"Russian analogues of Chengdu": The Chinese media comment on the initiative of the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation to build large cities in Siberia

The initiative of Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, who headed the list of the United Russia party in the elections to the State Duma of the Russian Federation, to create large cities in Siberia is being actively discussed not only in our country, but also abroad. Shoigu is also responding to this proposal in China, which has a long border with Russia in the “Siberian” and “Far Eastern” sections.

Recall that the Minister of Defense proposed to create several scientific and technical centers in Siberia - in new cities with a population of 300 thousand to 1 million people. According to the Russian Defense Minister, there may be 3-5 such cities.

The Chinese press, commenting on Sergei Shoigu's statements, note that the Russian defense minister "intends to create several Russian analogues of Chengdu in Siberia." The Chinese city of Chengdu is considered the urbanization center of modern times. It is a city with a rapidly growing number of inhabitants (today more than 20 million) and an actively developing industry, including a military one. For example, in Chengdu there is an industrial park, a large aerospace production. The fifth generation J-20 fighter was developed there, and work is underway in the field of civil aircraft construction. Chengdu has also become one of the centers of the global automotive industry. More than 800 thousand cars are produced annually at its enterprises. It also produces products from the computer industry, microelectronics, etc.

In China, they point out that Sergei Shoigu's proposal might look reasonable if there were no scientific and technological centers in Siberia now. But they are. An example is the science city of Novosibirsk, military industry enterprises in the Far East, including Komsomolsk-on-Amur, Ulan-Ude, etc.

Sohu notes that Russia itself is reacting with a fair amount of skepticism to the RF proposal. So, as an example, comments are given, which indicate that the initiative of the Minister of Defense is a pre-election move, and that it is possible to focus on the intensive development of those cities that already exist in Siberia and that need investment.

Comments of Chinese users in the PRC media are also presented:

The best way to "revive" Siberia is to invest in its development: in agriculture, tourism, and industry.

Of course, for the development of Siberia, Russia will need more funds than for the development of the Crimea.

Russia is traditionally a European country, but without the development of the Asian part of the unity and security in the country there may not be. The Russians need to take this into account. It seems that the Minister of Defense is putting the main emphasis on this.

Comments

[paul3390]

I have no idea where Kozhugetich is going to take the crowds of new Siberians. There is only one option - to totally clean up Moscow with forced expulsion. There you can go and find 10 million. There is nowhere else to take more people. Well - or populate Asians out of habit ..

However - if you move the capital to Siberia, perhaps the people themselves will reach out. The question is actually long overdue. Only the question of finance remains - is it going to be a pittance? Really - have decided to finally dispossess the oligarchs? Something is hard to believe .. Bourgeois brown eyes will not peck out.

[t-12]

totally clean up Moscow with forced expulsion

Why forced? Introduce a special "Moscow-Petersburg" tax. And to subsidize Siberian cities at the expense of this tax (construction of infrastructure, lifting for migrants). And people will voluntarily flock from Moscow and St. Petersburg.

[paul3390]

And Peter for what? To us, such hordes for freebies, as in the capital, do not bring them down .. Basically - those who love the city in advance and dream of moving. Again - there are not so many plankton .. There are no extra people here, well, the maximum - a million can probably be squeezed out, and even then it is unlikely. Most - from here the hell will leave, in any case and for any money. For example, I do not change to any other. The city is so specific ..

[dorz]

Russia itself also reacts with a fair amount of skepticism to the RF proposal.

Russia is shrinking by 1 million people a year, at such a rate the Chinese will create miracle cities in the near future and ...

[Butchcassidy]

Where did the information come from?

[dorz]

Statistics January-April 2021 population decline of more than 300 thousand people.

Source: https://tass.ru/obschestvo/11572163

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: dorz

Russia is shrinking by 1 million people a year,
Statistics January-April 2021 population decline of more than 300 thousand people.

Here's what I found (according to information from open sources).
2015 - 146 267 288
2016 - 146 544 710
2017-146 804 372
2018 - 146 880 432
2019-146 780 720
2020-146 748 590
2021-146 171 015

[dorz]

Naturally, this means the decline (death / migration) of the "indigenous" inhabitants of the country.

At the same time, in three months of 2021, about 160 thousand people became citizens of the Russian Federation ... Source ibid.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: dorz

Naturally, this means the decline (death / migration) of the "indigenous" inhabitants of the country.

So a million who are diminishing annually, specifically Russians or Russians?

At the same time, in three months of 2021, about 160 thousand people became citizens of the Russian Federation.

Well, not a single Russian of them? At most ten people?

[Sergej1972]

A significant part of them are former residents of Ukraine, plus residents of the LPR.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: dorz

Russia is shrinking by 1 million people a year, at such a rate the Chinese will create miracle cities in the near future and ...

Which, apparently, the Chinese themselves will build, we have no prerequisites for this yet.

[Stas157]

You are right.

The Chinese media comment on the initiative of the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation on the construction of large cities in Siberia

More prolific and successful Chinese will populate Siberia than the Tsar of a country with an endangered poor population.

[paul3390]

Siberia has surrendered to the Chinese? Here is shchaz - they from the coast of the warm sea with a tropical climate will rush to move into our realities .. They cannot be driven out to Inner Mongolia despite all efforts, and you - to Siberia ..

[Stas157]

Quote: paul3390

and in figs Siberia surrendered to the Chinese ??

That’s the only thing that saves you! Fortunately.

[Flooding]

Quote: Stas157

That’s the only thing that saves you! Fortunately.

You are looking for the cause in the investigation.
The opposite is true.
This (the climatic features of the territories) just allowed our ancestors to assemble the largest country in the world in terms of area.
Despite the enormous difficulties associated with the development process.

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Flood

You are looking for the cause in the investigation.

The people fled from the tsarist power away from the central regions of Ingushetia, so afraid of it that they ran to California

Despite the enormous difficulties associated with the development process.

Well, after the 17th Siberia and the Far East were filled with prisoners and "Komsomol members" ...
Recently the Federal Penitentiary Service of the Russian Federation has already come out with an initiative of "voluntary" use of prisoners' labor for the good of the Motherland, our Motherland is big, for everyone, according to the results of work 2x2 meters, there is a place ...

[Flooding]

Sorry, I can't figure out where you are joking, and where you are serious.

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Flood

Sorry, I can't figure out where you are joking, and where you are serious.

Yes, try ... google to help ... or banned, I'll help you ...

Voluntary and "happy" labor of prisoners. Reflection on the statements of the head of the Federal Penitentiary Service of the Russian Federation last week

https://situazion.info/2021/05/24/добровольный-и-счастливый-труд-заклю/

The head of the Federal Penitentiary Service, Alexander Kalashnikov, suggested using prisoners more actively instead of labor migrants in Russia. He stressed that "it will not be a GULAG" - large companies and even heads of regions are showing interest in such a workforce. Thus, the Russian economy can receive an additional 188 thousand workers. The initiative was supported by the Ombudsman for Human Rights in Russia Tatyana Moskalkova and the head of the HRC Valery Fadeev. Business representatives confirm the need for working hands, but they doubt that the convicts will be highly motivated to work.

https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4818553

[Flooding]

Quote: Lara Croft

Yes, try ... google to help ... or banned, I'll help you ...

I think I’m starting to figure out the intricacies of your logic.
I then, out of the simplicity of my soul, tried to remember how Yermak fled from the tsar.
everything turned out to be a little trickier.

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Flood

I then, out of the simplicity of my soul, tried to remember how Yermak fled from the tsar. It turned out to be a little more tricky.

I kind of wrote about something similar in my commentary, it was necessary, of course, to write about the Cossack people who Ermak was and about the "Stolypin" cars, well, I think you will remember for a longer time, incl. which they did not know ...
By the way, here's an article about Ermak ...
https://topwar.ru/31453-kto-zhe-ty-ermak-alenin.html
I consider it impossible to communicate with you further.

understand the intricacies of your logic

since for me personally it will be counterproductive ...

[Flooding]

Quote: Lara Croft

I consider it impossible to communicate with you further.

I dare not delay
especially since you yourself offered me your company
go in peace

[Flooding]

Quote: Lara Croft

Our homeland is big, for everyone, according to the results of work 2x2 meters, there is a place ...

what a bad taste

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: paul3390

They cannot be driven out to Inner Mongolia despite all efforts,

Well, in general, the population of the northern provinces of China is 20% more than the entire population of the Russian Federation, despite the fact that the area is 7 times smaller. And some of them quite compete in density with the Moscow region.
If anything will be a real obstacle, it will be the beginning of the demographic crisis in China. So serious that ours against his background ... An annoying trifle. No more.

[paul3390]

The northern ones are those that are closer to the sea. But Xinjiang and Inner Mongolia are empty. The entire west by their standards is extremely sparsely populated. And - they are not going to move in. Well, the Chinese do not like places with a sharply continental climate! This is not theirs. It's like moving us to tropical Africa - of course it's cool for a couple of months, and then you will howl with nostalgia for birches and snowdrifts for a bald head ..

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: paul3390

But Xinjiang and Inner Mongolia are empty.

