Military Review

The Rus of the North and the Lies of Norman Theory

434

The series "Vikings"


In the West, they are sure that Russia was founded by the Swedes, that they built Novgorod, Polotsk, Kiev and other cities on the lands of "savages who prayed to stumps." That Russia was a colony of Vikings, Germans and Scandinavians, that the Swedish dynasty ruled the Russian lands until the Time of Troubles.

Western ideological information sabotage


Not interested in promoting the "classic" version stories (in the interests of the German-Roman, Anglo-Saxon world), researchers argue that no one knew about this three centuries ago. Eastern and Western historiographers derived the Russian clan from the biblical ancestor Japheth and from the grandson of Noah Scythian, from Rus, from the ancient princes of Scythia, Slaven and Venda (Vandal). That is, the Russians-Russians were at least one of the most ancient peoples of the planet.

But at the call of Tsar Peter Alekseevich, who, due to the turbulent events of his childhood, did not receive a full-fledged Russian upbringing and became an admirer of everything Western, German academicians came to "Young Russia". Through their efforts, although they did not even learn Russian to study the chronicles, the "true history of the Russian land" was written.

Bayer, Miller and Schlözer laid the foundation for the "classical academic" school of history in Russia. Nikolai Mikhailovich Karamzin and Sergei Mikhailovich Solovyov, and their numerous followers, created their multivolume works in line with it. They picked up the idea that the Russians are a "non-historical" people, that the Russian state, religion, culture and writing were created by foreigners.

In conditions when in Russia the Romanovs in the XVIII - early XX centuries. German, French and English languages ​​prevailed among the Russian elite, as well as European culture, this school immediately won dominant positions.

The studies of Mikhail Lomonosov, Vasily Tatishchev, Yegor Klassen, Tadeusz Volansky, Yuri Venelin, Alexander Veltman and other authors who noted the ancient roots of the Slavs and Russes and laid the foundations of the Russian (Slavic) historical school, were hushed up, were subjected to a powerful information attack.

In general, nothing has changed at the present time.

Authors who find thousands of Russian traces (in archeology, anthropology, linguistics, toponymy, etc.), that is, where, according to the official version, they never existed (for example, in Northern and Western Europe, in the Middle East), they are immediately subjected to slander and oblivion, they are accused of amateurism, “ignorance of the foundations” of history, a pseudoscientific approach, and so on.

One of the striking examples is Mikhail Zadornov, who began to raise questions about the origin of the Slavs-Rus, the antiquity of the Russian language, which existed long before the appearance of English, German or French. Due to his great popularity, Zadornov did a great job, awakening historical, genetic memory in Russians. It is not surprising that he met with powerful information resistance, since the issue of Russian history and language is a matter of the big game on planet Earth and geopolitics. The enemies of the Russian world and the people need to hide the truth, otherwise the Russians, realizing their true place in world history, will become practically invincible and challenge the current global (Western) project of human enslavement.

Westerners need to show the "savagery and unreasonableness" of the Russian-Slavs. Ensure the conceptual, ideological right of Western masters to exercise "cultural and humanitarian" hegemony over Russia. And in the long term - to completely solve the "Russian question".

Normanism


Normanists argue simply: Peter I invited the Germans and other Westernizers to pull Russia out of the darkness of ignorance, to enlighten the “Russian savages”, to introduce Russians to European civilization. So - it was so in the days of Rurik and Prophetic Oleg, when the Slavic aborigines invited "enlightened" Swedes or Germans to their place? In general, the Russians are the Indians of America, and the Germans are the enlighteners and civilizers.

The information sabotage went off with a bang.

All of Europe (and after it the world) accepted the fact that the Swedish (German) Vikings came to the "wild" Russian lands and created the Russian state. And now, in the popular and very beautiful Canadian-Irish TV series "Vikings" they say that Rurik, Oleg the Prophet, Askold and Igor are representatives of the Scandinavian dynasty who rule the Russians. At the same time, myths about the identity of the Rus and the Turks-Mongols are being introduced (this is how Russians look in the series). About the fact that under Oleg Christianity already dominated, and the Russians are going to "eradicate paganism" in the North of Europe, although the Russians themselves glorified Perun and Veles at that time.

The legend was beautiful and understandable to Europe.

After all, the Vikings came to England and founded kingdoms among the Britons, Scots and Saxons. And even earlier, the Angles and Saxons came and conquered the "unreasonable" Celts. The Varangian-Viking Rollo came to Frankia-France with a retinue and founded the Duchy of Normandy, became the founder of the Norman dynasty. Varangian Roger (Russiero-Rus) came to Sicily and became the founder of the Sicilian principality.

How can one be surprised that Norman civilizers came to Russia as well? That the first rulers of the Russian principalities were the Norman kings? Although it is known that "Norman" is not an ethnonym, but a geographical term - "northern man".

And they actually came. The Varangians were summoned, and they came. But not as strangers, "the Swedes of the Germanic tribe", but as their own, relatives. Otherwise, Russian history was completely different. Chronicles would have been written by Western chroniclers, the "Swedes" would have left the names of cities, the names of princely and boyar families, the remnants of their language would have been preserved, etc. Moreover, the fact is that there were simply no "Germans" and "Swedes" at that time, as well as German and Swedish!

Who came to Russia?


Russian written sources say quite definitely:

“Rus, Slovenia and Chud resolved ... and sent across the sea to the Varyag, to Russia; sice bo zvakhou Varyags with Russia, like and sei drouzei are called Sven, Ourmane, Anglyane, inii Gothe ... "

That is, for the establishment of the order (land protection), Russia, the Novgorod Slavs and the white-eyed Chud turned purposefully not to the “Vikings”, not to the “Normans” or “Germans”, but to Russia. Everything is clear and clear.

The Rus called on their direct relatives - the Rus.

Therefore, the Rus-Varangians behaved in the lands of Rus in a completely different way than in the lands of Christianized England and France. There they walked with fire and sword, leaving behind a scorched desert. In Russia, the Varangians behaved like zealous owners, stopped civil strife, united lands and tribes, built and created. The order was brought in harshly, but a great power was created.

The annals also report that

"The language is the same for Rus and Slovenes ..."

It would seem that everything is obvious, simple and natural!

Rus from Northern Europe came to the Rus of Ladoga and Novgorod. One language, one genus, one tradition. Rurik himself is Rarog-Falcon.

However, such simplicity and clarity, obviously, did not suit everyone and does. Someone needs muddy water, "white spots" and "dark ages" to fish.

And then another game begins - political, ideological, informational.

Deliriums and fantasies begin, supported by many-wise thick volumes of encyclopedias and scientific research. And then Hollywood, Netflix, which will fix any nonsense as a genuine and unshakable truth.

The name Rurik is not recognized as a Slavic name, but is translated as supposedly Khlodrik, Khrekh, etc. His brother Sineus (Russian name - Blue, Gray, Gray mustache) is translated as supposedly "with his kind." Truvor is no longer Truvor (a typical Slavic Russian name - from a number of Yavor, Ivor, Trigor, Suvor, etc.), but in translation supposedly - with "his faithful squad." “Rus” is no longer Rus at all, but supposedly the Finnish word “rootsi”, and the ancestors of the Finns (chud) allegedly called the Swedish rowers “rootsi”.

An ordinary lie, so familiar to the West and Westerners. In the VIII-XIII centuries. there were no Swedes, Norwegians or Germans. There was no Swedish, Norwegian or German! They were created much later, several centuries later, already in the XNUMXth – XNUMXth centuries. These are young ethnic groups and languages.

But Rus-Russians and the Russian language were. And translators of Russia and the Slavs are not needed. Today's Russians fully understand the language of the Russes of the XNUMXth – XNUMXth centuries. One source-root, one big superethnos, one language.

Therefore, not a single "German-Swedish" word from "Swedish Varangians" remained in Russia. On the contrary, in Northern Europe Swedes, Norwegians, Danes and Icelanders inherited the roots and inflections (endings, suffixes) of the Russian language.

Who lived in Europe?


The crux of the matter is not who founded the Russian state, although it is on this that the attention of the inhabitants is concentrated. And in that - who lived in Europe at that time? In Central, Northern and Southern Europe?

And this question is no longer just a historical one, but a question of big politics and ideology. In Europe, they cannot recognize the fact that the Russians-Russians are the most ancient people of Europe. That today's Greeks have nothing to do with the ancient Greeks, and the Italians have nothing to do with the Italic Romans. That the Germans, Swedes, British and French have less ancient history than the Russians.

It is precisely this very essence of the truth that the Normanists and Westerners are trying to cover up with all their might, declaring that the Russians-Russians came out of the forests supposedly not earlier than the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries, lived mainly by gathering, constantly ran and hid from the conquerors of the steppe. But, most likely, the Russians were supposedly formed later, already in the XIV-XV centuries around the Moscow principality.

By the way, in the last two decades, a new-old theory (invented by the Polish masters) has been gaining strength that the Russian-Muscovites have nothing to do with the Rus of ancient Kiev and Galich, that they are supposedly the descendants of wild Finns and Mongols. And the real descendants of the Russes of the times of Oleg and Igor Stary are Ukrainians.

The truth is that during the period when Russia was ruled by Rurik, Oleg and Igor, there was no German-Scandinavian world in Northern and Central Europe.

Those who are now called "Normans, Vikings and Varangians" in real, true history were Rus, Baltic Slavic-Rus, veins-Wends-Vandals.

Western Rus spoke the same language as the eastern Rus of Novgorod and Kiev, had the same faith and culture. And only after several centuries of onslaught to the east and north, the wars of the South against the North and East, the Rus in Northern and Central Europe were partially destroyed, partially assimilated by the newcomers "Romano-Germans". Only the eastern core of the super-ethnos of the Rus resisted and created a great power-empire Russia-Rus.

Thus, the Germanization of Northern and Eastern Europe began rather late.

At the time of Rurik and Oleg, present-day Scandinavia and Germany were the lands of the Western, Baltic Slavic-Rus.

The current "history of Europe" is a continuous myth created in the name of the geopolitical interests of Catholic Rome, and then of the small-town nationalist ambitions of Germany, Austria, France, and so on.

Today this myth persists for the sake of the interests of the collective West.

And the real history of the Ancient World and Europe was completely different.

There were no "Germanic Scandinavians" at that time. All young ethnic groups - Germans, Swedes, Norwegians, etc. - were created several centuries later.

The Baltic region was completely Russian.

Therefore, the Baltic Sea was called the Varangian or Venedian (Wends - Western Rus), as well as the Black Sea, which was then called the Russian (at the same time).
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  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 2 September 2021 04: 51
    +13
    ... In the West, they are sure that Russia was founded by the Swedes, that they built Novgorod, Polotsk, Kiev and other cities on the lands of "savages who prayed to stumps." That Russia was a colony of Vikings, Germans and Scandinavians, that the Swedish dynasty ruled the Russian lands until the Time of Troubles.

    I have only one question for the Author - who? Poufs in the form of "masters of the West" are not to be offered.
    Regards, Kote!
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 2 September 2021 07: 18
      +1
      "Savages who prayed to stumps"


      lived in the forest, prayed to the wheel
      so right, and the wheel is for the Sun / Colo
      None of the historians want to consider the phenomenon of the worship of the Slavs to the Sun during the time of Ivan the Terrible, and even Fomenko and Nosovsky too.



      "The language is the same for Rus and Slovenes ..."


      what is the chronicle of this phrase?

      On the contrary, in Northern Europe Swedes, Norwegians, Danes and Icelanders inherited the roots and inflections (endings, suffixes) of the Russian language.


      it would be nice to give examples.


      And now, in the popular and very beautiful Canadian-Irish TV series "Vikings" they say that Rurik, Oleg the Prophet, Askold and Igor are representatives of the Scandinavian dynasty who rule the Russians.


      from the book of Thaddeus Volansky Letters about Slavic antiquities 1846 This is the coin on which Volansky read Rurik / Rurik, along with other decryptions, for example, these inscriptions of the OI, Volansky's works are not considered at all.
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 2 September 2021 07: 46
        +3
        lived in the forest, prayed to the wheel
        Yes we are!
        By the way, surprised by the outraged, is it really the theory that the Slavs cannot control themselves?
      2. El Barto
        El Barto 2 September 2021 12: 46
        +5
        the phenomenon of the worship of the Slavs to the Sun during the time of Ivan the Terrible, none of the historians wants to consider


        Well, yes, well, yes ... Everything was carefully hidden. That is why in the middle of the 19th century, all sorts of church commissions wrote to the Synod reports on the "Russian dual faith", that the population only formally recognizes itself as Christians, but in fact lives a pagan (and even, horror of horror, generally godless, atheistic) custom. And all this was officially considered and discussed (let me remind you that the Synod was not a church body, but a state one, such a ministry for Orthodoxy affairs)
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 2 September 2021 15: 43
          +1
          Quote: El Barto
          That is why in the middle of the 19th century, all sorts of church commissions wrote to the Synod reports on the "Russian dual faith", that the population only formally recognizes itself as Christians, but in fact lives a pagan (and even, horror of horror, generally godless, atheistic) custom.


          Alexander Pyzhikov speaks well about this

          1. Civil
            Civil 2 September 2021 17: 20
            -4
            Let's go back to reality. The Normans live well, the Russian North is dying.
            1. Archon
              Archon 3 September 2021 05: 13
              +1
              Here, not only into reality, but also a little into the future, one must look, and it definitely raises questions.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. Dzungar
            Dzungar 5 September 2021 10: 58
            +1
            Alexander V. Pyzhikov (November 27, 1965, Ramenskoye, Moscow region - September 17, 2019 [2], Moscow, Russia) - Russian historian and statesman, specialist in the history of Russia in the 50-60s of the XX century. He was a junior researcher in the department of the history of the CPSU at the Institute of Marxism-Leninism under the Central Committee of the CPSU [6].

            He was the Deputy Director of the Institute of Social and Political Research of the Russian Academy of Sciences [3].

            In 1998 he defended his thesis for the degree of candidate of historical sciences on the topic "Social and political development of Soviet society in 1953-1964." (specialty 07.00.02 - "Russian history") [7].

            In 1999 he defended his thesis for the degree of Doctor of Historical Sciences on the topic "Historical experience of political reform of Soviet society in the 50s - 60s" (specialty 07.00.02 - "Russian history") [8].

            In 2001 he was awarded the academic title of professor [9]. Yegor Gaidar Prize (2013) - "For Outstanding Contribution to History"
            He is an expert on the history of the USSR, and then a certain period. And he was also awarded the prize of the Enemy of Russia and a representative of a people alien to Russia "For an outstanding contribution to the field of history." Apparently for distorting the history of Russia. And there is nothing else ...
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 5 September 2021 11: 41
              -1
              Quote: Dzungar
              And he was also awarded the prize of the Enemy of Russia and a representative of a people alien to Russia. "For an outstanding contribution to the field of history."


              and who honored him so?
              1. Dzungar
                Dzungar 5 September 2021 12: 18
                0
                Can you read...?
                1. Bar1
                  Bar1 5 September 2021 12: 28
                  -2
                  shit you write
                  (letter of the Russian alphabet, for adm)
                  1. Dzungar
                    Dzungar 5 September 2021 12: 30
                    0
                    Yegor Gaidar Prize (2013) - "For Outstanding Contribution to History" SHIT IS YOURS, if you do not see what is written in front of you
                    1. Bar1
                      Bar1 5 September 2021 14: 06
                      -1
                      enemy of russia, what is this prize? Gaidar or what?
                      1. Dzungar
                        Dzungar 5 September 2021 14: 39
                        -1
                        You are a rare brake ...
      3. Region-25.rus
        Region-25.rus 2 September 2021 14: 00
        +1
        and even Fomenko and Nosovsky too
        even "too"! Who are these two? Historians and linguists in style "Etruscans are Russians"? wassat
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 2 September 2021 15: 45
          +3
          Quote: Region-25.rus
          and even Fomenko and Nosovsky too
          even "too"! Who are these two? Historians and linguists in style "Etruscans are Russians"? wassat

          the first to talk about this were the historians Thaddeus Volansky, Alexander Chertkov, Champi the Italian, Yegor Klassen.
          1. Region-25.rus
            Region-25.rus 2 September 2021 15: 47
            0
            the first to talk about this were the historians Thaddeus Volansky, Alexander Chertkov, Champi the Italian, Yegor Klassen.
            and this cancels out all that nonsense that the two above-named characters are carrying?
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 2 September 2021 15: 48
              0
              Quote: Region-25.rus
              the first to talk about this were the historians Thaddeus Volansky, Alexander Chertkov, Champi the Italian, Yegor Klassen.
              and this cancels out all that nonsense that the two above-named characters are carrying?


              undo nonsense of course ...
              1. Region-25.rus
                Region-25.rus 2 September 2021 15: 50
                -4
                undo nonsense of course ...
                then REN-TV to help hi And also "The Theory of a Flat Earth", and the fact that "Peter the First did not begin to build St. Petersburg, but dug up the finished one" wassat laughing
        2. Sergey Sfiedu
          Sergey Sfiedu 2 September 2021 20: 05
          +2
          The site confidently falls below the plinth. It's time to change the editor.
          1. Region-25.rus
            Region-25.rus 2 September 2021 20: 13
            0
            The site confidently falls below the plinth. It's time to change the editor.
            even miss such blunders as
            dressed uniform with shoulder straps
            In the article "We went hiking". I understand that you can be sealed in a hurry. But this ... Sent a feedback on this error. Six hours ago. Do you think corrected?
          2. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker 2 September 2021 20: 26
            -5
            What a baseboard ...
            Bottom knocking got lost ...
            wassat
    2. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 2 September 2021 07: 35
      +10
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka

      I have only one question for the Author - who?

      I also have one question for you - who is who?
    3. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 2 September 2021 08: 07
      +11
      Like who? Yes, here at least Nicole, incited by the famous Russophobe and enemy of the communists Shpakovsky.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 2 September 2021 15: 18
        +5
        You have forgotten one more honorary title - "Russophobe-TRILOBITCHIK"! laughing
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 2 September 2021 15: 50
          -1
          it is better to call WHAT BLOBCHTOPOLBUCH.
      2. Region-25.rus
        Region-25.rus 2 September 2021 15: 37
        -2
        Another character was forgotten to mention laughing
    4. Glory1974
      Glory1974 2 September 2021 10: 02
      +3
      I have only one question for the Author - who? Poufs in the form of "masters of the West" are not to be offered.

      Why do you refuse to accept the version of a secret world government? Are you familiar with The Committee of 300?
    5. The comment was deleted.
      1. Machito
        Machito 2 September 2021 11: 33
        +4
        In the TV series, the Vikings are portrayed as some kind of Mongols, but the level of development of the city of Kiev and Russian technologies are an order of magnitude higher than the Norwegian achievements. So, despite the Norman outlook on Russia in this series, the Norwegians look savage compared to the Russians.
        1. Niko
          Niko 2 September 2021 13: 10
          +8
          Quote: Bearded
          In the TV series, the Vikings are portrayed as some kind of Mongols, but the level of development of the city of Kiev and Russian technologies are an order of magnitude higher than the Norwegian achievements. So, despite the Norman outlook on Russia in this series, the Norwegians look savage compared to the Russians.

          In the series from Marvel there is a spider-man, a man who turns into a green monster, etc. Are you seriously going to challenge the director's fantasy? Or is history closer to you as well as to me?
        2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 2 September 2021 17: 47
          +3
          Quote: Bearded
          In the TV series, the Vikings are portrayed as some kind of Mongols, but the level of development of the city of Kiev and Russian technologies are an order of magnitude higher than the Norwegian achievements.


          If I'm not mistaken "The Vikings Serial" covers the beginning of the Norman campaigns in England. I'm afraid at that time, according to archaeological excavations, Kiev was represented by five scattered settlements and incomprehensibly got hooked by the authorities there were either the Khazars or the Ugrians. And there were no Rusov in our understanding yet. Slavic tribes lived.
          1. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk 2 September 2021 19: 36
            +3
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            I'm afraid for that moment

            If you're afraid, why are you writing? "... either the Khazars or the Ugrians ..." You don't know, but you write. A - I - yay
          2. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk 2 September 2021 20: 23
            +8
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            I'm afraid at that moment

            If you're afraid, why are you writing?
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            Toli Khazars, Toli Ugrians

            You already decide, then write.
            Now decommunization is marching briskly across Ukraine. Everything and everyone is destroyed! Any memory of the Soviet period in the history of Ukraine is being erased. In 2-3 generations the Samsonovs will say - that was ..., and your great-grandchildren will say - nonsense!
            And who told you that when Christianization was walking briskly across the expanses of Rus? then it did not destroy everything associated with the pre-Christian era. Destroyed, and at the same time totally! And how many of these "campaigns" have Rus-Russia survived? Count it up. Here and Christianization, and the Cyrillic alphabet, and the schletzers, and their accomplices Karamzin and Solovyov, and the "Romanovs" and even Peter-1, and he had a hand.
            Each a little bit and there is no history of Russia. Rather, there is, but somewhere perverted, somewhere castrated.
            I do not know what was the history of my Rus, but I know for sure that it is not the one for which you are standing with a mountain.
            1. Mikhail Ya2
              Mikhail Ya2 3 September 2021 05: 54
              -1
              That is, you do not know either, but you are sure that you are being deceived.
              1. Krasnoyarsk
                Krasnoyarsk 3 September 2021 07: 30
                +5
                Quote: Michael Ya2
                That is, you do not know either, but you are sure that you are being deceived.

                Do you believe what Schletser and his comrades wrote? But M. Lomonosov did not believe, and even beat some of the muzzles on this basis.
                And, well, yes, Lomonosov, and not only him, this is so - empty.
                1. Mikhail Ya2
                  Mikhail Ya2 3 September 2021 19: 10
                  +2
                  These are all lyrics, only documents and archaeological finds are interesting.
                  1. Krasnoyarsk
                    Krasnoyarsk 3 September 2021 22: 11
                    +3
                    Quote: Michael Ya2
                    These are all lyrics, only documents and archaeological finds are interesting.

                    Yes, indeed, the original documents were destroyed by the ministers of the church in the process of Christianization, then, what was not destroyed, was destroyed in connection with the creation of a new script - the Cyrillic alphabet, then the schletzers came with their comrades, well, etc. And all this is lyrics.
                    The lyrics are even that archaeological finds that conflict with the official history are simply hushed up, and you've never heard of it.
                    1. Mikhail Ya2
                      Mikhail Ya2 5 September 2021 06: 07
                      +2
                      So enlighten
                      1. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 5 September 2021 07: 48
                        -2
                        Quote: Michael Ya2
                        So enlighten

                        Yeah, schazzzz. Can you also feed you from a spoon? Sami, yourself, not small.
                      2. Mikhail Ya2
                        Mikhail Ya2 5 September 2021 11: 40
                        0
                        wonderful! look for your fantasies, thank you
                  2. Dzungar
                    Dzungar 5 September 2021 14: 51
                    +2
                    archaeological finds that conflict with the official history are simply hushed up
                    tell us about them ...
                    1. Krasnoyarsk
                      Krasnoyarsk 5 September 2021 20: 59
                      -1
                      Quote: Dzungar
                      archaeological finds that conflict with the official history are simply hushed up
                      tell us about them ...

                      Yes, I would love to. But, you will require proof of my words. And you will be right! And in order to provide you with this evidence, I will have to work hard to find it. If I knew that someone would need it someday, I was sure that I am not the only one reading THIS, then I would certainly keep it in the archive. Agree, if you were in my place, you would also refuse. One thing I can say - I had no reason not to trust the source, and he is not the only one who asserts that many artifacts are kept in storage and are never exhibited for public viewing due to discrepancy with the official history.
                    2. Mikhail Ya2
                      Mikhail Ya2 6 September 2021 09: 20
                      +3
                      We have proof, but we will not show it. This is not serious. Write what it is about, and we will go to look for information
                    3. Krasnoyarsk
                      Krasnoyarsk 6 September 2021 18: 20
                      -2
                      Quote: Mikhail Ya2
                      We have proof, but we will not show it.

