Military Review

If the ash is common for the Virginia sequoia?

52

Western experts continue to compare Russian and American submarines. This is understandable, since the US Navy has no equal in the world so far, and when a fleet equal to it in capabilities can appear is a question for a very long time.


But this is over water. But under water - this is a completely different alignment. The surface fleet is still vulnerable to attacks from under the water, and most vulnerable in comparison with attacks from the ground or air. Technological progress has created truly invulnerable monsters capable of attacking from under the water and going to even greater depths.

Accordingly, the only thing that surface forces around the world should fear is a sudden and fatal blow from under the water. And in this regard, all Western experts can scoff as much as they want, criticizing the Russian surface fleet, consisting of forty-year-old Soviet-built ships and new small-class missile ships, but submarine forces will have to be reckoned with.

In the West, they note that Russia has practically stopped attempts to create a large-tonnage surface fleet and all attempts to restore the naval forces are mainly reduced to the creation of new submarines and the modernization of old ones.


This is a somewhat controversial opinion, but it has a right to exist.

And new types of Russian nuclear-powered ships cannot but provoke a response from the United States. New and modern submarines are a definite threat. And the threat must be responded to. Hence the constant work on the creation of their submarines in the United States.

Everything is logical. Since the days of the USSR, when the Soviet Navy had a larger numerical strength, but was still inferior to the American one, the emphasis was placed on the power of the submarine fleet. And as much as American aircraft carriers were a symbol of the projection of power to any region of the world, so the Soviet submarine fleet threatened the very existence of the United States.

Today, in the same way, according to Western experts, Russia is focusing on its submarine forces, which, unlike surface ones, can gain an advantage over the American, not only in quantitative, but also in a qualitative sense.

There is a lot of talk about Borei in the West, and they talk with rapture. Well, they like to talk there about the Apocalypse, and "Borey-A", that is, Project 955A, is exactly the apparatus for destroying, if not the whole world, then part of it. For example, North America.


In second place is "Ash".


Not such a terrible machine, but also quite enough to keep half the world at bay. Moreover, the Yasen is a separate class, a submarine armed with cruise missiles. And accordingly, there is something to compare.

Naturally, the model for comparison is the new US Navy submarine "Virginia". So to speak, "our response to Russia" from America.


The Ash class was originally developed in the late 1980s to replace the aging Akula-class nuclear submarines back in the USSR. However, the American "Virginia" began to be created at about the same time.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, work on the boat continued and the result was a fairly reworked boat, more perfect. The size of the boat has been reduced, although the Ash is still larger than the Virginia.

Both boats were made taking into account almost a century of experience in the struggle of submariners for stealth and low noise, but both types have compromise solutions, since the boats were created for several different operations.

Virginia is compact. The budget did not allow making a large boat. The underwater displacement is about 7900 tons. This does not allow the use of the latest developments in the field of sound insulation. The screw of the new generation, the "Archimedes screw", solves the problem a little, but at the expense of the speed.

"Ash" is larger, 13800 tons of underwater displacement. It seems easier to spot, but the traditional two-hull layout makes the boat less noisy. Since "Ash" - weapon offensive, aimed at surface ships, then they were able to squeeze the maximum speed out of it, not particularly worrying about camouflage.

Many in the West are strained by the fact that "Ash" is faster and quieter than "Virginia". But this is a fact. The quiet advantage is small, but it is there.

If we talk about strike weapons (and how not to talk about it), the "Ash" looks like a kind of killer monster.


Not that the "Russian threat", but in fact: 10 torpedo tubes against 4 at Virginia can form a more significant salvo, despite the fact that Russian torpedo tubes can easily fire cruise missiles.

The problem with American boats is that since the 60s of the last century, Americans have placed torpedo tubes on the sides of what is commonly called a wheelhouse. Hence the problems with launching torpedoes at speeds above 13 knots.

Rockets. Virginia owns 12 Tomahawks. This is very weighty.


The "Ash" has fewer cells, only 8, but they can charge from 32 "Onyx" or "Zircon" to 40 "Caliber". The question "who is cooler" is open.

The Americans, sacrificing torpedo tubes, can place a hydroacoustic locator of large diameter and high sensitivity in the nose.

So Ash in terms of weapons looks much more deadly than Virginia. Yes, the next American boats of the 5th series (Block V) will receive the VPM system - Virginia Payload Module, which will consist of four launchers for seven missiles each. Then the total salvo of "Axes" will increase to 40.

But we have already repeatedly compared Tomahawk and Caliber, so this is not an advantage, this is an attempt to catch up with the enemy who has gone ahead.