Um ... 50 million in total. More than 1/3 of the population of the Russian Federation ... In terms of population density, the SUAO overlaps our Northwestern Federal District, and the VM, at all, is very close to the Volga Federal District. Only 2 federal districts, Central and Southern, confidently win over SUAO and VM. Plus, don't forget one more factor. SUAO is almost entirely mountains, deserts and semi-deserts. VM is a little better. but just that a little. The average precipitation rate in VM is about 1/3 of that in Moscow. And in the SUAO - a record of 250 mm, against the average, for MSC 750. And there is no mass settlement of the MSK and VM, not because it is cold there. It's just deserts, with all that it implies.

Quote: paul3390

Well, the Chinese do not like places with a sharply continental climate!

Jirin. Although the climate is considered monsoon, the only difference from MSC is that there is no precipitation in winter. Density ... More than 150 people per km. The Chinese do not care for continentality. They don't like deserts

[paul3390]

The Chinese do not care for continentality.

Why did they almost never cross the Amur? Although - with powerful dynasties, Qin, Han, Tang could easily have taken Siberia up to Chukotka? But no - for some reason they were not drawn to those lands. Yes, they tried to control the Silk Road and Central Asia. They went to the south. And to the north - no ..

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: paul3390

Why did they almost never cross the Amur?

We can say that we practically did not cross the Urals.

Quote: paul3390

Although - with powerful dynasties, Qin, Han, Tang could easily have taken Siberia up to Chukotka?

RI was able to take Paris, with Sasha the first and Napoleon, and Chukotka, too, did not manage to raise Just like us, they did not see the point of driving millions of immigrants. And yasak, like us, collected for ourselves. And trade with the aborigines, like us, was. And the resources that they managed to find, and considered valuable, were quite pumping for themselves. We just kicked the Chinese collectors out of there. Due to those superiority, and not better adaptability to the climate

Quote: paul3390

Yes, they tried to control the Silk Road and Central Asia. They went to the south. And to the north - no ..

Replace the Silk Road with Constantinople, and get an accurate description of the RI policy. Which never says that Russians cannot stand the continental climate.

[paul3390]

We just kicked the Chinese collectors out of there.

Not Chinese, but Manchu. Here they are - they used to go there. Ethnically, the Chinese dynasties did not even look north. It was not interesting for them there - it was cold and there was nothing to take. Now, little has changed.

Well, you give - it's one thing to take Paris with Constantinople, another - a couple of Evenk villages with plagues!

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: paul3390

Ethnically, the Chinese dynasties did not even look north. It was not interesting for them there - it was cold and there was nothing to take.

Hmm ... But I don't remember any "ethnically Russian rulers" here. If not Ukrainian, then German, if not German, then Georgian. And how did this affect the inability of Russians to the continental climate?

[paul3390]

Do not confuse the nationality of the rulers and the ruling stratum .. Have we, for example, ever had an army and bureaucracy consisted of only Georgians or Germans?

[Drago]

But it didn’t feel like it, because in those days it didn’t represent any
economic interest. Well, who needs cobalt, for example, in those days? That's right, no one ..

[Svarog]

Quote: paul3390

Siberia has surrendered to the Chinese?

I gave up even as I gave up .. then yesterday I drove a military doctor to the airport .. he also served in the Far East, and now he serves in Siberia .. and so, he says that there are more and more Chinese in Siberia ..

They cannot be driven out to Inner Mongolia despite all efforts, and you - to Siberia ..

And what should they do in Mongolia? There and so all of them.

[ViacheslavS]

If you give them away for free, of course the Chinese would take it, but most likely strategically Siberia is far from the first place in their interests / ambitions, and it is clear from the density of China's population, well, they have internal migration

[Grits]

When they say that the Chinese dream of capturing the Far East and Siberia, the majority of people do not imagine that for the Chinese the northern provinces along the Amur and Ussuri are somewhat akin to our Chukotka or Taimyr. It seems that there is land, but no one really wants to go there.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Stas157

More prolific and successful Chinese will populate Siberia than the Tsar of a country with an endangered poor population.

Of course, they will populate them, for this purpose, as if on purpose (or maybe not "as if") the government creates all the prerequisites.
PySy. Many people continue to think that China is our friend and ally. This is a fatal mistake! Since the days of Khrushchev, the CPC has not been our friend, this is on condition that Nikitushka was considered a nominal communist, but there is absolutely nothing in common with the current Russian Federation and its government. China considers the Russian Federation solely from the point of view of a territorial resource base, and so far some kind of market.

[Sergej1972]

Which are prolific? In the PRC, the birth rate is lower than ours.

[Petro_tut]

Like the mortality rate

[bar]

Quote: Stas157

Rather, prolific and prosperous Chinese will populate Siberia

The Communist Party has long weaned the Chinese away from fertility and severely disrupted the demographic balance of bap / men. And "prosperity" has hammered another nail into her. Now the survivors of the demographic reforms of Chinese women have other interests besides fertility - business, career, that's all ...

[Svarog]

Quote: dorz

Russia itself also reacts with a fair amount of skepticism to the RF proposal.

Russia is shrinking by 1 million people a year, at such a rate the Chinese will create miracle cities in the near future and ...

That's right .. where to get people from .. just to replace .. but judging by my city, the replacement is proceeding at an accelerated pace .. there are so many Chinese that I live in the Far East .. Tajiks, Uzbeks .. in general, "the most Russian nationalist", is on the "right" national road ..
Here is an interesting video ..

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

You call Solovyov-Kisilev's propaganda utter nonsense, lies and so on, but exactly the same propaganda, the same utter nonsense and outright lies, only on the other hand, you unconditionally believe simply because it corresponds to your inner state.
What kind of objectivity is there. You can juggle and pull for persuasiveness anything that the aforementioned personalities are doing. But about one thing they say "propaganda", and about another - exactly the same - the truth.
Funny.

[Svarog]

Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich

What kind of objectivity is there. You can juggle and pull for persuasiveness anything that the aforementioned personalities are doing. But about one thing they say "propaganda", and about another - exactly the same - the truth.
Funny.

To figure it out .. where is funny, and where is the truth .. give you advice .. always look at the result. The result of the current government is visible and understandable to everyone. It is negative.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: Svarog

The result of the current government is visible and understandable to everyone. It is negative.

And who reports these results to you? It is unlikely that Solovyov and Kiselyov.
And in what vein the results are voiced by Delyagin and Bobylev, there is no doubt.
Or do you draw conclusions about the deplorable state of Russia based on the fact that in the courtyard of the house where you live, the garbage dump is not taken out as often as you would like?

[Svarog]

Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich

Or do you draw conclusions about the deplorable state of Russia on the basis of

You trolls have all the dew of God .. the population is decreasing at an unprecedented rate, that year minus half a million, for three months of this year already three hundred thousand .. impoverishment has been going on for 7 years in a row .. and so on .. but these facts, for some reason, do not reach to your consciousness .. well, they never reach .. and they are the main indicators of the activities of those in power ..
and the fact that the facts do not reach you is just an indicator that you are working here for a pittance.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

the population is shrinking at an unprecedented rate,

2015 - 146 267 288
2016 - 146 544 710
2017-146 804 372
2018 - 146 880 432
2019-146 780 720
2020-146 748 590
2021-146 171 015

But to this, of course, you will answer that the authorities are hiding, the Russians are dying out, they are being replaced by migrants. You can only trust Delyagin and Bobylev.
Well, how could you resist not calling someone who disagrees with your opinion a troll? After all, this is what Soviet education and upbringing dictates to you, right, hehe?

[Svarog]

You gave the numbers .. but did you study them yourself? They testify to the decline in the population of Russia ... and from 15-18 years .. inertia ... well, it did not immediately begin to deteriorate ... everyone believed that a bright tomorrow would come and oil would rise in price again ... and the guarantor guaranteed it .. and people believed him .. But even then I said that our economy is a dud .. that apart from minerals it produces nothing, and if it chooses, then the share is scanty and clearly insufficient to be considered not a raw material appendage .. well, if we add here the scale of the export of money, corruption and other "achievements", it becomes obvious that the noodles will drain from the ears .. and the refrigerator will win .. which is happening now.

Well, how could you resist not calling someone who disagrees with your opinion a troll?

This is not my opinion, these are facts .. and numbers. And I consider you a troll, not because you disagree with my opinion, but because you always agree with the opinion of EP ..

[Vadim237]

"But even then I said that our economy is a waste ... that apart from minerals it produces nothing, and if it arbitrarily, then the share is scanty and clearly insufficient to be considered not a raw material appendage .." it was as it was sucked out of your own finger so it will remain. Finish your insanity at face value to issue.

[your1970]

Quote: Svarog

Tajiks, Uzbeks

There are no Uzbeks in the RF now - citizens of Uzbekistan... Practically not ... Economically, after 2014, it became unprofitable for them to work here, after the jump in dollar rates. They left almost completely clean already ..

Those that are - ethnic Uzbeks with Russian citizenship ...

And yet, what about you as our Kazakhs for example (whose grandfathers and fathers always lived in Orenburg) from the Kazakhs of Kazakhstan ??
All in importedf write down ??
And the Buryats - to the Kirghiz?

