F-35C: expected success in debut

197

The carrier force, led by the Carl Vinson aircraft carrier (of the Nimitz class), left the base in San Diego on the Pacific coast and headed across the Pacific Ocean to the Middle East.

The trip is generally routine, with the goal of training the crew, practicing training tasks with allies and protecting US interests in the Middle East.



But there is one significant difference.

Aviation The Carl Vinson Group will for the first time use a carrier-based modification of the latest F-35C fighter-bomber.


Simultaneously with the F-35C, it is planned to use the EA-18G electronic warfare aircraft and the latest modernization of the E-2D AWACS aircraft.

F-35C: expected success in debut
Electronic warfare aircraft EA-18G


AWACS aircraft Grumman E-2D

American specialists are confident that this combination will provide the aircraft with maximum efficiency in performing the assigned tasks. Experts argue that such a grouping of aircraft is capable of destroying enemy radars, command posts, tracking and guidance centers and fighters before the enemy can even detect a strike group in the air.

Therefore, the aviation group "Karl Vinson" has been somewhat changed. In addition to the latest modification of the Supercot F / A-18E-F, there will be a dozen F-35Cs on board. The EA-18G “Growler” electronic warfare aircraft will also be larger than usual: seven instead of five in the state. And there are also more AWACS E-2D "Hawkeyes" aircraft: five instead of four.

This only suggests that, indeed, the command's plans include a very active use of electronic reconnaissance and warfare aircraft in groups with fighter-bombers.

Plus, on board the aircraft carrier there is a new modification of the CMV-22B "Osprey", the capabilities of which will also be tested in the conditions of the upcoming exercises.


Considering that before going to sea, the flight crew of the air groups was able to receive sufficient training on the ground, all that remains is to work out the application directly from the deck.

The new aircraft wing layout scheme, according to American military experts, will have not only greater efficiency in inflicting damage on the enemy, but also greater survivability.

The stake will be placed on the EA-18G "Growler", which will be the center of non-kinetic attacks against the enemy, and an increase in the number of these aircraft will give the air group more opportunities to repel electronic warfare attacks from the enemy, and more impact on the enemy by all non-kinetic methods.


Plus an increase in the number of "eyes" in the form of an additional and, moreover, modernized E-2D, which carries out aerial control of the space.

And the initial trump card of the F-35C in the form of radar stealth and the latest avionics becomes the third component that increases the wing's chances of survival in combat conditions.

So, reconnaissance, early detection of the enemy, the use of electronic warfare to suppress enemy detection systems, stealth and missiles.

And American experts believe that the main thing in this is to limit the enemy's ability to detect American air groups. Indeed, enemy reconnaissance assets can be disabled by surprise attacks from the F-35C, which will be guided by the target designations of the E-2D and under the reliable cover of the EA-18G. Well, then it's the usual thing - the Americans know how to work with complete air superiority.


So the prospects really (in the opinion of the Americans) have a place to be.

And about logistics. Here, too, there are some innovations.

Previously, all transport functions for urgent deliveries on board an aircraft carrier (personnel, mail, spare parts and other useful cargo) were assigned to the C-2A "Greyhound".


The old Greyhound has been plowing for the Navy since 1966 and it is high time to replace it. There is nothing eternal.

By the way, the E-2D Hawkeye was also created by Grumman on the basis of the C-2A. With all the ensuing consequences.

Now transport and logistics operations are planned to be assigned to the CMV-22B "Osprey", not an airplane, but a tiltrotor. The most interesting thing here is that the Osprey's cargo compartment can accommodate, for example, an engine for the F-35, which is not possible with the compartment on the C-2A. And this is a very big step forward in terms of the technical reliability of the entire aviation group.


In addition, the CMV-22B has long been used by the United States Marine Corps. Famous car. The CMV-22B can fly at night, which was not available for the C-2A. The tiltrotor is certified for night flights, and although personnel are not officially transported at night, in case of accidents when it is necessary to urgently bring spare parts and equipment, the CMV-22B will be very useful.

Plus, the tiltrotor has a longer range than an airplane.

In general, the strike group is quite successful. One could look for flaws in it, but ...

Unfortunately, we do not have anything even close at our disposal. The 5th generation carrier-based fighter is only in words (yes, the MiG-29K is 4+, but this is the MiG-29K, an aircraft from the last century), there are no electronic warfare and AWACS carrier-based aircraft at all.

We often say that an aircraft carrier is a tool for fighting third world countries. Very vulnerable to attacks such as submarines.

In general, as the practice of using AUG by the United States shows, this is indeed the case. And in terms of "education" of third world countries, and in terms of vulnerability.

However, this kind of projection of power, which the United States will experience in practice in terms of the use of new aircraft, and possibly successful, makes us look differently at so useless aircraft carriers. AUG from an aircraft carrier, 1-2 missile cruisers and 6-8 destroyers will be very effective weapons in any local conflict.

Although "Zircon" or "Caliber" can still become a limitation of the capabilities of the AUG, even in the new format. But this is a topic for another conversation. As well as the possibility of Russian and Chinese detection equipment.
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197 comments
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  1. +19
    23 August 2021 02: 32
    No, really, it's good that they came up with Zircon or Caliber, even though there is something to believe in.
    1. -6
      23 August 2021 04: 33
      Zircon was invented, the second sample (Caliber) is conservative enough to doubt its qualities and availability in service. Therefore, no one hides, on the contrary, Calibers "shine" in all the details - from the appearance to the features of the layout and personnel of combat use.

      Zircon is a bluff for domestic consumption. They feed exclusively to Russians. When the retirement age is raised to one hundred years, Zircon will reach the speed of light)))

      There is not a single reason to believe that they were able to provide 8M in the atmosphere. Not a ballistic missile; it is the aerodynamic flight with scramjet that is declared. I have repeatedly cited comparative examples of other modern weapons and compared their performance characteristics with the declared characteristics of Zircon. Comparisons show that 8M in the atmosphere goes far beyond the known technology. At the level of a manned flight to the stars

      The footage of a missile coming out of the frigate's launch cell does not say anything. If the name Zircon is given retroactively to any modification of Onyx, then the hypersonic anti-ship missile system, as it was, will remain a cartoon.

      Again. Zircon is just a name. It was about creating a scramjet rocket for flights in the atmosphere at eight speeds of sound. It is impossible to create such a thing on the technologies of our time.
      1. -11
        23 August 2021 05: 15
        Quote: Santa Fe
        then the hypersonic anti-ship missile system, as it was, will remain a cartoon

        Yes Yes! And the Crimean bridge with Poseidon - the same from that opera! Yes And calibers more than 500 km did not fly to Syria - I remember exactly! good
        1. +5
          23 August 2021 05: 28
          And the Crimean bridge with Poseidon - the same from that opera! yes And calibers more than 500 km did not fly to Syria - I remember exactly!

          Poseidon is another cartoon. For 100 nodes under water, a nuclear power plant is required with a specific power 15 times higher than that of a reactor with a liquid metal coolant, used on the fastest Soviet submarines pr 705 Lira

          About the Crimean bridge, I did not understand at all why you dragged it here
          1. +3
            23 August 2021 05: 54
            Quote: Santa Fe
            Poseidon is another cartoon.

            You see, I got tired of listening from every hole that all the achievements of the Russian Federation are cartoons, that the Americans are afraid of them to cut the dough, that this "cannot be, because it cannot!" ... They are equally versed in the Air Force, Navy, tank building and yes in bridges!
            1. +22
              23 August 2021 06: 01
              You see, I got sick of listening from every hole that all the achievements of the Russian Federation are cartoons.

              Many of the claimed achievements are not true

              Bragging about the secret super-technology that allows 8M in the atmosphere and 100 knots under water, amid the obvious difficulties in creating the most traditional weapons. 1 Su-57 without a second stage engine in the troops, after 12 years of presentations - against this background, the statement about the creation of an eight-speed rocket with a scramjet engine looks absurd

              "The more monstrous the lie, the more willingly they believe in it" (c)
              1. -5
                23 August 2021 06: 10
                Quote: Santa Fe
                Claims of the emergence of covert supertechnologies allowing 8M in the atmosphere and 100 knots underwater

                One of the group of "Kulibins" who invented a "miracle heater" based on the swirling of a liquid, was brought before the "court" of venerable professors and academicians.
                Professor:
                - You are a liar! Nobody canceled the laws of physics! You cannot spend energy for 10, and get 50 at the output !!!
                Kulibin:
                - Your data has become obsolete since 1945, because spending on the minimum energy to collide two substances, we get megatons of energy at the output! wink
                1. +17
                  23 August 2021 06: 33
                  Megatons of energy ... Our people massively believed that by investing 100 rubles, you can withdraw 1000 in a month, this is in a country where the economy was going through far from the best times

                  Promises and belief in 8 speeds of sound are just a harmless repetition of an offensive story
                  1. -7
                    23 August 2021 08: 08
                    Quote: Santa Fe
                    Megatons of energy

                    Hiroshima-Nagasaki will confirm Yes
                    1. +6
                      23 August 2021 19: 49
                      Quote: Babay Atasovich
                      Quote: Santa Fe
                      Megatons of energy

                      Hiroshima-Nagasaki will confirm Yes

                      Nonsense.
                      The laws of conservation of energy really work
                      The energies that were spent on ore mining, the production of "commercial" uranium or plutonium, the production of a blasting blasting agent, the shell and body of the SpetsBCh are fully comparable to the energy yield in a nuclear explosion.

                      Do not fire so hard that you are not thought of as a completely illiterate creature ...
                      1. 0
                        23 August 2021 21: 17
                        Quote: SovAr238A
                        Nonsense

                        Are you talking about this?

                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        Bragging about the secret super-technology that allows 8M in the atmosphere and 100 knots under water, amid the obvious difficulties in creating the most traditional weapons.

                        Or about the story of the "Kulibins"?
                      2. 0
                        16 November 2021 13: 59
                        And in a hydrogen explosion too? Do not make me laugh
                      3. 0
                        11 January 2022 03: 14
                        Are you completely bye-bye?
                  2. +3
                    23 August 2021 14: 07
                    So in fact it was really possible to withdraw 1000 out of 100 rubles. If you are not too greedy and guess over time. So 8M is some kind of extreme point. So is Poseidon. Why would he have a cruising speed of 100 knots? To make noise for the whole ocean? And 30 is enough for him.
                    1. 0
                      23 August 2021 19: 52
                      Quote: VicV
                      So in fact it was really possible to withdraw 1000 out of 100 rubles. If you are not too greedy and guess over time. So 8M is some kind of extreme point. So is Poseidon. Why would he have a cruising speed of 100 knots? To make noise for the whole ocean? And 30 is enough for him.

