Meigs and Evans' super rifles: the most recharging in history

127
Meigs and Evans' super rifles: the most recharging in history
Apache Indians on the warpath ... Here they are shown armed mainly with Winchester carbines. But they had another, even more perfect weapon… Rice. J. Rava
"... and His arrow will fly out like lightning"
Zechariah 9:14

History firearms. Probably, this is great: to live in an era when there is still nothing around you, there are no things we are used to, but there is a need for them to appear. And even with a very low level of education, people just didn’t come up with anything, from buttons to pedal submarines and airplanes. Moreover, among the successful inventors were artists and photographers, officers, sellers of men's collars, and even ... dentists! And many of them, by some strange irony of fate, were engaged in the invention of firearms. Among such “killer doctors” was the American dentist from Thomaston, Maine, Warren R. Evans, who, with the help of his brother George, managed to create ... the most repeating rifle in the world! However, still not the most, but reliable and widespread enough, because they managed to release it in the amount of about 15 copies.


Vincent Meigs rifle appearance

Well, the most multi-charge "multi-charge" was invented by another American - Josiah Vincent Meigs, and if we consider his work and the work of Evans, it was he who was the first, but Evans was only the second. And today we will tell you about their rifles ...




Meigs rifle with shifted sliding bar. Right view. The hole for ejection of spent cartridges is clearly visible. The forend as such is absent. It was replaced by an unusual braid made of linen cord


Meigs rifle. Left view

The career of Josiah Vincent Meigs (1840-1907) was as follows: he received an engineering education, joined the Union army, rose to the rank of captain and created in it the first battalion of Negro light artillery. When the war ended, Meigs moved to Lowell, Massachusetts in 1866 and became manager of the US Cartridge Co. In 1881 he developed the construction of a monorail railway, and in 1884 he built an experimental flyover railway track with a length of a third of a mile. He left behind a lot of interesting documents that are kept in the Yale University library, as well as ... three completely unique carbines of a very interesting design for an incredibly rare rifle cartridge of .50 Meigs caliber with a magazine for 50 rounds.


Sliding bar

One of them was kept by the descendants of the inventor and today it is included in a large collection in the United States. The second can be seen at the Cody Museum in the United States. Well, one was sold at Morphy's arms auction.


The rotating part of the magazine and its folded back cover

A patent for this rifle was issued to Captain Meigs on May 22, 1866. Moreover, its design really was not like anything. A spiral magazine for 50 rounds of his own design was in her stock. Rechargeable through a hole in the butt plate. The feeding mechanics of this gun is as follows: under the magazine cylinder there is a curved sliding bar on which a trigger with a bracket is mounted, inside which there is also a reloading lever. That is, in order to make a shot from a rifle equipped with cartridges, you should press the lever inside the bracket, move the bar back and forth and ... pull the trigger. A shot will follow, after which, when the bar moves back, a spent cartridge case will fall out of the hole under the barrel. That's all!


Retractable shutter

The details of the carbine are carefully nickel-plated, and the magazine cylinder is plated with an alloy "German silver". The only piece of wood is the American walnut stock comb.


Drawing from Meigs' patent showing how its bolt is actuated by a sliding bar

The barrel is 25-1 / 4 inches long, with an unusual front sight at the end, rotating. The rear sight is also an unusual positional one with a retractable aperture.


Rotating front sight at the end of the barrel

The inventor claimed that all 50 rounds of his rifle could be fired in 19 seconds, and was apparently ready to confirm his claims during testing. He calculated that a running infantryman could travel 109 yards in one minute, and that a skilled marksman familiar with the rifle would be able to fire an accurate shot every two steps he took, thus firing fifty rounds on the target before the running enemy could reach position of the arrow. He claimed that a regiment of 1000 men, armed with his rifles, could fire 50 rounds in one minute and stop any attack from any enemy. Unfortunately, his rifle was not accepted into service and remained practically unknown. And this despite the fact that its prototype was tested in the army for four whole years, and during this time 000 shots were fired from it without failures.


Evans carbine, "transitional model"

As for the Warren R. Evans rifle, he offered it a little later than Meigs, while in 1873 he and his brother George jointly founded the Evans Rifle Manufacturing Company in Mechanic Falls, Maine, to manufacture these rifles. They were also sold by Merwin & Hulbert and Evans' Canadian partner Ralph H. Kilby, a sports goods trader in Montreal. It was hoped that it would be adopted by the United States Army, but the rifle did not pass the standard dust test.


W.R. Evans patent 1868

Before making the rifle, Evans created an Evans .44 caliber cartridge loaded with black powder. As a basis, he took a Spencer carbine, which also had a magazine in the butt and a shutter control lever combined with a trigger bracket, but ... He worked very hard on this initial design. So, he enlarged the magazine tube in diameter and placed the famous "Archimedes screw" in it. Now, working with the lever-bracket up and down, it was possible to turn this screw and feed the next cartridge to the line of its chambering into the chamber. With the repeated movement of the lever, the spent cartridge case was removed from the barrel and thrown out through the hole in the receiver on the right.


Evans store arrangement

On the first sample - the so-called "first model" (or it was also called the "old model"), there was no wooden plate on the tube of the magazine below, which made the Evans rifle look like a Meigs rifle, but then such plates were placed on the magazine both from above and from below. On the first samples, there was also a lever stopper at the bottom, which played the role of a safety device, but then it was abandoned. The first rifle model was produced from 1873 to 1876.


Evans rifle advertisement published in Spirit of the Times, 1876

The rifle was produced in a sports version (with octagonal barrels of different lengths), a carbine (with a round barrel) and an army musket (to interest the army), also with a round barrel.