[Hypertension]

Quote: dorz

Russia shrinks by 1 million people a year

Reduced by 1 million and added by 687 thousand

According to Rosstat, in the first half of 2021, the natural population decline amounted to 421,9 thousand people, which is 59% more than in the same period last year. From January to June, 678,1 thousand people were born in Russia, and 1,1 million died.

[Old Horseradish]

Quote: dorz

Russia is shrinking by 1 million people a year, at such a rate the Chinese will create miracle cities in the near future and ...

Well, maybe not everything is so sad, because we now have a vaccine. For example, Gunzburg tells how it was created, as I understand it, according to the principles of genetic engineering ...

[t-12]

well, maximum - a million can probably be squeezed out

A million from St. Petersburg, 5-6 million from Moscow. And the number will correspond to 1990. On the other hand, since 1990, the industry has also shrunk, a bunch of factories have been converted into shops. So from Moscow and the Moscow region, you can easily withdraw 8-9 million.

In general, are such cities needed - several million each? These are incubators for viruses, targets for nuclear strikes, a paradise for real estate speculators ... Maybe bet on small towns, 50-100 thousand each?

[paul3390]

Maybe bet on small towns, 50-100 thousand each

Given our distances, we will have to invest colossal sums in transport and communications ... Where can I get them? Oligarchs can only be dispossessed ..

[t-12]

invest huge sums in transport and communications ...

High-speed railways. Plus river transport (under Stalin there was a plan for numerous canals). Plus small aircraft (similar to the one in the United States). Plus satellite communications (well, fiber optic).

[Sergej1972]

In the United States, the majority of the population lives in large metropolitan areas and even megalopolises, which occupy a smaller part of the country.

[t-12]

There is no such terrible centralization, when people flock to one city, in the USA.

[Sergej1972]

In Great Britain and France, the concentration of the population in the capital regions is much higher than in Russia. In New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Boston, another two or three largest cities in the United States, in their actual borders and their satellites and their environs, no less share of the US population lives than the share of the population of the Russian Federation living in Moscow, St. Petersburg and the regions around them ... The same can be said for Rio and São Paulo in Brazil. The population of New York State is comparable to that of all of Canada, although its area is more than 40 times smaller.

[lucul]

Given our distances, we will have to invest colossal sums in transport and communications ... Where can I get them? Oligarchs can only be dispossessed ..

It is possible and necessary to develop regional cities, and this population ranges from 300 thousand people to 1 million people. This is perfectly acceptable.

[mmaxx]

And the district ones too. Even if the salary does not grow, the person should see changes for the better.

[your1970]

Quote: paul3390

Maybe bet on small towns, 50-100 thousand each

Given our distances, we will have to invest colossal sums in transport and communications ... Where can I get them? Oligarchs can only be dispossessed ..

The aggregate property and the dough of the oligarchs will not be enough even for half of the Moscow Vladivostok highway ...

[Svarog]

Quote: t-12

Maybe bet on small towns, 50-100 thousand each?

You need to bet on socialism .. where conditions will be created for the growth of demography .. production .. and then cities will start to grow by themselves .. as it was in the USSR.

[lucul]

The stake must be placed on socialism ... where conditions will be created for the growth of demography ...

That’s why demography in the USSR was in full swing, after the pace of tsarist Russia))))

[paul3390]

Nonsense - no need to write? Why did the demography in the USSR not please you, especially in comparison with the current one?

As for RI, it is even easier there. The allotments in the community were divided into eaters, therefore the large family was simply profitable for the peasant. Despite the poverty in which it lived. As soon as communal land ownership was destroyed under Stolypin, adored by the liberals, the birth rate immediately went down. For with a fixed allotment for a family, many children simply cannot be fed. That's the whole secret.

[Vadim237]

Abortions in the RSFSR, which were then 10 times more than now, and also feeding 14 republics in the form of constant subsidies for everything.

[ViacheslavS]

Population growth is a function of many variables and it is not a fact that the standard of living in a country is the most important in it, no matter how much feedback is obtained. In Europe, the local population is also depressed and the growth is due to migrants, especially the canonical example of Sweden and vice versa, the population of Africa, despite hunger and disease, is growing rapidly.
Or you can see how the birth rate changed in South Korea, it fell just as rapidly as the South Caucasus developed rapidly.

[your1970]

Quote: Svarog

for the growth of demographics ..

Before the war and after it was still growing - And by the 70s it began to fall. Life has become better. And when a person lives well, he does not need children as a support in life.
Living examples are Europe, USA, China.
Examples of the opposite - that as soon as it lives badly, it begins to multiply - all of Africa

[sniperino]

Quote: t-12

small towns, 50-100 thousand each

This has already happened in the USSR. Such cities are not just small, but they grow up at the largest enterprise, the development of which becomes the locomotive of the development of the entire city. Despite the fact that Russian monotowns, built back in the USSR, are gradually dying out (their depression began in the USSR), and young people from the same time leave for megacities. If you build, then millionaires, with the opportunity to choose a profession, professional training of young people and a developed sphere of culture. Where to get people? They will come from depressed towns of 50-100 thousand and from megacities: Moscow and St. Petersburg.

[t-12]

"The opportunity to choose a profession" is decided by moving to another city. It is necessary to follow the example of the state people, who calmly change their place of residence.

People leave for megalopolises because the industry has collapsed, there is no work in small towns.

[your1970]

Quote: sniperino

If you build, then millionaires, with

Quote: sniperino

Will come from depressive towns

Finish off small towns?

[sniperino]

Quote: your1970

Finish off small towns?

I wrote about the redistribution of internal migration flows, and not about their strengthening. By the way, the proximity of small towns to millionaires is a factor that reduces their depression.

[Grits]

Quote: t-12

Maybe bet on small towns, 50-100 thousand each?

Or maybe it’s better to bet on preserving the existing ones? Or to preserve the villages, which are emptied every year at an ever increasing speed.

[Sergej1972]

The overflow of the population into megacities, urban agglomerations is a worldwide process that cannot be stopped. And in the PRC, the party and the state even stimulate this process.

[t-12]

"The water of the Kuban River flows where the Bolsheviks command." World processes can and should be controlled. Moreover, with current communication technologies, 90% of office workers can be safely transferred to a remote location, and even factories do not need so many workers (for automation).

[your1970]

Quote: t-12

90% of office workers can be safely transferred to a remote location, yes

Are you going to live in a village 200-300-500 km from the city?

[t-12]

If there is a decent school, an equipped hospital, affordable and fast transport (high-speed train, airfield for small aircraft) and other infrastructure, then I will go.

[your1970]

Quote: t-12

If there is a decent school, an equipped hospital, affordable and fast transport (high-speed train, airfield for small aircraft) and other infrastructure, then I will go.

Then it will be a CITY - not a village ... And not a small one ... A high-speed train to each village is a joke about 20 passengers a week
Means - you will not go

[Vadim237]

So from Moscow and the Moscow region, you can easily withdraw 8-9 million. In Moscow, 13 million live and work. Who are you going to confiscate? If these cities are built technoparks, they will be populated primarily by the local population living on the outskirts or villages of half-corpses - from all regions of Siberia.

[t-12]

In Moscow 13, in MO 5, total 18. Half or a little less can be taken.

[for]

Quote: paul3390

Most of them will leave the hell out of here, no matter what and for any money

But some of them left. I won't tell you who.

[Edward Vashchenko]

Again, there is not much plankton ..

And what industry giants are working in St. Petersburg, which is not in Moscow?
Where is all to work?
Auchan, Magnet and Svobodna Kassa?

[paul3390]

Well - of course not Soviet times, but there is still something left ... Kirovsky and other factories somehow work, then - do not forget the port and everything around it ...

[Edward Vashchenko]

Let me summarize. In St. Petersburg, the main workers are office plankton and sales workers, some of whom work in factories and shipyards ...
The offices of Gazprom were transferred to St. Petersburg, they are not plankton yet ...
The structure is not much different from Moscow, maybe the% of the composition is slightly different, not from other millionaires of Russia: office plankton, trade, a little in universities, and some in enterprises of the real economy

[paul3390]

Such giants of mechanical engineering as the Kirov Plant, the Leningrad Metal Plant, Electrosila, the Plant of Turbine Blades (all three enterprises are part of the Power Machines company), NPO CKTI im. Polzunov, part of OJSC E4 Group, Izhora Plants (Kolpino, OMZ company), Leningrad Electric Machine Building Plant, Nevsky Plant, Compressor, etc.

The ferrous (Izhora pipe plant of the Severstal company) and non-ferrous metallurgy (the Krasny Vyborzhets plant), the chemical, light and printing industries (the Lenpoligrafmash holding) are developed.

Transport engineering is well developed: Vagonmash (produces subway cars), Scania-Piter bus assembly plant. There are automobile factories of foreign companies and enterprises producing auto components. Also military and civil shipbuilding and ship repair.

Also developed are machine tools, instrument making, the production of optics (LOMO), electrical appliances (Leningrad Electromechanical Plant) and electronic equipment, the production of medium and low voltage electrical equipment.