                      Why do you need a weapon that has a result in 2-3 weeks?
                      It is very slow for transoceanic crossings.
                      Moreover, the result is not guaranteed.
                      30 knots is also very loud.
                      And it can be destroyed for 30 years.
                      Ever since Captor-type mines were invented.
                  3. +4
                    23 August 2021 15: 43
                    Quote: Santa Fe
                    Our people massively believed that by investing 100 rubles, you can withdraw 1000 in a month, this is in a country where the economy was going through far from the best times

                    The most amazing thing is that it was possible in those conditions, this is how the pyramids work, those who begin to build a pyramid could easily get a thousand percent in a month.
                    Quote: Santa Fe
                    Promises and belief in 8 speeds of sound are just a harmless repetition of an offensive story

                    The most modern tanks are already capable of firing a projectile from the barrel at a speed of more than 2 m / s., which corresponds to 6M, but the rocket is flying over the ozone layer, 28 km. height, can not fly at 8M = 2,660 m / s, why?
                    1. +2
                      24 August 2021 14: 00
                      Dear saturn.mmm! I also asked a similar question to the "impossibilities". I am afraid that their instructions contain no information on this rather simple but extremely inconvenient question and we will not wait for an answer! smile
                2. +9
                  23 August 2021 08: 04
                  What a witty Kulibin!
                  But with the year I miscalculated.
                  Any bomb works just like that - from a fuse with a small power due to the internal energy of the exploding substance, and not just atomic.
                  Yes, and an ordinary stove, too, having spent a little effort on tossing coal into the furnace, we get a steam locomotive that pulls entire trains.
                  I'm not talking about heat pumps.
                  Here it is, a refutation of all the laws of physics!
                  hi
              2. +20
                23 August 2021 08: 59
                here as it is customary to minus those that speaks the truth. Hats are welcomed. The facts are not interesting, the statistics ... People do not want to believe this.
              3. +2
                23 August 2021 21: 36
                Why does it look absurd ... It's politics. Somewhere "7-8-9 swings." .. The main thing is working in the information war.
                Ps. For some reason, no one cares about the fact that from 6 to 7 M is a scientific breakthrough and Nobel Prizes in physics and chemistry ... Remind me where the scientific schools are and where?
            2. +4
              23 August 2021 10: 55
              That you stuck to him - that's their job. The main thing is that I mentioned pensions!
          2. 0
            23 August 2021 10: 54
            For 100 nodes under water, a nuclear power plant with a specific power 15 times higher than that of a reactor with a liquid metal coolant is required

            "Squall"? No, I haven’t heard ..
            1. +2
              23 August 2021 11: 35
              "Squall"? No, I have not heard
              Well, yes, Flurry is a great example. It also has a long cruising range, deep-sea and controlled, or I'm confusing something.
              1. -6
                23 August 2021 13: 43
                Quote: Pechkin
                Well, yes, Flurry is a great example. It also has a long cruising range, deep-sea and controlled, or I'm confusing something.

                This is the same cartoon !!! Because
                Nuclear propulsion required for 100 knots underwater with a specific power 15 times higher than that of a reactor with a liquid metal coolant used on the fastest Soviet submarines pr 705 Lira
                Yes
                1. +2
                  23 August 2021 19: 34
                  There is also something that cannot be overlooked, this is the hysteria of the "partners" and the demand to prohibit hypersound. We can deny what we cannot observe, but those who are supposed to know know and everyone saw the indirect reaction.
                  Well, the chorus of unbelievers on the forum cannot be canceled by anyone, their right
              2. +1
                23 August 2021 13: 47
                The professor was denied the ability to tame the plasma because SEVERAL AMERICAN INSTITUTIONS RECOGNIZED THE INDEPENDENCE OF IMPLEMENTATION AND CLOSED THE PROJECT...., and he tamed it with the students in the barn and gave it to the doctors!
                ...but anyway! Impossible! hi drinks
                1. +4
                  23 August 2021 19: 54
                  Quote: Babay Atasovich
                  The professor was denied the ability to tame the plasma because SEVERAL AMERICAN INSTITUTIONS RECOGNIZED THE INDEPENDENCE OF IMPLEMENTATION AND CLOSED THE PROJECT...., and he tamed it with the students in the barn and gave it to the doctors!
                  ...but anyway! Impossible! hi drinks

                  What is this stream of consciousness about?
                  1. +1
                    23 August 2021 21: 20
                    About cartoons over which they laugh, then scare them, and then envy! laughing
                    Quote: Babay Atasovich
                    You see, I got tired of listening from every hole that all the achievements of the Russian Federation are cartoons, that the Americans are afraid of them to cut the dough, that this "cannot be, because it cannot!" ... They are equally versed in the Air Force, Navy, tank building and yes in bridges!
              3. +4
                23 August 2021 17: 43
                Flurry is an unfortunate example: it has a short range, is not deep sea and does not have a homing system
                1. +3
                  23 August 2021 18: 25
                  Well, I wrote it, I had to add: sarcasm laughing
                2. +1
                  23 August 2021 21: 40
                  Flurry unfortunate example

                  It has a speed of up to 200 knots.
                  And until he appeared, it was believed that such a speed was impossible in water.
                  Flurry's price is not comparable to Poseidon's. Keep this in mind too. hi
                  1. +2
                    24 August 2021 07: 56
                    Nobody considered a speed of 200 knots for ammunition under water impossible. No tales and urban legends. Overseas, the topic of supercavitation was also studied, a line of underwater shells RAMICS was created
                    Another question, the military was not interested in unguided weapons, neither slow nor high-speed. Only Flurry found its practical niche during the Cold War

                    A squall straight forward torpedo with a cruising range of 10 km, and here is an example in general. For a mini-submarine, for transoceanic crossings, the rocket propulsion unit is inapplicable, the specific impulse is too small. EI must work for many days
            2. +3
              23 August 2021 19: 54
              Quote: paul3390
              For 100 nodes under water, a nuclear power plant with a specific power 15 times higher than that of a reactor with a liquid metal coolant is required

              "Squall"? No, I haven’t heard ..

              How long does the squall engine run?
              What energy does he manage to give out in this shortest time?
              You probably haven't heard of this for sure ...
            3. 0
              24 August 2021 07: 59
              "Squall"? No, I haven’t heard ..

              Jet submarine missile ... well, well

              How many seconds does her engine run
              And what is the range
          3. 0
            11 January 2022 03: 12
            Why would Poseidon be the size of "Lyre" to carry 50Mt, and yes, most likely he is on the atom, and we have the technology of small nuclear installations of several megawatts, if it has been announced for the Zeus spacecraft.
        2. +1
          24 August 2021 05: 48
          Quote: Babay Atasovich
          Yes Yes! And the Crimean bridge with Poseidon - the same from that opera! yes And calibers more than 500 km did not fly to Syria - I remember exactly!

          They flew to Syria, but at what speed?
          1. +1
            24 August 2021 10: 59
            Quote: onstar9
            They flew to Syria, but at what speed?

            The question is simple: on the forum, it was saliva that the calibers in the export version were not> 300 km range, but in the armament of the Russian Federation - not> 500 and links with figures from the WORLDWIDE RESPECTED ANALYTICAL PUBLICATIONS (TO THE CONCLUSION OF WHICH THE PENTAGON ITSELF IS LISTENING !!!). "Yes, with its dimensions, rudder area, fuel - you can spit out a maximum of 600 km! Yes, I am a hereditary rocket designer!" And then bam and fired for 1,5 thousand! So what? But how do you - at what speed? And at what altitude?, But they did not hit, etc. And somehow the "impossible" was quietly erased. The same about the Crimean bridge - you cannot hammer piles, the spans will not stand, but these are cartoons, but it is about to collapse ... Now they hypothesize how to destroy these "cartoons" in one fell swoop. And about the muddy bottom calmed down, and about cutting the dough into material for the bridge calmed down. And the calibers fly, and the bridge is worth it! There is no such concept of "impossible" - there is the concept of "time" and "fact"! May beetle, according to the laws of aerodynamics, cannot fly, but he wanted to spit! tongue drinks
            1. +1
              24 August 2021 12: 42
              Quote: Babay Atasovich
              Quote: onstar9
              They flew to Syria, but at what speed?

              The question is simple: on the forum, it was saliva that the calibers in the export version were not> 300 km range, but in the armament of the Russian Federation - not> 500 and links with figures from the WORLDWIDE RESPECTED ANALYTICAL PUBLICATIONS (TO THE CONCLUSION OF WHICH THE PENTAGON ITSELF IS LISTENING !!!). "Yes, with its dimensions, rudder area, fuel - you can spit out a maximum of 600 km! Yes, I am a hereditary rocket designer!" And then bam and fired for 1,5 thousand! So what? But how do you - at what speed? And at what altitude?, But they did not hit, etc. And somehow the "impossible" was quietly erased. The same about the Crimean bridge - you cannot hammer piles, the spans will not stand, but these are cartoons, but it is about to collapse ... Now they hypothesize how to destroy these "cartoons" in one fell swoop. And about the muddy bottom calmed down, and about cutting the dough into material for the bridge calmed down. And the calibers fly, and the bridge is worth it! There is no such concept of "impossible" - there is the concept of "time" and "fact"! May beetle, according to the laws of aerodynamics, cannot fly, but he wanted to spit! tongue drinks


              Don't fire.
              And May beetles and bumblebees fly just according to the laws of aerodynamics.
              It's just that those who once came up with this phrase were ignorant of aerodynamics.


              And don't lie.
              In this forum, literate people have always divided the Caliber into anti-ship and tactical.
              Just like the manufacturers did.
              Just like the Tomahawk did.
              There were anti-ship versions and tactical ones.

              Anti-ship versions really fly at a range of up to 500 km, in reality, usually the range of a subsonic anti-ship missile system was previously limited to 300-350 kilometers.
              And only due to the limited capabilities of the seeker and low flight speed, which allowed the target to go beyond the limits of the seeker in the terminal area when firing missiles from the maximum range.

              Tactical versions of the KR such as Tomahawk, Caliber (and they are essentially twin brothers) - fly at a range of 1500-2500 kilometers.
              They always flew like that.
              And everyone knew about it as well.


              Modern versions of the anti-ship Tamaghawk, due to the installation of a two-way satellite communication system and the processing of avionics, can fly up to 800 km.

              Only uryakalka did not know.
              who did not want to understand that there is a tactical version and an anti-ship one.
              For them, this is Caliber and that's it.


              And about 600 km I remember there were conversations.
              but in the context of a Possible modification of Onyx when refilling it with Decelin-M ...
              That's all.
              There were no such discussions about Caliber.
              1. +1
                24 August 2021 13: 51
                I expressed my opinion on such "uryakolok" from both sides. It was not enough to prove that there were such conversations heel to chest! I wish you success in rocketry and in the analysis of the strength of bridges! drinks
        3. +1
          24 August 2021 21: 35
          I remember how Russian, I emphasize, Russian military experts were stunned and confused when Calibers were launched from the Caspian Sea ....... This cannot be ... The flight range of the Calibers is only 600 km ... they knew for sure, we would have been told ...
      2. +2
        23 August 2021 05: 17
        The declared characteristics in the 8M atmospheric cruising flight during the tests were probably recorded by means of control of the 'partners', and would be immediately refuted in case of discrepancy. The mystery of the century continues to be the behavior of the product at the terminal site.
        1. +1
          23 August 2021 05: 40
          The declared characteristics in the 8M atmospheric cruising section of the flight during the tests were probably recorded by means of control of the 'partners', and it would be that hour disprovedin case of discrepancy.

          Not refuted or confirmed. No information at all from the "partners"

          They did not see anything, due to the lack of high-altitude tests with hypersonic

          What passed off as Zircon did not come close to a great height, where it could be detected by means of control at a distance of hundreds of kilometers

          Where and on what trajectory the launched rocket flew away, this of course was not shown to the public. The Ministry of Defense, represented by the Konashenkovs, habitually mutters, "all the missiles hit the target."
          1. +3
            23 August 2021 06: 18
            The fact that "... did not come close to a great height" just indicates that the flight took place in the atmosphere. The speed is easily determined by enemy satellites, and the fact that the target was on the range, and not in the tundra, is also easy to establish.
            1. +5
              23 August 2021 06: 39
              ... The speed is easily determined by enemy satellites,

              Yuri, no country in the world has a reconnaissance constellation of satellites capable of tracking any part of the Earth at any time. This is not possible for economic reasons, it would take hundreds of units to run and maintain that number all the time. EMNIP, even an hour interval has now been recognized as unrealistic

              No objective means of control exist to track low-altitude targets or any event in the interior of the country, constantly, in real time
              1. +2
                23 August 2021 07: 19
                Why, then, any part of the Earth is quite specific, the area closed to the entire moving area and the time of testing is notified in advance. And, besides a bunch of companions, there are all sorts of different spies and their accomplices.
                1. +3
                  23 August 2021 07: 33
                  Why is anyone, a piece of the Earth quite specific, about a region closed to the entire moving area and the time of testing is notified in advance

                  This will not change the target satellite trajectories in any way.

