Military Review

The collapse of the international communist movement: how Moscow destroyed pro-Soviet forces in Europe with its own hands

207

The Cold War, the great achievements and catastrophic miscalculations of the Soviet Union are still some of the most burning topics, exciting inquisitive minds who are trying to find the truth in the affairs of bygone days.


However, are they really gone, given that we still continue to reap the bitter fruits of the old failures of the Soviets - and will we reap for many, many years to come? ..

In the current environment of analysts and Orientalists, it is extremely fashionable to argue that Russia can once again become a great ideological force on a global scale, competing with both Western neo-Trotskyism and Islamic expansion - and this reasoning perfectly intersects with the topic of our conversation today. This is a difficult topic, very little-known, but extremely important - it concerns one of the pillars on which the international power and reputation of the USSR stood.

Namely: the pillar of the world revolution and the promotion of the idea of ​​communism, which made it possible to spread Moscow's influence even in countries that were completely unfriendly to us.


Flag of the Communist Party of Britain. Photo source: ukip.org

Of course, it is impossible to consider the collapse of the international communist movement in the format of just one article - even a brief description of all the processes of this catastrophe would take, perhaps, the volume of a fairly solid novel. We will try to draw some important conclusions from the analysis of the events of 1956 - those during which the Communist Party of Britain was de facto destroyed without a fight.

Why did the Soviets need international support?


Before we move on to the immediate topic of our conversation, I would like to dwell on such an important point as the expediency of supporting any friendly forces in other countries - and, in particular, in unfriendly countries (which Great Britain was in relation to the USSR).

I propose to consider this issue, again, using the example of Britain itself in the words of the famous classic in the world of military-political strategy Edward Nicolae Luttwak:

“The real reason for British supremacy at sea was the success of its foreign policy in maintaining the balance of power in Europe. by interfering in continental affairs with the aim of countering one of the great powers or a coalition of powers that were on the verge of gaining dominance in continental Europe, the British did not allow an end to the strife. This forced the continental powers to have large land armies, which, in turn, deprived them of the means to create equally large fleets. Superior naval power was the result of a successful strategy, not its cause.

British policy priorities were active diplomacy and the ability to subsidize obedient but poor allies, and not the desire to maintain a high combat readiness of the Royal fleet.

The fact that British supremacy at sea coexisted with the invariably modest funding of the Royal Navy is a clear reflection of the logic of strategy. Conversely, Britain would be in complete contradiction with this paradoxical logic if it sought to achieve dominance solely by building more and more frigates. Britain's European adversaries would have had their hands free to respond to the British naval focus, and they would have begun building their own frigates instead of diverting their resources to waging land wars with each other. Contemporaries who sharply criticized the inadequate allocation of funds for the Royal Navy, including admirals who bitterly complained that the British gold needed by their ships was distributed to foreigners, were guided by common sense, but not by strategic considerations.

Ironically, by the time Mahan's book was published, the British government had abandoned its decades-old policy. Instead of arming Germany's continental adversaries, especially the much-needed Russians, in order to maintain the balance of power on the continent, large funds were allocated to the Royal Navy in order to maintain naval power in a direct competition for building warships with Imperial Germany. Both common sense and public opinion were satisfied. But Mahan gained such resounding fame in Britain not as the author of a guide to the conduct of smart policies, but rather as a propagandist of the policy already formulated: the National Defense Act, which established the "parity" of the British fleet with the two fleets of the strongest continental powers taken together. was adopted in 1889, even before Mahan's first "mind-influencing" book was published.

In the end, both naval power, and the accumulated capital of naval superiority, and a lot of shed blood - all this was brought to the altar in the battles of the First World War. Britain for the first time found itself seriously involved in a land war in Europe, which, most likely, it would have been possible to avoid altogetherif so many resources had not been spent on the naval forces. Whatever we choose to consider as the main reason for all these consequences: a straightforward and inflexible public opinion, which turned British leaders away from following the policies of their predecessors (who financed the railways and arsenals of Tsarist Russia instead of building more battleships), or the lack of strategic clarity of these leaders - in any case, there is little doubt that the agony and decline of Britain was greatly accelerated by policies that reflected Mahan's delusions. "

The meaning of politics, as one of the forms of war, is invariably simple and was formulated centuries ago in ancient Rome - divide and rule. As we can see from the above quote from Luttwak, Britain successfully applied this principle, becoming the greatest empire in the world. The USSR, no less successfully, applied this strategy for its own purposes, using an extensive network of communist and anti-colonial movements, which at other times threatened to completely break the established influence of Europe and the United States, and even pushed the NATO bloc to destruction from within.

Of course, we could ask a question in the spirit of "what if? ..", but, as they say, story does not know the subjunctive mood - she exists to learn from previously made mistakes.

Great pogrom of the British Communist Party


1956 became, without exaggeration, an absolutely turning point in the history of relations between the USSR and other countries and movements of the socialist camp. The Hungarian events, the Suez crisis, the imminent collapse of the British Empire, the report on the "Stalin personality cult" - all this mixed in a monstrous cocktail that dealt an irreparable blow to the communist parties around the world. It is necessary to consider the events of those days in a comprehensive manner - otherwise the picture will be incomprehensible and biased.

So let's go to November 1956.

On King Street, nervous excitement reigns. An emergency meeting of the Executive Committee of the British Communist Party is gathering - the main agenda was the urgent development of a new strategy of behavior in connection with the Hungarian events. CPB delegates are fiercely discussing the forthcoming issue of the Daily Worker, which will focus on the main agenda: counter-revolution in Budapest, fascists eager for power, and the need to rally communists in front of the looming face of the third world war.

Through an intersection from King Street in Trafalgar Square, demonstrators clashed with the police, chanting "law, not war!" A day earlier, French and British air forces bombed Cairo, and a day later, commandos would land in Port Said. The Suez crisis is in full swing, and the geography of its hostilities is very extensive, ranging from the shattered windows of the Foreign Office in Whitehall to the legendary Egyptian pyramids.

The British Empire prepares to die, but refuses to die without a fight. London continues to desperately cling to the largest and most status piece of its heritage - complete control over the Suez Canal, recently nationalized by the Egyptians.

In three months, pressure from the UN, the United States and the USSR will still force France and Britain to withdraw their troops - but now the events are in full swing, and the communist community of England is also involved in them, who are simultaneously passionate about the Soviet invasion of Hungary.

Here we get to know the first nail in the coffin lid of the international network of pro-Soviet Communist Parties: despite the fact that the social bloc is shaken by events of a completely epochal proportion, Moscow does not provide any intelligible information about what is happening. It is only known that Soviet troops are storming Budapest: tank parts, and some quarters are demolished by artillery.

Hungary is a complete mess and confusion. The more liberal government of Imre Nagy, which came to power, sometimes negotiates with the USSR, then loses control over the situation. Two weeks earlier, it seemed that Soviet troops were already leaving the country, and Nagy took power, relying on factory committees and workers' councils - but negotiations in the center of Budapest are thwarted. Nagy is not in control of anything - reprisals begin in the country against military and party leaders loyal to the old regime. The country is literally torn apart by passion and overabundance weapons: lynching becomes a reality, as well as shooting at the raging crowd. The Soviet loyalists do not at all look like victims: they seize arms depots and dig in under the cover of military garrisons.

The collapse of the international communist movement: how Moscow destroyed pro-Soviet forces in Europe with its own hands
One of the most serious mistakes of the USSR was the distorted coverage of events in Hungary. The Central Committee was more interested in eliminating the consequences of the uprising, but not its causes. Photo source: myhungary.net

Today the Hungarian delegates are meeting with a commission from Moscow, and tomorrow all radio stations are broadcasting news about the fact that the troops of the Warsaw Pact are marching on Budapest, and there will be no more negotiations.

British communists (and not only them) were seriously puzzled by what was happening. The whole old line of party agitation was completely inappropriate for the events of November 1956. “The imperialist aggression of France and Britain” suddenly ceased to be the main topic of the day - both party members and ordinary Englishmen were increasingly interested in another question - what about Budapest?

The first sign of a split among the pro-Soviet communists happened a few months earlier. The CPB members were perplexed by the June events in Poznan, Poland, which had been shaken by the first general strike in the history of socialist Poland. The workers destroyed the building of the city party committee and took the city prison by storm. To suppress the riot, Warsaw used a regular army. Rumors spread actively that the Polish communists were unable to cope with food supplies, which was the reason for the strike.

In short, the situation was completely ambiguous - the authorities of the socialist republic with crude violence suppressed the discontent of the starving workers. How to react to this?

The Warsaw Pact bloc itself also hesitated. In February of the same 1956, Nikita Sergeevich Khrushchev read a report in Moscow "on the personality cult of Stalin." Suddenly, communists all over the planet learned that even Soviet Russia could be wrong, and high-ranking party members not only fought for world peace, but also hunted intrigue and fought for personal influence, which caused truly ideological people to suffer.

These events are best characterized by a wonderful quote from the British Marxist historian Eric Hobsbawm:

"The British working class and its party vanguard were in a state of permanent nervous breakdown, close to total hysteria."

In short, the pro-Soviet political forces were in a real knockout - if in the old years the USSR was seen by the Western communists as a “paradise of the working class”, then in 1956 the situation changed radically, which was shortsightedly ignored by Moscow.

The Communist Party of Britain honestly fulfilled its duty and for some time was even able to stop the processes of ideological split in its ranks thanks to consolidation around the leaders of the movement. CPB Secretary General John Gollan, with the support of the main party ideologist Rajani Palmi Dutta, expressed the official position of the party around which he tried to gather his associates:

“The imperialists are striving to take revenge for the defeat in World War II. If the rebels in Hungary win, they will not spare any of the communists. Nagy does not control the country. He assured us otherwise, but in the end we see photographs of disfigured party members executed right on the street. Hungary will become a dagger aimed at the heart of Soviet Eastern Europe, followed by NATO forces. "

But the crisis had already made itself felt - it was inevitable. Palmi Dutt later recalled that it all began with a report by Khrushchev in 1956:

“It was impossible to hide him. What once looked like the glare of the sun has turned into a storm. Nobody wanted to discuss workers' rights or iron smelting anymore. Everyone asked: I had a friend in Moscow before - so it turns out that Stalin killed him? "

Monty Johnstone, head of the British Komsomol (Communist Youth League), also touches on this topic in his memoirs. The summer and autumn of 1956 shocked communists all over the world, but the Soviet Central Committee stubbornly rejected all attempts to discuss what was happening, insisting that the events in Moscow and Poznan had already ended, and there was no need to discuss them further. But the Politburo could not hide from the problems so easily - everyone was too much worried about the "Moscow report" and the events in Budapest.

The main question literally hung in the air - why do communists kill communists?

By the way, in 1942 MI-5 installed wiretapping equipment on King Street and closely monitored the situation. The observations were reflected in the report "On Two Dons" (this name was chosen for a reason - thus the British secret services compared the general secretary and ideologist of the CPB John Gollan and Palmy Dutt with mafia bosses), which reveals very interesting details of private conversations of high-ranking members of the British Communist Party.

So, Pollit attacks Khrushchev with fierce criticism for the fact that he made a report "on the cult of Stalin's personality", without allowing anyone to prepare and without informing the international communist movement in any way. On that fateful day of February, the "main Russian communist" (yes, this was the title Nikita Sergeevich once bore) detonated an information bomb, the effect of which turned out to be more terrible than an atomic war. Worse, Khrushchev did not give any opportunity for an adequate reaction to the ideologists of pro-Soviet parties around the world - and if in Europe the communists, in the end, simply turned their backs on the USSR, then in the person of China, Moscow got a sworn enemy.

The general misunderstanding was reflected in the latest issue of the Daily Worker on November 5, 1956. Below you can see an excerpt from this issue:

“The Hungarian events mean a crisis in the world labor movement. We must urgently find answers to important questions: how are we different from Moscow, and how will workers' democracy work in England? The aggression of British imperialism is monstrous: we are climbing into Egypt for profits, but after the "Moscow report", the events in Poland and Hungary, we must understand what is wrong in the world communist movement. "

Dorothy Thompson (managing editor of the Daily Worker) wrote in her diary about total impotence:

“We knew about the success of labor. We knew how the Red Army liberated Europe. We knew that the capitalist press belittles the successes of the Soviet economy and frightens the layman with the economic crisis and Soviet tanks. But now we have no answers. We knew that socialism lay ahead. Yes, we knew that either socialism or barbarism awaited us. But we did not understand how to move from the events in Hungary and Poland to the post-capitalist world and how to tell the British worker about it. Why is the Red Army acting like British commandos in Egypt? "

Subsequently, Dorothy Thompson left the British Communist Party before the end of the year.


One of the central causes of the ideological crisis was, in fact, the figure of Imre Nagy himself. In 1955, Khrushchev desperately tried to save him from the clutches of Janos Kador, of whose atrocities the Central Committee was more than aware. But already in 1956, Khrushchev himself declared Nagy a "counter-revolutionary". Photo source: sensusnovus.ru

Naturally, the CPB could not sit idly by. Secretary General John Gollan sent party journalists to Budapest - the latter were supposed to confirm the official position of Moscow and collect evidence testifying to the "fascist rebellion in Hungary." Reports fell on King Street like a tub of water - yes, atrocities really reigned on the streets, officials were lynched without trial, but the reason for this was not communism, but bureaucracy and poverty.

Suddenly, the situation in Budapest turned out to be even more complicated than any expectations and much more complicated than any instructions from Moscow. The unexpected arrest of Hungarian ministers made the situation even more confusing.

In short, even looking at the events with their own eyes, the British communists could not come to an understanding of the situation - and was it possible, given the passive behavior of the Moscow Politburo?

It was not clear how to describe the prerequisites for the uprising and how to explain them to the workers? Hungarians decided to tear to pieces the communists? No, it wasn't like that. Communists attacked the Hungarians? No, this version also has nothing to do with the truth. Perhaps the negotiation process would bear fruit? But why then did it all end with Soviet tanks?

If the Manchester workers did not obey the decrees of the revolution, could we force them to obey by firing squad?

- from a private letter from John Ross Campbell, British communist activist and editorial chief of the Daily Worker.

The international communist movement was experiencing a terrible ideological crisis. The theoretical reasoning of the Marxists instantly turned out to be powerless in the face of practice ...

Moscow, meanwhile, was bursting with a stream of telegrams - everyone was especially worried about the fate of the leaders of the Hungarian workers' collectives (which is not surprising, given that the communists of Europe were consolidated precisely among the working class). Moscow was indifferent and silent - its only reaction was either silence or stereotyped dry phrases about the successes of world socialist construction.

The line of no return was passed - the shock and misunderstanding passed. The Politburo left the Communist Parties of the entire world alone with a distinct sense of betrayal.

In the blink of an eye, the USSR became a source of counter-revolution and imperialism for its own followers. Marxist circles were everywhere replaced by newborn and previously unknown Trotskyist organizations, which, unlike Moscow, could provide answers to the previously pro-Soviet youth of Europe.

At the same moment, the British Empire collapsed: Anthony Eden resigned, the Anglo-French troops left Egypt in disgrace. The revolution in Britain still did not happen, and Moscow remained arrogantly silent about the questions of the working people.

Nineteen journalists left the Daily Worker, and the mouthpiece of pro-Soviet ideas in Britain fell silent. The Communist Party was disintegrating and dying before our eyes. Not only did its structure break down, but personal ties also collapsed. Here is what Allison MacLod, one of the oldest leaders of the CPB, wrote about this:

“Even marriages break up. Thompson does not speak to Kettle. Cornforth promised to remain in the party, but on the day of the execution Nadia sent a check for a thousand pounds and a party card by registered mail. Miriam Palmi Dutt left her husband ... ".

British communists (as well as everyone else) tried to understand - what would happen if a revolution happened in England itself? Will the CPB be able to come to an agreement with Moscow, or will Soviet tanks rumble through the streets of London, as happened in Budapest? Will the Soviet Politburo give at least some power and freedom of choice to the British communists, or will it crush any expression of the will of the British workers?

Due to the silence of Moscow, what is happening in Hungary gave rise to completely fantastic versions of what is happening.

Some timidly expressed their thoughts out loud that the "Trotskyist Khrushchev" had decided to drown the Polish and Hungarian "Stalinist workers" in blood. On the contrary, others said that the "Stalinist Khrushchev" was fighting against the "democrat Nagy" who wanted to return Leninism. Others reasonably objected to them - what kind of Khrushchev was a Stalinist, if he was the one who read the report?

Perhaps it was Nagy who was a Stalinist? But no, he was against Stalin. Then, probably, the fascists really raised their heads in Budapest?

Why, then, did the Soviet Union first withdraw its troops and then attacked Budapest? Is Nagy or Khrushchev to blame for this?

No one really understood anything.

By the end of 1956, the CPB had lost more than 9 members (this was a real disaster, given that its total number was only 000 thousand - it must be admitted that England did not reach the almost two million Italian Communist Party). The Scottish miners' union and the British firemen's union left the party in full force. Even the most fierce supporters of the Soviet world left - Max Morris, who back in November desperately defended Moscow's position, tore up his party card and quarreled with Palmy Dutt.

The best of all what was happening was described by the direct participants in the events. For example, here is what the Marxist historian Eric Hobsbawm left in his diaries:

“I, an old British Marxist, feel like a fool. I have always had an umbilical cord connecting me with Moscow, with the revolution, with the homeland of all workers. It was inconceivable for me to break off relations with the cradle of the revolution - and I remain in the party. But I do it out of habit. I don’t know whom I betray more: myself, the idea, or the Soviet Union ”.

Henry Bowett, British Communist Party member:

“Now I knew that my brother, who left for the Soviet Union in the 30s and was shot in Moscow, was not an MI5 spy. Now I know - he, like me, is a communist. I do not regret that I joined the party - but now I should leave it. I am a communist - but the party is not communist. "

Arthur Merron, head of the internal committee on party democracy of the CPB:

“I am examining letters from activists. The Soviet Union was unconditionally right in stopping the counter-revolution in Hungary. But Khrushchev's speech about Stalin ... my deputy said that she would no longer go to meetings, that we are all counter-revolutionaries ... She is leaving the party. I think that the situation can still be corrected - but I do not know how ... ".

At the end of the year, the leadership of the party also changed - the tension of the Hungarian crisis broke many prominent CPB figures (such as Harry Pollita, who died of a stroke a few years later). The previously mentioned head of the editorial board of the Daily Worker, John Ross Campbell, became the man in charge of contacts with Moscow. He tried to establish contacts with the Soviet Politburo and resolve the ideological difficulties that arose in the movement, having received an answer to the main question: is it possible to repeat events similar to Budapest in 1956?

Moscow by that time began to remotely realize the consequences of its actions in Hungary (and especially the consequences of its uncertain position): the Soviet leadership began to desperately convince the European communists that what happened in Budapest was a tragic exception that will never happen again.

But the process could no longer be stopped: the communists of the whole world gradually began to divide into those who advocated cooperation with the USSR, and those who wanted independence from "Soviet imperialism."

The last nail in the coffin of the British Communist Party (and, alas, many others) was the events of 1968 in Czechoslovakia. Twelve years later, it turns out that the USSR did not keep its promises - and the final collapse of the pro-Soviet movements could no longer be stopped.

John Campbell will write a letter to Moscow filled with anger over the events in Prague: why did the Union promise the countries of Eastern Europe freedom of self-government, provided there was no repression and the threat of withdrawal from the Warsaw Pact, and again unleashed its military power against fellow socialists?

The Soviet Union was unanswered - probably, even in Moscow itself, they did not know the answer to this question.

The European Communist Parties literally disappeared before our very eyes, losing control over the trade union movement. Their members spilled over into neo-Trotskyist and European socialist movements until Moscow finally lost at least some leverage on public opinion and political circles in Europe.

As an afterword


Now it is difficult to imagine a situation in which Moscow possessed not only hearts and minds, but also had an organized lobby in countries that we now consider absolutely inaccessible not only to the influence of Russia, but also, perhaps, to any constructive dialogue with our country.

Unfortunately, to this day we underestimate the capabilities of the notorious “soft power”, this supposedly “newfangled” instrument, which was once perfectly mastered by the USSR.

Of course, now the problems of a particular British Communist Party look alien, distant and incomprehensible to us - we can hardly realize the tragedy of the events of 1956 and 1968, because to this day we do not understand the consequences of the collapse of the pro-Soviet communist movements. And the consequences are quite simple - in the end, the once pro-Soviet forces came to power in Europe, which, after a series of crises, were reformatted into Eurosocialists and neo-Trotskyists.

Forces that now take a deeply anti-Soviet and anti-Russian position.

The forces that the Soviet Union once nurtured with its own hands.
Author:
Photos used:
idcommunism.com ukip.org myhungary.net sensusnovus.ru
207 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 1 September 2021 03: 47
    +3
    Eh, Iosif Vissarionovich did not see Khrushchev's nature, did not see it.
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 1 September 2021 04: 12
      +4
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Eh, I did not see Joseph Vissarionovich

      What can you do: every Caesar has his own Brutus.
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 1 September 2021 07: 03
      -11
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Eh, Iosif Vissarionovich did not see Khrushchev's nature, did not see it.

      in vain you are: he "discerned" the nature of the members of the entire first composition of the Politburo, the Orgburo, the first SNK, the chief of the General Staff of the Red Army, the Revolutionary Military Council, the Presidential Council of Ministers (SNK) of the USSR, heaps of people's commissars and 75% of the Central Committee of 1934 (well, the party came out belay request ), as well as brothers, sisters of their wives, their wives, husbands, children, their matchmaker, daughter-in-law and son-in-law, etc.

      So build it in vain.

      ... He was not deceived in the natures of his loyal companions, who worked side by side with him for decades, the loyal Stalinists: Molotov, Voroshilov, Kaganovich, Mikoyan: they together, in one voice, condemned the cult of personality at the 20th Congress. Yes

      if in the old days the USSR was seen by the Western communists as a "paradise of the working class", then in 1956

      it is surprising that there was no mass flight of Western workers to the "paradise of the working class" - the damned capitalists apparently put an army and police on the borders to prevent the workers from escaping there.