                      This phrase is from a completely different opera.
                    4. Mikhail Ya2
                      Mikhail Ya2 7 September 2021 00: 27
                      +1
                      But to your comment, it fits perfectly
                  3. The comment was deleted.
                2. The comment was deleted.
  2. boni592807
    boni592807 6 September 2021 19: 43
    0
    Kote pane Kohanka (Vladislav), September 2, 2021 17:47 - "..If I'm not mistaken," The Vikings Series "covers the beginning of the Norman campaigns against England. I'm afraid at that time, according to archaeological excavations Kiev was five scattered settlements and it was incomprehensibly hooked on the power of the Khazars, the Ugrians. was not yet. Slavic tribes lived .... "

    Thanks "Panova" from a similar Belarusian opposition, Yes, precisely, for THIS is the highly intelligent and rulers of advanced technologies VIKINGS they called Russia - GARDARIKA (Country of cities). am Charming, wasn’t it ?! bully
    Imagine a resident of modern France, England, with a shudder of delight, would call modern Somalia a place of the highest architecture and culture
    Thank you for visiting and enlightening
    For your convenience, t.s. yours and you in the subject:

    Europe is swept either to the left or to the right.
    And Pane Kokhanku Didn't drink valerian,
    And drank krambambulya Under delicious dishes.
    This is how Years and centuries pass, Nations disappear,
    Gardens and vegetable gardens, And Pane Kokhanku is close to us and dear,
    And everyone wants to be like a master.
    And each of us wants to live in the palace
    And honey and krupnikom Treat yourself.
    1. boni592807
      boni592807 6 September 2021 19: 53
      0
      Yes, Shanovni "Panove"Poems for you from Krambambula - Pane Kahanku lyrics"
      On page an excerpt of the text and translation from Belarusian into Russian of the song "Pane Kahanku" from the album "Palitra dobraga mood" by the group Krambambul is presentedI. Dzakuyu you, for "science" ... hi
  3. grassyknollgunner
    grassyknollgunner 10 September 2021 04: 05
    +1
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    I'm afraid at that time, according to archaeological excavations, Kiev was represented by five scattered settlements and incomprehensibly got hooked by the authorities there were either the Khazars or the Ugrians.

    Can you tell us more about Kiev 8-9 centuries? What does archeology say there?
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 September 2021 04: 49
      +2
      For more details see Rybakov. Despite the fact that the latter gave Kiev 1500 years - about a single settlement, which can be attributed to Old Russian (Polyanskiy) Kiev, this is by the end of the 9th and the beginning of the 10th century. 7-8 century the middle course of the Dnieper is the place of residence of the Drevlyans (the meadows lived to the south).
      1. grassyknollgunner
        grassyknollgunner 10 September 2021 04: 52
        +1
        And what about the Hungarians there? Is there a presence?
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 September 2021 05: 12
          +1
          Quote: grassyknollgunner
          And what about the Hungarians there? Is there a presence?

          Archaeologically, for almost a century.
          1. grassyknollgunner
            grassyknollgunner 10 September 2021 05: 17
            +1
            In the Kiev area, do you mean? 9th century huh?
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 September 2021 21: 20
              +1
              The key point of the report is apparently the construction of Sakrel by the Khazars in the 30s of the 8th century. This is the peak of the power of the Khazar Kaganate. In his sphere of influence are the Magyars, northerners, glades. Prior to that, his apparently progressive pressure on the Magyars forces the latter, in turn, to expand to the Slavic tribes of the Glades. The domino effect also affects other Slavic tribes, primarily the Drevlyans, who are retreating to the northwest. In fact, the Drevlyans along the Dnieper run into the Krivichi with their Gnezdovo (Smolensk). All this takes place at the end of the 9th and beginning of the 11th century and is confirmed by the burials of the Slavs and Ugrians in the area of ​​the middle reaches of the Dnieper. It is more likely that both were in vassal dependence on the Khazars. Surprisingly, this is confirmed by our PVL and the Hungarian chronicles. Despite the fact that they are 12-7 centuries old. The legend of tribute with swords PVL intersects with the listing of tribes under the rule of the Khazars. In part, they are echoed by the Cambridge anonymous author. But then the question arises about the Russian Kaganate as part of the Khazar? The question is what, according to Constantine Porphyrogenitus, Russia is external, and what is internal. And what kind of Rus that destroyed Byzantium in the 8th and XNUMXth centuries.
  • Alanart
    Alanart 4 September 2021 00: 11
    +1
    Probably thanks to Gerasimov's reconstructions. Andrei Bogolyubsky is still a Mongol, for example;) By the way, according to modern computer reconstructions it looks a little different.
  • Hypertension
    Hypertension 2 September 2021 12: 06
    +2
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    I only have one question for the Author

    And my question is: When did the Russians rule the Russians? Take the period before the revolution on the 17th. Nikolai 2 is 90+ percent German. After the revolution, not all were Russian by nationality. Then - Stalin and Khrushchev. Brezhnev is debatable. Although Gorbach and Yeltsin are Russians, God forbid from such rulers. Now a bunch of Rotenbergs, Vekselbergs and other Abramovichs graze on the sidelines of the authorities. And who has business in our time? Azerbaijanis, Armenians, Jews, etc. One will involuntarily believe in the Norman theory.
    1. El Barto
      El Barto 2 September 2021 13: 49
      +6
      I’ll tell you more than that (just don’t tell anyone) - far from all Russians were Russian by nationality.
      1. Hypertension
        Hypertension 2 September 2021 15: 12
        +1
        Here's how the icing on the cake:
        Rustam Vasilievich Tariko (March 17, 1962, Menzelinsk, Tatar Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, USSR) - Russian businessman. Owner of the Russian Standard holding (a major vodka producer, Russian Standard Vodka LLC, Russian Standard Bank JSC, Russian Standard Insurance JSC, etc.).

        Russian standard in all its glory. For nothing that Vasilievich.
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 2 September 2021 21: 04
        +7
        Quote: El Barto
        I’ll tell you more than that (just don’t tell anyone) - far from all Russians were Russian by nationality.

        Yes, it is hard for "hamsters" to realize that in Pushkin there was a fraction of the blood of Arap Peter the Great, and in Lermontov - a guest worker from Scotland! Both with their biography cannot be erased from the pages of the golden age of Russian poetry. One of our first historians Tatishchev, his counterpart de Genin in letters to the sovereign called "Kalmyk muzzle", and his follower Karamzin is a descendant of the Tatar Murza. The Russian explorer Bering was a native Dutchman, however, Wrangel, Kruzenshtern and many others were born Germans. You can go on for a long time and tediously, but Russia is a multinational country and all the nations inhabiting it have something to be proud of.
        1. Hypertension
          Hypertension 2 September 2021 21: 31
          -1
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          Yes, it is hard for "hamsters" to realize that in Pushkin there was a fraction of the blood of Arap Peter the Great, and in Lermontov - a guest worker from Scotland!

          But "not hamsters" are easy. The main thing is not to forget that "Russian is not a nationality, but a state of mind."
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          The Russian explorer Bering was a native Dutchman, however, Wrangel, Kruzenshtern and many others were born Germans. You can go on long and tedious

          You can continue, but such a continuation pours water on the mill of the Norman theory ...
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 September 2021 05: 33
            +3
            Quote: Hyperion
            You can continue, but such a continuation pours water on the mill of the Norman theory ...

            Are you serious?
            Of course, I suspected that the majority represent the "Norman theory" at the level of "brothers from Sweden, oppa and the country, like two fingers on the asphalt". But not to the same "prostate".
            One of them fills me in about the developed Kiev by the beginning of the Viking campaigns. Another is about a star temple and 25 years of civilization - Ruso, Slavic, Aryans. Moreover, Nasonov and Fomenko are crying in a corner.
            The funny thing is that most of the pseudo-historians are completely ignored. The Norman theory was destroyed in the middle of the last century by Rybakov. All point.
            Who are the Rus, Varangians and Kobyaks, the question is open, how and where did they come from. They were the Prussians, the Goths, we do not know them. We can confidently say only about one thing. Scandinavian finds take place on the territory of the entire Proto-Russia. It is documented that the Russians and Varangians participated in military campaigns and trade along the Volga, Don, Dnieper and possibly Oka. There are known forays of the Ross (Rus) in the Caspian region, the lower reaches of the Volga and on the Black Sea coast. We do not have written sources about the situation in the north for a banal reason - there were no chroniclers there.
            So with a wild archaeological famine (the Slavs are called invisible people without knowing), a small number of written sources, it is ridiculous to build castles in the air and destroy them!
            1. Hypertension
              Hypertension 3 September 2021 10: 54
              -1
              Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
              Of course, I suspected that the majority represent the "Norman theory" at the level of "brothers from Sweden, oppa and the country, like two fingers on the asphalt".

              Where did you see "oppa and country" in my commentary? I did not claim that before the arrival of Rurik, the Slavs were disorganized.
              In the times of Kyev and Shchek and Khoryv Novgorod, people, the recommions of Slovenia, and Krivitsi and Meria: Slovenia had their volost, and Krivitsi theirs, and Mere theirs; kojo vladyashe of his kind

              Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
              The Norman theory was destroyed in the middle of the last century by Rybakov. All point.

              What a point, if:
              Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
              So with a wild archaeological famine (the Slavs are called invisible people without knowing), a small number of written sources, it is ridiculous to build castles in the air and destroy them!

              Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
              They were the Prussians, the Goths, we do not know them.

              We don't know, but we can guess:
              Sice bo zvakhut you Varangians rus, as all friends are called svene, druzii urmani, anglyane, ini and got, tacos and si

              The names hint:
              we ... the Ruskago clan: Karly Inegeld Farlof Veremud Rulav Gudy Ruald Karn Frelav Ruar Aktevu Truan Lidulfost Stemir
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 September 2021 17: 18
                +2
                Hyperon, dear I am not opposing you! Moreover, initially, I wanted to support you, and even now I do not refuse it.
                By the way, from the ones given by you
                Quote: Hyperion
                The names hint:
                we ... the Ruskago clan: Karly Inegeld Farlof Veremud Rulav Gudy Ruald Karn Frelav Ruar Aktevu Truan Lidulfost Stemir

                Trubetskoy singles out names of Iranian origin, Grekov wrote about the Goths. All this gives rise to interesting reflections on "Black Sea Rus". Similarly for the Dnieper rapids. On the other hand, relying on the Byzantine and Arab authors, you can easily get into a mess. Considering that the first attributed the death of Prince Igor from some forest Germans, and who then were the Drevlyans? One thing is indisputable, the Scandinavians penetrated Russia. But who were the first Rus - the Scandinavians, the Ases (Iranian-Ossetians) or the Scandinavians is an open question. Perhaps the notorious Tmutarakan was a splinter in the notorious "external Russia" of Konstantin Porphyrogenitus.
                But was she (Russia) the first, where the Scandinavians and Slavs could live in the union? Maybe it all started with the Chernyakhov culture of the union of the Goths and the Slavs? A lot of controversial things, but according to the chronicle of Byzantium, it began to hammer the latter long before the call of Rurik! However, as information about the participation of "ships of Russia" in the campaigns in the Mediterranean.
                All stop.
                With all due respect, Vlad!
                1. Hypertension
                  Hypertension 3 September 2021 18: 01
                  +1
                  Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                  But who were the first Rus - Scandinavians, Ases (Iranian-Ossetians)

                  I wonder if it's a coincidence that Ases are gods in Scandinavian mythology ..?
                  And the "vocation of the Varangians" just coincided with the era of expansion of the Vikings-Scandinavians in the VIII-XI centuries.
                  hi
                  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                    Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 September 2021 18: 22
                    +1
                    There are much more coincidences. Although it is worth trusting more archaeological ones, and they speak of the presence of Scandinavian artifacts of the 8-9 centuries in the lower reaches of the Don and Volga. Gnezdovo, Kiev can boast of this only since the 9th century. The same Ibn Faden writes directly about the role of the Russian Kagan in the Khazar Kaganate. Was it Ras Tarkhan by chance? By the way, if you believe the Byzantines, then Sakrel was built as a defense against Rosi. Ros participated in the campaigns of Byzantium against the Bulgarians and against Byzantium with the Khazars. By the way, at that time, the middle course of the Dnieper was ruled by the Magyars. Well, the last Arab authors are echoing about a certain sa-russia, al-slavia in the region of the Don and Kuban. Well, the latter I personally have not found anywhere about the conquest of Tmutarakan by Russian princes! So maybe the Cambridge Ananim is right about something?
                    1. Hypertension
                      Hypertension 3 September 2021 18: 47
                      -1
                      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                      By the way, if you believe the Byzantines, then Sakrel was built as a defense against Rosi. Ros participated in the campaigns of Byzantium against the Bulgarians and against Byzantium with the Khazars.

                      Yes, more than one source speaks about the presence of Normans / Rus in Khazaria:
                      Khazaria for a long time used the Normans, including the Rus, as mercenaries.
                      The following facts are also known about the connection between the Normans and the Khazars, indicating the service of the Normans to the Khazar Khagan:

                      In 839, the ambassadors of the Swedes-Rus named their ruler kagan.
                      In 871, Louis the German again mentions the Hagan of the Normans.
                      Masudi reports that the Rus are serving in the Khazar army.
                      The Rus attacked the enemies of Khazaria in the Caspian and Byzantium.
                      Found Khazar coins in Sweden, and possibly Khazar artifacts at Birka.
                      Khazars and Normans shared the tribute from the Slavs.

                      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                      Well, the latter I personally have not found anywhere about the conquest of Tmutarakan by Russian princes!

                      If only presumably:
                      It is believed that it happened either during the eastern campaign of Svyatoslav in 965, or during the campaign of Vladimir in Korsun in 988.

                      And then, in 988 / 1010-1036, Tmutarakan was already in the possession of Mstislav Vladimirovich.
        2. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 7 September 2021 07: 51
          0
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          Yes, it's hard for "hamsters" to realize that there was a fraction of Arap's blood in Pushkin

          You, as I understand it, do not understand the meaning of the words KIND, TRIBE, NATIONALITY, NATION, KIND HAS BEEN INTERRUPTED, DIRECT DESCENDING.
          Nationality, like the surname, as well as the patronymic is transmitted ONLY by the father.
          And counting how much% of blood flows in a particular character is from the evil one.
          And you, as I understand it, are not a Russian, that is why you are trying so hard to present Russians as a non-existent nationality.
    2. Alanart
      Alanart 4 September 2021 00: 15
      -1
      Polovtsi;) In the Russian princes there is more Polovtsian blood than a hell of a lot. Vaughn, Igor Svyatoslavovich (who is from the 'Lay') with his brother Vsevolod 3/4 Polovtsy. Yes, and in the remaining quarter there is;) The rest are also through one
      1. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 7 September 2021 07: 53
        0
        Quote: Alanart
        Polovtsi;) In the Russian princes there is more Polovtsian blood than a hell of a lot. Vaughn, Igor Svyatoslavovich (who is from the 'Lay') with his brother Vsevolod 3/4 Polovtsy. Yes, and in the remaining quarter there is;) The rest are also through one

        And how will you prove it? Works of some "historians" on a free theme?
        1. Alanart
          Alanart 7 September 2021 16: 52
          0
          Well, annals. We have no other sources.
          1. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk 8 September 2021 22: 30
            0
            Quote: Alanart
            Well, annals. We have no other sources.

            And can they, the chronicles, be completely trusted? Considering that, 1. The chronicler himself was not a participant in the events described, and 2. The chronicles were rewritten, and more than once.
      2. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 8 September 2021 22: 48
        +1
        Quote: Alanart
        There is more Polovtsian blood in the Russian princes than there is a lot of shit.

        For this to happen, the Polovtsian must impregnate the Russian princess. And then she will give birth to a prince with 50% Polovtsian blood. Is this possible? And in order for "more blood than a fucking thing" it is necessary that this prince impregnated a Polovtsian woman, and their son would become your "Russian prince with Polovtsian blood more than a fucking thing."
        All this: about the Norman theory, about the Polovtsian blood, about - "scratch a Russian and you will see a Tatar", "the famous princely surnames are Russified Tatars, Germans, Swedes, etc., that Russians are not a nationality, but a kind of" state of mind ", all from the same opera - the Russians are big-headed dorks, born in the forest and praying to the wheel, incapable of anything, and generally drunk.
        This is thrown to you under the sight of "scientists" and you, and not only you, are led to this chaff.
  • Slaven
    Slaven 6 September 2021 23: 28
    +1
    And I have another question, what kind of shit are Swedes, if they called themselves Russians?
    1. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 7 September 2021 07: 54
      -1
      Quote: Slaven
      And I have another question, what kind of shit are Swedes, if they called themselves Russians?

      This is how they introduced themselves to you - I am Russian? laughing
      1. Slaven
        Slaven 7 September 2021 15: 00
        0
        "and from those Varangians the Russian land was nicknamed"
        What are the Swedes, if they were Russians? What were they called then? Swei? So they are in the annals too. Scandinavians or not, they still argue.
        1. Alanart
          Alanart 7 September 2021 17: 01
          0
          But in Russkaya Pravda, for example, for Rusyn and Slovenin, although the vira is the same, the Rusyn goes in the listing at the beginning, and the Slovenian goes right after the outcast. Somehow not very united;) Yes, and they do not behave like that with relatives
          1. Slaven
            Slaven 7 September 2021 19: 30
            +1
            Well, the Russians were the ruling elite, like the Norman knights and Anglo-Saxons in Britain. Then, over time, indeed all Slavs in Russia will call themselves nothing more than Rusyns.
            1. Alanart
              Alanart 8 September 2021 08: 58
              0
              That is, the British and others should have been called knights, well, translated into Russian, well, or, there, patricians. But only the Slavs went this way. Moreover, only on the territory of Russia. Originally, in Russian;) Although, it turns out that if the estates are listed, then the Slovenian is also an estate, well, or a certain social status. Well, like Rusyns, swordsmen, outcasts ...;) Moreover, somewhere in the area of ​​the plinth
              1. Slaven
                Slaven 8 September 2021 10: 51
                0
                Sorry, but to be honest, I didn't understand what you mean at all. What estates are we talking about?
                1. Alanart
                  Alanart 8 September 2021 12: 21
                  +1
                  Well, there is a document (Russkaya Pravda), which says that for the murder of a tiun, a Rusyn, a swordsman, an outcast, a Slovenian vira 40 hryvnia (free retelling). What is listed? Estates / social status (conditional name), or nationalities, well, the names of tribes;) That is, either the Rus and Slovenes are a social role in the local society, or swordsmen and other tiuns with princely people are different tribes;)
                  One thing is clear that the Rusyns are closer to the top, and Slovenia is lower than the baseboard, because in an incompletely disintegrated tribal society, it can be more pitiful than an outcast. Oh, come on, there is. And, allegedly, it is related to the Rusyns (Rus). Yes, for such speeches - a fight to death! ;))))
                  1. Slaven
                    Slaven 8 September 2021 16: 55
                    0
                    Ah, now I understand. In fact, there is no way to understand how things were at all. But it was more likely that it was. About kinship, it's unlikely. Those Novgorodians, living in the capital of Russia, Novgorod, called themselves "Slavs", and they called themselves that way until Ivan 4 decided the issue of Novgorod's independence. On the whole, I agree, plusanul.
  • Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 2 September 2021 04: 54
    +6
    That is, Rome did not come to wild Europe? Was there a Russian civilization?
    1. bya965
      bya965 2 September 2021 05: 39
      +8
      Well, for example, Rome completely erased historical information about its enemy, only the roads remained, and they are clearly not Roman.

      Approximate area of ​​settlement of the Celts in Europe. The area of ​​the settlement of the proto-Celts (the ancestors of the future Celts) in 1500-1000 is highlighted in blue. BC NS.; pink - various Celtic tribes in 400 BC. e .. For orientation, the boundaries of modern states are given.

      And the Slavs lived here

      An area of ​​the Balto-Slavic dialect continuum (purple) with a putative material culture, correlated with the speakers of the Balto-Slavic language in the Bronze Age (white). Red dots - archaic Slavic hydronyms
      1. Konnick
        Konnick 2 September 2021 06: 48
        +5
        Red dots - archaic Slavic hydronyms

        Something a little archaic. If only they called it in passing. And how archaic? We were east of these places. And what can be considered Slavic hydronyms? Hydronym is the oldest witness of civilization.
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 2 September 2021 07: 38
          -4
          Quote: Konnick
          And what to consider as Slavic hydronyms


          For example, the Don River. It has always been considered a Russian name, but recently, since the time when rivers with the names Don and Dun began to open on the maps of continental Europe and Britain. In North America, the city of Toronto stands on the Don River.
          Don's word was distorted as naturally
          -Don
          -Dnipro- don prushchy
          - Dniester-don flowing
          -Dina is Duna
          -Danube
          -Donets
          -Dordogne-in France
          still not natural
          -Temsa-DONZA
          -Tiber-Dnepr
          -Tom-Don
          the name Don was no longer called rivers, but lakes in the same way.
          There are such names, for example, in Switzerland and in North America in New Jersey, there was the estate of the famous scientist Zvorykin on Lake Don - something close.
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 2 September 2021 08: 04
            0
            Nnda did not say the main thing, the hydronym Don OI is now considered not Russian, but a common human type of Indo-European, and linguists have taken this name from the Russian people. This is how historical science works.
          2. Ashes of Claes
            Ashes of Claes 2 September 2021 08: 49
            +6
            Quote: Bar1
            -Temsa-DONZA

            the Celts were the Don Cossacks .... now I know everything.
            1. Alex_1973
              Alex_1973 2 September 2021 09: 26
              +2
              Ashes of Claes
              the Celts were the Don Cossacks .... now I know everything.
              Not, not everything, you read his comments, you will learn a lot of new things. I am surprised by another thing, how he still has not substantiated that the battle for Thermopylae was won by the ancient Rus, led by "Ruskiy" (according to his version, this is how the word RUSSIAN should be written) by Tsar Leonid (well, this is a well-known Russian name), whose genus the sources ascended to Perun himself. By the way, as a baptized Old Believer, I have nothing against Perun, Veles, Dazhdbog and Lada, if that ...!
              1. Ashes of Claes
                Ashes of Claes 2 September 2021 10: 18
                +7
                Quote: Alex_1973
                Not, not everything,

                yes, I remember - "Against the razor - jacket and trousers!" (c) smile
                Incidentally,
                Quote: Bar1
                -Dina is Duna

                which leads us to the conclusion that Mao Tse Tung is Mao Transdanubia. Sic!

                By the way, the Central African river Mbomu is also Don, but the gbaia had problems with the phonemes "d" and "n".
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 2 September 2021 12: 50
                  -1
                  Quote: Ashes of Klaas
                  Quote: Alex_1973
                  Not, not everything,

                  yes, I remember - "Against the razor - jacket and trousers!" (c) smile
                  Incidentally,
                  Quote: Bar1
                  -Dina is Duna

                  which leads us to the conclusion that Mao Tse Tung is Mao Transdanubia. Sic!

                  By the way, the Central African river Mbomu is also Don, but the gbaia had problems with the phonemes "d" and "n".

                  And Hongil Dong? Gor Don? Don Quixote? Gong Don? Now the Russian (Russian) origin of all of the above does not raise doubts even among the descendants of immigrants from IeruSalim fellow
                  1. Ashes of Claes
                    Ashes of Claes 2 September 2021 14: 20
                    +5
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    And Hongil Dong? Gor Don? Don Quixote? Gong Don?