"Transitional model"

At the beginning of 1876, a "transitional model" appeared, still without a lid, but already with a stock completely sewn into the tree, and also in three versions. The shops of all three rifles at this time were loaded with 38 rounds!


"New model"

Despite the high price, rifles began to be bought. And positive reviews began to come to the firm, and they even belonged to such famous people as William Cody - Buffalo Bill, and his friends. True, many of them called for an increase in the power of the cartridge for this rifle.


Cartridge for "new model": .44 Evans - Long

It was developed by George Evans, and when it was ready, an improved rifle was made for it. By the summer of 1877, it was finalized and put into production. The length of the new cartridge case increased to 38 mm, the lead bullet began to weigh 17-18,5 g, the charge consisted of 2,5-2,7 g of black powder. The bullet speed was now 350-380 m / s. Caliber .44 remains the same.


"New model". The cover of the ejection hole is clearly visible


Mechanism operation


Loading hole

The "new model" has become stronger and has a cover for the ejection hole. It was also produced in the above three variants. But due to the longer length of the cartridge, it was now possible to load only 26 cartridges into it (according to other sources - 28), however, this was an excellent indicator.


Store details

True, due to the peculiarities of the rotary mechanism of the store, it was impossible to recharge it as the ammunition was consumed. It was necessary to first shoot it all, and only then, one at a time, through the hole in the butt plate, fill it all with cartridges, which was not very convenient. And, of course, this rifle could not be used as a baton to beat her on the head with the butt. The Evans company went bankrupt in 1879, unable to withstand the competition. But, nevertheless, she managed to release about 15 of her repeating rifles!


Apache Indian with Evans repeating shotgun, circa 1880

PS Photos by Alain Daubresse (website www.littlegun.be).
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127 comments
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  1. +12
    21 August 2021 04: 41
    Another great article for morning coffee.
    I wonder how, with such a volume of production, Evans's guns fell into the hands of the Indians? Trophies? I think that after all, the number of firearms among the Indians, which we see in paintings and films, does not correspond to reality.
    1. +11
      21 August 2021 04: 58
      Quote: tasha
      Another great article for morning coffee.
      I wonder how, with such a volume of production, Evans's guns fell into the hands of the Indians? Trophies? I think that after all, the number of firearms among the Indians, which we see in paintings and films, does not correspond to reality.

      In fact, the supply of weapons to the Indians existed in those days, even at the government level. There is quite a lot of serious literature about this in English. But there are also some translations. For example:
      1. +10
        21 August 2021 05: 20
        We have a holiday on VO today, at least three wonderful articles from three respected Authors! Would always be like this !!!
        1. +3
          21 August 2021 06: 54
          I subscribe to your words. Saturday was a success. At least morning)
          Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
      2. +6
        21 August 2021 05: 33
        Thank you very much, I read it with interest.
        As I understand it, the supply of weapons to the Indians was carried out until 1840. Then, I think, the situation changed.
        1. +7
          21 August 2021 08: 05
          Quote: tasha
          Thank you very much, I read it with interest.
          As I understand it, the supply of weapons to the Indians was carried out until 1840. Then, I think, the situation changed.

          After the start of the "Gold Rush", the situation with weapons there generally changed. Demand gave birth to supply and vice versa with all that it implies.
        2. +6
          21 August 2021 12: 02
          In fact, the Indians had a lot of firearms. And "a lot of charging" went with the seeds of the 60s, 19 c
    2. +7
      21 August 2021 12: 08
      "How did Evans' rifles get to the Indians with such a production volume? Trophies?" ///
      ---
      Indian tribes in those days were not considered as constant enemies.
      Treaties were concluded with them, their leaders regularly visited Washington.
      And there was trade with them. They were easily sold firearms.
      Which went to tribal wars. That flashed constantly.
      And they were very cruel. But also "Indian Wars" (Indians with whites)
      were not uncommon. And Indian warriors trained in internecine strife
      they shot well at the whites.
      1. +2
        21 August 2021 12: 53
        Alexey, what period are you writing about now?
        The subject of the article has been published since 1873, when relations with the Apaches were not the best, hmm ... the best. Geronimo - is it like from those times?
        1. +1
          25 August 2021 16: 58
          just during this period in the north of the Great Plains on the border with Canada, the second Wild West blossomed, by the way I can recommend a suitable canal on Zen "Frontier and Wild West", very emotional stories about those times
          1. 0
            26 August 2021 06: 33
            Thank you, I’ll take note. hi
  2. +14
    21 August 2021 04: 49
    When I was just a boy, I gladly ran to films with the participation of the main Indian of the USSR - the Yugoslav actor Goiko Mitic. These films, of course, could not pretend to be historical, but I remember that this movie hero shot very accurately from some long-barreled and very multiply-charged rifles. Well, in the movies all weapons are terribly "multiply charged", but in some of the films, in the course of the action, he loaded his beautifully inlaid gun with an incredible amount of cartridges, taking them out of a long cartridge belt.

    1. +8
      21 August 2021 05: 48
      Hello Alexander. hi
      Well, in this photo he's just a single-shot flintlock gun. smile

      By the way, I saw this film, I don't remember the name, and we all wondered how it was - there is an Indian, but there is no Winchester, instead of him there is some kind of ancient inlaid bandura. request
      1. +7
        21 August 2021 06: 02
        And the name is simple ...