      Only a few of them managed to get into the USSR (for example, the German communists), but there, in paradise, they were quickly issued Yes
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 1 September 2021 07: 07
        +3
        Quote: Olgovich
        it is surprising that there was no mass flight of Western workers to the "paradise of the working class" - the damned capitalists apparently put an army and police on the borders to prevent the workers from escaping there.
        On the other hand, a mass race of the peasantry of workers and the intellectuals who joined them took place from the wonderful tsarism past the corrupt undercapitalists to the lousy unfinished, but much more loyal to the people of labor, socialism.
      2. Unknown
        Unknown 1 September 2021 15: 13
        +4
        Quote: Olgovich
        row you like this: he "discerned" the nature of the members of the entire first composition of the Politburo, the Orgburo, the first SNK, the chief of the General Staff of the Red Army, the Revolutionary Military Council, the Council of Ministers (SNK) of the USSR, heaps of people's commissars and 75% of the Central Committee of 1934 (well, the party left), as well as brothers, sisters of their wives, their wives, husbands, children, their matchmaker, daughter-in-law and son-in-law, etc., etc.

        Not as pity appeared. Tears flowed, for which he cruelly. It is necessary to go to a sanatorium with doctors and personal nutritionists. And he them, and someone else, to the wall. Nasty and bad, what.
        Quote: Olgovich
        ... He was not deceived in the natures of his loyal companions, who worked side by side with him for decades, the loyal Stalinists: Molotov, Voroshilov, Kaganovich, Mikoyan: they together, in one voice, condemned the cult of personality at the 20th Congress.

        How is Nikolashka then, he was not deceived in V.K. , from the Holstein-Gottorp clan? For example, what was Grand Duke Nikolai Nikolaevich doing there? I sent a telegram to Nicholas II, with an appeal "to transfer ... the legacy, there is no other way out." And what about the other great dukes Mikhail Alexandrovich, Pavel Alexandrovich, Kirill Vladimirovich? They also condemned Nikolashka in unison. Yes, the tsar overlooked his relatives. Maybe he looked a little more, slapped one another on a relative, looking like he would sit on the throne, another ten years.
        Quote: Olgovich
        it is surprising that there was no mass exodus of workers in the West - the damned capitalists apparently set up an army and police on the borders to prevent the workers from escaping there.

        Only a few of them managed to get into the USSR (for example, the German communists), but there, in paradise, they were quickly issued

        What for? Western workers themselves came en masse in 41 to see the "paradise of the working class." I had enough impressions for the rest of my life.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 1 September 2021 15: 49
          -11
          Quote: Unknown
          Not as pity appeared. Tears flowed, for which he cruelly. It is necessary to go to a sanatorium with doctors and personal nutritionists. And he them, and someone else, to the wall. Nasty and bad, what.

          On the contrary, it turned out remarkably - ALL of Lenin's guards - to zero. good

          And what kind of relatives the secretary general of the 1930s turned out to be, as if on selection: saboteurs, spies, poisoners, etc. Yes

          Quote: Unknown
          How is Nikolashka then, he was not deceived in V.K.

          belay did not hear that the emperor was accused after death of a personality cult by his associates
          Quote: Unknown
          And what about the other great dukes Mikhail Alexandrovich, Pavel Alexandrovich, Kirill Vladimirovich? Also amicably condemned Nikolashka.

          fool
          Quote: Unknown
          But why?

          в paradise working class-didn’t make it? And they are here, who got there, rrrrazz-and yes ...
          Quote: Unknown
          Western workers themselves came in large numbers in 41 to see the "paradise of the working class"

          How well your slogan "Workers of the Soviet Union, Unite!"

          Cool your talkers obds, yes
          1. Sugar Honeyovich
            Sugar Honeyovich 1 September 2021 18: 08
            +8
            Quote: Olgovich
            did not hear that the emperor was accused after death of a personality cult by his associates

            Not surprising. To have a cult, you need to have a personality laughing
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 1 September 2021 18: 41
              -14
              Quote: Sahar Medovich
              to have

              not at all: if you had told you to praise the ST (telegraph pole), you would have shouted "Glory to ST!" lol

              Or ... bold? belay lol

              Or will you show such rejected daredevils? Oh, I remembered such a - in Ivan Vasilievich he was changing his profession. lol
              1. Sugar Honeyovich
                Sugar Honeyovich 2 September 2021 03: 18
                -1
                And is this: praise, someone said? There is an opinion that it came from the bottom. As well as equating Lenin with Christ.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 2 September 2021 07: 09
                  -9
                  Quote: Sahar Medovich
                  And is this: praise, someone said? There is an opinion that it came from the bottom.

                  no one in their right mind did this nonsense "from below": I have lived since Khrushchev's times and have not heard such a thing.

                  Only party leaders.
                  Quote: Sahar Medovich
                  As well as equating Lenin with Christ.

                  in the yellow house, maybe.
                  1. Sugar Honeyovich
                    Sugar Honeyovich 2 September 2021 08: 39
                    0
                    That's right - from the Khrushchevs. But who lived 30 years earlier ..
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    in the yellow house, maybe.

                    If peasant huts are yellow houses ... But this is not so! Yes
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 2 September 2021 08: 46
                      -8
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      That's right - from the Khrushchevs. But who lived 30 years earlier

                      that's exactly - before that it was generally on an absurd scale - the so-called. it is impossible to listen to party "congresses" because of such endless screams
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      If peasant huts are yellow houses

                      hut house.

                      By the way, you haven’t proved this one.
                      1. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 2 September 2021 09: 29
                        -1
                        And after that? When HIS portraits were carried on the windows of cars - did someone say it or yourself? As well as the current "Name of Russia".
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        have never been proven.

                        Well-known facts do not require proof. If you lived in the USSR, you should know this yourself.
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 2 September 2021 09: 46
                        -7
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And after that? When HIS portraits were carried on the windows of cars - did someone say it or yourself?

                        lol laughing tears.

                        You'd better remember how you threw him out of the pyramid, and 200 million people did not even notice: how he went there before and after, and no protests, no demonstrations, nothing. And these are the people who lived then, not the ignorant today.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Well-known facts do not require proof. If you lived in the USSR, you should know this yourself.

                        fool what "well-known", what "facts"?
                        there are no such facts, you, frantically digging, have not found a single one.
                      3. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 2 September 2021 15: 12
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        laughing tears.

                        You are clearly not laughing. There is a constant hysteria about "creeping Stalinism." And besides the facts, I have nothing.
                      4. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 2 September 2021 15: 22
                        -5
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        You are clearly not laughing

                        belay 200 Soviet people and DIDN'T notice that they were removed from the pyramid, as if there was nothing: neither you nor mass demonstrations, nor protests. AND ALL the highest composition, faithful lol members of the Central Committee, parties UNANIMOUSLY condemned the cult of personality.

                        it is a fact
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        creeping change

                        and, he will come, put things in order? lol fool laughing
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And besides the facts I have nothing

                        not one, yes.
                      5. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 3 September 2021 17: 08
                        -1
                        So what are you afraid of now?
                      6. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 4 September 2021 07: 41
                        -4
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        So what are you afraid of now?

                        belay fool lol
                        WHAT to be afraid of- ?!

                        he will come, put things in order? belay lol
                      7. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 5 September 2021 03: 31
                        -1
                        You know better. tongue
                      8. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 5 September 2021 10: 10
                        -1
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        You know better

                        no, you love the pyramid mummies and wait for them .... resurrection belay lol
                      9. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 5 September 2021 18: 07
                        0
                        You, apparently, too. If you can't sleep well.
                      10. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 6 September 2021 09: 59
                        -1
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        You, apparently, too. If you can't sleep well.

                        you really don't need to project your illnesses onto others Yes
                      11. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 6 September 2021 12: 55
                        -1
                        I will never have such diseases. I'm not you.
                      12. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 7 September 2021 10: 38
                        0
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        I will never have such diseases.

                        this is understandable: all patients say so Yes
                      13. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 9 September 2021 11: 41
                        -1
                        You can see it. lol
                      14. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 9 September 2021 12: 40
                        -1
                        all patients say so Yes
          2. Unknown
            Unknown 1 September 2021 19: 42
            +1
            Quote: Olgovich
            On the contrary, it turned out remarkably - ALL of Lenin's guards - to zero.

            And what kind of relatives the secretary general of the 1930s turned out to be, as if on selection: saboteurs, spies, poisoners, etc.

            Lenin can be called in part. there were many. as the leader spoke of the Bund bastards. so there it is and the road. Urgently for RENTIVI. I.V. Stalin had brothers and sisters. Nobody knew. did not see. works were written. eminent historians. and then they appeared. Sensation! There is no need to remember everyone. Yenukidze. Alliluyevs. Svanidze. they are not worth it. At the present time, there is also Svanidze. but not a relative. nothing good about him.
            Quote: Olgovich
            did not hear that the emperor was accused after death of a personality cult by his associates

            Correctly noticed. what a personality Nikolashka is. so-so not a fish. not meat. But he loved praise. How is it there "
            God save the Tsar!
            Strong, powerful,
            Reign for glory, for glory to us!
            Reign for fear of enemies
            The Orthodox King!
            God save the Tsar!
            "So he reigned before. to the Ipatyevsky House. And what about VK.? They gathered an army. and send the king to rescue. together with family. tea are not strangers? No, they quickly pulled it to Europe. who was not allowed to flow in the heat of the moment. Maybe Generals Kornilov. Denikin. Wrangel. and Kolchak rushed to free the king? Well no. they didn't need him. Cossacks with Krasnov? Those, too, did not remember the king. they spat on him. from the Quiet Don.
            Quote: Olgovich
            How well your slogan "Workers of the Soviet Union, Unite!"

            Cool your talkers obds, yes

            There, another slogan famously worked "nationalists of all countries unite!" We went and swore to walk for 50 years. Now the desire has appeared again. The kings are not the same.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 1 September 2021 20: 11
              -9
              Quote: Unknown
              Lenin can be called in part. there were many.

              aha-Bukharin, (the best Bolshevik is said to be Karla), the lion of the revolution Trotsky and other tyatakovs, radeks, zinovievs and pr-karla loved them.
              Quote: Unknown
              Urgently for RENTIVI. I.V. Stalin had brothers and sisters. Nobody knew. did not see. works were written. eminent historians

              belay fool for tankers again:
              saw through: brothers, sisters their wives, their wives, husbands, children, their matchmaker, daughter-in-law and son-in-law
              Quote: Unknown
              God save the Tsar!
              Strong, powerful,
              Reign for glory, for the glory of us

              the anthem of Russia was approved in 1833 - long before Nicholas 2
              Quote: Unknown
              And what about VK.?

              they had no real opportunity, power and strength.

              Yours betrayed Stalin absolutely EVERYTHING, but they were in the highest posts and could do everything, but no
              Quote: Unknown
              There, another slogan famously worked "nationalists of all countries unite!"

              belay on his table ..

              but what about yours, my dear, did not work? lol
              1. Unknown
                Unknown 2 September 2021 09: 58
                -1
                Quote: Olgovich
                aga-bukharin, (the best Bolshevik is Karla said), the lion of the revolution Trotsky and other tyatakovs, radeks, zinovievs and pr-karla loved them

                So Trotsky and Radek were the Bundists. Bukharin, just like the favorite of the Holstein-Gottorp, Prince Yusupov, was allowed to marry a princess of imperial blood, Irina Alexandrovna, daughter of Grand Duke Alexander Mikhailovich and Grand Duchess Xenia Alexandrovna, sister of Nicholas II. Fate is also somewhat similar, he loved intrigues, conspiracies, participated in the murder of Rasputin. True, he left Russia in time with his wife, and remained alive. And who is there Comrade. Lenin complained, or not, it is not known, he knew his comrades-in-arms better.
                Quote: Olgovich
                for tankers again:
                saw through: brothers, sisters of their wives, their wives, husbands, children, their matchmaker, daughter-in-law and son-in-law

                Like anyone who is not Russian, do not wag in one place, the brothers are mentioned.
                Quote: Olgovich
                the anthem of Russia was approved in 1833 - long before Nicholas 2

                But Nikolashka loved him most of all.
                Quote: Olgovich
                they had no real opportunity, power and strength.

                Yours betrayed Stalin absolutely EVERYTHING, but they were in the highest posts and could do everything, but no

                Your tsar also betrayed absolutely EVERYTHING, starting with the generals, ending with VK. Kirill Vladimirovich together with the guards crew, Nikolai Nikolaevich with the Caucasian front, Mikhail with the throne, and then it went on. Even Baron Fredericks, abandoned the king. And where are the slender ranks of the monarchists, whom the VK was supposed to lead? In France, the royalists, what were they trying to do there, for example, the Vandemier rebellion, etc. Have Russian monarchists evaporated? Or maybe they weren't? The monarchy is rotten through and through. WAS - one staff - captain Ovechkin
                Quote: Olgovich
                but what about yours, my dear, did not work?

                Nationalism turned out to be stronger in Europe. And the leaders were anywhere. But nothing, taught the mind to the mind.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 2 September 2021 10: 47
                  -5
                  Quote: Unknown
                  So Trotsky, Radek were the Bundists Bukharin

                  these are the highest functions RSDLPb and regime
                  Quote: Unknown
                  Like anyone who is not Russian, do not wag in one place, the brothers are mentioned.

                  a non-Russian unknown wags his head and does not know when to put a comma:
                  brothers, sisters of their wives
                  ..
                  Quote: Unknown
                  But Nikolashka loved him most of all.

                  Where is the praise to HIS address that you carried above?
                  Quote: Unknown
                  Your tsar also betrayed absolutely EVERYTHING, starting with the generals, ending with the VK. Kirill Vladimirovich together with the guards crew, Nikolai Nikolaevich with the Caucasian front, Mikhail with the throne

                  Nobody betrayed, especially the KV with a guards crew.

                  NOBODY, like Stalin, his "faithful" associates, did not accuse him of all sorts of crimes and cult. Abomination.

                  Quote: Unknown
                  The monarchy is rotten through and through.

                  your regime completely rotted away - it collapsed due to the complete indifference of ALL., and Russia fought the invaders for decades
                  1. Unknown
                    Unknown 2 September 2021 13: 53
                    -1
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    these are the highest functions of the RSDLPb and the regime

                    There were also lower ranks, enough.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    a non-Russian unknown wags his head and does not know when to put a comma:

                    Here, here, you need to know when it is placed.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Where is the praise to HIS address that you carried above?

                    Reign for glory, for the glory of us! Isn't that praise? The name is not called? He is a king, even if he is so-so.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Nobody betrayed, especially the KV with a guards crew.

                    NOBODY, like Stalin, his "faithful" associates, did not accuse him of all sorts of crimes and cult. Abomination.

                    To protect the dynasty and the throne of the KV, he spoke together with the crew. Wow, no one noticed, and neither did he. But this happens in the inflamed brains of exalted monarchists. Often wishful thinking. You can't blame yourself for all sorts of Holstein-Gottorp crimes. One can safely be called a parricide, another kept a youngster for life in Shlisselburg, and then killed, another shot the disgruntled, in St. Petersburg, Moscow, Siberia, he could send trains with a firing squad across the country. The dynasty has many shoals, some are such an abomination that it is not necessary to remember.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    your regime completely rotted away - it collapsed due to the complete indifference of ALL., and Russia fought the invaders for decades

                    Not everyone was indifferent, but some were. Someone took the AK in their hands and went to defend the DPR, and someone sat out in Chisinau. Someone together with the Vilnius and Riga riot police defended the integrity of the state, and someone hated the Union, and wanted collapse, as there are different not finishing off, of which the Soviet government with a fool I regretted, and learned on my own head, such smart ones.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 2 September 2021 15: 04
                      -5
                      Quote: Unknown
                      Were and lower rank, enough.

                      And? fool Does this cancel the total destruction of the favorites of Karla and and the party?
                      Quote: Unknown
                      Here, here, you need to know when she puttysI am.

                      a connoisseur who does not know Russian, you not only don’t know punctuation, but also where the soft mark is placed lol

                      real "hare" lol
                      Quote: Unknown
                      To protect the dynasty and the throne of the KV, spoke together with the crew

                      exactly.
                      Quote: Unknown
                      You can't blame yourself for all sorts of Holstein-Gottorp crimes. One can safely be called a patricide, another kept a youngster for life in Shlisselburg, and then killed, another shot the disgruntled, in St. Petersburg, Moscow, Siberia, he could send trains with a firing squad across the country. Dynasty has many shoals

                      compared to the crimes of the next regime, this is generally zero.

                      massacre of tens of thousands of insurgent peasants, with the help of artillery, aircraft and gases, mass hostage and blackmail, savage medieval torture, extrajudicial exile of many millions of peasants, peoples, exile of a million children, arrest per year 1 million 600 thousand executions per year 680 thousand was nowhere.

                      no one else in the world has a higher person's brothers / sisters of his wives, their wives, husbands, second husbands and children, matchmaker, son-in-law and daughter-in-law did not turn out to be spies, terrorists, poisoners, shot and planted - hack to death on the forehead.
                      Quote: Unknown
                      Not everyone was indifferent, but some were.

                      absolutely everyone, a liar: no one took to the streets in defense.
                      Quote: Unknown
                      The Soviet power with a fool regretted, and learned on its own head, such clever

                      people studied well before and without her, continue to study and after, look at the whole world, how he got along BEAUTIFULLY without her and lives on without noticing the "loss" lol failed losers / bankrupts lol
                      1. Unknown
                        Unknown 2 September 2021 19: 51
                        -3
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        AND? Does this cancel the total destruction of the favorites of Karla and and the party?

                        Were they favorites? Not at all. No need to engage in intrigues. would be so alive.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        a connoisseur who does not know Russian, you not only don’t know punctuation, but also where the soft mark is placed

                        You also do not shine with knowledge of Russian, defender of the nobility. The soft sign should not be used in the word and before "-sya" if the verb is in the third person singular present tense. Yes, and every sentence starts with a capital letter, like names.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        exactly.

                        Together with sailors, and red bows.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        compared to the crimes of the next regime, this is generally zero.

                        massacre of tens of thousands of insurgent peasants, with the help of artillery, aircraft and gases, mass hostage and blackmail, savage medieval torture, extrajudicial exile of many millions of peasants, peoples, exile of a million children, arrest per year 1 million 600 thousand executions per year 680 thousand was nowhere.

                        no one else in the world has a higher person's brothers / sisters of his wives, their wives, husbands, second husbands and children, matchmaker, son-in-law and daughter-in-law did not turn out to be spies, terrorists, poisoners, shot and planted - hack to death on the forehead.

                        And then the monarchist suffered! By the way. a connoisseur of the Russian language is spelled "inviolate". Why 1 million 680 thousand? Take more. two, three million. what trifles. The main thing to blurt out. and there they will figure it out. With such a talent. it is good to trade in seeds in the bazaar. together with the seller, the trace is gone.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        absolutely everything, a liar: no one took to the streets in defense

                        The habit of calling everyone that. because he himself is.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        people studied well before and without her, continue to study and after, look at the whole world, how he got along BEAUTIFUL without her and lives on, not noticing the "loss" of failed losers / bankrupts

                        Especially would have learned in România Mare. like wiping snot with a sleeve. still would have continued. Fortunately, the Soviet government taught from whom to eat the radish.
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 3 September 2021 09: 12
                        -3
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Were they favorites? Not at all.

                        Do not honor your carl at all, yes.
                        Quote: Unknown
                        No need to engage in intrigues. would be so alive.

                        what intrigues? fool
                        Read the sentences of the USSR Armed Forces to Bukharin and other ovseenko are SPIES and TERRORISTS
                        Quote: Unknown
                        The soft sign should not be used in the word and before "-sya" if the verb is in the third person singular present tense

                        and you use, ignoramus, it is you:
                        Unknown putmbcя
                        ..
                        Quote: Unknown
                        By the way. a connoisseur of the Russian language is spelled "inviolate".

                        parrot? I have it written like that: hostage
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Why 1 million 680 thousand?

                        because it is so written in owls DOCUMENTS, an ignoramus: the Pospelov commission, Pavlov's certificate
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Especially learned would in România Mare. like wiping snot with a sleeve. still continued would... Fortunately, the Soviet government taught from whom to eat the radish.

                        lol yours is a pathetic zero.

                        And the WHOLE WORLD learned WITHOUT any Soviet power.
                        And now she studies perfectly when she is
                      3. Unknown
                        Unknown 3 September 2021 20: 15
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        do not honor your carl at all, yes

                        We honor and not only we. in China for example
                        All over the world they pay tribute to V.I. Lenin. But the cuckold Nikolashka
                        only exalted personalities. with a head not friendly.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        what intrigues?
                        Read the sentences of the USSR Armed Forces to Bukharin and other ovseenko are SPIES and TERRORISTS

                        So they were. Any doubts? Marvelous . an ardent anti-Soviet came to the defense of Bukharin and others like him. There are two options. or is not on friendly terms with the head. or spanked correctly. there was no mistake.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        parrot? I have it written like that: hostage

                        Is it?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        because it is so written in owls DOCUMENTS, an ignoramus: the Pospelov commission, Pavlov's certificate

                        Yes, on the fences. also written differently. but not at all true. Whoever did not write these certificates. Rudenko. Kruglov. Pospelov. Pavlov. Shvernik. Yakovlev and even the writer Medvedev. And all the certificates show a different number of prisoners.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        yours is a pathetic zero.

                        And the WHOLE WORLD learned WITHOUT any Soviet power.
                        And now she studies perfectly when she is

                        Especially the former citizens of the USSR in the national republics who graduated from the university for free, and now vilify everyone. Yes, I learned it on my own.
                      4. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 4 September 2021 08: 04
                        -4
                        Quote: Unknown
                        We honor and not only us

                        he loved Bukharin, Zinoviev (even, directly lol ) and so on, read it. And py WHAT are they carrying?
                        Quote: Unknown
                        V.I. Lenin. cuckold

                        this yes-who just didn’t tear And Armand lol
                        Quote: Unknown
                        So they were. Any doubts?

                        Oops !: so many of Stalin's relatives were deservedly slapped and imprisoned, all spies and saboteurs, right? Why keep quiet about them, ashamed? Shame ...

                        And there was delirium about the "espionage" of "the color of the party" (that they were spanked, that's good!) And the state, etc., which was OFFICIALLY confirmed by the state of the USSR, having rehabilitated. Respect the USSR!
                        Quote: Unknown
                        There are two options. or is not on friendly terms with the head. or spanked correctly. there was no mistake.

                        the third is, you are not friends with her, but you didn’t slap
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Yes, on the fences. also written differently. but not at all true. Whoever did not write these certificates. Rudenko. Kruglov. Pospelov. Pavlov

                        on the fence you write powerlessly, you cannot argue intelligibly, but in the documents you wrote official figures- the same for HUNDREDS of thousand killed and one and a half million arrested.