                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 2 September 2021 19: 30
                      +2
                      Don Corleone is a descendant of the Etruscans, of course hi
                      And this soulful song in Sanskrit:
                      Speak softly love
                      And hold me warm against your heart
                      I feel your words
                      The tender trembling moments start crying
                      1. Ashes of Claes
                        Ashes of Claes 3 September 2021 08: 46
                        +3
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Don Corleone is a descendant of the Etruscans, of course

                        But here you are wrong - he is a descendant of lutichi - Santa Lucia:
                        Sul m'are luccica l'astro d'argento
                        <The sun of the Aryans and lutichs from the Dnieper rapids>
                        (Neapolitans, by the way, are new glades. Sic!)
                      2. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 3 September 2021 13: 47
                        +2
                        Milanese are milyage, but about the inhabitants of Pisa is a separate conversation repeat
          3. Bar1
            Bar1 2 September 2021 15: 47
            0
            Quote: Ashes of Klaas
            the Celts were the Don Cossacks .... now I know everything.


            the Celts-Gali built the city of Parisian Lutetia i.e. Paris. Well, and Lutetia is the city of Lyutichi-Slavs.
            1. Ashes of Claes
              Ashes of Claes 2 September 2021 16: 04
              +5
              Quote: Bar1
              the Celts-Gali built the city of Parisian Lutetia i.e. Paris. Well, and Lutetia is the city of Lyutichi-Slavs.

              so Celts or Lyutici?
              1. Bar1
                Bar1 2 September 2021 16: 06
                -1
                Quote: Ashes of Klaas
                so Celts or Lyutici?


                do you want to work with your head? The Celts built Lutetia, so not either, but and.
        2. Alex_1973
          Alex_1973 2 September 2021 08: 59
          +3
          Bar1 (Timur)
          -Tom-Don
          the name Don was no longer called rivers, but lakes in the same way.
          There are such names, for example, in Switzerland and in North America in New Jersey, there was the estate of the famous scientist Zvorykin on Lake Don - something close.
          Lord, when will you calm down with your "wild imagination"? And the Russians discovered America? Was Siberia not enough for us at that time?
          I'm wondering, but the village of Paris in the Chelyabinsk region was founded by chance not by the soldiers of Charlemagne? And St. Petersburg in Florida probably was laid by Peter the Great himself? Well, just in case, as a spare capital of the "great Tartary" ...
          1. Daniil Konovalenko
            Daniil Konovalenko 2 September 2021 10: 42
            -1
            And the Russians discovered America?
            Yes.. laughing Read the stories about Sadko, there is a subtle allusion to the fat circumstances about the discovery of America by the Russians. laughing And in one of the states there is the city of Moscow, well, as if Y. Dolgoruky got there ... laughing
        3. Dzungar
          Dzungar 5 September 2021 15: 42
          0
          Well, you have some nonsense here ........
      2. Engineer
        Engineer 2 September 2021 11: 39
        +2
        This is an interesting question, but hydronyms are definitely not the earliest witnesses of civilization. For obvious reasons.
        Here is a great article on central Russia hydronyms.
        https://lingua.amursu.ru/upload/lingua/2020/4/thal_2020_4_10_104_127.pdf
        They are mostly Baltic
        In general, according to linguistics data
        repeating hydronyms move from South to North and from West to East, since their southern / western half is characterized by the archaic nature of the forming suffixes (-ets-, -ats-, -itsa-), and the northern / eastern half, on the contrary, is characterized by a diminutive character of suffixes;

        This is the most common version. The author is Kobychev, and for example she is listed on the Wiki
        1. Konnick
          Konnick 2 September 2021 13: 06
          +5
          This is the most common version. The author is Kobychev, and for example she is listed on the Wiki

          Well, on Wiki, Kobychev himself could have written.
          In central Russia, there are more ancient names, rather related to the Proto-Indo-European language. I always give an example of the name of a river from the Vladimir region, the river has the name Voininga and this name is not translated from Finnish and other languages, but has common Russian and Sanskrit roots. It can be translated equally from Sanskrit and Russian as Road (ha, gat) to War. The names Voina, Vaenga, Vonga were popular among the southern Slavs in the Middle Ages, i.e. children who were born from those who left for the war had such names. With the migration of tribes to the northeast due to climate change, some words lost their endings or were shortened. So Voininga turned into Vaenga in the north in Severomorsk. Baltic languages ​​and names are younger.
          1. Engineer
            Engineer 2 September 2021 13: 50
            +3
            Your linguistics is undoubtedly a step ahead of the Bar. But alas, it is still far from scientific.
            First river Baeha. The combination of vowels for the Slavs is completely uncharacteristic.
            Where is the popularity of the names of the South Slavs in the Middle Ages from? What is this work?
            You can etymologize anything from anything, as Bar demonstrates to us.
            From fincih it turns out quite well:
            Voye, voy, vay, vay, vay, voye - stream.

            https://kolamap.ru/toponim/top_kol/top_k13.htm
            Vaenga is completely etymologized from Finnish languages, and even with a water theme without any Vong wars
            1. Konnick
              Konnick 2 September 2021 14: 08
              +3
              From fincih it turns out quite well:
              Voye, voy, vay, vay, vay, voye - stream.

              Well, not quite like these


              First, the Vaega river.

              Only the singer Vaenga made a mistake with the spelling of the name of the river on which she was born, she must be told to correct her pseudonym. Did you find the Voining River on the globe?
              1. Engineer
                Engineer 2 September 2021 14: 16
                +1
                I'm pleasantly surprised.
                Remaining
                1. to find indications of the arrival of the southern Slavs, Poles, Bulgarians to the Vladimir region in the 12-14 century and further to the Murmansk region, and I admit that your hypothesis has a completely rational grain.
                2. Tell why and how the original "Vo" was transformed into "Wa" because in all the proposed variants of Voyk, Voying, etc. there is an "o" but no "a"

                Shl Vaenga river. I write from a compact keyboard, it's unusual, so errors
                1. Konnick
                  Konnick 2 September 2021 14: 29
                  +1
                  Remaining
                  1. to find indications of the arrival of the southern Slavs, Poles, Bulgarians to the Vladimir region in the 12-14 century and further to the Murmansk region, and I admit that your hypothesis has a completely rational grain.
                  2. Tell why and how the original "Vo" was transformed into "Wa" because in all the proposed variants of Voyk, Voying, etc. there is an "o" but no "a"


                  To the first point-
                  The opposite is true. From the Vladimir region to the south and northwest, according to the Kurgan hypothesis

                  2. Voyninga, the original name and thanks to the "deaf telephone" was transformed into Vaenga, but before that it turned into Voinga, Vonga and other names of rivers in the north-west of Russia.
                  1. Engineer
                    Engineer 2 September 2021 14: 54
                    +5
                    1. Alas, the barrow hypothesis is applicable to 4-3 thousand BC. and does not correlate in any way with the Slavic names in "Vo-" 12-14 centuries AD. Then there were neither Slavs nor Balts, nor any of the peoples known to us. Accordingly, we do not know anything at all about names or toponyms, hydronyms, etc. of those times. And it's better not to fantasize.
                    2. And what is the mechanism of the "deaf phone"? Why do the Novgorodians who were developing the Murmansk region and the Vladimir-Suzdal people of the Vladimir region suddenly give female names to the rivers, which (names) they themselves do not use, but are used by very distant Poles, Bulgarians, who are not even their neighbors?
                    In general, the transitions "a" into "o" should obey linguistic laws, and not be based on a simple consonance.
                    So why is "Warrior" as the root of the female name closer to the name of the Vaenga river than "wai" - a stream? And why is there a powerful layer of Finnish hydronyms and place names around Vonga and Vaenga? And also in the Murmansk region there is the Iokanga-Yokanga river. And the settlement of Pechenga. And everything is etymologized without problems from the Sami languages. Are there too many consonances? Isn't it easier not to produce entities and admit that all these are Finnish words?
    2. Hypertension
      Hypertension 2 September 2021 21: 46
      0
      Quote: bya965
      Well, for example, Rome completely erased historical information about its enemy, only the roads remained, and they are clearly not Roman.

      Maybe not Roman, but obviously not Russian either. Until now, we have a problem with the roads ...
      1. bya965
        bya965 3 September 2021 19: 29
        +1
        Maybe not Roman, but obviously not Russian either. Until now, we have a problem with the roads ...

        Well, probably not we are to blame, but the climate. More precisely, the January isotherm is negative, it is along this isotherm that the border of the West and Russia passes.
        + soil + low population density, you cannot build expensive roads,
        meaningless.
        We have a freezing depth from 1m to 2m, depending on when the snow falls and when the frost will blow.
        So, our roads are correct, and looking at the West with your head is not friends.
        1. Hypertension
          Hypertension 3 September 2021 20: 09
          -1
          Quote: bya965
          Well, probably not we are to blame, but the climate.

          Of course. Someone or something is always to blame, but not us. The climate in Norway, Sweden and Finland, although milder, is quite comparable to the north-west of Russia.
          Quote: bya965
          you can't build expensive roads

          How is this not possible, if possible?
          In the Moscow region, traffic has opened on the northeastern section of the toll road of the Central Ring Road (TsKAD-3), the state company Avtodor reported. 106 kilometers of the road, overgrown with a corruption scandal, connected the east and west of the region, but cost 100,8 billion rubles

          Despite the fact that the average cost of 1 km. - 47.5 million rubles.
          Quote: bya965
          We have a freezing depth from 1m to 2m

          In Alaska, at least not less, but the roads are there:

          The biggest problem with roads in Russia is corruption. They will allocate money for construction - they will master it - they will put the asphalt of a tyap-blunder without a normal trough - it will wash it out in the spring - and all over again.
          1. bya965
            bya965 4 September 2021 08: 41
            +1
            Of course. Someone or something is always to blame, but not us. The climate in Norway, Sweden and Finland, although milder, is quite comparable to the north-west of Russia.

            I wrote to you "soil", but in your "correct countries of Scandinavia" rocky soil (he doesn't care about freezing, like moisture, too), which itself is an excellent building material.
            In addition, the sea there is not freezing and the climate along the sea is mild, the temperature is above zero even in the north of Norway, a little higher and cold, but for some reason all Norwegian athletes and skiers are allergic to cold air, but for some reason we are not. Weird.

            In Alaska, at least not less, but the roads are there:

            But don't. Read here in detail and a comparison of Alaska and Kolyma:
            https://kak-eto-sdelano.livejournal.com/341717.html


            photo from there
            1. Hypertension
              Hypertension 4 September 2021 12: 10
              -4
              Quote: bya965
              Read here in detail and comparison of Alaska and Kolyma

              I read this post. There is a photo of some very fierce American outback, and in the video you can see for yourself the quality of the roads.
              As I wrote earlier: corruption is the wildest - this is the root of all troubles in Russia, and not only in terms of roads.
              There are technologies, there are modern materials that can smooth out climatic conditions.
              How many videos in the cities of the Russian Federation where the Dzhamshuts put asphalt on a heap - no normal trough, no tamping. Two floats, three flops.
              And here's how it should be:

              But it will not be possible to cut the loot on this, therefore, disposable roads are built every year.
              1. bya965
                bya965 4 September 2021 16: 30
                0
                Most of all saw the loot in the developed democracies. Therefore, if you therefore have a complex, go there.
                We'll figure it out ourselves somehow. Drive on good roads.
                1. Hypertension
                  Hypertension 4 September 2021 17: 22
                  -1
                  Quote: bya965
                  Most of all saw the loot in the countries of developed democracies.

                  Did Kiselev tell you this on TV?
                  Quote: bya965
                  We'll figure it out ourselves somehow.

                  "Somehow" is not necessary. It should be "properly".
                  1. bya965
                    bya965 4 September 2021 17: 58
                    0
                    Did Kiselev tell you this on TV?

                    Who told you?
                    1 trillion Afghan US Germany. And "green energy", and the closure of nuclear power plants in France.
                    "the right way"

                    or continue?

                    Thieves and corruption have been and will be. Of course, we must fight with them. But with a cold head, a warm heart and clean hands. And not to whine and think with your own head, and not that the calf mumbles or the enemy Navalny.
                    1. Hypertension
                      Hypertension 4 September 2021 18: 18
                      -1
                      Quote: bya965
                      Who told you?

                      Various rating reports. For example:
                      The international anti-corruption movement Transparency International has published the Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI) for 2020. This time Russia scored 30 points out of 100 and took 129th place out of 180. Azerbaijan, Gabon, Malawi and Mali scored the same number.

                      How do you like this nice neighborhood?
                      Or here are the records that we deserve:

                      Quote: bya965
                      1 trillion Afghan US

                      They print these trillions - they can afford and spend them. They and for the army 740 billion a year is not a question of unfastening.
                      Quote: bya965
                      around the end of 70 - read about selling ordinary army hammers for $ 400, for $ 400 in 1976, CARL !!!

                      In the Union about the United States they just didn’t write. "And in the US, blacks are lynched."
                      Quote: bya965
                      how many submarines and ships can now go to sea in Germany.

                      Let's stop on the roads for now. By the way, Germany can boast of them.
                    2. Dzungar
                      Dzungar 5 September 2021 17: 00
                      +1
                      In the Union about the United States, they just didn’t write.
                      The international anti-corruption movement Transparency International will write about everything about Russia, if only there is more shit. I do not argue that now we have a lot of corruption in Russia, but your holy faith in international (read American) rating organizations is surprising, with the same holy faith in the "falsity of Soviet propaganda"
                    3. Hypertension
                      Hypertension 5 September 2021 18: 32
                      -1
                      Quote: Dzungar
                      but your holy belief in international (read American) rating organizations is surprising,

                      I do not have any "holy faith" in American organizations, it’s in vain. As in the "falsity of Soviet propaganda."
                      Do you need to get global data from somewhere? It is not my fault that in Russia lured statisticians do not often give out this kind of information. And I regard the American as something like "there is no smoke without fire," and not as the ultimate truth. And all this "smoke" is very harmoniously superimposed on the situation with corruption, which I see directly in the Russian media, personal communication, on the Internet, etc. So you yourself are aware of corruption in Russia.
                      And the fact that Russia will be in 105th place or 110th is already a detail.
  • Region-25.rus
    Region-25.rus 2 September 2021 15: 46
    +3
    Only I have someone who says this about - then where in European languages, including Russian, a bunch of Latinisms - primus, circus, mobility, authority, aquarium, dominant, constant, number, occupation ... and so on .. and so on ...?
    1. Tavrik
      Tavrik 3 September 2021 18: 55
      +5
      Because before we were all one people and lived on the same side of the flat earth. And dinosaurs on the other. Then a meteorite fell on the side of the dinosaurs and the Earth wrapped itself in a ball like a dumpling, and the dinosaurs were inside. Therefore, we are now digging them out of there. And people didn’t fall because they were attached to clinics. belay
      This is not mine, from the depths of the Net.
      1. Region-25.rus
        Region-25.rus 3 September 2021 19: 59
        0
        This is not mine, from the depths of the Net.
        I confess .. not surprised wassat
  • BISMARCK94
    BISMARCK94 2 September 2021 05: 09
    +15
    I love the smell of conspiracy theories in the morning
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 2 September 2021 05: 43
    0
    Right. There were no other ethnic civilizations in Europe. We boldly follow Ukrainian historical research. We are so calm. And let them prove their affiliation. We are all Russians. Neither Russians nor representatives of other nationalities. Just Russians. Political correctness above all.
  • Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 2 September 2021 05: 46
    -3
    And there is also a theory that the Americans took Berlin in 1945 in alliance with the Ukrainians.
    History easily changes to please politicians.
    Therefore, it must rely on concrete facts that no one can refute ... And when there is at least one grain of doubt, generously scattered for example by the author of the article, history becomes an interpretation or a hypothesis that requires irrefutable proof.
    1. El Barto
      El Barto 2 September 2021 14: 01
      +2
      Not with the Americans, but with the Belarusians. Fronts, then 1 Ukrainian and 1 Belarusian.
      Since there were no Russian fronts, the Russians did not take part in the war.
  • parusnik
    parusnik 2 September 2021 06: 04
    +3
    September 2, the beginning of the autumn exacerbation. The author, calm down, the fears are gone, everything is fine. From Lisbon to Vladivostok, the Russians lived, they and Lisbon founded and named it after the fox, companion, Slavic goddess Mokosh, Lisbo (guinea), this is later they are insidious Westernizers, they changed the name in their own way, but you cannot kill the truth. And Lisbon itself, well, a typical Russian province, with ancient Russian, pre-Christian architecture, the remains of which are still there. smile
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 2 September 2021 07: 11
      +8
      September 2, the beginning of the autumn aggravation.

      Obviously, you are right, because in 2012 the same article was published on the site almost on the same day - September 3. Those interested can check. Apparently in September, Sanka Barashkov's adherents become more active.
      The enemies of the Russian world and the people need to hide the truth, otherwise the Russians, realizing their true place in world history, will become practically invincible and challenge the current global (Western) project of human enslavement.

      That is, according to the author's assertion, from Peter the Great to the present day (!), All the leaders of the Russian Empire - the USSR-RF - are the principal enemies of the Russian world and the people, hiding the historical truth from them and preventing them from becoming invincible.
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 2 September 2021 07: 15
        0
        I read the article and did not find there what you voiced and incriminate against the author ... It smells of slander and lies.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 2 September 2021 07: 35
          +2
          I read the article and did not find it

          Today, not everyone can look tomorrow
          Rather, everyone can watch, but not everyone can see.
          1. Lech from Android.
            Lech from Android. 2 September 2021 07: 53
            +3
            Everyone sees what he wants to see in a bottle of wine, some harm ... others a holiday. smile
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 2 September 2021 12: 59
              0
              Quote: Lech from Android.
              Everyone sees what he wants to see in a bottle of wine, some harm ... others a holiday. smile

              It's good that tomorrow is Friday, and not like the day after tomorrow
          2. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 2 September 2021 12: 59
            +2
            Quote: Undecim
            I read the article and did not find it

            Today, not everyone can look tomorrow
            Rather, everyone can watch, but not everyone can see.

            But only those who are not all can understand that against the background of the dollar exchange rate, the goods have fallen in price, although they have risen in price.
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 2 September 2021 07: 23
        +6
        That's right, on September 1, the author is busy: Knowledge Day, a ruler and all that ... He also has a pedagogical education.
        1. Ashes of Claes
          Ashes of Claes 2 September 2021 09: 29
          +3
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          That's right, on September 1, the author is busy: Knowledge Day, a ruler and all that ...

          and from this year also the raising of the flag. As far as I understand, it is logical for the author not to raise the tricolor, but, say, to raise the Kolovrat or Svarozich. And a first grader with a bell. And the bell, according to Comrade Zadornov, is a circle, sun, light - from here color and the sun-bell and clock.
          The hallucinogenic recipe is attached ...
          1. Region-25.rus
            Region-25.rus 3 September 2021 20: 02
            +2
            and from this year also the raising of the flag.
            I hope they will not sing the anthem in the morning (only of which country?) With their hand to their chest. Or will they start throwing a ridge? With exclamations - "we are Russians! God is with us!" (got mit uns)
      3. Reader 47
        Reader 47 2 September 2021 07: 28
        +3
        Read the article again. You have not understood anything.
        1. Lech from Android.
          Lech from Android. 2 September 2021 07: 34
          +2
          I read it again ... there are no extremist appeals, maybe someone does not like the author's view of the history of the origin of Russia, well, the author is not to blame for this. hi
          It cannot adapt to every reader.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 2 September 2021 08: 12
            +1
            I read it again ...

            Well, then everything is according to the saying ...
            She did not appear from scratch, did she?
      4. Bar1
        Bar1 2 September 2021 07: 57
        -1
        Quote: Undecim
        That is, according to the author's assertion, from Peter the Great to the present day (!), All the leaders of the Russian Empire - the USSR-RF - are the principal enemies of the Russian world and the people, hiding the historical truth from them and preventing them from becoming invincible.


        finally you get it.
        How else to call the facts that Russian history is written by non-Russians? Germans and all sorts of non-Germans, why does all this nerus climb into Russian history?
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 2 September 2021 08: 17
          +5
          That is, Soloviev, Tatishchev, Karamzin, Pogodin, Aksakov, Klyuchevsky, Kostomarov are all non-Russians?
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 2 September 2021 08: 29
            +2
            Quote: Undecim
            That is, Soloviev, Tatishchev, Karamzin, Pogodin, Aksakov, Klyuchevsky, Kostomarov are all non-Russians?


            and the devil knows who they are? The Romanovs, too, seem to be Russian Peter1, but looking at his portrait, you understand that this is not so.
            The heroes of 1812 "Russian generals" did not speak Russian and ended their lives (left there) in Germany and France.
            And the "Russian" historical science from Peter was based on the works of non-Russians. From Peter to the middle of the 19th century -150 years in the Academy of Sciences there were only THREE Russian historical academicians, counting Lomonosov, who was not a specialized historian.
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 2 September 2021 09: 35
              +5
              The heroes of 1812 "Russian generals" did not speak Russian and ended their lives (left there) in Germany and France.

              Well, you really are completely lying.
              Kutuzov, Vasilchikov, Golitsyn, Volkonsky, Orlov, Ermolov and many, many others - are they also all Germans?
              1. Bar1
                Bar1 2 September 2021 15: 22
                -2
                Quote: Undecim
                Well, you really are completely lying.
                Kutuzov, Vasilchikov, Golitsyn, Volkonsky, Orlov, Ermolov and many, many others - are they also all Germans?


                First Tsar Alexander1 Romanov is not Russian
                army commanders
                -Barklay-De Toli-1st Western Army. Died in Prussia.
                -Bagration-2nd western army
                -Benigsen -beginning main headquarters and went home to Hanover.
                everyone is not Russian

                indicative of the 1st Western Army.

                in the 1st Western Army
                -Wittgenstein-1 Infantry Corps
                -Baggovut-2nd Infantry Corps
                -Osterman -Tolstoy (not bad, go figure it out, whose will be) -4 infantry corps
                - Tsarevich Konstantin - 5th Infantry Corps Romanov - German

                and in general, if you look at the general list of all the generals of the war of 1812, then the foreigners will be HALF of the payroll.
                https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Список_российских_командиров_Наполеоновских_и_Революционных_войн

                portraits, for example, General Trubetskoy



                such "Russian" does not exist.

                so you don’t have to lie.
            2. Region-25.rus
              Region-25.rus 3 September 2021 20: 03
              +2
              The Romanovs seem to be Russian Peter, too, but looking at his portrait you understand that this is not so.
              Are there parameters for measuring the skull for "Russianness"? wassat
          2. Vsevolod
            Vsevolod 2 September 2021 11: 33
            +4
            You, like, call yourself Russian too, but in reality - you will get out.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 2 September 2021 13: 03
              +2
              Quote: Vsevolod
              You, like, call yourself Russian too, but in reality - you will get out.

              Vyrus - Yasi's historical companion!
          3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 2 September 2021 11: 57
            +1
            Quote: Undecim
            That is, Soloviev, Tatishchev, Karamzin, Pogodin, Aksakov, Klyuchevsky, Kostomarov are all non-Russians?

            Karamzin is a descendant of the Russified Tatars, Tatishchev was called "Kalmyk muzzle" (moreover, in an official letter to Peter the Great, Aksakov ...)
            You can go on for a long time, only all the names of the luminaries of our national - Russian history, listed by you, Viktor Nikolaevich !!!
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 2 September 2021 12: 03
              -4
              luminaries of our patriotic - Russian history !!!

              Tim and Seva and Stasik who joined them disagree. They have Shurik Barashkov luminary.
            2. Vsevolod
              Vsevolod 2 September 2021 14: 42
              -2
              Segur's Korefans.
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 2 September 2021 13: 02
          +4
          Quote: Bar1


          finally you get it.
          How else to call the facts that Russian history is written by non-Russians? Germans and all sorts of non-Germans, why does all this nerus climb into Russian history?

          Another thing is scary! Nerus climbs into physics, insolently writing its laws, supposedly acting, among other things, on the Land of Rosov!
          1. El Barto
            El Barto 2 September 2021 14: 11
            +1
            Nenuacho. Here, hoping for VO, there was an article about Afghanistan, only there for some reason it was not about Afghanistan and politics, but about the fact that quantum physics proved Kant's ideas interspersed with the existence of God.