The mobility of boats is also not in favor of the Americans. "Ash" is faster, and much faster. Its speed under water in different sources varies from 31 to 35 knots. And even at the minimum, this is pretty much higher than the 26 knots of the Virginia.

Thermal power of the S9G reactor at Virginia is 150 MW, OK-650V at Yasen - about 200. Shaft power is about 30 MW at Virginia and 50 MW at Yasen. So much for the difference. Plus a propeller for high speeds on a Russian boat.

Ash also dives deeper. 400 meters of working depth versus 250 for an American boat. And the maximum depth to which you can go in case of emergency, and in general - 600 meters versus 300. The working depth of immersion is the one at which the submarine can stay indefinitely, keeping all its capabilities. The ultimate allows for a short-term safe stay with a limited number of characteristics.

It is clear that the submarine hunter and the ship for special operations - "Virginia" do not need high speed. But "Ash", which has to drive surface connections, speed is important.

In general, the difference in capabilities and characteristics is visible to the naked eye. And here "Ash" is clearly stronger than "Virginia" in almost all characteristics.


This is not to say that the Americans did not try to build something like that: quiet, fast, deep-sea and toothy in terms of weapons. And the result was Sea Wolf, a boat that terrified many in the United States. At a price. After that, they decided not to build such a monster. Expensive even for the USA.

Ash is stronger. He is capable of fighting anyone, even aircraft carrier formations. And Virginia must hunt Ash. Quietly and imperceptibly approach the range of a volley and ...

Plus, the American boat can be used for various special operations, for which it has the entire set of equipment. But this is not the topic of today's conversation.

And the most important thing. "Ash" is planned to be built on 9. "Virginia" - 66.

It is clear here that with such a number of boats, the US Navy can easily neutralize the advantage of the Ash trees, which will not be produced in such a large series.


There is such a confrontation as between a detachment of landsknechts and mounted knights.

Of course, no one in the United States is going to sit idly by. The Virginia Block V modification is more than the boats of the previous versions by 25 meters in length, and by 2 tons in displacement due to an insert with missile containers, which can increase the number of launchers from 12 to 40.

Contracts? To hell with the Russians coming!


It is difficult to live in the West when there is a constant threat from Russian submarines. But interesting. And there is something to talk about. And how to justify the need to build new underwater hunters at a rate of 7 to 1.

Respect, potential ...
Author:
52 comments
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  1. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 24 August 2021 05: 22
    +2
    To hell with the treaties ... from 12 to 40 launchers ... the Russians are coming ... crying cool american gentlemen play poker.
    1. Snail N9
      Snail N9 24 August 2021 09: 33
      +2
      There were several articles about the fact that now submarines are easily determined by the displacement of the water medium during its movement, using special radars. Therefore, a large body will have much more disturbances in the water environment, and therefore, a large boat has a much higher chance of being detected by such means, for example, from PLO aircraft. So, that the large "Ash" in this case loses much to the smaller "Virginia". And the detection of the submarine is, - consider, her death.
      1. Proxima
        Proxima 24 August 2021 14: 42
        0
        Again comparing hippo and crocodile! These submarines have different targets.... Ash is designed to combat AUG and therefore such a high speed to chase after them and therefore such impact power. But "Virginia" designed just to detect and destroy submarines, including such as "Ash". Therefore, such a powerful radar to the detriment of striking power, as they say, is enough for one TABLET. And a small loss in speed is not so critical, because the enemy does not suspect that he has been detected. By the way, regarding the detection, I am certainly not an expert, but common sense tells me that if the Virginia is geared up for this, then she undoubtedly has a better chance of detecting the Ash than our submarine. Who is in the subject, correct me please! hi
        1. ares1988
          ares1988 24 August 2021 17: 36
          +2
          Please tell us more about the powerful radar station on the 885th project.
      2. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 24 August 2021 16: 49
        +7
        Quote: Snail N9
        a large body will have much more disturbances in the water environment ... the large "Ash" in this case loses much to the smaller "Virginia".

