And they force him to take? wassat

            In fact, yes, you cannot buy a home without a loan, and taking a loan is 20 years on the hook.
          4. And Us Rat
            And Us Rat 6 September 2021 09: 09
            -1
            Quote: Vol4ara
            buy

            And who is forcing you to buy something that you can't afford? Does Rothschild personally make you live beyond your means? wassat
            There is such a thing - rental housing. And you can generally get land under some kind of state program and collect a log house for a pittance. And over time, even a European-quality repair in it, and everything from a salary, no loans. fellow
  • Sergey1964
    Sergey1964 5 September 2021 15: 33
    0
    Quote: Vol4ara
    4 fighters and a sergeant do the work for free, 4 fighters and a sergeant can transform into 4 slaves and an overseer and will be able to build pyramids with their bare hands for free, for the sake of their lives and stew.

    You have already been told that
    Quote: Liam
    Pyramids and were built by men on a paycheck

    Moreover, as far as I know, there was also a competition - they didn't take just anyone. And at least once there was a strike - the first in history. Something there, these men were not given a ride - either beer (they, among other things, were supposed to have beer to replenish their fluid losses), or - cosmetics (they were supposed to use cosmetics to protect them from the sun), and they went on strike. After that, they were immediately given a lift to everything required by the labor agreement. The fact is documented by ancient Egyptian officials.

    By the way, they did not build with their bare hands. It used advanced engineering technologies - the pinnacle of the then engineering and design thought.
  • Flooding
    Flooding 5 September 2021 08: 33
    -1
    Quote: Professor
    Pay programmers and electronics engineers like in Silicon Valley in order to compete in working conditions with Google and Amazon, and specialists will pour into the military-industrial complex, creating competition for bourgeois

    which would be unfair to the rest of the citizens of the country
    everyone needs to raise salaries
  • ja-ja-vw
    ja-ja-vw 5 September 2021 11: 49
    -1
    Quote: Professor
    Elementary. Pay programmers and electronics engineers like in Silicon Valley in order to compete in working conditions with Google and Amazon, and specialists will pour into the military-industrial complex, creating competition for the bourgeoisie.

    Well, then the cost of housing should be done as in Silicon Valley
    In May 2020, renting a one-room apartment in San Francisco could cost $ 3450 per month, and in August - $ 3200


    Why only salaries, then? sad
    Call a plumber, clear a blockage in the sewer from $ 1100 per visit.
    ============
    for electronics engineers, no salaries, even a million $ a month, will solve the problem of the lack of a production base. no way.
  • Siberian54
    Siberian54 5 September 2021 12: 05
    +1
    Professor \ Father Lukashenko checked this path-got zmagars under the police-nazi flag.
  • Babay Atasovich
    Babay Atasovich 7 September 2021 05: 57
    +2
    Quote: Professor
    Pay programmers and electronics engineers like in Silicon Valley in order to compete in working conditions with Google and Amazon, and specialists will pour into the military-industrial complex, creating competition for bourgeois

    Will it not come out like football? wink Somehow the "red car" tore up highly paid Canadians. good
  • Denis812
    Denis812 7 September 2021 18: 14
    0
    I would say even less. Pay as in Yandex or Mile ru or Luxoft or EPAM.
    Then the military-industrial complex will be interesting from the point of view of programmers.
    By the way, exactly the same garbage is everywhere.
    Now I have several people from Baikar Makina who are interviewing in Poland for our projects.
    For loot.
    Refrigerator anyway TV wins
  • ViacheslavS
    ViacheslavS 12 September 2021 13: 55
    0
    Yes, it's not at all elementary, in Russia there is an analogue of FAANG, MEAT (Mail, Yandex, Sberbank, Ozon), they pay programmers very well by Russian standards (and before all the Crimean events and the fall of the ruble, when the exchange rate was 34 per dollar, then European standards were paid above average), but in the military-industrial complex, they do not pour, rather on the contrary. And in the American military-industrial complex, programmers are not even close to being paid like in FAANG, my colleague worked at Boeing, they pay at the level of $ 80-120k per year, when in FAANG salaries (of a comparable level) go from $ 200k per year. And again, about Boeing, he does not outsource much in India from a good life, both in development and testing, the fact that software giants and startups with oversized money can pay programmers in the United States, Boeing is already having a hard time with him, then in addition to programmers, an order of magnitude more other engineers.
  • Monar
    Monar 5 September 2021 07: 02
    +2
    It turns out to be a light and unobtrusive, truly tactical aircraft of the battlefield,
    Why all of a sudden? Larger in size than the same F-18. Weight with equipment for thirty. No semblance of stealth. Armor and rescue systems are missing as a class. And such a unit on the battlefield?
  • Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 5 September 2021 07: 04
    +10
    How is it possible to reduce such a gap with the United States and whether it is possible at all is a question for the next decade.