                        In addition to an empty BATTLE-what do you have? Nothing? And isn't it disgusting to flap?
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Especially the former citizens of the USSR in the national republics who graduated from the university for free, and now vilify everyone. Yes, I learned it on my own.

                        it is you, Russophobes, who cut belts out of the body of Russia, "nauional" republics, and education without you would have been faster and better, without stupid courses in the history of Kpps and other useless PURPOSES.
                      5. Unknown
                        Unknown 5 September 2021 06: 49
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        he loved Bukharin, Zinoviev (even, directly) and the other Pyatakovs — read him. And py WHAT are they carrying?

                        They kissed right on the gums, and walked under the arm.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        this yes-who just didn’t tear And Armand

                        Okay, Inessa, an Anglo-French from a bohemian family, it is so accepted there and does not cause surprise. But the queen of blue blood, and with whom is the horse thief !?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Oops !: so many of Stalin's relatives were deservedly slapped and imprisoned, all spies and saboteurs, right? Why keep quiet about them, ashamed? Shame ...

                        And there was delirium about the "espionage" of "the color of the party" (that they were spanked, that's good!) And the state, etc., which was OFFICIALLY confirmed by the state of the USSR, having rehabilitated. Respect the USSR!

                        Relatives, angels with wings were. Once you defend, then you did everything right with them. It is necessary to clarify, Khrushchev rehabilitated. And then not all, but only his own.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        on the fence you write powerlessly, you cannot argue intelligibly, but in the documents you wrote official figures - the same for HUNDREDS of thousands killed and one and a half million arrested.

                        In addition to an empty BATTLE-what do you have? Nothing? And isn't it disgusting to flap?

                        What is intelligible, what is not, it is useless if the wounded man never reaches the head.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        it is you, Russophobes, who cut the belts from the body of Russia - "nautional" republics, and education without you would be faster and better, without stupid courses in the history of Kpps and other useless PURPOSES

                        It is strange to hear accusations of Russophobia from a non-Russian. There was no USSR, and they would eat hominy and poke around in the mud, while cleaning the boots of the Romanians.
                      6. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 5 September 2021 09: 12
                        -1
                        Quote: Unknown
                        They kissed right on the gums, and walked under the arm.

                        in a hut with Radomylsky he mercifully, yes, there is such a thing behind him
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Okay, Inessa, Anglo-French from a bohemian family, it is so accepted there and does not cause surprise

                        Ich and half a rag will do, yes.
                        Quote: Unknown
                        .But the queen of blue bloods, and with whom the horse thief !?

                        in a sick Bolshevik
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Relatives, angels with wings were. Once you protect, then everything was right with them.

                        they were recognized (by dozens of relatives), if not, TERRORISTS, BANDITS and DIVERSANTS. Is this the norm for the head of state? Are you sane?
                        Quote: Unknown
                        It is necessary to clarify, Khrushchev rehabilitated. And then not all, but only his own.

                        you are not Copenhagen here either (as in everything else) -in 1980 years to rehabilitate Bukharin and co
                        Quote: Unknown
                        What is intelligible, what is not, it is useless if the wounded man never reaches the head.

                        yes I see: a wound from birth, you see?
                        Quote: Unknown
                        It's strange to hear from a non-Russian,

                        from a Russian person - non-Russians / Russophobe.
                        Quote: Unknown
                        ... There was no USSR, and they would eat hominy and poke around in the mud, while cleaning the boots of the Romanians

                        there would have been a GREAT RUSSIA no traitors-from the Prut to the Kuriles
                      7. Unknown
                        Unknown 5 September 2021 14: 47
                        -1
                        You never know who came to the hut, and why. We worked together on the article "July Theses". And here is Nikolashka's English relative
                        I put it on him, with the device and banned him from entering the country.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        in a sick Bolshevik

                        Who was Rasputin?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        they were recognized (by dozens of relatives), if not, TERRORISTS, BANDITS and DIVERSANTS. Is this the norm for the head of state? Are you sane?

                        As the saying goes, “I hear the ringing, I don’t know where he is.” contact with active participants in this organization, Yenukidze, Lezhava, and others, and in 1922 established an anti-Soviet connection with Sokolnikov, giving him consent to participate in anti-Soviet activities. In addition, Svanidze was found guilty of sabotage activities, which he carried out in the field of finance, as well as that he participated in the financing of the Trotskyist organization in Spain and was engaged in espionage activities for the benefit of the German intelligence agencies. All to the point. Svanidze's wife Maria, wrote about Yenukidze like this, “Abel, undoubtedly, sitting in such a position, tremendously influenced our life for 1929 years after the revolution. Being himself depraved and voluptuous, he smelled everything around him: he enjoyed pimping, family discord, seduction of girls. Having in his hands all the blessings of life, unattainable for everyone, especially in the first years after the revolution, he used all this for personal dirty purposes, buying women and girls. Sick to talk and write about it. Being erotically abnormal and, obviously, not one hundred percent man, every year he switched to more and more young, and finally came to girls at the age of 1932-17, corrupting their imaginations, corrupting them, if not physically, then morally. This is the foundation of all the outrage that happened around him. Women with suitable daughters owned everything. Girls, as unnecessary, slipped into other men, more unstable morally. The staff was recruited into the institution only by gender, which Abel liked. To justify his debauchery, he was ready to encourage him in everything. ”And so on to all relatives. And then tears are pouring down on them.
                        Quote: Olgovich

                        you are not Copenhagen here either (as in everything else) - in the 1980s, rehabilitate Bukharin and co

                        The main thing is to screw up and mislead, and so on in everything. Bukharin was rehabilitated in 1988 under Gorbachev, when almost everyone was forgiven.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        there would be no you, there would be a GREAT RUSSIA without traitors, from the Prut to the Kuriles

                        So the USSR was from the Prut to the Kuriles, which the king, along with part of Sakhalin, profiled the Japanese, Comrade. Stalin brought it back.
                      8. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 5 September 2021 16: 06
                        -1
                        yy "
                        Quote: Unknown
                        You never know who came to the hut, and why.

                        - occupation in the hut lol
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Rђ RІRѕS,

                        "but" did not engage in pranks
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Who was Rasputin?

                        go to school.
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Svanidze's wife Maria, wrote about Yenukidze like this, “Abel, undoubtedly, sitting in such a position, tremendously influenced our life for 17 years after the revolution. Being himself depraved and voluptuous, he smelled everything around him: he enjoyed pimping, family discord, seduction of girls.

                        Mary who quote belay -Also SHOT-spy. ... Slandered Stalin's friend ?! Right, right? Nukas-come on, whip lol

                        Yenukidze the oldest friend and ally Stalin for FORTY years, the godfather of his wife, the SUPREME official (CEC) of your regime.

                        These are yours, yes

                        As for Maria's husband, on the DESK, the documents about "a group of nationalists are untrue."
                        Quote: Unknown
                        And so on for all relatives. And then tears are pouring down on them.

                        on the TABLE, who loves to lie, guilt papers WIVES / CHILDREN / husbands wives, SWAT, son-in-law, daughter-in-law.
                        disgrace ...

                        Show where else in the world THIS was going on.
                        Quote: Unknown
                        So the USSR was from the Prut to the Kuriles, which the king, along with part of Sakhalin, profiled the Japanese

                        belay lol Kuriles were not transmitted, ignorant

                        I'm talking about RUSSIA, while Russia is cut off by 5 million km2 and Prut has NOT had it since 1918 , an ignorant non-Russian person.
                        In the WINDOW, look, it's YOU cut
                      9. Unknown
                        Unknown 5 September 2021 17: 46
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        "but" did not engage in pranks

                        The kings did a lot of things. in their alcoves.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Maria, whom you are quoting, is also SHOOTED as a spy. ... Slandered Stalin's friend ?! Right, right? Nukas-come on, whip

                        Yenukidze is Stalin's oldest friend and ally for FORTY years, the godfather of his wife, the HIGHEST official (CEC) of your regime.

                        These are yours, yes

                        As for Maria's husband, on the DESK, the documents about "a group of nationalists are untrue."

                        They also shot him for the cause. So look at the documents, everything is at your side
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        on the TABLE, who loves to lie, documents on the guilt of Wives, / CHILDREN / husbands of wives, SWAT, son-in-law, daughter-in-law.
                        disgrace ...

                        Show where else in the world THIS was going on.

                        Well, an exalted liar, no one can surpass. Documents are available, go for it. Just don’t have tea with an anguish of "wives, children" not at the trial, in the role of a defender.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        I'm talking about RUSSIA, and Russia was cut off by 5 million km2 with you, and the Prut has NOT had it since 1918, an ignorant non-Russian person.
                        In the WINDOW, look, it's YOU cut

                        And I'm talking about the USSR. So we sat at our window when the Union was falling apart. So enjoy the change.
                      10. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 6 September 2021 09: 51
                        0
                        Quote: Unknown
                        The kings did a lot of things. in their alcoves.

                        Zinoviev lol -no
                        Quote: Unknown
                        They also shot him for the cause. So look at the documents, everything is at your side

                        they are rehabilitated EVERYTHING, dunno. Therefore, YOU put documents on the table if you accuse (it is not clear what, by the way)

                        And yes - Alexander and Maria Svanidze (spy singer, huh? fool ) - not only relatives, but the closest FRIENDS of Stalin for TEN years: they lived nearby, constantly went to visit, partying, drinking, singing together and spending the night with each other. Got it, didn't it?

                        And Enkizde, Stalin's friend, for FORTY years, what have you forgotten?
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Documents are available, go for it.

                        A - there is nothing but absurd inventions. Blown away, defender of paranoia. Still, you can't argue against the facts.

                        And again there is no answer: WHOM of the leaders of any country in the world had so many spies / bandits in their relatives, eh? Is this the norm, according to yours?
                        Quote: Unknown
                        And I'm talking about the USSR.

                        Only RUSSIA has been for a THOUSAND years and there is talk about it.

                        And what did you do with her, forget ?! WHERE IS RUSSIAN Odessa, Nikolaev, Petropavlovsk, Verny and thousands of other RUSSIAN cities and villages created by RUSSIANS and RUSSIA ?!

                        WHO gave you, anti-Russians, the right to destroy Russia and the Russians there ?! Criminals ...
                      11. Unknown
                        Unknown 6 September 2021 12: 43
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Zinoviev - no

                        Why, Zinoviev was spanked and deservedly so. But VK Konstantin Konstantinovich was, I will call it a fashionable word, gay, and he did not hide it. The next on the list was Sergei Aleksandrovich, the cockerel was active. There is an anecdote of those times "Moscow stood until now on seven hills, and now it must stand on one hillock." Bougr'e can be translated from French as "a man with unnatural inclinations. Matilda, as the Tsar and VK generally passed from hand to hand, apparently enjoyed success with the Holstein-Gottorp family. As someone said, what an abomination."
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        they are rehabilitated EVERYTHING, dunno. Therefore, YOU put documents on the table if you accuse (it is not clear what, by the way)

                        And yes, Alexander and Maria Svanidze (a spy singer, right?) Are not only relatives, but Stalin's closest FRIENDS for TEN years: they lived nearby, constantly went to visit, feasted, Drank, sang together and slept with each other. Got it, didn't it?

                        And Enkizde, Stalin's friend, for FORTY years, what have you forgotten?

                        The best lawyer for all of the above and not to find, as an ardent anti-adviser. Who would have thought. Khrushchev rehabilitated everyone en masse, and there will be enough water in a mortar to crush. Documents, letters of repentance, everything is available, read what's the matter then? Or does the exalted head work in one direction? It's sad because, forever.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Only RUSSIA has been for a THOUSAND years and there is talk about it.

                        And what did you do with her, forget ?! WHERE IS RUSSIAN Odessa, Nikolaev, Petropavlovsk, Verny and thousands of other RUSSIAN cities and villages created by RUSSIANS and RUSSIA ?!

                        WHO gave you, anti-Russians, the right to destroy Russia and the Russians there ?! Criminals ..

                        Just in the subject. We got up from the cozy Chisinau, and in the DPR or Donbass, the knowledge of a former officer of the USSR Armed Forces will be useful there, they are looking forward to it. There you will preach your ideas if you want. But most likely there is no such desire, after all, the Moldovans.
                      12. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 7 September 2021 10: 32
                        -1
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Konstantin Konstantinovich

                        he has 9 (nine) children, unlike the connections of the ichi with the Apfelbaums, they did not tie anything lol
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Matilda, so generally the tsar and VK passed from hand to hand

                        the greatest talented worker, a wonderful wife and mother, thanks to her work and talent, she survived and raised her family in emigration, although she was completely organized by the Bolsheviks
                        Quote: Unknown
                        The best lawyer for all of the above and not to find, as an ardent anti-adviser. Who would have thought. Khrushchev rehabilitated everyone en masse, and there will be enough water in a mortar to crush.

                        it's coming relatives and friends Stalin and destroyed.

                        FOR THE FOURTH TIME I ask, is it normal and where else was it? What, there is nothing to answer, ashamed?

                        Rehabilitated them the USSR-was it?
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Documents, letters of repentance, everything is available, read what's the matter then?

                        so ON THE DESK of them, loving lies!
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Just the topic.

                        I'm in the subject, but you play with your head, you have nothing to answer to this:

                        Only RUSSIA has been for a THOUSAND years and there is talk about it.

                        And what did you do with her, forget ?! WHERE IS RUSSIAN Odessa, Nikolaev, Petropavlovsk, Verny and thousands of other RUSSIAN cities and villages created by RUSSIANS and RUSSIA ?!

                        WHO gave you, anti-Russians, the right to destroy Russia and the Russians there ?! Criminals.

                        Shame ...
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Have risen

                        you climbed on, yes: the country of softs has long been trash, and you can't give up all your habits, "messengers", ugh.
                      13. Unknown
                        Unknown 7 September 2021 14: 01
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        he has 9 (nine) children, unlike the connections of the ichi with the Apfelbaums, they did not tie anything

                        Of course, as they would now call it, a bisexual, ahead of his time. Apfelbaum did not give it, so good, now they would join the mourners for the innocent ruined. Ilyich did not give children, so the will of the Almighty for everything, but gave I.V. Stalin. There is such a thing.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        the greatest talented worker, a wonderful wife and mother, thanks to her work and talent, she survived and raised her family in emigration, although she was completely organized by the Bolsheviks

                        That's right to the point, he was a noble worker. After Nikolashka, at first the middle-aged Grand Duke Vladimir Alexandrovich, then Sergei Mikhailovich, who was replaced by a younger one, Andrei Vladimirovich, and settled down on a young dancer, Peter Vladimirov. She was a good woman. And what is interesting, the tsars and VK preferred ballerinas
                        The current government is gymnasts
                        Continuity, what can I say
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        these are the closest relatives and FRIENDS of Stalin, and destroyed.

                        FOR THE FOURTH TIME I ask, is it normal and where else was it? What, there is nothing to answer, ashamed?

                        Did the USSR rehabilitate them?

                        For the fourth time I am not answering a Russian normally! This is now the relatives otmazyvayut, so in the country is a mess. The USSR was also different, Khrushchev, and there was Stalin as well Brezhnev. Doesn't get it?
                        Quote: Olgovich

                        I'm in the subject, but you play with your head, you have nothing to answer to this:

                        Only RUSSIA has been for a THOUSAND years and there is talk about it.

                        And what did you do with her, forget ?! WHERE IS RUSSIAN Odessa, Nikolaev, Petropavlovsk, Verny and thousands of other RUSSIAN cities and villages created by RUSSIANS and RUSSIA ?!

                        WHO gave you, anti-Russians, the right to destroy Russia and the Russians there ?! Criminals.

                        Shame ...

                        And I am on the subject, why did not the PMR go, and also to the Donbass to defend the rights of Russians? The knowledge of a builder officer, oh, how needed there. No, we didn’t go, but you’re sweeping your tongue like a broomstick, which you don’t know about.
                      14. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 7 September 2021 18: 51
                        -2
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Ilyich did not give children, so everything is the will of the Almighty, but I.V. gave.

                        what did you give? Suicidal, nymphomaniac / psychotic / traitorous, alcoholic thief?
                        Quote: Unknown
                        That's right to the point, he was a noble worker.

                        and that's exactly how - read her biography - talent, hard worker, wonderful wife and mother
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Continuity, what can I say

                        there is nothing you can say, except gossip, like an old survivor of a grandmother.

                        But your pedophiles and rapists Enukidze, Kalinin, etc., etc. is a fact
                        Quote: Unknown
                        For the fourth time I am not answering a Russian normally!

                        normal is when this happens EVERYWHERE. But this has never happened ANYWHERE, so that almost ALL of the closest relatives and friends turned out to be spies and saboteurs-paranoia to help.

                        Not a single person, anyone, anywhere has such a thing.

                        dawned not? No.
                        Quote: Unknown
                        The USSR was also different, Khrushchevsky, and there was Stalin's as well as Brezhnevsky

                        you yourself poke around in the varieties of this, and normal people disdain.
                        Quote: Unknown
                        And I'm in the subject, why didn't we go

                        it's none of your business, your business is to rise to what is indicated to you, yes.
                      15. Unknown
                        Unknown 7 September 2021 20: 40
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        what did you give? Suicidal, nymphomaniac / psychotic / traitorous, alcoholic thief?

                        Normal children, liberoid inventions read a lot, flawed. Svetka let her down, that's why she and Svetka, what to do. Jacob has children, Vasily too. Life goes on
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        and that's exactly how - read her biography - talent, hard worker, wonderful wife and mother

                        She is a good worker, especially the front end. But this is only a plus. Such a type is loved by the exalted, they are simply mellow. With any "God forgive me" they will make an icon and drag themselves in front of it.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        there is nothing you can say, except gossip, like an old survivor of a grandmother.

                        But your pedophiles and rapists Enukidze, Kalinin, etc., etc. is a fact

                        As for gossip, whoever speaks. Before that, they were actively defended with foam, with their heads in order?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        normal is when this happens EVERYWHERE. But this has never happened ANYWHERE, so that almost ALL of the closest relatives and friends turned out to be spies and saboteurs-paranoia to help.

                        Not a single person, anyone, anywhere has such a thing.

                        dawned not?

                        Study the French Revolution, and do not be ecstatic in front of the Holstein-Gottorp camarilla.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        you yourself poke around in the varieties of this, and normal people disdain.

                        Why so squeamish, did they study in the educational institutions of the USSR? Why didn't they disdain? Literate became a lot, and you can spit in the palm with which he pecked. A common feature of all liberoids.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        it's none of your business, your business is to rise to what is indicated to you, yes.

                        Maybe not mine, then sit in one place exactly, and do not blather unnecessarily.
                      16. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 8 September 2021 10: 01
                        -1
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Normal children, liberoid inventions read a lot, flawed.

                        FACTS, ignorant, just facts. And the children of thieves, traitors to the Motherland and suicides do not in any way cancel their actions.
                        Quote: Unknown
                        She is a good worker, especially the front end.

                        alliluyeva-even as, yes, she "worked" with this since school, and even incest "became famous, yes. They are glorious, yes.
                        Quote: Unknown
                        .Yenukidze and his hedgehog received, according to their deeds, there is a way for them.

                        Aaaa, we saw through ... 40 years of friendship, after the transformation of the Central Executive Committee and the Bolshoi Theater into a nativity scene. ... By the way, the all-union headman, Voroshilov, etc., and so on, were frolicking there, and - nothing
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Study the French Revolution,

                        on the table FACTS, a lover of lies: nowhere ever like that.
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Why so squeamish, did they study in the educational institutions of the USSR? Why didn't they disdain? Literate became a lot, and you can spit in the palm with which he pecked. A common feature of all liberoids.

                        I studied in educational institutions that existed long before the thieves and would be much better without them.
                        As, however, the WHOLE world did without them and continues to do so.

                        And the varieties of your a poke around, picky
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Maybe not mine, then sit in one place exactly, and do not blather unnecessarily.

                        definitely not yours and you are nobody to even stutter on this topic.
                        And about the tips, see above, when will it come?
                      17. Unknown
                        Unknown 8 September 2021 12: 16
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        FACTS, ignorant, just facts. And the children of thieves, traitors to the Motherland and suicides do not in any way cancel their actions.

                        Such facts, liberoids in a day compose ten, which remain in the inflamed brain, affectively exalted personalities.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        alliluyeva-even as, yes, she "worked" with this since school, and even incest "became famous, yes. They are glorious, yes.

                        Of course, they sat next to the desk, held a candle at night.
                        Quote: Olgovich

                        Aaaa, we saw through ... 40 years of friendship, after the transformation of the Central Executive Committee and the Bolshoi Theater into a nativity scene. ... By the way, the all-union headman, Voroshilov, etc., and so on, were frolicking there, and - nothing

                        Are you defending again? This is age-related, signs of senile insanity. Well, the years take their toll.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        on the table FACTS, a lover of lies: nowhere ever like that.

                        I didn’t want to, I’ll have to poke my nose at the old man. ”On September 17, 1793, the“ Law on Suspicious ”was adopted. Now they could be arrested not only for real actions, but simply on suspicion of counterrevolutionary activity. Interviewing witnesses and the right to a lawyer were canceled. and consequences ".
                        Quote: Olgovich

                        I studied in educational institutions that existed long before the thieves and would be much better without them.
                        As, however, the WHOLE world did without them and continues to do so.

                        And the varieties of your a poke around, picky

                        Are you a long-liver? How long before what thieves? Along the way, you fall into childhood. No need to overexcite, however, age.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        definitely not yours and you are nobody to even stutter on this topic.
                        And about the tips, see above, when will it come?

                        Do not take it to heart, age is all the same, you need to beware with such a set of complexes, in old age then.
                      18. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 8 September 2021 12: 46
                        -2
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Such facts, liberoids compose ten a day, which remain in the inflamed brain, affective-exalted personalities

                        read the memoirs of traitors, read sentences to thieves and testimony of witnesses, ignoramus.

                        NOBODY has refuted yet, in contrast to the paranoid "sentences" to "spies", which only the sick and still believe
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Of course, they sat next to the desk, held a candle at night.

                        Yes, read it yourself, you ignorant.
                        Quote: Unknown
                        I didn’t want to, I’ll have to poke my nose at the old man. ”On September 17, 1793, the“ Law on Suspicious ”was adopted. Now they could be arrested not only for real actions, but simply on suspicion of counterrevolutionary activity. Interviewing witnesses and the right to a lawyer were canceled. and consequences "

                        it took a long time to pick out ...18 CENTURY... And he is bustling as an example ... to the 20th century fool
                        And again, WHERE was there so many and SUCH relatives of Robespierre killed? Danton? what ? Again obls? lol
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Are you a long-liver? How long before what thieves?