Severnaya Verf, Baltic Shipyard (one of the leading shipyards in Russia), Admiralty Shipyards, Kanonersky Shipyard, Nevsky Shipyard, ALMAZ Shipbuilding Company (formerly Primorsky Shipyard), Kronstadt Marine Plant, Pella Plant.

KB: Rubin, Malachite.


Few?? Of course - not like in Soviet times, but still ..

[Edward Vashchenko]

except for the military, in a truncated form, little works, LOMO was in ruins by the beginning of the XNUMXs.
The bottom line remains the same, St. Petersburg is a city of office plankton and service workers, just like any other city.

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

And in general, I do not consider Moscow to be the capital. Peter, yes. Moscow has turned into a bunch of "zhmerinka" and "kryzhopol". And culture, history - in St. Petersburg.

[bk0010]

Quote: paul3390

And Peter for what?

For being the "second capital"!

[Maki Avellevich]

Quote: t-12

Why forced? Introduce a special "Moscow-Petersburg" tax. And subsidize Siberian cities at the expense of this tax

subsidies will not reach Orosto siberia.
according to Machiavel, it is desirable that the sovereign should live where special attention is required. no other way

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: t-12

Why forced? Introduce a special "Moscow-Petersburg" tax.

Eco you bent. What is the fault of Muscovites and St. Petersburg residents that you decided to impose additional taxes on them. tax?
I think that people will leave (will not leave) Siberia and the Far East only when they have the opportunity to live there normally. And this normality is ensured by the level of salaries. So that a person can fly with his family on vacation to Crimea without causing serious damage to his family budget.
I don’t know how justified is the construction of large new cities (this is what damage to nature), is it not better to develop existing ones, to make them attractive for life. And how many cities, albeit small ones, have been abandoned since the beginning of the construction of capitalism? Maybe it's better to go back there?
Is it necessary to build new cities for scientific development? I know an IT firm that moved from Krasnoyarsk to Thailand only because taxes are much lower there. Maybe it's cheaper to look here?

[t-12]

What is the fault of Muscovites and St. Petersburg residents that you decided to impose additional taxes on them. tax?

Not guilty of anything, but this is the situation. It is necessary to develop Siberia and the Far East; for this you need loot; all the loot in Moscow and St. Petersburg; it means that you need to take the loot from Moscow and St. Petersburg and direct it to the development of the regions.

This is sad and unpleasant (for Muscovites and St. Petersburg residents), but nothing can be done about the problem of the regions.

[Sergej1972]

Many small and medium-sized cities cause much more damage to the environment than a few large cities.

[nnm]

And I remember the initiatives from Rusnano and Skolkovo .... how many billions have we buried there (and someone dug out)? Who will build? His deputy is Timur Ivanov, who built a three-story building even for the servants. Or Rogozin from the old memory of Spetsstroy, which closed billions in the ground? Yes, you are the cities that you already have at least raise, and then build new ones.

[paul3390]

Well, yes, somewhere on the edge of the subconscious, a magic sweet word immediately rang - RASPI-I-I-IL ...

[Grits]

Quote: nnm

Yes, you are the cities that already exist, at least raise, and then new systems

If Shoigu wants a metropolis on the border with China, then why build something from scratch? Look, for example, the city of Blagoveshchensk has long become an outgrowth against the backdrop of the rapidly growing Heihe. Once Heihe was a one-story gloomy town with smoking chimneys - now skyscrapers that Russia never dreamed of. So let it raise Blagoveshchensk at least to the level of Heihe. I don't even fantasize about Harbin.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: paul3390

I have no idea where Kozhugetich is going to take the crowds of new Siberians. There is only one option - to totally clean up Moscow with forced expulsion. There you can go and find 10 million. There is nowhere else to take more people. Well - or populate Asians out of habit ..

The so-called big Moscow is home to about 15 million + region. The Muscovites themselves are 1-2%, the rest are internal migrants, who are practically impossible to force to return to their fly-shoes with shabby entrances, unemployment, poverty and lack of infrastructure. I don't even want to hear rumors about new cities, given the catastrophic demographic situation in the country.
Election campaigns should not be taken seriously.

[paul3390]

If, say, start investing Moscow money in Uryupinski, it may come back .. A small, well-equipped town with good infrastructure and work will be more to their liking than a crazy metropolis ..

There is no use in Moscow anyway, in contrast to the times of the Soviet Union, when it was a really powerful industrial and educational center - now the capital is just eating as if not into itself, without giving anything useful in return. And with this - we urgently need to do something ..

[Sling cutter]

Quote: paul3390

If, say, start investing Moscow money in flyski, it may come back .. A small, well-equipped town with good infrastructure and work will be more to their liking than a crazy metropolis ..

Comrade, but you perfectly understand that nothing of this will happen in modern Russia.

[paul3390]

Sure. In one place, it is much easier to cut the gos.bablo. It's like in the old days - the prince went to the polyudye, stripped the people like a sticky man, took everything to the capital city and there he already shares the loot with the dashing boyars .. And some still do not believe that Putin is building a new feudalism!

But you can dream, if the conversation has started?

[Grits]

I would be grateful to anyone who names the largest factories in Moscow. I really want to compare Moscow's economic potential with other cities in the country that really work and feed the country.

[Vadim237]

In Moscow, there are 36000 manufacturing enterprises of large medium-sized small and micro - and hundreds more KB NII NPO laboratories, etc., so there is no need to carry a blizzard about what. "There is no use from Moscow anyway, now the capital is just eating as if not into itself, giving nothing useful in return"

[Igoresha]

Rumors about new cities, with a catastrophic demographic situation in the country

somewhere in LJ I read that Shoigu's idea, incl. to correct this situation and sharpened, they say, people live in anthills, there is no space, they do not want to give birth to children for this reason, but they will transfer the capital to Siberia - there is a lot of land, build cottages in the American manner and be fruitful

[paul3390]

cottages in the American style

In Siberia, mattress-style cottages made of gypsum plasterboard without heating can hardly be built ...

[Igoresha]

the nuclear power plant next to it and let it warm

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Igoresha

somewhere in LJ I read that Shoigu's idea, incl. to correct this situation and sharpened, they say, people live in anthills, there is no space, they do not want to give birth to children for this reason, but they will transfer the capital to Siberia - there is a lot of land, build cottages in the American manner and be fruitful

His idea was closed. only to bring to mind 70-80% of edra, What prevented him, being in power for 30 years, to pay attention to demography? Or did he not know either? If you didn’t know, then to drive such leaders in the neck, and if you knew, then it’s already .......

[Igoresha]

https://rostislavddd.livejournal.com/445502.html вот эта ЖЖ и все посчитано на калькуляторе

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Igoresha

https://rostislavddd.livejournal.com/445502.html вот эта ЖЖ и все посчитано на калькуляторе

The Murzilka magazine for the 80th year has more useful information than your link.

[Igoresha]

there is no optimism in you)

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Igoresha

there is no optimism in you)

That's what, but I have this good in abundance
Otherwise, I would not have shared the staircase with 8 faces of Asian appearance (strongly reminiscent of Uzbeks) living opposite to a one-room apartment and would not "enjoy" in the evenings the aroma of pilaf made by them on some rare smelly machine oil! I believe in them as a great force that will develop our country and turn it into the greatest of the great!
And without optimism, I would broadcast to you from far abroad, not the Central Federal District.

[Svarog]

Quote: Igoresha

there is no optimism in you)

Yeah .. you look at how you look from the outside .. the population is rapidly declining and impoverished .. people in power are the same .. continue to drink blood ... and you smile and look at the future with optimism ..

[Igoresha]

the authorities are the same

Well, cheb not try Smart voting from bulk if there are no other ways, while billboards were driving from the Crimea, I read election campaigns, nothing at all.

quantity of 8 pieces for a one-room apartment

no matter how they even give birth to children ... it will not seem a little

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Igoresha

no matter how they even give birth to children ... it will not seem a little

They have already begun and will certainly continue, because they do not know how to use condoms, and galoshes and shales are too big and fly off from the mighty Central Asian pressure and temperament, supported by high-calorie waste machine oil.
The day before yesterday I was driving a minibus after 8 pm, there were three of us with a European appearance .... I got out at the next stop, spat in my hearts, calling the minibus in my soul "Shaitan-arba" and walked home with joyful thoughts about the future of Russia.

[Svarog]

Quote: Igoresha

Rumors about new cities, with a catastrophic demographic situation in the country

somewhere in LJ I read that Shoigu's idea, incl. to correct this situation and sharpened, they say, people live in anthills, there is no space, they do not want to give birth to children for this reason, but they will transfer the capital to Siberia - there is a lot of land, build cottages in the American manner and be fruitful

You read less such crap .. well, or turn on the logic .. what would a cottage to build you know how much money you need? And put the kids on their feet? They do not want to give birth because of poverty and a hopeless future .. Give people stability, return moral values, justice and a development plan to society .. and within 20 years, there will be a stable positive dynamics in demography .. and of course socialism .. as you know under capitalism this is not possible ..