            The time of militant obscurantism is coming. Here are anti-vaccine doctors, and physicists-subjective idealists, and this is all in history
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 2 September 2021 14: 57
              +3
              And the Earth is flat, and the Slavs are the fathers of the Aryan civilization, and we speak in a modified Sanskrit ..
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 2 September 2021 15: 22
                +2
                Judging by the shaft of minuses, the next batch of "Aryans" has gone.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 2 September 2021 15: 37
                  +3
                  Well, Duc of the owner of the haplogroup R1U2S3, everything is obvious - the genetic memory retained the picture of the worship of the Hindus idol Makoshi on the banks of the Ganges
        3. Dzungar
          Dzungar 5 September 2021 17: 27
          +1
          How else to call the facts that Russian history is written by non-Russians? Germans and all sorts of non-Germans, why does all this nerus climb into Russian history?
          Yegor Klassen, Tadeusz Volansky, Alexander Veltman .... Yes, but why are these non-Russians getting into Russian history ... ??? Bggg ..!
      5. Dzungar
        Dzungar 5 September 2021 17: 21
        0
        according to the author's assertion, from Peter the Great to the present day (!), all the leaders of the Russian Empire - the USSR-RF are the principal enemies of the Russian world and the people
        The Russians in this case, at least several times, had to die out together with the Russian State. However - we live
    2. Reader 47
      Reader 47 2 September 2021 07: 26
      .
      Quote: parusnik
      September 2, the beginning of the autumn exacerbation. The author, calm down, the fears are gone, everything is fine. From Lisbon to Vladivostok, the Russians lived, they and Lisbon founded and named it after the fox, companion, Slavic goddess Mokosh, Lisbo (guinea), this is later they are insidious Westernizers, they changed the name in their own way, but you cannot kill the truth. And Lisbon itself, well, a typical Russian province, with ancient Russian, pre-Christian architecture, the remains of which are still there. smile

      It looks like irony, but when stupid people are ironic, it can be called quasi-irony.
  • Sneaky Urus
    Sneaky Urus 2 September 2021 07: 10
    +1
    What utter nonsense. The author should not smoke this herb.
    1. Reader 47
      Reader 47 2 September 2021 07: 27
      -5
      Is your idle talk better?
      1. Sneaky Urus
        Sneaky Urus 2 September 2021 10: 47
        0
        You see what's the matter. Let's say there is a person who understands the issue. Not necessarily a historian. He is approached with completely wild theses and opinions. How should a specialist react? Start a long monologue with the involvement of specialized scientific disciplines, refer to the laws of physics / rules of mathematics or there historical sources? It's easier to send a moron to.
    2. Bar1
      Bar1 2 September 2021 07: 58
      -2
      Quote: Sneaky Urus
      What utter nonsense. The author should not smoke this herb.


      Is Urus a Nerus?
    3. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 2 September 2021 13: 04
      0
      Quote: Sneaky Urus
      What utter nonsense. The author should not smoke this herb.

      There are stamps. With a Kolovrat. From Albert Hoffman. hi
      1. El Barto
        El Barto 2 September 2021 14: 21
        +1
        stamps are not halal. The Varangians took a decoction of mushrooms. Just the season. He ate a mushroom broth, chewed on the shield, and with all his fury let's smash the enemies of Russian history
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 2 September 2021 19: 27
          0
          Berserker - chelmedved in Sanskrit
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 2 September 2021 07: 18
    +8
    And the real history of the Ancient World and Europe was completely different.
    But the author has not invented it yet.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 2 September 2021 17: 36
      0
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      And the real history of the Ancient World and Europe was completely different.
      But the author has not invented it yet.

      Anton is just with the ancient world and Europe. The author figured it out, right from the creation of the "Star Temple". However, all this can be reduced to one thesis that the "masters of the West" are to blame.
      At one time, Michael, who (the owner of the trilobite) deduced an interesting theory. The most significant thing is to put forward a loud and absurd thesis and then begin to fight with it not on the stomach to death.
      So today, 205 comments at 17:00 Moscow time. But the most important catch of the situation is neither I, not you, not many of our company are convinced "Normanists", but the hamsters are chopping us.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 2 September 2021 19: 26
        +3
        We regard "Normanism" as a theory, and anti-Normanism hamsters - as a dogma.
    2. Konstantin Shevchenko
      Konstantin Shevchenko 2 September 2021 23: 28
      -1
      The author does not have to invent it, it was already invented and painted in all instances. Fantasy pours from the officials, and alternatives try to find logic in fantasy. This is just funny, because fictional story, you can find fictional truth. Funny and here and the officials with a clever look with the motto "I have not read, but I condemn." But no one has proofs.
      1. El Barto
        El Barto 3 September 2021 12: 03
        +2
        Exactly. "Officials" is the correct word. Here recently a well-known politician told children (on camera) how in Seven Years War Peter 1 smashed the Swedes.
  • Gardamir
    Gardamir 2 September 2021 07: 19
    +9
    It's funny how many are willing to believe Bayer Schlezer. But at least tell me, there really were no Polabian Slavs, Lusatian Serbs. The same Lithuanians, before the conquest by the Germans, spoke a language similar to Slavic
    In the end, right now, before our very eyes, Lviv, Ivanovo-Frankivsk Ukrainians pollinate Malorosov.
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 2 September 2021 07: 22
      +11
      In Kosovo, the Kosovars are destroying monuments, temples, cemeteries of Serbs ... In general, everything connected with the Serbs ... And then the Kosovars will begin to assert that Kosovo historically belonged to them and the Serbs have never been there.
      This is how the history of the Slavic peoples is being rewritten.
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 2 September 2021 08: 00
        +3
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        And then the Kosovars will begin to assert that Kosovo has historically belonged to them and the Serbs have never been there.


        Imagine that the Latins did the same with the Etruscans, who built the WORLD / Rome and gave the world all this culture, which is considered Latin / Roman.
        1. Ashes of Claes
          Ashes of Claes 2 September 2021 09: 34
          +2
          Quote: Bar1
          and built WORLD / Rome

          is this in the sense of the Reich / Heyer?
          1. Region-25.rus
            Region-25.rus 3 September 2021 20: 14
            -1
            is this in the sense of the Reich / Heyer?
            in the sense of another adherent of the "new" chronology. In the style - "Etruscans are RUSSIAN" laughing
      2. Daniil Konovalenko
        Daniil Konovalenko 2 September 2021 08: 08
        +3
        In Kosovo, the Kosovars are destroying monuments, temples, cemeteries of Serbs ... In general, everything connected with the Serbs ...
        As we have with the mausoleum on May 9, they close, and then open, here it is, but it is not. It seems like they threw the banners of defeated Nazi Germany to the mausoleum in 1945 and it seemed like a parade passed by it, but it didn’t seem to pass.
        1. Lech from Android.
          Lech from Android. 2 September 2021 08: 23
          +3
          And Kolya from Urengoy claims that the Nazi soldiers are innocent victims of the Second World War and they must be forgiven and pitied.
          They try to sell us any bullshit so that we forget the victories of our heroically ancestors.
          1. Daniil Konovalenko
            Daniil Konovalenko 2 September 2021 08: 30
            -2
            Here's Samsonov and vparivayets you and not even history, but some tales from the crypt, about how they rewrote history and just gag.
            1. Lech from Android.
              Lech from Android. 2 September 2021 08: 33
              0
              And let him write ... At least it will not be boring to read the comments. smile
            2. Konstantin Shevchenko
              Konstantin Shevchenko 2 September 2021 23: 31
              +2
              Here Samsonov also writes that they are selling bullshit, not history.
          2. Ashes of Claes
            Ashes of Claes 2 September 2021 09: 16
            +1
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            They try to sell us any bullshit so that we forget the victories of our heroically ancestors.

            What does the dispute between Normanists and Anti-Normanists have to do with the heroism of your ancestors? What does # kolyasurengoy have to do with it? What you call "any bullshit" originates from the dispute between Lomonosov and Miller.
      3. kalibr
        kalibr 2 September 2021 08: 20
        +4
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        This is how the history of the Slavic peoples is being rewritten.

        And they, the peoples, only clap their ears. And once again about rewriting. That the Germans rewrote all 5000 volumes of Russian chronicles, right? And for how many years?
        1. Daniil Konovalenko
          Daniil Konovalenko 2 September 2021 08: 34
          0
          That the Germans rewrote all 5000 volumes of Russian chronicles, right? And for how many years?
          This is not even taken into account, like archaeological excavations and much more, another sketch. Vaschenko tries to "enlighten" in his articles, but they do not believe him smile It is easier to believe that a tiger is not given meat in a zoo. laughing
        2. Ashes of Claes
          Ashes of Claes 2 September 2021 10: 39
          0
          Quote: kalibr
          And they, the peoples, only clap their ears.

          Yes, because, excuse me, they do not care about the paranoia of the ascetics who claim that the names of the waterfalls in Tasmania come from the hydronym "Dnepr", and the conquistadors in the Amazon stumbled upon Vedic temples. Well, with Soviet anti-Normanism it is clear - "the party teaches us that the Varangian-Scandinavian theory is on anti-Marxist positions ..." and so on. What incentive do they have now? Is everyone fighting Russophobia? What is the purpose of popularizing delirium? To pure science, this is generally no sideways after all.
        3. El Barto
          El Barto 4 September 2021 20: 52
          0
          That's honest, how can you get it all out?
          Well, after all, fu your stories.
          Nothing about helmets and armor, but vomit about the Soviet Union
          What for?
          It's all a lie
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 2 September 2021 08: 27
        0
        And why rewrite, they could simply destroy valuable books with factual material. hi
        How many libraries with such books burned out.
        But then why rewrite all 5000 books ... You can fake a manuscript and pass it off as a real one.
        The famous Conan Doyle also dabbled in forging ancient animal bones ...
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 2 September 2021 08: 52
          +3
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          You can fake a manuscript and pass it off as a real one.

          And what kind of manuscript have we forged? And even so we know the Russian language that philologists and linguists have not yet discovered this? Maybe you can name him?
          1. Lech from Android.
            Lech from Android. 2 September 2021 09: 05
            0
            I will not name what not special in such matters ... and they did not report to me.
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 2 September 2021 09: 10
              +5
              Quote: Lech from Android.
              not special in such matters.

              You see! And write in a peremptory tone ... I gave in an article about falsification of chronicles a sample of how easily and without difficulty it would be possible to forge a message about the Battle on the Ice - I am legally proud of this text. But ... he's just my invention. In reality, there is nothing in the annals that somehow begs us in comparison with other peoples.
              1. Lech from Android.
                Lech from Android. 2 September 2021 09: 20
                0
                I just do not believe the Germans ... our people gathered Russia to the Pacific Ocean ... the weak-minded and dependent people could not do this in any way.
                1. kalibr
                  kalibr 2 September 2021 09: 26
                  +5
                  Quote: Lech from Android.
                  the weak-minded and dependent people could not do this in any way.

                  That's it! But where in which books did the Germans write that our people are dependent and weak in spirit? Maybe the Arabs wrote this? No! Byzantines? Also not ... Then who?
                  1. Glory1974
                    Glory1974 2 September 2021 09: 51
                    0
                    But where in which books did the Germans write that our people are dependent and weak in spirit?

                    The Norman theory itself assumes that the Slavs are not able to govern themselves and invited the Varangians for this. This was the basis of Hitler's plan, which, quite in the spirit of this theory, assumed that the Germans would rule the Slavic lands. book "mein kampf".
                    1. kalibr
                      kalibr 2 September 2021 10: 47
                      +2
                      But the Norman theory came before Hitler. When the gold ruble was a world will, and the armies of the Russian tsar were feared like plague ... But the British were conquered by the French in 1066 and nothing, no complexes.
                      1. Glory1974
                        Glory1974 2 September 2021 13: 57
                        0
                        the Norman theory appeared before Hitler.

                        Of course, I don't argue with that. But he used it to substantiate that the Slavs are second-class people.
                        When the gold ruble was a world will, and the armies of the Russian tsar were feared like plague ... But the British were conquered by the French in 1066 and nothing, no complexes.

                        Maybe there were moments when they were afraid, but it seems to me that you are embellishing. They always fought almost on an equal footing with varying degrees of success.
                        The complexes of the British are of little interest to me. I am interested in the truth, as it really was.
                      2. kalibr
                        kalibr 2 September 2021 14: 01
                        0
                        Are you familiar with the expression "Russia is the gendarme of Europe"? The Vienna Congress and subsequent events are also considered at school ... we only lost ground after the Eastern War, but made up for under Alexander !!!
                      3. kalibr
                        kalibr 2 September 2021 14: 03
                        0
                        Quote: glory1974
                        But he used it to substantiate that the Slavs are second-class people.

                        So what? Was it specially created in the past with the expectation that it will be used by Hitler in the future?
                      4. Glory1974
                        Glory1974 2 September 2021 14: 14
                        -1
                        Was it specially created in the past with the expectation that it will be used by Hitler in the future?

                        This is roughly how it is. Created to use it in the future to justify the seizure of power. Power can be seized by force, but it is difficult to keep it. Therefore, justifications are invented. Hereditary leaders, elites, monarchs, etc.
                      5. kalibr
                        kalibr 2 September 2021 18: 47
                        +1
                        Quote: glory1974
                        Designed to be used in the future to justify the seizure of power

                        You will also write that its creators had a time machine.
                      6. Glory1974
                        Glory1974 3 September 2021 08: 48
                        -2
                        You will also write that its creators had a time machine.

                        Unfortunately, there is no time machine, although it may be done someday.
                        But there are methods to predict the course of events. At the household level, we plan to finish school, go to college, get a job, etc. For this we need to do the following things ...
                        At the state level, everything is more complicated, but the principle is the same. In our country, the planning horizon is 5-10 years, in China, the development of society is planned for 10-50-100 years. That is, what is being laid down now should work in 100 years. Without knowing this, we can assume that this is a fantasy, it does not happen, everything will change over such a period.
                        You are a historian, you should know how the Romanovs came to power, how they tried to legitimize it. Likewise in other countries.
                      7. Sergey1964
                        Sergey1964 3 September 2021 12: 25
                        +3
                        Quote: glory1974
                        in China, the development of society is planned for a period of 10-50-100 years. That is, what is being laid now should work in 100 years.

                        I worked with the Chinese, but this is the first time I hear that their society is planned for 100 years in advance.
                        Quote: glory1974
                        Without knowing this, we can assume that this is a fantasy, it does not happen, everything will change over such a period.

                        This is just a fantasy, and everything will really change in such a period. New technologies will appear, as some specialties will die out, some will arise from scratch ... some alliances of states will disintegrate, some will arise ... I want to remind you that 50 years before the creation of nuclear weapons (which radically changed the alignment forces on the world stage and the nature of military operations) even the phenomenon of radioactivity was unknown, Becquerel accidentally discovered radioactivity only in 1896. And not a single science fiction writer of the 50s of the 20th century known to me could predict the emergence of the Internet - not to mention the impact that the Internet would have on society and on the economy. What the fuck is planning 50 years, let alone 100? In the USSR, they planned for a five-year plan, and that did not work out very well.
                      8. Glory1974
                        Glory1974 6 September 2021 09: 06
                        -1
                        I worked with the Chinese, but this is the first time I hear that their society is planned for 100 years in advance.

                        I also listened to the Moonlight Sonata once and did not like it. Izya whistled her to me. wassat
                        If you worked in the Chinese Communist Party and communicated with those who make forecasts, you would speak differently.
                        This is just a fantasy, and everything will really change in such a period. New technologies will appear, as some specialties will die out, some will arise from scratch.

                        For example, specific actions of the United States, where planning and forecasting are also done for decades. The United States refused to recognize the Baltic republics as part of the USSR and did everything to make it so. 40 years later, they left the USSR.
                        They began to support Ukrainian nationalists in 1949, after 1991 they got results.
                        What is this if not planning your actions?
                        You started with the word "predict" and immediately changed it to "plan." Forecast and plan are two different things.

                        Projection and planning are part of the whole. The forecast considers several options, the plan considers how to achieve the optimal one.
                    2. Sergey1964
                      Sergey1964 3 September 2021 12: 36
                      0
                      PS
                      Quote: glory1974
                      But there are methods to predict the course of events. At the household level, we plan to finish school, go to college, get a job, etc.

                      You started with the word "predict" and immediately changed it to "plan." Forecast and plan are two different things. Daladier and Chamberlain in 1938 in Munich planned to appease Hitler at the expense of Czechoslovakia. But they could not predict that in 2 years German soldiers would march through the streets of Paris, and German bombers would drop bombs on London.
            2. Ashes of Claes
              Ashes of Claes 2 September 2021 14: 30
              0
              Quote: glory1974
              But he used it to substantiate that the Slavs are second-class people.

              Quote: glory1974
              book "mein kampf".

              and where exactly in Mein Kampf the discourse about the Slavs as second-class people? If "he used", then why in the 1935 Nuremberg racial law? there is nothing about the Slavs?
        2. El Barto
          El Barto 2 September 2021 14: 29
          +2
          The Norman theory assumes nothing of the kind. She only finds the roots of the ruling dynasty in Scandinavia.
          What the cunning politicians invented from this has nothing to do with either history as a science, or, by the way, with scientific views on the origin of the state.
      2. Bar1
        Bar1 2 September 2021 16: 42
        -4
        Quote: kalibr
        That's it! But where in which books did the Germans write that our people are dependent and weak in spirit? Maybe the Arabs wrote this? No! Byzantines? Also not ... Then who?


        you don't have to go far, this is an "outstanding" philologist-Slavist / Balkanist German, a rare bastard Russophobe Max Fasmer from whom ALL civilizational Russian words are borrowed.
        The question arises, how can it be that an IDEOLOGICAL DIVERSION took place in the USSR immediately after the war? This fully characterizes the Soviet historical science, they were historians against the Russian people.
      3. Bar1
        Bar1 3 September 2021 13: 19
        -2
        Quote: kalibr
        That's it! But where in which books did the Germans write that our people are dependent and weak in spirit? Maybe the Arabs wrote this? No! Byzantines? Also not ... Then who?


        exactly who, he is Gerard Miller in the book "On the people who lived in Russia since ancient times"
        you, as a historian, should know about this book.

        https://www.litres.ru/gerard-miller/o-narodah-izdrevle-v-rossii-obitavshih/





        so the source of the vile fake is clear.
        But there are also direct followers, this is a certain Gundyaev. The Slavs are beasts.


  • Glory1974
    Glory1974 2 September 2021 09: 55
    0
    In reality, there is nothing in the annals that somehow begs us in comparison with other peoples.

    Nobody reads the chronicles. Read and study from the work of researchers. I doubt that Zelensky read the chronicle about the digging of the Black Sea by ukrami. But this does not prevent him from telling about it.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 2 September 2021 10: 49
      +2
      Quote: glory1974
      Nobody reads the chronicles. Read and study from the work of researchers.

      So the researchers do read it, right? And so they say that ... there is nothing "such" there. On the contrary, inviting an authoritative leader in the past only increased the legitimacy of one's own power. By the way, try reading them, and only then express your opinion, right?
      1. Glory1974
        Glory1974 2 September 2021 14: 02
        0
        inviting an authoritative leader in the past only increased the legitimacy of their own power.

        I wonder how you imagine the invitation of an authoritative leader? Who confirms his authority, why his leader cannot be an authority, why it is impossible to invite only mercenaries, so as not to share power with the newcomer, etc. There are a lot of questions that are not built into the logical scheme, and they can only be taken on faith, supposedly it was so accepted earlier.
        Researchers of course read it, no one argues, but they can interpret it in different ways. Have you read our history textbooks, where one fact is interpreted in different ways?
        try to read them, and only then express your opinion, right?

        What are you talking about? Have you decided to feel your moral superiority? I thought better of you. Such behavior is unforgivable for a teacher.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 2 September 2021 18: 50
          0
          Quote: glory1974
          There are a lot of questions that are not built into the logical scheme, and they can only be taken on faith, supposedly it was so accepted earlier.

          Read more, there will be fewer questions.
          Quote: glory1974
          Such behavior is unforgivable for a teacher.

          Who told you that I am a teacher? The profession is not nailed to me.
          I have been retired for a long time, so I can easily send all ignorant people who understand about myself and send them. And I'm sending!
  • Bar1
    Bar1 2 September 2021 15: 30
    -5
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    I will not name no specialist in such matters ... but they did not report to me.


    well, what are you.
    See Fomenko and Nosovsky "Forgery of the Radziwill Chronicle.



    I analyzed the Code of Law of 1497 of Ivan 3, the law on St. George's Day, so there is a logical inconsistency, how can any conclusions be drawn from it? Such a content is attributed to this law that it does not make sense at all.

    in reading OI
    About Christian denial (permission)
    Christians are refused (permitted) from the volost from village to village for one term per year on St. George's day before and after.
    What is allowed? It doesn’t say. The law is good.

    In my reading.
    Christians are refused from the volost of Issekh (to move out) to the village for one term a year on St. George's day before and after.
    At least I have completed the logic of the proposal, but according to the OI and this is not.
    This is how old texts are "translated" for us.
  • awdrgy
    awdrgy 2 September 2021 08: 58
    +5
    Luzhitsky Serbs, thank God, are still there. Someone has a bone in their throat. They are not yet assimilated, because they can always say a simple phrase: - Our wise and noble ancestors ... and yours at this time ... well, something there about goats and their grazing. There is no more serious crime from the point of view of those who have been driving Osten drag nachs for centuries. You've probably seen how arrogant the Western elite is, how arrogant ... how condescending in communication. And not the elite either. Recognize your "secondary nature" in the territories of northeastern, and possibly central Germany, recognize yourself as invaders and aggressors, in fact occupiers, moreover less ancient, noble and civilized. Even at least equal to those whose lands were taken away to expand their own living space ... This is completely impossible. This is the catastrophe of their entire philosophical expansionist system and its end. This raises questions that, even without answering them, undermine the very spirit of the West, call into question not only its role as a leading force in the development of civilization, but also its very right to exist. But the Serbs are dying out ... there are less than 10 thousand of them left. And what about the Russians? Yes on the thief's hat is on fire .. If the Russians did not have the opportunity to "lower" the West, to present such demands (note, justified from the point of view of the philosophical system of the Western elite), which destroy their entire system of philosophical values, then they would not be hated. And this opportunity still exists. Reinforced concrete foundations. Just imagine ... you live in an apartment in the center of Moscow. You have work, friends, connections, money and prospects. And then someone appears who says that you stole all this from him - your diplomas have been bought, property rights are fake, and you yourself are not who you pretend to be. In addition, you now owe him as much as you do not have and will not, in principle, moreover, it’s time for you to move out of the apartment and throw it back into the shack in the village of zho ... Inca, which even has nothing to heat. He has all the documents confirming his rights and the ability to defend them both by law and by force. This is the end..
    1. Machito
      Machito 2 September 2021 11: 45
      +1
      And how did the migration of the Germanic peoples suddenly begin to the Roman Empire? Maybe it was the Lusatians, the Polabian Slavs, the Wends and other Slavic peoples who kicked the Germans in the ass in the western direction?
      1. awdrgy
        awdrgy 2 September 2021 12: 43
        +4
        The Great Migration of Peoples is an extensive topic ... and quite controversial.
    2. El Barto
      El Barto 2 September 2021 14: 46
      +3
      Powerful theory.
      Here we have the remnants of the Vod people. There are also fewer of them.
      But they are a bone in the throat of the German-Slavic-Turkic expansionist system that destroyed the Great Finnish Civilization, which was the true and natural master of all Eurasia, until predatory finds from the West, South and East captured and assimilated it.

      Even modern humans have about 4% of Neanderthal genes. And this is a bone in the throat of the Cro-Magnon expansionist system. Who devoured (literally) truly ancient peoples
      1. awdrgy
        awdrgy 2 September 2021 15: 53
        +2
        And yes, they (for example, Vod or all Finns) can make claims, but only with historical evidence of their heritage and, of course, opportunities. In the absence of one or the other, or all together, this is meaningless and merciless))) Almost d'Alembert's theorem By the way, the right of nations to self-determination is a direct and powerful increase in opportunities for those who did not have them before (for example, Estonians) And who said that we are Russians is it not annoying from the word at all? What is there, there is not much. By the way, where are the Neanderthals? Where are their representatives capable of presenting something? And we are still Russians. Moreover, we have both historical evidence (which the enemies are trying to pervert) and opportunities. As for the Neolithic times, and even more so and deeper layers of history ..., as you understand, this, from your point of view, is a clear exaggeration, because there is no historical evidence of the existence of one or another of the currently existing nations on the territory of Europe in this time period is practically nonexistent. I do not presume to assert, but the nations in their modern understanding apparently did not exist yet. (This is of course controversial). More or less it can be argued about the presence / absence of cultures and their distribution areas. Why go there for an example. We still cannot figure out from and to where in the Lugiev union the Germans began and the Slavs ended))) By the way, this is a rather interesting, controversial and extensive topic, but not within the framework of this discussion.
        1. El Barto
          El Barto 3 September 2021 12: 21
          0
          And yes, they (for example, Vod or all Finns) can make claims, but only with historical evidence of their heritage and, of course, opportunities.