    In the current state - none. Thirty years of cultivation of a consumer society, the manifestation of activity, flexibility of mind and ingenuity only in the field of redistribution of cash flows, the degradation of school education, the absence of mass technical schools ("Young Technician" circles), a limited number of enterprises of modern mechanical engineering and machine-tool building, and much more (even the processing of solid waste and secondary raw materials) does not give the country any chances even to come close to Western technologies for the production of domestic cars, not to mention electronics and production automation.
    What is there to sing praises, if the release of a sufficient number of certain products for the country is an impossible task.
    If the authorities do not understand that the chosen strategy for the development of the country: economy, society, politics, education, medicine is leading to a dead end, from which there will never be a way out, then it makes no sense to talk about any variants of some models.
    ==========
    All that we have been able to achieve in 30 years is ALMOST full use of Soviet developments and single (in small batches) production of high-tech equipment in manual assembly mode. You can swing your checkers, ask a bunch of questions: “Why? Why? How? ”, But when at the household level there is no possibility to recycle the garbage“ created ”by the population, there is nothing to talk about.
    stop Yes, I don't care what it is in Ukraine ...
    hi
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 5 September 2021 07: 17
      +2
      If the authorities do not understand that the chosen development strategy of the countries

      - everything was clear in 1990 - "in all charters of LLP and CJSC -" making a profit "
    2. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 5 September 2021 07: 53
      +3
      If the article contains a bunch of numbers and abbreviations, then it is Damantsev, if it is "terrible and catastrophic" - Skomorokhov. laughing
    3. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 5 September 2021 08: 27
      +2
      Quote: ROSS 42
      If the authorities do not understand that the chosen strategy for the development of the country: economy, society, politics, education, medicine leads to a dead end, from which there will never be a way out, then it makes no sense to talk about any variants of some models.

      20 years is a huge time to understand and fix everything. But a purposeful policy is being pursued to destroy the country, and the main factor / indicator of the success of this policy is not even total plunder, but the unnatural extinction of the indigenous peoples of the Russian Federation.
      Over the past years of Ebno-Putinism, we have been thrown to the sidelines of scientific and technological progress, confidently turning not only into a raw material supplement, but also into a world garbage dump with the cut down and burnt taiga, polluted by the potanny north, with radioactive waste and a catastrophic ecological situation.
      Woe to those who do not want to understand this.
      1. Sergey1964
        Sergey1964 5 September 2021 10: 42
        +2
        Quote: Stroporez
        20 years is a huge period

        I have already given an example to one participant above. In just 20 years, from 1941 to 1961, the USSR won the hardest war, restored physically destroyed (that is, actually turned into ruins) cities and enterprises, achieved nuclear parity with the United States, created military and civilian jet aircraft and nuclear submarines from scratch. brought the first man in history into space ... Twenty years is really a huge time.
        1. Woodman
          Woodman 5 September 2021 10: 57
          +1
          Quote: Sergey1964
          In just 20 years, from 1941 to 1961, the USSR won the hardest war, restored the physically destroyed

          And you can take as an example the periods from 1923 to 1943 and from 1971 to 1991. And all this will also be the USSR. And your example, unfortunately, is more the exception than the rule. Yes, and the hardest war brought no less heavy losses. So it would be better if the USSR avoided participation in this war.
          1. Sergey1964
            Sergey1964 5 September 2021 12: 39
            +3
            Quote: Lesovik
            Or you can take the periods from 1923 to 1943 as an example.

            In 1923, the Civil War had just ended, and the USSR had just been created. The economy is in ruins. In 1943 - the USSR achieved a turning point in the hardest war against a high-tech enemy.
            Quote: Lesovik
            with 1971 on 1991

            Doesn't fit as an example. There the General Secretary changed like gloves. Brezhnev, Andropov, Chernenko (the famous five-year funeral plan for the government), then - Gorbachev. And now we have an era of stability for 21 years in a row, the same General Secretary (sorry, the president - but the essence does not change). However, something was large-scale. BAM, a series of orbital stations (starting with Salyut-1 in 1971 and ending with Mir in 1986), Buran-Energiya ...
            Quote: Lesovik
            So it would be better if the USSR avoided participation in this war.

            Of course. But then all influential European politicians were not up to par - and Chamberlain, and Daladier, and Stalin.
            Quote: Lesovik
            Yes, and the hardest war brought no less heavy losses.

            Yes. But it was about the fact that 21 years is a huge period, although some citizens, out of habit, continue to nod at the difficult legacy of the 90s. However, in the 70s, I remember, some propagandists continued to nod at the heavy legacy of not even the Great Patriotic War, but tsarism. So everything is regular. ))
            1. Woodman
              Woodman 5 September 2021 17: 36
              0
              Quote: Sergey1964
              Not suitable as an example

              I can't say that you convinced me, but in general, your answer commands respect for its argumentation and calmness) hi
    4. Firelake
      Firelake 5 September 2021 08: 39
      +2
      The consumer society of the decaying West has successfully survived the scoop and continues to be among the leaders in economics and science.
      I do not want to return to the scoop: there is money but you can not buy anything. And why is all this then?
      Russia's problem is monopolies and huge taxes. And of course corruption.
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 5 September 2021 09: 01
        +2
        Quote: FireLake
        I don't want to go back to the scoop: you have money but you can't buy anything.

        What about today? There is a salary, a pension, but nothing can be bought with them ... crying
        1. AlexVas44
          AlexVas44 5 September 2021 09: 16
          +3
          Quote: ROSS 42
          You have a salary and a pension, but you can't buy anything with them.

          And it turns out that there is no money ... crying
        2. El Chuvachino
          El Chuvachino 5 September 2021 11: 08
          -2
          What can't you buy yourself?
      2. And Us Rat
        And Us Rat 5 September 2021 21: 14
        0
        Quote: FireLake
        And of course corruption.

        This is the biggest problem. Nothing undermines the economy and slows down development more than corruption, mutual responsibility and nepotism.
        These are the factors due to which the countries of the "third world" continue to be so.

        Quote: FireLake
        huge taxes

        In developed social countries, they are larger, so it's a sin to complain. The problem is rather a heap of unnecessary bureaucratic regulations and extortions from the army of useless officials.
        1. Revival
          Revival 6 September 2021 01: 47
          0
          Well, for balance, note that we have taxes over forty, so social countries have not gone far.
    5. Sasha from Uralmash
      Sasha from Uralmash 5 September 2021 08: 59
      +3
      We do not have an economy, we have chrematistics! The system is geared towards making a profit that has nothing to do with the common good!
    6. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 5 September 2021 10: 07
      +4
      Quote: ROSS 42
      Thirty Years of Cultivation of a Consumer Society ...