                        before your thieves, these educational institutions existed, built in RUSSIA
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Don't take it personally, age is still

                        think better of your soul, yes.
                      19. Unknown
                        Unknown 8 September 2021 18: 24
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        read the memoirs of traitors, read sentences to thieves and testimony of witnesses, ignoramus.

                        NOBODY has refuted yet, in contrast to the paranoid "sentences" to "spies", which only the sick and still believe

                        Why shouldn't I believe the sentences? You live in the world of pink ponies, in your life you have never stacked with punitive authorities. It is worth getting in, they start talking there right away, without pressure and pressure. Only later on at large, after a lapse of time, they say that they did not say that, they were terribly beaten and needles were driven under their nails, and they are not to blame for anything. You only have to believe in the sentences.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Yes, read it yourself, you ignorant.

                        So read and Matilda is exalted.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        it took a long time to pick out ... 18 CENTURY. And he is bustling as an example ... to the 20th century
                        And again, WHERE was there so many and SUCH relatives of Robespierre killed? Danton? what ? Again obls?

                        So, thanks to the Holstein-Gottorp skys, Russia was 150 years behind. Brother Maximilien, Augustin was executed with him. The sister denied and even to please their killers confirms that her older brother “was a dictator and was preparing a monstrous conspiracy.” But what is there to list.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        before your thieves, these educational institutions existed, built in RUSSIA

                        No need to fall into childhood, then 104 years have passed since the VOR. ?!
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        think better of your soul, yeah

                        Yes, a sinful soul is, and who is not sinless? "Who among you is without sin, be the first to throw a stone at her"
                      20. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 9 September 2021 08: 15
                        0
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Why shouldn't I believe the sentences?


                        the absence of a brain makes it possible to believe that the so-called MORTALS can be just. "sentences" passed for ... 10-15 minutes (troui) fool , without a lawyer, a judicial investigation, without the presence of the accused and who have become in ... SEVEN HUNDRED times more- okay, no?

                        You yourself will go to the top three, you hypocrite who loves a lie?
                        Quote: Unknown
                        So read and Matilda is exalted.

                        a beautiful woman, you have already been told: your Alliluyevs are before her, as they are before Moscow.
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Brother Maximilien, Augustin was executed with him. The sister denied and even to please their killers confirms that her older brother “was a dictator and was preparing a monstrous conspiracy.” But what is there to list.

                        and you can’t list anything, because THAT was never and nowhere, hack to death on your forehead, and even in a PEACEFUL, NORMAL time.
                        Quote: Unknown
                        No need to fall into childhood, then 104 years have passed since the VOR. ?!

                        fool these at the institution were built and taught LONG until the thief-when will he be finished ?! fool
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Yes, a sinful soul is, and who is not sinless? "Who among you is without sin, be the first to throw a stone at her"

                        so think about her, and do not justify grave monstrous crimes, taking more sins
                      21. Unknown
                        Unknown 10 September 2021 03: 40
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        the absence of a brain allows one to believe that there can be just MORTALS of the so-called. "sentences" handed down for ... 10-15 minutes (troui), without a lawyer, a trial, without the presence of the accused, and which became in .... SEVEN HUNDRED times more in a year, didn’t it?

                        You yourself will go to the top three, you hypocrite who loves a lie?

                        If there is one gyrus in the head, and that is in the form of a circle, then it is impossible to say reasonable in principle. You can only repeat, like a parrot, that when you wanted to hear. This is the sin of young blondes, and old people who have fallen into insanity. You can laugh at the first, then the second are regrettable, but what to take from the senile.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        and you can’t list anything, because THAT was never and nowhere, hack to death on your forehead, and even in a PEACEFUL, NORMAL time.

                        A simple thing does not reach an exalted senile, with one convolution, all revolutions are the same.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        a beautiful woman, you have already been told: your Alliluyevs are before her, as they are before Moscow.

                        "To whom and the mare's bride" is what the janitor Tikhon used to say, from the famous novel.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        these at the institution were built and taught LONG until the thief-when will he be finished ?!

                        It’s not about when the buildings are built.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        I studied in educational institutions that existed long before the thieves and would be much better without them.
                        As, however, the WHOLE world did without them and continues to do so.

                        It can be understood that the knowledge received in R.I. Yes, on the face of insanity.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        so think about her, and do not justify grave monstrous crimes, taking more sins

                        The time will come for us to repent, we will not take strangers, we have enough of our own.
                      22. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 10 September 2021 11: 48
                        -1
                        Quote: Unknown
                        If there is one gyrus in the head, and that is in the form of a circle, then it is impossible to say reasonable in principle. You can only repeat, like a parrot, that when you wanted to hear. This is the sin of young blondes, and old people who have fallen into insanity. The former can be laughed at, the latter are regrettable, but what to take with a senile.

                        yes, you won't take anything from you.
                        And the last gyrus was clearly not in my head.

                        PAVLOV's help hurts the eyes of ignoramuses.

                        Will you go for the top three, you deceitful and hypocritical? Or shout "Lawyer to me, defense! The trial is in my presence! Appeal (1,2,3) to me!" Why so quiet? Still would..

                        How brave and harsh you are - at someone else's expense, ugh, what an abomination ...
                        Quote: Unknown
                        "To whom and the mare's bride" is what the janitor Tikhon used to say, from the famous novel.

                        yes, your allys, galina b and bl kollantai were like that
                        Quote: Unknown
                        It’s not about when the buildings are built.

                        not buildings, but educational institutions, to the level of which yours, as to Moscow akom.
                        Quote: Unknown
                        It can be understood that knowledge was obtained in R.I.

                        with one non-head gyrus and understand, yes
                        Quote: Unknown
                        The time will come for us to repent, we will not take strangers, we have enough of our own.

                        justification of the gravest sins against the Russian people is a grave sin.
                      23. Unknown
                        Unknown 12 September 2021 04: 13
                        +1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        yes, you won't take anything from you.
                        And the last gyrus was clearly not in my head.

                        PAVLOV's help hurts the eyes of ignoramuses.

                        Will you go for the top three, you deceitful and hypocritical? Or shout "Lawyer to me, defense! The trial is in my presence! Appeal (1,2,3) to me!" Why so quiet? Still would..

                        How brave and harsh you are - at someone else's expense, ugh, what an abomination ...

                        Again the thoughts of the senile ran in a circle. A clear sign of Palilalia. That's all from such fake righteous, and all the trouble. .Life do not know, but are very strong in hindsight. Courage overflows. And if from their pink little world they get into reality, zilch and blown away.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        yes, your allys, galina b and bl kollantai were like that

                        Like Militsa and Anastasia, who married the grandchildren of Emperor Nicholas I, becoming Grand Duchesses of the Romanov Imperial House. There were also those, God forgive me.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        not buildings, but educational institutions, to the level of which yours, as to Moscow akom.

                        And what did you learn? Exalted.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        with one non-head gyrus and understand, yes

                        It is difficult to understand senile people at all.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        justification of the gravest sins against the Russian people is a grave sin.

                        But it is not necessary to refer to all the people.
                      24. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 12 September 2021 08: 53
                        -2
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Again the thoughts of the senile ran in a circle. A clear sign of Palilalia.

                        And why should I know how and with what signs do you have .. thoughts run ?: fool

                        To a simple question:
                        You will go to the top three, are you our deceitful and hypocritical? Or shout "Lawyer to me, defense! The trial is in my presence! Appeal (1,2,3) to me!" Why so quiet? Still would..

                        do not want to answer? Can not?

                        Here it is. How brave and harsh you are, at someone else's expense, fu, what an abomination.
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Too

                        The supreme body of the "nogodny" power - the Central Executive Committee of the USSR -, let me remind you, in the hardest hungry and labor years for the people, was turned into a "nest of decay of morality, customs and life" lust high-ranking officials
                        Quote: Unknown
                        And what did you learn? Exalted.

                        nerus cannot even speak in Russian
                        Quote: Unknown
                        It is difficult to understand senile people at all.

                        do not understand you, yes
                        Quote: Unknown
                        But it is not necessary to refer to all the people.

                        again
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Marasmatik

                        did not understand, then again: justification of the gravest sins against the Russian people is a grave sin - hack it on your forehead
                      25. Unknown
                        Unknown 12 September 2021 18: 02
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        And why should I know how and with what signs you have .. thoughts run?

                        Beguiled, they don't run with me, on the contrary, with the exalted ones.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        To a simple question:

                        I'll clarify, to an idiotic question.
                        Quote: Olgovich

                        do not want to answer? Can not?

                        Here it is. How brave and harsh you are, at someone else's expense, fu, what an abomination.

                        Why get into the top three? He was engaged in sabotage, banditry, stealing people's goods, setting fire to collective farm property. There is no need to do this and there will be no triplets. If only some exalted denunciation writes, it will be done with it.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        nerus cannot even speak in Russian

                        Doesn't get it? You can repeat, disgusting spitting in the hand that fed you.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        did not understand, then again: justification of the gravest sins against the Russian people is a grave sin - hack it on your forehead

                        You don't need to speak for everyone, and even with pathos. There are seven sins, you don't need to invent others. You talk like a woodpecker in the forest. Forest, silence and fat fat. Woodpecker knocks in one place, but at least with benefit, you are one and the same, with Moldovan obstinacy. I'm tired of it.
                      26. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 13 September 2021 08: 35
                        -1
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Beguiled, they are not running with me,

                        the marasmates run, that is, they did not confuse
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Why get into the top three? He was engaged in sabotage, banditry, stealing people's goods, setting fire to collective farm property. There is no need to do this and there will be no triplets. If only some exalted denunciation writes, it will be done with it.

                        what to get for? Yes, NOT FOR ANYTHING! How almost everyone got there. WHO established "sabotage", "arson" of a particular person - what kind of expertise, judicial investigation, appeal and defense? fool
                        Yes, nobody and nothing! As G.K. Zhukov said correctly, they staged a massacre of people according to a plan lowered from above.

                        Denunciation, as the basis for the murder of a MAN, only became possible with you, in normal Russia there was a JURY COURT and lenient punishments for even outright blank bandits and other enukidze

                        There is no answer AGAIN: Will you go for the top three, you deceitful and hypocritical? Or shout "Lawyer to me, defense! Inquest in my presence! Appeal (1,2,3) to me! "What, we are silent? Of course ..

                        do not want to answer? Can not?

                        Here it is. How brave and harsh you are, at someone else's expense, fu, what an abomination.
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Doesn't get it? You can repeat, disgusting spitting in the hand that fed you.

                        fool this raking blunt hand was fed by I and MY parents.

                        Quote: Unknown
                        You don't need to speak for everyone, and even with pathos. There are seven sins, you don't need to invent others. You talk like a woodpecker in the forest. Forest, silence and fat fat. Woodpecker knocks in one place, but at least with benefit, you are one and the same, with Moldovan obstinacy. I'm tired of it.

                        so free (Russia is now a free country, not like with you), yes, no one is holding. lol
      3. alystan
        alystan 27 November 2021 13: 21
        0
        I agree with you on all points, but it was Khrushchev who somehow “forced” all (or almost all) “faithful” Stalinists to dance to his tune !? It was in this sense that he overlooked "his Brutus"!
    3. Keer
      Keer 2 September 2021 01: 21
      +1
      Eh, Iosif Vissarionovich did not see Khrushchev's nature, did not see it.
      With a squint, Leninist, he looked, apparently, and without glasses.
    4. Pravodel
      Pravodel 24 October 2021 12: 30
      +1
      The article was to be called not "... how Moscow destroyed pro-Soviet forces in Europe with its own hands," but "What and how did NS Khrushchev to destroy the communist movement in the world and create conditions for the collapse of the USSR." Then it would be an extremely interesting article and from it it would be possible to pave a path towards the liquidation of the Communist Party of England and not only ... And so - information for thought, no more ..
      The history of Russia has yet to assess the activities of such figures as Khrushchev and Gorbachev. Will we wait for the trial of the destroyers, destroyers of the USSR.? !!! ..
    5. zenion
      zenion 19 November 2021 17: 49
      0
      Vladimir_2U. Why did capitalism need the support of the entire planet? Couldn't we have done it ourselves? The United States also failed to buy its friends, mainly among the countries of banditry.
    6. Ivan90
      Ivan90 28 November 2021 12: 20
      -1
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Eh, Iosif Vissarionovich did not see Khrushchev's nature, did not see it.

      The younger the person, the worse his life was under Khrushchev.
  2. tatra
    tatra 1 September 2021 04: 22
    +2
    The Soviet communists created a whole socialist system in the world, and they had a bunch of "friendly regimes", and the enemies of the communists who seized the RSFSR under Yeltsin put Russia under the anti-Soviet-Russophobic West, and under Putin they had "enemies all around." They are people of too low quality to be capable of understanding what geopolitics and areas of interest are.
    1. Pessimist22
      Pessimist22 1 September 2021 05: 34
      +6
      You have it all the time, like in a joke about a goldfish:
      -I want to have everything!
      -You had everything ....
    2. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 1 September 2021 05: 42
      +3
      Again the enemies of the communists belay.. where you will not spit everywhere enemies of the communists.
      One might think that children in all countries are immediately born as enemies of the communists. what
      1. tatra
        tatra 1 September 2021 05: 54
        -4
        I almost stopped looking at the answers to me, because the enemies of the communists are primitive, predictable and the same as a blueprint, and their answers to me - about whatever I write, including about them - will always be stupid malice against me and the communists.
        1. Lech from Android.
          Lech from Android. 1 September 2021 05: 58
          0
          They looked at my answer. smile
          Nothing like Tatra, do not fantasize ... I do not feel any anger or hatred towards the communists ... rather curiosity ... what whether they will be able to fit in with their dogmas in the modern world. smileOr they will try again to remake it for themselves ... one attempt has already been ... although the Chinese communists succeeded.
          1. Mar.Tirah
            Mar.Tirah 1 September 2021 06: 22
            +1
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            I do not feel any anger or hatred towards the communists ... rather curiosity ...

            Unlike you, I have always felt respect and trepidation for real communists. But this is for REAL communists. To my pride I still met. Those post-war. beat and gave out to neighbors with many children, including my parents. And then he sat in our kitchen drinking moonshine and cried not expecting this from his wife. At that time she was sitting in our bedroom in the wardrobe. The front-line soldiers always cried when they got drunk. And not those who, taking advantage of the benefits and privileges for the members of the CPSU, at the very first accusations of all imaginable and inconceivable crimes against humanity, immediately burned their party membership card. Alas, I also saw and even had respect before this act. I made one conclusion from all this. , people as herd creatures, having chosen an idol for themselves, try in every possible way to present it as truth, humiliating and trampling on their former ideal recognized by a criminal by a majority of votes, even if suchthe accusation is doubtful and in some places it is false. The main thing is that under the new leader he would have a good and comfortable life.
            1. Lech from Android.
              Lech from Android. 1 September 2021 06: 29
              +3
              I also saw different communists ... communicated with one order bearer ... rewind mate ... through the word swearing ... was shocked of course.
              In the 90s, I was lucky to work with an ordinary communist ... I think he was just a convinced comrade ... despite all the shit in the country, he believed in communism no matter what ... imbued with respect for his purely human qualities ... never said nasty things to a person or did nasty things.
              hi
              1. Mar.Tirah
                Mar.Tirah 1 September 2021 06: 40
                +3
                Quote: Lech from Android.
                I also saw different communists ...

                I myself was candidates for members of the CPSU, I still remember Lenin's theses, after the state of emergency they were not accepted. I knew and talked with almost all the secretaries of the district committee. There were best men at the wedding of the daughter of the first, at one time I helped a young family in life. And never the first in friendship. during the parties did not mention politics, although there was already a fermentation. So I know this system from the inside. At work they are alone, and at home they are different. This ruined them, fled immediately taking what they could. But they could do everything, they still live So the British are just the tip of the defeat of the communist idea.
                1. Lech from Android.
                  Lech from Android. 1 September 2021 06: 45
                  +9
                  Duplicity is a nasty thing, you say one thing, you think another, you do the third.
                  When there appeared in the USSR special dining rooms, special shops, special clinics for selected communists, then the disintegration of the Communist Party began, and in the minds of citizens ... there should not be any special and chosen ones ... this destroys any system.
                  1. Mikhail Ya2
                    Mikhail Ya2 4 September 2021 07: 49
                    0
                    This division began immediately after the revolution. Reinforced rations began to be distributed in 1918
            2. Ashes of Claes
              Ashes of Claes 1 September 2021 10: 43
              +6
              Quote: Mar. Tira
              that his wife, being the head of the department store, brought home a scarce product. He beat her

              Interestingly, and by whose efforts did the Soviet phenomenon of "deficit" arise? "Servants of the people" ate from special distributors, and the people "threw" something on the counter and allowed them to giggle at Raikin's miniatures? Is the trade mafia to blame? This, you know, sounds like the proverbial claim that mice are born in a basket of dirty laundry. Or what - dogma is separate, and everyday life is separate?
              1. Kwas
                Kwas 1 September 2021 18: 13
                +3
                Quote: Ashes of Klaas

                Interestingly, and by whose efforts did the Soviet phenomenon of "deficit" arise?

                Through the efforts of Khrushch, who destroyed the industrial cooperation, ruined and banned private traders, liquidated the MTS, nullified the State Planning Committee, and so on ...
                1. Mikhail Ya2
                  Mikhail Ya2 4 September 2021 07: 50
                  0
                  He was the General Secretary of the CPSU. So by the hands of the Communist Party
                  1. Kwas
                    Kwas 5 September 2021 17: 53
                    0
                    Do not shift the arrows from personal responsibility to collective responsibility. But if you like, yes, Khrushchev did it, together with a gang of accomplices, the hands of the CPSU and through the mechanism of the CPSU!
            3. Mikhail Ya2
              Mikhail Ya2 4 September 2021 07: 47
              +1
              Human qualities do not depend on party affiliation. He was not like that because he had a party card.
          2. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 1 September 2021 07: 05
            +8
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            do they know how to fit with their dogmas in the modern world.

            Without the communists, there would be no such "modern world" that you are talking about. The communists gave a tremendous impulse to the development of mankind, and if the world did not follow the communist path of development, then this is its misfortune, but the world will come to this anyway, dialectics is not going anywhere. gone.
            1. Lech from Android.
              Lech from Android. 1 September 2021 07: 17
              -2
              I do not argue ... but all the same, all ideas should be based on the commandments not to harm your neighbor.
              1. Sling cutter
                Sling cutter 1 September 2021 07: 32
                +7
                Quote: Lech from Android.
                I do not argue ... but all the same, all ideas should be based on the commandments not to harm your neighbor.

                But does the communist doctrine deny this? Or would you argue with the fact that in the USSR the development of Man as a person was put at the forefront?
                I will not stop arguing that theorists in the construction of socialism in Russia did not take into account one very important thing, namely the age-old, imbued with genes, servility, although Lenin pointed to the peasantry as a petty-bourgeois class.
                They tried to defeat slavery, but unfortunately it did not work out.
                1. Lech from Android.
                  Lech from Android. 1 September 2021 08: 12
                  +1
                  That's right ... I listened to the famous Leonid Ilyich and the Communist Party on a regular basis ... that's where servitude is in every crack.
                  1. Sling cutter
                    Sling cutter 1 September 2021 08: 21
                    +9
                    Quote: Lech from Android.
                    that's where servility is in all the cracks pearl.

                    There is no such slave who does not dream of becoming a master and there is no worse master than a former slave!
                    By the way, Leonid Ilyich is all flowers, but what we have now ...
                2. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 1 September 2021 09: 16
                  -12
                  Quote: Stroporez
                  Or would you argue with the fact that in the USSR the development of Man as a person was put at the forefront?

                  a person does not develop as a person, under conditions of prohibitions on EVERYTHING inherent in a person freedom and in conditions of total endless LIE.

                  So they raised generations of submissive, naive, not understanding infantiles, obediently listening to any talking head (Labeled, EBN, Khrushchev, etc.), frozen at the "Slave Izaura" and kissing the screen with Chumak, trying to cure hemorrhoids.
                  Quote: Stroporez
                  I will not stop arguing that theorists in the construction of socialism in Russia did not take into account one very important thing, namely the age-old, absorbed into the genes, servility.

                  yeah, you got the wrong Russian people, of course.

                  Let me remind you that not slaves, but only FREE people could organize, conduct and choose for themselves power in the world's first popular equal elections (in US), and then fiercely fight for your choice for 4 years and then, for decades.

                  But the then-grown "non-workers" obediently yelled "Glory to the Yagoda!", "Death to the Yagoda!" watched as in 1991 everything collapsed completely.

                  And yes, the petty-bourgeois "slaves" built thousand-year-old Great Russia, and the "non-workers" brought her to the borders of the 17th century and extinction in just seventy years of continuous "successes"
                  1. Sling cutter
                    Sling cutter 1 September 2021 09: 27
                    +9
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    And yes, petty-bourgeois "slaves" built a thousand-year-old Great Russia, and the "non-workers" led her to the borders of the 17th century and extinction in just seventy years of continuous "successes"

                    Well, you know that it makes no sense for us to prove anything Yes
                    Do you think that the Romanov era is progress, only forget that after Peter the Russian Romanovs were foreigners and non-believers, and serfs were an ordinary commodity, on a par with horses and cows, and they cost less.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 1 September 2021 09: 45
                      -14
                      Quote: Stroporez
                      Well, you know that it makes no sense for us to prove anything

                      it is yes! Yes
                      Quote: Stroporez
                      Do you think that the Romanov era is progress

                      certainly, we look out the window.
                      Quote: Stroporez
                      Russian Romanovs were foreigners and infidels

                      yes even aliens, if the people and the country grow
                      Quote: Stroporez
                      and serfs were an ordinary commodity, on a par with horses and cows, and were cheaper.

                      many millions who were exiled to hard labor and who died of hunger during the years of the "turning point" would gladly choose a serf share (paradise compared to that)
            2. Citizen simple (almost)
              Citizen simple (almost) 1 September 2021 22: 15
              +2
              Quote: Stroporez
              The communists gave a tremendous impetus to the development of mankind, and if the world did not follow the communist path of development, then this is its misfortune, but the world will come to this anyway, the dialectic has not gone anywhere.