          So they presented


          Now their great Finns' appetites have already grown up to the Yenisei. So let them argue with our Slavic-Aryans
          1. awdrgy
            awdrgy 3 September 2021 12: 59
            0
            Of course, all this is from the category of anecdote about the Finnish-Chinese border ... They have no legal succession, because neither the state within these borders nor the ruler who had these territories as flax (or who was the heir of such a ruler) and whose legal successor would be any Finnish state now (even though formally through many "steps" of reformatting) - there was no. The rest are assumptions and exaggerations that do not stand up to criticism (at least within the framework of the moral and philosophical approaches of the present civilization). There are no power possibilities at the moment and in the near historical perspective either. Therefore, the joke is senseless and merciless)))
          2. Dzungar
            Dzungar 5 September 2021 14: 22
            0
            YES LET AT LEAST KILL EACH OTHER ...
  • El Barto
    El Barto 2 September 2021 12: 57
    +3
    It's fine. You will not indicate where, for example, Schletzer denies the Polabian Slavs and the Lusatian Serbs (which, the Lusatians not only were, but are still in Germany).

    I also read with interest how the Germans conquered the Lithuanians. Probably after the Germans defeated the Lithuanians in the Battle of Grunwald, they began to strenuously conquer them?
  • Keyser soze
    Keyser soze 2 September 2021 08: 14
    +10
    Samsonov does not exist. This is a pseudonym. I suspect that the VO crew is going to team building, smokes with an ancient Nigerian potion and writes the most delusional sentences. And then they secretly laugh at us ... bully laughing
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 2 September 2021 08: 16
      -4
      Quote: Keyser Soze
      And then they secretly laugh at us


      over you, so right ...
    2. Ashes of Claes
      Ashes of Claes 2 September 2021 08: 56
      0
      Quote: Keyser Soze
      Samsonov does not exist. This is a pseudonym. I suspect that the VO crew is going to team building, smokes with an ancient Nigerian potion and writes the most delusional sentences. And then they secretly laugh at us ...

      Well, the main thing is that they, in ecstasy from their own writings with the whole crowd, do not change their gender, like the Wachowski brothers ... lol
    3. Per se.
      Per se. 2 September 2021 08: 58
      0
      Quote: Keyser Soze
      Samsonov does not exist. This is a pseudonym.
      Eugene, do you suspect Kinta and Sose on the grounds?
      1. Keyser soze
        Keyser soze 2 September 2021 09: 21
        0
        Eugene, do you suspect Kinta and Sose on the grounds?


        Not in the eyebrow, but in the eye :)))
        Every joke has its share of ... jokes :)
    4. Konstantin Shevchenko
      Konstantin Shevchenko 2 September 2021 23: 42
      -3
      You might think you know not nonsense. Where did you get the confidence that your institutions did not lead you astray? I suspect that you have, as elsewhere, a "ministry of truth" that decides what is true and what is not.
  • Ashes of Claes
    Ashes of Claes 2 September 2021 08: 25
    +6
    One of the striking examples is Mikhail Zadornov, who began to raise questions about the origin of the Slavs-Rus, the antiquity of the Russian language, which existed long before the appearance of English, German or French. Due to his great popularity, Zadornov did a great job, awakening historical, genetic memory in Russians.


    laughing
    Seriously? This charlatan had a very comfortable position - his status as a "humorist" gave him the right to turn any of his amateurish delusions into a cute joke. Very comfortably. I don’t understand how, sorry, “research” can be taken seriously?
    1. Sergey1964
      Sergey1964 2 September 2021 08: 45
      +1
      Quote: Ashes of Klaas
      Seriously?

      It seems to me that the article under discussion is a banal banter. Cm.
      Quote: Keyser Soze
      I suspect that the VO crew is going to team building, smokes with an ancient Nigerian potion and writes the most delusional sentences. And then they secretly laugh at us ...

      The Keyser Soze version seems to me quite sensible and logical.

      As an alternative explanation, I would suggest an increase in the click-through rate (and, accordingly, attractiveness for advertisers) of the topwar.ru resource. In principle, it is witty and professional enough. The only thing is better to insert additional keywords "USA", "NATO" and "Ukraine" into the article. Like that
      "In the West (first of all, in the countries of the aggressive NATO bloc inspired by the USA and Ukraine that joined them) we are confident ...", and further in the text.
      1. Ashes of Claes
        Ashes of Claes 2 September 2021 09: 09
        +3
        Quote: Sergey1964
        It seems to me that the article under discussion is a banal banter.

        yeah, it is perceived that way) But look how the aggressive anti-Normanists dispersed in the branch! Especially this one, which flaunts one "s" in the word "Russian"
        Quote: Sergey1964
        suggested an increase in click-through rate

        clickbait is sacred, there is nothing to assume)
        1. Sergey1964
          Sergey1964 2 September 2021 09: 23
          +1
          Quote: Ashes of Klaas
          But look how the aggressive anti-Normanists have parted ways in the branch!

          This means that the article has achieved its goal of increasing clickbait. ))
          Although I would still add the United States, NATO, Ukraine, and, at the same time (so as not to get up twice), Ilona Mask and Dmitry Rogozin. And aircraft carriers will not interfere either - according to my observations, the reading public bites well on aircraft carriers. You can also insert Yeltsin and Gorbachev - as they say, you can't spoil porridge with butter.
          1. Ashes of Claes
            Ashes of Claes 2 September 2021 11: 10
            +5
            Quote: Sergey1964
            And aircraft carriers won't be in the way either

            pfff ... The first aircraft carriers were Novgorod ears! There was a falconer with a falcon in the carriage!
            1. Sergey1964
              Sergey1964 2 September 2021 11: 44
              +2
              Quote: Ashes of Klaas
              The first aircraft carriers were Novgorod ears! There was a falconer with a falcon in the carriage!

              Exactly! And I kept wondering who the Americans had ripped off the F-16 Fighting Falcon ... Congratulations, another blank spot in historical science has been erased.
              By the way, do not forget that I planted the idea of ​​aircraft carriers. So 50% of the author's contribution in the future article is mine. Well, okay, not 50%, but 30%. Well, okay, I agree 25% - but this is my last word.
              1. Sergey1964
                Sergey1964 2 September 2021 11: 48
                +1
                I changed my mind. Mine - 30%, period. For the fact that I not only threw up the idea of ​​aircraft carriers, but also drew a parallel between the ancient Russian falcon and the modern (distorted from the ancient Novgorodians) American Falcon.
                Well, okay, purely out of respect, mine is 27.5%. Yourself at a loss - but what you can't do for the sake of restoring the historical truth.
                1. Ashes of Claes
                  Ashes of Claes 2 September 2021 12: 29
                  +3
                  Well, what bargaining between colleagues? We do a common cause! And I will give the fee as an entrance fee to ЗOroastrianАRiysk ЕDinovedic Бfraternity Иmenu Сamsonov. I'm afraid to write the abbreviation - I can get banned. Here, I'm going to sign up. Take your turn?
                  1. Konnick
                    Konnick 2 September 2021 13: 39
                    -1
                    Here, I'm going to sign up. It's your turn to take

                    Or maybe it's better to enroll in the flat-eart sect?
                    1. Sergey1964
                      Sergey1964 2 September 2021 14: 38
                      0
                      Quote: Konnick
                      Or maybe it's better to enroll in the flat-eart sect?

                      Is it possible in two queues at once? Then, please, me immediately into flat-earthers and into adherents of these, as their
                      Quote: Ashes of Klaas
                      I am afraid to write an abbreviation

                      I am also afraid to write, especially considering that I have officially listed my future fee on a soft sign to this abbreviation. But I think no explanations are needed. In general, I am in two queues - in the flat-eart sect and in a not quite censorship abbreviation.
                      The rest of the participants - they shouldn't be interested in me. The abbreviation is issued one at a time in one hand, and Shiva the Many-armed has already taken after me.
                    2. Ashes of Claes
                      Ashes of Claes 2 September 2021 14: 45
                      +3
                      Quote: Konnick
                      Or maybe it's better to enroll in the flat-eart sect?

                      and you think that the sufferers of the svarog-kolovrat people imagine the world order differently than
                  2. Sergey1964
                    Sergey1964 2 September 2021 13: 51
                    0
                    Quote: Ashes of Klaas
                    And I will give the fee as an entrance fee to the Zoroastrian-Aryan Unified Brotherhood named after Samsonov

                    In that case, I give my share of the fee to the soft mark. Well, or for yat - there you decide for yourself according to the situation.
  • Per se.
    Per se. 2 September 2021 08: 33
    +7
    I have nothing against Alexander Samsonov, but why the plot, what is the plot of the problem? Is history being misinterpreted? She is always misinterpreted, both consciously and out of ignorance. And they misinterpret religion, each previous one was declared paganism, heresy, and if Christ returned, I would be very surprised what the Inquisition and the organizers of the Crusades did from his teachings ...
    Let's immediately figure out who is from Adam and Eve, and who, according to Darwin, is from monkeys. In the end, we are EARTHLANDS, this is the main thing, and not whose family is older. Also, as they say, if we are so smart, why are we so unhappy, sick and poor? Yes, the Russian language is one of the best, it requires a developed speech apparatus, which gives tremendous opportunities for communication, conveying all shades of feelings and thoughts. These are not "cave" languages, where many sounds are at the level of inarticulate animal sounds, or stupid British grammar, where words, like hieroglyphs, must be visually memorized, desperate to find common sense in the logic of spelling, vocabulary and phraseology.

    Well, so let's prove in practice that our language makes us better and more perfect, why did we lose to the Anglo-Saxon "reptilians", why do these cave "troglodytes" rule the world?
    1. Glory1974
      Glory1974 2 September 2021 10: 00
      -1
      In the end, we are EARTHLANDS, this is the main thing, and not whose family is older.

      A medal cannot have one side and two scientific schools with the same point of view.
      There is a version that people are creatures created with the help of genetic engineering by aliens Anunnaki to work in mines.
      Therefore, it is possible to argue with your statement.
      1. Per se.
        Per se. 2 September 2021 10: 28
        +1
        Quote: glory1974
        Therefore, it is possible to argue with your statement.
        You are always welcome, especially if you tell me who the creator of the Anunnaki is, even better, who created the universal God himself and why.
        1. Sergey1964
          Sergey1964 2 September 2021 15: 48
          +2
          Quote: Per se.
          who is the creator of the Anunnaki

          The annukaki themselves, of course. The world line crossed, and that's it - the annuaks gave birth to the annuaks. A closed timelike curve - this happens all the time. I myself recently read by Paul Anderson.
          By the way, who are the annuaks? However, no need to answer, now I'll google it myself.

          PS
          Googled on Wikipedia. I did not understand everything, but I understood the main thing - they "had to eat grass, drink water and do hard work." In general, good guys, our people. Although they overdid the grass, in my opinion.
          1. Per se.
            Per se. 3 September 2021 07: 53
            0
            Quote: Sergey1964
            I did not understand everything, but I understood the main thing - they "had to eat grass, drink water and do hard work."
            Sergei, in general, "annuaks" were first mentioned by the ancient Sumerians, as gods who came to Earth. It is believed that they could even come from Mars.
            But, you yourself are not confused by the fact that people were created "to work in mines"? Why create modified "monkeys" for this with a pickaxe and a shovel, having space technologies, super-powerful robotic technology, the ability to clone and modify themselves, if natural self-reproduction was not enough for them?
            Let's assume that we just expressed our personal opinion here, thanks for your attention.
      2. kalibr
        kalibr 2 September 2021 10: 53
        -1
        Quote: glory1974
        There is a version

        Whose?
        1. Glory1974
          Glory1974 2 September 2021 13: 50
          +2
          Zecharia Sitchin.
      3. Sergey1964
        Sergey1964 2 September 2021 11: 06
        +5
        Quote: glory1974
        The medal cannot have one side

        If the medal is made in the form of a Mobius strip, then it's easy.
    2. Bar1
      Bar1 2 September 2021 16: 17
      -1
      Quote: Per se.
      or stupid British grammar, where words, like hieroglyphs, must be visually memorized, desperate to find common sense in the logic of spelling, vocabulary and phraseology.


      besides, there are no cases and genders in English, and this "international" language is imposed on us for communication.
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 2 September 2021 08: 34
    +6
    I could not resist, I read the text of the article ... wassat laughing
    Tin ...
    Do you know what reminded me?
    Here are some quotes:
    Fr. Gerasim told me that it was as if you had composed an essay in which you deigned to present not very essential ideas about the people and their primordial state and antediluvian existence. You deigned to compose that man descended from the monkey tribes of monkeys, orangutas, etc. Forgive me old man, but I do not agree with you on this important point and I can put you a comma. For if a man, the ruler of the world, the smartest of breathing creatures, descended from a stupid and ignorant monkey, then he would have a tail and a wild voice. If we were descended from monkeys, then we would now be taken to the cities of the Gypsies for a show and we would pay money for showing each other, dancing on the orders of the Gypsy or sitting behind bars in the menagerie.

    You write that people and tribes live and live on the moon, that is, on the month. This can never be, because if people lived on the moon, they would obscure its magical and magical light for us with their houses and fat pastures. People cannot live without rain, and it rains down to earth, not up to the moon. People living on the moon would fall down to earth, but this does not happen. Sludge and slop would fall on our continent from the inhabited moon. Can people live on the moon if it exists only at night and disappears during the day?

    You have composed and published in your clever essay, as Fr. Gerasim, as if on the greatest light, the sun, there are black spots. This cannot be, because this can never be. How could you see spots on the sun, if you cannot look at the sun with simple human eyes, and why are spots on it, if you can get by without them? What wet body are these very spots made of if they do not burn? Do you think that fish also live in the sun? Excuse me poisonous dope, which so stupidly ate! I am awfully devoted to science!

    I made many discoveries with my own mind, such discoveries that no reformer had ever invented ... I discovered that our great fiery radiant mantle, the sun on Easter day early in the morning entertainingly and picturesquely plays with multi-colored flowers and produces a playful impression. Another discovery. Why is the day short in winter and long night, and vice versa in summer? The winter day is short because, like all other things visible and invisible from the cold, it shrinks and because the sun sets early, and the night expands from the lighting of lamps and lanterns, because it gets warm.

    In my opinion, colleagues, our Samsonov is one to one. laughing
    But Chekhov wrote his text almost a century and a half ago ... laughing
    1. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 2 September 2021 08: 39
      +1
      hi And by the way, yes .. "I recognize, I recognize, brother Kolya" laughing
    2. kalibr
      kalibr 2 September 2021 08: 54
      +1
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      I could not resist, I read the text of the article ...

      Me too. Now I sit, here, and something is sick ...
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 2 September 2021 09: 09
        +3
        And I laugh so hard. wassat
        This is a real hysteria. laughing
        They say that the blues is when a good person feels bad, and rap is when a bad person feels good. If so, then this article by Samsonov is when a stupid person feels bad. And this is good! good
        1. Daniil Konovalenko
          Daniil Konovalenko 2 September 2021 10: 50
          -2
          this article by Samsonov - when a stupid person feels bad.
          Often he "gets sick" not for good. laughing
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 2 September 2021 12: 23
            0
            Whether it will still be, autumn is just beginning ... laughing
            Most commentators on Samsonov's work are divided into two groups: those who believe that the author sometimes uses prohibited substances and those who believe that he sometimes neglects to take the prescribed medications on time. I refer myself to the second category, since I drew attention to a certain cyclical nature of exacerbations.
            Apparently, another round of the cycle has come ... Well, let's wait until the pills are brought up ...
            1. Daniil Konovalenko
              Daniil Konovalenko 2 September 2021 12: 49
              -1
              Well, let's wait for the pills to arrive.

              ..... the doctor rides, rides through the snowy plain,
              He is carrying a healing powder to people.
              The man and the cat will take the powder -
              And sadness will recede, and longing will pass.

              Where are you, where are you, where are you, white carriage? -
              Within the walls of the toilet, a man screams.
              But the walls do not hear, the pipes, like veins,
              And the drain tank, like a heart, is beating furiously. laughing
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 2 September 2021 13: 11
                -1
                There is another option:
                The world I live in
                Called a dream.
                Do you want me to take you with me,
                If you want, I will share it with you.
                I will give you love
                I will teach you to laugh.
                You will forget about sorrow and pain
                You will swim in the clouds.
                Look, colorful rain
                The wind sings with inspiration.
                You didn't notice that you were walking on a rainbow
                My world, how beautiful and bright it is.

                This is from the work of Orbakaite, if that ... laughing
                I think if you remove "love" from the text and add a little light-brown Aryans, Samsonov may well use this great creation as a hymn to his work ... laughing
                I am especially impressed by the "share with you". But this can only be given by a doctor's prescription ...
                1. Daniil Konovalenko
                  Daniil Konovalenko 2 September 2021 13: 47
                  -1
                  Samsonov may well use this great creation as a hymn to his work
                  good laughing
        2. Engineer
          Engineer 2 September 2021 11: 49
          +5
          It's too early to gag.
          In the comments, there are a lot of supporters of the "historians are hiding" idea. The soil for Samsonov the sower is still there.
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 2 September 2021 12: 42
            +1
            Quote: Engineer
            It's too early to gag.

            Do you propose to arrange a holivar with each of this "heap", lower it below the plinth and smear it with scientific arguments, leaving no chance for moral recovery? laughing
            I tried it, it doesn't help them. They fall silent for a while, switching to other branches, but then they return again. The food that you and other colleagues can offer them is clearly not for the horse, alas, because for them "this cannot be, because this can never be" is a completely scientific argument. Science is powerless here, unless psychiatry or pharmacology can help.
            In addition, there are not as many of them as it might seem. Three, maybe four, I did not count in detail today - five comments for each, and now the density of the information flow has already been created ...
            On today's topic, more than one article has been written, including on VO, including by me personally. Everyone read them, discussed them ... What else can we do? Write and publish another one, two, ten articles? I agree, although I personally have nothing to add to the topic, at least now. You write, let other colleagues write - personally, I will thank you very much and will actively participate in the discussion, if circumstances permit. smile
            In the meantime, I'll laugh. smile
            1. Engineer
              Engineer 2 September 2021 13: 05
              +1
              No, I myself am against dialogue with such people. It’s not like making a stake on our heads, but there it’s possible to hammer piles with these people and use them instead of the supports of the Crimean bridge. It will stand for a thousand years.
              Just a reminder that there are too many of them to ignore. And they are not only stubborn, but aggressive in ignorance. Nothing can be done, especially since they are nursed by no less than the head of the History department. There is no reason to laugh in my opinion.
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 2 September 2021 13: 49
                -1
                I agree with everything said, except
                Quote: Engineer
                Nothing can be done

                If there is no desire to fight - not for them, you cannot help them - for the doubters, hesitant, a little infected with pseudo-history, but not yet hopeless (there are also enough of them here), then you can always just giggle for your pleasure, combining business with pleasure. smile
                And so - yes, only articles. Provide a resource with high-quality content - so they scatter themselves.
                And there are not so many of them.
                I can’t resist, I’ll count. Of these active and verified ... I will not pick up a word in our stock:
                Bar1
                Gardamir
                Konnick
                Today, perhaps everything.
                There are a few more that are called "on suspicion", such as
                Krasnoyarsk
                Lech from Android
                Reader 47
                I do not dare to judge the degree of brain damage by them. Probably someone has a chance of recovery. And that's it - six people. It seems to me that this is not very much.
                1. Engineer
                  Engineer 2 September 2021 14: 01
                  +1
                  Before writing an article, the author sets a quality bar for himself.
                  Write a good (for the author himself) article two to four weeks of hard work in the evenings. Very good months.
                  Samsonov can do this every day. We lost, humble yourself)
                  1. Trilobite Master
                    Trilobite Master 2 September 2021 14: 59
                    0
                    Quote: Engineer
                    We lost, humble yourself)

                    Never! soldier smile
                    I still remember the times when there was simply a dominance of such comrades. Now they are a clear minority. Sometimes they are not visible at all. Now I mean aggressive ignoramuses, like the first three on the list. Many of them have ceased to appear at all - I have not seen them for several years. So, in general, I think the struggle is going with the advantage of a bright beginning over dense illiteracy, the front line is stabilized, it remains only to repulse sporadic attempts to break through, and for this the forces of light have enough resources. smile
                    I'm just worried that today we provided a clickbait for Samsonov, but oh well ... We will survive. Painfully ridiculous, he was hysterical today. laughing
                    One thing is this:
                    The enemies of the Russian world and the people need to hide the truth, otherwise the Russians, realizing their true place in world history, will become practically invincible

                    or this one:
                    Deliriums and fantasies begin, supported by many-wise thick volumes of encyclopedias and scientific research. And then Hollywood, Netflix, which will fix any nonsense as a genuine and unshakable truth.

                    Isn't it beautiful? laughing
                    And what about Zadornov as an authority on history? It's just a song!
                    As for me, so with such propagandists as Samsonov, counter-propaganda is not needed. Just point a finger at him, giggle and that's enough. Well, for a normal person, naturally. For most. Well, and for those who seem to be normal, it seems that there is no longer any help. But we don't set such a goal for ourselves, right? smile
                    1. Engineer
                      Engineer 2 September 2021 15: 02
                      +1
                      The myth always triumphs over science in the common mind. He caresses the ear and gratifies vanity. Therefore, the myth always triumphs at any given moment.
                      I'm just worried that today we provided a clickbait for Samsonov

                      And that too. Sagritsya - we get. )
                      1. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 2 September 2021 16: 07
                        0
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Therefore, the myth always triumphs at any given moment.

                        We lost, humble yourself)

                        Good afternoon Denis, you are somehow pessimistic today hi
                        Science wins, and confidently and with one goal and with a devastating score, otherwise you and I would still be listening to aedes around a campfire in the forest, but we now have access to almost any research and almost on a global scale.
                        And she even took care of the aforementioned "comrades" by preparing qualified medical personnel for them. hi
                      2. Engineer
                        Engineer 2 September 2021 16: 27
                        +2
                        Science wins in the pages of monographs and peer-reviewed journals.
                        In mass culture, people are fed with this
                        https://tass.ru/politika/11282997
                        Patrushev drew an analogy between the vilification of Ivan the Terrible and modern Western Russophobia

                        FSB-Schnick clearly explained the story.
                        People eat it
                        The myth triumphs again
                      3. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 2 September 2021 16: 37
                        +1
                        Quote: Engineer
                        The myth triumphs again

                        To some extent, this is even normal: in my memory, several such "myths" have already changed, starting with Gumilyov and Rezun-Suvorov, then they have safely sunk into oblivion, there will be new ones. But since for the most part there is nothing behind them except "shocking and scandalous", but they are short-term: they come and go, and only a part of the population consumes it and, in my opinion, not the biggest one.
                      4. Engineer
                        Engineer 2 September 2021 16: 46
                        +1
                        But only at any given moment of time some myth and a complex of myths prevail in our country. Including over science. I already wrote about this. Only one myth goes into oblivion, it is replaced by another. Or the one before last is remembered and updated. Science is powerless.
                      5. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 2 September 2021 17: 00
                        0
                        Colleagues hi
                        But I have a suspicion that the author is a hidden Normanist. Check out how many new obsessions each article like this brings up! This is not counting the confirmation of the disability of the old. Yes, Samsonov is just an orderly of the resource! laughing
                      6. Engineer
                        Engineer 2 September 2021 17: 05
                        0
                        Maybe just using proven technology?
                        Why did the schildbürgers decide to save themselves from their great mind by foolishness?

                        they finally decided to say goodbye to their wisdom and become inveterate fools.
                      7. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 2 September 2021 17: 12
                        0
                        Well, I’m not just playing a jester!
                    2. Mihaylov
                      Mihaylov 2 September 2021 17: 22
                      0
                      Quote: 3x3zsave
                      But I have a suspicion that the author is a hidden Normanist.

                      "Latent Normanist"!
                      That is, you want, Anton, to say that this is something like a rapid detection test?
                      Interesting thought: it's worth thinking about! hi
                    3. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 2 September 2021 17: 43
                      +1
                      No, Sergei, not latent, but the most hardened! A sort of "infrared target illumination". Folk historians flock to his articles like flies to blooming rafflesia!
                2. Mihaylov
                  Mihaylov 2 September 2021 17: 07
                  0
                  Quote: Engineer
                  Science is powerless.

