Military Review

And what can we do in modern Russia?

437

The creation of this material was prompted by the opinion of Sergei Marzhetsky on one of our resources, who, in a rather arrogant style, explained to “all these sectarians” how much Russia needs four aircraft carriers tomorrow. Without which we simply cannot live, since the Russian naval strike group simply must necessarily clash with the American AUG in the battle.


In general, it makes no sense to evaluate the entire article, there is nothing new in essence, but there is one point that was worth mentioning. The article is replete with “we can,” “we must,” “we can do it,” and all that stuff in an uncertain future tense. And now we will talk about this "we can".

So we can ...

Well, for starters, it is worth noting that we can repair and bring to condition the old "Admiral Kuznetsov". The ship is only 30 years old, he still has to serve and serve. And to threaten two dozen of the same old MiG-29K air groups from the Nimitz. It's funny, of course, but true. Can. We have an aircraft-carrying ship that can go out on an equal footing against ten US aircraft carriers.


But it is impossible to repair "Kuznetsov", because the dock has sunk, which for some reason we cannot raise. And for some reason the dry dock is not ready either. In general, everything is as always, the terms are "shifted to the right" and one can only guess how much they will be shifted.

What is the essence? In fact, we have an old Soviet-built ship, which required an old Soviet-built dock for repair, which the Northern Fleet safely drowned and was unable to raise. This is a very optimistic alignment, once again proving how much we need aircraft carriers to fight the Americans.

But for this you need nothing at all: a plant (instead of Nikolaev, where TAVKRs were built), docks for maintenance, and other infrastructure. Yes, I read all these arguments that we have where to build, except for laughter, they do not cause anything else. Because they also abound in vague "if we build", "we just need ..." and so on.

The Soviet aircraft carriers essentially remained there, in Ukraine. At Ukrainian enterprises, which have become the same integral part stories, as well as aircraft carriers of a non-existent country. All these conversations that “You can build in workshop No. 55 at Sevmash, you just need to alter it a little ...” - this is nonsense, because Sevmash builds submarines there.

Not, of course, if we are satisfied with the pace of "one ship in 15 years" ... That is not a question.

Moving on.

"We need new planes." Well, yes, we do. Marzhetsky speaks about two models at once. The recently presented Su-75 and the necromantic dances of the Yakovlev Design Bureau around the Yak-141.

Concerning the Su-75, it is worth talking only when the plane starts flying and shows its real, not advertising potential. That is, how much he can even become deck. But until this moment, it will still take about the same amount of time as before the “Admiral Kuznetsov” turns into a normal ship.


As for the project with the Yak-141, this is generally ridiculous. To squeeze something out of a Soviet development forty years ago ... Yes, this machine was outdated on paper twenty years ago. Yes, the Americans completely failed to cope with the implementation of the F-22, bought some of the developments on the Yak-141 and as a result have something very similar to a normal aircraft. That is, the F-35.


But sorry, these are Americans. With their potential in terms of manufacturing firms and budget. Probably, it is not worth comparing the capabilities of the same Boeing and Yakovlev. Yakovlev showed all its capabilities when it could not bring the MS-21 to mass production. The lack of imported components and the complete inability to replace them prevented it.


And, by the way, at Yakovlev itself they openly say that the MS-21 is nothing more than a deep modernization of the Yak-42, which has been flying since the 70s of the last century. Interestingly, the Yak-42 still flies in several small airlines, but the MS-21 does not.

Total: new strike aircraft naval aviation until it shines. The MiG-29K is the day before yesterday, but unlike the Su-33, it can at least rise not with half the load. Which, however, does not make him a dangerous opponent for the F-35 and F / A-18.

Aircraft AWACS. It also does not exist and is not expected, since there was no such carrier-based aircraft in the USSR. Hence, there is even nothing to copy. Yes, Marzhetsky points out that we have Ka-31 helicopters that could ... Yes, they cannot replace the plane. Wrong speed, wrong altitude, wrong range. And if you look at the number of Ka-31s in the Russian fleet, it is simply awful. As many as 2 (TWO).


But there are also problems with them, about which a little below.

The USSR also did not have deck-mounted electronic warfare aircraft, like the United States had. Accordingly, Russia has nowhere to take them. Accordingly, it is necessary to design from scratch.

And one more machine, without which it will be difficult to carry out all operations in distant seas. This is a carrier-based transport aircraft capable of delivering all necessary and urgent cargoes on board the so-called Russian aircraft carrier. Engines and spare parts for aircraft, out-of-order equipment, flight personnel, but you never know what is needed on a campaign?

There was no carrier-based transport aircraft in the USSR either. So there is nothing to copy from.

In general, Marzhetsky had a very sensible idea in the article. Also from the realm of fantasy, but sensible. This is the Yak-44.

And what can we do in modern Russia?

Marzhetsky suggests pulling out all the developments on the Yak-44 from the archives and finishing the plane. So it seems that it is possible to solve the problem of the AWACS aircraft, and the electronic warfare, and the transport aircraft.

On the one hand, yes, you can. In theory. On the other hand, in practice, the aircraft was developed in the 70s of the last century, in the USSR. And for him today, for example, there is no engine. Because the Zaporozhye D-27, alas, is no longer available to us.

And I am sure that in many other particulars, everything is about the same. And it is worth remembering that the Yak-44 did not go further than the plywood model.

It is very easy to take and shout loudly: give us aircraft carriers! We'll pick ... Well, or with a high degree of probability ... In short, shiver, USA! Russians are coming!

But in fact, when you begin to understand what is really happening, not with a hooray shout, but with your mind, you understand that from such populism and hurray-patriotic cries there is only harm. Because everything is very smooth on paper, but in reality ...

But in fact, like this: the United States has 10 aircraft carriers, which are located about 1000 planes and helicopters.


We have 0,4 aircraft carrier, which may be able to carry 50 aircraft in the future. If it gets repaired after all.


The Americans have an F / A-18 attack aircraft that can be used both as a fighter-bomber and as an attack aircraft.


We have the MiG-29K, a fighter that can be used as a strike aircraft with about the same efficiency.


There is also the Su-33, which takes off badly and sits even worse, but which takes more weapons in theory. So - almost parity.

The Americans have deck-based AWACS aircraft that will provide the Americans with early detection of everything flying and sailing.


We do not have such an aircraft and is not in the plans.

The Americans have electronic warfare aircraft, the importance of which on the battlefield is very important. We don't have such planes.


Grumman EA-6 "Prowler"

The Americans have transport planes capable of carrying any urgent cargo on board an aircraft carrier.

Plus, there are now modified Ospreys, which will be able to deliver aircraft engines to aircraft carriers if necessary. We have neither the first nor the second.

And the Americans have aircraft carrier escort ships that can protect them from many problems. And the number of destroyers alone is several times greater than the number of combat-ready Russian ships.

It is with great regret that we can state the fact that many people who write today simply do not understand the essence of things. And that even a hypothetical conflict at sea is a rather complex thing, consisting of many components.

Of course, it is very easy to fight on paper, as Marzhetsky does. Indeed, after all, the Americans will put up one AUG against our KUG, well, how can it be otherwise, we have a knightly tournament, not a war ...

But I would send three groups and the Russian group would be left with water bubbles. But in fact, if you look at what advantage the Americans prefer to fight, they will send four times as many ships to a heap of old Soviet junk. And still they will sink. Well, they are used to fighting, by numbers. I am not inventing anything, history keeps everything.

So Mr. Marzhetsky, although on paper, is rather mediocre enough to send Russian citizens to death. Well, he doesn't like them, apparently.

But I can’t resist, I’ll give you a quote.

“But what if we finish the Soviet carrier-based AWACS aircraft Yak-44, which could take off from the deck of the“ Admiral ”, albeit half underfuel? And what if, on the basis of the Mi-31, we make a tiltrotor AWACS that can take off and land on TAVRK and UDC of project 22390 and also be able to give target designation to our Zircons, Onyxes and Caliber? But what if the announced plans for the revival of the Yak-141 SCVVP are implemented and a dozen of such aircraft are placed on each UDC, giving it to help the "Admiral Kuznetsov"? Then the vertical wing will be able to focus on the anti-aircraft cover of the domestic AUG, freeing up additional fighters to fight American aircraft and even for a retaliatory missile attack on the Nimitz.

But what if you don't bother and immediately make a positron blaster, install it on the Petrel and plant it all over the United States? Or a neutron blaster, install it on the Poseidon and shoot American ships from under the water?

Ideas, in my opinion, are no worse than those listed above. However, the Internet today is filled with such "analytical" fabrications. It's sad, but there is nothing you can do about it.

However, let's think about this: really, if Kuznetsov is suddenly repaired, if docks and factories for the construction of new aircraft carriers are built, what will happen to what is on the decks?

And there are only two options: either start dancing necromancers over Soviet developments 40 years ago, or ...

In general, we do not have so much in the assets of the second part. Carrier-based fighter from the Su-57. I would like to. Some experts, however, very carefully, say that theoretically there is such a possibility. And this is encouraging, because the MiG-29K is everything. It is only Hindus who can exploit it, because it is more difficult for them to trust the technique, it is simply not worth it. They break.

Regarding the Su-75, I repeat that "when it flies, then we'll talk." So far, this is a mockup, which means that any conversations are premature.

Modification of the Yak-141 is most likely possible. In theory. It's hard to say how in practice. After all, you will have to change the entire "stuffing" of the aircraft, and this is not an easy task.

But everything else based on the Yak-44 is fantastic. There was no plane, there was a model. That is - consider, it is necessary to create from scratch. The recent example of the Il-112V is impressive exactly the opposite. If the Ilyushin Design Bureau was unable to make an airplane in 20 years, then the Yakovlev Design Bureau has, perhaps, even less chances.

Today, the Russian Armed Forces use 90% of the weapons that were created by Soviet engineers. And this applies to everything: aircraft, tanks, artillery, ships. There is nothing shameful in this, the same "Borey" began to be created in the 80s to replace the "Sharks" and in the end went into series, only benefiting from the use of the latest technologies.

But what to do with what was not created in the USSR? Including the carrier-based aircraft in question? The construction of an aircraft carrier in general is doubtful, but its functioning with an inadequate grouping of aircraft on board is even more doubtful.

And one more problem. Many aircraft duties on our ships have been performed by helicopters since Soviet times. And today they continue to carry it. All the same Ka-27, Ka-29 and Ka-31. Helicopters come from the 70s of the last century, which, nevertheless, continue to serve. On all the same Ukrainian-made TV3-117 engines, which are supposed to replace TV7-117, but with which not everything is smooth either.

And then tiltrotors from Mi-31 ... It's good when you have a rich imagination. But what to do if hands have not yet reached the tiltrotor, because there are many other problems?

And here a very sensitive question arises. Yes, of course, 3 or 4 aircraft carriers for the Russian fleet - perhaps they are needed as air. Perhaps, without them, the Russian fleet will lose the very battle that the supporters of the aircraft carriers are so fiercely talking about. Perhaps.

But what to do with the problems mentioned above? Where to get everything you need to equip normal air groups if these developments were not carried out in Soviet times? And how effective will such an air group be in general in the event of a military collision?
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  1. antivirus
    antivirus 29 August 2021 04: 18
    +23
    it is good when there is a fantasy .. everything is ahead ... and carrying feet forward ... and victories ... and world domination.

    what about Western bankers who are against the Russian hegemon?
    1. Ilya-spb
      Ilya-spb 29 August 2021 06: 34
      0
      Remembered! We made an aircraft carrier for the Indians! Redesigned, really ... But that means - there is experience?
      1. URAL72
        URAL72 29 August 2021 10: 30
        -8
        It is with great regret that one can state the fact that many people who write today simply do not understand the essence of things. "

        I agree with the author, but this fully applies to himself. After reading this libel, persistent negative associations arise to his personality. I am not a supporter of aircraft carriers, but not because we are a village, but because it is expensive. The fact that aircraft carriers are needed is a fact, but not for a war with the United States, but for the ability to project force in any region, otherwise we are not a superpower and cannot count on the loyalty of potential allies because we cannot cover them. But aircraft carriers alone are not enough for this, so at this stage it is simply not up to them. By the way, the UDC under construction is a way out, a symbiosis of amphibious and aircraft-carrying capabilities. For the first time, that's what you need. We need economic growth and a revival of science. This symbiosis will allow us to return to its former greatness. But this takes time.
        1. JD1979
          JD1979 29 August 2021 11: 31
          +43
          Something I did not understand the meaning of your Psaquil)) What is the author wrong? In that he does not want to put the cart in front of the horse as some do? UDC .... Exit ... yeah exit to nowhere. Replaced the awl with soap. Neither the aircraft carrier nor the UDC have a clear application strategy. I just want it and that's it. And the UDC itself, like Avik, without the appropriate aircraft, is simply an expensive trough, as well as without escort - not a single sane destroyer-cruiser URO is available and is not expected.
          1. URAL72
            URAL72 29 August 2021 12: 12
            -15
            The author is wrong that he himself does not know what he is writing about - he does not own the topic. Why is Kuznetsov obsolete to him? Is this after the upgrade? There is no strategy ... Well, yes, you were not informed. But learn to read at least, - I outlined the strategy in the commentary. What equipment do we have for the UDC? There is even plenty to choose from. Escort? Does it mean that BDK to Syria does not need escort, but UDC is required? I repeat once again - put on your glasses and re-read my comment. It says there - the aircraft carrier will not help us against the United States, as well as the UDC, but there are many other tasks. One - we are already deciding in Syria, perhaps Libya is on its way, but it is better to act there together with Egypt. In Libya, the coast is everything. Like many other interesting countries. UDC is enough for her, the rest will be done by Egypt and PMCs. The one who has no mind has no strategy. I personally see the need for UDC, moreover, an acute one. Don't write to me - I don't like to chew and put in my mouth. Better study the topic.
            1. Konnick
              Konnick 29 August 2021 12: 56
              +10
              .
              Don't write to me - I don't like to chew in my mouth lie down... Better study the topic.

              The level of the commentator is appropriate. There is no such word in the Russian language to lie.
              1. URAL72
                URAL72 29 August 2021 13: 06
                +7
                If you put it further, you will take it closer. Is this not a Russian proverb? And yes, I am from Kherson, although for the last 8 years I have been serving the people of the DPR. But I seem to know the Russian language better than you, because even anachronistic words need to be known, in some regions of Russia they are used.
                1. Konnick
                  Konnick 29 August 2021 13: 08
                  -10
                  I am from Kherson, although for the last 8 years I have served the people of the DPR

                  The word FALSE is not used separately, only with pretexts. The offended mentality is felt.
                  1. Motorist
                    Motorist 29 August 2021 14: 31
                    +21
                    Quote: Konnick
                    The word FALSE is not used separately, only with prepositions.

                    With prefixes.

                    There are some expressions where, with the replacement of the word, the semantic stress sags. For example, about a bolt: "put" is one time, "lay down" is constant. "Putting the bolt" - IMHO - does not sound.

                    And Ural-72 is right - "in the regions" you can hear a lot of things that are not in textbooks and dictionaries, and this is also Great and Mighty! hi
                    1. Konnick
                      Konnick 29 August 2021 14: 57
                      -2
                      With prefixes.

                      Of course. With pretexts, it's me on emotions. I won't do it anymore.
                      1. Civil
                        Civil 30 August 2021 08: 08
                        +12
                        You can argue until you blue in the face - but there is no money. On this point, comrades and gentlemen disagree.
                    2. Oleg Zorin
                      Oleg Zorin 1 September 2021 23: 16
                      +2
                      There are a lot of things in the regions. For example, she sat down (sat down) and woke up (woke up). And then there is "fenya" - a Russian criminal argo. But this is not at all literary Russian.
                      1. Motorist
                        Motorist 1 September 2021 23: 35
                        0
                        Quote: Oleg Zorin
                        But this is not at all literary Russian.

                        And in Moscow they still choke on "shawarma"! laughing And in the south, when they go to the store and to the market, they "buy up".

                        Sailors - they don't swear at all, they talk to them ...

                        Not everyone can be a writer - not everyone can do it ...
                      2. Oleg Zorin
                        Oleg Zorin 9 September 2021 18: 46
                        +1
                        Not all people practice personal hygiene - but everyone should strive for this. wink
                  2. sniperino
                    sniperino 29 August 2021 17: 21
                    +1
                    Quote: Konnick
                    only with pretexts
                    With prefixes. And so everything is correct: put in place and put in place. Because of what the gram-dissidents raised the noise, it is not clear.
                2. TANKISTONE
                  TANKISTONE 1 September 2021 14: 39
                  +3
                  URAL72 (Oleg) ... I'm from Kherson ...
                  In Russian there is no such word, there is "you will not fall asleep" ... wink Save your nerves, comrade, there is not enough for everyone.
              2. Navigator
                Navigator 29 August 2021 17: 12
                +8
                "The level of the commentator is appropriate. There is no such word in the Russian language to lay down." How is it that there is no such word? And the "lie down" command saved many lives. And how do you say: "I put down the shovel" or "I put down the shovel"? The whole country speaks this word, but you do not. You probably like the words "shopping", "outsourcing", "life hack" more.
                1. Konnick
                  Konnick 29 August 2021 17: 53
                  -4
                  "How is it that there is no such word?

                  There is a word, but it is used only with prefixes
                2. The comment was deleted.
            2. Doctor
              Doctor 29 August 2021 13: 06
              +8
              There is no strategy ... Well, yes, you were not informed.

              There is a strategy, but it does not take into account modern realities.

              They are trying to build a "Gorshkov fleet" with a shrinking economy, defending the scientific and technological revolution for 40 years, and a fundamentally different foreign policy situation.
              Because there is nothing else in the cadets' notes of admirals, and it’s scary to think for ourselves, and they are not accustomed to it.

              30 modern, low-noise submarines with cruise missiles with special warheads on board will force the Americans to strain 70% of their fleet to counter them.

              We CAN build them instead of show-offs, the construction of all that unnecessary junk and senseless reanimation of rusty iron, which is now being carried out.
              1. URAL72
                URAL72 29 August 2021 13: 28
                -2
                As I understand it, not only one admiral is not suitable for you. You shouldn't be like that, there are also worthy people. In addition, a caperang will never become an admiral - you need to finish your studies, and not everyone can do that. 30 MCSPL? But these are only 2 fleets, and what to do with the rest? Disband? Now the fleet is being built to have a trained personnel, and to support shipbuilding, qualified personnel of factories and design bureaus, research institutes. If you build only nuclear submarines, then only 2 factories will remain. Long storytelling, think about your youthful maximalism.
                1. Doctor
                  Doctor 29 August 2021 15: 38
                  -3
                  As I understand it, not only one admiral is not suitable for you. You shouldn't be like that, there are also worthy people. In addition, the caperang will never become an admiral - you need to finish your studies, and not everyone can do that.

                  Almost all of them are worthy.
                  But they live according to the lecturers' notes, which were dictated by Gorshkov.
                  You need either a genius with character, or a big war that will break stereotypes.

                  Sailboats also once rested against battleships, and after the war we were driven by a series of 68-bis and other cannons.
                  It took Khrushchev's intervention to unroll the brains.

                  But all the same, the first aircraft carrier was launched already in 1975, and then it was neutered.
                  33 years after Midway. lol
                  1. Serg65
                    Serg65 30 August 2021 10: 10
                    +1
                    Quote: Arzt
                    after the war, we drove the 68-bis series and other cannons.

                    Here it is necessary to clarify who drove? Well, and the degree of fault of the fleet and admirals in particular in this race?
                    1. Doctor
                      Doctor 30 August 2021 11: 11
                      -2
                      Here it is necessary to clarify who drove? Well, and the degree of fault of the fleet and admirals in particular in this race?

                      Industry.
                      At the direction of Comrade Stalin at the suggestion of the admirals.

                      He also planned battleships ... wink
                      1. Serg65
                        Serg65 30 August 2021 11: 19
                        +1
                        Quote: Arzt
                        At the direction of Comrade Stalin at the suggestion of the admirals.

                        The admirals asked for something completely different, and the old projects worked out by the industry were driven off to them, as you correctly noted with the suggestion of Stalin and .... comrades Nosenko and Malyshev, who stood up for old projects with their bosom! Admirals ... admirals here are number 13, stand still with your eyes on the rollout and don't forget to wipe the sweat from your forehead! Especially after the execution of Kuznetsov and company!
                2. Doctor
                  Doctor 29 August 2021 16: 00
                  -8
                  30 MCSPL? But these are only 2 fleets, and what to do with the rest? Disband?

                  It's about strategy.
                  We need to neutralize the US and NATO fleets.
                  What to invest in?

                  In SSBNs, which, taking into account KOH and other, will work 15% of silos, and which themselves need to be protected, which requires a separate fleet?

                  In the UDC, which were created following the results of the Vietnam War, in order to protect the mother ship from the fire of coastal cannon artillery?
                  And for a country with missile weapons, aviation, and modern submarines, they are just big floating sheds full of equipment, people and command.

                  In RTOs and corvettes, which, with excitement more than 4 points, begin to fight for survivability?

                  The radar frigates of the late 70s, which Arleigh Burke is one tooth, not to mention AB?

                  MAPL only. New low-noise project, large batch. We know how to build, we have weapons.

                  The Germans in the Second World War with some submarines almost blockaded England. And if they had not built the Bismarcks and more, then they would have blocked.
                  And if you think about what it cost the allies to break this blockade ... wink

                  In short, it is a strategy of containment with minimal forces.
                  10 MAPLs in the Atlantic and 10 in Tikhiy on a permanent base, and the states will not have time to land in Kamchatka and Murmansk. soldier
                  1. your1970
                    your1970 29 August 2021 16: 24
                    +7
                    Quote: Arzt
                    states will not have time to land in Kamchatka and Murmansk.

                    Well, let's say they landed and we didn't even blast through the United States ... Let's say ..
                    And then what ?? ¿? The purpose of the landing? See how their infantry is being destroyed?
                    But even God bless him, they are not touched at all
                    What is the purpose? They did not pull the occupation of Afghanistan - Russia is much more ...
                    1. Doctor
                      Doctor 29 August 2021 16: 43
                      -5
                      Well, let's say they landed and we didn't even blast through the United States ... Let's say ..
                      And then what ?? ¿? The purpose of the landing? See how their infantry is being destroyed?
                      But even God bless him, they are not touched at all
                      What is the purpose? They did not pull the occupation of Afghanistan - Russia is much more ...

                      It's all right strategically. Loss of Kamchatka (temporary wink ), and indeed the entire Far East does not mean defeat in the war for Russia.

                      But politically, we will already have the right to fuck. angry
                    2. Serg65
                      Serg65 30 August 2021 10: 12
                      +2
                      Quote: your1970
                      The purpose of the landing?

                      laughing Excursion to the valley of geysers !!!!
                  2. sova_74
                    sova_74 30 September 2021 13: 14
                    0
                    Do you remember how Doenitz's gallant venture with submarines ended? As soon as the Allies learned how to fight submarines, starting to use at that time the latest hydroacoustics and aviation for patrolling and escorting convoys? That's right, the collapse of the whole idea, this will work if the enemy is not an experienced beginner, like the allies were in the first year of the war. Since 1941, they began to displace the German submarines from the theater of operations, and the Americans are far from novices in military operations on land and at sea. I think you are aware that the aviation in the II MV sank more submarines at times than the destroyers-frigates-corvettes-minesweepers and others combined , from shipboard - 329, in combined attacks - 46
                    Source: http://aviarmor.net/pobeda-aviacii-nad-podlodkami-vo-vtoroj-mirovoj-vojne/). What makes you think that the enemy has no means of detecting nuclear submarines. I will give you an example of just one case in which the Americans made it clear in 2018 that all our submarines had been under a hood for a long time, this was not 20 or 40 years ago when they collided with each other trying to track down each other. Read the article, and I think your idea about building 10 MPSS for the Atlantic and 10 for the Pacific Ocean will disappear by itself. And since the network of our foreign intelligence is practically absent, we can only remotely guess what progress the Americans have made ... So 20 submarines will be destroyed within one or two hours by submarine aircraft from aircraft carriers. Read for reference. [Media = https: //newizv.ru/news/tech/30-10-2018/skandal-veka-amerikantsy-nauchilis-videt-nashi-podvodnye-lodki]
                    1. Doctor
                      Doctor 30 September 2021 14: 34
                      0
                      Do you remember how Doenitz's gallant venture with submarines ended?

                      I remember. A little more and Great Britain would be on its knees. Hitler simply did not need to declare war on the United States, and the money should have been spent on submarines, not battleships. Which is what I suggest.

                      I will give you an example of just one case in which the Americans made it clear in 2018 that all our submarines had been under a hood for a long time, this was not 20 or 40 years ago when they collided with each other trying to track down each other. Read the article, and I think your idea about building 10 MPSS for the Atlantic and 10 for the Pacific Ocean will disappear by itself.