      You can safely delete it from the list of arguments. For the Yankees, this cultivation has been going on for 200+ years, and I did not notice that this would prevent them from occupying dominant positions in the mass of spheres, as an example of which is this article.
      Consumption determines the consumer himself, as in the wild, under equal conditions - an intelligent animal will eat something, hide something for later, share something with the flock, leave something to scavengers, and the stupid one will eat until the intestines burst.
      The secret is actually trivial - it is necessary to get rid of nouveau riches and the syndrome of "hungry edge" from the public consciousness.
      But for this, you first need to get rid of mass poverty and misery.
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 5 September 2021 12: 48
        0
        Quote: And Us Rat
        For the Yankees, this cultivation has been going on for 200+ years, and I did not notice that this would prevent them from occupying dominant positions in the mass of spheres ...

        I don’t understand what you wanted to say in your detailed report? You are, apparently, a few years old and you did not have time to "google" that the United States gained its dominance after 1945. After Europe, ravaged by WWII wounds, lay in ruins, and no bombs or shells fell on the territory of the United States (on the mainland) at that time, but a stream of "promissory notes" and gold poured out. And from all sides. And only the Bretton Woods monetary system created by them, which enslaved the leading countries of the world, raised the United States from oblivion. From that gloom of history with the genocide of the native population of North America, the period of slavery, military intervention and racial discrimination against the black population. Today they are African-Americans, whom they managed to insert into all the latest Hollywood films, even in times and places where they could not be a priori.
        Thieves, bandits, robbers, rapists have been present throughout the history of mankind. Only the states created by them on the world map once or twice were counted.
        In prison, they also live according to concepts, regardless of the supposedly existing order and rules, but this happens only because of permissiveness. Do you know why there are no pickpockets in Arab countries? This is because they have nothing to steal.
        Your comparison of the laws of the pack looks ridiculous and disgusting, at least against the background of the biblical commandments. Where gluttony (pleasing the worms) is a mortal sin. It is possible to get rid of mortal sins. This requires deep faith and high morality in society, and not empty words about the fight against poverty and misery from the stands of the State Duma, Federation Council and TV screens. Poverty can only be overcome by labor and its fair payment.
        ==========
        For two decades, we have never heard from the authorities that they, together with their people, are ready to tighten their belts and build a new state on new, better (possibly different from socialist) principles. This government has been warned more than once that:
        You can deceive part of the people all the time, and the whole people for a while, but you cannot deceive the whole people all the time.

        And, so, when today the rating of state institutions fell, when the faith of the Russian population in a bright tomorrow faded away, the authorities remembered about virtue ...
        1. Sergey1964
          Sergey1964 5 September 2021 14: 13
          +5
          Quote: ROSS 42
          You are, apparently, a few years old and you did not have time to "google" that the United States gained its dominance after 1945.

          Not true. The United States became a great industrial and technological power before World War II. In 1939, the GDP of the United States was already greater than the GDP of Great Britain, France and the USSR combined. And, by the way, more than the GDP of all the Axis countries, also combined.
          1. Ross xnumx
            Ross xnumx 5 September 2021 14: 32
            0
            Quote: Sergey1964
            Not true. The United States became a great industrial and technological power before World War II. In 1939, the GDP of the United States was already greater than the GDP of Great Britain, France and the USSR combined.

            Truth. The United States ranked first in the world in terms of GDP, but this does not mean the dominance of this country in the world and its right and ability to dictate its will to others, especially GB and Germany ... That is why Germany managed to militarize the economy by 80% and start a war ...
            The real establishment of US dominance took place after 1945. You could see in the tablet how the GDP of countries has changed and ask yourself why.
            1. Sergey1964
              Sergey1964 5 September 2021 15: 02
              +1
              Quote: ROSS 42
              The United States ranked first in the world in terms of GDP, but this does not mean the dominance of this country in the world.

              What do you mean by "dominance"?
              Quote: ROSS 42
              You could see in the tablet how the GDP of countries has changed and ask yourself why.

              I watched, of course. Why is not a question at all. Countries mobilized their economies - see growth in Great Britain, Germany and the USSR (in the USSR - after an understandable recession in 1942, when production partially remained in the occupied territory, and partially had to be relocated beyond the Urals). And the United States has mobilized its economy - including putting women on the bench. But the mobilization potential of the advanced American economy (remember, conveyor production first appeared in the United States) turned out to be higher than that of other countries.
              Quote: ROSS 42
              The real establishment of US dominance took place after 1945.

              And who exactly did they dominate? Over the USSR, over China, over India, over the GDR, over Czechoslovakia, over Hungary, ...? Please announce the list of industrialized and simply large-populated states over which they dominated. And explain how this dominance was manifested. Desirable - with numbers and facts.
              1. Ross xnumx
                Ross xnumx 5 September 2021 16: 29
                +1
                Quote: Sergey1964
                What do you mean by "dominance"?

                It's hard for me to explain common truths - the dollar has become a global currency ...
                That is why the collapse of the dollar, which some economists have been talking about for so long, is unlikely, because it will be the collapse of the world economy.
                1. Sergey1964
                  Sergey1964 5 September 2021 17: 23
                  0
                  Quote: ROSS 42
                  It's hard for me to explain common truths

                  This is because your truisms are not really so. ))
                  Quote: ROSS 42
                  the dollar has become the world's currency ...