        After these films, all the boys of the Soviet Union began to play Indians ...
        1. +12
          21 August 2021 06: 20
          Hmmm, "big snake" sounds much nicer than just Gross hose, Germans .... laughing
          Cowboys started playing early - with the Magnificent Seven.
          1. +8
            21 August 2021 08: 22
            Quote: Sea Cat
            Cowboys started playing early - with the Magnificent Seven.

            In the late 60s I even watched "The Return of the Seven". The film turned out to be weak, only Yul remained of the actors. But Elmer Bernstein's music, as in the first film, was awesome.
            1. +5
              21 August 2021 15: 19
              I saw "The Return" - compared to the first film, just a pale weakness.
              And the "Seven" itself should be watched only in our dubbing, with our humor better than that of the Americans, compared. smile
              1. +4
                21 August 2021 16: 16
                Quote: Sea Cat
                you need to watch only in our dubbing, with humor in our better

                I quote from memory:
                “I don’t understand why you took on such a job?”
                - I'm surprised myself.
                - Don't shirk, tell me!
                - There was a guy in El Paso, he took off his clothes and jumped into a thicket of cactus. I asked him why?
                - And?
                - It seemed to him then that it was a good idea.
                1. +4
                  21 August 2021 16: 55
                  "- Britt, Filein said what you said, and I say that you are lying, and what do you say?" (C)

                  And Culvera's philosophizing is just brilliance! laughing
              2. +2
                21 August 2021 17: 06
                My brother and I played The Magnificent Seven to ourselves and our friends five times. This is not counting regular sessions.
                1. +4
                  21 August 2021 17: 16
                  And this is not surprising, in Soviet times and such a picture, it turned out that there is not only one Ku-Klux-Klan hanging blacks. And that's not counting the shooting and everything else.
                  Following "Seven" the musical "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers" was released. Watched?
                  1. +4
                    21 August 2021 17: 29
                    No, I didn't. The fact is that by the time I myself could play the role of the projectionist, all these films from the box office had long been removed. But the copies remained in the film libraries, and with the appropriate connections, the copy could be taken "for temporary use" and run in a village club, having completed and overfulfilled the financial plan. The Magnificent Seven was a win-win. But spinning the ancient, constantly torn "film" was sheer torment.
          2. +5
            21 August 2021 15: 54
            As far as I remember, we water the gardens just from kites.
            1. +3
              21 August 2021 16: 01
              About that and speech. smile
      2. +3
        21 August 2021 06: 58
        So in films, they shoot so fast that any Evans will envy! Moreover, the cartridges do not run out!
        By the way, this "disease" also applies to some of the current films - sometimes you watch the main character shoot back from the "revolver", automatically count, and there are 10 and 12 babakhs!)))
        1. +5
          21 August 2021 14: 38
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          the hero from the "revolver" fires back, you automatically count, and there are 10 and 12 broads!)))

          Yes bullshit (!) ... 12 bangs from a revolver! I remember a French film from the "Three Musketeers" series ... so there they fired from flintlock pistols, yak from "Parabellums" ... continuously ... without reloading after each shot! fellow And you ... "revolver"! negative
      3. +5
        21 August 2021 08: 07
        Quote: Sea Cat
        instead of it, some kind of ancient inlaid bandura.

        Thanks. I am in these matters and to this day swim. recourse
      4. +4
        21 August 2021 13: 12
        There were no Winchesters at the time of Chingachguk, it was about 50-60 years of the 12th century, maybe + XNUMX years. It should be looked at by F.Cooper's books. This is the time of muzzle-loaders, m. flintlock rifled guns of the type English Brown Bass.
        1. +6
          21 August 2021 15: 16
          That's right, but who at the time these films came out went into such details? Cowboys and Indians, and now Winchester and Colt rule everywhere and at all times. laughing
    2. +11
      21 August 2021 11: 40
      Comrades: "Privalov", Kostya Greetings. Mitic was something. All the boys were crazy about him.
      For some reason, our girls disliked him. They were crazy about someone else. I don't remember what the girls liked then. Recently, a classmate and I remembered childhood, childhood films and could not remember what or who fascinated our classmates then. "Angelica"-? Or another film has already been forgotten, but Mitich is remembered
      1. +11
        21 August 2021 12: 06
        Quote: vladcub
        Comrades: "Privalov", Kostya Greetings. Mitic was something. All the boys were crazy about him.
        For some reason, our girls disliked him. They were crazy about someone else. I don't remember what the girls liked then. Recently, a classmate and I remembered childhood, childhood films and could not remember what or who fascinated our classmates then. "Angelica"-? Or another film has already been forgotten, but Mitich is remembered

        The girls always liked "nyashechki" and although then even the word was not like that they liked Alain Delon.

        Goiko Mitic, with his huge browbones and a chopped chin, was too brutal for them, although this word was also used very rarely then.
        1. +10
          21 August 2021 12: 21
          Agree. In our time, it seems we are of the same age, we did not use the words: "brutal", and even more so: "cute". Such a word did not know
          1. +14
            21 August 2021 12: 31
            Quote: vladcub
            Agree. In our time, it seems we are of the same age, we did not use the words: "brutal", and even more so: "cute". Such a word did not know

            Apparently so. I'm 67.
            I am from the generation that still remembers why they crumpled the newspaper.
            Then, there was not much yet. Even the word "sushi" was a verb ...
            - Do you remember how we ran after the girls?
            - I remember how we ran. But why, I don’t remember something ...
            1. +8
              21 August 2021 12: 34
              Quote: A. Privalov
              Apparently so. I'm 67.
              I am from the generation that still remembers why they crumpled the newspaper.