                      Was reading. And not only this one. I agree with many things.
                      But.
                      We are talking about the maximum effect for the minimum money.
                      And at the same time, we proceed from the concrete real current situation.

                      Compare the submarine worth a billion and the NK for the same money. Which is easier to detect and destroy?
                      Their AUG will destroy any of our surface groups. And we simply cannot build AV.

                      And we can do the boats. There is everything you need for this. 30 boats - 30 billion in 10 years. It is quite capable of both economically and technologically. And in order to neutralize them, the Americans will have to try very hard, even taking into account their means of detection.love
                3. Doctor
                  Doctor 29 August 2021 16: 04
                  +7
                  Now the fleet is being built to have a trained personnel, and to support shipbuilding, qualified personnel of factories and design bureaus, research institutes.

                  This requires specialized training ships. The most sensible investment, will be relevant in 50 years.
                  Every officer of the Russian Navy must complete his training at the school with AIR LIGHT!

                  And let the factories build for the time being fishing, passenger, cargo and auxiliary.
                  And then some Greeks have a fleet several times larger than ours. winked
                  1. alch3mist
                    alch3mist 30 August 2021 00: 01
                    +2
                    This requires specialized training ships. The most sensible investment, will be relevant in 50 years.
                    Every officer of the Russian Navy must complete his training at the school with AIR LIGHT!

                    And let the factories build for the time being fishing, passenger, cargo and auxiliary.
                    And then some Greeks have a fleet several times larger than ours.

                    The most sensible post in this thread. And how expressively the minuses stick out on it! The shitty squad is working.
                    1. Serg65
                      Serg65 30 August 2021 10: 16
                      +1
                      Quote: alch3mist
                      The most sensible post in this thread.

                      What is the sensibility? The fact that the VVMU trains officers who will spend their entire sea life on merchant ships? And on the fig goat button accordion? Then remove the military schools and add one year to the civilian sailors to study naval tactics!
                      1. Doctor
                        Doctor 30 August 2021 11: 16
                        -2
                        What is the sensibility? The fact that the VVMU trains officers who will spend their entire sea life on merchant ships? And on the fig goat button accordion? Then remove the military schools and add one year to the civilian sailors to study naval tactics!

                        We are talking about priorities for the next 20 years.
                        Yes, so far mostly the submarine fleet.

                        When Raeder was building 1000 submarines, his last concern was that officers would forget how to swim overhead.
              2. Terran ghost
                Terran ghost 30 August 2021 10: 38
                -3
                30 modern, low-noise MAPLs with cruise missiles with special warheads on board

                There is only one "small but" - if sea-based cruise missiles with nuclear warheads appear in service with the Russian Navy, then very soon they will also appear in service with the US and Chinese navies.
                Although on the other hand ... here geography plays an essential role in our favor. Indeed, most of the main economic centers in China and many of the main centers of the US economy are located relatively close to the coasts of the respective countries, if not on the coast itself. Therefore, relatively small (and therefore inexpensive) submarines with cruise missiles with nuclear warheads look in this case as a very interesting deterrent (due to the possibility of delivering a guaranteed retaliatory strike against a full-scale military aggression).
                PS: Here is the point to clarify. The purpose of containment should not be cannibalistic genocidal plans "let's destroy the entire population", but only inflicting such damage on a potential aggressor, which will at times override any rational benefits from full-scale military aggression. The destruction of key economic (financial and industrial) centers is just that, "forcibly (and forever) withdrawing the country that has committed military aggression from among the great powers."
                The downside, alas, is the possibility of an "asymmetric response" - in the form of China's deployment of MRBM launchers on the northern borders of China, and the United States - launchers of land-based cruise missiles with nuclear warheads on the territory of the new member countries of the NATO military bloc (now there are missile launchers long-range surface-to-surface is not deployed due to agreements reached in the second half of the 1990s - early 2000s).
                1. Doctor
                  Doctor 30 August 2021 11: 07
                  0
                  Indeed, most of the main economic centers in China and many of the main centers of the US economy are located relatively close to the coasts of the respective countries, if not on the coast itself. Therefore, relatively small (and therefore inexpensive) submarines with cruise missiles with nuclear warheads look in this case as a very interesting deterrent (due to the possibility of delivering a guaranteed retaliatory strike against a full-scale military aggression).

                  Yes sir. A powerful fleet is a LIFE necessity for the United States.
                  Try in modern conditions to cover the coastline of 60 thousand miles. wink
                  Therefore, they work proactively, striving to block a potential enemy in his ports.

                  We have a completely different situation.
                  Captured and Murmansk and Sevastopol and Petropavlovsk, so what? Where are those invaders? laughing

                  Submarines in these conditions are the best deterrent. Only a comparable fleet is cooler.
                  1. Terran ghost
                    Terran ghost 30 August 2021 11: 50
                    +2
                    Yes sir. A powerful fleet is a LIFE necessity for the United States.
                    Try in modern conditions to cover the coastline of 60 thousand miles.

                    Well, formally, Russia also has a very long coastline. The fact is that the main financial and industrial centers of the Russian Federation are located relatively far from the ocean coast.
                    But in the United States (New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco - on the coast, Washington - next to it) and China (Shanghai - a coastal city, Beijing - next to the ocean coast), the situation is completely different. Hence, by the way, China's intensified construction of naval forces today.
              3. Bekasov Artem Andreevich
                Bekasov Artem Andreevich 30 August 2021 12: 04
                0
                Is this your strategy? Bravo!
                1. Doctor
                  Doctor 30 August 2021 13: 22
                  0
                  Is this your strategy? Bravo!

                  What is yours?
                  Finish off the country's economy, trying to build AV and collapse to the Moscow principality? wink
                  1. Bekasov Artem Andreevich
                    Bekasov Artem Andreevich 30 August 2021 14: 05
                    +2
                    I do not pretend to develop strategies.
                    but, here you have Yaroslavna's crying, for twenty-five years we have been finishing and finishing everything, and still there is no result. So what ?!
                    1. Doctor
                      Doctor 30 August 2021 14: 31
                      +1
                      I do not pretend to develop strategies.
                      but, here you have Yaroslavna's crying, for twenty-five years we have been finishing and finishing everything, and still there is no result. So what ?!

                      Just include common sense.
                      When it comes to personal finance, it usually gets turned on.
                      But the guys are sawing the state. wink

                      If you are a pedestrian and you are given 3 million, what would you buy a jeep or a boat? laughing
                      1. Bekasov Artem Andreevich
                        Bekasov Artem Andreevich 22 September 2021 12: 19
                        +1
                        What is your common sense according to the principle "either or"? Let's build AB, tear and fall apart. Can you have some sound ideas without extremes?
                        In my opinion, it is still possible to think about AV only at the level of concepts and subsystems of a promising AV (power plant, order control systems for ships, anti-aircraft missile defense and air defense, the composition of an air wing, etc.). Why? Because we are not yet ready to build AV and it's not even about money. We are not ready technically, organizationally and practically. We are only restoring the competence of large-block large-tonnage shipbuilding, shipyards need powerful ones of their own, new types of power plants are just being developed and are starting to operate. Our naval base is not technically ready to accept new aircraft and a lot will have to be created from scratch. We do not even understand the composition of the wing, or rather we have no consensus on it. The presence of the MiG-29K is not a panacea. Most of the controversy rests on the theory of its application. And here, too, a plug, some in the forest, some for firewood. About carrier-based aircraft RER, EW, AWACS and PLO, I generally keep quiet, they are at the level of Soviet mock-ups and there is no progress.
                        The simplest questions - why do we need a fleet and AB ??? cause stupor. Someone wants to solve all maritime tasks with drones alone, others say that we will manage with the coastal fleet, we have no tasks far from the coast. Some, as well as I, dream of seeing the Russian fleet at the level of the late Soviet fleet with the removal of those shortcomings that were inherent in it. But then it developed intensively and the prospect was visible. What now? We hand over frigates piece by piece for 5-7 years, destroyers have not been built for more than 15 years, like cruisers. So about the construction of AB so far there is only something to talk about.
                      2. Doctor
                        Doctor 22 September 2021 13: 40
                        0
                        What is your common sense according to the principle "either or"?

                        What you wrote next is common sense.

                        I am not ready to maintain a boat, I have nowhere to put it, I do not have an awning and an engine for it.
                        Well, the main question is - why? laughing
            3. victor50
              victor50 29 August 2021 18: 15
              +3
              Quote: URAL72
              One - we are already deciding in Syria, perhaps Libya is on its way, but it is better to act there together with Egypt. In Libya, the coast is everything. Like many other interesting countries. UDC is enough for her, the rest will be done by Egypt and PMCs. The one who has no mind has no strategy. I personally see the need for UDC, moreover, an acute one.

              It's good that those who make decisions are unlikely to listen to you! Foolishness without your enough! Well, put it on, not put it on, and put it on, not lay it down. Why do all illiterate people have a passion to teach?
            4. Vladimir1155
              Vladimir1155 29 August 2021 21: 38
              +6
              Quote: URAL72
              I personally see the need for UDC, moreover, an acute one. Don't write to me - I don't like to chew and put in my mouth. Better study the topic.

              you are not naval and do not understand the obvious truths, not only Aircraft Carriers and UDCs are not needed in Syria, but there is no need for BDK either, there is simply not enough dry cargo ships and therefore they drive the BDK and killed their resource. Understand the landing ships are designed to land troops, not to replace bulk carriers, weapons transports! For the Syrian express, they bought old dry cargo ships and harnessed almost half of the large landing ships of Russia, all this was rolled into trash, and now everything has been taken away from the Baltic Sea further away ... and you mean an aircraft carrier? first, the old dry cargo ships would have to buy but there is no money ..... Escort is really needed not only for the UDC but for the BDK, .... so after all, for the BDK it is not there now! Thank God, we still have a lot of Polish large landing ships, but they are not accompanied, in wartime they will not go to sea! Are you talking about an aircraft carrier? frigates should have at least! There are no minesweepers, no sea helicopters! even the old projects of helicopters will be enough on the hand, I watched in Abkhazia on 8.8.8 from the coast the movement of a pair of large landing ships in SUKHUM ... they had to accompany the entire Black Sea Fleet with a cruiser ...
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 30 August 2021 12: 16
                +2
                Quote: vladimir1155
                For the Syrian express, they bought old dry cargo ships and harnessed almost half of the BDK of Russia, all this was rolled into trash, and now everything was taken from the Baltic Sea further away ...

                BDK DKBF have been on the Syrian express since 2013. There even the Northern Fleet and the Pacific Fleet were noted.
                As of October 2017:
                ... for the entire period of operation of the "Syrian Express", a total of 320 flights of the BDK pr. 775 (267) and 1171 (53) were performed, which translates to a full carrying capacity of 186 tons of military cargo. Over the years, the picture is as follows: 500 - 2012 flights (warm-up), 9 - 2013, 63 - 2014, 54 - 2015, 83 - 2016, 77 (for 2017 months) - 9. Monthly, on average, 34 flights were performed, in 5,5 year - 2015. The peak falls on the pre-storm September-October 6,9 (when Obama was going to bomb Syria) - 2013 flights each and in September-October 10 (preparation and start of the military operation of the Russian Armed Forces) - 2015 and 10, respectively.
                The distribution of flights according to ships belonging to a particular fleet looks like this: the lion's share ("controlling stake") falls on the Black Sea Fleet - 174 (54%), which is not at all surprising, followed by the Baltic Fleet - 88 (28%), then the Northern Fleet - 47 (15%), and finally Pacific Fleet - 10 (3%), one project 775 BDK managed to hide its side number and its real name from vigilant Istanbul observers. There were 19 business trips (taking into account the recently started military service of "Otrakovsky") - 9 from the Baltic, 8 from the North and 2 from the Pacific Ocean. The average duration of a business trip (excluding the first three 50-day trips with the Northern Fleet on a "round trip" basis) is 297 days (about 10 months). The top 5 most enduring large landing ships and crews are headed by the North Sea "Alexander Otrakovsky" (588 days), followed by "Alexander Shabalin" (BF, 392 days), "Kaliningrad" (BF, 343 days), "George the Pobedonosets" (SF, 335 days) and Minsk (about 300 days).


                https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/173427.html
              2. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 30 August 2021 12: 23
                0
                Quote: vladimir1155
                I watched in Abkhazia on 8.8.8 from the shore the movement of a pair of large landing ships in SUKHUM ... they had to give the entire Black Sea Fleet with a cruiser at the head to accompany ...

                Didn't they go to Poti? what
                Absolutely incomprehensible expedition - unless "for show", they say, the Black Sea Fleet also took part in the war compulsion to peace. For the Black Sea Fleet landed the landing on the empty berths of the Poti port after Lebed's group frolicked there, drowning the boats, which had previously been "successfully destroyed" by the fleet.
            5. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 30 August 2021 12: 09
              +1
              Quote: URAL72
              Escort? Does it mean that the BDK to Syria does not need escort, but the UDC is required?

              Yes. The use of the BDK on the Syrian route was a forced misapplication caused by the lack of normal transports in the fleet and the collapse of the civilian fleet, as a result of which it was impossible to mobilize suitable TR from it. As a matter of fact, a regular ro-ro rover under the protection of the flag of the auxiliary fleet would have done much better with the tasks of the large landing craft in the "Syrian Express". As it was done later.

              Transport and landing should not be confused. For targeted use, both BDK and UDC require an escort. And a fire support group. Otherwise, instead of landing, we will even get a meat grinder in Somalia. For today even some Zusul may have "Iron kaput" SCRC.
              1. Doctor
                Doctor 30 August 2021 13: 30
                -1
                Transport and landing should not be confused. For targeted use, both BDK and UDC require an escort. And a fire support group. Otherwise, instead of landing, we will even get a meat grinder in Somalia. For today even some Zusuls may have an "Iron Kaput" SCRC.

                Everything is correct. Now for the landing you need absolute dominance on the shore. Incl. in the air.
                And in this situation, it does not matter whether the UDC or even the tanker. wink
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 30 August 2021 14: 17
                  +1
                  Quote: Arzt
                  And in this situation, it does not matter whether the UDC or even a tanker

                  Better still, the UDC - it is easier to base helicopters on it until a normal platform is equipped on the shore. smile
            6. Biodred
              Biodred 15 October 2021 07: 03
              0
              You, unfortunately, are thinking with the wrong head. In Syria, the escort of the BDK is not needed - there is no question of disembarking on the enemy shore. But where resistance is foreseen, your UDC will not suppress this resistance with a dozen turntables. And we simply have nothing to suppress it - from the fleet there was gulkin hell.
          2. Volder
            Volder 29 August 2021 15: 34
            -2
            Quote: JD1979
            UDC, like Avik, without the appropriate aircraft, is simply an expensive trough, as well as without escort - not a single sane destroyer-cruiser URO is available and is not expected.
            Why do you think that you need to stupidly copy the American concept of the naval group? Firstly, aircraft equipment for our future UDCs is being created today - these are Ka-52 helicopters. Secondly, the frigates of project 22350 and Soviet-built cruisers are quite capable of escorting the UDC - they have both an air defense system and strike missiles that are capable of showing "Kuz'kin's mother" to any enemy.
            1. Vladimir1155
              Vladimir1155 29 August 2021 21: 47
              +4
              Quote: Volder
              Why do you think that you need to stupidly copy the American concept of the naval group? Firstly, aircraft equipment for our future UDCs is being created today - these are Ka-52 helicopters. Secondly, the frigates of project 22350 and Soviet-built cruisers are quite capable of escorting the UDC.

              frigates steam, cruisers will soon be scrapped, what remains? complete calm
              1. Barberry25
                Barberry25 30 August 2021 14: 07
                +2
                laughing and we already have UDC and Aviki on the way? As if the most optimistic estimates say that we will have UDC serially in the 30s, and aircraft carriers only in the 40s ... So by this time the question of the presence of the ship group will be removed.
            2. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 30 August 2021 12: 31
              +2
              Quote: Volder
              Why do you think that it is necessary to copy the American concept of the ship group stupidly?

              Because they have 80 years of experience in organizing amphibious operations. Including such a scale, from which our admirals can only bite their elbows with envy. And under American concepts lies practice, not theoretical calculations. Moreover, the practice of both success and failure.
              Quote: Volder
              First, for our future UDCs, aircraft are being created today - these are Ka-52 helicopters.

              The main function of the UDC is the landing of troops. Accordingly, the main helicopter for him should be the deck landing. Do we have it? Is it being developed here?
              Garden vegetable with him, with Osprey. Do we have at least an analogue of CH-53 in hardware or at the development stage? Or CH-46? Or what - shall we consider the Ka-29 amphibious assault helicopter?
              Quote: Volder
              Secondly, the frigates of project 22350 and Soviet-built cruisers are quite capable of escorting the UDC.

              Are all four or five in good order?
        2. Konnick
          Konnick 29 August 2021 12: 17
          +19
          The fact that aircraft carriers are needed is a fact, but not for a war with the United States, but for the ability to project power in any region, otherwise we are not a superpower

          Do you really want to live in a superpower and demonstrate strength?
          Do you need it? Or it may be better to become a superpower in the economy not to build aircraft carriers, but simply to demonstrate a high standard of living, achievements of science, technology and culture, and not threaten from the deck of an aircraft carrier towards those who do not want to know about your strength.
          Now is not a war in order to strain the last forces to fight the enemy. All these super-duper best, "unparalleled", serve the same purpose, to protect the current regime that has failed everything and everything, primarily by looking for an external enemy and reorienting the gullible to fight mythical enemies. We also have a terrible enemy, the universal ...
          1. URAL72
            URAL72 29 August 2021 12: 30
            -16
            Another "reader". Didn't I say that FIRST it is necessary to raise science and economics? Why quote me against me? What I want, you cannot understand, since you could not understand what was written in black and white. There is no superpower without military force. China understood this. Just don't talk about Germany. There are foreign bases and America is pressing them as it wants. And remember, as your beloved Americans say, "my country is not right, but this is my country." No need to yap at Putin, he made Russia independent. It is impossible to remember Yeltsin's liberalism without disgust.
            1. Konnick
              Konnick 29 August 2021 12: 34
              +13
              Another "reader

              Are you talking to yourself?

              Didn't I say that FIRST it is necessary to raise science and economics?

              They said.
              I added the phrase not for building aircraft carriers.
              No need to yap at Putin, he made Russia independent. It is impossible to remember Yeltsin's liberalism without disgust

              You either put on your panties or take off the cross. Climbed to minus? Come on minus, toy in the tin soldiers wassat It's a shame that in the country most of these people believe in toy stars on their epaulets.
              1. Kittymoore
                Kittymoore 29 August 2021 15: 53
                -5
                An everyday occurrence.
                The most ardent Imperials are the natsmen from its outskirts.
                This former Ukrainian sits in the DPR and dreams of greatness, along the way telling the residents of Russia what they need to do.

                "They are terribly far from the people"
            2. Revival
              Revival 29 August 2021 14: 28
              +11
              "Didn't I say that FIRST it is necessary to raise science and economics?"

              The conversation can be ended at this point, no one is doing this and is not going to.
              The economy keeps sliding and sliding ...
              And who did it !?
              And, I remembered, you already said.
              Boosting the economy is not a handout before the right date.
            3. Revival
              Revival 29 August 2021 15: 41
              +5
              "There is no superpower without military power. China has understood that."

              There is no military force without a powerful economy.
              And yes, China understood this and acted accordingly
            4. Revival
              Revival 29 August 2021 15: 49
              +2
              "Didn't I say that FIRST it is necessary to raise science and economics?"

              That is, in modern realities, you so easily assert that we can well land on Pluto, you just need to colonize Mars first to the end !?

              What are the similarities?
              The fact that we also do not deal with these things at all and do not intend to
            5. New Year day
              New Year day 29 August 2021 16: 05
              +12
              Quote: URAL72
              There is no superpower without military force. China understood this.

              China realized this and began to develop its economy .. first, then the fleet
              Quote: URAL72
              Just don't talk about Germany.

              why not? Reich: if we estimate the growth of production relative to 1929, as 100%, then the total industrial production within the borders of 1938 (before the Anschluss of Austria) increased from 67 in 1933 to 107 in two years and to 140% by 1939. Economic growth is evident and by 1942 Germany launched a submarine every 2 days!
              Quote: URAL72
              No need to yap at Putin, he made Russia independent.

              from what and from whom is it independent? Don't tell fairy tales. The lifting of sanctions is one of the conditions for the development of the country, although it was rubbish without sanctions

              If there is no ECONOMY, then what kind of fleet ?! Only on a leftover basis. What we have request
            6. Navigator
              Navigator 29 August 2021 17: 24
              +10
              "There is no need to yap at Putin, because he made Russia independent. It is impossible to remember Yeltsin's liberation without disgust." You bent it. What is independence? Russia today rose from its knees to get down on all fours. almost all retail chains are owned by foreigners, import substitution has failed. Ask who owns the electrical grid in Siberia. We depend on the dollar directly. Our entire economy is focused on the sale of raw materials to the West. What kind of independence can we talk about here?
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 29 August 2021 19: 06
                -1
                import substitution has failed. And in what way it is possible to fail specifics - and since 2014, import substitution has been fulfilled in 1600 directions. We are directly dependent on the dollar, this dependence every year less and less got rid of it in the National Welfare Fund of the gold and foreign exchange reserves, and only a part of export payments remained in foreign deposits. Our entire economy is focused on the sale of raw materials to the West. At the moment, only 50% of the remaining 50% is already processing and not raw materials, and yes, we trade with the whole world, not only with Western countries.
                1. New Year day
                  New Year day 29 August 2021 19: 09
                  +9
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  And in what it is failed specifics can be

                  Can. -Why are carrots more expensive than bananas?
                  1. Alber alber
                    Alber alber 30 August 2021 01: 05
                    +1
                    We will not talk about transportation, it is cheap at such volumes. Only the sown area remains. How many conventional carrots will you grow on a conventional square meter of carrots, and how many bananas. I ask you to answer in weight equivalent and remind you that carrots are a root crop, and a banana is a tall, vertical plant, and I also ask you not to forget that there are winters in places where carrots grow. Can you find the answer yourself or do you need more hints?
                  2. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 30 August 2021 15: 14
                    -3
                    It is possible because in 2019 they planted a lot and did not realize it, in view of which they suffered losses last year, they planted less, plus the price of fertilizers went up and everything that went along with that, the price soared as the deficit. This year the harvest will be harvested, the price should stabilize.
                2. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 29 August 2021 20: 18
                  +4
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  And in what it has failed the specifics can be - and since 2014 in 1600 directions

                  All over Vadik. The seed fund in the allegedly achieved food security is still 70% imported. AvtoVAZ extended its vacation due to the lack of electronic components from China. Do not think to compare is not yours? wink
                  All your achievements are churches instead of schools. For the illiterate is easier to rule.
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 29 August 2021 20: 54
                    -8
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    The seed fund in the allegedly achieved food security is still 70% imported

                    Can I have a source?
                    1. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 29 August 2021 20: 59
                      +3
                      Quote: Dart2027
                      Can I have a source?

                      I have more than once inserted quotes from the Minister of Agriculture to Zaputins.
                      Tired of looking. Do me a favor, refute my words.
                      1. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 29 August 2021 21: 25
                        -6
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Do me a favor, refute my words.

                        For example, we are still heavily dependent on imported seed and breeding material. The provision of own seed material in our country today is 67,2%. At the same time, for food safety crops such as wheat or rye, the material of our own selection or produced in Russia is almost 100%. The imported seeds include, oddly enough, sugar beets, sunflowers, potatoes and rapeseed.

                        http://vch.ru/event/view.html?alias=rossiya_v_2020_godu_pobila_rekord_po_eksportu_prodovolstviya
                      2. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 29 August 2021 21: 54
                        +8
                        You can poke the minus button as much as you want, but your false links will not become more truthful. According to the Ministry of Agriculture, the dependence on seed material in Russia is from 20 to 95%.

                        For wheat, yes, we almost completely have our own seeds, but for corn, sugar beets, sunflowers, we are almost completely dependent on imports. Especially for sugar beets, 95%.
                        https://agrovesti.net/lib/industries/corn/analiz-importa-semyan-dlya-poseva-osnovnykh-vidov-zernovykh-i-zernobobovykh-kul-tur-v-2012-2020-gg.html
                        So at least minus yourself, but all your Putin lies are easily verified by a query in a search engine.
                      3. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 30 August 2021 19: 14
                        -4
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        For wheat, yes, we almost completely have our own seeds, but for corn, sugar beets, sunflowers, we are almost completely dependent on imports. Especially for sugar beets, 95%.