[Igoresha]

all my friends have two children, here statistics are needed - married couples / number of children, more than 2, and in the USSR (late) they rarely had

[Svarog]

Quote: Igoresha

all my friends have two children, here statistics are needed - married couples / number of children, more than 2, and in the USSR (late) they rarely had

And in my family my father had two more brothers, my mother also ... In the USSR, just three children were a common thing ... and now there is only one ...

[Igoresha]

in a class of 32 people there were 2 children with many children, these are just three children and they had free meals at school, but I don’t remember any other benefits; paternal - 2 children in the family (urban), my mother has three - a village, 50s years of birth, in the countryside they always gave birth more willingly .............. Exit - gave birth to a third - on your cottage in siberia from the state

[Svarog]

Quote: Igoresha

Exit - gave birth to a third - on your cottage in siberia from the state

I agree with the development of the village and the countryside ..

[Grits]

Quote: Svarog

I agree with the development of the village and the countryside ..

Only even the very last homeless person living in the sewers will never go to the village from a big city. despite the fact that there are a bunch of empty houses and overgrown vegetable gardens

[Svarog]

Quote: Gritsa

Only even the very last bum

A homeless person most likely will not go .. although how to look .. if he became a homeless person due to alcoholism .. then he will not go, and if for other reasons, he can go .. just the state does not pay attention to them at all and you should not draw a conclusion about homeless people. .I knew a man who was a homeless person .. because of the lack of a passport and amnesia as a result of the beating .. he did not remember who, where and from where .. but the man was rugged .. they made him a passport .. and that in a year, a dilapidated house I bought it in the villages .. now I don’t know how he is, but when I heard about him for the last time, he got a family .. So you don’t need to row one size fits all .. there are different situations in life ..
But what would people move to the village ... serious work is required ... from the state.
People will go to the countryside with pleasure .. but you need to motivate, the villages must have all the necessary infrastructure .. employment provided .. salary increased, propaganda .. in general, what is needed .. just for this, the entire economic model needs to be revised, but to do it naturally no one will.

[Grits]

Quote: Svarog

But what would people move to the village ... serious work is required ... from the state.
People will gladly go to the village .. but you need to motivate,

The best option is to completely exempt villagers from taxes and pass these taxes onto Moscow residents. Muscovites will not even notice this. And if they notice, then there will be a reason to think about it - do I live there? ...

[Svarog]

Quote: Gritsa

The best option is to completely exempt villagers from taxes and pass these taxes onto Moscow residents. Muscovites will not even notice this. And if they notice, then there will be a reason to think about it - do I live there?

As an addition .. to motivation ..

[your1970]

And how many are those taxes in the village? 5 thousand a year? Awesome motivation for Muscovites - don't go to Auchan once, yeah ...

[your1970]

Quote: Svarog

People will go to the countryside with pleasure .. but you need to motivate, the villages must have all the necessary infrastructure .. employment provided .. salary increased, propaganda .. in general, what is needed .. just for this, the entire economic model needs to be revised, but to do it naturally no one will.

During the Soviet Union, all of you listed people were driving OF villages - a В the village went according to the distribution (it remained somewhere 50/50)

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Igoresha

Exit - gave birth to a third - on your cottage in siberia from the state

Eka, where did it take you What is such a cottage? all the more free ...
"Nobody forced you to give birth .." - quote.
For now, we can be content with a free satellite injection and a one-time handout of 10 tyrs per child by September 1 (for spiteful critics, the elections do not matter here).
Big cities,
Empty trains
No shore, no bottom -
Start all over again.
Cold war
And time is like water
He is not crazy
You didn't know anything.
In general, no one writes to the colonel ...

[SVD68]

Quote: Igoresha

Exit - gave birth to a third - on your cottage in siberia from the state

Do you propose to introduce a link to the criminal code?

[Sergej1972]

My father had six brothers and sisters, my mother had four brothers and sisters. True, in the case of my mother, a common father, who was married three times. The last two wives are sisters. After the death of his second wife, he married her younger sister. But .... All my aunts and uncles are not large, one or two children, one aunt was childless. I have one child, my sister has two children. Most of the cousins ​​have two children, some have one. There are also childless ones. And one cousin has three children.

[Sergej1972]

I like to live in an apartment, nafig this cottage has surrendered to me.

[Sergej1972]

What are 1-2% of Muscovites? There are no words ... If only they would not be disgraced ...

[Walking towards the light]

Shoigu proposes to build new "Science Cities" such as Arzamas-16. Cities of scientists, workers of factories, which will embody the ideas of scientists into metal, where there will be infrastructure that ensures the normal life of scientists and highly qualified workers, there will be no crime and bohemian parasites. In short, Utopia.

[Lech from Android.]

It is possible to give a new life to the Academgorodok in Novosibirsk ... there were so many institutes there ... I don’t know whether the old personnel have survived.

[knn54]

-Pavel: However - if you move the capital to Siberia,
Crime will immediately rush there, and the inhabitants of the republics of Central Asia are closer.
It is better to tackle the problems of the Russian "Non-Black Earth Region".
ANY state is strong when there are few poor and not many millionaires.
Russia does not need a second Skolkovo.

[paul3390]

Closing borders from migration is generally the first, most important thing.

[Walking towards the light]

This is the Basis ... although we are now being showered with minuses))

[Walking towards the light]

There is another point: there are specialists from the republics of the former USSR who are smart, know their profession perfectly, so they should be cared for and offered work and citizenship of the Russian Federation.

[paul3390]

It is forbidden. According to the Asian mentality - one such valuable specialist in Russia will catch on - in a couple of years here the whole native village will be in full force ..

[Walking towards the light]

I assure you that no .. I had an affair with a Kirghiz surgeon. Smart, great at operating, excellent speaks Russian. He understands Russian humor. Muslim.

[Reklastik]

And what is the age of these mothballed specialists, in your opinion? Will they have energy like 25 years old? If they know their profession to perfection, then they constantly practice in it. This means that they are in demand, which means that where they work, development should take place, new personnel should appear. Then why should they go to Russia from the republics of the former USSR?

[knn54]

Vladimir, this is tantamount to a "border on a castle". Moreover, with the members of the CIS / CSTO. Where to find so many border guards, when Ukraine, Transcaucasia, the Afghan border, and so takes a lot of forces.
And most importantly, they will not allow the authorities to do this: cheap labor, and often without registration.
As for the specialists:
-Dad understood this a long time ago;
-Corruption simply will not allow solving this problem. I myself know a lot of such cases. Moreover, there are situations when there are not enough specialists, but pay anyway.
As a result, illiterate doctors, policemen ...

[Snail N9]

Another stupidity of the authorities is to build anthills on the outskirts, instead of developing the existing ones and building high-speed transport and logistics arteries with full infrastructure to connect remote regions of Russia. So I see - "science cities", in the taiga, where "scientists" work for a salary of 17000 rubles (250 USD), yeah. And on what "shisha" to build? Will the yachts of "effective managers" be sold? Or will they again put their hands in the pockets of ordinary citizens? Will the retirement age and taxes be raised again? For what? Maybe just the "construction of cities" is a cover for the next robbery of the people?
As for the transfer of the capital, but let's appoint the capital in turn for 10 years? One city will be the capital, then another ... The capital is not just a "name", it is a function! What are you, all the institutions that are located in Moscow as in the capital, together with functions, will you move to a new location? And how much will it cost? And won't this transfer of the functioning of the state itself during the transfer? And if you don’t transfer anything, except for the name, as I suggested, call each city "Capital" in turn and calm down.

[Walking towards the light]

"Shishi" is ... you can shake the NWF. But the salaries of scientists are PAIN !!. Sakharov did not need anything. was thinking and inventing)).

[your1970]

Quote: paul3390

Closing borders from migration is generally the first, most important thing.

That is, you are not aware that the bulk IMPORT Gaster left back in 2014 - after the jump in the dollar rate, it became unprofitable for them to work here ...
And those little ones that you come across are ours NATIVE Buryats Tuvans, mountain Shors, Kazakhs and so on

[den3080]

I have no idea where Kozhugetich is going to take the crowds of new Siberians.

I do not understand too.

1. The Chinese bred like rabbits earlier, and they had to limit the birth rate.
And now the population is growing by 4-5 million people a year.
In Russia, the decrease is from year to year.

2. In China, the share of the rural population is 40%, and in Russia, 30%.

3. Programs for the resettlement of compatriots, even from countries of the post-Soviet space, practically do not work. One imitation of seething activity + corruption on migrants.

Where to get people for your initiatives, comrade Shoigu?
Utopia.

[Walking towards the light]

The program of birth for money does not work. Lumpmens and marginal people give birth. The program of resettlement of Russians from neighboring countries does not work. Officials are screwing everything up.

[Sergej1972]

The share of the rural population in the Russian Federation is less than 30%. Now about 25%. It was already in the RSFSR at the end of the 80s was less than 30%.

[Svarog]

Quote: paul3390

Only the question of finance remains - is it going to be a pittance? Really - they decided to finally dispossess the oligarchs

30 years under capitalism .. and all believe in fairy tales? People will be undressed even more .. well, if only they really decided to move the capital to Moscow .. But this is also from the realm of a fairy tale. Imagine how prices on the real estate market in Moscow will collapse .. imagine how it will become empty .. because there is no real production there, salaries will fall, everyone will rush to master "cash flows" .. in general, no one will allow this to be done .. this is just another chatter, from the party of rappers and snatchers ..