                  The position and time of flight of which is known, and especially for the secrecy of the tests, a "window" is selected when the territory is out of the view of any of the satellites
                  1. +2
                    23 August 2021 07: 48
                    The topic is so interesting to the West that the necessary means and forces will be found and not only in space, our "Karelia" was able to be present at the missile defense test.
              2. -1
                23 August 2021 07: 38
                Who will upload secret information to you on the forum? They say there is no God, no one has seen him.
              3. +1
                23 August 2021 11: 17
                Quote: Santa Fe
                ... No objective means of control exist to track low-altitude targets or any event in the interior of the country, constantly, in real time


                Not yet. In the foreseeable future, everything will change. They will be able to track the territory. But with low-altitude targets, of course, it is more difficult. On the other hand, on 8M Zircon will give not weak Doppler illumination, no stealth will help (and there is also plasma on the body).

                But for hypersonic targets, they still plan to use low-orbit satellites with IR sensors - powerful engines, a hot body, a lot of work is being done on this topic:

                https://nplus1.ru/news/2020/05/18/satellites
                https://nplus1.ru/news/2021/01/26/satellite
                http://redstar.ru/v-pogone-za-giperzvukom/
                1. +3
                  23 August 2021 21: 44
                  The States track ballistic missiles, but Zircon, from known launch sites, cannot. lol
                  1. +1
                    24 August 2021 08: 16
                    The States track ballistic missiles, but Zircon, from known launch sites, cannot.

                    If it is Onyx, launched on a low-altitude trajectory, then how can it be tracked from a long distance

                    Radio horizon
            2. 0
              23 August 2021 08: 44
              The speed is easily determined by enemy satellites,

              Yuri, tests are always carried out when there are no reconnaissance satellites over the ranges. And one more thing: in Russia they use the term "satellite", not "satellite". Where did you go to study at Harvard?
              1. 0
                23 August 2021 12: 16
                Of course, at Harvard, where you can still study. Are you really an Aviator? Have you met DiCaprio?
                1. +4
                  23 August 2021 17: 34
                  Repeatedly. Although you can learn Russian, you write in Western terms.
                  1. 0
                    24 August 2021 02: 27
                    Well, if it hurts you like that, I will certainly teach you.
          2. +1
            23 August 2021 07: 05
            Quote: Santa Fe
            Where and on what trajectory the launched rocket flew away, this of course was not shown to the public. The Ministry of Defense, represented by the Konashenkovs, habitually mutters, "all the missiles hit the target."

            "Mumbled" Gerasimov V.V.
          3. +2
            23 August 2021 11: 27
            Partners turn any blunder or failure of the Russian Federation inside out and the chorus of mass media and trolls is connected. And here everyone keeps quiet. They keep quiet - it means it was. Another thing is that to test a prototype is one thing, but to take it into service and put it in the army en masse is quite another ...
        2. +1
          24 August 2021 09: 13
          Quote: Yuri V.A.
          The declared characteristics in the 8M atmospheric cruising flight during the tests were probably recorded by means of control of the 'partners', and would be immediately refuted in case of discrepancy. The mystery of the century continues to be the behavior of the product at the terminal site.

          And we bribed them, just like they did ours when they flew to the moon: D usually here it is customary to sculpt such an excuse
      3. +3
        23 August 2021 21: 55
        Please tick the box.
        1. 0
          24 August 2021 08: 03
          Please tick the box.

          Hypersonic 8M in the atmosphere, anti-ship complex with a hypersonic ramjet engine

          Nuclear-powered cruise missile

          Underwater drone with a range of thousands of kilometers and a cruising speed of 100 knots

          All these "superweapons" were and remain fake. Check the box yourself
          1. 0
            24 August 2021 14: 07
            Quote: Santa Fe
            Hypersound 8M in the atmosphere,


            For information:
            1.Tank projectile, sub-caliber, flies about 2 km / s no higher than 50 -100 m from the surface of the earth.
            2. 2 m / s is about 000 Machs.
            3. No plasma is observed around the projectile.
            The question is - how is this possible?
            1. 0
              24 August 2021 15: 34
              You are comparing a stupid balvanka weighing 20 kg, which flies maximum 3 km, with about a 3-ton rocket, on which there is a seeker, which this plasma can interfere with when searching and detecting targets, which must be maneuvered at the same time!?!? !? Are you serious!?!?!? laughing
              I wonder how you explain the flight speed of an ATGM fired from the same tank cannon, which flies only 283 m / s, this is about Mach 0.8 (this is subsonic speed)!?!?!? laughing
              1. +2
                24 August 2021 16: 44
                Quote: Sanguinius
                You are comparing a stupid balvanka weighing 20 kg, which flies maximum for 3 km, with about a 3-ton rocket,

                No, I am not comparing - for I understand the differences. The whole question is what Santa Fe stated above about principled impossibility of reaching Mach 8 in the atmosphere. Only..

                Quote: Sanguinius
                .. on which there is a seeker, which this plasma can interfere with when searching and detecting targets, which must be maneuvered at the same time!?!?!?

                Read again what "plasma" is and the conditions necessary for its formation.
                Hot, very hot sheathing is not plasma! Interference to the GOS - possibly and most likely. Where and how is the GOS located? What are the material, shape and "operating conditions" of the nose cone and toes of the steering surfaces? Do not know? No? What then are we talking about? About guesses?

                Quote: Sanguinius
                I wonder how you explain the flight speed of an ATGM fired from the same tank cannon, which flies only 283 m / s, this is about Mach 0.8 (this is subsonic speed)!?!?!? laughing

                I explain it like this:
                1.smooth start to withstand the electronics and mechanisms inside the ATGM.
                2.relatively small size of ATGM = small fuel reserve for acceleration
                3. the need to adjust the flight remotely or homing. In other words, it "takes" time for the reaction of the "flight controller", because the distance of the use of ATGMs is relatively small. But let's say the UR "Whirlwind", launched from an order of magnitude greater distances than classic ATGMs, is already quite supersonic ...
                PS Sanguinius, and you are interested in ATGMs for what purpose?
                1. 0
                  24 August 2021 18: 12
                  the question is that Santa Fe stated above about the fundamental impossibility of reaching Mach 8 in the atmosphere

                  I didn't say that, you came up with it yourself

                  We've been discussing hypersonic aircraft here from the beginning. For the sake of brevity, this moment has been called the "8M hypersound in the atmosphere." Next to it is an explanation - an anti-ship complex with a scramjet engine. Read carefully before making absurd comments.

                  And here is the blank, dispersed in the barrel of a tank gun with a powder charge
                  1. 0
                    25 August 2021 09: 40
                    Quote: Santa Fe
                    I didn't say that, you came up with it yourself

                    Did not say? This is your first comment on this article:
                    "I have repeatedly cited comparative examples of other modern weapons and compared their performance characteristics with the declared characteristics of Zircon. Comparisons show that 8M in the atmosphere goes far beyond the known technology. At the level of a manned flight to the stars ".
                    You yourself made an important remark: within the framework of well-known technologies. And what about technologies you don't know about? smile

                    Quote: Santa Fe
                    Next to it is an explanation - an anti-ship complex with a scramjet engine. Read carefully before making absurd comments.

                    I read it. In general terms, I understand the problems of the full functioning of the complex when driving at such speeds. I don't quite understand how they can be solved within the framework of known technologies and materials. But this does not mean at all that they cannot be solved in principle!
                    1. 0
                      25 August 2021 10: 41
                      Did not say? This is your first comment on this article:

                      Everywhere it was about the ANTI-SHIPPING COMPLEX, and not about blanks fired from a tank barrel. Or meteorites that flew into the atmosphere from space at a speed of tens of km / s
                      full functioning of the complex when driving at such speeds.

                      Operating at this speed is the smallest problem

                      The main question is how they are going to accelerate to 8M. There is an example of such acceleration - the 19-ton Pegasus launch vehicle, which was used in the tests of the hypersonic X-43. To achieve the speed of the vehicles at which its scramjet will start. Now look at the size of the ship's launch cell from which the "eight-speed Zircon" starts

                      Remark - a motor for speed, for example, 5M and 8M are VERY different speeds and motors of different design. You cannot overclock the device to 5M, with the expectation that the switched on scramjet will accelerate it to 8M. It will remain on 5M, in its operating range. If you want 8M - catch a 19-ton rocket and accelerate forward, up to the speed at which the operation of the "eight-speed" scramjet engine will become possible
                      And what about technologies you don't know about?

                      If a combat-ready complex already exists on their basis, then the technologies should be known for a long time.
                      And applied not only in one single product Zircon
                      1. 0
                        25 August 2021 14: 49
                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        The main question is how they are going to accelerate to 8M. There is an example of such acceleration - the 19-ton Pegasus launch vehicle, which was used in the tests of the hypersonic X-43 ...
                        ... If you want an 8M - catch a 19-ton rocket and accelerate forward, up to the speed at which the operation of an "eight-speed" scramjet engine will become possible ...

                        А235 missile defense complex, 53Т6 missile (1995). Starting weight 10tn. The dimensions of the UKSK 3S14 are suitable .. The speed reaches 3 km / s ... The technologies are quite well-known (in narrow circles) .. It is clear that the tasks are completely different, the construct is completely different and the "filling" is not the same ... But nevertheless , 26 years ago, 1 meter in diameter, 10 meters in length and 3 km / sec ... smile

                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        You cannot overclock the device to 5M, with the expectation that the switched on scramjet will accelerate it to 8M.

                        Of course, I am not an expert in scramjet engines, but otherwise, the RD is not a specialist, but I just thought, why can't it be overclocked immediately to Mach 8? Is the scramjet purely to maintain speed? Does the same 53T6 reach 3 km / s? Reaches.
                        What's the problem?
                      2. 0
                        25 August 2021 20: 35
                        А235 missile defense complex, 53Т6 missile (1995). Starting weight 10tn.

                        Congratulations, this time you independently proved that an "eight-speed" anti-ship missile with the characteristics of a Zircon is not even science fiction. This is just nonsense

                        From example 53T6 - to accelerate the warhead to a speed of 10M, a rocket with a launch weight of almost 10 tons was required

                        You can argue that the speed of the Zircon is only 8M, it requires less energy to accelerate

                        Now look at the 53T6 payload. The mass of the warhead in the sources is estimated at 500-700 kg

                        In the case of Zircon, this is a scramjet engine with a fuel supply for flight at a distance of hundreds of kilometers, a warhead, a guidance system + a mass of thermal protection. RCC is not an acute "carrot" like the Nudoli warhead.

                        For all this, as shown by example 53T6, you will have 500-700 kg

                        Let me remind you that the Waverider apparatus (reached the speed of Mach 5) had a mass of 1800 kg. Without any seeker and warhead, tk. the waverider was not a combat missile. Of course, 1800 kg - excluding its accelerator, which was the first stage of the ATACAMS ballistic missile
                        but then I thought, why can't you overclock it to Mach 8 right away?

                        Not possible, but necessary

                        The scramjet booster / booster will have a mass of 19 tons, that is the problem. A living example - a bunch of X-43 / Pegasus
                      3. 0
                        26 August 2021 11: 31
                        [quote = Santa Fe] [quote] Congratulations, this time you independently proved that an "eight-speed" anti-ship missile with the characteristics of Zircon is not even science fiction. This is just nonsense [/ quote]
                        Thanks for the congratulations, but I didn't prove anything to you! I gave an example that the speed of Mach 8 is quite achievable in the atmosphere by an apparatus in the dimensions of a Zircon based on known technologies. Only.

                        [quote = Santa Fe] [quote] From example 53T6 - to accelerate the warhead to a speed of 10M, a rocket with a launch weight of almost 10 tons was required
                        You can argue that the speed of the Zircon is only 8M, it requires less energy to accelerate
                        Now look at the 53T6 payload. The mass of the warhead in the sources is estimated at 500-700 kg ...
                        ... In the case of Zircon, this is a scramjet engine with a fuel supply for flight at a distance of hundreds of kilometers, a warhead, a guidance system + a mass of thermal protection. RCC is not a "carrot" of an acute form, like the Nudoli warhead. [/ Quote]
                        I understand the problem. I never said that Zircon is built like 53T6. And I will not object to the difference in speed. I can only assume that, due to the different tasks of 53T6 and Zircon, different periods of time are permissible for them to reach max / cruise speed: for 53T6, the maximum speed is declared about 3 seconds. Overloads - up to 100g, combat radius - up to 100 km, accelerator operation time - 12 sec. I want to say that 10 tons of starting mass is far from just fuel ... I think that about 1 - 1,5 tons for a strong body of the 53T6 accelerator can be safely added to 500 kg of warheads.
                        Zircon does not need this - speed and height can be gained more smoothly, relatively, of course. As an option - climb, where the resistance is less and already there, further acceleration. Again, these are my thoughts.