              First, the whole main "impulse" was given by socialists of various stripes - and not by communists. These "pseudo-communists" with their extremely dubious methods have made the word "communism" almost abusive, as well as even the word "socialism". It is difficult to think of the worst harm to the general movement.

              Secondly - yes, the most developed countries are now gradually rather actively socializing, exactly according to the brilliant Marx. But will this be hypothetical "socialism"? And will utopian "communism" follow after it? Or will there be something completely different altogether? We do not know. And nobody knows.

              Let me just remind you that all modern so-called "communists" are deeply ideologized (almost at the level of sectarianism) political movements of the last century that tried to implement theoretical Marx's calculations about the distant future - but to realize "right here and now", often by violent methods, in unprepared societies. That's why everyone lost. In general, everyone, without exception.
              1. Sling cutter
                Sling cutter 1 September 2021 22: 32
                +1
                Quote: Citizen is simple (almost)
                but to realize "right here and now", often by violent methods, in unprepared societies. That's why everyone lost. In general, everyone, without exception.

                Colleague, I'll tell you this, after -30 years of democratization, if our society is offered the Soviet system from tomorrow, then 95% will be FOR!
                1. Citizen simple (almost)
                  Citizen simple (almost) 1 September 2021 22: 55
                  0
                  Quote: Stroporez
                  Colleague, I'll tell you this, after -30 years of democratization, if our society is offered the Soviet system from tomorrow, then 95% will be FOR!

                  Colleague, this is exactly what scares you - the fact that many will agree to this option. But it will turn out again on the old rake - "yes-yes-yes-yes we want today, yes-yes-yes-yes we want now!"like in that song. And again we will stumble on the same ...
                  Well, let's just conditionally assume that right tomorrow the "Soviet system" will again (which was in full contradiction with Marx, let me remind you). What will it lead to? Yes, again, to nothing.

                  Developed capitalism first - only then transition to the next formation. Otherwise, there is no way. It was not me who said it, it was Marx.
                  First, at least developed ("reasonable") capitalism must be built, at least without all this thieves (with one eye ostentatiously pouring crocodile tears over the "lost country" "beloved country") ...
                  1. Sling cutter
                    Sling cutter 1 September 2021 23: 09
                    +2
                    Quote: Citizen is simple (almost)
                    First, at least developed ("reasonable") capitalism must be built, at least without all this thieves (with one eye ostentatiously pouring crocodile tears over the "lost country" "beloved country") ...

                    I understand that it is not about dogmas and some stages must be passed, but the most important thing is that many already understand that it is impossible to live like this.
                    1. Citizen simple (almost)
                      Citizen simple (almost) 1 September 2021 23: 27
                      0
                      Oh, if really "many", your lips, as they say ...

                      I didn’t give up, no. But every year there is more and more the feeling that this whole chaos suits more and more many. In general, almost complete apathy - according to the principle "let them do what they want, as long as they don't touch me." A bad sign, very, very bad ...
          3. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 1 September 2021 15: 48
            +4
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            They looked at my answer. smile
            Nothing like Tatra, do not fantasize ... I do not feel any anger or hatred towards the communists ... rather curiosity ... what whether they will be able to fit in with their dogmas in the modern world. smileOr they will try again to remake it for themselves ... one attempt has already been ... although the Chinese communists succeeded.

            The Chinese are building a Singaporean model, an analogue of Lee Kwang Yew - the CCP.
          4. ivan2022
            ivan2022 2 September 2021 05: 00
            0
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            They looked at my answer. smile
            Nothing like Tatra, do not fantasize ... I do not feel any anger or hatred towards the communists ... rather curiosity ... what whether they will be able to fit in with their dogmas in the modern world. smileOr they will try again to remake it for themselves ... one attempt has already been ... although the Chinese communists succeeded.


            Communism is a labor movement, one of its types. But if there is no labor movement in society,

            and the only popular movement is called "OPG-AUE", then I, too, look with great curiosity, what "will happen with. Rodina and with us?"
            As the saying goes: "I feel sorry for the children, but not for you. Only one thing will correct you"
    3. Doctor
      Doctor 1 September 2021 11: 55
      +2
      The Soviet communists created a whole socialist system in the world, and they had a bunch of "friendly regimes", and the enemies of the communists who seized the RSFSR under Yeltsin put Russia under the anti-Soviet-Russophobic West, and under Putin they had "enemies all around." They are people of too low quality to be capable of understanding what geopolitics and areas of interest are.

      Don't confuse communists and social democrats.

      Lenin created a party called the RSDLP.

      So he wrote:

      So, get to work, comrades! Let's not waste precious time! Russian Social Democrats have a lot to do to satisfy the demands of the awakening proletariat, to organize the labor movement, to strengthen revolutionary groups and their mutual ties, to supply workers with propaganda and agitation literature, to unite the workers' circles and social democratic groups scattered throughout Russia into united social democratic workers' party!

      And then the communists came and ruined everything. laughing
      1. Per se.
        Per se. 1 September 2021 14: 06
        +7
        Quote: Arzt
        Lenin created a party called the RSDLP.
        "And then the communists came and ruined everything".
        Yes, on such a simple lie and demagogy, the Soviet Union was ruined by various scribblers and "well-wishers".

        In general, Marx clearly formulated the idea of ​​two phases of communist society - the first, in which the communist society only "emerges" from the capitalist, preserving its "birthmarks", and the highest, in which "to each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."
        The name "socialism" was established behind the first stage, this idea was taken up by Lenin and became one of the key ones in the ideology of Leninism, where the building of socialism was a direct practical task, and the building of communism was a distant one.

        Based on this, at the suggestion of Lenin, in 1918 Russian Social Democratic Labor Party (Bolsheviks) adopted the name "Communist".
        1. Citizen simple (almost)
          Citizen simple (almost) 1 September 2021 22: 30
          +1
          Quote: Per se.
          In general, Marx clearly formulated the idea of ​​two phases of communist society

          Right. Marx was clever. But Lenin turned out to be not very good, unfortunately (even with all sincere respect).

          Marx wrote that socialism can be born only from developed capitalism - and Lenin began to try to artificially "sow-give birth" to socialism in a country where mature capitalism had not yet existed (at the time of the revolution there was something incomprehensible between feudalism and capitalism). Predictably, a lot of problems arose. But this whole anti-scientific heresy has been dragged on for more than seventy years ...

          However, we do not have developed capitalism sufficient for a gradual transition to the stage of socialism even now (but here the present ones have "gone overboard" by building a developed kleptocracy instead of real "healthy capitalism").
          1. Per se.
            Per se. 2 September 2021 07: 31
            -1
            Quote: Citizen is simple (almost)
            But Lenin turned out to be not very good, unfortunately (even with all sincere respect).


            I will object to you so here, if it were not for Lenin, and, in general, the Bolsheviks, Russia would have already collapsed, as it was planned when the German, Austro-Hungarian, Ottoman and Russian empires sank into oblivion. What awaited us - the huge pre-war state debt of Russia to the West was supplemented by military debts and huge losses at the front. To this, Nicholas II abdicates in favor of his brother, who with a red bow supports the pro-Western February Revolution. The monarchy is over, the revolt of General Kornilov complements the prospect of an inevitable civil war, even without the Bolsheviks, which would even be worse than the confrontation between "whites" and "red", since without the Bolsheviks, in any case, there would be dependence on the West, which would never would not have allowed Russia to become a superpower, and the Yeltsins, Chubais and Gaidars would have appeared after 1917.

            The communists left behind a space and nuclear superpower, and this was possible only because an independent pole of power, socialism, was created. Now, in 30 years, our newly-minted capitalists have not created anything, only eating away the great Soviet legacy, even the space industry is in decline, in which the USSR was in the lead, and our Central Bank is under the IMF and, in fact, under the United States. This is indicative of the degradation of industry, health care, education and science, despite the fact that our capitalists did not get the devastation of 1917.

            It must be understood that the First World War determined the leader in capitalism between Britain and Germany, and the Second World War consolidated the leadership of the Anglo-Saxons in the world, and had to confront the independent USSR with the antipode created by the West, anti-USSR, Nazi Germany. The Soviet Union held out, moreover, a bloc of socialism appeared in the world.

            Yes, young and inexperienced socialism was raw, with many mistakes, but the result is obvious. It was not the system that lost, the human factor lost, we were harmed from the very beginning, but the inner enemy, fools and traitors turned out to be more dangerous. Those who discredited socialism are now preaching capitalism, keeping their billions with the enemies of Russia, and their time is running out.

            It was necessary to go through this, to taste the "forbidden fruit", to see the traitors, the wolf of "democracy" without their sheep's skins, to compare everything and draw conclusions. Moreover, the conclusions will be drawn not only by us in Russia, but also by the Germans in Europe, which are still in the actual occupation under the United States. The experience of socialism in the USSR, in some ways from the PRC, will help the rest of the world to do what Marx said, humanity has no bright future in capitalism.
            1. Citizen simple (almost)
              Citizen simple (almost) 2 September 2021 23: 49
              -1
              Quote: Per se.
              Yes, young and inexperienced socialism was raw, with many mistakes, but the result is obvious.

              Unfortunately, the result is really obvious - they lost not only power, but also the country. And these are precisely the consequences of those mistakes of a century ago.

              The "Februaryists" were far from the best and very inexperienced government, of course (here tsarism made the mistake of the current "derzhimord", personally trampling down completely all sane opposition, thereby depriving the country of alternative managers as a whole) - but it was power the most natural for this historical period in the development of Russian society (which, in general, a little later, even Lenin's NEP brilliantly proved).

              If that power had not been overthrown, the country would ALSO face an extremely difficult "transitional period", but then there would ALSO be an inevitable development. And most of those clever heads who distinguished themselves already under the Bolsheviks, I am sure, would have found a place for themselves in that power, would also serve for the good of the country.
              But at the same time, there would be neither the extremely strange Brest Peace, nor the destructive Civil Peace that followed it, nor all the "excesses" (let's call it mildly) the notorious collectivization and industrialization, nor the infamous "witch hunt" in the thirties - nor other terrible phenomena , which marked the Bolsheviks at the beginning of their reign. That is, there would be no situation when "ideological faith" is ahead of common sense.

              Quote: Per se.
              It was not the system that lost, the human factor lost, we were harmed from the very beginning, but the inner enemy, fools and traitors turned out to be more dangerous.

              But I’ll say that not all of them are "enemies" (more likely even, there were only a few real enemies out of the whole huge number). Just ordinary people, with their vices and weaknesses - which our "pseudo-socialists" simply famously threw out of all calculations.

              Quote: Per se.
              wolf "democracy" without their sheep skins, compare everything and draw conclusions.

              Are you seriously sure that we have ever had a real democracy? ))
              And that this is all the chaos that was going on "like-democrats" in the nineties - supposedly is democracy? In this case, I will note that you are extremely naive and greatly mistaken. We have democracy a couple of times just trying to emerge (the most real were the primary Leninist initiatives, but even Gorbachev's failed attempts were quite working) - but each time it was trampled in the bud, preventing it from developing further. Therefore, we have never had democracy as a "stable state", maximum by "random bursts".

              And here you immediately breed a whole "theory" - even without ever seeing the subject of discussion.

              Quote: Per se.
              Now, in 30 years, our newly-minted capitalists have not created anything, only eating up the great Soviet legacy

              Precisely because those whom you now erroneously (as we found out above) consider supposedly "democrats" are in fact banal kleptocrats (or thieves, in Russian speaking). They can dress up in any kind of clothes, raise any false banners - this will not change their essence (therefore, in fact, they are in the world "in bad standing", the essence cannot be hidden, everyone sees and understands everything).

              In more real democracies, such cunning personalities, at least, would not even have passed the elections, and as a maximum, everyone would have been sitting on bunks for a long time. So draw conclusions about what kind of real system we have today in the yard - it's anything but democracy ...
              1. Per se.
                Per se. 3 September 2021 07: 39
                -2
                To paraphrase, living in capitalism and being free from its laws is impossible. Now it is the only pole of power on the planet, with its own master-leader. You can puff out our "multipolar" cheeks, threaten their masters with a fist, but this is just PR to raise the rating.

                As you don’t understand, no one would allow Russia to become a nuclear and space superpower. The same China rose only because the West allowed it, seeing in it, after Damansky, a new anti-USSR, eastern, instead of the already defeated Western Third Reich. Now the Chinese "national communists" are pumping up their muscles on our empty borders of the Far East, and transnational monopolies are making colossal profits from counterfeit goods. China gets away with everything, both technology theft and piracy, and the very fact of "commies". Capitalist Russia is spread rot by sanctions and bikot, and from "red" China everything is like "water off a duck's back."

                The trouble with the isolation of Russia, in its originality and self-sufficiency, plus the potential that remained from the USSR so far, we are the only country that can destroy the United States. The West does not need a strong Russia, under any government.
                Therefore, traitors destroy us from within, "optimizing" industry, healthcare and education with science, instilling the cult of money and the morality of consumers, and outside the West itself. At the same time, the masters of capitalism play along, portraying "butting" with their lackeys, otherwise the people may not understand and "pick up a pitchfork" for open betrayal of the West's henchmen.

                It is impossible to build any "parallel capitalism", much less to build another pole of power, being in a foreign pole of power, under its world master, and rules that were not invented for the good of Russia and the colonies.

                There is only one way out, the return of socialism, and the current one will end, like NEP-2.
                1. Citizen simple (almost)
                  Citizen simple (almost) 3 September 2021 23: 03
                  -1
                  As you don’t understand, no one would allow Russia to become a nuclear and space superpower.

                  In my opinion, you are clearly overestimating this kind of "collective West" - demonizing it to the level of almost a "master of the world." But he is not such at all even today - and even more so, he was not such a century ago.

                  Therefore, the West simply cannot "allow" or "not allow" anything there. If a country has a real potential for development, if the country has a really sensible government, absolutely no West will prevent it from developing, this is simply impossible.
                  They can try to put a spoke in the wheel as much as possible - but this is a completely standard competition, as it has been from time immemorial between all countries claiming to strengthen or preserve their role in the region or in the world.

                  In general, the whole world history consists of these eternal "races for survival", if we recall it properly. There were huge empires - but now they are vegetating on the second, and even on the third roles. There were obvious "outsiders" - but who are among the world's leaders today. And tomorrow everything can change the other way around again.

                  Therefore, I repeat, it already depends solely on the rationality of the actions of each individual country. There is no "insidious West" or "good East" - everyone is only for himself.

                  Quote: Per se.
                  Therefore, traitors destroy us from within,

                  Yes, I beg you. Of these, "traitors" are like a bullet from something. ))
                  I say the same - the most common thief, seized upon the power of the gopot from the nineties. And, by the way, they also interfere with the West very much - they need solid and predictable partners, and not this is all the punks dressed up in costumes.

                  Quote: Per se.
                  Only one way out, the return of socialism

                  But this is simply not possible. Otherwise, an artificial chimera will again turn out - which sooner or later will collapse again simply due to the contradiction of the theory of the change of formations. You cannot just take and enter "in an order" what should ripen on its own, within society.
                  The meaning of the second time on the same rake? We have already passed.

                  I have already mentioned above that today even the advanced countries of the seemingly capitalist West are much closer on the way to hypothetical socialism, they just go more or less according to Marx. Unlike us, who "remained in the second year" with our current wild under-capitalism.
                  You cannot immediately make a butterfly out of a caterpillar without going through the cocoon stage. Well, in general, you can't. Alas.
    4. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 1 September 2021 13: 24
      -1
      Quote: tatra
      The Soviet communists created a whole socialist system in the world, and they had a bunch of "friendly regimes", and the enemies of the communists who seized the RSFSR under Yeltsin put Russia under the anti-Soviet-Russophobic West, and under Putin they had "enemies all around." They are people of too low quality to be capable of understanding what geopolitics and areas of interest are.

      So the USSR, in addition to the economy, failed miserably in geopolitics - these are the "doctors of the communists"))
      1. ANB
        ANB 2 September 2021 07: 15
        +1
        ... The USSR, in addition to the economy, failed miserably in geopolitics

        Well, if the USSR failed, then now we (RF) where?
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 2 September 2021 12: 36
          0
          Now it is a country where you can live and work without restrictions on movement, on the literature you read, on access to foreign information, entrepreneurship, etc.
          1. ANB
            ANB 2 September 2021 13: 33
            +1
            I'm talking about geopolitics.
            And with the economy and freedoms, the issue is difficult. This is a separate topic.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 2 September 2021 13: 54
              -1
              What about geopolitics? The Russian Federation, unlike the Union, does not contain any Kanibalsk tribe that has declared its anti-imperialist vector of development.
              1. ANB
                ANB 2 September 2021 14: 22
                0
                ... The Russian Federation, unlike the Union, does not contain any Cannibalsk tribe

                Well, here again about money :)
                Under the USSR, I traveled around the Baltics as if I were at home. And I felt the same way in the GDR.
                Under the USSR, they did not risk capturing Soviet citizens and taking them out for trial in the United States.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 2 September 2021 15: 17
                  0
                  I have never been to the Baltics in my life. I have never visited Germany east of Munich, have never been to the territory of the former GDR.
                  Didn't sell weapons.
                  Didn't do any hacking.
                  I am an ordinary petty Russian philistine,
                  In 69-70, tiny Israel openly shot down Soviet planes over the Suez Canal and bombed Soviet air defense batteries.
                  In 2018, after the tragic death of the Russian Il-20 as a result of an Israeli attack on Syrian facilities, a delegation led by the Israeli Air Force head arrived in Moscow urgently, although the spy was not shot down by Jews.
                  Under the USSR, single Soviet tourists were viewed as rogue trying to bargain for a video recorder - a stamp available to any French janitor for cans of black caviar. Under the Russian Federation, entering any boutique in Frankfurt am Main, sellers rushed to me in order to shove something more expensive, knowing the tastes and capabilities of Russian tourists.
                  Therefore, I don’t know what’s there with the Baltics and the GDR, where the Soviet people were not loved (the uncle was a polkangm interceptor in Tartu and DDR), but now Russians are perceived in a completely different way.
  3. Nitarius
    Nitarius 1 September 2021 04: 48
    0
    )) well, as one clever person said ... HAS NOTHING IN COMMON WITH REALITY! all this! some speculation and reasoning
  4. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 1 September 2021 05: 01
    +3
    Khrushchev, of course, put a big pig on the communists of the whole world by trampling the name of Stalin into the mud ... the man who made the most powerful power of the USSR from Russia with a plow. All that this man did later as Secretary General of the USSR ultimately led to the collapse of the country. I do not agree with the author that the workers in
    Poland and Hungary lived in poverty and bureaucracy ...
    Eastern Europe was much more prosperous and richer than many regions of the USSR destroyed by the Nazis to the ground ... all the more it should be borne in mind that the leadership helped these countries by taking those meager funds from the country's budget to restore the USSR ... this aid cost the whole world dearly.
    1. Ashes of Claes
      Ashes of Claes 1 September 2021 09: 58
      +2
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      this man in the post of General Secretary of the USSR

      Perseka of the Central Committee of the CPSU.
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      I do not agree with the author that the workers in
      Poland and Hungary lived in poverty and bureaucracy ...
      Eastern Europe was much more prosperous and richer than many areas of the USSR destroyed by the Nazis to the ground.

      Was Hungary "more prosperous" in the first post-war decade? Are you seriously? The Hungarian Reds cleared the political clearing and began to diligently implement the Soviet economic behemothism with collectivization and "heavy" industrialization, which, to put it mildly, led to the impoverishment of the Hungarians.
      It’s already 20 years later, Hungary has become "the funniest barrack of the socialist camp."
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 1 September 2021 11: 31
        +6
        You have to pay for what the Hungarians did on Soviet soil.
        1. Ashes of Claes
          Ashes of Claes 1 September 2021 13: 33
          +3
          A fail-safe argument. That is, the Sovietization of Hungary was a kind of sophisticated revenge of Stalin.
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          For what the Hungarians did on Soviet soil
          ?
    2. citizen
      citizen 1 September 2021 13: 45
      0
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Khrushchev, of course, put a big pig on the communists of the whole world by trampling the name of Stalin into the mud ... the man who made the most powerful power of the USSR from Russia with a plow.

      Well, in general, the USSR became a superpower capable of really threatening the United States, at best ten years after Stalin's death.
  5. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 1 September 2021 05: 24
    +2
    They made 150 billion debts for the supply of military equipment and equipment, then they wrote off the debts, Russia is a generous soul!
  6. nikvic46
    nikvic46 1 September 2021 05: 33
    +4
    Khrushchev, of course, harmed the communist movement, but I see his guilt as minimal. Any worldview should develop along with life. If you do not develop the teachings of Marx-Lenin, but only stupidly follow each letter, then it turns into a dogma. If we recall Marx's article on machines where labor becomes individual, then the communists did not take it seriously. Socialism was built on collective labor, but the era of the individual is coming. And socialism is not ready for such a turn. It will take many years, but people will not give up their attempts to build a social society.
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 1 September 2021 05: 36
      0
      Something does not seem that in China labor has become an individual matter.
      The Chinese communists used the advantages of capitalism to the fullest, taking into account its mobility in the economy.
      1. nikvic46
        nikvic46 1 September 2021 06: 09
        +3
        Lech from Android. It remains to be seen where China will come. And then you can't dump the population of China.
        1. Lech from Android.
          Lech from Android. 1 September 2021 06: 12
          -2
          Of course, one and a half billion stoned Chinese is not a joke.
          And if it wants, the CCP can arrange a happy life for anyone ... now the United States is in trouble ... the enemy of my enemy is our friend. hi
          1. Terran ghost
            Terran ghost 1 September 2021 11: 19
            0
            enemy of my enemy is our friend

            This is a filthy ideology. Exactly this, by the way, was the motivation behind almost the majority of the collaborators who entered the service of the Nazis during the Second World War.
            1. Lech from Android.
              Lech from Android. 1 September 2021 11: 32
              -1
              Well, you don't have to lie.
          2. citizen
            citizen 1 September 2021 13: 50
            +2
            Something this friend causes more fear than the enemy.
      2. citizen
        citizen 1 September 2021 13: 49
        +3
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        The Chinese communists used the advantages of capitalism to the fullest, taking into account its mobility in the economy.

        And they are exploiting their citizens in the same way that they have not been exploited in the West for a hundred years. Wild capitalism with a communist face.
    2. Ashes of Claes
      Ashes of Claes 1 September 2021 08: 55
      +4
      Quote: nikvic46
      If you do not develop the doctrine of Marx-Lenin, but only stupidly follow each letter, then it turns into a dogma.