                        That is, you first declare that we are 70% dependent, and then it turns out that not everywhere, and which of us is lying? What is more important than wheat or corn?
                        And your link directly says that every year the dependence on supplies is decreasing.
                      4. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 30 August 2021 20: 50
                        +2
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And your link directly says that every year the dependence on supplies is decreasing.

                        Is analytical thinking not yours? Somewhere it decreases, and somewhere it grows.
                      5. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 30 August 2021 21: 36
                        -3
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Is analytical thinking not yours?

                        Not yours, but this is your problem. The process is going on and the results are obvious.
                      6. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 30 August 2021 21: 52
                        +1
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The process is going on and the results are obvious.

                        I'm used to thinking logically. And all your results and processes are destructive. Especially in comparison with other countries.
                        So your "analytics" is at ...
                      7. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 31 August 2021 19: 10
                        -2
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        I'm used to thinking logically.

                        ideologically.
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        And all your results and processes are destructive.

                        In this case, the development of your seed fund, and such a one that cannot be refuted?
                      8. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 31 August 2021 19: 15
                        0
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        ideologically

                        A tricky question - can ideology coincide with logic, or do you think these are antonyms?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        In this case, the development of your seed fund,

                        Development implies growth, not marking time, but regression on individual points.
                      9. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 31 August 2021 21: 16
                        0
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        ideology may coincide with logic, or, in your opinion, these are antonyms

                        The keyword can. But in the future, ideology becomes a dogma that is put ahead of logic.
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Development means growth, not marking time

                        Can't you look at the dynamics of the decrease in the number of purchased seeds?
                  2. Barberry25
                    Barberry25 30 August 2021 14: 09
                    0
                    This is an example of a studio where we built churches instead of schools?
                    1. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 30 August 2021 15: 43
                      +2
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      This is an example of a studio where we built churches instead of schools?

                      You will save your auditing habits for others. You have little honor, and the price is 30 Putin-Prigogine silver pieces. Here is the address for you -
                      Balashov, st. Karl Marx 95A. Under the Soviet Union, it was a primary school.
                      1. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 30 August 2021 15: 52
                        0
                        laughing how dare they!
                        ... In Balashov, by the way, a new school for 825 places will be built in the coming years ... what scoundrels) thanks, I laughed
                      2. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 30 August 2021 15: 56
                        +3
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        a new school for 825 places will be built in the coming years.

                        Which ones are coming? And whoever studies there will be people fleeing from Balashov. The people have already gorged themselves on your promises, the May decrees, and the words of the "men" that while he is the president, they will not raise their pensions.
                      3. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 30 August 2021 16: 00
                        -3
                        Well, here everything is so awful that as an example you cited a school, the building of which was given to the diocese already 22 years ago ... by the way, what, the neighboring secondary school is no longer working? to Poland ... you have a place there along the way)
                      4. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 30 August 2021 16: 44
                        +3
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        You also run the main thing ... you can go straight to Ukraine ... or to Poland ... you have a place there along the way)

                        You will not wait. My Motherland is here, and not where your employers take their assets.
                        You are not in the house, that sooner or later their power will end, and from them and from their henchmen will be asked. But I think they will have time to emigrate. Unlike you. And with modern technologies, the law enforcement services of the new state will not have any problems to find you. Whatever you are told in your troll chat about anonymity.
                        Think about it.
                      5. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 30 August 2021 17: 08
                        -2
                        Uhhh what we are scary .. And why did you Igor a year ago in the 95th or in the 2000th did not ask that? Or was it scary to ask then? Or hungry? But now everything is so bad with you that every day you write how everything is bad in Russia .. And yes .. Well, you will find out my address .. and what next? Come to me in Oryol "hang on poles"?
                      6. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 30 August 2021 20: 54
                        +1
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        Will you come to my Eagle "to hang on poles"?

                        You don’t need to attribute to me what I didn’t say. I said that under a just and popular government, people like you should be sentenced to good terms, for aiding traitors from the government. I hope too. that I will live up to this moment.
                        P.S. I am ready to give my life for my Motherland, if need be. Are you ready to give your life for United Russia and Putin?
                      7. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 30 August 2021 21: 16
                        -2
                        those. Do I understand correctly that you can already be sent to jail?) By the way .. "I'll give my life" I never heard the answer ... Where were you in the 90s? Or we have a classic, let someone do something, and I'm going to hate and despise everyone from the couch?
                      8. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 30 August 2021 21: 57
                        +1
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        those. Do I understand correctly that you can be sent to jail now?

                        If we take as a basis the fact that the current government is engaged in silent genocide, and you encourage and promote it - yes. How Bendera's people were once sent. For you are an accomplice in the destruction of the country.
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        Where were you in the 90s?

                        He was young, lascivious, like most 20-year-olds. Alas.
                      9. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 30 August 2021 22: 02
                        0
                        those. I understand correctly, when in the 90s there was nothing to eat in places and the collapse of Igor's country was going on drinking beer and fornicating around women and he liked everything ... and as it became under 50 liters, then everything .. "the country was destroyed, everyone must be imprisoned" ... Igor ... the main destroyer here is you, because for some reason in the 90s you sat on your ass exactly and did nothing ... but now you decided to demand that they plant and hang ... interesting, but in the course of your "revolutionary frenzy", for some reason you yourself decided to otmazatsya "they say there will be a fair power" ... well, yes ... it is necessary to plant everyone, who dared to say that Putin did something good ... you either have a midlife crisis, or you are too hypocritical ... that one thing that doesn't paint you the other way..you, instead of everyday gatherings on Topvar, would rather do it ... otherwise another would-be revolutionary wound up on the couch
                      10. ccsr
                        ccsr 30 August 2021 17: 33
                        +4
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Here is the address for you -

                        The same thing happened in the city of Kerch on Tolstoy Street, where the eight-year-old was converted into a church:

                        Apparently illiterate believers are more reliable potential for future achievements of Russia - literate believers are not in trend now ...
                      11. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 30 August 2021 21: 02
                        +1
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Apparently illiterate believers are more reliable potential for future achievements of Russia - literate believers are not in trend now ...

                        Yes. now the trend is a believer and a literate consumer. These are the conclusions that suggest themselves when looking at the number of shopping and entertainment centers and churches, especially in comparison with the number of educational institutions.
                      12. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 30 August 2021 21: 56
                        -3
                        and in Kerch, the Russian Orthodox Church is building a Sunday school ... but that's not it ... tongue
                      13. ccsr
                        ccsr 30 August 2021 22: 02
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        and in Kerch, the Russian Orthodox Church is building a Sunday school ... but it's not that

                        And in Kerch, school # 7 was closed even under the Ukrainian government, and it is still used as a hostel. And the Korolenko gymnasium was closed, but the new building will only be completed in a couple of years - the process of gaining knowledge in the most industrial city of Crimea is proceeding normally. Apparently Sunday school will give the necessary fundamental knowledge to future applicants ...
                      14. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 30 August 2021 22: 06
                        -1
                        laughing yes ... it's Putin's fault that you closed the school under the Ukrainian government ... I wonder how much hypocrisy can be developed in a person? we have zolotoy..voruet, litter, bribes, but it is Putin's fault, and not they..so in fact? So, for school number 7, Putin is already responsible .. And then VY..with the Ukrainian government chosen by YOU, it was closed. ..
                      15. ccsr
                        ccsr 31 August 2021 15: 14
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        yes ... it's Putin's fault that you closed the school under the Ukrainian government ..

                        I didn’t cover anything. did not live there, because he was a citizen of Russia.

                        Quote: Barberry25
                        I wonder how much you can develop hypocrisy in a person? I just watch you break records ..

                        If you have already started talking about this, then I would like you not to talk your language for nothing, but to give a concrete example of my hypocrisy.
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        .Putin is always bad ... the government is bad, but our people are golden .. steal, litter, give bribes, but it is Putin's fault, and not they .. so?

                        Why are you attributing your stupidity to me? The fact that Putin, as a former member of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, after serving in the KGB, sharply struck religion, more resembles hypocrisy than all my texts.

                        Quote: Barberry25
                        So, Putin is already responsible for school number 7 ..

                        Of course not, but it could have been restored over the past seven years, that's for sure - it would have been more useful than opening a new church.
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        And then YOU closed it ... with the Ukrainian government chosen by YOU, then ...

                        You are delusional - I have never been a Ukrainian citizen, because I was only a citizen of the USSR and Russia, and I could not choose anyone there. What are you smoking there, I was already wondering ...
                      16. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 31 August 2021 15: 45
                        -2
                        your hypocrisy? Yes, full) how can you not ask someone, so all the ardent fighters for Russia ... but how can you specify where they were all in the 90s, so they hide the language and begin to bleat, it is not clear what .. By the way, according to the comments about "I have never been "..turns out that they were ... Or did you correctly keep the USSR passport while living in the Crimea?)
                      17. ccsr
                        ccsr 31 August 2021 16: 00
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        Or did you correctly keep the USSR passport while living in Crimea?)

                        You are an enchanting type, and your pearls are simply worth carving in stone. Firstly, I served in the nineties - until the collapse of the USSR in the SA, and after that in the Russian army, right up to retirement. Secondly, I have never been a citizen of Ukraine and have never lived and do not live in Crimea, with the exception of childhood, because I have been living in Moscow for many years. If you know at least something, then read a couple of my author's articles, maybe then it will come to you who I am and what I did. And I know Crimea well, and I graduated from school 7 in the city of Kerch in ancient times, when you were not yet in the project, which is why I am offended when new churches are opened for the sake of saints, but for some reason they forget about the temple of school science. And even worse, when schools are taken away for churches - do you want to talk about this hypocrisy?
                        By the way, I got my passport only in 1996, because before that I had an identity card - you got into trouble here too, otherwise you wouldn't have told me about the USSR passport, which was confiscated from me at the age of 17 and issued a military ID long before the collapse Soviet Union.
                      18. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 31 August 2021 16: 06
                        +1
                        laughing and that is why you are terribly worried about the school in Crimea, which at one time was handed over by the Ukrainian authorities that they threw a tantrum? Putin? Like "the best patriot is the one who only sees the dirt."
                      19. ccsr
                        ccsr 31 August 2021 16: 15
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        and that is why you are terribly worried about the school in Crimea, which at one time was handed over by the Ukrainian authorities that they threw a tantrum?

                        I laugh at your pharisaism. By the way, in Kerch, a decent soldiers' club of a tank regiment was also given to a church, as if it could not be used for other purposes.
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        By the way, why don’t you be hysterical that the evil Putin dared to build a school for 800 children in Kerch?

                        So it was laid down only after the citizens of the city were outraged by the closure of the oldest gymnasium in Russia, which has embodied the history of the city since the 19th century. And for some reason someone bothered to transfer this building into unknown hands, so the scandal could not be hushed up. And all this happened before my eyes - what is it to call?
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        because in a favorite habit they hung all the dogs on Putin,

                        You remembered about Putin, I didn't say anything about him, you just didn't know what to find fault with, so you started talking nonsense about him.
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        And who are you after that if not a hypocrite?

                        Now you are definitely a hardened hypocrite, since you deny the obvious facts, and even brag about your Sunday school. Burn further, you will not lose anything ...
                      20. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 31 August 2021 17: 20
                        0
                        laughing oh yes .. "I did not speak about Putin" .. but before you said and you entered into a conversation in this canvas, terrible Putin, you all need to be hung and now we will create a Beautiful Russia of the Future, starting with hanging everyone who praised Putin on pillars or with their deportation to the camps - to this I answered ... negative
                  3. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 30 August 2021 15: 16
                    -1
                    The seed fund in the allegedly achieved food security is still 70% imported - Officially, from 20 to 80% for all crops - most of all for sugar beets - so 70% for all seeds is a lie.
                    1. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 30 August 2021 15: 46
                      +1
                      Quote: Vadim237
                      so 70% of all seeds are lies.

                      Lies because it doesn't fit into your paid paradigm? You would Vadik refute me with numbers, as it should be for smart people! wink
                      Now melon season - imported seeds over 90%.
                3. igor67
                  igor67 30 August 2021 10: 51
                  +2
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  ... At the moment, only 50% of the remaining 50% is already processing and not raw materials, and yes, we trade with the whole world, not only with Western countries.

                  The processed raw materials on imported equipment, on TV channels constantly show factories for the processing of all kinds of raw materials, only you did not take into account, or do not know, that all processes are regulated from servers from abroad, I work on exactly the same equipment, the slightest stop and on a server in Spain there is an SMS, and with serious sanctions, everything can be stopped and turned into a pile of expensive iron, remember how Ford was stopped?
                  1. Barberry25
                    Barberry25 30 August 2021 14: 11
                    +1
                    One momentus ... you can stop, only there have already been precedents that it is possible to leave the Russian market, but it will be very difficult and very expensive to return. The West has already done it easily ... but they are not in a hurry ... apparently they understand something
                  2. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 30 August 2021 15: 23
                    -2
                    They have already begun to produce Russian products in all areas - and do not worry, no one will disconnect anything, since they will immediately lose the market and get into legal bondage, since the purchased equipment is monitored only for the duration of its warranty by the manufacturer - and yes, not all equipment is monitored from foreign servers - in my production there are several dozen CNC machines and processing centers via the Internet, no one monitors them, there is a service contract in which case.
            7. Machnamh
              Machnamh 29 August 2021 21: 08
              +4
              Quote: URAL72
              No need to yap at Putin, because he made Russia independent


              So independent that as soon as Putin does not become, then Russia will order to live a long time in its current form. Everything will fall down. Poor Franz Joseph I sat on the throne in 66 years and did not live for exactly two years to meet the end of his native empire. Putin is aiming there too. He served 22 years and is no longer a young man. This is how your system with precious Putin is, in fact. Don't you think about it?
            8. Vladimir1155
              Vladimir1155 30 August 2021 09: 41
              +1
              Quote: URAL72
              Didn't I say that FIRST it is necessary to raise science and economics?

              and for this, first, you need to stop being an American colony, stop squeezing your business with taxes, and stop sending multibillion-dollar slave tribute to the United States under the guise of "sovereign" funds and through offshores
              1. Terran ghost
                Terran ghost 30 August 2021 10: 50
                -2
                stop being an American colony for a start

                First you need to understand what a colony is. And then discover "an absolutely amazing fact" - a colony, BY DEFINITION, cannot have a foreign policy independent of the mother country. And even more so one that in some way contradicts the interests of this very metropolis.
                1. Vladimir1155
                  Vladimir1155 30 August 2021 10: 55
                  +2
                  Quote: Terran Ghost
                  a colony BY DEFINITION cannot have a foreign policy independent of the metropolis

                  that is, you want to prove that we are not a colony, but a semi-colony? Where have you seen independent foreign policy other than TV? it does not exist, I will say more, the Russian Federation does not have an independent domestic policy, ordered to raise the vat, raised it, ordered the IMF to raise the retirement age, ordered to abolish export duties on oil, canceled ... the Central Bank of Russia does not obey the country, plays in the interests of the United States, as however, the government and the State Duma .. where do you see independence? in what? , facts?
                  1. Terran ghost
                    Terran ghost 30 August 2021 11: 57
                    -1
                    Where have you seen independent foreign policy other than TV?

                    Um .. Syria?
                    ordered the IMF to raise the retirement age

                    And what does the IMF have to do with it, if Russia has not attracted the Fund's loans for a long time and has already paid off the previous ones at that time.
                    Central Bank of the Russian Federation is not subject to the country

                    Mm .. the candidacy of the head of the Central Bank of the Russian Federation is submitted for consideration by the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation (hereinafter - the State Duma) by the President of the Russian Federation (in the period 2000-2008 and from 2012 to the present, V.V. Putin is the President of the Russian Federation) ... Thereafter, the appointment is made by the State Duma (since 2003, the United Russia faction has had a majority in the State Duma).
                    Here is the answer, who appoints the head of the Central Bank of the Russian Federation and to whom he reports.
                    1. Vladimir1155
                      Vladimir1155 30 August 2021 16: 47
                      +2
                      Quote: Terran Ghost
                      Um .. Syria?

                      where did you get the idea that the presence of the Russian Federation in Syria is beneficial to Russia and not part of the American plan to reformat the Middle East? especially since the Americans then invited Russia to the Middle East in order to rake in the heat with our hands ...

                      where did we take out loans or not, if the retirement age was raised on the direct instructions of the IMF, where did you get the idea that the American masters should give what to the natives there?
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQf_at7eNS4
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8rHfqnKp9w
                      1. Terran ghost
                        Terran ghost 30 August 2021 17: 36
                        -2
                        if the retirement age was raised on the direct instructions of the IMF

                        I will repeat myself. Russia has not attracted the Fund's loans for a long time and has already paid off the previous ones at that time. That is, the International Monetary Fund simply could not make raising the retirement age a condition for obtaining a loan or financial assistance. And even if the IMF sets such conditions, they are formalized by a special agreement between the IMF and the recipient country.
                        The IMF does not belong to the bodies exercising state power in the Russian Federation. His instructions are not endowed with binding force.
                      2. Vladimir1155
                        Vladimir1155 30 August 2021 21: 58
                        0
                        Quote: Terran Ghost
                        The IMF does not belong to the bodies exercising state power in the Russian Federation. His instructions are not endowed with binding force.

                        just not so, the instructions of international organizations, the IMF WTO UNICEF WHO and others, are binding on Russia, This primacy of international organizations over the laws of Russia is established by article 15 p4 of the Constitution and Federal Law 101 article 5 Article 5. International treaties of the Russian Federation in the legal system of the Russian Federation

                        1. International treaties of the Russian Federation, along with the generally recognized principles and norms of international law, are, in accordance with the Constitution of the Russian Federation, an integral part of its legal system.
                        2. If an international treaty of the Russian Federation establishes rules other than those stipulated by law, then the rules of the international treaty shall apply.
                        3. The provisions of officially published international treaties of the Russian Federation, which do not require the issuance of domestic acts for application, operate directly in the Russian Federation. For the implementation of other provisions of international treaties of the Russian Federation, appropriate legal acts are adopted.
                      3. Terran ghost
                        Terran ghost 30 August 2021 23: 58
                        -2
                        instructions of international organizations, IMF WTO UNICEF WHO and others, are binding on Russia, This primacy of international organizations over the laws of Russia is established by Article 15 p4 of the Constitution

                        You are telling a blatant lie. No "primacy of international organizations" is established there. We open the actual part 4 of Article 15 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation
                        Quote: "4. The generally recognized principles and norms of international law and international treaties of the Russian Federation are an integral part of its legal system. If an international treaty of the Russian Federation establishes rules other than those provided for by law, then the rules of the international treaty are applied."
                        It is not talking about some incomprehensible "IMF decisions", but about international treaties ratified by the Russian Federation.
                        This norm, by the way, is not a novelty of the 1993 Constitution of the Russian Federation. We open the Constitution of the USSR of 1977, article 29
                        Quote: "The relations of the USSR with other states are built on the basis of observance of the principles of sovereign equality; mutual refusal to use force or the threat of force; inviolability of borders; territorial integrity of states; peaceful settlement of disputes; non-interference in internal affairs; respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms; equality and the right of peoples to dispose of their own destiny; cooperation between states; conscientious fulfillment of obligations arising from generally recognized principles and norms of international law, from international treaties concluded by the USSR. "
                        Again. According to the 1977 Constitution of the USSR, the generally recognized principles and norms of international law, as well as the provisions of international treaties of the USSR, were OBLIGATORY for the USSR proper. Pt.
                      4. Vladimir1155
                        Vladimir1155 31 August 2021 07: 18
                        +1
                        Quote: Terran Ghost
                        "primacy of international organizations"

                        you are hovering in your rosy dreams .... But the Ministry of Foreign Affairs writes the truth. obligations of the Russian side to pursue a specific macroeconomic policy... Since 1992 "https://www.mid.ru/mezdunarodnyj-valutnyj-fond-mvf-/-/asset_publisher/km9HkaXMTium/content/id/2511117
                      5. Terran ghost
                        Terran ghost 31 August 2021 09: 31
                        -3
                        But the Foreign Ministry writes

                        Have you read the text you are referring to?
                        https://www.mid.ru/mezdunarodnyj-valutnyj-fond-mvf-/-/asset_publisher/km9HkaXMTium/content/id/2511117
                        Quote: "Since Russia's accession to the IMF, cooperation with the Fund has been carried out on the basis of regular programs that determined the parameters for the provision of financial assistance and the obligations of the Russian side to pursue specific macroeconomic policies."
                        it refers to the programs that existed earlier, when Russia attracted loans from the International Monetary Fund on the basis of agreements concluded with the IMF. In these agreements, yes, the conditions for "conducting a specific macroeconomic policy" were spelled out ... as a condition for obtaining loans from the IMF.
                        At the same time ..
                        Quote: "Since 2000, Russia has never applied for IMF loans, and its total debt to the Fund has decreased by 2004 to $ 5,1 billion. In January 2005, in accordance with the provisions of the IMF Charter on early repayment of loans by members of the Fund, which significantly improved their balance of payments and increased the size of foreign exchange reserves, the Russian Federation paid the IMF the entire amount of accumulated debt (about 3,3 billion US dollars), thereby fully repaying its obligations to this organization. "
                        Since 2000, the Russian Federation has not applied for new IMF loans; since 2005, the previously existing debt to the IMF has been repaid. That is, after this moment, in principle, there could be no agreements with the IMF that imposed obligations on Russia to pursue this or that macroeconomic policy. Due to the fact that the Russian Federation no longer applied for loans from the IMF.
                      6. Vladimir1155
                        Vladimir1155 31 August 2021 19: 58
                        0
                        Quote: Terran Ghost
                        since 2005, the pre-existing debt to the IMF has been paid off. That is, after this moment, in principle, there could be no agreements with the IMF that imposed obligations on Russia to pursue this or that macroeconomic policy. Due to the fact that the Russian Federation no longer applied for loans from the IMF.

                        funny, your wishful thinking is so human! you see what you want to see, and not what is written, meanwhile, your logic is absent in the statement of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, you have thought of it yourself, There is no hint of stopping the implementation of the recommendations and requirements of the IMF, that is, Russia does not take loans, but that's all fulfills all the requirements of the IMF! how it raises taxes, and the retirement age, cancels export duties on raw materials, is ready to pay carbon tax and so on ... this is a bitter truth for the inhabitants of the American colony
            9. Terran ghost
              Terran ghost 30 August 2021 10: 46
              -1
              There is no superpower without military force. China figured it out

              China cut spending on arms and military to an economically acceptable level at the very beginning of Deng Xiaoping's reforms in the 1980s. This principle is observed today. China's military spending is 1,5-2 percent of its gross domestic product. Another thing is that the level of this very gross domestic product since the 1980s in China has risen so much that this percentage is quite enough for a modern high-tech and highly professional military force.
              Its economy has made China a superpower. In the case of the United States, by the way, it was exactly the same. It just happened about 80-100 years earlier.
              Just don't talk about Germany. There are foreign bases too

              So what? The presence in Germany of a certain number of American military bases does not in any way prevent this very Germany from being a successful and prosperous country.
          2. Dart2027
            Dart2027 29 August 2021 13: 11
            -4
            Quote: Konnick
            Or maybe it is better to become a superpower in the economy not to build aircraft carriers, but simply to demonstrate a high standard of living, achievements of science, technology and culture

            Forgot to add the word perestroika.
          3. ccsr
            ccsr 29 August 2021 14: 32
            +3
            Quote: Konnick
            Do you really want to live in a superpower and demonstrate strength?

            I think they really want this, although it is clear to name at least two or three situations where we could solve the problem using aircraft carriers, they do not have enough intelligence and knowledge.
            By the way, the current situation in Afghanistan has clearly shown that even thirty or forty US aircraft carriers could not solve the problem in this country, from which the American marines fled so shamefully.
            In general, the whim with aircraft carriers is inherent in people who are too far from the problems of modern Russia, which now has only two serious opponents, and against which aircraft carriers will not play any role. And since they will not, there is nothing to "bury money in the ground" - it is easier to take care of other types of weapons, and this will benefit our citizens.
          4. Terran ghost
            Terran ghost 30 August 2021 10: 55
            -2
            Do you really want to live in a superpower and demonstrate strength? Do you need it?

            This (the desire "let the people be content with an iron bowl of rice in order to be able to be proud of military might") is usually necessary for those who have already arranged for themselves and their loved ones a super-luxurious level of personal consumption, and therefore there is a desire to indulge their pride and pride through "geopolitical daydreaming. "
            Plus, there are also banal elements of idealizing your own past, for example. By the way, the phenomenon is far from new and in fact universal.
          5. Denis812
            Denis812 3 September 2021 17: 47
            0
            Yes, it is very good to become a superpower in the economy. Only this is pointless if you do not have the opportunity to protect your possessions.
            We need a balance. You need the ability to protect your property. And we need the ability to provide the population with a decent standard of living.
        3. Svarog
          Svarog 29 August 2021 13: 11
          +13
          Quote: URAL72
          I agree with the author, but this fully applies to himself. After reading this libel, persistent negative associations arise towards his personality.