                  In my opinion, the fundamental achievements of history as a science do not very quickly reach an ordinary person, and here, in principle, the situation is not very different from other sciences, such as in physics or chemistry, when sometimes it also takes decades before some fundamental research is carried out. to the applied industry and we are starting to use them and sincerely rejoice at it.
                  As for the triumph of "myths" in modern society, I probably agree that in the current short-term period there is such a tendency, for which there are quite logical explanations, ranging from a decline in the level of secondary and higher education and the lack of development of critical thinking at school to the spread of such a new phenomenon. for society as the world Internet, etc. etc. (in general, there are many such reasons, you cannot list them all).
                  However, the vector of development of history as a science and history in the minds of a common man in the street still has only one direction - development: historical science in the 18th century, in the 19th century, in the 20th century and already in the 21st century - as they say, there are two big differences, or in this case four.
                  Likewise, if we take the average person in the 18th century, 19th century, 20th century and the modern, then I think without options who will have the most complete understanding of the historical process. hi
                3. Sergey1964
                  Sergey1964 3 September 2021 05: 24
                  +1
                  Quote: Engineer
                  Only one myth goes into oblivion, it is replaced by another. Or the one before last is remembered and updated. Science is powerless.

                  Well, the Strugatskys noticed it too. "The fact is that the most interesting and elegant scientific results quite often have the property of being abstruse and dreary-incomprehensible to the uninitiated" (c).
              2. Mikhail Ya2
                Mikhail Ya2 3 September 2021 06: 14
                +1
                Have you forgotten the "great historian" Levashov, who loved to talk about the star temple, and how he stopped radiation in Fukushima laughing
      2. Sergey1964
        Sergey1964 2 September 2021 15: 40
        +1
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        I'm just worried that today we provided a clickbait for Samsonov

        It's worth it in my opinion. For the author - clickbait, for the participants - entertainment. ))
  • Konstantin Shevchenko
    Konstantin Shevchenko 3 September 2021 00: 29
    0
    Why when someone from those who like to explore history asks not stupid questions, the OI has no answer?
    There is no pseudo history, there are many questions and there is no dialogue. There are not lazy people who have researched, even if amateurs carefully analyze some moments in history, they naturally publish their works in open sources, and I have not seen a dialogue where an officially knowledgeable person would say what this amateur is wrong, citing a tough argument from the original source. And so I see only non-reasoned banter of some over others.
    And I personally wanted to know from you when exactly the red brick appeared? There is also a lot of speculation here.
    1. Sergey1964
      Sergey1964 3 September 2021 05: 21
      +1
      Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko
      and I have not seen a dialogue where an officially knowledgeable person would say what this lover is wrong about

      If professionals begin to reasonably respond to all amateurs, then they (professionals) will simply not have time for professional activities.
      1. Konstantin Shevchenko
        Konstantin Shevchenko 3 September 2021 08: 43
        +1
        And what prevents professionals from announcing their activities to the masses, do not you need to focus on individual researchers? What are historians doing so much? If only they shared. Here we need to work, moreover, seriously with the primary sources and see historical objects with our own eyes, and not copy the phantasmogoric lyrics from each other. I am more grateful to amateurs, they will show primary sources from the same libraries where, in theory, professionals, subjects of historical heritage should sit, and then people should draw conclusions for themselves. I asked a simple question about brick, and I know 100% no professional historian will give an answer, you see they need to work, they distract))
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 3 September 2021 10: 21
          -1
          Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko
          they will show the primary sources from the same libraries where, in theory, professionals should sit,

          Really? And where are these primary sources for this article? At least one ...
        2. Konstantin Shevchenko
          Konstantin Shevchenko 3 September 2021 12: 18
          +1
          In this one, too, no, I agree. As with other articles on VO they write fictional storytelling. In fact, there is no work on VO.
        3. kalibr
          kalibr 3 September 2021 19: 16
          -1
          Konstantin! But there are links to sources in dissertations on the Web. And, yes, they cost money - 400-500 rubles. but the trick is that the thesis abstract is free. You can read it and decide whether this work is interesting to you or not. I read a couple of dissertation writers like that - and I got my footing very seriously!
    2. kalibr
      kalibr 3 September 2021 10: 22
      -1
      Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko
      And what prevents professionals from informing the masses of their activities

      Many of them simply do not want to throw pearls ... Well, with you, for example, what should the historian talk about? Internet is full of Ph.D. and doctoral dissertations on any topic - read it and you will be happy.
    3. Konstantin Shevchenko
      Konstantin Shevchenko 3 September 2021 12: 31
      +1
      I would like a lively publicistic speech with a trained journalist. It is strange that such brave professionals are not found to break away from routine work for an hour. And with me you really do not need, I do not ask, a conversation. But I can ask questions, as I am interested, it will not greatly tear the historian into beads.
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. Konstantin Shevchenko
      Konstantin Shevchenko 3 September 2021 14: 14
      +1
      The illiterate "interested" also comes for an answer, because the questions are simple, not complicated, but not. To whom is history taught, for whom? If not interested. And all why. A simple example, I read in NH that the helmet of Alexander Nevsky and not his shishak at all, he has three crowns and suras from the Koran on it, and this is true. You run illiterate with a rupture of the template to the officials, you ask how so? And you get a kick in the ass, they say we have no time to work and we have a family, the salary is small.
    6. kalibr
      kalibr 3 September 2021 15: 26
      -1
      Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko
      I read in NH that the helmet of Alexander Nevsky and everything is not his shishak, he has three crowns and suras from the Koran on it, and this is true.

      I had an article here on VO about the so-called helmet of Alexander Nevsky. Type a question in a search engine and read it, this is not NH ... There was a whole series of articles - THE MOST EXPENSIVE HELMETS - there is a lot of everything. You need to be able to use the Internet, that's all.
    7. Konstantin Shevchenko
      Konstantin Shevchenko 3 September 2021 16: 44
      0
      This is not what I meant when I wrote about the shishak. I found out about this more than 20 years ago in NH, then there really was no Internet. And nevertheless, Alexander's shishak was considered for a long time, it is on the emblem of the Republic of Ingushetia, on the monument to Minin and Pozharsky. Thank you, I will definitely read your material. I read your articles with interest.
    8. kalibr
      kalibr 3 September 2021 19: 13
      -1
      Thank you for your interest. However, even 20 years ago it was known that this Turkish helmet had nothing to do with Alexander Nevsky and could not have. Such helmets are plentiful in the Wallace Collection, Vienna's arsenal, the Army Museum in Paris, and the Metrolithin Museum in New York. Those people who speculate on this simply do not have elementary decency.
  • Sergey1964
    Sergey1964 3 September 2021 11: 10
    0
    Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko
    And what prevents professionals from informing the masses of their activities

    Professionals are hindered by two things to "notify the masses".
    1. They work.
    2. In their free time from work, they, like all normal people, are engaged in families, household, leisure, personal life ...
  • Konstantin Shevchenko
    Konstantin Shevchenko 3 September 2021 12: 31
    0
    I felt sorry for them.
  • Sergey1964
    Sergey1964 3 September 2021 12: 48
    0
    Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko
    I felt sorry for them

    In vain. Professionals do their favorite thing - otherwise they would not become professionals. It's great - when you do what you love, and you also get paid for it.
    Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko
    But I can ask questions, because I'm interested, this will not greatly tear the historian into beads.

    And you did not think that you are not the only inquisitive person, and that there are much more people who want to ask questions than historians? If you are really interested - Google is at your service. Now both dissertations and scientific articles are posted in pdf. Find, read ... If access to the full text is closed - find the author's email address (as a rule, it is in the title of the article), write to him and ask politely to send the full-text version. As a rule, the authors of articles do not refuse such a request.
  • Konstantin Shevchenko
    Konstantin Shevchenko 3 September 2021 13: 38
    0
    I disagree, the famous historian Pyzhikov, somehow found time for the audience. And of course he advertised his books. Despite the fact that he naturally provided meager information, it was interesting to listen to. After all, not all people need to know deep information, but a sufficient chronology of events, since all historians cannot re-read all their works, as the Triblot Master and you are suggesting to me. And the fact that there are questions to the accepted official history, you understand that they do not arise from scratch with a finger in the sky and people want to know how correct and high-quality information is.
  • Sergey1964
    Sergey1964 3 September 2021 15: 04
    0
    Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko
    the famous historian Pyzhikov somehow found time for the audience.

    I read about him on Wikipedia. Judging by his biography, he was engaged not so much in science as in social and political activities. So it makes sense that he found time for the audience.
    Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko
    After all, not all people need to know deep information, but a sufficient chronology of events

    The chronology of any more or less significant historical events can be found in Wikipedia, with links to primary sources.
    Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko
    And the fact that there are questions to the accepted official history

    Who accepted it, and who called this story "official"? There is no official science at all, this also applies to historical science.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 3 September 2021 15: 30
    -1
    Quote: Sergey1964
    There is no official science at all, this also applies to historical science.

    How well you said. Bravo!
  • Konstantin Shevchenko
    Konstantin Shevchenko 3 September 2021 17: 04
    +1
    Interesting you. For example, there is the tomb of Pope Julius II who died in the early 16th century. Michelangelo's work can be viewed on the Internet. What we see: Moses, Rachel, Leah. How does it all fit inside in scientific history? Where can I get a synopsis, a professor's work, or an explanation of such an absurdity on Wikipedia? This is not the only strange tomb, in earlier RP you will see the goddess of Venus and Fortune and so on.
    Officials and alternatives are not a formal designation, by analogy red and white.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 3 September 2021 19: 17
    -1
    Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko
    What we see: Moses, Rachel, Leah. How does it all fit inside in scientific history? Where can I get a synopsis, a professor's work, or an explanation of such an absurdity on Wikipedia?

    And what is absurd?
  • Konstantin Shevchenko
    Konstantin Shevchenko 3 September 2021 22: 11
    +1
    The first is thrown that it is the Jewish faith. Moses before Christianity before the birth of Christ. Roughly approach the concept of BC. and after AD separates the era of paganism from the era of Christianity (relative to the history of Europeans). We can say that paganism is depicted. There is no Christ himself, he will appear but already under Pius VIII. Sculptures of goddesses are already crude paganism.
    Stamps that are taught to non-professionals)). Catholic Church, a Christian church founded in the 1st century
  • Konstantin Shevchenko
    Konstantin Shevchenko 3 September 2021 23: 11
    +1
    While editing time has expired).
    The Catholic Church is based on the teachings of Christ. Belief in the Trinity of God. For the denial of the trinity of God, heretical thoughts and paganism - the death penalty.
    Conclusion from stamps. Michelangelo at the stake. Goddesses of war, abundance contradict the teachings of Christ, do not fit into the trinity. For 1500 years they have not taught their subjects to honor Christ?
    I also don’t believe that three Germans rewrote the whole history. But it's easier to follow the chronology. Yes, it's just a suspicion. I can’t argue, I’m not a professional and not an amateur. Presenting someone else's work is not comfortable for me.
    Catholic calendar, planets with pagan names, Roman judicial system, etc. everything is the same and common. Where did you study during the Renaissance? In Jesuit schools around the world. And the children of wealthy parents? In the same place in the church, only for the rich. Yes, later there were private ones, but where did the foundation of knowledge come from? From Catholic schools.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 4 September 2021 06: 30
    +1
    Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko
    But it is easier to follow the chronology.

    It seems so to you. In fact, then you will have to rewrite ALL CHRONICLES AND ALL CHRONICLES IN ALL COUNTRIES OF EUROPE!
  • kalibr
    kalibr 4 September 2021 06: 33
    +1
    You have a terrible fuzziness in your presentation, Konstantin. And whoever expresses unclearly, thinks unclearly. More precisely, you need to formulate your "misunderstandings". People always follow the path of least resistance. So why rename if the name is well established?
  • Konstantin Shevchenko
    Konstantin Shevchenko 5 September 2021 02: 01
    0
    In the end, I got tired of typing again every time, I wrote from the phone, with weak traffic .., I am forgiven for being illiterate.
    Popes have tombs with pagan symbols. For those "interested" with the level of knowledge of a regular school, not a history department, this is absurd. And as for you there, I don't know, I never heard, except for criticism.
    No need to say that it is difficult to edit history, no one will believe in it. It's just amazing to believe so. In those days everything was forged; their clan became old, the chronicles were composed and ruled. And what could not be fixed was constantly burned.
    The St. Petersburg Academy was run by foreigners, that's a fact. And the children of the rich studied abroad, also a fact. Famous RI personalities also studied abroad, and some of them were from there. Therefore, it is quite possible to edit history, manipulate dates under the Christian church, not only in Russia, but also in China, Turkey and other states. Even now, modern information is being turned upside down. Two generations is enough for people to forget the past and the language of their ancestors, especially if the population is mostly not literate. In Europe, there was no need to rewrite, there were correct Christian schools. Jesuit schools were spread all over the world. Whoever had the printing technology wrote the history and made up the chronology. What are the names of people who, before the advent of printing technologies, compiled the historical chronology of the world and everyone followed it?
    I hope I wrote it clearly.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 3 September 2021 15: 29
    +1
    Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko
    famous historian Pyzhikov

    Known to whom? I know Mavrodin, I know Kirpichnikov, I know Nicolas, I know Richardson ... Pyzhikov ... no, I don’t know.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 3 September 2021 10: 23
    +1
    Quote: Sergey1964
    If professionals begin to reasonably respond to all amateurs, then they (professionals) will simply not have time for professional activities.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++
  • Bar1
    Bar1 3 September 2021 10: 59
    -2
    Quote: Sergey1964
    If professionals begin to reasonably respond to all amateurs, then they (professionals) will simply not have time for professional activities.


    funny. Not only that, the historians every second breed lies in the format of the existing paradigm, they also do not want to be distracted by conversations with the people - this arrogance is already noticeable on this forum: there is not a single intelligible answer or a detailed commentary debunking the author of the article, only defamation.
    Here's a question on the case.
    OI claims that the Varangians from that PVL were Scandinavians and spoke Scandinavian. WHAT, what fact made these scientists think so? Please answer.
    1. Sergey1964
      Sergey1964 3 September 2021 11: 06
      0
      Quote: Bar1
      Please answer.

      If this question is for me, then I am a professional microbiologist, not a professional historian.
      Quote: Bar1
      Not only that, the ophistories are constantly breeding lies

      If you mean professional historians by "official historians", then after such a passage it is useless to turn to them, and even senseless. You announced them to the liars in advance - so what's the point of answering them, and for you - reading their answers?
    2. El Barto
      El Barto 3 September 2021 13: 02
      -1
      OI claims that the Varangians from that PVL were Scandinavians and spoke Scandinavian. WHAT, what fact made these scientists think so? Please answer.


      Scientific hypotheses are made based on cross-validation from multiple sources. Varangians-Scandinavians are known from Byzantine sources. Concerning specifically the Rus-Varangians, in the agreement between Rus and Byzantium, most of the names mentioned are Scandinavian. Another confirmation is that the Russian ambassadors who accidentally ended up in France, upon closer examination, turned out to be very similar to Swedish spies, for which they were expelled.

      As for the language spoken, here it is necessary to take into account the fact that the military corporations of that time did not have a pronounced ethnicity, but were of a very mixed composition. Those. the army was called Danish, Russian, Swedish and any other not by its composition, but by the personality of the leader.
      The use of modern research methods once again confirms what was known before:
      - genetic studies of the remains of the so-called. "Vikings" from Denmark and England showed that they were not exclusively Germans, a significant part of them were Celts (Irish), Picts, Slavs and even Turks.
      So there is reason to believe that they spoke any languages ​​of Europe - according to the circumstances
    3. Bar1
      Bar1 3 September 2021 13: 30
      -2
      Quote: El Barto
      Varangians-Scandinavians are known from Byzantine sources. Concerning specifically the Rus-Varangians, in the agreement between Rus and Byzantium, most of the names mentioned are Scandinavian.


      specifically, what are the "Byzantine sources"? I don’t believe your word from the lantern.
      There is, for example, such a source Anna Komnina "Alexiada", where she writes that in the 12th century Emperor Alexei invited SKIFOV to fight for Byzantine interests with the NORMANS. And this does not fit with the history of history.
    4. El Barto
      El Barto 3 September 2021 14: 30
      0
      That is, you are not arguing with the message of the Bertin Annals that the ambassadors of the King of the Rus are Swedes?
    5. Bar1
      Bar1 3 September 2021 14: 43
      -2
      Quote: El Barto
      That is, you are not arguing with the message of the Bertin Annals that the ambassadors of the King of the Rus are Swedes?


      specifically show the scan how I do it.
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 3 September 2021 09: 52
    +1
    Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko
    I have not seen a dialogue where an officially knowledgeable person would say what this lover is wrong about

    Everything is simple here. Although I am not a professional, I tried to answer the "tricky questions" of the Novokhronolozhites and realized that in order to give birth to a delusional hypothesis, no special investment is required either in time or in intelligence, but to refute it is required. Even me, an amateur, has no time to answer stupidly. Spending time on this is generally stupid for a professional - he earns his living by his labor, and not to say that very much.
    This issue should be dealt with by professional popularizers who make a living by this very thing, but their corps has historically not formed in our country. There is very little good popular science literature, and the authors also cried a lot. Although, I must say certain, I would even say there are significant shifts in this area, including in history.
    As for your question about brick, at the moment you probably know more about it than I do. I have neither the time nor the desire to do research in this area to satisfy your curiosity. If you were in my place, I am sure you would answer in the same way.
    However, I can give you some recommendations on how to competently study the issue that interests you.
    First, you need to decide on the subject of research. What exactly do you call the word "brick" and which bricks of their many varieties do you call red, for there are dark red, pink, red-brown, brown, etc. It is also necessary to understand how you see the difference between brick, for example, from plinth, adobe, etc. it should be borne in mind that until a certain time each workshop made a unique type of brick, depending on the available materials, technologies and personal inclinations of the master - any GOSTs, as you understand, were absent. Well, in the process of research, get ready to meet new questions, subtleties that have nothing to do with the question itself, but affect the answer.
    I think the result of such a study will be quite enough for an article on VO, especially since you are talking about some speculations on this topic, it may be interesting. Publish, we will read, discuss. Surely there will be specialists in bricks, they will correct you in some way, but one way or another, you will receive an answer to your question. It only takes a little work on your own.
    1. Sergey1964
      Sergey1964 3 September 2021 12: 53
      +2
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      tried to answer the "tricky questions" of the Novokhronolozhites and realized that in order to give birth to a delusional hypothesis, it does not take much time or intellect, but to refute it is required.

      There is one more problem, and, according to my observations, it is fatal. Authors and / or supporters of delusional hypotheses do not want their hypothesis to be refuted. They want their hypothesis to be confirmed. That is, they are initially interested not in the truth, but in the confirmation of the delusional hypothesis.
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 3 September 2021 14: 14
        +2
        Yes. And this is the approach of a publicist, not a scientist. They either sincerely believe in their innocence, if this is a "lower" link of this layer, adherents, or defend it as their personal piece of bread, earnings are their guru, actually the designers of these delusional hypotheses.
      2. Konstantin Shevchenko
        Konstantin Shevchenko 3 September 2021 20: 06
        -1
        How do you define delusional or not. Do you have knowledge of the level of God?
      3. Sergey1964
        Sergey1964 4 September 2021 06: 44
        0
        Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko
        How do you define delusional or not. Do you have knowledge of the level of God?

        In order to determine that an idea is delusional, knowledge of the "professional" level is usually enough. A simple example. Once they come to me from the same company, they found a patent on a certain biotechnology on the Internet, they want to implement it at home. Ask for advice. I read the patent describing the technology, I am stunned - it will not work both in biochemistry (well, the declared bacteria cannot do this kind of biochemistry), and in thermodynamics (and even bacteria cannot argue with thermodynamics).
        I think maybe I don't understand something? I express my doubts, I ask for a time-out. At home I surf the Internet to refresh my knowledge. No, I know everything correctly. I am looking for the names of the authors of the patent in order to find their scientific publications. It turns out that the authors of the patent, well-known swindlers like Koreiko from The Golden Calf, are wanted in Russia, fled from justice to Switzerland, and there they have already started some kind of case.
        So, to understand that the idea is crazy and won't work, it took me (a professional) a couple of minutes. The rest of the time was spent trying to make sure that I was right and that the authors of the idea were crooks.
      4. Konstantin Shevchenko
        Konstantin Shevchenko 5 September 2021 10: 16
        -1
        You would have compared history to mathematics. When people of "low social responsibility" write history, history is not science. There is no democracy even now, and even more so in the era of renaissance.
      5. Sergey1964
        Sergey1964 5 September 2021 13: 36
        +1
        Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko
        You would have compared history to mathematics. When people of "low social responsibility" write history, history is not science.

        1. History is not written, history is studied. I'm studying microbial communities, and historians - the migration of tribes, their socio-economic system, the causes and consequences of historical events ...
        2. You, not being a professional microbiologist, will fundamentally not be able to assess the quality of my research and the reliability of my results. Without being a professional historian, you will also not be able to assess the quality of the research carried out by the historian.
        3. What is the way out of this? Become a professional in the field of knowledge that interests you. Finish the relevant university and begin to practically work in this field. As a rule, it takes 10-20 years to turn a university graduate into a professional, depending on the field of knowledge.
        4. Not satisfied with option (3)? Read what the professionals write. The level of professionalism in the area of ​​interest can be roughly estimated by the scientific publications of this author. With regard to history, this means that if all publications of this author in scientific journals are devoted to the history of the CPSU (b), his statements regarding the history of Ancient Russia should be treated with caution. And if his publications are devoted to Ancient Russia, one should not expect revelations from him regarding the history of the CPSU (b).
        5. Alternative option. In general, do not get involved with a long and time-consuming search for reliable information. Find resources on the Web that sound the version that is pleasant to you personally. After that, you declare everything that contradicts this version, the intrigues of individuals of "low social responsibility". So you will not only save a lot of time and effort, but also gain peace of mind. ))
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 2 September 2021 10: 48
    0
    Now I sit, here, and something is sick ...
    "Again, you put black caviar for me, I can't see it" (c) laughing
  • Fat
    Fat 2 September 2021 09: 57
    0
    hi An amateur historian, archaeologist and collector of antiquities lived in the Russian Empire. Retired lieutenant L.G. Semenovsky regiment
    Prince Alexander Ivanovich Sulakadzev.
    Once the famous poet Gavrila Derzhavin enthusiastically told the director of the Imperial Public Library Alexei Olenin about the collection of Sulakadzev, he went to look at it. And then he told me with humor: he saw the stone on which Dmitry Donskoy was sitting (after the Battle of Kulikovo!). In the corner lay a heap of broken shards and bottles, which the owner passed off as the dishes of the Tatar khans. The wooden club used by shepherds to drive away dogs in the Caucasus was defined by Sulakadzev ... as the crutch of Ivan the Terrible.
    "Boyan's Song". More often than not, Prince Sulakadzev "aged" the original manuscripts - he supplied with postscripts, indicated the ancient owners. He was so impudent that he composed new texts himself. Among his forgeries, the most famous are the texts about Doryuric Russia. Back in 1807, he informed Gavrila Derzhavin: he has "Novgorod runes". Three years later, he gave the poet extracts from "Boyanova Song to Sloven" and "Perun and Veles broadcasting in Kiev temples ...".

    Bukvozor Sulakadzeva.
    The same "historian" also discovered the aeronaut, clerk Krutyanny. True, at first he was a baptized German Furzel, who flew under Anna Ioanovna ...
    laughing
    1. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 2 September 2021 10: 55
      -1
      So the author, not even an amateur or dilettante, a child of nature, does not know what he is doing, such ideas at school, in the fourth grade came to my mind ... of course I changed my mind to the sixth laughing
    2. Ashes of Claes
      Ashes of Claes 2 September 2021 11: 30
      0
      Quote: Thick
      An amateur historian, archaeologist and collector of antiquities lived in the Russian Empire. Retired lieutenant L.G. Semenovsky regiment

      ehm ... the lieutenant looks very much like .........
    3. Mikhail Ya2
      Mikhail Ya2 3 September 2021 06: 20
      +1
      Runes suspiciously reminiscent of Hebrew letters belay and here is the Jewish conspiracy angry
  • Glory1974
    Glory1974 2 September 2021 10: 04
    +1
    It is not known for certain what happened 100 years ago, let alone millennia.
    There is no knowledge of these events; there are interpretations and faith. Someone who believes in one interpretation, someone else. The controversy is endless.
  • Kozak Za Bugra
    Kozak Za Bugra 2 September 2021 10: 24
    +6
    Something I have already met with this topic on the site. Well, there were Normans, and so what? They came Russified, merged into Russia, and history went on on its own, so the largest country in the world that withstood the aggression of the West for centuries, is this not a reason for pride? Why come up with the theory of Tartary?
    Here the British and French do not make Wilhelm and Rolf into domestic English and French, and Richard the Lionheart spoke French like all English nobility until the 15th century, and the British have no shame for their history from this.
    Better than inventing the past, it is better to think about the future.
    By the way, what is this conspiracy logic? - a German came to Russia when Germany did not yet exist and gave his legacy to the Swedes who competed with the Germans wassat .
    On the contrary, if a German wrote that it was a Swede, he played against the interests of his homeland, if anything.
    Or is it a problem that the German collected manuscripts of Russian history? Well, then the Russian language is an invention of the same Germans, because Dahl, the compiler of the Russian dictionary is a Dane, and Vasmer, the compiler of the Russian etymological dictionary is Austrian, I don’t hear any complaints about the Russian language created by the Germans according to the same logic.