                  Not true. The CMEA countries had their own currency - the transferable ruble. And if we talk about modernity (from the beginning of this century), then see the euro. Anyway, there are many world currencies, good and different. Their share in international settlements and reserves in the first approximation corresponds to the size of the economy of the currency issuer.
                  1. Offliner
                    Offliner 7 September 2021 23: 06
                    0
                    And the Swiss franc? By the way, this is a headache for them - they print, everything settles in reserves, they print ...
            2. Revival
              Revival 6 September 2021 01: 51
              0
              This is how they prepared dominance.
        2. And Us Rat
          And Us Rat 5 September 2021 14: 32
          +3
          Quote: ROSS 42
          You, apparently ...

          You should not get personal, so as not to give a reason to catch yourself in demagogic tricks on the sly. This is a direct sign of a weak argumentation base.

          Quote: ROSS 42
          And only the Bretton - Woods monetary system created by them, which enslaved the leading countries of the world, raised the United States from oblivion ...

          In the adult world, the game is for the result, no one is interested in who and how they tried, but only who achieved the set goal. History is written by the winners (in all areas). And to sit and complain about the "cruel and unprincipled world" and lament over spilled milk is the lot of losers and slobberies.

          Quote: ROSS 42
          For two decades, we have never heard from the authorities ...

          Do not be offended by my heartless frankness, but I sincerely believe that every nation has exactly the power (or power we have) that it deserves. Power is the elite, the quintessence of society, squeeze, concentration of characteristics, morals and culture. Therefore, what kind of society is the same power.

          Quote: ROSS 42
          Do you know why there are no pickpockets in Arab countries? ...

          Because this is nonsense, a story, a myth.
          They are everywhere, and in Egypt, and in Jordan, and in Moroko, and in Tunisia, etc. and so on, and the poorer the country, the more of them. And there have always been, in spite of any punishments.
          1. Sergey1964
            Sergey1964 5 September 2021 15: 04
            +2
            Quote: And Us Rat
            I sincerely believe that every nation has exactly the power (or power we have) that it deserves. Power is the elite, the quintessence of society, squeeze, concentration of characteristics, morals and culture. Therefore, what kind of society is the same power.

            I completely agree. Put a plus. ))
            1. unaha
              unaha 6 September 2021 11: 46
              0
              I would put 2 plus if I could)
          2. Ross xnumx
            Ross xnumx 5 September 2021 16: 31
            -3
            Quote: And Us Rat
            Don't be offended by my heartless straightforwardness

            You are confusing straightforwardness with stubbornness ... Happy to remain in your own notions.
            hi
            ==========
            not interesting ... and slobber.
        3. Denis812
          Denis812 7 September 2021 18: 27
          0
          For two decades, we have never heard from the authorities that they, together with their people, are ready to tighten their belts and build a new state on new, better (possibly different from socialist) principles.

          Uh ... I'm not ready, for example. I’m part of the people. Sorry, of course, but your "belt-tightening" is not interesting to everyone. Many people just want to live.
          But the state should and can find tools to exist normally without tightening the belts of the population. Moreover, such a rich state as the Russian Federation.
      2. paul3390
        paul3390 5 September 2021 14: 16
        0
        For the Yankees, this cultivation has been going on for 200+ years, and I did not notice that this would prevent them from occupying dominant positions in the mass of spheres, as an example of which is this article.

        Yes. Mainly due to the migration of those who were educated in a society with other paradigms, but were still tempted by American consumption .. Look at the photos of participants in all kinds of scientific Olympiads from America - are there many Anglo-Saxon faces there?
        1. Sergey1964
          Sergey1964 5 September 2021 14: 28
          +4
          Quote: paul3390
          are there many Anglo-Saxon faces?

          1. Look better at the list of Nobel laureates. Or, say, SpaceX engineers.
          2. You have misconceptions about the United States. The US population is not Anglo-Saxon. The population of the United States is people with US citizenship, regardless of their ethnicity.
          In this regard, the United States is in some way similar to my native Siberia, and the similarity is noted not only by me. A person is called a Siberian not by skin color or ethnicity. A person is called a Siberian by the fact of birth and residence in Siberia (or - by the fact of birth in another region, but long-term residence in Siberia).
          Quote: paul3390
          but still tempted by American consumption

          Talented people from all over the world do not go to the United States for consumption. They go for the opportunity to realize their talents. This is the strength of the United States - in providing people with the opportunity to fully realize their talents.
        2. And Us Rat
          And Us Rat 5 September 2021 15: 24
          +3
          Quote: paul3390
          Yes. Mainly due to the migration of those who received their education in a society with different paradigms, but were still tempted by American consumption.

          Suppose (although this is not true) that everything is exactly like that. And what follows from this? The fact that a consumer society is more viable and competitive, since they are fleeing from "other paradigms" to it? wassat

          Likbez:
          In the U.S. 4 000 (FOUR THOUSAND CARL !!!) universities, of which 200 are in the top Tier, that is, the most rated.
          There are 2914 universities in the PRC, and only 877 in the Russian Federation.

          Quote: paul3390
          are there many Anglo-Saxon faces?