          How can you agree with the author, but at the same time have negative associations to the author? .. Do you hate and fear the truth so much? Hearing what, hate the one who said it?
          The fact that aircraft carriers are needed is a fact, but not for a war with the United States, but for the ability to project force in any region, otherwise we are not a superpower and cannot count on the loyalty of potential allies because we cannot cover them

          Do you consider the Russian Federation a superpower? laughing The superpower has signs ... I'll give them for you ..
          A superpower or superpower, an independent state is the world's leading politically, economically, culturally and militarily, and has nuclear weapons.
          Of all of the above, only nuclear weapons can be fully attributed to superpower ... nuclear weapons, which were created in the real superpower of the USSR ... and not in a cardboard state ..
          We need economic growth and a revival of science. This symbiosis will allow us to return to its former greatness. But this takes time.

          30 years have passed .. how much more do you need? What has been done in 30 years?
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 29 August 2021 13: 52
            -4
            Quote: Svarog
            A superpower or superpower, an independent state is the world's leading politically, economically, culturally and militarily, and has nuclear weapons.

            Forgot to add, which will not fall apart because of the total betrayal of the entire leadership.
            1. Svarog
              Svarog 29 August 2021 14: 04
              +11
              Quote: Dart2027
              Quote: Svarog
              A superpower or superpower, an independent state is the world's leading politically, economically, culturally and militarily, and has nuclear weapons.

              Forgot to add, which will not fall apart because of the total betrayal of the entire leadership.

              So these traitors and their followers now rule the country ... you forgot to add that too ..
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 29 August 2021 14: 31
                -13
                Quote: Svarog
                now they rule the country

                But our partners, for some reason, hate them, unlike those. And the United States is already agreeing to the communists, if only not Putin, why?
                1. Revival
                  Revival 29 August 2021 15: 10
                  +7
                  Could you provide evidence that "the United States already agrees to communists if only not Putin"?
                  Or are you accustomed to your style?
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 29 August 2021 15: 18
                    -6
                    Quote: Revival
                    Could you provide evidence that "the United States already agrees to communists if only not Putin"?

                    https://kprf.ru/international/88824.html
                    Quote: Revival
                    Or are you accustomed to your style?

                    Are you talking to yourself?
                    1. Revival
                      Revival 29 August 2021 15: 34
                      +6
                      As I thought, you have no proof.

                      From your link:
                      "http://kommersant.ru/
                      2011-03-11 15:44
                      Representatives of the Russian opposition met yesterday with US Vice President Joseph Biden. He was interested in the details of how the elections are being rigged - he was told about this by representatives of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, "Fair Russia" and the non-systemic opposition. Boris Nemtsov proposed replacing the Jackson-Vanik amendment with a list of officials who should be banned from entering the United States for strangling democracy, and Garry Kasparov handed the list to the vice president ... "

                      There is no fresher proof, even a year so 1928?
                      And where is there about the support of the Communist Party?

                      By the way, I'm afraid to shock your, but they say that Putin also met with Biden, and even recently)))
                      Do you think Biden supports it?
                      1. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 29 August 2021 18: 19
                        -2
                        Quote: Revival
                        And where is there about the support of the Communist Party?
                        Read
                        Ms Ostanina, whom Mr Biden asked about the opposition's chances in the elections, replied that "the basic principles of competition are not being held," backing up the answer with examples about unequal access to the media and numerous electoral violations, including by United Russia. ... "I presented the US Vice President with a special issue of the Pravda newspaper with the questions of our popular referendum, and Mr. Biden told me:"When I came to the USSR in the 70s, did I think that someday I would support the communists and wish you victory ..."
                        You obviously have problems with reading.
                  2. Volder
                    Volder 29 August 2021 15: 50
                    0
                    Quote: Revival
                    Could you provide evidence that "the United States already agrees to communists if only not Putin"?
                    The communists were pliable in the 1996 elections. American consultants convinced Zyuganov to give up the victory, since behind Yeltsin was the West and his loyalty. Modern communists are no longer what they were 30, 40, 50 years ago ...
                2. Svarog
                  Svarog 29 August 2021 15: 11
                  +1
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  But our partners hate them for some reason, unlike those

                  It's just that those unfastened more, and these less .. that's the whole difference ..
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 29 August 2021 15: 19
                    -7
                    Quote: Svarog
                    They just unfastened more, and these less

                    Can you see the statements?
                3. Aag
                  Aag 29 August 2021 18: 52
                  +6
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  Quote: Svarog
                  now they rule the country

                  But our partners, for some reason, hate them, unlike those. And the United States is already agreeing to the communists, if only not Putin, why?

                  Colleague, I suspect, they will throw it at you now! (Sorry, I haven't read the comments below).
                  I sometimes wondered, too, the question you posed, - they say, if the GDP is so bad for the Russian Federation, why does the West reject it?
                  Some time later, a number of inconsistencies accumulated ...
                  I don’t know how it happened, I’ll answer for myself ...
                  1.And why did I even think that there are some problems with the leadership of the Country with the West ?! Where does the imfa come from? first persons to study, work, be treated in the camp of competitors? ... Please try to answer this question honestly, at least to yourself ...
                  2 ..... In my opinion, the first point is enough (well, like in the army ..))) ...
                  Okay, - I will continue: IMHO: the question arose in the price, percentage, for how much in what percentage we "merge" ...
                  Like: "this is our cow - and we will milk it" (c) Dukalis, "Street of Broken Lanterns" Kivins ....
                  And, it is absolutely not important who will ensure the profitability of the project: pensions for migrants (!) - from the former Soviet Union (most of whom do not know anything about the Union, but they heard that they were freed from the "yoke" of the Russians ...
                  3.Conditional ..... You can sort it out point by point and further, -but, I don't see the point, -tomorrow, or rather today, to work, -the MO pensioner, disabled, -and you need to work! Although, it's high time for doctors, -once! The chief (a former co-worker, moreover, a subordinate) needs a gesheft. In modern conditions, he is primarily interested in problems
                  profit, profitability, but not welfare, health cooperation. In such conditions HE is set!
                  ..Accordingly, - and we ... I haven't been on vacation for three years!
                  ... And, if you get sick, - count on vacation !! No! - the chef himself works like a devil. A workaholic ... But, in four years, twice (at the insistence of his wife), he visited Crimea ...
                  Absolutely not against! I am against the fact that: "I made an appointment with a doctor ...", "In a car service for ..."
                  - What's the weekend?
                  - "Yes, not everyone works on weekends! And normal people have a queue ..."
                  Sorry, - swept aside (deliberately) ... But!
                  Agree, - (!!!) - not about aircraft carriers should be discussed now.
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 29 August 2021 21: 01
                    -5
                    Quote: AAG
                    And why did I even speculate that there are some problems with the leadership of the Country with the West ?!

                    The fact that he is openly trying to arrange a coup with us is unknown to you?
                    Quote: AAG
                    oh, at the same time, the children of the first persons study, work, be treated in the camp of competitors

                    At one time they poked me with Lavrov's daughter, but when I looked a little at the facts, it turned out that she grew up in the USA, because her father worked there (he is a diplomat), and the family lived with him.
                    Quote: AAG
                    And, all the difficulties, braking, in the Country he perceived as the result of shoving sticks into the wheels from the West.

                    Many are shouting about achievements under Stalin, but if they are now forced to work as under Stalin, then most of these screamers will scream in horror and curse the atrocities of "this power".
                4. Vladimir1155
                  Vladimir1155 30 August 2021 11: 19
                  +1
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  But our partners, for some reason, hate them, unlike those. And the United States is already agreeing to the communists, if only not Putin, why?

                  the hatred of the world behind the scenes is based on the fact that Putin does not give them controlling stakes in Rosneft and Gazprom, wisely believing that after this last return (everything else has already been given) he will be disposed of, as well as the loyal servants of the United States, Miloshovich, Hussein and Gaddafi, here he is and rested, he and his comrades-in-arms want to live and live well, and not be a waste card replaced by another six
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 30 August 2021 19: 18
                    -1
                    Quote: vladimir1155
                    the hatred of the world behind the scenes is based on the fact that Putin does not give them controlling stakes in Rosneft and Gazprom, wisely believing that after this last return (everything else has already been given)

                    Can you see the receipt for all of this?
                    1. Vladimir1155
                      Vladimir1155 30 August 2021 22: 09
                      0
                      Quote: Dart2027
                      return receipt

                      I did not see the receipt, but I saw the bag with the silver pieces ... https://tutuskania.livejournal.com/1879786.html ..
                      1. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 31 August 2021 19: 11
                        -2
                        Quote: vladimir1155
                        https://tutuskania.livejournal.com/1879786.html.

                        And what does he have to do with it? Now other people are in power and Putin is not following in his footsteps.
                      2. Vladimir1155
                        Vladimir1155 31 August 2021 20: 00
                        +2
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Other people are in power now

                        almost the entire elite, Gref Chubais and others, this is the elite put in their places by Gorbachev and Yeltsin, and this elite drives out strangers and allows only like-minded people to power
                      3. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 31 August 2021 21: 15
                        0
                        Quote: vladimir1155
                        and this elite drives out strangers and admits only like-minded people to power

                        And this is what any elite does. In any country there are certain political parties that monopolize everything related to elections. But not all are like-minded people of Gorbachev and Yeltsin.
            2. Revival
              Revival 29 August 2021 15: 07
              0
              You are still trying to add another winning parameter)
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 29 August 2021 15: 19
                -4
                Quote: Revival
                another winning parameter

                As life has shown, this is the main parameter.
                1. Revival
                  Revival 29 August 2021 15: 37
                  +2
                  That is, you claim that we will win not only in terms of the "presence of nuclear weapons" !?
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 29 August 2021 18: 23
                    -1
                    Quote: Revival
                    not only by the parameter "presence of nuclear weapons"

                    Nuclear weapons, science, technology, weapons, etc. these are tools. Yes, they can be useful, necessary and / or irreplaceable, but by themselves they do not solve anything. The main thing is adequate elites at the head of the country and the Soviet model has completely failed itself. The USSR lost not in the economy and not in technology, these are resolvable issues, it lost in the fact that our humanity cannot build communism. Just because that's our nature.
                    1. New Year day
                      New Year day 29 August 2021 19: 13
                      +2
                      Quote: Dart2027
                      our humanity cannot build communism.

                      So capitalism also fails laughing
                      1. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 29 August 2021 21: 01
                        -7
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        So capitalism also fails

                        According to the communists.
                      2. New Year day
                        New Year day 29 August 2021 21: 54
                        +3
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        According to the communists.

                        You are wrong! Even Kudrin admitted it is a dead end laughing Or is Kudrin a secret communist? laughing
                      3. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 30 August 2021 19: 00
                        0
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        Even Kudrin admitted it is a dead end

                        Where exactly?
                    2. Vladimir1155
                      Vladimir1155 30 August 2021 11: 25
                      +2
                      Quote: Dart2027
                      Nuclear weapons, science, technology, weapons, etc. these are tools. Yes, they can be useful, necessary and / or irreplaceable, but by themselves they do not solve anything. The main thing is adequate elites at the head of the country and the Soviet model has completely failed itself. The USSR lost not in the economy and not in technology, these are resolvable issues, it lost in the fact that our humanity cannot build communism. Just because that's our nature.

                      wise saying! why did the Russians succumb to the Horde in 1227, the Poles in 1598, the Bolsheviks in 1917 and the Americans in 1991? because faith is morality, conscience is lost. and these same Russian peasants drove away the horde, the Poles, Napoleon and Hitler? because they remembered the conscience (based on faith in God) the truth and became strong and wise, my personal opinion, this is the answer
                      1. water
                        water 4 September 2021 21: 47
                        0
                        Quote: vladimir1155
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Nuclear weapons, science, technology, weapons, etc. these are tools. Yes, they can be useful, necessary and / or irreplaceable, but by themselves they do not solve anything. The main thing is adequate elites at the head of the country and the Soviet model has completely failed itself. The USSR lost not in the economy and not in technology, these are resolvable issues, it lost in the fact that our humanity cannot build communism. Just because that's our nature.

                        wise saying! why did the Russians succumb to the Horde in 1227, the Poles in 1598, the Bolsheviks in 1917 and the Americans in 1991? because faith is morality, conscience is lost. and these same Russian peasants drove away the horde, the Poles, Napoleon and Hitler? because they remembered the conscience (based on faith in God) the truth and became strong and wise, my personal opinion, this is the answer

                        About the memory of conscience - correctly noted! But I wonder if the Russian people will remember her in the upcoming elections !?
            3. Revival
              Revival 29 August 2021 15: 43
              +2
              Do you think the Chinese or American leadership will betray everything without exception?))
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 29 August 2021 18: 23
                -6
                Quote: Revival
                the Chinese or American leadership without exception will betray everything

                No, but the Soviet betrayed.
                1. Revival
                  Revival 29 August 2021 18: 31
                  +2
                  Well, I did not consider Soviet things in my comments at all
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 29 August 2021 18: 35
                    -3
                    YOU are writing in response to my comment, in which I answer Svarog.
                2. New Year day
                  New Year day 29 August 2021 19: 15
                  +5
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  but the Soviet betrayed.

                  I wonder when the States gained control over the aluminum industry of the Russian Federation along with part of the energy system - is this a betrayal or a victory?
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 29 August 2021 21: 09
                    -5
                    Quote: Silvestr
                    It is interesting when the States gained control over the aluminum industry of the Russian Federation along with part of the energy system

                    The question is what they got. I remember how the enterprises were famously destroyed in the 90s, and Rusal worked as it did. Here's some fresh news.
                    https://www.vedomosti.ru/press_releases/2021/08/02/rusal-vpervie-v-rossii-sozdal-otechestvennuyu-oporu-osvescheniya-iz-alyuminievih-splavov
                    And all the gimmick with stocks was connected with international trade, and that there really none of us knows.
                    1. Aag
                      Aag 30 August 2021 19: 13
                      +1
                      Quote: Dart2027
                      Quote: Silvestr
                      It is interesting when the States gained control over the aluminum industry of the Russian Federation along with part of the energy system

                      The question is what they got. I remember how the enterprises were famously destroyed in the 90s, and Rusal worked as it did. Here's some fresh news.
                      https://www.vedomosti.ru/press_releases/2021/08/02/rusal-vpervie-v-rossii-sozdal-otechestvennuyu-oporu-osvescheniya-iz-alyuminievih-splavov
                      And all the gimmick with stocks was connected with international trade, and that there really none of us knows.

                      Come on!!
                      Of course everything works!
                      The question is for whom? If you look at the hated Wikipedia (looking at the citizenship of the board of directors) ... Well, okay, there are all enemies on the servers ... (by the way, did the RF Ministry of Defense acquire its servers in the required quantity?) ...
                      I hope you, like me, are a patriot of your country, the Russian Federation (although I am dearer to the USSR, I hope this is not sedition yet). If this is so, then there is "nothing but nothing" left to solve 1) What do we want.
                      2) How we will try to achieve this.
                      Thank you for the previous answer to my comment. If you don't mind, I will answer the essence later ... hi
          2. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 29 August 2021 15: 57
            +4
            Quote: Svarog
            30 years have passed .. how much more do you need? What has been done in 30 years?

            You have to wait another 30 years, and then either the donkey will die who believes this nonsense or the padishah who promises it all. And you can go to the next iteration.
          3. Terran ghost
            Terran ghost 30 August 2021 10: 58
            -4
            Of all of the above, only nuclear weapons can be fully attributed to superpower

            Yes, as if in itself is hardly. Pakistan has nuclear weapons, but it is hardly a superpower.
        4. vlad.baryatinsky
          vlad.baryatinsky 29 August 2021 13: 27
          +7
          Quote: URAL72
          After reading this libel, persistent negative associations arise towards his personality.

          The article is literate and touches upon the harsh reality of TODAY'S Russian Navy!
          As for your "inferences" in relation to the Personality of the Author?
          In your case, obviously on the face, PERSONAL hostility, bordering on cynical "objectivity" allegedly to the article.
        5. Kaw
          Kaw 29 August 2021 16: 21
          +5
          As far as I know, aircraft carriers were built in the USSR not for wars in remote territories, but to cover cruisers, which in turn were supposed to protect OUR coast from enemy aircraft carriers. That is, Kuznetsov, it's just the air defense of Peter the Great and that's it. The Soviet cruisers did not have strike weapons for land strikes, unlike the American ones.
        6. Tavrik
          Tavrik 29 August 2021 17: 30
          +5
          We need economic growth and a revival of science.

          So this very thing is not observed. And it is not expected. So forget about greatness.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 29 August 2021 19: 10
            -5
            1.2 trillion rubles are spent on science every year - and there are already results of one of them in the form of creating hypersonic weapons and adopting them for the first time in the world.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 29 August 2021 20: 25
              0
              Quote: Vadim237
              1.2 trillion rubles are spent on science every year

              How much is it from the GDP, and how much do other countries spend from the GDP on science? wink
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 30 August 2021 15: 31
                -3
                And this does not matter, the main thing is what is the return on investments in science - you can invest a million rubles and get a positive result, or you can invest a billion rubles and get a negative result - and on the turnover. Science is primarily a process of satisfying one's curiosity at the expense of public or private funds.
            2. Tavrik
              Tavrik 29 August 2021 20: 30
              0
              1.2 trillion in terms of our corruption is a penny. How much gets to really working teams and how much ends up in the pockets of some Skolkovo / Era is a very interesting question.
              As for hypersonic weapons: I don't believe everything is so smooth. The public still knows this from the media, which will tell you about anything.
              Even if something was created, I wang that:
              1. Not completely hypersonic. Somewhere, something "falls short" .... "we pull it by the ears" for the sake of a word of mouth.
              2. Speed ​​is speed, and what are the other advantages? How many kg of explosives does it carry? Well, and the rest of the questions of the possibility of application ... Maybe there are so many conditions for application that fig when they are all created.
              3. How many carriers and what are the conditions for their use? If this is aviation, then in the event of a serious conflict, will they even have time to take off and use it? There is a separate question about target designation.
              4. The price of the issue? It will not turn out, as with the Armata / Su-57: "it is expensive, so it is not necessary"? How many pieces can we make a year? Well, Hitler had amazing pieces of equipment ahead of their time, and that helped a lot?
              5. If everything is so good, why don't we offer it for export yet?
              1. Terran ghost
                Terran ghost 30 August 2021 11: 04
                0
                Well, Hitler had amazing pieces of equipment ahead of their time, and that helped a lot?

                Well, the V-2s were, unfortunately, not in single copies. But they essentially did not help the Nazis. Because Hitler (a Nazi criminal guilty of the gravest crimes against humanity) with maniacal persistence demanded the creation of an offensive weapon, and the situation of 1944-1945 demanded just a completely different weapon - defensive. Anti-aircraft and anti-tank missiles, not ballistic missiles.
              2. Vadim237
                Vadim237 30 August 2021 15: 34
                -1
                I don’t believe it - it’s in the church and in religion - hypersonic aerodynamics heat engineering materials science radar and everything else is exact science. The price of the issue? It will not turn out, as with the Armata / Su-57: "it is expensive, so not necessary"? Already in service with the first and second and third, as well as in mass production.
            3. Terran ghost
              Terran ghost 30 August 2021 11: 00
              -3
              there are already results one of them in the form of creating hypersonic weapons

              That is, in fact, funds are spent not on science and the development of general-purpose technologies, but on purely military projects. The sense from which for the economy ... zero point, zero tenths.
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 30 August 2021 15: 38
                -2
                From which for the economy ... zero point, zero tenths. Especially arms exports - and orders for $ 52 billion can be seen for the economy, too, zero point zero tenths - everything that has been created for the defense industry, new materials, technical solutions for the processing system, equipment, etc., ultimately get widespread use in civil society.
        7. Barberry25
          Barberry25 30 August 2021 14: 00
          +1
          Well, at one time I suggested Timokhin to start building helicopter-carriers PLO on the basis of the UDC / BDK, and later, after the development of the main elements of the aircraft carrier and obtaining the competence to build avics ... years to get an aircraft carrier ... which means we don't need them. By the way, they said the same thing in 5 about MRAPs and UAVs ..
        8. polar bear
          polar bear 30 August 2021 14: 48
          0
          First of all, the Russian Federation is not a superpower, as its GDP is 15 times less than that of the United States. For example, a superpower cannot control 98% of the production of strategic aluminum by a potential adversary, that is, the United States, plus the energy facilities serving them. The superpower does not pass unpopular laws at the behest of the IMF, WTO, EU and US. A superpower would never have given Norway a shelf the size of the White Sea, along with huge reserves of liquefied gas, crabs and commercial fish species. The only two superpowers are China and the United States. Secondly, UDC is not an option. There is no use for the fleet in the air over the sea from it, because there are no fighters, bombers, or PLO aircraft, AWACS. Thirdly, with the existing Putin structure of the state structure, an absolutely corrupt elite with everything behind the hill, laws, taxes, no growth of science and economics is in principle possible, just as the construction of a submarine is impossible for air flights.
        9. Oleg Zorin
          Oleg Zorin 1 September 2021 23: 09
          +1
          It’s even somehow a pity to tell you that this is not 1975 and Russia is not a superpower. See things sensibly
      2. sunzhenets
        sunzhenets 29 August 2021 10: 45
        +7
        The AUG, as a rule, includes one aircraft carrier, from one to four cruisers of guided missile weapons (URO), two to three destroyers or URO frigates, 1-2 multipurpose nuclear submarines (nuclear submarines), carrier-based aircraft, supply vessels.
        Suppose we have built 3-4 aircraft carriers, but this is only the basis of the AUG. Where does the rest come from? Cruisers and destroyers are not built in the Russian Federation.
        1. Doccor18
          Doccor18 29 August 2021 11: 09
          +10
          Quote: Sunflower
          ... from one to four cruisers of guided missile weapons (URO), two or three destroyers or URO frigates ...

          And what is the difference between the cruiser Uro / destroyer Uro / frigate Uro? The size and number of cells for the cr ... well, and the cost, of course. Four or six frigates 22350 are quite capable of forming the basis of the escort forces of the aircraft carrier. Of course 10 kt. a destroyer is preferable for such purposes, but it is not there, and it will not appear soon, however, like an aircraft carrier ...
        2. lucul
          lucul 29 August 2021 11: 28
          -8
          Suppose we have built 3-4 aircraft carriers, but this is only the basis of the AUG. Where does the rest come from? Cruisers and destroyers are not built in the Russian Federation.

          Don't put the cart in front of the horse. Any plane, any ship begins with an engine - there is an engine, there will be both an aircraft and a ship. If there is no engine, there will be no plane or ship.
          When the Americans staged a coup in / in Ukraine, they were well aware of the consequences of the lack of engines in Russia, and for this they were tearing away Ukraine.
          Russia will have its own line of engines - there will be all types of equipment.
          The Communists won, having placed half of the USSR engine building in / in Ukraine - in fact, they threw hundreds of billions of dollars down the drain.
          1. Tavrik
            Tavrik 29 August 2021 17: 33
            +4
            The Communists won, having placed half of the USSR engine building in / in Ukraine - in fact, they threw hundreds of billions of dollars down the drain.

            I knew that the "godless damned commies" were to blame again!
            And what were the reasons not to place motor building in the Ukrainian SSR? No one could even imagine that the USSR would collapse.
          2. New Year day
            New Year day 29 August 2021 19: 19
            +7
            Quote: lucul
            The Communists won, having placed half of the USSR engine building in / in Ukraine - in fact, they threw hundreds of billions of dollars down the drain.


            Thank God, the Pechenegs and the Polovtsy and Nicholas II were left alone laughing
    2. Finches
      Finches 29 August 2021 07: 18
      -22
      Mind does not understand Russia,
      No yardstick to measure:
      She has a special feature -
      You can only believe in Russia ...


      It was so two hundred years ago, it is now and will, most likely, always!
      1. Cosm22
        Cosm22 29 August 2021 08: 29
        +32
        Is that all you can say about the essence of the article?
        Not much...
        You can, of course, remember Tyutchev. But you can also Griboyedov.
        Faith, it is, of course ... Without faith today we can go nowhere.
        For "blessed is he who believes. Warmth to him in the world." Here are just the interpretation of this expression sometimes raises doubts. Such, for example: "happy is the one who builds his relationship to something or with someone on the basis of heartfelt affection, attraction, thoughtless, uncritical trust, and not mental work, the essence of which is in the analysis of facts and actions, pros and cons, merits and demerits. "
        The novel, in contrast to the thoughtless belief in a certain miracle, gives an absolutely clear and clear analysis.
        I will comment on his article with one phrase - now practically everything that did not get from the USSR is unsolvable problems.
        1. Finches
          Finches 29 August 2021 08: 33
          -13
          I don’t comment on Roman - we have different views on life laughing , but in essence the article, I allegorically, but all I wanted to say, I said hi
        2. paul3390
          paul3390 29 August 2021 10: 40
          +16
          now practically everything that did not get from the USSR is unsolvable problems.