    P.S. in Catalonia read Fomenko and now it turns out Rome was in Spain ...
    1. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 2 September 2021 10: 58
      0
      Igor Vasilyevich, it is you sedition, you wrote about the British, Samsonov's adherents will not forgive you laughing
      1. Kozak Za Bugra
        Kozak Za Bugra 2 September 2021 11: 33
        +4
        This is not all, it turns out that Russian history had to be rewritten and European, because Harald hardrada, who died during the carve-up of England, dedicated the poems of the Russian princess when he was in Russia, and in the saga about Olaf Trygwasson, he pushes open about his being in Russia under Vladimir, even it is credited to him that he saved the soul of Vladimir by persuading him to accept Christianity.
        These are the skillful Germans who rewrote the history of all of Europe in all languages ​​at once lol
        1. Daniil Konovalenko
          Daniil Konovalenko 2 September 2021 11: 43
          +1
          laughing Fly minus, to our correspondence laughing What you write about, "non-adepts", are trying to explain to the "adepts", for how many years, but somehow things are still there laughing
          1. Kozak Za Bugra
            Kozak Za Bugra 2 September 2021 12: 01
            +1
            I don’t understand why, the impression is that the Swedes will come to us from this answer, it’s even strange, by the way Rurik, according to the Norman theory, is kind of like a Dane, not even a Swede, that is, the Danes will come to us.
        2. Konstantin Shevchenko
          Konstantin Shevchenko 3 September 2021 09: 11
          0
          Why laugh if you yourself are not in the subject? You are composing on the go that which no one else has. First, study in what schools they studied in the Middle Ages, especially the children of very rich parents of any "kingdom", answer all your bizarre statements.
  • BAI
    BAI 2 September 2021 10: 48
    -2
    All of Europe (and after it the world) accepted the fact that the Swedish (German) Vikings came to the "wild" Russian lands and created the Russian state.

    But Ukrainian historians believe that the Russian state was created by the dill. And, as you know, "the whole world is with Ukraine."
    1. Kozak Za Bugra
      Kozak Za Bugra 2 September 2021 11: 05
      -1
      (But Ukrainian historians believe that the Russian state was created by the dillies. And, as you know, "the whole world is with Ukraine.")

      Well this is a classic, the globe of Ukraine
      "Tsikava piece of our shop,
      They hope all kinds of divas.
      Why am I nourishing, cherga? It seems - the globe of Ukraine.
      After standing for two years - and in.

      On him, like and look like Ukraine,
      The land has been farmed,
      Seas and oceans, yak and maє buti - blue,
      And the smut is dumb nowhere in the Kremlin.

      I go to the house and I vivchayu
      Hto, yak і de on the globe life,
      Z Grushevsky rozibralisya, history vzhe maєm,
      Nareshty geography vzhe є.

      At the school we were balakali fools,
      Skoda, scho ten rocky with provchiv.
      Axis, please pan - a globe.
      Yaka on the capital?
      You see yourself, that is Lviv.

      Let's go away with a glance at pivnich -
      The province of Britain is there in us.
      If all the years of the year were pointing at Grinvich,
      Now he is transferred to Lviv hour.

      We changed to the core of the States,
      At New York at once Stanislav,
      Kolishni Kordilyuri - that is the western Carpathian,
      And I didn’t know anything without a globe.

      Wee chuli, yak spivay Michael Jackson?
      Then I'll tell you, for one:
      Buv in Kalushi Mikhailo, at the name of Oleksin,
      Axis vin і є toy Jackson, scurvy syn.

      And what about quiet Japanese electronics,
      Stick to them after our Kravchuk.
      Now ti Mitsubisi, Akai y Panasonic,
      One single company - Panasyuk.

      On a whole lot of Ukrainian land.
      Have you been able to go to China?
      Sidaimo by tram, їdemo by Striyskiy,
      Two Thousand Zupinok - and Shanghai.

      Lentally ebb si after having "heroes of glory" -
      Well, it's just not a planet, but a beauty,
      A de bouly Chernigiv, Zaporizhzhya and Poltava,
      One great place is Kovbas.

      Planet Ukraine is not indifferent -
      Dumpling, cherry, bacon, cow.
      Alone, square, borderless and succinct -
      Spin і nіkoli do not die-paradise-paradise ...
      Well, just heaven ... "
  • BAI
    BAI 2 September 2021 10: 55
    +1

    The Roman Empire in its heyday. Everything went from Rome.
  • 1970mk
    1970mk 2 September 2021 11: 12
    0
    Like Samsonov's anecdote you always read))) The mood is improving, such a funny nonsense is forever)))
  • Kozak Za Bugra
    Kozak Za Bugra 2 September 2021 11: 19
    +1
    The Roman Empire in its heyday. Everything went from Rome.

    Jerusalem "is Russia Rome".
    Oh, when I read Fomenko to know what it was, I was interrupted at every line with laughter.
  • Vsevolod
    Vsevolod 2 September 2021 11: 25
    0
    And the goblin, a fierce Normanist, beloved by the local emo-communists. Under the guise of a "patriot" - a Russophobic mug of a Western liberal
  • sidoroff
    sidoroff 2 September 2021 11: 27
    0
    why such an obsession with Europe and European counterfeiters? and who founded Beijing? or there Anantnag in India.
    Samsonov should only want to.
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 2 September 2021 22: 39
      0
      Quote: sidoroff
      why such an obsession with Europe and European counterfeiters? and who founded Beijing? or there Anantnag in India.
      Samsonov should only want to.


      Political Geography Christian Winsheim 1745
      So, Bogdykhan and Tatars live in the Old City, and the Chinese are not allowed to get there.



      and here is Bogdykhan himself
      this is from the signing of the Treaty of Nerchinsk in 1689.
      Isn't it true that his guards are similar to the Cossacks, too, but they do not look like the Chinese.



      and here is the Old City of Beijing, founded by the Tartars in 1752.

  • ee2100
    ee2100 2 September 2021 11: 28
    -1
    I will make a reservation right away that I am not a supporter of any of the theories, but I will add my 2 kopecks to the anti-Norman theory.
    1. It is necessary to decide who the "Varangians" are. The Varangian Sea is there, but there are no people. It looks like the Black Sea people, the Caspians, etc. According to the Chronicle, the authors clearly defined the national belonging, but here it is somehow not clear.
    2. "Rus, Slovenia and Chud resha ..." It is necessary to explain how, if only these 3 peoples have solved this issue. Have you gathered a veche or a congress of people's representatives? There is not a word about this in the annals.
    It is known from history, including domestic, that a "foreigner" was invited to rule. This is a normal thing, but this is only when, due to internal problems, they themselves could not choose a leader.
    In my opinion, the situation is similar here. Those. these 3 peoples constituted one state, country, etc.
    PS just a few days ago I discussed this topic with Anton.
    1. Kozak Za Bugra
      Kozak Za Bugra 2 September 2021 11: 43
      +3
      When discussing the Norman theory, they always lose sight of ethnogenesis, whether Rurik was a Norman or not, this does not mean that there was a state or not, the state (at that time) was already a Norman and they do not change anything here, even if they did not create a state, just simply gave a dynasty to this state.
      As for ethnicity, at that time there was no concept of a Swede or a Dane, that is, there were no national interests.
      1. ee2100
        ee2100 2 September 2021 12: 29
        -3
        And who is "Norman"? Rurik, as the Story writes, was a Varangian.
    2. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 2 September 2021 12: 02
      -2
      1. It is necessary to decide who the "Varangians" are. The Varangian Sea is there, but there are no people
      The ancient Germans, according to Tacitus, called the Baltic Sea the Sveb Sea. The Balts and the Poles, except for the Estonians, the Baltic, the Estonians called the Western, the Swedes, Danes, the Finns called the Eastern. In the tale of Bygone Years, the Baltic Sea is called the Varangian Sea. Historically, in Russian, the sea was called Varangian, and then Sveisky (Swedish). Under Peter I, the German name was strengthened - the Ostsee Sea (East). On Russian maps of the XNUMXth century, the form Baltic Sea was used.
      1. ee2100
        ee2100 2 September 2021 12: 27
        -5
        If in the Tale the sea is called Varangian, then it means in honor of someone and this is the main question. Who are the Vikings?
        1. Daniil Konovalenko
          Daniil Konovalenko 2 September 2021 13: 27
          -2
          Who are the Vikings
          the missing people, who later left for Sannikov's Land, they are the Onkilons. smile How do you answer according to Samsonov? .. In my opinion, different ethnic tribes, including the Scandinavians, can hide behind the designation "Varangians". Those who came from across the Baltic Sea, and because of it, different peoples came, sometimes mixed. of the peoples, except for the Slavs, the Baltic Sea did not name Varangian. Svevi, - the Swedes did not know that it was Varangian, the Varangians did not come to them, did not come to the rest. Why? Yes, because only the Slavs controlled the path from the "Varangians to the Greeks." And many wanted to control it. You read carefully PVL, after the death of Yaroslav the Wise, the value of the path decreases, and before that there was a fierce rivalry. Askold and Dir asked for leave to serve Rurik to the Byzantine emperor, but what about themselves? They sailed to Kiev, saw a cool place through which a large number of goods go, no one really takes duties, they filled this gap. They overthrew the local dynasty and began to rule. Rurik died. Oleg, sitting in Novgorod, realizes that not all the money gets. It goes down the Dnieper, and there ... in Kiev, "the company sits at my grandfather's stove" and shears the loot. It is known how it ended. I will not retell further, I already wrote about this in my comments. You see, it is possible to discuss this topic normally, but not against the background of Samsonov's article. hi
          1. Konstantin Shevchenko
            Konstantin Shevchenko 3 September 2021 09: 27
            -1
            And that if this was not at all, then there is nothing to discuss. Chronicles and stories may be fictional. The real story begins with printing technology, and before that, a gag tale. It is the seal that can confirm its authenticity, and it doesn't matter what the print is not always true. And the transfer of history from mouth to mouth is generally nonsense of official history, it is simply wildly mistaken to believe this. Samsonov's conclusions may contain more truth and have a right to exist like the OI version.
        2. El Barto
          El Barto 2 September 2021 13: 42
          +2
          Well, in the very same chronicle it is written who its compiler considered "Varangians" - Urmyane, Svis, Anglyane, Gotha ... Rus
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 2 September 2021 15: 17
            -3
            Firstly, not a chronicle, but a story. And it is better to learn history not from the Samsonovs and school textbooks, but on your own.
            "Those Varangians were called Rus, as others are called Swedes, and some Normans and Angles, and still other Gotlandians, - this is how these are. They said to Rus Chud, Slovenia, Krivichi and the whole: 'Our land is great and abundant, but there is no order in it Come to reign and rule over us. "(C) I have a quote from the Tale. Samsonov:
            "Rus, Slovenia and Chud are resolving ... and sending across the sea to the Varyag, to Russia; the situation of the Varangians with Russia, like and these drouzei are called Sven, Ourmane, Anglyane, inii Gotha ..."
            In reality, the difference and meaning changes. Let him indicate his source.
            Mine: https://librebook.me/povest_vremennyh_let/vol1/1
            If you master the primary sources yourself and no one will powder your brains.
            1. El Barto
              El Barto 2 September 2021 17: 34
              +1
              The text of the PVL is not a problem to find, here is according to the 1996 edition, St. Petersburg, Nauka
              "Sice is afraid of zvakh tyi varyazi rus, as all friends are called svie, druzii urmane, anglyane, druzii gtyo, tako and si. Rusha rus, chyud, words, and krivichi and all:" she nѣt. Yes, go to reign and volodti us "

              Likhachev's translation
              "Those Varangians were called Rus, as others are called Swedes, and some Normans and Angles, and still other Gotlandians, - that's how these are. They said Chud, Slovenia, Krivichi and the whole of Russia:" Our land is great and abundant, but there is no order in it ... Come to reign and own us "

              What does Samsonov have to do with it if you asked the question - who are the Vikings? Here is the answer with a list of the Vikings. This is clearly not the name of some Slavic people, but the collective name of the inhabitants of the Baltic
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 2 September 2021 19: 40
                -2
                So I mean it! In general, the Tale is like the first textbook on the history of Rus.
                Three questions. The first two are simple, but the last one is daunting.
                1.who wrote the annals
                2.for whom the chronicles were written
                3. when the chronicles were written.
  • Dedok
    Dedok 2 September 2021 11: 35
    +3
    Yes, the question is topical
    and it's not about big politics
    all our history is lost, lost in the literal sense: burned / burned / or simply destroyed by tyrants - the original manuscripts (do not forget that the people were literate without exception)
    The history that we know was created by people who lived very long ago - from the events they interpret, we call them historians. Therefore, we know their version of events and nothing more.
    attempts to delve into these events from a different point of view - was never welcomed by the state for known reasons, and therefore they are fragmentary / fragmented
  • Igor Valimukhametov
    Igor Valimukhametov 2 September 2021 12: 09
    0
    The history of Germany according to Tacitus is a complete falsification, created by the order of the Pope. Similar forgeries were massively riveted in a number of Catholic monasteries, and then miraculously discovered in the archives. The famous author of "Decameron" Boccacho was part of a group of trusted falsifiers. There are numerous studies of foreign historians on this The very word "herr" means glorious, "man" is a person, which means that a German is simply a glorious person, in essence, the same as a Slav. The Grand Duchy of Moscow ", in which he put forward the Swedish theory of the origin of the Varangians, Rus and the Russian state, which was immediately picked up in the West for the sake of its claims. But despite all the centuries-old efforts of the Normans, in 1614 their then leader, the historian A. Stender-Petersen at the International Congress in Stockholm was forced to admit in his speech that Normanism as a scientific construction died, because all its arguments were broken and refuted you. So from now on it is not a scientific category, but an ideological one. Bingo!
    1. Keyser soze
      Keyser soze 2 September 2021 12: 41
      +3
      The history of Germany according to Tacitus is a complete falsification, created by order of the Pope.


      Don't drive nonsense, eh?
      De origine moribus ac situ Germanorum was published by Tacitus in 98. The then Pope is the fifth Pope, after St. Peter - St. Evaristos. Martyr by the way. All before him are martyrs. They were slammed by the Roman authorities. We climbed the catacombs and were eaten by lions in the arenas.

      What the hell could the Pope have on Tacitus at this time?!?

      Ugh, Facebook's illiterate generation. Humanity has sunk to unknown online underhumans confident in their wisdom and knowledge. And for others, they are just pea jesters.
    2. El Barto
      El Barto 2 September 2021 13: 35
      +1
      Share-where does this secret knowledge come from? The Germans never called themselves "Germans" (and still do not call themselves). Just look at the self-names of the Germanic peoples - no "Germans".

      Given that the Romans called them that, then look for the roots of this name in Latin.
      Here for example:
      Germanus (lat.) - "uterine", "close", "native".
      Hermano (Spanish) - brother, blood relative

      In Germanic languages ​​the word "herra" simply meant "man", "man", "warrior".

      Neither there nor there any "glorious Slavs" are not nearby.
      1. Motorist
        Motorist 2 September 2021 21: 37
        +2
        Quote: El Barto
        In Germanic languages ​​the word "herra" simply meant "man", "man", "warrior".
        Neither there nor there any "glorious Slavs" are not nearby.

        Definitely, the words Herr and dryuchit (exert pressure, drücken) in Russian and German have a lot in common. You can also find, for example - Klamotten (rags, clothes). Vernier caliper - to the same place.lol

        Der große König des Schwedischen Königreichs sendet mich!
  • Lew
    Lew 2 September 2021 12: 14
    -2
    easy ... accessible, understandable ... may be debatable, but definitely not Western heresy
  • Kozak Za Bugra
    Kozak Za Bugra 2 September 2021 12: 23
    0
    I remembered, I recently spoke with a Paraguay and he told me in all seriousness that in South America there was a Viking kingdom that was destroyed by the Spaniards.
    There is such a theory, there are even "historical" works on this topic. Founder like Jacques de Mahieu
    1. Andrey Kuligin
      Andrey Kuligin 2 September 2021 13: 29
      -1
      I don’t know about the kingdom, but the fact that artifacts were found in the jungles of South America testifying to the presence of the Vikings in this territory hundreds of years before the Spaniards is a scientific fact.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 3 September 2021 10: 17
        0
        Quote: Andrey Kuligin
        that artifacts were found in the jungles of South America testifying to the presence of the Vikings in this territory hundreds of years before the Spaniards is a scientific fact.

        I would like to meet them ...
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 3 September 2021 10: 20
          0
          Quote: kalibr
          Quote: Andrey Kuligin
          that artifacts were found in the jungles of South America testifying to the presence of the Vikings in this territory hundreds of years before the Spaniards is a scientific fact.

          I would like to meet them.

          Yes, not the right word ...
          Drakkar and Knorr in the mountains of Peru is a millennium event ..
          wassat
    2. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 2 September 2021 13: 31
      -1
      Here the impetus was given by the Indian legend about Viracocha and his companions. White bearded gods who came from across the sea, but left, but promised to return. I happened to read that this legend about Viracocha was invented by the Spaniards themselves and allowed it to spread through the Indians.
  • Andrey Kuligin
    Andrey Kuligin 2 September 2021 12: 54
    +1
    "In the conditions when in Russia the Romanovs in the XNUMXth - early XNUMXth centuries. German, French and English languages, as well as European culture, prevailed among the Russian elite."
    And what language should be in this environment, if from the middle of the 18th to the beginning of the 20th century the German dynasty Gottorp-Holstein reigned in Russia, the kings were pure-blooded Germans? ... naturally, they promoted a history convenient for them ... It is another matter why neither in the Soviet Union nor in modern Russia did anyone want and does not want to recognize objective historical facts and call the phenomenon by its own name.
    1. ecolog
      ecolog 2 September 2021 19: 13
      -1
      why did the Germans Romanovs "promote" the Swede Rurik? Well, they would have appointed him a German, some sort of Prussian.
      And srach Normanists and anti-Normanists was before the revolution and after. And also under the slogans of leavened patriotism. Soviet historiography, by the way, was rather anti-Normanist.
  • g1v2
    g1v2 2 September 2021 13: 25
    0
    There are great Ukrainians, now there will be great Russians. Only the topic of digging by the great Russians of the Baltic Sea has not been disclosed, following the example of the ukrovs. fellow And then you can argue who dug their sea first - the ancient Ukrainians or the ancient Rus.
  • Operator
    Operator 2 September 2021 15: 40
    -5
    Objective facts:
    - on the territory of Russia, not a single burial has been found dating back to the 10th century, with bone remains of carriers of R1a of the Scandinavian subclade, which make up from 20 to 25% of the population of the Scandinavian countries;
    - found only 1 (one) female bone remains with strontium isotope (which accumulates during the growth of the organism up to 18 years), which differs from the isotopic composition of the bone remains of the Eastern Slavs;
    - in the Ladoga area, the Lyubshan fortress of the 7th century with West Slavic stonework was excavated (at this time, neither the Scandinavians, nor the Eastern Slavs, nor the Ugricheskens had stonework).

    According to the Fulda and Xanten annals, the Franks in 844 defeated the Rus tribe (part of the Wends) at the mouth of the Laba (at the location of today's Hamburg). The prince of the Rus Gostomysl moved to Ladoga region. The remaining Russes were headed by his father-in-law Rurik (married to Umil). In 845, the Franks defeated the Rus again, after which Rurik, at the invitation of Gostomysl, moved to Ladoga and founded the state of the Eastern Slavs Rus Land with the capital in Novgorod.

    Information about the participation of the Scandinavians in the creation of the East Slavic state is totally absent in all Scandinavian chronicles and sagas, where the Scandinavians wrote down each of their bunch and would certainly not have ignored such an epochal event as the capture of Gardariki. The first "information" about the Scandinavian origin of Rurik appears in the Swedish propaganda campaign of the early 17th century at the time of the claim of the Swedish kings to the royal throne during the Time of Troubles. With the same success can be considered credible information propaganda statement of Ivan the Terrible about the origin of Rurik from Octavian Augustus.
    1. Operator
      Operator 2 September 2021 16: 02
      -4
      Sucked from a Swedish finger, Normanism was used by Adolf Hitler in Mein Kampf to justify the inferiority of the Slavs:
      "The organization of Russian state education was not
      the result of the state and political abilities of the Slavs in
      Russia; on the contrary, it is a marvelous example of how the Germanic element
      shows in the lower race his ability to create a state. "

      Therefore, any publications in the Russian Federation, including textbooks and monographs that support the idea of ​​Normanism, must be prohibited from distribution according to the federal law of April 5, 2021, No. 85-FZ, on counteracting Russophobic educational activities, their authors have been dismissed from educational institutions and academic institutions and are deprived of scientific titles and degrees - for the dissemination of Nazi propaganda, obviously.
    2. Sergey1964
      Sergey1964 3 September 2021 08: 14
      +1
      Quote: Operator
      - on the territory of Russia not a single burial was found, dating back to the 10th century, with bone remains of carriers of the R1a of the Scandinavian subclade

      I don't know how about burials, but haplogroup R1a is widespread in Eurasia everywhere. It appeared 22-25 thousand years ago and spread. At that time, there were no Scandinavians, Slavs and other Normans in the project, but there were tribes of Paleolithic hunters who roamed the vastness of Eurasia. Do not believe me - run a Google search for r1a haplogroup. There are even pictures there.
      1. Operator
        Operator 3 September 2021 12: 53
        0
        In addition to haplogroups, there are also subclades of haplogroups, by which one can distinguish, for example, the Eastern Slavs from the Central and Western European, and the Slavs in general from the Black Sea Aryans. Plus the molecular clock (accumulation of mutations in DNA) allows you to identify ancestors and descendants.

        Modern DNA tests make it possible to distinguish blood brothers, and not just whole ethnic groups.
        1. Sergey1964
          Sergey1964 3 September 2021 15: 16
          -1
          Quote: Operator
          In addition to haplogroups, there are also subclades of haplogroups, by which one can distinguish, for example, the Eastern Slavs from the Central and Western European, and the Slavs in general from the Black Sea Aryans.

          Can't be distinguished. Check out works on population genetics. I mean - real work published in high impact peer-reviewed journals.
          Quote: Operator
          Modern DNA tests make it possible to distinguish blood brothers, and not just whole ethnic groups.

          Relatives - yes. Ethnicity - no.
          1. Operator
            Operator 3 September 2021 18: 17
            -4
            Popgenetics is a pseudoscience, obviously.
            1. Sergey1964
              Sergey1964 4 September 2021 06: 52
              0
              Quote: Operator
              Popgenetics is a pseudoscience, obviously.

              I know pop culture, but no pop genetics. And if you are talking about population genetics, then I advised you to read about it. Since you are clearly not a biologist, I advise you to start with university textbooks. Pay particular attention to panmix populations. And when you master the materiel at the level of a student of the biological specialty of the university, proceed to reading scientific articles on the genetics of human populations. After that, you will not repeat all sorts of journalistic nonsense about haplogroups as markers of the Slavs and Aryans.
              1. Operator
                Operator 4 September 2021 17: 19
                -1
                I recommend flushing all the popgenetic waste paper down the toilet and studying the basics of DNA genealogy - that there is a non-recombining part of the Y chromosome, molecular clocks, snips, tags, haplogroups, subclades, A, BT and other haplogroups, the distribution of haplogroups and subclades among ancient and modern ethnic groups, the gene pool of ethnic groups, biological ancestor-descendant relationships among ethnic groups, the direction of migration, etc.