              The peasant is as old as he feels.
              There would be someone to crush ...
              wassat
              1. +7
                21 August 2021 12: 37
                Quote: stalkerwalker
                The peasant is as old as he feels.
                There would be someone to crush ...

                "You shouldn't hesitate, girls,
                It's a sin to take care of me
                Grandpa also has
                How to entertain someone. "(C) hi
            2. +4
              21 August 2021 17: 45
              "they still remember why they crumpled the newspaper" well, this is well known to me. I used it myself.
              I'm under 61
              1. +4
                21 August 2021 20: 01
                Quote: vladcub
                I'm under 61

                It doesn't make a difference.
                In those years, time moved slowly. Communication hours between generations became frequent much later. Somewhere near the end of the 60s.
                1. 0
                  21 August 2021 22: 55
                  In those years, time moved slowly. Communication hours between generations became frequent much later.


                  This is not a clock of "connection of generations" ... It is your own inner part towards old age. Logarithmic scale.
                  And the young ladies in those days liked "Ichthyander", an amphibian man. And I also remember how we distorted the word "tumagatka" after films like "Adventures on the Shores of Ontario"
                2. -1
                  22 August 2021 10: 09
                  Like that. Only I would say that the acceleration began, somewhere in the mid-70s
                  1. +2
                    22 August 2021 12: 01
                    Quote: vladcub
                    Like that. Only I would say that the acceleration began, somewhere in the mid-70s

                    When I was 7-8, (61-62) there were still "dudes", like in the 50s who danced Rock and Roll and boogie-woogie, and after 2-3 years there was already a completely different fashion, other idols and other dances. This was the same gap and acceleration. In the 70s, hipari with their troubles will already begin ...
            3. +1
              22 August 2021 17: 11
              Quote: A. Privalov
              I remember how we ran. But why, I don’t remember something ...

              !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  3. +17
    21 August 2021 05: 02
    The Evans company went bankrupt in 1879, unable to withstand the competition.
    Evans' weapons became interested in the Navy. These rifles began to be acquired as a personal weapon of the crew. By the way, according to one version, it was in this way that Evans' rifles first fell into the hands of Russian sailors. One of the ships acquired by the Russian Empire was equipped with this weapon. They liked the new rifles so much that there was even an order, not only for the Russian fleet, but also for the army, which was not destined to be fulfilled. The weapons received real success during the Russian-Turkish war, this is the second way along which rifles and carbines got into the hands of our compatriots, however, in the form of captured weapons. As mentioned above, Evans' magazine rifles and carbines became very interested in the Russian Empire, and the money raised from the sale of weapons to the US Navy and supplies during the Russian-Turkish war allowed the designer to expand production to meet the needs of a fairly large army. In 1879, the designer demonstrated a rifle and a carbine chambered for .44 Russian, which completely satisfied the potential customer. Immediately, after getting acquainted with the weapon, a list of requirements was drawn up that made purely cosmetic changes to rifles and carbines. Even negotiations began to conclude a contract for the production and supply of these weapons to the Russian army, but ... the arms company Evans Rifle Manufacturing Company was closed. Or rather, the arms company was closed. All in the same 1879, Oliver Winchester bought out both patents and production from Evans, after which the production was closed, and the patents were not used anywhere else. Until the weapon was only gaining popularity, and the production capacity of the company was small, the large representatives of the arms market did not pay attention to the small arms company and new weapons. However, as soon as the threat appeared, Winchester did the same: he bought and just threw away a more promising project than the projects of his own company. It is difficult to imagine the amount that Evans could agree with, provided that there were arms shipments to one of the largest countries. ... He had the opportunity not only to earn quite a lot of money, but also to leave his name in history along with famous gunsmiths. Perhaps the offer was one of those that cannot be refused, which was quite in the spirit of Oliver Winchester, but now one can only guess, since, of course, there is no intelligible information.
    1. +4
      21 August 2021 05: 54
      Quote: SERGE ant
      Even negotiations began to conclude a contract for the production and supply of these weapons to the Russian army, but ... the arms company Evans Rifle Manufacturing Company was closed

      Complete nonsense, the Russian army could not switch to this rifle, and there were three reasons, and even one would be enough to refuse it. The first reason is a very high price due to its complex design, the second reason is due to its complex design, the rifle is very capricious, and besides, it cannot be used in hand-to-hand combat due to the presence of a fragile magazine in the butt, and the third reason is a revolving cartridge that was not suitable for shooting more than 200 m. Alternatively, this rifle could be adopted by the border service and the gendarmerie, for example, at the beginning of the 20th century, Nagant revolvers of 1895 were produced for them in the form of carbines with an elongated barrel and an integral butt.
      1. +5
        21 August 2021 07: 34
        By the way, these carbines were awesome - parabellum for example
      2. +12
        21 August 2021 08: 40
        Alternatively, this rifle could be adopted by the border service and the gendarmerie.
        The fleet could also. In Russia there was a sample
        for service with the fleet in the form of a carbine with a bayonet mount on the barrel. Just two of these carbines are kept in the VIMAIViVS funds.
        There are no special differences in design between them. One of them bears a brass plaque with the inscription “Russian magazine-type carbine of the Evans system, model 1871 was in service with the Navy”. It should be noted here that all models of Evans' rifles and carbines were marked with patents in 1868 and 1871. There was no indication of the year of production or putting into service. Apparently, one of these dates was taken for the year the sample was created, although both carbines are new model carbines and were released between 1877 and 1878.
      3. +6
        21 August 2021 11: 49
        Kuzya, I read Fedorov, somewhere Zhuk is lying, but there is no information about revolver rifles in Russia. In Mexico were, and in the Republic of Ingushetia for service? Someone may have bought privately
        1. 0
          21 August 2021 11: 55
          Quote: vladcub
          Uzya, I read Fedorov, somewhere Zhuk lies, but there is no about revolver rifles in Russia. In Mexico were, and in the Republic of Ingushetia for service? Someone may have bought privately