          Are you an adherent of the myth of "Anglo-Saxon America"? wassat
          Let me tell you a terrible secret, the Naglo-Saxons make up only 8% (EIGHT CARL !!!) of the US population. Blacks and Latinos - 24%.
          And (drum roll) 63% of the US population are Germans, French, Italians, Dutch, Norwegians, Swedes and Poles. fellow
          1. Sergey1964
            Sergey1964 5 September 2021 16: 30
            +2
            Quote: And Us Rat
            Let me tell you a terrible secret, the Naglo-Saxons make up only 8% (EIGHT CARL !!!) of the US population. Blacks and Latinos - 24%.
            A (drum roll) 63% of the US population - Germans, French, Italians, Dutch, Norwegians, Swedes and Poles

            Someone gave you a minus for this post. Interestingly, the mysterious minus player sincerely believes that after his minus the facts will change? I gave you a plus as compensation. ))
          2. DenVB
            DenVB 5 September 2021 17: 43
            +1
            Quote: And Us Rat
            Let me tell you a terrible secret, the Naglo-Saxons make up only 8% (EIGHT CARL !!!) of the US population.

            Plus, we must add to them 14-15 percent of the Germans, who, in fact, are not far from the Anglo-Saxons (the Angles and Saxons are Germanic tribes). Plus another 7 percent identify their origins as "American." That is, like, they have been living in the country for so long that they do not care where their ancestors come from (basically the same conventional Anglo-Saxons). Sum up, and we get about 30 percent.

            Yes, this is not so much (the monstrous immigration of the twentieth century has deprived them of the majority), but this is exactly the ethnic group that created the country and, by and large, still owns it - the land belongs mainly to them, most of the "business captains" ( real business, not finance and cinematography) from this group.
            1. And Us Rat
              And Us Rat 5 September 2021 21: 17
              -1
              Quote: DenVB
              Plus, you need to add 14-15 percent of Germans to them.

              Is it difficult to read the comment to the end? Is it easier to answer inappropriately and look ridiculous?
              1. DenVB
                DenVB 5 September 2021 23: 40
                0
                Quote: And Us Rat
                Is it difficult to read the comment to the end? Is it easier to answer inappropriately and look ridiculous?

                I don't know why you are trying to be rude to me. I perfectly understood what you wrote. You united the Germans with the Italians and other Poles, but the meaning of my words is that it is just logical to unite the Germans with the Anglo-Saxons. They have a similar background and a similar mentality. Little similar to the mentality of Catholic nations like Italians or Irish.
          3. DenVB
            DenVB 5 September 2021 18: 13
            0
            I will add more. Of the last twelve US presidents (starting with Kennedy), eight have been "Anglo-Saxons." Quotes because pure Anglo-Saxons are, of course, hard to find. Over the centuries that they have lived in the States, mixing of blood has been going on in one way or another. Well, as I already wrote above, Americans of German descent, I also refer to the conditional Anglo-Saxons. Trump, by the way, is a "German".

            Presidents who clearly cannot be attributed to the Anglo-Saxons are Kennedy (Irish), Reagan (Irish), Obama (Kenyan), Biden (Irish).
            1. And Us Rat
              And Us Rat 5 September 2021 21: 19
              -1
              Quote: DenVB
              pure Anglo-Saxons, of course, are difficult to find

              As well as purebred Russians in Russia. request

              Quote: DenVB
              Kennedy (Irish), Reagan (Irish), Obama (Kenyan), Biden (Irish).

              Stalin (Georgian), Khrushchev (Ukrainian), Shoigu (Tuvan), etc., etc.

              Does that mean anything at all?
              1. DenVB
                DenVB 5 September 2021 23: 44
                0
                Quote: And Us Rat
                Does that mean anything at all?

                It doesn't mean anything at all. Sorry for the disturbance caused.
                1. unaha
                  unaha 6 September 2021 11: 52
                  0
                  Actually it means. This is one of the confirmations of the thesis about the "land of unlimited possibilities".
                  1. DenVB
                    DenVB 6 September 2021 11: 58
                    0
                    Actually, I wrote that out of the last twelve US presidents, eight were Anglo-Saxons (in the broadest sense of the word). By this I intended to illustrate the thesis that the country still de facto belongs to them. And then, so that there was no doubt, he indicated which of the twelve were not Anglo-Saxons.

                    I don't know anything about unlimited possibilities. No one seems to have learned how to levitate or travel in time.
                    1. Sergey1964
                      Sergey1964 6 September 2021 14: 01
                      -1
                      Quote: DenVB
                      Anglo-Saxons (in the broadest sense of the word)

                      "Anglo-Saxons in the broadest sense of the word" is strong. In this case, I am also Anglo-Saxon (in the broadest sense of the word). As far as I know, I have a common great-great-great -...- great-grandmother with the Anglo-Saxons, according to mitochondrial DNA research.
                      1. DenVB
                        DenVB 6 September 2021 14: 24
                        0
                        It seems that the intellectual level of this discussion is beyond my capabilities. It's time for me to leave her.
                      2. Sergey1964
                        Sergey1964 6 September 2021 15: 21
                        -1
                        Quote: DenVB
                        It seems that the intellectual level of this discussion is beyond my capabilities.

                        I am willing to explain.
                        In human cells (as well as in the cells of other eukaryotes) there are so-called mitochondria. These are the descendants of ancient bacteria that entered into a mutually beneficial symbiosis with the unicellular ancestors of today's eukaryotes. These mitochondria supply the host cell with energy due to the so-called oxygen respiration (I omit the details), have their own genome (typically prokaryotic), and in H. sapiens are transmitted exclusively through the maternal line.

                        As a result of the analysis of the genome of the mitochondria of modern people (I omit the details), it was concluded that all non-African humanity on the maternal line originates from one woman (the so-called Mitochondrial Eve) who lived in Africa about 130-180 thousand years ago. That is, we all (including good Russians and bad Anglo-Saxons) are great-great-great -...- great-grandchildren of one woman. In fact, there were enough women in the ancestral African population, but the descendants of only one great-great-great -...- great-grandmother on the maternal side have survived to this day. Someone did not have children, someone ate a saber-toothed tiger, someone only had boys (through which mitochondria are not transmitted) ... Eve and the genetic diversity of modern mankind "on the resource Anthropogenesis.Ru.