                        [quote = Santa Fe] [quote] The scramjet booster / booster will weigh 19 tons, that's the problem. A living example is a bunch of X-43 / Pegasus [/ quote]
                        Well, why are you giving this X-43 and ATACAMS as an example? This is not at all an indicator of the level of development of rocketry! Well, they were able to disperse it with the help of a 19-ton rocket, so what? What is ATACAMS - a scientific and technical limit? There is nothing more perfect and technologically advanced?
                2. 0
                  25 August 2021 10: 14
                  Quote: Perforator
                  In other words, time is "necessary" for the reaction of the "flight controller", because the distance of the use of ATGMs is relatively small. But let's say the UR "Whirlwind", launched from an order of magnitude greater distances than classic ATGMs, is already quite supersonic ...

                  "Cocoon" for "Sturm" 50 years ago was supersonic, and at a range of 400 - 5000 m feel
          2. 0
            29 August 2021 09: 48
            One figure announced about eating a bucket with a certain substance if I can build a "Crimean bridge" what will YOU eat if the "Zircon" will fly at the declared speeds? The activist refused to eat, as I understand you, you will also merge with the screams of this other, taken out of context, and did you not understand?
      4. +1
        24 August 2021 03: 36
        Santa Fe in other words, don't believe anyone's stories or even videos. But believe my tales? Until Santa Fe was called and shown, convinced personally, do not believe anyone.
        1. 0
          24 August 2021 08: 13
          Santa Fe in other words, don't believe anyone's stories or even videos.

          The stories of the very people who broadcast about national projects, trampolines and 2000 Armats by 2020? Sorry, the credit of trust is exhausted

          Video? What's filmed on them? The Zircon launch frames shown are no different from the Onyx launch.
          Until Santa Fe was called and shown

          They have not yet shown their appearance. And some kind of intelligible confirmation of super-speeds and super-abilities.

          There is nothing secret about this. This is the pride of the nation. They do not show it because they know that so that they do not show it will make it clear that the products do not have the declared performance characteristics.

          All of the known technologies have already been tested in practice around the world, and could not even come close to provide 8M for an anti-ship missile in the dimensions of Onyx.

          No one wants to chase a pseudoscientific blizzard about "new principles" with a clever look either.
    2. +5
      23 August 2021 04: 34
      Rock Paper Scissors.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  2. +1
    23 August 2021 03: 27
    Quote: Author
    Unfortunately, we have nothing at our disposal
    even closely similar.

    belay
    why, unfortunately, there is nowhere to spend money?
    Isn't there a more reasonable investment based on the price-result criterion?
    What specific tasks is the author ready to assign to the AUG from an aircraft carrier, 1-2 missile cruisers and 6-8 destroyers, if it is available?
    just "Schaub was"?laughing
    he spent crazy money on his monstrous AUG, and that the result is an escape from Afghanistan, a mess in his own country.
    1. +3
      23 August 2021 03: 36
      Demonstration of force in a specific area. Restraint. Although I, too, at close range can not understand how this is combined with our doctrine.
      1. -1
        23 August 2021 03: 53
        so what this demonstration translates into - a public debt of 28,6 trillion dollars, 86 thousand dollars each.
        1. +2
          23 August 2021 04: 08
          Will provoke another world war and write it off. They won't even invent anything new
          1. +4
            23 August 2021 04: 33
            the next world war may end with the fact that there will be no one to write offlaughing
            1. -2
              23 August 2021 05: 36
              But why?! It will just take place on our continent and that's it. I will repeat nothing new they will not do.
              1. +5
                23 August 2021 13: 19
                carstorm 11, it is clear that war as a way to write off debts (errors) is a good tool, I just want to say that at the current level of development of weapons, even if the conditional USA (deep state) formalizes a war only on our continent - everyone will suffer, that's why it and world war, it will not work to sit out in rat holes.
        2. +12
          23 August 2021 07: 04
          For God's sake, figure out what this debt is. Japan has twice as much and we would live like this
          1. -3
            23 August 2021 13: 39
            Quote: Sergey Nikiforov
            this debt Japan has twice as much and we would live like this

            belay
            2 times more than anyone's?
            learn the mathematical part if you do not see the difference between the ratio of public debt to GDP in Japan (is 250%) and the absolute size of debt (12,5 trillion dollars)
            1. +2
              23 August 2021 14: 11
              Here - here, and this ratio in the United States still does not reach 100% Learn materiel
              1. -1
                23 August 2021 16: 06
                Quote: Sergey Nikiforov
                and this ratio in the USA still does not reach 100% Learn materiel

                level is clearwassat
                According to the report of the US Treasury on February 18, 2021, the ratio of the US government debt to GDP
                is 129,8%.
                1. 0
                  23 August 2021 16: 46
                  Yes, for God's sake, do not try to catch me on numbers. I just explained to you why, apart from the Treasury, no one really cares about it. By the way, the Russian Federation has also taken this path.
                2. 0
                  23 August 2021 17: 58
                  Imagine that you borrowed for 20-30 years at a certain amount of interest an amount approximately equal to your annual income. Can you be called bankrupt? I think not. You will be quite capable of making monthly payments on this amount and interest, and discomfort from this you will not feel. Here you are approximately "on the fingers" of the mechanism of the work of the external debt of the United States.
              2. +2
                23 August 2021 16: 13
                Quote: Sergey Nikiforov
                Here - here, and this ratio in the United States still does not reach 100% Learn materiel

                Already, as it were, 130% https://usdebtclock.org/, but at least 830% of all are satisfied with this while in the world.
          2. The comment was deleted.
        3. +3
          23 August 2021 11: 33
          The script is ready. As long as there is UST, according to which they borrow from the whole world cheaper than their inflation, nothing will happen. But if the world stops buying below inflation, then UST will no longer be rolled out and they will default. I think this is not a prospect for several years, it is somewhere over the horizon. Watch the Treasury yield, this is the main indicator.
          1. 0
            23 August 2021 21: 47
            Quote: Glagol1
            Watch the Treasury yield, this is the main indicator.

            It will reach 5% and kirdyk will come. hi
        4. +1
          24 August 2021 09: 19
          Quote: Gunter
          so what this demonstration translates into - a public debt of 28,6 trillion dollars, 86 thousand dollars each.

          AND? Live badly huh? Every time they go to bed - "oh, the national debt has tortured, how can it be, oh, there is no way to fall asleep now"
    2. +3
      23 August 2021 04: 36
      In Russia, there is no money for the Su 57, but they want a couple of aircraft carriers, with a set of aircraft and 20 escort ships, it is necessary to collect money on the first channel, maybe enough laughing
      1. +3
        23 August 2021 08: 31
        Quote: Pessimist22
        There is no money for Su 57 in Russia ...

        This is yes ...

        In 1994-2018, assets were withdrawn from Russia, the total value of which can currently exceed $ 1 trillion, experts from Bloomberg Economics calculated.

        On average, up to $ 40 billion per year ... This is equivalent to at least 400 Su-57, ANNUALLY ...
        No money, you say ... Well, well.
    3. +2
      23 August 2021 04: 50
      Quote: Gunter
      why, unfortunately, there is nowhere to spend money?
      isn't there a smarter investment by the criterion price-result?

      Yes, of course there is! We will answer, as always, deadly and asymmetrically. We will invest in luxury yachts of Usmanov, Abramovich and other oligarchs. Eclipse everyone! These are not pensions. There is always money for this!

      Just one question. When the Americans (and the Chinese) will have hypersonic weapons, what kind of asymmetry are we going to invent? Already planned?
      1. -4
        23 August 2021 05: 23
        Quote: Stas157
        ..We invest in
        luxury yachts of Usmanov, Abramovich and others
        oligarchs .....

        belay
        well, if you are planning to invest in the yachts of the Abramovich-Usmanovs, then the problems of "asymmetry" should not be alarming by definition, plan a bunkerwassat
      2. +1
        23 August 2021 05: 51
        Quote: Stas157
        When the Americans (and the Chinese) will have hypersonic weapons, what kind of asymmetry are we going to invent?

        And how will having aircraft carriers help against hypersonic missiles?
        1. -4
          23 August 2021 06: 57
          Quote: Jacket in stock
          And how will having aircraft carriers help against hypersonic missiles?

          They will lure them to themselves Yes
        2. +3
          23 August 2021 20: 17
          Quote: Jacket in stock
          Quote: Stas157
          When the Americans (and the Chinese) will have hypersonic weapons, what kind of asymmetry are we going to invent?


          And how will having aircraft carriers help against hypersonic missiles?

          All urya patriots have a big problem.
          They do not know how to think systematically at all.
          They categorically cannot understand that the world is a collection of different, interrelated conditions, parameters, indicators.
          Asymmetry is complete nonsense!
          Which both many of the war Soviet years and many sofa anaditegs (but with brains) are clearly dispelled as a myth.

          To use long-range hypersonic missiles, you need to have detection and targeting equipment at such a long range.
          That is, we need huge, hundreds of times larger than now, satellite constellations to monitor the sea zone in real time.
          With space radars of enormous power and noise immunity.
          With accompanying satellite data relay systems, huge amounts of data.
          We need supercomputers to handle huge data streams.
          And it turns out that: in order to launch missiles with at least some percentage of probability tending to 100%, all of the above, you need to develop, build, run in, put into production, train, put into service.
          And when you count all the costs for the preparatory process, you will understand that the costs of destroying an aircraft carrier worth $ 15 billion, and if with an order, then $ 25 billion, will be at least comparable.
          And the history of war shows that the cost of an attack is usually three times the cost of defense. If you count in comparable parameters, such as market value.
          That one Kh-22/32 missile could theoretically destroy an aircraft carrier?
          Yes, I could.
          Only in order for one missile to break through, it was necessary to purchase two Tu-22M regiments, with a full ammunition of nuclear missiles, train several generations of pilots, build several airfields and thousands of BAO employees, hundreds of support vehicles (Tu-160 uses 14 different highly specialized cars to prepare for departure) and spend tens and hundreds of millions of liters of kerosene on pilot training.
          And a reasonable person understands that the costs here are actually much more than the cost of an aircraft carrier and its group.

          This is so.
          In order to understand what consistency in thinking is.
          1. +1
            24 August 2021 10: 12
            They do not know how to think systematically at all.
            To use long-range hypersonic missiles, you need to have detection and targeting equipment at such a long range.
            With space radars of enormous power and noise immunity.

            But the trouble is, this is just one of the system solutions!
            And what prevents the creation of a radar capable of detecting an aircraft carrier with a range of 15 km or more from an aircraft flying at an altitude of 20 ... 700 km?
            Only it will not be at all the same radar, not primitives that are discussed in the topics of our "waterfowl", and not an ancient species from the Tu-22.
            Why can an object of three square meters be found at 400 km, while an aircraft carrier with many thousands of squares at 700 km more, outside its air defense zone, is not possible?
            Before answering that this is impossible, understand the fundamental and SYSTEM concept of radar: "Signal Uncertainty Function"!
            What prevents to supplement this aircraft with other aircraft, with RTR systems and "correct" electronic warfare, refuting all these myths about "afar noise immunity"?
            The problem of transferring the control center to another board has long been gone, then launch anti-ship missiles from this board from an even greater range. And at the final stage of its flight, if necessary, issue a one-time correction of the target position, using the radar of the aircraft that carried out the detection.
            All this can be done, of course you need to work in this direction, but this is not your global space monster.
            1. 0
              24 August 2021 11: 56
              Quote: Hexenmeister

              Before answering that this is impossible, understand the fundamental and SYSTEM concept of radar: "Signal Uncertainty Function"!