          Tsarist Russia was so poor and African that it could not provide its troops even with cartridges, which was not the case for any of the belligerent countries. As a result, tsarist Russia rushed around the world in search of rifles and cartridges, and paid for all this in gold. For comparison, the Stalinist USSR in 1941 and 1942 supplied itself with cartridges, rifles, and there was no such thing as a Russian soldier going into the attack with a rifle for two, as it is in the fictions of the liberals.
          1. +4
            21 August 2021 13: 32
            "in 1941-1942 he supplied himself with rifles, cartridges" so and not so.
            Kremlev writes that the entire mobilization stock of rifles ended up in the ZOVO.
            There are photographs where the Red Army men have Shosh machine guns, and it is OUTDOED STILL in the 20s.
            I read it from Voronov: Beria planned 100 rifles for the NKVD troops, and he reports to Stalin that there is no stock of rifles, the industry CANNOT satisfy the front.
            In the film: "Izhora battalion" there is an episode when one hero told another: they gave you a rifle, and he answered: yes, a Canadian training one.
            Cannons were used near Moscow as early as 1878. This is in the film: "The Seekers".
            Zhukov, in a conversation with Simonov, said "we didn't even have gunpowder"
            1. -4
              21 August 2021 20: 05
              Quote: vladcub
              In the film: "Izhora battalion" there is an episode when one hero told another: they gave you a rifle, and he answered: yes, a Canadian training one.

              Do you teach history from feature films? !!! Maybe then you think that in "Burnt by the Sun" everything is true?
              Quote: vladcub
              Cannons were used near Moscow as early as 1878. This is in the film: "The Seekers".
              Zhukov, in a conversation with Simonov, said "we didn't even have gunpowder"

              Uncle Zhora is still a storyteller. Not only is he a robber and marauder who took out German junk in wagons, he is the same weather vane and balabol as Khrushchev, it is not for nothing that they sang well and together filled Beria.
              1. +2
                22 August 2021 10: 01
                I don't care about the "tired sun", but I remembered the "battalion" for two reasons: 1) the best films about the Second World War were shot: participants or those who saw the war .. "Only old men go to battle", "Liberation", "Hot Snow".
                2) I have both a mother and an aunt who participated in the Second World War. Communicated with many war veterans. And one of them said that he had an American carbine chambered for our cartridge. He liked him better: more convenient.
                V. O told about him. Here they counted the types of weapons that the allies supplied
                1. -2
                  22 August 2021 10: 15
                  Quote: vladcub
                  Communicated with many war veterans. And one of them said that he had an American carbine chambered for our cartridge. He liked him better: more convenient.

                  I bet he was a logistician when he was given the American rifle. At the front, ALL fighters, even in October 1941, when there was the most tension with weapons, were given regular Mosinki.
                  1. +1
                    22 August 2021 23: 44
                    Most likely, it was a "mosinka" made in the United States during World War I by order of the tsarist government. I held this in my hands when I was a kid in 1 in Irkutsk in a shooting club. In addition to marking, it was distinguished by a stepped sight.
                  2. 0
                    22 August 2021 23: 47
                    Near Moscow in October 1941, the remaining from the 1st World War "Arisaki", 3-inch cars of 1901 (fortunately, there were a lot of shells for them) and "Lewis" were used - see the chronicle of the parade on November 7, 1941.
                    1. +1
                      23 August 2021 01: 13
                      In the DNO (people's militia divisions), for the period of their formation, the fighters were armed with all kinds of weapons from the warehouses: Arisaks, Mauser, Lee-Enfields, Mannlicher, Lebel and other remnants of the First World War. But they were sent to the front already re-equipped with standard Mosin rifles, since the Izhevsk Arms Plant No. 74 was not evacuated, and the production of rifles only grew, by November 1941 the production of rifles reached 12 thousand pieces per day, that is, rifles could be armed every day the newly created rifle division, and still would have remained. As for the Lewis, yes, they fought with them at the front near Moscow, there were not enough machine guns, so they were forced to use the Lewis, and in 1942 they even began to produce AVTs as ersatz machine guns. There was a shortage of machine guns and artillery in the DNO, but the Red Army was fully provided with rifles throughout the entire war.
              2. 0
                22 August 2021 10: 04
                And then Nikita adjusted it with a pendel
                1. 0
                  22 August 2021 10: 17
                  Quote: vladcub
                  And then Nikita adjusted it with a pendel

                  Nikita was that bastard. No wonder he was overthrown in 1964, not a single secretary general, with the exception of Mishka the rag, was not overthrown. Vaughn Brezhnev, who was comfortable for everyone, and did not pay with black ingratitude for loyalty, was kept on the throne to the last, even when he was trying to retire.
          2. +2
            21 August 2021 13: 39
            Kuzya the cat, how do you feel about the historian Isaev? His many comrades praise him. I personally have not read, but I respect the Kremlin
            1. +3
              21 August 2021 20: 07
              Isaev is a very good historian, you should definitely read at least his book "10 Myths of the Second World War" and "Zhukov. The Last Argument of the Kings."
  4. +4
    21 August 2021 05: 05
    In the end, an extremely simple, reliable and cheap mid-range magazine and magazine loading defeated all these masterpieces of weapons technology.
    1. +5
      21 August 2021 05: 56
      Plus, the mass cartridge has become different ..
      1. +5
        21 August 2021 10: 53
        Quote: tasha
        Plus, the mass cartridge has become different ..