                        In general, we (including you personally and myself) are the same Anglo-Saxons, and the Anglo-Saxons are the same Russians. Of course
                        Quote: DenVB
                        in the broadest sense of the word
      3. Revival
        Revival 6 September 2021 01: 53
        +1
        So what? Are they going in spite of?
        The usa discovered the philosopher's stone for attracting talent inaccessible to anyone else?
  • Monar
    Monar 5 September 2021 13: 30
    0
    In the current state - not at all
    Well, let's go on the topic. Why do the Americans have success there? I'm just talking about the article. An electronic warfare complex was hung on a civilian light letak. And now it turns out to be like covering the entire air defense system. Moreover, as the author claims, this is a battlefield plane.
    Civilian carrier. Don't you think this is strange?
  • antivirus
    antivirus 5 September 2021 07: 15
    +2
    again, the plaster was removed and, without checking for the presence of diamonds, they were thrown into the trash.
    everything is lost....
    The Ministry of Defense should be closed for rediscounting and the pension should not be paid to anyone.
  • Maki Avellevich
    Maki Avellevich 5 September 2021 07: 20
    +1
    The result is a light and unobtrusive, truly tactical aircraft of the battlefield, capable of performing various tasks in the interests of its side.

    the addition to the account "in the interests of one's own side" is original
  • Eug
    Eug 5 September 2021 07: 49
    +2
    Conclusion - it is necessary to create an electronic warfare aircraft based on the Su-30 and, in the future, on the basis of the Su-57-2 (two-seat modification). This is for actively suppressing the enemy. And to protect their planes - containers, the same Khibiny. And see what is more profitable to apply in specific conditions.
    1. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 5 September 2021 10: 18
      +1
      Quote: Eug
      And to protect their planes - containers, the same Khibiny.

      Everything here rests on the miniaturization of the element base.
      It is not just that the Khibiny is a heavy unit, not for any aircraft. They didn't make it that way on purpose.
      This is a systemic question, not a tactical one.
      1. Eug
        Eug 5 September 2021 17: 25
        +1
        This means that to cover the sides that are not capable of carrying the Khibiny, to use a specialized side. Smart tactics sometimes compensate for technical problems.
        1. And Us Rat
          And Us Rat 5 September 2021 20: 28
          0
          Quote: Eug
          Smart tactics sometimes compensate for technical problems.

          Absolutely right. yes
    2. DenVB
      DenVB 5 September 2021 11: 37
      +1
      To create an electronic warfare aircraft based on an unobtrusive aircraft (Su-57) are contradictory paragraphs, in my opinion.
      1. Eug
        Eug 5 September 2021 17: 21
        0
        I do not argue - stealth disappears. But - for the purpose of unification. And, as for me, in the future, electronic warfare systems will be integrated into avionics of serial aircraft, if there is a serious series of Su-57-2 - otherwise this modification should not be developed - it is worthwhile to provide for the electronic warfare option.
        1. DenVB
          DenVB 5 September 2021 17: 57
          0
          Quote: Eug
          But - for the purpose of unification.

          The unification of the Air Force materiel on the Su-57 is an unattainable dream, and most likely unnecessary.

          Quote: Eug
          in the future, electronic warfare systems will be integrated into avionics of serial aircraft

          If we are talking about the creation of a specialized electronic warfare aircraft, such as the "Growler", then a significant part of the electronic warfare equipment is still in overhead containers - it is too voluminous. And the part that is not in the containers takes the place of the cannon. It is unlikely that it will be possible to integrate all this into the avionics of "linear" aircraft.
      2. And Us Rat
        And Us Rat 5 September 2021 20: 31
        +3
        Quote: DenVB
        To create an electronic warfare aircraft based on an unobtrusive aircraft (Su-57) are contradictory paragraphs, in my opinion.

        Not at all, the F35 radar, for example, has electronic warfare functions. Just for the case when stealth no longer helps.
  • steelmaker
    steelmaker 5 September 2021 08: 06
    +5
    In fact, there is nothing to argue. Competently on the "shelves" everything is so laid out. All that Putin did for 20 years was traded in his homeland. And if it were not for the Soviet "galoshes", we would have nothing to defend the country now. And if not for our nuclear weapons, long ago we would have had 1941.
  • Bez 310
    Bez 310 5 September 2021 08: 16
    +9
    Aviation group means of electronic warfare is very serious.
    They are designed to cover air strike
    groups on the route and in the area of ​​impact. And where can ours fly
    air strike groups, where are we planning to strike?
    What are the goals of our strike air groups? And what are they
    "strike" planes will be in these strike groups? While on these
    questions no answers, reflect on the group means of electronic warfare
    just pointless.
  • Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 5 September 2021 08: 36
    +3
    Who are you going to extinguish with electronic warfare? The United States has an attack strategy, therefore, is developing air-based electronic warfare, we have protection: ground-based electronic warfare and electronic warfare for protecting its aircraft. We have aircraft-based electronic warfare systems, which are sufficient for the current purpose.
  • AlexVas44
    AlexVas44 5 September 2021 09: 13
    +2
    Quote: Boris55
    So far, we can print rubles exactly as much as currencies have earned and not a single kopeck more.