          It is difficult for the natives to exist on the ruins of an ancient high-tech civilization .. They seem to see pyramids, they really want the same, but - always comes out a heap of rubble, poured in the shape of a pyramid ..

          And if you remember that the USSR did not produce anything besides galoshes, the situation becomes even sadder ..
          1. Doccor18
            Doccor18 29 August 2021 11: 12
            +9
            Quote: paul3390
            And if you remember that the USSR did not produce anything besides galoshes, the situation becomes even sadder ..

            For it is not clear where the "pyramids" came from ...
          2. Dart2027
            Dart2027 29 August 2021 12: 00
            -3
            Quote: paul3390
            And if you remember that the USSR did not produce anything besides galoshes, the situation becomes even sadder ..

            Yes, my dear, yes. No need to discuss. The fact is that what we produced (and we don’t have to wave our hands), nobody needed, because nobody bought our galoshes, except for the Africans, who had to walk on the hot sand. That is the whole point.
            We had a defense industry - cool, strong, and we are still proud of it. We are grateful to our grandfathers and our fathers for creating such a defense after the Great Patriotic War.
            From the audience: ... And the first satellite.
            Vladimir Putin: Both the first satellite and the first man in space are our common pride, these are the achievements of the Soviet government, of which we are all proud. These are nationwide achievements.
            But consumer goods ... Zhirinovsky has already said this. Where were they? There were none. Let's not lie to each other and the people. The people know what was and what was not.

            Stop lying enough?
            1. paul3390
              paul3390 29 August 2021 12: 03
              +9
              Let's. That is - you, following your idol on a blue eye, claim that the USSR did not produce a consumer goods type at all? And which of us is lying?
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 29 August 2021 12: 16
                -9
                Quote: paul3390
                That is - you, following your idol on a blue eye, claim that the USSR did not produce any type of consumer goods at all?

                So you have reading problems? It happens.
                Quote: Dart2027
                the thing was that what we produced (and no need to wave your hands), no one needed

                That is, there were certainly consumer goods, but their quantity and quality was the minimum necessary.
              2. El Chuvachino
                El Chuvachino 29 August 2021 12: 47
                -5
                I certainly did crazy queues for goods.
                1. Harry.km
                  Harry.km 29 August 2021 14: 57
                  -5
                  And the "sausage" train? There was also such an invention of the civilization of socialism under construction ...
          3. Vadim237
            Vadim237 29 August 2021 19: 15
            -1
            Your highly developed civilization could not create normal civilian products - and to talk about high-tech - the USSR bought high-precision processing centers from capitalist countries.
      2. Snusmumrik
        Snusmumrik 29 August 2021 12: 01
        +5
        On matters of faith, this is the church.
    3. smart ass
      smart ass 29 August 2021 09: 32
      +6
      For me, aircraft carriers are outdated and will go down in history as battleships.
    4. Sam-07
      Sam-07 30 August 2021 13: 08
      0
      Quote: antivirus
      it is good when there is a fantasy .. everything is ahead ... and carrying feet forward ... and victories ... and world domination.

      what about Western bankers who are against the Russian hegemon?

      like in a joke about Voronezh ...
  2. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 29 August 2021 04: 28
    -10
    Roman, you are often criticized for the fact that such articles go under the slogan "everything is lost."
    To be honest, I am not a supporter of this topic in any direction, but the "funeral" of any of the industries is not mine.
    We don't know ALL the nuances. Maybe, it is corny, there is not enough funds now, or maybe someone "sees" that they will not be enough "tomorrow".
    Yes, it is easy to "wave a saber" while sitting at a computer. It is hard then, how to preserve the overwhelming legacy in the 90s.
    Topic ... Multifaceted, or what?
    1. Gardamir
      Gardamir 29 August 2021 08: 27
      +35
      Maybe trite, there is not enough money


      How much money has been invested in the Yeltsin Center?
      Artem Chechikhin, the grandson of the head of the Russian Guard, Viktor Zolotov, is a partner of AirBitClub. Last year, the Securities and Exchange Commission fined the company for organizing a pyramid scheme. 18-year-old Chechikhin lives and studies in the UK. He spent his childhood in Barvikha, celebrating his majority in the restaurant "Berezka Chalet" on Rublevka. Several years ago he was sent to the prestigious Cranleigh School, an hour and a half from the British capital. Training here costs about 3 million rubles. in year.

      And you have no money. There is no desire to develop Russia.
      1. Doccor18
        Doccor18 29 August 2021 08: 49
        +25
        Quote: Gardamir
        There is no desire to develop Russia.

        That's right.
        And the aircraft carriers have nothing to do with it ...
    2. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 29 August 2021 10: 43
      +15
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      We don't know ALL the nuances. Maybe, it is corny, there is not enough funds now, or maybe someone "sees" that they will not be enough "tomorrow".
      Yes, it is easy to "wave a saber" while sitting at a computer. It is hard then, how to preserve the overwhelming legacy in the 90s.
      Topic ... Multifaceted, or what?

      It must be admitted that in the XNUMXs the Russian Federation simply bathed in money, but did not build anything sane.
      This article is a tip to the topic, but what can we do? If we discard the wet dreams of the baragozin family about Mars, then nothing but talk about netanalagavnetics, which raise the morale of the couch fighters and pour oil on their phantom pains according to their former greatness.
      Until the citizens (who have yet to become) understand the simple thing that the USSR was not dismembered in order for its fragments to become great and everything goes to a deplorable ending, then this very ending will become closer.
      What the hell are the AUGs, if the 2020 program is not even close, and the country is dying out at a catastrophic pace and we can no longer put out forest fires.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 29 August 2021 19: 21
        -2
        Or maybe you still wonder what in Russia in 2000 they built what they invested in - and to whom they gave their debts, and at the expense of "the Russian Federation just bathed in money in the XNUMXs" they spun coolly - there was money, but not in such quantities that it would swim in it.
      2. Polar
        Polar 30 August 2021 03: 35
        -3
        The USSR (or rather, the Russian Empire) was dismembered by the Bolsheviks, introducing (preserving; strengthening; no matter) the division into national republics instead of dividing into impersonal states / districts, as in the United States, which we do not like. And what a chance to modify the empire. The main driver of the collapse of the USSR was unredeemed nationalism, the rest of the factors were the catalyst. Now they are trying to somehow correct this by introducing enlarged districts, it is clear that it is too late.

        Regarding what we have failed in terms of independence, security, etc. - failed many things. The aforementioned seed fund is still flowers, forgive the pun. But the lack of production in the country of modern element base for electronics is already serious. And surely, after all, they were entrusted with some oligarch under the responsibility (they say, we are you, and you won't let you down there), but where is this oligarch - in the same place. We cannot make an ordinary normal diesel engine, however, rocket engines are still being produced. Aircraft engines ...

        The feeling is that they just woke up. They are really trying to catch up on almost all fronts. Just what have you been doing for the last 20 years? Well, yes, Russia was saved from collapse, really a historical merit, but then what did you do for 20 years? It so happens that it is already impossible to catch up.

        The worst troubles, in my opinion, are demography and human capital in general. And there is no direct correlation between living standards and fertility. Nowhere in the world does it work so simple and flat. The highest birth rate in very poor countries. And in many rich people it is falling rapidly. Russia has the highest birth rate in the poorest regions. Fertility requires a moral foundation. In manipulative terms, ideology. Muslims have Islam, for example.

        Was at the VW plant in Kaluga. There aren't any particularly impressive robots or anything like that. There are colorful lines on the floor and calm order everywhere. The Germans, of course, run everything. Take away their robots and other equipment - in six months everything will be the same again. Let anyone know the most modern equipment - in a week there will be a mess everywhere. This is what human capital is, and it begins not even from school and kindergarten, but from the attitude towards raising children.

        Sorry for the long comment, I write rarely, I got it. About GDP). We overestimate the capabilities of one person, probably. Well, who will give him or someone else to do whatever he wants? You have to rely on someone. If you do not fit in at all, they will quickly be removed, like Stolypin and many others. You have to balance. But yes, from the situation it would be necessary to squeeze everything that is possible. Maybe give us some quiet time to grow meat? Let's criticize our own people, fix them. If necessary, then harder. But I don’t believe in the hysterical (not a typo) necessity of revolution and war, everything was already there.
        1. Terran ghost
          Terran ghost 30 August 2021 11: 14
          -3
          Well, yes, Russia was saved from collapse, really a historical merit

          B.N. Yeltsin. In the first half of the 1990s. In 1999 - early 2000s, there was no longer any "risk of the country's disintegration".
          And there is no direct correlation between living standards and fertility. Nowhere in the world does it work so simple and flat. The highest birth rate in very poor countries. And in many rich people it is falling rapidly. Russia has the highest birth rate in the poorest regions. Fertility requires a moral foundation. In manipulative terms, ideology. Muslims have Islam, for example.

          In theocratic Iran, the total fertility rate is also low. European, not African level.
          In fact, everything is simple. The modern high-tech civilization does not need high birth rates. The question is purely economic. In traditional (primitive) agriculture, a child became a labor force in the family economy at the age of 6-7 years. Now, from the birth of a child to the beginning of his independent labor activity, 18-24 years pass.
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 30 August 2021 19: 20
            -5
            Quote: Terran Ghost
            In 1999 - early 2000s, there was no longer any "risk of the country's disintegration".

            The disintegration should have started with Basayev's invasion of Dagestan, but "something went wrong."
    3. The comment was deleted.
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 29 August 2021 11: 40
        +1
        Quote: lucul
        All at once, as if preparing for the appearance and waiting.
        You cannot collect them at all under other articles, especially under those that Russia is adopting something new

        In a very good novel by V. Alekseev "Satisfy my grief" the thought of the disproportionate punishment for a perfect offense in Russian history comes through as a refrain. Because this is the easiest way to look in all white, but on a white horse ... lol
        1. lucul
          lucul 29 August 2021 11: 46
          -4
          Because this is the easiest way to look in all white, but on a white horse.

          That is yes.
      2. New Year day
        New Year day 29 August 2021 19: 28
        +4
        Quote: lucul
        especially under those that Russia is adopting something new

        In addition to weapons, what can you offer the country? - Adequate pensions, normal education and health care, no inflation and carrot prices lower than the price of bananas?
        You can not! A real fight against embezzlement? - You can't! 25 million new jobs and catch up with Portugal? - You can't again! And what for your missiles, when it is worth chopping off everything foreign, oil and gas and everything ... The history of the USSR has not taught anything, you like to get a rake on your face
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 30 August 2021 15: 46
          -1
          The share of oil and gas industry in the structure of Russia's GDP is 19% - but in the budget it is 30%. "When it is worth cutting off everything foreign, oil and gas and everything ..." This cannot be done because there is simply no alternative to our supplies and will not exist. And the most important thing is that Russia now has what the USSR did not have, these are quite decent reserves for a rainy day and we have the opportunity to exchange rubles abroad to buy something with Soviet rubles in capital countries, it was impossible - for this the USSR was chasing currency. "The history of the USSR has not taught anything, you like to get a rake on your face" - Only you have taught everyone that you are lagging behind in life.
    4. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 30 August 2021 11: 34
      0
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      Maybe, it is corny, there is not enough funds now, or maybe someone "sees" that they will not be enough "tomorrow".

      it is banal if taxes exceed 100 percent, then no business will have enough funds, and it will be sold to Americans who print money without limit, for this purpose, and such taxes so that all interesting businesses in the Russian Federation become American property, and the proceeds from these taxes are utilized (sanitized according to Kudrin's liberals) in the same place, in the USA, a closed circle
  3. ximkim
    ximkim 29 August 2021 04: 28
    +6
    Maybe in the next life we ​​will build AUG? In this life, evens do not work.
    1. lis-ik
      lis-ik 29 August 2021 06: 32
      +18
      Quote: ximkim
      Maybe in the next life we ​​will build AUG? In this life, evens do not work.

      Well, how will it turn out when the authorities have different goals? Corvettes and frigates have been built for decades, moreover, it turns out that corvettes, for the sake of friends, with practically no working air defense, the backlog of the union is over, it is impossible to modernize indefinitely, and there is nothing of our own, except for promises and layouts, moreover, the remnants of the working military-industrial complex are systematically bankrupt and destroyed.
      1. I am not a robot
        I am not a robot 29 August 2021 10: 02
        -11
        what are the goals of the authorities?
        corvettes have been built for decades not by the authorities, but by ordinary workers and engineers, you can do it faster, you probably need to get a job at a factory and show how to do it
        1. lis-ik
          lis-ik 29 August 2021 13: 04
          +7
          Quote: Janerobot
          what are the goals of the authorities?

          Siphon off as much as possible from the country in the literal and figurative sense, hold out as long as possible at the helm by any means for see paragraph one, place the loot abroad, having previously settled their families there, have dual citizenship, etc. They will not develop production, this is a long investment and deferred profit, but they need everything at once, it means only trade in raw materials (not even processed), which is what is happening.
          1. I am not a robot
            I am not a robot 29 August 2021 17: 07
            -4
            well, these are just slogans, of course some kind of nonsense
            1. lis-ik
              lis-ik 29 August 2021 21: 03
              +1
              Quote: Janerobot
              well, these are just slogans, of course some kind of nonsense

              These are realities, you have slogans.
    2. lucul
      lucul 29 August 2021 11: 35
      -4
      Maybe in the next life we ​​will build AUG? In this life, evens do not work.

      Putin was led somehow to the model of the aircraft carrier. He asked - can anyone clearly explain why Russia needs an aircraft carrier - none of the admirals surrounding Putin at that moment could answer anything.
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 29 August 2021 14: 43
        -1
        Quote: lucul
        He asked - can anyone clearly explain why Russia needs an aircraft carrier - none of the admirals surrounding Putin at that moment could answer anything.

        So I'm talking about the same thing - well, no such situation is foreseen for Russia in the future, which it could solve with the help of aircraft carriers. But with the help of other types of weapons, it is very quick and easy to roll any country into asphalt or, in extreme cases, into radioactive glass. And why does a goat need a button accordion?
        The admirals know this very well, so they are silent in a rag, so that they themselves will not be taken to the military council in the Ministry of Defense as upstarts if one of them tried to sell Putin the idea that we will not live without aircraft carriers.
        1. lucul
          lucul 29 August 2021 14: 56
          -8
          But with the help of other types of weapons, it is very quick and easy to roll any country into asphalt or, in extreme cases, into radioactive glass.

          That is yes.
          By the way, watch the trailer for the new film - "Sky", I recommend.
        2. Dart2027
          Dart2027 29 August 2021 15: 21
          -4
          Quote: ccsr
          So I'm talking about the same thing - well, no such situation is foreseen for Russia in the future, which it could solve with the help of aircraft carriers.

          So building them for more than one year ... To put it mildly ...
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 30 August 2021 13: 42
            -1
            Quote: Dart2027
            So building them for more than one year ... To put it mildly ...

            The fact of the matter is that while they are being built, the flight time will decrease, and we, in principle, will not need these mastodons because of their sluggishness and slowness, and with a limited range of aviation.

            Quote: Andrey Chizhevsky
            That is why admirals are bleating about aircraft carriers - the opportunity to cling to the state feeder will be more luxurious.

            This is, of course, roughly said, but essentially true. Although they also understand that for this "initiative" they themselves can receive a penny and fly out of service, they do not really extend to this topic. But they willingly throw up similar theories to various Timokhin and Klimov, who, foaming at the mouth, will prove to the public that without aircraft carriers we are complete kirdyk. Here we have seen this repeatedly in various topics about the fleet.


            Quote: Silvestr
            and another Accountant will arrive and everything will be like near Mariupol. Who will bomb their houses?

            Well, why is this nonsense, explain? That the problem with Ukraine can be solved only with the help of aircraft carriers? You actually think when you give stupid examples.
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 30 August 2021 19: 02
              -2
              Quote: ccsr
              The fact of the matter is that while they are being built, the flight time will decrease

              This is true, but air-to-ground missiles will also be improved.
        3. Andrey Chizhevsky
          Andrey Chizhevsky 29 August 2021 15: 45
          +2
          That is why admirals are bleating about aircraft carriers - the opportunity to cling to the state feeder will be more luxurious. Does the Russian Federation need AUG? For a flag demonstration? Expensive (very expensive) pleasure. In addition, the doctrine is defense - and aircraft carriers are offensive weapons. The fleet must of course be replenished with new ships - but the pace of construction of these ... It is very sad ...
        4. New Year day
          New Year day 29 August 2021 19: 31
          +3
          Quote: ccsr
          But with the help of other types of weapons, it is very quick and easy to roll any country into asphalt or, in extreme cases, into radioactive glass.

          laughing and another Accountant will arrive and everything will be like near Mariupol. Who will bomb their houses?
  4. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 29 August 2021 05: 43
    +5
    Roman ... and where is the continuation of the cycle about railways?
    What are the requisites and the day for putting in order the monument in Yelets?
    It's easier than building an aircraft carrier, we know how ... you don't have to stop halfway
    1. Exval
      Exval 29 August 2021 09: 59
      +8
      The author of the cycle about railways was not Roman, but me.
      1. Andrey VOV
        Andrey VOV 29 August 2021 13: 05
        -2
        Well know Roman will excuse me .. in the end, when to wait for the continuation?
        1. Exval
          Exval 29 August 2021 23: 25
          0
          I ended this cycle by discarding the idea of ​​the final article.
          1. Andrey VOV
            Andrey VOV 30 August 2021 09: 10
            0
            It's a pity, but the decision is yours, and any decision must be treated with respect
      2. Motorist
        Motorist 29 August 2021 15: 15
        0
        Quote: Exval
        The author of the cycle about railways was not Roman, but me.

        Andrey VOV apparently means an article about optimization:

        https://topwar.ru/185503-1520-optimizacija-vrednaja-ili-smertelnaja-zateja.html#comment-id-11679376
  5. Sirocco
    Sirocco 29 August 2021 05: 47
    +19
    Read the article, what can I say? A set of phrases and letters, what exactly did the author want to say, his sentences? I did not understand, all this can be said in a few phrases, the country was de-industrialized, competent specialists and personnel were lost, the education system was destroyed, therefore, there is nowhere to get competent workers and engineers. Who is guilty? The modern capitalist system of the Russian Federation which has merged with Western sharks.
    1. Cosm22
      Cosm22 29 August 2021 08: 35
      -5
      Sorry, but who is to blame for the fact that "competent specialists and personnel are lost"?
      Capitalist sharks?
      Or the people who carried in their pocket a red book with the inscription "The Communist Party of the Soviet Union"?
      1. tatra
        tatra 29 August 2021 08: 53
        +5
        One of the main qualities of the enemies of the communists, who seriously think that you are more than the communists and their supporters worthy of owning the country is your fantastic cowardice, fear of the slightest responsibility for what you did under Soviet power, and during your Perestroika, and for 30 years after you captured the republics of the USSR.
        1. Cosm22
          Cosm22 29 August 2021 09: 38
          +6
          Sorry again, but who started this Perestroika?
          Isn't that the man who carried at his heart a red book with the inscription "The Communist Party of the Soviet Union"?
          And the second question: which of the current leaders of Russia, holding responsible posts in the leadership of today's Russian Federation, was not at one time the happy owner of a party card?
        2. bk0010
          bk0010 29 August 2021 09: 59
          -1
          Ha, again Tatra cowardly refuses to admit the communists' guilt in the collapse and plundering of the USSR, cowardly blaming everything on some enemies of the communists. A shame!
          1. paul3390
            paul3390 29 August 2021 10: 42
            +12
            Don't write nonsense? Having a party membership card does not make a person a communist, only his deeds. Well, which of the same Putin was a communist ?? And from Chubais or Gaidar there?
            1. lucul
              lucul 29 August 2021 11: 40
              -6
              Don't write nonsense? Having a party membership card does not make a person a communist, only his deeds.

              That's the main mistake))))
              Previously, only ideological ones were admitted to the party, and then, when it became in power, all the crooks climbed into it en masse. And the fault of the communists is that they could not filter out such people.
              Until there are ideological communists, there will be no popularity among the party.
              And then there is Grudinin - a communist millionaire !!! )))) It's like hot ice or cold flame)))) Incompatible things.
              1. paul3390
                paul3390 29 August 2021 11: 54
                +11
                And the fault of the communists is that they could not filter out such people.

                Too many truly ideological communists went to the Second World War. Supercritical number. And they didn’t have time to bring up the new ones .. That’s all the trash and climbed ..
            2. bk0010
              bk0010 29 August 2021 16: 30
              +3
              Quote: paul3390
              Don't write nonsense?
              I am not writing this to you, but to Tatra personally. I got it already by repeating the same thing in all topics. Everywhere "ha," "cowardly," "enemies of the communists," and so on. Worse than Olgovich. So I decided to mirror her work so that she could see and realize herself from the outside.
          2. tatra
            tatra 29 August 2021 14: 34
            +2
            That is, and you do not recognize the State of the Russian Federation, created by the enemies of the Communists, from the captured RSFSR? How many state criminals do not recognize the Russian Federation, its state symbols, its laws and the Constitution.
    2. spectr
      spectr 31 August 2021 15: 55
      0
      I would call it a "cry from the heart" and longing for the former greatness. When such "monsters" were at the helm of production that even now "the wreckage of the past" we do not look bad.
  6. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 29 August 2021 06: 14
    +8
    That seems to be the main thing and agree with the author, but somehow too EVERYTHING is gone. Cuts off the shoulder and to the right and to the left ... one pearl about the deep modernization of the Yak42 is worth it ...
    It is necessary,
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 29 August 2021 06: 54
      -15
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      but somehow too EVERYTHING he lost

      It's just that he is one of those who are for Soviet power, well, he is engaged in propaganda.
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 29 August 2021 08: 14
        +20
        well, and is engaged in propaganda.
        That is, you want to say that Russian aircraft carriers ply the vastness of the oceans, and the "vile State Department" Skomorokhov pretends that they are not there.?
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 29 August 2021 11: 49
          -4
          Quote: Gardamir
          That is, you want to say that
          the article reflects the rule that Goebbels followed, that it is necessary to tell the truth, but not the whole.
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 29 August 2021 19: 35
          +2
          It is worth asking the question why the hell of Russia in general are aircraft carriers each worth under a trillion rubles and maintenance with maintenance of tens of billions a year each? A platform crisis has now arisen in the world, the larger the combat vehicle, the easier it is to detect and destroy it.With the appearance of long-range hypersonic missiles and anti-ship MRBMs, aircraft carriers are turning into light super-expensive targets with a 99% probability of destruction.
  7. nikvic46
    nikvic46 29 August 2021 06: 36
    +12
    Both in Russia and in the United States, the continuity of designers has been broken. One cannot be a good artist or composer without mastering the classics. The design thought should support from below. And then the question is for an ordinary high school. We can be proud of the Olympiads that our schoolchildren won, while forgetting about the ordinary high school. John F. Kennedy said that the USSR won the space race sitting at a school desk. How many young people in our country go to college after college? And before, after the technical school there was a flow to the institute. And they were competent specialists.
    1. Lepsik
      Lepsik 29 August 2021 07: 34
      -15
      - And earlier after college

      people going to college are already a sign of an average mind. never met people after college. Where do the broad streams come from? Not all medalists have made it into our group.
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 29 August 2021 14: 56
        0
        Quote: Lepsik
        people going to college are already a sign of an average mind. never met people after college.