        The cartridge is completely different: smokeless gunpowder, a shell bullet weighing 13,6 g and a speed of 610 m / s, which is about 1,8 times faster and about 3 times more energetically than that of the .44 Rush. Now a pistol bullet weighing 15 g and a speed of 340 m / s is not used anywhere in the army.
  5. +10
    21 August 2021 05: 10
    "Everything has already been invented before us!" Calico, Bison - pitiful likeness !!!
  6. +15
    21 August 2021 05: 36
    Good morning everyone hi , Special thanks to Vyacheslav for an interesting article. smile

    ... there was another, even more advanced weapon ...


    I cannot agree with the author about the "perfection" of these rifles, both devices are too complicated, fragile and fail due to dust, there are other serious shortcomings, which Vyacheslav himself writes about in his article. The rejection of them by the army speaks for itself.
    Perhaps that is why the Indians in photographs and paintings are most often represented with the much more reliable Henry and Winchester.
    But as milestones in the history of the creation of multiple-charge weapons, both rifles are of undoubted interest.
    1. +13
      21 August 2021 08: 51
      Yes, normal guns! No faith in my words? Okay, then let's go and ask the famous shooter of the time, Keith Carson. Here's what about the accuracy of the Evans rifles: in the presence of the public, I could knock the pipe out of her mouth with a shot, hit the apple in her hand, a penny in her fingers, knock carbon deposits off the candle she was holding. I think Evans' system is the safest and most advanced system ever developed. ”It's a shame that Warren Evans, now a dentist in Portland, Maine, lost interest in the business. He later received several patents. on inventions, but only in the field of dentistry, and on June 8, 1912, in the same place in Portland, he died of heart disease. His brother, George Evans, after the collapse of the company moved to Massachusetts, where until his death in 1901 he invented and patented various mechanical devices.
      This is how the history of this non-trivial rifle and its creators developed.
      1. +9
        21 August 2021 11: 01
        Perhaps for "circus" performances, this rifle was excellent!
        But it was not tested for performance after long marches.
        How would she show herself then?
        1. +13
          21 August 2021 12: 16
          Checked. The Indians used it successfully. And they had long marches.
          And there were no repair technicians and workshops.
      2. +9
        21 August 2021 15: 12
        Hi Serge. hi
        And do you believe, do not believe here? And, actually, I wrote a commentary on the article itself, and not on the information that you posted. smile
        The opinion of some contemporary shooter of these rifles certainly deserves attention, but this is just the opinion of one person.
        I did not mean the accuracy and safety of these rifles, but their reliability in the field, and this was the question of the American army themselves. The opinion of the fleet is not an indicator here, and any person who understands weapons needs only to look at the sophisticated magazines of these rifles to understand how capricious they can be in a real battle.
        I, in my life, have had enough experience with weapons in order to prefer the simple and reliable Henry-Winchester system to these rifles.
        1. +4
          21 August 2021 17: 32
          Kostya, how do you assess Spencer's system? There's also a store in the butt
          1. +8
            21 August 2021 18: 30
            There was a simple store and there was no more breakage in it than Winchester's.
  7. +5
    21 August 2021 07: 20
    Olegovich is good, good. And authoritative people voted for the rifle - Bill, then this Indian is the last one immediately visible - a warrior
  8. +5
    21 August 2021 07: 24
    And about rifles, it looks like a highly specialized special forces weapon, to which they have not grown
  9. +4
    21 August 2021 12: 07
    I think that Meigs did not go into the series because of the high cost.
    By the way, V. Oh, you didn't say how many Meigs were produced?
    1. 0
      22 August 2021 17: 17
      Quote: vladcub
      By the way, V. Oh, you didn't say how many Meigs were produced?

      Known 3
      1. 0
        22 August 2021 17: 39
        Not much. Perhaps there were more of them.
        Stop. Q. Oh, when did you start putting serial numbers on weapons? If Meigs has serial numbers, how many copies were produced?
        1. 0
          22 August 2021 17: 40
          I cannot answer your question. Do not know.
          1. 0
            22 August 2021 18: 02
            You do not know when the serial numbers appeared on the weapon
            1. 0
              22 August 2021 18: 26
              No, I do not know...
  10. +6
    21 August 2021 13: 45
    In general, as I understood, the main drawback of the presented weapons was that they could not knock out the enemy with a blow to the forehead with the butt.
    (aside): And where on the head is it better to hit the opponent with a solid object? To be sure? wassat )))
    1. +4
      21 August 2021 13: 49
      Quote: depressant
      (aside): And where on the head is it better to hit the opponent with a solid object? To be sure

      Well, Lyudmila Yakovlevna ...
      How not ay-ay-ay ... lol
      It hurts ...
      love
      1. +4
        21 August 2021 14: 45
        Valentin Ilyich, good afternoon! )))
        Let the one who gets it take care of the pain. Next time he will think before climbing.
        The main advantage of any weapon is that it does not hurt the user. And if the user thinks about the pain of the opponent, then the pain will go to him.
        Is not it?
        1. +3
          21 August 2021 16: 15
          Good afternoon, Lyudmila Yakovlevna!
          hi
          Everything is correct. And most importantly - in a feminine way.
    2. +4
      21 August 2021 17: 13
      And where on the head is it better to hit the opponent with a hard object? To be sure?