              I understand that you have all the data in your head that allows you to turn the entire radio industry?
              In your head for a long time already there is a radar with a range of 700 kilometers and beyond, with ideal noise immunity and everything else.
              Who are ready right now to detect ships at a distance of 700 km and fire missiles and give target designation ...
              And you have all this in your head, do I understand correctly? You have such knowledge. once you write about it ...

              Then I'll just ask:
              Why is nothing like this in the world's armies even close?
              Hundreds and thousands of ingenious designers around the world are doing this ..

              But no one has anything like your words.
              And you have it in your head.

              Maybe something should be treated?
              Conservatory?
              1. +2
                24 August 2021 13: 27
                I understand that you have all the data in your head that allows you to turn the entire radio industry?
                This means that you have not figured out the Signal Uncertainty Function. In general, the situation resembles the discussion in the next thread, when, as the greatest achievements, American ultra-short impulses are presented to us, but for some reason no one knows that even in ancient times in the USSR they had not the worst characteristics on the chirp.
                Why is nothing like this in the world's armies even close? Hundreds and thousands of ingenious designers around the world are doing this ..

                Well, they can't yet ...
                I write that this can be done, there is nothing beyond natural in this. Someone lacks brains, someone else has something else, someone does not need it, but it will be done, maybe even the Americans are the first, but I would like it to be here. Although in our country, according to history, for a revolutionary breakthrough, a very serious "blow on the ass" is needed, first of all, to the authorities, and "revolutionary" solutions were immediately found.
                Maybe something should be treated? Conservatory?
                My "conservatory" is based on "classic Soviet" radar education and work experience, but yours needs to be filled and filled.
                PS
                thousands of ingenious designers
                according to Soviet principles, the designers were engaged in "pieces of iron", but according to what principles the radar system will function, what it can do and what not, and with what characteristics, engineers of the corresponding profile were engaged in this smile
          2. +1
            24 August 2021 14: 45
            SovAr238A, I understand that you are well versed in the problems of the Navy and Air Force ...
            Here's a question for you: how in the 70s and 80s of the 20th century, without all the technical means you described, Soviet missile carriers and submarines found and secretly tracked the US AUG?
            1. 0
              24 August 2021 15: 06
              Quote: Perforator
              SovAr238A, I understand that you are well versed in the problems of the Navy and Air Force ...
              Here's a question for you: how in the 70s and 80s of the 20th century, without all the technical means you described, Soviet missile carriers and submarines found and secretly tracked the US AUG?


              Because it was a time of peace.

              And besides, how do you and me and us know that it was "secret"?
              From the fact that the enemy does not make any reaction?
              Well, yes.
              Option 2.
              first - He doesn't know.
              the second - He knows, and keeps the gun at gunpoint. but does not show it, so as not to frighten off.
              Why warn that?


              According to the memoirs of sailors, how many boats do we have that came to the base with damage?
              Dozens of times.
              Because they didn't really know that they were being "led and grazed".
              And then there were collisions.

              But not only found ...
              But they themselves lost. Flitex-82.
              1. +1
                24 August 2021 15: 38
                Quote: SovAr238A
                Because it was a time of peace.


                So what? Peaceful time, but very "cold" at times! And AUG went to sea not for a walk, but for exercises! They also learned to defend themselves from an attack .. And if you are discovered, then there is a great chance of being destroyed.

                Quote: SovAr238A
                And besides, how do you and me and us know that it was "secret"?
                From the fact that the enemy does not make any reaction?

                Just the opposite! Precisely by reaction. There were such cases - they are described in the memoirs. Either the antenna will be lost, and then they will be found on the K-324 propeller, which will suddenly surface in the area of ​​the US Navy's exercises, then the Apollo descent vehicle in Murmansk will be "found" ...

                Quote: SovAr238A
                According to the memoirs of sailors, how many boats do we have that came to the base with damage?
                Dozens of times.

                It was. Just like "them".

                Quote: SovAr238A
                Because they didn't really know that they were being "led and grazed".
                And then there were collisions.

                Why did the collisions happen? Maybe because "they" were blind and deaf, since they could not turn away in advance?
                Or maybe "we" were quicker and more maneuverable and "they" simply did not have time to dodge?
                And collisions most often took place between boats - with surface ones somehow much less.
                1. -1
                  24 August 2021 22: 39
                  Quote: Perforator
                  Quote: SovAr238A
                  Because it was a time of peace.


                  So what? Peaceful time, but very "cold" at times! And AUG went to sea not for a walk, but for exercises! They also learned to defend themselves from an attack .. And if you are discovered, then there is a great chance of being destroyed.

                  Quote: SovAr238A
                  And besides, how do you and me and us know that it was "secret"?
                  From the fact that the enemy does not make any reaction?

                  Just the opposite! Precisely by reaction. There were such cases - they are described in the memoirs. Either the antenna will be lost, and then they will be found on the K-324 propeller, which will suddenly surface in the area of ​​the US Navy's exercises, then the Apollo descent vehicle in Murmansk will be "found" ...

                  Quote: SovAr238A
                  According to the memoirs of sailors, how many boats do we have that came to the base with damage?
                  Dozens of times.

                  It was. Just like "them".

                  Quote: SovAr238A
                  Because they didn't really know that they were being "led and grazed".
                  And then there were collisions.

                  Why did the collisions happen? Maybe because "they" were blind and deaf, since they could not turn away in advance?
                  Or maybe "we" were quicker and more maneuverable and "they" simply did not have time to dodge?
                  And collisions most often took place between boats - with surface ones somehow much less.

                  Only now they beat us mainly on the catch-up courses ...
                  That's the only difference.
        3. -1
          23 August 2021 21: 49
          Quote: Jacket in stock
          And how will having aircraft carriers help against hypersonic missiles?

          The belief that there are no hypersonic missiles will help. wink
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. 0
        23 August 2021 13: 15
        How can you not trust Santa Fe !? Do you have different training manuals?
    4. -6
      23 August 2021 05: 18
      Quote: Gunter
      What specific tasks is the author ready to assign to the AUG from an aircraft carrier, 1-2 missile cruisers and 6-8 destroyers, if it is available?

      Machine gun points - HANA !!!
    5. AUL
      +1
      23 August 2021 05: 57
      Quote: Gunter
      Isn't there a more reasonable investment based on the price-result criterion?

      Green grapes ...
    6. +14
      23 August 2021 10: 16
      Quote: Gunter
      What specific tasks is the author ready to assign to the AUG from an aircraft carrier, 1-2 missile cruisers and 6-8 destroyers, if it is available?

      What is there to think about? In peacetime - "close" some area of ​​the local conflict, so that there is already calmly doing their business, not fearing the tricks of the "partners". In the military - for example, to ensure the reliable deployment of SSBNs. The aircraft carrier, both there and there, acts as a means of reconnaissance and strengthening of air defense.

      Quote: Gunter
      he spent crazy money on his monstrous AUG, and that the result is an escape from Afghanistan, a mess in his own country.

      And what does AUG have to do with it? With the same success it can be argued that both Chechen wars showed the complete failure of our Strategic Missile Forces. Afghanistan is not a coastal state; conventional aviation works there. And even our country has not yet come up with the idea of ​​crushing unrest in our own country by means of strike aviation.
  3. -9
    23 August 2021 05: 09
    Experts saythat such a grouping of aircraft is capable of destroying enemy radars, command posts, tracking and guidance centers and fighters before the enemy can even detect a strike group in the air.
    Interestingly, these naive experts)) laughing live on earth, or hover somewhere in the sky-high offices of Pontogon. Is it because of such specialists)) laughing merikatos being beaten everywhere like a mangy hyena? Although I do not mind at all that this continues - with a face on the battery, on the battery ... laughing
  4. -8
    23 August 2021 06: 56
    Success is success ... That's just against the background of this ...
    https://afirsov.livejournal.com/679057.html
    Briefly - they vandalized, they vandalized with Alice, that they were like the logistics for the F-35 ... Well, after twenty years, they realized that the patient was more likely dead than alive - and oops! Let's start a new system from scratch, One now! For another twenty years of "fine-tuning" and cuts laughing
    Penguin tales never end
  5. +9
    23 August 2021 06: 57
    Plus, the tiltrotor has a longer range than an airplane.

    Yes? I always thought that it was bigger than a helicopter, but smaller than an airplane ...
  6. +8
    23 August 2021 07: 08
    From the article:
    By the way, the E-2D Hawkeye was also created by Grumman on the basis of the C-2A. With all the ensuing consequences.
    As, I remember, Captain Dmitriev liked to say:
    By the way, about the birds. I was at the zoo yesterday, I saw an elephant there. This is such a feed fellow , but not a single feather. laughing
    A novel, honestly, nothing personal, just for the sake of justice. smile Anto Grumman C-2 Greyhound is based on the Northrop Grumman E-2 Hawkeye, and not vice versa.
  7. +7
    23 August 2021 07: 39
    surprise strikes of the F-35C, which will be guided by the target designations of the EA-18G and under the reliable cover of the E-2D
    and here, for the sake of justice and only
    at least reversely rearrange EA18 and E2 here
    I can’t imagine how the EA18 Rab plane is targeting, and the E2 Drlo is covering it (with what?)
    Maybe I'm wrong :-)
    21 century in the yard
    1. +3
      23 August 2021 08: 13
      CU can issue both aircraft, one radar and RER the other only by means of RER (electronic reconnaissance, the main part of the electronic warfare).
      But under the word "cover" it is very unclear what the author had in mind. There is also a FA-18E / F, so they can cover this group.
    2. +4
      23 August 2021 11: 37
      Quote: Dimka75
      I can't imagine how the EA18 Rab plane makes sense

      EMNIP, 30 years ago, the Yankees used a pair of "Hawkeye" - "Prowler" as AWACS. Moreover, the "Prowler", which worked as an RTR aircraft, was almost the main one in this pair, because the Hokaya radar was switched on to radiation at random intervals to reduce its visibility once every few minutes and only for 1 full revolution.
  8. +13
    23 August 2021 08: 01
    Roman, thank you! (Made a small correction in the last sentence of the text).
    This is correct when they show the weapons of a potential adversary, whom some are trying to shower with hats.
    ... on board the aircraft carrier there is a new modification of the CMV-22B "Osprey", the capabilities of which will also be tested in the conditions of the upcoming exercises.

    A very interesting device.
    ... the original trump card of the F-35C in the form of radar stealth and the latest avionics becomes the third component that increases the wing's chances of survival in combat conditions.

    You can treat the "Penguins" scornfully and with mockery, but not a single copy has been shot down by air defense weapons YET, and at least FIVE HUNDRED of such copies have been produced !!!
    https://topwar.ru/168666-korporacija-lockheed-martin-postavila-vvs-ssha-500-j-istrebitel-f-35.html
    There are eleven aircraft carriers in the United States. To destroy each (according to preliminary calculations), at least 3-4 "Zircons" will be required ... Does Russia have 44 ready-to-use products in stock?
    As for the Su-57, let them be put into mass production, but what is their availability?
    Throwing caps (read) and Finland ... I remember China too ... But it is still too early to write off American AUG for scrap.
    ==========
    Some may argue that the Americans fled from Afghanistan ... Well, Afghanistan does not have an outlet to the sea that AUG could enter. The Americans, I remember, flew there even through the territory of Russia (if I'm not mistaken). Does anyone doubt that American troops (naturally as part of a coalition) could (if desired) stop the Taliban offensive? We did not hear about their "victorious offensive" until the withdrawal of troops ... Who knows what it was ... We can only say that Afghanistan has ceased to interest the United States.
    ==========
    It seems that the President of Russia knows more "couch experts". But he answered like this:
    1. +10
      23 August 2021 08: 26
      Quote: ROSS 42
      there were at least FIVE HUNDRED of such copies!