                Well, and at your leisure, refresh the school history course - what is a clan, a tribe, a tribal system, how it differs from a state system, etc.
                1. Sergey1964
                  Sergey1964 5 September 2021 05: 06
                  -1
                  Quote: Operator
                  I recommend flushing all the popgenetic waste paper down the toilet and learning the basics of DNA genealogy

                  Dear, you are not a biologist, you can see it with the naked eye. And you only read the yellow press on the topic, maximum - Wikipedia or similar sources, as a result you have a mess in your head. As a doctor of biological sciences, I strongly recommend that you read this literature. First - textbooks on population genetics, and then - publications in peer-reviewed journals. ))
                  1. Operator
                    Operator 5 September 2021 15: 02
                    0
                    As a non-humanist, I recommend that you first find out the difference between DNA genetics and DNA genealogy, and then we will talk.
                    1. Sergey1964
                      Sergey1964 5 September 2021 15: 26
                      +1
                      Quote: Operator
                      As a non-humanist, I recommend first to learn the difference between DNA genetics and DNA genealogy

                      DNA genetics is something new in terminology. ))
                      1. Operator
                        Operator 5 September 2021 16: 07
                        0
                        Before the discovery of DNA, genetics was the name of selection, apparently.
                        Teach a materiel laughing
                      2. Sergey1964
                        Sergey1964 5 September 2021 16: 18
                        +1
                        Quote: Operator
                        Before the discovery of DNA, genetics was the name of selection, apparently.

                        The further, the more interesting. ))
                        Is it okay that the term "gene" itself as a discrete unit of heredity was introduced by Johannsen only in 1909 (by the way, long before the role of DNA in inheritance became clear)? And DNA was discovered in general before the appearance of genetics as a science (in 1869, almost simultaneously with the publication of Mendel's works - but Mendel's works did not arouse interest at that time and were safely forgotten until the beginning of the 20th century).
                        I inform in the order of educational program. Breeding, as it was called breeding, is what it is called breeding to this day.
                      3. Operator
                        Operator 5 September 2021 17: 14
                        -1
                        Learn molecular biology - your mother: DNA as a double helical chain of proteins and acids, encrypting the hereditary characteristics of a cellular biological object, was discovered in 1953 by Watson and Crick.
                        When the non-recombinant part of the Y chromosome was discovered, which encodes the origin (genealogy) of a person in the male line, find out for yourself.
                      4. Sergey1964
                        Sergey1964 5 September 2021 17: 36
                        +1
                        Quote: Operator
                        DNA as a double helical chain of proteins that encrypt the hereditary characteristics of a cellular biological object

                        It is a masterpiece! I almost choked on tea. Even our students do not think of this. You have not just broken through the bottom, but are actively digging deeper. Especially for you. A protein is a polypeptide. DNA and RNA are polynucleotides. The "double helical protein chain" applied to DNA is, I repeat, a masterpiece worthy of being recorded in the annals.
                        Quote: Operator
                        was discovered in 1953 by Watson and Crick.

                        Watson and Crick did not discover DNA. DNA was discovered a little earlier - in 1869. If only they would read Wikipedia (since more serious sources are not available to you, and you, as is already quite clear, skipped school biology).
                        ===
                        DNA as a chemical was isolated by Johann Friedrich Miescher in 1869 from cell debris contained in pus. He isolated a substance that includes nitrogen and phosphorus.
                        ===
                        In general, genetics and molecular biology are clearly not your strong point. Better not to write about this topic at all. ))

                        PS
                        Quote: Operator
                        hereditary characteristics of a cellular biological object

                        this is also a masterpiece. And in non-cellular "biological objects" (DNA viruses), DNA does not "encrypt" hereditary traits? And what about mitochondria and chloroplasts - is there DNA that does not "encrypt" hereditary traits?
                      5. Operator
                        Operator 5 September 2021 19: 10
                        0
                        And where did I write that DNA viruses do not exist? And what about proteins in DNA, you should tighten up the materiel laughing
                        You, most importantly, do not go into the bushes from the non-recombinant part of the Y chromosome.
                      6. Sergey1964
                        Sergey1964 6 September 2021 05: 12
                        +1
                        Quote: Operator
                        And what about proteins in DNA, you should tighten up the materiel

                        Whose materiel should I pull up - yours? I'm afraid it's useless. Your masterpiece phrase
                        Quote: Operator
                        DNA as a double helical chain of proteins and acids that encrypt hereditary traits

                        leaves no chance. I'll try, of course, purely out of altruism ... So, in an extremely simplified form.
                        1. DNA is not a double helical chain of proteins and acids. DNA is a double helical strand of nucleotides. Nucleotides (of which the DNA molecule consists, and of which there are four different types of DNA) have nothing to do with proteins (which are composed of amino acids).
                        2. DNA does not "encrypt" anything. DNA (more precisely, one of the two complementary DNA strands, although in some DNA viruses both strands can be coding) encodes information about the sequence of nucleotides in RNA molecules. The process of synthesizing an RNA molecule from a DNA molecule is called "transcription".
                        3. RNA molecules are matrix (encode information about the sequence of amino acids in protein molecules), transport (transfer amino acids to the ribosome during protein synthesis), ribosomal (combine amino acids into a future protein molecule), ribozymes (RNA molecules that catalyze reactions similar to enzymes ), noncoding RNAs (regulate gene expression). RNA also consists of nucleotides, three of which are the same that are included in the DNA molecule, and one is different.

                        So, we have sorted out this masterpiece of yours. I hope that you will no longer write that DNA is a "double helical chain of proteins and acids". Just remember that DNA is a polymer (usually the term "biopolymer" is used) made up of nucleotides. Protein is a polymer ("biopolymer") made up of amino acids. Nucleotides and amino acids are completely different classes of chemicals.

                        Let's go further. What do we have there?
                        Quote: Operator
                        about proteins in DNA

                        As we have already found out, there are no proteins in DNA from the word "absolutely". Probably, the terms "DNA" and "chromosome" are confused in your head. A chromosome in eukaryotes is a linear DNA molecule, complexly packed with the help of special proteins (histones). The chromosome in prokaryotes (the so-called "bacterial chromosome") is a circular DNA molecule, also partially packed with proteins (but not histones, and packing there is much simpler than in the eukaryotic chromosome).

                        Quote: Operator
                        You, most importantly, do not go into the bushes from the non-recombinant part of the Y chromosome.

                        How can you discuss such issues with a person who does not know what DNA is ?! Again. You skipped biology at school. On some (obviously "yellow") Internet resources you have picked up terminology that you simply do not understand and which you use in an arbitrary way, generating meaningless sets of words such as the aforementioned masterpiece. To school, in the 10th grade, to study materiel (the very basics). Learn the basics - let's move on to mutations. Then - to the distribution of alleles in populations. And there, you see, we will get to the question that interests you.
                      7. Operator
                        Operator 6 September 2021 11: 11
                        -2
                        Adios, amigo - finally do something useful like "find at least one difference between genealogy and genetics" bully
                      8. Sergey1964
                        Sergey1964 6 September 2021 11: 20
                        0
                        Quote: Operator
                        Adios, amigo

                        Adios. Do something useful, such as studying your 10th grade biology textbook. ))
  • Denis812
    Denis812 2 September 2021 16: 45
    +2
    Citing Vikings is, of course, powerful.
    You will refer to the "Penal Battalion" series if you write an article about the Second World War :)
    The task of the series is to earn money and not at all to show the historical truth.
    Or play Crusaders King and tell me that your roleplay is how the story developed :)

    And the fact that the Russians invited the Varangians to reign - so what? It is quite normal practice.
    Solves the problem with his own moronic elite or its absence.
    We invited respected dudes with combat experience and connections.
    Почему нет?
    And what is so derogatory for us Russians, I do not understand at all.
  • Aquanaut
    Aquanaut 2 September 2021 18: 30
    +1
    First of all, our history must be correctly reflected in school textbooks.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 2 September 2021 19: 14
      -1
      Quote: Aquanaut
      First of all, our history must be correctly reflected in school textbooks.

      And it is incorrectly reflected there, right? Give examples...
  • ecolog
    ecolog 2 September 2021 19: 11
    +3
    why did "the Swedes founded the state" at once? They themselves were not very much with the states at that time. They boarded the trade route, which "from the Varangians to the Greeks," and began to cover it, gradually bringing those they could reach under a more or less unified hand.
    Kiev was clearly before Rurik, and PVL does not dispute this. It is true that it was built most likely by the Khazars, but this is not certain.
    The Viking colony was England - this is a medical fact. Danish money, area of ​​Danish law, Scandinavians fighting for the crown of England. Migrants.
    That is, the ruling elite are descendants of the Vikings from France, and the population is local. And who is hovering there now?
    And no one colonized Russia. We did not pay an exit to conditional Sweden or Norway (like the British). Free Bonders did not settle to us, colonizing our lands. A ruling dynasty and a loose confederation just gradually took shape. Well, they were, let's say, svei, so what? We had cities and our own tribal aristocracy before them. The only question was who will collect it in a handful.
    As in present-day Bulgaria - the Bulgars came to them not from the good life and founded a dynasty and a military estate. By the way, the name was also given to the people in the end.
    1. Keyser soze
      Keyser soze 3 September 2021 07: 47
      +1
      As in present-day Bulgaria - the Bulgars came to them not from the good life and founded a dynasty and a military estate. By the way, the name was also given to the people in the end.


      And so it was. You are correct in your conclusions.
  • smaug78
    smaug78 2 September 2021 19: 49
    0
    Quote: Bar1
    besides, there are no cases and genders in English, and this "international" language is imposed on us for communication.

    And again you showed an ignoramus, capable only of being clever laughing
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 2 September 2021 22: 02
      -1
      Quote: smaug78
      And again you showed an ignoramus, capable only of being clever


      finally found an opponent or better denier. Give examples of cases and gender in English.
      1. smaug78
        smaug78 2 September 2021 22: 30
        +1
        Especially for the ignorant with puffy cheeks laughing
        Падежи: https://zen.yandex.ru/media/thebest_english/padeji-v-angliiskom-iazyke-5f4625c738e4be4839beda30
        Kind: https://puzzle-english.com/directory/gender-in-english. I am waiting for a new portion of sparkling cleverness from you, it is very funny laughing
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 2 September 2021 23: 31
          -1
          Quote: smaug78
          Especially for the ignorant with puffy cheeks
          Case


          you wouldn't laugh like a horse, how can you call these flimsy and far-fetched rules cases? After all, the words do not change, neither the suffixes are attached nor the endings.

          The teacher gave a book to the student.
          the teacher gave the book to the student.


          I love you
          I love you


          the only possessive still looks like something and then you have to think about it from words and put the meaning in the context of the whole conversation, otherwise you might be mistaken, especially given the habit of especially pin_dos to chew words.

          King's army / Kings' army


          in English that
          -hound dog,
          -that bitch-dog, (you mustn't even say it, who comes up with this?)
          -that cat-cat,
          -that the cat is cat.
          there are kinds of the lioness and the tigress, but
          - the elephant does not have her own name, and even the mare has a different word not related to the main one.
          Those few unfortunate words
          -waiter-stewart, white
          -waiter -stuartres, whitres
          your English primitive stump from the Great and Mighty.
          1. smaug78
            smaug78 3 September 2021 06: 29
            +1
            I did not expect another answer from an ignoramus with puffy cheeks laughing laughing laughing Go on, very funny. And what about childbirth, our funny linguist?
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 3 September 2021 07: 04
              -1
              and I wish you more internet articles,

              Quote: smaug78
              And what about childbirth, our funny linguist?

              and you are also blind, well, ask someone to read it to you.
              1. smaug78
                smaug78 3 September 2021 20: 12
                -1
                Bravo, the fact that an ignoramus with puffy cheeks does not like other languages, in which, like one animal in oranges, these are the problems of an ignoramus laughing Carry on, you are so funny laughing
                1. Bar1
                  Bar1 3 September 2021 20: 37
                  0
                  laughing for no reason is a sign of foolishness ...
                  1. smaug78
                    smaug78 3 September 2021 21: 52
                    -1
                    The reason is an ignoramus with puffy cheeks Timur laughing
          2. kalibr
            kalibr 3 September 2021 10: 15
            -1
            Lord, and this one ... got to English ...
          3. El Barto
            El Barto 3 September 2021 14: 08
            -1
            Are you not aware that linguistic means of transmitting gender, quantity, case are not only suffixes and endings?
            There are also articles for this. Or, like in Japanese, gender and quantity are determined by context and intonation.

            And so yes, the Angian of course a stump of the Great and Mighty. Even two - Low German and French. And what of it?
  • stalkerwalker
    stalkerwalker 2 September 2021 20: 19
    +1
    "Morning has begun in the village!"
    As always, in the best traditions of the site lately, an article written in the spirit of "I heard the ringing ..." is put up for discussion, which speaks of the level of the authors who publish here ...
    We should start with an extremely rash statement.
    ... But at the call of Tsar Peter Alekseevich, who, due to the turbulent events of his childhood, did not receive a full-fledged Russian upbringing and became a fan of everything Western ...

    This statement is a fake, adopted by liberals from history, who draw by the ears either the theory of the tyrannical essence of Ivan the Terrible, as well as Peter the Great, or a hint of the inferiority of the Russian people, which had to be dragged by the ears out of mud and backwardness. It is especially touching when the progressive historians recorded Mikhail Zadornov (rest in peace to him).
    I will refer to Vasily Osipovich Klyuchevsky, who in his "Historical Portraits" directly indicated that
    ... According to the old Russian tradition, Peter began to be taught from the age of five ... He began, of course, with "verbal teaching," that is, he went through the alphabet, the Book of Hours, the Psalter, even the Gospel and the Apostle; everything passed according to the old Russian pedagogical rule was taken by heart. Subsequently, Peter freely held on to the kliros, read and sang in his thin baritone no worse than any sexton; they even said that he could read the Gospel and the Apostle by heart. This is how Tsar Alexei studied; this is how his elder sons began to teach.

    In other words, from the first lines of the next opus of Samsonov, it becomes clear that the author is unfamiliar with the topic, and he scribbled that God will put it on his soul, he says the paper will endure everything.
    So is it worth continuing to discuss this nonsense, if the topic is so vast that to this day there is no consensus?
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 2 September 2021 22: 48
      +1
      Quote: stalkerwalker
      In other words, from the first lines of the next opus of Samsonov, it becomes clear that the author is unfamiliar with the topic, and he scribbled that God will put it on his soul, he says the paper will endure everything.


      Let us reinforce Samsonov with the authority of the diplomat and poet Tyutchev.

      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 3 September 2021 07: 58
        0
        The pyramids in Egypt were also built by the Slavs.
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 3 September 2021 08: 36
          -2
          you are suprativ all which are the same, as if from one inkwell. Nothing on the matter, only defamation remains for you.
      2. kalibr
        kalibr 3 September 2021 10: 12
        0
        And there were those poets who wrote something else ...
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 3 September 2021 10: 34
          -1
          give an example ...
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 3 September 2021 15: 45
            0
            What a primitive Timur you are, just horror. Well, can't you really figure out that I looked at all this in advance and know what to write? Did you write without an example in order to once again incite you to click on the site's piggy bank? As they say - even a tuft of wool from a black sheep.
            Here's to you: Panmongolism ...
            Oh Russia! forget the former glory:
            The two-headed eagle is afflicted
            And yellow children for fun
            Given the shreds of your banners.
            Author: V.S.Soloviev

            Only this is a piece, but you need to read the whole poem!
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 3 September 2021 16: 35
              -1
              did not know that.
              Yes, this Solovyov is perhaps the same bastard as the current one, strange thing, how similar are the forms, what determines the content?
              But this liberalist of the 19th century made a mistake in 1237 at the time of the Mongol invasion of Russia, Russia did not have a two-headed eagle according to OI. So rhymes are so-so-a low-standard product-having lied once, who will believe you?
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 3 September 2021 19: 19
                -1
                Quote: Bar1
                So the rhymes are so-so-a low-quality product

                Like Tyutchev ...
                1. Bar1
                  Bar1 3 September 2021 20: 36
                  0
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Like Tyutchev ...

                  do not understand Russia
                  common arshin not measure
                  she is special to become
                  you can only believe in Russia

                  except for Tyutchev, no one else wrote you in poetry like sleep in oranges.
                  1. kalibr
                    kalibr 4 September 2021 06: 36
                    0
                    Quote: Bar1
                    except for Tyutchev, no one wrote in poetry like that

                    And it's too bad that he wrote that way. It is clear that he poured butter over the heart of various idiots, but in reality this is not so. In reality, consciousness is determined by natural and geographical factors. This is the only difference between the peoples.
  • Keer
    Keer 2 September 2021 23: 48
    0
    Russian-Muscovites have nothing to do with the Rus of ancient Kiev and Galich, that they are supposedly the descendants of wild Finns and Mongols. And the real descendants of the Russes of the times of Oleg and Igor Stary are Ukrainians.
    This very article has the same relation to historical analysis as the "research" conclusions of which are quoted. It is necessary for such works to make a section "propaganda", well, or "counter-propaganda", and not litter history.
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 3 September 2021 07: 58
    0
    Samsonov, what are you worried about the Swedes? Which did not exist then, just as there were no Russians. Your ancestors a million years ago were generally monkeys. Like the ancestors of everyone else.

    What nafig super-ethnic groups in the feudal era, when everything was decided by personal loyalty to a particular feudal lord, and from the point of view of whom to fight with once again there was not much difference, whether your neighbor speaks the same language or not, and the languages ​​themselves, in principle, could not be standard in any significant area.
  • geologist
    geologist 3 September 2021 08: 03
    +2
    I will use the "analogy method" familiar to all geologists. Once Montezuma got screwed up and wrote a letter to the well-known crisis manager Cortez: "Our land is abundant, and there is no one to govern - the Politburo slaughters the people like cattle, officials steal, officers are bored with soldier's jargon, fancy footcloths and Domino's stupid game." Upon learning of this, the Inca Supreme was outraged; forever these Aztecs run ahead of the paravoz and wrote to the effective manager Pizarro: "we have gold, but it enrages everyone and therefore there is no order - come and take us." The Amazon Indians were simply in despair of such impudence and wrote a knotted letter to Orellana - the whole river lives in complete disgrace - come and rule us, if you find us in the jungle ... the Turkish Sultan, the kniez of the Muscovites and the Polish king, and then also Charles XII, in order to confuse everyone and everything.
  • 75 Sergey
    75 Sergey 3 September 2021 08: 15
    0
    Well, give us a book of the true History of Russia, but these passages will not go, we need to build a clear chronology.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 3 September 2021 15: 40
      -1
      First, read the book "Ancient Rus" by V.V. Mavrodin.
  • geologist
    geologist 3 September 2021 09: 58
    +1
    The scribe Shcherbina began the history of the Kuban Cossack army not from the tribes of Israel, but from the muscular athlete Prometheus, who suffered from liver disease, like many of our students who drank cheap wine. " also should come only from heroes.What did the Varangians not please you? If not a history textbook with beautiful pictures about the ancient Greeks, I would have played the Vikings as a child, and so I had to practice fencing with short swords as a slinger against heavy hoplites with long spears and plywood shields from the barrels.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 3 September 2021 10: 09
    +1
    Quote: glory1974
    should know how the Romanovs came to power, how they tried to legitimize it.
    Stop fornicating with words - better do it with your hands. Came and came. No chronicles were rewritten and the Norman theory was not created. I don’t need to plant a conspiracy theory here. Delirium is a gray mare. Moreover, all this history, greatness and the past, poverty ... today, by and large, no one needs anyone. You need tampons, which are either there or not, quality food and drinks. And whether there was an "ice battle" or not, and who won or lost there, both me and you, absolutely no difference! It is not reflected in the salary. Moreover, even if it suddenly turns out that in the past we were greater than now, we will go to demand from the Western countries a "piece of the pie" for ourselves. Like, we were here ... And they told us - and how now? And they will send us three letters and be 100% right
  • Ua3qhp
    Ua3qhp 3 September 2021 10: 15
    +1
    Quote: kalibr
    And the British in general were conquered by the French in 1066 and nothing, no complexes.

    French or Normans?
    And in 1066, the French, as such were already?
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 3 September 2021 15: 39
      -1
      Imagine were. To be more precise, there were residents of the Duchy of Normandy and many other Frenchmen. I had here several articles on the history of the Bayesian carpet and the Battle of Gistings; these materials were also in the journal SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY (Ukraine). You can ask Google, find and read in detail who, with whom, when and how.
  • Konstantin Shevchenko
    Konstantin Shevchenko 3 September 2021 10: 16
    0
    Do you have proof that it was published in 98? That Tacitus himself lived in that century. You can show his works written in that century with confirmation of the date. Here is M.M. Postnikov is critical of your legend, not knowledge, as you claim. This is the point that the modern chronology was compiled by the Protestant Joseph Just Scaliger, you understand that between Tacitus and Scaliger 1500 years according to the chronology of the latter.
    Voltaire's criticism was rather political in nature: the heyday of a negative attitude towards Tacitus was still ahead and reached its climax in Germany, France and England. In Germany, Tacitus was thoroughly criticized by Mommsen, Stahr, Lehmann, and in particular Sievers and Hermann Schiller, who in two major works ("History of the Roman Empire under Nero" and "History of the era of Roman emperors") refers to Tacitus almost only as a very talented and a plentiful material, but an illegible tendentious pamphleteer in them. In France, Amedeus Thierry called for careful handling of Tacitus' data and warned against his aristocratic-nationalist points of view. Similar opinions were held in England by Charles Merival, on the basis of whose works in Russia in the sixties of the XIX century appeared the book by M. A. Dragomanov "The Question of the Historical Significance of the Roman Empire and Tacitus." For us in this criticism, the most interesting is the alarming fact that, in his political views, Tacitus is a supporter of an aristocratic republic of the Italian type of the period of the XIII-XIV centuries.
  • St_Igor
    St_Igor 3 September 2021 12: 09
    +1
    It is much more important today to have a clear understanding of WHAT we want as a people. We want it ourselves, inside, and not according to the prompts of the TV and social networks. The tragedy of the moment is that 99% of the population reduces the issue of national history to a note in small print; few people would think to read it - not such an important issue. And it turns out that having a thousand-year foundation of the works of our ancestors, we idiotically do not want to stand on it, but are looking for support in the "values" of the Western world. Not worth it! That is why reforms are not taking place, it is not possible to lift the country from its knees ... And the Chinese have long worked out everything. They simply did not look for new foundations, but did not forget their old ones, and they use them safely. Why we cannot do this is a mystery.
  • JonnyT
    JonnyT 3 September 2021 12: 49
    +1
    The author, you'd better make an article about the ancient archaeological finds found in Russia and neighboring countries, left by powerful "super-Russians"
    Otherwise, your words are not supported by facts.
  • kig
    kig 3 September 2021 14: 48
    -1
    Samsonov? Samsonov ...
  • kalibr
    kalibr 3 September 2021 15: 32
    -2
    Quote: Sergey1964
    They want their hypothesis to be confirmed.

    That's it!
  • kalibr
    kalibr 3 September 2021 15: 34
    -1
    Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko
    the modern chronology was compiled by the Protestant Joseph Just Scaliger,

    And what does it not suit you if it is confirmed by scientific data? In particular, the same our chronicles and chronicles of other countries. Or are all these hundreds of thousands of volumes fake?
  • Tavrik
    Tavrik 3 September 2021 18: 41
    +2
    The old reminded me: "It is you who descended from a monkey, and I - from Adam and Eve!"
  • Siberian54
    Siberian54 3 September 2021 19: 48
    -1
    VO turns yellow. The second pseudo historical article in one and a half to two months on the topic superiority of the Slavs, well, we are some kind of elves... Or maybe it doesn’t turn yellow, but is simply promoting the Nazi idea of ​​"ancient superhumans who created the country of cities (gardariku), but in fact, a territory fenced with wood-and-earth gardens from a heap of nomads regularly migrating along the Caspian-Black Sea steppeHee! Hee! clearly the ancestors of Ukrainians(the editors have six mistakes and two extra letters in the last word)