      In the crown. Best of all - with an ax. Then definitely for sure.
      1. +4
        21 August 2021 17: 22
        Quote: Undecim
        And where on the head is it better to hit the opponent with a hard object? To be sure?

        In the crown. Best of all - with an ax. Then for sure for sure

        This is not feminine technology ...
        There are women in Russian villages. S. Pisakhov confirmed.
        1. +7
          21 August 2021 17: 33
          Well, now, they put my psychology on the shelves! )))
          Although I am from a Russian village, in fact, I am not at all a supporter of contact combat with a butt. She asked out of curiosity. If you already used the butt, where did you beat?
          In my mind, there is nothing like a point blank shot wassat )))
          1. +4
            21 August 2021 17: 41
            In my mind, there is nothing like a point blank shot

            Great choice! Fragments of a skull scattering in different directions and splashes of the enemy's brains - no ax will give such an aesthetic spectacle.
            1. +4
              21 August 2021 17: 47
              Hang the sheet only at the back.
            2. +5
              21 August 2021 17: 53
              Yes, I can bear it somehow! If only there was a result of sending a cursed soul to hell wassat )))

              But the best result is purely visual combat use. This is when the enemy runs, and a wet trail follows him. Save ammunition!
          2. +3
            21 August 2021 17: 52
            not a supporter of contact combat with a butt

            During the Second World War, during the mass production of PPSh stocks, they faced a problem, usually made of birch. And in the area around one plant there were only pines, but you can't make pine from pine, it turned out to be too fragile, the butt was too fragile, once you hit your PPSh on the head without a butt. They thought, thought, well, as always, one grandfather suggested ... they lined up the female staff of the plant and buckets .... ordered to urinate only there. Pine after soaking, namely soaking, acquired the necessary qualities for the butt. And the soldiers at the front wondered why one butt was yellow and the other red. Well, they chose an expensive "mahogany" tree. We smelled the contribution of our ladies to the butt.
          3. +4
            21 August 2021 21: 03
            Quote: depressant
            Although I am from a Russian village, in fact, I am not at all a supporter of contact combat.

            As a child, I witnessed when my neighbor, Aunt Masha, hit a motorcyclist in the head with a rolling pin from a distance of 30 meters from the window. It's good that he was wearing a helmet. It's bad that she was aiming at her husband a drunk in the garden. laughing
            Lyudmila Yakovlevna do not be offended just for God's sake, I could not resist joking !!!
            1. +2
              21 August 2021 21: 50
              The joke is appreciated! drinks )))
              The motorcyclist is awarded sympathy, the law of meanness - confirmation. There is also a special case - the law of meanness of things. Here you need, say, to carefully place the knife in the rack, and he, unable to resist, falls, moreover, slides past the table and right behind the gas stove. Getting it is a problem, a whole business.
              But if you deliberately try to throw this knife, or push it off the table so that it falls over that plate, it will not work for anything!
              People who succeed in something like this are called athletes and the meanness of things overcomes their entire sports life. Only a few of them manage to get in touch with the soul of the object and agree on joint action. For this they are given medals wassat )))
              1. +2
                21 August 2021 22: 19
                The fate of the villainess proved the butter sandwich falls on the floor, butter down!
                1. +1
                  21 August 2021 22: 41
                  No, why so?
                  Now, if you make 1000 sandwiches and start dropping them, you can get 50 to 50. The law of large numbers!
                  True, if the experience becomes known, then the angry crowd will begin to drop you)))
                  1. +1
                    21 August 2021 22: 51
                    Quote: depressant
                    Now, if you make 1000 sandwiches and start dropping them, you can get 50 to 50. The law of large numbers!

                    Lyudmila Yakovlevna,
                    I would be extremely grateful if you would invite me to visit when you make these 1000 sandwiches (you can even 100) with butter and black caviar ...
                    feel
                    1. +2
                      21 August 2021 23: 18
                      No, thank you, Valentin Ilyich!
                      I can guarantee a couple of sandwiches with butter, you won't wait for caviar, we won't hold it!
                      Oh, how difficult it is to communicate with you oligarchs!
                      Appetites ... Requests ...
                      1. +2
                        21 August 2021 23: 50
                        Sadness ... crying
                      2. +1
                        22 August 2021 12: 57
                        Sadness ...

                        I used to bake cakes myself. The sadness is that once I got tired of it.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. +3
        21 August 2021 17: 44
        If you remember how the cattle were slaughtered, before the mechanization of the process, the ax is redundant.
        1. +2
          21 August 2021 17: 52
          Vopro was - so "for sure".
          And about cattle - a separate conversation.
        2. +4
          21 August 2021 17: 52
          It was believed that slaughtering sea pinnipeds on fur with a stick is not humane.
          We tried poisons, firearms.
          Not humane.
          And it turned out that the great-great-grandfather's way of "chekmarem" on the skull is the most humane way. The animal lost consciousness and did not react to further actions of the hunter. crying !
  11. +4
    21 August 2021 15: 31
    Well, here ... in the end, I waited! Somewhere, a year ago I asked the Author to give a "narration" of the Meigs (Mages) rifle ... The Author promised ... and here it is ...! As the saying goes, "all is well that ends well!" ... recourse
  12. +6
    21 August 2021 17: 22
    the cylinder of the magazine is coated with an alloy "German silver".