      680+ to be exact.
      Quote: ROSS 42
      To destroy each (according to preliminary calculations), at least 3-4 "Zircons" will be required

      Only if with a nuclear submarine and previously destroying something of the AUG air wing and escort ships, then you need to immobilize the AV, then calmly shoot an immobile aircraft carrier without security and weapons from 500 km.
      Quote: ROSS 42
      Does Russia have 44 ready-to-eat products in stock?
      They are not even accepted for service. What supplies can we talk about? We are waiting for 2023, and then there is either a donkey or a padishah.
      Quote: ROSS 42
      Well, Afghanistan is landlocked

      Why is it needed for the AUG air wing? FA-18E / F fly over Kabul regularly, covering the withdrawal of troops.
      Quote: ROSS 42
      the Americans fled Afghanistan.

      A political and economic failure, the Army has fulfilled its duty in full. Like the Army of the USSR.
      1. +6
        23 August 2021 08: 42
        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        A political and economic failure, the Army has fulfilled its duty in full. Like the Army of the USSR.

        This always happens when the goals are not clear and the actions are not clear. I unsubscribed only because I like the publications of Roman Skomorokhov, whose views I share. In addition, I am reasonably well informed about the opinion of the academic officers who watched the secret (for that time) film about the newest F-16. In addition, there are memories (in the literature and on the Internet) of front-line soldiers about the quality of equipment coming from the United States ... I also remember about copying the Tu-4 from the Boeing B-29 ... I just got tired of idle chatter. Yesterday guys from Bulgaria made me think a little about the simplest things
    2. +6
      23 August 2021 10: 20
      Quote: ROSS 42
      To destroy each (according to preliminary calculations), at least 3-4 "Zircons" will be required ...

      I will clarify, with your permission: at least 3-4 hits "Zircons". It will take much more to launch them.
      1. -6
        23 August 2021 12: 16
        3-4 is enough, because they will come out from under the radio horizon at a distance of 30 km from the AUG at a speed of 3 km / s
        hardware processing and issuance of Aegis target designation for missiles 8 seconds + missile start 2 seconds
        The 1st anti-ship missile will accurately smear 1 destroyer A. Berk of the radar patrol at a distance of 30 km from the AUG
        then the next one to take his place
        Aircraft E-2 Hawkeye AWACS are not a hindrance because Aegis using reconnaissance data from the E-2 can not issue target designation for the missile defense system (no one tries not to talk about this, they are waiting for the E-2D)
        1. +1
          23 August 2021 12: 24
          Quote: Romario_Argo
          3-4 is enough, because they will come out from under the radio horizon at a distance of 30 km from the AUG at a speed of 3 km / s

          Most of the way "Zircon" flies at an altitude of more than 20 km (called from 25 to 35), i.e. it will be seen strongly in advance. Well, flying at low altitude at 3 km / s is a separate story. All our existing SZ anti-ship missiles slow down when moving to a low altitude.

          Quote: Romario_Argo
          Aircraft E-2 Hawkeye AWACS are not a hindrance because Aegis using intelligence data from the E-2 can not issue target designation for missiles (no one tries not to talk about this)

          I don't know where the information comes from, the Americans themselves claim the opposite: Aegis can use data from E-2D to aim missiles at a target that the missile carrier's radar cannot see.
          1. -7
            23 August 2021 12: 26
            "Zircon" flies at an altitude of more than 20 km

            Is it because you have not yet been shown low-altitude launches?
            for 20 km, the task was simply to work out the pairing with Liana
            E-2D

            while they are still waiting - they are not
            1. +6
              23 August 2021 12: 35
              Quote: Romario_Argo
              Is it because you have not yet been shown low-altitude launches?

              Personally, they did not show me the high-altitude trajectory, they only told me))
              And so, it is very doubtful that the "Zircon" will be able to fly for a long time at 10M at low altitude: air resistance and temperature loads will be terrible. The range, in any case, will be greatly reduced.

              Quote: Romario_Argo
              while they are still waiting - they are not

              So there are no "Zircons" yet)) And E-2D has already been put into production.
              1. -4
                23 August 2021 15: 13
                So there are no "Zircons" yet)) And E-2D has already been put into production.

                and how much E-2D was produced? how many have reached the aircraft carriers?
                I don’t know how many zircons are in the experimental batch
                Onyx is full, so they will also be seen on destroyers only 20 km away
                flight time 10 seconds,
                Burks fire off missiles in 8 seconds
                and the dead zone around Berkov 5 km.
                The situation is stalemate anyway
                1. +3
                  23 August 2021 15: 21
                  Quote: Romario_Argo
                  I don’t know how many zircons are in the experimental batch

                  In service - definitely not at all))

                  Quote: Romario_Argo
                  Onyxes are full, so they will also be seen on destroyers only 20 km away
                  flight time 10 seconds

                  20 kilometers "Onyx" will fly in seconds in 30-40 so-and-so. And he will be seen early, nevertheless, taking into account the flight altitude - about 15 km. It will not be easy to launch it along a low-altitude trajectory: you need to get very close to the target.

                  Quote: Romario_Argo
                  and the dead zone around Berkov 5 km.

                  This is with a fright?

                  Quote: Romario_Argo
                  The situation is stalemate anyway

                  Poor Americans)) "Basalts" survived, "Granites" survived, but "Onyxes" put them in check and checkmate. In absentia))
                  1. -2
                    23 August 2021 15: 25
                    In service - definitely not at all))

                    How do you know - this infa is classified
                    And he will be seen early, nevertheless, taking into account the flight altitude - about 15 km.

                    You are confusing it with the RPN 30N6 from the S-400, where the elevation angle is -4 degrees, Spike does not have this
                    Spike does not see low-flying at all, below 60 meters and further 15 km.
                    Dead call around Berkov 5 km for his SAM
                    Poor Americans)) "Basalts" survived, "Granites" survived, but "Onyxes"

                    have never shot in reality at the Burkes either with Basalts or Granites
                    .
                    for that, the Air Defense Cruiser Ticonderoga looks great when their own Tomahawk makes holes in the superstructure
                    1. +4
                      23 August 2021 15: 39
                      Quote: Romario_Argo
                      How do you know - this infa is classified

                      To begin with, his trials are still underway. There was no official adoption. Well that is it can be assumed that the GDP deceived everyone, and we have thousands of these "Zircons" already deployed, but I can't believe something))

                      Quote: Romario_Argo
                      Spike does not see low-flying at all, below 60 meters and further 15 km.

                      I do not know what you call "Spike" in this context, I would be grateful for a prooflink. And then the Americans do not know that, it turns out, they do not know how to shoot down low-flying targets.

                      Quote: Romario_Argo
                      have never shot in reality at the Burkes either with Basalts or Granites

                      As well as "Onyxes". Everything is at the level of speculation, yes.
                      1. -5
                        23 August 2021 16: 03
                        There was no official adoption. "Zircons" great thousands have already been deployed

                        US Navy 68 Berks, 22 Ticks, 11 AB, 14 UDC = 115
                        in constant readiness
                        6 AB, 10 UDC, 45 Berkov, 15 Tiki = 76
                        who where:
                        against SF - 1 AB, 4 Em, 2 Tiki = 7 = enough and 1 SSGN pr.855 - 32 anti-ship missiles
                        against the Pacific Fleet - 2 AB, 4 UDC, 16 Em, 2 Tiki = 24
                        = it is more difficult: Tu-22M3 12 units x 2 X-32 = 24, Project 949 SSGN with Granites 2 x 24 = 48
                        SRM, Black Sea Fleet - 1 AB, 4 UDC, 12 Em, 2 Tiki = 19
                        = Tu-22M3 12 units x 2 X-32 = 24
                        minus 50
                        surviving AUG in the Indian Ocean and UDC in Cuba
                        32 "Zircon" is enough
                        we and the X-32 with Granites will send half of the US Navy to the bottom
                        And then the Americans do not know that, it turns out, they do not know how to shoot down low-flying targets.

                        on Berks for this there are 3 illumination radars, on Tiki 4
                      2. +4
                        23 August 2021 16: 16
                        Quote: Romario_Argo
                        against SF - 1 AB, 4 Em, 2 Tiki = 7 = enough and 1 SSGN pr.855 - 32 anti-ship missiles
                        against the Pacific Fleet - 2 AB, 4 UDC, 16 Em, 2 Tiki = 24
                        = it is more difficult: Tu-22M3 12 units x 2 X-32 = 24, Project 949 SSGN with Granites 2 x 24 = 48

                        The calculations are interesting. In them, however, I see several assumptions:
                        1. Americans do not transfer their AUG between different theaters of operation, climb strictly in the proportions you specified.
                        2. "1 SSGN pr.885" will definitely get to the launch line: there will be no mines, enemy "Virginia" and "Losi" will not intercept it, etc.
                        3. Tu-22M3 learned to start up X-32 (in fact - only Tu-22M3M, which is now alone).
                        I don’t remember the already bored questions of intelligence and target designation.

                        Quote: Romario_Argo
                        on Berks for this there are 3 illumination radars, on Tiki 4

                        Yeah, they stand and quite highlight themselves. And all sorts of SM-6 and ESSM Block II do not even need illumination at the expense of ARGSN.
                  2. -1
                    24 August 2021 16: 51
                    And here is the contract for 3M22, again without quantity
                    https://topwar.ru/186322-cirkon-kinzhal-i-kalibr-minoborony-podpisalo-kontrakty-na-postavku-giperzvukovyh-i-krylatyh-raket.html
                    The Ministry of Defense has tested a unique automated control system (ACS) for aviation and ships. During exercises in real time at a distance of hundreds of kilometers, aircraft Tu-142 transmitted information about the conditional enemy to the attack ships and launched a strike. At the same time, the ACS itself identified the most important targets and decided how to destroy them. The novelty is primarily intended for carriers of the latest Zircon hypersonic missiles. But it can also work with missiles of the previous generation - "Yakhont", "Vulcan" and "Caliber" ... According to the given coordinates, conditional electronic missile launches were performed by the Northern Fleet cruiser "Marshal Ustinov", the frigate "Admiral of the Fleet Kasatonov", nuclear submarine boat "Eagle" .. https://iz.ru/1210911/anton-lavrov-anna-cherepanova/tcelevoi-ukazatel-tcirkony-poluchili-sverkhdalnee-navedenie
                    1. 0
                      24 August 2021 17: 27
                      Quote: Romario_Argo
                      And here is the contract for 3M22, again without quantity

                      "Promising not to mean getting married"))

                      Quote: Romario_Argo
                      During the exercises in real time, at a distance of hundreds of kilometers, Tu-142 aircraft transmitted information about the conditional enemy to the strike ships and launched a strike.

                      Control center from an anti-submarine aircraft? During exercises, of course, this happens. In a real fight for the "carcass" it would be a suicide mission.
                      1. 0
                        24 August 2021 17: 53
                        In a real fight for the "carcass" it would be a suicide mission.

                        looking against whom.
                        and ordered 3M22
                        something in between
                        2 ash x 32 x 2 BK, 2 fr. 22350 x 16 x 2 BK, 1 TARK pr. 1144 x 80 x 2 BK
                        = from 172 to 352 PKR
                        Sotku exactly (!)
                      2. +1
                        24 August 2021 18: 01
                        Quote: Romario_Argo
                        looking against whom.

                        Well, if "Zirconami" - against someone big. There is no surveillance radar on the Tu-142, the target can only be searched for with the keen eyes of the crew. The ranges are appropriate. Evaluate the chances of seeing the AUG during your lifetime.

                        Quote: Romario_Argo
                        and ordered 3M22
                        ...
                        Sotku exactly (!)

                        We haven't adopted it yet, but are we already stamping it in hundreds? Following in the footsteps of the F-35? ))
                        Well, either there the deadline for the execution of the contract is by the mid-2030s (in Russian realities - "maybe someday"). In any case, while there is no rocket, there is nothing to talk about.
    3. +1
      24 August 2021 06: 00
      Quote: ROSS 42
      Some might argue that the Americans fled Afghanistan ...