[Vadim237]

Imagine how prices on the real estate market in Moscow will collapse ... imagine how it will become empty ... because there is no real production there In your delirium there is no real production, but in reality there is a lot of real production in Moscow and there will be even more, since 2025 more technoparks will be built by 12 one of them, on a part of the territory of the former ZIL, is the development and production of microelectronics. There will not be any massive departure of the population from Moscow, since the large financial center of Russia and the transport transshipment center is the same - even if there is a system in Siberia.

[Doccor18]

Quote: paul3390

is going to take crowds of new Siberians ..

If only in Uzbekistan and Tajikistan, there are no other options yet.

The Chinese press, commenting on Sergei Shoigu's statements, note that the Russian defense minister "intends to create several Russian analogues of Chengdu in Siberia." The Chinese city of Chengdu is considered the urbanization center of modern times. It is a city with a rapidly growing number of inhabitants (today more than 20 million) and an actively developing industry ...

Yeah, this "analogue" can accommodate the entire population of Siberia, the Far East, and maybe there is a place for the Urals ...

Our roads are unimportant, there are not enough hospitals and FAPs, real estate is not available to most young families ... but we will build stadiums and aquariums, new technology parks and interactive museums ...

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: paul3390

However - if you move the capital to Siberia, perhaps the people themselves will reach out. The question is actually long overdue. Only the question of finance remains - is it going to be a pittance? Really - have decided to finally dispossess the oligarchs? Something is hard to believe .. Bourgeois brown eyes will not peck out.

According to the recommendations of the IMF, the size of the NWF of Russia should not exceed 7% of GDP. Everything that will be higher than this indicator is recommended to invest in securities, that is, to stupidly feed the economy of our sworn "friends and partners". Considering that we have reduced investments in securities, and the sanctions-irresponsible US policy towards Russia continues, it can be assumed that what is "higher" can be invested in structural projects of Russia to the "joy" of the IMF and FRS, which in general would be correct and justified. I don’t see any other sources of funding

[Vadim237]

According to the recommendations of the IMF - So you obey them.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Vadim237

According to the recommendations of the IMF - So you obey them.

Have you collapsed from an oak tree, or from a threshold? What good have you found my connection with the IMF? This is not my quirk, but the budgetary rule, which our economic libertine adheres to, which they finally began to tap on the face with an oar and force them to invest free funds not in someone else's securities, but in infrastructure projects in Russia.
Minus return

[Gunther]

Quote: Author

... the Minister of Defense suggested
to create several scientific and technical centers in Siberia - in new cities with a population of 300 thousand to 1 million people. According to the Russian Defense Minister, there may be 3-5 such cities.

I understand - elections, you need to learn something from Zhirikov, but at this level to carry such ... I will say politely - Manilovism is not solid.
although ... if you remember what happens the first person in the state casts in granite, then it seems like the norm, on average in the ward)))

[Petro_tut]

Kozhugetich is going to take crowds of new Siberians ..

The answer is simple - in India, there is a multiyard of the population, they will gladly share a hundred thousand rubles

[Archon]

If there is order in the new city, inexpensive housing, well-built districts, work and other important factors, then people will come. Not from Moscow, but from those cities where the environment is worse, housing is more expensive, wages are lower, roads are worse, unemployment and other negative factors. There are people who still live in barracks with conveniences on the street and it’s good if their homes are not drowned by the next rain - they would be happy to move to a new city. All residents do not have to be gold professionals with three higher levels, ordinary people are also important and needed.

[svp67]

"Intends to create several Russian analogues of Chengdu in Siberia"

It's funny, in the USSR such "Chendou" were created in hundreds ...

[mvg]

such "Chendou" were created by hundreds ...

And each for 20 million? Or is it still 10-15 thousand people, such as a military town? At any enterprise ... Do not confuse a multidisciplinary multimillion city and a small scientific city, narrowly focused.

[svp67]

Quote: mvg

Do not confuse a multidisciplinary multi-million dollar city and a small scientific city, narrowly focused.

Yes, yes ... like Komsomolsk-on-Amur, Magnitogorsk ...

[mvg]

Magnitogorsk

It is an industrial city. I would call Samara or Ekaterinburg scientific. These are natural cities.
And Chendou is an artificial city. There are Chinese and Ukrainians and Russians, and all the creature in pairs. Only I never thought that it would grow to 20 million
One can only envy.

[nnm]

And let them first show how they can create cities for 15 thousand from 0, and then we'll talk about 20 million agglomerations.

[Vadim237]

In Ust Luga, they are already building for 17000 or more.

[nnm]

I agree, there is such a thing ... Can you name 9 more cities in 30 years?

[Sling cutter]

Quote: svp67

It's funny, in the USSR such "Chendou" were created in hundreds ...

The USSR no longer exists, there are no members of the Komsomol either, just as there are no plans for the country's development.

[paul3390]

So maybe - let's start with the main thing, restore the USSR and socialism for the beginning ?? And then you look - and the rest will follow?

[Sling cutter]

Quote: paul3390

So maybe - let's start with the main thing, restore the USSR and socialism for the beginning ?? And then you look - and the rest will follow?

At this stage, this is the only way that can save from a collapse, and it is necessary to start with Russia, which will again become the center of crystallization and unification.
Only for this role will Russia be able to claim only by becoming economically strong with a clear development plan.

[t-12]

to restore the USSR and socialism for the beginning ??

This requires an ideological communist party. Which will not sell itself to the capitalist bourgeoisie, but, on the contrary, will cut money from the bourgeoisie for the cause of communism.

[paul3390]

Right. With this - and we must begin. There are two ways - firstly, the Communist Party is not the only Communist Party, and secondly, you can join the Communist Party and try to overthrow the gopa of opportunists Genosse Zyu. In any case, it's time to start doing something. Otherwise, we will definitely leave the children with idle feudalism.

[Vadim237]

Let's start with the main thing, restore the USSR and socialism for the beginning ?? - Forget this train left long ago.

[Walking towards the light]

Science cities)) As a Scientific town in Novosibirsk or Arzamas-16.

[pyagomail.com]

I don’t know about you, but I don’t mind the capital being moved to or beyond the Urals. Moscow becomes a monster that sucks all the juices out of Russia.

[Cheshire]

The sooner, the better. Only it is necessary to act smarter, to spread the functions of the capital to several places, to be the first in this.

[paul3390]

to spread metropolitan functions in several places

The Novosibirsk-Kemerovo-Krasnoyarsk region is just perfect for this. And the distances by our standards are not very large, and there are a number of large cities ..

[Walking towards the light]

Exactly so. Moscow and St. Petersburg are drawing on all the resources, although there is no reasonable activity there.

[paul3390]

Petersburg draws on all the resources, although there is no reasonable activity there

Come on - have you ever seen, for example, the St. Petersburg port and shipyards? Where do we build a significant part of the ships? And the industry still remains. I'm already silent about the ports around the city - the same Vysotsk ..

[Walking towards the light]

You are a native of Petersburg. I saw it on the site "Made in RF". I love my Motherland. It may be bad, but I love it anyway. I want scientists to live well in my Motherland, inventing and not thinking where to find a piece of meat for lunch, doctors had the latest medicines and mastered the latest operating techniques, teachers taught children how Perelman proved Fermat's theorem. This is my bad dream. In short, I'm a bad idealist .. I've lived 50 years and I want to write about what I wrote.

[paul3390]

In short, do you want to return to socialism, judging by your description?

[URAL72]

We will not be the first. Holland was ahead. So I think we can move the parliament somewhere in Ivanovo or Volgograd. And to make the adversaries afraid, we will rename it back to Stalingrad.

PS. Personally, I would transfer the State Duma to Kiev. Let the order be established there.

[Walking towards the light]

Cool). STALINGRAD is the capital of the Russian Federation. Powerfully)), I looked who in my region goes to the Duma. Notaries, environmentalists. Not a single scientist, worker, teacher. All candidates have a hectare of land and 3 apartments of 100 square meters and that's it. on wives and children is written down.

[nnm]

So do not bear it, Moscow does not draw juices from personal income tax. It is necessary that the companies pay taxes at the location of production, and not at the legal address. But this bill died in the Duma at least three times.

[t-12]

Yes, let them pay taxes anywhere. But the money should go to special targeted programs "assistance to the Siberian regions", "restoration of collapsed cities", etc.

[nnm]

Oh, yes .... we had few programs .... including the development of Siberia and the Far East ... Colleague, the problem is not in the availability and number of programs, but in the fact that these programs are now just an excuse for that would communicate several tens of billions.

[t-12]

Well, in Crimea, a road with a bridge was built, so we know how to build. Only it is necessary to build not in one "exemplary" region, but throughout the country, en masse, as the Chinese do.

[nnm]

Oh, I remember ... 3 times more expensive than a similar bridge in China, and at the same time Rottenberg lamented that he almost built himself at a loss ..

[t-12]

What is a similar bridge in China?