      Well, yes, otherwise it is revisionism and a departure from basic principles, which, in turn, was not encouraged by party discipline, to put it mildly. Living theoretical thought belonged only to Lenin, after him everything turned into a dogmatic fossil that did not allow for fundamental discussions. Party degenerates turned into shopkeepers and bourgeois - what could they show to the world? Your egalitarian delusions?
      1. Kwas
        Kwas 1 September 2021 18: 21
        0
        Quote: Ashes of Klaas
        Living theoretical thought belonged only to Lenin, after him everything turned into a dogmatic fossil, which did not allow for fundamental discussions

        This is you in vain. Look at the discussions at the pre-war congresses!
        1. Ashes of Claes
          Ashes of Claes 1 September 2021 18: 52
          +1
          Quote: Kwas
          Look at the discussions at the pre-war congresses!

          before what war? Before and during WWI - yes, there were. At least Zimmerwald and Kintal. And before the Great Patriotic War - what, nafig, internal party discussions? Whom with whom? Complete unanimity and chorus stigmatization of opportunists and enemies.
  7. ximkim
    ximkim 1 September 2021 05: 44
    +3
    Although the rivers of Siberia did not have time to unfold.
    1. nikvic46
      nikvic46 1 September 2021 06: 16
      +4
      Vladimir. It's good. But what is done on the banks of these rivers will lead to disaster.
      1. ximkim
        ximkim 1 September 2021 07: 05
        +4
        Resources are not appreciated in Russia.
        If only to download and sell
  8. nikvic46
    nikvic46 1 September 2021 06: 14
    -2
    The teaching of Marx-Lenin is a living teaching. And it requires additions, marching with life. The code of the builder of socialism must be unshakable; it fully coincides with Christian teaching. After Stalin, they began to use it for other purposes.
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 1 September 2021 06: 18
      -2
      The teachings of Marx-Lenin-Stalin ... smile So it will be more accurate ... they had a hand in building the USSR.
      Khrushchev and his followers had a hand in the destruction of the USSR.
    2. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 1 September 2021 08: 36
      +1
      The teaching of Marx-Lenin is a living teaching.
      Turned into dogma
  9. parusnik
    parusnik 1 September 2021 06: 14
    +4
    After the report at the 20th Congress, the communist movement began a pogrom, and began with itself
  10. Ashes of Claes
    Ashes of Claes 1 September 2021 08: 30
    +2
    Thompson does not speak to Kettle. Cornforth promised to remain in the party, but on the day of the execution Nadia sent a check for a thousand pounds and a party card by registered mail. Miriam Palmi Dutt left her husband ... "


    What a touching soap opera ... I can just see the niggardly tear of a British communist dripping into a plate of oatmeal. Why not commit suicide by throwing yourself from the second floor of a red doubledecker onto the London pavement?
    The topic of the Irish leftists will be more interesting, I think)
  11. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 1 September 2021 08: 34
    +2
    In the current environment of analysts and Orientalists, it is extremely fashionable to argue that Russia can once again become a great ideological force on a global scale, competing with both Western neo-Trotskyism
    Neotrotskyism is a generalized name for the totality of ideological currents in the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, directed, in the opinion of a number of members of the leadership of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, against raising the "Russian question" in the party, including against the theory of so-called "Russian socialism". The concept of neo-Trotskyism in this sense arose in 2007 in the resolution of the Plenum of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation "On the danger of neo-Trotskyist manifestations in the Communist Party of the Russian Federation." The author of this concept is the Chairman of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation V.S.Nikitin. And how does this relate to Western neo-Trotskyism and who are its representatives?
    1. The comment was deleted.
  12. Fat
    Fat 1 September 2021 08: 38
    +4
    hi Good analysis. But let me ask you, where is the story here? In historical quotes? The fact that Khrushchev's Report at the 20th Congress was the impetus for the collapse of the communist movement is not a secret, then many communists turned their backs on the CPSU and the Soviet Union. Actually, the Hungarian "vacillation" is also the result of a "turning point" report. The Vietnam-China War of 1979, which is also called the "First Socialist", (for the first time in history, hostilities were fought between two socialist states.) - the result of the struggle against the personality cult of Stalin, hated by the "first communist" Khrushchev.
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 1 September 2021 17: 55
      +2
      But let me ask, where is the story here?
      hi - I am a historian, - the scientist confirmed and added neither to the village nor to the city: - Tonight there will be an interesting story at the Patriarch's Ponds! (with)
  13. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 1 September 2021 09: 59
    +3
    Naturally, the CPB could not sit idly by. Secretary General John Gollan sent party journalists to Budapest - the latter were supposed to confirm the official position of Moscow and collect evidence testifying to the "fascist rebellion in Hungary." Reports hit King Street like a tub of water ...


    They got scared there in earnest. The Daily Worker correspondents brought in such that they had to be fired urgently, and retroactively. Correspondent Peter Fryer became the record holder. He was expelled from the party and forced to sign a letter of resignation a year before the events described.
    1. A. Privalov
      A. Privalov 1 September 2021 11: 39
      +3
      The Daily Worker's leadership is understandable. The newspaper was almost entirely on the content of the CPSU (International Department of the Central Committee of the CPSU), and the Hungarian events could not be hidden and silenced. After all, then, in a rather short time, many thousands of Hungarians were arrested: 26 of them were brought before the courts, 000 were sentenced to imprisonment, 22 were interned, and 000 were executed (according to the estimates of the former Minister of Foreign Affairs of Hungary, Geza Yessenski, 13 people were executed). Approximately 000 have fled Hungary. Sporadic resistance and workers' council strikes continued until mid-229, causing an economic crisis. Party membership fell from 350 before the uprising to 200 by December 000.
      1. Anzhey V.
        1 September 2021 14: 19
        +3
        Thank you for your valuable comment)

        Very interesting figures for Hungary, thank you
        1. A. Privalov
          A. Privalov 1 September 2021 14: 28
          0
          Quote: Anjay V.
          Thank you for your valuable comment)

          Very interesting figures for Hungary, thank you

          You're welcome! hi
  14. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 1 September 2021 10: 25
    +2
    Imre Nagy Hungarian Gorbachev. Khrushchev removed Rakosi and put Nagy at the head of the party.
    The same thing happened in Poland where Bierut was removed. In Bulgaria Chervenkov and so on. Then they made it to Afghanistan.
    This did not take place only in the PRC, DPRK, Albania and DR Vietnam. Of these, today the restoration of capitalism has taken place only in Albania.
  15. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 1 September 2021 10: 54
    +4
    The collapse of the international communist movement occurred for two reasons: ideological and financial.
    This is the collapse of communist values ​​in the USSR and beyond, its collapse and the complete cessation of material support for foreign communist parties, all kinds of socialist and workers' movements sympathizing with the ideas of socialism and communism, who lived on this money quite well and carefree. Moreover, at will, some received for themselves and their environment colossal material benefits for a well-fed life in a well-fed Europe, while others, weapons and special equipment, training militants for an armed struggle for everything that was written in the programs of these movements.

    With the "money of the Party" the USSR, represented by the Central Committee of the CPSU, revolved around itself half of the countries of the then world, actively influenced the world political and economic processes.
    As soon as cash flows stopped, this whole system, if not completely collapsed, then shrank to a minimum. Communist and Marxist ideologies disappeared from the agenda, and revolutions and wars began to be more based on national and religious paths of development, and sometimes degradation, finding other sources of funding.
    1. ABC-schutze
      ABC-schutze 1 September 2021 13: 05
      +5
      In the USSR, there has never been any "collapse" of communist ideas as the foundation of state ideology. And it was banal their betrayal by the Gorbachev "perestroika", anti-Soviet elite ...

      And in this case, the notorious "collapse", BY DEFINITION, suffer ANY ideas. Just in case...

      In Russia, the ideas of polytheism - paganism, suffered a "collapse" when, by no means the "masses", but the top, in the guise of a condo pagan - Prince Vladimir, turned to Eastern Christianity, replacing them, in the interests of strengthening the power of the feudal-corporate clans, the former "free" polytheism ...

      But the betrayal of the ideas of polytheism, in favor of Eastern Christianity, by the ruling clans of Ancient Russia, objectively, was a step forward on the path of development.

      And the betrayal by the clan of "perestroika" of the ideas of communism, "in favor" of some impotently impersonal "pluralism" objectively, was a step into the deep past. During the Biblical "construction" of the Tower of Babel. How that "pluralism" ended for the "builders" (and why ...) were understood, presumably, by the contemporaries of St. Vladimir ...

      Just in case, as the foreman used to say from the wonderful Soviet film "Operation Y and Other Appliances. Shurik", "by the power of your imagination, imagine ..." that, say, the Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church, as well as the highest hierarchs, suddenly , "quietly", will refuse to support the ideas of Orthodoxy ... After that it will hold out for a long time in the "minds of the masses"? .. The same Russian masses? ..

      Just in case ... Orthodoxy in Russia is 10 centuries older than the ideas of communism. And what? .. His "commandments" were successfully freed from the sinfulness of "all" those who were cared for? .. And "forever" firmly, I suppose ...

      In short, enough dull and quasi-analytical tales about the "collapse" of communist ideas. When before the eyes of the whole world, EXACTLY UNDER THE LITERAL LEADERSHIP of the CCP, the Celestial Empire is marching triumphantly.
      USING the so-called. "market" principles specifically FOR BUILDING and DEVELOPING SOCIALISM and its IDEOLOGY, and not dismantling it ...
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 1 September 2021 13: 14
        +3
        Quote: ABC-schütze
        In the USSR, there has never been any "collapse" of communist ideas as the foundation of state ideology. And it was banal their betrayal by the Gorbachev "perestroika", anti-Soviet elite ...

        Not on the forehead, but on the forehead. request

        On the issue of Orthodoxy, you have the wrong address.
        This is not for me, sorry. And it has nothing to do with the topic of the article. hi
        1. ABC-schutze
          ABC-schutze 1 September 2021 13: 23
          +2
          Your statement about a certain "collapse" of the ideas of communism has nothing to do with the topic of the article. But, to the problem behind the theme of the pack standing, standing, my reference to the historical analogy, has the most direct relation ...

          And the evidence of this is the fact that you, in the context of the "collapse" of the communist idea, "did not notice" my own referral to the realities of the CONSEQUENTIAL triumph of the one and a half billion communist Celestial Empire ...
          1. A. Privalov
            A. Privalov 1 September 2021 13: 31
            +5
            Quote: ABC-schütze
            And the evidence of this is the fact that you, in the context of the "collapse" of the communist idea, "did not notice" my own referral to the realities of the CONSEQUENTIAL triumph of the one and a half billion communist Celestial Empire ...

            The realities of the Celestial Empire have a very indirect relationship to communism.
            And the fact that the population there is one and a half billion does not make communist ideas more alive.
            1. ABC-schutze
              ABC-schutze 1 September 2021 13: 43
              +1
              "The realities of the Celestial Empire have a very indirect relationship to communism ...."
              ************************************************** **********************
              Well, this is only for those who have "forgotten" or do not know that the basis of the so-called. "ideas of communism", lies the ideology of Marxism, with its dialectics ...

              And that in the Celestial Empire, the LEADING COMMUNIST CCP IS DEFINED ...
              1. A. Privalov
                A. Privalov 1 September 2021 13: 58
                +3
                Quote: ABC-schütze
                "The realities of the Celestial Empire have a very indirect relationship to communism ...."
                ************************************************** **********************
                Well, this is only for those who have "forgotten" or do not know that the basis of the so-called. "ideas of communism", lies the ideology of Marxism, with its dialectics ...

                And that in the Celestial Empire, the LEADING COMMUNIST CCP IS DEFINED ...

                Well, I remember, I myself have lived for forty years without a little in the world where Marxism served as a reliable compass.
                But the problem is that over more than three decades of post-Soviet existence, citizens have forgotten to think about this bearded man with burning eyes, not to mention the ghost of communism, and the Russian communists are doing their best in terms of Russian nationalism, Orthodoxy and Stalinism.

                As for the CCP, this name is just a figure of speech. She already has the same relation to communism as Portugal to footcloths, and Etruscans to cowards.
                1. ABC-schutze
                  ABC-schutze 1 September 2021 14: 17
                  +1
                  Sorry, but you switched to lyrics. It seems that behind the banal lack of intelligible arguments ...

                  Your naive, “citizens have forgotten to think,” is that some kind of “indicator” of the effectiveness and correctness of the SOCIAL idea?

                  What, there are "places" in the world, but in history there are periods where SOCIAL ideas would work "by themselves"? .. Just because they "are"? ..
                  1. A. Privalov
                    A. Privalov 1 September 2021 14: 27
                    +2
                    Quote: ABC-schütze
                    Sorry, but you switched to lyrics. It seems that behind the banal lack of intelligible arguments ...

                    Your naive, “citizens have forgotten to think,” is that some kind of “indicator” of the effectiveness and correctness of the SOCIAL idea?

                    What, there are "places" in the world, but in history there are periods where SOCIAL ideas would work "by themselves"? .. Just because they "are"? ..


                    Let's not stoop to recriminations. What I have, that is, and what I don’t, we ask sorry.

                    You are absolutely right, "by itself", nothing works anywhere.
                    Everything requires drive energy.
                    I'm not even talking about "SOCIAL ideas", which, among other things, require material resources, ideologists, followers and carriers.
                    “Remember the“ leading power ”and“ organizing role ”? Today there is neither one nor that. So, as anyone who looks out of the window can be convinced of this, the“ indicator of the creeping degradation of the INEAD philistine consciousness ”is off the charts. hi
                    1. ABC-schutze
                      ABC-schutze 1 September 2021 14: 52
                      +2
                      Sorry, then let's not equate the banal "statement of facts" with analytics.

                      What are you actually doing now ...

                      For the first one, indeed, it is quite enough "to look out the window". And not have the arguments I mentioned.

                      But then, why go to the VO forum? .. If the "window" is enough ...
                      1. A. Privalov
                        A. Privalov 1 September 2021 15: 04
                        +2
                        Quote: ABC-schütze
                        Sorry, then let's not equate the banal "statement of facts" with analytics.

                        What are you actually doing now ...

                        For the first one, indeed, it is quite enough "to look out the window". And not have the arguments I mentioned.

                        But then, why go to the VO forum? .. If the "window" is enough ...

                        Apparently, I really, lagged behind the reality and somehow missed the moment. request
                        Please tell us about the prospects for the development of the ideas of Marxism, if you like, and Leninism.
                        I will listen with interest to your reasoned analytics.
  16. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 1 September 2021 12: 26
    +2
    The construction of the USSR's success was largely built on deception and misinformation of all sorts - these means worked inside, exciting, involving and ideologically stimulating the population with fear, hatred, a false sense of superiority and appeals to the manifestation of exceptional qualities allegedly inherent in a special, Soviet type of person. Accordingly, the flip side of these means punished and forced - soldering people and their relatives horse terms for various garbage, and painstakingly processing or breaking them until they are useful for the country where it is needed and in the form in which it is needed.
    The same means worked outside - we rubbed the glasses with the developed cap. countries about how good and cool, free and legal we live here, in what joyful, working-creative ecstasy the people and the party have merged. Neither paper, nor juicy words, nor fantasies for arranging events were spared for this. Where necessary, we also used force - kidnapped people, worked with ice axes, supplied weapons and trained what today we would call "terrorists" and "proxies."

    All this worked relatively well "in the Goebbels way" - the better, the less information-rich environment people were, the better, the less developed the means of disseminating information. With the post-war development of the radio teleformat, with a multiple increase in the number of illustrated, affordable and high-quality publications covering more and more areas of life, with a multiple increase and coverage of various film products, this has become worse and worse. And the Soviet people began to be surprised, listening to foreign broadcasts, glancing at foreign magazines. And foreign people also began to be surprised - the more often (with unprecedented coverage) some photographs from the USSR or from the fields of Soviet diplomacy were disseminated. Either infa was simply spread that this one fled with the MiG to Japan, or that, for example, jumped off a steamer, sailed to Turkey and asked for political asylum.
    In a world developing in this way - it would only be a matter of time to detect the dirty, inept and unwise legacy of Stalin's times - even if it had not been exposed by Khrushchev, it would have happened anyway. Because the involvement of people in the West and in the USSR in the information media - all increased after BB2. Sooner or later, statistics, and photos of the camps, and photos of living conditions, and interviews, and so on and so forth would have surfaced. And it would "go" in the post-war world - because everyone already knew from Germany and Japan that it COULD BE THIS.
    But this is the juicy part of the pie - the not juicy part includes photographs of communal apartments from some 70s, photographs of domestic household products of a gloomy Soviet genius, real samples of clothing, textiles, electronics, cars, etc. Of course, there was good too. But IN THE MASS OF OWN, our NOT EXHIBITION products were great inferior to the Western ones. And the unpleasant picture would have formed the better, the longer the USSR lived and the better developed information technologies. The West for the most part would have learned that in the USSR, many really IMMEDIATED problems were not solved and there were a lot of them. That life was in places dumb, uncomfortable and not beautiful, but before the glorified "freedoms" it was like before Mars.
    Taking into account the fact that our country was rather closed, all this "for the future" would play the stronger against us.
    We could not win the information battle - there was nothing to cover. Western communist movements would also consistently degrade, like our own - had it not been for the XNUMXth Congress and Khrushchev - this might have happened a little later.
    1. ABC-schutze
      ABC-schutze 1 September 2021 13: 30
      +3
      "The construction of the USSR's success was largely built on deception and misinformation of all sorts -"
      **********************************************************************************
      Sorry, what kind of tram did you overhear this garbage? ..

      Just in case...

      The "country of fools", where everything is built the way you dreamed it, would never have raised the Victory Banner over the Reichstag, would never have achieved nuclear parity, would never have achieved priority in space, would never have become one of (five - six, not more ...) world leaders in the field of microelectronic technologies. And I could never have created the unique potential of real self-sufficiency. Equal to which, in the world of "correct constructions", philistine consciousness, there is and will not be ...
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 1 September 2021 14: 06
        +3
        You are talking about the construction and you can grind the favorite coffee of all leftists - about victory, space and ballet.
        What were the options after the German attack? Win / Lose. It was more difficult to lose than to win in mathematical and strategic terms. Therefore we won. The victory, of course, was not Pyrrhic, but it is difficult to compare it in terms of effectiveness with the French or Polish campaign of the Wehrmacht. Because human and material losses, long-term occupation of a serious part of the country, catastrophic events of a good half of the Second World War - this clearly indicates that it was all a feat, but not a Triumph. These are two different things. The system has shown its stability - but stability and efficiency are completely different things. As world practice shows, in a long-term confrontation it is efficiency that takes out, which is what happened - we lost to HV.
        You are talking about priority in space - beautifully. Indeed, there was such a narrow segment of this priority. The first satellite, the animal, the first return of the animal, the first man, the first space walk, etc. Then our priority was replaced by parity, and then - by the separation of the United States in qualitatively completely incommensurable things. Mars, long-range missions, the Moon, quantity-quality of AMS, photographs, autonomy, commercial orbital exploration, quality of space microelectronics.
        Realizing the scale of our lag even at the peak of the USSR - do you really think that it is important who was there first? Subjectively, it is certainly important, but objectively ..
        "Country of Fools", where everything is built as you dreamed

        Well, the old dirty communal apartments and barracks, in which generations of people lived, plowed for the "country of fools" and calmly lived up to the collapse of the union - I probably also dreamed about it.
        The worthless CPSU, whose tens of millions of members, despite decades of brutal leftist propaganda and 100500 published works of great leftist thinkers, merged without a fight, repainted and with joyful ecstasy began to break what was being built yesterday - I also probably dreamed of it.
        Maybe I dreamed of Soviet household appliances - which burned, broke, chewed the film mercilessly and often refused to work at all as the inventors intended?
        Maybe I did not see the friendship of peoples and a powerful moral core in what I observed in the 90s, with those people and generations who quite caught the peak of the power of the USSR? Indeed, I did not see it.
        I could continue these reflections - but the experience of dialogues with leftists tells me that everything will end up when you start singing "Internationale" wrapped in red calico. Therefore, I am only waving sluggishly with my claws in not particularly willing attempts to appeal to your mind - more from idleness than from the real value of such conversations.

        The USSR was a strong, but stupid state, which in vain wasted a huge part of what was actually gained by exploits - and did not make the people who performed these exploits neither richer nor more stable, but in reality, by their experiments, bringing these people to a miserable state on the verge of hysteria, despair, materialism and spiritual devastation - which was very clearly visible from the 80s to the end of the 90s.
        1. ABC-schutze
          ABC-schutze 1 September 2021 14: 24
          +2
          "For you about the construction, let's grind the favorite coffee of all leftists - about victory, space and ballet."
          ************************************************** ***************************
          As for the "leftists", these are exactly those who were deservedly and timely processed with the "ice axes" you mentioned ...

          As for the "construction", it is about it that you did not say a single intelligible word ... By the way, it EXACTLY provided the BEST system of FOLK education in the WORLD of ALL LEVELS and FORMS of TRAINING ...

          And even me, a student of the late Soviet period, unlike you - the "accuser", remembered from the lessons of Russian stylistics that they say "About something" and not "ABM something" ...
          1. Knell wardenheart
            Knell wardenheart 1 September 2021 14: 31
            +4
            By the way, EXACTLY she provided the BEST system of PEOPLE'S education in the WORLD OF ALL LEVELS and FORMS OF TRAINING ...

            And the Soviet economic education was probably, according to your logic, the best in the world? :) And we probably trained the managerial staff just gorgeous?) And what diplomats we had in international affairs - mmmm) you can just download)) Oh, I almost forgot -secondary, secondary technical education what we had -mmmm) What a high culture of production of mass products then there was, what cut, what elegant technical solutions ..