      Well, you can say that the USSR "fled" from Afghanistan. They did not run away, but left, having lost the meaning of being there. That's all. Both the USSR and the USA failed the idea of ​​creating a regime there "at will."
  9. -16
    23 August 2021 08: 21
    2021 year. Russia is armed with the whole range of hypersonic weapons of land, air, sea and underwater basing.

    USA. Unsuccessfully trying to launch a blank from the ancient mammoth B-52.

    This is all you need to know about the development of military-industrial complex technologies in these countries.
    1. +7
      23 August 2021 08: 49
      Quote: Runner2022
      This is all you need to know about the development of military-industrial complex technologies in these countries.

      Let's correct and speak honestly:
      2021 year. Russia has DEVELOPMENT on arms the whole range of hypersonic weapons of land, air, sea and underwater basing.
      ==========
      USA. Unsuccessfully trying to DEVELOP HYPERSONIC WEAPONS launch a blank from an ancient as a mammoth B-52.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. -11
        23 August 2021 08: 51
        Already on alert. And the pentagon knows about it
        1. +5
          23 August 2021 10: 23
          Quote: Runner2022
          Already on alert. And the pentagon knows about it

          On combat duty now only "Dagger" - a product with specific features. Whether it is a hypersonic weapon or not is a moot point. In the end, the coveted threshold in 5M and some missiles (ours and them) overcome, but for some reason they are not called hypersonic.
          The rest of the products are at the development / testing stage, with no intelligible details.
          1. -11
            23 August 2021 10: 36
            Yes, really?) ,, Vanguard ,, 28 Machs, divisions on duty
            1. +8
              23 August 2021 10: 39
              Quote: Runner2022
              Yes, really?) ,, Vanguard ,, 28 Machs, divisions on duty

              This one, too, is a victim of marketing to a certain extent: all ICBMs "give out" 20+ swings, that is, at about this speed, their BBs enter the atmosphere.
              The main interest is precisely the cruise missiles flying on hypersound, but no one has them in service yet.
              1. -9
                23 August 2021 10: 41
                All of you are victims of marketing, and Pentagon analysts grab their heads laughing laughing
                1. +11
                  23 August 2021 10: 48
                  Listen to our media, so poor Pentagon analysts have been in strictly three states for 15 years now: panic, rage, "grabbing their heads")))
                  In fact, it is true, for some reason they did not give out their concern with the same "Dagger": they discussed it and forgot. They also reacted somewhat sluggishly to Avangard - well, it seems like they finally took up the development of a replacement for Minutemans, but it's not a fact that it is connected with Avangard.
                  1. -12
                    23 August 2021 10: 55
                    I will say more, Biden was forced to sign START-3 precisely because Russia had a combat-ready hypersonic weapon. A-ordinary analytics, it is not necessary to watch the media, it is enough to google the materiel and analyze the actions of the enemy laughing
                    1. +2
                      23 August 2021 20: 34
                      Quote: Runner2022
                      I will say more, Biden was forced to sign START-3 precisely because Russia had a combat-ready hypersonic weapon. A-ordinary analytics, it is not necessary to watch the media, it is enough to google the materiel and analyze the actions of the enemy laughing

                      Suddenly.
                      And why did Putin sign it then?
                      And the State Duma?
                      And the Federation Council?
                      If we had a superweapon?
                  2. +12
                    23 August 2021 11: 01
                    Oh, don’t waste your time on this troll. He has already changed the 4th account, so that I can get on with it. In his opinion, the F-35 has ceased to be produced ...
                    The first regiment (6 missiles with 6 warheads) of the Vanguard is to take up combat duty only this year. The second regiment (12 missiles in total) is to enter service by 2027.
                    Quote: Kalmar
                    but it is not a fact that it is connected with "Vanguard"

                    Yes, just an update in view of the physical old age of the current missiles. Considering that the carrier of the UR-100N vanguard, missiles in the mid-70s and instead of 6 warheads, it now carries 1 (12 instead of 72 warheads per 2 regiments) - this is not just an increase, but a weakening of the Strategic Missile Forces.
                    1. -12
                      23 August 2021 11: 21
                      Even the 5th mine!) It's not my fault that Russophobic slogans here are considered for ,, information, and materiel - for the manifestation of trolls laughing

                      And by the way, yes, the production of the F-35 has been completely stopped, all purchases have been stopped, primarily by the Pentagon itself. laughing wink

                      Ps since 2019 ,, Vanguard, on duty lol
              2. 0
                24 August 2021 14: 59
                Quote: Kalmar
                all ICBMs "issue" 20+ swings, i.e. at about this speed, their BBs enter the atmosphere.

                quoting the "classic", I can add that not only all ICBMs issue 20+ Machs, few people can also maneuver in the atmosphere ...
        2. +1
          23 August 2021 20: 27
          Quote: Runner2022
          Already on alert. And the pentagon knows about it

          Where is your typical quote about the Su-57?
          1. -1
            23 August 2021 22: 56
            I'll download it as a theme! Until I regret poor Russophobic brains laughing winked
    2. -1
      24 August 2021 06: 03
      Quote: Runner2022
      2021 year. Russia is armed with the whole range of hypersonic weapons of land, air, sea and underwater basing.

      USA. Unsuccessfully trying to launch a blank from the ancient mammoth B-52.

      This is all you need to know about the development of military-industrial complex technologies in these countries.

      Ha-ha ... Here the Americans will just do what they undertake, and in Russia there will be another Su-57 and an Armata tank, with always unfinished versions ...
      1. 0
        24 August 2021 08: 08
        Approx.
        2021 year. Russia has a full range of hypersonic land, air, sea and submarine-based weapons on its BATTLE DESK.

        USA. Unsuccessfully trying to launch a blank from the ancient mammoth B-52.

        This is all you need to know about the development of military-industrial complex technologies in these countries.
  10. -11
    23 August 2021 08: 57
    Very brave slogans about the F35, our drying over the Baltic showed how invisible they are!
    1. 0
      23 August 2021 20: 36
      Quote: Sergey39
      Very brave slogans about the F35, our drying over the Baltic showed how invisible they are!

      Again.
      Read the news correctly.
      This F-35 flew to our transporter, which was accompanied by Sushka.
      Arrived, looked and flew away.
      And it was not Sushka who flew in to look at the F-35 ...

      That there are two big differences.
  11. Lew
    -11
    23 August 2021 11: 11
    The aircraft carrier is a large can, which is very convenient to shoot at.
    1. +11
      23 August 2021 11: 40
      Quote: Lew
      The aircraft carrier is a large can, which is very convenient to shoot at.

      Ah, the grapes are green. ©
      When a country is unable to build something larger than a frigate, the only thing left for the patriots is to get into the "not really necessary" position.
      1. -9
        23 August 2021 11: 59
        What do you think 1 or 2 ,, Dagger ,, will be required to sink this trough?)
        1. +7
          23 August 2021 12: 25
          Quote: Runner2022
          What do you think 1 or 2 ,, Dagger ,, will be required to sink this trough?)

          With timely detection, accurate target designation, the presence of trained pilots and equipment, the suppression of the long-range air defense of the AUG, for a guaranteed defeat of the AB, an air regiment of "Daggers" carriers will be required somewhere.
          In the USSR, for the same purpose, two SSGNs of Project 949, two SSGNs of Project 670 and two Mrap were required.
          1. -7
            23 August 2021 12: 47
            I beg you, 5 rockets maximum lol
            1. +2
              23 August 2021 15: 44
              Quote: Runner2022
              5 rockets maximum

              What rockets?
            2. 0
              24 August 2021 06: 05
              Quote: Runner2022
              I beg you, 5 rockets maximum

              True, these missiles must somehow be "brought" to the aircraft carrier. Well, nothing, they will "agree" ... There is money for oil ...
      2. Lew
        0
        26 August 2021 16: 21
        we need a strategy and plans ... and not reasoning, we need an aircraft carrier, or not.
  12. +3
    23 August 2021 11: 57
    "—Which will be guided by the target designations of the EA-18G and under the reliable cover of the E-2D." and here it is as if nobody was confused?
  13. -3
    23 August 2021 12: 35
    Wow, there is resistance for the American master! laughing
    1. +2
      23 August 2021 20: 41
      Quote: Angry Troll
      Wow, there is resistance for the American master! laughing

      Resistance is not for the master, but against the shapkozakidatelstva.
      Patriotism is the right thing, but for urya-patriotism you need to shoot even in peacetime.
      For from the urya-patriots and shapkozakidatel, there will only be huge losses in the first days of the war.
      There were examples of this both in Chechnya and in Afghanistan, during the years of the beginning of WWII, WWI, the Finnish War, under Tsushima.
      Always, urya-patriots in the early days of the war led to colossal losses.
      Therefore, are you shrieking?
      A bullet in the forehead!
      For the enemy of the people!
      1. 0
        24 August 2021 01: 01
        No, uncle, a bullet in the forehead will be the first to come to all sorts of jackals, even before the war.
      2. +1
        24 August 2021 08: 06
        Believe me, the main thing is that no one in the Ministry of Defense is engaged in hacking. And before the wars, no one did this. You'd better read the story.

        Naturally, this is normal if a person admires the achievements of his homeland, why not?)
    2. +1
      24 August 2021 15: 04
      Aha! I also read it straight! And with such zeal ... lol
    3. 0
      24 August 2021 15: 04
      Aha! I also read it straight! And with such zeal ...
  14. -5
    23 August 2021 13: 17
    To read like this, the Americans have no equal opponents, but they are fleeing from Afghanistan, they are preparing from Iraq ...................
    1. 0
      16 October 2021 10: 44
      The Americans have no equal opponents, they fled from Afghanistan after 20 years of sticking out there (what the hell? Defending the southern underbelly of Russia with their blood from the Taliban). They finally realized that their sticking out there was absurd from the point of view of US interests and the troops were withdrawn (the withdrawal method was extremely moronic, well, so Biden himself has long been in insanity) and now the Kremlin is more than concerned about this fact ...
      1. -1
        18 October 2021 08: 31
        Quote: Outsider
        The Americans have no equal opponents, they fled from Afghanistan after 20 years of sticking there

        Sticking out? How did they stick out strangely?
        “It was not an easy mission. The price we paid was 2461 US military killed
        Read more at RBC:
        https://www.rbc.ru/society/31/08/2021/612d503a9a794721d1b54f0a

        The Pentagon has just admitted this, but there are still PMCs, there are still casualties among NATO allies
        1. 0
          18 October 2021 13: 57
          Sticking out? How did they stick out strangely?

          - It is more than strange, from the point of view of Russian state propaganda, that the United States is the main and most dangerous enemy, who only thinks how to screw up Russia.
          If the United States really wanted to "screw up" Russia, then 20 years ago they would not have sent their troops into Afghanistan and kept the Taliban there, hiding in holes for 20 years, but would have helped him - with weapons, ammunition, equipment, money, etc. And today all the former Soviet republics of Central Asia would be under the control of the Taliban... And they would have reached the multi-thousand-kilometer border with Russia, which is practically not covered.
          This is if the United States only thought, "how to screw up Russia.". lol
  15. -1
    23 August 2021 15: 43
    To concretize our impossibility to destroy even 1 (one) US AUG, I would like to remind you that there is no Zircon in service with the RF Armed Forces, what it is, most experts do not know, and no one knows whether Zircon will appear in service at all. So far, we all only know that several tests of the Zircon were carried out from a launch range of no more than 500 km, and it seems that they hit their targets.
    1. -1
      23 August 2021 19: 34
      Yeah, there is no Crimean bridge too laughing
      1. -1
        24 August 2021 06: 08
        Quote: Runner2022
        Yeah, there is no Crimean bridge too

        This is ... But this is the maximum there is ... I propose to "fill up" the Americans with the Crimean bridge. This is a real weapon in stock ...
        1. 0
          24 August 2021 08: 00
          You tell this to Biden who was forced to sign START-3 laughing wink
  16. 0
    23 August 2021 23: 46
    Yes, everything is cool in terms of colonial conquests and extermination of the natives. And for us or the Chinese, it's just a big, sedentary target. Don't worry that we don't have it.
    1. 0
      24 August 2021 08: 29
      Absolutely right
  17. 0
    24 August 2021 08: 43
    Americans can count whatever they want as long as the military-industrial complex gets trillions of dollars for useless junk.
  18. 0
    24 August 2021 13: 46
    Quote: AVM
    On the other hand, on 8M Zircon will give not weak Doppler illumination, no stealth will help (and there is also plasma on the body).