        I don’t know where you got such “life experience”, but I personally know one former head of a mining and processing enterprise in Magadan, who has been mining gold in mines for many years, having only a mining and metallurgical college behind him and has grown to one of the country's largest specialists in this field. By the age of fifty, he was invited to graduate from the institute, which he did with ease, then they asked him to write a Ph.D. on his topic and head the department of the largest Ural mining institute. But he considered that professional work as a consultant for gold mining companies, including foreign ones, was more interesting and refused. So practical work can give much more than any university, if a person has only a technical school under his belt and a desire to work. I think that many will find such examples - self-education is a great thing if you know what to strive for.
      2. Volder
        Volder 29 August 2021 22: 41
        +1
        Quote: Lepsik
        people going to college are already a sign of an average mind. never met people after college.
        After graduating from technical school, I graduated from two universities. As for the average mind, I don’t think I’m more stupid than you. Kalashnikov created a machine gun when he was almost a schoolboy. Earlier, under the USSR, there were strong secondary schools, colleges and technical schools, and there were few universities. Nowadays, universities have been bred like uncut dogs.
      3. Tavrik
        Tavrik 30 August 2021 19: 17
        0
        Now in sensible technical schools / colleges there is a competition for some specialties (for example, IT, programming) as in higher educational institutions. The passing score is 4.75 (!). Good boys and girls leave after grade 9 for several reasons:
        1. Tired of the school with its confusion (well, yes, the old school teachers quit / died, plus the fountains of insane innovations in the educational process).
        2. The desire to get a specialty and start bringing money into the house rather than sitting on the parents' neck.
        3. The desire to avoid the hassle of the exam. Many people believe that in grades 10-11, knowledge is not given, but simply coached on the Unified State Exam.
        I personally know several people who graduated from technical schools, and then specialized universities. Very smart guys.
        The paradox is that if earlier C / L students were not taken to grade 10, now they are not accepted ... to technical schools.
    2. From Tomsk
      From Tomsk 29 August 2021 07: 46
      +12
      Now they don't even go to college. Finish short courses like nail extension and that's it. Why should we study, they say, if I now earn 5-7 thousand a day.
  8. avia12005
    avia12005 29 August 2021 06: 48
    +14
    I am now plagued by vague doubts: how can I send all the promisers - lovers of the verbs “maybe”, “will” and “will” to the new Siberian cities of Shoigu? It seems that the productivity of their promises will increase dramatically. A?
    1. lis-ik
      lis-ik 29 August 2021 09: 03
      +11
      Quote: avia12005
      I am now plagued by vague doubts: how can I send all the promisers - lovers of the verbs "may", "will" and "become" to the new Siberian cities of Shoigu

      A good offer, only Shoigu is from the same gang, others are not kept there.
  9. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 29 August 2021 06: 50
    +21
    Then came Sunday and the hour when we are glad to see you again and to know:
    And what can we do in modern Russia?

    And the answer will be bleak - a little, or rather, almost nothing ... In short, this will happen due to the created economic and financial situation in the country, when the lion's share of all income goes not to the development and improvement of state institutions, but to unrestrained saturation a gulp of these madmen, who imagine that the only acceptable goal in life is the appropriation of as large a part of social labor, of the nation's wealth as possible ...
    Therefore, we cannot expect from our government quick decisions to diversify the economy. Rather, we will wait for new ways to strip three skins without noticeable effort and violent protest from the skinned.
    1. depressant
      depressant 29 August 2021 15: 16
      +5
      Yuri Vasilievich, good afternoon!)))
      Let's divide into two parts.

      the lion's share of all income is spent not on the development and improvement of state institutions, but on the unrestrained saturation of the mouthful of these madmen who imagine that the only acceptable goal in life is the appropriation of as much of social labor, of the nation's wealth as possible ...

      This is such a democracy for the bureaucracy.
      When there were 10 thousand citizens in Athens who did not work, but were engaged exclusively in communicating with each other in the central square (slaves worked), then all citizens knew each other, and this acquaintance of everyone with everyone was a way to control the democratically elected administration. As soon as slavery disappeared and had to work, while the number of those to whom democratic rule was spread surpassed 10 thousand idle Athenians, the number of people who know at least in the face of all their fellow citizens fell sharply to zero, confining themselves to the close and working circles, then everyone's control over everyone was lost, the bureaucracy became uncontrollable and began to draw into its ranks the most morally unscrupulous, ready for corruption of any kind.
      The main credo of the modern bureaucracy has been formed:
      The development of any available monetary resources for personal needs.
      This is a given. It's useless to swing your fists.
      The intellect must be cold.
      What can we oppose?
      By pulling the immoral into its ranks, the bureaucracy that rules us does not pull the smart ones together. Therefore, the bureaucracy lives in a field of mistakes and absurdities, immersing us, ordinary citizens, in this field. But among us are the clever, rejected by her. Our task is to catch the bureaucracy on its mistakes and to act against them as a united front. Not with a weapon. The current bureaucracy is protected by law enforcement officers, who are much stronger than any militia. Press with a single and powerful opinion, responding instantly to any of the mistakes.
      We don't know how yet.
      Remember how we ourselves passed the pension reform - the very one that was announced long before it began.
      The bureaucracy is afraid of such pressure and reduces the possibilities for its manifestation.
      How so?
      She stopped sharing her plan with us!
      She excluded the discussion of the laws planned for adoption. Not so long ago, the President signed 135 laws. Do you know which ones? No? So I don’t know!
      This is the first pain point. She is no longer a mistake of power, she is a deception. As a weapon, we ourselves have put deception into the hands of the bureaucracy following the results of the pension reform. And the first thing we must demand is that any law must be discussed in advance and adopted or rejected based on the consolidated opinion of citizens.
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 29 August 2021 15: 39
        +5
        Quote: depressant
        Therefore, the bureaucracy lives in a field of mistakes and absurdities, immersing us, ordinary citizens, in this field.

        Hello, Lyudmila Yakovlevna!
        I read it and came to the conclusion that our opinions on the bureaucracy coincide. The only thing that I would like to highlight as a separate point is that the "unbelted" bureaucracy itself invents and approves orders and laws that are convenient for it and completely harmful for the development of society, only because it is isolated from this society by separate offices.
        But, being isolated from the people, officials begin to invent obvious "crap", which for an ordinary citizen looks like nonsense, nonsense. This is probably why none of the citizens is interested in the laws adopted by the State Duma, and generally loses interest in those signed by the president after his words: “Please treat this with understanding”.
        Today I found an interesting video of the conversation of people known to me (and to you, for sure): Andrei Viktorovich, Nikolai Nikolaevich and Angelica Yegorovna. The conversation took place after the telephone conversation made public by Karaulov about the upcoming elections of the same bureaucracy:

        Perhaps you will find confirmation of your beliefs for yourself.
        hi
      2. Doccor18
        Doccor18 29 August 2021 16: 03
        +3
        Quote: depressant
        ... any law must be previously discussed ... or rejected based on the consolidated opinion of citizens.

        And this is how? Who is interested in the "consolidated opinion of citizens" ... Should I write lists, organize online voting, and what will it give ..?
        1. depressant
          depressant 29 August 2021 18: 50
          +4
          Dear colleague, our pressure in the form of open disrespect for the authorities is already manifesting itself, and the bureaucratic apparatus feels this so much that it is going to run away from us, moving its center to Siberia, and will build the first of the planned cities in the Minusinsk Basin. Not so long ago, I jokingly laid out considerations: a short time for missiles to reach Moscow from the western borders, global warming, which will turn the Moscow region and the Ural Mountains into islands, etc. (a search engine will help find flooding maps). Some users of the VO website came to the same opinion, considering it a very serious argument for the relocation of the center.
          A naive delusion!
          Look at the map of Minusinsk Valley. How many small autonomies adjoin it! And who lives there? Peoples with tribal consciousness, which are able to easily take the position of sacralization of absolute bureaucratic power. And how many more are there nearby? ...
          Pushing the Russians out of there, the rapid return of these peoples to the archaic and the subsequent satisfaction of the archaic demands of these peoples, easily satisfied with the bribery of their leaders with their clans, will dramatically increase the state of security and peace of mind of the bureaucratic center.
          You say that I am a gamer? Chechnya to help you! The experiment has been worked out and succeeded!
          We, Russians, are too Europeans for our government, we are not suitable for it, we are explosive. The joke about the wrong people turned into a serious plan to get rid of us.
          1. Doccor18
            Doccor18 29 August 2021 19: 23
            +4
            Quote: depressant
            ... that he is going to run away from us, moving his center to Siberia, and will build the first of the planned cities in the Minusinsk Basin ...

            Original.
            Quote: depressant

            ... we don't suit him ...

            Yes, ungrateful ones.
      3. paul3390
        paul3390 29 August 2021 16: 42
        +4
        When there were 10 thousand citizens in Athens who did not work

        The main duty of a citizen in a Greek polis is to take his place in the phalanx at the first whistle. Moreover, having acquired panoply at their own expense. If you cannot stand in a phalanx, there is no citizenship either. Therefore - naturally everyone knew everyone, how could you not know who would cover you with a shield? But how all sorts of mercenaries came into play and the status of a hoplite ceased to be a prerequisite for citizenship - so everything slowly fell down ..
        1. Terran ghost
          Terran ghost 30 August 2021 11: 32
          0
          But how all sorts of mercenaries came into play and the status of a hoplite ceased to be a prerequisite for citizenship - so everything slowly fell down ..

          Not even that much. It's just that traditional polis direct democracy worked well when the number of citizens eligible to vote was small (no more than ten thousand or so). When, in the same Athens, the number of such citizens approached fifty thousand or more .... real power was gained by those who could hire demagogues (professional agitators) and .. special "professional loud shouts". Because the decisions of the People's Assembly were often made by acclamation - that is, they were determined by what (or against what) the assembled citizens shout louder.
          By the way, there is another very interesting historically moment. When, for example, we read about K. Marx's critic of bourgeois democracy, we often forget that in those days when Marx wrote this, in order to have the right to vote, it was necessary to comply with the property qualification. Which in practice limited the electorate only to the number of rich capitalists and landowners.
          Universal suffrage spread only later. And with it, heh, the era of populism in politics.
          1. paul3390
            paul3390 30 August 2021 11: 36
            +1
            Precisely because - the number of citizens was not great in the old days. The hoplite's armor was not cheap, you can't get enough of 50 thousand digs. And the hoplite citizen clearly understood his responsibility for all decisions of the People's Assembly, because if there is anything, he is the one to fight. But when the plebs multiplied, who had the right to vote but did not answer with their skin for the consequences, the demagogues drew themselves up ..
            1. Terran ghost
              Terran ghost 30 August 2021 11: 45
              0
              plebs, who had the right to vote but did not answer with their skin for the consequences

              But the plebs also paid taxes on the maintenance, including of the same army. It just turned out that the salaried regular army is usually better prepared than the militia, in which its soldiers are mainly engaged in productive labor in the national economy.
              1. paul3390
                paul3390 30 August 2021 11: 49
                +1
                And what difference does it make to the plebs whether the army is at war or not? Pay taxes anyway, but you don't have to go to war yourself. This greatly influences the decision-making.

                In addition, the militia armies of the Greek city-states fully corresponded to their time, it was still far from the regular army, because none of the opponents had it. The exception is Sparta, but she was absolutely not inclined towards territorial expansion.
  10. Dart2027
    Dart2027 29 August 2021 06: 53
    -16
    But it is impossible to repair "Kuznetsov", because the dock has sunk, which for some reason we cannot raise.
    And what is the point of raising it if it has developed its resource a long time ago?
    In fact, we have an old Soviet-built ship, which required an old Soviet-built dock for repair.
    In fact, it was not of Soviet construction, but purchased abroad. In the USSR, such floating docks were not built.
    At Ukrainian enterprises, which have become as integral part of history as aircraft-carrying ships of a non-existent country.
    Thanks to the national policy of the USSR.
    Yakovlev showed all its capabilities when it could not bring the MS-21 to mass production. The lack of imported components and a complete inability to replace them interfered.
    In general, design bureaus and construction plants that create products that are assembled from various products supplied by other enterprises are not responsible for their production from contractors. So in this sense, the claims are not against the Yakovlev Design Bureau.
    Well, the usual statements for the author that they say only what was in the USSR ... and without it ... Soviet development ... etc.
    1. tatra
      tatra 29 August 2021 07: 24
      +8
      Thanks to the national policy of the USSR.

      Or maybe "thank you" to you, the enemies of the USSR, not only under the spell of "freedom and independence" that divided the USSR into your separate States, but also instilling anger and hatred against each other in them?
      Enemies of the USSR, with their big-big plebeian show-offs, because of which they seriously thought that they were better than the communists and their supporters, were only capable of destroying, destroying, ditching, parasitizing at the expense of the USSR's legacy, exported natural resources and raw materials, imports, handouts of the West.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 29 August 2021 07: 40
        -5
        Quote: tatra
        The enemies of the USSR, with their big, big plebeian show-offs, because of which they seriously thought that they were better than the communists and their supporters, were only capable of destroying, destroying, ditching, parasitizing ...

        Tell me, Khrushchev, Brezhnea, Gorbachev, Yeltsin - were they communists?
        1. tatra
          tatra 29 August 2021 07: 54
          +4
          Or maybe that's enough, every time I write about the enemies of the communists, in response to me it is cowardly to "switch the arrows" to the communists?
          The enemies of the communists are capable of creating a bunch of problems for their country and people, but they are not capable of solving them, or even honestly discussing them.
          1. Boris55
            Boris55 29 August 2021 07: 56
            -15
            Quote: tatra
            Or maybe that's enough, every time I write about the enemies of the communists

            Maybe it's enough to shield those communists who ruined the USSR?
            Maybe the reason is something else? In the communists themselves?
            1. tatra
              tatra 29 August 2021 07: 58
              -3
              That is, you do not recognize the State of the Russian Federation, created by the enemies of the communists, from the captured RSFSR?
              1. Boris55
                Boris55 29 August 2021 08: 03
                -5
                Quote: tatra
                That is, you do not recognize the State of the Russian Federation, created by the enemies of the communists, from the captured RSFSR?

                I admit that the USSR was destroyed by the parasitic part of the CPSU (the Trotskyists) and it was they who seized power during perestroika. We are still reaping the consequences of this.
                1. tatra
                  tatra 29 August 2021 08: 08
                  +2
                  Ha, what cowardly got out of the answer? If you admit that the enemies of the communists had every right to create their own State -RF, then you must admit that the enemies of the communists in their anti-Soviet / anti-communist Perestroika captured the USSR, divided it among themselves against the will of the majority of voters in a referendum on the preservation of the USSR.
                  Otherwise, the enemies of the communists, like the occupiers and colonialists, want to own the country, but do not want to bear the slightest responsibility for the country and the people, for what they have done to them.
                  1. Boris55
                    Boris55 29 August 2021 08: 14
                    -10
                    Quote: tatra
                    Otherwise, the enemies of the communists, like the occupiers and colonialists, want to own the country, but do not want to bear the slightest responsibility for the country and the people, for what they have done to them.

                    You, not wanting to admit that the Communists (Trotskyists) destroyed the USSR and came to power after the 90s, you thereby stood up to their defense. You fiercely defend the destroyers of the USSR. Do you understand this?
                    1. tatra
                      tatra 29 August 2021 08: 23
                      0
                      That is, the State of the Russian Federation was created by the Trotskyists? And Yeltsin, Putin, Medvedev, Trotskyists for you?
                      1. Boris55
                        Boris55 29 August 2021 08: 27
                        -8
                        Quote: tatra
                        That is, the State of the Russian Federation was created by the Trotskyists?

                        No. By the beginning of this century, the Trotskyists prepared Russia for dismemberment, which was to begin with the secession of Chechnya from Russia (a year after the signing of the Khasavyurt agreements). In order not to remain the destroyers of the country in history, they decided to substitute a young, as they seemed to them "dummy" (Putin), so that they could transfer all the anger of the people to him. Calculated. Russia is still alive today.
                      2. tatra
                        tatra 29 August 2021 08: 39
                        -1
                        Ha, well, are these Trotskyists communists or enemies of communists? So WHO of them created the State of the Russian Federation, which is guarded by many users of the Military Review? Whose State do they defend - the State of the Communists and their supporters, or the State of the enemies of the Communists? And do not get out with verbiage.
                      3. tralflot1832
                        tralflot1832 29 August 2021 09: 30
                        +2
                        And you, during the reign of the CPSU, did you work or at party meetings promoted slogans. Do you have a well-defined slogan, like the First Secretary of the CPSU of an enterprise, whether or not released?
                    2. Ross xnumx
                      Ross xnumx 29 August 2021 09: 56
                      +7
                      Quote: Boris55
                      You, not wanting to admit that the Communists (Trotskyists) destroyed the USSR and came to power after the 90s, you thereby stood up to their defense.

                      Tell me, you are here breaking lances under the definition of communist-Trotskyists. Let me know where you see the main ideas of Trotskyism: in the inability of the country (USSR) to exist surrounded by capitalist countries (struggle until the victory of the world revolution) or in the inability of the working class to overcome age-old backwardness and build socialism in a single country?
                      Socialism is not a dogma. It is simply obliged to evolve over time, remaining a system (economic formation) in which the economy brings dividends to all citizens, and methods and methods of management can be modified, but the essence of the idea: "everything for man, everything for the good of man" remains unchanged, as well as the power of the people.
                      ==========
                      The times of the NSH and LIB differ from the reign of the HMS and EBN. The presence of nikah party crusts does not affect the personal passionate desires of their owners. The USSR was not a country in which a coup d'état could have happened just like that, without the support of the relevant state structures (compare the attempt to come to power by the State Emergency Committee and the EBN).
                      And then there is the "Napoleon Complex". Is characterized by an overly aggressive demeanor, which is supposed to compensate for the lack of growth. There is also revenge for children's humiliation and insults. Sometimes people went to the police, they go to the police ... Sometimes, having come to power on a wave of protest, they cling to it, not imagining the further development of the country, but holding an old ticket of a member of the CPSU somewhere in the back of the table ...
        2. Gardamir
          Gardamir 29 August 2021 08: 18
          +16
          were communists?


          And Lenin was a nobleman. This game can be played endlessly. By the way, why didn't you mention Stalin on this list?
          1. Boris55
            Boris55 29 August 2021 08: 20
            -14
            Quote: Gardamir
            By the way, why didn't you mention Stalin on this list?

            Because Stalin was a Bolshevik.
            The opposing factions in the Communist Party were Trotskyists and Bolsheviks.
            1. parusnik
              parusnik 29 August 2021 15: 28
              +5
              Because Stalin was a Bolshevik.
              Iosif Vissarionovich, here are the peasants trying to do it for the Bolsheviks or for the Communists? laughing
        3. Fanur Galiev
          Fanur Galiev 29 August 2021 08: 31
          +9
          Good question, by the way. Were these people communists or not? He is probably from that series of questions, whether the members of the Patriots of Russia party (especially the leadership of the party) are real patriots or the communists from the Communist Party of the Russian Federation (especially those who sit in the State Duma) are real communists. Or are modern Cossacks real Cossacks from pre-revolutionary Russia, or are they simple mummers?
          1. tralflot1832
            tralflot1832 29 August 2021 09: 49
            +2
            Do not forget, if you want to move up the career ladder in those days, you must be a member of the CPSU.
          2. Ross xnumx
            Ross xnumx 29 August 2021 09: 59
            +4
            Quote: Fanur Galiev
            Good question, by the way.

            good
            By the way, a good answer is just great.
        4. Doccor18
          Doccor18 29 August 2021 09: 13
          +7
          Quote: Boris55
          Tell me, Khrushchev, Brezhnea, Gorbachev, Yeltsin - were they communists?

          Quote: tatra
          thank you "to you enemies of the USSR

          Couldn't the enemies have been communists? The enemy, the cunning enemy, can disguise himself as anyone, even if he is a "devil", even if he is an "angel." But the enemy will remain so ...
          Many people brought a lot of benefits to the USSR, but they were not communists. Likewise, many communists have brought a lot of harm to the Motherland. A true communist keeps faith in his head and heart, and is learned by deeds, and not by a "communist certificate" ...
          1. Ross xnumx
            Ross xnumx 29 August 2021 10: 14
            +6
            Quote: Doccor18
            The enemy, the cunning enemy, can disguise himself as anyone, even if he is a "devil", even if he is an "angel." But the enemy will remain so ...

            Yes, we know and see this from childhood. Or like this:

            Or in this version:
      2. Dart2027
        Dart2027 29 August 2021 11: 48
        -5
        Quote: tatra
        Or maybe "thank you" to you, the enemies of the USSR, not only under the spell of "freedom and independence" that divided the USSR into your separate States, but also instilling anger and hatred against each other in them?

        So it was not the communists who introduced the system of division into republics, half of which they themselves created? Didn't the communists destroy the USSR?
      3. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 29 August 2021 15: 48
        +3
        Quote: tatra
        parasitize due to the inheritance of the USSR

        The main goal of secession from the USSR, lobbied by this group. True, they, to put it mildly, misled, hoping that Russia will continue to subsidize their economy according to old memory. That is why today they wheeze in latent dislike and open hatred of Russia, a once abundant source of subsidies.
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 29 August 2021 11: 14
      -1
      Quote: Dart2027
      Well, the usual statements for the author that they say ...

      1. The Northern Fleet drowned PD-50 ... NONSENSE! SF did not heat the floating dock. It is Rosneft's figures who have been further optimized to such an extent by 82 SRZs that they have reduced the motor crew of PD-50 diesel operators, without bothering to think about the PD survivability when the power is turned off from the shore ... they did not even buy diesel fuel for the diesel generator ...
      2. We need AB to fight the amami ... And if with shaved ones? Is he no longer needed? And if again some kind of a mess of the Syrian type - with your pants down, order to stand
      3. The aircraft-carrying ships of a non-existent country have remained in history ...
      Oh how! It turns out that the KUZYA no longer exists. Is the Russian Federation not the legal successor of the USSR? But what about the legacy of the great Red Empire? (Wonderful are your deeds, Lord!)
      4. About construction site AB... Baltic Shipyard? But in terms of its infrastructure, it can only build 40 ... And everyone has long been talking about 70 ... But the author does not remember this. Meanwhile, in the Bolshoi Kamen on the Far East, the "Zvezda" is gaining momentum, which is capable of building 450 thousand.
      5. The pace of AB construction - 1/15 years ... But there are other, more competent assessments, about which the author decided not to expand, because there is his opinion!
      MOSCOW, May 18, 2021 - RIA Novosti. A new Russian aircraft carrier can be built in 10 years if the plant and carrier-based fighter are ready, Vladimir Pospelov, a member of the board of the Military-Industrial Commission of the Russian Federation, a member of the Naval Board under the government, told RIA Novosti.

      Alexander Timokhin in his article determined - 2 units for 15-17 years, which, it seems to me, is closer to the truth.
      6. About the cost of construction. 300-400 lard (yes!), But in 10 years! And it turns out 40 lard a year ... A lot, but not critical, as it might seem from Skomorokhov's material.
      Yes, of course, there are problems. And Skomorokhov pointed to them. But they can be solved as the country moves forward. Technologies are being improved, new materials appear, new capacities are being built. But you will not find all this in the author's material. It all ended with the "Soviet period". Therefore, he (with his head turned to his heels) does not see prospects for the future ... And this is "not our method" - as Gaidai's character said ...
      But.
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 29 August 2021 12: 04
        0
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        The Northern Fleet drowned the PD-50 ... SHOOT! SF did not heat the floating dock. These are the figures of Rosneft

        Yes, I forgot to write.
  11. Soldatov V.
    Soldatov V. 29 August 2021 07: 11
    +9
    Normal good article answer. The man revealed all the problems associated with the Russian AUG.
    Another question is what needs to be done to correct the situation. What organizational and technical measures need to be taken. As N.S. Khrushchev - we have a plan, and this is 50% of the work done.
    This is to determine the design bureau for ship and aviation, shipbuilding and aircraft factories where aircraft carriers and aircraft will be built. Overall, this will give a great technical and economic boost. This will reduce unemployment, and smart, tech-savvy people will find jobs to their liking.
    YAK-141 is too early to write off. Most importantly, he was made and he flew and sat on the deck. It can be taken as a basis, there is also a Transportnik, maybe the speed is too small, this is TVD-2 of Novosibirsk.
    The main reason why they do not build (maybe correctly) is the absence of a sane strategic naval doctrine. And the second who owns the factories and design bureaus, do they need this problem with aircraft carriers and carrier-based aircraft?
    1. Peter is not the first
      Peter is not the first 29 August 2021 08: 41
      +4
      Another question is what needs to be done to correct the situation.

      For each separately: To work. And for the country: Do what we do. If the continuity of the designers is broken, if the engineering personnel and working personnel are outdated, then it remains for us to work it all out again through trial and error. And it is necessary to repair our outdated aircraft cruiser, since so far only on it can we teach people to work with such equipment, take off and land on a real deck at sea, and only there it will be possible to experience something that was not developed in the USSR.
      Only through trial and error will new designers learn to design the IL-112 and MS-21. No matter how bitter it was to realize that the design of a military air cargo truck lags behind what was designed in the USSR, but otherwise the engineers will not gain experience, and I will not get my hand to design "unparalleled", and for the better.
      Until shipbuilders and their allies learn how to quickly and efficiently build RTOs, frigates, corvettes, and then destroyers, you shouldn't even think about building an aircraft carrier. Otherwise, we'll just ruin the whole thing.
      You need to take small steps, but in the right direction and inevitably.
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 29 August 2021 11: 31
      +2
      Quote: V.
      As N.S. Khrushchev - we have a plan, and this is 50% of the work done.
      That is why the "maize grower - kuz'kina mother" almost ruined the economy of the USSR. A plan is a well-developed declaration of intent. And it is not a fact that it will come true if it is not balanced in terms of resources, terms, opportunities and performers ...
  12. KCA
    KCA 29 August 2021 07: 18
    +7
    New fuselage, new avionics, new composite wings, new two engines on the wings, instead of two engines and an APU on the tail, is this just a "deep modernization" that turns the Yak-42 into an MS-21? And what then, in the author's opinion, is the development of a new aircraft? Then the SU-75 being created was just a deep modernization of the SU-7, the numbers were simply added, and so the same plane
  13. Private89
    Private89 29 August 2021 07: 26
    +11
    I look at the top political leadership of the country and I think comrades on the agenda are not aircraft carriers, on the agenda is the improvement of this state!