    Vyacheslav Olegovich, why not write in Russian - covered with nickel silver.
    1. +5
      21 August 2021 17: 39
      Appreciated the humor!)))
      Although, if we proceed from the history of our technologies, nickel silver is in Russian. wassat )))
      1. +4
        21 August 2021 17: 48
        Here I am tormented by doubts about the "covered".
        I think the part is made of it.
        1. +2
          21 August 2021 18: 01
          They actually make cutlery. Forks, spoons, knives, tongs, shovels, etc. Stacked together in a beautiful case. Turn the hook, or unlock the lock, and there, on a special base covered with silk fabric, this is all)))
          1. +3
            21 August 2021 18: 21
            In those distant years, about which in the article, a weapon device was made from it.
  13. +3
    21 August 2021 17: 24
    If I am not mistaken: "German silver" is nickel. Why "German", probably in Germany, first began to nickel?
    1. +5
      21 August 2021 17: 45
      Nickel silver - cupronickel.
      According to legend, it was invented in the XNUMXth century in China and was called "Pakfong". Cupronickel cutlery came to Europe in the XNUMXth century and was called "Chinese silver". However, all attempts of European alchemists to unravel the recipe and technology for obtaining the alloy for a long time remained unsuccessful.

      The mass production of cupronickel cutlery was started in Germany in the XNUMXth century and almost immediately they came to the Russian Empire. At the same time, initially copper, zinc and nickel were used to obtain cupronickel.
      1. +3
        21 August 2021 17: 55
        Lyudmila Yakovlevna, you "killed" me: expected from Vic. Nika., He is a walking encyclopedia, and now you are in the encyclopedists
        1. +4
          21 August 2021 18: 20
          Svyatoslav, don't scare me like that, live long! love )))
          I am just a parody of an encyclopedia, a recognized expert with us - Viktor Nikolaevich.
          By the way, it did not endure the magnetic storms from 16 to 20 August very badly. Our Kostya, Sea Cat, somewhere today said that he could not sleep for a long time. Today I managed to sleep only 2,5 hours. There was something strange - no sleep, that's all!
          1. +3
            21 August 2021 18: 27
            Quote: depressant
            There was something strange - no sleep, that's all!

            And I broke someone else's chainsaw, and I couldn't sleep for a long time either ... Then I fixed it in ten minutes, and slept soundly. Learn from experience, Lyudmila Yakovlevna! love
            1. +3
              21 August 2021 18: 56
              Go outside and break something? )))
              It will not work purposefully, I do not know how to break someone else's, inner gatehouse. Sometimes I drop dishes. You can't fix glass! Hmmm ...
              To be able to fix life. What a pity that you can't turn it back.
              1. +2
                21 August 2021 19: 21
                Quote: depressant
                To be able to fix life.

                It won't work alone.
                1. 0
                  22 August 2021 13: 42
                  There are such lives that are repaired only by the adoption of the necessary state laws. Well, you know what our laws are. Themselves require repair.
            2. +1
              21 August 2021 22: 24
              Quote: Mordvin 3

              And I broke someone else's chainsaw, and I couldn't sleep for a long time either ... Then I fixed it in ten minutes, and slept soundly.

              I'm afraid dear Vladimir, when after midnight you checked how the chainsaw works, your neighbors were not happy !!! drinks
              1. +2
                22 August 2021 13: 48
                Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                when after midnight you checked how the chainsaw works, your neighbors were not happy !!!

                No, I just came to work an hour early, fixed everything, sharpened it, and fucked up better than Karla's dad. And now I sit and think, why the heck do I need all this? Should I fix everything?
      2. +4
        21 August 2021 18: 26
        Nickel silver is not cupronickel. Cupronickel is a two-component alloy, nickel silver is three. In nickel silver there is also zinc, in cupronickel there is no zinc.
        1. +3
          21 August 2021 19: 01
          Well, yes.
          Due to the presence of zinc, nickel silver is cheaper and lighter. Some old cupronickel devices were engraved with nickel silver. Hence some confusion.
    2. +2
      21 August 2021 17: 49
      If I'm not mistaken

      You are wrong. German or "new silver" is nickel silver.
  14. +1
    21 August 2021 22: 25
    In 1881 he developed the construction of a monorail railway, and in 1884 he built an experimental flyover railway track with a length of a third of a mile.

  15. 0
    22 August 2021 19: 59
    Thanks for the information. if in our literature there were rifle cuts with applied magazines, then without explanation. It's good if there was a designer's surname. And basically an example, as a weapon of the absurd. It turns out that rifles used, at one time, success and were relatively reliable in operation.
  16. 0
    26 August 2021 20: 28
    Interestingly, Izhevsk gunsmiths read these articles and afterwards they are not ashamed of the MC-20, pneumatics ...
  17. +1
    27 August 2021 10: 02
    Among such “killer doctors” was the American dentist from Thomaston, Maine, Warren R. Evans, who, with the help of his brother George, managed to create ... the most repeating rifle in the world! However, still not the most, but reliable and widespread enough, because they managed to release it in the amount of about 15 copies.

    Well, the most multiply charged "multiple charge" was invented by another American - Josiah Vincent Meigs, and if we consider his work and Evans' work, then it was he who was the first, but Evans was only the second. AND

    What is this lump of shit ?! Author, spit the dummy out of your mouth! The first hero created the most repeating rifle ever! Then comes a crumpled piece of his biography, then suddenly - in fact, I fucked up, because I have a mess in my head, and another person created the most recharging rifle ... Ugh! What is this incoherent chatter ?! How can you disrespect the reader so much that you throw such pearls on him instead of text? Shame.
  18. 0
    13 October 2021 10: 17
    The article is interesting, the performance characteristics of the rifles are not fully given. And of course the article requires proofreading ...

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