[nnm]

For example, Danyang-Kunshan! Did that tell you a lot? And it cost 3 times cheaper.
And then I can't remember the local Rottenberg crying that he was building almost a loss for himself.
Dear colleague, do not try to catch me on love for the Motherland. It's just that for me the Motherland and those in power are very different concepts.

[t-12]

There is a ground viaduct, and not a bridge across the strait with a tectonic fault, silt and possible ice drift. And not one bridge, but two (road and rail).

[Grits]

Quote: t-12

What is a similar bridge in China?

You should not consider the Crimean Bridge as some kind of super great structure. In China, such bridges are built every year. And in terms of scale, many of them are such that the Crimean dwarf seems to be.

[aybolyt678]

Quote: t-12

Well, in Crimea, a road with a bridge was built, so we know how to build. Only it is necessary to build not in one "exemplary" region, but throughout the country, en masse, as the Chinese do.

but the Chinese, in an exemplary manner, shoot someone in stadiums

[Grits]

Quote: t-12

Yes, let them pay taxes anywhere.

But no. The tax must be paid at the place of work of the enterprise. Only then will local budgets have something. Who are now beggars and barely patching holes. At a time when all taxes go to cities where businesses are legally registered

[Sergej1972]

Very often, our company is located in one municipality, and most of the employees come to work from a neighboring municipality or even a region. And the municipality where they live and spend the night, it turns out, will receive nothing?

[paul3390]

It is necessary that companies pay taxes at the location of production

Then - in our reality, they will be pushed right on the ground ... In the center - money can be somehow controlled ... And in dozens of places - but for no reason.

[nnm]

No, the colleague "in the center" is controlled only by the fact that the money would be distributed to the right pockets. The result is exactly the same. But you're right, rearranging beds in today's brothel doesn't make any sense.

[Walking towards the light]

Redistribution of money among parasites. There is no ideology for the development of the State. There are no goals. We live for one day.

[Snail N9]

Generally, the "offers" have been diminished. Do you remember how it began? Remember not even "statements", but almost "software" "promises" of the times of "fat years"? I mean: "Doubling-tripling GDP (GDP is just a pun, sic .. ), 25 million highly paid, high-tech jobs, an average salary of at least $ 2700, apartments of at least 100 square meters for a family of three, pensions of at least 45% of the salary, a reduction in the working week, the share of each citizen in the extraction of resources and other nishtyaks "? Remember. And now they propose to build only 3-5 cities in the outback and move the capital there, not even realizing that none of the population sees a profit for themselves. Yes, the" proposals "have been shrunken ...

[your1970]

Quote: nnm

It is necessary that the companies pay taxes at the location of production, and not at the legal address.

That is, for Gazprom to pay taxes in the North in a city of 5000 people?

[Vadim237]

What kind of juices Moscow sucks from all of Russia - if you mean money, then from all of Russia they are sucked in the form of taxes by the state budget and it has nothing to do with Moscow, well, apart from the same taxes, Moscow pays them the same to the state budget.

[Asad]

First, build an enterprise where people will work. There is nothing new in Novosibirsk. Tyazhstankogidropress has suffered, as did Sibselmash and Chkalovsky, optimized, Shvabe is working. In short, it became a city of traders!

[Hagakure]

If the city ... we become a nation of traders ... And on the topic - in the existing Siberian cities, order would be restored. Himself a native Siberian.

[U-58]

Perm, Omsk, Tomsk, Irkutsk. How many enterprises, including defense ones, have been ruined, closed and already forgotten!
Yes, in China, people are arriving thickly, in contrast to Russia.
And those with a population are eager to go to Moscow, St. Petersburg, Samara, Krasnodar. But not to Krasnoyarsk or Komsomolsk-on-Amur.
So what are the new cities for the clown ????
Let's remember the cities "forgotten" from the Soviet times and fill them with modern content!
Let's build a cheap targeted housing for young people, scientists and workers, a subway with a population of over one million. Pools and stadiums. Kindergartens and theaters. Country clubs and hospitals. Roads.
And the people will change the idea of ​​the futility of their territories, stop moving closer to the "capitals" and live a full-fledged interesting life in their homeland.

[Essex62]

The key, in your thesis, contrary to the reality of wild Russian capitalism, is "targeted cheap housing" and further down the list.
Pre-election PR, pure water. Moreover, this idea was thrown up by someone not very smart, wearing two sets of pink glasses. It looks like Kozhugedych did not deliberately fall for it and blurted out.

[t-12]

Housing alone is not enough, more jobs are needed. Those. it is necessary to restore the collapsed industry.

But the Russian elite, apparently, does not need this. The elite rejoices at the pipe to Germany, they are satisfied with the oil and gas loot.

[Walking towards the light]

There are no young scientists. There are Dani Milokhins. Daniil Kazantsev from Yekaterinburg won a grant from Google for training in the amount of 15 thousand dollars. He came up with a device that helps deaf and hard of hearing people express their thoughts ... who knows about him. By the way, he received a small Nobel Prize

[Sergej1972]

But, for example, the migration of the population from Yekaterinburg to both capitals is small. So, something keeps people in Yekaterinburg?

[Vadim237]

How many enterprises, including defense ones, have been ruined, closed and already forgotten! The army has been reduced by three, the arms race is no longer there, the costs of the military-industrial complex have been reduced six times since 91, and all the rest in the country were closed due to the lack of orders, they did not pull competition on the open market, so they continue to close by inertia.

[tralflot1832]

How to lose money under Stolypin, and the people will go! You can start 2017 already gone through, I hope there will be no more revolutions!

[Asad]

For how much money will you change Sochi for, say, Neryungri?

[tralflot1832]

Why Nurengri, Okunevo is enough for me, I am a pensioner, but I have to work there. Lyamov 10, agreed when he was young.

[mvg]

We have already gone through 2017, I hope there will be no more revolutions!

And you, my friend, are an optimist! 1991, 1998, 2008, 2014, 2017 and these are not all dates. They don't tell you anything, except for the regularity?
I put my left hand on the clipping that soon it will be possible to draw a new date.

[tralflot1832]

It will be unambiguous when Putin hands over the case to the receiver! 1998 with dollars, nothing like that for a year.

[U-58]

Well, I do not. In no case. There is no "successor" or successor.
We need a leader with radically different attitudes towards the development of society.
And if they adopt the existing course (and this is what they are doing), then nothing new or positive will come from the word at all.

[Vadim237]

Get ready for the new president in 2024, Mikhail Mishustin will most likely become.

[your1970]

Quote: U-58

We need a leader with radically different attitudes towards the development of society

"Whites will come to rob, Red will come to rob .. Where can the peasant go?" (WITH)

[Cat]

By the way, there were already military settlements under Arakcheev. It is straining that the Minister of Defense is taking such an initiative. It's good that the leadership of the Federal Penitentiary Service is keeping quiet for now

[Gunther]

Quote: Gato

Good that
FSIN leadership is keeping quiet

no, does not keep quiet, the leadership of the Federal Penitentiary Service, with a blue eye, proposes to revive the GULAG:
"According to the director of the Federal Penitentiary Service
Russia Alexander Kalashnikov, prisoners will be able
replace guest workers, the deficit of which is
every year it is felt more and more.
It is assumed that for their work convicts
get decent pay, but
human rights defenders fear that the creation
forced labor camps will
a return to forced labor practices .... "
and before that, they spent a long time procrastinating on the topic of private prisons in the image and likeness of those in Yankel.

[Cat]

According to the director of the Federal Penitentiary Service
Russia Alexander Kalashnikov, prisoners will be able
replace guest workers

And happily rubs her palms in anticipation ... Zeks as Moscow janitors It's time to draw a business plan

[ViacheslavS]

And as soon as the money runs out, a massive return migration will begin. Development for the sake of development is not the most effective way, Americans are not trying to build cities of over one million in Alaska and are not worried that less than a million people live there.
The fact that Siberia is sparsely populated has very real reasons, above all climatic.

[Sergej1972]

Well, the Trans-Urals, Western and Southern Siberia are much more densely populated compared to Eastern Siberia and the Far East. And the outflow of the population there is much smaller. And the population of the Tyumen region and its autonomous regions is growing steadily.

[Vadim237]

To declare a tax amnesty for these new scientific and industrial cities - for 10 years I am sure there will be no end to those wishing to settle there and develop production.

[ViacheslavS]

An acquaintance of mine went to work Schlumberger after the institute, worked as a field engineer and his salary was just crazy even at the present time, it reached 600 thousand rubles a month, but after working for about eight years, he left, because despite the huge money, the climate in the North, he could not change and it was hard in terms of health both for him and for his family.

[ViacheslavS]

Of course, both Siberia and the Far East have some potential, my thought was that it is not worth doing development for the sake of development. If there is money for the construction of new cities of million people, then in my opinion it is wiser to spend it on improving the infrastructure of the existing ones. The same Novosibirsk is suffocating from dust and traffic jams.