    Here is an example for medicine, the number of hospitals in the context of 1990-2019


    Let me remind you the number of hospitals in 1913 in the Republic of Ingushetia is about 3 thousand.

    What aircraft carriers their under feudalism can not be, but this is where the bourgeois-oligarchic class in power leads us.
    1. I am not a robot
      I am not a robot 29 August 2021 09: 48
      -7
      The number of hospitals seems to me not an indicator, in our area, for example, there were 5 hospitals and now 1 hospital and 4 of its branches, nothing has changed for the population. at the same time, it turns out that the number of hospitals has decreased by 5 times
      1. Doccor18
        Doccor18 29 August 2021 11: 27
        +8
        Quote: Janerobot
        in our area, for example, there were 5 hospitals and now 1 hospital and 4 of its branches, those are nothing ...

        You see, the city clinical hospital and its branch are not the same thing, to put it mildly. Starting with versatility (the number of narrow specialists), ending with opportunities. Transfer to the rank of "branch" is the first sign of imminent disappearance ...
        1. I am not a robot
          I am not a robot 29 August 2021 11: 32
          0
          I wrote about village hospitals, there have never been narrow specialists here. neither in Soviet times nor now
          1. Doccor18
            Doccor18 29 August 2021 12: 01
            +6
            Much now depends on the region, but in general medicine, especially in rural areas, is experiencing serious difficulties. Even district hospitals are experiencing a shortage of personnel; not every district has a maternity ward, orit, or a morgue. And they carry teams of cn patients from district to district ...

            Quote: Janerobot
            I wrote about village hospitals, there have never been narrow specialists here

            Strange, usually at the district level there was and is the structure of the Central Regional Hospital (central district hospital), and all the rest of the medical. the district institutions were originally branches of the Central Regional Hospital, both in Soviet times and now.
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 29 August 2021 19: 43
              +2
              Yes, paid polyclinics are experiencing a shortage of personnel - and this is in Moscow.
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 29 August 2021 20: 46
                -1
                Quote: Vadim237
                Yes, paid polyclinics are experiencing a shortage of personnel - and this is in Moscow.

                Isn't it because the salaries are so ridiculous?
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 30 August 2021 15: 49
                  -1
                  No - due to the lack of personnel of the required qualifications.
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 30 August 2021 15: 52
                    -1
                    Quote: Vadim237
                    No - due to the lack of personnel of the required qualifications.

                    And there are no personnel, is it because your government has carried out a "successful" reform of the education system? wink
                    But the reason is still in salaries, it is easy to check by the number of people wishing to enroll in medical universities. For the size of the salary at the future place of work directly affects the choice of profession.
      2. alch3mist
        alch3mist 30 August 2021 00: 59
        0
        The number of hospitals seems to me not an indicator, in our area, for example, there were 5 hospitals and now 1 hospital and 4 of its branches, nothing has changed for the population. at the same time, it turns out that the number of hospitals has decreased by 5 times

        And with polyclinics - the same thing. Not that I think this is correct, but it is a fact.
    2. Genry
      Genry 29 August 2021 10: 22
      -7
      Quote: Private 89
      What aircraft carriers their under feudalism can not be, but this is where the bourgeois-oligarchic class in power leads us.

      You seem to be from the commercial party where they support such "non-bourgeois" as Grudinin and promote Navalny's "western" values.

      And don't compare the number of beds, as modern medicine has almost completely changed the way people are treated. For example: a stomach ulcer was in most of the patients in surgery - now they do not "cut", but calmly treat with antibiotics, without going on sick leave. Likewise: nephritis, stones in ..., heart disease. In fact, all inpatient medicine began to shrink to traumatology, congenital organ malformations and complex cases. And the duration of the stay of patients in hospitals has also significantly decreased.
      The way of modern medicine is extended outpatient care.
    3. Dart2027
      Dart2027 29 August 2021 12: 09
      -4
      Quote: Private 89
      Here is an example for medicine number of hospitals

      These numbers have been sorted out more than once. Here's a detailed breakdown:
      https://pikabu.ru/story/dinamika_kolichestva_bolnits_v_rossii_7382424
  14. Lepsik
    Lepsik 29 August 2021 07: 32
    -1
    US technology ran out in 70.
    VA-111 "Shkval" with a speed of 370 km / h, in fact, already in the 70s, the US Navy was buried. Nothing like the United States has created due to a hopeless technological backwardness.
    All aircraft carriers immediately turned into floating troughs, guaranteed and unrequitedly sinking to the bottom. This was also facilitated by the creation of missiles such as the P-700 anti-ship missiles of the Granit missile complex and the P-800 Onyx - since the 80s, the USSR became a leader in the field of supersonic weapons.

    Why does the Russian Federation need these aircraft carriers? Those WWII cavalry? With each AUG (of which there are at most 2 on the move in the US!) 2-2 submarines of the Russian Federation are guaranteed to be carried to the bottom by physicists, squalls, onyxas and other devices with a nuclear warhead.

    an aircraft carrier in our time is a floating trough before the first salvo. It's good to scare African Papuans. Something like an officer's dagger. Nice - but useless.
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 29 August 2021 09: 10
      +9
      Quote: Lepsik
      VA-111 "Shkval" with a speed of 370 km / h, in fact, already in the 70s, the US Navy was buried.

      With a maximum range of 13 km? Without GOS? With a maximum depth of 30 meters? With such parameters, the phrase "buried the US Navy", except for laughter, causes nothing. Therefore, this torpedo was removed from service, due to its complete uselessness.
  15. Boris55
    Boris55 29 August 2021 07: 34
    -8
    Quote: R. Skomorokhov
    And what can we do in modern Russia?

    The question is not that we can - we can do everything, but why do we need what we can.

    Quote: R. Skomorokhov
    But what to do with the problems mentioned above?

    Wrong questioning at the beginning leads to wrong conclusions at the end.

    PS
    The USSR was destroyed by non-nuclear bombs.
    1. tatra
      tatra 29 August 2021 07: 57
      -2
      The USSR was destroyed by the enemies of the USSR, and they themselves recognized this as their crime against the USSR and the Soviet people, therefore, for 30 years, they cowardly dump the responsibility for the destruction of the USSR on the supporters of the USSR.
      1. Yaroslav Zhigulin
        Yaroslav Zhigulin 29 August 2021 08: 52
        +7
        These are the ones who were all in the party?
        1. tatra
          tatra 29 August 2021 08: 59
          +2
          YES, these are the members of the CPSU who instantly "saw the light" during Perestroika and began, together with you, the enemies of the communists, to slander the Bolshevik communists, to justify the crimes of their external and internal enemies, to praise Nicholas II, the kulaks, to plant religion. and whom you have been imposing on the power of Russia and the Russian people for 30 years, bragging about how all of you are with them, "and now it is better than in the USSR under the communists."
          They are the same communists, like all of you "great philanthropists" whom you pose as slandering the communists to justify your capture of the USSR.
      2. Doccor18
        Doccor18 29 August 2021 10: 11
        +10
        Quote: tatra
        ... that is why for 30 years they cowardly dump the responsibility for the destruction of the USSR on the supporters of the USSR.

        Yes, what's the difference now, what and on whom they blame in the media. You yourself know the truth - well, convey it to the younger generation, only in a form that is interesting for them, so that they will be heard and figured out.
        The degenerated party nomenklatura wanted to become bourgeois-masters, transferred the means of production into private ownership and ... capitalism came, ordinary capitalism ... And for thirty years "rules the ball." And to shout here about who destroyed it, the Trotskyists or the communists, is now too late.
        You need to think about how to live on. Is a turn in the future towards socialism possible? What prerequisites are there for this, or are they not, or capital has come to this long-suffering land forever ...
    2. Gardamir
      Gardamir 29 August 2021 08: 19
      +12
      we can do everything,
      But we even buy nails from China.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 29 August 2021 08: 40
        -13
        Quote: Gardamir
        But we even buy nails from China.

        Nails? Do we buy flintlocks there? laughing
        The world switched to screws a long time ago.
      2. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 29 August 2021 11: 45
        -1
        Quote: Gardamir
        But we even buy nails from China.

        But this does not mean that we cannot make them ourselves.
        It's just that for the Far East, Chinese nails come out cheaper than making them in St. Petersburg and taking them across the whole country to K-n-A. Economic feasibility is called. Yes
        1. Gardamir
          Gardamir 29 August 2021 12: 54
          +9
          DV ... K-n-A
          But in Moscow, too, from China.
        2. ALARI
          ALARI 31 August 2021 12: 48
          +1
          Why Peter at once? We are not considering the cities of Vladivostok or Khabarovsk or Nakhodka for what reason? Or have all the metalworking been handed over to the same China for scrap and you have to connect Peter? request After all, we ourselves can make them (nails), this is not electronics.
  16. Bez 310
    Bez 310 29 August 2021 08: 03
    +9
    Normal article.
    The author, using the example of the construction of an aircraft carrier, available
    form shows all the inconsistency of current science
    and production. Sorry, the author is right ...
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 29 August 2021 11: 53
      -4
      Quote: Bez 310
      shows all the inconsistency of current science
      and production. Sorry, the author is right ..

      Without, you get carried away again! You are homosapiens, people with a head, and in the same place - in the crowd of critics. So not good for a thinking brow!
      1. It was our science that made materials for GZO.
      2. It is our science that advanced the farthest in the development of thermonuclear fusion, the creation of a new waste-free cycle for nuclear fuel ...
      3. Ams on our engines fly to the ISS ...
      With production, too, not everything is as bad as some would like ...
      Therefore, my friend, let's count the flies separately from the cutlets ...
      AHA.
      1. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 29 August 2021 12: 13
        +4
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        3. Ams on our engines fly to the ISS ...

        Feed the flies separately from the cutlets.
        RD-180 is "half" of the RD-170, the development of the 70-80s. Those. this is a Soviet development.
        This engine is on the Atlas-5, an excellent rocket at the beginning of the 21st century, now outdated, there will be a couple of dozen launches at most, then it will be replaced with a new Vulcan launch vehicle. On which our engines are not planned.
        The main payload is military satellites, respectively, the main customer is the US Department of Defense. The fact that NPO Energomash named after academician V. P. Glushko is working for the defense of the United States is a fact.
        And many rockets are already flying to the ISS. This morning, Falcon 9 launched a cargo Dragon to the ISS.
        1. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 29 August 2021 12: 19
          +6
          Quote: OgnennyiKotik
          And many rockets are already flying to the ISS. This morning, Falcon 9 launched a cargo Dragon to the ISS.

          You, too, are "EVERYTHING"
          - All this is fiction, there is no Rio de Janeiro, and there is no America, and Europe is not, there is nothing. And in general, the last city is Shepetivka, on which the waves of the Atlantic Ocean break.
        2. Terran ghost
          Terran ghost 30 August 2021 11: 38
          0
          RD-180 is "half" of the RD-170, the development of the 70-80s

          There is one more topic with RD-180. Its patents expired at the end of 2020. Actually, this is a normal, correct and completely fair story - it is the same for any inventions of any country, if anything. That's just ... now the question of the appearance of a Chinese "clone" of this rocket engine and on a completely legal basis ... I'm afraid it's a matter of time.
          And then a question to RK Energia - is there a new version of this engine? Or a new engine to replace the RD-180 for the export market?
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 30 August 2021 15: 51
            -1
            The Americans will continue to buy the RD 180 because with its replacement in the form of BE 4 there are serious technical problems and this engine has never flown and its reliability in practice is zero.
            1. Terran ghost
              Terran ghost 30 August 2021 16: 19
              -1
              The Americans will continue to purchase RD 180 because there are serious technical problems with its replacement in the form of BE 4.

              The Americans, on the other hand, more than successfully fly the Space-X Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy. But I was not talking about competition in the face of BE-9, but about possible competition in the face of a copy of the Chinese-made RD-180 o.O
      2. Bez 310
        Bez 310 29 August 2021 13: 46
        +9
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        It is our science

        Our science, Soviet ...
        I do not argue.
        And I don't want to talk about production,
        I do not see anything that I would be happy about.
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        not all that bad

        This is exactly what I said at the formation of the regiment:
        - not everything is as bad as it seemed ...
        And when people began to discuss their
        achievements, I continued:
        - everything turned out to be much worse!
  17. AML
    AML 29 August 2021 08: 24
    +9
    Quote: Lepsik
    - And earlier after college

    people going to college are already a sign of an average mind. never met people after college. Where do the broad streams come from? Not all medalists have made it into our group.


    This is from a small mind to compare what you know (institute) and what you heard about (technical school). I have both behind my shoulders. And I can say that in some technical disciplines the institute is doing it completely.
    Both formations complement each other.

    For both theses, some of the 'medalists' cry quietly on the sidelines.
    1. Genry
      Genry 29 August 2021 11: 15
      -5
      Quote: AML
      This is from a small mind to compare what you know (institute) and what you heard about (technical school).

      You need to know what kind of work requires a certain level of education. The technical school prepares masters, and the institute prepares engineers, developers, specialists and managers.
      Quote: AML
      And I can say that in some technical disciplines the institute is doing it completely.

      And why the heck did you go to college? Was the technical school not enough? Vaughn at the tire service in general "amateurs" work.
      1. AML
        AML 29 August 2021 12: 30
        +7
        Quote: Genry

        And why the heck did you go to college? Was the technical school not enough? Vaughn at the tire service in general "amateurs" work.


        Like everyone else - under the checkmark :)
        I lost 1 year on the link between technical school plus institute, since I left after grade 8 and entered the institute for the 2nd year without exams.

        I do not see anything wrong with the tire service. If a person is in his place and he likes the job, then why not.
        Most of them have higher education, but there are no specialists. The article is also about this. The country needs specialists, not balabolians.
  18. SARANCHA1976
    SARANCHA1976 29 August 2021 08: 25
    +5
    Squeeze something out of a Soviet development forty years ago ... but actually we have almost all the super new items from the Soviet backlog and nothing like that .. Soviet designers worked for the future, which is what our military-industrial complex now uses
    1. I am not a robot
      I am not a robot 29 August 2021 10: 08
      +2
      the Americans also have almost everything from the developments of forty years ago, and why should we abandon the Soviet backlog
  19. Jonny_Su
    Jonny_Su 29 August 2021 08: 28
    +2
    The MS-21 cannot be a deep modernization of the Yak-42. Well, the maximum development of the ideas of the Yak-42, but this is not the same thing. With AWACS and transport workers, the story is not fast, most likely, they will first build amphibious ships, then they will experiment with the air group. But there is nothing in the announced plans, we must agree with Roman. On the other hand, all discussions about AUG are applications for participation in planning, an even more preliminary stage, there is nothing fundamentally impossible at the existing technological level.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 29 August 2021 19: 46
      0
      MC 21 and Yak 42 have absolutely nothing in common, absolutely different aircraft, ranging from materials to flight range and passenger capacity.
  20. Kolin
    Kolin 29 August 2021 08: 29
    -8
    The author is jumping, the saucepan is ringing!
  21. Vladimir Dmitrievich Burtsev
    Vladimir Dmitrievich Burtsev 29 August 2021 08: 34
    -6
    We must realize that military science and industrial production do not stand still. What was good yesterday is now hopelessly outdated. And aircraft carriers are already yesterday in shipbuilding. If necessary, in a modular way from self-propelled barges, as in the Lego constructor, it will be possible to assemble a sea airfield of any size anywhere in the world ocean. The Americans have already realized that in modern combat operations, when the count goes not even by hours, but by minutes, their aircraft carriers no longer meet modern requirements in terms of their mobility. When their aircraft carriers get to the scene of hostilities, they will have nothing to do there. Modern combat assets with almost one hundred percent capability guarantee the ability to destroy such a huge and slow-moving target by modern standards, such as aircraft carriers. Therefore, the United States, having ruined the creation of ekranoplanes in Russia with the help of Gorbachev, are now quietly switching to ekranoplans themselves. The mobility of ekranoplanes is 10 times higher than the mobility of existing ships. WIGs are not afraid of minefields. And also ekranoplanes have a lot of advantages. And I don’t understand why our respected valiant naval commanders still did not realize all this and blindly continue to copy the outdated projects of the US and NATO ships. The creation and operation of an ekranoplan is 100 times cheaper than an aircraft carrier, and the capabilities of an ekranoplan are much higher compared to an aircraft carrier. 10-20 ekranoplanes will allow Russia to control the situation in the entire world ocean. Asymmetric response to the adversary! Oceanic amphibious aircraft can serve as a significant addition to ekranoplans. They don't need an airfield. The runway for them anywhere in the world ocean. And now our attack missile carriers all the time scurry back and forth for their combat duty. And amphibious aircraft do not need this! Dear, I have strong doubts about the ability of naval commanders to think constructively in the Russian Navy.
    1. Bez 310
      Bez 310 29 August 2021 09: 39
      +6
      Quote: Vladimir Dmitrievich Burtsev
      I have strong doubts about the ability of naval commanders to think constructively in the Russian Navy.

      Who needs the ability to think constructively?
      It takes dedication, and the ability to report and show correctly.
      Remember, the main thing in the Navy is the Main Naval Parade, not
      all sorts of thoughts.
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 29 August 2021 12: 32
      +4
      Quote: Vladimir Dmitrievich Burtsev
      We must realize ...

      Vladimir Dmitrievich! You're just a treasure trove for "criticism"!
      But back to your "rams". So (platitudes, like "progress has gone forward" - we do not consider!)
      1.
      aircraft carriers are already yesterday in shipbuilding. If necessary, in a modular way from self-propelled barges, as in the Lego constructor, it will be possible to assemble a sea airfield of any size anywhere in the world ocean.
      Amateurs are a terrible phenomenon in the navy! You can't even imagine what an aviation complex is at sea, because you yourself have never been there. But you are boldly talking nonsense and it looks like you are even proud! (We sing a song to the madness of the "brave"! - wrote the poet. But this "madness" does not cease to remain so. Yes-ah-ah-ah, here.)
      2.
      The Americans have already realized that in modern combat operations, when the count goes not even by hours, but by minutes, their aircraft carriers no longer meet modern requirements in terms of their mobility. When their aircraft carriers get to the scene of hostilities, they will have nothing to do there.
      1) Avics are very mobile. Especially atomic. And the Yankees do not build others. Therefore - "missed"! bully
      2) it follows from your post that:
      a) AVMs do not participate in the operation (because they still need to "get" somewhere ...
      b) by the time the AVM arrives at the RBD, everything will be ... over with the enemy, and they will have nothing to do there. Then the question is: why should they go there? what for?
      3.
      Modern combat assets with almost one hundred percent capability guarantee the ability to destroy such a huge and slow-moving target by modern standards, such as aircraft carriers.
      The opportunity is there. The ability - well, it seems like - is also there. It remains to realize them at sea. And for this, the minimum is necessary: ​​- to go to D using weapons; get a control center (with an obsolescence period not exceeding the target exit time from the OVMC or R capture of the GOS anti-ship missile system); - to overcome enemy opposition: missile defense / air defense, electronic warfare, camouflage, evasion maneuver, etc.; - to have a serviceable weapon and a workable RC (MSA), after the enemy's impact on you ... !
      And the second thing. AVM is a very tenacious machine. You can't drown her so easily. You can disable it. But it can also be repaired, if, of course, it is stunned without an SBP ...
      About ekranoplans and ocean-going amphibious aircraft is not the topic of Skomorokhov's article. Therefore - let's leave for later, how-thread. Okay?
      Here's a little, what I have to argue on the merits of your post.
      Yours faithfully, hi
  22. Doccor18
    Doccor18 29 August 2021 08: 47
    +6
    Thanks to Roman for the article, but let me disagree.
    And to threaten two dozen of the same old MiG-29K air groups from the Nimitz. It's funny, of course, but true.

    Yes, not funny, but very sad ...
    It is sad that for 30 years they have not been honored to build a replacement for the "Nikolaev shipyards". It's sad that if the Ukrainian and German "partners" hadn't done it, to this day they would have cheerfully run on German diesels and Ukrainian gtu ... (with Ka-31 engines, respectively) ... It's sad that the Turks can build a dock, while we - No. It is sad that for three decades they have not been honored to modernize the deck-mounted Su-33. After all, the Su-35 flies, and is considered quite modern, just like the "painful" MiG-35 ... And why did the Americans make an electronic warfare aircraft based on the F18, but we cannot make it on the basis of the same updated Su-33? Indeed, with electronic warfare systems (judging by the laudatory odes in the media) in Russia, everything is very good ...
    Of course, a ship of the "Kuznetsov" tier is significantly inferior to the "Nimitz / Ford" tier, and the Ka-31 - to Hokai. But having 4 aircraft carriers with Su-33M and Ka-31RLD is better than having nothing. There is no point in focusing on the United States, and the World Ocean Fleet will not be built in the near future. But the presence of two 50-kt. aircraft carriers, 8-12 frigates and the same number of MAPLs in the Pacific Fleet is guaranteed to keep all Japanese revanchism in check.
    Build 4 aircraft carriers of the Kuznetsov level, 18-24 frigates 22350 and the same number of MAPLs, inexpensive PLO corvettes (the maximum number possible for shipbuilding) and several Su-30 air regiments with anti-ship missiles. What is fundamentally impossible for Russia here?
    And the Russian "Ford" with the Su-57K, deck AWACS and UAVs is a very distant prospect, even with close attention from the country's leadership, God forbid, in 20-25 years ...
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 29 August 2021 09: 23
      +6
      To be honest, I do not understand such a violent reaction to the USA AB. In fact, they pose a threat only in the Far East. This threat can be stopped by aviation from ground airfields. Another question is that these seams are complete. The crisis is of a systemic nature and is occurring in all areas.
      1. Doccor18
        Doccor18 29 August 2021 09: 51
        +4
        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        To be honest, I do not understand such a violent reaction to the USA AB.

        I also do not understand it. It is even more incomprehensible to compare the capabilities of the US AUG and the hypothetical AUG of the Russian Navy. Different goals for countries, different goals for the Fleets, different goals for aircraft carriers ...
    2. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 29 August 2021 10: 06
      -11
      Quote: Doccor18
      It is sad that for 30 years they have not been honored to build a replacement for the "Nikolaev shipyards". It's sad that if the Ukrainian and German "partners" hadn't done it, to this day they would have cheerfully run on German diesels and Ukrainian gtu ... (with Ka-31 engines, respectively) ... It's sad that the Turks can build a dock, while we - No

      And what have you, my dear, been doing all these 30 years? What was built during this time? Have you dug a foundation pit for a dry dock near Severomorsk? Or were you engaged in the employment of seafarers and landowners on the occasion of the reduction of the ranks of the Armed Forces?
      Well, you, our liberals, were silent throughout the 90s, why didn't you demand that Berezovsky, Gusinsky, Soskovets and Pashka Grachev put things in order in matters of building the Armed Forces?
      Now sit on your butt straight. And do not pretend to be a caring and quivering intelligentsia, all bursting into tears and groans about the lost former greatness of the "invincible and legendary" ...
      1. Doccor18
        Doccor18 29 August 2021 10: 16
        +8
        Quote: stalkerwalker
        And what have you, my dear, been doing all these 30 years?

        Served the country. In its place.
        And I am not "dear" to you, do not confuse the concept.

        Quote: stalkerwalker
        Well, you, our liberal ..

        Quote: stalkerwalker
        And do not pretend to be a caring and quivering intelligentsia, who all went to tears and groans about the greatness that was lost.

        Who are you talking about, about yourself ..?
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 29 August 2021 10: 23
          -11
          Quote: Doccor18
          And I am not "dear" to you, do not confuse the concept.

          I also politely called. Otherwise they would have been banned ...
          "According to the concepts" just those who live in the same way
          Quote: Doccor18
          Served the country. In its place


          Quote: Doccor18
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          Well, you, our liberal ..

          Quote: stalkerwalker
          And do not pretend to be a caring and quivering intelligentsia, who all went to tears and groans about the greatness that was lost.

          Who are you talking about, about yourself ..?

          This is about you, the current "layer" of the pie, who are only doing that and looking for the guilty. Since this is the most comfortable position - like
          Quote: Doccor18
          Served the country. In its place

          Means badly served. And he himself put his little hands to the current state of affairs. But you, our liberals, do not admit this. You are all clean, from head to toe. At least try it ...
          1. Doccor18
            Doccor18 29 August 2021 10: 27
            +8
            Quote: stalkerwalker
            Means badly served.