        When a pike chases a small thing near the surface, it is visible on a wave (Kelvin wedge). And at the depth you will not notice it. You need to dive deeper to hide the Kelvin effect and so that the heat trail does not float up for a longer time. And if it did surface, it would be less contrasting. Now everyone is about 200m scampering, (mostly up to 150m), and when it smells fried, everything will go deeper, they will crawl under the layer of the jump, and the ear will be stuck into the PZK ...
        So it's worth seeing who dives deeper and hears further in the Infra range ...
        Therefore, it is not a fact that the Virgin is more adapted to war. At least 885M Yankees fear and fear rightly.
        1. Andrey1903
          Andrey1903 3 November 2021 21: 42
          -1
          Straight pissing from fear of two ash trees, one of them which was built for 20 years))))) nonsense !!!!
      3. JackTheRipper
        JackTheRipper 24 August 2021 23: 07
        0
        This is when the boat is on the surface, when moving under water there are no such displacements of water masses.
  2. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 24 August 2021 06: 00
    +7
    Fuck treaties

    What are the contracts?
    What are the agreements about?
    Whom are contracts with whom?
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 24 August 2021 06: 04
      -10
      Under the START III treaty, I think so ... the number of launchers for missiles with nuclear warheads should not be exceeded under the treaty.
      1. ares1988
        ares1988 24 August 2021 06: 53
        +21
        For ICBMs. What does KR have to do with it? In general, the level of the article is, of course, below the plinth.
  3. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 24 August 2021 06: 01
    +11
    What is the article about?
    1. Russ
      Russ 24 August 2021 06: 20
      +5
      Float rules! ....
    2. Dimka75
      Dimka75 24 August 2021 11: 52
      +8
      "The West says, the West enthusiastically (!) Celebrate, according to Western experts,"
      and tede and tepe
      no source
      "So I can" © write my own sentiments
  4. Yuri V.A
    Yuri V.A 24 August 2021 06: 18
    +14
    This is when, all other things being equal, the double-hull boat became less noisy than the single-hull?
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 24 August 2021 16: 59
      +4
      Quote: Yuri V.A
      This is when, all other things being equal, the double-hull boat became less noisy than the single-hull?

      This is when they began to introduce a two-stage damping system, and PC and LK were covered with sound insulation on both sides. "Drums of Iron" ended with 641 projects. Another thing is that water carriers are bad in terms of energy and speed. There's nothing you can do about it - physics.
      1. Yuri V.A
        Yuri V.A 25 August 2021 05: 38
        +3
        Stop the car, the factors you cited are a little from another acoustic opera. Depreciation applies to equipment and zonal units inside a robust hull, that is, it can equally apply to monohull boats and reduces the noise of another group of the acoustic field. The additional insulation of the lightweight hull will reduce noise, but is unlikely to correct the greater value of hydrodynamic noise flowing around the double hull.
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 25 August 2021 14: 54
          +2
          Quote: Yuri V.A
          the greater value of the hydrodynamic noise of the flow around the double hull.
          The stream flows around only the outer contour, that is, the light hull, which the Krylovites "licked" and tested repeatedly at different speeds ... There are model and field tests of ships under construction. The spindle is even easier.
          The oncoming flow is laminated. All openings in modern boats are closed by flaps, so there is practically no hydrodynamic noise from them at such speeds. And so that the construct does not climb into discretes through the lines of the shaft, for example, the blades are made damping from a composite ... So, not everything is linear. There are squiggles too.
          1. Yuri V.A
            Yuri V.A 25 August 2021 15: 06
            +1
            Laminar, so laminar, gentlemen take their word for it.
            1. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa 25 August 2021 15: 07
              +2
              Quote: Yuri V.A
              we take our gentlemen's word for it.

              I also believe in the Krylovites ... Yes
  5. Errr
    Errr 24 August 2021 06: 20
    +19
    From the article:
    The problem with American boats is that since the 60s of the last century, Americans have placed torpedo tubes on the sides of what is commonly called a wheelhouse. Hence the problems with launching torpedoes at speeds above 13 knots.
    what Does "Ash" have this problem?
    The torpedo tubes are exactly the same on the sides as the "Virginia".
    More from the article:
    The Americans, sacrificing torpedo tubes, can place a hydroacoustic locator of large diameter and high sensitivity in the nose.
    what And the "Ash" also has an FAQ in the bow? Not the main spherical antenna GAK, hour? Not? smile
    1. dzvero
      dzvero 24 August 2021 09: 42
      +12
      And the "Ash" also has an FAQ in the bow?

      Retractable pole mine, model 1862, modified for a nuclear charge. Method of application - the submarine silently overtakes AB by 35 knots, puts a mine and quickly leaves smile
  6. Wedmak
    Wedmak 24 August 2021 06: 21
    +9
    The problem with American boats is that since the 60s of the last century, Americans have placed torpedo tubes on the sides of what is commonly called a wheelhouse. Hence the problems with launching torpedoes at speeds above 13 knots.

    So on the Yasen, the TA are located on the sides.
    The Americans, sacrificing torpedo tubes, can place a hydroacoustic locator of large diameter and high sensitivity in the nose.