[From Tomsk]

Happy new settlers should be delivered to these cities only by landing. And surround the perimeter with a water barrier and barbed wire in 10 rows.
So that the new settlers overwhelmed with happiness could not dump into the sunset immediately, 15 minutes after disembarkation

[t-12]

Alternative option: infrastructure (schools-hospitals are not worse than in Moscow) and cheap housing. And no one will dump anywhere. Take the money for all this from Moscow.

[Konnick]

I recalled a joke

The cadet graduates from college with honors. The management of the school proposes to stay in the school, to which the cadet replies -
No. I will serve where I am needed. The head of the school took offense and sent him to the farthest garrison.
Upon arrival, the newly made lieutenant goes to the chief of the garrison, and he, looking at his diploma with honors, invites him to serve in the headquarters of the garrison. To which the lieutenant says again -
No. I will serve where I am needed.

The head of the garrison shows him to the helicopter and says -
Well fly ...
Hour fly, the second, on the third, the helicopter pilot stops the car in the air and says - Jump.
Lieutenant - I'll crash.
Okay - says the helicopter pilot.
I'll go down below.
He descends to 50 meters and says to the lieutenant -
Everything. I can't go below.
Lieutenant - Why ???
Pilot - They'll start jumping back ...

[BISMARCK94]

Head of the list of the United Russia party in the elections to the State Duma of the Russian Federation,

It explains everything)
Have the existing cities exhausted their potential? Or are they overpopulated? Or attendants to get out?

[Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov]

***
“In four
      year
here
   will
    garden city! "...
***

[Blue fox]

How tired already this approach of the government of parades and pouting cheeks.

[kig]

I suspect that the Chinese are writing about the center of technology, but in their minds they have something completely different: their deserted, uninhabited cities like Xishuan. With one difference: they built their ghosts themselves, for some purpose known only to them, but here they will remain unfilled because ... well, there is simply no one.

[Svarog]

Sohu notes that Russia itself is reacting with a fair amount of skepticism to the RF proposal. So, as an example, comments are given, which indicate that the initiative of the Minister of Defense is a pre-election move, and that it is possible to focus on the intensive development of those cities that already exist in Siberia and that need investment.

.
Naturally, the pre-election move .. for eating Russia, just not smart will vote .. yes, in fact, they are not particularly interested in voting, everything is prepared for the desired result .. it will be sad to look at the results of this vote ..

[vovochkarzhevsky]

Interestingly, and Kozhugetich knows what about this?

https://www.myui.ru/_ph/3/971803521.jpg

https://ilim24.ru/gallery/aeroport/Ust-Ilimskiy_aeroport_044.jpg

[Alexey Koshkarov]

There is enough money to build cities in rich Russia. But these cities will most likely be populated by the Chinese.

[Walking towards the light]

Lumpmen will settle in. There is no selection .. Alkash and drug addicts with 5-6 children in anamnesis. They will pull money from the state for their children with a bunch of diseases. "Help us with an incurable disease" throw cons.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Walking towards the light

Lumpmen will populate

Read at your leisure "... Let the provincial marginals - intellectuals save Baikal ..."

Interesting reading material for understanding the situation.

[Walking towards the light]

Read at your leisure a program in Germany in the 70-80s to stimulate the birth rate through money. In 2000, Russian Germans were assimilated with any diseases. Curves, oblique, clubfoot, imbecile)), I saw it. These curves, oblique feeble-minded, are better than now arabs

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Walking towards the light

Read at your leisure a program in Germany in the 70-80s to stimulate the birth rate through money.

In that article, which I suggested to you for reading, it says about the "Plan for the utilization of Russia", it concerns each of us, and the Ferega is far from me)

[Vadim237]

They will not settle because the Chinese live where it is warm. There are only a few tens of thousands of them now for permanent residence in Russia.

[Alexey Koshkarov]

Vadim - you've been to Vladivostok at least once. Chyna town

[Maks1995]

Are you seriously discussing everything?
The elections will take place, and the aggravation will end ...

[iouris]

Russian soldiers in the required number will no longer give birth, they will not be able to. Perhaps there is irrefutable evidence that Holland, Belgium, Britain and other "decent" countries will soon be flooded? Then the population will have to be resettled to a country that is not a pity.

[Walking towards the light]

Unfortunately. Therefore, the topic of the UAV, "Armata" with the maximum protection of the crew, "Warrior" - the maximum protection of the infantryman. Su-57 with the UAV "Predator".

[Vadim Zhivov]

Well, then there are 6 SU-57s for the elections a couple of corvettes and it is imperative to raise Kuznetsov in a row and raise the dock ... And all at once rush to the elections ...

[Marachuh]

All this is good, but! Nobody will go anywhere if there is no: 1) roads 2) work. The rest is all demagoguery!

[Wolf]

Everything new good forgotten old. When Stalin made the closure of the city, he settled the scholars and the scientific center there, and there is no sense for the safety of the industrial secrets, but that would save the lives of the scholars.
It should be seen in the 90s, when outstanding scientists died by the very countries in different ways in Russia (especially by cold fusion)
The city of typa has become very quiet today, and it is precisely what would preserve the colors of the science of Russia, and where it must be determined.
But they must be environmentally friendly and human for the life of the ludi.

[Wolf]

And how to attract people to settle there, WE WILL JUST THROUGH BENEFITS, WAGE AND CONDITIONS OF LIFE !!!

[Zx_spectrum]

at least first to repair what is, half-abandoned cities, to help repair schools, hospitals, roads, post offices, etc.

[Wolf]

Balance is needed here, but without light it is impossible to go out in the evening, you need light, and this is teach to close the cities and, if possible, and balance, repair of hospitals, schools, kindergartens, expensive, etc. It takes a lot, but here the balance is important.

[Zx_spectrum]

these cities will be only for the vaccinated, with a quar code, with a Russian smartphone, and access to the Internet only with a special Personal Code.

[Nikolaevich I]

I will not "invent" anything new! I am placing a copy of my comment from a certain site!
It was smooth on paper; but in reality - hillocks and ravines!

Where will this "newly hatched statesman" get the "population" for "his" cities? Even at the present time, the Ministry of Labor is “yelling good obscenities” that there is not enough “labor resources” and insists on increasing quotas for migrants! So who will live and work in the "Shoigu cities"? Who will stay to live and work in central Russia? The same "Turks"? What will (is turning ...) Russia? And there is no need to award Shoigu the title of "Honored Inventor and Rationalizer of the Russian Federation"! Back in the days of the USSR, a similar project was "voiced by the top"! But the project quickly "pissed off"! then where does Shoigu rock the boat, where does the current ruling regime rock the boat? Someday this ruling regime will be engaged in real pressing matters, and not projecting?

[your1970]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

Back in the days of the USSR, a similar project was "voiced by the top"! But the project quickly went wrong!

Yeah .... The origin of the word "limit" remind me, please ...

[Evgeny Ostrovsky_2]

It is high time for the capital of Russia to be removed to Samara.

[Vadim237]

No one will clean it up anywhere Moscow will remain Moscow - too much money is needed for this useless business.

[Adimius38]

As they say, dreaming is not harmful. They cannot even make normal toilets for children in schools literally a few kilometers from the center, and then build cities ... It's not a wave of a stick and not three tents in the Arctic to put up figuratively speaking. They can succeed only in one case - if the city will be built by the Chinese and the inhabitants of this city will be Chinese.

[petrol cutter]

Give me a decent housing / normal salary (suitable for working conditions) and I will go anywhere.
Nobody will go anywhere for the minimum wage.
Where to get money ?! That's why your ministers are sitting / getting paid.
Here are the cards in their hands.
I wanted capitalism, get a village tractor.

[1536]

So let him organize "military settlements", following the example of the military settlements that were in the Russian Empire in the 1957th century. True, this idea ultimately turned out to be unprofitable and failed, and the military settlements were abolished in XNUMX (exactly after the Crimean War and the accession to the throne of Alexander II), but, probably, they played some positive role in the history of Russia, showing though it would be, how not to do this or that business.

[Andrey Mansurov]

Only an opinion. These cities will be built by the Chinese, and for the Chinese. For someone else? There is no one to inhabit these cities. Creeping expansion. And someone will make good money on this. They may finally choke.

[Alien ...]

The Russian land will not become scarce with dumbbells ... Another question, why should a kitten rescuer voice this one? Well, they drank themselves in parks and almshouses ... Itches - go ahead, to all MO, in Ulan-Ude. Or Chita. What problems?

[YURI N.]

They went to BAM not "for the smell of the taiga," but for a long ruble!
There will be salaries in these cities like in Moscow and St. Petersburg, people will go.
And if there is "no money, but you hold on" ......
Well .... not destiny means.

[tame]

Maybe there is no need to build five cities? Enough one or two high-tech, ultra-modern cities, in which the logistics, financial and administrative centers and structures will be concentrated. In my opinion, this is enough and will cost less. Because science and technology cities actually already exist. These are Tomsk, Krasnoyarsk, Omsk, Novosibirsk, Irkutsk. It is only necessary to bring these cities to the appropriate form, which would fully correspond to the set state plans.

[Valery Ivanov_3]

Kuzhegetich was dreaming. Or Chubais whispered in his ear.

[Valery Ivanov_3]

I wonder what these cities will be and who will go there?