    But what a spectrum !!!! laughing The governors are especially flattered, rejoicing to see a corner of their estates on the banknote. fellow
  • svoroponov
    svoroponov 5 September 2021 09: 20
    -4
    Over time, Russia will have or already has everything the minimum necessary. The fact that today is suitable for the defense doctrine on its territory, while for the Americans it is offensive for actions in different parts of the globe. Part of the functions of the enemy's electronic warfare aircraft are neutralized by the Russian troops by ground means. And for modern Russian air defense systems, electronic warfare aircraft are not a problem. It will be demolished at a time if it is in the detection zone. As soon as the electronic warfare system on the airplane started working, it was the target.
    In general, the author of the article lagged behind the technology of the Russian army for 20 years, and who will devote him to the secrets and possibilities of modern military developments, even those that have already been put into service today
    And the Americans, yes, well done, marketing and advertising decide everything. They know how to boast. What are their ballistic missile head interception systems worth? They praised the accuracy of hitting them with their anti-missiles, modestly omitting them. that for this they, on these heads, so as not to miss the mark, installed sensors to aim their anti-missiles at them. And they have enough other hyped blunders.
  • mmaxx
    mmaxx 5 September 2021 10: 58
    -1
    That it seems to me that the point is not that we cannot do something. And in the discrepancy between the concepts of air warfare among our military. Stupid losses of planes in Georgia (Tu-22M), in Syria they notify about it. If there was an order, it would take a long time, it would be difficult, but at least something would be done. And there is nothing at all.
    1. DenVB
      DenVB 5 September 2021 11: 33
      0
      Quote: mmaxx
      And in the inconsistency of the concepts of air warfare among our military.

      There is such, I must admit.
  • DenVB
    DenVB 5 September 2021 11: 10
    0
    Have we already written off all An-12PPs? In the Georgian war, they were used, and it seems, even with a noticeable effect.
  • km-21
    km-21 5 September 2021 12: 11
    -3
    Quote: Professor

    Elementary. Pay programmers and electronics engineers like in Silicon Valley in order to compete in working conditions with Google and Amazon, and specialists will pour into the military-industrial complex, creating competition for the bourgeoisie.


    To pay like in Silicon Valley, you need to have a printing press like the Fed, which is impossible by definition. In addition, do not forget that the hostile (to Russia) West is not only Silicon Valley, but the entire "golden billion" based in America, Europe, Asia and Australia. No Russian rubles will be enough to compete with them.

    Therefore, you will not have to use a carrot, but a whip. That is, the same notorious Stalinism, from which we all for some reason shy away. Yes, from Stalinism, it can be a little unpleasant, but over time it will get used to it. But there will be a chance to save the Motherland from the enemy, external and internal. Otherwise, sooner or later Western technologies will provide a decisive superiority over Russia, which is forever behind. With all the ensuing consequences.
    1. Sergey1964
      Sergey1964 5 September 2021 17: 02
      +4
      Quote: km-21
      To pay like in Silicon Valley, you need to have a printing press like the Fed, which is impossible by definition.

      Another adept of the printing press. All the same questions.
      1. Russia has its own printing press. What prevents to turn it on to its fullest and print many, many full-weight rubles as opposed to American candy wrappers? And, the ruble will depreciate, and you will have to go to the store for bread with a suitcase of cut paper from the Central Bank of Russia. That's it...
      2. Why, then, does the dollar not depreciate? God bless him, with the ruble - the dollar does not depreciate against the euro! And even the yuan is not depreciated! Why is that?
      Quote: km-21
      Yes, from Stalinism, it can be a little unpleasant, but over time it will get used to it. But there will be a chance to save the Motherland from the enemy, external and internal.