            And even me, a student of the late Soviet period, in contrast to you - the "accuser", remembered from the lessons of Russian stylistics that they say "About something", and not "ABM something"

            I'm glad for your cool memory, but our dialogue shows that you have it extremely selective))
            1. Oleg Aviator
              Oleg Aviator 1 September 2021 18: 39
              +1
              I disagree with you a little about household appliances. We compared the Yuzhmashevskaya eagle with the 330m decks technique. As you understood, the eagle won by the sound and the dolby noise suppression. The high frequency is generally remarkable. But this fact is not technologically advanced. To get to the tape drive, 18 bolts need to be unscrewed and inside, like on an airplane, the console contains boards and an alarm clock for the power supply. I mean there were both advantages and disadvantages. And about the communal apartment, etc., I agree with you.
              1. Knell wardenheart
                Knell wardenheart 1 September 2021 20: 28
                +2
                I agree, there were different products.
                But Soviet TVs - which constantly broke down, which had to be switched with pliers, in which fuses were constantly burning (and this is in Moscow !!!), a picture was jumping and so on, so on .. I still have aesthetic nightmares.
                I was personally familiar with the "Electronics" tape recorder - it had pluses, outwardly it was strong and the solders were there from the heart. But he constantly chewed the film, his rubber drive flew off the motor, buttons jammed, etc. - if I didn't know how to fix all these idiotic jambs of his designers myself, I would really go broke on repairs. After him there was some kind of faceless Asian - who was half the size of electronics, did not chew film and had a built-in radio. And served three times longer. I just imagined how he was popping like bricks with bricks by those people who could not replace the fuse themselves or pull on the rubber clutch that had come off the engine - and after all, they did. Because half of my childhood, I corrected what I could with the remains of the technology of that "advanced civilization" by friends and acquaintances.
        2. ABC-schutze
          ABC-schutze 1 September 2021 14: 35
          +1
          "Maybe I dreamed of Soviet household appliances - which burned, broke, chewed mercilessly on the film and often refused to work at all the way its inventors intended?"
          ************************************************** ***************************
          Do you have any statistics COMPARING with the Soviet statistics on failures of Western or Japanese household equipment? ..

          On products COMPARABLE in the QUANTITY of PRODUCED products?

          Or do you make your children's "conclusions" about designs, their quality and reliability on the basis of amateurish "comparisons" of failures or failures, on the strength of a thousand - another, Western products, annually, "imported" to the USSR and HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS ANNUALLY produced in the USSR, similar by the functional purpose of household appliances? ..

          Just in case ... Soviet serially and IN DIFFERENT REGIONS of the USSR, the airplanes that Aeroflot used on international and domestic flights, more often than Western ones "fell"? .. Oh no ...

          Well, then, with the traditional lament about a certain "technological wretchedness" of the LIVING BY MEANS (and not counting the account of permanent "credit" and "printing press" ...) of the USSR and the "unreliability" of its products, rest ...
          1. Knell wardenheart
            Knell wardenheart 1 September 2021 14: 48
            +2
            Do you have any statistics COMPARING with the Soviet statistics on failures of Western or Japanese household equipment?

            And we and our friends had Soviet TVs, washers, tape recorders, and somehow all this very quickly changed to "shitty western", which then served four times longer and without painful repairs and accompanying inconveniences. I, unlike you, do not care deeply about statistics (which we have on a regular basis, under any government, sings odes to how well life is and how everything is growing) - I am talking about what I interact with and interact with.

            I tell you about HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES, you tell me about aircraft and military products. Do you wash things at home with a machine gun? Maybe you have a MiG instead of a washing machine? People's attitude to the system is formed, among other things, according to the products of this system, with which people intersect. This is one of the pillars of "soft power".

            Finally - here you are very good at emphasizing the advantage of "living within the means of the USSR" in comparison with the "West living on credit." The piece of humor here is that the "West living on credit", due to the better quality of household goods, had both markets and huge funds from which not only covered these favorite loans, but also launched new production lines, conducted R&D, and sold these the most production lines including in the USSR. And to this day this process goes on and on, although every year the leftists bury everything and bury capitalism. Does the USA live badly? Germany? England? France? Sweden? So why don't they all come here - why do our people go there? :)
            1. ABC-schutze
              ABC-schutze 1 September 2021 15: 30
              +2
              "The thing of humor here is that the" West living on credit "due to the better quality of household goods had both markets and huge funds, from which not only covered these favorite loans, but also launched new production lines, conducted R&D, and sold these same production lines, including in the USSR. "
              ************************************************** **********************
              On account of the "best quality" you have not provided any objective evidence yet. Personal impressions and references to "friends and acquaintances" are not worth it ... This time ...

              At the expense of the "covers" is generally ridiculous ...

              How did he “cover” the debts with cut paper with watermarks? .. And how does such a “cover” lead to permanent systemic crises? "west"? ..
            2. ABC-schutze
              ABC-schutze 1 September 2021 15: 37
              +1
              "1. Does the USA live badly? Germany? England? France? Sweden?"
              2. So why don't they all come here - why do our people go there? :) "
              ************************************************** **********************
              1. Judging by THEIR SYSTEM crises, starting AT LEAST since 1998, AND EXACTLY on the so-called. "high-tech markets", they live in a PERMANENT jitter. And nothing else ... And the year 2008, this, ONCE AGAIN, showed excellently ...

              But what and how they "seize" their PERMANENT stress, to maintain the so-called. "social tranquility", this is the tenth thing.

              Tolley "printing press" is launched, for "helicopter" distribution to the layman and "lending" to bankrupts, or another war "for democracy" is starting somewhere ...
        3. ABC-schutze
          ABC-schutze 1 September 2021 14: 42
          +1
          "Well, the old dirty communal apartments and barracks, in which generations of people lived, plowed into the" country of fools ", and calmly lived to see the collapse of the union - I probably also dreamed about it."
          ******************************************************************************
          Well yes...

          And, of course, you, of course, "did not notice" DISTRICTS OF NEW BUILDINGS with free housing for Soviet citizens, CONTINUOUSLY, FOR DECADES, appearing ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. Who would doubt that ...

          By the way, where and by whom it is "written", what time is OBJECTIVELY required for the complete "elimination" of the mentioned problem in the country LIVING BY MEANS and HIS LABOR ...

          And I probably "dreamed" your permanent, EXACTLY SYSTEM world crises. Also, until now, not "obsolete". And it must be assumed that it is from that, IMPOTENTLY, declared "normal phenomena" ...
          1. Knell wardenheart
            Knell wardenheart 1 September 2021 14: 55
            +3
            And, of course, you, of course, "did not notice" DISTRICTS OF NEW BUILDINGS with free housing for Soviet citizens, CONTINUOUSLY, FOR DECADES, appearing ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. Who would doubt that ...

            You have been pointed out that communal barracks AS A PHENOMENON survived calmly until the collapse of the USSR. You probably ignored it - and I will remind you that the USSR positioned itself as a SOCIAL state. Like a superpower. As an assistant to the poor and the poor around the world. And then such a question was not resolved. As the picture does not add up! And speaking of housing, are you probably singing an ode to faceless human beings? This is also very progressive, especially for a country that occupies 1/6 of the land and at the end of the 80s was the leader in the production of timber, concrete, etc. Well, nothing of this was found to solve this issue (in general), and even more so to solve it aesthetically :-)

            But I probably "dreamed" your permanent, EXACTLY SYSTEM world crises.

            What crises are we talking about?) About the collapse of the United States into states with the subsequent dismantling of NATO?) Maybe about the coming to power in Germany on the wave of the crisis of some analogue of Yeltsin? I do not see crises in the West that even closely resemble our own cramps and tosses. As the West was rich, so it is rich as before, as they lived there well-so they live. What crises are you talking about? :)
            1. ABC-schutze
              ABC-schutze 1 September 2021 16: 08
              +3
              "You were told that communal barracks AS A PHENOMENON survived calmly until the collapse of the USSR. You probably ignored it - and I will remind you that the USSR positioned itself as a SOCIAL state."
              ************************************************** **********************
              What does funny "calm down" mean? ..

              In the USSR, EXACTLY AS in a SOCIAL state, barracks and communal apartments were not settled? ... New micro-districts were NOT CONSTANTLY and ALL-IN-ONE built? ..

              Do you have a certain "schedule" of the time that the state objectively needs to solve this problem (specifically, the task, and not at all a "problem" ...) time? ..
        4. ABC-schutze
          ABC-schutze 1 September 2021 14: 47
          +2
          "I could continue these reflections - but the experience of dialogues with leftists tells me that everything will end up when you start singing" Internationale "wrapped in red hair."
          ******************************************************************************
          Alas, you have not even started these "reflections" yet ...

          On the face, - a set of banal, well-worn "stampings" -myths that do not withstand elementary verification even with the simplest and most logical question-clarification ...
          1. Knell wardenheart
            Knell wardenheart 1 September 2021 14: 56
            +3
            Alas, you have not even started these "reflections" yet ...

            On the face, - a set of banal, well-worn "stampings" -myths that do not withstand elementary verification even with the simplest and most logical question-clarification ...

            Here I don't even need to write anything - I'll just copy yours for you :-)
    2. ABC-schutze
      ABC-schutze 1 September 2021 13: 36
      +3
      "We could not win the information battle - there was nothing to cover. ..."
      **********************************************************************************
      Sak at the expense of "we", i.e. YOU don't know ...

      And the Soviet people never "lost" anything to anyone. And the results of the All-Union Referendum of March 17, 1991 are a clear confirmation of this. The people of the USSR spoke out AND FOR the preservation of Soviet power, AND FOR the preservation of the Union, AND FOR the preservation of Socialism ...

      And the fact that he was betrayed by YOU is already a topic for another article ...
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 1 September 2021 14: 13
        0
        Quote: ABC-schütze
        "We could not win the information battle - there was nothing to cover. ..."
        **********************************************************************************
        Sak at the expense of "we", i.e. YOU don't know ...

        And the Soviet people never "lost" anything to anyone. And the results of the All-Union Referendum of March 17, 1991 are a clear confirmation of this. The people of the USSR spoke out AND FOR the preservation of Soviet power, AND FOR the preservation of the Union, AND FOR the preservation of Socialism ...

        And the fact that he was betrayed by YOU is already a topic for another article ...


        Here again I see a leftist waving some papers, referendums, resolutions .. this is your whole leftist manichka, which resulted in endless chewing of paper, healthy meetings and streams of orthodox gibberish.
        You yourself have devalued all these paper waterfalls - and from the very beginning of the Union. Inflation, changes in economic policies, "fake" constitutions and "angry letters of workers", fake, unrealizable promises, a bunch of wasted paper on Lenin's case, which was not enough to publish fairy tales or popular science literature - and so, how can you kill yourself? So ! There was a referendum, they voted, etc. .. They themselves have created a house of cards, guys, and you yourself are surprised that the floor is springy. Funny..
        1. ABC-schutze
          ABC-schutze 1 September 2021 15: 53
          0
          "Here again I see a leftist waving some pieces of paper, referendums, resolutions ... this is your whole leftist manichka, which resulted in endless chewing of paper, healthy meetings and streams of orthodox gibberish."
          ******************************************************************************
          Wouldn't it bother you to clearly translate this amorphous garbage into Russian? ..
        2. ABC-schutze
          ABC-schutze 1 September 2021 16: 01
          0
          "... fake, unrealizable promises, a heap of wasted paper on Lenin's case, which was not enough to publish fairy tales or popular science literature - and now, how can you kill yourself! ..."
          ******************************************************************************
          Another set of lies ...

          Soviet printing plants worked in three shifts.

          Circulation of children's and popular science literature was the largest in the world. The assortment is the most extensive ... And the prices are the most affordable ...

          Moreover, even taking into account editions in "national" languages ​​...

          Even the same Alpatov, "Old Russian Icon Painting", in excellent printing, in a Soviet store, cost only 25 rubles (where I bought it) ... And, yes, there was a queue for him. And not everyone had enough. Which is ABSOLUTELY NORMAL ...

          But a cleaning lady could afford to buy it, without "gaps" in the family budget. How much does it cost now? ..
      2. Keer
        Keer 2 September 2021 01: 35
        +2
        And the results of the All-Union Referendum of March 17, 1991 are a clear confirmation of this. The people of the USSR spoke out AND FOR the preservation of Soviet power
        Well, why the advanced system of democracy, which was seventy years old at that dinner, could not realize the aspirations of the people? After all, she was the most tenacious and stable, as the Bolsheviks used to say?
        1. ABC-schutze
          ABC-schutze 3 September 2021 21: 35
          0
          Are you sure that you do not confuse the "aspirations of the people", that is, the needs, with the banal wishes of the "relaxed" Soviet social security, low prices and real solvency, the average man? ..

          You also, in the context of the result of the March 17 Referendum on the preservation of the USSR, mentioned by me, in the "aspirations" of the Soviet people, the absence of, say, Coca-Cola in the USSR ...

          As for the 70 Soviet years, let me remind you that the "competitors" who unleashed TWO WORLD wars existed for 200-300 years before the formation of the Soviet state. In much more favorable conditions than the Soviet state ... Even the whole colonial system was "blinded" for themselves ...

          Well? .. Have you realized many "people's aspirations"? .. When? .. And where? .. If it's not a secret ...

          Religion, Christian in particular, with its "commandments", in contrast to scientific communism, has existed for a couple of thousand years. And the flock diligently "processes". Moreover, being in power for CENTURIES ...

          Well? .. Do you have any questions about why it hasn’t saved the human world from sinfulness for a couple of thousand years of “educational work”? Or are you, exclusively for Soviet power, the time intervals "necessary" for solving problems and tasks, are ready to "cut"? ..

          And "in pursuit" ...

          Not a single social system in the world is "immune" from betrayal. Including betrayal "at the top." Neither Soviet, nor your (your) ...
          1. Keer
            Keer 3 September 2021 23: 51
            +1
            You ask these questions to Marx-Engels. Not for me.
    3. ABC-schutze
      ABC-schutze 1 September 2021 13: 55
      +3
      "But IN THE MASS OF ITS OWN EXHIBITION products were great inferior to the Western ones. And the unpleasant picture would have formed the better, the longer the USSR would have lived and the better the information technologies would have been developed."
      *
      Even "cool"? .. I wonder what? ..

      Did you conduct their comparative tests for reliability? .. Do you, besides chatter, have any, if not objective, then at least "sane" statistics on this subject? ..

      Excuse me, why don't you remind us that ALL mentioned "Western market goods" were provided at the expense of life "on credit"? .. That is to say, permanent, SYSTEM, life IN DEBT? , SELL and BUY IN DEBT? .. And then, when the DEBT CANNOT BE RETURNED, they "declare" another "financial" and other "crisis". Hypocritically and impotently calling this SYSTEM BANKRUPTCY "the norm"? ...
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 1 September 2021 14: 25
        +3
        Did you conduct their comparative tests for reliability? .. Do you, besides chatter, have any, if not objective, then at least "sane" statistics on this subject? ..

        I suggest that you competently challenge my "incorrect" thoughts by giving a full set of statistics that are so beloved by you and refute it. Of course, not from some kind of ura-leftist resource. This will be your finest hour, I have no doubt.

        on this subject

        That is to say

        Hello Prigogine ..

        What you write in kaplokom further is very funny ... because the "pernicious west" is dying and dying - as early as the thirtieth year after the USSR, and can not finish it off, sick, neither debt, nor credit slavery. On the contrary, it grows so that we never dreamed of. It's time to think about where there is real
        Hypocritical and impotent
        1. ABC-schutze
          ABC-schutze 1 September 2021 15: 50
          +4
          "I suggest that you competently challenge my" incorrect "thoughts by giving a full set of statistics that are so beloved by you and refute it."
          ******************************************************************************
          Competent challenge begins precisely with a competently posed question in the thesis put forward. Which I did ...

          Did you put forward the thesis? .. It seems like you ...

          Well, then show me clearly and objectively visibly mentioned by you "this" ... Moreover, in the context of reasoning and the "system" of its disadvantages and advantages, namely statistics ...

          In other words, the OBJECTIVE statistics that you have, confirming that the serial products of the Soviet radio industry were less reliable than the isolated Western "samples" imported into the USSR ... And not your and your friends' "impressions" ...

          And start, AT LEAST, with an estimate of the QUANTITY of "Western products" imported into the USSR annually ...

          For the same VEF, which was produced for HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS and YEARS, and BOUGHT ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, in particular, on the quality of reception and reliability, were there many complaints? ..
          1. Keer
            Keer 4 September 2021 00: 09
            +1
            Elementary things were falling apart. In winter, in the Caucasus, my tourist mount on the ski fell apart, if you don't know, then this crap consists of a U-shaped aluminum profile and a cable. No moving parts. The profile managed to fall apart, because of which I almost died, and my hands froze. After that twenty years he used a much more complex bourgeois silvretta without refusals. And such a guana was produced in the USSR by the sea. Therefore, every competent motorist had a garage with a pit.
      2. Keer
        Keer 3 September 2021 00: 08
        +1

        Have you carried out comparative tests for reliability?
        if Vereya's jeans were comparatively tested with Lewis, then the paint on the first ones would not be erased at all, and therefore they would have won. laughing But for some reason, all the children of the Soviet Elite preferred Levi to the ostrich to Veree. That's why? Or did the Soviet education system raise idiots? No, it's not true. And, probably, the people themselves were not advanced, which could be overwhelmed with golny lies? No, this cannot be, in an advanced society wink which is more than half a century old. Maybe everything is simpler, and Vereya jeans were guan?
        1. ABC-schutze
          ABC-schutze 3 September 2021 22: 05
          0
          And what about Soviet, say, Belarusian linen shirts with US-made shirts relatively weak? ..

          Those that Soviet sailors over the hillock dragged in "suitcases" and literally snapped it up there? .. And for the "green" too ... the aspirations of "the people are already here? ..

          In our times, I still had a chance with them, then young or not yet "old" to talk and, even, "local fools" grab our flax and C / B, and the fools from the USSR, respectively, "wrap themselves up" in a "fashionable" foreign plastic...

          And the Soviet ice cream with nuts, creamy and popsicle, chocolate with raisins, moreover, FROM ANY Soviet street kiosk, with overseas, street "ice-cream" slops "relatively weak? ..

          And what about the Soviet punch and kvass, with mixed Coca-Cola? ..

          Or do you propose to "compete" only in denim trousers? ..

          But even here you will definitely "merge" ...

          In the USSR, in every urban neighborhood there was a tailoring workshop. WITH THE BROADEST choice of material, from "tarpaulin" to "sea wool". And good cutters ... And funny, by the way, prices ...

          So compare, according to standard and objective methods, the assortment, wear and tear, the price of Soviet knitwear and other materials with junk for Okenaski. In advance, I ask you not to refer to the "schoolchildren's opinions" or "your personal" ...

          For, personally, I have not seen or worn any more junk than that from which the "fancy" form of the US GI or Moreman of that period was made ...

          By the way, Marquez was extremely pleased that he traveled thousands of miles across the USSR and did not see a single ... "Coca-Cola advertisement." The fools "perestroika", of course, "corrected" this "Soviet flaw" ...

          Slops like Coca-Cola and hamburgers appeared without any problems. At "metropolitan prices" ... But domestic linen shirts, crochet, chocolate and popsicle without palm, disappeared without any problems ...
          1. Keer
            Keer 3 September 2021 23: 44
            +1
            Well, the ice cream was excellent, though only in the central cities. There was guano on the periphery. About the excellent material available in the atelier, lies. Moremans dragged their travel allowances over the hill mainly, trying to buy goods for everything and then hand over their clothes and electronics to the USSR, some in lumps, some to dealers. We lived very well. My father was a sea captain.
            In our times, I still had the opportunity to talk to them, then young or not yet "old" and,
            I watched everything with my own eyes. No memoirs. "Soviet means excellent" was the slogan that was, and not the truth of life laughing
    4. Kwas
      Kwas 1 September 2021 18: 33
      -1
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      We could not win the information battle - there was nothing to cover.

      We won it in an elementary way, primarily in the colonies of the "enlightened and humane" West. Why - I hope you understand. And then everything is simple - the West without colonies will rapidly slide to where it belongs, and where it will be in one way or another in a few years.
  17. Per se.
    Per se. 1 September 2021 13: 04
    +4
    Forces that now take a deeply anti-Soviet and anti-Russian position.

    The forces that the Soviet Union once nurtured with its own hands.


    Much more offensive for other forces.