            And that's not up to you to decide. The fixer hasn't grown.
            Now I will finish my communication with you, for it is unpleasant.
            1. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 29 August 2021 10: 39
              -11
              Quote: Doccor18
              Quote: stalkerwalker
              Means badly served.

              And that's not for you to decide

              I do not decide anything - not my profile. But I state the fact that you, and others like you, are only capable of shedding tears for crocodiles and looking for the guilty. This is your whole liberal nature. In the spirit of Navalny.
              Quote: Doccor18
              Now I will finish my communication with you, for it is unpleasant.

              I understand... laughing That is why I dunk you with my head in your own dirt and merde, anyhow it was discouraging ...
  23. ccsr
    ccsr 29 August 2021 09: 38
    0
    In general, I agree with the conclusions of the author of the article about the possibility of building new aircraft carriers and carrier-based aircraft, but this statement makes him smile:
    But for this you need nothing at all: a plant (instead of Nikolaev, where TAVKRs were built), docks for maintenance, and other infrastructure. Yes, I read all these arguments that we have where to build, except for laughter, they do not cause anything else. Because they also abound in vague "if we build", "we just need ..." and so on.

    While in Kerch, Skomorokhov did not even bother to study how things are with the Kerch plant "Zaliv", where not only an aircraft carrier can be built in a dry dock, but in Soviet times, tankers were built under 300 meters and a displacement of over 150 thousand tons.
    So Russia has the capacity to build an aircraft carrier, but there is no need for such a construction - in this I agree with the author of the article.


    1. Bekasov Artem Andreevich
      Bekasov Artem Andreevich 30 August 2021 14: 52
      +1
      Quote: ccsr
      While in Kerch, Skomorokhov did not even bother to study how things are with the Kerch plant "Zaliv", where not only an aircraft carrier can be built in a dry dock, but in Soviet times, tankers were built under 300 meters and a displacement of over 150 thousand tons.
      So Russia has the capacity to build an aircraft carrier, but there is no need for such a construction - in this I agree with the author of the article.

      Do not forget about the Zvezda shipyard in Bolshoy Kamen, where a dry dock of 500x100x14 m has already been commissioned!
  24. V means B
    V means B 29 August 2021 09: 43
    +1
    The author insults the author, interestingly.
  25. stalkerwalker
    stalkerwalker 29 August 2021 09: 57
    -16
    The author, with all his furious force of liberal thought, walked through the Russian military-industrial complex. They say the vile ones are not suitable for anything. They do not know how ... Although in the text itself it is clear that not just the rupture of cooperation during the Soviet era influenced the deplorable state of both the army and the navy and the defense industry, but also the political confrontation with today's Ukraine after the Maidan forces many types of military and double products to be produced from scratch. values, instead of those supplied by Motor Sich et al.
    And now we have to proceed from the strategy of "reasonable consumption" of state funds allocated for the construction of the Armed Forces. And in the days of the ever-memorable USSR, the means were far from always available to create essentially normal conditions both in the social sphere and in matters of updating the equipment and weapons of the army and navy. It is even impossible to compare the living conditions and living conditions in garrisons and in military cities now, today and then.
    And even more so, do not forget that in matters of both the budget and the cost of defense, we are both to China and to the United States on foot to the moon. And not only in terms of material, but also technologically.
    1. sunzhenets
      sunzhenets 29 August 2021 11: 07
      +10
      Quote: stalkerwalker
      The author, with all his furious force of liberal thought, walked through the Russian military-industrial complex.

      Mom dear, what's going on in this world. Skomorokhov, it turns out, is a liberal! Affiget.
      Do not confuse the concepts of "Motherland" and "Your Excellency".
      And now we have to proceed from the strategy of "reasonable consumption" of public funds

      And let's try.
      Dmitry Rogozin, General Director of the State Corporation Roscosmos, earned 2019 million rubles in 44,1.
      Sechin's salary in 2020 is $ 50 million a year, which is 5 million rubles a day.
      Miller earned 2018 billion rubles in 1,9. The main part of his salary was given to him by Gazprom - 1,5 billion rubles. The rest - payments in the companies SOGAZ, SK SOGAZ Life, Gazprom Media Holding, NPF Gazfond, Gazprombank, where Miller works (or worked at that time) on the boards of directors.
      Gref's salary for 2018 amounted to just over 1 billion rubles
      Anatoly Serdyukov earned more than RUB 2018 million in 213.
      The average monthly salary of a State Duma deputy in 2020 was 467 thousand rubles.
      Is this a reasonable consumption of public funds?
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 29 August 2021 11: 15
        -10
        Quote: Sunflower
        Let's try

        Try it yourself first.
        Weak?
        1. sunzhenets
          sunzhenets 29 August 2021 11: 26
          +10
          "And you yourself try to start" - this is when there is nothing to argue. I am performing my official duties properly.
          1. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker 29 August 2021 11: 34
            -13
            Quote: Sunflower
            I perform my official duties properly

            You can be proud of it to the best of your pride. "I do not interfere .." as my company commander used to say at the school ...
            But do not try to be holier than the Pope.
      2. K298rtm
        K298rtm 29 August 2021 20: 37
        -1
        From the point of view of those who make decisions that are fateful for the country, it is very reasonable.
        1. Terran ghost
          Terran ghost 30 August 2021 11: 42
          +1
          From the point of view of those who make decisions that are fateful for the country, it is very reasonable.

          The salary of the President of the United States is $ 450 per year. That is about 000 million rubles at the exchange rate. This is about the level of salaries of persons at the highest levels of government departments and enterprises.
  26. shoroh
    shoroh 29 August 2021 10: 11
    0
    It is clear that if there is a choice where to spend funds - either on the construction of aircraft carriers, aircraft for it, and the entire infrastructure for its operation, or on conventional land su-57, su-75, then it is better to choose aircraft. At least we also really need them in large quantities.

    But to say that Russia is not capable of building an aircraft carrier is nonsense, and the facts are palatable. What does this have to do with examples from aviation, and even contrived ones, I don't understand.

    Russia is capable of building an aircraft carrier. It will just be expensive and time consuming.
  27. _Aleks_
    _Aleks_ 29 August 2021 10: 46
    +4
    And why do we need then missiles that are capable of destroying any target at any distance on a hyper sound?
    Imagine the situation, America approached the shores of Russia with two aircraft carriers, but at least with the entire fleet, and began to strike at our territory, what will we do in this case, do you think we will start collecting aircraft carriers with a pawn to repel the attack? That's right, according to our doctrine, we will deliver a nuclear strike against the aggressor. The question is why do we need so many aircraft carriers? Yes, I do not argue, they are CONVENIENT (aircraft carriers) for imposing democracy on countries such as Iraq, Libya, Yugoslavia, etc. And for example, did their aircraft carriers help the Americans to take the same Vietnam? And mind you, the USSR did not have aircraft carriers, and now in Afghanistan, how are things with the Americans do not remind? Maybe there are not enough aircraft carriers?
  28. ja-ja-vw
    ja-ja-vw 29 August 2021 10: 52
    +5
    Quote: Roman Skomorokhov
    And, by the way, at Yakovlev itself they openly say that MS-21 - this is nothing more than a deep modernization of the Yak-42,
    belay
    The author, of course, gave a "mach" here.
    A hint of a Yak-242 with a PS-90A12?

    Weights and loads, kg: maximum takeoff 64 600; equipped aircraft 38 400; payload: maximum 18, normal 000, with a maximum fuel capacity of 14.

    Flight data. Cruising speed 800- 850 km / h at an altitude of 11 100-11 600 m; practical flight range: with a maximum payload of 1600 km, with a normal payload of 2700 km, with a maximum refueling of 5000 km; required runway length (at a temperature of 30 ° C and a pressure of 730 mm Hg) 2200 m; maximum aerodynamic quality 18,0.

    Design features. Supercritical wing with vertical aerofoil ends.
    in the "metal" it was not, and the wing of the MS-21 is completely different.
  29. vowa48
    vowa48 29 August 2021 11: 21
    -1
    We, as a colonial power, to walk around the countries and restore order with an iron fist? Why are these barges at the present stage of the war? it's a super million dollar goal. So there are no developments and prospects in this area, wasting a resource in vain.
  30. Alexander Koshkin
    Alexander Koshkin 29 August 2021 11: 57
    +7
    With 2% of world GDP, the lion's share of which is energy and other raw materials, it makes no sense to compete on equal terms with an enemy who has 70% of it!
    The author showed in detail why! My respect and support for the ascetic of realism.
    Lovers of tin soldiers and toy models are fed by the bravura reports about super-planes, super-submarines, hurray-drones, etc., pouring from each iron in an endless stream. They have no idea that in order to catch up with the USSR in greatness and power, it is necessary to have a minimum of Soviet 22% of world GDP! While the share of Russia is constantly decreasing and by 25 it will be about 1,5% ...
  31. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 29 August 2021 12: 23
    -1
    Let's take the Kerch "Zaliv". Under the USSR, who was the logistics tied to the supply of steel for the formation of hulls? Probably to Mariupol? Ship low-speed and medium-speed "Vani" where they were made by licensing not in Bryansk, is it still alive? After 91 we were not allowed to do this do, take everything in the west. They gave credits very cleverly. Fortunately, there were owners from the "new Russians" who endured and did not hand over everything for scrap, and then at least the grass would not grow. Well, they finally realized that we could not survive without domestic shipbuilding. River workers are generally great, their projects are river - sea, they are even recognized as "friends" as the best. Even by the British themselves, contrary to the demands of politicians. In time we will recover, in spite of everything. And these are not slogans, look what is giving up now. And it is not necessary to say that everything is under the USSR. let the mechanics say that it is better Vyartsilya or the Soviet diesel. I never went to sea on Soviet diesels for 25 years. Furuno (Japan) fishing complexes were installed on every fisherman. Under the USSR, you can count on fingers to create successful projects of fishing vessels, which were attended by components from the CMEA and NATO countries.
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 29 August 2021 12: 29
      -2
      Quote: tralflot1832
      And no need to say that under the USSR everything was done its own. Let the mechanics say that it is better than Vyartsilya or Soviet diesel.

      Or "Russian Diesel" ...
      Bryansk Vanka Burmeister - these are the tears of the flies who serve them. He was flowing from wherever he could.
      crying
      1. tralflot1832
        tralflot1832 29 August 2021 12: 40
        0
        I went to sea with a test engineer Burmeister Vine from the Bryansk plant, once every 3-4 years the director sent them to pasture, to maintain their pants on business trips throughout the Soviet Union
        in the sea. The Polish "Vani" were also not very good, but not to the same extent as the Bryansk ones? hi
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 29 August 2021 12: 45
          -3
          Quote: tralflot1832
          Polish "Vani" were also not very, but not to the same extent as Bryansk

          Yes. This is true. As well as the fact that the ships built at the Polish People's Republic shipyards were nursed for a much longer period than their counterparts built in their native country. And the only question was - whose dvigun was on the ship.
          hi
          1. tralflot1832
            tralflot1832 29 August 2021 12: 50
            +2
            Or Spanish or Polish? It was like this in Murmansk.
    2. Bekasov Artem Andreevich
      Bekasov Artem Andreevich 30 August 2021 14: 56
      +1
      Quote: tralflot1832
      Let's take the Kerch "Zaliv". Under the USSR, who was the logistics tied to the supply of steel for the formation of hulls? Probably to Mariupol? Ship low-speed and medium-speed "Vani" where they were made on the license not in Bryansk, is it still alive?

      The Bryansk Machine-Building Plant is quite alive, but it stopped making diesel engines for ships, it works only with Russian Railways
  32. Rostislav Prokopenko
    Rostislav Prokopenko 29 August 2021 12: 48
    0
    Maybe not aircraft carriers, but Project 1144 to be restored? The AWACS plane is still needed, of course, but we will eat the elephant in parts - first the cruiser, then the rest.
    Maybe I'm wrong. But we are not pulling the aircraft carrier yet.
  33. orcinus
    orcinus 29 August 2021 13: 28
    +8
    Once, a few weeks ago, I wrote in the comments that in the superjet there are less than 10% of Russian-made components (quoting Talboyev), so the local sect "we will repeat / reach / wash the boots / shower with calibers" minus me below the plinth, although and in this article the same essence - engineering thought has died, there is nothing new and breakthrough. I'm waiting for more cons)
    1. I am not a robot
      I am not a robot 29 August 2021 16: 53
      -1
      well, you are cheating, so you got minus. like 40-50% of Russian components in the superjet
      engineering thought lives on, they still come up with something (su-75 for example)
      1. orcinus
        orcinus 29 August 2021 17: 04
        0
        Su-75 should be talked about when it takes off
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 29 August 2021 19: 49
          0
          Well, there is no doubt that the Su 75 will fly - since it is maximally unified with the Su 57, which greatly simplifies its production and testing.
          1. orcinus
            orcinus 29 August 2021 23: 36
            -2
            Well, if you think that you just need to remove 1 engine, then I wish you good luck)))
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 30 August 2021 15: 52
              +2
              I did not say that - I spoke about the unification of materials and units.
  34. Maks1995
    Maks1995 29 August 2021 13: 31
    +1
    And where is Sergei Marzhetsky and VO?
    He just did from the site with short reviews and Khokhlo-State Department-news, met. There never was such a thing.

    And what is the question? Do you need an airfield? are needed. Do you need planes? are needed.
    And then - for what? To frighten the State Department, to chase blacks in Africa, or simply not to lose the design school. It's a matter of strategy.
    And if the first is expensive and time-consuming, the rest is cheaper and more feasible. There was a desire, logistic calculations and money
  35. DemikSPb
    DemikSPb 29 August 2021 13: 35
    +2
    Do you have to buy the rope to hang yourself or will you give it out?
  36. The comment was deleted.
  37. FIFA from Cardiff
    FIFA from Cardiff 29 August 2021 13: 58
    0
    Бггг .... WELL, right heading ANALYSIS VOCALA, in which ANALYTICS clashed about God.
    SO, in order, what is an aircraft carrier? This is a revolutionary means for the first half of the 20th century to increase the range of the Navy's strike + to make this strike without entering the range of the then most powerful battleships and battle cruisers. What is an aircraft carrier? Correctly a carrier of combat aircraft and drones, and what is a combat carrier aircraft? Correctly limited in efficiency due to the use of a short deck, a controlled platform from which the crew uses onboard weapons for ground, sea and air targets. The Americans have 10 floating airfields from which combat aircraft with mediocre combat characteristics can be launched. What are the disadvantages of this weapon system.
    The need for a dense and multi-tiered defense of aircraft carriers from strikes from the ground, water, from under water and air, i.e. around this airfield it is necessary to keep more than 10 cruisers, destroyers, frigates and submarines, + a bunch of auxiliary ships and other things, that is, to deliver 10 nuclear ammunition - this horde needs to be driven across the ocean to the enemy coast, then losing pilots to break through the air defense and missile defense systems to strike. As for me, it is too difficult and energy-intensive, again you need to constantly have a double supply of trained specialists who are in this system weapons, alas, consumables. I think the submarine missile carrier will perform the same tasks with the help of nuclear weapons without even entering the NATO ASW zone. Again, combat experience shows that all these cover groups for aircraft carriers are weak protection for him, for example, HMS Eagle was sunk by 4 torpedoes by the U-75 submarine in 4 minutes, and amersky Archer Fish 4 torpedoes sent to the bottom 266 m "Shinano" with a displacement of 71 thousand tons, later after the war, our "Ruff" tore through the bottom of the aircraft carrier "Kitty Hawk". What does this say? That AUG in the 21st century is rather a huge fat and clumsy target.
    I think Putin is doing everything right, WHILE relying only on missile and aircraft weapons, submarines, small missile ships and coastal defense ships. In the current situation, Russia does not have the task of confronting the remote regions of the oceans, and to protect Russia's interests, modern Russian missile weapons are GUARANTEED to perform ANY tasks anywhere in the world.
    Well, and so information for thought, the Americans may have 10 aircraft carriers, but there are usually 3-4 combat-ready ones, a maximum of 5-6 pieces, the rest are either for repair or for modernization.
    Well, infa for thought - the pilots of A \ F-18 understand perfectly well that when they meet with our ground-based Su fighters, they are all suicide bombers, and losses of 20-30% of those who flew out will cause a riot among the flight personnel, that is, complete incapacity missiles, unlike pilots, will not riot, and the new Russian satellite tracking system for NATO ships means that the Americans understand that the front sight is already a red dot on their foreheads
    1. p0pulivox
      p0pulivox 29 August 2021 17: 13
      0
      Is this an advertisement or a comment?
  38. Max PV
    Max PV 29 August 2021 14: 13
    -1
    The problem is one and unsolvable - money. Although all the oligarchs and officials are dispossessed, there will not be enough for aircraft carriers. Everything is simple - in order for them to be of real benefit, and not several mass graves on the seabed in the very first days of the war, they must at least compete on an equal footing with the US Navy. This means that we need 10-12 AUG, namely AUG, and not aircraft carriers. That is, for 10-12 aircraft carriers, another 600-800 carrier-based fighters, 25-40 AWACS aircraft are needed, the same number of carrier-based transporters, 100-150 new carrier-based helicopters, 40-60 ocean-class URO destroyers, with a long 30-knot travel (weeks with refueling and supply at sea), 20 nuclear submarines, 20-30, and possibly more, supply vessels and tankers, for all this bases, infrastructure, including abroad, in key points of the world ocean. Estimate how much it will cost.
    Yes, dispossessing oligarchs and officials can get more, but, firstly, only once, and all this still needs to be maintained, and secondly, money is needed by the ground forces, aviation, Strategic Missile Forces, and many others, without which the value aircraft carrier fleet is equal to zero (except as personal yachts for those very officials and oligarchs), thirdly, pensioners also need to be fed, and they are far from skating in oil, frankly, they survive, despite the fact that retirement in Russia goes to 3 -4 times more money than defense. And others also need it, and teachers, and doctors, and science.
    Therefore, we are absolutely correct and we are not building aircraft carriers, so that that scanty budget is not wasted, with a minimum output. Yes, the same nuclear submarines, RTOs and aviation have a controversial value in the confrontation with the US fleet, but Kuznetsov or even 2, 3, even 4 aircraft carriers, even if we build them, will definitely have zero value. On whom will you bet, on our hypothetical aircraft carrier, or 2-5 US aircraft carriers, with fully developed equipment and tactics, with vast combat experience, with which our aircraft carrier will engage in battle in the very first hours, at most days of the war?
    1. Agent cooper
      Agent cooper 29 August 2021 17: 56
      -2
      I'm afraid if all the oligarchs are dispossessed, it will be enough for a dozen aircraft carriers. They buy yachts for themselves for a hundred million dollars.
    2. DenVB
      DenVB 29 August 2021 19: 07
      0
      Quote: Max PV
      The problem is one and unsolvable - money. Although all the oligarchs and officials are dispossessed, there will not be enough for aircraft carriers.

      Net capital outflow from Russia by the private sector in January - June 2021, according to preliminary estimates by the Central Bank, amounted to $ 28,2 billion, the Bank of Russia said in a statement.

      28 billion dollars in six months. Multiply by 2, we get 56 billion in a year. We set a tax on the export of capital, say, 30 percent (well, so that they don't scream too much that they are being robbed). We get $ 16,8 billion. Not pito, not eaten.

      A modern aircraft carrier costs even less. Gerald Ford is something in the region of 13 billion. It will also remain for the air group.

      This is just one year. Not even dispossession of kulaks, but a modest, by European standards, tax.
  39. certero
    certero 29 August 2021 14: 49
    +2
    There is a good saying "you need to stretch your legs for clothes"
    even the Union, despite all its power, could not build a fleet that would be superior to the American one. And this is absolutely understandable because the Union, like Russia, is a continental country.
    As for aircraft carriers, you need to build completely new ships with drones on board.
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 29 August 2021 15: 24
      -3
      Quote: certero
      As for aircraft carriers, you need to build completely new ships with drones on board.

      The idea is quite working, but it will still be aircraft carriers, only they will carry not manned, but remotely controlled aircraft.
  40. lazy
    lazy 29 August 2021 16: 10
    0
    there is no Nikolaev, but there is a new shipyard in a big stone, the question is whether we need aircraft carriers if we are not going to fight on foreign shores?
  41. ximkim
    ximkim 29 August 2021 16: 18
    0
    Quote: lucul
    Maybe in the next life we ​​will build AUG? In this life, evens do not work.

    Putin was led somehow to the model of the aircraft carrier. He asked - can anyone clearly explain why Russia needs an aircraft carrier - none of the admirals surrounding Putin at that moment could answer anything.

    Such admirals)
  42. Kettle13
    Kettle13 29 August 2021 17: 35
    -2
    "What can we do in modern Russia?" - then the author would have specified in what area. After all, we can in modern Russia a lot of things, if we do not get hung up on weapons.
  43. DenVB
    DenVB 29 August 2021 17: 53
    -1
    Probably not worth comparing the capabilities of the same Boeing

    By the way, Boeing has nothing to do with the F-35.
  44. Agent cooper
    Agent cooper 29 August 2021 17: 54
    -2
    What are the aircraft carriers for the cowardly Kremlin regime if they cannot simply defend their national interests under their noses as it was with Ukraine in 2014. All they had the courage to do was to recapture Crimea, where the people themselves had already risen to stand up as a shield to Perekop. The rest of Ukraine is now in the Western sphere of influence.
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 29 August 2021 18: 29
      -2
      Quote: Agent Cooper
      how it was with Ukraine in 2014

      Have you ever wondered why it was arranged in 2014?
  45. 1536
    1536 29 August 2021 17: 54
    -1
    I remember that once the following slogan was put forward: "A mood for deeds, and not for loud words, is required today." Is this slogan relevant now? Relevant. The Americans were afraid to sell even Opel to us at the time. That means we need to do what we need ourselves, and not give up and not make jokes about outdated aircraft or something else.
    1. Sam-07
      Sam-07 29 August 2021 22: 31
      0
      Opel was not sold ... Mistrals .... Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Armenia, Azerbaijan ....
      C-sarcasm.
      the best minister of InDel ...
      the best minister ....?
      best finance minister ....
      best....????
      who will dispute?
  46. DenVB
    DenVB 29 August 2021 18: 12
    0
    By the way, we need some of the listed things in any case, even without aircraft carriers. For example, a compact AWACS aircraft, like the Hokai, and an electronic warfare aircraft, similar to the Growler.
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 29 August 2021 18: 30
      0
      Quote: DenVB
      By the way, we need some of the listed things in any case, even without aircraft carriers.

      And to some it is useless to explain it.
  47. ximkim
    ximkim 29 August 2021 18: 47
    0
    Quote: lis-ik
    Quote: ximkim
    Maybe in the next life we ​​will build AUG? In this life, evens do not work.

    Well, how will it turn out when the authorities have different goals? Corvettes and frigates have been built for decades, moreover, it turns out that corvettes, for the sake of friends, with practically no working air defense, the backlog of the union is over, it is impossible to modernize indefinitely, and there is nothing of our own, except for promises and layouts, moreover, the remnants of the working military-industrial complex are systematically bankrupt and destroyed.

    An article on the life of the military-industrial complex.
  48. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 29 August 2021 18: 49
    +2
    which the Northern Fleet safely drowned

    Drowned not SF. Drowned "Effective Owner" - Rosneft, which saved on emergency generators. Due to snowfall, power from the shore was cut off and that was it, the dock was doomed. Thanks to Russian capitalism.
  49. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 29 August 2021 19: 09
    0
    Nichrome will not be built "all of a sudden," - our economy is sour, those who are still on top of their heads - understand that we have no parity in anything with the United States except nuclear weapons - well, maybe we can still talk about tanks and artillery systems. some advantage. And we don’t have the means to jump-start this advantage in more than a couple of directions (a couple of secondary ones, because we cannot be even close to parity with them either in aviation or in the navy). Point. No money. And the USSR did not have the means - they pulled their ears to the heels with their pincers - and even then, in the golden years of oil.
    It all comes down to money - discussing potential opportunities is about how to breed fantasies about how well we would live if we had communism for 20 years, for example. This is not serious. At one time, Mao, also assessing potential opportunities, brought shizu to the population and everyone began to melt cast iron in artisanal stoves from the devil, understand why, and with a near-zero skill level. It turned out frankly NOT a CAKE. This is what POTENTIAL opportunities are - potentially, of course, it is possible to realize many wet fantasies of militarists, but in reality everything will be, at best, like that story with cast iron.
  50. Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 29 August 2021 21: 23
    -2
    objective and article by the respected Roman Skomorokhov about the truth of the uterus