      It will become especially unpleasant for you personally - when, on the denunciation of a neighbor (he liked your apartment, or simply does not like your physiognomy), or at the whim of the investigator (well, he does not have enough enemies of the people to fulfill the quarterly plan) you are personally arrested and put up against the wall either will be sent on stage.
      Do you think you are personally protected from this? In vain. Under Comrade Stalin, the first head of the NKVD of the USSR, Comrade Yagoda, imprisoned a bunch of enemies of the people. Then it turned out that he himself was an enemy of the people, and he was shot. The second head of the NKVD of the USSR, Comrade Yezhov, imprisoned even more enemies of the people. And what is the result? It turned out that he himself was an enemy of the people, and he was shot. The third head of the NKVD, Comrade Beria, also imprisoned a certain number of enemies of the people. You will laugh - but he, too, turned out to be an enemy of the people and was shot!
      Imagine, all three heads of the NKVD, called upon to fight the enemies of the people under Comrade Stalin, themselves turned out to be enemies of the people and foreign spies in combination. Imagine how many innocent and patriotic km-21 they destroyed in pursuance of their criminal designs. So under the new comrade Stalin, you personally (keywords - you personally) are at great risk.
    2. Firelake
      Firelake 6 September 2021 07: 44
      +1
      Well, live in a barrack, but in the 21st century I don't want to live in a barrack. But I want to continue driving my car, buying delicious food and beautiful things. And in general, you know, you already want to just live for yourself.
      For the country, I pay taxes. And to tear up the ass for the sake of a bunch of politicians who are whipping up a story to cover up my complete impotence, I don't want to. Yes, and there will be no (big) war after the appearance of Yao. So Stalin is already history which, fortunately, will not repeat itself.
  • iouris
    iouris 5 September 2021 12: 14
    0
    Lagging behind the United States in everything is really our national idea. Patamushta must "Catch up and overtake!"
    We must run across the path.
  • Bear
    Bear 5 September 2021 12: 28
    0
    How to at least try to catch up with the United States?
    But it is not necessary. Correctly, many commentators say that "mattresses" rely, in their concept of warfare, on massive air strikes using means of suppressing enemy air defenses with missile strikes and electronic warfare means. We are not going to attack anyone, we have a defensive concept, which implies the strengthening of the ground air defense and electronic warfare units on our territory in the ground performance, in which we have undoubtedly succeeded.
    The "Cutter" and "Lever" complexes are still tactical level systems that will come in handy in conflicts in Syria against the Turks and others like them, or with our Ukrainian neighbors. Perhaps they are not enough, but this is not critical. The air base (IL-114-300) will be pulled up and the required number will be delivered. "Lever" KVZ with KRET, as pies stamping.
  • Spring fluff
    Spring fluff 5 September 2021 12: 41
    +2
    The article begins with the sentence: "It's no secret that electronic warfare systems are the deserved pride of the Russian military-industrial complex." Is there a practical confirmation of this statement - with specific product names and repeated examples of confirmation of practical effectiveness?
  • Borisych
    Borisych 5 September 2021 13: 49
    +4
    I am not an expert, although I am sitting on the couch, although all my life I have tested various military equipment, mainly according to the principle "do as I do". Good principle. Although looking for whom. I am for the fact that the person knocking on the keys of the article on the couch would be a specialist in the field about which he writes. A VO site is good when the people who write in it know their stuff. If you don't think, you better shut up. Like me.
  • Operator
    Operator 5 September 2021 19: 17
    -1
    It seems that the author is in a lethargic dream - alle, garage: UAV in the yard laughing
  • Igluxnumx
    Igluxnumx 5 September 2021 21: 48
    +1
    For some reason, the respected author is not aware of the electronic warfare stations installed on some modifications of the MIG-29, as well as the version of the station in containers installed on the wingtips of the SU-27. I saw the result of one type of interference on the radar screen. True, it was a long time ago ...
  • Alexander V.
    Alexander V. 6 September 2021 00: 37
    0
    To date, Russia is number 1 in electronic warfare, in this area for the States to catch up with Russia even longer than even in hypersound
    1. Firelake
      Firelake 6 September 2021 07: 47
      -1
      For hypersound, I do not believe ours at all. To scratch with your tongue is not a test to show ...
    2. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 6 September 2021 12: 52
      0
      The Russian Federation has only caught up (if it has caught up) with the USA in electronic warfare. But there is an extremely shortage of carriers of this electronic warfare. I think the military is looking forward to the Il114 and heavy UAVs for these purposes. At least what is on the Mi8 can easily fit into it ... and it can fly much longer.
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 6 September 2021 09: 38
    0
    1. The Russian aircraft carrier is needed not for countering 10 units of US AUG, but for "showdowns" with those who are removed and have claims to the Russian Federation and do not have AUG. and to protect their maritime communications and nuclear submarine deployment areas.
    2. At least Su27 and Su30 can be converted into electronic warfare somlets after kam rnmont.
    3. There is a "Live" Tu204 (214) with a good range, serial turbojet engines PS-90 and avionics. Why not use it? Under AWACS, Marine, Scout, PP?
    1. zwlad
      zwlad 6 September 2021 12: 14
      0
      According to item 3 and to cut the budget?
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 6 September 2021 12: 40
        +1
        p.3 And what did you drink?
        1. Tu204 (214) production aircraft.
        2. The turbojet engine is serially produced and used on Il96, Il76 ........
        3.RECO is serially produced in the Russian Federation.
        4. Carrying capacity allows.
        5. There are direct analogs based on B737 (AWACS, Poseidon,) There were PP based on Tu95 and Tu16.
        6. For the future, there is a turbojet engine PD-14 and its development in terms of capacity.
        7.We don't have any other planes of this size yet
        1. zwlad
          zwlad 6 September 2021 18: 02
          0
          To cut a saw, you need to create a new car, and preferably three at once, well, so that everyone has enough.
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 7 September 2021 10: 07
            0
            There is MS-21 ... you can immediately do on its basis ...
  • zwlad
    zwlad 6 September 2021 12: 11
    0
    Does it make sense to catch up again?
    Maybe first sit down and think, do we need it?
  • AntiAleks
    AntiAleks 6 September 2021 18: 24
    0
    "And the opponents have dances of joy." - after this phrase, there is no strength to read nonsense.
  • Flash
    Flash 6 September 2021 20: 24
    0
    It is also interesting that all the late Soviet programs for creating specialized jammers ended in nothing - the Il-76PP and Tu-22MP remained isolated prototypes. According to the official version, they could not ensure the electromagnetic compatibility of electronic warfare equipment and carrier equipment.
    Su-24MP, released in homeopathic doses, may not be taken into account at all. Perhaps such a number of cars produced is an indicator of the low efficiency of the complex.
    "Bouquets" and "Beans" in the 1980s were already deeply outdated complexes, at that time only new SPS-151, -152, -153 "Lilac" were received.
  • Pankrat25
    Pankrat25 7 September 2021 07: 07
    +1
    What the hell am I reading right now ?? What finger is it sucked from?
  • Sergey3
    Sergey3 7 September 2021 18: 09
    +2
    Again, the author was going to catch up with someone, as the psychology of those who are always lagging behind is firmly entrenched in their heads. What is most interesting is that people are infected with this psychology, they are completely unaware of what is happening, but the articles are written as if by experts.
  • Georgievic
    Georgievic 7 September 2021 21: 23
    +1
    ! What a read for CIA analysts! We gave them medals and promotions!
    1. Pankrat25
      Pankrat25 8 September 2021 07: 45
      +1
      I would not be surprised if the analyst squeezed this provocative article in order to delve into the chatter ...