    Who made these people join the party? Now such renegades in the new ruling party are making their careers. First, they discredited the Soviet Union and socialism, now they care about the Russian people ...
  18. geologist
    geologist 1 September 2021 13: 42
    -1
    The Ross empire grew for 1000 years, then it disintegrated in order to revive into an even greater state formation with a population of half a billion people, if we count, in addition to the CMEA / Warsaw Pact countries, allies from Africa; Libya, Algeria, Egypt, Asia; Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc. This system, based on new ideological principles, turned out to be unstable and collapsed with the collapse of the USSR. Now we have a world war for the inheritance of a global empire. Destroyed many factories that were wonderful works of mankind - "Ikarus" in Hungary, the aviation industry in Ukraine, nuclear production in Czechoslovakia, etc. the list can continue. The War of Succession lasts 30 years and can last up to 100 years. Yugoslavia is destroyed, Czechoslovakia is divided, civil wars are raging in Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine. Thousands of refugees flooded into Europe. The war is going on in space, where Russia has slipped into a secondary role of a cab and on the ground. The main events move to Ukraine, where a repetition of the 100-year war of the French oligarchs in the territories of present-day England and France is possible.
    1. Ashes of Claes
      Ashes of Claes 1 September 2021 18: 57
      +5
      Quote: geologist
      The empire of the Rossi grew for 1000 years, then it disintegrated in order to revive into an even greater state formation with a population of half a billion people, if we count, in addition to the CMEA / Warsaw Pact countries, allies from Africa; Libya, Algeria, Egypt, Asia; Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc.

      laughing
      This extravaganza is simple!
  19. 1536
    1536 1 September 2021 13: 59
    +3
    In one paragraph and in five long sentences: After the Great Patriotic War, people with petty-bourgeois shtetl psychology came to power in the CPSU (b), and then in the CPSU. Moreover, they were all cut off from their social basis, since this social basis was actually destroyed during the years of I.V. Stalin or became a shadow, criminal part of Soviet society. Gradually, by about the mid-1970s, they occupied all key party posts at all levels of government, including in the state security bodies, in the army, industry and agriculture, in ideology, science and culture. Deprived of social roots, essentially turning into mankurt (as the apt expression of the writer Cengiz Aitmatov), ​​these people gradually leveled concepts such as "Motherland", "socialism", "public property", and then universal human "honesty", "decency" , "conscientiousness". The result was the destruction of the USSR, the transfer of the main functions of the state under the control of foreign states at the turn of the 1980s - 1990s.
    As for the "fraternal parties", their support could hardly contribute to the preservation of the USSR and the system of world socialism as a whole in the current conditions. It is no coincidence that practically until the 1970s, the countries of the "Soviet bloc" were called countries of "people's democracy," and in the name and when these countries were mentioned, the word "socialism" began to be used purely nominally, apparently under pressure from officials from the CPSU Central Committee. Poland, for example, until the very destruction of the socialist foundations of states was called the Polish People's Republic, and the GDR remained in the annals of history a truly democratic part of Germany. A separate conversation about the Communist Parties of Italy and France with their "Eurocommunism" as a precursor of the modern ideology of the European Union. Conclusion: Supporting the so-called communist and workers' parties was a waste of money for our people.
  20. Operator
    Operator 1 September 2021 15: 59
    0
    And to hell with them, "Eurocommunists" - sitting on the neck of Moscow and pulling finances for their existence.
  21. bk0010
    bk0010 1 September 2021 21: 45
    0
    A very strange article. There was an armed fascist revolt in Hungary, so the question
    The main question literally hung in the air - why are communists killing communists?

    off topic at all. Let me just remind you that Andropov's (the same ambassador to Hungary at that time) had his wife go crazy during the rebellion (she probably saw a lot). Therefore, when something similar began in Czechoslovakia, he did not hesitate to speak out for the earliest possible suppression of fermentation, until it began.
  22. Keer
    Keer 2 September 2021 01: 09
    0
    The international communist movement was experiencing a terrible ideological crisis. The theoretical reasoning of the Marxists instantly turned out to be powerless in the face of practice ...
    They simply did not know, or did not want to see, what was happening in Russia in the interval between the world wars. Communists are at war with communists for themselves, both within the party, and the collective farm, or even communal apartments. The dead are simply appointed non-communists, and all the business. Religious communist practice did not allow revision (in a good way) of the "Doctrine", which was increasingly moving away from life. And the age of "communism" in Russia became inevitably short.
  23. Keer
    Keer 2 September 2021 01: 26
    0
    Quote: tatra
    The Soviet communists have created a whole socialist system in the world, and they would have.
    And where is this nonet system? The roofing felts were one-handed, the whole project was initially crooked ...
  24. ABC-schutze
    ABC-schutze 2 September 2021 10: 53
    +2
    "... 1. In the current environment of analysts and orientalists, it is extremely fashionable to argue that Russia can once again become a great ideological force on a global scale, competing with both Western neo-Trotskyism and Islamic expansion - and this reasoning perfectly intersects with the topic of our today's conversation.
    2. This topic is not simple, very little-known, but extremely important - it concerns one of the pillars on which the international might and reputation of the USSR stood. --- "********************************************* ************************
    Now, a few words, in fact, to the distinguished author ...

    The appearance of this kind of "analytical" articles in electronic portals on the eve of the federal elections in Russia is completely understandable and natural. The influence of the communists on public consciousness in Russia has not yet been canceled, and respect for the USSR, among the people, is not weakening. For this, there is an obvious reason to "explain" to those who are still "delusional" into what "potential impasse" (both ideological and economic ...) they were allegedly led, despite the "temporary" successes of communist state building ...

    For sim ...

    1. Firstly, it is ridiculous to put in the same row, in the context of "competition" on the world ideological clearing, such currents and creeds as "neo-Trotskyism" and Islam.

    The phrase, by the author, as such, sounds beautiful, but, sorry, conceptually illiterate ...

    For the aforementioned "neo-Trotskyism" was and will be, the fashionable amusement of a part of the armchair-sofa intellectuals (including those from the academic environment) and the poorly educated, but "motor-active" part of the street marginalized.

    Despite the "loud cries" and bright slogans of his adherents, he never "pulled" and will not "pull" on the status of the aforementioned "world" movement ...

    Islam, for centuries, indeed, is one of the world's religions.
    But it, just as a religion, "competes" with ANY materialistic worldview, and, in addition, with other religions influential in the world, much more like the mentioned "neo-Trotskyism", the same Christianity or paganism, or the teachings of Buddhism, Hinduism and Confucianism ...

    2. This topic is artificial, and it is in the context of "importance", as they say, "sucked from the finger" ...

    The pillar of the international power and reputation of the USSR was not "communist ideology" at all, but its economy and politics. Both internal and external.

    And practically created by the Soviet government, the unique potential of self-sufficiency of the Soviet state.

    Communist ideology (scientific communism), precisely as a completely progressive and competitive scientific form of social consciousness, ensured the formation, preservation and development of the social intellectual potential (both spiritual and scientific and technical) of the Soviet state and organized, continuous counteraction, constantly attacking ANY society individual philistine quagmire.

    That, of course, did not exclude, even presupposed, reliance on this ideology during "showdowns" in external opponents. But in no way did this instrument become a "pillar" of the international might of the Soviet state. One of the complementary components, yes ... "Pillar", no ...

    Move on ...

    "Namely: the pillar of the world revolution and the advancement of the idea of ​​communism, which made it possible to spread Moscow's influence even in countries completely unfriendly to us."
    ************************************************** *******************************
    There is reason to believe that the author has forgotten that the aforementioned "ideas of communism" gained wide influence in the world and in its MAIN part - Europe, where world politics had been pursued for centuries, long before the formation of the Soviet state.

    In any case, the "classics" with their current and scientific analytics, the "Manifesto ...", and the creation of the international Communist International, successfully spread their "harmful fabrications" precisely in the "unfriendly" states, that is, imperialist - capitalist.

    And, alas, the citizens of the capitalists never found ANY effective, namely IDEOLOGICAL "instrument" of countering communist ideas ...

    And social tranquility, in their own clearing, had to be ensured, not at all on the path of ideological competition, but by "clenching their teeth" and corny donating part of their personal or corporate profits to "social programs" for those who are still busy with work - rationing of slave, day, vacation , pensions, labor protection, etc. ... And a "minimum-sufficient" feeder for crowds of unemployed ...

    Alas, but even on the quasi-competitive paths of creating a "consumer society" by the capitalists, it was not possible to get away from SYSTEM crises. And it will not work ...

    And why, just scientifically explains the communist ideology. But he does this not in "types of competition", but due to the OBJECTIVE DEVELOPMENT of social scientific thought ...

    In the same way, as any science does not set itself the task of "competition" with religion, etc. But it sets the task of cognition. And how and for what purposes it is used, or how the "ruling" forces oppose it, is another matter ...
    1. A. Privalov
      A. Privalov 2 September 2021 15: 31
      0
      I, an old man, are much closer to my 70s than to my 60s. I, at one time, was taught by such Bison, who tightly sewn into the basis of teaching "the treasury of Marxist-Leninist science, the sharpest weapon of mastering Bolshevism" - "A short course in the history of the CPSU (b)" - a guide representing the official, verified by the Central Committee of the CPSU ( b) an interpretation of the main questions of the history of the CPSU (b) and Marxism-Leninism, which does not allow any arbitrary interpretation.
      You will not be spoiled with such! Mid 70s, no joke!
      Yes, wake me up today at 3 o'clock in the morning and ask what is Marxism-Leninism? I will answer, as in the MLF standings: "Marxism-Leninism is the only truly true scientific system of philosophical, economic, and sociopolitical views, integrating conceptual views, on knowledge and revolutionary transformation of the world, on the laws of social development, nature and human thinking, on class struggle and forms of transition to socialism (including the overthrow of capitalism) about the creative activities of workers directly involved in building a socialist and communist society. " In, how!

      The classics of Marxism-Leninism taught us that progressive socio-economic formations, as a result of the growth of the level of productive forces and the struggle of antagonistic classes, should replace the outdated ones. This theory worked fine. It was called “five-member” and, according to the number of formations, in accordance with the prevailing production relations and forms of ownership, was divided into:
      primitive communal;
      slaveholding;
      feudal;
      capitalist;
      communist.
      (In the five-member formational scheme, socialism was viewed as the first phase of the highest - communist - social formation.)

      Indeed, the primitive communal system was replaced by a slave-owning one. Spartacus could boldly lead his troops under the slogan "Long live feudalism - the bright future of mankind!", Because feudalism is more progressive than slavery, and so on.
      For the time being - for the time being, everything was in order. At the time of the parallel coexistence of the capitalist and socialist systems, the latter positioned itself as an alternative to capitalism, even was attractive and had followers all over the world. However, since the beginning of the 90s of the last century, this theory has been in a state of crisis, because theoretically capitalism should have been replaced by socialism, and then communism, but alas ...
      In other words, socialism rested in the Bose, communism was never born, and capitalism is doomed to perpetual decay, for there is no real replacement for it today. Dot. hi
      1. bk0010
        bk0010 2 September 2021 20: 47
        0
        Quote: A. Privalov
        Indeed, the primitive communal system was replaced by a slave-owning one.
        No. Not everywhere. You did not study well: you forgot about the "base and superstructure". The trick is that the basis for the primitive communal, slave-owning and feudal system is a subsistence economy. All these tunings have existed perfectly in parallel for centuries. But natural economy is incompatible with capitalism, capitalism needs to turn production into a commodity, otherwise it does not work, it does not grow. Therefore, capitalism has worn out all the other systems in 300 years.
        Quote: A. Privalov
        In other words, socialism rested in the Bose, communism was never born, and capitalism is doomed to perpetual decay, for there is no real replacement for it today. Dot.
        And what will capitalism do when real nanotechnologies are launched (assemblers and copiers, and not any kind of Chubais' stuff), when there are just a lot of products, or even everyone will have their own synthesizers, when products again cease to be a commodity? How many has been sitting on the welfer now?
        1. A. Privalov
          A. Privalov 2 September 2021 22: 22
          0
          Quote: bk0010
          No. Not everywhere. You did not study well: you forgot about the "base and superstructure".

          I studied well, but we're not going to disassemble here all the perturbations of socio-economic formations by the bones.
          Quote: bk0010
          And what will capitalism do when real nanotechnologies are launched (assemblers and copiers, and not any kind of chubais), when there are just a lot of products, or even everyone will have their own synthesizers, when products again cease to be a commodity?

          "It's a pity - to live in this wonderful time ..." (c) I will definitely not see this anymore. I hope you will see and learn everything in due time.

          Quote: bk0010
          How many has been sitting on the welfer now?

          What's the difference? Welfer is material aid to immigrants and the poor from the state. Although, this is a kind of socialist relic, but a socially necessary and useful thing, of course, with the right approach.
      2. ABC-schutze
        ABC-schutze 3 September 2021 10: 54
        +1
        "1. The classics of Marxism-Leninism taught us that progressive socio-economic formations, as a result of the growth of the level of productive forces and the struggle of antagonistic classes, should replace obsolete ...

        2. However, since the beginning of the 90s of the last century, this theory has been in a state of crisis, for theoretically capitalism should have been replaced by socialism, and then communism, but alas ... "
        *
        The classics of Marxism-Leninism, in contrast to their subsequent epigones of all stripes and levels, taught dialectics. And not only "us", but all others ...

        And for you personally, too, no one bothered to make sure of this. Moreover, the period of your studies, you were still far from 70 ...

        It was just a matter of business, to pick up the "Manifesto ..." and would not be too lazy to read not only its main text, but also Numerous prefaces written by the very classics, accompanying practically EVERY NEW edition (edition). Let's say, in one language or another ...

        So, the classics themselves, reminded that NOW, by the time the next edition was released, they would have changed a number of their initial statements. Due to changes in the environment. Which is completely objective and dialectical. And in no way is it a trivial tribute to the "conjuncture", I will already note. Not a "humanist" at all ...

        Progressive socio-economic formations are outdated and replace. So far, I have not seen any "mistakes" of the classics in this scientific statement of them. Moreover, I am ready to remind you that capitalism itself, at a certain stage of its development, was precisely the classics who attributed to the progressive social formations ... Duc, where did they "go wrong"? ..

        They never indicated any "specific dates" for replacing obsolete formations with progressive ones. And the ways of their leaving or "removing" from the historical scene too ...

        And it is not their fault that after Lenin and Stalin, who turned out to be capable of creatively and scientifically, to develop (and, as they say now "to actualize") their scientific doctrine, the work of its propaganda and bringing it into the mass consciousness was in the hands of mediocre and lazy epigones of semi-dogmatists. Including late Soviet ones. This is not the fault of Marxism. And the classics themselves too ...

        2. There will never be any "crisis" of Marxist theory in the world. Precisely because it is scientific and the validity of its principles and approaches has been proven by practice. But she does not indicate any "terms" (of which I remind you). This is for those so-called. Soviet "dissident" idiots and masses of ordinary people lazy before training, who, sitting on a sofa or in an office, "languished" for decades in anticipation of "replacing capitalism with communism." And the allegedly "promised" CPSU "communism" by the 80th year ...

        Mother's laziness, presumably, prevented the foolish "accusers" from reading the materials of the 22nd Congress, FROM THE BEGINNING, and not "from the place" where "ABM communism" ...

        But at the beginning, EVEN "under Khrushchev," a poorly educated chatterbox, it was clearly said that GROWTH OF WELFARE SHOULD BE PRECEDED BY INCREASING LABOR PRODUCTIVITY. That is, the Communist Party of the Soviet Union reminded of the NECESSARY BACKGROUND, that FIRST, it was NECESSARY to POOL. Moreover, EVERYONE, CONSTANTLY and ACTIVELY. Even in the presence of PEOPLE'S ownership of land, its subsoil and means of production, which provided a solid "social system" for EVERYONE. And only then, "to dream of a free freebie", which some "communists" allegedly "promised" to someone. But the man in the street and the "dissident", for the most part, sat down on a comfortable social program, and indulged in the "business of waiting" ...

        So if there were any problems in the theory of political economy of socialism (without quotation marks), then these are only the problems of finding incentives adequate to the principles of a socially humane social formation for ACTIVE and PRODUCTIVE SOCIAL labor. And it's all. And all the "rest", including the notorious "shortage of goods" (a completely normal phenomenon at 100%, REAL, the population's ability to pay and LOW prices) are banal TYPICAL tasks, not "problems". Problems solved on the banal and well-known to ANY economy ways of expanding commodity output. And here, again, I remind you that the economy of the USSR, unlike the US economy, did not develop at the expense of the "printing press". And the Soviet ruble was REALLY PROVIDED with gold plating. Those. unlike the same "green", it was not just cut paper, the obligations on which for DECADES, were "covered" by "certain" guarantees "of the US Federal Reserve System.

        Those. in the end, with the same "cut paper" ...

        The same circumstance that the capitalists, including those from the late Soviet and post-Soviet "remake" (now they are in power), abandoned the creative development of its provisions, is completely understandable and logical. But this does NOT indicate ANYTHING about the "collapse" or "crisis" of the theory ...

        Otherwise, Platoshkin, who is not rejecting this theory, but creatively and actively relying on it (which I personally learned only on the VO portal) would not have been grinding bunks in the Russian bullpen. And the CCP of the Celestial Empire would not rule its Empire with a rare efficiency and would not ensure its development ...

        "Short course" is a sensible thing. But more about him later ...
        1. A. Privalov
          A. Privalov 3 September 2021 11: 16
          0
          Well, to the first eternal question "Who is to blame?" you found the answer. These are mediocre and lazy epigones of semi-dogmatics, including late Soviet, and Soviet "dissident" idiots and masses of lazy people who were sitting on a couch or in an office for decades waiting for the "replacement of capitalism with communism", and fools "accusers" and citizens are capitalists, including those from the late Soviet and post-Soviet "remake" ...
          Now, it remains to answer the second - "What to do?".
          As I already wrote somewhere above, with great interest I will listen to your reasoned arguments about the prospects for the further development of immortal and true doctrine, as well as a story about its practical application on the ground, real ways of advancing modern society on the path to a bright communist future. hi
          1. ABC-schutze
            ABC-schutze 3 September 2021 12: 00
            +1
            I am not a humanist, but I will answer the first question raised by you unambiguously and briefly - FIRST of all - to restore Soviet power. It was the Soviet power, not the "USSR".

            The question of the necessity, and the expediency of restoring the latter, should and can be objectively resolved only AFTER the REAL, LEGAL and FIRM restoration of Soviet power. Particularly in Russia ...

            As well as the question of the further development of Marxist theory and its practical applications in the current conditions ...
            1. A. Privalov
              A. Privalov 3 September 2021 14: 33
              +1
              Quote: ABC-schütze
              I am not a humanist, but I will answer the first question raised by you unambiguously and briefly - FIRST of all - to restore Soviet power. It was the Soviet power, not the "USSR".

              The question of the necessity, and the expediency of restoring the latter, should and can be objectively resolved only AFTER the REAL, LEGAL and FIRM restoration of Soviet power. Particularly in Russia ...

              As well as the question of the further development of Marxist theory and its practical applications in the current conditions ...

              To restore Soviet power outside the government? Parallel to them?
              Are you going to emigrate, lead them from the underground?
              Who will allow you to do that? You don't know that such acts in the Russian Federation fall under a number of articles of the Criminal Code?
              Don't even start! Extremists were also recorded for less serious speeches and actions.
              You might be interested in this:
              1. ABC-schutze
                ABC-schutze 3 September 2021 22: 33
                0
                If it does not bother you, try to carefully read the "comments" of the counterpart to which you undertake to respond. Moreover, the "quotation marks" quotes vis-a-vis ...

                I have it written - "AFTER ..., LEGAL, ...".

                Duc, you, excuse me, where have I "outside the government bodies" honored to see? ..

                The legal path is the path of legitimate coming to power as a result of legal elections. Moreover, in Russia no "revolutionary situation" is even close to being discerned. As if about this marginals of all stripes "nodding" at the notorious "popular discontent", did not squeal. And all the constitutional mechanisms for such a legitimate coming to power, the same communists and "others like them" have been created ...

                It is another matter that it will take persistent and consistent decades to “plow” on this, in peaceful conditions and with the current economic and propaganda potential of the “ruling”, capable of “feeding” social discontent and not bringing the situation in the country to a real crisis and collapse. ... And this is exactly what you need to tune in to ...

                And not "across the street" into the power to "jump" ...

                Moreover, in an atmosphere when you and the layman will be, from every swearing speaker and through all state channels, continuously and with "showing pictures", to convince that a devotee in the USSR 7
                the ruling elite "communism" allegedly "exhausted itself" ...

                And the Bolsheviks here, in a sense, it was easier. There and then, it was the ruling, for a couple of TEN YEARS, the situation in the Empire, stupid and CONSEQUENTLY (in full accordance with the Marxist theory) led to an irreversible crisis. And they themselves, in fact, destroyed the Empire ...

                And the Bolshevik Marxists turned out to be the only real force capable of collecting and developing it. Already in the status of the Red Empire, that is, Soviet power and the USSR. The USSR is a form of existence of Soviet power. And Soviet power is the essence ... So, any "restoration of the USSR", by definition, first the restoration of Soviet power in the country presupposes ...

                And nothing else ...
                1. A. Privalov
                  A. Privalov 4 September 2021 05: 01
                  +1
                  Quote: ABC-schütze
                  And nothing else ...

                  Well, in that case, I wish you every success on the very long journey towards a new socialist revolution.
                  Since the prerequisites for it today are not enough, "you will have to stubbornly and consistently for more than a dozen years ... And this is exactly what you need to tune in to ..."
                  "Moreover, in Russia no" revolutionary situation "is even close to being seen." ...

                  I remember the old joke:
                  “Comrades! The workers 'and peasants' revolution, the need for which the Bolsheviks spoke all the time, Ku-ku, ku-ku, ku-ku ... "
                  hi
                  1. ABC-schutze
                    ABC-schutze 6 September 2021 11: 10
                    0
                    Thank you for the kind words. I have nowhere to rush ...

                    Moreover, I have repeatedly reminded that the revolutionary situation, to the extent of its mediocrity, is created by the ruling class, and not by the "revolutionaries" ...

                    The revolutionaries (or those who become such), to the extent of their readiness and ability, use this "service" of the ruling. Moreover, I emphasize once again, they use it not only in their own interests, but also in the interests of FURTHER SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT. As for the British and French "bourgeois", it was noted by the classics ...

                    In the Russian empire, it was the Bolshevik Marxists, and not their antagonists, who turned out to be the most capable, ready to come to power, and socially progressive in the context of further state building. Including from the public behind the February coup.

                    What exactly in the Russian Empire during the reign of the incompetent Nicholas No. 2 was most clearly manifested ...


                    But, for now, I can only state that what you mentioned: "Ku-ku, ku-ku, ku-ku ..." came to your introductory thesis about the mythical "collapse" of Marxist theory (and the foundation of Soviet ideology built on it).

                    Due to the banal, as expected, lack of distinct, objective argumentation in favor of this, purely propaganda in the current Russian conditions, but completely understandable anti-Soviet statement ...

                    Alas, scientific theories do not lose their significance, only from the fact that someone, and by virtue of the banal political conjuncture, is "disappointed" in them or "no longer relies on them" ...

                    And this is not at all an anecdote ...
  25. Spagis Vv
    Spagis Vv 14 September 2021 11: 07
    0
    The reason for these events is very simple. The communists, ruled by blunt "leaders" Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Gorbachev, were doing nonsense, instead of analyzing the real state of affairs.
  26. ivan2022
    ivan2022 19 September 2021 17: 37
    0
    "The collapse of communism on a global scale" did not work out. And Lenin at one time believed that events in Russia would develop as an alternation of breakthroughs and periods of reaction. This is the usual course of changing economic orders.
  27. Eug
    Eug 3 November 2021 10: 55
    0
    The USSR showed the world a successful alternative socio-economic development path, and it is not surprising that this path found both sane and opportunistic supporters in capitalist and developing countries. But after Stalin's death, everything disappeared ...
  28. ivan2022
    ivan2022 8 November 2021 21: 18
    0
    The lamentations of a serf about: "Oh, sir, to pout on the mind!"

    It’s even strange .. They profiled their workers' party, they could not nominate reasonable leaders from the huge people - they are looking for the guilty .... In what? The fact that 18 million communists did not cope with the group of adventurers and traitors?

    Marxism is a "formidable weapon", an instrument in the hands of the proletarians, who cut off their own testicles .... It's too late to dance ritual dances ....: "But we thought that the chainsaw was cutting itself ..."
  29. tovarich-andrey.62goncharov
    tovarich-andrey.62goncharov 28 November 2021 16: 49
    0
    Yes, pre-disarmed ... About the role of personality in history ... After Khrushch, there was a saying about Lyonya - there is history, there is no personality ... And why, I wonder, did the Soviet Union collapse? ... The people just stopped believing these creatures with "party card" and a string bag in his bosom.