    Let's count a little: Mach 8 is 8 * 330 m / s = 2,64 km / s. A tank shell, sub-caliber, can fly about 2 km / sec. Where does the plasma come from on Mach 8? Yes, the heating is not funny, but not plasma!
    1. 0
      16 October 2021 10: 39
      - At an altitude of 30 km, where hypersonic aircraft should fly, temperature T = 226 degrees, the speed of sound there is 20.046√T =301 m / s.
      https://docs.cntd.ru/document/1200009588
      At this speed, the kinetic heating temperature will be 3881°C:
      http://old.as-club.ru/kurs3/aero/html/kurs_567_0.html
      At the same time, a certain part of air molecules (5-7 %%) are already dissociating and a plasma cocoon does arise, though not of the same intensity as when spaceships enter the atmosphere ... smile
      1. 0
        29 October 2021 11: 04
        I agree with you. Fully. You have confirmed by calculations and the obtained figures that "heating is significant, there is practically no plasma." Thanks!
  19. -2
    24 August 2021 18: 53
    Quote: onstar9
    Quote: ROSS 42
    Some might argue that the Americans fled Afghanistan ...

    Well, we can say that the USSR "fled" from Afghanistan. They did not run away, but left, having lost the meaning of being there. That's all. Both the USSR and the USA failed the idea of ​​creating a regime there "at will."
    Dmitry Nekrasov:
    Let's start with civilian casualties. It is understood that accurate data
    it cannot be, but even estimates of losses are indicative. Estimates of losses among
    civilian population for 10 years of the Soviet presence vary in the range
    between 500 thousand and 2 million people. The most common figure is 1 million
    dead civilians.
    All estimates of civilian casualties over 20 years of American occupation
    measured in units or tens of thousands: people. Quite biased
    human rights activists talk about a range of 40-50 thousand people in just 20 years.
    That is, the lowest level for assessing civilian losses from the actions of the USSR
    more than 10 times the highest estimates of civilian casualties
    from the actions of the United States. And this despite the fact that the USSR entered where peace reigned,
    and the United States goes to a place where a civil war has been going on for more than 20 years.
    Indicative fact: during the Soviet occupation, the population of Afghanistan
    decreased by almost 20%, and during the reign of the Americans increased by 50%.
    And this fluctuation in the population is largely due to the fact that when the Russians came,
    millions of Afghans fled the country, and when the Soviets withdrew, some
    emigrants returned. With the Americans it was exactly the opposite: when the Americans
    came, Afghans did not emigrate en masse, emigration began after leaving
    Americans. (By the way, I don't remember something about the crowds of Afghans fleeing to the USSR
    on the armor of the 40th Army).
    Already from the data above, it is quite obvious which of the two invaders bombed more
    and with whom the Afghans liked to live better, but let's go through the objects
    infrastructure.
    Soviet statistics, as usual, are in trouble, but even in campaign texts about
    the great help of the Soviet people, phrases such as "more
    than 140 objects of economic and social infrastructure "built
    The Soviet Union for the Afghan people. Trying to figure it out - you see
    from a serious pair of bridges, a pair of tunnels, one hydroelectric power station (built before
    invasion and not free), one university ... and that's all. Including schools, hospitals
    and other things, it is clear that we are talking at most about a few hundred non-military objects.
    Americans (and other developed countries) only built schools in Afghanistan
    13 thousand in 20 years. The number of school students during this time increased from 0,8 million to 6,5 million
    people, and literacy increased from 8% to 43%. Higher educational institutions, instead of
    one built by the USSR, the Americans had built 31 by 2012. Total order
    more than 50 universities built under the Americans. Their number has reached more than 60 by 2020.
    The number of university students in 2001 was 10 thousand, in 2015 - 300 thousand people.
    I did not find other data, but only USAID built more than 2015 clinics by 600 alone,
    and then there were other developed countries and international organizations and five more years,
    therefore it will be good for 1000 medical facilities. Infant mortality
    decreased significantly, life expectancy increased by nine years.
    Artesian wells were drilled in thousands of villages (and this is really the most important
    problem for Afghanistan), a human water supply system was built in large cities,
    the percentage of the population with access to clean water rose from 16% to 89%.
    City halls have been built from scratch in dozens, if not hundreds of settlements
    and the police. The rather modern building of the Kabul airport was seen by everyone in the footage.
    escapes, they built about a dozen. Etc.
    1. 0
      25 August 2021 09: 59
      Kushka (Anatoly) Now imagine that all these 20 years of the US presence in Afghanistan, the Taliban are provided with practically unlimited assistance from a country like, say, the former USSR. Weapons, money, instructors, treatment ... The weapon is not the end of the 80s, but quite modern and sometimes even superior in characteristics. Communications, air defense systems ... Afghans would be instructed and trained in the use of such systems ...
      Plus mass propaganda among the civilian population that the United States will take everything away, destroy the mosques ... And yes, one more thing: there would be no access to the "cheerful" crops and to the crops harvested from them ... None of the USA and others ...
      Do you think peaceful construction on the same scale would be going on there?
      1. -2
        25 August 2021 11: 56
        I fully understand that the United States has been there for 20 years, and has been building social infrastructure (you have noticed that the author does not write anything about industrial infrastructure, but it would have been necessary) NOT FOR BEAUTIFUL AFGHAN EYES.
        It is another matter that the countries that really border on Afghanistan and should be interested accordingly, have taken a detached position all this time, including with regard to what you are pointing to. But now for these countries, such "savings" will turn out dearly. With the euphoria they have caught, no one will be able to "come to an agreement" with the Taliban, if someone hoped for it. So it will come out, as in that saying - not by washing, so by rolling - take the money out of the purse.
        1. 0
          25 August 2021 14: 58
          Quote: Kushka
          It is another matter that the countries that really border on Afghanistan and should be interested accordingly, have taken a detached position all this time, including with regard to what you are pointing to.

          And who of those that border were ready to deal with the problems of Afghanistan, when the United States ruled there with might and main? Pakistan? India? Tajikistan? Who are they? Am I missing someone? Maybe there is someone more or less influential and, most importantly, independent of the will of the "hegemon"?

          Quote: Kushka
          the author does not write anything about industrial infrastructure

          This is not surprising! Which industry? There are completely different interests ... The whole social sphere is a penny for the United States. In exchange for a more or less loyal attitude of the civilian population. So to speak, "cookies" .. If the population were in the same mood as in the 80s towards the soldiers of the USSR, then there would be the same picture - a full-scale guerrilla war ... There would be no time for schools and universities ...
  20. +2
    24 August 2021 21: 05
    "Trump card of the F-35C in the form of radar stealth" - this is for whom? For Yemeni Houthis or Somalia? Who do they want to nightmare in the Middle East? Iran?
  21. 0
    25 August 2021 12: 51
    > enemy reconnaissance assets can be disabled by surprise attacks from the F-35C, which will be guided by the target designations of the E-2D and under the reliable cover of the EA-18G

    And why did the respected author decide that the F-35 will be invisible to our radars and will be able to deliver "sudden" strikes?
    1. 0
      16 October 2021 10: 25
      - Kate, The F-35 are not invisible for Russian radars, the whole question is, At what range can Russian radars detect the F-35 ?!
      And if this range of detection (and destruction) is less than the range of dropping small-diameter bombs from the F-35 (110 km from a height of 11 km), then the Russian air defense system is guaranteed to try:

  22. -1
    29 August 2021 15: 03
    Dear. You, not understanding against whom and what the Americans are going to train IT, start - we do not even have a close friend of this, and so on.
    Let's start with the first one - against whom and what IT is being done and trained against. Against the CHINESE. Because the Chinese are starting to squeeze the United States and its allies out of the ATP. That's where they (the United States) with Keith and will be measured against the letters.
    In a hypothetical war with the Russian Federation, gee.) Try to outline how and where such a group can unfold. The Black Sea is definitely a fail (you can't even get this shit there - everything is in full view). Through the north? )) There, the aircraft-carrying groups cannot work stupidly, "the climate is not understood for the enemies." Remains the eastern coast of the Russian Federation Which is why no one needs - because there is practically nothing there. But even with the approach of enemy squadrons from there with their air wing - who said that our air defense will calmly look at this pornography? ) The problem of the United States is that their missiles (in general of all types) are many times worse. And our Defense Ministry can straight from its native shores, showing the states fingers, toes and other things, calmly sink the same calibers, balls and bastions of their squadron, shoot down their planes and missiles with the S-400 at distant approaches. And then there are the Su22M3 strategists with the anti-ship Kh-32, and no one will sail on "ordinary" Kh-31P aircraft.
    Therefore - everything is buzzing with us, do not worry.
  23. +1
    7 October 2021 08: 58
    Quote: SovAr238A
    Quote: Babay Atasovich
    Quote: Santa Fe
    Megatons of energy

    Hiroshima-Nagasaki will confirm Yes

    Nonsense.
    The laws of conservation of energy really work
    The energies that were spent on ore mining, the production of "commercial" uranium or plutonium, the production of a blasting blasting agent, the shell and body of the SpetsBCh are fully comparable to the energy yield in a nuclear explosion.

    Do not fire so hard that you are not thought of as a completely illiterate creature ...

    - Of course NO, "literate". Energy output from a nuclear explosion (and even more so - with thermonuclear), as well as the energy received in nuclear power plants is immeasurably higher than the costs for the entire cycle of their production.
    And no "law of conservation of energy is violated in this case, Losers!"
    Oh, these "victims of the exam" ... am
    .........................
    A Cro-Magnon who has collected a large armful of brushwood in the forest for the hearth of his cave receives much more energy than he spent on collecting brushwood and cutting several sparks to light a fire. But this energy did not come from "nowhere" - just when the twigs are burned, a chemical reaction takes place that releases the energy of the sun, primarily that was spent by nature in the growth of this tree ..... And the law of conservation of energy is not violated.
    .........................
    The same is true for the nuclear fission reaction of uranium - there is simply released the energy expended in the explosion of that supernova, in which this uranium was created... The energy was in uranium-235 billion years in a conserved form, smoothly spent on natural decay, and during an explosion it is released in 1 / 10000th of a second ...
    ........................
    In a hydrogen explosion caused by the reaction of fusion of helium from deuterium, tritium, lithium (necessarily initiated by a nuclear detonator), the energy conservation law is also not violated, simply merging, the nuclei of deuterium and tritium release more energy than they received in a nuclear explosion that triggered the reaction... This stems from the properties of matter, which has absorbed the energy of the Big Bang, according to the very formula E = mc² - in the same way as energy is released when burning dry branches ...
    1. 0
      15 October 2021 17: 58
      As you know, it is possible to build a carrier-based aircraft of the E-2D type for early detection of enemy aircraft using radar, while it itself is just as well detected, I think that if we solve the inverse problem, then it is possible to build an unobtrusive aircraft for early detection of AUG in a passive way, an aircraft carrier it does not need to be specially illuminated, it reflects all radio waves that hit its body from anywhere, including from space, and in general it is a large contrasting object, it is clearly visible through a telescope in good weather and from the moon.
      1. 0
        16 October 2021 01: 42
        - It's fantasy ... lol
  24. 0
    2 November 2021 20: 15
    All the power of the AUG is reset to zero with Daggers .. Onyxes and soon Zircons with a range of up to 1000 km. MKRTs Liana detects the huge carcass of the aircraft carrier and transmits the target data to .. let's say the frigate Admiral Gorshkov is located 1000 km from the AUG. Everything. The data was received and the launch of Zircon ... or all 16 and all AUG into the furnace ... in hell ... will remain there right.
    1. 0
      4 November 2021 23: 00
      - All "Daggers", "Onyxes" and "Zircons" are reset to zero ABM AUG ...

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