    Ash has a huge "Amphora" in the same place.
    And it should be noted that Project Ash-M is slightly smaller than the head Ash.
    1. mmaxx
      mmaxx 24 August 2021 09: 02
      +10
      The American layout won out long ago. The author, apparently, does not know about this.
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. Bez 310
    Bez 310 24 August 2021 08: 01
    +15
    I will say it mildly - not everything is as the author writes, but to put it bluntly, then everything is not so.
    1. Sanguinius
      Sanguinius 25 August 2021 13: 01
      0
      Welcome hi but it is possible in more detail, very interesting, simply intrigued)
      1. Bez 310
        Bez 310 25 August 2021 13: 55
        +2
        Quote: Sanguinius
        can you give more details

        Sorry, but everyone can find everything on the Internet.
        In general, the author "distorts", does not say anything, "freely interprets the facts," and everything is in favor of our submarines, which are practically nonexistent. Two submarines "Ash" are "nothing" compared to twenty "Virginias".
  9. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  10. Sergei 777
    Sergei 777 24 August 2021 08: 50
    -3
    Well, 9 boats are contracted plans. Obviously there will be more bookmarks.
  11. mmaxx
    mmaxx 24 August 2021 08: 59
    +4
    Our boats are shock. And theirs are anti-submarine. That's all. They do not need anti-ship missiles and the like.
    And here for the first time I hear that the two-body circuit is quieter. Maybe I'm wrong, but in the world, we are the only two-hulled boats that make. And they became single-hull precisely because of the lower noise level. In perestroika times, our submariners talked about about.
    Does anyone know about this part? For a long time there is no normal information on the submarine.
    1. Terran ghost
      Terran ghost 24 August 2021 13: 28
      +1
      Our boats are shock. And theirs are anti-submarine. That's all.

      Well, American multipurpose submarines actually carry a set of strike missile weapons. Up to the four Ohio SSBNs converted into cruise missile carriers.
      1. mmaxx
        mmaxx 24 August 2021 14: 25
        +1
        This refers to the main task.
        "Ohio" is simply redesigned here for a different method of striking the shore.
        And no one has a surface fleet as a target for American submarines.
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 24 August 2021 18: 37
          +2
          Quote: mmaxx
          And no one has a surface fleet as a target for American submarines.

          I advise you to take a closer look at the PLA Navy. Whales are even very wow for NK. In terms of submarine forces, they are seriously lagging behind. But their NDT, we must admit the obvious, is at the level.
          1. LiSiCyn
            LiSiCyn 24 August 2021 20: 07
            0
            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            I advise you to take a closer look at the PLA Navy.

            Greetings, zem! hi
            According to your advice wink, extreme time I look closely ... And not only to the PLA Navy. How long do you think it will take for China to feel confident in its abilities ..?
            IMHO: To me, it all reminds me of the 30s and Japan's preparation for war.
  12. Sergey39
    Sergey39 24 August 2021 09: 12
    +3
    Somehow, the author writes strangely that Ash-two-hull and TA are in the bow?
    1. Asad
      Asad 24 August 2021 14: 16
      +3
      It's like in the last article that the F 22 is a type of trash.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. LiSiCyn
        LiSiCyn 24 August 2021 20: 14
        +3
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        So he has a corresponding surname - SKOMOROKHOV.
        What else do you want to hear seriously from him !?

        Such conclusions are very dangerous ... wink
        As far as I know, from my own experience, criticism of this "author" is unacceptable and carries risks of punishment from the administration of the HE.
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 25 August 2021 14: 58
          +1
          Quote: LiSiCyn
          criticism of this "author" is unacceptable and carries the risks of punishment from the administration of the HE.

          Thank you for the warning ... but NAKARKAL! Yes
          1. LiSiCyn
            LiSiCyn 25 August 2021 17: 07
            +1
            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            but NAKARKAL!

            Ay-yay-yay said ...? what
            How much Ay-yay-yay is left? wink
            1. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa 25 August 2021 19: 24
              +2
              Ay-yay-yay said. already THREE times. Oh-oh-oh-t, yes. recourse
              1. LiSiCyn
                LiSiCyn 25 August 2021 21: 59
                +1
                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                Oh-oh-oh-t, yes.

                These are the current orders ...
                On the other hand, you can persuade Shpakovsky or Samsonov, for example, without consequences. laughing
                Pluralism ... wassat
  13. Couchexpert
    Couchexpert 24 August 2021 13: 13
    0
    Quote: Article
    Western experts continue to compare Russian and American submarines. This is understandable, since the US Navy has no equal in the world so far, and when a fleet equal to it in capabilities can appear is a question for a very long time.

    But this is over water. But under water ...

    The same eggs only "in profile". This is short. The topic can be closed. All this was discussed already at VO 100500 times with figures, facts, opinions and people much more immersed in the topic.
  14. Gust
    Gust 24 August 2021 13: 25
    +2
    It is difficult to say by what parameters which steamer is quieter. In addition to the averaged noise, there is noise per sample, and the distribution strongly depends on the speed. And now there is no direct dependence on the presence of a second building and the noise level. The mass and volume of the boat is less, the target force is less, all other things being equal, the physical fields are less.
    As far as radar detection is concerned, this is also not a panacea. It works poorly for great depths and / or shallow passages, depending on the roughness of the sea. Therefore, SPs are sought by a combination of methods, and not just one.
    Regarding the range of torpedoes and their telecontrol, yes, there are problems, the forum has repeatedly written about them, they have already decided something, they are trying to do something. But this is one of the possible situations when mutual detection occurred in a narrow range of distances and courses. Closer - the presence of TU is not so important, even further - you need to use rocket torpedoes. In any case, the main enemy of the submarine is aviation. Like a tank - a helicopter with an ATGM.
  15. Terran ghost
    Terran ghost 24 August 2021 13: 25
    +4
    The Ash class was originally developed in the late 1980s to replace the aging Akula-class nuclear submarines back in the USSR.

    How was the Project 885 Yasen multipurpose nuclear submarine developed to replace the Project 941 Akula SSBN?
    1. Yaroslav Zhigulin
      Yaroslav Zhigulin 24 August 2021 13: 41
      +9
      I think it meant pike b
      She is called sharks in the NATO classification.

      In general, Roman was asked many times not to write on naval topics because a person is not in the subject
      1. avg avg
        avg avg 25 August 2021 04: 04
        -1
        In general, Roman was asked many times not to write on naval topics because a person is not in the subject

        He just wants to eat!
  16. exo
    exo 24 August 2021 15: 02
    +2
    As far as I know: double-hulled boats are more tenacious, but more noisy.
    If we focus on submarine forces, it would be nice to build near-zone ASW ships and minesweepers to support deployment at sea. And anti-submarine aircraft, for the same purposes.
  17. Adagka
    Adagka 24 August 2021 17: 55
    +1
    it's not even agitation, but some kind of parallel reality ...
    all these one and a half ash trees with boreas will not even be able to deploy, if hypothetically it comes to this.
    about shooting ammunition directly from the pier and other unscientific fiction, you can not write.
    although, judging by the comments, piously believing zomboyaschiku (like we can repeat .... do not tell our Iskander ....) is still complete.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 24 August 2021 18: 47
      +1
      Quote: Adagka
      all these one and a half ash trees with boreas cannot even unfold,

      And the forces of military service and combat duty have you also deleted from the register of the living !?
      And why are you still not in the General Staff, but on the VO website "are genius"? lol
  18. merkava-2bet
    merkava-2bet 25 August 2021 02: 10
    0
    This photo has been circulating on the Internet for many years, and only on this site at least twice I have met such tales, which is ridiculous, but in fact it is a sump of decommissioned submarines / nuclear submarines, a third of them are diesel men, and this refers to the power of the fleet, I still don’t understood, following the thoughts from the article?
    1. agond
      agond 25 August 2021 19: 48
      -1
      Quote "Ash" is larger, 13800 tons of underwater displacement. It seems easier to spot, but the traditional two-hull layout makes the boat less noisy.
      Where did the author take this information from?
      for reference, the double-hull design has always been, is and will be more noisy
  19. K298rtm
    K298rtm 25 August 2021 23: 27
    +1
    An excellent article by a respected author (let's not find fault with "some inaccuracies").
    This article (with appropriate translation into the language of "partners") can be especially useful for lobbyists of the US Navy in Congress. But this is my purely private opinion.
  20. Ivanushka Ivanov
    Ivanushka Ivanov 12 October 2021 22: 47
    0
    Not a bad article in the style of NI, the author unobtrusively brings the reader to the thought: good, but not enough. Which, in general, is true. And far from transparently hints "well, at least 30 pieces" ... Yes, of course, Ash is a really cool thing. If 600m is the limit, then at 500m it may well act quite confidently. Probably. And 500m is everything, black boxing, mascara light, no one will ever find her there until she herself finds what she needs ...
  21. Andrey1903
    Andrey1903 3 November 2021 21: 46
    0
    An article written on a jerk!